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Gottlieb System 1 (Genie) Transistors
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tcvid...@yahoo.ca
Jan 15, 2012, 4:16:31 PM1/15/12
to tcvid...@yahoo.ca
Im just setting up a Genie and some lights are stuck on like all the X
bonus lights,the special,the C and D dont unlight after rolled over.So
it's a transistor(s) in the driver board.What transistors will I need?
Does it use the same as Bally? (2N5060)
Thanks in advance,
Todd
bonus lights,the special,the C and D dont unlight after rolled over.So
it's a transistor(s) in the driver board.What transistors will I need?
Does it use the same as Bally? (2N5060)
Thanks in advance,
Todd
Steve Kulpa
Jan 15, 2012, 10:30:56 PM1/15/12
to
3x Bonus = Q22
4x Bonus = Q29
5x Bonus = Q19
Bottom "C" Rollover = Q8
Bottom "D" Rollover = Q7
Top "C" Rollover = Q13
Top "D" Rollover = Q14
Special = Q17
These are all MPS-A13 transistors, readily available from all the
usual electronics vendors. The 2N5060 used on the Bally lamp driver
is an SCR.
Be sure to also check the "S" shaped harness connecting the MPU board
to the Driver Board, especially if it looks like an original. Often
the pins get tarnished or corroded and will cause coil and/or lamp
issues, especially on the MPU side since the battery sits directly
above the harness connector. If the pins inside the housings are not
nice and shiny, either re-pin the harness, or get a replacement.
Check the plated tabs on the boards too.
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
Nolensville, TN
http://stevekulpa.net/pinball/pinball.htm - Pinball
http://stevekulpa.net/faces/rgpidx.htm - Faces
http://stevekulpa.net/pinrepair/pinrepair.htm - Repair
tcvid...@yahoo.ca
Jan 18, 2012, 2:42:04 PM1/18/12
to
Wow what a great wealth of information.You answered all my questions
including the ones I hadn't even asked yet.Good job and thank you very
much for the great help!
Todd
tcvid...@yahoo.ca
Feb 21, 2012, 10:04:15 AM2/21/12
to
On Jan 15, 10:30 pm, Steve Kulpa <stevekulpa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Im just setting up aGenieand some lights are stuck on like all the X
> Nolensville, TNhttp://stevekulpa.net/pinball/pinball.htm - Pinballhttp://stevekulpa.net/faces/rgpidx.htm - Faceshttp://stevekulpa.net/pinrepair/pinrepair.htm- Repair
I ordered and replaced the correct transistors and the special,4x
bonus,5x bonus and collect bonus when lit lights are all still stuck
on.I then swapped the light driver board with one from my Countdown
and the same lights stayed lit.Then I checked the S harness by
swapping it with the one from Countdown and the lights are still
on.Although they are on,they dont score as if they are on.Meaning if I
hit the lit special,I dont get a free game.But if I do achieve a lit
special it does give me the free game and knock.The same with the 4
and 5 times bonus,they stay lit but dont score as such unless really
achieved.So technically the game plays perfectly,but it would be
better to get these stuck lights turned off.Anyone have any other
ideas of why these lights are locked on?
Thanks,
Todd
homebrood
Feb 21, 2012, 10:12:57 AM2/21/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Or somehthing in line with those lamps shorted to GI string maybe?
Do you have the original MPU? Do you have another working MPU to try
in there? Maybe a chip on the MPU wonked out...
Tom
Rompen
Feb 21, 2012, 11:31:48 AM2/21/12
to
Have you re-pinned most of the connectors? On Sys1's that's almost a
prerequisite before doing anything else. Those connectors did not
stand the test of time well and are often the cause of very weird
issues. If you're pulling transistors and replacing them, check to
make sure they are bad.
prerequisite before doing anything else. Those connectors did not
stand the test of time well and are often the cause of very weird
issues. If you're pulling transistors and replacing them, check to
make sure they are bad.
tcvid...@yahoo.ca
Feb 21, 2012, 10:59:36 PM2/21/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Tom. Thats a good thought.I will check along that line for a
> - Show quoted text -
short.Im not sure if it has the origional MPU in it.I just bought it
from a friend who bought it at an auction.Im unable to test another
MPU in it as the bottom two plugs on the MPU are missing their plugs
and all the wires are soldered in place.They look very secure.I
certainly would have done a swap of the MPU after the driver board
swap turned up nothing.
Rompen. No I havent repinned any connectors nor do I have any clue how
to do that.I am a newbee.Is it a big undertaking? Are there any
directions on doing repinning on the internet?
Thanks, Todd
Chris Hibler
Feb 22, 2012, 12:04:04 AM2/22/12
to
All of those lamps are driven from the same 74175 on the driver board.
Since you've tried two different driver boards, I'd suspect the device
select signal for that chip (DS5) isn't getting through. It comes
through on pin 13 of J1 on the driver board. With the game off, use a
DMM to "buzz" the signal from Z5, pin 9 on the driver board to Z24,
pin 14 on the original CPU. Z24 is a 7404 hex inverter.
If the buzz proves the signal can make it from the CPU to the driver
board, then you'll need to look further upstream, and that's a lesson
for another day.
If you do have an original MPU, check for alkaline damage from a leaky
battery. Z24 is in the alkaline corrosion zone along with the traces
that supply the DS5 signal.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info
tcvid...@yahoo.ca
Feb 22, 2012, 3:32:32 PM2/22/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Chris,
> - Show quoted text -
Thank you for that detailed information.Im not sure I know how to
locate the points to DMM.I did find two rectangular chips on the CPU
near the middle to the right a bit that both are 7404 but none say Z24
on them.They have 7 legs on either side.So would it be the first chip
labelled 7404 and the bottom right leg?
And on the driver board there are none labelled Z but im thinking it
may be one of those 9 rectangular chips along the top? Perhaps the 5th
one? Those have 8 legs per side so perhaps pin 9 is the top right leg?
I also located the pin 13 of J1 and found it to be a purple wire.It
looks snug to me.
I will await the results of my guess work.
Thanks,
Todd
Chris Hibler
Feb 22, 2012, 4:36:41 PM2/22/12
to
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi Chris,
> Thank you for that detailed information.Im not sure I know how to
> locate the points to DMM.I did find two rectangular chips on the CPU
> near the middle to the right a bit that both are 7404 but none say Z24
> on them.They have 7 legs on either side.So would it be the first chip
> labelled 7404 and the bottom right leg?
> And on the driver board there are none labelled Z but im thinking it
> may be one of those 9 rectangular chips along the top? Perhaps the 5th
> one? Those have 8 legs per side so perhaps pin 9 is the top right leg?
> I also located the pin 13 of J1 and found it to be a purple wire.It
> looks snug to me.
> I will await the results of my guess work.
> Thanks,
> Todd
Hi Todd,
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi Chris,
> Thank you for that detailed information.Im not sure I know how to
> locate the points to DMM.I did find two rectangular chips on the CPU
> near the middle to the right a bit that both are 7404 but none say Z24
> on them.They have 7 legs on either side.So would it be the first chip
> labelled 7404 and the bottom right leg?
> And on the driver board there are none labelled Z but im thinking it
> may be one of those 9 rectangular chips along the top? Perhaps the 5th
> one? Those have 8 legs per side so perhaps pin 9 is the top right leg?
> I also located the pin 13 of J1 and found it to be a purple wire.It
> looks snug to me.
> I will await the results of my guess work.
> Thanks,
> Todd
Here are the diagrams to help answer your questions...
Driver Board - http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1#Driver_Board
CPU - http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/cpu1.gif
Dual-Inline-Package leg numbering can be found here:
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#DIP_.28Dual_In-line_Package.29_Pin_Numbering_Convention
Yes, 7404s are 14 pin rectangular chips
The 74175 will have 16 pins.
The hook is baited...let's see you cast the line... :-)
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info
tcvid...@yahoo.ca
Feb 22, 2012, 8:48:18 PM2/22/12
to
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Hi Chris,
> > Thank you for that detailed information.Im not sure I know how to
> > locate the points to DMM.I did find two rectangular chips on the CPU
> > near the middle to the right a bit that both are 7404 but none say Z24
> > on them.They have 7 legs on either side.So would it be the first chip
> > labelled 7404 and the bottom right leg?
> > And on the driver board there are none labelled Z but im thinking it
> > may be one of those 9 rectangular chips along the top? Perhaps the 5th
> > one? Those have 8 legs per side so perhaps pin 9 is the top right leg?
> > I also located the pin 13 of J1 and found it to be a purple wire.It
> > looks snug to me.
> > I will await the results of my guess work.
> > Thanks,
> > Todd
>
> Hi Todd,
>
> Here are the diagrams to help answer your questions...
> Driver Board -http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1#Driver_...
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Hi Chris,
> > Thank you for that detailed information.Im not sure I know how to
> > locate the points to DMM.I did find two rectangular chips on the CPU
> > near the middle to the right a bit that both are 7404 but none say Z24
> > on them.They have 7 legs on either side.So would it be the first chip
> > labelled 7404 and the bottom right leg?
> > And on the driver board there are none labelled Z but im thinking it
> > may be one of those 9 rectangular chips along the top? Perhaps the 5th
> > one? Those have 8 legs per side so perhaps pin 9 is the top right leg?
> > I also located the pin 13 of J1 and found it to be a purple wire.It
> > looks snug to me.
> > I will await the results of my guess work.
> > Thanks,
> > Todd
>
> Hi Todd,
>
> Here are the diagrams to help answer your questions...
> CPU -http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/cpu1.gif
>
> Dual-Inline-Package leg numbering can be found here:http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#DIP_.28Dual_In-li...
>
> Yes, 7404s are 14 pin rectangular chips
> The 74175 will have 16 pins.
>
> The hook is baited...let's see you cast the line... :-)
> --
> Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31http://www.Team-EM.comhttp://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htmhttp://www.PinWiki.com- The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info- Hide quoted text -
> Yes, 7404s are 14 pin rectangular chips
> The 74175 will have 16 pins.
>
> The hook is baited...let's see you cast the line... :-)
> --
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Chris,
Thanks for all the links.What a greatsite! I couldnt stop reading.I
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Chris,
learned a lot.Like turning the machine off to replace bulbs.Yesterday
I did some bulb swaps and dropped and adjusted a star rollover switch
with the power on and the end result was two blown fuses.One was the
primary fuse,so the game wouldnt boot up at all.The second was the 1/4
amp fuse that powers the displays.I replaced the primary fuse and it
boots up and plays fine but I didnt have a 1/4 amp fuse so I ''gulp''
put in a 1/2 fuse and it blew it.So until I get more 1/4 amp fuses,I
wont know if ive created a short or not.If it is a short my guess
would be the #3 bulb at the top as I had to bend it back to swap it
and in turning the bulb the whole socket turned round and round.The
bulb ended up being ok and just loose.Where can I buy those breaker
things so I dont have to keep killing fuses if it is a short? Ok so
back to the task at hand.I was right in my guess that Z5 was the fifth
chip from the left on the driver board but was wrong with my numbering
guess.It starts at the dot and works clockwise.So the end result had
me trying to buzz the bottom right leg on the chip on Z5 on the driver
board with the top right leg of the first 7404 chip.I did not get any
buzz with several attempts at this.So your correct that the signal is
not getting through.My guess now is that the 13th connector pin is
bad? I read that these are common culprits and should be fixed or
replaced but I havent found instructions on how to do it yet.How did I
do with my exploration?
Todd
Chris Hibler
Feb 22, 2012, 11:07:18 PM2/22/12
to
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Hi Chris,
> > > Thank you for that detailed information.Im not sure I know how to
> > > locate the points to DMM.I did find two rectangular chips on the CPU
> > > near the middle to the right a bit that both are 7404 but none say Z24
> > > on them.They have 7 legs on either side.So would it be the first chip
> > > labelled 7404 and the bottom right leg?
> > > And on the driver board there are none labelled Z but im thinking it
> > > may be one of those 9 rectangular chips along the top? Perhaps the 5th
> > > one? Those have 8 legs per side so perhaps pin 9 is the top right leg?
> > > I also located the pin 13 of J1 and found it to be a purple wire.It
> > > looks snug to me.
> > > I will await the results of my guess work.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Todd
>
> > Hi Todd,
>
> > Here are the diagrams to help answer your questions...
> > Driver Board -http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1#Driver_...
> > CPU -http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/cpu1.gif
>
> > Dual-Inline-Package leg numbering can be found here:http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#DIP_.28Dual_In-li...
>
> > Yes, 7404s are 14 pin rectangular chips
> > The 74175 will have 16 pins.
>
> > The hook is baited...let's see you cast the line... :-)
> > --
> > Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31http://www.Team-EM.comhttp://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/ind...The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info- Hide quoted text -
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Hi Chris,
> > > Thank you for that detailed information.Im not sure I know how to
> > > locate the points to DMM.I did find two rectangular chips on the CPU
> > > near the middle to the right a bit that both are 7404 but none say Z24
> > > on them.They have 7 legs on either side.So would it be the first chip
> > > labelled 7404 and the bottom right leg?
> > > And on the driver board there are none labelled Z but im thinking it
> > > may be one of those 9 rectangular chips along the top? Perhaps the 5th
> > > one? Those have 8 legs per side so perhaps pin 9 is the top right leg?
> > > I also located the pin 13 of J1 and found it to be a purple wire.It
> > > looks snug to me.
> > > I will await the results of my guess work.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Todd
>
> > Hi Todd,
>
> > Here are the diagrams to help answer your questions...
> > Driver Board -http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1#Driver_...
> > CPU -http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/cpu1.gif
>
> > Dual-Inline-Package leg numbering can be found here:http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#DIP_.28Dual_In-li...
>
> > Yes, 7404s are 14 pin rectangular chips
> > The 74175 will have 16 pins.
>
> > The hook is baited...let's see you cast the line... :-)
> > --
You are going to need to figure out where you are losing the signal.
Use your DMM. Start at the leg we discussed on the MPU. Buzz to the
card edge connector.
Got buzz?
If not...you have a failed trace.
If so...move down to the driver boards's card edge connector.
Repeat until you find the failure in the circuit. Then, set the hook
with a quick movement, and reel that lunker into the boat! I like
fishing.... :-)
--
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info
tcvid...@yahoo.ca
Feb 23, 2012, 12:58:57 AM2/23/12
to
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > Hi Chris,
> > > > Thank you for that detailed information.Im not sure I know how to
> > > > locate the points to DMM.I did find two rectangular chips on the CPU
> > > > near the middle to the right a bit that both are 7404 but none say Z24
> > > > on them.They have 7 legs on either side.So would it be the first chip
> > > > labelled 7404 and the bottom right leg?
> > > > And on the driver board there are none labelled Z but im thinking it
> > > > may be one of those 9 rectangular chips along the top? Perhaps the 5th
> > > > one? Those have 8 legs per side so perhaps pin 9 is the top right leg?
> > > > I also located the pin 13 of J1 and found it to be a purple wire.It
> > > > looks snug to me.
> > > > I will await the results of my guess work.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Todd
>
> > > Hi Todd,
>
> > > Here are the diagrams to help answer your questions...
> > > Driver Board -http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1#Driver_...
> > > CPU -http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/cpu1.gif
>
> > > Dual-Inline-Package leg numbering can be found here:http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#DIP_.28Dual_In-li...
>
> > > Yes, 7404s are 14 pin rectangular chips
> > > The 74175 will have 16 pins.
>
> > > The hook is baited...let's see you cast the line... :-)
> > > --
> > > Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31http://www.Team-EM.comhttp://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/ind...Place to go for Pinball Repair Info- Hide quoted text -
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > Hi Chris,
> > > > Thank you for that detailed information.Im not sure I know how to
> > > > locate the points to DMM.I did find two rectangular chips on the CPU
> > > > near the middle to the right a bit that both are 7404 but none say Z24
> > > > on them.They have 7 legs on either side.So would it be the first chip
> > > > labelled 7404 and the bottom right leg?
> > > > And on the driver board there are none labelled Z but im thinking it
> > > > may be one of those 9 rectangular chips along the top? Perhaps the 5th
> > > > one? Those have 8 legs per side so perhaps pin 9 is the top right leg?
> > > > I also located the pin 13 of J1 and found it to be a purple wire.It
> > > > looks snug to me.
> > > > I will await the results of my guess work.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Todd
>
> > > Hi Todd,
>
> > > Here are the diagrams to help answer your questions...
> > > Driver Board -http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_1#Driver_...
> > > CPU -http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/cpu1.gif
>
> > > Dual-Inline-Package leg numbering can be found here:http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#DIP_.28Dual_In-li...
>
> > > Yes, 7404s are 14 pin rectangular chips
> > > The 74175 will have 16 pins.
>
> > > The hook is baited...let's see you cast the line... :-)
> > > --
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ok I went down and looked at it and I dont see anything from the
> - Show quoted text -
front.Is this a case of having to remove the board and trace it from
the back? It sounds like im going to be testing it at the point the
plug goes in?
Todd
Chris Hibler
Feb 23, 2012, 2:45:59 PM2/23/12
to
> Ok I went down and looked at it and I dont see anything from the
> front.Is this a case of having to remove the board and trace it from
> the back? It sounds like im going to be testing it at the point the
> plug goes in?
>
> Todd
Todd,
> front.Is this a case of having to remove the board and trace it from
> the back? It sounds like im going to be testing it at the point the
> plug goes in?
>
> Todd
Let's go back to how this circuit works.
The MPU commands lamps (and coils) on by sending signals to the driver
board.
Signals LD1 - LD4 are provided at the input of every 74175 on the
driver board. Then, the device select (DS) for a particular 74175 is
pulsed (clocked). The 74175 then latches the values at LD1 - LD4 and
provides those values as outputs to the MPS-A13 transistors (for
lamps).
If the signal for DS5 is not present, then the value at the 74175 is
indeterminate, and the device will do whatever it's design dictates.
It's expecting the signal to be grounded until the MPU wants to
"clock" a new value into it's latches.
So, being in front of the game, you are in the best position to figure
out how to "buzz" the signal between the 7404 on the MPU and the 74175
on the driver board. You may have to remove the board(s).
Three additional tips...
1. Remove the interboard connector. On your kitchen table, bang both
ends of the harness on the table. Did any pins or pin parts come out?
If so...replace the connector or repin it. Even if the harness has not
been alkaline damaged, those old molex pins are probably shot and
should be replaced.
2. To test a 74XX series IC, follow this procedure...
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=General#Testing_an_integrated_circuit
3. If you really want to have some fun, purchase a logic probe. This
kind of debugging is much easier with a probe.
Example...http://www.ebay.com/itm/360425765007
I have a couple of these. They work well.
Throw me a cold one, will ya? I'm parched.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
tcvid...@yahoo.ca
Feb 23, 2012, 11:40:21 PM2/23/12
to
>
> 3. If you really want to have some fun, purchase a logic probe. This
> kind of debugging is much easier with a probe.
> Example...http://www.ebay.com/itm/360425765007
> I have a couple of these. They work well.
>
> Throw me a cold one, will ya? I'm parched.
> --
> Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31http://www.Team-EM.comhttp://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htmhttp://www.PinWiki.com- The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info
> 3. If you really want to have some fun, purchase a logic probe. This
> kind of debugging is much easier with a probe.
> Example...http://www.ebay.com/itm/360425765007
> I have a couple of these. They work well.
>
> Throw me a cold one, will ya? I'm parched.
> --
Hi Chris,
Thanks for all the very helpful information and links.Im getting how
the signals travel now.So I have tried buzzing from the Z24 pin 14 on
the CPU to Z5 pin 9 on the driver board and didnt get a buzz.Now I
want to move to the next step of trying to buzz from Z24 pin 14 to the
card edge connector but im not sure where that is located.This is the
first time I have heard the term ''card edge connector'' and need that
explained before I can move forward.I do know that if I get a buzz
there,im to move to checking the Z5 pin 9 on the driver board to its
card edge connector.Then going beyond that I now know how to check the
actual chip should I have to go that far.
Thanks,
Todd
Chris Hibler
Feb 24, 2012, 4:31:24 AM2/24/12
to
>
> Hi Chris,
> Thanks for all the very helpful information and links.Im getting how
> the signals travel now.So I have tried buzzing from the Z24 pin 14 on
> the CPU to Z5 pin 9 on the driver board and didnt get a buzz.Now I
> want to move to the next step of trying to buzz from Z24 pin 14 to the
> card edge connector but im not sure where that is located.This is the
> first time I have heard the term ''card edge connector'' and need that
> explained before I can move forward.I do know that if I get a buzz
> there,im to move to checking the Z5 pin 9 on the driver board to its
> card edge connector.Then going beyond that I now know how to check the
> actual chip should I have to go that far.
> Thanks,
> Todd
Hi Todd,
> Hi Chris,
> Thanks for all the very helpful information and links.Im getting how
> the signals travel now.So I have tried buzzing from the Z24 pin 14 on
> the CPU to Z5 pin 9 on the driver board and didnt get a buzz.Now I
> want to move to the next step of trying to buzz from Z24 pin 14 to the
> card edge connector but im not sure where that is located.This is the
> first time I have heard the term ''card edge connector'' and need that
> explained before I can move forward.I do know that if I get a buzz
> there,im to move to checking the Z5 pin 9 on the driver board to its
> card edge connector.Then going beyond that I now know how to check the
> actual chip should I have to go that far.
> Thanks,
> Todd
Edge connectors are the edges of the printed circuit board that the
connectors plug into (actually over). On your System 1 MPU board,
power comes into the board at J1 on the left hand side of the board.
The edge connector that carries the signal to the driver board is J5.
Here is a diagram that shows the edge connectors for each board (very
well drawn by Jim "Gott Lieb?" Palson).
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Gtb_sys1_boards_2.png
(if you click on the picture in this link, it will enlarge).
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
tcvid...@yahoo.ca
Feb 24, 2012, 2:17:19 PM2/24/12
to
>
> > Hi Chris,
> > Thanks for all the very helpful information and links.Im getting how
> > the signals travel now.So I have tried buzzing from the Z24 pin 14 on
> > the CPU to Z5 pin 9 on the driver board and didnt get a buzz.Now I
> > want to move to the next step of trying to buzz from Z24 pin 14 to the
> > card edge connector but im not sure where that is located.This is the
> > first time I have heard the term ''card edge connector'' and need that
> > explained before I can move forward.I do know that if I get a buzz
> > there,im to move to checking the Z5 pin 9 on the driver board to its
> > card edge connector.Then going beyond that I now know how to check the
> > actual chip should I have to go that far.
> > Thanks,
> > Todd
>
> Hi Todd,
>
> Edge connectors are the edges of the printed circuit board that the
> connectors plug into (actually over). On your System 1 MPU board,
> power comes into the board at J1 on the left hand side of the board.
> The edge connector that carries the signal to the driver board is J5.
> Here is a diagram that shows the edge connectors for each board (very
> well drawn by Jim "Gott Lieb?" Palson).
>
> http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Gtb_sys1_boards_2.png
> (if you click on the picture in this link, it will enlarge).
>
> --
> Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31http://www.Team-EM.comhttp://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htmhttp://www.PinWiki.com- The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info- Hide quoted text -
> > Hi Chris,
> > Thanks for all the very helpful information and links.Im getting how
> > the signals travel now.So I have tried buzzing from the Z24 pin 14 on
> > the CPU to Z5 pin 9 on the driver board and didnt get a buzz.Now I
> > want to move to the next step of trying to buzz from Z24 pin 14 to the
> > card edge connector but im not sure where that is located.This is the
> > first time I have heard the term ''card edge connector'' and need that
> > explained before I can move forward.I do know that if I get a buzz
> > there,im to move to checking the Z5 pin 9 on the driver board to its
> > card edge connector.Then going beyond that I now know how to check the
> > actual chip should I have to go that far.
> > Thanks,
> > Todd
>
> Hi Todd,
>
> Edge connectors are the edges of the printed circuit board that the
> connectors plug into (actually over). On your System 1 MPU board,
> power comes into the board at J1 on the left hand side of the board.
> The edge connector that carries the signal to the driver board is J5.
> Here is a diagram that shows the edge connectors for each board (very
> well drawn by Jim "Gott Lieb?" Palson).
>
> http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Gtb_sys1_boards_2.png
> (if you click on the picture in this link, it will enlarge).
>
> --
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Chris,
Thanks for the explanation of how to find the edge connector for that
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Chris,
chip.I started by taking the CPU board out and turning it over and
buzzing the solder bump on the back of the leg in question (Z24 pin
14) to the various edge connectors in the row J5.(Yes a very well done
diagram by Jim ''Gott Lieb'' Palson) (gotta love that handle!) and got
a buzz on several of the individual connector ends in that row.I then
moved to checking the actual chip using the dmd method described and
pictured in your link.Holding the red on ground (bottom left leg) I
worked my way around getting good readings of high 4's to low 5's
until I got to the leg in question (top right,or pin 14) and got
nothing.It just stayed at 0000.So im guessing that that chip is bad
and needs replacing? Is it the same sort of job in replacing the small
transistors? But with 14 legs instead of the 3 you do with a
transistor?
Thanks,
Todd
tcvid...@yahoo.ca
Feb 28, 2012, 2:10:09 AM2/28/12
to
>
> > > Hi Chris,
> > > Thanks for all the very helpful information and links.Im getting how
> > > the signals travel now.So I have tried buzzing from the Z24 pin 14 on
> > > the CPU to Z5 pin 9 on the driver board and didnt get a buzz.Now I
> > > want to move to the next step of trying to buzz from Z24 pin 14 to the
> > > card edge connector but im not sure where that is located.This is the
> > > first time I have heard the term ''card edge connector'' and need that
> > > explained before I can move forward.I do know that if I get a buzz
> > > there,im to move to checking the Z5 pin 9 on the driver board to its
> > > card edge connector.Then going beyond that I now know how to check the
> > > actual chip should I have to go that far.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Todd
>
> > Hi Todd,
>
> > Edge connectors are the edges of the printed circuit board that the
> > connectors plug into (actually over). On your System 1 MPU board,
> > power comes into the board at J1 on the left hand side of the board.
> > The edge connector that carries the signal to the driver board is J5.
> > Here is a diagram that shows the edge connectors for each board (very
> > well drawn by Jim "Gott Lieb?" Palson).
>
> >http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Gtb_sys1_boards_2.png
> > (if you click on the picture in this link, it will enlarge).
>
> > --
> > Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31http://www.Team-EM.comhttp://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/ind...The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info- Hide quoted text -
> > > Hi Chris,
> > > Thanks for all the very helpful information and links.Im getting how
> > > the signals travel now.So I have tried buzzing from the Z24 pin 14 on
> > > the CPU to Z5 pin 9 on the driver board and didnt get a buzz.Now I
> > > want to move to the next step of trying to buzz from Z24 pin 14 to the
> > > card edge connector but im not sure where that is located.This is the
> > > first time I have heard the term ''card edge connector'' and need that
> > > explained before I can move forward.I do know that if I get a buzz
> > > there,im to move to checking the Z5 pin 9 on the driver board to its
> > > card edge connector.Then going beyond that I now know how to check the
> > > actual chip should I have to go that far.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Todd
>
> > Hi Todd,
>
> > Edge connectors are the edges of the printed circuit board that the
> > connectors plug into (actually over). On your System 1 MPU board,
> > power comes into the board at J1 on the left hand side of the board.
> > The edge connector that carries the signal to the driver board is J5.
> > Here is a diagram that shows the edge connectors for each board (very
> > well drawn by Jim "Gott Lieb?" Palson).
>
> >http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Gtb_sys1_boards_2.png
> > (if you click on the picture in this link, it will enlarge).
>
> > --
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi Chris,
> Thanks for the explanation of how to find the edge connector for that
> chip.I started by taking the CPU board out and turning it over and
> buzzing the solder bump on the back of the leg in question (Z24 pin
> 14) to the various edge connectors in the row J5.(Yes a very well done
> diagram by Jim ''Gott Lieb'' Palson) (gotta love that handle!) and got
> a buzz on several of the individual connector ends in that row.I then
> moved to checking the actual chip using the dmd method described and
> pictured in your link.Holding the red on ground (bottom left leg) I
> worked my way around getting good readings of high 4's to low 5's
> until I got to the leg in question (top right,or pin 14) and got
> nothing.It just stayed at 0000.So im guessing that that chip is bad
> and needs replacing? Is it the same sort of job in replacing the small
> transistors? But with 14 legs instead of the 3 you do with a
> transistor?
>
> Thanks,
> Todd- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Hi Chris,
> Thanks for the explanation of how to find the edge connector for that
> chip.I started by taking the CPU board out and turning it over and
> buzzing the solder bump on the back of the leg in question (Z24 pin
> 14) to the various edge connectors in the row J5.(Yes a very well done
> diagram by Jim ''Gott Lieb'' Palson) (gotta love that handle!) and got
> a buzz on several of the individual connector ends in that row.I then
> moved to checking the actual chip using the dmd method described and
> pictured in your link.Holding the red on ground (bottom left leg) I
> worked my way around getting good readings of high 4's to low 5's
> until I got to the leg in question (top right,or pin 14) and got
> nothing.It just stayed at 0000.So im guessing that that chip is bad
> and needs replacing? Is it the same sort of job in replacing the small
> transistors? But with 14 legs instead of the 3 you do with a
> transistor?
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have an update for anyone following this thread.I asked a very
> - Show quoted text -
knowledgable member of my pinball league tonite about this and
apparently you have to cut these chips out.You cut along the black
plastic back to get to the 14 legs.Then you heat the legs up one by
one and pull them out.Be carefull not to overheat or you will ruin the
connector on the board.Then when you are putting the new chip in you
should first solder in a socket so if you need to change that chip
again in the future it will be a simple job.Smart ay?
Todd
Steve Kulpa
Feb 28, 2012, 9:04:43 AM2/28/12
to
>
> > > > Hi Chris,
> > > > Thanks for all the very helpful information and links.Im getting how
> > > > the signals travel now.So I have tried buzzing from the Z24 pin 14 on
> > > > the CPU to Z5 pin 9 on the driver board and didnt get a buzz.Now I
> > > > want to move to the next step of trying to buzz from Z24 pin 14 to the
> > > > card edge connector but im not sure where that is located.This is the
> > > > first time I have heard the term ''card edge connector'' and need that
> > > > explained before I can move forward.I do know that if I get a buzz
> > > > there,im to move to checking the Z5 pin 9 on the driver board to its
> > > > card edge connector.Then going beyond that I now know how to check the
> > > > actual chip should I have to go that far.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Todd
>
> > > Hi Todd,
>
> > > Edge connectors are the edges of the printed circuit board that the
> > > connectors plug into (actually over). On your System 1 MPU board,
> > > power comes into the board at J1 on the left hand side of the board.
> > > The edge connector that carries the signal to the driver board is J5.
> > > Here is a diagram that shows the edge connectors for each board (very
> > > well drawn by Jim "Gott Lieb?" Palson).
>
> > >http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Gtb_sys1_boards_2.png
> > > (if you click on the picture in this link, it will enlarge).
>
> > > --
> > > Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31http://www.Team-EM.comhttp://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/ind...Place to go for Pinball Repair Info- Hide quoted text -
> > > > Hi Chris,
> > > > Thanks for all the very helpful information and links.Im getting how
> > > > the signals travel now.So I have tried buzzing from the Z24 pin 14 on
> > > > the CPU to Z5 pin 9 on the driver board and didnt get a buzz.Now I
> > > > want to move to the next step of trying to buzz from Z24 pin 14 to the
> > > > card edge connector but im not sure where that is located.This is the
> > > > first time I have heard the term ''card edge connector'' and need that
> > > > explained before I can move forward.I do know that if I get a buzz
> > > > there,im to move to checking the Z5 pin 9 on the driver board to its
> > > > card edge connector.Then going beyond that I now know how to check the
> > > > actual chip should I have to go that far.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Todd
>
> > > Hi Todd,
>
> > > Edge connectors are the edges of the printed circuit board that the
> > > connectors plug into (actually over). On your System 1 MPU board,
> > > power comes into the board at J1 on the left hand side of the board.
> > > The edge connector that carries the signal to the driver board is J5.
> > > Here is a diagram that shows the edge connectors for each board (very
> > > well drawn by Jim "Gott Lieb?" Palson).
>
> > >http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:Gtb_sys1_boards_2.png
> > > (if you click on the picture in this link, it will enlarge).
>
> > > --
then suck the solder out quickly and cleanly, without doing any damage
to the traces. When you suck the solder off the last pin and the chip
FALLS OUT, then solder a socket in it's place, being sure that the
notch on the socket matches the position of the notch on the chip you
just removed (not that it matters for the socket but it helps to make
sure you insert the chip into the socket with the proper orientation).
steve
---
Steve Kulpa (cargpb10)
seymour.shabow
Feb 28, 2012, 9:21:03 AM2/28/12
to
Steve Kulpa wrote:
>> I have an update for anyone following this thread.I asked a very
>> knowledgable member of my pinball league tonite about this and
>> apparently you have to cut these chips out.You cut along the black
>> plastic back to get to the 14 legs.Then you heat the legs up one by
>> one and pull them out.Be carefull not to overheat or you will ruin the
>> connector on the board.Then when you are putting the new chip in you
>> should first solder in a socket so if you need to change that chip
>> again in the future it will be a simple job.Smart ay?
>>
>> Todd
>
> Smarter yet - get yourself a good desoldering tool, (e.g., Hakko 808),
> then suck the solder out quickly and cleanly, without doing any damage
> to the traces. When you suck the solder off the last pin and the chip
> FALLS OUT, then solder a socket in it's place, being sure that the
> notch on the socket matches the position of the notch on the chip you
> just removed (not that it matters for the socket but it helps to make
> sure you insert the chip into the socket with the proper orientation).
>
> steve
> ---
Different methods for sure. If the solder is stubborn it's difficult to
>> I have an update for anyone following this thread.I asked a very
>> knowledgable member of my pinball league tonite about this and
>> apparently you have to cut these chips out.You cut along the black
>> plastic back to get to the 14 legs.Then you heat the legs up one by
>> one and pull them out.Be carefull not to overheat or you will ruin the
>> connector on the board.Then when you are putting the new chip in you
>> should first solder in a socket so if you need to change that chip
>> again in the future it will be a simple job.Smart ay?
>>
>> Todd
>
> Smarter yet - get yourself a good desoldering tool, (e.g., Hakko 808),
> then suck the solder out quickly and cleanly, without doing any damage
> to the traces. When you suck the solder off the last pin and the chip
> FALLS OUT, then solder a socket in it's place, being sure that the
> notch on the socket matches the position of the notch on the chip you
> just removed (not that it matters for the socket but it helps to make
> sure you insert the chip into the socket with the proper orientation).
>
> steve
> ---
get the chip to unsolder cleanly - that would be my choice (what steve
said) if possible. If it doesn't desolder cleanly, you have to cut it
out. The risk with cutting it out is that you will crack the plated
through holes/risk lifting pads. To ensure the best chance of success
Resolder the chip, then try desoldering it. If that fails, resolder it
so there's less chance of the pin moving (risking the cracking) as you
cut it out.
-scott
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