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New online repair guides

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Eric A.

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Apr 26, 2011, 9:33:17 AM4/26/11
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Those interested in a new online repair guide please contact me.

After looking into the costs associated with hosting a site like this
I've come to the conclusion that it would be silly for US not to do
this.

First off I'd like to make a statement. I will NEVER and I mean NEVER
hold this information hostage! What I mean by this is if I ever decide
to get out of the hobby, tired of updating, etc. I will pass the torch
to someone else. I won't ask for donations but would do an annual
reminder e-mail similar to what Boag does for the IPDB. Basically I'd
be asking to give back to the organization of your choice. Hmmm maybe
even do a Paypal donate button on the home page for various
organizations. IPDB, PPM, PHOF, etc....

Now, I have yet to contact IPDB so they might be willing to handle
this hosting service so me being the gatekeeper might be a moot point.

I'd like to have people contribute with their own areas of expertise.
For example, if you have experiance in Gottlieb System 1 by all means
tackle that one. System 9-11? Then take that on! I think you all know
what I mean.

Anyways, I'll be open to suggestions and input on all counts. I'm
going to try my hand at HTML but not going to go out and spend 500
bucks on a first rate program. I have access to some free web building
software and if you can give suggestions I'd really appreciate it.

If there are any manual writers out there I'd appreciate the help you
can provide as well!

Hope this gets people as excited as I am!

webfart

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Apr 26, 2011, 9:35:52 AM4/26/11
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Thanks for doing this! In the meantime, I don't understand why everyone
is getting so pissed. The info is still readily available, right now,
for no money. For some of the people on here who aren't so computer
savy, the key word is "archive".


--
webfart
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

seymour.shabow

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Apr 26, 2011, 9:46:46 AM4/26/11
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Eric A. wrote:
> Those interested in a new online repair guide please contact me.
>
> After looking into the costs associated with hosting a site like this
> I've come to the conclusion that it would be silly for US not to do
> this.

Eric, are you going to pool resources with Mario (pinthetic)? He's got
plans rolling to do the same thing.

-scott CARGPB#29

Jazman

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Apr 26, 2011, 9:39:53 AM4/26/11
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Isn't someone already doing this? (ie: Repair wiki threads?)

Jaz

bayoubilly1970

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Apr 26, 2011, 9:40:27 AM4/26/11
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Unless I missed the posting within all the fudge, I didn't see Clay
post anywhere that the repair guides were not coming back in any
form. It's only been a few days, let him figure out what he needs/
wants to do and go from there instead of 'reinventing the wheel'...

Bill Heatherly

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Apr 26, 2011, 9:40:47 AM4/26/11
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The arcive is there but half the pictures are not.
Bill

Eric A.

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Apr 26, 2011, 9:55:38 AM4/26/11
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> wants to do and go from there instead of 'reinventing the wheel'...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I just don't want to ever have the risk of this happening again. So
even if his come up I'm still going forward.

Eric A.

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Apr 26, 2011, 9:56:35 AM4/26/11
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> Jaz- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Wiki stuff makes me nervous. Like someone might just delete everything
or change a bunch of the info, etc....Am I misunderstood isn't this a
possibility?

Eric A.

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Apr 26, 2011, 9:56:56 AM4/26/11
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I'll e-mail him now. Thanks for the heads up.

seymour.shabow

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Apr 26, 2011, 10:05:36 AM4/26/11
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Eric A. wrote:
>
> Wiki stuff makes me nervous. Like someone might just delete everything
> or change a bunch of the info, etc....Am I misunderstood isn't this a
> possibility?

It's policed by the community - any changes can be rolled back. You can
see what changed too with a 'diff' click.

Anyone abusing it will simply be blocked from editing, or there will be
a core group of editors that have access.

-scott CARGPB#29

CEG

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Apr 26, 2011, 10:12:04 AM4/26/11
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> possibility?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

It's backed up so if someone does mess with it-it can be restored.

MrMarco

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Apr 26, 2011, 10:14:56 AM4/26/11
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Howdy,

Last I saw on Clay's site the indexes for repairs are all gone as if
none of them ever existed. It doesn't look like they are coming back.

Suerte,
MrMarco

On Apr 26, 9:40 am, bayoubilly1970 <bayoubill...@gmail.com> wrote:

> wants to do and go from there instead of 'reinventing the wheel'...- Hide quoted text -

Brian Shepherd

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Apr 26, 2011, 10:23:04 AM4/26/11
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On Apr 26, 9:56 am, "Eric A." <eavedes...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Wiki stuff makes me nervous. Like someone might just delete everything
> or change a bunch of the info, etc....Am I misunderstood isn't this a
> possibility?

Wiki software typical track everything, so the only real concern is if
the site owner kills the site completely.

It works fine for Wikipedia and millions of other wikis, it'll work
for a repair guide. :-)

-- Brian

internet-guy

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Apr 26, 2011, 10:28:26 AM4/26/11
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Kerry Imming

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Apr 26, 2011, 10:48:45 AM4/26/11
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On Apr 26, 8:55 am, "Eric A." <eavedes...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I just don't want to ever have the risk of this happening again. So
> even if his come up I'm still going forward.
>

For those following along, the new guides have removed the word "free"
and any indication that they are/were a collaborative effort.

I for one fully appreciate the amount of work that went into
organizing the repair guides. I also appreciate your offer to host a
site, but I would really like to give http://www.pinwiki.com a chance
before we go that direction. For the record, the HOSTING costs were
never an issue with the repair guides as Mark has confirmed that he
has and continues to provide free hosting.

I try to help with repair problems here on RGP and there were a few
critical sections that I often referred people to. We have rebuilt
most of that information on http://www.pinwiki.com , so I'll refer
them there from now on.

The monarchy that was pinrepair was the most efficient, but stifled
alternate opinions. It also resulted in the situation we're in now.
I'm willing to invest effort in alternatives before we go back there.
Oh... and we WILL go back there. Those who study history are
condemned to knowing that we are repeating it :-)

- Kerry

Eric A.

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Apr 26, 2011, 10:49:10 AM4/26/11
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> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Yep saw that as well. This was the final decision maker for me to go
forward.

I sent an e-mail to Mario and someone else has contacted me as well.
I'm going to be working with the masses. No sense in starting my own
project. We can make it better working together.

gangstarr

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Apr 26, 2011, 11:36:42 AM4/26/11
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eric
i also have been keeping notes and repair logs for many years, with
much info not on clays sight.
same with video games.
ill contribute....as long as its never brought to a "pay" measure as
well.
has to be free for all.


> I sent an e-mail to Mario and someone else has contacted me as well.
> I'm going to be working with the masses. No sense in starting my own

> project. We can make it better working together.- Hide quoted text -

Ray

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Apr 26, 2011, 11:48:26 AM4/26/11
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> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Hey Guys, I have printed many of Clay's guides (yes hundreds of pages)
in 3 ring binders. Would it help your site to scan and upload those
to pinwiki? Thanks

Koz Pinlicious

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Apr 26, 2011, 11:53:53 AM4/26/11
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On Apr 26, 11:36 am, gangstarr <who_...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Thanks Andy and everyone involved. Andy and Eric are two of the
smartest guys I know when it comes to repairs and Michigan has a great
source of *very* knowledgeable people. Maybe we should include a list
of known techs for each state that if people are having problems
working with the new guides that they can contact for additional help
or even maybe pay for house calls if they are in over their heads?

I think having *multiple sites* where all this info can be accessed is
for the better, like at least 3.

IPDB, Pinwiki, the one Eric A. is doing, and even others is a GREAT
thing.

The information that *many* have contributed to should not be
controlled by just one person or one group ever and should always be
public and free.

I am willing to donate as I have told Mario and am now telling others,
so please keep everyone in the loop as far as what you all have
planned.

Thank you, Koz :-)

ldnayman

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Apr 26, 2011, 11:54:13 AM4/26/11
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I would like to contribute my vast EM repair knowledge, but ONLY if
it's a for-profit project in which all the participants will be paid.
We can sell access to RGP noobs for $30 a year.

Anybody want to start this project up for me?

The Baron

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Apr 26, 2011, 11:58:51 AM4/26/11
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I'd like to make one suggestion for whomever decides to put up a wiki
or new restore/repair info. Please organize the information by topic,
heading, subheading, etc and write actual procedures for doing repairs
within those subheadings. A wiki will actually take care of a lot of
the headings, document structure, and hierachy.

I am in no way complaining about Clay's methods for documentation, but
for folks who want to dive in to a particular repair, a procedure
would be easier to follow than long paragraphs of information with
long winded procedure buried within paragraphs. Here's a basic example
of what I mean:

<heading 2> System 11 Flipper Rebuild

<intro paragraph> All info about flippers, parts needed, inportant
information, caveats, etc.

<heading 3> PROCEDURE

1. Lift playfield
2. Loosen bolt on... (see figure 1)

{figure 1}

3. Pull flipper up from top of playfield...
4. Do the hokey pokey
5. etc


Sorry if that seems too anal, but I'm a Technical Writer by trade and
it drives me nuts to not see technical information chunked and
organized properly. Plus, procedures are a tech's best friend. You can
dive right in and get exactly the info you need to get from point A to
point B.

Also assume your audience is a complete newbie who just bought their
first pin off craigslist. Write the procedures for them. In other
words, the more information, the better. If it's too simple for the
more advanced users, they can just skip to the steps they need.
I also really love the idea of a wiki. They are a great way to drill
down to the exact info you need quickly.
If you'd like me to help in any way, I'd be more than willing.
Obviously, with a wiki, my input wouldn't be needed as much, but I'd
still be willing to help with organizing the information.

Lloyd Olson

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Apr 26, 2011, 12:11:07 PM4/26/11
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That would be a huge NO. Has to be your own work. Don't go ripping off
others. And make an even bigger mess. LTG :)

"Ray" <rutge...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b34f8f21-b526-43ad...@j25g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...

Loki9

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Apr 26, 2011, 12:58:57 PM4/26/11
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I'm sure that more than a few of us downloaded the entire pinrepair
website. I know I did. Either way, we can't use that info directly
on a new site.

miracleman

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Apr 26, 2011, 1:14:09 PM4/26/11
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But if CLAY 'rewrote' other people's info to put on his site, can
other people 're-write' his in their own words on these new sites?

On Apr 26, 12:11 pm, "Lloyd Olson" <l...@ssbilliards.com> wrote:
> That would be a huge NO. Has to be your own work. Don't go ripping off
> others. And make an even bigger mess. LTG :)
>

> "Ray" <rutgersr...@gmail.com> wrote in message

kbliznick

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Apr 26, 2011, 1:32:58 PM4/26/11
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On Apr 26, 10:14 am, miracleman <psychospe...@gmail.com> wrote:
> But if CLAY 'rewrote' other people's info to put on his site, can
> other people 're-write' his in their own words on these new sites?

Yes

The Baron

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Apr 26, 2011, 2:10:47 PM4/26/11
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> > to pinwiki?  Thanks- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Absolutely.

citznfish

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Apr 26, 2011, 2:46:43 PM4/26/11
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I disagree. I think you can use it verbatim. I'd love to see someone
TRY tob ring about a copyright lawsuit on free content that they
didn't contribute to 100% themselves.

Hell, if I had a copy of the old PinRepair.com I'd just throw it up on
my site and see what happens.

Lloyd Olson

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Apr 26, 2011, 2:56:59 PM4/26/11
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Why ?

Has there not been enough bullshit and crap over this yet ?

Why keep it going ?

We have a chance for a fresh start and perhaps rebuild some of the damage
that has been done. Wouldn't it be better to keep moving forward in a
positive fashion.

Or should we keep up the crap and fighting as long as possible ?

Go ahead and destroy every ounce of good that has ever been done here on RGP
for pinball. Go ahead and kill your hobby. Will that satisfy you ?

Lloyd

"citznfish" <citz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a4f03b7b-4aca-4102...@x8g2000prh.googlegroups.com...

CraigC

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Apr 26, 2011, 3:07:04 PM4/26/11
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agreed.

Just because most people in Detroit are on crazy pills doesn't mean we
all need to dose up and go berzerk.

Write a new guide and make it a group effort, something that everyone
can own and contribute to. It would be great to have a central point for
all this information.

OR

Talk Clay off the ledge and get back to business as usual.

-c

Lloyd Olson;1684222 Wrote:
> Why ?
>
> Has there not been enough bullshit and crap over this yet ?
>
> Why keep it going ?
>
> We have a chance for a fresh start and perhaps rebuild some of the
> damage
> that has been done. Wouldn't it be better to keep moving forward in a
> positive fashion.
>
> Or should we keep up the crap and fighting as long as possible ?
>
> Go ahead and destroy every ounce of good that has ever been done here
> on RGP
> for pinball. Go ahead and kill your hobby. Will that satisfy you ?
>
> Lloyd
>

> "citznfish" <citznfish (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
> news:a4f03b7b-4aca-4102-bf05-b110aa05b4f5 (AT) x8g2000prh.googlegroups
> (DOT) com...


>
> I disagree. I think you can use it verbatim. I'd love to see someone
> TRY tob ring about a copyright lawsuit on free content that they
> didn't contribute to 100% themselves.
>
> Hell, if I had a copy of the old PinRepair.com I'd just throw it up on
> my site and see what happens.


--
CraigC

Art

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Apr 26, 2011, 3:10:38 PM4/26/11
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If data center hosting is needed for the project let me know. Our racks have space and bandwidth to host not only the wiki but video, audio, whatever at no charge for the project.

Art-

chuck

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Apr 26, 2011, 3:17:13 PM4/26/11
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I agree that we should create a guide that is owned by the community
(with restrictions on commercial use.) Wiki is a good option but would
need to be locked down to a select group of editors. If anyone thinks
it wouldn't be the target of trolls they are mistaken. Also the idea
of chasing trolls by constantly rolling back entries is too much work.
See the wiki war on Scientology for a great example. The site would
need to be hosted on multiple mirrors around the world to share the
load and increase accessibility. Also no offense to anyone here but I
would like to see the project spearheaded by known people not some
anonymous user who suddenly appeared during this mess. Let's work it
out so there's one large effort and not multiple competing efforts. If
we can do this we'll have a better site in very little time.

freeman

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Apr 26, 2011, 3:27:36 PM4/26/11
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Eric,
It has begun.

Check here: http://www.pinwiki.com

Eric A.

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Apr 26, 2011, 3:45:16 PM4/26/11
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Joke, right?

Tim N.

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Apr 26, 2011, 3:56:34 PM4/26/11
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Of course it is.... Levi would do it for far less than $30 a year, he
is a pinball man-whore :)

goatdan

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Apr 26, 2011, 4:00:32 PM4/26/11
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On Apr 26, 2:17 pm, chuck <ch...@clhess.com> wrote:
> I agree that we should create a guide that is owned by the community
> (with restrictions on commercial use.) Wiki is a good option but would
> need to be locked down to a select group of editors. If anyone thinks
> it wouldn't be the target of trolls they are mistaken. Also the idea
> of chasing trolls by constantly rolling back entries is too much work.
> See the wiki war on Scientology for a great example. The site would
> need to be hosted on multiple mirrors around the world to share the
> load and increase accessibility.  Also no offense to anyone here but I
> would like to see the project spearheaded by known people not some
> anonymous user who suddenly appeared during this mess. Let's work it
> out so there's one large effort and not multiple competing efforts. If
> we can do this we'll have a better site in very little time.

Great way of putting it Chuck.

I'll say this for now -- I have offered to have the Midwest Gaming
Classic site host whatever is come up with. Our hosting plan makes it
so that we have both unlimited space and unlimited bandwidth to host
whatever, so we can come up with a full directory and turn the keys
over to the trusted people who want to do it. I'm totally fine with
doing that -- it costs me absolutely nothing -- but I'm also
absolutely fine with not doing it if people would rather use another
site for it. I'm happy to apply my knowledge in fixes as best as
possible, but I also know that I'm not the best at repairing things in
the world, so this is how I think that I can help the most.

Having said all this, I still support Clay doing whatever he wants
with the guides. I regret the fact that I know a lot of people who
have contributed to those guides and are disappointed that their work
was taken offline without their knowledge or permission and made into
what appears to be a pay thing. To me, that is not cool, and I don't
support that in any way.

With that, I have for a while thought that the guides could be
improved. I find that a lot of the time, I go out and am searching
and searching for things that the guides simply don't have, and to me
there is no reason that a new guide couldn't be made to help contain
even more great information. Whether that information is game
specific (ie how to fix your JP dino) or not about regular repair (ie
how to redecal your game), I think that consolidating as much of this
information as possible would be great.

I like the thought of a pinball wiki, but I think that it should also
be headed by a group (not one or two) of people who are in charge of
it. That way, if you have one person who decides, for any reason,
that he or she wants to spend their time doing something else, the
guides don't fall apart. Having maybe 10 people in charge of the
updates, with contributions being made by anyone would be great I
think.

It is in the time of things like this that the best things seem to
come out of the pinball community. Even if the Clay / PPM / whatever
they are now guides come back, to me this is something that is long
overdue, that we can now do whatever we want with. I do ask that we
all try to work together though to come up with the best solution, as
having 10 people running in 10 different directions instead of working
together would be a disaster.

And again, this has nothing to do with supporting or not supporting
Clay, the PPM or whatever -- it's just that for me, in my first 5
years I used the guides almost exclusively when working on repairs.
Since that time, I can't say I have used them at all because it is
usually more specific stuff I'm looking for (see my posts on removing
side rails just recently) that I think a new guide could also cover.
Clay's great, I got my JD from him and have talked with him on
numerous other occasions, and his help definitely got me more into
pinball -- but let's just all step it up so that no one person needs
to carry the burden.

citznfish

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Apr 26, 2011, 4:33:14 PM4/26/11
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On Apr 26, 11:56 am, "Lloyd Olson" <l...@ssbilliards.com> wrote:
> Why ?
>
> Has there not been enough bullshit and crap over this yet ?
>
> Why keep it going ?
>
> We have a chance for a fresh start and perhaps rebuild some of the damage
> that has been done. Wouldn't it be better to keep moving forward in a
> positive fashion.
>
> Or should we keep up the crap and fighting as long as possible ?
>
> Go ahead and destroy every ounce of good that has ever been done here on RGP
> for pinball. Go ahead and kill your hobby. Will that satisfy you ?
>
> Lloyd
Overreacting a bit aren't you? Geeesh. Maybe you need to step back and
take a deep breath.

All I am saying is that I think anyone could rehost that content
verbatim and nothing would happen. It's the only comment I have made
on this entire debacle. and I'd rather have someone host the old
content then wait for it to be re-written again in a few months.

Seriously Lloyd, 50,000 posts and you shouldn't be over reacting like
that.

chuck

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Apr 26, 2011, 4:38:53 PM4/26/11
to

Casey contacted me and it turns out that I do know him ;-) So, I
really do believe he's genuine and taking good steps to help make this
a reality. I've suggested he contact Mario and Eric so that we can
unify and create a solution that benefits everyone.

AVP Pinball Division

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Apr 26, 2011, 9:53:42 PM4/26/11
to
"citznfish" <citz...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6a8dfc33-7f6c-49b5...@t19g2000prd.googlegroups.com...

> Overreacting a bit aren't you? Geeesh. Maybe you need to step back and
> take a deep breath.

Lloyd's not overreacting, merely stating fact. PPM can't sell DVDs because
Clay does not own the rights to all of the information from the repair
guides. Hosting the original guides verbatim, even for free, would violate
copyright on Clay's material. Taking his work and paraphrasing, rewriting
it or simply starting anew, which is what's happening right now, is the best
way to go.

A quick Google search on you reveals nine posts since November 16th 2007.
With that said welcome to my block list.
--
Pistol Pete

firepower

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Apr 26, 2011, 10:39:35 PM4/26/11
to
I've been bashing a bunch of Sys 3-7 repair and background into the
PinWiki.com site. It's the era I know best. Not pretty yet, as I
haven't published any diagrams or added pictures while I sort that side
of things out.

I have added to a few sections on System 7 MPU. I thought getting a
framework in there fast was the best way forward and then let others add
detail and correct any errors or outright mistakes. So far that's
working, and I'm not referring to *any guides* to write my entries for
fear of even paraphrasing other repair stuff. Except *my own*
previously hosted information.

I think it could take off, if enough people get on board to help.

http://pinwiki.com/index.php?title=Williams_System_3_-_7#Problems_and_Fixes

We don't want to host or copy anything from other people. That's a
sure fire recipe for disaster, way too polarising for RGP and pinball.

Lloyd as always is 100% on the money.

Instead, lets be positive and see if the people who wrote some of the
good pin guides and repair info out there are willing to add their .02
to the site(s).

-Richard

Eric A.

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Apr 26, 2011, 11:05:50 PM4/26/11
to
On Apr 26, 11:36 am, gangstarr <who_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Totally agree andy! Thanks for volunteering! I'll pas it along.

Eric A.

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Apr 26, 2011, 11:09:10 PM4/26/11
to

Don't forget Mike Breakvelt! I still say his is the MAN! I aspire to
be as good as Mikey one day! An noooooo I'm not being sarcastic!

stevenp

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Apr 26, 2011, 11:22:11 PM4/26/11
to

Tim N.;1684269 Wrote:
> On Apr 26, 2:45*pm, "Eric A." <eavedes... (AT) comcast (DOT) net>
> wrote:

> > On Apr 26, 11:54*am, ldnayman <ldnay... (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote:
> >
> > > I would like to contribute my vast EM repair knowledge, but ONLY
> if
> > > it's a for-profit project in which all the participants will be
> paid.
> > > We can sell access to RGP noobs for $30 a year.
> >
> > > Anybody want to start this project up for me?
> >
> > Joke, right?
>
> Of course it is.... Levi would do it for far less than $30 a year, he
> is a pinball man-whore :)

Levi would do it for a little WD40 on his plunger--even though we know
this is a no-no! :)


--
stevenp

Koz Pinlicious

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Apr 26, 2011, 11:30:47 PM4/26/11
to

Mike goes without saying, EM Dave, Jerry, Chance Tess, Many Many
others! :-)

-Koz

Mick McDonald

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Apr 26, 2011, 11:56:15 PM4/26/11
to
Jim Kaszinski as well! One of the many MVP techs at the MPE!

Dr_Gonzo

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Apr 27, 2011, 12:14:32 AM4/27/11
to

> I think it could take off, if enough people get on board to help.

Exactly right.

I wish I could do more but I'm not near experienced enough. I wanted
to put in basic info that pinwiki needs, added lists of games and
such. I didn't want to ripoff other pics and info from the web, so I
did what I could. Only pin I own currently is a sample Amazon Hunt.

http://www.pinwiki.com/index.php?title=Amazon_Hunt

yes there's more pics coming since I know AH is a A lister. Be
patient. Try not to constantly hound me because you guys can't get
enough AH.

William Brower

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Apr 27, 2011, 12:34:45 AM4/27/11
to

You don't want me to add to this thing, I'm the worst spelling and
typer on this group. Nobody would make heads or tales of it. I thank
all you guys for putting this BIG project together.

Just for fun, it would be nice to have a section of pinball related
song links, with a lyric section and Youtube links too. Is this
possible? Would other like myself like a "Fun" section?

Also maybe a hack section for good and bad hacks that could be added
to the "fun" section...Am I asking too much?...Please.

And maybe a visual pinball section and a custom pinball section added
to the "Fun" section too...pretty please.

How about some old vintage arcade pictures to have in the "Fun"
section. thanks.

After all Life and Pinball are "Fun", so I vote for a "Just For Fun
Section", That is Pinball related. Anyone agree or disagree with a
section like this?

I can help with finding some of this stuff, but as you all know, I
suck at spelling and typing.

Thank-You....You Guys are Great.

Bill

Tamster

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Apr 27, 2011, 12:50:34 AM4/27/11
to

THUMBS UP FOR CRAIG AND LLOYD! Let's move on... I'm tired of having
to see nothing but post on what is going on with Pinrepair and Clay!
I think it will be exciting to get new stuff out and new ideas...
This should be exciting! If Clay decides to reformat to his liking,
and his own information, great more power to him. THE MORE THE
MERRIER!

Nacman

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Apr 27, 2011, 12:55:59 AM