Need help troubleshooting Atari Airborne Avenger

[Marc Johnston]

Hello all! I purchased this pin about a week ago, and have been doing research almost non stop since then. I have the manual/schematics, and I have verified that the power supply is putting out the correct voltage. I also was able to find another post that had the same problem as mine, but I did not find any solution to that post. My problem is, when power is first turned on, all the solenoids fire at once, and then nothing happens. The back box is lit, but there are no playfield lights, nor any displays on the score panel. The test button does nothing, nor does inputting credits. I have verified that the MPU is getting +5VDC, and I installed an LED as a quick check on the power status. My next step is to clean all the edge connectors. Someone mentioned using dialectical grease, which I will probably do. Does anyone out there have a clue as to what's going on here? Any help will be greatly appreciated!

Marc

[SpecialWhenLit]

On Feb 5, 9:09 pm, Marc Johnston <163ko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all!  I purchased this pin about a week ago, and have been doing research almost non stop since then. I have the manual/schematics, and I have verified that the power supply is putting out the correct voltage.  I also was able to find another post that had the same problem as mine, but I did not find any solution to that post.  My problem is, when power is first turned on, all the solenoids fire at once, and then nothing happens.  The back box is lit, but there are no playfield lights, nor any displays on the score panel.  The test button does nothing, nor does inputting credits.  I have verified that the MPU is getting +5VDC, and I installed an LED as a quick check on the power status.  My next step is to clean all the edge connectors.  Someone mentioned using dialectical grease, which I will probably do.  Does anyone out there have a clue as to what's going on here?  Any help will be greatly appreciated!
>
> Marc

First thing on Atari machines is to make sure all the boards have a
good solid common connection.

EK

[Marc Johnston]

I will check that. I did find it odd that unlike other pins I have seen, there aren't any grounding straps going from board to board. Course, everything about the Atari pins is a bit odd. :)

Marc

[barakandl]

> > EK- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I had major problems with edge connectors on my Middle Earth. I even
installed molex style connectors for a few of them too baddly burned /
worn.

I also had bad roms which made the game just spew junk on power up
(random flashing of lights, coils, displays etc...)

[Marc Johnston]

I've heard about issues with the roms, but I am trying to eliminate everything else before I go there. I know I can clean the connector edges on the board, but is there a good way to check the plugs themselves? I was thinking continuity might be a way.

Marc

[barakandl]

> > (random flashing of lights, coils, displays etc...)- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Sure. Use your DMM on resistance and check points past the
connector. I would not check continuity with a dmm lead on the
connector as the pressure can give you false reading. Until it boots
up i would not worry about the coil / switch / lamp connectors as they
will not stop it from booting.

I had to rebuild the power input to the main board.

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9246/20121118143804.jpg

[Marc Johnston]

Thanks a ton for the info. I was thinking the power was coming through the 4 pin molex, and not that edge connector. If I unplug the coil/lamp/switch connectors, I assume I will know that it boots by the readout on the playfield score panel (all 8's)?

Marc

[barakandl]

> >http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9246/20121118143804.jpg- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

My middle earth boots up to all 8's on the displays. Once it goes
into test mode or start a game the displays change.

You are probably correct about the input. None the less that
connector on mine was burned up good and worn past the copper.

[barakandl]

> > >http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9246/20121118143804.jpg-Hide quoted text -

>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> My middle earth boots up to all 8's on the displays.  Once it goes
> into test mode or start a game the displays change.
>
> You are probably correct about the input.  None the less that

> connector on mine was burned up good and worn past the copper.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

****

I should mention too if you need to replace the masked roms you can
use 2532 EPROMs and not have to do any trace cutting / jumpering.
Just have to double up the .716 rom images.

My board had crazy looking tall rom sockets. They where mis matched
metals (gold socket i think) and that can cause problems over time.
Try reseating the roms to break loose any corrosion.

[Marc Johnston]

I think I have the same board:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q_ZGlBo-YTw/UQpruCwUskI/AAAAAAAABgE/kdyGTicOLeg/s800/20130130_215909.jpg

[barakandl]

On Feb 6, 1:28 pm, Marc Johnston <163ko...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think I have the same board:
>

> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q_ZGlBo-YTw/UQpruCwUskI/AAAAAAAABg...

> > > > >http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9246/20121118143804.jpg-Hidequoted text -

>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > My middle earth boots up to all 8's on the displays.  Once it goes
>
> > > into test mode or start a game the displays change.
>
> > > You are probably correct about the input.  None the less that
>
> > > connector on mine was burned up good and worn past the copper.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > ****
>
> > I should mention too if you need to replace the masked roms you can
>
> > use 2532 EPROMs and not have to do any trace cutting / jumpering.
>
> > Just have to double up the .716 rom images.
>
> > My board had crazy looking tall rom sockets.  They where mis matched
>
> > metals (gold socket i think) and that can cause problems over time.
>

> > Try reseating the roms to break loose any corrosion.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Yep, middle earth has the identical board. Let me know if you need to
check anything on mine.

Looks like you solenoid fuse card is in the wrong position. I believe
mine is on the middle edge connector. Make sure everything is hooked
up properly.

[k...@evolve-studios.net]

On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 12:09:22 AM UTC-5, Marc Johnston wrote:
> Hello all! I purchased this pin about a week ago, and have been doing research almost non stop since then. I have the manual/schematics, and I have verified that the power supply is putting out the correct voltage. I also was able to find another post that had the same problem as mine, but I did not find any solution to that post. My problem is, when power is first turned on, all the solenoids fire at once, and then nothing happens. The back box is lit, but there are no playfield lights, nor any displays on the score panel. The test button does nothing, nor does inputting credits. I have verified that the MPU is getting +5VDC, and I installed an LED as a quick check on the power status. My next step is to clean all the edge connectors. Someone mentioned using dialectical grease, which I will probably do. Does anyone out there have a clue as to what's going on here? Any help will be greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> Marc

I have an Airborne Avenger if you need picts of anything. Once its fixed replace the ball with a powerball you will not be sorry, makes the game 100 times more awesome.

[Marc Johnston]

Awesome! Yeah, I'd like pics of the MPU board, as now I'm a bit concerned that my solenoid fuse card is in the wrong place! I had heard about the power ball, and I am going to do that for sure. I'm also curious about the plastic board that is supposed to go above the MPU. Mine doesn't have it, but I was going to make one from foamcore. I appreciate everyones help!

Marc

[Marc Johnston]

Oh wow! I hope nothing is blown on the MPU. This is exactly the way it was when I purchased it, but if it is in the wrong place, that would explain a lot!

Marc

[k...@evolve-studios.net]

I will take some picts this evening for you

[barakandl]

> I will take some picts this evening for you- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

The connector housing should be labeled as well as the PCB should be
labeled.

[Marc Johnston]

Yup, my solenoid fuse block was in the wrong spot. I am unsure which way connector P8 plugs into the top of the fuse block, so I haven't plugged them in yet. I cleaned all the connectors, and now when I power it up, it seems like it is stuck in test mode. Usually some lights are lit on the playfield, and if I cycle the power, different segments of lights come one, like it is cycling through test mode. Twice, when I turned it on, it actually booted normally, and let me play!! Yay!! I did check the test mode button, and it appears to be fine. I also traced the purple wire going to it back to the connector, and then verified I had continuity on the board. Pretty happy though!

Marc

[Marc Johnston]

The more I think about it, the more I thinking it's not stuck in test mode. If I understand the manual, on the first press of the test mode button, all the lights are lit. When I power up, sometimes one lamp is lit, other times a row of them are lit. It does beep on power up, but the tone varies a bit. All of my connectors look good, as does the edge traces. Nothing is burnt, and nothing looked corroded, but I cleaned them anyway.

Marc

[k...@evolve-studios.net]

On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 12:09:22 AM UTC-5, Marc Johnston wrote:

> Hello all! I purchased this pin about a week ago, and have been doing research almost non stop since then. I have the manual/schematics, and I have verified that the power supply is putting out the correct voltage. I also was able to find another post that had the same problem as mine, but I did not find any solution to that post. My problem is, when power is first turned on, all the solenoids fire at once, and then nothing happens. The back box is lit, but there are no playfield lights, nor any displays on the score panel. The test button does nothing, nor does inputting credits. I have verified that the MPU is getting +5VDC, and I installed an LED as a quick check on the power status. My next step is to clean all the edge connectors. Someone mentioned using dialectical grease, which I will probably do. Does anyone out there have a clue as to what's going on here? Any help will be greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> Marc

Pictures: http://www.evolvestudios.com/pinball/avenger/album1/

[Marc Johnston]

Thanks so much for the pics. Now I know which way to plug in P8 to the fuse board.

Marc

On Wednesday, February 6, 2013 10:56:37 PM UTC-5, k...@evolve-studios.net wrote:

>
> Pictures: http://www.evolvestudios.com/pinball/avenger/album1/

[Marc Johnston]

Just an update, I have eliminated the connectors as a problem. For some reason the CPU isn't booting. I took the MPU out, and made me a +5VDC power supply. When I power on, probing pin 40 of the CPU shows high very quickly, then low. Now if I hit the reset button on the board a bunch of times, pin 40 will go high, and I can probe the other pins, and see activity. The weird thing is, if I check the voltage at pin 40, I'm only showing +3VDC, not the +5VDC I believe it is supposed to show. I have +5VDC at various places on the board, so I am not sure what's causing this. Perhaps the CPU or the socket is suspect?

[John Robertson]

That is the correct display (all 8s) on powerup. After a minute or three
the displays blank and just the 1st/2nd/3rd/4th light up in an endless
cycle.

John :-#)#

>
> You are probably correct about the input. None the less that
> connector on mine was burned up good and worn past the copper.

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

[John Robertson]

I sure hope your solenoid fuse PCB (and solenoid connector) is not on
the middle connector, otherwise you will damage the MPU!!!!!!! This can
be fixed, but it takes up to a couple of hours and a bunch of parts -
have fixed a few games where this has happened.

The solenoid connector MUST go to the connector beside the voltage
regulator (transistor like device with heat sink) on the upper left
corner of the motherboard.

A rule of thumb when first powering up a game is to ALWAYS unplug the
solenoids from the MPU or solenoid driver board! Get the MPU running,
get the displays lit, get the indicators lights going and then and only
then start looking at the solenoids. You see, if the game is basically
alive (switch test works properly, lamp test works properly) then you
have a pretty good idea of where the solenoid connector will go, it is
usually the only socket(s) left (except on Atari! Read the manual to be
sure you know where the solenoid cable connects).

I need to write more on my page on Atari, but haven't had a machine in
for a while to grab pictures. Plus no time what with trying to add my
1,000s of parts to the online catalogue.

https://www.flippers.com/atari_pin_service.html

John :-#)#

[John Robertson]

Marc Johnston wrote:
> Just an update, I have eliminated the connectors as a problem. For some reason the CPU isn't booting. I took the MPU out, and made me a +5VDC power supply. When I power on, probing pin 40 of the CPU shows high very quickly, then low. Now if I hit the reset button on the board a bunch of times, pin 40 will go high, and I can probe the other pins, and see activity. The weird thing is, if I check the voltage at pin 40, I'm only showing +3VDC, not the +5VDC I believe it is supposed to show. I have +5VDC at various places on the board, so I am not sure what's causing this. Perhaps the CPU or the socket is suspect?

3VDC is OK for Reset High input, that is above the minimum TTL levels
(2.0V) for a "1" input. TTL driven output Low is defined as under 0.4V.
TTL input Low is under 0.8V

http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/ACB4BD7550C4374C86256BFB0067A4BD

Always check with the manufacturers of the device for voltage
requirements, a quick check on "TTL voltage high low" gave a lot of
errors - with people saying a high was anything from 3 to 5V, whereas it
is defined as anything over 2.5V, and I saw lows defined as under 2V
which is incorrect as that is within the Undefined region for TTL (0.8
to 2.5V) where the device can't make up it's mind about being high or
low and will often randomly chose either.

[Marc Johnston]

John,

My solenoid connector was plugged into the correct place, BUT the person that I bought the machine from had plugged the solenoid fuse board into the un-used J6 edge connector. That left the solenoids without any fuse protection! Luckily, I have been working on it without the solenoids plugged in. I did get the machine to boot to attract mode three times, and was able to verify that all switches, and the score/ball displays are fine. I did not have the solenoids plugged in, but far as I know, they are fine. As in my previous post, I am currently checking the board out of the machine.

Marc

[Marc Johnston]

John,

Thank you so much for your input here! I'm glad that you cleared up the input voltage. I've been trying to follow the Atari pinball troubleshooting flowchart as best I can, but this is new territory for me.

Marc

[barakandl]

Just checked my Middle Earth. The reset pin of the CPU sits at 3v AFTER reset is successful.

Pushing the reset button on the MPU takes it to 0v (as expected) thenn promptly goes to 3v.

[Marc Johnston]

Thanks for checking that. 9 times out of 10, when I push the reset button, mine goes to 0v, and then to around 0.18v (low). In the Atari Pinball Troublshooting PDF, it asks if A2 pin 8 is low. Mine shows high, so I goto the next section that tells me to troubleshoot buffers A4 and what looks like B11.

Marc

[Marc Johnston]

I'm wondering if either of you guys can help me out with a question about chip A4. I was going through the board, and testing the chips the way pinrepair.com stated. By putting the DMM on the diode function, and then placing the red lead on the ground pin, and probing the other pins (besides Vcc). On chip A4, pins 14, and 11, I am showing a short. All the other chips I have tested so far have shown between 0.4v or 0.6v on the pins. Since the Atari Troubleshooting Guide directed me to A4,I'm thinking it is bad. I went ahead and ordered a couple, but could either of you verify that I am on the right track?

Marc

[Marc Johnston]

Figured I would update this thread on the current status of the AA. I replaced what I thought was a faulty chip, but that did not help. Luckily, I reached out to NuAtari/HoustonPinball. He actually had a fully working and tested AA MPU that he would swap out for mine, at the normal repair cost. I now have a almost fully working machine! I say almost, because for some reason, most of the general illumination lights are not lit. The ones under the playfield inserts, and in the bumper caps are lit, as well as the coin door, and backglass. I have replaced some of the bulbs, thinking they might be burnt out, but no luck. Currently getting advice from NuAtari, so we will see. But the game is playable, and although it can be a bit slow at times, it's not that bad. Thanks for everyones help!

[heske...@gmail.com]

i found this post searching the internet.
i bought also this machine. and it is not working.
first of all i found out the the power was not oke. so fix this problem.
then when i powered on the unit. the solenoids are activated and some lights are on.
then only 2 lights stay's on. after pressing the reset button same thing happend.
the only strange thing i found checking the pictures here in this topic is that i don't have any chips in the big sockets on the MPU.
but i have in the small sockets chips.
i will make a picture of this.
also i have one connector where nothing is connected to.
and next to the service outlet there is a thing that i don't have in the unit. not the fuses but on the other side of the outlet. can anybody tell me what it is?

thanks for the help so far i will check the further

[John Robertson]

You need the operators manual to figure out how things go together. The
problem is you are not familiar with the names of parts and as such
refer to things in ways that it is difficult to understand exactly what
you are talking about.

If you need an operators manual contact me or one of the other sellers
of these (I have factory originals) and then study it before attempting
to power up the game again. Plugging connectors to the wrong spots on
the main logic board is guaranteed to damage the logic!

One rule of thumb I use for testing games is to ALWAYS remove the
primary solenoid fuse at the rectifier board to avoid damaging the logic
board or solenoids if there is a problem. Most games (other than
Bally/Stern) will power up just fine with no solenoid power and then you
can run the display tests, switch tests, etc. to see if the logic
basically works before powering up the solenoids.

However before turning the game up you MUST have the operators manual
and must read how the game connections are made before going any further.

[timo heskes]

i have the operators manual and also the troubleshoot manual. i will disconnect the solenoids.

i'm also a electronic service engineer so i know about power things and stuff. first thing i found in the manual is that it is not a good thing to place the connectors in the wrong place so i checked before i switch on the system.

the thing is that i can't find in the manual what is standing next to the service outlet. and what needs to be connected to the small connector.
that connector is next the the volume knob on a smal pcb with some resistors on it

[John Robertson]

Nuts, IPDB.org is down so I can't check various cabinet pictures to
identify that item. So, send me a picture, if you don't mind, and I'll
identify it for you. I think I know what it is, but would prefer to be sure.

The email address is valid or you can replace spam with jrr.

[timo heskes]

bellow link are the pictures i made from my unit
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8dbsetm1i7ro03e/6aLqYT9XJW

[John Robertson]

On 03/26/2013 8:05 AM, timo heskes wrote:
> bellow link are the pictures i made from my unit
> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8dbsetm1i7ro03e/6aLqYT9XJW
>

The item you are looking for is the TILT PENDULUM...that is the metal
hook and ring assembly to the right of the service outlet.

I should have original Atari ones left.

[timo heskes]

oke thanks.
so it can work without.
also do you no what needs to be connected to the loose connector next to the volume knob?
then i need to find out why it is not working.

[John Robertson]

The connector next to the volume control is for an optional counting
meter. Probably total play if I recall correctly...

[timo heskes]

i found a counter on the doorpanel.
need to check if it is connected than.

can you also tell my why i have on my unit small chips in the socket and the big one's are empty.
on the pictures here:
http://www.evolvestudios.com/pinball/avenger/album1/
i see the opposite way

[John Robertson]

Some games used the PROMs (the small chips) and some used ROMs (the big
chips).

It really doesn't matter if the game is working. If it isn't working
then you need to figure out where the problem is.

There is a flow chart floating around somewhere for troubleshooting
Atari pinballs - find it.

I haven't time to do it for you as I have to make money at some point to
keep the shop doors open.

[timo heskes]

i have found the troubleshoot manual. but did not have time to print it out.
and it sucks to check it on a computer.
and i think it is very hard for you to do it for me because you need to go to the netherlands than :P

but thanks for the time you take already to help me