Pinbot ball lock bounce-outs

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beaver

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May 31, 2007, 10:24:50 AM5/31/07
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On my Pinbot/Pin*bot, it is extremely difficult to lock the balls. A
direct hit from the flippers is almost guaranteed to bounce right back
out. You need to ricochet the ball off something before it enters the
ball lock for any kind of success. I have not torn this machine down
to do a complete restoration yet, but with a pinball party next week,
I want to fix just this part for now.

I will work on it this weekend, but before I start, I just wanted to
know if anyone has any tips. I have been rather successful with
addressing this problem on my IJ and MM with various adjustments and
foam padding, and will probably apply similar techniques.

Edward Cheung CARGPB26

Kansas Pinball

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May 31, 2007, 10:46:08 AM5/31/07
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Yeah, I was reading it thinking how you were the king of coming up
with solutions. I started thinking immediately of the Merlin solution
where you or someone else came up with a foam piece that absorbed the
impact. I have never had a problem with mine having a bounce-out so
perhaps there is something else going on in there. But, since the
party is looming, I would bet some thin foam would do the trick based
one what you and others have done.

Good luck with the party!

Doug
CARGPB #32

frenchy

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May 31, 2007, 11:11:57 AM5/31/07
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I just bought a Jackbot that has the modified locks but I haven't
looked at them to see how they almost eliminated bounce outs. But an
old post by Williams's Larry DeMar said that the ball guide and
backing plate can be relocated rearward to fix the problem, by
observing how the ball is landing back there and adjusting the
positioning as required. Don't know if that's what they did on
Jackbot but I think it was something more elaborate than that.
Ldnayman could chime in here (Jackbot expert extraodinairre.)


frenchy

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May 31, 2007, 11:17:39 AM5/31/07
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Additional help can be putting a layer of adhesive felt on the backing
plate to absorb energy. On LOTR I even tried putting a thin layer of
gel material (stuff in mousepads) between the mounting plate and the
playfield before it's screwed back on... till I figured out that just
removing that nylon post behind the hole makes if 100% reliable.
Never have figured out what the hell that post was supposed to be
there for.

someotherguy

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May 31, 2007, 12:11:35 PM5/31/07
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Hey Ed,

How's the wood at the leading edge of the saucers? Worn? That'll
contribute to bounce-outs a lot. Also, are the plastic saucers
themselves broken in any way - my old ones had the two slats broken
off, and one actually had a hole in it. While I think the purpose of
the slats is to just hold the ball square for the eject kicker, they
might also help stop the ball as it lands in the saucer.

On my old Pinbot playfield, shots would bounce out all the time. On
my new one with new saucers, no wear at all (NOS field), and clearcoat
so it's moving crazy fast, I never, repeat never, have bounce-outs
from the saucers.

Richard

Cliffy

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May 31, 2007, 12:39:40 PM5/31/07
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Mine doesn't bounce out at all, Ed. Check the backstops. If they are
bent straight up they will just deflect the ball back out. Bend 'em back
down so they scoop the ball.

--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
A passion for pinball!
http://www.passionforpinball.com

beaver

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May 31, 2007, 1:15:39 PM5/31/07
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On May 31, 12:11 pm, someotherguy

<someotherguy@SPAM_SUCKSsomeotherplace.com> wrote:
> Hey Ed,
>
> How's the wood at the leading edge of the saucers? Worn?

Yes(!).

>That'll
> contribute to bounce-outs a lot.

Ok. Some wood epoxy reconstruction may be needed then.

>Also, are the plastic saucers
> themselves broken in any way - my old ones had the two slats broken
> off, and one actually had a hole in it.

No, surprisingly, the saucer and its little tabs are both very new
looking.

>While I think the purpose of
> the slats is to just hold the ball square for the eject kicker, they
> might also help stop the ball as it lands in the saucer.
>
> On my old Pinbot playfield, shots would bounce out all the time. On
> my new one with new saucers, no wear at all (NOS field), and clearcoat
> so it's moving crazy fast, I never, repeat never, have bounce-outs
> from the saucers.

Thanks! A Pinbot that plays like that is hard for me to imagine
8-). We would lock both balls so much quicker!

beaver

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May 31, 2007, 1:18:03 PM5/31/07
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Thanks Cliffy, I have the visor off, and can see both deflectors.
They are both angled down pretty good. In any case, I will be
tinkering with it to understand what is happening, and will remember
your words.

I think Richard's ideas are good too.

Edward Cheung CARGPB26

frenchy

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May 31, 2007, 4:32:32 PM5/31/07
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On May 31, 9:11 am, someotherguy

<someotherguy@SPAM_SUCKSsomeotherplace.com> wrote:
Also, are the plastic saucers> themselves broken in any way - my old
ones had the two slats broken> off, and one actually had a hole in it.
While I think the purpose of> the slats is to just hold the ball
square for the eject kicker, they
> might also help stop the ball as it lands in the saucer.>>

The slats in the hole, and the hole, are plastic? Surprising they
would make something that's getting hammered like that out of
plastic. Was Williams using that on other games?

Cliffy

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May 31, 2007, 5:22:49 PM5/31/07
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Here's a funny thing that may throw you for a loop. My saucers are also
worn at the wood and in fact they were so ratty I used a drum sander in
the Dremel to smooth them out. This removed even more material! I
thought I would have to build them back up with epoxy but no, I didn't.
I did harden the soft wood there with super glue though but never built
them up and they lock every time still. The key for me was the
deflectors. I just bent them down more. This was before Martin
discovered his magical dead drop rubber pad or I would have used that
instead :)

Cliffy

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May 31, 2007, 5:26:23 PM5/31/07
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WMS used the all plastic saucer on every system 11 I ever saw. The
'slats' or nubs as I call 'em are there to hold the ball over the switch
correctly, not for eject guidance. On old Bally's the nubs were metal
and would get bent apart allowing the ball to roll forward off the
switch yet remain in the saucer. This is annoying as hell! I've never
seen a WMS saucer NOT trigger the switch so apparently the plastic is
better... unless they are broken off, of course :)

beaver

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May 31, 2007, 5:35:13 PM5/31/07
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Interesting counter point.

Previously, I had tried some of Martin's foam. However, this hindered
the ball from dropping into the saucer due to the thickness of the
foam. So I figured I had to raise the level of the deflector with
some washer standoffs to compensate.

I will also try and bend the deflectors downward more. Some
experimentation will be needed this weekend.

Edward Cheung CARGPB26

frenchy

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May 31, 2007, 11:00:24 PM5/31/07
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frenchy

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May 31, 2007, 11:07:44 PM5/31/07
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beaver

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Jun 2, 2007, 8:16:34 AM6/2/07
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The ball locks now work! The two repairs that made the difference was
repairing the leading edge, and setting the deflectors higher up.
Thanks for the suggestions Richard, Frenchy, Cliffy, Doug.

write-up here
http://www.edcheung.com/album/album07/Pinball/pinbot.htm#lock

Edward Cheung CARGPB26

Cliffy

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Jun 2, 2007, 12:05:36 PM6/2/07
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Nice job, Ed. Creative as always :)
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