TECH:Data East flipper problem
Dave Whitman
here.
I have a Last Action Hero(no laughing,it's for a customer)that is having
some flipper problems.There isn't any high power to them,just the hold
current.I've checked the EOS switches and they're OK.I'm confused on how
these things work since there only seems to be one winding as opposed to WMS
seperate kick and hold windings.If anybody can tell me the theory of
operation on these things I'd be very appreciative.
Thanks
Dave
Ryan Avery
> Well,I'm not to knowledgable about DE pins,so I thought I'd try posting
> here.
> I have a Last Action Hero(no laughing,it's for a customer)that is having
> some flipper problems.
No laughing. I like DE pinballs for their simple pleasure. Sometimes (not all
the times), it sure beats knowing every little nuance of a rulesheet. Although,
I don't mean they are simple games...
> There isn't any high power to them,just the hold
> current.I've checked the EOS switches and they're OK.I'm confused on how
> these things work since there only seems to be one winding as opposed to WMS
> seperate kick and hold windings.If anybody can tell me the theory of
> operation on these things I'd be very appreciative.
Any DE manual has a solid state flipper theory of operation, but IIRC...
The DE flippers are different since there is only one winding. The whole system
is set on a timer, so that first the high power is activated, and the flipper
board then switches to a lower voltage after a certain millisecond delay which
emulates the hold coil. I'm not sure whether the EOS switch is integral in the
circuit (if they are actually used, like pre-fliptronic WMS flippers, or just
there like in fliptronic flippers). I don't even know if they are supposed to be
normally open or closed (just sold my DE game, so I can't just go get the
manual). However, if the EOS switches are OK (which you stated), then the only
other possibility is that you have some problem with the flipper board, since
that drives the whole flipper system (I don't think the main CPU even "knows"
when a flipper is flipped - they don't have the audits to either prove or
disprove that, however).
> Thanks
> Dave
Hope I could help
--
Ryan Avery
gro...@concentric.net
AOL Instant Messenger: RyanAvery1
Gamester
Dave Whitman <dwhi...@netunlimited.net> wrote in article
<6pm3ab$q07$1...@news.netunlimited.net>...
> Well,I'm not to knowledgable about DE pins,so I thought I'd try posting
> here.
> I have a Last Action Hero(no laughing,it's for a customer)that is having
> some flipper problems.There isn't any high power to them,just the hold
> current.I've checked the EOS switches and they're OK.
There are NO EOS switches. The switch that you see is for lane change
lights or something like that.
I'm confused on how
> these things work since there only seems to be one winding as opposed to
WMS
> seperate kick and hold windings.If anybody can tell me the theory of
> operation on these things I'd be very appreciative.
THEORY, ME?
Well maybe I can splain.
If you open the pin, you will see a small board mounted on the left side of
the cabinet.
This is your "Fliptronics" board. (I think thats the name)
There are a bounch of components on that that have to do with the TIMING.
This board sends the "high power" to energize the coil and then with
perfect time, it cuts the voltage down and the "low power" is in effect.
The common problems that I have found are:
1 - there are 4 fuses on this board. I have found that the fuse CLIPS
weaken and do not grip the fuse(s)
2 - The transistors or scrs on the heat sinks where bad.
3 - SOMETHING ELSE up on the PPB board was bad and did not allow the
proper operation of the flipper board.
Gamester
>
> Thanks
> Dave
>
>
>
c...@my-dejanews.com
>Ryan Avery <gro...@concentric.net> wrote:
>>Dave Whitman wrote:
> > Well,I'm not to knowledgable about DE pins,so I thought I'd try posting
> > here.
> > I have a Last Action Hero(no laughing,it's for a customer)that is having
>
> No laughing. I like DE pinballs for their simple pleasure. Sometimes (not all
> the times), it sure beats knowing every little nuance of a rulesheet.
Although,
> I don't mean they are simple games...
>
> > these things work since there only seems to be one winding as opposed to WMS
> > seperate kick and hold windings.If anybody can tell me the theory of
> > operation on these things I'd be very appreciative.
>
>
> The DE flippers are different since there is only one winding. The whole
system
> is set on a timer, so that first the high power is activated, and the flipper
> board then switches to a lower voltage after a certain millisecond delay which
> emulates the hold coil. I'm not sure whether the EOS switch is integral in the
> circuit (if they are actually used, like pre-fliptronic WMS flippers, or just
> there like in fliptronic flippers). I don't even know if they are supposed to
be
> normally open or closed (just sold my DE game, so I can't just go get the
> manual). However, if the EOS switches are OK (which you stated), then the only
> other possibility is that you have some problem with the flipper board, since
> that drives the whole flipper system (I don't think the main CPU even "knows"
> when a flipper is flipped - they don't have the audits to either prove or
> disprove that, however).
>
> > Thanks
> > Dave
>
> Hope I could help
>
> --
> Ryan Avery
at some point DE went back to the "conventional" two windings per
flipper coil, a la williams. i believe this happened in 1993, about
when your LAH was made. so it may indeed have an EOS...
but anyway, there is a PC board in the bottom cabinet that controls
the flippers. it's bolted to the inside left side of the cabinet
usually. there are TWO transistors that control each flipper: a TIP36
for the high powered side, and a TIP102 (i believe) for the low
powered side. i had the same problem as above once; it was because
from lifting and lowering the playfield, somehow the TIP36 got
bent and broke a leg. replacing the TIP36 fixed the problem.
the TIP36 could also just be bad. or the connectors going to the
board or to the coil itself. coils generally don't go bad on games
from this era. but sometimes the winding breaks where it connects
to the lug on the coil. check that too. you can then unwrap a
single turn, sand off the enamel insulation, and resolder the lead
back on. remember, the THICK wire is the high power winding. and
both the low and high powered winding terminate on the center lug
of the coil, and the other leads go to the two outside lugs.
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Ray Johnson
>
> Well,I'm not to knowledgable about DE pins,so I thought I'd try posting
> here.
> I have a Last Action Hero(no laughing,it's for a customer)that is having
> current.I've checked the EOS switches and they're OK.I'm confused on how
> these things work since there only seems to be one winding as opposed to WMS
> seperate kick and hold windings.If anybody can tell me the theory of
> operation on these things I'd be very appreciative.
There's actually a very nice write-up on the Theory of Operation for
these solid-state flippers in your game's schematics- one of the pages
right before or after the schematic for the solid state flipper board.
Very definitely worth reading.
In short, when you press a flipper button switch, the game sends high DC
current through the coil for an instant, then shuts it off and runs
about 9 volts AC current through to hold the flipper up. Really a neat
setup, and when you've gotten familliar with the circuitry, their not
too hard to repair or troubleshoot.
Check all your fuses first on the solid state flipper board. If ok,
check your main solenoid power fuse in the backbox (5 amp), and then any
secondary solenoid power fuses on the PPB board. The DC power for the
pull current on the flippers comes from standard coil supply voltage
which is up in the backbox- not on the SS flipper board. The 9VAC does
come from the SS flipper board, so each current has a different source-
this isn't real apparent unless you've backtracked your way through the
schematics.
Another thing to watch out for with DE solid-state flippers, is a
flipper coil staying energized (won't come back down after button is
released). This can be due to a bad (open) or broken diode on the
flipper coil. Any guesses on how long it took me to find this one?
Sheesh!
Hope that helps!
--
Ray Johnson
Salt Lake City, Utah
PF98: "Herb?"
Flipcityby
>If you open the pin, you will see a small board mounted on the left side of
>the cabinet.
>This is your "Fliptronics" board. (I think thats the name)
>
>There are a bounch of components on that that have to do with the TIMING.
>This board sends the "high power" to energize the coil and then with
>perfect time, it cuts the voltage down and the "low power" is in effect.
>
>The common problems that I have found are:
>
>1 - there are 4 fuses on this board. I have found that the fuse CLIPS
>weaken and do not grip the fuse(s)
>2 - The transistors or scrs on the heat sinks where bad.
>3 - SOMETHING ELSE up on the PPB board was bad and did not allow the
>proper operation of the flipper board.
>
>Gamester
>
>
i wonder if theres a way to weaken the flippers.......the flips are so strong
on those games that it busts up the plastics.......Carrol
Flipc...@aol.com
Gregg Woodcock
: i wonder if theres a way to weaken the flippers.......the flips are so strong
: on those games that it busts up the plastics.......Carrol
Take a bad coil (you don't actually throw them out do you?) and
unwinde about 25 turns and clip it off. Check with a meter to make
sure it is not open-circuit and visually inspect to make sure it is
not de-insulated (short-circuit) anywhere. Add this 25 turns to the
coil in your game a viola! A noticeably weaker coil.
--
THANX...Gregg day 972.684.7380 night UNLIST/PUBL TEXAS NOT CANADA!
wood...@nortel.com or wood...@fastlane.net
*CLASSIC VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR BUY/SELL/TRADE NON-COMPUTER (ARCADE/HOME)*
"If you quote me on this I'll have to deny it; I won't remember because
I have such a bad memory. Not only that, but my memory is *terrible*."
All
Flipcityby wrote in message
>
>i wonder if theres a way to weaken the flippers.......the flips are so
strong
>on those games that it busts up the plastics
In my DE game... TMNT....one of the user adjustments is the coil strength.
There are 3 power settings ..low,regular and high. The high really zings
the ball around but I don't leave it there often for the same reason.
.....Ken W.