Using (and selling?) pinball art and the use of machine names, etc?
Jediturtle
I have a number of ideas in my head to create unique products
utilizing artwork from pins. Does anyone know the legal requirements,
if any, related to selling items like this. I know some of the newer
pins, such as POTC or Spiderman would most likely be protected, but
are there any regulations related to using artwork from older machines
from now-defunct companies? Like as an example, if someone were to
make say a painting of the Black Knight backglass art, could you
legally sell it, or would that be a trademark violation of some sort?
Similarly I have ideas for a number of unique decorative "mods" for
certain machines. If these mods would include either the name of the
machine, or artwork based on the existing artwork, would that be OK,
or could that be protected? For example, say someone made flipper
bats that said "Black Knight" on them, would that be OK, or no?
I know reproducing actual parts, playfields, BGs, etc may be
protected, but not sure about things that never existed before, but
utilize existing art and/or names, etc. I also know I can do whatever
I want for personal use, but it's selling the stuff that could
complicate things.
I know obviously the best bet would be to consult a lawyer on these
matters (if I get serious about selling), but I figured I would run it
past you guys and see what you think. Sorry to be so vague about what
I'm actually thinking (and no...the examples listed are not what I'm
actually thinking), but I want to keep what few good ideas I have to
myself until they are fleshed out and ready to be shown. :)
Thanks much,
Chris
ldnayman
All I can tell you is your best bet is to go with Gottlieb. Dealing
with the people who appear to be in control of Wms/Bally is going to
be ridiculous pain in the ass. Vintage gottlieb is easy to deal with.
Matt McKee
to have a very strong case that what you have is an original artwork.
If you take something that exists and alter it, it can be argued to be
an original piece of art. What you can't do is create a "copy" or
derivative work.
Your idea to "consult a lawyer"- paying for legal advise, good advise
and from a good layer, still might not hold up in court. Laws are
complicated and are interpreted differently. That's what court is all
about.
When you talk about artwork there is a definite gray area. What can
happen is someone can posture having more recourses and scare you into
changing your behavior.
Matt
Herb Schanke
Another thing to consider is that even if the lawyer says you're OK,
are you willing (and able to afford) to defend you're position in
court if somebody sues to stop you.
Herb Schanke
David Gersic
> I have a number of ideas in my head to create unique products
> utilizing artwork from pins.
If you're using somebody else's artwork, start by reading:
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html
> Does anyone know the legal requirements,
> if any, related to selling items like this. I know some of the newer
> pins, such as POTC or Spiderman would most likely be protected, but
> are there any regulations related to using artwork from older machines
> from now-defunct companies?
Age of the work is one consideration. For something that has a "licensed"
image on it, you will need to work with the artwork owner, the license
owner, and probably a few more lawyers as well.
> Like as an example, if someone were to
> make say a painting of the Black Knight backglass art, could you
> legally sell it, or would that be a trademark violation of some sort?
Trademark: yep, probably so. It's got "Williams" on it, afterall.
Copyright: yep, this too.
> Similarly I have ideas for a number of unique decorative "mods" for
> certain machines. If these mods would include either the name of the
> machine, or artwork based on the existing artwork, would that be OK,
> or could that be protected? For example, say someone made flipper
> bats that said "Black Knight" on them, would that be OK, or no?
Read the copyright FAQ above. You might want:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/tmfaq.htm
as well, for coverage of Trademarks.
> I know reproducing actual parts, playfields, BGs, etc may be
> protected, but not sure about things that never existed before, but
> utilize existing art and/or names, etc.
It's really not that complicated. If you're using their artwork, it's
likely that you're going to need to talk to them about it, get a license
(which may involve paying a fee, or a percentage of your profits, or
whatever else makes the deal worth doing for them, and for you), etc..
> I know obviously the best bet would be to consult a lawyer on these
> matters
Yup. I am not a lawyer. You want proper legal advice, hire a lawyer that
specializes in copyright / trademark / intellectual property and get
their advice.
--
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Jediturtle
of grey area on this subject. This isn't something I'm looking to get
rich off of, or even start a business from. Just thinking of making
some cool stuff to offer on here, maybe take to a few shows, and
possibly ebay. I'm thinking something similar to how you see people
at car shows selling cool artwork or tee-shirts of different cars and
stuff like that. I can't believe that all these guys get permission
to use these images and trademarks (Chevy symbols, the word "Mustang",
the Jeep grill, etc). Maybe they are just playing with fire, but who
knows. I can't imagine these companies going after a little guy
selling a few items here and there. Would whoever owns the Williams
licensing really get upset over someone selling a tee-shirt with the
Black Knight backglass image on it? Maybe if it were thousands sold
at Wal-Mart, but realistically if it's a few sold at a pinball show?
Again, that's not what I'm thinking of doing, but a good example.
Either way I think I'll try to mostly stick to more generic themes and
see how that goes. Sounds the safest all around. I've got some great
ideas that I'd love to offer you guys though...but I have no intention
of spending hundreds or thousands of dollars on lawyer fees and
trademark or copyright rights to do it.