Medievia banned from Top Mud Sites
KaVir
Medievia from it's listings, after Vryce failed to answer a series of
questions which were presented to him (he said he would only do it if
the owner of Top Mud Sites first signed a nondisclosure agreement).
It is good to see that more and more people are standing up for the Mud
Community as a whole.
KaVir.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Simon
>
> Top Mud Sites has now followed the MudCenter's lead and removed
> Medievia from it's listings, after Vryce failed to answer a series of
> questions which were presented to him (he said he would only do it if
> the owner of Top Mud Sites first signed a nondisclosure agreement).
*LOL* Why would the owner of Top Mud Sites have to sign a nondisclosure
agreement for any possible set of answers to those questions, unless he
was scared that it could be used as more evidence against him. The ONLY
explanation is that it would be more fuel for the fire burning under
Medthievia. It would also be more concrete evidence that Medthievia is
breaking the law. Of course he wouldn't want this disclosed.
Any other possible explanations would be greatly appreciated :-). Please
note that I've already discounted intellectual property and
trade-secrets due to the fact that none of the questions in the e-mail
had answers which could possibly reveal any of these - they are mostly
yes/no questions confirming or denying the facts we already have, or
correcting the facts we have if we are wrong.
> [snip rest]
Simon.
KaVir
Simon <fila...@freemail.REMOVE.THIS.BIT.gr> wrote:
> KaVir wrote:
> >
> > Top Mud Sites has now followed the MudCenter's lead and removed
> > Medievia from it's listings, after Vryce failed to answer a series
of
> > questions which were presented to him (he said he would only do it
if
> > the owner of Top Mud Sites first signed a nondisclosure agreement).
>
> *LOL* Why would the owner of Top Mud Sites have to sign a
> nondisclosure agreement for any possible set of answers to those
> questions, unless he was scared that it could be used as more
> evidence against him. The ONLY explanation is that it would be more
> fuel for the fire burning under Medthievia. It would also be more
> concrete evidence that Medthievia is breaking the law. Of course he
> wouldn't want this disclosed.
I suspect it's more than just breaking the Diku license - from the
information I've been collecting from ex-Medievia players and staff
members it appears that Vryce is making a HUGE amount of money from
Medievia...now considering the donations go directly into his pocket,
what do you think the chances are of him paying tax on them?
> Any other possible explanations would be greatly appreciated :-).
> Please note that I've already discounted intellectual property and
> trade-secrets due to the fact that none of the questions in the e-mail
> had answers which could possibly reveal any of these - they are mostly
> yes/no questions confirming or denying the facts we already have, or
> correcting the facts we have if we are wrong.
For those who haven't seem them, here are the questions that were
presented to Vryce (there were some others, but they weren't considered
appropriate ;)
HISTORY OF MEDIEVIA
1. Was the original Medievia concept by Michael A. Smith? Y/N
If "N", please state who created the original concept.
2. Was the original Medievia mud based upon Merc 1.0? Y/N
If "N", please state what codebase it was based upon.
3. Did Medievia first go online in in Feburary 1993? Y/N
If "N", please state the correct date.
4. Did Medievia first open to the public on April 1st 1993? Y/N
If "N", please state the correct date.
5. Were you, Michael A. Krause, dismissed from Medievia in late 1993?
Y/N
If "N", please explain the advert posted Tue, 21 Sep 93 02:13:38
EDT at "http://www.e-rpg.com/resources/mud_encyclo1.txt".
If "Y", please explain how it is that you are running the mud today.
MEDIEVIA IV
1. Did Medievia IV originally open to the public in February 1996? Y/N
If "N" please explain the 1996 date in the "How Medievia Got
Started" section of the Medievia website
(http://www.medievia.com/start.html) and specify the correct date.
If "Y" please explain the 1994 date in your bio on the Medievia
website (http://www.medievia.com/vrycebio.html).
2. Was the source code placed on the anti-medievia.webjump.com website a
copy of Medievia 4.1? Y/N
If "N" please specify what code it is and why it contains numerous
features that are specific to Medievia IV.
If "Y" please explain the presence of comments inside the
code which contain the names of two of the original Merc authors.
3. Are you the same Michael A. Krause who sent the fax to theglobe.com
asking them to remove the Medievia IV code
(www.kavir.dial.pipex.com/med/fax1.jpg)? Y/N
If "N" theglobe.com will be contacted so that the issue can be
resolved, as the fax was signed as being correct, under penalty of
perjury.
4. Was the Medievia source code which was placed on the Anti-Medievia
website (anti-medievia.webjump.com) a derivative of Merc, which is a
derivative of Diku? Y/N
If "N" please explain the similarities between the Medievia code
and Merc code on KaVir's website (www.kavir.dial.pipex/med.html).
5. Did you at any point scrap the old Medievia code and start
completely from scratch? Y/N
If "Y" please specify the date you did this and the version number
of the first scratch-written version Medievia.
DONATIONS
1. Have any of the Medievia donations gone towards non-Medievia related
use? Y/N
ACTION
1. Are you prepared to allow a neutral third party to examine the
Medievia code in order to verify whether or not it is based upon
Merc/Diku? Y/N
If "N", please explain why not.
2. Are you prepared to make the Medievia business records along with
audited profit and loss accounts, with details of expenditure,
available for scrutiny? Y/N
If "N", please explain why not.
3. Will you restore the Diku credits and copyright notices? Y/N
If "N", please explain why not.
4. Will you stop taking donations from Medievia players? Y/N
If "N", please explain why not.
5. Are you prepared to give a public apology for your actions? Y/N
If "N", please explain why not.
MISCELLANEOUS
1. Do you give (or have you ever given) players in-game benefits for
writing positive reviews for Medievia? Y/N
2. Do you give (or have you ever given) players in-game benefits for
voting for Medievia on mud-related websites such as Top Mud Sites? Y/N
3. Does Medievia have (or has it ever had) "double experience point
days" when it wins a voting poll? Y/N
4. Have you ever (either directly or indirectly) told the Medievia
players or staff to "vote out" a bad review? Y/N
5. Does Medievia contain any areas that were originally from Diku or
Merc (a "revamped" or "redone" area still counts as "yes")? Y/N
Fredrik Lännergren
Simon wrote in message <39B79D02...@freemail.REMOVE.THIS.BIT.gr>...
*snip*
>*LOL* Why would the owner of Top Mud Sites have to sign a nondisclosure
>agreement for any possible set of answers to those questions, unless he
>was scared that it could be used as more evidence against him. The ONLY
>explanation is that it would be more fuel for the fire burning under
>Medthievia. It would also be more concrete evidence that Medthievia is
>breaking the law. Of course he wouldn't want this disclosed.
>
>Any other possible explanations would be greatly appreciated :-).
Well...I'm sort of hard pressed to find anything reasonable, myself...
But here goes...most is based on some possible sort of fear. Strong emotion,
that.
It might be that he doesn't have such great control over the money he
receives, and doesn't want to admit that. Lord knows I never keep books on
my own incomes...
It might be that he feels it's nobody's business but his own, and that other
people except those whose cooperation he might benefit from shouldn't have
anything to do with this. Cause let's face it...I very much doubt a
published reply from mr Krause would -not- fuel a flame war against him and
his spouse, pet, trashcan, game, car, lawn, house, personality etc, given
some peoples sentiments...regardless of the contents in that reply.
It might be that he believes that people will realize just how profitable it
is to start a brand new codebase (remember the assumptions about these
musings: "innocent") and will begin competing seriously with him.
It might be that he doesn't want to show to -anyone- (including those
"auditers", with or without NDA's) the contents of his code cause he knows
it's not so hot at places...Wonder why I thought of that... *cough+halo*
And, most important of all, it might be that he's not really from Earth at
all and has a logic far different from mine!
Uh...well, that's what I could come up with. Feel free to add to the list...
/Fredrik
Sarenthalanos
"KaVir" <ka...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8p7lac$vmd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Top Mud Sites has now followed the MudCenter's lead and removed
> Medievia from it's listings, after Vryce failed to answer a series of
> questions which were presented to him (he said he would only do it if
> the owner of Top Mud Sites first signed a nondisclosure agreement).
>
> It is good to see that more and more people are standing up for the Mud
> Community as a whole.
>
> KaVir.
Ah...fear, Vryce knows thy name.
I wonder why.
Because he won't truthfully answer those questions, or perhaps cannot keep
and sense of credibility if he did answer them truthfully.
I seriously wonder if the IRS also knows.
Oh, and for you that are not native to the United States, the IRS are
perhaps the nastiest breed of vampire out there. Yes, even worse than
corporate lawyers, and in the day, worse than the people from the Draft
Board. I know this, my next door neighbor is and IRS 'employee', and he
told me such! :-)
(And I think he's proud of that fact, possibly)
Hey, Vryce, I bet I know a word that'll strike fear into your heart.....
"Audit".
:-)
-Sarenthalanos
Russ Taylor
<fila...@freemail.REMOVE.THIS.BIT.gr> wrote:
> *LOL* Why would the owner of Top Mud Sites have to sign a nondisclosure
> agreement for any possible set of answers to those questions, unless he
> was scared that it could be used as more evidence against him. The ONLY
> explanation is that it would be more fuel for the fire burning under
> Medthievia. It would also be more concrete evidence that Medthievia is
> breaking the law. Of course he wouldn't want this disclosed.
One reason would be so that he could lie, and not risk having the
information get cross-checked.
Aristotle
>Hey, Vryce, I bet I know a word that'll strike fear into your heart.....
>
>"Audit".
I wonder why people assume he doesn't pay taxes? He might not, but that would
be pretty stupid. Considering the huge amount of money that is obviously
piling up, only a fool wouldn't pay taxes on it. The remainder would still be
prodigious.
-Aristotle@Threshold
--
VISIT THRESHOLD - Online Roleplaying at its Finest. Player run clans, guilds,
legal system, economy, religions, nobility, and more in a world where roleplay
is required! Roleplay online with thousands of people from all over the world.
http://www.thresholdrpg.com -**- telnet://thresholdrpg.com:23
Sarenthalanos
"Aristotle" <thre...@threshold-rpg.com> wrote in message
news:ErVt5.68454$yT4.7...@news-east.usenetserver.com...
> In article <Z4Tt5.1744$4s.2...@news1.onlynews.com>, "Sarenthalanos"
<Sarent...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Hey, Vryce, I bet I know a word that'll strike fear into your heart.....
> >
> >"Audit".
>
> I wonder why people assume he doesn't pay taxes? He might not, but that
would
> be pretty stupid. Considering the huge amount of money that is obviously
> piling up, only a fool wouldn't pay taxes on it. The remainder would still
be
> prodigious.
>
Actually, I was also referring as to HOW he makes his income as well.
Is it counted as business profits, or a free donations to him?
It bears looking into.
-Sarenthalanos
Aristotle
>Actually, I was also referring as to HOW he makes his income as well.
>Is it counted as business profits, or a free donations to him?
It doesn't really matter. Income is income. If you total it into your total
income, and pay taxes on it, you're fine. He claims Medievia is a corporation,
and if its a C corp then he would have to pay corporate tax as well, but most
likely he would just make it an S corp and then all assets flow to the stock
holders (which he is probably a 100% stockholder). In that situation, the
income is just like any other income.
>It bears looking into.
Not really. You'd just waste your time and accomplish nothing. Further, by
wasting your time, you'd probably end up even more frustrated by the whole
nasty situation.
appla...@my-deja.com
"Sarenthalanos" <Sarent...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
As much as you want to cry audit and hope it drives Mike into a series
of hives, do you honestly think he'd have checks/money orders/etc made
payable to Medievia if he was worried about an audit? My guess is he's
pretty prepared for one as his donations aren't demanded to be made
payable to 'cash' or sent in 'cash' only.
Yea, Audit must make him shake :p
I've read through a ton of posts here so forgive me very humbly if I'm
posting this comment in the wrong area. Someone said 90% of Med has
donation items. Hmm, I'm sure that number is off. I had a clan of 51
people and half of them didn't have donation items or only had one/two
pieces. Ok lets say... 1000 people donate for a full set. Roughly
$350/set. $350k right? Let me break it down a little better. Vryce and
Soleil give away a ton of free donation eq each year as well to Gods,
people who help with the website, etc. Tons of way to earn free gear.
Vryce himself gives away gear once in awhile, and a whole set at that.
If you play the game a fair amt you notice about 500 people are online
at the same time. Usually, its the same 500 or roughly the same people
every day. These people have already donated, some years ago. Do you
honestly think his pockets are just overflowing with cash? 4 pieces of
gear you can buy is permanent. When Bloodline Characters came out (When
you reach highest lvl you can have children .. etc) they offered to
switch donation gear between characters for free.. no limit to items.
Hence you didnt have to spend another couple hundred bucks. Discounts
are offered when you renew items as well. Alot of people took advantage
of this before it was ceased. If Mike was so concerned about profiting
from every player, he wouldnt give shit away for free, at all. He'd be
rubbing his hands together screaming money to himself in his sleep if
thats all he cared about.
This is prolly my first and last post here as Im sure Ill get slammed
by some of you, which is cool, feel free to email me. Ive played Med
for 4 yrs (and No Im not hiding my name.. this is the one I primarily
use on Med) but in the time Ive met Mike and Dianne they just want
people to have fun. Diku, blah blah blah, god. Yea I know, if he stole
it hes wrong etc. Things in today's society are usually always derived
from something else.. Music, Games, Movies, Books... most of popular
Media the author got the idea or influenced by another. For 10 yrs
people have come to Med to escape whatever, have fun and meet new
people.
There is s saying, which Im sure you can finish in your head, 'if you
love something let it go.. if it comes back to you, it was yours.. if
not.. it was never yours to begin with'. Now Im not saying the original
authors should just be like ok fine he uses a part of our code let him
have it but what I am saying is Med has brought together hundreds of
people this past decade and will continue on for many more to come.
Maybe some of you Med Haters had a bad experience on the game, died
repeatedly and are just so damned mad about it you sit here all day and
whine about the game. You even create websites devoted to it.
Congrats!! It brings us more players to win over.
Begin Medievia for a week and stay for years. Youre giving the avenue
for people to travel upon and visit Med. They get hooked and they are
there forever. Good job :) Helping newbies is my job on Med and I love
it, so bring on more!!!!!
Applaedesia.
Carrie Niemi
Lee
> I've read through a ton of posts here so forgive me very humbly if I'm
> posting this comment in the wrong area. Someone said 90% of Med has
> donation items. Hmm, I'm sure that number is off. I had a clan of 51
> people and half of them didn't have donation items or only had one/two
something like 18000 active players? Hardly a good random sample of a pool
of 18000.
> pieces. Ok lets say... 1000 people donate for a full set. Roughly
> $350/set. $350k right? Let me break it down a little better. Vryce and
> Soleil give away a ton of free donation eq each year as well to Gods,
> people who help with the website, etc. Tons of way to earn free gear.
> Vryce himself gives away gear once in awhile, and a whole set at that.
Free gear != cost.
> If you play the game a fair amt you notice about 500 people are online
> at the same time. Usually, its the same 500 or roughly the same people
> every day. These people have already donated, some years ago. Do you
> honestly think his pockets are just overflowing with cash? 4 pieces of
I think so, he seems to be doing well.
> gear you can buy is permanent. When Bloodline Characters came out (When
> you reach highest lvl you can have children .. etc) they offered to
> switch donation gear between characters for free.. no limit to items.
So? A free service. Hotmail's a free service, but guess what that does? It
drives MORE traffic to MSN. Just like making new chars drives more traffic
to Med hopefully causing someone to buy a new item.
> Hence you didnt have to spend another couple hundred bucks. Discounts
> are offered when you renew items as well. Alot of people took advantage
Discounts. So? Nordstrom's offers discounts. They want to make money too.
Discounts attract customers.
It's called MARKETING.
> of this before it was ceased. If Mike was so concerned about profiting
> from every player, he wouldnt give shit away for free, at all. He'd be
> rubbing his hands together screaming money to himself in his sleep if
> thats all he cared about.
Uh... Apparently you don't have any idea about business, marketing, and PR.
Giving things away at 0 cost keeps current customers and attracts new ones
_at no cost_. He's actually rubbing his hands even more by doing this. For
example, buy 1 get 1 free. That's everywhere, you don't think those retail
stores don't care about money do you? They want money, but free stuff
attracts people. By attracting more people/keeping his current playerbase
there's an increased possibility that someone buys something, which means
more money.
[snip]
> it hes wrong etc. Things in today's society are usually always derived
> from something else.. Music, Games, Movies, Books... most of popular
> Media the author got the idea or influenced by another. For 10 yrs
> people have come to Med to escape whatever, have fun and meet new
> people.
You schmuck! Derived in terms of Medthievia == using DIKU/Merc code. Derived
in terms of pop culture/today's society == using the same ideas over and
over again. You can copy/derive ideas. You cannot use derived DIKU code to
make money.
> There is s saying, which Im sure you can finish in your head, 'if you
> love something let it go.. if it comes back to you, it was yours.. if
> not.. it was never yours to begin with'. Now Im not saying the original
> authors should just be like ok fine he uses a part of our code let him
> have it but what I am saying is Med has brought together hundreds of
> people this past decade and will continue on for many more to come.
So it's okay? Hey, here's another similar example: Dynamite.
Maybe he did create lots of friendships and stuff. But at what price? He
_stole_. He could have easily done the same with custom code if he's such a
"smaerties programmar man" (in the words of Jeff K.). It's not an excuse.
It's like saying:
John Q. Public plagiarized Windows and called it "FreeWin" And everyone used
it and brought lots of new PC users together. Does that mean it's okay that
he stole software? NO.
> Maybe some of you Med Haters had a bad experience on the game, died
> repeatedly and are just so damned mad about it you sit here all day and
> whine about the game. You even create websites devoted to it.
> Congrats!! It brings us more players to win over.
>
> Begin Medievia for a week and stay for years. Youre giving the avenue
> for people to travel upon and visit Med. They get hooked and they are
> there forever. Good job :) Helping newbies is my job on Med and I love
> it, so bring on more!!!!!
Woah, that was so Vryce sounding at the end there.
[snip]
Lee
Fallen
Where do they find these people?
Fallen.
missa...@my-deja.com
appla...@my-deja.com wrote:
[snip a ton of pre-quotes]
>
> Yea, Audit must make him shake :p
organization (which you'd be hard pressed to prove they are, love), and
am aware of at least 5 changes in ownership during the history of the
game (Mike Smith -> Mike Krause -> Mike Krause & Shalafi -> Mike Krause
-> Mike Krause & Ozymandias), it might give him the shivers. Medievia
is (suposedly) a corporation, which means that they (should) have
papers on file somewhere (presumably Pennsylvania) as to whom the
owners are, how profits are handled, and the like. How would you, as a
player, feel, if you knew that Mike Krause had "bought out" Shalafi
(who was listed as co-owner on wizlist a few years ago) with your
donation money?
It all comes down to semantics; to me, a donation is something you give
to a charity, not a corporation-owned game. With the $50 you spent for
100hp/7dr, you could have provided Sally Struthers with enough cash to
feed a starving child in a third world country for MONTHS. That's
neither here nor there however, as I'm sure you give to United Way or
something to salve your consious.
[snip speculation as to numbers]
As far as I've seen (rgmd, TMC & TMS discussion boards), everyone who
has posted possible income numbers for Medievia donations has admitted
their numbers are SPECULATION. Yes, there are different ways to get
donation items - if you're halfway literate, you'll get a full set for
free before too long. Given the state of the internet (and internet
gaming in particular), I don't believe that most players will take the
time or the effort to produce something legible and usable for
Medievia's newspaper, web page, or zones. Most people are more than
willing to just save a few bucks (since they're playing Medievia all
the time, the money spent on other forms of entertainment surely
dwindles) and send that on with a glowing letter about how much they
love the game (in hopes of getting a free Dragon Crystal (valued at
$25!)) for kissing ass well.
>Ive played Med
> for 4 yrs (and No Im not hiding my name.. this is the one I primarily
> use on Med) but in the time Ive met Mike and Dianne they just want
> people to have fun.
I played for a long time as well (and you couldn't pry my name out of
me with a crowbar, I don't need that kind of hassle), and while Mike's
intentions are good, his motivation is not. Intentions: provide a fun
game where people have a good time. Motivation: use other people's
work to fill out the game, remove any credits, then bribe players with
stats and special abilities.
>Diku, blah blah blah, god. Yea I know, if he stole
> it hes wrong etc. Things in today's society are usually always derived
> from something else.. Music, Games, Movies, Books... most of popular
> Media the author got the idea or influenced by another.
You're rather offhand about this, after saying you've followed the
discussion and debate closely. Have you examined any of the evidence?
Omawarisan has, and he's made his stance known. Thranz has (at the
source), and he's made his findings known. Omawarisan was a god when I
played - he was most likely the most productive quest god Medievia ever
had, or ever will have (most quest scripts in use now are Oma's, or
built from Oma's). Oma's mort was very kind and polite, an Avatar
before they had such a thing. I knew him as a mortal, and I knew him
as a god - I would (and did) trust him with anything as far as Medievia
went. I see no reason to distrust him. I never had the privilidge of
meeting Thranz (I quit before he became a god), but nothing I've seen
of him here leads me to believe that he's lying or making things up
just to cause trouble. Both of these people have stated that they
still think Medievia THE GAME is a good game, but they disagree with
the ethics of the administration.
>For 10 yrs
> people have come to Med to escape whatever, have fun and meet new
> people.
That's another point of debate =P Where are you getting "founded in
1990" from?
> There is s saying, which Im sure you can finish in your head, 'if you
> love something let it go.. if it comes back to you, it was yours.. if
> not.. it was never yours to begin with'. Now Im not saying the
original
> authors should just be like ok fine he uses a part of our code let him
> have it but what I am saying is Med has brought together hundreds of
> people this past decade and will continue on for many more to come.
Cocaine has brought hundreds of people together this past decade as
well - however, it's still illegal. Just because it's fun and makes
you feel good doesn't mean it's ok. You're trying to justify eating an
apple by saying the smell of the orange makes up for it. The apple (in
this case, code from the DIKU & Merc teams) isn't yours. The orange
(the fun your players have, and the fact that they mostly don't seem to
care who wrote what) does not justify denying credit where it's due.
Quite frankly, "I'm having fun, so it doesn't matter ... and if the
author had a problem with it, then they need to do something about it"
stinks like a week-old diaper. If you want to get philosiphical about
it, here's another quote refferance (which has already been used in
this discussion): If no one speaks up for the coders, who's going to
be left to speak up for you?
> Maybe some of you Med Haters had a bad experience on the game, died
> repeatedly and are just so damned mad about it you sit here all day
and
> whine about the game. You even create websites devoted to it.
> Congrats!! It brings us more players to win over.
I had mostly good experiences on the game. During my entire playtime,
I was cpk'd once, and once only - and the loot was given back. Do I
sit here all day and whine about the game? No. I do make exceptions
though. However, I also knew, after the first year or so, that there
was code in use that wasn't being properly credited. Did this stop me
from having fun? Only when debates like this popped up, and made me
feel guilty about my lack of ethics. What changed? Well, I played
another game for a while, and watched how they treated their players.
Then I thought about it - really thought about it. If the
administration is doing something ethically wrong in one area, chances
are they are doing the same in other areas as well.
> Begin Medievia for a week and stay for years. Youre giving the avenue
> for people to travel upon and visit Med. They get hooked and they are
> there forever. Good job :) Helping newbies is my job on Med and I love
> it, so bring on more!!!!!
Been there, done that, not going to do it again. If people read
through these debates, and form the conclusion that Medievia is "their
kinda game", so be it. Chances are, most MUDs wouldn't want those
players anyway. And I thought your job on Medievia was getting CPK'd
by LoSK and being cutesy for Fate? (Low blow, admittedly, but you seem
to classify all of the opposing camp as losers anyway, so welcome to
the company.)
> Applaedesia.
> Carrie Niemi
Most of your arguments seem to center around semantics, and your
personal code of ethics. Pointing to a recent "trial" in American
history, I compare your justifications to the fine line between the
definition of "sex" and "oral sex". Lying is lying, and no ammount of
talking about it is going to change the fact that it's wrong.
Butt Ko Witz
You said, and I paraphrase, that Mike's (and Soliel's) main theme is
bring fun to players. True, this is also the case for _any_ god,
avatar, and players on Medievia. It's almost all about fun.
Do you also not think that the creators of what is the BASE of
Medievia's code, the Diku and Merc authors also created their work for
the fun of many? And this work, which powers Medievia, has created a
fun environment for many many MANY more people than Medievia alone?
Do you think it's right of Mike Krause to take this work (Diku/Merc),
remove all credits of and about the original authors, who worked long
and hard to bring fun to the mudding community? Do you think it's
right of Mike Krause to claim this work as his own, replacing former
copyrights with his own claims of authorship/ownership/copyright? Do
you think it right of Mike Krause to accept donations goes against the
lawful stipulations in the original copyrights of the Diku/Merc code?
Do you think it right of Mike Krause to hide, lie about, and deny any
inqueries into his copyright infringments?
Nah, you apparently don't. Or you hold _your_ personal entertainment
as more important than ethics, morals, and legalities. And you accept
Mike's seeming mindset of "they (Diku) won't do anything so I'm
jusitied, in my own eyes, in continuing my illegal, unethical,
immoral practices. What's mine is mine. What's your's is mine, and
I'll happily claim it as just that, MINE."
As I've said before, I'm all for making a dollar. I'm a proud money
making capitalistic citizen of the world's largest free market
society. And I think Mike's system of Donation items is a fine
system. He offers FREE game play. "Donating" is an option and not a
requirement. But the underlying problem with this is it clearly breaks
the copyrights of Diku -- which he's already infringed upon, removed,
and claimed as HIS code.
Medievia runs upon code which is NOT the property of Mike Krause,
Medievia, Inc., Intersphere, et. al. Medievia is based upon the
agreement from Diku that Mike Krause became legally bound to when he
chose to utilize Merc/Diku to build Medievia IV (let alone III, and
possibly II).
Let me come and remove your name from _everything_ that is _your's_,
and claim it as mine. Then sell it off, rent it out, or just destroy
it. How would that settle with your ethics and morals? From your
stance in your post I'd assume that you'd be okie-fucking-dokie with
that.
The ethical and moral solution, to me, is simple, albeit embarrassing
for the short term. Mike needs to fess up, apologize to all parties
concerned, reinstate the credits PER the copyrights, remove the
donation system from being in-game benefits, to non-game items
(shirts, mugs, etc). SIMPLE. And simply just embarrassing (assuming no
actual legal punishment comes about, the only "harm" to Mike Krause
would be to blush while shyly stating he was wrong -- course I doubt
he'd blush. I imagen he'd more likely have red cheeks of anger at
having to go against his own self-centered and selfish ways.
The legal issues are beyond me, but I'd imagen a strong possibility of
any parties concerned to be content if the above moral/ethical
solution was accomplished.
Will it happen, doubtful. Will you care, highly doubtful -- you're
entrenched in the camp of God-groupies chanting "Medievia is FUN, I
don't care if it's based on stolen code and lies, lies, lies. More fun
for me, more fun for ME!!" Groupies that don't care about ethics or
morals -- no matter what you might say on the surface -- your personal
entertainment is above and beyond what is _right_. And that, indeed,
is quite sad.
Oma
KaVir
[snip]
> As much as you want to cry audit and hope it drives Mike into a series
> of hives, do you honestly think he'd have checks/money orders/etc made
> payable to Medievia if he was worried about an audit? My guess is he's
> pretty prepared for one as his donations aren't demanded to be made
> payable to 'cash' or sent in 'cash' only.
This has already been covered by another poster.
> I've read through a ton of posts here so forgive me very humbly if I'm
> posting this comment in the wrong area. Someone said 90% of Med has
> donation items. Hmm, I'm sure that number is off. I had a clan of 51
> people and half of them didn't have donation items or only had one/two
> pieces. Ok lets say... 1000 people donate for a full set. Roughly
> $350/set. $350k right? Let me break it down a little better.
No, please - let ME. Medievia started taking donations in 1995, I
believe. According to Medievia's Mud Connector entry (written by
Vryce), Medievia doesn't allow multi-play and - in January 1999 (when
the entry was last updated) - had 18,000 active players. In order to
have the top stats and abilities you need to spend $300-$400 initially
(depending on whether or not you want mana amulets) and then $160 per
year after that to keep the equipment. I'll go with $350 average
initial payments, the same as you've done.
If in between 1995 and 1996, 180 (1%) of the players purchased a full
set of equipment (assuming an average of $350 each), Medievia would
have gained $63,000.
If in between 1996 and 1997, 180 (1%) more players purchased a full set
of equipment, Medievia would have gained another $63,000, plus $28,800
by the previous 180 players who wanted to keep their equipment = $91,800
If in between 1997 and 1998, 180 (1%) more players purchased a full set
of equipment, Medievia would have gained another $63,000, plus $57,600
by the previous 360 players who wanted to keep their equipment =
$120,600.
If in between 1998 and 1999, 180 (1%) more players purchased a full set
of equipment, Medievia would have gained another $63,000, plus $86,400
by the previous 540 players who wanted to keep their equipment =
$149,400.
If in between 1999 and 2000, 180 (1%) more players purchased a full set
of equipment, Medievia would have gained another $63,000, plus $115,200
by the previous 720 players who wanted to keep their equipment =
$178,200.
If in between 2000 and 2001, 180 (1%) more players purchase a full set
of equipment, Medievia will have gained another $63,000, plus $144,000
by the previous 900 players who want to keep their equipment = $207,000
That means that by the end of this year 1080 players (6% of the
playerbase, assuming Medievia has gained no new players in the last two
years, despite advertising in at least two gaming magazines, including
Dragon) will have - between them - donated $810,000.
[snip]
> Do you honestly think his pockets are just overflowing with cash?
Do you honestly think a divorced programmer with no college degree who
pays child support can afford a new Chrysler Seabrig convertible
(complete with leather seats!), a rather nice townhome in a suburb
(he's moved since then - he bought a house), original artwork on the
walls, and a taste for mary jane like he has on just his work income?
Where do you think the $6000+ for legal advice (concerning his use of
Diku code) came from? Where you think the money to buy off the
previous owners came from? Where you think the several hundred dollars
he throws around at Medievia parties comes from? Yes, I'm sure he's
generous - but with YOUR money, not his.
Did you honestly think your "donations" went into the game?
[snip]
> Yea I know, if he stole it hes wrong etc. Things in today's society
> are usually always derived from something else.. Music, Games,
> Movies, Books... most of popular Media the author got the idea or
> influenced by another.
Inspired by. Copied ideas from. Many fantasy novels are inspired by
Lord of the Rings - but what do you think would happen if someone took
a copy of Lord of the Rings, changed the names of some of the
characters and put their own name on the front cover as the author?
> For 10 yrs people have come to Med to escape whatever, have fun and
> meet new people.
Medievia opened to the public on April 1st 1993.
> There is s saying, which Im sure you can finish in your head, 'if you
> love something let it go.. if it comes back to you, it was yours.. if
> not.. it was never yours to begin with'. Now Im not saying the
> original authors should just be like ok fine he uses a part of our
> code let him have it but what I am saying is Med has brought together
> hundreds of people this past decade and will continue on for many
> more to come.
Irrelevent. Vryce is claiming credit for - and making money from -
someone elses work, and he's harming the entire mudding community as a
result. Medievia is only one of many thousands of muds, and it's
certainly not the most popular - but it's enough to encourage coders
not to release any more code.
> Maybe some of you Med Haters had a bad experience on the game, died
> repeatedly and are just so damned mad about it you sit here all day
> and whine about the game. You even create websites devoted to it.
I have never played Medievia. I simply dislike thieves, specially when
they hurt a community I'm part of.
> Congrats!! It brings us more players to win over.
Really? That's not what the Medievia staff seem to think - but then,
of course, you don't get to read their gods mailing list.
[snip]
KaVir.
Dan
> Really? That's not what the Medievia staff seem to think - but then,
> of course, you don't get to read their gods mailing list.
>
> [snip]
>
> KaVir.
Steve Hilberg
Except that if you'd been following this thread for a month or so you'd
see that people have posted mail from that list here.
--
Steve Hilberg <Necromancer> CCSO Workstation Support Group
<hil...@uiuc.edu> KB9TEV
CCSO _still_ doesn't pay me enough to
speak for them, so I still don't.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"And if He ever suffered, it was me who did His crying...."
-- Concrete Blonde, "Tomorrow Wendy"
appla...@my-deja.com
> Been there, done that, not going to do it again. If people read
> through these debates, and form the conclusion that Medievia is "their
> kinda game", so be it. Chances are, most MUDs wouldn't want those
> players anyway. And I thought your job on Medievia was getting CPK'd
> by LoSK and being cutesy for Fate? (Low blow, admittedly, but you
seem to classify all of the opposing camp as losers anyway, so welcome
to the company.)
Hmm, dont recall calling anyone a loser and if youre talking about the
clan/town I'm in then still.. no idea there either what you mean. I've
been cpked by LOSK once. Does it matter here? Not especially but if you
want to talk about that part of the game, contact me there or email me.
Its not the subject at hand really.
You said:
> Most of your arguments seem to center around semantics, and your
> personal code of ethics. Pointing to a recent "trial" in American
> history, I compare your justifications to the fine line between the
> definition of "sex" and "oral sex". Lying is lying, and no ammount of
> talking about it is going to change the fact that it's wrong.
>
This is also in response to your cocaine reference. When something is
fun, people are addicted to it (Im sure hundreds out there are or they
wouldn't play each and every day) they don't care how its brought to
them. I'm not saying this personally and I don't condone anyone doing
anything illegal towards code or otherwise. I play the game so maybe
you're saying I condone it. One: Unless I'm mistaken, which its bound
to happen, has anyone formally been charged with a crime about this
code? Hmm, no right? If the creators had a really strong case against
Med, why haven't they shut it down already? Maybe because their basing
it on some old code years old that really has no reference today in the
game? Now youre going to say .01% is enough of a reference but when you
expand a game from 10k lines of code to 250k lines of code, thats a
small percentage *(IF ITS EVEN TRUE)* to be sitting here debating it
daily. All the coders here seem to 'see' the evidence of the code, then
why is it an issue? Someone should have sued Mike by now and won if its
so damn obvious.
You also asked me where I got 1990 from, I know some players on there
who have played since 1991 at least, so unless they are insane and have
the wrong year, thats where I get it from. I have been playing since
Nov 1996 so I only know personally about Med since then. Not sure if
you have a hidden agenda there asking me that, but shoot away.
Anyways, if you want to continue the discussion without name calling,
etc 'low blows' whatever go ahead... Email me directly as well if you
like.
Also, glad you got your loot back :)
Apples
KaVir
I must say those nay sayers are damn quick on the draw, within what
could only have been moments of the reviews going up they already had a
bunch slagging us off. With the structure of the reviews there it shows
the most recent first, and the oldest last...now under a normal
situation that wouldn't be too bad, but with this bunch of shall we
say...jerks? about it does give us a fair bit of bad press. Personally
I'd love to drag them onto Med or to a Med GTG and let the bloodbath
begin, but then I am a very strong supporter of our world. Such a
strong one that if I ever do win the darn lottery, and trust me it
isn't through lack of trying, a substantial donation would be
forthcoming, as it is what little I can afford does eventually make
it's way here for improvments etc...
Anyway, I just thought I'd let you all know what I've run into.
Enignon/Dan
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield in the face of adversity.
KaVir
appla...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
[snip]
> One: Unless I'm mistaken, which its bound to happen, has anyone
> formally been charged with a crime about this code? Hmm, no right? If
> the creators had a really strong case against Med, why haven't they
> shut it down already?
This same question has been answered repeatedly. Legal action would be
very expensive and time consuming and - because the Diku team haven't
actually lost any money for it (the code is for non-profit use,
remember?) they wouldn't actually get anything back other than their
court costs.
> Maybe because their basing it on some old code years old that really
> has no reference today in the game?
Thranz, one of the Medievia coders until very recently, has confirmed
that the current code is based upon Diku.
[snip]
> You also asked me where I got 1990 from, I know some players on there
> who have played since 1991 at least, so unless they are insane and
> have the wrong year, thats where I get it from.
They must be mistaken, as Medievia didn't open until April 1993.
Development first started on it in February 1993. Medievia is based
upon Merc 1.0, which wasn't released until December 1992.
[snip rest]
KaVir.
Alan Schwartz
>One: Unless I'm mistaken, which its bound
>to happen, has anyone formally been charged with a crime about this
>code? Hmm, no right? If the creators had a really strong case against
>Med, why haven't they shut it down already?
If only I lived in your world, where right always prevails, at no
expense. If only I lived in your world, where every criminal
was always caught and charged and made to pay.
>Maybe because their basing
>it on some old code years old that really has no reference today in the
>game? Now youre going to say .01% is enough of a reference but when you
>expand a game from 10k lines of code to 250k lines of code, thats a
>small percentage *(IF ITS EVEN TRUE)* to be sitting here debating it
>daily. All the coders here seem to 'see' the evidence of the code, then
>why is it an issue? Someone should have sued Mike by now and won if its
>so damn obvious.
If only I lived in your world, where programmers and universities
producing a free-for-restricted use product could always afford
to sue when someone violated their restrictions.
It's pretty simple. If I take your copyrighted work and modify
it, it's still yours. If I'm using your copyrighted work, I must
abide by your conditions of use.
If I'm a lowlife and I use your work in a way that you didn't
allow me to (and, moreover, I claim it's not yours, thus plagiarizing
you too), I am doing something illegal and immoral.
Whether or not I get sued for it have no bearing on whether what
I'm doing is illegal and immoral or not.
The above applies to a book you write, a song you record, a movie
you make, or a piece of software you code. As a book and software
author, I find plagiarism, copyright violation, and license violation
detestable.
I'm glad you're having fun at Medievia. But if any of the threads
on this newsgroup have made you wonder if your fun is at the expense
of others, I'd suggest you think about that seriously.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Javelin@M*U*S*H (mush.pennmush.org 4201) | Alan Schwartz
Paul@DuneMUSH | dune...@pennmush.org
Javelin@Belgariad, and elsewhere | PennMUSH Server Maintainer
=-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
PennMUSH God's Guide: http://www.pennmush.org/~alansz/guide.html
PennMUSH Source: ftp://ftp.pennmush.org/pub/PennMUSH/Source
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Aaron Reynolds
> Diku, blah blah blah, god. Yea I know, if he stole
> it hes wrong etc. Things in today's society are usually always derived
> from something else.. Music, Games, Movies, Books... most of popular
> Media the author got the idea or influenced by another.
Okay, but...Vryce agreed to follow the license when he was given the code. If
he didn't want to follow it, he should have picked a different code.
If you REALLY believe that what Vryce has done is okay, then you would have
no problem with me setting up Medievia's code on another server, adding a
couple of neat features that people like and taking all the names of people
who worked so hard on Medievia off of it and claiming I created it. I
imagine that if I did this, Med players would be up in arms screaming for my
blood, regardless of how good my version was.
Medievia is fun to play. I don't think that it should be shut down. All
that Vryce needs to do to make this okay is restore the credit to the Diku
team on the login screen and change his donation system. He can get people
to send him money, that is NOT the issue here. What he CAN'T do is sell
in-game priveledges for money. He can sell T-shirts, mousepads, printed
copies of the Mudslinger, whatever he wants...just not anything IN the game.
The code rules are very very simple: you have to give the authors credit, and
you charge people to play the game.
How hard is that? It isn't. Vryce is just trying to save face.
Clifford
missa...@my-deja.com
> clan/town I'm in then still.. no idea there either what you mean. I've
> been cpked by LOSK once. Does it matter here? Not especially but if
you
> want to talk about that part of the game, contact me there or email
me.
> Its not the subject at hand really.
Well, let's take a look: You said "Maybe some of you Med Haters had a
bad experience on the game, died repeatedly and are just so damned mad
about it you sit here all day and whine about the game. " Granted, you
used the words "maybe" and "some", but that statement implies that
people who don't like Med couldn't find their way out of a stock
MUDSchool with a map. It may come as quite a shock to you, Apples, my
dear, but A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE REFUSE TO EVEN CONNECT TO THE GAME
BECAUSE IT WOULD MAKE THEM FEEL UNCLEAN. So they can't very well be
failures at that huge challenge known as Medievia, now can they?
You're correct, your clan membership and cpk-ability aren't germaine to
the topic at hand. Whether or not people have *played* Medievia is not
germaine to the topic at hand either - this isn't about the merits of
gameplay, and happy-Barney-hugfests, this is about the ethics and
morality involved in using someone else's code without abiding the
liscense you agreed to. And if you continue to sign things with
"Apples", I'm going to continue to think you're just a cutsey girl.
[snip]
> This is also in response to your cocaine reference. When something is
> fun, people are addicted to it (Im sure hundreds out there are or they
> wouldn't play each and every day) they don't care how its brought to
> them. I'm not saying this personally and I don't condone anyone doing
> anything illegal towards code or otherwise. I play the game so maybe
> you're saying I condone it.
Again I ask: Have you actually read anything that Oma or Thranz have
said? Have you looked at the source code posted at the various
eeeeeeevil Anti-Medievia sites? Source code which was ACKNOWLEDGED by
Vryce as Medievia's copywritten property (incidentaly, it contained
DIKU and Merc code segments - unless Vryce's name was Fuery at one
point). If you've examined all of this evidence, and still think
there's nothing fishy going on (and really, after the signed statement
under penalty of perjury from Vryce saying that source code (which is
FULL of DIKU and Merc (and Tiny, and ... ) is pretty damning evidence)
then you DO condone an unethical, immoral, and illegal behavior.
>One: Unless I'm mistaken, which its bound
> to happen, has anyone formally been charged with a crime about this
> code? Hmm, no right? If the creators had a really strong case against
> Med, why haven't they shut it down already? Maybe because their basing
> it on some old code years old that really has no reference today in
the
> game?
Thranz wasn't a god a few years ago - he's a new addition. He had
access to the Medievia code, and he says there is no doubt in his mind
that the code Medievia is running NOW still contains material liscensed
by the DIKU and Merc teams. (God, repeating this stuff for every Med-
head that comes down the pike is getting boring, can't we just create a
FAQ already?)
As to why no one's pressed charges: I'm gonna guess here and say
you're probably American (maybe Canadian, but you're woefully negligent
in your use of "eh?" if so). In America, we can sue people for looking
at us crosseyed, and get a date a week from Tuesday with Judge Judy so
the two of us can throw things at each other, in the name of
"justice". The DIKU creators live (or lived) in Denmark. The DIKU is
in Denmark. Denmark is another country. That's right, it's not one of
the 50 states, or even a province, like Canada (*cough*). If the DIKU
team were to sue for liscense infringement, they can sue for damages.
Because the DIKU liscense specifically bars making a profit via the
code, they don't "win", even if they win. They get nothing. Nada.
Zilch. It costs them money - money to get a lawyer in the states,
trans-atlantic phone calls, flying over for the trial - and because
their product prohibits making money off it, their damages come out to
the grand whopping sum of ZERO.
>Now youre going to say .01% is enough of a reference but when you
> expand a game from 10k lines of code to 250k lines of code, thats a
> small percentage *(IF ITS EVEN TRUE)* to be sitting here debating it
> daily. All the coders here seem to 'see' the evidence of the code,
then
> why is it an issue? Someone should have sued Mike by now and won if
its
> so damn obvious.
See above. Can't paint a picture any clearer than that - sometimes
just being "right" isn't enough - maybe it's time to get Ralph Nader to
take the case on a pro-bono, just-because-stealing-is-wrong-and-whatnot
basis.
> You also asked me where I got 1990 from, I know some players on there
> who have played since 1991 at least, so unless they are insane and
have
> the wrong year, thats where I get it from. I have been playing since
> Nov 1996 so I only know personally about Med since then. Not sure if
> you have a hidden agenda there asking me that, but shoot away.
I asked it because no one, not even Vryce himself, can nail down a firm
start date for Medievia. You said 10 years, which indicates founded in
1990. Now you say 1991, which is 9 years. Vryce has said 1994 (6
years), and 1990. The oldest Medievia advertisement (which stated it
was Merc, did it not?) is from.. 1993? No hidden agenda, I'm just
really curious if there is a correct starting date.
> Anyways, if you want to continue the discussion without name calling,
> etc 'low blows' whatever go ahead... Email me directly as well if you
> like.
I said it at the top, but it bears repeating. Don't assume that people
who dislike Medievia on moral/ethical grounds are losers who suck
(which is pretty much what you did assume). Medievia is a very complex
game - for most people, it takes a client script of a few hundred lines
just to cover the basics of gameplay. However, Medievia is *not* the
very pinacle of gaming, and I think you'd find that most people could
master the basic command sets in say .. 30 seconds? That's because the
basic commands are (drumroll please) DIKU.
KaVir
missa...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <8plfhh$iho$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> appla...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
[snip]
> > One: Unless I'm mistaken, which its bound
> > to happen, has anyone formally been charged with a crime about this
> > code? Hmm, no right? If the creators had a really strong case
> > against Med, why haven't they shut it down already? Maybe because
> > their basing it on some old code years old that really has no
> > reference today in the game?
> Thranz wasn't a god a few years ago - he's a new addition. He had
> access to the Medievia code, and he says there is no doubt in his mind
> that the code Medievia is running NOW still contains material
> liscensed by the DIKU and Merc teams. (God, repeating this stuff for
> every Med-head that comes down the pike is getting boring, can't we
> just create a FAQ already?)
Actually I did, on my site (the direct link is
www.kavir.dial.pipex.com/med/faq.html). In fact the original reason I
created my site was because I was fed up of answering the same
questions again and again - the trouble is that none of the Medievia
supporters seem prepared to actually READ the site (well some do, but
they inevitably turn against Medievia, or simply stop posting).
[snip]
> > You also asked me where I got 1990 from, I know some players on
> > there who have played since 1991 at least, so unless they are
> > insane and have the wrong year, thats where I get it from. I have
> > been playing since Nov 1996 so I only know personally about Med
> > since then. Not sure if you have a hidden agenda there asking me
> > that, but shoot away.
> I asked it because no one, not even Vryce himself, can nail down a
> firm start date for Medievia. You said 10 years, which indicates
> founded in 1990. Now you say 1991, which is 9 years. Vryce has said
> 1994 (6 years), and 1990. The oldest Medievia advertisement (which
> stated it was Merc, did it not?) is from.. 1993?
Allow me to provide some assistance, as I've researched this somewhat.
Medievia was originally founded in February 1993 by Michael Smith (aka
Highlander?), and opened to the public on April 1st 1993, although
Vryce himself has claimed 1990, 1991 and 1992 in various different
places. Vryce (who was only third-in-charge at the time) was kicked
off of Medievia in late 1993, but restored himself shortly afterwards
as he had shell access. He took over the running of the mud in either
1993 or 1994 (I don't honestly know which) - no idea how, but from what
I can gather from talking to old Medievia players, the original owner
had a bit of a fit about the whole incident and was generally regarded
as a lunatic by most usenet posters.
Medievia IV opened in February 1996 (and parts of the Medievia website
repeat this date), although in his bio, Vryce states that his most
memorable moment was the grand opening of Medievia IV in 1994.
KaVir.
missa...@my-deja.com
KaVir <ka...@my-deja.com> wrote:
[snip]
> Allow me to provide some assistance, as I've researched this somewhat.
>
> Medievia was originally founded in February 1993 by Michael Smith (aka
> Highlander?), and opened to the public on April 1st 1993, although
> Vryce himself has claimed 1990, 1991 and 1992 in various different
> places. Vryce (who was only third-in-charge at the time) was kicked
> off of Medievia in late 1993, but restored himself shortly afterwards
> as he had shell access. He took over the running of the mud in either
> 1993 or 1994 (I don't honestly know which) - no idea how, but from
what
> I can gather from talking to old Medievia players, the original owner
> had a bit of a fit about the whole incident and was generally regarded
> as a lunatic by most usenet posters.
>
> Medievia IV opened in February 1996 (and parts of the Medievia website
> repeat this date), although in his bio, Vryce states that his most
> memorable moment was the grand opening of Medievia IV in 1994.
>
> KaVir.
>
So sometime in the early-to-mid 1990's (but not before 1993, most
likely), a game called Medievia opened to the public. Maybe. Coulda
been 1990. This was after Al Gore invented the internet, right? I
just gotta keep all my fiction straight in one place ... easier to keep
track of that way.
There was no "hidden agenda" in my question, Applesauce. I'm curious
to know what game your "friends who have been playing [Medievia] since
1991" were playing in 1991? I think Vryce was playing a little game
called "Adversary" at that time - when is that module being added
again? Coulda sworn Vryce promised Tryschan would have it done 2 years
ago. (For those not in the know, Vryce used to play a perma-death pk
mud called Adversary. This was apparently the pinacle of his gaming
experience - you can read him wax poetic about his {grief} style of
playing in several in game/website articles. He was planning to add
an "Adversary" module to Medievia based on that game, and it was
promised (over 2 years ago) to be implemented "very soon". I guess
coding from scratch is hard though, even when you're using someone
else's ideas.)
Pet names are a term of endearment, by the way. I used to brush this
issue aside just like you are, Carrie. It took a few years, but my
morals (learned at Mommy's knee, reinforced by the slap of a wooden
spoon on her hand) finally caught up with me. Having fun isn't the
issue - honesty and integrity are the issue. You seem like a good, but
misguided (in this instance) person - I've been in your shoes. I can
only hope that your moral code does consider your justifications wrong,
and that it smacks you about the head and shoulders with the Cluestick
of Moral Guidance very soon. It's far less painful when it happens
quickly.
Sarenthalanos
<appla...@my-deja.com> spewed in message
news:8pjlue$gj9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <Z4Tt5.1744$4s.2...@news1.onlynews.com>,
[snip]
Hello, is this Danwar again?
Honestly...everyone...I'll be 'kind' and not reply to this in full context.
I don't want to be accused of being 'insensitive' again when I (however
bluntly) try to pry someone's eyes open with a crowbar and hopefully credit
them with enough intelligence to look over the facts and think for
themselves (a fault of mine, I will admit).
However, I have noticed quite a lot of people who have pointed out some good
facts, so Applaedesia, I suggest you look over them yourself (your own
points, and some of the collected evidence), and also think a bit more about
real-world situations. Quite a few of your points were borderline
ridiculous, particularly because how wonderful Med is, and that people bash
the game because of in-game stuff. Hello? McFlamebait? The topic of
discussion here, for a looong time has *NOT* been about the quality of the
game, but about the code theft and other unethical matters. *NOT* about
whether someone died or whatever many times, or whatever. Please get on
topic, ok?
(Sighs and waits for the next pedantic weekly flamebait...)
-Sarenthalanos
magi...@my-deja.com
this issue? I mean, hell, KaVir has gotten text snippets of the code
that could be used as evidence and the DIKU authors/community could also
be brought in for additional witnesses.
-- M
Ces...@medievia.com
> As much as you want to cry audit and hope it drives Mike into a series
> of hives, do you honestly think he'd have checks/money orders/etc made
> payable to Medievia if he was worried about an audit? My guess is he's
> pretty prepared for one as his donations aren't demanded to be made
> payable to 'cash' or sent in 'cash' only.
I think that Mike probably runs the business of Medievia very
carefully. There would be no reason he shouldn't. It's a profitable
venture for him but only if he runs it in such a way as to not
attract the attention of the IRS. My guess, is that he accounts for
every penny.
> I've read through a ton of posts here so forgive me very humbly if I'm
> posting this comment in the wrong area. Someone said 90% of Med has
> donation items. Hmm, I'm sure that number is off. I had a clan of 51
> people and half of them didn't have donation items or only had one/two
> pieces. Ok lets say... 1000 people donate for a full set. Roughly
> $350/set. $350k right? Let me break it down a little better. Vryce and
> Soleil give away a ton of free donation eq each year as well to Gods,
> people who help with the website, etc. Tons of way to earn free gear.
> Vryce himself gives away gear once in awhile, and a whole set at that.
> If you play the game a fair amt you notice about 500 people are online
> at the same time. Usually, its the same 500 or roughly the same people
> every day. These people have already donated, some years ago. Do you
> honestly think his pockets are just overflowing with cash? 4 pieces of
> gear you can buy is permanent. When Bloodline Characters came out (When
> you reach highest lvl you can have children .. etc) they offered to
> switch donation gear between characters for free.. no limit to items.
> Hence you didnt have to spend another couple hundred bucks. Discounts
> are offered when you renew items as well. Alot of people took advantage
> of this before it was ceased. If Mike was so concerned about profiting
> from every player, he wouldnt give shit away for free, at all. He'd be
> rubbing his hands together screaming money to himself in his sleep if
> thats all he cared about.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here? The fact that
some people have possibly over-stated how much money is at stake that
everything is OK? Does it matter if he's made 1 dollar or 1Million
dollars?
Mike is positioning himself to be running a VERY profitable
business. Ask him. Even he'll tell you that he is negotiating with
investment companies and the like. This isn't a secret.
> This is prolly my first and last post here as Im sure Ill get slammed
> by some of you, which is cool, feel free to email me. Ive played Med
> for 4 yrs (and No Im not hiding my name.. this is the one I primarily
> use on Med) but in the time Ive met Mike and Dianne they just want
> people to have fun. Diku, blah blah blah, god. Yea I know, if he stole
> it hes wrong etc. Things in today's society are usually always derived
> from something else.. Music, Games, Movies, Books... most of popular
> Media the author got the idea or influenced by another. For 10 yrs
> people have come to Med to escape whatever, have fun and meet new
> people.
Again, what are you saying? That he's wrong to steal the code
but in the end that's ok because others do it? And it doesn't matter
if people have been coming to med for 10 years (which they haven't
because not even Vryce claims to have been up and running since 1990)
because whether or not the game is fun isn't relevent. It's an
entertaining game. It has lots of nice features. It has a pleasant
working staff. All of these things are true (IMO) but they have no
bearing on the ethics involved.
> There is s saying, which Im sure you can finish in your head, 'if you
> love something let it go.. if it comes back to you, it was yours.. if
> not.. it was never yours to begin with'. Now Im not saying the original
> authors should just be like ok fine he uses a part of our code let him
> have it but what I am saying is Med has brought together hundreds of
> people this past decade and will continue on for many more to come.
> Maybe some of you Med Haters had a bad experience on the game, died
> repeatedly and are just so damned mad about it you sit here all day and
> whine about the game. You even create websites devoted to it.
> Congrats!! It brings us more players to win over.
This seems terribley petty. I don't seen any difference in
this paragraph than someone saying 'nya nya you can't catch me'.
> Begin Medievia for a week and stay for years. Youre giving the avenue
> for people to travel upon and visit Med. They get hooked and they are
> there forever. Good job :) Helping newbies is my job on Med and I love
> it, so bring on more!!!!!
> Applaedesia.
> Carrie Niemi
Kurt Schwind
Cestus
Ces...@medievia.com
> In article <8pjlue$gj9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> appla...@my-deja.com wrote:
> [snip a ton of pre-quotes]
>>
>> Yea, Audit must make him shake :p
> Well, considering I've heard Medievia described as a "non-profit"
> organization (which you'd be hard pressed to prove they are, love), and
> am aware of at least 5 changes in ownership during the history of the
> game (Mike Smith -> Mike Krause -> Mike Krause & Shalafi -> Mike Krause
> -> Mike Krause & Ozymandias), it might give him the shivers. Medievia
> is (suposedly) a corporation, which means that they (should) have
I had also seen Medievia described as non-profit. This however
is NOT the case. I think that there was some genuine confusion. The
term 'non-profit' has a very specific meaning to the IRS. Medievia
does not fall into non-profit status.
I've verified this with Med staff.
Kurt Schwind
Cestus
Sarenthalanos
<appla...@my-deja.com> spewed in message
news:8po5tl$p7s$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <kYyv5.412$bo3....@news-west.eli.net>,
> Saren,
>
> You GENIUS. Thats exactly what I told the person. To stay on TOPIC.
> WOO, congrats you agree with me!!! Well done.
>
> Might want to read their whole response to me and see why I replied the
> way I did.
>
> Happy Bitching,
> Appl
Fredfish
like answering it.
Your question was:
> Where do they find these people?
And in response, thus spake Fred:
Originally, they came from a large factory outside Wichita, Kansas. The
factory was intended to manufacture typewriter-operating monkeys,
however a few monkeys got loose, crossbred with genetically engineered
hybrid corn in the wild, and figured out how to use telnet. 10 years
later, Medievia.
<<< disclaimer: the preceeding post was meant as a joke and not a
blanket bashing of Med players. I am sure there are Medievia players who
are intelligent, well-spoken, thoughtful, and ethical. Applaedesia is 0
for 4. >>>
Fredfish
Sarenthalanos wrote:
> And the award of Clueless Flamebait of the Week goes to....
>
> <appla...@my-deja.com>
Sarenthalanos:
The scary thing is, these people have a clue. They know what the allegations
are, (to an extent) what supports those allegations, and yet they try to
justify with
> Yea I know, if he stole
> it hes wrong etc. Things in today's society are usually always derived
> from something else.. Music, Games, Movies, Books... most of popular
> Media the author got the idea or influenced by another.
Besides this wonderful piece of grammar, we have,
>> "With regards to the allegations of a few outspoken and immature
>> detractors of Medievia I dismiss them entirely. Personally I feel the
>> Diku Licence is outdated [ ? ]
>Yes outdated. Under the GNU General Public License and I quote...[etc]
Well, at least our pal Danwar can construct a full sentence, even if it is
entirely irrelevant.
I could go on, but before I delve too far into flamedom, </NEGATIVE>
I think that App, and maybe even Danwar aren't neccearily fools. I think the
same goes for the rest of Medievia. It's easy to be blinded by your love - and
I would call what many MUDders, especially Medievians, have for their game of
choice 'love' - for a game, so that you feel it could never be in the wrong.
Well, unfortunately, Medievia violates the Diku licence and, the more one
investigates, seems to be surrounded in a curtain of deliberate deception. It
is in the wrong. I appeal to all Medievia players to let Vyrce know how they
feel about that.
Best e-mail wins a Dragon Crystal.
::: Fredfish :::
Cervantes
As has been stated before, it would cost the DIKU team too much to take
Vryce to court. They would receive no money from their (certain) victory,
and would have to shell out for running a legal action from Denmark. The
most resonable option so far has been to have an American company/person act
on behalf of the DIKU team, which of course means they have to agree first.
If there are any bored lawyers out there, we have a nice lil thing for you
to chalk up in your "win" column...
Cervantes
<magi...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8pmkj1$181$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
appla...@my-deja.com
"Sarenthalanos" <Sarent...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
You GENIUS. Thats exactly what I told the person. To stay on TOPIC.
WOO, congrats you agree with me!!! Well done.
Might want to read their whole response to me and see why I replied the
way I did.
Happy Bitching,
Appl
Derek Snider
"Cervantes" <a...@b.com> wrote in message news:39bf...@ecn.ab.ca...
> Hio
> As has been stated before, it would cost the DIKU team too much to take
> Vryce to court. They would receive no money from their (certain) victory,
> and would have to shell out for running a legal action from Denmark. The
> most resonable option so far has been to have an American company/person
act
> on behalf of the DIKU team, which of course means they have to agree
first.
> If there are any bored lawyers out there, we have a nice lil thing for you
> to chalk up in your "win" column...
Umm... there certainly is some money at stake. All that illegal donation
money... which has been estimated at around $500,000 US.
Also... there have apparently been some lawyers willing to take the case
for free -- or at least a stake in the winnings.
missa...@my-deja.com
appla...@my-deja.com wrote:
[snip]
> Saren,
>
> You GENIUS. Thats exactly what I told the person. To stay on TOPIC.
> WOO, congrats you agree with me!!! Well done.
>
> Might want to read their whole response to me and see why I replied
the
> way I did.
>
> Happy Bitching,
> Appl
>
Yea, exactly what Applae- "Maybe some of you Med Haters had a bad
experience on the game, died repeatedly and are just so damned mad
about it you sit here all day and whine about the game." -desia has
been doing all along. Glass houses, stones, shouldn't throw? (It's ok
for you to insinuate that anyone who has a problem with Medievia's
liscense breaking must just be a loser at the game, but it's not ok for
me to point out that isn't the case?)
Cervantes
"damages". DIKU is not-for-profit, therefore they have lost no money by
having Vryce steal their code. The damages awarded would be "0". I'm not an
expert on the American legal system, so I can't say for sure whether or not
punitive damages would be a possibility, but as it stands now, DIKU has lost
0 (zero) dollars because of Vryces' screwing around. And is DIKU really
going to go through all that trouble just to get one mud to restore credits?
Probably not till alot more people start raising some noise.
OTOH, if you (or anyone else) have any info whatsoever regarding lawyers
willing to take on the DIKU/Vryce issue for little or no money, please
forward that info to KaVir (or AxL, I assume) right away. I know the growing
community of Anti-Vryces would love to have a snapshot of his face when
papers get served.
Cervantes
"Derek Snider" <de...@idirect.com> wrote in message
news:jCNv5.940$M%3.3...@quark.idirect.com...
Fredrik Lännergren
Cervantes wrote in message <39c0...@ecn.ab.ca>...
>The problem is, the proceeds from a win, aside from legal costs, would be
>"damages". DIKU is not-for-profit, therefore they have lost no money by
>having Vryce steal their code. The damages awarded would be "0".
Just something on the side...
I believe "damage" counts as the amount of money you lost plus the amount of
money the culprit made from the illegal action....and that sums up to quite
a bit in this case.
Note, "believe"...
/Fredrik
Sarenthalanos
"Fredrik Lännergren" <fredrik.l...@epk.ericsson.se> wrote in message
news:8pq9nd$ccn$1...@newstoo.ericsson.se...
I've kind of believed the same thing.
If someone takes a licensed work that prevented you from making money off of
it in any manner, and you went ahead and did it anyways, then it might be
possible that the damages could in fact be considered the money the person
made illegally off of it. That's just speculation on my part, but I believe
it to be possible. In any case, the Feds do look into stuff like this, of
software piracy, and if it is proved to be a license-breaker, the FBI might
have their own say in it (which usually results in forfeiture of
illegaly-acquired monies, usually a stiff fine on top of that, and quite
possibly some time at Club Fed).
I'll have to talk to my uncle whenever he has the time. He's a bloodsucker,
and I think he's had a bit of experience there. If anything, I could
possibly get some advice from him about this issue.
-Sarenthalanos
Sarenthalanos
"Fredfish" <oxford_S...@ISon.aibnBAD.com> wrote in message
news:39C0078A...@ISon.aibnBAD.com...
Sarenthalanos
Instead of software piracy, it should be license-breaking.
"Sarenthalanos" <Sarent...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gEaw5.532$bo3....@news-west.eli.net...
John Molea
"KaVir" <ka...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8pl0sr$1fi$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> of course, you don't get to read their gods mailing list.
Actually she does Kavir, she is a medievia immortal a fact she neglected to
mention of course.
missa...@my-deja.com
"John Molea" <jmo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Actually she does Kavir, she is a medievia immortal a fact she
neglected to
> mention of course.
>
rules! Here you are, a hero, an avatar, a GODDESS, telling us to have
fun with our "Happy Bitching". Now if some innocent newbie had been
following this thread, and decided they wanted to play Medievia (they'd
have to be pretty dumb), they would think cursing was okie-fucking-
dokie (to quote someone else, probably Axl, but I'm far too lazy to
check) with you.
Will the horror never end? Vryce should follow his own rules and
freeze you - representing Medievia with such foul* language!
* On Medievia, saying "WTF" will get you 3-5 in the freezer.
** This post was mostly tongue-in-cheek, but really ... Her attempt
at "discussion" was nothing more than another in yet a long line of
Medievia Staff trolls. Apples' street cred before "disclosure" > 0.
Apples' street cred now = 0. KTHXBYE
Fredrik Lännergren
*zooms in on the interesting part*
>Yea I know, if he stole it hes wrong etc.
*zooms out again, dodging some classic troll sentences*
/Fredrik
Cervantes
the DIKU team lost absolutely no money via Vryces actions.If he'd done what
he was supposed to, DIKU would have made the exact same amount of money as
they did by him not following the license, IE zero, nadda, zilch. If DIKU
didn't loose any money by Vryces actions, then what would they be awarded?
Nothing.
What you may be thinking of is that, as far as I know, profits made from
non-profit software, et al, can be awarded in punitive damages. But I
wouldn't expect it as an absolute.
But like I said, I'm not a 'mercin =)
Cerv
"Sarenthalanos" <Sarent...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:GTaw5.535$bo3....@news-west.eli.net...
Myrddraal2
>didn't loose any money by Vryces actions, then what would they be awarded?
If I remember corectly, there is a minimum that a copyright work can recieve,
so they could at least sue for that much. I'm not sure if it's enough to make
the trip and pay for court fees, though.
Danwar
pedantic friends.
Would the real slim shady please stand up?
Long Live Danwar
Sarenthalanos wrote:
--
-----------------------------------------------------
Click here for Free Video!!
http://www.gohip.com/free_video/
Neil Rugar
definition of Pedantic? I have read your many many many (a characteristic of
pedantic people) posts where you nit pick and argue endlessly to the point where
evidence has been collected and a webpage produced to display the facts. lol.
In fact I would suggest that 95% of the people here are pedantic. Funny eh. ok
over and out .. have fun.
Fredfish
> Dood, I don't want to point out the obvious here but I will. Do you know the
> definition of Pedantic? I have read your many many many (a characteristic of
> pedantic people) posts where you nit pick and argue endlessly to the point where
> evidence has been collected and a webpage produced to display the facts. lol.
> In fact I would suggest that 95% of the people here are pedantic. Funny eh. ok
> over and out .. have fun.
<<< disclaimer: to avoid trolling, I should point out that the following post is a
joke >>>
I think perchance you should educate yourself as to the definition of 'pedantic',
or at least I would suggest that if you obviously were far too ignorant to
understand it. The pedant, as even the most idiotic of persons knows, utilizes a
great magnitude of colourful verbiage in order to convey the most elegantly simple
concepts, as if, to descend into the vulgar tounge, he is 'beating a dead equine'.
In other words, he is so enamored, so dumfounded at his own imagined verbal
skill, and so disgutedly downlooking upon those who do not share his imagined
talents, that he constructs an image of himself as an Oracle of sorts, a pillar of
knowledge and understanding amidst a sea of smileys and misplaced apostrophes. His
belief in his own infallibility is second only to the degree to which he looks down
snidely at the insolent peons who disagrees with him. The dark secret behind this
mighty verbal facade is, once the iron curtains of thunderous, trumpeting clauses
and intricate syntactic constructs are stripped to the barest essence of the
pedant's argument, we are left with nothing.
And he usually has a deja news account.
::: Fredfish :::
Found 9768442 matches for "information overload".
Sarenthalanos
I know the definition of pendantic, and why the evidence is on a page for a
good cause.
We've tried to get people to start posting on-topic, but they seem to think
we are a bunch of hate-mongers that are bashing Medievia for the sake of
doing so. Not true. I have no quarrels against the game save for the
license-breaking and the general unethicality in which Mikey will stuff
polls and accept "donations" to his pocket-book. That apparently goes for a
lot of people here.
So, what's your purpose here, other than look for trouble?
"Neil Rugar" <NRu...@tricities.com> wrote in message
news:39C62FB1...@tricities.com...
> Dood, I don't want to point out the obvious here but I will. Do you know
the
> definition of Pedantic? I have read your many many many (a characteristic
of
> pedantic people) posts where you nit pick and argue endlessly to the point
where
> evidence has been collected and a webpage produced to display the facts.
lol.
> In fact I would suggest that 95% of the people here are pedantic. Funny
eh. ok
> over and out .. have fun.
>
Sarenthalanos
No, DikuMUD has not changed over to a GNU license since last you posted.
But it's good seeing you again. :-)
"Danwar" <ax...@crossroads.com> verbally masturbated in message
news:39C61381...@crossroads.com...
Myles L Skinner
Fredfish <oxford...@on.aibn.com> wrote:
>
> The pedant, as even the most idiotic of persons knows, utilizes a great
> magnitude of colourful verbiage in order to convey the most elegantly simple
Well, yes and no. The word *you* really want is "sesquipedalian"
Pedantry is more of an inflexible insistence on rules (of various sorts), and
book learning, even when such things are less than appropriate. I think the
previous poster was a little closer to the mark (although he missed the mark
as well, for reasons that would be otiose to recapitulate).
And stop LOOKING at me like that. I am NOT.
ms
--
Covenant MUD: "Our Silent Supporters Can Beat Up Your Silent Supporters!"
Danwar
resolved yet?
Sarenthalanos wrote:
--
Fredfish
> >
> > The pedant, as even the most idiotic of persons knows, utilizes a great
> > magnitude of colourful verbiage in order to convey the most elegantly simple
> > concepts...
>
> Well, yes and no. The word *you* really want is "sesquipedalian"
>
> Pedantry is more of an inflexible insistence on rules (of various sorts), and
> book learning, even when such things are less than appropriate. I think the
> previous poster was a little closer to the mark (although he missed the mark
> as well, for reasons that would be otiose to recapitulate).
>
> And stop LOOKING at me like that. I am NOT.
What, pray tell, does this have to do with diku? Go home, off-topic peon.
::: Fredfish :::
Found 9768442 matches for "information overload"
/|\
|
|--- [ that was a joke, folks ]
Z
I compile my mud using the -pedantic option, am I a pedant?
- Z
ari...@my-deja.com
>
> You also asked me where I got 1990 from, I know some players on there
> who have played since 1991 at least, so unless they are insane and
Erm, the oldest DIKU mud I know of (that is still open, anyway) opened
in early 1992 (perhaps there are older ones? let me know. :) ...
Medthievia couldn't have been open before that, as they pirated DIKU
and MERC code.... :P
-Ariz
AxL
>*snippity snippity sniiiiiip*
>>
>> You also asked me where I got 1990 from, I know some players on there
>> who have played since 1991 at least, so unless they are insane and
>
>Erm, the oldest DIKU mud I know of (that is still open, anyway) opened
>in early 1992 (perhaps there are older ones? let me know. :) ...
The oldest that are currently operational are: (from my
historical mudlist)
AlexMUD (1991)
Address: telnet://alexmud.stacken.kth.se:4000 (130.237.234.80 4000)
Home Page: http://www.stacken.kth.se/~alexmud
AustinMUD (1991)
Address: telnet://austin.prg.dtu.dk:4000 (130.225.2.6 4000)
Home Page: http://austin.prg.dtu.dk/austin
GrimneMUD (1991)
Address: telnet://grimne.pvv.ntnu.no:4000 (129.241.210.220 4000)
Home Page: http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/grimne/
ZeeMUD (formerly Mudde Pathetique) (1991)
Address: telnet://mud.zeemud.org:4000 (140.174.164.51 4000)
Home Page: http://www.zeemud.org/
>Medthievia couldn't have been open before that, as they pirated DIKU
>and MERC code.... :P
>-Ariz
Well, it'd be kinda hard to open before the source code you are
based on was released, wouldn't it? From the top of the license that
coems with Merc:
Merc Release 1.0
Friday 18 December 1992
Which means that unless he spent a hardcore 2 weeks over the
holday season of 1992 coding, then Medthievia's start date is no earlier
than 1993.
--
-AxL, a...@wpcr.plymouth.edu "In Christianity, neither morality nor religion
a...@mail.plymouth.edu Come into contact with reality at any point."
http://mindwarp.plymouth.edu/~axl - Nietzsche
Farix
a...@oz.plymouth.edu (AxL) wrote:
> ZeeMUD (formerly Mudde Pathetique) (1991)
> Address: telnet://mud.zeemud.org:4000 (140.174.164.51
4000)
> Home Page: http://www.zeemud.org/
As a former player of both Mudde Pathetique and ZeeMUD, I've always
viewed them as separate MUDs. I would more accurately classify ZeeMUD
as a direct descendent of MP, but not MP itself.
Farix
--
"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to
take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a
government grows, liberty decreases." -- Thomas Jefferson
ari...@my-deja.com
>
> The oldest that are currently operational are: (from my
> historical mudlist)
>
> AlexMUD (1991)
> Address: telnet://alexmud.stacken.kth.se:4000
(130.237.234.80 4000)
> Home Page: http://www.stacken.kth.se/~alexmud
>
> AustinMUD (1991)
> Address: telnet://austin.prg.dtu.dk:4000 (130.225.2.6 4000)
> Home Page: http://austin.prg.dtu.dk/austin
>
> GrimneMUD (1991)
> Address: telnet://grimne.pvv.ntnu.no:4000 (129.241.210.220
4000)
> Home Page: http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/grimne/
>
> Address: telnet://mud.zeemud.org:4000 (140.174.164.51
4000)
> Home Page: http://www.zeemud.org/
[more trimming, etc]
Thanks for the info, and for not flaming me for being new to the list ;)
-Ariz
Freedom
god is essentially meaningless, builders, people who rewrote old areas (imo
to make sure there was no copyright violations when they posted their
article in pc gamer, but I have no evidence to support that speculation),
and people who run quests also get gods who are essentially meaningless,
they have low access to commands, no powers, and basically anyone with any
motivation who has played the mud for a year or so has one.
-Freedom
Ces...@medievia.com
> There is a distinction, any AVATAR (read newbie helper) has a god, but the
> god is essentially meaningless, builders, people who rewrote old areas (imo
> to make sure there was no copyright violations when they posted their
> article in pc gamer, but I have no evidence to support that speculation),
> and people who run quests also get gods who are essentially meaningless,
> they have low access to commands, no powers, and basically anyone with any
> motivation who has played the mud for a year or so has one.
> -Freedom
While it is true that many Avatars have a god, not /all/ of them do.
For instance, I have an Avatar, but I do not have a god. Nor do
I want one. After seeing people getting purged on here from Med
for just talking, I don't want anyone to think I'm using private
or privilaged information when I post things here.
Med is Diku based. It's a fact. Many people on Medievia
readily admit to this.
Now, from where I sit, Med has at least one clear DIKU violation
and perhaps two.
The credits command and the login sequence clearly do NOT
give the DIKU team credit.
However, the money issue is a little difficult. The DIKU lisense
that I read says that you cannot make a profit. It doesn't say
you can charge money. If I read the wrong lisense, please
post a URL of the correct one.
At any rate, it's fairly difficult to conclusively demonstrate
that Medievia is a profit generating enterprise. I know that
V bought a big spanking machine to host it (way overkill and
pretty expensive). He's also been buying advertising ads.
I have no idea how much one can legally claim as 'business
expenses' but I'll assume it's substatial.
Add to that what you have already said. It's easy as pie to
get a god char. And god chars, get 'free' don eq.
The Don eq can either be purchased with cash or received
for services (the services rendered as having a god char).
Kurt Schwind/Cestus
Håvard Lindheim
> Address: telnet://grimne.pvv.ntnu.no:4000 (129.241.210.220 4000)
> Home Page: http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/grimne/
Those work, but please update to telnet grimne.org 4000 /
www.grimne.org.
Thanks!
--
Dante @ Grimne