Medievia
Edmund Smith
I've played over 2400 hrs...actually fuck nearly 2450
and the reason i play isnt because of the gods (they
generally suck) or the zones (most of them suck) or
any of that shit but because med has a lot of cool
players and all that cra[ vryce talks about balance is
true.
Everytime my newbie gets frozen for something shit
like cursing (yah vryce wasnt lying about being serious
about it...and bashing other players and clans illegal ...
its fuckin lame if u ask me but nm) i try to move to a
different MUD and all i find a sea of empty muds.
I tried ROD and thats MUCH lamer....all this 'deadly'
flag crap...what the fuck is the point in a max level char
oif u cant use it to beat the fuck out of hapless newbies?
I worked hard to get a near max stat hero, now i wanna
kill ppl with it.
I dont wanna play a game on my own...i can buy final
fantasy for that, i dont wanna play a 'nice' game (altho
med is becoming generally too nice) and i dont wanna
sit around pretending to be a fuckin carpenter (yes
RP, MUSHes, MOOs all that shit all suck).
Fact is Med is a BIG game where you can be actively
NASTY to people and power trip on having this elite char
its taken you so long to make. And thats why most of the
biggest clans (>10 ppl online all the time) keep going:
theyre filled with ppl who feel like this.
And as for whether Med is Diku...I always thought that
whole story was pretty suspicious (you cant talk about this
on med btw the word diku is flagged and if they dont like
ur conversation its a deletable offense). But really, i mean
when u cut to the chase...why should i give a fuck? so med
is diku..so fuckin what...u cant prove shit and all ur doin
is sittin around wasting ur time writing shit to a board that
only u sad fucks read. U arent gonna take ppl away from
Med...none of u has a mud worth shit anyway.
So ya get a fuckin life. And yes u can reply to this email
addy and feel free to flame. Franky i fuckin care.
Later
Butt Ko Witz
<ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
[...snipped the rants of an uneducated self-centered oaf...]
Your little speech truely says it all. Through poor grammer and
rampent cursing you have accomplished nothing other than the obvious
-- pointing out that you are in fact a self-centered ignorant ass.
You hate med. You hate all other muds. You hate med's gods. You don't
care about the Diku issues. You like your power trip, until frozen for
cursing anyway. You don't want anyone else potentially ruining _your_
little spot in the virtual world. And you believe we're all being
childish and stupid for raising mature arguments, points of view,
facts, etc. about the Diku issue. NOT the issue of "Is Med fun?" or
"Is Med big?" or "Can you power trip on Med with a vocabulary that
doesn't exceed 4 letter words?".
If you can't comprehend the issue at hand, then simply stfu and return
to your double-xp'd "l337" character and all the fame I'm sure it
brings. No one here is arguing over if Med is fun and if you are
Elite! The topic is ethics, morals and legalities over copyright
issues.
Oma
Ryan
"Edmund Smith" <ice...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:39D12417...@btinternet.com...
> I think ur all missing the point about med
> I've played over 2400 hrs...actually fuck nearly 2450
> and the reason i play isnt because of the gods (they
> generally suck) or the zones (most of them suck) or
> any of that shit but because med has a lot of cool
> players and all that cra[ vryce talks about balance is
> true.
>
cool players...thats everywhere.
> Everytime my newbie gets frozen for something shit
> like cursing (yah vryce wasnt lying about being serious
> about it...and bashing other players and clans illegal ...
> its fuckin lame if u ask me but nm) i try to move to a
> different MUD and all i find a sea of empty muds.
>
for a sea of empty muds, yeah there are a lot, most never make it to
playable status because some bored kid buys server space downloads ROM and
type make...and thats it. There are many good muds that actually follow the
policy set by the original Diku team.
> I tried ROD and thats MUCH lamer....all this 'deadly'
> flag crap...what the fuck is the point in a max level char
> oif u cant use it to beat the fuck out of hapless newbies?
> I worked hard to get a near max stat hero, now i wanna
> kill ppl with it.
>
constantly are finding new ways to improve the code without explioting money
from their players. And that mud is not a pure PK mud, which is why they
have deadly flags. And killing newbies are your thing eh? so your a twink
with no skill in pk. Killing newbies is what kills a mud, would you want to
stay on a mud where you die not even knowing the basic premise of the joint?
Hell no.
> I dont wanna play a game on my own...i can buy final
> fantasy for that, i dont wanna play a 'nice' game (altho
> med is becoming generally too nice) and i dont wanna
> sit around pretending to be a fuckin carpenter (yes
> RP, MUSHes, MOOs all that shit all suck).
>
You dont wanna play a "nice mud" so play godwars or goto arctic and start in
solace. Neither is nice and sense you love killing newbies i'm sure you
would be right at home watching your character get butchered by people with
a lot more ability than you.
> Fact is Med is a BIG game where you can be actively
> NASTY to people and power trip on having this elite char
> its taken you so long to make. And thats why most of the
> biggest clans (>10 ppl online all the time) keep going:
> theyre filled with ppl who feel like this.
>
Again your a twink
> And as for whether Med is Diku...I always thought that
> whole story was pretty suspicious (you cant talk about this
> on med btw the word diku is flagged and if they dont like
> ur conversation its a deletable offense). But really, i mean
> when u cut to the chase...why should i give a fuck? so med
> is diku..so fuckin what...u cant prove shit and all ur doin
> is sittin around wasting ur time writing shit to a board that
> only u sad fucks read. U arent gonna take ppl away from
> Med...none of u has a mud worth shit anyway.
>
Damn you are the troll aint ya. Med is obviously diku deriv and if it wasnt
why would diku be a flagged word? is big bad vryce afraid to face facts?
Given that he is a capable coder, given his mud is large and obviously has a
lot of fun content, but the fact remains is he cheating the mud community by
stealing code and saying its his. Nobody wants to take players away from
Med, if they are happy then they are happy. Everyone just wants Vyrce to
stop taking "donations" and but the credits in the log on screen.
Myles L Skinner
Edmund Smith <ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> A pleasing and upfront character analysis. I can spell and punctuate
> reasonably well by the way, but seeing as I assumed the audience
> were mudders I chose to skip the formalities.
Do you mean you deliberately decided to present yourself as someone who is
only semi-literate? Why would anyone *want* to make a first impression like
that? How very odd.
Er, sorry, to put it into genosprach for you:
bog, fear ur flappy post,,,,,laf!
ms
--
Covenant MUD: "Our Silent Supporters Can Beat Up Your Silent Supporters!"
Freedom
*swoon* I haven't seen that term used since my very beginnings in muds, how
wonderful =)
-Freedom
Edmund Smith
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:32:55 +0100, Edmund Smith
> <ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> [...snipped the rants of an uneducated self-centered oaf...]
>
> Your little speech truely says it all. Through poor grammer and
> rampent cursing you have accomplished nothing other than the obvious
> -- pointing out that you are in fact a self-centered ignorant ass.
A pleasing and upfront character analysis. I can spell and punctuate
reasonably well by the way, but seeing as I assumed the audience
were mudders I chose to skip the formalities. (It's 'rampant' by the
way).
> You hate med. You hate all other muds. You hate med's gods. You don't
> care about the Diku issues. You like your power trip, until frozen for
> cursing anyway. You don't want anyone else potentially ruining _your_
> little spot in the virtual world. And you believe we're all being
> childish and stupid for raising mature arguments, points of view,
> facts, etc. about the Diku issue. NOT the issue of "Is Med fun?" or
> "Is Med big?" or "Can you power trip on Med with a vocabulary that
> doesn't exceed 4 letter words?".
I have to hand it to you, you really got to the heart of it, although I
question
the maturity of niggling over pedantic copy issues. The DIKU team are
represented on the title screens of countless MUDs, theres no real need
for their fame to be spread any further. Perhaps in the purest sense
their
work in creating (allegedly) the basis of Medievia should be acknowledged
but really this seems like a storm in a teacup to me. That this issue is
worthy
of the hours and obvious anger it provokes in some of the people here is
to be doubted in the extreme. Perhaps I was simply appealing for
perspective in my own special way.
> If you can't comprehend the issue at hand, then simply stfu and return
> to your double-xp'd "l337" character and all the fame I'm sure it
> brings. No one here is arguing over if Med is fun and if you are
> Elite! The topic is ethics, morals and legalities over copyright
> issues.
The debate in this newsgroup seems to take the form of "Med is Baaaaad,
Free is Gooood" in many cases. If Vryce needs to take donation items in
order to support Medievia and make it grow, and if he needs this
convenient
fiction of a rewrite in order to be able to do that, then really what
harm is there?
Medievia is (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) the largest MUD currently
running, and this in my view is not unconnected with the cash inflow it
receives.
> Oma
THE Omawarisan? How cool! I'm quite proud that my post got flamed by so
distinguished an ex-immortal from Medievia. Althought doubtless after
your
retiring you will go the way of the Necromium team and fade into
obscurity
and a normal life.
Edmund Smith
I shall continue it apace.
Ryan wrote:
[Edited out the bits I dont wish to reply to!]
> > I tried ROD and thats MUCH lamer....all this 'deadly'
> > flag crap...what the fuck is the point in a max level char
> > oif u cant use it to beat the fuck out of hapless newbies?
> > I worked hard to get a near max stat hero, now i wanna
> > kill ppl with it.
> >
> ROD is lame in YOUR opionion. That mud has a HUGE playerbase and they
> constantly are finding new ways to improve the code without explioting money
> from their players. And that mud is not a pure PK mud, which is why they
> have deadly flags. And killing newbies are your thing eh? so your a twink
> with no skill in pk. Killing newbies is what kills a mud, would you want to
> stay on a mud where you die not even knowing the basic premise of the joint?
> Hell no.
I think skill in PK and executing newbies are different things. Certainly I've
met
people who lack skill who only PK newbies, but then again I've met seriously
elite players who PK newbies too, usually to boost the PK counter a little
higher.
Its only really newbies who try to draw that correlation IMO :)
As for staying on a MUD where you get killed when you barely know whats going
on,
clearly your 'Hell no' is innacurate because plainly I did. I don't really feel
killing
newbies is what kills a MUD in my personal experience (which I admit not to be
vast). In general what I see is newbies staying out of PK areas after they
learn the
hard way a few times, or accepting the risks. What kills a MUD is boredom and
a lack of ways to entertain maximum level characters. Once you've finished
xping
there has to be something to do or people drift away.
> > I dont wanna play a game on my own...i can buy final
> > fantasy for that, i dont wanna play a 'nice' game (altho
> > med is becoming generally too nice) and i dont wanna
> > sit around pretending to be a fuckin carpenter (yes
> > RP, MUSHes, MOOs all that shit all suck).
> >
> You dont wanna play a "nice mud" so play godwars or goto arctic and start in
> solace. Neither is nice and sense you love killing newbies i'm sure you
> would be right at home watching your character get butchered by people with
> a lot more ability than you.
I haven't heard of these MUDs but I'll be sure to try them if someone can
give me an URL or whatever. I don't particularly being butchered by people
with better stats than me (Yes once again you slipped into the pejorative)
but it is that experience that makes it so enjoyable when you finally scramble
to the top of the heap.
> > Fact is Med is a BIG game where you can be actively
> > NASTY to people and power trip on having this elite char
> > its taken you so long to make. And thats why most of the
> > biggest clans (>10 ppl online all the time) keep going:
> > theyre filled with ppl who feel like this.
> >
> Again your a twink
Please enlighten me as to what exactly a 'twink' is. Its not an insult
I'm familiar with. As far as my assessment of the driving force behind
the larger clans in Medievia goes, I stand by it wholeheartedly. Whether
or not you personally approve of this kind of gameplay, it is this style
that most really skilled players adopt.
> > And as for whether Med is Diku...I always thought that
> > whole story was pretty suspicious (you cant talk about this
> > on med btw the word diku is flagged and if they dont like
> > ur conversation its a deletable offense). But really, i mean
> > when u cut to the chase...why should i give a fuck? so med
> > is diku..so fuckin what...u cant prove shit and all ur doin
> > is sittin around wasting ur time writing shit to a board that
> > only u sad fucks read. U arent gonna take ppl away from
> > Med...none of u has a mud worth shit anyway.
> >
> Damn you are the troll aint ya. Med is obviously diku deriv and if it wasnt
> why would diku be a flagged word? is big bad vryce afraid to face facts?
> Given that he is a capable coder, given his mud is large and obviously has a
> lot of fun content, but the fact remains is he cheating the mud community by
> stealing code and saying its his. Nobody wants to take players away from
> Med, if they are happy then they are happy. Everyone just wants Vyrce to
> stop taking "donations" and but the credits in the log on screen.
Vryce might well flag the word 'Diku 'so that he has a constant watch on
people slandering him on his own game of course, if he speaks truly of
Medievia's
origins. The real truth is that neither I nor you know who wrote the source for
Medievia 3, and certainly with DikuMUD being available as source he isn't
liable to
allegations of reverse engineering. As for takiing donations, as I mentioned
in the
other reply I wrote, what real difference does it make? Noone is forced to
donate,
amd furthermore donation items can be bought inside the game from other players
using game money. If a constant supply of cash is what it takes to make a MUD
that is worthwhile (Its true that I'm not overfond of Medievia's "Big Brother"
style
of administration and that I would happily play another MUD if I could find one
of comparable content - the fact is there isn't one) then really I'm glad
Medievia
has such a supply of cash. It is a game after all and the ultimate judge of a
game
io how much fun it is. In reality, I see a huge number of people growing older
but
not wiser bickering over a few lines of text and a 'convenient arrangement'
that
doesn't really appear to affect them in any way.
> > So ya get a fuckin life. And yes u can reply to this email
> > addy and feel free to flame. Franky i fuckin care.
> >
> > Later
> >
A particularly apt ending, exuding charm as is my wont.
Fredfish
>
> Your little speech truely says it all. Through poor grammer and
> rampent cursing you have accomplished nothing other than the obvious
> -- pointing out that you are in fact a self-centered ignorant ass.
>
> care about the Diku issues. You like your power trip, until frozen for
> cursing anyway. You don't want anyone else potentially ruining _your_
> little spot in the virtual world. And you believe we're all being
> childish and stupid for raising mature arguments, points of view,
> facts, etc. about the Diku issue. NOT the issue of "Is Med fun?" or
> "Is Med big?" or "Can you power trip on Med with a vocabulary that
> doesn't exceed 4 letter words?".
>
> to your double-xp'd "l337" character and all the fame I'm sure it
> brings. No one here is arguing over if Med is fun and if you are
> Elite! The topic is ethics, morals and legalities over copyright
> issues.
>
Dude! Don't mock him. He *IS* l337. ph33r him.
Don't you wish you could just open a big can of SHUT UP on some people?
Edmund Smith
Sounds good.
Lasse A Vartiainen
> Ryan wrote:
> > You dont wanna play a "nice mud" so play godwars or goto arctic
> > and start in solace. Neither is nice and sense you love killing
> > newbies i'm sure you would be right at home watching your
> > character get butchered by people with a lot more ability than
> > you.
> I haven't heard of these MUDs but I'll be sure to try them if someone can
> give me an URL or whatever. I don't particularly being butchered by people
Of Godwars I know but little, since during last seven years haven't
much left from Arctic.
mud.arctic.org 2700 or 204.107.140.52 2700
http://www.arctic.org/
Dragonlance theme, original zones, 40-150 players online, focus on
zoning, with the risk of pkilling always present.
Equipment means a lot, is limited and rare; only way to become
toughest is to kill and loot elite eq. Lot of clans and conflicts,
yet lone pkillers have found their niche as well.
For a newbie it's, uhm, a challenging place; player experience counted in
wipes (about once a year), and high level chars normally having 1-3
weeks online time.
Lasse
--
l...@iki.fi : Not for ourselves but for the world we have been born into.
Fredrik Lännergren
/Fredrik
Butt Ko Witz
First I find it amusing how your initial post is so filled with
vulgarity and trollish anger, yet later posts from you are more mature
and thought out. There 2 Edwards?...
And about the comment about me fading necronium<sp> like I could care
less. I didn't quit to raise eyebrows or gain fame for going
"anti-Med". Indeed I am not against Medievia, which I thoroughly
enjoy. But I am against what V has chosen to do, namely calling
something that is _not_ his work HIS work.
Anywho, it seems pointless to discuss this with you, who deems
personal pleasure above ethics and morals -- let alone legalities.
Oma
Drifter
news:39D12417...@btinternet.com...
> I think ur all missing the point about med
<rant snipped>
Sigh. Yet another thread ranting about Medthievia...
Here's an idea... Lets make a newsgroup just for
this rant?! rofl. I know, nobody will buy that, but
was a nice thought.. Let the ranters rant at each
other that cares. (Not saying I don't care, but this
is 99% recycled crap...old arguements get... old?!)
Drifter
Arizhel
)
> I think skill in PK and executing newbies are different things.
Certainly I've
> met
> people who lack skill who only PK newbies, but then again I've met
seriously
> elite players who PK newbies too, usually to boost the PK counter a
little
> higher.
I think PK'ing newbies in general is just plain silly.
Of course, I'm one of those people, on the rare occasion
that I do play PK muds, that hunts down people that hunt
down newbies ;)
> Its only really newbies who try to draw that correlation IMO :)
>
> As for staying on a MUD where you get killed when you barely know
whats going
> on,
> clearly your 'Hell no' is innacurate because plainly I did.
You're an exception, then. Kudos to you for sticking it out. :)
> I don't really feel killing
> newbies is what kills a MUD in my personal experience (which I admit
not to be
> vast). In general what I see is newbies staying out of PK areas after
they
> learn the
> hard way a few times, or accepting the risks. What kills a MUD is
boredom and
> a lack of ways to entertain maximum level characters. Once you've
finished
> xping
> there has to be something to do or people drift away.
Dunno, I've been on the same MUD for almost 6 years now.
I've done all there is to do there. I've owned every piece
of equipment that its possible to load, and many of them
that are quest-only. I've found that, all in all, after you
have done everything, all there is to come back to is exping.
And actually, from what I've seen, killing off and otherwise
discouraging new people from joining the MUD community is
ultimately what causes it to stagnate and die. I understand
the boredom of having many many powerful pieces of equipment
and maxed-out characters. If you're creative, you can find
ways to entertain yourself, however. :)
Whether
> or not you personally approve of this kind of gameplay, it is this
style
> that most really skilled players adopt.
I myself am held as a highly skilled mudder. This is not the
style that I have adopted. Granted, that could be because I
don't play pure PK muds (limited PK is more fun IMHO; I don't
need to hunt newbies to have fun), but it could just be because
I'm not a completely self-important, pompous ass.
> > > And as for whether Med is Diku...I always thought that
> > > whole story was pretty suspicious (you cant talk about this
> > > on med btw the word diku is flagged and if they dont like
> > > ur conversation its a deletable offense).
If that's not a huge red flag, I don't know what is.
> > > But really, i mean
> > > when u cut to the chase...why should i give a fuck? so med
> > > is diku..so fuckin what...u cant prove shit and all ur doin
> > > is sittin around wasting ur time writing shit to a board that
> > > only u sad fucks read.
Well, apparently you took the time to read it. :)
> > > U arent gonna take ppl away from
> > > Med...none of u has a mud worth shit anyway.
This guy is kind of reminiscent of Appledesia or whoever that was..
"Oh, okay, maybe its Diku, but who gives a shit? It's fun
for me, so I don't *care*!"
Damn, I wish I had no morals so I could be like this. :)
> > Damn you are the troll aint ya. Med is obviously diku deriv and if
it wasnt
> > why would diku be a flagged word? is big bad vryce afraid to face
facts?
Yeah, he is.
They always are.
> > Given that he is a capable coder, given his mud is large and
obviously has a
> > lot of fun content, but the fact remains is he cheating the mud
community by
> > stealing code and saying its his. Nobody wants to take players away
from
> > Med, if they are happy then they are happy.
No kidding. If they are happy with the admin and the gameplay,
that's all good. Vryce's wrongdoing has nothing to do with whether
or not the MUD is a fun place. I've seen some MUDs that were fun
to play, but the admin was downright corrupt. I left them, because
to me, the *people* make the MUD.
> of administration and that I would happily play another MUD if I
could find one
>
> of comparable content - the fact is there isn't one) then really I'm
glad
> Medievia
> has such a supply of cash. It is a game after all and the ultimate
judge of a
> game
> io how much fun it is.
Don't you think, if he is indeed a coder of any worth whatsoever,
that he could manage to make it fun *without* ripping off other
people? Actually, I suppose not. That would require ethics. :)
In reality, I see a huge number of people growing older
> but
> not wiser bickering over a few lines of text and a 'convenient
arrangement'
> that
> doesn't really appear to affect them in any way.
A few lines of text is not the issue.
The DikuMUD codebase is, as is their license agreement.
>
> > > So ya get a fuckin life. And yes u can reply to this email
> > > addy and feel free to flame. Franky i fuckin care.
> > >
> > > Later
> > >
>
> A particularly apt ending, exuding charm as is my wont.
So .. basically..
Your attitude sums up to: it's fun for me, the hell with
anyone and everyone else.
Twink. :)
-Ariz
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Arizhel -- a.k.a. Arie Taylor <ari...@yahoo.com>
There are three basic types of people: Those who make things happen,
those who watch things happen, & those who wonder what the hell happened
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jon Lemon
[snip some pretty standard pro-med arguments]
>
>
> And as for whether Med is Diku...I always thought that
> whole story was pretty suspicious (you cant talk about this
> on med btw the word diku is flagged and if they dont like
> ur conversation its a deletable offense). But really, i mean
> when u cut to the chase...why should i give a fuck? so med
> is diku..so fuckin what...u cant prove shit and all ur doin
> is sittin around wasting ur time writing shit to a board that
> only u sad fucks read. U arent gonna take ppl away from
> Med...none of u has a mud worth shit anyway.
>
About diku being flagged, I *highly* doubt it is (perhaps Oma could
correct me if I'm wrong), I've been on with Soliel and Ikuska both
online, and I've "discussed" the issue several times with my friends
from my clan, and I've yet to get into any sort of trouble. Er, besides
no longer being considered for a god position :) I suppose my friendly
conversation with Soliel in the news group here a while ago had
something
to do with that. :)
> So ya get a fuckin life. And yes u can reply to this email
> addy and feel free to flame. Franky i fuckin care.
>
> Later
-Koryon
Aaron Reynolds
Edmund Smith <ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> But really, i mean
> when u cut to the chase...why should i give a fuck?
Well, Edmund, since you feel that way about it, please direct me to
your own work, so I can take it, add to it a bit and then get people to
give me money for it, claiming it to be all mine. Your argument
says you don't care, so show me that you really don't.
Clifford
Edmund Smith
> Dunno, I've been on the same MUD for almost 6 years now.
> I've done all there is to do there. I've owned every piece
> of equipment that its possible to load, and many of them
> that are quest-only. I've found that, all in all, after you
> have done everything, all there is to come back to is exping.
> And actually, from what I've seen, killing off and otherwise
> discouraging new people from joining the MUD community is
> ultimately what causes it to stagnate and die. I understand
> the boredom of having many many powerful pieces of equipment
> and maxed-out characters. If you're creative, you can find
> ways to entertain yourself, however. :)
I'm only at 2 years on Medievia so I'll get back to you when I've
been playing 6 years on whether it comes back to xping. I strongly
suspect I'll quit before then if that is the case since xping is really
not my thing. I would say also that friends of mine who have played
over a comparable length of time to you don't seem to spend their
time xping, and in fact many appear to detest xping in the extreme.
Just a thought.
> Whether
> > or not you personally approve of this kind of gameplay, it is this
> style
> > that most really skilled players adopt.
>
> I myself am held as a highly skilled mudder. This is not the
> style that I have adopted. Granted, that could be because I
> don't play pure PK muds (limited PK is more fun IMHO; I don't
> need to hunt newbies to have fun), but it could just be because
> I'm not a completely self-important, pompous ass.
I can only really speak with any degree of authority about Medievia
players and I take it you prefer to stay away from Med. Perhaps the
situation is different elsewhere. I personally don't consider xping to
be a measure of skill however..IMO the greatest measure of skill
is CPKing.... (Killing people and looting them).I don't claim any degree
of eliteness as some of you seem to think. But on the other hand, I
feel I have avoided being lame too :)
> > > > And as for whether Med is Diku...I always thought that
> > > > whole story was pretty suspicious (you cant talk about this
> > > > on med btw the word diku is flagged and if they dont like
> > > > ur conversation its a deletable offense).
>
> If that's not a huge red flag, I don't know what is.
I did respond to the author on this. While I admit its not a sign that
Vryce wants to talk openly about it on his MUD, that doesn't
necessarily mean Medievia is Diku. After all, if he really did rewrite
the whole thing then he's being slandered by the ignorant masses.
Think about it :)
> > > > But really, i mean
> > > > when u cut to the chase...why should i give a fuck? so med
> > > > is diku..so fuckin what...u cant prove shit and all ur doin
> > > > is sittin around wasting ur time writing shit to a board that
> > > > only u sad fucks read.
>
> Well, apparently you took the time to read it. :)
>
I was reading the anti med web page that i found by accident searching
for Medievia clan pages on yahoo :) It piqued my curiosity.
> > > > U arent gonna take ppl away from
> > > > Med...none of u has a mud worth shit anyway.
>
> This guy is kind of reminiscent of Appledesia or whoever that was..
> "Oh, okay, maybe its Diku, but who gives a shit? It's fun
> for me, so I don't *care*!"
> Damn, I wish I had no morals so I could be like this. :)
While she is a particularly friendly and worthwhile person
I wouldn't want parallels to be drawn between us. I guess I don't really
feel this theft of intellectual property you all are claiming is so dire.
In many ways this whole argument reminds me of the 'Look and Feel'
lawsuit launched by Apple against Micro$oft that lead to the boycotting
of Apple machines by free software groups. Its ironic that a component
of the same people behave in identical fashion when the situation is
reversed. Perhaps you all should start listening to yourselves :)
[Stuff snipped that i answered elsewhere]
> > > Given that he is a capable coder, given his mud is large and
> obviously has a
> > > lot of fun content, but the fact remains is he cheating the mud
> community by
> > > stealing code and saying its his. Nobody wants to take players away
> from
> > > Med, if they are happy then they are happy.
>
> No kidding. If they are happy with the admin and the gameplay,
> that's all good. Vryce's wrongdoing has nothing to do with whether
> or not the MUD is a fun place. I've seen some MUDs that were fun
> to play, but the admin was downright corrupt. I left them, because
> to me, the *people* make the MUD.
Naturally the people make the MUD. It just depends which people
you think are important. Players are what make a MUD IMO and the
admin are simply an irritation to ignore as best possible.
> > of administration and that I would happily play another MUD if I
> could find one
> >
> > of comparable content - the fact is there isn't one) then really I'm
> glad
> > Medievia
> > has such a supply of cash. It is a game after all and the ultimate
> judge of a
> > game
> > io how much fun it is.
>
> Don't you think, if he is indeed a coder of any worth whatsoever,
> that he could manage to make it fun *without* ripping off other
> people? Actually, I suppose not. That would require ethics. :)
I read emotive phrases like 'ripping off other people' and I think
to myself 'Man, Vryce is so evil'. But then if you actually think about
what you're saying it doesn't make any sense. Who is he ripping off?
By deleting a couple of names from a title screen he's suddenly ripping
people off? Or perhaps he's ripping players who voluntarily donated
money to Medievia off? Certainly it isn't those players who are
complaining.
> In reality, I see a huge number of people growing older
> > but
> > not wiser bickering over a few lines of text and a 'convenient
> arrangement'
> > that
> > doesn't really appear to affect them in any way.
>
> A few lines of text is not the issue.
> The DikuMUD codebase is, as is their license agreement.
I think you're either ignoring what I said or missing the point :)
What in reality would Vryce have to do to please the mob? Add
a few lines of text to his title screen. The donation fiction is not in
unequivocal violation of Diku license agreement. Noone so far
has managed to show in any form that Vryce is making a profit
or that Med is being 'sold'. The phrasing of the donation agreement
is very careful and while I agree his donation plan is not in the SPIRIT
of the license I sincerely doubt that even the best lawyers could
show that it is in BREACH of that license.
> >
> > > So ya get a fuckin life. And yes u can reply to this email
> > > > addy and feel free to flame. Franky i fuckin care.
> > > >
> > > > Later
> > > >
> >
> > A particularly apt ending, exuding charm as is my wont.
>
> So .. basically..
> Your attitude sums up to: it's fun for me, the hell with
> anyone and everyone else.
> Twink. :)
> -Ariz
Please God someone tell me what a 'twink' is please!
Edmund Smith
> About diku being flagged, I *highly* doubt it is (perhaps Oma could
> correct me if I'm wrong), I've been on with Soliel and Ikuska both
> online, and I've "discussed" the issue several times with my friends
> from my clan, and I've yet to get into any sort of trouble. Er, besides
> no longer being considered for a god position :) I suppose my friendly
> conversation with Soliel in the news group here a while ago had
> something
> to do with that. :)
You might be right, but explain how it was that a guy who was chatting
on form to me about Omawarisan quitting said Diku a few times then
disappeared in a mushroom cloud (God transferrd him). When I asked
a few friends they said that Diku is a flagged word. I have no reason to
doubt this since there are much better known examples of flagged words
and so a flagging system is in operation. (Any bored people try typing
moogooboozoo (once a cheat) and lordcock (aka Zachary's infamous
website) and note that the line doesn't even echo.
Farix
Edmund Smith <ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> I did respond to the author on this. While I admit its not a sign that
> Vryce wants to talk openly about it on his MUD, that doesn't
> necessarily mean Medievia is Diku. After all, if he really did rewrite
> the whole thing then he's being slandered by the ignorant masses.
> Think about it :)
The fact that he hasn't sued anyone for slander should indicate that
any allegations of slander are false.
Wait, that what Vryce says about they Diku Team not suing over
copyright infringements.
> I guess I don't really
> feel this theft of intellectual property you all are claiming is so
dire.
Spoken like a true liberal. Have you been taking lessons from
Clinton? This isn't about feelings, this is strictly about right and
wrong and the law.
> In many ways this whole argument reminds me of the 'Look and Feel'
> lawsuit launched by Apple against Micro$oft that lead to the
boycotting
> of Apple machines by free software groups. Its ironic that a component
> of the same people behave in identical fashion when the situation is
> reversed. Perhaps you all should start listening to yourselves :)
Unlike the Apple vs. Microsoft case, this isn't about look and feel; it
is about code theft. Which is a completely different ball game.
> I think you're either ignoring what I said or missing the point :)
> What in reality would Vryce have to do to please the mob? Add
> a few lines of text to his title screen. The donation fiction is not
in
> unequivocal violation of Diku license agreement.
The Diku Team believes so. So do many others. Only the Medievia
players say that it is not a violation -- if they claim that Medievia
is a Diku mud at all.
> Noone so far
> has managed to show in any form that Vryce is making a profit
> or that Med is being 'sold'.
That would be a bit difficult since Vryce isn't going to give us any
hard numbers on his expenses and how much revenue he generates from the
"donations".
> The phrasing of the donation agreement
> is very careful and while I agree his donation plan is not in the
SPIRIT
> of the license I sincerely doubt that even the best lawyers could
> show that it is in BREACH of that license.
Anyone who takes a look at the Medievia's donation system and says that
nothing is being sold has got to be kidding themselves. High-powered
equiment is being solded on Medievia every day, and for real money.
Farix
--
"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to
take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a
government grows, liberty decreases." -- Thomas Jefferson
sthrn...@my-deja.com
term "twink", btw?
Arizhel
>
> > Whether
> > > or not you personally approve of this kind of gameplay, it is this
> > style
> > > that most really skilled players adopt.
> >
> > I myself am held as a highly skilled mudder. This is not the
> > style that I have adopted. Granted, that could be because I
> > don't play pure PK muds (limited PK is more fun IMHO; I don't
> > need to hunt newbies to have fun), but it could just be because
> > I'm not a completely self-important, pompous ass.
>
> I can only really speak with any degree of authority about Medievia
> players and I take it you prefer to stay away from Med. Perhaps the
> situation is different elsewhere. I personally don't consider xping to
> be a measure of skill however..IMO the greatest measure of skill
> is CPKing.... (Killing people and looting them).I don't claim any
degree
> of eliteness as some of you seem to think. But on the other hand, I
> feel I have avoided being lame too :)
I don't see exping as a measure of skill. I didn't say that it
was. I'm simply bored with conquering everything on the MUD
multiple times, so I'm running a character to perfect (8 remorts,
with the penalty to exp getting harsher every remort.. I'm on 6
this time through).
As for PK'ing, yes, you can consider it a measure of skill. I'm
not so great at it, being out of practice. I've played more than
a few PK muds (full PK and limited PK), and found that I prefer
either limited or no PK. I prefer to work with people and figure
out new and fun ways to work with group dynamics as far as the
classes and the people that I group with when we go out into the
world to go exping or go eq hunting.
I also prefer, if there is any PK involved, that the
players do *not* get to loot each other. Otherwise you just end
up with a bunch of naked characters casting spells at each other
in the PK arena (which, granted, is funny, but not quite what I
look for when I go there), or hordes of people ganging up on one
person, just to loot their gear, then falling to fighting amongst
themselves over it. I don't speak out against PK or against looting
other players corpses (except on MUDs where it is against policy,
of course), it's simply not my cup of tea.
I also never said you were lame. I said you were a pompous ass. :)
>
> > > > > And as for whether Med is Diku...I always thought that
> > > > > whole story was pretty suspicious (you cant talk about this
> > > > > on med btw the word diku is flagged and if they dont like
> > > > > ur conversation its a deletable offense).
> >
> > If that's not a huge red flag, I don't know what is.
>
> I did respond to the author on this. While I admit its not a sign that
> Vryce wants to talk openly about it on his MUD, that doesn't
> necessarily mean Medievia is Diku. After all, if he really did rewrite
> the whole thing then he's being slandered by the ignorant masses.
> Think about it :)
If he really DID rewrite it, then why doesn't he come forward
with irrefutable (or hell, with ANY) evidence of such?
Think about it. :)
> I read emotive phrases like 'ripping off other people' and I think
> to myself 'Man, Vryce is so evil'. But then if you actually think
about
> what you're saying it doesn't make any sense. Who is he ripping off?
> By deleting a couple of names from a title screen he's suddenly
ripping
> people off? Or perhaps he's ripping players who voluntarily donated
> money to Medievia off? Certainly it isn't those players who are
> complaining.
He's ripped off their code, yep. Not necessarily a monetary loss,
mind you. He's taken hours upon hours of their work and made it
essentially into a mockery by claiming that it is his own.
> I think you're either ignoring what I said or missing the point :)
> What in reality would Vryce have to do to please the mob? Add
> a few lines of text to his title screen. The donation fiction is not
If it's not such a big deal, why doesn't he just add it??
Geez, it's not like it would take him hours of involved coding
to add some freaking names to the login prompt or to the
"help credits" file!
Edmund Smith
By the way for completeness I should mention that these e-mails I'm
reliably informed aren't by the REAL Omawarisan and this is in fact
a FakeOma(tm). In fact, so my new information goes, Omawarisan hasn't
quit and is still working on Med. So.... I mean its quite lame to talk
shit
about something that doesnt even vaguely affect you and to fill the air
with half-truths and so forth. But actually impersonating someone else
is just pathetic.
I rescind my comments about Oma fading away since clearly his fame
grows daily and it is merely the FAKE Oma disappearing into the
wilderness.
Laterz
Ice
"Its OK to have donation items sold on a MUD regardless of its origins" -
A. Lincoln
Edmund Smith
> In article <39D2306C...@btinternet.com>,
> Edmund Smith <ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> > I did respond to the author on this. While I admit its not a sign that
> > Vryce wants to talk openly about it on his MUD, that doesn't
> > necessarily mean Medievia is Diku. After all, if he really did rewrite
> > the whole thing then he's being slandered by the ignorant masses.
> > Think about it :)
>
> The fact that he hasn't sued anyone for slander should indicate that
> any allegations of slander are false.
I wouldn't apply to study law any time soon :) It might simply be that
these allegations are so worthless they aren't worth the money it
would cost to prosecute a case. Money perhaps better spent on
actually making the MUD go :p
> Wait, that what Vryce says about they Diku Team not suing over
> copyright infringements.
The major difference perhaps being that Vryce doesn't talk shit all the
time like you guys. If the Diku team feel this strongly why aren't they
pressing the case? Vryce might not think your accusations worth it but
the team certainly seem to think V's alleged infringements are.
> > I guess I don't really
> > feel this theft of intellectual property you all are claiming is so
> dire.
>
> Spoken like a true liberal. Have you been taking lessons from
> Clinton? This isn't about feelings, this is strictly about right and
> wrong and the law.
I think if you quote that out of context then its easy to take apart. It
originally was a defence of my attitude toward these claims you make.
In the previous e-mail I was attacked for not really giving a shit about
this whole deal. So, nice quoting but no real point being made here.
'Right' and 'Wrong' and the 'Law' are none of them written in stone.
What you really mean is what you feel to be correct behaviour. If you
feel there is a case to be made legally then perhaps you should pursue it
:)
> > In many ways this whole argument reminds me of the 'Look and Feel'
> > lawsuit launched by Apple against Micro$oft that lead to the
> boycotting
> > of Apple machines by free software groups. Its ironic that a component
> > of the same people behave in identical fashion when the situation is
> > reversed. Perhaps you all should start listening to yourselves :)
>
> Unlike the Apple vs. Microsoft case, this isn't about look and feel; it
> is about code theft. Which is a completely different ball game.
Medievia looks like a DIkuMUD, it FEELS like a DikuMUD. Neither of us
have seen the code. So you tell me how you know its code theft? :) More
noises in the wind without any real basis in fact.
> > I think you're either ignoring what I said or missing the point :)
> > What in reality would Vryce have to do to please the mob? Add
> > a few lines of text to his title screen. The donation fiction is not
> in
> > unequivocal violation of Diku license agreement.
>
> The Diku Team believes so. So do many others. Only the Medievia
> players say that it is not a violation -- if they claim that Medievia
> is a Diku mud at all.
All these people who agree with you and yet not one lawsuit launched
so far. In a country as litigious as the modern USA it seems hard to
credit. This is the country where a woman spilling coffee in her lap at
a drive thru can be the basis for a successfull lawsuit and yet your
whole army of followers have failed to launch a single suit.
> > Noone so far
> > has managed to show in any form that Vryce is making a profit
> > or that Med is being 'sold'.
>
> That would be a bit difficult since Vryce isn't going to give us any
> hard numbers on his expenses and how much revenue he generates from the
> "donations".
I think you're just agreeing with me.
> > The phrasing of the donation agreement
> > is very careful and while I agree his donation plan is not in the
> SPIRIT
> > of the license I sincerely doubt that even the best lawyers could
> > show that it is in BREACH of that license.
>
> Anyone who takes a look at the Medievia's donation system and says that
> nothing is being sold has got to be kidding themselves. High-powered
> equiment is being solded on Medievia every day, and for real money.
I suggest you log onto Medievia and read help donations :) I know many
players who have never spent a penny on Medievia. You make this sound
like the dramatic ending to a news report from a warzone. So people are
donating to Medievia every day and receiving high powered equipment?
I don't think anyone would deny that. The real question is why this has
any significance whatsoever. If you donate to a charity and receive a
badge...even a HIGH POWERED badge does that make the charity a
corporate interest? Wake up :p
Ice
Arizhel
> All these people who agree with you and yet not one lawsuit launched
> so far. In a country as litigious as the modern USA it seems hard to
> credit. This is the country where a woman spilling coffee in her lap
at
> a drive thru can be the basis for a successfull lawsuit and yet your
> whole army of followers have failed to launch a single suit.
The Diku team themselves are not from the US. I'm not
entirely sure how relevant that is to the point at hand,
but I just thought I'd point it out. It could, however,
partially explain why they haven't launched a lawsuit.
Chris Chambliss
>In article <B5F6D160.1A7F%fre...@buckeye-express.com>,
> Freedom <fre...@buckeye-express.com> wrote:
>> >> Again your a twink
>>
>> *swoon* I haven't seen that term used since my very beginnings in
>muds, how
>> wonderful =)
>>
>Seriously? I hear it daily. Anyone know the origins of the
>term "twink", btw?
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
I believe it originated with the EverQuest community, as that was
where I heard it most prevalently, although if it started before EQ, I
don't know, just my guess.
Arizhel
The term "twink" has been around long before EQ was even thought of.
I first heard the term in 1995 on a MUSH called TinyTIM *lol*.
As for what it means, I gathered that it's someone that's basically
an annoyance at best... Someone that has no clue and has no intentions
of ever getting one. :)
I guess it's sort of like calling someone a "dork". *shrug*
I'm sure there's an actual meaning to it, though I don't know
it, as it was probably invented years before I started in on
the internet in 95. ;)
-Ariz
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Arizhel -- a.k.a. Arie Taylor <ari...@yahoo.com>
There are three basic types of people: Those who make things happen,
those who watch things happen, & those who wonder what the hell happened
flet...@post.queensu.ca
>> Anyone know the origins of the term "twink", btw?
> where I heard it most prevalently, although if it started before EQ, I
> don't know, just my guess.
thoughts. I first heard it back in the early to mid-80s when I was
in my AD&D phase. It often came in the same (or next) sentence as
'Monty Haul'.
It's been most prevalant in the mudding community over the past ten years
as 'Monty Haul' appears to have fallen out of favour (fewer people getting
the reference I expect) of late.
Ae.
Butt Ko Witz
A twinked character is a newbie that's been given excellent equipment,
gold, etc. Thus allowing said newbie a HUGE advantage over normal game
play.
Joe the newbie takes 2 weeks to get to level 20.
Fred the twink takes 12 hours to get to level 20.
Twink.. usually meant as an insult "you twinked peice o'crap!" until
one twinks their own newbie then it's "man I rock, I twinked my newbie
with l337 s4337z".
Oma
Sarenthalanos
"Fredrik Lännergren" <fredrik.l...@epk.ericsson.se> wrote in message
news:8qs7im$qku$1...@newstoo.ericsson.se...
> Thanks for the troll, it's been awhile.
>
> /Fredrik
>
I have to disagree. This one, however accurately displaying the behaviours
of a troll, is actually something far more vile, and far more inane.
He's a sock-monkey.
Sarenthalanos
<flet...@post.queensu.ca> wrote in message
news:8qtp2c$76u$1...@knot.queensu.ca...
> In a general waste of bytes, Chris wrote:
> >> Anyone know the origins of the term "twink", btw?
> > I believe it originated with the EverQuest community, as that was
> > where I heard it most prevalently, although if it started before EQ, I
> > don't know, just my guess.
> It's been around since _long_ before EQ was a wet dream in someone's
> thoughts. I first heard it back in the early to mid-80s when I was
> in my AD&D phase. It often came in the same (or next) sentence as
> 'Monty Haul'.
Basically, it has the same aspects. However 'twink' (aka, Twinkie Kid),
kind of players don't care about RPing anything, they are out to just make
levels and such, and hoard them over others like a status symbol. Generally
a nuisance, I take great pleasure in pulling them into the public execution
pit at Wasted Lands and executing them in various and humorous ways (after
they have been causing a disturbance and have gotten a couple of warnings or
such).
To a twinkie kid, role-playing is a foreign concept. It gets in their way
of making levels and hoarding their might over those under them. These
people are usually rarely seen, as they are laughed out of most serious
gaming sessions and often form groups of their own. Blizzard capitalized on
twinkdom with Diablo and Diablo 2, with a defined Monty Haul system, and
skewed the hell out of what RPG games are supposed to be like (I've tried to
host a session where one of the players was 'introduced' to RPG games by
Diablo. Everyone else cheered when he was shish-kabob'ed onto an orc's pike
while charging him from horseback and wielding a short sword.)
Those who know the various kinds of players will know that "ABC Killer" also
describes a twink. If it lives, it must be killed. No reason WHY it must
be killed, but it must die. Most possibly, if the storekeepers and citizens
of the main cities could be killed, then they too would die as well.
Butt Ko Witz
<ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>By the way for completeness I should mention that these e-mails I'm
>reliably informed aren't by the REAL Omawarisan and this is in fact
>a FakeOma(tm). In fact, so my new information goes, Omawarisan hasn't
>quit and is still working on Med. So.... I mean its quite lame to talk
>shit
>about something that doesnt even vaguely affect you and to fill the air
>with half-truths and so forth. But actually impersonating someone else
>is just pathetic.
>
>I rescind my comments about Oma fading away since clearly his fame
>grows daily and it is merely the FAKE Oma disappearing into the
>wilderness.
>
>Laterz
>
>Ice
Well one thing I AM 100% sure of, I am the one and only human being
that has "controlled" the character "Omawarisan" on the mud Medievia.
My email is gp...@oz.net, mud_mas...@yahoo.com, and
tard...@yahoo.com. Previously o...@medievia.com and
omawa...@medievia.com, as well as go...@paragon.net. Throughout my
time on med I have always been on oz.net, although for a short while
(4.5 months) in 1997 I was on paragon.net.
I am Gordy Pine, who is and always has been Omawarisan on Medievia.
As most anyone who knows Oma knows I'm a mud master freak, and my
mud-master page is www.oz.net/~gpine/med/MudMaster.
As well some very old web pages I had for some of my quests are at
www.oz.net/~gpine/med/
Your sources for the "FAKE Oma" are about as reliable and truthful as
the comments in the code claming DIKU work as the property of
Medievia.
I quit, somewhat quietly (I didn't make a scene in game), over issues
I feel need resolving. Mainly code theft, lack of credits, breaking
the copyright agreement, etc.
I'm all for Medievia, and even making money -- as long as it's within
the copyright agreement that Mike Krause is LEGALLY responsible to
follow seeing how Medievia IV is based upon DIKU/Merc code. Let alone
ethically and morally.
He has stolen code and claimed it as his property and work. This is
quite simply wrong. Regardless of how fun medievia is. Regardless of
how many additional lines of code medievia has produced. Regardless of
how "loyal" and large the player base is.
I am confident that Medievia IV indeed to this day contains DIKU/Merc
code. And I will no support Medievia until such time that these issues
are cleared up.
Not hiding behind Deja-Vu, news.oz.net, troll.
Oma
Butt Ko Witz
Why create a police state (above and beyond it's simplistic state)?
moogooboozoo is a special "word", and isn't a cheat although if I
recall it was useable to look at the mobs who's Name flag was
"moogooboozoo", which wasn't suppose to function (one wasn't suppose
to know the word, nor even knowing/using it be able to use it for
combat, look at, etc).
Again, I doubt diku has been flagged, LordCock might be filtered, but
I don't know about that either and really care less if it was or
wasn't.
Besides, if med was going to flag words, why not flag vulgarities? As
anti-cursing as it is, this would seem something that would exist IF
"flagged" words actually existed. Which, again, I doubt they do.
Oma
Sarenthalanos
"Butt Ko Witz" <tard...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8qttnd$gjn$0...@216.39.145.189...
Here's another page for reference, http://www.furcadia.com/pixel/twink.htm
It's written by someone who has been M*ing for about as long as I have
(since late 80's), and that help file is for a game written and created by
the one and only Dr. Cat (Ultima, M*ing, etc. He's been around a long time,
let's just say that....)
Freedom
who wanted things the easy way, I think we should get all skills at lvl 1, I
think my class should have this superskill, it was definitely an insult, and
me and some of the other frequents used to sit around "dreaming" of creating
a twink mud to satisfy the frequent requests for these things :p
I guess the way I saw it was someone who wanted the above while in Oma's
experiences it was someone who got them.
Freedom
Chris Chambliss
>In a general waste of bytes, Chris wrote:
>>> Anyone know the origins of the term "twink", btw?
>> I believe it originated with the EverQuest community, as that was
>> where I heard it most prevalently, although if it started before EQ, I
>> don't know, just my guess.
>It's been around since _long_ before EQ was a wet dream in someone's
>thoughts. I first heard it back in the early to mid-80s when I was
>in my AD&D phase. It often came in the same (or next) sentence as
>'Monty Haul'.
>
>It's been most prevalant in the mudding community over the past ten years
>as 'Monty Haul' appears to have fallen out of favour (fewer people getting
>the reference I expect) of late.
>
>Ae.
I stand corrected. :)
Ryan
It would take an enourmous amount of time and resources. Since the diku code
is given freely with the only expectation is that you give the original
coders credit, the only thing they could get is forcing vryce to put credits
in the log-in screen. As for the donation, that would have to stop, but
since they are donations it would be hard to proove exactly how much he has
taken in. That being said, it would be hard to make him pay it back or pay
taxes on it.
Now what disturbs me is you not giving a rats ass on whether its diku code
or not. How would you feel if you poured your heart and soul into something
only to have someone else claim the credit. Think of Alexander Graham Bell
and the telephone. He got to the patent office scant hours before someone
else. (this is a bad example) but Mr. bell gets to go down in history as
the man who invented the telephone, the other guy is now nameless. You said
earlier that why should we keep on giving credit to the creators when the
code is so old or that they already had the fame they deserved... something
to that effect. The reason they have the fame they so rightly deserve is
because some people actually followed the requests and gave them credit. In
fact nearly ALL diku derived mud put it in, that is why everyone is so
pissed that Vyrce disregards it so.
Oh yeah as for proof that is is diku derived....try looking at KaVir's page,
i find it highly humorous myself.news:39D29164...@btinternet.com...
> Arizhel wrote:
>
> >
> > The Diku team themselves are not from the US. I'm not
> > entirely sure how relevant that is to the point at hand,
> > but I just thought I'd point it out. It could, however,
> > partially explain why they haven't launched a lawsuit.
> > -Ariz
>
> really care about this whole pathetic war you're waging. They'd much
> rather get on with productive things like making MUDs. Or
> perhaps they agree with you but don't think its worth the time and
> effort to prosecute. Of course I don't know this for a fact, but
> it seems to me unlikely that regardless of what country they lived
> in, had they cared to launch a lawsuit, they certainly could have done.
>
> This whole issue is considered irrelevant and outdated by everyone
> at the heart of it I strongly suspect. Whats left is a clique of bitter
> admins
> arguing over points that are of no merit nor practical use of themselves,
> while the world moves on past them.
>
> Ice
>
Edmund Smith
> (snipped and junk)
> >
> > > Whether
> > > > or not you personally approve of this kind of gameplay, it is this
> > > style
> > > > that most really skilled players adopt.
> > >
> > > I myself am held as a highly skilled mudder. This is not the
> > > style that I have adopted. Granted, that could be because I
> > > don't play pure PK muds (limited PK is more fun IMHO; I don't
> > > need to hunt newbies to have fun), but it could just be because
> > > I'm not a completely self-important, pompous ass.
> >
> > I can only really speak with any degree of authority about Medievia
> > players and I take it you prefer to stay away from Med. Perhaps the
> > situation is different elsewhere. I personally don't consider xping to
> > be a measure of skill however..IMO the greatest measure of skill
> > is CPKing.... (Killing people and looting them).I don't claim any
> degree
> > of eliteness as some of you seem to think. But on the other hand, I
> > feel I have avoided being lame too :)
>
> I don't see exping as a measure of skill. I didn't say that it
> was. I'm simply bored with conquering everything on the MUD
> multiple times, so I'm running a character to perfect (8 remorts,
> with the penalty to exp getting harsher every remort.. I'm on 6
> this time through).
>
> As for PK'ing, yes, you can consider it a measure of skill. I'm
> not so great at it, being out of practice. I've played more than
> a few PK muds (full PK and limited PK), and found that I prefer
> either limited or no PK. I prefer to work with people and figure
> out new and fun ways to work with group dynamics as far as the
> classes and the people that I group with when we go out into the
> world to go exping or go eq hunting.
>
> I also prefer, if there is any PK involved, that the
> players do *not* get to loot each other. Otherwise you just end
> up with a bunch of naked characters casting spells at each other
> in the PK arena (which, granted, is funny, but not quite what I
> look for when I go there), or hordes of people ganging up on one
> person, just to loot their gear, then falling to fighting amongst
> themselves over it. I don't speak out against PK or against looting
> other players corpses (except on MUDs where it is against policy,
> of course), it's simply not my cup of tea.
>
> I also never said you were lame. I said you were a pompous ass. :)
Laff fuck you too :) There is a trend of being unable to separate the
arguments from the people putting them forward. I suggest you read
up on it (argumentum ad hominum). Also frankly you sound like a
fucking goon to me. I don't know who holds you as a skilled mudder
but you don't sound like one by my estimation, regardless of years/hours
epochs or xp difficulties.
> >
> > > > > > And as for whether Med is Diku...I always thought that
> > > > > > whole story was pretty suspicious (you cant talk about this
> > > > > > on med btw the word diku is flagged and if they dont like
> > > > > > ur conversation its a deletable offense).
> > >
> > > If that's not a huge red flag, I don't know what is.
> >
> > I did respond to the author on this. While I admit its not a sign that
> > Vryce wants to talk openly about it on his MUD, that doesn't
> > necessarily mean Medievia is Diku. After all, if he really did rewrite
> > the whole thing then he's being slandered by the ignorant masses.
> > Think about it :)
>
> If he really DID rewrite it, then why doesn't he come forward
> with irrefutable (or hell, with ANY) evidence of such?
> Think about it. :)
What would constitute evidence in your book? Releasing his source
code? I am thinking about it and I don't see any evidence to back
your claims whatsoever...and as is always the case the burden of
proof is upon the prosecution.
> > I read emotive phrases like 'ripping off other people' and I think
> > to myself 'Man, Vryce is so evil'. But then if you actually think
> about
> > what you're saying it doesn't make any sense. Who is he ripping off?
> > By deleting a couple of names from a title screen he's suddenly
> ripping
> > people off? Or perhaps he's ripping players who voluntarily donated
> > money to Medievia off? Certainly it isn't those players who are
> > complaining.
>
> He's ripped off their code, yep. Not necessarily a monetary loss,
> mind you. He's taken hours upon hours of their work and made it
> essentially into a mockery by claiming that it is his own.
Its a mockery of their code to have a large MUD full of people enjoying
themselves? You say he's taken hours of their work and is claming its his
own, but in reality this is how progress works...each advance is built on
the
previous ones. Noone mentions lawsuits when someone releases a new
PC and doesnt credit the original IBM team. The IBM prototype has been
superceded and built on to a level where it is no longer recognisable as
the
original product. This is analagous with the situation with Med and Diku.
Med is far larger than than Diku was and to claim that Med is in some way
a production of the original team is absurd, in exactly the same way as
claiming all books are a product of Caxton.
> > I think you're either ignoring what I said or missing the point :)
> > What in reality would Vryce have to do to please the mob? Add
> > a few lines of text to his title screen. The donation fiction is not
>
> If it's not such a big deal, why doesn't he just add it??
> Geez, it's not like it would take him hours of involved coding
> to add some freaking names to the login prompt or to the
> "help credits" file!
> -Ariz
Yes once again you quote me out of context and attempt to pick holes
in something that was not intended this way. Wby should he add the names
of the Diku team if he did rewrite it? Even if he didnt, why really does
this
matter at all? The real truth is there is a large MUD, perhaps the last
really successful MUD out there and its under fire from underachieving,
jaded sys admins from other MUDs who would settle for any means to
level the playing field that their own inadequacy has tilted. This is just
a means to that and frankly even if V gave in and did all the things you
want you would simply find something else to pick at.
I've been watching with horror as my posts have taken a more and more
pro Medievia slant. It probably sounds like I'm dead set in favour of Med.
The simple fact is that its the only MUD I've found so far that is really
worth playing. I don't think its even nearly perfect, and even as i write
this I continue to look for a better MUD to play on. The only reason my
posts have become so skewed is the rabid attacks by individuals who
totally lack perspective have led to the eliciting of only pro-Medievia
views that I hold.
Ice
Edmund Smith
> By the way for completeness I should mention that these e-mails I'm
> reliably informed aren't by the REAL Omawarisan and this is in fact
> a FakeOma(tm). In fact, so my new information goes, Omawarisan hasn't
> quit and is still working on Med. So.... I mean its quite lame to talk
> shit
> about something that doesnt even vaguely affect you and to fill the air
> with half-truths and so forth. But actually impersonating someone else
> is just pathetic.
>
> I rescind my comments about Oma fading away since clearly his fame
> grows daily and it is merely the FAKE Oma disappearing into the
> wilderness.
>
> Laterz
>
> Ice
>
> "Its OK to have donation items sold on a MUD regardless of its origins" -
> A. Lincoln
Uhm....It appears this IS the real Omawarisan! My, how confusing! But yes,
I now hear from the same reliable source that he was in fact talking rubbish
:)
So Oma really is destined to fade away like the Necromium team. And it
could have been so much cooler.
Ice
"Selling donation items is the biggest key to success' - M. Gandi.
Steve Hilberg
>On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 19:36:37 GMT, sthrn...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>In article <B5F6D160.1A7F%fre...@buckeye-express.com>,
>> Freedom <fre...@buckeye-express.com> wrote:
>>> >> Again your a twink
>>>
>>> *swoon* I haven't seen that term used since my very beginnings in
>>muds, how
>>> wonderful =)
>>>
>>term "twink", btw?
>I believe it originated with the EverQuest community, as that was
>where I heard it most prevalently, although if it started before EQ, I
>don't know, just my guess.
Say what? "Twink" is has a long history in the pen-and-paper RPG industry
since the mid-80s at least. Everquest....bah.
--
Steve Hilberg <Necromancer> CCSO Workstation Support Group
<hil...@uiuc.edu> KB9TEV
SDMI is DIVX all over again. CCSO _still_ doesn't pay me enough to
Didn't we just play this game? speak for them, so I still don't.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"And if He ever suffered, it was me who did His crying...."
-- Concrete Blonde, "Tomorrow Wendy"
Edmund Smith
missa...@my-deja.com
"Sarenthalanos" <Sarent...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have to disagree. This one, however accurately displaying the
behaviours
> of a troll, is actually something far more vile, and far more inane.
>
> He's a sock-monkey.
>
> http://qitelremel.ca.webjump.com/Sock-Monkey.htm
>
missa...@my-deja.com
tard...@yahoo.com (Butt Ko Witz) wrote:
> I highly doubt "DIKU" is a "flagged" word. Why waste the resources?
> Besides, if med was going to flag words, why not flag vulgarities? As
> anti-cursing as it is, this would seem something that would exist IF
> "flagged" words actually existed. Which, again, I doubt they do.
>
> Oma
>
When the anti-cursing policy was being established, the idea of a
filter was brought up. It was considered far too resource-intensive to
implement, so now the gods have tools like saylog, shoutlog, immlog,
praylog, (insert name of channel here)log to help them find proof of
offenders. The very idea that any (current) Medievia god would be
smart enough to "grep saylog <char name> diku" scares me ... But it
certainly doesn't surprise me. Personally, I far prefer a filter over
the nazi attitude displayed now - load newbies with the filter set on,
and if they change it, it's not your problem. That's pretty much what
Everquest does - if someone curses at you, you're told to turn the
filter on if you complain. Either grow a thicker skin or let the game
deal with the offensive profanities that so offend.
And by the way, he *is* the real Oma. To even insinuate that he isn't
shows just what a huge newbie you are.
rr...@lanminds.com
>In article <B5F6D160.1A7F%fre...@buckeye-express.com>,
> Freedom <fre...@buckeye-express.com> wrote:
>> >> Again your a twink
>>
>> *swoon* I haven't seen that term used since my very beginnings in
>muds, how
>> wonderful =)
>>
>Seriously? I hear it daily. Anyone know the origins of the
>term "twink", btw?
>
From http://www.science.uva.nl/~mes/jargon/t/twink.html
twink: /twink/ n. 1. [Berkeley] A clue-repellant user; the next step
beyond a clueless one. 2. [UCSC] A read-only user. Also reported on
the Usenet group soc.motss; may derive from gay slang for a cute young
thing with nothing upstairs (compare mainstream `chick').
Kira Skydancer
Butt Ko Witz
<ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Uhm....It appears this IS the real Omawarisan! My, how confusing! But yes,
>I now hear from the same reliable source that he was in fact talking rubbish
>:)
God you are such a tard. Now you're "reliable sources" inform you that
I AM Omawarisan, but I'm talking trash. Before I wasn't Omawarisan.
Now that you're sure I am, then I must be "talking trash". If you want
some reliable sources go look at KaVir's page -- instead of relying
upon yourself for your "sources". Take a long hard look at the
quotations from Micheal Seifert and in particular from Hans-Henrik
Staerfeldt. How do you think Hans-Henrik feels about this? That quote,
Han-Henrik's, was the one of the strongest deciding factors in my
self-removal from Medievia. Do you write? Do you code? Do you do
anything that is YOUR'S? Do you share your hard work with others?
Would you be happy with Mike Krause, because well medievia rocks!, if
you were on the Diku team? Would you be happy with Mike Krause if you
ran a Diku/Merc mud only to find the Diku team stopped supporting
"public" work? Nah, I'm sure you'd be pissed, or you'd be another Mike
and thumb your nose across the Atlantic at those who's work you've
pilfered.
Seen a lot of tards around there, but you take the cake. Not only
can't you see the point of the issue, but you can't keep on track of
your own views for argument's sake. Your swapping opinions as fast as
a politician brown-nosing for votes.
>So Oma really is destined to fade away like the Necromium team. And it
>could have been so much cooler.
>
>Ice
I was already fading away. I was tired of running quests (spam gets
old after a while). I was tired of a lack of new quests from the
abundant "quest gods" that are now on Med. I was long ago bored with
xp'n. Although I did enjoy my friends on med, and I did enjoy logging
into Med, helping when I could or just when I wanted to (volunteer,
don't forget that). I did and still do enjoy scripting and making
silly things to entertain not only myself but others in Medievia.
I'm not fading away, nor am I going to fade away. I removed myself. I
am finished. And newbie that you are, I doubt you even know anything
about any ties between anyone, god or mort, on Necromium and any
relation to Medievia. Other than rumors from your "reliable sources".
Hence your "fade away like the Necromium team" comment has no merits.
I left over personal beliefs, I have absolutely nothing against
Medievia as a mud, nothing against any players or gods over this issue
-- other than wishing they had enough morals and ethicsl to do what I
believe is right, that being not supporting Mike Krause's actions in
the Diku matter via a peaceful protest. I do however find that I
cannot support what Mike Krause has chosen to do with the issue over
Medievia's theft of, and claims to, Diku/Merc code. Personal beliefs,
which many people here on rgmd also hold. Moral, ethical issues. The
legalites are beyond me, as I'm mostly ignorant of copyright laws --
nor do I have a stake with the legal issues (although I would surely
support them).
Awaiting your next U-turn post,
Oma
p.s. I will add that I really can't believe more gods haven't the
morals and ethics to also lead them to remove themselves. Surely some
have looked into this, surely some have SEEN the code. Ethics, morals
-- on a mud, on the net? ..well guess that's asking too much.
kast...@my-deja.com
sthrn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <B5F6D160.1A7F%fre...@buckeye-express.com>,
> Freedom <fre...@buckeye-express.com> wrote:
> > >> Again your a twink
> >
> > *swoon* I haven't seen that term used since my very beginnings in
> > muds, how
> > wonderful =)
> >
> Seriously? I hear it daily. Anyone know the origins of the
> term "twink", btw?
ISTR that the word "twink" was brought about by the XTrek/Netrek
community, and was used to describe someone that played in a non-
constructive way (i.e: went around butt-torping everyone and did
nothing for the game itself).
Kas.
Fredrik Lännergren
*snip*
>> He's ripped off their code, yep. Not necessarily a monetary loss,
>> mind you. He's taken hours upon hours of their work and made it
>> essentially into a mockery by claiming that it is his own.
>
>Its a mockery of their code to have a large MUD full of people enjoying
>themselves? You say he's taken hours of their work and is claming its his
>own, but in reality this is how progress works...each advance is built on
>the
>previous ones. Noone mentions lawsuits when someone releases a new
>PC and doesnt credit the original IBM team. The IBM prototype has been
>superceded and built on to a level where it is no longer recognisable as
>the
>original product. This is analagous with the situation with Med and Diku.
>Med is far larger than than Diku was and to claim that Med is in some way
>a production of the original team is absurd, in exactly the same way as
>claiming all books are a product of Caxton.
Uh, you lost me there....Because Med has more lines of code and players than
the original first Diku MUD, the license agreement doesn't apply anymore?
Then I suppose that if I made a company larger than Microsoft, selling more
software than they do, I can ignore all license agreements and take the
tidbits I want from any software company in the world, because "I don't
make a mockery of them"?
Or, how do you mean, really?
/Fredrik
Aaron Reynolds
Edmund Smith <ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Medievia looks like a DIkuMUD, it FEELS like a DikuMUD.
Neither of us
> have seen the code. So you tell me how you know its code theft?
:) More
> noises in the wind without any real basis in fact.
Didn't you just post that you now believe that Oma's posts are
really coming from Oma?
You haven't read any of the evidence, have you?
Please see http://www.kavir.dial.pipex.com/med.html
Come back after reading the evidence, and then please dispute
the evidence itself, rather than saying that there isn't any.
You flip-flop, and you troll. Now your defense is that we're bitter
and jealous. We've all seen these posts before, and when you
sink to "I don't have to dispute the evidence, because you're just
jealous" it's obvious that you can't dispute the evidence and are
grasping at straws. If this is not the case, please look at KaVir's
page and then come back to discuss the evidence.
Clifford
AxL
Edmund Smith <ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Arizhel wrote:
>> The Diku team themselves are not from the US. I'm not
>> entirely sure how relevant that is to the point at hand,
>> but I just thought I'd point it out. It could, however,
>> partially explain why they haven't launched a lawsuit.
>> -Ariz
>
>Let me suggest an alternative explanation. The Diku team don't
>really care about this whole pathetic war you're waging. They'd much
>rather get on with productive things like making MUDs. Or
>perhaps they agree with you but don't think its worth the time and
>effort to prosecute.
It isn't a question of "worth", it is a question of having the
time to do it at all. They have had many acrimonious discussions with
Mr. Krause over the years, and the only things that have prevented them
from taking legal action are time and resources. People have real jobs
and real lives that they cannot put on hold to mount a lawsuit. This is
the unfortunate reality that many normal people face when pondering
filing a lawsuit, this isn't just a "Diku team" thing.
>Of course I don't know this for a fact,
Of course not. Heaven forbid you investigate the _facts_ before
opening your mouth.
>but
>it seems to me unlikely that regardless of what country they lived
>in, had they cared to launch a lawsuit, they certainly could have done.
As stated above, they do care, vut are simply unable to do
anything legally at this time.
>This whole issue is considered irrelevant and outdated by everyone
>at the heart of it I strongly suspect. Whats left is a clique of bitter
>admins
>arguing over points that are of no merit nor practical use of themselves,
>while the world moves on past them.
Believe what you want (sock monkey? twit? troll? I can't
quite decide what to call you), but there are many people here that
feel that what Krause and Medthievia has done is wrong. I'd love to see
a lawsuit go forth, but until that comes true, I and others will keep
the light shining on this situation.
--
-AxL, a...@wpcr.plymouth.edu "In Christianity, neither morality nor religion
a...@mail.plymouth.edu Come into contact with reality at any point."
http://mindwarp.plymouth.edu/~axl - Nietzsche
Arizhel
> Laff fuck you too :) There is a trend of being unable to separate the
> arguments from the people putting them forward. I suggest you read
> up on it (argumentum ad hominum). Also frankly you sound like a
> fucking goon to me. I don't know who holds you as a skilled mudder
> but you don't sound like one by my estimation, regardless of
years/hours
> epochs or xp difficulties.
Oh no, the troll called me a fucking goon. :)
I suppose I'm supposed to be like, offended or something, and
not laughing my ass off like I am.
And let me rehash again: exp has nothing to do with skill. I
never said it did. Time spent on a mud doesn't have a whole
lot to do with skill, either. I've seen people that have been
mudding for ten years that I'd still classify as newbies. The
ability to learn and apply what you learn is what makes a
skilled mudder, IMHO.
> posts have become so skewed is the rabid attacks by individuals who
> totally lack perspective have led to the eliciting of only pro-
Medievia
> views that I hold.
What's funny is the trend I've seen on this ng is that the
"rabid" attacks were usually started by some inane and/or
"rabid" post by a pro-Medthievia twink. :)
-Ariz
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Arizhel -- a.k.a. Arie Taylor <ari...@yahoo.com>
There are three basic types of people: Those who make things happen,
those who watch things happen, & those who wonder what the hell happened
Arizhel
"Sarenthalanos" <Sarent...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote:
>
message
> news:8qs7im$qku$1...@newstoo.ericsson.se...
> > Thanks for the troll, it's been awhile.
> >
> > /Fredrik
> >
>
behaviours
> of a troll, is actually something far more vile, and far more inane.
>
> He's a sock-monkey.
>
> http://qitelremel.ca.webjump.com/Sock-Monkey.htm
>
>
ROFLMAO
That's great! :)
rr...@lanminds.com
>p.s. I will add that I really can't believe more gods haven't the
>morals and ethics to also lead them to remove themselves. Surely some
>have looked into this, surely some have SEEN the code. Ethics, morals
>-- on a mud, on the net? ..well guess that's asking too much.
I was talking to a friend about this idea, in general, and he made the
pithy comment that most people have morals as long as it's convenient
for them to. But when push comes to shove...
Kira Skydancer
Farix
Edmund Smith <ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Farix wrote:
>
> > In article <39D2306C...@btinternet.com>,
> > Edmund Smith <ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I did respond to the author on this. While I admit its not a sign
that
> > > Vryce wants to talk openly about it on his MUD, that doesn't
> > > necessarily mean Medievia is Diku. After all, if he really did
rewrite
> > > the whole thing then he's being slandered by the ignorant masses.
> > > Think about it :)
> >
> > any allegations of slander are false.
>
> I wouldn't apply to study law any time soon :) It might simply be that
> these allegations are so worthless they aren't worth the money it
> would cost to prosecute a case. Money perhaps better spent on
> actually making the MUD go :p
Then why are you complaining so hard about slander?
> > Wait, that what Vryce says about they Diku Team not suing over
> > copyright infringements.
>
> The major difference perhaps being that Vryce doesn't talk shit all
the
> time like you guys. If the Diku team feel this strongly why aren't
they
> pressing the case? Vryce might not think your accusations worth it but
> the team certainly seem to think V's alleged infringements are.
Perhaps such a suit is to costly for the Diku Team to persue and they
have better things to do.
> > > I guess I don't really
> > > feel this theft of intellectual property you all are claiming is
so
> > dire.
> >
> > Spoken like a true liberal. Have you been taking lessons from
> > Clinton? This isn't about feelings, this is strictly about right
and
> > wrong and the law.
>
> I think if you quote that out of context then its easy to take apart.
It
> originally was a defence of my attitude toward these claims you make.
"If I think it is not serious but others thinks it is serious, then it
is not serious because I say so." That is basicly what you are saying.
> In the previous e-mail I was attacked for not really giving a shit
about
> this whole deal.
We are not dealing with personal email. We are in a public forum. I
can't respond to anything you received privetly in email.
> So, nice quoting but no real point being made here.
As is your entire arguement.
> 'Right' and 'Wrong' and the 'Law' are none of them written in stone.
> What you really mean is what you feel to be correct behaviour.
There use to be a thing call morality and honor, which rarely changes
over time. Most of us have it. However, Vryce and yourself don't
appear to have any as you clearly think that what is "fun" should take
president over everything else.
> If you
> feel there is a case to be made legally then perhaps you should
pursue it
> :)
It is not our position to take any legal action, but it is in our
position to spread the information about the violations of the
license. The later of which is what you have been complaining about.
Your best defense has been, "I don't care," which has already been shot
down.
Just because you don't care does not make it any less relevant.
> > > In many ways this whole argument reminds me of the 'Look and Feel'
> > > lawsuit launched by Apple against Micro$oft that lead to the
> > boycotting
> > > of Apple machines by free software groups. Its ironic that a
component
> > > of the same people behave in identical fashion when the situation
is
> > > reversed. Perhaps you all should start listening to yourselves :)
> >
> > Unlike the Apple vs. Microsoft case, this isn't about look and
feel; it
> > is about code theft. Which is a completely different ball game.
>
> Medievia looks like a DIkuMUD, it FEELS like a DikuMUD. Neither of us
> have seen the code. So you tell me how you know its code theft? :)
More
> noises in the wind without any real basis in fact.
>
> > > I think you're either ignoring what I said or missing the point :)
> > > What in reality would Vryce have to do to please the mob? Add
> > > a few lines of text to his title screen. The donation fiction is
not
> > in
> > > unequivocal violation of Diku license agreement.
> >
> > The Diku Team believes so. So do many others. Only the Medievia
> > players say that it is not a violation -- if they claim that
Medievia
> > is a Diku mud at all.
>
> All these people who agree with you and yet not one lawsuit launched
> so far. In a country as litigious as the modern USA it seems hard to
> credit. This is the country where a woman spilling coffee in her lap
at
> a drive thru can be the basis for a successfull lawsuit and yet your
> whole army of followers have failed to launch a single suit.
As it has been repeated numerous times, which you seem to ignore every
time someone give you the answer. The Diku Team won't make any money
off of the lawsuit. At best, they would break even if not lose money
in the process do to legal costs.
> > > Noone so far
> > > has managed to show in any form that Vryce is making a profit
> > > or that Med is being 'sold'.
> >
> > That would be a bit difficult since Vryce isn't going to give us any
> > hard numbers on his expenses and how much revenue he generates from
the
> > "donations".
>
> I think you're just agreeing with me.
"Because you admint that you can't get the hard numbers to prove that
Vryce is making a profit, you agree with me that he isn't making a
profit." Anyone else want to tear into that twisted logic?
Of course while we don't have the hard numbers, that doesn't mean we
can't make educated guesses based on the few numbers we do have. Just
that it would be more precise if we had those hard numbers.
> > > The phrasing of the donation agreement
> > > is very careful and while I agree his donation plan is not in the
> > SPIRIT
> > > of the license I sincerely doubt that even the best lawyers could
> > > show that it is in BREACH of that license.
> >
> > Anyone who takes a look at the Medievia's donation system and says
that
> > nothing is being sold has got to be kidding themselves. High-
powered
> > equiment is being solded on Medievia every day, and for real money.
>
> I suggest you log onto Medievia and read help donations :) I know many
> players who have never spent a penny on Medievia. You make this sound
> like the dramatic ending to a news report from a warzone. So people
are
> donating to Medievia every day and receiving high powered equipment?
> I don't think anyone would deny that. The real question is why this
has
> any significance whatsoever. If you donate to a charity and receive a
> badge...even a HIGH POWERED badge does that make the charity a
> corporate interest? Wake up :p
I think that arguement is so full of holes already that I don't need to
shoot any more into it. After all, it is the sell of advantages.
Farix
--
"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to
take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a
government grows, liberty decreases." -- Thomas Jefferson
Ces...@medievia.com
> And as for whether Med is Diku...I always thought that
> whole story was pretty suspicious (you cant talk about this
> on med btw the word diku is flagged and if they dont like
> ur conversation its a deletable offense). But really, i mean
> when u cut to the chase...why should i give a fuck? so med
> is diku..so fuckin what...u cant prove shit and all ur doin
> is sittin around wasting ur time writing shit to a board that
> only u sad fucks read. U arent gonna take ppl away from
> Med...none of u has a mud worth shit anyway.
Since when has talking about med being DIKU a deletable
offense? And how do you know it's flagged?
I've talked about DIKU on med several times over the past
several weeks. I've even had discussions on public
channels about it with Soleil. I haven't been told
that talking about it is illegal.
I guess that this is merely flame bait anyway, but it
is provable that med is DIKU. Several of the past
coders have stated that it is diku based. Even
medweb says it's derived from merc. So the proof
is actually trivial.
Kurt Schwind
sthrn...@my-deja.com
ccham...@tamu.edu wrote:
>
> I believe it originated with the EverQuest community, as that was
> where I heard it most prevalently, although if it started before EQ, I
> don't know, just my guess.
>
As others have said, it was around long before EQ. Several of EQ's
designers were at one time active players on Sojourn (where they had
a "help twink" entry in the help files and the term was in use on a
daily basis), and it may have migrated to EQ from there, but I can
assure you it didn't originate with EQ.
Ces...@medievia.com
For One: I'm not sure how you can say that the DIKU team doesn't
care. Because of this type of blatant code theft, they are no longer
releasing their code base to the public.
For Two: No matter how you slice it, Vryce is taking credit
for work he didn't do. I know that this type of thing is only going
to bother people with a sense of ethics. The truth is that there are
a lot of people that don't know what the issues are. Those that take
the time to understand the issues have two choices. The ethical
choice is to do something about it. [Quit the game. Educate others.
or whatnot.]
I encourage you to download the merc and diku lisenses. Ask
questions. Make your choice.
Kurt Schwind
sthrn...@my-deja.com
Edmund Smith <ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>
>Whats left is a clique of bitter
> admins
> arguing over points that are of no merit nor practical use of
themselves,
> while the world moves on past them.
I'm not in any clique (none of these people know who I am) nor am I an
admin, though I have been in the past, but I can see how behavior like
Vryce's harms the community at large. *Many* people will no longer
release code because of such behavior, which causes the mudding
community to stagnate. Of course, I doubt you care about the mudding
community or anything besides yourself. Bleh.
Fredfish
> In a general waste of bytes, Chris wrote:
> >> Anyone know the origins of the term "twink", btw?
> > I believe it originated with the EverQuest community, as that was
> > where I heard it most prevalently, although if it started before EQ, I
> > don't know, just my guess.
> It's been around since _long_ before EQ was a wet dream in someone's
> thoughts. I first heard it back in the early to mid-80s when I was
> in my AD&D phase. It often came in the same (or next) sentence as
> 'Monty Haul'.
>
> It's been most prevalant in the mudding community over the past ten years
> as 'Monty Haul' appears to have fallen out of favour (fewer people getting
> the reference I expect) of late.
>
> Ae.
On 'consent-based' combat MU*s I've been on, a 'twink' is someone who is
incapable of letting their precious character come to harm ('My blind, deaf,
artheritic gnome dodges all 800 railgun projectiles easily'), or, the more
advanced form, who just makes a ridiculously powerful character to begin with
(on anime based mu*s, this means playing DBZ (creates the Tycho crater by
sneezing) or Gundam Wing (80 foot robot) chars on mu*s where the standard is a
guy with a pistol, elsewhere it's playing an Ancient Gold Dragon, you know...)
It was odd to see 'twink' in a MUD context, cuz i've only seen it used on
MU*s. It's kind of hard to be more powerful then you should on a MUD...
::: Fredfish :::
Michael Mitchell
>
> flet...@post.queensu.ca wrote:
>
> > In a general waste of bytes, Chris wrote:
> > >> Anyone know the origins of the term "twink", btw?
>
>
> MU*s. It's kind of hard to be more powerful then you should on a MUD...
>
The first time I ever saw the term "twink" was playing netrek.
I don't know if it originated their or Muds.
Farix
But yes,
> >I now hear from the same reliable source that he was in fact talking
rubbish
> >:)
>
> I AM Omawarisan, but I'm talking trash. Before I wasn't Omawarisan.
> Now that you're sure I am, then I must be "talking trash". If you want
> some reliable sources go look at KaVir's page -- instead of relying
> upon yourself for your "sources". Take a long hard look at the
> quotations from Micheal Seifert and in particular from Hans-Henrik
> Staerfeldt. How do you think Hans-Henrik feels about this? That quote,
> Han-Henrik's, was the one of the strongest deciding factors in my
> self-removal from Medievia. Do you write? Do you code? Do you do
> anything that is YOUR'S? Do you share your hard work with others?
> Would you be happy with Mike Krause, because well medievia rocks!, if
> you were on the Diku team? Would you be happy with Mike Krause if you
> ran a Diku/Merc mud only to find the Diku team stopped supporting
> "public" work? Nah, I'm sure you'd be pissed, or you'd be another Mike
> and thumb your nose across the Atlantic at those who's work you've
> pilfered.
>
> Seen a lot of tards around there, but you take the cake. Not only
> can't you see the point of the issue, but you can't keep on track of
> your own views for argument's sake. Your swapping opinions as fast as
> a politician brown-nosing for votes.
Oma, this is just your typical Med-player who tries to defend Medievia
at all costs. You’ve asked us before to be more kind to them, or at
least to not flame them. But as you can see, whether we flame them or
not, they are often so fanatical in their devotion to Medievia that
they refuse to listen to the fact, if not going so far as to distort
them.
Farix
--
"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to
take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a
government grows, liberty decreases." -- Thomas Jefferson
AxL
I have to concur with the DnD people, as that is the first place
I heard it as well. One guy who played with us was constantly looking
to maximize his 'important' attribs, like strength, while gutting the
ones he though were useless, like charisma. Heh, then he'd complain
when shopkeeps charged him more money, barmaids threw ale in his face,
etc... Tiring of playing that char, he then committed suicide by
shoving an arrow in an, um, certain body orifice. (not making that up at
all). A true twink. :)
KaVir
>
> >
> > The Diku team themselves are not from the US. I'm not
> > entirely sure how relevant that is to the point at hand,
> > but I just thought I'd point it out. It could, however,
> > partially explain why they haven't launched a lawsuit.
> > -Ariz
>
> Let me suggest an alternative explanation. The Diku team don't
> really care about this whole pathetic war you're waging. They'd much
> rather get on with productive things like making MUDs.
"I have been shown the [Medievia] code...there is no doubt that it is
Diku based".
-- Michael Seifert, one of the Diku creators.
"Vryce was indeed one of the major reasons i stopped contributing to
the community, and found other places to spend my energy".
-- Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt, one of the Diku creators.
KaVir.
KaVir
> > Edmund Smith <ice...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I did respond to the author on this. While I admit its not a sign
> > > that Vryce wants to talk openly about it on his MUD, that doesn't
> > > necessarily mean Medievia is Diku. After all, if he really did
> > > rewrite the whole thing then he's being slandered by the ignorant
> > > masses. Think about it :)
> >
> > The fact that he hasn't sued anyone for slander should indicate that
> > any allegations of slander are false.
>
> I wouldn't apply to study law any time soon :) It might simply be that
> these allegations are so worthless they aren't worth the money it
> would cost to prosecute a case. Money perhaps better spent on
> actually making the MUD go :p
Actually Vryce DID threaten legal action against me, unless I removed
the code from my site. Why would he threaten legal action for that,
but not my other comments, if those comments really were slander?
> > Wait, that what Vryce says about they Diku Team not suing over
> > copyright infringements.
>
> The major difference perhaps being that Vryce doesn't talk shit all
> the time like you guys.
You mean the same Vryce who claims to have innovated everything new in
the mudding world in the last 10 years? The same Vryce who has
alternately claimed his mud was started in 1990, 1991 or 1992 (in fact
his mud was started in 1993)? The same Vryce who states in his bio
that his most memorable moment was the grand opening of Medievia IV in
1994 (despite the fact that the main webpage states it opened in 1996)?
> If the Diku team feel this strongly why aren't they pressing the
> case? Vryce might not think your accusations worth it but the team
> certainly seem to think V's alleged infringements are.
I've covered repeatedly on usenet and have also covered it on my
webpage. Why won't you people do a little research before posting?
> > > I guess I don't really feel this theft of intellectual property
> > > you all are claiming is so
> > > dire.
> > Spoken like a true liberal. Have you been taking lessons from
> > Clinton? This isn't about feelings, this is strictly about right
> > and wrong and the law.
>
> I think if you quote that out of context then its easy to take apart.
> It originally was a defence of my attitude toward these claims you
> make. In the previous e-mail I was attacked for not really giving a
> shit about this whole deal. So, nice quoting but no real point being
> made here. 'Right' and 'Wrong' and the 'Law' are none of them written
> in stone. What you really mean is what you feel to be correct
> behaviour. If you feel there is a case to be made legally then
> perhaps you should pursue it
We are not the copyright holders.
> > > In many ways this whole argument reminds me of the 'Look and Feel'
> > > lawsuit launched by Apple against Micro$oft that lead to the
> > > boycotting of Apple machines by free software groups. Its ironic
> > > that a component of the same people behave in identical fashion
> > > when the situation is reversed. Perhaps you all should start
> > > listening to yourselves :)
> >
> > Unlike the Apple vs. Microsoft case, this isn't about look and
> > feel; it is about code theft. Which is a completely different ball
> > game.
>
> Medievia looks like a DIkuMUD, it FEELS like a DikuMUD. Neither of us
> have seen the code. So you tell me how you know its code theft? :)
> More noises in the wind without any real basis in fact.
Actually quite a few of us (including me) HAVE seen the code. In
addition, Thranz (a former Medievia coder) quit Medievia not long ago.
He stated this: "I left because I didn't want any more of my work (at
the code level and the building level) associated with Medievia.com. I
don't need code comparisons or audits or God to come down to Earth to
know who is telling the truth. The code is DIKU, I know because I
*worked* on the code".
> > > I think you're either ignoring what I said or missing the point :)
> > > What in reality would Vryce have to do to please the mob? Add
> > > a few lines of text to his title screen. The donation fiction is
> > > not in unequivocal violation of Diku license agreement.
> >
> > The Diku Team believes so. So do many others. Only the Medievia
> > players say that it is not a violation -- if they claim that
> > Medievia is a Diku mud at all.
>
> All these people who agree with you and yet not one lawsuit launched
> so far. In a country as litigious as the modern USA it seems hard to
> credit. This is the country where a woman spilling coffee in her lap
> at a drive thru can be the basis for a successfull lawsuit and yet
> your whole army of followers have failed to launch a single suit.
Not everyone in the world lives in the USA. The first ever mud was
created in the UK, and DIKU was created in Denmark. International
lawsuits are very complicated, expensive and time-consuming.
> > > Noone so far has managed to show in any form that Vryce is making
> > > a profit or that Med is being 'sold'.
> >
> > That would be a bit difficult since Vryce isn't going to give us any
> > hard numbers on his expenses and how much revenue he generates from
> > the "donations".
>
> I think you're just agreeing with me.
Once again this is covered on my website:
An ex-Medievia player (who wishes to remain anonymous) says "The way
the Medievia donation system is setup now, in order to have top-of-the-
line stats and abilities (special abilities ONLY available via donation
items), a player would have to lay out an initial investment of $300-
400 (1 mana talisman, 1 hitpoint talisman, aura, blessing, charm,
chime, container, focus, and shrine @$300, add $100 for an additional
set of talismans - many players buy 2 of each), followed by a $160
yearly fee to keep everything except the talismans from becoming
ineffective. One year of EQ/AC/UO requires an initial cost of $35 or
so, and 11 months of playing time at approximately $10/month (these
games all have the first month free). So, it'll cost me around $145 to
play a commercial, graphical MMORPG the first year, then $120 each
additional year. And I get to make monthly payments. Medievia will cost
$300-400 for the first "year" (whenever I choose to donate), and $160
(or $13.34/mth) for each additional year, if I want to have the best
stats and abilities. In order to make the spammy donation message go
away, I *must* spend at least $50 for a talisman...From personal
experience, I do know people who have donated well over $1000 to the
game during their length of play.
"I've visited his home - a divorced programmer (with no college
degree), paying child support can't afford a new Chrysler Seabrig
convertible (complete with leather seats!), a rather nice townhome in a
suburb (he's moved since this - if I recall, he bought a house),
original artwork on the walls, and a taste for mary jane like he has on
just his work income. That's not to say he absorbs all of the extra
just taking care of his needs, anytime someone hosts a Medievia party
that he attends, he usually shells out a few hundred to help defray the
costs".
Did you know that if only 1% of Medievia's playerbase purchased full
sets of "donation" equipment each year (since 1995, when the donation
eq started) and paid to maintained that equipment from year to year,
Medievia would have made over $800,000?
Vryce may not be giving any proof, but it doesn't take much work to
realise that he's making a LOT of money from Medievia.
> > > The phrasing of the donation agreement
> > > is very careful and while I agree his donation plan is not in the
> > > SPIRIT of the license I sincerely doubt that even the best
> > > lawyers could show that it is in BREACH of that license.
> >
> > Anyone who takes a look at the Medievia's donation system and says
> > that nothing is being sold has got to be kidding themselves. High-
> > powered equiment is being solded on Medievia every day, and for
> > real money.
>
> I suggest you log onto Medievia and read help donations :) I know many
> players who have never spent a penny on Medievia. You make this sound
> like the dramatic ending to a news report from a warzone. So people
> are donating to Medievia every day and receiving high powered
> equipment? I don't think anyone would deny that. The real question is
> why this has any significance whatsoever. If you donate to a charity
> and receive a badge...even a HIGH POWERED badge does that make the
> charity a corporate interest? Wake up :p
If the police force gave you a special badge in return for donations,
and that badge entitled you to ignore speeding and parking fines, do
you think that would be okay?
Of course if muds WANT to sell equipment, that is their own business -
UNLESS it violates the license of the codebase they are using.
Medievia breaks EVERY aspect of the Diku license and has resulted in a
number of mud programmers deciding against releasing their code to the
public.
Butt Ko Witz
>
>Oma, this is just your typical Med-player who tries to defend Medievia
>at all costs. You’ve asked us before to be more kind to them, or at
>least to not flame them. But as you can see, whether we flame them or
>not, they are often so fanatical in their devotion to Medievia that
>they refuse to listen to the fact, if not going so far as to distort
>them.
>
>Farix
Yeah good point, although I'd say it's not a "typical Med-player".
Definitely a typical rgmd posting Med-playing troll/Sock-Monkey
though.
I imagen the typical Med-Player doesn't even say anything on rgmd for
fear of retribution in game, or perhaps lack of concern/ignorance.
Oma
Fredfish
[snipped]
>There is a trend of being unable to separate the
> arguments from the people putting them forward. I suggest you read
> up on it (argumentum ad hominum).
Also frankly you sound like a
> fucking goon to me. I don't know who holds you as a skilled mudder
> but you don't sound like one by my estimation, regardless of years/hours
> epochs or xp difficulties.
Let's see here......
>There is a trend of being unable to separate the
> arguments from the people putting them forward.
Also frankly you sound like a
> fucking goon to me. I don't know who holds you as a skilled mudder
> but you don't sound like one by my estimation, regardless of years/hours
> epochs or xp difficulties.
So then:
1) 'You are using ad hominem, and ignoring the real arguments. You are
trying to invalidate peoples' arguments by discrediting them, and that
is bad.'
2) 'You are a fucking goon, ergo your arguments are invalid and
discredited.'
Ummmmmmmm.... <snigger>
::: Fredfish :::
Aaron Reynolds
oxford...@on.aibn.com wrote:
> So then:
<snipped>
LOL, good job, Fredfish!
Obviously Mister Ed here is a troll, responding in the classic Vryce
mold: if there's a question involving facts or what he's already said,
he ignores it, and responds only to snips involving insults.
Actually, his posts are so Vryce-like that I have to wonder if he's a
precise duplicate, like in that new Arnold Schwarzenneger movie,
except without the gun-toting Feds chasing after him? His radical
shifts in tone, from nearly measured and well-written to insulting
gibberish without capitalization or proper punctuation amuse me
as well. Of course, if he responds to any of my posts now, he'll
respond to this one, conveniently ignoring posts where I ask him
questions.
Right, Ed? If intellectual property means nothing to you, point me
to some of your work so that I can take your name off of it and use
it to generate income for myself.
Clifford