The Future of Muds?
Lori Ann Vrchota
Hi all,
I looking to see if i am alone in this thought, or if there are others
out there who are thinking about the future of muds thae same as i.
If muds follow suit of their single user counterparts of the early
80's (Zork and the like), some time soo n they will be chalked full
of graphics and sounds and bells and whistles like that. Great!
Not. I for one would like to see muds stay in a text based system. Oh,
I've played myst, Dig, and about 49,000 other CD-ROM adventure type
games that look great and all, but something is lost. That's why we
still have books eventhough TV and movies can give us visuals that blow
out our eyeballs and THX implodes our heads. however, did anyone see
the Stand aon ABC awhile back? I got nothing from it, same as the Firm,
Eye of the Needle, and otheres that started as great books, but turned
up as crappy movies. When you start throwing pictures into things, you
tend to lose the autors original idea. And after awhile, quite a many
of the pictures start looking the same (Jurrasic Park and Twister).
It's IMHO that a well written text peice can portray much more emotion,
state of being, and description (even if it is ILM doing the pictures).
I'm rambling now, but thanks for listening.
Lol
Katie Mann
In article <504t61$s...@crcnis3.unl.edu>,
Lori Ann Vrchota <0017...@bigred.unl.edu> wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I looking to see if i am alone in this thought, or if there are others
>out there who are thinking about the future of muds thae same as i.
>If muds follow suit of their single user counterparts of the early
>80's (Zork and the like), some time soo n they will be chalked full
>of graphics and sounds and bells and whistles like that. Great!
Um, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is already happening.
Did you see the Meridian59 press release posted on a lot of these books
two or three days ago? That's visual and supposedly some form of 3d. And
it's not just them, there's a place called "the Palace" that's a lot like
that. I can't speak for the quality of the interface, since I don't have
the platform, but they're there.
>
>Not. I for one would like to see muds stay in a text based system. Oh,
>I've played myst, Dig, and about 49,000 other CD-ROM adventure type
>games that look great and all, but something is lost. That's why we
>still have books eventhough TV and movies can give us visuals that blow
>out our eyeballs and THX implodes our heads.
Yup, sometimes it's thoroughly satisfying to have your mind blown by
visual effects. Though personally I tend to love the THX commercial more
than most of the movies. (Well, until they changed it from the train).
however, did anyone see
>the Stand aon ABC awhile back? I got nothing from it, same as the Firm,
>Eye of the Needle, and otheres that started as great books, but turned
>up as crappy movies. When you start throwing pictures into things, you
>tend to lose the autors original idea.
Yes, it's often hard to make the transition, however if the medium starts
out as artistic, as it would be in a visual world then your argument
doesn't hold in the same ways.
And after awhile, quite a many
>of the pictures start looking the same (Jurrasic Park and Twister).
>It's IMHO that a well written text peice can portray much more emotion,
>state of being, and description (even if it is ILM doing the pictures).
It probably depends on the quality of the interface, and also maybe even
more importantly the skill of those interfacing. There are a lot of
people out there who couldn't make a pose to save their lives, and that's
where a lot of the detail of interaction comes, not in Frodo says, Jack
says, Frodo says, Jack says.
>I'm rambling now, but thanks for listening.
You may not beleive it now, but I do agree with your main point, that
you'd like to see the text based worlds continue to exist. I thought I
was uninterested in the visual, but as the technology picks up I find
myself curious to check them out, and look around. However; I still want
to continue playing on my text based worlds. Maybe there will come a time
when I play on one or the other depending on my mood, but really I am much
more inclined to the written world than visual expression.
>
>Lol
>
Katie
Michael Sellers
Here we go again...
Lori Ann Vrchota (0017...@bigred.unl.edu) wrote:
: I looking to see if i am alone in this thought, or if there are others
: out there who are thinking about the future of muds thae same as i.
: If muds follow suit of their single user counterparts of the early
: 80's (Zork and the like), some time soo n they will be chalked full
: of graphics and sounds and bells and whistles like that. Great!
Not soon -- now. We've had over 25,000 players test our graphical mud,
and we'll be releasing it commercially in October. The reaction from both
long-time text mudders and non-mudders has been enthusiastic. The average
player plays about 2 hrs per day, 3-4 days per week. Many (many!) play
more.
: Not. I for one would like to see muds stay in a text based system. Oh,
: I've played myst, Dig, and about 49,000 other CD-ROM adventure type
: games that look great and all, but something is lost.
Having been in on the creationa nd administration of this graphical (3D
first-person) MUD, I can tell you that the analogy between books vs TV
and text vs graphical muds is completely flawed. You'll have to play to
see, but briefly -- TV is much more passive than reading a book; graphical
muds are *more* interactive than text muds; TV has to trim things out from
the text version; graphical muds add things that the text does not show
you. The analogy is simply flawed; I'm not sure of what a good one is...
perhaps radio and TV, though even that has its flaws.
I'm not out to convince everyone, and I'm not going to engage in a huge
religious war over this, but -- as in previous discussions on this point,
nearly everyone who decries graphical muds has never tried one, and
certainly never tried ours.
--
Michael Sellers The 3DO Company mike.s...@3do.com
Brandon Joseph Rickman
>80's (Zork and the like), some time soo n they will be chalked full
>of graphics and sounds and bells and whistles like that. Great!
I think there is little fear that text based muds will disappear within the
next 5-10 years. There are already several graphically enhanced internet
games but for the most part they are still in heavy development and
are typically not as freely accessible (in speed and cost) as the
traditional early 90's MUD. Even if text muds die out their graphics-rich
cousins will inherit the same problems of interface, complexity, and
intelligence that currently separate the quality MUDs from the banal
hack-n-slash throwbacks that are popular today.
>I've played myst, Dig, and about 49,000 other CD-ROM adventure type
>games that look great and all, but something is lost. That's why we
>still have books eventhough TV and movies can give us visuals that blow
>out our eyeballs and THX implodes our heads.
There are a lot of apples and oranges here. Books are to movie adaptions
as Zork is to Myst? Visual media have several benefits especially when
dealing with language barriers. Many of the common complaints about movies
and television being inadequate media for adapting text are a result of
internally and externally imposed restrictions such as length,
production costs, content versus target audience.
More books are published than movies produced, and if 99%
of everything is crap then while you proportionately end up with the same
amount of good books and good movies there will always be more good books.
So it is easier to find a satisfactory novel, or a good MUD, but
that doesn't mean good movies or great graphical games
don't or can't exist, they just aren't as common. Myst, despite its truly
primitive interface and baby-level puzzles, is still better than 99% of
the games that came out in '94.
>however, did anyone see
>the Stand aon ABC awhile back?
If _The Stand_ had been scene for scene true to the novel would that have
made it better? It (fortunately) almost never takes as long to watch
a movie as to read the book and you have to be willing to give
up some stylistic elements (character introspection,
florid descriptions, verb tenses) when you
interpret the text visually. I'd rather not have to read _or_ watch
_The Stand_ or _The Firm_ - if I had the choice I would rather watch the
movie and read something more interesting on the bus. But there is
something appealing about movies - and graphic games - that has
created a legitimate demand. Don't condemn movie adaptions and interactive
web games because they are new and threaten the status quo (they don't).
Condemn them because they suck on their own merits, or because they don't
take big enough risks.
>It's IMHO that a well written text peice can portray much more emotion,
>state of being, and description (even if it is ILM doing the pictures).
I thought a picture was worth a thousand words. If you want subjective
beauty use words. If you want clear representation draw a picture.
- Brandon Rickman as...@zennet.com
Visit the Plastic Mud Index - http://www.zennet.com/pub/plastic/mud
Matt Chatterley
It has to be said, that there are a lot of advantages to a textual
interface rather than a graphical one - largely but not soley based around
the restrictions imposed by todays technology (with it's rate of
advancement, these are not major concerns.. our "slow" modems today may
soon be replaced by something much better yet equally affordable) - today,
bandwidth, demand on resources, and cost (the amount of time put into a
graphical MUD moves it away from the "hobby" type building of most free
MUDs, and into the commercial sector). It's not soley time and effort of
construction, but skill as well - I for one can write a good room
description, and knock up a small area in a MUD or create a town on a MUSH
within a couple of hours, but if I were required to draw images, I'd be
screwed - I can't draw for toffee, in any medium.
On the playing side, a text interface would also be my choice, I want a
feeling of environment, the "living book" effect, if you will, rather than
pretty pictures - it's easy for me (poor eyesight) to miss important
details in an image, but with text, it's easier to pick up hidden hints
and clues.
Also, now from a roleplaying point of view, it's perhaps easier to convey
yourself writing as if you were in a story, than my controlling a figure -
you get a lot more limited in movements, until such a time as some form of
easily controllable simulated figure becomes possible - perhaps via some
form of "VR" setup.
Regards,
-Matt Chatterley
http://user.itl.net/~neddy/index.html
"May you live in.. Interesting Times."
Sebastian Andersson
In <504t61$s...@crcnis3.unl.edu> 0017...@bigred.unl.edu (Lori Ann Vrchota) writes:
[Notice reply-to set to r.g.m.mics]
>Hi all,
>I looking to see if i am alone in this thought, or if there are others
>out there who are thinking about the future of muds thae same as i.
>If muds follow suit of their single user counterparts of the early
>80's (Zork and the like), some time soo n they will be chalked full
>of graphics and sounds and bells and whistles like that. Great!
>Not!
[snip]
This has been argued over more times than I care to remember.
The results usualy are:
. Yes, muas (or whatever you want to call them) of the future will use
graphics.
. If some muas use graphics, there is nothing stopping other muas from
using text.
. Those people that enjoy text muas will play those and those that don't
will play graphical muas.
. There are already many MUAs that use graphics. Take a look at
http://www.communities.com/habitat.html to get a few links to some of
them.
/Sebastian
--
---> Play DUMII! (http://www.ts.umu.se/~dum/) <---
Money wants to be free! Give them to me and I'll liberate them!
OB DISCLAIMER: Pepsi, the Devil, made me do it.
Paul McInnes
Lori Ann Vrchota wrote:
>
> [a bit snipped] I for one would like to see muds stay in a text based system. Oh,
> I've played myst, Dig, and about 49,000 other CD-ROM adventure type
> games that look great and all, but something is lost. That's why we
> still have books eventhough TV and movies can give us visuals that blow
> the Stand aon ABC awhile back? I got nothing from it, same as the Firm,
> Eye of the Needle, and otheres that started as great books, but turned
> up as crappy movies. When you start throwing pictures into things, you
> of the pictures start looking the same (Jurrasic Park and Twister).
> state of being, and description (even if it is ILM doing the pictures).
>
I am forced to agree. While I think there is a legit role for the
graphical representation of some data (e.g. a simple overhead map for
outdoors movement, a few small images to display the current weather,
and perhaps a "bar" to show current health, stamina etc), text encourages
the player to use their imagination.
However, it is also worth noting that the richness that books can provide
does not just stem from the fact that they are texts, but from the power
of a narrative to engage the reader at all sorts of interesting levels. A
good movie or even video game has the potential to do likewise provided
it offers something more than the tired "kill for xp and gold" stories
that MUDs do so easily and well.
I like text-MUDs, and I would be sad to see them wiped out by more
glamorous graphical MUDs, but in the end I think the MUDs that will offer
the most will be those that provide players an opportunity to become
involved, via their characters, in truly engaging stories.
Paul.