(40K) Iron Warriors 2000 point army for review (Was: Chaos Undivided army idea (rough) )
Koji
Comments, suggestions and snide comments all appreciated.
Do make any flames creative, please. =)
It's ironic that I had started painting my CSM's in Iron Warrior's
colors prior to the WD article, and had a strong infantry and heavy
support base to begin with. Of course, once you look closely, you'll
see your old friend, the SCAFH, I'm sure. =)
The nice thing is, this army is cheap, consisting for the most part of
plastic CSMs. Only the heavy and special weapons, and the Chaos
Sorceror model representing my Warsmith are metal (the weapons, not
the marine). That and Vindicator...
An army list for Warhammer 40,000 using Codex:Chaos Space marines and
WD 255 (US)
Belgar's Besiegers, an Iron Warriors warband.
HQ: 389 points
Belgar Forgebreaker, Sorceror Warsmith of Chaos: Bolt Pistol, power
weapon, frag grenades, & melta bombs;
Mark of chaos undivided, Psychic Power: Doom Bolt, Sorceror's Scrolls
107 Points
Belgar's Bodyguards
7 Veteran Chaos Space Marines, with bolt pistols and close combat
weapons (132)
1 Veteran CSM with plasma gun (24)
Led by Aspiring Champion Moridan, with power fist, bolt pistol, Mark
of chaos undivided (58)
All have frag grenades (+10)
Chaos Rhino with extra armor, smoke launchers (58)
Elites: 294 Points
Karanon's Veterans
Veteran Chaos Space Marine Squad
7 VCSMs with bolt pistols, ccw and frag grenades (133)
1 VCSM with plasma gun, frag grenades (25)
1 VCSM with heavy bolter, frag grenades (29)
Led by Aspiring Champion Karanon, Mark of Chaos Undivided, power
weapon, bolt pistol, frag (49)
Chaos Rhino with extra armor, smoke launchers (58)
(I know what you're thinking, why a heavy bolter? I have the bitz to
make one, that's why. =P Also gives 'em something to do if there's no
one in charge range. )
Troops: 673 Points
Veteran Squad Bauxite (160)
2 Veteran Chaos Space Marines with bolters (36)
2 Veteran Chaos Space Marines with missle launchers. (76)
Led by Aspiring Champion Sardarus, mark of chaos undivided, Bolt
Pistol, power Weapon (48)
(Infiltrate these bad boys in for a side armor shot at the opponent's
best vehicle - as long as it's not a Land Raider)
Squad Ferrous: 171 Points
8 Chaos Space Marines with bolters, including Champion (120)
1 Chaos Space Marine with lascannon (30)
1 Chaos Space marine with plasma gun (21)
Squad Gelt: 171 Points
8 Chaos Space Marines with bolters, including Champion (120)
1 Chaos Space Marine with lascannon (30)
1 Chaos Space marine with plasma gun (21)
Squad Igneus: 171 Points
8 Chaos Space Marines with bolters, including Champion (120)
1 Chaos Space Marine with lascannon (30)
1 Chaos Space marine with plasma gun (21)
Heavy Support: 503
Chaos Predator , "Purgatory", w/twinlinked lascannon turret, lascannon
sponsons, extra armor, smoke (158)
Havoc Squad Hammer
5 CSM Havocs, with 3 missile launchers or autocannons (135)
(I haven't bought these yet, so they could be either, or a mix)
Corrupted vehicle
Chaos Vindicator "Death", extra armor, smoke launchers, (128)
Havoc Squad Temper
5 CSM Havocs, with 3 lascannons (210)
Toatal of the above: 1997 points
Tactics:
This CSM Army uses the Iron Warrior's prediliction for shooting it our
with their foes and their awesome ability to field more than 3 heavy
support choices. It's lack of fast units is offset by it's staggering
firepower, especially in 2,000 point games. Thus, their tactics are
simple: Pour heavy weapon and bolter fire into the enemy for as long
as possible, then use the Sorceror Lord and his Retinue, backed up by
the Rhino-mounted Vets to mop up. This army features:
9 lascannons, one of which is twin-linked
5 Missile launchers or autocannons
1 Heavy Bolter
5 plasma guns
2 storm bolters
31 Bolters
18 Bolt pistols
14 close combat weapons
3 power weapons
1 power fist
Thus the killing ground starts at 48 inches, and just gets nastier as
the enemy closes. Given that most missions set up about 24" apart,
practically every unit in my army will have something in range even if
I get first turn, and even the Veterans and Retinue that are lurking
about can issue supporting fire. By the time the enemy hits my lines,
they should be severly depleted of troops and transports. Meanwhile,
the enemy has to kill lots of Marines, because even if the Rhinos are
destroyed, the Veterans inside can still set tight and fire their
plama guns (and that heavy bolter) until it's time to charge - at
which time they both move forward, fire their pistols at a different
nearby unit, then hit the unit they want to charge. Good clean fun.
=)
Note that although the Iron Warriors have surrendered 2 Fast Attack
choices to get an additional Heavy Support choice, this army fields no
Fast Attck units at all, concentrating on Heavy Support and Troops.
Thus, this is hardly a burden to me as I can only field either a
single squad of raptors or a single bike squad - and I don't have the
points (or the money) left for either.
First off, the Vindicator is a target - a big one. That cannon can
massacre entire squads, and the enemy knows it. Thus, I expect it
never to live long enough to fire it. It's sad purpose in life is to
draw fire from my other units. If it kills something, that's a bonus.
Vet squad Bauxite will be Infiltrated somewhere inconvenient (for the
enemy), and target the side armor of enemy vehicles with their missle
launchers, then turn their attentions on any infantry heading for
their position. Ideally, they'll be set up in cover, making them
*stubborn* and a real nuisance to the enemy. The Aspiring Champion is
in there to help this, as the squad will have to be assaulted to
silence them, and ideally they can be supported in turn by the CSM
squads or the Havoc squads.
Commisair Koji
Atrian VII Armored Division
"Men and guns are fine, but give me more tanks!"
Lord Commandar Solar Macharius
Aristeia
wrote:
>Alright, here it is. Feel free to rip it up and murdalize it.
>Comments, suggestions and snide comments all appreciated.
>Do make any flames creative, please. =)
>It's ironic that I had started painting my CSM's in Iron Warrior's
>colors prior to the WD article, and had a strong infantry and heavy
>support base to begin with.
Cool. I like their list and have been playing around with it. Some
of the things I've been thinking of are kind of hare-brained, though.
:) Probably not going to start an actual IW army soon (my current
Chaos army's Night Lords), but they do tend to play similarly so I
couldn't resist the mental exercise.
>Of course, once you look closely, you'll
>see your old friend, the SCAFH, I'm sure. =)
It's nowhere near as min-maxed. :)
>The nice thing is, this army is cheap, consisting for the most part of
>plastic CSMs. Only the heavy and special weapons, and the Chaos
>Sorceror model representing my Warsmith are metal (the weapons, not
>the marine). That and Vindicator...
>
>An army list for Warhammer 40,000 using Codex:Chaos Space marines and
>WD 255 (US)
>
>Belgar's Besiegers, an Iron Warriors warband.
>
>HQ: 389 points
>Belgar Forgebreaker, Sorceror Warsmith of Chaos: Bolt Pistol, power
>weapon, frag grenades, & melta bombs;
>Mark of chaos undivided, Psychic Power: Doom Bolt, Sorceror's Scrolls
>107 Points
Cost looks off--if he's the two wound version he should be 102 and if
he's the 3 wound version he should be 117. My best guess: you missed
that you need to pay 10 points to upgrade a Chaos Lord to a Chaos
Sorceror Lord.
For 20 points Doom Bolt isn't bad; for 30 (effectively) it's a little
pricy. It can be nice to have but I'd rather use the points to give
my lord twin lightning claws and spiky bits (not that they're
mutually exclusive--in fact they combine very nicely--but the overall
cost then gets really high).
If you stick with it you can probably safely drop the scrolls. They
don't come into play that often, especially with Ld 10. Even on a
roll of double 1s or 6s you take a wound slightly less than half the
time. Overall I think I'd be more tempted to take the cheap 5 point
bionics the IWs can get, just for fun.
>Belgar's Bodyguards
>7 Veteran Chaos Space Marines, with bolt pistols and close combat
>weapons (132)
>1 Veteran CSM with plasma gun (24)
>Led by Aspiring Champion Moridan, with power fist, bolt pistol, Mark
>of chaos undivided (58)
>All have frag grenades (+10)
>Chaos Rhino with extra armor, smoke launchers (58)
I'd suggest taking a second special weapon for the retinue. I'd
probably opt for flamers or meltas too, but it depends on how you want
to use them. My lord usually ends up moving around a lot, so there'd
be no advantage to me in using plasma.
>Elites: 294 Points
>Karanon's Veterans
>Veteran Chaos Space Marine Squad
>7 VCSMs with bolt pistols, ccw and frag grenades (133)
>1 VCSM with plasma gun, frag grenades (25)
>1 VCSM with heavy bolter, frag grenades (29)
>Led by Aspiring Champion Karanon, Mark of Chaos Undivided, power
>weapon, bolt pistol, frag (49)
>Chaos Rhino with extra armor, smoke launchers (58)
>(I know what you're thinking, why a heavy bolter? I have the bitz to
>make one, that's why. =P Also gives 'em something to do if there's no
>one in charge range. )
That's fine, but in that case you'd save a lot of points (35) by just
making them regular CSMs. They'd be identical in every way since
these guys can't infiltrate with their Rhino, and normal CSMs can also
be freely equipped with bp/ccw. You could use those points to give
your aspiring champs goodies like meltabombs and spiky bits (which are
both really worthwhile).
>Troops: 673 Points
>Veteran Squad Bauxite (160)
>2 Veteran Chaos Space Marines with bolters (36)
>2 Veteran Chaos Space Marines with missle launchers. (76)
>Led by Aspiring Champion Sardarus, mark of chaos undivided, Bolt
>Pistol, power Weapon (48)
>(Infiltrate these bad boys in for a side armor shot at the opponent's
>best vehicle - as long as it's not a Land Raider)
Wouldn't recommend the AC here--it's a small squad and the enemy will
probably have LOS to them. Even with decent cover they'll be a prime
target for enemy fire. Better to just have three ablative marines
with the two MLs..
>Squad Ferrous: 171 Points
>8 Chaos Space Marines with bolters, including Champion (120)
>1 Chaos Space Marine with lascannon (30)
>1 Chaos Space marine with plasma gun (21)
>
>Squad Gelt: 171 Points
>8 Chaos Space Marines with bolters, including Champion (120)
>1 Chaos Space Marine with lascannon (30)
>1 Chaos Space marine with plasma gun (21)
>
>Squad Igneus: 171 Points
>8 Chaos Space Marines with bolters, including Champion (120)
>1 Chaos Space Marine with lascannon (30)
>1 Chaos Space marine with plasma gun (21)
Lots of big meaty squads--not a bad way to go.
>Heavy Support: 503
>Chaos Predator , "Purgatory", w/twinlinked lascannon turret, lascannon
>sponsons, extra armor, smoke (158)
Good.
>Havoc Squad Hammer
>5 CSM Havocs, with 3 missile launchers or autocannons (135)
>(I haven't bought these yet, so they could be either, or a mix)
Both are good--out of habit I like to use 3 MLs or 1 ML and 2 ACs.
>Corrupted vehicle
>Chaos Vindicator "Death", extra armor, smoke launchers, (128)
>
>Havoc Squad Temper
>5 CSM Havocs, with 3 lascannons (210)
Should only come to 180 points. More MLs or ACs would be more point
efficient and not all that less effective, but it's your call. You've
got a decent number of marines on the board to screen them with, so
they should do okay.
>First off, the Vindicator is a target - a big one. That cannon can
>massacre entire squads, and the enemy knows it. Thus, I expect it
>never to live long enough to fire it.
They tend not to, though a canny opponent will usually be satisfied
with a shaken result in any given round and switch to shooting at
something else. Daemonic Possession's kinda tempting for that reason,
but it's awfully expensive.
>It's sad purpose in life is to
>draw fire from my other units. If it kills something, that's a bonus.
>Vet squad Bauxite will be Infiltrated somewhere inconvenient (for the
>enemy), and target the side armor of enemy vehicles with their missle
>launchers, then turn their attentions on any infantry heading for
>their position. Ideally, they'll be set up in cover, making them
>*stubborn* and a real nuisance to the enemy.
Simple cover's not sufficient, if I remember right.
Overall it looks pretty solid. Just check your total point cost again
and tweak a couple of things (like changing the one squad of vets to
regular CSMs). Looks like you'll actually end up with a bunch of
points to play with.
Aristeia
Josiah
> An army list for Warhammer 40,000 using Codex:Chaos Space marines and
> WD 255 (US)
>
> Belgar's Besiegers, an Iron Warriors warband.
>
> HQ: 389 points
> Belgar Forgebreaker, Sorceror Warsmith of Chaos: Bolt Pistol, power
> weapon, frag grenades, & melta bombs;
> Mark of chaos undivided, Psychic Power: Doom Bolt, Sorceror's Scrolls
Yawn another overpowered over priced hq. Ok it'll get its points if it
kills another overpirced overpowered hq , but otherwise forget it.
> 107 Points
> Belgar's Bodyguards
> 7 Veteran Chaos Space Marines, with bolt pistols and close combat
> weapons (132)
> 1 Veteran CSM with plasma gun (24)
> Led by Aspiring Champion Moridan, with power fist, bolt pistol, Mark
> of chaos undivided (58)
> All have frag grenades (+10)
> Chaos Rhino with extra armor, smoke launchers (58)
Good for adding some cheep killing power to your hq , this'll enable it to
have an impact on things other then enemy hqs
> Elites: 294 Points
> Karanon's Veterans
> Veteran Chaos Space Marine Squad
> 7 VCSMs with bolt pistols, ccw and frag grenades (133)
> 1 VCSM with plasma gun, frag grenades (25)
> 1 VCSM with heavy bolter, frag grenades (29)
> Led by Aspiring Champion Karanon, Mark of Chaos Undivided, power
> weapon, bolt pistol, frag (49)
> Chaos Rhino with extra armor, smoke launchers (58)
> (I know what you're thinking, why a heavy bolter? I have the bitz to
> make one, that's why. =P Also gives 'em something to do if there's no
> one in charge range. )
Hmmm. More nice mashy mashy squad for killing my cheep guard. Still to
expensive tho. It'd worry me if it had some meltas so after ripping apart
some ig it could burn a hole in the back of my tanks. And I would find it
hard to stop these 2 units in rhinos before they hit my lines , but I'm not
sure if they could kill enough of my guys to justify their price.
> Troops: 673 Points
> Veteran Squad Bauxite (160)
> 2 Veteran Chaos Space Marines with bolters (36)
> 2 Veteran Chaos Space Marines with missle launchers. (76)
> Led by Aspiring Champion Sardarus, mark of chaos undivided, Bolt
> Pistol, power Weapon (48)
> (Infiltrate these bad boys in for a side armor shot at the opponent's
> best vehicle - as long as it's not a Land Raider)
Hmmm. Could chew up guard. Missile luanchers just bounce off proper tank
armour tho. One time I was fighting another guard. He had a 3 missile heavy
weapon squad. Every turn for 6 turns they blased away into the frontal
armour of a russ. Didn't do a single thing.
> Squad Ferrous: 171 Points
> 8 Chaos Space Marines with bolters, including Champion (120)
> 1 Chaos Space Marine with lascannon (30)
> 1 Chaos Space marine with plasma gun (21)
As above , except their lascannon would be a pain. But on the other hand
you'd lose all the boltguns if you shoot at one of my tanks.
> Squad Gelt: 171 Points
> 8 Chaos Space Marines with bolters, including Champion (120)
> 1 Chaos Space Marine with lascannon (30)
> 1 Chaos Space marine with plasma gun (21)
As above
> Squad Igneus: 171 Points
> 8 Chaos Space Marines with bolters, including Champion (120)
> 1 Chaos Space Marine with lascannon (30)
> 1 Chaos Space marine with plasma gun (21)
As above. Make sure you deploy em dispersed , or else the enemy
battlecannons will have a field day with that many marines out there :)
> Heavy Support: 503
> Chaos Predator , "Purgatory", w/twinlinked lascannon turret, lascannon
> sponsons, extra armor, smoke (158)
I'd put bets on a russ :)
However that would be the next best thing
> Havoc Squad Hammer
> 5 CSM Havocs, with 3 missile launchers or autocannons (135)
> (I haven't bought these yet, so they could be either, or a mix)
Autocannons are only good against light vehicles. I recommend lascannons ,
their as good as autos against sp 12 armour , and better then em and missile
luanchers at anything tougher. On the other hand you already do have 6
lascannons...
I'd put your lascannons with these guys, and give a anti infantry weapon
to your gumbies ( basic troopers ). Make sure to screen this squad with
something else in that case , so you'll have 2 units of 3 lascannons to get
flanking fire at the enemy
Mind you lascannons also make decent marine killers :D
> Corrupted vehicle
> Chaos Vindicator "Death", extra armor, smoke launchers, (128)
Gaaah
Only 128 points? Fark thats better then a demolisher by a long shot. Why
don't marines take these little buggers?
> Havoc Squad Temper
> 5 CSM Havocs, with 3 lascannons (210)
Well, you do have another squad of 3 lascannons already :) You might
ignore what I said above. But don't rely on lascannons , they still suck
against sp 14. Get some meltas on something fast ( rhino mounted infantary ,
or bikers or something ) to deal with the enemy tuff tanks
> Toatal of the above: 1997 points
> Tactics:
> This CSM Army uses the Iron Warrior's prediliction for shooting it our
> with their foes and their awesome ability to field more than 3 heavy
> support choices. It's lack of fast units is offset by it's staggering
> firepower, especially in 2,000 point games. Thus, their tactics are
> simple: Pour heavy weapon and bolter fire into the enemy for as long
> as possible, then use the Sorceror Lord and his Retinue, backed up by
> the Rhino-mounted Vets to mop up. This army features:
> 9 lascannons, one of which is twin-linked
> 5 Missile launchers or autocannons
> 1 Heavy Bolter
> 5 plasma guns
> 2 storm bolters
> 31 Bolters
> 18 Bolt pistols
> 14 close combat weapons
> 3 power weapons
> 1 power fist
Pray you don't fight guard ( no one ever out shoots the guard ;) ). Anyone
else this army should kick arse.
But against guard if you use your retinue they could turn the tide against
guard. Especially if they have AT crap.
Koji
wrote:
> Pray you don't fight guard ( no one ever out shoots the guard ;) ). Anyone
>else this army should kick arse.
> But against guard if you use your retinue they could turn the tide against
>guard. Especially if they have AT crap.
Actually, I HAVE thouoght about IG and here's the idea. The retinue
AC and the Vet AC, as well as the Sorceror lord have meltabombs, plus
there's at least one power fist in that lot. The smaller vet squad is
set up to shoot ML's at the Russ's SIDE armor of I believe 12,
although that's still iffy. Although a Basilisk may make for a more
tempting target, if present. Infiltration only works so often,
though. I'd also try to get all those other Marines into hard cover,
or con the IG player into attacking in Bunker Assault/Strongpoint
attack. =)
In fact at least one person has put forth the opinion that my math may
be in error, and if it is, |'ll be more than happy to add to this
army's antiarmor abilities by converting a couple of the plastic csm's
i have with metal meltagun bits I have lying around.
Lastly, there are a few reasons Marines don't often use Vindicators.
First off, other than the demolisher cannon, it's secondary armanent
(a storm bolter) stinks. If it's in range for that, lob a bloody
demolisher shell over there instead. Secondly, no sponsons to mount
longer range weapons like lascannons, plasma cannons or heavy bolters.
Now, a VDR version has potential, I think, but would be extrmely
expensive. Third, timing. The Vindicator requires a sweet setup
where the enemy is within 24 while it's able to shoot. You may have
to maneuver to arrange that, and on those turns all you have is a
storm bolter. The last reason is, as i have stated, their durability.
Based on a Rhino chassis, their armor is no better than a Predator's.
with a little luck you could scatter a battle cannon any direction but
towards it's front and its s8 vs ar 11 or 10, roll two dice for
penetrate.
So with these drawbacks, why use it? Because I have seen entire
armies take a wide approach around one of these things. i have faced
off with my Chaos Predator vs one of these things, holding up an
entire half of the table; the Dark Angles player unwilling to chance
my lascannons, and me unwilling to gamble with a move and shoot
lascannon shot vs it's front armor. I was having mediocre rolls that
day anyways =)
FisherSmoke
FisherSmoke
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