Greedy Games Workshop...Aren't they satisfied yet?
AtogGuy
enjoy one (or more) of GW's games. However, I have been getting very tired
of GW trying to squeeze every penny out of gamers who are good enough to
support their products.
First, it started with the new Warhammer 40k. It is supposedly a
'complete' game, but we all know that it sucks without Dark Millenium. And
what do you get in Dark Millenium? Mostly cardstock that SHOULD have been
in the basic set. Basically, GW suckers you into buying 40k boxed, and
then forces you to pay more dinero to get Dark Millenium.
Second is White Dwarf. Let's face it, White Dwarf is simply GWs
mouthpiece, which they basically force you to buy in order to obtain
essential data on squads and characters. Commisar Yarrick, Talisman
characters, and the new IG squads all have their data printed EXCLUSIVELY
in White Dwarf. In White Dwarf #185, Jervis Johnson explains why Talisman
characters supposedly packaged in Dragon's Tower have their statistics
printed in WD: "Unfortunately, we couldn't fit all of the new characters
we had written in Dragon's Tower" (36) which is of course, a lie. Dragon's
Tower is a large boxed set that could certainly have more stuff in it.
Shouldn't essential game material be packaged with the product? Even TSR
doesn't "force" you to buy Dragon, they just put a lot of good ideas into
it and let the magazine stand on it's own merits. Apperently, GW doesn't
have enough faith in their writers (or themselves) to allow WD to go to
press with out either reprinted Codex material or essential documentation
that should have been included in the packaging.
Last, the Codexes. These are probably the biggest blight on the GW line.
It's totally ridiculous that GW charges $19.95 for a book as thin as the
$11.99 "Street Samurai Catalogue" from FASA (glossy cover included). To
make matters worse, the Codexes so far consist of over %50 reprinted
material or 'Eavy Metal pictures. This is an atrocious slap in the face to
gamers, and basically shows that GW wants your money and don't mind
"repackaging" material to get it.
Why do we continue putting up with this? WE control GW, not the other way
around. If we, as the gaming public, decide we simply don't want Citadel
miniatures, paints, or brushes, there will be no more Citadel. If we
decide we don't want anymore 40K, or Fantasy, or Quest, or Talisman, there
will be no GW. Help stop this. Write to tyr...@aol.com and tell him how
you feel, or write GW through snail mail. Make a difference!
Ato...@aol.com
David Moore
Richard S. Fineman
I agree 100% with everything you said except your conclusion.
Games Workshop isn't nearly as big in America as in England and probably
wouldn't suffer too much if they stopped selling in America. So, if you
stop buying they may shut down for good and keep on in England! I think
we should all start writing them to both lower prices AND make a 40k movie!
Jared L Hilal
: I just feel the need to write this post. If you are like me, you probably
: Ato...@aol.com
: David Moore
Damn right!!!!
buy your figs from alternate suppliers and 1/35th scale tanks and convert
both yourself.
Jay Hilal
"Understanding is a three edged sword"
-Kosh Naranek
Eric L. Sarlin
products have always been expensive, they have really gone up in price
dramatically since GW pulled lead figs in favor of peuter ones, and the
new boxed sets of WHFB and 40K came out.
Some reminders of those forgotten days of retail fairness:
I remember the days when for 25 bucks you could buy the Skeleton Army
boxed set in which you received:
30 skeleton infantry
10 skeleton horsemen
1 undead chariot.
To buy the same number of figs now you have to buy 5 boxed sets that will
run you in the neighborhood of 60 bucks. Aside from this completely
unjustifiable mark up, GW puts that much more packaging into the
environment. Bad news all around. When I brought this up to my friendly
neighborhood GW retailer, he gave me some b.s. line about being able to
buy a complete Undead force for $200.OO in some special deal. Who cares
about special deals like this if you only want more (reasonably priced)
skeletons to round out your forces? GW needs to price fairly all the
time, for all its customers--especially those savvy enough to see through
a loss leader.
Similarly, Blood Bowl teams used to come with 16 figs in a small hard
plastic blister pack for (if I'm remembering correctly) 25 bucks. BB
teams now come 12 to a pack with a styrofoam tray and run 30+ bucks. Scam
scam scam.
Unfortunately, I love the games too much to boycott GW. On the other
hand, I'm glad I bought most of my figs before the new packaging went into
effect.
To any GW types who read this post (I'm forwarding this to Tyranid@aol):
Lower your prices. Package products like you used to (both in terms of
number of figs for fair price AND in terms of limiting use of styrofoam
and other packaging). If you don't do this, you will price yourself out
of the market. You do have competition!!!!
els
David M Keller
against my posts or the posts of quite a few of the other folks on this
group just shows the fact that GW does, in fact, not give a fuck about
what we have to say. The only thing that could possibly get thier
attention is if thier product stops selling.
I agree 100% in buying other brands of models and especially paints and
brushes. GW paints are no better than any other brand and cost twice a
much. The painting guides would be useless if poeple invented thier own
paint schemes. All these books are is essentially masturbation for the
'eavy metal crew (look how fuckin' cool WE are, huh?).
Since this news group has started up my already low opinion of GW has
dropped even more due to the simple fact that they don't care enough to
even try and defend their bullshit marketing tacktics. But I think it's
time to stop attacking them, we all know they suck and they obviously
don't care. It would be naive to think that the members of this group
could put a dent in thier profits, but I also think its our duty to try.
So please in the future don't buy thier paints, brushes, or painting
guides. Other companies make paints and brushes better and cheaper.
If this gets our message across, great, if not, at least we tried.
If you agree with this drop me a line, I'd like to have some idea what
kind of support I have. Maybe some kind of petition or mail drive would
help convice them as well.
zippy
David M Keller
Unfortunately this one line will inevitably undermine any sort of attempt
to get GW to lower its prices. Until they see a drop in profits thier
prices will _never_ go down. You do have a point with the packaging,
though. That could very well be made into a major enough point if some
orginized environmental pressure was applied.
zippy
James Wallis
> I think the fact that nobody from GW has even tried to defend itself
> against my posts or the posts of quite a few of the other folks on this
> group just shows the fact that GW does, in fact, not give a fuck about
> what we have to say.
What evidence do we have that anybody from GW actually reads this
newsgroup? Anybody with any kind of position of power, that is?
GW is not a huge megalithic corporation, and it's certainly not
psychic. Wouldn't it make sense to make sure that the object of
your vitriol is receiving your messages before complaining that
you're not getting any replies?
--
James Wallis
Director of Hogshead Publishing <> Any statements and sentiments in
(ja...@hogshead.demon.co.uk) <> <> this post should not be taken as
Writing in a personal capacity <> opinions of Hogshead Publishing.
JGerman278
If this gets our message across,
My ass they do. Partha paints are chalky, and Polly S just plain suck.
Armory paints separate....
>GW has
dropped even more due to the simple fact that they don't care enough to
even try and defend their bullshit marketing tacktics.
Number one, Tim hasn't even been on the net, all of GW staff has been
working to get things ready for Games Day. Number two, with the way you
act I'm not suprised no one wants to argue. I've talked to Dave Frank
about it, rationally. And I got a positive response. We talked about it. I
did not yell and whine about GW's practices. Paint schemes have little if
anything to do with the painting guides. The painting guides are there to
teach technique and to show examples. And I can tell you right now, GW
wouldn't give a damn if you did boycott. They sell so much, losing 10% of
their customer base probably couldn't and wouldn't hurt them. The whole
point is you can whine you can complain. But as far as private business is
concerned you have no rights. They don't have to listen to you. The only
rule they really have to follow is supply and demand.
Lyle Closs
guardian packes, when the standrd is5, and they used to have 5. Bastards
that is so rough.
Pete
MalkContent - Malkavian lord
: Ato...@aol.com
Question for you AtogGuy [prepare for flame] :
If it was YOUR company would you want profit?
Especially if you had the near monopoly GW has in the UK?
[probably not, after all you *ARE* named after a Magic:the Addiction card!]
Be a bit realistic: yes, GW is really tight. Yes GW does have some serious cash cow problems.
However, take a look at Heartbreaker miniatures for example.
Kev 'goblinmaster' Adams
Tim Prow
their models are at least par to GW's current models, and far less expensive. Also, these models are on the same bases, and fairly indistinguishable from GW's. GW's prices will go down, and soon, else competition here in the US will wipe them out. Besides, this entire group rec.games.blah.blah.blah... is proof that even those financially outraged will enjoy and play these games...
Sorry, but ya burned yourself. No hard feelings (just empty wallet)
: David Moore
Jared L Hilal
: I agree. And guess what. Now they put 4 troops in the aspect warrior nd
: that is so rough.
: Pete
Four???? Where the hell do you live? I haven't seen four since lead
died. All the pewter blisters that I see are 2 figs.
Eric L. Sarlin
offers superior products (rules, figs, paints). [Though I do think the
best brushes are to be found in art shops.]
Nonetheless, I think GW marketing strategies have been a total scam over
the last few years. [Again, I'm glad to say that I purchased my 8 armies
before the bulk of the marketing changes had occured.] I point out my post
on another thread in which I reminded everyone that one could purchase the
Skeleton Army Boxed Set a few years ago--which included 30 skeleton
infantry, 10 skeleton horsemen, and 1 undead chariot--for $25 dollars.
Now, to buy the same amount of stuff, one has to buy 5 different boxed
sets at a charge of at least $60 total. Not only is this a financial rip
off, but it adds that much more packaging waste to an already taxed
environment.
I would support a petition against GW for both marketing tactics AND
environmentally-stupid packaging techniques. Styrofoam has become
standard in GW boxes. Whatever happened to large blister packs???
Someone defended GW saying they are going through a financially rough
period. So what? All companies go through rough spots. Good companies
survive them by instilling confidence in their consumers (look at
Chrysler). Bad companies fail because they decide to fuck the consumer
for their own wallets.
Tyr...@aol.com is a GW employee. To ensure my critics that GW is
listening I will not only post this here, but send it on to him via email.
els
Eric L. Sarlin
someone else on the group wanted to buy the old plastic boxed set of Space
Marines. What a deal that was. Can't quote esact figures here, but, as I
remember, one could get about 30 SM's for about $25. Now it would cost a
lot more.
els
Tyranid
me your comments; posting them here allows for the chance I won't see it.
I take them all in for the proper people (I'm in Convention Support, so I
don't have much to say on sales). We do read all comments sent, so fire
away!
Tim Huckelbery
Convention Support Liaison & Net Rep
Games Workshop USA
<tyr...@aol.com>
Tyranid
Snail your comments! Posting them here (where I might miss them) doesn't
accomplish much but waste electrons. Type them up & mail them to us (or
the UK, depending on where you are). It's the best way to show you are
serious.
OK. Carry on.
He whose name must not be spoken...
JGerman278 <jgerm...@aol.com> wrote:
>>Other companies make paints and brushes better and cheaper.
>If this gets our message across,
>
>My ass they do. Partha paints are chalky, and Polly S just plain suck.
>Armory paints separate....
Yah, I definitely like the citadel paints the best of all the miniautures-
specific brands. Actually, for a lot of stuff, I use acrylic craft paints,
which cost about $1 for a 4 oz bottle, and while they don't hold detail well
for faces, etc. they are just great for doing large areas (I am currently
painting a Tyranid brood with Apple Spice Red skin and Honey Mustard talons;
looks great! :-) I particularly like the Citadel flesh tones and metallics,
though; I have had to fight the temptation to coat all of my figures in boltgun
metal, because it looks so good! I've also used tube acrylics in a pinch,
which give really good colors, but are difficult to work with if you're not
used to them, since they are really thick straight out of the tube...
Regarding brushes, you all should treat yourself to a good pure sable
watercolor brush (Grumbacher and Windsor & Newton are really good brands) -
it will cost you between $5 and $7, but they last a good while if you are
nice to them, and they are tons easier to work with - all the brushes I've
ever bought at gaming shops are pure crap.
Daniel Heald
> I would not bother to post this if I did not think that in general GW
> offers superior products (rules, figs, paints). [Though I do think the
> best brushes are to be found in art shops.]
>
> Nonetheless, I think GW marketing strategies have been a total scam over
> the last few years. ... I point out my post
> on another thread in which I reminded everyone that one could purchase the
> Skeleton Army Boxed Set a few years ago--which included 30 skeleton
> infantry, 10 skeleton horsemen, and 1 undead chariot--for $25 dollars.
> Now, to buy the same amount of stuff, one has to buy 5 different boxed
> sets at a charge of at least $60 total. Not only is this a financial rip
> off, but it adds that much more packaging waste to an already taxed
> environment.
>
> I would support a petition against GW for both marketing tactics AND
> environmentally-stupid packaging techniques. Styrofoam has become
> standard in GW boxes. Whatever happened to large blister packs???
Quite right. What did happen to those boxed sets, like the terminator boxed set, or how about a pack of, say, demons, that's actually enough to make a squad?
The three plaguebearers in a set when you only need five is a rip off, and *limits* how much I spend on the damn things - i.e. I don't by them at all, and substitute some cheap stuff by another company that's a fraction of the price. I haven't heard any complaints from those I play against (although the Lego Predator may have been going a little far)
Anyone remember the Eldar Dreadnought blisterpacks? Even including inflation, they're still a damn sight cheaper then the current, boring boxed dreadnought that's mostly air and styrofoam. And there were different versions.
>
> Someone defended GW saying they are going through a financially rough
> period. So what? All companies go through rough spots. Good companies
> survive them by instilling confidence in their consumers (look at
> Chrysler). Bad companies fail because they decide to fuck the consumer
> for their own wallets.
If you can, go to other games stores. I know a couple of hobby stores that are selling discontinued but still servicable Citadel stuff at generous discounts. That's what GW policy is doing to my spending habits.
>
> Tyr...@aol.com is a GW employee. To ensure my critics that GW is
> listening I will not only post this here, but send it on to him via email.
But will they hear.........
--
Daniel Heald
Watson's Axiom - 95% of all animal species are invertebrate.
Anything else is a statistical aberration.
J. Hall
see a problem with their marketing strategies. I got lured in by the
miniatures. I was having a boring summer last year, and bought HeroQuest
in order to paint the miniatures. Lo and behold, I found that I enjoyed
playing the game with my five-year-old neighbor almost as much as I
enjoyed painting the miniatures. I ended up buying Battle Masters,
painting and playing that, too. Then I went off in search of more
plastic figures to paint. When a five-year-old is messing with your
stuff, plastic is best to have around. Most of them I found were pretty
damn awful (for instance, the lousy figures in TSR's Dragonstrike), but a
company I'd never heard of called Games Workshop had some pretty fun
figures. I got hooked, and bought Warhammer Quest as soon as it came
out. Right away, something smelled fishy. Most of the figures were not
new at all, but were straight out of WFB plastic boxed sets. The game
was so much fun to play, and the artwork so good that I let it slide.
Now I see that if I want to add characters beyond the initial four, I
have to pay sixteen bucks a pop. Not only that, but I have to wait
months for the ones I want to come out. I shudder to think what the
price of the Quest Pack will be. Look, I'm just a poor grad student who
likes to divert himself occasionally by painting quality miniatures and
playing fantasy RPG's. I can't support my hobby for much longer, though,
if the rewards are so expensive and infrequent.
J. Hall
-- Solitaire --
dwal...@wam.umd.edu (He whose name must not be spoken...) wrote:
Hi
> Regarding brushes, you all should treat yourself to a good pure sable
>watercolor brush (Grumbacher and Windsor & Newton are really good brands) -
>it will cost you between $5 and $7, but they last a good while if you are
>nice to them, and they are tons easier to work with - all the brushes I've
>ever bought at gaming shops are pure crap.
I only want to add, that if you use the technique called Drybruching - buy
cheep brushes! Drybruching eats cheap and expensive brushes just as quickly!
But for details a more expensive brush is a more sensible buy. But realy, U
should test a few different brands. Personaly I prefere nylon for the realy
small details like spiritstones and smaler things. For "middle" sized things I
use a sable brush.
-- Solitaire --
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Because psychoanalytic theory portrays human as basically evil Freud saw the events
leading up to World War II as the natural consequence of the human agressive drive
when it is not held in check.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
James Wallis
> Now Now watch out what you say or might get in to the black book
> that GW UK keeps of people who say negative things about them.
>
> Don't ask how I know I just do.
Hang on a second.
I started my first fanzine in 1982, and continued editing fanzines
until 1987, by which time I was getting enough professional work
published that it wasn't worth the bother any more. During those
years I said a lot of very rude and often completely untrue things
about GW in print. Sometimes it was in small photocopied 'zines
with a circulation of fifty copies. Occasionally it was in more
substantial organs, selling thousands of copies. I was young, I
was foolish, I had a short temper, and I forgot that GW, like any
business, existed to survive and make money.
If GW has a "Black Book", I'm in it. Several times. And yet here I
am, running the company that now publishes the "Warhammer FRP"
game in English. I deal with GW on a regular basis. Some of the
people there remember the old fanzines (some of them used to edit
fanzines themselves), but nobody's bothered about what I said in
them.
"Black Book"? I don't think so. And if they did have one, you know
they'd call it the "Book of Grudges" anyway.
Travis W. Hunter
that GW will tell someone not to talk bad out them on the net. They
simply have no right and can do nothing to you. If I've got something
to say, by god I will. I do see that GW does have a nasty habit of
price increasement but there is nothing that I care to do about it. I
don't want to go on and yell and bawl about it because then I'm not
solving anything. What I do is simply don't buy their new stuff. For
instance, I have an Undead Army and I think they are way cool. After
three hundred dollars I now barely have enough to field 3,000 pts. I
was about to buy almost that same amount of money to boost up my
Undead Army but I sat down and thought about it. The money just isn't
well placed and I can use it elsewhere. So all I did was put the
money in the bank and went on with life. End of story. I haven't
bought a lot latley and I am much more happy about it. No point to
prove, no nothing. Just some money GW wont get from me.
It is sad because they got a great game going here but it is not my
life, thank god. I can put my interest's somewhere else and where
does that place GW. OUT OF MY LIFE!
Lucky for me I got 90% of their minatures from someone else or back
when lead was fifty percent off or even up to ninety percent off. I
will buy some new stuff but never will I buy a brand new army. So
just do that, buy what you like and drop the rest. Otherwise, you
will be so broke it won't even be funny.
Eric L. Sarlin
Tyranid@aol (a GW employee) sent me a private email message (which
unfortunately I deleted) after I complained about the huge increase in
prices. He informed me in a really snooty tone that he could remember
when comics were a dime, implying that GW's price increases are due solely
to inflation.
Bull...no other products I buy regularly went up 250 percent in the past
couple of years. Plastic skeletons did. Many other GW products saw
similar increases.
Plus I've never seen a comic book packaged in styrofoam. What market
forces drove GW to this decision? Simply put, they need the extra
packaging to fill a larger box which looks like it might be full of
figures and accessories. Bottom line: you're still paying way too much
for 10 plastic models.
This snooty, bugger-off attitude that GW employees are directing toward
their customers really instills confidence in us as consumers doesn't it?
Companies that get too big for their britches get in trouble. As many
people have pointed out, Heartbreaker makes a fine line of figures.
Similarly, Steve Jackson Games will soon (hopefully) come out with a set
of rules for miniatures combat called _Hot Lead_. GW has competition, and
that competition is growing in strength. So keep raising prices and
acting snooty, Games Workshop. I'd love to see the old dinosaur turn to
oil.
els
JGerman278
turned out.
jeremy
Naggaroth
Hilal) writes:
>Lyle Closs (cl...@cix.compulink.co.uk) wrote:
>: I agree. And guess what. Now they put 4 troops in the aspect warrior nd
>: guardian packes, when the standrd is5, and they used to have 5.
Bastards
>: that is so rough.
>
>: Pete
>
>Four???? Where the hell do you live? I haven't seen four since lead
>died. All the pewter blisters that I see are 2 figs.
Pay attention pal. What do you think the .UK stands for in
"cl...@cix.compulink.co.uk"? The internet isn't just the United States,
butthead.
Nag
Tyranid
it calmly and see there was no "snooty tone." Sorry if you found it that
way; it wasn't intended. I don't do snooty; I go straight to annoying
twit mode when I flame...
2. If anyone from GW told anyone to cease comments on usenet, then I
apologize for them. I want to find out who it was, though. Send me the
name!
Tyranid
made for drybrushing, and stay together after tons of use (2 months and
still counting, 150+ figs and I drybrush like mad as I'm usually in a
hurry).
Da Huckster aka
Joseph Goodman
Baranski) wrote:
> Some time ago I mentioned some of my opinions about the way GWUK price
> their articles and what I thought of it, well yesterday I got a message
> from GWUK that I should not say bad things about them on the net.
> I can only say one thing about that:: GW go and fuck yourself.
If GW representatives are actually telling people not to talk low of GW on
the net, that's pretty damn pathetic. If you live in America you have your
first amendment right to say whatever you want on this forum, barring
slander, libel, and any profanity covered by the Communications Decency
Act. If you live elsewhere, you're probably far enough away to hide from
GW ;).
Say what you want.
--
Joseph Goodman
aka Hillbilly Bob
jgoo...@cc.swarthmore.edu
Editor and Publisher of The Dark Library, a magazine for 40K
My 40K Page: http://sccs.swarthmore.edu/~bigearl/war40K.html
Swarthmore Bolo Page: http://sccs.swarthmore.edu/~bigearl
Quahog 25
water base. Poly-Flo, and especially those tall ones you get from the
craft stores cover MUCH better,tho-you can actually, say, paint yellow on
black. However they are too thick and not as good colours.
Of course, oils like Humbrol are much nicer, but they are smelly and
messy.
Jonathan Dean
>I just had to put in my two cents worth. I think that it is crazy
>that GW will tell someone not to talk bad out them on the net. They
>simply have no right and can do nothing to you. If I've got something
>to say, by god I will.
By all means do so. Bad mouth away. The thing is, GW may not be
listening. Tyranid is only doing this part-time, so he probably isn't
forwarding all of the complaints to people who can do something about
it.
However, GW will listen to you if you send a letter directly to them.
Tyranid was suggesting that if people wanted to make REAL changes they
should get in touch, via the Post Office, with GW.
If you want to scream and bitch knowing that nothing is going to come
of it then by all means do so. That way when GW increases their
prices again ('cause the don't know about your complaint) you can
still have something to yell about.
>I do see that GW does have a nasty habit of price increasement but
>there is nothing that I care to do about it. I don't want to go on
>and yell and bawl about it because then I'm not solving anything.
>What I do is simply don't buy their new stuff.
Actually, there is a real (or at least semi-real) chance that
something CAN be done about it. There are thousands of people reading
this newsgroup hopefully. If even half of them sent something to GW
they can't really ignore it. Each letter that someone sends is
supposed to represent 10 people with similar opinions (nine of which
didn't bother to spend the effort to be noticed). One thousand
letters would represent 10,000 upset gamers. Now, I don't think GW
can completely ignore something like that. They may (or may not) drop
their prices, but they probably wouldn't increase them in the near future.
>No point to prove, no nothing. Just some money GW wont get from me.
Write a letter, buy a stamp (32 cents), and TELL GW that you used to
collect their figures, but you stopped because of their prices. That
would have more impact on GW than simply not buying their products.
>Lucky for me I got 90% of their minatures from someone else or back
>when lead was fifty percent off or even up to ninety percent off. I
>will buy some new stuff but never will I buy a brand new army. So
>just do that, buy what you like and drop the rest. Otherwise, you
>will be so broke it won't even be funny.
Don't EVER underestimate the influence your voice can have.
--
Jonathan Dean | "I perfer to leave dragonslaying to those in good
jd...@psl.nmsu.edu | standing with their gods."
Greywolf
so crude as to include expletives in the /subject line/ of all places.
In article <804409...@hogshead.demon.co.uk>, James Wallis <wf...@hogshead.demon.co.uk> writes:
> If GW has a "Black Book", I'm in it. Several times. And yet here I
> am, running the company that now publishes the "Warhammer FRP"
> game in English. I deal with GW on a regular basis. Some of the
> people there remember the old fanzines (some of them used to edit
> fanzines themselves), but nobody's bothered about what I said in
> them.
Speaking of WFRP, there are a number of folks locally who are pretty happy to
see the game coming back, and they've got a poster/flyer/ad hanging up now.
The guy in charge of the games section told me he intends to devote a whole
shelf to WFRP material. Sounds like there's a lot of interest out there! =)
--
-Jordan PEACO...@cobra.uni.edu Illustrator/programmer/ ..
T. Jordan "Greywolf" Peacock desktop publisher for hire! .OO.
I love God, family, friends, unicorns, wolves, LARPs, RPGs, minis, O/\O
doodling, sculpting, writing, old cars, meks, and crab rangoons! =) ~~
Travis W. Hunter
I like Citadeal paints but I HATE their lids!!!!!!!!!! Half the
f------ time I can't get the dumb things off. I hate Partha paints
but at least I can twist their lids off.
Travis W. Hunter
>I would not bother to post this if I did not think that in general GW
>offers superior products (rules, figs, paints). [Though I do think the
>best brushes are to be found in art shops.]
>Nonetheless, I think GW marketing strategies have been a total scam over
>the last few years. [Again, I'm glad to say that I purchased my 8 armies
>before the bulk of the marketing changes had occured.] I point out my post
>on another thread in which I reminded everyone that one could purchase the
>Skeleton Army Boxed Set a few years ago--which included 30 skeleton
>infantry, 10 skeleton horsemen, and 1 undead chariot--for $25 dollars.
>Now, to buy the same amount of stuff, one has to buy 5 different boxed
>sets at a charge of at least $60 total. Not only is this a financial rip
>off, but it adds that much more packaging waste to an already taxed
>environment.
I do admit that they have an insane price increase and their packages
are a waste of space in the trash dump places. But, I like how their
boxes come with all that extra packagin as it gives me boxes and
stirofoam to store my stuff in. Without it my minatures would be all
over the place. Even though I pay a lot for my minatures as least I
don't have to go out and buy school boxes to store my stuff in.
James Wallis
> Speaking of WFRP, there are a number of folks locally who are pretty happy to
> see the game coming back, and they've got a poster/flyer/ad hanging up now.
> The guy in charge of the games section told me he intends to devote a whole
> shelf to WFRP material. Sounds like there's a lot of interest out there! =)
Top news! Excellent. I'm sitting here with the final proofs of
APOCRYPHA NOW in front of me, ready to go off to print on Monday
(soon as we have the cover film), and it's been a hard slog to get
it ready, but it's nice to know that there are people who are
actually eager to see this stuff.
Travis W. Hunter
>In article <3ss4gs$8...@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> m...@cis.ohio-state.edu (Travis W. Hunter) writes:
>>I just had to put in my two cents worth. I think that it is crazy
>>that GW will tell someone not to talk bad out them on the net. They
>>simply have no right and can do nothing to you. If I've got something
>>to say, by god I will.
>By all means do so. Bad mouth away. The thing is, GW may not be
>listening. Tyranid is only doing this part-time, so he probably isn't
>forwarding all of the complaints to people who can do something about
>it.
Thanks for the response and all. I'm glad someone read this article
but I feel that you are in confusion about where I am coming from. I
don't give a two cents that GW doesn't respond to my complaining. I
didn't even mention in my earlier aritcle about me being mad about
them not responding. I was just telling people that I stopped buying
a lot of their newer stuff because I had to place my money elsewhere.
I'm not trying to prove anything to GW nor anyone else. I just like
to blab on the innernet. I am glad that GW is out of my life for I
can't afford their newer stuff. I am not mad nor am I trying to get
them to lower their prices. Just thought I'd clear this up. GW can
do whatever they want with their prices and I may gripe about it but
never, ever, will I try to get them to lower their prices. It's their
business and I have little say in the matter. But, I think from now
on I will mail in my comments to GW so I'll keep the bad vibes off
from the net from now on. Or at least I'll try to.
Joel E Slovacek
> their articles and what I thought of it, well yesterday I got a message
> from GWUK that I should not say bad things about them on the net.
> I can only say one thing about that:: GW go and fuck yourself.
If you said some bad things about *me* on the net, I'd send you a message
to tell you to stop. Especially if you posted it on alt.joels-world. :)
> I was thinking of getting a second WHFB army but now I would say
> to anybody is don't buy GW stuff, I certainly won't.
> (I have a 6000 pts. WHFB Empire, 8000 pts. EPIC Tyranids, 1000 pts.
> MOW Bretonian, 1000 MOW High Elf, Everything from the WHQ serie.)
> I won't be expanding anything anymore.
That's fine with me.
> Player of Magic and Jyhad by Wizards of the Coast
You complain about GW being pricy bastards, yet you play Magic card
games? These are the same games that have the "more money you spend on
us, the better your magic deck is?"
Games Workshop is a company. A sucessful company. And so is that company
who released the magic card games. They are also geniuses. Who should
you be mad at?
Brother Captain Daedalus
Deathwing Company
Dark Angel Chapter
Legiones Astartes
--
/ Joel Slovacek \ It's always easier to ask for forgiveness
< Carnegie Mellon/George Mason > than to ask for permission.
\ js...@andrew.cmu.edu / Leo, your mom called.
Michael Cooney
I don't have anything useful to say here, I just got a kick out of this
subject line and wanted to see it again in the headlines :)
Cooney
(I'm not 12, but I can sure act it at times!)
Neil Brown
Keller) writes:
> > : Unfortunately, I love the games too much to boycott GW.
> >
> > Unfortunately this one line will inevitably undermine any sort of attempt
> > to get GW to lower its prices. Until they see a drop in profits thier
> > prices will _never_ go down. You do have a point with the packaging,
> > though. That could very well be made into a major enough point if some
> > orginized environmental pressure was applied.
> >
> > zippy
> Now Now watch out what you say or might get in to the black book
> that GW UK keeps of people who say negative things about them.
> Don't ask how I know I just do.
> BTW If anyone from GW is reading this go f......... yourself.
> Some time ago I mentioned some of my opinions about the way GWUK price
> their articles and what I thought of it, well yesterday I got a message
> from GWUK that I should not say bad things about them on the net.
> I can only say one thing about that:: GW go and fuck yourself.
> I was thinking of getting a second WHFB army but now I would say
> to anybody is don't buy GW stuff, I certainly won't.
> (I have a 6000 pts. WHFB Empire, 8000 pts. EPIC Tyranids, 1000 pts.
> MOW Bretonian, 1000 MOW High Elf, Everything from the WHQ serie.)
> I won't be expanding anything anymore.
> BTW2 Have a nice day folks.
> ========================================================================
> Baranski, A.S. Student Software Engineering and Database Design
> Currently stagiare at the European Space research and Technology Centre
> Player of Mighty Empires, Epic and WarHammer by Games WorkShop
> Player of Magic and Jyhad by Wizards of the Coast
> e-Mail : Antoni....@si.hhs.nl
> e-Mail : an...@wg.estec.esa.nl
> e-Mial : asba...@vmprofs.estec.esa.nl
now, am i detecting a little hostility here?
Vos MC
: In article <3slv81$p...@umt.umt.edu>, zi...@selway.umt.edu (David M Keller) writes:
: > : Unfortunately, I love the games too much to boycott GW.
: >
: > Unfortunately this one line will inevitably undermine any sort of attempt
: > to get GW to lower its prices. Until they see a drop in profits thier
: > prices will _never_ go down. You do have a point with the packaging,
: > though. That could very well be made into a major enough point if some
: > orginized environmental pressure was applied.
: Now Now watch out what you say or might get in to the black book
: that GW UK keeps of people who say negative things about them.
I've been thinking lately about making my own line of fantasy wargames.
If a corporation has a monopoly on something, break that monopoly.
If a good, _well balanced_, and still very cool (the coolness and
spectacularity is the main strength of the GW products) fantasy
(or science fantasy) war game is made, and supported by a decent number
of people on the net, GW is simply _forced_ to make their stuff more
customer-friendly.
I've been walking around with ideas to make a good fantasy table-top
game since I started playing WFB 3rd edition (mainly because it was
too slow, and also because it was unbalanced). If I can get a group
of people together who thinks the same way about this, I'd love to make
a serious attempt to make a (or several) game(s) that can compete
with GWs (and is a lot cheaper (free, if at al possible)).
Regards,
mcv. <><
-- Solitaire --
>No offense Tim, but I for one would be much more encouraged to respond
>positively to posts to you and this newsgroup if I actually got a reply. I've
>sent several posts to you since you've been back and haven't heard back once.
>The problem with this as perceived at least by me is a validation that GW
>really doesn't care, so why bother?
>Lon Van Vorous
Hi
Are you sure your mails got through to him?
I have always got a re-mail the day after when I send him a message/question!
I think his service are very good.
IMO! of course.
Bill Langston
> Similarly, Steve Jackson Games will soon (hopefully) come out with a set
> of rules for miniatures combat called _Hot Lead_. GW has competition, and
> that competition is growing in strength.
Let's hope this actually happens. Steve Jackson Games seems to use the same
process to release games that GW uses to determine point values (i.e. erratic
and casual - "Hey Dave, whaddaya think this is worth? 75 points, OK" ...
"Gee, shouldn't we release this game we've been advertising for months? Naw,
let's work on something else for a while.") If and when Hot Lead comes out,
I think there might be a mass migration, at least among my crowd, who are
tired of paying 2-3 times what miniatures are worth.
--Bill
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Langston - "Garg'n uair dhuisgear"
Internet: wfl...@tntech.edu TECNET: TTU::WFL4468
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Medak
Mark Medak
Tyranid
pictures
turned out.
Thanks! It will also be at Gencon (with even more new Tyranids!)
Tyranid
positively to posts to you and this newsgroup if I actually got a reply
Sorry, I'm still working through the massive pile of emails that got built
up while we were busy with Games Day. I will respond to each and every
one I got, never fear.
Tyranid
Some pretty disturbing stuff.
And I'm still waiting for the name of the store and the people involved so
I can resolve it and direct heavy weapons fire at the person at GWUK who
did it. Get me some names! Don't just post stuff like this, give me some
data so I can deal with it. It's like calling in a crime, then refusing
to give the cops info so they can respond. So harm will come to the store
or the person who works there.
Seriously, I'm pretty pissed on this one and want to see it stopped dead.
Get me info!
James Wallis
> No offense Tim, but I for one would be much more encouraged to respond
> sent several posts to you since you've been back and haven't heard back once.
Of course, if you're expecting email, it might help if you gave
a valid email address to reply to. "lvv" isn't going to help anybody.
Tom Granvold
>
>I've been thinking lately about making my own line of fantasy wargames.
>If a corporation has a monopoly on something, break that monopoly.
>
>If a good, _well balanced_, and still very cool (the coolness and
>spectacularity is the main strength of the GW products) fantasy
>(or science fantasy) war game is made, and supported by a decent number
>of people on the net, GW is simply _forced_ to make their stuff more
>customer-friendly.
A fine though ambitious idea. If you set this up as a company to
make, even a little, profit, then you have a huge amount of work to
do. If it is to be a free game distributed via the net then your not
so crazy. Anyway, two comments:
1 - There is already a free game for miniatures available on the net
called GEM. This may be too generic for what you are considering.
There is also Dirtside II, a cheap but decent set of rules for
science fiction setting.
2 - I'd like to see a new version of Man 0' War, but what would we
do for miniatures except to pay GW's prices for what remains of
the Man O' War ships?
Have fun,
Tom Granvold <thomas....@eng.sun.com>
Lon VanVorous
positively to posts to you and this newsgroup if I actually got a reply. I've
sent several posts to you since you've been back and haven't heard back once.
Adam Wood
> guardian packes, when the standrd is5, and they used to have 5.
> Bastards that is so rough.
Infact it varied Pete, initially it was four - then five and now four
again, although I think I can still find blisters of five at my local
stockist (they're that slow at shifting stuff)
Adam Wood - adam...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Adam Wood
They have very little competition in many parts of England, where
companies such as HB are not publicised widely at all.
Adam Wood - adam...@cix.compulink.co.uk
A. Baranski
> > Some time ago I mentioned some of my opinions about the way GWUK price
> > their articles and what I thought of it, well yesterday I got a message
> > from GWUK that I should not say bad things about them on the net.
> > I can only say one thing about that:: GW go and fuck yourself.
>
> to tell you to stop. Especially if you posted it on alt.joels-world. :)
>
and second they were my opinions on their pricing policy and the works.
BTW It wasn't Tim (Tyr...@aol.com) who tolled me so. But a guy from GWUK
directly so GWUK has some people on the internet as the message about the
pricing was sent to this group only.
> > I was thinking of getting a second WHFB army but now I would say
> > to anybody is don't buy GW stuff, I certainly won't.
> > (I have a 6000 pts. WHFB Empire, 8000 pts. EPIC Tyranids, 1000 pts.
> > MOW Bretonian, 1000 MOW High Elf, Everything from the WHQ serie.)
>
> > I won't be expanding anything anymore.
>
> That's fine with me.
>
I wonder why........
> > Player of Magic and Jyhad by Wizards of the Coast
>
> You complain about GW being pricy bastards, yet you play Magic card
> games? These are the same games that have the "more money you spend on
> us, the better your magic deck is?"
>
This is total and utter bull-shit, I have a 90 card deck which consists of
mostrly common cards and maybe 10 rares and it beats the crap oput of these
mucho expensive decks. And its not WotC that make the cards expensive
its demand and offer in the rec.games.trading-cards.marketplace group
that set the prices for the cards.
And yes I do have a compleet alpha, beta and unlimted Magic set
> Games Workshop is a company. A sucessful company. And so is that company
> who released the magic card games. They are also geniuses. Who should
> you be mad at?
>
The difference is that with Magic you know up front that you need more then
just one starter deck to play where as GW promote all of their games as stand
alone games, but then you realise that you need to buy the expansion if you
want to make the playable.
> Brother Captain Daedalus
> Deathwing Company
> Dark Angel Chapter
> Legiones Astartes
> --
> / Joel Slovacek \ It's always easier to ask for forgiveness
> < Carnegie Mellon/George Mason > than to ask for permission.
> \ js...@andrew.cmu.edu / Leo, your mom called.
JGerman278
jeremy
Travis W. Hunter
>DAmn straight! I'm eager at least. WFRP is the best rpg I've even seen...
>jeremy
I agree. I hate Dungeons and Dragons! But, WFRP has a lot to it.
The occupations like Witch Hunter or Necromancer, or Troll Slayer was
outstanding. Plus, what I loved was how it took only a while to
advance to higher levels and once you were there you were as far as
you could go. Then I could create another cool character and start
all over again. We did that eight times in one summer, starting new
characters after we completed our old ones. D and D took me six years
to reach level 15. BORING!!!! And that was with cheating my butt off
to acheive that goal. But, I wont play role playing games anymore,
sorta lost interest in them over the last four years.
Mikko Kurki-Suonio
: 1 - There is already a free game for miniatures available on the net
: called GEM. This may be too generic for what you are considering.
Unfortunately, GEM is too incomplete to be playable.
--
max...@swob.nullnet.fi (Mikko Kurki-Suonio) | A pig who doesn't fly
+358 50 5596411 GSM +358 0 80926 78/SwOb 81/Voice | is just an ordinary pig.
Snail: Maininkitie 8A8 02320 ESPOO FINLAND | - Porco Rosso
Http://www.hut.fi/~maxxon/index.html |
m.a.jones
: >Other companies make paints and brushes better and cheaper.
: If this gets our message across,
: My ass they do. Partha paints are chalky, and Polly S just plain suck.
: Armory paints separate...
This sounds a trite pro-GW to the extreme, I've used all the above mentioned
acrylics including the GW paints and reckon that they all have their own pros
and cons. I don't like GW, but then thats my personal opinion. They produce
some very nice figures and so do a lot of other companies.
I think people who slag of other manufactures are as short sighted as those who
blindly slag of GW. I've seen some very good figures rounded on in these pages
just because they are not GW, when if you look at the sculptors they used to
work for GW and then you would praise their designs.
If people are complaining all the time why are they still buying GW products?
Because they like the GW style and games? To be honest since the slot bases came
out I have only bought GW figures on sale and then mostly the old Starfleet and
some epic scale stuff to suppplement other figure ranges and games. Then the
figures were very cheap and thats is one of my criteria for buying figures.
This page can at times be interesting, don't let it slide into treads of I slag
this and you slag that, but use it to devlop ideas on rules models painting
scenery etc... thats whats interesting I don't care who likes or dilikes GW just
what people do to improve the games they play!
MJones
__________
Aberdeen