Khaine is Khorne?
elgnomo
Just that question, Khaine is Khorne? Don't know if that question has
already a thread in this group, but please, answer it. For years the same
discution has threads in our mailing list, and we can't determine it.
Sorry about my english, it isn't my primary language.
Salud! (Regards!)
elgnomo
Steve Dixon
"elgnomo" <elg...@QUITAESTOiname.com> wrote in message
news:8sf3s5$scg$1...@diana.bcn.ttd.net...
Judus
rather than a God of Blood and War in fantasy games.
elgnomo
"Steve Dixon" say:
> Yes. Khaine is the Eldar name / Dark Elf name for Khorne.
But, if this is correct, Eldar in 40k are devote to Khorne?
Salud! (Regards!)
elgnomo
dango...@my-deja.com
> Yes. Khaine is the Eldar name / Dark Elf name for Khorne.
Hang on a sec - I thought Khaine was the god of war, whereas Khorne is
the god of blood.
- Matt
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Tobias Reinold
>
>
>Hang on a sec - I thought Khaine was the god of war, whereas Khorne is
>the god of blood.
>
Different peoples/races have different point of views.
Maybe you know this story about a Roman emperor (Konstantin?) who vowed to
the Christian god that if he'll help him win an important battle by divine
powers, he'll establish Christianity in the Roman Empire?
For this emperor, the Christian god, mostly associated with love and justice
(we know reality proves better) was a pure war god for this Roman leader,
who painted crosses on all Roman soldier's shields and prayed to God before
battle.
And for all Americans who just *do* need a happy end:
Yes, he did win and Christianity was the official Roman religion.
Therfore the pope in rome, christianity in whole Europe and eventually in
America. Yay.
Tobias
Ralf van den Broek
> It could well be, but Caine is normally shown as being the first vampire
> rather than a God of Blood and War in fantasy games.
>
The name Khaine is a phonetic variant to Cain, from the Old Testament
(iirc, I've never been too good at those things). The first Vampires in
WFB fluff are those members of the Nekhekharan aristocracy who took the
serum of eternal life.
g.b...@ix.netcom.com
dango...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>
>> Yes. Khaine is the Eldar name / Dark Elf name for Khorne.
>
>
>Hang on a sec - I thought Khaine was the god of war, whereas Khorne is
>the god of blood.
>
>- Matt
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
Khaine is the Eldar god of War; Khorne is a Chaos Power, also known as the Blood God.
There are some similarities between Khaine and Khorne, and between some of their followers.
Khorne is opposed to Slannesh; after the 'birth' of Slannesh, the Eldar were saved by Khaine,
who battled Slannesh. Also look at some of the models, especially the Avatar and the Shining
Spears. They all have adornments on their helmets similar to the Khorne Beserkers. Then there's
the simple stuff like Khaine - Khorne, Bloody-handed God - Blood God....theres more but I'm
doing this all from the top of my head.
So while unconfirmed by GW, there are too many similarities to argue.
Aristeia
> Different peoples/races have different point of views.
> Maybe you know this story about a Roman emperor (Konstantin?)
That's the one.
> who vowed to the Christian god that if he'll help him win an
> important battle by divine powers, he'll establish Christianity in the
> Roman Empire? For this emperor, the Christian god, mostly associated
> with love and justice (we know reality proves better) was a pure war
> god for this Roman leader, who painted crosses on all Roman soldier's
> shields and prayed to God before battle.
Any god worthy of worship should deliver success in *all* ventures that
his or her followers undertake. :)
> And for all Americans who just *do* need a happy end:
> Yes, he did win and Christianity was the official Roman religion.
> Therfore the pope in rome, christianity in whole Europe and eventually
> in America. Yay.
Wait a sec, where's the promised happy ending??!! I'm an American and I
was promised a happy ending . . .
Aristeia
Tobias Reinold
just for those who care:
Kain (=Cain/Caine/Khain/Kane/Cane) is the second son of Adam and Eve, he
murdered his elder brother Abel because he was jealous on him how God liked
Abel.
So he is supposed to wander around on Earth with a sign on his foreskin,
without being able to touched but with an eternal sin.
(I hope I am right on this)
Tobias
Tobias Reinold
>"Tobias Reinold" <Toxi...@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>> Different peoples/races have different point of views.
>> Maybe you know this story about a Roman emperor (Konstantin?)
>
>That's the one.
Ahh, nothing over Classical Education.
>
>> who vowed to the Christian god that if he'll help him win an
>> important battle by divine powers, he'll establish Christianity in the
>> Roman Empire? For this emperor, the Christian god, mostly associated
>> with love and justice (we know reality proves better) was a pure war
>> god for this Roman leader, who painted crosses on all Roman soldier's
>> shields and prayed to God before battle.
>
>Any god worthy of worship should deliver success in *all* ventures that
>his or her followers undertake. :)
Is there a Sex God? :-)
>> And for all Americans who just *do* need a happy end:
>> Yes, he did win and Christianity was the official Roman religion.
>> Therfore the pope in rome, christianity in whole Europe and eventually
>> in America. Yay.
>
>Wait a sec, where's the promised happy ending??!! I'm an American and I
>was promised a happy ending . . .
>
LOL, now when I think of it, maybe it was a mistake by the Good Lord.
Tobias
Aristeia
"Tobias Reinold" <Toxi...@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> just for those who care:
>
> Kain (=Cain/Caine/Khain/Kane/Cane) is the second son of Adam and Eve,
> he murdered his elder brother Abel because he was jealous on him how
> God liked Abel.
>
> So he is supposed to wander around on Earth with a sign on his
> foreskin, without being able to touched but with an eternal sin.
>
> (I hope I am right on this)
I always heard that the mark was placed on his fore_head_, though I'm
not sure the Bible actually says that . . . big BIG difference between
that and the foreskin! :-)
Tobias Reinold
Oh shit. Forhead of course.
See, that happens if you have only one thing on your mind!
Tobias
Jakearon
Neal
elgnomo wrote:
> > Yes. Khaine is the Eldar name / Dark Elf name for Khorne.
>
> But, if this is correct, Eldar in 40k are devote to Khorne?
The Eldar sacrifice an Aspect Warrior to activate the "Avatar of the
Bloody-Handed God" for battle, and he wears the same moose horns as
Khorne Berzerkers.
Judus wrote:
>
> It could well be, but Caine is normally shown as being the first vampire
> rather than a God of Blood and War in fantasy games.
"Normally" meaning "In White Wolf's World of Darkness". GW beat them to
the punch by about 10 years, and the Hebrews beat them both by about
4000 years.
-Neal
Neal
Tobias Reinold wrote:
> >> Kain (=Cain/Caine/Khain/Kane/Cane) is the second son of Adam and Eve,
> >> he murdered his elder brother Abel because he was jealous on him how
> >> God liked Abel.
> >>
> >> So he is supposed to wander around on Earth with a sign on his
> >> foreskin, without being able to touched but with an eternal sin.
> >>
> >> (I hope I am right on this)
> >
> >I always heard that the mark was placed on his fore_head_, though I'm
> >not sure the Bible actually says that . . . big BIG difference between
> >that and the foreskin! :-)
The standard Bible doesn't say anything about what kind of mark Caine
got. Some people don't even think it's a physical thing, others don't
think it was hereditary, etc. There may be cabalistic writings on this
but I'm not familiar with them.
In any case, Caine certainly got "touched" by someone, because the
Hebrews later conquered his decendants, the Canaanites, when they took
over Palestine (3000+ years ago or so).
-Neal
Tumart
Tobias Reinold wrote:
>
> just for those who care:
>
> Kain (=Cain/Caine/Khain/Kane/Cane) is the second son of Adam and Eve, he
> murdered his elder brother Abel because he was jealous on him how God liked
> Abel.
> So he is supposed to wander around on Earth with a sign on his foreskin,
> without being able to touched but with an eternal sin.
>
> (I hope I am right on this)
>
> Tobias
And on the off chance that there are those who care even more...
you're right except for one thing. Genesis does not anywhere say *where*
the mark was placed. It's rather doubtful it would have been on his
foreskin, though, since the intent was for people to readily see the
mark and know not to mess with God's ward. My copy of the New American
Bible for Catholics mentions the likelihood of it being a tattoo, citing
that tattoos were common among Middle Eastern nomads. Make of that what
you will... not being Christian, I'm not terribly concerned with what
sort of mark it was.
Incidentally, I've read that Constantine was a cruel and savage
emperor, but I've never come across anything suggesting that he viewed
God or Jesus as a war god. I'm not disputing that, but since I've
started getting into Late Antiquity history, perhaps you could advise me
where I could look for more info.
Hmm... I think I should probably put an OT in the subject header at
this point. :)
--
If you can walk on water, you are no better than a blade of grass.
If you can rise up in the air, you are no better than a fly.
Conquer your heart if you want to become somebody.
-Ansari
Tumart
kyllos wrote:
>
> "Tobias Reinold" <Toxi...@gmx.net> wrote in message
>
> > Kain (=Cain/Caine/Khain/Kane/Cane) is the second son of Adam and Eve, he
> > murdered his elder brother Abel because he was jealous on him how God liked
> > Abel.
> > So he is supposed to wander around on Earth with a sign on his foreskin,
> > without being able to touched but with an eternal sin.
> >
>
> Hence the practice of circumcision in certain religions?
>
> Andrew Kyllo
Oh goody, a second chance to put my CCD education to work! And I
thought all those Sundays in class after Church would go to waste...
little did I know I would be using my knowledge to waste RGMW bandwidth!
Circumcision in Judaism is a sign of Abraham (nee Abram) and his
covenant with God. While this is the Torah (in Genesis as well,
actually), nowhere is circumcision mentioned in the Qur'an. The
tradition in Muslim societies is just that: a tradition. I'm not aware
of a hadith mandating or even recommending it, though I could certainly
be wrong.
For the record, by the way, and to make this at least somewhat
on-topic, I don't believe Khaine and Khorne are the same at all. Khaine
was defeated by Slaanesh. The reason there are Avatars is because
that's all that's left of Khaine---he was ripped apart and barely
survived as these inchoate, scattered pieces of his former self.
Also... the Avatar has struck me as more concerned with efficiency and
death, and especially protecting Eldaar, rather than enjoying senseless
violence. Khorne has never been defeated personally by any of the Chaos
Gods and gets quite a kick from bloodiness and savagery, regardless of
who does the killing.
Riboflavin
> For the record, by the way, and to make this at least somewhat
>on-topic, I don't believe Khaine and Khorne are the same at all. Khaine
>was defeated by Slaanesh. The reason there are Avatars is because
>that's all that's left of Khaine---he was ripped apart and barely
>survived as these inchoate, scattered pieces of his former self.
So why do these pieces of Khaine have a mark of Khorne on their forehead? Is
it just style?
>Also... the Avatar has struck me as more concerned with efficiency and
>death, and especially protecting Eldaar, rather than enjoying senseless
>violence.
How are the Eldar's military campaigns described by everyone who sees them?
Hmm... they don't seem to make any sense, and supposedly it's because
farseers have subtle visions of strange things that are too complicated for
mere humans to understand. Or perhaps they see things made up by a Chaos
power to trick them into random acts of violence, which makes much more
sense.
> Khorne has never been defeated personally by any of the Chaos
>Gods and gets quite a kick from bloodiness and savagery, regardless of
>who does the killing.
>
So, if he had corrupted a race they'd run around the galaxy getting into
fights with no rhyme or reason (like the Eldar), occasionally possess
members of the (aspect) warrior caste with a bloodthirster (Avatar, somewhat
weak because of all the psychic stuff the Eldar has)?
I think it's most definately the case that Khorne managed to subtly subvert
the Craftworld Eldar (and remember that according to the Real Fluff Khorne
isn't as single-minded as he's shown now), and that he relishes in having
them preform random acts of violence when he sends visions through their
farseers while they believe themselves to be staunch enemies of chaos. The
irony of it is so beautiful. The other Eldar groups also have their
corruptions, Exodites with Nurgle, Harlequins with Tzeench, and Dark Eldar
with Slaanesh.
--
Kevin Allegood ribotr...@mindspring.pants.com
Remove the pants from my email address to reply
"If the Chinese language were made of Legos, you would have just
built a really elaborate postmodern drawbridge which collapsed,
killing twenty."-Kibo
Kaos Lord
Warplock Jezzail <warploc...@aol.comNO-UCE> wrote in message
news:8sghvs$asj$0...@63.90.193.161...
> "Tumart" <madm...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote...
> > For the record, by the way, and to make this at least
> > somewhat on-topic, I don't believe Khaine and Khorne
> > are the same at all.
>
> #249 ("Armies of the Witch King" paragraph) says, "The wildest of all are
> the Witch Elves -- a warrior sisterhood devoted to the Chaos God Khorne
who
> they call Khaine Lord of Murder". So it would appear that, officially at
> least, Khaine and Khorne *are* one and the same.
>
> I suppose you could probably argue semantics of the wording of that
sentence
> to mean that the Witch Elves worship Khorne (but call him Khaine), but it
> doesn't seem to be implying that to me. Seems to me that they're the same
> skull collector.
Is anyone else having thoughts of modeling an Eldar Avatar with an Axe of
Khorne?
--
Kaos
a ROGUE trader
Kaos Lord
Big Al <webm...@bastardsquad.org> wrote in message
news:39EBE29D...@bastardsquad.org...
<Snip>
> IT GETS BETTER AND BETTER! HEY, DID YOU KNOW THAN "CANE" IS ALSO A TYPE
> OF WOOD MADE FROM BAMBOO???!!!!
>
But wait there is more it seems the Khorne is pronounced CORN, which is in
the grain family and therefore a type of grass, JUST LIKE BAMBOO!
Riboflavin
elgnomo wrote in message <8sf7hi$p7l$1...@diana.bcn.ttd.net>...
>Hi,
>
>"Steve Dixon" say:
>
>> Yes. Khaine is the Eldar name / Dark Elf name for Khorne.
>
>But, if this is correct, Eldar in 40k are devote to Khorne?
>
of course.
kyllos
> >
> >> It could well be, but Caine is normally shown as being the first vampire
> >> rather than a God of Blood and War in fantasy games.
> >>
> >
> >(iirc, I've never been too good at those things). The first Vampires in
> >WFB fluff are those members of the Nekhekharan aristocracy who took the
> >serum of eternal life.
>
>
> murdered his elder brother Abel because he was jealous on him how God liked
> Abel.
> So he is supposed to wander around on Earth with a sign on his foreskin,
> without being able to touched but with an eternal sin.
>
Hence the practice of circumcision in certain religions?
Andrew Kyllo
Doug Butabi
Khaine iis the god of murder, maybe a variation of Khorne, a different
cultures way of worshipping a similar god.
--
Doug Butabi - Lone Warrior of Europa
"The beginning of love is to let those we love be perfectly themselves, and
not to twist them with our own image - otherwise, we love only the
reflection
of ourselves we find in them."
"Judus" <d...@tayside-records.co.uk> wrote in message
news:09FG5.37537$Cl1.979575@stones...
> It could well be, but Caine is normally shown as being the first vampire
> rather than a God of Blood and War in fantasy games.
>
>
Warplock Jezzail
> For the record, by the way, and to make this at least
> somewhat on-topic, I don't believe Khaine and Khorne
> are the same at all.
The new WFBv6 quick description of the Dark Elves on pg. 28 of White Dwarf
#249 ("Armies of the Witch King" paragraph) says, "The wildest of all are
the Witch Elves -- a warrior sisterhood devoted to the Chaos God Khorne who
they call Khaine Lord of Murder". So it would appear that, officially at
least, Khaine and Khorne *are* one and the same.
I suppose you could probably argue semantics of the wording of that sentence
to mean that the Witch Elves worship Khorne (but call him Khaine), but it
doesn't seem to be implying that to me. Seems to me that they're the same
skull collector.
just my two warp tokens,
- WJ
Brad Hann
>>was defeated by Slaanesh. The reason there are Avatars is because
>>that's all that's left of Khaine---he was ripped apart and barely
>>survived as these inchoate, scattered pieces of his former self.
>
>
>So why do these pieces of Khaine have a mark of Khorne on their forehead? Is
>it just style?
In 40K Khaine is as much a part of Slaanesh as Khorne. In WFB, well,
you can take your pick. He has been variously described in official
GW-produced literature as a) the human god of murder, Morr's brother
IIRC, patron of assassins and the like b) the elven god of murder c)
an aspect of Khorne. Go with whatever turns you on.
Brad
--
To mail me, you will need to remove one of the .au's from my address.
If you can't figure out which one, I probably don't want to hear from you.
Arcadia
vampire
> >> rather than a God of Blood and War in fantasy games.
> >>
> >
> >(iirc, I've never been too good at those things). The first Vampires
in
> >WFB fluff are those members of the Nekhekharan aristocracy who took
the
> >serum of eternal life.
>
> just for those who care:
>
> Kain (=Cain/Caine/Khain/Kane/Cane) is the second son of Adam and Eve,
he
> murdered his elder brother Abel because he was jealous on him how God
liked
> Abel.
> So he is supposed to wander around on Earth with a sign on his
foreskin,
> without being able to touched but with an eternal sin.
>
>
> Tobias
Though the bible does not say what kind of mark God placed upon Kain,
Some Hebrew tomes say that it was something akin to stag antlers, and
Kain actually built a great city and was a respected leader until his
curse got the better of him and some hunter mistook him for an animal
and shot him with an arrow.
Interesting then that the common mark between all khornate and khainite
uniforms are shapes that resenble abstracted antlers.
On a completely different note. A contemporary of mine once suggested
that the mark god put upon Kain was caucasian skin. Note that the
person who suggested it what white too. Just an odd thought, worth
pondering on saturday afternoon with beer readily in hand but not over
the internet.
--------------------------------
Arcadia
a.k.a. Jon Otto
Aristeia
Tumart <madm...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote:
>
> Incidentally, I've read that Constantine was a cruel and savage
> emperor, but I've never come across anything suggesting that he viewed
> God or Jesus as a war god. I'm not disputing that, but since I've
> started getting into Late Antiquity history, perhaps you could advise
> me where I could look for more info.
Here's a brief summary of Constantine's conversion, lifted from:
http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/EastEurope/ConstantineConve
rts.html
"His conversion happened during a war against his brother-in-law and
co-emperor, Maxentius. According to the historian Eusebius (see Eusebius
Pamphilus ), bishop of Caesarea in Palestine, before the crucial battle
of Milvian Bridge, Constantine was convinced that he needed divine
assistance. While he was praying for such assistance, God sent him a
vision of a cross of light at midday, bearing the inscription "in hoc
signo vinces " ("in this sign you will be victorious"). That night he
had a dream that reaffirmed his earlier vision. God told him to use the
sign he had been given as a safeguard in all of his battles. Thus,
Constantine converted to Christianity and ordered the symbol of his
Savior's name (the intersection of the Greek letter chi and rho) to
represent his army. Constantine was victorious in the battle of the
Milvian Bridge, and he continued to wear the symbol for Christ against
every hostile power he faced."
Big Al
>
> Hi,
>
> "Steve Dixon" say:
>
> > Yes. Khaine is the Eldar name / Dark Elf name for Khorne.
>
> But, if this is correct, Eldar in 40k are devote to Khorne?
No, their war-god is Khaine. Khaine and Khorne are simply different
aspects of the same basic lifestyle as reflected in the warp.
--
Big Al
Let's all be fucking retarded
http://www.bastardsquad.org
Email: webm...@bastardsquad.org
[ This space reserved for when one
of you deadheads manages to make
an amusing comment ]
Big Al
>
> And for all Americans who just *do* need a happy end:
> Yes, he did win and Christianity was the official Roman religion.
> Therfore the pope in rome, christianity in whole Europe and eventually in
> America. Yay.
That's happy? Fucking shit, you're a worst sadist than I will never
be. Suggesting that 2,000 years of christianity in Europe is a good
thing is like suggesting it would have been cool if Hitler had
established his Thousand Year Reich after all.
Big Al
>
> the eldar avatar is khaine incarnate
GOOD HEAVENS SHERLOCK, YOU ASTOUND ME!
Big Al
>
> It could well be, but Caine is normally shown as being the first vampire
> rather than a God of Blood and War in fantasy games.
What's everyone's favourite colour?
--
Big Al, if we're going to introduce fatuous and
entirely irrelevant themes, let's do it properly
Big Al
>
> Judus wrote:
>
> > It could well be, but Caine is normally shown as being the first vampire
> > rather than a God of Blood and War in fantasy games.
> >
>
> (iirc, I've never been too good at those things). The first Vampires in
> WFB fluff are those members of the Nekhekharan aristocracy who took the
> serum of eternal life.
IT GETS BETTER AND BETTER! HEY, DID YOU KNOW THAN "CANE" IS ALSO A TYPE
OF WOOD MADE FROM BAMBOO???!!!!
--
Big Al
Big Al
> >
> >> It could well be, but Caine is normally shown as being the first vampire
> >> rather than a God of Blood and War in fantasy games.
> >>
> >
> >The name Khaine is a phonetic variant to Cain, from the Old Testament
> >(iirc, I've never been too good at those things). The first Vampires in
> >WFB fluff are those members of the Nekhekharan aristocracy who took the
> >serum of eternal life.
>
>
> Kain (=Cain/Caine/Khain/Kane/Cane) is the second son of Adam and Eve, he
> murdered his elder brother Abel because he was jealous on him how God liked
> Abel.
> So he is supposed to wander around on Earth with a sign on his foreskin,
> without being able to touched but with an eternal sin.
>
> (I hope I am right on this)
No, you're wrong. The above is from an exceptionally poor fictional
work called "the Bible". If we're going to quote shitty books, let's
have another argument about flying Daemon Princes on Juggernauts as per
Codex: Chaos Space Marines.
Big Al
No, that particularly revolting practice can be attributed to sadistic
tribal fetishism. Much like eating one's ancestors' brains or staking
out your third child to feed the wolves.
kyllos
> kyllos wrote:
> >
> > "Tobias Reinold" <Toxi...@gmx.net> wrote in message
> > news:8sfm4p$9vi$03$1...@news.t-online.com...
> > > Ralf van den Broek schrieb in Nachricht <39EB538A...@oprit.rug.nl>...
> > > >Judus wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> It could well be, but Caine is normally shown as being the first vampire
> > > >> rather than a God of Blood and War in fantasy games.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >The name Khaine is a phonetic variant to Cain, from the Old Testament
> > > >(iirc, I've never been too good at those things). The first Vampires in
> > > >WFB fluff are those members of the Nekhekharan aristocracy who took the
> > > >serum of eternal life.
> > >
> > > just for those who care:
> > >
> > > Kain (=Cain/Caine/Khain/Kane/Cane) is the second son of Adam and Eve, he
> > > murdered his elder brother Abel because he was jealous on him how God liked
> > > Abel.
> > > So he is supposed to wander around on Earth with a sign on his foreskin,
> > > without being able to touched but with an eternal sin.
> > >
> >
> > Hence the practice of circumcision in certain religions?
>
> No, that particularly revolting practice can be attributed to sadistic
> tribal fetishism. Much like eating one's ancestors' brains or staking
> out your third child to feed the wolves.
>
I thought most religious practices were based on that sort of thing.
Andrew Kyllo
Tumart
Warplock Jezzail wrote:
>
> The new WFBv6 quick description of the Dark Elves on pg. 28 of White Dwarf
> #249 ("Armies of the Witch King" paragraph) says, "The wildest of all are
> the Witch Elves -- a warrior sisterhood devoted to the Chaos God Khorne who
> they call Khaine Lord of Murder". So it would appear that, officially at
> least, Khaine and Khorne *are* one and the same.
I haven't got my copy yet... it's always late for some reason. Ah
well, if that's how Games Workshop wants it, then I guess Khaine and
Khorne are different names for the same nasty bloodletting fellow.
It makes my Craftworld a bit less noble, but maybe this is a good
excuse to be more vicious....
Blackheart, The CEO of Hardcore
<elg...@QUITAESTOiname.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Just that question, Khaine is Khorne? Don't know if that question has
>already a thread in this group, but please, answer it. For years the same
>discution has threads in our mailing list, and we can't determine it.
>
>Sorry about my english, it isn't my primary language.
>
nope... Dark elves are fruits... not vegetables...
Blackheart
-----------------------------------------
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(You know... the ones that actually play the game.)
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Disclaimer: The opinions stated above are mine. If you don't agree, or just generally don't like them... then it sucks to be you.
And I still get my 40% discount...
"I've felt the hate rise up in me...
Kneel down and clear the stone of leaves...
I wander out where you can't see...
Inside my shell I'll wait and bleed..."
Judus
"Judus" <d...@tayside-records.co.uk> wrote in message
news:09FG5.37537$Cl1.979575@stones...
> It could well be, but Caine is normally shown as being the first vampire
> rather than a God of Blood and War in fantasy games.
>
>
> "elgnomo" <elg...@QUITAESTOiname.com> wrote in message
> news:8sf3s5$scg$1...@diana.bcn.ttd.net...
> > Hi,
> >
> > Just that question, Khaine is Khorne? Don't know if that question has
> > already a thread in this group, but please, answer it. For years the
same
> > discution has threads in our mailing list, and we can't determine it.
> >
> > Sorry about my english, it isn't my primary language.
> >
> > Salud! (Regards!)
> > elgnomo
> >
> >
>
>
P Bowles
>> Yes. Khaine is the Eldar name / Dark Elf name for Khorne.
>
>
>Hang on a sec - I thought Khaine was the god of war, whereas Khorne is
>the god of blood.
Khaine, the Lord of Murder is an aspect of Khorne. Kaela Mesha Khaine, the
Eldar god of war, is not the same entity and not part of Khorne - though Khorne
lays claim to his essence, he escaped into the mortal realm as the Avatars and
so is still separate from the Chaos God.
Philip Bowles
dango...@my-deja.com
> >Hang on a sec - I thought Khaine was the god of war, whereas Khorne
is
> >the god of blood.
>
> Khaine, the Lord of Murder is an aspect of Khorne. Kaela Mesha
Khaine, the
> Eldar god of war, is not the same entity and not part of Khorne -
though Khorne
> lays claim to his essence, he escaped into the mortal realm as the
Avatars and
> so is still separate from the Chaos God.
>
> Philip Bowles
So are you agreeing or disagreeing with the opinion that they are two
seperate entities (Khorne and Khaine that is)?
Matt.
P Bowles
>> >Hang on a sec - I thought Khaine was the god of war, whereas Khorne
>is
>> >the god of blood.
>>
>> Khaine, the Lord of Murder is an aspect of Khorne. Kaela Mesha
>Khaine, the
>> Eldar god of war, is not the same entity and not part of Khorne -
>though Khorne
>> lays claim to his essence, he escaped into the mortal realm as the
>Avatars and
>> so is still separate from the Chaos God.
>>
>> Philip Bowles
>
>So are you agreeing or disagreeing with the opinion that they are two
>seperate entities (Khorne and Khaine that is)?
There are two entities - Khaine, the Eldar war god, and Khorne, who also
contains the muderous aspect the Dark Elves worship, mistakenly thinking it to
be Khaine - but murder is no part of the real Khaine's make-up. Khorne did try
to absorb Kaela Mesha Khaine into himself during the Fall, but he escaped while
Khorne and Slaanesh were arguing over him. Obviously, if Khaine and Khorne were
the same being Khorne wouldn't have squabbled over him, and we also know that
Khorne is a whole entity dwelling in the Warp and not a large number of pieces
scattered throughout the mortal galaxy.
Philip Bowles
P Bowles
<ri...@mindspring.com> writes:
>Only Craftworld Eldar. The other 3 groups follow the other 3 chaos powers,
>of course.
Exodites of Nurgle? That's a new one...
Philip Bowles
hjda...@nospam.sympatico.ca
<dango...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8sffit$qd8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
>
> > Yes. Khaine is the Eldar name / Dark Elf name for Khorne.
>
>
> the god of blood.
Hrrmmmm There is much difference.. Khorne is the god of violently gotten
blood. (war) He collects skulls.. and such.. He's a war god who takes
blood and skulls as tribute
>
> - Matt
Tobias Reinold
<0xSG5.39471$F65.2...@nntp2.onemain.com>...>news:39EBE29D...@bastardsquad.org...
><Snip>
>> IT GETS BETTER AND BETTER! HEY, DID YOU KNOW THAN "CANE" IS ALSO A TYPE
>> OF WOOD MADE FROM BAMBOO???!!!!
>>
>the grain family and therefore a type of grass, JUST LIKE BAMBOO!
>
I luv KoRn to, they make cool music 2, right 4 me & my stoopid friends.
Tobias
Tobias Reinold
>Judus wrote:
>>
>> It could well be, but Caine is normally shown as being the first vampire
>> rather than a God of Blood and War in fantasy games.
>
>What's everyone's favourite colour?
Black and Naval Blue.
And tag it man!
:-)
Tobias
9703...@student.gla.ac.uk
"elgnomo" <elg...@QUITAESTOiname.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just that question, Khaine is Khorne? Don't know if that question has
> already a thread in this group, but please, answer it. For years the
same
> discution has threads in our mailing list, and we can't determine it.
>
> Sorry about my english, it isn't my primary language.
>
No.
Khaine is the God of Murder and Bloodshed.
Khorne is the God of Warfare and Blood.
Yes they are similar in some ways but very opposed in others. For
example, murder of inoccents, Khaine approves while Khorne will strike
down any champion of his who murders an unarmed opponent. One might say
that Knorne is about the power and importance of blood while for Khaine
the importance is in the act of the shedding of blood.
--
Alistir Hutton
Life is good and Life goes on
9703...@student.gla.ac.uk
Arjen Pilon
Tobias Reinold <Toxi...@gmx.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
8shl6i$ii7$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
<snip>
>
> I luv KoRn to, they make cool music 2, right 4 me & my stoopid friends.
Who misspell about 50% of the words they write (8 out of 15, good score),
sorry for the whining, I like KoRn too.
Arjen
>
> Tobias
>
>
Neal
P Bowles wrote:
> but murder is no part of the real Khaine's make-up.
Then why must the Eldar sacrifice an Aspect Warrior each time they want
their Avatar to go fight for them?
> Obviously, if Khaine and Khorne were
> the same being Khorne wouldn't have squabbled over him, and we also know that
> Khorne is a whole entity dwelling in the Warp and not a large number of pieces
> scattered throughout the mortal galaxy.
Either that or Khorne just fooled all the Eldar into believing that
stuff about the fragments of essence/killed by Slaanesh thing. Nice way
to add an entire race to your legion of worshippers.
Wolfgang Zeller
> with a sign on his foreskin, without being able
> to touched but with an eternal sin.
> (I hope I am right on this)
This is a great new sig... Thanks for the laugh, I
almost spit out my coffee...
bye
Wolfgang
Antti Tiihonen
Neal wrote:
>
> Tobias Reinold wrote:
>
> > >> Kain (=Cain/Caine/Khain/Kane/Cane) is the second son of Adam and Eve,
> > >> he murdered his elder brother Abel because he was jealous on him how
> > >> God liked Abel.
> > >>
> > >> So he is supposed to wander around on Earth with a sign on his
> > >> foreskin, without being able to touched but with an eternal sin.
> > >>
> > >> (I hope I am right on this)
> > >
> > >I always heard that the mark was placed on his fore_head_, though I'm
> > >not sure the Bible actually says that . . . big BIG difference between
> > >that and the foreskin! :-)
>
> The standard Bible doesn't say anything about what kind of mark Caine
> got. Some people don't even think it's a physical thing, others don't
> think it was hereditary, etc. There may be cabalistic writings on this
> but I'm not familiar with them.
The mark of Khorne!! =)
>
> In any case, Caine certainly got "touched" by someone, because the
> Hebrews later conquered his decendants, the Canaanites, when they took
> over Palestine (3000+ years ago or so).
>
-Antti Tiihonen
Kaine71
"Tobias Reinold" <Toxi...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:8shl7r$iav$06$1...@news.t-online.com...
> Big Al schrieb in Nachricht <39EBE27C...@bastardsquad.org>...
> >Judus wrote:
> >>
> >> It could well be, but Caine is normally shown as being the first
vampire
> >> rather than a God of Blood and War in fantasy games.
> >
> >What's everyone's favourite colour?
>
Ralf van den Broek
> In article <8sf3s5$scg$1...@diana.bcn.ttd.net>,
> "elgnomo" <elg...@QUITAESTOiname.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Just that question, Khaine is Khorne? Don't know if that question has
> > already a thread in this group, but please, answer it. For years the
> same
> > discution has threads in our mailing list, and we can't determine it.
> >
> > Sorry about my english, it isn't my primary language.
> >
>
> No.
>
> Khaine is the God of Murder and Bloodshed.
> Khorne is the God of Warfare and Blood.
>
> Yes they are similar in some ways but very opposed in others. For
> example, murder of inoccents, Khaine approves while Khorne will strike
> down any champion of his who murders an unarmed opponent. One might say
> that Knorne is about the power and importance of blood while for Khaine
> the importance is in the act of the shedding of blood.
Khaine and Khorne are different aspects of the same god, really. As you
note, they're both war gods, and very similar ones too, but they differ
in some aspects. There are too many similarities to simply state they're
different gods.
Big Al
>
> Big Al <webm...@bastardsquad.org> wrote in message
> news:39EBE29D...@bastardsquad.org...
> <Snip>
> > OF WOOD MADE FROM BAMBOO???!!!!
> >
> the grain family and therefore a type of grass, JUST LIKE BAMBOO!
IT'S A CONSPIRACY BY THE SHADOWY WORLD GRAIN MERCHANTS' SECRET
ORGANISATION
Big Al
>
> Kaos Lord schrieb in Nachricht
> <0xSG5.39471$F65.2...@nntp2.onemain.com>...
> >
> >news:39EBE29D...@bastardsquad.org...
> ><Snip>
> >> OF WOOD MADE FROM BAMBOO???!!!!
> >>
> >the grain family and therefore a type of grass, JUST LIKE BAMBOO!
> >
>
ROFL, thanks for that.
--
Big Al
Let's all be fucking retarded
http://www.bastardsquad.org
Email: webm...@bastardsquad.org
"I luv KoRn to, they make cool music 2,
right 4 me & my stoopid friends."
- Tobias Reinold r.g.m.w. 17/10
Big Al
>
> ok, so next time i will read the question
That would be really helpful, yes.
Big Al
> >
> >
> >Hang on a sec - I thought Khaine was the god of war, whereas Khorne is
> >the god of blood.
>
Not exactly - they're both two aspects of the same basic concept.
> Kaela Mesha Khaine, the
> Eldar god of war, is not the same entity and not part of Khorne
The same applies with those two in 40K.
Big Al
>
> In article <8sh5b8$6oa$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, dango...@my-deja.com writes:
>
> >> >Hang on a sec - I thought Khaine was the god of war, whereas Khorne
> >is
> >> >the god of blood.
> >>
> >Khaine, the
> >> Eldar god of war, is not the same entity and not part of Khorne -
> >though Khorne
> >> lays claim to his essence, he escaped into the mortal realm as the
> >Avatars and
> >> so is still separate from the Chaos God.
> >>
> >> Philip Bowles
> >
> >So are you agreeing or disagreeing with the opinion that they are two
> >seperate entities (Khorne and Khaine that is)?
>
> There are two entities - Khaine, the Eldar war god, and Khorne, who also
> contains the muderous aspect the Dark Elves worship, mistakenly thinking it to
Oh, I disagree. I think we need to consider the nature of the warp more
carefully here. Khaine and Khorne are "similar" entities because they
both reflect the same basic living instinct: the deeply-instilled need
to kill. And who hasn't felt that urge from time to time? As a result,
although they are "separate" in terms of deification etc., they are
essentially just different aspects of the same mindless warp-reflection
of human/Eldar emotion.
Kaos Lord
> Kaos Lord wrote:
> >
> > Big Al <webm...@bastardsquad.org> wrote in message
> > news:39EBE29D...@bastardsquad.org...
> > <Snip>
> > > IT GETS BETTER AND BETTER! HEY, DID YOU KNOW THAN "CANE" IS ALSO A
TYPE
> > > OF WOOD MADE FROM BAMBOO???!!!!
> > >
> > But wait there is more it seems the Khorne is pronounced CORN, which is
in
> > the grain family and therefore a type of grass, JUST LIKE BAMBOO!
>
> ORGANISATION
>
BTW Sugar is made from Cane in some areas, and is yet another type of grass.
So the next time you think about sprinkling SUGAR on your CORN flakes, just
go outside and munch some of you lawn, it's cheaper, and you are still
eating grass...
Big Al
>
>
> Khaine and Khorne are different aspects of the same god, really. As you
> note, they're both war gods
Neither is a "war" god as such. They are the deities which most closely
identify with the basic act of killing. Killing generally happens
suddenly, shockingly and on a large scale in warfare, hence their close
association with war and conflict.
Like all the Eldar gods, Khaine himself has many aspects, only some of
which pertain to war itself.
Big Al
>
> Purple
Hey, me too.
P Bowles
>P Bowles wrote:
>
>> but murder is no part of the real Khaine's make-up.
>
>Then why must the Eldar sacrifice an Aspect Warrior each time they want
>their Avatar to go fight for them?
To give him a body - the Young King (an Exarch rather than an Aspect Warrior)
is essentially possessed by the Avatar. He needs a mortal body just like a
daemon. Plenty of cultures have featured religious human sacrifice to gods
which have nothing to do with bloodshed, murder or whatever - Central American
rain gods, the fertility deities of the Druids etc.
Philip Bowles
Neal
Big Al wrote:
> Tobias Reinold wrote:
> > Kain (=Cain/Caine/Khain/Kane/Cane) is the second son of Adam and Eve, he
> > murdered his elder brother Abel because he was jealous on him how God liked
> > Abel.
> > So he is supposed to wander around on Earth with a sign on his foreskin,
> > without being able to touched but with an eternal sin.
> >
> > (I hope I am right on this)
> No, you're wrong. The above is from an exceptionally poor fictional
> work called "the Bible". If we're going to quote shitty books, let's
> have another argument about flying Daemon Princes on Juggernauts as per
> Codex: Chaos Space Marines.
It's not a correct summary of the Bible, fictional or otherwise. I'm
certainly not ready to describe all those letters in the New Testament
as "fiction". They may represent something you don't agree with, but
they're real letters written by real people. If you don't agree with
them, swell. It doesn't make them fiction.
-Neal
Big Al
The Bible may well include some genuine quotes from real authors at the
time, but mainly it's a fictional work - that is certainly it's
purpose. Besides, it's still full of shit.
Neal
> > It's not a correct summary of the Bible, fictional or otherwise. I'm
> > certainly not ready to describe all those letters in the New Testament
> > as "fiction". They may represent something you don't agree with, but
> > they're real letters written by real people. If you don't agree with
> > them, swell. It doesn't make them fiction.
>
> The Bible may well include some genuine quotes from real authors at the
> time, but mainly it's a fictional work - that is certainly it's
> purpose. Besides, it's still full of shit.
The fact that you keep referring to it as "the Bible", when it's a
collection of 66 documents that span about 2000 years of authorship,
lead me to believe that you haven't looked into it very seriously.
Whatever "purpose" those documents were compiled for, so VERY long ago,
is certainly lost today. And that's okay, too. But just saying "it's
full of shit" isn't a meaningful opinion.
-Neal
CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS
i agree , to say that the bible is full of shitlends me to believe you
havn't read much of it. you should consider jumping off the wagon. most of
the old testamentplainly details war after war and carnage and slaughter and
suffering. dont believe me , welp read it for yourself. just make sure none
of your friends are looking , who knows what they'd say.
Neal <Fal...@writeme.com> wrote in message
news:39ECF84C...@writeme.com...
CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS
BTW assuming your a 40k'er it might interest you to know that the book of
ezekiel is all about aliens landing on earth and interacting with its
inhabitants , you should consider checking it out.
CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS <CHAPLAINEX...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:8siu2i$1b60$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com...
kyllos
It seems to me that this whole topic is one of the areas GW intentionally left vague.
The similarities between the two suggest that they are aspects of the same entity/emotion
but nothing is specifically said on the matter. There is a hint in the v2 Codex
Impererialis
regarding the Craftworld of Dorhai which believes that all the other Craftworlds are
tainted
by Chaos and will have no contact with them.
Andrew Kyllo
Neal
CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS wrote:
> i agree , to say that the bible is full of shitlends me to believe you
> havn't read much of it. you should consider jumping off the wagon. most of
> the old testamentplainly details war after war and carnage and slaughter and
> suffering. dont believe me , welp read it for yourself. just make sure none
> of your friends are looking , who knows what they'd say.
Yeah, nothing like a giant pile of severed heads to make your enemies
think twice about fighting you. Or telling your enemies they can marry
your daughters if they get circumsized, and then killing them all when
they are recuperating and defenseless.
> BTW assuming your a 40k'er it might interest you to know that the book of
> ezekiel is all about aliens landing on earth and interacting with its
> inhabitants , you should consider checking it out.
The amazing part is that this is more or less true - the percentage of
"shit" can be determined by each reader to the level that satisfies him
or her.
-Neal
Blackheart, The CEO of Hardcore
>Big Al wrote:
>
>> > It's not a correct summary of the Bible, fictional or otherwise. I'm
>> > certainly not ready to describe all those letters in the New Testament
>> > as "fiction". They may represent something you don't agree with, but
>> > they're real letters written by real people. If you don't agree with
>> > them, swell. It doesn't make them fiction.
>>
>> The Bible may well include some genuine quotes from real authors at the
>> time, but mainly it's a fictional work - that is certainly it's
>> purpose. Besides, it's still full of shit.
>
>The fact that you keep referring to it as "the Bible", when it's a
>collection of 66 documents that span about 2000 years of authorship,
>lead me to believe that you haven't looked into it very seriously.
>Whatever "purpose" those documents were compiled for, so VERY long ago,
>is certainly lost today. And that's okay, too. But just saying "it's
>full of shit" isn't a meaningful opinion.
>
and you consider the pearly gobs of wisdom that come dribbling out
every time you open your mouth to be meaningful opinions?
Blackheart
-----------------------------------------
Remember to remove that NOSPAM if you want to reply via email (Sprange)
Rogue Trader Fanboy, Anti-Enigma Heretic and all around really cool guy.
Too damn hardcore for the RGMW Rogue Trader Cult and founder of the REAL Rogue Trader Cult.
(You know... the ones that actually play the game.)
Founder of the RGMW Black Guard and official RGMW Authority Figure
Official RGMM "Last Man Standing."
Disclaimer: The opinions stated above are mine. If you don't agree, or just generally don't like them... then it sucks to be you.
And I still get my 40% discount...
"I've felt the hate rise up in me...
Kneel down and clear the stone of leaves...
I wander out where you can't see...
Inside my shell I'll wait and bleed..."
Big Al
>
> i agree , to say that the bible is full of shitlends me to believe you
> havn't read much of it.
I read about half of it. Then I put it down because it was boring, and
full of shit. I don't enjoy reading tortuous pseudo-intellectualist
garbage that contradicts itself every other page.
Big Al
>
> Big Al wrote:
>
> > > It's not a correct summary of the Bible, fictional or otherwise. I'm
> > > certainly not ready to describe all those letters in the New Testament
> > > as "fiction". They may represent something you don't agree with, but
> > > they're real letters written by real people. If you don't agree with
> > > them, swell. It doesn't make them fiction.
> >
> > The Bible may well include some genuine quotes from real authors at the
> > time, but mainly it's a fictional work - that is certainly it's
> > purpose. Besides, it's still full of shit.
>
> The fact that you keep referring to it as "the Bible", when it's a
> collection of 66 documents that span about 2000 years of authorship,
> lead me to believe that you haven't looked into it very seriously.
I tried reading it. It makes no sense, it's contradictory and dull,
it's the textual equivalent of swimming through treacle. I realised I
was wasting my time and decided not to waste even more of it by
investigating the book further.
> Whatever "purpose" those documents were compiled for, so VERY long ago,
Not really very long ago. 1500 - 2000 years, with some older Hebrew
mythology.
> is certainly lost today. And that's okay, too. But just saying "it's
> full of shit" isn't a meaningful opinion.
Why not? It means I think it's full of shit.
CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS
im eagerly waiting for the deathwing to come take me away to serve the
emporer in one of his armies.news:39ED6379...@writeme.com...
>
>
> CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS wrote:
>
> > i agree , to say that the bible is full of shitlends me to believe you
CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS
everyones entitled to thier opinion. i think that what you read was way
above your level of interpritation. i dont preach love or all that itsy
bitsy christianshit that youll find at church , but read the words and
understand what they say. irregardless of what your nieghborhood
missionaries tell you. the OT is full of accounts of blood sacrifice and war
, period if you didnt catch that read it again. not only that but "ezekiel"
is one account of aliens landing with thier ships and interacting with
earths inhabitants. i feel sorry for you if you do not believe in aliens ,
war , sacrifice , suffering , and slavery. thats exactly what the bible
tells stories about. forget about the preconcieved fuff and the crap in the
new testament , get to the heart of the matter and understand that there are
bigger things out there than your quivering little mind.
EXTERMINATIS!news:39ED6FBC...@bastardsquad.org...
Lord Flashbart
berichtnieuws 8sk3b8$8rk0$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com...
>
<Razor Cut>
> there are
> bigger things out there than your quivering little mind.
> EXTERMINATIS!
I beleive there are also smaller things out there than your ego.
China, for example.
btw, stop shouting Latin words until you know how to use them.
-bart
JS Turner
>>>> Yes. Khaine is the Eldar name / Dark Elf name for Khorne.
>>>
>>>
>>>Hang on a sec - I thought Khaine was the god of war, whereas Khorne is
>>>the god of blood.
>>>
>>
>>Different peoples/races have different point of views.
>>Maybe you know this story about a Roman emperor (Konstantin?) who vowed to
>>the Christian god that if he'll help him win an important battle by divine
>>powers, he'll establish Christianity in the Roman Empire?
>>For this emperor, the Christian god, mostly associated with love and justice
>>(we know reality proves better) was a pure war god for this Roman leader,
>>who painted crosses on all Roman soldier's shields and prayed to God before
>>battle.
technically it was a "chi rho" not a cross. And although he converted the
entire Roman empire to Christian, he remained a follower of the old Roman gods.
>>And for all Americans who just *do* need a happy end:
>>Yes, he did win and Christianity was the official Roman religion.
>>Therfore the pope in rome, christianity in whole Europe and eventually in
>>America. Yay.
>>
>>Tobias
>>
Neal
> > The fact that you keep referring to it as "the Bible", when it's a
> > collection of 66 documents that span about 2000 years of authorship,
> > lead me to believe that you haven't looked into it very seriously.
>
> I tried reading it. It makes no sense, it's contradictory and dull,
> it's the textual equivalent of swimming through treacle. I realised I
> was wasting my time and decided not to waste even more of it by
> investigating the book further.
Everyone reads for different purposes - sometimes to inform, sometimes
to entertain. I will wholeheartedly agree that all those "joe begat
john, who begat bob, who begat billy, who begat ..." is certainly boring.
But the battle stories about cutting off everyone's head and putting it
in a big pile (as mentioned) or the circumsicion trick, or Job getting
baited by his friends, etc. Those are pretty entertaining. I have no
idea what you read for fun, though.
And yeah, a lot of the philosophy in those letters to the Corinthians or
whomever is pretty dull, too. But it's just a letter from one guy to
some others concering a religion you don't like. No big surprise, I guess.
> > Whatever "purpose" those documents were compiled for, so VERY long ago,
>
> Not really very long ago. 1500 - 2000 years, with some older Hebrew
> mythology.
The book of Job is supposed to be the oldest (actually one of the oldest
"stories" on record in any culture) and it's as much as 4000 years old.
The newest one is the popular Revelations, which is probably about 1900
years old. The Protestant version of "the Bible" was put together by
King James of England (as I am sure you knew) and was purportedly
supposed to translate all those Latin Vulgates into English so everyone
could read the thing. Some would say he had it slanted to the evil
purpose of control through religion, others to let people bypass the
Priests and read it for themselves. It's kind of an interesting bit of
history to look into, believe it or not.
> > is certainly lost today. And that's okay, too. But just saying "it's
> > full of shit" isn't a meaningful opinion.
> Why not? It means I think it's full of shit.
Which part? You're talking about thousands and thousands of words here,
all about different things, some stories, some philosophy, etc. If you
don't believe in the miracles or the supernatural parts, that's cool. I
don't worship Zeus, but a good translation of the Illiad or the Odyssey
(sp?) is a pretty good read.
There is some historical value in all the plotting and politicing of the
Jewish kings in pre-Roman times. Scholars even poo-pooed some of the
empires (Hittite comes to mind) mentioned in the "older Hebrew
mythology" - until they dug up the ruins. All the cultures of the world
have stories of someone like Noah being caught in a big flood - and
that's kind of an interesting story, too.
As for the contradictions, you can decide what standard you want to hold
the writers to. It's obvious that only Matthew and John followed Jesus
around while he was alive, so the Gospels of Mark and Luke came from
second-hand (or worse) information. Scholars who study this stuff think
that Matthew, Mark, and Luke all wrote from the same, now missing,
document (called the "Q document"). They thought they dug up the Q
document in the Dead Sea Scrolls for a while, but it didn't turn out to
be a good match.
So yeah, those contradictions exist, but like a description of a traffic
accident given by several different people, you can expect some
variation from person to person. It doesn't mean there was no traffic
accident, it just means that different people remembered the details
differently. You can take that for what it's worth.
There are lots of boring, ancient documents out there, but to just say,
"They're full of shit," doesn't indicate that I have spent much time
with them. But if you're just not interested, you're just not
interested. I think it's pretty interesting to read a 2000 year history
of an ancient culture, even if you don't buy into everything they
recorded. And unlike a novel, you can skip the boring parts and still
get some good reading in.
I don't want to bore people or start a religion flame war, so I'll let
it go at that.
-Neal
RT Maitreya
> Hey, me too.
And me. I prefer a solid rich blue and
a royal purple. I painted my dorm room
in college light to dark purple, and all
of my furniture dark to light purple in
other vertical direction. It made you
woozy just to walk in. . .
RTM
Insane Ranter
Joraal
>Suggesting that 2,000 years of christianity in Europe is a good
>thing
Otherwise we all in Europe + USA maybe would be islamists. I'm happy
being a protestant.
>is like suggesting it would have been cool if Hitler had
>established his Thousand Year Reich after all.
??? Maybe Hitler was just another reincarnation of Khorne? ;-)
Cya!
Joraal
MCV Fenderson
: Tobias Reinold wrote:
:> >> Kain (=Cain/Caine/Khain/Kane/Cane) is the second son of Adam and Eve,
:> >> he murdered his elder brother Abel because he was jealous on him how
:> >> God liked Abel.
:> >>
:> >> So he is supposed to wander around on Earth with a sign on his
:> >> foreskin, without being able to touched but with an eternal sin.
:> >>
:> >> (I hope I am right on this)
:> >
:> >I always heard that the mark was placed on his fore_head_, though I'm
:> >not sure the Bible actually says that . . . big BIG difference between
:> >that and the foreskin! :-)
: The standard Bible doesn't say anything about what kind of mark Caine
: got.
It does say, however, that he gave the sign or mark so that people
would NOT kill him. Cain was afraid people would kill him.
: Some people don't even think it's a physical thing, others don't
: think it was hereditary, etc.
In the Dutch bible, it sounds more like it might be some one-time
apparition or vision or something, but it could just as well be
some visible mark on him. It's pretty vague.
The bible does say, however, that Cain's great-great-grandson Lamech
said he killed somebody for his wound, for Cain will be avenged 7
times, but Lamech will be avenged 77 times. Not a clue what that
means, but it sounds like Lamech took his ancestor's example a bit
too seriously. I got the impression that Cain was genuinly sorry
for his sin.
: In any case, Caine certainly got "touched" by someone, because the
: Hebrews later conquered his decendants, the Canaanites, when they took
: over Palestine (3000+ years ago or so).
Are you sure they are supposed to be Cain's descendants, except for
the likelihood that by that time, probably everybody in that area was
somehow descended from everybody?
The bible does say about Lamech's sons (Cain's great-great-great-
grandsons) that Jabal would be the father of all people who live
in tents with the herd, that Jubal would be the father of all
musicians, and that Tubal-Kain would be the father of all smiths.
Note that all of this in liberally translated from a Dutch bible,
so names are likely to be different in your version.
mcv.
Neal
MCV Fenderson wrote:
> : In any case, Caine certainly got "touched" by someone, because the
> : Hebrews later conquered his decendants, the Canaanites, when they took
> : over Palestine (3000+ years ago or so).
>
> Are you sure they are supposed to be Cain's descendants, except for
> the likelihood that by that time, probably everybody in that area was
> somehow descended from everybody?
Well, pretty sure. I know Caine went to live in the Land of Nod after he
killed his brother. Not sure where else the name of the Land of Caanan
would have come from. I defer to anyone who knows Hebrew ...
Great information, I love reading your posts.
-Neal
Neal
> and you consider the pearly gobs of wisdom that come dribbling out
> every time you open your mouth to be meaningful opinions?
Your pathetic attempts at witty reparte begin to tire me. At least make
some salient points or say something funny.
-Neal
Tumart
MCV Fenderson wrote:
>
> CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS <CHAPLAINEX...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> : not only that but "ezekiel"
> : is one account of aliens landing with thier ships and interacting with
> : earths inhabitants.
>
> Never noticed that. Ezekiel was never one of my favourite books,
> but this puts it into a new perspective. Ever read Revelations
> with the Exxon Valdez and similar big disasters in mind? Scary.
I think he's getting that bit from Chariot of the Gods. That was a
piece of tripe put out by Erich von Daniken a ways back---mid 70's, I
think---purporting to be proof that humanity was seeded by aliens long
ago. No serious biblical or ancient scholar believes that Ezekiel is
documentary evidence of alien visitation... it's a confusing vision,
true, but from what little I've read consistent with ancient Hebrew
symbolism.
--
If you can walk on water, you are no better than a blade of grass.
If you can rise up in the air, you are no better than a fly.
Conquer your heart if you want to become somebody.
-Ansari
Neal
> Yeesh, you're talking about Genesis like it was the literal truth . . .
> it's kinda creeping me out.
If I said, "then the some of the Elves went back to Valinor, and the
rest took up residence in the a few places in Middle Earth" would it be
any less creepy? I'm not asking you to believe in anything. It can still
be interesting to discuss.
> "'Creation science' has not entered the curriculum for a reason so
> simple and so basic that we often forget to mention it: because it is
> false, and because good teachers understand exactly why it is false.
> What could be more destructive of that most fragile yet most precious
> commodity in our entire intellectual heritage -- good teaching -- than
> a bill forcing honorable teachers to sully their sacred trust by
> granting equal treatment to a doctrine not only known to be false, but
> calculated to undermine any general understanding of science as an
> enterprise?"
> -- Stephen Jay Gould
>
> (Not a Gould fan in general, but I certainly agree with this quote!)
An enemy of an enemy is my friend? He won't even debate Creationists any
more. Of course, they have their own fallacies, but he got tired of
having *his* exposed to the public ...
MCV Fenderson
: everyones entitled to thier opinion. i think that what you read was way
: above your level of interpritation. i dont preach love or all that itsy
: bitsy christianshit that youll find at church , but read the words and
: understand what they say. irregardless of what your nieghborhood
: missionaries tell you. the OT is full of accounts of blood sacrifice and war
: , period if you didnt catch that read it again.
Totally true, but for some reason, most christians actually consider
the words of Jesus, in the NT, to be the most important bit of the
bible. And they are not exactly about blood and war.
: not only that but "ezekiel"
: is one account of aliens landing with thier ships and interacting with
: earths inhabitants.
Never noticed that. Ezekiel was never one of my favourite books,
but this puts it into a new perspective. Ever read Revelations
with the Exxon Valdez and similar big disasters in mind? Scary.
: forget about the preconcieved fuff and the crap in the
: new testament , get to the heart of the matter and understand that there are
: bigger things out there than your quivering little mind.
I still think that being nice to people is slightly more relevant
to our lives than aliens in a spaceship.
mcv.
MCV Fenderson
: Big Al schrieb in Nachricht <39EBE27C...@bastardsquad.org>...
:>
:>What's everyone's favourite colour?
: Black and Naval Blue.
Black, actually. And there are several greens I like. And one
particular kind of lilac or purple that I can never find.
mcv.
MCV Fenderson
: Khaine is the God of Murder and Bloodshed.
: Khorne is the God of Warfare and Blood.
: Yes they are similar in some ways but very opposed in others. For
: example, murder of inoccents, Khaine approves while Khorne will strike
: down any champion of his who murders an unarmed opponent.
You sure about that? So if you just throw down your weapons, you're
safe from Khorne? I've always considered him very capable of
slaughtering villages/planets wholesale (depending on your setting).
mcv.
Aristeia
"Neal" Fal...@writeme.com wrote:
Yeesh, you're talking about Genesis like it was the literal truth . . .
it's kinda creeping me out.
Aristeia
"'Creation science' has not entered the curriculum for a reason so
simple and so basic that we often forget to mention it: because it is
false, and because good teachers understand exactly why it is false.
What could be more destructive of that most fragile yet most precious
commodity in our entire intellectual heritage -- good teaching -- than
a bill forcing honorable teachers to sully their sacred trust by
granting equal treatment to a doctrine not only known to be false, but
calculated to undermine any general understanding of science as an
enterprise?"
-- Stephen Jay Gould
(Not a Gould fan in general, but I certainly agree with this quote!)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Aristeia
Jor...@bigfoot.com (Joraal) wrote:
> Hi!
>
> >Suggesting that 2,000 years of christianity in Europe is a good
> >thing
>
> Otherwise we all in Europe + USA maybe would be islamists. I'm happy
> being a protestant.
I guess it's just too much to hope for that everyone would've just woken
up one morning and reject all this religious and superstitious crap
altogether . . . :-)
Aristeia
Kaine71
Just thought I would point that out.
"MCV Fenderson" <mc...@keg.cs.vu.nl> wrote in message
news:8sleep$c...@cs.vu.nl...
CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS
actually i never read that book , or even heard of that man wtf? i read
ezekiel and this was my interpretation , secondly i dont give a shit what
biblical scholars say. for one thing most of them are bogged down in the
turn your cheek love your nieghbor crap that was written in the new
testament by the romans. i invite anyone to read ezekiel and form thier own
conclusions , but your petty attempts to discredit me are weak and have been
in vain.
Tumart <madm...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:39EE4D56...@mail.utexas.edu...
> > : is one account of aliens landing with thier ships and interacting with
> > : earths inhabitants.
> >
> > Never noticed that. Ezekiel was never one of my favourite books,
> > but this puts it into a new perspective. Ever read Revelations
> > with the Exxon Valdez and similar big disasters in mind? Scary.
>
Tumart
CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS wrote:
>
> actually i never read that book , or even heard of that man wtf? i read
> ezekiel and this was my interpretation , secondly i dont give a shit what
> biblical scholars say. for one thing most of them are bogged down in the
> turn your cheek love your nieghbor crap that was written in the new
> testament by the romans. i invite anyone to read ezekiel and form thier own
> conclusions , but your petty attempts to discredit me are weak and have been
> in vain.
Calm yourself. My point is that your interpretation, wherever you got
it from, is unusual. Furthermore, the only place I've seen it is in von
Daniken and works drawing from his book. Regardless, if you think that
Ezekiel is about aliens, go with it. It doesn't matter to me. I have no
interest in "discrediting" you as I neither know you nor am I
particularly keen on propounding a biblical exegesis of my own. The
Bible fascinates me, but it does not compel my belief.
If you want to discuss your views on Ezekiel further, and can do so
civilly, go ahead. I'm curious about your interpretation, to be honest.
CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS
cool , i dont make a habit of preaching any views or interpritations of
mine. however , i thought maybe ezekial would interest this group because of
its very nature.news:39EEBECE...@mail.utexas.edu...
Big Al
>
> everyones entitled to thier opinion. i think that what you read was way
> above your level of interpritation.
Yeah, suuure. Whereas someone called CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS who can't
even *spell* "interpretation" is obviously whole intellectual leagues
ahead of me. Right.
> i dont preach love or all that itsy
> bitsy christianshit that youll find at church , but read the words and
> understand what they say. irregardless of what your nieghborhood
> missionaries tell you.
There aren't any "missionaries" in my neighbourhood. Luckily for us,
xianity is pretty much dead on its feet in the UK. As for understanding
what the Bible says, if you're claiming to be capable of doing that when
no-one else has been able to for 2000 years, better contact the Pope and
the Archbishop and tell them there's no need for any divisions in the
xian church at all, since you have ALL the answers.
> the OT is full of accounts of blood sacrifice and war
> , period if you didnt catch that read it again. not only that but "ezekiel"
> is one account of aliens landing with thier ships and interacting with
> earths inhabitants.
Blah. And you knew the author personally, did you? You happen to be
absolutely certain of what the book of Ezekiel really means, right? You
really must be the greatest intuitive genius to grace the planet in
centuries.
> i feel sorry for you if you do not believe in aliens ,
> war , sacrifice , suffering , and slavery. thats exactly what the bible
> tells stories about.
And I can read far better stories about the same things from hundreds of
*decent* authors.
> forget about the preconcieved fuff and the crap in the
> new testament , get to the heart of the matter and understand that there are
> bigger things out there than your quivering little mind.
You think the Bible is a "greater thing" than my mind? Try pulling the
other one, it goes "Baaaaa, give me a form to sign".
CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS
it must be humiliating for you to constantly post such idiotic responses to
the things others have posted. you sound more like sheep to me than anything
else , funny youd probably say the same about me , lol. id say stick with
being the "cool kid" because your analysis of peoples posts only serve to
prove your idiotic state of mind.news:39EEC777...@bastardsquad.org...
Tobias Reinold
>CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS wrote:
>>
>> everyones entitled to thier opinion. i think that what you read was way
>> above your level of interpritation.
>
>Yeah, suuure. Whereas someone called CHAPLAINEXTERMINATIS who can't
>even *spell* "interpretation" is obviously whole intellectual leagues
>ahead of me. Right.
I might add that it is a sure sign of diseased mind to quote UNDER what you
write, what C-Exterminatis (gay name, by the way) practices.
Good luck,
Tobias
Big Al
>
> it must be humiliating for you to constantly post such idiotic responses to
> the things others have posted. you sound more like sheep to me than anything
> else , funny youd probably say the same about me , lol. id say stick with
> being the "cool kid" because your analysis of peoples posts only serve to
> prove your idiotic state of mind.
I think in tard-spiel that means something along the lines of "I have no
salient response and am a miserable loser. Please kill me now"
Tobias Reinold
>"I luv KoRn to, they make cool music 2,
>right 4 me & my stoopid friends."
>- Tobias Reinold r.g.m.w. 17/10
*blush*
oooh, I hope you know this wasn't meant seriously :-)
Tobias