[40K] Codex Space Marine Update Time!
Tommy G
Marines with 1 W should surely get cheaper wargear, as per Space Wolves and
and now Chaos Marines.
And while I'm at it...why does the Chaos Predator have better side armour
than Imperial Predators?
Maka
> Marines with 1 W should surely get cheaper wargear, as per Space Wolves and
> and now Chaos Marines.
assault based force. Saving 5-10 points on wargear is nice, but I'd
give it up for assault terminators, a Crusaider and some land
speeders.
In keeping with the favored theme, I think any Imperial Marine squad
of 10 should get a free Vet upgrade, and free vets should get cheaper
wargear. On the other hand, I think Blood Angels, Black Templar, and
Space Wolves should get no such bonus.
> And while I'm at it...why does the Chaos Predator have better side armour
> than Imperial Predators?
Because the extra point means nothing when your land speeder hits it
at close range with its multi-melta? Typo? If it makes you feel any
better, I'd field a predator with Daemonic Possession, Mutated Hull
and the Daemon Parasite. Sure it is expensive, but an armour 14/13/11
Predator with Twin-Las/Las that ignores shake and stun and repairs it
self is a good solid fire base. Sadly it is much better than the
Shitty Land Raider, and cheaper.
-Maka
Mikael
received a subspace message from this:
[X] bloke [] bint []troll [] thing [] d00d
[] DJ [] moron [] NARP [] other,
"Tommy G <tomm...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com>" of the planet
rec.games.miniatures.warhammer:
>Am I alone in thinking Codex:Space Marine needs an update?
>Marines with 1 W should surely get cheaper wargear, as per Space Wolves and
>and now Chaos Marines.
In theory, I agree, but if GW starts releasing completely revised
updates (i.e. ones that they won't also publish as a .pdf) of all the
Codices, I'm through with this crap.
>And while I'm at it...why does the Chaos Predator have better side armour
>than Imperial Predators?
Because it's evil, and we all know that 3\/i1 = l33+.
Mikael
--
Go without God
Helicon 1
news:<Xns92BED66C0ECDAt...@203.194.27.1>...
> And while I'm at it...why does the Chaos Predator have better side armour
> than Imperial Predators?
Because the 40K Dev Team can't type, or find proofreaders. Its another
typo, I believe.
Tim
Tommy G
news:786bada8.02110...@posting.google.com:
>> Am I alone in thinking Codex:Space Marine needs an update?
>> Marines with 1 W should surely get cheaper wargear, as per Space
>> Wolves and and now Chaos Marines.
> GW is giving a bonus to Chaos Players who use a very shooty list as an
> assault based force. Saving 5-10 points on wargear is nice, but I'd
> give it up for assault terminators, a Crusaider and some land
> speeders.
So true. Landspeeders have helped me win many a game. Thinking about
getting a Crusader. Seems like an excellent assault unit delivery vehicle.
> In keeping with the favored theme, I think any Imperial Marine squad
> of 10 should get a free Vet upgrade, and free vets should get cheaper
> wargear. On the other hand, I think Blood Angels, Black Templar, and
> Space Wolves should get no such bonus.
That sounds pretty good to me. Never thought of the free upgrade before...
but hey if it works for chaos! Good way to encourage players to follow the
fluff and field 10 man marine squads.
> I'd field a predator with Daemonic Possession, Mutated Hull
> and the Daemon Parasite. Sure it is expensive, but an armour 14/13/11
> Predator with Twin-Las/Las that ignores shake and stun and repairs it
> self is a good solid fire base. Sadly it is much better than the
> Shitty Land Raider, and cheaper.
[shudder] hope I don't face one of these any time soon....
Totally agree though, Land Raider is shite. My regular opponent, a Space
Wolves player, constantly fields one. It almost always does Sweet FA and
uses up a huge slab of his points that would be better spent on some Blood
Claws or Grey Hunters in Rhinos. Suits me fine though, I don't mind winning
just about every game.
Sgáth
<Xns92C09D2285F52t...@203.194.27.1> scrolls dated to Fri,
08 Nov 2002 04:29:45 GMT:
:-> M_St...@hotmail.com (Maka) wrote in
:-> news:786bada8.02110...@posting.google.com:
:->
:-> >> Am I alone in thinking Codex:Space Marine needs an update?
:-> >> Marines with 1 W should surely get cheaper wargear, as per Space
:-> >> Wolves and and now Chaos Marines.
:-> > GW is giving a bonus to Chaos Players who use a very shooty list as an
:-> > assault based force. Saving 5-10 points on wargear is nice, but I'd
:-> > give it up for assault terminators, a Crusaider and some land
:-> > speeders.
:->
:-> So true. Landspeeders have helped me win many a game. Thinking about
:-> getting a Crusader. Seems like an excellent assault unit delivery vehicle.
:->
:-> > In keeping with the favored theme, I think any Imperial Marine squad
:-> > of 10 should get a free Vet upgrade, and free vets should get cheaper
:-> > wargear. On the other hand, I think Blood Angels, Black Templar, and
:-> > Space Wolves should get no such bonus.
:->
:-> That sounds pretty good to me. Never thought of the free upgrade before...
:-> but hey if it works for chaos! Good way to encourage players to follow the
:-> fluff and field 10 man marine squads.
:->
:-> > I'd field a predator with Daemonic Possession, Mutated Hull
:-> > and the Daemon Parasite. Sure it is expensive, but an armour 14/13/11
:-> > Predator with Twin-Las/Las that ignores shake and stun and repairs it
:-> > self is a good solid fire base. Sadly it is much better than the
:-> > Shitty Land Raider, and cheaper.
:->
:-> [shudder] hope I don't face one of these any time soon....
:-> Totally agree though, Land Raider is shite. My regular opponent, a Space
:-> Wolves player, constantly fields one. It almost always does Sweet FA and
:-> uses up a huge slab of his points that would be better spent on some Blood
:-> Claws or Grey Hunters in Rhinos. Suits me fine though, I don't mind winning
:-> just about every game.
:->
Crusaders are excellent rolling thunder and support for a pack of 15
Blood claws, The other Land Raider I usually field is the Prometheus
back up by a Exterminator... all this usually fits into a 2000 point
army (3 x 10 Grey Hunter Sqds, 1 x 15 Bloodclaws (or 14 BCs with a Rune
Priest), 1 Ven Dread, 2 WG battle leaders, 2 Rhinos and a few other bits
and bobs).
--
Freedom is actually a bigger game than power.
Power is about what you can control.
Freedom is about what you can unleash.
- Harriet Rubin
Mikael
received a subspace message from this:
[X] bloke [] bint []troll [] thing [] d00d
[] DJ [] moron [] NARP [] other,
rec.games.miniatures.warhammer:
>Crusaders are excellent rolling thunder and support for a pack of 15
>Blood claws, The other Land Raider I usually field is the Prometheus
What the heck is a Land Raider Prometheus, anyway? Where does one find
the rules for it?
>back up by a Exterminator... all this usually fits into a 2000 point
>army (3 x 10 Grey Hunter Sqds, 1 x 15 Bloodclaws (or 14 BCs with a Rune
>Priest), 1 Ven Dread, 2 WG battle leaders, 2 Rhinos and a few other bits
>and bobs).
This sounds amazingly sweet. I've just started converting some fairly
w00+ models for my homebrew Chapter, which I'll run on SW rules. I'm
looking to fit something fairly similar into my army as well.
Sgáth
@news.inet.fi> scrolls dated to Fri, 08 Nov 2002 20:23:49 GMT:
:-> Captain's log, Stardate: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 17:35:01 -0000.We have
:-> received a subspace message from this:
:-> [X] bloke [] bint []troll [] thing [] d00d
:-> [] DJ [] moron [] NARP [] other,
:-> "Sgáth <celtic...@notmail.com>" of the planet
:-> rec.games.miniatures.warhammer:
:->
:-> >Crusaders are excellent rolling thunder and support for a pack of 15
:-> >Blood claws, The other Land Raider I usually field is the Prometheus
:->
:-> What the heck is a Land Raider Prometheus, anyway? Where does one find
:-> the rules for it?
:->
:-> >back up by a Exterminator... all this usually fits into a 2000 point
:-> >army (3 x 10 Grey Hunter Sqds, 1 x 15 Bloodclaws (or 14 BCs with a Rune
:-> >Priest), 1 Ven Dread, 2 WG battle leaders, 2 Rhinos and a few other bits
:-> >and bobs).
:->
:-> This sounds amazingly sweet. I've just started converting some fairly
:-> w00+ models for my homebrew Chapter, which I'll run on SW rules. I'm
:-> looking to fit something fairly similar into my army as well.
:->
:-> Mikael
:-> --
:-> Go without God
:->
Prometheus is a Land Raider fitted out with 4 twin-linked heavy bolters
(yes you read that right 12 shots re-rolling misses @ str5 ap4) and the
ability to re-roll one reserve roll a turn. It's a command tank only for
the HQ unit and 1 per army. it cost with out looking it up I think 270
points!!
It's now an official vehicle for tournament play as it's in Imperial
armour upgrades.
With the above configuration I have played something like 30 2000 point
games and yet to lose, I come close but always managed to pull a draw.
when you can lay down something like 24 heavy bolter shots, 2 Auto-
Cannon shots, Plasma cannon fire from the Dread, and all the GH squads
equiped with Meltas/Plasma pistols and HQ with Melta bombs it's a tough
army to beat. I have taken on Deathwing terminator armies, Steel legion
armies and Tank Regiments. The hardest army I have found to beat with
this army is Orks, the easiest is most Eldar Armies (Exception of the
Seer Council which can be iffy to beat depends on the dice rolls). I
also sometimes take Attack bikes or possibly land speeders (mainly for
the dual weapon mounts for troop/tank hunting).
--
Who Remembers the Fallen when the tears are long dried?
Mikael
received a subspace message from this:
>The venerable Mikael quoted the following <3dcc1de6.135976858
>@news.inet.fi> scrolls dated to Fri, 08 Nov 2002 20:23:49 GMT:
>
>:-> "Sgáth <celtic...@notmail.com>" of the planet
>:-> rec.games.miniatures.warhammer:
>:->
>:-> >Crusaders are excellent rolling thunder and support for a pack of 15
>:-> >Blood claws, The other Land Raider I usually field is the Prometheus
>:->
>:-> What the heck is a Land Raider Prometheus, anyway? Where does one find
>:-> the rules for it?
>:->
>:-> >back up by a Exterminator... all this usually fits into a 2000 point
>:-> >army (3 x 10 Grey Hunter Sqds, 1 x 15 Bloodclaws (or 14 BCs with a Rune
>:-> >Priest), 1 Ven Dread, 2 WG battle leaders, 2 Rhinos and a few other bits
>:-> >and bobs).
>:->
>:-> This sounds amazingly sweet. I've just started converting some fairly
>:-> w00+ models for my homebrew Chapter, which I'll run on SW rules. I'm
>:-> looking to fit something fairly similar into my army as well.
>
>Prometheus is a Land Raider fitted out with 4 twin-linked heavy bolters
>(yes you read that right 12 shots re-rolling misses @ str5 ap4) and the
>ability to re-roll one reserve roll a turn. It's a command tank only for
>the HQ unit and 1 per army. it cost with out looking it up I think 270
>points!!
Forgive the shouting to follow. SWEET!!!
>It's now an official vehicle for tournament play as it's in Imperial
>armour upgrades.
Crikey, I'm getting one. Does it carry the same as a regular LR (i.e.
10 SM / 5 Termie)? And is is a HS choice or a transport option for the
HQ?
>With the above configuration I have played something like 30 2000 point
>games and yet to lose, I come close but always managed to pull a draw.
Impressive. What was the quality of your opponents?
>when you can lay down something like 24 heavy bolter shots, 2 Auto-
>Cannon shots, Plasma cannon fire from the Dread, and all the GH squads
>equiped with Meltas/Plasma pistols and HQ with Melta bombs it's a tough
>army to beat.
That kicks ass, that does. I might plagiarise you a bit if you don't
overly mind.
> I have taken on Deathwing terminator armies, Steel legion
>armies and Tank Regiments.
How did you deal with the armor? I'd think Leman Russes would be
problematic.
> The hardest army I have found to beat with
>this army is Orks,
How's that? This sounds like an army that would simply scythe through
most Ork hordes.
> the easiest is most Eldar Armies (Exception of the
>Seer Council which can be iffy to beat depends on the dice rolls). I
>also sometimes take Attack bikes or possibly land speeders (mainly for
>the dual weapon mounts for troop/tank hunting).
All in all, this sounds very impressive.
Sgáth
@news.inet.fi> scrolls dated to Fri, 08 Nov 2002 20:54:32 GMT:
:-> Captain's log, Stardate: Fri, 8 Nov 2002 20:37:14 -0000.We have
:-> received a subspace message from this:
:-> [X] bloke [] bint []troll [] thing [] d00d
:-> [] DJ [] moron [] NARP [] other,
:-> "Sgáth <celtic...@notmail.com>" of the planet
:-> rec.games.miniatures.warhammer:
:->
:-> >The venerable Mikael quoted the following <3dcc1de6.135976858
:-> >@news.inet.fi> scrolls dated to Fri, 08 Nov 2002 20:23:49 GMT:
:-> >
:-> >:-> "Sgáth <celtic...@notmail.com>" of the planet
:-> >:-> rec.games.miniatures.warhammer:
:-> >:->
:-> >:-> >Crusaders are excellent rolling thunder and support for a pack of 15
:-> >:-> >Blood claws, The other Land Raider I usually field is the Prometheus
:-> >:->
:-> >:-> What the heck is a Land Raider Prometheus, anyway? Where does one find
:-> >:-> the rules for it?
:-> >:->
:-> >:-> >back up by a Exterminator... all this usually fits into a 2000 point
:-> >:-> >army (3 x 10 Grey Hunter Sqds, 1 x 15 Bloodclaws (or 14 BCs with a Rune
:-> >:-> >Priest), 1 Ven Dread, 2 WG battle leaders, 2 Rhinos and a few other bits
:-> >:-> >and bobs).
:-> >:->
:-> >:-> This sounds amazingly sweet. I've just started converting some fairly
:-> >:-> w00+ models for my homebrew Chapter, which I'll run on SW rules. I'm
:-> >:-> looking to fit something fairly similar into my army as well.
:-> >
:-> >Prometheus is a Land Raider fitted out with 4 twin-linked heavy bolters
:-> >(yes you read that right 12 shots re-rolling misses @ str5 ap4) and the
:-> >ability to re-roll one reserve roll a turn. It's a command tank only for
:-> >the HQ unit and 1 per army. it cost with out looking it up I think 270
:-> >points!!
:->
:-> Forgive the shouting to follow. SWEET!!!
:->
:-> >It's now an official vehicle for tournament play as it's in Imperial
:-> >armour upgrades.
:->
:-> Crikey, I'm getting one. Does it carry the same as a regular LR (i.e.
:-> 10 SM / 5 Termie)? And is is a HS choice or a transport option for the
:-> HQ?
:->
:-> >With the above configuration I have played something like 30 2000 point
:-> >games and yet to lose, I come close but always managed to pull a draw.
:->
:-> Impressive. What was the quality of your opponents?
:->
:-> >when you can lay down something like 24 heavy bolter shots, 2 Auto-
:-> >Cannon shots, Plasma cannon fire from the Dread, and all the GH squads
I have used it as a Transport for HQ, as that is what I was advised by
the Rule Boyz I have not seen the entry for Imperial Armour. The
Prometheus is a standard Land Raider so can carry 10M or 5T as normal.
The quality of the opponents are of above average ability (to my
standard, I have only lost a few games in my local workshop). Most adult
in nature and long term veteran who know how to use their armies to the
best effect, in fact I taught some of them ;o)
Space Wolves are ideal for taking out tanks. Most of the time the
opponent will try to take out your Land Raiders. My tactics are as
follows. The mission was take and hold, the points was 2500. The IG play
held the central position with 3 Leman Russ Battle tanks supported by a
couple of Chimeras with Storm Troopers. I can't remember the exact
configuration of his army as it was last year.
My basic tactic was to charge the 2 Land Raiders with the Rhino's in
front to give the hull down the first turn the Rhino's fired their
smokes preventing targetting of the Land Raiders behind (house rule as
such if a vehicle in front of another fires smokes it blocks a 45d arc
in front of it) 3 attack bikes armed with multi-melta went down one
flank and 2 land speeders armed with Multi-meltas down the other flank
hugging cover.
Second turn was basically was moving what had survived the shelling (one
Rhino lost!) Land Raiders to the fore this time covering the Rhinos, the
reserves should come on (2 anti-tank scouts with WGBL with melta bombs
<weg>) hoping that they take down the tanks in both shooting and hth.
third turn is pure hand to hand annihilation, basically moping up whats
left of the vehicles with melta guns, plasma pistols and failing that
HTH with power fists and melta bombs. It was at this point the opponent
conceeded, he had nothing on the table that could stop a Crusader laying
covering fire combined with the Prometheus. the bikes and the Speeders
where busy laying sniping fire at any vehicles damaged or undamaged (The
3 attack bikes took out a sentinel sqdn in one turn of shooting!).
All in all my casualties was the following: 1 5 man sqd scouts wiped
out, 2 dead from the other. 2 Rhinos destroyed, other immobilised,
Crusader lost it's multi-melta and 1 hurricane bolter set, 15 GH dead
and 7 BC plus Rune priest dead. 1 Land speeder lost it's weapon and 2
attack bikes went down to lasguns! (embarressing moment going down to
torchlights!)
To finish off I have a 4000 point Iron Wolf army in which *nothing*
moves slower than 12 inches! Everthing is wheeled, tracked or has AG...
Ric Craven
> >Prometheus is a Land Raider fitted out with 4 twin-linked heavy bolters
> >(yes you read that right 12 shots re-rolling misses @ str5 ap4) and the
> >ability to re-roll one reserve roll a turn. It's a command tank only for
> >the HQ unit and 1 per army. it cost with out looking it up I think 270
> >points!!
>
> Forgive the shouting to follow. SWEET!!!
>
> >It's now an official vehicle for tournament play as it's in Imperial
> >armour upgrades.
>
<snip>
Here is a link to the forgeworld site for the upgrade kit for the
landraider;
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/QUATERMASTERS_STORE_SPACE_MARINE_VEHICL
ES_30.html
Ric
Mikael
received a subspace message from this:
>
>I have used it as a Transport for HQ, as that is what I was advised by
>the Rule Boyz I have not seen the entry for Imperial Armour.
Here's hoping it doesn't take up a Heavy Support choice. Imperial
Armor lists are kosher in games, aren't they? I.e. the stuff in there
isn't opponent's permission only?
> The
>Prometheus is a standard Land Raider so can carry 10M or 5T as normal.
Sweet. I see a nice old Command Squad shaping up...
>The quality of the opponents are of above average ability (to my
>standard, I have only lost a few games in my local workshop). Most adult
>in nature and long term veteran who know how to use their armies to the
>best effect, in fact I taught some of them ;o)
=)
>Space Wolves are ideal for taking out tanks. Most of the time the
>opponent will try to take out your Land Raiders. My tactics are as
>follows. The mission was take and hold, the points was 2500. The IG play
>held the central position with 3 Leman Russ Battle tanks supported by a
>couple of Chimeras with Storm Troopers. I can't remember the exact
>configuration of his army as it was last year.
<snip battle report>
Nice job, that.
>To finish off I have a 4000 point Iron Wolf army in which *nothing*
>moves slower than 12 inches! Everthing is wheeled, tracked or has AG...
The vanilla Marine army I'm working on has every single model either
in a vehicle or on a bike, and I'll probably be doing the same with my
SWs. Also, every model bar the Stealth and Crisis suits, and obviously
the Hammerheads, in my planned Tau army also has a transport.
Mikael
received a subspace message from this:
[X] bloke [] bint []troll [] thing [] d00d
[] DJ [] moron [] NARP [] other,
rec.games.miniatures.warhammer:
Found it already myself, but cheers for posting it anyhow.
Qrab
<celtic...@notmail.com> wrote:
> The venerable Mikael quoted the following <3dcc24be.137729049
> @news.inet.fi> scrolls dated to Fri, 08 Nov 2002 20:54:32 GMT:
<snip>
> My basic tactic was to charge the 2 Land Raiders with the Rhino's
> in front to give the hull down the first turn the Rhino's fired
> their smokes preventing targetting of the Land Raiders behind
> (house rule as such if a vehicle in front of another fires smokes
> it blocks a 45d arc in front of it) 3 attack bikes armed with
> multi-melta went down one flank and 2 land speeders armed with
> Multi-meltas down the other flank hugging cover.
> All in all my casualties was the following: 1 5 man sqd scouts
> wiped out, 2 dead from the other. 2 Rhinos destroyed, other
> immobilised, Crusader lost it's multi-melta and 1 hurricane bolter
> set, 15 GH dead and 7 BC plus Rune priest dead. 1 Land speeder lost
> it's weapon and 2 attack bikes went down to lasguns! (embarressing
> moment going down to torchlights!)
It isn't surprising that your casualties were so light given that your
group plays with a house rule that totally screws shooting armies. The
game is already slanted towards assault armies, why did you feel it
necessary to give them even more of an advantage?
> To finish off I have a 4000 point Iron Wolf army in which *nothing*
> moves slower than 12 inches! Everthing is wheeled, tracked or has
> AG...
Cool. I was thinking of doing something like this with a Chaos force.
Iron Warriors was my first choice, but I've set this aside since the
release of the new codex.
--
Be seeing you-
Qrab
remove yourhead to reply
Sgáth
@news-server.san.rr.com> scrolls dated to Sat, 09 Nov 2002 01:29:18 GMT:
:-> It isn't surprising that your casualties were so light given that your
:-> group plays with a house rule that totally screws shooting armies. The
:-> game is already slanted towards assault armies, why did you feel it
:-> necessary to give them even more of an advantage?
It's a rule that is only used with the opponents permission, in this
ironically it was him that asked for the house rule to be created!. His
argument in this case that if smokes are fired from any vehicle then it
will block *anything* behind it. You probably be able to shot the
vehicles who fired the smoke but there is little you can do for what's
behind it.
I was in favour of a less strict set of rules which gave hull down to
the vehicles behind. Which in this case would have made more sense as
the Land Raider is twice the size of the Rhino.
At the end of the day it's a house rule that I am not happy with and
rarely play with it. I don't need this rule to win battles, whilst some
call be cheesy for saying that 3 Rhinos can gave hull down to 2 Land
Raiders that are behind them all I ask of an opponent is imagine the
scene that the Rhinos a spewing out exhaust fumes upwards and no doubt
chewing dirt as well and when they fire smokes.... However I allow
direct line of sight to units when they can draw a line direct to the
Land Raiders no *mattter* the angle and that they can avoid the Rhinos
with that line. As a final note on this I only ever use this tactic
against Imperial tank regiments, prefering a wider front to troop based
armies which makes it *very* hard to support any units as they will be
no doubt under attack soon themselves :o)
I am still learning on how best to deploy this army under the new
assualt rules with varying success. Under the new assualt rules it
favours the wider front than anything else as you can prevent the enemy
laying down a lot of covering fire. Also engaging 5 enemy units in hth
screws any battle plan ;o)
--
Whenever you feel an impulse to perpetrate a piece of exceptionally fine
writing, obey it -- whole-heartedly -- and delete it before sending your
manuscript to press. Murder your darlings. - Sir Arthur Quiller-Couch
RGMW Dictator
> If it makes you feel any
> better, I'd field a predator with Daemonic Possession, Mutated Hull
> and the Daemon Parasite. Sure it is expensive, but an armour 14/13/11
> Predator with Twin-Las/Las that ignores shake and stun and repairs it
> self is a good solid fire base. Sadly it is much better than the
> Shitty Land Raider, and cheaper.
But a predator can't transport anything. That's easily worth the
difference in points, right? :)