Review - White Dwarf 251
P Bowles
Dwarf King is Vitalstatistix, the Savage Orcs are the Fintstones, Flesh is
being Torn, Captain Tycho's dead, Armageddon is now destined for war-torn
obscurity and the Imperium's defences are weakened, setting he stage for next
year's Tyranid invasion - it's all happening this month.
NEW RELEASES PRICE
WARHAMMER
Empire Flagellants (3) Ł5
Empire Engineer Ł4
Empire Wzard (1 on foot, 1 mounted) Ł8
Why would you need to buy two Wizards of different Colleges together? Except
for the Grey (oops, Shadow) Wizard pointing a strange staff in front of him,
these six are good models - the Light Wizard's lost his Egyptian theme (he
looks more like a Knight of the White Wolf than anything) and he, the vaguely
Necromantic Amethyst (I will keep using the College names) wizard and the Jade
Wizard are mounted. The Grey, Bright and Celestial are not and there is no
Amber or Gold Wizard so far. I like the Engineers as well, especially the
longrifleman (and let Lee make of that what he will).
Meanwhile, back in the ranks the Flagellants' faces make otherwise decent
models look gormless rather than rabid and the Militia set is the Mordheim
plastic box.
Orc and Goblin Battalion Ł40
No surprises here; 18 Arrer Boyz, 19 Boyz, 10 Wolf Riders, the Warboss and the
Chariot.
Grimgor Ironhide, Black Orc Warboss Ł6
Nice to see a properly imposing Warboss. Even nicer to see that he doesn't look
like those abominable Black Orcs.
Savage Orc Boyz (3) Ł5
"FintOrcs. Meet the FlintOrcs..." The old Savage Orcs were just that -
savage-looking primitives. These aren't bad models, for all that there are only
two basic poses with different weapon fits (at least they're better poses than
the Black Orcs' one) , but they are a lot more cartoony than the old ones as
well as being less dynamic. The paler skin tone GW's taken to using with its
Orcs doesn't compliment them either.
Orc Boar Boyz Command (1) Ł4
I like the approach that has been taken with the first metal command models of
the new edition - the blister contains one command model and three arm options
- one for the standard bearer, one for the Champion and one for the musician.
There are three Boar Boy Command bodies. I wasn't a fan of the Boar Boy models
themselves when they were released, however, and so I'm not too keen on these.
Goblin Rock Lobber (includes 5 Goblins and 1 Orc) Ł15
Goblin Doom Diver Catapult (rerelease. Includes 5 Goblins) Ł15
Empire Militia (boxed set of 20) Ł12
Goblin Wolf Riders (boxed set of 10) Ł12
Empire Army Deal Ł100
Orc Army Deal
Ł100
As far as I can tell, boxed armies have not been among GW's greatest successes,
so why do they bother? These armies include 'special edition' battle standard
bearers.
Orc: Warboss on Wyvern, 19 v6 Boyz, 18 Arrer Boyz, Boar Chariot, 10 Wolf
Riders, 20 Goblins, 20 Night Goblins, Goblin Shaman, Night Goblin Shaman,
Goblin Rock Lobber, 3 Fanatics and a Squig Herder team (2 Herders and 3
Squigs). It's not a bad deal - the BSB, Herder Team and Fanatics are free and
the rest amounts to Ł105 assuming the Orc Battalion set isn't itself
better-than-normal value (I haven't worked it out) - the boar-riding Boss from
that is included, though it isn't mentioned in the army summary it is pictured.
Empire: Battalion, Elector Count on Griffon, BSB, 20 Militia, 20 Empire
Soldiers, 1 Master Engineer, 1 Mounted Wizard (the one pictured is Jade/Life),
1 Wizard on Foot (pictured is Celestial), 1 Warrior Priest and 9 Greatswords
including command.
WARHAMMER 40,000
Chaos Space Marine Army Deal Ł100
Space Marine Army Deal Ł100
The issue may have more than the token 40k article, just to wrap Armageddon up,
but if this is the shape of things to come 40k will be fading into obscurity
more quickly than WFB5 did after the v3 release - no new models for the first
time in years, just sticking existing ones into a couple of bigger packs.
BLACK LIBRARY
Gaunt's Ghosts 3: Necropolis Ł5.99
The novella which comes with this issue is presumably a taster for this book,
which deals with a war against Chaos on a beleagured hive world.
2001 Calender Ł3.50
Town Crier 11 Ł3.50
Necromunda Magazine 2 Ł3.50
Warhammer Monthly 36 Ł2.20
Inferno 21 Ł5.00
CITADEL SCENERY
Orc Village Ł15.00
A convenient way to represent a village; three buildings and a stockade, with a
log path through it.
NEWS
Confirmation in the Editorial that the Tyranids will feature in the next major
GW campaign, presumably in the spring, and a green stuff picture of the new
Dwarf King model on his shield (no Throne of Power anymore) looking for all the
world like Vitalstatistix. The next thing you know, they'll remake Felix and
Gotrek looking like Asterix and Obelix... the Dwarfs and their book are due in
WD 253, with new releases for the Anvil, Gyrocopter and Flame Cannon in
addition to the King and the plastics. The new Dwarfs are apparently to be "far
more detailed and characterful than ever before". Even if I hadn't seen enough
of them to know this is true, they could hardly be worse than the old Marauder
ones.
WAAAGH! DA ORCS
Miniatures showcase, tactics by Jake Thornton and details on the development of
the book, actually finished before the Empire one, by Rick Priestly. There's
also a chart listing all the new Orc models and their sculptors (still to be
seen are the Goblin regiment due next month - and very impressive it looks too
- Squig Herders and Hoppers, by Juan Diaz so no wonder no one likes them, Night
Goblin Netters, Wurrzag the Savage Orc Shaman, Savage Orc Boar Boyz and a Giant
- no Savage Orc command for either unit, strangely).
This section also contains the first alteration to the Ravening Hordes lists,
so I'll copy it here:
Ravening Hordes - Chaos Dwarfs
- Replace the Special unit entries for Orc Boyz, Goblins and Black Orcs with
the following list entries from the Orc and Goblin Armies book: Goblins, Orc
Boyz, Orc Arrer Boyz and 0-1 units of Black Orcs. One unit of Orc Boyz may be
upgraded to Big'Uns as per the normal rules in that book. All of these count as
Special units in the Chaos Dwarf army.
- Delete special rule 5 about Orcs ignoring panicking Gobbos and replace it
with the full rules in the army book.
- Troops described in the Orc and Goblin book follow the rules described there
rather than those in Ravening Hordes.
- Hobgoblins follow the rules for Animosity found in the Orc and Goblin book.
Most of these are common sense rules, but I thought I'd point them out anyway
just to show that the CDs haven't been forgotten. :-)
DA ORCS OF THE IRON CLAW TRIBE
An army photo. I'm not sure whether the Pump Wagon shown is a new model, the
old one or a comversion.
GRIMGOR IRONHIDE
Rules and background for this Black Orc special character. Just in case you
thought special characters would be fair and down-powered in the new edition,
he costs 600pts. On the other hand, he takes up a Lord, Hero and Special Unit
slot. To summarise his abilities, he always strikes first, has S7, T5, 3
wounds, a 1+ save and a 5+ ward save and has Magic Resistance 1. Oh, and his
Bodyguard is a Black Orc unit which doesn't prevent you taking another Black
Orc unit, and it hates everyone (so does Grimgor). He gives his unit +2 combat
resolution as well. So, nice to know the new special characters are perfectly
reasonable and not at all likely to dominate the battlefield.
THE TEETH OF THE EMPIRE
Showcasing the new Empire models.
INDEX ASTARTES - BLOOD FRENZY
These seem to be an attempt to produce a balanced Blood Angels army - the Death
Company Dreadnought has been added, but the army can take only one tank (basic
transports excluded, but not the Land Raider) and it is more likely to lose
expensive models to the Black Rage (but by the same token it will probably have
a larger Death Company than the Blood Angels).
DOGS OF WAR - ARMY FOR HIRE
First is a warning that the DoW list is a Ravening Hordes list rather than a
completed army list (ie, there will be an army book and this ain't it). The
magic item list consists of only the common items in the Warhammer rulebook
(and which are reproduced in the section for the benefit of RH owners without
the rulebook).
The entries are all generic - gone are the unique units, particularly unusual
ones (Asarnil, the Hobgoblins, the Skinks, the Giants, Slayer Pirates, the
Birdmen) are out of the list while other entries represent particular units
(for instance, Bronzino's Galloper Guns are now just small Cannon following the
normal rules, while Beorg's Bearmen are Norse Marauders). New units have been
added in the form of Dwarfs (with no pistol options etc. and which are not
Slayers - basically, this entry is designed to allow players to use Imperial
Dwarf models) and the Halfling Hot Pot.
Hiring Dogs of War: Any unit may be taken as a Rare choice in any army with the
following restrictions:
- Chaos Dwarfs, High and Wood Elves and Orcs and Goblins cannot hire Dwarf Dogs
of War (but Dark Elves can, funnily enough).
- Bretonnia may not hire Dogs of War.
The units (together with my suggestions about which units to represent them)
are:
LORDS
Mercenary General (Mercenary General, Borgio the Beseiger, Lorenzo Lupo, any
human leader model)
Hireling Wizard Lord (Lucrezia Belladonna, any human Wizard)
HEROES
1 Paymaster (Mydas the Mean)
Mercenary Captain (as above for General)
Hireling Wizard (as above for Lord)
CORE UNITS
Pikemen (Leopold's Leopard Company, Alcatini Fellowship, Ricco's Republican
Guard, Pizzaro's Lost Legion)
Crossbowmen (Marksmen of Miragliano, Braganza's Besiegers, Pizzaro's Lost
Legion, old Tilean Crossbowmen from the Empire range, old Empire Crossbowmen
multipart models, Militia with crossbows).
Duellists (Vespero's Vendetta. Militiamen could also serve in this capacity,
maybe even Witch Hunters - imagine making a history for THAT regiment).
Heavy Cavalry (Voland's Venators, any human knight with a lance, though
Bretonnians may take some explaining).
Light Cavalry (Al Muktar's Desert Dogs, Mounted Squires with spears, possibly
Mounted Chaos Marauders).
SPECIAL UNITS
Ogres (Golfag's Ogres, Ogres)
Dwarfs (Imperial Dwarfs, Dwarf Clansmen, Dwarf Hammerers, Dwarf Longbeards,
Dwarf Ironbreakers, Dwarf Crossbowmen).
Norse Marauders (Beorg's Bearmen, possibly Chaos Marauders).
0-1 Paymaster's Bodyguard (Empire Soldiers, Men at Arms with halberds, old
Empire Footsoldiers with halberds).
0-1 Halflings (Lumpin Croop's Fighting Cocks, Halflings)
RARE UNITS
Cannon (Bronzino's Galloper Guns, any small cannon)
Halfling Hot Pot (Sorry, drawing a blank here...)
I am happy with these generic ones because it gives players a lot of room for
customising their own regiments and explaining why they look the way they do
(those Duellist Witch Hunters, for instance), and it allows players to dig out
those most appropriate of mercenary models - the Tilean Crossbowmen from the
old Empire range. Next month will apparently see the return of the Regiments of
Renown and special characters.
Overall, the DoW list is what people who've been complaining about the absence
of certain units from the Empire army book have been looking for - a human-led
army with an assortment of troops (though all core units are human). It looks
fair, if not especially strong then not weak either.
TILEA - HOME OF THE MERCENARY
A map and brief background page of the sort the other armies got last month.
DOW MODEL SHOWCASE
INSIDIOUS THREAT
Alpha Legion army showcase.
WAAAGH TUFFGIT
Ork army showcase.
WOLVES OF FENRIS
Sisters of Battle army show...OK, maybe not. There are a lot of 40k showcases
here, from the Grand Tournament 2000, one or more for most races:
NEMESIS (Chaos Space Marine Renegades)
WAAGH! GROTSKULL (Gretchin)
YOUNG BLOODS (DA Scouts)
PATH OF THE WARRIOR (Biel-Tan)
HONOUR OR DEATH (Space Marines, Ronin Chapter)
ADVERTISEMENTS
WARHAMMER REFERENCE SHEET
MORE ADVERTISEMENTS
CLOAK AND DAGGER
Gaunt's Ghosts' adventures explored, up to and including Necropolis.
TWISTED EVOLUTION
An enormous Tyranid horde in revolting shades of purple and orange.
CHAPTER APPROVED
Optional rules for members of SM Command Squads, allowing you to assign
Techmarines and Apothecaries to other squads (including costs for upgrading
them with that squad's equipment).
CODEX ORKS Q&A
Including clarified rules for the army Banna Wava.
CEASEFIRE!
Has Armageddon fallen or have the Orks been repelled? Neither, actually. The
result was a draw so they're still fighting over the planet (though Hive
Tempestora, the site of GW's supposedly rigged battle report, is in Ork hands -
perhaps they rigged it again later to avoid suspicion...). In fact, the
eventual outcome of each warzone's conflict is chronicled here.
The chances are we won't be seeing Armageddon again - Yarrick and Ghazghull
have left the planet while it is still being contested; unable to act as a
major world in the Imperium in its current state it will probably fall into
obscurity while Yarrick and Ghazgkhull continue to fight across the galaxy -
I'm betting this is exactly the opposite of what most people, who like
Armageddon but are tired of the two characters, wanted. Rumour has it that
Ghazgkhull has embarked upon the Final Battle of Ork legend, known as - wait
for it - Ragna-Ork (*groan*).
SLAUGHTER AT FORT IRONHIDE
Orcs v. Empire battle report,
That's it for this month. There's a fair amount here for everyone with an
interest in the two main game systems, though unsurprisingly more for WFB
players.
Philip Bowles
"Da stoopid humies fink we come 'ere coz we wuz Ghazghull's soljers. We came
'ere to stomp humies, trash dere shacks an' watch 'em burn. Not coz Ghazghkull
says but coz we LIKE doin' it. Now we're gonna do it again..." - Mhagdhash Kur
Kroksnik addressing the Death Traks from the ruins of Hades Hive.
incrdbil
>I'm betting this is exactly the opposite of what most people, who like
>Armageddon but are tired of the two characters, wanted. Rumour has it that
>Ghazgkhull has embarked upon the Final Battle of Ork legend, known as - wait
>for it - Ragna-Ork (*groan*).
>
I think you peged it. Yarrick is getting too old for this crap.
Ghazgkhull is a multi-time loser, why any orks are still following him
now is a mystery.
Perhaps someone can suggest to GW that the attempts at humor they have
been making (the disney-rip off name for a DE character, mon-keigh and
the above stupdity, among other things, including the silly in-jokes)
really doesn't amuse anyone, and makes their efforts seem juvenile and
childish.
John L. Martin
news:20001018122311...@nso-bd.aol.com...
> - Bretonnia may not hire Dogs of War.
ARRRGGGHHH! Must...control...fist...of...death!
Bret's can hire NO DoW? Period? I rather liked pikemen in my main battle
line along with crossbows. It seemed so, medieval.
Not hiring cannons I could see...but this?
A pox on Games Workshop!
> CHAPTER APPROVED
>
> Optional rules for members of SM Command Squads, allowing you to assign
> Techmarines and Apothecaries to other squads (including costs for
upgrading
> them with that squad's equipment).
FINALLY! Marine characters can lead squads again.
<Dances Jig>
So there IS a reason for not ending it all.
--
John
E-mail: jlma...@nconnect.net
URL: http://www.nconnect.net/~jlmartin
ICQ: 9738000
"And they had over them a king, an angel of this abyss; his name is
Abaddon."
Rev. 9:11
Jakearon
>result was a draw so they're still fighting over the planet
how can it be a draw? the orks have been losing the entire campaign. the damn
things rigged
incrdbil
>how can it be a draw? the orks have been losing the entire campaign. the damn
>things rigged
you know, if one does entertain the riggd theorey-then the draw seems
to be the one that should have been expected. No big change at
all--no danger of making any player block really upset.
Just a huge non-factor, a complete lack of impact on the main 40k
storyline.
Yarrik and Ghaz just leave the plant? They don't stick it out? just
depart?
What a way to end a campaign with a whimper.
And ya---the next big campaign is with the bugs. The onyl army more
scarce than orks to find I think--so we'll have another campaign where
one of the main sides will actually be featured in a minority of
games. Not that they bugs havent already had a big GW campaign doen
for them.
I was hoping for a Black Crusade...you know--chaos vs the
Imperium--the main thrust of the entire 40k story?
Corryn MacLennan
P Bowles wrote:
> Ravening Hordes - Chaos Dwarfs
>
> - Replace the Special unit entries for Orc Boyz, Goblins and Black Orcs with
> the following list entries from the Orc and Goblin Armies book: Goblins, Orc
> Boyz, Orc Arrer Boyz and 0-1 units of Black Orcs. One unit of Orc Boyz may be
> upgraded to Big'Uns as per the normal rules in that book. All of these count as
> Special units in the Chaos Dwarf army.
>
> - Delete special rule 5 about Orcs ignoring panicking Gobbos and replace it
> with the full rules in the army book.
>
> - Troops described in the Orc and Goblin book follow the rules described there
> rather than those in Ravening Hordes.
>
> - Hobgoblins follow the rules for Animosity found in the Orc and Goblin book.
>
> Most of these are common sense rules, but I thought I'd point them out anyway
> just to show that the CDs haven't been forgotten. :-)
Now there's a big surprise. I guess I'll keep working on my CDs. Anyone have some
hobgoblin wolfriders or gits they want to sell?
James
Advocate of KAAOS
Corryn MacLennan
> >how can it be a draw? the orks have been losing the entire campaign. the damn
> >things rigged
>
> you know, if one does entertain the riggd theorey-then the draw seems
> to be the one that should have been expected. No big change at
> all--no danger of making any player block really upset.
>
> Just a huge non-factor, a complete lack of impact on the main 40k
> storyline.
>
> Yarrik and Ghaz just leave the plant? They don't stick it out? just
> depart?
>
> What a way to end a campaign with a whimper.
>
> And ya---the next big campaign is with the bugs. The onyl army more
> scarce than orks to find I think--so we'll have another campaign where
> one of the main sides will actually be featured in a minority of
> games. Not that they bugs havent already had a big GW campaign doen
> for them.
Yep. At least we have some Ork players. I'll guess I'll have to dust off my now
mostly obsolete bug models...or not.
James
Advocate of KAAOS
TheInvisibleDuck
>So, the Orcs are here, Dogs of War are hiring themselves out once again, the
>Dwarf King is Vitalstatistix, the Savage Orcs are the Fintstones, Flesh is
>being Torn, Captain Tycho's dead, Armageddon is now destined for war-torn
STOP! wtf? Tycho dead? Nooooooooooooooooo!!!
C'mon don't leave me hanging like this; is it one of those 'presumed dead' that
Ghazgull seems to get every 5 minutes, or it it <gulp> terminal?
The Invisible Duck
Jakearon
>Imperium--the main thrust of the entire 40k story?
i heard the next campign would ty in with a codex called horus heresy, along
the lines of srmageddon, with the black legion, worldeaters, rouge guard and a
space marine army, don't know which one though
Matthew Sprange
>
> C'mon don't leave me hanging like this; is it one of those 'presumed dead'
that
> Ghazgull seems to get every 5 minutes, or it it <gulp> terminal?
Something we discussed during Armageddon - Paul said he wanted to get the
'epic' feel of Armageddon across to people. I suggested there was only one
way to do that properly and that Tycho was a good target :)
Sorry Blood Angels guys - but I am a Flesh Tearer, you know?
Matthew
La Grief
Jakearon <jake...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20001018143656...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
| >The
| >result was a draw so they're still fighting over the planet
|
| things rigged
And here we go...how about the fact that over all (thanks to hive tempestora) the
imperials were winning online only by no more than 10%....you call a 10% win rate
over your opponents enough to keep a hold?
--
-Lee
Ravening Hordes - http://go.to/ravening-hordes/
Fight against Freeserve
http://www.ridhughz.demon.co.uk/freeserve/
La Grief
Matthew Sprange <alt...@clara.net> wrote in message
news:t7oH5.783$p03.1...@nnrp4.clara.net...
And Tycho is a cheese monkey.
Jason Larke
>>>>> <alt...@clara.net> said:
MS> Sorry Blood Angels guys - but I am a Flesh Tearer, you know?
Did people really like Tycho? I thought he sucked. In particular,
in 3rd edition, any sane Blood Angel who can pick his weapons
carries a pistol of some sort and a power weapon.
--
Jason Larke- jla...@uu.net- http://www.nnaf.net/~jlarke Send mail for PGP key
I don't speak for UUNET or MCI Worldcom. I speak for Odin. And he's *pissed*.
"The Rock can't say I quit, because the Rock only talks in the third person."
"People change, and smile: but the agony abides."-T.S. Eliot, The Dry Salvages
P Bowles
jake...@aol.comnojunk (Jakearon) writes:
>>The
>>result was a draw so they're still fighting over the planet
>
>how can it be a draw? the orks have been losing the entire campaign. the damn
>things rigged
How do you work that one out? The 54% Imperial victories are consistent with
the totalled warzone results on the Armageddon page.
Philip Bowles
P Bowles
<jlma...@nconnect.net> writes:
>> - Bretonnia may not hire Dogs of War.
>ARRRGGGHHH! Must...control...fist...of...death!
>
>Bret's can hire NO DoW? Period? I rather liked pikemen in my main battle
>line along with crossbows. It seemed so, medieval.
>
>Not hiring cannons I could see...but this?
>
>A pox on Games Workshop!
I say bring back the ballista and rerelease the original Bret range - one of
the best it ever priduced, models you wouldn't be ashamed to use in historical
games and with a genuinely Arthurian feel rather than the fairy tale knights
with silly hats we have now.
Philip Bowles
P Bowles
<alt...@clara.net> writes:
>> STOP! wtf? Tycho dead? Nooooooooooooooooo!!!
>>
>> C'mon don't leave me hanging like this; is it one of those 'presumed dead'
>that
>> Ghazgull seems to get every 5 minutes, or it it <gulp> terminal?
>
>Something we discussed during Armageddon - Paul said he wanted to get the
>'epic' feel of Armageddon across to people. I suggested there was only one
>way to do that properly and that Tycho was a good target :)
You bastard. Why couldn't you kill Ragnar Blackmane, Logan Grimnar, Chaplain
Xavier, one of the Dark Angels - anyone who isn't GW's oldest named SM
character?
Philip Bowles
P Bowles
theinvis...@aol.com (TheInvisibleDuck) writes:
>>So, the Orcs are here, Dogs of War are hiring themselves out once again, the
>>Dwarf King is Vitalstatistix, the Savage Orcs are the Fintstones, Flesh is
>>being Torn, Captain Tycho's dead, Armageddon is now destined for war-torn
>
>STOP! wtf? Tycho dead? Nooooooooooooooooo!!!
>
>C'mon don't leave me hanging like this; is it one of those 'presumed dead'
>that
>Ghazgull seems to get every 5 minutes, or it it <gulp> terminal?
No, and if you wait to read about it in WD you'll feel cheated - it just has a
stat line and rules representing "Tycho at Hive Tempestora" and a blurb saying
that this was the battle in which he died. I'm a little upset and I don't even
play Marines - Tycho was THE SM icon, way back to the cover of the RT
Compendium and the first ever battle report (okay, Ghazghkull was in that as
well but everyone's fed up with him).
Philip Bowles
P Bowles
incr...@nospam.flinthills.com (incrdbil) writes:
Some of it can be entertaining but I was put off to find that a major character
in WFB Tilean history was called Curious Geasar just to get a laugh - jokes,
even bad jokes, are one thing but making them a part of the game background is
taking things too far - the same goes for mon-keigh (though I have no objection
to Kruellagh the Vile).
Philip Bowles
vermillian
pbo...@aol.com (P Bowles) wrote:
> This section also contains the first alteration to the Ravening
Hordes lists,
> so I'll copy it here:
>
> Ravening Hordes - Chaos Dwarfs
>
> Most of these are common sense rules, but I thought I'd point
them out anyway
> just to show that the CDs haven't been forgotten. :-)
Hooray! Rejoice and sacrifice many a virgin to the firey pits of
Hashut! etc... etc...
> DOGS OF WAR - ARMY FOR HIRE
> Light Cavalry (Al Muktar's Desert Dogs, Mounted Squires with
spears, possibly
> Mounted Chaos Marauders).
I don't think anyone would be TOO particularly upset if I used
HobGoblin Wolfriders for Ligh Cav., would they?
> SPECIAL UNITS
>
> Ogres (Golfag's Ogres, Ogres)
>
> Dwarfs (Imperial Dwarfs, Dwarf Clansmen, Dwarf Hammerers,
Dwarf Longbeards,
> Dwarf Ironbreakers, Dwarf Crossbowmen).
Damnit... What am I going to do with my regiment of Long Drong's
Pirate Slayers! And NO I'm NOT donating them to the insane ranter
fund...
> TWISTED EVOLUTION
>
> An enormous Tyranid horde in revolting shades of purple and
orange.
Agreed. Hideous.
> That's it for this month. There's a fair amount here for everyone
with an
> interest in the two main game systems, though unsurprisingly
more for WFB
> players.
What's off though... This is US's WD250...
--
~Screaming Vermillian
ScreamVermillian on AIM
"They grow old and depressed while children starve to death.
Elderly have one last gift for us 'fore they pass.
He had use. Now it's done. Cook the old. Feed the young."
~Deadly Toothpase - Eat Them
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
vermillian
incr...@nospam.flinthills.com (incrdbil) wrote:
>
> >how can it be a draw? the orks have been losing the entire
campaign. the damn
> >things rigged
>
> Imperium--the main thrust of the entire 40k story?
Oh? And all this time I thought it was the 'Decline' of the Eldar race
that drove the story! Silly me!
vermillian
jake...@aol.comnojunk (Jakearon) wrote:
> > was hoping for a Black Crusade...you know--chaos vs the
> >Imperium--the main thrust of the entire 40k story?
>
heresy, along
> the lines of srmageddon, with the black legion, worldeaters,
rouge guard and a
> space marine army, don't know which one though
1) HOW do you tie in Nids' with Ancient Gods bent on conquering
humanity.
2) Been reading rumours off of Portent.net again, have you? *tsk*
P Bowles
writes:
>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:57:25 +0100, "Matthew Sprange"
>>>>>> <alt...@clara.net> said:
>
>MS> Sorry Blood Angels guys - but I am a Flesh Tearer, you know?
>
>Did people really like Tycho? I thought he sucked. In particular,
>in 3rd edition, any sane Blood Angel who can pick his weapons
>carries a pistol of some sort and a power weapon.
It's not the rules (I've no idea what they are) it's the history - Tycho dates
back to Rogue Trader days, and he's the gold-armoured BA Captain on the front
of the RT Companion (or is it Compendium? The Red Book). He was in the first
battle report GW ran (against the Ork warband of a certain Ghazghkull Thraka).
That's why I'll miss him, at least.
Philip Bowles
Daniel Bond
models anymore as him because he's "Dead"
Daniel Bond
"Matthew Sprange" <alt...@clara.net> wrote in message
news:t7oH5.783$p03.1...@nnrp4.clara.net...
> > STOP! wtf? Tycho dead? Nooooooooooooooooo!!!
> >
> > C'mon don't leave me hanging like this; is it one of those 'presumed
dead'
> that
> > Ghazgull seems to get every 5 minutes, or it it <gulp> terminal?
>
> Something we discussed during Armageddon - Paul said he wanted to get the
> 'epic' feel of Armageddon across to people. I suggested there was only
one
> way to do that properly and that Tycho was a good target :)
>
> Sorry Blood Angels guys - but I am a Flesh Tearer, you know?
>
> Matthew
>
>
vermillian
cor...@airmail.net wrote:
>
>
> P Bowles wrote:
>
> > Ravening Hordes - Chaos Dwarfs
> >
> > - Replace the Special unit entries for Orc Boyz, Goblins and
Black Orcs with
> > the following list entries from the Orc and Goblin Armies book:
Goblins, Orc
> > Boyz, Orc Arrer Boyz and 0-1 units of Black Orcs. One unit of
Orc Boyz may be
> > upgraded to Big'Uns as per the normal rules in that book. All of
these count as
> > Special units in the Chaos Dwarf army.
> >
> > - Delete special rule 5 about Orcs ignoring panicking Gobbos
and replace it
> > with the full rules in the army book.
> >
> > - Troops described in the Orc and Goblin book follow the rules
described there
> > rather than those in Ravening Hordes.
> >
> > - Hobgoblins follow the rules for Animosity found in the Orc and
Goblin book.
> >
> > Most of these are common sense rules, but I thought I'd point
them out anyway
> > just to show that the CDs haven't been forgotten. :-)
>
Anyone have some
> hobgoblin wolfriders or gits they want to sell?
Yeah, you and every other CD fan out there wants them... Call the
Mail Order Trolls...
Matthew Sprange
Chaplain
> Xavier, one of the Dark Angels - anyone who isn't GW's oldest named SM
> character?
Because, otherwise, it just would not have an effect :)
Call it the Kosh-Factor. . .
Matthew
Brad Hann
>>>result was a draw so they're still fighting over the planet
>>
>>things rigged
>
>the totalled warzone results on the Armageddon page.
Is that including the BfG results? IIRC the Orks were being utterly
pulverised in orbit. With no reinforcements getting through, it would
only be a matter of time before those on the surface were eradicated.
Brad
--
To mail me, you will need to remove one of the .au's from my address.
If you can't figure out which one, I probably don't want to hear from you.
Brad Hann
>back to Rogue Trader days, and he's the gold-armoured BA Captain on the front
>of the RT Companion (or is it Compendium? The Red Book).
ISTR that the Red Book had Ultramaroons on it. Tycho and the BA were
on the cover of the Yellow Book, surrounded by genestealers.
incrdbil
>
(though I have no objection
>to Kruellagh the Vile).
>
incrdbil
wrote:
>In article <39edeebf...@usenet.flinthills.com>,
> incr...@nospam.flinthills.com (incrdbil) wrote:
>>
>> >how can it be a draw? the orks have been losing the entire
>campaign. the damn
>> >things rigged
>>
>> I was hoping for a Black Crusade...you know--chaos vs the
>> Imperium--the main thrust of the entire 40k story?
>
>Oh? And all this time I thought it was the 'Decline' of the Eldar race
>that drove the story! Silly me!
>
na--the Eldar were just meant to explain the eye of terror to set up
the main plot line. the surviving Eldar are just the remnants of a
plot device :)
incrdbil
>
>Is that including the BfG results? IIRC the Orks were being utterly
>pulverised in orbit. With no reinforcements getting through, it would
>only be a matter of time before those on the surface were eradicated.
>
>Brad
the atatckers failing to break even, plus the BFG losses, do indded
point out that the Imperials hweld on, and that the ORks ill slowly be
squeezed off. The mopping up will be prolonged..but caling it an out
and out draw?
So, a draw may have the the rigged result after all...
incrdbil
selling that fig as well--if looks aren't enough allready.
Vampy
>>
>>Something we discussed during Armageddon - Paul said he wanted to get the
>>'epic' feel of Armageddon across to people. I suggested there was only
one
>>way to do that properly and that Tycho was a good target :)
>
Chaplain
>Xavier, one of the Dark Angels - anyone who isn't GW's oldest named SM
>character?
Who is also one of the few special characters these days to actually have a
decent mini. Why oh why couldn't it have been L******s?
P Bowles
incr...@nospam.flinthills.com (incrdbil) writes:
>the atatckers failing to break even, plus the BFG losses, do indded
>point out that the Imperials hweld on, and that the ORks ill slowly be
>squeezed off. The mopping up will be prolonged..but caling it an out
>and out draw?
According to WD, more Orks are pouring into the sector (along with more
Imperials) hoping to keep the war going ad infinitum - I can't help feeling
that the worst way to end a campaign is to end it 'offscreen' as it were,
leaving players feeling cheated. I actually WANTED the Imperium to win...
Philip Bowles
P Bowles
writes:
>> DOGS OF WAR - ARMY FOR HIRE
>
>> Light Cavalry (Al Muktar's Desert Dogs, Mounted Squires with
>spears, possibly
>> Mounted Chaos Marauders).
>
>I don't think anyone would be TOO particularly upset if I used
>HobGoblin Wolfriders for Ligh Cav., would they?
They might be surprised... I strongly suspect the Wolfboyz will be one of the
Regiments of Renown featured next month.
>> SPECIAL UNITS
>>
>> Ogres (Golfag's Ogres, Ogres)
>>
>> Dwarfs (Imperial Dwarfs, Dwarf Clansmen, Dwarf Hammerers,
>Dwarf Longbeards,
>> Dwarf Ironbreakers, Dwarf Crossbowmen).
>
>Damnit... What am I going to do with my regiment of Long Drong's
>Pirate Slayers! And NO I'm NOT donating them to the insane ranter
>fund...
Again, they'll be a Regiment of Renown.
Philip Bowles
P Bowles
writes:
>2) Been reading rumours off of Portent.net again, have you? *tsk*
Portent claims the next campaign will be a Dark Elf invasion of Ulthuan.
Philip Bowles
Erik Setzer
of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>CEASEFIRE!
>
>Has Armageddon fallen or have the Orks been repelled? Neither, actually. The
>result was a draw so they're still fighting over the planet (though Hive
>Tempestora, the site of GW's supposedly rigged battle report, is in Ork hands -
>perhaps they rigged it again later to avoid suspicion...). In fact, the
>eventual outcome of each warzone's conflict is chronicled here.
>
>The chances are we won't be seeing Armageddon again - Yarrick and Ghazghull
>have left the planet while it is still being contested; unable to act as a
>major world in the Imperium in its current state it will probably fall into
>obscurity while Yarrick and Ghazgkhull continue to fight across the galaxy -
>I'm betting this is exactly the opposite of what most people, who like
>Armageddon but are tired of the two characters, wanted. Rumour has it that
>Ghazgkhull has embarked upon the Final Battle of Ork legend, known as - wait
>for it - Ragna-Ork (*groan*).
Damn! How many of us saw that one coming?
-Erik
------------------------------------------------------------
The strong are strongest alone.
In an hour of Darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Insanity look to the madman to show the way.
Astral Projections - GW Games, Mailing Lists, Fiction, and more!
http://www.geocities.com/kaptingavrin
------------------------------------------------------------
Terminator Wannabe (TM) is a trademark of any Necron. Used whether the bloody recycled scrap pile likes it or not.
Erik Setzer
(incrdbil) drank a glass of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>
>>I'm betting this is exactly the opposite of what most people, who like
>>Armageddon but are tired of the two characters, wanted. Rumour has it that
>>Ghazgkhull has embarked upon the Final Battle of Ork legend, known as - wait
>>for it - Ragna-Ork (*groan*).
>>
>
>I think you peged it. Yarrick is getting too old for this crap.
I agree with you here. The guy was old when the 2nd battle happened,
then 50 years passed. Humans may have discovered enough tech to live
a long time, but they're not immortal.
Same for Ghazghkull, though the "power living" (bad pun, I know)
excuse might work for him.
>Ghazgkhull is a multi-time loser, why any orks are still following him
>now is a mystery.
If he left those Orks behind, he can make the claim that Yarrick "ran
from him", then take his most "loyal" Boyz and start a new Waagh!.
Just my .02.
Erik Setzer
(incrdbil) drank a glass of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
> (though I have no objection
>>to Kruellagh the Vile).
>at least they didn't paint her white with black spots all over....
*Shudder*. Man, that's a frightening image. :P
I once saw her painted with just strings for an "outfit". GW felt
they had to "censor" the picture.
Erik Setzer
(incrdbil) drank a glass of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>>how can it be a draw? the orks have been losing the entire campaign. the damn
>>things rigged
Orks were winning at some points. Check out Maximum Warhammer's news
pages to see how it went.
>you know, if one does entertain the riggd theorey-then the draw seems
>to be the one that should have been expected. No big change at
>all--no danger of making any player block really upset.
>
>Just a huge non-factor, a complete lack of impact on the main 40k
>storyline.
It means no players get upset at the loss of their army, but at what
price?
>Yarrik and Ghaz just leave the plant? They don't stick it out? just
>depart?
>
>What a way to end a campaign with a whimper.
That is a big injustice to the players, IMHO. There were thousands of
gamers all excited over making a big impact in the 40k universe, and
it was just dumped. It makes one wonder: what was the point of
playing in the campaign?
>And ya---the next big campaign is with the bugs. The onyl army more
>scarce than orks to find I think--so we'll have another campaign where
>one of the main sides will actually be featured in a minority of
>games. Not that they bugs havent already had a big GW campaign doen
>for them.
I've seen more Orks than some armies. But how many people will be
willing to participate this time? I mean, it'll take a long time for
some gamers to get over the disappointment of Arm3. Why participate
if it will ultimately mean nothing? I'll still send in my results,
but I'm not sure this one will see as much of a turnout as Arm3.
>I was hoping for a Black Crusade...you know--chaos vs the
>Imperium--the main thrust of the entire 40k story?
That would have been nice. Actually, with the Arm3 draw that could be
a feasible event. Why don't you write it up and try to get it onto
some web site? Or, heck, see if Matt can get that idea through his
contacts. It will make people feel like Arm3 *did* mean something,
and the draw will actually have an impact. Then gamers will walk away
from Arm3 no longer feeling disappointed, but feeling like they
actually influenced the 40k universe. Heck, it might even boost the
number of participants, and that would mean increased sales for GW,
and a rebound from the disappointment of Arm3.
Erik Setzer
glass of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>> was hoping for a Black Crusade...you know--chaos vs the
>>Imperium--the main thrust of the entire 40k story?
>
>i heard the next campign would ty in with a codex called horus heresy, along
>the lines of srmageddon, with the black legion, worldeaters, rouge guard and a
>space marine army, don't know which one though
Codex: Horus Heresy *is* coming, but it's still a bit down the line.
Erik Setzer
drank a glass of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>| how can it be a draw? the orks have been losing the entire campaign. the damn
>| things rigged
>
>And here we go...how about the fact that over all (thanks to hive tempestora) the
>imperials were winning online only by no more than 10%....you call a 10% win rate
>over your opponents enough to keep a hold?
Especially against Orks...
Erik Setzer
of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>>the atatckers failing to break even, plus the BFG losses, do indded
>>point out that the Imperials hweld on, and that the ORks ill slowly be
>>squeezed off. The mopping up will be prolonged..but caling it an out
>>and out draw?
>
>According to WD, more Orks are pouring into the sector (along with more
>Imperials) hoping to keep the war going ad infinitum - I can't help feeling
>that the worst way to end a campaign is to end it 'offscreen' as it were,
>leaving players feeling cheated. I actually WANTED the Imperium to win...
I actually wanted the Orks to win, but I feel more disappointed by a
"draw" than an Imperial win. It means this was basically all for
nought.
Erik Setzer
>> STOP! wtf? Tycho dead? Nooooooooooooooooo!!!
>>
>> C'mon don't leave me hanging like this; is it one of those 'presumed dead'
>that
>> Ghazgull seems to get every 5 minutes, or it it <gulp> terminal?
>
>Something we discussed during Armageddon - Paul said he wanted to get the
>'epic' feel of Armageddon across to people. I suggested there was only one
>way to do that properly and that Tycho was a good target :)
>
>Sorry Blood Angels guys - but I am a Flesh Tearer, you know?
What? They had him survive getting killed before, just to do this?
Well, they actually *did* find a way to piss off the gamers.
I just hope you're joking about you being the one to suggest the idea.
Tycho was my favorite BA character, and the only one with any real
character to him.
Erik Setzer
of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>>Did people really like Tycho? I thought he sucked. In particular,
>>in 3rd edition, any sane Blood Angel who can pick his weapons
>>carries a pistol of some sort and a power weapon.
>
>It's not the rules (I've no idea what they are) it's the history - Tycho dates
>back to Rogue Trader days, and he's the gold-armoured BA Captain on the front
>of the RT Companion (or is it Compendium? The Red Book). He was in the first
>battle report GW ran (against the Ork warband of a certain Ghazghkull Thraka).
>That's why I'll miss him, at least.
Compendium, the yellow book. I have it with me.
Erik Setzer
<alt...@clara.net> drank a glass of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>> You bastard. Why couldn't you kill Ragnar Blackmane, Logan Grimnar,
>Chaplain
>> Xavier, one of the Dark Angels - anyone who isn't GW's oldest named SM
>> character?
>
>Because, otherwise, it just would not have an effect :)
Matt, this isn't against you, because it's GW's fault, but...
Killing Tycho would only give an "epic" feel if the campaign had a
clear winner. Being a draw was a big enough upset. Killing off one
of the oldest and most loved GW characters while letting Yarrick and
Ghazghkull get away *again* will only make things worse. I don't
fault you for the "draw", because you couldn't control that, but look
at what happened and please explain to me some way I could be wrong
here. I'm not being sarcastic, I am *begging* you to prove me wrong
here.
Erik Setzer
<toms...@theuk.freeuk.com> drank a glass of cyanide Koolaid and
exclaimed:
>>You bastard. Why couldn't you kill Ragnar Blackmane, Logan Grimnar,
>Chaplain
>>Xavier, one of the Dark Angels - anyone who isn't GW's oldest named SM
>>character?
>
>Who is also one of the few special characters these days to actually have a
>decent mini. Why oh why couldn't it have been L******s?
Too new, and I imagine some of the kids liked him. Why couldn't they
finally let Yarrick or Ghazghkull die off? *That* would have made it
"epic"!
Erik Setzer
of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>>Something we discussed during Armageddon - Paul said he wanted to get the
>>'epic' feel of Armageddon across to people. I suggested there was only one
>>way to do that properly and that Tycho was a good target :)
>
>You bastard. Why couldn't you kill Ragnar Blackmane, Logan Grimnar, Chaplain
>Xavier, one of the Dark Angels - anyone who isn't GW's oldest named SM
>character?
Philip, can you actually picture Matt, a devout DA player, suggesting
Asmodai be killed off? Can you picture *any* DA player suggesting
something like that?
P Bowles
(Erik Setzer) writes:
>Too new, and I imagine some of the kids liked him. Why couldn't they
>finally let Yarrick or Ghazghkull die off? *That* would have made it
>"epic"!
I still think Ragnar Blackmane's death would have been epic...
Philip Bowles
John M. Dunn
P Bowles <pbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001019083645...@nso-bh.aol.com...
> I still think Ragnar Blackmane's death would have been epic...
They can't kill him 'til his novel deal is over. It might hurt sales of the
books.
-John
P Bowles
>"draw" than an Imperial win.
I agree. Remember all those hypothetical scenarios about what GW would do to
evict the Orks if they did win (virus bombs etc.)? I think I'd have preferred
any of them to this lacklustre conclusion.
Philip Bowles
P Bowles
>clear winner.
I completely agree. Twice in one day? The end of the world is nigh (but
definitely not Ragna-Ork).
Philip Bowles
Erik Setzer
of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>>I actually wanted the Orks to win, but I feel more disappointed by a
I would rather have seen it rigged than to see it all come down to
*nothing*. Heck, if it's a draw why not just pull out and virus bomb
the planet? It won't hurt the industry, and as I understand it all
the citizens are dead anyway, between the Marines and the Orks...
Erik Setzer
of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>>Killing Tycho would only give an "epic" feel if the campaign had a
Scary, I know... :P
Who came up with that "Ragna-Ork" anyway? Is that supposed to be
another "joke", aimed at "Ragnarok"?
Erik Setzer
of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>>Too new, and I imagine some of the kids liked him. Why couldn't they
>>finally let Yarrick or Ghazghkull die off? *That* would have made it
>>"epic"!
>
>I still think Ragnar Blackmane's death would have been epic...
Yeah, then they could stage the "RagnaR-Ork". ;)
P Bowles
(Erik Setzer) writes:
>Who came up with that "Ragna-Ork" anyway?
Probably Thorpe.
Philip Bowles
incrdbil
>
>According to WD, more Orks are pouring into the sector (along with more
>Imperials) hoping to keep the war going ad infinitum - I can't help feeling
>that the worst way to end a campaign is to end it 'offscreen' as it were,
>leaving players feeling cheated. I actually WANTED the Imperium to win...
>
so, we can safely say thatA3 realyl has no worthwhile ending, and
players games wound up creating a big pathetic non-event. yee-ha.
incrdbil
>>Killing Tycho would only give an "epic" feel if the campaign had a
>>clear winner.
>
>I completely agree. Twice in one day? The end of the world is nigh (but
>definitely not Ragna-Ork).
>
I'll toss in my agreement. He pretty much died in what os now a
worthless cause. If GW was oign to kill off a named character, there
should have been some impact from it. Either the resutl of a Imperial
Loss, or buying a victory..but a draw? Yawn.
incrdbil
>I still think Ragnar Blackmane's death would have been epic...
>
actyually, it's closer to Grimnas time to drop dead..but hey, his new
model just came out not too long ago, and you don't want to discourage
sales.....
But then..why not Lem*****--I can't believe that model is selling to
anyone but the blind.
TheInvisibleDuck
>stat line and rules representing "Tycho at Hive Tempestora" and a blurb
>saying
>that this was the battle in which he died.
I was upset, until I read the A4 story devoted to his death on the adjacent
page to his stats :-)
It's definatly sad, not only was he THE space marine, he's the only character
I've ever known to have an evolving storyline (as far as I know);
First were his 'Golden Boy' days as a normal SM, which ended with his
unfortuate encounter with a weirdboy in the first ever battle report (also
reprinted in the battles book), which left him scarred and a little pissed off,
as shown in his second incarnation in the AoD codex.
Then came the battle hungry irrational V3 Tycho as he got increasingly
desperate to take his revenge on the orcs, and finally he loses it totally and
is induced into the death company, and goes of to meet his maker (or in this
case BE his maker)
Oh well, on it's own it was quite a good way for him to go, however like other
people here, the draw gives the whole affair a bad taste, the only way GW could
redeem themselves now is by having the High Lords writing of the planet, and
ordering it Virus Bombed, preferably without warning (and therefore with any
survivors on both sides not in armour having a really bad day - What, I think
we need a bit more darkness in the fluff :-))
The Invisible Duck
Jimi
> another "joke", aimed at "Ragnarok"?
Although its not as crap as 'Hunt for the Red Orktober'
Jimi
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La Grief
Brad Hann <bh...@starway.net.au.au> wrote in message
news:39ee4076...@bne-csvr.qld.hotkey.net.au...
| >>>The
| >>>result was a draw so they're still fighting over the planet
| >>
| >>things rigged
| >
| >the totalled warzone results on the Armageddon page.
|
| Is that including the BfG results? IIRC the Orks were being utterly
| pulverised in orbit. With no reinforcements getting through, it would
| only be a matter of time before those on the surface were eradicated.
60% vs 40% is hardly a pulverising...
--
-Lee
Ravening Hordes - http://go.to/ravening-hordes/
Fight against Freeserve
http://www.ridhughz.demon.co.uk/freeserve/
Matthew Sprange
Well, not you. It was going to be rigged, remember?
Matthew
La Grief
Erik Setzer <rag...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:39eed386...@news.jacksonville.net...
| On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 03:03:42 +0100, "Vampy"
| exclaimed:
|
| >>You bastard. Why couldn't you kill Ragnar Blackmane, Logan Grimnar,
| >Chaplain
| >>Xavier, one of the Dark Angels - anyone who isn't GW's oldest named SM
| >>character?
| >
| >decent mini. Why oh why couldn't it have been L******s?
|
Kids love L******s...every new blood angels army here has a L******s...can you
FEEL my horror?
Matthew Sprange
> Asmodai be killed off? Can you picture *any* DA player suggesting
> something like that?
Erik, don't ever again suggest that I would let something like that get in
the way of a decent bit of fluff. If Asmodai had been in the centre of
things, he would have been the one to buy it.
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
Well now, that really isn't any of your concern, Erik.
> Tycho was my favorite BA character, and the only one with any real
Reason enough to do it.
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
> finally let Yarrick or Ghazghkull die off? *That* would have made it
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
a
> decent mini. Why oh why couldn't it have been L******s?
Because you _don't_ like him :)
Matthew
Matthew Sprange
Gee, thanks.
> Killing Tycho would only give an "epic" feel if the campaign had a
> clear winner. Being a draw was a big enough upset. Killing off one
Well, maybe not.
Armageddon has now become a semi-permanent setting in the 40k universe and I
don't think you will just see it left to lie. I have one or two ideas
myself, but I have to talk to the big guys about them - however, this
'setting' idea you will see more of - more news as and when.
> at what happened and please explain to me some way I could be wrong
> here. I'm not being sarcastic, I am *begging* you to prove me wrong
> here.
Prove you wrong? I would dearly love to, Erik, you know that. But have you
made a salient point yet?
Matthew
La Grief
Matthew Sprange <alt...@clara.net> wrote in message
news:SpGH5.1260$p03.2...@nnrp4.clara.net...
| > Tycho was my favorite BA character, and the only one with any real
|
| Reason enough to do it.
Not particularly. The effect was actually lost on everyone except our resident BA
player. the only reason he didn't like it was because he had survived so much
before, why should he die on Armageddon? everyone else was like..."So?"
the fact he died and it meant nothing to any outcome meant that his death was
really....pointless.
Kaos Lord
I don't remember any reference to the DA even being near Armageddon during
the battle...and as for Ghazghkull & Yarrick, I think they slipped of
together for a beer and to talk old times...
--
Kaos
a ROGUE trader
Big Al
>
> On 19 Oct 2000 12:57:13 GMT, pbo...@aol.com (P Bowles) drank a glass
> of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>
> >>clear winner.
> >
> >definitely not Ragna-Ork).
>
>
> Who came up with that "Ragna-Ork" anyway? Is that supposed to be
> another "joke", aimed at "Ragnarok"?
No, of course not.
--
Big Al, ask a stupid question
Let's all be fucking retarded
http://www.bastardsquad.org
Email: webm...@bastardsquad.org
"I luv KoRn to, they make cool music 2,
right 4 me & my stoopid friends."
- Tobias Reinold r.g.m.w. 17/10
Moramarth
<pbo...@aol.com> writes
>
Had a quick shufti at the lad in the shop's copy....
>
>DOGS OF WAR - ARMY FOR HIRE
>
>The units (together with my suggestions about which units to represent them)
>are:
>
>CORE UNITS
>
>Pikemen (Leopold's Leopard Company, Alcatini Fellowship, Ricco's Republican
>Guard, Pizzaro's Lost Legion)
All those pikemen people converted from the Empire regiments box?
>
>
>Heavy Cavalry (Voland's Venators, any human knight with a lance, though
>Bretonnians may take some explaining).
Kislevite Winged Lancers get a specific mention.
>
>Light Cavalry (Al Muktar's Desert Dogs, Mounted Squires with spears, possibly
>Mounted Chaos Marauders).
And again Kislevites are mentioned.
>
>SPECIAL UNITS
>
>Ogres (Golfag's Ogres, Ogres)
>
>Dwarfs (Imperial Dwarfs, Dwarf Clansmen, Dwarf Hammerers, Dwarf Longbeards,
>Dwarf Ironbreakers, Dwarf Crossbowmen).
Always knew that Drastic Plastic/Fantasy Regiments stuff would come into
its own....
>
>Norse Marauders (Beorg's Bearmen, possibly Chaos Marauders).
The old "Foundry" Vikings (not the new range due out soon) are ex-
Citadel and therefore (as someone pointed out on another thread)
arguably usable...
>
>0-1 Paymaster's Bodyguard (Empire Soldiers, Men at Arms with halberds, old
>Empire Footsoldiers with halberds).
New plastic Militia box, for this and almost anything else on foot...
>
>RARE UNITS
>
>Cannon (Bronzino's Galloper Guns, any small cannon)
>
>Halfling Hot Pot (Sorry, drawing a blank here...)
The one the Empire can't have any more?
>
>I am happy with these generic ones because it gives players a lot of room for
>customising their own regiments and explaining why they look the way they do
>(those Duellist Witch Hunters, for instance), and it allows players to dig out
>those most appropriate of mercenary models - the Tilean Crossbowmen from the
>old Empire range. Next month will apparently see the return of the Regiments of
>Renown and special characters.
>
>Overall, the DoW list is what people who've been complaining about the absence
>of certain units from the Empire army book have been looking for - a human-led
>army with an assortment of troops (though all core units are human). It looks
>fair, if not especially strong then not weak either.
An improvised home for most of the stuff Empire players can't use for
Empire any more, and a quick response to all the pissed-off DOW players
who had heard they WEREN'T getting their own army book for v6...
>
Cheers.
--
Moramarth
smithdoerr
incrdbil <incr...@nospam.flinthills.com> wrote in message
news:39ef10f8...@usenet.flinthills.com...
> On 19 Oct 2000 12:57:13 GMT, pbo...@aol.com (P Bowles) wrote:
>
> >>Killing Tycho would only give an "epic" feel if the campaign had a
> >>clear winner.
> >
> >I completely agree. Twice in one day? The end of the world is nigh (but
> >definitely not Ragna-Ork).
> >
> worthless cause. If GW was oign to kill off a named character, there
> should have been some impact from it. Either the resutl of a Imperial
> Loss, or buying a victory..but a draw? Yawn.
It would have been better if they had Yarrik and Ghazghull kill each other
off in personal combat. The state of demoralization and confusion of both
sides at the loss of their leader would make the "draw" more plausible.
--
- smithdoerr
Download the free Warhammer 40k-Wound Calculator at:
http://www.geocities.com/smithdoerr/40k/WoundCalculator.html
Robert Williams
Daniel Bond wrote in message <8sl659$bvi$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>hold on - does that mean the stores aren't going to let us use our Tycho
>models anymore as him because he's "Dead"
Of course not. Some GW special chracters are dead, like MAcarius, Nork Deddog,
som of the Last Chancers, etc. There is such a thing as battles fought before
said chracter died, you know.
Rob
Robert Williams
>really....pointless.
It was a bit. It would have been *so* much better if he not died killing randon
orks, but had instead died taking down the weirdboy that disfigured him.
Rob
incrdbil
maybe it was..but just not in the way some people expected....
P Bowles
theinvis...@aol.com (TheInvisibleDuck) writes:
>> you wait to read about it in WD you'll feel cheated - it just has a
>>stat line and rules representing "Tycho at Hive Tempestora" and a blurb
>>saying
>>that this was the battle in which he died.
>
>I was upset, until I read the A4 story devoted to his death on the adjacent
>page to his stats :-)
>
>It's definatly sad, not only was he THE space marine, he's the only character
>I've ever known to have an evolving storyline (as far as I know);
Well, to an extent Ghazghkull and Yarrick themselves also had that, and so did
Karhedron (I think that's the name), an Iyanden Warlock who appeared in the
first Craftworld fluff pieces and later in a few battle reports. The last time
we saw him, he was a Farseer's apprentice in Codex: Eldar. Several WFB
characters develop over time, since GW has always been less reluctant to move
the WFB storyline forward than the 40K one (Otto Schepke actually has my
attention at the moment after his heroic performance and close to miraculous
survival on his second outing, as well as his unbroken success record).
Philip Bowles
P Bowles
<alt...@clara.net> writes:
>Well, maybe not.
>
>Armageddon has now become a semi-permanent setting in the 40k universe and I
>don't think you will just see it left to lie.
I hope you're right, but I suspect you're being optimistic - I love the
Armageddon setting but leaving it permanently at war seems to be GW's way of
getting rid of it - it won't turn up as a major Imperial planet in the sector
anymore as it would following an Imperial victory, and since the Orks haven't
taken it they avoid having the Imperium try to get it back. What's more, it's
clear from the outcome that GW's interest in Armageddon extends only so far as
the central characters - they made a special effort to get them off a planet
they're fed up with just so they could be used again without having to bring
Armageddon itself back.
Philip Bowles
Old Bear
>
> >
> (though I have no objection
> >to Kruellagh the Vile).
> >
> at least they didn't paint her white with black spots all over....
I bet they thought about it...
--
Old Bear, Duke of Blackpool
Bearer of CoJ Green Hat #3
Official RGMW Master Baiter
"Live long and prosper, captain" - Leonard Nimmoy
"Eat Kirk fist, pointy-eared twat!" - William Shatner
Old Bear
"John L. Martin" <jlma...@nconnect.net> wrote in message
news:39ede...@windy.powercom.net...
> "P Bowles" <pbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20001018122311...@nso-bd.aol.com...
>
> > - Bretonnia may not hire Dogs of War.
> ARRRGGGHHH! Must...control...fist...of...death!
>
> Bret's can hire NO DoW? Period? I rather liked pikemen in my main battle
> line along with crossbows. It seemed so, medieval.
>
> Not hiring cannons I could see...but this?
>
> A pox on Games Workshop!
And with no army book for the foreseeable future...bad time to eat Frogs'
Legs.
Old Bear
> In article <39ede...@windy.powercom.net>, "John L. Martin"
> <jlma...@nconnect.net> writes:
>
> >> - Bretonnia may not hire Dogs of War.
> >ARRRGGGHHH! Must...control...fist...of...death!
> >
> >Bret's can hire NO DoW? Period? I rather liked pikemen in my main
battle
> >line along with crossbows. It seemed so, medieval.
> >
> >Not hiring cannons I could see...but this?
> >
> >A pox on Games Workshop!
>
of
> the best it ever priduced, models you wouldn't be ashamed to use in
historical
> games and with a genuinely Arthurian feel rather than the fairy tale
knights
> with silly hats we have now.
Fuck them, says I. May as well wait for a nice Dark Ages Albion army to show
up. Ought to be able to buy the army book with my first week's pension...
Old Bear
"Jakearon" <jake...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20001018143656...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
> >The
> >result was a draw so they're still fighting over the planet
>
> how can it be a draw? the orks have been losing the entire campaign. the
damn
> things rigged
For those that remember at the end of the campaign I opined that it was a
draw. With only a 6% spread on victories it couldn't be much else. I shall
now sit here being smug.
Old Bear
"Jakearon" <jake...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
> > was hoping for a Black Crusade...you know--chaos vs the
> >Imperium--the main thrust of the entire 40k story?
>
> i heard the next campign would ty in with a codex called horus heresy,
along
> the lines of srmageddon, with the black legion, worldeaters, rouge guard
and a
> space marine army, don't know which one though
That codex is way down the road, although it is apparently coming. The 'Nids
up next.
Old Bear
> In article <8sl748$kk2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, vermillian
<vermi...@my-deja.com>
> writes:
>
> >2) Been reading rumours off of Portent.net again, have you? *tsk*
>
> Portent claims the next campaign will be a Dark Elf invasion of Ulthuan.
The result of which will be a draw. Remember - you heard it here first.
Portent my arse!
Old Bear
> >depart?
> >
> >What a way to end a campaign with a whimper.
>
> That is a big injustice to the players, IMHO. There were thousands of
> gamers all excited over making a big impact in the 40k universe, and
> it was just dumped. It makes one wonder: what was the point of
> playing in the campaign?
I confess that I knew Tycho was going to get it - hence my suggestion that
he be run over by a Land Raider in the BA carpark. Guess they didn't like
that idea...
Personally I'd have liked to see yarrick go down fighting in the big WD
battle report game, and Ghazkull done to death by his subordinates after
another failure. Oh, and Tycho run over by a Land Speeder...
Old Bear
>
> >
> >Is that including the BfG results? IIRC the Orks were being utterly
> >pulverised in orbit. With no reinforcements getting through, it would
> >only be a matter of time before those on the surface were eradicated.
> >
>
> the atatckers failing to break even, plus the BFG losses, do indded
> point out that the Imperials hweld on, and that the ORks ill slowly be
> squeezed off. The mopping up will be prolonged..but caling it an out
> and out draw?
>
> So, a draw may have the the rigged result after all...
Either way, Ghazkull should have been consigned to history.
Old Bear
> On 19 Oct 2000 08:52:01 GMT, pbo...@aol.com (P Bowles) drank a glass
> of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>
> >>point out that the Imperials hweld on, and that the ORks ill slowly be
> >>squeezed off. The mopping up will be prolonged..but caling it an out
> >>and out draw?
> >
> >Imperials) hoping to keep the war going ad infinitum - I can't help
feeling
> >that the worst way to end a campaign is to end it 'offscreen' as it were,
> >leaving players feeling cheated. I actually WANTED the Imperium to win...
>
> I actually wanted the Orks to win, but I feel more disappointed by a
> "draw" than an Imperial win. It means this was basically all for
> nought.
Even making it a draw, they could have made a greater drama out of the whole
business. Kill Ghazkull now, I say!
Old Bear
> > STOP! wtf? Tycho dead? Nooooooooooooooooo!!!
> >
> > C'mon don't leave me hanging like this; is it one of those 'presumed
dead'
> that
> > Ghazgull seems to get every 5 minutes, or it it <gulp> terminal?
>
> Something we discussed during Armageddon - Paul said he wanted to get the
> 'epic' feel of Armageddon across to people. I suggested there was only
one
> way to do that properly and that Tycho was a good target :)
>
> Sorry Blood Angels guys - but I am a Flesh Tearer, you know?
Huh! didn't go for my Run Over By a Land Raider gag though, did you?
Old Bear
> > You bastard. Why couldn't you kill Ragnar Blackmane, Logan Grimnar,
> Chaplain
> > Xavier, one of the Dark Angels - anyone who isn't GW's oldest named SM
> > character?
>
> Because, otherwise, it just would not have an effect :)
>
> Call it the Kosh-Factor. . .
You could have killed Ghazkull and called it the 'Make Ian Happy
Factor'..;>)
Old Bear
> >Killing Tycho would only give an "epic" feel if the campaign had a
> >clear winner.
>
> I completely agree. Twice in one day? The end of the world is nigh (but
> definitely not Ragna-Ork).
Fuck! I *think* I might nearly agree with him as well. Must get
reprogrammed...
Old Bear
"smithdoerr" <smith...@NOSPAMPLEASEpipeline.com> wrote in message
news:8snis1$vql$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
> > On 19 Oct 2000 12:57:13 GMT, pbo...@aol.com (P Bowles) wrote:
> >
> > >>clear winner.
> > >
> > >I completely agree. Twice in one day? The end of the world is nigh (but
> > >definitely not Ragna-Ork).
> > >
> > worthless cause. If GW was oign to kill off a named character, there
> > should have been some impact from it. Either the resutl of a Imperial
> > Loss, or buying a victory..but a draw? Yawn.
>
> It would have been better if they had Yarrik and Ghazghull kill each other
> off in personal combat. The state of demoralization and confusion of both
> sides at the loss of their leader would make the "draw" more plausible.
That's not a half-bad suggestion.
vermillian
pbo...@aol.com (P Bowles) wrote:
> In article <8sl6qs$k8k$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, vermillian <
vermi...@my-deja.com>
> writes:
> Again, they'll be a Regiment of Renown.
Natch, but some of us are impatient, and we like using figs we
have NOW, damnit, NOW! :P
--
~Screaming Vermillian
ScreamVermillian on AIM
"They grow old and depressed while children starve to death.
Elderly have one last gift for us 'fore they pass.
He had use. Now it's done. Cook the old. Feed the young."
~Deadly Toothpase - Eat Them
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
incrdbil
>I'd like Matt to spill the beans on what those so-called "contingency
>plans" were. After all, it isn't like it makes any difference now...
>
I think draw was the plan now, from the get go. Why they can't call a
marginal victory just that kinda points it out.
Brad Hann
>>>"draw" than an Imperial win.
>>
>>evict the Orks if they did win (virus bombs etc.)? I think I'd have preferred
>>any of them to this lacklustre conclusion.
>
>I would rather have seen it rigged than to see it all come down to
>*nothing*. Heck, if it's a draw why not just pull out and virus bomb
>the planet? It won't hurt the industry, and as I understand it all
>the citizens are dead anyway, between the Marines and the Orks...
I'd like Matt to spill the beans on what those so-called "contingency
plans" were. After all, it isn't like it makes any difference now...
Brad
--
To mail me, you will need to remove one of the .au's from my address.
If you can't figure out which one, I probably don't want to hear from you.
Brad Hann
>unfortuate encounter with a weirdboy in the first ever battle report (also
>reprinted in the battles book)
First ever battle report? This was the report when V2 was first
released, right? Well I can assure you that there was at least one
40K battle report before then. In WD sometime in the 140s there was a
Rogue Trader batrep between BA (possibly with Tycho, can't remember)
and the Alaitoc craftworld.
Erik Setzer
<i...@ibarstow.freeserve.co.uk> drank a glass of cyanide Koolaid and
exclaimed:
>> That is a big injustice to the players, IMHO. There were thousands of
>> gamers all excited over making a big impact in the 40k universe, and
>> it was just dumped. It makes one wonder: what was the point of
>> playing in the campaign?
>
>I confess that I knew Tycho was going to get it - hence my suggestion that
>he be run over by a Land Raider in the BA carpark. Guess they didn't like
>that idea...
Probably not. Sounds sort of like the Rhino Taxi Service.
"(Whistle) Hey you, Marine! Take me and my squad to that hill over
there!"
Still, I think his death is just plain wrong. Why not kill Xavier or
someone else instead?
>Personally I'd have liked to see yarrick go down fighting in the big WD
>battle report game, and Ghazkull done to death by his subordinates after
>another failure.
My thoughts exactly for Yarrick. But for Ghazghkull, the best way for
him to go down if you think he really did fail in the eyes of the Orks
is to have him gradually fade into obscurity. You know... the
greatest Ork Warlord ever, forgotten because he failed. That would be
Ghazghkull's biggest failure.
> Oh, and Tycho run over by a Land Speeder...
"Tycho got run over by a Speeder, heading home from Arm3 Christmas
Eve...
Now you may say there's no such thing as a draw, but as for me and
Gavin, we believe......."
Urgh. Hideous.
------------------------------------------------------------
The strong are strongest alone.
In an hour of Darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Insanity look to the madman to show the way.
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------------------------------------------------------------
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Erik Setzer
drank a glass of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>>I would rather have seen it rigged than to see it all come down to
>>*nothing*. Heck, if it's a draw why not just pull out and virus bomb
>>the planet? It won't hurt the industry, and as I understand it all
>>the citizens are dead anyway, between the Marines and the Orks...
>
>I'd like Matt to spill the beans on what those so-called "contingency
>plans" were. After all, it isn't like it makes any difference now...
Heck, even I'd like to see these contingency plans he claims were in
place. To me it looks like they tried too hard not to disappoint any
certain group of gamers, and managed to instead disappoint every group
of gamers.
-Erik
Erik Setzer
<i...@ibarstow.freeserve.co.uk> drank a glass of cyanide Koolaid and
exclaimed:
>> I actually wanted the Orks to win, but I feel more disappointed by a
>> "draw" than an Imperial win. It means this was basically all for
>> nought.
>
>Even making it a draw, they could have made a greater drama out of the whole
>business. Kill Ghazkull now, I say!
And Yarrick, too!
Erik Setzer
(incrdbil) drank a glass of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>>According to WD, more Orks are pouring into the sector (along with more
>>Imperials) hoping to keep the war going ad infinitum - I can't help feeling
>>that the worst way to end a campaign is to end it 'offscreen' as it were,
>
>so, we can safely say thatA3 realyl has no worthwhile ending, and
>players games wound up creating a big pathetic non-event. yee-ha.
Yeah, that about sums it up.
Erik Setzer
drank a glass of cyanide Koolaid and exclaimed:
>| Is that including the BfG results? IIRC the Orks were being utterly
>| pulverised in orbit. With no reinforcements getting through, it would
>| only be a matter of time before those on the surface were eradicated.
>
>60% vs 40% is hardly a pulverising...
From what I've seen and heard, most Ork BFG players didn't even know
about the BFG fighting and where to send results, which hurt the Orks
in that area.