Chaos Space Marine Bikers Q's
David P.
general. Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.
1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before. Can a
Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon combo to
get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the bike. (As per
the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
2. The Chaos Bikes have the option of having bike mounted Plasma Guns.
These guns obviously get the full range bonus that being bike mounted gives,
but are they also exempt from the over heating rules (as per plasma weapons
being mounted on vehicles)? Logic would say yes, but is this written down
anywhere?
3. In the Chaos codex, it lists the Bikes as being for Independent
Characters only, but then in the wargear section at the back, it says they
can be taken by a squad as long as the whole squad has them. Which is
correct? Would you be able to take a Chaos lord and retinue, all upgraded
to champs and all given bikes?
4. If you have a Chaos Lord with a Retinue of Plague Marine champions, all
with Marks of nurgle and all on bikes.. (T7). Does the Chaos Lord benefit
from the Fearless rule?
5. Does the mark of Nurgle count when you are calculating if a character is
instantly killed by a weapon with strength equal to double its toughness?
Or is the Mark just like the bike bonus, and isn't counted.
Thank you, in anticipation of your assistance.
David P.
Blue Raja
I can't answer all of these since I haven't gotten my Codex:CSM yet, but
I'll give some a go...
>Hi, I've got a few questions about Space Marine bikers, and bikes in
>general. Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before. Can
a
>Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon combo
to
>get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the bike. (As per
>the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
I checked the rulebook and Codex:SM and neither says that you can't get the
+1 attack bonus for 2 ccws.
>2. The Chaos Bikes have the option of having bike mounted Plasma Guns.
>These guns obviously get the full range bonus that being bike mounted
gives,
>but are they also exempt from the over heating rules (as per plasma weapons
>being mounted on vehicles)? Logic would say yes, but is this written down
>anywhere?
Unless it's written down then I'd say that the guns can still overheat.
Remember that a bike is basically a marine with +1 toughness, so you'd have
to test as normal (think of it spilling plasma onto the engine block or
something).
>4. If you have a Chaos Lord with a Retinue of Plague Marine champions, all
>with Marks of nurgle and all on bikes.. (T7). Does the Chaos Lord benefit
>from the Fearless rule?
IIRC no, as he doesn't have the ability himself.
>5. Does the mark of Nurgle count when you are calculating if a character
is
>instantly killed by a weapon with strength equal to double its toughness?
>Or is the Mark just like the bike bonus, and isn't counted.
I believe this one was covered a little while ago. From what I recall, Mark
of Nurgle increases toughness for insta-kills, but bikes don't. Can't
remember if there was a sensible reason for this, it could be one of those
"Eldar don't have armour > 12 because..." rules.
Hope that helps.
--
The Blue Raja
"Oh, and fuck you." - Fog
Daniel Bond
"David P." <delr...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:JM9L6.4804$ZJ.1...@ozemail.com.au...
> Hi, I've got a few questions about Space Marine bikers, and bikes in
> general. Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> 1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before. Can
a
> Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon combo
to
> get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the bike. (As
per
> the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
>
> 2. The Chaos Bikes have the option of having bike mounted Plasma Guns.
> These guns obviously get the full range bonus that being bike mounted
gives,
> but are they also exempt from the over heating rules (as per plasma
weapons
> being mounted on vehicles)? Logic would say yes, but is this written down
> anywhere?
>
> 3. In the Chaos codex, it lists the Bikes as being for Independent
> Characters only, but then in the wargear section at the back, it says they
> can be taken by a squad as long as the whole squad has them. Which is
> correct? Would you be able to take a Chaos lord and retinue, all upgraded
> to champs and all given bikes?
>
> 4. If you have a Chaos Lord with a Retinue of Plague Marine champions, all
> with Marks of nurgle and all on bikes.. (T7). Does the Chaos Lord benefit
> from the Fearless rule?
>
> 5. Does the mark of Nurgle count when you are calculating if a character
is
> instantly killed by a weapon with strength equal to double its toughness?
> Or is the Mark just like the bike bonus, and isn't counted.
Daniel Bond
DarkTear
"David P." <delr...@ozemail.com.au> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:JM9L6.4804$ZJ.1...@ozemail.com.au...
> Hi, I've got a few questions about Space Marine bikers, and bikes in
> general. Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> 1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before. Can
a
> Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon combo
to
> get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the bike. (As
per
> the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
>
No, they can't use a CCW and a pistol to get an extra attack. They still
need one hand to ride the bike, so they can use just one weapon. This isnt
written on the Codex, but it is written in a recent WD (cant remember its
number..and also, I've got the italian WD which has a different system of
numbering)..check it out. After all, there is no sense in saying that a
normal Marine needs a hand to ride the bike, while a Chaos Marine doesnt (as
long as they have got 2 arms, at least..).
> 2. The Chaos Bikes have the option of having bike mounted Plasma Guns.
> These guns obviously get the full range bonus that being bike mounted
gives,
> but are they also exempt from the over heating rules (as per plasma
weapons
> being mounted on vehicles)? Logic would say yes, but is this written down
> anywhere?
>
I think bikers suffer the same special rules for plasma weapons as any other
infantry model. After all, they're not vehicles nor walkers.
> 3. In the Chaos codex, it lists the Bikes as being for Independent
> Characters only, but then in the wargear section at the back, it says they
> can be taken by a squad as long as the whole squad has them. Which is
> correct? Would you be able to take a Chaos lord and retinue, all upgraded
> to champs and all given bikes?
>
Same as before, it was clarified on a WD (probably still the same...i
remember a "Chaos FAQ" or something like that). A character can have a bike,
but his retinue can't. So, simply u can't have a retinue for a bike-equipped
character. Saying he can have a bike only if his followers also have one
should be a way to make this clearer, in game designer's opinion..
> 4. If you have a Chaos Lord with a Retinue of Plague Marine champions, all
> with Marks of nurgle and all on bikes.. (T7). Does the Chaos Lord benefit
> from the Fearless rule?
>
See before, u cant do this. Anyway, the Lord wouldnt benefit from that rule.
> 5. Does the mark of Nurgle count when you are calculating if a character
is
> instantly killed by a weapon with strength equal to double its toughness?
> Or is the Mark just like the bike bonus, and isn't counted.
>
I think the mark counts as really increasing the character's T. So, it
counts against instant kill too.
--
DarkTear
---Sith indipendente----
---IHGGer # 1008---
---IHGGDNDer # 18---
ICQ# 8760577
"No! Try not!
Do. Or do not.
There is no try."
Erik Connell
DarkTear <zac...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:WqbL6.10273$RX4.6...@news.infostrada.it...
>
> "David P." <delr...@ozemail.com.au> ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:JM9L6.4804$ZJ.1...@ozemail.com.au...
> > Hi, I've got a few questions about Space Marine bikers, and bikes in
> > general. Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > 1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before.
Can
> a
> > Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon
combo
> to
> > get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the bike. (As
> per
> > the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
> >
>
> No, they can't use a CCW and a pistol to get an extra attack. They still
> need one hand to ride the bike, so they can use just one weapon. This isnt
> written on the Codex, but it is written in a recent WD (cant remember its
> number..and also, I've got the italian WD which has a different system of
> numbering)..check it out. After all, there is no sense in saying that a
> normal Marine needs a hand to ride the bike, while a Chaos Marine doesnt
(as
> long as they have got 2 arms, at least..).
>
So why can a SM sargent on a bike buy a CCW for +1 pt?
Erik C
LuckyStryke
Erik Connell <conn...@ses.curtin.edu.au> wrote in message
news:3afd608b$0$22...@echo-01.iinet.net.au...
> So why can a SM sargent on a bike buy a CCW for +1 pt?
>
> Erik C
For WYSIWYG purposes and to differentiate the sargeant
from every other goon in the squad. Read the QA on the GW
website.
--
LuckyStryke
Remember an indictment is not a conviction.
"Thanks again Ranter, you useless fuck."-Mr_BoJangles
-No offense Ranter. It just gave me the giggles.
Wearer of Green Hat #460. Modified to hold an extra pack of cigarettes
and a converted Sister of Battle with Heavy Flamer to light them.
Robert Reynolds
> general. Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> 1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before. Can
a
> Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon combo
to
> get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the bike. (As
per
> the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
> 2. The Chaos Bikes have the option of having bike mounted Plasma Guns.
> These guns obviously get the full range bonus that being bike mounted
gives,
> but are they also exempt from the over heating rules (as per plasma
weapons
> being mounted on vehicles)? Logic would say yes, but is this written down
> anywhere?
> 3. In the Chaos codex, it lists the Bikes as being for Independent
> Characters only, but then in the wargear section at the back, it says they
> can be taken by a squad as long as the whole squad has them. Which is
> correct? Would you be able to take a Chaos lord and retinue, all upgraded
> to champs and all given bikes?
> 4. If you have a Chaos Lord with a Retinue of Plague Marine champions, all
> with Marks of nurgle and all on bikes.. (T7). Does the Chaos Lord benefit
> from the Fearless rule?
> 5. Does the mark of Nurgle count when you are calculating if a chacter is
> instantly killed by a weapon with strength equal to double its toughness?
> Or is the Mark just like the bike bonus, and isn't counted.
>
> Thank you, in anticipation of your assistance.
--
Yes, your threat is pretty pointless here. It's a lot like threatening to
start
a house fire in hell...
`Jimbo
Proud Member of the Chaos Space Marine Legions. Bringing Death to a star
system near you since 1998.
Feel That every one should read it at least once!
http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
>
>
>
Keith Hann
> general. Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.
Since you've received several contradictory answers already, I've added
after my reply where my answers came from. You can look it up yourself if
you can find a copy.
> 1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before. Can
a
> Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon
> combo to get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the
bike.
> (As per the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
This rule applies only to Reaver Jetbikes. Only the highly advanced Dark
Eldar have to worry about actually piloting bikes, apparently. (Source: GW
Online FAQ)
> 2. The Chaos Bikes have the option of having bike mounted Plasma Guns.
> These guns obviously get the full range bonus that being bike mounted
gives,
> but are they also exempt from the over heating rules (as per plasma
weapons
> being mounted on vehicles)? Logic would say yes, but is this written down
> anywhere?
AFAIK, it has never been stated anywhere that bikers are immune to the 'Get
Hot!' rule.
> 3. In the Chaos codex, it lists the Bikes as being for Independent
> Characters only, but then in the wargear section at the back, it says they
> can be taken by a squad as long as the whole squad has them. Which is
> correct? Would you be able to take a Chaos lord and retinue, all upgraded
> to champs and all given bikes?
Can't help you on this one.
> 4. If you have a Chaos Lord with a Retinue of Plague Marine champions, all
> with Marks of nurgle and all on bikes.. (T7). Does the Chaos Lord benefit
> from the Fearless rule?
The leader of a squad never benefits from the abilites of his squad if the
leader does not have them himself. If a leader who can't infiltrate is with
a squad that can, the whole squad cannot infiltrate, etc. (Source: GW
Online FAQ)
> 5. Does the mark of Nurgle count when you are calculating if a character
is
> instantly killed by a weapon with strength equal to double its toughness?
> Or is the Mark just like the bike bonus, and isn't counted.
Any Toughness increase is never figured in for insta-kill. (Source: GW
Online FAQ)
> Thank you, in anticipation of your assistance.
------
In the grim darkness of the far future there are only rules conflicts.
Keith Hann
Robert Williams
--
Inquisitor e-group - GW_Inquisit...@yahoogroups.com
Daniel Bond wrote in message <9djeud$tsh$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>
>"David P." <delr...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
>news:JM9L6.4804$ZJ.1...@ozemail.com.au...
>> Hi, I've got a few questions about Space Marine bikers, and bikes in
>> general. Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> 1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before. Can
>a
>> Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon combo
>to
>> get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the bike. (As
>per
>> the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
>No you can't - the rider has to hang onto the bike somehow
That's simply not the case. Take for example, space marine bike sergeants.
They come with a bolt pistol as standard, and have an option to take a CCW for
one point.
Jacob Aron
>>> general. Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> 1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before. Can
>>a
>>> Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon combo
>>to
>>> get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the bike. (As
>>per
>>> the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
>>No you can't - the rider has to hang onto the bike somehow
>
>That's simply not the case. Take for example, space marine bike sergeants.
>They come with a bolt pistol as standard, and have an option to take a CCW
>for
>one point.
>
But can't use both according to the White Scars army list
++++++++++++
Jacob - Bearer of Black and White Hat #1 and *RGMW Merit Badge [Gold]*
"Operatives working at rear"
ICQ#: 112915166
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/fluff40k
smithdoerr
Jacob Aron <jake...@aol.comspamspam> wrote in message
news:20010512152401...@ng-cv1.aol.com...
> >>> Hi, I've got a few questions about Space Marine bikers, and bikes in
> >>> general. Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.
> >>>
> >>> 1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before.
Can
> >>a
> >>> Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon
combo
> >>to
> >>> get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the bike.
(As
> >>per
> >>> the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
> >>No you can't - the rider has to hang onto the bike somehow
> >
> >That's simply not the case. Take for example, space marine bike
sergeants.
> >They come with a bolt pistol as standard, and have an option to take a
CCW
> >for
> >one point.
> >
>
> But can't use both according to the White Scars army list
Sounds like another "rules clarification". I haven't heard of anyone since
3rd ed was released playing that space marines sarges with bolt pistol/ccw
don't get an extra attack.
--
- smithdoerr
Download the free Warhammer 40k-Wound Calculator ver1.01 at:
http://www.geocities.com/smithdoerr/40k/WoundCalculator.html
David P.
> after my reply where my answers came from. You can look it up yourself if
> you can find a copy.
Yes, I think it's going 50-50 for each of the answers so far. :)
> > 1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before.
Can
> a
> > Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon
> > combo to get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the
> bike.
> > (As per the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
>
> This rule applies only to Reaver Jetbikes. Only the highly advanced Dark
> Eldar have to worry about actually piloting bikes, apparently. (Source:
GW
> Online FAQ)
Yes, this is what I figured. So they do get the +1 Attack. (For example,
for having a pair of Lightning Claws)
> > 2. The Chaos Bikes have the option of having bike mounted Plasma Guns.
> > These guns obviously get the full range bonus that being bike mounted
> gives,
> > but are they also exempt from the over heating rules (as per plasma
> weapons
> > being mounted on vehicles)? Logic would say yes, but is this written
down
> > anywhere?
>
> AFAIK, it has never been stated anywhere that bikers are immune to the
'Get
> Hot!' rule.
However, I will have to disagree with you here. These are not guns being
held by the riders, but mounted on a bike. If you think about it logically,
they are not holding them, so they don't care if they get hot. Also they
are mounted on the front of the bike, and therefore get quite a bit of air
cooling, so are less likely to overheat :) So I think i'll play it that
they can't over-heat. :) (Because they are not hand-held, but mounted on a
vehicle - Technically)
> > 3. In the Chaos codex, it lists the Bikes as being for Independent
> > Characters only, but then in the wargear section at the back, it says
they
> > can be taken by a squad as long as the whole squad has them. Which is
> > correct? Would you be able to take a Chaos lord and retinue, all
upgraded
> > to champs and all given bikes?
>
> Can't help you on this one.
I think from a second reading of these rules you can. The independant
character bizzo in the wargear section probably only refers to the fact that
you can't have one guy in a squad (an Asp Champ for eg) on a bike just to
get the T bonus. However, you can have a whole squad mounted on them as
long as you can buy them for the whole squad. (I.e. A command squad that
can all be upgraded to Champs). However, I don't think i'll use this
particular tactic. To get a 5 man squad of Plague Marine champions on bikes
with Mark of Nurgles and Power fists costs 600 points, not including the
champion himself. :(
> > 4. If you have a Chaos Lord with a Retinue of Plague Marine champions,
all
> > with Marks of nurgle and all on bikes.. (T7). Does the Chaos Lord
benefit
> > from the Fearless rule?
>
> The leader of a squad never benefits from the abilites of his squad if the
> leader does not have them himself. If a leader who can't infiltrate is
with
> a squad that can, the whole squad cannot infiltrate, etc. (Source: GW
> Online FAQ)
Fair enough. What happens then when the squad is in combat. Do you need to
take a morale check just for the HQ guy? And if he flees, the rest of the
squad stays in combat... What about unit cohesion and rallying etc?
> > 5. Does the mark of Nurgle count when you are calculating if a
character
> is
> > instantly killed by a weapon with strength equal to double its
toughness?
> > Or is the Mark just like the bike bonus, and isn't counted.
>
> Any Toughness increase is never figured in for insta-kill. (Source: GW
> Online FAQ)
D'oh!
LuckyStryke
(Because they are not hand-held, but mounted on a
> vehicle - Technically)
You must remember bikes follow rules for troops not vehicles.
Only vehicle mounted plasma does not overheat. A bike is not
a vehicle.
> Fair enough. What happens then when the squad is in combat. Do you need
to
> take a morale check just for the HQ guy? And if he flees, the rest of the
> squad stays in combat... What about unit cohesion and rallying etc?
As it reads in the FAQ you would use the rules for the character. If he
fails his Ld roll then the entire unit falls back with him and must remain
with him until he rallies. If the Character flees then everyone flees.
Erik Connell
real, even GW aren' that crazy yet.
Erik C
LuckyStryke <fba...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:0xdL6.63265$qv3.24...@nnrp5-w.sbc.net...
Blue Raja
<20010512152401...@ng-cv1.aol.com>...
>>>> 1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before.
Can
>>>a
>>>> Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon
combo
>>>to
>>>> get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the bike. (As
>>>per
>>>> the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
>>>No you can't - the rider has to hang onto the bike somehow
>>
>>That's simply not the case. Take for example, space marine bike
sergeants.
>>They come with a bolt pistol as standard, and have an option to take a CCW
>>for
>>one point.
>>
>
>But can't use both according to the White Scars army list
That's incredibly stupid, why the hell would anyone pay +1pt for jack shit.
A ccw can't do anything better than a bolt pistol, in fact the bp is way
better.
LuckyStryke
> So you're telling me I pay +1 point for a ccw just so it looks nice? Get
> real, even GW aren' that crazy yet.
>
> Erik C
Have you bothered to read the FAQ yet?
Blue Raja
>Can
>> a
>> > Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon
>> > combo to get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the
>> bike.
>> > (As per the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
>>
>> This rule applies only to Reaver Jetbikes. Only the highly advanced Dark
>> Eldar have to worry about actually piloting bikes, apparently. (Source:
>GW
>> Online FAQ)
>
>Yes, this is what I figured. So they do get the +1 Attack. (For example,
>for having a pair of Lightning Claws)
Makes sense to me (in a buying weapons sense, not a "look ma, no hands"
sense).
>> > 2. The Chaos Bikes have the option of having bike mounted Plasma Guns.
>> > These guns obviously get the full range bonus that being bike mounted
>> gives,
>> > but are they also exempt from the over heating rules (as per plasma
>> weapons
>> > being mounted on vehicles)? Logic would say yes, but is this written
>down
>> > anywhere?
>>
>> AFAIK, it has never been stated anywhere that bikers are immune to the
>'Get
>> Hot!' rule.
>
>However, I will have to disagree with you here. These are not guns being
>held by the riders, but mounted on a bike. If you think about it
logically,
>they are not holding them, so they don't care if they get hot. Also they
>are mounted on the front of the bike, and therefore get quite a bit of air
>cooling, so are less likely to overheat :) So I think i'll play it that
>they can't over-heat. :) (Because they are not hand-held, but mounted on a
>vehicle - Technically)
A bike is *not* a vehicle, no matter what it looks like.
A bike is an upgrade like artificer armour. It's a marine that gets: +1
toughness, +6" movement and a twin linked bolter (and a different difficult
terrain rule), that's it. Despite what the model looks like, that bike
isn't a vehicle, it's more like a shield, jumppack and combiweapon all in
one.
>> > 3. In the Chaos codex, it lists the Bikes as being for Independent
>> > Characters only, but then in the wargear section at the back, it says
>they
>> > can be taken by a squad as long as the whole squad has them. Which is
>> > correct? Would you be able to take a Chaos lord and retinue, all
>upgraded
>> > to champs and all given bikes?
>>
>> Can't help you on this one.
>
>I think from a second reading of these rules you can. The independant
>character bizzo in the wargear section probably only refers to the fact
that
>you can't have one guy in a squad (an Asp Champ for eg) on a bike just to
>get the T bonus. However, you can have a whole squad mounted on them as
>long as you can buy them for the whole squad. (I.e. A command squad that
>can all be upgraded to Champs). However, I don't think i'll use this
>particular tactic. To get a 5 man squad of Plague Marine champions on
bikes
>with Mark of Nurgles and Power fists costs 600 points, not including the
>champion himself. :(
This is a kinda tricky one, especially since I only have C:SM to look at
here. SM have the same kinda deal in that the bike profile states "Space
Marine characters that have a Command squad or are part of a unit may only
be given a bike if all of the models in the unit are also on bikes". Now SM
Command Squads don't get a wargear option, and hence can never have bikes,
however, I think if you look at all the C:CSM rules you'll find that
"Independant Characters Only" + "Aspiring Champions may have wargear" = no
aspiring champion retinues on bikes, since Aspiring Champions are not ICs.
It's said quite indirectly, but it's in there.
>> > 4. If you have a Chaos Lord with a Retinue of Plague Marine champions,
>all
>> > with Marks of nurgle and all on bikes.. (T7). Does the Chaos Lord
>benefit
>> > from the Fearless rule?
>>
>> The leader of a squad never benefits from the abilites of his squad if
the
>> leader does not have them himself. If a leader who can't infiltrate is
>with
>> a squad that can, the whole squad cannot infiltrate, etc. (Source: GW
>> Online FAQ)
>
>Fair enough. What happens then when the squad is in combat. Do you need
to
>take a morale check just for the HQ guy? And if he flees, the rest of the
>squad stays in combat... What about unit cohesion and rallying etc?
I believe you test against the leader, however if he falls back, the squad
stays in combat (I'm sure it's in there somewhere), but I'm not 100% on that
one.
>> > 5. Does the mark of Nurgle count when you are calculating if a
>character
>> is
>> > instantly killed by a weapon with strength equal to double its
>toughness?
>> > Or is the Mark just like the bike bonus, and isn't counted.
>>
>> Any Toughness increase is never figured in for insta-kill. (Source: GW
>> Online FAQ)
>
>D'oh!
I really hate this rule. A bike is one thing, it's a toughness bonus based
on the fact you're sitting on a bike chunk of armour, and if some bugger
with a powerfist smacks you up then the bike isn't gonna do jack. Although
a Mark of Nurgle increases toughness by +1, but not by having more armour,
the guy is *physically* tougher, he doesn't feel pain, or has some diseased
scabs or something that makes him harder to kill, and should also be harder
to instakill IMHO. But then again, I'm not part of the Studio team...
Blue Raja
>Can
>> a
>> > Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon
>> > combo to get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the
>> bike.
>> > (As per the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
>>
>> This rule applies only to Reaver Jetbikes. Only the highly advanced Dark
>> Eldar have to worry about actually piloting bikes, apparently. (Source:
>GW
>> Online FAQ)
>
>Yes, this is what I figured. So they do get the +1 Attack. (For example,
>for having a pair of Lightning Claws)
Makes sense to me (in a buying weapons sense, not a "look ma, no hands"
sense).
>> > 2. The Chaos Bikes have the option of having bike mounted Plasma Guns.
>> > These guns obviously get the full range bonus that being bike mounted
>> gives,
>> > but are they also exempt from the over heating rules (as per plasma
>> weapons
>> > being mounted on vehicles)? Logic would say yes, but is this written
>down
>> > anywhere?
>>
>> AFAIK, it has never been stated anywhere that bikers are immune to the
>'Get
>> Hot!' rule.
>
>However, I will have to disagree with you here. These are not guns being
>held by the riders, but mounted on a bike. If you think about it
logically,
>they are not holding them, so they don't care if they get hot. Also they
>are mounted on the front of the bike, and therefore get quite a bit of air
>cooling, so are less likely to overheat :) So I think i'll play it that
>they can't over-heat. :) (Because they are not hand-held, but mounted on a
>vehicle - Technically)
A bike is *not* a vehicle, no matter what it looks like.
A bike is an upgrade like artificer armour. It's a marine that gets: +1
toughness, +6" movement and a twin linked bolter (and a different difficult
terrain rule), that's it. Despite what the model looks like, that bike
isn't a vehicle, it's more like a shield, jumppack and combiweapon all in
one.
>> > 3. In the Chaos codex, it lists the Bikes as being for Independent
>> > Characters only, but then in the wargear section at the back, it says
>they
>> > can be taken by a squad as long as the whole squad has them. Which is
>> > correct? Would you be able to take a Chaos lord and retinue, all
>upgraded
>> > to champs and all given bikes?
>>
>> Can't help you on this one.
>
>I think from a second reading of these rules you can. The independant
>character bizzo in the wargear section probably only refers to the fact
that
>you can't have one guy in a squad (an Asp Champ for eg) on a bike just to
>get the T bonus. However, you can have a whole squad mounted on them as
>long as you can buy them for the whole squad. (I.e. A command squad that
>can all be upgraded to Champs). However, I don't think i'll use this
>particular tactic. To get a 5 man squad of Plague Marine champions on
bikes
>with Mark of Nurgles and Power fists costs 600 points, not including the
>champion himself. :(
This is a kinda tricky one, especially since I only have C:SM to look at
here. SM have the same kinda deal in that the bike profile states "Space
Marine characters that have a Command squad or are part of a unit may only
be given a bike if all of the models in the unit are also on bikes". Now SM
Command Squads don't get a wargear option, and hence can never have bikes,
however, I think if you look at all the C:CSM rules you'll find that
"Independant Characters Only" + "Aspiring Champions may have wargear" = no
aspiring champion retinues on bikes, since Aspiring Champions are not ICs.
It's said quite indirectly, but it's in there.
>> > 4. If you have a Chaos Lord with a Retinue of Plague Marine champions,
>all
>> > with Marks of nurgle and all on bikes.. (T7). Does the Chaos Lord
>benefit
>> > from the Fearless rule?
>>
>> The leader of a squad never benefits from the abilites of his squad if
the
>> leader does not have them himself. If a leader who can't infiltrate is
>with
>> a squad that can, the whole squad cannot infiltrate, etc. (Source: GW
>> Online FAQ)
>
>Fair enough. What happens then when the squad is in combat. Do you need
to
>take a morale check just for the HQ guy? And if he flees, the rest of the
>squad stays in combat... What about unit cohesion and rallying etc?
I believe you test against the leader, however if he falls back, the squad
stays in combat (I'm sure it's in there somewhere), but I'm not 100% on that
one.
>> > 5. Does the mark of Nurgle count when you are calculating if a
>character
>> is
>> > instantly killed by a weapon with strength equal to double its
>toughness?
>> > Or is the Mark just like the bike bonus, and isn't counted.
>>
>> Any Toughness increase is never figured in for insta-kill. (Source: GW
>> Online FAQ)
>
>D'oh!
Keith Hann
> > > 2. The Chaos Bikes have the option of having bike mounted Plasma
Guns.
> > > These guns obviously get the full range bonus that being bike mounted
> > gives,
> > > but are they also exempt from the over heating rules (as per plasma
> > weapons
> > > being mounted on vehicles)? Logic would say yes, but is this written
> down
> > > anywhere?
> >
> > AFAIK, it has never been stated anywhere that bikers are immune to the
> 'Get
> > Hot!' rule.
>
> However, I will have to disagree with you here. These are not guns being
> held by the riders, but mounted on a bike. If you think about it
logically,
> they are not holding them, so they don't care if they get hot. Also they
> are mounted on the front of the bike, and therefore get quite a bit of air
> cooling, so are less likely to overheat :) So I think i'll play it that
> they can't over-heat. :) (Because they are not hand-held, but mounted on
a
> vehicle - Technically)
There are a few things to keep in mind when trying to work out rule
disputes. First, ignore logic. Completely. My favourite saying that sums
this up nicely is, "You can't throw grenades either" (that can hurt people,
that is). Second, if it does not say anywhere that you ignore a
pre-existing rule, then you do not ignore that rule.
> > > 4. If you have a Chaos Lord with a Retinue of Plague Marine champions,
> all
> > > with Marks of nurgle and all on bikes.. (T7). Does the Chaos Lord
> benefit
> > > from the Fearless rule?
> >
> > The leader of a squad never benefits from the abilites of his squad if
the
> > leader does not have them himself. If a leader who can't infiltrate is
> with
> > a squad that can, the whole squad cannot infiltrate, etc. (Source: GW
> > Online FAQ)
>
> Fair enough. What happens then when the squad is in combat. Do you need
to
> take a morale check just for the HQ guy? And if he flees, the rest of the
> squad stays in combat... What about unit cohesion and rallying etc?
If the leader of a squad runs, the whole squad runs. You use the leader's
LD, and if he fails, everyone buggers out of there regardless of
circumstances.
------
You can't throw grenades either...
Keith Hann
Keith Hann
"Blue Raja" <the_bl...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote in message
news:3afdf5ef$0$25523$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
> That's incredibly stupid, why the hell would anyone pay +1pt for jack
shit.
> A ccw can't do anything better than a bolt pistol, in fact the bp is way
> better.
It's for WYSIWYG fanatics. If that's the way you have it modelled, then...
Keith Hann
Blue Raja
Mmm, I had a read through the FAQ to see if there were actually "real"
answers to these questions, and that is indeed what it says, although "it's
for WYSIWYG fanatics" actually means "shit, we stuffed that up *soooo*
bad...".
The Ham Sap Gwailo
> "David P." <delr...@ozemail.com.au> ha scritto nel messaggio
> <snip>
>
> > 5. Does the mark of Nurgle count when you are calculating if a character
> is
> > instantly killed by a weapon with strength equal to double its toughness?
> > Or is the Mark just like the bike bonus, and isn't counted.
> >
>
> I think the mark counts as really increasing the character's T. So, it
> counts against instant kill too.
This was covered in 'Chapter Approved' Q&A WD 234. Instant death works from the
orignal toughness levels, before toughness bonuses of any sort
--
The Ham Sap Gwailo
aka Ken Davey
CoT/KoB #679
"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the
experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to
do so."
Douglas Adams
Rob Fungsang
> Hi, I've got a few questions about Space Marine bikers, and bikes in
> general. Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.
>
> 1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before. Can
a
> Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon combo
to
> get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the bike. (As
per
> the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
>
stop moving and free both hands for using weapons. DE Jetbikes will crash
if they stop moving. And the Eldar bikes were written by Thorpe.
> 2. The Chaos Bikes have the option of having bike mounted Plasma Guns.
> These guns obviously get the full range bonus that being bike mounted
gives,
> but are they also exempt from the over heating rules (as per plasma
weapons
> being mounted on vehicles)? Logic would say yes, but is this written down
> anywhere?
>
Logic? And GW? LOL. Chaos Bikers' plasma guns still overheat.
> 3. In the Chaos codex, it lists the Bikes as being for Independent
> Characters only, but then in the wargear section at the back, it says they
> can be taken by a squad as long as the whole squad has them. Which is
> correct? Would you be able to take a Chaos lord and retinue, all upgraded
> to champs and all given bikes?
>
GW incompetence strikes again. This is an intentional "cut & paste" rule
designed for GW to use in future codices. The problem is when the one time
this was appropriate to use (the Ravenwing rules), they wrote a whole new
clause.
> 4. If you have a Chaos Lord with a Retinue of Plague Marine champions, all
> with Marks of nurgle and all on bikes.. (T7). Does the Chaos Lord benefit
> from the Fearless rule?
>
No.
> 5. Does the mark of Nurgle count when you are calculating if a character
is
> instantly killed by a weapon with strength equal to double its toughness?
> Or is the Mark just like the bike bonus, and isn't counted.
>
Just like the bike bonus. Strangely both the Mark and bike bonuses do count
for calculating if the Red Terror can swallow the model.
RF
Robert Williams
Jacob Aron wrote in message <20010512152401...@ng-cv1.aol.com>...
>>>> Hi, I've got a few questions about Space Marine bikers, and bikes in
>>>> general. Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> 1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before. Can
>>>a
>>>> Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon combo
>>>to
>>>> get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the bike. (As
>>>per
>>>> the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
>>>No you can't - the rider has to hang onto the bike somehow
>>
>>That's simply not the case. Take for example, space marine bike sergeants.
>>They come with a bolt pistol as standard, and have an option to take a CCW
>>for
>>one point.
>>
>
>But can't use both according to the White Scars army list
What a load of bollocks.
Its:
A)Not chapter approved
and:
B)Only contains rules and writings which apply to White Scars, not any other
chapter or army.
Rob
Robert Williams
>> This rule applies only to Reaver Jetbikes. Only the highly advanced Dark
>> Eldar have to worry about actually piloting bikes, apparently. (Source:
>GW
>> Online FAQ)
>
>Yes, this is what I figured. So they do get the +1 Attack. (For example,
>for having a pair of Lightning Claws)
Yes. Don't listen to the idiots telling you that the Whitescar list says you
can't.
Rob
Jacob Aron
>>>>> general. Any constructive help would be greatly appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. A sort of general question, but one I've not seen covered before.
>Can
>>>>a
>>>>> Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a CCW/Power weapon
>combo
>>>>to
>>>>> get the bonus attack? Or do they need one hand to steer the bike. (As
>>>>per
>>>>> the Dark Eldar codex which stipulates this).
>>>>No you can't - the rider has to hang onto the bike somehow
>>>
>>>That's simply not the case. Take for example, space marine bike sergeants.
>>>They come with a bolt pistol as standard, and have an option to take a CCW
>>>for
>>>one point.
>>>
>>
>>But can't use both according to the White Scars army list
>
>What a load of bollocks.
>
>Its:
>
>A)Not chapter approved
>
>and:
>
>B)Only contains rules and writings which apply to White Scars, not any other
>chapter or army.
It says that usually you can't, but for the White Scars they make an exception.
Pretty clear.
++++++++++++
Jacob - Bearer of Black and White Hat #1 and *RGMW Merit Badge [Gold]*
"He's spending a year dead for tax reasons" - a tribute to Douglas Adams
ICQ#: 112915166
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/fluff40k
incrdbil
wrote:
>
>It says that usually you can't, but for the White Scars they make an exception.
> Pretty clear.
not clear at all. Do you need it repeated? It's a special rule,
pertaining to Whire Scar squads. The reason marine bike squads can't
do it normall is that the BP/CCW option isn't available to them, but
it exists for characters. Don't confuse a non-CA article
rationalization for White Scars to be a ruling that applies anywhere
else. It's that simple.
Robert Williams
--
Inquisitor e-group - GW_Inquisit...@yahoogroups.com
Jacob Aron wrote in message <20010513165145...@ng-fb1.aol.com>...
My arse it does. Its a rule that applies to Whitescars, no one else. Its also
part of a non-CA article. And then there is the fact that actual official rules
say bikers can have, in some cases, 2 CCW's (Regular and veteran biker
sergeants).
Rob
Jacob Aron
Well then its another 'clarification', as official as the ATSKNF one...
Robert Williams
>>My arse it does. Its a rule that applies to Whitescars, no one else. Its
>>also
>>part of a non-CA article. And then there is the fact that actual official
>>rules
>>say bikers can have, in some cases, 2 CCW's (Regular and veteran biker
>>sergeants).
>
>Well then its another 'clarification',
Proof of this?
as official as the ATSKNF one...
>
In otherwords, totally useless.
Rob
Ken Fox
think the Q&A are considered official rules, so if you bring the Q&A
to a game, they are the final word. (At least that's the way we play
at my local hobby shop.) The Q&A answers are prefixed with "|" to
separate them from my comments.
"David P." wrote:
> 1. Can a Marine biker use a pistol (plasma or bolter) and a
> CCW/Power weapon combo to get the bonus attack?
| Does this mean that:
|
| a) Reaver jetbikes have this rule and nothing else does (Reavers
| being hard to control because they get the power boost).
|
| b) All jetbikes get this rule (jetbikes being hard to control because
| they fly around the place - wheee!).
|
| c) All bikes, even the Space Marine ones that do not have this rule
| listed, get this restriction ("duh, of course a biker needs to
| keep one hand on the handlebars").
|
| Answer: a. The rule will only apply when its written down, though as
| a house rule players can use if for other bikers too, if they wish
| (or they can assume the bike has an 'autopilot' a la Judge Dredd).
So, there's no restriction on bikes other than Reavers. (Which is a
pain because Eldar have similar jetbikes.)
However, there is a Chaos Q&A that reads:
| 7) Under Chaos Space Marine Bikers the weapons option says the rider
| is armed with bolt pistol OR close combat weapon. Should this be
| AND, not OR? If this is not an error, what is the point? Both the
| bolt pistol and close combat weapon do _identical_ things in hand
| to hand combat (entitle the user to fight), yet a bolt pistol can
| also be used to shoot. There is no point value difference, so
| there would never, ever, be a reason to take close combat weapons
| over pistols.
|
| It's in for WYSIWYG fanatics.
So, the answer to your question is that a CSM biker can only have a
pistol OR a CCW, *BUT* a Chaos character on a bike can have a pistol
AND a CCW.
> 2. The Chaos Bikes have the option of having bike mounted Plasma
> Guns. ... are they also exempt from the over heating rules?
The Q&A is silent on this, so I would follow the rule book. A bike
is not a vehicle and only vehicles ignore over heating, therefore
a bike can take a wound from over heating. (See page 94 in the main
rule book: "Bikes are treated as troops rather than vehicles ...")
> 3. Would you be able to take a Chaos lord and retinue, all upgraded
> to champs and all given bikes?
No, you can't. Here's GW's reason:
| ... This means that a Lord with a Retinue can never have a bike. How
| does this reconcile?
|
| This is an example of a 'boots and braces' rule format. Basically,
| when we write books we often get caught out by some sections getting
| changed, and this not following through to other bits (the problems
| with vehicle upgrades are a good example of this). So we'll put a
| rule like this in as a fail-safe, in case stuff gets added to to
| other sections of the book later on. In this case the fail-safe is
| redundant, but that's why it's there.
I agree with other people that these kinds of rules are a pain in
the ass. Maybe Europeans have a different preference for enjoying
rules with great ambiguity? I'm just a clueless American after all...
> 4. If you have a Chaos Lord with a Retinue of Plague Marine
> champions, all with Marks of nurgle and all on bikes.. (T7).
> Does the Chaos Lord benefit from the Fearless rule?
The Lord makes everybody fearful! Yep, that's right. If the Lord
falls back, his *ENTIRE* retinue will too:
| The Chaos Lord and the squad don't 'share' any special abilities, so
| a Lord leading a Fearless retinue is not fearless himself, the
| Veterans don't allow the Lord to infiltrate (as stated under
| Veterans), and the Thousand Sons still can't assault. Note that the
| Lord and his retinue are a single unit, so if one of them can't do
| something, then none of them can. The only real problem that occurs
| is with the fearless rule, where you can get a situation where a
| model in a unit has to take a morale check while the unit he is a
| part of doesn't. In this case the Lord must check, and if he fails he
| will fall back (just assume he realizes he can best serve his masters
| by surviving the battle), and the rest of the unit will have to fall
| back with him.
By the way, you can't give them bikes. ;)
> 5. Does the mark of Nurgle count when you are calculating if a
> character is instantly killed by a weapon with strength equal to
> double its toughness? Or is the Mark just like the bike bonus,
> and isn't counted.
| You should use the model's _original_ toughness for working out
| instant kills. No modifiers for things like bikes, war gear or other
| special abilities are taken into account (for example, in Codex Chaos
| taking the Mark of Nurgle will add +1 to the models toughness, but
| you'd use the original toughness for outright kill purposes). This
| keeps a lid on players bumping up the toughness of multi-wound
| characters, making them very difficult to kill.
Hope that helps.
- Ken