Review - White Dwarf 266
P Bowles
again:
Nothing new to report by way of introduction, so on with the review - I haven't
seen a mention of the price change, and the High Elf blisters (with the
exception of Teclis, £8 rather than the usual £6 for an infantry character) are
priced along the normal lines.
NEW RELEASES
WARHAMMER
Imrik, Dragon Prince of Caledor £25
Teclis £8
High Elf Dragon Princes (box of 5) £25
High Elf Phoenix Guard (3) £5
Phoenix Guard Command (3) £6
High Elf Ellyrian Reaver Command £4
Starting with the biggest, Imrik's dragon is the first 6th Ed. Dragon I've been
even mildly impressed by, though of course it suffers from the usual pose
problem and I'm not sure what purpose the sail jutting from the tail is
supposed to serve. Imrik himself is another matter, with androgenous features
and a frankly horrible pose, wearing plain and undetailed armour. The Dragon
Princes themselves are certainly an improvement over their predecessors, but
I'm not at all convinced the Studio's blue, white and silver colour scheme
suits them. The Reaver Command figures are unimaginative, seeming to consist of
the same body with three alternative right arms. Teclis is, to my mind, a great
improvement over the original figure, and indeed over the already good High Elf
Mages from the last edition. Finally, the Phoenix Guard have been given phoenix
helms and a greater dynamism to their poses - although the two Champion figures
are practically identical, the standard bearer's hand on hip looks camp rather
than giving the intended effect of drawing his sword, the drummer seems to be
having a rest rather than actually drumming and the one figure that looks
closest to the 5th Ed. Phoenix Guard seems to be cold looking at the way he's
drawing his cloak about him.
WARHAMMER 40,000
Chaos Space Marines (plastic Battle Squad of 8) £15
Dark Angels Tactical Squad (boxed squad of 10) £18
White Scars Space Marine Commander £10
White Scars Space Marine Bike Squad (boxed squad of 3) £18
Index Astartes Compilation £10
Now I'm not usually one to complain about GW's prices - by and large I'm
willing to pay them and so it would be hypocritical for me to do so. However, I
can see no objective reason why anyone would pay as much for eight plastic
Space Marine infantry as they would for a similar number of plastic Silver Helm
cavalry, Guardians with metal accessories (Dire Avengers), or twice as many
similarly-sized Guardians or Orks, let alone Gaunts with their free biomorph
sprues added for extra value. And that's assuming that any of these are a good
deal, and certainly in the Avengers' case this is not something I'd be prepared
to concede. You don't even get enough pieces here to make more than six figures
with bolters (in case you wanted to buy metal heavy/special troops to finish
the squad, for instance - unlikely as the plasma gun and heavy bolter contained
are the best general options for a standard squad), or four with close combat
weapons (other than arm mutations designed to represent close combat weapons).
This rip-off price is a pity, as these are very nice figures (of which more
later), especially when compared with other Chaos offerings available at
present.
As for the other releases - variety may be the spice of life, and I have
nothing against a wider range of figures/accessories for Space Marine Chapters,
but Space Marines are not in particularly dire need of reinforcement at
present, while Eldar and Ork figures are still missing and the Imperial Guard
still have only substandard plastics. In fact, most of the SM releases here
have barely any new components - DA shoulderpads and a Sergeant which may be a
new figure, and for the White Scars a couple of head variants, a buckler and
two scimitars. The Commander figure brandishing a 'power lance' that looks
suspiciously like a Nemesis force halberd is the only real addition to the
range.
LORD OF THE RINGS
Bridge at Khazad-Dum (2) £40
Gil-Galad £4
Galadrial and Celeborn £10
Dwarf Kings (2) £5
Haldir £4
Lorien Elf Bowmen (3) £5
Someone got bored before they'd finished sculpting the LotR pieces - the Bridge
at Khazad-Dum pieces, though so overpriced they make the CSM plastics look a
bargain, are nice enough - another very impressive Gandalf and while I'm not
completely sold on the Balrog, there's no doubt that it's imposing - and huge.
as for the rest, something's gone wrong with the faces of Galadriel, Celeborn
and Gil-Galad (though the Mirror's nice) and neither the Dwarfs nor Haldir
impress me. The Lorien archers aren't bad, but are very heavily based on the
Wood Elf versions (Morley strikes again - okay, he can make good models; he
just doesn't have the imagination to make good models of anything except metal
Elf archers - even the bows owe more to the Wood Elves than those in the film).
The cinematic below is of the not-yet-released Elf attack on the Orcs in Lorien
- looks good.
BLACK LIBRARY
Inferno! 29 £5
Shadowbreed (reprinted novel by David Ferring) £5.99
THE DRAGON PRINCES
Reprinted background on the War against Chaos, and a token piece about the unit
itself.
'EAVY METAL MASTERCLASS
Imrik and Teclis. And more on painting gems.
INDEX ASTARTES: FOR THE EMPEROR
Semi-detailed background on the differences between Imperial theology as taught
by the Ecclesiarchy and the Space Marine faiths - quite welcome, as the 'how do
SMs see the Emperor?' question has popped up from time to time. There's also a
little on the purported subject of the article, the Chaplains. So far as I can
see, everything's here and the piece is worth a look for those interested in
Marines, though there's nothing new.
TRAITOROUS PLASTICS
Though not credited with the design in the New Releases section, the look and
feel of the new Chaos figures were directed by Jes Goodwin (Chaos fans rejoice:
he's also behind the forthcoming Warhammer Chaos plastics). GW has decided to
arrange the pieces on the sprues so that it would be impossible to cut one in
half with the components for two CSMs (as you can with the SMs, which is why
they get 10 to a box) - there's no real excuse for this, as we know that the
various SM-style components will fit that way, and alternatively they could
always have made a sprue of 5 each if they didn't want 12 to a box for a
10-strong squad. Eight is no use to anyone but a World Eater...
But I digress. Three sprue types are included - the main sprue of legs, torsos,
helmeted heads (all heads in this set are generic - no Berserker, Plague
Marine, Noise Marine or Thousand Son components), shoulder pads and basic
weapons (two chainsword/bolt pistol combos and three bolters to each of the two
main sprues in the box - ie, too few to arm all models with one of these weapon
fits). The only accessories to these basic components are daggers and pistol
holsters. The second sprue is the character sprue - extra arms, head,
loincloth, banner pole and parts for a heavy bolter, plasma gun, plasma pistol
and power claw (this is a nice piece, even if Diaz did sculpt it). Finally the
mutation sprue provides three new left and three new right arms with mutations
representing a variety of close combat weapons - spikes, groping hands, maces
or tentacles (so, with the squad leader's components you can just give the
entire squad close combat armaments - however, since the boltgun, plasma gun
and heavy bolter pieces are designed to be placed two-handedly, modelling
mutations on figures so armed may be difficult). Six mutant heads finish this
sprue (the Ungor head looks clumsily done). Chaos players should get some
interesting pieces from this set and it should make for some nice character
figs, but it isn't as varied as it might be and none of the mutations is
particularly gruesome or unnerving. Over the page, we are shown figures which
mix several sets (the Chaos Warrior/Marine with halberd and power claw is my
favourite of those shown), but the Berserker weapons seem disproportionately
large and unwieldy compared with those from the CSM set itself.
WARHAMMER CHRONICLES
Dogs of War special characters, at long last.
'EAVY METAL SHOWCASE
Fairly random assortment of 40K-related figures, showing that the Carnifex need
not be a dead loss if modelled and painted well.
INDEX XENOS: GENESTEALERS
Basic Genestealer fluff. It's nice to see the original 'Stealers honoured in
the Ymgarl description (that of a creature with tentacles for a face, a la the
RT rulebook), although the idea that Genestealer physiology is influenced by
the genetic heritage of the host race is contrary to old background on
purestrains (which were just that, pure). So is a throwaway comment about
'Stealers' human hands being able to manipulate simple machinery. Cults are of
course mentioned and dominate a fair share of the article, but there are no
mentions of Magi and little of Brood Brothers. Still, this is a start,
hopefully enough for newer players to start clamouring for Genestealer Cult
army lists, and it's a pity this article wasn't held back for release with such
a list in Chapter Approved.
LIGHTNING STRIKE
Pictures of White Scars.
THE WAR OF THE BEARD: THE DWARFS' WAR OF VENGEANCE
The story of Brok Stonefist and Salendor; probably reprinted from somewhere
though I don't remember it. We are told that the next issue will feature rules
for these characters after a spur-of-the-moment decision to add them; fills one
with confidence in the playtesting process, doesn't it? 'Hey, I've had this
great idea for some characters!' 'Okay, shove it in WD - don't worry, you've
got a whole month.' Then there is the army list - seems less beardy than the
Elf one, but then Dwarfs arguably have the benefit of a better list to use as a
basis.
A RADICAL ENCOUNTER
Some two-page Inquisitor-reject fluff piece.
KEITH STOCKBURN'S AIR CAVALRY
Guard airborne army supposedly influenced by Vietnam - complete with Back to
the Future-style flying skateboards and a 'Gorgon', which seems to have changed
from being a mine-clearer to being a Land Speeder with an Earthshaker. Other
elongated Land Speeder limosines actually look pretty nice as troop carriers,
even with Catachan crew (I feel they fit this army better than unconverted
Speeders do Marine ones, to be honest).
THE FALL OF MIRAGLIANO
I've only skimmed through this, but I get the impression that this prelude to
the Skaven release is set in Warhammer's 'modern day' (like the retaking of
Karag Eight Peaks in the Dwarf book). It''ll be interesting to see how the
city's destruction affects the Dogs of War backstory when their book comes
around.
THE HORDES OF SKAVENBLIGHT
Short preview. I like the Rat Ogres - they're a major departure from the
familiar figures, but give a darker, Frankensteinish feel to Clan Moulder's
efforts that harks back to older days. The Mordheim-ised Gutter Runners and
Assassins are dreadful.
CHAPTER APPROVED: KROOT MERCENARIES
The honeymoon period for the all-new Tau didn't last long, but their allies are
back, and they can be used as allies for Eldar, Dark Eldar, Ork, Imperial Guard
and Chaos armies as well as in armies of their own. Kroot can take a single
army-wide evoluntionary adaption to improve their abilities, and have armoury
access to the basic weaponry used by their most common employers (as well as
plasma and melta guns and their own eviscerator - read, chainfist). They lose
access to Tau weaponry, as these mercenaries represent wild Kroot outside the
Empire. All Kroot in a Kroot army have Ld8 and a 6+ save rather than 7 and no
save as they may have in a Tau army.
I won't reproduce the entire army here, but to summarise the basic units and
their abilities:
HQ
Master Shaper - fairly obvious; he's no better in combat than other Shapers
(all Kroot Kindreds must have a Shaper to lead them with the usual
characteristics - those more similar to a hero than to a unit champion) but has
Ld 10. He can have a retinue of Shapers, which could be a formidable unit.
ELITES
Headhunter Kindred: 10pts, Kroot profile and rifle, may spit poison in close
combat (one attack, automatically wounds on 4+). Useful against the rare large
monsters that Kroot aren't really equipped to deal with, but indifferent
against many armies.
Stalker Kindred: 11pts. Gains the advantage of Catachan ambush rules when
deploying - these are not reproduced in the magazine. Can have attached Kroot
Hounds. Could be a nasty surprise, but they've nothing to make them better in
close combat than most Kroot.
TROOPS
Kroot Carnivore Kindred: Basic 8pt grunts. No access to hounds or Krootox.
FAST ATTACK
Vulture Kindred: Jump pack Kroot.
Kroot Hound Pack: Mix of Carnivores and Kroot.
Tracker Kindred: Kroot cavalry with sniper rifles (rather an odd combination,
especially as these Fast Attack Kroot have special abilities which allow them
to move quickly even by cavalry standards - at 18pts these are by far the most
expensive Kroot and it's hard to see where their value lies, as the loss of the
Kroot rifle's extra close combat weapon ability hampers them in close combat).
HEAVY SUPPORT
0-1 Hunter Kindred: Infantry with hunting rifles - 10pts cheaper than the
Trackers.
Krootox herd: Up to nineteen Krootox in one unit? Expensive - but you can have
normal Kroot to bulk out the numbers (max. 1 Kroot per Ox).
Punji Traps: Primitive mines (at least in effect). Again, set up using Catachan
rules not reprinted for those without the Codex.
USING A DARK ANGELS ARMY IN WARHAMMER 40,000
The rumoured rules revision is here; IIRC pretty much the same as the previewed
version here some time ago.
THE DEFENCE OF CHRACE
High Elf v. Lahmia battle report. I'm still reading this, but given the
worryingly small size of the HE force combined with the mind-numbingly stupid
decision to take expensive Phoenix Guard, whose selling point is the ability to
cause fear, against the Undead, I'm not hopeful of a good guy victory. The
style is in the favoured report rather than fiction format, with the nice clean
2-D diagrams, but the commentary isn't very detailed.
What, there's more? Oh yes, that Ring thing...
A STALWART COMPANION
Interviewing the actor who plays Sam.
THE BRIDGE AT KHAZAD-DUM
Scenery piece.
KING AND QUEEN OF THE WOODS
Diorama - pity about Galadriel and Celeborn being in it. Completely spoils a
nice woodland scene...
PAINTING MASTERCLASS
Balrog.
Philip Bowles
Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge
"P Bowles" <pbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020119043204...@mb-fp.aol.com...
<snip>
> CHAPTER APPROVED: KROOT MERCENARIES
>
> The honeymoon period for the all-new Tau didn't last long, but their
allies are
> back, and they can be used as allies for Eldar, Dark Eldar, Ork, Imperial
Guard
> and Chaos armies as well as in armies of their own.
A trifle bizarre that Tau can't actually use their own mercenaries, I
thought.
<snip>
>
> THE DEFENCE OF CHRACE
>
> High Elf v. Lahmia battle report. I'm still reading this, but given the
> worryingly small size of the HE force combined with the mind-numbingly
stupid
> decision to take expensive Phoenix Guard, whose selling point is the
ability to
> cause fear, against the Undead, I'm not hopeful of a good guy victory.
You get one even so, despite the entire 2500 points of Elves having exactly
10 missile weapons in it. What was this fuckwit thinking of? Alessio appears
to deliberately throw the game. either that, or his much-vaunted experience
is a pile of crap.
The
> style is in the favoured report rather than fiction format,
Thank god.
with the nice clean
> 2-D diagrams, but the commentary isn't very detailed.
I noticed that. can they get nothing right?
>
> What, there's more? Oh yes, that Ring thing...
>
> A STALWART COMPANION
>
> Interviewing the actor who plays Sam.
>
> THE BRIDGE AT KHAZAD-DUM
>
> Scenery piece.
>
> KING AND QUEEN OF THE WOODS
>
> Diorama - pity about Galadriel and Celeborn being in it. Completely spoils
a
> nice woodland scene...
>
> PAINTING MASTERCLASS
>
> Balrog.
Waste of space.
--
Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge.
"The First Rule of Spooge Club is, you do not talk about Spooge Club.
The Second Rule is, you do not talk about Spooge Club.
Third Rule of Spooge Club: Someone yells stop, goes limp, taps out. The
spooge is over.
Fourth Rule: Only one guy to a spooge.
Fifth Rule: One spooge at a time.
Sixth Rule: No pants, no shoes.
Seventh Rule: Spooging will go on as long as it has to.
Eighth, and Final Rule: If this is your first night at Spooge Club, you
have to spooge." - William Shatner (audition for part subsequently
mysteriously given to Brad Pitt)
Michael Reed
Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge <ki...@enterprise.com> wrote in message
news:a2bg3f$3i9$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "P Bowles" <pbo...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20020119043204...@mb-fp.aol.com...
>
> <snip>
>
>
> > CHAPTER APPROVED: KROOT MERCENARIES
> >
> > The honeymoon period for the all-new Tau didn't last long, but their
> allies are
> > back, and they can be used as allies for Eldar, Dark Eldar, Ork,
Imperial
> Guard
> > and Chaos armies as well as in armies of their own.
>
> A trifle bizarre that Tau can't actually use their own mercenaries, I
> thought.
Credit where it's due, they're being consistent with their fluff - the
mercenary Kroot are by definition those that didn't want anything to do with
the Tau, and they can't get Tau equipment as a result.
Mike Reed
P Bowles
>>
>> The honeymoon period for the all-new Tau didn't last long, but their
>allies are
>> back, and they can be used as allies for Eldar, Dark Eldar, Ork, Imperial
>Guard
>> and Chaos armies as well as in armies of their own.
>
>A trifle bizarre that Tau can't actually use their own mercenaries, I
>thought.
I'm not so sure - the Tau don't use mercenaries as such, they just conscript
troops from subject races within the Empire. As a result, the Kroot they use
will be disciplined and organised along the lines in the Tau book rather than
in separate Kroot forces.
>> THE DEFENCE OF CHRACE
>>
>> High Elf v. Lahmia battle report. I'm still reading this, but given the
>> worryingly small size of the HE force combined with the mind-numbingly
>stupid
>> decision to take expensive Phoenix Guard, whose selling point is the
>ability to
>> cause fear, against the Undead, I'm not hopeful of a good guy victory.
>You get one even so,
Mostly due to High Magic, I noted. Someone with army composition that poor and
such a weak playing style (wasting Dragon Princes chasing a few Dire Wolves,
especially when their banner could have wiped out the Black Knights pretty
quickly?) really didn't deserve to win. Given that his general was an infantry
character, White Lions would have been both better and cheaper as his bodyguard
unit than Phoenix Guard, and he could have done with more than a single box of
spearmen at his disposal. In any case, most Undead aren't so tough or
well-armoured that high strength weapons are particularly necessary against
them (other than the usual cavalry). I can't help feeling that bolt throwers
might have been better than rushing hell-for-leather into hth with chariots as
well.
despite the entire 2500 points of Elves having exactly
>10 missile weapons in it.
And the Reaver Bow wasn't even among them... Not that High Elves gain any great
benefits from their archers; their champions are overpriced, and I can take or
leave 12pt longbowmen. My impression of the High Elf book (review coming
shortly), is that shock cavalry is the key to victory with close combat
infantry as the main supplement. High Elves are no longer anything special at
range.
What was this fuckwit thinking of? Alessio appears
>to deliberately throw the game. either that, or his much-vaunted experience
>is a pile of crap.
If it's just experience against the typical GW staffers, he's hardly likely to
learn much...
Philip Bowles
Blue Raja
>If it's just experience against the typical GW staffers, he's hardly likely
to
>learn much...
I dunno, he should have learnt how to scream annoyingly quite well.
--
The Blue Raja
"Try as you might, you can't read a great philosophical debate in, say, two
people kicking the crap out of each other." - Philip Bowles
RGMW FAQ - Just read the damn thing
http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
Robert Williams
>have barely any new components - DA shoulderpads and a Sergeant which may be a
>new figure,
Its a new figure. There are no DA shoulder pads in the set, just the new
veteran sergeant figure, and the plasmacannon bits which have DA iconography all
over them.
Rob
Robert Williams
>> CHAPTER APPROVED: KROOT MERCENARIES
>>
>> The honeymoon period for the all-new Tau didn't last long, but their
>allies are
>> back, and they can be used as allies for Eldar, Dark Eldar, Ork, Imperial
>Guard
>> and Chaos armies as well as in armies of their own.
>
>A trifle bizarre that Tau can't actually use their own mercenaries, I
>thought.
It seems you have completely missed one of the points of the army list.
Rob
Rob Fungsang
"Robert Williams" <rs...@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:a2bpbk$cgh$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
That's it? And it has the same price as a marine biker squad over there?!
Those translate to $40 US! Methinks the Chaos box isn't the biggest ripoff
of the month...
RF
Robert Williams
--
Inquisitor e-group - GW_Inquisit...@yahoogroups.com
Rob Fungsang wrote in message ...
>
>"Robert Williams" <rs...@tesco.net> wrote in message
>news:a2bpbk$cgh$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
>> In fact, most of the SM releases here
>> >have barely any new components - DA shoulderpads and a Sergeant which may
>be a
>> >new figure,
>>
>> Its a new figure. There are no DA shoulder pads in the set, just the new
>> veteran sergeant figure, and the plasmacannon bits which have DA
>iconography all
>> over them.
>
>That's it?
Actually no. There are also 9 plastic marines in the box.
So for £3 more than a tactical squad box, you don't get the marine accessory
sprue, and a tenth plastic marine, but you get a metal figure and the
plasamacannon bits. Sounds ok to me.
Rob
Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge
"Michael Reed" <re...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:a2bnep$lvg$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
I think it's sweet that mercenaries are so picky about their employer,
particularly when they'll work for Chaos and the Orks...
Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge
extending their use of mercenaries, for some reason...
P Bowles
>particularly when they'll work for Chaos and the Orks...
They don't exactly choose to do either - most Kroot worlds are occupied by Orks
who force them to fight (why is beyond me, as Orks wouldn't want anyone else
getting in the way of their chance to bash heads), while Chaos Kroot are
probably like the ones in the fluff piece a couple of months ago, mutated and
corrupted by feasting on Chaotic dead.
Philip Bowles
Lil Al owns joo
>> veteran sergeant figure, and the plasmacannon bits which have DA
>iconography all
>> over them.
There is a whole range of chapter specific heavy weapons ready for
release, and having handled them a couple of months ago, I can say that
they are sweet!!!!!
Shame about the price tho'...........
--
Alex Billing - "I get enough exercise just pushing my luck"
Warhammer 6th Edition Fanboy, RGMW Chief Lackey and Events Organiser, StPF
member, Short Priest of the church of Jimi and holder of Green Hat #2
Tau e-group - tau_pathfind...@yahoogroups.com
Warmaster e-group - GW_Warmaste...@yahoogroups.com
Epic 40,000 e-group - e40k-list...@yahoogroups.com
Inquisitor e-group - GW_Inquisit...@yahoogroups.com
RGMW FAQ: http://www.sheppard.demon.co.uk/rgmw_faq/rgmw_faq.htm
Visit my website : http://www.browse.to/ye_olde_world
Robert Williams
>> >thought.
>>
>> It seems you have completely missed one of the points of the army list.
>The only point to it I can see is to stop their new Tau buyers from
>extending their use of mercenaries, for some reason...
Tau use Kroot in the form they appear in the Tau list. The merecenary list is
the Kroot who do not fight for the Tau, either because they didn't agree with
the Kroot becoming part of the Tau empire, or becuase they were sent out from
Pech by the Kroot elders to get some fresh genetics from the rest of the galaxy,
and bring it back to Pech for some more diversity.
It explains it on the first page (page 82) of the article. I suggest you read
it.
Rob
Robert Williams
>
>There is a whole range of chapter specific heavy weapons ready for
>release, and having handled them a couple of months ago, I can say that
>they are sweet!!!!!
Ooooh. For which chapters?
Rob
Michael Reed
> >
> > Credit where it's due, they're being consistent with their fluff - the
> > mercenary Kroot are by definition those that didn't want anything to do
> with
> > the Tau, and they can't get Tau equipment as a result.
>
> I think it's sweet that mercenaries are so picky about their employer,
> particularly when they'll work for Chaos and the Orks...
>
Well, working for aliens is one thing - there's no emotional involvement.
Working for the people who've occupied your homeworld and are trying to
destroy your culture is a very different kettle of fish.
IMHO, allowing other armies to employ Kroot mercs was a mistake anyway; they
should have been left to operate as separate formations. That would ideally
include the Tau list as well... what are a bunch of footslogging savages
doing integrated into a high tech airmobile force, anyway? Allied
contingents do not routinely belong in a game of 40K's scale.
Mike Reed
Michael Reed
>
> "Robert Williams" <rs...@tesco.net> wrote in message
> news:a2bpec$scq$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
> > >A trifle bizarre that Tau can't actually use their own mercenaries, I
> > >thought.
> >
> > It seems you have completely missed one of the points of the army list.
> The only point to it I can see is to stop their new Tau buyers from
> extending their use of mercenaries, for some reason...
Differentiating the 'civilised' and 'wild' Kroot probably has a lot to do
with it. In addition, the inclusion of a mob of heavily mutated,
powerfist/power weapon wielding assault maniacs would be a plug for the
intended weakness of the Tau. The other races' mileages vary. IG were
already broken on that count by the inclusion of Deathwatch and assassins,
so that's moderately less daft. Chaos already have cultists in the cannon
fodder role, who are cheaper and better armed... not too many problems
there. Orks are pretty similar to Kroot, so that at least isn't unbalancing.
As for Eldar... well, they're renowned for high cost cannon fodder anyway.
It would still have made more sense to leave them as a scenario-specific
option rather than a freely available one, though; like all these freely
available, multi-army bolt ons they make the claimed differentiation of the
armies rather more suspect.
Mike Reed
Lil Al owns joo
The four main, Ultra, SW, BA and DA, and you've seen the one of the DA
ones.....
Blue Raja
>while Chaos Kroot are
>probably like the ones in the fluff piece a couple of months ago, mutated
and
>corrupted by feasting on Chaotic dead.
I just had this image of bright blue and pink Kroot: Kroot Horrors!
Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge
So the title 'Kroot Mercenaries' is a tad misleading?
Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge
Agreed.
Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge
I did. It was shit. I rejected it. This concept comes with free thought.
Perhaps you should try that.
Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge
>
> Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge <ki...@enterprise.com> wrote in message
> news:a2ed8f$uhn$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "Robert Williams" <rs...@tesco.net> wrote in message
> > news:a2bpec$scq$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
>
> > > >A trifle bizarre that Tau can't actually use their own mercenaries, I
> > > >thought.
> > >
> > > It seems you have completely missed one of the points of the army
list.
> > The only point to it I can see is to stop their new Tau buyers from
> > extending their use of mercenaries, for some reason...
>
> Differentiating the 'civilised' and 'wild' Kroot probably has a lot to do
> with it. In addition, the inclusion of a mob of heavily mutated,
> powerfist/power weapon wielding assault maniacs would be a plug for the
> intended weakness of the Tau.
Oh, I agree, and I quite grasp the reason why the Tau don'[t get access to
certain types of Kroot. Within the starting confines of the Tau fluff though
it's just rot. These would be the first types of Kroot I'd try and lay my
hands on as a tau officer.
The other races' mileages vary. IG were
> already broken on that count by the inclusion of Deathwatch and assassins,
> so that's moderately less daft. Chaos already have cultists in the cannon
> fodder role, who are cheaper and better armed... not too many problems
> there. Orks are pretty similar to Kroot, so that at least isn't
unbalancing.
> As for Eldar... well, they're renowned for high cost cannon fodder anyway.
> It would still have made more sense to leave them as a scenario-specific
> option rather than a freely available one, though; like all these freely
> available, multi-army bolt ons they make the claimed differentiation of
the
> armies rather more suspect.
Afraid so.
P Bowles
>Orks
>> who force them to fight (why is beyond me, as Orks wouldn't want anyone
>else
>> getting in the way of their chance to bash heads), while Chaos Kroot are
>> probably like the ones in the fluff piece a couple of months ago, mutated
>and
>> corrupted by feasting on Chaotic dead.
>
>So the title 'Kroot Mercenaries' is a tad misleading?
What would you propose, 'Kroot who fight because (a) they have to or (b)
because Guard or Eldar hired them'?
Philip Bowles
Robert Williams
>> It explains it on the first page (page 82) of the article. I suggest you
>read
>> it.
>
>I did. It was shit. I rejected it. This concept comes with free thought.
>Perhaps you should try that.
Oooooh. I was only tying to be helpful.
Rob
Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge
Regardless of the nonsensical Tau fluff, those Kroot are mercenaries. For
one thing their stats should be considerably lower if they have suddenly
been busted down to unwilling slave troops.
Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge
I'd just taken an overdose of spiky tablets...;>)
Paul Hohn II
>What was this fuckwit thinking of? Alessio appears
>>to deliberately throw the game. either that, or his much-vaunted experience
>>is a pile of crap.
>
>If it's just experience against the typical GW staffers, he's hardly likely to
>learn much...
Ya know, for a guy who had has his hands in not only reworking, and
down-home screwing up, of the VCs he seemed awfully inept at fielding
them. His force composition also left much to be considered. Granted
there was plenty of bad luck and good rolling to go around, but he
didn't do much to try and counter that.
Martyn
Lil Al owns joo
<alex...@removetoreply.oscars.demon.co.uk> wrote
in message
news:PUJf6qB6...@oscars.demon.co.uk...
> >>There is a whole range of chapter specific
heavy weapons ready for
> >>release, and having handled them a couple of
months ago, I can say that
> >>they are sweet!!!!!
> >
> >Ooooh. For which chapters?
>
> The four main, Ultra, SW, BA and DA, and you've
seen the one of the DA
> ones.....
Can you say who is getting what ??
cheers
Martyn
Torak
occupied by Orks
> > >> who force them to fight (why is beyond me, as Orks wouldn't want
anyone else
> > >> getting in the way of their chance to bash heads), while Chaos Kroot
are
> > >> probably like the ones in the fluff piece a couple of months ago,
mutated and
> > >> corrupted by feasting on Chaotic dead.
> > >So the title 'Kroot Mercenaries' is a tad misleading?
> > What would you propose, 'Kroot who fight because (a) they have to or (b)
> > because Guard or Eldar hired them'?
> Regardless of the nonsensical Tau fluff, those Kroot are mercenaries. For
> one thing their stats should be considerably lower if they have suddenly
> been busted down to unwilling slave troops.
But they're not slave troops. They fight with the Tau because they get paid;
even the armour-initiative connection shows this.
Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge
"Torak" <to...@andrew-perry.com> wrote in message
news:a2j7us$11pcgh$1...@ID-94845.news.dfncis.de...
So, you are saying that they *are* mercenary troops? ;>)
WEBSTERR
Both of their Composition was atrocious.
Here are a few of the Comp rules from the Sidney Warhammer Tournament compared
to the High Elf player's choices (I know Allesio was just as bad).
1. Are there more Core Units than Special and Rare combined?
No. He had 3 Core, but 4 Spec/Rare.
2. Do points spent on Core choices exceed those spent on Characters?
No. He had 759 Pts. in Char. and 545 Pts. in Core.
3. Do points spent on Core choices exceed those spent on Special and Rare
combined?
No. He had 545 Pts. in Core, but 1190 Pts. in Spec./Rare.
4. Do at least half the Core units contain at least 150% the minimum
number of models?
Yes. He met this...barely.
5. Are at least 40% of the army's points spent on Core choices?
Nope.
6. Does the Army contain less than the maximum number of character slots?
Nada.
7. Does the army contain more than the minimum Core choices?
Uh, uh.
8. Does the army contain less than the maximum Special choices?
Yes.
9. Does the army contain less than the maximum Rare choices?
Nope.
10. Do at least half the units in the army (capable of containing command
models), contain their maximum number of command models?
Yes.
11. Are there less than 4 or less magic levels in the army? (12 or less for
Demons, 2 or less for Dwarfs.
Nope.
12. Does the army contain 10% or less of the total points in magic items
(including Marks of Chaos, Bloodline Powers, Dwarf Runes, but NOT Khemri
Scrolls).
Nope.
13. Is the most expensive model 200 points or less?
Nope.
Etc. Etc. So by GW's OWN Tournament Composition guidelines. These armies don't
even come close. I wouldn't expect them to meet these (after all its a
"friendly" game), but it would be nice to demonstrate to the newbies good army
comp...
Regards,
Mike Redden
P Bowles
>Here are a few of the Comp rules from the Sidney Warhammer Tournament
>compared
>to the High Elf player's choices (I know Allesio was just as bad).
>
>1. Are there more Core Units than Special and Rare combined?
>No. He had 3 Core, but 4 Spec/Rare.
Unforgivable not so much because of the questionable cheese potential, as
because High Elf Core choices are among the army's best options. Replacing the
Phoenix Guard with an extra Spearmen or Silver Helm regiment would have been
more effective.
>2. Do points spent on Core choices exceed those spent on Characters?
>No. He had 759 Pts. in Char. and 545 Pts. in Core.
Sadly, the new High Elf list is designed to promote this sort of imbalance,
especially where mages are concerned (it's a rare High Elf fighter who's an
unstoppable killing machines; the High Elf magic weapons selection is too poor
for that. On the other hand, has anyone considered the potential of a
Swordmaster Archmage?)
>3. Do points spent on Core choices exceed those spent on Special and Rare
>combined?
>No. He had 545 Pts. in Core, but 1190 Pts. in Spec./Rare.
Phew - a slight imbalance is fair enough given roughly equal numbers of Core
and non-Core units and the higher price of the specialist units, but over twice
as many points on Special/Rare is ludicrous, not to mention wasteful - no
wonder the army was so small.
>4. Do at least half the Core units contain at least 150% the minimum
>number of models?
>Yes. He met this...barely.
16 Spearmen is a useless size for a unit - I'd never take a unit of less than
20, whether Elves or Saurus, rarely fewer than 24 (a favoured number, as it is
divisible by 4, 3 and 2, and adding a character will give you a five-square
regiment), and in armies of 1500pts or higher, at least one Spearmen unit
(assuming I take any) will be 30-strong.
>6. Does the Army contain less than the maximum number of character slots?
>Nada.
*sigh* I'd be hard-pushed to fit the maximum number of characters in any of my
armies below 3,000pts, with minimal equipment, even if I wanted to. I just have
this eccentric and unfashionable idea that I might need soldiers in my army.
>8. Does the army contain less than the maximum Special choices?
>Yes.
I have to admit, many of my larger Wood Elf armies fail on this count (though
not my Lizardmen - an army which needs LOTS of point-gobbling Saurus
footsloggers and Skinks). MInd you, Scouts and Glade Riders are hopefully
destined to become Core choices in the playtest list (it would be absurd if
Wood Elves, renowned for their mobility, became the only Elven race WITHOUT
Core cavalry).
>9. Does the army contain less than the maximum Rare choices?
>Nope.
It's not even as though High Elves are especially favoured in the Rare
department.
>10. Do at least half the units in the army (capable of containing command
>models), contain their maximum number of command models?
>Yes.
*shrug* Fair enough - the only ones I'd hesitate to give command figures are
Archer, Sea Guard, Reaver and Shadow Warrior regiments due the unaccountably
overpriced Champions.
>12. Does the army contain 10% or less of the total points in magic items
>(including Marks of Chaos, Bloodline Powers, Dwarf Runes, but NOT Khemri
>Scrolls).
>Nope.
Wood Elves don't have enough items at their disposal to use that many if they
wanted to...
>13. Is the most expensive model 200 points or less?
>Nope.
Not so sure how fair an assessment of balance this is in a 2,500pt army - few
armies that size wouldn't use a monster-riding character or high-level Mage, a
Treeman, Stegadon, War Hydra or whatever.
>Etc. Etc. So by GW's OWN Tournament Composition guidelines. These armies
>don't
>even come close.
Just as well they aren't in a tournament. Of course, by the guidelines of
common sense and playability they fail fairly miserably too.
>I wouldn't expect them to meet these (after all its a
>"friendly" game), but it would be nice to demonstrate to the newbies good
>army
>comp...
What, and encourage them to buy relatively cheap plastics instead of large
regiments of metal Swordmasters and Phoenix Guard?
Philip Bowles
Janet Quick
"WEBSTERR" <webs...@aol.com> wrote:
> " His force composition also left much to be considered. "
>
> Both of their Composition was atrocious.
> Here are a few of the Comp rules from the Sidney Warhammer Tournament compared
> to the High Elf player's choices (I know Allesio was just as bad).
>
Sorry, here's where I roll my eyes. The game already has composition rules.
Someone who puts all his points in characters and rare/special troops ends
up with a lower number of units - which increases the chances that your few
units get flanked. It evens out. I firmly believe (call me naīve) that
each army will dictate it's own composition rules. Making blanket rules
like this benefits some armies (mobs and weak-magical ones mostly) and put
unreasonable restrictions on others.
> 1. Are there more Core Units than Special and Rare combined?
> No. He had 3 Core, but 4 Spec/Rare.
>
Bretonnians have no problem with this (of course their core troops are
truly, really and absolutely that - the strong core of the army). Realm
Knights Rock!
O&G's could argue this. If you have a boar-mounted fast attack army, there
is no way to satisfy this extra requirement. If you go for night goblins
and squigs, it's still problematic.
> 2. Do points spent on Core choices exceed those spent on Characters?
> No. He had 759 Pts. in Char. and 545 Pts. in Core.
>
Ut oh, the Brets could have a problem with this at lower point level armies.
The characters are a bit expensive and all of them (except magic-users) must
be mounted (14 to 21 pts for the barded warhorse up to 200 for the
hippogriff).
O&G's applaud this restriction and laugh gleefully.
> 3. Do points spent on Core choices exceed those spent on Special and Rare
> combined?
> No. He had 545 Pts. in Core, but 1190 Pts. in Spec./Rare.
>
Same comments as #1.
> 4. Do at least half the Core units contain at least 150% the minimum
> number of models?
> Yes. He met this...barely.
>
Brets say no problem - who ever heard of a 5 or 8 knight lance? (Okay, a
couple of 6's may pop in but mostly due to point restrictions.)
But what about armies that rely on lots of core archers? Why should they
carry extra archers that can't see to shoot? (And aren't any good at hth
anyway.)
> 5. Are at least 40% of the army's points spent on Core choices?
> Nope.
>
This goes back to my original comment at the very top.
> 6. Does the Army contain less than the maximum number of character slots?
> Nada.
>
Again, Brets almost always max out their character allowance. It's what
they are; it's what they do.
If the O&G's have Black Orc characters, this will happen - period.
> 7. Does the army contain more than the minimum Core choices?
> Uh, uh.
> 8. Does the army contain less than the maximum Special choices?
> Yes.
> 9. Does the army contain less than the maximum Rare choices?
> Nope.
>
The guidelines are already set for this stuff. If there's problem with
armies that follow the guidelines then perhaps that army's list should be
looked at.
> 10. Do at least half the units in the army (capable of containing command
> models), contain their maximum number of command models?
> Yes.
>
Again, for Brets it's almost guaranteed. For mob armies and shootie armies
it won't happen.
> 11. Are there less than 4 or less magic levels in the army? (12 or less for
> Demons, 2 or less for Dwarfs.
> Nope.
>
Okay, this one I can understand. But probably only because I'm still
sizzling over the VC's massive magic. Probably a VC player can argue that
the army composition forces them to have many levels of magic-users.
> 12. Does the army contain 10% or less of the total points in magic items
> (including Marks of Chaos, Bloodline Powers, Dwarf Runes, but NOT Khemri
> Scrolls).
> Nope.
>
I can get behind this one too, except I'm sure that physically weak,
magically strong armies will object. (Like Elves?)
> 13. Is the most expensive model 200 points or less?
> Nope.
>
Poor Lizardmen. How much is the required Slann Mage?
When someone joins a tournament, that someone must be aware that the others
joining have created the best possible army list (in their opinion) for the
strengths and weaknesses of their army. Don't tournament folks make at
least one list for each race they may face? Is it a surprise to set up
across from a Bretonnian army in a tournament and discover the Bret player
has filled all the character slots? Who is shocked to discover the VC
player had maxed his magic? Anyone surprised by the the shear masses of
greenskins?
It's frustrating to always end up against a more experienced (or simply
better) player. Instead of piling on more restrictions, how about paying
attention to the match-ups?
I'll dismount my soapbox now.
Janet
P Bowles
>>
>> Both of their Composition was atrocious.
>> Here are a few of the Comp rules from the Sidney Warhammer Tournament
>compared
>> to the High Elf player's choices (I know Allesio was just as bad).
>>
>Sorry, here's where I roll my eyes. The game already has composition rules.
>Someone who puts all his points in characters and rare/special troops ends
>up with a lower number of units - which increases the chances that your few
>units get flanked. It evens out. I firmly believe (call me naīve) that
>each army will dictate it's own composition rules. Making blanket rules
>like this benefits some armies (mobs and weak-magical ones mostly) and put
>unreasonable restrictions on others.
Also bear in mind that tournament composition rules are designed with armies of
1,000 - 1,500pts in mind. At higher points levels, 200pt individual figures are
more reasonable as are higher numbers of units in all categories. The breakdown
of the battle report forces just goes to show that an army can break most of
the usual composition guidelines and still be very far from overpowering - both
were pretty pathetic.
Philip Bowles
Torak
For
> > > one thing their stats should be considerably lower if they have
suddenly
> > > been busted down to unwilling slave troops.
> >
> > But they're not slave troops. They fight with the Tau because they get
paid;
> > even the armour-initiative connection shows this.
>
> So, you are saying that they *are* mercenary troops? ;>)
Yes; that's what I've been saying all along. I was meaning to reply to the
one saying they were slave troops.
Besides, the Tau fluff makes more sense than the almost biblical continuity
and coherence problems of all the rest.
WEBSTERR
"Unforgivable not so much because of the questionable cheese potential, as
because High Elf Core choices are among the army's best options. Replacing the
Phoenix Guard with an extra Spearmen or Silver Helm regiment would have been
more effective."
Agree. As is the case with most if not all the current Army Book blessed
armies.
- Consider Dwarf Clansmen, Skeletons, Empire Swordsmen, DE Corsairs.
"Sadly, the new High Elf list is designed to promote this sort of imbalance,
especially where mages are concerned (it's a rare High Elf fighter who's an
unstoppable killing machines; the High Elf magic weapons selection is too poor
for that. On the other hand, has anyone considered the potential of a
Swordmaster Archmage?)"
Not a major beef with me either.
"Phew - a slight imbalance is fair enough given roughly equal numbers of Core
and non-Core units and the higher price of the specialist units, but over twice
as many points on Special/Rare is ludicrous, not to mention wasteful - no
wonder the army was so small."
Yep. They were at least 20 models shy of a similar 2000 pt. army I put
together, and they had 500 more points to play with.
"16 Spearmen is a useless size for a unit - I'd never take a unit of less than
20, whether Elves or Saurus, rarely fewer than 24 (a favoured number, as it is
divisible by 4, 3 and 2, and adding a character will give you a five-square
regiment), and in armies of 1500pts or higher, at least one Spearmen unit
(assuming I take any) will be 30-strong."
Agree. 25 is my standard size with 20 for elites. Of course for orcs I use 30
as standard (40 for gobbos).
"*sigh* I'd be hard-pushed to fit the maximum number of characters in any of my
armies below 3,000pts, with minimal equipment, even if I wanted to. I just have
this eccentric and unfashionable idea that I might need soldiers in my army."
Yep. 2-3 is standard for me in 2000 pts.
"I have to admit, many of my larger Wood Elf armies fail on this count "
So do mine somewhat. Again not a major beef with me.
"It's not even as though High Elves are especially favoured in the Rare
department."
Grin.
*shrug* Fair enough - the only ones I'd hesitate to give command figures are
Archer, Sea Guard, Reaver and Shadow Warrior regiments due the unaccountably
overpriced Champions.
Pretty standard for me. I agree with Reavers,Archers and Shadow Warriors,but I
ALWAYS give command to Sea Guard since they are good at shooting as well as
melee. Plus their Champ is hth oriented vice shooting oriented.
"Wood Elves don't have enough items at their disposal to use that many if they
wanted to..."
Too many Magic Items just means too few troops to do the job.
"Not so sure how fair an assessment of balance this is in a 2,500pt army - few
armies that size wouldn't use a monster-riding character or high-level Mage, a
Treeman, Stegadon, War Hydra or whatever."
True. Again I didn't really have a problem with the characters, they were just
a bit too tooled up and too many of them. By the way, important lesson from
this battle which I learned long ago. If you have the option almost ALWAYS put
your BSB on a Steed. His save going from 5+ to 3+ helps him keep alive,
especially with his T3.
"Just as well they aren't in a tournament. Of course, by the guidelines of
common sense and playability they fail fairly miserably too."
Which really is my point. Not exactly setting a stellar example.
"What, and encourage them to buy relatively cheap plastics instead of large
regiments of metal Swordmasters and Phoenix Guard?"
Yeah. What was I thinking :)
Regards,
Mike Redden
WEBSTERR
"Sorry, here's where I roll my eyes. The game already has composition rules.
Someone who puts all his points in characters and rare/special troops ends
up with a lower number of units - which increases the chances that your few
each army will dictate it's own composition rules. Making blanket rules
like this benefits some armies (mobs and weak-magical ones mostly) and put
unreasonable restrictions on others."
You misunderstand. I'm not a Comp-Nazi. I tend to agree with your position.
BUT, you touch on one of the problems they have. These armies aren't very good
simply BECAUSE they have bad comp. So they aren't demonstrating putting
together a decent army. Some armies are certainly helped by Comp rules - The RH
Demon List comes to mind. Most everything was core so it was easy to get good
COMP scores. Also armies with lots of Core Choices (such as Orcs & Empire) are
also helped. This is also by the way one of the major strengths of High Elves
over say Dark Elves in Tournament play - Heavy Cavalry as Core is better than
Light Calvary as Core on average.
>
"Bretonnians have no problem with this (of course their core troops are
truly, really and absolutely that - the strong core of the army). Realm
Knights Rock!"
See my previous post to Phil. The same can be said about many other armies as
well. Dwarf Clansmen are VERY powerful core.
"O&G's could argue this. If you have a boar-mounted fast attack army, there
is no way to satisfy this extra requirement. If you go for night goblins
and squigs, it's still problematic."
Yes but go for an all mounted goblin army and see what happens. In experienced
hands, that's one of the most powerful armies around right now.
When I look at a new army, one of the first things I ask is "Can I make a
powerful army out of this list using mostly core?" Luckily, that's true for the
most part with all the armies with Army Books. I think Dark Elves are probably
the biggest exception right now, which is one of the reasons everyone feels
they are pretty weak, at least in tournament play.
>
"Ut oh, the Brets could have a problem with this at lower point level armies.
The characters are a bit expensive and all of them (except magic-users) must
be mounted (14 to 21 pts for the barded warhorse up to 200 for the
hippogriff)."
True. But we're talking 2500 pts. here. I think any army that doesn't have
35-50% core is gonna have problems personally.
"O&G's applaud this restriction and laugh gleefully."
I haven't looked at it closely, but I think I could probably come up with a
pretty viable 1000-1500 pts. competitive Bret. army. I'll grant you
though,Orcs are pretty easy to do this with. Black Orc Heros are VERY hard for
their points.
"Same comments as #1."
Yes, but I'd argue its still bad army design.
>
"Brets say no problem - who ever heard of a 5 or 8 knight lance? (Okay, a
couple of 6's may pop in but mostly due to point restrictions.)
But what about armies that rely on lots of core archers? Why should they
carry extra archers that can't see to shoot? (And aren't any good at hth
anyway.)"
Right now the only army that falls into this category in my mind is Wood Elves,
but I don't count them as a final product yet since they're still in RH form.
Keep in mind though, sometimes it pays to give shooters command models. I good
example would be Dark Elf RCBs. If you give DE RCBs a standard and champ, with
shields and put them on a hill, you they can hold their own pretty good against
much non-elites. They'll start with a minimum of 3 on Combat Resolution (Rank,
Hill, Std.) and 4+ in hth (Shields/HWs), plus they get a great stanad and shoot
reaction. Orc archers aren't bad either since they get choppas for free (of
course you gotta charge with them).
> 5. Are at least 40% of the army's points spent on Core choices?
> Nope.
>
This goes back to my original comment at the very top.
> 6. Does the Army contain less than the maximum number of character slots?
> Nada.
>
Again, Brets almost always max out their character allowance. It's what
they are; it's what they do.
If the O&G's have Black Orc characters, this will happen - period.
> 7. Does the army contain more than the minimum Core choices?
> Uh, uh.
> 8. Does the army contain less than the maximum Special choices?
> Yes.
> 9. Does the army contain less than the maximum Rare choices?
> Nope.
>
The guidelines are already set for this stuff. If there's problem with
armies that follow the guidelines then perhaps that army's list should be
looked at.
> 10. Do at least half the units in the army (capable of containing command
> models), contain their maximum number of command models?
> Yes.
>
Again, for Brets it's almost guaranteed. For mob armies and shootie armies
it won't happen.
>
"Okay, this one I can understand. But probably only because I'm still
sizzling over the VC's massive magic. Probably a VC player can argue that
the army composition forces them to have many levels of magic-users."
Again, this may be a classic example supporting your argument of tailoring Comp
to certain armies, which I tend to support by the way.
"I can get behind this one too, except I'm sure that physically weak,
magically strong armies will object. (Like Elves?)"
Nah. Give me 250 pts. of magic items to play with, that'll be plenty. I'd
rather spend the rest on troops.
"Poor Lizardmen. How much is the required Slann Mage?"
In that case maybe there should be an exception. Still, I don't have a problem
with someone going over this, but it tends to cut down on their big monster
riding lords a bit. That's the real reason for it.
"It's frustrating to always end up against a more experienced (or simply
better) player. Instead of piling on more restrictions, how about paying
attention to the match-ups?"
In a Swiss System, this is accounted for. The more you win, the better players
you'll play.
"I'll dismount my soapbox now."
Don't sweat it. :)
Regards,
Mike Redden
P Bowles
>because High Elf Core choices are among the army's best options. Replacing
>the
>Phoenix Guard with an extra Spearmen or Silver Helm regiment would have been
>more effective."
>
>Agree. As is the case with most if not all the current Army Book blessed
>armies.
>- Consider Dwarf Clansmen, Skeletons, Empire Swordsmen, DE Corsairs.
Also consider Grave Guard and Black Knights, DE Witch Elves, DE Shades vs. RB
Crossbowmen... While everyone gets good Core units, not all are handicapped in
their Special selections.
>"16 Spearmen is a useless size for a unit - I'd never take a unit of less
>than
>20, whether Elves or Saurus, rarely fewer than 24 (a favoured number, as it
>is
>divisible by 4, 3 and 2, and adding a character will give you a five-square
>regiment), and in armies of 1500pts or higher, at least one Spearmen unit
>(assuming I take any) will be 30-strong."
>
>Agree. 25 is my standard size with 20 for elites. Of course for orcs I use 30
>as standard (40 for gobbos).
My standard size for most units is 10-12, but then these are the unit maximums
for most Wood Elf infantry... I like having blocks of Glade Guard for visual
effect if nothing else, though, and to give my opponent something expendable
yet resilient to aim at.
>"It's not even as though High Elves are especially favoured in the Rare
>department."
>
>Grin.
Still, better to have generally poor to average Rares and good Specials than to
be overburdened with high-quality Rares and have too few slots to use your best
elite options (like Dark Elves).
>"Wood Elves don't have enough items at their disposal to use that many if
>they
>wanted to..."
>
>Too many Magic Items just means too few troops to do the job.
True. Wood Elves have never been a character-heavy force in any of their
incarnations.
If you have the option almost ALWAYS
>put
>your BSB on a Steed. His save going from 5+ to 3+ helps him keep alive,
>especially with his T3.
I must say I very rarely use a BSB (mind you, I don't often play even 2,000pt
battles these days); for some time I've planned a conversion of a charioteer
with the Battle Standard, though he wouldn't be terribly practical in game
terms.
For Wood Elves, of course, the advantage of a steed is small - from a 5+ save
to no better than 4+.
>"Just as well they aren't in a tournament. Of course, by the guidelines of
>common sense and playability they fail fairly miserably too."
>
>Which really is my point. Not exactly setting a stellar example.
Well, they let players know what not to try...
Philip Bowles
Old Bear, the Sultan of Spooge
> > > > Regardless of the nonsensical Tau fluff, those Kroot are
mercenaries.
> For
> > > > one thing their stats should be considerably lower if they have
> suddenly
> > > > been busted down to unwilling slave troops.
> > >
> > > But they're not slave troops. They fight with the Tau because they get
> paid;
> > > even the armour-initiative connection shows this.
> >
> > So, you are saying that they *are* mercenary troops? ;>)
>
> Yes; that's what I've been saying all along. I was meaning to reply to the
> one saying they were slave troops.
No, you were. I said that they were slave troops, but based on what is now
being said, not what I think.
Lil Al owns joo
>seen the one of the DA
>> ones.....
>
>Can you say who is getting what ??
Nope, I can't remember, sorry....
Torak
> > > > But they're not slave troops. They fight with the Tau because they
get paid;
> > > > even the armour-initiative connection shows this.
> > > So, you are saying that they *are* mercenary troops? ;>)
> > Yes; that's what I've been saying all along. I was meaning to reply to
the
> > one saying they were slave troops.
> No, you were. I said that they were slave troops, but based on what is now
> being said, not what I think.
I'm getting dizzy... ;-)