Painting should be done (And screw those that don't!!!)
EchoFlaws
I totally agree with you man. At first I thought "man! I'm never going to be
able to paint miniatures! I suck at painting! I don't have the patience to do
this!" but then after a while I thought... "man! this is a major part of the
game! I can't believe that some people DON'T paint their own guys..."
It really is a sense of accomplishment, and finesse.
Do you know what I hate most. Having a well painted, colour and heraldry
coordinated army. With names for the charactors and everything and then getting
killed by a non-painted no time spent on it army that is dripping with
cheese...
Those people make me sick.
Clay Smith
In article <19980227012...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
echo...@aol.com (EchoFlaws) writes:
> Do you know what I hate most. Having a well painted, colour and heraldry
> coordinated army. With names for the charactors and everything and then getting
> killed by a non-painted no time spent on it army that is dripping with
> cheese...
> Those people make me sick.
>
We should bring back the 'Claw Hammer Rule' - all unpainted figures
that become casualties are flattened with a hammer... That'll stop
it!!
Playing with unpainted figures is crap. I've even played against
players with figures that weren't even glued together yet!! They're
usually the type that don't like to play WYSIWYG either....
And then they'll have the gall to be critical of MY painting!! You
don't have to be Michealangelo to paint these figures...just do your
best! "Oh, I don't have time....(whine)"....then you also don't have
time to GAME, or READ THE RULES, or make your ARMY LIST...
Flame on. I'm wearing my asbestos suit - just get ready to be flamed
back!
Clay
Insert silly tag line here..
Joe P.
I dont think we have to resort to flaming to discuss this issue. The
group I play with has been playing since RT, and thwy have never had a
problem playing with unpainted figures. We do not play wysiwyg. I think this
might come from the old RT days that anything goes. Just for you newtimers,
white dwarf used to put out cool articles like how to make a land speeder
out of a used deoderent tube. We also allow proxy figures. I my self have an
Orc fantasy army with two rectangular peices of foam that has the words
'Bolt Thrower' on them, and they are my bolt throwers. Now, its understood
that this is temporary, but it is acceptable. This can not be allowed to get
out of hand. I would not allow someone to play with toy plastic soldiers
(yes, I have heard it was tried). The point is, how many of you will not
allow an oppenent to have unpainted figures? Or a small amount of proxy
items?
JP
Scott
> Playing with unpainted figures is crap. I've even played against
> players with figures that weren't even glued together yet!! They're
> usually the type that don't like to play WYSIWYG either....
I play with a mostly unpainted army, and a cannon that isn't glued together
yet. This is because (a) I'm a slow painter, (b) I'm a really bad painter,
and (c) I don't have a lot of spare time, so playing and painting compete
for my time, and I'm more interested in the former. My army is slowly
getting colourful, and is fully WYSIWYG, so the "Grey Dwarf Army" will
someday be able to field a fully painted force. On the plus side, I'm
really new at this, so if you want to kick an unpainted army's butt, hop on
the first flight to Toronto - I'm in Oakville, just to the west, and I'll
happily lose to you if I'm not in the midst of another ninety hour work
week from hell. Just don't smash 'em with claw hammers, because I don't
really have time to shop for replacements.
> And then they'll have the gall to be critical of MY painting!! You
> don't have to be Michealangelo to paint these figures...just do your
> best! "Oh, I don't have time....(whine)"....then you also don't have
> time to GAME, or READ THE RULES, or make your ARMY LIST...
Sure I do. I've got a regiment of dwarf clansmen including 16 plastic
figures that are almost done; that's something like eight hours of painting
for me spread over three weekends, during which I could have lost three
more games; it's a trade-off of my relatively scarce leisure hours. After
they're done, I start on the metal figures. I commented to one of my
buddies that I started on the plastic ones to practice, and his response
after examining them was "well, you won't get any worse". I'm proud to say
that he's right; by the time I have a 4000 or so point army (more than
twice the current size), some of the figures may even look half decent.
> Flame on. I'm wearing my asbestos suit - just get ready to be flamed
> back!
Nah. I can understand how someone who's invested the time in painting would
be POed at those of us who haven't. Painting is somewhat relaxing, but in
all honesty actually enjoying it is something of a acquired taste, and is
much easier if you're confident the miniature will look better AFTER you're
done. Mine, well, don't. But my skill at playing the game is increasing
much more quickly than my skill at painting, so I'm looking forward to the
day I can trash some exquisitely painted army with my badly-painted one
;-).
> Clay
Scott Baxter
swb...@hotmail.com
Paul M. M. Jacobus
On 27 Feb 1998, Clay Smith wrote:
I *knew* when this topic returned Clay'd speak up again...
> We should bring back the 'Claw Hammer Rule' - all unpainted figures
> that become casualties are flattened with a hammer... That'll stop
> it!!
Only if we implement it for painted figs too. They die just as much, and
just as rewarding. And hey! It looks messier because of the paint!
> Playing with unpainted figures is crap. I've even played against
> players with figures that weren't even glued together yet!! They're
> usually the type that don't like to play WYSIWYG either....
I play un-glued-together, yet still WYSIWG! (This here is Lefty, and
this is Lieutenant Dan, and, uh, Headless Bob...)
Seriously, WYSIWYG and painted-figs-only is good for rich people who have
a lot of free time, or people with no lives, or whatever. For the rest of
us, it's just a freaking game, and hey, maybe I didn't have time to paint
my new Necro gang, but it's not like it matters at all. The gameplay
matters, not the figures. Or are you one of those people who also refuses
to play against non-GW figs?
> And then they'll have the gall to be critical of MY painting!!
Well, that's just stupid of them. But a different arguement.
> You don't have to be Michealangelo to paint these figures...just do
> your best! "Oh, I don't have time....(whine)"....then you also don't
> have time to GAME, or READ THE RULES, or make your ARMY LIST...
All of the above are required to play the game. Painting figures is not.
It's a nice addition, but is in no way necessary.
> Flame on. I'm wearing my asbestos suit - just get ready to be flamed
> back!
I'll just refrain and leave you wearing an itchy suit. :}
JD
Jussi-Pekka Kumpulainen
well if your friends are too lazy to paint their own models,
you can benefit from this. Just say "I can paint them for you"
but say that they have to buy some paints too(only a fool would paint
his friends models entirely with his own paints) this saves some money.
The point of painting your friends models is that you will improve your
painting skills with painting difrent armies. I´m painting my orc an gobbo
army, my dark elf army, my friends dwarf army and my other friends wood
elf army. The great point is that you dont get bored to paint jus
greenskins or elves or some other race.the changes are releafing.
#---------------------------#
|Jussi-Pekka |
|Kumpulainen |
|jkum...@ksilta.edu.ouka.fi|
|(reply to this adress |
#---------------------------#
Rob Dean
Oh boy, time for the painted armies thread again!
This comes up every couple of months. Luckily, I save my contribution from
the last round, and will append it below. (-:
Rob Dean
rob...@access.digex.net
Scott <swb...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I play with a mostly unpainted army, and a cannon that isn't glued together
>yet. This is because (a) I'm a slow painter, (b) I'm a really bad painter,
>and (c) I don't have a lot of spare time, so playing and painting compete
>for my time, and I'm more interested in the former.
Practice will help with both (a) and (b). I always find (c) a little hard
to believe, because I manage to get painting done early on Saturday mornings,
late at night, and so forth, when opponents are not usually available.
>My army is slowly
>getting colourful, and is fully WYSIWYG, so the "Grey Dwarf Army" will
>someday be able to field a fully painted force. On the plus side, I'm
>really new at this...
Give it time. All that work eventually accumulates--and eventually you'll
find that you have run out of storage space and have to start culling your
collection. I've been at this myself for over 25 years...
Rob Dean
rob...@access.digex.net
Now, from the last time:
Newsgroups: rec.games.miniatures.warhammer
Subject: Painted Armies! (Was: The minis you own...)
Brian Timmermann <bdti...@landasystems.com> wrote:
>Last I checked, my rent and car payments were more important than
>filling the pockets of GW.
Sounds like you have a firm grasp on reality there. (-:
>I also paint to relax from work and have fun. I enjoy painting and
>therefor want to do a good job, which means that I take my time.
...
> Having said this, I have a lot of figures unpainted! some or primered,
>some aren't. If you have a problem with this, you just might have some
>bigger issues here...
Ok, how about some numbers? How long does it take you to paint a figure?
Are you painting them en masse, or is every figure individually done from
start to finish? How many painted figures are you fielding and how many
are unpainted or merely primered?
I'm one of those historical gamers who prefers to field 100% painted armies.
I have a couple of advantages when it comes to this--I've been doing this
for a comparatively long time, so that I have multiple projects which are
"finished" (everything is always subject to future expansion), and, while
I do have a job, a wife and children, this is basically my only active hobby,
so I probably have what most of you would consider to be a lot of time to
devote to it.
Having projects which are finished is nice, because it means that I can
always play a game while the current project(s) are in preparation, and
there's no "start-up" period where I haven't got anything to play unless
I put out unpainted figures.
With it being my only hobby, I can usually squeeze in at least four or
five hours of painting per week, and frequently more, and I have a desk
permanently set up--which means I can slide in there and paint for ten
minutes before going to work, or a half hour while waiting for dinner to
be ready, and all of that work accumulates. It also does not take away
from gaming time, since I have yet to find an opponent available for an
hour and a half from 0600 to 0730 on a Saturday morning...
Oh yes--as a historical player I do have one added luxury. If I spend
a year painting some new project, and it turns out that I don't like the
way it plays, I can always buy a different set of rules, or write my own.
(-:
Now, on to practical matters.
The first rule of fielding painted armies is: keep painting. Like any other
skill, speed improves with practice.
The second rule is: Don't waste time. The primary way to avoid waste is
to paint in bulk. Do entire units, and paint all of one color before
going on to the next. If possible, do multiple units, or at least have
multiple units set up and paint all of one color on both of them, even
if it isn't the same "thing". (You could give everyone in one unit a
brown shirt, and use the same brown for bows on another unit--I don't
know enough about 40K to give reasonable examples there.)
The third rule: Use the biggest possible brush. I can't believe how many
non gamers look at my figures and think that I had to use a 000 brush for
the whole thing. If you're painting something large in more or less solid
colors, use a #4 or larger brush, or get a 1/4" or 3/8" flat brush. You could
spend a week's worth of painting time trying to cover a dragon with a 000
brush.
The fourth rule: The sharpness of the point is more important than the
number of bristles behind the point. I do most of my detail work with
a well pointed #1 brush, and only bring out the 000s when the #1 won't
fit, or for the tiniest details. I find that nylon brushes hold their
points with acrylic paints better than sable--and they're less expensive.
Take care of your brushes. Abused brushed lose the ability to hold a point
rapidly...
Anything beyond that is taste. I can comment further if there's any
interest, but I'd like to hear how others do it...
Rob Dean
rob...@access.digex.net
Clay Smith
In article <6d6lh7$2...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>
"Joe P." <Joe...@Worldnet.att.net> writes:
Some new player still building his army can get away with it. But he
must SHOW PROGRESS. Don't go buy new stuff and play with it UNPAINTED,
when you still have stuff to paint!!
Paint GW figures is not difficult. It requires effort. Why do some
players do everything EXCEPT paint their figures??
Clay Smith
In article <Pine.SUN.3.96.98022...@access4.digex.net>
"Paul M. M. Jacobus" <vam...@access4.digex.net> writes:
>
> Seriously, WYSIWYG and painted-figs-only is good for rich people who have
> a lot of free time, or people with no lives, or whatever. For the rest of
> us, it's just a freaking game, and hey, maybe I didn't have time to paint
> my new Necro gang, but it's not like it matters at all. The gameplay
> matters, not the figures. Or are you one of those people who also refuses
> to play against non-GW figs?
>
Painting is part of the package. Play with cardboard cut-outs if you
don't want to paint!! Doesn't that Ork dread in the boxed set look
stupid on a field of painted figures.
The gameplay is NOT the most important part. The rules are very simple
(if you played Historical Miniatures, you'd really appreciate them...).
If someone is already spending a good deal of time and money on this
hobby, then he has the time and money to field a properly painted army.
WYSIWYG is not for 'Rich' players. It means point your figures up the
way they appear. If you have two Missile Launchers, use them as
Missile Launchers, not Lascannons. Or is it more important to WIN??
Hmm...? Too bad they can't kill a tank as well, but we're just having
fun, right?
In Historical Miniatures Wargaming, painting is NEVER an issue... we'd
never consider using unpainted troops.
Clay
> > And then they'll have the gall to be critical of MY painting!!
>
> Well, that's just stupid of them. But a different arguement.
>
> > You don't have to be Michealangelo to paint these figures...just do
> > your best! "Oh, I don't have time....(whine)"....then you also don't
> > have time to GAME, or READ THE RULES, or make your ARMY LIST...
>
> All of the above are required to play the game. Painting figures is not.
> It's a nice addition, but is in no way necessary.
>
> > Flame on. I'm wearing my asbestos suit - just get ready to be flamed
> > back!
>
> I'll just refrain and leave you wearing an itchy suit. :}
>
> JD
>
Clay Smith
In article <01bd43a1$9db4a820$3f01...@scott.info2000.com>
"Scott" <swb...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> Nah. I can understand how someone who's invested the time in painting would
> be POed at those of us who haven't. Painting is somewhat relaxing, but in
> all honesty actually enjoying it is something of a acquired taste, and is
> much easier if you're confident the miniature will look better AFTER you're
> done. Mine, well, don't. But my skill at playing the game is increasing
> much more quickly than my skill at painting, so I'm looking forward to the
> day I can trash some exquisitely painted army with my badly-painted one
> ;-).
>
You know, that's a good point. I guess I've always assumed that
painting was fun just 'cause. But the best part is when you're done
and have the painted figure to look at. It takes practice to get good,
so it's not like you can brag about your paint job when you just
started in the hobby.
But it's better than unpainted stuff. Unpainted is just lazy. The
worst painted army is still better looking than an unpainted one
(unless it's PAPER, or Jack painted it...we'll see who gets this one..)
Clay
Paul M. M. Jacobus
Deja vu, all over again.
On 27 Feb 1998, Clay Smith wrote:
>> Seriously, WYSIWYG and painted-figs-only is good for rich people who have
>> a lot of free time, or people with no lives, or whatever. For the rest of
>> us, it's just a freaking game, and hey, maybe I didn't have time to paint
>> my new Necro gang, but it's not like it matters at all. The gameplay
>> matters, not the figures. Or are you one of those people who also refuses
>> to play against non-GW figs?
> Painting is part of the package. Play with cardboard cut-outs if you
> don't want to paint!! Doesn't that Ork dread in the boxed set look
> stupid on a field of painted figures.
There's a difference between not wanting to paint, and not having time.
Personally, having a life, I don't have the time to paint all my figs.
That doesn't mean I don't want to, or that I shouldn't use it.
> The gameplay is NOT the most important part. The rules are very simple
> (if you played Historical Miniatures, you'd really appreciate them...).
Au contraire, mon nemesis, to me the game is the most important part. And
if they had a historical game in an mutlilevel urban blight like
Necromunda, I'd play it.
> If someone is already spending a good deal of time and money on this
> hobby, then he has the time and money to field a properly painted army.
It takes a lot less time to go buy something off a shelf than find the
time to paint it.
> WYSIWYG is not for 'Rich' players. It means point your figures up the
> way they appear. If you have two Missile Launchers, use them as
> Missile Launchers, not Lascannons. Or is it more important to WIN??
> Hmm...? Too bad they can't kill a tank as well, but we're just having
> fun, right?
And if I want to try out something new, I don't think I should have to go
buy the figure just to see if I want to use it. That's a serious
expenditure of money (and time, since you'd want it painted, too) just to
see if a new tactic is worth keeping in your gang/army/whatever. I only
have so much recreational funds, and conversion takes more time than
painting. My friends don't mind a few proxies now and then, I extend them
the same courtesy.
> In Historical Miniatures Wargaming, painting is NEVER an issue... we'd
> never consider using unpainted troops.
Well, I might suggest going and doing that instead. This isn't historical,
this is just a friendly game. Nothing so anal as historical players
refusing to play because of my army.
JD
Rob Dean
Paul M. M. Jacobus <vam...@access5.digex.net> wrote:
>There's a difference between not wanting to paint, and not having time.
>Personally, having a life, I don't have the time to paint all my figs.
>That doesn't mean I don't want to, or that I shouldn't use it.
How many figures do you use in a game? At an hour per figure, you ought
to be able to finish off one of those 40-50 man 40K armies in a couple of
months ...
>Au contraire, mon nemesis, to me the game is the most important part. And
>if they had a historical game in an mutlilevel urban blight like
>Necromunda, I'd play it.
You could do a WWII street clearing game -- that would have much the same
feel as Necromunda, I expect. Ruined buildings are available commercially
if you don't want to build your own, and you would have the choice of 15mm,
20mm, and 25mm figures to do it in.
Rob Dean
rob...@access.digex.net
Clay Smith
In article <Pine.SUN.3.96.980227...@access5.digex.net>
"Paul M. M. Jacobus" <vam...@access5.digex.net> writes:
> There's a difference between not wanting to paint, and not having time.
> Personally, having a life, I don't have the time to paint all my figs.
> That doesn't mean I don't want to, or that I shouldn't use it.
>
I've never bought that arguement. Maybe this isn't the right hobby,
then.
> > The gameplay is NOT the most important part. The rules are very simple
> > (if you played Historical Miniatures, you'd really appreciate them...).
>
> Au contraire, mon nemesis, to me the game is the most important part. And
> if they had a historical game in an mutlilevel urban blight like
> Necromunda, I'd play it.
>
Guess what - you can find Historical game systems for just about
anything. And the history is REAL, not fiction. Talk about spending
time on a hobby....try Historicals..
> And if I want to try out something new, I don't think I should have to go
> buy the figure just to see if I want to use it. That's a serious
> expenditure of money (and time, since you'd want it painted, too) just to
> see if a new tactic is worth keeping in your gang/army/whatever. I only
> have so much recreational funds, and conversion takes more time than
> painting. My friends don't mind a few proxies now and then, I extend them
> the same courtesy.
>
I'm not talking about trying new troops. Do you try new troops EVERY
game?? I'm talking about players that flat out don't make an effort to
paint. There is a big difference. Time is no excuse. Using new
figures is no exuse. You have to put SOMETHING on the table - paint
it. I'd appreciate it if my opponent also played WYSIWYG.
> > In Historical Miniatures Wargaming, painting is NEVER an issue... we'd
> > never consider using unpainted troops.
>
> Well, I might suggest going and doing that instead. This isn't historical,
> this is just a friendly game. Nothing so anal as historical players
> refusing to play because of my army.
> JD
>
I play historicals. And this doesn't compare when painting is an
issue. It can take a year or more to get historicals ready to play.
With 40k, it's two dozen figures, maybe, depending on the race.
Tom Leete
In article <6d7ah1$o...@access5.digex.net>, rob...@access5.digex.net (Rob
Dean) wrote:
> Paul M. M. Jacobus <vam...@access5.digex.net> wrote:
>
> >There's a difference between not wanting to paint, and not having time.
> >Personally, having a life, I don't have the time to paint all my figs.
> >That doesn't mean I don't want to, or that I shouldn't use it.
>
> How many figures do you use in a game? At an hour per figure, you ought
> to be able to finish off one of those 40-50 man 40K armies in a couple of
> months ...
OK, I'll weigh in here...
1 hour per fig? I spend considerably longer - hell I probably spend 15-20
minutes just trimming/mounting/assembling the thing before the painting
even begins. I'd rather be fielding a partially painted army for a while
than a sloppy one - half the game for me is the painting. But I don't
want to wait for months to play the game while my army is painted,
although I could just prime them all white and call them the "cleanest
chaos warband in existence" ;)
Tom
Balsak JOD
>> You don't have to be Michealangelo to paint these figures...just do
>> your best! "Oh, I don't have time....(whine)"....then you also don't
>> have time to GAME, or READ THE RULES, or make your ARMY LIST...
>
>All of the above are required to play the game. Painting figures is not.
>It's a nice addition, but is in no way necessary.
i have heard from the rulzboyz that a painted army for some unexplainable
reason fights better. painting is optional but painted mini's seem to work
better go figure(ine)
~Kweethul {a.k.a. Walt}
"If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked
something."
--Captian Tiber, Imperial Guard (comment made after a lieutenant reported that
the Tyranids were retreating)
Clay Smith
In article <leete-27029...@rubin02.med.upenn.edu>
le...@mail.med.upenn.edu (Tom Leete) writes:
>
> 1 hour per fig? I spend considerably longer - hell I probably spend 15-20
> minutes just trimming/mounting/assembling the thing before the painting
> even begins. I'd rather be fielding a partially painted army for a while
> than a sloppy one - half the game for me is the painting. But I don't
> want to wait for months to play the game while my army is painted,
> although I could just prime them all white and call them the "cleanest
> chaos warband in existence" ;)
>
> Tom
What I'm talking about is not painting AT ALL. I'd be glad to play if
you can't field a painted army - but if we played every week I'd expect
to see a little progress over time.
This isn't the inquisition. (It's the SPANISH Inquistion....uh oh, a
new chapter...) Anyway...Just Do It!! Instead of watching Star Trek
(or WHILE you're watching it)...paint something.
One rule I had was a vow to always put one color on one figure minimum
each and every day. Sometimes I could only spend 5 minutes to slap
some paint on a figure, but usually once the paint bottle was open and
I started it was easy to move on to another figure..and another...even
if it was only 15 - 30 minutes.
Hell, get a can of spray paint! That's better than bare lead...! Then
you can work on them from that starting point....
mother
Good house rule:
an unpainted model should suffer a -2 leadership because any thing that ugly
is no good at leading or following.
I have never fielded a an unpainted model, they may be primed and two colors
slap on Time about 5min per model,
there is no excuses lazy buts Guys for your " I don,t have time" Bs
It may take an hour to paint a good job with washes and highlights, but
until then A very least prime and wash in some brown to show details, paint
largest area one color grass your base and you can at least recognize your
model from a bunch of dull metal blobs
..
Avatar
EchoFlaws (echo...@aol.com) wrote:
: I totally agree with you man. At first I thought "man! I'm never going to be
: able to paint miniatures! I suck at painting! I don't have the patience to do
: this!" but then after a while I thought... "man! this is a major part of the
: game! I can't believe that some people DON'T paint their own guys..."
: It really is a sense of accomplishment, and finesse.
: coordinated army. With names for the charactors and everything and then getting
: killed by a non-painted no time spent on it army that is dripping with
: cheese...
Umm....non-painted armies do not equal cheese by a long shot. I'm pretty
sure that I have enough painted minis to rival anything you might have
available, but that doesn't mean that all of my armies are painted. I
have 3 or more armies for each game I play so a couple of those armies
just haven't gotten painted as life got more complicated.
If the worst that happens to you in a day is that your army got beaten by
someone who didn't paint their minis consider yourself lucky and get over
it. In my personal experience, painted forces do not equate to good
tactical sense. I've beaten plenty of painted, color and heraldry
coordinated armies with armies that were not totally painted. Why??
Because I can play well, in addition to paint well. Unfortunately
painting rates really low on the priority scale after my relationship, my
family, my pets and my job. If I have the time I work on painting my
backlog. If not I play instead....
: Those people make me sick.
:
Get over it. Worse things could happen to you....
Avatar
Avatar
Clay Smith (clay....@nospam.eds.com) wrote:
: Playing with unpainted figures is crap. I've even played against
: players with figures that weren't even glued together yet!! They're
: usually the type that don't like to play WYSIWYG either....
Your choice...Don't force it on someone else. I prefer to have WYSIWYG
armies...so what if all the minis are painted yet.
: And then they'll have the gall to be critical of MY painting!! You
: don't have to be Michealangelo to paint these figures...just do your
: best! "Oh, I don't have time....(whine)"....then you also don't have
: time to GAME, or READ THE RULES, or make your ARMY LIST...
:
I'll choose my own order of priorities, mate, and you do the same for
yourself. Its hardly worth the effort to collect the minis and play the
games if some nitwit like yourself demands that in the small amount of
available time that I have to paint before I do anything else. Rules can
be read anytime and anywhere. The painting desk is not that mobile.
Also, since I've bought all these minis to play a game with I play when I
feel like it....
It is always so amusing to me to hear the elitist "Armies MUST be
painted!!!!" crowd. When I go to a local store for a game I look for a
challanging opponent. I really don't care if his minis are fully painted
or not, as long as the army is what it is supposed to be and armed as
seen. Otherwise I don't care AS LONG AS THE GAME IS GOOD. I just find it
laughable when someone notes that maybe a single squad in my army is only
primed and starts giving me grief about it when their minis look like they
were painted by my neice (who is less that a year old right now). When it
comes to painting I have a standard to keep to and will not just drop
color on a mini to say it is painted....
Avatar
Avatar
Clay Smith (clay....@nospam.eds.com) wrote:
:
: Some new player still building his army can get away with it. But he
: must SHOW PROGRESS. Don't go buy new stuff and play with it UNPAINTED,
: when you still have stuff to paint!!
Hey Clay, who died and made you king??? Get your head out of your
backside and realize that YOU do not have any position to tell others
players what they can and can't do.
Avatar
Rob Dean
Tom Leete <le...@mail.med.upenn.edu> wrote:
>rob...@access5.digex.net (Rob Dean) wrote:
>> How many figures do you use in a game? At an hour per figure...
>1 hour per fig? I spend considerably longer - hell I probably spend 15-20
>minutes just trimming/mounting/assembling the thing before the painting
>even begins. I'd rather be fielding a partially painted army for a while
>than a sloppy one - half the game for me is the painting. But I don't
>want to wait for months to play the game while my army is painted...
I'll admit that I've discounted cleaning time, but I am accustomed to
getting some economy of scale effects in my painting. I find that painting
a dozen similar figures at a time only takes 4-5 times as long as painting
one, and usually less than that. Identical (rather than similar) figures
go even faster. Even including cleaning, I don't really think an hour per
figure is unreasonable on the average.
My basic point remains, though, even if you take three hours per figure--
just say that you ought to be able to paint a 40K army in under a year
instead of a few months.
If you don't mind my asking (since I'm always trying to understand why
this particular argument becomes so vehement), how long have you pursued
this hobby, how many figures do you have, and how many of them are painted?
Rough numbers are fine. (By way of offering a point for discussion, I've
been playing seriously again for about 10 years, plus 15 occasional years
before that, have a couple of thousand 25s not counting those sold off in
earlier years, and have an unpainted backlog of about 400 25s. I won't
get into projects in other scales--but I've painted a couple of hundred
40s and 54s over the last two years).
Rob Dean
rob...@access.digex.net
Aimee and Kirk Macdonald
Clay Smith wrote:
>
> In article <6d6lh7$2...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>
> "Joe P." <Joe...@Worldnet.att.net> writes:
>
> >
> > I dont think we have to resort to flaming to discuss this issue. The
> > group I play with has been playing since RT, and thwy have never had a
> > problem playing with unpainted figures. We do not play wysiwyg. I think this
> > might come from the old RT days that anything goes. Just for you newtimers,
> > white dwarf used to put out cool articles like how to make a land speeder
> > out of a used deoderent tube. We also allow proxy figures. I my self have an
> > Orc fantasy army with two rectangular peices of foam that has the words
> > 'Bolt Thrower' on them, and they are my bolt throwers. Now, its understood
> > that this is temporary, but it is acceptable. This can not be allowed to get
> > out of hand. I would not allow someone to play with toy plastic soldiers
> > (yes, I have heard it was tried). The point is, how many of you will not
> > allow an oppenent to have unpainted figures? Or a small amount of proxy
> > items?
> >
> > JP
> >
> >
> >
>
> must SHOW PROGRESS. Don't go buy new stuff and play with it UNPAINTED,
> when you still have stuff to paint!!
>
> players do everything EXCEPT paint their figures??
>
>
> Insert silly tag line here..
Because EVERYTHING EXCEPT PAINTING just MIGHT be living LIFE!
You seem to use a lot of CAPITAL letters and EXCLAIMAION marks!!!!!!
Relax.
--
Kirk "Gimme Persective!" Macdonald
Reply to: hag...@NOSPAMgte.net
Aimee and Kirk Macdonald
Yeah... I'll hit them with a shot of bright red Krylon... They're
painted; get off my case!
--
Kirk "Gimme Danger!" Macdonald
Reply to: hag...@NOSPAMgte.net
Aimee and Kirk Macdonald
Clay Smith wrote:
>
> In article <19980227012...@ladder03.news.aol.com>
> echo...@aol.com (EchoFlaws) writes:
>
> > Do you know what I hate most. Having a well painted, colour and heraldry
> > coordinated army. With names for the charactors and everything and then getting
> > killed by a non-painted no time spent on it army that is dripping with
> > cheese...
> >
>
> that become casualties are flattened with a hammer... That'll stop
> it!!
>
> players with figures that weren't even glued together yet!! They're
> usually the type that don't like to play WYSIWYG either....
>
> don't have to be Michealangelo to paint these figures...just do your
> best! "Oh, I don't have time....(whine)"....then you also don't have
> time to GAME, or READ THE RULES, or make your ARMY LIST...
>
> back!
>
>
> Insert silly tag line here..
You again?!?
I have no idea where you live, but if you lived next door to me we would
never play against each other. I have kids (They just came to me with an
important(?) question as I type! Life goes on... Where was I?) and a
wife and a fallen tree in the yard that needs to be cut up and a
bathroom remodel that isn't quite finished yet and a daughter with strep
throat that needs to go to her doctor appt. and another daughter that
needs to get her Girl Scout cookies out to the people that ordered them
and a wife that needs attention and a dinner that needs to be cooked and
a yard that needs to be mowed and a fence that needs to be rebuilt and a
kitchen full of dishes that need to be washed and a shitload of clothes
that need to be washed and 2 science projects that needs parental help
and homework that needs supervision and a wife that needs attention and
a dinner table that needs to be refinished and a Car that needs it's oil
changed and an elderly Aunt and Uncle that we need to visit and a full
time job and T-Ball practice and Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts and Brownies
and a wife that needs attention...
And if you gave me grief about my unpainted minis, that would just about
pop my twanger!
I've got my priorities and you've got yours. Don't try to impose yours
on me!
--
Kirk "Gimme Danger!" Macdonald
Reply to: hag...@NOSPAMgte.net - remove NOSPAM to reply
Aimee and Kirk Macdonald
Tom Leete wrote:
>
> In article <6d7ah1$o...@access5.digex.net>, rob...@access5.digex.net (Rob
> Dean) wrote:
>
> > Paul M. M. Jacobus <vam...@access5.digex.net> wrote:
> >
> > >There's a difference between not wanting to paint, and not having time.
> > >Personally, having a life, I don't have the time to paint all my figs.
> > >That doesn't mean I don't want to, or that I shouldn't use it.
> >
> > How many figures do you use in a game? At an hour per figure, you ought
> > to be able to finish off one of those 40-50 man 40K armies in a couple of
> > months ...
>
> OK, I'll weigh in here...
>
> minutes just trimming/mounting/assembling the thing before the painting
> even begins. I'd rather be fielding a partially painted army for a while
> than a sloppy one - half the game for me is the painting. But I don't
> although I could just prime them all white and call them the "cleanest
> chaos warband in existence" ;)
>
> Tom
Here, Here!!!
I put a ton of effort into each fig. I started out with Character
figures and each one is a work of art! I have a hrd time with the rank
and file because each one is an individual to me and gets my full
attention!
--
Kirk Macdonald
Reply to: hag...@gte.net
Michael J. Falcon-Gates
It seems that SOMEBODY hasn't seen the light, hasn't yet found the True Way of
Paint. Paint Is All...
In article <6d7p6s$lac$1...@gte1.gte.net>, hag...@NOSPAMgte.net says...
>
>I have no idea where you live, but if you lived next door to me we would
>never play against each other. I have kids (They just came to me with an
>important(?) question as I type! Life goes on... Where was I?) and a
>wife
So paint her. I recommend Elf Flesh, and a 50/50 Elf Flesh/White mix for the
highlights.
>and a fallen tree in the yard that needs to be cut up and a
Don't cut it up, just paint it... if you spray it Goblin Green, and then don't
mow the lawn, it'll blend right in. You can't mow anyway, 'cos of all the
branches, right?
>bathroom remodel that isn't quite finished yet
Spray everything with several coats of white, and then a nice clearcoat to
seal it-- it'll all hold together fine.
>and a daughter with strep
>throat that needs to go to her doctor appt.
Hey, just paint the back of her throat Ultramarines Blue-- that oughta kill
those germs!
>and another daughter that
>needs to get her Girl Scout cookies out to the people that ordered them
Hey! You've got a Girl Scout handy? Is she still taking orders? I haven't been
able to find a cookie-selling Scout ANYWHERE. I need about a case of thin
mints, and a box of those peanut-butter things.
I tried painting my five-year-old Dark Angels Green, but it didn't work for
some reason.
>and a wife that needs attention and a dinner that needs to be cooked
I don't think Citadel makes a good "Mac & Cheese Yellow," but I'm sure you can
find a good "Steak Brown" in their line
>and a fence that needs to be rebuilt
Spray enough paint onto it, and it'll stay up.
and a
>kitchen full of dishes that need to be washed
A new coat of paint will cover all that dried-on food, and you'll be able to
use the dishes again, no problem.
>and a shitload of clothes
>that need to be washed
Covers dirt on clothes, too!
>and 2 science projects that needs parental help
Well, I'm sure that they could use some painting help, too.
>and
>a dinner table that needs to be refinished
Wiiiiiiith.... PAINT! Of course!
>and a Car that needs it's oil
>changed
Y'know, I bet your car could use a fresh coat of paint.
>and an elderly Aunt and Uncle that we need to visit
Nahh, just send 'em that $9.95 "intro" set you can get from GW mail order, you
know, the one with five paints, a brush, and one or two plastic minis. You'll
never need to visit 'em again, they'll be too busy painting.
>and a full
>time job
So quit and start a painting service.
>and T-Ball practice and Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts and Brownies
>and a wife that needs attention...
Y'know, MOST companies would probably start giving bulk discounts on those
sets, if you bought enough of 'em. GW probably won't, but you could ask.
As you can see, all good things come from paint. Any time you spend doing
something other than painting is utterly WASTED. Why, I'm painting three
miniatures right now, holding one brush with my lips and one with each foot.
Well, okay, maybe not REALLY.
-m
--
Not Microsoft's paint, etc.
Balsak JOD
i suck at painting i've got around 60 models and all are painted
i can only afford about $5 a month for mini's and stuff and when you consider
that the brushes i use are $4.50 a whack i don't get many mini's TO paint
i also have to take the winter off because i use a spray primer that just ain't
cool to use indoors and a spray clear coat as well
i have my Chaos warband for WHFB done but that was easy (orc champion w/
scorpion tail; ogre second-in-command; 6 beastmen) and a handfull of stealer
cult hybrids and two banshees
all my other figs are leftovers from blisters or mass trade deals and even
though i probably will never use them i painted them (the practice is useful)
now i have a life and right now gaming of any kind isn't a big priority in it
the general concensus of the NG on this subject seems to be:
1:> Non-gaming problems come first (job, family, school, etc.)
2:> Figures should be painted, even if it is just a coat of primer
3:> Every one can find some time to paint; maybe 5 minutes a week, but some
time none-the-less
if you disagree with my observations, that's fine. make your own and feel free
to post it after all, that's what i just did
Jussi-Pekka Kumpulainen
well i think that WHFB is a way of life to me. I dont have the
time to go play some crapy game outdoors, so i have warhammer as my hobby.
i don´t have much time to exersize my hobby, but when i do, i do it well.
I have painted a 1500 pt. dark elf army ,a 1800 pt. wood elf army, a 2000
pt. orc´s & gobbos army and a 2500 pt. dwarf army all by myself. I have
played Warhammer FB only about 18 months now, so i think im don well. I
think myself as a fast painter and my friends agree too. they say that the
models that i fave painted look allmost as good as in the books, but i
think that i have some things that i can improve in my painting. The more
you paint the better you will become. My hobby includes making
scenarios(GW:s scenarios are too expencive) and its fun too. the only
scene from GW that i use came with the 5th edition boxed set. If you think
that im a rich boy with too much time in my hands, you are mistaking.
i go to high school and it takes most of my time and im not very wealthy
in terms of cash. the reason why i have painted four armies iss that two
of these are owned by my two friends who cant paint werry good, and want a
good looking army. I realy wanted to paint their armies so that my
painting skill would improwe. If a person dont like to paint, or doesn´t
have time for it, I sugest that if they have a friend that paints and
enjois it ask if he/she could paint you models.Buy some paints for
him/her, so he doesnt think you are trying to benefit from him. Me and my
friends buy all paints together so that the paints dont take too much
money from one person. IT´S NOT JUST A GAME IT´S A WAY OF LIFE!
Rob Dean
Balsak JOD <bals...@aol.com> wrote:
>i can only afford about $5 a month for mini's and stuff and when you consider
On paintbrushes--I use some expensive Winsor and Newton brushes, but I find
that I can get a lot of service out of the Apple Barrel/Plaid golden nylon
brushes that I pick up in the craft section at WalMart for three or four
dollars for a pack of four (#1 down to #000 as I recall). The W&N brushes
are better, but not four times better in general.
>now i have a life and right now gaming of any kind isn't a big priority in it
And your army is all painted. (-: Imagine what you could do if it _was_
a priority. (-:
Rob Dean
rob...@access.digex.net
Kuma
Does this always turn into a pissing contest?
There are many reasons to paint your army, but I don't have the time to
spend explaining them all to you (I have a few figs to paint!) but the
only one that really matters in the long run is unit identification.
Have the courtesy to paint your units with at least a base coat of
basic colors.
You don't get bonus points or victory points for that matter for a
great paintjob (but you do get a ton of satisfaction!) but it is much
easier to game with units you can recognize.
Nothing makes me really question the state of the game more than
someone fielding a "Primer only" force (I wish you could deduct
points!)
I will not game with someone who fields an unpainted force. I would
rather reduce the point total of the game and play against what they do
have painted than face the "Phantom Primer Marines" or the "Chrome
Chaos."
I am a fairly good painter and only an average gamer so my opinion is
somewhat jaded, but I have a full time job (with much overtime,
sometimes forced) a house (having to be redone) and a young teenager
(talk about taking up hours!) yet for about an hour a night, or on a day
off I make a point of putting some paint on some of my figs.
If you don't make the time, you won't find the time!!!
I am the owner of 150 unbuilt Plastic Aircaft (1/72-1/48) and Sci-fi
kits, 35 Finished (most to near Museum Quality), 300 Painted Figs
(GW and Battletech), 150 Unpainted figs (mostly GW)
The numbers seem daunting, (they do at times to me!) but you can only
take them a fig or model kit one at a time, or it WILL overwhelm you.
As I said before, Paint your figures, you will be glad you did!
Kuma
One figure at a time, five figs at a time,.....WHATEVER. Simply paint
your figs before you put them on the table.
BigTime Bub
Joe P. (Joe...@Worldnet.att.net) wrote:
: I dont think we have to resort to flaming to discuss this issue. The
: group I play with has been playing since RT, and thwy have never had a
: problem playing with unpainted figures. We do not play wysiwyg. I think this
: might come from the old RT days that anything goes.
Eh ? In the Rogue Trader days you wouldn't even hear of ANYONE playing
with unpainted figs. The 40K crowd was too small and to into the hobby.
It's much more commercial nowadays, with people who are "sort-of" into the
hobby.
: white dwarf used to put out cool articles like how to make a land speeder
: out of a used deoderent tube.
Yep, made one myself :)
That thing was cool.
: (yes, I have heard it was tried). The point is, how many of you will not
: allow an oppenent to have unpainted figures? Or a small amount of proxy
: items?
I'm sort of anal about this....
What is the point of playing a miniatures based game, if you're not using
representative miniatures ?
If there are going to be any proxies, or unpainted figs, may as well play
with tokens (just like those in the back of Rogue Trader). You could
probably convey more information, and the cost would be far less.
: JP
--
BigTime Bub
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~sd_fort
" Any children left unattended will be towed at
parent's expense ! "
BigTime Bub
Paul M. M. Jacobus (vam...@access5.digex.net) wrote:
: There's a difference between not wanting to paint, and not having time.
: Personally, having a life, I don't have the time to paint all my figs.
We all have a life (or at least most of us). We all divide stuff into what
we find more important.
: Au contraire, mon nemesis, to me the game is the most important part. And
I think this is what it all comes down to. What every individual reckons
is the most important part of the hobby. Personally, I find the idea of
playing a game with unpainted figs repulsive, simply because that's the
way it started out for me. We'd never drop a figure on the board unless it
was entirely painted. To put a fig on the board you had to "earn" it.
Even still, I don't go out telling people what to do with their free time.
: It takes a lot less time to go buy something off a shelf than find the
: time to paint it.
Damn right. On average I spend 6 hours per Joe-blow Chaos Marine I paint.
It takes about 6 minutes to go to the store and buy stuff you don't need
:)
: And if I want to try out something new, I don't think I should have to go
: buy the figure just to see if I want to use it.
Again, that's simply because of what you find more important in the hobby.
Personally, I go buy figures because of what they look like, or "great
conversion ideas", not because I want something new in my army. Rules and
such are of secondary importance.
The way I see it there are much better war simulations out there than 40K,
in terms of realism, and accuracy. But none LOOK as good as 40K, which is
its main appeal.
This is lost with unpainted figs, or massive proxy-isms.
: see if a new tactic is worth keeping in your gang/army/whatever. I only
: have so much recreational funds, and conversion takes more time than
: painting.
I beg to differ. A head swap, or gun swap takes about 10 minutes.
: Well, I might suggest going and doing that instead. This isn't historical,
: this is just a friendly game. Nothing so anal as historical players
: refusing to play because of my army.
Huh,
It's like the non-painters and the painters are playing a different
game altogether.
: JD
RJDude2
The only times i field unpainted models is if i needed them that battle and
just bought them
Steve
I think that something has been lost in this argument between painters and
non-painters. What about the new guy?
Let me explain, I have only recently begun to build a might orc and goblin
horde to play WFB with. I think the game sounds really interesting and fun
too.
My problem is that I want to play the game more than I want to paint the
figures, and if I wait to paint an entire army, I may lose interest. I see
people playing the game and as a newbie I want to play too! Unfortunately, I
take a LONG time to paint (I only have like 10 models painted and a unit of
night gobbo archers) and would like to play the game before the new edition
comes out!
It is also very frustrating to see my friend paint one undead figure and have
450 points (or whatever) done instantly. Whenever I look at all of my
greenskins and how long it will take me to field a painted army I feel
disheartened to say the least.
So, what it comes down to is would you play a newbie if his army was
unpainted, or would you make him wait a month (Chaos army) or 2 years (skaven
or all goblin army) to play? I know everybody isn't as slow as I am, but if I
tried to speed it up my figures would look worse than they do now with my
feeble painting skills!
Steve
srr...@psu.edu
Steve Miller
Its rather a pisser to spend multi-mega hundreds on WH40K and have some
penis head show up with unpainted figures and tell me he doesn't have the
time or money....get a f$#in' life and paint some toys or spend some extra
on a painter. Don't waste my time and tell me the unpainted lead has this
or that ....paint the fuckers and respect those that actually complete a
project.
Flame Me...Hurt Me....Make Me Write Bad Checks....just paint your G.D.
figures before you play me...or don't...my toys eat nothing!
Steve Miller
Clay Smith <clay....@nospam.eds.com> wrote in article
<6d6jrj$sfu$1...@news.onramp.net>...
mother
Their is a thing called spray paint,
at worst you lazy butt players that moan and moan of all the justified
reasons why you can't paint a little 2000 points, use spray paint and flock
your models,
1. you do not have to be rich to buy spray paint, as shown by all the spray
paint bought in the gets throughout America
2. you dont have to spend a lot to spray paint your models it is important
to aim the can in the same direction of the miniature though.
well lets see what excuses they make one
Peter Cowderoy/PSYCHO
Rob Dean <rob...@access2.digex.net> wrote in article
<6d7mb4$1...@access2.digex.net>...
Yes I do mind! Get lost and mind your own business!
Sorry, I forgot. I intended to make a serious post instead of just
flamebait :-)
I've been playing in the hobby for four ueats, have about 3000 points worth
of Orcs, 95% unpainted, and admittedly quite a shameful number still in
their blisters. Admittedly I haven't played WHFB since the current edition
came out, and I haven't bought that either (Games Rip-off Shop landed a
*great* one there. If they did a version of the boxed set without the
mini's in, I would have probably bought it, but with 3000 points worth of
greenskins, why the hell would I want to add Brettonians and Lizardmen to
the list?). I play 40K using my brother's mostly-unpainted Space Wolf army,
and have one regular opponent. This is due to not looking for them or
turning up in my local GW store etc., rather than because I put everyone
off through cheesy tactics(I try not to go OTT on cheese, but as I don't
paint, I'm obviously in the hobby to play the game, and I play to win) and
unpainted mini's. Oh yeah, I don't play WYSIWYG very often either :-)
Why don't I paint? Time. I'm stuck in a boarding school all week, in a
dormitory full of maniacs, so I'm damn well not painting there. And I have
better stuff to do during the weekend. Like go through my news & mail,
watch all the TV that the goddamn school won't let us stay up for, and
*play 40K*. I'm also going to chuck in the lame excuse of being a crap
painter. The real excuse is that while I could learn to paint reasonably,
I'm not a natural, so the amount of time spent learning would be so damn
frustrating... I'm enough of a perfectionist to want to play with
miniatures where the base coat was done right, or failing that, no paint
:-)
To a certain degree, it's a real shame, 'cos I could have real fun
converting up Bringers of Freedom scouts. If you don't know what I mean, I
posted the current army list last week. (There seems to be something up
with my mail, so if anyone tried to flame me for posting a 550-line
codex-style army list, I haven't seen it yet. Don't be surprised if a month
from now you recieve a seemingly un-provoked flame :-) BTW, did anyone
actually *read* it? And in particular, has anyone played any games? I've
only really had a chance to play against Chaos, where the general opinion
is that I need to go and buy myself some tank models and carry on
playtesting. Hell, I need some way of getting my lascannons pointed at my
opponent's Chaos Lord (terminator armour, displacer field, daemon weapon,
mark of Khorne, impossible to defeat h-t-h)!
Still, I've shown where I'm coming from, and I suspect that while not so
many other people are stuck at boarding school, a fair number of people on
this NG have other stuff hogging most of their time. If anyone decides to
flame me over this, between the nature of my news connection and that
boarding school, I won't see your post until next week. And a week-long
flamewar is the equivalent of WW2, so with a little luck the worst I'll
only be stamping out the last few flickers of light with my next post :-)
BTW, does anyone out there actually care about the tags?
(rhetorical question, please don't turn this thread into a tags flamewar!)
--------------------------------------------------
psy...@nthfen.demon.co.uk
I guess I could always tell you to remove my anti-spam measures...
Try zapping everything after the at-sign :-)
Bill Johanning
Jussi-Pekka Kumpulainen wrote:
> SNIP - much self-agrandizing fluff - SNIP <
> friends buy all paints together so that the paints dont take too much
> money from one person. IT´S NOT JUST A GAME IT´S A WAY OF LIFE!
you DO need to get a life!
Nezach
Carl Parlagreco wrote:
> Has anybody heard this argument with regard to any other system
> besides Warhammer? As far as I know, it's only Warhammer players that
> regularly field unpainted figures for long periods of time. I know a
> *lot* of historical players, and I don't know any that field bare
> metal. And guess what? They have lives, too, and yet they're fielding
> armies that are *much* larger than the little forces Warhammer calls
> for. Take a look at an ancients or a Napoleonics battle some time. I
> can still remember my first Imperial Roman army. I bought a starter
> pack with, I think about 150 figures in it, and that was a very small
> army. And I never considered fielding them unpainted, not just because
> I won't field unpainted figures (which I won't), but because the guys
> I played with would have frowned upon it, too.
>
> So, how about it. Does anybody know of any historicals that have this
> silly argument?
All the historical miniature gamers I have ever seen paint their figs
with great detail. Granted a lot of em use 15mm and 20mm figs but they
usualy field HUGE armies. Not only do they have many miniatures to
paint they also tend to do a lot of research on what the color of the
uniforms were for the time period they are recreating. Some historical
players would frown on someone with incorrect paint schemes as much as
someone showing up with unpainted figures.
Of course in historical miniature games you don't have the problem of
new badass minis being released every month or so. I have yet to hear
"Dude, check out the Redcoat with the Master Crafted Plasma Musket and
Power Cutlass, I gotta get that".
Myself, I don't mind unpainted minis the first few times I play with
someone. But after a few times playing against the person and he whips
out his army and they are still not even sprayed down with primer and
they keep falling over because he hasn't even bothered to glue them to
their bases I get a little miffed. Sure, not everyone has time to sit
down and paint up a 2000 point army (I sure don't anymore) but how hard
is it to prime the little suckers and slap some base color on there?
One guy I used to play against painted up one squad of orks and then
stopped leaving the others to be ghost orks. I asked him why he didn't
paint up the others and he said something like "Oh, man. Look at the
squad I painted, I suck at painting". Sure they wern't great but he had
just started. I wanted to ask him if he had heard of a little thing
called practice.
I know everyone's viewpoint on this is going to be different and I am
not here to say mine is the correct viewpoint. But if I wanted to play
a game where painting up the bits didn't matter I would stick with Risk
or something like that.
--
Enjoy,
Ndege
_______________________________
Every dogma has its day.
Carl Parlagreco
sd_...@alcor.concordia.ca (BigTime Bub) wrote:
>Joe P. (Joe...@Worldnet.att.net) wrote:
>
>: I dont think we have to resort to flaming to discuss this issue. The
>: group I play with has been playing since RT, and thwy have never had a
>: problem playing with unpainted figures. We do not play wysiwyg. I think this
>: might come from the old RT days that anything goes.
>
>Eh ? In the Rogue Trader days you wouldn't even hear of ANYONE playing
>with unpainted figs. The 40K crowd was too small and to into the hobby.
>It's much more commercial nowadays, with people who are "sort-of" into the
>hobby.
>
>If there are going to be any proxies, or unpainted figs, may as well play
>with tokens (just like those in the back of Rogue Trader). You could
>probably convey more information, and the cost would be far less.
>
TiGgEr
Carl Parlagreco wrote in message <34fa2143.46267480@wingate>...
I dunno bout everyone or historical players but as far as I'm concerned I
tend to believe that everyone is different ... they spend different amounts
of time on different things and so what if they dont have all their minis
painted . As long as they're making an effort that's pretty good . I don't
have a lotta time to paint my minis but I try . And I'm not saying this
against you or anything but so what if all my minis aren't painted does that
make someone who has all their minis painted better than me ? But I can
agree that the guy/girl who has had that chaos army ( or whatever it may be)
for about a year and still hasn't put any effort into painting them needs to
seriously look at him/her self and ask why they're playing the game .
Anyways .... sorry for my um .... opinions hehe .....
TiGgEr
Jonathan Couper
Well...
As a newbie (I played my first game a week ago), I'm very grateful to my
opponents for not making too much fuss about my unpainted figures. I'm
lucky - I clean, undercoat, and base colour, and my wife does all the
detailed painting, as I rush to get 1200 painted Dark Elf points on the
table for the campaign. I consider it an essential courtesy to play with
figures that your opponent can accurately identify.
In spite of the demands of a new job and a 2yr old child, the least you
can do is make a real effort to get paint on that lead. I would consider
an opponent most inconsiderate if they didn't make a basic paint job a
priority. If you can't be bothered painting figures, then go play
bloodbowl, or Quake, or Squad Leader, or Monopoly. The figures are the joy
of this game, and if you don't recognise that, you're in the wrong league.
I heard of one player who fielded an army without bases - just layed the
clean, flash-ridden metal down flat on the table. The fact that people
still remember it years on indicates how it strikes WHFB players. I sure
don't want to be tarred with that brush. It's a courtesy, and one I intend
to perform (with some help!)
J.
Ty Beard
We had an interesting idea in our club. A number of players (typically the
"I pplay for fun" crowd) were playing with huge numbers of unpainted
miniatures. We decided to pass a club rule that unpainted miniatures had a
-1 applied to all combat rolls. This simulates the morale effects of having
no clothes on.
The players at least then spray painted their stuff.
Just a thought. Whaddaya think?
--
Ty Beard, Attorney at Law
Remove "nospam" from my email address to reply to me.
Steve
>I dunno bout everyone or historical players but as far as I'm concerned I
>tend to believe that everyone is different ... they spend different amounts
>of time on different things and so what if they dont have all their minis
>painted . As long as they're making an effort that's pretty good . I don't
>have a lotta time to paint my minis but I try . And I'm not saying this
>against you or anything but so what if all my minis aren't painted does that
>make someone who has all their minis painted better than me ? But I can
>agree that the guy/girl who has had that chaos army ( or whatever it may be)
>for about a year and still hasn't put any effort into painting them needs to
>seriously look at him/her self and ask why they're playing the game .
>Anyways .... sorry for my um .... opinions hehe .....
> TiGgEr
I agree with the above. My problem is not that I am a lazy person, it's just
that I am into a great many things. Many people I know who would 'never field
an unpainted army' wouldn't ever have a problem with this because Warhammer is
their only hobby. Personally, I also have many other hobbies including sports
and other games that are just as important to me as Warhammer. I don't
believe that Warhammer (FB or 40k) should 'have' to be my #1 priority just
because it is for some other people. Granted, I just started the hobby and
haven't had much of a chance to paint my army, but I can forsee it taking a
very long time because Warhammer is simply another hobby that I happen to
enjoy, not a focus of my life.
Steve
srr...@psu.edu
Tom Leete
In article <6d7mb4$1...@access2.digex.net>, rob...@access2.digex.net (Rob
Dean) wrote:
> My basic point remains, though, even if you take three hours per figure--
> just say that you ought to be able to paint a 40K army in under a year
> instead of a few months.
I agree, and as long as progress is being made, then that should be fine.
Part of it is getting over that initial hump when you start a new army and
buy a pile of figs to get enough to actually field something worthwhile,
but players who consistently field and unpainted army would probably make
the game less fun for me too.
> If you don't mind my asking (since I'm always trying to understand why
> this particular argument becomes so vehement), how long have you pursued
> this hobby, how many figures do you have, and how many of them are painted?
> Rough numbers are fine.
As for Warhammer, I'm just getting in to WFB - in fact my first big
purchase arrived this week. Less than a week in and I've got about 20
beastmen, 10 bloodletters, 6 flamers, and 4 of my 6 harpies (actually
gargoyles from Heartbreaker - nice looking figs and only $3.50 for a pair
from Travelling Mage) based and arms, etc., glued on. Got a few hours of
sunlight yesterday to prime them (winter here too, but a mild one), and
started working on my first flamer last night (wanted to start with just
one to see how my color scheme looked).
I've painted 25mm figs regularly for about 5-6 years, and have about
80-100 finished, mostly Ral Partha stuff and some Grenadier and others.
Then I had a kid and had to put it up for a while, but Warhammer seems to
have re-ignited the spark to collect and paint (much to my wife's
consternation ;) ). So now my painting regimen is that I have to wait
for the kid to go to sleep and then I haul it all out and paint on the
dining room table for a couple hours, then hide everything when I'm done
so that little hands won't find it during the day (man, I miss the days
when I had my own gaming room!)
I like how my first flamer looks - his body is a basic blue fading to
black at the ends of the arms, and the little vents at the ends of the
arms I'm painting bright orange - kinda looks like a flamethrower nozzle.
The hair is flaming from dark red to bright orange at the tips, but I
haven't made up my mind yet about the beak - bone white or some sort of
yellow like a parrot. Oh well, that's what trying things out is for...
Tom
Avatar
BigTime Bub (sd_...@alcor.concordia.ca) wrote:
:
: Eh ? In the Rogue Trader days you wouldn't even hear of ANYONE playing
: with unpainted figs. The 40K crowd was too small and to into the hobby.
: It's much more commercial nowadays, with people who are "sort-of" into the
: hobby.
Funny, but my first 40k genestealer/chaos cult army is still one of the
most unpainted armies I have right now....I played it in Rogue Trader
time. As always painted minis depend on how anal your opponent is about
such things. I had a group of friends that just enjoyed playing. We all
love to paint too, but they are aware of my time constraints and I am
aware of theirs. If not everything on the table is painted we don't
really care. We want to play and have fun.....
: I'm sort of anal about this....
: What is the point of playing a miniatures based game, if you're not using
: representative miniatures ?
: If there are going to be any proxies, or unpainted figs, may as well play
: with tokens (just like those in the back of Rogue Trader). You could
: probably convey more information, and the cost would be far less.
:
I agree with the realitively WYSIWYG concept, but if a squad of marines is
modelled with all missile launchers and the players wants to use them as
all las-cannon for the battle at hand I don't really care. There is a big
difference between saying this heavy weapon on this marine is a las-cannon
and not a missile launcher, and this token is actually a space marine mini
with a las-cannon. The suggestion of playing with tokens in such a case
is a ludicrous extreme....
Avatar
Avatar
Steve (srr...@psu.edu) wrote:
:
: My problem is that I want to play the game more than I want to paint the
: people playing the game and as a newbie I want to play too! Unfortunately, I
: take a LONG time to paint (I only have like 10 models painted and a unit of
: night gobbo archers) and would like to play the game before the new edition
: comes out!
This is certainly where the MUST use painted figures arguement breaks
down. I don't see where anyone has the right to keep people from playing
the game when they are starting out because of unpainted minis. What is
the point of dropping the necessary cash to buy the game and the minis and
then not use half of what you paid for because of a lack of painted
minis?? What's the point?? IMO, you should play. Play as much as you
want. Enjoy yourself!!!
: It is also very frustrating to see my friend paint one undead figure and have
: 450 points (or whatever) done instantly. Whenever I look at all of my
: greenskins and how long it will take me to field a painted army I feel
: disheartened to say the least.
:
Rank and file are cheap no ifs ands or buts. If you want to avoid a lot
of painting play a chaos army or something like it because there are
usually fewer minitures invovled...:) I am converting minis for a new Ork
40k army in and around my painting and the 1500 points I am looking at
right now is an awful lot of minis to paint.....Greenskins are cheap
whichever game they are in...:)
: So, what it comes down to is would you play a newbie if his army was
: unpainted, or would you make him wait a month (Chaos army) or 2 years (skaven
: or all goblin army) to play? I know everybody isn't as slow as I am, but if I
: tried to speed it up my figures would look worse than they do now with my
: feeble painting skills!
I would certainly play you and help you learn the rules. I would also
give advice during and after the games to help you get a better tactical
sense of the game, unless of course, you show a natural talent and beat
the hell out of me...Then I would be evaluting my own performance for
improvement...:)
All in all, I would not let anyone keep you from playing the game while
you work at painting your army. There are enough people out there who are
not totally anal about it to find to play against....
Avatar
Avatar
Jonathan Couper (cou...@REMOVETHIS.clear.net.nz) wrote:
:
: In spite of the demands of a new job and a 2yr old child, the least you
: can do is make a real effort to get paint on that lead. I would consider
: an opponent most inconsiderate if they didn't make a basic paint job a
: priority. If you can't be bothered painting figures, then go play
: bloodbowl, or Quake, or Squad Leader, or Monopoly. The figures are the joy
: of this game, and if you don't recognise that, you're in the wrong league.
Sorry, but I will not put a BASIC paint coat on a mini just to play with
it. All of my minis get the same painting treatment from base through
detail. I also fail to see how playing with unpainted minis in any way
keep you from playing a miniatures based game. They are, after all, still
miniatures for the game. If YOU don't recognize that people have
different priorities when it comes to the games and minis (some prefer to
play the games and don't see the minis as more than pieces for the game
play, and others prefer painting the minis but don'e play as much...still
others like both and have time for both....still more like both but must
pick and choose which to do when time is available to do it) then that is
your problem. I am an avid squad leader and panzer leader player. I love
Warhammer and 40k. My issue with minis is that I am more interested in
painting the minis that inspire me to paint them at the time and not just
to *paint a squad because my army needs to have all painted minis*. The
two conincide at times. My painted minis collection is quite large, but
my armies still have only primed units in them. If people choose not to
play me in a game of 40k because of an unpainted squad or unflocked bases
(yes I paint my bases and don't flock them...oh the horror!!!) its their
loss, because anyone around my neck of the woods can tell you I am a good
player.
: I heard of one player who fielded an army without bases - just layed the
: clean, flash-ridden metal down flat on the table. The fact that people
: still remember it years on indicates how it strikes WHFB players. I sure
: don't want to be tarred with that brush. It's a courtesy, and one I intend
: to perform (with some help!)
Its kind of hard to make units properly wtih bases. Why is that people
seem to equate those without a lot of time to paint with someone who
doesn't even clean up and base their minis?? Let's get some perspective
people.....
Avatar
Avatar
Balsak JOD (bals...@aol.com) wrote:
: 1:> Non-gaming problems come first (job, family, school, etc.)
: 2:> Figures should be painted, even if it is just a coat of primer
This one is fine and works for me...:) I'd say I have a few thousand
minsi in my collection right now. I'd say about 1/2-2/3 of those minis are
painted. Though some of my armies are still in a state of disrepair. I
just never got around to painting my high elf army (mainly because I
couldn't get the inspiration for how I WANTED to paint them...). The army
is primed though. My genestealer chaos cult, with the exception of my
magus, about 20 stealers and some hybrids are only primed. My chaos 40k
army is the one army that has paint on all the minis and vehicles. My
undead/chaos horder for Warhammer is also painted but for a couple newer
character type models. So, just because someone doesn't have all there
minis painted on the table doesn't mean they are a slacker and refuse to
paint. That is where some people seem to lose track...
: 3:> Every one can find some time to paint; maybe 5 minutes a week, but some
: time none-the-less
I've never been able to paint for *only* 5 minutes. Once I start painting
I get into the groove fo doing so which is why I can't just sit down and
paint 5 minutes here and 5 minutes there...this is included when I do sit
down to paint. I'd say these I can usually fit a single 1 hour session of
painting in every 2 weeks or so......Though I would like to paint more
than that, but the time is not always available. There are certainly
times when I will be able to spend the majority of the weekend just
painting away, but those become fewer and farther between as time ticks
on. I'm hoping that once I start the new job I will begin in two weeks
that my work schedule will be about half of what it is right now (the main
reason for leaving) and I will have a little more time to get back to
painting again...
Avatar
Rob Dean
In article <6deu7o$9...@netaxs.com>, Avatar <ava...@netaxs.com> wrote:
>: 3:> Every one can find some time to paint; maybe 5 minutes a week, but some
>: time none-the-less
>
>I've never been able to paint for *only* 5 minutes. Once I start painting
>I get into the groove fo doing so which is why I can't just sit down and
>paint 5 minutes here and 5 minutes there...this is included when I do sit
>down to paint.
I find that having a permanent painting desk helps with doing things in
short bursts. I'd rather sit down and paint for two hours at a go, but
when I can't, it's better to get something done than not to get anything
done.
Now, a serious question for all of you: A while back, I inherited a box
of the old 36 figure/6 race WHFB plastics. How do you folks mount these
slottabase figures for painting? I usually paint figures with flat metal
bases and glue them to tongue depressors so I can work on five at a time.
That won't work with the tabs, and the shape of the slottabases looks less
than convenient for gluing to a temporary painting stick.
Rob Dean
rob...@access.digex.net
BigTime Bub
Avatar (ava...@netaxs.com) wrote:
: aware of theirs. If not everything on the table is painted we don't
: really care. We want to play and have fun.....
Nor here. The best painter around here usually has a couple of figs that
lack paint jobs, (ie they're just primered, or just one color is painted).
But he's got idiosynchracy working for him. He busted his ass before, and
paints better than everyone else, so nobody cares.
While I would never field a figure that not painted, I don't mind a couple
of unpainted figs on the board. Though you'll never catch me playing
against an "all pewter" army, since its owner is clearly unwilling to put
any effort into it.
: modelled with all missile launchers and the players wants to use them as
: all las-cannon for the battle at hand I don't really care. There is a big
: difference between saying this heavy weapon on this marine is a las-cannon
: and not a missile launcher, and this token is actually a space marine mini
: with a las-cannon. The suggestion of playing with tokens in such a case
: is a ludicrous extreme....
Agreed. I've let several opponents use "lasgun guardians" as "shuriken
guardians" but I wouldn't allow myself to do the same. Sort of bastardizes
the whole reason why I actually use miniatures in the game.
: Avatar
--
BigTime Bub
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~sd_fort
" You're not a messiah, you're a movie of the week,
you're a f*cking T-shirt ! "
Avatar
Ty Beard (tbeard...@e-tex.com) wrote:
: We had an interesting idea in our club. A number of players (typically the
: "I pplay for fun" crowd) were playing with huge numbers of unpainted
: miniatures. We decided to pass a club rule that unpainted miniatures had a
: -1 applied to all combat rolls. This simulates the morale effects of having
: no clothes on.
:
: The players at least then spray painted their stuff.
:
: Just a thought. Whaddaya think?
The thought elitist bullshit comes to mind...a further thought of finding
someplace different to play comes to mind as well. Though is certainly
not as annoying a concept as being confronted by someone for now having
flocked bases. The army I was playing was totally painted, including the
bases and some guy, whose army looked like it was painted by 3rd graders
had the nerve to give me grief about the lack of flocking on my bases. At
that I packed up my stuff and went and found someone else to play. If
somebody is going to be that pathetic BEFORE the game starts...Its just
going to get worse as the game progresses....
Avatar
SkippyJD
On 27 Feb 1998 20:44:49 GMT, ava...@netaxs.com (Avatar) wrote:
>EchoFlaws (echo...@aol.com) wrote:
>: I totally agree with you man. At first I thought "man! I'm never going to be
>: able to paint miniatures! I suck at painting! I don't have the patience to do
>: this!" but then after a while I thought... "man! this is a major part of the
>: game! I can't believe that some people DON'T paint their own guys..."
>: It really is a sense of accomplishment, and finesse.
>: Do you know what I hate most. Having a well painted, colour and heraldry
>: coordinated army. With names for the charactors and everything and then getting
>: killed by a non-painted no time spent on it army that is dripping with
>: cheese...
>
>Umm....non-painted armies do not equal cheese by a long shot. I'm pretty
>sure that I have enough painted minis to rival anything you might have
snip
Hey, do you realize now what he meant?, or do you still think that he
believes that a non-painted army is cheesey?
-
SkippyJD -=-Master of the Hive Fleet-=-
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/2426
ski...@jps.net
Avatar
Rob Dean (rob...@access2.digex.net) wrote:
:
: Now, a serious question for all of you: A while back, I inherited a box
: of the old 36 figure/6 race WHFB plastics. How do you folks mount these
: slottabase figures for painting? I usually paint figures with flat metal
: bases and glue them to tongue depressors so I can work on five at a time.
: That won't work with the tabs, and the shape of the slottabases looks less
: than convenient for gluing to a temporary painting stick.
Glue the minis to their slotta bases. Then use funtack to hold the mini
to either the top of an unused paint jar (not too many people use
titlating pink that often...) and paint away. Usually, these days, though
I tend to just hold the minis by the slottabase to paint them. It takes
up too many paint jars when you want to paint multiple minis at a
time...;)
Avatar
Jennifer Vodvarka
On 27 Feb 1998 21:46:49 GMT, le...@mail.med.upenn.edu (Tom Leete)
wrote:
>1 hour per fig? I spend considerably longer - hell I probably spend 15-20
>minutes just trimming/mounting/assembling the thing before the painting
>even begins. I'd rather be fielding a partially painted army for a while
>than a sloppy one - half the game for me is the painting. But I don't
>want to wait for months to play the game while my army is painted,
>although I could just prime them all white and call them the "cleanest
>chaos warband in existence" ;)
Warhammer involves two things: gaming and modeling. I agree
wholeheartedly with Tom...I'd rather have "ghost" models on the table
instead of doing a half-assed paint job just to have a "painted" army.
IMHO, I spend way too much $$$ on a game like this one to primer my
figs, put a little sloppy details on 'em and go. Even with Guardians,
I'll spend my time drybrushing, washing and detailing them so they
look comparable to any characters I'm running. And the guy that owns
the shop I play at knows it takes me awhile to paint, so he knows I'm
not just trying to get over on all the other players there with their
paint-can-dipped hordes.
Jennifer Vodvarka
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/6712
Congrats to the USA Womens Hockey Team...we got gold!
Aimee and Kirk Macdonald
Carl Parlagreco wrote:
> But I do a little bit here, and a little bit there, and figures get
> painted. I've played against unpainted figures before, and I don't
> find it a problem, either. Until the other guy is _just_ buying
> figures and sticking them on bases, and doing nothing more with them.
>
> But hey, it's my choice if I want to pass up a chance to play because
> I don't like the way the other guy's army looks. And now that I think
> of it, I don't think I've ever done that (although a little
> good-natured ribbing was done, I'm sure). The only reason I've ever
> passed up a game is because I didn't like the way the other guy
> played. I'm not going to bother setting up if I _know_ beforehand I'm
> not going to have fun.
"Ah, sir? Excuse me... Here's my progress card from the A.R. Warhammer
Painting Police. As you can see, I've painted several Black Orcs, A
Swooping Hawk Exarch and a mob of Gorkers since the last time my armies
were examined. I hope that meets the requirements to play against you."
I'm not in this hobby to measure up to anybody else's concept of what
the hobby is. You don't think I paint fast enough? Tough! I'm not going
to slap a sloppy paint job on the figs that _I paid for_ just to please
you or to meet your criteria of what a Warhammer Gamer should be!
--
Kirk "Gimme Danger!"Macdonald
Reply to: hag...@gte.net
Carl Parlagreco
HCamper123
>
>Sorry, but I will not put a BASIC paint coat on a mini just to play with
>it. All of my minis get the same painting treatment from base through
>detail.
I have to agree with this. Too often you see people fork out all this money for
minis and then spend 30 minutes slapping a lousy paint job on them. This also
comes up when you hear people say they spend alot of time painting special
characters but put just a basic paint job on the rank and file troops. If it
were truly the miniatures that mattered, they would slave over each one until
it had a PREFECT paint job rather than slappy one a few coats just so they can
say their army is painted.
Kuma
Right on Avatar!!!
Painted Minis are a matter of taste, but should be painted (An Attempt
made at least). Fretting about flocking is a sickness!!!
Kuma
Tom Beliech
Aimee and Kirk Macdonald wrote:
>
> Carl Parlagreco wrote:
> "Ah, sir? Excuse me... Here's my progress card from the A.R. Warhammer
> Painting Police. As you can see, I've painted several Black Orcs, A
> Swooping Hawk Exarch and a mob of Gorkers since the last time my armies
> were examined. I hope that meets the requirements to play against you."
>
> I'm not in this hobby to measure up to anybody else's concept of what
> the hobby is. You don't think I paint fast enough? Tough! I'm not going
> to slap a sloppy paint job on the figs that _I paid for_ just to please
> you or to meet your criteria of what a Warhammer Gamer should be!
My thoughts on the matter are that you should field painted minis IF you
can. I'm not a stickler on this - I'm so happy just to be able to play
sometimes that I don't mind if figures are painted or not, but I DO
expect them to be at least primed. For example, in 40K my Blood Angel
army is painted enough for me to field an entire army painted, and I
prefer to use the painted figures, but sometimes I'll want to try a
newer unit that I haven't yet gotten to. I PREFER to use my painted
figures, though, but I don't judge people on the matter.
Tom Beliech
Carl C Nott
Excerpts from netnews.rec.games.miniatures.warhammer: 3-Mar-98 Re:
Painting should be done.. by Tom Bel...@southeast.ne
> can. I'm not a stickler on this - I'm so happy just to be able to play
> sometimes that I don't mind if figures are painted or not, but I DO
> expect them to be at least primed. For example, in 40K my Blood Angel
> army is painted enough for me to field an entire army painted, and I
> prefer to use the painted figures, but sometimes I'll want to try a
> newer unit that I haven't yet gotten to. I PREFER to use my painted
> figures, though, but I don't judge people on the matter.
>
after going through so many rules revisions my Ork army is beginning to
look a little tattered. True, I don't paint as much as I used to, but I
think that mainly because my nicely painted Freebooter Minderz and Bad
Moonz with Missile Launchers just sit and gather dust. Or it might be
that I don't want to spend the time WYSIWYGing ONE army when I can use
the same models for slightly different roles in different armies (i.e.,
Skarboyz/Goff Boyz, Kommandos/Blood Axe Boyz, Mob with Swordz and Bolt
Pistolz/Mob with Bolterz) whenever the mood strikes me.
Clay Smith
In article <6df6gm$r...@netaxs.com>
ava...@netaxs.com (Avatar) writes:
> :
> The thought elitist bullshit comes to mind...a further thought of finding
> someplace different to play comes to mind as well. Though is certainly
> not as annoying a concept as being confronted by someone for now having
> flocked bases. The army I was playing was totally painted, including the
> bases and some guy, whose army looked like it was painted by 3rd graders
> had the nerve to give me grief about the lack of flocking on my bases. At
> that I packed up my stuff and went and found someone else to play. If
> somebody is going to be that pathetic BEFORE the game starts...Its just
> going to get worse as the game progresses....
>
> Avatar
I agree with you. This issue is not about QUALITY of paint jobs...it's
about actually PAINTING the figures. There is no requirement for the
completed figure to be a work of art. I would much rather play against
a sloppy-painted army than an unpainted one. It also shows the player
cared enough to do it.
Clay
Insert silly tag line here..
Clay Smith
In article <6d78tc$9...@netaxs.com>
ava...@netaxs.com (Avatar) writes:
>
> It is always so amusing to me to hear the elitist "Armies MUST be
> painted!!!!" crowd.
It's also amusing that only in GW games have I seen anyone if consider
using unpainted figures. Painting is part of the hobby - why not use
cardboard cut-outs? - they're cheaper!
Any excuse to do everything else in the game (read the rules, buy the
figures, play the game, point up the lists, etc.) ...EXCEPT PAINT....is
just a LAME excuse.
Laziness...that's all it is.
Clay Smith
In article <srr120.28...@psu.edu>
srr...@psu.edu (Steve) writes:
> So, what it comes down to is would you play a newbie if his army was
> unpainted, or would you make him wait a month (Chaos army) or 2 years (skaven
> or all goblin army) to play?
Sure I'd play. But the 2nd, 3rd, 4th times it had better not stay
unpainted. I want to see progress. What's wrong with that?? If you
can't or won't paint it, this is the wrong hobby.
And once it's finished, you'll always be able to play with a painted
army! Amazing how that works.
This is the opposite of Historical Miniatures. My friends and I may
spend a year or more working on a project - we're starting 25mm AWI,
for example. It'll easily be 1999 before the first game is played,
because of all the painting to be done. But that's okay, because in
2010 the armies will still be around. (I concede that you really can't
say that about 40k...but at least it's only a few figures...)
Clay Smith
In article <34F80D...@skypoint.com>
Kuma <Ku...@skypoint.com> writes:
> I am the owner of 150 unbuilt Plastic Aircaft (1/72-1/48) and Sci-fi
> kits, 35 Finished (most to near Museum Quality), 300 Painted Figs
> (GW and Battletech), 150 Unpainted figs (mostly GW)
>
That isn't much.....Old Glory sells 25mm figures in bags of 30 (about
$20 a bag, by the way). You can stack up a bunch of unpainted stuff
that way....
> The numbers seem daunting, (they do at times to me!) but you can only
> take them a fig or model kit one at a time, or it WILL overwhelm you.
>
> As I said before, Paint your figures, you will be glad you did!
>
> Kuma
>
> One figure at a time, five figs at a time,.....WHATEVER. Simply paint
> your figs before you put them on the table.
Absolutely. Unpainted = laziness.
Clay Smith
In article <34fa2143.46267480@wingate>
Carl...@juno.com (Carl Parlagreco) writes:
>
> So, how about it. Does anybody know of any historicals that have this
> silly argument?
It would NEVER happen in historicals...
Clay Smith
In article <6d9dth$3si$2...@nthfen.demon.co.uk>
"Peter Cowderoy/PSYCHO" <pe...@nthfen.demon.co.uk> writes:
> I've been playing in the hobby for four ueats, have about 3000 points worth
> of Orcs, 95% unpainted,
Then you don't have 3000 points worth of Orcs. You have about 150
points worth of Orcs.
I used to check out the different web sites where players listed their
massive armies, with a dozen tanks, a hundred Marines, but only three
painted...
It makes me think that I actually have the enitire Blood Angels chapter
- most of it is still at GW (since I haven't bought it yet), but it
should count, right?
Reaver9474
<<Sure I'd play. But the 2nd, 3rd, 4th times it had better not stay
unpainted. I want to see progress. What's wrong with that?? If you can't or
won't paint it, this is the wrong hobby.>>
If that's you philosophy of the hobby, that's fine. That doesn't mean you are
right for anyone other than yourself. There are many parts of the hobby,
playing, painting, converting, designing backgrounds, etc. If someone doesn't
like or have time to paint that much, who is anyone to tell them they are in
the wrong hobby? I don't think anyone has that right. If you don't want to
play someone because they don't have a fully painted army, that's fine. To
many people, playing is more important. I for one, if i had to make a choice
between playing or painting, the choice would be easy that i'd play. Some
people enjoy painting but not playing, are they in the wrong hobby too?
I'm not saying you are wrong for preferring to play only painted model or with
people who spend the extra time to paint. I'm just saying that if it bothers
you don't play someone with an unpainted army. That's your right. But it's
also the right of the other person to enjoy playing more than painting.
Doesn't make either of you right or wrong. What i DO think is wrong (and i'm
not saying you do this, it doesn't sound like you do) is when people act like
jerks to people because of it. I've seen people basically badger someone and
criticize them, even insulting and being outright mean to them, because they
didn't have a fully painted army. I'm sorry but no one has the right to be
that way to someone because their army isn't fully painted. It certainly
doesn't help the hobby, it only hurts it by pushing away perspective players
and painters alike. I wouldn't start a hobby if i thought that people in the
hobby acted like that :)
Brad
webpage: http://members.aol.com/Reaver9474/index.html
"If we deny love that is giving to us, if we refuse to give love because we
fear the pain of loss, then our lives will be empty, our loss greater"
-Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickmen
Reaver9474
>Absolutely. Unpainted = laziness.
No, that's a bunch of bull. unpainted = choice. Just cause you paint your
models more often than someone else, doesn't make you a better person. And in
fact comments like this seem more the opposite.
Ron Dafoe
Clay Smith wrote in message <6dmtka$q91$5...@news.onramp.net>...
>> One figure at a time, five figs at a time,.....WHATEVER. Simply paint
>> your figs before you put them on the table.
>
>Absolutely. Unpainted = laziness.
>
>Clay
I don't post much here, but I have been reading the thread and this is just
silly. I agree that painting is part of the game. I also agree that
painting is preferred. However, the above attitude sucks. I don't see any
reason why all the figures must be painted to be put on the table. I spent
$500+ to PLAY the game. If I wanted to paint the figures and not play, I
would buy REAL figures to paint. I have about 2500 points of Tyranids
(about 100 figures), about 2000 points of Dark Elf figures for FB (haven't
counted them, but I would say 50-60 figs), and about 3000 points of Dwarf
figs (~80 figures). I don't have time in 1 year to even paint 1 WHOLE army.
I don't sit down and paint figures all day, every day. I have to work for
8-10 hours a day (in work at 6:30am out by 5:00pm), spend time with the
family, work around the house, and do other interests......
Unpainted does not mean laziness unless you sit around the house all day
long and do nothing and NOT paint your figures.
There is no simply paint your figures either, unless you like 1 color dipped
figures....
Ron
Noah Dowd
Clay Smith wrote:
>
> In article <srr120.28...@psu.edu>
> srr...@psu.edu (Steve) writes:
>
> > So, what it comes down to is would you play a newbie if his army was
> > unpainted, or would you make him wait a month (Chaos army) or 2 years (skaven
> > or all goblin army) to play?
>
> unpainted. I want to see progress. What's wrong with that?? If you
> can't or won't paint it, this is the wrong hobby.
So how do you define progress? If I have one more goblin painted
every time I play you (say maybe once a month) is that considered
progress? Why in the world does someone have to conform to your
opinions of "progress" or "effort" in order to enjoy a simple game
with you? In the end it comes down to this: "I am intolerant of
others and the way they wish to play this game, so I won't play
with them." Seems kind of narrow-minded to me, but that's
probably the way I was raised ... or something.
-Noah
--
E-mail: no...@anet-dfw.com
Just as irrigation is the lifeblood of the Southwest,
Lifeblood is the soup of cannibals. -Jack Handey
Todd
Clay Smith wrote:
> II play historicals. And this doesn't compare when painting is an
> issue. It can take a year or more to get historicals ready to play.
> With 40k, it's two dozen figures, maybe, depending on the race.
>
Ah ... ya see I knew this would come up. I don't mean to burst your bubble
Clay, but some of us Warhammer gamers own literally 1000 figures from all GW
various games. I personally own about 500 WFB Chaos miniatures alone, something
which has taken many years to amass. They all aren't painted, but I am working
on it.
I can't agree with your two dozen figure anaolgy though. In WFB, If I play a
beastman army, I'm looking at 100 gors just for the r-n-f. That takes a while
to paint. Should I be penalized in some fashion just because a 'holier than
thou' gamer decides to make me an outcast on a game he plays *part time*? I
think not. I am not a player that feels that cheezing out and winning is the
most important thing with Warhammer, therefore my army lists represent
*balanced* chaos forces consisting of many models ... not just a few high point
jobbies. I see painting as an integral part of the hobby, others dimiss it as
fluff. To me a r-n-f is just as important as a character when it comes to
painting.
Should someone that has 2000 painted points worth of chaos and 750 of it is a
greater demon be rewarded in some way? Doubt it. In my book that's pretty
fucking lame. I have way more respect for the skaven painter that sits down and
paints 100 skaven slaves to make a balanced army. Some armies are plain easier
to paint than others too ... Undead and Space Marines in particular. So as far
as I'm concerned, painting 24 models does not make you God's gift to the
painting society. Start painting some *real* numbers of minis with *real*
quality and we'll see how gung ho you remain.
For the recoord, I might mention that I have the same philosophy for 40K, where
I have about 60 painted WYSIWYG guardians and 40 painted chaos marines. Believe
me, they weren't painted in one weekend either.
Paint if you want to, or don't (as long as you aren't a rules lawyer too), but
if you want a "tactical challenge" rather than an encompassing hobby, then play
some Squad Leader.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to paint some minis ....
Todd
Clay Smith wrote:
> In article <34fa2143.46267480@wingate>
> Carl...@juno.com (Carl Parlagreco) writes:
>
> >
> > So, how about it. Does anybody know of any historicals that have this
> > silly argument?
>
> It would NEVER happen in historicals...
>
You are comparing apples to oranges. First off, some of the historical
figs are so damn small, that things like drybrushing, inking and
highlighting are not necessary most of the time. Not true with the 28 mm
GW figs. To get their true visual potential, you must do all of those
painting techniques. Know any historical gamers that spend forever
drybrushing their 6 mm stuff? I didn't think so. Slap a basecoat on and
you're ready to play. A good general rule of thumb ... the larger the
mini, the longer it takes to paint and detail. If I wanted to play with
all my stuff painted, I'd sit down in two weekends and paint an Epic Army
- then my stuff would pass your painting test with ease. Anyone can do
that.
astrid
If everyone followed GW's advice to buy a unit and paint it before
purchasing another one, they would soon go broke! I try to at least get a
base coat on them asap, but when your army has a need, it sucks to wait
until you have time to paint it. I am able to paint 1-2 hrs a couple times
a week, but I work 48 hrs as a teacher and am married. If you are single
and in school, it's no wonder that you can paint an entire unit of IG in a
day or two! Again I agree that models should be base painted or in progress
as you play them. Once you have played with an entire painted army, going
with primered only figs really bites.
Stridarion
Kent & Kat
Alien164 wrote:
>
> In article <34ff4...@news.inet.net>, xop...@inet.net (Muad'Dib) writes:
>
> >reave...@aol.com (Reaver9474) wrote:
>
> >>Absolutely. Unpainted =
> >>laziness.
>
> >No, that's a bunch of bull. unpainted = choice.
>
> >unpainted=job,
>
> What about Saturdays and Sundays???
mnay people work over time, also that is the time spent on
groceries, housework, yardwork, or actually playing the
game.
>
> >or unpainted=newlywed,
>
> Sure, blame it on your husband/wife. They'll probably let you have
>time to paint.
obviously not married. many spouses will i f not also
involved with this HOBBY, will attempt to limit the amount
of time you spend at it not give you extra. beside i would
rather spend time with my wife than painting. and there is
nothing lasy about the time i spend with my wife.
>
> >or unpainted=new baby,
>
> Alternate days to take care of the baby with your spouse.
once again, abvoisly never had children. a new baby is a
full time job for two people. there is no alternate days as
bothe parents spend every minute they have and some they
don't taking care of the child.
>
> >or unpainted=schoolwork, also.
>
> Same as before: Can you say Saturdays, Sundays, or holidays? Breaks (winter,
> spring, etc.) For people not in college: Parent conferences, Snow days,
> anything else. I'm in a lot of stuff, and I have my whole army painted.
well woopy for you. you obviously enjoy painting, many
people do not. something the no paint no play nazis like you
seem unable to grasp is that many people actually hate
painting. they are not lazy, the just wish to play wargames
NOT paint silly little figs.
>
> Oh yeah, you can't forget VACATION!!!!!!!!!!
lets see between sumer work, and reading and house work and
farm work, i maybe had an hour a week on average for my
hobby. i would much rather spend that time playing the game
rather than painting figs.
>
> In my opinion, unpainted = lazyness.
yep and as you just proved like assholes everone has one.
you come down get up at 4 to milk the cows then feed em , go
to school, come home do it agian, cleann the barn do home
work, fit a meal in there somewhere, and then say i'm lazy,
you do not have even have half a clue what lazy really is.
kent
KAYJAY77
Well I am a historical miniatures player/painter. I can vouch for several
instances of gyus bringing "painted" lead that was in one case Napoleonic 25mm
Prussian that was essentially spray paintred dk blue. Another French player
went with the "primed" look
SO it happens in the best of neighborhodds :)..
Muad'Dib
reave...@aol.com (Reaver9474) wrote:
>>Absolutely. Unpainted = laziness.
>No, that's a bunch of bull. unpainted = choice.
Maybe unpainted=job, or unpainted=newlywed, or unpainted=new baby, or
unpainted=schoolwork, also.
Some people aren't into painting much because miniatures wargaming is
a hobby, not a lifestyle. Do any of these people understand the
concept of "hobby"? My Webster's defines it as "something that a
person likes to do or study IN HIS SPARE TIME." Some people have more
spare time than others. It's taken me a few YEARS to get my 5000 pts.
of marines finished.
Ultimately though, who cares? If some people refuse to play anyone
who doesn't live up to their standards as a hobbyist, they're probably
got a bad attitude and aren't going to be much fun playing a game with
in the first place.
It's just a shame that experienced gamers would be such jagoffs to
newbies. I don't care how long anyone's been playing--everyone was
just a beginner at some point.
Muad'Dib
P.S. You know, I'd love to try historicals sometime, but I get put
off by some the people who play. I'm sure the jerks actually a tiny
minority, but it seems that everytime this thread pops up, every
"no-paint, no-play" type starts off their post with "I've been into
historicals since 1978..."
Yawn.
Alien164
>reave...@aol.com (Reaver9474) wrote:
>>Absolutely. Unpainted =
>>laziness.
>No, that's a bunch of bull. unpainted = choice.
>Maybe
>unpainted=job,
What about Saturdays and Sundays???
>or unpainted=newlywed,
Sure, blame it on your husband/wife. They'll probably let you have time to
paint.
>or unpainted=new baby,
Alternate days to take care of the baby with your spouse.
>or unpainted=schoolwork, also.
Same as before: Can you say Saturdays, Sundays, or holidays? Breaks (winter,
spring, etc.) For people not in college: Parent conferences, Snow days,
anything else. I'm in a lot of stuff, and I have my whole army painted.
Oh yeah, you can't forget VACATION!!!!!!!!!!
In my opinion, unpainted = lazyness.
Alie...@aol.com
-insert catchy phrase here-
Terry O'Brien
Very simply:
If there's time to paint, there's time to play...
And I'd rather be commanding my armies, instead of painting them.
And if you won't play with me because I have better things to do...
YOUR LOSS!!!
Just my two cents...
Terry
"The Earl and the Legend will be together at the wall, and men shall dream
and men shall die, but will the fortress fall?"
Kurt
Alien164 wrote in message <19980306003...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
(snipped Muad'Dib's bit)
>
>Same as before: Can you say Saturdays, Sundays, or holidays? Breaks
(winter,
>spring, etc.) For people not in college: Parent conferences, Snow days,
>anything else. I'm in a lot of stuff, and I have my whole army painted.
>
Umm... if you fall into all of the above categories, and live in your own
house, you then have to add - pay the bills, house cleaning, mowing the
lawn, visiting friends and relatives, actually taking time to play the damn
game you bought all that crap for, and just plaing veging.
I don't like to play a game without painted figures if I have a finished
army, but sometimes you have no choice. These days I paint occasionally so
if my Orks have to field a few primered squads that's just tough. One day
they'll have colour but until then they aren't going to gather dust. And if
someone won't play because of that, there's always plenty of opponents
around.
You also mentioned that your whole army (singular) is painted, which is
cool, but what if you play more than one game? At last count, I've bought -
3 40K armies, 3 Blood Bowl teams, two Necro gangs, 2 Warzone armies, 1
Chronopia army, Gorkamorka, Space Hulk, Robo Rally, and I am now getting
into Shock Force (it goes to the top of the painting list - got to love
those figures). And that doesn't include all the "gee I'd like to paint
that" figures that can accumulate after 12 years.
>Oh yeah, you can't forget VACATION!!!!!!!!!!
>
Best time to paint, but when you work you only get a few weeks a year. I
got my Necro gang done last holidays, maybe I'll take a fortnight off to
finish my Imperials for Warzone (only 3 squads to go! YES!)
>In my opinion, unpainted = lazyness.
>
That's the opinion of a twelve year old without much experience out of home
(and no I am not insulting you, just making an observation. I've been
living with my fiancee for 3 years, and most of my free time has been sucked
away since I moved out).
Although, I am experimenting with the possibility of painting my stuff while
I'm at work, should add at least 10 possible hours to my week for painting
:)
Kurt
Eric Harding
>Alternate days to take care of the baby with your spouse.
As a parent, I have to sya this is one of the most humorous things I have ever
read in my life. Geez, do you have any kids? Raising a child is not 'I'll
pay attention to them on Sunday, Tuesday, Thrusday, and every alternate
Saturday"
Face it, not eveyone has the same drive you do to paint, or the skill. Got
your Phd yet? If not, you must be too damn lazy.
Eric
Kuma
And I work at a corrections facility and have children...etc., etc.,
etc.... I still MAKE the time to paint a few times a week.
You make progress and eventually the figs get done. Yes sstudents can
"find more time" to paint, and some have very limited space and
financial resources, but still work around the adversity and get it
done.
"If you've got a job to do,
you've got to do it well,
you've got to give the other fella HELL!"
Paul McCartney - Live and let die.
Kuma
Alien164
>Kurt
Well, what I'm saying is this:
No painting while playing only 1 army, 1 game, and having free time in which
you have nothing to do but watch TV or play computer games = lazyness.
I haven't thought about those other things (bills, etc.) but now I have.
Sorry 'bout that post,
Alien164
In article <6dods4$lts$1...@hourglass.oz.net>, ome...@oz.net (Eric Harding)
writes:
>As a parent, I have to sya this is one of the most humorous things I have
>ever
>read in my life. Geez, do you have any kids? Raising a child is not
>'I'll
>pay attention to them on Sunday, Tuesday, Thrusday, and every
>alternate
>Saturday"
>Face it, not eveyone has the same drive you do to
>paint, or the skill. Got
>your Phd yet? If not, you must be too damn
>lazy.
Or too damn young. I've had no experience with parenting, so I shouldn't have
said that.
Alie...@aol.com
-insert catchy phrase here-
>Eric
Alien164
In article <34FEFA0C...@nash.tds.net>, Kent & Kat <kd...@nash.tds.net>
writes:
>Alien164 wrote:
>
> In article <34ff4...@news.inet.net>, xop...@inet.net
>(Muad'Dib) writes:
>
> >reave...@aol.com (Reaver9474) wrote:
>
>
>>>Absolutely. Unpainted =
> >>laziness.
>
> >No, that's a bunch of bull.
>unpainted = choice.
>
> >Maybe
> >unpainted=job,
>
> What about Saturdays
>and Sundays???
mnay people work over time, also that is the time spent
>on
groceries, housework, yardwork, or actually playing the
>game.
>
> >or
>unpainted=newlywed,
>
> Sure, blame it on your husband/wife. They'll
>probably let you have
>time to paint.
>obviously not married. many spouses
will i f not also
>involved with this HOBBY, will attempt to limit the
amount
>of time you spend at it not give you extra. beside i would
rather
>spend time with my wife than painting. and there is
nothing lasy about the
>time i spend with my wife.
>
> >or unpainted=new baby,
>
> Alternate days
>to take care of the baby with your spouse.
once again, abvoisly never had
>children. a new baby is a
full time job for two people. there is no alternate
>days as
bothe parents spend every minute they have and some they
don't taking
>care of the child.
>
> >or unpainted=schoolwork, also.
>
> Same as before:
>Can you say Saturdays, Sundays, or holidays? Breaks (winter,
> spring, etc.)
>For people not in college: Parent conferences, Snow days,
> anything else.
>I'm in a lot of stuff, and I have my whole army painted.
well woopy for you.
>you obviously enjoy painting, many
people do not. something the no paint no
>play nazis like you
seem unable to grasp is that many people actually
>hate
painting. they are not lazy, the just wish to play wargames
NOT paint
>silly little figs.
Actually, I would rather play than paint. I'm referring to the people that just
don't care whether their mini's are painted or not.
>
> Oh yeah, you can't forget VACATION!!!!!!!!!!
lets
>see between sumer work, and reading and house work and
farm work, i maybe had
>an hour a week on average for my
hobby. i would much rather spend that time
>playing the game
rather than painting figs.
>
> In my opinion, unpainted =
>lazyness.
yep and as you just proved like assholes everone has one.
you come
>down get up at 4 to milk the cows then feed em , go
to school, come home do
>it agian, cleann the barn do home
work, fit a meal in there somewhere, and
>then say i'm lazy,
you do not have even have half a clue what lazy really
>is.
Well, when I said this, I meant people that didn't live on a farm, and had jobs
at factories or commercial stores, and that's it. You, for example, are
defenately NOT lazy. People who don't paint their minis when they are usually
watching 4-6 hours watching TV are what I consider lazy.
>kent
Peter Cowderoy/PSYCHO
Clay Smith <clay....@nospam.eds.com> wrote in article
<6dmu3n$q91$6...@news.onramp.net>...
Nope. The point is that I play games. If you won't play me 'cos I've got
unpainted models, I just won't play you. I play for the game, not the
painting, which a) I just don't enjoy (guess I shoulda picked a different
army) b) I can't be assed to pay for (enough paints for decent shading and
highlighting costs a little... I'm 15, and I have too little time at
weekends for a job) and c) isn't *actually* necessary. Yeah, I'd love a
painted army. I'd also love to have £999,999,999,999 in my bank account...
The real point is that not everyone paints, and not everyone cares. As I
don't know you in real life, I don't give a shit what you think as far as
my own painting is concerned. Hell, if I took in everyone's advice, I'd
have collected 20,000 points of every army under the sun, and not have a PC
to make this posting thru...
BTW, if this carries on much longer, I'll end up having to change the
tag...
--------------------------------------------------
psy...@nthfen.demon.co.uk
I guess I could always tell you to remove my anti-spam measures...
Try zapping everything after the at-sign :-)
Peter Cowderoy/PSYCHO
Clay Smith <clay....@nospam.eds.com> wrote in article
<6dms3m$q91$1...@news.onramp.net>...
> Clay
>
> Insert silly tag line here..
>
I dunno. Personally, if I knew that the only reason it had a sloppy paint
job instead of none at all was so the guy could go round saying 'look, mine
are painted, why aren't yours?', I'd just think the guy was an asshole.
Other here in the UK, GW stores make you use painted miniatures in the
in-store games. Guess who hasn't played in there for god knows how many
years? If you read my embarrassing self-kills post, you'd know why, too :-)
If the paint job was sloppy 'cos the guy was a newbie, I'd give him a
little respect for trying. If he also told experienced players that they
should have their gear painted, I'd politely explain why not all of us feel
like spending painstaking hours to produce crap results. If he still
carried on... hell, he asked for it! :-)
Peter Cowderoy/PSYCHO
Alien164 <alie...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19980306003...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
> In article <34ff4...@news.inet.net>, xop...@inet.net (Muad'Dib) writes:
>
> >reave...@aol.com (Reaver9474) wrote:
>
> >>Absolutely. Unpainted =
> >>laziness.
>
> >No, that's a bunch of bull. unpainted = choice.
>
> >Maybe
> >unpainted=job,
>
> What about Saturdays and Sundays???
>
To *play the game* in? Or maybe some of us have other interests? It takes
long enough to read this NG... :-) Personally, I'm attempting to write a
computer game, studying for my exams, writing music, and also playing a
little 40K. I don't have the time left to paint (and don't tell me I should
stay up 'til 4am just to paint... I use that time for all the other stuff).
> >or unpainted=newlywed,
>
> Sure, blame it on your husband/wife. They'll probably let you have time
to
> paint.
>
> >or unpainted=new baby,
>
> Alternate days to take care of the baby with your spouse.
>
> >or unpainted=schoolwork, also.
>
read above...
> Same as before: Can you say Saturdays, Sundays, or holidays? Breaks
(winter,
> spring, etc.) For people not in college: Parent conferences, Snow days,
> anything else. I'm in a lot of stuff, and I have my whole army painted.
>
How big is your army? Someone with a combat squad of marines and a captain
can claim to have a whole painted army. Likewise, you could spray all your
bases green and all your marines white, then claim they're White Scars with
their weaponry in winter camo. Also, what is a lot of stuff? How long do
you spend on painting? (the last bit's just out of personal interest)
> Oh yeah, you can't forget VACATION!!!!!!!!!!
>
During which some of us try to do something a little different, and some of
us use to get on with all the stuff other than work...
> In my opinion, unpainted = lazyness.
>
Maybe, maybe not. I could probably just about make time to paint in, but I
really don't enjoy it (and yes, I have tried). As the little extra
enjoyment it would give me playing with painted figures doesn't balance
with the sweat of painting 3000 points worth of Orcs and Gobbos, yet alone
the cost of all that Goblin Green, I just don't do it.
> Alie...@aol.com
> -insert catchy phrase here-
>
Here's mine...
incr...@flinthills.com
clay....@nospam.eds.com (Clay Smith) wrote:
>It's also amusing that only in GW games have I seen anyone if consider
>using unpainted figures. Painting is part of the hobby - why not use
>cardboard cut-outs? - they're cheaper!
>Any excuse to do everything else in the game (read the rules, buy the
>figures, play the game, point up the lists, etc.) ...EXCEPT PAINT....is
>just a LAME excuse.
>Laziness...that's all it is.
>Clay
Well, I'm a firm supporter of painted miniatures, I dont mind someone
who is slowly..but STEADILY painting his troops. Or maybe he just
assembled a fig and is dying to try it. It does rankle, a few
unpainted figs do stand out; but I have tolerance for those who WILL
paint, and who are making progress. I give folks I havent played
before the benefit of the doubt..it may be a new army..whatever.
Yet, I firmly believe a painted army makes a more enjoyable game, and
cheeseboys who never paint, but blindly by the newest cheese grom GW
are the bane of good sportsmanship and fun
Carl Parlagreco
No, I am not comparing apples to oranges. I am, however, comparing a
subset of historical gamers to the warhammer gamers. I've seen plenty
of 25mm figures that can take as much detail as the best GW has put
out.
Then again, if you're going to talk about 6mm stuff, do GW players
field unpainted Epic armies? I'm perfectly willing to stay within
general size ranges for this discussion.
Carl Parlagreco
Aimee and Kirk Macdonald <hag...@NOSPAMgte.net> wrote:
>Carl Parlagreco wrote:
>>
>> It's not my only hobby, either. Heck, it's not even my primary hobby.
>
>"Ah, sir? Excuse me... Here's my progress card from the A.R. Warhammer
>Painting Police. As you can see, I've painted several Black Orcs, A
>Swooping Hawk Exarch and a mob of Gorkers since the last time my armies
>were examined. I hope that meets the requirements to play against you."
>
>I'm not in this hobby to measure up to anybody else's concept of what
>the hobby is. You don't think I paint fast enough? Tough! I'm not going
>to slap a sloppy paint job on the figs that _I paid for_ just to please
>you or to meet your criteria of what a Warhammer Gamer should be!
I'm not looking for speed painting. And I'm not looking for a progress
report. But if you field the same unpainted figures game after game,
I'm going to get tired of it. You don't think I'm being charitable
enough? Tough!
Carl Parlagreco
Noah Dowd <no...@bnr.ca> wrote:
>Clay Smith wrote:
>>
>> In article <srr120.28...@psu.edu>
>> srr...@psu.edu (Steve) writes:
>>
>> > So, what it comes down to is would you play a newbie if his army was
>> > unpainted, or would you make him wait a month (Chaos army) or 2 years (skaven
>> > or all goblin army) to play?
>>
>> Sure I'd play. But the 2nd, 3rd, 4th times it had better not stay
>> unpainted. I want to see progress. What's wrong with that?? If you
>> can't or won't paint it, this is the wrong hobby.
>
>So how do you define progress? If I have one more goblin painted
>every time I play you (say maybe once a month) is that considered
>progress? Why in the world does someone have to conform to your
>opinions of "progress" or "effort" in order to enjoy a simple game
>with you? In the end it comes down to this: "I am intolerant of
>others and the way they wish to play this game, so I won't play
>with them." Seems kind of narrow-minded to me, but that's
>probably the way I was raised ... or something.
>
Or maybe it's "I have standards that I don't choose to compromise, so
I won't play with you." I prefer not to play with folks that cheat on
their die rolls, either. Yet I've seen games where not only did people
put up with it, but it seemed that cheating better than the others,
and getting away with it, was part of the fun.
Todd
Carl Parlagreco wrote:
> Todd <kho...@access.mountain.net> wrote:
> >Clay Smith wrote:
> >
> >> In article <34fa2143.46267480@wingate>
> >> Carl...@juno.com (Carl Parlagreco) writes:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > So, how about it. Does anybody know of any historicals that have this
> >> > silly argument?
> >>
> >> It would NEVER happen in historicals...
> >>
> >
> >You are comparing apples to oranges. First off, some of the historical
> >figs are so damn small, that things like drybrushing, inking and
> >highlighting are not necessary most of the time. Not true with the 28 mm
> >GW figs. To get their true visual potential, you must do all of those
> >painting techniques. Know any historical gamers that spend forever
> >drybrushing their 6 mm stuff? I didn't think so. Slap a basecoat on and
> >you're ready to play. A good general rule of thumb ... the larger the
> >mini, the longer it takes to paint and detail. If I wanted to play with
> >all my stuff painted, I'd sit down in two weekends and paint an Epic Army
> >- then my stuff would pass your painting test with ease. Anyone can do
> >that.
>
> No, I am not comparing apples to oranges. I am, however, comparing a
> subset of historical gamers to the warhammer gamers. I've seen plenty
> of 25mm figures that can take as much detail as the best GW has put
> out.
Say what you like, but almost 90% of the historical players I've seen use 6mm
because then they can play bigger battles and need less storage space. I have
seen only a few using 25mm, mainly for skirmish games like Stargrunt where 15
models per side were used. For non-GW gamers, 6-15 mm seems to be the popular
size. And that takes us back to rule #1 ... the smaller the mini, the less
time it requires for painting.
> Then again, if you're going to talk about 6mm stuff, do GW players
> field unpainted Epic armies? I'm perfectly willing to stay within
> general size ranges for this discussion.
You'd have to ask them. I just bought Epic a while back and based and primed
everything, although I haven't played it even once. If I choose to bust my
ass in painting them though, I could finish them to a reasonable degree in a
weekend.
Kurt
Alien164 wrote in message <19980306221...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>
>Well, what I'm saying is this:
>No painting while playing only 1 army, 1 game, and having free time in
which
>you have nothing to do but watch TV or play computer games = lazyness.
>I haven't thought about those other things (bills, etc.) but now I have.
>
I would think at worst it should take a year to put together a fully painted
force for one army, but the problem is every time your friends picks up a
new system, you get to work on the new figures. Result, a dozen half
finished forces sitting around. Unless you play Necro which shouldn't take
more than a fortnight to finish a gang. I painted and converted my Delaques
(from Eldar scouts) in two weeks, and they are still my favourite figures -
especially my sniper. :) But it's hard to go back to an old army and finish
it off when you are into a new system/army, the enthusiasm tends to wane a
little.
>Sorry 'bout that post,
>
Seen worse, so I wouldn't stress. Take it from me, I've sprouted enough
crap on usenet in the last eight years...
Kurt
Alien164
In article <6dpfvq$bk6$3...@nthfen.demon.co.uk>, "Peter Cowderoy/PSYCHO"
<pe...@nthfen.demon.co.uk> writes:
>How big is your army? Someone with a combat squad of marines and a
>captain
>can claim to have a whole painted army. Likewise, you could spray all
>your
>bases green and all your marines white, then claim they're White Scars
>with
>their weaponry in winter camo. Also, what is a lot of stuff? How long
>do
>you spend on painting? (the last bit's just out of personal interest)
Okay, my whole painted army consists of this:
Characters:
Marneus Calgar
Tigurius
Captain Invictus
UM Captain
2 Techmarines
Apothecary
Termie Chaplain
Squads:
3 Tactical Squads
1 Legion of the Damned
2 Termie Squads
1 Bike Squadron
Vehicles:
1 Dreadnought
1 Rhino
Cost: About 5000 points.
I've only been collecting for a year. All are painted to the best of my
ability, and I would have more if I had more money. What I did, was prime, base
coat, and put on detail with one little brush. You could look at 'em and see
the red eyes, yellow shoulder borders, homemade banners, detailed weapons and
armour, and other stuff. One model might be able to compare with "Eavy Metal
models.
Jamie O'Connor
Just to add some more firewood...
I typically spend between 6 and 12 hours PER figure. I don't view
spending 9+ dollars for one figure and then painting it "good enough"
to play with as being worth it. My opponents allow me to paint at my
own pace - I field the dreaded Black Eldar Horde of Doom, but at least
I drybrush them so they aren't too featureless, and there is immense
satisfaction of the squads filling out as the campaigns and battles
progress.
We don't do the WYSIWIG type of gaming - we change our forces way too
often and to cut off all the shuricats on 20+ guardians and
glue/putty/repaint all of them with lasguns just because I can't
afford to give them all shuricats for the next battle because I added
frag grenades for my scouts or some such is purely ludicrous. Quite
obviously I don't also have the money to just have 40+ guardians
sitting around just in case I want to give them all assault weapons
next time. I'd rather drop the $30.00 on a Falcon Grav tank instead
of buying a bunch of figures I already have. To prevent confusion we
have a house rule that we must specifically identify those models
which aren't correct and state what they are actually armed with.
I enjoy converting models - it makes character models much more
interesting than the usual well painted "insert char name". The same
goes for certain squaddies - but if the only dreadnought I have has
two lascannon and a cyclone missile launcher and I want to try a hvy
plasma gun instead for a while... it's no big deal.
I fervently hope you manage to game with someone who paints slowly but
well and is enough fun to play with that they can change your mind.
You've apparently lost sight of the duality of this whole hobby.
Check out the weighting of the scoring categories from the Grand
Tournaments. Maybe you'll find something you've missed.
Jamie O'Connor
<snip>
>Okay, my whole painted army consists of this:
>Characters:
>Marneus Calgar
>Tigurius
>Captain Invictus
>UM Captain
>2 Techmarines
>Apothecary
>Termie Chaplain
>Squads:
>3 Tactical Squads
>1 Legion of the Damned
>2 Termie Squads
>1 Bike Squadron
>Vehicles:
>1 Dreadnought
>1 Rhino
>Cost: About 5000 points.
>I've only been collecting for a year. All are painted to the best of my
>ability, and I would have more if I had more money. What I did, was prime, base
>coat, and put on detail with one little brush. You could look at 'em and see
>the red eyes, yellow shoulder borders, homemade banners, detailed weapons and
>armour, and other stuff. One model might be able to compare with "Eavy Metal
>models.
How much did you spend on 5000 pts on the board? And one of this
dazzling array of troops might be able to compare with 'Eavy Metal
standards of painting. Wow. I'd be proud. I may have a bunch of
unpainted stuff but the stuff that is I've done my best to TAKE THE
TIME NECESSARY TO PAINT THEM WELL!!!!! I primer and whitewash the
others I play with so they're not totally shapeless but when I spend
as much money and time as I do on this hobby I like to take the time
at the expense of (the horror) being able to field a totally painted
force.
Read the scoring categories for the Grand Tournaments and how they are
weighted, points-wise. Maybe you'll find something you've missed.
Tom Beliech
Kurt wrote:
>
> Alien164 wrote in message <19980306221...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> >
> >Well, what I'm saying is this:
> >No painting while playing only 1 army, 1 game, and having free time in
> which
> >you have nothing to do but watch TV or play computer games = lazyness.
> >I haven't thought about those other things (bills, etc.) but now I >>have.
I promise you, you'll be surprised at how free time goes away when you
start adding responsibilities.
And even sometimes when I DO have unfettered free time, I may need to
use it for SLEEP. It's not that I've got less energy since I left
school, mind you, it's that my job has me on really daffy hours, and
I'll often be too tired to paint. Painting is not like TV or computer
games where you can just vegetate while doing them - at least, it's not
for me. I'm not such a great painter that I can paint up a squad of
figures without concentrating on what I'm doing - and THAT can really
sap your mental energy (especially when you're only an average painter,
like me)
As for weekends - I've put all this money into games, I'd much rather
spend that time PLAYING than painting.
>
> I would think at worst it should take a year to put together a fully painted
> force for one army,
Given an entire day to do nothing but paint, I can do a ten-man squad of
figures if my resolve holds up. Last Friday is a perfect example - I had
the day off and my Fiance' had to go off on a business trip, so there
was nothing to stop me from painting the entire day. So I did - I
completely finished four Shock Force figures from Demonblade (which are
great for use in the Shock Force game OR 40K), including flocking the
base with cat litter (for that rocky ground effect), and did the
basecoat, base highlighting, and painting the boots and guns black on
nine more figures. In that time, I went through two movies being played
in the background, a break for lunch, and several breaks to rest my eyes
and clean out the water cup. It took extra time to do these guys because
I was doing them in a paint scheme I had never tried (Urban Cammo), so I
had to experiment on a couple of them to get the effect I wanted. So
lets say I spent about six hours at the painting table, completely
finished four figures with a brand new paint scheme I was trying, and
did everything but the flesh and detail work on nine more guys. I felt
it was a good day's work.
> but the problem is every time your friends picks up a
> new system, you get to work on the new figures. Result, a dozen half
> finished forces sitting around.
Bingo. I have only recently started up an IG-type army, and a lot of my
marines have been sitting on the shelf while I prepared and dabbled with
the new guys.
> Unless you play Necro which shouldn't take
> more than a fortnight to finish a gang.
I have 11 Van Saar guys - Van Saar is pretty easy to paint, and given
sufficient motivation (i.e., KNOWING FOR SURE that I would be USING the
figures in a game sometime the next week), I could finish the entire
gang in a few nights. The motivation is important - if I don't think
I'll be able to play on the weekend, I'm more inclined to play Computer
games - something I don't need someone else involved with for it to be
fulfilling. Having a reliable gaming group would help...
> I painted and converted my Delaques
> (from Eldar scouts) in two weeks, and they are still my favourite figures -
> especially my sniper. :) But it's hard to go back to an old army and finish
> it off when you are into a new system/army, the enthusiasm tends to wane a
> little.
It's not as much the enthusiasm for the old army that wanes, for me, as
much as I get tired of painting the same thing. I have tons of marines,
but I get tired of painting chapter color schemes!
> >Sorry 'bout that post,
> >
> Seen worse, so I wouldn't stress. Take it from me, I've sprouted enough
> crap on usenet in the last eight years...
>
> Kurt
As have many of us (Usenet seems to be that way - but isn't life, too?)
Tom Beliech
Rogue Trader Cult Archives @ http://www.geocities.com/Area51/1323
Drommon
Here let me also add some wood to the fire. My army is wysiwyg and fully
painted, all some 10000 points worth. I have the flexibility to change my army
do to its vastness. Not only that I expect ALL my opponents to do the same,
unless I know they are trying. By trying I mean that they have actually done
something to their mini's other than priming them. The current mini's must be
wysiwyg. I hate coming to a game, where the opponent tells me that 'this
little piggy has a lasgun.' I know some of you can't do this, but I pick and
choose my opponents. Look, IMHO, this is a painting hobby. If it weren't then
white dwarf might as well be black and white. At the very least make your
miniatures battle ready.
Drommon.