[paint] My painting notes, 2003.
John Hwang
it's been over a year since I've posted a copy of my painting notes.
So here's my latest cut, hope some of you find it useful.
/John
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John Hwang's Painting Notes
Here's my version of the basics on painting. I've certainly painted
enough minis (800+) and armies (Eldar, Harlies, Chaos, Marines,
Sisters, Guard, Empire, Orks, Saurus) for myself and customers to know
what I'm talking about.
First, you need to make a couple of important decisions right off the
bat. Are you going to paint Dark or Bright; Realistic or Fantastic?
Quick and Dirty, Tabletop Playable, or Showcase Display (not a
realistic option for the newbie). This will affect how you go about
things.
Dark vs Bright strongly affects which primer you use. If Dark and you
want to produce good Red, White, or Yellow colors, you will need to
undercoat in an appropriate color, such as Crimson, Grey, or White,
respectively. If Bright, you will need to undercoat in black to get
good metallics, and will need to wash more heavily to bring out shadow
details. Dark miniatures tend to have more sinister connotations,
while Bright miniatures tend to be friendlier.
Similarly, Realistic vs Fantastic will affect what your army looks
like from a distance, vs close-up. Realistic styles will use subtler
effects, smaller and milder highlights, reduced contrasts, and muted
colors. Fantastic styles will use bolder effects, larger and heavier
highlights, stronger contrasts, and highly saturated colors. The
Realistc style is better for simulating a "eye in the sky" POV, while
the Fantastic style is better for close-up photography and viewing.
In other words, in choosing between Realistic and Fantastic, you're
specifying how close the viewer is to the model being viewed.
And the last decision will strongly affect your speed and quality.
More details and more colors will take somewhat more steps. Same with
the amount of time you're willing to spend getting smoother surface
finishes, or clean, sharp edges between colors. Note that one can
always retouch miniatures to progress from Quick and Dirty up to
Showcase Display, tho more total time will be spent in the process.
0. Supplies
Get the following: a set of *good* brushes, water-based paint, spray
primer, hobby knife, needle files (various), and epoxy putty. The
knife and files are to clean up molding imperfections like mold lines
and stuff like that; also to file rough spots smooth. If you have
multi-part metal models, you'll need a pin vise, brass rod, and CA
(superglue, which you'll also need for joining metal to plastic). If
you have multi-part plastic models, you'll need solvent-based plastic
cement, preferably liquid cement, tho the gels are OK, if not quite as
clean and convenient.
0.1 Brush Supplies
Good brushes are a the ultimate key to getting sharp detail and
"clean" results. Your best bet for getting these is at a hobby store.
Useful sizes, from largest to smallest: 2, 1, 0, 00 (2/0), 000 (3/0),
5/0, and 10/0. GW's Citadel brushes are simply terrible at holding
their points *and* expensive -- are only good for basecoating and then
as cut-down "stippling" brushes. I tend to do most of my figures
painting with the smaller brushes (3/0 and 5/0) for more control of
how much paint I use, but I'm not afraid to break out the big brushes
(2 and 5) for tanks and vehicles. As with all things, whatever works
for you is the right answer. As you'll be using the same set of
brushes for *all* of your minis, this is *not* the place to try and
"save" money; if anything, double (or even triple) up on the brush
sizes you use most often so that they last just that much longer.
To help your nice, expensive brushes last longer, you're going to have
to clean and store your brushes properly. Clean them *every* time you
use them. Religiously. Anal-retentively. This means a bit of
detergent and rinsing clean so there's no chance for the paint residue
to dry on them. It also means occasionally breaking out the heavier
solvents to "deep clean" them. And then, of course, storing your
brushes properly. Standing up, or laying down, but *never* with any
weight on the bristles. And if you'll be storing them for a while,
"train" them with a wee bit of white glue so they keep a good point.
Lately, I've bought a few of artificial sable "artists" brushes, in
the larger sizes to help with undercoating and basecoating. Overall,
I'm not entirely happy with them. They don't seem to "point" as well
as real red sable: much less precise, much rougher "feel". In
addition, they don't clean up nearly as well, taking much longer to
clean, and the white (clear?) ones are picking up a tint from the
paint. Worst of all, despite my best efforts at consistently
"pulling" paint off them, they're starting to "curl"at the tips.
Conclusion: real is better than artificial. Considering that they
cost about as much as a sable brush, I think I'll prefer stick with
real sable for all future brushes.
0.2 Paint Supplies
All enamel and acrylic enamal paint is CRAP (for brushing) -- it just
doesn't go on quite as smoothly as the true acrylics and the required
solvents will eventually eat up your brushes. Water-based acrylic
paint is a godsend for cleanup and brush longevity -- you'll still
have to use solvent once in a while, but you don't need it *every*
time you paint. Also, if you start having problems with the lids
sealing themselves to the jars, try running a dab of petroleum jelly
over the screw threads before closing them up -- it gives a better
seal, but doesn't let them seal up so tight.
One thing's for sure, you're going to need a lot of paint colors --
I'd guess at least 16 colors (I have over three times that many pots
of paint). For starters, you will need a set of "primary" colors
(pure black, pure white, pure red, bright yellow, pure medium and
blue) along with a flesh tone and a metallic silver of some sort.
Plan on adding key "secondary" colors (grey, green, brown, orange,
pink, and purple) in short order. Then plan on adding "tonal" colors
(e.g. olive, navy, tan, bone) to fill in. You can always mix paints
to get intermediate colors, but unless you have a number of paint jars
for storing custom mixes, you'll find it difficult to duplicate colors
exactly. Personally, I'm very happy to buy pre-mixed shades and not
have to worry about making my own mixes exactly. You don't need to
get inks, glazes, or washes immediately, as these can be "made" by
thinning down regular paint, however, the color intensity will be
slightly reduced.
As for which brand of acrylic paint, there are a lot of opinions.
Here's what I've found: Ral Partha, Armoury, and *current* GW
"screw-top" paint is all CRAP -- Ral Partha comes out "chalky";
Armoury doesn't finish nicely; and GW's new screw-top top paints dry
too quickly, seal the lid to the jar, and are very expensive. Tamiya
is an annoyance, as it takes a tremendous amount of thinning and
mixing to get to work well; worse, if inadequately mixed, it won't go
on smoothly. I use and recommend the *OLD* GW "pop-top" paint (now
marketed as "Coat d' Arms"), Floquil/Polly S, and Badger acrylics.
I'm very curious about the Vallejo paints, but I'll need to finish off
my old GW paints first. I recommend that you only buy one pot from a
particular line of paint and see whether you like it before committing
to a significant investment in paints.
As you use up your paint in the jars, and the level starts to go down,
consider pre-thinning your paints, by adding a bit of thinner. I've
done this for the quite some time now, and here are the advantages, as
I see it: the paint mixes more easily for more consistent color, as
it's not as thick. It restores some of the solvent thinner which
evaporates out over time. It prevents the paint from drying out.
Finally, when working in a single color, I can paint directly from the
lid. So far, I've been thinning with distilled ("pure") water and
"pure" isopropyl alcohol. I've heard claims that isopropyl alcohol
can cause "gumming" of airbrushes, so watch out.
0.3 Pinning Supplies
If you have multi-part models, get a pin vise and some brass rod.
Strongly recommended. Two sizes: 3/64" and 1/32". 1/32" is easier
to work with, but 3/64" is stronger. 1/16" would be reserved for
really big stuff, like Dragon Wings. 1/64" is for tiny stuff, like
weapons into hands. Most of my pinning is done with 3/64" brass rod.
I'm a *very* firm believer in pinning metal-to-metal joints. While
it's possible for pinned joints to rotate loose over time (and then,
only if they're shallow due to the thinness of the part they're going
into), they'll almost never come undone -- unlike plain CA joints.
Lately, I've been experimenting with using floral wire in various
gauges instead of brass rod. I'm thinking that perhaps floral wire
may be the ideal answer for pinning material: Uncoated and rough
surfaced for a good grip when glued in; very inexpensive due to
quantities; and widely available. Hard to say how well they'll hold
long-term, but I'm pretty happy so far.
0.4 Gluing Supplies
Epoxy putty is to fill gaps and voids caused by air bubbles and
whatnot. Usually, this is 2-part putty which one mixes together, to
form a tacky putty-like substance which slowly hardens over time. I'm
not a huge fan of epoxy putty, except for sculpting, which epoxy putty
is the standard.
In lieu of epoxy putty for gap-filling, I've switched over to SGT --
Super Glue Talc. SGT is a suspension of talcum powder in regular CA
"super glue". SGT has some very interesting properties, which make it
generally superior to epoxy putty. SGT is very sticky (not as sticky
as CA; but stickier than epoxy putty), SGT doesn't shrink when it
dries (epoxy putty shrinks), SGT dries fairly quickly (slower than CA;
epoxy putty takes quite a while to dry), SGT dries rock hard (not has
hard as CA; epoxy putty will have a softish surface for quite a
while), and SGT will not be attacked by primer solvent (epoxy putty
sometimes falls apart when solvents contact it). To use SGT, you can
squirt a bit of CA onto wax paper, and spoon on a bit of talcum powder
in roughly 1:1 ratio. Mix them up, and you've got SGT. More CA
improves flow, while more talc dries faster. Then apply SGT as you
would epoxy putty. When dried, SGT can be cut and sanded and so
forth, while formed much thinner than epoxy putty, or to give smoother
surfaces. Some people use corn starch or baking powder instead of
talc, while the airplane guys use "microballoons", and in addition to
acrylic nail powder, there is now a commercial product ("SSP-HG")
which uses ultra-fine plastic powder. I don't believe SGT is a
replacement for sculpting putty, but it does everything *else* better.
SGT is *awesome*!
As far as CA "super glue" goes for straight up gluing and pinning,
having looked into this, I have recently switched over to the slightly
rubberized, "black" CA known as "IC-2000" for all white-metal work.
IC-2000 is just about as strong as ordinary, but much less brittle,
due to the rubber in the CA. It's a suspension, similar to SGT, but
using rubber instead of talc, and much less of it in the glue. Good
stuff, and highly recommended.
0.5 Primer Supplies
And finally, be sure to get spray primer. Personally, I like and use
GW Primer over Armoury Primer -- GW's black is actually black, not a
dark grey. OTOH, there have been a lot of reports of problems
(gritty, rough finishes) with most recent batches of GW Primer.
According to GW, if you swirl the paint in the can or shake it
side-to-side, instead of shaking the can up-and-down the problem isn't
as bad. Yeah, people use white primer, too, but I'm actually not such
a great fan; White primer is for Bright and Fantastic models, and I
paint Dark and Realistic. Though I suppose if I were ever to have an
army with a base color of yellow or white, I suppose I'd consider
priming white. I was reasonably happy with Armoury Grey and Black,
tho I didn't like Armoury White Primer at all. Recently, I tried Coat
D'Arms "grey" primer, but found it wanting in comparison to GW Black
Primer -- less precise spray, and near-white color.
Many people like to use cheaper non-hobby commercial primers, such as
Krylon. In my experience backed, by additional research, these
commercial primers are a poor substitute for quality hobby primers.
Hobby primer is specifically formulated for plastic models. The lower
amount of solvent will not attack plastics, and the fine grain and
tooth will not obscure details. Ordinary commercial primers are
formulated to work on much rougher surfaces, with heavier solvents to
degrease and strip, heavy grain to cover existing paint, and heavy
tooth to take thick coats of paint. In addition, ordinary commercial
primers tend to dry slower, giving more time to pick up fingerprints.
In contacting Krylon, they did *not* recommend their product for hobby
applications; in contrast, Rustoleum did recommend their Automotive
Primer as a possiblity. Of the non-hobby primers, I will only
recommend Rustoleum Automotive (Dark Grey) Primer specifically
formulated as a fast-drying, finer-grained primer, and then, my
recommendation is limited to all-metal miniatures. My limited testing
showed that the higher solvent content in this Rustoleum Automotive
Primer *will* attack certain plastics, resulting in an "orange peel"
surface.
1. Plan
Make a plan of what to paint, in what order. I recommend saving your
best models for last. I know you'll be *sorely* tempted to ignore me
here, and jump immediately on that limited-issue Ancient Great Dragon.
Don't do it. It'll look terrible and you be greatly disappointed.
Instead, start with something simple, small, and ugly -- I'd recommend
a basic monster like an Ork or Goblin. Plan to paint in groups of
5-10 *similar* models, starting in smaller groups. After you get a
few under your belt, it'd be OK to throw in something "special", such
as a unit leader, simply for variety. But remember to save your best
models until you have a better idea of what you're doing and how you
want the entire thing to turn out.
The more models and *kinds* of models you paint, the better you'll
get. Your first batches of models are going to end up pretty bad.
Sorry. But that's how you're going to learn. If you're so motiviated
(about a year from now), you can strip and repaint them later. Plan
on repainting *only* after you're fully painted -- as in every single
mini being painted to a decent "tabletop" standard. You'll be much
happier to have everything painted, even with some of it poorly
painted, than having only a small proportion of your figures painted.
There's been some debate over the "right" number of basic, non-detail
colors to use. It's all up to you, but fewer colors will tend to be
darker and more serious. Fewer colors, with shading, highlighting,
and washes will usually look better than more flat colors. Also,
think about incorporating common colors, contrasts, or other painting
"themes" across your army to tie everything together -- a common
palette goes a long way in unifying an otherwise disparate collection
of models. Experiment here.
I've found anywhere from 2-4 basic colors seems to work fine,
depending on the model. A basic color is anything which you can see
from a distance, say across a room. 2-4 detail colors seems to be a
good way to go as well. Detail colors are things which are sharp when
you hold the model in your hand. When in doubt, paint one model until
you like it, then duplicate the paint job. If you have any
"throwaway" models, this is what they're good for.
2. Prep
Prepping the model is probably the most under-appreciated, but most
important step in getting things to look really good. It's relatively
easy to paint on more and more details and adjust colors long after
the mini has been painted. But re-prepping a model is just about
impossible without stripping off the existing paint and primer.
Thorough model prep is the *only* way to get truly smooth finishes and
"invisible" mold lines for true showcase-quality minis, allowing the
paint to go on without having to cover or paint with surface
blemishes.
If you need to strip old paint or primer, do it now. I soak both
plastic and metal models in a Castrol Super Clean solution when I need
to strip paint or primer. Chemically, the active ingredient is
"Sodium Hydroxide" (NaOH), commonly known as "lye". Most paint
strippers and solvents will weaken and then dissolve CA joints, so
expect to see the model come apart if it was assembled with CA. In
addition, paint strippers tend to dissolve epoxy putty, so if there's
something which was sculpted on, it'll be usually completely gone when
you're through removing the old paint.
File off mold lines and other such stuff. If it needs assembly, esp.
pinning, now's the time to do it. Pins should be at least twice as
deep as the diameter, preferably three (or four) times the diameter
for greater strength. Multiple pins are often preferable to single
pins, due to the "tighter" fit and prevention of parts rotating, but
this depends on the model and joint in question. Multiple pins,
without gluing, can also be used to make "modular" models with
swappable parts by exploiting the inherent tightness of the friction a
multiply-pinned joint (3 is enough).
Straighten spears and swords and whatnot. Flatten feet as necessary.
If you try to do this after painting, the paint will usually flake
off. This is also the time to drill out any weapon barrels -- the
effect that this gives is very, very good for realism, tho it is a bit
time-consuming. Note that flattening feet takes a fair amount of
elbow grease, as you're bending relatively thick metal legs, so get a
good, broad grip across the base, and twist until the feet square up
properly.
Attach the model to the base. This gives you something to handle the
model by as you prime and paint it, to reduce the problem of
fingerprints and scratches. Personally, I also bend the base "tag"
corners so that the dig into the slot for a stronger, better
attachment to the base. As a side bonus, it also allows you to play
with the model before you're completely done painting it.
3. Prime
Priming is *very* important, as the primer is what actually sticks to
the model, giving a surface for the paint to adhere to. Without
priming, the model will chip and flake very easily, as most paints
adhere very weakly to the plastic and metal which most minis are made
of. While it does obscure detail very slightly, as it is another
layer of stuff on the model, if the model will be handled in any way,
such as for gaming, then the additional durability of priming should
be considered mandatory.
De-grease the models so the primer will stick the model and won't be
affected by mold release agents, finger oils from prepping, etc. A
quick dip in a water with a few drops of dishwashing detergent will
usually do the trick. Just be sure to let the model dry *completely*
before actually priming.
Spray lightly, from different angles to achieve full coverate.
Multiple, thinner coats are better than fewer thicker coats, but it's
most important not to spray so much that you obscure detail. You want
a uniform color, so you can see whether any prep work was missed. But
if you can't get all of the model's crevices and hollows primed,
that's not a major problem -- just touch it up with your big brush
before you start painting.
If priming shows it needs re-prep, or the priming went badly (too
thick, gritty finish, and/or bubbles), fix it now: strip the primer,
re-prep as necessary, and re-prime. The sooner you re-prep, the
easier the painting will go, and the smaller the amout of touch-up
will be required. Also, the less time you allow for the primer to dry
and harden, the easier it will come off.
For priming models, I recommend that one make or get a handle to more
easily manipulate miniatures while spraying. Having such a handle
allows one to prime the front, back, and top unobstructed with angled
coverage for the sides and underneath. Using a handle also elevates
the models where they will not pick up dust. Personally, I use a
wooden stick measuring 15" x 1" x 1/4" to support up to 10 infantry
models at a time; a pair of regular house paint stirrers glued
together should work just as well. Longer is always better, as you
can hold more models to prime at once, farther away from your hand to
keep fingers clean and out of the way.
4. Paint
You will find your own ways of doing things here. I generally use the
same painting template for whatever I paint: undercoat, basecoat,
wash, highlight, and clean-up.
First, I undercoat as necessary so that the primer doesn't bleed into
the final colors: grey then white for "light" areas, black for
metallics, brown for parchment, dark flesh for skin, etc. With black
primer, metallics are automatically undercoated, but I need to
undercoat for any light areas. When using white primer, one needs to
undercoat for the dark areas, and "pre-shading" by giving the model a
few dark ink washes doesn't hurt at all -- the dark ink will tend to
settle in the crevices and folds, but it will take quite a while for
heavy washes to dry. And if using grey primer, one will have to
undercoat for metallic *and* light areas. At this point, the model
won't look anything at all like what it's supposed to be, but it will
be ready for the real painting to begin. As with all things, test to
see whether you need (or want) to undercoat. Paints with heavier
pigmentation may not need as much undercoating as the paints I'm
using.
Next, I basecoat the entire model, starting from larger areas to
smaller details, but when basecoating, I don't worry about getting
paint in the "wrong" places. Because I work from the largest areas
down to the smallest details, I'll be painting over any smudges or
errant brush strokes. I generally basecoat quickly, and the initial
applications of paint will be rather sloppy. However, basecoating
details last allows these to be painted quickly.
After basecoating, I apply dark washes to enhance shadow detail. For
large areas, I find it best to paint the ink wash into the crevices
rather than to simply coat the surface -- it keeps ink where I want it
to be. For smaller details, I'll paint the entire detail with the ink
wash. This is the slowest process, as washes take a very long time to
dry, even when painting largish blocks of minis, say 16 at a time.
This is where assembly-lining large groups of minis really helps.
Once the washes have dried, I'll drybrush with the original base color
to more smoothly blend the wash into the base color -- alternately,
one can layer washes with progressive paint and ink blends to achieve
a smoother shading effect, tho this is much more time-consuming.
Afterwards, I'll drybrush "true" highlights with a lighter highlight
color. And as with the layered washes, one can layer highlights with
progressive paint blends to achive a smoother highlighting effect.
IMO, the multi-layered approaches are simply too time-consuming for
ordinary rank-and-file miniatures; I also doubt that most basic 25-28
mm miniatures have large enough surfaces for these to be effective,
but it does look more "realistic".
Finally, I'll do clean-up, touching-up any errant brush strokes before
calling the model "done". As these tend to be very small, they're
quick and easy to clean up. But this is probably the most important,
yet overlooked, step in making a model look "professional". A clean
model nearly always looks better than a sloppy model -- sloppiness
undoes a lot of the effort one puts into the painting. And this holds
for "dirty" and "unkempt" models, too -- dirt tends to collect on
certain parts of a model, not uniformly everywhere, while the messy
items or elements are still distinct.
Major basic painting techniques which should be mastered:
Drybrushing usually saves time for textured stuff like fur and hair.
Starting with black, one puts a bit of paint on the brush, and drags
it over the surface. Then bit less paint in a lighter shade, and an
even smaller amount of paint in an even lighter shade. Note that
drybrushing is still painting, "pulling" the paint across the surface,
not "pushing" the paint onto the surface. As long as you *pull* the
paint, your brushes should not be destroyed by the drybrushing process
(I've been using my brushes for regular painting and drybrushing for
*years* without any ill effects). The key to good drybrushing is
controlling the amount of paint on your brush: you want just enough
to wet the tips of the bristles, but not so much as to paint with.
While this looks simple, it takes quite a bit of practice to get this
right.
Painting and Inking works for paneled things. Other stuff can be
painted, then crevices wetly inked with black or a much darker shade,
then panel centers drybrushed with the original or somewhat lighter
shade. Most metal and armour can be done this way.
Washing with black, brown, etc. works well for big metal surfaces.
Paint it all a basic metal color. Then wash it with thinned down
black (or off-black) ink (or paint). The black should work it's way
into the crevices, taking down the brightness and picking out the
detail. Drybrush lightly with the metallic paint when it's all dry to
pick up the raised detail. BTW, you can also wash metallics with
colors other than black to differentiate different types of weapons --
I use blue for Power weapons, red for Force weapons.
Washing with color over pre-shading works nicely for cloth. Drybrush
dark grey, light grey, and white to pre-shade the model, giving a
black-and-white shaded monochrome effect. Then heavily wash the
entire surface with colored ink. The wash will tint the
black-and-white shading (like a Turner movie), resulting in a
graduated colored and shaded surface. This may take a couple coats
until you get the color you like.
Mottling with different colors usually saves time for camoflague
patterns (e.g. woodland in greens, urban in greys, desert in tans).
Starting with a base color, use a cut-down "stippling" brush and dab
overlapping "splotches" of a lighter and a darker color, finishing
with the base color again. Smaller, tighter patterns generally look
better than larger, bolder patterns -- remember that the pattern is
supposed to be scaled down to about 1/64th normal size...
Patterning (e.g. "splinter", "ambush", and "tiger stripe" camoflague;
stripes, checks, harlequin diamonds, and tartans) is *extremely*
time-consuming to paint. But the fine detail makes them visually
impressive showcases of painting skill, especially in large groups.
Penciling in guide lines is *very* helpful for the regular pattenrs.
Save these (or at least the final patterning) for last, after you've
got a bunch of regular (or basic) models painted. I have one platoon
of guardsmen in tiger stripe camoflague, and that's *plenty* for me.
Shading and/or blending a series of related colors to make a smooth
color "fade" is much slower than painting flat colors. But gives a
more attractive result. Usually best to blend the colors on a palette
(ceramic tile works well-enough, dirt cheap), but blending on the
model will usually work well enough, too. The hardest part is to
achieve consistency from model to model. Best to save these for
detail touches or (unique) character models.
If you're going to make/mix your own paint (for custom colors), there
is a *big* difference between using inks and paint. Inks use a clear
base, while paints have a white base. So inks should be mixed into a
paint base so the resulting paint will cover over underlying paint.
Inks used directly will apply pigment, and tend to "tint" the
underlying color, with the side effect of making it appear "darker",
due to the deeper shade which results. Inks will also give a glossier
shine than paint -- this only matters if you're not overcoating or
sealing.
Experiment. A lot. You *will* have to touch-up a bit after any
washing or drybrushing. That's OK. The touch-up work is how one gets
sharp, crisp edges between colors for better definition.
5. Base the models.
Here, it's merely a question of how much time you want to spend
"finishing" the model. Various approaches include:
Painting the base. Simplest and fastest approach, but not especially
impressive to look at. The only real painting which I recommend is
painting the edge to match the underlying "soil" color, typically a
dark brown -- the green edges look terrible.
Flocking the entire top surface with colored foam "foliage" or
"grass". The edge is painted in a related color. This is best for
simulating the grassy lawns which GW seems to love having battles on.
This is also relatively simple and fast, but I also find this rather
unimpressive to look at.
Texturing by gluing sand or gravel to the base with white glue;
sealing with a watered-down coat of white glue; painting and
highlighting when dry (this can take a while). This is best for
simulating sand, asphalt, rubble, soil, etc. I think this is the
minimum for a decent-looking base, and even then, highly dependant
upon the terrain you play on.
Adding flock foliage over a textured surface gives a "natural" base,
but is very time-consuming. But if you're going for a natural-looking
, super-realistic, and/or model railroad effect here, this is the way
to go. This is good for simulating woodlands, swamps, marshes,
scrubland, etc. Very, very nice, with a *lot* of visual texture due
to the combination of flock and surfacing. Also gives the ability to
do a two- (or multi-) color complement or contrast with the minis
colors. I've decided on using natural bases for the vast majority of
my models, using the Woodland Scenics landscaping materials.
And of course, there are the "scenic" bases which GW loves, featuring
painted skeletons, helmets, and whatnot added onto the base. How
much time *do* you have, anyways??? BTW, if your bases are looking
better than your models, perhaps you're spending too much time
basing... I reserve the scenic touches for commander-type models.
There are some *very* useful basing-related "tricks"which are useful
in distinguishing similar or otherwise identical models. Paint a
"nametag" on the base, so that individual models are named; this is
ideal for skirmish games like Mordheim or Necromunda. Paint a common
"icon" on the back of each model's base, using a unit-specific
identifier, like squad number; . Paint the base edge (or some
portion thereof) in an identifying color. Personally, I don't like
the look of armies using colored base edges -- it's too distracting
and breaks visual army cohesion, but the small icons are very nice.
FWIW, I'm *very* far behind on my basing, but at least I'm all but
fully painted... Or, rather, *was* until I bought a few big batches
of stuff to work on. Still
6. Overcoating.
Overcoating is the process of covering the model in a clear coat to
protect and seal the paint. Some people recommend overcoating while
one paints, after each major step in painting. Most people only
overcoat when done painting. Overcoating between painting makes
sense when it'll be a while between steps, or when playing with
partially-painted minis.
I've seen gloss overcoating (e.g. nail polish) and it just doesn't
look very good because it's not realistic. At all. Maybe,
drop-by-drop for gems and such, but definitely not for normal
surfaces. Flat or semi-gloss surfaces look much better, as they're
more realistic, more scale.
I've not yet done much overcoating, waiting for everything to be
painted and based to standard, first. I intend to use Krylon Satin, as
it comes well-recommended.
7. Philosophy
This is a large document, and hopefully, you find it useful in
sparking ideas about how you might tackle your next painting project.
By no means should this be considered the final word in painting
miniatures. Rather, it's simply one person's (my)approaches and
opinions, collected together into a single document. Hopefully, I've
been clear in noting what are my personal opinions, biases, and
preferences, and my commentary is helpful in your development of your
own techniques, approaches, and ultimately, style.
John Hwang -- JohnHw...@cs.com.no.com.
v.7 - r.2003.04.27
--
--- John Hwang "JohnHw...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
Kellopyy
"John Hwang"
> John Hwang's Painting Notes
<snip>
Thanks John. That was intresting to read.
-Kellopyy
Maka
> The
> Realistc style is better for simulating a "eye in the sky" POV, while
> the Fantastic style is better for close-up photography and viewing.
Isn't this reversed? Fantastic looks better at arms length, while
Realistic looks good up close.
> As for which brand of acrylic paint, there are a lot of opinions.
> Here's what I've found: Ral Partha, Armoury, and *current* GW
> "screw-top" paint is all CRAP
For good CHEAP paint, I recomend Delta-Ceramcoat. You can get a 2 oz
bottle for $1.29 to $0.89 depending on where you shop.
> 0.5 Primer Supplies
>
> And finally, be sure to get spray primer.
I also recomend getting a paint pot of primer. It will let you prime
areas missed by the spray, or prime a small part quickly when you
don't want to drag out the spray cans and spray box.
> 1. Plan
>
> Make a plan of what to paint, in what order. I recommend saving your
> best models for last. I know you'll be *sorely* tempted to ignore me
> here, and jump immediately on that limited-issue Ancient Great Dragon.
> Don't do it. It'll look terrible and you be greatly disappointed.
> Instead, start with something simple, small, and ugly -- I'd recommend
> a basic monster like an Ork or Goblin. Plan to paint in groups of
> 5-10 *similar* models, starting in smaller groups.
If you're painting for WHFB, I'd paint a whole rank at a time. This
way, all mixing and blending stays fairly constant.
> There's been some debate over the "right" number of basic, non-detail
> colors to use. It's all up to you, but fewer colors will tend to be
> darker and more serious. Fewer colors, with shading, highlighting,
> and washes will usually look better than more flat colors. Also,
> think about incorporating common colors, contrasts, or other painting
> "themes" across your army to tie everything together -- a common
> palette goes a long way in unifying an otherwise disparate collection
> of models. Experiment here.
This depends entirly on the army. Rank and file Empire swordsmen
sould have a theme going, but what about militia and dualists? I'd be
disapointed if I could count the number of colors in a unit of
Militia.
> I've found anywhere from 2-4 basic colors seems to work fine,
> depending on the model. A basic color is anything which you can see
> from a distance, say across a room. 2-4 detail colors seems to be a
> good way to go as well. Detail colors are things which are sharp when
> you hold the model in your hand. When in doubt, paint one model until
> you like it, then duplicate the paint job. If you have any
> "throwaway" models, this is what they're good for.
Save yourself a lot of headache and keep track of what colors you
used. I have a great look Confrontation Wolfen, painted while
drinking quite a bit with RTM. I still have 4 more bare metal and I
have no idea what I used for the first one.
> 5. Base the models.
Ohh, another chance to make a snide comment about Hwang and his
unbased armies...
> FWIW, I'm *very* far behind on my basing, but at least I'm all but
> fully painted... Or, rather, *was* until I bought a few big batches
> of stuff to work on. Still
Drat.
> 6. Overcoating.
>
> I've seen gloss overcoating (e.g. nail polish) and it just doesn't
> look very good because it's not realistic. At all. Maybe,
> drop-by-drop for gems and such, but definitely not for normal
> surfaces. Flat or semi-gloss surfaces look much better, as they're
> more realistic, more scale.
I do like a mix of overcoats. I painted a few space marines black and
white, and did a gloss overcoat on the black shoulder pads. Looks
good. Also, a gloss finish on a tongue gives it a moist look. Please
though, do not use gloss on flesh, it looks aweful.
> 7. Philosophy
>
> This is a large document, and hopefully, you find it useful in
> sparking ideas about how you might tackle your next painting project.
> By no means should this be considered the final word in painting
> miniatures. Rather, it's one simple person's (my)approaches and
> opinions, collected together into a single document. Hopefully, I've
> been clear in noting what are my personal opinions, biases, and
> preferences, and my commentary is helpful in your development of your
> own techniques, approaches, and ultimately, style.
>
> John Hwang -- JohnHw...@cs.com.no.com.
> v.7 - r.2003.04.27
Good article.
-Maka
P Bowles
M_St...@hotmail.com (Maka) writes:
>> 1. Plan
>>
>> Make a plan of what to paint, in what order. I recommend saving your
>> best models for last. I know you'll be *sorely* tempted to ignore me
>> here, and jump immediately on that limited-issue Ancient Great Dragon.
>> Don't do it. It'll look terrible and you be greatly disappointed.
I have to say, I'm in the process of redoing my Wood Elf characters at the
moment - replacing an old, hideously-done plastic WHQ Wood Elf and a Scout
Champion (who can be salvaged, but I want something more special for my
Heroes), and with an archmage, general and army standard bearer still to paint.
Then I'll have to take paint stripper to Illariel (my infantry mage) and
replace the mounted general (painstripping or repainting models on horses is a
real pain - I'm doing my best to salvage my very first batch of Glade Riders,
but they're bound to be a mess even so).
>> Instead, start with something simple, small, and ugly -- I'd recommend
>> a basic monster like an Ork or Goblin. Plan to paint in groups of
>> 5-10 *similar* models, starting in smaller groups.
The problem I have with my Wood Elves is that I've been building the army on
and off since the army book was released six years or so ago, and I started off
as little more than a novice paintwise (not thinning paints, no shading or
highlighting, messy attempts at detailing, red splotches for gems and so
forth). My Glade Guard regiment has grown about three times in those years,
with different levels of painting skill on each batch.
The last time I started painting an all-new army, when I rebuilt my Eldar army
from scratch this edition, I painted everything that shared a colour scheme
together (yes, with Guardians, Farseers, Warlocks and vehicles this took some
time), squad by squad.
>If you're painting for WHFB, I'd paint a whole rank at a time. This
>way, all mixing and blending stays fairly constant.
Or just paint the whole regiment in one batch.
>> There's been some debate over the "right" number of basic, non-detail
>> colors to use. It's all up to you, but fewer colors will tend to be
>> darker and more serious. Fewer colors, with shading, highlighting,
>> and washes will usually look better than more flat colors.
Another thing I learned through Wood Elves - though I chose a 'flatter' scheme
for the Eldar with only basic shading and bright highlights which I feel works.
Also,
>> think about incorporating common colors, contrasts, or other painting
>> "themes" across your army to tie everything together -- a common
>> palette goes a long way in unifying an otherwise disparate collection
>> of models. Experiment here.
On this subject - does anyone have a good colour combination or blending scheme
for producing auburn hair? I'm thinking a mix of Bubonic Brown and Fiery Orange
(to use GW shades for reference, and because they're what I have available),
but I'm not sure how many layers to use or proportions. I don't mix colours
very often, tending to use a succession of lighter basecoats and highlights
instead.
>This depends entirly on the army. Rank and file Empire swordsmen
>sould have a theme going, but what about militia and dualists? I'd be
>disapointed if I could count the number of colors in a unit of
>Militia.
I'd paint Militia much the same way I paint Scouts - three or four colours, all
shades of brown (well, they have green tunics, metallic belts, red gems - but
in general they're brown). Militia are peasants - they won't wear especially
gaudy clothing.
>> 5. Base the models.
>
>Ohh, another chance to make a snide comment about Hwang and his
>unbased armies...
I must admit I'm lazy enough to paint green and be done with it.
>> 6. Overcoating.
>>
>> I've seen gloss overcoating (e.g. nail polish) and it just doesn't
>> look very good because it's not realistic. At all.
I really don't like it, but then I make the mistake of not varnishing at all.
That way, I can just wait for the paint to fall off instead of stripping... Now
I'm painting to a standard I doubt I'll want to go over again soon, I should
really get the matt out.
Philip Bowles
Helicon_One
"Maka" <M_St...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:786bada8.03042...@posting.google.com...
> > As for which brand of acrylic paint, there are a lot of opinions.
> > Here's what I've found: Ral Partha, Armoury, and *current* GW
> > "screw-top" paint is all CRAP
>
> For good CHEAP paint, I recomend Delta-Ceramcoat.
Missed the start of this thread, so I'll ask here. What are Tamiya acrylics
like? The model shop in town stocks them, they're cheaper than Citadels for
the quantity, anyone have experience using them compared with Citadels?
Tim
----------------
"You're quite funny. But since I'm German and thus
have no humour, I have to killfile you."
- Martin Schmidt - Usenet out take
Robert Singers
> Missed the start of this thread, so I'll ask here. What are Tamiya
> acrylics like? The model shop in town stocks them, they're cheaper
> than Citadels for the quantity, anyone have experience using them
> compared with Citadels?
They're ok for vehicles not good for minis. They form a "skin" very
quickly. You might be able to adjust your painting style to cope but I
find it too annoying. Batching painting in a smaller scale they might be
ok.
--
Rob Singers
RGMW FAQ Maintainer. See it @ http://www.rgmw.org
Send submissions to submissions at rgmw dot org changing the obvious.
"I present to RGMW....the real life model for StrongBad." (c) Inc 2003
Andy O'Neill
news:b8jtpd$qje$2...@hercules.btinternet.com...
<<>>
> Missed the start of this thread, so I'll ask here. What are Tamiya
acrylics
> like?
I don't like them.
They airbrush quite well and the pigment is very finely ground.
I far prefer liquitex, vallejo or even cheap art store acrylics.
--
Regards,
Andy O'Neill
www.wargamer.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.htm
or, for no javascript and a faster load...
www.wargamer.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sitemap.htm
MJB
"John Hwang" <JohnHw...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:c385d34a.03042...@posting.google.com...
>
> John Hwang's Painting Notes
>
> 0.1 Brush Supplies
> Conclusion: real is better than artificial. Considering that they
> cost about as much as a sable brush, I think I'll prefer stick with
> real sable for all future brushes.
Wow - I'm in total disagreement with you on this John. I replaced ALL
my natural sable brushes - with the exception of a single 10/0 red
sable pointer I just use for eyeballs - with acrylic brushes. And I
learned how to take advantage of the curve the brushes developed as
well as the point. Plus acrylics last a lot longer than natural
hair - I'm using brushes for well over a year before I even consider
replacing them. And I paint figures for a livelyhood.
>
> 0.2 Paint Supplies
> As for which brand of acrylic paint, there are a lot of opinions.
> Here's what I've found
I use Ceramcoat acrylic paints from Duncan almost exculsively - with
the exception of metallics, which I prefer Hobby paints like reaper
and Ral Partha for. GW paint is absolute crap. I won't use it even
when it's given to me as a gift.
>
> 0.3 Pinning Supplies
On this John speaks with much expertise. And I appreciated it much
later than I should have.
>
> 0.4 Gluing Supplies
Horses for courses. I use three types of glue for metal and
metal/plastic models - epoxy putty, plain old glue-pen style super
glue and LIQUID NAIL. Can't recommend it highly enough. Love the
stuff.
> 0.5 Primer Supplies
.
>
> Many people like to use cheaper non-hobby commercial primers, such
as
> Krylon. In my experience backed, by additional research, these
> commercial primers are a poor substitute for quality hobby primers
Pah. The 'hobby' primers, IMO, are simply a rip-off. I've tried 'em
both and have never noticed any appreciable difference in either
quality or use. I just use Krylon black and white primer.
> 6. Overcoating.
>
> I've not yet done much overcoating, waiting for everything to be
> painted and based to standard, first. I intend to use Krylon Satin,
as
> it comes well-recommended.
Which is what I use - exclusively.
>
>
> 7. Philosophy
>
> This is a large document, and hopefully, you find it useful in
> sparking ideas about how you might tackle your next painting
project.
Thanks for going to the trouble - I pretty much did the same thing.
Except I put it on my website under painting tips. With pictures of
my models.
Here's hoping you'll be able to do likewise, because I would really
like to see your actual results.
--
MJB
My email address is munged : to reply directly, replace 'OLD' with
'new'.
Please visit Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/
Robert Singers
> Thanks for going to the trouble - I pretty much did the same thing.
> Except I put it on my website under painting tips. With pictures of
> my models.
You know that you can send me a photo and I could put it in the Rogue's
Gallery linked to your site. Then you'd be officially famous :-)
Blackheart
>
>Thanks for going to the trouble - I pretty much did the same thing.
>Except I put it on my website under painting tips. With pictures of
>my models.
>
>Here's hoping you'll be able to do likewise, because I would really
>like to see your actual results.
i think our man Hwang has some pictures of his stuff on the genbus
photo section...
Kurt
> "John Hwang" <JohnHw...@cs.com> wrote in message
> news:c385d34a.03042...@posting.google.com...
>>
>> John Hwang's Painting Notes
>
>> Conclusion: real is better than artificial. Considering that they
>> cost about as much as a sable brush, I think I'll prefer stick with
>> real sable for all future brushes.
>
> Wow - I'm in total disagreement with you on this John. I replaced ALL
> my natural sable brushes - with the exception of a single 10/0 red
> sable pointer I just use for eyeballs - with acrylic brushes. And I
> learned how to take advantage of the curve the brushes developed as
> well as the point. Plus acrylics last a lot longer than natural
> hair - I'm using brushes for well over a year before I even consider
> replacing them. And I paint figures for a livelyhood.
>
I didn't like the really fine brushes, I could never get a nice even line
with them. Do you buy the really good ones, or just the generic brushes
from the craft shop?
>> 0.2 Paint Supplies
>
>> As for which brand of acrylic paint, there are a lot of opinions.
>> Here's what I've found
>
> I use Ceramcoat acrylic paints from Duncan almost exculsively - with
> the exception of metallics, which I prefer Hobby paints like reaper
> and Ral Partha for. GW paint is absolute crap. I won't use it even
> when it's given to me as a gift.
>
Vallejo paints I've tried (mostly browns) and I used to like Polly S, but
they were a shit to keep thin. Partha and Reaper are better than GW.
I'll have to see if Ceramcoat is available here, I've heard a couple of
people comment on them now.
>> 0.5 Primer Supplies
> .
>>
>> Many people like to use cheaper non-hobby commercial primers, such
> as
>> Krylon. In my experience backed, by additional research, these
>> commercial primers are a poor substitute for quality hobby primers
>
> Pah. The 'hobby' primers, IMO, are simply a rip-off. I've tried 'em
> both and have never noticed any appreciable difference in either
> quality or use. I just use Krylon black and white primer.
>
I've given up on the stupid hobby primers, especially GW insta-carpet. In
Australia there are a couple of brands you can buy from Big W which work
perfectly and last far longer than hobby primers (in particular an auto
primer that is very good for metals, and a lot of plastics although some
plastics don't like it at all).
>> 6. Overcoating.
>>
>> I've not yet done much overcoating, waiting for everything to be
>> painted and based to standard, first. I intend to use Krylon Satin,
> as
>> it comes well-recommended.
>
> Which is what I use - exclusively.
>
I found a coat of Testors Dullcote over a gloss enamel gives the nice flat
effect, with the extra durability that you don't get from a matte alone.
--
K *Kill the nospam to reply*
To whom it may concern - clinical studies have shown that 89.3% of those
surveyed suggested that you might wish to try inserting a saguaro cactus
into one or more of your bodily orifices.
-- RGMW outtake
pat
> > As for which brand of acrylic paint, there are a lot of opinions.
> > Here's what I've found: Ral Partha, Armoury, and *current* GW
> > "screw-top" paint is all CRAP
>
> For good CHEAP paint, I recomend Delta-Ceramcoat. You can get a 2 oz
> bottle for $1.29 to $0.89 depending on where you shop.
Very, very highly recommended! The black is a perfect match for GW
primer. The white is the best on the market. They have a huge range,
making shading and highlighting large numbers a breeze (as you won't
have to do any mixing).
>
> > 0.5 Primer Supplies
> >
> > And finally, be sure to get spray primer.
>
> I also recomend getting a paint pot of primer. It will let you prime
> areas missed by the spray, or prime a small part quickly when you
> don't want to drag out the spray cans and spray box.
Or if you end up switching a weapon or adding something like an honor
of some type.
> > 5. Base the models.
>
> Ohh, another chance to make a snide comment about Hwang and his
> unbased armies...
>
> > FWIW, I'm *very* far behind on my basing, but at least I'm all but
> > fully painted... Or, rather, *was* until I bought a few big batches
> > of stuff to work on. Still
>
> Drat.
A method I have become addicted to is using undiluted Ceramcoat to
paint a heavy coat of the color I want on the base (top only) then
immediately dip in fine sand. Let it dry, then wash the base with ink
or wash. A light drybrush, and it's done. Looks great, and the sand
sticks better than it usually does with Elmer's.
>
> > 6. Overcoating.
> >
Let us know if the Krylon works out. I've been looking for a true
"flat" overcoat.
As for overcoats and decals, one should normally apply the overcoat
before the decals, as water-slide transfers work better on a sealed
surface. then apply another thin overcoat to seal the transfer. ALWAYS
test your overcoat over transfers you use, as some will have some
nasty reactions. Don't trust the fact that the transfers come from the
same company...test a transfer from each sheet.
One more thing...if you wash your minis before priming, make sure you
use a detergent with no perfumes or any other kind of oily additives.
The primer will peel right off after it dries!
Pat
John Hwang
>"Maka" <M_St...@hotmail.com> wrote ...
>> JohnHw...@cs.com (John Hwang)
>> > John Hwang's Painting Notes
>
>> > As for which brand of acrylic paint, there are a lot of opinions.
>> > Here's what I've found: Ral Partha, Armoury, and *current* GW
>> > "screw-top" paint is all CRAP
>>
>> For good CHEAP paint, I recomend Delta-Ceramcoat.
>
>Missed the start of this thread,
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=c385d34a.0304270934.4c54afc6%40postin
g.google.com
>so I'll ask here. What are Tamiya acrylics like?
I wrote:
"Tamiya is an annoyance, as it takes a tremendous amount of thinning and mixing
to get to work well; worse, if inadequately mixed, it won't go on smoothly. "
>The model shop in town stocks them, they're cheaper than Citadels for
>the quantity,
Nearly *anything* beats Citadel for cost and value.
>anyone have experience using them compared with Citadels?
Tamiya isn't really an acrylic -- it's an acrylic-enamel hybrid. It really
needs to be stirred for a long time, preferably mechanically, before brushing.
Or it needs to be airbrushed. It's almost as a proprietary line, being a
hybrid, it doesn't mix normally.
I'd steer you toward
John Hwang
>Good read, John! Just wanted to add a few comments to Maka's...
Sure, fire away!
>> > As for which brand of acrylic paint, there are a lot of opinions.
>> > Here's what I've found: Ral Partha, Armoury, and *current* GW
>> > "screw-top" paint is all CRAP
>>
>> For good CHEAP paint, I recomend Delta-Ceramcoat. You can get a 2 oz
>> bottle for $1.29 to $0.89 depending on where you shop.
>
>Very, very highly recommended! The black is a perfect match for GW
>primer. The white is the best on the market. They have a huge range,
>making shading and highlighting large numbers a breeze (as you won't
>have to do any mixing).
So noted. I'll look into these. Eventually. :)
>> > 0.5 Primer Supplies
>> >
>> > And finally, be sure to get spray primer.
>>
>> I also recomend getting a paint pot of primer. It will let you prime
>> areas missed by the spray, or prime a small part quickly when you
>> don't want to drag out the spray cans and spray box.
>
>Or if you end up switching a weapon or adding something like an honor
>of some type.
To date, this hasn't been a major concern. Usually, individual bitz to swap
get primed separately on a pin.
>> > 5. Base the models.
>>
>> Ohh, another chance to make a snide comment about Hwang and his
>> unbased armies...
>>
>> > FWIW, I'm *very* far behind on my basing, but at least I'm all but
>> > fully painted... Or, rather, *was* until I bought a few big batches
>> > of stuff to work on. Still
>>
>> Drat.
>
>A method I have become addicted to is using undiluted Ceramcoat to
>paint a heavy coat of the color I want on the base (top only) then
>immediately dip in fine sand. Let it dry, then wash the base with ink
>or wash. A light drybrush, and it's done. Looks great, and the sand
>sticks better than it usually does with Elmer's.
Hmm... I think I'll still prefer to work with PVA of some flavor, as I'll be
working with railroad stuff, which is supposed to use PVA.
>> > 6. Overcoating.
>
>Let us know if the Krylon works out. I've been looking for a true
>"flat" overcoat.
I just noticed Rustoleum makes overcoat as well. I wonder if it'd be too "hot"
to use over acrylics.
>As for overcoats and decals, one should normally apply the overcoat
>before the decals, as water-slide transfers work better on a sealed
>surface. then apply another thin overcoat to seal the transfer. ALWAYS
>test your overcoat over transfers you use, as some will have some
>nasty reactions. Don't trust the fact that the transfers come from the
>same company...test a transfer from each sheet.
True. I've seen transfers start clear and end up yellow after sealing.
>One more thing...if you wash your minis before priming, make sure you
>use a detergent with no perfumes or any other kind of oily additives.
>The primer will peel right off after it dries!
So, damned if you do, ... :P
John Hwang
>"John Hwang" <JohnHw...@cs.com> wrote ...
>>
>> John Hwang's Painting Notes
>.>
>>
>> 0.1 Brush Supplies
>
>> Conclusion: real is better than artificial. Considering that they
>> cost about as much as a sable brush, I think I'll prefer stick with
>> real sable for all future brushes.
>
>Wow - I'm in total disagreement with you on this John.
That's part of the point here, to draw out some interesting discussions. :)
>I replaced ALL
>my natural sable brushes - with the exception of a single 10/0 red
>sable pointer I just use for eyeballs - with acrylic brushes. And I
>learned how to take advantage of the curve the brushes developed as
>well as the point.
I'll revisit them. But they're definitely not the same, and they definitely
don't quite work the same. So after years of painting with natural brushes,
these particular changes weren't particularly welcome.
>Plus acrylics last a lot longer than natural
>hair - I'm using brushes for well over a year before I even consider
>replacing them. And I paint figures for a livelyhood.
My good sable brushes are still good enough, all of which are years old now.
Hard to say whether the longevity makes a difference if I don't warm to them.
>> 0.2 Paint Supplies
>
>> As for which brand of acrylic paint, there are a lot of opinions.
>> Here's what I've found
>
>I use Ceramcoat acrylic paints from Duncan almost exculsively - with
>the exception of metallics, which I prefer Hobby paints like reaper
>and Ral Partha for.
Hmm... I may revisit Reaper/Ral Partha then. I sure didn't like them for
non-metallic use.
>GW paint is absolute crap. I won't use it even
>when it's given to me as a gift.
Amen to that. Hands down, the worst in category, particularly when price is a
consideration.
>> 0.3 Pinning Supplies
>
>On this John speaks with much expertise. And I appreciated it much
>later than I should have.
Thanks! :)
>> 0.4 Gluing Supplies
>
>Horses for courses.
Yup.
>I use three types of glue for metal and
>metal/plastic models - epoxy putty, plain old glue-pen style super
>glue and LIQUID NAIL. Can't recommend it highly enough. Love the
>stuff.
What are you using Liquid Nail for? Sounds like something to investigate.
>> 0.5 Primer Supplies
>
>> Many people like to use cheaper non-hobby commercial primers,
>> such as Krylon. In my experience backed, by additional research,
>> these commercial primers are a poor substitute for quality hobby
>> primers
>
>Pah. The 'hobby' primers, IMO, are simply a rip-off. I've tried 'em
>both and have never noticed any appreciable difference in either
>quality or use.
OK. Tho I did do a lot of research on this, and that was my conclusion. When
I asked Krylon themselves, they wouldn't recommend anything in their line for
hobby use. There is a difference, I believe, and whether one can detect it, or
whether it matters depends on the individual. I don't like it for the way I
prime.
>I just use Krylon black and white primer.
I'm glad they work for you. How are you using them? Misting? What?
>> 6. Overcoating.
>>
>> I've not yet done much overcoating, waiting for everything to be
>> painted and based to standard, first. I intend to use Krylon Satin,
>>as it comes well-recommended.
>
>Which is what I use - exclusively.
:)
>> 7. Philosophy
>>
>> This is a large document, and hopefully, you find it useful in
>> sparking ideas about how you might tackle your next painting
>>project.
>
>Thanks for going to the trouble - I pretty much did the same thing.
When you have a few years to work on a document, it's not so bad, eh? :)
>Except I put it on my website under painting tips. With pictures of
>my models.
Cool! I'll check it out.
>Here's hoping you'll be able to do likewise, because I would really
>like to see your actual results.
I've got a few close-ups on yahoo group RGMW-genbus.
MJB
"John Hwang" <johnhw...@cs.com.no.com> wrote in message
news:20030501111751...@mb-m22.news.cs.com...
> "MJB" mrt...@OLDsguy.com wrote:
> >"John Hwang" <JohnHw...@cs.com> wrote ...
> >>
> >> John Hwang's Painting Notes
> >.>
> >>
> >> 0.1 Brush Supplies
> >I replaced ALL
> >my natural sable brushes - with the exception of a single 10/0 red
> >sable pointer I just use for eyeballs - with acrylic brushes. And
I
> >learned how to take advantage of the curve the brushes developed as
> >well as the point.
>
> I'll revisit them. But they're definitely not the same, and they
definitely
> don't quite work the same. So after years of painting with natural
brushes,
> these particular changes weren't particularly welcome.
IMO sable brushes work pretty well with enamels - the heavier
oil-based solvent base seems to keep the brush hairs in alignment
better. But once I went exclusively to water-based acrylic paints I
discovered that the sable bristles seemed to 'splay' much more and get
'loggy' with repeated use. I'm also a fly-fisherman and tyer of my
own fishing-lures - and natural hair (feathers, fur, etc) do the same
damm thing when used on the river. Which is why a lot of once natural
material were replaced with synethics - they kept their shape and
lasted longer in water than 'real' materials. Plus the synethics
stood up better to rough handling than the natural materials.
>
> >Plus acrylics last a lot longer than natural
> >hair - I'm using brushes for well over a year before I even
consider
> >replacing them. And I paint figures for a livelyhood.
>
> My good sable brushes are still good enough, all of which are years
old now.
> Hard to say whether the longevity makes a difference if I don't warm
to them.
I've been buying Lowel-Cornell brushes at Michael's art's & crafts for
years. The black handled (series 7000) are my preferred model.
>
> >> 0.2 Paint Supplies
> >
>
> >GW paint is absolute crap. I won't use it even
> >when it's given to me as a gift.
>
> Amen to that. Hands down, the worst in category, particularly when
price is a
> consideration.
I think I once figured out that GDub paints, if purchased by the
gallon, would run nearly 800$.
LOL!
>
> >> 0.4 Gluing Supplies
>
> What are you using Liquid Nail for? Sounds like something to
investigate.
Liquid Nail serves sooo many purposes for me in my painting biz. It's
a heavy gap filling adhesive, which can bes a bitch to use until you
learn its handling characteristics. It also comes in two kinds -
clear and opaque. I use both, but prefer the clear type. But what I
use it for is:
a) gluing figures to their slotta bases - it fills all the gaps in
the base without extra puttying. Or gluing any 25mm or larger figure
with a flat base to any metal or plastic basing material. I used to
use a hot glue gun for that kind of work - but Liguid Nail is now
preferred.
b) heavy bonds on model parts like land raiders and like. It's been
especially useful when the parts don't fit entirely properly (like the
shoe speeders) and you need something to really get a grip and hold
the parts in place. Too many times I've tried to put big parts
together with polystyrene cement, only to have the bond fall apart
because it reacted too fast during the application. But liquid nail
takes longer to dry and so you get a solid glue bond.
c) On metal to plastic or metal to metal bonds that are a little
difficult but don't need to be pinned because they aren't load
bearing. For example - the balrog model on my website was assembled
entirely with liquid nail. And it survived it's shipment from Oregon
to South Carolina without a scratch.
d) Terrain building. I use LNail in preference to PVA (white glue)
where fast drying time is useful. Like when I'm assembling building
out of foam core and I don't want to wait overnight to go to the next
step. It also is about the only adhesive I've ever found that will
glue cardboard or paper to polystyrene sheeting. When I make terrain
bases I like to make the base out of polystyrene for durability, but I
then glue a layer of 'breakfast cereal box' cardboard to the top with
LNail just so the white glue and paint will have something to stick
to.
>
> >> 0.5 Primer Supplies
>
> >I just use Krylon black and white primer.
>
> I'm glad they work for you. How are you using them? Misting?
What?
Misting from about 10 - 12 inches away, I guess. I also go through
probably one can of black primer and one can of white per month. I
should probably buy the stuff by the case - so price does matter in my
case. There is also the issue of quantity per can. If memory serves,
hobby spray primers are what? 8 - 10 ozs per can? Krylon is 12 ozs.
I guess my main dispute over the primer issue is I've tried 'em all in
my painting biz. And while the facts might be on your side - for
painting figures commerically, I haven't seen enough of a difference
to switch. Plus - Gdub's current cheap ass plastic reacts badly to
every primer / over-spray I've tried. But I've got the original
plastics from the RTrader days still being worked-on: Impys, squats,
orkies and beakies - and the old plastic holds up just fine to
everything I've tried on it.
>
> >> 7. Philosophy
> When you have a few years to work on a document, it's not so bad,
eh? :)
LOL! I did my painting tips as a on-going series on the historical
miniatures NG years ago. And my painting website has been up for
awhile now.
>
> I've got a few close-ups on yahoo group RGMW-genbus.
I don't yahoo. <sigh>
MJB
"Robert Singers" <rsin...@finger.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns936EACF2BD111rsingers@IP-Hidden...
> Out from under a rock popped MJB and said
>
> > Thanks for going to the trouble - I pretty much did the same
thing.
> > Except I put it on my website under painting tips. With pictures
of
> > my models.
>
> You know that you can send me a photo and I could put it in the
Rogue's
> Gallery linked to your site. Then you'd be officially famous :-)
But... but I'm not a reg. I just lurk a little, troll for customers
and occassionally answer painting questions.
I do know Saint Jason personally and can confirm that he does, in fact
exist. Rumors to the contary not withstanding.
<grin>
smithdoerr
"Kurt" <kur...@nospam.optushome.com.au> wrote in message
news:Xns936EB3...@210.49.20.254...
> >> 6. Overcoating.
> >>
> >> I've not yet done much overcoating, waiting for everything to be
> >> painted and based to standard, first. I intend to use Krylon Satin,
> > as
> >> it comes well-recommended.
> >
> > Which is what I use - exclusively.
> >
> I found a coat of Testors Dullcote over a gloss enamel gives the nice flat
> effect, with the extra durability that you don't get from a matte alone.
How does Testors Dullcote look over metallic paints? Ages ago I had some
Figure Flat (can't remember the company that made it) that you could spray
over a gloss finish and the figure looked like it didn't have any finish on
it at all. Looked great except it dulled the metals so much that it was
difficult to tell the difference between parts painted with Gun Metal and
parts painted with Gray. I always had to repaint all the metal bits and
paint a semi-gloss finish over them.
--
-smithdoerr
John Hwang
>> John Hwang's Painting Notes
>
>> The
>> Realistc style is better for simulating a "eye in the sky" POV, while
>> the Fantastic style is better for close-up photography and viewing.
>
>Isn't this reversed?
Not exactly. If you're far away from the miniature, so there's a bit of
atmospheric "haze" and colors will be less crisp, less bright, less saturated.
>Fantastic looks better at arms length, while
>Realistic looks good up close.
Depends on the specific techniques. If like an Impressionist painting, that's
certainly true. But compare GW style with my style, and their stuff is
definitely "sexier".
>> As for which brand of acrylic paint, there are a lot of opinions.
>> Here's what I've found: Ral Partha, Armoury, and *current* GW
>> "screw-top" paint is all CRAP
>
>For good CHEAP paint, I recomend Delta-Ceramcoat. You can get a 2 oz
>bottle for $1.29 to $0.89 depending on where you shop.
So noted.
>> 0.5 Primer Supplies
>>
>> And finally, be sure to get spray primer.
>
>I also recomend getting a paint pot of primer. It will let you prime
>areas missed by the spray,
For me, using a priming stick to support, this is usually <3% of the total
surface area, and it's in areas that won't get handled where I'll need to worry
about paint getting rubbed off, like model armpits or behind weapons.
> or prime a small part quickly when you
>don't want to drag out the spray cans and spray box.
I always prime in large batches, so adding another part isn't a big deal. :)
>> 1. Plan
>>
>> Make a plan of what to paint, in what order. I recommend saving your
>> best models for last. I know you'll be *sorely* tempted to ignore me
>> here, and jump immediately on that limited-issue Ancient Great Dragon.
>> Don't do it. It'll look terrible and you be greatly disappointed.
>> Instead, start with something simple, small, and ugly -- I'd recommend
>> a basic monster like an Ork or Goblin. Plan to paint in groups of
>> 5-10 *similar* models, starting in smaller groups.
>
>If you're painting for WHFB, I'd paint a whole rank at a time. This
>way, all mixing and blending stays fairly constant.
When I paint WHFB models, I typically paint whole Regiments at a time. But
ranks are a good compromise when Regiments get large.
>> There's been some debate over the "right" number of basic, non-detail
>> colors to use. It's all up to you, but fewer colors will tend to be
>> darker and more serious. Fewer colors, with shading, highlighting,
>> and washes will usually look better than more flat colors. Also,
>> think about incorporating common colors, contrasts, or other painting
>> "themes" across your army to tie everything together -- a common
>> palette goes a long way in unifying an otherwise disparate collection
>> of models. Experiment here.
>
>This depends entirly on the army. Rank and file Empire swordsmen
>sould have a theme going, but what about militia and dualists?
Same for them. Just rotate a few colors around. Instead of a State color,
pick a shade of brown or tan.
>I'd be disapointed if I could count the number of colors in a unit of
>Militia.
Why? I painted Orks like this and didn't have a problem. What you do is paint
3/4 colors for each model, in slightly different patterns. And/or use different
washes. They're all different, but have related color palette, unifying the
unit visually, but emphasing non-uniformity at the same time. I'l make a note
on this for the next version.
>> I've found anywhere from 2-4 basic colors seems to work fine,
>> depending on the model. A basic color is anything which you can see
>> from a distance, say across a room. 2-4 detail colors seems to be a
>> good way to go as well. Detail colors are things which are sharp when
>> you hold the model in your hand. When in doubt, paint one model until
>> you like it, then duplicate the paint job. If you have any
>> "throwaway" models, this is what they're good for.
>
>Save yourself a lot of headache and keep track of what colors you
>used.
Good point I'd forgotten to note, along with organizing paints. If you bother
to look, I've written the name of the unit they're the base color for on may of
the paint lids. It's a good system.
>I have a great look Confrontation Wolfen, painted while
>drinking quite a bit with RTM. I still have 4 more bare metal and I
>have no idea what I used for the first one.
Oops. Make him the Champion, and it'll be OK. :)
>> 5. Base the models.
>
>Ohh, another chance to make a snide comment about Hwang and his
>unbased armies...
>
>> FWIW, I'm *very* far behind on my basing, but at least I'm all but
>> fully painted... Or, rather, *was* until I bought a few big batches
>> of stuff to work on. Still
>
>Drat.
:)
>> 6. Overcoating.
>>
>> I've seen gloss overcoating (e.g. nail polish) and it just doesn't
>> look very good because it's not realistic. At all. Maybe,
>> drop-by-drop for gems and such, but definitely not for normal
>> surfaces. Flat or semi-gloss surfaces look much better, as they're
>> more realistic, more scale.
>
>I do like a mix of overcoats. I painted a few space marines black and
>white, and did a gloss overcoat on the black shoulder pads. Looks
>good. Also, a gloss finish on a tongue gives it a moist look. Please
>though, do not use gloss on flesh, it looks aweful.
Try "fabric". It's worse. Shiny flesh is simply sweaty. Consider
Nurglings...
>> 7. Philosophy
>>
>> This is a large document, and hopefully, you find it useful in
>> sparking ideas about how you might tackle your next painting project.
>> By no means should this be considered the final word in painting
>> miniatures. Rather, it's one simple person's (my)approaches and
>> opinions, collected together into a single document. Hopefully, I've
>> been clear in noting what are my personal opinions, biases, and
>> preferences, and my commentary is helpful in your development of your
>> own techniques, approaches, and ultimately, style.
>>
>> John Hwang -- JohnHw...@cs.com.no.com.
>> v.7 - r.2003.04.27
>
>Good article.
Thanks.
John Hwang
>M_St...@hotmail.com (Maka) writes:
>
>>> 1. Plan
>>>
>>> Make a plan of what to paint, in what order. I recommend saving your
>>> best models for last. I know you'll be *sorely* tempted to ignore me
>>> here, and jump immediately on that limited-issue Ancient Great Dragon.
>>> Don't do it. It'll look terrible and you be greatly disappointed.
>
>I have to say, I'm in the process of redoing my Wood Elf characters at the
>moment - replacing an old, hideously-done plastic WHQ Wood Elf and a Scout
>Champion (who can be salvaged, but I want something more special for my
>Heroes), and with an archmage, general and army standard bearer still to
>paint.
I'm having similar challenge repainting my Eldar Rangers and Pathfinders to
"match" nicely.
>Then I'll have to take paint stripper to Illariel (my infantry mage) and
>replace the mounted general (painstripping or repainting models on
>horses is a real pain - I'm doing my best to salvage my very first batch
>of Glade Riders, but they're bound to be a mess even so).
They're metal riders, no? That helps.
>>> Instead, start with something simple, small, and ugly -- I'd recommend
>>> a basic monster like an Ork or Goblin. Plan to paint in groups of
>>> 5-10 *similar* models, starting in smaller groups.
>
>The problem I have with my Wood Elves is that I've been building the
>army on and off since the army book was released six years or so ago,
>and I started off as little more than a novice paintwise (not thinning paints,
>no shading or highlighting, messy attempts at detailing, red splotches for
>gems and so forth). My Glade Guard regiment has grown about three
>times in those years, with different levels of painting skill on each batch.
I feel the same about my earliest Eldar and Chaos models. When I go through
major acquisitions, I try to do a bit of something to bring the older models
"up" a bit.
>The last time I started painting an all-new army, when I rebuilt my Eldar
>army from scratch this edition, I painted everything that shared a colour
>scheme together (yes, with Guardians, Farseers, Warlocks and vehicles
> this took some time), squad by squad.
Ouch. I utterly dread this.
>>If you're painting for WHFB, I'd paint a whole rank at a time. This
>>way, all mixing and blending stays fairly constant.
>
>Or just paint the whole regiment in one batch.
Yup.
>>> There's been some debate over the "right" number of basic, non-detail
>>> colors to use. It's all up to you, but fewer colors will tend to be
>>> darker and more serious. Fewer colors, with shading, highlighting,
>>> and washes will usually look better than more flat colors.
>
>Another thing I learned through Wood Elves - though I chose a 'flatter'
>scheme for the Eldar with only basic shading and bright highlights
>which I feel works.
Cleaner and simpler often works better. And probably saves you a lot of time.
>>> think about incorporating common colors, contrasts, or other painting
>>> "themes" across your army to tie everything together -- a common
>>> palette goes a long way in unifying an otherwise disparate collection
>>> of models. Experiment here.
>
>On this subject - does anyone have a good colour combination or blending
>scheme for producing auburn hair?
I'm not quite sure what this should look like.
>I'm thinking a mix of Bubonic Brown and Fiery Orange (to use
>GW shades for reference, and because they're what I have available),
>but I'm not sure how many layers to use or proportions. I don't mix colours
>very often, tending to use a succession of lighter basecoats and highlights
>instead.
I'd basecoat brown, highlight orange, blue and brown wash.
>>This depends entirly on the army. Rank and file Empire swordsmen
>>sould have a theme going, but what about militia and dualists? I'd be
>>disapointed if I could count the number of colors in a unit of
>>Militia.
>
>I'd paint Militia much the same way I paint Scouts - three or four
>colours, all shades of brown (well, they have green tunics, metallic
>belts, red gems - but in general they're brown). Militia are peasants -
>they won't wear especially gaudy clothing.
Like Orks. Various browns and tans. But still easily controllable.in total
number of colors.
>>> 5. Base the models.
>>
>>Ohh, another chance to make a snide comment about Hwang and his
>>unbased armies...
>
>I must admit I'm lazy enough to paint green and be done with it.
Heh. I usually don't even do that. Paint the models, ignore^H^H^H^H^H^Hdefer
the bases.
>>> 6. Overcoating.
>>>
>>> I've seen gloss overcoating (e.g. nail polish) and it just doesn't
>>> look very good because it's not realistic. At all.
>
>I really don't like it, but then I make the mistake of not varnishing at all.
>That way, I can just wait for the paint to fall off instead of stripping...
Prime first. :P
>Now I'm painting to a standard I doubt I'll want to go over again soon,
>I should really get the matt out.
Feels good to have things "done", eh?
John Hwang
>"John Hwang" <johnhw...@cs.com.no.com> wrote
>> >> John Hwang's Painting Notes
>> >>
>> >> 0.1 Brush Supplies
>
>> >I replaced ALL my natural sable brushes -
>> > - with acrylic brushes.
>> I'll revisit them. But they're definitely not the same, and they
>>definitely don't quite work the same. So after years of painting
>>with natural brushes, these particular changes weren't
>>particularly welcome.
>
>IMO sable brushes work pretty well with enamels - the heavier
>oil-based solvent base seems to keep the brush hairs in alignment
>better. But once I went exclusively to water-based acrylic paints I
>discovered that the sable bristles seemed to 'splay' much more and get
>'loggy' with repeated use.
Maybe it's a brand thing. I don't have this kind of problem, except with the
lower-grade (e.g. GW) brushes.
>I'm also a fly-fisherman and tyer of my
>own fishing-lures - and natural hair (feathers, fur, etc) do the same
>damm thing when used on the river. Which is why a lot of once natural
>material were replaced with synethics - they kept their shape and
>lasted longer in water than 'real' materials. Plus the synethics
>stood up better to rough handling than the natural materials.
That's hard to say. They react differently, but not necessarily better. I try
to be very gentle on my brushes.
>> My good sable brushes are still good enough, all of which are years
>>old now. Hard to say whether the longevity makes a difference if I
>>don't warm to them.
>
>I've been buying Lowel-Cornell brushes at Michael's art's & crafts for
>years. The black handled (series 7000) are my preferred model.
So noted. I bought 2 of those. What I don't like are the white-handled,
black-tipped 797-R series brushes.
>> >> 0.2 Paint Supplies
>>
>> >GW paint is absolute crap. I won't use it even
>> >when it's given to me as a gift.
>>
>> Amen to that. Hands down, the worst in category, particularly when
>>price is a consideration.
>
>I think I once figured out that GDub paints, if purchased by the
>gallon, would run nearly 800$.
>
>LOL!
:)
>> >> 0.4 Gluing Supplies
>>
>> What are you using Liquid Nail for? Sounds like something to
>>investigate.
>
>Liquid Nail serves sooo many purposes for me in my painting biz.
[SNIP]
Well worth a look now.
>> >> 0.5 Primer Supplies
>>
>> >I just use Krylon black and white primer.
>>
>> I'm glad they work for you. How are you using them? Misting?
>What?
>
>Misting from about 10 - 12 inches away, I guess. I also go through
>probably one can of black primer and one can of white per month. I
>should probably buy the stuff by the case - so price does matter in my
>case.
For you, definitely. Case quantity is the answer.
>There is also the issue of quantity per can. If memory serves,
>hobby spray primers are what? 8 - 10 ozs per can? Krylon is 12 ozs.
Rustoleum is 12 oz, Citadel is 11 oz.
>I guess my main dispute over the primer issue is I've tried 'em all in
>my painting biz. And while the facts might be on your side - for
>painting figures commerically, I haven't seen enough of a difference
>to switch.
OK. Again, what works for you vs what works for me.
>Plus - Gdub's current cheap ass plastic reacts badly to
>every primer / over-spray I've tried.
That is *precisely* what I'm seeing with "hot", commercial primer. Cheap
plastic crazes very quickly. Hobby primer works better here.
>But I've got the original
>plastics from the RTrader days still being worked-on: Impys, squats,
>orkies and beakies - and the old plastic holds up just fine to
>everything I've tried on it.
IOW, pre-bean-counter...
>> >> 7. Philosophy
>
>> When you have a few years to work on a document, it's not so bad,
>>eh? :)
>
>LOL! I did my painting tips as a on-going series on the historical
>miniatures NG years ago. And my painting website has been up for
>awhile now.
See? :)
>> I've got a few close-ups on yahoo group RGMW-genbus.
>
>I don't yahoo. <sigh>
>--
>MJB
>My email address is munged : to reply directly, replace 'OLD' with
>'new'.
Do you want me to e-mail you directly?
Kurt
>> I found a coat of Testors Dullcote over a gloss enamel gives the nice
>> flat effect, with the extra durability that you don't get from a
>> matte alone.
>
> How does Testors Dullcote look over metallic paints? Ages ago I had
> some Figure Flat (can't remember the company that made it) that you
> could spray over a gloss finish and the figure looked like it didn't
> have any finish on it at all. Looked great except it dulled the
> metals so much that it was difficult to tell the difference between
> parts painted with Gun Metal and parts painted with Gray. I always
> had to repaint all the metal bits and paint a semi-gloss finish over
> them.
>
I don't tend to use metals very much, if I do there isn't a lot of it on
the figure. But I did do the cockpits of my Silent Death figures in
silver, and after the dullcote they look fine, and the gold on my
Warmachine figures certainly didn't suffer for it.
P Bowles
johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) writes:
>>>> There's been some debate over the "right" number of basic, non-detail
>>>> colors to use. It's all up to you, but fewer colors will tend to be
>>>> darker and more serious. Fewer colors, with shading, highlighting,
>>>> and washes will usually look better than more flat colors.
>>
>>Another thing I learned through Wood Elves - though I chose a 'flatter'
>>scheme for the Eldar with only basic shading and bright highlights
>>which I feel works.
>
>Cleaner and simpler often works better. And probably saves you a lot of time.
I still can't work out why my Warp Spiders took so long...
>
>>>> think about incorporating common colors, contrasts, or other painting
>>>> "themes" across your army to tie everything together -- a common
>>>> palette goes a long way in unifying an otherwise disparate collection
>>>> of models. Experiment here.
>>
>>On this subject - does anyone have a good colour combination or blending
>>scheme for producing auburn hair?
>
>I'm not quite sure what this should look like.
Somwhere between blond and redhead.
>>I'm thinking a mix of Bubonic Brown and Fiery Orange (to use
>>GW shades for reference, and because they're what I have available),
>>but I'm not sure how many layers to use or proportions. I don't mix colours
>>very often, tending to use a succession of lighter basecoats and highlights
>>instead.
>
>I'd basecoat brown, highlight orange, blue and brown wash.
Blue?
>>Now I'm painting to a standard I doubt I'll want to go over again soon,
>>I should really get the matt out.
>
>Feels good to have things "done", eh?
It would, if I didn't still have three armies, three warbands, a fleet and a
half-assembled Epic force to 'get done', quite apart from my latest Woodies,
Eldar and various unpainted Lizards...
Philip Bowles
The Ancient Gamer
> M_St...@hotmail.com (Maka) wrote:
>
> >I do like a mix of overcoats. I painted a few space marines black and
> >white, and did a gloss overcoat on the black shoulder pads. Looks
> >good. Also, a gloss finish on a tongue gives it a moist look. Please
> >though, do not use gloss on flesh, it looks aweful.
>
> Try "fabric". It's worse. Shiny flesh is simply sweaty. Consider
> Nurglings...
>
Satins, and many of the synthetic cloths? Consider historically the colors
leather would be died and the high gloss they would be polished to by
officers and their aids. IIRC the Samurai where fond of bright colors and so
where the armies of the automans, they also where fond of bright colors
IIRC...
> >> 7. Philosophy
> >>
I found the majority of the article a re-hash of many of the posts I have
seen here and other places before. It may well be useful to many of the
newer painters, but personally I didn't see anything that I could use. But
then I have more than likely been painting figures longer then many of the
people who read this group have been alive...
--
Jim M
posted on this day, the 3531st of September in the year of 1993...
Marshall Dragoo
> "John Hwang" <JohnHw...@cs.com> wrote in message
> news:c385d34a.03042...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > John Hwang's Painting Notes
> .>
> >
> > 0.1 Brush Supplies
>
> > Conclusion: real is better than artificial. Considering that they
> > cost about as much as a sable brush, I think I'll prefer stick with
> > real sable for all future brushes.
>
> Wow - I'm in total disagreement with you on this John. I replaced ALL
> my natural sable brushes - with the exception of a single 10/0 red
> sable pointer I just use for eyeballs - with acrylic brushes. And I
> learned how to take advantage of the curve the brushes developed as
> well as the point. Plus acrylics last a lot longer than natural
> hair - I'm using brushes for well over a year before I even consider
> replacing them. And I paint figures for a livelyhood.
>
And very well, I might add. Hi, Martin, long time, no hear. How's
things treating you?
Where you get your brushes?
I've been painting recently on my Warmachine Cygnar minis, and
re-doing the bases on my Dark Eldar, as well as painting up some GK
termies. I've also learned the habit of thinning my paint as well. GW
paint is ok, but the Delta stuff, Apple Barrel(cheaper even than
Delta), Reaper and Partha are good paints. I still have Partha paints
for years-and no drying out. I'm lucky I have some pop-toppers,
because those are a life saver. But I would switch to Vallejo or Coat
D' arms if I could get them readily. And I have to agree with Martin.
Krylon Sandable Primers work just as well. I've even bought auto
primer, black that looks exactly like GW's black, yet paid only 5
bucks for it, vice the 8 you'll get at any GW shop. Anybody's white
primer will do, but I rarely prime white unless I'm making artic
terrain.
Testors also makes paint called Modelmaster, which is water based.
It's not cheap, but does last. I have their gun metal and guards red,
and that red will cover black better than anything I've tried. It's a
much fuller color as well. I find these paints at Hobby Lobby, a
Godsend of a store, because they have 95 percent of what any mini
gamer/painter needs. Flock, sand, static grass, paint, brushes, glue,
model bits from WW2 kits(love the sandbags for 4 dollars), foamboard,
balsawood, Gesso, I could on and on. The only things they don't carry
is plasticard and green stuff. Plasticard is wonderful(thanks
Butch)for making extra armor on vehicles and such. I have some that's
in little squares that looks nice when painted.
But we all have our little perks and quirks when painting minis. Well,
I'm off to paint some more on my Warmachine figs.
Marshall Dragoo
RGMW regular
Marshall Dragoo
<snippers>
> I found a coat of Testors Dullcote over a gloss enamel gives the nice flat
> effect, with the extra durability that you don't get from a matte alone.
Testors dullcote is some great stuff, also sold at Hobby Lobby. I wish
it came in bigger spray cans, though.
Marshall Dragoo
RGMW regular
The Ancient Gamer
> "MJB" mrt...@OLDsguy.com wrote:
> >"John Hwang" <johnhw...@cs.com.no.com> wrote
>
> >> >> John Hwang's Painting Notes
> >> >>
> >> >> 0.1 Brush Supplies
> >
> >> >I replaced ALL my natural sable brushes -
> >> > - with acrylic brushes.
>
> >> I'll revisit them. But they're definitely not the same, and they
> >>definitely don't quite work the same. So after years of painting
> >>with natural brushes, these particular changes weren't
> >>particularly welcome.
> >
> >IMO sable brushes work pretty well with enamels - the heavier
> >oil-based solvent base seems to keep the brush hairs in alignment
> >better. But once I went exclusively to water-based acrylic paints I
> >discovered that the sable bristles seemed to 'splay' much more and get
> >'loggy' with repeated use.
>
> Maybe it's a brand thing. I don't have this kind of problem, except with
the
> lower-grade (e.g. GW) brushes.
>
I don't have that problem with ANY of my brushes, I only dip the very tip
into the paint drops I am using and I rinse the brush often with clean
water, I also use warm soapy water to clean my brushes when I have finished,
I have grumbachers that I have used for 15+years and they are just as good
as any of my other brushes; BTW I also have several citadel brushes that
have nice points that I have used for close to three years now...
> >Plus - Gdub's current cheap ass plastic reacts badly to
> >every primer / over-spray I've tried.
>
> That is *precisely* what I'm seeing with "hot", commercial primer. Cheap
> plastic crazes very quickly. Hobby primer works better here.
>
Paint the figure with a bit of thinned out white glue prior to painting. You
lose a bit of detail but not enough to be a problem and their will be no
crazing...
Rob Singers
words of wisdom
> I don't have that problem with ANY of my brushes, I only dip the very
> tip into the paint drops I am using and I rinse the brush often with
> clean water, I also use warm soapy water to clean my brushes when I
> have finished, I have grumbachers that I have used for 15+years and
> they are just as good as any of my other brushes; BTW I also have
> several citadel brushes that have nice points that I have used for
> close to three years now...
I concur. I have brushes that I treat well and they last well. I have
other brushes that I treat badly that end up only suitable for dry brushing
bases. I use synthetic brushes for some jobs and sable brushes for others.
Some people need to stop being so anal.
MJB
> "MJB" mrt...@OLDsguy.com wrote:
> >"John Hwang" <johnhw...@cs.com.no.com> wrote
>
> >> >> John Hwang's Painting Notes
> >> >>
> >> >> 0.1 Brush Supplies
>
> Maybe it's a brand thing. I don't have this kind of problem, except
with the
> lower-grade (e.g. GW) brushes.
Can't guess - I don't use any GW painting products. Too much crap for
too much money.
> That's hard to say. They [non-natural brushes] react differently,
but not necessarily better. I try
> to be very gentle on my brushes.
Ditto. But I just think red sables aren't worth their price compared
to what is currently being produced in synethetic brushes.
> So noted. I bought 2 of [7000 series]. What I don't like are the
white-handled,
> black-tipped 797-R series brushes.
Can't comment, never tried 'em. I tend to find something that works
for me, then go with it.
> >> >> 0.5 Primer Supplies
>
> OK. Again, what works for you vs what works for me.
It's also a question of availability too. I like being able to buy my
painting supplies at the same mall where I buy my groceries - rather
than make a special trip across town to the nearest hobby store.
>
> >Plus - Gdub's current cheap ass plastic reacts badly to
> >every primer / over-spray I've tried.
>
> That is *precisely* what I'm seeing with "hot", commercial primer.
Cheap
> plastic crazes very quickly. Hobby primer works better here.
Funny - Krylon white primer seems pretty non-reactive to the latest
plastic.
>
> >> >> 7. Philosophy
> >
> >> I've got a few close-ups on yahoo group RGMW-genbus.
> >
> >I don't yahoo. <sigh>
>
> Do you want me to e-mail you directly?
Feel free - just realize my email is munged.
--
MJB
My email address is munged : to reply directly, replace 'OLD' with
'new'.
Please visit Mr. Tin's Miniature Painting Workshop:
http://web.newsguy.com/Mrtinsworkshop/
John Hwang
>"John Hwang" <johnhw...@cs.com.no.com> wrote
>> >> >> John Hwang's Painting Notes
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 0.1 Brush Supplies
>>
>> Maybe it's a brand thing. I don't have this kind of problem, except
>>with the lower-grade (e.g. GW) brushes.
>
>Can't guess - I don't use any GW painting products. Too much crap for
>too much money.
I confess to having bought a brush pack a few years ago, ignorantly thinking
that they knew what they were doing. Boy, was I wrong! They fuzzed out almost
immediately. And didn't paint smoothly for me.
>> That's hard to say. They [non-natural brushes] react differently,
>>but not necessarily better. I try to be very gentle on my brushes.
>
>Ditto. But I just think red sables aren't worth their price compared
>to what is currently being produced in synethetic brushes.
I wonder if perhaps it's a fiber stiffness thing? You're perhaps used to a
slightly stiffer bristle being used?
>> So noted. I bought 2 of [7000 series]. What I don't like are the
>>white-handled, black-tipped 797-R series brushes.
>
>Can't comment, never tried 'em. I tend to find something that works
>for me, then go with it.
Exactly. Problem is, I can't find the blue-handled natural fibre brushes I've
become accustomed to using. That's why I went to Michael's and picked up some
Leow-Cornell's. :(
>> >> >> 0.5 Primer Supplies
>>
>> OK. Again, what works for you vs what works for me.
>
>It's also a question of availability too.
Amen. See above.
>I like being able to buy my
>painting supplies at the same mall where I buy my groceries - rather
>than make a special trip across town to the nearest hobby store.
Heh. I understand that. Tho when GW is *everywhere*, well...
>> >Plus - Gdub's current cheap ass plastic reacts badly to
>> >every primer / over-spray I've tried.
>>
>> That is *precisely* what I'm seeing with "hot", commercial
>> primer. Cheap plastic crazes very quickly. Hobby primer works
>> better here.
>
>Funny - Krylon white primer seems pretty non-reactive to the latest
>plastic.
I've gotten "fuzzing" and other wierdness with every white primer I've ever
tried. I stay away from white primer. :(
Tho I have crossed over and bought my first can of light grey automotive primer
for my BFG Eldar fleet and various Warhammer Dragons as they'll all be painted
"white". If it tests well on the sprues, I'll be using it for my HE Dragon
Princes and silver helms, in addition to the riders.
>> >> >> 7. Philosophy
>> >
>> >> I've got a few close-ups on yahoo group RGMW-genbus.
>> >
>> >I don't yahoo. <sigh>
>>
>> Do you want me to e-mail you directly?
>
>Feel free - just realize my email is munged.
Done! Hopefully, you won't be disappointed.
John Hwang
>"John Hwang" <johnhw...@cs.com.no.com> wrote ...
>> "MJB" mrt...@OLDsguy.com wrote:
>> >"John Hwang" <johnhw...@cs.com.no.com> wrote
>>
>> >> >> John Hwang's Painting Notes
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 0.1 Brush Supplies
>> >
>> >> >I replaced ALL my natural sable brushes -
>> >> > - with acrylic brushes.
>>
>> >> I'll revisit them. But they're definitely not the same, and they
>> >>definitely don't quite work the same. So after years of painting
>> >>with natural brushes, these particular changes weren't
>> >>particularly welcome.
>> >
>> >IMO sable brushes work pretty well with enamels - the heavier
>> >oil-based solvent base seems to keep the brush hairs in alignment
>> >better. But once I went exclusively to water-based acrylic paints I
>> >discovered that the sable bristles seemed to 'splay' much more and get
>> >'loggy' with repeated use.
>>
>> Maybe it's a brand thing. I don't have this kind of problem, except with
>>the lower-grade (e.g. GW) brushes.
>
>I don't have that problem with ANY of my brushes, I only dip the very tip
>into the paint drops I am using and I rinse the brush often with clean
>water, I also use warm soapy water to clean my brushes when I have finished,
Same here. But the thinness of the paint I use means it'll always "wick" up.
>I have grumbachers that I have used for 15+years and they are just as good
>as any of my other brushes; BTW I also have several citadel brushes that
>have nice points that I have used for close to three years now...
Lucky, lucky, lucky!
>> >Plus - Gdub's current cheap ass plastic reacts badly to
>> >every primer / over-spray I've tried.
>>
>> That is *precisely* what I'm seeing with "hot", commercial primer. Cheap
>> plastic crazes very quickly. Hobby primer works better here.
>
>Paint the figure with a bit of thinned out white glue prior to painting. You
>lose a bit of detail but not enough to be a problem and their will be no
>crazing...
I'm not hugely excited by this solution. If my effort doubles, I'd just as
well pay double for the hobby primer. :(
John Hwang
>>
>> >I do like a mix of overcoats. I painted a few space marines black and
>> >white, and did a gloss overcoat on the black shoulder pads. Looks
>> >good. Also, a gloss finish on a tongue gives it a moist look. Please
>> >though, do not use gloss on flesh, it looks aweful.
>>
>> Try "fabric". It's worse. Shiny flesh is simply sweaty. Consider
>> Nurglings...
>
>So does this mean you have never heard of a shiny fabric?
Good exceptions to the basic rule. However most of the fabric I've seen is IG.
And due to scale effects, they'd only be semi-gloss, not full-gloss.
>> >> 7. Philosophy
>
>I found the majority of the article a re-hash of many of the posts I have
>seen here and other places before.
Given that it's a compilation of the various things I've been posting from time
to time, starting 3 years ago, I'm not surprised.
>It may well be useful to many of the newer painters,
Actually, I think it's generally useful. It's a big compilation, so going
through it tends to spark new thoughts on things that haven't come up lately.
>but personally I didn't see anything that I could use.
Sorry. But for you, that's probably not the point. For you, and other
experienced painters, (like MJB) it's more valuable as an organizer of
discussion on painting in general. Assuming you got things you want to share
or comment on.
>But then I have more than likely been painting figures longer then many of the
>people who read this group have been alive...
Sadly, I'm in this category, too. OTOH, change "many" to "the vast majority",
and you've probably got me beat.
But really, the
John Hwang
>johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) writes:
>>Cleaner and simpler often works better. And probably saves you a lot of
>>time.
>
>I still can't work out why my Warp Spiders took so long...
More posting than painting? :P
Seriously, Warp Spiders have the most surface area to paint of any "ordinary"
Eldar trooper short of a Swooping Hawk, and unlike the Hawks, their Spinners
are far more ornate than basic Lasguns^H^H^H^Hblasters.
>>>On this subject - does anyone have a good colour combination or blending
>>>scheme for producing auburn hair?
>>
>>I'm not quite sure what this should look like.
>
>Somwhere between blond and redhead.
Oh, OK. It may be best to base in orange, and use thin brown and brown wash to
develop your base color, then to work up with oranges and tans. I think
you've got a real headscratcher here. But when I get a chance, I'll drop a pic
of what I did with my first batch of Banshees.
>>>I'm thinking a mix of Bubonic Brown and Fiery Orange (to use
>>>GW shades for reference, and because they're what I have available),
>>>but I'm not sure how many layers to use or proportions. I don't mix colours
>>>very often, tending to use a succession of lighter basecoats and highlights
>>>instead.
>>
>>I'd basecoat brown, highlight orange, blue and brown wash.
>
>Blue?
For deeper shadows, cool contrast against orange-ish hair. Try it! :)
>>>Now I'm painting to a standard I doubt I'll want to go over again soon,
>>>I should really get the matt out.
>>
>>Feels good to have things "done", eh?
>
>It would, if I didn't still have three armies, three warbands, a fleet and a
>half-assembled Epic force to 'get done', quite apart from my latest Woodies,
>Eldar and various unpainted Lizards...
More or less than 400 items total? :P
P Bowles
johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) writes:
>pbo...@aol.com (P Bowles) wrote:
>>johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) writes:
>
>>>Cleaner and simpler often works better. And probably saves you a lot of
>>>time.
>>
>>I still can't work out why my Warp Spiders took so long...
>
>More posting than painting? :P
>
>Seriously, Warp Spiders have the most surface area to paint of any "ordinary"
>Eldar trooper short of a Swooping Hawk, and unlike the Hawks, their Spinners
>are far more ornate than basic Lasguns^H^H^H^Hblasters.
Yes, I think I went over the spinners quite a few times in various colours.
Using three base colours in fairly similar quantities rather than the normal
one or two for an Aspect probably had a lot to do with it as well.
>>>>On this subject - does anyone have a good colour combination or blending
>>>>scheme for producing auburn hair?
>>>
>>>I'm not quite sure what this should look like.
>>
>>Somwhere between blond and redhead.
>
>Oh, OK. It may be best to base in orange, and use thin brown and brown wash
>to
>develop your base color, then to work up with oranges and tans. I think
>you've got a real headscratcher here.
I think I'll experiment on a Glade Guard before trying it with the characters,
certainly, but I'll try it this way.
But when I get a chance, I'll drop a
>pic
>of what I did with my first batch of Banshees.
Just as long as they don't look like Trollslayers, I'll be happy. :-)
>>>>Now I'm painting to a standard I doubt I'll want to go over again soon,
>>>>I should really get the matt out.
>>>
>>>Feels good to have things "done", eh?
>>
>>It would, if I didn't still have three armies, three warbands, a fleet and a
>>half-assembled Epic force to 'get done', quite apart from my latest Woodies,
>>Eldar and various unpainted Lizards...
>
>More or less than 400 items total? :P
>
Not counting Epic, probably less - just, with each whole unpainted army (High
Elves, Tomb Kings, Dark Eldar) amounting to 100 figures or thereabouts.
Philip Bowles
The Ancient Gamer
The Ancient Gamer
news:20030502122931...@mb-m15.aol.com...
Go get some tubes of burnt sienna and raw umber, start with the darker color
and then add the lighter, add a bit of white and red occasionally as you
progressively lighten the shades of the hair. I missed the question earlier
or I would have answered it before...
smithdoerr
> It was twenty years ago today, smithdoerr taught the band to play
>
> >> I found a coat of Testors Dullcote over a gloss enamel gives the nice
> >> flat effect, with the extra durability that you don't get from a
> >> matte alone.
> >
> > How does Testors Dullcote look over metallic paints? Ages ago I had
> > some Figure Flat (can't remember the company that made it) that you
> > could spray over a gloss finish and the figure looked like it didn't
> > have any finish on it at all. Looked great except it dulled the
> > metals so much that it was difficult to tell the difference between
> > parts painted with Gun Metal and parts painted with Gray. I always
> > had to repaint all the metal bits and paint a semi-gloss finish over
> > them.
> >
> I don't tend to use metals very much, if I do there isn't a lot of it on
> the figure. But I did do the cockpits of my Silent Death figures in
> silver, and after the dullcote they look fine, and the gold on my
> Warmachine figures certainly didn't suffer for it.
I'll have to find some and give it a try then. Right now I'm using Krylon
matt and Armory matt over a gloss finish but they don't cut the shine enough
resulting in a semi-gloss/satin finish that I don't really like.
--
-smithdoerr
Kurt
>> I don't tend to use metals very much, if I do there isn't a lot of it
>> on the figure. But I did do the cockpits of my Silent Death figures
>> in silver, and after the dullcote they look fine, and the gold on my
>> Warmachine figures certainly didn't suffer for it.
>
> I'll have to find some and give it a try then. Right now I'm using
> Krylon matt and Armory matt over a gloss finish but they don't cut the
> shine enough resulting in a semi-gloss/satin finish that I don't
> really like.
>
If you don't seal the figures with anything else first make sure they are
super 100% dry before spraying. Occasionally on white areas you may get a
little bleed from ink if you have any adjacent which then needs touching up
- shouldn't happen unless the figure hasn't had a while to sit though.
Kurt
>> I found a coat of Testors Dullcote over a gloss enamel gives the nice
>> flat effect, with the extra durability that you don't get from a
>> matte alone.
>
> Testors dullcote is some great stuff, also sold at Hobby Lobby. I wish
> it came in bigger spray cans, though.
Yeah, they're dinky little cans. Luckily since I already have a coat of
varnish on when I use it, I can just apply a thin coat to take the shine
off. Which reminds me, I did a batch of Battletech figures, and only
dullcoted one side (forgot about the other entirely). It looks very odd
having one side totally flat and the other super shiny.
P Bowles
Ancient Gamer" <ancien...@juno.com> writes:
>> >Oh, OK. It may be best to base in orange, and use thin brown and brown
>wash
>> >to
>> >develop your base color, then to work up with oranges and tans. I think
>> >you've got a real headscratcher here.
>>
>> I think I'll experiment on a Glade Guard before trying it with the
>characters,
>> certainly, but I'll try it this way.
>>
>
>Go get some tubes of burnt sienna and raw umber, start with the darker color
>and then add the lighter, add a bit of white and red occasionally as you
>progressively lighten the shades of the hair. I missed the question earlier
>or I would have answered it before...
>
Thanks. I'll give both methods a try on 'expendable' models...
Philip Bowles
John Hwang
>> >But then I have more than likely been painting figures longer then many
>> >of the people who read this group have been alive...
>>
>> Sadly, I'm in this category, too. OTOH, change "many" to "the vast
>> majority", and you've probably got me beat.
>
>Not Probably, I have been painting mini's for 35 years now...
OK, old man. Time for your nap. :P
John Hwang
>>Seriously, Warp Spiders have the most surface area to paint of any
>>"ordinary" Eldar trooper short of a Swooping Hawk, and unlike the
>> Hawks, their Spinners are far more ornate than basic
>>Lasguns^H^H^H^Hblasters.
>
>Yes, I think I went over the spinners quite a few times in various colours.
>Using three base colours in fairly similar quantities rather than the normal
>one or two for an Aspect probably had a lot to do with it as well.
See? My Spiders were just as much trouble.
>>Oh, OK. It may be best to base in orange, and use thin brown and
>> brown wash to develop your base color, then to work up with
>>oranges and tans. I think you've got a real headscratcher here.
>
>I think I'll experiment on a Glade Guard before trying it with the
>characters, certainly, but I'll try it this way.
>
>> But when I get a chance, I'll drop a pic
>>of what I did with my first batch of Banshees.
>
>Just as long as they don't look like Trollslayers, I'll be happy. :-)
OK. :)
>>>>Feels good to have things "done", eh?
>>>
>>>It would, if I didn't still have three armies, three warbands, a fleet and
>>>a half-assembled Epic force to 'get done', quite apart from my latest
>>>Woodies, Eldar and various unpainted Lizards...
>>
>>More or less than 400 items total? :P
>
>Not counting Epic, probably less - just, with each whole unpainted
>army (High Elves, Tomb Kings, Dark Eldar) amounting to 100
>figures or thereabouts.
At most recent count, I'm hovering around 400 across several projects and
armies. It's bad. Really bad.
P Bowles
johnhw...@cs.com.no.com (John Hwang) writes:
>>> But when I get a chance, I'll drop a pic
>>>of what I did with my first batch of Banshees.
>>
>>Just as long as they don't look like Trollslayers, I'll be happy. :-)
>
>OK. :)
But I'd rather they didn't look like Marge Simpson either...
Philip Bowles
John Hwang
>From: pbo...@aol.com (P Bowles)
>Date: 5/6/2003 12:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20030506035517...@mb-m11.aol.com>
No, I didn't paint blue.