Feedback needed for 2500p vanilla Space Marine army
Jacob
I'm new to playing 40k and would like some feedback on this army list I've created.
Thanks.
--
Jacob Jorvang
Raptors (Vanilla Space Marines) - 2500p
Force Commander & Command Squad - 350p
1 force commander:mc plasma pistol+power weapon+term honours+iron halo
1 apothecary:meltagun+reductor
1 marine:meltagun
8 marines:bolters
Librarian - 112p
ccw+bolt pistol+frags+kraks+auspex+artificer armor+psychic hood
Dreadnought - 133p
ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
Dreadnought - 133p
ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
Dreadnought - 133p
ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
8 marines:bolters
Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
8 marines:bolters
Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 260p
2 marines:plasma pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
8 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 185p
1 vet sgt:bolt pistol+powerfist+frags+meltabombs+jump pack+term.honors
4 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+meltabombs+jump pack
Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
2 marines:lascannons
2 marines:plasmacannons
5 marines:bolters
Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
2 marines:lascannons
2 marines:plasmacannons
5 marines:bolters
Mikael
Jacob posted furiously:
> Hey all!
>
> I'm new to playing 40k and would like some feedback on this army list I've created.
We'd all be happier if this was tagged [40K]. If you're unfamiliar with
tags, check out the FAQ at http://www.rgmw.org .
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Jacob Jorvang
OK, first question: are you using the trial assault rules (TAR) or the
close combat rules in the rulebook?
> Raptors (Vanilla Space Marines) - 2500p
>
> Force Commander & Command Squad - 350p
> 1 force commander:mc plasma pistol+power weapon+term honours+iron halo
Aaaarrrggghhh! No plasma pistols from the armoury. Ever. They're not
worth it. Under TAR, he'd be much better off with a power fist.
> 1 apothecary:meltagun+reductor
> 1 marine:meltagun
I believe this isn't legal. The special weapons should go to a regular
Marine in the squad, not one of the upgraded characters.
> 8 marines:bolters
You want a transport for these guys.
> Librarian - 112p
> ccw+bolt pistol+frags+kraks+auspex+artificer armor+psychic hood
The auspex does _nothing_. Which squad does he run with?
> Dreadnought - 133p
> ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
>
> Dreadnought - 133p
> ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
>
> Dreadnought - 133p
> ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
Nice.
> Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
Bolt pistol? Where do you get that?
> 1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
> 8 marines:bolters
>
> Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
> 1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
> 8 marines:bolters
These guys need transports to get into the fight, unless you're only
playing Nids or something.
> Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
> 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
The kraks are useless; if these guys end up in close combat they're
toast. Also, I'm not convinced sniper rifles are worth it on Scouts.
> Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
> 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
Same again.
> Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 260p
> 2 marines:plasma pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> 8 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
>
> Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 185p
> 1 vet sgt:bolt pistol+powerfist+frags+meltabombs+jump pack+term.honors
> 4 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+meltabombs+jump pack
Both squads should have veteran sergeants with power fists under TAR.
Also, I'd balance their numbers. One squad of 10 and another of 5 is a
bit silly, as 5 is a bit too small to be effective.
> Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> 2 marines:lascannons
> 2 marines:plasmacannons
> 5 marines:bolters
>
> Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> 2 marines:lascannons
> 2 marines:plasmacannons
> 5 marines:bolters
Unnecessarily big squads, IMO. And never take lascannons in Dev squads,
as they're bloody expensive. Plasma cannons go with missile launchers or
more plasma, not lascannons.
--
Mikael
Chaotic Neutral
RGMW Minister of Law
==FAQ at http://www.rgmw.org - read it!==
Myrmidon
Mikael shouted out the following words of wit...
> In article <dafcd3dc.03030...@posting.google.com>, a sleeping
> Jacob posted furiously:
> > Hey all!
> >
> > I'm new to playing 40k and would like some feedback on this army list I've created.
>
> We'd all be happier if this was tagged [40K]. If you're unfamiliar with
> tags, check out the FAQ at http://www.rgmw.org .
>
>
> OK, first question: are you using the trial assault rules (TAR) or the
> close combat rules in the rulebook?
>
> > Raptors (Vanilla Space Marines) - 2500p
> >
> > Force Commander & Command Squad - 350p
> > 1 force commander:mc plasma pistol+power weapon+term honours+iron halo
>
> Aaaarrrggghhh! No plasma pistols from the armoury. Ever. They're not
> worth it. Under TAR, he'd be much better off with a power fist.
I like the plasma pistols - not so much because they earn their
points in a game - I just think they look stonkin' ard! on the minis.
Looks - 1 Tactics - 0 ;)
>
> > 1 apothecary:meltagun+reductor
> > 1 marine:meltagun
>
> I believe this isn't legal. The special weapons should go to a regular
> Marine in the squad, not one of the upgraded characters.
>
Correct. The character upgrades get equipment from the armory, not
the heavy weapons listed for the regular marines in the HQ squad entry.
He could arm the Medic with a bolter melta combi weapon if he really
wanted to, but I'm not sure it would be worth the points. Then again,
RTM's a right bastard with his combi weapons, ya never know.
> > 8 marines:bolters
>
> You want a transport for these guys.
Yes! Walking is damn slow. Besides, they get mud and dirt on their
polished armor. And Emperor knows, dirt and inefficiency go hand in hand.
>
> > Librarian - 112p
> > ccw+bolt pistol+frags+kraks+auspex+artificer armor+psychic hood
>
> The auspex does _nothing_. Which squad does he run with?
No no, RTM's told you a thousand times - it's "THE GOGGLES DO
NOTHING!" Auspex is moderately useful in scenarios with loads of
infiltrators, but other wise there are loads of more useful things the
points could be put towards.
>
> > Dreadnought - 133p
> > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> >
> > Dreadnought - 133p
> > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> >
> > Dreadnought - 133p
> > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
>
> Nice.
It's gonna suck to be on the receiving end of that! (Glad I got the
plasma cannon arm for X-mas for my Dread. Now I just have to get it
painted. :)
>
> > Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
>
> Bolt pistol? Where do you get that?
I think he's not understanding that the mini gives up it's normal
weapon when it gets a heavy or special weapon. He does this repeatedly
throughout the list. He did say he was new.
>
> > 1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
> > 8 marines:bolters
> >
> > Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
> > 1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
> > 8 marines:bolters
>
> These guys need transports to get into the fight, unless you're only
> playing Nids or something.
>
> > Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
> > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> > 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
>
> The kraks are useless; if these guys end up in close combat they're
> toast. Also, I'm not convinced sniper rifles are worth it on Scouts.
They're not bad for pinning Non-nid horde type troops. Which is
especially handy when you want to pummel said hordes with artillery too.
He'd be better off ditching the Kraks and just making a Vet Sgt with a
melta if he really needed the vehicle busting power no? He also has it so
that the Sgt is armed with a sniper rifle, which also isn't legal. Jacob
- when the regular models in a squad take a heavy weapon / assault weapon
or a special weapon they loose their regular weapons. In addition the Sgt
in a squad can't take a heavy/assault or other special weapon that are
options for the regular members of the squad. (I don't know what the logic
behind that is, but that's the way GW does it.) Veteran Sgts can take
wargear from the armory, but you'll find that none of the wargear options
are heavy/assault weapons or sniper rifles that the regular troopers can
take.
>
> > Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
> > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> > 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
>
> Same again.
>
> > Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 260p
> > 2 marines:plasma pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> > 8 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> >
> > Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 185p
> > 1 vet sgt:bolt pistol+powerfist+frags+meltabombs+jump pack+term.honors
> > 4 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+meltabombs+jump pack
>
> Both squads should have veteran sergeants with power fists under TAR.
> Also, I'd balance their numbers. One squad of 10 and another of 5 is a
> bit silly, as 5 is a bit too small to be effective.
>
Yeah, I'd think of dropping one marine and make two squads of 7 each
and giving both a Vet Sgt. In Jacob's defense, it looks like he's got the
smaller squad designed to be a dedicated anti-tank unit with the p-fist
and melts. But if he's going to do that, why worry about giving the
scouts krak or melta?
> > Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> > 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> > 2 marines:lascannons
> > 2 marines:plasmacannons
> > 5 marines:bolters
> >
> > Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> > 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> > 2 marines:lascannons
> > 2 marines:plasmacannons
> > 5 marines:bolters
>
> Unnecessarily big squads, IMO. And never take lascannons in Dev squads,
> as they're bloody expensive. Plasma cannons go with missile launchers or
> more plasma, not lascannons.
>
Agreed, and one or two extra bolter marines are handy ablative armor
for the squad, but 5 extra per squad is a waste of points for a squad that
should spend most of it's time at longer range blasting away with the
heavy weapons. The points saved could be put towards a Rhino for one of
the tac squads. Other than the point about Jacob not understanding that
only troops get squad special or heavy weapons, and that a model's regular
weapon is replace when they buy a heavy or special weapon - I think he did
ok for an admitted newbie.
Myrmidon
--
#1582. I think they call it Warhammer "40K" because that is how
much you are going to have to make per year in order to play.
- Eric Noland
# 1082. Pound for pound I can buy cocaine cheaper than
raise a Warhammer army
- Roy Cox
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/gwprice/
****
RGMW FAQ: http://www.rgmw.org
Or...
Myrmidon
Mikael shouted out the following words of wit...
> Jacob posted furiously:
> > Hey all!
> >
> > I'm new to playing 40k and would like some feedback on this army list I've created.
>
> We'd all be happier if this was tagged [40K]. If you're unfamiliar with
> tags, check out the FAQ at http://www.rgmw.org .
>
>
> OK, first question: are you using the trial assault rules (TAR) or the
> close combat rules in the rulebook?
>
> > Raptors (Vanilla Space Marines) - 2500p
> >
> > Force Commander & Command Squad - 350p
> > 1 force commander:mc plasma pistol+power weapon+term honours+iron halo
>
> Aaaarrrggghhh! No plasma pistols from the armoury. Ever. They're not
> worth it. Under TAR, he'd be much better off with a power fist.
I like the plasma pistols - not so much because they earn their
points in a game - I just think they look stonkin' ard! on the minis.
Looks - 1 Tactics - 0 ;)
>
> > 1 apothecary:meltagun+reductor
> > 1 marine:meltagun
>
> I believe this isn't legal. The special weapons should go to a regular
> Marine in the squad, not one of the upgraded characters.
>
Correct. The character upgrades get equipment from the armory, not
the heavy weapons listed for the regular marines in the HQ squad entry.
He could arm the Medic with a bolter melta combi weapon if he really
wanted to, but I'm not sure it would be worth the points. Then again,
RTM's a right bastard with his combi weapons, ya never know.
> > 8 marines:bolters
>
> You want a transport for these guys.
Yes! Walking is damn slow. Besides, they get mud and dirt on their
polished armor. And Emperor knows, dirt and inefficiency go hand in hand.
>
> > Librarian - 112p
> > ccw+bolt pistol+frags+kraks+auspex+artificer armor+psychic hood
>
> The auspex does _nothing_. Which squad does he run with?
No no, RTM's told you a thousand times - it's "THE GOGGLES DO
NOTHING!" Auspex is moderately useful in scenarios with loads of
infiltrators, but other wise there are loads of more useful things the
points could be put towards.
>
> > Dreadnought - 133p
> > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> >
> > Dreadnought - 133p
> > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> >
> > Dreadnought - 133p
> > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
>
> Nice.
It's gonna suck to be on the receiving end of that! (Glad I got the
plasma cannon arm for X-mas for my Dread. Now I just have to get it
painted. :)
>
> > Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
>
> Bolt pistol? Where do you get that?
I think he's not understanding that the mini gives up it's normal
weapon when it gets a heavy or special weapon. He does this repeatedly
throughout the list. He did say he was new.
>
> > 1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
> > 8 marines:bolters
> >
> > Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
> > 1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
> > 8 marines:bolters
>
> These guys need transports to get into the fight, unless you're only
> playing Nids or something.
>
> > Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
> > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> > 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
>
> The kraks are useless; if these guys end up in close combat they're
> toast. Also, I'm not convinced sniper rifles are worth it on Scouts.
They're not bad for pinning Non-nid horde type troops. Which is
especially handy when you want to pummel said hordes with artillery too.
He'd be better off ditching the Kraks and just making a Vet Sgt with a
melta if he really needed the vehicle busting power no? He also has it so
that the Sgt is armed with a sniper rifle, which also isn't legal. Jacob
- when the regular models in a squad take a heavy weapon / assault weapon
or a special weapon they loose their regular weapons. In addition the Sgt
in a squad can't take a heavy/assault or other special weapon that are
options for the regular members of the squad. (I don't know what the logic
behind that is, but that's the way GW does it.) Veteran Sgts can take
wargear from the armory, but you'll find that none of the wargear options
are heavy/assault weapons or sniper rifles that the regular troopers can
take.
>
> > Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
> > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> > 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
>
> Same again.
>
> > Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 260p
> > 2 marines:plasma pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> > 8 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> >
> > Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 185p
> > 1 vet sgt:bolt pistol+powerfist+frags+meltabombs+jump pack+term.honors
> > 4 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+meltabombs+jump pack
>
> Both squads should have veteran sergeants with power fists under TAR.
> Also, I'd balance their numbers. One squad of 10 and another of 5 is a
> bit silly, as 5 is a bit too small to be effective.
>
Yeah, I'd think of dropping one marine and make two squads of 7 each
and giving both a Vet Sgt. In Jacob's defense, it looks like he's got the
smaller squad designed to be a dedicated anti-tank unit with the p-fist
and melts. But if he's going to do that, why worry about giving the
scouts krak or melta?
> > Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> > 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> > 2 marines:lascannons
> > 2 marines:plasmacannons
> > 5 marines:bolters
> >
> > Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> > 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> > 2 marines:lascannons
> > 2 marines:plasmacannons
> > 5 marines:bolters
>
> Unnecessarily big squads, IMO. And never take lascannons in Dev squads,
> as they're bloody expensive. Plasma cannons go with missile launchers or
> more plasma, not lascannons.
>
Marshall Dragoo
> Hey all!
>
> I'm new to playing 40k and would like some feedback on this army list I've created.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Jacob Jorvang
>
>
> Raptors (Vanilla Space Marines) - 2500p
>
> Force Commander & Command Squad - 350p
> 1 force commander:mc plasma pistol+power weapon+term honours+iron halo
> 1 apothecary:meltagun+reductor
> 1 marine:meltagun
> 8 marines:bolters
>
Plasma pistol may look cool, but I would consider some lighting claws
for my guy. This squad 'needs' a Rhino in a bad way.
> Librarian - 112p
> ccw+bolt pistol+frags+kraks+auspex+artificer armor+psychic hood
>
Alot of guys will tell you that force weapons suck. Well, they are
pricey, but nothing is more satisfying than dropping a Bloodthirster
with a force weapon. I'd lose the articifer armor, though. At least
give him a power weapon, but drop the frags/kraks and go with
meltabombs.
> Dreadnought - 133p
> ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
>
> Dreadnought - 133p
> ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
>
> Dreadnought - 133p
> ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
>
Good way for 'nilla Marines to get plasma cannons. I play Dark Angels,
so I just stick 'em in tac squads.
> Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
> 1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
> 8 marines:bolters
>
> Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
> 1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
> 8 marines:bolters
>
> Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
> 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
>
Snipers are also good for big guys, such as C'tan, carnies,
wraithlords(Hey Jello boy, should have kept your Orks and give'em
Lootas with sniper rifles.)
> Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
> 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
>
> Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 260p
> 2 marines:plasma pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> 8 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
>
No vet?
> Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 185p
> 1 vet sgt:bolt pistol+powerfist+frags+meltabombs+jump pack+term.honors
> 4 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+meltabombs+jump pack
>
> Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> 2 marines:lascannons
> 2 marines:plasmacannons
> 5 marines:bolters
>
Vet sarges, unless you're playing Salamanders(Hi, Pat!) should not be
given vets in dev squads. Salamanders can give vets signums, like
techmarines can re-roll one shot per round. Also, it's not good to mix
ranges. 2 las/2 ML, or 4 ML(my favorite), or 2 plasma cannon/2 HB. I
like 4 HB's, but I would keep the squad small, and take a second with
some tank busting weapons. I also like big dev squads(for armor for
the other guys).
> Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> 2 marines:lascannons
> 2 marines:plasmacannons
> 5 marines:bolters
See above.
Jacob, you're army's not bad for a newb, but just needs a little
focus. Some mobility wouldn't hurt, either. You've got just 2 squads
with mobility, but those assault squads will be the focus of your
opponent, because after that, if they have transports, they can
rapidly engage you on grounds of their choosing, not yours. I'm not
talking Rhino rush, just a couple of vet squads(something 'nilla
Marines get that Dark Angels don't) would be ok, but your 3 dreads
would go down to 1. You could use tacs in this way(Something I have to
do) for this purpose.
If you want a good website for new marine players(and cool looking
Redheads) go to: www.thewarp.net/war/tigersofveda
Kenton Kilgore is the site's owner, and I can spend hours reading all
the cool things he's done with the site. Make sure you read about the
'RedHead' his female SM force commander w/LC's. One of the best
looking minis I've seen.
Also, there should be a link on his site for the Bolter and
Chainsword, an all SM forum. Pretty good stuff on there as well. Good
luck with your army! Tell us how you fare!
Marshall Dragoo
RGMW regular
Mikael
Myrmidon posted furiously:
> In article <MPG.18cdda822...@news.inet.fi>, mik...@ci5.gov,
> Mikael shouted out the following words of wit...
> > In article <dafcd3dc.03030...@posting.google.com>, a sleeping
> > Jacob posted furiously:
> > > Raptors (Vanilla Space Marines) - 2500p
> > >
> > > Force Commander & Command Squad - 350p
> > > 1 force commander:mc plasma pistol+power weapon+term honours+iron halo
> >
> > Aaaarrrggghhh! No plasma pistols from the armoury. Ever. They're not
> > worth it. Under TAR, he'd be much better off with a power fist.
>
> I like the plasma pistols - not so much because they earn their
> points in a game - I just think they look stonkin' ard! on the minis.
> Looks - 1 Tactics - 0 ;)
That's pretty much why I want to put together a Raven Guard force,
actually... =) I'll bet the command squad with jump packs and lightning
claws will _never_ earn its points back, but it's going to look hella
cool.
> > > 1 apothecary:meltagun+reductor
> > > 1 marine:meltagun
> >
> > I believe this isn't legal. The special weapons should go to a regular
> > Marine in the squad, not one of the upgraded characters.
> >
> Correct. The character upgrades get equipment from the armory, not
> the heavy weapons listed for the regular marines in the HQ squad entry.
That's what I thought.
> He could arm the Medic with a bolter melta combi weapon if he really
> wanted to, but I'm not sure it would be worth the points. Then again,
> RTM's a right bastard with his combi weapons, ya never know.
I was seriously considering a Hellfire command squad with two flamers and
an Apothecary, Techmarine and Vet sergeant with combi-flamers. Bring me
your Tau! =)
> > > 8 marines:bolters
> >
> > You want a transport for these guys.
>
> Yes! Walking is damn slow. Besides, they get mud and dirt on their
> polished armor. And Emperor knows, dirt and inefficiency go hand in hand.
Hail cleanliness.
> > > Librarian - 112p
> > > ccw+bolt pistol+frags+kraks+auspex+artificer armor+psychic hood
> >
> > The auspex does _nothing_. Which squad does he run with?
>
> No no, RTM's told you a thousand times - it's "THE GOGGLES DO
> NOTHING!"
Auspex = goggles. Besides, in Necromunda, the goggles do something. =P
> Auspex is moderately useful in scenarios with loads of
> infiltrators, but other wise there are loads of more useful things the
> points could be put towards.
I wouldn't put one on a Librarian, though.
> > > Dreadnought - 133p
> > > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> > >
> > > Dreadnought - 133p
> > > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> > >
> > > Dreadnought - 133p
> > > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> >
> > Nice.
>
> It's gonna suck to be on the receiving end of that!
Yup.
> (Glad I got the
> plasma cannon arm for X-mas for my Dread. Now I just have to get it
> painted. :)
Did you get the Forgeworld creation? How much was it?
> > > Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> > > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
> >
> > Bolt pistol? Where do you get that?
>
> I think he's not understanding that the mini gives up it's normal
> weapon when it gets a heavy or special weapon. He does this repeatedly
> throughout the list. He did say he was new.
I'm just wondering where he got the idea.
<snip>
> > > Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
> > > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> > > 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> >
> > The kraks are useless; if these guys end up in close combat they're
> > toast. Also, I'm not convinced sniper rifles are worth it on Scouts.
>
> They're not bad for pinning Non-nid horde type troops. Which is
> especially handy when you want to pummel said hordes with artillery too.
> He'd be better off ditching the Kraks and just making a Vet Sgt with a
> melta if he really needed the vehicle busting power no?
I'm more of the opinion that if these guys end up close enough to a
vehicle to use meltas, they're as good as dead. But yeah, that'd be one
way to do it. I just don't see the Vet being worth it in a shooty Scout
squad. Too many points in one non-CC, 4+ save model.
> He also has it so
> that the Sgt is armed with a sniper rifle, which also isn't legal.
Darn, missed that.
<snip>
> > > Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 260p
> > > 2 marines:plasma pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> > > 8 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> > >
> > > Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 185p
> > > 1 vet sgt:bolt pistol+powerfist+frags+meltabombs+jump pack+term.honors
> > > 4 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+meltabombs+jump pack
> >
> > Both squads should have veteran sergeants with power fists under TAR.
> > Also, I'd balance their numbers. One squad of 10 and another of 5 is a
> > bit silly, as 5 is a bit too small to be effective.
> >
> Yeah, I'd think of dropping one marine and make two squads of 7 each
> and giving both a Vet Sgt. In Jacob's defense, it looks like he's got the
> smaller squad designed to be a dedicated anti-tank unit with the p-fist
> and melts.
Yeah, but a squad with only five guys is very risky IMO.
> But if he's going to do that, why worry about giving the
> scouts krak or melta?
Precisely.
> > > Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> > > 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> > > 2 marines:lascannons
> > > 2 marines:plasmacannons
> > > 5 marines:bolters
> > >
> > > Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> > > 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> > > 2 marines:lascannons
> > > 2 marines:plasmacannons
> > > 5 marines:bolters
> >
> > Unnecessarily big squads, IMO. And never take lascannons in Dev squads,
> > as they're bloody expensive. Plasma cannons go with missile launchers or
> > more plasma, not lascannons.
> >
> Agreed, and one or two extra bolter marines are handy ablative armor
> for the squad, but 5 extra per squad is a waste of points for a squad that
> should spend most of it's time at longer range blasting away with the
> heavy weapons. The points saved could be put towards a Rhino for one of
> the tac squads. Other than the point about Jacob not understanding that
> only troops get squad special or heavy weapons, and that a model's regular
> weapon is replace when they buy a heavy or special weapon - I think he did
> ok for an admitted newbie.
Absolutely. We've seen far poorer showings.
Jacob
[SNIP]
> We'd all be happier if this was tagged [40K]. If you're unfamiliar with
> tags, check out the FAQ at http://www.rgmw.org .
Will do.
[SNIP]
> OK, first question: are you using the trial assault rules (TAR) or the
> close combat rules in the rulebook?
Never heard of them, so no. Where can I find a copy?
[SNIP]
> > Force Commander & Command Squad - 350p
> > 1 force commander:mc plasma pistol+power weapon+term honours+iron halo
>
> Aaaarrrggghhh! No plasma pistols from the armoury. Ever. They're not
> worth it. Under TAR, he'd be much better off with a power fist.
Why? Str.7 AP2 sounds like a pretty good hth weapon to me.
> > 1 apothecary:meltagun+reductor
> > 1 marine:meltagun
>
> I believe this isn't legal. The special weapons should go to a regular
> Marine in the squad, not one of the upgraded characters.
Yeah, I guess you're right. My bad.
> > 8 marines:bolters
>
> You want a transport for these guys.
Perhaps.
> > Librarian - 112p
> > ccw+bolt pistol+frags+kraks+auspex+artificer armor+psychic hood
>
> The auspex does _nothing_. Which squad does he run with?
He has no squad. The auspex was a mistake.
> > Dreadnought - 133p
> > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> >
> > Dreadnought - 133p
> > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> >
> > Dreadnought - 133p
> > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
>
> Nice.
I think so too :-)
> > Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
>
> Bolt pistol? Where do you get that?
I can't find anywhere that says regular sergeants can't take weapons
that 'Space Marines' in the squad can take (sgt's are non-character
space marines too, aren't they?), so I swapped the sgt's bolter for a
bolt pistol and ccw and gave him the heavy bolter, discarding the ccw
due to limit on weapons carried.
I could be wrong. In that case the heavy bolter guy has no other
weapon (not even his bolter, due to restriction on number of weapons
carried).
> > 1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
> > 8 marines:bolters
> >
> > Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
> > 1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
> > 8 marines:bolters
>
> These guys need transports to get into the fight, unless you're only
> playing Nids or something.
Right. I could get some Rhinos, but aren't they rediculously easy to
blast to pieces?
> > Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
> > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> > 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
>
> The kraks are useless; if these guys end up in close combat they're
> toast. Also, I'm not convinced sniper rifles are worth it on Scouts.
They're intended to to assack flankers, like bikes for example. The
bikers higher toughness is useless againt the sniper rifle, so the
scouts are a cheap way to deal with these. They can also infiltrate
close to artillery and make a suicide run with krak grenades.
No good?
> > Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
> > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> > 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
>
> Same again.
>
> > Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 260p
> > 2 marines:plasma pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> > 8 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> >
> > Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 185p
> > 1 vet sgt:bolt pistol+powerfist+frags+meltabombs+jump pack+term.honors
> > 4 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+meltabombs+jump pack
>
> Both squads should have veteran sergeants with power fists under TAR.
> Also, I'd balance their numbers. One squad of 10 and another of 5 is a
> bit silly, as 5 is a bit too small to be effective.
The 10-man squad is intended to be very destructive against other
infantry, while the 5-man squad is effective againts tanks. Both have
good range, and should be able the back up any tactical marines in
over their heads.
> > Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> > 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> > 2 marines:lascannons
> > 2 marines:plasmacannons
> > 5 marines:bolters
> >
> > Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> > 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> > 2 marines:lascannons
> > 2 marines:plasmacannons
> > 5 marines:bolters
>
> Unnecessarily big squads, IMO. And never take lascannons in Dev squads,
> as they're bloody expensive. Plasma cannons go with missile launchers or
> more plasma, not lascannons.
IMO I need lascannons for dealing with enemy armor, and plasma cannons
for dealing with enemy infantry. Mixing the weapons in both squads is
meant to increase the life expectancy of each weapon type. The extra
marines are cannonfodder and defence against fast flankers, but I
guess 5 might be too expensive for the benefit.
--
Jacob Jorvang
Jacob
[SNIP]
> > You want a transport for these guys.
>
> Yes! Walking is damn slow. Besides, they get mud and dirt on their
> polished armor. And Emperor knows, dirt and inefficiency go hand in hand.
Well THAT goes without saying. What was I thinking... :-)
[SNIP]
> No no, RTM's told you a thousand times - it's "THE GOGGLES DO
> NOTHING!" Auspex is moderately useful in scenarios with loads of
> infiltrators, but other wise there are loads of more useful things the
> points could be put towards.
It's only 2 points... If my devastators can get a round of shooting at
infiltraters for 2 points, isn't that worth it?
[SNIP]
> Yeah, I'd think of dropping one marine and make two squads of 7 each
> and giving both a Vet Sgt. In Jacob's defense, it looks like he's got the
> smaller squad designed to be a dedicated anti-tank unit with the p-fist
> and melts. But if he's going to do that, why worry about giving the
> scouts krak or melta?
Because you can never have enough tank busting power?
[SNIP]
Other than the point about Jacob not understanding that
> only troops get squad special or heavy weapons, and that a model's regular
> weapon is replace when they buy a heavy or special weapon - I think he did
> ok for an admitted newbie.
Well, thank you :-)
I did consider the whole squad weapons/wargear issue, but I couldn't
find anywhere in the codex that stated that this was illegal, so I
went for it. I did have my doubt, though, as the sergeant models
always have standard squad weapons.
[SNIP]
--
Jacob Jorvang
Jacob
[SNIP]
> Alot of guys will tell you that force weapons suck. Well, they are
> pricey, but nothing is more satisfying than dropping a Bloodthirster
> with a force weapon. I'd lose the articifer armor, though. At least
> give him a power weapon, but drop the frags/kraks and go with
> meltabombs.
Well, the Librarian was the last thing I choose, so he got to spend
all the reamining points on goodies :-)
[SNIP]
> > Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 260p
> > 2 marines:plasma pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> > 8 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> >
> No vet?
Hmm... No... Wonder why, now that you mention it... :-)
> Vet sarges, unless you're playing Salamanders(Hi, Pat!) should not be
> given vets in dev squads. Salamanders can give vets signums, like
> techmarines can re-roll one shot per round. Also, it's not good to mix
> ranges. 2 las/2 ML, or 4 ML(my favorite), or 2 plasma cannon/2 HB. I
> like 4 HB's, but I would keep the squad small, and take a second with
> some tank busting weapons. I also like big dev squads(for armor for
> the other guys).
Actually, the vets went in the dev squads for the auspexes, but I may
have overvalued those.
[SNIP]
> Jacob, you're army's not bad for a newb, but just needs a little
> focus. Some mobility wouldn't hurt, either. You've got just 2 squads
> with mobility, but those assault squads will be the focus of your
> opponent, because after that, if they have transports, they can
> rapidly engage you on grounds of their choosing, not yours. I'm not
> talking Rhino rush, just a couple of vet squads(something 'nilla
> Marines get that Dark Angels don't) would be ok,
Hm, yes it may be a little imobile. I guess inf aren't any good at
shooting if they move (in Warhammer Fantasy, the just get a -1 to hit
IIRC). Maybe Rhinos are nessesary. They're just sitting ducks for
lascannons and the like.
> but your 3 dreads
> would go down to 1. You could use tacs in this way(Something I have to
> do) for this purpose.
But I loooooove dreads! They are the coolest looking models in the
game! :-)
[SNIP]
> If you want a good website for new marine players(and cool looking
> Redheads) go to: www.thewarp.net/war/tigersofveda
>
> Kenton Kilgore is the site's owner, and I can spend hours reading all
> the cool things he's done with the site. Make sure you read about the
> 'RedHead' his female SM force commander w/LC's. One of the best
> looking minis I've seen.
>
> Also, there should be a link on his site for the Bolter and
> Chainsword, an all SM forum. Pretty good stuff on there as well. Good
> luck with your army! Tell us how you fare!
I'll check them out.
[SNIP]
--
Jacob Jorvang
Mikael
Jacob posted furiously:<snip>
> > OK, first question: are you using the trial assault rules (TAR) or the
> > close combat rules in the rulebook?
>
> Never heard of them, so no. Where can I find a copy?
Unfortunately, I haven't the faintest idea. Were they in the new Chapter
Approved?
> > > Force Commander & Command Squad - 350p
> > > 1 force commander:mc plasma pistol+power weapon+term honours+iron halo
> >
> > Aaaarrrggghhh! No plasma pistols from the armoury. Ever. They're not
> > worth it. Under TAR, he'd be much better off with a power fist.
>
> Why? Str.7 AP2 sounds like a pretty good hth weapon to me.
As far as I know, it isn't a S7 AP2 weapon, it's just a ccw. Correct me
if I'm wrong here.
<snip>
> > > 8 marines:bolters
> >
> > You want a transport for these guys.
>
> Perhaps.
No, you do. They'll never get into combat otherwise, unless you're being
attacked. You don't want to walk to IG in a 2,500 point game!
> > > Librarian - 112p
> > > ccw+bolt pistol+frags+kraks+auspex+artificer armor+psychic hood
> >
> > The auspex does _nothing_. Which squad does he run with?
>
> He has no squad. The auspex was a mistake.
That's OK. But which squad are you going to set him up with? Tell me he's
not going to be dashing about on his own.
> > > Dreadnought - 133p
> > > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> > >
> > > Dreadnought - 133p
> > > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> > >
> > > Dreadnought - 133p
> > > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> >
> > Nice.
>
> I think so too :-)
Although the other side's going to hate you...
> > > Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> > > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
> >
> > Bolt pistol? Where do you get that?
>
> I can't find anywhere that says regular sergeants can't take weapons
> that 'Space Marines' in the squad can take (sgt's are non-character
> space marines too, aren't they?), so I swapped the sgt's bolter for a
> bolt pistol and ccw and gave him the heavy bolter, discarding the ccw
> due to limit on weapons carried.
>
> I could be wrong. In that case the heavy bolter guy has no other
> weapon (not even his bolter, due to restriction on number of weapons
> carried).
It does say "any Scout in the squad" in both the sniper rifle and the
heavy weapon options. The Sergeant, strictly speaking, isn't a scout.
> > > 1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
> > > 8 marines:bolters
> > >
> > > Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> > > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
> > > 1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
> > > 8 marines:bolters
> >
> > These guys need transports to get into the fight, unless you're only
> > playing Nids or something.
>
> Right. I could get some Rhinos, but aren't they rediculously easy to
> blast to pieces?
Not at all, and especially not under the new vehicle rules, if they
become official. Get a Rhino with extra armour and smoke launchers. Drive
it full forward and pop smoke. If you have several, several will get
through.
> > > Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
> > > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> > > 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> >
> > The kraks are useless; if these guys end up in close combat they're
> > toast. Also, I'm not convinced sniper rifles are worth it on Scouts.
>
> They're intended to to assack flankers, like bikes for example. The
> bikers higher toughness is useless againt the sniper rifle, so the
> scouts are a cheap way to deal with these. They can also infiltrate
> close to artillery and make a suicide run with krak grenades.
>
> No good?
Good for one of those roles, but not for both. If you want to run them as
infiltrators, the sniper rifles are useless; if you want them to defend,
the kraks are useless.
> > > Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
> > > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> > > 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
> >
> > Same again.
> >
> > > Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 260p
> > > 2 marines:plasma pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> > > 8 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+jump pack
> > >
> > > Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 185p
> > > 1 vet sgt:bolt pistol+powerfist+frags+meltabombs+jump pack+term.honors
> > > 4 marines:bolt pistols+ccw+frags+meltabombs+jump pack
> >
> > Both squads should have veteran sergeants with power fists under TAR.
> > Also, I'd balance their numbers. One squad of 10 and another of 5 is a
> > bit silly, as 5 is a bit too small to be effective.
>
> The 10-man squad is intended to be very destructive against other
> infantry, while the 5-man squad is effective againts tanks. Both have
> good range, and should be able the back up any tactical marines in
> over their heads.
You do want to even out the numbers a bit. 5 if awfully fragile. And the
bigger squad does need a Vet.
> > > Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> > > 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> > > 2 marines:lascannons
> > > 2 marines:plasmacannons
> > > 5 marines:bolters
> > >
> > > Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> > > 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> > > 2 marines:lascannons
> > > 2 marines:plasmacannons
> > > 5 marines:bolters
> >
> > Unnecessarily big squads, IMO. And never take lascannons in Dev squads,
> > as they're bloody expensive. Plasma cannons go with missile launchers or
> > more plasma, not lascannons.
>
> IMO I need lascannons for dealing with enemy armor, and plasma cannons
> for dealing with enemy infantry.
If you need lascannons, then take shooty Tac squads and put them in
those. Much greater life expectancy and 20 points cheaper.
> Mixing the weapons in both squads is
> meant to increase the life expectancy of each weapon type.
Yes, and wastes shots. If your lascannons are firing at heavy armour, the
S7 plasma cannon shots are totally wasted. If your plasma cannons are
firing at infantry, you're shooting 35 point lascannons at infantry.
Never mix anti-infantry and anti-tank weapons in Dev squads.
> The extra
> marines are cannonfodder and defence against fast flankers, but I
> guess 5 might be too expensive for the benefit.
It's excessive.
Jacob
[SNIP]
> > Why? Str.7 AP2 sounds like a pretty good hth weapon to me.
>
> As far as I know, it isn't a S7 AP2 weapon, it's just a ccw. Correct me
> if I'm wrong here.
Didn't think so, but that would certainly make it crappy for the
points.
[SNIP]
> > > You want a transport for these guys.
> >
> > Perhaps.
>
> No, you do. They'll never get into combat otherwise, unless you're being
> attacked. You don't want to walk to IG in a 2,500 point game!
Transport added :-)
[SNIP]
> > > > Librarian - 112p
> > > > ccw+bolt pistol+frags+kraks+auspex+artificer armor+psychic hood
> > >
> > > The auspex does _nothing_. Which squad does he run with?
> >
> > He has no squad. The auspex was a mistake.
>
> That's OK. But which squad are you going to set him up with? Tell me he's
> not going to be dashing about on his own.
Actually, that was the plan though maybe not a good plan... He could
join a tac squad.
[SNIP]
> > > > Dreadnought - 133p
> > > > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> > > >
> > > > Dreadnought - 133p
> > > > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> > > >
> > > > Dreadnought - 133p
> > > > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
> > >
> > > Nice.
> >
> > I think so too :-)
>
> Although the other side's going to hate you...
His problem, not mine :-)
[SNIP]
> > > > Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
> > > > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
> > >
> > > Bolt pistol? Where do you get that?
> >
> > I can't find anywhere that says regular sergeants can't take weapons
> > that 'Space Marines' in the squad can take (sgt's are non-character
> > space marines too, aren't they?), so I swapped the sgt's bolter for a
> > bolt pistol and ccw and gave him the heavy bolter, discarding the ccw
> > due to limit on weapons carried.
> >
> > I could be wrong. In that case the heavy bolter guy has no other
> > weapon (not even his bolter, due to restriction on number of weapons
> > carried).
>
> It does say "any Scout in the squad" in both the sniper rifle and the
> heavy weapon options. The Sergeant, strictly speaking, isn't a scout.
Actually, it says ?any model in the squad?. But on page 5 of
Codex:Space Marines under Options, it says that weapon option are not
available to sergeants, so I guess they aren't.
[SNIP]
> > They're intended to to assack flankers, like bikes for example. The
> > bikers higher toughness is useless againt the sniper rifle, so the
> > scouts are a cheap way to deal with these. They can also infiltrate
> > close to artillery and make a suicide run with krak grenades.
> >
> > No good?
>
> Good for one of those roles, but not for both. If you want to run them as
> infiltrators, the sniper rifles are useless; if you want them to defend,
> the kraks are useless.
I still like the versatility of having both options in the game. I
want them to have sniper rifles and the kraks are only 2p each, so
I'll stick with both.
[SNIP]
> You do want to even out the numbers [of assault marines] a bit. 5 if awfully fragile. And the
> bigger squad does need a Vet.
Done.
[SNIP]
> > Mixing the weapons in both [devastator] squads is
> > meant to increase the life expectancy of each weapon type.
>
> Yes, and wastes shots. If your lascannons are firing at heavy armour, the
> S7 plasma cannon shots are totally wasted. If your plasma cannons are
> firing at infantry, you're shooting 35 point lascannons at infantry.
> Never mix anti-infantry and anti-tank weapons in Dev squads.
Right. This was corrected.
> > The extra
> > marines are cannonfodder and defence against fast flankers, but I
> > guess 5 might be too expensive for the benefit.
>
> It's excessive.
Numbers have been reduced.
Here is the reviced army list. Still 2500p strong.
Like it better?
Force Commander & Command Squad in Rhino 433p
1 force commander: mc lightning claws+term honours+iron halo+artificer
armor+purity seals 170p
1 vet sgt: ccw+bolt pistol+auspex 32p
1 apothecary: bolter+reductor 23p
6 marines: bolters 108p
2 marines: flamers 42p
rhino: extra armor+smoke launchers 58p
Librarian 87p
ccw+bolt pistol+psychic hood 87p
Dreadnought 133p
ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers 133p
Dreadnought 133p
ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers 133p
Dreadnought 133p
ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers 133p
Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) in Rhino 223p
1 sgt: bolter 15p
7 marines: bolters 105p
1 marine: meltagun 25p
1 marine: heavy bolter 20p
rhino: extra armor+smoke launchers 58p
Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) in Rhino 223p
1 sgt: bolter 15p
7 marines: bolters 105p
1 marine: meltagun 25p
1 marine: heavy bolter 20p
rhino: extra armor+smoke launchers 58p
Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) 95p
1 sgt: ccw+bolt pistol+kraks 15p
4 marines: sniper rifles+kraks 80p
Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) 95p
1 sgt: ccw+bolt pistol+kraks 15p
4 marines: sniper rifles+kraks 80p
Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) 225p
1 vet sgt: powerfist+storm shield+frags+jump packs 75p
6 marines: bolt pistols+ccw+frags+jump packs 150p
Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) 200p
1 vet sgt: powerfist+storm shield+frags+jump packs 75p
5 marines: bolt pistols+ccw+frags+jump packs 125p
Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) 260p
1 sgt: bolter 15p
3 marines: bolters 45p
4 marines: lascannons 200p
Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) 260p
1 sgt: bolter 15p
3 marines: bolters 45p
4 marines: plasmacannons 200p
Mikael
Jacob posted furiously:
> >
> > As far as I know, it isn't a S7 AP2 weapon, it's just a ccw. Correct me
> > if I'm wrong here.
>
> Didn't think so, but that would certainly make it crappy for the
> points.
Well, where's the rules saying it's a S7 AP2 close combat weapon?
<snip>
> > > > > Librarian - 112p
> > > > > ccw+bolt pistol+frags+kraks+auspex+artificer armor+psychic hood
> > > >
> > > > The auspex does _nothing_. Which squad does he run with?
> > >
> > > He has no squad. The auspex was a mistake.
> >
> > That's OK. But which squad are you going to set him up with? Tell me he's
> > not going to be dashing about on his own.
>
> Actually, that was the plan though maybe not a good plan... He could
> join a tac squad.
Well, he's got to go somewhere. What good is a lone Librarian on foot
going to do anyone?
<snip>
> > > I can't find anywhere that says regular sergeants can't take weapons
> > > that 'Space Marines' in the squad can take (sgt's are non-character
> > > space marines too, aren't they?), so I swapped the sgt's bolter for a
> > > bolt pistol and ccw and gave him the heavy bolter, discarding the ccw
> > > due to limit on weapons carried.
> > >
> > > I could be wrong. In that case the heavy bolter guy has no other
> > > weapon (not even his bolter, due to restriction on number of weapons
> > > carried).
> >
> > It does say "any Scout in the squad" in both the sniper rifle and the
> > heavy weapon options. The Sergeant, strictly speaking, isn't a scout.
>
> Actually, it says ?any model in the squad?.
Not in my codex, it doesn't. I suppose I have a newer version.
> But on page 5 of
> Codex:Space Marines under Options, it says that weapon option are not
> available to sergeants, so I guess they aren't.
Well, that takes care of it nicely, then. I was wondering where exactly
that was written down...
<snip>
> Here is the reviced army list. Still 2500p strong.
>
> Like it better?
I'll see.
> Force Commander & Command Squad in Rhino 433p
> 1 force commander: mc lightning claws+term honours+iron halo+artificer
> armor+purity seals 170p
Yow. That's pretty damn expensive. Master-crafter lightning claws is
overdoing it IMHO. And why a Force Commander? Why not a Chaplain?
Cheaper.
> 1 vet sgt: ccw+bolt pistol+auspex 32p
There's really no point in upgrading him just so you can give him an
auspex. If you want one, upgrade one model to a Tech-marine or something,
and give it to him. It won't cost you nearly as much.
> 1 apothecary: bolter+reductor 23p
Why a bolter when this is obviously a close combat squad? Get him a bolt
pistol and ccw.
> 6 marines: bolters 108p
> 2 marines: flamers 42p
> rhino: extra armor+smoke launchers 58p
Not bad, though.
> Librarian 87p
> ccw+bolt pistol+psychic hood 87p
This guy desperately needs a power weapon, or preferably power fist.
> Dreadnought 133p
> ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers 133p
>
> Dreadnought 133p
> ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers 133p
>
> Dreadnought 133p
> ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers 133p
These are still nice.
> Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) in Rhino 223p
> 1 sgt: bolter 15p
> 7 marines: bolters 105p
> 1 marine: meltagun 25p
> 1 marine: heavy bolter 20p
> rhino: extra armor+smoke launchers 58p
Whoa. Very bad weapons mix. Go either anti-infantry or anti-tank with tac
squads.
> Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) in Rhino 223p
> 1 sgt: bolter 15p
> 7 marines: bolters 105p
> 1 marine: meltagun 25p
> 1 marine: heavy bolter 20p
> rhino: extra armor+smoke launchers 58p
>
> Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) 95p
> 1 sgt: ccw+bolt pistol+kraks 15p
> 4 marines: sniper rifles+kraks 80p
>
> Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) 95p
> 1 sgt: ccw+bolt pistol+kraks 15p
> 4 marines: sniper rifles+kraks 80p
>
> Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) 225p
> 1 vet sgt: powerfist+storm shield+frags+jump packs 75p
That's actually not a bad idea under old assault rules.
> 6 marines: bolt pistols+ccw+frags+jump packs 150p
>
> Assault Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) 200p
> 1 vet sgt: powerfist+storm shield+frags+jump packs 75p
> 5 marines: bolt pistols+ccw+frags+jump packs 125p
>
> Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) 260p
> 1 sgt: bolter 15p
> 3 marines: bolters 45p
> 4 marines: lascannons 200p
I still keep thinking it would be better to take two tac squads of 6 men
and put the lascannons there. I mean, what kind of a target needs the
simultaneous attention of _four_ lascannons? Apart from the bloody
Monolith, of course, but nobody needs to destroy that.
> Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) 260p
> 1 sgt: bolter 15p
> 3 marines: bolters 45p
> 4 marines: plasmacannons 200p
This is excellent.
John Hwang
>Jacob posted furiously:
>> > Aaaarrrggghhh! No plasma pistols from the armoury. Ever.
>> > They're not worth it.
Well, certainly not on a BS4 W1 model like a VS, esp. if only getting Sv4+ as a
Scout. But on a BS5 W2+ model, it might be. Particularly if he's got Sv2+.
>> >Under TAR, he'd be much better off
>> >with a power fist.
Yes.
>> Why? Str.7 AP2 sounds like a pretty good hth weapon to me.
Me too. Pity that 40k3 HtH doesn't work this way.
>As far as I know, it isn't a S7 AP2 weapon, it's just a ccw. Correct me
>if I'm wrong here.
You're right.
>> > > 8 marines:bolters
>> >
>> > You want a transport for these guys.
>>
>> Perhaps.
>
>No, you do. They'll never get into combat otherwise, unless you're being
>attacked. You don't want to walk to IG in a 2,500 point game!
If advancing, in Rhino, BP&CCW; if static, Bolters w/ ML or Lascannon & Plasma
Gunner in Razorback
>> > > 3x Dreadnought - 133p
>> > > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
How to convert the Plasma Cannon?
>Although the other side's going to hate you...
True.
>> > > Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 165p
>> > > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol
>It does say "any Scout in the squad" in both the sniper rifle and the
>heavy weapon options. The Sergeant, strictly speaking, isn't a scout.
True. But this is TACTICAL, not SCOUT.
>> > > 1 marine:meltagun+bolt pistol
>> > > 8 marines:bolters
So the HB and Meltagun guys don't have pistols.
>Not at all, and especially not under the new vehicle rules, if they
>become official. Get a Rhino with extra armour and smoke launchers.
>Drive it full forward and pop smoke. If you have several, several
>will get through.
True.
>> > > 2x Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) - 125p
>> > > 1 marine:heavy bolter+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
>> > > 4 marines:sniper rifle+bolt pistol+frags+kraks
Sergeant can't take HB or Sniper Rifle, as he's not a "Scout".
IIRC, HB and Sniper Rifles can't have pistols, due to the wording.
>You do want to even out the numbers a bit. 5 if awfully fragile. And the
>bigger squad does need a Vet.
With a PF.
>> > > 2x Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
>> > > 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
>> > > 2 marines:lascannons
>> > > 2 marines:plasmacannons
>> > > 5 marines:bolters
Reshuffle: 4x Plasma Cannon; 4x ML, move Lascannons to Tacticals.
>If you need lascannons, then take shooty Tac squads and put them in
>those. Much greater life expectancy and 20 points cheaper.
Yes.
>> Mixing the weapons in both squads is
>> meant to increase the life expectancy of each weapon type.
>
>Yes, and wastes shots. If your lascannons are firing at heavy armour, the
>S7 plasma cannon shots are totally wasted. If your plasma cannons are
>firing at infantry, you're shooting 35 point lascannons at infantry.
>Never mix anti-infantry and anti-tank weapons in Dev squads.
>
>> The extra
>> marines are cannonfodder and defence against fast flankers, but I
>> guess 5 might be too expensive for the benefit.
Well, at 4 Heavy Weapons, 3 extras would be the minimum.
--
--- John Hwang "JohnHw...@cs.com.no.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
Blue Raja
> > > As far as I know, it isn't a S7 AP2 weapon, it's just a ccw. Correct me
> > > if I'm wrong here.
> >
> > Didn't think so, but that would certainly make it crappy for the
> > points.
>
> Well, where's the rules saying it's a S7 AP2 close combat weapon?
Just to clarify, in HtH the PP counts as a CCW.
> > > That's OK. But which squad are you going to set him up with? Tell me
he's
> > > not going to be dashing about on his own.
> >
> > Actually, that was the plan though maybe not a good plan... He could
> > join a tac squad.
>
> Well, he's got to go somewhere. What good is a lone Librarian on foot
> going to do anyone?
He'll give some points to the other player for little effort.
> > > It does say "any Scout in the squad" in both the sniper rifle and the
> > > heavy weapon options. The Sergeant, strictly speaking, isn't a scout.
> >
> > Actually, it says ?any model in the squad?.
>
> Not in my codex, it doesn't. I suppose I have a newer version.
Mine says "any model" as well, but it's clarified elsewhere.
> > Force Commander & Command Squad in Rhino 433p
> > 1 force commander: mc lightning claws+term honours+iron halo+artificer
> > armor+purity seals 170p
>
> Yow. That's pretty damn expensive. Master-crafter lightning claws is
> overdoing it IMHO. And why a Force Commander? Why not a Chaplain?
> Cheaper.
Then you could drop the LCs too. Or use the Librarian as the HQ.
> > 1 vet sgt: ccw+bolt pistol+auspex 32p
>
> There's really no point in upgrading him just so you can give him an
> auspex. If you want one, upgrade one model to a Tech-marine or something,
> and give it to him. It won't cost you nearly as much.
It'd look better too.
> > Tactical Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) in Rhino 223p
> > 1 sgt: bolter 15p
> > 7 marines: bolters 105p
> > 1 marine: meltagun 25p
> > 1 marine: heavy bolter 20p
> > rhino: extra armor+smoke launchers 58p
>
> Whoa. Very bad weapons mix. Go either anti-infantry or anti-tank with tac
> squads.
Actually it's a better mix than you'd think, provided you remember that the
squad's role is tank busting. It is too big though, 8 or 9 would be better.
> > Scout Squad (1 Sgt. 4 Marines) 95p
> > 1 sgt: ccw+bolt pistol+kraks 15p
> > 4 marines: sniper rifles+kraks 80p
Sniper rifles and kraks still suck, you'll only ever use one or the other,
and in the event your opponent gets a tank within assault range of a squad of
snipers you shouldn't need the kraks anyway...
> > Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) 260p
> > 1 sgt: bolter 15p
> > 3 marines: bolters 45p
> > 4 marines: lascannons 200p
>
> I still keep thinking it would be better to take two tac squads of 6 men
> and put the lascannons there.
Yep. Throw a plasmagun into each squad as well.
> I mean, what kind of a target needs the
> simultaneous attention of _four_ lascannons?
Gav's retinae?
> Apart from the bloody
> Monolith, of course, but nobody needs to destroy that.
You'd be better off with 2 squads against a Mono anyway, assuming it doesn't
get into particle whip range.
> > Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) 260p
> > 1 sgt: bolter 15p
> > 3 marines: bolters 45p
> > 4 marines: plasmacannons 200p
>
> This is excellent.
It'd be better if the numbers in the parentheses were the squad sizes.
--
The Blue Raja
"It was only when listening to the Cure that I realized what
homonecropyrofelibestiality would really sound like." - Mikael
RGMW FAQ - By order of Yoda Bob
http://www.rgmw.org
Marshall Dragoo
<snip> Hi John.
> >> > > 3x Dreadnought - 133p
> >> > > ccw+hvy flamer+plasmacannon+extra armor+smoke launchers
>
> How to convert the Plasma Cannon?
>
John, I use the dev's PC arm, cut the shoulder off, file the hand as
best I can, and call it good. Using the plastic dread is recommended,
for it's a better fit than a metal one, IMHO.
> >Although the other side's going to hate you...
>
> True.
<snip>
> >> > > 2x Devastator Squad (1 Sgt. 9 Marines) - 307p
> >> > > 1 vet sgt:bolter+auspex+term.honors
> >> > > 2 marines:lascannons
> >> > > 2 marines:plasmacannons
> >> > > 5 marines:bolters
>
> Reshuffle: 4x Plasma Cannon; 4x ML, move Lascannons to Tacticals.
>
Absolutely. Especially with vanilla marines.
> >If you need lascannons, then take shooty Tac squads and put them in
> >those. Much greater life expectancy and 20 points cheaper.
>
<snip>
>> The extra
> >> marines are cannonfodder and defence against fast flankers, but I
> >> guess 5 might be too expensive for the benefit.
>
> Well, at 4 Heavy Weapons, 3 extras would be the minimum.
Ask Pat about having extra devs in my ML squad when using Dark Reapers
:-)
Marshall Dragoo
RGMW regular