Depressed about Rivers and Rifle Pits
Jon Todd
Any advice for someone with a flat earth 6'4" table who can create hills,
woods and buildings just fine but would like to create sensible rivers and
trenches...
My best theory right now is to create banks on a base board (silly ASCII
drawing follows)...
_____ _____
/ \ / \ mounds of mod rok or modelling
clay
/ \ ~~~~~~~/ \ polyfilla or PVA for river/mud
==================== base
Any other bright ideas? I don't have enough storage for a modular terrain
system...
TIA
jon
Jon Todd
Here it is again in glorious black'n'white'8bitOvision...
_____ _____
/ \ / \ mounds of mod rok or clay
/ \ ~~~~~~~/ \ polyfilla or PVA for river/mud
==================== base
jon
"Jon Todd" <j...@centrehalf.com> wrote in message
news:t7tpo2l...@corp.supernews.com...
djcoa...@my-deja.com
Thanks for your help earlier.
Regarding realistic rivers and trenches. This is the really tough one.
Trying to represent a three dimesional shape (river banks, sides, etc)
in two dimensional space (flat table top).
There are several companies that produce very nice flat rivers (with
flat banks). They look very nice upon the table-top and when decently
painted provide the perception of flowing rivers with banks. Logically
we know they are not below the tabletop, but visually they look lower.
Your suggestion of raised banks (levees) would work in many modern
instances. Here in the PNW we have a lot of raised bank rivers to
control flooding.
If you solve this problem without using some modular terrain to
simulate the sloping down river bank, let me know. I'm just as
interested as you are.
Thanks
NJH
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Tom Culpepper
to them. I can explain it better if you want.
Jon Todd
styrofoam terrain but
1) The wife wouldn't like it ..
2) Real estate is too expensive in the UK
3) see 1)
j:)n
"Tom Culpepper" <gte...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote in message
news:95n6mi$2j6$1...@news-int.gatech.edu...
Jon Todd
also, can any ACW buffs let me know what they think of raised river banks?
Cheers
jon
<djcoa...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:95n298$evq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Patrick R. Collins
Most rivers that appear in the ACW don't have raised banks per se, but
rather, the river is significantly below ground level. So, your field
would need to be off the table a few inches, while the river was at table
level.
To be precise, some 6 to 20 scale feet will do for most rivers, more for
the bluff areas of larger rivers, less for the smaller ones, or normal
areas.
Martin Rapier
<t7tpo2l...@corp.supernews.com>...
> Guys
>
> Any advice for someone with a flat earth 6'4" table who can create hills,
> woods and buildings just fine but would like to create sensible rivers
and
> trenches...
>
> My best theory right now is to create banks on a base board (silly ASCII
> drawing follows)...
Yes that would work fine, raised edges work fine for trenches etc as well.
My slit trench terrain pieces are just card with edges raised with some
polyfiller & suitably flocked. I painted the inside of the trenches really
dark (black at the bottom) which gives a reasonable impression of depth on
the table. OTOH my latest lot of WW1 trenches are just thick card with
crenellations drawn on in black marker pen, again with a bit of flock on
they look fine. I couldn't be bothered to polyfiller 16' of cardboard....
Cheers
Martin.
Martin Rapier
<eRHqmHABL9f6Ewan@l-
{snip}
> >they look fine. I couldn't be bothered to polyfiller 16' of
cardboard....
> ... although there are people happy to play in any game you put on,
> there are few/none interested in helping make terrain.
Mmm, I would more put it down to lack of any delegation skills - I prefer
to have and do everything myself (so all the relevant armies, all the
terrain etc).
The latest set of WW1 rules were a bit of an experiment so it wasn't worth
spending loads of time on supporting terrain e.g. the pillboxes are just
hexagonal bits of 10mm photo mounting board painted grey. Very useful stuff
for making ruins as well - just a few building corners on a base and
suitably plastered with sand & grit 'rubble'.
Generally my handy dandy 'terrain bag' has everything I need in it - the
ubiquitous brown cloth, bits of green/brown/sand/blue felt in various
shapes, masking tape, chalk, thick card 'hills' to go under the cloth plus
a box load of buildings, trees, hedges, walls, barbed wire, trenches etc. I
could have done masking tape trenches, but I thought I'd spend at least
ooooh, half an hour on them instead.
Cheers
Martin.
Andy O'Neill
writes
>When I used single figures, I used to make trenches like Martin does -
>except my favourite method was to use styrofoam, suitably sloped and
>with the opening and dark painted cardboard at the bottom. Now that
>I'm using based figures, I haven't found a suitable (to my mind) method
>of entrenching 1.5" square stands...
Skytrex do some 20mil ww2 which are figures in slit trenches.
Once I paint the umpteen ww2 figures I've already got lined up, I may
buy some of these...
Andy O'Neill
www.l-25.demon.co.uk/index.htm
Liverpool Wargames Association
www.l-25.demon.co.uk/LWA.htm
marsha...@my-deja.com
to show dug in troops. Andy's suggestion was one of them. Since I use
P L A S T I C F A N T A S T I C, it would be a breeze for me to do
this, and perhaps I should. The only problem for me is that, apart
from the extra work which Andy points out it would be, you don't get to
mentally record heroic actions of particular figures/stands in a
defence scenario! 8) I mean, who doesn't have a favourite bazooka guy
who always hits and always gets the lucky roll to kill a Tiger or
something? Or the total idiot figure you've spent hours on painting
and making his stand and crew into a neat little 1 inch square diorama
who gets killed or suppressed 2 minutes into the game?
I eventually want to craft some kind of styrofoam based chunk that
vaguely looks like an earthwork which I can place in front of my
entrenched stands...
In article <fdVqFDA2...@l-25.demon.co.uk>,
Andy O'Neill <An...@l-25.dont-spam-me.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Skytrex do some 20mil ww2 which are figures in slit trenches.
--
Tim Marshall - http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~tmarshal/
^o<
/#) "Burp-beep, burp-beep, burp-beep?" - Quaker Jake
/^^
David Ratcliffe
The credit card is always faster than the paintbrush.
David
Andy O'Neill
writes
>I mean, who doesn't have a favourite bazooka guy
>who always hits and always gets the lucky roll to kill a Tiger or
>something? Or the total idiot figure you've spent hours on painting
>and making his stand and crew into a neat little 1 inch square diorama
>who gets killed or suppressed 2 minutes into the game?
A standard mechanic in the attack defence games at our club is to map
deploy defenders and only place them once sighted.
Quite often, them guys in the slit trenches are only going to be on
there for a turn or two...
>I eventually want to craft some kind of styrofoam based chunk that
>vaguely looks like an earthwork which I can place in front of my
>entrenched stands...
Polystyrene's maybe a bit light.
I'd think about steel sheet base with something built up. Maybe
sandbags. They're dead easy. Roll sausage of modelling clay out,
flatten, chop off with a blunt-ish sort of knife... build them up in a
row and PVA sprinkled with sand.
If you want to get fancy, you can impress some material on them to give
a texture on larger scale stuff, put a seam in one end and along the
edge with a modelling knife on the odd one or two most noticeable.
Andy O'Neill
<D.F.Ra...@tesco.net> writes
>I just had to say how impressed I am by your discipline!
>The credit card is always faster than the paintbrush.
Ah well....
Any discipline is a recent thing, I suspect easily broken by the
slightest glimpse of a new genre.
Looking carefully past my garage, you can see the light warps slightly.
Flying birds sometimes swerve abruptly towards the heap of lead in
there....
jfba...@qwest.net
tables covered with wool blankets. We use soft foam for
hills, banks, ridges, etc. This cuts very easily with an
electric carving knife, allowing you to be very creative.
Especially if your knife is one that cuts on the tip as well
as along the edge. A little spray painting and you are set.
Strips of blue or brown (muddy) flannel do for the rivers
themselves, grey or brown (paved or not) flannel for roads.
You can get tons of this cheap at the fabric store and cut
it into strips and other odd shapes (ponds, lakes, etc.).
You can also curve it around and use straight pins or scotch
tape to hold it in place, if necessary. The wool and
flannel do a pretty good job sticking together. If you get
2 shades of each color, it gives you more leeway when
designing your scenarios (dark brown for dirt roads, light
brown for a muddy river, blue for a shallow creek,
whatever). Strips laid side by side will do for plowed
fields, swamps, etc.
Trees can be purchased at your local hobby store (train
stuff) or made up from twigs and lichen.
The "modules" are easily thrown into a couple of boxes when
not in use, the blankets and tables fold away.These are also
easier to pack to game fairs if you are into GM'ing at
those.
Blue blankets to replace the brown/green makes a nice
seascape for naval actions, and the hills do double duty as
islands, with the flannel representing rocks and shoals. If
you have the space, tossing the blankets on the floor (and
more blankets) is better for naval operations. You can also
use a blue tarp for this, but blankets don't slide around or
ball up as much.
OD (olive drab) blankets are available at most military
surplus stores, and sometimes dark blue (OLD Navy), or grey
(Navy or Air Force) ones as well. The grey will do for a
sea, just make sure your flannel is a different shade. For
blue also check with your local poilce and ambulance
services for names of their suppliers. They carry blankets
on board, and they have to buy them somewhere. :)
For some scenarios we use sections of 'N' gauge train tracks
for RR's (for 15 & 20mm). You don't need much. Cut up
tooth picks or small wood strips glued togehter and painted
make nice RR's for 1/285, and fences for larger scales.
Strips of foam or balled up newspaper under the blankets
make nice ridges or embankments. Painted chunks of
stryofoam make good cliffs, rocks, walls, forts, and stone
fences. If you plan it right a fortress wall for 15-20mm
can double as a cliff in a smaller scale. Be creative. :)
Oh yes, we operate in 15mm ACW, and 20mm WWII for small unit
actions, 1/285 WWII for larger. Our naval scales are 1/2400
for modern, and 1/1200 for sail. That's the scale of the
ships, naval actions are actually fought in 1/7200 and
1/3600 (or smaller, depends on space), respectively. This
lets you put the ships 'nose to tail' while still allowing
for normal ship spacing in line ahead, and it takes up less
room. WWII battleships can range out to 50+ feet at a
1/2400 scale, I don't have a gymnasium, wish I did. :))
We generally use 2-3 2'x6' tables side by side. Two
blankets should cover this easily. As long as the tables
are all the same length and height, it really doesn't
matter, but stretching further than 3' to reach the center
is a little tough on my old bones and sinews. 8' edge to
edge is about the max limit for me. :))
--
thx
john :)
"You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever
count on having both at once." R.A.H.