Painting
mark sanders
Question: On 15mm how do you paint the faces to get any detail level.
I have tried using a 10/0 brush but it is still too large for say eyes,
mustache, beards, etc. Any help would be appreciated.
thanks,
mark
Tom Faulkner
Use an ink wash for the eyes and to define the nose and other facial
features (highlight the latter if you wish). [I love Paynes Gray pigmented
ink for my washes.] To get a sharp point on your ten-ought try cleaning the
brush in water or mild soapy water, then put a drop of the soap (I use a
diluted solution) on the brush to moisten the bristles sufficiently to shape
into a point, flat surface, etc. depending on the brush. The mustaches and
beards shouldn't present a problem unless the castings' surfaces are not
generous. What company's castings do you use??
Hope this helps.
--
TTFN/HL
Tom Faulkner
Alexandria, VA
mark sanders wrote in message <353C2A...@mail.netusa1.net>...
S.R. Gist
mark sanders wrote in message <353C2A...@mail.netusa1.net>...
>Question: On 15mm how do you paint the faces to get any detail level.
>I have tried using a 10/0 brush but it is still too large for say eyes,
>mustache, beards, etc. Any help would be appreciated.
>thanks,
>mark
Mark,
First of all, it is very important to look at the quality of the
figures you start with. I look for a figure that has space for the eyes
under the kepi/shako. Also, it is much easier to paint that level of detail
on the troops that are closer to 18mm than the true 15mm's.
Now, to the actual painting... This is what I do. After base coating
with acrylics, I put a medium oil wash with burnt sienna on the face and
allow to fully dry. I find this sinks into the crevices of the face much
better than acrylics. Next, I use a 20/0 brush (really small) and dot black
in the center of the orb where the eye should be. Sometimes this requires a
painter to dot the black not exactly in the center of where the eye is cast
on the figure. After this, use the 20/0 and dot white to the left and right
of the black dot in the eye. Make sure the white dots touch the black so
that the black is partially obscured. And above all, remember to only use a
miniscule amount of paint on the brush each time. Finally, as you are
dotting the white remember to make sure the eye is made level with the face.
This is not that hard if you have asteady hand, good lighting, and
patience/practice. Try experimenting and you'll see that it works.
Anybody else have ideas?
SRG
Dougmander
mark sanders wrote:
> Question: On 15mm how do you paint the faces to get any detail level.
> I have tried using a 10/0 brush but it is still too large for say eyes,
> mustache, beards, etc. Any help would be appreciated.
> thanks,
> mark
> To paint eyes:
1. After painting the face with flesh tone, paint the entire eye area
white, a slightly larger area than the actual eyeball. Don't worry about
overpainting the surrounding area. You'll fix it later.
2. To paint the pupil, make a vertical slash across the center of each eye
with a 10/0 brush. (I find this easier than trying to paint a dot). Once
again, don't worry about making the slash longer than the actual eye area.
3. With horizontal strokes of flesh tone, reduce the white area until only
the eyes themselves remain white, with the black slashes obscured except
for a small tick or dot in the center of the whites.
If you really want to get fancy, you can use a slightly darker fleshtone
for the lower lids, to enhance the shadow effect.
This method eliminates the "pop-eyed" look that can result from painting
eyes as dots. The idea is to make the shape of the eyes by actually
shaping the eyelids, not the eyeball. After all, that's what gives real
eyes their shape and individual character!
My only advice for beards and moustaches is to keep the tonal value pretty
close to the tonal value of the skin. Beards that are too dark tend to
look like they are painted on, rather than an integral part of the figure.
I think it's because even a thick beard shows some of the tone of the skin
underneath.
For lips, just take the flesh tone and make it a little darker for the
upper lip, and a little lighter for the lower lip. Once again, keeping
control of the tonal value is important, if you want to avoid "lipstick"
lips.
Doug
Andy Kern
mark sanders wrote:
> Question: On 15mm how do you paint the faces to get any detail level.
> I have tried using a 10/0 brush but it is still too large for say eyes,
> mustache, beards, etc. Any help would be appreciated.
> thanks,
> mark
Don't bother! Faces at 15mm level, unless you are entering them for a
painting competition, should be viewed at arms length! I paint my 15mm
faces with a flesh tone, put a small blob of chestnut brown in the eye
sockets, small lines of the same down either side of the nose, in the ear
area and where the mouth is and then dry brush with white over the whole
figure. This looks absolutely fine at this scale when viewed at normal
"table" distances. IMO, it is the look of the army on the table that is
important at this scale, not the detail on individual figures!
If you insist on detailing, use a size 1, needlepoint, sable brush.
Provided you have chosen one with a good point, you will never need to use
anything smaller.If you have an art shop near you, see if they can get hold
of Whistler Needlepoint brushes. They are excellent!
--
"Excrementum Tauri Eludat Cerebra"
Andy Kern
Ray Rangel
>Question: On 15mm how do you paint the faces to get any detail level.
>I have tried using a 10/0 brush but it is still too large for say eyes,
>mustache, beards, etc. Any help would be appreciated.
>thanks,
>mark
Before you drive youself nuts or start needing glasses try this...
Take a figure in your hand so that it is standing between your thumb
and forefinger. Now remover the figure holding your fingers in
position. Extend your arm and look dwon your arm and through you
fingers. Hold you fingers so that they frame some one in the distance
as if you holding them like the figure....
...now tell me how much detail do you see. Do you see eyeballs? do you
details other than large areas of color? can you make out the face at
all?...
There is something called scale effect though, so we paint in shadows,
but little more than that is simply wasted effort.
Dan Dionne
Andy Kern wrote:
>
> mark sanders wrote:
>
> > Question: On 15mm how do you paint the faces to get any detail level.
> > I have tried using a 10/0 brush but it is still too large for say eyes,
> > mustache, beards, etc. Any help would be appreciated.
> > thanks,
> > mark
>
> painting competition, should be viewed at arms length!
Agree and disagree. Forget about eyes entirely for 15mm. Beards and
mustaches, however, are very doable. I use a 3/0 brush, dipped lightly
in paint, and use one stroke for a each half-face, plus one small stroke
for a mustache if required. Keeping the brush very clean helps a lot.
About brush sizes: The shape of the brush is far more important for
detail work than the size. The key is having a clean brush that comes to
a sharp point.
--Dan Dionne, ddi...@us.ibm.com
David KUIJT
On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Dan Dionne wrote:
> Andy Kern wrote:
> > mark sanders wrote:
> > > Question: On 15mm how do you paint the faces to get any detail level.
> > > I have tried using a 10/0 brush but it is still too large for say eyes,
> > > mustache, beards, etc. Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > Don't bother! Faces at 15mm level, unless you are entering them for a
> > painting competition, should be viewed at arms length!
>
> Agree and disagree. Forget about eyes entirely for 15mm. Beards and
> mustaches, however, are very doable. I use a 3/0 brush, dipped lightly
> in paint, and use one stroke for a each half-face, plus one small stroke
> for a mustache if required. Keeping the brush very clean helps a lot.
I paint eyes and eyebrows (and buttons, if they are largish ones) in 15mm.
I use a 10/0 brush and a steady hand (bracing the one holding the
miniature). The shape of the brush is important, and as Dan says, you
need a clean brush lightly dipped to do details.
For the eyes/eyebrows I use dark brown or black and make a T shape -- one
upstroke for the eye, making sure not to go too low on the face but not
worrying too much about the top end, then a bar across the top of it to
make the eyebrow (and clean up the ragged top of the eye stroke). Takes
only a few seconds.
It takes me about 30-45 minutes to finish a figure (Medievals -- no
uniforms; usually 6-8 colours per figure not counting washes and
drybrushing if any). Less if it has a lot of metal armour (which goes
really fast); more if it has a lot of detailed heraldry.
David Kuijt
jfbe...@execpc.com
In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.98042...@bragi.umiacs.umd.edu>,
David KUIJT <ku...@umiacs.umd.edu> wrote:
Less if it has a lot of metal armour (which goes
> really fast)
I was wondering which means people use to paint metal armor. I use a mix of
Humbro steel with either a blue or black, then lightly polished when dry. I
got it from Verlinden's book on figure painting. Also besides a steady
hand, how does everyone paint heraldry. I end up using some of my old model
divisional symbols (especially German).
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Glynn & Kathy Greenwood
In article <353d32fa...@news.texas.net>,
Ray Rangel <xr...@texas.net> wrote:
> Before you drive youself nuts or start needing glasses try this...
> Take a figure in your hand so that it is standing between your thumb
> and forefinger. Now remover the figure holding your fingers in
> position. Extend your arm and look dwon your arm and through you
> fingers. Hold you fingers so that they frame some one in the distance
> as if you holding them like the figure....
> ...now tell me how much detail do you see. Do you see eyeballs? do you
> details other than large areas of color? can you make out the face at
> all?...
> There is something called scale effect though, so we paint in shadows,
> but little more than that is simply wasted effort.
It depends on how much effort you wish to give why not just dip the model
in a single pot "its not much more than a large area of colour!"
--
_____ _ _
| ____| | |_ ___ _ __
| _| | | __/ _ \| '_ \
| |___| | || (_) | | | |
|_____|_|\__\___/|_| |_|
Steve H.
Dan Dionne wrote:
>
> Andy Kern wrote:
> >
> > mark sanders wrote:
> >
> > > Question: On 15mm how do you paint the faces to get any detail level.
> > > I have tried using a 10/0 brush but it is still too large for say eyes,
> > > mustache, beards, etc. Any help would be appreciated.
> > > mark
> >
> > Don't bother! Faces at 15mm level, unless you are entering them for a
> > painting competition, should be viewed at arms length!
>
> Agree and disagree. Forget about eyes entirely for 15mm. Beards and
> mustaches, however, are very doable. I use a 3/0 brush, dipped lightly
> in paint, and use one stroke for a each half-face, plus one small stroke
> for a mustache if required. Keeping the brush very clean helps a lot.
>
> detail work than the size. The key is having a clean brush that comes to
> a sharp point.
>
> --Dan Dionne, ddi...@us.ibm.com
I'd agree with all that, with just this extra addition to the
information given - in the last couple of years I've discovered the
Citadel washes (yeah.. I know everyone else knew!) Now, for 15mm I do
the normal flesh colour for the face and then give it a liberal wash
over with undiluted Citadel "Flesh Wash".. its a brownish wash, and
dries dark in the hollows of the eyes, ears, mouths etc. and gives me
the appearance I'm happy with. Before I was just used the paint without
the wash, and drybrushed white - they look much better the new way!
Steve H.
--
(spam proofing: remove the *'s in the id. above when replying by email)
Steve H.
jfbe...@execpc.com wrote:
>
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.98042...@bragi.umiacs.umd.edu>,
> David KUIJT <ku...@umiacs.umd.edu> wrote:
> Less if it has a lot of metal armour (which goes
> > really fast)
>
> I was wondering which means people use to paint metal armor. I use a mix of
> Humbro steel with either a blue or black, then lightly polished when dry.
For armour, I use Citadel "Bolt Gun Metal" (?? name) basically a gun
metal colour, ie. metallic but dark gray, then black wash, and finally
dry brush silver...
David KUIJT
On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 jfbe...@execpc.com wrote:
> I was wondering which means people use to paint metal armor. I use a mix of
> Humbro steel with either a blue or black, then lightly polished when dry. I
> got it from Verlinden's book on figure painting.
I use the following technique for acrylics (which I got from someone else
on the net):
1) Don't prime the figure. Clean it, but don't prime.
2) Apply a wash of Liquitex Payne's Grey (a dark blue/black grey) to the
fig (adding a tiny bit of dish soap to decrease surface tension -- a good
step with using any wash on water-based paint)
Finished. You can polish a bit if you like to get a bit more highlights.
I've also expanded this technique for fantasy and SF figures where I want
golden metal, bluish metal, red/pink metal: just choose a very dark
version of the shade desired and use the wash technique above.
Finally, for some figures who have a helmet and little or no other metal
armour (especially footmen with bascinets, sallets, and kettle helms from
the 15th century) I prime the figure, then file the paint off carefully on
the helmet. This works especially well if the helmet is a bit oversized
anyway. You get a really shiny metal helmet, and the rest of the figure
is primed (and so the paint will stick).
I've used the same scrape-down-to-base-metal technique as an easy way to
add a precise metal rim to a shield or edge of a wagon-wheel. With a
dental tool it is possible to scrape the rivet-heads on a figure with
brigandine armour so they are unpainted and shine. Works pretty quickly,
even on 15mm figures.
Of course, I'm not sure how important it is to have shiny rivets on the
brigandine armour of a 15mm figure, but there you are...
David Kuijt
Ray Rangel
>In article <353d32fa...@news.texas.net>,
> Ray Rangel <xr...@texas.net> wrote:
>
>> Before you drive youself nuts or start needing glasses try this...
>
>> Take a figure in your hand so that it is standing between your thumb
>> and forefinger. Now remover the figure holding your fingers in
>> position. Extend your arm and look dwon your arm and through you
>> fingers. Hold you fingers so that they frame some one in the distance
>> as if you holding them like the figure....
>
>> ...now tell me how much detail do you see. Do you see eyeballs? do you
>> details other than large areas of color? can you make out the face at
>> all?...
>
>> There is something called scale effect though, so we paint in shadows,
>> but little more than that is simply wasted effort.
>It depends on how much effort you wish to give why not just dip the model
>in a single pot "its not much more than a large area of colour!"
>
To clarify: There is a phenomena known as "scale effect". In short,
this is the effect that light has on a model and the tricks that the
brain plays when viewing a scale model.
The effect (or lack thereof) that light has when striking a model
forces us to paint in shadows as the depth of crevasses are too
shallow to make natural shadows. To this end we make use of washes,
inking, black-lining, black prime, and other tricks to fool the eyes
into thinking they are looking at something much larger yet very far
away. At normal viewing distances small detail becomes
indistinguishable; if added it is only for close inspection of
individual figures and impressing others with the painter's digital
dexterity.
Another aspect of scale effect is that models that are painted too
perfectly, or too brightly don't look right at a normal viewing
distance. The brain is mightily confused by mixed signals. The brain
knows that it is looking at something that appears to be at some
distance but it is in too sharp a focus. One of tricks of the trade
used to remedy this is to wash the entire figure with black or dark
gray. If one looks at people in the distance they appear as very dark
shapes if they are wearing anything but white and shadows turn from
darkened colors to black. My Napoleonics and British Colonials are
washed thusly. They are *very* dark. The effect, though, at a viewing
distance of a yard are extremely realistic. However my DBA armies are
painted with much more color, detail, and less contrast as the viewing
distance is only half a yard. My LPE armies are somewhere in between.
To wrap this up (did I hear my fellow club members sigh with relief?),
my position is that a one-size-fits-all painting style is not
appropriate in 15mm (or any scale). Normal viewing distance, size of
the game table, and number of figures on the table all should have an
effect on the methods used to paint castings for an army. However, in
no case would I even consider painting eyes, lips, or fingernails as
on a figure viewed from more than a couple of inches these are lost
and contribute nothing to the look of the fielded army or game play.
Frankly, I would rather invest the time that would be wasted painting
invisible, inconsequential details fielding more armies and playing
more games.
>
Glynn & Kathy Greenwood
it all depends on the priming if the model has a lot of metal it should be
primed black and if it has a lot of cloth/flesh it should be primed white.
Steve Miller
A Primer on Primers:
I agree with the post to a point. Don't waste your time with black primer.
Prime in white and just paint the stuff you want (chain mail, plate
armor...you get the drift?) black and drybrush it. You'll like the results
and the figures are brighter...you don't have to paint sixteen shades of
red to get it to look red over black primer! :<))
Steve M.
Glynn & Kathy Greenwood <gw...@argonet.co.uk> wrote in article
<483bbaf...@argonet.co.uk>...
OutlandOH
In article <353d32fa...@news.texas.net>, xr...@texas.net (Ray Rangel)
writes:
>>Question: On 15mm how do you paint the faces to get any detail level.
>>I have tried using a 10/0 brush but it is still too large for say eyes,
>>mustache, beards, etc. Any help would be appreciated.
>>thanks,
>>mark
>
>Before you drive youself nuts or start needing glasses try this...
>
>Take a figure in your hand so that it is standing between your thumb
>and forefinger. Now remover the figure holding your fingers in
>position. Extend your arm and look dwon your arm and through you
>fingers. Hold you fingers so that they frame some one in the distance
>as if you holding them like the figure....
>
>...now tell me how much detail do you see. Do you see eyeballs? do you
>details other than large areas of color? can you make out the face at
>all?...
>
>There is something called scale effect though, so we paint in shadows,
>but little more than that is simply wasted effort.
>
>-
I must agree here. 15mm figures represent humans/animals that we see at a
distance. If you are on a large sports field, how much detail do you see when
you look across the field? I paint my "tabletop" quality figures to look like
this. Chris von Fahnestock
Bill Armintrout
Is primer necessary with pewter figures? I noticed that Nigel
Stillman's article in WD 220 suggested painting on bare metal for
certain effects.
Matt Denny
I've found that primer is only necessary when I want the paint to stick for
extended periods of time. But that's just me.
And no cracks, Flynn, about "when was the last time you painted?"...
Bill Armintrout wrote in message
<35462a72...@client.se.news.psi.net>...
Steve Miller
I don't take chances with the dreaded Lead Rot...I use acrylics so rust is
a concern.
Prime the figures.
Steve M.
Matt Denny <mde...@bigsky.net> wrote in article
<35466...@news.bigsky.net>...
Glynn & Kathy Greenwood
In article <35462a72...@client.se.news.psi.net>,
Bill Armintrout <barmi...@psygnosis.com> wrote:
> Is primer necessary with pewter figures? I noticed that Nigel
> Stillman's article in WD 220 suggested painting on bare metal for
> certain effects.
knows the sickly thin games workshop stuff needs all the help it can get!)
it also improves colour and light refraction in bright coloured paint jobs
but don't get caught up buying "super model primer" or other such nonsense
medium quality white, black and grey matt/flat auto paint will do just as
well
use them like this
White = bright models with very little metal armour showing
Black = dark models or models with lots of exposed metal armour
Grey = short cut to large areas of grey greatcoats for example
(note for americans dont use "krylon" paints for this its is too bitty and
flakey to be of much use)
--
Rage agianst the dieing of the light
Elton (uk)
Jeff Hancock
I must respectfully disagree with my fellow gamer on this note!
I have used Krylon "Sandable Primer" exclusively for 15mm figures with
no flaking and no loss of detail. However, my experience with "auto
primer" has resulted in prolonged drying times and loss of detail.
Krylon uses particles that I've found to be as fine as any spray primer
from Floquil or The Armory. Look for Krylon "sandable" primer, not
"auto" primer and use multiple light coats to achieve good coverage.
Glynn & Kathy Greenwood <gw...@argonet.co.uk> writes: > In article <35462a72...@client.se.news.psi.net>,