Emperor's Headquarters Online?
Bitter
miniatures range. How about an electronic copy? Thanks in advance....
--
Mark Cuomo
Tklytle
website at http://www.ab-figures.demon.co.uk/index.htm
Be warned, they are nice, but they are pricey!
Tom
Blaze
what they said there were no plans to create one.
blaze
Blaze
web page. Don't know about any recent developments. Last I heard, there
wasn't any plans.
blaze
Blaze
Nathan Mitchell
happen:
1) More consumers and retailers get on the net
2) Public perceives transmission of credit card info via the net is secure.
We all know gamers and stores that don't do the internet. EHQ is an example
of a store that does not have an internet presence.
Ed Lizak wrote:
> I'm curious. Does EHQ make money or are they someone's expensive
> hobby? It seems to me that the only long-term plan for success in our
> hobby would have to include the Internet as a sales tool. I'm not
> trying to be critical of EHQ. It's their decision one way or another
> but it does bring up a topic I've discussed before with some friends
> and I'm curious of others opinions.
>
> When you compare the number of true retail stores that are started and
> the number that fail, it doesn't seem there is a lot of money to be
> made when operating as a real business. Sure, some people can be
> moderately successful operating as a side job but it seems few can
> make serious money as just retailers.
>
> Am I wrong? What do the rest of you think about the retail potential
> of our hobby and can someone be successful without mail
> order/Internet?
>
> -EJL
Ed Lizak
RMCaras
>hobby?
I think its Todd Fisher's hobby. Last i heard, EHQ the building was for sale,
the product stock depleted. EHQ at the cons has just been bringing their
books, publications etc. Todd still has the Emporer's Press and AB Miniatures,
but barely reps the AB minis (there weren't any at Fall In). AB is produced for
EHQ by Old Glory, but they want to concentrate on their 25mm product lines and
AB will have a difficulty finding casting time. In fact Old Glory has sold off
their 15mm product line (except WWII Command Decision line) to Battle Honors
USA/19th Century Miniatures. They do have a web site, but just received the
thousands of Old Glory molds/stock etc so it hasn't hit their web site yet.
Anyway, I doubt you'll see much sale from EHQ in the future, internet or
otherwise.
Too bad.
Rick Caras
Aaron Liebling
intended). Many of us (probably not a majority of gamers, but still a
good number) do almost all our buying over the net. Talk to a company
like Silver eagle Wargaming Supplies and they'll tell you that they get
lots of business from the net that they would never get otherwise.
CC#'s over the net isn't a problem, as it's mainly the catelogues that
are online, not the actual ordering. Mostly (for mini companies, at
least) you still call either to confirm the order with your cc number or
to make the whole order.
I also concur that, barring a great location with lots of local gamers,
a gaming mail order company is going to operate at a serious
disadvantage without an online precnse (at least a catelogue).
Best,
Aaron
Justin Taylor
proportion of sales over the internet. Look at Amazon.com - how much money
do they make?
Steve H.
Steve H.
Aaron Liebling
wrong! I suppose the shops that do have online catelogues or the like
get the attention here, but since the vast majority of wargamers don't
read this newsgroup (probably because they have something better to do
with their time ;-)), it doesn't really make much of an impact. Here's
to hoping that changes one day, as it is a much more convenient way to
shop.
Best,
Aaron
Mark Levine
Actually, I agree with your point. I think that most esoteric wargaming
and modeling products will be sold in the US via the internet in the
future. The only real shops that will be able to make it without an
online/mailorder presence are those that stock a wide variety of "hobby"
products including RC cars, model railroads, etc. and which rely on young
kids and gift shoppers and the once in a while serious hobbyist visitor
looking for paint or glue. Hobbytowns, or Beatties, for example. In the UK
there don't seem to be any more gaming shops than there are in the US,
it's just that there seem to be so many more shows and fewer people on
line so that most of the business is done at the shows/conventions rather
than online.
Mark
In article <36C99E04...@addesigninc.com>, Aaron Liebling
<aa...@addesigninc.com> wrote:
>Oh well, consensus goes against me then! No worries, never bad to be
>wrong! I suppose the shops that do have online catelogues or the like
>get the attention here, but since the vast majority of wargamers don't
>read this newsgroup (probably because they have something better to do
>with their time ;-)), it doesn't really make much of an impact. Here's
>to hoping that changes one day, as it is a much more convenient way to
>shop.
>
>Best,
>Aaron
--
"Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense." --Sir Winston Spencer Churchill
Ray Rangel
On line presence *may* include retail sales, but *must* include catalogs,
mail order instructions, distributors, retail outlets, etc.
But I think the most important thing is having a good on-line catalog. One
of the things that hurts our hobby is the very thing that also makes it
strong. That is that most of the mini producers are also hobbyists and run
also their businesses as a "hobby". For one standpoint this is a great
thing; it keeps the mini producer in close touch with the market. He tends
to produce what the market demands instead of producing and then demanding a
market. The down side is that as marketeers they are rank amateurs. So their
business is always verging on the edge of an economic black hole. Now, how
does this relate to the internet? Well...
They need to realize that what people want is to SEE the miniatures before
they buy them. With so many good on-line catalogs available (e.g. GHQ and
Ral Partha to name just two of many). Gone are the days when people would
wait for a sample to show up in the mailbox. Now, people want to dial into
their ISP and few seconds later be looking at the miniatures they intend to
purchase. They may order over the phone, on-line, or choose to support their
local retailer and order through them. But regardless of the way the sale
takes place, IT TAKES PLACE.
One of the misconceptions that these companies have is that they will not
reach the market because enough people are not on the net. Balderdash! Old
Glory is not on the net (yes, I know about Grandiosity!) What really happens
is that at stores and club meetings around the world those that are not
connected are bombarded with industry news and printouts of the latest
figure's JPG. Those that are connected are constantly bombarded by requests
for information from those who are not. Thus, a huge amount of CHEAP
advertising is simply being ignored by companies that refuse to get
connected. While the DIRECT net sales may be small, the fallout of the
exposure is really where the sales are. The companies, who heads are in the
sand, can't (or sometimes won't) see this because there is now way for them
to directly track a sale to internet exposure.
I don't know how much money I have spent at Brookhurst of the years. Every
business trip I take out to California makes them several hundred dollars. I
also found out about other shops in the area through Brookhurst who *also*
get wads of cash when I'm out there. What's more I print out the Brookhurst
catalogs and take them to club meeting before I take a trip and take orders!
All because I found Brookhurst on the net. I have *never* ordered from
Brookhurst via the net, but the net is directly responsible for over a
thousand dollars in sales from me alone. I don't know how many people have
ordered via telephone after borrowing my Brookhurst catalogs. The War House
in CA also has gotten as much from me. While they don't have a net presence,
I found them by talking to people I met at Brookhurst. Fallout. Ripple
effect.
Just the other day a friend come to me and asks whether I know of any shops
in the Atlanta area. As luck would have it, I had visited the site of the
War Room in Norcross. Guess where he went...
Another misconception is that these companies must make a large investment
in web site programming or hire a highly paid consultant. Buuuuzzzzzzz!
Wrong answer. A simple site that displays pictures of their products with
telephone ordering instructions Or part numbers so that they can be ordered
through a local retailer is all that is required. This is well within the
ability of any high-school student who wants to trade a couple hours a month
for a few figures!
These companies that refuse to engage in the "new fangled internet" are
simply hiding their heads in the sand. It won't take long when they look up
only to find their customers have moved on to suppliers that have provided
service to their markets in a timely manner.
I can only grin when I hear of a retailer or manufacturer saying what a low
percentage of their sales are internet generated. They really have no idea
of power and reach of this beast.
Back to the question at hand. I think all this talk of secure credit card
sales, Java enabled catalogs, CGI forms programming, etc. scares the hell of
the poor shoestring operations.
I (and I dare say many others) say, "The Hell with all that crap!" "All I
want is to SEE before I buy!. Just post some pictures of your stuff and tell
me who I have to call to get it!"
Nathan Mitchell <mnem...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:36C8F195...@earthlink.net...
>I think on line retailing will operate under a handicap until these things
>happen:
>
>1) More consumers and retailers get on the net
>
>2) Public perceives transmission of credit card info via the net is secure.
>
>We all know gamers and stores that don't do the internet. EHQ is an example
>of a store that does not have an internet presence.
>
WARGAMING
store Men At Arms which is not a hobby... it is now my primary source of
income. Soon we will have a website which will be informational at first. It is
there to support our retail store which opened in Oct 98. At some point in the
future web sales and tx/mail order will probably be undertaken. The Last Square
currently has these purchasing options available as does others... The critical
issue is that to handle sales via web/tx/mail you have to be 10 to 15 deep on
items instead of two or three deep. (If you can't fill orders that reputation
will quickly haunt you.) In addition, many of the distributers are selling the
same products using one of the direct sales approaches... which means
distrbuters are competing with the retailers they supply. Who has the upper
hand here?! All of the direct approaches are okay if you don't want to see what
you are buying, what else is new, compare, wander and chat with others who have
a similiar interest, or if you are in a remote area. Please continue your
qustioning and comments since they help to educate everyne about what is what.
Bill Krieg, MAA
Ed Lizak
disadvantages compared to in-store purchases. The problem is most of
us are seeing the local stores going out of business or never had one
to start with. The amount of overhead in a retail outlet compared to
an Internet shop is just so much higher. I tend to think the main
reason more speciality stores don't look to the Internet as a sales
tool is a lack of familiarity with the Internet or a level of
intimidation with something they don't understand.
His points are valid today but what I'm talking about is long term.
Think back 3 years. How much did you use the Internet? (probably not
much) Think of how far you and the Internet have come in 3 years.
Now think how many more people will have moved to the same level of
familiarity with the Internet in the next 3 years. Studies show an
increasing number of households are getting computers, people are
buying more stuff on the Internet. Is this a trend that will stop? I
think people will be spending a lot of money over the Internet in the
next 5 years. It will never replace the touch and feel of a local
store but how many local stores can stay in business selling only to
the local gamers?
Regarding CC over the Internet:
The general public is so worried about buying online but think nothing
of giving their CC to a waiter and watching it disappear into the back
of the restaraunt or giving it to the kid at the local convience
store. (They'll come around, too many big companies are putting too
much money into the Internet for them to let the public remain this
ignorant). Where they really should worry is the security of the
place where they buy stuff. A hacker is not going to steal one person
cc# during an unsecure transaction, he going to get into the company's
database and steal 10,000 numbers at once.
Sorry for being so long winded and opinionated but hey - that's me
-EJL
On Tue, 16 Feb 1999 13:20:18 +0000, "Steve H."
<stevej_hicks@uk.***ibm.com> wrote:
>Not in the UK it hasn't...
>
>Steve H.
>
>Aaron Liebling wrote:
>
>> Nathan, I think the day has come and you have missed it (no offense
>> intended). Many of us (probably not a majority of gamers, but still a
>> good number) do almost all our buying over the net. Talk to a company
>> like Silver eagle Wargaming Supplies and they'll tell you that they get
>> lots of business from the net that they would never get otherwise.
>>
>> CC#'s over the net isn't a problem, as it's mainly the catelogues that
>> are online, not the actual ordering. Mostly (for mini companies, at
>> least) you still call either to confirm the order with your cc number or
>> to make the whole order.
>>
>> I also concur that, barring a great location with lots of local gamers,
>> a gaming mail order company is going to operate at a serious
>> disadvantage without an online precnse (at least a catelogue).
>>
>> Best,
>> Aaron
>>
>> Nathan Mitchell wrote:
>> >
Steve H.
For the UK, the vast majority of wargamers don't even use the net... cost of
calls is a bit of a killer here!
Steve H.
Aaron Liebling wrote:
> Oh well, consensus goes against me then! No worries, never bad to be
> wrong! I suppose the shops that do have online catelogues or the like
> get the attention here, but since the vast majority of wargamers don't
> read this newsgroup (probably because they have something better to do
> with their time ;-)), it doesn't really make much of an impact. Here's
> to hoping that changes one day, as it is a much more convenient way to
> shop.
>
> Best,
> Aaron
>
Jeff Ewing
>
> But I think you are confusing a "net presence" with on-line retail.
>
> On line presence *may* include retail sales, but *must* include catalogs,
> mail order instructions, distributors, retail outlets, etc.
>
> But I think the most important thing is having a good on-line catalog.
Testify, brother Ray! Even a not-very-good picture of minis increases
the chance that I'll buy them.
In fact, whenever I get an order of new minis that don't have a retailer
site with pictures I try and put them up on my site (soon to come:
Irregular's Imperial Chinese and 1895-1905 Japanese, painted Old Glory
Indian Colonial Infantry). I do this by putting the leads on a flatbed
scanner! These cost what, US$200 these days? I'm guessing this would
pay for itself very quickly. And really, there's no cheaper advertizing
available anywhere short of photocopied flyers than a web site. Not
only can any high school kid put a site together, as Ray mentioned, I'm
sure many people on this newsgroup would happily lend assistance to any
producer -- I've seen some darn impressive web authoring at any rate.
So producers and dealers, get wired!
Jeff
Jeff Ewing
They're a net money-loser, actually. I think that fewer people in the
U.K. are
on-line (no hard facts to back this, just impressions from reading the
n.g.) This
may have something to do with the apparently ruinous rates for
connectivity y'all's
telecoms charge.
I'm curious, Justin, how many of your internet sales were from the
U.S./U.K.?
Jeff
Alf
of
calls is a bit of a killer here!
Cant agree with this. Yes the calls are very expensive, but I'm reading and
replying to your post offline. The only reason most uk wargamers aren't
online is cos they're sad gits in anoraks who spend all their money on
figures, rulesets and trading cards.
(Got to go now, my latest order from Adler has arrived, then I've got to put
my errr...coat... on, and go and get another 50 magic:TG booster packs -
bye)
Tim
ps if this is passed on to any non-wargamers I will of course vigourously
deny it!
Baccus6
I run a small miniatures operation, and like many on the fringes of the
wargames world, it is a part time activity, my main income being from a full
time 'proper' job. It is not really worth me offering trade sales to retail
outlets, as they will quite naturally require a discount, after all they need
to make a profit. All that supplying retail outlets results in for me is
working more for less return - my most inelastic resource is time.
This leaves me with the problems of how best to communicate with my customers,
both in the UK and increasingly around the world. At home customers and
potential customers can have the opportunity to get catalogues and view my
figures at various wargames shows, and this has proved to work reasonably well.
Up until about two months ago this was less satisfactory for anyone not
blessed enough to live in the UK.
I have recently launched a web site, and this offers very substantial
advantages to someone in my position.
1) It enables me to offer instant access to a full listing and price list of my
ranges, wherever the customer lives. A huge advantage, as this can also be
updated regularly without resorting to constant print runs of paper catalogues.
2) It gives me a shop window I would otherwise not have.
3) It offers the opportunity to put up pictures of my ranges. This is not
without problems, as my current attempts are a bit fuzzy and the technical
problems of getting good quality pictures of 6mm figures are legion. But it is
a start.
4) It allows me to have a dialogue via email with my customers that would
otherwise be impossible.
5) It offers a medium of exchange via credit card sales that is accessible to
both customer and seller.
As I said, I am only a part timer, but I can see the advantages in getting in
early in what is going to be the dominant force in communications and sales
within the next ten years. Market forces will dictate that telephone charges
for internet use will drop and PC's are now being sold with modems as standard.
By starting now, I can iron out my technical problems early on and have an
established position in the arena when it really begins to catch on.
Any trader who is serious about surviving in a fringe market must be prepared
to extend their net widely, and internet catalogues linked to credit card sales
is the way ahead.
Sorry about rabbiting on, but I hope that you find the points made from a
trader to be pertinent.
Peter Berry
Baccus 6mm
Ray Rangel
The only thing that I would add is that the reach of internet catalogs is
much further that an individual's PC. People PC talk and game with people
that don't. I have *never* been in a meeting or gaming situation where I
didn't overhear "I saw on newsgroup..." or "Here's the catalog I downloaded
you asked for..."
Besides, the guys who are "connected" always have the latest scuttlebutt
about what's happening in the hobby, who's just bough who's molds, and who's
figures are available from where. No longer is the gamer dependent on the
relationship between the shop owner - distributor - manufacturer
communication line or months old magazine articles.
I have to believe that companies that express no interest in having a net
presence either don't understand how little the costs really are or have a
luddite mentality.
Tom Bryant
One thing that may prohibit or limit a company's web potential is
management mindset. If you run a place like Emperor's HQ which has a
retail store and a mail order division and you as management wish to
maintain a hands on type of operation, running a third division is
almost too much to take. The other issue, is who designs your website.
Please remember, this is a wholesale or retail sales set up on line.
because of this it is going to be considerably different from the
typical "My hompage of useless trivia and personal stuff that I know
someone out there will be interested in." You are trying to sell either
your wares or your services. as such image is everything. Maybe the
owner's are leery of hiring Freddie the 16 year old genius who taught
himself HTML over Spring Break. Ditto for hiring the firm that someone
told them about. these guys come in looking less than professional,
sounding less than professional, and acting less than professional.
Somebody like the Emperor's HQ may be looking for a combination of
web-savvy and marketing/business knowledge. this is not something you
find every day.
Tom Bryant
Ed Lizak
hosting "cookie-cutter" retail sites for very little cost per month.
Even if a company wanted to start out small it would allow them to get
their feet wet in an area they should at least be making informed
decisions about.
I can understand a company taking their time and putting togather a
good design and having an intelligent approach to the Internet. What
prompted my first message was the comment that EHQ didn't appear to
have any interest in the Internet as a sales tool. That, I think, is
short sighted in markets and industries like our hobby but hey, it's
their decision to make and their money.
As for finding a company to do a site:
Open up phone book, look though the pages of companies willing to do
this service. Pick a few at random, call them for rates, ask for some
links to previous web sites they have done. Finally, bring in a few
to talk over what you want them to do and how quickily you want it
done. This is such an easy thing to do for what you stand to gain
from it. And it takes no knowledge of computers, web design or stuff
like that. Of course the people involved must know what the Internet
is and how to check out the different types of retail offerings on the
Web so they can point to a site and say "I like that".
Finally, the Amazon.Com argument (yes, I know they lose money) - They
also compete primarily with at least one store in every mall in
America and thousands of other booksellers both locally and on-line.
If it was all about how much money they were making today, their stock
(and every other Internet stock) wouldn't be selling at such high
prices. It's not about today or yesterday. It's about the future and
what it's going to look like from a retailer's viewpoint. Some
companies can come late to the dance and deep pockets will make up for
the lateness, others, whose pockets may not be so deep, may find
themselves saying "If only I had some kind of warning..."
-EJL
Paul
about a year ago (I still work as their Internet Sales Person, as well
as handling the Mail Order department). We have certainly seen our Mail
Order sales go onwards and upwards thanks to our website, and the site
has also increased shop sales - we've had shop customers tell us that
they found out about the shop through the net.
Whilst we have a lot of international (outside UK) customers on the net,
we still have many more UK based internet customers. many of them
access the net from their place of work, but with the growing numbers of
people accessing the net from home using one of the new "free" (i.e. no
net charges, just phone call charges) ISPs, the majority of them are now
accessing from work. And that doesn't include the number of school
children and students who access the web from the computers which are
available in most schools and colleges.
Any trader, whether they are a retailer or a manufacturer or both (such
as ourselves) is going to lose out big-time in the very near future if
they ignore this medium.
Just my two pence worth.
Cheers
Paul - Under One Flag / POP Enterprises, Shop and Mail Order
Purveyors of Previously Enjoyed Roleplaying and Wargaming Games
Hand-Crafters of Model Buildings for 15, 25 and 28mm Wargaming
http://www.p-o-p.demon.co.uk - Tel/Fax: +44 (0)115 913 0233
M1Aurelius
>I spoke to them at historicon last summer. They don't have one and from
>what they said there were no plans to create one.
>blaze
From what I heard recently here (in Chicago) is that EHQ is winding up its
retail store. They are possible moving into warehouse space from which to
continue mail order. My guess is that their publishing will be the emphasis in
the future.
I think the hobby is somewhat unique in that it is small and exclusive enough
that most manufacturers/distributors are able to develop personal relationships
with their customers. Those that don't will probably not be successful. Either
by phone or the internet (with occasional face to face contact at shows) this
way of doing business seems to work for everybody.
Mark Huml
Steve
Wargaming companies can seek out graphic design/advertising professionals
who not only know something about web design but marketing plans as well.
And it wouldn’t hurt if they occassionally played wargames! Everyone makes
the assumption that if I build it they will come. Good common sense
marketing and a GOOD LOOKING, WELL THOUGHT OUT SITE THAT LOADS QUICKLY will
go a long way. Unfortunately, web design is at the same crossroads that
design went through at the advent of the computer age. Everyone who owned a
computer all of a suuden knew something about design. Not to offend anyone…
but a computer, does not a designer make.
I cringe at most hobby sites. They are crude, slow loading, and not well
thought out. But everyone thinks they are now web designers.
Sorry about the soap box. But things could be a lot better for a hobby site
with a little professional help. Unfortunately, those that do seek help,
look as if they are going to places that are more tech driven than design
driven.
Steve Gaines
Creative Director/Principal
Clockwork Design Studio
(Occassional wargamer when not busting but on design projects)