[BTECH]Letter-Writing Campaign!
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
Friend and neighbours!
After much rumination and rummaging, the time has come for all of us
BattleTech fans--MoBsters, CoMsters, and MNA members--to let Harmony Gold
and Playmates know that we're pissed as hell that they've bullied FASA
into yanking the Original 14 Mechs.
Here are the snail addresses for the offenders:
Harmony Gold USA, Inc.
7655 Sunset Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90046
Attn: President
Playmates Toys, Inc.
16200 S. Trojan Way
La Mirada, CA 90638
Attn: President
Please write letters to these people and vent your anger upon them. But
please remember these things:
1) please keep your language clean. Yes, I am one to talk, but this isn't
USENET and we're not dealing with warezpuppies and spammers.
2) please make sure your letter is coherent. If it doesn't make sense,
it'll get tossed more quickly, and that would suck. Put a good deal of
thought into your letter.
3) Please be polite. No Camille-like comments, please. :)
4) Good spelling is helpful--spellcheckers are your friends. I'm not
saying this to be patronising. I'm quite serious--good spelling and
grammar go a long way towards getting your message across.
PLEASE write to these people and voice your displeasure with their
bullying tactics! It is because of these entities that FASA had to pull
the artwork for the Original 14 Mechs--and as such they deserve the
fullest measure of our anger.
--Camille.
--
All unsolicited commercial e-mail coming to this account is subject to a
service charge of $250 per piece of mail. Sending any UCE to this
account constitutes acceptance of these terms.
http://www.primenet.com/~capella/mob.html
Death to Playmates and Harmony Gold!
Ken
On 29 Jan 1997, Chad Thompson wrote:
> The Unsinkable Camille Klein (cap...@primenet.com) wrote:
> : Friend and neighbours!
>
> : After much rumination and rummaging, the time has come for all of us
> : BattleTech fans--MoBsters, CoMsters, and MNA members--to let Harmony Gold
> : and Playmates know that we're pissed as hell that they've bullied FASA
> : into yanking the Original 14 Mechs.
>
> How about supplying a form letter for those of us that care but also
> friggin busy.
>
kForm letters don't hold as much weight with corperations as origional
letters do. They assume that if you write a letter, X people think the
same, if it is a form letter, the think Y people(less than X people) think
the same way, so if possible, origional letters are _much_ better.
Ken'
Chad Thompson
: After much rumination and rummaging, the time has come for all of us
: BattleTech fans--MoBsters, CoMsters, and MNA members--to let Harmony Gold
: and Playmates know that we're pissed as hell that they've bullied FASA
: into yanking the Original 14 Mechs.
How about supplying a form letter for those of us that care but also
friggin busy.
--
=======================================================================
While Science continues to learn, for each question answered there are
two more asked. Therefore, Science will never explain everything.
That's where Faith comes in.
Chad Thompson
thom...@cs.uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~thomp901
NCATT MDL/SQL/VC++ programmer
=======================================================================
Stan Bundy
Chad Thompson <thom...@cs.uidaho.edu> wrote in article
<5cm5fj$bml$1...@newshound.csrv.uidaho.edu>...
> The Unsinkable Camille Klein (cap...@primenet.com) wrote:
> : Friend and neighbours!
>
> : After much rumination and rummaging, the time has come for all of us
> : BattleTech fans--MoBsters, CoMsters, and MNA members--to let Harmony
Gold
> : and Playmates know that we're pissed as hell that they've bullied FASA
> : into yanking the Original 14 Mechs.
>
> How about supplying a form letter for those of us that care but also
> friggin busy.
>
How about you guys just getting a LIFE and forget the whole damn thing???
Sources have told me (1 of which is a RP employee) that FASA knew
__IN 1990__ that the rights that they had originally acquired for the mechs
(in the 1980s) were bogus, but still kept using the designs.
It's over; live with it. And, besides; last I heard, Harmony Gold didn't
have a say in the matter anyway, having signed their rights (to benefit or
alter the suit's settlement) away to Playmates back in 1994 or 1995, at
Playmates' request. So, even if HG wanted, Playmates would have to agree to
it, and that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
Besides, the current designs or so much better anyway.
One last comment on the anime-based mechs:
Overheard at Gen Con 1992? (When 3055 came out):
Slot 1A, the Battletech briefing -
A truly over-obsessed Mechwarrior (complete with homemade House Davion
mechwarrior jumpsuit) proclaimed very loudly, referring to the IIC mech art
-
"How dare THE JAPANESE do this to OUR MECHS!!!!"
jeez.......
Kellen Barber
I hate to be the doofus, but could someone please explain to me
what this is all about? I have been hearing a lot of it lately but I
don't quite understand what's going on. Does this have some thing to do
with Ral Partha pulling the original mechs? Any info would be
appreciated.
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
Aliens and the Trilateral Commission used Orbital Mind Control Lasers to
make Stan Bundy (sbu...@kih.net) say:
# How about you guys just getting a LIFE and forget the whole damn thing???
How about you piss off?
# Sources have told me (1 of which is a RP employee) that FASA knew
# __IN 1990__ that the rights that they had originally acquired for the mechs
What sources are those? Care to name them? I didn't think so--why don't
you go over to r.g.frp.misc and hang out with Dave Nalle. You and he can
throw about bogosity together.
# (in the 1980s) were bogus, but still kept using the designs.
# It's over; live with it. And, besides; last I heard, Harmony Gold didn't
It's not over. Harmony Gold are bullies. I will not rest--live with it,
asshole.
# have a say in the matter anyway, having signed their rights (to benefit or
# alter the suit's settlement) away to Playmates back in 1994 or 1995, at
# Playmates' request. So, even if HG wanted, Playmates would have to agree to
# it, and that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
Another "I heard blahblahblah crapcrapcrap..." statement. Care to provide
a source for your claims so that I may verify it myself? No? Why am I
not surprised?
# Besides, the current designs or so much better anyway.
The originals are an integral part of the game, jerky. If you care to
settle this in person, I will be at GenCon this year (barring my contract
at IBM not being renewed[1]).
# One last comment on the anime-based mechs:
You mean the IIC "dancing mechs"?
# Overheard at Gen Con 1992? (When 3055 came out):
# Slot 1A, the Battletech briefing -
# A truly over-obsessed Mechwarrior (complete with homemade House Davion
# mechwarrior jumpsuit) proclaimed very loudly, referring to the IIC mech art
# -
# "How dare THE JAPANESE do this to OUR MECHS!!!!"
Oh, and of course this applies to the Original 14 as well.
# jeez.......
Yeah, jeez.....
Go away, foolio.
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
Aliens and the Trilateral Commission used Orbital Mind Control Lasers to
# I hate to be the doofus, but could someone please explain to me
# what this is all about? I have been hearing a lot of it lately but I
# don't quite understand what's going on. Does this have some thing to do
# with Ral Partha pulling the original mechs? Any info would be
# appreciated.
I'm sure that shill for Harmony Gold will pop his ignorant ass up again,
but FWIW here's a copy of a post I made on this a while ago.
=========================================================
From: The Unsinkable Camille Klein <cap...@primenet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha
Subject: Re: Question abou the missing mechs.
Date: 19 Jan 1997 06:53:02 -0700
Aliens and the Trilateral Commission used Orbital Mind Control Lasers to
make iamJAWS (iam...@world-net.net) say:
# Sorry, this must be getting old.
It is, but I'll keep enlightening the masses for as long as I damn well
have to.
# Ok, I used to worship BT, but I haven't played it for a couple years. I
# just got back into it and was astounded when they took out the mechs that
# they did, The Warhammer, and the Marauder, those are two of the most
# important mechs made, why were they removed, I heard a rumor that the mechs
# looked too much like mechs in the Robotech game, and a lawsuit forced FASA
# to remove them, is this true? If so, would someone please clarify this.
# This pissed a friend of mine off when I told him, what will be done to
# replace them, will the pictures be changed?
In the beginning was FASA. And FASA needed artwork for their new giant
robot game. And lo, FASA came before the Secret Robotech Masters (the
Japanese) and they did ask for permission to use the artwork from
Robotech/Macross/Southern Cross(Please correct me if I made a gaffe
here--unless you work for Harmony Gold[1]). And the Japanese smiled upon
FASA and said "Sure, we'll be GLAD to give you a licence." And they did
licence the artwork in perpetuity to FASA, and the year was 1983. And it
came to pass that, in the year 1984, Battletech did hit the market as
"Battledroids" (which sorely aggrieved the Mighty Effectsmaster Lucas, but
that is another story), and the name was soon changed to BattleTech. And
lo, Harmony Gold came before the Secret Robotech Masters and did ask for
permission to take all of the Robotech series and market them in the US as
one series called "Robotech". And the Japanese smiled upon Harmony Gold
and said "Sure, We'll be GLAD to give you a licence to release them on
videotape in the States." And it came to pass that, int he year 1985, the
Robotech saga hit the market on videotape.
And lo, Harmony Gold saw that FASA had gotten to the Japanese before they
did and licenced artwork from the Robotech saga and other anime from them,
and they saw also that FASA was enjoying some success with BattleTech.
And lo, Harmony Gold did become covetous of FASA's success and decided "We
must teach them not to go to the Japanese before we do." And it came to
pass that Harmony Gold filed a lawsuit against FASA charging them with
copyright infringement. And the judge threw out the suit finally because
Harmony Gold had no case, for FASA had gotten to the Japanese first. And
Harmony Gold did smoulder with anger, and FASA waxed ever more popular,
and BattleTech took off like a rocket. And lo, in the year 1991 or
thereabouts, FASA decided that they wanted to have an animated series and
a line of toys from the BattleTech universe. And they came unto Playmates
and said "Hi, we'd like to talk to you about the possibility of Playmates
making BTech toys to go with an animated series." And Playmates waxed
snobbish and said "Get lost kid, we're not interested." And so FASA made
their great blunder and talked to Tyco, They Who Make Schlock. And Tyco
got together with S'haban and they did create the Abomination known as the
K'hartoon. In the meantime, Playmates did go unto (IIRC) DIC and said
"Hey, we'd like to create a giant robot cartoon--want to help?" And DIC
liked the idea, and together they did create ExoSquad--which you must
admit was MUCH better than the K'hartoon.
And lo, FASA saw that one of the E-Frames in ExoSquad looked suspiciously
like the Timber Wolf BattleMech from BattleTech. And So they did bring
suit against Playmates. And the case was thrown out because the judge
felt that the two looked dissimilar enough that there wasn't room for FASA
to bitch. And so Playmates did smoulder with anger--how dare FASA take
them to task for ripping something off? And so Harmony Gold came unto
Playmates and said "Lo, let us band together and use our combined economic
might to bully the much smaller FASA into doing what we want them to do."
And Playmates did join with Harmony Gold, and the two of them brought yet
another suit against FASA for copyright infringement. The case was
finally thrown out--but not until after this sage's name was dragged into
it, which again is another story. And lo, Playmates and Harmony Gold
threatened to keep doing this until FASA was driven into the hellhole of
Chapter 11. And so with a heavy heart FASA decided that they must brave
the ire of clueless doofi and pull the artwork for the Original 14 Mechs.
But lo, FASA still allows them to be used in tournament play, and they
will still be mentioned in novels and sourcebooks!
Thus ends the lesson. Amen.
--Camille.
[1]If you're from Harmony Gold, I suggest that you stay in lurk-mode, lest
thy name and email address wind up being posted to alt.2600 and
subscribed to various mailing lists, for such is the wrath of the
Godmother.
============================================================
Hope this helps. There is also an HTML-ised version at
http://www.primenet.com/~capella/wisdom.html
Michael Kelly
In article <01bc0e2f$7e2d96e0$c27069ce@default>, "Stan Bundy" <sbu...@kih.net> wrote:
>Chad Thompson <thom...@cs.uidaho.edu> wrote in article
><5cm5fj$bml$1...@newshound.csrv.uidaho.edu>...
>> The Unsinkable Camille Klein (cap...@primenet.com) wrote:
>> : Friend and neighbours!
>>
>> : After much rumination and rummaging, the time has come for all of us
>> : BattleTech fans--MoBsters, CoMsters, and MNA members--to let Harmony
>> : Gold and Playmates know that we're pissed as hell that they've bullied
>> : FASA into yanking the Original 14 Mechs.
>>
>> How about supplying a form letter for those of us that care but also
>> friggin busy.
>>
Oh god, you leave for a couple of months and when you return you find out that
RGM has forgotten to spray for idiots. Sources told me (one of them a
hatstand) that I was the son of a "Space Alien" [tm] and a deposed Princess
that doesn't make it true now does it? Furthermore, anonymous sources aren't
really worth mentioning now are they?
About the designs, I won't bother correcting you, Camille is far more elegant
that I.
>It's over; live with it. And, besides; last I heard, Harmony Gold didn't
>have a say in the matter anyway, having signed their rights (to benefit or
>alter the suit's settlement) away to Playmates back in 1994 or 1995, at
>Playmates' request. So, even if HG wanted, Playmates would have to agree to
>it, and that ain't gonna happen anytime soon.
>
>Besides, the current designs or so much better anyway.
Maybe in your not so humble opinion they are, I don't agree.
>One last comment on the anime-based mechs:
>
>Overheard at Gen Con 1992? (When 3055 came out):
> Slot 1A, the Battletech briefing -
>
>A truly over-obsessed Mechwarrior (complete with homemade House Davion
>mechwarrior jumpsuit) proclaimed very loudly, referring to the IIC mech art
>-
>
>"How dare THE JAPANESE do this to OUR MECHS!!!!"
>
>jeez.......
Indeed, were you related to this guy? You both seem equally clueless.
Mike Kelly.
My opinions are mine alone and do not reflect those of my employers.
The opinions expressed here are mine and do not reflect those of my employers.
Scopedog
The Unsinkable Camille Klein wrote:
>
> Aliens and the Trilateral Commission used Orbital Mind Control Lasers to
not so vaguely) remember you mentioning how you don't like anime all
that much, or even at all... If that's true, why are the original 14 so
important to you? Regarding Battletech mythos, only the names are
really that important... It seems a bit hypocritical for you to want
them that badly... Or(barring all legalities) is it that you believe
those designs belong as much to Battletech as they do to the series they
were extrapolated from? I too believe they should not have been forced
out, but I also believe they shouldn't have been used in the first
place(ninjo/giri thing going on here)... Since it's too late to forget
them, the next best thing is to either phase them out or commission new
art... No one should have bullied FASA to get rid of those designs, and
for that, I would condemn Harmony Gold and Playmates, but in any case,
(I wish the circumstances had been better)it is simply time for FASA to
come to terms and make a decision regarding the two-dimensional
representation of those designs...
Certainly, I can understand why you would consider them integral, but I
think a question you should examine objectively is: "Who had'em first?
Me or the anime geeks?"... As long as the designs stay, it's a bit
irritating to an anime fan that a Battletech fan would dare consider the
designs "theirs"... As long as the designs are gone, the Battletech
fans are angry and deprived of some very important characters(if you can
call a 'mech that)... A dilemma... I always believed most Battletech
fans were also anime fans, but, from reading this ng, it seems only
50-60% or possibly less are... I'm torn by this controversy, but I
think doing something, anything, about the original 14, whether they go,
stay, or change, is probably for the best...
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
Aliens and the Trilateral Commission used Orbital Mind Control Lasers to
# I'm just wondering... When lurking through this ng, I vaguely(alright,
# not so vaguely) remember you mentioning how you don't like anime all
# that much, or even at all... If that's true, why are the original 14 so
# important to you? Regarding Battletech mythos, only the names are
Who cares what I think of anime? Why is it important? The Original 14
are part of the BTech Universe--THAT is why they are important to me.
# really that important... It seems a bit hypocritical for you to want
# them that badly... Or(barring all legalities) is it that you believe
Bullshit. Pardon my language.
# those designs belong as much to Battletech as they do to the series they
# were extrapolated from? I too believe they should not have been forced
# out, but I also believe they shouldn't have been used in the first
# place(ninjo/giri thing going on here)... Since it's too late to forget
Feh. FASA licenced the artwork fair and bloody square. They have every
right to use the artwork, and Harmony Gold and Playmates have NO right to
bully them!
# them, the next best thing is to either phase them out or commission new
# art... No one should have bullied FASA to get rid of those designs, and
# for that, I would condemn Harmony Gold and Playmates, but in any case,
Uh huh. Then why are you questioning my motives? I'm not overly enthused
about anime because a well-meaning friend got WAY too enthusiastic in his
desire to get me interested in it--and I have a tendency to reject things
when I start feeling that they're being forced on me. Thus, I'm not
really that keen on anime--there's some I like, but the rest I just
ignore. But that is not the issue.
# (I wish the circumstances had been better)it is simply time for FASA to
# come to terms and make a decision regarding the two-dimensional
# representation of those designs...
They have. It's a decision that was in the opinion of myself and others
made under duress.
# Certainly, I can understand why you would consider them integral, but I
# think a question you should examine objectively is: "Who had'em first?
# Me or the anime geeks?"... As long as the designs stay, it's a bit
FASA had them first. They went to the Japanese before Harmony Gold did.
# irritating to an anime fan that a Battletech fan would dare consider the
# designs "theirs"... As long as the designs are gone, the Battletech
They are "theirs", and they are "ours" as well. Harmony Gold and
Playmates are being bullies.
# fans are angry and deprived of some very important characters(if you can
# call a 'mech that)... A dilemma... I always believed most Battletech
# fans were also anime fans, but, from reading this ng, it seems only
# 50-60% or possibly less are... I'm torn by this controversy, but I
# think doing something, anything, about the original 14, whether they go,
# stay, or change, is probably for the best...
They are just as tied in with the BTech Universe--especially after 10+
years!--as they are with the Robotech Universe.
--Camille.
Danny Frost
> > How about supplying a form letter for those of us that care but also
> > friggin busy.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "How dare THE JAPANESE do this to OUR MECHS!!!!"
>
I agree with you. Plus, if the mechs are scaled to each other and
look decent...
I might buy a few.
Warhammer
Stan Bundy wrote:
>
> Chad Thompson <thom...@cs.uidaho.edu> wrote in article
> <5cm5fj$bml$1...@newshound.csrv.uidaho.edu>...
> > The Unsinkable Camille Klein (cap...@primenet.com) wrote:
> > : Friend and neighbours!
> >
> > : After much rumination and rummaging, the time has come for all of us
> > : BattleTech fans--MoBsters, CoMsters, and MNA members--to let Harmony
> Gold
> > : and Playmates know that we're pissed as hell that they've bullied FASA
> > : into yanking the Original 14 Mechs.
> >
Hmm, do you have a problem with people wanting the original mech designs
back, or with people with an imagination? I'm just wondering...
While you may tell people 'get a life' (are you Will Shatner?), most of
the people here DO have lives, thank you very much, and don't need to be
told to.
Secondly, many people happen to LIKE the old designs (after seeing them
for so many years), and would like to see them continued. This is not
some holy crusade, we are not going to go the the corporate offices of
Playmates and bash down the doors and DEMAND that they stop their
lawsuits and allow FASA to use the artwork and minis. Not at all. What
Camille was saying was to send letters to this company letting them know
that we are displeased with what has happened.
Secondly, I notice that you had to bring to mind that the person who
made that comment at the Gen-Con happened to be dressed up as a
Mechwarrior. The way that you wrote about it, you make it sound like
anyone who dresses up like a character (whether it be B-Tech, Star Wars,
Star Trek, etc.) is out of their mind. Maybe what he said was a bit way
out, but I'm sure he was just a regular guy with a regular life outside
of gaming.
I should know, I dress up like a Klingon (or a Feddie) when the muse
takes me.
While I am not trying to attack you, I am trying to tell you why this
was set forth, in my own opinion.
Just my 2 C-bills.
Warhammer
John M. Atkinson
The Unsinkable Camille Klein wrote:
> The originals are an integral part of the game, jerky. If you care to
> settle this in person, I will be at GenCon this year (barring my contract
> at IBM not being renewed[1]).
It was such a good post, but where, oh, where is the footnote?
--
John M. Atkinson
jatk...@gmu.edu
If a country is worth living in, it is worth fighting for.
-Manning Coles
sola...@aol.com
In article <5cpn81$i...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>, The Unsinkable Camille
Klein <cap...@primenet.com> writes:
>The originals are an integral part of the game, jerky. If you care to
>settle this in person, I will be at GenCon this year (barring my contract
>at IBM not being renewed[1]).
>
>
Camille, you forgot the footnote.
One question though. Where did you get your information on all of this?
Yes I am not happy (at all) about looseing the original 14, but I have
heard some stuff that is not listed above. 1-One of the reasons the mechs
got dropped is that Ral Partha was sued by the Japanese and lost. (This is
from one of their sales persons) Also I have been told (I do not know this
as a fact) that the original Battledroids game did not have the Macross
mechs in it. And if Harmony gold could sue about the Macross mecks they do
not have the rights for Dugram or Crusher Joe, where the rest of the mechs
came from. So why did FASA pull those? sm
Button seen at a con:
We're A Paranoid Schizopherenic,
And We Outnumber You Two to One
Scopedog
The Unsinkable Camille Klein wrote:
>
> make Scopedog (sel...@hal-pc.org) say:
> # that much, or even at all... If that's true, why are the original 14 so
> # important to you? Regarding Battletech mythos, only the names are
>
> Who cares what I think of anime? Why is it important? The Original 14
> are part of the BTech Universe--THAT is why they are important to me.
>
> # really that important... It seems a bit hypocritical for you to want
> # them that badly... Or(barring all legalities) is it that you believe
> Bullshit. Pardon my language.
>
> # those designs belong as much to Battletech as they do to the series they
> # were extrapolated from? I too believe they should not have been forced
> # out, but I also believe they shouldn't have been used in the first
> # place(ninjo/giri thing going on here)... Since it's too late to forget
> Feh. FASA licenced the artwork fair and bloody square. They have every
> right to use the artwork, and Harmony Gold and Playmates have NO right to
> bully them!
Of course big companies have no right to push around little companies...
Of course FASA has every right to use the designs they bought fair and
square... They also have every right to go back in time and buy rights
for Space Runaway Ideon, Panzer World Galient, SPT Layzner, and any
number of Japanese series mecha... All the legalities are clear, but I
wish FASA had made completely original designs to begin with... That's
the real problem here... None of this would have happened if they
hadn't adopted those designs...
>
> # them, the next best thing is to either phase them out or commission new
> # art... No one should have bullied FASA to get rid of those designs, and
> # for that, I would condemn Harmony Gold and Playmates, but in any case,
>
> Uh huh. Then why are you questioning my motives? I'm not overly
I'm not questioning your desire for action in a letter campaign(the
"motives" of a self-admitted fanatic, for whatever cause or idea, I
might be inclined to question, however), I AM questioning your desire to
bring them back...
>enthused
> about anime because a well-meaning friend got WAY too enthusiastic in his
> desire to get me interested in it--and I have a tendency to reject things
> when I start feeling that they're being forced on me. Thus, I'm not
> really that keen on anime--there's some I like, but the rest I just
> ignore. But that is not the issue.
>
> # (I wish the circumstances had been better)it is simply time for FASA to
> # come to terms and make a decision regarding the two-dimensional
> # representation of those designs...
>
> They have. It's a decision that was in the opinion of myself and others
> made under duress.
But does that mean it might never have come? Go ahead and right letters
to Harmony Gold, Playmates, or any other big business with a hand in
trying to destroy smaller, more noble companies, but consider the
possibility of compromise concerning the pictures of the designs you
want back...
>
> # Certainly, I can understand why you would consider them integral, but I
> # think a question you should examine objectively is: "Who had'em first?
> # Me or the anime geeks?"... As long as the designs stay, it's a bit
>
> FASA had them first. They went to the Japanese before Harmony Gold >did.
To point out the obvious, the Japanese had them first, and they are the
original anime geeks... Foreign distribution rights be danged...
>
> # irritating to an anime fan that a Battletech fan would dare consider the
> # designs "theirs"... As long as the designs are gone, the Battletech
>
> They are "theirs", and they are "ours" as well. Harmony Gold and
> Playmates are being bullies.
>
> # fans are angry and deprived of some very important characters(if you can
> # call a 'mech that)... A dilemma... I always believed most Battletech
> # fans were also anime fans, but, from reading this ng, it seems only
> # 50-60% or possibly less are... I'm torn by this controversy, but I
> # think doing something, anything, about the original 14, whether they go,
> # stay, or change, is probably for the best...
>
> They are just as tied in with the BTech Universe--especially after 10+
> years!--as they are with the Robotech Universe.
Why in heck do you love the word Robotech so much?! Robotech is the
second incarnation of Macross and some would say it is a travesty...
I'm talking about original Japanese TV series before American influence
or tampering... Nobody would or could argue that the designs belong
just as much to anyone who would buy rights to their likeness as they do
to the originators(the Japanese)... At first it was okay that FASA had
recognizable designs(at least recognizable to a marginal few)... The
game didn't have much of a story... You were free to design
Dougram-style campaigns around your favorite Dougram mecha... Over the
years, FASA denied the respective heritages of those mecha by putting
together a grand story... The Tomahawk was no longer a Tomahawk called
Warhammer by American tactical-gamers, it was now -only- Warhammer, one
of which was piloted by the great Natasha Kerensky... It was no longer
a supporting character notable for it's obscure reference to some
Japanese TV series... This is what bugs me... It's as if 2 cartoons
are using the same character... Well, you can't say the Tomahawk
belongs to the Inner Sphere, then what would all the Zentraedi kill?
You also can't say the Warhammer doesn't belong to the Inner Sphere...
Too long a line of illustrious pilots have ridden one in their
career... That's why I say new art should be commissioned, and the
anime mecha given back to their anime... The Longbow got redone, and I
like it, why not the rest? I say it's been a long time in coming... It
would get FASA out from under their dark cloud, and uninformed people
would no longer say: "Hey, FASA stole that from [insert anime here]!"
My final note: If FASA is able to put the designs back, in original
form, I would not be offended(I'm not sure if FASA should care whether
or not I'm offended, however) but in any case, bombarding Harmony Gold
and Playmates with letters of displeasure for what they've allegedly
done is in no way a bad thing...
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced John M. Atkinson
to say:
# It was such a good post, but where, oh, where is the footnote?
Dammit, I did it again didn't I? And I was getting so much better. :/
Here it is:
[1] I think my contract will be renewed--of course, the comment that
necessitated this footnote doesn't apply anymore. This week has been
WIERD as hell.
--Camille. Got fired and hired in the same day--details divulged in
email.
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Scopedog to say:
# > Feh. FASA licenced the artwork fair and bloody square. They have every
# > right to use the artwork, and Harmony Gold and Playmates have NO right to
# > bully them!
# Of course big companies have no right to push around little companies...
No, they don't. Mind you, that is simply my opinion--I do not like
bullies[1].
# Of course FASA has every right to use the designs they bought fair and
# square... They also have every right to go back in time and buy rights
# for Space Runaway Ideon, Panzer World Galient, SPT Layzner, and any
# number of Japanese series mecha... All the legalities are clear, but I
I believe they did licence artwork from those as well. I am not otaku, so
I cannot recite anime for anime where every last non-FASA piece of artwork
came from.
# wish FASA had made completely original designs to begin with... That's
# the real problem here... None of this would have happened if they
# hadn't adopted those designs...
When FASA first released BTech, they wanted artwork that would be familiar
to the majority of gamers. That is why they licenced artwork from the
Japanese.
# I'm not questioning your desire for action in a letter campaign(the
# "motives" of a self-admitted fanatic, for whatever cause or idea, I
# might be inclined to question, however), I AM questioning your desire to
# bring them back...
The reason for the letter-writing campaign is not to have the designs
brought back. Were that the case, I would be encouraging people to
contribute to FASA's legal expenses. The reason, as has been said by
others, is to let HG and Playmates know that there are a lot of people who
are greatly displeased with their bullying FASA into submission (as it
were).
# > They have. It's a decision that was in the opinion of myself and others
# > made under duress.
# But does that mean it might never have come? Go ahead and right letters
Yes. BTW, YM "write". HTH.
# to Harmony Gold, Playmates, or any other big business with a hand in
# trying to destroy smaller, more noble companies, but consider the
# possibility of compromise concerning the pictures of the designs you
# want back...
See above, please.
# > FASA had them first. They went to the Japanese before Harmony Gold >did.
# To point out the obvious, the Japanese had them first, and they are the
# original anime geeks... Foreign distribution rights be danged...
Yes, but the Japanese originators are not suing FASA. Harmony Gold and
Playmates are.
# > They are just as tied in with the BTech Universe--especially after 10+
# > years!--as they are with the Robotech Universe.
# Why in heck do you love the word Robotech so much?! Robotech is the
# second incarnation of Macross and some would say it is a travesty...
It's what I am most familiar with--as I said, I am not otaku and have
little more than a very mild interest in anime. It's not a question of
whether or not I love the word. It's the word I am most familiar with.
# I'm talking about original Japanese TV series before American influence
# or tampering... Nobody would or could argue that the designs belong
# just as much to anyone who would buy rights to their likeness as they do
# to the originators(the Japanese)... At first it was okay that FASA had
# recognizable designs(at least recognizable to a marginal few)... The
# game didn't have much of a story... You were free to design
Okay....
# Dougram-style campaigns around your favorite Dougram mecha... Over the
You still can. You can ignore the storyline if you want.
# years, FASA denied the respective heritages of those mecha by putting
# together a grand story... The Tomahawk was no longer a Tomahawk called
# Warhammer by American tactical-gamers, it was now -only- Warhammer, one
# of which was piloted by the great Natasha Kerensky... It was no longer
So? To me, a non-otaku, it is the Warhammer. That is all it has been and
all it ever will be. What is stopping you--stopping anyone who cares
to--from looking at it as also being the Tomahawk?
# a supporting character notable for it's obscure reference to some
# Japanese TV series... This is what bugs me... It's as if 2 cartoons
# are using the same character... Well, you can't say the Tomahawk
# belongs to the Inner Sphere, then what would all the Zentraedi kill?
BattleTech is not a bug hunt. It was not designed as a bug hunt. You are
mixing storylines. So it's one thing in one game/anime/whatever, and
something else in another game/whatever. BFD.
# You also can't say the Warhammer doesn't belong to the Inner Sphere...
It doesn't belong solely to the Inner Sphere. It belongs to the Clans as
well.
# Too long a line of illustrious pilots have ridden one in their
# career... That's why I say new art should be commissioned, and the
# anime mecha given back to their anime... The Longbow got redone, and I
# like it, why not the rest? I say it's been a long time in coming... It
# would get FASA out from under their dark cloud, and uninformed people
# would no longer say: "Hey, FASA stole that from [insert anime here]!"
Think about it, though. The Longbow wasn't as featured as the
Warhammer/Marauder/Phoenix Hawk/etc. So it's no big deal. But...how are
you going to 'revamp' the Original 14?
# My final note: If FASA is able to put the designs back, in original
# form, I would not be offended(I'm not sure if FASA should care whether
# or not I'm offended, however) but in any case, bombarding Harmony Gold
# and Playmates with letters of displeasure for what they've allegedly
# done is in no way a bad thing...
I don't understand this last statement in light of your previous comments.
--Camille.
[1]Regardless of what certain doofi--Owenbugger, for example--think, I am
not a bully and have flamed everyone at one time or another. Being unable
to take a flame or two from me != me being a bully.
Scopedog
The Unsinkable Camille Klein wrote:
>
>
> # > Feh. FASA licenced the artwork fair and bloody square. They have every
> # > right to use the artwork, and Harmony Gold and Playmates have NO right to
> # > bully them!
>
> # Of course big companies have no right to push around little companies...
>
> No, they don't. Mind you, that is simply my opinion--I do not like
> bullies[1].
>
> # Of course FASA has every right to use the designs they bought fair and
> # square... They also have every right to go back in time and buy rights
> # for Space Runaway Ideon, Panzer World Galient, SPT Layzner, and any
> # number of Japanese series mecha... All the legalities are clear, but I
>
> I believe they did licence artwork from those as well. I am not otaku, so
> I cannot recite anime for anime where every last non-FASA piece of artwork
> came from.
those, and yes I can recite anime for anime where every last non-FASA
piece of artwork came from...
>
> # wish FASA had made completely original designs to begin with... That's
> # the real problem here... None of this would have happened if they
> # hadn't adopted those designs...
>
> When FASA first released BTech, they wanted artwork that would be familiar
> to the majority of gamers. That is why they licenced artwork from the
> Japanese.
It couldn't have been very widely familiar... Macross hadn't come
out... You would have to have had otakist connections... But I'm sure
those that did know, where some part of FASA's demographic for Btech...
>
> # I'm not questioning your desire for action in a letter campaign(the
> # "motives" of a self-admitted fanatic, for whatever cause or idea, I
> # might be inclined to question, however), I AM questioning your desire to
> # bring them back...
>
> The reason for the letter-writing campaign is not to have the designs
> brought back. Were that the case, I would be encouraging people to
> contribute to FASA's legal expenses. The reason, as has been said by
> others, is to let HG and Playmates know that there are a lot of people who
> are greatly displeased with their bullying FASA into submission (as it
> were).
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I distinctly remember you saying something
like: "Tell HG and Playmates to let FASA put the designs back!" in that
first letter-campaign post... That was the intended root of my original
comments... If I was wrong; I made one big danged blunder...
>
> # > They have. It's a decision that was in the opinion of myself and others
> # > made under duress.
>
> # But does that mean it might never have come? Go ahead and right letters
>
> Yes. BTW, YM "write". HTH.
AARGH! And I thought I had dubble-chekked good...
>
> # to Harmony Gold, Playmates, or any other big business with a hand in
> # trying to destroy smaller, more noble companies, but consider the
> # possibility of compromise concerning the pictures of the designs you
> # want back...
>
> See above, please.
Yeah, see above...
>
> # > FASA had them first. They went to the Japanese before Harmony Gold >did.
> # To point out the obvious, the Japanese had them first, and they are the
> # original anime geeks... Foreign distribution rights be danged...
>
> Yes, but the Japanese originators are not suing FASA. Harmony Gold and
> Playmates are.
So go ahead with your campaign...
>
> # > They are just as tied in with the BTech Universe--especially after 10+
> # > years!--as they are with the Robotech Universe.
>
> # Why in heck do you love the word Robotech so much?! Robotech is the
> # second incarnation of Macross and some would say it is a travesty...
>
>It's what I am most familiar with--as I said, I am not otaku and have
> little more than a very mild interest in anime. It's not a question of
> whether or not I love the word. It's the word I am most familiar with.
It just so happens that using it in the context you did made it mean
absolutely nothing... "Robotech" isn't the precursor, it's original,
combined series are... What you had said is basically true, but I'm
arguing that the designs don't "BELONG" to either story, they are only
borrowed...
>
> # I'm talking about original Japanese TV series before American influence
> # or tampering... Nobody would or could argue that the designs belong
> # just as much to anyone who would buy rights to their likeness as they do
> # to the originators(the Japanese)... At first it was okay that FASA had
> # recognizable designs(at least recognizable to a marginal few)... The
> # game didn't have much of a story... You were free to design
>
> Okay....
>
> # Dougram-style campaigns around your favorite Dougram mecha... Over the
>
> You still can. You can ignore the storyline if you want.
Battletech is Battletech... The story is Battletech... At least that's
how I play it... I might as well make up my own game if I'm going to be
ignoring the story...
>
> # years, FASA denied the respective heritages of those mecha by putting
> # together a grand story... The Tomahawk was no longer a Tomahawk called
> # Warhammer by American tactical-gamers, it was now -only- Warhammer, one
> # of which was piloted by the great Natasha Kerensky... It was no longer
>
> So? To me, a non-otaku, it is the Warhammer. That is all it has been and
> all it ever will be.
Well that's the problem right there... It's not just the Warhammer...
It's a design with a rich history... Part of it's history is being
adopted into the Battletech universe...
>
> # a supporting character notable for it's obscure reference to some
> # Japanese TV series... This is what bugs me... It's as if 2 cartoons
> # are using the same character... Well, you can't say the Tomahawk
> # belongs to the Inner Sphere, then what would all the Zentraedi kill?
>
> BattleTech is not a bug hunt. It was not designed as a bug hunt. You are
> mixing storylines. So it's one thing in one game/anime/whatever, and
> something else in another game/whatever. BFD.
My whole point is that the Tomahawk(or the other liscenced designs)
shouldn't neccessarily be in more than one storyline... At least not as
long as I can distinguish them(and like I said before, I don't know if
FASA should care if I'm offended or not, and further, maybe nobody
should care whether or not I'm offended, but I've been wanting to get
this off my chest for years)...
>
> # You also can't say the Warhammer doesn't belong to the Inner Sphere...
>
> It doesn't belong solely to the Inner Sphere. It belongs to the Clans as
> well.
I meant that it belongs to the Inner Sphere's historical universe...
>
> # Too long a line of illustrious pilots have ridden one in their
> # career... That's why I say new art should be commissioned, and the
> # anime mecha given back to their anime... The Longbow got redone, and I
> # like it, why not the rest? I say it's been a long time in coming... It
> # would get FASA out from under their dark cloud, and uninformed people
> # would no longer say: "Hey, FASA stole that from [insert anime here]!"
>
> Think about it, though. The Longbow wasn't as featured as the
> Warhammer/Marauder/Phoenix Hawk/etc. So it's no big deal. But...how are
> you going to 'revamp' the Original 14?
I dunno... It seemed like FASA was doing that already... Have you
ever compared the Thunderbolt pic in TR:3050 to a Hasty from
Dougram? There's very little resemblance... The TR:3025 pic was
copied straight from Kunio Okawara's original design sketch... Same
with the rest of the liscenced designs in TR:3025; most of their
pictures were exact copies of Shoji Kawamori's and Kunio Okawara's
production artwork, except with the trademark Loose contour line,
armorplate fanciness about them... In TR:3050 and on, the Pheonix Hawk,
Thunderbolt, and Wasp, in my eyes, are suitably different from their
original forms... It can be said they're inspired but not copied; like
Heavy Gear is with VOTOMs...
But it's only those few that have changed drastically or enough...
>
> # My final note: If FASA is able to put the designs back, in original
> # form, I would not be offended(I'm not sure if FASA should care whether
> # or not I'm offended, however) but in any case, bombarding Harmony Gold
> # and Playmates with letters of displeasure for what they've allegedly
> # done is in no way a bad thing...
>
> I don't understand this last statement in light of your previous >comments.
I'm saying it's fine if FASA doesn't change the designs, since it's
bugged me this long, it can bug me for a little longer... At least
until I build my force of mighty battlemecha and impose my malevolent
rule upon the Earth...;>
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Scopedog to say:
# > I believe they did licence artwork from those as well. I am not otaku, so
# > I cannot recite anime for anime where every last non-FASA piece of artwork
# > came from.
# I named series with kind of goofy mecha, and no they didn't use any of
# those, and yes I can recite anime for anime where every last non-FASA
# piece of artwork came from...
Good for you.
# It couldn't have been very widely familiar... Macross hadn't come
# out... You would have to have had otakist connections... But I'm sure
# those that did know, where some part of FASA's demographic for Btech...
I know quite a few otaku gamers.
# > The reason for the letter-writing campaign is not to have the designs
# > brought back. Were that the case, I would be encouraging people to
# > contribute to FASA's legal expenses. The reason, as has been said by
# > others, is to let HG and Playmates know that there are a lot of people who
# > are greatly displeased with their bullying FASA into submission (as it
# > were).
# Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I distinctly remember you saying something
# like: "Tell HG and Playmates to let FASA put the designs back!" in that
That's not the same thing. The key word is *let*. If--IF--FASA decides
to put the artwork back, then they should be able to do so without having
to fear being driven into Chapter 11 by a vindictive Harmony
Gold/Playmates team/duo/unholy alliance/whatever.
# first letter-campaign post... That was the intended root of my original
# comments... If I was wrong; I made one big danged blunder...
Is okay.
# > # But does that mean it might never have come? Go ahead and right letters
# >
# > Yes. BTW, YM "write". HTH.
# AARGH! And I thought I had dubble-chekked good...
No worries. Always glad to help. :)
# > # > FASA had them first. They went to the Japanese before Harmony Gold >did.
# > # To point out the obvious, the Japanese had them first, and they are the
# > # original anime geeks... Foreign distribution rights be danged...
# >
# > Yes, but the Japanese originators are not suing FASA. Harmony Gold and
# > Playmates are.
# So go ahead with your campaign...
I am.
# It just so happens that using it in the context you did made it mean
# absolutely nothing... "Robotech" isn't the precursor, it's original,
# combined series are... What you had said is basically true, but I'm
# arguing that the designs don't "BELONG" to either story, they are only
# borrowed...
It does not change my previous statement.
# > You still can. You can ignore the storyline if you want.
# Battletech is Battletech... The story is Battletech... At least that's
# how I play it... I might as well make up my own game if I'm going to be
# ignoring the story...
# > So? To me, a non-otaku, it is the Warhammer. That is all it has been and
# > all it ever will be.
# Well that's the problem right there... It's not just the Warhammer...
# It's a design with a rich history... Part of it's history is being
# adopted into the Battletech universe...
So it has taken on its own incarnation *in the BattleTech universe*. Why
is this a problem?
# > BattleTech is not a bug hunt. It was not designed as a bug hunt. You are
# > mixing storylines. So it's one thing in one game/anime/whatever, and
# > something else in another game/whatever. BFD.
# My whole point is that the Tomahawk(or the other liscenced designs)
# shouldn't neccessarily be in more than one storyline... At least not as
# long as I can distinguish them(and like I said before, I don't know if
# FASA should care if I'm offended or not, and further, maybe nobody
# should care whether or not I'm offended, but I've been wanting to get
# this off my chest for years)...
No problem--feel free to rant. Ukko knows I do.
# I meant that it belongs to the Inner Sphere's historical universe...
Ah.
# > Think about it, though. The Longbow wasn't as featured as the
# > Warhammer/Marauder/Phoenix Hawk/etc. So it's no big deal. But...how are
# > you going to 'revamp' the Original 14?
# I dunno... It seemed like FASA was doing that already... Have you
# ever compared the Thunderbolt pic in TR:3050 to a Hasty from
# Dougram? There's very little resemblance... The TR:3025 pic was
Never paid that much attention--well, save for the fact that the 3050 TDR
was a lot easier for me to colour in than the 3025 one.
[deletia]
# But it's only those few that have changed drastically or enough...
Well, unfortunately they apparently didn't change enough to satisfy the
a**holes at Harmony Gold. Yes, they changed enough to satisfy you (for
example), but not enough to ward off the predations of Harmony Gold and
Playmates.
# > I don't understand this last statement in light of your previous >comments.
# I'm saying it's fine if FASA doesn't change the designs, since it's
# bugged me this long, it can bug me for a little longer... At least
# until I build my force of mighty battlemecha and impose my malevolent
# rule upon the Earth...;>
HA! You gotta get by me and the axe first! ;)
--Camille.
Squatch
>number of Japanese series mecha... All the legalities are clear, but I
>wish FASA had made completely original designs to begin with... That's
>the real problem here... None of this would have happened if they
>hadn't adopted those designs...
FASA had to start with something. i ASSume that they did not have the
means to come up with their own designs within the time or budget limits
that they had to start their new game. besides, all of those mechs look
great (yeah, i know looks aren't everything) FASA had to start somewhere,
why not with something that worked well for someone else.
--
Squatch
in case you didn't know:
to email me, remove the * from my address
William E. Ward
In article <32F182...@gate.cybernex.net>, Warhammer <warh...@gate.cybernex.net> writes:
> Stan Bundy wrote:
<manure which I deleted>
>
> Hmm, do you have a problem with people wanting the original mech designs
> back, or with people with an imagination? I'm just wondering...
>
> While you may tell people 'get a life' (are you Will Shatner?), most of
> the people here DO have lives, thank you very much, and don't need to be
> told to.
>
> Secondly, many people happen to LIKE the old designs (after seeing them
> for so many years), and would like to see them continued. This is not
> some holy crusade, we are not going to go the the corporate offices of
> Playmates and bash down the doors and DEMAND that they stop their
> lawsuits and allow FASA to use the artwork and minis. Not at all. What
Huh? No body told me! And here, I was just getting the battering ram
ready! Shucks, I was thinking how fun it was going to be to knock on
the President's door at Harmony Gold, and then start using the ram...
hoping he opens it while we are battering, of course ;) Just Kidding,
Harmony Gold, this is all tongue in cheek... although why don't you
folks EASE UP a bit.... the way to make money is to steal it or have
happy customers... since you aren't politicians, why not try to keep
your customers happy and drop the threats to FASA.... who knows, it
might lead to an understanding that benefits both, gets new products
out, and keeps the fans even HAPPIER.... now, back to the holy crusade...
yes, kill all the lawyers, yes... <slobber, drool> must remove evil
threat.... oh, wait, there are actually at least three lawyers worth
something, who are ok... just kill most lawyers, yes!!! ;P
--
William Ward
The Rare Mech Times
Issue #1 http://www.cs.odu.edu/~ward_w/btech.html
Issue #2 http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/2781/
R. J.
In article <19970131130...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, sola...@aol.com
says...
>One question though. Where did you get your information on all of this?
>Yes I am not happy (at all) about looseing the original 14, but I have
>heard some stuff that is not listed above. 1-One of the reasons the mechs
>got dropped is that Ral Partha was sued by the Japanese and lost. (This is
>from one of their sales persons) Also I have been told (I do not know this
>as a fact) that the original Battledroids game did not have the Macross
>mechs in it. And if Harmony gold could sue about the Macross mecks they do
>not have the rights for Dugram or Crusher Joe, where the rest of the mechs
>came from. So why did FASA pull those? sm
Okay. I cannot answer for RP and the Japanese, but I can tell you, since I
once owned it, that BattleDroids did have the Macross mecha in it.
Specifically, IIRC, the Stinger, Wasp, Phoenix Hawk, ShadowHawk, Griffin,
Crusader, Maurader, Rifleman, Warhammer, and Archer. I don't remeber if there
were any others, but my box came with 3" plastic models of the SH and Grif
that I had to assemble.
R. J.
--
******************************************************************************
*There is no problem, no matter how small, * Colonel Mikhail A. Dvorak *
*that cannot be solved by the judicious * CO StormBird Mercenary Legion *
*application of tactical nuclear devices. * HQ: Tanstaafl, Eta Bootis IIc *
******************************************************************************
John M. Atkinson
The Unsinkable Camille Klein wrote:
> [1]Regardless of what certain doofi--Owenbugger, for example--think, I am
> not a bully and have flamed everyone at one time or another. Being unable
> to take a flame or two from me != me being a bully.
I'll second that-she'll flame anything that moves. Reflex, I guess.
And whenever someone says something inconcievably stupid, she flames,
regardless of anything else-such as otherwise being friends.
Of course, those that follow this NG for long (Say, a month or two)
realize this and take it in stride. Or go away.
sola...@aol.com
> Why in heck do you love the word Robotech so much?! Robotech is the
> second incarnation of Macross and some would say it is a travesty...
>
>
Some might say it was a travesty. But NOT the Japanese who created the
original Macross. They very much liked what HG had done with the series.
And if the US buck had not been so low in value there would have been a
bunch of new episodes created. About 3 episodes where finished then
production stopped. (I am sure that some of you out there are happy about
that) sm
Jon Ivars
On 31 Jan 1997, The Unsinkable Camille Klein wrote:
> The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Scopedog to say:
> not a bully and have flamed everyone at one time or another. Being unable
> to take a flame or two from me != me being a bully.
*scratches head* I'm desperately trying to remember when you flamed me...
Not even my comments about the weakness of the Feddies and the Capellans
got more than a mildmannered response. Hmph, either I'm totally blaze and
failed to recognize a flame or you haven't flamed me at all.
Bugger, I must be too nice a person.
Star Captain Jon 'Gauss Bear' Ivars #_#
Http://www.abo.fi/~jivars/gb.htm o~^O^~o
Gawd! My sigs are getting smaller?! _/^\_
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Jon Ivars to say:
# *scratches head* I'm desperately trying to remember when you flamed me...
My bad--I was including even the most good-natured of jabs in with the
flames, since there are still people who are incapable of differentiating
between the two. Sorry bout that.
--Camille.
Nelson Eisel
The Unsinkable Camille Klein <cap...@primenet.com> wrote:
># fans are angry and deprived of some very important characters(if you can
># call a 'mech that)... A dilemma... I always believed most Battletech
># fans were also anime fans, but, from reading this ng, it seems only
># 50-60% or possibly less are... I'm torn by this controversy, but I
># think doing something, anything, about the original 14, whether they go,
># stay, or change, is probably for the best...
>They are just as tied in with the BTech Universe--especially after 10+
>years!--as they are with the Robotech Universe.
Robotech is the (legal) Americanized version of three OLDER Japanese
Anime. The designs in question came from the first of the three,
Macross.
IMHO perhaps it wasn't right for Harmony Gold & Playmates to make FASA
pull the design, but it was within their rights (obviously, since they
won), and don't you Americans value your rights above all else?
--Nelson Eisel (Canadian, a Robotech fan, and a MechWarrior player,
soon to be BT player)
Ken
On 1 Feb 1997, The Unsinkable Camille Klein wrote:
> The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Jon Ivars to say:
>
> # *scratches head* I'm desperately trying to remember when you flamed me...
>
> My bad--I was including even the most good-natured of jabs in with the
> flames, since there are still people who are incapable of differentiating
> between the two. Sorry bout that.
>
Well, you could put his mind at ease and flame him right now.... :)
Ken'
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Nelson Eisel to
say:
Axe.....flamer.....head-mounted Clan UltraERPPC....Ah to heck with it,
we'll use a nerfbat for this one.
[saaaaaa.....MACK!]
# IMHO perhaps it wasn't right for Harmony Gold & Playmates to make FASA
# pull the design, but it was within their rights (obviously, since they
# won), and don't you Americans value your rights above all else?
Harmony Gold did NOT win anything in court--the cases were thrown out. It
was not within their rights at all, *especially* because FASA had licence
to use the artwork before Harmony Gold had licence to release the Robotech
saga in the US. Where you get the idea that Harmony Gold won their court
cases against FASA is interesting (what are you smoking and where can *I*
get some?), especially because the records of the case put the lie to
that.
Swing batta batta batta.......*SMACKCRUNCHBAPBAPBAPSLAPTHWAPPOITNARFZORT*
Check thy facts before thou dost post, good sir.
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced John M. Atkinson
to say:
# > [1]Regardless of what certain doofi--Owenbugger, for example--think, I am
# > not a bully and have flamed everyone at one time or another. Being unable
# > to take a flame or two from me != me being a bully.
# I'll second that-she'll flame anything that moves. Reflex, I guess.
Innate Bitchiness. As I've said to everyone else, just take it with the
appropriately-sized block of salt and keep posting.
# And whenever someone says something inconcievably stupid, she flames,
# regardless of anything else-such as otherwise being friends.
*grin* It's either me or the tender mercies of Darwin--take your pick. ;)
# Of course, those that follow this NG for long (Say, a month or two)
# realize this and take it in stride. Or go away.
Or they become like Owenbugger.
--Camille.
Scopedog
The Unsinkable Camille Klein wrote:
>
>
> # like: "Tell HG and Playmates to let FASA put the designs back!" in that
>
> That's not the same thing. The key word is *let*. If--IF--FASA decides
> to put the artwork back, then they should be able to do so without having
> to fear being driven into Chapter 11 by a vindictive Harmony
> Gold/Playmates team/duo/unholy alliance/whatever.
It's a problem for me... I'm a nit-picker... My
obsessive/compulsiveness regarding general mecha knowledge can't
compensate for the discrepency!(Needless to say, my insanity runs deep,
fortunately I'm involved in a hobby were mental instability is
commonplace, and my personal eccentricities are somewhat out-shined by
many other individuals;>)
>
> # > BattleTech is not a bug hunt. It was not designed as a bug hunt. You are
> # > mixing storylines. So it's one thing in one game/anime/whatever, and
> # > something else in another game/whatever. BFD.
>
> # My whole point is that the Tomahawk(or the other liscenced designs)
> # shouldn't neccessarily be in more than one storyline... At least not as
> # long as I can distinguish them(and like I said before, I don't know if
> # FASA should care if I'm offended or not, and further, maybe nobody
> # should care whether or not I'm offended, but I've been wanting to get
> # this off my chest for years)...
>
> No problem--feel free to rant. Ukko knows I do.
>
> # I meant that it belongs to the Inner Sphere's historical universe...
>
> Ah.
>
> # > Think about it, though. The Longbow wasn't as featured as the
> # > Warhammer/Marauder/Phoenix Hawk/etc. So it's no big deal. But...how are
> # > you going to 'revamp' the Original 14?
>
> # I dunno... It seemed like FASA was doing that already... Have you
> # ever compared the Thunderbolt pic in TR:3050 to a Hasty from
> # Dougram? There's very little resemblance... The TR:3025 pic was
>
> Never paid that much attention--well, save for the fact that the 3050 TDR
> was a lot easier for me to colour in than the 3025 one.
<giggle>
>
> [deletia]
>
> # But it's only those few that have changed drastically or enough...
>
> Well, unfortunately they apparently didn't change enough to satisfy the
> a**holes at Harmony Gold. Yes, they changed enough to satisfy you (for
> example), but not enough to ward off the predations of Harmony Gold and
> Playmates.
Very true...
>
> # > I don't understand this last statement in light of your previous >comments.
>
> # I'm saying it's fine if FASA doesn't change the designs, since it's
> # bugged me this long, it can bug me for a little longer... At least
> # until I build my force of mighty battlemecha and impose my malevolent
> # rule upon the Earth...;>
>
> HA! You gotta get by me and the axe first! ;)
Hah, empty boast! I'll be cut to shreds long before I need ever worry
about you OR your axe...;>(My designs are grandiose, but I'm sadly an
accomplished defeatist)
Scopedog
> >
> >
>
> original Macross. They very much liked what HG had done with the series.
> And if the US buck had not been so low in value there would have been a
> bunch of new episodes created. About 3 episodes where finished then
> production stopped. (I am sure that some of you out there are happy about
> that) sm
heard it's considered in very bad taste by the Japanese... As for the
original series, webpages maintained by Japanese people(some in
Japanese) with info on American versions of Macross seem a bit split on
the issue, with favor mostly on the side of Carl Macek's crucifiction
rather than death at the stake... I'm further in beetween...
Cartoon-wise, I loved the Macross saga, and hated the rest... As far as
the novels, Macross Saga, Southern Cross, and the New Generation series
books themselves are good, but the newer "gap-filling" crap, is just
that: crap...
Robert Holland
> All the legalities are clear, but I
> wish FASA had made completely original designs to begin with... That's
> the real problem here... None of this would have happened if they
> hadn't adopted those designs...
Unfortunately, if FASA hadn't ripped designs from SOMEwhere, I seriously
doubt BTech would be around today. The reason they ripped the art from
the anime was that they had, at the time, no artists competent to draw
mecha. Have you seen the art in the original printings of the boxed set
or CityTech? Barring a couple of good paintings, everything that was not
directly traced from anime is beyond shitful. It looks like cardboard
boxes taped together. Without this art, BTech might well have never
gotten off the ground.
--
| Robert Holland
\ | / a.k.a. Silverdrake
\/--/ \--\/ Co-writer/Artist, The Rare 'Mech Times
-< \ / >- http://www.cs.odu.edu/~ward_w/btech.html
\ /
|) (| "Reality is a crutch for those who can't handle
\_/ fantasy." --Marion Zimmer Bradley
Scopedog
Robert Holland wrote:
>
> > All the legalities are clear, but I
> > wish FASA had made completely original designs to begin with... That's
> > the real problem here... None of this would have happened if they
> > hadn't adopted those designs...
>
> doubt BTech would be around today. The reason they ripped the art from
> the anime was that they had, at the time, no artists competent to draw
> mecha. Have you seen the art in the original printings of the boxed set
> or CityTech? Barring a couple of good paintings, everything that was not
> directly traced from anime is beyond shitful. It looks like cardboard
> boxes taped together. Without this art, BTech might well have never
> gotten off the ground.
over any Battletech product put out before it... "Beyond shitful" is a
little extreme don't you think? You may be pretty much right, though,
however, Battletech has grown into it's own, no longer requiring such a
gimmick as pre-established anime mecha... I believe FASA should all but
abandon it's roots in this case...
William E. Ward
In article <5ct29l$9...@nnrp1.news.primenet.com>, The Unsinkable Camille Klein <cap...@primenet.com> writes:
> The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced John M. Atkinson
> to say:
>
>
>
> Dammit, I did it again didn't I? And I was getting so much better. :/
>
> Here it is:
>
> [1] I think my contract will be renewed--of course, the comment that
> necessitated this footnote doesn't apply anymore. This week has been
> WIERD as hell.
>
BTW, in this vein, I mentioned an acronym in a post last week... someone
made half a stab, here's the answer... and how apropo!
AIHADFETCFHFICBTDG.
And if I had a dime for every time Camille forgot her footnotes, I could
buy the darn game.[1]
[1] Now do you see why I gave a footnote "double clue" asking that Camille
not use the Ax-o-doom on ME for it??? :)
Mike Bowen
On 28 Jan 1997 13:08:02 -0700, The Unsinkable Camille Klein
<cap...@primenet.com> wrote:
>Friend and neighbours!
>
>After much rumination and rummaging, the time has come for all of us
>BattleTech fans--MoBsters, CoMsters, and MNA members--to let Harmony Gold
>and Playmates know that we're pissed as hell that they've bullied FASA
>into yanking the Original 14 Mechs.
SNIP
But remember, This is not the first time FASA had their nuts in the
fire over copywrite problems. Way back in the 1980's they had a game
called "BATTLEDROIDS" . Had 2 cute 1/144 scale plastic Droids...err
Mechs in the box. From Twentieth Century imports,IIRC.
Anyway, LUCASFILMS saw it, and said, Change IT. NOW!
FASA did and became BATTLETECH.
Still, it won't be the same without the first 14.
FASA should make a deal.
How much is a original BATTLEDROIDS box set worth now anyway?
----------------------------------------------------------
"Brave men Run in MY family" ---Bob Hope in "THE PALEFACE"
Denis Brisson
On Thu, 30 Jan 1997 09:10:39 -0800, Scopedog <sel...@hal-pc.org>
wrote:
> No one should have bullied FASA to get rid of those designs, and
>for that, I would condemn Harmony Gold and Playmates, but in any case,
Umm... Forgive the lack of knowledge, but what have Harmony Gold and
Playmates made/manufactured that they have such control of a market
that I have such minimal idea about???
n...@here.now
last year including but not limited to the Glaug(Marauder),
Tomahawk/Excaliber(Warhammer), Defender/Raidar-X(Rifleman), and
Spartan/Gladiator(Archer), all of whose two-dimensional representations
are the property of FASA...
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced to say:
# Playmates re-released several Macross toys under the Exo-Squad label
# last year including but not limited to the Glaug(Marauder),
# Tomahawk/Excaliber(Warhammer), Defender/Raidar-X(Rifleman), and
# Spartan/Gladiator(Archer), all of whose two-dimensional representations
# are the property of FASA...
You are correct and incorrect. FASA does have the rights to use the
artwork free and clear. However, Harmony Gold also has the right to
licence the manufacture of toys based on representations of the mechs
because they do have the rights to release the Robotech/Macross saga on
videotape here in the US. Even though I am no friend of Harmony
Gold--indeed, they should count me an enemy(if you want to get fanatical
about it)--but at the same time I must be fair to them.
That guy in the corner
> IMHO perhaps it wasn't right for Harmony Gold & Playmates to make FASA
Yes, and we want our inalienable right to see the designs on paper! And
it's not "our rights above all else" it's "our rights above everyone
else's"; at least, when we can get away with it...;)
That guy in the corner
Why lie? shake'n'bake.
Leigh "Mad Dog" Brunk
- Being an anime nut par excellence, I am surprised that anybody would defend Harmony Gold at all. Their "Robotech" series is nothing but three completely different unrelated stories cut and spliced together by an American studio who wanted to market a Japanimation cartoon without all the sex. Nice story, but to say that those mecha picts that FASA licensed legally from the original studios rightfully "belong" to Harmony Gold is like doing a colour by numbers painting of the Mona Lisa and saying it's your original work. Maybe FASA should hire better lawyers.
- Yet another mindless rambling from...:
- MoB Cutthroat Leigh "Mad Dog" Brunk
- Homepage: Giant Robots Blew Up My Website!
Danny Frost (Dr. Doom)
n...@here.now wrote:
>
al idea about???
> Playmates re-released several Macross toys under the Exo-Squad label
> Spartan/Gladiator(Archer), all of whose two-dimensional representations
The Spartan (Longbow).
Scopedog
Leigh "Mad Dog" Brunk
- Harmony Gold made Robotech, the American cartoon version of several Japanimation series. Playmates made Robotech toys. Both are American companies, bullying FASA, another American company, into not using art that wasn't even theirs to begin with. Robotech is a translation drawn from three different series by two different Japanese studios. My understanding is that FASA had permission from the original Japanese studios to use their art, but since Harmony Gold and Playmates have the official US Rights to that material, FASA has to honour their US copyright. Isn't international law FUN?!?
- Yet another senseless rambling by...:
- Check out my home page, "Giant Robots Blew up My Website!"
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Leigh \"Mad Dog\"
Brunk to say:
[Gods I hate Web-browser/newsreaders]
# Harmony Gold made Robotech, the American cartoon version of several
# Japanimation series. Playmates made Robotech toys. Both are American
# companies, bullying FASA, another American company, into not using art
# that wasn't even theirs to begin with. Robotech is a translation drawn
# from three different series by two different Japanese studios. My
# understanding is that FASA had permission from the original Japanese
# studios to use their art, but since Harmony Gold and Playmates have the
# official US Rights to that material, FASA has to honour their US
# copyright. Isn't international law FUN?!?
FASA still has the rights to use it. They had the rights before Harmony
Gold got the rights to release the anime on video here in the
US--therefore Harmony Gold has not a leg to stand on. Please, stop
spreading false information.
# Yet another senseless rambling by...:
[html deleted--gods, get Agent willya?]
fasa...@aol.com
In article <32F75D...@here.now>, n...@here.now writes:
>Playmates re-released several Macross toys under the Exo-Squad label
>last year including but not limited to the Glaug(Marauder),
>Tomahawk/Excaliber(Warhammer), Defender/Raidar-X(Rifleman), and
>Spartan/Gladiator(Archer), all of whose two-dimensional representations
>are the property of FASA...
No, they are not the property of FASA. Both are licensed from original
Japanese sources. FASA has the rights to use them, as does
Harmony Gold. A distinction that often seems lost to some.... :)
Tom Dowd
FASA Interactive
fasa...@aol.com
In article <32F738...@kdsi.net>, "Leigh \"Mad Dog\" Brunk"
<ba...@kdsi.net> writes:
>
>Being an anime nut par excellence, I am surprised that anybody would
>defend Harmony Gold at all. Their "Robotech" series is nothing but three
>completely different unrelated stories cut and spliced together by an
>American studio who wanted to market a Japanimation cartoon without all
>the sex. Nice story, but to say that those mecha picts that FASA
>licensed legally from the original studios rightfully "belong" to
>Harmony Gold is like doing a colour by numbers painting of the Mona Lisa
>and saying it's your original work. Maybe FASA should hire better
>lawyers.
FASA's lawyers are quite excellent. They are also expensive, hence the
problem. I suppose we could get cheaper lawyers... :)
Tom Dowd
FASA Interactive
fasa...@aol.com
In article <32F93E...@kdsi.net>, "Leigh \"Mad Dog\" Brunk"
<ba...@kdsi.net> writes:
>Harmony Gold made Robotech, the American cartoon version of several
>Japanimation series. Playmates made Robotech toys. Both are American
>companies, bullying FASA, another American company, into not using art
>that wasn't even theirs to begin with. Robotech is a translation drawn
>from three different series by two different Japanese studios. My
>understanding is that FASA had permission from the original Japanese
>studios to use their art, but since Harmony Gold and Playmates have the
>official US Rights to that material, FASA has to honour their US
>copyright. Isn't international law FUN?!?
FASA license for the images applies to the US. FASA has elected to
remove the images to avoid further costly litigation, which they believe
they would win, but would have to pay for in signifiant $$.
Tom Dowd
FASA Interactive
Anakin
Whatever those rats at Harmony Gold and Playmates say, I will keep on
playing with my beloved MAD-3R Marauder. And that's what all of us, Btech
fans should do, we shouldn't care if the original designs don't appear in
any more Tech Readouts, 'cause we all have the originals (or don't we?)
and I still haven't been visited by a police telling me to stop playing
with that 'COPYRIGHTEDBYTHEJAPANESEDESIGNS'. So let's go on with Btech,
it's the only thing that matters...
Anakin Leonov, Kaeh Demons CO
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Anakin to say:
# Whatever those rats at Harmony Gold and Playmates say, I will keep on
# playing with my beloved MAD-3R Marauder. And that's what all of us, Btech
# fans should do, we shouldn't care if the original designs don't appear in
# any more Tech Readouts, 'cause we all have the originals (or don't we?)
# and I still haven't been visited by a police telling me to stop playing
# with that 'COPYRIGHTEDBYTHEJAPANESEDESIGNS'. So let's go on with Btech,
The cops won't show up at your door. And the rights to the designs are
held by FASA and Harmony Gold both--it's just that Harmony Gold refuses to
put up with FASA exercising those rights.
*sigh* The Enemy is full of drek, the Ally is confused... I wish I could
speak more than two languages, so I could translate the Page O' Venerable
Wisdom<http://www.primenet.com/~capella/wisdom.html> into language(s) that
everyone could understand. :/
--Camille.
[0] If my German was better, I'd feel comfortable with putting up a German
version.
Michael Kelly
In article <32FA8E...@minerva.uab.es>, Anakin <di2...@minerva.uab.es> wrote:
>Whatever those rats at Harmony Gold and Playmates say, I will keep on
>
> Anakin Leonov, Kaeh Demons CO
Sure they're in the readouts we have, but they aren't in the card game[1] and
won't be in any future computer games, that's what annoys me.
Mike Kelly.
[1]Hmmm... artists were employed to provide illustrations for the all the
mechs in the card-game and FASA willnot/cannot, for legal reasons, use the
artwork they rightfully licensed... anyone else spot a missed opportunity
here?
The opinions expressed here are mine and do not reflect those of my employers.
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced George Macoukji to say:
# Why not go through with the litigation, then make the other company
# pay for your lawyers through compensatory and punitive dmages?
# <wicked grin> I believe there are solid legal precedents for this ...
Because there is a chance that FASA might not win--and if they do not win
OR if the case is thrown out, what is to stop Harmony Gold from starting
up their assault again?
I do see your point--but you have to realise that it's one helluva
crapshoot.
--Camille.
Robert Holland
> FASA license for the images applies to the US. FASA has elected to
> remove the images to avoid further costly litigation, which they believe
> they would win, but would have to pay for in signifiant $$.
>
> Tom Dowd
> FASA Interactive
Out of sheer curiosity, Tom, how much do you estimate the costs would
be?
Robert Holland
> FASA license for the images applies to the US. FASA has elected to
> remove the images to avoid further costly litigation, which they believe
> they would win, but would have to pay for in signifiant $$.
Which reminds me: someone told me that FASA had by some means or other
lost or signed away the rights to produce merchandise (T-shirts,
posters, etc., but not sourcebooks) with images of the Mad Cat/Timber
Wolf. This sounds doubtful to me, but I thought I'd ask and see if their
was any truth to it.
Ken
On 6 Feb 1997 fasa...@aol.com wrote:
> In article <32F93E...@kdsi.net>, "Leigh \"Mad Dog\" Brunk"
> <ba...@kdsi.net> writes:
>
> >Harmony Gold made Robotech, the American cartoon version of several
> >Japanimation series. Playmates made Robotech toys. Both are American
> >companies, bullying FASA, another American company, into not using art
> >that wasn't even theirs to begin with. Robotech is a translation drawn
> >from three different series by two different Japanese studios. My
> >understanding is that FASA had permission from the original Japanese
> >studios to use their art, but since Harmony Gold and Playmates have the
> >official US Rights to that material, FASA has to honour their US
> >copyright. Isn't international law FUN?!?
>
> FASA license for the images applies to the US. FASA has elected to
> remove the images to avoid further costly litigation, which they believe
> they would win, but would have to pay for in signifiant $$.
>
Is it safe to say that you support the "loser pays" idea of civil law that
has been going around, Tom?
Ken'
Ken
On 6 Feb 1997 fasa...@aol.com wrote:
> In article <32F738...@kdsi.net>, "Leigh \"Mad Dog\" Brunk"
> <ba...@kdsi.net> writes:
>
> >
> >Being an anime nut par excellence, I am surprised that anybody would
> >defend Harmony Gold at all. Their "Robotech" series is nothing but three
> >completely different unrelated stories cut and spliced together by an
> >American studio who wanted to market a Japanimation cartoon without all
> >the sex. Nice story, but to say that those mecha picts that FASA
> >licensed legally from the original studios rightfully "belong" to
> >Harmony Gold is like doing a colour by numbers painting of the Mona Lisa
> >and saying it's your original work. Maybe FASA should hire better
> >lawyers.
>
> FASA's lawyers are quite excellent. They are also expensive, hence the
> problem. I suppose we could get cheaper lawyers... :)
>
Just pay their way through Law School and then force them to work for you
for years on end for only room and board. You know, that was how this
country was built. ;)
Ken'
Robert Holland
> Sure they're in the readouts we have, but they aren't in the card game and
> won't be in any future computer games, that's what annoys me.
If you're really desperate to put your fave 'Mechs in the card game, I
knew some folks in high school who used to take Common M:TG cards and
paste comic-book pictures and hand-written text onto them. For the most
part, the local gamers allowed their use in non-tournament games,
provided they weren't supremely munchy (interestingly, hardly any were).
It's not perfect, but this could be done in friendly-type games.
As for the computer games, the outlook there is brighter. Look up the
New Avalon Institute of Science at http://nais.annex.com. Among other
cool things, they've got a custom patch that allows you to drive a IS
Marauder, Thunderbolt, Blackjack or Savannah Master hovercraft in Mercs.
A friend told me that there is a totally undocumented (and very
difficult to use) program on the Mercs CD that will translate 3D Studio
models into game-usable 'Mech models. Anyone know anything about this?
Jason Ash
fasa...@aol.com wrote:
>
> In article <32F738...@kdsi.net>, "Leigh \"Mad Dog\" Brunk"
> <ba...@kdsi.net> writes:
>
> >
> >Being an anime nut par excellence, I am surprised that anybody would
> >defend Harmony Gold at all. Their "Robotech" series is nothing but three
> >completely different unrelated stories cut and spliced together by an
> >American studio who wanted to market a Japanimation cartoon without all
> >the sex. Nice story, but to say that those mecha picts that FASA
> >licensed legally from the original studios rightfully "belong" to
> >Harmony Gold is like doing a colour by numbers painting of the Mona Lisa
> >and saying it's your original work. Maybe FASA should hire better
> >lawyers.
>
> FASA's lawyers are quite excellent. They are also expensive, hence the
> problem. I suppose we could get cheaper lawyers... :)
>
> FASA Interactive
Yeah, and then we'd get to watch FASA get eaten alive by other
companies....
--
Jason A.
->They've got us surrounded again, the poor bastards.
-> General Creighton W. Adams
->Neo-Taoist-Techno-Pagan I worship the holy Motherboard
George Macoukji
On 6 Feb 1997 15:26:13 GMT, fasa...@aol.com wrote:
<snip>
>FASA license for the images applies to the US. FASA has elected to
>remove the images to avoid further costly litigation, which they believe
>they would win, but would have to pay for in signifiant $$.
>
>Tom Dowd
>FASA Interactive
Why not go through with the litigation, then make the other company
pay for your lawyers through compensatory and punitive dmages?
<wicked grin> I believe there are solid legal precedents for this ...
[Note: I am NOT a lawyer, so don't quote me in court! :-) ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Adrian Wolf, House of Spoint
Nova Captain of the Tisiphone
Supernova Second, 16th Battle Cluster, Gamma Galaxy, Clan Wolf Touman
Leigh Mad Dog Brunk
On 6 Feb 1997 04:57:02 -0700, The Unsinkable Camille Klein
<cap...@primenet.com> wrote:
>The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Leigh \"Mad Dog\"
>Brunk to say:
>
>[Gods I hate Web-browser/newsreaders]
>
># Harmony Gold made Robotech, the American cartoon version of several
># Japanimation series. Playmates made Robotech toys. Both are American
># companies, bullying FASA, another American company, into not using art
># that wasn't even theirs to begin with. Robotech is a translation drawn
># from three different series by two different Japanese studios. My
># understanding is that FASA had permission from the original Japanese
># studios to use their art, but since Harmony Gold and Playmates have the
># official US Rights to that material, FASA has to honour their US
># copyright. Isn't international law FUN?!?
>
>FASA still has the rights to use it. They had the rights before Harmony
>Gold got the rights to release the anime on video here in the
>US--therefore Harmony Gold has not a leg to stand on. Please, stop
>spreading false information.
>
># Yet another senseless rambling by...:
>
>[html deleted--gods, get Agent willya?]
>
>--Camille.
>
>--
> All unsolicited commercial e-mail coming to this account is subject to a
> service charge of $250 per piece of mail. Sending any UCE to this
> account constitutes acceptance of these terms.
> http://www.primenet.com/~capella/mob.html
> Death to Playmates and Harmony Gold!
I just got Agent, looked up my old posts, and couldn't agree more with
your assessments of MIME and browser news clients. I've an Excedrin
headache from all the ">" rubbish and such. As for the false info, I
did a bit of research and would like to apologise for my last
erroneous posting. (Well, the last two sentences where I swallowed a
Reebok anyway ^_^ ) Playmates in particular deserves to lose much
business over this "Let's threaten them with expensive lawsuits so
they'll do what we want" corporate schoolground crap. Anyway,
thank-you Camilla for pointing out my errors so that I could quickly
correct them, and for turning me onto this Agent programme! Bloody
Fiendish Flouridators and Elders of Zion anyway, hehe.
Yet another senseless rambling by...:
Leigh "Mad Dog" Brunk <mailto:giant...@geocities.com>
On second thought, a MIME is a pretty damned GOOD thing to waste!
Leigh Mad Dog Brunk
On Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:06:29 -0800, Ken <ez05...@peseta.ucdavis.edu>
wrote:
>On 6 Feb 1997 fasa...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> In article <32F738...@kdsi.net>, "Leigh \"Mad Dog\" Brunk"
>> <ba...@kdsi.net> writes:
>>
>> >
>> >Being an anime nut par excellence, I am surprised that anybody would
>> >defend Harmony Gold at all. Their "Robotech" series is nothing but three
>> >completely different unrelated stories cut and spliced together by an
>> >American studio who wanted to market a Japanimation cartoon without all
>> >the sex. Nice story, but to say that those mecha picts that FASA
>> >licensed legally from the original studios rightfully "belong" to
>> >Harmony Gold is like doing a colour by numbers painting of the Mona Lisa
>> >and saying it's your original work. Maybe FASA should hire better
>> >lawyers.
>>
>> FASA's lawyers are quite excellent. They are also expensive, hence the
>> problem. I suppose we could get cheaper lawyers... :)
>>
>Just pay their way through Law School and then force them to work for you
>for years on end for only room and board. You know, that was how this
>country was built. ;)
>
>Ken'
>
My biggest flaw, especially when I'm writing about someting that ticks
me off, is that I tend to write exactly one sentence more than I need
to. Sorry about the lawyers jab, it was uncalled for and quite trite
of me. Now, better calculators for the vehicle designers, there's a
thought... ^_^
Perpetually caught chewing on my Reeboks of late,
Leigh "Mad Dog" Brunk
giant...@geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/5939
fasa...@aol.com
In article
<Pine.GSO.3.95.97020...@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu>, Ken
<ez05...@peseta.ucdavis.edu> writes:
>Is it safe to say that you support the "loser pays" idea of civil law
that
>has been going around, Tom?
Sure, assuming you have the cash to stay in all the way to the end...
Tom Dowd
FASA Interactive
fasa...@aol.com
In article <32FA90...@pop.uky.edu>, Robert Holland
<rmh...@pop.uky.edu> writes:
>Out of sheer curiosity, Tom, how much do you estimate the costs would
>be?
Really really hard to say, since it all depends on the number of motions,
continuances (sp?),
etc. filed. Easily mid to high six figures or better.
Tom Dowd
FASA Interactive
fasa...@aol.com
In article <32FA91...@pop.uky.edu>, Robert Holland
<rmh...@pop.uky.edu> writes:
>Which reminds me: someone told me that FASA had by some means or other
>lost or signed away the rights to produce merchandise (T-shirts,
>posters, etc., but not sourcebooks) with images of the Mad Cat/Timber
>Wolf. This sounds doubtful to me, but I thought I'd ask and see if their
>was any truth to it.
Not true. :)
Tom Dowd
FASA Interactive
aston...@aol.com
>Is it safe to say that you support the "loser pays" idea of civil law
that
>has been going around, Tom?
Personally, I like the Ancient Graecian method (at least Athenian). If
the person who brings the suit before the court does not get a certain
percentage of the votes he pays a HEFTY fine. (equivalent to the wages of
a skilled artisan for about 5 years, IIRC) You could boost that up for
companies, as those were for 1 person vs 1 person civil suits, and since
each member of the prosecution paid said fine.
"If you want to carry a hungry weasel in your pocket, its your business."
- Binbiniqegabenik, in Tad William's The Dragonbone Chair
Andrew Stoner
The Sooper-Dooper HV-Ultra Munckin/Cardinal of Munch
Ken
On 7 Feb 1997 fasa...@aol.com wrote:
> In article <32FA90...@pop.uky.edu>, Robert Holland
> <rmh...@pop.uky.edu> writes:
>
> >Out of sheer curiosity, Tom, how much do you estimate the costs would
> >be?
>
> Really really hard to say, since it all depends on the number of motions,
> continuances (sp?),
> etc. filed. Easily mid to high six figures or better.
>
So what's the problem? That's less than your salary, right? :)
Ken'
Jon Ivars
On Thu, 6 Feb 1997, Michael Kelly wrote:
> [1]Hmmm... artists were employed to provide illustrations for the all the
> mechs in the card-game and FASA willnot/cannot, for legal reasons, use the
> artwork they rightfully licensed... anyone else spot a missed opportunity
> here?
You are not suggesting that somebody should scan a mech card, are you?
And then pasting in another scanned pic of a dropped mech? Not to talk
about using a graphics program to modify the stats so they fit the ones
you get when using my conversion rules? Worst of all would of course be
to put pics of these modified cards on a website for all to copy and
print. Just think what would happen, people would be glueing them onto
their Resource cards next! I mean that's just terrible, terrible I tell you.
Hint hint... ;) ;) ;)
Star Captain Jon 'Gauss Bear' Ivars #_#
Http://www.abo.fi/~jivars/gb.htm o~^O^~o
Gawd! My sigs are getting smaller?! _/^\_
Marcus Taylor
aston...@aol.com wrote:
: >Is it safe to say that you support the "loser pays" idea of civil law
: that
: >has been going around, Tom?
: Personally, I like the Ancient Graecian method (at least Athenian). If
: the person who brings the suit before the court does not get a certain
: percentage of the votes he pays a HEFTY fine. (equivalent to the wages of
: a skilled artisan for about 5 years, IIRC) You could boost that up for
: companies, as those were for 1 person vs 1 person civil suits, and since
: each member of the prosecution paid said fine.
I *HEARTILY* AGREE: one of America's few flaws is it's "sue 'em,
and think after" mentality; this variation of "unlawful prosecution"
would SERIOUSLY cut down on -nusiance suits- the bane of the US legal
system...
True, it's frighten some to NOT prosecute, but in that case they
should just *prepare* their case *better*; get to the point where they're
reasonably confident of winning. And it should be ONE year's income;
this could apply to corporations too; one year's income is ALL their
revenues...>:)
eMpTy, who thinks it's Contempt of Court to -waste-the-court's-time- with
a personal vendetta etc.
--
Marcus "eMpTy" Taylor, <obk...@infonet.st-john's.nf.ca>
AKA Hpt. Ollwyn B. Kavanagh, CO Kavanagh's Killers
___/=*=*=\___/=*=*=\___ - this quote under renvoation; please stay tuned!:)
"Last to die gets to dig the graves!" - me
ChrisP
Mad dog barked:
>Anyway,thank-you Camilla for pointing out my errors so that I could quickly
>correct them,
Camilla? Camilla??!?!?
Godmother, are YOU the one who broke up Chuck and Di???
Say it ain't so...
Chris
MoB Boss
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced ChrisP to say:
# Mad dog barked:
# >Anyway,thank-you Camilla for pointing out my errors so that I could quickly
# >correct them,
# Camilla? Camilla??!?!?
# Godmother, are YOU the one who broke up Chuck and Di???
# Say it ain't so...
Oh please--Camille Parker-Bowles is better-looking than I am, IMHO.
Besides, she's a helluva lot older than I.
Ken
On 11 Feb 1997, The Unsinkable Camille Klein wrote:
> The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced ChrisP to say:
>
> # Mad dog barked:
>
> # >Anyway,thank-you Camilla for pointing out my errors so that I could quickly
> # >correct them,
>
> # Camilla? Camilla??!?!?
>
> # Godmother, are YOU the one who broke up Chuck and Di???
>
> # Say it ain't so...
>
> Oh please--Camille Parker-Bowles is better-looking than I am, IMHO.
I doubt it. She is/was going out with Chuck, not exactly Mr. GQ.
Besides, she has two last names....
> Besides, she's a helluva lot older than I.
>
and richer....
Ken'
Denham Hardman
Anakin wrote:
>
> Whatever those rats at Harmony Gold and Playmates say, I will keep on
> playing with my beloved MAD-3R Marauder. And that's what all of us, Btech
> fans should do, we shouldn't care if the original designs don't appear in
> any more Tech Readouts, 'cause we all have the originals (or don't we?)
> and I still haven't been visited by a police telling me to stop playing
> with that 'COPYRIGHTEDBYTHEJAPANESEDESIGNS'. So let's go on with Btech,
> it's the only thing that matters...
>
> Anakin Leonov, Kaeh Demons CO
Actually, I thought I got busted once. I was playing with a large
group of people in my basement the other day and everyone wanted to use
the original designs. There was of course the one little guy who kept
whining how they were Not Allowed tm and stuff but everyone ignored him.
He took a Mauler because it was Fasa Approved tm. Anyway, after a few
hours of playing, right when the sugar high from the Pepsi was just
kicking in, a local swat team burst into the room. They were quite
good. They didn't talk at all, they just started ruffling through
things. The little guy burst into tears and started babbling about how
he tried to stop us and all. To make a long, pointless story shorter,
the swat team was just checking the mattresses to make sure that we
hadn't ripped the tags off. Routine check they assured us. The little
guy insisted that they do something about the mechs we were doing so I
asked the Swat Team guy if there was any problem. He said "No, We
really don't care what mechs you use. Just don't expect to see them in
any new products."
That is what they told me so I am going to keep using which ever ones I
want. And that little guy isn't allowed to come over anymore.
Denham (The)
Richard Kuh-nig-hut
Denham Hardman wrote:
> Actually, I thought I got busted once. I was playing with a large
> group of people in my basement the other day and everyone wanted to use
> the original designs. There was of course the one little guy who kept
> whining how they were Not Allowed tm and stuff but everyone ignored him.
> He took a Mauler because it was Fasa Approved tm. Anyway, after a few
> hours of playing, right when the sugar high from the Pepsi was just
> kicking in, a local swat team burst into the room. They were quite
> good. They didn't talk at all, they just started ruffling through
> things. The little guy burst into tears and started babbling about how
> he tried to stop us and all. To make a long, pointless story shorter,
> the swat team was just checking the mattresses to make sure that we
<snip to make the quoted post more confusing>
Gee, you know, it's just like that time the 101rst dropped (literally)
in to fine me for an overdue library book. All the Marauders were in
the repair box, but we had a Rifleman _RIGHT_ there in the open.
-Richard, tired of all this, and going to go see what miniatures he can
legitimally rip off.. (Don't ask)
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
I've been steadily amassing a collection of various minis of the Original
14 and any IIC variations. :) I also have some glow-in-the-dark paint (2
jars of it) that I've slated for use to paint, er....certain letters on
each mini (one letter per mini). Mind you, the letters will only show up
in a darkened room, but if you pay attention (and if I decide to go over
then with neon paint), you'll notice that they spell out....
FUCK HARMONY GOLD
Pardon my language, please. Unless of course you work for Harmony
Gold--in which case you can drop dead. :P
Danny Frost (Dr. Doom)
The Unsinkable Camille Klein wrote:
>
> 14 and any IIC variations. :) I also have some glow-in-the-dark paint (2
> jars of it) that I've slated for use to paint, er....certain letters on
> each mini (one letter per mini). Mind you, the letters will only show up
> in a darkened room, but if you pay attention (and if I decide to go over
> then with neon paint), you'll notice that they spell out....
>
> FUCK HARMONY GOLD
>
> Pardon my language, please. Unless of course you work for Harmony
> Gold--in which case you can drop dead. :P
>
care. Just a few outspoken members who do not really have a grasp of
the reality of what they argueing over. For example, your language is
equal or "worse" then mine, and heck, probally average more per note
then I do, do to the fact that I post more then most people.
But then again, it's fine with me.
Ian Homeyard
> You do realize that the majority of the people here don't really
>care. Just a few outspoken members who do not really have a grasp of
>the reality of what they argueing over. For example, your language is
>equal or "worse" then mine, and heck, probally average more per note
>then I do, do to the fact that I post more then most people.
>
> But then again, it's fine with me.
Doom, you post more then most automailers. :)
o-------------------------------------------------o
| Ian Homeyard Home...@1USA.com |
o-------------------------------------------------o
| aka Col. Ryan "Ghost" Furey, |
| Owner and CO of The Death Stalkers Merc Company |
o-------------------------------------------------o
| It's not the size of the unit, it's the tatics. |
o-------------------------------------------------o
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Ian Homeyard to say:
[crap from Dr. Doof deleted]
# Doom, you post more then most automailers. :)
Is one of the reasons why I killfiled him. If he decides to be civil and
not be boorish, then I'll unkillfile him.
--Camille. Reformed Boor.
Ken
On 14 Feb 1997, The Unsinkable Camille Klein wrote:
> The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Ian Homeyard to say:
>
> [crap from Dr. Doof deleted]
>
> # Doom, you post more then most automailers. :)
>
> Is one of the reasons why I killfiled him. If he decides to be civil and
> not be boorish, then I'll unkillfile him.
>
Gee, you can raise those who have been killfiled? You are indeed
powerful.
> --Camille. Reformed Boor.
>
Not Boer?
Ken'
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Ken to say:
# Gee, you can raise those who have been killfiled? You are indeed
# powerful.
Is what you get when you're Ukko's Enforcer<tm>. ;)
# > --Camille. Reformed Boor.
# >
# Not Boer?
Neg--not an Afrikaner bone in my body. (NO JOKES)
--Camille.
--
"Camille Klein. Camille, like the Hurricane. Klein, like in Calvin.
Named for one, not related to the other. Have a nice day."
http://www.primenet.com/~capella/mob.html
Death to Playmates and Harmony Gold! BOYCOTT DATABASIX!
Ian Homeyard
On 14 Feb 1997 01:48:02 -0700, The Unsinkable Camille Klein
<cap...@primenet.com> wrote:
>The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Ian Homeyard to say:
>
>[crap from Dr. Doof deleted]
>
># Doom, you post more then most automailers. :)
>
>Is one of the reasons why I killfiled him. If he decides to be civil and
>not be boorish, then I'll unkillfile him.
>
I got used to him on Prodigy. He ws better then, so I'll chalk it up
to the stress of college, and the lack of a coherent place in
(electronic society).
(Not being veiwed as a god by newbies probibly has something to do
with it too. 8) )
Prime
On 15 Feb 1997 08:49:01 -0700, The Unsinkable Camille Klein
<cap...@primenet.com> wrote:
># > --Camille. Reformed Boor.
># >
># Not Boer?
>
>Neg--not an Afrikaner bone in my body. (NO JOKES)
Ah, C'mon... there's a pun there just WAITING to be told.....
> Death to Playmates and Harmony Gold! BOYCOTT DATABASIX!
Who or whom are Databasix?
Leigh Mad Dog Brunk
On 11 Feb 1997 06:17:59 GMT, csm...@execpc.com (ChrisP) wrote:
>
>
>Mad dog barked:
Woof. Woof-woof! Arf! ^_^
>
>Chris
>MoB Boss
The Unsinkable Camille Klein
The Fiendish Flouridators and the Elders of Zion forced Prime to say:
# > Death to Playmates and Harmony Gold! BOYCOTT DATABASIX!
# Who or whom are Databasix?
The CEO of this company has been plaguing the news.admin.net-abuse.*
froups for some time now with abusive posts--and I mean ABUSIVE. Anything
I've ever posted here pales in comparison. He has refused to discuss
anything rationally, preferring to come back with nothing but insults,
comments about the other person's intelligence and/or parentage, and so
on. He says nothing constructive, and frankly he's a jerk from hell.
--Camille.
--
"Camille Klein. Camille, like the Hurricane. Klein, like in Calvin.
Named for one, not related to the other. Have a nice day."
http://www.primenet.com/~capella/mob.html