[GUNDAM:] Gundam to Battletech Conversions
Prabal Nandy
Finally, to the reason (partly) of why I ask so many Gundam questions: I
have been writing a large body of rules that would allow for the creation of
Gundam-like mecha for the Battletech system of mecha gaming. Yep, you heard
it right. Anyway, this is what I have so far:
Beam Sabres
Beam Bayonet (i.e., beam sabres out of the barrel of beam rifles)
Heavy Beam Sabre (Zeta Gundam, beam cannon + sabre modes)
Heat Hawk (ZAK)
Hover Feet (Dom)
Jump Packs (0083 ZAKs)
Core Fighters (Original Gundam, some others too)
Psychommu Unit (I don't know which mech specifically)
Psychoframe System (Nu Gundam)
Bit Drone (Elmeth)
Funnel Drone (Jagd Doga, Sazabi)
Fin Funnel (Nu Gundam)
I-Field Generator (Lots of MAs)
Beam Sheild (V Gundam)
Can anyone think of any 'special' piece of gundamesque material I have
missed? (I already have Shields and some beam weapons (lasers))
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rhee kie-hyock
>Hello All!
>Finally, to the reason (partly) of why I ask so many Gundam questions: I
>have been writing a large body of rules that would allow for the creation of
>Gundam-like mecha for the Battletech system of mecha gaming. Yep, you heard
>it right. Anyway, this is what I have so far:
>Beam Sabres
>Beam Bayonet (i.e., beam sabres out of the barrel of beam rifles)
>Heavy Beam Sabre (Zeta Gundam, beam cannon + sabre modes)
>Heat Hawk (ZAK)
>Hover Feet (Dom)
>Jump Packs (0083 ZAKs)
>Core Fighters (Original Gundam, some others too)
>Psychommu Unit (I don't know which mech specifically)
>Psychoframe System (Nu Gundam)
>Bit Drone (Elmeth)
>Funnel Drone (Jagd Doga, Sazabi)
>Fin Funnel (Nu Gundam)
>I-Field Generator (Lots of MAs)
>Beam Sheild (V Gundam)
>Can anyone think of any 'special' piece of gundamesque material I have
>missed? (I already have Shields and some beam weapons (lasers))
Some of the mechs in Z, like the Rick Dias and the Hyakushiki, could
spray glue from their hands (from their finger joints, specifically).
There's also the quasi-psychomu funnels called incoms, which have
a trailing wire that connects them to the host MS.
If you have a heat hawk, might as well include the heat saber, which
isn't a beam saber, but a super heated rod of metal.
--
Keith "Tails" Rhee | A boss says "Go."
voice: (217) 333-7843 | A leader says "Let's go."
email: kr...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu | -- E.M. Kelly
Prabal Nandy
> Some of the mechs in Z, like the Rick Dias and the Hyakushiki, could
> spray glue from their hands (from their finger joints, specifically).
They spray glue from their hands?
OKAAaaaaay! I think I can safely leave that out of the rules.
> There's also the quasi-psychomu funnels called incoms, which have
Yeah, I know about Incoms. See, I can't imagine them going out much
farther than a hex from the mech (30meters-60meters)... Therefore I don't
see them as being particularly useful... but I might go ahead and include
them. It's the shield incoms that I'm worried about.
> If you have a heat hawk, might as well include the heat saber, which
> isn't a beam saber, but a super heated rod of metal.
The Heat sabre (a la Dom) is basically included with the Heat Hawk, I
would think.
rhee kie-hyock
> They spray glue from their hands?
> OKAAaaaaay! I think I can safely leave that out of the rules.
Don't diss this. Spray it at the enemy's main camera or joints,
thus disabling them.
> Yeah, I know about Incoms. See, I can't imagine them going out much
>farther than a hex from the mech (30meters-60meters)... Therefore I don't
>see them as being particularly useful... but I might go ahead and include
>them. It's the shield incoms that I'm worried about.
Include the shield incoms, then.
> The Heat sabre (a la Dom) is basically included with the Heat Hawk, I
>would think.
The heat hawk is an axe, not really a saber... the heat saber is pretty
long, too, even longer than a normal beam saber at times.
ed kwon
pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu writes:
>Can anyone think of any 'special' piece of gundamesque material I have
>missed? (I already have Shields and some beam weapons (lasers))
Don't forget INCOM(Gundam ZZ, Gundam Sentinel) units and flying
platforms(Z, ZZ, Char's Counterattack), and full armor units(ZZ Gundam
and other variations.
Eddie Kwon
R M Miyashiro
Prabal Nandy <pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> wrote:
>Hello All!
>
>Finally, to the reason (partly) of why I ask so many Gundam questions: I
>have been writing a large body of rules that would allow for the creation of
>Gundam-like mecha for the Battletech system of mecha gaming. Yep, you heard
>it right. Anyway, this is what I have so far:
>
>Beam Sabres
>Beam Bayonet (i.e., beam sabres out of the barrel of beam rifles)
>Heavy Beam Sabre (Zeta Gundam, beam cannon + sabre modes)
>Heat Hawk (ZAK)
>Hover Feet (Dom)
>Jump Packs (0083 ZAKs)
>Core Fighters (Original Gundam, some others too)
>Psychommu Unit (I don't know which mech specifically)
>Psychoframe System (Nu Gundam)
>Bit Drone (Elmeth)
>Funnel Drone (Jagd Doga, Sazabi)
>Fin Funnel (Nu Gundam)
>I-Field Generator (Lots of MAs)
>Beam Sheild (V Gundam)
>
>Can anyone think of any 'special' piece of gundamesque material I have
>missed? (I already have Shields and some beam weapons (lasers))
yeah, the Gemark's Mother Funnels.
The biosensor (zeta, The O)
Beam Naginata's (lancers)
VSBR/GBRD
Beam Roters.
Minofski Crafts.
Incom.
hmmm... I'll look for more.
-Tokio D Randall
yazan @ #anime!
Stainless Steel Rat
ed> Don't forget INCOM(Gundam ZZ, Gundam Sentinel) units
The Double-Zeta doesn't have Incoms, only the S and Ex-S Gundams (and
possibly others in Gundam Sentinel).
ed> and flying platforms (Z, ZZ, Char's Counterattack),
waveriders
--
Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> | On the seventh day the Lord said: I'm
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | pooped. You build the theme park.
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |
Prabal Nandy
>yeah, the Gemark's Mother Funnels.
What are these? Describe!
>The biosensor (zeta, The O)
What is this? Describe!
>Beam Naginata's (lancers)
What is this? Describe!
>VSBR/GBRD
What IS this? Describe!
>Beam Roters.
Huh?
>Minofski Crafts.
I need battlespace for this one... I.e., I was also thinking about doing
the RX-78GP-03P dendrobium... as a Dropship!
>Incom.
Basically already under 'funnel'... however, no one has ever given me a
range on an Incom.
Prabal Nandy
> Don't diss this. Spray it at the enemy's main camera or joints,
> thus disabling them.
Hrum... I dunno... I'll think about it, but it doesn't seem like it would
be too useful in a pitched battle (which is what BTech simulates). Maybe
while sneaking around etc...
> Include the shield incoms, then.
Ok, I figured out how to do this. BTW, what is the RANGE of these incoms?
> The heat hawk is an axe, not really a saber... the heat saber is pretty
> long, too, even longer than a normal beam saber at times.
Right, but BTech doesn't differenciate between swords and hatchets, at
least, till 3050... Therefore I can add a line saying the same rules for
Heat Hawks apply to Heat Sabres...
Can someone post the Btech sword and claw rules, if they exist?
rhee kie-hyock
>>>>>> "ed" == ed kwon <zgu...@umich.edu> writes:
>ed> Don't forget INCOM(Gundam ZZ, Gundam Sentinel) units
>The Double-Zeta doesn't have Incoms, only the S and Ex-S Gundams (and
>possibly others in Gundam Sentinel).
He meant it was featured in the _show_ ZZ, not that the ZZ had incoms
itself. The Psycho Gundam Mk II in ZZ features reflector bits, which
are basically reflector incoms. ZZ also had the MS Doven Wolf which
had beam incoms.
rhee kie-hyock
> Ok, I figured out how to do this. BTW, what is the RANGE of these incoms?
Range? If it's a weapon incom, should be pretty much the same as a
funnel, perhaps slightly smaller range, but not too much of a difference.
If it's a reflector incom (defense), they'd do best to stick close to
the host MS anyway.
I don't really know the range for these things, though... in the movie
CCA, the funnels Quess used to knock out the dummy ship during training
went quite a bit out, not really close range anymore.
Prabal Nandy
> He meant it was featured in the _show_ ZZ, not that the ZZ had incoms
> itself. The Psycho Gundam Mk II in ZZ features reflector bits, which
> are basically reflector incoms. ZZ also had the MS Doven Wolf which
> had beam incoms.
Actually, you might be happy to know that I do have reflector bits working
in my system. But reflector INCOMS exist as well? What does INCOM stand for,
BTW?
Geez, there's just too effing many Gundam mechs out there with wierd and
unique weaponry.
Prabal Nandy
> Range? If it's a weapon incom, should be pretty much the same as a
> funnel, perhaps slightly smaller range, but not too much of a difference.
> If it's a reflector incom (defense), they'd do best to stick close to
Well, the reason why I ask is because of the fact that INCOMs are, (By
definition?) wire-guided attack/defense drones, right? Wire-guided, they
must have some kind of range limitation based on the amount of wire it has,
right?
In CCA, however, Funnels are self-powered and therefore have roughly
unlimited range...
WAIT, did you say Quess took out a SHIP with funnels? No way!
213...@hydra.maths.unsw.edu.au
After reading through all of the post that built up here while I was on
hols, I realised the reason why most people hate clans the way that they do,
and it comes down to lazyness.......
(ducks and dodges all the flames coming my way... :) )
Think about it, in 2075 and 3025, the battlemech was the King of the
battlefield (unless ganged up apon by large numbers). So it basically came down
to mech on mech combat. But then along came the clans. You try one on one with
these guys and they'll rip you a new asshole..... So here is where the lazyness
come is. Most people can't be bothered to learn new tactics, or introduce the
other people of the battlefield into their game. I mean in one of the books
the mentioned that if 4 vechiles could equal 1 omni in firepower, then the IS
would win through shear numbers. So that is how you must win if you play IS.
Use tactics and the other guys on the field as a intergrated unit with your
mechs, and you will kick ass!
Later,
Matthew.
rhee kie-hyock
>>yeah, the Gemark's Mother Funnels.
> What are these? Describe!
Large Funnels that can deploy smaller funnels? I forgot. ^^;;
>>The biosensor (zeta, The O)
> What is this? Describe!
Kinda like a psychomu unit, but less sophisticated. Can still
anticipate the pilot's next actions to a limited degree. Featured in
the cockpit of the Zeta.
>>Beam Naginata's (lancers)
> What is this? Describe!
Beam Javelin.
>>VSBR/GBRD
> What IS this? Describe!
Variable Speed Beam Rifle. Can change the speed for either longer
range or greater beam density/power. Featured in F-91 and onwards.
>>Beam Roters.
> Huh?
Me too. Huh? ^^;;
>>Minofski Crafts.
> I need battlespace for this one... I.e., I was also thinking about doing
>the RX-78GP-03P dendrobium... as a Dropship!
Hehehe ^^;;
Minofski Craft would fall under a hovering system.
>>Incom.
> Basically already under 'funnel'... however, no one has ever given me a
>range on an Incom.
The range isn't terribly different. The funnels may not be physically
bound to the host MS, but since they have their power _broadcasted_
to them, they can't stray far away. Incoms have wires only for
control purposes on non-newtype machines (non newtypes can't reach out
with their minds to the funnels). You know that even several modern
day weaponry use trailer wires and that these can stretch out a
considerable length.
So a funnel and an incom should pretty much have the same effective range,
perhaps the incom falls a slight bit short. A bit may be able to travel
further since it has its own power source.
Prabal Nandy
> Large Funnels that can deploy smaller funnels? I forgot. ^^;;
Huh? Why? Why not just launch a whole slew of regular funnels in the first
place?
> Kinda like a psychomu unit, but less sophisticated. Can still
> anticipate the pilot's next actions to a limited degree. Featured in
> the cockpit of the Zeta.
So what does the Biosensor actually DO? Control funnels? Enhanced
interface? What? BTW< I refuse to incorporate too much 'pilot-specific'
newtype stuff into my conversion...
>>>Beam Naginata's (lancers)
> Beam Javelin.
Sounds dumb. I thought Beam Sabres turned off after being thrown...
Anyway, it's very EASY to 'make' with my rules, just stick two Beam
Sabres together, Voila!
>>>VSBR/GBRD
> Variable Speed Beam Rifle. Can change the speed for either longer
> range or greater beam density/power. Featured in F-91 and onwards.
We already have that in Btech... pulse lasers we call them...
> Hehehe ^^;;
> Minofski Craft would fall under a hovering system.
Yah, but they got some funky anti-gravity generator... not the standard
air-driven system of Btech.
>
> The range isn't terribly different. The funnels may not be physically
> bound to the host MS, but since they have their power _broadcasted_
Wait wait wait! Didn't you (or someone) just tell me that Funnels stored
all their energy in capacitors, and would run out after a time? What's this
power-broadcast thing? There's got to be a max range to this! What if
there's an obstacle in the way?
> to them, they can't stray far away. Incoms have wires only for
> control purposes on non-newtype machines (non newtypes can't reach out
Ok.
Stainless Steel Rat
>> yeah, the Gemark's Mother Funnels.
Prabal> What are these? Describe!
They're big fanels that can carry a bunch of standard fanels.
>> The biosensor (zeta, The O)
Prabal> What is this? Describe!
It's a limited form of psycom system, not as powerful, much smaller than a
full psycom, draws less power, and doesn't become imprinted like a full
psycom. It's response time is also somewhat slower, but still faster than
an unaided pilot.
>> Beam Naginata's (lancers)
Prabal> What is this? Describe!
A short beam saber on the end of a pole.
>> VSBR/GBRD
Prabal> What IS this? Describe!
VSBR or Vesper cannon: it's those two pivoting cannon mounted on the back
of the F-91. GBRD: dunnow, probably something similar.
>> Beam Roters.
Prabal> Huh?
Take your beam shield, now make helicopter blades out of it. It's a Victory
Gundam era thing.
>> Minofski Crafts.
Prabal> I need battlespace for this one... I.e., I was also thinking
Prabal> about doing the RX-78GP-03P dendrobium... as a Dropship!
Ewww! I do /not/ want to see the Psycho Gundams... gonna make 'em
jumpships? :)
>> Incom.
Prabal> Basically already under 'funnel'... however, no one has ever
Prabal> given me a range on an Incom.
About a kilometer. Close enough.
--
Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> |"Good, bad... I'm the guy with the gun."
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|--Ashe, "Army of Darkness"
rhee kie-hyock
> Well, the reason why I ask is because of the fact that INCOMs are, (By
>definition?) wire-guided attack/defense drones, right? Wire-guided, they
>must have some kind of range limitation based on the amount of wire it has,
>right?
But my point is, since funnels have their power broadcasted via micro-
waves to them (they only have a capacitor, not a generator), they can't
afford to stray too far, either.
> In CCA, however, Funnels are self-powered and therefore have roughly
>unlimited range...
Are the funnels in CCA self powered? Especially the fin funnels with
their flat shape don't have much in the way of space to house a
generator.
> WAIT, did you say Quess took out a SHIP with funnels? No way!
I said, dummy of a ship. She was training.
That being said, a well placed shot by a funnel can still take out
a ship.
John A. Kilpatrick
> So what does the Biosensor actually DO? Control funnels? Enhanced
>interface? What? BTW< I refuse to incorporate too much 'pilot-specific'
>newtype stuff into my conversion...
Well, then, you're kinda screwed. Most newtype stuff has to be modified to fit
the specific pilot. That's why Rosamina was "made" - so she could use psycho
stuff desined for Four.
> We already have that in Btech... pulse lasers we call them...
But remember, a beam weapon isn't a laser...it's a particle beam. That's why
they have clips.
>>
>> The range isn't terribly different. The funnels may not be physically
>> bound to the host MS, but since they have their power _broadcasted_
> Wait wait wait! Didn't you (or someone) just tell me that Funnels stored
>all their energy in capacitors, and would run out after a time? What's this
>power-broadcast thing? There's got to be a max range to this! What if
>there's an obstacle in the way?
The capacitors can only hold a few shots. The original devices, called "bits"
had small generators, but were much larger. They switched to funnels to make
them smaller. As for range and stuff, remember - these are newtypes. The
usual sort of range, obstacle type things don't apply.
--
******************************John A. Kilpatrick*******************************
*"I gotta fly like a duck.......... | Alternate lyrics for "Back to Paradise" *
* I gotta run like a wounded badger"| from Gundam 0083: StarDust Memory *
*************************jaki...@taco.engr.ucdavis.edu************************
rhee kie-hyock
> So what does the Biosensor actually DO? Control funnels? Enhanced
>interface? What? BTW< I refuse to incorporate too much 'pilot-specific'
>newtype stuff into my conversion...
A biosensor senses biofunctions. ^_^
Make that an enhanced interface.
>>>>VSBR/GBRD
>> Variable Speed Beam Rifle. Can change the speed for either longer
>> range or greater beam density/power. Featured in F-91 and onwards.
> We already have that in Btech... pulse lasers we call them...
Well, you asked. ^_^
>> The range isn't terribly different. The funnels may not be physically
>> bound to the host MS, but since they have their power _broadcasted_
> Wait wait wait! Didn't you (or someone) just tell me that Funnels stored
>all their energy in capacitors, and would run out after a time? What's this
>power-broadcast thing? There's got to be a max range to this! What if
>there's an obstacle in the way?
They have a capacitor to store the power broadcasted to them. I mean,
it needs some kind of buffer since it takes time to convert the incoming
energy to the type of energy the funnel needs (propulsion, beamfire, etc).
And remember, once the propellant runs out, it's dead.
>> to them, they can't stray far away. Incoms have wires only for
>> control purposes on non-newtype machines (non newtypes can't reach out
> Ok.
--
Azaq of Clan Smoke Jaguar
213...@hydra.maths.unsw.EDU.AU () writes:
->
-> After reading through all of the post that built up here while I was on
-> hols, I realised the reason why most people hate clans the way that they
do,
-> and it comes down to lazyness.......
->
-> (ducks and dodges all the flames coming my way... :) )
->
-> Think about it, in 2075 and 3025, the battlemech was the King of the
-> battlefield (unless ganged up apon by large numbers). So it basically came
down
-> to mech on mech combat. But then along came the clans. You try one on one
with
-> these guys and they'll rip you a new asshole..... So here is where the
lazyness
-> come is. Most people can't be bothered to learn new tactics, or introduce
the
-> other people of the battlefield into their game. I mean in one of the books
-> the mentioned that if 4 vechiles could equal 1 omni in firepower, then the
IS
-> would win through shear numbers. So that is how you must win if you play
IS.
-> Use tactics and the other guys on the field as a intergrated unit with your
-> mechs, and you will kick ass!
->
-> Later,
-> Matthew.
->
YESSSSSSS ! ! ! !
Well said and 'nuff said!!! So there!!!!
A.CSJ
rhee kie-hyock
>No, a fanel gets its power from an internal capacitor and small fuel
>storage unit, returning to the controlling MS or MA to recharge/refuel. You
>can't rely on broadcast power with heavy Minovsky particle density. That's
>the original point of the psycom.
I was under the impression that funnels were mostly one shot deals;
haven't heard of them returning to the host MS for resupply. Correct
me if I'm wrong, but there are only a few MS that has funnels that
return, like the Alpha Aziera. They hardly show the funnels return to
the host in the shows.
>Ok, for a matter of perspective, an unfolded fin fanel is as long as a Nu
>Gundam is tall. That's big. A standard fanel is about 1/10 to 1/20 that
>size. There's plenty of room in a fin fanel for generators.
Hmm, now that you put it that way, it might.
Stainless Steel Rat
Prabal> Actually, you might be happy to know that I do have reflector
Prabal> bits working in my system. But reflector INCOMS exist as well? What
Prabal> does INCOM stand for, BTW?
Incom: wire-guided fanel; it's not an acronym as far as I know. Anything a
fanel can do an incom can do.
--
Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> |"Carpe Joltem! (Seize the Caffeine)" --Me
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|
Stainless Steel Rat
>> Large Funnels that can deploy smaller funnels? I forgot. ^^;;
Prabal> Huh? Why? Why not just launch a whole slew of regular funnels in
Prabal> the first place?
This is Double-Zeta we're talking about, where things don't have to make
sense (and often don't). Besides, it looks cool watching them MIRV :).
Prabal> So what does the Biosensor actually DO? Control funnels? Enhanced
Prabal> interface? What? BTW< I refuse to incorporate too much
Prabal> 'pilot-specific' newtype stuff into my conversion...
It's a thought control system, like a psycom; it boost the pilot-mecha
reaction speed. It cannot control fanels or project barriers like a full
psycom or psycho-frame.
BTW, you can't have fanels or bits without a psycom or psycho-frame, and
you can't have a working psycom or psycho-frame without NewTypes.
--
Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> |Stay away from them. They're dangerously
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|volatile, and have a nasty tendency to
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |_not_ stay crispy in milk.
Stainless Steel Rat
rhee> But my point is, since funnels have their power broadcasted via
rhee> micro-waves to them (they only have a capacitor, not a generator),
rhee> they can't afford to stray too far, either.
No, a fanel gets its power from an internal capacitor and small fuel
storage unit, returning to the controlling MS or MA to recharge/refuel. You
can't rely on broadcast power with heavy Minovsky particle density. That's
the original point of the psycom.
>> In CCA, however, Funnels are self-powered and therefore have roughly
>> unlimited range...
rhee> Are the funnels in CCA self powered?
Yes, fin fanels are. They're large enough for it. Standard fanels aren't.
rhee> Especially the fin funnels with their flat shape don't have much in
rhee> the way of space to house a generator.
Ok, for a matter of perspective, an unfolded fin fanel is as long as a Nu
Gundam is tall. That's big. A standard fanel is about 1/10 to 1/20 that
size. There's plenty of room in a fin fanel for generators.
--
Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> |'user' is truely a four-letter word, even
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|in UNIX: /usr
Prabal Nandy
>Well, then, you're kinda screwed. Most newtype stuff has to be modified to fit
>the specific pilot. That's why Rosamina was "made" - so she could use psycho
>stuff desined for Four.
Huh, what's this?
Anyway, in the more realistic situations of Btech such items won't go down
very well... we can MAYBE use them for the MW RPG, but otherwise I'll just
ignore this imprinting thing, and say it's standard for everyone. I never
bought all this newtype stuff o-rama anyway.
>But remember, a beam weapon isn't a laser...it's a particle beam. That's why
>they have clips.
Yah, but for all intents and purposes, I will treat the lasers and PPCs as
the same. The clips is a good idea though, I must add that.
>The capacitors can only hold a few shots. The original devices, called "bits"
>had small generators, but were much larger. They switched to funnels to make
I see... I will include it then.
-Probe
So is there ANY benefit for a funnel to dock to its mother-mech?
rhee kie-hyock
> Biofunctions? Like "Pilot must go to toilet, head back for home!" or
>something like that, just that it knows faster than the pilot himself? "hey!
>Why are we going back?... whoa, yeah! I really gotta go to the potty!"
> Or does it just speed up the mech's 'reflexes'?
Not _those_ functions, ya silly. ^_^ They're supposed to sense what
action the pilot will take, like making a turn to the left/right, fire
or select a weapon, bring up the shield, etc. By sensing those slightly
in advance, the overall response speed is improved. We actually see this in
action very clearly once; when Camille grasps his head and screams in
anguish, the Zeta pulls up the beam rifle and _fires_ shots into space.
Prabal Nandy
> A biosensor senses biofunctions. ^_^
> Make that an enhanced interface.
Biofunctions? Like "Pilot must go to toilet, head back for home!" or
something like that, just that it knows faster than the pilot himself? "hey!
Why are we going back?... whoa, yeah! I really gotta go to the potty!"
Or does it just speed up the mech's 'reflexes'?
> And remember, once the propellant runs out, it's dead.
How much propellant does a regular funnel carry? How long?
Stainless Steel Rat
rhee> I was under the impression that funnels were mostly one shot deals;
rhee> haven't heard of them returning to the host MS for resupply. Correct
rhee> me if I'm wrong, but there are only a few MS that has funnels that
rhee> return, like the Alpha Aziera. They hardly show the funnels return
rhee> to the host in the shows.
The Quebely's, Quebely Mk.II's, and Qunn Mantha's fanels are resuable I
would assume. The Geymalk's may or may not be disposable.
>> Ok, for a matter of perspective, an unfolded fin fanel is as long as a
>> Nu Gundam is tall. That's big. A standard fanel is about 1/10 to 1/20
>> that size. There's plenty of room in a fin fanel for generators.
rhee> Hmm, now that you put it that way, it might.
Oh, yeah, having the models on your desk is wonderful :). BTW, something
very scary is that the 1:100 scale F91 Gundam models (I've got an F90II-L
and an F91) are actually a little bit taller than the 1:144 Double Zeta and
Sentinel Gundam.
--
Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> |"Odds don't matter when Humans want
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|something bad enough." --UHED series 507
Kevin E. Allen
: The bigest probem with that is once more than 1 anything fires at a Clan
: Mech the Clanners like to call a GM (Well on the MUSE but things are
: gettign better) Take the FC there RTC's should have 12 Mechs and 96
: Vehicals going against 5 Clan Mechs (12 Mechs and 36 Vehicals on the
: MUSE) The IS can win with new tactics and use of jamming (If a Jamming
: Mech is in range of the Clan Mechs you can pound them without them being
: able to tell the other clanners if they don't have LOS, even is MUSE
: Terms 48 to 5 is some damn good odds)
: Narsisa Acar Waco Rangers 3056
48 to 5 is obscene odds. Even just the mech comparison, 12 to 5, is
insane. And I really don't want to hear all the bull about technology
difference. Would anyone argue that a Clint is a much stronger mech
than an Archer? Never. But, try running an Archer against _3_ Clints,
and see what happens...
- K. Allen
Prabal Nandy
>> Biofunctions? Like "Pilot must go to toilet, head back for home!" or
> Not _those_ functions, ya silly. ^_^ They're supposed to sense what
> action the pilot will take, like making a turn to the left/right, fire
OK! Those are the kinds of things I can easily incorporate into BTech,
should be no problem at all.. any idea how big this Biosensor thing is
supposed to be anyhow?
> action very clearly once; when Camille grasps his head and screams in
> anguish, the Zeta pulls up the beam rifle and _fires_ shots into space.
Hummm... Now I wonder, this is a kind of questionable technology... it
might be faster, but a little dangerous and unpredictable as well... I mean,
think of Vietnam type mentalities:
Major: "Awl right, you maggot-ridden Mech hogs, kewp awn Marchin'!"
Private: "Yeeesss SSSSIR!" (Grumble Grumble, Oughta kick his butt!)
Suddenly the Private's Biosensor-equipped mech starts firing at the Major!
Frag-time!
What I mean is, it's likely to do unpredicatable things based on taking
the ppilot's feelings too literally, right?
Max Hawk
Well, at least on 3056 one problem is that many clan pilots don't
follow RoE.
Orion Pax
: In article <31bvg8$o...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu> kr...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu (rhee kie-hyock) writes:
: Hummm... Now I wonder, this is a kind of questionable technology... it
: might be faster, but a little dangerous and unpredictable as well... I mean,
: think of Vietnam type mentalities:
: Major: "Awl right, you maggot-ridden Mech hogs, kewp awn Marchin'!"
: Private: "Yeeesss SSSSIR!" (Grumble Grumble, Oughta kick his butt!)
: Suddenly the Private's Biosensor-equipped mech starts firing at the Major!
: Frag-time!
: What I mean is, it's likely to do unpredicatable things based on taking
: the ppilot's feelings too literally, right?
This happens in Macross Plus. One pilot (say Bob) rescues this test pilot
(say Dave) from a diving crash and burn when Dave has some sort of seizure
and messes up the brain link-up with his mech.
Dave didn't like Bob in the first place, and while riding piggy back on
Bob's plane, thinks wouldn't it be cool to punch Bob into the ground. Lo'
and behold, Dave's mech picks up the thought and does it, totally trashing
Bob's plane.
I apologize for the inane naming of the pilots. Couldn't pick them up from
the straight Japanese showing at AX.
Joseph
--
jl...@bonnie.ics.uci.edu | Have you watched Ko Ko Wa GreenWood, Gundam 0083
-------------------------+ Five Star Stories, Record of Lodoss Wars, Yotoden,
Creative 'Ware | Tenchi Miyou, Video Girl Ai, & Dragon Ball Z yet?
II(><)II | If not, watch them! Else, watch them again!
Eric Shafto
: Well, at least on 3056 one problem is that many clan pilots don't
: follow RoE.
Now, that's a troll if ever I've heard one :-)
Akuma
Well, Everybody could do a bit better on RPing...
Me included!
--
______________________________________________________________________________
The above comments are mine and mine only, and anyone who says
otherwise is... wrong.
______________________________________________________________________________
to...@meaddata.com tha...@ddt.eng.uc.edu tha...@uceng.uc.edu
Beware the Dark Side...
______________________________________________________________________________
ed kwon
pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu writes:
>>Well, then, you're kinda screwed. Most newtype stuff has to be
modified to fit
>>the specific pilot. That's why Rosamina was "made" - so she could use
psycho
>>stuff desined for Four.
>
> Huh, what's this?
What he is referreing to is a character from Zeta Gundam: Rosamia
Badame, and artificially created Newtype soldier, more commonly know as a
bio-soldier. She was the pilot of both the Bound Doc mobile armor, and
the Psycho Gundam Mk.II which was merely the rebuilt version of the
Psycho-Gundam Mk. 1. I guess much of the original quasi-psychommu system
in the 1st psycho Gundam was left intact after it's original pilot, Four
Murasame, died in combat saving Camille Vidan. Since this system was
specifically calibrated towards Four's brainwave patterns, her engrams
were implanted into Rosamia's brain so she suffered from schizophrenia
and mental instability from uncontrollable flipping of personalitites,
which unfortunately led to her demise, althought the Psycho Gundam Mk. II
makes another appearance in Gundam ZZ approx. 1 year later , but this
time it is piloted by the Newtype clone Pritzu, and is fully equipped
with the reflector bits(ouch).
Eddie Kwon
rhee kie-hyock
> OK! Those are the kinds of things I can easily incorporate into BTech,
>should be no problem at all.. any idea how big this Biosensor thing is
>supposed to be anyhow?
No clue.
>> action very clearly once; when Camille grasps his head and screams in
>> anguish, the Zeta pulls up the beam rifle and _fires_ shots into space.
> Hummm... Now I wonder, this is a kind of questionable technology... it
>might be faster, but a little dangerous and unpredictable as well... I mean,
>think of Vietnam type mentalities:
>Major: "Awl right, you maggot-ridden Mech hogs, kewp awn Marchin'!"
>Private: "Yeeesss SSSSIR!" (Grumble Grumble, Oughta kick his butt!)
>Suddenly the Private's Biosensor-equipped mech starts firing at the Major!
>Frag-time!
> What I mean is, it's likely to do unpredicatable things based on taking
>the ppilot's feelings too literally, right?
Take into account Camille's _tremendous_ newtype abilities. He was
also emotionally very unstable. It takes a LOT of energy and psychic
ability to pull a stunt like that (and Camille didn't want to fire
the gun). This wasn't grumbling about something, it was the anguish
caused by hundreds of deaths.
The biosensor in itself isn't to blame. ^_^
rhee kie-hyock
>This happens in Macross Plus. One pilot (say Bob) rescues this test pilot
>(say Dave) from a diving crash and burn when Dave has some sort of seizure
>and messes up the brain link-up with his mech.
>Dave didn't like Bob in the first place, and while riding piggy back on
>Bob's plane, thinks wouldn't it be cool to punch Bob into the ground. Lo'
>and behold, Dave's mech picks up the thought and does it, totally trashing
>Bob's plane.
This is pretty interesting... but while Macross Plus may use a direct
mindlink, the biosensor in Zeta is pretty limited... it's not so much
a mindlink as it is picking up the neural signal from the brain to
the hand on the stick to execute a certain maneuver. For example,
the pilot wants to pull to the right, and is about to pull the stick
to the right. The biosensor picks up that neural signal and does
the maneuver, thus knocking off some split seconds in reaction time.
I know the biosensor isn't as simply explained as that, but my point
here is that it's not a direct mindlink per se as they have in Mac +.
richard jensen
> Well, at least on 3056 one problem is that many clan pilots don't
>follow RoE.
Can't say I agree, I have heard many nasty rumors about Clan pilots not following RoE, but today in IFSims, a clanner challenged me, and I accepted. I had been fighting him for quite a while...and one time he accidentally unloaded into my back at range 2. He apologized and was completely civil about it, apart from one newbie who didn't know you weren't supposed to shoot unconscious mechwarriors in the head....the clanners were fine.....
Maybe it's just me...but I haven't had any real serious problems with RoE
Cadet-Private Joe Tree
3rd NAIS Cadet Corps
1st Bttn., Bravo Co.
Stainless Steel Rat
>> Well, then, you're kinda screwed. Most newtype stuff has to be modified
>> to fit the specific pilot. That's why Rosamina was "made" - so she
>> could use psycho stuff desined for Four.
Prabal> Huh, what's this?
A psycom becomes "imprinted" by it's user. Once imprinted nobody else can
use it unless they have an nearly identical psyche and NewType type (which
has happened once naturally, between Amuro Rei and Lalah Sun). Rosamia's
psyche was patterned after Four Murasame's, because the Psycho Gundam's
psycom had already been imprinted by her. With Four dead, they needed a
pilot; enter another mind-fucked artifical NewType.
Prabal> [...] I never bought all this newtype stuff o-rama anyway.
Well, considering that NewType emergence is the reason the One Year War was
fought, and is central to the whole concept of Spacenoid independence from
the Terran Federation, chucking them entirely kinda re-writes the whole
situation.
[...]
Prabal> So is there ANY benefit for a funnel to dock to its mother-mech?
Yeah, it gets to refuel and recharge so it can be sent out again.
--
Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> |Peanut butter isn't a food group, it's a
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|bio-degradable adhesive.
G S Brammer
>insane. And I really don't want to hear all the bull about technology
>difference. Would anyone argue that a Clint is a much stronger mech
>than an Archer? Never. But, try running an Archer against _3_ Clints,
>and see what happens...
>
>- K. Allen
>
unlesss they are just VTOLs and tins, but as to the MtM..
A 2:1 ratio sounds quite balanced. I would be quite happy to
fight the sphere in half their tonnage.
I presume we are not talking 12 heavy assaults here? :)
No-one yet. Steel Viper
Prabal Nandy
>use it unless they have an nearly identical psyche and NewType type (which
>has happened once naturally, between Amuro Rei and Lalah Sun). Rosamia's
Why and how did this happen between Amuro and Lalah? What was the
situation, and what came of it? Did it mean they could pilot each other's
mechs or something like that?
>Well, considering that NewType emergence is the reason the One Year War was
>fought, and is central to the whole concept of Spacenoid independence from
Really?
How is Newtype ability the cause of the One-year war? I always thought
that was just a war of independance.
>the Terran Federation, chucking them entirely kinda re-writes the whole
>situation.
How is Newtype power central to the idea of Spacer independance?
BTW, I am really not all that interested in 'recreating' gundam with
BTech... I just want a system that will work with and handle Gundam-like
mechs and equipment.
>Prabal> So is there ANY benefit for a funnel to dock to its mother-mech?
>Yeah, it gets to refuel and recharge so it can be sent out again.
But I thought Funnels were powered by microwave energy transmitted from
the mother-mech... therefore why does it need to recharge! I am gettting
confused here!
rhee kie-hyock
>>use it unless they have an nearly identical psyche and NewType type (which
>>has happened once naturally, between Amuro Rei and Lalah Sun). Rosamia's
> Why and how did this happen between Amuro and Lalah? What was the
>situation, and what came of it? Did it mean they could pilot each other's
>mechs or something like that?
It was the bonding of feelings on a newtype level; they were on the
same wavelength and their feelings were communicated on a level much
higher than normal humans. Can we say, Love? ^_^
> Really?
> How is Newtype ability the cause of the One-year war? I always thought
>that was just a war of independance.
Well, Jion Zum Daikun kinda predicted the emergence of a new human type,
and that those newtypes would be the leading force for the generations
to come. He also declared that the spacenoids shouldn't be under
Federation/Earth rule. So the two kinda go hand in hand.
> How is Newtype power central to the idea of Spacer independance?
See above. It isn't the newtype power in itself that's the issue here,
rather the emergence of a new race and that the new race should emerge
stronger, and not be under Federation rule, but be independant.
> But I thought Funnels were powered by microwave energy transmitted from
>the mother-mech... therefore why does it need to recharge! I am gettting
>confused here!
There are several theories as to how funnels get their energy supply.
I was the one who claimed the microwave broadcast theory, which I had
received from someone else. Others suggest that they have a capacitor
which stores the energy before taking off from the host MS, and that
they come back to resupply.
Personally, I was under the impression that they get their power
for the beam weaponry broadcasted to them via microwaves, and that
they were pretty much one shot deals, i.e. expendable like missiles.
You never really get to see the funnels dock back to their host in
any of the shows. I remember reading in the CCA specs that at least
in the case of the Alpha Azieru's case, the funnels had the option of
docking back on the skirt portion to reload. I wonder if the pilots
ever bothered; the 'intelligence' as far as funnel control goes comes
from the newtype pilot, and I don't think I'd personally bother to
"recollect" the funnels in the heat of battle.
Wish TongHyun Meister was here to clarify. If anyone can settle this,
he can.
--
Keith "Kits" Rhee | A boss says "Go."
Stainless Steel Rat
>> use it unless they have an nearly identical psyche and NewType type (which
>> has happened once naturally, between Amuro Rei and Lalah Sun). Rosamia's
Prabal> Why and how did this happen between Amuro and Lalah?
It just did. One of those really weird curves the Universe throws at you.
Scared the shit out Char when he figured it out, and made him almost
insanely jealous at the same time. Even the Zion didn't understand all
there was to know about NewTypes at that time.
Prabal> What was the situation, and what came of it?
Char and Amuro were fighting; Lalah sacrificed herself to save Char's life
by impaling her Elmeth (and herself) on Amuro's beam saber, to keep Amuro
from killing him. She loved both of them, in one way or another.
Prabal> Did it mean they could pilot each other's mechs or something like
Prabal> that?
No, it meant they could share each others thoughts. I'm talking about a
complete psychic merger, soul-bonding.
>> Well, considering that NewType emergence is the reason the One Year War was
>> fought, and is central to the whole concept of Spacenoid independence from
Prabal> Really?
Prabal> How is Newtype ability the cause of the One-year war? I always
Prabal> thought that was just a war of independance.
The "NewType" is the next step in human evolution, a step that can only be
achieved by humans living in space, free from the constraints the Terran
Federation was putting on the colonies. The Federation, being clueless,
thought the "NewType" was some kind of super-soldier the Zion Empire had
created.
[...]
Prabal> BTW, I am really not all that interested in 'recreating' gundam
Prabal> with BTech... I just want a system that will work with and handle
Prabal> Gundam-like mechs and equipment.
Then don't call it "Gundam" or even "Gundam-like" because you're stripping
away everything that makes "Gundam" unique.
Prabal> So is there ANY benefit for a funnel to dock to its mother-mech?
>> Yeah, it gets to refuel and recharge so it can be sent out again.
Prabal> But I thought Funnels were powered by microwave energy
Prabal> transmitted from the mother-mech...
Can't happen. Minovski particles would absorb the energy almost as soon as
it's transmitted. Same reason that radar and other EM-based detection gear
doesn't work (microwaves are just another form of EM, BTW, commonly used
for radar gear).
--
Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> |"Good, bad... I'm the guy with the gun."
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|--Ashe, "Bruce Campbell vs. the Army of
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |Darkness"
Prabal Nandy
>Prabal> Why and how did this happen between Amuro and Lalah?
>It just did. One of those really weird curves the Universe throws at you.
>Scared the shit out Char when he figured it out, and made him almost
So they were in a battle and suddenly, POP! it happened? The two pilots
were suddenly on the same wavelength and dazed and confused?
>Char and Amuro were fighting; Lalah sacrificed herself to save Char's life
>by impaling her Elmeth (and herself) on Amuro's beam saber, to keep Amuro
And this was the first time the connection between Amuro and Lalah was
established? Wasn't the Elmeth really huge? Why didn't she use her Bits on
Amuro?
>No, it meant they could share each others thoughts. I'm talking about a
>complete psychic merger, soul-bonding.
"Bluuurrgghh, Bluuurghhh,, BLlllaaauuughh!" (hurls)
>The "NewType" is the next step in human evolution, a step that can only be
>achieved by humans living in space, free from the constraints the Terran
How does the terran federation's constraints prevent development of
Newtype technologies?
>Federation was putting on the colonies. The Federation, being clueless,
>thought the "NewType" was some kind of super-soldier the Zion Empire had
>created.
Well, it's more or less true, right?
BTW. Amuro Rei is a Federation Soldier... but Amuro Rei is also a
Newtype... does this mean that he is a Fed who grew up in space? (Gundam
writers must have a mighty wierd view of evolution.)
>Prabal> with BTech... I just want a system that will work with and handle
>Prabal> Gundam-like mechs and equipment.
>Then don't call it "Gundam" or even "Gundam-like" because you're stripping
>away everything that makes "Gundam" unique.
But wait!
I don't understand... What am I stripping away that's all that important?
I'm interested in the mechs and technology, everything else you've told me
is a 'plot device' which should be covered in an RPG manual, not a tactical
boardgame. If Amuro's Newtype bonding ability had some kind of tactical
value I might consider it... but pilot-dependant systems don't go down well
in strategic board gaming.
What I really need to hear is the kinda stuff that appears in Mecha Press
occassionally, like the Val Walo's (What's the model number?)
'plasma-leaders', 'Beam Javelins', 'Incoms' (do these need a psychommu like
control system?) etc etc... You know, the 'Gundam Gimmicks' the kinds of
weapons and tech that will get people interested in Gundam.
>Can't happen. Minovski particles would absorb the energy almost as soon as
>it's transmitted. Same reason that radar and other EM-based detection gear
>doesn't work (microwaves are just another form of EM, BTW, commonly used
>for radar gear).
Ok, than this is the default rule that I have... Someone was telling me
about beamed microwave energy, and I was afraid that I would have to revamp
my rules all over again...
rhee kie-hyock
>In article <RATINOX.94...@delphi.ccs.neu.edu> rat...@ccs.neu.edu (Stainless Steel Rat) writes:
> So they were in a battle and suddenly, POP! it happened? The two pilots
>were suddenly on the same wavelength and dazed and confused?
Yeup.
> And this was the first time the connection between Amuro and Lalah was
>established? Wasn't the Elmeth really huge? Why didn't she use her Bits on
>Amuro?
I believe she did, initially.
>>The "NewType" is the next step in human evolution, a step that can only be
>>achieved by humans living in space, free from the constraints the Terran
> How does the terran federation's constraints prevent development of
>Newtype technologies?
It's not about "technology" here, can't you see? When Quess talks about
human emotions being bound by gravity (Char uses this phrase a lot, too),
they're talking about the development of a newtype race, who are
emotionally more capable, more understanding, etc etc. A superior
race, kinda. Homo Sapiens Superior, to borrow Magneto's term (from the
X-men). It isn't _technology_ that's at stake here when they talk about
the liberation from the Federation influence.
>>Federation was putting on the colonies. The Federation, being clueless,
>>thought the "NewType" was some kind of super-soldier the Zion Empire had
>>created.
> Well, it's more or less true, right?
Wrong. Newtypes started emerging as people started moving out into
space. Evolution, not creation.
> BTW. Amuro Rei is a Federation Soldier... but Amuro Rei is also a
>Newtype... does this mean that he is a Fed who grew up in space? (Gundam
>writers must have a mighty wierd view of evolution.)
He grew up in a colony and got wrapped into the whole fiasco more or
less by accident. He wasn't a Federation soldier to start out with
until they discovered he was a natural pilot for the Gundam.
>>Then don't call it "Gundam" or even "Gundam-like" because you're stripping
>>away everything that makes "Gundam" unique.
> But wait!
> I don't understand... What am I stripping away that's all that important?
>I'm interested in the mechs and technology, everything else you've told me
>is a 'plot device' which should be covered in an RPG manual, not a tactical
>boardgame. If Amuro's Newtype bonding ability had some kind of tactical
>value I might consider it... but pilot-dependant systems don't go down well
>in strategic board gaming.
Newtype controlled weaponry and newtype pilots go hand in hand.
One can't exist without the other.
The whole essense of Gundam revolves around interpersonal conflict;
independance of Spacenoids, the brutalities of the Federation, the
brutal retaliations of the Jions (under Zabi rule, not the idealistic
rule of Jion Zum Daikun), clash of ideologies, and somewhere in there
the emergence of a new race. Newtype abilities, especially the emotional
aspect, in addition to the piloting skills, are at stake here.
Toss all that out and it ain't Gundam no more.
> What I really need to hear is the kinda stuff that appears in Mecha Press
>occassionally, like the Val Walo's (What's the model number?)
>'plasma-leaders', 'Beam Javelins', 'Incoms' (do these need a psychommu like
>control system?) etc etc... You know, the 'Gundam Gimmicks' the kinds of
>weapons and tech that will get people interested in Gundam.
True, a big part of the attraction to Gundam are the mecha designs...
>>Can't happen. Minovski particles would absorb the energy almost as soon as
>>it's transmitted. Same reason that radar and other EM-based detection gear
>>doesn't work (microwaves are just another form of EM, BTW, commonly used
>>for radar gear).
Not all forms of energy are absorbed by Minovski. It fails, for
example, to absorb anything in the visible light spectrum. Plus which
Minovski particles, unless REALLY dense, can't block all waves for a
short given distance. (Or, following your logic, minovski particles
should block the brainwaves controlling the funnels).
Communications still seem to work for long distances, though (people
on the bridge can still communicate with their pilots over extended
distances, like in 0083 where the captain calls the GP-03s back, saying
"You can't stop a colony on you own.").
Radar won't work reliably at best over very long distances
(1 kilometer +), but given that the average range of a funnel
(communications-wise) is within 1 km, this is still feasable with
microwaves, IMO. Besides which most of the time the funnels stick
relatively close to the host MS.
> Ok, than this is the default rule that I have... Someone was telling me
>about beamed microwave energy, and I was afraid that I would have to revamp
>my rules all over again...
--
Prabal Nandy
>> So they were in a battle and suddenly, POP! it happened? The two pilots
>>were suddenly on the same wavelength and dazed and confused?
> Yeup.
Love at first shot eh?
Must take the cake for all time shortest romance, truncated at the hilt
of a beam sabre, eh?
By the way, how did the Gundam Defend itself against the Bits? What is
the prefered method for dealing with high-speed funnel-type weapons?
And was the Gundam Full-Armor ever used in the anime, and what does it
look like?
> It's not about "technology" here, can't you see? When Quess talks about
> human emotions being bound by gravity (Char uses this phrase a lot, too),
> they're talking about the development of a newtype race, who are
> emotionally more capable, more understanding, etc etc. A superior
Seems a little hypocritical of the Newtypes, don'cha think? Considering
how unstable, volatile, unpredictable, and Unreasonable they tend to be? I
wonder how they 'evolved'... considering that Newtype powers never seem to
get anyone anywhere except killed or nuts?
> race, kinda. Homo Sapiens Superior, to borrow Magneto's term (from the
> X-men). It isn't _technology_ that's at stake here when they talk about
> the liberation from the Federation influence.
Ok... Now my question still is: How is the the Federation suppressing
Newtypes? I mean, they aren't trying to repatriate Earth or anything, the
colonists will still stay in space, etc, etc. BTW, what do the common folk
think of Newtypes? I assume they would be seriously looked down upon?
> Wrong. Newtypes started emerging as people started moving out into
> space. Evolution, not creation.
Yeah, but Newtypes can be created as well? Like Bio-soldiers, 4-Murusame,
er... um... Gunney from CCA, etc, right?
> less by accident. He wasn't a Federation soldier to start out with
> until they discovered he was a natural pilot for the Gundam.
I wonder then, why Amuro never tried to defect to the Jion side?
> Newtype controlled weaponry and newtype pilots go hand in hand.
> One can't exist without the other.
Ok... now, how does a newtype's emotional stregnth allow him to operate
newtype technology? I mean, exactly what goes on here? Right, the Psychommu,
Psychoframe, and Biosensor are the only Newtype things around?
Regardless, this kind of thing can be handled in a relevant RPG module
for my BTech equipment if the players wish it, otherwise we can just declare
that everyone has Newtype pilots and be done with it.
> The whole essense of Gundam revolves around interpersonal conflict;
> independance of Spacenoids, the brutalities of the Federation, the
Ok, I have inferred that, but THAT would be taken care of in a dedicated
RPG module which I shouldn't be messing with. I am just trying to get the
combat mechanics to work.
> brutal retaliations of the Jions (under Zabi rule, not the idealistic
Didn't they all dissappear after 0079? BTW, what is this I hear about
Char joining the Jions just so he could _assasinate_ members of the Zabi
family? Or have I heard wrong?
> the emergence of a new race. Newtype abilities, especially the emotional
> aspect, in addition to the piloting skills, are at stake here.
I am not sure I understand here. Most of the Newtypes I've heard about in
Gundam seem either fighting machines or psychopathic killers. I suppose
that's a kind of Emotional aspect...
> True, a big part of the attraction to Gundam are the mecha designs...
Yepper... Certainly!
> Not all forms of energy are absorbed by Minovski. It fails, for
I see... so basically just radar is blocked, right? What prevents people
from using, say, visual-spectrum laser-guidance and detection systems?
> Communications still seem to work for long distances, though (people
> on the bridge can still communicate with their pilots over extended
Of course, that would make mecha coordination impossible.
> Radar won't work reliably at best over very long distances
> (1 kilometer +), but given that the average range of a funnel
Wait wait wait... so that means that Minofski particles have NO EFFECT on
mecha combat (chiefly close range?) Hmmm! I should delete my section on it
then...
> microwaves, IMO. Besides which most of the time the funnels stick
> relatively close to the host MS.
Ok.. that is something else I needed to know, thanks.
Keep giving me more data. As you can see, I know pretty little about the
Gundam Universe...
rhee kie-hyock
> Must take the cake for all time shortest romance, truncated at the hilt
>of a beam sabre, eh?
Love cuts like a knife, I suppose.
> By the way, how did the Gundam Defend itself against the Bits? What is
>the prefered method for dealing with high-speed funnel-type weapons?
Simple. Put one foot in front of the other. It's called "running."
> Seems a little hypocritical of the Newtypes, don'cha think? Considering
>how unstable, volatile, unpredictable, and Unreasonable they tend to be? I
>wonder how they 'evolved'... considering that Newtype powers never seem to
>get anyone anywhere except killed or nuts?
Hey, not all evolutionary processes are considered "successful." ^_^
Joking aside, I think quite a no. of newtypes think that the older
generation don't understand them as well. As kids, they throw fits,
but looking at Amuro, you can see how they mature as they grow up.
Even in this real world, younger children with special gifts sometimes
turn out to be real brats, thinking the world revolves around them. If
they learn to harness their gifts and grow mature as they age, then hey,
that's good.
See what I mean? Looking at Amuro, you can see how he matures more as a
character as he grows older. His appearance in CCA is a far cry from the
Amuro in the One Year War.
> Ok... Now my question still is: How is the the Federation suppressing
>Newtypes? I mean, they aren't trying to repatriate Earth or anything, the
>colonists will still stay in space, etc, etc. BTW, what do the common folk
>think of Newtypes? I assume they would be seriously looked down upon?
I guess this is more or less indirect. The Federation isn't suppressing
Newtypes (at least they don't perceive it as such), they're oppressing
Spacenoids. Then, Jion Zum Daikun declares that the Spacenoids over
time will evolve into the new race. Linking the two together to say
that the Federation is specifically suppressing Newtypes is a little
bit reading too much into it.
> Yeah, but Newtypes can be created as well? Like Bio-soldiers, 4-Murusame,
>er... um... Gunney from CCA, etc, right?
Kinda like how modern science tries to improve on existing species to
create desirable ones, like frost resistant veggies, stronger animals,
etc. Military sees Newtypes in action, military thinks "Hey, we could
use some of those as our pilots." Military too impatient to wait till
a lot of people evolve, so they engineer their own. Capisce? ^_^
> I wonder then, why Amuro never tried to defect to the Jion side?
After seeing the Jions trashing his colony in the beginning? Uh uh.
> Ok... now, how does a newtype's emotional stregnth allow him to operate
>newtype technology? I mean, exactly what goes on here? Right, the Psychommu,
>Psychoframe, and Biosensor are the only Newtype things around?
When the first Gundam came out, it wasn't really specifically designed for
a newtype, it was just a MS far advanced for its time. One characteristic
of Newtypes is that they have a gift for piloting mechanical things,
compared to others who have to go thru months, years of training. They're
naturals. In a Battletech scenario, you could have the players roll the
die, and those who roll above a 12 are newtypes, and the higher the number
the better they can control their craft. See? You CAN incorporate
the Newtype factor into your game.
> Regardless, this kind of thing can be handled in a relevant RPG module
>for my BTech equipment if the players wish it, otherwise we can just declare
>that everyone has Newtype pilots and be done with it.
Uh... actually, being a newtype means to have heightened senses and
emotional capabilities, and these manifest themselves differently
depending on the person. Some are gifted pilots, others are more
mentally gifted (Scirocco). One newtype (Jude Ashita) even had trouble
piloting his first mech. See above; role the dice and set a number above
which people are cast as newtypes, and how strong their capabilities are
depends on how high a number they rolled. Just a suggestion.
> Didn't they all dissappear after 0079? BTW, what is this I hear about
>Char joining the Jions just so he could _assasinate_ members of the Zabi
>family? Or have I heard wrong?
Remember that Jion Zum Daikun was killed. It is implied that he was
killed by his assistant, Zabi. If this is true, and if Char knows this,
then it's no surprise he carefully plotted to kill them off.
> I am not sure I understand here. Most of the Newtypes I've heard about in
>Gundam seem either fighting machines or psychopathic killers. I suppose
>that's a kind of Emotional aspect...
"Heard about..."
I think it's high time you grabbed some tapes and sat down and enjoyed the
series, instead of playing it back in your mind based on what people tell
you. You can tell I'm biased, others are also biased as far as their
interpretations go. Watch the whole series, and you'll not only
understand everything better, you'll also be able to form your own
opinions on the matter.
Not to mention enjoying what IMO is a pretty darn good series out there.
>> Not all forms of energy are absorbed by Minovski. It fails, for
> I see... so basically just radar is blocked, right? What prevents people
>from using, say, visual-spectrum laser-guidance and detection systems?
Part of the sensor arrays that do skin-paints of incoming craft are
based on infrared and laser equipment. Those red glowing monoeyes,
they're glowing for a reason. ^_^
> Of course, that would make mecha coordination impossible.
>> Radar won't work reliably at best over very long distances
>> (1 kilometer +), but given that the average range of a funnel
> Wait wait wait... so that means that Minofski particles have NO EFFECT on
>mecha combat (chiefly close range?) Hmmm! I should delete my section on it
>then...
This is practically true. They both know each side is spraying Minovski
particles during combat, so noone uses radar, why bother? Why bother
spraying Minovski particles when noone's using radar? ^_^
(just being sarcastic here)
> Ok.. that is something else I needed to know, thanks.
> Keep giving me more data. As you can see, I know pretty little about the
>Gundam Universe...
Uh uh. Go get the tapes and watch them instead. ^_^ Beats having to
listen to three different people giving you three different opinions. ^_^
Stainless Steel Rat
Prabal> Love at first shot eh?
Something like that. The psychological shock of Lalah's death almost drove
Amuro to insanity.
Prabal> By the way, how did the Gundam Defend itself against the Bits?
Dodging like crazy.
Prabal> What is the prefered method for dealing with high-speed funnel-type
Prabal> weapons?
Shoot them down with your own before they can shoot you.
>> It's not about "technology" here, can't you see? When Quess talks about
>> human emotions being bound by gravity (Char uses this phrase a lot, too),
>> they're talking about the development of a newtype race, who are
>> emotionally more capable, more understanding, etc etc. A superior
Prabal> Seems a little hypocritical of the Newtypes, don'cha think?
Prabal> Considering how unstable, volatile, unpredictable, and Unreasonable
Prabal> they tend to be?
Don't confuse artificial NewTypes with the natural ones. Every artificial
NewType up to what's-his-name in CCA were nuts. But then again, they're no
more volatile, unpredictable, and unreasonable as anyone else.
>> race, kinda. Homo Sapiens Superior, to borrow Magneto's term (from the
>> X-men). It isn't _technology_ that's at stake here when they talk about
>> the liberation from the Federation influence.
Prabal> Ok... Now my question still is: How is the the Federation
Prabal> suppressing Newtypes? I mean, they aren't trying to repatriate
Prabal> Earth or anything, the colonists will still stay in space, etc,
Prabal> etc. BTW, what do the common folk think of Newtypes? I assume they
Prabal> would be seriously looked down upon?
The NewType can only evolve in space, free from the bonds to Earth. The
Terran Federation does not want to give that freedom to the spacenoids.
It's as much a psychological evolution as it is a physical one.
>> Wrong. Newtypes started emerging as people started moving out into
>> space. Evolution, not creation.
Prabal> Yeah, but Newtypes can be created as well? Like Bio-soldiers,
Prabal> 4-Murusame, er... um... Gunney from CCA, etc, right?
Yeah, but up to CCA all the artificial NewTypes were very unstable (look at
Gundam Double-Zeta for the ultimate examples). They're also not as
effective or as flexable as a natural NewType.
>> less by accident. He wasn't a Federation soldier to start out with
>> until they discovered he was a natural pilot for the Gundam.
Prabal> I wonder then, why Amuro never tried to defect to the Jion side?
He didn't belive in what the Jion regime stood for, which was not
exclusively spacenoid independence.
>> Newtype controlled weaponry and newtype pilots go hand in hand.
>> One can't exist without the other.
Prabal> Ok... now, how does a newtype's emotional stregnth allow him to
Prabal> operate newtype technology? I mean, exactly what goes on here?
At the basic level, a NewType can sense the minds of others in the vicinity
(upwards of a couple of kilometers). He can sense where they are in
relation to him and their emotional state (ie, are they shooting at him).
It adds up to being able to know when and where the "enemy" is going to
shoot him, so he can be somewhere else.
Prabal> Right, the Psychommu, Psychoframe, and Biosensor are the only
Prabal> Newtype things around?
No; these are systems that enhance certain NewType abilities, primarilly to
increase MS/MA response times and provide direct control over bits and
fanels.
>> brutal retaliations of the Jions (under Zabi rule, not the idealistic
Prabal> Didn't they all dissappear after 0079? BTW, what is this I hear
Prabal> about Char joining the Jions just so he could _assasinate_ members
Prabal> of the Zabi family? Or have I heard wrong?
No, that's part of his plan, anyway.
>> the emergence of a new race. Newtype abilities, especially the emotional
>> aspect, in addition to the piloting skills, are at stake here.
Prabal> I am not sure I understand here. Most of the Newtypes I've heard
Prabal> about in Gundam seem either fighting machines or psychopathic
Prabal> killers. I suppose that's a kind of Emotional aspect...
Well, when you're stuck in a war you make the most effective use of your
personnel, and NewTypes make the best MS/MA pilots.
>> Not all forms of energy are absorbed by Minovski. It fails, for
Prabal> I see... so basically just radar is blocked, right?
Microwaves and "radar waves" are the same thing.
--
Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> |"The only way to deal with temptation is to
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|yield to it." --Oscar Wilde
Prabal Nandy
> Love cuts like a knife, I suppose.
Tell me about it (GRIN!)
> Simple. Put one foot in front of the other. It's called "running."
So there's basically no chance of shooting down a Bit, or using some
kinda point-defense phalnyx gun on them? How come they never nailed Amuro
then? DId he just Ram the Elmeth at full Speed with his sabre?
> Joking aside, I think quite a no. of newtypes think that the older
> generation don't understand them as well. As kids, they throw fits,
> but looking at Amuro, you can see how they mature as they grow up.
Hmmm...
I've never seen CCA so I couldn't say for sure, myself. How many Newtypes
do you figure there are? Probably alot of 'Closet' Newtypes as well, eh? So
basically you don't know if someone is a newtype or not until after they are
in the pilot's seat?
> Even in this real world, younger children with special gifts sometimes
> turn out to be real brats, thinking the world revolves around them. If
Oh yeah... Too many of those types...
But that's usually because of their over-indulgent parents.
> character as he grows older. His appearance in CCA is a far cry from the
> Amuro in the One Year War.
What was he like in the One year War and how old? Wasn't he sorta a
misfit in ZGundam?
> Newtypes (at least they don't perceive it as such), they're oppressing
> Spacenoids. Then, Jion Zum Daikun declares that the Spacenoids over
Overtaxation and stuff, right?
>> I wonder then, why Amuro never tried to defect to the Jion side?
> After seeing the Jions trashing his colony in the beginning? Uh uh.
Why did the Jions trash his colony? I thought they were fighting FOR the
freedom of the Colonies?
> a newtype, it was just a MS far advanced for its time. One characteristic
> of Newtypes is that they have a gift for piloting mechanical things,
> compared to others who have to go thru months, years of training. They're
Plot Device? Just to explain how a kid can jump into a mech and pilot it
into battle with no problem, successfully slaying his betters?
> die, and those who roll above a 12 are newtypes, and the higher the number
Then none of them would be, because we only use 2d6! (GRIN!)
> depending on the person. Some are gifted pilots, others are more
> mentally gifted (Scirocco). One newtype (Jude Ashita) even had trouble
Scirocco? Wasn't he the engineer for a whole bunch of MAs and MSs?
> killed by his assistant, Zabi. If this is true, and if Char knows this,
> then it's no surprise he carefully plotted to kill them off.
BTW, is this somehow related to why Char wore that Dorky helmet for all
of MSG?
Also, does anyone know what that funny looking symbol on the skirt of the
Sazabi is?
> "Heard about..."
> I think it's high time you grabbed some tapes and sat down and enjoyed the
> series, instead of playing it back in your mind based on what people tell
Yeah... as soon as our Anime club gets more tapes of it. A subbed copy
of ZGundam would really hit the spot, as I've heard its the best TV series.
I've heard ZZG stinks.... I am watching 0080 tonight (Kampfer-time!) and
I've seen most of 0083 (Nina! Kou! Nina! Kou! Sob sob sob.).... Heard CCA
stinks too.(There was some stupid girl in there that ruined the story,
right?). Just as long as there are no "Space Colonies saved by the power of
Love" or something, I'll watch it!
> interpretations go. Watch the whole series, and you'll not only
> understand everything better, you'll also be able to form your own
Yepper! I suppose I will have to lobby our JHAC club to get more mecha
shows!
> Not to mention enjoying what IMO is a pretty darn good series out there.
Yepper...
> Part of the sensor arrays that do skin-paints of incoming craft are
> based on infrared and laser equipment. Those red glowing monoeyes,
> they're glowing for a reason. ^_^
Heh heh hehe!
That is the best explanation for the Jion Monoeye that I've ever heard!
Cool!.
As far as Eyes go... I've seen that forehead slot on Gundams marked as
the "Main camera" and the 'eyes' marked as the 'secondary cameras' (Esp,
GP-02A)... Is this true? Does this mean that the eyes are Superflous and
fixed, Unlike the Jion Mechs?
Do I hear correctly that the original ZAKs couldn't turn their heads?
> This is practically true. They both know each side is spraying Minovski
> particles during combat, so noone uses radar, why bother? Why bother
OK, I see now.
Prabal Nandy
>Something like that. The psychological shock of Lalah's death almost drove
>Amuro to insanity.
Something like that almost drove Camille into insanity as well, right?
>Prabal> By the way, how did the Gundam Defend itself against the Bits?
>Dodging like crazy.
No way to shoot them down? BTW, how big are they compared to MSs?
>Shoot them down with your own before they can shoot you.
So if you don't have funnels you are toast? Are INCOMS advanced funnels?
(I mean, SG came out after ZG right?)
>Don't confuse artificial NewTypes with the natural ones. Every artificial
>NewType up to what's-his-name in CCA were nuts. But then again, they're no
>more volatile, unpredictable, and unreasonable as anyone else.
So ones like Quess and Camille are fundamentally alot more stable?
>The NewType can only evolve in space, free from the bonds to Earth. The
How is that? What kind of physical 'bonds' prevent the manifestation of
Newtype abilities?
>Yeah, but up to CCA all the artificial NewTypes were very unstable (look at
>Gundam Double-Zeta for the ultimate examples). They're also not as
Who, or what, was the 'ultimate example'?
>He didn't belive in what the Jion regime stood for, which was not
What else do the Jions stand for?
>It adds up to being able to know when and where the "enemy" is going to
>shoot him, so he can be somewhere else.
So a Newtype, trained to fight like this, may be particularly vulnerable
to robotic weapons?
>No; these are systems that enhance certain NewType abilities, primarilly to
>increase MS/MA response times and provide direct control over bits and
>fanels.
Then what other kinds of Newtype systems are out there?
INCOMS do NOT require Newtype pilots, right?
rhee kie-hyock
> Something like that almost drove Camille into insanity as well, right?
Yes and no. The whole conflict and the people's deaths in general,
plus Four and Rosamia's death, was really pushing him to the edge.
Scirocco's final blow at the end was the last push; although he destroyed
Camille's mind, it was only a matter of time till Camille would've gone
insane anyway.
> So if you don't have funnels you are toast? Are INCOMS advanced funnels?
>(I mean, SG came out after ZG right?)
Incoms are wire-guided funnels, so they're tethered, and inferior.
(they don't have extra firepower, they're not more maneuverable, etc...
you get the idea).
> So ones like Quess and Camille are fundamentally alot more stable?
The artificial ones are unstable due to the fact that the newtype
enhancements are forced onto them. Mentally unstable. People like
Quess and Camille go thru a lot of tough experiences and circumstances.
Emotionally unstable.
> How is that? What kind of physical 'bonds' prevent the manifestation of
>Newtype abilities?
Plot device. Nuff said.
> Who, or what, was the 'ultimate example'?
Watch the series, boy. I keep telling you, don't try to play back
everything in your mind based on what we say.
That being said, one of them was Mashuma...
> What else do the Jions stand for?
See my other post about this. The Zabi was interested more in power
than the ideals his predecessor stood for.
>>It adds up to being able to know when and where the "enemy" is going to
>>shoot him, so he can be somewhere else.
> Then what other kinds of Newtype systems are out there?
> INCOMS do NOT require Newtype pilots, right?
nope.
rhee kie-hyock
> So there's basically no chance of shooting down a Bit, or using some
>kinda point-defense phalnyx gun on them? How come they never nailed Amuro
>then? DId he just Ram the Elmeth at full Speed with his sabre?
The scenario:
Larah: "Oh, Amuro..."
Amuro: "Oh, Larah..."
Char: (boiling with jealousy) Stay away from him, Larah!
(Amuro ready to hit Char with Beam Saber)
Larah: No! (puts her Elmeth between Char and Amuro)
*Bzzzt*
Larah: Noooooooo! *Boom*
Amuro: Noooooooo!
Char: Laraaaaah!
As you can see, she wasn't using her weaponry against Amuro when she
took the saber hit.
> Hmmm...
> I've never seen CCA so I couldn't say for sure, myself. How many Newtypes
>do you figure there are? Probably alot of 'Closet' Newtypes as well, eh? So
>basically you don't know if someone is a newtype or not until after they are
>in the pilot's seat?
Hey, it ain't closet homosexuals we're talking about here. ^^;;
The more correct term would be "undiscovered." A lot of these guys don't
know of their capabilities until they're presented with a situation
where they use them (like, for instance, jumping into an MS brings out
their natural familiarity with piloting machines, but you don't
pilot an MS in everyday life, do you?)
> Oh yeah... Too many of those types...
> But that's usually because of their over-indulgent parents.
Well, both sides kinda place a lot of pressure and demands on their
top newtype pilots, too.
> What was he like in the One year War and how old? Wasn't he sorta a
>misfit in ZGundam?
Amuro's role in Zeta was pretty small, and by that time, although
somewhat emotionally unstable, was already pretty mature otherwise.
(his emotional unstability was basically his phobia of space, fearing
Larah would come back to his dreams).
> Why did the Jions trash his colony? I thought they were fighting FOR the
>freedom of the Colonies?
Remember, that was JION ZUM DAIKUN's ideas, who later got assasinated,
then got replaced by his assistant, who turned Jion into an ARCHDUCHY.
Quite evident that the new Zabi guy had something different in mind.
Can we say, Power? Conquest? While most of the Jion population still
believed in the original Jion ideals of independance, the leader himself
was a lot more ambitious.
Oh, and the fact that the Feds had the Gundam prototypes in that very
colony is a pretty good reason to invade it, too.
> Plot Device? Just to explain how a kid can jump into a mech and pilot it
>into battle with no problem, successfully slaying his betters?
Hey, this is different, but you see those little kids in the arcades
kicking everyone elses butt in Street Fighter II. Sometimes makes me
think they're naturals.
> Then none of them would be, because we only use 2d6! (GRIN!)
I was thinking of the 18-faced die in D&D... never mind.
> Scirocco? Wasn't he the engineer for a whole bunch of MAs and MSs?
He designed and made his own custom stuff, yes. None of his stuff
was mass produced, though. All custom built for himself.
> BTW, is this somehow related to why Char wore that Dorky helmet for all
>of MSG?
Ping pong!
You're right! He put that on to hide his identity.
Not that it worked completely (Kishiria knew who he was).
> Yeah... as soon as our Anime club gets more tapes of it. A subbed copy
>of ZGundam would really hit the spot, as I've heard its the best TV series.
>I've heard ZZG stinks.... I am watching 0080 tonight (Kampfer-time!) and
>I've seen most of 0083 (Nina! Kou! Nina! Kou! Sob sob sob.).... Heard CCA
>stinks too.(There was some stupid girl in there that ruined the story,
>right?). Just as long as there are no "Space Colonies saved by the power of
>Love" or something, I'll watch it!
If you're referring to Quess the bitch, remember that she's but one
character of many in CCA. Don't let that ruin the show for you. She's
annoying, but she's not the biggest part of the show.
> As far as Eyes go... I've seen that forehead slot on Gundams marked as
>the "Main camera" and the 'eyes' marked as the 'secondary cameras' (Esp,
>GP-02A)... Is this true? Does this mean that the eyes are Superflous and
>fixed, Unlike the Jion Mechs?
The camera on the top is the sight camera, the eyes are the sensor arrays.
And yes, the eyes are fixed, but the Gundam can turn its head. Try that
with a Zaku without breaking its neck.
> Do I hear correctly that the original ZAKs couldn't turn their heads?
Most Jion mechs can't.
Stainless Steel Rat
Prabal> So they were in a battle and suddenly, POP! it happened? The two
Prabal> pilots were suddenly on the same wavelength and dazed and confused?
Yeah, that's pretty close to what happened.
>> Char and Amuro were fighting; Lalah sacrificed herself to save Char's life
>> by impaling her Elmeth (and herself) on Amuro's beam saber, to keep Amuro
Prabal> And this was the first time the connection between Amuro and
Prabal> Lalah was established?
Yup.
Prabal> Wasn't the Elmeth really huge?
Yup. Up until around 0085 or so psycom equipment was huge and required a
lot of power.
Prabal> Why didn't she use her Bits on Amuro?
She did; he avoided them.
>> No, it meant they could share each others thoughts. I'm talking about a
>> complete psychic merger, soul-bonding.
Prabal> "Bluuurrgghh, Bluuurghhh,, BLlllaaauuughh!" (hurls)
Deal with it, pinkboy. It's what the NewType is all about.
>> The "NewType" is the next step in human evolution, a step that can only be
>> achieved by humans living in space, free from the constraints the Terran
Prabal> How does the terran federation's constraints prevent development
Prabal> of Newtype technologies?
Not NewType technologies, NewTypes in general. Part of the evolution of the
NewType is psycholgical, and that evolution was being stunted by the Terran
Federation's policies.
>> Federation was putting on the colonies. The Federation, being clueless,
>> thought the "NewType" was some kind of super-soldier the Zion Empire had
>> created.
Prabal> Well, it's more or less true, right?
Nope, not even close. Not if you're thinking of Votom's "perfect soldiers"
at any rate.
Prabal> BTW. Amuro Rei is a Federation Soldier... but Amuro Rei is also
Prabal> a Newtype... does this mean that he is a Fed who grew up in space?
Right
Prabal> (Gundam writers must have a mighty wierd view of evolution.)
Prabal> with BTech... I just want a system that will work with and handle
Prabal> Gundam-like mechs and equipment.
>> Then don't call it "Gundam" or even "Gundam-like" because you're stripping
>> away everything that makes "Gundam" unique.
Prabal> But wait!
Prabal> I don't understand... What am I stripping away that's all that
Prabal> important? I'm interested in the mechs and technology, everything
Prabal> else you've told me is a 'plot device' which should be covered in
Prabal> an RPG manual, not a tactical boardgame.
<sigh> Gundam is a hell of a lot more than just a tactical boardgame, or
"just another mecha show." There's a real story there, with real people, as
real as the conflicts of the Inner Sphere, the Clans, etc. Yes, you can
play Battletech without any of the background that makes it unique but then
you reduce it to "just another tactical boardgame." Same with Gundam.
Prabal> If Amuro's Newtype bonding ability had some kind of tactical value
Prabal> I might consider it... but pilot-dependant systems don't go down
Prabal> well in strategic board gaming. What I really need to hear is the
Prabal> kinda stuff that appears in Mecha Press occassionally, like the Val
Prabal> Walo's (What's the model number?) 'plasma-leaders', 'Beam
Prabal> Javelins', 'Incoms' (do these need a psychommu like control
Prabal> system?) etc etc... You know, the 'Gundam Gimmicks' the kinds of
Prabal> weapons and tech that will get people interested in Gundam.
<shrug> Then take "rec.arts.anime" out of the Newsgroups: field. Here, I'll
deal with it for you :).
--
Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> |"Carpe Joltem! (Seize the Caffeine)" --Me
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|
Stainless Steel Rat
>> Something like that. The psychological shock of Lalah's death almost drove
>> Amuro to insanity.
Prabal> Something like that almost drove Camille into insanity as well,
Prabal> right?
No, that was a very focused psychic attack from Scirocco, when Camile
killed him at the end of Zeta Gundam.
Prabal> By the way, how did the Gundam Defend itself against the Bits?
>> Dodging like crazy.
Prabal> No way to shoot them down? BTW, how big are they compared to MSs?
Small. A little smaller than a core fighter. Fanels are smaller still.
>> Shoot them down with your own before they can shoot you.
Prabal> So if you don't have funnels you are toast?
Pretty much. Imagine an aircraft carrier without any kind of interdiction.
Prabal> Are INCOMS advanced funnels? (I mean, SG came out after ZG right?)
Argh! No, incoms are wire-guided fanels. Otherwise there's no functional
difference.
>> Don't confuse artificial NewTypes with the natural ones. Every artificial
>> NewType up to what's-his-name in CCA were nuts. But then again, they're no
>> more volatile, unpredictable, and unreasonable as anyone else.
Prabal> So ones like Quess and Camille are fundamentally alot more stable?
Well, they didn't have someone walking through their minds with combat
boots, anyway. Camile and Quess are stubborn, arrogant, willful, emotional,
etc.; they're not clinically insane.
>> The NewType can only evolve in space, free from the bonds to Earth. The
Prabal> How is that? What kind of physical 'bonds' prevent the
Prabal> manifestation of Newtype abilities?
Psychological ones, not physical.
>> Yeah, but up to CCA all the artificial NewTypes were very unstable (look
>> at Gundam Double-Zeta for the ultimate examples). They're also not as
Prabal> Who, or what, was the 'ultimate example'?
Oh, jheeze! Anyone in the neo-Jion command aside from Haaman Kahn. There
were a lot of 'em. They were all loopy.
>> He didn't belive in what the Jion regime stood for, which was not
Prabal> What else do the Jions stand for?
Nazi Germany; close enough.
>> It adds up to being able to know when and where the "enemy" is going to
>> shoot him, so he can be somewhere else.
Prabal> So a Newtype, trained to fight like this, may be particularly
Prabal> vulnerable to robotic weapons?
What "robotic weapons"? A human being can fight better than any computer.
Why else would you put a human in the cockpit?
Prabal> Then what other kinds of Newtype systems are out there?
That's about it.
Prabal> INCOMS do NOT require Newtype pilots, right?
Right.
--
Rat <rat...@ccs.neu.edu> |On the seventh day the Lord said: I'm
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox|pooped. You build the theme park.
Stephen Philbrick
pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy) writes:
> So there's basically no chance of shooting down a Bit, or using some
>kinda point-defense phalnyx gun on them? How come they never nailed Amuro
>then? DId he just Ram the Elmeth at full Speed with his sabre?
Just about anything can be hit in the Gundam universe, it just
requires a good deal of skill/Newtype abilities to hit something guided/
piloted by another Newtype. Amuro shot his way through the Bits, and
then engaged Elmeth directly. Even Amuro's funnels are destroyed in
CCA.
> Hmmm...
> I've never seen CCA so I couldn't say for sure, myself. How many Newtypes
>do you figure there are? Probably alot of 'Closet' Newtypes as well, eh? So
>basically you don't know if someone is a newtype or not until after they are
>in the pilot's seat?
>
There are other ways of demonstrating newtype abilities, but combat
is the most dramatic. Actually, a couple of characters sense Camilie's
latent power before he even boards the Gundam Mk.II. Then again, his
abilities were *very* strong.
>> character as he grows older. His appearance in CCA is a far cry from the
>> Amuro in the One Year War.
>
> What was he like in the One year War and how old? Wasn't he sorta a
>misfit in ZGundam?
>
At the beginning of Zeta Gundam, Amuro had become a recluse on
earth, and was under constant army survailance, because they still
didn't understand Newtypes and feared his power. However, he'd developed
a "fear of space", which affected him even when he was called upon to
pilot a MS again- I think it was in the battle at the Golden Gate Bridge,
San Francisco.
>>> I wonder then, why Amuro never tried to defect to the Jion side?
>> After seeing the Jions trashing his colony in the beginning? Uh uh.
>
> Why did the Jions trash his colony? I thought they were fighting FOR the
>freedom of the Colonies?
>
The Jions attacked his colony to destroy the the Federal MS
development facilities. The civilians just got in the way. Actually, he
does join Kalabela/A.E.U.G., and fights along with Char and Camilie against
the Titans. The Titans were a Federal group assigned to keep order over Jion
sympathetic colonies, but went overboard and eventually split from the
government. The A.E.U.G. is later renamed Lond Bel, in time for Char's
Counterattack.
>> a newtype, it was just a MS far advanced for its time. One characteristic
>> of Newtypes is that they have a gift for piloting mechanical things,
>> compared to others who have to go thru months, years of training. They're
>
> Plot Device? Just to explain how a kid can jump into a mech and pilot it
>into battle with no problem, successfully slaying his betters?
>
Sure. I've read that MS Gundam was still constrained by the
70's giant robot formula, which is that the hero (a kid) inherits his
giant robot from a late scientist (usually a relative; note Amuro's
father built the Gundam), and spends x episodes slugging it out
with the bad guys. The Newtype element made it somewhat more credible,
and gave Tomino an interesting thread to explore.
> Yeah... as soon as our Anime club gets more tapes of it. A subbed copy
>of ZGundam would really hit the spot, as I've heard its the best TV series.
>I've heard ZZG stinks.... I am watching 0080 tonight (Kampfer-time!) and
>I've seen most of 0083 (Nina! Kou! Nina! Kou! Sob sob sob.).... Heard CCA
>stinks too.(There was some stupid girl in there that ruined the story,
>right?). Just as long as there are no "Space Colonies saved by the power of
>Love" or something, I'll watch it!
>
I liked Char's Counterattack, even though I found Quess annoying
and bratty. There were enough other characters to follow, and plenty
of action, so I don't think she detracts from the film too much. Besides,
she had her purpose in the script, to provide tension between
Guynei and Char, and to show how sneaky and manipulative Char
can be. A friend of mine even liked her and based a D&D character
off of her; there's no accounting for taste!
> As far as Eyes go... I've seen that forehead slot on Gundams marked as
>the "Main camera" and the 'eyes' marked as the 'secondary cameras' (Esp,
>GP-02A)... Is this true? Does this mean that the eyes are Superflous and
>fixed, Unlike the Jion Mechs?
> Do I hear correctly that the original ZAKs couldn't turn their heads?
>
Hmmmn- maybe the origial, but my Zak FS from 0080 can turn it's
head.
Prabal Nandy
>In article <32e7da$8...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>,
>pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Prabal Nandy) writes:
>requires a good deal of skill/Newtype abilities to hit something guided/
>piloted by another Newtype. Amuro shot his way through the Bits, and
>then engaged Elmeth directly. Even Amuro's funnels are destroyed in
>CCA.
Really?
They are that hard to hit then?
BTW, how Were Amuro's funnels destroyed? Also, why did he use a Geara
Doga gun later in the show?
>a "fear of space", which affected him even when he was called upon to
>pilot a MS again- I think it was in the battle at the Golden Gate Bridge,
>San Francisco.
Hmm.
How old was he? In the original Show?
Fear of space? Does it ever get over it in ZG? Is he still a good fighter
though? Ho wdid this happen?
> The Jions attacked his colony to destroy the the Federal MS
>development facilities. The civilians just got in the way. Actually, he
Just like in 0080, eh?
>does join Kalabela/A.E.U.G., and fights along with Char and Camilie against
>the Titans. The Titans were a Federal group assigned to keep order over Jion
Yeah, ok!
What mech does he pilot, BTW. Also, what does a 'nemo' look like?
>government. The A.E.U.G. is later renamed Lond Bel, in time for Char's
>Counterattack.
Lond Bell?
Why 'Lond Bell?"
>70's giant robot formula, which is that the hero (a kid) inherits his
>giant robot from a late scientist (usually a relative; note Amuro's
>father built the Gundam), and spends x episodes slugging it out
How Conveeeenient! Heh heh heh.
So THAT's how Amuro gets to be a pilot! Nepotism!
BTW, does anyone think MSG's designs are incredibly dumpy looking?
Especially the Mobile armors!
>she had her purpose in the script, to provide tension between
>Guynei and Char, and to show how sneaky and manipulative Char
Gunney is Char's right hand man, eh? BTW, how good is a Jagd Doga
compared to a Geara Doga and or Gundam/ReGZ?
>> Do I hear correctly that the original ZAKs couldn't turn their heads?
> Hmmmn- maybe the origial, but my Zak FS from 0080 can turn it's
Hmmm... Do you like your ZAK FZ model?
Anyway, if you watch 0080 again, toward the end the ZAK is hiding from the
Gundam in the forest, and it it watching the Gundam out of the corner of its
eye. I don't think it would do that unless it couldnt' turn its head.
rhee kie-hyock
> BTW, how Were Amuro's funnels destroyed? Also, why did he use a Geara
>Doga gun later in the show?
Destroyed by laser fire.
He was using a Geara Doga gun cuz his own got chopped by a heat hawk
flung from the Sazabi. All he had to do was to scratch one Geara Doga,
take the gun and run.
> Hmm.
> How old was he? In the original Show?
> Fear of space? Does it ever get over it in ZG? Is he still a good fighter
>though? Ho wdid this happen?
How did it happen? Killing a person you're close to is always a
traumatic experience for people, no? Hence the nightmares.
He doesn't quite overcome it in Zeta, which is why he refuses to go out
in space with the rest of the AEUG crew, instead opting to work with the
Earth forces Kalaba (an AEUG support group limited to Earth; they are
somewhat limited in what they can do as they try not to breech too much
against normal EFM rulings).
> Yeah, ok!
> What mech does he pilot, BTW. Also, what does a 'nemo' look like?
He pilots a Tije, a custom redo of the Rick Dias, I think (or was it
a different MS?) A nemo is basically a GM-II with improved sensor arrays.
Kinda has an ugly paint scheme, though
> Lond Bell?
> Why 'Lond Bell?"
Perhaps since their base colony goes by the name of Londonion?
Why did they call that one bomber the Memphis Belle? Does naming of
teams and such in anime always have to make sense? ^_^
> BTW, does anyone think MSG's designs are incredibly dumpy looking?
>Especially the Mobile armors!
The early ones in the TV show looked somewhat ridiculous to me, at least.
Then comes Zeta, which had some of the most innovative mecha designs
for its time (as a matter of fact, they're still probably some of the best
looking).
> Gunney is Char's right hand man, eh? BTW, how good is a Jagd Doga
>compared to a Geara Doga and or Gundam/ReGZ?
Geara Doga is the Zaku of the 90's... er, 0090's. Standard issue MS,
still pretty good but not a match for the upper class ones. Jagd Doga,
improved styling, better weaponry, carries psychomu for funnels. No
match for a real Gundam, I should think, at least not when the main
character is piloting it, that is. ^_^ It would be a close match with
the ReGZ, depending on who's piloting it. Amuro damn near had Gyunei in
the beginning, but when the ReGZ was under Kaira's care Gyunei toasted it
rather easily. Darn it, Nandy, stop asking these questions and go
buy the books! Borrow the tapes! Read them! Watch the movie, and
stop posting all these questions!!!
*minutes of endless ranting deleted*
Sorry, had to get that out. ^_^
> Hmmm... Do you like your ZAK FZ model?
> Anyway, if you watch 0080 again, toward the end the ZAK is hiding from the
>Gundam in the forest, and it it watching the Gundam out of the corner of its
>eye. I don't think it would do that unless it couldnt' turn its head.
Corner of its eye? It only HAS _one_ eye. That eye is free to turn
from far left to far right within the window provided in the helmet.
It's like those deep sea suits. It has a widened window, the person can
turn his/her head inside that helmet, but the helmet itself doesn't turn.
Same thing with the Zakus. The outer shell portion does NOT turn.
None, Nada, none of the Zakus are capable of this.
Remember the concept of the monoeye, at least for most of Gundam; the
head portion is fixed, but the eye itself is free to pivot around within
the helmet, looking left and right. A lot more stabler and safer in a
hostile combat environment than, say, the typical Gundam head, which has
fixed eyes, and so must turn its head around to change the view.