Can You Put a Long Tom on a Mech?
hazem el-abbadi
about putting an AC20 or an Arrow IV (placing the weapon in several adjacent
locations). I think the Compendium indicates you can. Someone else says you
can't. Who's right?
Haz
Darrin Lee Bright
The rules state that large weapons such as the AC/20 and artillery weapons
such as Arrow IV, Long Tom and so on, can be split between two adjacent
areas. This is in the Compendium, but I don't have it in front of me so I
can't quote the page number. "Adjacent" means that the locations must be
next to one another, such as the right torso and the right arm. The maximum
number of critical spaces you can get with this method is 22, 12 in a torso
and 10 in an arm. Even if you decided that the leg or center torso is also
considered "adjacent", you can only get another 2 critical spaces this way.
Because the Long Tom takes 30 critical spaces, the majority of Btech players
usually say that it is impossible to mount a Long Tom on a BattleMech.
Of course, this doesn't explain why the Compendium mentions the Long Tom
when it describes splitting critical slots between locations. I suggest
this is another example of FASA being a wee bit sloppy.
Why would you WANT to mount a Long Tom on a BattleMech, anyway? You can get
the same damage with an Arrow IV system. The Arrow IV is much lighter, and
although it doesn't have the range of a Long Tom, a BattleMech is generally
much more maneuverable than a vehicle. Any range disadvantages could be
negated simply by moving the 'Mechs with Arrow IV's closer to the
battlefield.
--
"Uh...yeah, I uh... suck blood all the time..." - The Tick
--
* * * Darrin Bright - Duck Ezra - Muse of Tedium * * *
= = ============================================ = =
leff...@gold.tc.umn.edu
<snip>
: Well, if you do put a Long Tom on a bipedal platform, it's going to fall
This obviously leads to the next question... why does the mech have to be
bipedal? Personally, I kinda like the quad mechs (and my home-brew tripod
mech... don't ask, it takes too long to explain, and I doubt its legal...
never got 'round to buying a Compendium to work out the details).
I think these multi-legged platforms could prove to be a sufficiently stable
mount for a Long Tom. If you're worried still about recoil, have the sucker
'squat', and use its hind legs as extra bracing, and use the front legs to
increase the elevation capabilities... I think a turret would be a bad idea
however, unless someone got cute and could explain how to compensate for the
'shear' forces you'd get on the mountings from just one salvo.
: Of course, even if you don't fall down, you will deserve the extra
: attention the enemies give your Mech ("Kill it! Kill it now!").
Heh, I agree with 'ya there...
: Dave Van Domelen, "Well, it took up all the right and center torso spaces
: and it has to bend over on its hands and knees to aim, but I think it's worth
: it." - Pilot of the MNK-1N Munchkin
-- Brian Leff (leff...@gold.tc.umn.edu)
a.k.a. Gavin_O'Malley, Captain, St. Ives Compact Armed Forces (3056MUSE)
*****
Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
-- unknown
*****
Brett '6 Marigolds' Castillo
Dave Van Domelen <dva...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>In article <D9Ero...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>hazem el-abbadi <hela...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>Is it possible to put a Long Tom on a mech, using a continuation of the rule
>>about putting an AC20 or an Arrow IV (placing the weapon in several adjacent
>>locations). I think the Compendium indicates you can. Someone else says you
>>can't. Who's right?
>
>that barrel-as-long-as-you're-tall getting in the way all the time.
> Of course, even if you don't fall down, you will deserve the extra
>attention the enemies give your Mech ("Kill it! Kill it now!").
>and it has to bend over on its hands and knees to aim, but I think it's worth
>it." - Pilot of the MNK-1N Munchkin
Erm... how about a quad with the long tom taking up the crits in both front
legs, both sides torsos, and the ct (30 crits?) This would basically stick
the artillery piece across the whole front and middle of the mech with the
front legs as support and the back legs to brace.
--
--Brett Castillo . __
bk...@midway.uchicago.edu | /
| /_.
Ted Joe Vorholt
Robert J Chverchko <chve...@basic.cse.psu.edu> wrote:
>In article <D9Ero...@midway.uchicago.edu> hazem el-abbadi <hela...@midway.uchicago.edu> writes:
>>Is it possible to put a Long Tom on a mech, using a continuation of the rule
>>about putting an AC20 or an Arrow IV (placing the weapon in several adjacent
>>locations). I think the Compendium indicates you can. Someone else says you
>>can't. Who's right?
>>
>>
> FASA clarified their rules, you can only mount a single weapon in between
>2 adjacent locations. This has the effect of the largest possible mech
>mountable weapon is the Sniper. The longtom is just too big for mechs
>mounting slots.
You can put a Long Tom on a mech, just not inside one. 50 ton wheeled tank,
30 fusion engine, Long Tom front w/25 rounds, 108 FF armor. Even if you
could fit the Long Tom in a mech, it does 20 heat and would seriously limit
the mech from doing much else efficiently. Free up a bunch of cargo space
and upgrade the engine and carry it around with you. The 35 criticals
and 20 heat sinks you save with an ejectable mounting make it worth the
extra fuss. Hehehe.. Old 3025 tech Awesome with a Schrek bolted on...
6 PPCs and a turreted larger laser where most of the Schrek's engine used to
be. Put the Long Tom on a Shadowhawk or Marauder to give that one time
AC/5 a little kick.
Eelco Giele
: Dave Van Domelen (dva...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu) wrote:
: <snip>
: : Well, if you do put a Long Tom on a bipedal platform, it's going to
: : fall
<snip>
: I think these multi-legged platforms could prove to be a sufficiently stable
: mount for a Long Tom. If you're worried still about recoil, have the sucker
: 'squat', and use its hind legs as extra bracing, and use the front legs to
: increase the elevation capabilities... I think a turret would be a bad idea
: however, unless someone got cute and could explain how to compensate for the
: 'shear' forces you'd get on the mountings from just one salvo.
Well, without a turret the force will be on the mech itself. IMO You would
need some recoil compensation on the pace the turret is normally.
Further is is purely hypothetical. Look at the way FASA describes the mobile
long tom unit (3025 tech readout I believe). It's so big it will never fit on
a mech. It's a train of vehicles, connected with each other.
Eelco
hazem el-abbadi
>In article <D9Ero...@midway.uchicago.edu>,
>hazem el-abbadi <hela...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>>about putting an AC20 or an Arrow IV (placing the weapon in several adjacent
>>locations). I think the Compendium indicates you can. Someone else says you
>>can't. Who's right?
>
>such as Arrow IV, Long Tom and so on, can be split between two adjacent
>areas. This is in the Compendium, but I don't have it in front of me so I
>can't quote the page number. "Adjacent" means that the locations must be
>next to one another, such as the right torso and the right arm. The maximum
>number of critical spaces you can get with this method is 22, 12 in a torso
>and 10 in an arm. Even if you decided that the leg or center torso is also
>considered "adjacent", you can only get another 2 critical spaces this way.
>Because the Long Tom takes 30 critical spaces, the majority of Btech players
>usually say that it is impossible to mount a Long Tom on a BattleMech.
>Of course, this doesn't explain why the Compendium mentions the Long Tom
>when it describes splitting critical slots between locations. I suggest
>this is another example of FASA being a wee bit sloppy.
>
>
about putting things like Long Toms on mechs. It's on page 113. The way I
read it, it seems to be implying that, for example, the center torso and the
right (or left) torso are adjacent. Since the side torsos are also adjacent
to the arms, that means that you can use an arm, a side torso, and the center
torso for a Long Tom. That will give you the necessary 30 criticals. I
realize that putting a Long Tom on a mech looks very strange, and in any sane
environment it would probably be impossible (actually, look at the French
light tanks in Bosnia, the guns look almost bigger than the tanks themselves,
what does that say about sane designs), but I just wanted to see if there was
anything in the rules disallowing putting Long Toms on mechs.
Haz
Sadi Khan
>about putting an AC20 or an Arrow IV (placing the weapon in several adjacent
>locations). I think the Compendium indicates you can. Someone else says you
>can't. Who's right?
>
I know that there is a DropShip design that has a long tom on it... as far as
I am concerned, if you can somehow place a long tom in the center of a mech,
with the critspaces placed all throughout the torsos and head, it'll work.
- Sadi
Prabal Nandy
>I think these multi-legged platforms could prove to be a sufficiently stable
>mount for a Long Tom. If you're worried still about recoil, have the sucker
I thought it was written somewhere that the AC-20 and ARROWIIII were the
only 'splitable' weapons in the book... Can't find the quote anywheres
myself... FASA?
--
/| ________________ |pr...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu | Lord of the Flies
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\| | /Myops.home.html | Colony Mechworks
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Kevin E. Allen
>Is it possible to put a Long Tom on a mech, using a continuation of the rule
>about putting an AC20 or an Arrow IV (placing the weapon in several adjacent
>locations). I think the Compendium indicates you can. Someone else says you
>can't. Who's right?
BattleTechnology printed a design with an interesting theory a while
back... Called the Huntress, it sacrificed points of internal structure
to gain more critical slots in order to place (I think) a pair of Snipers
on the mech.
Though the concept does have some inherant problems, which I am sure
all the friendly people out there in R.G.M. land will be more than quick
to point out, it is an interesting idea.
- K. Allen
Robert J Chverchko
>Is it possible to put a Long Tom on a mech, using a continuation of the rule
>about putting an AC20 or an Arrow IV (placing the weapon in several adjacent
>locations). I think the Compendium indicates you can. Someone else says you
>can't. Who's right?
>
Darrin Lee Bright
hazem el-abbadi <hela...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> Well, I went back and found the part in the Compendium that talks
>about putting things like Long Toms on mechs. It's on page 113. The way I
>read it, it seems to be implying that, for example, the center torso and the
>right (or left) torso are adjacent. Since the side torsos are also adjacent
>to the arms, that means that you can use an arm, a side torso, and the center
>torso for a Long Tom. That will give you the necessary 30 criticals.
No it won't.
Right Torso: 12 crit spots
Right Arm: 10 crit spots (remove actuators)
Center Torso: 2 crit spots
Total: 24
Even if you took out ALL the actuators on the arm, you're still short. Even
if you consider the leg as "adjacent", you're still short. In short, you're
short no matter what you do. =)
My advice: Mount an Arrow IV and be done with it.
Brant Sponberg
>In article <D9Ero...@midway.uchicago.edu> hazem el-abbadi <hela...@midway.uchicago.edu> writes:
>>Is it possible to put a Long Tom on a mech, using a continuation of the rule
>>about putting an AC20 or an Arrow IV (placing the weapon in several adjacent
>>locations). I think the Compendium indicates you can. Someone else says you
>>can't. Who's right?
>>
>>Haz
>I know that there is a DropShip design that has a long tom on it... as far as
>I am concerned, if you can somehow place a long tom in the center of a mech,
>with the critspaces placed all throughout the torsos and head, it'll work.
>- Sadi
The dropship design you're referring to is the Fortress class
assault dropship. Heavily armored, heavily gunned and average in speed,
the Fortress can deliver a company of battlemechs, a company of tanks and
a lance of infantry onto a battlefield and back them up with its Long Tom
(carries no aerospace fighters, though). The largest assault dropship
ever built, the Fortress was and still is rare, and many often broke down
for a lack of spare parts. House Steiner is now producing upgraded
versions of the Fortress in "Technical Readout: 3057" that still carry
the old Long Tom (should have replaced it with a couple Arrow IV missile
artillery batteries IMHO). I love the Fortress dropship, but have to be
realistic about a mercenary unit actually owning one of these expensive
and rare monsters.
As for the debate on Long Toms in battlemechs, I would observe a
strict interpretation of the rules in which only two adjacent locations
could be used. Thus the largest number of critical hit space available to
any one weapon is 23 (12 from a side torso--minus an XL engine if you
mount one--and 11 from an arm with upper arm, lower arm and hand actuators
removed--like the Clan Wolf Naga artillery omnimech). I believe that the
largest (in terms of critical hit spaces) weapon one could then mount on a
mech is the Sniper artillery cannon (and one could mount two of these as
on the Huntress battlemech in "BattleTechnology" magazine--or does it
mount Thumpers?). Long Toms could not be mounted on battlemechs in a
campaign running under my rules interpretation. Obviously, though, the
rules are a little unclear and without verification from FASA, other
interpretations could be considered correct as well depending on the GM.
Realistically speaking, I think hydraulic recoil compensators,
like the kind used on modern Howitzers, would allow a Long Tom or
another large gun to be mounted on a battlemech, especially if it was
of the bird-legged variety like the Hollander, without knocking the
battlemech over. If I was the GM, I would assume these hydraulic recoil
compensators are part of the tonnage and critical hit cost of the Long
Tom or other large cannon itself.
There's my 2 cents...
******************************************************************************
___|[]|___
| |\ __ /| | Brant L. Sponberg, bls...@fas.harvard.edu
||| ()||| (Kommandant Ansgar Thorsson, Commander
(==_//_<>_\\_=== Ragnarok Combined Arms Mercenary Battalion
| || | \| Currently Stationed: Ender's Cluster
\_/\_/ Contract: Lyran Alliance
| || | ZEUS ZEU-9R Assignment: Bandit Hunting
/_\/_\ Target: Hsien Hotheads)
****************
******************************************************************************
Niclas Meier
seems to shout:" GET ME, GET ME !!!
I think you should create a tactic, and the create mechs fitting in it.
IMHO it's not very useful to crate mechs and then you got no use for it ..
Read U
hazem el-abbadi
cannot be build because, as someone said, you can't use weapons that take
more than 24 spaces). I created several tactics, even built up a whole
regimental doctrine, in which one battalion would be artillery mechs.
Since this mech cannot be built, I am forced to use Arrow IV mech
designs instead, which kind of sucks due to the much shorter range. With a
battalion of Long Tom mechs, a regiment involved in a siege would have a
devestating punch, and the Long Tom mechs would be in the rear, away from
most dangers (except from fighters, of course). No need to storm a defended
position if you could rain a few hundred Long Tom rounds a day at it.
Obviously, my artillery mechs were meant to work in groups, with other mechs
serving to protect them from enemies.
Haz