Mhing rules
J. R. Fitch
PLEASE RESPOND TO: quenell...@wanadoo.fr
"hello!
i need your help please...
i'm french, and i bought a few years ago a game :mhing
i think it's a card version of ma jong...
could you send me or tell me where i can find the rules of this game
(i need especially the name and the picture of each figure we can
make to win credits...
thank you very much and sorry for my english"
Tom Sloper
> This came to me but I cannot help.
I can. I know Mhing (see FAQ 7).
> PLEASE RESPOND TO: quenell...@wanadoo.fr
OK.
> [snip] i bought a few years ago a game :mhing
> i think it's a card version of ma jong...
Yes, it is. It's roughly akin to Western mah-jongg, in that the
players must make specific special hands.
> could you send me or tell me where i can find the rules of this game
(i need especially the name and > the picture of each figure we can
make to win credits...
quenelle.alexis, you will need to contact the publisher of Mhing to get
this. It's too bad you lost the rules AND all the special hand cards.
Only the publisher can supply those copyrighted materials for you.
It's manufactured by Suntex International Inc., 118 N. 3rd St.,
Easton, Pennsylvania, 18042, USA. Telephone (610) 253-5255.
Good luck! -- Tom
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Alan Kwan
wrote:
>quenelle.alexis, you will need to contact the publisher of Mhing to get
>this. It's too bad you lost the rules AND all the special hand cards.
>Only the publisher can supply those copyrighted materials for you.
Neither an old traditional "game" nor the list of special hands for it
can be copyrighted (nor patented, in the case of an *old traditional*
game). The publisher owns the copyright for their rules document, but
anyone is free to describe the rules of the game in his own words.
The publisher owns the copyright for their special hand cards, but
anyone is free to draw or write his own description of the list of
special hands.
(I hope I've got this right.)
"Live life with Heart." - Alan Kwan / ta...@notmenetvigator.com
http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot (hard-core video game reviews)
Tarot Games Hong Kong: http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot/com
(please remove anti-spam section "notme" from mailing address)
Tom Sloper
>>> (i need especially the name and the picture of each figure we can
make to win credits...
I had written:
>>quenelle.alexis, you will need to contact the publisher of Mhing to
get
>>this. It's too bad you lost the rules AND all the special hand cards.
>>Only the publisher can supply those copyrighted materials for you.
Alan wrote:
>Neither an old traditional "game" nor the list of special hands for it
can be copyrighted (nor patented, in the case of an *old traditional*
game).
Correct, provided that those hands were either (1) not copyrighted or
patented in the first place, or (2) the copyright or patent had expired
or been allowed to elapse (without timely renewal) by the author. In
the case of Mhing, the special hand cards are copyrighted, maintained
(still published) and owned by Suntex.
>The publisher owns the copyright for their rules document, but anyone
is free to describe the rules of the game in his own words.
Sure! Why not? Any volunteers?
>The publisher owns the copyright for their special hand cards, but
anyone is free to draw or write his own description of the list of
special hands.
>
>(I hope I've got this right.)
All well and good. But quenelle.alexis had asked for a "picture" of
the hands, and their names. I could scan the cards in my Mhing set,
but doing so would violate Suntex's copyright, and I open myself up to
legal action by doing that. Doing anything else (like retyping
everything, or drawing my own pictures) would be much too much work for
me.
If somebody else who has a copy of Mhing wants to retype everything for
him/her, and draw new pictures, or even risk legal action by scanning
everything, that does not show me to be wrong in what I said.
Cheers,
Alan Kwan
wrote:
>Alan wrote:
>>The publisher owns the copyright for their special hand cards, but
>>anyone is free to draw or write his own description of the list of
>>special hands.
>
>All well and good. But quenelle.alexis had asked for a "picture" of
>the hands, and their names.
Well, sometimes people are not exactly sure what they should be asking
for. ^_^ For example, "pictures" alone would not adequately describe
many mahjong or hanafuda hands (some text is needed). It can help
make it easier to understand if one is reading at late night, but it
isn't really necessary.
(Don't Mhing cards have names?)
>If somebody else who has a copy of Mhing wants to retype everything for
>him/her, and draw new pictures, or even risk legal action by scanning
>everything, that does not show me to be wrong in what I said.
I'm not disputing what you said, Tom. I just wanted to make it clear
what is (or can be) copyrighted and what is not.
Tom Sloper
>Well, sometimes people are not exactly sure what they should be asking
for. ^_^ For example, "pictures" alone would not adequately describe
many mahjong or hanafuda hands (some text is needed). It can help make
it easier to understand if one is reading at late night, but it isn't
really necessary.
Right. I tend to answer the question that's asked. I tend not to go
beyond and answer what's really intended (since I am usually not able
to read the asker's mind). I am /somewhat/ intuitive (according to my
personality profile as defined by Meyers-Briggs), but sometimes I
intuit ("guess") the wrong question. Thus I usually just answer what
is specifically asked. It's the responsibility of the asker (in my
opinion) to get the desired answer from me, by asking the exact
question they wanted answered in the first place.
>(Don't Mhing cards have names?)
I tend to answer the question that was asked. The cards are all
emblazoned with the name "Scoring Card for Mhing(R) Game."
Perhaps you wanted to know if the /hands/ have names? The answer to
that (if that was the question) is "yes." As I wrote before:
>>If somebody else who has a copy of Mhing wants to retype everything
for
>>him/her, and draw new pictures, or even risk legal action by scanning
>>everything, that does not show me to be wrong in what I said.
>
>I'm not disputing what you said, Tom. I just wanted to make it clear
what is (or can be) copyrighted and what is not.
Fair enough, Alan.
quenelle.alexis only asked for somebody (anybody) to give him/her
(sorry, I don't know if he is a she or if she is a he) all the rules
and special hands for Mhing. I still believe that the easiest solution
(for everyone) is for him/her to contact Suntex. I doubt that anyone
(other than Suntex) would want to go through all the work required to
give quenelle.alexis everything he/she asked for.
The question of what is protected under US copyright laws (or under the
international Berne Convention, for that matter) was only a tangential
matter that didn't need to be gone into in any detail. Copyright and
trademark are legal matters that I have gotten very interested in
through my work with Shanghai -- that, together with my tendency to
reply strictly to that which is explicitly asked, is what was behind
the wording of my answer. It's unfortunate, given the result, that I
mentioned it at all.
I have, as I have always had, the utmost respect for Alan. He's a math
whiz, a language whiz, and a mah-jongg whiz (and much more), all rolled
into one outstanding person (whom I sincerely hope to meet one day).
But copyright laws do vary somewhat from country to country (the Berne
Convention notwithstanding). We can debate here "what can and cannot
be copyrighted" all we want, but we won't be changing the laws in our
respective countries (much less universally) by doing so.
Alan Kwan
wrote:
>Alan wrote:
>>I'm not disputing what you said, Tom. I just wanted to make it clear
>what is (or can be) copyrighted and what is not.
>
>Fair enough, Alan.
That's really all I wanted to make clear ...
>quenelle.alexis only asked for somebody (anybody) to give him/her
>(sorry, I don't know if he is a she or if she is a he) all the rules
>and special hands for Mhing. I still believe that the easiest solution
>(for everyone) is for him/her to contact Suntex. I doubt that anyone
>(other than Suntex) would want to go through all the work required to
>give quenelle.alexis everything he/she asked for.
... nor am I implying that Tom (nor anyone else for that matter) is
obligated to go through all that work! We here all know that this is
a public forum in which information and opinion are freely exchanged.
Anyone is free to ask (relevant) questions, while anyone who answers
them are doing it out of his own goodwill and leisure. ^_^
And I too would recommend Quenelle to contact Suntex to get what
he/she wants. I just wanted to point out that Tom is not providing
the documents because it is impractical (inconvenient) for him to do
so (it's like re-inventing the wheel for him to compose the documents,
when they are already available through Suntex), and not because it is
illegal. It's pretty much the same reason as why I haven't written a
"Mah-jong basic rules of play" document on my homepage: I consider it
not worth my time and effort, when similar documents (and books) are
readily available everywhere. It's not because such document would
constitute copyright infringement against Perlmen & Chan or
Millington.
J. R. Fitch
[snip]
> It's pretty much the same reason as why I haven't written a
> "Mah-jong basic rules of play" document on my homepage: I consider it
> not worth my time and effort, when similar documents (and books) are
> readily available everywhere.
Ah, but is there a book anywhere which compares all the known
variations of mahjong? I don't think so, and no one could do it better
than you. It would be this century's definitive volume, a Millington
for the new millenium!
--
J. R. Fitch
Nine Dragons Software
351 Ulloa Street
San Francisco,
California 94127
415.664.3474 v.
415.564.3161 f.
http://www.ninedragons.com
jrf...@ninedragons.com
Alan Kwan
<jrf...@ninedragons.com> wrote:
>Alan Kwan wrote:
>
>[snip]
>> It's pretty much the same reason as why I haven't written a
>> "Mah-jong basic rules of play" document on my homepage: I consider it
>> not worth my time and effort, when similar documents (and books) are
>> readily available everywhere.
>
>Ah, but is there a book anywhere which compares all the known
>variations of mahjong? I don't think so, and no one could do it better
>than you. It would be this century's definitive volume, a Millington
>for the new millenium!
A non-critical comparison would be quite boring, while a critical one
would be too easy to disagree with. If one is playing a certain
mahjong version, it is largely futile to try to convince him that some
other version is better using words alone. The only true way to
realize the relative merits of different versions is to come to one's
own conclusions by playing the different versions a lot.
Anyway, for that topic, a 20KB text document should be enough. No one
would bother to read anything longer.
Tom Sloper
Sorry if I got all serious in that response. Sometimes I do that. I
ought to just go make funny faces in the mirror when I get those
impulses! (^_^)
Gareth J M Saunders
> (sorry, I don't know if he is a she or if she is a he) all the rules
> and special hands for Mhing.
I contacted her. She's a she. At least I hope the picture of a child in
Inverness in a skirt is a girl! ;-)
She has the rules and the scoring pad, just needed the information on the
sheets giving credits for the different hands, e.g. "One Credit for Sequence
Only Hand - no three-of-a-kind, just sequences, eg 1,2,3 Balls; 4,5,6 Balls;
6,7,8 Crack; 3,4,5 Bamboo; 4,4 Crack
I've sent her the information. Hey! I'm a priest - we only work one day a
week!! ;-)
Gareth
Tom Sloper
"Gareth J M Saunders" <gar...@gareth-and-jane-saunders.co.uk> wrote:
> I contacted her.
> She has the rules and the scoring pad, just needed the information on
the
> sheets giving credits for the different hands, e.g. "One Credit for
Sequence
> Only Hand - no three-of-a-kind, just sequences, eg 1,2,3 Balls; 4,5,6
Balls;
> 6,7,8 Crack; 3,4,5 Bamboo; 4,4 Crack
>
> I've sent her the information. Hey! I'm a priest - we only work one
day a
> week!! ;-)
Cool! Glad she got the info she needed.
Tom
--
Tom Sloper
mahj...@cyberspace.co.jp
Alan Kwan
<gar...@gareth-and-jane-saunders.co.uk> wrote:
>I've sent her the information. Hey! I'm a priest - we only work one day a
>week!! ;-)
But if you're a priest in an oriental society, this may get you
accused for "encouraging gambling"! ^_^
Gareth J M Saunders
> accused for "encouraging gambling"! ^_^
But *if*... just as well I'm not, isn't it! ;-) BTW we're trying to get a
MJ players club set up at the cathedral here in Inverness - so far we've got
4, inc. me. And not a penny exchanged between us!
--
g a r e t h:
:: Gareth J M Saunders
i n t e r n e t:
:: gar...@gareth-and-jane-saunders.co.uk
:: http://www.gareth-and-jane-saunders.co.uk
:: http://www.inverness-cathedral.org.uk
Alan Kwan
<gar...@gareth-and-jane-saunders.co.uk> wrote:
>> But if you're a priest in an oriental society, this may get you
>> accused for "encouraging gambling"! ^_^
>
>But *if*... just as well I'm not, isn't it! ;-) BTW we're trying to get a
>MJ players club set up at the cathedral here in Inverness - so far we've got
>4, inc. me. And not a penny exchanged between us!
If any priest tries to do the same thing in here, he'll be fired.
Pennies exchanged or not is immaterial.
The sad fact: in oriental societies, "mah-jong = gambling".
Nigel McQueen
> Pennies exchanged or not is immaterial.
>
> The sad fact: in oriental societies, "mah-jong = gambling".
Wow! That *is* sad. Which got me wondering: is there a similar thing here
in the west? I can't think of any offhand, but I guess there must be some
things which some have certain associations with some people.
G
Tom Sloper
> If any priest tries to do the same thing in here, he'll be fired.
> Pennies exchanged or not is immaterial.
>
> The sad fact: in oriental societies, "mah-jong = gambling".
True. See this Electronic Telegraph article about China trying to
corrupt Tibetan monks with mah-jongg and other things:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?
ac=000114832908976&rtmo=3mAA8BxM&atmo=mmmmmmmR&pg=/et/99/3/28/wchi28.htm
l
--
Tom Sloper
mahj...@cyberspace.co.jp
Albert Smith Jr
these messages and do not wish to receive any more thank You Duffers 2
Gareth J M Saunders wrote:
> > quenelle.alexis only asked for somebody (anybody) to give him/her
> > (sorry, I don't know if he is a she or if she is a he) all the rules
> > and special hands for Mhing.
>
> I contacted her. She's a she. At least I hope the picture of a child in
> Inverness in a skirt is a girl! ;-)
>
> She has the rules and the scoring pad, just needed the information on the
> sheets giving credits for the different hands, e.g. "One Credit for Sequence
> Only Hand - no three-of-a-kind, just sequences, eg 1,2,3 Balls; 4,5,6 Balls;
> 6,7,8 Crack; 3,4,5 Bamboo; 4,4 Crack
>
> I've sent her the information. Hey! I'm a priest - we only work one day a
> week!! ;-)
>
> Gareth