[ANNOUNCE] Lost Adventures of Topologika
Gunther Schmidl
previously unreleased adventure games, "Fyleet", "Crobe" and "Sangraal",
have been made available for your viewing pleasure on GMD.
This is what the author has to say about them:
"Personally, I am happy for people to convert the games for any system
they like, as long as they give due acknowledgements (and don't
attempt to make any money out of them without consulting me first!)"
The documentation for the database format can be found in
compiler_docs.txt -
So get hacking, already!
The files currently reside at ftp://ftp.gmd.de/incoming/if-archive and will
end up wherever Volker and David see fit :-)
More to come soon, hopefully.
--
Gunther Schmidl (gschmidl @ gmx . at)
Adam Atkinson
that may contain the source code to Nidus. Whilst not much of a game,
it's at least an example of the JGT/DJS language in use.
Will I be able to read these disks on a modern Mac? I understand the
way drive mechanisms on Macs work has changed in the last 15 years.
If modern Macs won't read them, what do I need to do?
--
Adam Atkinson (gh...@mistral.co.uk)
Quicksand or no, Carstairs, I've half a mind to struggle.
Matthew T. Russotto
Adam Atkinson <gh...@mistral.co.uk> wrote:
}I have some single density single sided Mac floppies from about 1985
}that may contain the source code to Nidus. Whilst not much of a game,
}it's at least an example of the JGT/DJS language in use.
}
}Will I be able to read these disks on a modern Mac? I understand the
}way drive mechanisms on Macs work has changed in the last 15 years.
Any Mac preceding the G3s can read them physically, but I think System
7.5 (or maybe even 7.1) is the last software that can handle them.
}If modern Macs won't read them, what do I need to do?
Use an older Mac.
--
Matthew T. Russotto russ...@pond.com
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue."
Adam Atkinson
>}Will I be able to read these disks on a modern Mac? I understand the
>}way drive mechanisms on Macs work has changed in the last 15 years.
>Any Mac preceding the G3s can read them physically, but I think System
>7.5 (or maybe even 7.1) is the last software that can handle them.
Hmm. Thanks. That doesn't sound too bad.
>}If modern Macs won't read them, what do I need to do?
>Use an older Mac.
Well, sure. But if the dividing line had turned out to be, say, the
Mac Classic or Mac SE I'd have been in trouble :-)
"pre-G3 with system 7.5 or older" doesn't sound too hard.
--
Adam Atkinson (gh...@mistral.co.uk)
What's yellow and equivalent to the Axiom of Choice? Zorn's lemon.
Adam Atkinson
>> Any Mac preceding the G3s can read them physically, but I think System
>> 7.5 (or maybe even 7.1) is the last software that can handle them.
> Right. System 8 got rid of MFS support, so I guess 7.5.5 would be the
>last rev of the Macintosh OS to support the old disk format. Apple's tech
>note on MFS is at:
Hmm. I'm in Brighton, UK. Anyone vaguely nearby who can help me out,
here?
--
Adam Atkinson (gh...@mistral.co.uk)
EXAKCIP
Simon 'tufty' Stapleton
> On 17-Jul-99 08:12:38, Neil K. said:
>
> >> Any Mac preceding the G3s can read them physically, but I think System
> >> 7.5 (or maybe even 7.1) is the last software that can handle them.
>
> > Right. System 8 got rid of MFS support, so I guess 7.5.5 would be the
> >last rev of the Macintosh OS to support the old disk format. Apple's tech
> >note on MFS is at:
>
> Hmm. I'm in Brighton, UK. Anyone vaguely nearby who can help me out,
> here?
Adam. I'm in London, have an - ahem - 'number' of older macs lying
around. I'd be perfectly willing to strip the data off and format
up into disk images, whatever. Email me if that's any use.
Simon
Matthew T. Russotto
Neil K. <fake...@anti-spam.address> wrote:
} russ...@wanda.vf.pond.com (Matthew T. Russotto) wrote:
}
}> Any Mac preceding the G3s can read them physically, but I think System
}> 7.5 (or maybe even 7.1) is the last software that can handle them.
}
} Right. System 8 got rid of MFS support, so I guess 7.5.5 would be the
}last rev of the Macintosh OS to support the old disk format. Apple's tech
}note on MFS is at:
}
I don't quite understand WHY they got rid of it. It's a
simple-as-dirt format, should be easy enough to support if only
through the Foreign File System interface. Doesn't make much of a
difference on machines which can't read a floppy, like my G3, though.
Neil K.
> I don't quite understand WHY they got rid of it. It's a
> simple-as-dirt format, should be easy enough to support if only
> through the Foreign File System interface. [...]
I'd guess they felt it wasn't worth their time. The fact that, as far as
I know, nobody has come out with a little freeware/shareware shim to
enable MFS support for OS 8 or higher suggests that there's really not a
whole lot of demand for such functionality.
- Neil K.
--
t e l a computer consulting + design * Vancouver, BC, Canada
web: http://www.tela.bc.ca/tela/ * email: tela @ tela.bc.ca
Graham Nelson
<URL:mailto:gsch...@xxx.gmx.at> wrote:
> With the generous aid of J. R. Partington, the sources to three of his
> previously unreleased adventure games, "Fyleet", "Crobe" and "Sangraal",
> have been made available for your viewing pleasure on GMD.
>
> This is what the author has to say about them:
> "Personally, I am happy for people to convert the games for any system
> they like, as long as they give due acknowledgements (and don't
> attempt to make any money out of them without consulting me first!)"
By a curious coincidence, Jonathan (Partington) was my topology
tutor at Cambridge...
--
Graham Nelson | gra...@gnelson.demon.co.uk | Oxford, United Kingdom
Adam Atkinson
>> This is what the author has to say about them:
>> "Personally, I am happy for people to convert the games for any system
>> they like, as long as they give due acknowledgements (and don't
>> attempt to make any money out of them without consulting me first!)"
>By a curious coincidence, Jonathan (Partington) was my topology
>tutor at Cambridge...
Aaanyway, Graham... How do we proceed from here? Try to port the
Partington games to Inform? Probably makes more sense than trying to
implement a djs/jgt compiler. I was wondering if I knew enough perl to
be able to run games directly from jrp1's source code, but I probably
don't. In any event, the full Frotz (or whatever) interface would be
nicer, wouldn't it?
Maybe I should start finally start learning Inform. Alternatively,
someone who already knows it can do the port and those of us with any
experience at all in djs/jgt language can try to answer questions if
and when. How many of us are there? Me. You? JGT and DJS _might_ be
willing to answer occasional technical questions about their compiler
and player programs.
--
Adam Atkinson (gh...@mistral.co.uk)
#include <disclaimer.h>
Gunther Schmidl
official freeware release of "Gateway to Karos", (c) Acornsoft and Derek R.
Haslam. Also "Castle of Riddles" and "Sphinx Adventure", the last three for
the BBC Micro.
--
+-----------------+---------------+------------------------------+
| Gunther Schmidl | ICQ: 22447430 | IF: http://sgu.home.dhs.org/ |
|-----------------+----------+----+------------------------------|
| gschmidl (at) gmx (dot) at | please remove the "xxx." to reply |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------+
Adam Atkinson
>And some more new stuff: Source code "XENO" by A. Jonathan Mestel
yay!
xeno is probably the hardest text adventure I've ever seen.
>, and the
>official freeware release of "Gateway to Karos", (c) Acornsoft and Derek R.
>Haslam. Also "Castle of Riddles" and "Sphinx Adventure", the last three for
>the BBC Micro.
also good news!
Daniel Schepler
> In article <1259.868T1485...@mistral.co.uk>, Adam Atkinson
> <URL:mailto:gh...@mistral.co.uk> wrote:
> > Aaanyway, Graham... How do we proceed from here? Try to port the
> > Partington games to Inform? Probably makes more sense than trying to
> > implement a djs/jgt compiler. I was wondering if I knew enough perl to
> > be able to run games directly from jrp1's source code, but I probably
> > don't. In any event, the full Frotz (or whatever) interface would be
> > nicer, wouldn't it?
>
> It'd be good to see something like a translator from this format to
> Inform. (AGT and Scott Adams have both been translated to Inform,
> so this is not an impossible idea.)
>
> It's marvellous to see these games revived, but the one I'd really
> like to take a crack at is Acheton. A hugely important game, now
> essentially never played and as a consequence almost unknown
> despite being (I believe) the earliest game written outside the USA.
> I spent some time a few years ago asking Thackray and Seal to allow
> me to make an Inform port, but they (very politely!) declined
> permission. I would still very much to make this port, if they
> could yet be persuaded. A labour of love, if you like.
>
> --
> Graham Nelson | gra...@gnelson.demon.co.uk | Oxford, United Kingdom
>
(Sorry, Graham, I still sometimes accidentally hit 'Reply' instead of
'Followup'.)
I just took a quick look at one of the source files, and it looks like
a translator program wouldn't be all that hard. I'd like to work on
one, unless somebody else has vehement objections.
--
Daniel Schepler "Please don't disillusion me. I
sche...@math.berkeley.edu haven't had breakfast yet."
-- Orson Scott Card
Graham Nelson
Graham Nelson
<URL:mailto:gh...@mistral.co.uk> wrote:
> On 18-Jul-99 15:53:15, Gunther Schmidl said:
> >And some more new stuff: Source code "XENO" by A. Jonathan Mestel
>
> yay!
>
> xeno is probably the hardest text adventure I've ever seen.
Well, Jonathan _is_ probably the only chess grandmaster to have
designed a work of interactive fiction...
Adam Atkinson
[Re djs/jgt games]
>It'd be good to see something like a translator from this format to
>Inform. (AGT and Scott Adams have both been translated to Inform,
>so this is not an impossible idea.)
Hmm. Well beyond my capabilities.
>It's marvellous to see these games revived, but the one I'd really
>like to take a crack at is Acheton.
Agreed.
> A hugely important game
Agreed. Still probably my favourite text adventure. (Though I'm sure
Curses would be if I'd played more of it! ;-)) I suspect various
elements of it would offend modern sensibilities, though.
>, now
>essentially never played and as a consequence almost unknown
>despite being (I believe) the earliest game written outside the USA.
This is my understanding, too.
>I spent some time a few years ago asking Thackray and Seal to allow
>me to make an Inform port, but they (very politely!) declined
>permission. I would still very much to make this port, if they
>could yet be persuaded. A labour of love, if you like.
It is possible that no-one has the source any more, though I'm not
sure about this. I believe the more obscure Phoenix games (i.e. those
not written by JRP1, JGT1 or DJS6) are likely to be lost - so that
would be Parc, Hezarin, Nidus and whatever Andrew Lipson's game was
called - I don't think that was finished when I left.
Fortunately, I still have my Acheton source printout. So if it comes
down to it we can type it in from that if/when we get permission.
I believe the "issue" re Acheton (and Murdac, Hamil, Avon, Quondam,
etc.) is that they are still notionally being sold by Topologika, even
though they are no longer mentioned on the company's web site. So
the authors alone probably _can't_ release the source code. I plan to
contact Topologika today and ask them what it would cost to buy out
their interest in Acheton. If it sounds affordable, I would buy it
from them and release it to if-archive under the same conditions as
the others - assuming this plan is acceptable to JGT1, DJS6 and JRP1.
What can their annual sales of a product they no longer admit to
having possibly be?
Aaanyway. If the price is low enough, I'll do the same thing re their
other titles. Do people think this plan makes sense? You can't ask a
company to give stuff away, after all. If they have shareholders, they
really can't do this. due diligence etc.
Personally, I'm less interested in Topologika games which never
existed on Phoenix, but I suppose some other people might be. There's
also the issue that the games written directly for the BBC (etc.) were
in a different language that I know nothing about - maybe only
slightly different from the Phoenix one? I don't know.
--
Adam Atkinson (gh...@mistral.co.uk)
"You know, I've gone to a lot of psychics, and they've told me a lot of
different things, but not one of them has ever told me 'You are an
undercover policewoman here to arrest me.'"
Gunther Schmidl
> could yet be persuaded. A labour of love, if you like.
Brian Kerslake of today's Topologika still sells it (and several others) for
almost any platform; the problem is he *doesn't* market this fact. Still, I
think we can be glad that Topologika hasn't gone the same way as several
other companies, i. e. not selling the games at all and disallowing any
distribution (Magnetic Scrolls, Level 9).
Unfortunately, the games are rather expensive, unless you happen to own an
Acorn machine (prices in Pounds Sterling)
Game BBC CPC PCW IBM Nimbus Atari RiscOS
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Countdown to Doom 15 15 15 15 15 15 } all
Return to Doom 15 15 15 15 15 15 } three
Philosopher's Quest 15 15 15 15 15 15 } 30
Acheton 15 15 15 15 15 15 } all two
Hamil 15 15 15 15 15 15 } 20
Last Days of Doom/Hezarin 20 20 20 20 20 20 15
Avon/Murdac 20 20 20 20 20 20 20
SpySnatcher 15 15 15 15 15 15 15
-------------------------------------------------------------------
However, if you order several, you get a significant discount if you ask for
it (25%). I guess they don't sell too well.
In latest news, Peter Killworth will be trying to go through _his_ sources
and try to uncover some more old games, and rumour has it that Adam has
something up his sleeve, too...
Paul David Doherty
Adam Atkinson <gh...@mistral.co.uk> wrote:
>On 18-Jul-99 23:51:51, Graham Nelson said:
>
>>I spent some time a few years ago asking Thackray and Seal to allow
>>me to make an Inform port, but they (very politely!) declined
>>could yet be persuaded. A labour of love, if you like.
>
>sure about this. I believe the more obscure Phoenix games (i.e. those
>not written by JRP1, JGT1 or DJS6) are likely to be lost - so that
>would be Parc, Hezarin, Nidus and whatever Andrew Lipson's game was
>called
Xerb
> - I don't think that was finished when I left.
JGT1 has the Acheton source, and JRP1 may have Parc and Hezarin.
Also, John Rennie seems to have the Parc source on an old IBM tape
(but no means of reading it). Rod Underwood may still have the
Quondam source on paper, unless he lost it. Xerb seems to be lost
(or at least I didn't manage to track down Andrew Lipson to ask
him about it...).
>I believe the "issue" re Acheton (and Murdac, Hamil, Avon, Quondam,
>etc.) is that they are still notionally being sold by Topologika, even
>though they are no longer mentioned on the company's web site. So
>the authors alone probably _can't_ release the source code. I plan to
>contact Topologika today and ask them what it would cost to buy out
>their interest in Acheton. If it sounds affordable, I would buy it
>from them and release it to if-archive under the same conditions as
>the others - assuming this plan is acceptable to JGT1, DJS6 and JRP1.
>What can their annual sales of a product they no longer admit to
>having possibly be?
I would guess sales figures are 1 or 2 per game and year. I think
Steve Tinney (co-author of Hezarin) said the overall royalties he
received were something like 3 or 4 pounds...
-- Dave
Torbjörn Andersson
> It's marvellous to see these games revived, but the one I'd really
> like to take a crack at is Acheton. A hugely important game, now
> essentially never played and as a consequence almost unknown
> despite being (I believe) the earliest game written outside the USA.
Could someone please give a brief description of what Acheton is
about? At least until recently, the only reference I've seen to it is
the one in the introduction to the Inform Designer's Manual.
Torbjörn
Gunther Schmidl
> other titles. Do people think this plan makes sense?
I certainly do. You're right (I said this in an earlier post, but will
repeat here) -- how much *can* Topologika earn from practically non-existent
games? Searching for "Topologika" doesn't turn up too many websites, and
I've found exactly four dealing with the old IF games.
One is Italian (and therefore incomprehensible to me);
One is J. R. Partington's private homepage;
One is Paul David Doherty's page (he seems to know and have *everything*);
And the last one is Stephen Granade's IF page, where he runs a feature on
Topologika based on the idea to present less-known companies to the
"public", inspired by me; and the feature, in turn, inspired *me* to ask the
authors about "lost" games. The circle closes --
> Personally, I'm less interested in Topologika games which never
> existed on Phoenix, but I suppose some other people might be. There's
> also the issue that the games written directly for the BBC (etc.) were
> in a different language that I know nothing about - maybe only
> slightly different from the Phoenix one? I don't know.
There's always emulation, fortunately. Let's just try to get as many of
these up as we can - there's always someone collecting (like me, or P. D.
Doherty :-)
*sigh* Now I wish I'd brought that up *before* I bought the games - but at
least, I can provide hint sheets, manuals etc. if Adam can get the games
released. See that other posting for what's available.
And, again, latest news: "BrandX" is the next addition to the source code
archive, thanks to A. J. Mestel and P. Killworth.
SE
Andersson) wrote:
>Could someone please give a brief description of what Acheton is
>about? At least until recently, the only reference I've seen to it is
>the one in the introduction to the Inform Designer's Manual.
Jonathan Partington has a description of Acheton (or an introduction
to the game at least) on his pages. You can find it here:
http://www.amsta.leeds.ac.uk/~pmt6jrp/personal/acheton.txt
Cheers,
Steve Evans
Sanders
<gra...@gnelson.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <1259.868T1485...@mistral.co.uk>, Adam Atkinson
><URL:mailto:gh...@mistral.co.uk> wrote:
>> Aaanyway, Graham... How do we proceed from here? Try to port the
>> Partington games to Inform? Probably makes more sense than trying to
>> implement a djs/jgt compiler. I was wondering if I knew enough perl to
>> be able to run games directly from jrp1's source code, but I probably
>> don't. In any event, the full Frotz (or whatever) interface would be
>> nicer, wouldn't it?
>
>It'd be good to see something like a translator from this format to
>Inform. (AGT and Scott Adams have both been translated to Inform,
>so this is not an impossible idea.)
Is the AGT translator available at gmd? I looked, but couldn't locate
it. The reason I ask is because I have the complete/registered version
of Sue Medley's "Oklib's Revenge" that I wouldn't mind translating to
inform. Any info. appreciated.
Cordially,
Paul
Adam Atkinson
>Could someone please give a brief description of what Acheton is
>about? At least until recently, the only reference I've seen to it is
>the one in the introduction to the Inform Designer's Manual.
It's not _really_ "about" anything. In the tradition of Advent and
Dungeon, it's structured as a "collect the treasures and get into the
endgame" game.
It's quite large. The beginning is deliberately like the first few
locations of Advent, as a joke or homage. This has led to at least one
reviewer claiming that it's just a port of Advent, which is simply not
true.
After a smallish initial section, the game suddenly branches out
massively, which means you have loads of things to investigate. There
are some splendidly evil mazes - not just the "drop the objects to
make the rooms different" kind, of course.
--
Adam Atkinson (gh...@mistral.co.uk)
"Our royal family died out because the last queen was impregnable."
"No, she was unbearable." "No, she was inconceivable."
Gunther Schmidl
niall...@my-deja.com
> I spent some time a few years ago asking
Thackray and Seal to allow
> me to make an Inform port, but they (very
politely!) declined
> permission. I would still very much to make
this port, if they
> could yet be persuaded. A labour of love, if
you like.
>
Acheton was a wonderful game - I played it here in
Ireland many years ago.
If anyone needs help with this I'd be glad to
volunteer.
Niall
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Gunther Schmidl
and "Mirror of Khoronz" (and all these actually work this time! wow!) are
now up for those whose BBC emulators can't handle .INF files.
Gateway and Mirror include docs and hints on the disk; either boot them or
type CH."Menu" to start. The other two are either booted or started with
CH."LOADER".