Looking for writers
Peter Pears
I'll post to both)
Ok, I hope I'm not getting in over my head. This was a spur-of-the-
moment decision, which I hope I don't regret.
So here's the deal. I am not very good at coming up with stories, or
puzzles, or even concepts. However, from time to time, I do get some
flashes of what could be interesting. And occasionally I flesh them
out, because they seem promising. And before long I have the rough
layout of an entire game, even an idea of what some of the obstacles
might be.
Now, it took me a long time to realise this, but realise it I must.
It's not that I can't write - I can. But not well enough to carry a
full-length game. I have two concepts in my head, one of them has been
there for years. They're fairly epic (one moreso than the other), and
mostly linear (but with a lot of space for development).
I've had it. I want to see these stories out there. But I can't do it
myself. I simply lack the writing skill. At best, I tend to be
verbose. At worst, I simply can't convey what I intended.
So I'm actively looking for writers who would be willing to, on a
first bases, listen to these concepts - these outlines - and decide
whether they would like to help me flesh them out. I would be glad to
do the programming myself and write some of the more menial stuff like
descriptions. I have very strong ideas on game design, but I'd like to
to able to discuss them with whoever I would be working with, so as to
arrive to some sort of middle ground if there are disagreements. I'm
very bad at coming up with puzzles, so they'd also be mainly in the
hands of my collaborator, though I'd be more than happy to brainstorm.
I do NOT want to split this equally in half, with me programming and
someone else writing. I want to be a part of the creative process.
However, my collaborator would be free to write as he/she pleased, and
would be free to suggest anything. I'm not dumb - I know that, if I
could do this by myself, I wouldn't need anyone else, and since I *do*
need someone else, the intelligent thing to do is to give that
"someone else" all the space they need. I promise space, as long as
the collaborator understands that these concepts are my babies, and
I'd like to see them grow and flesh out.
One of the stories, the biggest one, is fairly epic. It's Sci-Fi.
It's, I think, a fair amount more interesting than most "epic sci-fi"s
out there, but what do I know, I'm biased. :)
The other one is more fantastical, and allows for episodic release,
which was how I planned to release it (if I ever got anything done but
the first couple of rooms and an outline, that is).
Ok, I know everyone has an outline, and everyone has a project of
their own. But I also know that if you want to see a project through
and you can't do it yourself, you should be humble enough to ask for
help. It seemed harmless enough to try. :) Anyone interested please e-
mail me at peter...@hotmail.com, and we should be able to discuss
the matter further.
Bottom line - I'm looking for partnership, not dictatorship. This goes
both ways - I do not intend to be a dictator.
Andrew Owen
> I've had it. I want to see these stories out there. But I can't do it
> myself. I simply lack the writing skill. At best, I tend to be
> verbose. At worst, I simply can't convey what I intended.
Hemmingway said: "The first draft of everything is shit". Write the
whole thing down without pausing to edit, then revise, revise revise.
> So I'm actively looking for writers who would be willing to, on a
> first bases, listen to these concepts - these outlines - and decide
> whether they would like to help me flesh them out.
By all means get involved in collaborative writing. But you're
probably going to need to produce something of your own first to
convince other writers that it's worth collaborating with you.
As far as story goes, I recommend Aristotle's Poetics. It's short and
to the point and won't steer you wrong. I also advise getting to the
third draft before you write a single line of code.
Regards
-Andrew
Peter Pears
> On Apr 19, 12:14 pm, Peter Pears <peter_pe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've had it. I want to see these stories out there. But I can't do it
> > myself. I simply lack the writing skill. At best, I tend to be
> > verbose. At worst, I simply can't convey what I intended.
>
> Hemmingway said: "The first draft of everything is shit". Write the
> whole thing down without pausing to edit, then revise, revise revise.
Oh, I've tried it. Thanks for your advice, but really, if it's left to
me, these stories simply won't see the light of day. Which I think
it's a shame, they're nice stories. But I can't tell them.
> > So I'm actively looking for writers who would be willing to, on a
> > first bases, listen to these concepts - these outlines - and decide
> > whether they would like to help me flesh them out.
>
> By all means get involved in collaborative writing. But you're
> probably going to need to produce something of your own first to
> convince other writers that it's worth collaborating with you.
Oh, I can produce plenty. Directly related to these stories, I can
produce what I actually coded for one of those projects (only one
room, as I was involved in another WIP, one to get me familiar with
Inform 7, but the source code is commented with pretty much the
outline of the story). I can produce also the WIP I used to get
familiar with Inform 7, and *that* will show very quickly what is to
be expected of me (since it's a remake of a graphical adventure, it
also shows that, indeed, I have a fault at telling stories, much as I
like them - which neatly brings us back to the start of this
thread. :) ).
> As far as story goes, I recommend Aristotle's Poetics. It's short and
> to the point and won't steer you wrong. I also advise getting to the
> third draft before you write a single line of code.
I have met its acquaintance, though I've never read it in full, and I
recall its main principles. I appreciate (I really do!) your trying to
help me do these things myself, but I simply can't. It's been years of
trying. Best to accept facts, really. I just wouldn't like these
stories to go to waste, is all.
S. John Ross
> So I'm actively looking for writers who would be willing to, on a
> first bases, listen to these concepts - these outlines - and decide
> whether they would like to help me flesh them out.
Hope the search works out for you; it sounds like a tough one. There's
no shortage of writers, but the trouble is any writer worth his salt
tends to have a wobbling stack of his own ideas to develop ...
Andrew Owen
> > Hemmingway said: "The first draft of everything is shit". Write the
> > whole thing down without pausing to edit, then revise, revise revise.
>
> Oh, I've tried it. Thanks for your advice, but really, if it's left to
> me, these stories simply won't see the light of day. Which I think
> it's a shame, they're nice stories. But I can't tell them.
Good writers hate everything they write. You're probably better than
you think. And they are your stories. No-one else can tell them. Write
them down and then ask for criticism rather than asking for someone
else to write them.
> > As far as story goes, I recommend Aristotle's Poetics. It's short and
> > to the point and won't steer you wrong. I also advise getting to the
> > third draft before you write a single line of code.
>
> I have met its acquaintance, though I've never read it in full, and I
> recall its main principles. I appreciate (I really do!) your trying to
> help me do these things myself, but I simply can't. It's been years of
> trying. Best to accept facts, really. I just wouldn't like these
> stories to go to waste, is all.
Well I'd write a plot summary and post it ti r.a.i-f and then people
are free to plunder it if they want. I wish you luck with it in any
case.
-Andrew
Peter Pears
have what I wanted, and none more need apply, and thanks all! If the
situation changes, I'll post again (after all, skeptic as I was myself
- it worked!)
Poster
<efabaa3b-482b-469e...@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
Peter Pears <peter...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> (ARTS or GAMES? Hmmm, I don't really know where this applies. Guess
> I'll post to both)
>
> Ok, I hope I'm not getting in over my head. This was a spur-of-the-
> moment decision, which I hope I don't regret.
>
> So here's the deal. I am not very good at coming up with stories, or
> puzzles, or even concepts. However, from time to time, I do get some
> flashes of what could be interesting. And occasionally I flesh them
> out, because they seem promising. And before long I have the rough
> layout of an entire game, even an idea of what some of the obstacles
> might be.
>
> Now, it took me a long time to realise this, but realise it I must.
> It's not that I can't write - I can. But not well enough to carry a
> full-length game. I have two concepts in my head, one of them has been
> there for years. They're fairly epic (one moreso than the other), and
> mostly linear (but with a lot of space for development).
>
> I've had it. I want to see these stories out there. But I can't do it
> myself. I simply lack the writing skill. At best, I tend to be
> verbose. At worst, I simply can't convey what I intended.
While I understand your motivation and actually resonate with it, I
think starting with a smaller idea might be better. That way you can get
a taste for how collaborations work. I know my first musical
collaboration was a real learning experience -- it went down in flames.
--
Poster
www.intaligo.com I6 libraries, doom metal, Building, Zegrothenus
sturmdrangif.wordpress.com Game development blog / IF commentary
Seasons: Q4 '11 -- One-man projects are prone to delays.
Peter Pears
> In article
> <efabaa3b-482b-469e-9ba7-b91002fab...@g30g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
Thanks for the advice, honestly, but I've tried it. :) In fact, one of
the stories I mean was supposed to be episodic, with each episode
being a relatively small, contained world in itself. I figured if I
couldn't do something big (size isn't the problem, I ported Leisure
Suit Larry 2 to a point and click interface using AGS and all of the
original graphics and animations. Boy was I patient back then!), it
would be wiser to do, at least, one introduction-like episode, and
then release it, and see what happened.
No go. I'm simply not the creator type. I've noticed this before in
other areas, so I might as well get used to the idea. :)
John Dillard
> So here's the deal. I am not very good at coming up with stories, or
> puzzles, or even concepts.
And, so, logically, you choose to work within Interactive FICTION.
Which is predicated upon stories and puzzles.
> Now, it took me a long time to realise this, but realise it I must.
> It's not that I can't write - I can. But not well enough to carry a
> full-length game.
So can you write well enough to carry a "medium-length game"? What's a
"full-length game" so I have something to compare?
> I've had it. I want to see these stories out there. But I can't do it
> myself. I simply lack the writing skill. At best, I tend to be
> verbose. At worst, I simply can't convey what I intended.
So what makes you think you'll be able to do this to somebody else?
You'll have to convey your intent to the person who now is going to
write your work and program it.
Peter Pears
> On Apr 19, 6:14 am, Peter Pears <peter_pe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So here's the deal. I am not very good at coming up with stories, or
> > puzzles, or even concepts.
>
> And, so, logically, you choose to work within Interactive FICTION.
> Which is predicated upon stories and puzzles.
I play more than I work. I program fairly well. I played enough to
predict what most players would want to see. All I lack is the
storytelling ability. :) Perfect for collaboration, really.
> > Now, it took me a long time to realise this, but realise it I must.
> > It's not that I can't write - I can. But not well enough to carry a
> > full-length game.
>
> So can you write well enough to carry a "medium-length game"? What's a
> "full-length game" so I have something to compare?
Not well enough to carry a game to completion, then, if you want to
split hairs.
> > I've had it. I want to see these stories out there. But I can't do it
> > myself. I simply lack the writing skill. At best, I tend to be
> > verbose. At worst, I simply can't convey what I intended.
>
> So what makes you think you'll be able to do this to somebody else?
> You'll have to convey your intent to the person who now is going to
> write your work and program it.
It's one thing to sumarise a story. It's quite another thing to tell
it, decide where to start, what to say, what to leave unsaid, what to
foreshadow, what to leave optional for the curious player, et all. I
actually thought this would have been quite obvious.
Also, I intend to do the programming and help brainstorm design and
story, like I said. Because, despite what you seem to be reading, I am
not one of those "Wow I have a great game now please someone help me
make it!!!1!" types. I'm looking for help to tell my stories, is all.
And in order to keep it fair, I'm giving my collaborators as much
freedom as they want to rewrite what they like, just as long as those
stories become useful - they're *not* useful while they're locked up
in my head.
ChicagoDave
> both ways - I do not intend to be a dictator.
I feel somewhat of a similar pain, although I truly believe I can
create a good story and game if I had more time. Since I will have
more time starting this summer, this may be the first year I submit a
comp game in 12 years. Looking forward to it, actually.
In any case, your dilemma is really challenging in the IF world
because IF people are hard to herd than cats. Even if you find a
willing cat, getting it see things in a non-dictatorial way is nearly
impossible. There's a rare symbiotic relationship that comes from
partnering a designer and a writer and the personalities involved have
to have a deep understanding of IF craft.
In your case, you want to be the lead designer. I think this is
laudilble. If you think you have a good idea for a game, you should be
encouraged to implement it, even if you need help.
You may want to review a document I created recently for non-IF
writers.
https://www.textfyre.com/Writing%20for%20the%20Interactive%20Fiction%20Medium.pdf
It may help you with the design side a bit. I had been planning to
create another document called A Templated Design for Interactive
Fiction, which is a template for outlining the details of a game
without writing prose or code. We've done things this way with both
Secret Letter and Shadow and it has worked extremely well. You still
have to have a strong understanding of craft. The template will be
meaningless if you don't know how to create an IF setting well, how to
construct puzzles, to change the pace of the game, to implement
various kinds of conversations. These are all well out of scope of a
design templete.
I've written about this on my IF blog at http://chicagodave.wordpress.com.
I will continue to write more there.
David C.
www.textfyre.com