Re: Importing Transcripts From Past Sessions

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Andrew Plotkin

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Apr 13, 2007, 4:35:42 PM4/13/07
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Here, Nate <nates...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This is probably a dumb question but is it possible to load saved
> transcripts into the Interpreter? I find that I don't have time to
> play the entire game in one sitting and so I save my game and my
> transcript but when I come back and restore I can only restore my
> place in the game but I can't recover the text of what I've already
> done and seen.
>
> It seems logical that a game save would also save your transcript but
> it doesn't, at least not in Spatterlight. Do people just save
> multiple transcripts and refer back to all the different files as they
> play?

I think most people are used to not referring to transcripts much at
all. I don't. I don't scroll back that far in my window, either. I
mean, I flip back a couple of pages, but I never think "Hey, I could
go back and see how the game started."

(I suppose if I'm that curious, I "save" and then restart the game.)

It's not a stupid request by any means; I think that a lot of us were
subtly conditioned by machines of our youth (64K RAM and barely any
more disk space). There's no reason why the interpreter couldn't do
this. (The common save-file format could allow it as an extension.)
However, I don't know if there are any interpreters that do.

(It should probably be an interpreter option, because people might be
used to the old scrollback *not* changing after a "restore".)

--Z

--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
If the Bush administration hasn't thrown you in military prison without trial,
it's for one reason: they don't feel like it. Not because you're an American.

JDC

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Apr 13, 2007, 6:12:13 PM4/13/07
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On Apr 13, 4:35 pm, Andrew Plotkin <erkyr...@eblong.com> wrote:

> Here, Nate <natesea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > This is probably a dumb question but is it possible to load saved
> > transcripts into the Interpreter? I find that I don't have time to
> > play the entire game in one sitting and so I save my game and my
> > transcript but when I come back and restore I can only restore my
> > place in the game but I can't recover the text of what I've already
> > done and seen.
>
> > It seems logical that a game save would also save your transcript but
> > it doesn't, at least not in Spatterlight. Do people just save
> > multiple transcripts and refer back to all the different files as they
> > play?
>
> I think most people are used to not referring to transcripts much at
> all. I don't. I don't scroll back that far in my window, either. I
> mean, I flip back a couple of pages, but I never think "Hey, I could
> go back and see how the game started."
>
> (I suppose if I'm that curious, I "save" and then restart the game.)
>
> It's not a stupid request by any means; I think that a lot of us were
> subtly conditioned by machines of our youth (64K RAM and barely any
> more disk space). There's no reason why the interpreter couldn't do
> this. (The common save-file format could allow it as an extension.)
> However, I don't know if there are any interpreters that do.
>
> (It should probably be an interpreter option, because people might be
> used to the old scrollback *not* changing after a "restore".)

I think the latest version of Zoom is implementing the skein
functionality from the I7 IDE (or is in the process of doing so? I
haven't actually checked, but I recall seeing a "save skein" menu
option). If so, you should be able to save the commands from a session
and then replay them to recover the transcript.

I also tend not to scrollback very far, unless I think I'm in a timed
situation, etc. and want to check a room description or something.

-JDC

Nate

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Apr 13, 2007, 7:32:37 PM4/13/07
to

Thanks to both of you. Galatea is the only game I've played so far
and it is very short so this didn't really matter. I've started a
longer, more traditional exploring game and I had this sinking feeling
that I would need to refer back to my transcripts in the future
because I had missed something but it sounds like that isn't such a
big deal. I guess I just need to keep playing and not worry about it.

Emily Short

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Apr 13, 2007, 11:46:11 PM4/13/07
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On Apr 13, 6:32 pm, "Nate" <natesea...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks to both of you. Galatea is the only game I've played so far
> and it is very short so this didn't really matter. I've started a
> longer, more traditional exploring game and I had this sinking feeling
> that I would need to refer back to my transcripts in the future
> because I had missed something but it sounds like that isn't such a
> big deal. I guess I just need to keep playing and not worry about it.

Lots of people do take notes or make maps while playing the more
puzzle-oriented games. Depending on how you feel about note-taking,
this can either be fun or kind of a burden, but it tends to be more
efficient than going back over past transcripts to remember the
password you saw 250 turns ago.

I mostly use notes when I think I'm going to need information later in
gameplay, and keep transcripts only if I'm planning to review the game
and want to be able to refer back to specific interactions in my
review.

Nikos Chantziaras

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Apr 14, 2007, 7:46:04 AM4/14/07
to
Nate wrote:
> [...]

> Galatea is the only game I've played so far
> and it is very short so this didn't really matter. I've started a
> longer, more traditional exploring game and I had this sinking feeling
> that I would need to refer back to my transcripts in the future
> because I had missed something but it sounds like that isn't such a
> big deal. I guess I just need to keep playing and not worry about it.

You can just instruct the interpreter to save the transcript to a text
file "live" (as you play; output will be appended to the text file as
you go along in the game). You'll need a new text file for each game
session though.

Jacek Pudlo

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Apr 14, 2007, 8:42:24 AM4/14/07
to
"Emily Short"


You remind me of a cat who returns the place where she has once soiled
herself. Is that why you keep revisiting the scene of your crime? To catch a
whiff of your urine? I think I can help you with that. Just klick this link.


http://groups.google.se/group/rec.games.int-fiction/browse_thread/thread/fc1cc22ec5ef0a1e/98b5e2e2fa621121?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=sv#98b5e2e2fa621121


The sarcasm aside, please remove yourself from this forum.


Bert Byfield

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Apr 14, 2007, 8:53:00 AM4/14/07
to
> "Emily Short"
> You remind me of a cat who returns the place where she has once
> soiled herself. Is that why you keep revisiting the scene of your
> crime? To catch a whiff of your urine? I think I can help you with
> that. Just klick this link.
> http://groups.google.se/group/rec.games.int-fiction/browse_thread/t
> hread/fc1cc22ec5ef0a1e/98b5e2e2fa621121?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=sv#98b5
> e2e2fa621121

It's a lot of boring speculation on whether you speak German or Polish
better than you speak Japanese. Did you love all that attention? Did
you feel bad when they stopped talking about you and went on with their
lives without you?

> The sarcasm aside, please remove yourself from this forum.

You know you live for her. Confess it!


John W. Kennedy

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Apr 14, 2007, 9:55:22 AM4/14/07
to

He knows she'll never accept his habit of setting kittens on fire and
masturbating while they burn.

--
John W. Kennedy
"I want everybody to be smart. As smart as they can be. A world of
ignorant people is too dangerous to live in."
-- Garson Kanin. "Born Yesterday"
* TagZilla 0.066 * http://tagzilla.mozdev.org

Jacek Pudlo

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Apr 14, 2007, 10:22:26 AM4/14/07
to
"Bert Byfield"

>> "Emily Short"
>> You remind me of a cat who returns the place where she has once
>> soiled herself. Is that why you keep revisiting the scene of your
>> crime? To catch a whiff of your urine? I think I can help you with
>> that. Just klick this link.
>> http://groups.google.se/group/rec.games.int-fiction/browse_thread/t
>> hread/fc1cc22ec5ef0a1e/98b5e2e2fa621121?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=sv#98b5
>> e2e2fa621121
>
> It's a lot of boring speculation on whether you speak German or Polish
> better than you speak Japanese.

She also insinuated that I'm a child pornographer.

> Did you love all that attention?

No. Would you?

> Did
> you feel bad when they stopped talking about you and went on with their
> lives without you?

I felt bad when no one objected to Short's slander. I felt bad when no one
came to my defense. I felt bad when *everybody* ganged up on me, despite the
absurdity of the innuendo. I don't want *anyone* to feel the way I felt
then.

>> The sarcasm aside, please remove yourself from this forum.
>
> You know you live for her. Confess it!

A and B both work at Walmart. A hates B's guts. A insinuates publicly that B
is a child pornographer. A makes sure all co-workers hear the insinuation,
including B. The insinuation is false and groundless. A is fired the same
day.

Why should a member of the IF community not enjoy the same protection from
slander as does any employee of Walmart? Yes, we can't fire Short, but we
can do the next closest thing -- we can ostracise her. That way what
happened to me will never happen to you.


Bert Byfield

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Apr 14, 2007, 12:17:21 PM4/14/07
to
>>> "Emily Short"
>>> You remind me of a cat who returns the place where she has once
>>> soiled herself. Is that why you keep revisiting the scene of
>>> your crime? To catch a whiff of your urine? I think I can help
>>> you with that. Just klick this link.
>>> http://groups.google.se/group/rec.games.int-fiction/browse_thread
>>> /thread/fc1cc22ec5ef0a1e/98b5e2e2fa621121?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1&hl=sv#98
>>> b5 e2e2fa621121

>> It's a lot of boring speculation on whether you speak German or
>> Polish better than you speak Japanese.

> She also insinuated that I'm a child pornographer.

Why can't you post a link to that???

>> Did you love all that attention?

> No. Would you?

No. But I wouldn't obsess and rage for years over it, either.

>> Did
>> you feel bad when they stopped talking about you and went on with
>> their lives without you?

> I felt bad when no one objected to Short's slander. I felt bad
> when no one came to my defense. I felt bad when *everybody* ganged
> up on me, despite the absurdity of the innuendo. I don't want
> *anyone* to feel the way I felt then.

You have been so rude on so many occasions, that you have made everyone
not even care what the original problem was.

>>> The sarcasm aside, please remove yourself from this forum.

>> You know you live for her. Confess it!

> A and B both work at Walmart. A hates B's guts. A insinuates
> publicly that B is a child pornographer. A makes sure all
> co-workers hear the insinuation, including B. The insinuation is
> false and groundless. A is fired the same day.

None of this happened.

> Why should a member of the IF community not enjoy the same
> protection from slander as does any employee of Walmart? Yes, we
> can't fire Short, but we can do the next closest thing -- we can
> ostracise her. That way what happened to me will never happen to
> you.

There is no "we." You are talking for your own benefit, and no one
agrees with you. Why is that? Because you are obviously rude and
obsessed. "We can't fire Short" is silly because no one wants to fire
her. You want to marry her and run away to Paris to make oil paintings
together, but that isn't going to happen either. "We" can ostracise
her... But you are the only one interested in doing that, ane even you
don't mean it. *You* aren't ostracising her. You talk about her every
day to anyone who will listen.
And the idea that you are being rude to save everyone else is silly.
No one will believe that except yourself, and even you don't really
want to be saved.
If you lived near her in real life, you would be following her
around, stalking her, a rejected lover, dreaming your life away,
singing "On the Street Where You live" tra la la. That isn't how you
get a woman in real life, even if it did work for Freddy in *My Fair
Lady*. And having a woman in real life is what you need.
Fantasy women are very attractive. I used to be in love with that
priestess babe in the Temple of the Mushroom Cloud in *Wasteland* (the
world's all-time greatest game). I tried to hire her in every
conceivable way. All my efforts failed, but I just gave it up -- I
didn't go into "sour grapes" mode and tell everyone that she was awful.
You should try to move on. I suppose you can't, though. Obsession is
like that.


Adam Thornton

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Apr 14, 2007, 2:11:14 PM4/14/07
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In article <w35Uh.1$wi...@newsfe12.lga>,

John W. Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>He knows she'll never accept his habit of setting kittens on fire and
>masturbating while they burn.

I've heard of the phrase "the world is your oyster," but are you
insinuating that Nero regarded Rome as a kitten?

Adam

John W. Kennedy

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Apr 14, 2007, 6:09:59 PM4/14/07
to

Gee, and I didn't even have to bring up quizzing emeralds....

Mano alle funi, alle belve, alle donne!
Tutte un Eroe denudator le abbranchi,
Le avvinca nude in groppa al furiale
Nembo de tauri, ebbre d’orror, fugate
Dai veltri in caccia, irte di dardi, esangui,
Belle, riverse, i grembi al sol, nel raggio
Del concavo smeraldo agonizzanti.
-- Boito

"I did not have sex with those children."
-- Jerkit Dickdown

Adam Thornton

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Apr 15, 2007, 2:28:56 AM4/15/07
to
In article <ejcUh.50$4S1...@newsfe12.lga>,

John W. Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>Mano alle funi, alle belve, alle donne!
...
> -- Boito

"His ''Nerone,'' in spite of moments of genuine grandeur and poetry, is
for long, depressing stretches nothing but Mussolini music. For
flatulence and empty rhetoric, it even outdoes Wagner's ''Rienzi,''
another operatic Chimera that Miss Queler likes to let out of its cave
now and again."

(http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9803E5DE1039F937A25757C0A964948260)

As I consider myself something of an expert in flatulence and empty
rhetoric, I do indeed thank you for providing this most excellent
pointer, although it is one I find no current need to dereference.

Adam

Andrew Plotkin

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Apr 15, 2007, 1:49:46 PM4/15/07
to
Here, Adam Thornton <ad...@fsf.net> wrote:
>
> "His ''Nerone,'' in spite of moments of genuine grandeur and poetry, is
> for long, depressing stretches nothing but Mussolini music. For
> flatulence and empty rhetoric, it even outdoes Wagner's ''Rienzi,''
> another operatic Chimera that Miss Queler likes to let out of its cave
> now and again."

Yikes. Second time I've come across "Rienzi" in the past few weeks.

Third, if you count the brand of canned beans...

(Part of my analysis on John M. Ford's _The Dragon Waiting_. The
"silver Rienzi wand" didn't make it into Wagner's opera, but you can
find it in Edward Bulwer-Lytton's novel of the same title.)

--Z

--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*

If the Bush administration hasn't subjected you to searches without a warrant,
it's for one reason: they don't feel like it. Not because you're innocent.

Adam Thornton

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Apr 15, 2007, 2:11:58 PM4/15/07
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In article <evtojp$b68$1...@reader2.panix.com>,

Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>Here, Adam Thornton <ad...@fsf.net> wrote:
>> For flatulence and empty rhetoric, it even outdoes Wagner's ''Rienzi,''
>Yikes. Second time I've come across "Rienzi" in the past few weeks.
>Third, if you count the brand of canned beans...

I think there's some sort of Methane Conspiracy going on here.

Adam

John W. Kennedy

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Apr 15, 2007, 4:16:52 PM4/15/07
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Adam Thornton wrote:
> In article <ejcUh.50$4S1...@newsfe12.lga>,
> John W. Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote:
>> Mano alle funi, alle belve, alle donne!
> ....

>> -- Boito
>
> "His ''Nerone,'' in spite of moments of genuine grandeur and poetry, is
> for long, depressing stretches nothing but Mussolini music.

The reviewer seems to have Boito's "Nerone" confused with Mascagni's.
Boito's libretto was published (in its full five-act form) in 1902, when
Mussolini was 19, and Boito had already been working on it for decades.
I was at that 1982 concert, in fact, and have the studio LP that Queller
later made in Hungary; I also saw Amato's bijou staging a few years
later. The opera is uneven, and will certainly never be a popular hit,
but Toscanini thought highly of it -- he included Act III as part of the
gala post-war reopening of La Scala -- and it has many beauties, for
which it tends to be picked up every ten or twenty years.

--
John W. Kennedy
"Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne
of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts"
-- J. Michael Straczynski. "Babylon 5", "Ceremonies of Light and Dark"

Andrew Hunter

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Apr 16, 2007, 4:25:29 PM4/16/07
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On 2007-04-13 23:12:13 +0100, "JDC" <jd...@psu.edu> said:
>
> I think the latest version of Zoom is implementing the skein
> functionality from the I7 IDE (or is in the process of doing so? I
> haven't actually checked, but I recall seeing a "save skein" menu
> option). If so, you should be able to save the commands from a session
> and then replay them to recover the transcript.

Zoom has actually saved skein data along with its save games since
version 1.0.2. The latest version of the Inform IDE can import it using
the 'Import into Skein' option in the File menu - this is to help with
beta testing: this can also import recordings from other interpreters
(but with Zoom you don't need to remember to type 'recording on' as
your first command). In Zoom 1.1.0, you can view the data using the
'Skein' option from the Story menu (or Cmd+Opt+K)

It also supports saving the complete transcript for Z-Machine games: if
you open the save file through the Finder or using the Saves tab in the
iFiction window, the game window will be restored as you left it,
complete with full scrollback.

Andrew.

JDC

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Apr 16, 2007, 11:27:33 PM4/16/07
to
On Apr 16, 4:25 pm, Andrew Hunter <and...@logicalshift.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

Ah, so it does. Must pay closer attention...

Anyways, this looks like exactly what the OP was looking for.

-JDC

Nate

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Apr 24, 2007, 11:18:45 AM4/24/07
to
On Apr 16, 3:25 pm, Andrew Hunter <and...@logicalshift.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

That's great Andrew. Thanks. I just downloaded Zoom and will check
that out.

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