A few observations.

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Hoppa till det första olästa meddelandet

Emily Short

oläst,
15 apr. 2002 18:44:462002-04-15
till

In the storm of recent behavior, I have noted the following interesting
correlation:

gosta_vaxelstrom: NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.181.162.46, TeliaNet Registry,
Stockholm
Przemyslaw Wstrzemiezliwy: NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.181.162.47

Magnus Prickus: NNTP-Posting-Host 195.252.44.243, TeliaNet Registry
Ludgarda Hill: NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.252.44.243
Theodore PennyPincher: NNTP-Posting-Host 195.252.44.243
Jacek Pudlo: NNTP-Posting-Host 195.252.44.243
Matthew "Risotto" and company: NNTP-Posting-Host 195.252.44.243


This person should be distinguished from the following persons whose identities
have also been questioned lately:

C.M.: NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.128.132.51, Mindspring

Judson Kilpatrick: NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.128.3.181, Germany
Braxton Bragg: NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.128.0.192

Tilli: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.28.201.91, AT&T Net

AP Hill: NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.49.172.17, UUNet
Lunsford Lomax: NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.49.219.114, UUNet


This alone will not surprise anyone hugely who has been paying attention.
Now: concerning Jacek and all his other personae, some searches on
google.groups turn up the following:

-----------

Here is an exchange between Jacek and Magnus Olsson:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=90rife%24515%241%40news.lth.se

and here is a response from "Magnus Prickus" attacking Magnus about his
use of "[sic]" (which, according to google, he has not used on r*if
since):

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=84abe09e.0204101733.3e41f271%40posting.google.com

-----------

Here is Przemyslaw slamming Adam Cadre:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=UFNe6.11215%24Qb7.1644858%40newsb.telia.net

Here is Theodore PennyPincher slamming Adam in the same terms:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=cfdb2cdd.0204150726.2fa14af3%40posting.google.com

-----------

He does research as "Magnus Prickus":

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=84abe09e.0204031115.256d4ee6%40posting.google.com

and the outcome of that research:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=84abe09e.0204102223.2d0a6a58%40posting.google.com

-----------

He does research as "Jacek Pudlo" for his comments about Aris' name not being
real:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8f1f6a4c.0204140631.6bf655ff%40posting.google.com

and here Aris, unfortunately, gets pulled in by his double-bluff into supposing
that someone impersonated him in email, which, considering the source, wasn't
necessary:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=a9f021%24k9e%241%40usenet.otenet.gr

----------

Searching on his IP address in google.groups turns up only the following
post to alt.sex.pre-teens:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=200108282301.SAA08239%40pond.zippy.net

-----------

Searching on Google itself:

> Posted by Johan H on March 04, 2001 at 10:16:27 from (195.252.44.243):
>
> Hello! I惴 from Sweden and i have two Allis-Chalmers HD6G crawler loaders.
> The first with serialnumber 10142 and the outher somewere in 12000. I
> wounder if these machines can be made in early 60愀 or something? Is it
> difficulte and expencive to find parts to this machines, for example i
> need a engine clutch "Auburn model" for one of them. The outher has a
> oil-leak from final drive shaft. Tell me if the HD6G is a good machine and
> how i do to take care of it.
>
> The "Johan H" above is an email link to one johanha...@hotmail.com.

(http://www.ytmag.com/crawlers/messages/3489.html)

-----------

Searching on Johan Hagberg gives:

(in a message board to one Chris Thompson.)

> Name : johan - January 27, 2002
> E-mail : johan....@telia.com
> Location.: gotland, sweden
> Comments.: please chris make a livealbum soon.your voice is the best.
> best regards johan.

(http://www.christhompson-central.com/ct/board/guestbook.html)

----------

You may draw your own conclusions. If they match mine, you are welcome to
join me in contacting

Telia: http://www.telia.com/security
Google: groups...@google.com


Whether this has any effect or not, I recommend looking twice at anything
posted from a hotmail address through google groups, *even if it claims to
be from a poster you already know*, and checking whether the
NNTP-Posting-Host is the same as this one. This person has proven himself
tenacious, vindictive, and indifferent to argument; he is not above
impersonation of known persons, and has engaged in complicated deceitful
behavior.

Responding to him, in any name for any reason, will likely only encourage him.

--
Emily Short
http://emshort.home.mindspring.com/index.htm

kodrik

oläst,
15 apr. 2002 18:15:592002-04-15
till
Nice work

Adam Thornton

oläst,
15 apr. 2002 21:39:392002-04-15
till
In article <emshort-1504...@dialup-63.214.223.163.dial1.philadelphia1.level3.net>,

Emily Short <ems...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> This person has proven himself
>tenacious, vindictive, and indifferent to argument; he is not above
>impersonation of known persons, and has engaged in complicated deceitful
>behavior.

Aww, man. Except for the impersonation thing, I'd be thinking John
Ashcroft had invaded our newsgroup.

>Responding to him, in any name for any reason, will likely only encourage him.

Emily, I think you've earned a #1 Textfire Investigator Patch for this
one.

Adam

C.M.

oläst,
15 apr. 2002 22:11:542002-04-15
till
Hello Emily. Thanks for doing all this great research. I found it
very helpful.

Galatea was a nice game. I have a thing for statues, so I really
enjoyed it. I haven't played any of your others but I'm sure they're
good. You're probably my favorite IF author after Adam Cadre, Andrew
Plotkin, A.P. Hill, a couple others, and whoever did PUTPBAD. Keep up
the good work.

Andrew Hunter

oläst,
16 apr. 2002 08:45:382002-04-16
till
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

It appears to be a bit more interesting than that. The Santoonie trolls appear
to be three distinct people who post interchangably as each other (well, two
who post interchangably, plus Judson Kilpatrick)

A.P. Hill, Tilli and Lunsford all appear to be played by the same two people.
Their IP addresses seem to last a long time (cable modem?), so it's fairly
easy to track them.

Now, the disadvantage of trying to use NNTP-Posting-Host to track people is
that two different people might use the same ISP, producing a chance that
you'll get a false positive, so I'm restricting matches to posts that have
a high chance of being from the same person: close in date & time,
essentially.

On Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:44:46 -0400, Emily Short wrote:
>
>In the storm of recent behavior, I have noted the following interesting
>correlation:
>
>gosta_vaxelstrom: NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.181.162.46, TeliaNet Registry,
>Stockholm
>Przemyslaw Wstrzemiezliwy: NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.181.162.47
>
>Magnus Prickus: NNTP-Posting-Host 195.252.44.243, TeliaNet Registry
>Ludgarda Hill: NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.252.44.243
>Theodore PennyPincher: NNTP-Posting-Host 195.252.44.243
>Jacek Pudlo: NNTP-Posting-Host 195.252.44.243
>Matthew "Risotto" and company: NNTP-Posting-Host 195.252.44.243

My word, he does have a lot of identities, doesn't he?

ahunter:...c/arts/int-fiction % egrep -h "^(From:)" `grep -l
"^NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.252.44.243$" *` | sort | uniq
From: adolfino...@hotmail.com (Adolfino Gnocchi)
From: anthony...@hotmail.com (Anthony Ravioli)
From: gosta_va...@hotmail.com (Niezamysl Gwozdzinski)
From: haall...@hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carl_von_H=E5llplatz?=)
From: jacek...@hotmail.com (Jacek Pudlo)
From: karl_f...@hotmail.com (Karl Filenius)
From: ludgar...@hotmail.com (Ludgarda Hill)
From: magnus_...@hotmail.com (Magnus Prickus)
From: matthew...@hotmail.com (Matthew Risotto)
From: theodore_p...@hotmail.com (Theodore Pennypincher III)

This person appears to use a static IP, so we have two distinct people here.

and...

ahunter:...c/arts/int-fiction % egrep -h "^(From:)" `grep -l
"^NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.181.162.46$" *` | sort | uniq
From: "GV" <gosta_va...@hotmail.com>
From: "Karl Filenius" <karl_f...@hotmail.com>
From: "ML" <018-401681removeyourp...@telia.com>

Hmm, some of these posts date back to August 2001 (which is where my spool
ends):

2307:From: "Karl Filenius" <karl_f...@hotmail.com>
2307:Subject: plant plant in pot
2307:Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 20:38:38 GMT
3611:From: "GV" <gosta_va...@hotmail.com>
3611:Subject: disambiguation again
3611:Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 01:36:03 GMT
13113:Message-ID: <54Bs8.24$p56....@newsb.telia.net>
13113:From: "ML" <018-401681removeyourp...@telia.com>
13113:Subject: Re: What object definition Syntax would you choose?
13113:Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 12:24:33 GMT

Hmm, this person's first postings appear to be reasonably legitimate, but
become suddenly nasty... There's a gap of a couple of months between

Message-ID: <MseE7.3804$Z_1.6...@newsc.telia.net>
From: "GV" <gosta_va...@hotmail.com>
Subject: implicit movement within a location
Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 16:09:16 GMT

and

Message-ID: <j65Z7.7829$l93.2...@newsb.telia.net>
From: "GV" <gosta_va...@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Default parser responses: how do they affect the gaming /
authorship experience?
Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 22:41:19 GMT
/
Message-ID: <xV1%7.4785$n4.9...@newsc.telia.net>
From: "GV" <gosta_va...@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [IF] Warning: Rant
Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 20:41:01 GMT

The plot thickens, or something...

>This person should be distinguished from the following persons whose
>identities have also been questioned lately:
>
>C.M.: NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.128.132.51, Mindspring

Appears to only use that identity, too.

>Judson Kilpatrick: NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.128.3.181, Germany
>Braxton Bragg: NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.128.0.192

Judson has also posted from 192.35.17.10 (his first post) and 62.31.64.2
(his third):

Message-ID: <7f98cfd1.02031...@posting.google.com>
From: judson_k...@hotmail.com (Judson Kilpatrick Santoonie corp)
Subject: [Santoonie] A.P. Hill

and

Message-ID: <7f98cfd1.02040...@posting.google.com>
From: judson_k...@hotmail.com (Judson Kilpatrick Santoonie corp)
Subject: Re: [TADS] Enter the Month of Amissville

There's also things like:

ahunter:...c/arts/int-fiction % egrep
"^(Subject:)|(From:)|(Message-ID:)|(Date:)
13319:Message-ID: <7f98cfd1.02041...@posting.google.com>
13319:From: judson_k...@hotmail.com (Judson Kilpatrick Santoonie corp)
13319:Subject: Re: Photo IDs?
13319:Date: 12 Apr 2002 01:11:05 -0700
13320:Message-ID: <e530a463.02041...@posting.google.com>
13320:From: xe...@email.com (L. Ron Hubbard)
13320:Subject: Re: I am so out of the loop here...
13320:Date: 12 Apr 2002 01:13:36 -0700
13321:Message-ID: <2f0e96f5.02041...@posting.google.com>
13321:From: braxto...@hotmail.com (Braxton Bragg, Santoonie corp)
13321:Subject: Re: Inform Mapping Question
13321:Date: 12 Apr 2002 01:24:07 -0700

Not sure *what* to make of L. Ron Hubbard, who appears to have posted from
all over the place.

>Tilli: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.28.201.91, AT&T Net

It may be interesting to note that A.P. Hills earlier posts (and some of the
later ones) all came from this ISP, too, and...

ahunter:...c/arts/int-fiction % egrep "^(Subject:)|(From:)|(Message-ID:)"
`grep -l "^NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.28.201.91$" *`
13392:Message-ID: <fe9905ce.02041...@posting.google.com>
13392:From: ti...@flashmail.com (Tilli)
13392:Subject: Release Party
13395:Message-ID: <61188078.02041...@posting.google.com>
13395:From: aph...@altavista.com (A.P. Hill)
13395:Subject: Re: I am so out of the loop here...

Not to mention...

ahunter:...c/arts/int-fiction % egrep "^(Subject:)|(From:)|(Message-ID:)"
`grep -l "^NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.49.172.112$" *`
13157:Message-ID: <61188078.02040...@posting.google.com>
13157:From: aph...@altavista.com (A.P. Hill)
13157:Subject: [TADS RELEASE]Amissville v.1.0
13158:Message-ID: <fe9905ce.0204...@posting.google.com>
13158:From: ti...@flashmail.com (Tilli)
13158:Subject: Release

>AP Hill: NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.49.172.17, UUNet
>Lunsford Lomax: NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.49.219.114, UUNet

ahunter:...c/arts/int-fiction % grep "NNTP-Posting-Host" `grep -li
"^From: aov_lomax" *`
10106:NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.28.201.67
10876:NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.28.201.63
11658:NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.28.201.145
11724:NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.28.201.86
13127:NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.49.219.114
13134:NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.28.201.59
9301:NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.28.201.121

Hmm, looks like you picked the odd one out there...

>This alone will not surprise anyone hugely who has been paying attention.

[ SNIP ]

>Whether this has any effect or not, I recommend looking twice at anything
>posted from a hotmail address through google groups, *even if it claims to
>be from a poster you already know*, and checking whether the
>NNTP-Posting-Host is the same as this one. This person has proven himself
>tenacious, vindictive, and indifferent to argument; he is not above
>impersonation of known persons, and has engaged in complicated deceitful
>behavior.
>
>Responding to him, in any name for any reason, will likely only encourage him.

I'll second that.

Andrew.
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Claire M. Hecker

oläst,
16 apr. 2002 12:23:422002-04-16
till
On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, Emily Short wrote:

>
> In the storm of recent behavior, I have noted the following interesting
> correlation:
>

[snipped]

>
> C.M.: NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.128.132.51, Mindspring
>
> Judson Kilpatrick: NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.128.3.181, Germany
> Braxton Bragg: NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.128.0.192
>
> Tilli: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.28.201.91, AT&T Net
>
> AP Hill: NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.49.172.17, UUNet
> Lunsford Lomax: NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.49.219.114, UUNet
>

It's quite possible that the four named after Civil War generals
(Kilpatrick, Bragg, Hill, and Lomax) are all the same person.

Claire

-------------------------------------------------
If you give someone a program, you will
frustrate them for a day; if you teach
them how to program, you will frustrate
them for a lifetime.
-------------------------------------------------


Emily Short

oläst,
16 apr. 2002 14:34:382002-04-16
till
In article <slrnabo77i...@chrysoprase.localdomain>,
and...@logicalshift.demon.co.uk (Andrew Hunter) wrote:

> A.P. Hill, Tilli and Lunsford all appear to be played by the same two people.
> Their IP addresses seem to last a long time (cable modem?), so it's fairly
> easy to track them.

Hmm. Or the same one person, with access to two different ISPs? Not
beyond the realm of possibility, and I admit that I have not noticed any
great stylistic variations in their posts.



> ahunter:...c/arts/int-fiction % egrep -h "^(From:)" `grep -l
> "^NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.252.44.243$" *` | sort | uniq
> From: adolfino...@hotmail.com (Adolfino Gnocchi)
> From: anthony...@hotmail.com (Anthony Ravioli)
> From: gosta_va...@hotmail.com (Niezamysl Gwozdzinski)
> From: haall...@hotmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carl_von_H=E5llplatz?=)
> From: jacek...@hotmail.com (Jacek Pudlo)
> From: karl_f...@hotmail.com (Karl Filenius)

Ah, one I didn't catch. But his behavior fits perfectly with the rest:

------------

Here we see him asking questions on sci.lang:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=445bec3b.0204071412.4ebf8c73%40posting.google.com

...to provide ammunition for his Magnus Prickus attack on Magnus'
assertions about punctuation:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl1398456526d&hl=en&selm=84abe09e.0204071652.563a0328%40posting.google.com

and then joining again in the same debate as Karl Filenius in a calmer
tone of voice:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=445bec3b.0204090431.16660f06%40posting.google.com


------------

Filenius posts to Swedish and Polish newsgroups as well, and seems to be
one of the personalities used for semi-sane/stable behavior rather than
obvious trolling, which is why it didn't occur to me to double-check him.

> From: ludgar...@hotmail.com (Ludgarda Hill)
> From: magnus_...@hotmail.com (Magnus Prickus)
> From: matthew...@hotmail.com (Matthew Risotto)
> From: theodore_p...@hotmail.com (Theodore Pennypincher III)
>
> This person appears to use a static IP, so we have two distinct people here.

If you mean that the above is different from GV, the second instantiation
of Karl Filenius, and ML, I don't think so.



> and...
>
> ahunter:...c/arts/int-fiction % egrep -h "^(From:)" `grep -l
> "^NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.181.162.46$" *` | sort | uniq
> From: "GV" <gosta_va...@hotmail.com>
> From: "Karl Filenius" <karl_f...@hotmail.com>
> From: "ML" <018-401681removeyourp...@telia.com>

I missed this one, too. But it also fits: he posts in Polish and
Swedish, and English posts are largely restricted to comp.lang.c++,
rec.arts.int-fiction, sci.lang and alt.usage.english, just like the other
personalities. And, as typical, he joins in conversations with the other
versions of himself, answering people who answer Karl Filenius, for
instance.

And here he is, surprise surprise, flaming Magnus Olsson:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=0Gnp4.590%24Ph6.170840064%40newsa.telia.net

This personality is also interesting in being the only one attached to a
seemingly-genuine address; 018-401681 would in fact be a valid Swedish
telephone number, though if you try to look it up in online Swedish
telephone directories it comes up unlisted or broken. (Telia, we note, is
a Swedish telephone company and internet service provider.)

> Hmm, some of these posts date back to August 2001 (which is where my spool
> ends):
>

<snip evidence>


> Hmm, this person's first postings appear to be reasonably legitimate, but
> become suddenly nasty... There's a gap of a couple of months between


He posted a number of apparently sane posts as Jacek Pudlo, too. At first
I considered the possibility that there had actually been a 'good' Jacek
whose email account lapsed and then was hijacked by this guy; but given
the posting patterns involved and some of Jacek's past interactions with
Magnus, I don't think that's true. It seems more likely that this person
maintains some email addresses for his less antagonistic behavior and
makes special new ones when he wants to be particularly nasty.

Anyway, this person seems to live in Sweden and to have lived there for
the last couple of years, and to be associated with an IP address the only
other known user of which claims to be located in Gotland. He seems to
speak Swedish and Polish, and also apparently some German (though most of
his posts in German seem to be requests for vocabulary definitions, so I
am guessing that that is not his native tongue.)
[http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=7BBP4.2434%24wYl.196930560%40newsb.telia.net].
He's also self-conscious about the places where his English is not of
native quality, and stung by criticisms thereof.

If he's not pulling another trick of some kind, he may really be named
Michael Lonc and have a telephone number of 018-401681; hard to be sure,
and searches on the name Michael (or Mikael) Lonc have not proven
productive. From a German post, we get the news that this person (or
lying persona, but it may well be true) is from southeastern Poland:

> Entschuldigen Sie feur mein Deutsch.
> In meiner Familie (aus dem seudosten Polen) sagt man "Bachor" feur ein art
> Shelm.
> Ist das Wort aus Deutsch entlehnt oder aus Yiddisch?
> Was bedeutet es in Deutsch/Yiddisch?

[http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=t9tA4.47%24Imk.169723392%40newsa.telia.net]

His interests include linguistics, Polish fighters in the American Civil
War (scary coincidence, but no, I really don't think he's anything to do
with AP Hill), Polish poetry, and Jewish culture.

He is a fierce champion of C in his r*if posts, but admits that he uses it
only as a pleasant "past time", a point borne out by the following:

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=wIno4.257%24Ph6.186868736%40newsa.telia.net:

> Hello
>
> Does anyone know how to create a random number in C?
>
> Thanks in advance

He also at some point did put some work into a text adventure in C:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=930p4.5864%24al3.77969%40newsc.telia.net


If I had to guess, I'd say that our troll is Michael Lonc, a Polish native
who is now a member of an academic community in Gotland, Sweden; possibly
based in Visby, since that seems to be the main city on the island.

This may be off, but whatever he does for a living, I would bet that it
does not involve internet security issues.

DarrenH

oläst,
16 apr. 2002 14:37:412002-04-16
till

My posts would have one of two hosts, as I post from both work and from
home.

"Emily Short" <ems...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:emshort-1604...@dialup-63.214.213.39.dial1.philadelphia1.level
3.net...

Dennis G. Jerz

oläst,
16 apr. 2002 15:51:322002-04-16
till
Reading this thread is the most fun I've had surrounding the whole
Santooonie thread.

--
Dennis G. Jerz, Ph.D.; (715)836-2431
Dept. of English; U Wisc.-Eau Claire
419 Hibbard, Eau Claire, WI 54702
------------------------------------
Literacy Weblog: www.uwec.edu/jerzdg


Joe Mason

oläst,
16 apr. 2002 15:50:432002-04-16
till
In article <slrnabo77i...@chrysoprase.localdomain>,

Andrew Hunter <and...@logicalshift.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>Not sure *what* to make of L. Ron Hubbard, who appears to have posted from
>all over the place.

Based on what he says and the way he says it (nothing scientific, just my
vague impression) he looks like just a regular poster who happens to use a
startling and tasteless screen name.

Joe

Gunther Schmidl

oläst,
16 apr. 2002 17:34:172002-04-16
till
"Emily Short" <ems...@mindspring.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:emshort-1604...@dialup-63.214.213.39.dial1.philadelphia1.level
3.net...

[snip, nay, chainsaw]


> He seems to
> speak Swedish and Polish, and also apparently some German (though most of
> his posts in German seem to be requests for vocabulary definitions, so I
> am guessing that that is not his native tongue.)

[...]


> From a German post, we get the news that this person (or
> lying persona, but it may well be true) is from southeastern Poland:

Both these posts show that German isn't his native language; there are both
(minor) grammar and spelling errors.

-- Gunther


Jim Nelson

oläst,
16 apr. 2002 19:18:082002-04-16
till
Gunther Schmidl (gsch...@xxx.gmx.at) says ...

>
> Both these posts show that German isn't his native language; there are both
> (minor) grammar and spelling errors.

Is it possible they're honest mistakes made by a native speaker?

--
Jim Nelson
jim_n...@mindspring.com

Emily Short

oläst,
16 apr. 2002 20:03:262002-04-16
till
In article <MPG.1726510dd...@news.mindspring.com>, Jim Nelson
<jim_n...@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Gunther Schmidl (gsch...@xxx.gmx.at) says ...
> >
> > Both these posts show that German isn't his native language; there are both
> > (minor) grammar and spelling errors.
>
> Is it possible they're honest mistakes made by a native speaker?

Given that one of the posts I quoted begins, "Excuse me for my German,"
one suspects not.

Jim Nelson

oläst,
16 apr. 2002 20:16:332002-04-16
till
Emily Short (ems...@mindspring.com) says ...

> Jim Nelson <jim_n...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Is it possible they're honest mistakes made by a native speaker?
>
> Given that one of the posts I quoted begins, "Excuse me for my German,"
> one suspects not.

Ah. Well, no one can say I've turned 100% cynical. Yet.

--
Jim Nelson
jim_n...@mindspring.com

Joe Mason

oläst,
16 apr. 2002 19:50:282002-04-16
till
>Gunther Schmidl (gsch...@xxx.gmx.at) says ...
>>
>> Both these posts show that German isn't his native language; there are both
>> (minor) grammar and spelling errors.
>
>Is it possible they're honest mistakes made by a native speaker?

Well, there's also this (from Emily's second post):

> (though most of
> his posts in German seem to be requests for vocabulary definitions, so I
> am guessing that that is not his native tongue.)

Taken together, they're suggestive.

Joe

Penner Theologius Pott

oläst,
16 apr. 2002 22:49:252002-04-16
till
> Both these posts show that German isn't his native language; there are both
> (minor) grammar and spelling errors.
>
> -- Gunther

I don't know that this is conclusive; by this logic, there are any
number of English speakers on usenet about whom we could (incorrectly)
conclude the same thing.

Michael Iachini

oläst,
17 apr. 2002 00:30:322002-04-17
till
"Dennis G. Jerz" <Jer...@uwec.edu> wrote in
news:a9hvc4$1262$1...@wiscnews.wiscnet.net:

> Reading this thread is the most fun I've had surrounding the whole
> Santooonie thread.


Heartily seconded!

Michael Iachini

Billy Bissette

oläst,
17 apr. 2002 00:46:152002-04-17
till
In article <7333d18e.02041...@posting.google.com>,
Fool5...@aol.com says...

Depends on the kind of errors being made.

Someone who is weak at a second (or third/fourth/whatever) language
can make mistakes that look different than what you would expect of
a native speaker who is just bad at his or her own language.

I make "hated grammer class" and "had drunken illiterate for English
teacher" native language mistakes in English.

I make "haven't spent years immersed in a Japanese-speaking area"
and "haven't spoken/written it but for a small portion of my overall
life" mistakes in Japanese. And someone quite fluent in Japanese
can tell that's the kind of mistakes I make.

Gunther Schmidl

oläst,
17 apr. 2002 02:18:072002-04-17
till
"Penner Theologius Pott" <Fool5...@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:7333d18e.02041...@posting.google.com...

> I don't know that this is conclusive; by this logic, there are any
> number of English speakers on usenet about whom we could (incorrectly)
> conclude the same thing.

I could go into a detailed analysis of what's wrong and why that makes me
conclude the poster's first language isn't German, but I think this quote by
Emily Short sums it up:

> Given that one of the posts I quoted begins, "Excuse me for my German,"
> one suspects not.

(and no, that's not like "pardon my french" :-)

-- Gunther


Morkitar

oläst,
17 apr. 2002 15:57:052002-04-17
till
> > Judson Kilpatrick: NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.128.3.181, Germany
> > Braxton Bragg: NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.128.0.192
> >
> > Tilli: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.28.201.91, AT&T Net
> >
> > AP Hill: NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.49.172.17, UUNet
> > Lunsford Lomax: NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.49.219.114, UUNet
> >
>
> It's quite possible that the four named after Civil War generals
> (Kilpatrick, Bragg, Hill, and Lomax) are all the same person.

There may be no connection, but Tilly was a Bavarian general in the Thirty
Years' War (1618-48).

-Morkitar


David Batterham

oläst,
17 apr. 2002 22:02:242002-04-17
till
"Morkitar" <mork...@dadlnet.dk> wrote in message news:<Rtkv8.148$ON2....@news.get2net.dk>...

> > It's quite possible that the four named after Civil War generals
> > (Kilpatrick, Bragg, Hill, and Lomax) are all the same person.
>
> There may be no connection, but Tilly was a Bavarian general in the Thirty
> Years' War (1618-48).

I don't think there's a connection. My own five minutes of research
(via web.archive.org) showed that "Tilli Toons" and "Santoonie
Corporation" were part of an obscure Web-based cartoon series which
seems to no longer exist. It apparently had characters called Tilli,
Baron, Satan, etc., which also seem to be characters in Amissville. In
fact, it seems it even had an "episode" called "Amissville II". The
individual calling himself A.P. Hill is either a big fan of this
series, or possibly even its' creator. Needless to say, he's also an
American civil war afficianado, and he plays (and makes maps for) Sid
Meier's Gettysburg game.

--
David Batterham
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
program /n./ 1. A magic spell cast over a computer allowing it to turn
one's input into error messages. (Jargon File 4.0.0)

kodrik

oläst,
17 apr. 2002 22:42:502002-04-17
till
> I don't think there's a connection. My own five minutes of research
> (via web.archive.org) showed that "Tilli Toons" and "Santoonie
> Corporation" were part of an obscure Web-based cartoon series which
> seems to no longer exist. It apparently had characters called Tilli,
> Baron, Satan, etc., which also seem to be characters in Amissville. In
> fact, it seems it even had an "episode" called "Amissville II". The
> individual calling himself A.P. Hill is either a big fan of this
> series, or possibly even its' creator. Needless to say, he's also an
> American civil war afficianado, and he plays (and makes maps for) Sid
> Meier's Gettysburg game.

Tilli and AP Hill are one, AP Hill has used the same email as the so called
Tilli to promote his Tilli Toons website.

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