WUMPUS
Ittai Golde
One of the sections will deal with interactive fiction, mainly with INFOCOM.
However, when I tried to dig dipper, all I got was to "adventure" (by will
crother)
and to WUMPUS.
So I have some questions (if you would be so kind)
1. Do you know who wrote WUMPUS? I know it's a long shot, by anything would
help.
2. Do you have anything to do with the original "adventure" ? If so, I would
appriciate anything,
even if you only played it as a kid (you would have to be at least 26-30
years old, I think).
and a big 3rd: Can you give me any pointers (aside from the obviuos ones- I
already read the FAQ,
the timeline, the infocom site).
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.
ittay at ubique dot com
Nele Abels-Ludwig
> I'm writing a draft for a paper that will deal with PC-Gaming
> history. One of the sections will deal with interactive fiction,
> mainly with INFOCOM. However, when I tried to dig dipper, all I got
> was to "adventure" (by will crother) and to WUMPUS.
Well, there is not much to dig out beyond Adventure and Wumpus -
nobody had invented "interactive fiction" then. :) On second thoughts
- somewhere in my shelves is an old book with Basic listings from the
late 70's. Some of those games have vague similarities with what we
would consider interactive fiction. One example is a simulation of a
pelt trader in Canada. If you are interested, I would be glad to dig
out some details. Of course Scott Adams' "Adventureland" is a definite
must for any history of interactive fiction because this program
bridged the gap between mainframes and personal computers.
> So I have some questions (if you would be so kind)
>
> 1. Do you know who wrote WUMPUS? I know it's a long shot, by
> anything would help.
I haven't the faintest. Mhm, an Yahoo search has just led me to this
place which features an online Wumpus and is written by Sean Lane
Fuller:
http://www.javascriptg.com/ffjv_wump.html
It says:
I believe the game of "Hunt the Wumpus" was developed by Gregory
Yob. It was first published by Creative Computing in their
September/ October 1975 issue. I got the description of it from
Basic Computer Games, Edited by David h. Ahl (1980). I played it
on my first computer which was a TRS-80 Model I with Level 1
basic, 4 Kilobytes of memory and no permanent storage. I had to
type in the basic code to a game each time I powered up the
computer to play.
I am a bit puzzled why Sean didn't just plug a cassette recorder into
his TRS-80, but anyway :) Perhaps this is of some help to you,
although I must say that I am not very sure that Gregory Yob has
indeed invented Wumpus or whether he had just ported it to Basic.
People were not so concerned about copyright back in the 70's, and
quite a lot of software was simply "floating around" to be
converted and re-converted. Just think of the umpteenth versions of
the "zap-them-Klingons" game "Star Trek"...
> 2. Do you have anything to do with the original "adventure" ? If so,
> I would appriciate anything, even if you only played it as a kid
> (you would have to be at least 26-30 years old, I think).
Ah, being beyond 26 makes on a dinosaur and therefore a valuable
historical source? I see :) Yes, I remember playing a port of
Adventure in my childhood in the early 80's (was ist 81 or 82?) It was
"Pyramid 2000", an adventure game on the TRS-80, Model 1, Level II,
where the setting of "Adventure" was transferred to Egypt. The puzzles
and the room where the same, though - although I wasn't aware of that
at that time. I have recently re-discovered this game as an an
emulator image and found that it still hasn't lost its charme to me. I
never managed to solve it, yet. Funny thing - being a child I just
couldn't think of an economic way of drawing a map of this underground
maze. I somehow tried to depict the rooms the way they were described
and drew the vast hall actually as a long hall not as the four squares
I would use nowadays. It doesn't need to be mentioned that I never
managed to draw a map that way and therefore had to learn the
connections by heart - well, I nearly succeeded :)
> and a big 3rd: Can you give me any pointers (aside from the obviuos
> ones- I already read the FAQ, the timeline, the infocom site).
I am not entirely sure what king of pointers you would like to have.
There is pretty much material on interactive fiction on the net. Well,
I presume, you are looking for archaeology - perhaps some of the texts
at:
ftp://ftp.gmd.de/if-archive/info/
are of some help.
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
Aber bitte :)
Nele
--
"Was Bombenpapp einmal verband, kriegt Menschenhand nicht auseinand'"
--- Entenhausener Werbeslogan
Patrick Litherland
>1. Do you know who wrote WUMPUS? I know it's a long shot, by anything would
>help.
Hi. You can get a cloned WUMPUS from the Retrocomputing Museum:
http://earthspace.net/retro/retromuseum.html#games . ISTR there's some
background info in the package. *Boring* to play, though.
Cheers,
--
| Patrick Litherland
| email: j.p.lit...@bradford.ac.uk
| University of Bradford, West Yorkshire, UK
| "Do not taunt happy fun gnooby"
Magnus Olsson
Ittai Golde <it...@ubique.co.il.delthis> wrote:
>I'm writing a draft for a paper that will deal with PC-Gaming history.
>One of the sections will deal with interactive fiction, mainly with INFOCOM.
>However, when I tried to dig dipper, all I got was to "adventure" (by will
>crother)
That's "Crowther", with a w.
>and to WUMPUS.
>So I have some questions (if you would be so kind)
>
>1. Do you know who wrote WUMPUS? I know it's a long shot, by anything would
>help.
My WUMPUS source doesn't say anything about the author, but it's
published in David Ahl's "101 Basic Computer Games", which may list
the original author.
Eric S. Raymond did an article about the game in one of the later editions
of the "new Hacker's Dictionary" (available on-line as the "Jargon File") -
you may want to check the entry for Wumpus there.
>and a big 3rd: Can you give me any pointers (aside from the obviuos ones- I
>already read the FAQ,
>the timeline, the infocom site).
You can find some good links to information about ADVENT, aka
"Colossal Cave", if you go to http://interactfiction.miningco.com and
follow the link to "Colossal Cave" at the right of the homepage.
--
Magnus Olsson (m...@df.lth.se, zeb...@pobox.com)
------ http://www.pobox.com/~zebulon ------
Jeff Kwiatkowski
These were exercises in economics in which the player would allocate
resources each year/turn to feed the populace, plant grain. pay farmers,
etc. The computer would then calculate results including starvation
rates, harvest totals, and spoilage of surplus. The object of the game
was to keep your population growing & happy.
Wait a minute, that sounds a lot like Sim City...
(I could probably dig up old BASIC listings of some of these old games
if you *really* wanted them)
Ittai Golde wrote:
>
> I'm writing a draft for a paper that will deal with PC-Gaming history.
> One of the sections will deal with interactive fiction, mainly with INFOCOM.
> However, when I tried to dig dipper, all I got was to "adventure" (by will
> crother)
> and to WUMPUS.
> So I have some questions (if you would be so kind)
>
> 1. Do you know who wrote WUMPUS? I know it's a long shot, by anything would
> help.
> 2. Do you have anything to do with the original "adventure" ? If so, I would
> appriciate anything,
> even if you only played it as a kid (you would have to be at least 26-30
> years old, I think).
>
> and a big 3rd: Can you give me any pointers (aside from the obviuos ones- I
> already read the FAQ,
> the timeline, the infocom site).
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
Michael S Gentry
Ittai Golde wrote in message <6uo2fs$74r$1...@news.netvision.net.il>...
>1. Do you know who wrote WUMPUS?
No, but any post that causes more people to say the word "WUMPUS" on the
Internet, particularly in all caps, is a great post in my book. Keep up the
good work.
--M
================================================
"If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?"
Dylan O'Donnell
> Quoth Ittai Golde:
>
> >1. Do you know who wrote WUMPUS? I know it's a long shot, by anything would
> >help.
>
> http://earthspace.net/retro/retromuseum.html#games . ISTR there's some
> background info in the package. *Boring* to play, though.
Does anyone know if any of the upgraded versions of Wumpus are
available anywhere? All the retrocomputing copies that get
propagated for nostalgia are pretty much ports of the original,
but I understand that later versions included fancier topologies
and moving hazards, which I'd quite like to see.
--
: Dylan O'Donnell : "No more will I go to Blandford Forum :
: Demon Internet Ltd : and Mortehoe, / On the slow train, :
: Southend slave deck : from Midsomer Norton and Mumby Road..." :
: http://www.fysh.org/~psmith/ : -- Michael Flanders, "The Slow Train" :
Ittai Golde
Well, that will have to fall into the "simulation" section of the draft.
Jeff Kwiatkowski wrote in message <36100E...@baldcom.net>...
>Another old game genre worth noting is the old "Hamurabi"-type games.
>
<SNIP>
Ittai Golde
>That's "Crowther", with a w.
>
I stand corrected. Thanks.
>My WUMPUS source doesn't say anything about the author, but it's
>published in David Ahl's "101 Basic Computer Games", which may list
>the original author.
>
Nope. Maybe Don Woods will know (He wrote some of the entries, I heard).
>Eric S. Raymond did an article about the game in one of the later editions
>of the "new Hacker's Dictionary" (available on-line as the "Jargon File") -
>you may want to check the entry for Wumpus there.
>
>
>You can find some good links to information about ADVENT, aka
>"Colossal Cave", if you go to http://interactfiction.miningco.com and
>follow the link to "Colossal Cave" at the right of the homepage.
>
Dang. A great site, I can't believe I missed it. Thank you.
Ittai Golde.
Ittai Golde
Michael S Gentry wrote in message <6up74c$aa5$1...@juliana.sprynet.com>...
>
>Ittai Golde wrote in message <6uo2fs$74r$1...@news.netvision.net.il>...
>>1. Do you know who wrote WUMPUS?
>
Ittai Golde
and posts).
Does this seem right?
.... (startrek ?) --> Wumpus -> Adventure -> * AdventureLand -> Zork ->...
* Will Rogue / Hack/ Nethack fit in here somewhere?
Thanks
Ittai
Magnus Olsson
Dylan O'Donnell <dyl...@demon.net> wrote:
>Does anyone know if any of the upgraded versions of Wumpus are
>available anywhere? All the retrocomputing copies that get
>propagated for nostalgia are pretty much ports of the original,
>but I understand that later versions included fancier topologies
>and moving hazards, which I'd quite like to see.
IIRC, the version in Ahl's book (either "101 Basic Computer Games" or
"More Basic Computer Games") has several alternative topologies - you
could choose to play on, say, a Moebius strip or a maze with only
one-way passages instead of a dodecahedron.
Magnus Olsson
Depends on what you mean with the arrows. Does "X --> Y" mean "X
predates Y in time" or "Y is a direct descendant of X" or "Y was
inspired by X"?
Ittai Golde
I mean inspired by, yes.
Magnus Olsson wrote in message <6uqcm1$2c2$1...@bartlet.df.lth.se>...
Andrew Plotkin
> >>.... (startrek ?) --> Wumpus -> Adventure -> * AdventureLand -> Zork ->...
> >>
> >>* Will Rogue / Hack/ Nethack fit in here somewhere?
> >
> >Depends on what you mean with the arrows. Does "X --> Y" mean "X
> >predates Y in time" or "Y is a direct descendant of X" or "Y was
> >inspired by X"?
> I mean inspired by, yes.
I don't think the line was anywhere near as direct. Zork and Adventureland
(the Scott Adams game, right) were *both* inspired by Adventure; I doubt
Wumpus or Star Trek had much influence on any of the early IF.
(Except for geek in-jokes, of course. Zork originally described its
vampire bat as "a reject from Wumpus".)
--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the
borogoves..."
Magnus Olsson
Andrew Plotkin <erky...@netcom.com> wrote:
>Ittai Golde (it...@ubique.co.il.delthis) wrote:
>> >>.... (startrek ?) --> Wumpus -> Adventure -> * AdventureLand -> Zork ->...
>> >>
>> >>* Will Rogue / Hack/ Nethack fit in here somewhere?
>> >
>> >Depends on what you mean with the arrows. Does "X --> Y" mean "X
>> >predates Y in time" or "Y is a direct descendant of X" or "Y was
>> >inspired by X"?
>
>> I mean inspired by, yes.
>
>I don't think the line was anywhere near as direct. Zork and Adventureland
>(the Scott Adams game, right) were *both* inspired by Adventure; I doubt
>Wumpus or Star Trek had much influence on any of the early IF.
>
>(Except for geek in-jokes, of course. Zork originally described its
>vampire bat as "a reject from Wumpus".)
Well, I think ADVENT *may* have been inspired by WUMPUS, since WUMPUS
was (AFAIK) the first game where you move between rooms on a map that
is represented as a directed graph (as opposed to moving around on a
coordinate grid - there might have been games of that type earlier).
I don't think Zork was inspired by Adventureland. Isn't Zork several
years older than the Scott Adams games?
Rogue (which is the predecessor of Hack, Nethack and a bunch of similar
games) takes quite a different approach to dungeon simulation than
does ADVENT, and I have no idea about possible sources of inspiration
here. All versions of Hack that I've played use the word "Zorkmid" as
a unit of currency, but I don't know if that was in the original Rogue.
Ross Presser
wrote:
It wasn't. In the original Rogue, coins were just called "gold
pieces", and since there were no shops, they had little importance.
remove NOSPAM to reply by email
Michael Feir
some time now. I played it since age ten, and still do. The descriptions are an excellent
way of learning about things. I cover it quite extensively in my Audyssey magazine about games for the blind on computers.
Can't give you much help with Wumpus. I'm trying to track down a Dos version of that
myself. I had a really good multi-player version on my old talking Apple, but
can't find it for the IBM.
Have you checked out Nelson's Craft of Adventure? That might help you a bit.
Michael Feir, Editor of Audyssey
Nele Abels-Ludwig
[Magnus Olsson:]
> >I don't think Zork was inspired by Adventureland. Isn't Zork several
> >years older than the Scott Adams games?
Yes. And I don't even think that Adams knew Dungeon. (Well, we could
ask him :) ) Many ideas from Adventureland derive obviously from
Adventure, although they new solutions are introduced: the sleeping
dragon, the hungry bear, the volcano. But I can't think of any idea
from Dungeon which has found its way into adventureland.
[...]
> It wasn't. In the original Rogue, coins were just called "gold
> pieces", and since there were no shops, they had little importance.
Huh? There are shops at level 0 in Rogue.
Edan Harel
I'd have to look it up). IIRC, it states that not even the author considered it to be
an adventure game.
Edan Harel
Paul David Doherty
Edan Harel <edh...@remus.rutgers.edu> wrote:
>Quest for Clues mentions this game, and cites the author (don't have it with me, so
>I'd have to look it up).
It says in QfC1 that Hunt the Wumpus was written by Gregory Yob in 1972.
-- Dave
Ittai Golde
J. Robinson Wheeler
> Huh? There are shops at level 0 in Rogue.
Not on the original Rogue I played around 1980 on a VAX 11/780. Start
the game, and you're in the dungeon fighting bats and picking up gold,
but there weren't any shops, just rooms.
--
J. Robinson Wheeler
whe...@jump.net http://www.jump.net/~wheeler/jrw/home.html
Magnus Olsson
J. Robinson Wheeler <whe...@jump.net> wrote:
>Nele Abels-Ludwig wrote:
>
>> Huh? There are shops at level 0 in Rogue.
>
>Not on the original Rogue I played around 1980 on a VAX 11/780. Start
>the game, and you're in the dungeon fighting bats and picking up gold,
>but there weren't any shops, just rooms.
I don't think any version of Rogue had shops on level 0. Moria has,
though - perhaps it's a confusion between those two games?
Nele Abels-Ludwig
[...]
> I don't think any version of Rogue had shops on level 0. Moria has,
> though - perhaps it's a confusion between those two games?
Indeed there was. I remembered Moria and somehow the word "Rogue" was
imprinted into my memory. Deserves me right to play those old
black'n'white screen games :)
Matthew T. Russotto
J. Robinson Wheeler <whe...@jump.net> wrote:
}Nele Abels-Ludwig wrote:
}
}> Huh? There are shops at level 0 in Rogue.
}
}Not on the original Rogue I played around 1980 on a VAX 11/780. Start
}the game, and you're in the dungeon fighting bats and picking up gold,
}but there weren't any shops, just rooms.
I concur. Moria has shops on Level 0, though.
--
Matthew T. Russotto russ...@pond.com
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue."
John W Kennedy
>
> Well, I think ADVENT *may* have been inspired by WUMPUS, since WUMPUS
> was (AFAIK) the first game where you move between rooms on a map that
> is represented as a directed graph (as opposed to moving around on a
> coordinate grid - there might have been games of that type earlier).
Yob, himself, thought so when he designed WUMPUS.
--
-John W. Kennedy
-rri...@ibm.net
Compact is becoming contract
Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams
Magnus Olsson
John W Kennedy <rri...@ibm.net> wrote:
>Magnus Olsson wrote:
>>
>> Well, I think ADVENT *may* have been inspired by WUMPUS, since WUMPUS
>> was (AFAIK) the first game where you move between rooms on a map that
>> is represented as a directed graph (as opposed to moving around on a
>> coordinate grid - there might have been games of that type earlier).
>
>Yob, himself, thought so when he designed WUMPUS.
Sorry, I didn't quite get that: What did Yob believe when designing
WUMPUS?
John W Kennedy
>
> In article <3623A567...@ibm.net>,
> John W Kennedy <rri...@ibm.net> wrote:
> >Magnus Olsson wrote:
> >>
> >> Well, I think ADVENT *may* have been inspired by WUMPUS, since WUMPUS
> >> was (AFAIK) the first game where you move between rooms on a map that
> >> is represented as a directed graph (as opposed to moving around on a
> >> coordinate grid - there might have been games of that type earlier).
> >
> >Yob, himself, thought so when he designed WUMPUS.
>
> Sorry, I didn't quite get that: What did Yob believe when designing
> WUMPUS?
That it was the first game without "that damned cartesian grid".