[COMP01] Some Random Observations
Magnus Olsson
much of the following observations were made from secondary sources
(viz. the discussion here on r.g.i-f). This means there may be some
misunderstandings or misapprehensions. Caveat emptor.
* A largish number of games used different forms of multimedia.
* Several text-only games made use of colours and fonts to good
effect.
* The first non-Infocom z6 game ever (AFAIK) was entered.
* There were a number of Glulx games, as well as ones written in Quest
and Adrift, but not a single Hugo game.
* For the first time, an ALAN game was a serious contender for the
first place.
* Several games featured one-word parsers.
* Several games had a world model more like a MUD or CRPG than a
classical text adventure.
* Two AIF games were among the entries, one of them a conscious
parody.
* There were games written in both the past and the present tense, and
in the first, second and third persons. One game was written in the
first person *plural*.
* One game not just featured a dragon, but featured a dragon as a
player character.
* At least one game made very original and innovative use of one of
the oldest and most hackneyed clichés in IF: amnesia.
* Fewer games than in earlier comps were set in abstract worlds or
surrealistic dreamworlds. The same holds for college settings or
simulations of the author's house.
* Several games continued the trend of deconstructing the player-PC
relationship in various ways.
* Several games featured multiple PCs and/or alternative ways of
experiencing the same scene.
* Many games used "alternative" conversation interfaces, ranging from
"talk to NPC" to complex trees of conversation menus.
* At least two games made conversation with NPCs the main or only type
of interaction, either in the whole game or in a large part of it.
* Several games featured some attempts at realistic modelling of the
clothing of PCs and/or NPCs. Only one of these characters seemed to
wear any kind of underwear, and none of them wore any shoes.
* Neither Zarf nor Adam Cadre entered the competition, but several
games showed clear signs of being inspired by these authors.
* The most elaborate Z-abuse ever - a complete chess program - was
entered.
* One entry was written in German, and another one in a language
invented for the purpose.
* Unusually many games that received otherwise favourable reviews
contained show-stopping bugs.
* One game received an almost uniform distribution of votes, from
1 to 9.
* At least one game featured a mimesis plant.
--
Magnus Olsson (m...@df.lth.se, m...@pobox.com)
------ http://www.pobox.com/~mol ------
Marnie Parker
> surrealistic dreamworlds. The same holds for college settings or
> simulations of the author's house.
Until you mentioned it, I hadn't stopped to think about it, but none of the
games I played (and certainly I did not play them all) were set in college or
the author's house.
Yippee!
Doe :-) I consider that a major step forward.
doea...@aol.com
IF http://members.aol.com/doepage/intfict.htm
(An Iffy Theory | Glulx/Glk for Duncies | unglklib | Inform Primer)
IF Art Gallery http://members.aol.com/iffyart/
IF Review Conspiracy http://www.plover.net/~textfire/conspiracy/
Eric Mayer
This should be prominently archived someplace as a brief history of
Comp 2001. I was unusually lucky this year in that I happened to have
some free time to play most of the games. Although I criticised some
of them there were lots I really enjoyed and I had a great time. I
loved the variety and the unpredictability. Although I would like to
see another competition in the spring to spread things out a bit and
make sure the annual comp doesn't get overwhelmed, the annual comp is,
to my mind, not broken at all and I think this post is a reminder of
that.
--
Eric Mayer
Web Site: <http://home.epix.net/~maywrite>
"The map is not the territory." -- Alfred Korzybski
Daniel Dawson
Well, technically, no. Remember that Jason Penny ported Advent to z6. AFAIK, it
wasn't entered in any comp (was this before the IFComp?), but I interpreted
your statement as meaning that it was the first ever z6 game outside Infocom.
But maybe you mean the first one entered?
--
Daniel Dawson
dda...@nospam-altavista.net (remove 'nospam-' to send mail)
http://www.crosswinds.net/~ddawson/
Magnus Olsson
Daniel Dawson <dda...@nospam-altavista.net> wrote:
>You pick up and read article <9tjsg6$acc$1...@news.lth.se>, written by Magnus
>Olsson <m...@df.lth.se>. It says:
>>* The first non-Infocom z6 game ever (AFAIK) was entered.
>
>Well, technically, no. Remember that Jason Penny ported Advent to z6. AFAIK, it
>wasn't entered in any comp (was this before the IFComp?), but I interpreted
>your statement as meaning that it was the first ever z6 game outside Infocom.
>But maybe you mean the first one entered?
No, I meant the first v6 game, as opposed to a v5 game compiled to
v6. But I was mistaken about that - Jason has told me via email that
advent.z6 does use V6 features to achieve screen layouts not
available in the z5 version.
But I still think that Moments deserves to be mentioned as some
kind of "first".
Jason C. Penney
> No, I meant the first v6 game, as opposed to a v5 game compiled to
> v6. But I was mistaken about that - Jason has told me via email that
> advent.z6 does use V6 features to achieve screen layouts not
> available in the z5 version.
> But I still think that Moments deserves to be mentioned as some
> kind of "first".
So do I! AFIK it's the first original work produced in v6.
Jay
--
Jason C Penney (jpenney [AT] jczorkmid.net) Xarton Dragon -=<UDIC>=-
<http://www.jczorkmid.net>
"Time and tide melts the snow man." --The Doctor
Andrew Plotkin
>>* Fewer games than in earlier comps were set in abstract worlds or
>> surrealistic dreamworlds. The same holds for college settings or
>> simulations of the author's house.
> Until you mentioned it, I hadn't stopped to think about it, but none of the
> games I played (and certainly I did not play them all) were set in college or
> the author's house.
Except _Grayscale_, but I don't think it was Daniel Freas's real
house.
If it was, I want to come visit. :)
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
Paul O'Brian
[a bunch of interesting observations, and...]
> * Several games featured some attempts at realistic modelling of the
> clothing of PCs and/or NPCs. Only one of these characters seemed to
> wear any kind of underwear, and none of them wore any shoes.
On the contrary, the PC in Earth And Sky wears shoes, albeit without
socks.
--
Paul O'Brian obr...@colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~obrian
Add your own brick to the wall of SPAG -- write a review! The deadline
for the annual competition issue is December 5, 2001.
Sean T Barrett
In article <9tjsg6$acc$1...@news.lth.se>, Magnus Olsson <m...@df.lth.se> wrote:
>* There were games written in both the past and the present tense, and
> in the first, second and third persons. One game was written in the
> first person *plural*.
*Two* games in the first person plural. (One only in parts.)
Two games also switched between present and past tense for
different sections of the game.
SeanB
Magnus Olsson
Sean T Barrett <buz...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>As long as people are posting corrections:
>
>In article <9tjsg6$acc$1...@news.lth.se>, Magnus Olsson <m...@df.lth.se> wrote:
>>* There were games written in both the past and the present tense, and
>> in the first, second and third persons. One game was written in the
>> first person *plural*.
>
>*Two* games in the first person plural. (One only in parts.)
Which were those?
>Two games also switched between present and past tense for
>different sections of the game.
Hmmm. Can we expect a game written in the future tense in the next
Comp? Or one in the pluperfect?
:-)
Timofei Shatrov
everyone with this message:
>In article <GnAGF...@world.std.com>,
>Sean T Barrett <buz...@TheWorld.com> wrote:
>>As long as people are posting corrections:
>>
>>In article <9tjsg6$acc$1...@news.lth.se>, Magnus Olsson <m...@df.lth.se> wrote:
>>>* There were games written in both the past and the present tense, and
>>> in the first, second and third persons. One game was written in the
>>> first person *plural*.
>>
>>*Two* games in the first person plural. (One only in parts.)
>
>Which were those?
>
Isolato Incident and Heroes (dragon)
--
GRUE@|And to auoide tediouse repetition of these woordes: is equalle to:
MAIL|I will sette as I doe often in woorke use, a paire of paralleles of
RU|one lengthe, thus ===, bicause noe .2. thynges, can be moare equalle.
GRUE.FREESERVERS.COM|Robert Recorde,"The Whetstone of Witte',1557.[4*72]
Magnus Olsson
Paul O'Brian <obr...@ucsu.colorado.edu> wrote:
>On 22 Nov 2001, Magnus Olsson wrote:
>
>[a bunch of interesting observations, and...]
>
>> * Several games featured some attempts at realistic modelling of the
>> clothing of PCs and/or NPCs. Only one of these characters seemed to
>> wear any kind of underwear, and none of them wore any shoes.
>
>On the contrary, the PC in Earth And Sky wears shoes, albeit without
>socks.
Oops, sorry, missed that. And she wears underwear as well, so what I wrote
above is doubly misleading.
(The game I really was thinking about when I wrote the comment about
shoes was "Film at Eleven" - it's slightly funny that the character's
clothes are described in great detail, but there's no mention of shoes).
Campbell Wild
> and Adrift, but not a single Hugo game.
I think this is quite interesting. The FAQ defines Hugo, Inform, TADS and
ALAN as Tier (i). Who is ultimately responsible for categorising these
languages?
Campbell
--
____,-.-.--.-.--.--.___
( / ° \ )°< | =´ ¡´ )
¯¯¯`-^-'--^-'·-' -'¯¯¯¯
www.adrift.org.uk
David Glasser
> > * There were a number of Glulx games, as well as ones written in Quest
> > and Adrift, but not a single Hugo game.
>
> I think this is quite interesting. The FAQ defines Hugo, Inform, TADS and
> ALAN as Tier (i). Who is ultimately responsible for categorising these
> languages?
Enh, whoever maintains the raif FAQ, it's nothing too official. And at
present nobody really maintains it. (I think Steve Griffiths is posting
it but I don't think he's made any changes since I handed it over to
him.) (On the other hand, I'm just as guilty: I haven't changed my web
page to imply I'm not maintaining it any more.)
--
David Glasser
ne...@davidglasser.net http://www.davidglasser.net/
SteveG
On Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:18:31 -0500, ne...@davidglasser.net (David
Glasser) wrote:
>Campbell Wild <camp...@nospam.adrift.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Magnus Olson wrote
>> [snip]
>> > * There were a number of Glulx games, as well as ones written in Quest
>> > and Adrift, but not a single Hugo game.
>> [snip]
>> I think this is quite interesting. The FAQ defines Hugo, Inform, TADS and
>> ALAN as Tier (i). Who is ultimately responsible for categorising these
>> languages?
>
>Enh, whoever maintains the raif FAQ, it's nothing too official. And at
>present nobody really maintains it. (I think Steve Griffiths is posting
>it but I don't think he's made any changes since I handed it over to
>him.)
Well, I haven't *changed* it in the the sense that I haven't made any
editorial decisions or inserted my own opinions yet but I have made a
steady stream of mundane 'bugfixes'.
I have only made corrections and updates to facts and URLs (and I know
there's a lot more of those to do -- my next job, for example, is to
revamp the weblinks section which has been rusty for a long time.)
The placement of 'Alan' amongst the 'Tier 1' systems was made several
years ago. Of the four members of 'Tier 1', I think Alan's membership
is the most tenuous because Alan is clearly a less powerful system
than the other three tier 1 systems. However, as the tiers are
defined, I think its membership was, and remains, entirely
justifiable. It may be that other systems should now be added to 'Tier
1' or that the tiers should be redefined to reflect some other way of
categorising authoring systems.
The definition of 'Tier 1' systems in the FAQ is
Tier (i) contains the most popular systems; posts
about them are common on raif, and even the least-used
one has at least a game or two each year. It contains
Hugo, Inform, TADS, and ALAN. These are all good systems,
with Inform and TADS the most popular and ported.
On that definition, I think the current membership of Tier 1 has
accurately reflected raif-world reality. However as with all things in
the faq, that reality changes over time.
One possibility would be to lump the two indisputable shining lights
amongst IF authoring systems in terms of both power and popularity in
one tier and create a new second tier of systems not so popular but
still often recommended by raif readers for various purposes. This
would fix one problem with the current 'Tier 2' where worthy, modern
and supported systems such as Quest are lumped in with AGT. (Having
just thought of this, I think I'll seriously consider moving AGT out
of Tier 2 immediately as it is certainly no longer popular amongst or
recommended for any purpose by raif readers though I know its still
been used by other groups. That removal will show that other systems
in Tier 2 are by no means rejected by their placement in the second
tier.)
I welcome any debate on whether times have changed sufficiently to
justify modifying the tiers or tier membership. (Note though that, as
can be seen from the number of inaccurate URLs, etc, in the faq, it
may take me a while to find both the free time and energy to make
major changes.)
>(On the other hand, I'm just as guilty: I haven't changed my web
>page to imply I'm not maintaining it any more.)
The current raif FAQ webpage URL is:
http://plover.net/~textfire/raiffaq/
The long but rather dull list of changes I've made:
http://plover.net/~textfire/raiffaq/online/recent.htm
>
>--
>David Glasser
>ne...@davidglasser.net http://www.davidglasser.net/
-- SteveG
remove _X_ from my address to send me email
Sean T Barrett
>Paul O'Brian <obr...@ucsu.colorado.edu> wrote:
>>On 22 Nov 2001, Magnus Olsson wrote:
>>> * Several games featured some attempts at realistic modelling of the
>>> clothing of PCs and/or NPCs. Only one of these characters seemed to
>>> wear any kind of underwear, and none of them wore any shoes.
>>
>>On the contrary, the PC in Earth And Sky wears shoes, albeit without
>>socks.
>
>Oops, sorry, missed that. And she wears underwear as well, so what I wrote
>above is doubly misleading.
One of the PCs in Heroes has clothes (including shoes) which are
not modeled to the extent of being removable (or even independently
examinable) but do include, erm, excessively-modelled pockets
(inspired by a long-ago discussion on raif).
SeanB
Adam Thornton
>* Several games featured some attempts at realistic modelling of the
> clothing of PCs and/or NPCs. Only one of these characters seemed to
> wear any kind of underwear, and none of them wore any shoes.
I assure you, the lack of underwear displayed, often prominently, by
Captain Makane and Lieutenant Barcelona, was, as Zarf would say,
Deliberate.
Adam
Magnus Olsson
And quite appropriate for the genre!
Kathleen
> * Several games featured some attempts at realistic modelling of the
> clothing of PCs and/or NPCs. Only one of these characters seemed to
> wear any kind of underwear, and none of them wore any shoes.
I find this comment amusing, as in my last game I recall grumbles
because there were shoes and you couldn't do anything with them! :)
Kathleen (just getting back from a very lovely, long, vacation - so
appologies if this (and other) posts are tad tardy until I get caught
up.)
-- Prized Possession
-- http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/competition2001/inform/possess
-- Masquerade - http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/inform/Mask.z5
-- The Cove - http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/inform/Cove.z5
-- Excuse me while I dance a little jig of despair
Magnus Olsson
Kathleen <mfis...@aol.com> wrote:
>m...@df.lth.se (Magnus Olsson) wrote in message
>news:<9tjsg6$acc$1...@news.lth.se>...
>> * Several games featured some attempts at realistic modelling of the
>> clothing of PCs and/or NPCs. Only one of these characters seemed to
>> wear any kind of underwear, and none of them wore any shoes.
>
>I find this comment amusing, as in my last game I recall grumbles
>because there were shoes and you couldn't do anything with them! :)
Well, there's no pleasing your audience, is there? :-)
The problem is that once you, for some reason, start to model
clothing realistically, people will expect a realistic level of
detail, including shoes, socks, undergarments, pockets...
And once that detail is there, people will expect it to play
a part in the game, and will be disappointed if it doesn't.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't...
Carl Muckenhoupt
>
> Hmmm. Can we expect a game written in the future tense in the next
> Comp? Or one in the pluperfect?
I can imagine a game in the future tense:
Reception Area
Miss Stinklemeyer will be sitting at her desk, looking all snooty as
usual, and she'll say "Sorry, but you can't see Mr. Rutherford without an
appointment."
>N
And I'll walk right past her! She'll try to stop me, but I'll just ignore
her. I mean, what's she going to do, call security? Security will still
be busy with the ruckus over in Accounting.
Boss's Office
If I'm lucky, Mr. Rutherford will be entertaining some big client.
Someone he can't afford to be embarassed around. Yeah, that's how it'll
be. And they'll both turn to look at me, and Rutherford will open his
mouth to start to yell at me again.
>HIT BOSS
He'll never see it coming! One punch and he'll be flat on his back.
[You score has gone up by 1 point.]
Kathleen M. Fischer
>UNDO
No wait, that's not right. I'd lose my job.
[Your score has gone down by 1 point.]
>CLIENT, HELLO
I know, I won't give him the chance to yell. I'll introduce myself to the
client, and tell him MY great idea. He'll fire my boss on the spot and hire
me
instead. I'll be rich! My boss will be reduced to cleaning breakfast dishes
for TPB! Yeah, that's how it'll be.
But what if security shows up first, and starts dragging me toward the door?
Kathleen
-- Prized Possession
--
http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/competition2001/inform/possess
-- Masquerade - http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/inform/Mask.z5
-- The Cove - http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/inform/Cove.z5
-- Excuse me while I dance a little jig of despair
-- Prized Possession (Comp2001)
--
http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/competition2001/inform/possess/Aly
s.z5
-- Masquerade (Comp2000, nominated for Best Story (XYZZY's))
-- http://www.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/inform/Mask.z5
OKB -- not okblacke
>
>>HIT BOSS
>
>He'll never see it coming! One punch and he'll be flat on his back.
>[You score has gone up by 1 point.]
You mean:
[And then my score will go up by 1 point!]
--OKB (Bren...@aol.com) -- no relation to okblacke
"Do not follow where the path may lead;
go, instead, where there is no path, and leave a trail."
--Author Unknown
Eytan Zweig
"Carl Muckenhoupt" <ca...@wurb.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.166d92a89...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
> In article <9tnlpa$8l1$1...@news.lth.se>, m...@df.lth.se says...
> >
> > Hmmm. Can we expect a game written in the future tense in the next
> > Comp? Or one in the pluperfect?
>
> I can imagine a game in the future tense:
>
> >HIT BOSS
>
> He'll never see it coming! One punch and he'll be flat on his back.
> [You score has gone up by 1 point.]
Shouldn't that be:
[Your score will go up by 1 point]?
Eytan
ally
What if the story was a "stuck" person's speculation, musing, or
daydream? You could award the player for dreaming of the future in
an optimistic or assertive fashion. But the dreaming itself would still
take place in the present. And that's where the player would "score".
To "win" would mean having mustered the strength to make it real,
or having dreamed up a feasible plan.
(Am I perchance taking this too seriously?)
--
~~___ / / ____ ~~~ (<-- ophelia)
~~(_:|)/_/__/ |- ~~ kitzapoo at gmx dot co dot uk
~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~ ~~ if all else fails, meow
Daniel Dawson
>
>[Your score will go up by 1 point]?
Or more parallel:
[You score will have gone up by 1 point.]
Magnus Olsson
ally <ally...@aol.comedy> wrote:
>From: "Eytan Zweig" eyt...@yahoo.com
>>"Carl Muckenhoupt" <ca...@wurb.com> wrote in message
>>news:MPG.166d92a89...@News.CIS.DFN.DE...
>>>
>>
>>> >HIT BOSS
>>>
>>> He'll never see it coming! One punch and he'll be flat on his back.
>>> [You score has gone up by 1 point.]
>>
>>Shouldn't that be:
>>
>>[Your score will go up by 1 point]?
>
>What if the story was a "stuck" person's speculation, musing, or
>daydream? You could award the player for dreaming of the future in
>an optimistic or assertive fashion. But the dreaming itself would still
>take place in the present. And that's where the player would "score".
>To "win" would mean having mustered the strength to make it real,
>or having dreamed up a feasible plan.
An interesting idea. The traditional way of doing the dream sequences
would of course be in the same tense as the rest of the narrative
(just as flashbacks are usuallly prompted by a different tense, and
then switch into the main tense - in static ficition, one or two
sentences in the past perfect and then back to the straight past
tense to avoid sounding stilted).
But in your case it would be interesting to have the dream sequences
in the future tens. Or perhaps in the conditional?
>hit boss
He'd never see it coming. One punch, and he'd be flat on his back!
[ Your score would go up by one point ]
ally.mon
> In article <20011202001026...@mb-ba.aol.com>,
> ally <ally...@aol.comedy> wrote:
> >What if the story was a "stuck" person's speculation, musing, or
> >daydream? You could award the player for dreaming of the future in
> >an optimistic or assertive fashion. But the dreaming itself would still
> >take place in the present. And that's where the player would "score".
> >To "win" would mean having mustered the strength to make it real,
> >or having dreamed up a feasible plan.
>
> An interesting idea. The traditional way of doing the dream sequences
> would of course be in the same tense as the rest of the narrative
> (just as flashbacks are usuallly prompted by a different tense, and
> then switch into the main tense - in static ficition, one or two
> sentences in the past perfect and then back to the straight past
> tense to avoid sounding stilted).
> But in your case it would be interesting to have the dream sequences
> in the future tens. Or perhaps in the conditional?
It's easy to think of (immersive) IF as a vision/flashback/dream/
alternate reality--using a different tense for any additional "layers"
could help make them feel more distinct, could underline their nature
(provided that's what the author wants, of course; in "my case" it
would.)
Someone with low self-esteem might be using the conditional--but an
evil scientist will surely want to divulge his Grand Scheme in the
future tense. (Please imagine I'm supplying a hilarious example
transcript now (unfortunately I don't speak Evil Scientist (at least
not in English (maybe I should try LISP, though.))))
I have a feeling such a game would have to be very fast-paced and
involve little fiddling-with-objects... or at the very least require
highly "customised" objects...
>examine window
I would see nothing special about the window.
>open window
It would not be that kind of window.
...mh.
Oh, well. This thread's faded out weeks ago, I know. Sorry bout that.
~ally