Jesus of Nazareth and Ninja II

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dun...@yahoo.com

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Nov 16, 2005, 1:11:22 AM11/16/05
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I wrote Jesus of Nazareth to be something completely different from
previous games I have authored (see: Westfront PC and HLA Adventure for
examples). Jesus of Nazareth was entered into the 2005 IF Comp on the
hopes that it would be blasphemous, but also somewhat funny (Jesus has
hit points? SWEEEEET!). Yes, it has some bugs (noticed after I entered
it into the competition, but after the final, so I was stuck in that
regard).

And Ninja II was basically just Ninja with a few extras. I wanted it to
be bad, and hey, I succeeded.

Paul

Bob

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Nov 16, 2005, 12:59:26 PM11/16/05
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dun...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> And Ninja II was basically just Ninja with a few extras. I wanted it to
> be bad, and hey, I succeeded.
>
> Paul

Paul,

I am very sorry, but I think you will _always_ succeed in doing
something badly. That's why I feel sorry for the poor HIV/AIDS people
you will counsel. Paul, you promised you won't post in the group
anymore. Now you promise not to make IF anymore. I wish I could
believe...

Bob

P.S. I'm not a hostile person, but you really annoy me with your
self-advertisement, your talk about yourself, your defense of your
"work" and even with your IF-Comp intro Ninja II which should have been
disqualified for not being previously unreleased, since it's just Ninja
with an extra dragon.

Stu George

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Nov 16, 2005, 2:34:49 PM11/16/05
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>dun...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> And Ninja II was basically just Ninja with a few extras. I wanted it to
> be bad, and hey, I succeeded.
>
> Paul

What I dont understand is why someone would enter something so bad
into the competition? The same thing goes for the other purposefully
bad entries...

what point do they serve? I feel it kinda denigrates the competition.
or is it designed to make mediocre games look better than they are
by virtue of unbalancing the competitive ratings?

- Stu : Email via http://public.xdi.org/=stu

dwh...@gmail.com

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Nov 16, 2005, 2:51:11 PM11/16/05
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He didn't intend it to be purposefully bad. Sad but true, this is the
best Panks is capable of.

Yuki

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Nov 16, 2005, 3:42:46 PM11/16/05
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>What I dont understand is why someone would enter something so bad
>into the competition?

It's not an intentionally bad entry. He's just posting this in an
attempt to save face.

Mark J. Tilford

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Nov 16, 2005, 4:22:38 PM11/16/05
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On 16 Nov 2005 11:51:11 -0800, dwh...@gmail.com <dwh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> He didn't intend it to be purposefully bad. Sad but true, this is the
> best Panks is capable of.
>

Panks says lots of things; Ninja 1.30 got slammed last year, and this
version was hardly different. I have no idea what his goals were.

xorax, OTOH, was trying to get second-from bottom last year, and was
probably trying to do the same again.

>
> Stu George wrote:
>>
>> What I dont understand is why someone would enter something so bad
>> into the competition? The same thing goes for the other purposefully
>> bad entries...
>>
>> what point do they serve? I feel it kinda denigrates the competition.
>> or is it designed to make mediocre games look better than they are
>> by virtue of unbalancing the competitive ratings?
>>
>>
>>
>> - Stu : Email via http://public.xdi.org/=stu
>


--
------------------------
Mark Jeffrey Tilford
til...@ugcs.caltech.edu

dun...@yahoo.com

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Nov 16, 2005, 5:21:27 PM11/16/05
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No, David, it is not the best I am capable of. But since you don't give
a fuck to even LOOK at any of the games I have written, why should I
care to pander to your trivial needs?

Paul

dun...@yahoo.com

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Nov 16, 2005, 5:25:56 PM11/16/05
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Incorrect.

Paul

dun...@yahoo.com

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Nov 16, 2005, 5:27:12 PM11/16/05
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See my Linux articles in Linux World, Linux Journal and my other
articles in Dr. Dobb's Journal and Byte.com. If they were bad, or
poorly researched, none of those magazines would have published them.

Paul

James Mitchelhill

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Nov 16, 2005, 5:33:51 PM11/16/05
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On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:34:49 GMT, Stu George wrote:

<snip>


> What I dont understand is why someone would enter something so bad
> into the competition? The same thing goes for the other purposefully
> bad entries...
>
> what point do they serve? I feel it kinda denigrates the competition.
> or is it designed to make mediocre games look better than they are
> by virtue of unbalancing the competitive ratings?

See, these people entering bad games - load of bloody amateurs. I supect
they are merely lazy. Entering a game that's *imaginitively* bad is a
large amount of work you need to find your awful concept incredibly
funny if you're actually going to bother.

--
James Mitchelhill
ja...@disorderfeed.net
http://disorderfeed.net

Jon Rosebaugh

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Nov 16, 2005, 6:23:58 PM11/16/05
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Don't forget to mention that none of these five articles were ever
published in print. And it's not hard to see why.

* The article at DDJ.com about software piracy is ludicrously
simpleminded. It cites only one source: the Business Software Alliance,
whose business depends on convincing people that piracy is a big
problem. The bulk of the article consists of quoting statistics from a
BSA-sponsored report, then somehow concluding that the solution to
piracy involves corporations switching to releasing shareware and
mandatory copyright classes in schools.

* The article at Byte.com about the Commodore scene isn't completely
accessable without paying money, but the bit I managed to read made no
sense. For example, the first sentence of the second paragraph asserted
that during 1982-1984, the Commodore saw "an overall lack of quality
software", but in the second sentence you laud the quality of the
Commodore's games. Now, so far as I can tell, Byte.com doesn't even HAVE
a printed edition for you to be published in, but I doubt you would have
gotten there with this article if they had one.

* The article in Linux Journal concerning HLA is actually fairly decent.
But it really hasn't much to do with Linux, and it incorporates such
hard-to-swallow gems such as "The best part about HLA is it is a
constantly evolving programming language." As many people can tell you,
too fast a speed of development on a programming language can be just as
harmful as too slow a speed. Moving on.

* Your two LinuxWorld articles seem to have been accepted by the same
sort of people who thought Maureen O'Gara was a good journalist. I
thought about giving a careful analysis of why the articles are
worthless, but the point will have been made to everyone but you by now,
and you don't ever listen anyway.

Plenty of magazines will buy substandard articles to display online
because online space is cheap and it offers another article to display
ads on. Do let us know when you manage to offer something good enough to
actually appear in print without you having to pay _them_ to do it, the
way you do with your "novels".

dun...@yahoo.com

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Nov 16, 2005, 6:37:54 PM11/16/05
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Jon,

Quite the contrary...I was PAID by Linux Journal $150 for my article on
HLA. I was given a free subscription to Linux Journal for my Linux
articles.

None of my articles are substandard. In fact, Byte.com has very high
acceptance standards, as does Dr. Dobb's Journal.

You are a blatant fucking asshole who likes degrading the works of
other people. Go away.

Paul

dwh...@gmail.com

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Nov 16, 2005, 6:57:05 PM11/16/05
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dun...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Jon,

>
> You are a blatant fucking asshole who likes degrading the works of
> other people. Go away.
>
> Paul

It's comments like that, Panks, that show you up for the idiot you are.

dun...@yahoo.com

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Nov 16, 2005, 6:58:41 PM11/16/05
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At least I have an opinion and stick with it. I don't waver in my
opinions.

Paul

dun...@yahoo.com

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Nov 16, 2005, 7:00:25 PM11/16/05
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By the way, my articles in Linux World magazine DID appear in
print...Check the March, June, July, August, September, October,
November and December 2005 issues.

Paul

Adam Myrow

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Nov 16, 2005, 8:44:14 PM11/16/05
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All I can say about the load of joke games this year is that it completely
killed my enthusiasm. I had the web interface generate me a random list,
and the first two games it gave me were PTBAD6andoneeighth followed by
Ninja II. Then, looking down the list, and reading the blurbs, I discover
Amissville II, FutureGame (tm), and Jesus of Nazareth. Seeing all these
joke games just gave me the feeling that this competition wasn't worth
judging. I ended up completing 3 games, and getting about halfway through
a fourth. I think there needs to be a rule that forbids deliberately bad
games. I would rather judge a few games where the authors are putting
forth an honest effort then 40 games where the authors are throwing
together some trash in 5 minutes just to irritate judges. This is supposed
to be a competition for the best game, not the worst.

Andrew Plotkin

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Nov 16, 2005, 8:57:12 PM11/16/05
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Here, Adam Myrow <amy...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
> All I can say about the load of joke games this year is that it completely
> killed my enthusiasm.
> [...]

> I would rather judge a few games where the authors are putting forth
> an honest effort then 40 games where the authors are throwing
> together some trash in 5 minutes just to irritate judges. This is
> supposed to be a competition for the best game, not the worst.

There is no practical way to keep bad games out of the competition.[*]

Therefore, you have two options. One: Don't judge the games; wait for
the results and play the top scorers. Two: Don't get irritated at the
bad games; write down a 1 after three minutes and move on.

[* Every year someone suggests two-stage competition voting, or a panel
of pre-screen judges. This amounts to adding a new competition to
solve the problem of the "wrong people" entering the competition.
Which is iffy in several different ways, which is why we never do it
that way.]

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
I'm still thinking about what to put in this space.

Adam Myrow

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Nov 16, 2005, 9:30:27 PM11/16/05
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Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> There is no practical way to keep bad games out of the competition.[*]

Of course not. However, let me try and explain further. What I found
off putting, even insulting, were things like the blurb for
PTBAD6andoneeighth which was full of typos, and brags about all the
spelling errors. Then, there is this line from the GameInfo.txt file for
Amissville II. "In keeping with Santoonie tradition, there is no walk
thru. The game was written for the amusement of it's authors." I think
that games whose readme file or blurb clearly demonstrate that they are bad
just because the author feels like making a bad game are the problem.
Games that are bad because the author has poor writing skills, or are full
of bugs don't bother me as much as what I saw this year. For example,
Stack Overflow from last year was full of bad English, and bugs. However,
it felt like at least the author was trying. Similarly, in 2003, a
terrible AGT game named Curse of Manorland came in 28 out of 30. However,
even though I gave it a 1, and I had to look up the title since it was so
forgettable, it still didn't brag about how bad it was in its documentation,
and I recall the author being genuinely surprised at the poor results.

If we can't disqualify joke games outright, how about a mass refusal to
give them any rating and simply skip them? That is what I will do next
year with the obvious joke games. Since the authors want to try and get a
last place finish, if every judge simply skipped over their games, they
wouldn't place at all.

James Mitchelhill

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Nov 16, 2005, 9:27:25 PM11/16/05
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On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 01:44:14 GMT, Adam Myrow wrote:

> All I can say about the load of joke games this year is that it completely

There's always been joke games. I think the first comp was joke game
free, but looking at Comp96, there were two Rybread Celsius games.

> killed my enthusiasm. I had the web interface generate me a random list,
> and the first two games it gave me were PTBAD6andoneeighth followed by
> Ninja II. Then, looking down the list, and reading the blurbs, I discover
> Amissville II, FutureGame (tm), and Jesus of Nazareth. Seeing all these
> joke games just gave me the feeling that this competition wasn't worth
> judging.

That's up to you. Some games in this years comp were excellent. I
enjoyed discovering them. You're not obligated to play all the games,
nor are you obligated to rate the joke games. You can ignore them
completely if you want.

I actually liked FutureGame(tm). It was short, obviously didn't want to
be taken seriously and was a nice diversion. That's how a joke game
should be.

> I ended up completing 3 games, and getting about halfway through
> a fourth. I think there needs to be a rule that forbids deliberately bad
> games.

How can you tell if a game is deliberately bad or just bad? For that
matter, who's going to judge whether a game is bad or not? One of the
games I rated a 3 turned up in the top 3. Another I rated a 2, while
others rated it highly. It can be a very subjective thing.

> I would rather judge a few games where the authors are putting
> forth an honest effort then 40 games where the authors are throwing
> together some trash in 5 minutes just to irritate judges. This is supposed
> to be a competition for the best game, not the worst.

I like the IFComp as it is. I do find that writing reviews helps. Bad
games can be quite fun to play when you're enumerating all the ways they
are bad.

Derek Ray

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Nov 16, 2005, 9:50:34 PM11/16/05
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Adam Myrow wrote:
> Andrew Plotkin <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
>> There is no practical way to keep bad games out of the competition.[*]
>
> Of course not. However, let me try and explain further. What I found
> off putting, even insulting, were things like the blurb for
> PTBAD6andoneeighth which was full of typos, and brags about all the
> spelling errors. Then, there is this line from the GameInfo.txt file for
> Amissville II. "In keeping with Santoonie tradition, there is no walk
> thru. The game was written for the amusement of it's authors." I think

Well... Why even bother playing it?

Rate it a 1, and continue onward. I have no problem, personally, with a
judge saying "Jeez, not this #@$% again", and basing their judgement on
such things. The ones like Hello Sword (ouch) or Cavern of Lowercase
are likely to hurt to review too, but at least those people were
honestly trying, and as such do at least deserve the bad review, IMO --
if only so they know what to improve.

Reviewing Amissville II, on the other hand, is surely like encountering
a riced-out Yugo at a sports car show with the owner standing next to it
saying "Blows the doors off Ferrari! I swear!" Do you even need to
take a test drive to know it doesn't measure up?

> that games whose readme file or blurb clearly demonstrate that they are bad
> just because the author feels like making a bad game are the problem.

It's only a problem if they win, IMO.

> If we can't disqualify joke games outright, how about a mass refusal to
> give them any rating and simply skip them? That is what I will do next

... From what I can see of the reviews, nobody bothered to play them for
more than about five minutes. Tops.

Not that you can play FutureGame for more than five minutes anyway.

> year with the obvious joke games. Since the authors want to try and get a
> last place finish, if every judge simply skipped over their games, they
> wouldn't place at all.

Alternately, if every judge rates them as '1', the authors will all tie
and nobody gets last place. Zero winners.

--
Derek

insert clever quotation here

Mike Roberts

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Nov 16, 2005, 10:13:58 PM11/16/05
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"Adam Myrow" <amy...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
> I think that games whose readme file or blurb clearly
> demonstrate that they are bad just because the author
> feels like making a bad game are the problem.

I basically share your frustration, but I don't see a good way around it.
Someone would have to do this pre-screening, and the pre-screening decisions
would inevitably lead to controversy and hard feelings and accusations of
elitism and/or incompetence. The genius of the Comp (or part of its genius,
anyway) is the almost perfect democracy of the judging. The downside is
that everyone has to waste a little time weeding out the joke entries.

> If we can't disqualify joke games outright, how about a
> mass refusal to give them any rating and simply skip them?

> Since the authors want to try and get a last place finish, if
> every judge simply skipped over their games, they wouldn't
> place at all.

The only problem with that approach is that it will give undue weight to any
high votes the game gets from other judges. If many people followed this
strategy, you'd have the joke games getting perversely high scores.

I really don't believe the last-place spot is much of a motivator for
anyone, whatever the recipient might say after the fact - "I really wanted
last place" sounds like a pretty weak rationalization to me. What they
really want is the attention - to know that people will be talking about
their game, and maybe to know they wasted a bunch of people's time. So
here's my suggested strategy: a mass refusal to give joke games any reviews.
If you think a game was entered in bad faith, as an intentional waste of
your time, give it a 1 and nothing more; don't even mention its name in your
reviews.

--Mike
mjr underscore at hotmail dot com


aph...@altavista.com

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Nov 16, 2005, 10:24:45 PM11/16/05
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> [* Every year someone suggests two-stage competition voting, or a panel
> of pre-screen judges. This amounts to adding a new competition to
> solve the problem of the "wrong people" entering the competition.
> Which is iffy in several different ways, which is why we never do it
> that way.]
>
> --Z
>

Wrong people. heh.

All you need to do is create a membership, right now it's a public
competition. Maybe it should be a competition for the members, and not
to rule out new people, becuase new people can easily become new
members.

I, represent the public. I am the fat lady with 32 items in the
express checkout, I'm the old man driving 20 on the highway. I'm the
cashier who doesn't know how to change register tape. I'm the garbage
man who only dumps half of the garbage and leaves the rest on your
lawn, I'm the paperboy who never comes, I'm the ...

Anyway Im Mr. Public and sadly, there's more wrong people roaming
around bumping into things and being dopes than 'normal people'. I
don't act public on purpose, maybe like Paul here does, for me it's
just the norm. I really only have a high school education, I was too
interested in the Ladieeesss to continue any further. I know what your
thinking, theres ladieess in college, but I have a thing for pool hall
girls.

Anyway, I'm not intimidated by moderation, memberships, or new rules,
Whatever happens, happens. If I'm shut out, I'll move on, its that
simple. Panks here is the one who gets all emotional.

A.P. Hill

aph...@altavista.com

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Nov 16, 2005, 10:33:59 PM11/16/05
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One more thing though as I sit here reading this comical bs, it's the
same thing every year, we post one or two congrates to the winner and
then we spend a month in 'negative' mode.

You guys need to frigin celebrate the games, celebrate the winner, talk
about the games, share your transcripts, really, you all look like
imbiciles, please, Please don't let any major publications, like USA
Today, or whatever... see this newsgroup.

Raymond Martineau

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Nov 16, 2005, 10:41:47 PM11/16/05
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On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:27:25 +0000, James Mitchelhill
<ja...@disorderfeed.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 01:44:14 GMT, Adam Myrow wrote:
>
>> All I can say about the load of joke games this year is that it completely
>
>There's always been joke games. I think the first comp was joke game
>free, but looking at Comp96, there were two Rybread Celsius games.

Comp95 had Undo and Detective. If you include Tube Trouble (which had a
very strange puzzle), then you have three joke entries.

At least the Detective submission was obvious about the bad-game satire.

Autymn D. C.

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Nov 16, 2005, 11:03:34 PM11/16/05
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your -> you're

imbiciles -> imbeciles

dun...@yahoo.com

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Nov 16, 2005, 11:05:22 PM11/16/05
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A.P.,

To be honest, I only get emotional when someone goes out of their way
to intentionally slam my work or works out of spite. Yeah, Ninja II was
a joke entry, but I put a lot of effort into my others games (e.g.
Westfront PC, HLA Adventure, etc.). And then when they start slamming
my non-IF writing -- even though it has been published in magazines and
by major media outlets -- that's where I draw the line. Especially when
they make off handed remarks about feeling sorry for the AIDS patients
I'll be working with in the hospital. You know what? They don't know
me, nor do they know how sympathetic I am to people who are less
fortunate or suffer needlessly from the corporate greed of
pharmaceutical companies. I have a degree in Sociology from an
accredited university. I am a smart individual who just happens to
suffer from a mild form of mental illness.

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter if my games are well
received by the 50 or so people on this newsgroup. I'm not here to
please them. Nor do I care what they think.

Paul

Nightingale

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Nov 16, 2005, 11:16:35 PM11/16/05
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"Andrew Plotkin" <erky...@eblong.com> wrote in message
news:dlgo1o$849$1...@reader2.panix.com...

> Therefore, you have two options. One: Don't judge the games; wait for
> the results and play the top scorers. Two: Don't get irritated at the
> bad games; write down a 1 after three minutes and move on.

After four years of getting really annoyed with bad games, I finally gave up
trying to honestly jusge everything and used this method. I actually give it
about ten minutes of gameplay, and if I'm feeling annoyed after those ten
minutes, it gets a 1.

-N


Autymn D. C.

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Nov 16, 2005, 11:29:12 PM11/16/05
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dun...@yahoo.com wrote:
> I wrote Jesus of Nazareth to be something completely different from
> previous games I have authored (see: Westfront PC and HLA Adventure for
> examples). Jesus of Nazareth was entered into the 2005 IF Comp on the
> hopes that it would be blasphemous, but also somewhat funny (Jesus has
> hit points? SWEEEEET!). Yes, it has some bugs (noticed after I entered
> it into the competition, but after the final, so I was stuck in that
> regard).

Jesus did have hit points. He cheated by using a blessed cloak of
regeneration: Mark 5:25-34; Luke 8:43-48.

"Jesus is magic!" -Sarah Silverman

-Aut

dun...@yahoo.com

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Nov 16, 2005, 11:31:18 PM11/16/05
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Maybe. But isn't that just a +1 or +2 bonus, per AD&D rules? :)

Paul

Autymn D. C.

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Nov 17, 2005, 12:01:58 AM11/17/05
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Andrew Plotkin

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Nov 17, 2005, 12:50:05 AM11/17/05
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Here, Mike Roberts <mj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Adam Myrow" <amy...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
> > I think that games whose readme file or blurb clearly
> > demonstrate that they are bad just because the author
> > feels like making a bad game are the problem.
>
> I basically share your frustration, but I don't see a good way
> around it.

I have the half-serious thought that we should add a rule like this:

"Any game which disparages itself, or which is disparaged by the
author -- in the intro text, help text, or any other such prolegomena
-- will not be accepted as an entry."

It is, obviously, a purely symbolic gesture. The usual suspects would
keep entering the same stuff, with a tacked-on prolog saying "This is
the greatest game ever!" But at least they'd have to *pretend*.

dwh...@gmail.com

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Nov 17, 2005, 2:26:46 AM11/17/05
to

dun...@yahoo.com wrote:

> At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter if my games are well
> received by the 50 or so people on this newsgroup. I'm not here to
> please them. Nor do I care what they think.
>
> Paul

You do talk some crap sometimes. You go on at length about how you
don't care less about the opinions of the people here, then you throw a
temper tantrum when one of them says he doesn't like your games or
criticises some fifth rate article or book you wrote.

Face it, Panks. Getting recognition from the RAIF/RGIF crowd is the be
all and end all of your sad little existence. Why else post here?

dun...@yahoo.com

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Nov 17, 2005, 3:00:54 AM11/17/05
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To annoy David, obviously...

Paul

Paul E Collins

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Nov 17, 2005, 7:23:23 AM11/17/05
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"Autymn D. C." <lysd...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Jesus did have hit points. He cheated by using a
> blessed cloak of regeneration: Mark 5:25-34;
> Luke 8:43-48.

Jesus don't want me for a Sunsword.

P.


Rikard Peterson

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Nov 17, 2005, 8:36:01 AM11/17/05
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"" wrote in
news:1132197885.6...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

> I am the fat lady with 32 items in the
> express checkout, I'm the old man driving 20 on the highway. I'm
> the cashier who doesn't know how to change register tape. I'm the
> garbage man who only dumps half of the garbage and leaves the rest
> on your lawn, I'm the paperboy who never comes, I'm the ...

Darkwing Duck!

Michael Martin

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Nov 17, 2005, 10:39:05 AM11/17/05
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>I actually liked FutureGame(tm). It was short, obviously didn't want to
>be taken seriously and was a nice diversion. That's how a joke game
>should be.

I agree; FutureGame(tm) is respectful of the player in ways that other
joke games like PTBAD, and even some apparently seriously intended
games like Dreary Lands, were not.

And actually, comparing my reviews this year with last, there were a
lot more mediocre games and fewer perversely awful ones. I didn't give
nearly as many 7+ scores, but I didn't give nearly as many 1s and 2s
either.

--Michael

dgen...@hotmail.com

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Nov 17, 2005, 11:23:37 AM11/17/05
to

APHill,
I rather liked your game. It wasn't the best of the competition, but
it offered a competently programmed, cartoonish atmosphere, which I
enjoyed. I felt like I was in a Doonesbury strip, or something of that
nature. I also enjoyed the sprawling landscape. I like big-map games,
even though they are currently out of fashion. The graphics were well
chosen. As far as I played, the story was highly linear (complete one
quest,only to be sent on another) which is frustrating to me as a
player, but the puzzle I completed wasn't difficult. Just took some
time to explore all the locations, and find my way back to the
campsite.

So congratulations to ALL of you at the Santoonie Corporation.

Dave

aph...@altavista.com

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Nov 17, 2005, 11:38:13 AM11/17/05
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Pfffttt. (spilt milk) LOL! That's all I'm talkin' about.lol.
comedy!

aph...@altavista.com

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Nov 17, 2005, 11:46:08 AM11/17/05
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I present to you the A.P. Hill's Nascar theory to next year's comp. I
call it the Nascar theory becuase of a model used in online nascar
races.

Ahem!

I race nascar, I am a poor driver, I tend to hit walls, barriers and
other cars. When I don't finish well, I don't earn points. Races
require certain points to enter. Rats I can't enter that race due to
my antics! Therefore

Everyone starts at x amount of points, even newcomers. The score your
game gets lowers or highers your points., You must have x amount of
points to enter each years comp.

Whala

A.P. Hill

aph...@altavista.com

unread,
Nov 17, 2005, 12:06:20 PM11/17/05
to
I don't know though, I still richly believe you can't have moderation,
it simply confines the growth. I guess it all boils down to who wants
IF to grow and evolve and who wants IF to stay in a shell.

"Hi, I'm Mr. Bob Dylan and I know you despise me for going electric,
but I'd like to play one more song called, Hot for Teacher:
http://www.santoonie.com/software/lostchord.mp3 "

Bob

unread,
Nov 17, 2005, 2:24:12 PM11/17/05
to
I didn't play Santoonie's entry yet (damn this random playlist!), but I
pretty much enjoyed last years game which featured the second best
sidekick of last years comp (the best being Spider from Splashdown - a
game I can't praise enough).

Bob

Mike Snyder

unread,
Nov 17, 2005, 2:45:31 PM11/17/05
to
"Bob" <soen...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132255452....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I liked last year's game a *lot* more than this one. My biggest problem with
Amissville II was that I never was sure I was missing puzzlely things, or if
the game was broken. There were two spots I couldn't return from, making me
think I might be in an unwinnable state. I played for two and a half hours
(if I recall correctly), and finally decided that I couldn't trust the world
logic enough to make progress.

I'd be interested in playing through with a walkthrough, if anybody can
provide one.

--- Mike.


Mike Roberts

unread,
Nov 17, 2005, 5:28:23 PM11/17/05
to
"Andrew Plotkin" <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> Here, Mike Roberts <mj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> "Adam Myrow" <amy...@midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
>> > I think that games whose readme file or blurb clearly
>> > demonstrate that they are bad just because the author
>> > feels like making a bad game are the problem.
>>
>> I basically share your frustration, but I don't see a good way
>> around it.
>
> I have the half-serious thought that we should add a rule like this:
>
> "Any game which disparages itself, or which is disparaged by the
> author -- in the intro text, help text, or any other such prolegomena
> -- will not be accepted as an entry."

The only problems with a rule like that are (1) it would tend to exclude
parodies of the intentionally-bad-Comp-game cliche (which we're ripe for,
now that it's happened enough times to be identifiable as a cliche), and (2)
someone would have to make the judgment, and that would inevitably lead to
fights. I suppose you could solve both of these by requiring the entrants
themselves to make the call, such as by checking a box on the entry form (so
to speak) affirming that it's not an intentionally bad game - but that seems
kind of pointless, since I can't see any meaningful sanctions that could be
applied for false affirmations.

I wonder if there's some sort of "soft" pre-screening rule that could help -
by "soft" I mean something that wouldn't actually exclude anyone who really
wanted to enter, but would be an encouraged extra step to build the
confidence of the judges. Something reputation-based, perhaps. For
example: allow each entrant to submit a short list of "approvers" - these
would be beta testers who are willing to say that they looked at the game
and found it worthy of entry. Limit it to, say, two or three approvers per
game, to avoid making it a contest over who has the longest approver list;
and make the approval itself very basic, to avoid making it look like an
early review - an approval would be a simple yes/no that indicates only that
the game met a low minimum standard of entry-worthiness. It would be purely
optional. Judges who felt pressed for time could use the approver list to
de-prioritize entries with no approvers, or with approvers they don't know,
or do know but don't trust. There's still a danger that "celebrity"
approvers might give a game a subliminal boost in the minds of some judges;
but presumably that's already a factor anyway, as games can simply list
their testers in their ABOUT text - besides, games can have celebrity
*authors*, which has to be a much bigger prejudicing influence.

Andrew Plotkin

unread,
Nov 17, 2005, 5:57:35 PM11/17/05
to
Here, Mike Roberts <mj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Andrew Plotkin" <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> >
> > I have the half-serious thought that we should add a rule like this:
> >
> > "Any game which disparages itself, or which is disparaged by the
> > author -- in the intro text, help text, or any other such prolegomena
> > -- will not be accepted as an entry."
>
> The only problems with a rule like that are (1) it would tend to exclude
> parodies of the intentionally-bad-Comp-game cliche (which we're ripe for,
> now that it's happened enough times to be identifiable as a cliche), and (2)
> someone would have to make the judgment, and that would inevitably lead to
> fights.

That's why we have a Comp Organizer. (Also why the Comp Organizer gets
to decide whether to take my half-serious thoughts seriously.) I did
intentionally phrase that rule as shallowly and objectively as I
could.

As for parodies -- that's another reason I phrased the rule shallowly.
If you can do a parody of a bad game which manages -- in the first
thirty seconds! -- to convince the player that it is in fact only
*pretending* to be a bad game, you can certainly avoid a few key
phrases like "This game sucks."

> I suppose you could solve both of these by requiring the entrants
> themselves to make the call, such as by checking a box on the entry
> form (so to speak) affirming that it's not an intentionally bad game
> - but that seems kind of pointless, since I can't see any meaningful
> sanctions that could be applied for false affirmations.

It's the wrong kind of pointless. If people are going to have to make
a gesture, it should be a public gesture.

> I wonder if there's some sort of "soft" pre-screening rule that could help -
> by "soft" I mean something that wouldn't actually exclude anyone who really
> wanted to enter, but would be an encouraged extra step to build the
> confidence of the judges.

Way, way too much effort. Remember, the most this system can save me
is the two minutes it takes to recognize what I'm looking at.

Nobody in this thread has been bemoaning a game where you play,
engrossed, for an hour and *then* discover it was intentionally bad.

Mike Roberts

unread,
Nov 17, 2005, 6:35:32 PM11/17/05
to
"Andrew Plotkin" <erky...@eblong.com> wrote:
> Here, Mike Roberts <mj...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I wonder if there's some sort of "soft" pre-screening rule
>> that could help [...]

>
> Way, way too much effort.

Really? For whom? My "approver" idea doesn't seem like any extra work for
judges, who can use the information or not; it is admittedly some work for
the contest organizer, but it doesn't seem too onerous; and presumably most
authors are already beta-testing anyway, so it's just a matter of including
the names in their submissions.

> Remember, the most this system can save me is the two
> minutes it takes to recognize what I'm looking at.

Well, I'm not so sure; for one thing it's two minutes times the number of
sucky games, and for another I think a hundred and twenty seconds is rather
harsher than most judges are willing to be. I think the complaint is more
that a lot of judges feel compelled to give even an apparently sucky game
more than two minutes, to make sure they're not just missing something.
It's not so much an expectation that non-sucky bits might occur later in a
game that starts off demonstrably suckily; it's more a benefit of the doubt
sort of thing. I've played a few games in Comps where I was pretty sure
within a couple of minutes that the game was sucky, but I just didn't feel
like it was fair to judge it on so little data, so I ended up sinking more
time into it to be sure. For me, at least, ten or fifteen minutes is
probably a more reasonable minimum.

I'm sure the easiest solution would be for judges to be willing to dismiss
games that appear to suck in the first two minutes. In a 35-game Comp
that's a maximum of about an hour wasted. But if you ratchet up the minimum
time just a little, it starts to get significant, and I think that's where
the complaints come from.

J. Robinson Wheeler

unread,
Nov 17, 2005, 7:14:16 PM11/17/05
to
aph...@altavista.com wrote:

> One more thing though as I sit here reading this comical bs, it's
> the same thing every year, we post one or two congrates to the
> winner and then we spend a month in 'negative' mode.
>
> You guys need to frigin celebrate the games, celebrate the winner,
> talk about the games, share your transcripts, really, you all look

> like imbiciles.


Ah, a burst of cogency. And I agree. My general Comp fatigue that
has grown over the years is not just about the games, but about
seeing the same negative discussion afterwards every time. It
is starting to seem farcical at that.

Likewise, it is a splash of cold water that it takes A.P.Hill, with
his fool-on-the-hill's perspective, to exhort us to celebrate IF.
What else are we here for?


--
J. Robinson Wheeler IF Games and Reviews: http://raddial.com/if
JRW Digital Media Movie: http://thekroneexperiment.com/

aph...@altavista.com

unread,
Nov 18, 2005, 12:13:51 AM11/18/05
to
I just got back from an all nighter dart tournament, so I'm drunk,
but...

Thanks! It's like Tilli said, we just couldn't get it done. I think I
know what you guys like, cause it's the same stuff I like. Going
forward we should see more games like Zero, Amissville II was so
burdensome, it was something we felt compelled to do, but couldn't get
it down right. When your forced to do something, it kinda fades.

Whymsical fairy tales always are fun, who wouldn't want to carry around
a female pixie in their pocket!

Boluc Papuccuoglu

unread,
Nov 18, 2005, 3:44:15 AM11/18/05
to

On the whole, I agree that the best strategy for attention seeking
idiots is ignoring them (It doesn't take much time, and wasting
resources on dealing with the sociopaths is a reward in itself for
them). But, every now and then (a few times a year), I have a
conversation like this with a friend:

Fr:So, what are you playing these days?
BP:I've been wracking my brains trying to solve this cool text
adventure called "Muldoon Legacy".
Fr:Are there still people writing text adventures?
BP:Sure, last year alone there were 30 new games written. That's more
than Infocom's whole body of work.

And at this point, I would like to direct him toward last year's
IfComp offerings. (That's how I got started on modern IF, by reading
about the comp in the underdogs) However, I can't do that because of
all the dross the poor guy will have to sift through (though it is
more likely he will give up on the first bad game he sees) to get to
any of the better stuff.

My point is that the bad games in each year's comp are not having much
effect on us jaded folk, but are hurting the community by slowing
expansion.

aph...@altavista.com

unread,
Nov 18, 2005, 8:34:05 AM11/18/05
to
I disagree with your last statement about hurting community etc, too
much junk to sift through etc etc. There is <i>already</i> a ton of
junk on the archive to sift through, it is overwelming for anyone new.

I think expansion is set on the shoulders of that first single person
who has a break out game. And how do you make a masterpiece in IF, you
keep trying. You view others work, you take notes, you play them, you
talk about them.

Does a masterpiece exist at this moment, hell no. Too many people
walking around here thinking they've done all they can do. Blah.

Derek Ray

unread,
Nov 18, 2005, 8:53:17 AM11/18/05
to
From what I can see, everyone wants to talk about "expansion", but
nobody has bothered to define:

a) why is IF no longer as popular? (Everyone KNOWS, but it will help to
get it down to a concrete definition)

b) what will it take to address each of (a)?

THEN you start working on your breakout game, after solving all those
problems. The best idea in the world will be dreck if it's not written
in a manner that allows it to succeed.

aph...@altavista.com wrote:
> I disagree with your last statement about hurting community etc, too
> much junk to sift through etc etc. There is <i>already</i> a ton of
> junk on the archive to sift through, it is overwelming for anyone new.

...


> I think expansion is set on the shoulders of that first single person
> who has a break out game. And how do you make a masterpiece in IF, you

...


> Does a masterpiece exist at this moment, hell no. Too many people
> walking around here thinking they've done all they can do. Blah.
>

--
Derek

insert clever quotation here

rgrassi

unread,
Nov 18, 2005, 11:58:42 AM11/18/05
to
My answers are:

> a) why is IF no longer as popular? (Everyone KNOWS, but it will help to
> get it down to a concrete definition)

My opinion.
Because it missed the opportunity to move toward a window and
point&click based gameplay (which does not necessarily mean that it
will lose the 'text based' centric adventurish approach) and "current"
authoring tools are based upon the paradigm that the *best* way to
write and play IF is basically the same way choosen twenty years ago.
Rob

Mike Snyder

unread,
Nov 18, 2005, 12:27:32 PM11/18/05
to
"rgrassi" <rgras...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132333122.9...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

I don't know if I agree that an opportunity was missed.

IF is what remains after other kinds of adventure games evolved along a
different path. There seems to be a very large community of
point-and-clickers, and people doing things along the SCUMM / Sierra style.

http://www.adventuredevelopers.com/

---- Mike.


The Wanderer

unread,
Nov 18, 2005, 1:06:41 PM11/18/05
to
aph...@altavista.com wrote:

> I disagree with your last statement about hurting community etc, too
> much junk to sift through etc etc. There is <i>already</i> a ton of
> junk on the archive to sift through, it is overwelming for anyone
> new.

But I think that part of Boluc's point was that the Comp (and, even more
so, its winners) should be able to serve as a kind of "filter" for that,
to winnow out the junk and leave the better stuff behind. If
intentionally bad entries (not just "joke" entries, because humor pieces
- the IF equivalent of what in fanfiction is called a spamfic - are not
necessarily bad) make too much of a showing, however, then the Comp can
not be used for that purpose.

(My own problem with finding "good" stuff is that most of the kind of
thing I like doesn't seem to have a lot of overlap with what is
considered "good" IF, so a) I can't really rely too much on many of the
recommendations I see and b) not a lot of my type of game are being
written anyway... at least not a lot which are any good in other ways.)

--
The Wanderer

Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.

Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.

dgen...@hotmail.com

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Nov 18, 2005, 3:08:11 PM11/18/05
to

I've had luck searching for good games in the Baf's guide. The Baf's
search engine also allows you to search for games by an author you
especially like, by genre, or even by type of puzzle (though I'm not
sure how reliable that last feature really is) so you can always find
just what you want.

As far as filtering bad games prior to a competition- well, that's what
the competition is for! This was my first year judging the
competition, and one of the things which really excited me about doing
that was the opportunity to discover for myself which were the good
games, and which ones really sucked, without reading anyone else
reviews in advance.

A gem discovered by accident, amongst a trowel of dirt, shines twice as
brightly as any you might find pre-appraised by the jeweler.

Dave

The Wanderer

unread,
Nov 18, 2005, 4:38:26 PM11/18/05
to
dgen...@hotmail.com wrote:

> The Wanderer wrote:
>
>> aph...@altavista.com wrote:
>>
>>> I disagree with your last statement about hurting community etc,
>>> too much junk to sift through etc etc. There is <i>already</i> a
>>> ton of junk on the archive to sift through, it is overwelming for
>>> anyone new.
>>
>> But I think that part of Boluc's point was that the Comp (and, even
>> more so, its winners) should be able to serve as a kind of "filter"
>> for that, to winnow out the junk and leave the better stuff behind.
>> If intentionally bad entries (not just "joke" entries, because
>> humor pieces - the IF equivalent of what in fanfiction is called a
>> spamfic - are not necessarily bad) make too much of a showing,
>> however, then the Comp can not be used for that purpose.
>>
>> (My own problem with finding "good" stuff is that most of the kind
>> of thing I like doesn't seem to have a lot of overlap with what is
>> considered "good" IF, so a) I can't really rely too much on many of
>> the recommendations I see and b) not a lot of my type of game are
>> being written anyway... at least not a lot which are any good in
>> other ways.)
>

> I've had luck searching for good games in the Baf's guide. The Baf's
> search engine also allows you to search for games by an author you
> especially like, by genre, or even by type of puzzle (though I'm not
> sure how reliable that last feature really is) so you can always find
> just what you want.

I've found a few good pieces in there, but not very many - and I'm not
sure whether that's due to poor searching on my part, or just a paucity
of available games which meet my criteria.

Y'see, I *like* games in which you're supposed to go around exploring,
mapping (I've made maps for a few games which *really* didn't need it,
just because I enjoy making maps), finding puzzles, finding clues,
finding key items, figuring out which item is supposed to go with which
puzzle; the best match to my tastes I've seen in freely-available IF is
probably Not Just an Ordinary Ballerina, although I'll note on that
point that I don't enjoy unmappable mazes. I also don't enjoy games with
paths which are dead ends if you don't do them at the right time but
don't let you find that out till it's too late (or rather, a
poorly-defined subset of "can be made unwinnable" games) - the first
example which springs to mind being "Curses", which is otherwise very
much enjoyable. I'm not even sure I like games which rely too much on
interaction with NPCs, just because it's that much more difficult to
grasp it all and figure out what makes sense where, when and why. I'm
further handicapped by having very high standards for linguistic
quality; sloppy prose tends to turn me off of a game very quickly.

The trend in games written by those with the right skills to avoid
falling foul of that last criterion seems to be away from games where
mapping makes sense, games where puzzles are the point, games which do
not trap you in unwinnability without letting you know about it (and
that's a poor job of expressing the quality I'm actually thinking of),
and towards things with more highfalutin' aims, greater literary merit,
and so forth. I have no objection to people wanting to create such
games; I even agree that some of them probably have considerably greater
lasting value than would just about any game of the type I want. It's
just that I don't *enjoy* them, and since I seem to be in a considerable
minority there (at least among people with enough apparent prestige that
I'd be otherwise inclined to trust their opinions), I can't really go by
most of the recommendations I've ever come across.

Yes, it is possible to search and/or filter on some relevant things in
Baf's Guide - but not nearly enough to fit some of my criteria; even
with all else failing, there is no way that I've noticed to judge the
"production values" (ranging from depth of implementation to simple
spelling and grammar) of a game without either asking someone who's
played it or downloading it and playing it oneself, and that hurdle is
probably the hardest of all.

> As far as filtering bad games prior to a competition- well, that's
> what the competition is for! This was my first year judging the
> competition, and one of the things which really excited me about
> doing that was the opportunity to discover for myself which were the
> good games, and which ones really sucked, without reading anyone else
> reviews in advance.
>
> A gem discovered by accident, amongst a trowel of dirt, shines twice
> as brightly as any you might find pre-appraised by the jeweler.

True enough. I was primarily just explaining a point I felt had been
missed, not assessing whether that point had final merit. (I think that
the situation is more complicated than either side has really gone into,
yet, but I'm not competent to do it justice either.)

lumi...@hotmail.com

unread,
Nov 18, 2005, 8:17:04 PM11/18/05
to
Mike Roberts wrote:

>
> I wonder if there's some sort of "soft" pre-screening rule that could help -
> by "soft" I mean something that wouldn't actually exclude anyone who really
> wanted to enter, but would be an encouraged extra step to build the
> confidence of the judges. Something reputation-based, perhaps. For
> example: allow each entrant to submit a short list of "approvers" - these
> would be beta testers who are willing to say that they looked at the game
> and found it worthy of entry. Limit it to, say, two or three approvers per
> game, to avoid making it a contest over who has the longest approver list;
> and make the approval itself very basic, to avoid making it look like an
> early review - an approval would be a simple yes/no that indicates only that
> the game met a low minimum standard of entry-worthiness. It would be purely
> optional. Judges who felt pressed for time could use the approver list to
> de-prioritize entries with no approvers, or with approvers they don't know,
> or do know but don't trust. There's still a danger that "celebrity"
> approvers might give a game a subliminal boost in the minds of some judges;
> but presumably that's already a factor anyway, as games can simply list
> their testers in their ABOUT text - besides, games can have celebrity
> *authors*, which has to be a much bigger prejudicing influence.
>
> --Mike
> mjr underscore at hotmail dot com


This has probably been suggested before, but instead of something like
this, is there any reason the IFComp can't just start requiring a small
entry fee, like the SpringComp?

I'm sure even then there might still be a few idiots so intent on
wasting everyone's time they don't mind parting with a few bucks to do
so, but at least they'll be contributing to the prize money for the
legitimate authors.

James Mitchelhill

unread,
Nov 18, 2005, 9:26:24 PM11/18/05
to
On 18 Nov 2005 17:17:04 -0800, lumi...@hotmail.com wrote:

<snip>


> This has probably been suggested before, but instead of something like
> this, is there any reason the IFComp can't just start requiring a small
> entry fee, like the SpringComp?

This would be a bad thing. Many people who enter the IFComp are first
time authors. Since it's difficult for first time authors to get reviews
or discussion of their small games without entering the IFComp (which is
itself a bad thing, but that's been discussed many times over), having
the major comp put up a barrier to new entrants would be absolutely
awful for the future of the IF community.

[Speaking of reviews and discussion, is the Game of the Week project
still active?]

--
James Mitchelhill
ja...@disorderfeed.net
http://disorderfeed.net

Dan Shiovitz

unread,
Nov 18, 2005, 10:20:58 PM11/18/05
to
In article <mu6dnXMQ5s5...@comcast.com>,
The Wanderer <inverse...@comcast.net> wrote:
>dgen...@hotmail.com wrote:
[..]

>> I've had luck searching for good games in the Baf's guide. The Baf's
>> search engine also allows you to search for games by an author you
>> especially like, by genre, or even by type of puzzle (though I'm not
>> sure how reliable that last feature really is) so you can always find
>> just what you want.
>
>I've found a few good pieces in there, but not very many - and I'm not
>sure whether that's due to poor searching on my part, or just a paucity
>of available games which meet my criteria.
>
>Y'see, I *like* games in which you're supposed to go around exploring,
>mapping (I've made maps for a few games which *really* didn't need it,
>just because I enjoy making maps), finding puzzles, finding clues,
[..]

As so often in these situations, I would recommend you check out the IF
Scoreboard -- in this case, specifically stuff listed in the
Puzzle-Fest genre:
http://www.carouselchain.com/if/statistics.php?genre=23&type=genre&limit=10

In addition, a more recent game that I am playing right now is
"Finding Martin" which seems like almost exactly what you are looking for:
http://mirror.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/tads/fm.gam

> The Wanderer
--
Dan Shiovitz :: d...@cs.wisc.edu :: http://www.drizzle.com/~dans
"He settled down to dictate a letter to the Consolidated Nailfile and
Eyebrow Tweezer Corporation of Scranton, Pa., which would make them
realize that life is stern and earnest and Nailfile and Eyebrow Tweezer
Corporations are not put in this world for pleasure alone." -PGW

The Wanderer

unread,
Nov 19, 2005, 10:36:56 AM11/19/05
to
Dan Shiovitz wrote:

> In article <mu6dnXMQ5s5...@comcast.com>, The Wanderer
> <inverse...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> dgen...@hotmail.com wrote:

>>> I've had luck searching for good games in the Baf's guide. The
>>> Baf's search engine also allows you to search for games by an
>>> author you especially like, by genre, or even by type of puzzle
>>> (though I'm not sure how reliable that last feature really is) so
>>> you can always find just what you want.
>>
>> I've found a few good pieces in there, but not very many - and I'm
>> not sure whether that's due to poor searching on my part, or just a
>> paucity of available games which meet my criteria.
>>
>> Y'see, I *like* games in which you're supposed to go around
>> exploring, mapping (I've made maps for a few games which *really*
>> didn't need it, just because I enjoy making maps), finding puzzles,
>> finding clues,
>

> As so often in these situations, I would recommend you check out the
> IF Scoreboard -- in this case, specifically stuff listed in the
> Puzzle-Fest genre:
> http://www.carouselchain.com/if/statistics.php?genre=23&type=genre&limit=10

Hmmmm. Okay, this is a resource I'd never heard of; thank you very much.
I'll be certain to explore that in some depth when I have the time.

Genre categories aren't necessarily all that useful, for various
reasons, but when combined with an actual rating system it sounds like
it could indeed be quite helpful.

It happens that at least one of the games on that list, Ad Verbum, is
one I'd already played and enjoyed (although I now find that I can't
remember the solutions to half the more irritating puzzles); this is
probably a good sign for some of the rest.

> In addition, a more recent game that I am playing right now is
> "Finding Martin" which seems like almost exactly what you are looking
> for:
> http://mirror.ifarchive.org/if-archive/games/tads/fm.gam

And I've already received a private mail about that game from its
apparent author, on the strength of the fact that you mentioned it to
me. I've downloaded it already, just on general principles, and by
default it will probably be the next game I try; again, thanks for the
recommendation.

Richard Bos

unread,
Nov 19, 2005, 10:38:05 AM11/19/05
to
Derek Ray <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[ Please... don't top-post. ]

> From what I can see, everyone wants to talk about "expansion", but
> nobody has bothered to define:
>
> a) why is IF no longer as popular? (Everyone KNOWS, but it will help to
> get it down to a concrete definition)

I think this is a red herring. IF still is as popular as ever: it never
was very popular. Oh, at a certain time it enjoyed a certain popularity
among computer owners; but that was well before PCs became common place.
Most computer game players of today, those who play Quake and Call of
Duty and who chat on MSN, are the people who would, when text adventures
were "popular", have looked down on adventure players as hopeless geeks.
And still do, only now they, too, own computers.

Richard

David Thornley

unread,
Nov 19, 2005, 12:48:12 PM11/19/05
to
In article <1132179687.5...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<dun...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>No, David, it is not the best I am capable of. But since you don't give
>a fuck to even LOOK at any of the games I have written, why should I
>care to pander to your trivial needs?
>
For the reason that entering a game in the comp is a request for
hundreds of people to play it enough to form opinions. Uploading
a bad game to the IF archive does little harm, as nobody has any
feeling of obligation to play it. Submitting one to the comp
is at best discourteous.

You put a game where it is going to get played a lot, don't bother
to make it good, and then complain that nobody looks at your games
so it doesn't matter? You're not making sense.

--
David H. Thornley | If you want my opinion, ask.
da...@thornley.net | If you don't, flee.
http://www.thornley.net/~thornley/david/ | O-

David Thornley

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Nov 19, 2005, 1:03:28 PM11/19/05
to
In article <a6idnaQmV-6...@comcast.com>,

The Wanderer <inverse...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>But I think that part of Boluc's point was that the Comp (and, even more
>so, its winners) should be able to serve as a kind of "filter" for that,
>to winnow out the junk and leave the better stuff behind. If
>intentionally bad entries (not just "joke" entries, because humor pieces
>- the IF equivalent of what in fanfiction is called a spamfic - are not
>necessarily bad) make too much of a showing, however, then the Comp can
>not be used for that purpose.
>