Amissville - the movie
C.M.
> C.M. wrote:
> > I played it for over TEN HOURS.
>
> Of course you did - you wrote it.
I am not Mr. A.P. Hill (although I am an admirer of him). If you do
not believe me, call me on my cellular phone right now at 479-409-4407
and ask me. Not a single person on this newsgroup has had the courage
to call me, which proves that they are cowards and hypocrites.
I am seriously on the verge of killfileing every person on the
newsgroup except from Mr. Hill and Mr. Tilli. As far as I'm
concerned, Mr. Hill and Mr. Tilli are the only respectable members of
this newsgroup, and it's been months since I read a worthwhile post
from anyone else, so I am pondering killfiling everyone else and using
these newsgroups only to communicate with Mr. Hill about Amissville.
I do not have time to associate with cowards and hypocrites.
> > Those memories of playing Amissville until the sun came up are some of
> > the happiest memories of my life.
>
> *lol* That must be an exciting life.
It's a living.
C.M.
style contributed to the abstract surrealism of the game.
aph...@altavista.com (A.P. Hill) wrote in message news:<61188078.02052...@posting.google.com>...
> Awe man, the comedy is rich and overflowing. You know it's a good
> game when the writer still laughs at his own writing. I can't stop
> laughing. One second.
>
> okay. I'm better now. ahhhahalol a large dock, government funding.
> LOL
>
> That bit about Tim was not my idea, I just wrote it. I had a hard
> time writing what was being conveyed to me. I'm not trying to defend
> myself, I'm merely laughing with you.
>
> A.P. Hill
C.M.
> Mr. AP Hill, CM, and your other names, what exactly are you trying to
> prove with this prolonged and unneccessary hoax?
C.M.
> Whoops, sorry for posting again, I missed a few threads that I have to
> comment on...."I do not want to associate my style with Plotkin or
> Cadre, I've played their games, they suck."
>
> Associate me with Githyanki butt fungus but not with any zcode people,
> please.
Although I love your IF work and I admire out as an author, I disagree
with your Zcode versus TADS position. I used to play Inform games
almost exclusively, with a few TADS games here and there. Most of the
games I've really enjoyed (Photopia, Pick Up The Phone Booth and Die)
have been Inform games. Amissville is the first TADS game I've really
enjoyed.
But I don't think the language the game is written in really has any
impact on its quality. It's the author that makes the game good, not
the language. Good authors like you or Cadre will produce good games
regardless of the language.
dgr...@cs.csuabk.edu
> rangier...@hotmail.com (Ethyl Yuter) wrote in message news:<5fc0cf9a.02053...@posting.google.com>...
>> Mr. AP Hill, CM, and your other names, what exactly are you trying to
>> prove with this prolonged and unneccessary hoax?
> I am not Mr. A.P. Hill (although I am an admirer of him). If you do
> not believe me, call me on my cellular phone right now at 479-409-4407
> and ask me. Not a single person on this newsgroup has had the courage
> to call me, which proves that they are cowards and hypocrites.
How could phoning you up possibly verify that you're not Mr. A.P. Hill?
You've typed it and nobody believes you. Why should words coming out of
your mouth be any different? It seems clear to me that people think you
are Hill because of your constant praise bordering on hero-worship of him.
He's proudly trumpeting his game as though it was the greatest thing to
happen in the realm of computer gaming. Look at me. I maintain one of
the more popular IF interpreters. Do you see me crowing about it all the
time? No. I post the latest entries of the Changefile whenever I do an
update and maybe ask for advice now and then. You two, on the other hand,
constantly sing songs of praise of this Amissville game. If it's really
as wonderful as you two claim, just let its merits stand alone. Your
efforts are making both of you appear as loonies and Amissville as a lame
prank.
> I am seriously on the verge of killfileing every person on the
> newsgroup except from Mr. Hill and Mr. Tilli. As far as I'm
> concerned, Mr. Hill and Mr. Tilli are the only respectable members of
> this newsgroup, and it's been months since I read a worthwhile post
> from anyone else, so I am pondering killfiling everyone else and using
> these newsgroups only to communicate with Mr. Hill about Amissville.
> I do not have time to associate with cowards and hypocrites.
If you wish to killfile everyone but those two people, you should just
start a private mailing list. You've alienated most of the readers of
RAIF and RGIF with your drivel. Do you really expect people to listen to
you anymore?
--
David Griffith
dgr...@cs.csubak.edu
C.M.
Hill, but I guess I'm weak. I'm still reading a few here and there.
dgr...@cs.csuabk.edu wrote in message news:<ad71ok$39or9$1...@hades.csu.net>...
> How could phoning you up possibly verify that you're not Mr. A.P. Hill?
> You've typed it and nobody believes you.
I think everyone believes me except the trolls.
> Why should words coming out of
> your mouth be any different?
1) Because if someone lies vocally, you can generally tell they are
lying because of the wavering in their voice. Their voice will have a
"lying tone" to it.
2) Hopefully Mr. A.P. Hill will post his phone number as well, so
that you can see that we are (I assume) in different area codes, and
that we have different voices.
3) Why could I post my real name, address, and phone number here if I
was trying to pretend to be somebody I'm not? That would kind of
defeat the purpose of pretending to be someone else, wouldn't it?
4) I have posted my real name, phone number, address, contact
information, and personal details on this newsgroup. If I were Mr.
A.P. Hill, that would mean that HE had posted his read name, phone
number, address, etc. etc. on this newsgroup, which he could never
safely do, because he has too many enemies.
5) If you call me it will prove that I am a real person, and the
people who are accusing me of not being a real person will be proven
to be evil cowards.
This newsgroup has far too many evil cowards.
> It seems clear to me that people think you
> are Hill because of your constant praise bordering on hero-worship of him.
That's because he's one of the best IF authors in the world. I'd say
that he's a tie with Adam Cadre. However, I like Mr. Hill better
because he actually talks to me, wheras Mr. Cadre HAS IGNORED EVERY
BLOODY E-MAIL I'VE EVER BLOODY SENT HIM, THAT JERK, EVEN AFTER I
BOUGHT HIS BOOK AND PLAYED ALL HIS GAMES, THAT NUMMYNUTS JERKWAD. So
I like Mr. Hill better, even though I think Mr. Hill and Mr. Cadre are
tied when it comes to best IF author.
> He's proudly trumpeting his game as though it was the greatest thing to
> happen in the realm of computer gaming. Look at me. I maintain one of
> the more popular IF interpreters. Do you see me crowing about it all the
> time? No. I post the latest entries of the Changefile whenever I do an
> update and maybe ask for advice now and then. You two, on the other hand,
> constantly sing songs of praise of this Amissville game. If it's really
> as wonderful as you two claim, just let its merits stand alone.
When Amissville sweeps the 2002 XYZZY awards, YOU'LL SEE how well it
stands on its merits alone.
> Your
> efforts are making both of you appear as loonies and Amissville as a lame
> prank.
Maybe YOU should learn how to judge a game on its own merits instead
of on what people are saying about it. Maybe you should PLAY the
game. Unless you've played the game for tens of hours like I have,
you don't KNOW about the game.
> If you wish to killfile everyone but those two people, you should just
> start a private mailing list. You've alienated most of the readers of
> RAIF and RGIF with your drivel. Do you really expect people to listen to
> you anymore?
If I started a private mailing list, other fans of Amissville wouldn't
be able to read my messages, my FAQ/walkthrough, etc.
I do not WANT people who are not fans of Amissville to read my
messages. In fact, I'm looking into some law references to see if I
can legally forbid people who aren't fans of Amissville from reading
my messages. I am thinking about including a disclaimer at the head
of all my messages saying "TERMS OF USE: THIS MESSAGE IS ONLY
INTENDED FOR FANS OF AMISSVILLE, THE CREATORS OF AMISSVILLE, AND
OPEN-MINDED INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN FORMING THEIR OWN
OPINIONS ABOUT AMISSVILLE. IF YOU DO NOT FALL INTO ONE OF THESE
CATEGORIES YOU ARE LEGALLY FORBIDDEN FROM READING THIS MESSAGE. I OWN
FULL COPYRIGHT RIGHTS ON MY MESSAGES (exclusing "quoted text" written
by other people), AND ANY UNAUTHORIZED VIEWING, COPYING, OR
TRANSMITTING OF MY MESSAGES IS PROHIBITED BY LAW. BY READING THIS
MESSAGE YOU CONSENT TO THESE TERMS OF USE. IF YOU REFUSE THESE TERMS
OF USE, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO READ THIS MESSAGE."
I know this disclaimer sounds rather harsh, but I think it might be
the only way to keep non-Amissville people from reading my messages.
My only question is: is it legally enforceable? I haven't consulted a
lawyer yet, but I think it is.
Basically, in a perfect world I want to read messages only by
Amissville fans and I want only Amissville fans to read my messages.
Reading only messages by people I know and trust can help achieve the
former, and the above disclaimer can help achieve the latter.
Sometimes I will read messages by untrusted people just so I can make
sure they're not trying to defame Amissville or Mr. A.P. Hill.
Slander is illegal, and can be prosecuted.
dgr...@cs.csuabk.edu
In article <d021093e.02053...@posting.google.com> you wrote:
> I know I said I wouldn't be reading messages by anyone but Mr. A.P.
> Hill, but I guess I'm weak. I'm still reading a few here and there.
> dgr...@cs.csuabk.edu wrote in message news:<ad71ok$39or9$1...@hades.csu.net>...
>> How could phoning you up possibly verify that you're not Mr. A.P. Hill?
>> You've typed it and nobody believes you.
> I think everyone believes me except the trolls.
So people who are tired of you are trolls?
>> Why should words coming out of
>> your mouth be any different?
> 1) Because if someone lies vocally, you can generally tell they are
> lying because of the wavering in their voice. Their voice will have a
> "lying tone" to it.
Not everyone has the ability to detect these "lying tones".
> 2) Hopefully Mr. A.P. Hill will post his phone number as well, so
> that you can see that we are (I assume) in different area codes, and
> that we have different voices.
That can easily be set up and faked.
> 3) Why could I post my real name, address, and phone number here if I
> was trying to pretend to be somebody I'm not? That would kind of
> defeat the purpose of pretending to be someone else, wouldn't it?
Again, that's mostly meaningless. I'm not familiar with the town you're
from and neither are the majority of the readers here.
> 4) I have posted my real name, phone number, address, contact
> information, and personal details on this newsgroup. If I were Mr.
> A.P. Hill, that would mean that HE had posted his read name, phone
> number, address, etc. etc. on this newsgroup, which he could never
> safely do, because he has too many enemies.
Do I need to ask why Hill has so many enemies?
> 5) If you call me it will prove that I am a real person, and the
> people who are accusing me of not being a real person will be proven
> to be evil cowards.
> This newsgroup has far too many evil cowards.
You've defined "evil coward" as someone who's tired of your constant
hero-worship and has told you, kindly at first, to knock it off.
>> It seems clear to me that people think you
>> are Hill because of your constant praise bordering on hero-worship of him.
> That's because he's one of the best IF authors in the world. I'd say
> that he's a tie with Adam Cadre. However, I like Mr. Hill better
> because he actually talks to me, wheras Mr. Cadre HAS IGNORED EVERY
> BLOODY E-MAIL I'VE EVER BLOODY SENT HIM, THAT JERK, EVEN AFTER I
> BOUGHT HIS BOOK AND PLAYED ALL HIS GAMES, THAT NUMMYNUTS JERKWAD. So
> I like Mr. Hill better, even though I think Mr. Hill and Mr. Cadre are
> tied when it comes to best IF author.
Funny. I recall emailing Cadre a while ago asking him to quit doing
things that trigger exceptions and occasional fatal errors in Frotz. I
got a reply within a week. The exchange was polite and cordial. I don't
remember the exact circumstances, but I'll see if it's somewhere in my
archives if it pleases you. If you behaved towards him the same way you
behave in public here, I'm not surprised he ignores you.
>> He's proudly trumpeting his game as though it was the greatest thing to
>> happen in the realm of computer gaming. Look at me. I maintain one of
>> the more popular IF interpreters. Do you see me crowing about it all the
>> time? No. I post the latest entries of the Changefile whenever I do an
>> update and maybe ask for advice now and then. You two, on the other hand,
>> constantly sing songs of praise of this Amissville game. If it's really
>> as wonderful as you two claim, just let its merits stand alone.
> When Amissville sweeps the 2002 XYZZY awards, YOU'LL SEE how well it
> stands on its merits alone.
Then keep quiet until then.
>> Your
>> efforts are making both of you appear as loonies and Amissville as a lame
>> prank.
> Maybe YOU should learn how to judge a game on its own merits instead
> of on what people are saying about it. Maybe you should PLAY the
> game. Unless you've played the game for tens of hours like I have,
> you don't KNOW about the game.
Red herring. This about the ruckus you're causing on Usenet and not so
much Amissville.
>> If you wish to killfile everyone but those two people, you should just
>> start a private mailing list. You've alienated most of the readers of
>> RAIF and RGIF with your drivel. Do you really expect people to listen to
>> you anymore?
> If I started a private mailing list, other fans of Amissville wouldn't
> be able to read my messages, my FAQ/walkthrough, etc.
So? They can subscribe to the list.
> I do not WANT people who are not fans of Amissville to read my
> messages. In fact, I'm looking into some law references to see if I
> can legally forbid people who aren't fans of Amissville from reading
> my messages. I am thinking about including a disclaimer at the head
> of all my messages saying "TERMS OF USE: THIS MESSAGE IS ONLY
> INTENDED FOR FANS OF AMISSVILLE, THE CREATORS OF AMISSVILLE, AND
> OPEN-MINDED INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN FORMING THEIR OWN
> OPINIONS ABOUT AMISSVILLE. IF YOU DO NOT FALL INTO ONE OF THESE
> CATEGORIES YOU ARE LEGALLY FORBIDDEN FROM READING THIS MESSAGE. I OWN
> FULL COPYRIGHT RIGHTS ON MY MESSAGES (exclusing "quoted text" written
> by other people), AND ANY UNAUTHORIZED VIEWING, COPYING, OR
> TRANSMITTING OF MY MESSAGES IS PROHIBITED BY LAW. BY READING THIS
> MESSAGE YOU CONSENT TO THESE TERMS OF USE. IF YOU REFUSE THESE TERMS
> OF USE, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO READ THIS MESSAGE."
This is insane.
> I know this disclaimer sounds rather harsh, but I think it might be
> the only way to keep non-Amissville people from reading my messages.
> My only question is: is it legally enforceable? I haven't consulted a
> lawyer yet, but I think it is.
By posting something to Usenet, you implicitly give license to everyone to
read it if they wish.
> Basically, in a perfect world I want to read messages only by
> Amissville fans and I want only Amissville fans to read my messages.
> Reading only messages by people I know and trust can help achieve the
> former, and the above disclaimer can help achieve the latter.
> Sometimes I will read messages by untrusted people just so I can make
> sure they're not trying to defame Amissville or Mr. A.P. Hill.
> Slander is illegal, and can be prosecuted.
How have you two been slandered?
--
David Griffith
dgr...@cs.csubak.edu
C.M.
Is that really your phone number? What area code is that? I've
already posted my full phone number; if you post yours as well, then
people can call us both to prove that we're both real (distinct)
people.
I guess I could just try to brute-force the area code. I started out
on that task, but I decided it would take too long: I pay for cellular
airtime by the minute.
1-100-867-5309
Ring... Ring... Sorry, your call can not be completed as dialed.
1-101-867-5309
Ring... Ring... Sorry, your call can not be completed as dialed.
1-102-867-5309
Ring... Ring... Sorry, your call can not be completed as dialed.
I gave up about that time.
I guess I could find a list of area codes that are actually in use.
That'd probably shorten the search time quite a bit, but I'm sure I'd
get quite a few false-positives before I got the right one.
dgr...@cs.csuabk.edu
>> Call 867-5309 and ask for Ginny.
> Is that really your phone number? What area code is that? I've
> already posted my full phone number; if you post yours as well, then
> people can call us both to prove that we're both real (distinct)
> people.
> I guess I could just try to brute-force the area code. I started out
> on that task, but I decided it would take too long: I pay for cellular
> airtime by the minute.
[snip]
Does the name "Tommy Tutone" mean anything to you?
--
David Griffith
dgr...@cs.csubak.edu
tarage
>>messages. In fact, I'm looking into some law references to see if I
>>can legally forbid people who aren't fans of Amissville from reading
>>my messages. I am thinking about including a disclaimer at the head
>>of all my messages saying "TERMS OF USE: THIS MESSAGE IS ONLY
>>INTENDED FOR FANS OF AMISSVILLE, THE CREATORS OF AMISSVILLE, AND
>>OPEN-MINDED INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN FORMING THEIR OWN
>>OPINIONS ABOUT AMISSVILLE. IF YOU DO NOT FALL INTO ONE OF THESE
>>CATEGORIES YOU ARE LEGALLY FORBIDDEN FROM READING THIS MESSAGE. I OWN
>>FULL COPYRIGHT RIGHTS ON MY MESSAGES (exclusing "quoted text" written
>>by other people), AND ANY UNAUTHORIZED VIEWING, COPYING, OR
>>TRANSMITTING OF MY MESSAGES IS PROHIBITED BY LAW. BY READING THIS
>>MESSAGE YOU CONSENT TO THESE TERMS OF USE. IF YOU REFUSE THESE TERMS
>>OF USE, YOU DO NOT HAVE THE LEGAL RIGHT TO READ THIS MESSAGE."
>
C.M...why can't you start your own mailing list, if what you really
truly want is for only people who are fans of Amisville to read your
posts? There's plenty of places that will let you do that (maybe even
your ISP) for a nominal fee. People can subscribe and unsubscribe as
they see fit, and with you as the list nanny, you can control who stays
subscribed.
I submit to you and to everyone else here that if you continue to post
here then you are a liar. You don't really want only fans of Amisville
to read your posts. You derive satisfaction from annoying other people
and spamming up the newsgroups.
~Tarage
Andy M
news:d021093e.02053...@posting.google.com...
> Basically, in a perfect world I want to read messages only by
> Amissville fans and I want only Amissville fans to read my messages.
> Reading only messages by people I know and trust can help achieve the
> former, and the above disclaimer can help achieve the latter.
> Sometimes I will read messages by untrusted people just so I can make
> sure they're not trying to defame Amissville or Mr. A.P. Hill.
> Slander is illegal, and can be prosecuted.
Speech cannot be considered libelous if it is true. Since Amissville is, in
fact, a terrible game-like product, and Mr. Hill is, in fact, an extremely
irritating and self-deluded person, I don't see as how you have any basis to
prosecute people for saying so.
I _can_ say, though, that reading your fanciful post was much more
entertaining than actually engaging in Amissville.
--Andy
C.M.
> So people who are tired of you are trolls?
No. I can understand that rational people can have personal
differences. However, when a person is holding an extremely ILLOGICAL
viewpoint, in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary, then yes,
he is trolling. Since overwhelming evidence has been presented that I
am not Mr. A.P. Hill, anyone who thinks I am is, but definition,
either a troll or something worse.
> > 2) Hopefully Mr. A.P. Hill will post his phone number as well, so
> > that you can see that we are (I assume) in different area codes, and
> > that we have different voices.
>
> That can easily be set up and faked.
Now you're just being pedantic and childish. If you saw someone
raping and murdering your entire family, would you testify against
him/her in court, or would you say, "Well, I only SAW him/her, and
human visual perception can be easily faked"?
That's the attitude of the pseudo-scientist.
You: I demand proof!
Me: Here is proof!
You: That proof must be fake!
Me: I will provide other proof.
You: ALL proof can be faked!
Me: So you're rejecting the entire concept of truth and rationality
since anything in the universe could conceivably be faked!
You: Yes! I'm rejecting the entire concept of truth and rationality!
Me: *backs away slowly*
> Again, that's mostly meaningless. I'm not familiar with the town you're
> from and neither are the majority of the readers here.
Look me up in the directory. You'll see that I exist.
Next you're going to claim that I h4x0r3d the phone company and put in
a false listing for myself. Riiiiiiiight. I'm part of a grand
multi-national conspiracy that secretly controls all the world's
finance and telecommunications industries, ALL for the express purpose
of pulling off a simplistic Usenet hoax.
> Do I need to ask why Hill has so many enemies?
Because he decided to challenge the status-quo and design a game that
combined the storytelling elements of modern games like Photopia with
the classic adventure and puzzle elements of classic games like Zork,
all done without absorbing any pre-conceived notions of what's "Good
IF" and what isn't.
Thus, those who cling to dogma about what "Good IF" is will hate him.
> You've defined "evil coward" as someone who's tired of your constant
> hero-worship and has told you, kindly at first, to knock it off.
No, you can tell me to knock it off all you want and I won't hold it
against you, however, if you accuse me of being someone I am not, I
WILL hold that against you, because that's not an opinion, that's
libel.
> Funny. I recall emailing Cadre a while ago asking him to quit doing
> things that trigger exceptions and occasional fatal errors in Frotz. I
> got a reply within a week. The exchange was polite and cordial. I don't
> remember the exact circumstances, but I'll see if it's somewhere in my
> archives if it pleases you. If you behaved towards him the same way you
> behave in public here, I'm not surprised he ignores you.
I didn't. I adopt different personas from time to time and behave in
different ways based on how I wish to interact with my current
environment. My e-mails to him were very polite.
No proof is required; I don't question people's honesty as a matter of
habbit, and Mr. Cadre's e-mail behavior isn't really on-topic for this
discussion.
> > When Amissville sweeps the 2002 XYZZY awards, YOU'LL SEE how well it
> > stands on its merits alone.
>
> Then keep quiet until then.
I will continue to discuss the merits of Amissville with its creators
and my fellow fans of the game. Those who do not like the game are
encouraged to ignore threads with "Amissville" in the subject. I'm
sure it's possible to configure most newsreaders to do that.
> > If I started a private mailing list, other fans of Amissville wouldn't
> > be able to read my messages, my FAQ/walkthrough, etc.
>
> So? They can subscribe to the list.
Maybe I should demand that everyone who likes "Shade" should be
restricted to posting on a "Shade" mailing list, or everyone who likes
"Pick Up The Phone Booth And Die" should be restricted to posting on a
PUTPBAD mailing list?
Why should Amissville be ostracized, just because it's controversial?
> This is insane.
We live in an insane age.
> By posting something to Usenet, you implicitly give license to everyone to
> read it if they wish.
There's some dispute about that. Please see this document:
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
While I'm generally an abolitionist when it comes to Intellectual
Property, and an absoluteist when it comes to Free Speech, and I
generally oppose the idea of copyrights, trademarks, patents, etc.,
extreme newsgroup abuse sometimes makes my extreme Libertarian views
waver for a moment.
That disclaimer was written in jest, however, I really wish that
people who don't like seeing threads in an interactive-fiction
newsgroup about an interactive-fiction game would REFRAIN FROM READING
THOSE THREADS. That just seems like COMMON SENSE to me.
As George Washingon said, "I've found that common sense is not
terribly common."
> How have you two been slandered?
Stating an untruth about a person is slander or libel, depending on
the medium. Saying "George W Bush is actually a Russian spy" is
slader unless it was said with satirical or comedic intent. If you
say "Mr. Hill and Mr. McPherson are the same person," you have
committed slander against both of us, unless you wish to admit that
you're saying such things not as a statement of truth but rather for
comedic purposes.
If you ARE saying those things for comedic purposes, it'd be a great
relief for me to hear it, although it would mark you as rather
trollish. Better a troll than a criminal, I always say.
Thanks for reading.
Have a nice day.
C.M.
> Speech cannot be considered libelous if it is true. Since Amissville is, in
> fact, a terrible game-like product, and Mr. Hill is, in fact, an extremely
> irritating and self-deluded person, I don't see as how you have any basis to
> prosecute people for saying so.
You didn't even read my post, and your statement is wrong. While it's
true that it's not libel to defame Amissville, that's NOT because it's
true, but because it's an OPINION, which is neither true nor false. I
would consider that opinion to be extremely wrongheaded, but that's
just MY opinion.
HOWEVER, it IS libel to write untrue things about a person. It's not
libel to say that Mr. Hill is irritating or self-deluded, because,
once again, those are both OPINIONS. It IS libel to say that Mr. Hill
and myself are the same person, because that is not true.
Although I'm extremely flattered that someone would think highly
enough of me to associate me with the esteemed Mr. A.P. Hill, I worry
that Mr. Hill's reputation as an Information Technology Professional
may be damaged by these baseless accusations against him.
My concern is that someday Mr. A.P. Hill may be searching for a job,
and potential employers will do background research on him using
Google Groups. The employer may see these accusations of posting to
Usenet pretending to be multiple people (I have no idea if Mr. Hill
has pretended to be anyone else on this newsgroup; I consider him to
be a moral person and doubt he'd do such a thing, but I know for SURE
that he isn't me) and decide not to hire him as a result.
If this happened, you'd be in an EXTREMELY actionable position, and
Mr. Hill would be fully entitled to sue you for damages (namely, the
money he would have earned had he gotten the job) as a result of your
libel.
If this happens, maybe in court you'll tell Mr. Hill's lawyer, "But
maybe they really WERE the same person." Then, guess who will stand
up from the audience? ME! And Mr. Hill's lawyer will call me up as
evidence and have me stand next to Mr. Hill, and he will ask, "How
many people do you see here? Let me remind you that you are under
oath!"
Yes, that's right. If Mr. Hill decides to persue legal action against
any of you reading this newsgroup because of the lies you've told
about him, I will be in the courtroom to defend him and prove that
what you say is false.
So, don't mess with THE LAW, kid. Don't mess with TRUTH and JUSTICE.
JUSTICE always WINS over EVIL.
> I _can_ say, though, that reading your fanciful post was much more
> entertaining than actually engaging in Amissville.
Thank you; that was my intent. I must say, it's been quite amusing to
me as well, but not nearly as much fun as playing Amissville, the most
groundbreaking piece of Interative Fiction since Colossal Cave.
> --Andy
The other person I've been debating with lately is ALSO named Andy.
Is this a COINCIDENCE, or are YOU the person who is ACTUALLY posting
under multiple identities. You'd better fess up, I'm ON TO YOU.
C.M.
the first time and I'm not sure if it went through.
dgr...@cs.csuabk.edu wrote in message news:<ad93mj$39r0l$1...@hades.csu.net>...
> Does the name "Tommy Tutone" mean anything to you?
When I first read your message, I admit, it didn't.
I did a Google search and learned that Tommy Tutone was an 80's
musician, then I discovered that he was the author of the old song
"867-5309", and I went back to read the number in Mr. Hill's post...
Well, what can I say? A.P. Hill tricked me! I've been trolled. I've
been had. I've been outwitted, beguiled, outsmarted, duped, and
confused. He got me. IHBT. IHL. HAND. Yes, I *have* heard the
song before. However, I completely didn't notice the symbolism until
you pointed it out to me. Yes, I did actually try to call the number.
However, I'm glad to say that it was Mr. A.P. Hill who tricked me. To
be tricked by a genius like Mr. Hill is NO SHAME at all. I consider
it an honor. Just like losing a golf game against Tiger Woods
wouldn't be a shame. Just the chance to play golf against Tiger Woods
would be an honor in itself! So I'm not chastened that Mr. Hill
fooled me, but proud that I was outwitted by the master!
Good show, Mr. Hill: you trolled me, hook, line and sinker! Good
show!
C.M.
feedback, even those people with whom I disagree.
tarage <tar...@NOSPAM.bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<3CF8172E...@NOSPAM.bellsouth.net>...
> C.M...why can't you start your own mailing list, if what you really
> truly want is for only people who are fans of Amisville to read your
> posts?
Because I'd prefer more of a soft-security approach wherein those
people who don't like Amissville would simply avoid reading the
Amissville messages in this newsgroup due to lack of interest in them.
This would seem to be the logical thing for these people to do!
It seems self-defeating to read messages about a game you don't like,
and then berate the people who talk about the game? Why did you
decide to read the thread if it was about a game you have no interest
in discussing?
Perhaps instead of insulting the people who are talking about on-topic
things which you have no interest in, it would be better to restrict
yourself to reading about things that you DO have an interest in.
Is this an illogical position?
> There's plenty of places that will let you do that (maybe even
> your ISP) for a nominal fee. People can subscribe and unsubscribe as
> they see fit, and with you as the list nanny, you can control who stays
> subscribed.
I have experience setting up mailing lists using GNU's mailman
software (and I've briefly dabbled with other mailing list software as
well), and at various times I've administered several mailing lists
from Unix boxens I have access to.
However, you're missing four key points:
1. If I created an Amissville mailing list, only Amissville fans who
subscribed to the mailing list would be able to read the messages sent
there. Not all Amissville fans on this newsgroup would also be on the
mailing list, thus, some of the Amissville fans would be missing out.
2. If Amissville were not talked about on the newsgroup, how would
new Amissville fans find out about the mailing list??
3. Where is the "Photopia" mailing list, the "Shade" mailing list,
the "Tapestry" mailing list, or the "Zork 3" mailing list? Why do you
only consider Amissville to be "worthy" of such a list?
4. You are not a net cop who can arbitrarily allow the discussion of
certain games or forbid the discussion of others.
> I submit to you and to everyone else here that if you continue to post
> here then you are a liar.
And that's your opinion, which you're entitled to, but a rational
person would disagree with you.
> You don't really want only fans of Amisville
> to read your posts.
The issue isn't whether or not I want non-fans of Amissville to read
my posts, the question is, why do THEY want to read my posts?
Obviously they want to read my posts, or else they wouldn't read them.
Since it's rather difficult to reply to a message without reading it,
this means that anyone who replies to my posts wants to read my posts.
So if anyone tells me that they do not want to read my posts, I submit
that they are a liar, since in order to respond to my posts they had
to make the voluntary decision to read them.
My posts are not off-topic, so if you happen to not appreciate
discussing this particular INTERACTIVE FICTION game, perhaps you
should trouble yourself to add a filter to your newsreader that
filters out any message with "Amissville" in the text.
Of course, if you DO filter out any article which contains the string
"Amissville", you'll miss the announcement of the 2002 XYZZY awards,
since I'm sure it'll contain the word "Amissville" SEVERAL times!
Andy M
to
> > read it if they wish.
>
> There's some dispute about that. Please see this document:
>
> http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
Just to clear things up for those who may not be aware that CM doesn't know
a lot about civil law, there is no dispute on this point. You post it to
Usenet, everyone gets to read it, regardless of what sorts of pseudo-legal
warnings you slather on it. What you cannot do is copy or distribute it,
and even then it only rises to the level of copyright infringement under
certain circumstances.
--Andy
Andy M
> My concern is that someday Mr. A.P. Hill may be searching for a job,
> and potential employers will do background research on him using
> Google Groups. The employer may see these accusations of posting to
> Usenet pretending to be multiple people (I have no idea if Mr. Hill
> has pretended to be anyone else on this newsgroup; I consider him to
> be a moral person and doubt he'd do such a thing, but I know for SURE
> that he isn't me) and decide not to hire him as a result.
I'd be more concerned they'd find out about Amissville. Seriously.
> If this happened, you'd be in an EXTREMELY actionable position, and
> Mr. Hill would be fully entitled to sue you for damages (namely, the
> money he would have earned had he gotten the job) as a result of your
> libel.
If I'm sued for libel, I'll countersue for emotional distress from playing
Amissville. The flashbacks are causing me to lose sleep.
--Andy
Tilli
Wow, the talk of Amissville is alive and well. I appreciate you
taking up arms for Amissville CM, but I'm sure you agree, it can stand
on it's own feet. It shines as a beacon of hope for all amatuer IF
writers out there.
Sadly though, I will not be submitting the work to any competition. I
believe you have to submit the game under tight criterias. We took a
moment to read the rules sometime ago before Amissville was released
and voted against it. We do, though, intend to release a game within
competition rules, but probably not until 2003. Our next installment
of IF will be another free epic for the masses. We have several
scripts laying about, all of which are equally funny as Amissville. I
think Lomax has mentioned that we will not be solicitating the game on
RAIF, we feel we have been successful in introducing ourselves with
the release of Amissville. A simple one post release announcement
will be made, (good news for everyone).
It would be safe to assume that every single IF person is aware of the
name Santoonie Corporation in some form or another. Though Amissville
was a painful experience for most, it was necessary to biuld a solid
foundation for what we hope will become a beneficial IF gaming
supplier in Santoonie Corp. for years to come.
I understand the recent volume of Amissville discussion is a direct
result of the anticipation of the release of Act II. I have already
started working on the next IF wonder, and will probably not be able
to keep up-to-date on the goings on with Act II. In fact Act II was
finished long ago, but a series of bugs and programming areas actually
locked the entrance to Act II, as you well know.
AP contacted me for additional Amissville information that could
possibly be included and the end of the game besides what was already
inputted. I dug around and found some very hilarious ICQ notes during
the Amissville indoctrination periods last year, between myself, the
Baron of Comedy, and others that I think would be highly interesting.
Particularly the argueing and disagreements. LOL. You don't realize
it from your perspective, but Amissville was a true story that spanned
a whopping six year ordeal involving ten different adventures between
thirteen different adventurers, all of which have their own ideas on
what actually happened in Amissville. The Baron of Comedy is the only
person to have participated in all ten events, therefore was declared
official historian. His memory is unbelievable. Too many times we
submitted information to AP for coding, and he would ICQ: "WRONG!!!
THAT'S ALL WRONG!!" lol. Anyway...
I hope you enjoy Act II of Amissville, Return to Amissville 2002 in
the coming weeks.
Tilli
CEO, Santoonie Corporation
Andy M
news:fe9905ce.02060...@posting.google.com...
> Though Amissville
> was a painful experience for most, it was necessary to biuld a solid
> foundation for what we hope will become a beneficial IF gaming
> supplier in Santoonie Corp. for years to come.
Look, it takes all the fun out of it when you do it for us.
--Andy
Henry Jones
Norton Zenger
>aph...@altavista.com (A.P. Hill) wrote in message news:<61188078.02053...@posting.google.com>...
>> Call 867-5309 and ask for Ginny.
>
>Is that really your phone number? What area code is that? I've
>already posted my full phone number; if you post yours as well, then
>people can call us both to prove that we're both real (distinct)
>people.
>
>I guess I could just try to brute-force the area code. I started out
>on that task, but I decided it would take too long: I pay for cellular
>airtime by the minute.
>
>1-100-867-5309
>Ring... Ring... Sorry, your call can not be completed as dialed.
>
>1-101-867-5309
>Ring... Ring... Sorry, your call can not be completed as dialed.
>
>1-102-867-5309
>Ring... Ring... Sorry, your call can not be completed as dialed.
>
>I gave up about that time.
Area codes in the US can't begin with the number 1. That's reserved for
international dialing. Boy, are you dumb.
Norton Zenger
>However, you're missing four key points:
>
>1. If I created an Amissville mailing list, only Amissville fans who
>subscribed to the mailing list would be able to read the messages sent
>there. Not all Amissville fans on this newsgroup would also be on the
>mailing list, thus, some of the Amissville fans would be missing out.
Right. Is there anybody here who likes Amissville but _wouldn't_ subscribe to
an Amissville mailing list? Anybody?
>2. If Amissville were not talked about on the newsgroup, how would
>new Amissville fans find out about the mailing list??
Put up a website to promote the list. The web is far more popular than Usenet
anyway.
>3. Where is the "Photopia" mailing list, the "Shade" mailing list,
>the "Tapestry" mailing list, or the "Zork 3" mailing list? Why do you
>only consider Amissville to be "worthy" of such a list?
The authors of those esteemed works graciously permit even people who don't
like said games to read posts about them.
>> I submit to you and to everyone else here that if you continue to post
>> here then you are a liar.
>
>And that's your opinion, which you're entitled to, but a rational
>person would disagree with you.
And you expect Usenet to be rational?
Norton Zenger
>I found Amissville to be very well written. The unorthodox writing
>style contributed to the abstract surrealism of the game.
I agree! Also, the rhythmic devices seemed to counterpoint the surrealism of
the underlying metaphor of the humanity of the author's compassionate soul,
which contrives through the medium of IF to sublimate this, transcend that,
and come to terms with the fundamental dichotomies of the other, and one is
left with a profound and vivid insight into whatever it was the game was
about!
dgr...@cs.csuabk.edu
>> So people who are tired of you are trolls?
> No. I can understand that rational people can have personal
> differences. However, when a person is holding an extremely ILLOGICAL
> viewpoint, in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary, then yes,
> he is trolling. Since overwhelming evidence has been presented that I
> am not Mr. A.P. Hill, anyone who thinks I am is, but definition,
> either a troll or something worse.
So, it's illogical to think your actions stink?
>> > 2) Hopefully Mr. A.P. Hill will post his phone number as well, so
>> > that you can see that we are (I assume) in different area codes, and
>> > that we have different voices.
>>
>> That can easily be set up and faked.
> Now you're just being pedantic and childish. If you saw someone
> raping and murdering your entire family, would you testify against
> him/her in court, or would you say, "Well, I only SAW him/her, and
> human visual perception can be easily faked"?
Framing someone for a crime is rather difficult. Faking phone number
borders on trivial.
>> Again, that's mostly meaningless. I'm not familiar with the town you're
>> from and neither are the majority of the readers here.
> Look me up in the directory. You'll see that I exist.
> Next you're going to claim that I h4x0r3d the phone company and put in
> a false listing for myself. Riiiiiiiight. I'm part of a grand
> multi-national conspiracy that secretly controls all the world's
> finance and telecommunications industries, ALL for the express purpose
> of pulling off a simplistic Usenet hoax.
Phreakery really isn't required; just some creative use of forwarding.
Besides, if you wanted to resort to phreaking to do this, it's not like
breaking into Fort Knox.
>> Do I need to ask why Hill has so many enemies?
> Because he decided to challenge the status-quo and design a game that
> combined the storytelling elements of modern games like Photopia with
> the classic adventure and puzzle elements of classic games like Zork,
> all done without absorbing any pre-conceived notions of what's "Good
> IF" and what isn't.
When I announced that I was considering converting Frotz to use Glk for
I/O, I was deluged with email pleading and demanding that I not do so for
various reasons. I haven't the slightest impression that any of these
people hate me because of that.
> Thus, those who cling to dogma about what "Good IF" is will hate him.
That's ridiculous. Weird things are done with IF all the time. Usually
the culprit gets told "your insane" or "that's sick" and life moves on.
Nobody forms grudges over that except in your own mind.
>> You've defined "evil coward" as someone who's tired of your constant
>> hero-worship and has told you, kindly at first, to knock it off.
> No, you can tell me to knock it off all you want and I won't hold it
> against you, however, if you accuse me of being someone I am not, I
> WILL hold that against you, because that's not an opinion, that's
> libel.
It's just that your behavior is mighty suspicious. That's why people
think a sock-puppet is involved somewhere.
> I didn't. I adopt different personas from time to time and behave in
> different ways based on how I wish to interact with my current
> environment. My e-mails to him were very polite.
> No proof is required; I don't question people's honesty as a matter of
> habbit, and Mr. Cadre's e-mail behavior isn't really on-topic for this
> discussion.
Why did you bring him up, then?
>> > When Amissville sweeps the 2002 XYZZY awards, YOU'LL SEE how well it
>> > stands on its merits alone.
>>
>> Then keep quiet until then.
> I will continue to discuss the merits of Amissville with its creators
> and my fellow fans of the game. Those who do not like the game are
> encouraged to ignore threads with "Amissville" in the subject. I'm
> sure it's possible to configure most newsreaders to do that.
Quite so. It's also quite possible to completely ignore you, which I will
be doing shortly. You've proven yourself to be little more than a loony.
>> > If I started a private mailing list, other fans of Amissville wouldn't
>> > be able to read my messages, my FAQ/walkthrough, etc.
>>
>> So? They can subscribe to the list.
> Maybe I should demand that everyone who likes "Shade" should be
> restricted to posting on a "Shade" mailing list, or everyone who likes
> "Pick Up The Phone Booth And Die" should be restricted to posting on a
> PUTPBAD mailing list?
> Why should Amissville be ostracized, just because it's controversial?
You're missing the point.
>> This is insane.
> We live in an insane age.
>> By posting something to Usenet, you implicitly give license to everyone to
>> read it if they wish.
> There's some dispute about that. Please see this document:
> http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
[snip general hostility towards copyright law, but abiding by it just the
same]
> As George Washingon said, "I've found that common sense is not
> terribly common."
That's nice, but quite unenforcable.
>> How have you two been slandered?
> Stating an untruth about a person is slander or libel, depending on
> the medium. Saying "George W Bush is actually a Russian spy" is
> slader unless it was said with satirical or comedic intent. If you
> say "Mr. Hill and Mr. McPherson are the same person," you have
> committed slander against both of us, unless you wish to admit that
> you're saying such things not as a statement of truth but rather for
> comedic purposes.
> If you ARE saying those things for comedic purposes, it'd be a great
> relief for me to hear it, although it would mark you as rather
> trollish. Better a troll than a criminal, I always say.
Either you have a hero-worship problem or you are Mr. Hill. No joke.
Sue me.
--
David Griffith
dgr...@cs.csubak.edu
C.M.
lies.
dgr...@cs.csuabk.edu wrote in message news:<adbej4$3a695$1...@hades.csu.net>...
> It's just that your behavior is mighty suspicious. That's why people
> think a sock-puppet is involved somewhere.
Then why has not a single coward had the courage to telephone me and
find out the truth, even after I posted my real-life contact
information here, which not a single other coward in this newsgroup
has had the courage to do?
I'm a real person with a real identity and a real history. I show up
on Google and you can probably find out quite about about me with a
little bit of Googlestalking.
I am a PUBLISHED AUTHOR at one of the Internet's most popular and
reliable news-media outlets, Adequacy.Org:
http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/8/31/42018/3684
http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/9/1/232418/6226
That's my two-piece series of Global Warming. I suppose I got two
articles published by a major news outlet solely for the purpose of
pretending to be someone else on Usenet a year later, or do you think
just MAYBE I MIGHT be a real person?
Adequacy.Org is the Internet's premiere site for getting the REAL news
that the mainstream media DOES NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW. Adequacy is
best-known for its wildly-famous story "Is Your Son A Computer
Hacker?":
http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/12/2/42056/2147
That story shattered world records by becoming the most-commented
weblog story in history (it's received over 10,000 comments so far,
but the editors had to delete about half of them due to limited server
bandwidth) after being featured on TechTV, mentioned in WIRED
magazine, and being discussed in 2600, a quarterly computer-hacking
magazine.
Although I don't know the author of that story personally, I do know
most of the Adequacy editors personally, and I think that my
association with such famous and reputable individuals would PROVE
CONCLUSIVELY that I'm not the type of person who would engage in any
sort of USENET HOAXERY.
I'm also an editor at the popular alternative-lifestyle weblog
http://www.trollaxor.com/, home of "The Turd Report" (who is another
CLOSE PERSONAL FRIEND of mine, in the sense that I talked to him on
Slashdot one time about a year ago, but I was posting AC at the time,
so he probably doesn't remember me).
You can go ahead and insult me if you want, but if you do, you'll be
insulting a PUBLISHED AUTHOR. What you're saying is as illogical as
saying that JonKatz isn't a real person. Well, he probably isn't, so
that's a bad example. But you get the idea.
> So, it's illogical to think your actions stink?
No, that's an opinion.
However, saying that Mr. Hill and I are the same person isn't an
opinion, it's a statement of (untrue) fact, and thus is libelous and
actionable.
> Phreakery really isn't required; just some creative use of forwarding.
> Besides, if you wanted to resort to phreaking to do this, it's not like
> breaking into Fort Knox.
Whatever happened to Occam's Razor? Which of these is simpler to
believe.
1. Two people are two different people with distinct physical bodies
and identities.
2. Two people are actually one person willing to spends hundreds of
hours setting up false identities and engaging in Federal felonies as
part of an incredibly complex cover-up for a simple Usenet hoax.
But YOUR logic, I could insist that you and those two "Andy" people
who were yelling at me MUST be all the SAME PERSON, because any
evidence to the contrary could be faked.
So, I challenge you, prove to me that you are NOT those "Andy" people.
And remember, ALL proof can be faked, so I will accept NO PROOF.
Therefore, you and those two Andy people are ALL the same person.
THIS is the illogical world in which you live.
> When I announced that I was considering converting Frotz to use Glk for
> I/O, I was deluged with email pleading and demanding that I not do so for
> various reasons. I haven't the slightest impression that any of these
> people hate me because of that.
I'm leaning in that direction, now that I've heard about it. It
doesn't really relate to the topic at hand, though.
> That's ridiculous. Weird things are done with IF all the time. Usually
> the culprit gets told "your insane" or "that's sick" and life moves on.
> Nobody forms grudges over that except in your own mind.
Then why is A.P. Hill being systematically harassed, stalked (I'm
talking about the BAD stalkers who don't like him, not the GOOD
stalkers like me), and insulted for bucking the IF traditions and
releasing an innovative game? Why are people so threatened?
> > No proof is required; I don't question people's honesty as a matter of
> > habbit, and Mr. Cadre's e-mail behavior isn't really on-topic for this
> > discussion.
>
> Why did you bring him up, then?
I was just mentioning, as a side note, why Mr. Hill is my favorite IF
author, and why Mr. Cadre is my second-favorite. The reason I gave
was that Mr. Hill pays attention to me and Mr. Cadre ignores me. YOUR
response was an off-topic "Mr. Cadre doesn't ignore ME." This is
what's known as a LOGICAL FALLACY.
It's like a woman saying, "Well, Mike Tyson never raped ME, so Mike
Tyson must never have raped ANYBODY."
IT'S JUST NOT RATIONAL !!!!!!!
> > I will continue to discuss the merits of Amissville with its creators
> > and my fellow fans of the game. Those who do not like the game are
> > encouraged to ignore threads with "Amissville" in the subject. I'm
> > sure it's possible to configure most newsreaders to do that.
>
> Quite so. It's also quite possible to completely ignore you, which I will
> be doing shortly. You've proven yourself to be little more than a loony.
It would be to my great relief to not have to respond to you anymore.
I really wish you would stop reading my messages. It wastes my
valuable time having to respond to you, time that could be better
spent playing AMISSVILLE.
> > Maybe I should demand that everyone who likes "Shade" should be
> > restricted to posting on a "Shade" mailing list, or everyone who likes
> > "Pick Up The Phone Booth And Die" should be restricted to posting on a
> > PUTPBAD mailing list?
>
> > Why should Amissville be ostracized, just because it's controversial?
>
> You're missing the point.
So tell me what the point is, OH WISE ONE? I think the point is that
you're being HYPOCRITICAL like a HYPOcrite.
> Either you have a hero-worship problem or you are Mr. Hill. No joke.
I've proved conclusively that I'm not Mr. Hill, and not a SINGLE
person who understands Formal Logic has accused me of being Mr. Hill.
I have a hero-worship problem, then? DID I EVER DENY THAT? No! So
why are you wasting your breath?
I still suspect you're just trolling me.
> Sue me.
I don't have any reason to sue you, because you've done no financial
damage to me, but Mr. Hill is an EXTREMELY good position to sue you,
because you have defamed his reputation as a professional game
designer by accusing him of illicit USENET activity.
And if he sues you, I'll be there in the courtroom as a witness, just
to watch you stutter and stammer your way into a huge ruling against
you. So if Mr. Hill decides to sue you, I'll see you in court.
Until then, *PLONK*.
(BTW, since I'm using Google and don't have a real killfile, I'm
having to do the killfiling in my mind, and as you can see, it's not
working terribly well.)
C.M.
I know Amissville can stand for itself, but when I hear people making
baseless accusations against Mr. A.P. Hill, it just chaps my knickers!
In-line replies follow.
ti...@flashmail.com (Tilli) wrote in message news:<fe9905ce.02060...@posting.google.com>...
> We do, though, intend to release a game within
> competition rules, but probably not until 2003.
I'm greatly looking forward to it!
> Our next installment
> of IF will be another free epic for the masses.
I'm looking forward to everything you have in store!
I really want to see an Amissville sequel or prequel, though. Maybe
Act II will answer all my questions, but I get the feeling there'll
always be more of the story to tell!!!
> We have several
> scripts laying about, all of which are equally funny as Amissville. I
> think Lomax has mentioned that we will not be solicitating the game on
> RAIF, we feel we have been successful in introducing ourselves with
> the release of Amissville.
Please keep me informed about everything you do!
My ICQ UIN is 10262746, and I'm cmcpher476 on AIM, although I very
rarely log on to AIM. I'm on ICQ 24 hours a day, though, so feel free
to say hello to me!
> I dug around and found some very hilarious ICQ notes during
> the Amissville indoctrination periods last year, between myself, the
> Baron of Comedy, and others that I think would be highly interesting.
Wow, the Baron is real also?? This just just TOO cool.
I want to know all the "behind the scenes" stuff about Amissville.
Maybe you could release these ICQ logs as part of a "making of
Amissville" feature.
Once I finish the game (so that I can safely read spoilers), I want to
know absolutely EVERYTHING about the game, the making of the game, the
characters, the people the characters were based on, and everyone else
involved.
This material is just SO cool.
> Particularly the argueing and disagreements. LOL. You don't realize
> it from your perspective, but Amissville was a true story that spanned
> a whopping six year ordeal involving ten different adventures between
> thirteen different adventurers, all of which have their own ideas on
> what actually happened in Amissville.
I want to know EVERYTHING.
Can I move to Virginia and become part of your elite gang of
adventurers?
Was my "In defense of Amissville" analysis even close to what you had
in mind when creating the game?
> The Baron of Comedy is the only
> person to have participated in all ten events, therefore was declared
> official historian. His memory is unbelievable. Too many times we
> submitted information to AP for coding, and he would ICQ: "WRONG!!!
> THAT'S ALL WRONG!!" lol. Anyway...
I wish I were part of this hidden world behind the secret creation of
Amissville.
I hate being left out in the cold.
I'm always left out in the cold.
Alone.
I'm so alone.
So alone.
Alone.
> I hope you enjoy Act II of Amissville, Return to Amissville 2002 in
> the coming weeks.
I will. But it won't take away the loneliness eating away at my very
core. No game could do that. Although Amissville comes close.
C.M.
> Right. Is there anybody here who likes Amissville but _wouldn't_ subscribe to
> an Amissville mailing list? Anybody?
If I did things YOUR way, then as new people discover Amissville,
they'd come to the newsgroup hoping to talk about it or read about it,
and due to your CENSORNAZI policies, they wouldn't know about the
mailing list, because talking about the mailing list would be ILLEGAL
under your system.
THERE IS NO MAILING LIST FOR PHOTOPIA. PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO DISCUSS
PHOTOPIA ON THIS NEWSGROUP.
THERE IS NO MAILING LIST FOR SHADE. PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO DISCUSS
SHADE ON THIS NEWSGROUP.
THERE IS NO MAILING LIST FOR TAPESTRY. PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO DISCUSS
TAPESTRY ON THIS NEWSGROUP.
THERE IS NO MAILING LIST FOR ZORK. PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO DISCUSS ZORK
ON THIS NEWSGROUP.
Learn some logic, CENSORNAZI.
> Put up a website to promote the list. The web is far more popular than Usenet
> anyway.
Non-sequitur. Television is more popular than books in the United
States, but "Golden Girls" is not more popular than The Bible.
This is the DE-FACTO community for discussing interactive fiction, so
this is the place where an interactive fiction game like Amissville
SHOULD BE DISCUSSED.
Do you understand LOGIC? Or NO?
> The authors of those esteemed works graciously permit even people who don't
> like said games to read posts about them.
Mr. A.P. Hill has never issued an official policy regarding reading
about or talking about Amissville on this newsgroup.
> And you expect Usenet to be rational?
Not when I see your name in the message headers, obviously.
C.M.
> I agree! Also, the rhythmic devices seemed to counterpoint the surrealism of
> the underlying metaphor of the humanity of the author's compassionate soul,
> which contrives through the medium of IF to sublimate this, transcend that,
> and come to terms with the fundamental dichotomies of the other, and one is
> left with a profound and vivid insight into whatever it was the game was
> about!
Finally someone understands Amissville.
I'm glad you managed to figure it out.
Andy M
Likewise.
--Andy
EPerson
The Vogons were smarter.
Eric Schmidt
------------
>x me
You have Xed yourself. Do you want to restore, restart, quit or read
the disclaimer?
>disclaimer
DISCLAIMER: I do not speak for Frodo's Frill Factory. I do not speak
for your neighbor. Unless you happen to be my neighbor.
Trent
"C.M." <sp...@bcm-hog.org> wrote in message
> Then why has not a single coward had the courage to telephone me and
> find out the truth, even after I posted my real-life contact
> information here, which not a single other coward in this newsgroup
> has had the courage to do?
This is not true. I called you yesterday sometime around 7:30 pm EST. I
left a message since you were not in. I have recieved no response. You
should check your messages before broadly asserting that everyone here is a
coward.
Also, the lack of waivering in your voice message has assured me that
everthing you have ever typed was true.
Atomicmoog
game you appear to like. You said you would a while back, but now
appear to have created a few thousand more since. It really is getting
quite annoying.
Cheers.
L. Ross Raszewski
>Norton Zenger <wrong...@ekilat.com> wrote in message
news:<924ifu44etei31hgv...@4ax.com>...
>THERE IS NO MAILING LIST FOR PHOTOPIA. PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO DISCUSS
>PHOTOPIA ON THIS NEWSGROUP.
>
>THERE IS NO MAILING LIST FOR SHADE. PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO DISCUSS
>SHADE ON THIS NEWSGROUP.
>
>THERE IS NO MAILING LIST FOR TAPESTRY. PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO DISCUSS
>TAPESTRY ON THIS NEWSGROUP.
>
>THERE IS NO MAILING LIST FOR ZORK. PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO DISCUSS ZORK
>ON THIS NEWSGROUP.
>
>Learn some logic, CENSORNAZI.
False all around. You have consistently insisted on cross-positng to
rec.arts.int-fiction. Discussion of specific games, beyiond their
applicability to programing techniques, will earn you a good stern
yelling at.
But the kernel of truth underlying this is "people are allowed to
discuss". *people*. Plural. No one but you wants to discuss
amissvile.
Morkitar
nyhedsmeddelelse:d021093e.02060...@posting.google.com...
> I am a PUBLISHED AUTHOR at one of the Internet's most popular and
> reliable news-media outlets, Adequacy.Org:
>
> http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/8/31/42018/3684
> http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/9/1/232418/6226
> You can go ahead and insult me if you want, but if you do, you'll be
> insulting a PUBLISHED AUTHOR. What you're saying is as illogical as
> saying that JonKatz isn't a real person. Well, he probably isn't, so
> that's a bad example. But you get the idea.
Why exactly is it that your status as a 'published writer' should protect
you from being insulted... especially considering the nonsense in the
articles you refer?
C. Michael James
>
> Now you're just being pedantic and childish. If you saw someone
> raping and murdering your entire family, would you testify against
> him/her in court, or would you say, "Well, I only SAW him/her, and
> human visual perception can be easily faked"?
>
> That's the attitude of the pseudo-scientist.
>
> You: I demand proof!
> Me: Here is proof!
> You: That proof must be fake!
> Me: I will provide other proof.
> You: ALL proof can be faked!
> Me: So you're rejecting the entire concept of truth and rationality
> since anything in the universe could conceivably be faked!
> You: Yes! I'm rejecting the entire concept of truth and rationality!
> Me: *backs away slowly*
>
Actually, its the attitude of quite a lot of sensible people. It's
actually, in the true scientific sense impossible to 'prove' anything.
All science does is provide us with workable theories.
The problem as the philosopher Kierkgaard asserts, is that from the
outset of a 叢roof', one presupposes the existence of the thing one is
trying to prove exists.
Without this presupposition, Kierkgaard states that he would not even
begin to try and develop such a proof. But unfortunately, he
maintains, if one uses such a presupposition, all one would do would
be to develop the content of a conception.
Thus, one always reasons from existence, rather than toward it.
Further, Kierkgaard uses the example of a law-court to strengthen his
point. The law court does not prove that a criminal exists, rather
that the accused, whose existence is given, is a criminal through use
of evidence. Therefore, criminality is separate from existence.
Through the demonstration of evidence, the criminality of the accused
is proved, but not his existence.
It is impossible, says Kierkgaard, to deduce existence from deed. He
uses Napoleon as an example. Napoleon's existence does explain his
deeds, but his deeds are not proof of his existence. Unless, of
course, one presupposes that the 蘇e' that 蘇is' refers to, already
has existence.
Kierkgaard finds it possible that someone else may have performed the
exact same deeds as Napoleon in every way. Therefore, Napoleon is not
necessary for these deeds to be performed and so they cannot be used
to infer Napoleon's existence, only the existence of a great general.
So, its entirely possible that someone else could write down exactly
what you, as 'CM' have, post the exact same phone number etc etc.
Therefore, that in itself is not proof. Given your praise of AP Hill
and your behaviour, it is perfectly reasonable to assume you are a
troll. We may, of course be mistaken, but to our perceptions, the
weight of evidence points that way.
If you can prove you are justified in calling those on the newsgroup
hypocrites to your own satisfaction, then you must therefore accept
that people are allowed to doubt the truth of the evidence you
present. But your proof is not regarded as proof by the majority of
this newsgroup, and therefore, your staements are without backup to
the rest of us.
You've already said this is stupid though - your example of murder is
one way of explaining that. In that particular case, one must behave
as if the events are real. Thus, when presented with the act of an
individual crossposting and repeating the same thing over and over, we
must also treat that as real. Therefore it fits our definition of a
troll and your actions fit our definitions of a smokescreen. To us you
are those things.
C.
A. P. Hill
> > Mr. AP Hill, CM, and your other names, what exactly are you trying to
> > prove with this prolonged and unneccessary hoax?
>
>
> I am not Mr. A.P. Hill (although I am an admirer of him). If you do
> not believe me, call me on my cellular phone right now at 479-409-4407
> and ask me. Not a single person on this newsgroup has had the courage
> to call me, which proves that they are cowards and hypocrites.
And if someone pretending to be CM:s parents picks up the phone, just
ignore them. It's probably Igor and Brunhilde, CM:s insolent servants
playing pranks.
It's so difficult to find good servants nowadays.
A.P. Hill
It was a terrible 9 months, and 17 days. But alas, My name has now
be elevated to notorious infamous staturatory, thanks to 'A.P. Hill at
USA.com'.
Wine for everyone, there is much to rejoice.
A.P. Hill
Santoonie Corp.
lament
> C.M. come on down:
>
>>I found Amissville to be very well written. The unorthodox writing
>>style contributed to the abstract surrealism of the game.
>
> I agree! Also, the rhythmic devices seemed to counterpoint the
> surrealism of the underlying metaphor of the humanity of the author's
^^^^^^^^
<hushed voice> Trollity!! </hushed voice>
David Keller
<snip>
> The issue isn't whether or not I want non-fans of Amissville to read
> my posts, the question is, why do THEY want to read my posts?
> Obviously they want to read my posts, or else they wouldn't read them.
> Since it's rather difficult to reply to a message without reading it,
> this means that anyone who replies to my posts wants to read my posts.
>
> So if anyone tells me that they do not want to read my posts, I submit
> that they are a liar, since in order to respond to my posts they had
> to make the voluntary decision to read them.
===============
FWIW I read this post to find out why I had the thread marked Watch
Conversation. Unsurprisingly to me the answers seems to be that my aim was
off when I meant to mark the thread Ignore Conversation. An error I'm about
to correct.
Tarage
I agree. If you, sir, really did write the articles you claim, let me
present some of your
writing as testimony against you.
" The fact that Conservatives still deny Global Warming just proves they
don't understand Logic, which by the Ad Hominem Logical Facility makes
them even more wrong! Moses on a stick!"
Without even dealing with the issue referenced above, it's plainly
obvious that you use ad hominem attacks to discredit those with whom you
disagree. That's humorous, because in the very next breath, you condemn
those who use such tactics. I think that says it all.
~Tarage
AEton
> I'm also an editor at the popular alternative-lifestyle weblog
> http://www.trollaxor.com/, home of "The Turd Report" (who is another
I actually can't find anything you've published there except for this:
http://trollaxor.com/story/2002/2/23/204417/607
which is pretty funny. Not bad. :)
> I am a PUBLISHED AUTHOR at one of the Internet's most popular and
> reliable news-media outlets, Adequacy.Org:
>
> http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/8/31/42018/3684
> http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/9/1/232418/6226
Um. Wow. That's great. Please keep writing; I haven't laughed like
this in a _long time_. Excerpts for those of you too lazy to read:
"the reason that mirrors are reflective is that they are coated with a
compound containing liquified Ozone."
"the atmosphere of our planet is made up of a mixture of several
gasses, the most common of which is (obviously, or else we'd have
trouble breathing!) Oxygen...The atmosphere also contains trace
amounts of Nitrogen, but this is used mainly by fungus so it's of no
concern to us."
and, in an incredible followup to some troll who actually took it
seriously:
"[description of nitrogen cycle, for the benefit of the complaintant
who laughed at the idea that nitrogen would be a trace element in
air]... It's a beautiful thing. But Nitrogen in the _air_[was boldface
in original]?! Answer ONE question for me: do you want to inhale fish
crap?"
Another long response: (but trust me, it's worth it) [circumstances: a
commenter mentioned that 'anaerobic' actually means it doesn't need
air, not vice versa]
"an戢er搗搓ic - living, active, or occurring only in the presence of
oxygen <anaerobic respiration>, from Latin "an" meaning "of", "aero"
meaning air, vis, oxygen.
"Aerobic" means "no oxygen." The entomology of the word seems odd at
first, but it's easy to remember if you think of aerobic exercise --
after performing aerobic exercises, you have trouble breathing --
hence how "aerobic" came to be known to science as meaning "no
oxygen."
You know, it's not a crime to check your facts before you post. I know
you may be just trolling, in which case the editors will take care of
you pretty quickly, but if you're not, I'd advise you to do a bit of
RESEARCH to avoid making yourself look foolish.
(And yes, ALL animals are anaerobic and need Oxygen to survive. That's
part of the toxicony of the animal kingdom -- or "animalia" as it's
called in Latin.)"
*rofl* Okay, enough of this for now. More for later, like when you
deliberately leave behind some puzzles in one part of the museum in
"The Mulldoon Legacy" and go to another part, just because it's so
much fun! Second article.
Hm. Okay, caught the ozone-mirror-coating thing, wonderful little
nitrogen ditty; oh, wow. Funny. Dude, you need to write more of this.
Get over whatever's made you so serious lately and let this stuff
burst back out of the back of your throat (like in Aliens, only less
painfully; maybe, we could say, like "Singin' in the Rain"
spontaneously comes out in a rainstorm)--I bet you could get people to
pay. You could compete with jeffk (www.somethingawful.com/jeffk/).
Okay, okay, I won't spoil it for the rest of the group--you've got to
read this stuff, it's like IF only a little more linear (just a
little! the nested comments give you choice, sort of like in _Galatea_
or _The Space Under the Window_). But just two more.
First, for any of you who haven't taken a chemistry course of some
sort, spoiler space:
-
-
"'Ionic bonding can be described as "stealing" electrons. Covalent
bonding is "sharing", not stealing.'
[response]
Once again, this is partially a matter of semantics. Over the past
four years or so since the debut of Napster, the Slashdot crowd of
anti-corporate pseduo-Libertarians wants us to believe that "stealing"
should be referred to as "sharing." I don't by into the hype: if we're
going to antropomorphise, I call co-valent bonding is "stealing" and
ionic bonding is "commerce." Ionic bonding is "commerce" because one
atom has something it needs to get rid of (one or more electrons in
its outer valence), and another atom needs those electrons in order to
complete its own outer valence. A fair exchange is made in which both
atoms are enriched by making a fair exchange. In co-valent bonding,
two or more atoms "communally own" one or more electrons. "Communal
ownership" is one of the tenants of Communism, in which the public
steals all private property "to serve the public good," and the cries
of "information is owned by all of us" is the mating call of the
sexually repressed Geeks who are trying to undermine intellectual
property and put content producers out of business. "
And the last one. If you like dictionaries, you'll love this (as long
as you're not one of those M-W people, roflrofl):
"...I get very annoyed by people continually quoting (and mis-quoting)
these little children's dictionaries. "Merriam/Webster"? Webster was a
known Socialist, so let's not even go there. "American Heritage"? Yes,
let's trust an AMERICAN dictionary for help with the ENGLISH language.
Words cannot describe my joy at reading these posts. If the author
(CM?) can confirm he wrote them, I propose we create a new category
for the XYZZY awards, traditionally only awarded to "true" I-F, and
call it "Most Amusing". All material written and written about on
these mailers (that is your own work, of course) should be considered.
If such awards were implemented, I would gladly nominate CM (along
with a few choice others from r.a/g.i-f this year). Um, however the
nomination process works...
Go Forth, and read!
> http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/8/31/42018/3684
> http://www.adequacy.org/?op=displaystory;sid=2001/9/1/232418/6226
-AEton