IF Pet Peeves

5 views
Skip to first unread message

11dig...@my-deja.com

unread,
Sep 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/30/00
to
1) How can you know what time it is when there are no clocks or watches
around? (example: Interstate 0)

2) Why can't you have 2 of exactly the same object together (example: in
Infocom's "crown jewels" Sherlock game, the papers in the packet were
all different colours. Another example: in Moist, there is a bottle of
red wine and a bottle of white wine.)

3) Why use compass directions for just about all traveling? Is the
player supposed to be carrying a compass with her?

(By the way, if in I-0 you examine Tracy Valencia's driver's license,
you will find that the game is to be taking place in November, or
Halloween at the earliest. Is it REALLY that hot in the desert that time
of year?)

This would be better:

>d
Bottom of Staircase

>i
You are carrying:
Two beers

>drop 1 beer

>i
You are carrying:
One beer

>l
You are at the bottom of a staircase. There is an opening in the wall,
leading to a dungeon. You can see a woman in the dungeon.

>dungeon
This is the entrance to the dungeon. An open cell is in the back of the
room. You can also leave to the torture chamber, or to the staircase
room.
There is a female attendant here, awaiting the arrival of new prisoners.
She looks at you, wondering what you're up to.

>x woman
Her black hair stand out strikingly against her pale skin. She is
wearing a sheath dress and army boots. On her wrist is an elven digital
watch.

>t
You can't read the elven digits.

>torture
Here are the standard medieval torture implements. You can leave to the
dungeon entrance through an opening in the wall.
Also here is a tape measure.

>get tape
Taken.

>x it
It is a four-metre tape measure, labeled with elven digits.

>exit
Dungeon Entrance
The attendant eyes you curiously.

>t
By comparing the digits on the watch to the digits on the tape measure,
you figure out that it is 5:35.

An alternative would be to use a "Zork font" (a la Beyond Zork) for the
digits on the watch.


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Alexander Deubelbeiss

unread,
Sep 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/30/00
to

11dig...@my-deja.com <11dig...@my-deja.com> schrieb in Nachricht
<8r557p$2fo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...

>(By the way, if in I-0 you examine Tracy Valencia's driver's license,
>you will find that the game is to be taking place in November, or
>Halloween at the earliest. Is it REALLY that hot in the desert that time
>of year?)


Didn't she change it to buy booze?


Passenger Pigeon

unread,
Sep 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/30/00
to
In article <8r557p$2fo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, 11dig...@my-deja.com wrote:

> 2) Why can't you have 2 of exactly the same object together (example: in
> Infocom's "crown jewels" Sherlock game, the papers in the packet were
> all different colours. Another example: in Moist, there is a bottle of
> red wine and a bottle of white wine.)

"Which paper do you mean, the paper, the paper or the paper?"

Generally, parser problems like that can be overcome, but it's usually
way too much work when adding a few adjectives makes the problem go away
just as easily.

> 3) Why use compass directions for just about all traveling? Is the
> player supposed to be carrying a compass with her?

Well, in the first few adventure games, which were spelunks, pretty
much, yeah :)

Now it's just tradition. Breaking tradition is all well and good, as
long as any new system introduced is better in some way and not just
different -- changing compass directions to relative directions, for
example, has been done a few times, I think, but generally it didn't
seem a demonstrably better way of dealing with the problem.

> This would be better:
>
> >d
> Bottom of Staircase
>
> >i
> You are carrying:
> Two beers
>
> >drop 1 beer
>
> >i
> You are carrying:
> One beer

This works great until the beers are different from each other, whether
because they started that way or because the player has manipulated
them. At that point it becomes super annoying.

> >l
> You are at the bottom of a staircase. There is an opening in the wall,
> leading to a dungeon. You can see a woman in the dungeon.
>
> >dungeon

Yes, I've definitely seen this kind of movement before. Moonmist
allowed it, I think, among others.

<Space passes...>

> >t
> By comparing the digits on the watch to the digits on the tape measure,
> you figure out that it is 5:35.
>
> An alternative would be to use a "Zork font" (a la Beyond Zork) for the
> digits on the watch.

I remember only a few games where what time it is becomes actually
relevant. In these games, you generally have a watch. In fact, I have
no recollection whatsoever of time in I-0.

--
William Burke, passenge...@hotmail.com. HTH. HAND. * <--- Perth
Support peer pressure -- kick a lemming off a cliff. Go Slugs!
Visit my web page! Current essay: Happiness. http://come.to/passenger-pigeon/

Carl Muckenhoupt

unread,
Sep 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/30/00
to
On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 16:43:37 GMT, 11dig...@my-deja.com wrote:

>2) Why can't you have 2 of exactly the same object together (example: in
>Infocom's "crown jewels" Sherlock game, the papers in the packet were
>all different colours. Another example: in Moist, there is a bottle of
>red wine and a bottle of white wine.)

Although Infocom never developed the necesary technology, modern
systems support indistinguishable objects. Heck, it's so easy to do,
I did it in my toaster-comp game!

>3) Why use compass directions for just about all traveling? Is the
>player supposed to be carrying a compass with her?

In Colossal Cave, that wasn't a bad assumption. Will Crowther
probably had a compass with him at all times when he was mapping the
real Mammoth Cave system. It's worth pointing out that Colossal Cave,
in some early versions at least, allowed the player to move from room
to room by typing the name, just as you describe. People used the
compass directions anyway.

I think Marnie Parker hit the nail on the head in explaining this. It
isn't just a matter of habit or ease (although the fact that compass
directions are supported by the standard libraries is certainly an
influence). Rather, it appeals to the kinaesthetic sense, and thus
creates a greater sense of place than the more abstract
go-to-room-name system.

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Vincent Lynch

unread,
Sep 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/30/00
to
11dig...@my-deja.com wrote:
> 2) Why can't you have 2 of exactly the same object together (example: in
> Infocom's "crown jewels" Sherlock game, the papers in the packet were
> all different colours. Another example: in Moist, there is a bottle of
> red wine and a bottle of white wine.)

Because it's easier to deal with, and there's no reason why not? There are
certainly games where there are more than one of the same object; often a
matchbox contains some number of identical matches, for instance.

> 3) Why use compass directions for just about all traveling? Is the
> player supposed to be carrying a compass with her?

It's a very convenient way of labelling different exits, it makes it
relatively easy for the player to remember the game map, and it's standard, so
the player doesn't have to get used to a new system.

People have tried introducing other systems (e.g. a forward/back/left/right
system); they're almost always less well received, generally (IMO) because
they're *less* natural; if I enter the same room from a different exit, I find
the names for all the other exits have changed, which is unnecessarily
confusing.

-Vincent

Adam Cadre

unread,
Sep 30, 2000, 3:00:00 AM9/30/00
to
> 1) How can you know what time it is when there are no clocks or
> watches around? (example: Interstate 0)

Because it's a computer game that doesn't take itself all that
seriously.

> (By the way, if in I-0 you examine Tracy Valencia's driver's license,
> you will find that the game is to be taking place in November, or
> Halloween at the earliest.

Late November. The fourth Thursday of November, in fact. (Remember,
it's US Thanksgiving.)

> Is it REALLY that hot in the desert that time of year?)

It is in the Doradan desert. Why? Because I made it up, and I say so.

-----
Adam Cadre, Sammamish, WA
web site: http://adamcadre.ac
novel: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060195584/adamcadreac

Mona

unread,
Sep 30, 2000, 9:40:32 PM9/30/00
to
(x-post and followup-to rec.arts.int-fiction)

Carl Muckenhoupt wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 16:43:37 GMT, 11dig...@my-deja.com wrote:
>

> >3) Why use compass directions for just about all traveling? Is the
> >player supposed to be carrying a compass with her?
>

> I think Marnie Parker hit the nail on the head in explaining this. It
> isn't just a matter of habit or ease (although the fact that compass
> directions are supported by the standard libraries is certainly an
> influence). Rather, it appeals to the kinaesthetic sense, and thus
> creates a greater sense of place than the more abstract
> go-to-room-name system.

I've been meaning to post this in the IF for children thread, but just as
an interesting data point in this context:

In Science magazine (this year, May 19, vol 288, # 5469, pp. 1156 - 1159)
was an interesting news bit about endangered languages. One paragraph
dealt with spacial concepts in different cultures. To summarize: there
are (few) cultures in which spatial relations such as 'left' and 'right'
have no meaning. Instead, people orient themselves using global
coordinates and are therefore required to (as the author puts it)
"continually [run] a mental compass and a positioning system." Members of
such a cultural group won't be able to relate "my left eye is blind" but
will have no problem understanding the question "what's wrong with your
northwestern eye?"

The fact that such languages are few and far between probably says
something about their flexibility ("fitness" as it were) in an
evolutional sense. Nevertheless it is interesting to note that the human
mind evidently has no trouble conceptualizing locations and directions
relative to a global coordinate system. (I'll leave the universal
grammar/Chomsky implications as an exercize to the reader.)

If you're lucky enough to have an electronic Science subscription (either
yourself or through your school), the full article can be found at
<http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/288/5469/1156>

If I may quote the relevant passage:

:Many languages, including English, express spatial concepts using
:relative coordinates established through the planes of the body, such as
:left-right and front-back. But Levinson found languages that use very
:different systems. Guugu Yimithirr, an endangered Australian language
:spoken by fewer than 800 people, uses a fixed environmental system of
:four named directions that resemble north, south, east, and west.
:Speakers modify the four words to yield some 50 terms that indicate such
:things as motion toward or away from a direction. They use the same
:terminology to describe both landscape and small-scale space, for
:example: "The school is to the west of the river" and "There's an ant on
:your eastern leg."

:The Guugu Yimithirr terminology reflects an entirely different way of
:conceptualizing a scene, says Levinson. It requires laying out all
:memories in terms of the four directions and continually running
:mental compass and a positioning system.

:Levinson has now investigated a similar phenomenon in the Mayan language
:Tzeltal, in work in press and co-authored with Penelope Brown, also of
:the Max Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics. Brown gathered 600 hours
:of videotape of 15 Tzeltal-speaking children performing various tasks
:and found that children as young as 4 years old have mastered the
:positioning system. Children were asked to describe the arrangement of
:toys on a table, then turn 180 degrees and describe an identical
:arrangement arrayed in front of them. English-speaking children rotate
:their coordinate system as they turn--left becomes right. But for
:Tzeltal-speaking children, north was always north and south remained
:south.

:Levinson concludes that even spatial thinking is learned, not innate.
:Rather than starting from a biologically set concept of space, children
:quickly learn the system used in their culture. Concurs psycholinguist
:Slobin: "The results show flexibility for how we can organize spatial
:concepts for talking and probably thinking."

<TA>
So no more whining about how horribly unnatural compass directions are,
ok?
</TA>

-mona

Al Staffieri Jr.

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 12:22:15 AM10/1/00
to
>>x woman
>Her black hair stand out strikingly against her pale skin. She is
>wearing a sheath dress and army boots. On her wrist is an elven digital
>watch.
>
>>t
>You can't read the elven digits.

I wrote my own parser for my game made in BASIC and I've been working on
improving it. Are x and t pretty much standard equivalents for examine and
time? If so, I'll add them into my parser.

-----
Al Staffieri Jr.
http://members.aol.com/AlStaff/index.html

Mac Game Creator Toolkit CD-ROM
http://www.macgamecreator.com

(Remove NOSPAM from my E-mail address when replying by mail)
-----

Jason Compton

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 1:12:37 AM10/1/00
to
Al Staffieri Jr. <als...@aol.comnospam> wrote:

: I wrote my own parser for my game made in BASIC and I've been working on


: improving it. Are x and t pretty much standard equivalents for examine and
: time? If so, I'll add them into my parser.

And "l" for look.

--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com

Robb Sherwin

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 2:26:49 AM10/1/00
to
On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 16:43:37 GMT, 11dig...@my-deja.com wrote:
>3) Why use compass directions for just about all traveling? Is the
>player supposed to be carrying a compass with her?

Personally, I am a big fan of using compass directions even when,
really, nobody thinks that way. It's just clear. To simulate forward,
backwards, left, right, etc. -- that might provide more "realism" but
at what cost?

Even in a house or something. It's a pain to type "open door to
bedroom" / "go through that door" when you can just type "east." I
think it's something IF, on the whole, has right.

>(By the way, if in I-0 you examine Tracy Valencia's driver's license,
>you will find that the game is to be taking place in November, or

>Halloween at the earliest. Is it REALLY that hot in the desert that time
>of year?)

If Dorado is anything like Colorado then this year proves that no
matter how late in the year it is, it's still possible to think that
you've moved to an exciting new home just a couple miles away from the
Freaking Sun. Heh.

Robb


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Robb Sherwin, Fort Collins CO
Reviews From Trotting Krips: http://ifiction.tsx.org
Knight Orc Home Page: www.geocities.com/~knightorc

Joachim Froholt

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/1/00
to

Jason Compton wrote:

> Al Staffieri Jr. <als...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
>
> : I wrote my own parser for my game made in BASIC and I've been working on
> : improving it. Are x and t pretty much standard equivalents for examine and
> : time? If so, I'll add them into my parser.

Yes. Having to write examine everytime is really annoying, as this is the
command I use the most. One thing which bugs me with this is AGT games. It is so
incredibly easy for an AGT-author (even using the oldest incarnations of AGT) to
allow the player to use x instead of examine, but I haven't seen anyone do it
(except me, but the AGT game I was writing turned into a Magx game, which does
this automatically).

>
> And "l" for look.

And "g" for again, "z" for wait, "q" for quit..

Joachim


Al Staffieri Jr.

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/1/00
to
>> : Are x and t pretty much standard equivalents for examine and

>> : time? If so, I'll add them into my parser.
>
>Yes. Having to write examine everytime is really annoying, as this is the
>command I use the most.

OK. Done.

>> And "l" for look.

I had that one available from very early on.

>And "g" for again, "z" for wait, "q" for quit..

Thanks. I don't think this particular game uses wait or again, but I'll keep
those in mind for future reference. As for quit, I implemented quitting in the
menus, but I think I do have a quit command so I'll see about adding that.

Thanks.

Matthew Murray

unread,
Oct 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/1/00
to
On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Passenger Pigeon wrote:

> Yes, I've definitely seen this kind of movement before. Moonmist
> allowed it, I think, among others.

Nord and Bert Couldn't Make Head Or Tail of It used it
exclusively (to varying degrees of success).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I always wanted to see the lights of Broadway,
And I was told if I look too close I just might go blind...
...If the lights of Broadway blind me,
I won't mind!

-Michael John LaChiusa, from The Wild Party
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew A. Murray - mmu...@cc.wwu.edu - http://www.wwu.edu/~mmurray
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Richard Bos

unread,
Oct 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/2/00
to
11dig...@my-deja.com wrote:

> 1) How can you know what time it is when there are no clocks or watches
> around? (example: Interstate 0)

Some people have a pretty good sense of time, especially outdoors where
the position of the sun helps.

> 2) Why can't you have 2 of exactly the same object together (example: in
> Infocom's "crown jewels" Sherlock game, the papers in the packet were
> all different colours. Another example: in Moist, there is a bottle of
> red wine and a bottle of white wine.)

You can. Mind you, I can see no reason not to have two different bottles
of wine. Several different colours of paper may be worse, though.

> 3) Why use compass directions for just about all traveling? Is the
> player supposed to be carrying a compass with her?

> >torture
[torture the woman]
You smash your remaining bottle of beer and use the edge to cut off the
woman's fingers, joint by joint. Soon, her screams attract the attention
of the palace guard, who come to take you away and remove more than just
some finger-joints.

*** You have died ***

Richard

Neil Cerutti

unread,
Oct 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/2/00
to
Robb Sherwin posted:

>On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 16:43:37 GMT, 11dig...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>3) Why use compass directions for just about all traveling? Is the
>>player supposed to be carrying a compass with her?
>
>Personally, I am a big fan of using compass directions even when,
>really, nobody thinks that way. It's just clear. To simulate forward,
>backwards, left, right, etc. -- that might provide more "realism" but
>at what cost?

_Hunter in Darkness_ used the forward/left/right system well. It
unexpectedly provided an urgent sense of "pushing forward"
through the locations... a sense that Andrew seems to have
recognized and exploited.

He could probably have created the same feeling with the traditional
directions but it would have been more forced. The path back is
always being cut off in _Hunter_, but the movement system covered
it up. Typing "back" just seemed unproductive to me compared to
typing, e.g., "west" would have seemed.

The feeling of being lost in the _Hunter_ maze was more realistic
than in the standard IF maze, too, partly due to the movement
system.

--
Neil Cerutti <cer...@together.net>
Linux on board. It is now safe to turn on your computer.

Neil Cerutti

unread,
Oct 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/2/00
to
Robb Sherwin posted:

>On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 16:43:37 GMT, 11dig...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>3) Why use compass directions for just about all traveling? Is the
>>player supposed to be carrying a compass with her?
>
>Personally, I am a big fan of using compass directions even when,
>really, nobody thinks that way. It's just clear. To simulate forward,
>backwards, left, right, etc. -- that might provide more "realism" but
>at what cost?

_Hunter in Darkness_ used the forward/left/right system well. It


unexpectedly provided an urgent sense of "pushing forward"
through the locations... a sense that Andrew seems to have
recognized and exploited.

He could probably have created the same feeling with the traditional
directions but it would have been more forced. The path back is
always being cut off in _Hunter_, but the movement system covered
it up. Typing "back" just seemed unproductive to me compared to

how typing, e.g., "west" would have seemed.

Knight37

unread,
Oct 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/2/00
to
Quoting 11dig...@my-deja.com from Sat, 30 Sep 2000 16:43:37 GMT:

>>i
>You are carrying:
> Two beers
>
>>drop 1 beer

Which beer do you mean? The American Beer or the Good Beer?

--

Knight37

"And remember, EVIL spelled backwards is LIVE,
and we all want to LIVE, don't we?" -- Rock and Rule


Joe Mason

unread,
Oct 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/2/00
to
In article <8FC15465Fknigh...@209.155.56.81>, Knight37 wrote:
>Quoting 11dig...@my-deja.com from Sat, 30 Sep 2000 16:43:37 GMT:
>
>>>i
>>You are carrying:
>> Two beers
>>
>>>drop 1 beer
>
>Which beer do you mean? The American Beer or the Good Beer?

Shouldn't ChooseObjects be able to make that choice for you?

Joe

Mark Tilford

unread,
Oct 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/6/00
to


-----------------------
Mark J. Tilford
til...@cco.caltech.edu

On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Carl Muckenhoupt wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 16:43:37 GMT, 11dig...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >2) Why can't you have 2 of exactly the same object together (example: in
> >Infocom's "crown jewels" Sherlock game, the papers in the packet were
> >all different colours. Another example: in Moist, there is a bottle of
> >red wine and a bottle of white wine.)
>

> Although Infocom never developed the necesary technology, modern
> systems support indistinguishable objects. Heck, it's so easy to do,
> I did it in my toaster-comp game!
>

Remember the little cubes in Spellbreaker?


Gunther Schmidl

unread,
Oct 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/7/00
to
> It is in the Doradan desert. Why? Because I made it up, and I say so.

YOU CAN'T JUST GO AND MAKE STUFF UP!1!!!11!!1!

YOU OWE US!!111!!1!1!1

-- 6uN7h3R


Aris Katsaris

unread,
Oct 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/7/00
to

Al Staffieri Jr. <als...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20001001002215...@ng-fo1.aol.com...

> >>x woman
> >Her black hair stand out strikingly against her pale skin. She is
> >wearing a sheath dress and army boots. On her wrist is an elven digital
> >watch.
> >
> >>t
> >You can't read the elven digits.
>
> I wrote my own parser for my game made in BASIC and I've been working on
> improving it. Are x and t pretty much standard equivalents for examine and
> time? If so, I'll add them into my parser.

"X" is standard equivalent for examine. In fact a game which didn't have it
would
rate lower for me, since "x" is ultra-convenient.

"t" for "time" I hadn't ever heard before now.

Aris Katsaris

Nele Abels-Ludwig

unread,
Oct 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/8/00
to
On Sat, 7 Oct 2000, Aris Katsaris wrote:
[...]

> "t" for "time" I hadn't ever heard before now.

It is used in Trinity, but only because the time-factor is so important
there.

Nele
--
"Sandsack ist gut für Härte, Sandsack ist gut für Schnelligkeit, aber
Sandsack wehrt sich nicht. Ihr müßt trainieren mit Partner!" Sensei
Leszek, 3. Dan Kyokushin Karate auf dem Sommerlager 2000.


BrenBarn

unread,
Oct 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/8/00
to
"Aris Katsaris" kats...@otenet.gr wrote:
>> I wrote my own parser for my game made in BASIC and I've been working on
>> improving it. Are x and t pretty much standard equivalents for examine and
>> time? If so, I'll add them into my parser.
>
>"X" is standard equivalent for examine. In fact a game which didn't have it
>would
>rate lower for me, since "x" is ultra-convenient.
>

This reminds me: what is the consensus on using "look something" as a
shorthand for "examine something"? There was discussion several months ago
about how convenience in typing conflicts with grammatical correctness, I know;
for me, at least, it's far easier to type "L" than to type "X".
--BrenBarn (Bren...@aol.com)
(Name in header has spam-blocker, use the address above instead.)

"Do not follow where the path may lead;
go, instead, where there is no path, and leave a trail."
--Author Unknown

Neil Cerutti

unread,
Oct 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/8/00
to
On bren...@aol.comRemove posted:

>This reminds me: what is the consensus on using "look something"
>as a shorthand for "examine something"? There was discussion
>several months ago about how convenience in typing conflicts
>with grammatical correctness, I know; for me, at least, it's far
>easier to type "L" than to type "X".

I think "look thing" shouldn't be recognized, because it's
ambiguous and ungrammatical. It used to be okay when we had
two-word parsers, but not any more.

It doesn't really conflict with anything if your game
accepts 'look thing' as a shortcut for 'examine thing', but it
isn't better than 'x thing'.

--
Neil Cerutti <cer...@together.net>
<http://homepages.together.net/~cerutti/>

Paul O'Brian

unread,
Oct 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/8/00
to
On 8 Oct 2000, BrenBarn wrote:

> for me, at least, it's far easier to type "L" than to type "X".

Far easier? Really? This statement confuses me. Is it that you're disabled
in your left hand?

--
Paul O'Brian obr...@colorado.edu http://ucsu.colorado.edu/~obrian
SPAG #22 is out, with a cornucopia of reviews and articles, including an
interview with Scott Adams! Check it out at http://www.sparkynet.com/spag


Gunther Schmidl

unread,
Oct 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/8/00
to
> I think "look thing" shouldn't be recognized, because it's
> ambiguous and ungrammatical. It used to be okay when we had
> two-word parsers, but not any more.

Oh, and there I went and put it in my WiP...

-- Gunther


11dig...@my-deja.com

unread,
Oct 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/8/00
to
"LOOK AT THING"!!!! Try "look AT thing", not "look thing"!!!!!!

Gunther Schmidl

unread,
Oct 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/9/00
to
<11dig...@my-deja.com> wrote:

> "LOOK AT THING"!!!! Try "look AT thing", not "look thing"!!!!!!

"GET POINT"!!!! You try, but it evades your grasp!!!!!!

-- g.

Chris Marriott

unread,
Oct 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/9/00
to

BrenBarn <bren...@aol.comRemove> wrote in message
news:20001008130316...@ng-fs1.aol.com...

> This reminds me: what is the consensus on using "look something" as a
> shorthand for "examine something"? There was discussion several months
ago
> about how convenience in typing conflicts with grammatical correctness, I
know;
> for me, at least, it's far easier to type "L" than to type "X".

Could you elaborate on that - why is typing "L" easier than typing "X"?

Regards,

--
Chris
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Marriott, SkyMap Software, UK (ch...@skymap.com)
Visit our web site at http://www.skymap.com
Astronomy software written by astronomers, for astronomers


James Marshall

unread,
Oct 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/9/00
to
In article <971101716.24228.2...@news.demon.co.uk> "Chris Marriott" <ch...@nospam.chrism.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>BrenBarn <bren...@aol.comRemove> wrote in message
>news:20001008130316...@ng-fs1.aol.com...
>> This reminds me: what is the consensus on using "look something" as a
>> shorthand for "examine something"? There was discussion several months
>> ago about how convenience in typing conflicts with grammatical correctness,
>> I know; for me, at least, it's far easier to type "L" than to type "X".

>Could you elaborate on that - why is typing "L" easier than typing "X"?

Personally, I don't think it's actually easier to type an "l" instead of
an "x". I think the difference is that there are parsers and/or games out
there that don't recognize "x" means "examine". This problem may be limited
to older games and/or older parsers, but I think some of the less popular
game writing systems sometimes have that problem as well. I thought I saw
this happen in one of the games for this year's comp, but I'm not certain
so I could be wrong. Most of the time it shouldn't make any difference
whether looking at an object gives you the same response as examining it.
However, if the game doesn't know that "x" means "examine", then typing
"l object" to examine it is easier and faster than "examine object".

--
. . . . -- James Marshall (CAS) . .
,. -- )-- , , . -- )-- , mars...@astro.umd.edu ., .
' ' http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall
"Equations are living things." .

BrenBarn

unread,
Oct 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/9/00
to
"Chris Marriott" ch...@nospam.chrism.demon.co.uk wrote:
>Could you elaborate on that - why is typing "L" easier than typing "X"?

Well, first of all, when I say that typing L is "easier" than typing X,
the "er" in "easier" refers to a very tiny tiny difference. I'm talking
fractions of a second; probably hundredths of a second; but in typing, these
differences are notable (to me, at least).

Having said that, it's easier to type L because my right ring finger is
already on the L, whereas for the X I have to reach down with either my ring or
middle fingers.

If I could possibly be any more neurotically attentive to details like
these, please let me know :-).

BrenBarn

unread,
Oct 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/9/00
to
>Personally, I don't think it's actually easier to type an "l" instead of
>an "x". I think the difference is that there are parsers and/or games out
>there that don't recognize "x" means "examine".

There are also parsers out there (many, many parsers) that don't recognize
"L" to mean "look at". I personally have seen more parsers that don't let
"L"="look at" than that don't let "X"="examine".

Neil Cerutti

unread,
Oct 9, 2000, 9:01:00 PM10/9/00
to
On gsch...@gschmidl.freeserve.co.uk posted:

I got no beef. I'm just saying 'look thing' isn't better than
'x thing'. Real profound of me, I know. ;-)

Nele Abels-Ludwig

unread,
Oct 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM10/10/00
to

"I don't understand POINT."

ArKane

unread,
Oct 14, 2000, 11:29:40 PM10/14/00
to
Richard Bos was overheard typing about:

>> 2) Why can't you have 2 of exactly the same object together
>> (example: in Infocom's "crown jewels" Sherlock game, the papers
>> in the packet were all different colours. Another example: in
>> Moist, there is a bottle of red wine and a bottle of white
>> wine.)
>

>You can. Mind you, I can see no reason not to have two different
>bottles of wine. Several different colours of paper may be worse,
>though.

FWIW, the two different bottles in Moist are part of a puzzle or
maybe two.

ArKane
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
ArKane http://www.geocities.com/aetus_kane/
ICQ: 78983892

"Knowledge of the ArKane is not as relevant
as the application of what you know."

T Raymond

unread,
Oct 14, 2000, 11:34:30 PM10/14/00
to
Knight37 was overheard typing about:

>Quoting 11dig...@my-deja.com from Sat, 30 Sep 2000 16:43:37 GMT:
>
>>>i
>>You are carrying:
>> Two beers
>>
>>>drop 1 beer
>
>Which beer do you mean? The American Beer or the Good Beer?

Shouldn't that be something like:
The good homebrewed beer, or the cheap commercial made beer?

Tom (an American brewer)
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Tom Raymond adk AT usaDOTnet
"The original professional ameteur."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages