What would YOU change in Nethack 3.1.3?
T. M. Cuffel
Stephen White <swh...@cs.mun.ca> wrote:
>Hey there all you Hackers!
>
>I would like to know what you would change or add to NH 3.1.3 ... new items,
>features, whatever! :)
1. Variable dungeon sizes. Nethack would be interesting at 132 x 60.
2. Items that DO things. Combat bonuses and intrinsics are nice, but a
truly useful sword would light up a room or cast a spell. There is
currently no middle ground between mundane items and singular artifacts.
3. These sub-artifacts would fill a niche, so existing artifacts should be
made rarer, dangerous to acquire, more powerful, and add more drawbacks to
using them. Stromy and the blasts o' power are a nice start, but a
powerful character carries these guys around like so many golf clubs.
An item that slowed hp and power regeration, aggravated monsters,
hurt luck, or had to be cursed to work would make the game more interesting.
4. None weapon artifacts besides quest items would be nice, too.
5. Optional quests for everyone. In a way, there have been in nethack for
a while. Things like getting a crysknife or GDSM have been multistep
processes for character to discover and utilize. Expanding on this,
why not have multistep processes for gaining other useful things?
This could be simple changes in existing items (dip this ring in this
potion and zap it with this wand), or complex, with special rooms and
extra levels. You could quest to find an artifact, gain intrinsics,
rare spells, superhuman ability scores, or powers of other classes,
for example.
6. More intrinsics, and a special intrisic unique to each class (like the
archeologist or the priest).
7. A better spell system, where spells are harder to use, but last
indefinitely.
--
T. M. Cuffel "So do you have any experience watching children?"
"Only from my car."
-Some TV show
KUDZU
quest artifact have power as an unlimited wand of digging. This is integral
to the archeologist's character and should somehow be implemented in their
quest.
-Kudzu
--
##*##*##*##*##*##*##*##*## Satan is GOOD ##*##*##*##*##*##*##*##*##*##
#chr...@cie-2.uoregon.edu# Satan is OUR PAL # Per ardua ad astra #
##*##*##*##*##*##*##*##*## Satan drives a PLOW ##*##*##*##*##*##*##*##*##*##
Satan says "MEOW!"
Dave Ripton
> archeologist or the priest).
Excellent suggestion. Valkyries already have one, too: the Chuck-a-Mojo.
Samarai have the differing names for common items. Elves have a couple of
permanent and unique quirks due to being non-human, but everybody else
becomes too similar at high enough levels. Give mages a decent shot at
auto-identifying items. Give knights a holy hand grenade or something.
They need the help. I don't know what to give healers, except for maybe
some special relationship with nurses or the ability to heal with a
separate mechanism from spells. Don't give tourists anything more,
though: there needs to be a class for masochists and pros. Really
give rogues a chance to do something rogueish -- let them pick stuff
up in shops unnoticed or climb walls or something.
And I really think the Hacker class should go in. It's so elegant. More
so than several of the ones that are already in there. Has anybody
done an unofficial patch for this one yet?
I'd like to see a few more strange and infrequent things like the Bigroom
level. Stuff that happens infrequently enough that your friends don't
believe it really happened until you grep through the code for it...
Stick a copy of the FAQ into the distribution code, so people don't
post here looking for ftp sites quite as much. Minor, I know.
Dave "Elbereth is for wimps" Ripton
Jukka S Lahtinen
>How about a Box/Chest/Bag of Cancellation?
>This probably needs tweaking, as it could be abused easily. (Or perhaps
A box/chest of cancellation would be a neat place to put all those wands
you don't want the monsters to use but don't like to carry around yourself!
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! Jukka S Lahtinen ! jsla...@vipunen.hut.fi ! wal...@mits.mdata.fi !
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Boudewijn Wayers
>A box/chest of cancellation would be a neat place to put all those wands
>you don't want the monsters to use but don't like to carry around yourself!
Why would this have to be a box of cancellation? An ordinary box works
just as well to prevent monsters from using an item... Also, the wands
keep their charges this way, so you can still polymorph them and make
use of them yourself!
Boudewijn.
--
True or False, but they say that...
They say that you can't wipe your greasy bare hands on a blank scroll. (F)
They say that monsters never step on a scare monster scroll. (T)
They say that when you wear a circular amulet you might resemble a troll. (F)
Van Deun Dirk
players (instead of making all classes a bit harder, make one very hard
class - give newbies a chance). Bonusses in the score for unused wishes.
Walking around with a cursed Bell of Opening decreases your luck. In
short, discourage abuses, but don't make them impossible (like the
golems in polypiling)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dirk van Deun Student of Classical Philology hw4...@vub.ac.be
Native language: Dutch - Speaks English - Understands French and German
GSS/CS d?(--) -p+(--) c++ l u+ e+ m+ s++(@)/-- n@ h+(*) f+ g++ w@ t+ r(-) y?
The University is not responsible for my mistakes against the English Language
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Eric McWhorter
Bryan Butler <but...@cluster.gps.caltech.edu> wrote:
>- make artifacts hard or impossible to get. if impossible, you
> could only get them on the quest. one idea is to make all the
> quest artifacts weapons, then allow for one other artifact
> from wishing. no other artifacts allowed. i don't know,
> but it seems it's just too easy to get named weapons.
One of the most endearing qualities of nethack is it's
randomness. What you are suggesting sounds like just adding
another destination for a character rather than 'hoping' you
get a decent weapon at some point. I would, however, like to
see a monster randomly generated wielding the artifact you are
granted. For example, if you really want stormy you'll just
have to kill the balrog wielding it (balrog could be peaceful
to give low level characters a chance at planning an attack).
>- make wishing harder. make the wand in the castle a random
> wand, and lower the probabilities for randomly getting wishes
> from fountains, thrones, potions, lamps, etc.
NOOOOOO!!!!! You'll think that a great idea until you get your first
light shop with 6 candles. I personally use those wishes for magic
mapping (mazes are a bit mundane). Also, what if you never have a
RoTC generated and never once meet a tengu? I like having some wishes
to make the boring parts of the game (ie all the maze levels) go MUCH
faster. If you don't like the WoW in the castle, then use it up
wishing for rocks like someone suggested a month or so ago.
>- make intelligent monsters be able to do all that player
> characters can do. this would be a bitch to program, though.
The only addition in this department I would make would be allowing
monsters to zap wands of cancellation.
>- make it harder to get pets, and impossible to polymorph them.
Bah! I think they should all eat, however. Make intelligent ones
eat food rations. Now wouldn't that be annoying!
>- improve the eating/choking thing. i just choked a great
> valk on the medusa level trying to get the teleport intrinsic
> from a nymph :(. maybe you should just pass out for many
> turns if you try to keep stuffing yourself.
No, because there is at least one way I know of (learned from
reading this newsgroup) of avoiding that.
>- more classes. i like some of the ones which have been
> suggested lately (did anyone else see the 10 year old indian
> girl who's training to be a Yogi?).
Good idea. I've always wanted a class that started with nothing.
No intrinsics, no armor, and no weapon.
--
er...@cs.montana.edu
Patrick M Cameron-1
to say. How about friendly creatures trying to trade or sell you a couple
items? A dwarf might part with his pick-axe for a gem or his dwarven-
mithril coat for some gold. Just as quick example.
--Pat
Nhan Hoang
the bell, you should summon ALL kinds of undead, including the ones that
were genocided (and effectively reverse-genocide them). After a few rounds
with Master Liches, you'll reconsider trying to get those wraiths.
Michael Edward Chastain
Massimo Campostrini <ca...@sunthpi3.difi.unipi.it> wrote:
> I would drop 80% of the "filler" levels of Gehennom. They are just
> boring, not difficult at all.
Yes, please, dev team!
Michael Chastain
m...@shell.portal.com
Aaron Ranta
Hell, the bastards are already dead. Being able to genocide them makes
little to no sense at all.
Aaron
Mills / Allan William (ISE)
artifacts. How about when you find one you don't know instantly that it
is an artifact, how about a 1/5 chance of experiencing a tingle when you
pick it up except for wrong alignment artifacts which will always blast
you. When you wish for an artifact you can get a bad one. eg.
z zap which [abcd -*?]
b - wand of wishing
You may wish for an object. What do you wish for : Platinum Yendorian
Express card
x - a credit card
r - what do you wish to read [f -*?]
f - scroll of identify
what type of thing do you wish to identify - (
x - a credit card [ynaq] y
x - Iron Vlad's express card
a - apply what [x -*?] x
The Iron Vlad's express card sucks your life force [more]
Goodbye level 12.]
Allan
do...@earlham.edu
unidentified equipment that players do (quaffing poison, zapping
themselves with attack wands, etc.). That's always been a major character
killer for me and it's tremendously unfair that the monsters don't have
the same problem. *pout*
Some sort of mechanism for saving players from stray keystrokes.
Losing a character to lava, water, etc. by hitting the wrong key is
incredibly frustrating, and it's not even the sort of mistake you learn from.
Wade Scholine
< stuff deleted >
> Some sort of mechanism for saving players from stray keystrokes.
>Losing a character to lava, water, etc. by hitting the wrong key is
>incredibly frustrating, and it's not even the sort of mistake you learn from.
A smaller change would do some good... in the current game, the shifted
move commands (HJKLBNYU) will cause you to run on top of a trap that
you've already ID'd. I'd like to see the change where you never walk
onto a known trap except after an explicit command to do so. Sort of
like SAFEPET.... "Really walk onto the sleeping gas trap? (y/N)"
(this has killed me more than once).
The Vanishing Valor
want them: Lawyer, Gambler, and Musician.
As for other things...gargoyles (stone gremlins....evil), 4 named Archangel
Levels (between the 5 elemental planes...Raphael first, then Gabriel, then
Uriel, then Michael, who is wielding a sword that functions exactly like the
ToM, but disappears with his (or your) death).
Last, but not least: a pet shop.
Ok, it sells cursed figurines (that the shopkeeper blesses when you pay for them
and they cannot be uncursed/blessed any other way...
For details, let me know that you want them....
The Vanishing Valor
The Vanishing Valor
the other bracket), or vice-versa...
Aaron Ranta
The Vanishing Valor <boo...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>
>Last, but not least: a pet shop.
>Ok, it sells cursed figurines (that the shopkeeper blesses when you pay for them
>and they cannot be uncursed/blessed any other way...
>
Oh, hey! Great idea! A pet shop would be great...
But instead of making them figurings, make the room a whole series of
one square cubicals with doors you can see through. Or perhaps
with an engraving in front of each door saying what is in it.
Then you can pick a pet, and when you open the door it is considered
paid for and tamed. =) Or some such.
Aaron
Michael Jason Lewis
Og eats a floating eye corpse.
.
(later)
.
Og barks!
.
You see a door open.
or
You hear a zap! -- More --
It hits Og! It doesn't seem to bother Og! -- More --
The bolt of fire hits you! You die...
or
Og eats a chameleon corpse. -- More --
Og yips! -- More --
Og turns into a baby purple worm!
- Mike
Aaron Ranta
Michael Jason Lewis <tr...@leland.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>One thing I've always wondered--why don't pets get intrinsics?
>
Oh, good idea.
This has always bothered me too. How come your pet can always follow
you around, even when you're invisible? If you polymorph into a
dog, you certainly don't have a see invisible intrinsic.
So let pets get intrinsics too.
Og eats the stalker corpse.
Og suddenly disappears.
The invisible Og barks.
Aaron
John Novak
vague, but here goes:
o Reform Gehennom. Its annoying. Its aggrivating. Even
if I do, by some miracle, get a character that might survive to
the bottom, I tend to lose interest. I mean, how many annoying
mazes must I contend with?
If we must have a maze or two, keep them in the spirit of
the game, and make them 'special levels' with a special adversary
at the end-- _The_ Minotaur. The real one. Better, make the
Minotaur the guardian for the entrance to Vlad's (or someone's)
tower. Give the minotaur the same annoying teleport-away-at-will
powers, along with the common sense to move down the stairs and
protect the tower entrance.
Give each existing demon lord a special level or two in
Hell. Make them 'theme' levels-- a demon lord of frost, a demon
lord of fire, etc.
o I may be whining a little, but I'd like to see a little
more chance of there being altars (particularly coaligned altars)
somewhere in the dungeon. I've seen dungeons where there were
_no_ altars except a non-aligned temple in the Mines and the one
in the Valley. I'm almost never strong enough to convert the
Gnomish temple (and live through it) while I'm anywhere near it,
and I'd sure as hell like something before reaching the castle
level.
o Make the quest artifacts a little more useful. Some of
them seem generically useless. A nice touch would be making them
undamageable and weightless. If I have to go through the damned
quest in the first place (along with waiting to achieve 14th
level-- I recently died from loitering while trying to gain that
last annoying level) itd be nice to have good toy at the end.
o Make the gift artifacts a little more varied. How about
some special armors, or something? Unfortunately, my imagination
seems to have left me, at the moment, so I can't think of
anything suitable. Hmm. How about the fabled ring of extra
fingers? Consumes food like a ring, but allows you to wear four
rings (including the ring of extra fingers) at one time. Or the
Cloak of the Marillith, which gives you effectively four arms--
so as to wield two weapons and two shields, or two two-handed
weapons?
Don't get me wrong-- I still love the game...
--
John S. Novak, III
j...@cegt201.bradley.edu
j...@camelot.bradley.edu
The Grim Reaper
John Novak <j...@cegt201.bradley.edu> wrote:
>Some of this has doubtlessly been mentioned, and some of it is
>vague, but here goes:
>
>o Reform Gehennom. Its annoying. Its aggrivating. Even
>if I do, by some miracle, get a character that might survive to
>the bottom, I tend to lose interest. I mean, how many annoying
>mazes must I contend with?
Amen. 10 levels is about my personal limit, then I get annoyed.
*Especially* since I have to magic map the level or whatever to
find Vlad's tower.
> If we must have a maze or two, keep them in the spirit of
>the game, and make them 'special levels' with a special adversary
>at the end-- _The_ Minotaur. The real one. Better, make the
>Minotaur the guardian for the entrance to Vlad's (or someone's)
>tower. Give the minotaur the same annoying teleport-away-at-will
>powers, along with the common sense to move down the stairs and
>protect the tower entrance.
This is a pretty good idea. Maybe The Minotaur could have some sort
of decent item at the end, but I don't know what. Maybe gauntlets
of power? Plus, wandering in the maze should have a chance to confuse
you ever so often: "This maze seems rather confusing -more- You feel
lost -more- You feel confused..."
> Give each existing demon lord a special level or two in
>Hell. Make them 'theme' levels-- a demon lord of frost, a demon
>lord of fire, etc.
Hmm, I dunno about this one. It's kinda overlapping with the Elemental
Planes at the end, dontcha think?
>o I may be whining a little, but I'd like to see a little
>more chance of there being altars (particularly coaligned altars)
>somewhere in the dungeon. I've seen dungeons where there were
>_no_ altars except a non-aligned temple in the Mines and the one
>in the Valley. I'm almost never strong enough to convert the
>Gnomish temple (and live through it) while I'm anywhere near it,
>and I'd sure as hell like something before reaching the castle
>level.
Usually I'm okay with this one. Perhaps you've just been terribly
unlucky.
>o Make the quest artifacts a little more useful. Some of
>them seem generically useless. A nice touch would be making them
>undamageable and weightless. If I have to go through the damned
>quest in the first place (along with waiting to achieve 14th
>level-- I recently died from loitering while trying to gain that
>last annoying level) itd be nice to have good toy at the end.
I agree! Merlin's Mirror sucks! And it doesn't even give reflection!
Also, it's kinda dumb to have the crystal ball quest items explode
occasionally. How about making all quest items permanently blessed, but
with 0 charges. They can still be a)pplied, but this would just extend the
period of time before you can #invoke them, instead of using up charges.
>o Make the gift artifacts a little more varied. How about
>some special armors, or something? Unfortunately, my imagination
This is good too. How about Perseus's Winged Boots [or whoever],
granting flight ability like the Vampire lord has (levitation plus
able to pick up objects), and you wouldn't break things when you drop
them, or be knocked backwards. Or the Dragon Shield, that can be invoked
for random dragon breath attack. Or... umm... Gauntlets of Martial Arts
[or something] that increase damage when using no weapons. Or... hmm.
Helm of Great Knowledge, granting ESP, and acting as a helm of brilliance,
and giving you some more power regeneration. Or... umm... Xornhide Cloak,
letting you phase through walls?
>seems to have left me, at the moment, so I can't think of
>anything suitable. Hmm. How about the fabled ring of extra
>fingers? Consumes food like a ring, but allows you to wear four
>rings (including the ring of extra fingers) at one time. Or the
>Cloak of the Marillith, which gives you effectively four arms--
>so as to wield two weapons and two shields, or two two-handed
>weapons?
Yikes. Okay, I wear three rings of extra ring finger, plus 8 rings of
increase damage +4. I hit you with Greyswandir. Ouch.
>Don't get me wrong-- I still love the game...
Don't we all.
>--
>John S. Novak, III
>j...@cegt201.bradley.edu
>j...@camelot.bradley.edu
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| One .sig to rule them all, one .sig to find them... |
| One .sig to bring them all and in the darkness bind them |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| The Grim Reaper (Reaper of Souls, Stealer of .sigs) |
| scy...@u.washington.edu |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
Mills / Allan William (ISE)
>
>I would add save restore routines with an ability
>for multible saves.
>
>
It's an interesting idea except that a) tradition hackers would consider
it cheating b) a near finished game goes nearly 1Mb for a save game. c)
it's just really not what the game is about.
Allan
Topi Ylinen
Aaron Ranta <a...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>In article <2m2dan$3...@nntp2.Stanford.EDU>,
>Michael Jason Lewis <tr...@leland.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
>>One thing I've always wondered--why don't pets get intrinsics?
>>
>
>Oh, good idea.
>This has always bothered me too. How come your pet can always follow
>you around, even when you're invisible? If you polymorph into a
>dog, you certainly don't have a see invisible intrinsic.
>So let pets get intrinsics too.
>
Dogs don't need vision, they can always hear and - first and foremost -
smell you.
Another version:
>Og eats the stalker corpse.
>Og suddenly disappears.
You hit it. It yelps!
You hit it. It yelps! You have frightened it! It bites! It bites!
It bites!
You die...
(ty, killed by an invisible tiger called Og)
<Topi Ylinen = f1t...@kielo.uta.fi>
**************************************************************
* One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, *
* One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. *
**************************************************************
"TRIPLE TIME! TRIPLE TIME!
In Avalon Hill's Squad Leader, an infantryman carrying a flamethrower can run
at 25 mph along a road, providing a sergeant or other leader is encouraging
him..." (MURPHY'S RULES)
Helge Hafting
> Occasionally have the monsters make the same dumb mistakes with
> unidentified equipment that players do (quaffing poison, zapping
> themselves with attack wands, etc.). That's always been a major character
> killer for me and it's tremendously unfair that the monsters don't have
> the same problem. *pout*
spoiler:
1. monsters always drink their potions of gain level, even when it is cursed.
A great way to get rid of that master lich, just drop a potion where he
will find it.
2. weak monsters always zap themselves with a wand of polymorph, hoping
to become something strong. But they run the same risks as you. I remember a
level that was littered with armor after a lot of fighting. Suddenly
this dwarf shows up. He starts picking up good weapons, and lots of different
armor which he wear. Then he approach me, and:
The dwarf zap himself with a wand of polymorph! -more-
The killer bee shrink out of its cloak
hahahahahahahaha.....
> Some sort of mechanism for saving players from stray keystrokes.
> Losing a character to lava, water, etc. by hitting the wrong key is
> incredibly frustrating, and it's not even the sort of mistake you learn from.
Well, you learn to be more careful with those keys...
I use shift+arrows (on a pc) this makes the character go as far as
possible in one direction, always stopping before lave/water.
Helge
Anita Van Nieuwenborg
|>
|>2. weak monsters always zap themselves with a wand of polymorph, hoping
|>to become something strong. But they run the same risks as you. I remember a
|>level that was littered with armor after a lot of fighting. Suddenly
|>this dwarf shows up. He starts picking up good weapons, and lots of different
|>armor which he wear. Then he approach me, and:
|>The dwarf zap himself with a wand of polymorph! -more-
|>The killer bee shrink out of its cloak
|>hahahahahahahaha.....
When I for the umpteenth time arrived at the boneslevel with the ex-pet-djinni
called "Ghosty" (I don;t know who thought of that) The last thing I tried
was zapping him (her/it?) with a wand of polymorph.
I forgot the exact message....but the djinni died because of the polymorph.
There were 3 bones-piles on that level which gave me a lot of usefull stuff.
Lateron I died while undressing for a nurse...while using the A command to
take of all my clothing. Why don't you stop disrobing when a monster
starts attacking you? Or was this because it was a nurse?
Happy hacking
Anita (stil trying to ascend a Priest)
--
Anita J.E. van Nieuwenborg European Organisation For Nuclear Research
sle...@dxcern.cern.ch Division ECP - RA
<Sleepy> @ IRC
+41 22 767 8705 (office) "Hey, we can do anything at CERN"
+33 50 41 21 24 (home) --- Carlo Rubbia
Jerzy Michal Pawlak
In article <2m2q6e$5...@cegt201.bradley.edu>, j...@cegt201.bradley.edu (John Novak) writes:
>Some of this has doubtlessly been mentioned, and some of it is
>vague, but here goes:
>
>o Reform Gehennom. Its annoying. Its aggrivating. Even
>if I do, by some miracle, get a character that might survive to
>the bottom, I tend to lose interest. I mean, how many annoying
>mazes must I contend with?
>
with them. Less intelligent but patient ones map them and get through.
And those impatient - well, have no qualification to become winners :-)
And: mazes are 'traditional' since HACK - I'll be first to protest if someone
comes up with a game without any mazes and calls it 'nethack' :-)
>
>o I may be whining a little, but I'd like to see a little
>more chance of there being altars (particularly coaligned altars)
>somewhere in the dungeon. I've seen dungeons where there were
>_no_ altars except a non-aligned temple in the Mines and the one
>in the Valley. I'm almost never strong enough to convert the
>Gnomish temple (and live through it) while I'm anywhere near it,
>and I'd sure as hell like something before reaching the castle
>level.
>
whole game. The two (more more some classes) guaranteed altars are a nice
3.1 touch. What you demand is basically a guaranteed co-aligned altar -
well, I'm not sure, maybe...
>o Make the quest artifacts a little more useful. Some of
>them seem generically useless. A nice touch would be making them
>undamageable and weightless. If I have to go through the damned
>quest in the first place (along with waiting to achieve 14th
>level-- I recently died from loitering while trying to gain that
>last annoying level) itd be nice to have good toy at the end.
>
They are quite useful already - making them more powerful could unbalance
the game a bit too far. Remember, what you really quest for is the other
thing, that you REALLY need to ascend...
I would rather support the idea of generating mini-quests for other
artifacts. Not necesairly 'fighting' quests (i.e. super-mosnter holding
the artifact) - rather closer to the present Excalibur production (maybe
with more difficult ingredients). You could then limit artifact generation
from offering a bit more and, as a consequence, you would not neet co-aligned
altars that badly.
>o Make the gift artifacts a little more varied. How about
>some special armors, or something? Unfortunately, my imagination
>seems to have left me, at the moment, so I can't think of
>anything suitable. Hmm. How about the fabled ring of extra
>fingers? Consumes food like a ring, but allows you to wear four
>rings (including the ring of extra fingers) at one time. Or the
>Cloak of the Marillith, which gives you effectively four arms--
>so as to wield two weapons and two shields, or two two-handed
>weapons?
>
Yes, it is a long-standing r.g.h 'wish' for more diverse artifacts (not
just weapons) and I support it...
--
Michal (paw...@zeubac.desy.de)
John Novak
>Well, I already told it several times. Intelligent hackers have no problem
>with them. Less intelligent but patient ones map them and get through.
>And those impatient - well, have no qualification to become winners :-)
>And: mazes are 'traditional' since HACK - I'll be first to protest if someone
>comes up with a game without any mazes and calls it 'nethack' :-)
I know you've said it several times. I just haven't happened to
agree with you any of those times. If I want an excercise in
boredom, I'll go spill salt and put it back in the shaker without
taking the cap off.
I'd like a challenge, yes, but not one of patience in that sense.
>Oh well, in 3.0 it was possible that there was not a single altar in the
>whole game. The two (more more some classes) guaranteed altars are a nice
>3.1 touch. What you demand is basically a guaranteed co-aligned altar -
>well, I'm not sure, maybe...
I misspoke-- a non-guarded would be nice, too.
(Of course, I wrote that coming down off three games in which the
lack of an accessible place of worship played a role in my
downfall, so my thoughts may have been colored. I just want my
constitutional rights!!! :-)
>They are quite useful already - making them more powerful could unbalance
>the game a bit too far. Remember, what you really quest for is the other
>thing, that you REALLY need to ascend...
Sigh... Yeah, this has been pointed out, and its not actually
something I had considered.
> I would rather support the idea of generating mini-quests for other
>artifacts. Not necesairly 'fighting' quests (i.e. super-mosnter holding
>the artifact) - rather closer to the present Excalibur production (maybe
>with more difficult ingredients). You could then limit artifact generation
>from offering a bit more and, as a consequence, you would not neet co-aligned
>altars that badly.
This sounds good. This sounds _very_ good, if done creatively.
>Yes, it is a long-standing r.g.h 'wish' for more diverse artifacts (not
>just weapons) and I support it...
:-)
Course, the _main_ issue seems to be game balance with the new
items. My little cloak of the Marillith has the potential for
massive abuse... "Ah, a CoM! Now I can wield the Tsurugi, the
shield of reflection, and the athame Magicbane!! Nyahahahaaa!"
(Which is, in fact, what I once tried to do, while polymorphed
into a Marillith. I wanted to wield Excaliber and mjollnir, too,
I think. Didn't work.)
Jukka S Lahtinen
>>You should try using g<direction> instead of the shifted direction.
>I know that. But I am too lazy to use g most of the time. I still
That's funny. I don't think using g as prefix means any more keystrokes
than using shift. In both cases, you use two keys: either g BEFORE the
direction, or shift AT THE SAME TIME WITH the direction..
(And besides, g is used with the index finger while the shift keys are used
with little finger, and often with less movement..)
Van Deun Dirk
>(...) Why don't you stop disrobing when a monster
>starts attacking you? Or was this because it was a nurse?
Have you ever tried fighting or just running with one arm stuck in a
sleeve ? You obviously cannot defend yourself in such an embarassing
position...
Jon Gordon
>Some of them are deliberately weak, compared to other ones. This is
>mainly when the corresponding class is already quite strong, and is
>meant to balance the various classes a bit.
I don't think that holds true for the Samurai. I mean, you have a powerful
class that gets as its artifact an amazing weapon.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
|Jon Gordon | |
|gor...@acpub.duke.edu | "Into the mud, scum queen!" |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Boudewijn Wayers
>I know that. But I am too lazy to use g most of the time. I still
>think you should not walk onto a trap without being prompted.
If you start asking for confirmation for everything, you might as well
have the game ask you
"Really attack the floating eye?"
or even
"Your calculated chance of survival in hand-to-hand fight is 56% -- more --"
"Really attack the golden naga (N/y)?"
Come on! Just watch your step.
Boudewijn.
--
True or False, but they say that...
They say that throwing glass gems is the same as throwing rocks. (T)
A visit to the Zoo is very educational; you meet interesting animals. (F)
They say that in the dungeon moon rocks are really dilithium crystals. (F)
Topi Ylinen
Boudewijn Wayers <ded...@wsintt12.info.win.tue.nl> wrote:
>gor...@acpub.duke.edu (Jon Gordon) writes:
>
>>In article <2m4344$b...@wsintt12.info.win.tue.nl> ded...@wsintt12.info.win.tue.nl (Boudewijn Wayers) writes:
>
>>>Some of them are deliberately weak, compared to other ones. This is
>>>mainly when the corresponding class is already quite strong, and is
>>>meant to balance the various classes a bit.
>
>>I don't think that holds true for the Samurai. I mean, you have a powerful
>>class that gets as its artifact an amazing weapon.
>
>a two-hander. I personally prefer to wield a Shield of Reflection.
Tsurugi also has one VERY major drawback. Since it's a quest artifact it
can also be STOLEN by the wiz! Last time I played a samurai, the Wiz surrounded
me with monsters, then... stole my Tsurugi of Muramasa (which I was
*wielding*!!!) and I was bashing the monsters empty-handed :-(
I will never again rely on the Tsurugi. Piece of crap, if you ask me. The
Vorpal Blade doesn't do as much raw damage, but definitely beats the tsurugi
in *every other respect*.
<Topi Ylinen = f1t...@kielo.uta.fi>
**************************************************************
* One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, *
* One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them. *
**************************************************************
"WHOA, THERE!
In Yaquinto's Beachhead, infantry units using nothing more than small arms can
pin a tank, preventing it from moving or firing for a turn..." (MURPHY'S RULES)
Helge Hafting
a pile of rust?) This might make it too easy to get rid of cursed
iron items, but dissolving may either be prevented by the curse,
or the player would still be wielding/wearing a generic pile/piece of rust.
A piece of rust would perhaps have the same uses as a rock, i.e. a
thrown weapon.
Eggs should damage sliver. The monsters could be modified to throw eggs
as well as darts. You would then need to re-polish your silver shield
with your towel and a suitable potion.
Carrying a mirror could have a very small chance of reflecting just
like the shield. wielding the mirror would increase the chance
significantly, but you would be effectively unarmed.
Hitting something would break the mirror immediately.
Breaking a mirror could produce some white glass gems.
Ripping a hawaiian shirt to pieces might produce a towel.
I would like to be able to fire a wand at any point within reach, not
just 8 directions. This would make it necessary to re-shape shops so that
a shopkeeper won't be killed too easily.
-------- Note the three pieces of interior wall that the shopkeeper hide
| %%%%| behind. The extra door is necessary so you don't zap him
| |%%%%| from the NW corner of the shop, when the shop is large.
+@+%%%%| The smallest possible shop would be 3x3 (interior) with 3 items for
| |%%%%| sale. The door can still be at any position on any wall.
--------
Helge
The Vanishing Valor
(even if the alter is in the Valley or in Gehennom itself).
The Vanishing Valor
Joseph D. Neff
>wielding the mirror would increase the chance [of reflection]
>significantly, but you would be effectively unarmed.
>Hitting something would break the mirror immediately.
>Breaking a mirror could produce some white glass gems.
And cause 7 points of negative luck! How about it, great and glorious
dev team, who live to confound us mere mortals?
-Joe
--
Joe Neff, aka jn...@eniac.seas.upenn.edu
Beckett & Calavicci '96: Putting right what went wrong.
Bart Lidofsky
DU>Losing a character to lava, water, etc. by hitting the wrong key is
DU>incredibly frustrating, and it's not even the sort of mistake you
DU>learn from.
There IS such a mechanism. BEFORE going down to any level, save the
game, copy the save file, and restore the game. If you die unfairly on
the next level (through a stray keystroke, the game crashing, forgetting
to take off your blindfold when stepping over a cockatrice corpse, not
noticing that you're starving to death, etc; I define dieing unfairly as
any death which would not have occurred had you really been the
character down there) you restore from the save file. Note that, this
way, you cannot take advantage of premature knowledge of the level, as
the level will be different when you go down the new time.
Bart
---
ş DeLuxeı/386 1.25 #2353 ş Individualists of the world: UNITE!
Boudewijn Wayers
>Carrying a mirror could have a very small chance of reflecting just
>like the shield. wielding the mirror would increase the chance
>significantly, but you would be effectively unarmed.
Carrying a non-magical object should never affect anything, because
it's supposed to be tucked away in your backpack. You should be able to
(w)ear it though (not (W)ield it), I guess, instead of a shield.
>Hitting something would break the mirror immediately.
>Breaking a mirror could produce some white glass gems.
Agreed. In case you didn't know it, though: breaking a mirror
SIGNIFICANTLY decreases your luck.
>Ripping a hawaiian shirt to pieces might produce a towel.
No, you need a different type of cloth to make a towel. Just plain
T-shirt cloth won't do for a towel. It would be nice if you could apply
a T-shirt to wrap it around your head, though. T-shirts aren't that
common, so I guess it wouldn't be too unbalancing.
>I would like to be able to fire a wand at any point within reach, not
>just 8 directions. This would make it necessary to re-shape shops so that
>a shopkeeper won't be killed too easily.
This is still in the dev team's wish list, I have heard, but it is
probably not very easy to implement.
>-------- Note the three pieces of interior wall that the shopkeeper hide
>| %%%%| behind. The extra door is necessary so you don't zap him
>| |%%%%| from the NW corner of the shop, when the shop is large.
>+@+%%%%| The smallest possible shop would be 3x3 (interior) with 3 items for
>| |%%%%| sale. The door can still be at any position on any wall.
>--------
This wouldn't protect him. You could still have the wand's effect
BOUNCE to him.
Boudewijn.
--
True or False, but they say that...
Your dog knows what to eat; maybe you should take lessons. (T)
They say that you will never get healthy by eating geckos. (T)
Only real trappers escape traps. (F)
Boudewijn Wayers
>In article <2ma3gm$l...@ugle.unit.no> haf...@Lise.Unit.NO (Helge Hafting) writes:
>>Breaking a mirror could produce some white glass gems.
>And cause 7 points of negative luck! How about it, great and glorious
>dev team, who live to confound us mere mortals?
Currently, breaking a mirror only causes your luck to be decreased by 2
points, not 7.
Satoshi ASAMI
armor, shield, helmet, gloves, shoes, cloak, T-shirts, did I leave
anything out)? It seems highly illogical to me that a pair of Nike
would get polymorphed into a polished diamond shield!
Also, what about more new items....a baseball cap (makes you throw
things better), sexy underwear (increases chance to have successful
enchounter with incubi/succubi), a guitar (if your charisma is high
enough, you can play an anti-war song and calm down soldiers or even
turn them to their captain), tickin' time bomb (specify an amount of
time and leave it on the ground, and it will explode later), a hand
grenade (explodes where it lands), a teddy bear (throw it to a nymph
and she will fall asleep with it for a while), potion of coke/coffee
(makes you sleep resistant for a while), Rubik's cube (throw it to
science types, i.e., quantum mechanics, and they'll be busy solving
it), oxygen tanks (lets you breathe for a certain amount of time under
water)....
Satoshi
Roger Sumner
(Actually, I find it far more annoying than it would seem to warrant.)
When you have completely identified an object by other means than an
ID spell (ie you know it's a scroll of genocide 'cause you just read
another one, and you've dropped it on an altar to find out it's
uncursed or whatever), the identify interface still prompts you on
that item.
This also happens on objects that are ID'd because you started with
them!
I'm always losing ID's because I miskey when it asks me if I want to
ID an item that I know everything about. Grrrr.
--
ro...@csi.on.ca (Roger Sumner)
The above opinions were beamed into my brain by alien telepaths.
I used to suspect the Russians, but they don't have the funding
for that kind of thing anymore.
John Novak
>What about polymorphing an armor to the same type of armor (body
>armor, shield, helmet, gloves, shoes, cloak, T-shirts, did I leave
>anything out)? It seems highly illogical to me that a pair of Nike
>would get polymorphed into a polished diamond shield!
I thought that's what polymorphing _did_-- change one thing to
another...!
(Me? Polyphile? Only when I have a stack of thirty useless
items, and a big wand of polymorphing...)
>Also, what about more new items....a baseball cap (makes you throw
>things better), sexy underwear (increases chance to have successful
>enchounter with incubi/succubi),
<SNORT>
I have this image of a tourist with nothing but a tourist shirt
and underwear on. Can you... enchant the underwear? If a
shopkeeper is the opposite sex, will it act to enhance your
charisma? Can it be cursed for the opposite effect? Will it
drive nymphs crazy?
This looks like _exactly_ the kind of screwball idea that will be
accepted.
I love it-- someone has to do this...
(I'd do it myself, but my coding ability is... small. Very
small.)
[Remaining excellent ideas deleted for brevity's sake.]
Marcus P Hertlein
into this one:
New feature idea: How about if large, strong monsters, like giants,
could, as attack method, pick you up and throw you ?
You would fly in a particular direction and land a few squares away (or
on a wall), kinda like when you levitate and kick, plus damage points.
Except you could land in pools of water, lava, or other nasty places. This
could make things more complicated (Valk quest might be tough with all that
lava around), but you might get out of a ring of 8 monsters encircling you.
What do you think?
Satoshi ASAMI
j...@cegt201.bradley.edu (John Novak) writes:
* In <ASAMI.94M...@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu>
as...@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi ASAMI) writes:
* >What about polymorphing an armor to the same type of armor (body
* >armor, shield, helmet, gloves, shoes, cloak, T-shirts, did I leave
* >anything out)? It seems highly illogical to me that a pair of Nike
* >would get polymorphed into a polished diamond shield!
*
* I thought that's what polymorphing _did_-- change one thing to
* another...!
Well, since scrolls change to scrolls and potions change to potions,
it seemed more logical to me if a shield changes to a shield. Just a
thought.
* <SNORT>
* I have this image of a tourist with nothing but a tourist shirt
* and underwear on. Can you... enchant the underwear? If a
* shopkeeper is the opposite sex, will it act to enhance your
* charisma? Can it be cursed for the opposite effect? Will it
* drive nymphs crazy?
Maybe, if the underwear is visible (i.e., no body armor), it should
affect the price (like the Hawaiian shirt). We need more female
shopkeepers too to balance the game.
Actually, it makes me chuckle to imagine how the players look like
right now....well, let me see, the Tourist is wearing a Hawaiian shirt
and...nothing else. And a Valk is wearing a small shield
and...nothing else. Yumm. ;)
Satoshi
Satoshi ASAMI
hert...@racine.ccs.itd.umich.edu (Marcus P Hertlein) writes:
* You would fly in a particular direction and land a few squares away (or
* on a wall), kinda like when you levitate and kick, plus damage points.
* Except you could land in pools of water, lava, or other nasty places. This
* could make things more complicated (Valk quest might be tough with all that
* lava around), but you might get out of a ring of 8 monsters encircling you.
Landing into lava or ponds is too nasty. At least allow one round for
the player to put on levitating rings.
The fire giant picks you up!
P) Which ring? qSV*?) q <= player's turn
You feel your body losing weight!
The fire giant throws you! -more-
You see molten lava below you.
Satoshi
T. M. Cuffel
Roger Sumner <ro...@csi.on.ca> wrote:
>
>I'm always losing ID's because I miskey when it asks me if I want to
>ID an item that I know everything about. Grrrr.
Are you sure you know everything? Depending on the item, there is
what it is, blessed/cursed, level of enchantment, charges, whether it is
an artifact, etc.
If an ID scroll told you "That item is already identified!" you would
be getting information for free. And nothing is free in nethack.
--
T. M. Cuffel "So do you have any experience watching children?"
"Only from my car."
-Some TV show
Aaron Ranta
Satoshi ASAMI <as...@cs.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
>Actually, it makes me chuckle to imagine how the players look like
>right now....well, let me see, the Tourist is wearing a Hawaiian shirt
>and...nothing else. And a Valk is wearing a small shield
>and...nothing else. Yumm. ;)
>
Before you picture it.. perhaps you should consider what a Valkyries
starting charisma tends to be.... Maybe you'll reconsider. =)
A
Jukka S Lahtinen
> There IS such a mechanism. BEFORE going down to any level, save the
>game, copy the save file, and restore the game. If you die unfairly on
>the next level (through a stray keystroke, the game crashing, forgetting
>to take off your blindfold when stepping over a cockatrice corpse, not
The procedure you described can be described with one word: cheating.
(Unless the reason is the game crashing, that's the only situation where I
don't consider savefile copying cheating..)
J Michael Hammond
>Actually, it makes me chuckle to imagine how the players look like
>right now....well, let me see, the Tourist is wearing a Hawaiian shirt
>and...nothing else. And a Valk is wearing a small shield
>and...nothing else. Yumm. ;)
Aaron Ranta responds:
>Before you picture it.. perhaps you should consider what a Valkyries
>starting charisma tends to be.... Maybe you'll reconsider. =)
Right, so now we're considering a potentially beautiful but completely
pusillanimous Valkyrie running around nekkid (as Joe Bob Briggs would
say). What's the problem?
Ever since ol' E. Gary first put "charisma" into D&D, it's been very
carefully defined as "force of personality", not "personal beauty."
Let Mr. Asami fantasize if he wants.
--JMike
Tero Laiho
: In article <2lpon7...@vttux1.vtt.fi> la...@vtt.fi (Tero Laiho) writes:
: >
: >I would add save restore routines with an ability
: >for multible saves.
: >
: >
: It's an interesting idea except that a) tradition hackers would consider
: it cheating b) a near finished game goes nearly 1Mb for a save game. c)
: it's just really not what the game is about.
: Allan
Thank you for your answers. I have wondered why save/restore is not
implemented and now I have the traditional answers.
And now my opinions.
a) Tradition hackers could be protected from this cheating by not
saving and restoring. No one has to use save/restore. If this is
considered too lenient the restores could be made available only
if the appropriate flag is selected at the command line. The other
means for discouraging unnecessary restores could be an score penalty
for each restore.
It could be said that explore mode or wizard mode make save/restore
useless but they cater for different tastes. For example if my hacker
stumbles to no win situation with vastly superior force she could
end up dying 1-n times. But with the save/restore she could die a
clean death and face the same danger again forewarned and forearmed.
b) 1 Mb for saving space is no graet problem in the new PC.
c) I don't understand this argument. But on the other hand
I haven't been playing NH more than a year so I speak from
the viewpoint of someone who has get used to Underworld type
games.
Tero Laiho
: j...@cegt201.bradley.edu (John Novak) writes:
: >o Make the quest artifacts a little more useful. Some of
: >them seem generically useless. A nice touch would be making them
: >undamageable and weightless. If I have to go through the damned
: >quest in the first place (along with waiting to achieve 14th
: >level-- I recently died from loitering while trying to gain that
: >last annoying level) itd be nice to have good toy at the end.
: Some of them are deliberately weak, compared to other ones. This is
: mainly when the corresponding class is already quite strong, and is
: meant to balance the various classes a bit.
Much more useful would be an ability to make normal items special
in more ways than plusses and belssed.
There could be scrolls of item enchantment which could give the
items properties like searching, levitation etc.
I would also make all y/n questions default to safe answers.
Like: keep on eating y/n (y)
All the instant deaths should be changed to more gradual ones.
So that the petrification would be Dex drain
lethal would be hit point drain
drowning would be hit point drain
sickness would be slow hit point drain
with an inability to natural healing.
Satoshi ASAMI
* And now my opinions.
*
* a) Tradition hackers could be protected from this cheating by not
* saving and restoring. No one has to use save/restore. If this is
* considered too lenient the restores could be made available only
* if the appropriate flag is selected at the command line. The other
* means for discouraging unnecessary restores could be an score penalty
* for each restore.
*
* It could be said that explore mode or wizard mode make save/restore
* useless but they cater for different tastes. For example if my hacker
* stumbles to no win situation with vastly superior force she could
* end up dying 1-n times. But with the save/restore she could die a
* clean death and face the same danger again forewarned and forearmed.
All my opinions, not meant to be a flame.
Save/restore is fine for salvaging crashed games, but not for anything
else. Save/restore is too powerful because:
(1) One of the biggest challenges of the game is to identify items
properly, so if you go back to your save file, you have in effect
identified your item(s) in your pack. And the reward is greater
for items with more risk. This balance will be upset if the user
can undo her reading a cursed scroll of genocide.
(2) The inherent randomness in thrones and stuff will be upset too.
The greater the reward (genocide, wish, etc.), the greater the
risk (getting surrounded by nasties, water demons, etc.).
(3) The essense of the game is unfair and quick deaths. :) No matter
how much the score penalty is, the lovely "the poison is deadly"
and "you choke on a wraith corpse" messages will lose their
charisma (I love this word) fast in the face of save/restore.
The more you die unfair deaths, the feeling will be greater when
you finally ascend. :)
In short, I think the way the game is designed currently, save/restore
will upset the balance of the game too much. If you get stuck in a
no-win situation, you learn from your mistake and add one more thing
in mind when you prepare your character next time. That's why we have
powerful items such as genocide, Elbereth, etc.
---
Satoshi the Hacker St:10 Dx:17 Co:12 In:9 Wi:10 Ch:3 Chaotic
Dlvl:1 $:15 HP:16(16) Pw:1(1) AC:10 Xp:1/0 T:1
Warwick Allison
If development is always feature-driven, the game will deterioirate.
You may think you would love a Ring Of Immortality and a Sword Of Death,
but ask a Highlander if they find life interesting.
--
Warwick
Bart Lidofsky
>game, copy the save file, and restore the game. If you die unfairly on
>the next level (through a stray keystroke, the game crashing, forgetting
>to take off your blindfold when stepping over a cockatrice corpse, not
JI>The procedure you described can be described with one word: cheating.
JI>(Unless the reason is the game crashing, that's the only situation
JI>where I don't consider savefile copying cheating..)
I consider recovery from any death due to hardware or software
problems to be not cheating. That includes bugs in the program. We
may, however, disagree on what a bug is. For me, the game makes too
many assumptions about what I want to do. I have two choices: Either
rewrite the game as to not make these assumptions, or treat these
assumptions as software bugs. For example, if I hit a floating eye
because I think I can kill it with one swipe, and I don't, that's my
problem. But, if I run into a floating eye because I didn't see it,
then it should not be able to freeze me, because it can only freeze you
if you see it. If it does, then, as far as I'm concerned, THAT'S a
software bug.
Bart
---
ş DeLuxeı/386 1.25 #2353 ş This tagline Copyright 1994 by Bart Lidofsky
Topi Linkala
: In article <roger.7...@csi2.csi.on.ca>,
: Roger Sumner <ro...@csi.on.ca> wrote:
: >
: >I'm always losing ID's because I miskey when it asks me if I want to
: >ID an item that I know everything about. Grrrr.
: Are you sure you know everything? Depending on the item, there is
: what it is, blessed/cursed, level of enchantment, charges, whether it is
: an artifact, etc.
Yes I Know!
The items you start with (for example blessed stetoschope for a healer) is
fully identified, but the ident flag is not set => idetify will ask you if
you want to ident the stetoschope!
So the code with idents the items in starting backpack should raise the ident
flag in that case.
Topi Linkala
Or why not raise the constitution of character that gets disintegration
resistance automatically to 18 (You feel firm.)
Roger Christman
(Matthias Kring) says:
>
>
>I remember...
>In the early days of Hack, the minotaur was the only one who could
>provide you with a wand of digging. And this was really needed,
>because pick-axes were rare, and the amulet was hidden under some boulder
>in a dead end...
I for one sure wouldn't mind seeing the digging wands become extremely
rare. I find that everytime I find one, I have to zap it out so noone
comes by to make holes in the floor. One (possibly rechargeable)
digging wand for the entire game would be plenty enough for me.
Maybe these dwarves would hang around a bit longer then.
Roger Christman
Aaron Mandelbaum
>In <CMptz...@dscomsa.desy.de> paw...@zeubac.desy.de (Jerzy Michal Pawlak)
>writes:
>>Well, I already told it several times. Intelligent hackers have no problem
>>with them. Less intelligent but patient ones map them and get through.
>>And those impatient - well, have no qualification to become winners :-)
>>And: mazes are 'traditional' since HACK - I'll be first to protest if someone
>>comes up with a game without any mazes and calls it 'nethack' :-)
>I know you've said it several times. I just haven't happened to
>agree with you any of those times. If I want an excercise in
>boredom, I'll go spill salt and put it back in the shaker without
>taking the cap off.
>I'd like a challenge, yes, but not one of patience in that sense.
I don't see what's so bad about the mazes, I mean they give you unlimited
wands of digging. I just pretend they're open space :)
--
Aaron Mandelbaum
Roger Christman
>
>Aaron Ranta (a...@u.washington.edu) wrote:
>: Satoshi ASAMI <as...@cs.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>: >
>: >Actually, it makes me chuckle to imagine how the players look like
>: >right now....well, let me see, the Tourist is wearing a Hawaiian shirt
>: >and...nothing else. And a Valk is wearing a small shield
>: >and...nothing else. Yumm. ;)
>: >
>
>: Before you picture it.. perhaps you should consider what a Valkyries
>: starting charisma tends to be.... Maybe you'll reconsider. =)
>
>see for a looooong time...:-)
I don't know about you, but I see quite a few nymphs here and
there. Then there's the occasional female dwarf or hobbit,
and the succubi. Of course, there's also that ugly gal on the
level right above the castle...
If I'm not mistaken erinyes and mariliths are also female-looking.
Roger Christman
Boudewijn Wayers
>if I run into a floating eye because I didn't see it,
>then it should not be able to freeze me, because it can only freeze you
>if you see it. If it does, then, as far as I'm concerned, THAT'S a
>software bug.
If you cannot see a floating eye, it will NEVER freeze you. So what
exactly do you mean by "If it does, ..." ?
Boudewijn.
--
True or False, but they say that...
They say that a large dog named Lassie will lead you to the amulet. (F)
They say that a plumed hat could be a previously used crested helmet. (F)
They say that Medusa would make a terrible pet. (F)
Boudewijn Wayers
>: The procedure you described can be described with one word: cheating.
>: (Unless the reason is the game crashing, that's the only situation where I
>: don't consider savefile copying cheating..)
>Why is the save/restore described as cheating?
>In nearly every other adventure roleplaying game I know
>the save/restore is estableshed feature.
>I know I have asked this question many times during the
>past months. But I still gotten an answer.
Because MetHack is a game that can be played by multiple players at
once, it would be cheating when you could just backup your save file
and restore it when not everything went according to plan. I compiled
Nethack myself on my own unix account, and allow everyone to make
backups and reinstall them (I can do it myself, so why deny it to
others?). As long as EVERYONE can do it, I don't see any problems with
it. For now, though, noone seems to use this possibility here.
The only thing that you shouldn't try when everyone can save-restore,
is to have an "honest" record file.
--
True or False, but they say that...
They say that you should name your dog Spuds to have a cool pet. (F)
A candelabrum affixed with seven candles shows the way with a magical light. (T)
They say that a dwarf lord can carry a pick-axe because his armor is light. (F)
Marc Ishii
|> Rob Broekhuis (king...@garnet.berkeley.edu) wrote:
|> > But ya can't kick stuff outta (spiked) pits. And, especially in the mines,
|> > there's always a coupla gnomes&stuff in those.
|> > Rob
|> Once you're in them (you _will_ get in them, I'm sure) pick up the stuff
|> and drop it somewhere else.
|>
|> --
|> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> GAT -d+ -p+ c++++ @l+(+++) u+ e@ m+@ s-/- !n h f-(+/?)@ !g w+++ t@
|> r-(+++)@ !y@
|> "Only those lacking the phantasy escape to reality" --- Anonymous
|> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unless, of course, it's a cursed grey stone :-P
Beavis the Barbarian
and his faithful dog Butthead
(Uhhh...huh huh that wuz *cool*!)
Ralf Kupfer
: Roger Christman
Of course, you're right.
But see, according to norse mythology, valkyries were to guide
the spirits of the fallen warriors from the battlefield to Walhalla.
And in every painting/picture I have seen that shows such a scene,
the valkyries were blond, long-haired, PRETTY young women...
So why bother with those female dwarfs...:-)
Did I mention that I usually play valkyries...?
BTW, erinyes definitely are female (at least in mythology, I'm
not sure about NetHack); but mariliths...I don't know.
Ralph
Roger Christman
(Dionisius) says:
>
>Topi Linkala (link...@ofelia.atkk.ptl.fi) wrote:
>> Why not have item(s) that boost your constitution.
>to alt.sources) I have included a ring of health, doing exactly
>that.
I guess this just makes me wonder if such an item would be Too
flexible for this game. After all, when do we use this items of
gain ability?
Ring of Strength / Gauntlets of Power
influence your fighting ability and carrying capacity,
so you tend to use them continuously
Gauntlets of Dexterity
Influence your combat ability, so also used rather continuously
Besides, the DEX bonus is an AC bonus as well.
Helm of Brilliance
For Int/Wis, really helps the spell-casters. They'll wear it
continuously. Those who don't use spells might wear it anyway
since it gives a boost to AC as well as stats. Therefore,
used continously.
Ring of Adornment
Our nice little Charisma object. You keep it around for all
those nymphs and _cubi, and maybe for shops as well. Since CHA
is applicable in only certain places, you don't need the ring
all the time.
So how is this Ring of Health any different? Here's how I see it.
The Number One bonus for having a good constitution is Hit Points.
Each time you gain a level, the number of additional Hit Points you
get is modified by your Constitution at that time. Barring things
like sickness and Pestilence and Drain Levels, those Hit points are
yours to keep.
The proposed Ring of Health would probably lead to an abuse or bug
in the following manner.
Every time Og sees that he's about to gain a level (either via
XP, PoGL, or Wraith), he swaps his Ring Fingers around for
a Ring of Health or two.
Og then takes his levels, gets his bonus hitpoints.
Og then switches back to his normal set of rings, and keeps
his HP bonus!
In other words, you would get a continuous stat benefit from a ring
that you don't wear continuously. This would be a 'feature' which
is not supported by Any of the other stat-boosting items.
Now, I could hear people replying that all you have to do is adjust
the player's hitpoints every time he puts the ring on and takes it off.
I think that would involve a good deal more book-keeping than would
be feasible in this game, to wit:
Tifli started with a Con of 9, but through lots of Exercise
managed to raise it to 16, gaining HP bonuses as appropriate
whenever he gained a level. Now Tifli finds a Ring of Health +2,
which right now would give him an 18 Con.
If Tifli puts this ring on, how many Hitpoints does he get?
Level*[ (Bonus for 18) - (Bonus for 16)] ?
I don't think so. Since that would give him more HP than
he would've had from wearing the ring for his entire career!
(Con 11 gives no more a bonus than Con of 9)
Or do you record what Tifli's Con was for each level he advanced,
and then adjust the total accordingly?
I don't really think that this Ring of Health would really add to
the game without unbalancing it. In one implementation, characters
would be able to benefit from the Ring even when they aren't wearing
it. In the other, it would just be a boost to HP only when you are
wearing the ring; you'd get the same effect from a Potion of Extra
Healing or two.
Roger Christman
Boudewijn Wayers
>the valkyries were blond, long-haired, PRETTY young women...
>So why bother with those female dwarfs...:-)
>not sure about NetHack); but mariliths...I don't know.
The following creatures are ALWAYS female:
Chromatic Dragon, Elwing, Medusa, Norn, cavewoman, erinyes, killer bee,
marilith, mountain nymph, oracle, priestess, queen bee, succubus,
succubus, valkyrie, water nymph, wood nymph.
The following are ALWAYS male:
Ashikaga Takauji, Asmodeus, Baalzebub, Cerberus, Charon, Croesus,
Cyclops, Demogorgon, Dispater, Earendil, Elvenking, Geryon, Goblin
King, Hippocrates, Juiblex, Keystone Kop, King Arthur, Kop Kaptain, Kop
Lieutenant, Kop Sergeant, Lord Carnarvon, Lord Sato, Lord Surtur,
Master of Thieves, Nazgul, Orcus, Shaman Karnov, Twoflower, Vlad the
Impaler, Wizard of Yendor, Yeenoghu, caveman, dwarf king, dwarf lord,
elf-lord, gnome king, gnome lord, incubus, incubus, kobold lord, ogre
king, ogre lord, priest, vampire lord.
All other creatures can be either male or female.
Boudewijn.
--
True or False, but they say that...
They say that the unicorn horn rule is if it ain't broke then don't fix it. (T)
They say that good things come to those that wait. (F)
The Leprechaun Gold Tru$t is no division of the Magic Memory Vault. (T)
Dave Ripton
>In nearly every other adventure roleplaying game I know
>the save/restore is estableshed feature.
>I know I have asked this question many times during the
>past months. But I still gotten an answer.
1. You don't _need_ to do it to win. It makes it much easier. Diminished
challenges mean diminished enjoyment in the long term, IMO.
2. NetHack is meant to be played many times, winning occasionally.
Most of these other games are meant to be played all the way through
only once, and would be _tedious_ to redo.
3. On multiplayer systems, there's competition for the high score, and
the game is set up _not_ to allow this behavior. It's unfair for
one person to save and restore and for others to be denied the
privilege.
4. The beginning of the game is the fun part IMO. Once you're 20th level
and well-equipped, all the games seem pretty much the same. The game
would get boring if you always started there.
But do what you think is fun on your own machine. That's the spirit of
Hack. Mess around with the code to make it easier or harder or to add
more funny messages. But doing this on a multiuser system, or reporting
a bogus ascension gained under "house rules," somehow doesn't seem right.
(I've got to add that "The Vorpal Blade goes snicker-snack" message to
my copy, and disable wishing for quest artifacts. Maybe this weekend...
Dave Ripton
Satoshi ASAMI
In article <2mu9jt...@vttux1.vtt.fi> la...@vtt.fi (Tero Laiho) writes:
* Why is the save/restore described as cheating?
* In nearly every other adventure roleplaying game I know
* the save/restore is estableshed feature.
* I know I have asked this question many times during the
* past months. But I still gotten an answer.
You then obviously haven't read my reply to *your* question a while
ago. In nethack, (1) identifying items and (2) random effects from
thrones/fountains/etc. are two fun parts. With save/restore, they
will be completely ruined.
Satoshi
Aaron Mandelbaum
>In article <adm4.239...@po.cwru.edu>, ad...@po.cwru.edu (Aaron
>Mandelbaum) writes:
>>I think he means when you run down a corridor, you always hit a monster in
>>it once before you stop, rather than stopping as soon as you see it.
>>If it happens to be a floating eye, you get frozen.
>>That is an annoying bug.
>No, that's a feature. Don't use auto-repeat, watch you steps. Use light
>sources in corridors...
You call THAT a feature? I think any auto-repeat command should have the
same drawbacks and advantages as key-by-key... they're there to make it
less tedious, not easier or harder.
>-- >Michal (paw...@zeubac.desy.de)
--
Aaron Mandelbaum
Boudewijn Wayers
>Ring of Strength / Gauntlets of Power
> influence your fighting ability and carrying capacity,
> so you tend to use them continuously
All rings increase your food consumption by a large amount as well, so
I certainly DON'T tend to use them continuously.
>Ring of Adornment
> Our nice little Charisma object. You keep it around for all
> those nymphs and _cubi, and maybe for shops as well. Since CHA
> is applicable in only certain places, you don't need the ring
> all the time.
Again, eats too much food as far as I'm concerned., Addmitted, you
don't wear this one all the time.
>In other words, you would get a continuous stat benefit from a ring
>that you don't wear continuously. This would be a 'feature' which
>is not supported by Any of the other stat-boosting items.
Agreed. A ring of Health would be a bad idea, unless of course the
extra HP would disappear when you put it off again.
> If Tifli puts this ring on, how many Hitpoints does he get?
> Level*[ (Bonus for 18) - (Bonus for 16)] ?
> I don't think so. Since that would give him more HP than
>he would've had from wearing the ring for his entire career!
>(Con 11 gives no more a bonus than Con of 9)
> Or do you record what Tifli's Con was for each level he advanced,
>and then adjust the total accordingly?
[ more deleted ]
This "problem" is solved very well in moria. In moria, there used to be
this bug, where, when you finally had a good constitution, you would go
to a grape jelly (one of the monsters that would inflict NO HP damage,
but WOULD lower your level), have your level lowered to 1, then quaff a
potion of restore level, and *POOF* your HP were calculated according
to your NEW constitution, thus on the average doubling your HP. Now, HP
are adjusted EVERY TIME your con goes up (when it gets to 15, 1 HP is
added for every level you possess, at 16, another is added, and if you
are a single-class fighter, another one af 17 and 18). I don't see the
problem with this in NetHack. It could be handled the same.
>I don't really think that this Ring of Health would really add to
>the game without unbalancing it. In one implementation, characters
>would be able to benefit from the Ring even when they aren't wearing
>it. In the other, it would just be a boost to HP only when you are
>wearing the ring; you'd get the same effect from a Potion of Extra
>Healing or two.
The benefit would indeed be the same, only, the pootion would be
permanent, while you could use the ring for emergencies, since it
wouldn't disappear after use.
Boudewijn.
--
True or False, but they say that...
They say that some eggs could hatch in your pack, lucky or not. (T)
Beware of the potion of nitroglycerin -- it's not for the weak of heart. (F)
They say that finding a winning strategy is a deliberate move on your part. (F)
Bart Lidofsky
>then it should not be able to freeze me, because it can only freeze you
>if you see it. If it does, then, as far as I'm concerned, THAT'S a
>software bug.
BW>If you cannot see a floating eye, it will NEVER freeze you. So what
BW>exactly do you mean by "If it does, ..." ?
I mean that even though I don't see it, my character automatically
does.
Bart
---
ş DeLuxeı/386 1.25 #2353 ş Monolith Mall: My god! It's full of stores!
Bryan Butler
>Roger Christman <D...@psuvm.psu.edu> writes:
>
>>Ring of Strength / Gauntlets of Power
>> influence your fighting ability and carrying capacity,
>> so you tend to use them continuously
>
>All rings increase your food consumption by a large amount as well, so
>I certainly DON'T tend to use them continuously.
>
>>Ring of Adornment
>> Our nice little Charisma object. You keep it around for all
>> those nymphs and _cubi, and maybe for shops as well. Since CHA
>> is applicable in only certain places, you don't need the ring
>> all the time.
>
>Again, eats too much food as far as I'm concerned., Addmitted, you
>don't wear this one all the time.
>
not all rings cause your food consumption to increase. here's
a quick guide:
ring effects on eating/hunger:
normally, you decrement your nutrition counter once each turn. when
wearing certain types of rings, this rate increases. when wearing
a ring of hunger, conflict or regeneration, your nutrition counter
is additionally decremented every other turn (i.e. you hunger at 1.5
times the normal rate). this is prevented in the case of a
regeneration ring by wielding or carrying the right artifact. also,
each worn ring which can be charged _and_ has a charge > 0 cause the
nutrition counter to be decremented additionally every 20 turns.
so, if you're wearing two charged rings, you hunger at only 1.1 times
the normal rate. rings which can't be charged, and aren't hunger,
conflict, or regeneration don't affect your food consumption rate in
any way.
-bryan
but...@cluster.gps.caltech.edu, or butl...@caltech.edu
"Just because it's been published, doesn't mean it's right."
Tom Palfrey to Mr. Schmidts before his thesis defense.
Jonathan Ellis
>
>I guess this just makes me wonder if such an item would be Too
>flexible for this game. After all, when do we use this items of
>gain ability?
>
with that do something similar to this, also have cutoffs. Note that even
in nethack, wearing a +2 ring of strength does you very little good when
you have, say, 18/01. (Or am I wrong?) The alternative, of course, is to
use a smaller quantum of strength. Hey, we could have people with strength
13 3/4, which would be greater than 13 1/2 ... gain ability potions' effects
would be to some extent random in how much they raised them, and to some extent
depend on blessed/cursed status.
Hey, the more I think about it, the more I like it!
>I don't really think that this Ring of Health would really add to
>the game without unbalancing it. In one implementation, characters
>would be able to benefit from the Ring even when they aren't wearing
>it. In the other, it would just be a boost to HP only when you are
>wearing the ring; you'd get the same effect from a Potion of Extra
>Healing or two.
>
Again, so what? I can't wear my rings of teleport control, regener-
ation, increase damage +7, and conflict all at the same time. These are
the choices we have to make.
The objection I'd agree most with is that people have enough hit points
as it is. Especially barbarians! ;-)
Jonathan Ellis
Rob Broekhuis
>>>it once before you stop, rather than stopping as soon as you see it.
>>>If it happens to be a floating eye, you get frozen.
>>>That is an annoying bug.
>
>>No, that's a feature. Don't use auto-repeat, watch you steps. Use light
>>sources in corridors...
>
>You call THAT a feature? I think any auto-repeat command should have the
>same drawbacks and advantages as key-by-key... they're there to make it
>less tedious, not easier or harder.
Huh? Which auto-repeat command are you using?
I thought that with shift-direction, you did NOT hit a monster ever. At least,
I have never been frozen that way (and believe me, I use it all the time and
have been frozen from self-repeating keys too quickly all too often).
But then, I didn't even realize NH had the g-direction command until last week
when it was discussed here.
Haven't tried that one yet. But in any case, I hold with those who favor
fire. I mean, flaming those who backup/restore.
Rob
--
- I diet on cod-
Balaji
>
> >No, that's a feature. Don't use auto-repeat, watch you steps. Use light
> >sources in corridors...
>
> You call THAT a feature? I think any auto-repeat command should have the
> same drawbacks and advantages as key-by-key... they're there to make it
> less tedious, not easier or harder.
You can use auto-repeat and not step on traps if you use ^H instead of
uppercase H. A lot of unnecessary flaming is being generated on this
silly issue.
--
Balaji
Love, and do what you will.
Marcus P Hertlein
I'd just like a few more comments...
What do you think of the idea of having large monsters be able to pick
you up and throw you? I agree that one shouldn't be able to get thrown
into water or lava (too nasty), but the game would get another interesting
aspect if one could get out of a ring of encircling monsters for the price
of slamming into a wall (some moderate damage), or getting thrown into a
corner.
Topi Linkala
: c) I don't understand this argument. But on the other hand
: I haven't been playing NH more than a year so I speak from
: the viewpoint of someone who has get used to Underworld type
: games.
The main difference between NH and Underworld type games is that NH is always
a new game. If I couldn't save in Underworld it would mean that I have to walk
throught the beginning of the same game over and over. In NH when my character
dies and I start a new game I'm not bored to death because it's a new
challenge.
Martin Gregory
: What do you think of the idea of having large monsters be able to pick
: you up and throw you?
I think that this is an EXCELLENT idea.
The reason I think so is not so much that I want to get picked up an
thrown (though being carried around by a giant might be interesting:
what would the view look like!?)...
Its that I want to be able to pick up my pet!!!
I've always thought that you should be able to do this - its a pretty
obvious thing that one does with one's cat afterall.
: I agree that one shouldn't be able to get thrown
: into water or lava (too nasty)
I disagree completely. If you are going to add this feature, it has
to be `complete`. What earthly rationalisation do you give for not
being able to do it? What message does the player see when he
(polymorphed into a giant) picks up a dwarf and throws him at the water?
"You decide not to throw the dwarf into the water"
I think not.
There is only one hitch: implementation. How do you gt to pick up
a creature when you can't stand in the same space as it?
Martin.
Satoshi ASAMI
hert...@ovid.ccs.itd.umich.edu (Marcus P Hertlein) writes:
* My last idea seemingly generated broad apathy (one reply)
* I'd just like a few more comments...
Sorry, but that one reply was from me, but let me add some more....
* What do you think of the idea of having large monsters be able to pick
* you up and throw you? I agree that one shouldn't be able to get thrown
* into water or lava (too nasty), but the game would get another interesting
* aspect if one could get out of a ring of encircling monsters for the price
* of slamming into a wall (some moderate damage), or getting thrown into a
* corner.
What about
The fire giant picks you up! --more--
a) What do you want to apply?
d) What kind of thing to you want to take out of your bag of holding?
%) 30 food rations (ynaq [n])? y
h - 30 food rations.
You stagger under your load. Movement is very hard. --more--
The fire giant can no longer hold you up! --more--
You squash the fire giant! --more--
The fire giant is destroyed!
:)
Satoshi
Bart Lidofsky
AU> * In nearly every other adventure roleplaying game I know
AU> * the save/restore is estableshed feature.
AU>You then obviously haven't read my reply to *your* question a while
AU>ago. In nethack, (1) identifying items and (2) random effects from
AU>thrones/fountains/etc. are two fun parts. With save/restore, they
AU>will be completely ruined.
That is why I specify that backed up save/restore should only be
used if your death was caused by a bug in the game rather than a player
mistake. When I die from a game bug, I do not look at my items (not
doing so is an option in the PC version), and I only save when I'm about
to enter a new level, so I can't take advantage of knowledge that I got
in my previous existence.
Bart
---
Roger Sumner
A demon named Betty Ford reads a scroll of twelve steps at you and you
get kicked out to DOS for x hours. Do some work. Spend some time with
your cat or your SO or something. Eat.
This program goes OFF my computer. Tonight. After I ascend Delmer the
Elf. He just got to the quest, see, and I just cleaned out Ft. Ludios.
Otherwise I'd kill it right now.
Naturally, I can't erase it until he dies. Naturally.
--
ro...@enterprise.on.ca (Roger Sumner)
"now for most of us, when we hear of a shocking tragedy of this nature,
our natural reaction is extreme sorrow that we were not able to observe
Van Deun Dirk
>How about a detox centre for nethack addicts?
Strangely, the only times I can quit playing for a while (two weeks or
so) is when I have been playing a game that is going so well that it is
starting to be boring, and I haven't reached the mazes yet. After two
weeks (at most) (well, maybe one week ;-), anyway, some days later, I
solemny start up the game, (Q)uit and start a new one. Requiescat in
pace. This is why I only ascend the really difficult characters.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dirk van Deun Student of Classical Philology hw4...@vub.ac.be
Native language: Dutch - Speaks English - Understands French and German
GSS/CS d?(--) -p+(--) c++ l u+ e+ m+ s++(@)/-- n@ h+(*) f+ g++ w@ t+ r(-) y?
The University is not responsible for my mistakes against the English Language
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Sumner
<stuff deleted about picking up monsters, pets and throwing them>
>There is only one hitch: implementation. How do you gt to pick up
>a creature when you can't stand in the same space as it?
Make it an extended command (#lift or something) that is used like the
stethoscope, leash, lockpick, etc.
#lift (direction)
Do you want to pick up the little dog? (y/n)
then it'll record the monster as an item (so you can throw it normally)
with weight equal to the corpse weights.
Give a fairly high probability to pick up a tame monster, and a low
probability that it will squirm out of your grasp each turn. This way you
could pick up your pet fairly easily while it's still small, but it would
always be getting away. You would probably need at least 1 hand free,
too; you can't #lift when you're wielding a weapon and wearing a shield.
For unfriendly monsters and high strength characters, make it a modified
to-hit roll, and give them a free attack or chance to evade or something.
What's the code like for rope golems, etc, grabbing other monsters?
--
ro...@enterprise.on.ca (Roger Sumner)
Nobody but me could hold opinions like these! Even *I* have trouble.
Wow; I'd be perfect if I wasn't so damned modest.
Marcus P Hertlein
>I like features which interact with other features like this.
>
>> I agree that one shouldn't be able to get thrown into water or lava
>
>I like the idea! It means you'd better be more careful around giants
>on levels with lava or pools.
>
The idea of having giants throw you into water should be possible, if it's
implemented right/interestingly.
The reason I sort of excluded this was that it can get too hard to deal with
for lava. Too many things just get destroyed, without you being able to avoid
it, unless you have levitation. (can you die outright on lava?)
Water might be fine. You just might have to drop stuff to get out, like
normally jumping into water. More if you need to (automatically) move
more than one square to get out.
Considering this, it might be possible. I just don't like the idea of yet
another way to die outright without a chance of saving oneself (unless one
has just the right combination of inventory), which might
occur if, say, there are large lava pools around. Major hp damage would
be fine, I think.
Anyway, a normal room with walls to slam into, and many monsters around, was
the situation I thought of when I had the idea. Probably is most interesting
if one isn't supercaveman/supertourist/... yet.
--------------------------------
ObWish: blessed erodeproof burglarproof +3 carrot of invulnerability
blessed shatterproof loadstone of speed
--------------------------------
Michael Edward Chastain
Marcus P Hertlein <hert...@ovid.ccs.itd.umich.edu> wrote:
> What do you think of the idea of having large monsters be able to pick
> you up and throw you?
I think it would add another interesting dimension to the game!
The Wizard of Yendor summons a titan!--more--
The titan picks you up from the staircase!--more--
The titan throws you across the room!--more--
The Wizard of Yendor escapes up the staircase!
I like features which interact with other features like this.
> I agree that one shouldn't be able to get thrown into water or lava
> (too nasty).
I like the idea! It means you'd better be more careful around giants
on levels with lava or pools.
Michael Chastain
m...@shell.portal.com
William Fiske
hert...@racine.ccs.itd.umich.edu (Marcus P Hertlein) wrote:
> In article <CnHyE...@unix.portal.com> m...@shell.portal.com (Michael Edward Chastain) writes:
> >I like features which interact with other features like this.
>
> I agree that one shouldn't be able to get thrown into water or lava
> (too nasty).
Why is it that everyone complains about the latter part of the game being
to easy, but I see people protesting things to make the game harder?
Perhaps to be a bit easier on beginning players you could have only really
strong monsters (Titans, Large-sized Giants, etc.)
___________________________________________________________________________
|/ Aaron Fiske \|/ Dont' be humble, you're not that great -Golda Mier
| E-Mail | On the Internet: Like jumping off a 300-foot cliff
| fi...@k12.brown.edu | without a paddle - Unknown
|\___________________/|\___________________________________________________
NOTE: The view expressed here are not those of William Fiske. He is NOT
writing these letters. (I just use the same accout, i mean he is my father)
Gardner S Trask
run by and club you. "You colapse under your load, screaming 'Why me? Why
me?'"
a thought.
Dionisius
The arguments convince me that it is somewhat powerful (by benefit
without being worn permanently), but this won't convince me to take
it out (perhaps I will adjust probability/price a bit). After all
there are more powerful items (wand of wishing, amulet of life saving)
which nonetheless don't unbalance the game because of their rarity.
Jerzy Michal Pawlak
In article <2nri0u$9...@winx03.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de>, kup...@cip.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de (Ralf Kupfer) writes:
:Gardner S Trask (tr...@world.std.com) wrote:
:: How about a new monster ???? as a xan scratches your boot, a Tonya can
:: me?'"
:
:: a thought.
:I like it, I like it...:-)
Oh, come on boys. In a year from now nobody will remember what a Tonya was...
Don't load the nice game with crap...
--
Michal (paw...@zeubac.desy.de)
Ralf Kupfer
Maybe, maybe...on the other hand, I'm not sure at all that everybody knows
what valkyries are, or what those named quantum mechanics refer to and so
on and so on...Just another joke for insiders, as I see it.
Ralph
Ds. Julian Birch
Ralf Kupfer <kup...@cip.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de> wrote:
>Jerzy Michal Pawlak (paw...@zeubac.desy.de) wrote:
>: Oh, come on boys. In a year from now nobody will remember what a Tonya was...
>: Don't load the nice game with crap...
>what valkyries are, or what those named quantum mechanics refer to and so
>on and so on...Just another joke for insiders, as I see it.
Well, apart from the fact that they appear to have lost their names in
the new version (what are they doing there at all anymore?) the fact
remains that this is the sort of joke that people are going to find as
funny in thirty years time. Besides, if you don't know what a valkyrie
is, you should perhaps be getting a life rather than playing nethack.
8-)
Julian.
--
For my curriculum vitae, type finger jm...@hermes.cam.ac.uk
Jonathan Ellis
familiar with them for centuries. A "Tonya" is not, and never will be,
something that people will remember for centuries. Quantum mechanics are.
Jonathan Ellis
Mills / Allan William (ISE)
>
><stuff deleted about picking up monsters, pets and throwing them>
>
>>There is only one hitch: implementation. How do you gt to pick up
>>a creature when you can't stand in the same space as it?
>
>Make it an extended command (#lift or something) that is used like the
>stethoscope, leash, lockpick, etc.
>
>#lift (direction)
>
> Do you want to pick up the little dog? (y/n)
>
>then it'll record the monster as an item (so you can throw it normally)
>with weight equal to the corpse weights.
>
Dobie-o-Matic.
Or for fans of Hot Shots 2 - pick up a chicken and fire it from your bow.
Allan
John Novak
> Or for fans of Hot Shots 2 - pick up a chicken and fire it from your bow.
Cockatrice.
If you have gloves, and helmets which cover your cheeks.
--
John S. Novak, III
j...@cegt201.bradley.edu
j...@camelot.bradley.edu
Boudewijn Wayers
>Well, apart from the fact that they appear to have lost their names in
>the new version (what are they doing there at all anymore?) the fact
Just filling the "Q" slot, I guess... Like the "z" is a zruty, which
seems to be the only monster the dev team could think of (next to
zombies) starting with a "z".
Boudewijn.
--
True or False, but they say that...
When a piercer drops in on you, you will be tempted to hit the ceiling! (F)
Just below any trapdoor there may be another one. Just keep falling! (F)
You hear the fortune cookie's hissing! (F)
Mills / Allan William (ISE)
tradition method of pulling it out of a stone. Say about level 5 or so
you'll find it embedded in a rock and you need GoP, positive luck and
favour of your god to yank it out. Possibly also limited to knights.
Allan
Mills / Allan William (ISE)
Could you imagine running into a Bobbit ?
The Bobbit slices you painfully.
{ A few dozen turns later).
The succubus tries to seduce you but finds it impossible.
Allan
>Ralph
>
>
Warwick Allison
>[Quantum mechanics are] just filling the "Q" slot, I guess...
What's wrong with `Quagga' [sp?] from rogue?
(other than it not really much of a monster... any more than the dodo)
--
Warwick