Shin Kaya vs Katsura vs Hiba
Russell ES
Next month I am purchasing a new table board, and I am debating between 2" Shin
Kaya(american spruce) or 2" Katsura or a 1.5" Hiba. They all run about the
same price, so putting price aside, I am wondering what other folks thoughts
are between these options? Of course I cannot compare them side by side in
person, so its a tough choice to make. Of course the extra thickness of going
with Shin Kaya or Katsura would be nice, but Hiba is supposed to be a more
attractive wood? Anyways, please let me know your own opinions between these
three.
Thanks!
Icarii
very softwood so care is needed. Not getting katsura till i buy a floor
board ^^
"Russell ES" <russ...@aol.com> wrote in message
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Russell ES
very softwood so care is needed. Not getting katsura till i buy a floor
The agathis boards I have seen are two peices of wood joined rather then a
solid peice, and they have their sides stained a darker color, is yours like
this? I did not like the look of the stained sides. Though agathis is
considerably cheaper then the choices I was considering, I would prefer a
single peice of wood and no stained sides.
Russell
Icarii
the board itself you can hardly see the line at all unless your looking for
it or have your face a few centimeters from the board. I just like it cause
its cheap enough that i can cart it around without worrying about something
happening to it like to go club or what not but also nice enough where i
dont mind hours of study on itif yours is going to be in one position most
of the time (ie your house or what not) then yes go for the more expensive
"Russell ES" <russ...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031015201019...@mb-m27.aol.com...
David Bogie
Since you cannot see the items, you're guessing if everything blend
well together and how you'll like the color, the grain, the thickness,
the smell.
My go equipment is personal so I have some unusual pieces; I bought a
board of purpleheart made in Canada and one set of bowls is clear
lucite.
Before you commit, visit www.boardgamego.com. The floor model is
uniquely Western in design. I'm not particurlarly fond of oak's grain
structure so look at the butternut, it is a luscious wood.
None of these is hiba, though! Yellow hiba is really interesting and
presents a contrast with black and white that you don't get with more
conventional brown or tan woods. The Korean 1.5" from Ishi is probably
the unit you're considering? Of those three choices, I'd buy the hiba,
no question. Hiba is lovely. You will be delighted with the hiba but
if you go with the shin kaya, you'll always wonder if you should have
gone with the hiba.
david boise ID
gowan
I think I'd choose the shin kaya from these alternatives. I have a 2"
katsura table board but it is a bit dull looking and has darkened
quite a bit in the 20 years I've had it. I also have a 2" hiba board
which is nicely bright in color and has not darkened in the 10 years
I've had it. If you could go up a bit in price I'd choose a hiba
2-inch board over the shin kaya. I think a 1.5 inch board might be
more likely to warp.
Icarii
no 100. would blend too much with white stones i would think.
"David Bogie" <bogi...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:5e63edec.03101...@posting.google.com...
justafriend
This is a personal decision. Don't buy what is supposed to be the
nicest just because it is the most expensive.
Hiba is my favorite because it is the brightest and has no real grain
pattern.
Spruce is a little less yellow and has stronger grain pattern, but
some people like this. The most expensive Kaya boards are like this in
fact.
Katsura is a darker wood. Very soft - regular use will result in
slight indentations from smacking the stones down. This is normal and
a sign of a well used board.
I read your comment about not liking Agathis boards because they are
made from several pieces. This is true of virtually all table boards.
I think there is an issue with warping over time if one piece is
used. Most of the time this is not noticeable, at least when looking
at the playing surface.
Most important: Hiba from one vendor may not be the same as hiba from
another. The Japanese made boards are inked in the traditional way,
and the ink is slightly raised above the board. Most of the Korean
boards have the 19x19 grid silkscreened onto it -- thought not to be
as high in quality. My advice is to think of this as a big investment
that, if done right, will provide you with decades of enjoyment. I
would spend the extra bucks and get the 2 inch hiba board from a place
like Kiseido where you know it is made well.
Good luck and don't forget to consider the color of your bowls when
choosing a set -- it all needs to work well together.
russ...@aol.com (Russell ES) wrote in message news:<20031015175517...@mb-m27.aol.com>...
John Fairbairn
> presents a contrast with black and white that you don't get with more
> conventional brown or tan woods. The Korean 1.5" from Ishi is probably
> the unit you're considering? Of those three choices, I'd buy the hiba,
> no question. Hiba is lovely. You will be delighted with the hiba but
> if you go with the shin kaya, you'll always wonder if you should have
> gone with the hiba.
>
hiba (cypress) is regarded as giving very attractive grain and its only real
weak point (apart from the existence of kaya) is that it is soft and bright.
Brightness is a problem in the glare of Japanese daylight but not much of a
problem indoors or in many parts of the west. In any case it attenuates over
time. Softness is a factor really only for go clubs, where the hard
heavy-duty katsura is recommended. Katsura's big problem is that it goes
very dark.
David: are you aware of any significant differences between the two
cypresses used: Taihi (Taiwanese cypress) and hiba?
Chris Lawrence
> Next month I am purchasing a new table board, and I am debating between 2" Shin
> Kaya(american spruce) or 2" Katsura or a 1.5" Hiba. They all run about the
What's the difference between shin kaya and hyuga kaya?
--
Chris
gowan
>
>
> What's the difference between shin kaya and hyuga kaya?
Shin kaya is spruce wood which resembles real (hyuga) kaya in grain
and color but not in what the Japanese call "uchi aji", the feel and
sound of playing a stone. Kaya is wood from a Torreya Nucifera tree,
a kind of yew. Hyuga is an area in southern Japan so Hyuga kaya is
kaya that comes from that area. In traditiona Japanese go board
aesthetics, Hyuga kaya is considered superior to other kaya (e.g. from
elsewhere in Japan or from China) in color and grain.
Douglas Ridgway
They are different woods from different trees, and their cost is
vastly different. Sitka spruce looks a bit like real kaya, though, so
some innovative
marketer christened it "new kaya" = shin kaya. For slightly more info
and pics
of my board (new kaya), see
http://www.dridgway.com/Go/equipment.html
doug.
rid...@dridgway.com
Tweedie
>Shin kaya is spruce wood which resembles real (hyuga) kaya in grain
>and color but not in what the Japanese call "uchi aji", the feel and
The color of 'shin kaya' (which is from America) does not
resemble the color of true kaya from Japan. There is only
some similarity in the grain.
'Shin kaya' means 'new kaya' and is only marketing term.
Shin kaya is not in any way related to 'hon kaya', or
true kaya.
ro...@telus.net
>Next month I am purchasing a new table board, and I am debating between 2" Shin
>Kaya(american spruce) or 2" Katsura or a 1.5" Hiba. They all run about the
>same price, so putting price aside, I am wondering what other folks thoughts
>are between these options?
If you are going to be keeping the board a long time and playing on it
a lot, I would not recommend shin kaya or katsura, as they are soft
and will eventually be covered with little dents. Even kaya
eventually wears this way and has to be planed down and relined.
Katsura also gets quite dark over time. I would go with the hiba,
which is a bright, attractive wood with faint grain. The thickness of
a table board is not that important, IMO, because for many people,
especially East Asians who tend to be shorter, typical Western tables
are too high for proper viewing of the board, and a thicker board just
makes this worse.
-- Roy L
Juan
Most (if not all) table boards are made of a least 2 pieces of wood.
The spruce boards I've seen look closer to my kaya board than hiba or
katsura in grain and colour.
The board in the jago client used to look ( i don't have jago
installed now ) very similar to my old katsura 2'' board, which is the
one I use the most; probably for sentimental reasons.
My 2 eurocents, Juan
David Bogie
Never been to Japan but I've played go on lots of boards and owned
many. I have had a deep dark agathis, a lovely bright yellow hiba, a
nice katsura, my purpleheart, and at least four others of unknown
species. I loved the hiba but it wasn't getting the go it deserved so
I was able to sell it to a more attentive player.
As someone else noted, "hiba" is not always hiba. I imagine the $150
Korean hiba boards are far different from the $400 Japanese hiba
boards.
Softness? I cannot imagine so much go on any of my boards. Not in my
lifetime. In some circles, the wear and tear on fine boards is
respected, is it not?
david boise ID
"John Fairbairn" <john...@harrowgo.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<bmlklr$s51$1$8300...@news.demon.co.uk>...
David Bogie
equipment?
The photo really doesn't do the floor model board justice, which is
too bad. There's plenty of contrast between the stones and the wood to
have millions of good games and, of course, the wood, being organic as
heck, will change color as it ages. But there's no doubt the owner of
a go board made of one of the hundreds of lighter colored woods such
as pine and maple would need some time to acclimate.
And that's what I love about Carol's woodwork. The craft is excellent.
He's pushing the envelope from a Western point of view and making go
boards of Northern native woods. These are cool boards on which to
play go; there is no veneer of tradition which, while charming, might
be an anachronism in our culture where the local resources are
different species of trees.
I hope someone gets a chance to see and play on one of Carol Dufour's
pine go boards and can write it up for us.
david boise ID
"Icarii" <ica...@zoominternet.net> wrote in message news:<3f8e1...@corp.newsgroups.com>...
Tommie
> If you are going to be keeping the board a long time and playing on it
> a lot, I would not recommend shin kaya or katsura, as they are soft
> and will eventually be covered with little dents.
About 20 years ago I bought a slotted 2cm thick katsura (I think it
is) board made in Japan.
The first ten years I played a lot on it. (Now I play less Go in
general and I use also other boards or the computer).
Yes it became brownish (I never used any oil or so) and yes it has
many dimples from the thousands clicks of go stones.
But these dimples flatten each other out and the wood is (became?)
quite hard.
In effect it is my preferred board (over a Korean table and a Chinese
board made from wood with stone inlay).
Hence, the dents or the changing colour do not necessarily have to
affect its beauty or your affection.
Tommie
Chris Lawrence
[me]
> > What's the difference between shin kaya and hyuga kaya?
> marketer christened it "new kaya" = shin kaya. For slightly more info
I wasn't sure if shin kaya meant new kaya, thanks for confirming (and to
the others who replied of course). Before I bought my hyuga kaya board
from Kuroki I was chatting with Mr Kuroki quite a lot in email, asking
him questions, for advice, etc. He explained that new kaya is fine but
over a long time can become brittle and is not highly rated by Japanese
Go players. The hyuga kaya is soft wood and does become lightly dimpled
but as Tommie said these tend to balance out and are said to give
positive character to the board.
As someone else said, think of it as an investment. I preferred to
spend a bit more to get a nice hyuga table board instead of a cheaper
wood board because even the cheap ones aren't really cheap and I plan to
keep my set for a long time.
> http://www.dridgway.com/Go/equipment.html
Looks good! Kuroki have some great products!
--
Chris
Chris Lawrence
> another. The Japanese made boards are inked in the traditional way,
> and the ink is slightly raised above the board. Most of the Korean
You can see this effect on my board, especially with the corner hoshi:
http://photos.holosys.co.uk/photo.php?id=1153347
--
Chris
Ralph
This means that the finish is applied to the board first and then it's
inked which is as I suspected since the ink would blead into untreated
wood. I wonder how you get the ink off without ruining the finish if
one makes a mistake inking the board.
Roy Schmidt
> This means that the finish is applied to the board first and then
it's
> inked which is as I suspected since the ink would blead into
untreated
> wood. I wonder how you get the ink off without ruining the finish if
> one makes a mistake inking the board.
The finish is just wax. But the reason the Japanese use a sword to
ink the board is that if the inker makes a mistake, the master can use
the sword to swiftly demote the inker. :-)
Cheers, Roy
--
my reply-to address is gostoned at insightbb dot com
-------------------------------------------------
Roy Schmidt
Part-time Translator for Yutopian
Full-time Professor of Business Computer Systems
Bradley University
Ralph
So one could use bald cypress or pond cypress as a suitable substitute
for making floor sized gobans and get very similer results to using
hiba?
SB
"Douglas Ridgway" <rid...@dridgway.com> wrote in message
news:82caaf8f.0310...@posting.google.com...
> marketer christened it "new kaya" = shin kaya. For slightly more info
"shin" means "new" in official Japanese. However, "shin" has another
meaning, i.e., "(much cheaper) imitaion". The accurate translation of "shin
kaya" might be "cheaper imitation of Kaya". One of the analogous usage of
"shin" is "shin zouge", which means a plastic material that looks like
ivory.
Andrew Walkingshaw
Might a good translation be "ersatz"?
- Andrew
Louise Bremner
> >> marketer christened it "new kaya" = shin kaya. For slightly more info
> >
> > "shin" means "new" in official Japanese. However, "shin" has another
> > meaning, i.e., "(much cheaper) imitaion". The accurate translation of "shin
> > kaya" might be "cheaper imitation of Kaya". One of the analogous usage of
> > "shin" is "shin zouge", which means a plastic material that looks like
> > ivory.
>
> Might a good translation be "ersatz"?
Or "neo-".
________________________________________________________________________
Louise Bremner (log at gol dot com)
If you want a reply by e-mail, don't write to my Yahoo address!
Roy Schmidt
> Andrew Walkingshaw <andrew...@lexical.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > >> marketer christened it "new kaya" = shin kaya. For slightly
more info
> > >
> > > "shin" means "new" in official Japanese. However, "shin" has
another
> > > meaning, i.e., "(much cheaper) imitaion". The accurate
translation of "shin
> > > kaya" might be "cheaper imitation of Kaya". One of the
analogous usage of
> > > "shin" is "shin zouge", which means a plastic material that
looks like
> > > ivory.
> >
> > Might a good translation be "ersatz"?
>
> Or "neo-".
Ah, perfect! Keep that up, Louise, and we might get the impression
you speak English. :-)
Moah, platypus powaaa!
> Ah, perfect! Keep that up, Louise, and we might get the impression
> you speak English. :-)
does "neo" carry a sense of low quality in English?
my own contribution: "pseudo-"
> Cheers, Roy
Moah, platypus powaaa!
mullens
>
> does "neo" carry a sense of low quality in English?
>
There's Nouveau Riche - that's certainly derogatory
Matt & Laurie Kulikosky
one made of 3 before. As an aside, do any of the more knowledgeable and
experienced ones of you out there know if the number of pieces making up a
board is a big deal, in terms of its "value", or how it's viewed by others?
Just curious. Mine does look nice, and you actually really have to look at
the sides (ends) to notice the different pieces of wood. The yellowish
color is very pleasant indeed. Thanks,
Matt K.
"Juan" <jjtele...@yahoo.es> wrote in message
news:500c2486.03101...@posting.google.com...
David Bogie
joinery, not in the number of pieces.
In Japan, one piece go and shogi boards are dear because they don't
make trees like that any more. And as long as it stays near the ocean,
a one or two piece board will last many lifetimes.
Bring the same board to Boise ID and in just a few short months, maybe
a year or two, it will die a horrible death; twisted, checked, and
cracked.
Five or more sticks of well machined, high quality wood, correctly
oriented and glued, will move together as the board ages and dries. It
might buckle slightly at the seams but will never split. Probably.
david boise ID
"Matt & Laurie Kulikosky" <mv...@erols.com> wrote in message news:<bn9fi0$kcu$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>...