# Choosing a bad first move

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### Darren Cook

Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
to
In a go-moku thread, Bill Taylor wrote:
>i.e. let one player make the opening move, and the other
>then decides whether he will be black or white. Simple.

So the interesting question here is in 19x19 go, with no komi, where
would you play the first move?

The common opening moves would be no good, as your opponent would
choose to be black. So do you play on the 2nd line? The 1,1 point??

Darren

### Simon Goss

Apr 19, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/19/00
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Darren Cook writes

In a normal komi game, the first move should have a miai value twice the
size of the komi (as discussed in the latter part of last year). During
the first few moves, the score _on_the_board_ should oscillate between 0
and 2k, where k is the size of the komi.

In a game under the rules you suggest, with no komi, the score needs to
oscillate instead between -k and +k. So the first move should have a
miai value equal to what you think is correct komi in an even game, or

The 1-1 point isn't going to do that, IMO. Maybe something like the 10-2
point?
--
Simon

### Barry Phease

Apr 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/20/00
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Simon Goss wrote:

> In a game under the rules you suggest, with no komi, the score needs to
> oscillate instead between -k and +k. So the first move should have a
> miai value equal to what you think is correct komi in an even game, or

Right!

>
> The 1-1 point isn't going to do that, IMO.

I agree. The 1-1 point is almost like passing.

> Maybe something like the 10-2
> point?

I don't think that the 10-2 point is quite bad enough. If a good first
move is worth 14 points the 10-2 point is worth perhaps 10 points.

Perhaps the correct result could be achieved by changing sides after the
first 10 moves or so.

--
Barry Phease

### Bill Taylor

Apr 20, 2000, 3:00:00 AM4/20/00
to
dar...@factcomm.NOSPAM.co.jp (Darren Cook) writes:

|> >i.e. let one player make the opening move, and the other
|> >then decides whether he will be black or white.
|>

|> So the interesting question here is in 19x19 go, with no komi, where
|> would you play the first move?
|>

|> So do you play on the 2nd line?

It certainly looks like it.

|> The 1,1 point??

Definitely not! Someone else observed this would be almost lke passing.
Indeed, it may conceivably be WORSE than passing - a negative move!
This is not all that unlikely - it is a proved fact that on the 4x4
board at least, 1-1 is worse than useless:- opening there results in
a loss by 16, whereas opening with a pass results in a loss by 2.

Another suggestion was 2-10. Not a bad try, but I suspect it is better
than half an optinal opening move - maybe more like 3/4 of one.
Black can play next in one of the adjacent corners and use the stone
as very helpful influence, I suspect.

My favorite answer is 2-2. I've long thought this is just bad enough
(but not too bad) to leave the game evenly poised.