100 USD reward for the name and address of "AWater" (StoneBase author)
Frank de Groot
name and address in China.
"AWater", the author of StoneBase, has plagiarized my software's resources
(stones, stone sounds and board texture).
When I took him to account, he proceeded to post here some serious
allegations and lies about me.
What I now will do is file a police complaint about him, in China, with his
local police for plagiarism and slander.
I will persist until he has been punished, even if it means I will have to
travel to China and help things along.
I have evidence enough - like his email with a confession.
And the slanderous accusations come from China, just a few hours after his
threats to do so.
It can be anonymously, as long as I have a way to verify.
I can pay with bank transfer, Paypal or sending cash/Western Union,
whatever.
Thanks,
Frank
Frank de Groot
>I give a hundred bucks to the first person who tells me "AWater" his real
>name and address in China.
I came this far (so far):
http://www.moyogo.com/blog/blog.htm
Peterium
ganging up on you. Perhaps moyogo is a decent program with innovative
designs or something, but I find it pretty useless when trying to
improve my game. It's probably possible to use it to suggest some
moves, but in the end, moyogo is dead, and the player's alive. Just
like you believe that ripping games off other programs, I believe that
ripping pictures and board textures off other sites, pictures, program,
screenshots or anything is just as justified. Did you copyright your
pictures? I bought moyogo last November, I believe, but I really only
used it about 10 times in my entire life. Meanwhile, I've used
Stonebase and Go Assistant countless times. The guy from stonebase took
the time to write the program, and put together everything and even
host the site for other people at no charge. In my eyes, he is someone
who actually love go. I'm sure you're a good programmer, and you're on
the road to success or whatever, but just to let you know, your
attitude towards the game I love has sicken me to the point where I
don't care how good your program is (if it is any good) I would not use
it. And guess what? If there are people who can make it to the pro
level with a couple of printed books, I can improve without using your
so called "cutting edge" program. Oh, and I'd like to have my money
back. You claim that so far no one asked for money back, well here's
one, let's see how you handle it.
Frank de Groot
> You know what? I've had enough of your accusing the entire world of
> ganging up on you.
Where were you when they accused ME of plagiarism and Copyright violation?
So when someone plagiarizes me, I have to shut up?
> Perhaps moyogo is a decent program with innovative
> designs or something, but I find it pretty useless when trying to
> improve my game. It's probably possible to use it to suggest some
> moves, but in the end, moyogo is dead, and the player's alive.
MoyoGo is not useful in tactical situations (yet).
Then again, you get lifetime free updates, so one day that wil be fixed,
free of charge.
What you get is the best databasing, the best pattern searching etc.
No TsumeGo yet. I thought that was clear enough.
> Just
> like you believe that ripping games off other programs, I believe that
> ripping pictures and board textures off other sites, pictures, program,
> screenshots or anything is just as justified.
There is quite a difference. At least according to the Law.
And you don't get it. He ripped all the program's resources. All designed
bitmaps, recorded sounds etc.
> Did you copyright your pictures?
Everything is automatically copyrighted. The law does not require any
"copyrighting".
> I bought moyogo last November, I believe, but I really only
> used it about 10 times in my entire life. Meanwhile, I've used
> Stonebase and Go Assistant countless times. The guy from stonebase took
> the time to write the program, and put together everything and even
> host the site for other people at no charge. In my eyes, he is someone
> who actually love go.
No doubt. That doesn't give him the right, neither ethical nor legal, to
steal my carefully crafted bitmaps and sounds (studio recorded by Blake
Haber). StoneBase's goban is an exact copy of mine. I spent one year on my
goban, getting it perfect. AWater just rips it off and when I complain he
posts here that I am a criminal.
And you, you piece of rotten placenta, you take the side of this guy because
he "loves Go"??
All ethics go overboard when you don't like someone, right? It doesn't
matter what the truth is, or what the law is, or what is ethical, as long as
you don't like the person. In that case, the person should shut up and take
any abuse, any slander, any theft.
Piece of shit.
>I'm sure you're a good programmer, and you're on
> the road to success or whatever, but just to let you know, your
> attitude towards the game I love has sicken me to the point where I
My "attitude towards the game"??
I HAVE no attitude towards the game!
I am a /programmer/ you dipshit, I have no TIME to get involved with any
attitudes towards the game.
I am an engineer, engineering stuff. I never said anything bad about Go,
why do you think I am working on a Go program??
> don't care how good your program is (if it is any good) I would not use
> it.
You shouldn't have bought it then. Waste of money.
And guess what? If there are people who can make it to the pro
> level with a couple of printed books, I can improve without using your
> so called "cutting edge" program. Oh, and I'd like to have my money
> back. You claim that so far no one asked for money back, well here's
> one, let's see how you handle it.
This extreme rightwing guy asked his money back a few hours after I mailed
it.
I compliedm even though he wanted his money back because he didn't like me,
and not the program.
So now he's using the program, without having paid for it.
I am not going to let you do the same, sorry. Only the most disgusting human
scum will do that - buy software and when they don't like the political
opinion or character of the author, ask their money back. You are a sick
fuck, having bought the software a full year ago and now wanting your money
back. There is a one month money-back guarantee, so fuck you very much.
Frank de Groot
> host the site for other people at no charge. In my eyes, he is someone
> who actually love go.
I see. You are Chinese, aren't you?
Are you sure your support for the plagiarist/slanderer Mr. "AWater" isn't a
"tribal" thing?
Frank de Groot
> back. You claim that so far no one asked for money back, well here's
> one, let's see how you handle it.
On April 11, I offered you your money back because you posted here that you
do not understand how to use the program.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.go/msg/28cf67e540c14ca3
And I asked you to tell us/me WHY you did not like the program.
You kept silent. You did not want your money back. You did not want to tell
us why you did not like the program. You did not want help. You just wanted
to bitch a little.
How shameful, how low can you sink, you buy software that comes on a DVD
(costs me 14$ to send).
Then, a year later, when you don't like that I expose your fellow countryman
for plagiarism and slander, you suddenly want your money back.
As you can see, I offered you your money back half a year ago.
Now it's too late, pissface. You can go fuck yourself. I don't need
customers like you.
Frank de Groot
> you do not understand how to use the program.
Oh and pissface -
You wrote, a year ago:
"Just wondering, what are SmartGo 2's advantage compared to MoyoGo?
(just the go problems?)
For disadvantage I see: smaller game database, and higher price... "
*** And look what I answered: ***
"Allow me to defend SmartGo: In many ways, it is very much more powerful
than Moyo Go.
Moyo Go has a few unique things that other software doesn't have, but
SmartGo has a lot of things my software doesn't have! "
Now WHO is here an unethical bastard?
ME for minimizing the value of my software before you bought it (and
offering your money back half a year ago!)
..or YOU?
Mef
Frank de Groot wrote:
> Everything is automatically copyrighted. The law does not require any
> "copyrighting".
Is this true in China? (note: This is a serious question, I'm actually
curious.)
Cheers,
Mef
Frank de Groot
Why do you accuse me of lying, then?
I claim here that this is the case in China, otherwise why all the fuss?
You in turn postulate that I am lying.
See?
Yes Mef, Copyright is valid everywhere where the Berne Convention on
Copyright has been signed.
That includes North Korea, even, since a few years.
BTW, the last person accused of plagiarizing Go software, the Manager of KCC
Igo, got executed for it.
The author of Handtalk simply contacted the police. The police did the rest.
Two months after prof. Chen (?) lodged his complaint, the manager of KCC Igo
was dead. Firing squad.
It shows how STUPID it is when you live in a totalitarian and corrupt
country, to rip off Go software from other programmers.
The score so far: Go Plagiarists - Go programmers: 0 - 1.
Peterium
accuse you too. You don't see SmartGo, or other software companies
asking for you private address so they can see you punished. Human
beings are generally a little more decent than that. At the rate of 50
games a week, it'll take MORE than a lifetime for moyogo to get
anywhere even remotely near amateur dan level, much less pro level.
Best databasing abd pattern searching perhaps, but how useful is that,
really...?
> There is quite a difference. At least according to the Law.
> And you don't get it. He ripped all the program's resources. All designed
> bitmaps, recorded sounds etc.
> Everything is automatically copyrighted. The law does not require any
> "copyrighting".
Copyright is there for a reason, nothing is automatically copyrighted.
You actually have to go register whatever you're trying to copyright,
and pay a fee. Before you do that, nothing is really copyrighted. He
did not rip all the program's resources, he did not make his own
database programs stealing your ideas. He copied some lousy pictures
and recorded sounds that takes like what... 30 minutes to make? It's
background texture. People put that kinda stuff on the internet for
free to get more hits. I'm sure if he didn't expect you to behave like
a 3 year old, or he'd prob decide it's not worth the efforts.
>
>
> > I bought moyogo last November, I believe, but I really only
> > used it about 10 times in my entire life. Meanwhile, I've used
> > Stonebase and Go Assistant countless times. The guy from stonebase took
> > the time to write the program, and put together everything and even
> > host the site for other people at no charge. In my eyes, he is someone
> > who actually love go.
> No doubt. That doesn't give him the right, neither ethical nor legal, to
> steal my carefully crafted bitmaps and sounds (studio recorded by Blake
> Haber). StoneBase's goban is an exact copy of mine. I spent one year on my
> goban, getting it perfect. AWater just rips it off and when I complain he
> posts here that I am a criminal.
The same way you "stole" people's games. I have recorded games at
tournaments. I've had to sit there for like, 3 hours in one go, and
record a bunch of games. I recorded those games because people would
like to see them online, to take a look at it, else it's a complete
waste of my time.
> And you, you piece of rotten placenta, you take the side of this guy because
> he "loves Go"??
> All ethics go overboard when you don't like someone, right? It doesn't
> matter what the truth is, or what the law is, or what is ethical, as long as
> you don't like the person. In that case, the person should shut up and take
> any abuse, any slander, any theft.
According to the law, you have not copyrighted your images yet, so
there's nothing you can do. I don't care if I don't get my money back.
Moyo go is a program written by an extremely childish and indecent
person. If anything, as a human being and a go player, I refuse to use
your program even though I've paid for it--because using it means I'm
associated with someone like you.
> Piece of shit.
>
> >I'm sure you're a good programmer, and you're on
> > the road to success or whatever, but just to let you know, your
> > attitude towards the game I love has sicken me to the point where I
>
> My "attitude towards the game"??
>
> I HAVE no attitude towards the game!
> I am a /programmer/ you dipshit, I have no TIME to get involved with any
> attitudes towards the game.
> I am an engineer, engineering stuff. I never said anything bad about Go,
> why do you think I am working on a Go program??
You have no respect for go or even for fellow humans.
>
> > don't care how good your program is (if it is any good) I would not use
> > it.
>
> You shouldn't have bought it then. Waste of money.
Yes, I agree.
> And guess what? If there are people who can make it to the pro
> > level with a couple of printed books, I can improve without using your
> > so called "cutting edge" program. Oh, and I'd like to have my money
> > back. You claim that so far no one asked for money back, well here's
> > one, let's see how you handle it.
>
> This extreme rightwing guy asked his money back a few hours after I mailed
> it.
> I compliedm even though he wanted his money back because he didn't like me,
> and not the program.
> So now he's using the program, without having paid for it.
> I am not going to let you do the same, sorry. Only the most disgusting human
> scum will do that - buy software and when they don't like the political
> opinion or character of the author, ask their money back. You are a sick
> fuck, having bought the software a full year ago and now wanting your money
> back. There is a one month money-back guarantee, so fuck you very much.
When I bought the program it's your money back, period. Now it's
changed to one month guarantee. Let me think... Did anyone mention
lifetime updates?
Frank de Groot
> If you can accuse people of plagarizing, then other have the right to
> accuse you too.
There is a small difference.
I have a point, they don't.
>You don't see SmartGo, or other software companies
> asking for you private address so they can see you punished.
I live at Vettaliveien 19, 0781 Oslo, Norway, and I am *begging* to be sued.
As I have said before, they have no case, and they know it.
> Human beings are generally a little more decent than that. At the rate of
> 50
> games a week, it'll take MORE than a lifetime for moyogo to get
> anywhere even remotely near amateur dan level, much less pro level.
What do you mean, 50 games a week?
You have NO CLUE what you are talking about!
Moyo Go is NOT LEARNING, you clown!
It's just a DATABASE!!
> Best databasing abd pattern searching perhaps, but how useful is that,
> really...?
Dunno. Ask those 400 people who bought it.
> Copyright is there for a reason, nothing is automatically copyrighted.
IMBECILE!
> You actually have to go register whatever you're trying to copyright,
> and pay a fee.
IMBECILE!
You are talking about REGISTERING A TRADEMARK.
> Before you do that, nothing is really copyrighted.
You're making a fool of yourself for all the world to see!
Hahahaha, fucking moron.
http://computing-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Bern+Convention
"Registration with the Copyright office is not required"
Friggin' clown. I'm ashamed you are one of my customers. Stupid monkey.
> did not rip all the program's resources,
Liar!
He ripped the sounds, the board texture and the stones.
Anything ELSE to rip of significance??
> database programs stealing your ideas. He copied some lousy pictures
Ah, "lousy", isn't it? Then why did he copy it, motherfucker?
> and recorded sounds that takes like what... 30 minutes to make?
Doesn't matter how long it took. Those sounds are my property and they make
my program the best sounding program.
And he stole those sounds, you fucking asshole.
> It's background texture. People put that kinda stuff on the internet for
> free to get more hits.
It was the texture I worked on for more than a day, as I explained before.
He ripped it out of the software or took it from my website.
> I'm sure if he didn't expect you to behave like
> a 3 year old, or he'd prob decide it's not worth the efforts.
He is entering a world of pain. If I can help it (even if it will cost me
thousands of dollars), I will get him behind bars in China.
Even if It will cost me 10,000 USD or double that, I will nail his ass.
> According to the law, you have not copyrighted your images yet,
IMBECILE!!
LIAR!!
http://computing-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Bern+Convention
> Moyo go is a program written by an extremely childish and indecent
> person.
And you are defending a thief - using deliberate LIES.
Look who's making a public spectacle of himself..
"You have to register a Copyright first", ROFTL.
Which hole did you come out of? Scum.
> If anything, as a human being and a go player, I refuse to use
> your program even though I've paid for it--because using it means I'm
> associated with someone like you.
Good. I don't want my work polluted by your usage.
> You have no respect for go or even for fellow humans.
Not for thieves, antisemites, liars and other trash, no.
Get your facts straigt buster, before you accuse me of lying about
Copyright.
And before you defend a thief and a slanderer, you lowlife.
> When I bought the program it's your money back, period. Now it's
> changed to one month guarantee. Let me think... Did anyone mention
> lifetime updates?
Fuck you.
Vit Brunner
> There is a one month money-back guarantee, so fuck you very much.
Ah yeah, so *this* is how friendly Frank is to the customers...
Frank de Groot
>> There is a one month money-back guarantee, so fuck you very much.
>
> Ah yeah, so *this* is how friendly Frank is to the customers...
I kick any of my customer's ass when they declare in public that it is
perfectly allright that someone steals my stuff, and on top of that have the
GALL to want his money back, one year after he bought it.
He should be tarred and feathered. He's a horse's ass. A horse's ass who
doesn't know shit about copyright but lectures me nevertheless, a horse's
ass who thinks the weekly pro games send out for free are intended to "teach
Moyo Go to play Go", a horse's ass for wanting his money back based on a
PERSONAL DISLIKE and a horse's ass for siding with thieves and slanderers.
And you know.. I could come down on the bugger much harder. I could publish
his name, because he's hiding - as all cowards do - in anonimity.
But that's impossible - he is my customer. And I could disable his copy in
the next update. I won't ever do that either - he paid for it.
But you are stretching it a bit thin to expect me to refund someone (after
ONE YEAR) who is the best friend of the thief of my work, and who then
proceeds to call me a liar, etc. etc.
You think we should still take you serious? I know you are born in a country
that has until recently been occupied by Russia.
Rather uniquely, your country decided to just bend over and take it up the
ass from Russia. No resistance whatsoever.
And then you were brainwashed in school on how bad capitalism is, yadda
yadda. (some truth in that though).
But guess what kiddo.. You are in the real world now. You better adapt
before oil prices quadruple and you will starve.
In the capitalist world, companies do not refund their enemy-combatant
customers (customers who publicly declare themselves enemy of the company)
random, unwarranted refunds.
You have to bootstrap yourself out of the "ripping off" mindset, and get
into the "civillized business" mindset.
Vit Brunner
> There is a one month money-back guarantee, so fuck you very much.
Ah yeah, so *this* is how friendly Frank is to the customers...
Frank de Groot
>> There is a one month money-back guarantee, so fuck you very much.
>
> Ah yeah, so *this* is how friendly Frank is to the customers...
T Mark Hall
Brunner <vit.b...@gmail.com> writes
>Frank de Groot wrote:
>> There is a one month money-back guarantee, so fuck you very much.
>
>Ah yeah, so *this* is how friendly Frank is to the customers...
>
customer who wanted to use it on an Apple machine. He came back at the
European Congress in Rome and said that he had not been able to make it
work. I refunded his money. A similar thing happened when I sold to a
Japanese lady at the US Congress at Houston and she found it didn't work
on her computer; I refunded the cost and paid all the bank charges
myself. People appreciate it when you go the extra mile.
Best wishes.
--
T Mark Hall
http://www.gogod.demon.co.uk/index.htm
http://www.gogod.demon.co.uk/NewInGo/NewInGo.htm
http://www.gogod.demon.co.uk/CoffeeBreak/CBProblem.htm
Vit Brunner
> And then you were brainwashed in school on how bad capitalism is, yadda
> yadda. (some truth in that though).
I started going to school in 1991 and I wasn't brainwashed on how bad
capitalism is. If I were like you I'd call you a fucking liar now.
Frank de Groot
> I started going to school in 1991 and I wasn't brainwashed on how bad
> capitalism is. If I were like you I'd call you a fucking liar now.
You would have a point :-)
OK so you are some kind of child genius?
Well in that case I wish you a glorious future.
I thought you were an extremely stupid 50-year old, but you are an extremely
intelligent 11-year old* instead.
Mea Culpa.
*Or thereabouts
Frank de Groot
> More than a year ago in Prague I sold a copy of GoGoD to a German customer
> who wanted to use it on an Apple machine. He came back at the European
> Congress in Rome and said that he had not been able to make it work. I
> refunded his money. A similar thing happened when I sold to a Japanese
> lady at the US Congress at Houston and she found it didn't work on her
> computer; I refunded the cost and paid all the bank charges myself. People
> appreciate it when you go the extra mile.
Ah... Pissing contest!
I can name dozens of examples. Recently someone had clearly a broken DVD
reader, and I told him so.
But he wanted a new DVD. I sent it to him and I stayed very friendly when he
told me it was his DVD reader.
Last week I was supposed to meet a Japanese woman, to get a copy of Moyo Go.
I did not make it. Ergo: I sent the DVD free of charge. The least they
deserved. I am very sorry I didn't make it.
Yesterday someone from a country with low wages said to want to buy Moyo Go.
I sold it for half price - some services rendered by him (I can't do this to
everybody but I do it sometimes, when they link to me or something).
There was a person who had strange problems that never were proven to be
Moyo Go's fault. I sent him /four/ DVDs before we discovered it was not my
fault. And I remained friendly.
There were people who submitted bug reports and I thought it might be urgent
(tournament coming up), so I worked all through the night to fix it. And I
am chronically ill, when I miss sleep, I get sick.
There were about ten people who had no credit card. I tell them to send
money in an envelope with ME taking the risk, AND I send the DVD on their
word that they will send the money.
There was a man who had great difficulty using the program (I think he was
68 or 72 or something) and I spent HOURS and more than 30 emails to get him
going.
etc. etc.
Why do you think I sold so many copies? Because I'm an asshole?
You think people reccommend my software to their friends if they would think
I would threat them like shit?
You see, I have borderline personality disorder. It's called "splitting". I
split people in good and bad.
The good people are my customers. They support me in the War of the Go
Software Vendors.
The bad people are the lowlifes that dwell here.
Chris Lawrence
> So now he's using the program, without having paid for it.
>
> I am not going to let you do the same, sorry. Only the most disgusting human
> scum will do that - buy software and when they don't like the political
> opinion or character of the author, ask their money back. You are a sick
> fuck, having bought the software a full year ago and now wanting your money
> back. There is a one month money-back guarantee, so fuck you very much.
You used to have on your site a flash saying (and don't nitpick over the
precise wording) that if you weren't completely satisfied you could get
a full refund and keep the software, that's how confident you were that
people would like it. In April you stated in here that you had a
lifetime moneyback guarantee. This user bought the software around
November. And because you decide to do a U-turn on that offer, suddenly
such people are "scum"? You are unbelievable Frank.
--
Chris
Frank de Groot
> You used to have on your site a flash saying (and don't nitpick over the
> precise wording) that if you weren't completely satisfied you could get
> a full refund and keep the software, that's how confident you were that
> people would like it.
I am flattered that you regularly monitor my website, in spite of the fact
that you think I'm an asshole and that my software sucks.
I wonder why you regularly monitor my site. Is it that you are waiting like
a spider, and now gleefully have found a stick to hit me with?
It's very simple. People who genuinly want their money back because of their
disappointment with the software get their money back.
But I removed it from my site because since I came with political statements
here, some sick fucks thought they could screw me over by asking their money
back. The most contemptible thing imaginable, but hey, zero point something
percent of my customers are that way.
They see it as a nice way to screw someone over guilty of ThoughtCrime.
Of course I wasn't born yesterday, and the moment the scum tried to take
advantage of that loophole, I closed it.
It still stands for honest people. Thieves are not welcome any more. I had
to change it or otherwise the entire Republican wing of my customer base
might decide that the best way to punish me for my ThoughtCrimes would be to
get their money back.
When terrorists find a way to abusethe system, the system has to be changed,
even if it means that honest people suffer some consequences.
Honest people do not ask their money back one year after purchase, one hour
after me saying something nasty about Mr. Bush.
But surely you understand this.
It's just that you are happy that you finally found something to "prove"
that I am unreliable with.
You see, of 400 customers there were only ever two that asked their money
back.
One was a guy who asked his money back one minjute after I mailed his DVD,
(he waited until I sent him confirmation), and his reason was that I had the
wrong political opinions.
The other guy is the guy who we now all know to be an even more disgraceful
creature.
> In April you stated in here that you had a
> lifetime moneyback guarantee. This user bought the software around
> November.
Thanks for proving my point. He bought it half a year before I had any
refund guarantee.
But I offered him his money back in April - he refused. He much more
preferred to be able to bitch about the software indefinately, him being a
friend of the plagiarist of my software.
> And because you decide to do a U-turn on that offer,
LIAR!
I DID NOT HAVE ANY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE WHEN HE BOUGHT HIS COPY
Capice?
And of course he's scum. The lowest of the low.
He's just told all of us here how he thinks it's perfectly OK that someone
not only steals my software, but that this person should be allowed to make
up bullshit stories about my company as well.
What a disgraceful cunt you are, Chris. Disgusting.
Ted S.
Wed, 11 Oct 2006 02:42:19 GMT:
> "AWater", the author of StoneBase, has plagiarized my software's
> resources (stones, stone sounds and board texture).
Maybe he should have taken all the game records instead. :-)
--
Ted <fedya at bestweb dot net>
TV Announcer: It's 11:00. Do you know where your children are?
Homer: I told you last night, *no*!
<http://www.snpp.com/episodes/4F06.html>
Frank de Groot
> Maybe he should have taken all the game records instead. :-)
LOL he will, he will..
I would not like it but I /can/ have nothing against it, of course.
Chris Lawrence
> "Chris Lawrence" <new...@holosys.co.uk.invalid> wrote
>
> > You used to have on your site a flash saying (and don't nitpick over the
> > precise wording) that if you weren't completely satisfied you could get
> > a full refund and keep the software, that's how confident you were that
> > people would like it.
>
> I am flattered that you regularly monitor my website, in spite of the fact
> that you think I'm an asshole and that my software sucks.
> I wonder why you regularly monitor my site. Is it that you are waiting like
> a spider, and now gleefully have found a stick to hit me with?
Of course in your world, because I've looked at your website a few
times, I now "monitor" it - shades of Big Brother out to get you.
> It's very simple. People who genuinly want their money back because of their
> disappointment with the software get their money back.
I commend the spirit of that...
> But I removed it from my site because since I came with political statements
> here, some sick fucks thought they could screw me over by asking their money
> back. The most contemptible thing imaginable, but hey, zero point something
> percent of my customers are that way.
> They see it as a nice way to screw someone over guilty of ThoughtCrime.
... and of course if you make such a black and white offer, some people
will adhere to the letter of it but not the spirit of it.
[snip the usual]
--
Chris
Ted S.
Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:45:18 GMT:
> If I were like you I'd call you a fucking liar now.
I wouldn't. What woman in her right mind would want to get laid with
somebody like Frank?
Frank de Groot
> Of course in your world, because I've looked at your website a few
> times, I now "monitor" it - shades of Big Brother out to get you.
I thought that "monitoring" meant "regularly looking at".
Not: "conspiratorially shadow".
But I can be mistaken. I'm not a native speaker of English.
> I commend the spirit of that...
It's plain common business sense.
> ... and of course if you make such a black and white offer, some people
> will adhere to the letter of it but not the spirit of it.
I think one month is enough. So far two asked their money back.
Both due to a personal dislike of my person, not of the software.
I gave #1 his money beck because he asked it right away.
#2 was offered his money back half a year after purchase.
The guy was utterly clueless as to the purpose of the software (instant
pattern search and statistical move likelihood + examples)
Suddenly, after eleven months, becaue he decided he doesn't like me, he
wants his money back.
I wonder how evolution works. I mean, I understand that utter shameless
selfishness gives one an evolutional advantage.
But when it gets out of control (mutation?), doesn't society kick in (by
kicking the the guy's skull in, for ex.)?
Unbelievable.
Imagine you buy a washing machine, and after a year you decide you don't
like the investment portfolio of the major share holder of the manufacturer,
and you'll ask your money back.. They would laugh their heads off at so much
brazen egecentric imbecility.
KoKs
Hi Mr.Frank,
I agree with you that that guy AWater is such a fucking asshole.Well, i
know quite well what you feel about him .I am a Vietnamese,so i know
the plagiarism in those "undeveloped" countries like
Vietnam,China,Cambodian,etc is considered "right". Every body in my
country(or China) buy and sell softwares which are hacked by some guys
without purchasing money (for example, Microsoft Window,Microsoft
Office).You have to spend HUNDREDS of dollar to buy ONE software,but we
need only ONE DOLLAR to buy ONE HUNDRED of softwares.Also,ppl in
Vietnam or China usually approve the act of plagiarizing other
programmers' sources and they think that who do so is wise.You cant
imprison all of the plagiarized ppl because the whole countries(Vietnam
and China) are the follower of plagiarism.
The only one thing you can do is to tell publicly that AWater
plagiarism your software and pursuade ppl to buy yours to have
life-time updating.
I have never used Stone Base yet.But the act of ripping another person
software's source is shameful.Well,he is not a love-go-crazy guy.He is
doing harm GO MORAL and PHILOSOPHY.
Frank de Groot
> Hi Mr.Frank,
> I agree with you that that guy AWater is such a fucking asshole.
Thanks.
The really nasty thing is that he posted a message here, trying to destroy
my business by saying I am a big software pirate.
That makes it a matter of principle for me to take it very seriously. It's
one thing to steal other programmer's software, it's another thing to try to
utterly destroy that programmer's livelihood. So the guy is not just
"naive", on the contrary, he is a calculating crook of the worst kind.
For the rest, I have no problem with piracy of my software in China. (I mean
copying.) But what he did is out of line.
Planar
"Peterium" <power...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Copyright is there for a reason, nothing is automatically copyrighted.
> You actually have to go register whatever you're trying to copyright,
> and pay a fee. Before you do that, nothing is really copyrighted.
Completely wrong. May I suggest that you read a little bit about
copyright laws and international treaties?
A few seconds of googling and you find these:
< http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/Copyright >
< http://www.law.cornell.edu/treaties/berne/overview.html >
From the former:
Under current law, works are covered whether or not a copyright
notice is attached and whether or not the work is registered.
--
Planar
remove .invalid from my address to send me mail
"I really couldn't care less about Japanese rules." - Chris Lawrence
davos
Frank de Groot schreef:
I'd say that your own abundant abusive postings in this newsgroup are
more damaging to your business than anything else. Almost any potential
customer who would happen to read them would think twice before buying
your product (however good it may be).
Dave
Frank de Groot
> I'd say that your own abundant abusive postings in this newsgroup are
> more damaging to your business than anything else. Almost any potential
> customer who would happen to read them would think twice before buying
> your product (however good it may be).
I sold 17 copies in August 2005.
Last August I sold 22 copies.
So reality might not fit your theory, because since August last year, I have
been engaged in more vigorous "debates" here.
If you were thinking about going into business - well - don't quit your day
job.
There is almost /nobody/ who would give a flying fuck as to what kind of
person the author of some software is.
Nobody.
People who buy gasoline do not care that Saudi Arabia tortures people who
want more democracy in that country.
Neither do Go players care what kind of words I use to defend myself against
slanderous people.
Sure, there have been a dozen or so that thought they could /intimidate/ me
by "being very sure" that I won't make sales because I am not /polite/
enough, but my sales figures say otherwise.
I do many experiments (Google Adwords, changing availability of a freeware
version, availability of my blog, forum, design changes in website, not
posting here for a while etc.).
There is ZERO negative effect of me posting here. Zero. In fact there have
been occasions that I have been unfairly attacked here and I have defended
mysefl ,and sales shot up, temporarily.
So you can join the ranks of those who are too stingy to spend money on good
Go software and you can justify it by telling yourself that it is because
you do not like /me/.
I hope you are a vegetarian, dienstweigeraar, don't own a car and generally
are a saint, because if you aren't, you're making quite a spectacle of
yourself here, anonymous clown.
marc gonzalez-carnicer
Frank de Groot ha escrit:
> "davos" <pra...@hotmail.com> wrote>
>
> There is almost /nobody/ who would give a flying fuck as to what kind of
> person the author of some software is.
> Nobody.
>
you are wrong. i am one. and there are more.
> People who buy gasoline do not care that Saudi Arabia tortures people who
> want more democracy in that country.
>
your example is totally wrong. saudi arabia government does
not publish ads on interantional newspapers or tvs with pix of
the tortured people. you are flooding us with your paranoia
every single day.
>
> I hope you are a vegetarian, dienstweigeraar, don't own a car and generally
> are a saint, because if you aren't, you're making quite a spectacle of
> yourself here, anonymous clown.
see what i mean?
davos
Frank de Groot schreef:
> "davos" <pra...@hotmail.com> wrote>
>
> I hope you are a vegetarian, dienstweigeraar, don't own a car and generally
> are a saint, because if you aren't, you're making quite a spectacle of
> yourself here, anonymous clown.
So your point is: nobody is a saint so it is ok to be the opposite?
That is an easy way out.
Dave
Ted S.
wrote at Sun, 22 Oct 2006 22:18:25 GMT:
>> People who buy gasoline do not care that Saudi Arabia tortures
>> people who want more democracy in that country.
>>
>
> your example is totally wrong. saudi arabia government does
> not publish ads on interantional newspapers or tvs with pix of
> the tortured people. you are flooding us with your paranoia
> every single day.
>
Never mind the fact that there are people who want economic sanctions
against certain countries (eg. PRC) that don't live up to some human
rights standards.
Vit Brunner
> There is almost /nobody/ who would give a flying fuck as to what kind of
> person the author of some software is.
> Nobody.
Me.
> Neither do Go players care what kind of words I use to defend myself against
> slanderous people.
I do.
> So you can join the ranks of those who are too stingy to spend money on good
> Go software and you can justify it by telling yourself that it is because
> you do not like /me/.
It's not because we do not like you, it's because you behave very
arrogantly all the time.
> I hope you are a vegetarian, dienstweigeraar, don't own a car and generally
> are a saint, because if you aren't, you're making quite a spectacle of
> yourself here, anonymous clown.
Again, davos is well-known in the go community, I have met him and I
know who he is. He is not anonymous clown. "Frank de Groot", on the
other hand, could very well be just a chatbot...
Have a nice day,
Vit
Frank de Groot
> So your point is: nobody is a saint so it is ok to be the opposite?
> That is an easy way out.
My point is that I do not believe you when you claim you will not buy my
software because you think I am not a nice person.
Because I have a hard time believing you are 100% self-sufficient, living
off the produce you grow yourself, making your own clothes etc. becasue
NOTHING is produced by "nice" people or "nice" corporations. So I'm saying
you're fooling yourself, not me.
Frank de Groot
>> Neither do Go players care what kind of words I use to defend myself
>> against
>> slanderous people.
>
> I do.
Perhaps you belong to that small group (5%?) of people that simpy are
assholes?
I mean I sold 400 copies, say 5% of people are assholes, so I lost 20 sales.
Then again, there are also perhaps 5% of people who decided to buy my
software because they like the way I make a stand against wars of agression
and don't care that not a single Republican might buy my stuff, etc.
I have never cared too much about money and I certainly won't censor my
opinion about ethics.
And the last thing I want si whining customers. If you whine about my
language, I fear the worst what will happen when you get my software. Thanks
but no thanks. There are tens of millions of Go players on this planet, I am
only interested in people who are reasonable mentally stable as customers -
I'm busy enough as it is. Last holiday season I sold almost 100 copies.
So I wish you success in your further Go career/studies - without my
software.
> It's not because we do not like you, it's because you behave very
> arrogantly all the time.
Baloney.
You are the one who is arrogant.
When I made self-restrainted posting recently, you found it necessary to
say: "You forgot the insults".
It's YOU who's stirring the pot, slimeball.
And if the're ANYONE *not* arrogant, it's me. ESPECIALLY when it's about my
software.
Look at the release notes, for example. fix, fix, fix, fix. All the time
admission of not being perfect.
On a daily basis. On a daily basis I am forced to admit I am not perfect, at
least to my customers.
> Again, davos is well-known in the go community, I have met him and I
> know who he is. He is not anonymous clown.
Oh yes he is. To me he is. I only know him from that message he posted here.
It was an anonymous troll.
> "Frank de Groot", on the
> other hand, could very well be just a chatbot...
How old were you again?
Frank de Groot
There is almost /nobody/ who would give a flying fuck as to what kind of
>> person the author of some software is.
>> Nobody.
>>
>
> you are wrong. i am one. and there are more.
No, YOU are wrong.
Go get your schoolmoney back, or get better glasses.
For a professor you're mighty weak at either logic, statistics or the
English language.
(I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because all points to the fact that
you're merely employing a vulgar discussion trick, which would make you
unethical, which is the only real crime)
I said: "There is almost /nobody/ who would give a flying fuck as to what
kind of person the author of some software is."
Of course I'm talking about relative numbers, not absolute. All that counts
for me is percentages.
If 1% does not buy because they don't like to be talked back to, because
they expect anyone they give money to to be their sperm-swallowing whore,
then good riddance to them.
Especially if 2% extra buys because they like a person who doesn't take shit
from anybody and is not afraid to say what he thinks about controversial
topics that might cost him sales.
You being a teacher, perhaps you're familiar with the expression: "Those who
can, do - those who can't, teach".
While not generally true *at all*, it appears that you have stood model for
this expression, otherwise you would not confuse "absolute" with "relative".
>> People who buy gasoline do not care that Saudi Arabia tortures people who
>> want more democracy in that country.
>>
>
> your example is totally wrong. saudi arabia government does
> not publish ads on interantional newspapers or tvs with pix of
> the tortured people. you are flooding us with your paranoia
> every single day.
Bologna.
Everybody knows that SA is a nasty regime.
You know it. And still you buy their products.
So you admit that you are an unethical bastard, and as long as people are
your sperm-swallowing whores, take your money and don't bother you,
everything is OK?
You disgust me.
People like you should not be allowed to teach, to be around young,
impressionable people.
Frank de Groot
> Never mind the fact that there are people who want economic sanctions
> against certain countries (eg. PRC) that don't live up to some human
> rights standards.
Yes. That is their good right and perhaps a good idea.
But it's a small percentage.
Most people want cheap clothes from China, or a nice new pair of lungs, etc.
The irony is that I am not a bad person at all.
It's just you imagining things.
Many people I meet ask to be my friend.
Wherever I go, I meet people and they INSIST on being my friend.
I seem to give a very different impression face-to-face.
This is because face-to-face, I do not meet anynymous people telling me what
an asshole I am.
Strange, isn't it? The anonymous people on the internet who have mental
problems, don't like me.
/Real/ people howver, do like me.
I worked two years as a divemaster. I had around two thousand people under
my care, under water.
They kept coming back, I was the highest paid divemaster because they said:
"We feel safe with him, you can't talk under water but he is such a caring
person".
I have news for you. The Internet is not the physical world.
When you tell someone in the real world he's an asshole, he can ignore you
when he's Norwegian, but when he's Scottish, he might kick the shit out of
you.
So you - clever/coward as you are, won't tell unknown people that they are
assholes.
But you do that on Usenet. And expect people will simply take your abuse and
roll over.
Nope, it doesn't work that way. You are a coward, therefore you insult
people anonymously on the Internet.
And you are a whining coward, because you start complaining to mommie when
someone turns out to be intellectually/verbally superior to you.
Because then your bullying cravings go unsatisfied. Tough luck. It satisfies
me tremendously to deny someone like you the fruit of my labor. I want only
nice people to enjoy what I have been struggling for years to make. If I
could somehow dany all unethical people my work, I would do so.
(And if it were possible for me to give away my work for free to all ethical
Go players, I would also do so.)
Vit Brunner
Frank de Groot wrote:
> Perhaps you belong to that small group (5%?) of people that simpy are
> assholes?
Rule #1 strikes again :)
> When I made self-restrainted posting recently, you found it necessary to
> say: "You forgot the insults".
> It's YOU who's stirring the pot, slimeball.
Congrats on not forgetting now.
> And if the're ANYONE *not* arrogant, it's me. ESPECIALLY when it's about my
> software.
Yeah, sure, you would never ever be arrogant...
> > Again, davos is well-known in the go community, I have met him and I
> > know who he is. He is not anonymous clown.
>
> Oh yes he is. To me he is. I only know him from that message he posted here.
> It was an anonymous troll.
But that's your own ignorance. He is not hiding, he uses this nickname
everywhere and if you want you can easily find out who he is (also, for
example, by asking him, but that never occured to you I guess, it's
easier to call him a clown).
Frank de Groot
> But that's your own ignorance. He is not hiding, he uses this nickname
> everywhere and if you want you can easily find out who he is (also, for
> example, by asking him, but that never occured to you I guess, it's
> easier to call him a clown).
Perhaps it's a cultural thing. I lived for the past 6 years in Norway (time
flies!).
In Norway, it is a violation of TOS not to sign each and every email and
Usenet posting with your full, real name.
With all ISP's.
Posting one single Usenet posting without full first- and surname is grounds
for immediate termination of the account without warning.
Why? Because people who post anonymously are up to no good.
And this is demonstrated by "davos". Someone criticising others behind the
veil of anonymity.
Sure, when you dedicate enough time and effort, almost anyone can be tracked
down, including those using remailers.
But it should not be necessary. Common decency requires that you don't shout
abuse to people from the shadows.
You can not expect that people find it acceptable to have to do detective
work WHO insults them, when insulted.
It is up to the insulting party to provide the insultee with sufficient
information for the insultee to judge validity of the insult (like, is it a
little insane child, is it jb etc.)
Also, for legal purposes, when being slandered by someone, it's nice to know
WHO did so.
A moniker is NOT a legal name. And anyone can use anyone else's moniker
legally.
But when I post as "Vit Brunner", at least here in Norway I'm just a lawsuit
away from a hefty fine or even jailtime, depending on what I posted.
Anonymous = Coward. You want to call people names, but you are afraid to
defend your position, when push comes to shove.
You are scared that people know who you are. Because you know you have a
propensity for being wrong, and being wrong publicly.
This is why most assholes on the Internet use monikers. Only a tiny minority
are investigative journalists threatened by totalitarian regimes. The rest
are assholes.
You are to be commended for not using a moniker.
You are an asshole that does not use a moniker.
Meaning, you don't know yet that you /are/ an asshole (you are not ashamed
of it yet).
Vit Brunner
> In Norway, it is a violation of TOS not to sign each and every email and
> Usenet posting with your full, real name.
> With all ISP's.
Thank god I don't live in Norway.
> And this is demonstrated by "davos". Someone criticising others behind the
> veil of anonymity.
He was trying to help you, but you always fail to realize that someone
is trying to help you.
> You are an asshole that does not use a moniker.
Never... never forget to insult!
Have a nice day,
tasuki
Frank de Groot
> Thank god I don't live in Norway.
Soon you will. In fact, you already do.
Since Czechia joined the EU, all sale of vitamins and minerals have become
illegal in your country.
It's called the "Codex Alimentarius".
You will be 100% subdued and absorbed by the Borg.
All Your Base Are Belong To The EU.
Norway is under the crushing domination of the EU, Czechia too, but you just
haven't realized it yet.
In the US, the FDA arrested with use of extreme force (20 "Ninja" guys with
assault rifles) someone who sold vitamins. (vitamin A, C, B complex etc.)
Because that is a federal crime under Codex Alimentarius.
There is no such thing as "Norway" or "Czechia" any more.
And you will soon be forced - with military force by your own police - to
comply 100% to all and any EU rules, including the arrest and incarceration
of anyone selling vitamin C above the dose that has no measurable effect.
Instead of reproaching me for using swear words, stand up to those who have
just invaded your country.
Fool.
-
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> You being a teacher, perhaps you're familiar with the expression:
> "Those who can, do - those who can't, teach". While not generally true
> *at all*, it appears that you have stood model for this expression,
> otherwise you would not confuse "absolute" with "relative".
Well, Frank, are you _play-acting_ as "teacher" there ... ?
If your students find you disgusting your classroom will be hell.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> My point is that I do not believe you when you claim you will not
> buy my software because you think I am not a nice person.
Frank, the issue is whether they acquire it via purchase or via `p2p'.
If they find you disgusting they'll find ways around giving you money.
> Because I have a hard time believing you are 100% self-sufficient,
> living off the produce you grow yourself, making your own clothes etc.
> becasue NOTHING is produced by "nice" people or "nice" corporations.
> So I'm saying you're fooling yourself, not me.
Did Frank build his own computer out of manure and compost ?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> Baloney.
> You are the one who is arrogant.
Arrogant also means "unwarranted", Frank...
>> "Frank de Groot", on the other hand, could very well be just a chatbot...
> How old were you again?
Isn't this what chatbots say ?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> I said: "There is almost /nobody/ who would give a flying fuck as
> to what kind of person the author of some software is."
Conversely, there is almost /nobody/ who would give a f__f__ as
to whether some software product were distributed via `p2p' sharing.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> Strange, isn't it? The anonymous people on the internet who
> have mental problems, don't like me.
Mental problems are more often associated with the Napoleonic
complex, not with anonymity. Perhaps they opted for anonymity on
account of you, Frank. Ever think about that?
> /Real/ people howver, do like me.
Anonymous people are /real/, too, Frank. Has nothing to do with
whether they like you or whether you are intrinsically likeable.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> In the US, the FDA arrested with use of extreme force (20 "Ninja"
> guys with assault rifles) someone who sold vitamins. (vitamin A, C,
> B complex etc.) Because that is a federal crime under Codex Alimentarius.
Cite ?
> "-" <jazze...@hotmail.com> wrote
>> Have those people step forward to a debate. I'm sharpening my knives...
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> Sorry but you already lost. HAHAHAHA
Lost before starting ? Never heard of rebuttal ?
- regards
- jb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Israel Founded With Fake British Banknotes
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10471
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank de Groot
> Frank, the issue is whether they acquire it via purchase or via `p2p'.
> If they find you disgusting they'll find ways around giving you money.
If you don't stop threatening software publishers with crimes, I will do
something about you.
> Did Frank build his own computer out of manure and compost ?
That's besides the point, imbecile.
The OP claimed to be a saint, not I.
> Conversely, there is almost /nobody/ who would give a f__f__ as
> to whether some software product were distributed via `p2p' sharing.
If you don't stop threatening software publishers with crimes, I will do
something about you.
Denis Feldmann
> "-" <jazze...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
>> Frank, the issue is whether they acquire it via purchase or via `p2p'.
>> If they find you disgusting they'll find ways around giving you money.
>
> If you don't stop threatening software publishers with crimes, I will do
> something about you.
Oh, *please* do something. Especially about jb. We have all awaited this
moment for so long...
(There is a classical story of Nasreddin on that theme : One day Hodja
went to the market together with his donkey. He couldn't take his donkey
inside the market building, so he tied him up, next to a lot of other
donkeys. Hodja went shopping on the market. He bought everything he
needed. Then he returned to get his donkey, but the donkey wasn't where
he had tied him up. Hodja yelled and screamed and threatened the people
with this: 'I'll return in 15 minutes and if my donkey isn't here, I'll
do what my father did 15 years ago!' He turned back into the market. The
people who heard him and his threat looked and looked. After 15 minutes
Hodja returned and saw his donkey standing on it's right place. A
bystander asked Hodja what he was going to do if the donkey wasn't back.
Hodja replied: 'Like my father, 15 years ago, I would go home by foot.')
>
>
>> Did Frank build his own computer out of manure and compost ?
>
> That's besides the point, imbecile.
> The OP claimed to be a saint, not I.
>
>
>> Conversely, there is almost /nobody/ who would give a f__f__ as
>> to whether some software product were distributed via `p2p' sharing.
>
>
> If you don't stop threatening software publishers with crimes, I will do
> something about you.
You said it once, you said it twice. What you say three times must be
true (Caroll's Snark's hunt, of course)
>
Frank de Groot
> Hodja returned and saw his donkey standing on it's right place.
It's its. Not it's.
Vit Brunner
> "-" <jazze...@hotmail.com> wrote
> > Frank, the issue is whether they acquire it via purchase or via `p2p'.
> > If they find you disgusting they'll find ways around giving you money.
>
> If you don't stop threatening software publishers with crimes, I will do
> something about you.
Ummm, jb is not threatening you, he is merely stating a fact about some
people...
-
> "-" <jazze...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Frank, the issue is whether they acquire it via purchase or via `p2p'.
>> If they find you disgusting they'll find ways around giving you money.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> If you don't stop threatening software publishers with crimes,
> I will do something about you.
Sigh. There's just no way to conduct friendly discourse with you
about the nature of threats that face all software publishers. And once
you have closed off any possibility of reception via private email, you
have forced any discussion of this nature onto a public newsgroup.
>> "Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
>>> ... I have a hard time believing you are 100% self-sufficient,
>>> living off the produce you grow yourself, making your own clothes etc.
>>> becasue NOTHING is produced by "nice" people or "nice" corporations.
>>> So I'm saying you're fooling yourself, not me.
> "-" <jazze...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Did Frank build his own computer out of manure and compost ?
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> That's besides the point, imbecile. The OP claimed to be a saint, not I.
It seems to bear upon the claim to self-sufficiency, which simply
does not occur w/r/t acquisition of fundamental high-technology items.
>>> I said: "There is almost /nobody/ who would give a flying fuck as
>>> to what kind of person the author of some software is."
>> Conversely, there is almost /nobody/ who would give a f__f__ as
>> to whether some software product were distributed via `p2p' sharing.
> If you don't stop threatening software publishers with crimes,
> I will do something about you.
What goes around comes around, Frank. I am discussing
the -problem- of `p2p' sharing, not proposing here to invoke it.
We already know that good people do good things for goodness'
sake, not for the purpose of rewards or fear of financial retribution.
-----------------------------------------------
> "Denis Feldmann" wrote:
>> Hodja returned and saw his donkey standing on it's right place.
"Frank de Groot" <fr...@moyogo.com> wrote:
> It's its. Not it's.
Actually it's donkey tits. Argumentum ab typum, Frank ... ?
- regards
- jb
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Israel Must Open Up Its Nuclear Programme for IAEA Inspection
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=10476
------------------------------------------------------------------------