AD&D2 More Rulings Questions
hunt...@iscsvax.uni.edu
Here are some other rulings questions to think about/comment on:
1. A wizard of 10th level casts water breathing. Can he/she cast most spells
underwater? (Subject to DMG Restrictions for underwater spell use)Or
must he/she use airy water to cast any spells?
2. The same wizard is underwater near a ship and casts passwall on the hull of
a ship(Below the waterline), does the ship sink?
3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a table in
a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
the character become visible?
4. PH2 Transmute rock to mud: this spells turns "any natural stone" into mud.
Does this include worked stone, such as city walls, etc.? (yes IMHO)
5. Does the Stoneskin spell pose problems for any other groups/DM's out there?
Our group ended up limiting it to the caster only. (and his/her familiar, if
applicable).
6. Has anyone looked at the ramifications of the 1st level wizard spell
metamorphose liquids in the Tome of Magic? This could ruin whole economies,
since the material component is a DROP of whatever is to be made, and a lot of
water(approx. 8 gallons per level of the caster). This could make a fine,
expensive, wine cheaper than normal ale. Has anyone come up with a solution
for this "problem"?
7. Regarding a Mirror of Opposition: The DMG2 says that anyone who's image is
reflected in the mirror gets an exact duplicate of him/her complete with all
items. Does the victim have to acually see his/her reflection? If the victim
uses a Succor to leave, will the image use it's succor to follow? If the
victim teleports out, does the image have a good chance of guessing the
destination of the victim and also teleporting there to continue the battle?
If the mirror is broken does the image disappear? How fast are the images
formed? One per round or all at the same time? If the mirror is reduced in
size, are the images also reduced? Does the mirror create duplicates of
invisible people, since invisibility is an illusion and the mirror is
un-intelligent (According to most reasoning)? If duplicates are created are
they invisible? Do they know where their opponent is by instinct?
SITUATION: The mirror is covered after the duplicate is formed. The battle
ends and the victim beats his duplicate. The mirror is the uncovered again.
QUESTIONS: Can the mirror be covered during combat? Or does the duplicate
derive "life" from the mirror? If the mirror is uncovered again does a new
duplicate form?
8. Elves get a +1 with bow or sword. Why can't Elvish single class mages use
their racially preferred weapon? An elvish slinger is a little wierd IMHO.
That's all for now. We'll think of more as we come across them.
Thanks for any and all opinions expressed.
------
mike
BTW/NMA/UWP/FSH
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Eternal Victim of | This | Remember: you're still
the Red Baron! | Space | moving forward even when
Shot Down in | For | you're falling flat
Flames Again! | Rent | on your face.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: This is all a poorly designed illusion. It's easily disbelieved.
Thomas Aaron Insel
>Here are some other rulings questions to think about/comment on:
>1. A wizard of 10th level casts water breathing. Can he/she cast most spells
>underwater? (Subject to DMG Restrictions for underwater spell use)Or
>must he/she use airy water to cast any spells?
If it has a verbal component, I would require airy water.
>2. The same wizard is underwater near a ship and casts passwall on the hull of
>a ship(Below the waterline), does the ship sink?
I would probably say yes, if used in limited cases, for specific reasons. If
players try to use it wholesale, some impracticality should pop up.
>3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a table in
>a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
>the character become visible?
Yes. The rule exists for game balance, not for game realism, so any actions
intended to harm someone should cause visibility.
>4. PH2 Transmute rock to mud: this spells turns "any natural stone" into mud.
>Does this include worked stone, such as city walls, etc.? (yes IMHO)
Yes.
>5. Does the Stoneskin spell pose problems for any other groups/DM's out there?
>Our group ended up limiting it to the caster only. (and his/her familiar, if
>applicable).
I don't see a problem, but of course this is GM's perogative, as is everything.
>6. Has anyone looked at the ramifications of the 1st level wizard spell
>metamorphose liquids in the Tome of Magic? This could ruin whole economies,
>since the material component is a DROP of whatever is to be made, and a lot of
>water(approx. 8 gallons per level of the caster). This could make a fine,
>expensive, wine cheaper than normal ale. Has anyone come up with a solution
>for this "problem"?
I'm stuck, except that one should remember that in a fair game, it's awfully
hard to become a high-level mage, and that most mages have better stuff to
do than memorize metamorphose liquids for all their 1st slots.
>7. Regarding a Mirror of Opposition: The DMG2 says that anyone who's image is
>reflected in the mirror gets an exact duplicate of him/her complete with all
>items. Does the victim have to acually see his/her reflection? If the victim
>uses a Succor to leave, will the image use it's succor to follow? If the
>victim teleports out, does the image have a good chance of guessing the
>destination of the victim and also teleporting there to continue the battle?
>If the mirror is broken does the image disappear? How fast are the images
>formed? One per round or all at the same time? If the mirror is reduced in
>size, are the images also reduced? Does the mirror create duplicates of
>invisible people, since invisibility is an illusion and the mirror is
>un-intelligent (According to most reasoning)? If duplicates are created are
>they invisible? Do they know where their opponent is by instinct?
>SITUATION: The mirror is covered after the duplicate is formed. The battle
>ends and the victim beats his duplicate. The mirror is the uncovered again.
>QUESTIONS: Can the mirror be covered during combat? Or does the duplicate
>derive "life" from the mirror? If the mirror is uncovered again does a new
>duplicate form?
I would say 1 duplicate/person (it seems logical that he must see his own
reflection), which follows him forever until it kills/is killed. Covering
and uncovering the mirror shouldn't create a new duplicate--it makes the
mirror far too powerful. If doing something to the mirror does affect the
duplicate remember that the mirror is magical, and thus more resistant to
damage.
>8. Elves get a +1 with bow or sword. Why can't Elvish single class mages use
>their racially preferred weapon? An elvish slinger is a little wierd IMHO.
Game balance. Bows, especially in the hands of an elf, are very effective
weapons, and do much more damage than weapons normally allowed to mages.
--
Thomas Aaron Insel (tin...@uiuc.edu)
s-mail: URH 227 Saunders, 906 W. College, Urbana IL 61801
I speak for myself, and not for the State or University of Illinois.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty." -- Edward R. Murrow
Kevin T Stiner
1. I WOULD SAY ONLY MATERIAL COMPONENT SPELLS WHERE THE COMPONENTS ARE
NOT DESTROYED BY WATER. (NOT TOO MANY OF THOSE)
2. IF I ALLOWED THE CASTING OF THE SPELL, I WOULD SAY YES.
3. NO. I LOOK AT INVISIBILITY AS PERSON TO PERSON CONTACT ONLY. IF THAT
INVISIBLE PERSON DID NOT TOUCH THE OTHER PERSON, THAN HE/SHE WOULD NOT
BECOME VISIBLE.
4. I THINK I WOULD ALLOW FOR THAT SPELL TO WORK ON THAT (IT IS PRETTY
HIGH LEVEL ANYWAY)
5. I COULD SEE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WITH ACCESS USE OF THIS SPELL. I WOULD
EITHER DO THE SAME OR JUST NOT GIVE IT OUT AS A SPELL PERIOD.
6. PUT A DURATION ON THE SPELL. PERHAPS 1 TURN PER LEVEL.
7. I WOULD SAY IN THIS ORDER: YES, YES, NO, YES, ONE PER ROUND, YES, NO
(INVISIBILITY IS ONLY A COVER, THE MIRROR WILL CREATE AN INVISIBLE IMAGE),
NO, I WOULD LIMIT TO ONLY ONE DUPLICATE (PER PERSON) WHO DERIVES "LIFE"
FROM THE MIRROR. IT CAN BE COVERED DURING COMBAT (IT WOULD BE AN EASY
THING TO DO FOR ANOTHER PARTY MEMBER)
8. I WOULD ALLOW THIS ONLY IF THE PLAYER ASKED ME FIRST.
KEVIN T. STINER
Brian Brunner
hunt...@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
|>
|> Here are some other rulings questions to think about/comment on:
|>
|> 1. A wizard of 10th level casts water breathing. Can he/she cast
most spells
|> underwater? (Subject to DMG Restrictions for underwater spell use)Or
|> must he/she use airy water to cast any spells?
Airy Water allows component handling, water breathing does not.
V & V/S spells should work. VSM might not. Depends on the M.
|>
|> 2. The same wizard is underwater near a ship and casts passwall on
the hull of
|> a ship(Below the waterline), does the ship sink?
It least it takes on water...
but if a speedy cleric casts Lower Water, they might be OK.
|>
|> 3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a
table in
|> a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's
glass(intentionally). Does
|> the character become visible?
This depends pn the GMs opinion of what constitutes an attack. I'd say
yes.
|>
|> 4. PH2 Transmute rock to mud: this spells turns "any natural stone"
into mud.
|> Does this include worked stone, such as city walls, etc.? (yes IMHO)
DMs differ... what is an unnatural stone? Wall of Stone, and what else?
|>
|> 5. Does the Stoneskin spell pose problems for any other groups/DM's
out there?
|> Our group ended up limiting it to the caster only. (and his/her
familiar, if
|> applicable).
No problem... Attacks don't have to hit to peel off layers of 'Skin...
and give the spell to the enemy...
And render people with 'Skin on them unable to feel normal things...
so thief skills and mage spell casting are badly hurt.
|> That's all for now. We'll think of more as we come across them.
|> Thanks for any and all opinions expressed.
|>
|>
|> ------
|> mike
|> BTW/NMA/UWP/FSH
|>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|> Eternal Victim of | This | Remember: you're still
|> the Red Baron! | Space | moving forward even
when
|> Shot Down in | For | you're falling flat
|> Flames Again! | Rent | on your face.
|>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|> Disclaimer: This is all a poorly designed illusion. It's easily
disbelieved.
--
HELP!! Somebody slapped a "stop payment" on my sanity check!!
bru...@kazoo.ssd.loral.com; Space Systems/Loral; Palo Alto, Calif.
Black Holes... the /dev/null of the Universe; the opinion of 65534.
George Heintzelman
The following would be my rulings...(Note: I'm using 2nd edition...)
>
>1. A wizard of 10th level casts water breathing. Can he/she cast most spells
>underwater? (Subject to DMG Restrictions for underwater spell use)Or
>must he/she use airy water to cast any spells?
>
The wizard can cast spells...airy water is intended as a spell for
multiple players.
>2. The same wizard is underwater near a ship and casts passwall on the hull of
>a ship(Below the waterline), does the ship sink?
>
Yes. The passage is open until the wizard dispells it.
>3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a table in
>a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
>the character become visible?
Hmm....that's an interesting one, depends on how you think the
dispelling of invisibility works. Obviously, the dispelling is
intended as a game balance thing, so looking at it from that angle, I
don't think that this really violates that problem. I'd allow it.
>
>4. PH2 Transmute rock to mud: this spells turns "any natural stone" into mud.
>Does this include worked stone, such as city walls, etc.? (yes IMHO)
>
Yes, definitely. What is not included is magically conjured stone, eg
Wall of Stone spell, or stone elemental-type creatures.
>5. Does the Stoneskin spell pose problems for any other groups/DM's out there?
>Our group ended up limiting it to the caster only. (and his/her familiar, if
>applicable).
>
Hmmm...my groups mage doesn't have this spell, so I hadn't
noticed it. It IS 4th level, so I think its OK to allow it to be cast
on others, especially since any decent fighting will destroy the
protection quickly (note that unsuccessful attacks still count). I
would limit the spell by making it wear off in 24 hours regardless of
attacks, and disallowing multiple stoneskin spells at one time.
>6. Has anyone looked at the ramifications of the 1st level wizard spell
>metamorphose liquids in the Tome of Magic? This could ruin whole economies,
>since the material component is a DROP of whatever is to be made, and a lot of
>water(approx. 8 gallons per level of the caster). This could make a fine,
>expensive, wine cheaper than normal ale. Has anyone come up with a solution
>for this "problem"?
Well, this could be a problem in a magic-heavy world where
mages regularly hire out there services for such trivial matters.
(don't have the Tome of magic, so I don't know the details, but...) 8
gallons isn't all that much, you need a high level caster to make that
really effective, or a low-level one continually casting it, and I
seriously doubt that such mages a) come cheap; b) are willing to waste
their valuable time replicating wine. (For their own personall
cellars, well, that's different... :) I don't see this as a real
problem in any but the most magic-heavy realms; you could cut the amount
if you wanted.
>
>7. Regarding a Mirror of Opposition: The DMG2 says that anyone who's image is
>reflected in the mirror gets an exact duplicate of him/her complete with all
>items. Does the victim have to acually see his/her reflection? If the victim
>uses a Succor to leave, will the image use it's succor to follow? If the
>victim teleports out, does the image have a good chance of guessing the
>destination of the victim and also teleporting there to continue the battle?
>If the mirror is broken does the image disappear? How fast are the images
>formed? One per round or all at the same time? If the mirror is reduced in
>size, are the images also reduced? Does the mirror create duplicates of
>invisible people, since invisibility is an illusion and the mirror is
>un-intelligent (According to most reasoning)? If duplicates are created are
>they invisible? Do they know where their opponent is by instinct?
>SITUATION: The mirror is covered after the duplicate is formed. The battle
>ends and the victim beats his duplicate. The mirror is the uncovered again.
>QUESTIONS: Can the mirror be covered during combat? Or does the duplicate
>derive "life" from the mirror? If the mirror is uncovered again does a new
>duplicate form?
>
No, the victim does not have to see its reflection (but that's really
up to the DM.)
DM's option as to whether the duplicate actually does follow or not,
in all the cases. Succor its definitely possible. Teleporting out,
I'd say it depends on how obvious a location was chosen.
Effect of breaking depends on how the DM wants to run it. Me,
I'd probably allow it, but make breaking the Mirror MUCH harder than
for a normal mirror.
Creation: probably I'd do it at the rate of one per round, but
once you're reflected, you are GOING to be duplicated.
As to a reduced mirror, I'd say it probably does not reduce
the duplicates, but the ENTIRE target must be seen in order to be
reflected.
Duplicates of invisibles are not formed, at least not
according to the DMG2---only things reflected are duplicated, and
invisible creatures are not (normally) reflected in mirrors. If you
make one that does crate them, I'd probably create them invisible; no
they would NOT know where their target was, though they might know
where he/she started.
I would probably allow a given mirror to create only one
duplicate of a person per day.
All of the above are VERY DM dependent; you can, of course,
make any such mirror do exactly what you want it to do.
>8. Elves get a +1 with bow or sword. Why can't Elvish single class mages use
>their racially preferred weapon? An elvish slinger is a little wierd IMHO.
>
Because (as with all other single-class mages) they concentrate too
much on the magical arts to have time to effectively learn to wield so
difficult a weapon as a sword.
>That's all for now. We'll think of more as we come across them.
>Thanks for any and all opinions expressed.
You're welcome.
George Heintzelman
Russ Taylor
>>a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
>>the character become visible?
>
>Yes. The rule exists for game balance, not for game realism, so any actions
>intended to harm someone should cause visibility.
>
spice. This clealrly wouldn't be an attack. So poison shouldn't be either,
unless the spell has a _incredible_ amount of discretion., IT IS
an issue of realism -- excessive worries about game balance kill the fun of
the game.
Russ "old-fashioned gamer" Taylor
--
*********************************************************
*From the files of Russ Taylor (rta...@cie.uoregon.edu)*
* This .sig protected by Siguard 9.2 and VirusKill 2.5 *
*********************************************************
the DM
(BUT do not hold me to this I don't have the phb with me or memorized)
that it will ONLY work with rock, that is to say it will only open up
a passage in natural rock. That would indicate that it could not sink
this ship unless said ship is made of rock,
Patrick Ellis
THE DM
Scott Mayo
hunt...@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
>1. A wizard of 10th level casts water breathing. Can he/she cast most spells
>underwater? (Subject to DMG Restrictions for underwater spell use)Or
>must he/she use airy water to cast any spells?
On a case-by-case basis. I tend to allow it, unless the material components
would be unmanagable.
>2. The same wizard is underwater near a ship and casts passwall on the hull of
>a ship(Below the waterline), does the ship sink?
If the spell affects wood, it should affect wooden hulls. The ship could well
sink. In AD&D, ships are about the most fragile thing you can imagine:
I've seen many, many magical ways to knock out a ship. Give your characters
a challange: put them on a ship and have them defend it against magical
attack.
>3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a table in
>a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
>the character become visible?
I think not. He does become evil. He has set a trap, and setting a trap does
not break invisibility. But this would be hard to do. Ingestive poisons,
in real life at least, are hard to manage correctly: the dosage is hard
to gague without training. And how did he get it into the glass without
someone bumping/hearing/smelling him? Your inn needs more patrons; it
doesn't sound overcrowded enough.
>4. PH2 Transmute rock to mud: this spells turns "any natural stone" into mud.
>Does this include worked stone, such as city walls, etc.? (yes IMHO)
AD&D2 says not, I think. This one got debated during the spell review; I voted
to discard the ability to "melt" explicitly worked stone in the review, to
be honest. I limit worked stone to a block of stone that has been separated from
the point it was dug and cut on all sides; you can sometimes melt dungeon
walls, but not city walls. But every DM has his own take on this. The
ability to melt the palace walls is great in slapstick campaigns.
>5. Does the Stoneskin spell pose problems for any other groups/DM's out there?
>Our group ended up limiting it to the caster only. (and his/her familiar, if
>applicable).
I've never seen it used in my game.
>6. Has anyone looked at the ramifications of the 1st level wizard spell
>metamorphose liquids in the Tome of Magic? This could ruin whole economies,
>since the material component is a DROP of whatever is to be made, and a lot of
>water(approx. 8 gallons per level of the caster). This could make a fine,
>expensive, wine cheaper than normal ale. Has anyone come up with a solution
>for this "problem"?
I don't have the book, but if the duration is permanemt, just make it
temporary. That solves many problems.
>7. Regarding a Mirror of Opposition: The DMG2 says that anyone who's image is
>reflected in the mirror gets an exact duplicate of him/her complete with all
>items. Does the victim have to acually see his/her reflection?
I think this is what they meant, yes.
>If the victim
>uses a Succor to leave, will the image use it's succor to follow? If the
>victim teleports out, does the image have a good chance of guessing the
>destination of the victim and also teleporting there to continue the battle?
I would say such cleverness breaks the effect -- the clone is in some sense
powered by the mirror.
>If the mirror is broken does the image disappear? How fast are the images
>formed? One per round or all at the same time?
All at once. Smash the mirror and the images should probably disappear.
The difficulty, of course, is that it is hard to smash when you are
defending your back from yourself, and magical mirrors always seem to
be quite hard to destroy.
>If the mirror is reduced in size, are the images also reduced?
No.
>Does the mirror create duplicates of
>invisible people, since invisibility is an illusion and the mirror is
>un-intelligent (According to most reasoning)? If duplicates are created are
>they invisible? Do they know where their opponent is by instinct?
It creates duplicates if the victims can see themselves.
If you have this much difficulty with the item, don't play it. I view the
mirror (so to speak) as a bit of mythologising on the idea that, if you
could *really* see yourself as others saw you, you would hate it. Hence,
if you see yourself in this mirror, something like that happens, and you
start to oppose yourself. Smash or escape the mirror (flee from the
self-revelation or overcome it) and the immediate problem goes away. If
a character managed to flee, via teleport, and I were feeling especially
mythological that day, I might give him bad dreams until he actually
confronted himself, either with the mirror, or some sort of trial against
himself.
>8. Elves get a +1 with bow or sword. Why can't Elvish single class mages use
>their racially preferred weapon? An elvish slinger is a little wierd IMHO.
Well, let him use it then, if it bothers you. That's why the game requires
a DM, after all.
--
"I forsee that you will meet a king, the father of the beautiful Princess
Plote DeVice; and he will insist that you rescue her from the keep of the
infamous Duke Carad Bored Vilan." "Can we kill the DM now?" "No."
sm...@wang.com
Russ Gilman
Nice sig, there, russ.
Re:Invisibility. There was a posting (who?) about 2 weeks ago, claiming
invisibility to be an illusion. Odd things would cause the illusee to
get a roll to disbelieve; attacks from thin air, rope tossing itself off
a ledge, you get the idea. A splashdown effect into a cup of coffee would
be a good candidate for that. . .
--
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in
higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently"
--Nietzsche
ru...@cie.uoregon.edu
Wade Guthrie
On the issue of spells and wizards, I think the GM needs to figure out what
(s)he thinks the mechanism for casting or the particular spell is. My
specific responses will be in reference to the mechanisms *I* think are
applicable. Your mileage may vary.
>1. A wizard of 10th level casts water breathing. Can he/she cast most spells
>underwater? (Subject to DMG Restrictions for underwater spell use) Or
>must he/she use airy water to cast any spells?
I say that the wizard must be able to concentrate and enunciate the verbal
components of the spell. He probably can't do this the first time he
does a water breathing (he's probably spending his time thinking: "I'M
GONNA DIE -- I'M GONNA DIE...I'M NOT DEAD...I'm not dead?...Hey, this
is a trip...HEY THIS IS A TRIP!!!". After some practice, however, he
should be able to do it. The amount of practice is up to the GM.
>2. The same wizard is underwater near a ship and casts passwall on the hull of
>a ship(Below the waterline), does the ship sink?
Well, does the passwall make a hole or a gate for the mage through the wall
when above the water line? If it makes a hole, then down she goes.
>3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a table in
>a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
>the character become visible?
Now, I've stolen my idea of what makes someone invisible from previous NET
discussions. I think that a spell of invisibility is a mental spell and
invokes the same thought process that causes one to look frantically for
his keys when he happens to be holding them. Even though the person is
looking right at the invisible person, his mind is causing him to ignore
the invisible person (under hypnosis later, the person could be made to
realize that the invisible person were really there). The reason that one
can't continue to be invisible after an attack is that one cannot ignore
a sword sticking out of his chest. He could, however, ignore someone
poisoning his drink. I think that the guy would stay invisible.
>4. PH2 Transmute rock to mud: this spells turns "any natural stone" into mud.
>Does this include worked stone, such as city walls, etc.? (yes IMHO)
Why not? AND DON'T GIVE ME THAT "GAME BALANCE" CRAP!!!! (=-> / 2)
>8. Elves get a +1 with bow or sword. Why can't Elvish single class mages use
>their racially preferred weapon? An elvish slinger is a little wierd IMHO.
The "+1 with bow or sword" rule is a bit steriotypical. I don't even require
clerics to use non-edged weapons (I just limit their proficiencies).
--
Wade Guthrie (guth...@arcturus.amasd.anatcp.rockwell.com)
Rockwell International; Anaheim, CA -> My opinions, not my employer's.
Robert Andrew Christian
>Here are some other rulings questions to think about/comment on:
>2. The same wizard is underwater near a ship and casts passwall on the hull of
>a ship(Below the waterline), does the ship sink?
I would say yes, though I have no books here to support my ruling.
>3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a table in
>a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
>the character become visible?
I like the response of bring attention to onself, whoever made that comment in
an earlier Invisibility discussion I thank him, as I will be adding this rule
to my game with the player's approval.
If the player brings notice to himself then the victim, may see the invisible
person. Example, victim hears the liquid lapping out of the bottle. See's
his wine has ripples in it or trys to pick up his glass and some invisible
force.
>4. PH2 Transmute rock to mud: this spells turns "any natural stone" into mud.
>Does this include worked stone, such as city walls, etc.? (yes IMHO)
Yes, See Catacomb Manual.
>8. Elves get a +1 with bow or sword. Why can't Elvish single class mages use
>their racially preferred weapon? An elvish slinger is a little wierd IMHO.
I don't think they should get the bonus unless they are using the non-weapon
penality also. Wizards who spend their studies in magic have to spend much
time and effort on the skill and can't learn other weapons (perhaps the Gods
don't allow them to use weapons) whatever the reason I don't think single
elf mages should get the bonus.
hu...@zodiac.rutgers.edu
> underwater? (Subject to DMG Restrictions for underwater spell use)Or
> must he/she use airy water to cast any spells?
I believe that water breathing only allows the caster to breath underwater
as he would normally would. For the caster to cast underwater, I would either
have him cast airy water (allows actions under water as normal) or give him a
percentage chance that each spell he throws would fumble.
>
> 2. The same wizard is underwater near a ship and casts passwall on the hull of
> a ship(Below the waterline), does the ship sink?
I would rule that the ship would sink.
> 3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a table in
> a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
> the character become visible?
No the act of pouring in the poison did not cause any damage, and the
caster did not take any damage to do this. While the end result of the act is
to cause damage, the act in its self is not enough to break the invisibility.
>
> 4. PH2 Transmute rock to mud: this spells turns "any natural stone" into mud.
> Does this include worked stone, such as city walls, etc.? (yes IMHO)
IMHO this is a emphatic YES, I feel that this is one of the main uses for
this particular spell.
mason hart
>Here are some other rulings questions to think about/comment on:
>
>1. A wizard of 10th level casts water breathing. Can he/she cast most spells
>underwater? (Subject to DMG Restrictions for underwater spell use)Or
>must he/she use airy water to cast any spells?
>
He can cast spells just fine.
>2. The same wizard is underwater near a ship and casts passwall on the hull of
>a ship(Below the waterline), does the ship sink?
>
Yes
>3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a table in
>a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
>the character become visible?
>
Ambiguous. Flip a coin.
>4. PH2 Transmute rock to mud: this spells turns "any natural stone" into mud.
>Does this include worked stone, such as city walls, etc.? (yes IMHO)
>
Yes.
>5. Does the Stoneskin spell pose problems for any other groups/DM's out there?
>Our group ended up limiting it to the caster only. (and his/her familiar, if
>applicable).
>
Good spell ... no it's never posed any real problems.
>6. Has anyone looked at the ramifications of the 1st level wizard spell
>metamorphose liquids in the Tome of Magic? This could ruin whole economies,
>since the material component is a DROP of whatever is to be made, and a lot of
>water(approx. 8 gallons per level of the caster). This could make a fine,
>expensive, wine cheaper than normal ale. Has anyone come up with a solution
>for this "problem"?
>
Haven't seen the spell, but I should HOPE it has a limited duration.
>7. Regarding a Mirror of Opposition: The DMG2 says that anyone who's image is
>reflected in the mirror gets an exact duplicate of him/her complete with all
>items. Does the victim have to acually see his/her reflection? If the victim
>uses a Succor to leave, will the image use it's succor to follow? If the
>victim teleports out, does the image have a good chance of guessing the
>destination of the victim and also teleporting there to continue the battle?
>If the mirror is broken does the image disappear? How fast are the images
>formed? One per round or all at the same time? If the mirror is reduced in
>size, are the images also reduced? Does the mirror create duplicates of
>invisible people, since invisibility is an illusion and the mirror is
>un-intelligent (According to most reasoning)? If duplicates are created are
>they invisible? Do they know where their opponent is by instinct?
>SITUATION: The mirror is covered after the duplicate is formed. The battle
>ends and the victim beats his duplicate. The mirror is the uncovered again.
>QUESTIONS: Can the mirror be covered during combat? Or does the duplicate
>derive "life" from the mirror? If the mirror is uncovered again does a new
>duplicate form?
>
One of my favorite magic items. Duplicates are formed the moment a person
sees his reflection. Only one duplicate of a given person can exist at any
given time. The duplicate has one purpose in life, to kill its parent, but
no actual link (telepathic, empathic, or otherwise) exists. Invisible
characters cannot see their reflections and thus do not create duplicates.
Nothing done to the mirror will have any effect on existing duplicates. A
Reduced mirror will not create Reduced duplicates (elementary optical
physics). If a person defeats his duplicate, he may create another by
looking in the mirror again.
>8. Elves get a +1 with bow or sword. Why can't Elvish single class mages use
>their racially preferred weapon? An elvish slinger is a little wierd IMHO.
>
They can, they just can't devote a PROFICIENCY to it.
Most of these are spot rules calls, exactly like I make every game.
"If you're not having fun, you're doing something wrong ...
.. likewise if you're not playing Second Edition."
-- mason
Gregory R Block
: In article <1992Mar23....@iscsvax.uni.edu>
: hunt...@iscsvax.uni.edu writes:
:
: >Here are some other rulings questions to think about/comment on:
: >
: >1. A wizard of 10th level casts water breathing. Can he/she cast most spells
: >underwater? (Subject to DMG Restrictions for underwater spell use)Or
: >must he/she use airy water to cast any spells?
: >
: He can cast spells just fine.
I would be inclined to say he couldn't without something like "free
action". Just breathing the water isn't enough--he has to be free and
unhindered in movements. So some sort of free action is necessary.
Which is why Airy Water is a perfect solution--it gives both.
So in my opinion, it's not enough.
: >3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a table in
: >a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
: >the character become visible?
: >
: Ambiguous. Flip a coin.
Too random, in my opinion. ;) First, decide whether or not anyone is
looking in that direction. Do they see the poison coming out of
nowhere into this glass? If so, that person would become visible for
THAT person. Unless something actually DISRUPTS the illusion, though,
I'd say no to that. I cancel the effects of invisibility on a
person-by-person basis. After all, it is an illusion.
PS: There's always another form of invisibility... A specialized
polymorph that makes the caster "invisible" by being completely
transparent... anyone ever use that?
Greg
--
__________________________________________________________________________
| The Chesterfield Electronic Towel (TM)|
|gbl...@csd4.csd.uwm.edu Don't leave Krikkit without it!|
|__________________________________________________________________________|
Mike Civita
>
>1. A wizard of 10th level casts water breathing. Can he/she cast most spells
>underwater? (Subject to DMG Restrictions for underwater spell use)Or
>must he/she use airy water to cast any spells?
Yes, airy water, or maybe vocalize, or a magic item (helm, necklace, ?).
>
>2. The same wizard is underwater near a ship and casts passwall on the hull of
>a ship(Below the waterline), does the ship sink?
Maybe not sink, but lists (leans) badly as it takes on water. Size of vessel,
duration of spell, size of hole will all factor in to the damage to the ship.
Great strategic spell vs. ships.
>
>3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a table in
>a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
>the character become visible?
No. No attack roll, no contact with NPC, why should he be visible? to reduce
the ease with which an assasination would occur is up to the DM, who should
make the thief run the gamut of his skills (move silent alot, etc) to get
to the victim, roll a dex check at minuses to dump an invisible vial of
invisible poison into a glass in a crowded barroom, with his invisible hand.
>
>4. PH2 Transmute rock to mud: this spells turns "any natural stone" into mud.
>Does this include worked stone, such as city walls, etc.? (yes IMHO)
Unless the stone walls were magically works, AND retain a dweomer.
>
>5. Does the Stoneskin spell pose problems for any other groups/DM's out there?
>Our group ended up limiting it to the caster only. (and his/her familiar, if
>applicable).
ATTACKS, not hits, is the key. Also, only ONE stoneskin in effect at a time,
it only prevents weapon damage, not poison damage, electrical damage, fire, etc.
>
>6. Has anyone looked at the ramifications of the 1st level wizard spell
>metamorphose liquids in the Tome of Magic? This could ruin whole economies,
>since the material component is a DROP of whatever is to be made, and a lot of
>water(approx. 8 gallons per level of the caster). This could make a fine,
>expensive, wine cheaper than normal ale. Has anyone come up with a solution
>for this "problem"?
one solution is the other wine growers. If you play the economic angles,
you must include transpo of the product, etc. Have the local vintiners guild
hire some BAD asses to reduce undercutting of prices. Ambushed caravans,
a fire in the factory, etc. Lots o' fun.
Mike
Ami A. Silberman
>Here are some other rulings questions to think about/comment on:
>1. A wizard of 10th level casts water breathing. Can he/she cast most spells
>underwater? (Subject to DMG Restrictions for underwater spell use)Or
>must he/she use airy water to cast any spells?
I should think that spells with no material components would be no problem.
Material components might be a problem if they are wet. (Ex. Fireball might
be difficult since the dungball is likely to disintegrate in water.)
>2. The same wizard is underwater near a ship and casts passwall on the hull of
>a ship(Below the waterline), does the ship sink?
Probably not, but it does have a hole. (A typical 600 ton ship won't sink
from a single 6'x6' hole assuming that the crew is at all competent.
>3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a table in
>a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
>the character become visible?
No, I don't think that this counts as an attack.
>4. PH2 Transmute rock to mud: this spells turns "any natural stone" into mud.
>Does this include worked stone, such as city walls, etc.? (yes IMHO)
No, I think that it explicitly states that worked stone doesn't count.
>5. Does the Stoneskin spell pose problems for any other groups/DM's out there?
>Our group ended up limiting it to the caster only. (and his/her familiar, if
>applicable).
I've seen it limited by giving it a one-day duration. I've also practiced
"roll-back" on it, by attacking the party with lots of small attacks earlier in
the day before the big monsters show up. In my current pary, no one has the
spell.
>6. Has anyone looked at the ramifications of the 1st level wizard spell
>metamorphose liquids in the Tome of Magic? This could ruin whole economies,
>since the material component is a DROP of whatever is to be made, and a lot of
>water(approx. 8 gallons per level of the caster). This could make a fine,
>expensive, wine cheaper than normal ale. Has anyone come up with a solution
>for this "problem"?
The winemakers guild hires someone to take the guy out. (Or at least warn
him seriously.)
>duplicate form?
>8. Elves get a +1 with bow or sword. Why can't Elvish single class mages use
>their racially preferred weapon? An elvish slinger is a little wierd IMHO.
Because. (Can't figure this one out.)
--
ami silberman - janitor of lunacy
sil...@cs.uiuc.edu
Paul D. Haggerty
>3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a table in
>a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
>the character become visible?
>
<Deleted other peoples explanations about illusions, and hearing liquid pour>
To paraphrase MST3K, It's just a game, and you really should relax.
In one of the latest Dragon magazines, the sage advice was asked
about invisibility. The answer was that it was one of the SPECIAL
illusion spells. It's classed as illusion because it make things
appear different from what they really are, but it cannot be
disbelieved. The only way for the spell to end is just what
is described in the spell discription. The spell does not end simply
because someone happen to have seen or heard evidence that an invisible
person is around.
Again, the spell is classified as illusion because it makes things look
different. There is no saving throw. There is no disbelief possible.
If you see something pour into your drink, you can swing your sword
through the air, throw your drink in a plausible direction, or use some
other form of detect invisibility.
I decide on invisibility with one question. Was the act ITSELF designed as
an attack to cause damage, delay, or chaos?
Pouring Poison: No
Throwing Contact Poison on someone: Yes
Shooting an arrow at a tree (not treant) for practice: No
Shooting an arrow at a treant: Yes
Crouching down to tie your shoes, and someone trips over you: No
Crouching down to trip someone: Yes
Basically, the spell is keyed to your emotional and intellectual state.
You know damn well if your trying to attack something.
Hyperion
Richard Griffith
In <1992Mar25.1...@m.cs.uiuc.edu> sil...@m.cs.uiuc.edu (Ami A. Silberman) writes:
>>4. PH2 Transmute rock to mud: this spells turns "any natural stone" into mud.
>>Does this include worked stone, such as city walls, etc.? (yes IMHO)
>No, I think that it explicitly states that worked stone doesn't count.
So the spell does not work on the wall. Target the spell on the ground under
the wall. The wall the collapses into the mudd. The result is much neater than
the result of targeting the wall, which results in a tidal wave of mudd.
Application #1: Mud Fall.
Ever considerd using Transmute rock to mud on the ceiling when facing opponents
in natural caverns, or carved tunnels? How much volume does it affect again?
What is the affect of that much mud moving down a standard corridor? And of
course the all important "how much damage do I do"?
Does your GM still like you after after having to rule on all this nonsense?
Application #2: Portable Pit Trap.
Golems are immune to most spells right. Don't target the golem. Target the
floor around the golem. Golems are big, heavy, and usual never learned to
swim. Does the golem have the intelligence to think quickly and avoid/escape the
area of affect or continue once sunk and deprived of all sensory input.
Most opponents without the ability to fly can be dealt with rather quickly.
Application #3: Foundation Destruction.
As described in the beginning don't go for the wall, take out the foundation.
A simple shift in a foundation can do more towards destroying a building
than bashing on a wall. Just look at the effects of earth quakes. If the ground
under the wall is mudd can the wall stand. Ha. The all important question is
"how much damage do I do" in structural points please?
--
"Personalize this message. Put your favorite quotation, quip or quibble here."
Tom Tignor
Interesting discussion here, though I haven't gotten access to
Trans Rock to Mud enough to exploit it. Still, isn't transmuting "the
rock behind the wall" the equivalent of telekinetically sliding
someone's jugular vein up through their tonsils? There does come a
point when the DM has to say "your control is not that fine" or watch
all the mages in his world become invincible.
Actually, the first spell I thought I'd IMMEDIATELY see when I
saw this subject was...*drum roll please*...
CHAIN LIGHTNING *cymbal crash*
I cool idea. I liked it...until I got hit by one in a
competitive convention game. Now let's
see...12+11+10+9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1 = 78 dice of damage with one spell?
So with two nice targets ahead of you that's 42 dice for one and 36
for the other. But wait! If they make their saves (and most spells
should offer a save, we want to be FAIR now, right?) they only take
about 24 dice and 18 dice. At 3 1/2 hit points as an average per die,
they could conceivably get off with 84 and 63 hit points damage,
respectively. This is enough to kill just about any and every
character outright. In fact, only the highest level fighters (and
perhaps clerics) are likely to have enough hit points to be standing
after such an attack. This is far more powerful than the Death Spell,
which I believe is of equivalent level. It is also twice as powerful
as the dreaded Power Word Kill, which can only slay one such target.
Of course, this is the TONED DOWN 2nd EDITION version of Chain
Lightning, where you have to be content with a maximum initial bolt
strength of 12d6. Not like the 1st edition spell where your bolt
started with 1d6 per caster level...
So since you've read this far, how do YOU play this spell? Any
nice game-balance preserving modifications? Let me know.
AH, nothing like a good bellyache... :-)
-Tom Tignor tp...@isi.edu
David Waterman Hyatt
> CHAIN LIGHTNING *cymbal crash*
>
Remember, no target may be hit more than once by a bolt from a
Chain Lightning spell! You can't do as much damage as you are
desribing just to two critters. So you're not going to do these
obscene amounts of damage to just one monster. It will be split
up among as many DIFFERENT creatures as the chain lightning can
strike until it runs out.
David Hyatt | "The Athasian Sloth is _fast_, cunning, and
<hy...@rice.owlnet.edu> | very bloodthirsty." - Dark Sun MC
Gregory R Block
: I cool idea. I liked it...until I got hit by one in a
: competitive convention game. Now let's
: see...12+11+10+9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1 = 78 dice of damage with one spell?
: So with two nice targets ahead of you that's 42 dice for one and 36
: for the other. But wait! If they make their saves (and most spells
: should offer a save, we want to be FAIR now, right?) they only take
: about 24 dice and 18 dice. At 3 1/2 hit points as an average per die,
: they could conceivably get off with 84 and 63 hit points damage,
: respectively. This is enough to kill just about any and every
: character outright. In fact, only the highest level fighters (and
: perhaps clerics) are likely to have enough hit points to be standing
: after such an attack. This is far more powerful than the Death Spell,
: which I believe is of equivalent level. It is also twice as powerful
: as the dreaded Power Word Kill, which can only slay one such target.
: Of course, this is the TONED DOWN 2nd EDITION version of Chain
: Lightning, where you have to be content with a maximum initial bolt
: strength of 12d6. Not like the 1st edition spell where your bolt
: started with 1d6 per caster level...
:
: So since you've read this far, how do YOU play this spell? Any
: nice game-balance preserving modifications? Let me know.
:
: AH, nothing like a good bellyache... :-)
You're right, it would be BUTT nasty. Except for one thing: Each
target can only be hit once. So it hits everyone once within the
entire area of effect, if it can. Say it's down to three people.
You, and two people about 30 yards away. Chain lightning. Hits the
one on the left for 12d6, the one on the right for 11d6, and then you
for 10d6, after which time (there's no-one within 120 feet around you
that hasn't been hit) the spell digs itself in some random direction
into the ground. And that's it for all of the above. ;)
George Heintzelman
>saw this subject was...*drum roll please*...
>
> CHAIN LIGHTNING *cymbal crash*
moving between two targets deleted.
> Of course, this is the TONED DOWN 2nd EDITION version of Chain
>Lightning, where you have to be content with a maximum initial bolt
>strength of 12d6. Not like the 1st edition spell where your bolt
>started with 1d6 per caster level...
>
> So since you've read this far, how do YOU play this spell? Any
>nice game-balance preserving modifications? Let me know.
The only modification that need be made is the one that's
already in there, 2nd ed..."The chain can strike as many times...as
the spell caster has levels, _although each creature or object can be
struck only once._" (Emphasis mine). So noone takes more than 12
dice, and your wizard does that with a lightning bolt anyhow.
Also, don't forget that being near to a large grounding source
(apparently, in the fantasy world good 'ol terra firma doesn't
count...) like a pool of water will cause the bolt to strike that
object, damage it (if appropriate) but fail to chain it anymore.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-George Heintzelman -=+OOOOO+=-
-xhei...@minerva.cis.yale.edu
-PO Box 2372 Yale Station, New Haven Ct 06520 -
Thomas Reid Scudder
I thought it was an excessively powerful spell, too, until I took
one more look at the book, and it turns out that, if my memory
isn't failing me again, that, for every target but the first,
a successful saving throw results in the bolt arcing over to the
NEXT NEAREST TARGET. This target then gets a saving throw and
so on until either someone gets hit, or no further targets are in
spell range. What happens then is up to the DM, the two choices
I can see are:
1) The spell goes pfft. and expires.
2) The lightning bolt loses one dice of damage and goes back around
the cycle again.
I would tend to choose number 1, myself.
Despite all this, chain lightning is still a very nice spell, but not
horribly so, considering that it is 7th level.
Brian Brunner
yanks this one out of his hat it is 26 dice at start...
The first target gets a save for half damage (26 * 1.75 average
or 26 * 3.5 average).
The second target gets a save and if he makes it he is IGNORED,
the bolt will go to the next nearest target, who gets the same save.
If everybody closer than the casting mage makes their save, the caster
is the next target. If he makes it, others within range are the targets.
If EVERYBODY in range makes the save, the spell fizzles.
Each person hit (failed the first save) gets to save for full or half
damage. Thus, Chain Lightning is not as powerful as you describe...
but it is no slouch, either.
Then there was Sarlu Allfriend... D23M100... a bit munchkinish.
Some Demigod Deathknight and his 30 Demons arose from the
abyss... so I sent them a written challenge to combat I kept
in my back pocket just to discourage thieves... it was a cursed
scroll I wrote myself, chain lightning, 100 dice.
The DM failed to use the Deathknight Detect Magic. Not my prob.
He opened the scroll and really quickly I had 1 Demigod Deathknight
and 3 crippled Demons for opponents. Their morale broke, and it
was just frosty the canman and me. I rolled up my sleaves. He left.
It was a fun day. Have one for yourself.
Brian Brunner
(David Waterman Hyatt) writes:
|> In article <21...@venera.isi.edu> tp...@che.isi.edu (Tom Tignor)
writes:
|> > CHAIN LIGHTNING *cymbal crash*
|>
|> Remember, no target may be hit more than once by a bolt from a
|> Chain Lightning spell! You can't do as much damage as you are
|> desribing just to two critters. So you're not going to do these
|> obscene amounts of damage to just one monster. It will be split
|> up among as many DIFFERENT creatures as the chain lightning can
|> strike until it runs out.
This is true only in the presence of a house rule declaring such to be
true.
Otherwise the spell description states it may hit the same target over
and over, the only proviso being that it must hit some OTHER target
(which must fail its' save to be hit) between hits. Thus two targets
hits by the spell could take N, N-2, N-4,... to one target while the
other takes N-1, N-3, N-5,... But this requires Both of them always
failing their initial saves (except the very first target, which does
not get
a 'You missed me' save, just the full/half damage save).
Also note that this spell gets crazy if (say) two of the 10 targets
wear rings of spell turning, as a partial turning creates TWO
bouncing bolts of shocking jollies, each at reduced strength.
So... Howcum dextrity helps your save vs Lightning... the book
says so, but the wires in MY house never listened! My
Interpretation Is that the spell creates a rift between the target
area and the demi-plane of lightning inside of which lightning is
manifest, and that the rift is created at low enough speed to dodge.
This also explains why the bolt is not totally grounded by the first
canman in the line standing in water... he gets no save, or a severe
penalty, but everybody behind him still gets hit by the bolt.
And if a pregnant person gets hasted... does this affect the
development of the hasted unborn child? Is it born at age 3 months
just as the spell ends and the aging effect asserts itself?
And how many DMs out there allow a character under the influence
of Polymorph Self and (say) a ring of shocking grasp to discharge the
ring against a target while in not-normal shape? What other items
can be used? Has T$R ever put out a clear description of what THEY
intended to be possible while this spell/potion is in operation?
Scott Mayo
> CHAIN LIGHTNING *cymbal crash*
> I cool idea. I liked it...until I got hit by one in a
>competitive convention game. Now let's
>see...12+11+10+9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1 = 78 dice of damage with one spell?
>So with two nice targets ahead of you that's 42 dice for one and 36
>for the other. But wait! If they make their saves (and most spells
>should offer a save, we want to be FAIR now, right?) they only take
>about 24 dice and 18 dice. At 3 1/2 hit points as an average per die,
>they could conceivably get off with 84 and 63 hit points damage,
>respectively. This is enough to kill just about any and every
>character outright. In fact, only the highest level fighters (and
>perhaps clerics) are likely to have enough hit points to be standing
>after such an attack. This is far more powerful than the Death Spell,
>which I believe is of equivalent level. It is also twice as powerful
>as the dreaded Power Word Kill, which can only slay one such target.
> So since you've read this far, how do YOU play this spell? Any
>nice game-balance preserving modifications? Let me know.
I play it by disallowing it. During the second edition spell review I
asked TSR to kill this spell, and I thought they'd agreed to remove
it. My objections were: 1) too much damage and 2) too much computation
for fast moving games.
--
I slew Orcus on his own plane, and all I got was this lousy wand.
sm...@wang.com
John Francis
>saw this subject was...*drum roll please*...
>
> CHAIN LIGHTNING *cymbal crash*
>
> I cool idea. I liked it...until I got hit by one in a
>competitive convention game. Now let's
>see...12+11+10+9+8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1 = 78 dice of damage with one spell?
>So with two nice targets ahead of you that's 42 dice for one and 36
>for the other. But wait! If they make their saves (and most spells
>should offer a save, we want to be FAIR now, right?) they only take
>about 24 dice and 18 dice. At 3 1/2 hit points as an average per die,
>they could conceivably get off with 84 and 63 hit points damage,
>respectively. This is enough to kill just about any and every
>character outright. In fact, only the highest level fighters (and
>perhaps clerics) are likely to have enough hit points to be standing
>after such an attack. This is far more powerful than the Death Spell,
>which I believe is of equivalent level. It is also twice as powerful
>as the dreaded Power Word Kill, which can only slay one such target.
What makes you think Chain Lightning was not meant to be an attack spell?
My half- (it's a long story; he started out as a half-elf :-) fighter-mage
had a change of attitude when he learned about this spell. Up until then
he claimed that combat magic was for wimps - he could do better wading in
and swinging his sword. (Of course the sword might have had something to do
with this decision, but it wasn't saying). Chain lightning, however, made
even our paladin (2 attacks per round; 18/ninety-something strength, sword
not far short of a holy avenger) sit up and take notice - I was doing more
damage in a round than he was! And it was a distance weapon. Scenario:
We ride up to a castle (picture the one in Monty Python and the holy grail)
and demand admittance. The rowdies on the parapet mock us, throw noisome
objects at us, and generally attempt to make our life unpleasant. We warn
them that if they do not open the gates immediately they will not live to
regret it, but they take no notice (they've met paladins before; they are
used to outrageous claims of vengeance). They still refuse to open the
gate, telling us to come back in the morning. We are, by the way, in a
realm of perpetual darkness, so this is a pretty good brush-off line!
We do have what we think is a valid reason to visit the castle, so I toast
the tower with chain lightning. This kills most of the guard detail outright,
but I never said I was lawful good ... the survivors hastily open the gate
and crawl off to lick their wounds and plot a spectacular revenge, while we
ride in to conduct our business with the lord of the castle . . .
[Yes, it's a high-power dungeon. I was 12th level, the paladin was 13th.
We had been playing these characters for 5 years, so I don't think it was
too outrageous. We've since changed DMs, and are now playing lower level
characters. Well, I'm not - I'm running the dungeon for my pains.]
Lisamarie 'Rifa the Insane' Babik
was to hold "DM I." We set up a session that was going to be devoted
specifically to the resolution of problems and the presentation of new
ideas. It took us about 4 hours, but I believe it was the most productive
4 hours we've ever spent. We came up with a list of resolutions that we
are all going to abide by concerning things such as spell memorization,
psionics, weapon speeds, etc.
I would recommend it to anyone who finds theirself faced with a lot of
seeming unanswerable questions...
_______________________________________________________________________________
If you get the impression I'm not qualified to speak for this University, it's
because I ain't, I can't, I don't, I won't, and I don'wanna.
________Lisamarie "Rifa the Insane" Babik_____...@gw.wmich.edu_________
Robert Osborne
>3. An invisible character (2nd level wizard spell) walks up to a table in
>a tavern and pours ingestive poison into a victim's glass(intentionally). Does
>the character become visible?
Yes.
The way I handle invisibility (the only way I could make sense of the
fact that you become visible upon attacking :-) is that it isn't really
invisibility but the character becomes unnoteworthy. The
monster/person still sees the 'invisible' character they just *can't*
take notice of or pay attention to the character. The 'invisible'
person ceases to be invisible as soon as they do something noteworthy;
such as attack somebody with a sword.
I would class pouring something liquid smelling faintly of almonds
into my glass as a noteworthy event :-).
This allows a true invisibility (cf. Invisible Stalker) that is
completly different (and far more powerful). Thus I have two types
of rings of invisiblilty: the unnoticed flavour and the full blown
HG Wells special.
The great thing about handling invisibility this way is that the DM
can define noteworthy fuzzily and individually. My invisible players
once attempted to rob a dragon of some of his treasure by only stealing
unimportant items. They almost got away with it until the thief
decided that since the dragon wasn't missing his silver he probably
wouldn't care about his gold ... :-)
Rob.
--
Robert A. Osborne ...!uunet.ca!isgtec!robert or rob...@isgtec.com
Laura L Perkinson
utterly and totally WRONG. It has a LOT of limitations.
It gives out a maximum of as many lightning strokes as the caster's
level, provided their are at least that many potential targets. EACH TARGET
CAN BE HIT ONLY ONCE. It won't bounce back and forth between two targets; it
will then arc back to the next closest being, who could well be the caster
or someone in his party. So casting it, as you claimed in your example,
against 2 oponents, is really dumb. CL can't be used unless there's a
lot of enemies, and it's bad tactics to do if combat has been closed (ie
the friendly fighters + thieves are engaged in melee with the baddies.)
Game balance is safe.
BTW, one confusing thing in the PH: the potential # of targets is
the caster's level, but the first stroke can only be 12d6. So, if a 13th
level mage casts it, the last 2 strokes will each be 1d6. Capiche?
Praxis
Morpheus Nosferatu
I missed the first part of this little argument, but it sounds like you're
describing the second edition's version of the spell (I wouldn't known
for certain, since I have nothing to do with the 2nd ed.).
From your comments, I would assume that Tignor was describing the way
the spell works in the first edition, as listed in the Unearthed
Arcana. In the first edition, Chain Lightning _can_ bounce back and
forth between two targets, and there is no level limit on the max number
of d6 worth of damage it can do.
So unless Tignor was describing the second edition, your flame is
out of place. But then, some people swear by 2nd ed (I have no idea
why, I've only heard negative things about it) and others swear by
1st ed AD&D (nice game, admitedly, but it has its own flaws as well).
Personally, I prefer my own rpg. At least it fits what I expect from
a role-playing game.
/----------------------------------------+--------------------------------\
| Jeff Standish, Dreamwalker, and | morp...@sage.cc.purdue.edu |
| Morpheus Nosaferatu, The Dream Vampyre | stan...@mentor.cc.purdue.edu |
| Too many minds trapped in one body. | Reality is for those |
| And it would be a human one, at that. | who can't handle fantasy. |
\----------------------------------------+--------------------------------/
sjda...@amherst.edu
>
> PS: There's always another form of invisibility... A specialized
> polymorph that makes the caster "invisible" by being completely
> transparent... anyone ever use that?
>
>
> Greg
>
bodies to polymorph into must be things experienced or witnessed by the caster,
or be based upon things experienced/witnessed by the caster. (Thus, any mage
who had seen a rock could create an illusion of a rock slide, but only
mages who have sen a dragon could create an illusion of a dragon, etc.)
This rule could perhaps cause some difficulty to such a polymorph, as it is
rather difficult to have witnessed a transparent being that is capable of
motion and performing acts normally performed by PCs. (although perhaps in this
case the rule should be removed, since the spell caster is not trying to
create a believable semblance of another entity, but simply to hide from all
others?)
Hmmmmm.....I suppose the thought has some possibilities, although as DM I would
probably not allow it (if one of the players even thought of it) as being
highly abusive: a 4th level spell is being used to achieve the effects of a
spell that should be at least 6th level IMHO: invisibility not broken by any
attack....
*shrug*
Do as you will.....just make sure that whatever you do is what makes
the game FUN for you.....
*grin*
--Stever
forms to polymorph self or others into must be things actually experience
Ronald Kunenborg
>In article <1992Mar29.0...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu> pra...@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu (Laura L Perkinson) writes:
>>
[ large flame deleted ]
>
>I missed the first part of this little argument, but it sounds like you're
>describing the second edition's version of the spell (I wouldn't known
>for certain, since I have nothing to do with the 2nd ed.).
>
[ sensible reply deleted ]
No, even 2nd ed. Chain Lightnings bounce back and forth. Read the spell
before you flame, Praxis (check out your Theory).
regards,
--
Ronald Kunenborg, Ina Boudier-Bakkerlaan 89-3, 3582 XD Utrecht, The Netherlands
"If we must die, let it not be like hogs...
Like men we'll face the murderous, cowardly pack,
Sverker Wiberg
spell point, convenient instead of powerful). One of these is names Heat Food.
It has range 5 meters, and can up to 10 litres of stuff in a container to max
99 degrees Celsius.
As you see, it isn't that powerful.
Then someone realised that an average human brain has a volume conciderably
below 10 litres, and that Heat Food thus was the strongest and cheapest
attck spell in the lists!
In the next edition Heat Food was hobbled so it only worked on non-living
things.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#include<stddisclaim.h> Every interesting data structure is recursive.
sver...@mizar.docs.uu.se (Sverker Wiberg) /Cons
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Civita
>In article <1992Mar25.0...@uwm.edu>, gbl...@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Gregory R Block) writes:
>>
>> PS: There's always another form of invisibility... A specialized
>> polymorph that makes the caster "invisible" by being completely
>> transparent... anyone ever use that?
>>
>> Greg
>>
>In my gaming group, we have always played that such things as illusions and
>bodies to polymorph into must be things experienced or witnessed by the caster,
Us too.
>
>This rule could perhaps cause some difficulty to such a polymorph, as it is
>rather difficult to have witnessed a transparent being that is capable of
>motion and performing acts normally performed by PCs. (although perhaps in this
>case the rule should be removed, since the spell caster is not trying to
>create a believable semblance of another entity, but simply to hide from all
>others?)
Isn't stipulated in the spell description that the spell with change
the caster into any CREATURE? (I could be wrong, I don't have the book).
>
>Hmmmmm.....I suppose the thought has some possibilities, although as DM I would
>probably not allow it (if one of the players even thought of it) as being
>highly abusive: a 4th level spell is being used to achieve the effects of a
>spell that should be at least 6th level IMHO: invisibility not broken by any
>attack....
>*shrug*
If a PC wants to remain invisible, there is a 3rd (4th?) level spell
called Improved Invisibility which allows the caster to remain
invis for a rds/level duration. It allows anyone attacked by such
an invisible PC a saving throw vs. the invisibility (at -4, i think)
if failed, the PC stays invisible to that character for the duration
of the spell.
>
Mike