AD&D: Polymorph Self spell - how does it work?
Kenneth C Dwyer
Has anyone had much experience with the Polymorph Self spell?
I don't normally read this group so please accept my apologies if there
has been a recent discussion on it.
I have a 7th level Militant Wizard (2nd Edition AD&D) who has recently
obtained the polymorph Self spell, and my DM and I are having a few
problems coming to an agreement over what *exactly* happens, especially
regarding combat that takes place while my character is using the spell.
As per the Players Handbook, the spell description says "The spell does
not give the new form's other abilities (attack, magic, special
movement, etc.)" - So my Mage doesn't get the THAC0 or damage rolls of
(for example) a wolf. How then does my character attack while under the
spell? I have played AD&D for ages and sometimes I remember actual
rules and other times I remember things that other DM's and I talked
about, but I had the impression that since the spell is verbal only, the
wizards attacks would be exactly as they were when the spell was cast
(whatever s/he was holding at the time of casting).
The spell description says "The wizard retains his own hit points,
attack rolls, and saving throws."
^^^^^^^^^^^^
i.e. If the wizard was holding a dagger when the spell was cast, then
the dagger would "meld" into the natural weapons of the new form and the
wizard would keep his THAC0 and damage roll of the dagger.
Being a Militant Wizard means that I get to trundle round a slightly
larger "dagger" in fact a Bastard sword - which can do considerably more
damage. I don't think my DM likes the idea of my character appearing as
a "poor little defenseless and harmless critter" and then ripping people
to shreds with the damage roll of a bastard sword.
My DM points to the sentence in the spell description which says "in
particularly challenging campaigns, the DM may allow protective devices,
such a a ring of protection, to continue operating effectively" -
presumably because such a ring is no longer actually on the finger of
the new form. The words "defensive" and "may allow" are the key things
according to him. A sword is not "defensive" and if ring can't be on
your finger then a sword can't be in your hand.
As of my last discussion with my DM, my Mage will do damage as if he
didn't hold the sword - i.e. as if he were punching, including *all*
the penalties - i.e. 1 point damage no matter what the form taken, any
defender with a weapon will get initiative over my character
automatically and also get the +4 to hit and damage as if striking and
unarmed aggressor.
As this stands the spell still grants flight and water breathing, but
that is about all it is good for. I can accept that. If my DM wants to
play it that way, well I'll just have to accept it, but I would like to
see how other people played the spell - maybe either my DM or myself
would be convinced if enough people agreed on one interpretation of the
spell.
Other things that have cropped up - does the new form retain the
capability to discharge shocking grasp or vampiric touch spells?
How fast does my mage fly when polymorphed into an eagle? My DM says
same rate as he had before the spell because it only grants "mode of
locomotion" not the special movement rate - which is fair enough, but it
means you can become a *very* fast moving black pudding or grey ooze.
Also when my mage is polymorphed as a hippopotamus, do weapons do damage
as if to a size L creature? Is initiative that of the new form?
It's a real disappointment to find out that your only 4th level spell is
little more that an illusion, when your a militant wizard who was looking
for the capability to 'make lightning fast surprise attacks on the enemy
and catch them unprepared'.
Hope someone can shed some new light on this topic, my DM and I have talked
about it quite a lot and now we're just re-hashing the same old arguments
and getting nowhere.
Should I check to see if my DM is wearing a ring of contrariness, or
should I just accept that I got a dud spell?
Thanks in advance,
Ken Dwyer.
mil...@wharton.upenn.edu
> As per the Players Handbook, the spell description says "The spell does
> not give the new form's other abilities (attack, magic, special
> movement, etc.)" - So my Mage doesn't get the THAC0 or damage rolls of
> (for example) a wolf.
I would interpret this less strictly than you or your DM is doing. The
polymorphed character should be exactly as strong, with claws exactly as
sharp, as a normal, mundane wolf. Otherwise, the character would not be
strong enough to run as fast as a wolf. Thus, your character would do
the same damage as a wolf, since you are attacking with wolf-sized teeth
and wolf-sized claws. However, you would not get magical bonuses, for
instance if you polymorphed into a werewolf you would not be
invulnerable to normal weapons and would do no more damage than a normal
wolf, and if you aped a dragon you would not get draconic breath weapons
or spells.
> The spell description says "The wizard retains his own hit points,
> attack rolls, and saving throws."
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> i.e. If the wizard was holding a dagger when the spell was cast, then
> the dagger would "meld" into the natural weapons of the new form and the
> wizard would keep his THAC0 and damage roll of the dagger.
No way. When you polymorph you either drop everything you're carrying or
it disappears into an otherdimensional holding space, choice dependent
on DM whim. You shouldn't suddenly have a mouse with bastard sword
hands. Similarly, if you became an elephant you shouldn't be limited to
punching damage when you stood on someone.
The way I read the quoted section is you use your original HP, THAC0,
and saving throws, but get movement modes and speeds, AC, and damage
rolls of the form you assume.
Given the tactics you expected to use with this spell, I do not think it
is what you wanted, but I also think that both you and your DM are
forgetting to use common sense when interpreting the rules.
--
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller internet: MIL...@wharton.upenn.edu
When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean--neither
more nor less. -- Humpty Dumpty
Doug Easterly
In article 38080 Kenneth Dwyer asks about Polymorph Self....
Now, as I remember it (it's been a while since I played AD&D)
when I ran AD&D 1st Ed., Polymorph Self was basically a
defensive spell. Great for disguise, spying, etc. It was NOT
usable for offense at all-- i.e. taking the form of a wolf
and biting your foes. It was only a -really good- disguise.
If you want to become a wolf, well that's another thing altogether.
In AD&D 1st ed, you had to use the 9th level spell shapechange.
Of course, this is all from my memory of arguments a few years
ago, and of an older version of the game. If I'm wrong, feel free
to flame away.
91F9774
>
>
>Has anyone had much experience with the Polymorph Self spell?
>I don't normally read this group so please accept my apologies if there
>has been a recent discussion on it.
>
>about it quite a lot and now we're just re-hashing the same old arguments
>and getting nowhere.
>
>Should I check to see if my DM is wearing a ring of contrariness, or
>should I just accept that I got a dud spell?
>
on us (laughing as I remember it) because of a gentle "discussion" we were
having over the spell. But, you're asking about poly self.
It sounds like in an effort to maintain play balance that your referee has
gone overboard. I have done this 3 times in 15 years and I bitterly regret
each of those occasions. My feelings on the Poly Self spell are that it
should be consistent. I think the question here is, "What definitions of
this spell will wreck the game?" Obviously your DM got touchy because of
the wimpy creature from hell problem. I have refereed for about 15 years
(sigh... I'm still not out of college yet) and I run it as follows...
Poly Self: The mage becomes physically the creature. They can fly as fast,
are truly as small, can breath water, etc. However, there is a large
element of illusion to the spell as well. Those scales that look hard as
iron are really just skin and the massive muscles are only strong enough
to carry the new body.
IMHO your DM has over-reacted . Perhaps you could give yon a chance to cool
down. Perhaps you could get the following...
If you have your sword readied when you poly, then the new form cannot
disquise the fact that it is capable of doing massive damage. I.e. the
hamster has massive, glittery, steel teeth or the Chicken has a wicked
looking steal claws with massive spurs.
If you do not have your sword readied when you do the poly, then you only
have the ability to do 1hp.
If some other weapon is readied then adjust between the above.
I think this would come up even in "normal" campaigns where, for example,
a mage could have a "Staff of Striking."
---
Stephen McLeod So our ref said, "You're on drugs... the poly other spell
The Eternal Student says the creature is as *tough* as it normally is. If you
guys poly other the giant into a clam then it can mussel
itself up on its shell edges and throw itself thru the air
for 6-36 points of damage. Hours later... the police broke
things up."
Scott Mayo
>Has anyone had much experience with the Polymorph Self spell?
>I don't normally read this group so please accept my apologies if there
>has been a recent discussion on it.
[long description of spells possible interpretations given]
>It's a real disappointment to find out that your only 4th level spell is
>little more that an illusion, when your a militant wizard who was looking
>for the capability to 'make lightning fast surprise attacks on the enemy
>and catch them unprepared'.
PolySelf is a wonderful spell, but don't use it to increase your
ability to do combat. From your description, it sounds as if you
want to combine the damage potential of your weapons with the many
nify abilities of your spell. I can see a DM holding objections to that.
A 7th level mage can do enough damage, especially one that the DM allows
to wield a Bastard sword, doing bastard sword damage, after he runs out of
spells.
PolySelf is a heck of a lot more than an illusion. It is the spell of
choice among the PC mages in my game, and I restrict it more than your
DM wants to. And yet it is still the spell of choice, because it gives
unequalled ability to do movement, spying, and round-by-round flexability.
And it throws in a d12 of curing at the end in most cases. Spells don't GET
much better than this at this level.
Here is how I play it: you don't get access to any item you are carrying
if you carried it when you changed shape: daggers on belts or in hands
"melt-in" to the new form and more or less cease to exist until you
depoly. A +3 dagger doesn't even give you a +3 claw. Rings don't work, not
even Rings of Regeneration. You can't cast spells, unless the form you
choose has your sort of mouth (and hands, for somatic spells). Your AC,
attack damage, and locomotion are those of your new form, discounting
innate abilities of the new form (poly into a bluejay and you can fly;
poly into a wingless dragon and you can't). Your number of attacks,
to-hit, hit points, and mind are those of your normal form. With careful
choosing, you *can* get forms that make you fight better; but most monsters
that do great damage with their hands don't have human-enough mouths to
allow spell casting, so you are making a trade-off. Spells you have
already cast (Shocking Grasp, etc.), do continue to work. All of this is
more or less by-the-book.
Then why is the spell so popular?
1) The party reaches a chasm, with no bridge across. Only a few party
members can fly. For various embarassing reasons, getting across this
chasm quickly is a real good idea. The Mage polyself's to a Pegasus,
and ferries everyone across the chasm quickly: total time, three rounds.
2) You find the Horrid Valley that the Prince commanded you to find
and explore. As you feared, the place is wall-to-wall Ogres and Orge Mages.
No way are you going to walk in there, explore, and get out alive. So you
poly into a bat and explore the valley at dusk. You hear the conversations of
the Ogre Mages, learn where the denizens sleep, what their supply situation
is like, and a lot of other things. Things you couldn't have done any other
way. (I could tell some funny stories of ESCAPES from situations more
harrowing than this, escapes that involved PS, but they take up too much room.)
3) Your party is split up, and one group (yours) gets attacked by suprise.
You expected trouble, so you cast a Poly Self recently, and have been a
bird on your cleric's shoulder. You immediately fly up into a tree
and poly to elf. From that safe perch, you blast a spell or two at your
opponents; but this fight isn't going well and you need the other half of
your party in a hurry. You poly to falcon, gain some elevation, find the
rest of your party, fly down, change to pegasus, and indicate in no
uncertain terms that they are to climb on. You ferry them back to the
fight. Your DM rules that you arrive exhausted and practically crash
land, from carrying the other 3 party members that distance; and of course
your opponents fill you with arrows as you land, because your AC isn't
much in this form. Doesn't matter. The d12 of curing you get as you
rise, human again, from the impressive landing takes care of some of the
damage; and your opponents get an immediate morale check, from seeing
a pegasus ferry in reinforcements and then become human before their
eyes. Your side goes on to win the battle. You get all the praise.
Polymorph Self: don't leave home without it.
--
"You can't do that! The universe will go down in flames!!"
"Is that *my* problem?"
sm...@wang.com
dr williams
>
>
>Has anyone had much experience with the Polymorph Self spell?
>I don't normally read this group so please accept my apologies if there
>has been a recent discussion on it.
>
>I have a 7th level Militant Wizard (2nd Edition AD&D) who has recently
>obtained the polymorph Self spell, and my DM and I are having a few
>problems coming to an agreement over what *exactly* happens, especially
>regarding combat that takes place while my character is using the spell.
>
>the dagger would "meld" into the natural weapons of the new form and the
>wizard would keep his THAC0 and damage roll of the dagger.
>
>particularly challenging campaigns, the DM may allow protective devices,
>such a a ring of protection, to continue operating effectively" -
>capability to discharge shocking grasp or vampiric touch spells?
>How fast does my mage fly when polymorphed into an eagle? My DM says
>same rate as he had before the spell because it only grants "mode of
>locomotion" not the special movement rate - which is fair enough, but it
>means you can become a *very* fast moving black pudding or grey ooze.
>Also when my mage is polymorphed as a hippopotamus, do weapons do damage
>as if to a size L creature? Is initiative that of the new form?
Just some thoughts you might want to take into consideration.
When the AD&D game first came out, mages were not SUPPOSED to get into melee.
They had range spells, no armor, lousy weapons all which meant DON'T GET INTO
a hand to hand fight.
The polymorph self spell is NOT an attack or offensive spell. It
is meant for concealment, gathering info and escaping, if necessary. It is
not designed to do what you want. There are a few things about the
discussion between you and the DM that I wanted to cover also.
First of all, when the spell takes effect, all items are melded into
the form you take. I would say any rings, etc would still work, especially
defensive items. Any item that requires a command word to activate would
not work, since the form you take is probably not going to be able to speak
with a "human" voice.
This means that your weapons probably don't work although you can
attack with the same THAC0 as you have normally.
The spell gives only the normal movement of the creature that you
change into. There is nothing "magical" about the speed an eagle flies or
the movement rate of a cheetah. I would say that the creatures normal move
is what you get. Note that you CANNOT change into any magical creature, so
a black pudding, etc is out.
If you wanted a combat type spell, your out of luck. But note that
this is the ONLY spell in the mages entourage that HEALS DAMAGE. 1d12 of
damage once you change back to your original form.
Some good ideas in using this spell are: scouting enemy positions
from the air, changing into a particular animal form and scouting an enemy
lair (rat, snake, etc), changing to something innocuos in order to get in
a better attack position (such as behind a group of creatures).
One other thing, I would say that any spells cast on the mage before
the polymorph would still be in effect. That would include, invisibilty,
shield, stoneskin, comp. lang., shocking grasp, ect.
Just one humble DM's opinion. Please be aware that I am a great
the following:
A DM has final word over his game.
Not everything is in the rules.
Anything in the rules is subject to the first statement.
Anything not in the rules is subject to the first statement.
---------------------
will...@unccvax.uncc.edu
---------------------
73504000
> [stuff deleted]
> If you wanted a combat type spell, your out of luck. But note that
> this is the ONLY spell in the mages entourage that HEALS DAMAGE. 1d12 of
> damage once you change back to your original form.
this is not entirely correct. vampiric touch has healing effects as does
The Simbul's Synostodweomer (from Forgotten Realms Adventures 2nd Ed.) which
allows the mage to transform the magical energy of any other spell into
healing energy (2hp/level of spell).
>---------------------
>will...@unccvax.uncc.edu
>---------------------
======================
dar...@ucscb.ucsc.edu
======================
DONALD KANE
> The polymorph self spell is NOT an attack or offensive spell. It
> is meant for concealment, gathering info and escaping, if necessary. It is
> not designed to do what you want. There are a few things about the
> discussion between you and the DM that I wanted to cover also.
>
> First of all, when the spell takes effect, all items are melded into
> the form you take. I would say any rings, etc would still work, especially
> defensive items. Any item that requires a command word to activate would
> not work, since the form you take is probably not going to be able to speak
> with a "human" voice.
This is the same way I play it. However, if you do change into something
that allows speech, magical items which require a command word are still
unusable since they have 'melded' into the form you have taken. Also, if
you turn into a humanoid or demi-human, you will have a set of clothes
appropriate to the race you turned into -- no weapons, no armor, just
clothes.
> This means that your weapons probably don't work although you can
> attack with the same THAC0 as you have normally.
Right again, but the damage you do is equal to that of the non-magical
attack form of the creature turned into. i.e. You could look like a
vampire, but you would have your own strength and not drain levels with a
successful hit. Also, you could not be turned. We play you do not get any
special abilities or special weaknesses.
> The spell gives only the normal movement of the creature that you
> change into. There is nothing "magical" about the speed an eagle flies or
> the movement rate of a cheetah. I would say that the creatures normal move
> is what you get. Note that you CANNOT change into any magical creature, so
> a black pudding, etc is out.
I thought that in the spell description that changing into a black pudding
was an example of something you could change into to move under a door. We
ususally allow the mage to change into any monster that he has seen. As a
limiting factor to this, the mage acquires only the physical appearance.
This means if the mage turned into a troll, he would look like a troll, but
he would not regenerate and also not smell bad. This second "penalty" has
gotten a few mages into awkward (to say the least) situations.
> If you wanted a combat type spell, your out of luck. But note that
> this is the ONLY spell in the mages entourage that HEALS DAMAGE. 1d12 of
> damage once you change back to your original form.
We have allowed a mage to give his spell components to someone in the party
and then change into a goblin. Once in goblin form, the mage could not
speak goblin, but could still articulate and cast spells (at some negative
modifier for being unuse to the "new" hands). This ususally allows for one
quick sneak attack, and then the hope of fading into the crowd.
> Some good ideas in using this spell are: scouting enemy positions
> from the air, changing into a particular animal form and scouting an enemy
> lair (rat, snake, etc), changing to something innocuos in order to get in
> a better attack position (such as behind a group of creatures).
This is what it is used for most often. Also getting under a door and
opening it from the other side.
> One other thing, I would say that any spells cast on the mage before
> the polymorph would still be in effect. That would include, invisibilty,
> shield, stoneskin, comp. lang., shocking grasp, ect.
Something that has never really come up yet, but I like the idea.
> Just one humble DM's opinion. Please be aware that I am a great
> the following:
>
>A DM has final word over his game.
>Not everything is in the rules.
>Anything in the rules is subject to the first statement.
>Anything not in the rules is subject to the first statement.
The above is in my rules :-)
>---------------------
>will...@unccvax.uncc.edu
>---------------------
Don Kane xxd...@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov
Eric Jablow
being a loon's cry, a cow's moo, a snake's hiss, etc. just so he can
use them while Polymorphed. Or, a mage can Polymorph himself into a
parrot...
--
Eric Jablow "What's that?" asked Mr. Hennessy.
Metron Inc. "That is," said Mr. Dooley, "no matther whether th'
11911 Freedom Drive constitution follows th' flag or not, th' supreme
Suite 800 coort follows th' iliction returns."
Reston, Virginia 22090 --Finley Peter Dunne
Phone: (703) 787-8700
email: jablow%gro...@enterprise.itd.nrl.navy.mil
Kenneth C Dwyer
>PolySelf is a wonderful spell, but don't use it to increase your
>ability to do combat. From your description, it sounds as if you
>want to combine the damage potential of your weapons with the many
>nify abilities of your spell. I can see a DM holding objections to that.
>A 7th level mage can do enough damage, especially one that the DM allows
>to wield a Bastard sword, doing bastard sword damage, after he runs out of
>spells.
Being a Militant Wizard, using every spell to it's utmost in combat is
just par for the course. It's not just after I run out of spells that I
have to pull out the bastard sword either, when our party is out
numbered or for some other circumstances the rest of the party can't
keep the nasties away from me, then I have to revert to melee weapons -
there is no way you can cast a spell with some nasty trying to claw you
to death.
>PolySelf is a heck of a lot more than an illusion. It is the spell of
>choice among the PC mages in my game, and I restrict it more than your
>DM wants to. And yet it is still the spell of choice, because it gives
>unequalled ability to do movement, spying, and round-by-round flexability.
>And it throws in a d12 of curing at the end in most cases. Spells don't GET
>much better than this at this level.
>Here is how I play it: you don't get access to any item you are carrying
>if you carried it when you changed shape: daggers on belts or in hands
>"melt-in" to the new form and more or less cease to exist until you
>depoly. A +3 dagger doesn't even give you a +3 claw. Rings don't work, not
>even Rings of Regeneration. You can't cast spells, unless the form you
>choose has your sort of mouth (and hands, for somatic spells). Your AC,
>attack damage, and locomotion are those of your new form, discounting
>innate abilities of the new form (poly into a bluejay and you can fly;
>poly into a wingless dragon and you can't). Your number of attacks,
>to-hit, hit points, and mind are those of your normal form. With careful
>choosing, you *can* get forms that make you fight better; but most monsters
>that do great damage with their hands don't have human-enough mouths to
>allow spell casting, so you are making a trade-off. Spells you have
>already cast (Shocking Grasp, etc.), do continue to work. All of this is
>more or less by-the-book.
>[Examples of use of the Polymorph Self spell deleted]
OK, so it does have some nifty effects, I have used several of those you
mentioned already in the 3 games that I've had the spell,
- right when the bad guys were about to spring an ambush, I turn into
a great big nasty critter (I don't know it's real name even now -
but the real creature is quite nasty, they trashed our party).
That kind of upset their plan.
- I found the bad guys hideout (different set of bad guys) and even
managed to creep into their leaders room unnoticed.
- When it came to breaking into the hideout, a little sparrow landed
on the shoulder of the guard (with I might add a natural 20 as the
to hit number) and litterally blew him away with the shocking-grasp
that I'd cast a few minutes previously.
But this was all before my DM thought about changing how the spell was
played. We haven't played a game since then, but there have been lots
of discussions about the spell (I posted to the net after he came up
with something that I thought was wrong), with both his and my
interpretations changing quite a bit. We have now settled down on an
interpretation that closely follows our original interpretation (very
close to the one Loren Miller gave).
One thing you mentioned above was "round-by-round flexibiliity",
my DM says that changing form takes on round, during which you loose
your action. Do you play the spell that way?
Ken.
Kenneth C Dwyer
>In article <1992Jan3.1...@marlin.jcu.edu.au> ce...@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Kenneth C Dwyer) writes:
>>
>>
>>Has anyone had much experience with the Polymorph Self spell?
>>I don't normally read this group so please accept my apologies if there
>>has been a recent discussion on it.
>>
>>I have a 7th level Militant Wizard (2nd Edition AD&D) who has recently
>>obtained the polymorph Self spell, and my DM and I are having a few
>>problems coming to an agreement over what *exactly* happens, especially
>>regarding combat that takes place while my character is using the spell.
>Just some thoughts you might want to take into consideration.
>When the AD&D game first came out, mages were not SUPPOSED to get into melee.
>They had range spells, no armor, lousy weapons all which meant DON'T GET INTO
>a hand to hand fight.
And they were boring mages, I like 2nd Ed's Kit system. The only
real difference between me and a "normal" mage is that I have a bigger
dagger. I still have the wimpy mage hit points (don't I know it!), I
still require lots of magic to give me an AC where there is a _chance_
that I won't be hit in melee, I still have a lousy THAC0 - my dagger
does 2d4 rather than d4 big deal.
> The polymorph self spell is NOT an attack or offensive spell. It
> is meant for concealment, gathering info and escaping, if necessary. It is
> not designed to do what you want. There are a few things about the
> discussion between you and the DM that I wanted to cover also.
The spell specifically mentions things about attacking (the mage
"retains his attack rolls") so melee while the spell was in effect was
part of the original spell intention. Now maybe you don't do much
damage, have a lousy AC etc etc, but that just leaves the decision up to
the mage weather s/he thinks it's worth the risk.
Maybe the spell turns you into a better scout than fighter, but as a
Militant Wizard I am quite interested in the fighting aspect.
> First of all, when the spell takes effect, all items are melded into
> the form you take. I would say any rings, etc would still work, especially
> defensive items. Any item that requires a command word to activate would
> not work, since the form you take is probably not going to be able to speak
> with a "human" voice.
> This means that your weapons probably don't work although you can
> attack with the same THAC0 as you have normally.
Tell me what AC I have and what damage I score, then I can make up my
own mind weather fighting is a good/bad idea.
> The spell gives only the normal movement of the creature that you
> change into. There is nothing "magical" about the speed an eagle flies or
> the movement rate of a cheetah. I would say that the creatures normal move
> is what you get. Note that you CANNOT change into any magical creature, so
> a black pudding, etc is out.
Both 1st and 2nd Edition spell descriptions specifically mention Black
Puddings.
> One other thing, I would say that any spells cast on the mage before
> the polymorph would still be in effect. That would include, invisibilty,
> shield, stoneskin, comp. lang., shocking grasp, ect.
What about Armour? (I use that one, and have used shocking
grasp and vampiric touch)
Ken.
>---------------------
>will...@unccvax.uncc.edu
>---------------------
John Francis
>>PolySelf is a heck of a lot more than an illusion. It is the spell of
>>choice among the PC mages in my game, and I restrict it more than your
>>DM wants to. And yet it is still the spell of choice, because it gives
>>unequalled ability to do movement, spying, and round-by-round flexability.
>>And it throws in a d12 of curing at the end in most cases. Spells don't GET
>>much better than this at this level.
>>
>>Here is how I play it: you don't get access to any item you are carrying
>>if you carried it when you changed shape: daggers on belts or in hands
>>"melt-in" to the new form and more or less cease to exist until you
>>depoly. A +3 dagger doesn't even give you a +3 claw. Rings don't work, not
>>even Rings of Regeneration. You can't cast spells, unless the form you
>>choose has your sort of mouth (and hands, for somatic spells). Your AC,
>>attack damage, and locomotion are those of your new form, discounting
>>innate abilities of the new form (poly into a bluejay and you can fly;
>>poly into a wingless dragon and you can't). Your number of attacks,
>>to-hit, hit points, and mind are those of your normal form. With careful
>>choosing, you *can* get forms that make you fight better; but most monsters
>>that do great damage with their hands don't have human-enough mouths to
>>allow spell casting, so you are making a trade-off. Spells you have
>>already cast (Shocking Grasp, etc.), do continue to work. All of this is
>>more or less by-the-book.
ce...@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Kenneth C Dwyer) responds:
>
>OK, so it does have some nifty effects, I have used several of those you
>mentioned already in the 3 games that I've had the spell,
> - right when the bad guys were about to spring an ambush, I turn into
> a great big nasty critter (I don't know it's real name even now -
> but the real creature is quite nasty, they trashed our party).
> That kind of upset their plan.
> - I found the bad guys hideout (different set of bad guys) and even
> managed to creep into their leaders room unnoticed.
> - When it came to breaking into the hideout, a little sparrow landed
> on the shoulder of the guard (with I might add a natural 20 as the
> to hit number) and litterally blew him away with the shocking-grasp
> that I'd cast a few minutes previously.
>
>But this was all before my DM thought about changing how the spell was
>played. We haven't played a game since then, but there have been lots
>of discussions about the spell (I posted to the net after he came up
>with something that I thought was wrong), with both his and my
>interpretations changing quite a bit. We have now settled down on an
>interpretation that closely follows our original interpretation (very
>close to the one Loren Miller gave).
>
>
>One thing you mentioned above was "round-by-round flexibiliity",
>my DM says that changing form takes on round, during which you loose
>your action. Do you play the spell that way?
>
>
>Ken.
O.K. - it's time for my invaluable (or is that valueless?) opinion.
I've been on both sides of this controversy, and I restrict the power
of the spell (while I am wearing my DM's hat) because of the ease with
which I was able to overplay the polymorph spell as a player. Even with
my additional restrictions, however, I agree with the above assessment of
'Polymorph Self' as the spell of choice if you are capable of learning it.
Taking Scotts excellent spell description as a starting point, the extra
restrictions I impose are:
You may not get the full "attack damage" of you new form, nor the number
of attacks per round of your old form. In a way you can think of this as
a logical extension of the "weapons proficiency": if the new mode of attack
is one you do not fully understand you will not be able to do full damage.
[for example: if you polymorphed into a jackass I would not allow you to
do a both-legs-together double back-kick unless you had spent some time
practising that attack form; If polymorphed into a large lizard you might
have difficulty sweeping things aside with your tail without falling over,
and so would get considerably less damage per attack.]
I would *NOT* allow a previously cast "Shocking Grasp" spell to work;
I claim that this spell requires concentration from the mage to hold
the energy in check, and the concentration would be disrupted by the
act of casting the Polymorph (and by the actual shape-changing).
Furthermore, I have a problem with a tiny sparrow unleashing enough
energy to fry a human guard without being crisped itself. I guess
this is an irrational humanocentric bias, as I have no problem with
the concept of a human mage blowing away a purple worm, but that's how
I see it. I guess the human mage normally stands further away from
ground zero for any spells capable of killing him/her. I rule that
"burning hands" has a somatic component which is tightly integrated
into the attack, and which requires the mages original form. The
sparrow would be incapable of making the right moves.
The other example (creeping into a bandit hideout) is exactly how I
like to see the spell being used. Other good uses are polymorphing
into birds (or fish) in order to scout out the path ahead.
Finally, the most abused feature: the "shift form once a round".
The shape-change may only take a round, but the mage has to be
mentally prepared for the transformation. This means that the
mage must have spent some number of rounds beforehand preparing
himself. In addition, I require the mage to roll dice each time
(s)he tries to shift form; failure means premature termination of
the spell (and no d12 of healing). Trying to change form in a
combat situation incurs a substantial penalty. Naturally, all
penalties are assessed by the DM, who as usual reserves the right
to overrule the dice in the interests of good role-playing.