What is the best Super RPG?
Richard Stokes
any suggestions, I would appreciate it.
Rick
sto...@nku.edu
Nikolaj Lemche
> I am looking to start playying a super hero rpg this summer. If anyone has
> any suggestions, I would appreciate it.
What kind of superhero game do you want to play?
Gritty semi realistic like watchmen or wildcard, then play GURPS supers.
Ultra heroic four color, then play the new Marvel SAGA.
In between, play champions.
Nikolaj Lemche
------------------------------------------------
E-mail: nik...@mail1.stofanet.dk
Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/Kuranov/
Matt Johnston
>
> I am looking to start playying a super hero rpg this summer. If anyone has
> any suggestions, I would appreciate it.
.....and so...it begins .....
(closely followed by flamewar....)
Matt Johnston - mjoh...@nortelnetworks.com - http://zireh503/CSA/
Northern Ireland Macintosh User Group: http://welcome.to/nimug/
Don't be afraid to take big steps.
You can't cross a chasm in two small jumps.
jdes...@novanthealth.org
"Richard Stokes" <Sto...@NKU.EDU> wrote:
> I am looking to start playying a super hero rpg this summer. If anyone has
> any suggestions, I would appreciate it.
This is one of those "can of worms" questions that usually sparks off a holy
war.
What's the best Super RPG? The safe answer is "it depends" (actually, it
depends on what you want.)
If you want to specifically play in one of the big two comic universes (DC or
Marvel) using the characters that appear in the comics, than the games built
around the licenced properties has unique advantages: a wealth of
pre-generated chracters and rules specifically designed around emulating the
characters/powers portrayed in that comic universe are the two that come to
mind.
If you are looking to create your own campaign setting than one of the
"universal" systems will probably be more appealing. GURPs, Hero System, and
Fuzion are probably the more popular; and they have different pros and cons
(that would take far to long to go into in any detail). Personally, I prefer
Hero System - it's a point based, effect-driven system that does a pretty job
of letting you emulate ALMOST any effect or super-power you would want, and
the PCs are inherently "sturdy" allowing for nigh-stupid levels of heroism.
Fuzion is very similar to a scaled down Hero System - the folks who play it
report that they have found it easier to learn and faster to run that Hero
System. GURPs takes a simiar approach to the Superheroes as Hero System, but
the slightly different nature of the game system lends itself to a "grittier,
more realistic" approach to super heroes - nigh-stupid levels of heroism tend
to make you dead.
What would I suggest for you? Scrounge up or borrow as many as you can and
read the rules (Fuzion and GURPs-lite are both available free from the
compnaies web site - as are several other rule-sets if you do a search through
something like www.altavista.com) and pick the one you like.
-=>John Desmarais
http://www.sysabend.org/champions
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Josh Marquart
> I am looking to start playying a super hero rpg this summer. If anyone has
> any suggestions, I would appreciate it.
Well...
It depends, and everyone has their own opinions on the subject.
I'll comment on what I know...
Blood of Heroes is not a very tough system to learn for super-heroes.
http://www.pulsargamesinc.com/
-JD
--
This Message from Joshua Marquart
DC Heroes - Blood of Heroes - Paranoia
http://w3.one.net/~joshdm
Sidhain
of superheroes better than others. So pick one learn it and play.
Simple to play:
Marvel Saga
Marvel Superheroes Advanced set (OOP)
Blood of Heroes
Medium Complexity
Gurps
Champions TNM
High Complecity
Hero System/Champions
Detail/Realism/Comicbookness
Marvel Saga: Low Detail/Realism High Comicbookness
Marvel Superheros: Medium all three
Blood of Heroes: Medium Detail/Low Realism/Medium
Comicbookness
Gurps: High Detail/Realism/Low comicbookness
Champions: TNM Medium Detail/Medium Realism Medium
Comicbookness
Hero System-Champions: High Detail/Medium to High Realism/ Medium
Comicbookness
Sidhain
just a
>lot of calculations for character generation, because everything is based
on
>point-cost and you can add loads of modifiers to increase and decrease the
>point cost.
Actually I call it complex because my first experience with Champions I
watched a single superhero battle before getting to play that took an hour
and a half to resolve, knowing what i know about Champions and other games
the same battle should have only been a quick exchange of blows and on with
the rest of the adventure, in any other game but Champions this would have
been the case.
The battle wouldn't have taken an hour and a half to resolve....
and the GM was experienced had been playing for years so the system wasn't
unfamiliar to him.
I asked other past players how long an average battle took between too
similar Character or counter- character types and got between 45mins and an
two hours to resolve single conflicts...
Sorry thank you no, spending an hour and a half role-playing is fine, but
not roll-playing not just fighting and resolving the fight.
I don't play wargames for that same reason
Now admittedly Champions has lots of options but their is a balance between
ease, realism and time required that makes Champions not my first game of
choice....Doesn't mean I don't think its a good system it is....just not for
superheroes.
ChaosInc
I'd go with the old Champions system (I'm not acquainted with Fuzion or recent
editions of it).
I don't know why people call it "complex." It's not complex, there are just a
lot of calculations for character generation, because everything is based on
point-cost and you can add loads of modifiers to increase and decrease the
point cost.
After character generation, it's a snap.
And you don't have to carefully calculate the costs of villains and NPC's,
which is a mistake a lot of people make. Just give them whatever powers you
want; the hell with how much they cost. You'll have a basic idea of how tough
the character is, even with the point cost not calculated down to the last
point.
Drake
wrote:
>>I don't know why people call it "complex." It's not complex, there are
>just a
>>lot of calculations for character generation, because everything is based
>on
>>point-cost and you can add loads of modifiers to increase and decrease the
>>point cost.
>
>
>
>Actually I call it complex because my first experience with Champions I
>watched a single superhero battle before getting to play that took an hour
>and a half to resolve, knowing what i know about Champions and other games
>the same battle should have only been a quick exchange of blows and on with
>the rest of the adventure, in any other game but Champions this would have
>been the case.
>The battle wouldn't have taken an hour and a half to resolve....
>and the GM was experienced had been playing for years so the system wasn't
>unfamiliar to him.
>I asked other past players how long an average battle took between too
>similar Character or counter- character types and got between 45mins and an
>two hours to resolve single conflicts...
Wow...I've run Champs since the original blue book hit the stands, and
I'd have to say that a fight in one of my games has rarely taken up so
much gaming time. On the occassions they do, it's generally because
it's a drawn-out combat in which the villain is retreating in an
attempt to recover, then attacking again, or the villain group has
broken up into several parts, and the heroes are hunting them down,
etc.
I started a campaign a few months ago, and the definite trend is
toward role-playing over combat. The players have a great time
swingin' fists and shootin' rays, but they also are really enjoying
the more character-oriented aspects of the game.
Sidhain
>toward role-playing over combat. The players have a great time
>swingin' fists and shootin' rays, but they also are really enjoying
>the more character-oriented aspects of the game.
>
>
But that can be done in any game.
I don't find Champions too complex myself, or even too long when I am
running it, but I don't tend to use it for Superheroes, I am more likely to
run it for Fantasy, or Sci Fi.
Drake
wrote:
Boy, I tried the Hero system for both of those (as well as for
cyberpunk, using the not-even-close-to-being-edited-correctly Cyber
Hero rules), but for what little straight fantasy I run these days I
use GURPS, and I don't play too much sci-fi (or cyber) anymore. I
always found that the rules really lagged the game down once the hit
location rules were in use, and the spells always felt like converted
powers (which they basically were).
Generally I really enjoy running Vampire, with its easy-to-use system
mechanics, but I still haven't been able to find a better superhero
game than Champs. Which leads me to ask what system you're using for
supers, if you're playing them at all?
Joe Jefferson
>
> Actually I call it complex because my first experience with Champions I
> watched a single superhero battle before getting to play that took an hour
> and a half to resolve, knowing what i know about Champions and other games
> the same battle should have only been a quick exchange of blows and on with
> the rest of the adventure, in any other game but Champions this would have
> been the case.
> The battle wouldn't have taken an hour and a half to resolve....
> and the GM was experienced had been playing for years so the system wasn't
> unfamiliar to him.
> I asked other past players how long an average battle took between too
> similar Character or counter- character types and got between 45mins and an
> two hours to resolve single conflicts...
> not roll-playing not just fighting and resolving the fight.
> I don't play wargames for that same reason
> Now admittedly Champions has lots of options but their is a balance between
> ease, realism and time required that makes Champions not my first game of
> choice....Doesn't mean I don't think its a good system it is....just not for
> superheroes.
My first experience was even worse. Since I wasn't familiar with the
rules I just came up with a character concept and the GM created the
actual stats. Then in my very first battle my character was promptly
knocked unconscious _before_ I was able to take even a single action
because my PD was too low. The battle lasted all evening, during which I
was able to do nothing except watch. (I was lucky though. Another
player's character was killed about two minutes into the fight.)
Now I realize there was bad GMing involved which can happen in any game,
but if it had been V&V or DCH at least the fight would have ended much
quicker and I would have been able to recover and get a chance to
actually play. I completely agree that Champions isn't a good system at
all for superheroes, especially the four-color genre where the emphasis
is on action, quick thinking, and doing the nearly impossible at the
most dramatic possible moment.
--
Joe of Castle Jefferson
http://www.primenet.com/~jjstrshp/
Site updated August 8th, 1998.
"Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the
poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the
hand of the wicked." - Psalm 82:3-4.
Sidhain
>mechanics, but I still haven't been able to find a better superhero
>game than Champs. Which leads me to ask what system you're using for
>supers, if you're playing them at all?
Me?
Well I use Marvel Saga for adventures in the Marvel Universe my Shadow X-men
Campaign.
For my own World I use Marvel Superheroes (non saga) because my world is a
bit more "realistic"
I have a friend about t run a game based of "Thundar the Barbarian"
using Fuzion (Yes MR Blackmoor I realize you have a page doing this for Over
the Edge, but personally I think Over the Edge is a poor choice, though I do
think you did a good job with what you had)
I have run campaigns in Champions
Team Epsilon (Cops with superpowers)
and Heroes Unlimited ( NEVER EVER AGAIN SHALL I TRY THIS ONE its not worth
the headaches or the idiotic assumptions made its designer.)
But I tend to stick with Marvel Saga/MSH simple systems that work well, I
use some optional rules/house things from time to time for MSH
but that's Random Damage (from Dragon Magazine) or something similar.
Are these the best?
For ME yes they are...for you? I don't know borrow them from a friend, take
a look at them and decide what works for you....You like WW system? Well
wait for Aberrant...
Christian Conkle
>
> I have a friend about t run a game based of "Thundar the Barbarian"
> using Fuzion (Yes MR Blackmoor I realize you have a page doing this for Over
> the Edge, but personally I think Over the Edge is a poor choice, though I do
> think you did a good job with what you had)
>
Wow! Hey! That's wierd. We came up with the same idea several months ago! We
thought "What about a Thundarr the Barbarian RPG?" we then thought, "What
rules would best suit it?" and we came to the same conclusion: Fuzion. Hah!
Sorry for the OT post, but the synchronicity was just too much to ignore.
--
-----------------------------------------------------
Christian Conkle
Web Development Specialist
Northwest Regional Educational Laboratory
Sidhain
We
>thought "What about a Thundarr the Barbarian RPG?" we then thought, "What
>rules would best suit it?" and we came to the same conclusion: Fuzion. Hah!
>
>Sorry for the OT post, but the synchronicity was just too much to ignore.
That's not really off topic Thundarr has more to do with superheroes than it
does with ordinary fantasy games. We chose Fuzion because it was best to
simulate the "Machines, Magic, and weird powers" of the world better than
something like *cough* Rifts system...and I am the only Hero advocate of the
group (and noticing from my pots I am not much an advocate *L*)
So far we have a Mok Warrior, a Female Barbarian who may or may not have a
magical item....a Sorcerer who covers his body from head to toe and "is
hideous" so he thinks whether its true or not *shrugs*
and maybe a Werewolf......depends on if I play the Sorcerer or the Werewolf
*L* since I get to play in this game..instead of run it (truly Hell hath
Frosted Over) *L*
Drake
wrote:
>But I tend to stick with Marvel Saga/MSH simple systems that work well, I
>use some optional rules/house things from time to time for MSH
>but that's Random Damage (from Dragon Magazine) or something similar.
>
>Are these the best?
>For ME yes they are...for you? I don't know borrow them from a friend, take
>a look at them and decide what works for you....You like WW system? Well
>wait for Aberrant...
>
I have a copy of the Marvel SAGA system and actually like it. I was
impressed with the fast-paced nature of the game, as well as the
character creation system, which allowed a fairly good chance of a
wide variety of power levels at the game's outset. I was actually
considering running it instead of Champs recently, but Champs does
have superior rules for skills and equipment, among other things.
Also, 2 of my players are long-time Champs players as well, so that
really makes it somewhat easier to run (as opposed to trying to start
a new game with a bunch of players who've never played it
before...nightmare time!).
I'll probably take a look at Aberrant, but it's set in it's own world
(as Pinnacle's Brave New World will be as well), and I'm pretty happy
with the superhero universe I've worked up over the last 15+ years.
Sidhain
>impressed with the fast-paced nature of the game, as well as the
>character creation system, which allowed a fairly good chance of a
>wide variety of power levels at the game's outset. I was actually
>considering running it instead of Champs recently, but Champs does
>have superior rules for skills and equipment, among other things.
>Also, 2 of my players are long-time Champs players as well, so that
>really makes it somewhat easier to run (as opposed to trying to start
>a new game with a bunch of players who've never played it
>before...nightmare time!).
>
>I'll probably take a look at Aberrant, but it's set in it's own world
>(as Pinnacle's Brave New World will be as well), and I'm pretty happy
>with the superhero universe I've worked up over the last 15+ years.
>
True, if you want true to the genre stick with something which does have
rules for all things...like Champs or MSAGA...
I would suggest you run a MSAGA game for everyone just once as a quick
little scenario, many of the Champs players I have dealt with got weak
knee-ed and played and were surprised to find they enjoyed MSaga, maybe not
as a replacement for Champions but as something they would like to play
again.
Albert Deschesne
Albert
----------
In article <7gt7ou$rij$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Christian Conkle
Christian Conkle
> > Wow! Hey! That's wierd. We came up with the same idea several
months ago! We
> > thought "What about a Thundarr the Barbarian RPG?" we then thought,
"What
> > rules would best suit it?" and we came to the same conclusion:
Fuzion. Hah!
> >
> > Sorry for the OT post, but the synchronicity was just too much to
ignore.
>
In article <rl5Z2.2230$2j3....@clnws01.we.mediaone.net>,
"Albert Deschesne" <AlbertD...@MediaOne.net> wrote:
> Wouldn't this be best played in Gamma World for T$R?
> Albert
>
No, not really. Gamma World was very different from Thundarr the
Barbarian, though they did have some similarities. Thundarr had a lot
more magic and wasn't quite so "bizzare" in their mutations.
Besides, I never really liked the Gamma World system. It was too much
like AD&D with Armor classes etc. Fuzion provides built-in
expandability and customizability, and the core system is nice and
simple.
--
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Christian Conkle
Web Development Specialist
Northwest Regional Educational Laboratory
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---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
Sidhain
>No, not really. Gamma World was very different from Thundarr the
>Barbarian, though they did have some similarities. Thundarr had a lot
>more magic and wasn't quite so "bizzare" in their mutations.
>
>Besides, I never really liked the Gamma World system. It was too much
>like AD&D with Armor classes etc. Fuzion provides built-in
>expandability and customizability, and the core system is nice and
>simple
Actually I have owned every version of Gamma World, and not all have as
strong an AD&D influence as the last one..(4th edition I believe)
However Fuzion does work much better, because of the amount of Magic.
(considering spellcasting is not typical Fantasy/AD&D/other but more akin to
superpowers in many respects using either the Champions TNM or Total Powers
type plugins worked much better than Atomik Magic (BTW the resources for
Fuzion available for free tend to be good, Total Powers is detailed
conversion of every Hero system power, and a few for a Supers-Mecha
crossover setting ) the and while informative its not pretty Atomik however
(I wish I had bothered to check who had done the site) is incredible with
downloadable PDF and such. But I digress Gamma World has no real
similarities to Thundarr, other than being post apocalyptic, Tribe 8, nor
Aftermath are not any closer either...it was almost closest to Rifts, except
honestly with more sense than Rifts has shown (which is sad since THundarr
was a "kiddy" cartoon even if it was well done and Rifts is supposed to be
aimed at adolescents and adults)