RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 01 Sep 1994, part 1
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
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From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: h...@lett.kun.nl
Message-ID: <H.ea.WqT...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 31 Aug 94 08:23:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5957
Hi, Hans,
I'd love to get a copy of your video. I'd like to show it on German
RuneQuest-Con in Berln next May. You and Henk are invited to attend,
of course, but I know that at Pentecost there always is the game fair
in the Netherlands, which is a lot closer (but less RuneQuesty).
Is there any chance to get the Baltimore con video as well?
Just in case, my snail-mail address is
Joerg Baumgartner
Klinkerwisch 36
24107 Kiel
Germany
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
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From: ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Vinga
Message-ID: <940831083...@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 31 Aug 94 12:34:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5958
Bryan wrote:
> Of course, I expect little acceptance of this on the daily, since my ideas
> on Vinga just don't seem to be mainstream enough.
at the end of a good piece on Vinga.
Bryan, you've got at least one supporter in this.
/Nils W
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: More legalisms, jibes, and pedantry. Act surprised.
Message-ID: <940831085...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 31 Aug 94 08:56:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5959
Alison Place:
> In 1988, TSR (used to stand for Tactical Studies Rules, now
>stands for nothing in particular)
Now stands for They Sue Regularly, no? SJG did a Useless Table of these,
once...
Sandy:
> Given that North Americans actually
> live in a country where both moose and elk exist, whereas our British
> and German friends don't have any of 'em, unless you count the
> undersized Red Deer, you'd think they'd give more credence to our
> debased American interpretations of these beasts.
We might, if you'd managed to take the term originally applied to one of
these two in Europe, and affix it to the right one when you straggled over
to your current continent. "Ah yes, this fierce, noble beast here must be
the Elk, the thing we kept falling over laughing at back home. Shoot that
fellow over there mumbling something about a `wapiti'."
Oh, and I think Joerg and I can both claim to have cohabited, country-wise,
with _Alces alces_, so there. <*schblerrrt!*> (Okay, not that I actually
_saw_ one... Lot of magpies, though.)
> Joerg
> >If you mean the red deer of Europe, that's at most SIZ 13, not the
> >SIZ 22 buggers you talk about below.
> The "Deer" of the RuneQuest Official Monsters Book is in fact
> the European Red Deer (which is bigger than SIZ 13, at least for
> bucks).
Bucks, schmux. "Harts", or "stags", please. The deer stats seemed
red-deer-ish enough to me. But _Cervus canadensis_ isn't _that_ much
bigger, is it? Egads, of all the weirdest, of all possible stats, to
end up lacking after the Great RQ3 deGloranthasisation...
> >English hasn't been heard in the United States for a century.
> While I cheerfully accept such billingsgate from ostensible
> English speakers, I balk at doing so from someone whose native tongue
> is another Germanic language entirely.
I don't think "Germanic language" adequately villifies English as it was
when the English got their hands on it, never mind after what everyone else
has done to it since.
Hoots mon.
Alex.
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Jaxarte in Chomoro
Message-ID: <01HGKISFH...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 1 Sep 94 05:03:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5960
G'day,
Reply to Peter Whitelaw (copied to RQ Daily):
___________________________
Jaxarte in Chomoro?
Doubt if he's done more than pass through, on his way to Duke Raus's
domain. Entry in his Sun County trip (TALES #4, Sun County Book) says
"Chomoro. 619 souls. At the far southern end of the Sun Dome Lands".
That's it I'm afraid. Given that Duke Raus ain't got much happening down
his way, this is probably the "big smoke" for those who live in Weis
Domain. Also, note that the Sun Dome Militia stationed there (see
militia section in Sun County) are the only Sun Domers to muck
about in boats, and are in fact detailed in the scenario of "River of
Cradles".
Hope this gets you thinkin'. When you know more about Chomoro, tell me!
Cheers
MOB
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 27 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940831103...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 31 Aug 94 10:33:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5961
Sandy:
> Alex:
> > I merely said that it seemed to make sense that the Damali and the
> >Pralori weren't the same people, and didn't totemise the _same_
> >animal.
> I don't think anyone has argued for that at all.
I couldn't tell what people were arguing at when I made my original posting;
this was back when I thought everyone agreed what an elk was. I was merely
spelling out the "Pralori :: elk" link (not explicitly stated in G:G), since
I couldn't see where else people were misplacing the beasties. This is
getting a bit beside(r) the point, though, other than to bludgeon home that
I wasn't making the Spurious Argument I was being accused of. (Though I
ask for several hundred other offences to be taken into consideration.)
> Though I'm not sure what exact type of deer the Damali
> worship, I'm sure it is a different genus from the Pralori animal,
> and I'm also sure that the Damali beastie is much smaller.
Back when I thought Pralori were el-- Alces alces, and Damali were red d--
Cervus elaphus, it all made Perfect Sense to me. Could I make a plausible
case for having been Sandied? ;-) (Not that I've run a game anywhere near
Pralorela, so not a huge deal anyway.) Maybe we should save the red deer
for Dragon Pass, where it even makes linguistic sense. ("Heort"land.)
> Aren't there any small deer in Europe besides fallow? Fallow
> seem to be _too_ small, from what I've heard. Whitetail deer are
> reasonably-sized and well-antlered. They'd be suitable for Damali.
Well, there are roe deer. Even smaller. Too small for what, if I can
ask this in mixed (not to say positively assorted) company?
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Who's Infinite, then?
Message-ID: <940831104...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 31 Aug 94 10:41:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5962
Jonas:
> Well, like I said earlier, I think the _malkioni_ consider the IG to be the
> original owner of Law, since they identify him/it with the Creator. I see
> nothing strange in the Creator being the origin of Law. But of course
> theists might argue that the identification is wrong to begin with.
A Malkioni would say, "What's the One True God doing in this list of
pagan demons?" A theist would say, "The Invisible God doesn't exist,
so he's not the origin of anything". Only a crazed theorist or a
died-in-the-wool henotheist would made this sort of classification of
the IG along with "other gods". And RQ3:5 gives a different original
origin (pardon the tautology) for Law, so not even all the crazed
theorists...
> Why? I don't think the origin deities of Man, Beast etc ([...])
> were in the Court either, so why should Flamal be any
> different?
Exactly, that's the sticking point. (For my theory, that is.)
What makes me unhappy about the Original Owner idea is that it seems to
depend of taking a fairly arbitrary set of runes, and giving the Infinity
rune to _their_ owners. After all, do the Original Owners of say, the
Undeath/Hunger rune, the Cold rune, the Shadow rune, the dragonewt rune, etc,
plus the megasagans of non-God-Learner-crinkle-cut ones all have the Infinity
rune? Presumably not.
Voting for Ex Officio membership of the Celestial Court for the Forms,
Alex.
---------------------
From: JAR...@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Praxian Animals
Message-ID: <9408311104.AA03815@Sun.COM>
Date: 31 Aug 94 11:05:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5963
Hi All
The question arose of what lives in Prax, especially carnivors.
1) Hyena (enough said)
2) Vultures and Condors (including the giant condors at Condor Crags;
see Borderlands gor details).
3) Griffins (a pride lives on top of he Block) and there would be others
where there were safe nesting sites.
4) Hippogrifs may live/have lived in Prax (isn't one of the Rubble gates
called Hippogrif gate?).
5) Various Snakes including rattle snakes (so that shamans can use the
rattle!).
6) Shadow Cats in various sizes (Prax is too barren to support large cats
but smaller species can continue to survive.
7) Jackels and other small canine types.
8) Rubble Runners (Omnivores!!!).
9) Apes and Monkeys (some are omnivores).
10) Morocanth
11) Various Chaos Monsters
12) The occassional Manticore
13) The occassional Wyrm (see Griffin Gate in the Rubble)
14) Men (including Trolls & Dwarves etc).
OK some of the above are intelligent which was not the spirit of the question. Also I suspect some of you will be able to add to this list, but at least it
forms a good basis. It also proves that the food chain is complete, otherwise
there would be precious little to prey on the vast wild herds occassionally
encountered.
Cheers
Lewis
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Numerous spellings of the lion-eagle-type-thing.
Message-ID: <940831111...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 31 Aug 94 11:15:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5964
Pam Carlson:
> Does anyone know where the story of horses' devolution from birds can be
> found?
From Hippogriffs, in fact... It's mentioned in GoG. I can't recall a
fuller version, though it's alluded to in various places, such as in
the Zorak Zoran cult writeup, he being one of the culprits. It doesn't
come up in GRAY, sadly. What I find odd about this origin is that it
_doesn't_ relate birds on the one hand, to griffins, hippogriffs, and
horses on the other. Except via King Gryphon's (unacknowledged)
descent from Yelm, I suppose.
> >In the Godtime there'd have been lions, too, but they're
> >gone. All that is left are humans, morocanth, and hyenas.
> Are there any aerial predators, like griffins or really big raptors?
There's the family of griffins at the Block, though they may just about
unique, in Prax.
Alex.
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From: jonas....@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Beastly tricks.
Message-ID: <940831133...@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 31 Aug 94 17:38:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5966
Pam Carlson in X-RQ-ID: 5949
>Does anyone know where the story of horses' devolution from birds can be
>found?
Off the top of my head: "Gods of the Sky" in Wyrm's Footnotes and the Yelm
write-up in White Wolf. I seem to recall a brief allusion to it in King of
Sartar as well, but don't quote me on that.
>Do hyaenas have get respect from humans due to their association with the
>Trickster?
Hyenas are associated with Trickster? I thought that was coyotes? Anyway,
such an association would _not_ get them any respect.
While we're on the subject - does anyone know if there are any Trickster
worshippers in Prax? Native ones, I mean. Perhaps Raven from the Three
Feathered Rivals would qualify?
I liked your initiation description, BTW.
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
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From: gkc...@udcf.gla.ac.uk (S.Phillips)
Subject: Boons-a-maloon, subcult of Hortair
Message-ID: <13744.199...@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 31 Aug 94 13:57:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5967
Alison:
> I just received my RQ-Con Compendium today, and have read it from
>front to back. Yes, people should definitely shell out the $15 to
>purchase one. I only regret that I didn't ask David to put his
>autograph in it.
What.. All of them? Surely, there wouldn't have been room..
;-) Sam, x. NSBS.
PS: I thought that Moonboats were driven by the power of Forstar, dwarvern God
of indigestion. Or was it Owtbord, god of ruined picnics.. Or Hortair, god
of Godlearner discussions.. Hmm, p639, WtFwTqA of was it p789 of BaSt:AirD?
keep taking the tablets %^)
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From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Wapiti/red deer
Message-ID: <_2547_Wed_Aug_31_08:57:26_1...@bnr.ca>
Date: 31 Aug 94 04:55:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5968
From Alison Place, not Ian Gorlick
Concerning the red deer/wapiti status, there is disagreement concerning whether
the European and North American populations are subspecies of Cervus elaphus, or
two separate species, Cervus elaphus (Europe and Western Asia) and C. canadensis
(North America and Eastern Asia). The dividing line between the two is in the
Tien Shan mountains in western China. I rather think that they are two species,
based on the stated differences in mating calls, colour patterns, average weight
and gestation period.
Since both have been imported to New Zealand, it is quite possible that a North
American population is what Peter Metcalfe is seeing, but still called by the
European common name. These bulls can run to 450kg and a shoulder height of 150
cm, with 12-point antlers, versus a maximum weight of 300kg and height of 127cm
for the European sp. At any rate, I'll bet that Irish Murphy's deer are North
American wapiti!
---------------------
From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Moose & Asses
Message-ID: <_2457_Wed_Aug_31_08:56:34_1...@bnr.ca>
Date: 31 Aug 94 04:54:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5969
Sandy Petersen: "While a
moose is manifestly big enough and strong enough to put the kibosh on
your station wagon, they don't _do_ it. But anyone with the slightest
bit of wilderness savvy knows to keep away from elk in the wrong
season."
Sorry to disagree with you Sandy, but...
Up in Newfoundland and northern Ontario and Quebec, where moose are
common, people know to be very careful in rutting season. If you see a
moose on the road, you stop your car or truck, turn off the headlights
and motor, and DO NOT HONK THE HORN. Then you wait patiently for the
moose to move. The horn, or sometimes just the roar of the motor, may
antagonize a bull in rut, and if it does then he will trash your
vehicle. In fact, moose in rut have been known to attack 18 wheelers and
even locomotives.
Moose hsunchen should be regarded as somewhat more excitable than Storm
Bull berserkers with even less concern for personal safety.
Make use of the common American misconception about the mighty moose.
I suggest that GMs should cheerfully use moose and moose hsunchen. Let
the players foolishly consider them nothing more serious than
'Bullwinklings'. Then let the moose-men show their true nature and scare
the s--t out of the party.
Sandy again: "I'm not sure
where native wild burros live on Earth. There are some wild asses in
the midEast, but I betcha they're not quite the same."
The asiatic ass is found in Syria, Iran, Northern India, and Tibet. The
african ass is found in Sudan, Ethiopia, and Somalia. (Encyclopedia of
Mammals, Facts on File, 1985)
For those who think of burros as small, you should realize that the
common burro is actually a dwarf variety of the wild ass. The wild ass
masses in at almost 300kg, as big or bigger than the zebras.
---------------------
From: gkc...@udcf.gla.ac.uk (S.Phillips)
Subject: Vinga Wind-sister, Vonga She-man, Fluffy-bunny-wunny-daisy-waisy-Voria
Message-ID: <2903.199...@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 31 Aug 94 15:37:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5970
HI FROM SAM
-----------
Bryan J. Maloney on Vinga:
>As for Vinga, I have ALWAYS seen her as Orlanth's sister. What evidence is
>there that she is Orlanth's daughter? I see her as one of the many unsung
>and underappreciated daughters of Umath. She is an Orlanth "subcult" in
>many Theyalan cultures because they just can't figure her out otherwise.
This is interesting. As a person interested in all things Vingan this makes a
lot of sense. Probably more sense than the Orlanth daughter idea. This way she
is more independent and has more reason to be so.
>"Vinga Wind-Sister", who arranged the marriage for her
>little brother, Orlanth
I'm not sure that most Orlanthi would like the Idea of Vinga being older than
Orlanth. I am sure they would see here as the wayward LITTLE sister. I
can see Orlanthi's telling stories to their children of Orlanth's "naughty
little sister".. Maybe I just love a cliche..
>However, she's also a hell-raiser and is invoked, by men and women alike,
>when people decide to throw a real rip-snorter of a party.
Where does the vengeance come in. Is she a rip-roarer because she is trying
to hide her sorrow? Why is she so angry? I do not protest againsed Vinga being
a party Animal but I do think she should have a serious and deadly side.
I see her as a protector of wayward women. Probably *from* male party animals.
>Vinga also has been known to take Orlanth down a peg or two when it looks like
>he's been neglecting his duties to Ernalda.
Yes. I like this. She is a hothead. But I would like her to be smarter than
Orlanth. Able to show him up in an argument. Make him rant, stutter and cry.
The way only a sister can. "Brotherly love? Pah! Let me tell you...[cut]"
My idea of Vinga is as a cult for Orlanthi women who do not fit the traditional
submisive gender role. The adventerous, the abused, the angry, the lesbians,
the intellectuals, the party-animals, the man-haters, the female cross-dressers,the tom-boys.. Put them all together and you end up with a dangerously motivated
and explosive mix of people. Banned from most Geo's no doubt..
This fits nicely with Bryan's idea of Vinga the Goddess. Perhaps she was abused
by Umath and is a father hater. She would love Orlanth as a brother but hate
him as a father-figure. She would protect and honour her brother, but dishonour
and disobey her king. This way she becomes akin to a Stormbull for women without
the chaos hunting and macho bullshit (pun intended ;-). More cunning, more
disruptive and a great source of game fun, and the kind of cult my female
players would want to join. (Oops, Godlearner inside showing up again)..
This got me thinking.
---WARNING!.. THE FOLLOWING MAY BE CONSIDERED PC (NO, NOT NPC ;-)!-------------
VONGA : Godess of wayward men (subcult of Vinga)
------------------------------------------------
(Well, if the women can have one.. what about the men?)
Vonga was originally Orlanth's baby brother, Vengarth. Over protected by his
mother and "different" from an early age. As he grew up it became clear that he
had a very strong feminine streak and declared at his initiation his intention
to become a woman by attending the court with a painted face and keys apon his
belt, proclaiming his new name. Orlanth "Stormed" out, disowning him.
Since this day Vonga has lived outside the main hall, staying with his big
sister Vinga who has protected him from the wrath of his brother. Through a
power of the Mobility rune, gained through many hard quests he has slowly been
turning into a women.
Followers of Vonga are derided and cursed by all. They tend to congregate in
towns, unable to live the life they were destined for on their homestead. They
have an association with Uleria who gave them the secret of womenly-love, and
of course Vinga who took them in and protects them from their kin. They
constantly HeroQuest to discover and claim for themselves the secrets of
womenhood.
Many an Orlanthi swear-word includes Vonga, or the "Vongan Path". Though
not outside the law like an Eurmal, no one apart from other Vongans would be
outraged or worried about the beating or murder of a Vongan. That is, apart
from the Vingans (- not a bunch I would like to Piss-off!..).
----------------------------End of PC Zone------------------------------------
On the subject of Orlanthi cults that begin with a "V"...
Voria:
------
My Vorian is like a brownie leader (no not those elven folk, the girl guide
type - although there may be little between). She takes large packs of small
children on long adventures into the woods, they look after the small animals
and the pretty plants and flowers. They talk to trees and sit on toadstools.
(Sounds subversive to me!). She is bossy, loud, overbearing, sickeningly kind
and a *real* pain in the arse. I love her. My players hate her. Modelled on an
Ex-Girlfreind, she is also far from Virginal ;-). I'm sure that Vorians were
some kind of unifrom.. I also think that they consort with elven types. Faerie
groves, cutesy-bunnies and all that what-not.. Baby-talk is compulsory,too.
I have a Vorian adventure for Varmandisaga. I must finish it and include it.
Eeeuuggghhh! Ptoo! That left a dirty taste in my mouth..
Cheers,
Sam. x.
Not Spam but Sam. Not David nor Divad. Not Vinga but Vonga.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: DP magical units again
Message-ID: <H.ea.P7R...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 31 Aug 94 15:02:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5971
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 5945
> Joerg
>>Lightning and Thunderbolt are somewhat Storm parallels to Sunspears,
>>Sever Spirit is Yanafal Tarnils magic (although one-use), and
>>Thunderstones are similar to Selenes in their effect. I was talking
>>about mind-affecting spells, something the Lunars dominate.
> The point is that a band of Orlanthi magicians are going to
> have just as much attack Rune magic as a band of Lunars. The Orlanthi
> won't have as many mind-affecting spells, but neither would a band of
> Pent nomads or trolls (unless you count Fear). The Lunars have lots
> of mental spells. The Orlanthi don't. On the other hand, the Orlanthi
> have more effective physical spells (reusable Sever Spirit,
> Lightning, Thunderbolt as opposed to most Lunar priests lack any
> access to Sunspear) and move like hell on wheels (Flight, carried by
> sylphs, Teleport). This makes them different from the Lunars in
> combat, which is a Good Thing.
True. However, their magical units in DP work on similar principles. IMO
this indicates that these different magics aren't used when the spirit
of such a regiment is sent out. The effectiveness of Orlanthi combat
divine magic is reflected in the high combat values of the cavalry units
of the Sartarite Magical Union.
Hell on wheels describes the Storm Brothers fairly exactly, but none
of the other magical regiments of Sartar. I think that other Orlanthi
would have similar, possibly less powerful units like this - e.g. the
Oxhead temple near Dorastor, or Garundyer's followers. Maybe even the
Praxian Orlanthi of Pairing Stone.
Pent Nomads would have Shaman units similar to the Praxian tribes, at
least post-Sheng Seleris Pentans. 2nd Age Pure Horse People seem to
have had different magic from the Praxians. Any volunteers for making
a Nomad Gods scenario for Second Age Prax? The Praxian units would be
identical to those of standard NG (again, does anybody have the French
game with the Dragon Pass compatible rules, not those played at
Convulsion which still use the ratio combat resolution tables?), the
Pure Horse people could use the Grazer units from DP, but would need
additional counters. I'd toss in the Barbarian horde (dark green in DP)
minus Jaldon, on grounds of the Black Net story in KoS for the founding
of the Pol Joni, but this would be barely enough to replay Alavan Argay
(a crushing defeat for the horse nomads).
Warning: the following scenario hasn't been playtested, it is just a
try to get started with more variants for the DP/NG game. Copyright
August 94 by Joerg Baumgartner (is this ok with you, Alex?).
The battle of Alavan Argay:
Pure Horse Tribe:
uses the Grazelander (best twice) and the Barbarian Horde counters
without Feathered Horse Queen and Jaldon, plus 6 additional counters
for horse herds, a khan or hero counter, Golden Bow (use Lightning
Boy or High Llama Founder for an approximation?), Hippoi (identical
to High Llama protectress?) and maybe an Ancestor counter.
Praxians: use Sable, Impala and Bison tribes, including tribal deities.
Divide up medicine bundles between Praxian tribes and horse tribe (for
each bundle the Horse people receive each tribe gets one).
Setup: Similar to scenario 3, but not centered upon the Paps, instead
use Tourney Altar as centre. Only the area west of the Paps and Biggle
Stone hexes is used.
The Parts of the Devil will appear in the marsh hexes. The Eternal Battle
starts at Winter Ruins. Spirits can be allied at the altars.
The game will last for 8 rounds.
Victory: The Praxians try to eliminate the Pure Horse People, who
in turn try to survive. Since I had no chance to playtest this yet,
I'm a bit unclear about victory.
Variant a:
The Pure Horse people try to escape across the plains hexes between
Jaldon's Point and Barbarian Town.
For each support unit (horse herd or medicine bundle) they bring here,
accompanied by a combat unit each, they get a victory point. For each
pair remaining on the board or slain, the Praxians get a victory point.
Stacking limits: In chapparal a maximum of three full units may be stacked.
in summer fertile ground, no limit for stacking if a support unit is
included. No stacking of full units at all in the Dead Place.
Anyone volunteering for a play by email game of this? If someone comes
up with an impartial way to roll the die, I can provide the maps and
army listings.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Morokanth fighting archers
Message-ID: <H.ea.LZF...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 31 Aug 94 15:04:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5972
Martin Crim asks for Morocanth anti-missile tactics in X-RQ-ID: 5954
> Question: how have the Morokanth managed to survive on the
> plain(e)s of Prax? Even the Bison and High Llama riders have
> some members with missile weapons. Against Zebra, Sable, or
> Impala riders, the Morokanth would seem to be so much toast. The
> mounted foes can keep their distance and prevent the Morokanth
> from escaping, meanwhile pincushioning our tapir-like friends.
> The Morokanth have no missile weapons except the herd-men's
> pathetic Thrown Rocks to return fire. The Morokanth have no
> reputation for magical superiority, and in any case the range of
> bows is greater than the range of spirit magic.
True, the Morocanth lack effective missile weapons, and their magic
does nothing on range either. My answer is: they don't shoot back,
but they maneuver in spearheads.
Lacking decent hands, they cannot wield weapons or shields _and_ run
quickly. However, they will have martial artists with Mobility, Ironclaw
and Protection active who suddenly burst forth from their protective
formations.
The Morocanth warriors will have 6-point armour except on the limbs.
Speedart will help, Multimissile is mostly futile.
Even a composite bow will penetrate this only on a lucky shot
(impales and 7 or 8 point damage), and the damage usually can be healed
or ignored. Their RQ3 move of 4 is pityfully slow compared to an
Impala's 13.
If the Impalas attack, they'll try to remain in about 60 metres
distance - effective bow range (forget about the 90 or 120m ranges,
not even against single Morocanth), but outside of magic range. The
Morocanth are aware of this and form small outrunning groups of
warriors, a dozen each or so, at intervals of about 50 metres. These
warriors have trained herdmen which hold tent canvas or hides
from tent poles, giving them very effective cover from arrows
(ballistic cloth). Others might hold huge two-handed shields of
the Pavis type. This gives the Morocanth small fortresses, inviting the
Impalas to dash through the gaps. As soon as this happens, Martial artists
with high Mobility cast upon them dash forth and simply try jumping
kicks or shoulder rams against the fragile mounts. Once a single attack
connects, the impala and/or its rider will likely be disabled and lie
on the ground. A trample with Ironclawed hooves is a terrible thing.
The Morocanth are aware of the danger their mounted foes pose, so they
have learned to use prairie hound colonies for their camp sites. The
burrows of these will take as heavy losses from charging cavalry as would
concentrated missile fire. Bisons and rhinos might be less prone to
breaking legs, but they are also slower and less missile oriented. A
high jumping kick by a 110 kg morocanth will unseat any rider, and most
Praxians aren't worth much off their mounts. High llamas excepted,
but their beasts have little armoured legs.
I think that tripping with ropes or coil traps might work as well.
And one important fact easily ignored by non-archers is that decent
wood for shafts is extremely hard to come by in Prax. Each shot fired
and not recovered (on a miss 80% likely to have disappeared, on a hit
50% likely to be broken off) is the equivalent of loss of 5 hours of
work, including preparations (glue, string-making) and getting the
raw material. IMO the favourite spirit spell for Praxian archers
is Detect Arrows or Detect <Substance used in arrow>. There is only
so much fun to be had by hailing the enemy with arrows if you have
no chance to recover them. And any rider who carries more than say
two dozen arrows on the back of his mount will have serious problems
with encumberance and the noise the clattering arrows make.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: entekos/molanni
Message-ID: <01HGK27V5...@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 31 Aug 94 05:28:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5973
- The Blue Wizard responds to my assorted Entekos and Molanni
speculations.
Since I haven't seen anything other than GRAY on Entekos, I'm probably
not in a position to comment with any certainty on the nature of the ur-
Entekos. I would accept the following as true: she is Pelorian, not
Dara Happan, in origin and is associated therefore with the ancient
earth cults; she is linked by Plentonius with a host of air related
titles (I concede that it is unlikely for her to transmute herself); she
is the Mother of Moons.
Is Entekos a Green Age or Golden Age entity? Given the general Dara
Happan feeling towards goddesses and the patriarchal tendencies of the
Golden Age myths, I would call her a Green Age entity. If this is the
case, does she exist before Aether exists? If she does, she can't be
an entity of air. If after, then she can certainly be an 'air' figure.
Another possibility: is she either the true child of Aether/Gata OR the
twin of Umath? The idea of a twin appeals because it suggests the later
Orlanth/Red Goddess dichotomy. (And while I'm on that train of thought,
is the Red Goddess perhaps the reincarnation of Entekos?)
In regards to the Moon rune, we draw most of our evidence for the rune's
source from the writeup of Annilla in Troll Gods where there are
darkness and water connections. It seems to me that the rune may
equally have an origin in the mix of light and earth (afterall, we have
Moon Rocks, not Moon Water). Yes, I know the earth rune is square not
round, but the earth has dark tendencies that I think fit well. Thus,
Entekos might be the child created in the first union of earth and sky,
rose up to her place, and was then torn down by Umath, though she left
a calm space where her moon had been.
Regarding Molanni--I think she is Mistress Calm in Prax (Brastalos is
always associated with the water gods, produces waterspouts, etc.). As
for the dates, 5 years would not be enough for Plentonius to take note,
unless the battle of Argentium Thri'ile was also a heroquest which
altered the hero plane and Plentonius found he had to include a mention
of her. I concede this as unlikely, but I would ask whether the
beastriders might not have reached Dara Happa prior to the battle as
mercenaries in the employ of the Theyalans who had been around since the
1st century reawakening old spirits.
- Starting up another line of heresy
While I was working out my thoughts on the flood myths yesterday, I got
to thinking about what Plentonius was doing. Since the Dara Happan
empire had just reemerged, I would guess that he was trying to tie up
lots of loose ends to get a comprehensive Dara Happan mythos. But if
the tripolis had a unified mythos already, why would this be needed?
So...my thought is that the tripolis did not have a unified mythos, that
each city and its surrounding area had its own unique mythos that
Plentonius merged together. Yelm, therefore, is a manufactured deity!
The true Dara Happan sun gods are Murharzarm in the north (probably from
Yuthuppa and brought from the city that won--hence the mythic city of
Yuthubars); Antirius in the central region (though many of his myths
suggest a southern Pelorian origin, as do the later Sun Dome temples);
and Shargash (or the earlier name Nemarthshar) in the south. Other
areas sun gods were ignored or suppressed because they refused to join
the 'empire', including Nivorah (possibly Kargzant) and the Theyalan
lands (Elmal). Each of these gods faces a similar series of myths--the
flood, the fall of the sun, etc. But when Plentonius puts them
together, he rearranges them so that each important city's deities have
a place and aren't forgotten. (After all, if he leaves out Antirius,
Raibanth will leave the empire. Similar for Shargash at Alkoth.)
Enough Nysalor riddles for the day.
--Harald
---------------------
From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: morokanth tactics
Message-ID: <_1346_Wed_Aug_31_12:09:39_1...@bnr.ca>
Date: 31 Aug 94 08:09:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5974
Arg...@aol.com in X-RQ-ID: 5954. Morokanth tactical inferiority
against missile-toting mounted enemies
My guess would be that the morokanth tend to keep away from the most
open areas of the plains and instead try to stick to rough rocky ground
and other places where the mounted nomads can't go so effectively. This
would also be the territory where the herd-men may have a competitive
advantage as foragers.
I think you are right that when confronted by mounted enemies, the
morokanth go to ground. Sheltering behind pavis-shields sounds sensible,
I'll add that to their repertoire.
I had a party chasing a bunch of morokanth slavers, once. The morokanth
had a couple cross-bows and some thrown weapons, but these were pretty
ineffective. What really did the party in was the spirit spells. A
couple volleys of Demoralize and half the party was in uncontrolled
flight, the rest of the party chose to flee with their comrades rather
than face the morokanth at close quarters.
When they caught up again, the morokanth had taken up a good defensive
position where the party would have to dismount to reach them. No-one
wanted to fight morokanth hand-to-hand so they negotiated a solution
instead.
---------------------
From: phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Lunar Visibility
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 31 Aug 94 18:16:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5976
In-Reply-To: <940827071...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
>No disrespect to your (or any other) campaign, but I think the modern
>consensus is for a red moon visible practically everywhere in Glorantha,
>visibly going through its phases both inside and outside the Glowline.
No problem with that. I used my version partly because the imagery of
this swollen bloted red thing crereping into Orlanth's place in the sky
fitted the way I wanted the players to think of it, and partly because a
long time ago I made a descision (for a different campaign) and now I'm
stuck with the 'wrong' image. I know I've been Gregged. but should have
said so in the first mailing.
---------------------
From: phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Peter Metcalf Writes
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 31 Aug 94 18:17:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5977
In-Reply-To: <940828071...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
"The tales of Voria are contradictory. In the prosopaedia GoG, she is
referred to as the daughter of Yelm and Ernalda whereas in KoS, she is
referred to the daughter of Orlanth and Ernalda."
Yes. She is both. She is neither. Depends who you ask.
Voria is the Earth's bounty in the spring time. Therefore her father is
the Earth's husband. In Sartar the father is Orlnath. In Darra Happa it's
Yelm. In other places she'll be the daugther of all the other husbands.
Gloranthan mythological truthes are very subjective. Surely everyone
knows this.
---------------------
From: phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: --Martin ("not Paul Reilly or Finula McCaul") Crim writes
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 31 Aug 94 18:17:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5978
In-Reply-To: <940829071...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
> In 1988, TSR (used to stand for Tactical Studies Rules, now
>stands for nothing in particular)
Its either Tough Shit Readers or They Sue Regularly. Perhaps I shouln't
have said that.
>put out the Bullwinkle and Rocky tm Roleplaying Party Game. It came
with >hand-puppets, two
>dimensional rotating randomizers, and other neat stuff. I'd be
>interested to know if anyone has actually PLAYED this game.
I bought a copy for And...@aslan.demon.co.uk, but don't know if he played
it. He was so taken with the idea that he moved house very soon after.
---------------------
From: lan...@cougar.multiline.com.au (Bernard Langham)
Subject: Erm...(awkward shuffle)
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9409010...@cougar.multiline.com.au>
Date: 1 Sep 94 03:11:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5979
>From: dav...@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
>Subject: Toon-Quest
>
> I know that at least one game of Toon-Quest has been played over
>here, though not as based on particular cartoons as the suggestions made,
>and also with a more adult flavour. But it was called Toon-Quest.
> Characters included the expected ducks and hobbits, a baboon who
>fought with a staff and rode on a sylph that appeared as a small pink cloud
>(people unfamiliar with the japanese TV series Monkey will not understand
KING MONKEY, GREAT SAGE, EQUAL OF HEAVEN
Adventurer's Name: Wu Ch'eng En Player's Name: B.Langham
Species: Baboon Homeland/Clan: Hender's Ruins
Culture: Hsunchen (originally) Religion: Daka Fal Lay, Orlanth Initiate
STR 23 CON 16 SIZ 7 6/6
INT 13 POW 18 DEX 13 APP 8 (hairy) 6/5 7/7 6/5
9/6
2H Quarterstaff (1d8+2+1d4) 80% SR 4 Parry 60% AP 15 6/6 6/6
Bite (1d8+1d4) 65%
Sling (1d8+1d2) 55% Range 80m
Climb 95% Dodge 40% Jump 95% Speak Beastspeach 70% Speak Tradetalk 40%
Baboon Lore 85% Track 50% Hide 65% Sneak 50%
Spirit Magic: Healing 2
Magic items: "Summon small sylph" matrix (reusable) in Iron Circlet
Sylph: "Cloud" INT 5 POW 21 pick up/drop enemies (STR vs STR or 2d6
falling damage); carry 1 man-sized or smaller being (up to size 20)
Background: Wu Ch'eng En started out life as a slave of the Sazdorf
Trolls, adventured for a while on the plains of Prax, and ended up
(believe it or not) falling through a dimensional portal in Sog's Ruins
(or was it Ex?) which led to the Referee's laboriously written-up
campaign-world of Lhankmar. Sadly, Lhankmar aint Glorantha, so after a
few sessions the Toon-quest party's interest started to wander, and the
game foundered.
I'm not sure where the hobbits came into it, though. David?
>From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
>[Thanatar Cult Writeup]
>I am willing to share these with anyone who is interested. They are
>rather long so I am reluctant to toss them on the Daily (35k for
>Vivamort 80k for Thanatar). If there is interest then I will send them
>to individuals or to the Digest.
Me please!
Cheers, beers, steers,
~Barney
--
"Father, Ruler, King, Computer." Germain Greer, _The Female Eunuch_, p. 94
Bernard Langham . lan...@cougar.multiline.com.au . Perth, Western Australia
---------------------
From: carl...@wdni.com (Carlson, Pam)
Subject: Morokanth menace
Message-ID: <2E64...@emssmtp.msm.weyer.com>
Date: 31 Aug 94 19:50:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5980
>From: Arg...@aol.com
>Re: Morokanth tactical inferiority against missile-toting mounted
>enemies
In David Dunham's "Grazers Tour Prax" campaign, our bow-toting pyromaniacs
often
wanted to take on small groups of Morokanth, in order to rescue herdmen -
they felt that
humans being herded around by ANIMALS was intolerable. We too speculated
that our bows
and mobility would give us a great advantage. However, we had found
ourselves to be terribly vulnerable
to befuddle spells, and even the remotest possibility of being captured by
Morokanth and turned into herdmen was
enough to deter us. We figured the Morokanth must have some unknown special
abilities, if the other Praxians
(who also had our advantages) hadn't already wiped them out.
So we swallowed our indignation, left the Morokanth alone, and in true
Grazer style, went in search of
more profitable battles. (We never did figure out what we'd do with
herdmen, anyway. Selling them would seem to defeat
the purpose of rescuing them, and they were too stupid even to become
dirt-diggers.)
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Horse devolution
Message-ID: <940831195...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 31 Aug 94 09:58:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5981
I think the devolution of the horse can be found in King of Sartar, in the
Grazer stories.
Basically, imagine a clawed, winged, feathered centaur. That is the
original "horse".
--
Bryan Maloney
A reasonable man adapts himself to his surroundings,
an unreasonable man expects the world to conform to his opinions.
Therefore, all progress is due to unreasonable men.
--Shaw
---------------------
From: 10027...@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Erratum
Message-ID: <940831203113_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 31 Aug 94 20:31:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5983
Where I wrote:
> As Plentonius was compiling and inventing *most* of the
> material in the Glorious ReAscent...
please read:
> As Plentonius was compiling and NOT inventing *most* of
> the material in the Glorious ReAscent...
without which correction my thesis makes no sense. Sorry to interrupt your
reading pleasure.
====
Nick
====
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: Dev...@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 31 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940831170...@aol.com>
Date: 31 Aug 94 21:09:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5984
Devin here:
Thanks to all who presented their take on the Flood. I still consider it
highly derivative...but understand it a bit better in any event.
Pam asks:
">In the Godtime there'd have been lions, too, but they're
>gone. All that is left are humans, morocanth, and hyenas.
Are there any aerial predators, like griffins or really big raptors?"
There seem to be condors and larger king condors, although I don't know how
far from Vultures Country and the Spires they range. Also, vrok hawks are
probably efficient predators viz a viz the smaller game.
I also imagine that towards the northern parts of Prax, trollkin become
something of a predatory force, as do giant insects that have wandered into
the Plains from Dagori Inkarth.
Regards,
Devin Cutler
dev...@aol.com
---------------------
From: jo...@hyphen.com (Jon Green)
Subject: Hawking up
Message-ID: <3630.94...@diss.hyphen.com>
Date: 1 Sep 94 00:01:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5985
I appealed several weeks ago for any information relating to the link
between Yelmalio, Vrimak and Hawk Mother. No replies, fair enough.
I've now a mini-myth to explain what happened (and also a sub-scenario
/ mundane HQ relating to it) - if anyone's interested, email me
directly and I'll forward it. I'll summarise to the Daily after/if I
get feedback - I haven't enough background materials to be certain I'm
not stepping on other myths.
What I'm after now is this: my references for species of Hawk in
Glorantha are sketchy - RQ2 & 3 rules and the Bestiary. Has anyone
done anything in more detail? One of my PCs (a Yelmalian) is
developing a rather strong link with Hawk Mother and Her children, and
may just end up starting the Hero Path to Hawk Mother. Also, if there
are cult writeups anywhere for Vrimak and/or Hawk Mother I'd love to
read them. Thanks!
---------------------
From: david_baur@cl_63smtp_gw.chinalake.navy.mil (David Baur)
Subject: Parry, Repost, I surrender.
Message-ID: <9409010045.AA28246@Sun.COM>
Date: 31 Aug 94 09:33:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5986
Parry, Repost, I surrender. 8/31/94 5:29
PM
Rolling the dice to determine which Dave I am for this posting (clunk thunk
clatter clunk smash pad pad). Rats!! I'm still Dave Baur.
David Dunham
============
In posting 5912, I Quote:
> I've always considered myself the Source of the David rune.
> 1. Gods of Glorantha is the source of information on rune Sources, > and I
am the only David mentioned therein.
> 2. Despite misidentification by an owner of the Obnoxious Pedant > rune, I
possess the David rune, not the debased form, the Dave
> rune.
Does this mean that you hold the David rune and an infinity rune as you are
the originator? (Just Kidding). This must mean I am a derivative Dave.
We'll worry about this later (I hope not).
Ian Gorlick & Cult Write-ups (while waiting for LoT)
========================================
Please include me on your mailing list for your cult descriptions.
Thank you
Alison Place & Disease
=================
Alison,
In your RQ Daily posting (5909), I believe you missed the thrust of my
posting and I think it was misinterpreted. I was actually saying that I have
not really thought about it and that I would like to be copied in on any
other thoughts as well (because it seemed interesting.
The reason I had assumed (stupid me) "too small to even be seen with a 1
POW" is for the following reasons:
1. Most things in RQ are spiritish in nature.
2. Disease spirits only have the POW attribute, not SIZ or CON (or even
APP, the disgusting little beasties). This means that they can only be
"large" or "small" in POW (or am I wrong in this).
3. Broos can cause disease by striking you with their incredibly foul
covered weapons.
3a. This foul covered weapon does not necessarily cast a cause disease
divine spell when it draws blood.
3b. This foul covered weapon does not necessarily have a disease spirit
bound to it. If the weapon did, it would have a one shot condition releasing
the spirit into the victim's body, but then it would not cause disease on the
next person as they do do.
3c. This goes along with RQ3's Book4 (Creature Book), p11 on Broos, where
in Issaries print it talks about Disease. (I Quote) Disease: Anyone wounded
by a disease-carrying broo is exposed to that broo's disease(s).
3d. I follow this out of book 1 (Players Book) pp81-82 where it covers
diseases. First paragraph makes a distinction between Broos and Harpies
carrying illnesses and wicked Shaman spreading diseases with disease spirits.
It then says that "Natural disease exists as strongly as in our own world."
4. If the weapon had a spirit large enough to see, then a Shaman (or
someone with second sight) would recognize immediately which weapons to avoid
at most costs. The fact that they don't do this does not mean that this
doesn't happen, only either no one has thought on it or previously cared.
This is why I believe the spirit is extremely small compared to the person
with the Second Sight.
We play that the "normal" (?) Disease spirits do as you say you said,
but we also play that the "Normal" disease is contracted when the player
fails the series of CON rolls for the infected character. I don't think this
is a modification of any RQ rules that I have or know about as you ask. As
far as spirit combat, well, we play with visible effect, after all, spirits
have to be visible to start their attack. We play that a person undergoing
spirit attack usually seems to have a "far away" look about them. The
character actually sees a contest of wills in a strangling match or
equivalent fight scene (Group preference).
I guess my viewpoint really reflects my Storm Khan's typical belief in
where all diseases come from (Broos!!!!!!! and CHAOS!! and Broos!!!!). This
still wasn't too satisfying to me as it obviously wasn't to you neither. Please
don't be surprised if I also like John Strauss' posting (5671) even though I
don't feel that it meets all of the conditions, it would be a good reason to
explain contagion (at least from my character's point of view). As to
spending time at healers or shaman's huts (some actually heal diseases
herbally), you have to ask others in my group for their stories.
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Vinga; Ralios trade; Hyena; Those Nasty Arrows
Message-ID: <1994090101...@radiomail.net>
Date: 1 Sep 94 01:00:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5987
Lots of discussion on Vinga, I see.
I agree with Lewis (not Jamie) that Vinga is a Jill of All Trades and a
master of none -- that was the gist of the myth I came up with.
>I speculate that Vinga's runes should be Mobility, Wind and Earth.
I seem to be outnumbered on this -- I use just Mobility and Air. But if
Greg treats her as an Orlanth subcult, does the Earth rune give her
anything? She shouldn't need to have the Earth rune to be able to deal with
snakes, frex.
As for Bryan's thought that she is Orlanth's sister, could be. I prefer her
being his daughter from a one-night stand, as always happens with mythic
heroes, but that hero could be Umath, I suppose.
I treat Vinga as a subcult as described by Alex (though I don't forget that
_I_ came up with the Wind Run spell :-). Except that I don't see
Vinga-specific temples (they do have their own separate shrine building in
the rambling Orlanth temple complex in Kilwin).
In my East Ralios, the canoe is one of the prime transports for trade (and
one reason that trade is the province of Doskior, the River God, not
Issaries, the Talking God). I'm not sure they have mules in the East Wilds
(they probably do in Vesmonstran, and certainly in Safelster).
Pam asks
>Do hyaenas have get respect from humans due to their association with the
>Trickster?
Since when do humans respect Tricksters?
Martin wonders
>how have the Morokanth managed to survive on the
>plain(e)s of Prax? Even the Bison and High Llama riders have
>some members with missile weapons. Against Zebra, Sable, or
>Impala riders, the Morokanth would seem to be so much toast. The
>mounted foes can keep their distance and prevent the Morokanth
>from escaping, meanwhile pincushioning our tapir-like friends.
That's what I've been whining about in the past; I've never gotten a really
good answer. Shields might work, but somehow seem very un-Morokanth (you've
got to lug a shield with you everywhere you go in case you get raided?).
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 31 Aug 1994
Message-ID: <940831184...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 31 Aug 94 06:44:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5975
Peter M.
>Umath appears to be born in Umathela.
Umath is in fact NOT born in Umathela. Umathela got its name
because it was invaded by beings from the North (presumably including
Umath, though the most famous invader is actually Qualyorn a.k.a.
Moorgark) and thus colonized and thus became like a little alcove of
Genertela inside Pamaltela's borders.
>I can't really say whether Mistress Calm is actually Brastalos or
>Molanni. Can someone clarify this for me?
It is my belief that Mistress Calm is _not_ Brastalos.
Molanni seems much likelier to me. Brastalos is the eye of the storm,
not calmness per se. Also, Molanni would seem to be a
desirable/useful deity for the Praxians, especially seeing as the
other main air gods of the region are Storm Bull and Gagarth, both of
which are less than benign and whip up hurtful sandstorms.
>Isn't the moon always full within the Glowline?
Surely the folks within the Empire have some way of seeing
their goddess's phases. Maybe it takes magical vision.
Martin Crim:
>Question: how have the Morokanth managed to survive on the
>plain(e)s of Prax? Even the Bison and High Llama riders have
>some members with missile weapons.
This is a perfectly plausible question that I've heard raised
elsewhere. I'll try to deal with it decisively in the following
essay.
In fact, two questions have been raised here. I'll deal with
the missile weapon question first. Missiles were _not_ the major arms
of most military forces until the late 17th century. Till then, when
muskets took over, missiles were only an adjunct to the main force
(even after, bayonets and sabers were still useful for almost two
centuries). A few armies (the pre-Mogul hindus, the Mongols,
Cromwell's New Model Army) were primarily missile-armed, but even for
them, the primary weapon was the impact of the lance, pike, or
another melee weapon. The Impala folk, the best missile-users of the
plains, can harass you to the point of madness, but their ineptness
at melee means they can rarely actually _win_ a decisive victory,
just pinprick the enemy until he finally gives up and leaves in
disgust.
That aside, the Morocanth still have a serious tactical
problem. First off, they're dismounted. A morocanth vs. a Sable Rider
is a pretty unequal battle. The Sable kicks and butts, while the
rider throws javelins or uses a spear and it's not a pretty sight.
High Llamas and Bisons are even more of a mismatch. And, of course,
while I've denigrated missile weapons above, it's actually pretty
important to have _some_ missiles within your tactical mix. Finally,
the Morocanth are slower than animal cavalry; the beast riders can
disengage almost at will.
So how do the Morocanth survive? As co-author of Praxpack,
I've done some thinking on this. And here are my answers.
ONE) the Morocanth are less-raided than the other tribes --
no one wants _their_ herds. Herd men are poor milk-givers, breed
slowly, and worse of all slow down your herd to a comparative crawl.
Not only that, but they're rather gruesome to eat, and most Praxians
are picky enough to refrain from eating herd man unless faced with
starvation. Not only that, but you can't be sure you're eating a
_real_ herd man. Everyone knows that the Morocanth use dark magics to
transform people into animals. So the main purpose in raiding the
Morocanth is to harass and kill Morocanth (a praiseworthy endeavor,
but hardly profitable) or to re-capture herd beasts from _other_
tribes that the Morocanth have captured in the past. All in all,
they're the least-economical tribe in the plains to raid. This
ecological edge should never be dismissed.
TWO) the Morocanth have some advantages over the nomads --
one is that they're _not_ mounted. The Morocanth are experts at
stealth and concealment, skills practically unusable by nomads. (In
essence, where a nomad has a Ride of 90%, a Morocanth would have a
Hide of 90%.) A typical Morocanth attack consists of a leap from
ambush, quick hamstringing of steeds, and then slaughter of the
dismounted riders. They are experts at concealment -- lurking under a
thin layer of sand, inside a hollowed-out bush, etc. The Morocanth
are, of course, detested for this "unfair" method of warfare, and
most especially for their tactics, which are aimed directly at
knocking down the mounts first. Other nomads rarely aim at your
riding beast, if only because they'd like to capture it. But the
Morocanth -- pfui!
THREE) their herds can go places that hoofed ungulates cannot
handle. Morocanth regularly set up shop deep within marshes that herd
beasts would get bogged-down in, or atop steep plateaus that they
(and herd-men) can climb, but that no four-footed animal could
navigate (maybe a mountain goat could, but the Praxian ungulates are
plains beasts). Herd men can climb, and they can negotiate bogs, and
they are small enough to live in a cave. They can do all sorts of
things that ungulates can't, and the Morocanth take full advantage.
It is rare for a party of nomads to even be able to _find_ a
Morocanth camp, let alone raid it. Even when the Morocanth take over
an oasis, their herd men are safer than a normal tribe's -- the
Morocanth simply put their "beasts" inside the adobe huts. Since most
huts have roof-entries, this isn't available to the nomads, only the
Morocanth.
FOUR) Herd men, while primarily vegetarian, can also eat
grubs, rodents, dig up roots, climb trees to get the fruit or
sleeping bats at the top, and so forth, so are more adaptable than
Sables & co. Also, herd men eat and drink a lot less than ungulates,
so they can survive sieges or harsh environments. (When nomads set
"siege" to a Morocanth base, usually their own beasts give out before
the Morocanth's). In addition, herd men, like humans, have a lot of
stamina. (Apaches used to capture wild horses by running them down on
foot-- the horses were fast, but couldn't keep going forever, so as
long as the apache brave kept trotting and trotting and ... it took
about 3 days to wear down the horse to the point you could catch it.)
Thus, the Morocanth, when on the move, can travel both day and night,
wearing down their "beasts" in a way that would be unendurable for
Impalas or High Llamas. Hence, on a forced march, they can cover
about the same distance as the other tribes (but not tactically, of
course). The only real disadvantage of the herd men physiologically
is that they need a steady supply of water, whereas most of the
Praxian ungulates can go without for a couple of days at a time. But
at least when water is available, the herd men don't need as much.
Another advantage of the herd men is that they're smarter and more
cooperative than other herd beasts. When herd men are attacked by
coyotes or hyenas, they respond by fighting back as a group -- both
males and females wield sticks as clubs, throw rocks, use clubs, etc.
The result is that herd men suffer much less from predators than
other herd beasts. Herd men also live much longer than ungulates, and
have a much longer breeding period. All these factors partially make
up for their general inferiority as a herd beast. _However_ these
herd man advantages are generally only useful if you keep them in a
large band -- so do not apply to captured specimens.
FIVE) the Morocanth are fearsome in melee. They are the most
heavily-armored warriors of Prax, with 4-point natural skin, plus
whatever armor they cobble together (normally comparable to other
Praxians' armor -- minimum of 2-point leather over vitals). In
addition, they are large and strong, and know martial arts. In
hand-to-hand combat, only the Agimori can stand up to a Morocanth.
Their spells are, of course, designed to maximize their combat power
(Protection, Clawsharp, Mobility). In melee combat, an experienced
Morocanth that gets the drop on any of the Praxian animals (with the
possible exception of a rhino) can cripple or kill it in one round,
then cripple or kill the rider in another round. The problem for the
Morocanth is "getting the drop".
SIX) the Morocanth are nocturnal. While they don't have
Darksense, their night vision is far superior to any humans. Most
fights with the Morocanth take place at night, when most of the
nomads' advantages are canceled or at least lessened. Certainly their
vaunted missile fire is next to worthless. During the day they hide
in their nearly-inaccessible lairs. But the night is hunting time.
IN SUMMARY: the Morocanth don't fight or behave like the
other nomads. They don't mass together in bands to engage in raids,
nor do they camp in large open areas with good visibility, stationing
guards around their vulnerable herds. Instead, when you're in
Morocanth country, small bands of Morocanth burst out of the night to
kill riding beasts or capture one single guard and carry him off to
their dark dens. When you finally find the Morocanth den it might be
a cliff-dwelling where your own animals can't climb, so you have to
clamber up sans beasts while herd men roll boulders down. Or you must
lead your beasts wading through muck, trying to find the Morocanth
lair in the bog.
These things don't mean that the Morocanth are immune to the
nomads nor that they aren't sometimes killed in droves. Obviously if
you can catch a Morocanth in the open during daylight, he's easy
meat. But they _do_ have advantages over the nomads, and they're
smart enough to use 'em. In a way, the Morocanth are to the nomads as
the nomads are to the Sartarite or Lunar warriors -- irksome
skirmishers, cowards who won't stand up to a fair fight.
If the Morocanth behaved like other nomads, they'd be extinct
by now. Their herds and their biology render them unfit for such a
course of action. This, of course, exacerbates the differences
between them and the other nomads and increasingly sets them apart.
But that's a small price to pay for survival in the Wastes.
Pam Carlson, asking about Praxian predators:
>Are there any aerial predators, like griffins or really big raptors?
Only within a hundred miles or so of the Rockwoods or Plateau
of Statues, or River of Cradles cliffs, or other places where they
could safely nest. The vast bulk of the Wastes are safe from such. We
know that there are enormous condors in the River of Cradles, but
I've not heard of giant eagles. Griffins make a hell of a lot of
sense, from the Rockwoods. I suspect giant eagles in the Shan Shan
side of the Wastes, since the so-called "Eagle Hsunchen" (i.e., wind
children) are known there, so presumably there's eagles, too. Even
ordinary eagles would be able to take down an impala or sable calf.
Hyenas: Yes, I know they're not canids. Hyaenidae. Placed "between"
dogs and cats, but they're not so much a missing link as Something
Else Entirely.
>Do hyaenas have get respect from humans due to their association
>with the Trickster?
I can't help but think this is a kind of non sequitur, Pam.
"Respect"? because of a relationship with TRICKSTER?!??!
I think that the Praxians have special stories about all the
animals of the plains: jackrabbits, hawks, ravens, etc. Hyenas, as
especially-important, have more major stories, and may be likelier to
be a shaman's totem than, say, a pack rat.
Known Animals of the Central Wastes
Wild or feral specimens (who can tell?) of the following:
high llamas, impalas, bison, rhinos, sables, ostriches.
Small zebras. Jackrabbits. Hyenas.
Hawks (I like to think of them as Harris Hawks, which are
cool, because they're the only hawks that hunt cooperative -- in
packs. Probably other hawks known here, too.)
Ground-nesting desert ravens. Thieving bastards.
Pack rats.
Desert foxes.
Some kind of canid -- either wild dogs or jackals or coyotes.
After all, the Praxians have dogs. I vote for coyotes and think that
the Praxian hounds are often coydogs.
I DON'T think there's any wild herd men, bolo lizards, or large
zebras.
---------------------
X-RQ-ID: Extro
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---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: The Blue Wizard ponders...
Message-ID: <01HGM1V8X...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 2 Sep 94 09:19:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5988
Harald replies
> Since I haven't seen anything other than GRAY on Entekos, I'm probably
> not in a position to comment with any certainty on the nature of the ur-
> Entekos. I would accept the following as true: she is Pelorian, not
> Dara Happan, in origin and is associated therefore with the ancient
> earth cults; she is linked by Plentonius with a host of air related
> titles (I concede that it is unlikely for her to transmute herself); she
> is the Mother of Moons.
Agreed in total. Given the title of the pre lunar moon tales 'Entekosiad', I
would say she is mainly Pelandran.
> Is Entekos a Green Age or Golden Age entity? Given the general Dara
> Happan feeling towards goddesses and the patriarchal tendencies of the
> Golden Age myths, I would call her a Green Age entity. If this is the
> case, does she exist before Aether exists? If she does, she can't be
> an entity of air. If after, then she can certainly be an 'air' figure.
I think I see a basic assumption here that I in any case consider wrong.
Pletonius says that the Gods Wall is of the 100 gods and goddesses bowing down
before Yelm. This dates to 6250 YS. Ask yourself the following:
1) Do you really believe Pletonius's assertion that Yelm was so farsighted to
predict gods that did not exist?
2) Given the identity of Gods Wall IV-1, what is the earliest possible date
for its construction?
3) Would Ezelveztay really take the shape of a fire rune in the Gods Wall. (I
am refering to the picture on page 1).
4) Is Murharzarm really a spitting image of his father? (compare cover to
picture on page 1).
This should lead you into what I consider the right solution without any God
Learning.
> Thus,
> Entekos might be the child created in the first union of earth and sky,
> rose up to her place, and was then torn down by Umath, though she left
> a calm space where her moon had been.
This is an interesting idea. It would account for the hatred that exists
between Orlanth and Yelm.
> I concede this as unlikely, but I would ask whether the
> beastriders might not have reached Dara Happa prior to the battle as
> mercenaries in the employ of the Theyalans who had been around since the
> 1st century reawakening old spirits.
This is plausible as the First Council reached into Prax in 62 ST (according to
Humakt in CoP). I still have no idea what this was about (despite 14 years of
waiting).
> So...my thought is that the tripolis did not have a unified mythos, that
> each city and its surrounding area had its own unique mythos that
> Plentonius merged together.
True, the Prince of the Ten tests had to acknowledge Eusibus's city as one of
the seven cities of Anaxial in the GRAY.
> Yelm, therefore, is a manufactured deity!
I disagree. Pletonius may have fudged things a little but he was not a God
Learner.
> The true Dara Happan sun gods are Murharzarm in the north (probably from
> Yuthuppa and brought from the city that won--hence the mythic city of
> Yuthubars);
Actually Buserian is the Solar God of Yuthuppa.
> Antirius in the central region (though many of his myths
> suggest a southern Pelorian origin, as do the later Sun Dome temples);
IMO this is Murharzarm.
> and Shargash (or the earlier name Nemarthshar) in the south.
For Alkoth. IMO these are the three men created in the tale of the making of
men in the GRAY. Gievn Solar bias it is no wonder the women aren't named.
The rest of your speculation is interesting. I won't comment further to avoid
'polluting an otherwise pure well' (quoting Greg when I asked him something),
but keep up the good work.
_Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: mcar...@fit.qut.edu.au (Robert McArthur)
Subject: toilets and fundamental wastes
Message-ID: <1994090109...@ocean.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 2 Sep 94 05:21:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5989
What struck me the other day thinking about Glorantha, is that how close is
it to middle/last-middle age earth? For example, sewage and cleanliness
used to be a large problem in Europe (and still in in many places in the
world where large numbers of people get together). How about in the larger
populations of Genertela - even Boldhome or Jonstown are going to have a lot
if its like earth.
My reason for thinking it is what sort of ambiance do we get walking into
a Sartarite city? In Europe one of the first things we moderns dudes would
notice is the stench! In Glorantha, do having cults of healing and cults of
disease mean that, where healing is dominant, there is sanitation? Do
healers connect sanitation and disease? *Is* there any connection in
Glorantha between the two? Are there 'germs' or are people visited by a
minor but pesky disease spirit for a while?
Any thoughts on the state of toilets and trash?
Robert
---------------------
From: ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Nasty cults and winged critters
Message-ID: <940901114...@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 1 Sep 94 15:40:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5990
Nils Weinander writing
Add me to the interest list for Ian Gorlick's writeup of the
nasty cults.
_____
Sandy writes:
> I suspect giant eagles in the Shan Shan
> side of the Wastes, since the so-called "Eagle Hsunchen" (i.e., wind
> children) are known there, so presumably there's eagles, too.
Am I the only one to find Wind Children suspicious creatures? They
have feathered wings and are known as eagle hsunchen in Kralorela.
This would indicate bird/sky connections, but they are in fact air
related. This is weird.
/Nils W
---------------------
From: lfo...@gl.umbc.edu (Linwood Foster Direwolf)
Subject: Re: The revival of the net.plot.book
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9409010...@umbc8.umbc.edu>
Date: 1 Sep 94 10:01:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5991
Has the net.plot.book been posted yet?
Just thought I'd ask.
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Disease
Message-ID: <H.ea.KVb...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 1 Sep 94 15:23:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5992
David Baur mused about the size (POW) of Disease spirits.
IMO things contaminated with mundane diseases don't contain the
spirits before they have contaminated a host creature, but as
soon as they have, lots of no-POW disease spirits of the
appropriate type can enter the victim without any resistance
except its natural defenses.
These micro spirits go by the name of germs in certain circles.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: morocanth and aerial predators
Message-ID: <01HGLIH9I...@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 1 Sep 94 06:51:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5994
- Martin asks about morocanth defenses against missile fire.
One possibility, mentioned also by Sandy, is that the morocanth really
use darkness to great effect. They travel and herd by night when
missile fire is useless and then retreat to large encampments by day to
sleep and protect the herds. I picture them using the circular type of
defense used by wagon trains to fend off Indian raids in the American
West. Set up large mobile shields, darkwalls, flame retardant blankets
(i.e. with Extinguish matrices in place), and make maximum use of rough
ground, scrub brush, hills, etc. to keep raiders back. Then at night,
the morocanth hunters range out using their superior night vision to
track those who did raid them to steal their foes herds.
- Aerial hunters
Sandy mentioned most of the assorted animals. I definitely see a range
of hawks here: vrok hawk, sun hawk, etc. Of course, there are ravens
scavenging too. And what of the Thunderbird? Is that a special species
or just a spirit without any allies? I would think a nice grey bird (an
owl species perhaps) with heavy wings might be interesting here.
--Harald
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 01 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <940901174...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 1 Sep 94 05:41:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5995
Alex:
>Joerg and I can both claim to have cohabited, country-wise, with
>_Alces alces_
really? What country? I know there's none in Scotland or
mainland Germany.
>But _Cervus canadensis_ isn't _that_ much bigger, is it?
1) it's not universally agreed to be a separate species from
C. elaphus. One school of thought believes the two groups to be
subspecies. And yes, it's quite a lot bigger. Ian Gorlick summarizes
nicely: 450 kg for U.S./Canook version, 300 kg tops for European
midget variety.
Ian G. also points out that moose cause Big Trouble up in canada,
eating trailer-trucks and the like. Perhaps in the U.S., where the
moose population must cohabit with a much denser human population,
the moose have learned to be more skittish around people.
Unless stimulated to further action by needling beyond endurance, I
plan to cease posting about the great Elk controversy.
Ian G.
> For those who think of burros as small, you should realize that the
>common burro is actually a dwarf variety of the wild ass. The wild
>ass masses in at almost 300kg, as big or bigger than the zebras.
But zebras are rather small equines, compared to the domestic
horse -- pony-sized -- 300 kg isn't that huge. Admittedly, even I
knew the onagers were lots larger than the feral burros of the
American southwest. But the small burros are more useful than big
ones -- they eat less, are easier to care for, cost less, and can
carry plenty. If you want a big pack animal, horses or oxen are
better bets than large asses.
Certainly small-time farmers in Tanisor would be better off
with burros than onagers.
Morocanth defenses:
A surprising number of people have come out in favor of
pavise-type shields. I can't believe the Morocanth use these in a
raid or mobile battle -- it would further hinder their
already-limited mobility. However, portable interlocking pavises
would be an excellent way to defend a small morocanth camp during
daylight hours -- sort of like a Hussite wagon fortress. Efficient
against arrows, and mounted enemies. If the enemies climb off their
steeds to attack you, you can make a sally.
---------------------
From: 10030...@compuserve.com (Staffan Tjernstrom)
Subject: Playing around with mundane magic - Rune Magic
Message-ID: <940901170733_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 1 Sep 94 17:07:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5996
By request of the other referee (sadly not on-line) of our joint G campaign, are
his extensions to the battle (spirit) magic rules....
Jon Tarry:
Variant RUNEQUEST Magic Rules
I have always been confused as to why in both 2nd and 3rd edition
Runequest, there exists a system for both Critical and Fumble
results for mundane skills, but not for Magic.
Given that Spirit/Battle Magic is tightly controlled by the
restraints placed upon the Spirit/the controls exercised by the
mundane 'Heroquest' associated with learning the spell. This may
go some way to explaining the discrepancy.
However, I enjoy a 'random' element asociated with spell use
(particularly as Spirit Magic is prevalent, and encouraged, in
my campaign!). The following rules are what myself, and my co-
referee came up with to achieve what we felt was a more
consistent approach to Magic and the Mundane Skill structure.
In line with skills, Spirit magic spells succeed AUTOMATICALLY
on a dice roll of 05 or less.
They also fail AUTOMATICALLY on a roll of 96 on more.
A roll of less than 20% of that required (a 'special' success),
will result in maximum effect occurring. For example, a 'special'
result while casting a Disruption spell will cause 3HP of damage
to the relevant location (assuming the target's POW has been
succesfully overcome in the usual way.)
A roll of less than 5% of that required (a 'critical' success),
again works AUTOMATICALLY. In addition a random beneficial effect
from the following Table occurs:
CRITICAL EFFECTS
Roll 1D10
1 Half Magic Point (MP) cost. Round up.
2 +25% to resistance roll. If none associated then No
effect.
3 Spell acts as if 5MP put behind it when cast. (ie need
6Pts of Countermagic to negate the spell.)
4 Double Range, OR Duration, OR Intensity. (Choose ONE)
5 Double effect.
6 Zero MP cost to cast.
7 Affect TWO targets for the cost of one spell.
8 Spell ignores Magical defenses. (eg Countermagic, Shield
Countermagic, Protection, Reflection, Absorption, Chaos
Feature.)
9 Next spell works AUTOMATICALLY. No need for POW vs POW.
10 At DM's discretion Spell acts as though Matrix Creation
had been cast as well. Care needs to be exercised with
this as it may create powerful matrices!
The converse situation involves a 'fumble' result on the dice
roll:
FUMBLE EFFECTS
Roll 1D10
1 Spell fails AUTOMATICALLY, no other effect (normal
MP cost.)
2 Next spell cast has minimum effect. DM's discretion.
3 Next spell cast, has HALF Range, OR Duration, OR
Intensity. (DM's choice).
4 -25% Resistance roll for next Attack spell. (either
Cast or Hit By.)
5 x2 MP Cost
6 Caster suffers the effects of a Befuddle spell.
7 x3 MP Cost
8 Spell Works, REVERSE on self, OR Hit nearest friend
9 Spell lost from Memory for 1D3 weeks!
10 x4 MP Cost
The above Tables are of course only Guidelines. Feel free
to make any amendments or ignore anything you feel is
inappropriate to your game.
Thanks go to Staffan Tjernstrom for help with development
of the above as well as to our regular players for their
help and comments. Any thoughts or comments on this subject
appreciated.
JONATHAN TARRY.
Now for my ha'penny's worth (ha'penny, roughly equivalent to a bolg).
Recovery of Rune (Divine) Magic:
Since I can't remeber who said what, I am going to ramble across the points I
remember...
Firstly, I do agree that the present 1 day to regain 1 point is difficult to
justify from a society viewpoint, though I concede that as a game mechanic it is
justifiable. I play that two priest-hours regains 1 point (ie two priests
praying for 1 hour gain back 1 point into the temple Truestone).
As an avid RQ2 Barbarian, I am very dubious about the whole 'give RQ3 Initiates
re-useable Divine Magic' schtick [sp?]. IMHO Rune Magic is a reward from the
Gods to their _devout_ followers for services rendered. Thus an Initiate would
gain a single use spell as a great reward (cf the gain from a mundane
HeroQuest]. Rune Lords also gain only one use spells, for the same reason,
though they have greater access, being more 'heroic'. Since the Rune Lord's job
is (at least in the majority of cases) to be the cult's strong man the POW cost
of this is to a great extent overcome by the amount of POW gain rolls they will
have. Hence I have no real arguments either way on the 'lower echelons'
recovery apart from - They Don't.
On the subject of the number of Lay/Initiates present when the priest tries to
regain - I like. However, bear in mind that not all Priests are Temple bound
(eg a wandering Issaries Goldentounge). I feel that it would be easier for the
Priest to regain a spell in Boldhome market during Sacred Time (ie automatic,
and all) than stuck in the middle of Pent with nothing but a set of two-week Lay
Baboon guides, but that it will still be _possible_, maybe with a price attached
(a great chance to have that mischievous ally start babbling about Genert
maybe).
Looking forward to the economy notes!
Harry Bushtill
Goldentounge
etc...
---------------------
From: cur...@netcom.com (Curtis Shenton)
Subject: Some ideas on Rune Magic
Message-ID: <1994090117...@netcom9.netcom.com>
Date: 1 Sep 94 03:06:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5997
I've been working on some ideas for my own nonRQ/nonGloranthan campaign
and have come up with something that would work pretty well for
Glorantha. It's sort of a variant Runepower system I suppose.
A worshipper sacrifices POW into a pool of Rune Power that they
can draw upon later. But the only spells they can cast are those they
have earned through various minihero quests. For example for an Orlanthi
to get Darkwalk they need to steal something from a Kygor Liter
worshipper. FOr a Humakt to get Beserk they might need to have fought a
foe or group of enemies that were more powerful then they or otherwise
been in some sort of combat where they expected to loose and die and yet
fought anyway. Not only would different religions have different quests
for the same spell but I assume that different temples would sometimes
have very specific quests you need to go on to get a spell. And some
spells you may just get access to because becoming an initiate of the
cult attunes you to some of the basics of the gods power. I suspect all
Orlanthi would be able to cast Cloud Call under this system for example.
Any comments or suggestions? Has someone already posted this
idea and I'm just recreating the wheel? :)
--
Curtis Shenton cur...@netcom.com internet & 4@3091 WWIVnet
Interested in the process of designing unique magic/psionic/etc power
systems in an rpg? The loc-l mailing list is set up for discussions on
this topic. Email me to find out how to sign up.
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 01 Sep 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <940901180...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 1 Sep 94 18:03:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5998
Martin asks (sensibly)
>how have the Morokanth managed to survive on the
>plain(e)s of Prax? Even the Bison and High Llama riders have
>some members with missile weapons. Against Zebra, Sable, or
We play the Morokanth as clever and "sneaky", after all they are darkness
creatures. It is true that they would lose in a "fair" stand up fight, so
we give them the following compensating advantages:
1. As the main nonhumans of Prax, they have learned to cooperate among
themselves better than most of the other Praxian tribes. Morokanth clans are
readier to help each other than, say, Sable clans are - when a Morokanth
Khan sends out the fire signal for help, his neighbors (maybe 50 km away!)
will come and help, without asking "What's in it for our clan" until AFTER
the crisis is resolved.
2. They have a superb sense of smell and are good at finding waterholes, etc.
While the animals of the other tribe are a great help in these matters, the
Morokanth are the all-Prax champions. They have a sense for when an underground
stream comes near the surface, for example. This gives them 'ecological'
advantages when competing with the other tribes.
3. They are better at night than humans are. This is one area in which the
mounts of the other Praxians aren't that much help - they often have poor night
vision as well. While this is not such an advantage on defense, it is very
useful on reprisal raids against other tribes, typically conducted at night.
4. They have gotten pretty good at intelligence, and tend to know when the
other tribes are massing against them. They then scatter and hide or,
sometimes, hole up in a strongpoint until the war fever blows over.
5. They like marshy ground and wetland plants, and go down near the coastal
flats, the Fever Trees, the Devil's Marsh, the Krjalki Bog, etc. They are
immune to several human diseases (Yellow fever equivalent?) that make such
places distinctly unhealthy for humans, and they like to eat some plants that
humans can't live on. In short, they have a different niche from Praxian
humans.
If a Morokanth group does get caught out on the flat by a Praxian clan, they
could well get wiped out if the animal riders want to do so. However, such
a clan would be under blood feud from the whole Morokanth nation, whose
memories are even longer than their noses...
---------------
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 01 Sep 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <940901181...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 1 Sep 94 18:12:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5999
Paul Reilly here. Sandy writes:
> Herd men... slow down your herd to a comparitive crawl.
Hmm. In a sprint, yes. I'm not sure about that in terms of miles
per day. Humans are awfully good long distance runners, and herd men
may be even better. In _New Scientist_ I saw an article comparing
efficiencies of land animals on long distance travel - humans beat all
others except kangaroos, who have special tissues that are quite elastic and
recover a lot of the energy from each bounce.
I think that herd men may be less gruesome to eat than Sandy apparently does,
also. Westerners disdain monkey, but many peoples happily hunt them
for food. People adjust.
Otherwise we look pretty much agreed. Sandy does bring up the endurance of
herd men later on.
Remember that herd men have been selectively bred, and probably are bigger,
have more stamina, and give more milk than their distant human cousins. After
all the Morokanth use captured Bison riders for breeding stock...
And as Sandy points out, the herd men can fight. Our Morokanth Khans keep
prize fighting bulls and when two Morokanth tribes meet there is often a
boxing match.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: 71163...@compuserve.com (Erich A. Schmidt)
Subject: Ping.
Message-ID: <940901181713_71...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 1 Sep 94 18:17:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6000
I am currently writing (well, rewriting actually) a tournament scenario
for RQ introduction for Dragon-Con '95. The rewriting bit is that
originally it was for my own RQ plane and I am currently changing it to a
Gloranthan melliu while in the process of changing states. The main
character is a wronged farmer who it seems would be a priest of Barntar.
So, as people are mulling over the status of Vinga's cult does anyone have
suggestions for Barntar? I figure that he should give Bless Crops,
Command Oxen, and Sanctify Brewing Kit or other appropriatly named spell.
(Summon Brruuupt?) Command Oxen would work on one ox, or a properly yoked
team. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Would the gentleman with the Vivamort/Thanatar cults (Ian?) please send me
a copy.
Herr Cheng, I will be asking for one of your Compendiums when I return to
my NY address.
It is so pleasurable to read Gibson with Vivaldi playing in the
background.
We've done enough with switching Peters and Davids, I think that we should
make our own Greg....
Erich A. Schmidt
---------------------
From: Akira...@aol.com
Subject: Resubscribe
Message-ID: <940901142...@aol.com>
Date: 1 Sep 94 18:22:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6001
SUBSCRIBE list akira...@aol.com
---------------------
From: phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Molani
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 1 Sep 94 19:54:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6002
In-Reply-To: <940901071...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
For the next issue of my fanzine I'm developing a Molani cult.
The central idea is that she is a wonderful noble self sacrificing
goddess who sacrificed her chastity to Yelm, her people's enemy, so that
Yelm and Orlanth would have something in common.
Naturally Yelm, being noble, recognises that she is a worthwhile member
of the Storm gods and takes her as his wife instead of his concuibine.
When her son is born Daga is a wonderful god, combining sun and clam air
to make a harvest god, a corn king if you like.
Orlanth, not being noble, is bitterly jeleous (if he hadn't been so
arrogant he could have been the corn king himself) and steals all of
Daga's fertility powers and gave them to Barntar and Heler, and finally
locks his nephew up in a box and uses him as a bogey man.
Naturally this isn't the way the story is traditionally told in Dragon
Pass. This is the Molani that the Lunar missionaries tell the people
about in captured lands.
Up to the foundation of this cult, about 100-200 years ago, as a means of
annoying the Orlanthi that the Lunars were competing with to the south, I
don't think that Molani would have been worshiped in any way. Originally
she's only a metaphor, but the nature of Glorantha is that metaphors
sometimes acheive a live of their own.
---------------------
From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Vinga, Bless Earth, Hyenas
Message-ID: <_7707_Thu_Sep__1_18:28:28_1...@bnr.ca>
Date: 1 Sep 94 14:28:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6003
THIS IS ALISON PLACE, NOT IAN GORLICK.
Vinga:
To Lewis Jardine (5943):
Thank you for the compliments on Cloak of Snakes. I was petrified
giving it, let me tell you!
Although I agree with most of what you write about Vinga, I would
picture her in a somewhat different light, of course. For instance, I
don't think that Vinga would be scared to marry if she met a man who
pleased her sufficiently. He would just have to take her as she is,
with a propensity for independence, self-reliance and doing what she
thinks fit for her.
I am not sure what you think intuition is. I consider it to be a
subconscious summation of cues that lead one to a sudden conclusion
without puzzling out the intermediate steps. It can be overwhelmingly
wrong, but it isn't connected with any ability to have offspring. Are
you picturing fertility as including a fertile mind, one that brims over
with ideas? If so, that is novel, and I shall have to think about it.
To Bryan Maloney (5953):
I don't know of any evidence that Vinga is Orlanth's daughter, and for
you to play her as his sister sounds great. When I was trying to come
up with an Orlanthi myth, I was using King of Sartar to give me ideas,
and there was Kallyr Starbrow, a follower of Vinga. I knew that Kallyr
tried the Lightbringer's Quest, which meant to me that Vinga had to be
closely related to Orlanth. There were three other references to Vinga,
all of them vague. This left me with a goddess who was undefined,
except that she was followed by women who wished for a warrior's life,
and therefore I tried a coming-of-age story about her. Now that I
have started thinking of her in this way, I probably shan't stop, but
unless someone else with more information than either of us can point to
something in print, neither of us is wrong. If you do have anything
more on her than that, or you have written stuff, I would very much like
an e-mail on it. Likewise to Lewis.
Bless Earth
To Bryan again:
Also, you play a more bitter Genertela than I do. I don't know where it
is written that crops in Genertela will fail without this spell. If it
is official, and not just the assumption of various subscribers that
Genert's death doomed the whole of Genertela, could you please cite the
reference? We play that Prax and the Wastes, where Genert's Garden used
to be, may have been that badly affected, but not the rest of the
continent. While I agree that crops fail often there because it is a
marginal land, I don't think that they are doomed to failure without
Bless Crops. I think of this spell as a prudent insurance policy.
The given area is quite generous, considering that it is calculated in
time. A day-long rune spell is quite something, as I think that the
spell implies that it can only be cast while doing the day's plowing (or
something similar). No, I'm not trying to force anyone to figure out
all the stuff that I mentioned in that posting (5909), but anyone who is
curious, (and many people were discussing it) might actually like to
know one place to check some of this out. As for being anally retentive
(I think that I was included in that), you should see the habitual state
of my house! A pedantic and didactic hairsplitter, yes (like many on
this daily), but not a neat freak! My mother still lives in hope,
though.
To reply to Alex Ferguson (5956), our festival ended up on Aldrya's day
in a roundabout way. Ian mixed up Bless Crops, or Bless Earth, or
whatever it's called, with Sunripen, which must be cast on that day. I
think that I'd still keep it there, if possible, because Voria=virginity
as well as spring, and that just isn't what we want from our crops and
flocks! I'm sure that there is another festival for Voria, too, but
much less lewd.
Hyaenas: in reply to Loren Miller (5947) and Pam Carlson (5949)
Actually, Loren, it was Alison Place who wrote. My husband put a more
definite disclaimer than usual on that message, because he didn't want
anyone to think that he has strange dreams like that! However, your
point about broo is well taken. I have thought of them more as a
bastard tribe of Prax because they are sentient (they are occasionally
hired or sought as allies in the intertribal strife), but many are
probably closer to fixed-INT animals, and they are definitely way above
the nuisance level.
Concerning other, smaller, carnivores, I assume that there are plenty,
including all the ones you mention, Pam. I particularly like meerkats,
myself, since I've seen them on TV and watched them in the zoo. Hyaenas
are actually viverroids, themselves. Your comment about their evolution
sent me to one of my favourite references, Mammal Evolution: An
Illustrated Guide, by Savage and Long (honestly!). It seems that among
the carnivores the canids are on one branch, along with bears, raccoons
and eared seals, while hyaenas, civets and mongooses, and the cats come
off another, with Viverridae being the sister group to Hyaenidae. Sorry
about the pedantry, but taxonomy is something that really interests me.
As for really big raptors, I don't think so. There are the condors of
Condor Crag, which are large enough to bear a human, but they aren't
predatory. One of the Borderlands scenarios involved climbing one of
the crags to grab some eggs. It seems that one of the tribal rulers in
Balazar was jealous of his Yelmalion neighbour's huge hawks. These he
had found while heroquesting, so I don't think that they are available
anywhere else.
I like the sound of your white bison trek. By the time your fellows
find AND free him, will they all be greybeards? It sounds as if you
could spin this out forever.
bye, Alison
---------------------
From: gad...@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois)
Subject: The Dara Happan Monomyth
Message-ID: <199409012229...@CLIO.MCC.COM>
Date: 1 Sep 94 12:29:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6004
From: SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Date: 31 Aug 94 05:28:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5973
But if the tripolis had a unified mythos already, why would this be
needed? So...my thought is that the tripolis did not have a unified
mythos, that each city and its surrounding area had its own unique
mythos that Plentonius merged together.
Wow, that makes a lot of sense. It's just the sort of trick Greg would
pull, too. Another piece of possibly supporting evidence: Each of the
Ten Tests apparently came from one of the original ten Dara Happan
cities, indicating a much more federated empire than one is led to
believe by Plentonius. It would also go a long way to explain the
multiple flood myths and the confusion over which sun god is in the sky
when.
On the other hand, the Seshnegi at the Dawn did recognize Yelm as the
Sun, which leads me to think that maybe Plentonius' multiplicity of suns
is a ReAscent deconstruction to explain the lack of the sovereign aspect
in post-Dawn Dara Happa.
--David Gadbois
---------------------
From: Arg...@aol.com
Subject: Mostly Morokanth
Message-ID: <940901220...@aol.com>
Date: 2 Sep 94 02:05:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6005
Re: Morokanth
Thanks to all who replied on the subject of "How come the
Morokanth aren't extinct?" I'd elaborate on a couple
suggestions:
Terrain. Prairie Dog warrens might prove a resort if better
terrain is not available. I agree with Sandy that bogs and
cliffs are good for the Morokanth & herdmen, even though they
have to fight broos in the former and cliff toads and the
occasional Ostrich Rider in the latter. Ian pointed out the
advantages of rocky ground and prepared positions. I would hope
that broken or rocky ground would be fairly common in Prax, so as
to provide an amount of area which befits one of the Five Great
Tribes.
Shields. I think I'll save this for circumstances where the
Morokanth expect to be in smooth terrain, such as with the slaver
party several people seem to have encountered. Not all Morokanth
can afford a bronze or even wooden shield, getting by with just a
hide shield (rhino is best, but has to be bought) or a tanned
herdman skin and bone shield (gives new meaning to "skin and
bones," doesn't it?). A herdman normally carries this, and may
even deploy it in battle.
Limitations on Missiles. Sandy mentioned the historical facts
from Western warfare, though a better analogy would be Mongol
hordes or Plains Indians (who, in the movies, used a lot of
arrows). Joerg mentioned the time & rarity factors in making
arrows, both very valid points.
Fear of Becoming a Herdman. Pam Carlson makes this very valid
point.
Digging. I would add to the suggestions of others that
Morokanth, given no better options, dig trenches. They're fairly
well equipped for that, and the herdmen might be trained to help.
This provides cover from arrows and (equally important) obstacles
for charging lancers. Dig a couple rows of trenches close
together, plus a few little pits for stumbling into, and you
deter charging foes.
I found the ecological basis which Sandy Petersen provided
convincing and fun.
---===---
Re: Praxian animals
Another large predator is the lionbird, which I think I
already uploaded to this forum. If not, let me know, and I'll
send it. Or if I did, and anybody missed it, I'll send it by
email.
I vote for coyotes as the canids of the plains, partly
because they're smart and fast-breeding and partly because they
provide another trickster spirit (see below).
Speaking of coyotes, I'd bet that Praxians like to have a
few High Llamas around in their herds to protect the other
animals--especially the impala and sable deer, which are prey for
coyotes even when full-grown. As has been mentioned in various
magazine and newspaper articles I've seen, llamas have no fear of
coyotes (or wild dogs or bears, for that matter) and happily take
charge of herds of sheep to protect them.
---===---
Re: native Praxian tricksters
Jonas asks if there are any Trickster worshippers in Prax.
Aside from Raven cultists, there are Hyena folks. I'd vote for a
native Trickster tradition, simply on the basis of Maximum
Gloranthan Fun and some (admittedly vague) idea of historical
analogues. On the other hand, if one of the "trickster"
traditions is of the backwards warriors--watch out!
---===---
Harald--
Bravo on your "heresy." Yelm is a composite, and his Glorious
ReAscent is really the rise of a self-ruled Dara Happa with a
unified mythos (most likely as a result of a unified cult).
[Comment about a certain famous god of our world who is a
composite from different traditions deleted in the interests of
A) not getting flamed and B) not offending people.]
--Martin
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Hsunchen
Message-ID: <1994090207...@radiomail.net>
Date: 2 Sep 94 07:00:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6006
ian i. gorlick said
>Moose hsunchen should be regarded as somewhat more excitable than Storm
>Bull berserkers with even less concern for personal safety.
This raises the question of whether hsunchen are just like their totems. I
think not. They do bear many resemblences, but they are first and foremost
people, and secondly omnivorous hunter-gatherers. Moose are neither.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Moons and their mothers
Message-ID: <H.ea.pa6...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 1 Sep 94 15:24:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5993
Harald Smith in X-RQ-ID: 5973
> Since I haven't seen anything other than GRAY on Entekos, I'm probably
> not in a position to comment with any certainty on the nature of the ur-
> Entekos. I would accept the following as true: she is Pelorian, not
> Dara Happan, in origin and is associated therefore with the ancient
> earth cults; she is linked by Plentonius with a host of air related
> titles (I concede that it is unlikely for her to transmute herself); she
> is the Mother of Moons.
Right Air: ths title might apply to any Earth deity which succeeds to
tame a Storm god, and the "Right" might be verbal tense. Earth wins over
Storm, right?
The symbols around GW II-1's legs could symbolize air. My new
interpretation would be plants: Entekos is the deity under whose
feet plants sprout.
II-2 to II-5 are the four aspects of womanhood, with Naveria and Lesilla
somewhat overlapping.
If Naveria is the goddess of wives, whose wife was she? (The Dara Happan
emperor's in the story Greg read at Convulsions?)
Ditto for Lesilla, goddess of mothers. Whose mother was she?
Lesilla's rune reminds very strongly of Moon: both the half and the
quarter moon. Plentonius fails to make the Lunar connection.
The Rune above Entekos' head is that identified as Dendara in the Copper
Ledgers and in "The Perfect Sky" (in DHBE). I take it to mean Earth in
Peloria - the four corners have become the four quarters.
> Is Entekos a Green Age or Golden Age entity? Given the general Dara
> Happan feeling towards goddesses and the patriarchal tendencies of the
> Golden Age myths, I would call her a Green Age entity.
Greg said in his introduction to his readings of the Entekosiad, that
these were the Pelandan myths. He said the Pelandans say they're older
than the Dara Happan myths, whereas the Dara Happans say these were
Flood time myths, when everything fell back to primitivity. Possibly
they are a mixture of both pre-Dara Happan and Flood-time myths, confused
by later oral tradition.
> If this is the
> case, does she exist before Aether exists? If she does, she can't be
> an entity of air.
Only a mother of air (gods) (as well as a mother of moons, which are
unlikely to have existed before there was a sky, too).
> If after, then she can certainly be an 'air' figure.
Ernalda has become associated to Storm via Orlanth and his sons (Thunder
Brothers, not necessarily Barntar).
> Another possibility: is she either the true child of Aether/Gata OR the
> twin of Umath? The idea of a twin appeals because it suggests the later
> Orlanth/Red Goddess dichotomy.
Twin of the element? I'm not sure. The story about Entekos meaning "Right
Air" needn't mean that this was the origin of either name or deity.
The goddess which came to the court later could be the same as the one
in the story I referred to earlier.
> (And while I'm on that train of thought,
> is the Red Goddess perhaps the reincarnation of Entekos?)
One of her daughters, most likely. My bet would be on Verithurusa,
one of the Wedding Contest participants, somewhat identical to
Verithurus, and certainly sharing his/her rune. Verithurusa could
be the Vinga of the Yelm pantheon, a daughter acting as a son, a
common theme in Solar myths - think of the two Balazaring incidents:
Dykene, and her descendant Starnia Stormrender.
DHBE p.45 has the Red Goddess as a granddaughter of Dayzatar, but gives
no name. Plentonius doesn't give other descendants from Dayzatar than
Ourania, her daughters, and (perhaps) Pole Star.
Strange enough that the arch-chauvinist Plentonius admits a mistress...
Aside:
Let's assume Ourania is the Light of Knowledge Lhankor Mhy quests for
in the LBQ, does this raise the possibility the Red Goddess is his
daughter?
When Plentonius recounts the fall of Mernita, he mentions a "false sun"
Sedenya, who crushes down onto her city. Mernita is marked with the old
(or Pelorian) form of the Moon Rune (according to "The Perfect Sky").
We know that a moon crushed down onto northern Peloria - the Blue Moon,
whose ruins formed the Blue Moon Plateau. Could this be Plentonius'
version of this event? Ashrill, the land of Verapur, is shown in the DHBE
maps as the east shore of the Thunder Delta, southwest of the Blue Moon
Plateau. Dosvolos, the original land of Mernita, could be covered by
the remains of the Blue Moon...
Boztakang's realm was described as "joined the ice troll of the glacier"
in Uz Lore, and only when Chaos invades, Boztakang lives at Blue Moon
Plateau. It wasn't there when the trolls first migrated northwards.
> In regards to the Moon rune, we draw most of our evidence for the rune's
> source from the writeup of Annilla in Troll Gods where there are
> darkness and water connections. It seems to me that the rune may
> equally have an origin in the mix of light and earth (afterall, we have
> Moon Rocks, not Moon Water).
The same would apply to the planetary deities, the children of Yelm
and Dendara. Still we have no incling what makes a stellar body a moon.
Is it the "glow that is not light"?
I doubt that the Red Goddess has water connections other than Annilla or
the Young Elementals, or later marriages into local pantheons. Annilla's
Blue Moon is the moon of water, as its colour indicates, too.
> Yes, I know the earth rune is square not
> round, but the earth has dark tendencies that I think fit well. Thus,
> Entekos might be the child created in the first union of earth and sky,
> rose up to her place, and was then torn down by Umath, though she left
> a calm space where her moon had been.
The Pelorian Earth Rune might well be round. After all, the Pelorian bowl
is roughly round as well.
> Regarding Molanni [...] As
> for the dates, 5 years would not be enough for Plentonius to take note,
The date given by Peter was off for about 9 years - Argentium Thriile
usually is dated in 230, not 239. The date isn't that certain, though.
> unless the battle of Argentium Thri'ile was also a heroquest which
> altered the hero plane and Plentonius found he had to include a mention
> of her.
Hmm. Why should the traitoress and effective weapon against Storm be
included into the Dara Happan pantheon in a victory for the Storm
cultists?
The identification of Entekos with Molanni was not made by Plentonius,
but by us. It seems obvious. Is it?
Plentonius painfully fails to mention Vadrus, of whom we are told
earlier that he was a noted enemy of the Dara Happan Sun Gods. Unless
Vadrus is one of the Rebellus Terminus aspects. Plentonius seems to
think about Storm gods like Storm Bulls think (well, act reflexively)
about Chaos: Small Storm is all Storm, Storm is evil, kill Storm! No need
to distinguish. He seems to regard Air as an aspect of Sky, not an
element...
> I concede this as unlikely, but I would ask whether the
> beastriders might not have reached Dara Happa prior to the battle as
> mercenaries in the employ of the Theyalans who had been around since the
> 1st century reawakening old spirits.
Maybe Molanni was adopted by the Horse Rider Warlords as a weapon against
the Theyalans. GRoY mentions (p.43) the advent of the first Theyalan
missionaries in Dardaggus' (Eater of Flesh) reign. They were slaughtered,
and their stuffed corpses were displayed...
> - Starting up another line of heresy
> While I was working out my thoughts on the flood myths yesterday, I got
> to thinking about what Plentonius was doing. Since the Dara Happan
> empire had just reemerged, I would guess that he was trying to tie up
> lots of loose ends to get a comprehensive Dara Happan mythos.
I agree that the Dara Happan Empire had only just reemerged - to be
exact, the Theyalans had made Khordavu's teneous hold on the
Tripolis cities surrounded by Warlords (the Jenarong horse rider
nobility) and their hordes into a real empire. He did liberate
most of Dara Happa and quite a lot of neighbouring countries temporally
from Warlord domination (p.51), but on p.52 the Great Counterattack is
mentioned - in typical Dara Happan understatement the fact that the
hastily collected empire fell to the horse nomads and only the fortified
cities held out is omitted.
This fact has been reeinterpreted by the Dara Happans (already of
this time): Khordavu is said to have summoned the Eastern Horde to
counter the Theyalans approaching from the south, or vice versa.
> But if
> the tripolis had a unified mythos already, why would this be needed?
To ascend to the throne for the first time, Khordavu had had to kick
out Upon Hilltops aka Eusibus, son of Shargash.
> So...my thought is that the tripolis did not have a unified mythos, that
> each city and its surrounding area had its own unique mythos that
> Plentonius merged together.
I agree that each city had its own ruling deity, which was the one true
Emperor of Dara Happa (unless a Warlord had occupied that position). The
names Tripolis, Dekapolis or Septoli indicate a non-centralistic
structure rather than one central authority, maybe (like the Celestial
Court) a gremium of rulers (not unlike the council of egi which makes
up Takenegi, or the Red Emperor).
> Yelm, therefore, is a manufactured deity!
Yes, but differently so.
The composite role of _one_ sun god and _one_ emperor could have been
reverse-engineered. Plentonius work (like most compilations of myths
before 1950) was heavily politically motivated. Maybe Plentonius used
the fact of the combined sun of Time to combine all the local Sun
Gods (like Murharzarm). The combination of earlier suns above Dara Happa
apparently continued well into the Dawn Age - the contests between
Shargash, Kargzant, Lightfore and Antirius (in the order of their
defeat) are reported. Others might have been omitted.
Even the name Yelm seems to have been adopted from the Theyalans, who
might have found it elsewhere - did they ever contact Kralorela? The
Waertagi could have transported them after they had settled in the
Rightarm Islands. Or Yelm was the name of the sun in the drowned Spike
civilisation somehow surviving into Theyalan myth, possibly via the
aldryami.
The closest thing to "Yelm" the Dara Happans offer is "Yuthu", meaning
"god". The first time that the element "elm" appears in the emperors'
names is with Wanthanelm (epithet "the Cursed", btw), Mahzanelm,
Erzanelm, Khorzanelm, all of Khordavu's dynasty. It coexists with
"davu", probably another gentile deity.
Maybe a linguistical analysis of the emperors' names will yield more
hints - I feel that ever since KoS Greg pays attention to linguistics.
> The true Dara Happan sun gods are Murharzarm in the north (probably from
> Yuthuppa and brought from the city that won--hence the mythic city of
> Yuthubars);
Raibanth is my bet.
> Antirius in the central region (though many of his myths
> suggest a southern Pelorian origin, as do the later Sun Dome temples);
Another god of Raibanth, successor of Murharzarm (slain by Orlanth,
or as an effect of cyclical time or grand mythical pattern by
some other storm or thunderer god. Shargash?). IMO.
> and Shargash (or the earlier name Nemarthshar) in the south.
Good linguistical connection. Shargash's identification with Alkoth seemed
a bit artificial to me when I first encountered it. He seems too much
like Orlanth to me...
> Other
> areas sun gods were ignored or suppressed because they refused to join
> the 'empire', including Nivorah (possibly Kargzant) and the Theyalan
> lands (Elmal).
Most important: Mernita, the city of Sedenya, eradicated by the wreck
of the Blue Moon.
> Each of these gods faces a similar series of myths--the
> flood, the fall of the sun, etc. But when Plentonius puts them
> together, he rearranges them so that each important city's deities have
> a place and aren't forgotten.
Yes!
> (After all, if he leaves out Antirius,
> Raibanth will leave the empire. Similar for Shargash at Alkoth.)
While I doubt these direct associations, a grandiose work of myth
reconstruction! Kudos!
Other topics:
Voria's Father: IMO neither Yelm nor Orlanth, nor any other male. However,
this parthenogenic birth was explained by the associated male cults as
their god's daughter.
P.S.:
Sorry about the message to Hans appearing on the Daily, the address
landed mistakenly in the subject slot.
Everybody else is invited to the German RQ-Con in Berlin as well, of
course.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
X-RQ-ID: Extro
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: duncan.h...@afrc.ac.uk (HEDDERLE)
Subject: Cults - back to the trees?
Message-ID: <3604380802091994_A16067_FRIR_118912061400*@MHS>
Date: 2 Sep 94 10:38:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6007
Hi
First, a disclaimer: I'm coming back to RQ after about 10 years away (or at
least only in infrequent contact), so my opinions might be tinged with nostalgia
or convenient forgetfulness. However...
All this cult discussion (eg the Vinga thread) seems a bit too PRECISE for my
taste. We're talking about myths and symbols here, and all this highfalutin'
theology takes the magic and mystery away. Detailed delineations of the subcults
and lesser gods in a pantheon might be appropriate for the more regulated/
sophisticated cultures, but out in Dragon Pass/Prax I wouldn't be surprised
if I rode into a village and found they were interpreting Vinga or the Garzeen
aspect of Issaries completely differently (Well, I s'pose I WOULD be surprised,
and maybe a bit offended, but I SHOULD accept the possibility). I don't know
how you'd fit this in with the RULES - either the cults have to take on a
more social aspect (OK, Vinga cult protects and supports it's type of people,
even if it doesn't have some unique magics to offer - just the usual stuff
available to all more-or-less Orlanthi), or to make them both flexible and
magically distinct we'd need some guidelines for Heroquesting (so that once
you've got your own interpretation of Vinga, you can go out and cook up - or
rather, try to get from/thru her Spirit - a Unique Magical Sales Package
((Gives an entirely new meaning to Medicine Bundle to all you economists out
there!)) ) - or alteratively some GM flexibility.
This also sems to stray onto the Decent Thief Cult thread - a thief cult
(with special magics for nicking stuff) seems unlikely (it doesn't fit into
the social ecology); but in a world like Glorantha there must be magics which
will help a thief (or there aren't many thieves!), so how do they get them?
Through spirit cults like the Black Fang maybe (could a powerful gangster
hire a shaman to track down a spirit to teach him some magical trick?), or
as a side-effect of hellraising cults like Orlanth Adventurous/Vinga. Niche
cults like Lanbril seem a bit unlikely (especially since RQ 3 tightened up
the requirements for recovering runemagic - somehow the idea of a Lanbril
temple, and high holy days seems dafter than moose to me)
Maybe I'm on entirely the wrong track here; maybe in a world like Glorantha
priests CAN just pray to one of their pantheon and get the inside story on
whether Vinga is Orlanth's sister (older or younger) or daughter, and whether
it's more appropriate that you throw great parties or gather in the harvest
to honour her
---------------------
From: pea...@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za (Dave Pearton)
Subject: The great David Scramble, part 1
Message-ID: <m0qgWZ2...@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za>
Date: 2 Sep 94 15:13:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6008
Phase One of the great David scramble is soon to be initiated - this avatar
of the primordial David and holder of the debased Dave rune is moving from
the burning depths of Pamaltela (aka South Africa) to the very borders of
Valind's glacier (aka Seattle). MAybe I'll finally get to see a moose.....
Phase two might be a problem, how do we persuade David Dunham to move to
South Africa ? <g>
Henk, could you please suspend my subscription for about two weeks? Thanks,
I'll tell you when I have email access again.
Ah well,
Cheers
Dave
Not Pamaltela, but Pietermaritzburg, not moose, but Yak.
***********************************************************************
Dave Pearton * ....As I was saying before I
Biochemistry Dept. * was so rudely interrupted
University of Natal * by one of my multiple
Pietermaritzburg * personalities....
*
pea...@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za * Naked Lunch (W.S. Burroughs)
************************************************************************
---------------------
From: Bob.L...@tiuk.ti.com
Subject: Hippogriff -> horse
Message-ID: <940902111...@ibrox.tiuk.ti.com>
Date: 2 Sep 94 11:19:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6009
Hi from Bob Luckin !
Pam Carlson asked (X-RQ-ID: 5949) :-
> Does anyone know where the story of horses' devolution from birds can be
> found?
I think the fullest explanation I have seen is in Wyrms Footnotes 11, p26,
in Greg's article on Yelm...
Yelm's original steed was King Griffin. After Yelm was slain, King Griffin
quarreled with other light gods and his children withdrew themselves from
being slaves to people who rode them. One of the feuds was over the treatment
of King Griffin's favourite child, Hippogriff. Yamsur, one of Yelm's sons
was allied to Hippogriff by oaths of friendship, but in several fights she
was abandoned by him and hurt.
First Storm Bull broke her fangs out of her mouth, and she could no longer
bite.
Then in a fight with Maran Gor her legs were broken and her claws ripped
from her feet. However Yamsur was able to replace her feet with hooves.
Later, Zorak Zoran tore off her golden wings and thus she could no longer
return to the sky.
Later still, she was broken by Hyalor Horsebreaker, a mere mortal (however,
he claimed descent from Yamsur, so this defeat was perhaps apposite). He
rescued her by changing her name and identity to Hippoi or Horse, and since
then her descendants have worked more for man than man has worked for the
horse.
When Yelm rose again, Hyalor accepted him, and he and Hippoi prospered in the
early years; this was the origin of the Pentan Nomads.
Hope this helps !
Cheers, Bob
--
Bob Luckin vo...@tiuk.ti.com "Able was I ere I saw Corflu"
---------------------
From: pa...@runegate.nacjack.gen.nz (Paul Heinz)
Subject: VarmandiSaga
Message-ID: <2e67cd44...@runegate.nacjack.gen.nz>
Date: 2 Sep 94 01:11:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6010
Paul "RuneLord" Heinz here.
Sam Phillips
============
Hi Sam!
I've been running a Sartar campaign using the Varmandi as a base too.
I personally think it's the best RQ/Glorantha game I've ever run. This
doesn't mean it's that great objectively, just that my other RQ games
were worse in terms of Gloranthan feel and "accuracy". I'd like to
see your Varmandi saga and as an offering, here some highlights from
my game where I am giving much thought to a Kinstrife theme. If any of
my PCs are somehow reading this, stop now!
I'm running mine in 1614 after Starbrows rebellion and backdated the
Genertela Book stuff and stole bits from other places. In my game
Rastorlanth and many of the Varmandi carls died in the rebellion leaving
the Varmandi dominated by women who are tired of war. Thus Vastyr the
Gentle was elected to be Chief as he is the (henpecked) husband of the
local Ernalda priestess, Yolina. The Orlevings are Lunar allies and did
not fight the Lunars, rather they raided them and ruined the Varmandi
steads around Tarkalor keep, leaving an area that both clans now contest.
The Orlevs are suffering from population pressure and desire to expand.
Within there number, I have a group of especially nasty male Orlevings who
have formed a warband and are rabidly attempting to convince the rest of
the Orlevs to escalate from raiding and feuding to full scale war against
the Varmandi. As these Orlevs are known to be killers and wastrels, they
do not really have the favour of the present Orlev chief. They are also
believed to have slain the family of a member of the chief's bloodline who
was forced into a blood feud over some disputed property rights. Justice
was perverted as the warband Orlevs called for a Holmgang (they were in the
wrong but "Violence is always an option") and as they have a habit of maiming
the opposing champion, no-one wished to challenge them and the case was
dropped. The warband then proceeded to harass and threaten this family who
then left the Orlev lands to live in one of the not-too-ruined Tarkalor keep
ex-Varmandi steads but were fell upon and slain hideously. My PCs then had
a wild shadowcat that sometimes sleeps in their woodpile arrive with wounds
with long dead flesh in them. The slain Orlev family had largely become
hideously misshapen ghouls and a nasty draugr.
One of my favourite Orlev NPCs is "Gnokki the Cannibal". This is a huge
Orlev carl with twin red pigtails, filed teeth and foul demeanor. He is
known for biting the ears of his foes to "mark them" and rumoured to then
capture, torture, and eat them in secret to gain their strengths. I'm using
an idea of Paul Reilly's that if you act in proscibed chaotic ways, you
may fall prey to the Chaos God who the act is "sacred" to, thus Gnokki has
become a Cacodemon worshipper and is turning into an Ogre. He is indeed
gaining strength from his enemies and, whats more, he likes it. Like the
Cannibal cult, he likes to mark and then cultivate powerful enemies. One
of my PCs has been marked by Gnokki and it's makes him quite nervous. The
PCs found the Orlev warband near their lands after searching for a local
clanwoman (Erissa - the year wife of the village Storm Bull Ugbahn) with a
large amount of (assumedly) Lunar salt with them (Lunar pay for their
mercenary activities). They planned to salt the Varmandi lands (sacrilege
against Ernalda!). My reckless (we use Pendragon traits) three PCs charged
and attacked the camp of 12 Orlevings in the dark and rescued the about to
be raped Erissa (who took a real liking to the PC which caused no end of
trouble with Ugbahn but that's another story), one PC was knocked unconscious
by one blow from Gnokki and had his ear taken. He then left his body and had a
spirit vision, met Old Man Varmands ghost (spooky) and his dead father (even
spookier) who helped him and with the help of Ugbahn and brothers (who were
chasing their younger brother Ergi) showed up and helped to drive the warband
off. The Warband leader (Gnokki's cousin) had his throat slit by one PC but
managed to survive and be healed and I plan to have him come back with a
Kergan like scar and attitude.
My current plan is to involve the PCs in a HeroQuest style struggle. The
Orlev Storm Voice plans to interfere with a Varmandi fertility ritual which
is performed each Spring at the end of plowing time.
The Thunder brothers venture into Engiziland to capture the Boar of Plenty.
They then sacrifice it and spill it's blood on Esrola's fields to enrich them.
This ritual was performed by Old Man Varmand and each year, the new Orlanth
initiates are sent to capture a (magical) boar and bring it back (this idea
came via Davids' Blue Boar HeroQuest amongst other stuff). The Orlev Storm
Voice is questing to cast the questors in the roles of Vadrus's and Ragnaglar's
kin as opposed to Orlantha and his kin which will make the quest more magical,
for higher stakes, and much harder. For one, Barbeester Gor will challenge the
PCs (calling them unusual names like Vadrus, Gagarth, Molanni, and Ragnaglar).
I picture her in armour of ironwood bark, with a ver-de-gris'd copper shield,
a live hissing snake for a belt and a copper great axe with various shrivelled
(male) organs hanging from it accompanied by her half pig/half dog hunting
beasts (a la Fragment 1611 from Tales).
Anyway, enough for now. More later, if anybody's interested.
TTFN,
Paul "RuneLord" Heinz
--
=====================================================================
Paul Heinz
pa...@runegate.nacjack.gen.nz
Auckland, New Zealand.
---------------------
From: jme...@cs.utexas.edu (John Joseph Medway)
Subject: XO@#! Email Problems
Message-ID: <1994090213...@darkwing.cs.utexas.edu>
Date: 2 Sep 94 03:28:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6011
John here, with Gloranthan Content = 0, and RQ Content = 0, but this seems the
easiest way to handle this problem (in other words - sorry for the interruption
of the Moose-Elk debate).
If you were expecting mail from me, (either because I previously threatened it,
or because you're psychic, or guess right) which didn't happen, or if you've had
mail to me (j...@zycor.lgc.com or some variant thereof) bounce or go without
requested response, in the past few days, please let me know, and please resend
if necessary.
I "upgraded" the operating system on my workstation and email hasn't been quite
right since.
If the system still "blows chunks", or "chunders" for our friends who are
Northern Hemisphere-challenged, please use the address below:
I now return you to the Great Moose-Elk debate. "Hey Rocky,..."
BTW: Anybody want to start a month-long debate on the appropriateness of
Duckman as a model for Gloranthan ducks? (Makes a better fit than Donald,
I'd say.) Or howabout Cornfed for Pig Hsunchen?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| jme...@cs.utexas.edu | university of texas at austin | 512.292.2325 |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| "Every evil has been the result of insane, selfish greed!" -- Duckman |
| "Well, *duh*." -- Cornfed |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: T.J....@soton.ac.uk (T.J.Minas)
Subject: Humakti musings...
Message-ID: <1994090216...@willow.soton.ac.uk>
Date: 2 Sep 94 18:52:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6012
Hello again everyone.
I just SO love Bank Holiday weeks, when
the mail machine is unavailable! Alison Place, I agree with you
about the effect of reading 10 days worth of Digest at once!
A couple of random thoughts first. Do the Humakti of Ygg's Isles
have tales of Sword Maidens descending to the battlefields to take
the slain noble warriors up to Humakt's Einherjar? Whether riding
winged beasts or just flying, it sounds like a good tale!
On another note, I was intrigued to read Alison Cloak of Sankes
story, in which Vinga goes in for sword dancing. Having watched
the TV version of the Edinburgh Military Tattoo just recently,
I was inspired by the concept of Sartarite Humakti doing sword
dances. It would seem that this custom has spread to all the
Orlanthi!
Elk/Moose/Whatever
==================
Could everyone who has a real strong opinion on this just outline
the following details. I don't want any Latin, or "common" names
that will set off arguments again, but "Just the Facts, Ma'am"
(To quote another older US TV show!)
Details required:-
Name of Hsunchen tribe (Eg Aleci, Pralori etc)
Description (in terms of size, habits, eating habits, etc, not
RW analogues) of the Totemic beast
Area(s) where these guys can be found
How many of them there are in each of these areas
Any other points on them.
I think this would help clarify exactly what all you guys have
been arguing about for the last few weeks!
Nomad Gods
==========
Possessing, as I do, an original version of this boardgame, anyone
with queries on it is welcome to e-mail me with questions. I don't
promise to know the answers to everything, but I will try.
Thief Cults
===========
A couple of thoughts here. Only "civilized" societies would ever
have thieves who considered themselves part of society. All other
cultures would view thieves as outsiders, and thus, definitely
they would fall under Trickster!
People (In these "non-civilized" societies) who stole from
other societies/clans/etc probably aren't thieves, and would
worship (eg) Orlanth Adventurous. Remember, these guys would NOT
see themselves as thieves, and would be mortally insulted if you
described them as such. No way would they worship a Thief god.
Thieves in civilized societeies thus tend to exist in towns
and cities. Even here, they are unlikely to ever have huge numbers
of people willing to cooperate (Thieves Guilds, sure, but they
might well be rivals!), and so even fairly large cities won't have
anything much bigger than a shrine. Especially if many of the
thieves follow different deities. EG some might follow Trickster,
others Lanbril, yet others Orlanth or Donandar, the City God,
Ancestor Worship.
Why, then, is anyone moaning about the lack of a decent Thief
God? The reason that there isn't a really powerful thief God('s
cult) is because (Circularity strikes!) there ISN'T a really
powerful thief God! Lanbril in the RQ" Pavis writeup was far too
powerful.
Renewing Rune Spells
====================
On Alex Ferguson's point re the ability to get a spell from a
temple if you conduct some unknown locally ceremony to regain (eg)
a Sever Spirit from a Shrine. Two points: a) It should be at a
pretty big penalty; and b) Subcult/Associate deity spells should
NEVER be available from a shrine that doesn't actually provide
the spell.
That's about it for now, once I sit down and read all the printouts
I'll get back to you!
Ian Gorlick, Thanatar/Vivamort cults please (Beg, beg or I'll send
the Gatherer of Souls round!)
Bye folks
Tim Minas
---------------------
From: Brian.D...@def.bae.co.uk (Brian Dickinson)
Subject: RuneQuest Dailys and Morokanth
Message-ID: <9409021513.AA08511@server_a.YP.stevadoma>
Date: 2 Sep 94 15:13:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6013
Arghh!
Chaos demons temporarily hid my email address in the void and
I missed out on the RQ dailies from Wednesday 31 August and Thursday
1 September.
Could some kind soul please mail me these dailies, particularly the
start of the Morokanth thread!
As to morokanth being particularly vunerable to missile fire, I
would think that in the unfortunate event of being caught in the open
in daylight, by say Zebra riders, the morokanth would sort through
the herd and line up all the zebra rider slaves and herdmen in the
front row. Might make the raiders a little less inclined to shoot
from a distance, especially if they recognise any close relatives <g>.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Bless Earth and Vinga
Message-ID: <940902190...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 2 Sep 94 19:02:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6014
Bryan J. Maloney asserts:
> First, Bless Earth is necessary to merely get a "normal" crop in Genertela.
Does anyone have a source for the "Truth" of this? Several people have
suggested it, I know, but most of them have been selling something. Hard
to tell if this is a Type One or Type Two Flat Statement.
> In Pameltela, since the Father of the Land still lives, things are naturally
> fertile, and Bless Earth gives you an excessive crop.
This would seem more likely if either: Pameltela actually _was_ more fertile
than Genertela; or if there was notably less earth worship in Pameltelan
argicultural societies than in Genertelan ones. (Maybe this latter is true,
though.)
> As for Vinga, I have ALWAYS seen her as Orlanth's sister. What evidence is
> there that she is Orlanth's daughter?
That her cult is (Gregged to be) so much like Orlanth's suggests it; if they
were siblings, one would expect greater differtiation, unless they were
actually twins... (Yes, I am aware that fraternal twins are no more
genetically similar than other siblings, but I bet most Orlnathi mythologists
aren't.) Not that she appears in the KoS chart in either (or indeed any)
position.
> I see her as one of the many unsung
> and underappreciated daughters of Umath. She is an Orlanth "subcult" in
> many Theyalan cultures because they just can't figure her out otherwise.
Saying that Vinga has a particular nature, it's just that her worshippers
fail to understand it correctly, seems a somewhat odd line of argument.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Here, here comes the flood...
Message-ID: <940902191...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 2 Sep 94 19:17:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6015
Devin's Homonculus:
> Alex writes:
> "Nope. Isn't the idea of non-derivative mythology somewhat like the old
> Rolf Harris line, "Here's an old English folk song which I've just written"?"
> True enough...and I don't want to turn this into a major debate since I am
> not THAt upset with it....but that particular myth seemed a bit TOO
> derivative.
If that's a derivative myth, what, I wonder, is to pluck a couple of examples
which happen to wander into my forebrain, the reputed properties of the Styx,
or the name of Teshnan sun or... those with a higher product or Gloranthan
Mythology Lore and Terran Mythology Lore will be able to provide more
examples.
If there's a problem with the flood myth, it might be that the Terran
analogue is very familiar, if not overly so, to all us (lapsed or otherwise)
Judeo-Christian tradition types.
> Avivath seems rather Jesus-like to me....but I would have only been cheesed
> out if Greg had had him nailed to a Death Rune.
Should I mention that Greg conspicuously Failed to Refute Nick's theory
that Hrestol was crucified? (I don't much like that one myself, though.)
> [...] Therefore, I am still perplexed why Yelm
> would choose to cleanse the world with an impure element (Water), using a
> Rebellus Terminus vehicle (Rain) to cause to flood a Lower and therefore
> unclean deity (Oslira).
I don't think the Dara Happans, and certainly not Pelentonius, would agree
with these characterisations. Just because the Theyalans are keen on rain
doesn't mean the Dara Happans (necessarily) dislike it (under all
circumstances). I think their attitude towards Water is essentially like
that towards Earth: it's a Good Thing, pragmatically, though without the
Purity of the Sky Realm. The fact than rain originates from the sky is
probably taken by the DHns as a sign that it's subject to the rule of the
sky powers.
> One would think that, considering all of these impure elements have ganged up
> on Darra Happa, that rather than a cleansing action, this would have been
> regarded as an invasion.
When one gets Truly Seriously Hosed by some adverse occurrence, in order to
explain it you'd either have to say: our God did it, he was mightily
peeved at us; or some other god did it, ours wasn't able to protect us from
it.
Alex.
---------------------
From: chao...@ix.netcom.com (Sam Shirley)
Subject: New e-mail address
Message-ID: <1994090220...@ix.ix.netcom.com>
Date: 2 Sep 94 06:16:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6016
Chaosium has changed its e-mail address. The old address:
chao...@netcom.com
has now changed to:
chao...@ix.netcom.com.
Please change your records to reflect this.
Our other address, chao...@aol.com, remains the same.
Please use the chao...@aol.com address for all routine correspondence.
The chao...@ix.netcom.com account is only intended for large files,
such as manuscripts, maps, eps files, tiff images, and other large things
which AOL does not handle well. I will NOT be answering routine mail sent
to the chao...@ix.netcom.com account.
Chaosium's official internet address in chao...@aol.com. Please do not
give out the chao...@ix.netcom.com address.
Thank you muchly,
Sam Shirley
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Vinga again.
Message-ID: <940902220...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 2 Sep 94 22:08:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6017
Original Source David on Vinga's runes:
> I seem to be outnumbered on this -- I use just Mobility and Air.
I join David in his outnumberedness. Even if she _is_ Ernalda's daughter,
she's not a Woman's Path deity, and has no real earth function that I'm
aware off. (Compare with Lodril, who has a _huge_ earth function (entendre
unintended, but not "withdrawn" -- fnarr), but not the rune.)
> But if
> Greg treats her as an Orlanth subcult, does the Earth rune give her
> anything?
Doubtless not. Yet more evidence that Greg's an Evil Sexist (if more were
needed after Dara Happa and Seshnela); we must stop him going to all those
Men's Mythology workshops.
> As for Bryan's thought that she is Orlanth's sister, could be. I prefer her
> being his daughter from a one-night stand, as always happens with mythic
> heroes, but that hero could be Umath, I suppose.
I don't see this as a huge issue; after all, we already have license to
confuse Umath and Orlanth whenever we like (to wit, Greg does).
> I treat Vinga as a subcult as described by Alex (though I don't forget that
> _I_ came up with the Wind Run spell :-). Except that I don't see
> Vinga-specific temples (they do have their own separate shrine building in
> the rambling Orlanth temple complex in Kilwin).
I don't think Vinga temples are at all common, but the reference in G:G to
Kallyr's Red Hair Lodge suggets to me that they can form when (direly) needed.
Though their "temple" may not be bigger than a shrine in RQ3 terms, anyhow.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Thaw of Jonatela
Message-ID: <940903001...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 3 Sep 94 00:16:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6018
Joerg and me:
> >> Timms thawed earlier, in 1597 (induced by the Lunars).
> > [...] why do you say the thaw was induced by the Lunars?
> > G:G blames Dona boatmen, after all. Though this could cover people from
> > Eastpoint egged on the Lunars, I suppose.
> Something along that line. Eastpoint was the first city to have outside
> contact (the Lunar moon-boat expedition of 1589, see Jar-eel, p.34).
> [...]
Yeah, but there seems no direct Lunar agency in the thawing of Timms. I'm
not quite sure if you having reason to suppose there is, or you're just
blaming them indirectly.
elsewhere:
> I was talking about mind-affecting spells, something the Lunars dominate.
Get thee to a punnery.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Red-shifted deer.
Message-ID: <940903003...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 3 Sep 94 00:39:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6019
Sandy persists in His Own Private Nomenclature, in particular for
C. canadensis, which no-one would get peeved or confused about if they
were refered to as "wapiti":
> > Apparently you know little about Cervus elaphus. They are
> > HUGE and shaggy, with needle-sharp horns, excellent swimmers, and
> > they can be mean. Bull elk (they're not called "bucks") make a sound
> > during the rut that can only be described as a roar.
Joerg:
> If this (and your cthulhuid story) is the case, I don't think we have
> this beast over here in Germany. True, the red deer does something
> which is described (in German) as "roehren", which seems to be somewhat
> diminutive for "to roar", but while looking somewhat royal, the red deer
> is too skittish to be considered majestic.
I knew Joerg and I had agreed too long on this thread: the Monarch of the
Glen, not majestic? Maybe the Teutonic types have some other species too,
C. scitticus. ;-) Granted, they don't go around charging emplaced artillery
positions, but maybe that just makes them non-stupid. Well, not all _that_
stupid.
> What I mean is that the beasts of Ygg's isles are the subarctic species
> of large deer with spoon-like antlers a sub-average-sized man can walk
> under.
Is this plausible for a bunch of small, isolated islands? Not many Alces
alces on the shetlands, are there?
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Morocanth pin-cushions.
Message-ID: <940903014...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 3 Sep 94 01:49:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6020
Martin worries about:
> Re: Morokanth tactical inferiority against missile-toting mounted
> enemies
> If equal groups of Morokanth and Impala Riders meet, and the
> Impala Riders have laid by an adequate store of arrows, all other
> things being equal, my money is on the pygmies.
I think Martin's probably right, in this example. But the other Great
Nations make much less (if any real) use of the bow, so with them the
main difficulty is withstanding cavalry charges, which I'd think they
would be pretty good at.
> My quick fix is to have the Morokanth carry great big
> shields, which they can arrange in a circle to protect themselves
> from missile fire. As a result, their enemies steal all their
> herds, but the Morokanth can track them down and steal the herds
> back at night, which leads to back and forth raiding--and the
> question becomes "who gets tired first?"
If the night raid involves stomping over the entire campsite, and enslaving
a prisoner or twelve, the hapless minor tribe should get fed up fairly
quickly. The morocanth aren't likely to be much fun to pillage themselves,
so there would be the likelihood of coming off worse in the "trade", and/or
getting stomped in a stand-up fight.
Alex.
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: str...@hopper.itc.virginia.edu (John Strauss)
Subject: eating marsh mallows
Message-ID: <1994090313...@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: 3 Sep 94 05:52:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6024
Paul Reilly gives his view on how Morokanth compensate for the lack
of missile cavalry.
Good stuff, Paul. I am filing this stuff away along with a couple
fo other comments on this thread. But I have reservations about one
factor you proposed:
>5. They like marshy ground and wetland plants, and go down near
>the coastal flats, the Fever Trees, the Devil's Marsh, the Krjalki
>Bog, etc. They are immune to several human diseases (Yellow fever
>equivalent?) that make such places distinctly unhealthy for
>humans, and they like to eat some plants that humans can't live
>on. In short, they have a different niche from Praxian humans.
Number one: There are more than one models of gloranthan disease
running around right now and I won't go into it here. But no matter
what model you use, either the Morokanth or their herd and slaves
will be subject to the same diseases as their opponents.
Number two: A central mythical theme of the Waha tribes states that
the Morokanth are in the SAME subsistance niche as humans. If a
human can eat it, so can a Morokanth and vice versa. They are
competing for herd grazing and meat, the same niche, and that is
why the issue of combat comes up in the first place.
Maybe this can be fudged a bit. Maybe they are different from a
terrain perspective. As you pointed out, they have good night
vision, can dig quickly, we might add swimming or marsh wading to
that. But be careful about the food business.
If you have already established in your game that the Morokanth eat
marsh foods or some such, you might shift that to the idea that the
Morokanth have some secret knowledge about foods that the other
tribes THINK are poisonous. The terrestrial example would be the
tomato, which was considered poisonous by europeans for some time.
(My wife STILL thinks so. ;> )
This leads me to a second food issue. Does anyone know if the
*herds* can subsist in those marshes? Is there fodder suitable for
herdmen or bison?
>Our Morokanth Khans keep prize fighting bulls and when two
>Morokanth tribes meet there is often a boxing match.
That gives me a subplot idea. Thanks.
John Strauss
str...@hopper.itc.virginia.edu
---------------------
From: Arg...@aol.com
Subject: potshots, not contributions
Message-ID: <940903115...@aol.com>
Date: 3 Sep 94 15:55:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6025
Alex fumbles his Animal Lore roll in reply to Joerg's statement--
>> What I mean is that the beasts of Ygg's isles are the
>>subarctic species of large deer with spoon-like antlers a
>>sub-average-sized man can walk under.
>Is this plausible for a bunch of small, isolated islands? Not
>many Alces alces on the shetlands, are there?
Gigantism is common on islands. Dunno anything about the
Shetlands--maybe the first settlers wiped out any gigantic fauna,
as the Maori did to the Moa.
Paul Heinz: thanks for the Varmandi story. More, please.
(Players in my game should be warned that if combat does occur,
it's likely to be as nasty as in Paul's game.)
T.J. Minas (do your friends call you Tirith?), in an otherwise
commonsensical bit about thieves, talked about Thieves' Guilds.
This phrase always causes me to scream. Lhankmar is a bizarre,
ancient place, where even the thieves are organized. Elsewhere,
you could have dens, gangs, or families of thieves, but the use
of the word "guild" could only be ironic, and even then it's only
appropriate in places with proper guilds, such as, say, Seshnela.
Elsewhere, there might be primitive trade organizations (for
above ground trades), but guild doesn't have those connotations.
"Thieves' Guild" makes me think "Local 1104, AFL-CIO." <rant
mode off>
Alex moans:
>Bryan J. Maloney asserts:
>> First, Bless Earth is necessary to merely get a "normal" crop
>>in Genertela.
>Does anyone have a source for the "Truth" of this?
At the Gloranthan lore auction, Greg and Sandy said something
pretty close to this. Check page 60 of the RuneQuest-Con
Compendium. I thought there was something specifically on Bless
Crops, but couldn't find it.
>> In Pameltela, since the Father of the Land still lives, things
>>are naturally fertile, and Bless Earth gives you an excessive
>>crop.
>This would seem more likely if either: Pameltela actually _was_
>more fertile than Genertela; ...
It is. See same citation, above.
Henk:
Was there a part 2 to Friday's Daily? Part 1 was fairly late in
coming, and it's not-unheard-of for parts to be two or three days
late, but I thought I'd ask, as it's also not-unheard-of for
parts not to show up at all.
--Martin
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Renewing Rune Spells
Message-ID: <940903183...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 3 Sep 94 18:35:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6026
Tim Minas:
> On Alex Ferguson's point re the ability to get a spell from a
> temple if you conduct some unknown locally ceremony to regain (eg)
> a Sever Spirit from a Shrine. Two points: a) It should be at a
> pretty big penalty;
Two days of having to make INTx3% rolls per melee round would qualify,
I should think, in the instance Greg cited, of doing it where the locals
were of a totally different aspect, and were hostile to the process.
I don't see there being a _huge_ problem where it's simply a case of
which spells a particular temple "stocks", for example, if an Orlanth
Thunderous Priest wants to renew Cloud Call at an Orlanth Adventurous
temple that doesn't provide it, if you have the manpower and knowhow to
do the appropriate ritual. (Big if.) I think it's wrong to think of
spells being "hardwired" into particular sites. Whether temple _size_
as such is a particular handicap over and above this I'm not sure.
It's somewhat hard to assess a specific penalty under the current
rules, which abstract the process so much that there's not even a
ceremony roll involved.
> and b) Subcult/Associate deity spells should
> NEVER be available from a shrine that doesn't actually provide
> the spell.
I fail to see why ever not. Assuming that by "available", you mean
"possible to renew by some means", and not just "renewed while you wait".
Of course, to renew an associate's spell, you at least need a shrine or
temple _to that god_... If you're an Orlanthi wanting to renew Lock, you'll
need an Issaries shrine or temple, not an Orlanth temple with no Issaries
shrine.
This is all somewhat hypothetical in regards actual play, I think, unless
your PCs constitute some sizeable chunk of a temple contingent.
Alex.
---------------------
From: phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Here comes the rain again
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 3 Sep 94 19:57:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6027
In-Reply-To: <940903071...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Alex Writes:
"If there's a problem with the flood myth, it might be that the Terran
analogue is very familiar, if not overly so, to all us (lapsed or
otherwise) Judeo-Christian tradition types."
And its worth remembering that the flood myth turns up everywhere. Its
there in the Judeo-Christian bible, but it also appears in Babylonian
myths (runic source?) Greek myths and even the Viking mythology. Of
course by the time the Viking myths were written down they were all
Christians, but the idea of the Earth being covered by the sea is very
widespread. it's probably there in Egyptian as well, but they have some
different ideas about floods (live giving instead of destroying).
Now if I was a Cambell or Jung actolyte I would start saying that there
is something fundemental about the idea of a world destroying flood that
resonates with a part of the human psyche, which would explain why they'd
appear in all those ancient cultures and in Glorantha as well, since
Glorantha is still human mythology, just mythology that no-one beleived
in until 1966. Fortuneately I'm not a Jung or Cambell acolyte. but I know
a man who is....
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Vinga and cult write-ups
Message-ID: <H.ea.l8M...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 3 Sep 94 22:02:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6029
Duncan Hedderley in X-RQ-ID: 6007
> First, a disclaimer: I'm coming back to RQ after about 10 years away (or at
> least only in infrequent contact), so my opinions might be tinged with nostalgia
> or convenient forgetfulness. However...
Doesn't look like that. In fact, your views about diversity might be too
modern for some of the later initiates to RQ.
> All this cult discussion (eg the Vinga thread) seems a bit too PRECISE for my
> taste.
I don't know whether to agree or not. With the myths, I always want a
one true version for myself, and a malleable basic set to adapt for all
the local variations.
> We're talking about myths and symbols here, and all this highfalutin'
> theology takes the magic and mystery away. Detailed delineations of the subcults
> and lesser gods in a pantheon might be appropriate for the more regulated/
> sophisticated cultures, but out in Dragon Pass/Prax I wouldn't be surprised
> if I rode into a village and found they were interpreting Vinga or the Garzeen
> aspect of Issaries completely differently
This is our inheritance from Cults of Prax, I'm afraid. CoP did the
marvelous job of explaining both the local phenomena and some world-wide
effects of the cults, in much more detail than we do now for Vinga, but
it failed to say which bits were open to variation.
Also (Alex, reply in private, if at all!) the apparent fixation to one
deity per cult seems to stem from this supplement. This parallel
monotheism which resulted already contradicted Nomad Gods, with all
the documented incidental worship and exchange of magic with whatever
deity was available.
The tendency to blame the fixed and uniform cult structure of CoP (and
even RQ3) on the God Learners is just an attempt to incorporate this
rules construct into the world. IMO it is misplaced for Prax, a God
Learner forgotten place if there are any.
Prax IMO isn't what the GLs called "theist" anyway, it verges between
naturalism and theism, in their nomenclature. So does most of the rural
theist populace, to a lesser extent - the presence of hags or shaman
hedge-wizards all over Sartar, and the acknowledgement of local spirits
like the Lady of the Wild or Tarndisi in Dragon Pass isn't really theist.
The theist society as described by the GLs was perhaps the Holy Country,
especially Caladraland and Esrolia, and (although they never really
visited it) Dara Happa, although the latter (and a lot of Peloria) has
mystic tendencies - Nysalor, Red Goddess and Dayzatar, plus the surge
of mysticism during the EWF.
> Niche
> cults like Lanbril seem a bit unlikely (especially since RQ 3 tightened up
> the requirements for recovering runemagic - somehow the idea of a Lanbril
> temple, and high holy days seems dafter than moose to me)
Niche cults survive by using niche cult mechanics. Eurmal is exempted
from any temple size strictures, Chalana Arroy, Malia, Thanatar and
Krarsht cheat by including cult spirits (as does Daka Fal), other cults
like Black Fang simply ignore the word "theist" and do it the shamanic
way only, taking the (Genertelan, or Theyalan-influenced) naturalist way.
One of the most sensible changes the RQ4:AiG draft made was to soften up
the temple size rules and make them dependant on fervour as well (and
reducing the minimum numbers to about half of the RQ3 rules).
> Maybe I'm on entirely the wrong track here; maybe in a world like Glorantha
> priests CAN just pray to one of their pantheon and get the inside story on
> whether Vinga is Orlanth's sister (older or younger) or daughter,
I think this is not the case. IMO Divination will yield only the personal
(and thereby cultural) opinion of the caster, the deity seems to operate
on the basis "if you feel you're in the right, so be it". (Don't howl,
Devin)
> and whether
> it's more appropriate that you throw great parties or gather in the harvest
> to honour her
Once again, what feels right probably is, although in this case the reply
is easier: do what the deity does in the myths you know.
As to Vinga's identity: If you try to apply linguistics, Vinga seems
to be a likely candidate to be the (twin?) sister of Vingkot, and thereby
a daughter of Orlanth (but not necessarily of Ernalda, although for sake
of a peaceful hearth most myths assume she is).
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Ygg's Isles and antlered beasts
Message-ID: <H.ea.3_E...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 3 Sep 94 22:02:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6030
and another things Alex aims at me:
Re: Thaw of Jonatela
X-RQ-ID: 6018
J>> Something along that line. Eastpoint was the first city to have outside
J>> contact (the Lunar moon-boat expedition of 1589, see Jar-eel, p.34).
J>> [...]
A> Yeah, but there seems no direct Lunar agency in the thawing of Timms. I'm
A> not quite sure if you having reason to suppose there is, or you're just
A> blaming them indirectly.
Not exactly blaming, rather applauding. The Thaw seems to spread from
places which have reestablished contact to the outside, like Loskalm
(Dormal) and Eastpoint (the Lunars). The boat-people started to spread
it further, but the Lunars started the whole thing in the east. If the
Thaw had been induced from Loskalm only, I estimate that the Arrolian
territories would thaw by about 1627, not 1589.
Re: Red-shifted deer.
X-RQ-ID: 6019
> Joerg:
>> If this (and your cthulhuid story) is the case, I don't think we have
>> this beast over here in Germany. True, the red deer does something
>> which is described (in German) as "roehren", which seems to be somewhat
>> diminutive for "to roar", but while looking somewhat royal, the red deer
>> is too skittish to be considered majestic.
> I knew Joerg and I had agreed too long on this thread:
Look forward to our next meeting - this time archery. You had your
chance in the contest of swords (well, clubs).
> the Monarch of the Glen, not majestic?
Most of all, we lack the scenery here on the Cimbrian peninsula to
make him look majestic. Routinely entering the woods with bow and arrow
(for archery tournaments only, hunting must be done with firearms in
Germany) makes one think of it as prey rather than as a monarch, too.
> Maybe the Teutonic types have some other species too,
> C. scitticus. ;-) Granted, they don't go around charging emplaced artillery
> positions, but maybe that just makes them non-stupid. Well, not all _that_
> stupid.
While the antlers may look impressive, around here the poor beasts live
off cultural land rather than wilderness. As a result, they look (and
probably feel) out of place. And a Dachshound is enough to send them
running.
>> What I mean is that the beasts of Ygg's isles are the subarctic species
>> of large deer with spoon-like antlers a sub-average-sized man can walk
>> under.
> Is this plausible for a bunch of small, isolated islands? Not many Alces
> alces on the shetlands, are there?
Ygg's Isles aren't that isolated. Think of the hebrides (inner and outer),
or rather of Tromsoe and Lofoten. The Norwegian isles have regular visits
from continental elks (sic), which wouldn't cross the Westfjord, but
have no problems the minor sunds or fjords. I wouldn't put it past an
elk to cross the Ofot-Fjord (near Narvik).
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: GBa...@aol.com
Subject: campaign with Kallyr Starbrow
Message-ID: <940903190...@aol.com>
Date: 3 Sep 94 23:06:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6031
I'm starting a Fantasy Hero campaign (my gaming group isn't
interested in RQ) in Glorantha. Since most of the players
have never heard of Glorantha I'm forcing them to be young
Orlanthi humans from the same village near Boldhome.
I thought of making them childhood friends and companions
of Kallyr Starbrow , who I will run as a NPC. Is there any
other information about Kallyr in other books besides KoS?
Where did she get the name of Starbrow? When was she born?
I was thinking of starting when she is 14-16 years old.
Needless to say (but I'm saying it anyway), I hope my
campaign doesn't come to a bad ending. Then again, page 212
of KoS has her living until 1630 instead of getting killed
in 1626. Any ideas on what is most likely correct in the
"official" timeline?
Glen
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: More on the Lands of the clans of the Colymar.
Message-ID: <940903233...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 3 Sep 94 23:39:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6032
You may recall I was trying to locate the territories of the various
clans of the Colmar tribe some time ago. Due to the kind offices of Greg,
Nick, and Sam (the One True's, in each case, natch), I've been able to
find 'em all, so here are all the answers that you lot had better not know,
after failing to tell me last time. ;-)
Places:
Talar -- this seems to be a destroyed village, and/or a battlesite, and is
about two miles up the Swan from Runegate, south of the river.
Arfritha Vale -- the Arfritha is _not_ a tributary of the Swan, but the
southernmost one of the Creek, running through the Thunder Hills, from
Fairjowl, and past Redbird.
Now the actual clans:
Narri lands: region north of and round Stael's Hills, up to the Creek.
The reference in KoS to the Stream, regarding the "fish marriage", is
seemingly mistaken, and should refer to the Creek.
Lonisi/Taraling: region east of Runegate, north of the Swan River, and south
of Stael's Hills, and a smaller area south of the Swan.
Enhyl: lies round Ostor Colymar, from the Upland Marsh, to the back of the
Upper Starfire ridge.
Varmandi: Tarkalor's keep, south to the Swan, east to the Rainbow Mounds.
Hiording lands: south of the upper Swan River round about Swan, between
the Starfire Ridges and the Thunder Hills.
Orlmarth: Starfire Ridges, and the area back to the road south of the Upper
ridge.
Arnoring: Old Tower, and the "corner" between the road and the Stream.
Ernaldor: North of the Stream, including Clearwine, and the lower Nymie
Valley.
Anmangarn: area around Tarndisi's Grove, between the Starfire Ridges and
the Thunder Hills.
Konthasos: The valley to the northeast of Clearwine.
Enjossi: From the Seven Falls (the rapids between Clearwine and Richberry(?) Vale), to the area round the north-eastern limb of the Stream.
The Thunder Hills were reoccuppied after the exterminations by the Tree
Triarty: the Antorling, the Lysang, and the Namolding.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Put the Moose topic in the Red Data Book.
Message-ID: <940904022...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 4 Sep 94 02:21:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6033
Sandy:
> Alex:
> >Joerg and I can both claim to have cohabited, country-wise, with
> >_Alces alces_
> really? What country? I know there's none in Scotland or
> mainland Germany.
Sweden. (In my case, at least.) Not that downtown Go:teborg is a major
migration route, exactly.
> >But _Cervus canadensis_ isn't _that_ much bigger, is it?
> 1) it's not universally agreed to be a separate species from
> C. elaphus.
I've only seen one source that says any different (though others mention
the same-species as an Opposing Theory). At any rate, referring to
wapiti as C. elaphus, without (sub)species distinction, when speaking
_exclusively_ about them (e.g. how little we europeans evidently know
about them) is non-useful.
I've also seen a reference which claims moose are a distinct species
from the (eurasian) elk, come to that, which I feel I should mention in
case this raises any qualms about relabelling them all en moose masse.
> Unless stimulated to further action by needling beyond endurance, I
> plan to cease posting about the great Elk controversy.
No, no, Great Elk are something _completely_ different, aren't they?
Alex.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: 10027...@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: The trouble with Nick is...
Message-ID: <940903082347_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 3 Sep 94 08:23:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6021
Sorry my responses are so slow these days: pressure of work, clan moots,
plus cooling-off time after reading Peter Metcalfe's recent spleen.
(And then my posting seems to have bounced for being too big. Look where
reticence gets you! The erratum got through; this is the second edition
reposting of the article it should have followed)
___________________
Michael C. Morrison
> Other issues: I'm wondering what gods newtlings typically worship.
The newts we met in Apple Lane worshipped the Great Newt. We Greydogs are
all de facto initiates in his cult (except the Humakti, but they aren't
Greydogs any more), and meet round the "Spawning Pool" to do the bug-eyed
ritual thing once a year. No, we can't say any more unless you join us.
________
Darragh:
> Could someone please summarise the history of the Dragon Pass/Nomad Gods
> trilogy of games? ... I'm a little unclear as to what revisions/errata/
> variants/link rules there may be out there.
Well, there was a unifying errata in an early Wyrms Footnotes which brought
"White Bear & Red Moon" into line with "Nomad Gods". Think that was in the
old days of AE/AR/NE/DR/DE combat tables, rather than the modern (neater)
sixths'n'quarters'n'thirds chart (i.e. back in the Dark Ages).
Early issues of Wyrms Footnotes were packed with errata and variants and
expansions for "White Bear & Red Moon", but those were presumably weighed
in the balance when the game was redone as "Dragon Pass".
The third game in the series, "Masters of Luck and Death" (also known by
its later title, "Lords of Fate") wasn't ever satisfactorily designed, and
has never been completed or released. It would have been a more mythical,
ritualised game of questing to become Pharoah of the Holy Country, perhaps
by taking part in mythological events to gain special powers and allies in
the Sixths of that magical land.
Part of the original master-plan was for a game called "Shadows Dance" to
link all the other three games together.
One issue of Avalon Hill's sickly "Heroes" magazine had a Q&A section on
"Dragon Pass", but this contained no variant or expansion material.
It's pretty easy to run Nomad Gods under modern Dragon Pass rules: my first
ever game was played at Convulsion with this one quick fix, and no haggling
points arose.
Stephen Martin, Glorantha guru extraordinaire, has recently revised Nomad
Gods to make it compatible with Dragon Pass (modern versions) and with a
more informed understanding of Prax. The Great Gods are particularly good.
The French games company Oriflam will be bringing out their edition shortly
-- if their Dragon Pass (La Guerre des Heros) is anything to go by, it will
be beautiful. But in French, alas! There was talk of a possible English
edition using French-made components but I'm unsure if anything came of it.
I'd recommend writing to Stephen and asking him for more info. He can be
emailed on:
sma...@soda.berkeley.edu
Stephen is also keen to design a "Masters of Luck and Death". A guy named
Charles Morehouse has done his own version of this game; David Cheng could
put you in touch, though it isn't meant to be compatible with the DP games
(completely different mechanics etc.). On this list, I'd imagine you're
already aware of Joerg Baumgartner, our resident wargamer (we HAMMERED him
at Dragon Pass!), who's working on the same part of the world (though from
a military rather than a HeroQuesting perspective, it appears).
As for "Shadows Dance": if anyone out there knows where the Chaosium file
on this game disappeared to, why not drop them a line...
________
Peter M:
> Have a look at the six wounding errors of Antirius and see if you can
> identify the people involved. Why did Plentonius leave that in?
As Plentonius was compiling and not inventing *most* of the material in the
Glorious ReAscent, I'd assume it was a widely-disseminated myth. Probably
from Yuthuppa rather than Raibanth, but that's just my opinion based on the
functional division, where this seems a "priestly" rather than "imperial"
story. So it would have devalued the GR if he'd left it out ("Where's my
favourite story about Antirius, eh? This book's not very good!").
> Not having Nomad Gods (proving I'm not a god learner know-it-all), I
> can't really say whether Mistress Calm is actually Brastalos or Molanni.
I've never mistaken you for a know-it-all, Peter.
Mistress Calm is *actually* Mistress Calm. But, in your terms, she has more
similarities to Molanni than to Brastalos:
: MISTRESS CALM: This is the Mistress of the Calm Sky who appears cloaked
: in wispy but shadowing clouds decorating her benign appearance. Her
: influence calms even the dry chaparral, making life possible where she
: rests. Thus she can support three units.
Counter stats: CF @, MgF _3_, MF 3, RF *
Now, is Mistress Clam "actually" Molukka? ;-)
> Dendara is a planet according to the copper tablets, but does not appear
> in the sky today.
I'm trying to persuade Greg that when Yelm was always in the sky, it was
appropriate for his wife Dendara to appear gloriously radiant at his side.
When Yelm went to Hell, it was only fitting that she follow her lord and
master. Now, she follows exactly the same path, at the same time, as Yelm;
thus she is never visible. The terrible alternative would make it possible
for Dendara, the model of wifely fidelity, to go out at night without her
husband: surely an unthinkable occurrence!
> Isn't the moon always full within the Glowline? :-)
Lunar power is always at its greatest within the Glowline, whatever the
phase of the moon may be. I'm tempted by all of the following:
i) The dark face of the Red Moon is visibly black within the Glowline;
thus, whereas outside the Glowline the moon is not visible for two days of
every week (as in our world at dark of moon), within the Empire's bounds it
is possible to see a jet-black orb by daytime.
ii) A red halo or moon-ring rather like a corona appears around the moon,
getting brighter as the moon wanes and fading again as it waxes. So even at
night, you can see what phase of the moon it is.
iii) Through "reflection" from the Glowline (or some such mechanism), the
night sky throughout Peloria is tinged with a faint pinkish glow. Rather
like the way city lights screw up stargazing in this world. This is another
Lunar rosy glow, and one which makes everything look slightly /different/
outside the Empire.
I haven't dabbled in mythic justifications for these visible effects. Also,
if campaigns want to keep an always-full, horizon-at-the-Glowline Red Moon,
it's no skin off my nose.
______
Bryan:
> I run that villages that have enough Bless Earth around don't starve and
> die. How many is "enough"? That all depends ... Bless Earth is an expli-
> cation of background magic. It doesn't need to make numeric sense unless
> one is of the anal retentive persuasion.
Hear, hear! Until we have some solid farming rules for RQ, why frot around
with the magical details?
_______
Martin:
Calls for details on how Morokanth survive. I'm sure Sandy's yer man, if he
can stand the repetition.
_____
Alex:
> This is what Nick is (I think, principally) objecting to as "God Learner-
> ism", though to some extent, all Gloranthans do this. ("Ah, your sun god
> must be our Emperor. Sorry, I have to kill you now.")
No objections to that. I think the difference is in the clinical, manipul-
ative or acultural approach of the bona fide God Learner. If you approach
someone else's story from within your own, that's fine by me.
> I'm not sure whether to praise Nick for his selective leaks, or vilify
> him as a Big Tease. (Clue in the subject line, though.)
Understandably, Greg would be pissed off if I leaked the text of his latest
work to the Daily. Like other owners of "The Red Goddess", I've been urged
to exercise restraint and respect in disseminating data. There's a pretty
nifty curse on it, too (though it's not as heavy as the one on "Argrath's
Saga"), so I'm in no hurry to Reveal All.
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: 10027...@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: ... he talks too much.
Message-ID: <940903082453_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 3 Sep 94 08:24:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6022
Sorry this is late: my original posting bounced.
________________
Alex 'n' Alison:
My Big Spring Festival in Esrolia was on Flamal's Day, when the seeds are
sown. Voria's Day in Sartar is, for me, when the first flowers open after
Storm Season and Sacred Time. I like Alex's variant (the un-Voria-ing day)
for use in a warmer climate.
______
Sandy:
> Of course, this makes [Yelmic types] very stern, tending to see things
> in terms of black and white.
You think they're bad, wait til you see my Carmanians!
____
Pam:
> Does anyone know where the story of horses' devolution from birds can be
> found?
"The Cult of Yelm", in Wyrms Footnotes #11. A reprint is coming soon in
Wyrms Footprints, from us charming folks at Reaching Moon Megacorp. Your
sneak preview follows:
: YELM THE RIDER and the tale of the Horse
: The original steed of Yelm was King Griffin, ancestor of the great race
: of sun-loving creatures. Ever since that time the cult has taught the
: skill of riding flying beasts (specifically griffins). However, when
: Yelm was slain King Griffin quarrelled with the other light gods and his
: children withdrew themselves from being slaves to people who rode them.
: Thus it is that so few people ride on the wondrous animals, even where
: the sun is worshipped.
: One of the feuds which King Griffin had with his fellow light gods was
: over the treatment of his favourite child, Hippogriff. She had been an
: ally to Splendid Yamsur, eldest son of Yelm, who used to be called The
: Victorious. Splendid Yamsur and Hippogriff had taken solemn oaths of
: friendship together, but in several fights Hippogriff was hurt and
: abandoned by her erstwhile friend, who was not called The Victorious
: afterwards.
: Hippogriff underwent a series of painful and humiliating experiences
: during the War of the Gods and the Great Darkness. First she met Storm
: Bull in raging battle and her proud fangs were broken out of her mouth
: so she could no longer bite. In a fight with Maran Gor, the Earthshaker,
: Hippogriff's legs were broken and her bronze claws were ripped from her
: feet, but Yamsur was able to replace her feet with hooves. The greatest
: sore was when Zorak Zoran tore off her golden wings, laughing as he
: robbed her of ever returning to the sky. But most humiliating was when
: this once great godling was taken and broken by a mortal, Hyalor Horse-
: breaker.
: Hyalor was not totally unfit to ride upon her. He was a leader among men
: and he also believed in the long disappeared sun. In addition, he claimed
: descent from the God Yamsur who was slain by the Devil, and claimed that
: he was freeing her crippled spirit from death and wished to make an
: alliance. He rescued her by changing her name and her identity. Even so
: man got the better of the bargain. She was called Hippoi, or simply
: horse. Ever since then her descendants have worked more for man than man
: has worked for the horse.
: When the sun rose again Hyalor was ready to accept him, having survived
: the Darkness through great faith and courage. The horse, already used to
: slavery, leapt to meet her old master. The pair together received great
: bounty in the first years, and their herds and numbers increased greatly
: with the Blessings of Yelm. This is the origins of the Horse Peoples, who
: later became the Steppe Nomads.
All (c) Greg Stafford, and written over ten years ago (for the benefit of
pedantic GRAY- and DHBE-bashers).
> Are there any aerial predators [in Prax], like griffins or really big
> raptors?
Some Griffins have a nest atop the Block, allegedly. And the giant condors
of Condor Crags fit the bill.
> Do hyaenas get respect from humans due to their association with the
> Trickster?
About as much respect as human Tricksters do, i.e. this is a *negative*
factor. IMHO.
_______
Harald:
> ... This does not mean that Khelmal, Antirius, Elmal, Yelmalio may not
> exist as independent entities, just that their natures are altered to
> some extent by those who still have free will - the heroquesters.
I'd broaden that to "the worshippers", while accepting that it's six of one
and half-a-dozen of the other. I'd fracture it by saying that both Khelmal
and Elmal can exist at the same time: if there is a GodLearneresque "core"
to this common/shared deity, these two are equally valid aspects of "him".
That is to say, it doesn't matter to Sun Dome Yelmalions what stories the
Imther folk tell about Khelmal, as they have no impact on their own deity-
aspect, who is separate from the mass. *Unless* one of these stories is
brought to their notice and they like it enough to covet it for their own
mythos. Or unless some outsider "forces" it upon them.
Based on the high quality of Harald's excellent Imther myths, this must
mean there is very little communication between the tribes of Imther and
the poor, thus far mythically-deprived Elmali and Yelmalions of the South.
__________
The Flood:
The "Fortunate Succession" (which makes up the bulk of the Dara Happan Book
of Emperors) adds a third Lodrili Emperor to the naughty dynasty of Ovosto
("King Rump"): after Ovosto and Orogoros comes one Orovinos. (He's added to
the Glorious ReAscent's list in the eighth century, when various Pelandan
myths seem to be creeping in). Very little firm or useful data about him
comes out of the notes to the lists.
My suggestion: Orovinos is the famous Drunken Emperor. I see him as rather
like Peacock's Seithenyn ap Seithyn Saidi, for those of you who still read
good books. Devin will of course comment on this parallel, and on that to
the Drowning of Ys. Good. I like parallel myths. Tells me I'm on the right
path...
Emperor Orovinos had an insatiable thirst. He commanded his cupbearers to
bring all of the decent Wine within the palace to him until he exhausted
that supply. Then he called for foreign drinks, like the Mead of Darjiin,
and even for vile-tasting and indecent drinks like Beer, and quaffed these
until his stomach was fit to burst. But still he was not sated, and called
out for Oils and Elixirs and other unnatural potations. None of these could
satisfy his burning thirst. Then, finally the Emperor called out for Water
to be brought.
The cupbearers asked, "Any water?"
The Emperor answered, "ALL Water!"
^^^
And thus came the Flood, obedient to the Emperor's Will.
_________________
Moons and Comets:
With a pinch of salt, and further to the von Daniken theory of Dara Happan
origins expounded a few months ago, here's my Velikovsky theory of Pelorian
catastrophism:
Clearly, the "Moon" referred to in the earliest myths is not the moon we
recognise today. Equally clearly, it is impossible for the "Sun" to have
gone out, as is claimed in myths found world-wide. The simplest explanation
is that the so-called Moon of Godtime was in fact a Comet, headed straight
for Glorantha.
This giant body impacted Glorantha at the moment known in myth as the Death
of Yelm. Throwing up huge volumes of particulate matter by its impact, the
clouds darkened the sun, blackening it out at noon for the time immediately
after the collision. The shock of impact would also have caused earthquakes
and tidal waves. Longer-term effects of the climatic changes included wide-
spread crop failure and mass extinctions. For years after the crash, the
climate would have been colder, and the sun's rays dimmed by the greater
levels of atmospheric dust (creating the so-called "Cold Sun" of the Great
Darkness). Perhaps (pace Hoyle) this body brought with it some mutagenic
agent which was responsible for the reports of "chaotic" monstrosities at
this time. We can only wonder...
Among the long-term results of the "Moon" colliding with Glorantha were the
rise in sea-level (perhaps as a result of cometary ice introduced to the
biosphere), and the mysterious disappearance of a hitherto prominent
heavenly body. When a state of environmental equilibrium was once again
achieved (this being known as the Cosmic Compromise), conventional history
is said to have begun.
All of these factors are, of course, widely attested in Gloranthan myth.
("And if you'll believe that...")
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Journey of the Blue Wizard
Message-ID: <01HGOUE4Z...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 4 Sep 94 09:17:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6023
Hedderley writes
================
>All this cult discussion (eg the Vinga thread) seems a bit too PRECISE for my
>taste. We're talking about myths and symbols here, and all this highfalutin'
>theology takes the magic and mystery away.
Hear, hear. This is one of the major reasons that I attempt to identify
Antirius as Yelmalio as Elmal (but not Khelmal - after all that's Harald's
perogative) or Entekos as Molanni. If we accept that Elmal is a different god
from Antirius or Yelmalio, then we have severe problems (IMO) in trying to sort
out what happened to the Elmali tribes in the time of King Tarkalor. They
'wished to be able to bring a sunspear from their god'. Since Elmal does not
teach fire magics (and is probably not assoicated with Yelm to get the Sun
Spear), then what the dissidents are trying to do is to change to another god.
To me, this smacks of concious God Learnerism.
What I attempt to do when proposing these (admittedly sometimes convoluted)
histories of Antirius/Yelmalio/Elmal is to make them the same god so that
struggle was about determining the best way to worship their god. Since this
can be still very acrimonious (for example: Martin Luther and Jan Huss's
differences with the Catholic church rather than Muhammad's fight with the
Unbelievers and Hypocrites of Mecca), the same amount of blood can be shed (or
more often exceeded).
IMO, the Elmali dispute was settled by bringing in an Elvish version of the
cult that allowed some cult members to cast sun spear (ie High Priest and Light
Son) rather than a totally hardline solar cult that allows sun spear to be know
by everybody (from Yelm). I suppose the reason why the lunars liked Yelmalio
to introduce it into their lands was that they were afraid that the extreme
dogmaticism of the Antirius cult would allow for a resurgence in Dara Happan
nationalism
>Detailed delineations of the subcults
>and lesser gods in a pantheon might be appropriate for the more regulated/
>sophisticated cultures, but out in Dragon Pass/Prax I wouldn't be surprised
>if I rode into a village and found they were interpreting Vinga or the Garzeen
>aspect of Issaries completely differently
Some aspects of this are noticable on a larger scale in G:CotHW. The cult of
the Invisible Orlanth in Carmania and the Cult of Orlanth Victorious in Pavis
are part of the Orlanth body of worship but they are quite different. I expect
Yelm to be worshipped in some respect in Kralorela but I would not expect it to
be worshipped in the same way as in Dara Happa, or even to find a Yelm
Imperator there.
>I don't know
>how you'd fit this in with the RULES
My idea would be a liberal helping of subcult. In the Kyger Litor cult writeup
(the one in Elder Secrets - the best version <g>) the troll subcults all vary
from place to place. Gerak kag is worshipped only in Pavis and Dagori Inkarth.
Extending this example to the cult of Orlanth (I have not been speaking about
Vinga as I know too little about her to play around with - I prefer lots of
contradictory stuff) I could imagine, say, a certain spot where Orlanth gained
the sword Death. A shrine there would teach the one-use spell of sever spirit
or the strike spell taught by Eurmal the murderer.
Depending on how convienient this Orlanth Deathbringer subcult is, a Wind voice
or wind lord might decide to import it back home. Eventually it may spread in
which case it could concievably become part of the lexicon of standard Orlanthi
spells. On the other hand, CoP implies that the aerial aspect of Orlanth in
Prax is minimized in favour of Storm Bull and that Orlanth is primarily known
in his adventerous aspect. I would not be surprised if there were some khans
in prax who if asked to list the Storm Gods would reply 'Gargrath, Urox and
Mistress Calm' and be surprised if told that Orlanth was a more powerful storm
god than any in his list.
>Maybe I'm on entirely the wrong track here; maybe in a world like Glorantha
>priests CAN just pray to one of their pantheon and get the inside story on
>whether Vinga is Orlanth's sister (older or younger) or daughter, and whether
>it's more appropriate that you throw great parties or gather in the harvest
>to honour her
Not at all. The only way you find anything out from the gods about the truth
in their rituals is thruogh divination. If you have divination 10, that's
about 70 words for an answer about the deeper metaphysics of why Orlanth felt
it Just to bring back Yelm from the dead. The primary reason would be to make
the world a better place and any hint that Yelm's death was unjust would
propbaly be the last reason on the list. As for rituals, they're designed to
explain certain points about the god to the masses. If Vinga was fond of
throwing wild parties and also had a harvest legend about her, then what
rituals of her would be played up would depend on the needs of the tribe. If
they were fond of drinking at every opportunity, the party aspect would
obviously be played up.
Bob writes
==========
>[full description of Horse's descent from Hippogriff deleted]
What really puzzles me is that the Hyalorings are a seperate tribe from the
Jenarong Horsefolk. I can understand that the Hyalorings were the closest to
the first council and that their myths of the origin of horses would be taken
as gospell.
The Dara happan myth is entirely different, given that the Jenarong called the
Warlords Gamatae suggests that they were descended from the Nivorahings
(Gamatae <-- Gamaratae). Also Jenerong gets the Sandals of Protection from
Nivorah which suggests that the Dara happans are correct.
In many ways this begins to parallel all the stories of the creation of man I
have seen. The Galanin are descended from Lofak, the Jenarong are from Dara
Happa whereas the Hyalorings are from Genert's wasted land. Are there any
other sources of horse that we don't know about?
Cheers
--Peter Metcalfe
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Humakt on Ygg's Isles?
Message-ID: <H.ea.gu8...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 3 Sep 94 22:03:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6028
Tim Minas in X-RQ-ID: 6012
> A couple of random thoughts first. Do the Humakti of Ygg's Isles
> have tales of Sword Maidens descending to the battlefields to take
> the slain noble warriors up to Humakt's Einherjar? Whether riding
> winged beasts or just flying, it sounds like a good tale!
Certainly does. However, I am not so sure they'd worship Humakt; I'd
expect a different name at least, more likely a similar cult, but
with a totally different structure. Something along the lines of the
Tyr cult from Vikings, with a different name of course, and a couple
of radical changes in the myth. No wolf to bite off the hand, fights
against other deities (aldryami, uzhim deities) rather than Vanir
and giants. Ygg himself can't really be described as one of the main
Viking deities (Thor, Odin) directly, IMO.
> Elk/Moose/Whatever
> Could everyone who has a real strong opinion on this just outline
> the following details. I don't want any Latin, or "common" names
> that will set off arguments again, but "Just the Facts, Ma'am"
> (To quote another older US TV show!)
Ok, here comes what I thought of when describing the presence and
role of Hsunchen in my comments on Ygg's Isles. I restrict the focus
of my interpretation on northern Fronela.
> Name of Hsunchen tribe (Eg Aleci, Pralori etc)
Pralori (might become Aleci, or something very different)
> Description (in terms of size, habits, eating habits, etc, not
> RW analogues) of the Totemic beast
RW-analogues nevertherless:
The swamp-dwelling large herbivore with the elongated, horse-like head
known from the "Alaska" TV show (with Dr. Fleischman from New York), the
beast inhabiting Scandinavia.
An excellent swimmer, solitary, extremely hard to see in the wild, tasty
dark meat reminiscing of beef, _large_ spoon-shaped antlers (to be found
in the coat of arms for East Prussia, and the brand of the Trakehner
horses), the heaviest (or second-heaviest) land-dwelling mammal of Europe
(the Wisent, or European Bison, might be a contender, the brown bear to
my knowledge isn't). Diet is mosses, birch leaves, lichen, woolly grass,
and berries (blueberry and several other species common on the fjells of
Ygg's Islands). Within the fringes of Winterwood add rowan, hazel and the
occasional acorn or beech analogues of the scarce but existing
non-conifers of that forest.
> Area(s) where these guys can be found
Northern Fronela: inland fjords of Ygg's isles, the fringes of Winterwood,
Tastolar, Porent, Upriver, Rathorela (rare because of pressure by the
Rathori), northern Erigia.
> How many of them there are in each of these areas
I haven't got my Genertela Book at hand, but IMO the number given for
Fronelan Pralori gives a fair estimate for the total number of this
sort of "Pralori" in Genertela west of the Thunder Delta and north
of the Nidan Mountains.
Aleci in northern and eastern Seshnela (the outskirts of Erontree Forest,
also in Oranor in Fronela) and Ralios (border areas of Guhan, Lalia and
Lankst towards Ballid forest, Ormsland and East Wilds) have a similar,
possibly identical species as their totemic beasts, but they don't live in
the harsh arctic regions their northern cousins (both men and beasts) do,
and may (for all I care, although Jonas might feel differently) be regarded
as Bullwinklings.
> Any other points on them.
The "Pralori" of Fronela cohabitate with the more numerous Uncolings.
They prefer the river, swamp and coastal areas where they and their
amphibic totem beasts have the advantage of terrain, but they are willing
to share. They are excellent boat builders (in order to be able to keep
up with their totemic beasts) and live in small family groups. They hunt
their totemic beasts mainly for rituals, but they prey on all the other
beasts of their habitat. The "Pralori" provide a lot of beaver and otter
furs, they hunt the water fowl as well as stray reindeer happening to
enter their territory.
Their strength as warriors is independent action in difficult terrain.
They make excellent scouts, and their guerilla warfare is a terror even
to warbands of the Kingdom of War - think of the trappers in the US
independence wars, which could reduce a warband (well, regiment) on
the march into a bunch of headlessly fleeing lost men. The "Pralori"
always strike with missiles first: horn bows (made of the antlers of
their totemic beasts), javelins (actually harpoons) and thrown axes
(yes, tomahawks), then they might rush in, slay a couple of unaware
foes, and rush off again, melting into the landscape once they are 30
metres away. For people of their size, they hide and sneak extremely
well. They swim excellently.
> Name of Hsunchen tribe (Eg Aleci, Pralori etc)
"Pralori" as per Genertela Book (again), this time the Wapiti-folk
> Description (in terms of size, habits, eating habits, etc, not
> RW analogues) of the Totemic beast
This beast, while quite tall and heavy, doesn't really compete in size
with the heavy horses of the Loskalmi knights and clibanarii. It behaves
like an oversized deer, which means it lives in family groups rather than
solitary, has roaming solitary stags, feeds on the undergrowth of the
forests in the more pleasant areas of the taiga, and wouldn't survive an
autumn, let alone winter, on Ygg's Isles or in the Porent tundra.
Only the stags have antlers.
> Area(s) where these guys can be found
Tastolar, Gharkor, Easval in Loskalm (and neighbouring Winterwood,
being unwanted guests in either), Dona, Mortasor, southern fringes of
Rathorela, and possibly Charg.
There might be such Hsunchen anywhere in Seshnela, Ralios or west
Maniria where there is forested wilderness left.
> How many of them there are in each of these areas
Once again, use the population numbers of Genertela Book, Fronela chapter,
with a pinch of salt (multiply by 0.8, and allow for a mistake in the order
of 80%).
> Any other points on them.
These Hsunchen are tall, but far from towering, and less powerfully
built than either the Rathori or the northern moose-people mentioned
above. They hunt and collect the fruits of the woods, relying more
heavily on nuts, acorns etc than the moose people. They use no barbed
harpoons since they rarely hunt on lakes, and have no special skill in
boat-building. Instead, they are renowned as runners in difficult
terrain.
They prefer dry, fairly open woodland as a habitat. Mixed pine - beech
forests are their (and their totemic beasts') favorite habitat.
> Name of Hsunchen tribe (Eg Aleci, Pralori etc)
Uncolings
> Description (in terms of size, habits, eating habits, etc, not
> RW analogues) of the Totemic beast
The Reindeer, the wild European variant, not the sad excuses found along
the E6 tied to tent-posts. (Sandy, or other biologists, is this identical
to the Caribou?)
It is about deer-sized (too small to ride upon), both sexes
have very hard antlers suitable to make spear-points which can survive
penetrating even a bear's hide (as opposed to deers' antlers, which are
too soft for this application). Its main diet are the mosses and lichen
of the fjells and the tundra.
> Area(s) where these guys can be found
All along the edge of Valind's Glacier: northern fringes of Winterwood
(including the interior of the larger among Ygg's Isles), Porent,
Tastolar, north Rathorela, northern Erigia, and (split off during the
gray Age, when the Ice receded from Peloria) in north Pent. There might
be an odd pocket of peak-dwelling reindeer people somewhere at the foot
of a glacier or snow-field in the Rockwoods, but this would be likely to
have suffered severely from inbreeding for the last 2-3000 years.
> How many of them there are in each of these areas
As per Genertela Book for Fronela, uncounted for northern Erigia or
North Pent (likely to be as many in either region).
> Any other points on them.
They domesticate a few of their totem beasts to act as beasts of burden
and as decoy for the hunt. Their life-style is closer to (hypothetical)
Praxian foot nomads than to Hsunchen, in that they live mainly on their
totemic beasts plus the yield of gathering efforts. This includes the
hunt for small animals and occasional fishing.
They use ski and simple reindeer-drawn sleighs (largely bundles fixed
on a pair of skis and drawn by two long poles tied to the antlers of
their beasts).
For their life-style, read "The Reindeer People" and "Wolf's Brother"
by Magan Lindholm. Their religious life will be somewhat different,
but the overall impression will catch their essence.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: The Blue Wizard speaks out...
Message-ID: <01HGPWXZR...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 5 Sep 94 03:41:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6034
Oh god. A very big post from friday full of my favourite speculative topics.
you have been warned!
Joerg
=====
>Right Air: ths title might apply to any Earth deity which succeeds to
>tame a Storm god, and the "Right" might be verbal tense. Earth wins over
>Storm, right?
Given that Yelm originally tried to name Umatum by this name, I belive that
Entenkos is and was a Storm Diety.
>The symbols around GW II-1's legs could symbolize air. My new
>interpretation would be plants: Entekos is the deity under whose
>feet plants sprout.
Plants IMO also. I am still believing that II-1 is Dendara, with the following
places on the Gods Wall her cult stations (similar to Yelm the Youth, Elder the
Archer, Sun Lord, Yelm Imperator and so on)
>II-2 to II-5 are the four aspects of womanhood, with Naveria and Lesilla
>somewhat overlapping.
>If Naveria is the goddess of wives, whose wife was she? (The Dara Happan
>emperor's in the story Greg read at Convulsions?)
I think Naveria is actually the wife of Yelm. Given that Dendara is the bright
face of the Earth brightened by Yelm (and Gorgorma is the dark face - look at
the moon for what I describing), Dendara would be the daughter of Yelm and when
Yelm married her in Naveria (IMO this explains why the land goddess Naveria is
seen as the marriage aspect of Dendara) this would fit the myth.
>Ditto for Lesilla, goddess of mothers. Whose mother was she?
Presumably Lesilla was the place where Dendara had her children.
>Lesilla's rune reminds very strongly of Moon: both the half and the
>quarter moon. Plentonius fails to make the Lunar connection.
Mr P. failed to make the Lunar connection because he didn't know of one! No
red moon in 244 ST and the Blue Moon is secret! It wasn't until Thorloss the
scribbler made a study that we even knew of a moon rune.
>[Description about the Entekosiad]
>Possibly
>they are a mixture of both pre-Dara Happan and Flood-time myths, confused
>by later oral tradition.
My feelings on the matter.
> If this is the
> case, does she exist before Aether exists? If she does, she can't be
> an entity of air.
>Only a mother of air (gods) (as well as a mother of moons, which are
>unlikely to have existed before there was a sky, too).
If my theory on Dendara being II-1 is correct, then were is Entekos? I place
her as I-12. This gives Umatum and Entekos *transparent clothing* which nobody
else haves thus indicating that they are air gods.
>DHBE p.45 has the Red Goddess as a granddaughter of Dayzatar, but gives
>no name. Plentonius doesn't give other descendants from Dayzatar than
>Ourania, her daughters, and (perhaps) Pole Star.
>Strange enough that the arch-chauvinist Plentonius admits a mistress...
Perhaps it is an hint of what the original dara happan society was like. The
Ourania is a vigin mistress could indicate that the woman originally had a role
in the bureacracy of Anaxial Dara Happa. Another hint of this kind is the
Imperial Assembly which is based on the Aetheric Assembly of Dayzatar. Not
something we would expect from the Divine Authority of Yelm...
>When Plentonius recounts the fall of Mernita, he mentions a "false sun"
>Sedenya, who crushes down onto her city. Mernita is marked with the old
>(or Pelorian) form of the Moon Rune (according to "The Perfect Sky").
What does this look like to all those who do not have 'The perfect sky'?. Also
Nick identified Naveria as Sedenya.
>We know that a moon crushed down onto northern Peloria - the Blue Moon,
>whose ruins formed the Blue Moon Plateau.
Part of a moon, to be more precise.
>Could this be Plentonius'
>version of this event?
Perhaps. Sedenya has some connotations of fiery powers (P. referes to her as
the sun that comes and goes) which modern annilla does not have.
>Ashrill, the land of Verapur, is shown in the DHBE
>maps as the east shore of the Thunder Delta, southwest of the Blue Moon
>Plateau. Dosvolos, the original land of Mernita, could be covered by
>the remains of the Blue Moon...
The Crown of Mernita was found in Elz Ast!
>> It seems to me that the rune may
>> equally have an origin in the mix of light and earth (afterall, we have
>> Moon Rocks, not Moon Water).
>The same would apply to the planetary deities, the children of Yelm
>and Dendara. Still we have no incling what makes a stellar body a moon.
>Is it the "glow that is not light"?
I think before the Red Moon arose, the word moon was largely a convention and
depended from culture to culture. The blue moon was so known because she was a
moon that was blue and the queen of a very important empire. It is only with
the identification of the Moon Rune that we have gone to thinking that all
moons have the Lunar Rune.
>I doubt that the Red Goddess has water connections other than Annilla or
>the Young Elementals, or later marriages into local pantheons. Annilla's
>Blue Moon is the moon of water, as its colour indicates, too.
I was thinking of Darkness and Light or something like that. Of course the
Lunar Rune may not even be a element at all given the association with balnce,
time and illusion. It may be that the only reason why the Red Moon is such is
that the Orlanth myth of her being a wound in orlanth's body is correct. This
of course menas that the original rite of creating the Red Goddess involved a
means of wounding Orlanth.
>The identification of Entekos with Molanni was not made by Plentonius,
>but by us. It seems obvious. Is it?
A valid point that even I concede.
>Plentonius painfully fails to mention Vadrus, of whom we are told
>earlier that he was a noted enemy of the Dara Happan Sun Gods.
I think Vadrus is Gods Wall I-13. Given that he was killed before time, P.
might have had to name him as Umatum.
>> I concede this as unlikely, but I would ask whether the
>> beastriders might not have reached Dara Happa prior to the battle as
>> mercenaries in the employ of the Theyalans who had been around since the
>> 1st century reawakening old spirits.
>Maybe Molanni was adopted by the Horse Rider Warlords as a weapon against
>the Theyalans.
Perhaps after the war in the sky when Kargzant was weakened.
>> But if
>> the tripolis had a unified mythos already, why would this be needed?
>To ascend to the throne for the first time, Khordavu had had to kick
>out Upon Hilltops aka Eusibus, son of Shargash.
And also note that he had to acknowledge Alkoth as one of the seven Anaxialite
cities. Perhaps nobody knew what the cities were before this time? This could
mean that P.'s maps of the cities in the first map of Dara Happa (during
Murharzarm's reign) is a fake as it does not correspond to the last stable sky.
>> So...my thought is that the tripolis did not have a unified mythos, that
>> each city and its surrounding area had its own unique mythos that
>> Plentonius merged together.
I agree that each city had its own ruling deity, which was the one true
Emperor of Dara Happa (unless a Warlord had occupied that position). The
names Tripolis, Dekapolis or Septoli indicate a non-centralistic
structure rather than one central authority, maybe (like the Celestial
Court) a gremium of rulers (not unlike the council of egi which makes
up Takenegi, or the Red Emperor).
>> Yelm, therefore, is a manufactured deity!
>Yes, but differently so.
I should really explain my earlier posting and state that my belief is that
the Dara happan cult of Yelm is actually worshipping the Sun through the paths
of Murharzarm. The nomads of Pent originally worshipped Kargzant who would now
appear to be Yelm Kargzant. I am thinking that the Solar Orb is too powerful
to be worshipped directly and that all the Sun cults we have are actually
worshipping their avatars (Ehilm in KoL, Murharzarm in Dara Happa, Victorious
Zenith in Bliss in Ignorance and perhaps Solf in Teshnos - Nils?).
>Even the name Yelm seems to have been adopted from the Theyalans, who
>might have found it elsewhere - did they ever contact Kralorela?
They seem to have done. The Cult of Dendara is found in both places but I'm
thinking that there has been sporadic contact between the two civilizations
like China went to India for its buddhist texts.
>The
>Waertagi could have transported them after they had settled in the
>Rightarm Islands.
The Waertagi would have mentioned Ehilm.
>Or Yelm was the name of the sun in the drowned Spike
>civilisation somehow surviving into Theyalan myth, possibly via the
>aldryami.
Possible.
>The closest thing to "Yelm" the Dara Happans offer is "Yuthu", meaning
>"god". The first time that the element "elm" appears in the emperors'
>names is with Wanthanelm (epithet "the Cursed", btw), Mahzanelm,
>Erzanelm, Khorzanelm, all of Khordavu's dynasty. It coexists with
>"davu", probably another gentile deity.
BTW Darve seems to mean foe of. We have a general Darvedekorgos who would thus
be Foe of Deshkorgos, a fourth row god in the Gods Wall.
>Maybe a linguistical analysis of the emperors' names will yield more
>hints - I feel that ever since KoS Greg pays attention to linguistics.
certainly.
>> and Shargash (or the earlier name Nemarthshar) in the south.
>Good linguistical connection. Shargash's identification with Alkoth seemed
>a bit artificial to me when I first encountered it. He seems too much
>like Orlanth to me...
Shar means Red. We know that much. Any idea on what Gash means? However
Shargash appears to have been a mortal human during the reign of Murharzarm.
Nils
====
>Sandy writes:
>> I suspect giant eagles in the Shan Shan
>> side of the Wastes, since the so-called "Eagle Hsunchen" (i.e., wind
>> children) are known there, so presumably there's eagles, too.
>Am I the only one to find Wind Children suspicious creatures? They
>have feathered wings and are known as eagle hsunchen in Kralorela.
>This would indicate bird/sky connections, but they are in fact air
>related. This is weird.
I think the eagle hsunchen and the Wind children are two different cultures.
The Players book in G:CotHW indicates so. The eagle hsuchen might be that of
the bird rebels and the worshippers of Veng who were driven from Dara happa by
the Jenarong Gamatae.
The Kralori may not notice depending on how interested they are in Hsunchen
Lore. Certainly the runespell to get wings would transform the arms into
wings. I'm thinking that the Windchildren are the Sky Spears of Genert's army.
--Peter Metcalfe
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
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---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: The Blue Wizard strikes again...
Message-ID: <01HGQ728K...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 5 Sep 94 08:32:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6037
Martin
======
>Gigantism is common on islands. Dunno anything about the
>Shetlands--maybe the first settlers wiped out any gigantic fauna,
>as the Maori did to the Moa.
I hate to be a pedant here. The Moa we show to naive foreigners the great big
one died out some time before the Maoris came. The ones that the maoris
exterminated were somewhat smaller and you would have been lucky if it reached
your shoulder. Also take back your vile implication that islands of New
Zealand is comparable to the Shetlands. The two main islands are more on the
scale of the British isles and much more pleasant.
Glen
====
> Needless to say (but I'm saying it anyway), I hope my
>campaign doesn't come to a bad ending. Then again, page 212
>of KoS has her living until 1630 instead of getting killed
>in 1626. Any ideas on what is most likely correct in the
>"official" timeline?
My attempts at exigesis make me think that Minaryths hostory is more acurate
than the history in the CHDP. He was writing from year to year on the most
important thing that happened that year. Using similar techniques I have
deduced that for the real history in Dragon Pass.
1) Moraides dies in 1631 ST. the scribe wrote 'lived' where he should have
written 'ruled'.
2) Neither Moraides, Sartar nor Tarkalor were ever Kings of Dragon Pass.
3) Ilaro died in attempting to become the King of Dragon pass. As a result in
tarsh, Coitus interruptus is known as Illaroism.
4) Any idea that the Ilaro dynasty of Tarsh practiced a sacrifical reign of
seven years is complete crap. For an idea of what really happened,
calculate how old Marofdul must have been at the time of his fathers death.
5) Part six of the Argrath Saga is actually a fusion of two seperate phases.
One pulls down the Red Moon and the other is connected to another fragment
in the book. Ask yourself this: Why does Argrath send for help from the
six directions when His gods are already walking with him?
6) The Feathered Queen of the Kerofini temple is not the same as the feathered
horse queen. To become King of Dragon Pass does not entail marrying them.
7) Argrath had nothing to do with the Awakening of the Brown Dragon.
By Argrath, I mean Argrath Venharlson who later became Prince Argrath in 1631
ST.
Nick
====
>> Have a look at the six wounding errors of Antirius and see if you can
>> identify the people involved. Why did Plentonius leave that in?
>As Plentonius was compiling and not inventing *most* of the material in the
>Glorious ReAscent, I'd assume it was a widely-disseminated myth. Probably
>from Yuthuppa rather than Raibanth, but that's just my opinion based on the
>functional division, where this seems a "priestly" rather than "imperial"
>story. So it would have devalued the GR if he'd left it out ("Where's my
>favourite story about Antirius, eh? This book's not very good!").
Valid reasoning. I wonder how many other 'priestly' stroies there are that
have been dropped by Imperial Mr P. BTW, I must say that yuthuppa is
'priestly' because Buserian blessed there, and he appears to have worshipped
Dayzatar rather than Yelm. I doubt if there were any major temples of
Antirius there. I suspect the 6WE actually came from a procopius type
person within the Imperial Hiearchy (as in writing the secret history).
>Mistress Calm is *actually* Mistress Calm. But, in your terms, she has more
>similarities to Molanni than to Brastalos:
>: MISTRESS CALM: This is the Mistress of the Calm Sky who appears cloaked
>: in wispy but shadowing clouds decorating her benign appearance. Her
>: influence calms even the dry chaparral, making life possible where she
>: rests. Thus she can support three units.
hmm. The reason I originally suspected that she might be Brastalos was that
the Doldrums often pass over Prax (during the 1st and 2nd age before the GL's
screwed it up). Mistress Calm has a cooling effect which indicates the sea
whereas the worship of Molanni has within her stagnant air, associated with
drought (Daga). I suspect she might have some function in inhibiting frosts
which seems to be out of character for the Mistress Calm here.
>> Dendara is a planet according to the copper tablets, but does not appear
>> in the sky today.
>I'm trying to persuade Greg that when Yelm was always in the sky, it was
>appropriate for his wife Dendara to appear gloriously radiant at his side.
Not according to the Kralori version. She remains in heaven where Gorgorma
walks up and they play chess or night long.
>When Yelm went to Hell, it was only fitting that she follow her lord and
>master.
She did, but she came back during the time of Anaxial. see the copper plates.
Perhaps she left him to stop him moping and feeling sorry for himself? She
seems much more complex in Greg's mind than the vaccous brick everybody
assumes.
>Now, she follows exactly the same path, at the same time, as Yelm;
>thus she is never visible. The terrible alternative would make it possible
>for Dendara, the model of wifely fidelity, to go out at night without her
>husband: surely an unthinkable occurrence!
Not quite. She stays at home, while her husband lives it up with his
hellraising. Somewhat more Dara Happan.
>[Extremely silly theory of Gloranthan history deleted]
>All of these factors are, of course, widely attested in Gloranthan myth.
>("And if you'll believe that...")
...then have some of this nice fish from tharndenero I caught for you...
--Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: USER...@um.cc.umich.edu
Subject: Thoughts on Toilets
Message-ID: <3822...@um.cc.umich.edu>
Date: 4 Sep 94 13:22:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6038
Robert mused about sewage...
Picture a village (or town, or stead, or even a small city
) with the early morning mists rising from the fields and
grounds around it. Even before the sun rose a stream of figures
,hastly bundled against the morning chill, can be seen filing
out into the land around the city and heading for semi-hidden
spots separated by a few meters they go about their morning
ablutions... (and suddenly swarms of raiding Morokanth decend
upon the unsuspecting and defensless villager)
In this way you can keep the town clean and put the good
stuff back in the fields. But don't forget to take your spear
In a...Kralorela (yeah)...poeple collect nightsoil and carry
it to the fields (what! when it could walk itself, keeps idle
hands busy I suppose).
In those "large places where lots of people get together"
there can be a big problem as each little group keeps their
own space clean, but empties the buckets into the streets
of vacant lots. Piles of trash get pretty big, pretty fast.
Useful for those Lanbril cultists to make it onto the roof.
I havn't much to say about Celtic sanatation.
Josh
---------------------
From: Arg...@aol.com
Subject: Mostly about the dismal science
Message-ID: <940904233...@aol.com>
Date: 5 Sep 94 03:30:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6043
Comments & Quibbles on Gerald's Trade Notes:
Yeah, I know, Gerald, you prefaced the notes by saying to ignore
them where we disagree, but I'm hoping to make some actually
constructive criticisms here.
I don't think it's safe to ignore the nonhumans in a broad
view of Genertelan economics, and Gerald doesn't, despite his
disclaimer. The elder races pursue economics from a different
mindset, but they do interact with humans, and it is important to
understand their goals, as well.
Take the Gemborg dwarves as an example. Obviously, they're
Openhandists, to be dealing with humans at all--or are they?.
They could pursue some other policy, not yet a heresy. What do
they want from humans, and why? I've had a hard time with this
question, and haven't come up with an answer that satisfies me.
Gerald mentions trollish products at a couple of places.
Aside from cantharides, what are they? Silk, I'd wager, though
not as fine as the Kralorelan variety. Gems, as one would expect
from a subterranean race, and they would not value visually-
beautiful gems as much as humans would. Insect products aside
from silk could include carapaces, honey, royal jelly, acids, ham
beetles ("taste like chicken"), and paper (from wasps). There
are also fungus products, like the black elf potions. Perhaps
the giant flowers of the Vale of Flowers are considered valuable
elsewhere.
Aldryami could "trade" their specially-grown items for
pretty things from elsewhere, including from other elf forests.
They don't need metal, except in emergencies, and then they would
use those "made" items with great distaste. Rather, they grow
their metal by planting arrow or axe bushes on patches of ground
with high copper or bronze ore content. This takes a heck of a
long time, but fits the Aldryami way of life, where growing is
normal for everything (even their "books" are grown) and making
is abhorrent.
Truestone: I have to disagree that the export of this
substance from Prax is common enough to have any economic
significance. To pick a number out of a hat, I'd say that 2D6-7
pieces are exported in any one year. That is, in most years none
leave Prax. Sure, those that do are worth up to 1000 silver per
point of divine magic stored in them, and blank pieces are worth
maybe 100,000 silver, but only 1 stone out of 1000 found is
blank.
I think the Praxians export herd beasts, almost always those
which have been captured in raids. This includes the Pol Joni's
cattle, which Praxians grudgingly admit are Eiritha beasts. But
what's an Alticamelus rider going to do with a captured Ostrich
or Bolo Lizard? If he doesn't eat it immediately, selling it to
a gullible farmer-type is a good idea.
Maniria: is this really the third richest area in Genertela,
ahead of Fronela and Seshnela? Is that based on total GNP,
median family wealth, or what? There are rich parts of Maniria,
sure, but there are many more poor parts: Wenelia, Sartar,
Grazelands (vendref especially). Fronela's population is more
than twice Maniria's, Seshnela has almost as many as the Holy
Country, and Ralios's human population is greater than the entire
population of Maniria. I would pick Fronela as having the third
highest GRP (Gross Regional Product), followed by Ralios on the
strength of the Safelstran states, followed by Seshnela, then
Maniria. Median incomes might provide a tougher call, but surely
the wealth of the West is at least comparable to that of Theyalan
lands.
Pent: do Pentans trade their sacred horses? I don't think
so. The "modern" tribes trade cattle, but horses are saved for
sacred gifts to cement a treaty. The traditionalist tribes don't
have anything besides hunted hides to trade, so they take slaves
and raid for trade goods.
Kralorela: is Lokarnos big there? According to G:CHW,
Kralorela follows the Eastern pantheon, which (according to GoG)
does not include Lokarnos. So their merchants do not have a cult
to call their own, but that doesn't seem to be a big handicap.
I also think that Kralorelans, who follow their own way in so
much, would have their own coinage, and that it would be state-
sponsored. They might even have paper money, depending on which
period in historical China they are analogous to.
Coins: I don't think trade god cultists should be able to
Detect Debased or Clipped Coinage for free at will. Maybe DDCC
is a cult special spirit magic spell? ;-)
Altogether, not many comments on what was 26 pages of
material when I printed it out. It not only goes into the
directory of permanently-saved items, it got printed out, hole-
punched, and put into a notebook! Many thanks, Gerald.
And in replies to Friday's daily, which I finally got on Sunday:
David Dunham in X-RQ-ID: 6006, replying to ian i. gorlick said:
>>Moose hsunchen should be regarded as somewhat more excitable
>>than Storm Bull berserkers with even less concern for personal
>>safety.
>This raises the question of whether hsunchen are just like their
>totems. I think not. They do bear many resemblences, but they
>are first and foremost people, and secondly omnivorous hunter-
>gatherers. Moose are neither.
You'd be disagreeing with Greg Stafford, then. Look at
Question 32, on page 58 of the RQ-Con Compendium, where it said
that Opossum Hsunchen carry their young in pouches.
Re: Nick "Velikovsky" Brooke:
And when worlds collide,
said George Powell to his bride,
I'm gonna give you some terrible thrills,
like a ... science fiction double feature ...
--Martin
---------------------
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Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Thaw of Jonatela
Message-ID: <940903001...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 3 Sep 94 00:16:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6018
Joerg and me:
> >> Timms thawed earlier, in 1597 (induced by the Lunars).
> > [...] why do you say the thaw was induced by the Lunars?
> > G:G blames Dona boatmen, after all. Though this could cover people from
> > Eastpoint egged on the Lunars, I suppose.
> Something along that line. Eastpoint was the first city to have outside
> contact (the Lunar moon-boat expedition of 1589, see Jar-eel, p.34).
> [...]
Yeah, but there seems no direct Lunar agency in the thawing of Timms. I'm
not quite sure if you having reason to suppose there is, or you're just
blaming them indirectly.
elsewhere:
> I was talking about mind-affecting spells, something the Lunars dominate.
Get thee to a punnery.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Red-shifted deer.
Message-ID: <940903003...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 3 Sep 94 00:39:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6019
Sandy persists in His Own Private Nomenclature, in particular for
C. canadensis, which no-one would get peeved or confused about if they
were refered to as "wapiti":
> > Apparently you know little about Cervus elaphus. They are
> > HUGE and shaggy, with needle-sharp horns, excellent swimmers, and
> > they can be mean. Bull elk (they're not called "bucks") make a sound
> > during the rut that can only be described as a roar.
Joerg:
> If this (and your cthulhuid story) is the case, I don't think we have
> this beast over here in Germany. True, the red deer does something
> which is described (in German) as "roehren", which seems to be somewhat
> diminutive for "to roar", but while looking somewhat royal, the red deer
> is too skittish to be considered majestic.
I knew Joerg and I had agreed too long on this thread: the Monarch of the
Glen, not majestic? Maybe the Teutonic types have some other species too,
C. scitticus. ;-) Granted, they don't go around charging emplaced artillery
positions, but maybe that just makes them non-stupid. Well, not all _that_
stupid.
> What I mean is that the beasts of Ygg's isles are the subarctic species
> of large deer with spoon-like antlers a sub-average-sized man can walk
> under.
Is this plausible for a bunch of small, isolated islands? Not many Alces
alces on the shetlands, are there?
Alex.
---------------------
Alex.
---------------------
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
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---------------------
X-RQ-ID: Extro
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Vinga, Bless Earth
Message-ID: <940905192...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 5 Sep 94 19:23:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6059
Alison Place:
> For instance, I
> don't think that Vinga would be scared to marry if she met a man who
> pleased her sufficiently. He would just have to take her as she is,
> with a propensity for independence, self-reliance and doing what she
> thinks fit for her.
Let's all recall that while the Orlanthi "norm" is for the husband to
take the "lead" role in marriage (wife lives in husband's stead,
children are of his clan, etc), it's not hardwired that way, and the
roles explitly _can_ be reversed. BTW, David D., I assume that what
you say about Ralian wives in re: geasa also hold true for "Esrolian"
type marriages (or "Wife and underhusband", whatever those ones are
called), and equally doesn't hold for the wife in such cases.
> To reply to Alex Ferguson (5956), our festival ended up on Aldrya's day
> in a roundabout way. Ian mixed up Bless Crops, or Bless Earth, or
> whatever it's called, with Sunripen, which must be cast on that day.
Due to the vagueness of the RQ3 cult writeup ("spring", indeed: is this
a RQ-Earth escapee, Sandy?), I'm not sure whether Sunripen is supposed
to be cast on Voria's HHD, Freeze/Disorder/Sea (first day of Sea
season), or on Flamal's HHD, Water/Fertility/Sea. Could sensibly be
either really.
Part of my motivation in querying this is that I don't see Aldrya ::
agriculture as being a very natural connection. Possible, granted, as
part of the planting ritual may be "placating" the earth spirits on
whom you're about to inflict this hideous plague of monoculture. This
holds less true of Flamal, though, as he's less woodland-specific, even
if the elves are his main (organised) worshippers.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Don't tell a soul...
Message-ID: <940905200...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 5 Sep 94 20:01:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6060
Sam Shirley leaks:
> Chaosium's official internet address in chao...@aol.com. Please do not
> give out the chaosium@[censored] address.
I hope this wasn't a Big Secret, given that it's just been posted to (and
indeed from) a mailing list, which is in turn gatewayed to The Whole Internet
by news...
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Potholing.
Message-ID: <940906023...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Sep 94 02:31:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6062
Arg...@aol.com makes potshots, not contributions:
> Alex fumbles his Animal Lore roll in reply to Joerg's statement--
> >> What I mean is that the beasts of Ygg's isles are [moose]
> >Is this plausible for a bunch of small, isolated islands? Not
> >many Alces alces on the shetlands, are there?
> Gigantism is common on islands.
True, but fairly irrelevant. What we have(n't) here is a large, nomadic,
herd-living animal, in a place on the tiny side, in a northerly and dismal
enough place to be on the less-than-optimally-lush side. Furthermore, the
issue is whether a given animal should be there in the first place, not
whether the local version is of unusual size. If the adjoining bit of
Fronela (I forget how far off-coast it is) has moose on it, then that's
somewhat different.
> Dunno anything about the Shetlands
It's the place with the gigantic ponies.
> >Bryan J. Maloney asserts:
> >> First, Bless Earth is necessary to merely get a "normal" crop
> >>in Genertela.
> At the Gloranthan lore auction, Greg and Sandy said something
> pretty close to this.
Guess that gives about a 40% chance of "something close to this" being
True, then.
Nick Eden:
> And its worth remembering that the flood myth turns up everywhere.
Should we also mention that Being Nailed to a Death Rune is also one of the
Monomyth's Gateway steps of a HeroQuest?
> Fortuneately I'm not a Jung or Cambell acolyte. but I know
> a man who is....
Who, Greg? Partly, but let's not forget FGS is also a fully paid-up
shamanist, and so actually Believes This Stuff (or some thereof).
Joerg on Vinga, and some cultic pot-shots of his own:
> With the myths, I always want a
> one true version for myself, and a malleable basic set to adapt for all
> the local variations.
What practicable difference is there between the "true" myths and the others?
If it makes a difference, why would anyone go for the false ones? If it
doesn't, why do you need to know?
> This is our inheritance from Cults of Prax, I'm afraid. CoP did the
> marvelous job of explaining both the local phenomena and some world-wide
> effects of the cults, in much more detail than we do now for Vinga, but
> it failed to say which bits were open to variation.
Given the appearance of the words "of Prax" on the cover, one might say
all of it. Granted this is to simplify, as it tends to veer erratically
between the local and the global in places.
> Also (Alex, reply in private, if at all!) the apparent fixation to one
> deity per cult seems to stem from this supplement.
What a shock. The first thing to describe cults in any detail is the
source of their "fixation".
> The tendency to blame the fixed and uniform cult structure of CoP (and
> even RQ3) on the God Learners is just an attempt to incorporate this
> rules construct into the world. IMO it is misplaced for Prax, a God
> Learner forgotten place if there are any.
Prax is a pretty small place, though, certainly in terms of population, and
cultural distinctiveness. Within a given Nation or Tribe, I'd be surprised
if there was more variation per cult than the odd spell. Over a wider scope,
it becomes much more questionable whether one cult writeup realistically
serves for, say, Ralios and Prax.
> As to Vinga's identity: If you try to apply linguistics
She's a lighthouse?
> Vinga seems to be a likely candidate to be the (twin?) sister of Vingkot
Makes sense to me. Maybe KoS doesn't give her genealogy because she's
"only" a hero, who established the Woman's Warrior Path among the early
Orlanthi, rather than a Real God(TM).
> Look forward to our next meeting - this time archery. You had your
> chance in the contest of swords (well, clubs).
I'll bring my scoped Winchester.
> > the Monarch of the Glen, not majestic?
> Most of all, we lack the scenery here on the Cimbrian peninsula to
> make him look majestic.
Cimbrian, Cambrian, Cumbrian, is there a God Learner unification to be made
here? They all seem to have red deer, too. Yup, granted you need the
scenery to Pose against.
> Routinely entering the woods with bow and arrow
> (for archery tournaments only, hunting must be done with firearms in
> Germany) makes one think of it as prey rather than as a monarch, too.
Deer are hunted and indeed, culled, here too, but it doesn't unduly damage
the perception.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: hsunchen! Bless you.
Message-ID: <940906052...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Sep 94 05:22:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6063
> ian i. gorlick said
> >Moose hsunchen should be regarded as somewhat more excitable than Storm
> >Bull berserkers with even less concern for personal safety.
David Dunham:
> This raises the question of whether hsunchen are just like their totems. I
> think not. They do bear many resemblences, but they are first and foremost
> people, and secondly omnivorous hunter-gatherers. Moose are neither.
I think of hsunchen as having broadly two kinds of attitudes towards their
totems. One group beleives the they and their animal are essentially the
same people, who just coincidentally have differing numbers of legs. The
Telmori seem to think this way. Others draw a greater distinction, saying
instead that these animals have special souls, which may be the "recycled"
souls of their answers, or that they are some kind of tutelatory spirit.
In both cases I think the hsunchen regard the behaviour and characteristics
of the totem as Good, and as being Just Like Us.
Where the totem animal is also the main prey of a group, these attitudes may
be significantly different, but I don't think this relationship is usual for
hsunchen.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: (C) [TM] <R>
Message-ID: <940906052...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Sep 94 05:25:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6064
> Copyright August 94 by Joerg Baumgartner (is this ok with you, Alex?).
You're getting better, but mentioning the century is traditional, and
putting it in the middle of an article is a bit confusing.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Re: Some ideas on Rune Magic
Message-ID: <940906054...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Sep 94 05:49:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6065
Curtis Shenton suggests:
> A worshipper sacrifices POW into a pool of Rune Power that they
> can draw upon later. But the only spells they can cast are those they
> have earned through various minihero quests. For example for an Orlanthi
> to get Darkwalk they need to steal something from a Kygor Liter
> worshipper.
This is rather like what Henk suggested, I think. I certainly agree with
the HQ component, though I saw it as being more of a ritual one. I like
the practice HQ idea too, though, especially for "subcultic" spells for
which you'd have to prove yourself worthy (more so than usual, that is)
such as the aforementioned Darkwalk. However, I also think the act is
significant enough that it should require POW to be sacrificed, which should
probably be specific to that magic.
In fact, I think the existing RQ rules have sacrificing for a spell the
first time about right. What I dislike is all this yucky business with
"taking several uses" of a spell, as we'd say in the Bad Old Days when
I played D&D. Not just from a MGF point of view, but because doing the
same heroquest again doesn't make sense, Gloranthanically. As the old
Esrolian proverb says, "The same woman cannot swim in the River twice".
> And some
> spells you may just get access to because becoming an initiate of the
> cult attunes you to some of the basics of the gods power. I suspect all
> Orlanthi would be able to cast Cloud Call under this system for example.
I don't know about that, but it should be remembered that initiation is
an HQ in itself, so the possibility at least exists...
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Molanni
Message-ID: <940906055...@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 6 Sep 94 05:59:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6066
Nick Eden:
> For the next issue of my fanzine I'm developing a Molani cult.
> The central idea is that she is a wonderful noble self sacrificing
> goddess who sacrificed her chastity to Yelm, her people's enemy, so that
> Yelm and Orlanth would have something in common.
[...]
> Naturally this isn't the way the story is traditionally told in Dragon
> Pass. This is the Molani that the Lunar missionaries tell the people
> about in captured lands.
I think Nick's basically Correct, here, though I think the Lunars would
soft-pedal it a bit more. At the risk of straying into the
Entekos/Molanni debate, I'd think the Lunars would borrow freely from
the former's cult when constructing the latter's, adapting it to fit
Molanni's mythology and any existing Orlanthi worship of her.
> Up to the foundation of this cult, about 100-200 years ago, as a means of
> annoying the Orlanthi that the Lunars were competing with to the south, I
> don't think that Molani would have been worshiped in any way.
Not quite true, I don't think. I think she may have received
propitiatory worship, as well as being invoked by nasty types on their
enemies. Nothing like a proper "cult" though, I'd agree.
Alex.
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: The Blue Wizard strikes in vain
Message-ID: <H.ea.Tsr...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 6 Sep 94 06:03:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6067
The Blue Wizard Peter Metcalfe in X-RQ-ID: 6037
> My attempts at exigesis make me think that Minaryths history is more acurate
> than the history in the CHDP. He was writing from year to year on the most
> important thing that happened that year.
Not necessarily. IMO he collected his memories and connected each event or
cluster of events to a date. In doing so, he might have associated events
that occured in one season to one entry, but events three seasons apart
can well be confused with events in separate years, especially if viewed
in hindsight.
> 1) Moraides dies in 1631 ST. The scribe wrote 'lived' where he should have
> written 'ruled'.
This agrees roughly with the Sartar section of CHDP. Pharandros is
mentioned as king for 1632, so no problem there. However, for the 1625
events the Sartar section of CHDP blames Moirades, not Pharandros.
> 2) Neither Moraides, Sartar nor Tarkalor were ever Kings of Dragon Pass.
I have tried to convince Peter in private that this is nonsense, but
I'd appreciate some help by others doing so in private.
> 3) Illaro died in attempting to become the King of Dragon pass. As a result in
> tarsh, Coitus interruptus is known as Illaroism.
Illaro died as part of the seven-year-king ritual introduced by the
bloody earth cult of Old Tarsh. Their cult seems to combine worship
of Maran Gor and Kero Fin in that they use the destructive earth aspects
of Maran Gor in battle, yet they also receive fertility from this worship
through the sacrifice of their sacred kings _or their challengers_. Maybe
we have to invent the male subcult of the sacrificial king for the earth
cultists as the bearer of Fertility and Death. A very different form of
Orlanth Rex...
According to the currently prevalent theory about the demise of the
Pharaoh, the old Esrolite Earth worship had a similar, but annual, ritual,
which had been taken upon himself by Belintar (who thereby became the
reusable Year King and de facto ruler of Esrolia), until he was slain
irreversibly in one of these annual sacrifices (1616) by Jar-eel. Jar-eel
could use the proven methods of her quasi-ancestress Hon-eel who did the
same to the last Illaro king of Tarsh. It isn't recorded whether Palashee
Long-axe took up this custom again, but considering his origin, it is
highly likely, and unlikely that anyone could best him.
For a non-Gloranthan version of this kind of sacrificial kingship read
Poul and Karen Anderson's "King of Ys" series.
> 4) Any idea that the Ilaro dynasty of Tarsh practiced a sacrifical reign of
> seven years is complete crap. For an idea of what really happened,
> calculate how old Marofdul must have been at the time of his fathers death.
Since we have no date of birth, and marriage among Orlanthi occurs between
age 15 and age 20, Marofdul could have been just 18 years younger than his
father.
> 5) Part six of the Argrath Saga is actually a fusion of two seperate phases.
> One pulls down the Red Moon and the other is connected to another fragment
> in the book. Ask yourself this: Why does Argrath send for help from the
> six directions when His gods are already walking with him?
To reenact the monster-slaying quest, in which the Storm gods always
summoned help from all directions.
> 6) The Feathered Queen of the Kerofini temple is not the same as the feathered
> horse queen. To become King of Dragon Pass does not entail marrying them.
Another bit of wild speculation I try to hammer out of Peter's mailings.
The Kero Fin temple would not have a _feathered_ queen. Peter seems to
ignore p.113 of KoS, where it is stated that the leader of the Grazer
wives' cult (La-ungariant in her aspect as horse, i.e. Arandayla) went
deep into the earth and returned with powers alien to the Solar horse
people. These powers were the powers of Kero Fin, whose avatar the
Feathered Horse Queen had become in her heroquest. The former avatar,
Sorana Tor, had been changed to Maran Gor and could no longer grant
the fertility of the kingdom after Hon-eel had stolen these powers for
the Lunars.
> 7) Argrath had nothing to do with the Awakening of the Brown Dragon.
> By Argrath, I mean Argrath Venharlson who later became Prince Argrath in 1631
> ST.
This includes two statements of Peter: the first statement he makes is
that Argrath wasn't one of the seven dancers. Given that Argrath has
a reputation to be a dragonfriend, and versed in EWF magics, he would be
a likely candidate to participate in this ritual. As CHDP says, some of
them prayed (e.g. Minaryth Purple), some of them concentrated (Orlaront),
and some of them killed. Garrath Sharpsword of Pavis seems the ideal
candidate for the latter category.
However, Peter goes even further and denies any friendly connection
between Argrath and both Minaryth and Orlaront prior to his enthronement.
Peter argues that Minaryth was known as a staunch supporter of Kallyr in
the 1613 rebellion, and that both Minaryth and Orlaront are mentioned
as Kallyr's companions in the 1625 short LBQ.
IMO this only indicates that both Minaryth and Orlaront are good Sartarite
patriots who lend a hand to whoever tries to free the land.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Trade notes
Message-ID: <H.ea.6_l...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 6 Sep 94 06:43:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6068
Martin Crim comments & quibbles on Gerald's Trade Notes in X-RQ-ID: 6043
> Take the Gemborg dwarves as an example. Obviously, they're
> Openhandists, to be dealing with humans at all--or are they?.
They are documented as the only part of the Decamony to maintain
friendly ties to the declared apostates of Greatway and surrounding
areas during the Second Council and Nysalor's reign in Kethaela.
IMO this makes them quite openhanded for that era. Since dwarves are
long-lived and stubborn, they still might be.
> They could pursue some other policy, not yet a heresy. What do
> they want from humans, and why?
> Gerald mentions trollish products at a couple of places.
> Silk, I'd wager, though not as fine as the Kralorelan variety.
Spider silk, possibly, for ropes and working cloth (sails, God
Forgot parachutes...)
> Gems, as one would expect
> from a subterranean race, and they would not value visually-
> beautiful gems as much as humans would. Insect products aside
> from silk could include carapaces, honey, royal jelly, acids, ham
> beetles ("taste like chicken"), and paper (from wasps). There
> are also fungus products, like the black elf potions.
I doubt that the trolls trade much foodstuff (gems included) away,
except in exchange for more or tastier foodstuff. Troll-human trade seems
to be a risky business to both sides involved, and Dagori Inkarth is as
backwater for traders as is Prax. Adari and Pavis are the main trade
centres for the whole region. Kethaela and Ralios might have more
regular trade contacts. In the Lunar Empire, trade with trolls would
occur more civilized, too. Ignorance probably buys trollkin regularly
from Koromondol.
> I think the Praxians export herd beasts, almost always those
> which have been captured in raids.
Plus the weakest of their own type of beast, to keep the herds healthy.
> Maniria: is this really the third richest area in Genertela,
> ahead of Fronela and Seshnela? Is that based on total GNP,
> median family wealth, or what?
If there is any unit able to measure wealth, it would be the Lunar
"Taxable Wealth Before Exemptions", which would include nobles' property,
privileges etc which usually aren't taxed. To compare populations, TWBE
could be divided by head count, although there still is the question
which heads to count. If the Lunar slave population or the Ramalian,
Tanisoran, Jonatelan or Kingdom of War serfs are included in the population
count, this average is lowered considerably.
> Pent: do Pentans trade their sacred horses? I don't think
> so.
Liek the Praxians, I think they'd be willing to part with the weaker
specimen, to keep the breed pure. And like the Praxians they'd be
more willing to trade raided beasts (probably after having used them
for breeding).
> Kralorela: is Lokarnos big there?
He certainly has no trade monopoly, as the example of a certain
trade buckles salesman shows.
> According to G:CHW,
> Kralorela follows the Eastern pantheon, which (according to GoG)
> does not include Lokarnos. So their merchants do not have a cult
> to call their own, but that doesn't seem to be a big handicap.
They can claim the current emperor as one of their number, so
there is little need for a special deity. Godunya's bridges are
a manifestation of his Communication aspect as well.
> Altogether, not many comments on what was 26 pages of
> material when I printed it out. It not only goes into the
> directory of permanently-saved items, it got printed out, hole-
> punched, and put into a notebook! Many thanks, Gerald.
I can only add my voice to the chorus of praises.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: oops...
Message-ID: <940906071...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 6 Sep 94 08:18:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6069
> From RuneQuest-Request@glorantha Tue Sep 6 09:16 MET 1994
> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 09:15:25 +0200
> Message-Id: <940906071...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
> From: RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
> To: Rune...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
> Reply-To: Rune...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
> Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 06 Sep 1994, part 1
> Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland
> Content-Return: Prohibited
> Precedence: junk
> Content-Type: text
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Hyalorings and other proto-Pentans
Message-ID: <H.ea.QKu...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 6 Sep 94 08:23:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6073
Peter Metcalfe, the Blue Wizard, in X-RQ-ID: 6023
> What really puzzles me is that the Hyalorings are a seperate tribe from the
> Jenarong Horsefolk. I can understand that the Hyalorings were the closest to
> the first council and that their myths of the origin of horses would be taken
> as gospel.
> The Dara happan myth is entirely different, given that the Jenarong called the
> Warlords Gamatae suggests that they were descended from the Nivorahings
> (Gamatae <-- Gamaratae). Also Jenerong gets the Sandals of Protection from
> Nivorah which suggests that the Dara happans are correct.
DHBE answers this. Map 1 describes the Dawn Age population of Peloria,
and has the area of Saird circled in and the note "? Theoretical Home"
inside. Saird was the land of Nivorah, and the logical origin of the
Hyalorings.
The Hirenmador nation is shown to live in Henjari, Vonlath and southern
Kostaddi, the current Hyalorings sit in Darjiin and Doblia, a tribe called
Veshtargos (described as cannibals in Vuranostrum's aka Leaps over Walls'
reign) occupies Esvuthil, and a nation called Lenshis occupies Dikoria
and the Darsen Hills. There is a nation called Lendarshis around Lake
Oronin, and one called Kashis in the lower Arcos valley. Towards the Redlands
in the upper Arcos valley dwells a nation called Ungariong, and on that
region of the Arcos "Starlight Ancestors" are marked - Vettebbe?
The Redlands and Jarasan seem to be quite empty - similar to the Wastes
before the Battle of Necklace Horse.
> In many ways this begins to parallel all the stories of the creation of man I
> have seen. The Galanin are descended from Lofak, the Jenarong are from Dara
> Happa whereas the Hyalorings are from Genert's wasted land. Are there any
> other sources of horse that we don't know about?
The Hyalorings, Hirenmador and other Pentan tribes all originated in
Peloria, it seems. Maps of Dawn Age Genertela show Genert's Garden (Pent
and the Wastelands) as the Chaos Wastes, and generally uninhabited. That
neither part was that uninhabitable was proven later, first after Argentium
Thri'ile.
I wonder when and how the Kralori features entered the horse tribes of
Pent. After Argentium Thri'ile they had plenty of wives, so no raiding
for them or slaves was necessary. A few generations later this could
have changed, and they could have raided Ignorance.
However, there could have been a mongol-like nation of horse nomads
west of the Yankley Bore which entered the politics of the Dara Happa
descended horse nomads and mingled with them. Their horses would
have been of another myth of origin.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: gkc...@udcf.gla.ac.uk (S.Phillips)
Subject: Colymar, Varmandi, Taral & Zarran
Message-ID: <21215.199...@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 3 Sep 94 03:40:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6049
Hi from Sam
-----------
I have been giving a lot of thought to the Varmandi re-write, trying
to get my original stuff to match Greg's maps and KoS.
Just a few thoughts containing a few juicy map tidbits and anomalies:-
REDBIRD
-------
It seems to me that Redbird was Colymar until two of the Three-Tree clans were
forced to join the Malani by the Lunars - Lysan and Namoldin(g) - in 1613.
But who owns it after 1613? There are a few options,
1) It has been taken over by the Lunar Army. Quite plausible this one but
there is no proof anywhere.
2) It is still held by the Colymar. Well, the Antorling "Apple" Clan are
still in the Arfritha vale and the birches of "over two ridges, from the
place where birches grow" are only a mile(ish) west of Redbird which KoS
claims is still owned by the Antorlings. Perhaps the Antorlings hold
it. Possible, but I highly doubt that the Lunars would be into this.
Also, Greg's map contradicts Kos on this, putting the extent of the
Antorling lands a good few miles short of the birches.
3) The Malani hold it. Three sub possibilities;
i) The Lysan(g) hold it. Possible as they live to the north and west of
Redbird around Larnste's Table. Unlikely as they probably still hold
some loyalty to the Colymar.
ii) The Namoldin(g) hold it. Also possible as they hold the land to the
west of Redbird. Unlikely for the same reasons.
iii) It has been given to the Malani, *but* the former Colymar tribes
cannot be trusted to use it in the interest of the Malani and so
has to be policed in some way, either by Lunars or other Malani or
both. My favourite theory.
Of course, these theories seem to revolve around the fact that the Malani
are in the Lunar Pocket. A fact I appear to have taken for granted, but
now I come to think of it, I fear I have no proof for. Did I read it or
did I make it up? The only reference I can find, somewhat hurriedly (If
anyone could shed lighjt on this I would be grateful) is that they were
not among Starbrow's Rebellion. As this was concluded around Larnste's
Table "with the Lunar army visible below" I would assume that the Lysan
were involved making them less of a candidate for the Redbird holders *and*
perhaps it was at Redbird that the Lunar's were camped at.
I could well be wrong in my assumption that the Malani were not great
resisters of the Lunars, in which case many more of the above scenarios
could be possible. I still doubt that it is Colymar though.
My campaign has Redbird Policed by the Lunars and ruled by an Orleving. My
reasons are not really logic rather than story-preference. With the Orlevings
holdin 2 forts around the Varmandi it makes them a real nasty enemy. Also as
the Varmandi are the *most* warlike of the Colymar it would seem good politics
for the Lunars to put their sworn enemies between them and the rest of Lunars
in Boldhome and Jonstown.
Larnste's Table
---------------
Apart from being a big hill with a flat top, what *is* Larnste's table and
what does it have to do with the affore mentioned God of mobility? Is this
where Larnste stopped to chat with "the ancient one" perhaps the Ormthane
in Ormthane vale? (if indeed Ormthane does mean Dragon King). Perhaps they
shared a goblet or two apon this very spot?
Black Altar
-----------
What is this? It doesn't appear on Greg's maps other than being close to the
grave of Iskell Varmandson where he was done-in by Orlev One-eye. Quite why
this would justify a "black altar" I have no Idea. This is, I fear, a red
herring. Why is there a road leading to it on the Apple Lane map? There isn't
one on Greg's Colymar map. Are Black Altar and Tarndisi's grove the only
two altar's in the Colymar lands? My advice would be to tippex them out of
the Apple Lane map and forget them until someone comes up with something better.
Lunar Manors
------------
There are a two of these marked on Greg's map. One by the Swan River and the
road south of Runegate. One just south of Old man in the Nymie Vale. There is
a Lunar Rune drawn on the Runegate one. Does this signify some sort of temple?
What is meant by a "manor"? A farm, a Roman style manor house, a semi military
base?
Askander`s ridge
----------------
Haha! How Gregged can you get! This is mentioned in the WMFTM in
Genertela:Player's book. It refers to "trolls ... that ate all the sheep on
Askander's Ridge". I took this to mean that this ridge is probably somewhere
around the Varmandi's lands.. Oh, but NO! It lies directly south of Boldhome,
probably just west of Richberry Vale and Lookout and south of Ingan. Not
even Colymar land, let alone Varmandi. This is also the place marked as where
Barngradus, second Colymar King, fought Borngold the Usurper (c. 1350ish?).
Hound Knob
----------
A large hill directly 4-5 miles south of apple lane, just north of Tarndisi's
Grove. It doesn't appear on the Apple Lane map. At least not the new one.
There is two contenders on the old map. I recon this is what the large lump
marked on Jon Quaife's map in TotRM5 is although I reckon his pen slipped when
he named the dragon-newty-runey-thingy Hound Knob instead. The splodge next
to it says "Agbor`s Stead" or "Asbor's" depending on how you read the
handwriting.Queen Leika is killed at the Battle of Hound Knob c1638. If
Larnste's Table looks like a table I wonder what this looks like?
Varmandi Tula
-------------
The main Varmandi settlement is at Oakton which is derictly between Swanton,
Tarkalor keep and Rainbow Mounds. Solid Oak Stead is 2 milesish North east
of Oakton. Both are on or around the swan river. Swan is on the Swan river;
Apple lane is at least a mile south of the southern split. The Swan river
serves as the south boundry for the Varmandi lands. Sadly, I had the whole
lot in the Ormthane Vale. The Orlevings swamped the south Ormthane Vale in 1400.
Tarkalor Keep
-------------
It is unclear from Greg's map whether this is or isn't part of the Varmandi
Lands. Minaryth Blue was born here in 1597 and he was a Hiording (Swanson).
Greg's map puts it either within or just North of the Varmandi lands. The
Orlevings came this way around 1400ish. It has 1572? written beside it.
I wonder what that means.. Was this a look-out post againsed the Lunar king
Phargentes of Tarsh and his army? Did Tarkalor ever stay here? He was married
to the Feathered Horse Queen in 1575 so if he did he probably didn't stay long.
Tarkalor Keep isn't mentioned in the Zin Letters either. I would assume that it
*was* built by Tarkalor in 1572 who had been king for 3yrs. Who owns it now?
The Lunars? Why would they leave a valuable keep to the Colymar? Being it
is only 5 miles from Runegate, how did it escape being caught up in
the Lunar Attack of 1602?
Apple Lane
----------
"..on the traditional boundry between the Colymar and the Malani". Greg's
Colymar map would mark it out as well within the Hiording boundry. Is it
independent? Which clan if any did Gringle represent on the high council?
(Alex has my copy - Alex?).
Zarran & Taral Wars & Karandoli clan
------------------------------------
I think these started in 1400ish when the Orlevings moved south through the
Ormthane Vale, forcing the Varmandi out. Earlier in the beginning of the 1300s
the Varmandi had been forced out of the Afritha vale by the Namoldin, Lysan
and Antorling(?) (or whoever they were before). With the advancing Orlevings the
Varmandi saw this is a good opertunity to try to reclaim some of their old land
and duly attacked the Karandoli(?). Venharl was king of the Colymar at this time
and also a Karandoli. He died at the beginning of the Zarran Wars (c.1418).
The Zarran wars ended with the destruction of the Karandoli tribe and the
passing of the Malani tribe. This contradicts what is said in "Lost Clans"
which says they arrived *after* the passing of the Malani and were destroyed
by Jenstli clan magic. Also, if the Karandoli clan *were* destroyed around 1420
then where was Ortossi (Colymar king 1479-1491) from? The Varmandi also claim
to have destroyed the Karandoli in the Taral War (supposedly before the Zarran
Wars). Confused? You will be... in The Second Wave, the Zarran war is said to
be over by 1360. If the Karandoli were in the Brambleberry Hills then they
weren`t even the Varmandi's Neighbours. Aaarrrgghh!
Any thoughts? Corrections? Flames?...
Cheers!
Sam. x
NSBS
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: gkc...@udcf.gla.ac.uk (S.Phillips)
Subject: Bouncing posts, Starbrow Piracy
Message-ID: <11951.199...@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 5 Sep 94 15:56:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6052
(Reposting of article originally sent on Saturday)
Hi from Sam
-----------
Any thoughts? Corrections? Flames?...
Cheers!
Sam. x
NSBS
(now to new stuff)
Hi from Sam
-----------
I am having troble sending E-mail out. My last 3 posts have been bouncing for
days. I pray to Mastakos that this arrives. It was sent on Monday 5th.
Alison Place:
> When I was trying to come
>up with an Orlanthi myth, I was using King of Sartar to give me ideas,
>and there was Kallyr Starbrow, a follower of Vinga.
Just to confuse matters and to "Greg" Greg, the Sartar High Council article
from Wyrm's footnotes has Kalyyr Starbrow down as Orlanth Thunderous. This
is, of course, very old now - but interesting. Does this mean that she wasn't a
Vinga or does it mean that Vinga is more like Orlanth Thunderous than
Adventurous (or is it just dated material?).
Glen Bailey:
> Is there any other information about Kallyr in other books besides KoS?
>Where did she get the name of Starbrow?
In the spirit of blatant Wolf Piracy I present the following:-
:COMMON KNOWLEDGE
:
:11. KALYYR STARBROW
: Kheldon Tribe (1700)
: Orlanth Thunderous
:Kalyyr is a chieftaness of her tribe who could be the next king of Sartar,
:but is a woman. She is a very strong and proud woman, always trying to
:maintain justice and prestige for her tribe. Her tribe suffered less than
:many in the fighting ten years earlier. For this Hofstaring is mistrustful.
: She does not like Beneva, (#7) who she thinks is a heavy and jelous bitch.
:She does like Kallai, and thinks that she and he could make a promising pair
:and, perhaps, be the king and queen of Sartar. She has great faith in her
:deity
:
:PRIVATE KNOWLEDGE
:
:KALLYR STARBROW, Cheiftan(ess) of the Kheldon, Priest of Orlanth Thunder
:
: Kalyyr is a famous warrior in Sartar, and appears to be the next in line for
:kingship after the present king dies. She is known to have visited a star in
:her Heroquest, gaining a marvelous magic crystal in doing so which hold power
:and spells, and can lead her (or her soul) back to the star at any time.
: She refuses to commit her people to the fight, and she will also accuse
:anyone who is too excited about going as being a Lunar collaborator and a
:rabble rouser. She is especially distrustful of Vamastal Greyskin who she
:will accuse of being a Lunar spy if he dares to speak against her.
: She is Haughty and volitle, and easily goes into fits of shouting and
:accusation. She will state that her loyalty to the nation of Sartar is
:unquestionable, but she will not allow it to be ruined by a hand of fools and
:cowards.
: She is also interested in rumours of an heir.
:
: (C) - Greg Stafford, sometime long, long ago.
This is *very* different to the write-up she gets in Rough Guide to Boldhome:
:Kallyr Starbrow
:
: Exiled Sartar patriot and heiress of the Sartar royal household. Vingan
:warrior-woman. She is the daughter of Loricon, son of Prince Jarolar,
:and of Enirin Ironeye. She was Queen of the Kheldon tribe until 1613 when she
:beacme the figurehead of a rebellion againsed th Lunar occupiers. She was
:forced to flee for her life after this failed (much of the blame for the
:rebellion fell apon the ducks). SHe finally ended up taking refuge with King
:Broyan of the Volsaxi, and there began to form a corps of vingan warrior-women.
: When Whitewall fell to the Lunars she escaped, along with the majority of
:the Volsaxi, and took refuge in the Stormwalk Mountains. It has been reported
:that she has been involved in the recent events in the Holy Country but her
:current whereabouts are unknown.
:
:(C) - David Hall, Kevin Jacklin & Greg Stafford.
I trust I haven't overstepped my 10% copying allowance here. Alex,
you *aren't* a copywrite lawyer so seem to be qualified to speak knowledgeably,
and at length, about such matters.. (oh yeh, and the alternative spellings are
as in the original - not *my* typos ;-)
I hope this helps. She is certainly a fascinating character.
Cheers!
Sam. x
---------------------
From: 10011...@compuserve.com (David Hall)
Subject: Reaching Moon Megacorp
Message-ID: <940905210909_100...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 5 Sep 94 21:09:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6061
Howdy all!
I'm still slowly recovering from Convulsion and this last year of hectic
work. At present I am revelling in being gloriously incompentant and lazy
(except where money is concerned), so please bear with me while I recharge
my rather depleted Gloranthan batteries.
I have the following items available for sale:
All prices are UK pounds sterling.
Back copies of Tales of the Reaching Moon #11 & #12 2.50
University of Sog City Conference Guide 6.00
Jar-Eel Assassin T-Shirt (L or XL) 12.99
RuneQuest-Con Compendium 10.00
Please make cheques/postal orders out to David Hall. Prices include UK
postage. For postage to Europe add 10% and elsewhere in the world add 30%.
The following items are now out of print:
All issues of Tales prior to issue #11
The Collected Griselda
Rough Guide to Boldhome
Report on Boldhome
RQ-Con Programme Book
The Glorious ReAscent of Yelm
I hope to be able to sell some copies of the Dara Happan Book of Emperors
very soon. Please send an SSAE if you are interested in buying one.
Send your orders to: David Hall, 21 Stephenson Court, Osborne Street,
Slough, Berkshire, SL1 1TN, England.
Wyrms Footprints:
The date for this is slipping again. Unfortunately, the date given in Tales
#12 was incorrect. I expect it to be out in October/November at the same
time as Tales #13. I apologise for the endless delays on this but I do
promise that when it does come out it will have been worth waiting for!
By the way, Tales #13 will be a Malkioni special and not a Praxian special
(there was some confusion in issue #12 - all due to my addled and hassled
brain before Convulsion).
David Switch:
Please hurry up with this. I want to switch with Dave Cake and get a cheap
holiday in Australia!
Shargash/Entekos/Antirinausia:
I hesitate to say this, but does anyone else out there find all of this
endless analysis and investigation of the Glorious ReAscent obscure,
over-complex, over-blown and completely irrelevant! It all fails to
interest, excite or inspire me. How can any of this waffle help me GM or
play the damn game?
OK, OK, so I can just skip over these bits. But these days I seem to be
skipping over most of the digest...
Vinga:
I think she has the Air, Mobility and Earth runes. She is a deity for
Orlanthi women - but she is also Orlanth Adventuress. Note: I believe that
women can't join the cult of Orlanth per se. They can only join the
religion of Orlanth & Ernalda which gives them automatic access to all
Ernaldan magics and some Orlanthi magics. To get automatic access to almost
all Orlanthi magic (and special Vingan magic) they must join Vinga. This
works the other way for men through the Grain Goddess sub-cult. However,
men can never get access to all female magic - some things must remain
secret and forbidden (usually for very practical reasons)!
I think Vinga was a daughter of Vingkot who has become a goddess and the
daughter of Orlanth over many years of myth telling/heroquesting, and
because her role fits an important niche in Orlanthi society. In some
Orlanthi societies she may still be seen as a daughter of Vingkot and only
a Hero Cult of Orlanth. This theory also leads me to think that she is not
part of the Esrolian Earth pantheon - or only a very recent addition.
Proving her to be a part of this pantheon would make a fun campaign!
Presumably there should be some myth where a young Vinga asks why women
don't bear arms, but isn't satisfied with the answer "because they
don't/Orlanth forbids it". She then goes off and learns how to fight,
returning to confront her father (Orlanth/Vingkot) and force him to accept
the idea of warrior-women in his society - and at the lowest level of the
cult's function, the right of all Orlanthi women to bear arms and defend
themselves.
Anyone want to write this up?! (Though as I remember Lewis' myth covered
part of this.) It's the basic myth for any cult write-up.
Elmal:
Peter Metcalfe writes:
>If we accept that Elmal is a different god.from Antirius or Yelmalio, then
we have
>severe problems (IMO) in trying to sort out what happened to the Elmali
tribes in the
>time of King Tarkalor. They 'wished to be able to bring a sunspear from
their god'.
>Since Elmal does not teach fire magics (and is probably not assoicated
with Yelm to
>get the Sun Spear), then what the dissidents are trying to do is to change
to another
>god. To me, this smacks of concious God Learnerism.
It is actually precisely the opposite! This is one of the many complex ways
that myths evolve and change through time. The Elmali are discovering
"lost" aspects of their deity. Whether this is true or not doesn't really
matter: what matters is what they believe. In this case some of them have
looked at the lowland sun god and decided that he must be linked to their
own sun god (seems very plausible to me). Then either through comparison of
similar myths and/or comparitive heroquesting they have "proved" that their
sun god is a son of Yelm called Yelmalio. They may be "correct" or they may
be "incorrect": but since they believe it then they must be correct (of
course the pure Elmali believe the Yelmalions are wrong and they too are
correct in this belief).
Glorantha isn't a world based on science where things can be proved right
or wrong - where there is one true way. It is a world of shifting myth and
beliefs. It is a place where, if enough people believe in something, then
it becomes the truth for them and creates its own reality. This is why
there are multiple versions of the same god Orlanth; each with different
myths, rituals, pantheons, and spells, and each meeting the local and
unique needs of its worshippers. Is one of these more correct than the
others? Yes, the one YOU believe in! (Well, actually the Orlanth worshipped
by the Greydog clan is the one true Orlanth!!)
The fun aspect of Glorantha is when two belief systems clash - as in the
case of the Elmali. It was the lowland sun worshippers versus the highland
storm. Whose beliefs were more relevant? To many Elmali it was the
lowlander's beliefs that offered more to them in their everyday lives - and
so they converted. Of course, to most Orlanthi the secrets of the
lowlanders were irrelevant to their way of life. However, now that the Red
Goddess disputes the middle air with Orlanth it's not so clear cut,
especially considering the perfidious nature of the Lunar Way!
Note: The comment in King of Sartar is obviously by a Sartarite writer who
is maliciously ascribing to the Yelmalions selfish and grasping motives for
their actions. Their real motives might have been far purer. Perhaps the
Elmali clans were being discriminated against by the Orlanthi clans who
were denying them important clan and tribal positions?
Now, the God Learners would go for a more straightforward and simplistic
solution, i.e. remove the problem by making all of the sun gods exactly the
same! Force everyone to believe the same thing regardless of their
individual and group circumstances. In this lies the seeds of their
failure.
Cheers,
David
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: 10027...@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Kallyr
Message-ID: <940906075721_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 6 Sep 94 07:57:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6072
Glen Bailey:
> Is there any other information about Kallyr in other books besides KoS?
OK, then... This is cobbled together from WF#7, "Sartar High Council", and
subsequent editions of "Dragons Past", with a bit of opinion thrown in:
_______________
KALLYR STARBROW
Kallyr is a famous warrior, a chieftain in the Kheldon tribe, and an
Orlanthi priestess and heroquester, who is well placed to become the next
king of Sartar. She is a very strong and proud woman, always trying to
maintain justice and prestige for her tribe. She is also haughty and
volatile, easily lapsing into fits of shouting and accusation. Those who
oppose her plans are accused of being fools and cowards; those who propose
active alternatives come under suspicion of being Lunar collaborators and
rabble-rousers hoping to force her hand. This looks like a fear of rivals,
possibly rooted in her insecurity about her claim to the throne of Sartar
(apparently a tenuous connection). Obviously she is not an easy woman to
work with, alienating potential friends and making enemies easily.
As a powerful heroquester, Kallyr is known to have visited a star, gaining
a marvellous magic crystal which holds power and spells and can lead her
(or her soul) back to that star at any time. I'd presume she wears this in
her forehead, despite the Tolkienesque images this conjures up: the name
makes it too obvious...
The uprising known as "Starbrow's Rebellion" in 1613 was an unmitigated
disaster for Sartar. The results of the hasty and ill-prepared insurrection
were a genocidal tax on Duck heads, and the replacement of an incompetent
Lunar governor with the supremely able Tarshite general Fazzur Wideread. An
heir to the kingdom was found in the Holy Country -- Temertain the Fool --
and installed as a Lunar puppet, setting back Kallyr's own chances of ever
becoming King.
For a woman with Kallyr's pride, this must have been almost unbearable
humiliation, and it is unsurprising that we hear little of her for a decade
after her surrender and acceptance of Fazzur's insidiously gentle peace
terms. I see her as the brooding type; in the aftermath of defeat she
probably blew her top and lost all but her most dedicated supporters.
Good role models: Boadicea; Elizabeth I; Margaret Thatcher (!). She could
probably use her sex to shame and inspire her followers -- "a better man
than any of you", "body of a weak and feeble woman", etc. Obviously very
insecure and temperamental. Anyone who's stayed with her through thick and
thin must be a *real* fanatical loyalist, probably emulating her leader's
every gesture and attitude (think about Arkat's "shadows").
Contrary to popular rumour, she is *not* a Duck.
____________________
The Golden Metcalfe:
> I think Naveria is actually the wife of Yelm. Given that Dendara is the
> bright face of the Earth brightened by Yelm (and Gorgorma is the dark
> face - look at the moon for what I describing), Dendara would be the
> daughter of Yelm and when Yelm married her in Naveria (IMO this explains
> why the land goddess Naveria is seen as the marriage aspect of Dendara)
> this would fit the myth.
"Faces" of the Earth? Dendara as Yelm's daughter? What on Glorantha is this
man saying?
Unless you are a devotee of the Max Muller school of myth-interpretation,
there's nothing explicitly "Solar" in the Red King's story. The popular
identification of the Red King with a (or *any*) Dara Happan emperor is a
figment of the Net. Find one who fits the myth.
> I should really explain my earlier posting and state that my belief is
> that the Dara Happan cult of Yelm is actually worshipping the Sun through
> the paths of Murharzarm.
Perhaps the Dara Happan for "Yelm Imperator" is "Yelm Murharzarm"?
> In many ways this begins to parallel all the stories of the creation of
> man I have seen. The Galanin are descended from Lofak, the Jenarong are
> from Dara Happa whereas the Hyalorings are from Genert's wasted land.
> Are there any other sources of horse that we don't know about?
REALLY BIG warhorses arrived in Peloria with the Carmanians. These may have
been descended/bred/improved from original Galanini non-Solar equine stock.
Another of the Really Scary Things about Carmanian cavalry...
(Stirrups, we believe, were introduced to Peloria at the end of the First
Age. Kastok's secret weapon against the nomads, perhaps.)
On the flexibility of mythology: I'd rather be able to tell a coherent and
plausible myth about Antirius, another about Yelmalio, a third about Elmal,
without having to work out what each of them "means" in terms of the other.
Any more than the author of the Tain intentionally harmonised Queen Medhbh
with Madhava (or whatever her name was) from Indian mythology. Yeah, there
may be common cultural root-elements; but the quest for One True Story can
only serve to limit the number of stories told. If it's a good myth, and I
know who tells it, I'll use it.
The various strata of mythologies in Dara Happa are loads of fun, because
they were all collected together and edited with a purpose in mind. So the
strangest things in the Glorious ReAscent were consciously chosen for
inclusion. "Many of the old statements, alas, do not meet with the rigid
criteria for inclusion in this True Book."
A big question remains: what is Truth? Over to Greg, from the Dara Happan
Book of Emperors.
: Several documents exist which all claim to be True Lists of the emperors
: of Dara Happa. They all pass muster when probed by the Knowledge Cults'
: Truth spells. Yet they do not always agree with each other. Truth?
: Scholars explain this discrepancy in one or more of several ways:
:
: 1. By justifying and associating the lists until their (modified)
: versions correlate. (common to the Knowledge cults)
:
: 2. By defaming the ancient authors as deceivers, etc., capable of forging
: a spell which can conceal falsehood; (or forging a falsehood which can
: fool a Spell.)
:
: 3. By questioning the Knowledge Cults' abilities to tell the Truth, even
: going so far at times to call them "shysters and liars unto the degree
: of lawyers."
:
: 4. By philosophizing about Truth. Olovanus the Wise says that if the
: Maker has enough confidence and Truth then it will always be so True.
: Etc.
:
: Occasionally engaging in the Truth Contest. This method has entirely
: dismissed many other lists, especially the "Alkoth Emperors", the
: "Secret Nysalor Emperors", and the "New Paladins" (all of which, none-
: theless, maintain popularity in certain places).
Confusing, eh? Then again, the inevitable plurality of Truth (even the
Truth Rune itself!) is described in one of the oldest Gloranthan myths,
"Uleria and the Boggles".
(On the other hand, how can that myth possibly be True?)
====
Nick
====
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: out.going/rq-daily/index
6074:CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) - The Blue Wizard vents his spleen...
6075:JAR...@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK - Dendara & Yelm
6076:CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) - ...about gods unseen...
6077:CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) - ...and Joerg.
6078:SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172) - blue moon over mernita
6079:san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 02 Sep 1994
6080:jonas....@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott) - Myths and Islands and Quests.
6081:coo...@max.mml.mmc.com (Chris Cooke) - New Deluxe Edition
6082:GBa...@aol.com - thanks on Kallyr; Vinga
6083:LAN...@cbr.hhcs.gov.au - Unsub
6084:DCOW...@UTMEM1.UTMEM.EDU - Questions
---------------------
From: JAR...@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Dendara & Yelm
Message-ID: <9409061251.AA27975@Sun.COM>
Date: 6 Sep 94 12:53:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6075
Nick: Dendara obidently follows Yelm's path.
Right On!
To be precise she follows just behind Yelm (dutifully) and slightly lower.
After all everyone knows that women, even those as good as Dendara cannot
aspire to such lofty heights. GLs thought it might be possible to see
Dendara by careful positioning of sight blocks (it is rumoured that a
number of them were blinded while getting the positioning right).
On another GL note could the darkness after the Sun Stop be caused by
Dendara (unable to halt so suddenly) overshooting Yelm and Eclipsing his
Glory. The effect of these female influences will have naturally had a
deleterious effect on mankind.
Pedentite Marcellus of Alkoth
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: ...about gods unseen...
Message-ID: <01HGT9AO6...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 7 Sep 94 13:08:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6076
David Hall Writes
=================
>Shargash/Entekos/Antirinausia:
>I hesitate to say this, but does anyone else out there find all of this
>endless analysis and investigation of the Glorious ReAscent obscure,
>over-complex, over-blown and completely irrelevant! It all fails to
>interest, excite or inspire me. How can any of this waffle help me GM or
>play the damn game?
It's just one aspect of the Gloranthan hobby. If Greg didn't want the meanings
of the GRAY and other misleading texts to be debated over by Pedants then he
would have made the facts clear...
>>[My views on why I think Elmal, Antirius and Yelmalio are one elucidated].
>>To me, this smacks of concious God Learnerism.
>It is actually precisely the opposite! This is one of the many complex ways
>that myths evolve and change through time. The Elmali are discovering
>"lost" aspects of their deity.
Which was what I was arguing.
>Whether this is true or not doesn't really
>matter: what matters is what they believe.
So if I believe that Yelmalio didn't really loses his fire powers at the hills
of Gold, I can use Fireblade? To me this is simplistic. What also matters is
what the enemy believes about the god and what actually happened to the God
himself.
I must come out into the open and state my belief that at 0 ST, the gods were
frozen by the web. All the myths that we have of a particular god are the
totality of the god himself. In extremely rare cases the myth can be extended
into time by concious heroquesting of a colossal magnitude (Orlanth and
Arangorf dancing together in KoS obviously describes the Cult of Orlanth
Dragonfriend). Other types of cult changes can be either of two mechanisms.
Either the heroquester finds an event of what the god did that was previously
unknown and adds the spell to the cults lexicon or he borrows a tool from a
similar diety or invents a power in which case he becomes the focus of a
subcult. An example of this latter would be the spell 'seek Sun Dome' taught by
Monrogh?
>In this case some of them have
>looked at the lowland sun god and decided that he must be linked to their
>own sun god (seems very plausible to me). Then either through comparison of
>similar myths and/or comparitive heroquesting they have "proved" that their
>sun god is a son of Yelm called Yelmalio.
And if Elmal was not Yelmalio, would some bad side effects have happened? The
God Learners switched two earth goddesses around and no fruit grew in one place
and no marriage survived in the other. Also the Elmali dispute took place
within the third age which was when this sort of thing was detested.
>Glorantha isn't a world based on science where things can be proved right
>or wrong - where there is one true way. It is a world of shifting myth and
>beliefs. It is a place where, if enough people believe in something, then
>it becomes the truth for them and creates its own reality.
I do not accept this. The Gods were, the gods are. They have made themselves
a permanent part of glorantha. What mortals in glorantha can only do is
comprehend a fraction of the god (like the buddhist parable of the six blind
men and the elephant). This was the basis behind my suggestion that the Solar
Orb was too powerful to be worshipped directly and all the sun cults we have
are only crude approximations.
>The fun aspect of Glorantha is when two belief systems clash - as in the
>case of the Elmali. It was the lowland sun worshippers versus the highland
>storm. Whose beliefs were more relevant? To many Elmali it was the
>lowlander's beliefs that offered more to them in their everyday lives - and
>so they converted.
This could be done without invoking the principle of 'a god in every peasants
pot every sunday'. The greeks in their hellenistic expansion phase syncretized
a lot of what they saw (for the religions of asia minor there was little
problem) but struck severe problems with the jews as told in the books of the
Macabees (sp?)
Transferring this example to Glorantha, An Orlanthi warlord encounters a
malkioni land and conquers it. He sees the parallels and reasons that this god
they worship is the King of all and Orlanth is the King of Gods so Orlanth is
this God. He substitutes the worship of the Invisible God for Orlanth ('well
Orlanths invisble, ain't he, so it must be him!'). He orders the wizards of
that land to alter the spell of worship invisible god to worship orlanth and
borrows other malkioni traditons. Do you think that this would be successful?
(Yes, I know about the cult of the invisble orlanth, but that is a myth in
carmania of how Orlanth defeated the creator and was enlightened, not the
identification of Orlanth with the invisible god)
>Note: The comment in King of Sartar is obviously by a Sartarite writer who
>is maliciously ascribing to the Yelmalions selfish and grasping motives for
>their actions. Their real motives might have been far purer. Perhaps the
>Elmali clans were being discriminated against by the Orlanthi clans who
>were denying them important clan and tribal positions?
Good point. However if Elmal was not Yelmalio/Antirius/Paininthearseus, they
were still trying to do was substitute a foreign god and the Sartarite could
have easily made the charge of 'God Learnerism' which he doesn't.
I'm sorry if this has been somewhat pedantic but I feel obliged to explain
myself when people invoke my name. I am trying to wean myself of this habit.
--Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: blue moon over mernita
Message-ID: <01HGSDE24...@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 6 Sep 94 04:11:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6078
Hi all--
Just getting back into the daily after the long holiday weekend
here, I have not yet had time to assimilate the assorted comments
by Joerg, Peter the Blue Wizard, and Nick on the gods of Dara
Happa.
I did note David Hall's comment regarding the discussion though.
If others find it to be a complex mind-numbing, soul-zapping spell
devised by hideous Godlearners, I'll be happy to take the
discussion offline.
I might note that sometimes interesting game-related ideas can come
out of these discussions through this forum. As one example,
Joerg, I think, mentioned that the ancient city of Mernita was
crushed by Sedenya, the false sun, who may also be the blue moon.
If this is the case (or even if its not), then some good Dara
Happans or magic-seeking Lunars may make this connection, too. So
what better than to launch a true solar punitive expedition against
those miserable digijelm to restore the glory of lost Mernita? Or
the grand lunar hunt for the heart of Sedenya, said to contain a
secret fire that even trolls have not extinguished? Or an Ice Sea
fisher returns from an expedition with an unusual carved stone,
Dara Happan in origin, but depicting a ritual now unknown?
In warning, I will probably produce one more posting on the daily
on the topic of Dara Happan/Pelorian mythos as I consolidate the
assorted responses from the weekend. If consensus is to take it
offline after that, I will do so.
--Harald
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 02 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <940906165...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 6 Sep 94 04:52:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6079
>> Herd men... slow down your herd to a comparitive crawl.
Paul Reilly:
>In a sprint, yes. I'm not sure about miles per day.
But any plains tribe must be highly concerned about speed
when under threat of broo or animal nomad raider. Hence, the herd men
are a clear detriment to the herd of an impala or high llama group.
>I think that herd men may be less gruesome to eat than Sandy
>apparently does, also.
Like I've argued before, I believe that most Praxians avoid
eating herd men. I won't go back into my arguments here.
>Remember that herd men have been selectively bred, and probably are
>bigger, have more stamina, and give more milk than their distant
>human cousins.
Strong disagreement here. Sorry. Humans are the worst
imaginable subjects for selective breeding. 1) they tend to form pair
bonds. 2) they take more than a decade to reach breeding age. 3) they
normally give a single birth.
Natural selection's already done its part to make humans as
efficient as possible. Herd men don't have more stamina because
humans have been "bred" to have as much stamina as possible.
>as Sandy points out, the herd men can fight
This is true. Of course, in an open battle, a herd man vs.
bison isn't much of a contest. But if the morocanth have a reasonably
defensive position, herd man can hurl down rocks or defend
barricades, which bison are inept at doing.
Martin Crim:
>Sandy mentioned the historical facts from Western warfare, though a
>better analogy would be Mongol hordes or Plains Indians
The Mongols were 1/3 lancers. Plains Indians also carried
lances, clubs, etc. But the plains indians also had to fight
opponents who used firearms, so they couldn't utilize the lance
properly against them. Hence, they went over almost entirely to the
bow and rifle. If you look at the armament of Amerinds before they
encountered the white man, they used plenty of melee weapons.
John Strauss:
>A central mythical theme of the Waha tribes states that the
>Morokanth are in the SAME subsistance niche as humans. If a
>human can eat it, so can a Morokanth and vice versa.
We know that the various tribes of Prax fill different
ecological niches (which is why they don't exterminate each other).
The Morocanth are only doing the same. Their herd men allows them to
go places and do things impossible to the other tribes. Their own
body form helps out, too.
That said, I don't think the Morocanth are immune to any of
the diseases, and no doubt they suffer from them, especially given
their marsh proclivities.
>Does anyone know if the *herds* can subsist in those marshes? Is
>there fodder suitable for herdmen or bison?
Marshes are highly productive, ecologically. There's heaps of
food in 'em. Not only animal life, but plant life, too. However, I
don't think that the bison, impalas, etc. can take advantage of it,
because they're desert creatures. I would predict that they get
bogged down in such swampy terrain. Plus they can't dig up the
cattail roots and such.
Herd men, on the other hand, do just fine in moist terrain.
They can dig, swim, catch frogs, etc
Martin:
>Gigantism is common on islands.
So is dwarfism. Even MORE common, in fact.
>Thieves' Guilds. This phrase always causes me to scream. Lhankmar
>is a bizarre, ancient place, where even the thieves are organized.
>Elsewhere, use of the word "guild" could only be ironic
Hear, hear!
Alex:
>Great Elk are something _completely_ different, aren't they?
Great Elk, usually termed "Irish Elk" for mysterious reasons,
were smaller than the moose in the body, but with much larger,
palmate, antlers. Like the moose, they probably only rarely fought
over females by pounding their heads together, but mainly relied on
impressing the females with their love calls and huge antlers.
Wapiti, who have effective fighting antlers (much better than
moose), actually fight over the females, and the winner takes all.
Among moose, the females pretty much select their own mates and have
a lot more say in the matter. On this basis, I predict that the Aleci
(moosehsunchen) are more female-dominated and less feisty than the
Pralori.
Martin
>does the Lunar aspect of Trickster have a specific name?
Er. "The Red Goddess"? Or how about "Orlanth"?
>The best-known example of island gigantism is probably the tortoises
>of the Galapagos Islands.
During the last Ice Age, there was a dwarf species of mammoth
on Malta. The calves were no bigger than a cat. Island dwarfism is at
least as common as island gigantism. The truth might just be that
islands have a smaller number of colonist species to fill all the
niches available, so whatever animals happen to be present change to
fit in. The Hawaiian Islands apparently originated with only a few
insects, so fruit flies (for instance) have evolved into over 2000
different species there, about as many as the rest of the world
combined, filling niches taken elsewhere by other types of flies,
hymenopterans, etc.
---------------------
From: jonas....@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Myths and Islands and Quests.
Message-ID: <940906160...@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 6 Sep 94 20:06:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6080
Alex in yesterday's daily:
>Joerg on Vinga, and some cultic pot-shots of his own:
>> With the myths, I always want a
>> one true version for myself, and a malleable basic set to adapt for all
>> the local variations.
>
>What practicable difference is there between the "true" myths and the others?
>If it makes a difference, why would anyone go for the false ones? If it
>doesn't, why do you need to know?
Dunno what Joerg needs to know, but I have to admit that I too sometimes
feel a strange yearning for the 'real story'. Is this just an inability to
deal with a fluid and changing world-picture? Maybe, but I think the main
reason is technical. When describing the differences between the local
variations, it's useful to have a sort of neutral blueprint, a standard of
measurement to apply. What will such a blueprint look like in practice? I
guess it would be a colorless, flavorless, not very exciting collection of
stories and attributes that would define 'the basic Orlanth', for example.
Even if there is a great deal of regional variation, there have to be some
sort of minimum requirements for what constitutes a cult of <whoever>.
I know that a lot of people will cry out against this sort of
'standardization', but I think that if we're going to discuss Glorantha on
any scale but the extremely local, we need it. Otherwise we'll be reduced
to describing one little community each, with deities and myths unknown
anywhere else in the world. Which to me defeats the purpose of gaming in
Glorantha.
I've got a few more things to say on this subject, but I'll wait for the
flames to descend first...
>> As to Vinga's identity: If you try to apply linguistics
>
>She's a lighthouse?
I've been wondering about that... Do you think Greg's ever seen a map of
Sweden (or even more unlikely, heard the song (and had it translated))?
>Curtis Shenton suggests:
>> A worshipper sacrifices POW into a pool of Rune Power that they
>> can draw upon later. But the only spells they can cast are those they
>> have earned through various minihero quests. For example for an Orlanthi
>> to get Darkwalk they need to steal something from a Kygor Liter
>> worshipper.
>
>This is rather like what Henk suggested, I think. I certainly agree with
>the HQ component, though I saw it as being more of a ritual one.
It sounds a lot like Barron's "runepath" ideas to me, though I don't think
he ever got that specific about _how_ the questing should be done. Hey,
Chugg! You still out there, man?
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
---------------------
From: coo...@max.mml.mmc.com (Chris Cooke)
Subject: New Deluxe Edition
Message-ID: <9409062049.AA29247@Sun.COM>
Date: 6 Sep 94 20:43:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6081
My players asked me to take a general poll.
Are there any other people who have bought the new Deluxe Edition RQ3 book
and had a problem with pages falling out?
My group has bought 7 copies, 5 have pages out and one has loose pages(the
owner is VERY carful - NOW). The owner of the 7th, I've lost touch with.
How common is this?
--
/> Chris Cooke
//
(//////[O]>====================================-
\\
\> coo...@mml.mmc.com
---------------------
From: GBa...@aol.com
Subject: thanks on Kallyr; Vinga
Message-ID: <940906180...@aol.com>
Date: 6 Sep 94 22:03:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6082
Thanks to all who gave information on Kallyr Starbrow. She's seems a little
stubborn and bossy, hmmm, good qualities for a leader (and NPC) :)
Speaking of Vinga, I was about to ask if a cult write-up existed. Can
someone send me the original post about Vinga that several have replied to?
I just re-subscribed a few days ago.
Glen
---------------------
From: LAN...@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: Unsub
Message-ID: <009841B2.03...@hhcs.gov.au>
Date: 7 Sep 94 18:22:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6083
I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M
Date: Sent on: 07-Sep-1994 08:22am
From: Alistair Langsford
LANGSFORD ALISTAIR
Dept: Information Services
Tel No:289 7870
TO: Remote Addressee ( _rune...@glorantha.holland.sun.com )
Subject: Unsub
unsub list lan...@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
---------------------
From: DCOW...@UTMEM1.UTMEM.EDU
Subject: Questions
Message-ID: <01HGT1N8U...@UTMEM1.UTMEM.EDU>
Date: 6 Sep 94 15:37:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6084
Ok, here are some basic questions, and I hope the simplicity of them does not
offend anyone's _Detailed Gloranthan Lore Skill_
When a PC finds a magical item(say a Demoralize matrix) how does he know what
it is, and how does he discover how to make it funtion? With something like a
light matrix(where the focus would be the object itself) I can see where just
giving it MP would make it work, but what about when there has to be a target??
These things are not really discussed in RQ3, and I would like some
clarification.
Also, in Apple Lane's Rainbow Mounds there live(d) a creature known as The
Great Mother Lizard. In the RQ3 module, killing here imparted 2AP in all
locations to the beings standing in proximity to here when she died. After
dishing out this _reward_, an older RQ player told me that this is a chaotic
taint, and would detect as so by the appropriate spells. Your comments?
One last thing... with the adventure series found in The River of Cradles,
there is mention of the Cleansed One subcult of Zola Fel, and the trials this
broo went through to remove his taint. I have a PC wanting to run an orge
through this, but I don't even think Zola Fel would rescue him from drowning in
the openning of this adventure. If so, what wold be required of him to purge
himself of chaos(if he even wants to >:) ) Thanks for reading a newbee post.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: The Blue Wizard vents his spleen...
Message-ID: <01HGT7MT5...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 7 Sep 94 12:20:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6074
Big Posting today even without Henk's slipups.
Nils Weinander
==============
>>worshipping their avatars (Ehilm in KoL, Murharzarm in Dara Happa, Victorious
>>Zenith in Bliss in Ignorance and perhaps Solf in Teshnos - Nils?).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Actually it's Somash, Solf is the Teshnans debased version of Lodril.
>Anyway, it's a nice idea, which would explain why there are so many sun
>gods with so many names. I think I'll use it from now, and add Yang Long/
>Yang Ti in my version of Kralorela.
Mel culpae! I always keep getting the two confused! Who are Yang Long/Yang Ti
and where do they come from?
>OK, that's plausible, but back to the wind children of Storm walk mountains.
>They have feathered wings like a bird, yet they are storm creatures. Is there
>some wind child mythology which explains whence they came?
Blasphemous crossbreed of men and sylph is all I know. Probably a Dara Happan
Source.
Martin wrote
>I said:
>>>Gigantism is common on islands. Dunno anything about the
>>>Shetlands--maybe the first settlers wiped out any gigantic
>>>fauna, as the Maori did to the Moa.
>Peter ("Not Whitelaw") Metcalfe replied
>>I hate to be a pedant here.
> Come clean: you love it.
Alright, I attend Pedants anonymous meetings...
>>The Moa we show to naive foreigners the great big one died out
>>some time before the Maoris came. The ones that the maoris
>>exterminated were somewhat smaller and you would have been
>>lucky if it reached your shoulder.
> If that's what you Kiwis think lucky is, what's unlucky?
Swimming the Cook Strait and meeting a 10m long squid.
>>Also take back your vile implication that islands of New Zealand
>>is comparable to the Shetlands. The two main islands are more
>>on the scale of the British isles and much more pleasant.
> No, no, I was just rummaging around my brain for an example
>of a gigantic form of an animal on an island that I could cite
>with some authoritativeness (apparently not much, though). There
>were also gigantic fauna on some Mediterranean islands in like
>the second millennium B.C., but since I can't remember where I
>read about them, I didn't mention them the first go-round. The
>best-known example of island gigantism is probably the tortoises
>of the Galapagos Islands. The Galapagos also have a giant marine
>iguana (there's a lovely book called _The Flight of the Iguana_
>the cover of which shows Charles Darwin tossing a frightened-
>looking iguana into the water; these animals have no terrestrial
>predators, so they always swim directly back to shore, where Darwin stood,
>ready to toss them back in again; ah, Science).
Note all these examples are *cold blooded animals* like the dragons that
inhabit the Komodos. Discover did an excellent treatment on why this was so
some time back. I doubt that Warm blooded animals would exhibit gigantism on a
small windswept island. Otherwise Falklands Sheep would be the size of wooly
mammoths...
> As for the "much more pleasant" bit, I wouldn't know. I'd
>like to get there some day and have a look, possibly when the
>fascists complete their takeover of the U.S. government. (What's
>your political refugee policy?)
Immigration are a bunch of Arseholes, I'm afraid. If you land in New Zealand
without a passport and or visa and claim asylum, they try and send you back
thinking you're another immigrant wannabe. Best bet is to have useful skills
or lots of money.
Nick Brookes (my old nemesis)
>____________________
>The Golden Metcalfe:
Shouldn't that be the Blue Peter?
>> I think Naveria is actually the wife of Yelm. Given that Dendara is the
>> bright face of the Earth brightened by Yelm (and Gorgorma is the dark
>> face - look at the moon for what I describing), Dendara would be the
>> daughter of Yelm and when Yelm married her in Naveria (IMO this explains
>> why the land goddess Naveria is seen as the marriage aspect of Dendara)
>> this would fit the myth.
>"Faces" of the Earth? Dendara as Yelm's daughter? What on Glorantha is this
>man saying?
>Unless you are a devotee of the Max Muller school of myth-interpretation,
>there's nothing explicitly "Solar" in the Red King's story. The popular
>identification of the Red King with a (or *any*) Dara Happan emperor is a
>figment of the Net. Find one who fits the myth.
I'm sorry. I only heard about the red king myth on the net and nothing
indicated to me that he was red. He sounded Solar so I assumed and...
>> I should really explain my earlier posting and state that my belief is
>> that the Dara Happan cult of Yelm is actually worshipping the Sun through
>> the paths of Murharzarm.
>Perhaps the Dara Happan for "Yelm Imperator" is "Yelm Murharzarm"?
Could be...
>> In many ways this begins to parallel all the stories of the creation of
>> man I have seen. The Galanin are descended from Lofak, the Jenarong are
>> from Dara Happa whereas the Hyalorings are from Genert's wasted land.
>> Are there any other sources of horse that we don't know about?
>REALLY BIG warhorses arrived in Peloria with the Carmanians. These may have
>been descended/bred/improved from original Galanini non-Solar equine stock.
>Another of the Really Scary Things about Carmanian cavalry...
Persian analogies strike again. Would the Gloranthan analogue of a Parting
shot (corrupted from Parthian shot) be a 'Carping shot'?
>{Positively Nysalorian theory of truth expounded}
>Confusing, eh? Then again, the inevitable plurality of Truth (even the
>Truth Rune itself!) is described in one of the oldest Gloranthan myths,
>"Uleria and the Boggles".
I prefer to go by the tried and true method of higher criticism and assume that
what they wrote was what they thought was truth and try and identify any
distortion that may have occured and in the manuscript copies.
__Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: ...and Joerg.
Message-ID: <01HGTAFJ0...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 7 Sep 94 13:40:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6077
Joerg Writes
============
>> My attempts at exigesis make me think that Minaryths history is more acurate
>> than the history in the CHDP. He was writing from year to year on the most
>> important thing that happened that year.
>Not necessarily. IMO he collected his memories and connected each event or
>cluster of events to a date. In doing so, he might have associated events
>that occured in one season to one entry, but events three seasons apart
>can well be confused with events in separate years, especially if viewed
>in hindsight.
He gets the pre 1625 dates that can be identified pretty well enough.
>> 2) Neither Moraides, Sartar nor Tarkalor were ever Kings of Dragon Pass.
>I have tried to convince Peter in private that this is nonsense, but
>I'd appreciate some help by others doing so in private.
Pleading for reinforcements, Joerg?
>> 3) Illaro died in attempting to become the King of Dragon pass. As a result
>> in tarsh, Coitus interruptus is known as Illaroism.
>Illaro died as part of the seven-year-king ritual introduced by the
>bloody earth cult of Old Tarsh. Their cult seems to combine worship
>of Maran Gor and Kero Fin in that they use the destructive earth aspects
>of Maran Gor in battle, yet they also receive fertility from this worship
>through the sacrifice of their sacred kings _or their challengers_.
Ovartien did not rule for a multiple of seven years and neither does Illaro
blacktooth. Sorana Tor is incarnated in 1455 and Ilaro marries her. He dies
15 years later. Tastinum the only other person of the Ilaro dynasty to rule
precisely seven years, is stated as being killed by Telmori who do not worship
Maran Gor/Kero Fin or figure in any of her mythology.
>> 4) Any idea that the Ilaro dynasty of Tarsh practiced a sacrifical reign of
>> seven years is complete crap. For an idea of what really happened,
>> calculate how old Marofdul must have been at the time of his fathers death.
>Since we have no date of birth, and marriage among Orlanthi occurs between
>age 15 and age 20, Marofdul could have been just 18 years younger than his
>father.
Sorana Tor was incarnated in 1455 in page 122 of KoS. She then married Ilaro
Blacktooth. Tastinum is stated as being an offspring of her thus being born in
1456 ST. This means that he would have been of the marriagable age in 1470 ST
which places a limit (and quite a low one) on Marofduls age.
>> 5) Part six of the Argrath Saga is actually a fusion of two seperate phases.
>> One pulls down the Red Moon and the other is connected to another fragment
>> in the book. Ask yourself this: Why does Argrath send for help from the
>> six directions when His gods are already walking with him?
>To reenact the monster-slaying quest, in which the Storm gods always
>summoned help from all directions.
But he gets heros from that when he has gods walking by his side...And also how
does Joerg fit in the *other* document then, given that Two difeerent
resolutions are described.
>> 6)The Feathered Queen of the Kerofini temple is not the same as the feathered
>> horse queen. To become King of Dragon Pass does not entail marrying them.
>Another bit of wild speculation I try to hammer out of Peter's mailings.
>The Kero Fin temple would not have a _feathered_ queen.
Page 127 of KoS under King Moraides
"Emboldened by his vision of his Kingdom, Moraides set out to improve it even
more by marrying the *Feathered Queen of the Kerrofini Temple*."
You were saying Joerg?
>Peter seems to
>ignore p.113 of KoS, where it is stated that the leader of the Grazer
>wives' cult (La-ungariant in her aspect as horse, i.e. Arandayla) went
>deep into the earth and returned with powers alien to the Solar horse
>people.
given that deep into the earth carries connotactions of Sexual intercourse and
Lodrilism, this could have just been a slur cast by a chronicler which was
picked up and recited as fact.
p227 merely sees she dicovered her sisters.
>These powers were the powers of Kero Fin, whose avatar the
>Feathered Horse Queen had become in her heroquest. The former avatar,
>Sorana Tor, had been changed to Maran Gor and could no longer grant
>the fertility of the kingdom after Hon-eel had stolen these powers for
>the Lunars.
La-ungariant is the wife of the sun and she is associated with horses not earth
worship. Furthermore if Sorana Tor or her successor is now the incarnation of
Maran Gor why then does Moraides manage to marry her?
>> 7) Argrath had nothing to do with the Awakening of the Brown Dragon.
>>By Argrath, I mean Argrath Venharlson who later became Prince Argrath in 1631
>>ST.
>This includes two statements of Peter: the first statement he makes is
>that Argrath wasn't one of the seven dancers. Given that Argrath has
>a reputation to be a dragonfriend, and versed in EWF magics, he would be
>a likely candidate to participate in this ritual.
EWF magics, demonstrated by the summoning of wyverns at Corflu. [Serious
sarcasm here to those who do not have the cradle adventure.] The knowledge to
awaken the brown dragon was amply provided by Oralont Dragonman. Why then is
Argarth not mentioned?
>As CHDP says, some of
>them prayed (e.g. Minaryth Purple), some of them concentrated (Orlaront),
>and some of them killed. Garrath Sharpsword of Pavis seems the ideal
>candidate for the latter category.
So could plenty of other people.
>However, Peter goes even further and denies any friendly connection
>between Argrath and both Minaryth and Orlaront prior to his enthronement.
>Peter argues that Minaryth was known as a staunch supporter of Kallyr in
>the 1613 rebellion, and that both Minaryth and Orlaront are mentioned
>as Kallyr's companions in the 1625 short LBQ.
>IMO this only indicates that both Minaryth and Orlaront are good Sartarite
>patriots who lend a hand to whoever tries to free the land.
Minaryth has never been cited as one of Argrath's companions in his quests.
It's just that Argrath had the shit kicked out of him by tatius's demon which
makes me severely doubt that he particpated in the Brown Dragon Quest.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: oops...
Message-ID: <940906071...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 6 Sep 94 08:18:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6069
> From RuneQuest-Request@glorantha Tue Sep 6 09:16 MET 1994
> Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 09:15:25 +0200
> Message-Id: <940906071...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
> From: RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
> To: Rune...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
> Reply-To: Rune...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
> Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 06 Sep 1994, part 1
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> X-RQ-ID: Intro
>
> This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
> the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
> world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
> format.
>
> More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
> after the last message in this digest.
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>
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: out.going/rq-daily/index
6085:duncan.h...@afrc.ac.uk (HEDDERLE) - Animals...
6086:duncan.h...@afrc.ac.uk (HEDDERLE) - Animals... (II)
6087:ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander) - Yang Long & flogging a dead moose
6088:j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner) - A linguistic analysis of the Dara Happan emperors' names
6089:JAR...@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK - Ian Gorlick trying to unsub for a while
6090:cai...@tabarly.saclay.cea.fr (Jerome Caille) - Spirits
6091:wat...@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson) - Identifying items; Removing Chaos taints
6092:jo...@hyphen.com (Jon Green) - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 07 Sep 1994, part 1
6093:MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 07 Sep 1994, part 2
6094:jonas....@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott) - The questions in X-RQ-ID: 6084.
6095:shil...@gatwick.Geco-Prakla.slb.com - Loung Lizards and skin armour
6097:lo...@hops.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller) - Re: Zola Fel and the Ogre
6098:Dev...@aol.com - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 04 Sep 1994, part 1
6099:mmor...@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706) - RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 06 Sep 1994, part 2
6100:san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 07 Sep 1994
6101:mmor...@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706) - RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 06 Sep 1994, part 4
6102:phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden) - Cambell
6103:Mike.D...@vuw.ac.nz - Oh Deer, Islands, and the Silk Tree
6104:Arg...@aol.com - This subject cannot be indexed
6105:jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) - Vinga's relationships
6106:jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) - Another teaser from my warped, wild, and wierd Glorantha
6107:gbo...@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu - Comments on the comments on my comments...
---------------------
From: duncan.h...@afrc.ac.uk (HEDDERLE)
Subject: Animals...
Message-ID: <6834490807091994_A03717_FRIR_11893A2F3B00*@MHS>
Date: 7 Sep 94 10:49:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6085
Couple of beastly thoughts...
(i) Don't want to get dragged into the gigantism thread (what _did_ start it?),
but I seem to remember reading something about
---------------------
From: duncan.h...@afrc.ac.uk (HEDDERLE)
Subject: Animals... (II)
Message-ID: <4206580807091994_A03735_FRIR_11893A321000*@MHS>
Date: 7 Sep 94 10:58:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6086
Sorry about that earlier mispost - realised halfway thru' writing it that the
PYGMY hippo remains on Crete aren't relevant to the gigantism debate at all (!)
However, in the trade notes debate, someone wrote that the praxian nomads might
sell their weaker beasts. Seems possible (though a bit 'modern' - I'd expect
traditionalists to do soemthing more ritualistic) - if so, surely there's a
scenario/potential scam/Griselda story in there, with a sharp Pavis trader
trying to sell knackered herd-beasts to Lunar settlers (who don't know what a
knackered herd-beast looks like, but do know that horses are unacceptable)
Also on trade-notes: what kind of sicko would _want_ to buy/eat troll-produced
food (grub?)..?
PS Could someone send me a copy of the trade notes? Thanks
Duncan Hedderley
---------------------
From: ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Yang Long & flogging a dead moose
Message-ID: <940907082...@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 7 Sep 94 12:23:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6087
Nils Weinander writing
Peter "Blue wizard" Metcalfe:
>Mel culpae! I always keep getting the two confused! Who are Yang Long/Yang Ti
> and where do they come from?
They come from my imagination mostly. I suggested that the Kralorelans,
at least those of a more mystic/draconic bent have draconic names for
the sky gods, e.g.
Yang Long, the Sun Dragon = Yelm (not to be confused with the EWF Sun Dragon)
Tien Long, the Celestial Dragon = Dayzatar (not to be confused with Tien)
Arun Long, the Fiery Dragon = Lodril
etc., (yes I know that the names are pseudo-chinese). However, those who
worship the gods in a more standard cult fashion instead call the sun
Yang Ti, the Sun Lord.
I won't go into further details since it's all been said in some Kralorelan
stories I posted earlier (june I think). I have them around, so if
anyone missed them and is interested, contact me by e-mail.
_____
The great moose debate continues:
Sandy:
> Great Elk, usually termed "Irish Elk" for mysterious reasons,
> were smaller than the moose in the body, but with much larger,
> palmate, antlers. Like the moose, they probably only rarely fought
> over females by pounding their heads together, but mainly relied on
> impressing the females with their love calls and huge antlers.
I was under the impression that moose _do_ use their antlers to fight
each other in mating season. At least I think they do so here in
Sweden.
_____
On dwarf and giant versions of animals: on Cyprus there were dwarf
hippopotamus and giant mice in times past. I don't know whether they
were of the same size though.
_____
/Nils W
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: A linguistic analysis of the Dara Happan emperors' names
Message-ID: <H.ea.exT...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 7 Sep 94 09:26:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6088
Alex Ferguson gets puzzled in X-RQ-ID: 6057
> Pelandan culture is pretty much extinct, so the Dara Happan version is
> the Official Line. (I think Greg (and Nick) only mentioned the Pelandan
> "dating" when we squeezed it out of him afterwards.)
Dara Happan culture has been thoroughly Lunarized, so what the Emperor
says is true (not only just).
>> The same would apply to the planetary deities, the children of Yelm
>> and Dendara. Still we have no incling what makes a stellar body a moon.
>> Is it the "glow that is not light"?
> It's "thing I point to when I say `moon'". Given that Glorantha has only
> had two (or so) a case by case "definition" isn't very hard.
Or so. The Seshnegi referred to the southpath planets as moons in older
sources. Does this give the moon rune to Tolat?
>> The Pelorian Earth Rune might well be round. After all, the Pelorian bowl
>> is roughly round as well.
> Given Lodril's association with squareness, I doubt this.
Well, the Pelorian rune for deep fire is square. See GRoY pp.
13 (Akuturos), 25 (Elvtios), and 63 (Lodril's staff).
>> Even the name Yelm seems to have been adopted from the Theyalans, who
>> might have found it elsewhere - did they ever contact Kralorela?
> I doubt this, but the Pentans clearly contact both.
After the destruction of Nivorah.
> And the historical
> (as opposed to Merely Mythic) worship of Yelm dates _after_ the nomad
> occupation of Peloria.
Who do you think was worshipped by the nomads? Kargzant? Who is now?
>> It coexists with "davu", probably another gentile deity.
> Explain this one to me more slowly.
davu, or in later names devu, is a name component. A lot of names are
composits of other names, and not a few of these names ultimately lead
to a deity, at least in Germanic languages. Take for example the nordic
name Thorstein, which is a composite of Thor (no explanation necessary)
and Stein. Stein is used in other combinations as well: Karstein, Steinkel.
I looked at the names of Dara Happan deities, lands and persons and
tried to find common elements. This is my yield:
-addi, -iddi:
Kestinaddi, Kostaddi, Rinliddi
-agern:
Selagern, Berneel Arashgern
Anir-:
(probably from Antir-)
Anirdavu, Anirmesha, Anirestyu, Desikanir
Arir-:
Arir, Arira, Ariralves
Arth-:
(overseer)
Asharthcha, Indarthrad, Nemarthshar, Vanarthurd
Ash-:
(north)
Asharthcha, Ashrill, Shargash (?)
Avi-:
(avenger?)
Avivath, Avikentus, Avintus, Avinus, Avisteknus, Avivorus
Buse-
(cattle?)
Buserian (priest=offerer of cattle), Busenari
Dara-:
(land, earth?)
Dara Happa, Dara Ni, Dendara, Darsen, Darjiin
Darved-:
Darvedeskorgos, Darvedashu
-davu, later -devu:
Anirdavu, Khordavu, Radaidavu, Erraibdavu, Fenaldevu, Asvekhordevu
Den-:
(good?)
Dendara, Dendeneus (doubly), Khordeneus, Denesiod, Hurdendus
Desh-:
(apparently a Pelandan syllable, since the later emperors of this name
are Carmanian dragonslayers)
(dark?)
Deshkorgos, Deshlotralas, Heredesh, Kewetdesh, Kumardesh
Desik-:
Desikselm, Desikanir
-elm:
(sun?)
Anirinelm, Khorzanelm, Wanthanelm, Mahzanelm, Erzanelm, Khorzanelm,
Desikselm, Elmharsnik, Elmexdros, Elmatrian, Ullikarelm, Yelm
-entos:
Khorventos, Nestentos
Erzan-:
Erzanelm, Erzandavu, Erzanlavus, Erzanestyu
-esiod:
(a family element?)
Denesiod, Elmesiod, Dismesiod
-estyu:
(-yu maybe separate? I suspect something like "like god")
Anirestyu, Ordanestyu, Erzanestyu, Kumarstyu, Vinyartyu
Esven-
Esvenratha, Esventheus
-gat, -goth, -koth
(house)
Veskerelgat, Alkoth, Hargoth
-gatha:
Spengatha, Yelmgatha
Ghe-:
Ghevengus, Ghelotralas
-henjar:
Mohenjar, Henjari
In(d)-:
(yellow, east, good?)
Injerina, Indarthrad
-jerina:
(sister?)
Bosjerina, Injerina
-kantus, -kentus
Meslatkantus, Merbeskentus
Ken-:
Kendathalus, Kenervus, Kenstrata
Kest-:
(something to do with birds and Rinliddi)
Kestinoros, Kestinendos, (Kesium)
Kewet-:
(apparently Pelandan)
Kewetdesh, Kewetdesvus, Kewetdroni
Khor-:
Khorventos, Khordeneus, Khormesha, Khorzanelm, Khordavu, Khorviramaka,
Khorkestinus
-kos:
(jar, plenty?)
Entekos, Nasakos, Kerekos
Kumar-:
(apparently Pelandan)
Kumardesh, Kumarstyu, Kumardroni
lat-:
Latestus, Latkantus, Latpuvus
-lavus:
Manarlavus, Vanestalavus
Lotralas:
Lodril, Ghelolotralas, Deshlotralas
Luk-:
(light)
Lukarius, Luxites
Man-:
Manarlavus, Manimat
-mat, -met:
Vanyoramet, Manimat
-mesha:
Raibmesha, Anirmesha
-mexdros:
(a family element?)
Elmexdros, Dismexdros, Karmexdros
-nari:
(nourisher? goddess?)
Busenari, Ertelenari, Ketenari, Memenari, Vergenari
-nervus:
Kenervus, Kosganervus
Ordan-:
(Ordanus is an office)
Ordanus, Ordanestyu
Oro-:
(Pelorian)
Orogoros, Oronin, Oropum, Oroypsus, Senthoros (?)
-pur:
(city)
Elempur, Verapur
Raib-:
Raibamus, Raibanth, Raibmesha, Erraibdavu
Renelad-:
Renelada, Rinliddi
Shar-:
(red?)
Nemarthshar, Shargash
-sib:
(from Alkoth)
Eusibus, Biselensib
-stum:
Lerustum, Vuranostum
Ur-:
Urengerum, Urvairinus, Urvairadatu, Uryarda, Urengeri, Urstenni
Urvair-:
(Ur-?)
Urvairinus, Urvairadatu
Van-:
(king, sovereign?)
Vanyoramet, Vanestalavus, Vantestos, Vanarthurd
Veng:
(bird-?)
Veng, Ghevengus
Viramak-:
Vrimak, Viramakradda, Khorviramak
Voran-, Vuran-:
Vuranostum, Vurturnus, Vorandevu
Yu-, Yuthu-:
Yuthu, Yuthuppa, Yuthubars, Yu-Kargzant, Yu-Elm (Yelm)
Use these syllables for generating Dara Happan names, if you want,
or speculate about the meanings.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: JAR...@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Ian Gorlick trying to unsub for a while
Message-ID: <9409070927.AA10235@Sun.COM>
Date: 7 Sep 94 09:29:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6089
Henk
I'm not posting this to the Request line because I don't know how it
would handle it. Ian Gorlick emailed me to say he wants to unsubscribe for
a while, but keeps getting his messages bounced. If he doesn't get through
directly can you do this for him.
Cheers
Lewis
---------------------
From: cai...@tabarly.saclay.cea.fr (Jerome Caille)
Subject: Spirits
Message-ID: <caille.17...@tabarly.saclay.cea.fr>
Date: 7 Sep 94 14:14:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6090
Hi Digesters!
I've got a question for all you Greg Learners, it's quite simple but my
friends and i couldn't answer it: Is it possible for a spirit to possess a
Dream Dragon? This came in my mind when playing in Borderlands, will a broo
shaman be able to control this creature; the dragon is not really one but it
still has got power, will the real one behind the dream notice the possesion?
What reaction to expect? Nightmares?
Now and idea for a beginning campaign, this is always hard for game masters
and players to start with PC with no background; even if you imagine one
it's artificial ,the taste is bad, you know. So why not start without any
background! It sounds something like this: make your players roll for INT and
POW. They will begin life has spirits.Do not tell them! Has they awaken they
are attacked by a group of NPC who have come to this pool of spirit (say in
Snake Pipe Hollow) for binding. The description must be from the spirit point
of view, all they can 'see' is POW and the other spirits who will soon attack
the NPC for possesion. If your players act has we did they will join the melee
to gain a body. Some will be bind , other will soon get possesion of their new
player character and begin adventuring, choosing religion etc.. The fun is
that we didn't realise we were spirits for a time, it was confusing. We didn't
neither choose what race we were going to play. This form of introduction was
a great surprise for us. And we enjoyed very much. I think it's best to do it
with experienced players who will try to put this confusion into form, without
succeding, for a time.
I hope you like the idea , let me know the reactions of your players if you
try it.
Jerome
Ria knip sah erialc tenalp
Der era seert eht lla
Ereht seid reven eno on
Daeh a sah eno on
---------------------
From: wat...@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Identifying items; Removing Chaos taints
Message-ID: <1994090712...@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 7 Sep 94 14:42:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6091
________
DCOWLING wonders:
>When a PC finds a magical item(say a Demoralize matrix) how does he know what
>it is, and how does he discover how to make it funtion?
This is how we play it:
A spell matrix gives you knowledge of a spell while you're in contact with it.
Hence you generally know which spell a matrix holds when you touch it because
your mind is flooded with new arcane knowledge (assuming there are no
conditions to stop you using it).
Similarly, you're generally aware of a bound creature when you touch a
binding enchantment. You can communicate with the spirit unless there are
conditions set to stop you, so it's not too hard to find out what a bound
spirit is and what it can do.
Basically, in general, anything which extends your personal capabilities
(giving you more MP, knowledge of spells or whatever) is apparent when you
touch an item. Other enchantments such as Armouring or *empty* Binding
enchantments can't be identified so easily (you require Mystic Vision or such
to find out about them). Likewise, any item which has special conditions on
it might be more difficult to identify.
>One last thing... with the adventure series found in The River of Cradles,
>there is mention of the Cleansed One subcult of Zola Fel, and the trials this
>broo went through to remove his taint. I have a PC wanting to run an orge
>through this, but I don't even think Zola Fel would rescue him from drowning
>in the openning of this adventure. If so, what wold be required of him to
>purge himself of chaos(if he even wants to >:) )
I asked a similar question nearly a year ago (25 Oct 93, X-RQ-ID: 2087)
"Is it possible to remove the taint of Chaos from a creature?"
In summary, the responses varied:
A/ No.
B/ Yes, but it would take a mighty HeroQuest.
(Nick mentioned the Blood of Arroin [CA's son] as a possible "cure".)
C/ Yes, Divine Intervention would do it.
D/ Who cares, if you're Illuminated? ):-)
The concensus was that it would at least require the sincere cooperation of the
individual being cleansed.
For full responses check out the RQ-Daily archive at soda.berkeley.edu
(if you have FTP access).
___
CW.
---------------------
From: jo...@hyphen.com (Jon Green)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 07 Sep 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <13716.94...@diss.hyphen.com>
Date: 7 Sep 94 13:37:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6092
Harald in X-RQ-ID: 6078:
> I did note David Hall's comment regarding the discussion though.
> If others find it to be a complex mind-numbing, soul-zapping spell
> devised by hideous Godlearners, I'll be happy to take the
> discussion offline.
>
It's probably fascinating to a subgroup of those who've read GRaY, but it's
not too meaningful to the rest. FWIW, my vote would be: yes, please take it
offline, but summarise when ideas have been distilled.
DCOWLING (what's your real name?) in X-RQ-ID: 6084:
> Ok, here are some basic questions, and I hope the simplicity of them does not
> offend anyone's _Detailed Gloranthan Lore Skill_
>
The mailing list has become a little academic of late - but if it can't
welcome newbies, it deserves to perish!
> When a PC finds a magical item(say a Demoralize matrix) how does he know what
> it is, and how does he discover how to make it funtion? With something like a
> light matrix(where the focus would be the object itself) I can see where just
> giving it MP would make it work, but what about when there has to be a target??
> These things are not really discussed in RQ3, and I would like some
> clarification.
>
I had a PC try to do this in extremis. She and the rest of her party had
been captured and tethered with chains to trees. She had recovered an
obviously magic wand (kaZamm! Oops, sorry...) from the body of a previous
attacker, and had never given it much thought before. It was dark, but
there was a bright watchfire burning. She managed to get this stick out of
her boot and plant in in the soil without being seen. Normally, it takes
abour an hour to attune a matrix before it's suitable for use, and sometimes,
depending on the item, you might even need to sacrifice permanent POW in
an appropriate enchantment to "activate" it. This was not such an article;
it was a simple Spirit matrix. Here's how I play foci and matrices:
I imagine attunement thus: the focus or matrix itself is a complex mandala
comprised, in part, of the cultic Runes of the maker and the pertinent
Runes of the spell itself, embedded in a detailed pattern which
reflects the modes of thought of the maker when casting the spell from
his/her own memory. This last part is what makes using someone else's
focus so difficult at first. In order to use the article, you have to
come to an understanding of the mode of thought of the maker. That's a
bit difficult to describe, but, when you've succeeded, you know. A
revelation of the "Oh *that's* how it's done! How obvious!" sort.
A matrix isn't that easy to tell from a focus. The enchantment which
originally created a matrix imbues the focus (whose mandala is almost
the same) with a portion of the soul of its creator. Attunement to a
matrix has the added effect of "synchronising" your soul with that of
the maker, which succeeds simultaneously with the mental attunement.
Just as a side-issue, if you play attunement and matrices in this way,
beware of them, and don't use them unless they've been checked first by
a Sage (for a price, of course). The problem is this: if a focus
was created by an Illuminate, you may find yourself a step further on
the Path of Enlightenment as you become familiar with the maker's
thought style. It is even possible that Illuminates who know how to do
this can create false (meaningless) foci in order to assist the
tight-fisted or desperate Unknowing along their Path.
Even worse, if a matrix (not a focus) was created by a Chaot, you could
inherit part of that inherent chaos as you attune your own soul to that
of its maker.
Anyway, back to the plot. Gil took over two hours, by the flickering
light of the fire, before she attuned the matrix. But attunement merely
conveys the ability to use, and doesn't necessarily give an understanding
of what the object is. She pumped a few MPs through it, deliberately
using it as a focus on one of the guards. A dim red line flicked
between the two, and the guard jumped up, screaming! It transpired that
the wand comprised a Disruption matrix - Gil had struck lucky. All she
had to do now:-) was to free herself and defeat the nine guards...
BTW, the Yelmalio/Vrimak/Hawk Mother writeup will appear soon, honest!
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 07 Sep 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <01HGUMP0W...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 8 Sep 94 10:43:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6093
G'day,
____________
Out of Print
David Hall, the One True David, writes:
>The following items are now out of print:
>All issues of Tales prior to issue #11
I have 10 copies of issue #10 (Sea Special) left in Reaching Moon Megacorp's
Aussie vaults. These are available for A$6.50 + A$2.65 p&p (Australia),
or A$6.50 + A$5.50 postage (for Air Mail to most parts of the rest of
the world).
I also have 7 copies of the RQ Con Book left! These are also A$6.50 + A$2.65
p&p (Australia), or A$6.50 + A$5.50 postage (for Air Mail to most parts of
the rest of the world).
Please ensure payments are in Australian Dollars (the ones with the kangaroos
on them)
David also writes:
>Shargash/Entekos/Antirinausia:
>
>I hesitate to say this, but does anyone else out there find all of this
>endless analysis and investigation of the Glorious ReAscent obscure,
>over-complex, over-blown and completely irrelevant! It all fails to
>interest, excite or inspire me. How can any of this waffle help me GM or
>play the damn game?
>
>OK, OK, so I can just skip over these bits. But these days I seem to be
>skipping over most of the digest...
I second this motion! The thing that interested me the most on the daily
lately has been the speculation that Morokanth park for the night on
top of Prarie Dog colonies so raiding nomads risk breaking their mounts
legs. Now that's something I can do things with!
May I also add to David's complaint that I flicked through the endless
discussions about various types of deers and mooses of late with
increasingly torpid disinterest. Let's move onto something else (are
there lemming hsunchen in Glorantha?)
Cheers
MOB
---------------------
From: jonas....@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: The questions in X-RQ-ID: 6084.
Message-ID: <940907145...@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 7 Sep 94 18:51:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6094
>When a PC finds a magical item(say a Demoralize matrix) how does he know what
>it is,
Analyze Magic. Also, I would say that a matrix for a spell should have a
focus for that same spell on it, and a person who knows the spell should be
able to recognize the focus.
>and how does he discover how to make it funtion?
Basic Gloranthan knowledge, part of What Your Father/Mother/Whatever Told
You: you charge it up with a MP or three, focus on the desired target and
hey presto! Instant Magic! :-)
>an older RQ player told me that this [the Lizard Mother's blood armor] is a
>>chaotic taint, and would detect as so by the appropriate spells. Your
>comments?
This "older RQ player" is obviously a worshipper of the Bull. He's full of
it, at any rate. ;-) Seriously though, has he _read_ the scenario, or has
he just played in it and fumbled his Sense Chaos roll?
Dunno about RoC.
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
---------------------
From: shil...@gatwick.Geco-Prakla.slb.com
Subject: Loung Lizards and skin armour
Message-ID: <940907153...@icarus.gatwick.Geco-Prakla.slb.com>
Date: 7 Sep 94 15:33:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6095
DCOW...@UTMEM1.UTMEM.EDU
in X-RQ-ID: 6084
asks about skin armour from the mummy lizard in Apple Lane (amongst other questions). I would say that your mate was wrong, in that I see the blood drying on the PC's skin into a sort of second skin. It is natural, (after all the lizard had skin armour), and was NOT chaotic. Of course I could be talking a right load of tosh, but I actually had Uroxi who picked up this skin armour, and they made a point of trying to detect chaos on it and they failed - and when have Uroxi ever been wrong ? :-)
Neil S.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: lo...@hops.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller)
Subject: Re: Zola Fel and the Ogre
Message-ID: <9409071822.AA01533@Sun.COM>
Date: 7 Sep 94 10:24:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6097
DCOW...@UTMEM1.UTMEM.EDU asks:
> When a PC finds a magical item(say a Demoralize matrix) how does he know what
> it is, and how does he discover how to make it funtion? With something like a
> light matrix(where the focus would be the object itself) I can see where just
> giving it MP would make it work, but what about when there has to be a target??
You have lots of choices.
1. Trial and error, keep pointing it at friends (?) and concentrating
real hard (and spending MP) until something happens. Obviously, this
isn't going to make you very popular.
2. Take it to a Lhankor Mhy temple and get them to identify
it. Obviously, this isn't going to be affordable for most homeless
adventurers.
3. Give it to somebody else and see what happens. Then steal it back
if it turns out to be useful.
> Also, in Apple Lane's Rainbow Mounds there live(d) a creature known as The
> Great Mother Lizard. In the RQ3 module, killing here imparted 2AP in all
> locations to the beings standing in proximity to here when she died. After
> dishing out this _reward_, an older RQ player told me that this is a chaotic
> taint, and would detect as so by the appropriate spells. Your comments?
I don't believe it. There are a lot of leftover casual mentions of
things as "chaotic taints" in RQ2 and RQ3 products that should be
ignored. Greg Stafford told me once that Giants and Cave Trolls *do
NOT* have chaotic taints no matter what the monster listings say, so
IMHO you should ignore the chaos taint claim for the Mother of Lizards
too. Besides, seems to me she should have an Earth taint if she is
tainted with any Rune.
> One last thing... with the adventure series found in The River of Cradles,
> there is mention of the Cleansed One subcult of Zola Fel, and the trials this
> broo went through to remove his taint. I have a PC wanting to run an orge
> through this, but I don't even think Zola Fel would rescue him from drowning in
> the openning of this adventure.
I tend to agree. I'd think that an ogre would be rejected for this
particular task, and would probably end up at the bottom of the river
trying hard to learn how to breathe water. Easy answer: NO CHAOS
BEINGS FOR PLAYER CHARACTERS! Actually, that's a good rule to follow
most of the time anyway.
--
Loren Miller <lo...@hops.wharton.upenn.edu>
I can tell by your shoes that you are a lover of liberty
---------------------
From: Dev...@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 04 Sep 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940907155...@aol.com>
Date: 7 Sep 94 19:51:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6098
Devin here:
Joerg writes:
"I think this is not the case. IMO Divination will yield only the personal
(and thereby cultural) opinion of the caster, the deity seems to operate
on the basis "if you feel you're in the right, so be it". (Don't howl,
Devin)"
AAARRRROOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, viz a viz the theory that Yelm is now a composite of individual DH city
sun gods....well.....maybe Greg's work should be renamed the Glorious
Deconstruction of Yelm (GDoY) ;-)
Nick writes:
" Devin will of course comment on this parallel, and on that to
the Drowning of Ys. Good. I like parallel myths. Tells me I'm on the right
path..."
You've got me all wrong....I like the fact that Terran myths parallel
Gloranthan myths...no... I mean Gloranthan myths parallel Terran
myths.....because it helps when I am running a campaign in Terra....no....I
mean Glorantha....because I want my players to experience a really exotic and
unique setting like Earth....oops...I mean Glorantha!
David Hall writes:
"I hesitate to say this, but does anyone else out there find all of this
endless analysis and investigation of the Glorious ReAscent obscure,
over-complex, over-blown and completely irrelevant!"
Bless you my son!
" It all fails to
interest, excite or inspire me. How can any of this waffle help me GM or
play the damn game? "
Oh...that's right...it's still a game too!
Jonas writes:
"Dunno what Joerg needs to know, but I have to admit that I too sometimes
feel a strange yearning for the 'real story'. Is this just an inability to
deal with a fluid and changing world-picture? Maybe, but I think the main
reason is technical. When describing the differences between the local
variations, it's useful to have a sort of neutral blueprint, a standard of
measurement to apply. What will such a blueprint look like in practice? I
guess it would be a colorless, flavorless, not very exciting collection of
stories and attributes that would define 'the basic Orlanth', for example.
Even if there is a great deal of regional variation, there have to be some
sort of minimum requirements for what constitutes a cult of <whoever>.
I know that a lot of people will cry out against this sort of
'standardization', but I think that if we're going to discuss Glorantha on
any scale but the extremely local, we need it. Otherwise we'll be reduced
to describing one little community each, with deities and myths unknown
anywhere else in the world. Which to me defeats the purpose of gaming in
Glorantha.
I've got a few more things to say on this subject, but I'll wait for the
flames to descend first..."
No flames from me Jonas...my position on this matter (in agreeement with
yours) is nigh infamous. Regional variations must and certainly do exist, but
we as gamers/God Learners could certainly do with a baseline "truth" from
which variations spring forth and diverge.
Chris asks:
"Are there any other people who have bought the new Deluxe Edition RQ3 book
and had a problem with pages falling out?
My group has bought 7 copies, 5 have pages out and one has loose pages(the
owner is VERY carful - NOW). The owner of the 7th, I've lost touch with.
How common is this?"
My pages have just now started to fall out. I despise both the AH paper
covers with staples and the RQ Renaissance bindings. Both are wholly
inadequate, and I would rather see a more durable, if expensive, binding.
D. Cowling writes:
"When a PC finds a magical item(say a Demoralize matrix) how does he know
what
it is, and how does he discover how to make it funtion? With something like
a
light matrix(where the focus would be the object itself) I can see where just
giving it MP would make it work, but what about when there has to be a
target??
These things are not really discussed in RQ3, and I would like some
clarification."
I have always run that simply meditating upon the matrix (i.e. attuning it)
will gaive a very good idea of its function...especially with regard to
common effects like demoralization. Putting MP in it and pointing it at an
enemy is probably a good idea as well.
"Also, in Apple Lane's Rainbow Mounds there live(d) a creature known as The
Great Mother Lizard. In the RQ3 module, killing here imparted 2AP in all
locations to the beings standing in proximity to here when she died. After
dishing out this _reward_, an older RQ player told me that this is a chaotic
taint, and would detect as so by the appropriate spells. Your comments?"
Not Chaos, although I suppose any Stormbull who noted strange skin colouring
and texture on someone might equate it with Chaos, but the Mother of Lizards
is certainly not Chaos connected. I view this more as a quasi hero-quest type
effect, much like the gifts gained in the Vomiter adventure in SiP.
Sarcastically yours,
Devin
dev...@aol.com
Bless you my son!
---------------------
From: mmor...@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 06 Sep 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <1994Sep7.1...@vnet.ibm.com>
Date: 7 Sep 94 20:13:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6099
*** Reply to note of Tue, 6 Sep 94 12:05:04 +0200
*** by RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Alex writes:
A>In fact, I think the existing RQ rules have sacrificing for a spell the
A>first time about right. What I dislike is all this yucky business with
A>"taking several uses" of a spell, as we'd say in the Bad Old Days when
A>I played D&D. Not just from a MGF point of view, but because doing the
A>same heroquest again doesn't make sense, Gloranthanically. As the old
A>Esrolian proverb says, "The same woman cannot swim in the River twice".
I like the idea of a minor, ritualised, HQ to gain first use of Rune
(Divine) Magic. I agree that repeating the ritual makes no sense.
IMHO, to get "several uses" of a spell you simply sacrifice more POW,
using the Rune Spell Path you've already established (in your ritual).
Thus, getting additional uses of non-stackable (or one use) spells
is the same as getting more points of a stackable spell. Whether or
not you use the Rune Pool System (correct name?), your first use of a
spell is like buying a box, into which you store more and more POW.
Now, in light of the concerns about refuse, maybe your Esrolian
proverb should be: "The sane woman does not swim in the River twice".
Michael
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael C. Morrison IMS Information Development Tieline 8-543-4706
Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California (SWS) Phone (408)463-4706
Bitnet ID: MCM at VNET Fax (408)463-4101
Internet ID: MMOR...@VNET.IBM.COM or USIB...@IBMMAIL.COM
IBM Mail Exchange ID: USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL or USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL
X.400 Address: G=mcmgm; S=morrison; P=ibmmail; A=ibmx400; C=us
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 07 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <940907213...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 7 Sep 94 09:35:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6100
Dcowling asks:
>When a PC finds a magical item(say a Demoralize matrix) how does he
>know what it is, and how does he discover how to make it funtion?
There exist a small number of simple tests which any
Glorantha familiar with magic can try. Here is a list of the simplest
(other folks may suggest more elaborate techniques).
1) try to store MPs in the object. Try to take them out
again. No luck? Probably not an MP-storage device. Dang.
2) attempt to cast a spell via the object. If nothing
happens, try again, this time focusing on the PC you care for the
least. Hmm. Won't cast a spell.
3) Try to command something to leave the object (maybe it
holds an elemental or spirit). The problem with this technique is, if
it works, the spirit is gone and you gotta get a new one.
4) Take the damn thing to the Lhankor Mhy temple and pay your
$$$ like a man to have it analyzed. My players hate to do this, but
since most artifacts respond to the first 3 rules, only the unusual
ones get the special treatment.
>The Great Mother Lizard['s death] imparted 2AP in all locations to
>the beings standing in proximity to her. An older RQ player told me
>that this is a chaotic taint.
'Twas not the original intent of the module. If your GM
insists that it is so, how can I argue, though?
>there is mention of the Cleansed One subcult of Zola Fel what wold
>be required of him to purge himself of chaos
1) Zola Fel didn't really purge the Cleansed One -- that broo
simply used the Zola Fel cult as a part of his route towards
Cleansing.
2) This was a major heroquest.
3) Illumination may have had something to do with it. I know
of three theories about this. Theory A was that the broo did his
quest before Gbaji's birth, and had to quest back to Rashoran to get
illuminated. Theory B was that the broo became illuminated, then went
on a quest to LOSE his illumination, without regaining his chaos
nature, and was successful. Theory C is that the broo in question was
Ralzakark (n.b. almost all famous broos are claimed to be Ralzakark
at one time or another).
---------------------
From: mmor...@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 06 Sep 1994, part 4
Message-ID: <1994Sep7.1...@vnet.ibm.com>
Date: 7 Sep 94 20:50:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6101
*** Reply to note of Tue, 6 Sep 94 12:05:58 +0200
*** by RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
David Megacorp (no switch for you yet, alas!) writes:
D>The following items are now out of print:
D>All issues of Tales prior to issue #11
D>The Collected Griselda
D>Rough Guide to Boldhome
D>Report on Boldhome
D>RQ-Con Programme Book
D>The Glorious ReAscent of Yelm
What plans, if any, do the RMMC have for reprinting any of these
items? As you work on Wyrm's Footprints, could you also not work
on The Tome of the Reaching Moon (for the first 10 issues, say)?
Besides, I was just considering finding copies of the Boldhome
guide & report, and the GRAoY -- now impossible!? :-(
Or are these separately available elsewhere ... say, on this side of
the pond?
Michael
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael C. Morrison IMS Information Development Tieline 8-543-4706
Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California (SWS) Phone (408)463-4706
Bitnet ID: MCM at VNET Fax (408)463-4101
Internet ID: MMOR...@VNET.IBM.COM or USIB...@IBMMAIL.COM
IBM Mail Exchange ID: USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL or USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL
X.400 Address: G=mcmgm; S=morrison; P=ibmmail; A=ibmx400; C=us
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Cambell
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 7 Sep 94 21:42:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6102
In-Reply-To: <940906100...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Alex Feregson
. Nick Eden
.> Fortuneately I'm not a Jung or Cambell acolyte. but I know
.> a man who is....
.Who, Greg? Partly, but let's not forget FGS is also a fully paid-up
.shamanist, and so actually Believes This Stuff (or some thereof).
Then again Cambell and Jung believed in what they wrote about, and I
don't think Greg's theology is the sort that says because an
anthropologist worked it out it is therefore false.
---------------------
From: Arg...@aol.com
Subject: This subject cannot be indexed
Message-ID: <940907201...@aol.com>
Date: 8 Sep 94 00:10:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6104
D. Cowling asks:
>When a PC finds a magical item(say a Demoralize matrix) how does
>he know what it is, and how does he discover how to make it
>funtion? With something like a light matrix (where the focus
>would be the object itself) I can see where just giving it MP
>would make it work, but what about when there has to be a
>target??
I haven't had any reason to think about this recently, but I
would give a character a Ceremony roll to figure out a spirit
magic spell matrix (if the character is a spirit magic user) or a
sorcery matrix (if the character uses sorcery). Any divine magic
matrix of a different cult, and any matrix of a magic system
which the character doesn't use, is a mystery. There are also
complex enchantments (usually involving spirits) which can't be
figured out with a Ceremony roll. Those things are what the
Analyze Magic spell is for.
>Also, in Apple Lane's Rainbow Mounds there live(d) a creature
>known as The
Great Mother Lizard. In the RQ3 module, killing here imparted
>2AP in all
locations to the beings standing in proximity to here when she
>died. After
dishing out this _reward_, an older RQ player told me that this
>is a chaotic
taint, and would detect as so by the appropriate spells. Your
>comments?
I strongly disagree. GML is not chaotic, so how could she
bestow a chaotic taint? I would run the 2 AP skin as something
of a mixed blessing, though, as the blood would certainly stain
the skin (not to mention that piercing your ears would be rather
difficult...). If you want to be really nasty, run it like
Brittleskin: you have to cast Repair on the location before you
can Heal it.
>One last thing... with the adventure series found in The River
of
>Cradles, there is mention of the Cleansed One subcult of Zola
>Fel, and the trials this broo went through to remove his taint.
>I have a PC wanting to run an orge through this, but I don't
>even think Zola Fel would rescue him from drowning in the
>openning of this adventure. If so, what wold be required of him
>to purge himself of chaos (if he even wants to >:) )
It's like the joke about how many psychiatrists it takes to
change a light bulb: one, but the light bulb has to WANT to
change. Don't let your ogre (or orge) PC decide he wants to be
purged without roleplaying through his internal transformation.
Once that occurs, a difficult heroquest (let me know when you
write it) is needed to purge the taint. I don't think any new
mechanics are necessary; the HQ could easily be a pilgrimage
across the face of the (apparently) mundane world, but charge
with symbolic overtones. On such a quest, every detail would be
significant.
ZF doesn't have any chaos-detecting ability, so unless the
ogre has an obvious chaos feature, Zola Fel would treat him like
any other non-cultist.
--Martin Crim (original possessor of the Martin rune (tm)(c))
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Vinga's relationships
Message-ID: <940908003...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 7 Sep 94 14:33:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6105
Vinga is the mother of Vingkot, by Barntar. Orlanth thinks he's the father
and that some un-named nymph is the mother.
I'll send the story forthwith.
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Another teaser from my warped, wild, and wierd Glorantha
Message-ID: <940908004...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 7 Sep 94 14:48:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6106
Okay, here's another teaser of my Glorantha, again with explanation to come
"later".
Duck deities:
Humquackt: The foremost Druulz god. He is the half of the Whole that
together makes up all that is Right. In I fought, We Won, Humquackt
sacrificed his wings so that the Emperor could regain the sky. So did
all his children.
Ernaada: The wife of Humquackt. She is the other half of the Whole. While
the powers of death, law, and knowledge belong to Humquackt, the powers of
life, mercy, and good guesses belong to Ernaada.
Orlanth: The god of Humans. This is Humquackt's little brother. Like
his people, Orlanth is prone to foolishness, pompousness, and taking on
unwarranted airs. It was Orlanth who foolishly slew the Emperor out of a
fit of pique, and it was Orlanth whom Humquackt sent to fetch the Emperor
back. Sometimes Orlanth sleeps with Ernaada, but she turns into a human
for his pleasures.
Ducka Fowl: The judge of the dead and the spirit of mortality. Humquackt
is his brother and sent him to sit in the Halls of Death to gather the
spirits of Druulz so that they would not be lost among the other peoples.
Storm Bullfrog: The chaos-eater. This god can swallow any chaos whole and
then excretes it. He did this to the Devil. The Block is the Devil as a
turd. He is usually worshipped through the hero cult of Donahd.
There are others, I've left my list at home.
---------------------
From: gbo...@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu
Subject: Comments on the comments on my comments...
Message-ID: <00984215....@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Date: 8 Sep 94 01:15:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6107
I agree with your comments on non-human trade, Martin. Jeorg handled my
reasons for using the Mostali at Gemborg the way I did. The question of
non-human trade is very problematic for me as well. Most of the scarcity
conditions that generate trade, and the cultural conditions that generate
economic "tastes" are so different among non-humans that I'm uncertain about
applying the assumptions behind economics to their actions. I'm also very
unsure about what non-humans would want from humans. Although the trade is
very lucrative for those who are involved, I think that most non-humna trade
with humans is very small-scale.
I'm afraid I disagree about Truestone and Prax. While I certainly don't see
more than a few pounds of truestone leaving Prax annually, I still think there
is more than you believe (and the really great thing is that WE'RE BOTH RIGHT!)
My reasons are simply my need to explain why the outside world cares so much
about this region. One thing I'm not sure of is why people outside Prax would
want Praxian herd beasts. It seems to me that Sartar and points west are well
provided with their own draft animals, so outside of a minor trade for the
menageries of the wealthy (or their tables), it seems unlikely to me that many
Praxian beasts are traded to outsiders (because of a failure of demand, not of
supply).
Here is a general question about Truestone. Why is it so valuable? When there
were no spells to create Divine Magic Matricies, I can see why. Under the
present rules, though, there is a substitute for Truestone, so filled stones
shouldn't be any more valuable than the equivalent matrix. As to blank stones,
they are almost the perfect economic good, they are only as valuable as the
spells available to be put in them. Thus a small temple might only be willing
to pay 2000 lunars for a piece, while a large temple might pay well over the
100,000 figure.
I agree about Maniria. A better statement might be that portions of Maniria
are as wealthy as the wealthiest portions of Kralorela and Peloria.
I like Jeorg's ideas about Pentans selling horses.
I put Lokarnos in Kralorela because I wanted to give it a place to thrive, and
since it is probably being slowly squeezed out of Peloria by Etyries, Kralorela
struck me as the only other likely place.
My reasons for having trade cultists be able to detect debased coinage was so
that it became a non-problem...but whatever you like.
My thanks for all the kind words from Martin and Jeorg and from a few others.
Gerald
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: Mike.D...@vuw.ac.nz
Subject: Oh Deer, Islands, and the Silk Tree
Message-ID: <1994090723...@rata.vuw.ac.nz>
Date: 8 Sep 94 23:19:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6103
I've been having terrible trouble posting to the Daily, so I hope this
doesn't appear twice. I've sent a copy to Henk for him to forward too.
Deer oh deer oh deer oh deer oh deer oh deer oh deer oh deer...etc ad nauseum
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to take the credit for starting this whole messy thread off three
weeks ago. But I'm not apologetic, since most of the quibbling could have
been avoided if people had read the table I included in that first post:
Latin USA Europe Description
Dama dama (none) Fallow Deer Brown with white spots
Alces alces Moose Elk Big heads, broad antlers
Cervus sp Elk Wapiti Large red forest deer
Rangifer sp Caribou Reindeer Big domestic tundra deer
For those of you who have been bored silly, here's the debate in a nutshell:
Me: Martin, shouldn't the Pralori in your Hykim writeup be Wapiti
people instead of Moose people?
Martin Crim: Fair enough. Change it if you want.
DavID Dunham: I agree. Jonas and I call Moose hsunchen Aleci.
Sandy: I agree. Also, moose hsunchen shouldn't be as common as Pralori.
Add over 40k of anecdotes and misunderstandings and bickering over languages.
And that's the Great Pralori Debate.
Now could it stop for good please?
Island Gigantism and Dwarfism
-----------------------------
OK, island evolution is something I actually know a bit about. But of
course, that's never a sufficient reason to post anything to the Daily >:)
So I've tried to give some Gloranthan examples people can use.
Why are some animals big in the first place. Lots of reasons. Being big is
good against predators, you don't heat up or cool down so fast, you can
load up whenever you find some food or water, and you can get at food
supplies smaller animals can't. Of course, although being big is more
energy efficient, you do need more gross food and water.
On small islands, where there may not be large predators, and where food
and water supplies are more limited, big animals will often shrink. Dwarf
elephants and hippos in the Mediterranean, dwarf mammoths off the
California coast, dwarf deer on the Channel islands. About sheep-sized
seems to be the goal. As the Blue Wizard pointed out, these are all
warm-blooded, but only because most big things are warm-blooded today.
We've just uncovered fossils in New Zealand of a dwarf carnosaur, something
like a human-sized Allosaurus, which was hanging on when NZ was splitting
away from the rest of Gondwana (and when Allosaurus was extinct in the rest
of the world).
OK, so why do some things become giant? Well, why are they small? Birds are
small because they need to fly. Reptiles are small because mammals and
birds eat them and out-compete them. Being small means you can hide better
from predators. But when predators and competitors are removed, small
things expand to fill the spaces. So on the Galapagos there are giant
tortoises acting like sheep, (although the land and swimmming iguanas are
not actually giant), and on Komodo giant monitor lizards acting like
tigers.
In New Zealand the only land mammals are bats, and so most birds stopped
flying and got big. Some very big, deer-sized, but most about turkey-sized.
There was also a giant eagle, giant hawk, giant pelican, giant swan, giant
duck and so on. Much the same on other islands. Goose-sized turtle-beaked
ducks on Hawaii, giant flightless owls in the Caribbean, giant
moa-analogues in Madagascar (as well as giant tortoises) and so on.
Incidentally, ALL the island forms listed above, even the biggest moa,
survived into human times (except the dinosaur) and almost all were quickly
wiped out by first settlers displaying an indigenous conservation ethic
(excuse the sarcasm).
So what's this mean for Glorantha? Well, deer on Ygg's Islands may be
smaller than the mainland race, if they've been isolated for long enough.
Martin's Hykim cult has Moa hsunchen on the East Isles, but lots more of
those isles should have flightless birds (at least the uninhabited ones).
We're now finding that EVERY island in the Pacific where we care to look
had its own bird fauna, many on the way to flightlessness (rails and
pigeons are particularly good - the dodo was a big flightless pigeon). In
every case, polynesian settlers wiped them out and then starved or left, or
are in the process of doing so.
But we should also give nature in Glorantha a chance to do stuff it never
got around to doing on Earth. New Zealand bats are nearly flightless,
preferring to run around on the forest floor. So why not (a la Dougal
Dixon's book After Man) make an island of giant flightless bats? Bat
predators (stats for which appeared in an old White Dwarf), bat browsers,
aquatic bat penguin-analogues, and so on. One island should certainly have
giant penguins - NZ prehistoric penguins were 1.6 m (5'4") tall. Prehuman
Australia, with very few big mammalian predators, had giant boas, REALLY
giant giant monitors, and land crocodiles. Perhaps a bit of Jrustela? But I
would love to have an island of intelligent Lewis Carroll dodos. Hmmm...I
think they're going to my Keets from now on.
The Silk Tree
-------------
Reading Darwin's The Voyage of the Beagle again, I found this description
of a sacred tree on the Argentinean pampas. So I tweaked it a little, and
now it could be found anywhere in the Wastes. The passage is from a
compendium of some sort, perhaps in Pavis.
"Shortly after leaving the last spring we came in sight of a famous tree,
which the nomads revere as the spirit Waleechu. It is situated on a high
part of the plain, and hence is a landmark visible a great distance. As
soon as the nomads come in sight of it, they offer their adorations by loud
shouts. The tree is low, much branched, and thorny: just above the root it
is a pace in width. It stands with no neighbour, and I never saw another
like it. Although the rains were not long past, it bore no leaves, but in
their place numberless silken threads, from some of which offerings such as
herbs, carved bone trinkets, scaps of patterned cloth &c. had been
suspended. Most nomads, having nothing better, only pull a thread from
whatever silk they have, and fasten it to the tree. Richer nomads pour
drink and spices into a certain hole, or may smoke herbs in its shade. All
such, I was informed, gratifies the spirit Waleechu. To complete the scene,
the tree was surrounded by the bleached bones of herd beasts which had been
slaughtered as sacrifices. All nomads of every age and sex make their
offerings; thay believe that their beasts shall not tire, and they shall
find water easily. When I asked my guide whether some might not steal the
offerings, he laughed, but would not say more."
Cheers,
Mike Dickison
adze...@matai.vuw.ac.nz
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6108: =
- Re: change of subject from graoy, moose, deer to...
6109: =
- Kalikos Icebreaker
6110: =
- The Blue Wizard says sorry.
6111: =
- The legend of Arkat and Kaxtor
6112: =
- Identifying magic items
6113: =
- This, that and Viv.
6114: =
- (Chaos?) armour, Chaos clensing, General C. H. Aos
6115: =
- Duck cults
6116: =
- Chaos taints
6117: =
- ...about gods unseen...
6120: =
- Goodness GRoYtious, I god a duck...
6121: =
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 08 Sep 1994
6122: =
- The Cult of Vinga
6123: =
- Jrustela
6124: =
- Cult requests
6125: =
- Hikym? Where
6126: =
- Praxians, Solar musings
6127: =
- Rumors of my death, etc, etc.
6128: =
- Reaching Moon MegaCorp North America Limited News
6129: =
- This dwarfism thing
6130: =
- Giant electric penguins
6131: =
- Request for Trade Notes
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: change of subject from graoy, moose, deer to...
Message-ID: <940908080...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 8 Sep 94 09:03:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6108
MOB:
> [...] The thing that interested me the most [...] has been the
>speculation that Morokanth park for the night on top of Prarie Dog
>colonies so raiding nomads risk breaking their mounts legs. Now that's
>something I can do things with!
> [...] I flicked through the endless discussions about various types of
>deers and mooses of late with increasingly torpid disinterest. Let's
>move onto something else (are there lemming hsunchen in Glorantha?)
Prairie Dog hsunchen?
--
Henk | Henk.La...@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
| x15338 -- ask me about /etc/rc2.d/S80lpconfig
---------------------
From: Lynne....@bhein.rel.co.uk (Clayton, Lynne)
Subject: Kalikos Icebreaker
Message-ID: <9408087790....@reedel1.bhein.rel.co.uk>
Date: 8 Sep 94 08:15:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6109
********************* Paul Honigmann here...not Lynne ***********************
I am currently running a campaign where the PCs are interacting with members of
the -Kalikos Icebreaker- cult. (Oh yes you are...and stop reading this!).
Can anyone tell me where info. on this cult can be found? or has anyone got any
ideas about it, particularly why and how this cult is so good at dealing with
ice demons .... that is ,why they are better than other cults which have fire
magic for example.
Also, Ian Gorlick please, please, pretty please, send me your notes on Thanatar
and Vivamort care of Lynne's email address.Thanks
Paul
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: The Blue Wizard says sorry.
Message-ID: <01HGVV4PH...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 9 Sep 94 09:54:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6110
Sorry about the snafu I made with the digest on the 8th.
I was a bit tired and had a mindfade.
--Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: Mike.D...@vuw.ac.nz
Subject: The legend of Arkat and Kaxtor
Message-ID: <1994090809...@rata.vuw.ac.nz>
Date: 9 Sep 94 09:56:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6111
This is my THIRD attempt to get this to the Daily (New Zealand-Holland
communications seem to be worse than ever, though that hasn't hindered my
compatriot the Blue Wizard). Things seem to be working better now, so I'll
try again. This is part of my version of Kaxtorplose, based solely on the
few paragraphs of published material. If folks like it, I'll forward some
more.
The Legend of Kaxtor and Arkat
Long before the sinking of Slontos, Kaxtorplose was a small village with no
name at the bottom of a seacliff. One earth season, the bedraggled remains
of a great army arrived at the village square. At their head was a sorely
wounded nobleman, on a lame mule. He told the villagers, "I am the mighty
wizard Kaxtor Unbending. This is the Clean Thinking Army. Give me refuge!
Give me sustenance! Give me horses, mead and pillows!"
Replied the village wise man, "Patience, noble sir. Your wants shall be
satisfied in time." But Kaxtor Unbending pulled the wise man's head from
his body, and the villagers ran to do his bidding.
And so the hero Kaxtor took refuge at the village with no name during the
terrible days of the Brightness Wars. A sanctuary for the wounded man was
created in a cave on the cliff face, attainable only by a secret path.
Slowly Kaxtor's warriors were defeated and his power declined, until all
that remained of the Clean Thinking Army were the loyal commoners who
sheltered him. Closer and closer to the nameless village came the gibbering
horde of the Bright Ones. The fishers girded themselves for battle.
But then one dark season the conqueror Arkat Swordson and his followers
came to the village square. Arkat met Kaxtor as an equal, and declared
himself an ally and friend. Kaxtor said to Arkat, "I am the vengeful
warrior Kaxtor Unbending. We are besieged by the Iron Man. Give me
soldiers! Give me armour! Give me swords, supplies and coursers!"
Replied mighty Arkat, "Patience, noble sir. Your wants shall be satisfied
in time." He promised the Unbending a thousand men-at-arms on his return,
and rode off before the furious Kaxtor could reply.
News came to the villagers of how Arkat was laying waste to the
bright-helmed troops of the Iron Man. Travellers said that soon the
Swordson would move on east to continue his crusade, and leave Slontos free
and at peace. Kaxtor knew that the liberated land would need a strong and
righteous ruler, unafraid to purge the Bright and keep the law. The
villagers wondered how they would live without Kaxtor there to watch over
them.
And then one storm season the victorious Arkat the Liberator and his
counsellors returned to the village square. With him were a thousand men,
but they were the crippled veterans of Arkat's crusade, with wives and
scars and no stomach for war. So Kaxtor said to Arkat, "I am the forespoken
ruler Kaxtor Unbending! I can best govern this land and these people. Give
me robes! Give me vassals! Give me stewardship of Slontos!"
Replied wise Arkat, "Patience, noble sir. Your wants shall be satisfied in
time." And he suggested they retreat to the Sanctuary to discuss the matter
further, to which Kaxtor angrily assented.
The two great men debated far into the night, and were still speaking at
Yelm's rising. They talked on through the day, and argued over their
evening victuals. And so they conferred for a further six days, shunning
their servants and aides. On the seventh day Arkat came forth, told the
wise woman that Kaxtor was at rest, and rode from the village. The
Unbending remained cloistered for a fortnight, refusing all water and food,
and the villagers prayed for his health and good demeanour.
And then on the first day of Sea Season the humble Kaxtor Farseeing
shuffled into the village square. Supporting him were his Cleanthinkers
Five, the first Bringer, and the Founder Elucidator, those who had ever
been loyal to the hero. And Kaxtor said to all, "I am the manatee of serene
stepping. I bestow fruit and nine yellow dragonteeth. Blow, water. Praise
good lintels. Crumble pride in happy batter."
Said the Elucidator, "Patience is rewarded. His wants have been satisfied
in time." A thousand men bowed to the service of Kaxtor. The holybirds
sang. So was our city founded.
Mike Dickison \ If an infinite number of rednecks, in an infinite number
Science writer \ of pickup trucks, fire an infinite number of shotgun
Wellington, N.Z. rounds at an infinite number of highway signs,
adze...@matai.vuw.ac.nz \ they will eventually produce all the world's
(Thanx to J. Banker, Ariz.!) \ great literary works in Braille.
---------------------
From: ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Identifying magic items
Message-ID: <940908113...@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 8 Sep 94 15:39:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6112
Nils Weinander writing
Lots of suggestions how to identify magic stuff, some useful,
some rather interesting...
Loren writes:
>2. Take it to a Lhankor Mhy temple and get them to identify
>it. Obviously, this isn't going to be affordable for most homeless
>adventurers.
In most campaigns I have participated in, the PCs have had a strange
ability to stumble over lots of interesting stuff, so good trade
relations with the local LM temple usually evolve. We find something
which needs identification, so we take it to the LM temple and get
it identified in exchange for information about the things we
have done + the items we deem useless to us.
_____
I'll really try to stop writing about moose from now on. But if I
do find an angle to get some of them into the Dara Happan mythos,
then I could kill two birds with one stone and combine two really
annoying threads (according to an increasing number of readers)
into one completely meaning-less megathread! :-)
_____
/Nils W
---------------------
From: s...@liverpool.ac.uk (Mr S.W. Jones)
Subject: This, that and Viv.
Message-ID: <1994090812...@uxh.liv.ac.uk>
Date: 8 Sep 94 14:10:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6113
I'd like to add my voice to chorus of taking the GRAoY discussion
off line, oh, and the in depth articles on gigantism and dwarfism, whilst
I'm sure they are very well thought out/ researched etc. Well they're
dull. Sorry, but they bring a yawn.
I did have some questions for the Daily though, having recieved
Ian Gorlick's Viv and Than write-up's, a few things occurred to me.
1) How do the initiates see in the Vivamort temple's, I figured that
a Darkness deity wouldn't be keen on torches- so without these, there's gonna
be a lot of initiates with bruised knees, to say the least. My theory is that
owing to the large amount of time spent as initiates, before achieving
immortality, they spend their time growing accustomed to the dark, in prayer
and comtemplation of the Void, perhaps pacing the confines of the temple
complex, remembering that vampires cannot be effectively physically constrained.
Well that's my thought's, I know there's the sorcery spell Glow, but that
doesn't seem appropriate, and besides I dislike RQ sorcery.
I might also add, that I like the idea of study in the temple (of cult
history etc) to be conducted by light, symbolic of Viv's wounding by light,
using alsorts of nasty waxes for candles, skull holders etc. etc., ending the
study with the ritual annihilation of the flames, what do you think?
2) Having dealt with Viv, what about Cacodemon, he's got the Darkness
Rune too, what about Ogre's, they can't see in the dark can they?
3) How about broo's, they're the ubiquitous chaos nasties, can they
not see, or do they have improved night vision. I ask this because it's seems
so much more atmospheric to fight broo at night, when they are only half seen,
and if they can't see, (remembering the advantages and confusion in a night
attack) having broo stumbling and falling over, well, it's just not
dignified (it's not frightening either- I've had a group point out that the
broo couldn't see either, the ruling meant the broo spent more time on the
ground that fighting).
Idea's and comments welcome.
Stupendous Man.
(Having no other Simon to GL switch with, a blanket was used to Amazing
effect- my only worry now is the Evil Mom-Lady)
---------------------
From: 10030...@compuserve.com (Staffan Tjernstrom)
Subject: (Chaos?) armour, Chaos clensing, General C. H. Aos
Message-ID: <940908135430_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 8 Sep 94 13:54:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6114
There have been some interesting points about the GML blood raised so far, so
here are my additions:
No, the blood/armour is not a chaotic feature. However, you try telling this to
the poor(?!? - Gringle) non-masters of Sense Chaos in Apple Lane et al. Chances
are the Constable will have you locked up in no time at all awaiting a tribe
gathering. When I ran it the players were almost lynched by themselves, as they
worried over the problem.
Clensing of Chaos:
For those of you who were there, I refer to GS's comments at Convulsion '92.
Ie, it is IMPOSSIBLE to remove a taint of chaos (apart from the use of IMMEDIATE
DI if the target of 'chaosification').
Having said this, prior to this one of my characters (a pesky elf C&A initiate)
was acting as medical support to a group of adventurers engaged on some scorpion
man bashing and to cut a long story short she ended up de-chaos tainting a
scorpion man who is now her boy(?)-friend and stands guard outside the Orlanth
Temple in Pavis (the Storm-Bull High Priest keeps getting a headache every time
he passes through trying to sense chaos).
PS, just before anybody notices, our campaign is set in a non-lunar Pavis, hence
the presence of an open Orlanth Temple.
PPS, the scorpion man has a club tail instead of a stinger, after all, you can't
be too careful with these non-humans.
Crystals/matricies:
For crystals, I very much agree with SP's comments. However, since I play the
rule that it takes one _week_ to attune to a powered crystal (in order to find
out what it does [including if it is flawed]) my LM/IO temples do a roaring
trade in Analyse.
For matricies, I play that (providing you have sufficient INT slots available)
you can get a 'feel' (akin to taste analysis for potions etc) for what the
matrix performs. What I interpret as feel varies very much according to my
disposition at the time.
---------------------
From: wat...@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Chaos taints
Message-ID: <1994090814...@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 8 Sep 94 16:25:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6116
_____
Loren:
>There are a lot of leftover casual mentions of
>things as "chaotic taints" in RQ2 and RQ3 products that should be
>ignored. Greg Stafford told me once that Giants and Cave Trolls *do
>NOT* have chaotic taints no matter what the monster listings say,
Hmm, I could give Giants the benefit of the doubt, but Cave Trolls??
That regeration ability makes them Gravely Suspect in my opinion. It doesn't
seem natural; nor does it have an obvious magical cause (or cost).
As a rule-of-thumb, whenever you appear to get something-for-nothing there's
probably Chaos behind it IMHO.
>so IMHO you should ignore the chaos taint claim for the Mother of Lizards too.
Ok. If the armour gift is not Chaotic then I think there should be some cost
associated with it. Perhaps the ordeal of slaying the beast is enough to merit
the reward. But I'd be tempted to sack some MP off the beneficiaries (or maybe
a point of POW) to seal the enchantment and give it a more "conventional" (as
opposed to Chaotic) magical feel.
>Besides, seems to me she should have an Earth taint if she is
>tainted with any Rune.
Seems fair.
___
CW.
---------------------
From: yfc...@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: ...about gods unseen...
Message-ID: <9409081628.aa12360@uk.ac.ed.castle>
Date: 8 Sep 94 15:28:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6117
(Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) Writes :
>So if I believe that Yelmalio didn't really loses his fire powers at the hills
>of Gold, I can use Fireblade? To me this is simplistic. What also matters is
>what the enemy believes about the god and what actually happened to the God
>himself.
But in order to believe this, you need proof. You can get that proof by going
to the Hills of Gold, in the path of Yelmalio, and defeating ZZ. This heroquest
would assert your mythic right to the fire powers. After all, believing
something is quite different from just thinking it.
>I must come out into the open and state my belief that at 0 ST, the gods were
>frozen by the web.
But the 'godtime' exists outside of time, not merely 'before' it. It exists in
the Gloranthan 'here and now' just as much as in the gloranthan past. It exists
beyond a veil that can be pierced through heroquesting. To a great extent, such
heroquesting has created the godtime we all know about. Remember also that cult
rituals are also heroquests, so these can alter the godtime in the same way.
Thus the worshiper's beliefs, manifested in their rituals of worship, can make
their mark on the godtime.
>In extremely rare cases the myth can be extended
>into time by concious heroquesting of a colossal magnitude ..
I don't think that the difference in magnitude need be that great. In a sense
some heroquest is all heroquest. Treu, to make a great change which alters a
myth important to millions of people is a great heroquest, but even minor
heroquests are temporaly ambivalent. After all, every quester on a given path
is arguably performing the same deeds at the same time and place.
>Either the heroquester finds an event of what the god did that was previously
>unknown and adds the spell to the cults lexicon or he borrows a tool from a
>similar diety or invents a power in which case he becomes the focus of a
>subcult.
Or rather, he performs some heroic deed in the name of the god and thus adds
that acomplishment to the god's achievements. This is the difference between
personal and cultural quests. In the personal quest, the questor performs and
benefits from the deed. In cultural questing, the hero acts for/as the god,
indeed the whole culture, and adds to the cult that way - but with lesser
personal benefits. Founding a subcult is a hafway step between the two, where
others follow a hero's personal quest path and expand it's influence on the
culture as a whole.
>And if Elmal was not Yelmalio, would some bad side effects have happened? The
>God Learners switched two earth goddesses around and no fruit grew in one place>and no marriage survived in the other.
I think these are quite different. The god learners did not even tell the poor
worshipers that they had made the switch. It was pure godplane engineering.
The rituals the poor saps were using were mere pantomime, they nolonger
corresponded to the godplane realities. I think the worsipers probably could
have quested such a change themselves given time and judicious questing.
I am thinking about historical fusions of deities on earth. Such as the Roman
soldier's habit of identifying local deities with Roman equivalents, for
example the cult of Mithras/Mars.
>I do not accept this. The Gods were, the gods are. They have made themselves
>a permanent part of glorantha.
Will the real Yelmalio please stand up! I have difficulty reconciling this with
your next statement.
>This was the basis behind my suggestion that the Solar
>Orb was too powerful to be worshipped directly and all the sun cults we have
>are only crude approximations.
Spot on! Antirius, Yelmalio, Elmal, whatever, spring from the same source. I
relay don't want to be drawn into the Yelmalio/Antirius debate. I just
question some of your statements about heroquesting and god learnerism.
BTW. What the hell is the Hill of Gold anyway. Is it a place, or a metaphor?
>I'm sorry if this has been somewhat pedantic but I feel obliged to explain
>myself when people invoke my name. I am trying to wean myself of this habit.
Go right ahead, Pete. I think your ideas are interesting and reflect a differentview of heroquesting from mine. You seem to believe in an underlying mythological
truth, where I believe in a continuous mythological process. That's ok.
Simon Hibbs
yfc...@castle.ed.ac.uk
---------------------
From: Bob.L...@tiuk.ti.com
Subject: Goodness GRoYtious, I god a duck...
Message-ID: <940908173...@ibrox.tiuk.ti.com>
Date: 8 Sep 94 17:30:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6120
Hi from Bob Luckin !
I'd like to add my voice the the chorus of agreement with David Hall's
comments on the Endless ReInterpretation of GRoY. I'm starting to find
these protracted arguments a bit tedious, I'm afraid. I'm also beginning
to hate those mooses to pieces. :-)
Bryan Maloney (X-RQ-ID: 6106) wrote on Duck Deities...
Thanks ! I enjoyed the humour and it made a welcome relief from GRoYstuff.
Hopefully the others you left at home include Donaldar - a god well-known
for his singing voice, and Squawk Mother - daughter of Vrimquack who
taught Yelmalio how to Speak to Ducks (that one's for you, Jon !).
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 08 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <940908182...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 8 Sep 94 06:25:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6121
Mike Dickenson makes a fine summary of the Pralori debate. While I'm
proud to end it, too, I have a final statement that may be useful to
players of these hsunchen.
>I was under the impression that moose _do_ use their antlers to
>fight each other in mating season.
Moose do a little fighting, but the female has the final say,
and it's the display of strength in the combat, not so much who won,
that determines the "winner". When wapiti fight, it is an actual
fight, and the winner conquers the female regardless of her wishes.
Hence, the Pralori are doubtless more male-dominated/female
subjugated than the Aleci. The Aleci, while larger and stronger, are
generally more mild-mannered (doesn't mean they aren't bad news in a
rage), and probably get along better with Orlanthi or other
non-Hsunchen folks.
Jerome
> Is it possible for a spirit to possess a Dream Dragon?
Hmm. I think lots of interesting things should happen to the
spirit doing so. Maybe the shaman would start manifesting draconic
powers/disabilities. Maybe the dragon would have a nightmare.
>make your players roll for INT and POW. They will begin life has
>spirits.Do not tell them!
What a great idea! You also get the added side benefit that
their "host" bodies will undoubtedly have built up a backlog of
enemies, friends, plots, etc., none of which the spirit will have any
inkling of.
In Billy Wilder's fine movie FIVE GRAVES TO CAIRO, a British
soldier in North Africa is isolated by Rommel's lightning advance. He
sneaks into the town which is about to be overrun, and to avoid being
made prisoner, he takes on the persona of a waiter who was killed in
a recent air raid (with the connivance of the hotel's staff, who are
anti-German). When Rommel shows up, he takes over the hotel for his
headquarters, and the first night orders the "waiter" to come down to
him. The "waiter", actually the soldier, of course, is pretty damn
nervous, fearing that Rommel has seen through his disguise. But when
he shows up, Rommel and his staff look at him and say, "All right,
what have you learned?" Turns out the waiter that Our Hero
impersonated was an important spy for the Nazis! I won't go into the
rest of the movie, but what a situation! Easily adaptable for a
Gloranthan situation.
Mike Dickenson: dwarfism & gigantism & isolation
>We've just uncovered fossils in New Zealand of a dwarf carnosaur
There is also a dwarf ankylosaur which some folks think may
have been island-based. Nanotyrannus is a miniature tyrannosaur
(which is to say, plenty big enough to tear your average lion to
ribbons), but there's no telling if it was based on an island.
I would expect to find highly peculiar island-isolated
creatures in Jrustela (where some might have been wiped out by human
imports), Teleos, and the East Isles.
JRUSTELA: this is the home of the Timinits, which are plenty weird.
No doubt there's other strange derivative creatures here. The
presence of the Timinits probably means there's few vertebrates. In
my campaign, when we visited Jrustela, there were Sidehill Gougers on
the mountains. Since Jrustela today is largely mountains, it's
clearly to me that specially-modified mountain beasts must be common.
Sidehill Gougers are obvious. Another real possibility is the Polar
Dragon (from Flash Gordon), which is furred and attacked by skimming
down the mountainside using its beaver-like tail as a sled.
TELEOS: fair game for someone to figure out. The humans here are so
weird that the animals have got to be as peculiar at least as
monotremes.
EAST ISLES: I've been doing a lot of work on the East Isles with Nils
W. and Greg F. One conclusion worth sharing even at this early stage
is that the Keets, while many are ducks, represent a wide variety of
sentient flightless bird life. Mike's hoped-for dodos are clearly
present in the East Isles. The Keets also are native to no
particular island, but dwell amidst the humans. There are ducks,
plovers, avocets, etc. And of course my personal favorite, the
flamingo-men.
---------------------
From: rap...@research.canon.oz.au (Andrew Raphael)
Subject: Jrustela
Message-ID: <1994090820...@mama.research.canon.oz.au>
Date: 9 Sep 94 16:16:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6123
Mike.D...@vuw.ac.nz writes:
>But we should also give nature in Glorantha a chance to do stuff it never got
>around to doing on Earth. New Zealand bats are nearly flightless, preferring
>to run around on the forest floor. So why not (a la Dougal Dixon's book After
>Man) make an island of giant flightless bats? Bat predators (stats for which
>appeared in an old White Dwarf), bat browsers, aquatic bat penguin-analogues,
>and so on. Perhaps a bit of Jrustela?
I'll second the New Zealand - Jrustela connection. I suggested it myself a
while ago, because of the timinits in Jrustela & what I knew of NZ's insect
life. Wetas, Waitomo Cave, etc.
--
Andrew Raphael <rap...@research.canon.oz.au>
"She's probably not what she seems, though she tries"
---------------------
From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Cult requests
Message-ID: <_19453_Thu_Sep__8_16:19:05_1...@bnr.ca>
Date: 8 Sep 94 12:18:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6124
I will be away for the next 3 weeks.
Will anyone who has requested Vivamort/Thanatar cult writeups and has not
received them, please send me another request in October? I will respond then.
Sorry for any inconvenience.
---------------------
From: phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Hikym? Where
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 8 Sep 94 22:20:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6125
In-Reply-To: <940908071...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
So that's what all this debates been about! An H&M write up. Pray tell
where can I get a copy?
---------------------
From: carl...@wdni.com (Carlson, Pam)
Subject: Praxians, Solar musings
Message-ID: <2E6F...@emssmtp.msm.weyer.com>
Date: 8 Sep 94 22:04:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6126
I've been catching up, so I respond to some old stuff.
PRAXIANS & PENTANS
Well, EXCUSE ME for using the words "Trickster" and "respect" in the same
sentence. Maybe I should have used "regard". I got the point, though:
"Trickster, bad... hyenas, bad." But isn't Trickster *occasionally*
appreciated? Hyena ate Genert to keep him safe from chaos, Eurmal helps
Orlanth occasionally, and in Native American stories, Coyote is known for
being rather clever at times.
(BTW, I favor Hyena as the Praxian trickster, because Coyote is too similar
to the Real World).
I would think Praxians & Pentans (& Grazers?) would have a difficult time
selling their animals to anyone who doesn't use Peaceful Cut.
Sandy - I liked the Morokanth ecology - it made great good sense. Now to
steer my bison riders toward the marshes!
Thanks to all for the Hippogrif info. So, there are horses of non-solar
origin? My, this IS getting confusing...
BASMOL
Can Basmol be considered to be a part of the solar scene? Harald Smith has
him originally
wielding lightening bolts at Khelmal's side, frex. I've also been wondering
about the relationship
between lions and gryphons (Ha, Alex! Another spelling!) Are they related?
(My bison riders are going to meet some Basmoli, and I'm wondering whether
to give the lion hsuncheon fire & light spells.)
There are other similarities: lions are yellow, have halo-like manes, and
live in very patriarchal societies.
Coincedence?
Cats seem to be Orlanthi - is there a scandal in there somewhere?
Y(K)ELMAL(IO)
Thanks, Harald for your view - I liked it a lot. In short - "They have a
common origin, but they can
all be different due to heroquests."
I plan to use the following in my campaign:
Antirius: fragment of Yelm, advisor to rulers. (Analogous to O. Rex) Died
after HoG but retained firepowers, knows some obscure (as yet undetermined)
ruler spells. Reborn as a part of Yelm. Worshipped rather secretly by those
Dara Happan nobles who long to oust the Lunars (idea swiped from Nick).
Yelmalio: son of Yelm & Dendara, husband/ protector of Ernalda. Survived
HoG, lost fire. Specializes in light spells noted in Sun County.
Worshipped in Sartar & Prax.
Elmal: possibly a son of Yelm, (could be Yelmalio) possibly an independant
former firegod, like Kargzant. Helped Theyalans through the darkness,
became Orlanth's loyal thane and stead protector. Survived HoG due to help
from Orlanth (see David Gadbois' posting eons ago). Kept fire spells, but
lost associate help from rest of Solar pantheon due to defection to Storm
camp. Therefore, no Resurrections, Sunspear, or other special solar powers.
Still friendly to horses, though. Worshipped in Southern Pelorian
Orlanthi, areas of Sartar, Ralios, and possibly other places.
Khelmal: This one's all Harald's, so I won't presume anything for certain.
( Elmal who took over Orlanth's stead, supplanted him, and thus remained
friendly to the solars and unfriendly to Orlanth?) GREAT myths, though -
keep 'em coming!
DARA HAPPAN DEBATE
I vote to continue it - it's quite relevant to my Dorastor campaign. My
Riskland Orlanthi (one of whom is an Elmali) are becoming involved in Lunar
/ Dara Happan / Orlanthi politics. Heck, PC's can only thrash so many
broos. Incidentally, the players have made a scale model of the stead to
fit inside their 5' X 5' scale model of their fort. Maybe I'll buy some
plastic farm animals.
OFFLINE RAMBLINGS
After reading more pleas to argue Pelorian mythology elsewhere, maybe we
should.
But please include me in the "Raybrain Mailing List". Joerg - I liked the DH
vocabulary list.
carl...@wdni.com
Pam
<^==@
/\ /\
---------------------
From: bch...@leland.stanford.edu (Barron Chugg)
Subject: Rumors of my death, etc, etc.
Message-ID: <1994090823...@popserver.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 8 Sep 94 08:48:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6127
Jonas:
>It sounds a lot like Barron's "runepath" ideas to me, though I don't think
>he ever got that specific about _how_ the questing should be done. Hey,
>Chugg! You still out there, man?
Huh? What? No, I wasn't sleepin'...Just restin' my eyes!
Yep, I am still out here. I just didn't have much to contiibute to
questions of which god is _really_ which and whether or not elk are moose
are deer are lemmings. To be completely honest, I haven't been doing much
RuneThought lately, but I'll try to shake out the cobwebs and follow up as
best I can.
My basic ideas were posted about a month or two ago, and if anyone is
interested I could dig up copies and email them (just write me and ask).
Andyway, the premis was that runemagic comes from followers walking the
hero paths of the particular god they follow. The more they become like
unto the deity, the farther they could go. Runemagic from this view is the
exercise of a minor, ritualized heroic ability. From long practice and
ritual, you are able to take on some aspect of your god (CA healing power,
Orlanth's Storm nature, etc.).
The initial sacrifice of power was to "learn the path". If it was a path
your god was good at, once you learned, you can walk it again with much
less effort (i.e. the spell is reusable). If the path is not one of the
god's main aspects, then the cost may have to be payed _every_ time the
path is walked (i.e. the spell is not reusable). The concept of "walking"
the path is the one I never clearly figured out. My image is of a minor
heroquest, wrapped in ritual of the cult. But I'd have to do a good dose
of thinking to come up with some specifics (I'll do what I can as time
permits).
I'll review my own notes and see what I can do.
Barron
---------------------
From: gad...@mcc.com (David Gadbois)
Subject: Reaching Moon MegaCorp North America Limited News
Message-ID: <199409090254...@CLIO.MCC.COM>
Date: 8 Sep 94 16:54:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6128
Issue 12 is *still* at the printers'. I will bust some heads there and
try to get it out on Monday afternoon.
In X-RQ-ID 6101, Michael Morrison asks about Reaching Moon product
availability in the States. Mind you, as with any globe-spanning and
middle-manager laden relic of Cold War capitalism international
megacorporation, RMMC experiences periodic oversupplies and shortages in
its various operating units. Alas, we expect this sad state of affairs
to continue despite massive and periodic structural reorganizations,
proxy fights amongst the corporate officers, experiments with the
latest in scientific management techniques, and dabbling in the
derivatives markets.
In particular, the only products currently available in quantity for our
North America customers are copies of Tales issues 10, 11, and (well,
RSN) 12. These sell for US$4.00 each. (All prices include postage.)
Previous issues of Tales are sold out, though there are plans (not
unlike Chaosium's HeroQuest ones) to produce a "Best of Tales"
compendium. I also have a few copies left of O.T.P.K Dickinson's book,
"The Collected Griselda," at US$12.00 each.
I am also doing a couple of pre-order deals for special products.
Please get your orders in by October 1:
o Jar-Eel: Assassin T-Shirts. These are $20.00 each and will arrive in
mid-November.
o Hans' video tapes of RQ-Con 1 (two tapes) and Convulsion '94 (one
tape.) I am not sure what the pricing will be. Does anyone have
ballpark prices for PAL->NTSC conversion and tape duplication?
Note that you lumped in several non-RMMC products (which just happen to
be distributed in Old Soggy by RMMC.) "The Glorious ReAscent of Yelm"
is sold in the States by Wizards' Attic (+1 (510) 547-7681.) David
Cheng <drc...@sales.stern.nyu.edu> may have copies of the RQ-Con
Program Book and "The Rough Guide to Boldhome."
--David Gadbois
---------------------
From: gar...@ditard.dit.gov.au
Subject: This dwarfism thing
Message-ID: <9408097791....@ditard.dit.gov.au>
Date: 9 Sep 94 12:00:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6129
Mike Dickison mentioned a dwarfed Allosaur had been found in New
Zealand recently.
A Cretaceous dwarf Allosaur has also been found in southern Australia.
It was about two meters long in life which would make it roughly human
sized. However, it probably didn't live on an island as Australia
hadn't separated from Antartica at the time. It was found in deposits
laid down in the rift valley which formed as the two continents began
to break apart. Actually lots of dinosaurs were about this size, its
just the really spectacular and well known dinosaurs are mostly
giants. The interesting thing about this particular Allosaur is that
the place where it was found was below 70 degrees south when it was
alive.
Sorry about the non Gloranthan post, but I couldn't resist adding to
Mike's discussion of dwarfism and giantism.
Gary James
---------------------
From: Arg...@aol.com
Subject: Giant electric penguins
Message-ID: <940908203...@aol.com>
Date: 9 Sep 94 00:38:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6130
Re: Mike "Adzebill" Dickison's Giant Penguin
It needn't be a little penguin. It can be the biggest penguin you've
ever seen. An electric penguin, twenty feet high, with long green tentacles
that sting people, and you can stab it in the wings and the blood can go
spurting psssssshhhh in slow motion.
Re: What Have I got in my pocket?
Quite a variety of answers on the question of discerning magic items. I
liked the meditation suggestion, disliked the empirical model (what are we
playing, scientists?), and could live with the others. To expand on my
Ceremony roll model: an hour of meditation is about right.
Anything with a spirit in it is obviously a binding object if there is
no user restriction which excludes the person holding it. However, you can
only communicate with the spirit if a) you have a language in common and b)
the spirit wants to talk or you force it to talk. Until you do so, you can't
tell the power of the enchantment. Even then, a stupid or obstructionist
spirit might not inform you correctly.
Re: Why is truestone valuable?
Gerald asks a good question. My answer would be that it is only as
valuable as a divine magic matrix, if it's filled, and approximately 1000 L
per point you could put into it, if it's empty.
--Martin
---------------------
From: duncan.h...@afrc.ac.uk (HEDDERLE)
Subject: Request for Trade Notes
Message-ID: <0308010809091994_A07915_FRIR_118949F92E00*@MHS>
Date: 9 Sep 94 10:01:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6131
Nick Eden (Phea...@Cix.Compulink.co.uk) writes:
> you're asking for trouble asking the Digest to send you trade notes -
> either everyone will or no-one will send you anything
Well, I've just got one five volume set, and it's printing off right now
(so I can study it at length after work) - THANKS, BUT NO MORE PLEASE!
Duncan Hedderley
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: 10030...@compuserve.com (Staffan Tjernstrom)
Subject: Duck cults
Message-ID: <940908135442_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 8 Sep 94 13:54:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6115
[slightly edited by me for proper linelength - HL]
For your delectation and delight, here is a writeup of the cult of
Rubbah Duck as used in the UK Student National Championships two years
ago (35% ducks on a Vampire Hunt!). I make no excuses for the RQ
II'ness of the description.
THE CULT OF RUBBAH DUCK
I. MYTHOS AND HISTORY
A. BEFORE TIME
Rubbah Duck is a great duck that appeared during the Greater
Darkness. He was responsible for enbling the cursed duck race to come
to terms with their new form, pointing out that they still had their
beloved waterways to return to should things not work out as they had
at first expected.
Little is known about the actual words and deeds of Rubbah
Duck during the Pre-Dawn, apart from the fact that he has been known to
appear at fairly 'regular' intervals during this period to help ducks
out of a particular quandry they were facing at the time.
B. SINCE TIME BEGAN
Rubbah Duck has through his Pre-Dawn examples kept Duck
society happy and continues to soothe the sometimes ruffled feathers of
that community by a nice hot swim.
C. LIFE AFTER DEATH
The worshippers of Rubbah Duck can look forward to death
secure in the knowledge that there will be places to bathe at in Hell.
The cult cares not a sausage what happens to the corpses of their
dead.
D. RUNIC ASSOCIATIONS
Rubbah Duck is associated with the Beast and Water Rune.
II. NATURE OF THE CULT
A. REASON FOR CONTINUED EXISTANCE
Since ducks have since time began been gifted/cursed with
being close to water, this cult helps them cope with their problems by
referring to the eternity and timelessness of the major bodies of
water, as well as the joy of swimming in them.
B. SOCIAL/POLITICAL POSITION AND POWER
The cult offers a vision of reassurence as well as
careful tendering, and thus occupies a small space in each duck society
roughly equivalent to one of the Orlanth/Ernalda duo-sub-cults in
Sartar. There is at least a shrine to Rubbah Duck in every major duck
population centre (ie Ducktown). Politically the cult has little if no
influence.
C. PARTICULAR LIKES AND DISLIKES
Rubbah Duck cultists, by their very nature are great
lovers of waterways. Thus it is friendly with any other cult thus
associated. They try not to dislike anything too much, since they
realise that this is probably dangerous. However, if they did dislike
something it would probably be Chaos in some form or another for
despoiling the water around them.
III. ORGANISATION
A. INTER CULT ORGANISATION
Generally very informal. Basically, whatever the local
Priest says, goes. There is no overall structure of the cult. In the
case of two Priests meeting and the need arising for distinction
(unlikely) then the priest with the larger body of water under his/her
domain would be considered the most senior.
B. INTRA-TEMPLE ORGANISATION
This is typlically according to the wishes of the local
Priest (it is very rare to have more than one in any one locale).
Generally it is a classic pyramid with the head honcho, a few people
who give the orders and actually keep the place running (Initiates) and
lots of bodies (lay).
C. CENTRE OF POWER, HOLY PLACES
The cult centre of power is in Ducktown, where there
is actually a temple with a High Priest. Any body of running water
which it is possible to swim in is regarded as a holy
place.
D. HOLY DAYS AND HIGH HOLY DAYS.
There is a Holy Day each Waterday, and a high holy day
on Waterday, Movement Week, Sea Season.
IV. LAY MEMBERSHIP
A. REQUIREMENTS TO JOIN
Rubbah Duck welcomes all creatures that are capable
of swimming.
B. REQUIREMENTS TO BELONG
Lay members are expected to donate a point of temporary
power each High Holy Day.
C. MUNDANE BENEFITS
Being a lay member allows the member free use of the
waterways under the control of the cult.
D. SKILLS
Lay members can gain training in the skill of
swimming at half cost.
E. BATTLE MAGIC
Lay members have no special relationship with
battle magic.
V. INITIATE MEMBERSHIP
A. REQUIREMENTS FOR INITIATION
The prospective candidate must be a duck and have a
swimming score of at least 90%. He must also perform a service for the
local priest, which should be such that it can be performed within a
single season.
B. REQUIREMENTS
Once accepted into the cult of Rubbah Duck, the
intiiate must donate one point of temporary power each holy day, and
two points on the High holy day. The initiate must be present at at
least 50% of the services held in Ducktown each year.
Furthermore, the initiate must help teach the young
ducks how to properly behave in the water, a sometimes thankless task.
C. BENEFITS
The initiate gets 4 weeks free board and lodging a year
in conjunction with the High holy day. During this time the initiate
receives free training in any skill for which a teacher is available.
D. SKILLS
There are no special skill benefits/restrictions for
an initiate in the cult.
E. SPELLS
The initiate gains access to the following two cult
battle magic spells
WATER BREATH
Range-touch POW used-1 point
Type-unfocused on self, focused on others, passive, temporal
This spell enables the caster to breathe under water as if the
caster was standing in air at sea level on a clear day just after a
heavy cold front has passed.
WATER SIGHT
Range-touch POW used-1 point
Type-unfocused on self, focused on others, passive, temporal
This spell acts as the FARSEE spell, but under water. It allows
perfect ocular vision through pure water, but the effect is reduced in
contaminated water.
VI. RUNE LORD MEMBERSHIP
A. GENERAL STATEMENT
The Rune Lord of Rubbah Duck is a protector of waterways
and duck civilisation. As such he must aspire to be the epitome of all
that is duck-like. A Rune Lord of Rubbah Duck is actively encouraged
to become a Priest as well.
B. REQUIREMENTS FOR ACCEPTANCE
To become a Rune Lord of Rubbah Duck one must first
have been an intiate in good standing for at least 10 years.
Candidates must have a 90% ability in Swimming and a weapon, plus three
other ablities. They must also have the normal requirements of 15 POW
and pass their priest's examination.
C. RESTRICTIONS
Rune Lords of Rubbah Duck are obliged to go to the
aid of any creature in difficulty in cult waters. They must never
knowingly enter a desert.
D. BENEFITS
Rune Lords of Rubbah Duck can expect free board and
lodging at any site of worship, where such is available. Furthermore
Rune Lords of Rubbah Duck can initiate members into the cult at the
rate of one a month.
VII. RUNE PRIESTHOOD
A. GENERAL STATEMENT
A Rune Priest of Rubbah Duck is a spiritual leader of
all water-using creatures. He serves to smoothe the ripples of
discontent that blow up from time to time in any civilisation. These
are people who are all-out pacificts, but not quite as extreme as
Chalana Arroy worshippers.
B. REQUIREMENTS FOR ACCEPTANCE
To become a Rune Priest of Rubbah Duck a candidate must
have been an initiate in good standing for at least 10 years and have a
Lord or a Priest as a sponsor. They must have a POW of 18 and know
their native language at 90%. They must also pass their priesthood
exams which do not allow bribes.
C. RESTRICTIONS
Rune Priests of Rubbah Duck are not allowed to knowingly
start conflicts or foul any waterway. Since they spend most of their
time in contemplation, all their DEX based skills are limited to a
maximum of DEX x 5.
D. BENEFITS
The main benefit from being a Rune Priest of the cult is
the respect that it gives from other water-using beings. A Rubbah Duck
priest has few if any automatic enemies.
E. RUNE SPELL COMPATIBILITY
Since Rubbah Duck is a fairly powerless spirit these days,
the cult priests only have access to standard 1 point rune magic
spells.
F. CULT SPECIAL RUNE SPELLS
None.
VIII. SUBSERVIENT CULTS
NONE.
IX. ASSOCIATED CULTS
NONE
X. MISCELLANEOUS NOTES
NONE.
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: The Cult of Vinga
Message-ID: <940908194...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 8 Sep 94 09:43:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6122
Okay, since people have been asking for a cult of Vinga, here is what I am
using in my campaign. Note that while it is written as an independent "cult",
its political position is as an Orlanth subcult--basically, the relationship
is more complex than simple Godlearner constructs will allow.
The Cult of Vinga
Introduction
Vinga provides an outlet for warrior women in Orlanthi society. Unlike the
avenger cult of Babeester Gor, her followers are still within the bounds of
society.
Mythos and History
Vinga is the sister of Orlanth. Unlike her female relatives, she felt no love
for cooking, child-rearing, or other typical womanly things. Thus, she
declared that she was to be considered part of Orlanth's war circle. Orlanth,
full of himself and of his own great wind, laughed at her and she left, vowing
to make him eat his laughter.
Along the way, she encountered Eurmal, who tried to seduce her. Vinga turned
the tables on Eurmal and "caught him by the short hairs". She then made
Eurmal show her the secret that he had shown to her brother Orlanth. To make
sure that he would make good on his promise, Vinga held Eurmal's "bits 'n
pieces" as collateral.
Eurmal sneaked into Orlanth's circle and replaced Death with a copy. Then
Vinga took Death from Eurmal and tossed his genitals into a bramble for him
to scramble after. She then went to find the Emperor, who had many times
humiliated Orlanth. If she could humble Yelm, then Orlanth would have to
accept her into his circle of war. Unfortunately, she was on hand just in
time to see Orlanth slay Yelm with his copy of Death.
In frustration, she cast Death away, and Eurmal picked it up. Not one to
avoid an opportunity for mischief, he left a copy in its place. Later, Vinga
went looking for death and found Eurmal's copy, which she strapped to her
side.
During the Storm Age, Vinga had many adventures, but each time she took her
trophies to Orlanth, he patted her upon the head and told her that, while
she was very good, the war circle was not her place. Orlanth would later
repent his foolishness, after he repented of killing the Emperor.
However, Orlanth's eyes were not opened until after he left upon the
Lightbringers' Quest. Upon the Hill of Gold, when Elmal stood to defend
himself against Zorak Zoran and his minions he was almost defeated, even with
the flaming spear that Orlanth had given him, until Vinga leaped into the fray
at his side(1,2). The two fought like brothers against the darkness monster
and drove it off. In the fight, Vinga's magnificent brown hair, the color of
the most fertile earth, was devoured by Zorak Zoran, and she was made
completely bald. The entire top of her head bore the scars of the troll's
teeth. Elmal bid Vinga to sit with him as his most honored warrior, and this
is where she was when Orlanth returned from the Lightbringers' Quest.
When Orlanth asked his thane how this could be, Orlanth was told of Vinga's
courage and sacrifice. He looked upon his sister and was ashamed. Her beauty
had been devoured by darkness. What man would marry her? Then he saw her
eyes and was shamed even more, for no sadness marred her face. She blazed
with glory and joy at her status of warrior and hero. Then he knew that the
War Circle was Vinga's place, not the hearth. Orlanth called Vinga to his
side and placed her upon the war circle. As token of her defense of Elmal, he
gifted her with a fine head of red hair--the color of the fire she had
defended. Some say to this day that children born with red hair are "Vinga's
brood".
(1)Orlanthi in areas with Yelmali tell the story a little differently. In
their versions, Vinga does not fight alongside Yelmalio, but charges into
battle after Yelmalio has been defeated and drives Zorak Zoran off with her
fierceness.
(2)Yelmalions themselves tell a different story. They maintain that Vinga
stood by idly and watched Yelmalio suffer. Then, when Zorak Zoran left, she
sneaked to the weakened god and tried to use her "wicked wiles" to steal the
last remnants of his guttering fire powers. Yelmalio, in his bewildered
state, succumbed to what he thought were ministrations. But all that was
left was enough to color Vinga's hair red--the mark of her wanton-ness.
Vinga then ran off to find other prey.
Cult Ecology
This cult's major function is to give a place to women who prefer to walk
the warrior's path, but she's also the mythic sister of "girls who
wanna have fun". Requirements to join are close to Orlanth Adventurous
(see below), except that the applicant must be a woman and must dye her hair
red if it is not already so. Vingan Wind Lords are called "Red Women" by
many people. Among the Orlanthi, Vinga has a reputation as a lusty, strong-
willed goddess, who knows what she wants and goes out to get it. Most
stories involving her revolve around the attempts of various gods to seduce,
induce, or woo her to marriage, and her many ways of outwitting them. She
is seen as witty, a master of weapons, and quite the flirt. However, she is
also portrayed as a steadfast warrior and champion of the weak. Vinga's
cult stresses the use of wit as well as weaponry, and there are many stories
involving Vinga and Eurmal (usual progression: Eurmal tries something on
Vinga. Vinga sees through the trick. Eurmal's trick backfires.).
Vingans are not forbidden to marry, but it is unusual for one to do so. It
is common for women widowed by violence to become Vingans as well, since
Vinga does have some avenging function. However, Vinga is still within the
circle of society, so her cultists do not become the scary, single-minded
avengers of Babeester Gor. Vinga's worshippers are expected to be able to
toss out serious zingers when men get offensive, the sort of stuff that just
deflates self-styled "gifts to women". Example:
Drunken Yokel: "Hey, Red, what would you say to a little fuck?"
Vingan: (Sweet, sweet smile) "Good-bye, little fuck."
Crowd in bar dissolves in laughter.
EXTREMELY Drunken Yokel: "Hey, Darkness Chick, what would you say to a
little fuck?"
Babeester Gori: (Drawing ax) "DIE! DIE! DIE!"
Crowd scatters as hapless yokel is dismembered and killed.
Furthermore, it is possible to change from worship of Vinga to worship of
Ernalda. (Some say that Vinga and Ernalda often share their divine
"elevenses" when Vinga isn't off adventuring.)
Chaos is the ultimate enemy, since it brought sorrow to Vinga's sisters and
mother. Darkness and darkness cults are also disliked, since Vinga fought
alongside Elmal against Zorak Zoran. The Troll Berserk god is considered
to be a particular enemy of Vinga's cult. Eurmal's tricksters are tolerated
by Vingans, mostly because Vinga made good use of Eurmal many times over in
the Godtime. Barntar is a favored god, since he restored Vinga's fertility
after she had touched Death. Heler and Vinga have a very close relationship,
and some claim that the two are married.
Elmali are especially friendly to Vingans, and it is not unheard of for an
Elmali warrior to take a Vingan wife or for an Elmali to actually encourage
one or more of his daughters to become Vingans. Vinga considers Elmal to be
very close, as well, for he was the first to accept her as she wished to be.
Yelmalions, on the other hand, don't like Vingans much at all, and see them
as wanton, and generally of loose morals. Vinga considers Yelmalio to be a
whining little boy, who is just too jealous to admit that he was saved in
combat by a woman.
Yelorna and Vinga get along about as well as acid and base. Vinga sees
Yelorna as an "uptight little priss" and Yelorna sees Vinga as a "dyed-hair
tramp".
Initiate Membership
Prospective initiates must be women, at least 16 years of age, and must
succeed in skill rolls for Fast Talk, Jump, Speak Stormspeech, Weapon
Attack, and Weapon Parry. They must sacrifice a point of POW to join.
Initiates must give 10% of their income to an Orlanth priest or Red Lady.
Initiates may not become sorcerers or shamans. They are required to spend 5
weeks a year in defense of an Orlanthi community. Initiates have a place
within Orlanthi culture as warriors. Membership guarantees them a roof and
a blanket and a place in the clan. They also get 50 hours of training per
year in cult skills and 1 point of cult Spirit Magic every five years. They
are taught Stormspeech for free up to 25%. Initiates may sacrifice for
Divine spells on a one-use basis as would an initiate to Orlanth.
Spirit Magic: Befuddle, Bladesharp, Coordination, Detect Enemies,
Fireblade, Heal, Mindspeech, Mobility.
Red Lady Membership
The Red Lady is the laughing warrior, the hell-bent woman of war and
adventure. Her life is danger and strife for the sake of glory and the
safety of the hearth.
A candidate must have been an initiate in good standing for a year. She
must have a 90% Sword Attack plus 90% in four skills chosen from among the
following: Climb, Fast Talk, Hide, Human Lore, Jump, Ride, Scan, Sneak,
Stormspeech, Weapon Attack, or Weapon Parry. She must also pass a test of
sincerity (Divination cast upon her by a Priest--GM decision).
Red Ladies have duties similar to those of Wind Lords except that they do
not have the Lightbringers' oaths or obligations. However, they must defer
to Storm Voices as priests. They also defer to chieftains and other
representatives of Orlanth Rex. Upon meeting any Elmal cultist, they
ritually offer aid. If the offer is accepted, they are bound to defend that
cultist from whatever threat may be immanent. They may then demand
hospitality (which, according to some rituals, includes a roll in the hay).
If they meet a Yelmalio worshipper, they make the same offer. However, most
Yelmalions will reject this offer, since this would indebt them to a Red
Woman. Red Women are not required to taunt Yelornans and call them "cross-
legged, dry-valleyed prunes", but it is a fairly common practice.
On a roll of POWX3 or less, an allied spirit is granted to a new Red Lady.
This spirit will either be an awakened shadowcat or embodied in the Red
Lady's sword.
Red Ladies may obtain the following Divine spells reusably
Common Divine Magic: Heal Wound, Sanctify, Worship Vinga.
Special Divine Magic: Command Sylph, Flight, Shield, Sureshot, Wind Words.
They still may sacrifice for other Orlanth magic as one-use spells. Red
Ladies get 1d10 divine intervention.
Enthrall 2 points
Temporal, stackable, reusable
This spell must be cast upon an opponent in melee combat, repartee, or any
other form of interpersonal competition. The Vingan must overcome the POW of
the target with her own to have an immediate effect. Immediate effect is to
completely entrance the target with the Vingan's weapon skill, witty tongue,
etc. The target, if so effected, cannot take any offensive action against the
Vingan. Furthermore, the target should act appropriately in other ways. If
the initial effect fails, the Vingan may still attempt to overcome the
target's POW ever time she scores a special success in the appropriate combat
or interaction skill so long as the spell is in effect. Stacking the spell
extends its duration accordingly.
Red Ladies may also sacrifice for the following associate cult magics:
Elmal: Orlanth's loyal thane gives his sister-in-arms the spell Sunspear.
This is only in lands where Elmal is worshipped instead of Yelmalio.
Huraya: Orlanth's servant will lend his Scarf to Vinga when she needs it.
She gives Vinga's cult the spell Mist Cloud.
Chalana Arroy: She grants Restore Health (Constitution) to Red Ladies.
Ernalda: Ernalda grants Heal Body to her hard-living sister-in-law (in
gratitude for introducing her to Heler, some say).
Eurmal: Eurmal and Vinga had many adventures together. He grants Charisma
and Remove Penis to his sometimes companion.
Heler: There are many connections between this deity and Vinga. He grants
Rain to her as well as to Orlanth. Also, any Vingan can demand a soft, warm
bed from any Heler cultist (and possibly demand that the Heleran do the
warming personally).
Yelmalio: He grudgingly grants the spell Catseye to Vinga in areas where
Yelmalio is worshipped instead of Elmal. However, it is a two point spell
for Vingans rather than a one point spell.
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6132: =
- re: Starter Game
6134: =
- Convulsion '94 video
6135: =
- Re: OTE/Glorantha
6136: =
- spirit languages?
6137: =
- gamers/God Learners phooey!
6138: =
- What my father told me.
6139: =
- Two cults uploaded to ftp site
6140: =
- Newted as a Nick.
6141: =
- T(/F)LA(s).
6142: =
- Yet more Suns.
6143: =
- That a-cursed Bless Crops.
6144: =
- Heroes magazine
---------------------
From: duncan.h...@afrc.ac.uk (HEDDERLE)
Subject: re: Starter Game
Message-ID: <3347360809091994_A07973_FRIR_11894A101400*@MHS>
Date: 9 Sep 94 10:36:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6132
Someone (sorry, deleted the Daily, so haven't got a name) in Thursday's
Daily suggested starting PCs as spirits in order to overcome some of the
problems new players have with absorbing all of the background on Glorantha.
I admire the sentiment, but I think the actual idea is wrong.
You see, at least half of the stuff newbies have to learn about Glorantha
is VERY basic, like how common magic works, and the particular RQ attitude
to Gods (they're definitely there, but they hardly ever manifest directly
- doesn't fit with the standard fantasy/ancient templates). It's not "What
My Father Told Me" - it's more "Rain is Wet" (see, for instance, the recent
discussion on how people learn about matrices - another piece of Gloranthan
Common Sense we never knew about)
(Sorry if that came on a bit strong, but I recently tried to write a WMFTM
to describe my version of Pavis to a new player, and found that the actual
cultural stuff wasn't what puzzled him so much - we could use historical
parallels for _that_ - it was how the world worked)
In fact, by starting PCs as spirits, you could increase the level of
confusion (enjoyable maybe, but not an easy way to get new blood in)
_because_ the players have to get used to all these new concepts of the
spirit plane, etc before they can go out and do nice mundane things like
throw rocks at broos.
My nomination for a starter campaign is to make the PCs outsiders (e.g.
Lunar settlers?) arriving in DP/Prax (Maybe that's just 'cause I've just
finished reading a book about the Oregon trail at the same time as I've
been looking over Borderlands again). This way, the GM may know the gospel
(greg-spel?) about the area the game is set in, but doesn't have to explain
it to the players; the players can use any kind of historical parallel for
their PCs (OK, _that's_ not necessarily in line with the Gregspel, but who
cares - it's offstage now, they've got to make a new life _here_)
Maybe I've just suffering from thirtysomething nesting urge?
Duncan Hedderley
---------------------
From: H...@LETT.KUN.NL
Subject: Convulsion '94 video
Message-ID: <BCA20D1E8...@LETT.KUN.NL>
Date: 9 Sep 94 12:25:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6134
Hello video lovers!
A short interim report here. Interest is higher than it was for the RQ-Con
video earlier this year. Probably the opportunity to see yourself (or others)
making a fool of yourself (themselves) in a silly hat is more enticing than
the opportunity to see Greg answer Important Questions. Obviously, you can
get those answers transcribed and that won't be done for How the West was One.
Anyway, how are we going to do this? First of all, requests are still
coming in, so I am going to wait a bit longer. No, there is no deadline
on this, but it is easier for me to do a lot at the same time. Secondly,
there have been several requests for an NTSC version. I have asked David
Gadbois (gad...@cs.utexas.edu), the first such requestor, if he would want
to do the organisation, distribution etc. for the USA. He is an experienced
distributor for Reaching Moon MegaCorp, after all. He agreed even without me
having to threaten that I wouldn't send him his copy. So, anyone wishing
to get an NTSC copy can contact David. Of course, I will let David know
who has already requested a copy or who still sends me mail about NTSC copies.
Finally, the European market (or, in fact, anyone else who wants PAL).
Like I said above, I will wait a bit longer and then get in touch with
all of you. Blessed be the patient, for they shall have time upon their
hands.
I also received a couple of requests for the RQ-Con video. Let me first say
that most of that is available in a much more accessible format as the
RQ-Con Compendium from David Cheng (drc...@sales.stern.nyu.edu). Apart
from the Trollball, of course, which he couldn't get transcribed. That
aside, yes, you can still get a copy. As for the NTSC version, David Gadbois
can help you and possibly Wizard's Attic can provide it too. For PAL,
write to me.
Until later,
Hans van Halteren (h...@lett.kun.nl)
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: OTE/Glorantha
Message-ID: <940909115...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 9 Sep 94 12:55:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6135
Loren, you're a real teaser... Can you tell us more 'bout OTE?
Referring to Loren Miller in
news:rec.games.frp.misc <34nmv7$c...@netnews.upenn.edu>:
>In my constant quest to waste my time converting yet another game
>system to yet another setting I've been struck by the idea (posted on
>this very newsgroup) to use Over The Edge game mechanics to run a
>Gloranthan (RuneQuest) game. The idea is actually pretty darn good,
>and sounding better all the time.
>Why?
>1. Gloranthan magic and divine powers and mythic powers are better
>described as guidelines than as strict rules. They would fit right
>into the OTE "write your own game mechanics" style of play. "You have
>a priestess of Kyger Litor, mother of Trolls? OK, you have a slave
>Dehori, you can frighten people, you can become nearly invisible, you
>can lead a worship ceremony, you start with a rating of 2 Dice in this
>trait, you have 3 shots of this mythic power, and you must attend a
>worship ceremony to get them back once spent."
>2. Heroquests require spur-of-the-moment definition of game terms, and
>OTE style "write your own mechanics" descriptors would be perfect for
>this.
>3. It's too hard to make up NPCs in RuneQuest, since you are
>encouraged if not required to fill out every skill on a character
>sheet for each NPC. It's easy to make up OTE NPCs, all you need are
>Trait descriptors that you can write on the back of an envelope while
>on the train to Gettysburg.
>--
>Loren Miller <lo...@hops.wharton.upenn.edu>
>I can tell by your shoes that you are a lover of liberty
---------------------
From: wat...@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: spirit languages?
Message-ID: <1994090915...@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 9 Sep 94 17:21:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6136
> Anything with a spirit in it is obviously a binding object if there is
> no user restriction which excludes the person holding it. However, you can
> only communicate with the spirit if a) you have a language in common and b)
> the spirit wants to talk or you force it to talk. Until you do so, you can't
> tell the power of the enchantment. Even then, a stupid or obstructionist
> spirit might not inform you correctly.
The way I understood it, a bound spirit doesn't get any option on the
cooperation front. It is obliged, nay, compelled, to do as it's instructed
(so long as the user is not excluded by enchantment conditions). This is
one of the basic functions of the binding enchantment. You don't have to cast
Dominate Magic Spirit every time you want your bound Magic Spirit to cast a
spell. Do you?
Regarding languages, do we really need a Summoned Spirit Random Language
Determination Table? I don't think so. I assume that basic communication
with spirits is done at a very low level, almost subconscious. Actual language
doesn't come into it, it's all done with mental pictures, feelings and such.
Now, you won't be able to a have a very lucid discussion about the nature of
the universe, but I think the protocol gives enough flexibility to glean a few
basic facts about a creature: truename, abilities etc.
Control-type spells allow you to get such information (see Summoning rules)
and my assumption is that a bound spirit is, while bound, effectively
Controlled in the same way.
On the whole, I think that most enchanted items should be fairly easy to
identify *unless the GM wants to keep it secret for some reason*.
MGF and all that.
___
CW.
---------------------
From: yfc...@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: gamers/God Learners phooey!
Message-ID: <9409091631.aa26493@uk.ac.ed.castle>
Date: 9 Sep 94 15:31:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6137
Devin writes :
>No flames from me Jonas...my position on this matter (in agreeement with
>yours) is nigh infamous. Regional variations must and certainly do exist, but
>we as gamers/God Learners could certainly do with a baseline "truth" from
>which variations spring forth and diverge.
You watch out who you call a God Learner! I vigourously deny it. In my opinion
the God Learners were WRONG. Ok, they discovered a very powerfull technique,
but they abused and missused it apallingly. RQ Sight was not intrinsicaly
bad, their mistake was to use this technique to construct the monomyth. We
must remember that the monomyth failed, it was an unmitigated disaster. This
is because it is a fundamentaly false and dammaging influence on Glorantha.
Simon Hibbs
yfc...@castle.ed.ac.uk
---------------------
From: 10010...@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: What my father told me.
Message-ID: <940909165133_100...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 9 Sep 94 16:51:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6138
Hi all,
I recently wrote a 'What My Father Told Me - A Personal View of Life in Sun
County' for a new PC in my Prax campaign.
As MOB quite rightly pointed out to me in a private post, Mike Dawson's has
already been published on the back cover of the GM's ref in SotB but, if anyone
would like to see a different interpretation then I'll be happy to post it. The
file is about 11895 bytes in ASCII format so would be about 1/2 a 'part' of the
Daily. I appreciate that some of you might not want that much of the Daily to
be taken up by one post.
If three people tell me they want it, by private post or on the Daily then I'll
post it.
Although if you tell me 1/2 way through some long post on the finer points of
GRoY then I probably won't see it ;-)
For the record, I didn't write the WMFTM because I don't like Mike Dawson's -
it's just I didn't remember that I owned a book that had one in. So, it is not
derivative in any way from that which is already in print.
Let me know.
All the best,
Peter
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Two cults uploaded to ftp site
Message-ID: <940909184...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 9 Sep 94 08:47:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6139
I have uploaded cult writeups for Vinga and for Teelo Norri to the
ftp.csua.berkeley.edu site. They're currently in the /pub/runequest/uploads
directory until Shannon moves them to the /pub/runequest/cults directory.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Newted as a Nick.
Message-ID: <940909220...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 9 Sep 94 22:00:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6140
Nick Brooke speaks of A Big Newt:
> We Greydogs are
> all de facto initiates in his cult (except the Humakti, but they aren't
> Greydogs any more)
I'm sure you know your own tribe, Nick (said in a wary, if not skeptical
tone), but are Humakti really booted out of the clan? I take it as a
given that this is generally true for tribes _other_ than the Lismelder.
However, I see the Lismelder as having rather more "integrated" Humakti,
with Humakt replacing some of the traditional Orlanth roles.
> Stephen is also keen to design a "Masters of Luck and Death". A guy named
> Charles Morehouse has done his own version of this game; David Cheng could
> put you in touch, though it isn't meant to be compatible with the DP games
> (completely different mechanics etc.).
Has this version actually been published, or is the author still attempting
to perform the correct Propiate Chaosium rituals? Assuming the latter,
what do the prospects look like?
> On this list, I'd imagine you're
> already aware of Joerg Baumgartner, our resident wargamer (we HAMMERED him
> at Dragon Pass!), who's working on the same part of the world (though from
> a military rather than a HeroQuesting perspective, it appears).
I'll look out for the Crack Aeolian Form Storm Batallion.
> i) The dark face of the Red Moon is visibly black within the Glowline;
> thus, whereas outside the Glowline the moon is not visible for two days of
> every week (as in our world at dark of moon), within the Empire's bounds it
> is possible to see a jet-black orb by daytime.
This would tend to limit the "turning from red to black" reported behaviour
to within the glowline, which would be boring, and put the kibosh on the
Orlanthi rhetoric Joerg reports.
> ii) A red halo or moon-ring rather like a corona appears around the moon,
> getting brighter as the moon wanes and fading again as it waxes. So even at
> night, you can see what phase of the moon it is.
Go the whole banana and call it a corona, say I. The term isn't strictly
applicable astromically, but close enough, since the only time you see a
corona from the earth by mundane means is when it's (apparently) round the
moon. I favour this option, on the grounds that it's the Most Funky. As
to the mythological, cosmologicaly, and spuriously explanatory consequences:
uh, I dunno, but the rationale that springs to mind would be that the corona
might be a reflection/backwash from the unseen (or partly seen) red face,
either off the sky dome, or off the substance of the middle air. If the
corona was brightest at black of moon, this would be indicated.
> There's a pretty
> nifty curse on it, too (though it's not as heavy as the one on "Argrath's
> Saga"
There isn't one on Argrath's Saga, though. At least not the published
version. You mean the one on the KoS title page?
The myth of the Invention of Logical Quantification:
> The cupbearers asked, "Any water?"
>
> The Emperor answered, "ALL Water!"
> ^^^
> And thus came the Flood, obedient to the Emperor's Will.
Nick discovers the Pelontonius-Dendara Seven, though alas making Sadly
Americanised use of the word "impacted":
> The simplest explanation
> is that the so-called Moon of Godtime was in fact a Comet, headed straight
> for Glorantha.
> This giant body impacted Glorantha at the moment known in myth as the Death
> of Yelm.
Cast! Producer! Author! Inquisitor!!
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: T(/F)LA(s).
Message-ID: <940909220...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 9 Sep 94 22:09:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6141
Martin Crim:
> Coins: I don't think trade god cultists should be able to
> Detect Debased or Clipped Coinage for free at will. Maybe DDCC
> is a cult special spirit magic spell? ;-)
Nah, but they prolly get DDCCB.
ABF.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Yet more Suns.
Message-ID: <940909224...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 9 Sep 94 22:43:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6142
Peter Metcalfe:
> Hedderley writes
> ================
> >All this cult discussion (eg the Vinga thread) seems a bit too PRECISE for my
> >taste. We're talking about myths and symbols here, and all this highfalutin'
> >theology takes the magic and mystery away.
> Hear, hear. This is one of the major reasons that I attempt to identify
> Antirius as Yelmalio as Elmal (but not Khelmal - after all that's Harald's
> perogative) or Entekos as Molanni.
This confuses me no end. Wondering what Vinga's cult is like, in particular
areas takes all the magic and mystery away, while making identifications
between culturally distinct gods doesn't?
> If we accept that Elmal is a different god from
> Antirius or Yelmalio, then we have severe problems (IMO) in trying to sort
> out what happened to the Elmali tribes in the time of King Tarkalor.
This is a false dichotomy, of course, one we might entitle God Learners'
Choice. Asked: "Are these two gods the same", one should respond "What do
you mean by "the same"?"; "Who's asking the question?"; "How would one tell?"
and the ever-popular, "What's in it for me/you/him?".
Hopefully the questioner will have forgotten what he wanted to know by this
point.
To take perhaps the least controversial identification (though also the most
controversial, for quite different reasons), that of Elmal and Yelmalio.
Their cults, viewed the the GoG shortform level, are (IMO) much the same,
except for having different associates. They fill reasonably similar
mundane social roles, and are generally obvious latter-day God Learner
fodder. But would a Sartarite Narri clansman and a Praxian Sun Domer
agree that they worshipped the same god? I find it very unlikely. If we
decided they worshipped the "same" god, would this mean the former couldn't
DI against the latter, or that the second could Divine information about
the first? Not very satisfactory, in my view.
> They
> 'wished to be able to bring a sunspear from their god'. Since Elmal does not
> teach fire magics (and is probably not assoicated with Yelm to get the Sun
> Spear), then what the dissidents are trying to do is to change to another god.
> To me, this smacks of concious God Learnerism.
Their logic isn't too unfathomable. They know that they worship the sun
(the thing I point to when I say "Sun"), and they know that Yelm worshippers
(who _obviously_ worship the sun, and there's only one sun, right?) can
bring Sunspears, so it must be possible.
Of course, the precise route they used to bring this about is to "discover"
that Yelmalio is Yelm's son, and hence his associate, therefore getting
said Sunspear.
Besides, I'd have thought Peter would have been The Last Person to decry
conscious God Learnerism. (That line: Copyright MCMLXLIV Sanford Petersen.)
> IMO, the Elmali dispute was settled by bringing in an Elvish version of
> the cult that allowed some cult members to cast sun spear (ie High
> Priest and Light Son) rather than a totally hardline solar cult that
> allows sun spear to be know by everybody (from Yelm).
The "dispute" was settled by the two groups being physically separated so's
they stop beating each other up (old Sartar), and by the Yelmalions beating
up their local Elmali (Farpoint). As to what the original source of the
Yelmalio cult itself was, it hardly solves anything to suppose it has an
elvish origin, although I don't doubt the elves have their own sun god,
with whom Yelmalio (and/or Elmal) has been identified/confused with, at
various places and times.
> As for rituals, they're designed to
> explain certain points about the god to the masses.
Couldn't disagree more. The rituals, for most purposes, _are_ the religion,
not a PR bolt-on.
> I think Naveria is actually the wife of Yelm. Given that Dendara is
> the bright face of the Earth brightened by Yelm (and Gorgorma is the
> dark face - look at the moon for what I describing)
Funny you should mention the moon in this context: if the pre-Time moon
displayed phases, it occurs to me that it may be identified with _both_
Dendara and Gorgorma, by this logic. If the Pelandans regarded the moon
as Entekos, this would explain all the hubub about the relationship between
those two.
> Shar means Red. We know that much. Any idea on what Gash means? However
> Shargash appears to have been a mortal human during the reign of Murharzarm.
No evidence, but I'd guess the connotation to be along the lines of Thud'n'
Blunder.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: That a-cursed Bless Crops.
Message-ID: <940909233...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 9 Sep 94 23:39:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6143
Arg...@aol.com needles:
> Alex moans:
> >Bryan J. Maloney asserts:
> >> First, Bless Earth is necessary to merely get a "normal" crop
> >>in Genertela.
> >Does anyone have a source for the "Truth" of this?
> At the Gloranthan lore auction, Greg and Sandy said something
> pretty close to this.
You mean, just after Greg suggests that the whole Genert/Pamalt comparison
is a God Learner stitch-up? I think we have a Classic Greg/Sandy Split
here.
> Check page 60 of the RuneQuest-Con
> Compendium. I thought there was something specifically on Bless
> Crops, but couldn't find it.
Sandy's statement seems to suggest that you need Bless Crops to grow
_anything_, even _somewhat_ successfully, which I find hard to
swallow. On the other hand, I believe many Genertelans may believe it,
so I should congratulate Sandy for his Glorantha-levelism.
> >This would seem more likely if either: Pameltela actually _was_
> >more fertile than Genertela; ...
> It is. See same citation, above.
I don't think this makes much sense. If Pamaltela had twice the population
of Genertela, rather than half, this might be marginally more convincing.
Alex.
---------------------
From: WAL...@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU
Subject: Heroes magazine
Message-ID: <01HGX2LLM...@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU>
Date: 9 Sep 94 13:45:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6144
I recently acquired some Heroes magazines (I traded Magic cards for them).
Vol 1, numbers 1-6
vol 2, numbers 1-4
Could someone drop me a note and tell me how many of these
were printed, and if they are worth anything? (I have not
had much time to look at them)
Thanks, Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a Luxite out of my hat!
Ed Again???
Wal...@vax2.winona.msus.edu
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6145: =
- cult writeups
6146: =
- Thanks, and heres more!
6147: =
- Vinga, a la Bryan.
6148: =
- Deer matrices.
6149: =
- Wrong temple, wrong islands.
6150: =
- Pelorian/Pelandan Potshots.
6151: =
- Praxian carnivores;
6152: =
- Spirits; fertility
6153: =
- PJW's Father Told Me...
6154: =
- You say goodbye, and I say hello
6155: =
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 10 Sep 1994, part 1
---------------------
From: seve...@CERF.NET
Subject: cult writeups
Message-ID: <1994091005...@nic.cerf.net>
Date: 9 Sep 94 15:28:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6145
For Ian Gorlick - please e-mail me the writeups you have for Vivamort, etc.
---------------------
From: DCOW...@UTMEM1.UTMEM.EDU
Subject: Thanks, and heres more!
Message-ID: <01HGXB0AN...@UTMEM1.UTMEM.EDU>
Date: 9 Sep 94 16:47:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6146
Thanks for all the responses on determining magical properties :)
Does anyone have a cult work up, or information on Yelornans? I have a new
player to play a female in a Prax campaign, and thought that cult would be
best. Are there Babeester Gor in Prax?
Also, I've been reading up on the old HeroQuesting rules, and it says that
typically, a shadow of Humakt is faced as the PC "overcomes death" to enter and
return from the God Plane. If this is true, and coupled with the fact that
when Humakti are dead, they are DEAD, do Humakti HeroQuest(I know Arkat did).
If so, is it a shadow of Humakt that they face as well.
Other than the obligatory die rolls in the Cults book, what do you do if a pc
is qualified for Rune Lord status(like a Humakti). I know there has to be an
openning, but it seems so cheap for the GM to say there is an openning, and
just make the die rolls. Right now, I am making a near Rune Level Humakti
undertake two LARGE missions for the temple as cult service. If he is
succesfsful in both should this be enough? I kinda wanted to ask some deep,
cult-morality type questions as well. opinions??
David (Ratboy) Cowling
dcow...@utmem1.utmem.edu
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Vinga, a la Bryan.
Message-ID: <940910011...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 10 Sep 94 01:17:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6147
Bryan J. Maloney:
> Note that while [Vinga's] is written as an independent "cult",
> its political position is as an Orlanth subcult--basically, the relationship
> is more complex than simple Godlearner constructs will allow.
Also pretty much a subcult in rules terms, as Bryan describes it, so I'm
confused as to what all the argy-bargy about the s-word was.
> Elmal: Orlanth's loyal thane gives his sister-in-arms the spell Sunspear.
> This is only in lands where Elmal is worshipped instead of Yelmalio.
I think it's generally agreed that Elmal doesn't _have_ Sunspear, so I'd
suggest Catseye, as per Yelmalio. Or rather, instead of, as I can't see
why they'd be associates, if their mythic relationship were as described.
> Eurmal: Eurmal and Vinga had many adventures together. He grants Charisma
> and Remove Penis to his sometimes companion.
Since Vingans are generally without penises, isn't the latter spell somewhat
useless? To (boringly) adhere to the usual relationship between associates,
I'd read "and" as "or", here.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Deer matrices.
Message-ID: <940910013...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 10 Sep 94 01:33:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6148
Mike.Dickison tabulates:
> Latin USA Europe Description
> Cervus sp Elk Wapiti Large red forest deer
Not quite:
> Latin Confused Colonials Native Americans British
> Cervus sp Elk Wapiti Red deer
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Wrong temple, wrong islands.
Message-ID: <940910055...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 10 Sep 94 05:55:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6149
Colin Watson quoting:
> Alex on renewing Rune spells:
> >I don't see there being a _huge_ problem where it's simply a case of
> >which spells a particular temple "stocks", for example, if an Orlanth
> >Thunderous Priest wants to renew Cloud Call at an Orlanth Adventurous
> >temple that doesn't provide it, if you have the manpower and knowhow to
> >do the appropriate ritual. (Big if.)
> I think this would tend to alter the temper of the temple giving it a more
> "Thunderous" aspect. This might have undesirable consequences for the Orlanth
> Adventurous worshippers unless the temple size is sufficient to support two
> aspects.
Yup, I think that's exactly what the long-term effects would be. I was
thinking of one-offs, where the natives just stood suspiciously by as the
differently-aspected newcomers did their stuff, and the two worshipped
entirely separately.
> If you go through the necessary rituals to get Great Parry from what was
> initially a Bless Crops shrine (whatever that might require) then the locals
> may find afterwards that they can't get Bless Crops from it anymore; only
> Great Parry (until someone of equally heroic stature switches it back).
Yup, but there you have two aspects which as substantially different
(different goddesses, in fact), and which are somewhat "opposed" (Benign/
Malign Earth). Where the gods/aspects are more similar/compatible, it
should be progressively less drastic.
> >Whether temple _size_ as such is a particular handicap over and above this
> >I'm not sure.
> I feel that there must be sufficient worship to maintain the spell-links to
> the godplane.
Yeah, but the question is, over what period of time does a temple have to
have a given "volume" of worship, in order to function at a particular
"size". My feeling is that the RQ3 rules, which basically say that you
have to wait until the next HHD before your size is "reassessed" is probably
an oversimplification, and too strict.
Jonas Schiott confesses in reponse to my assertion (about the IG as a
rune source):
> >Only a crazed theorist or a
> >died-in-the-wool henotheist would made this sort of classification
> Yes, well, I might very possibly be one or the other. Then again, I might
> not. Who can tell?
Hard to tell from here, but I was claiming that few _Gloranthans_ would do
so, if this wasn't evident... I take it as a given that most of us are
crazed theorists, died-in-the-wool henotheists, or both. ;-)
> I think I lost you there. Wasn't your theory that only Celestial Courtiers
> had Infinity?
Yup.
> But as I also mentioned in an earlier posting, Sandy has
> stated for the record (or at least for the daily) that the assigning of
> Infinity versus doubled runes is _not_ done in any orderly fashion.
I missed both of you saying this. I thought Sandy cleaved to the Original
Source/Non-Original Source distinction?
> So what're we quibbling about, anyway?
> I no longer read postings about Elk/Moose.
Which reminds me. ;-) While quibbling earlier about Ygg's isles, I'd
managed to totally forgot where they were, and confuse them with the
(tinier and isolateder) islands to the west of the glacier. Duh. Given
that they are in fact pretty close to the Fronelan mainland, it'd be
perfectly plausible to have the odd Alces alces on them, if you believe
they exist in Fronela. For the same reason, I doubt they're dwarf/giant
varieties, either... I still don't think they're the Original Source of
moose/elk, though, which is what I (mis?)took Joerg's original comment to
imply.
Alex (fumbling World Lore).
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Pelorian/Pelandan Potshots.
Message-ID: <940910063...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 10 Sep 94 06:39:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6150
Joerg construes my disagreement as puzzlement:
> > Pelandan culture is pretty much extinct, so the Dara Happan version is
> > the Official Line. (I think Greg (and Nick) only mentioned the Pelandan
> > "dating" when we squeezed it out of him afterwards.)
> Dara Happan culture has been thoroughly Lunarized, so what the Emperor
> says is true (not only just).
Begging the question. The Pelandans had already gone by the time the Lunars
got there, so they hardly get to pick and choose between the versions on an
equal basis.
> >> Still we have no incling what makes a stellar body a moon.
> > It's "thing I point to when I say `moon'". Given that Glorantha has only
> > had two (or so) a case by case "definition" isn't very hard.
> Or so. The Seshnegi referred to the southpath planets as moons in older
> sources. Does this give the moon rune to Tolat?
If you meant "possesses the moon rune", then read definition as "thing a
God Learner points to when he says `moon'".
> >> The Pelorian Earth Rune might well be round. After all, the Pelorian bowl
> >> is roughly round as well.
> > Given Lodril's association with squareness, I doubt this.
> Well, the Pelorian rune for deep fire is square. See GRoY pp.
> 13 (Akuturos), 25 (Elvtios), and 63 (Lodril's staff).
And what does "deep" mean, pray, if not "connected to the earth"?
> > And the historical
> > (as opposed to Merely Mythic) worship of Yelm dates _after_ the nomad
> > occupation of Peloria.
> Who do you think was worshipped by the nomads? Kargzant? Who is now?
Who is now Kargzant, I'd guess. If you're asserting that they worship
Yelm qua Yelm, then you know more (or less?) than I.
But that wasn't my point (as if Joerg particularly cared what my point was),
which is that _prior_ to the nomad invasion, sun worship may have been less
prominent. Whom they worshipped while the Pentans were about is neither
here nor there.
> >> It coexists with "davu", probably another gentile deity.
> > Explain this one to me more slowly.
> davu, or in later names devu, is a name component.
But what has this to do with gentiles, and deities?
Alex.
---------------------
From: AND...@delphi.com
Subject: Praxian carnivores;
Message-ID: <01HGYCOMQ...@delphi.com>
Date: 10 Sep 94 12:43:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6151
allyr
Been out of town for a while. To pick up two old lines:
>Praxian carnivores, no one seems to have mentioned dinosaurs: I remember
there were packs of deionychus running around in Borderlands, frex
>Kallyr, aside from being the one who light the flame in Boldhome on day
88, I wonder if she was the one in the 1629 marriage, as implied by
Minaryth Purple. Suppose it is possible that she married Argrath! Note
also that Minaryth's account has her being killed by Harrek. This may
explain why Jar-eel "reappears" after Harrek kills her! The description
of Jar-eels' death in the main saga may actually be a description of
Kallyr's death! Also suggests again the ruthlessness of Argrath, who
plays footsie with so bad a guy as Harrek!
---------------------
From: Arg...@aol.com
Subject: Spirits; fertility
Message-ID: <940910182...@aol.com>
Date: 10 Sep 94 22:24:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6152
I said:
>>Anything with a spirit in it is obviously a binding object if
>>there is no user restriction which excludes the person holding
>>it. However, you can only communicate with the spirit if a) you
>>have a language in common and b) the spirit wants to talk or
>>you force it to talk. Until you do so, you can't tell the
>>power of the enchantment. Even then, a stupid or
>>obstructionist spirit might not inform you correctly.
Colin Watson replied:
>The way I understood it, a bound spirit doesn't get any option
>on the cooperation front. It is obliged, nay, compelled, to do
>as it's instructed (so long as the user is not excluded by
>enchantment conditions). This is one of the basic functions of
>the binding enchantment. You don't have to cast Dominate Magic
>Spirit every time you want your bound Magic Spirit to cast a
>spell. Do you?
I quote: "People in physical contact with an enchanted item can
mentally communicate with a creature bound inside (if there are
no conditions to the contrary) and can automatically command the
creature to use its abilities." (MB, page 57.) Note that the
word "automatically" modifies "command" and not "communicate."
Mental communication does not mean, necessarily, language-less
communication, and certainly does not mean mind-reading (not that
Colin suggested this, I just want to be comprehensive).
>Regarding languages, do we really need a Summoned Spirit Random
>Language Determination Table? I don't think so. I assume that
>basic communication with spirits is done at a very low level,
>almost subconscious. Actual language doesn't come into it, it's
>all done with mental pictures, feelings and such. Now, you won't
>be able to a have a very lucid discussion about the nature of
the universe, but I think the protocol gives enough flexibility
to glean a few basic facts about a creature: truename, abilities
>etc.
Well, your world is your world, but if I were a player, I'd have
a heck of hard time suspending my disbelief to the point where a
character could order a bound spirit to reveal its true name and
abilities without the use of language. If we were still back in
the days when there was Spirit Speech, I'd say you needed that to
talk to spirits. I am thankful there has been no mention of that
language in a long time.
As for random generation tables: don't you know who and what
every spirit in your world is?
>Control-type spells allow you to get such information (see
>Summoning rules) and my assumption is that a bound spirit is,
>while bound, effectively Controlled in the same way.
This is directly contrary to the rules, which note a rather large
difference between bound+controlled spirits and merely bound
spirits (you can make the former come back). A commanded spirit
answers one question per casting of the spell (MB, page 54).
Alex Ferguson points out, re: the question "are Yelmalio and
Elmal the same god?":
>This is a false dichotomy, of course, one we might entitle God
>Learners' Choice. Asked: "Are these two gods the same", one
>should respond "What do you mean by "the same"?"; "Who's asking
>the question?"; "How would one tell?" and the ever-popular,
>"What's in it for me/you/him?".
Let's not forget the also-popular "Why do you want to know?"
Alex tries to change the subject:
>Arg...@aol.com needles:
>>Alex moans:
>>>Bryan J. Maloney asserts:
>>>>First, Bless Earth is necessary to merely get a "normal"
>>>>crop in Genertela.
>>>Does anyone have a source for the "Truth" of this?
>>At the Gloranthan lore auction, Greg and Sandy said something
>>pretty close to this.
>You mean, just after Greg suggests that the whole Genert/Pamalt
>comparison is a God Learner stitch-up? I think we have a
>Classic Greg/Sandy Split here.
Well, I disagree, but I'm really only quoting the above because
I've caught the never-let-anyone-else-get-the-last-word bug.
I'll be repeating this ad nauseam until Alex eats too much haggis
and dies.
>>>This would seem more likely if either: Pameltela actually
>>>_was_ more fertile than Genertela; ...
>>It is. See same citation, above.
>I don't think this makes much sense. If Pamaltela had twice the
>population of Genertela, rather than half, this might be
>marginally more convincing.
I think the error in your logic above is the unspoken assumption
that land fertility correlates directly with population. Once
you look at it that way, you can draw your own counter-example.
--Martin
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: PJW's Father Told Me...
Message-ID: <01HGZFN44...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 11 Sep 94 21:15:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6153
G'day all,
______________________
What My Father Told Me
Peter J. Whitelaw writes:
>I recently wrote a 'What My Father Told Me - A Personal View of Life in Sun
>County' for a new PC in my Prax campaign.
The sort of hardworking GM we'd all like to have!
>As MOB quite rightly pointed out to me in a private post, Mike Dawson's has
>already been published on the back cover of the GM's ref in SotB but, if
>anyone would like to see a different interpretation then I'll be happy to
>post it.
I did point this out to Peter, as he sent it to me as I'm thinking about
putting together a book of more scenarios in and around Sun County. As a
WMFTM has already been published for Sun Domers (in SotB) I said that we
probably wouldn't need a second version. This is not to say I didn't like
it though, 'cos I did! And I suggested he post it to the Daily for wider
appreciation.
>The file is about 11895 bytes in ASCII format so would be about 1/2 a 'part'
>of the Daily. I appreciate that some of you might not want that much of
>the Daily to be taken up by one post.
>If three people tell me they want it, by private post or on the Daily then
>I'll post it.
Make me one of the three.
>Although if you tell me 1/2 way through some long post on the finer points of
>GRoY then I probably won't see it ;-)
Me neither...
>For the record, I didn't write the WMFTM because I don't like Mike
>Dawson's - it's just I didn't remember that I owned a book that had one in.
>So, it is not derivative in any way from that which is already in print.
What a wonderful thing it is to own *too many* RQ books so that you can
forget you've got information on something and have to make it up yourself!
(Now that I've let the (shadow)cat out of the bag, what do people think of
another book of adventures in and around Sun County? Book might also
feature a brief run-down of the Elmal/Yelmalio business too. I have a
number of scenarios worth running with, including one set in the Count's
recently-opened halite mines at Pent Ridge out in Vulture's Country. But, hey,
I gotta finish SotRM first!)
Cheers
MOB
---------------------
From: Arg...@aol.com
Subject: You say goodbye, and I say hello
Message-ID: <940910212...@aol.com>
Date: 11 Sep 94 01:23:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6154
And now for something MOB can use in his game: Gloranthan
greetings. I will attempt to put some flesh on the bones (and
stimulate some response from people who have their own examples) by showing
how I think various Gloranthans say hello and goodbye. I am NOT going to try
to think of cute fantasy variations on the words "hello" or "goodbye," as I
think it fairly pointless.
The variables are much the same for all the groups I discuss
below:
1) how closely the persons are related: stranger->known non-kin->
distant kin or friend->close kin,
2) what rank the person has: slave->freeman->noble or priest->
royalty,
3) for strangers, how like-us the person is: different species->
outlander->neighboring culture->same culture (same tribe for
Praxians)->possible kin, and
4) how friendly they are
as well as the obvious variables (like what the greeter wants to
get from the greetee.
Sartarites and Heortlanders
---------------------------
A stranger who appears to be a slave gets a "Hey, you!" The same
for an unknown outlander, Praxian, or sailor. (Note that this is
a common form of address in the U.S., where we not only abhor
class distinction but also have no manners.) If you don't mind a
few archaic words in your game, "sirrah" is a derogatory term for
a person of low social class. From "Hey, you!" the conversation
progresses through "Take off your hat in front of your superiors"
and other such pleasantries.
A freeman addressing a fellow freeman who is known but distant
kin or family says something like "Welcome, brother, how is it
with you?" or, if the kin had been traveling, "...how was your
journey? Have you eaten?" While saying this, they clasp wrists.
If they haven't seen each other in a while, they ask after each
others' close families, and expect to learn quite detailed
information about their doings.
When close kin meet after not seeing each other for a while (that
is, a day or more), they hug each other. If they haven't seen
each other for quite a long time (over a week), they exchange
kisses on the cheeks.
A king greets an important stranger with a grave "Welcome to our
land, honored sir. Come, rest and eat with us." Other
formalities, more free in form, follow.
On departure, people of like rank say "A safe journey, a peaceful
journey." If they don't expect to see each other for a while,
there will be tears and hugs.
Well, I'm not going to ring the changes. Anyone else have some
ideas, especially on challenges and other unfriendly greetings?
Uz
--
In addition to the standard variables, there is a strong gender
factor. Uz are raised from birth to treat females as superior to
males, and any young male who so much as speaks rudely to a
female uzko gets beaten. All uz are considered much-like-us, and
it is rare for an uz other than a merchant to greet a human.
When they do, they try to imitate the customs of the human.
An uz greeting a more powerful uz who is not close kin gives the
traditional "Here, eat this instead of me, and while you're
eating, let's talk" as set out in Trollpak. If he doesn't have
any food, he says "Please don't kill me."
An uzko greeting a less powerful uzko or any enlo says "What do
you want?" or "What are you doing here?" Note that males never
speak this way to female uzko, even if they outrank them (which
is rarely the case except for Karrg's Sons and the like). A male
greeting a lower ranking female uzko something like "Excuse me,
auntie, but I need to talk to you" or "Welcome, auntie, it's good
to darksense you. Come and eat." Substitute sister or even
niece if the male is much older than the female.
An enlo trying to get an uzko's attention gives a high pitched
whine like a beaten dog and strokes the uzko's arm or leg while
saying "I'm sorry, mistress [or master], please excuse your
worthless slave ..." It's all rather disgusting to watch, or
even think about. The word for fawning in Darktongue translates
literally as "to act like an enlo." No wonder the uzko's
response is often a backhanded blow to the face of the enlo.
An uzko or uzdo slave addressing its master is less enlo-ish than
an enlo, but still sickeningly subservient.
A good way for an uzko to greet an uzuz is to prostrate himself
at the uzuz's feet, and beg "Oh, please, mistress, tell me what
you want me to do." (This comes from a PC in Mike Dawson's game,
and strikes me as completely appropriate.)
An unfriendly greeting is to say "Down on your knees, slave."
Note that this is the same as a friendly greeting to a slave. An
unfriendly greeting to a slave is a kick.
Praxians
--------
A friendly greeting shows that one is unarmed. A rider holds up
the right hand, palm towards the other person, while keeping the
reins in the left hand. (Agimori never put down their weapons;
they know that other Agimori will never attack them, so they have
no fear of them, and they know that non-Agimori cannot be
trusted.)
If two men meet who are strangers of the same tribe, they say
something like "Waha be with you." If, on the other hand, they
are of different tribes, they say "Peace to you and your kin."
If of the same clan but not close kin, they greet each other by
name, and say "Waha walks with you." Close kin just say each
others' names and clasp each other's upper arms.
The goodbye of the Praxians is "Waha be with you." It is NOT
"Happy trails to you, until we meet again. Happy trails to you,
keep smiling until then."
Hope you enjoy this, and will help me flesh it out.
--Martin
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 10 Sep 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <01HGZKSDM...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 12 Sep 94 02:23:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6155
Alex wrote
>> If we accept that Elmal is a different god from
>> Antirius or Yelmalio, then we have severe problems (IMO) in trying to sort
>> out what happened to the Elmali tribes in the time of King Tarkalor.
>This is a false dichotomy, of course, one we might entitle God Learners'
>Choice. Asked: "Are these two gods the same", one should respond "What do
>you mean by "the same"?"; "Who's asking the question?"; "How would one tell?"
>and the ever-popular, "What's in it for me/you/him?".
A clarification here. Of course the worshippers would regard them as being
different gods. That is their subjective view. What I am talking about is the
objective view which would be useful if say a lost Caladralander Lodril priests
manages to make his way across the wastes to see the temple of Solf. Would he
be able to regain his spells there? Yes. But if a sage asked the Solfties if
their god was Lodril, they would say no.
>But would a Sartarite Narri [Elmali] clansman and a Praxian Sun Domer
>agree that they worshipped the same god? I find it very unlikely. If we
>decided they worshipped the "same" god, would this mean the former couldn't
>DI against the latter, or that the second could Divine information about
>the first? Not very satisfactory, in my view.
DInformation? Presumably you mean divine intervention. In any case I do not
think you could DI against other people so your conundrum does not arise. DI
(IMO at least) is only used for enhancing your own situation not diminshing
various attributes of others.
>>[The dissension in the Elmali clans]
>Their logic isn't too unfathomable. They know that they worship the sun
>(the thing I point to when I say "Sun"), and they know that Yelm worshippers
>(who _obviously_ worship the sun, and there's only one sun, right?) can
>bring Sunspears, so it must be possible.
If there is only one sun, then please explain why the Elmali do not get
Sunspear? And that Monrogh only came back with a pale shadow of Yelm rather
than the true Yelm cult? I said they were trying to imitate Antirus who they
recognized (or said was) as the true form of Elmal and the most correct way to
worship.
>Of course, the precise route they used to bring this about is to "discover"
>that Yelmalio is Yelm's son, and hence his associate, therefore getting
>said Sunspear.
Hmm, but they worshipped Elmal to start off with, not Yelmalio. What the
conservative elmali were complaining about IMO was the Dara Happan nature of
the 'Antirius' cult.
> IMO, the Elmali dispute was settled by bringing in an Elvish version of
> the cult that allowed some cult members to cast sun spear (ie High
> Priest and Light Son) rather than a totally hardline solar cult that
> allows sun spear to be know by everybody (from Yelm).
>The "dispute" was settled by the two groups being physically separated so's
>they stop beating each other up (old Sartar), and by the Yelmalions beating
>up their local Elmali (Farpoint).
This is david hall's intepretation. I haven't seen any sign of the Elmali in
the Righteous Wind revolt apart from this.
>>As to what the original source of the
>>Yelmalio cult itself was, it hardly solves anything to suppose it has an
>>elvish origin, although I don't doubt the elves have their own sun god,
>>with whom Yelmalio (and/or Elmal) has been identified/confused with, at
>>various places and times.
If you read back further, I did suggest an origin for Yelmalio. As for saying
it hardly solves anything to suppose it has an elvish origin, I do not
understand. What is there that needs to be urgently 'solve'd?
>> As for rituals, they're designed to
>> explain certain points about the god to the masses.
>Couldn't disagree more. The rituals, for most purposes, _are_ the religion,
>not a PR bolt-on.
Hmm, we'll have a lot harder time trying to get regional variation that way. I
prefer to see the ritual as a magical means of communicating with the God
and/or bringing down aspects of her/him. I must confess my bias and state I
see the ceremony ritual not as a uniform skill all over Glorantha but as a
combination of traditions. Doraddi would do dances whereas the Dara Happans
might sacrifice bulls and the Kralori meditate.
>> I think Naveria is actually the wife of Yelm. Given that Dendara is
>> the bright face of the Earth brightened by Yelm (and Gorgorma is the
>> dark face - look at the moon for what I describing)
>Funny you should mention the moon in this context: if the pre-Time moon
>displayed phases, it occurs to me that it may be identified with _both_
>Dendara and Gorgorma, by this logic.
And call the Moon Oria and you have a good indication of what I suspect...
--Peter Metcalfe
RQ Daily Discussion List
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6162: =
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6163: =
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---------------------
From: 10010...@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: If you don't ask you don't get
Message-ID: <940911112741_100...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 11 Sep 94 11:27:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6156
Hi all,
MOB kindly says,
>The sort of hardworking GM we'd all like to have!
Only when the alternative is decorating and my wife isn't around...
>Make me one of the three.
Sadly MOB, you're the only one :-(
>>Although if you tell me 1/2 way through some long post on the finer points of
>>GRoY then I probably won't see it ;-)
>
>Me neither...
Despite pleas for GRoY stuff to go off-line with occasional summaries or
conclusions being made available to the (largely) disinterested masses it seems
that they persist.
I suppose we shouldn't begrudge anyone, though, who makes the effort to post
material whatever its nature.
Actually, the most useful post to come out of all of it, IMHO, was Pam Carlson's
Y(K)ELMAL(IO) a couple of days back.
>What a wonderful thing it is to own *too many* RQ books so that you can
>forget you've got information on something and have to make it up yourself!
Scatterbrained, more like.
>(Now that I've let the (shadow)cat out of the bag, what do people think of
>another book of adventures in and around Sun County? Book might also
>feature a brief run-down of the Elmal/Yelmalio business too. I have a
>number of scenarios worth running with, including one set in the Count's
>recently-opened halite mines at Pent Ridge out in Vulture's Country. But, hey,
>I gotta finish SotRM first!)
Go for it! Hard-pressed GM's need scenarios to run when they can't find the
time to create their own. Certainly, more material to support that which is
already in print should be well received by the gaming masses, whose spending
habits directly affect which lines get pushed by Games companies and which
don't.
If RQ (or whatever it may become) is to thrive it has to compete with some very
well supported products. We all laughed and jeered at the kiddy stuff that got
auctioned off at Convulsion but it is sickening to know that in the short time
Shadowrun has been around FASA have produced far more material for it than we
have seen for RQIII.
I guess that's partly why Shadowrun stuff just a year old was being flogged for
a couple of quid whilst ten year old RQ supplements were being bid up to the
heavens.
To some extent, it must be possible to create demand for a product (I'm no
economist, just a banker ;-)) in that if the slavering horder see a shelf in
their hobby store replete with well-produced RQ scenario books then they are
going to gravitate towards them?
Anyway, Sun County was a great pack and I'd like to see more of it.
All the best,
Peter
---------------------
From: QFF0...@niftyserve.or.jp (QFF00036@niftyse)
Subject: Fill your blank Truestone
Message-ID: <1994091111...@inetnif.niftyserve.or.jp>
Date: 11 Sep 94 11:29:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6157
Hellow everyone.
I have a question about Blank Truestone.
A priest who cast all his rune spells into the trunestone
(A) cannot regain them and he must resacrifice to the spell.
or
(B) can regain them when he pray in his temple as usual.
which is true?
Regards.
// Kuri (QFF0...@niftyserve.or.jp) //
---------------------
From: f6...@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: scenario for free
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.4.7...@quads.uchicago.edu>
Date: 11 Sep 94 22:46:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6160
Greg Fried here.
Peter:
I for one would welcome your WMFTM here on the Daily. Send it in!
Ian:
Please send me your cults.
Henk:
The use of tables-of-contents for the Daily is MUCH appreciated!
Bryan:
I am no expert on the Orlanth pantheon or Sartar culture (at elast in
comparison with others on this list!), but I thought your Vinga write-up was
great! Many very nice touches. No criticisms, constructive or otherwise,
but thanks for posting it. I plan to use it, if my campaign even gets to
Sartar!
Martin:
Your treatise on greetings was fun and plausible. Here are some more, based
on my East Isles campaign:
East Islanders are as open and friendly (on average) as Genertelans are
suspicious and vicious. A typical Islander greeting in the morning is
"Dawn's blessing to you!" or "Good Dawn!" or "Good day!" An afternoon
greeting is "Good day" and a good-bye is "May Theya guide you!" A dusk or
night-time greeting is "Good Eve!", and a night-time good-bye is "May your
night be short!" or "Dream well!" Of course, there are thousands of variants
and alternatives, on the thousands of islands.
Some Islanders use an interesting gesture of greeting: the
---------------------
From: f6...@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Greetings and Scenario
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.4.7...@quads.uchicago.edu>
Date: 11 Sep 94 22:54:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6161
Oops. Cut off. Greg Fried again.
As I was saying, some Islanders use an interesting gesture of greeting: they
clasp right and left hands together, interlocking the fingers, and then
rotate the clasped hands 90 degrees up and out to the person they are
greeting, causing the fingers to form the stylized image of a net -- this is
Theya's Greeting, and represents her Net.
- A Scenario
Since it has been a while, I offer again for anyone who wishes it, my
scenario "Atek's Ghost" which is set in the East Isles. I will send it by
email. It includes an adventure, plus background information. Send me mail
at my address (f6...@midway.uchicago.edu) and I will send it back to you.
The scenaio is in the "sticks and shamanism" style -- emphasizing local
culture and low-tech adventuring. It is intended for beginning players as an
introduction to RQ roleplaying.
Greg Fried out.
---------------------
From: guy....@chrysalis.org
Subject: RUNEQUEST DAI
Message-ID: <940911195...@chrysalis.org>
Date: 11 Sep 94 17:54:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6162
Alas, while I was out of town for the weekend, my BBS apparently had
some kind of malfunction, and I lost the Runequest Dailies and the
Digest from Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Can someone take pity on me
and Email these to me?
GUY (guy....@chrysalis.org)
aka Fido Two-Big-Clubs
* RM 1.3 * Eval Day 13 * RoboMail -- The next generation QWK compatible
reader!
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Basmol
Message-ID: <940912063...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 12 Sep 94 07:32:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6163
You are different from the others, child, so I will tell you a tale that
the others don't get.
You are different from your fathers.
You are different from your mothers.
You are different from your littermates.
You are different child, so I will tell you a tale that the others don't get.
You have seen me dance Basmol's Perfect Dance, haven't you, boy? You have
seen me don Basmol's Fleeting Skin, haven't you, boy? You have seen me eat
with his teeth, run with his claws, haven't you, boy? I'll tell you this,
boy--it's all a lie.
I do not wear Basmol's Skin.
I do not show Basmol's Claws.
I do not wield Basmol's Teeth.
It is all a lie.
Sit down and shut up, boy.
Sit down and listen, boy.
Sit down or you will never know, boy.
The Skin I wear is a corpse's.
The Claws I show are a corpse's.
The Teeth I wield are a corpse's.
In the days when Basmol lived, his coat was bright.
In the days when Basmol lived, his fangs were great.
In the days when Basmol lived, his claws were long.
The sky was his hunting ground.
Now, boy, we scratch the earth like old women for our food.
In the old times, we leapt like the birds.
In the old times, we clawed like the hawk.
In the old times, we danced with the sun.
Now, boy, we scratch the earth like old women for our food.
Remember these things, for you are different.
Remember that Basmol's limbs are not Basmol's limbs.
Remember that Basmol's teeth are not Basmol's teeth.
Remember that Basmol's skin is not Basmol's skin.
Curse the ones who shortened our claws.
Curse the ones who turned our teeth in.
Curse the ones who stole our wings.
---------------------
From: 10027...@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Newt News
Message-ID: <940911181250_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 11 Sep 94 18:12:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6158
_____
Alex:
> I'm sure you know your own tribe, Nick (said in a wary, if not skeptical
> tone), but are Humakti really booted out of the clan?
During play, we "booted Corwen out" when he became a Sword of Humakt. We
held his funeral/wake, drank too much Auld Mutz, and told stories about how
sad it was that he was now Dead. Mind you, he had big personal reasons for
not wanting to be one of us any more: embarrassing household problems like
those between Humakt and Orlanth (his brother had killed a Yelmalion guest
at a reconciliation dinner hosted by Fazzur Wideread). So maybe he went a
bit further than most Swords would go.
Before that, when Corwen was just a well-'ard Humakti Sword wannabe, he was
still "one of us". (I'd agree with you that, in general, Lismelder Humakti
initiates are integrated into the everyday life of their clan; I don't see
why an Indrodar cultist shouldn't stay that way forever).
Afterwards, he went off to join the tribe's Humakti, and they sent him back
to serve as a Sword-thane under our Chieftain. So now there's this foreign
guy, called Corwen, who still hangs around with us, joins us on our distant
journeys, and has a place in the weapontakes and clan moots, but he's not
one of us any more. Our brother/cousin/friend Corwen is Truly Dead.
To make my position clear: outside the limits of our own campaign game, I
do not think that all Humakti in all Orlanthi societies everywhere have to
leave their clan, divorce their wives, or anything else like that, whether
upon initiation, Sword-making (forging?), or whatever. That's just the way
it's worked for us, once. I was there. I saw it happen.
Anyway, we don't want people who wave big swords and embody Death to take
part in the Spawning Pools Ritual of the Great Newt. Might hurt somebody.
Re: "Argrath's Saga" -- I meant "Arkat's Saga".
________
Peter M:
AF>> Couldn't disagree more. The rituals, for most purposes, _are_ the
AF>> religion, not a PR bolt-on.
PM> Hmm, we'll have a lot harder time trying to get regional variation
PM> that way.
I don't follow this at all. In the same post you've postulated three local
traditions, involving dancing, bull-sacrifice and meditation, to obtain the
same spell-effect (I presume). Looks like instant regional variation to me.
Why not read something like "Patterns in Comparative Religion" (Mircea
Eliade), "The Destiny of the Warrior" (Georges Dumezil) or "The Golden
Bough" (James Frazer) to get a feel for how far mythological images or
aspects can diverge across cultures with time?
(Please don't bother answering that all Gloranthans are Sim-Gloranthan
robots whose mythical-cum-religious experience cannot be compared to
anything which arose in the real world. We've had that thread before,
and it never gets us anywhere.)
> Call the Moon Oria and you have a good indication of what I suspect...
Nice idea. Wrong, but nice. FYI, I've learned from Greg that in his view,
Feminine cycles =/= Moon cycles; pregnancy and menstruation etc. are not
connected to the Moon, except insofar as the Moon is perceived as female.
______________
David Cowling:
> Does anyone have a cult work up, or information on Yelornans? I have a
> new player to play a female in a Prax campaign, and thought that cult
> would be best. Are there Babeester Gor in Prax?
Yelorna was detailed in "Big Rubble", back in the Golden Age of player-
friendly kitchen-sink cult write-ups. Maybe someone has a copy handy, and
time enough to retype the salient points. It wasn't very cultural, IMHO.
I'd be surprised if there were no temple guardians at the Paps, but (like
the Paps religion as a whole) they'd likely be sedentary full-timers, not
roving nomadic player-character types. IMO, Babeester Gor cultists are very
very dangerous and violent influences on a campaign; I've only once given
one out as a PC, and that was for a campaign which revolved around avenging
a theft from an Esrolite shrine. Freely-roaming BGs scare me shitless.
> Do Humakti HeroQuest (I know Arkat did). If so, is it a shadow of Humakt
> that they face as well.
Yes, and Yes. Most of the recorded Staffordian HeroQuests were primarily
Humakti affairs (Six Stones, Alebard's Quest). And Humakti must always be
prepared to face Death. That doesn't mean they have to let it kill them.
Everyone who worships, HeroQuests.
> Other than the obligatory die rolls in the Cults book, what do you do if
> a PC is qualified for Rune Lord status ... I am making a near Rune Level
> Humakti undertake two LARGE missions for the temple as cult service. If
> he is succesfsful in both should this be enough? I kinda wanted to ask
> some deep, cult-morality type questions as well. Opinions??
Sounds good to me. I'd rather keep your version, and waive the "obligatory
die rolls" while fudging the numbers of 90%+ skills required. Becoming an
initiate, Rune Lord, priest, thane, sacred milkman, or bartender at Gimpy's
is a Major Campaign Event, not something to brush off as a wee mechanical
hiatus. OTOH, if your group enjoys a far-ranging campaign with low-level
social ties and no fixed abodes, maybe the mechanical way is easiest.
_______
Martin:
> I'm really only quoting the above because I've caught the never-let-
> anyone-else-get-the-last-word bug. I'll be repeating this ad nauseam...
Am I unique in paying my own $$$ to read this list? Be sociable, guys!
________
Peter W:
> The file is about 11895 bytes in ASCII format so would be about 1/2 a
> 'part' of the Daily. I appreciate that some of you might not want that
> much of the Daily to be taken up by one post.
> If three people tell me they want it, by private post or on the Daily
> then I'll post it.
I'd love to see your WMFTM, as a post to the Daily. Might prompt me to dig
up my old Esrolite WMMTM as a response. Let's open a new can-o'worms...
____
MOB:
> Now that I've let the (shadow)cat out of the bag, what do people think
> of another book of adventures in and around Sun County? Book might also
> feature a brief run-down of the Elmal/Yelmalio business too.
Can't have too much of a good thing. I say, go for it!
____
Pam:
> Can Basmol be considered to be a part of the solar scene? ... There are
> other similarities: lions are yellow, have halo-like manes, and live in
> very patriarchal societies.
The sabre-toothed god identified on the Gods Wall (Sakkar, God of Fear,
Hunter of Men) was always an Enemy to the Dara Happans. They identify with
birds; the Eagle is their Big Solar Animal.
But you'll be pleased to know that the Carmanian Padishahs of the tenth and
eleventh centuries were known as the Golden Lion Shahs, and were for most
of that time close allies (and relatives) of the Dara Happan Emperors. So
there's a whole bunch of 'solar' lion imagery in lands of the old Carmanian
Empire. Some artwork of this period combines Eagles, Lions, and Hounds to
represent the brother-kingdoms of Dara Happa, Carmania and Saird. It's one
of the strongest symbols of the era.
After the Dragonkill, the Carmanians went over to Bull worship; most of the
Lion warriors had been killed, and a bunch of barbarian usurpers took over.
They weren't related or friendly to Dara Happa after that, so everything
diverged again (mythologically, symbolically, politically, etc.).
Look at Assyria for some Real Fun Stuff.
_______________
Paul Honigmann:
> I am currently running a campaign where the PCs are interacting with
> members of the Kalikos Icebreaker cult. Can anyone tell me where info.
> on this cult can be found? or has anyone got any ideas about it,
> particularly why and how this cult is so good at dealing with ice
> demons .... that is, why they are better than other cults which have
> fire magic for example.
No bulky published info is available: if you've heard of her, and know a
star is named for her, you know more or less all that's in the public
domain. The Gloranthan Encyclopaedia had a version of her story, written
about fifteen years ago, which Greg had forgotten about completely when he
brought her back in more recent (draft/ unpublished) work as a figure from
early Pentan mythology. Her Lunar connection remains obscure.
Chris Gidlow is writing another Lunar semi-freeform (sequel to the Tarsh
War) called "The Hunt for Red Storm Season" about a defecting icebreaker;
I'll know more after we've been through that game. Current ideas are very
much tied up with the naval and strategic aspects, trireme-cum-submarine
puns (Lodril totem-torpedoes, anyone?), and those good old fashioned Lunar
Soviet parallels. Surely no coincidence that the Evil Red Empire sends
(Lenin-class?) Icebreakers out across the frozen sea... (Well, actually it
was: we surprised Greg with this after Convulsion. Must be serendipity
striking again.)
____________
Simon Jones:
> How do the initiates see in the Vivamort temples? ... My theory is that
> owing to the large amount of time spent as initiates, before achieving
> immortality, they spend their time growing accustomed to the dark...
All your suggestions sound right to me. Though in a game I'd be tempted to
have enough lighting for PCs to be able to see the terrifying rituals that
are going on, so as to create MGF. Until I really want to scare them by
having the lights go out...
____________
Simon Hibbs:
> Go right ahead, Pete. I think your ideas are interesting and reflect a
> different view of heroquesting from mine. You seem to believe in an
> underlying mythological truth, where I believe in a continuous mytho-
> logical process. That's ok.
I'll second this statement, and the whole preceding post.
====
Nick
====
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: The Blue Wizard is not GRAY...
Message-ID: <01HH0SJM0...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 12 Sep 94 22:34:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6159
Today in response to all those requests, I have decided to abstain from GRAY
bashing...
Mike Dickison writes
_____
>This is my THIRD attempt to get this to the Daily (New
>Zealand-Holland communications seem to be worse than ever,
>though that hasn't hindered my compatriot the Blue Wizard).
What's even more interesting is that my email goes to holland
through the same Waikato varsity lines as you use. Perhaps I have a
forbidden cantrip to enhance email transmission...
Liked the story of kaxtorplose.
Nils Writes
_____
>I'll really try to stop writing about moose from now on. But
>if I do find an angle to get some of them into the Dara
>Happan mythos, then I could kill two birds with one stone
>and combine two really annoying threads (according to an
>increasing number of readers) into one completely meaning-less
>megathread! :-)
It just so happens that I have uncovered this remarkable
passage in the GRAY in which 'the tall birds' appear to
be an allusion to the Aleci who are well known as a tribe
of Moose hsunchen and...
[Awful scenes of violence as Blue Wizard escapes from a lynch mob]
Simon hibbs writes
______
>>So if I believe that Yelmalio didn't really loses his fire
>>powers at the hills of Gold, I can use Fireblade? To me this
>>is simplistic. What also matters is what the enemy believes
>>about the god and what actually happened to the God himself.
>But in order to believe this, you need proof. You can get that
>proof by going to the Hills of Gold, in the path of Yelmalio,
>and defeating ZZ. This heroquest would assert your mythic
>right to the fire powers. After all, believing something is
>quite different from just thinking it.
This really comes down between knowing what the mythical
truth is and the method of finding the mythical truth.
And given the hatred of most daily readers of God
learnerism and the disdain they exhibit for hair
splitting pedantry I must abstain from elucidating
this point further.
>>I must come out into the open and state my belief that at
>>0 ST, the gods were frozen by the web.
>But the 'godtime' exists outside of time, not merely 'before'
>it. It exists in the Gloranthan 'here and now' just as much as
>in the gloranthan past. It exists beyond a veil that can be
>pierced through heroquesting. To a great extent, such
>heroquesting has created the godtime we all know about.
I must draw a distinction that I believe occurs here
between the actual events and the mythic baggage carried
on by the believers and gods in the here and now. After
all if I were to change the mythic realm by proving
Antirius equals Yelmalio, (:^)) and do it successfully
so that no nation in Glorantha pratices Antirius worship,
does the records reading Antirius spontaneously change to
Yelmalio?
Given that this is not the case, I suggest that the world
myth from which we draw our heroquests is actually distinct
from the events that occured long ago. The Gods as the
price to pay for their existance froze their particpation
of the God Time into the World myth and spend their time
maintaining the world myth. It is this that you experience
when you heroquest.
You may heroquest at the hills of Gold and kick the crap
out of Zorak Zoran. The majority of yelmalions fail because
they are striving to emulate their god. the success of one
in a personal quest does not effect the nature of the god
whose failure biases other Yelmalions to fail at the HoG.
The success of cultural heroquests I suspect depends
on the free energy of the community that is available.
For example, you proclaim a quest to bring justice to
the Cold Sun that was denied him at the HoG and succeed
so the your Yelmalions can get Sunspear. I say that you
are in effect turning your community from the ways of
Yelmalio and that you will punish the community in other
ways. ie to maintain your myth that justice was brought
to the Cold Sun, your community needs to expend free
energy into maintaining that myth and might sacrifice
some other myth (such as Yelmalios connection with the
earth) in an effort maintain your beliefs. meanwhile
other yelmalions who were not part of your quest go to
the hills of Gold and still get the crap kicked out of
them.
>>[Elmal change to Yelmalio: bad effects?]
>I am thinking about historical fusions of deities on earth.
>Such as the Roman soldier's habit of identifying local deities
>with Roman equivalents, for example the cult of Mithras/Mars.
Which is what I was suggesting was the case with Antirius/Yelmalio/Elmal! You
must remember that in many cases the RW cults often gained local color but had
some identifiable source (ie the cult of Odin/Wotan etc).
>>I do not accept this. The Gods were, the gods are. They
>>have made themselves a permanent part of glorantha.
>Will the real Yelmalio please stand up! I have difficulty
>reconciling this with your next statement.
See above for clarification.
>BTW. What the hell is the Hill of Gold anyway. Is it a place,
>or a metaphor?
The most mythically troublesome place in Glorantha. It resides in Vanch.
Beyond that i know nothing more.
Sandy Writes
_____
>TELEOS: fair game for someone to figure out. The humans here
>are so weird that the animals have got to be as peculiar at
>least as monotremes.
I'd love to figure out Teleos except I know so little about it.
>EAST ISLES: I've been doing a lot of work on the East Isles
>with Nils W. and Greg F. One conclusion worth sharing even at
>this early stage is that the Keets, while many are ducks,
>represent a wide variety of sentient flightless bird life.
>Mike's hoped-for dodos are clearly present in the East Isles.
>The Keets also are native to no particular island, but dwell
>amidst the humans. There are ducks, plovers, avocets, etc. And
>of course my personal favorite, the flamingo-men.
Oh God. Add to your list Keas (an alpine parrot which is
fond of shiny stuff, such as watches, car aerials, cameras
and scientific equipment), they can be a type of Nestorine
Pirate (ha ha geddit? - Kea sp Nestor Notabilis, oh never
mind). Presumably one isle of the East Isles is actually
flying and inhabited by sentient cuckcoos which live in a
democratic republic and everybody calls it Cloudcuckcooland?
I would say more on this subject but my head is beginning to
hurt...
Andrew Raphael
______
>I'll second the New Zealand - Jrustela connection. I
>suggested it myself a while ago, because of the timinits in
>Jrustela & what I knew of NZ's insect life. Wetas, Waitomo
>Cave, etc.
Our wetas (big crockcroach lookalikes with a nasty bite and
even bigger ones [about the size of your hand] which do not
bite - thank goodness) are not that big!
BTW speaking of Jrustela, has anybody noticed that a blue
Vadeli is floating around the place (described in Elder
secrets -scenarios -tinimits). I'm thinking that the Vadeli
conquered Jrustela because they wished to try and raise the
Sunken Vadeli lands. (The Cult of Aurelion has something to
do with it). And somebody said they were extinct!
On the subject Blue elves are shown on the Jolar map in ToTRM
#11 p13 as being around in the Nargan. I'm fairly sure that these
are not your average blue elfs and that MOB did not put them
'Sumware Orothere' as a joke. They seem to be related to the
Artmali Empire. Can anybody tell me anything more?
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6164: =
- re: OTE/Glorantha
6165: =
- Fanzine-distributors, please contact me!
6166: =
- Stop that GRoY-bashing-bashing
6167: =
- A big black stick stack?
6168: =
- tricksters, lions, and truestones
6169: =
- Re: spirit languages?
6170: =
- Pelandan culture dead ? Not in my book
6171: =
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 11 Sep 1994, part 1
6172: =
- Gloranthan Mythology
6173: =
- This and That and Truestone
6174: =
- Sartar stuff
6175: =
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 10 Sep 1994
6176: =
- Re: Greetings and Sayings
6177: =
- Introducing new folks
6178: =
- Vinga's spells
6179: =
- Shucks.
6180: =
- Q&A
6181: =
- Sun Dome & Basmoli Father's Tales
6182: =
- What My father Told Me - Sun County
6183: =
- 2nd post sans GRAY...
6184: =
- Trade; Babeester Gor; Humakt
---------------------
From: duncan.h...@afrc.ac.uk (HEDDERLE)
Subject: re: OTE/Glorantha
Message-ID: <4457090912091994_A12603_FRIR_118962362A00*@MHS>
Date: 12 Sep 94 11:10:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6164
Loren Miller (Saturday's Daily?) suggested using Over The Edge's very
simple mechanics for a Glorantha game
Very briefly, OTE's non-rules are based on a lot of GM adjudication, and the
old '2 dice and pray' approach, except that you have more than two dice in
your chosen Talents (The beauty of the system is that the Talents are
very widely defined; for instance, one talent might be Lunar Legionnairy,
covering weapons skills, small unit tactics, fieldcraft, minor magic and
the appropriate What My Sergeant Major Told Me; other ideas which occured to
me were Smith, or Troll Lore - for those Griselda wannabes)
I considered OTE for my (Probably aborted) Intifada in Pavis game, but
although it's very simple and chic, I wasn't sure it gave the feeel I wanted
from Glorantha. Partly that's 'cause to me Gloranthan combats are a long
rally of Attack-Parry-Attack-Parry, rather than OTE's much more fluid,
descriptive approach; but also because the strength of OTE is in simply
converting packages into mechanics IF YOU KNOW WHAT THE SKILL PACKAGE SHOULD
CONTAIN ANYWAY. If you know what your CIA Agent should be able to do, it's
easier to write 'CIA Agent 4 dice' than to write all his/her skills and their
appropriate %ages. OTOH, RQ 2's character sheet had occasional odd things
(like that Throw Rock skill all beginners were so good at) which reminded
you that these people were different, and would consider diffreent ways
of
doing things (eg Throwing rocks at jackals seems a very Ancient Greek type
thing to do)
So, that's my 2 clacks-worth - nice idea but not quite what I'm looking for
Duncan Hedderley
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Fanzine-distributors, please contact me!
Message-ID: <H.ea.eT0...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 12 Sep 94 08:22:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6165
Joerg here.
I need to contact Colin Phillips (sp?) and Tom Zunder, both because of
deals with Ingo Tschinke regarding distribution of Codex and
RQ-Adventures, respectively. Please contact me via e-mail, or Ingo via
surface mail!
I'd also like to get in touch with the editor/distributor of La Toile
d'Arachne Solara (I forgot which of the many namyes to use). I know
he has no e-mail access, mais c'est possible que nous avons des
participants fran,caises qui saient comment `a contacter luis.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Stop that GRoY-bashing-bashing
Message-ID: <H.ea.uax...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 12 Sep 94 08:23:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6166
Nils Weinander in X-RQ-ID: 6112
> I'll really try to stop writing about moose from now on. But if I
> do find an angle to get some of them into the Dara Happan mythos,
> then I could kill two birds with one stone and combine two really
> annoying threads (according to an increasing number of readers)
> into one completely meaning-less megathread! :-)
I found one not that meaningless: <g>
In Manimat's time (not yet Time) the Dara Happan refugees from ice and
destruction of the Dome adopt trews as the reindeer people wore. Does
this mean the Uncolings were around in southern Peloria, and probably
Pent and northern Wastelands as well?
S.W. Jones n X-RQ-ID: 6113
>
> I'd like to add my voice to chorus of taking the GRAoY discussion
> off line,
Bob Luckin in X-RQ-ID: 6120
> Hi from Bob Luckin !
> I'd like to add my voice the the chorus of agreement with David Hall's
> comments on the Endless ReInterpretation of GRoY. I'm starting to find
> these protracted arguments a bit tedious, I'm afraid. I'm also beginning
> to hate those mooses to pieces. :-)
Ok, that's another three almost in a row.
Heck, there have been more lines of complaints than of participation in
the GRoY discussion, it seems to me.
Seriously, there is a group >= 4 who wants to discuss this, and a
group >= 8 or so who yawn and don't want to see this. I don't want to
take a poll on this, but it seems we need a public forum for side issues
only a part of us is intereted in. I cannot run a mailing list from my
organisation, else I'd have started one by now.
However, there has been talk about a RQ/Glorantha/other related or
semi-related stuff newsgroup. What happened about this?
I think the participants of RQ-Daily are sufficient to create even a
rec.* group if we all participate. A while ago there was the question
what should there be to discuss on that newsgroup. Now I think we have
at least a few topics...
Well, and I'd like to see the daily and possibly also the digested
RQ4-discussion (if such a thing exists) cross-posted to this (to
be initiated) newsgroup.
Now, comments on this use (and others, like players/material wanted etc
requests, plus a RQ-FAQ...) are appreciated. On the Daily as well as in
private.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 724-9843)
Subject: tricksters, lions, and truestones
Message-ID: <01HH0R5C9...@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 12 Sep 94 04:22:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6168
Hi all
- Pam Carlson writes about several topics in x-rq-id 6126.
In regards to tricksters, I, for one, do not think it incompatible to
think of 'trickster' and 'respect' in the same sentence. That was part
of my post a couple months ago regarding Imtherian tricksters
specifically, but also a more global view. Yes, there are tricksters
who are complete outlaws and deserve to be lynched. But there are far
more who will be annoying, but still considered a necessary and even
important part of the community. And the trickster gods are often good
companions, too. (In Norse myth, Loki is always hanging around with
Odin or Thor--they must have some reason why they want him around.) It
is my belief that Orlanth likes Eurmal far more than he is willing to
admit.
There is some connection between lions and solar culture IMO. GRAY
cites a deity (Derdenath?) as a lion-maned deity who is the father of
Votank and implied to be in the Arcos valley region (if I remember
correctly). I chose Basmal for that reason, too (he of the lightning
claws and haloed mane). I think there are lions in the Rockwoods and
maybe the Jord mountains and occasionally they may be found in the Arcos
valley still. (They were hunted out of existence in Imther, though.)
It may be possible that the solar culture views lions as children of the
griffin (or gryphon if you prefer). Might be a good myth there on the
devolution to lions (or how King Gryphon gets to hell).
On the derivation of Khelmal--in origin he was derived from Yelmalio
(CoP version) partly because I wanted to explain what happened after his
wounding at the Hill of Gold and partly because I didn't like the fact
that he had lost his Cloud Clear spell. And then came the assorted
myths of the Hill of Gold, etc. The nearness of the ancient elf woods
called West Wood probably means that Khelmal in origin was closest to
Yelmalio too. Dara Happan invasion gave him an infusion of Antirius and
/or Shargash which did not disappear until the Dragonkill War. I don't
think there was much Elmal influence.
And along that line, I am nearing completion of the Khelmal cult
writeup.
- There have been several questions about the value of truestone.
I think one aspect of truestone has been left out that makes it more
valuable than an equivalent spell matrix--a truestone is pure LAW.
Truestone crushed the devil (at least in Prax) and prevents him from
rising. Though never stated, I would play that truestone has an
automatic capability similar to either Storm Bull's or Kyger Litor's
ability against Chaos. Chaos simply can't use its normal effects
against someone holding a piece of truestone. This capability would
raise its value tremendously and would add another reason why Storm
Bulls don't want pieces of it taken from the Block.
Harald
---------------------
From: wat...@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Re: spirit languages?
Message-ID: <1994091214...@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 12 Sep 94 16:08:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6169
______
Martin:
> Mental communication does not mean, necessarily, language-less
> communication, and certainly does not mean mind-reading (not that
> Colin suggested this, I just want to be comprehensive).
Sure, mental communication needn't be language-less; but I'm saying, in the
case of spirits, it usually is. Many types of spirits don't even have INT
so I hardly think they would be capable of using human-like languages. That's
why Control-type spells require the caster to form *mental images* of
the actions they wish the controlled creature to perform. They don't use
language 'cos many creatures wouldn't understand it.
I don't think its unreasonable to assume that the communication-link afforded
by a binding enchantment uses the same approach.
> I'd have a heck of hard time suspending my disbelief to the point where a
> character could order a bound spirit to reveal its true name and
> abilities without the use of language.
IT'S MAGIC for cryin'-out-loud. The character does NOT explicitly say "Hey
Mr. salamander, tell me your stats"; the salamander does NOT explicitly
reply "I'm 3 cubic meters big; my POW is 12; my STR is 17 etc...". The
exchange is implicit. The character gets an intuitive feel of what the
salamander is like. (Which may be expressed by the GM to the player in terms
of game statistics).
Anyway, the control-spell descriptions say that mental images are used to
"command" the target; and the summoning rules say that control spells can be
used to interrogate spirits: Hence I deduce that spirits can effectively
be interrogated using mental images...
> As for random generation tables: don't you know who and what every spirit
> in your world is?
'course I do. :-)
The point I was making is: if you say bound spirits speak different
languages then you are also implying that summoned spirits will speak
different languages. Summoned spirits are randomly determined (unless a
truename is used) so any poor sap who has the guts to cast a Summon(X) spell
would, more often than not, end up with a creature he couldn't "talk" to.
Now, there are ways around this (maybe spirits can speak *all* languages;
or maybe only spirits which understand your language will respond to the
summons) but I think its simpler just to assume that language isn't a
factor in the summons/binding process. The communication required is at
a sub-linguistic level.
Of course, intelligent spirits might be able to use language; and if you can
speak the same language you can have high-falutin' discussions with them.
But I don't think language is required to get a bound spirit to perform
the basic functions which binding-enchantments/control-spells allow.
> >Control-type spells allow you to get such information (see
> >Summoning rules) and my assumption is that a bound spirit is,
> >while bound, effectively Controlled in the same way.
> ^^^^^ ^^^^^ [ my emphasis - CW]
> This is directly contrary to the rules, which note a rather large
> difference between bound+controlled spirits and merely bound
> spirits (you can make the former come back).
That's why I said "while bound". You can make a bound spirit do as much as
you like without needing a control spell as long as you don't release it
from the binding. The way I read it, a control spell is only required if
you want to release a spirit, get it to perform an act, and then command it
back into the binding. I don't think you need to release a bound spirit in
order to interrogate it; therefore I don't think you need a control spell.
>A commanded spirit
> answers one question per casting of the spell (MB, page 54).
Yes, this is clearly the case for summoned creatures which have not been
bound. It is not clear (to me) whether a control spell is required to
question a bound spirit. I admit that my assumption that Binding gives
as much control as a control-spell (while the creature remains bound) is
speculative.
___
CW.
---------------------
From: lo...@hops.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller)
Subject: Pelandan culture dead ? Not in my book
Message-ID: <9409121436.AA06741@Sun.COM>
Date: 12 Sep 94 06:37:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6170
al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson) replies to Joerg replying to him:
> > > Pelandan culture is pretty much extinct, so the Dara Happan version is
> > > the Official Line. (I think Greg (and Nick) only mentioned the Pelandan
> > > "dating" when we squeezed it out of him afterwards.)
>
> > Dara Happan culture has been thoroughly Lunarized, so what the Emperor
> > says is true (not only just).
>
> Begging the question. The Pelandans had already gone by the time the Lunars
> got there, so they hardly get to pick and choose between the versions on an
> equal basis.
Ahem. The Pelandans are not gone. They are still around, serving as a
peasant underclass in Carmania proper. Most of their old secret powers
may be gone, and if they ever held the secrets of writing their own
characters they have lost them by now, but there are plenty of
ethnically pure Pelandans running around in Bindle and Worion and
Jhor, even in Spol. Too many, if you ask the Carmanian overlords (who
by now are quite a bit more Pelandan in blood and culture than they
are Loskalmi, but don't tell them I said so or they'd be on me faster
than you could shout "Look out behind ecch!"). There's even still a
grain goddess or whatever called Pela and I bet that her cult holds
some secrets from the old days if you care to ferret them out. I
already looked, so don't expect to find any rich treasures in her old
temples.
Adrad Vilalhri
Tax Adjustor at Large in the Western Reaches
--
Loren Miller <lo...@hops.wharton.upenn.edu>
I can tell by your shoes that you are a lover of liberty
---------------------
From: ROBE...@delphi.intel.com (Roderick Robertson)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 11 Sep 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <A0F41DD7...@delphi.intel.com>
Date: 12 Sep 94 16:30:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6171
Martin writes about Gloranthan Greetings:
(Much good stuff deleted)
Just to drum up "contestants" for RQCON II, there will be a
"Gloranthan Introductions" event, probably in conjunction with the
Gloranthan Costumery. The idea is to introduce someone in the manner
of the Gloranthan Culture of your choice. So a Lunar Bureaucrat's
greeting might be something along the lines of: "Minister of
Enlightenment Jerdacious, may I present the third under-secretary to
the Minister of Religious Purity, Loquacious Silbericus."
Such introductions should be less than a minute in length. At this
point, I plan to pair up an introducer and a costumer, unless one
person wants to do his own intro. Some comments about the origin of
the costume (in character, of course) are appropriate.
>The goodbye of the Praxians is "Waha be with you." It is NOT
>"Happy trails to you, until we meet again. Happy trails to you,
>keep smiling until then."
Of course not, that is the Pentan goodbye!
Hope you enjoy this, and will help me flesh it out.
--Martin
---------------------
From: Da...@snail.demon.co.uk (David Scott)
Subject: Gloranthan Mythology
Message-ID: <aa9a0832000150028686@[158.152.16.30]>
Date: 12 Sep 94 17:17:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6172
A few days late I know - Peter Metcalfe replies to David Hall:
>>How can any of this waffle help me GM or play the damn game?
>
>It's just one aspect of the Gloranthan hobby. If Greg didn't want the meanings
>of the GRAY and other misleading texts to be debated over by Pedants then he
>would have made the facts clear...
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. Perhaps GRAY was just meant to be some game background or
my personal theory is that Greg is out there reading all of this nonsense
and laughing - what a great joke. I don't think that any of GRAY would
really matter in a game - anybody out there running a game set in Dara
Happa at the time of GRAY? Is the Glorantha Hobby really now extending into
the realms of meaningless waffle, does the GRAY debate contribute anything
to Roleplaying, or do refs run games based around groups of Godlearners
exploring the cosmos?
>>Whether this is true or not doesn't really
>>matter: what matters is what they believe.
>
>So if I believe that Yelmalio didn't really loses his fire powers at the hills
>of Gold, I can use Fireblade? To me this is simplistic.
If any of my players said the above, they'd definately be labled as
dangerous heretic. I may be wrong but arn't most religons about belief. As
part of their initiation, I'm sure most worshoppers would directly
experience the suffering that Yelmalio felt on the Hill of Gold. Just
because you can say I don't believe it, most wouldn't as they KNOW and FELT
what really happened. Using fireblade doesn't even come into it - it would
be considered sacrilige to even think about using it (unless you enjoy
minimaxing).
For the last few months, I have been skipping through most of the digest,
for some reason the content has been becoming more waffly (?). Perhaps it's
time to give the digest some direction, like a monthly or biweekly theme to
explore some aspects of RQ/Glorantha and then onto something new. Further
discussions could be taken offline and then compiled for a monthy digest.
I'm not suggesting a decrease in volume, only an increase in quality.
Let the flaming begin!!
David
---------------------
From: jonas....@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: This and That and Truestone
Message-ID: <940912163...@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 12 Sep 94 20:36:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6173
Me and Alex:
>> But as I also mentioned in an earlier posting, Sandy has
>> stated for the record (or at least for the daily) that the assigning of
>> Infinity versus doubled runes is _not_ done in any orderly fashion.
>
>I missed both of you saying this. I thought Sandy cleaved to the Original
>Source/Non-Original Source distinction?
Well, he did and he didn't. I think I can dig up his original text for you
from my hard disk.
Someone:
>I have a question about Blank Truestone.
>
>A priest who cast all his rune spells into the trunestone
>(A) cannot regain them and he must resacrifice to the spell.
> or
>(B) can regain them when he pray in his temple as usual.
>
>which is true?
(B). Putting spells into a truestone counts as a normal casting. Come to
think of it, you should probably be able to recharge it that way too, as an
alternative to the tedious "leave it on the altar for (used spell points)
days" procedure.
Just me, wondering aloud:
A while ago, Henk wondered if anyone had any submissions for the Digest.
Well, I sent one in a while ago, but neither that nor any of my other
attempts to reach him (via various e-mail addresses) have elicited any sort
of response. Hopefully he'll read this, anyway.
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
---------------------
From: DCOW...@UTMEM1.UTMEM.EDU
Subject: Sartar stuff
Message-ID: <01HH0YHNG...@UTMEM1.UTMEM.EDU>
Date: 12 Sep 94 07:26:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6174
Ok, I wrote a somewhat typical broo hunt awhile back, and had it
placed(starting) just north of Jonstown. How often do broo get to within half
to one and a half days of Jonstown?
What are the local Storm Bull Forces like, if any?
What kind of Chalana Arroy and Humakt temples are in Jonstown, and who are the
personalities associated with them?
On another note, are there any files out there about the six Stones and
Alebard's heroquests?
Thanks,
David Cowling
dcow...@utmem1.utmem.edu
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: Greetings and Sayings
Message-ID: <940912191...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 12 Sep 94 19:19:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6176
Paul Reilly here. Martin Crim/Argrath)* writes about greetings in various
cultures. This inspires me to write down some of what we use.
Carmanian knights (Hazari) use a greeting that I translate as "Well met"
when dealing with each other or people they perceive to be of like class
(respected Heortlander knights on the field of battle, e.g.)
Carmanian nobles often address each other as "cousin" if there is any chance
that they are distantly related. A term of respect, implying that the person
they address is also to be counted among the elite. If one noble is clearly
of higher status, that one must use this familiar form of address first, before
the one of lower status may.
All four Carmanian classes (not counting the "conquered" class) normally
address people in their household using titles rather than proper names.
For example, Husband, Wife, Son, Nurse, Cook, Teacher, etc.
The form of address may vary, for example a woman approaching her husband
about the household finances will address him as "Husband", but if talking to
him about arranging fosterage for a child, may call him "Poppa" or
equivalent. Friends use nicknames with each other, quite often.
Major exceptions: Formal and religious occasions use the real names.
Parents summoning their children may use the real name. At moments of
intimacy, lovers, spouses, or very close friends may use the real name.
Also, people who spend a lot of time with non-Carmanians may fall into real
name use.
Insults: Carmanians enjoy mocking-through-imitation, think this is
very funny. Dara Happans are scandalized by this sort of thing, leading
to friction between the two richest Lunar subcultures.
DARA HAPPA
Dara Happan nobles:
Don't address menial servants - the servant is supposed to know his job and
do it, silently. If communication is absolutlely necessary, statements are
typically made to the open air, in a tense equivalent to English passive
voice: "My shoes need polishing," etc.
Will address each other, often with a title but sometimes with a name.
Depends on social setting... for example Daravayush, a noble of Darjiin,
may be addressed by his title of "Egret-Marshall" by his social equals
if they are seeing him on a tax matter, or as Daravayush at a religious
festival.
Underlings address people one or two rungs up from them by full title and
name, unless invited to shorten these sounds of respect. Body posturings
along with this may go from the "Dara Happan Bow*" to a full prostration,
depending on the social gulf...
Underlings further down the ladder do not address high-class people directly,
but instead direct their discourse to one of the High One's underlings, or
even a piece of furniture or the floor.
All classes:
Husbands and wives address each other as "brother" and "sister", often with
an endearment such as "beloved". Can be quite confusing to outsiders, actually.
Originally a noble custom (it is thought), but now trickled down to the
masses by the process of people aping their betters.
Thieves use animal aliases, especially nightbirds.
LUNAR:
More on this later, perhaps. For now, let me mention an expression of
great surprise, common to Lunar Army veterans and people who have picked
it up from them:
"Well, paint me blue and call me an Orlanthi!"
ORLANTHI:
Agree pretty much with Martin. "Free blows the wind," perhaps?
Differences in our campaigns may be attributable to local variation.
>Well, I'm not going to ring the changes. Anyone else have some
>ideas, especially on challenges and other unfriendly greetings?
Mocking insults, perhaps poetical in nature, leading up to challenges.
Mock-praise: "It is said that Annstad is so brave that he almost faced
up to the vicious Chicken of Bagnot."
Uz:
Mostly agree with Martin.
Note that certain classes of Uz may not speak directly to enlo (a bit like
Dara Happa, actually...)
A Death Lord may deliberately train his enlo to be uppity (to OTHER uz!)
in order to provoke them into a fatal challenge. Note that this would be
to provoke males, never females.
I have Uz refer to their clan elders as "The Mothers". With a change
in tone of voice, this also refers to the mighty Mistress Race of their
tribe.
I have enlo giving the tug without the whine, usually.
"Eat this instead of me" is a very important concept, which gets sublimated
in several ways.
Territory is important - more on this another time, must go soon. Suffice
it to say that even a lowly trollkin may have a particular hole in the ground
that he will defend, be it ever so miserable. Concept here is of protective
darkness. Uz who do not need a physical or psychological refuge are considered
brave or even aberrant.
--------------
Oasis people:
Offering water or food or salt is used as a friendly greeting.
"Tada blesses" or "Tada bless you" (verbs conjugate differently, had to
translate exactly.) is used as a farewell. This latter has caught on
among the Lunar occupiers, and is spreading among fashionable Lunar society,
who usually shorten it to just "Ta".
If an Oasis person accomplishes a particular noteworthy feat (a rarity
nowadays) he calls on Tada to witness it, using a musical intonation of the
God's name: "Ta-daa!"
* Someone has to write a story where one of the Argraths, say Argrath of Pavis,
uses an alias like "Marten the Grim...
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Introducing new folks
Message-ID: <940912203...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 12 Sep 94 10:35:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6177
Okay, I'm going to jump the gun, presuming that Mark ever meant to tell
anyone about it, but one of the two RQ campaigns in Ithaca, NY, has
re-started, and in a way that is excellent for introducing new people to
Glorantha:
The PCs all begin as children. Every session introduces the players to
some new, central aspect of Glorantha (or I think it is supposed to), and
then 2-5 seasons pass between sessions until the youngest PC is around 16 or
18 or so.
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Vinga's spells
Message-ID: <940912204...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 12 Sep 94 10:45:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6178
Okay, so Elmal might not give a Sunspear, then how about the Fireblade spirit
spell?
As for "Remove Penis"--that's a typical Eurmal gift. Who is to say that
all gifts from associate cults have to be "useful" in a gaming context?
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Shucks.
Message-ID: <940912210...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 12 Sep 94 11:00:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6179
>I am no expert on the Orlanth pantheon or Sartar culture (at elast in
>comparison with others on this list!), but I thought your Vinga write-up was
>great! Many very nice touches. No criticisms, constructive or otherwise,
>but thanks for posting it. I plan to use it, if my campaign even gets to
>Sartar!
Well, that's nice of you.
Anyway, If you have Elmal not have Sunspear to begin with, I suggest that
you have Elmal give Vinga flameblade instead.
Also, the Catseye from Yelmalio is justified by Vingans as a grudging gift,
for which they must pay double. Yelmalions who have a cult lore of less than
90% probably don't believe that Vingans really get the spell. Those with a
cult lore of greater than 90% learn a shameful secret of the cult: Yelmalio
does have some sort of relationship with Vinga.
The nature of the relationship is somewhat shameful--Yelmalio, after all,
did succumb to Vinga's evil, wanton wiles on the Hill of Gold. He was
weak from his injuries, and a lovely woman ministered to his wounds.
Before he knew what had happened, she had had her way with him and run off
with one of his golden catseye stones. Such is the sinfulness and wanton
lewdness of all Vingan women, such is the lewdness of all improper females.
However, Yelmalio did catch up with her later, where she begged him for
mercy, like the weak woman she was. His pride demanded vengeance, but his
shining justice permitted him to dispense mercy. Vinga could keep her
stolen good, but she would have to promise to perform an important and
dangerous task for Yelmalio. Until she did this task, she could never know
peace from the ill-gotten fire that lived in her loins. It would forever
torment her. Then Yelmalio released her.
He has still yet to call upon her, so her loins burn, as do the sinful loins
of all her women. But she owes Yelmalio--and big-time.
---------------------
From: 10027...@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Q&A
Message-ID: <940912210826_100...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 12 Sep 94 21:08:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6180
_____
Kuri:
In my games, a priest who cast all his rune spells into a Truestone would
only be able to regain the use of each spell when the spell had been cast
from the Truestone. This is how it happened to Biturian Varosh, it seems.
So if a Healer cast her Resurrection spell into a Truestone, she would be
unable to regain the use of that Resurrect until the holder of the 'stone
used it. She could sacrifice for more uses of the spell, regain them, etc.
But regaining the stored one is literally "out of her hands", as long as it
remains tied up in the Stone.
If using RunePower, I think the precise spell effect stored would have to
be specified at the point of casting; the number of points tied up would be
lost to the priest until they were cast from the Truestone.
________
Peter M:
> What I was suggesting was the case with Antirius/Yelmalio/Elmal! You
> must remember that in many cases the RW cults often gained local color
> but had some identifiable source (ie the cult of Odin/Wotan etc).
Yeah. But your Antirius/Elmal comparison is closer to Wotan/Mercury than
Zeus/Jupiter, IMHO. Neither gains much, bar unnecessary confusion.
> Blue elves are shown on the Jolar map in ToTRM #11 p13 as being around
> in the Nargan. I'm fairly sure that these are not your average blue
> elfs and that MOB did not put them 'Sumware Orothere' as a joke. They
> seem to be related to the Artmali Empire. Can anybody tell me anything
> more?
It's a typo. We had a map from Greg that had a scribble which might have
read either 'blues' or 'elves' down in that corner; MOB opted for both. I
think 'blues' is the correct interpretation. Meaning, "Here Be The Veldang
Blue-Skinned Artmali Folk From Zamokil".
IMHO, Yelmalions who wanted to *win* at the Hill of Gold would be like
Christians who thought the Crucifixion was a bad thing, and HeroQuested/
time travelled back to Judaea with a ladder and a claw-hammer to stop it
from happening. The apparent 'wounding' and 'defeat' of Yelmalio are the
core facets of his religion, and not seen as irritating and/or embarrassing
failures by his followers. They don't think there's anything that needs to
be put right: Yelmalio showed the faithful what he was made of by surviving
the worst that the Long Night could throw at him. "Don't give up"; "Never
say die"; "Stiff upper lip, chaps"; "It's always darkest before the dawn",
"It's only a flesh wound, I've had worse". Their whole ideology (Spartan
Phalangites / Victorian Public School Heroes) is based on this: survival in
the face of adversity, "hanging in there" no matter how bad it gets. Ideal
for a Hoplite society. To supplant that, you'd have to reject and remodel
your culture's values. Ask MOB what the penalty for that kind of seditious
heresy would be in Sun County.
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: carl...@wdni.com (Carlson, Pam)
Subject: Sun Dome & Basmoli Father's Tales
Message-ID: <2E74...@emssmtp.msm.weyer.com>
Date: 12 Sep 94 22:06:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6181
Peter - have faith!
There are more of us who would like to see your WMFTM for Sun County - we
just can't always reply quickly. Count me in.
I agree with you about the fleetingness of other publications. Our little
RQ group here was once captured, tied up, and forced to play Shadowrun for
five tortuous sessions. Living in Seattle, we thought, "Oh, well, at least
we won't have to memorize a new map!" It was little consolation. (OK -
apologies in advance to any SR fans out there...)
Some other games seem to promote glossy artwork more than believable,
coherent worlds. Now we are playing in an occasional Earthdawn game - it
runs much better than SR, but the world still seems superficial. The same
RQ players who forstall their own training and money-making endeavors to
help their neighbors in the Risklands have, in Earthdawn, been reduced to
phrases like "Hey - let's kill the villagers, too! More Legend Points!"
I think one of the problems is that it takes more time to produce and write
for a coherent world than to whip up some new color glossies and inventive
ways to roll lots of dice.
We're getting our revenge, though. Mr. Shadowrun ref is now a Waha initiate
who has to figure out how to convince a band of Basmoli bachlors to give him
the white buffalo calf instead of eating it. And based on that information
on Basmoli attitudes that folks have sent me, it's not going to be easy...
(maniacal laugh). I'll have to be nice, though. We seem to be getting a
spate of newbies up here - three last month, and two more this month!
Brian - I liked your Basmoli song, but it was so depressing that it nearly
ruined my whole day!
Pam
<^==@
/\ /\
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: 2nd post sans GRAY...
Message-ID: <01HH2AUEZ...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 14 Sep 94 00:31:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6183
Peter...Metcalfe?...Harald Smith?..WHITELAW!
--------------------------------------------
Will be interested in seeing the WMFTM. I add my voice to it being in the
daily.
Nick Brooke:
------------
AF>>> Couldn't disagree more. The rituals, for most purposes, _are_ the
AF>>> religion, not a PR bolt-on.
PM>> Hmm, we'll have a lot harder time trying to get regional variation
PM>> that way.
NB> I don't follow this at all. In the same post you've postulated three local
NB> traditions, involving dancing, bull-sacrifice and meditation, to obtain the
NB> same spell-effect (I presume). Looks like instant regional variation to me.
um, I was disagreeing with Alex's statement that the rituals are the religion,
and felt that this precluded the regional variation that exists. This smacked
too much to me of a canonical mass (which may be appropiate for Dara Happa but
certainly not for most gloranthan cultures). I think that the rituals really
are only a magical means of communicating with the divinity and that some
social concerns are addressed in the ritual by the presiding priest. (ie a
wind voice amplifys the fight against chaos in Orlanthi rituals because the Red
Moon is oppressing his folk).
Will look at the sources. I only have seen the illustrated version of Frazer
and according to Sandy et al. that's nothing compared to the original.
--Peter Metcalfe.
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Trade; Babeester Gor; Humakt
Message-ID: <1994091304...@radiomail.net>
Date: 13 Sep 94 04:23:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6184
Whew, just caught up after 12 days on the road (much of it in Prax, er,
Wyoming).
Gerald Bosch said all sorts of good things about trade. In the Americas,
one of the most widespread trade networks was of obsidian. Shells were also
traded over great distances, as were (if memory serves) feathers. At one
time, cocoa beans were used like money.
In my Ralios, the primary trade gods are Doskior (much trade is by canoe or
raft) and Argan Argar. Since the tribes of East Ralios are so
self-sufficient, Issaries never took on a trading aspect, and remains the
Talking God.
And no discussion of trade would be complete without mentioning the Amber
Route, just because I like the sound of it.
David Cowling asks
>Are there Babeester Gor in Prax?
I play that there are a few, stationed at the Earth temple complex at the Paps.
Nick Brooke explains the ritual death of a Sword of Humakt. Thanks! For
some reason I thought you folks played that a mere initiate had to sever
his kin ties, which seemed extreme. At the rune level, it makes more sense
to me. (And it doesn't happen at all in Ralios, where Humakt is an
associate of Orlanth...)
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: jo...@hyphen.com (Jon Green)
Subject: A big black stick stack?
Message-ID: <1309.94...@diss.hyphen.com>
Date: 12 Sep 94 11:31:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6167
Bob Luckin in X-RQ-ID: 6120:
> Hopefully the others you left at home include Donaldar - a god well-known
> for his singing voice, and Squawk Mother - daughter of Vrimquack who
> taught Yelmalio how to Speak to Ducks (that one's for you, Jon !).
:-) I'm half-inclined to include it! But first Yelmalio had to be bested
by Zorquack Zoran...
And someone (I think it was me:-) posted some notes on the way he thought
foci and matrices operated, and how they were attuned. I forgot another
peril of attunement - sometimes you can get just a little too close to the
person who made all those items... Read, enjoy (if you like) and feel free
to comment!
--- CUT HERE ---
The Story of Stax, a Stick-picker
=================================
Stax was a stickpicker, from a long and proud line of stickpickers, and
the greatest of his clan, which was not to say very much. He
considered himself a great thinker, which, amongst his family, he
probably was.
One day, out picking sticks, he came across a horde of strange items,
we know not how. There were sticks, yes, but sticks with weird
squiggles and pictures, and stones with drawings, and jewels with
uncanny glows, and many more things. Stax considered for a while, and
decided that they were probably magical, since anything he did not
understand was magical, and he did not understand them. As it happens,
his guess was more apt than he could possibly have hoped.
As a generous and considerate stickpicker, Stax could have taken his
haul home with him, to show his hearthmate. But Stax was neither, and
he hid his booty where he found it, taking only a well-inscribed stone
with him.
Stax knew little of magic artifacts, and his attempts to understand the
stone were of little avail, at the start. He learnt that, if he stared
at the sigils for a long time, he could start to see more of them at a
time. He called it his "concentration stone", and would spend hours at
a time in the corner of a field, gazing at the rock and neglecting his
stick-picking.
It is little surprising that Stax took so much time to understand his
beloved stone. The stash was that of a fearfully powerful magician,
Chalaranth, centuries before, who had secreted it for a time of need.
His time of need overtook him faster than he had anticipated, and he
never returned to reclaim it. Stax was a creature of little wit and
less wisdom, and to comprehend Chalaranth's least item he had to
encompass the magician's thought and his soul with his own.
But Stax had only to understand a little of the wizard's mind, and
commune with but a small portion of his soul, and the task was not
impossible, even for Stax. It took almost half a season, but
eventually Stax could see all of the runes at the same time, in focus,
and it was as if a great cloth had fallen from his eyes. He extended
his soul into the stone and pushed - and the stone gave. He did not
understand what had happened, but he ran home to his hearth-mate to
show her.
"At last you return - and what do you bring me? Some roots, maybe? A
nice juicy grub or two? No, you bring me a worthless pebble, to rattle
in the pot!"
Stax was abashed. "But look what I can do with it!" he howled and,
with a flourish, pushed his soul into it once more (not knowing what to
expect), and found himself pushing into the soul of his wife!
"Eaarrggh!"
She spun, as if a puppet-master turned her strings, and began aping
every movement Stax made! Stax was most taken aback, but soon fell to
enjoying his revenge upon his wife's nagging. "Now let that be a
lesson to you," he chided her, "never anger a great wizard!"
Stax' next task was to discover the secrets of a white rod, covered
with blue symbols. He now understood something of the thought of its
maker, and in only a couple of weeks he had mastered more and different
magics than he could possibly have known in his lifetime. As he found
the last spell in the wand, the name of its maker became clear.
"Chalaranth? Strange name." He filed it in his memory for later use.
During his secretive investigations, his wife and family noticed a
change in Stax. His speech, once simple, became more fluent; his
language more complex. A new light shone in his eyes, and he
discovered a confidence previously unknown to any of his kin. Once, an
old enemy visited, intending to cause trouble. He did not stay for
long. Injured and humiliated, with his rear showing through the
scorched remains of his smock, the foe retreated rather more quickly
than he had arrived.
"Bow and fear me," Stax crowed after him, "for I am Magick!"
For the next season, Stax worked through the rest of his treasure,
become better and quicker with every attempt to use a new toy. His
manners changed, became more courtly; and slowly his kith and kin began
to believe Stax' boasts as he demonstrated better and greater magicks
with each day.
At the last, Stax was heard to cry, "I am Chalaranth! Fight me if you
dare: fear me as you must!" Stax' soul was irretrievably entwined
with the great Chalaranth's, and the powerful, dead magician's mind had
overcome the meagre senses of the humble stick-picker's.
For another season, and through the Sacred Time, Stax/Chalaranth
performed his marvels and achieved some small notoriety in his area.
The peasants would come to him for healing, repair of their meagre
possessions or even just for his blessing, and he would exact payment
or tribute. His soul swelled.
But such a figure is not ignored for long, and strong powers grow to
challenge great souls. One day, early in Sea Season, a strange,
whirling blur, like a dust-storm without dust, was seem to approach
Chalaranth/Stax's dwelling. Before anyone could react, it surrounded
him.
"I am Djilliq," cried the great spirit, whose form only the
self-acclaimed wizard could perceive, "and who are you?"
"I am Chalaranth! I am a great and powerful magician!" replied Stax.
"Then I shall defeat you again, as once I did before!" howled the
apparition, and set to the attack.
Stax tried all of the magicks he knew to defend himself, but in truth
he understood few of the spells he had learnt to cast, and had never
discoverd the true purpose of many of them. The spells he knew had no
effect, and, had he but known, many of those he did not would have
aided. He was not given the time to try them.
The djinn had no trouble in mastering the hapless Stax, and wore his
skin for many years. Djilliq had the knowledge to comprehend the
magicks Stax had discovered, and the means to extract their uses from
the shrunken soul of Stax, now hidden, whimpering, in some small corner
of his own mind. When the spirit finally left to find a less confining
space, what remained of Stax' mind was deranged, and he died soon
after, a degenerate and gibbering wreck.
Stax had discovered wit but, without both wisdom and knowledge to
clothe it, intellect is naked and defenseless. Had he wisdom, Stax
would have seen the change within himself and curtailed his greed for
power and prestige. Had he knowledge, he could have used his findings
to protect himself when his nemesis came, for that was ever their
intent. But Stax was a stick-picker, from a long and proud line of
stick-pickers, and, as Orlanth's children say, "Stick-picker does as
stick-picker is."
--- CUT HERE ---
Some notes:
(1) Stax is a bear of very little brain, trying to comprehend a
giant of intellect. It takes much longer for him to attune Chalaranth's
magical devices than it would normally take an average person to tune
an average item. This raises the interesting prospect a magic item
having a kind of inherent INT, and the attuner having to overcome the
item's INT with his/her own;
(2) Stax finds each successive attunement more easy. Each time he
succeeds, he learns a little more of the style of thought of its maker,
and can interpret the mandalas (what IS the plural of mandala?) more
easily. An incremental bonus for objects made by that person?;
(3) As Stax' few wits try to fall in tune with Chalaranth's, he gains
INT, a kind of INT training. As the story says, though, he doesn't know
how to use it, or, indeed very much else;
(4) Stax's POW increases during the time. Perhaps it's through using
the spells successfully, maybe bits of Chalaranth's POW are rubbing off
on him, or just possibly he's found access to stored POW as well;
(5) No, I don't know how he discovered Chalaranth's name! But it
sounded good...
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 10 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <940912205...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 12 Sep 94 08:57:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6175
Simon Hibbs
>We must remember that the monomyth failed, it was an unmitigated
>disaster.
Not so. The monomyth was the closest approach to Gloranthan
reality that had ever been accomplished. Admittedly it was wrong in
many fundamental details. Newtonian physics was a huge advance on
what went before, and is still a useful way to describe the world.
But it is wrong in fundamental ways. When the God Learners got too
close to the _real_ reality in Glorantha, it stepped up and bit them.
Alex doesn't think that Pamaltela is _really_ more fertile than
Genertela.
>I don't think this makes much sense. If Pamaltela had twice the
>population of Genertela, rather than half, this might be marginally
>more convincing.
More Fertile doesn't mean More People, Alex. The Most Fertile
places on the face of the earth (measured by biologic productivity)
are swamps and jungles. Pamaltela has plenty of swamps and jungles.
But these aren't environments in which large numbers of humans
thrive.
The strongest evidence for Pamaltela's fertility is not only
the swamps & jungles, but the interior plains of Jolar, Kothar, etc.,
In any rational land, such interior areas, cut off from the sea by
mountains, flat, and with few rivers (and those that exist draining
into a dry dead sea) would be a horrifying desert, as bad as the
Sahara or the Empty Quarter of Arabia.
It's not -- in fact, it supports a reasonably prosperous
group of nomads. The only possible reason is because Pamalt's
influence POWERFULLY mitigates the disaster.
Finally, one of the major population sources of Genertela is
Kralorela, which IMO does not suffer much from Genert's death,
because he has been replaced by the Emperor, who now holds
responsibility for all such matters.
David Cowling:
>typically, a shadow of Humakt is faced as the PC "overcomes death"
>to enter and return from the God Plane. If this is true, and
>coupled with the fact that when Humakti are dead, they are DEAD, do
>Humakti HeroQuest? If so, is it a shadow of Humakt that they face?
To enter the Heroquest, you must either vanquish death by
defeating the Humakti warrior as you enter the Hero Plane, or else
one of the party must die (but only one), thus paying the price. Yes,
Humakti heroquest. The dude facing you when you try to enter the
Heroplane is probably a heroquester Humakti, for instance. (Well, not
a fancy quester, but at least some Sword doing one of his cult
responsibilities.) And yes, a Humakti entering the heroplane must
vanquish death (i.e., another Humakti) to enter.
Allyr
>Praxian carnivores, no one seems to have mentioned dinosaurs
I thought I had. I said that IMO Dinosaurs in Prax were
visitors (possibly permanent ones) from Balazar or the Rockwoods.
There are probably some permanent dinosaur residents in the River of
Cradles, and maybe some huge amphibians in the coastal swamps, but I
don't think you'll find deinonychi breeding or thriving in the Wastes
proper.
Pam Carlson:
>Well, EXCUSE ME for using the words "Trickster" and "respect" in the
>same sentence.
You are forgiven.
>But isn't Trickster *occasionally* appreciated? Hyena ate Genert to
>keep him safe from chaos, Eurmal helps Orlanth occasionally, and in
>Native American stories, Coyote is known for being rather clever.
Yes, but what Native American would want Coyote for his
brother-in-law? Or even hanging around his house.
I think that Praxians, like Orlanthi, regard Trickster and
his deeds as absolutely essential to the nature of the cosmos. Death
is essential, too. I'm sure that when they tell tales of the
Trickster they laugh and are appreciative. And when a Trickster comes
into the camp, they beat him, abuse him, and scream, "Not with MY
daughter, you don't!" With luck, they'll drive him away, and to some
other tribe.
After all, it's not like Trickster is an endangered species.
> I favor Hyena as the Praxian trickster, because Coyote is too
>similar to the Real World
I kind of think of Raven as the real trickster of Prax. Hyena
I see as one of his friends. Sometimes victorious, sometimes tricked
or killed, but in many stories with Raven. Coyote may or may not be a
trickster, but their treacherous cowardly nature probably makes them
at least trickster-associated. Note that even if they aren't
tricksters at all this doesn't mean there aren't coyotes in Prax.
Stupendous Man:
>2) Having dealt with Viv, what about Cacodemon, he's got the
>Darkness Rune too, what about Ogre's, they can't see in the dark
>can they?
I don't think so. But they probably do a lot more night
fighting than most humans, setting ambushes and the like, so they may
not be quite so hosed at a fight in the dark as humans are.
>3) How about broo's, they're the ubiquitous chaos nasties, can they
>not see, or do they have improved night vision. I ask this because
>it's seems so much more atmospheric to fight broo at night, when
>they are only half seen.
Hmm. I almost always have my own broos attack on blistering
hot days, when the sun bakes the brains from the players' heads, and
there is no wind anywhere, and the air smells stale, while the
horizon shimmers with blazing heat. I save night attacks for
morocanth and trolls.
BUT ... since you asked, I believe that most broos have
marginally better night vision than most humans (much as a sheep or
an antelope has somewhat better night vision, but is still diurnal).
On the other hand, lots of broos are probably colorblind, too.
Doubtless a broos' vision depends on what its mother was, averaged
out with what a broos "natural" sight is like.
In any case, there have GOT to be bands of broo brothers that
see really well at night (just because their mom was a jackrabbit, or
a cat, or some other night-dweller), and I'm sure these guys lead the
night attacks, or even band together into special bands that
specialize in darktime combat.
Kuri:
>A priest who cast all his rune spells into the trunestone
>(A) cannot regain them and he must resacrifice to the spell.
> or
>(B) can regain them when he pray in his temple as usual.
I have always played (A).
Bryan J. Maloney
>>You are different from the others, child, so I will tell you a tale
>>that the others don't get.
This was a stupendous story/poem/song of the Basmoli. You are
my hero.
Nick Brooke:
> I'd rather waive the "obligatory die rolls" while fudging the
>numbers of 90%+ skills required. Becoming an initiate, Rune Lord,
>sacred milkman, or bartender at Gimpy's is a Major >Campaign Event,
>not something to brush off as a wee mechanical hiatus.
The main purpose of the 90% skills and die rolls, I believe,
is to give the GM an idea of how hard it's supposed to be to become
one of these dudes, and hence of how rare they are, how impressed
other folks are of them, etc.
I have no objection of blowing off all the mechanistic
details of Rune Lord-dom, if the GM is able and ready to do so. All I
ask is that Rune Lords be recognized as Real Tough Guys, and masters
of their trade. I also picture the majority of these guys not as
folks who've won every game they've been in, but long-term hardened
troopers who've seen the good and the bad. Not Keanu Reeves, or a
nine-day-wonder, but Henry Fonda, proven through thick and thin.
The 90% skills are handy, though, in giving the players
something to work towards. "Goal-setters", as it were.
Peter:
>I'd love to figure out Teleos except I know so little about it.
You know as much as anyone, if you've read Gloranthan history
and the Seas of Glorantha stuff. Basically:
1) it's shaped like Pac-Man.
2) before the Closing, bad pirates & a whole pirate kingdom
were centered here.
3) after the Opening, 6 groups of multi-colored folks live
here who hate one another, but give birth to each other's children.
Were the pirates of old-time Teleos multi-colored? Unknown. In one
conversation with Greg, he thought they "probably" were, for what
that's worth.
4) it's jungly and reasonably tropical, due to the ocean
currents.
5) there's dragonewts.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: 10010...@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: What My father Told Me - Sun County
Message-ID: <940912230742_100...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 12 Sep 94 23:07:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6182
Hi all,
OK, We reached three votes since my last message.
So, for those who asked for it and for those who didn't...
What My Rather Told Me - A Personal View Of Sun County Life
=====================================================
Who Are You?
I am Oralion of Chomoro, son of Boragenes. Greetings, and may Mighty Yelm bless
you.
Who Are We?
We are Sun County folk and loyal servants of our Count, Solanthos Ironpike. We
revere Mighty Yelm and worship His Son, Yelmalio. We are a proud and strong
people, tilling the fertile flood-plains of our homeland with the honest toil
and steadfast beliefs that befits a heritage so noble as our own.
What Makes Us Great?
That after the Peaceful Era, a Golden Age when the bounty of this land was as
great as the glory of Yelm, we endured and survived the Solitude of Testing with
grace and nobility. When we were beset by enemies at every quarter we did not
fail but grew in strength from the faith that we have in Yelmalio. This makes
us the envy of those who look upon all that we have achieved and who, with
covetous glances seek to steal from us that which they are too weak to provide
for themselves.
Where Do We Live?
We live in Chomoro, second largest town in Sun County after the Sun Dome temple
itself. Our town is nestled at the confluence of the Bitter Stream and the Zola
Fel, on the western flood plain. The fields around Chomoro are laced with the
irrigation canals that the first Count, Arinsor Clearmind, showed us how to make
when he joined with the Zola Fel's daughter in re-enacting the union of Yelm
with the Oslir, a great river far to the north-west in a land called Peloria,
the home of Yelm.
Chomoro is the bastion of Sun County against the incursions and depredations of
nomads and other pagan people from the south. Recently, Lunars from Peloria
have settled there and, despite their strange customs, some of them revere Yelm
as we do.
To the west are the cliffs that separate us from the high chaparral of Prax
where nomads roam. They often bicker and fight amongst themselves and, when
they tire of this, they steal from us and drive their herds through our
barleyfields.
Beyond Sun County to the north is Pavis County. The people there are farmers
like ourselves but they are of Sartarite stock. Sartarites worship the
rebellious Gods who attacked Yelm and brought about the end to the Golden Age;
they are not a trustworthy lot.
How Do We Live?
We farm the flood plains and terraces of the Zola Fel valley. We irrigate these
in the fashion taught us by Arinsor Clearmind, as I told you before. Our staple
is Barley and Yelmalio's wife, Ernalda, blesses our land that our harvest may be
bountiful. We have many talents though, and we grow tomatoes, olives, grapes
and flax on the fields apportioned to us by lot each year. This is a true and
just custom. That our neighbours do not do likewise speaks of their lack of
virtue. Our fields are square in honour of the Earth rune held by Ernalda,
Yelamlio's wife.
Besides the crops that feed us we tend herds of sable and impala that provide us
with meat and milk, leather, wool and bone.
Come the harvest time we have produce aplenty to barter for fish, pottery and
bronze goods from the local fisherfolk and the artisans that live in Chomoro all
the time. Although they do not tend the Earth, we respect the contribution that
they make to our way of life.
Also at harvest time, old Istarchos the Grey comes round with his sons and
collects a portion of our crop as tithe to the Sun Dome temple that those who
have not been blessed as ourselves may be supported in time of need.
We clothe ourselves without fuss or unnecessary frippery and with practicality
in mind. Men and women wear tunics of linen or wool although modesty dictates
that the women, of course, carry their hem below the knee. In Fire season, when
Yelm is at his most magnificent, we wear just these tunics and leather sandals
upon our feet. When the storms come, however, we will often put on woollen
trousers which we tuck into long, laced leather overshoes that we wear over our
sandals and which come up to our calves. At such times we also don a woollen or
felt mantle over our tunics. When needs must we cover our heads with a
wide-brimmed felt hat. Our women are never without a light scarf with which to
veil their faces in the company of men
What Is Important In My Life?
When a young boy wins at the Bearding festival during Harvest time he has proven
himself a man and is blessed into the church of Yelmalio. At his first
communion as an adult there is a bond forged by Lodril between him and Yelmalio,
this can never be broken and when he opens his eyes he sees with the sight of a
man. He may grow a beard and take a wife that he may bless the community with
fine, strong sons to carry on our traditions and swell our number against those
who would do us down.
The first summer after his Bearding, a man enters service with the Sun Dome
Militia with whom he will be taught how to wield the spear of light and shield
of truth in defence of our lands and our folk. If a young man shows aptitude for
militia service then he may be called upon to join the ranks of the glorious Sun
Dome Templars - the fearless heroes who spend their lives in service to the
Temple, protecting us.
A man should hold dear all that Yelmalio has taught us to respect and revere
and, by so doing, emulate Him. He should be just and truthful in all his
dealings with others and conscious of the qualities that set us above others.
Who Rules Us?
We are ruled by Count Solanthos Ironpike, forty second in an unbroken line of
honoured Light Sons stretching back to Arinsor Clearmind who came from Dragon
Pass and liked to kill giants. Every person in Sun County can name the Counts
who have led us through good times and bad to become the people that we are
today. It is the Count who treats with outsiders on behalf of us all and who
administers justice in accordance with Yelmalio's law. The Count carries the
Globe of authority and Sceptre of Order as symbols of his station and his power.
What Makes A Man Great?
A Great Man is he who dedicates his life to the service of the Count and,
thereby, the people of Sun County that he rules and Yelmalio whom he represents.
There are many ways to achieve this end. Diligent and chaste service in the
ranks of the Sun Dome Templars, or ceaseless toil to draw fruits from the earth
and the siring of many strong sons and daughters to carry on his work.
He who seeks ever greater guidance from the temple in how to conduct himself in
the service of Yelmalio and who succeeds in doing so is a Great Man and one whom
we can be honoured to count amongst our number.
What Is The Difference Between Man and Woman?
Men are in the image of Yelm and women of Dendara, His wife. Dendara serves her
husband well, caring for the land and the home that her husband rules over.
Yelmalio is a leader, a soldier, strong and true; his wife Ernalda an Earth
mother. So it is with Man and Woman.
What is Evil?
There are many kinds of Evil and Chaos is the worst of them. When Orlanth and
his lackeys so cravenly assassinated Yelm and the Golden age was ended, Chaos
leaked into the world from without. Every manifestation of this running sore
must be hunted down and eliminated without question or quarter.
The truth of Yelmalio and of the Fiery Father himself is that we must adhere to
what is right in order to set for others a righteous example that acts as a
beacon to guide them from evil. The telling of untruths is evil and is not the
proper behaviour of a Yelmalion, by doing so one risks losing all that is
important in one's life and being cast out from the community.
The adoption of pagan or sorcerous customs and rites is evil for, again, to do
so leads one away from the true path. To act unjustly or without respect for
the wisdom and counsel of one's elders, to covet and to shirk one's duties; all
these things are evil.
What Is My Lot In Life?
It is your lot that you shall reap as you have sewn. As you have conducted
yourself in the service of the Count and of Yelmalio so you shall be rewarded in
life and beyond, when you travel to the Halls of Yelm in Hell. There you shall
find the opportunity to serve again and so you shall. As the quality of your
life improves so does the chance that you shall find eternal contentment in
Yelm's court.
So, you will ever strive to emulate those set above you and to bear the burdens
placed upon you with good grace and fortitude that you may, one day, have the
opportunity to set a noble example for the generations after you. Do these
things and you will receive land to work and the arms to defend it; you shall
receive succour in time of want and the support of the temple in time of danger.
Fail, and the we shall reject you as you have rejected us.
How Do We Deal With Others?
Respect and obey your father whose name you bear, he is a man long in the
service of Yelmalio and has many wise things to tell you. Similarly, you should
heed the advice of your elders; those such as Istarchos who leads us in prayer
each week at the temple.
Support your brothers and your peers, let them have no cause to doubt your
virtue. Cherish and protect your mother and your sisters, it is they who have
borne and will bear sons to the community and will tend the homes and bless the
fields of decent folk.
Be a lord to your children that they may know right from wrong and grow up
emulating Yelmalio as you have done.
When dealing with foreigners know that they cannot aspire to the qualities that
we possess and that they are the lesser for it. Be wary of their deceits and
their immoral and pagan customs. Do not permit yourself to become tainted by
your contact with them; do what must be done and be away from them.
Who Are Our Enemies?
Many are set about our lands and seek to steal our riches from us by trickery or
by force. These peoples, Lunars, nomads, Agimori, Morocanth, are often our
enemies but needs must that they are sometimes our allies. Quite simply, any
who seeks to force their customs upon us and to take from us we may count as an
enemy.
Often our warriors find service in the pay of others, so renowned and feared are
our Sun Dome Templars. On these occasions we have new enemies, but these are
not enemies of the Truth of our Way but of circumstance.
Our only perpetual enemies other than Chaos, are Darkness and Deceit in any
manifestation that they may be encountered. Creatures of the Darkness, such as
Trolls, who call themselves Uz, are our enemies; their gods robbed Yelmalio of
the Heat Rune when he lay unarmed upon the Hill of Gold. What's more, the Uz
gods fought against Yelm before Chaos came. We can never forgive them their
malice.
Who Are My Gods.
Our God is Yelmalio, son of Yelm the Fiery Father. Our women worship his wife
Ernalda and other good goddesses of the land and of the home such as Dendara,
wife of Yelm, and Chalana Arroy, the healer. Yelmalio stands tall over all
other gods and fought mightily for his father during the Dark times. Yelmalio
is a leader, a torch of truth and light burning in the wilderness that surrounds
us.
Some of our people, artisans and merchants, worship Lokarnos, the wagon god. We
respect such people because they shoulder much of the burden of dealing with
foreigners in order to trade, with minted golden coin, for goods that we need.
What Is There To Do Around Here?
Work in the fields, and practise with your spear and shield of course. Isn't
that enough? But, if you seek more than the rewards of such honest toil, then
you can try for a place with the Chomoro Hawks Shield Push team or spend some
time attending to old Istarchos; he is sure to have many wise things to teach
you. If you are lucky, a Light Son might teach some of you a little hawking.
And you can always do with practising your dance-steps for the harvest festival.
******
All the best,
Peter
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6185: =
- Post #3 and still no GRAY....
6186: =
- Re: What My father Told Me - Sun County
6187: =
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 13 Sep 1994
6189: =
- OTE/Glorantha
6190: =
- What My *R*ather Told Me?
6191: =
- RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 12 Sep 1994, part 1
6192: =
- RUNEQUEST DAI
6193: =
- Basmol
6194: =
- Kitori
6195: =
- Vinga; Land Goddesses
6196: =
- Re: Something for the Digest -- Received
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Post #3 and still no GRAY....
Message-ID: <01HH2TO0M...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 14 Sep 94 09:29:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6185
The Blue Wizard speaks again.
David Scott
===========
DH>>>Whether this is true or not doesn't really
DH>>>matter: what matters is what they believe.
PM>>So if I believe that Yelmalio didn't really loses his fire powers at the
PM>>Hills of Gold, I can use Fireblade? To me this is simplistic.
DS>If any of my players said the above, they'd definately be labled as
DS>dangerous heretic.
If a heresy proves more effective in combating the problems and issues of the
society than the orthodox belief than it will eventually become the belief. I
need only point at the Vegantarianism Heresy of the Mari Mountains.
DS>I may be wrong but arn't most religons about belief.
True, but in Glorantha, there are numinous beings in the otherworld known as
gods. If you worship them *correctly* you will gain benefits from them. The
religious beliefs of a culture are an attempt to worship a god or pantheon in
such a way that it maximises the benefit that culture recieves.
DS>As part of their initiation, I'm sure most worshoppers would directly
DS>experience the suffering that Yelmalio felt on the Hill of Gold. Just
DS>because you can say I don't believe it, most wouldn't as they KNOW and FELT
DS>what really happened.
The question is not whether One doesn't believe it, but whether it should be
this way. The Orthodox Yelmalion says yes, whereas a tribe living close to a
orlanthi cult that has a fixation with lets kill evil emperors everywhere and
begins a mania of Solar persecutions may have second thoughts. One aspiring
hero may decide to 'bring justice to the cold sun' and goes on the Hills of Gold
quest in an attempt to wrest the lightning spear of Orlanth. He succeeds and
has the bonus not only that he and his people can cast lightning and the
Orlanthi cultists can't but he also gets fiery powers because he was able to
beat off Zorak with the lightning spear.
When his priest performs the HHD ceremony, the myth is changed to what the hero
did (we assume the hero did it for the tribe). Of course now he has to cope
with the changed values of the people he represents (like Nick said) as well
as the loss of some of Yelmalios truths. The changed values will largely be
related to the unorthodox methods that the hero used in combating Orlanth. If
he hid behind the bushes when Orlanth came along and bushwacked him then his
people would start to become more cunning, indulge in guerilla warfare instead
of the traditional hoplite tactics and so on.
Nick Brooke
===========
>IMHO, Yelmalions who wanted to *win* at the Hill of Gold would be like
>Christians who thought the Crucifixion was a bad thing, and HeroQuested/
>time travelled back to Judaea with a ladder and a claw-hammer to stop it
>from happening.
My thoughts exactly. Most Yelmalions would not think much of the 'Bring
Justice to the Cold Sun' for the reason it brings them closer to Yelmalio.
However there have been people who got the wrong end of the stick about some
myths in every age. A belief exists among Muslims (based on an ambigous phrase
in the Koran which can also translate as 'in crucifying him, you only gained a
shadow of victory' or something like that) that Jesus wasn't actually
crucified but an occult (normally means hidden powers in Muslim tradition)
shadow so treated in his place. If the Caliph was ravaged by social turmoil
and the antichrist is upon his borders (yes, Islam does have acopalyptic
traditions similar to christianity), he might (assuming gloranthan magic was
in effect in the RW - hahaha) go back with an occult shadow to Judea to bring
back Jesus.
Sandy
=====
Thanks for the update on Teleos. I'll now try and think of something weird.
--Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: jo...@hyphen.com (Jon Green)
Subject: Re: What My father Told Me - Sun County
Message-ID: <11215.94...@diss.hyphen.com>
Date: 13 Sep 94 10:13:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6186
Peter J. Whitelaw in X-RQ-ID: 6182:
> What My Rather Told Me - A Personal View Of Sun County Life
> =====================================================
Thank you, Peter, for an excellent and well-written summary of Sun County
life.
---------------------
From: phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: OTE/Glorantha
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 13 Sep 94 19:47:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6189
In-Reply-To: <940913071...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
Interestingly, and I think independantly to my good friend and old school
mate Duncan Hedderly I briefly considerered an OTE/Glorantha game and
rejected it for quite different reasons.
With the right players (ie those who knew the world quite well - not what
Duncan said he was wanting to run last time we spoke) I think OTE, with
it's very quick and fluid mechanics could work - its a step towards
systemless for those who still hanker after systems. The problem would be
that EVERYONE would wind up with skills like:
Sword of Humakt (4d6) in their best slot, and they'd all look the same.
OTE is a game in which not everyone will be a fighter, and in a world
dominated by warriors it would loose some of it's appeal.
My current working ideas are for a Ralios based city state game using
systems ripped out of Vampire - very powerful PCs leading factions within
the city, all sitting on the town council. Or Star Wars for a bouncy,
medium powered heroes game. It's the magic systems for each that are
stumping me at present. If I had an ideal way of getting them to work
then I'd go for the system I could handle. Ralios is especially difficult
as I worked out how to get theist magic working and then realised that
I'd need sorcery as well.
If people are interested I could upload some notes.
Incedentally I think there's an OTE/Glorantha thread on
rec.games.frp.misc, but I'm not a member at present.
**************************************************************
Phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Has it never occured to you that the Romans counted backwards?
(Be honest.)
**************************************************************
---------------------
From: 10010...@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: What My *R*ather Told Me?
Message-ID: <940913220625_100...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 13 Sep 94 22:06:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6190
Hi all,
I guess it doesn't bode well if i can't type the title correctly. Since I am
not sure what a 'What My Rather Told Me' is, please substitute 'Father' for
'Rather' in my post yesterday.'
What I forgot to say was that I would be keen to know where others would differ
with my own interpretation.
******
Pam:
>Our little RQ group here was once captured, tied up, and forced to play
>Shadowrun for five tortuous sessions. Living in Seattle, we thought, "Oh,
well, at >least we won't have to memorize a new map!" It was little
consolation. (OK -
>apologies in advance to any SR fans out there...)
Urrgghh. My sympathies.
>We're getting our revenge, though.
Ain't it sweet?
******
For the record, I recently wrote up a dramatised version of the escape of my
players from Muriah's High Holes (SotB) to serve them as a recap. It's a little
long to post to the Daily so you will probably see it in a future Digest.
So get your boots on and prepare to wade through some treacley (sp?) prose <g>
******
All the best,
Peter
---------------------
From: mmor...@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 12 Sep 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <1994Sep13.1...@vnet.ibm.com>
Date: 13 Sep 94 20:00:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6191
*** Reply to note of Mon, 12 Sep 94 09:15:24 +0200
*** by RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Kuri writes:
K> I have a question about Blank Truestone.
K>
K> A priest who cast all his rune spells into the trunestone
K> (A) cannot regain them and he must resacrifice to the spell.
K> or
K> (B) can regain them when he pray in his temple as usual.
K>
K> which is true?
As I understand it, neither. A priest casts his/r Rune Magic
into Truestone (blank or simply empty); the priest/ess cannot
regain the use of those spells until they are cast from the
Truestone. Once they are cast from the Truestone, the priest/ess
can regain the spells in the usual way (if they were reusable).
The Truestone merely makes the spells portable, it does not count
as having actually cast them -- that's why the priest/ess can't
use or regain the spells until they are cast from the Truestone.
I think this also differs from Rune Magic matrices in that the
matrix holds the spell (or the ability to cast it) and the
priest/ess can regain the spell in the usual way -- and the
matrix is reusable. Truestone is not; it is refillable, but
not reusable.
Anyone care to post how this works using the Rune Pool system?
Michael
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael C. Morrison IMS Information Development Tieline 8-543-4706
Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California (SWS) Phone (408)463-4706
Bitnet ID: MCM at VNET Fax (408)463-4101
Internet ID: MMOR...@VNET.IBM.COM or USIB...@IBMMAIL.COM
IBM Mail Exchange ID: USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL or USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL
X.400 Address: G=mcmgm; S=morrison; P=ibmmail; A=ibmx400; C=us
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: guy....@chrysalis.org
Subject: RUNEQUEST DAI
Message-ID: <940913181...@chrysalis.org>
Date: 13 Sep 94 16:15:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6192
GH> Alas, while I was out of town for the weekend, my BBS apparently had
GH> some kind of malfunction, and I lost the Runequest Dailies and the
GH> Digest from Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Can someone take pity on
GH> me and Email these to me?
GH> GUY (guy....@chrysalis.org) aka Fido Two-Big-Clubs
Of course, I should have put the dates in question on there, as it
appears there's some delay between my sending this request and it
arriving at the Daily. I mean the Dailies from Sept. 3-5 and the latest
edition of the RQ Digest, the one on Trade. Thanks ever so!
The aforementioned Fido Two-Big-Clubs
BTW, while I'm here, I should mention that my character (Fido), a former
Herd-man, is about to rescue his mate (still a herd-woman) from the
high-kickin' Kung Fu Morokanth. Dang (to paraphrase Sandy). Shoulda
brought some shuriken.
Since we know what tactics the Morokanth use (thanks, Sandy!), how about
some tactics to use AGAINST them??
* RM 1.3 * Eval Day 17 * RoboMail -- The next generation QWK compatible
reader!
---------------------
From: Arg...@aol.com
Subject: Basmol
Message-ID: <940913223...@aol.com>
Date: 14 Sep 94 02:31:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6193
I'd just like to add my voice to the chorus of appreciation for Bryan's
Basmol poetry. Fantastic vision.
Peter Michaels has some good stuff on the Basmoli, too. The one thing that
really sticks in my memory from it is that the Basmoli believe that Basmol
was lured to Prax by the scent of Eiritha's blood, and it was Basmol's
job/duty to kill her and thereby put her out of her misery. By foiling him
in this task, the Praxians are perverting nature.
I'd write more but Oliver Stone just fried my mind.
--Martin
---------------------
From: dav...@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: Kitori
Message-ID: <1994091403...@cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 14 Sep 94 19:47:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6194
I have been discussing the Kitori and others with Bernard Langham
recently, and I thought that I would raise the issue on the list.
My conception of the Kitori is that they are really two tribes with
a very close alliance, a human Orlanthi tribe and a tribe of Uz. The
cornerstone of the alliance is the symbolic marriage between the Chief of
the Orlanthi, and the Queen of the Uz. There are references to the Queen of
the Kitoris lovers as a force of fierce troll warriors in KOS, who I took
to be the many trolls warriors who attend the Queen, as is quite normal in
Uz society.
I conceived of them as being basically divine magic users, as well,
the only really unusual thing being a great prevalence of Argan Argar
worshippers. Bernard suggested (and I think he may have got the idea from
Joerg) that the Kitori are more sorcery using, and are basically Stygians/
Arkati. I disagree, thinking that they are basically divine users, though
probably with several sorcerous users among them (as is not unusual among
trolls who venerate Arkat). I do think that it is possible that they
venerate Argan Argar as Ernaldas husband, as is done in parts of Kethaela.
So the questions I would like discussed are - what is the social
structure of the Kitori? What divine magic do they use? How much
Arkati/Stygian influence is there?
A related question is where exactly is the temple of Black Arkat
(the human temple that teaches troll Arkati sorcery)? I think that it is
not within Kitori lands, though Kitori troll Arkati may accept some human
students.
I also note in passing that I have long thought that Kitori lands
are a good place for a campaign setting. The troll allies enable the GM to
really use most of the excellent troll source material, it is near much of
the near future historical action (siege of Whitewall, sacking of Karse,
King Broyan of the Volsaxi), and it is also near a nice big juicy Chaos
Nest.
Cheers
Dave Cake
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Vinga; Land Goddesses
Message-ID: <1994091406...@radiomail.net>
Date: 14 Sep 94 06:34:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6195
Bryan Maloney's version of Vinga is somewhat different than mine, as I've
already mentioned. One thing I found odd was the term "Red Ladies," as it
sounds like those hated priestesses from Peloria...
How do people run the Land Goddesses? Dorasta, frex, is a Land Goddess, as
well as a Grain Goddess. Her health and the health of the land appear to be
somewhat connected.
In King of Sartar, the Feathered [Horse] Queen represents the "inherent
sovereignty of the land, based on the consciousness of working with the
goddess within it." I've been giving Ralia this power -- to become king of
the tribe, you need to ritually marry a Ralia priestess (exactly what this
means for female kings I haven't worked out).
Elsewhere in KoS, Moirades of Tarsh marries the Feathered Queen of the
Kerofin Temple, who presumably also embodies the sovereignty of the land.
[This is a troublesome passage since it appears to raise confusion between
the FHQ of the Grazers and the FQ of the Earth temple.]
It seems clear that there is the concept of sovereignty of the land, though
it's far from clear that it's in the Grain Goddess (Esrola), but rather in
other Earth goddesses.
BTW, we've been wondering what Dorasta's grain is. Maize, same as her
mother Pelora?
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Something for the Digest -- Received
Message-ID: <940914064...@boxtel.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 14 Sep 94 07:49:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6196
I will post this soon.
David, I'd appreciate suggestions for good
cutting points in the text, should I make
this 10+19k, 15+14, or say, 18+11?
> From dav...@cs.uwa.edu.au Wed Sep 14 06:19 MET 1994
>
> Dear Henk,
> I was about to post this to the RQ Daily, when I notice
> that it was 29k long, which seemed a bit excessive. I have said in the past
> that I was going to post it, so I would apreciate it if you sent it out via
> the digest.
>
> A few things to note about it: I welcome any constructive criticism
> of it; it is intended to appear in TOTRM some time, probably slightly
> revised from what appears here; I have to thank Dave Pearton, who mentioned
> the Imboyngi as a specialist role, which I have incorporated here, and made
> other useful comments and suggestions; and I was not particularly impressed
> with some aspects of the Aranjara/ Left Hand path work by John Hughes, so
> they get fairly short shrift in this, I'm afraid.
> I am working on a Pamaltalan scenario, possibly a companion piece
> to this article.
> Here it is.
>
> ***
>
> Dealing with the Doraddi
>
> A guide by Genvan the Generous, Foreign Merchant Prince of Fonrit
>
> I have heard many young merchants from far lands say that you cannot
> bargain with the Doraddi, but this is just impatience and lack of
> knowledge speaking. I have dealt with them many times, and great profits
> can be made, for they have great natural wealth, but not as great skill
> among their artisans as the people here in Fonrit, or in other ports.
> Listen to me and you may learn how you may profit by them as well.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 13 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <940913162...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 13 Sep 94 04:25:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6187
David Cowling:
> How often do broo get to within half to one and a half days of
>Jonstown?
In a powergaming campaign, almost every day. In a wargaming
campaign, every season. In a roleplaying campaign, whenever we've
been spending too much time screwing around in town. In a
storytelling campaign, when it suits the GM.
If you want "realism" -- it's only a one or two day walk from
Snake Pipe Hollow to Jonstown for a hardy critter like a broo.
>What are the local Storm Bull Forces like, if any?
Just barely weak enough to need the help of the PCs.
>What kind of Chalana Arroy and Humakt temples are in Jonstown, and
>who are the personalities associated with them?
I would expect to find a large and powerful Chalana Arroy
temple, because I play CA healers as town-based, but traveling around
the land, like old-time country doctors making their rounds. Dunno
about the Humakt Temple. Probably have a reasonably good-sized one,
and all the Humakti from the various local tribes attend for at least
the high holy day (sticking to their own shrines for the less
important holy days).
Dunno about the personalities. If my players visited
Jonstown, I'd make 'em all up out of whole cloth on the spot
regardless of what had been published.
Nick Brooke:
>In my games, a priest who cast all his rune spells into a Truestone
>would only be able to regain the use of each spell when the spell
>had been cast from the Truestone. This is how it happened to
>Biturian Varosh, it seems.
Clarification from my own and Steve Perrin's campaigns. When
you first get an _unset_ Truestone, and cast your spells into it,
they're gone for good, and the stone's got 'em. If you get a _set_
Truestone, and cast your spell into it, it just fills the slot, and,
when cast, you can regain it.
>IMHO, Yelmalions who wanted to *win* at the Hill of Gold would be
>like Christians who thought the Crucifixion was a bad thing, and
>HeroQuested/ time travelled back to Judaea with a ladder and a
>claw-hammer to stop it from happening.
Spot on. In the heroquest as I have written it, while it is
possible to "win" and thus retain your fire powers, this _does_ have
the alarming side effect of NOT being able to gain immortality.
Fireblade -- immortality. You be the judge.
>Victorian Public School Heroes = Yelmalions
Wow. So now it's _okay_ to kill them, right?
Pam Carlson said, some time ago, that she thought it was unlikely
that a Praxian would sell a herd beast to someone who didn't even
_know_ Peaceful Cut.
Now, obviously a Praxian who was starving, or irreligious, or
had some other excuse, might sell a herd beast to an Orlanthi. But I
think in general they sell living beasts only to other Praxians,
though goods made from beasts, hides, and jerky are all traded
eagerly.
While on the subject, a sable rider might be slightly more
willing to sell a captured herd beast (impala or something) than he
would a sable, but I suspect that even this is frowned upon --
considered unethical but legal, kind of like eating herd men or
raiding another clan of your own tribe. Of course, if a sable rider
sold _sables_, he'd anger his clan's Eiritha women unless he had a
mighty good reason.
Now for some biological talk Useful To Glorantha.
The Wapiti is extremely feisty -- approximately 5% of all adult male
wapiti in a given year die in combat with another wapiti. Hence, I
believe that the Pralori hsunchen are also exceedingly aggressive and
ferocious. I'm sure they fight among themselves all the time, and
would probably be dangerous to visit. For sure you don't want to mess
with their women.
SABLE ANTELOPE INFORMATION
Raising sables? Here's some facts:
Both males and females are horned. They graze almost
exclusively on grass during the wet season, but when it's dry,
they'll resort to tree leaves (but only if they have to). They
dislike getting too far from water, but don't need it as often as
impalas. When the grass is growing (i.e., during the rainy season, or
on good ground), the land can support 4 sables per square km. Sables
live up to 20 years, when well-kept.
The sable antelope has no specific breeding season, but mates
year-round. Females enter estrus 2-3 weeks after giving birth, and
produce a calf every 10 months or so. The single calf weighs 13-18 kg
(30-40 lbs), and remains hidden at least 10 days (no doubt
accompanied by the herd's owning Eiritha woman). Females attain
sexual maturity in 2 years.
A typical herd consists of 20-150 or more females (and
young). During the dry season, the herd concentrates together. In the
rainy season, the animals disperse into small bands. When the calves
are about to be born, at the end of the rainy season, there is even
more dispersion. The males maintain fixed territories at all times
(i.e., the females band together and then fragment, but the males
stay "stable"). In addition, bachelor males form together in groups
of 2-12.
Bachelors are driven from the herds at the age of 3-4, and
badn together. When they get 5-6 years old, they become solitary, and
try to form a territory. A male takes possession of any female herd
that enters his territory, but when the females leave, the male has
to wait till the next time.
The individual herds of females are, of course, owned by
individual sable riders. The bachelor males are ridden by sable
bachelors, who travel, raid, cause trouble, and are generally bad
news until they are ready to get married, when they return to the
clan and settle down.
IMPALA
Unlike other antelope (like the Praxian sable), the impala
requires a source of free water. NOTE: female impalas do NOT have
horns. Female impalas are hence not ridden, even by women, since the
horns are important to steering antelopes while riding (personal
opinion). Impalas graze on grass, and browse on leaves, and must
drink at least once a day. They live 13-17 years, tops.
Impalas generally give birth during two breeding seasons each
year -- any one female only gives birth once in a year, but the herd
as a whole has two "birth peaks". One such peak is at the end of the
rainy season. The other is at the start. The calf is born about 6-7
months after conception, and weaned 5-7 months later. Males are
physiologically capable of reproduction at 13 months.
During the dry season, impalas, male and female and young all
congregate together into gigantic herds and social structure breaks
down. They just all travel together. During the wet season, it's more
complicated During that time, a typical herd consists of 10-100
females and young. The bachelor males form into bands of 60 or so and
go wandering around on their own. The individual herds belong to
"clans" (a behavioral term) which associate loosely together. Impalas
from rival clans are NOT fought, nor is there overt hostility, but
association is rare (except in the dry season), and females usually
stay in their clan of birth.
The individual herds are, of course, owned by individual
impala riders. During the dry season, the impala riders get together
into exceedingly large groups unlike, say, the sables or high llamas.
The bachelor males are ridden by impala bachelors, who raise hell all
the rainy season. The bastards. Impala raids basically disappear
during the dry season, when they've all grouped together, but they're
also hard to raid at that time.
BISON
Bison are mainly grass-eaters, and rarely eat anything else.
Bison mate in the fall, and give birth in the spring, to a
single calf. In a given herd of bison, all the mating basically takes
place in a single two-week period (which is usually also the occasion
for many fertility dances/festivals/orgies for the riders). The calf
weighs 15-30 kg at birth, can walk and run within 3 hours, and is
weaned 7-12 months later. Hence, the bison do not go off and seek
secret breeding places, unlike the sables. The mother guards her
young closely, and charges intruders. Sexual maturity is reached at
2-4 years, and physical maturity at 6 years for males, 3 years for
females. Females give birth once every 1-2 years. Bison are
long-lived, up to 40 years.
Bison band together into as large a herd as they can, and
make huge seasonal migrations for the winter. The whole herd goes
traipsing to the traditional wintering grounds, then heads back north
(or wherever) for the summer. This may sound less complex than the
social dance performed by other tribes, but internal politics and
dominance within a herd are pretty sophisticated.
Other plains animals later, if interest warrants.
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6197: =
- Truestones
6198: =
- Truestone Revisited.
6199: =
- Blue Elves are Somewhere Orother
6200: =
- missing dailies...
6201: =
- HeroStuff & OTE
6202: =
- Convulsion '94; Lunars; Soldiers of the Red Moon
6203: =
- Lunar cults cont'd; Dart Wars; Vampires; Rune Points
6204: =
- Land goddesses and grain goddesses
6205: =
- Praxians selling herd-beasts
6206: =
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 14 Sep 1994
6207: =
- unsub list ful...@aol.com
6208: =
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 06 ...
6209: =
- Yelorna
6210: =
- Truestone; Ralzakark; Ragnaglar; Runic Origins; Cat Fights;
6211: =
- white buffalo
6212: =
- Animal husbandry 101
6213: =
- And now for something completely blue...
6214: =
- Vinga and boredom.
6215: =
- Nilses and Wind Childs.
6216: =
- Them pesky gods, 'gain.
6217: =
- Karandoli, and other Samly stuff.
6218: =
- Elmal, Yelmalio, and friends.
6220: =
- Re: missing dailies...
---------------------
From: DBLI...@delphi.com
Subject: Truestones
Message-ID: <01HH39AJI...@delphi.com>
Date: 14 Sep 94 01:11:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6197
I like Sandy's rules on truestones, although I find them a bit
limiting. Why throw a reusable spell into a blank truestone? It becomes
one-use, the use from the truestone. The only use is to give the spell
to a person who normally couldn't use the spell, and at what cost? You
lose both a valuable piece of Godtime plus the use of your spell.
However, this does help get rid of those obnoxious truestones like
the one in the Sun Dome Temple in Sun County. I've always hated that one
even though the creation made sense if you didn't lose the spell. Now
only a very safe & peaceful temple would have them (like a Chanala Arroy
temple). Now the creation of such a truestone would drain the temple
of almost all it's magical resources. How would you like your entire
priesthood of a temple to have all it's reusable spells made one-use until
they can resacrifice for them. Gee, the High Priest has been building up
his reusable spells for 25 years, it will now take him another 25 years
to regain them (not likely).
Also, once cast these spells have a similiar cost to replace. The
purpose of such stone is for defense, these spells will rarely if ever be
cast. Therefore the replacer is unlikely to regain the spell anytime soon
Under Sandy's structure the only use of these is as a device to
give the players a spell they normally wouldn't be able to cast. Perhaps
more of a middle ground could be sought. I like the idea about losing
the spell when setting the truestone (avoids those powergaming truestones,
"lets get the entire Red Moon's cults magic in one truestone). However,
I would let priests regain their spells put in an already set truestone.
That way a temple would reasonably be willing to put a percentage of it's
resources into creating a "temple" truestone (a rare item anyway). A few
of it's priests would lose some of their magic, but the temple gains a
powerful bid of defense or bargaining ability (we don't want to go on that
quest, but we'll loan you this stone for it, as were obiligated by cult
ties to help). Plus once cast replacing the spells won't have quite the
same onus on the caster.
David A Blizzard
---------------------
From: jonas....@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Truestone Revisited.
Message-ID: <940914125...@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 14 Sep 94 16:57:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6198
Michael C. Morrison in X-RQ-ID: 6191
>Kuri writes:
>K> I have a question about Blank Truestone.
>K>
>K> A priest who cast all his rune spells into the trunestone
>K> (A) cannot regain them and he must resacrifice to the spell.
>K> or
>K> (B) can regain them when he pray in his temple as usual.
>K>
>K> which is true?
>
> As I understand it, neither. A priest casts his/r Rune Magic
> into Truestone (blank or simply empty); the priest/ess cannot
> regain the use of those spells until they are cast from the
> Truestone. Once they are cast from the Truestone, the priest/ess
> can regain the spells in the usual way (if they were reusable).
>
> The Truestone merely makes the spells portable, it does not count
> as having actually cast them -- that's why the priest/ess can't
> use or regain the spells until they are cast from the Truestone.
This is the rule from Cults of Prax; I think the reason for the question
was that Elder Secrets doesn't go into the subject in detail.
My own posting on this subject gave a different answer, but I forgot to add
an "IMO". Sorry to anyone who thought I was quoting official rules. The
reason for my suggested ruling is that the existance of Divine Spell
Matrixes in RQ3 makes CoP Truestone somewhat less than awe-inspiring.
> I think this also differs from Rune Magic matrices in that the
> matrix holds the spell (or the ability to cast it) and the
> priest/ess can regain the spell in the usual way -- and the
> matrix is reusable. Truestone is not; it is refillable, but
> not reusable.
Ummm, I don't really see the difference: according to RQ3, you need a
ceremony in a temple to recharge a rune matrix, but the spell is not
reusable for the creator of the matrix.
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Blue Elves are Somewhere Orother
Message-ID: <01HH4CKYT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 15 Sep 94 09:40:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6199
G'day all,
Henk: contents listing is appreciated!
Sandy: despite my growing weariness with the moose/elk debate, I found your
notes on various other sorts of herdbeasts very valuable. Wanna have a go
at Herd Men in the same vein?
__________
Blue Elves
Nick:
>It's a typo. We had a map from Greg that had a scribble which might have
>read either 'blues' or 'elves' down in that corner; MOB opted for both. I
>think 'blues' is the correct interpretation. Meaning, "Here Be The Veldang
>Blue-Skinned Artmali Folk From Zamokil".
Me too. They are not meant to be elves.
Nick:
>IMHO, Yelmalions who wanted to *win* at the Hill of Gold would be like
>Christians who thought the Crucifixion was a bad thing, and HeroQuested/
>time travelled back to Judaea with a ladder and a claw-hammer to stop it
>from happening. The apparent 'wounding' and 'defeat' of Yelmalio are the
>core facets of his religion, and not seen as irritating and/or embarrassing
>failures by his followers. They don't think there's anything that needs to
>be put right: Yelmalio showed the faithful what he was made of by surviving
>the worst that the Long Night could throw at him. "Don't give up"; "Never
>say die"; "Stiff upper lip, chaps"; "It's always darkest before the dawn",
>"It's only a flesh wound, I've had worse". Their whole ideology (Spartan
>Phalangites / Victorian Public School Heroes) is based on this: survival in
>the face of adversity, "hanging in there" no matter how bad it gets. Ideal
>for a Hoplite society. To supplant that, you'd have to reject and remodel
>your culture's values. Ask MOB what the penalty for that kind of seditious
>heresy would be in Sun County.
Excellent summary Nick. I agree with you wholeheartedly. It is possible to
reject and remodel such values, but if you try it openly in Sun County
(Prax) you're likely to find yourself charged with the extremely serious
crime of heresy. At the very least, you will find yourself sent out to
Pent Ridge in Vulture's Country to dig salt for a decade or two (the
Count having recently embraced the concept of penal servitude following
the reopening of the mines). Indeed, it is rumoured that Daystar, one of
the Sun Dome Temple's priests, was sent there five years ago for mouthing
such views openly - more about him in the new Sun County scenarios I
am preparing! Other penalties might involve mutilation or death in various
creative ways depending on the heretic's rank, sex and willingness to recant.
Cheers
MOB
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: missing dailies...
Message-ID: <940914135...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 14 Sep 94 17:52:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6200
If you received last friday's Daily complete,
please drop me a line...
---------------------
From: yfc...@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: HeroStuff & OTE
Message-ID: <9409141531.aa12153@uk.ac.ed.castle>
Date: 14 Sep 94 14:31:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6201
Peter Metcalfe Says :
> One aspiring
>hero may decide to 'bring justice to the cold sun' and goes on the Hills of Gold
>quest in an attempt to wrest the lightning spear of Orlanth. He succeeds and
>has the bonus not only that he and his people can cast lightning and the
>Orlanthi cultists can't but he also gets fiery powers because he was able to
>beat off Zorak with the lightning spear.
>
>When his priest performs the HHD ceremony, the myth is changed to what the hero>did (we assume the hero did it for the tribe). Of course now he has to cope
>with the changed values of the people he represents (like Nick said) as well
>as the loss of some of Yelmalios truths.
If he did it for his tribe, he must have the full backing and support of the
tribe when he goes on the heroquest. He can't just sneak off on his own, do
the quest and surprise everyone next HHD. That won't work. I agree with your
sentiments though. Geting back the fire powers sounds great, but it runs much
deeper than that. Sandy's point about a quester who gains the fire powers not
getting immortality is well made. Every heroquest has a price.
I can also imagine secret mystery cults and gnostic heresies, with
their own variants of mainstream cult myths and knowledge of secret quest
paths. These are likely to be very dangerous, though and may have all sorts
of unforseen consequences.
BTW when Sandy clarified the point that a warior of humakt must be defeated to
enter the heroplane, it made me think. What better duty for an aged Humakti,
it reminds me also of The Long Walk taken by aged Judges (2000AD). The
grizzled old warrior would just wait in limbo, challenging allcomers utill
he is bested.
I had an idea about Humakt a few weeks ago. What was a wind god doing poking
about in hell, let alone within the darkness that is Subere. I was also
wondering how the trolls worship Humakt (eg the Troll Humakti in the Sazdorf
clan). Then it struck me. Humakt must have been the moaning winds of doom
that howl through the caverns of the underworld. Might the trolls still
worship him in theis aspect? He may even have been a troll god from before
his discovery of Death. Humans only worship him on the surface world and so
are totaly unaware of this other aspect.
Nick Eden talks about OTE/Glorantha and Ralios :
>If people are interested I could upload some notes.
If you don't post them, please E-Mail me. I would like to run a Galastar game
with a similar feel. Also, I have been toying with a realy simple game system
for introducing people to roleplaying. It has some similarities with OTE by
the sounds of it. My aim is for a one-page game system.
Simon Hibbs
yfc...@castle.ed.ac.uk
---------------------
From: Lynne....@bhein.rel.co.uk (Clayton, Lynne)
Subject: Lunar cults cont'd; Dart Wars; Vampires; Rune Points
Message-ID: <9408147795....@reedel1.bhein.rel.co.uk>
Date: 14 Sep 94 13:42:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6203
Continued From: Paul Honigmann, Oxford, UK
===========================================
GLORANTHAN HINTS from Sandy Petersen, cont'd:
================
What can you tell us of the Cult of the Red Emperor?
WARNING: Henk tells me this differs greatly from Greg Stafford's version:
SP: he isn't worshipped directly. He gets power passed on through other
deities. If there is a cult, it isn't really one a PC would ever have a chance
to join, or want to for that matter. PC's are unlikely to ever come across it.
...She Who Waits?
SP: No-one really knows anything about her. In ceremonies, her part is
taken by someone wearing a mask.
...the White Moon?
SP/FGS: Who knows?
...Invisible Orlanth?
SP: This is a minor cult in Carmania and he thinks it's actually
suppressed by the Lunars, ie they don't turn a blind eye to it but are
actively opposed to it. Whether it's anything to do with Orlanth he doesn't
know. Trouble is, Carmanians (especially the nobles) just love joining
secret societies because of the intense intrigue of the area, so any power
group you can join might give you an advantage. Also, it's probably a bit of
an esoteric Mystery cult which appeals to degenerate nobles, having an exotic
and decadent sound to it, so it's very difficult to stamp out. The Lunars have
better things to do in the area than chase down members of a crackpot group
when others are involved in much more serious conspiracies.
DART WARS
=========
I collared FGS and SP on this one and they both broadly agreed: the
Emperor turns a blind eye to these ostensibly illegal activities because it
keeps the nobles on their toes and stops them stagnating. It's one of the
great tragedies of the Empire that several great families have been wiped
out in this fashion, but (like the issue of oppressive regimes mentioned
before, under 'Tax Demons') it's just one of those things to the Emperor.
The wars started out as duels, then they were fought by champions, then
teams of champions... simultaneously the scope of the targets widened from
one person to their entire family and then clan, like a vendetta.
Anything goes in a Dart War. There are stories of an agent being
infiltrated into a noble household and 'sleeping' for years until an
opportunity came up to poison their target. Subtlety is preferred over
brute force. I asked FGS: are bystanders, servants etc illegal targets? For
example, can you burn the target's house (incidentally immolating dozens of
servants)? 'Oh, absolutely,' he said, 'that's very very bad. Unless you win,
of course... :->'
VAMPIRES
========
I can't remember where I picked the following fact up, but it was either
here on the Daily or from FGS direct, about 2 years ago at a previous
Convulsion -
Background for readers without access to the RQ2 Cults of Terror: vampires
were originally not weedy monsters 'created by sorcerers' but extremely
powerful NPC's who had achieved rune level in the chaos cult of Vivamort.
Cults of Terror was one of the most tightly-plotted, well-thought-out bits of
RQ2 and Vivamort was one of the best bits of it, though I suppose it'll be
gelded in the RQ3 version as usual. One of a vampire's powers was the ability
to drain rune magic from an enemy by using their MP Draining Touch to leach
a victim down to 3 or less MP. At that point, the vampire gained the last
rune spell the victim sacrificed for, one-use, and the victim lost it -
permanently. It didn't matter if the victim had it as a reusable or one-use
spell; it was gone forever, and the vampire had it until it was used.
This, incidentally, meant that vampires were tricky customers because they
might have any spell you ever heard of, and more.
My question was: what happens when a vampire drains a sorcerer down to
<=3MP?
Answer: the sorcerer loses the last Blessing he sacrificed for!
Well, just thought I'd share that with you. Sweet dreams, all you
Malkioni players...
RUNE POINTS
===========
I notice that David Cheng and others have been advocating a system of
uncomitted Rune Power Points recently. IMO, these are a Bad Idea, for 3
reasons:
1. I always find that half the fun of Rune Magic is agonising over what to
sacrifice for with *this* year's hard-won 2 spare POW points, and
rejoicing / cursing later when you find you have spells appropriate, or
not, to a problem. A pool of programmable magic would be too easy.
2. If everyone could fire whatever spells they wanted whenever they wished,
- assuming they have recharged their pool - then EVERY Orlanthi will use
almost EXACTLY the same spells in a given situation. Ie: commit everything
to a huge Shield, Thunderbolt or Teleport out of there. The same goes for
all other cults. Result: you can predict almost exactly what a rune magic
user will do in combat, as long as you know his approximate age so you
can guess what his Rune Magic budget is likely to be, and cult.
3. It's powergaming.
*************** yet more to follow ! *********************
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Land goddesses and grain goddesses
Message-ID: <H.ea.Qr8...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 14 Sep 94 15:04:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6204
David Dunham in X-RQ-ID: 6195
> How do people run the Land Goddesses? Dorasta, frex, is a Land Goddess, as
> well as a Grain Goddess. Her health and the health of the land appear to be
> somewhat connected.
Hmm. My God Learner self says that the land goddesses are daughters of
Genert and the locally prevalent Earth Mother, whereas the grain
goddesses are Genert's daughters by Aldrya. This distinction doesn't
really help when you assume that both are one, as several earth cult
societies do; however the Orlanthi might view the grain goddesses as
handmaiden of the land goddess, who in turn is a daughter or handmaiden
of Ernalda.
Less male oriented cultures (like Esrolia) make all earth-connected
deities aspects of the one mother earth goddess and don't give a damn
for generations or individual ancestry.
_My_ Orlanthi (or semi-Orlanthi Aeolians) view the land goddess and the
grain goddesses as different entities, with different tasks. The tribal
land goddess is the one married by the tribal king - this explains why
Sartar has about 20 tribal kings, but why the rulers were only princes:
To become Prince of Sartar (i.e. high priest of the Ancestor worship of
Sartar as a subcult of the founding deity Sartar) one has to be a
direct descendant of the Founder, to become King of a tribe, one has to
marry the land. (Although this makes me wonder what the tribal queens
do to ensure the claim of sovereignty of their tribe - name a
champion?)
The grain goddess is directly related to the fertility, but has nothing
to do with sovereignty. To ensure her good will, out of the local
youths (and in some cases outside contestors as well, as in Garhound)
the best is chosen in a contest, is married to her representative for a
year, and mock-sacrificed afterwards.
(Around Wintertop they still do the real thing, and in Esrolia too -
the Pharaoh has stood in for this rite until late in 1616, since then I
guess they take ordinary youths again. Ask Nick Brooke for details.)
In matriarchally dominated societies like Wintertop or Esrolia, the
distinction between sovereignty and fertility is not made, and the male
rulers are sacrificed.
In any case, if a healthy handmaiden grain goddess serves an unhealthy
sovereign land goddess in male-dominated Orlanthi lands, the land and
its fertily suffers, but less so compared to societies where both
offices are one.
Having said this, all of the above applies to my vision of Dragon Pass
and Heortland, and might be totally different in Ralios or southwest
Peloria.
> In King of Sartar, the Feathered [Horse] Queen represents the "inherent
> sovereignty of the land, based on the consciousness of working with the
> goddess within it." I've been giving Ralia this power -- to become king of
> the tribe, you need to ritually marry a Ralia priestess (exactly what this
> means for female kings I haven't worked out).
IMO the Sartarite tribal kings work the same way. Kallyr as queen of
the Kheldon, Leika Ballista as queen of the Colymar and Yrsa Nightbeam
as queen of the Torkani are the only living tribal queens I know of,
and in the history of the Colymar only one other queen appears
(Umathkar Orldagsdotter, 1565-1573).
In the case of the Kyger Litor worshipping Torkani the Orlanthi method
of assigning sovereignty might have slanted towards the matriarchy of
the trolls.
The Colymar (IMO and according to CHDP) originally come from (the North
Marches of) Esrolia, and always had an earth priestess as their queen.
They might have had times when the queen embodied both earth and storm
powers, although Leika Ballista is reported as "pure" Vingan rather
than as Ernalda initiate/acolyte/whatever. She and Kallyr might be
outgrowths of the legendary egalitarianism of the Quivini Orlanthi.
> It seems clear that there is the concept of sovereignty of the land, though
> it's far from clear that it's in the Grain Goddess (Esrola), but rather in
> other Earth goddesses.
Under the Grazer domination the separation between the sovereignty
aspect and the fertility aspect is logical - the horse-riding overlords
cannot tolerate any connections between farmers' fertility rites and
their sovereignty rites. I think the same applies everywhere where
sovereignty is executed by different people than fertility (farming).
Such as in early 2nd Age Heortland, where the Hendreiki became
overlords of all the southern tribes, and while accepting the
sovereignty did not take upon themselves all of the fertility rites, or
in Peloria, where the native populace was handed from one conquerer to
the next, even though sometimes forces connected to native
Pelorian/Pelandan creed (like the Spolites in the early 2nd Age, or the
Lodrilites of Doblian and Darjiin in the later Hero Wars) came to
power.
> BTW, we've been wondering what Dorasta's grain is. Maize, same as her
> mother Pelora?
Hardly. Pelora received Maize only from Hon-eel's marriage with the
obscure elf god, as described in the history of the fifth wane. The
Pelorian Vendref in the Grazelands have Pela (the grain goddess aspect
of Pelora) as wheat goddess. (the Quivini acknowledge her, too.)
Since the cult of Dorasta was separated from that of Pelora in 450, I
doubt that she has anything to do with maize within history and Time. I
cannot say whether the Feldichi had maize or not.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Praxians selling herd-beasts
Message-ID: <H.ea.Xjc...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 14 Sep 94 15:28:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6205
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 6187
> Pam Carlson said, some time ago, that she thought it was unlikely
> that a Praxian would sell a herd beast to someone who didn't even
> _know_ Peaceful Cut.
Who says that the Sartarite herders don't use the peaceful cut when
they slaughter their cattle or sheep? The earth cults seem to do so on
swine (otherwise the Bloody Cut of the Tusk Riders wouldn't have been
that offensive).
> Now, obviously a Praxian who was starving, or irreligious, or
> had some other excuse, might sell a herd beast to an Orlanthi. But I
> think in general they sell living beasts only to other Praxians,
> though goods made from beasts, hides, and jerky are all traded
> eagerly.
Wel, I think this makes places like Pavis or Adari, where nomads
have become sedentary, the places where life beasts are sold - to
former Praxians who now live as butchers or beast traders among the
outsiders.
> Now for some biological talk Useful To Glorantha.
Useful indeed. Thanks a lot!
> The Wapiti is extremely feisty -- approximately 5% of all adult male
> wapiti in a given year die in combat with another wapiti. Hence, I
> believe that the Pralori hsunchen are also exceedingly aggressive and
> ferocious. I'm sure they fight among themselves all the time, and
> would probably be dangerous to visit. For sure you don't want to mess
> with their women.
This explains why the Kingdom of War considers them as mercenaries. I
had my problems with moose hsunchen in their armies, though - too
solitary for good mercenaries.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: Ful...@aol.com
Subject: unsub list ful...@aol.com
Message-ID: <940914135...@aol.com>
Date: 14 Sep 94 17:55:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6207
unsub list ful...@aol.com
---------------------
From: Ful...@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 06 ...
Message-ID: <940914135...@aol.com>
Date: 14 Sep 94 17:54:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6208
unsub list ful...@aol.com
---------------------
From: Lynne....@bhein.rel.co.uk (Clayton, Lynne)
Subject: Yelorna
Message-ID: <9408147795....@reedel1.bhein.rel.co.uk>
Date: 14 Sep 94 13:52:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6209
From: Paul Honigmann, Oxford, UK
================================
YELORNANS (General advice for newbie Gloranthan PC's)
=========
Michelle Ringo asks what she can do to differentiate her Yelornan PC from
others, particularly her previous Chalana Arroy and Storm Bull ones. Well:
The trouble with Storm Bull and Orlanthi characters - who seem to comprise
the majority of PC's - is that they have to be extremists in a Gloranthan
game. There's always something that has to be fought. And they're in powerful
cults; if they throw their weight around, the cult often backs them up.
Now Yelornans are an extremely small faction that can't afford to make any
more enemies - Darkness and, to a lesser extent, Chaos are more than enough.
So I would advise the use of guile and, in particular, building up a lot of
contacts with useful NPC's. I've often seen a powerful character who was
all but useless outside a fight, whilst the weed he despised gathered
information, found out who was really doing what, who might be an ally, and
was more effective. Don't neglect your warrior abilities; it is a fighting
cult; but don't rely on them alone. In particular, try to find contacts who:
- can fence hot property
- can smuggle you or an object out of a city
- hate your enemies - I wonder if your referee would allow you to work
with (female) trollkin?
- want to use you as an intermediate - for example, Storm Bulls in Pavis
might want you to pick up information from eavesdropping on Lunars, who are
friendly rivals with Yelornans. Or, you could help ransom a wealthy Lunar
from Orlanthis, because neither side has a quarrel with you. You get a 10%
commission, of course.
- people who might aquire rune metal silver: Yelorna is about the only cult
apart from Lunars who can use it, so you should be able to buy it at cut rates
from people who've just bumped off Lunars
- someone who can rework the silver into your form, so it won't be
identifiable
- Yelmalions, especially female ones
- Yelm cultists, especially Lunar ones
- Praxian barbarians: the Unicorn tribe is an acceptable non-horse tribe
- Can translate obscure languages for free, perhaps because you bring them
interesting scrolls
- female adventurers: there could be a mutual self-help 'sisterhood'
operating in the area
- alchemists (you could keep an eye out for rare plants on your travels)
- Babeester Gor cultists, for mutual help on anti-male operations where
your Light powers might be the extra edge they need
- tapping into the gossip network of adventurers' and nobles' wives
- dolling up and getting invited to important balls by nobles or Lunar
officers; getting to know important people at parties like this can be a good
way to get to see them when you need some heavy help.
Other aims for your character could be to track down and bond with a free
unicorn; to free a unicorn from a travelling zoo; to track down and kill an
alchemist who's using unicorn horn in his healing potions; an intense but
friendly rivalry with a brother in Yelmalio; tracking down a Golden Crystal
of Yelmalio's Blood before the Yelmalions get it, and presenting it to them
to show them up. You might want to study astronomy or astrology; and
spend a lot of time wandering round at night - Star Ladies are almost
nocturnal. Perhaps you could be a good thief's accomplice because you've
always got a legitimate excuse for lurking in dark alleys. Maybe you always
volunteer to take the night watch for the party, and sleep very late.
I wonder if Yelornans admire troll society in a wry fashion - after all,
it's a matriarchy and the males know their place. Perhaps Yelornans aspire to
own male slaves to show their superiority.
Other quirks of a Yelornan might be collecting statues / art of naked
males, or watching Yelmalion warriors wrestling in the Greek fashion (naked);
running an aviary for wounded birds; collecting coloured glass beads or gems
which refract light strongly; putting out food for wild birds; duelling
Lunars ('cos they stole Silver from your Goddess); sabotaging cockfights;
collecting horse brasses for your mount and talking with 'horsey' phrases:
"I've hurt my fetlock!" "Calm down, stop champing at the bit";
swearing by Lightfore or other stars; purifying trolls by Fire; flirting with
men and then dropping them (could be dangerous); or using astrology to do a
Divination, then following what the stars said.
- Yes, I think Yelornans should have a skill in Astrology,
maximum possible 50%, and every now and then should be
found doing something completely bonkers as a result! Say, travelling vast
distances to find a new born babe, or witness a conjunction or eclipse...
trying to find a two-headed cockroach to avert a disaster... and it's a good
DM's device to guide you to an adventure.
And what about sports? Many adventuring characters have a 'hobby', be it
trollball or hunting. Perhaps Yelornans tend towards polo, or 'horse' racing.
Well, hope some of that gives you ideas. Sorry you asked yet?
***************** still more...but I promise its only one more! ************
---------------------
From: f6...@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: white buffalo
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.4.7...@quads.uchicago.edu>
Date: 14 Sep 94 21:07:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6211
Greg Fried here.
Just thought some of the non-US readers of the Daily might be interested to
learn that on the news here last night it was reported that a _white buffalo_
has been born in Wisconsin. This is _not_ an albino (as far as I could tell
from the newscast footage) but a true white buffalo. Native Americans have
flooded the land of the farmer/rancher (a white man, BTW) to whose herd the
calf was born, since this event event has religious significance almost as
great as the second coming. Someone, please correct me if this is wrong, or
fill it out further, but the legend of the Lakota Sioux was that White
Buffalo Woman would return as a white buffalo to signal a great turn of
fortune for the Sioux people -- and for humanity as a whole.
According to one biologist interviewed, the chances of this birth are one in
10 million.
Ideas for RQ scenario, anyone?! A white buffalo is born to a mother who has
been taken prison by the Sables ... who are SURE it should be RED.... and are
going about a heroquest to make it so..... Your Bison clan to the rescue!
-- GF out.
---------------------
From: 10010...@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: Animal husbandry 101
Message-ID: <940914230206_100...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 14 Sep 94 23:02:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6212
Hi all,
Sandy:
>Other plains animals later, if interest warrants.
Yes please!
******
Jon Green:
>Peter J. Whitelaw in X-RQ-ID: 6182:
>
>> What My Rather Told Me - A Personal View Of Sun County Life
>> =====================================================
>
>Thank you, Peter, for an excellent and well-written summary of Sun County
>life.
Thanks! I must confess to having experienced a little trepidation at tossing my
material into the line of fire.
I made a conscious effort to try and stick to more mundane issues (e.g. What
people wear) rather than the spiritual (intricacies of the Sun Pantheon etc.) as
there are already plenty of divergent opinions on the latter.
******
All the best,
Peter
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: And now for something completely blue...
Message-ID: <01HH53F5J...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 16 Sep 94 00:28:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6213
David D:
=======
>How do people run the Land Goddesses? Dorasta, frex, is a Land Goddess, as
>well as a Grain Goddess. Her health and the health of the land appear to be
>somewhat connected.
IMO the grain of a particular goddess is a tool or spirit that has been
acquired by that goddess. Normally bless crops will work with any old grass
and edible legumes but the special crop means the areas a bit better for
growing the crop.
>It seems clear that there is the concept of sovereignty of the land, though
>it's far from clear that it's in the Grain Goddess (Esrola), but rather in
>other Earth goddesses.
My money is on the land/grain goddesses from their descent from Gata and
Genert. This can of course be confused with other earth goddesses and I will
leave that up to the myth makers.
>BTW, we've been wondering what Dorasta's grain is. Maize, same as her
>mother Pelora?
Maize really only entered the Lunar empire with Hon-eel and the southern tribes
rejected her grain. IMO from my interpetation of the graoy (don't hiss folks!)
the Pelorians grew barley and rice prior to this. Unless anything else comes
up my guess is on Barley.
Sandy:
======
>IMPALA
> Unlike other antelope (like the Praxian sable), the impala
>requires a source of free water. NOTE: female impalas do NOT have
>horns. Female impalas are hence not ridden, even by women, since the
>horns are important to steering antelopes while riding (personal
>opinion).
Like motorbikes? *Groan* I can imagine 'the wild tribe' set in Adari when a
gang of impala riders zoom into the city streets lead by a marlon brando
lookalike and they terrorize the population...
--Peter Metcalfe.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Vinga and boredom.
Message-ID: <940915033...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Sep 94 03:30:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6214
David "ennui" Hall grumbles:
> David Switch:
> Please hurry up with this. I want to switch with Dave Cake and get a cheap
> holiday in Australia!
Me too! Any closet Antipodean Alexes (Aleci?) game?
> Shargash/Entekos/Antirinausia:
> I hesitate to say this, but does anyone else out there find all of this
> endless analysis and investigation of the Glorious ReAscent obscure,
> over-complex, over-blown and completely irrelevant!
I agree that 90% of this thread is... of limited value. But see Sturgeon's
Law. The discussion seems inevitable, though, given that it's almost the
only first hand info we have on Dara Happa, and after all, GRAY was
made available for (approximately) this purpose. And where better to
discuss it? If the ovberwhelming answer ti this last is "Somewhere else!",
then perhaps we can prevail upon a Technologically Advanced person to set
up a GRAY-pendantry list.
> How can any of this waffle help me GM or play the damn game?
Straw man, since only a Complete Loonie (hi Nick?) would even attempt to
play a game in Dara Happa (latter day or otherwise), since all the much
need material is waiting to see print. When it does, mind, we'll have
other things to argue about...
> Vinga:
> I think she has the Air, Mobility and Earth runes. She is a deity for
> Orlanthi women - but she is also Orlanth Adventuress.
Earth, schmearth. Why, given her fairly-widely-agreed-on lack of any
earth powers? Do I detect a hidden assumption that all Girly Deities
are associated with the earth?
> Note: I believe that
> women can't join the cult of Orlanth per se. [...]
> To get automatic access to almost
> all Orlanthi magic (and special Vingan magic) they must join Vinga.
I think I mostly agree with this. I imagine it varies quite a bit, though.
Mortasor: "Women warriors?". "Conservative" clans in rural Sartar: it's
assumed that each gender will follow the appropriate Path, and initiation
into same is fairly on-the-nod (except in the _really_ conservative areas).
If you want to follow the "wrong" path, you have more to prove; for warrior
women, you do this by recapitulating Vinga's myth (whichever it is), and
hence are in her cult. In most "cosmopolitan" areas, the resistance is
less, and the distinction gets blurrier: there will be a Vinga shrine in
the city temple, but women Orlanthi won't be as distinctive. In yet more
liberal-thinking areas, the two cults might be Separate But Equal (not to
say fairly similar). This might an idea promulgated in hitherto chauvinist
Orlanthi lands (not Sartar, for obvious reasons) by the Lunars, in order to
(free their sisters from subjugation/undermine Orlanthi social structure).
> This theory also leads me to think that she is not
> part of the Esrolian Earth pantheon - or only a very recent addition.
> Proving her to be a part of this pantheon would make a fun campaign!
I'm not sure what the Correct Esrolian attitude to Vinga might be: either
she's well-regarded, since she demonstrates Anything You Can Do; or she
ain't, since she encourages women to ape Macho Bull Shit behaviour, which
doesn't have the same high social worth in Esrolia as elsewhere, so why
bother? Doubtless the two (uneasily) coexist, in unknown proportions.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Nilses and Wind Childs.
Message-ID: <940915035...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Sep 94 03:51:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6215
The One (and Only) True Nils (Weinander, that is):
> Peter Metcalfe (or is it the Blue Wizard?) invokes my name {rune? no one
> has contested me as primal Nils yet [...]}
Just wait until some Norwegian chap called "Rune" joins the list, and
we start discussing whether he has two Rune Runes, or as the Original
Origin, has a Rune Rune and an Infinity Rune. Then you'll all be sorry.
> OK, that's plausible, but back to the wind children of Storm walk mountains.
> They have feathered wings like a bird, yet they are storm creatures. Is there
> some wind child mythology which explains whence they came?
Until the Theyalans contacted the Dara Happans, they had no reason to make
any en masse feathered creatures -> sky gods -> bad association. I'm sure
many bird types are regarded as "good" by Sartarites, even in the present
(indeed, some are clan totems), though latter-day Orlanthi cult strictures
might lead one to think otherwise. Mind you, I'd like to see some funky
Wind Child myths too if anyone has any keen ideas.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Them pesky gods, 'gain.
Message-ID: <940915040...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Sep 94 04:07:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6216
Peter Metcalfe:
> David Hall Writes
> >Whether this is true or not doesn't really
> >matter: what matters is what they believe.
> So if I believe that Yelmalio didn't really loses his fire powers at the hills
> of Gold, I can use Fireblade? To me this is simplistic.
Yup, it sure is. Belief is not, in this context, just One Man's Opinion.
What matters is the whole communities belief about their god, and how this
reflected in their lives, and their worship. In order to re-jig the religion
to "fix" his fire powers, you'd have to redo his whole mythology, and the
whole society based upon it. Big heroquest.
> I must come out into the open and state my belief that at 0 ST, the gods were
> frozen by the web. All the myths that we have of a particular god are the
> totality of the god himself.
I don't think this is true, myself. Certainly mythology has changed since,
and while some of these changes may be caused by "rediscovering" lost truths,
I don't think that accoubts for all, or even most of them.
> Other types of cult changes can be either of two mechanisms.
> [...] the heroquester [...] invents a power in which case he becomes
> the focus of a subcult.
Right. Why isn't this "new" mythology, and effectively a new (mini-)god,
then?
> >Glorantha isn't a world based on science where things can be proved right
> >or wrong - where there is one true way.
> I do not accept this. The Gods were, the gods are.
The gods form a confluent term reduction system?
> Transferring this example to Glorantha, An Orlanthi warlord encounters a
> malkioni land and conquers it. [...] He orders the wizards of
> that land to alter the spell of worship invisible god to worship orlanth and
> borrows other malkioni traditons. Do you think that this would be successful?
Maybe, maybe not. It would depend much more on whether the locals went
for the idea, and whether a plausible mythic and ritualistic connection
could be made, than whether Orlanth "was really" the Invisible God. I don't
think this hinges on some plane of Platonic ideals somewhere, where there
are gods which Simply Are something, regardless of what people believe and
practice.
> (Yes, I know about the cult of the invisble orlanth, but that is a myth in
> carmania of how Orlanth defeated the creator and was enlightened, not the
> identification of Orlanth with the invisible god)
When I asked Greg about this, he said precisely the reverse. Mind you, he
also said he didn't know much more about it, and could conceivably have been
Nicked. Whichever way you slice it, they believe in a relationship between
the two which would not be accepted elsewhere (like Loskalm, or Sartar).
Which of them is wrong, and why does their magic still work?
> However if Elmal was not Yelmalio/Antirius/Paininthearseus, they
> were still trying to do was substitute a foreign god and the Sartarite could
> have easily made the charge of 'God Learnerism' which he doesn't.
Obviously no priest is going to stand up and boldfacedly tell his
congregation that they'd been worshipping the wrong god, let's switch to
a new one. That doesn't mean that either i) he's right, in some one true
cosmological sense; or ii) that he won't later deny any identity, when
others persist in worshipping the "wrong" god.
In any case, I don't think the typical Sartarite has a great working
knowledge of God Learnerism, so it would hardly be the insult of choice.
"Dirty Yelmic-fellow-travelling treacherous backstabbers" would do nicely.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Karandoli, and other Samly stuff.
Message-ID: <940915041...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Sep 94 04:17:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6217
Samford Phillipson escribes:
> I have been giving a lot of thought to the Varmandi re-write, trying
> to get my original stuff to match Greg's maps and KoS.
Jeepers, you have been a busy little Varmandisaga-ers, haven't you? I think
we may have to get together over pint-glass measures of Lunar gin and rabbit
about this again.
> The Zarran wars ended with the destruction of the Karandoli tribe and the
> passing of the Malani tribe. This contradicts what is said in "Lost Clans"
> which says they arrived *after* the passing of the Malani and were destroyed
> by Jenstli clan magic. Also, if the Karandoli clan *were* destroyed around 1420
> then where was Ortossi (Colymar king 1479-1491) from? The Varmandi also claim
> to have destroyed the Karandoli in the Taral War (supposedly before the Zarran
> Wars). Confused? You will be...
I noticed the Karandoli being exterminated twice, and decided that the
Varmandi mention of them was mistaken. They must have meant... uh, some
other clan. Maybe they really _were_ extermined twice: after the first
time, a new clan was formed (after the fashion of the Lonisi, or the
Antorlings), but adopting the original clans name. I also think that
"destroyed" doesn't necessarily mean to a man, but may mean just eliminated
as a self-contained body, with surviving bloodlines joining the successor
clan, or others.
BTW, as the above included text probably makes clear, if people (hard stare
at Sam, and Peter Metcalfe, for starters) write lines that are on-or-over
80 chars, when included it starts to wrap-around (or whatever) and generally
look horrible, unless someone can be bothered to reformat it. (I couldn't,
as you can tell.)
[...]
> :(C) - David Hall, Kevin Jacklin & Greg Stafford.
> I trust I haven't overstepped my 10% copying allowance here. Alex,
> you *aren't* a copywrite lawyer so seem to be qualified to speak knowledgeably,
> and at length, about such matters..
Yup. I offer the following (somewhat post hoc) advice: if Chaosium don't
sue you for every cent of your overdraft, and none of Greg's Nasty Curses
take effect on you, it must have been okay. BTW, (C) isn't a legally-
binding substitute for the Copyright word or symbol. I should really
go read up enough law to write a watertight disclaimer for all this free
legal advice, to obviate the possibility of hefty damage suits when it
All Goes Horribly Wrong.
Void where prohibited by natural law,
Alex.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: missing dailies...
Message-ID: <940915063...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 94 07:30:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6220
As Bob Luckin's experience shows, you may experience
a time warp with the Daily. As I typically get complaints
about the Friday issues, I suggest we change the "for 24h."
to "until after the week-end."
----- Begin Included Message -----
From Bob.L...@tiuk.ti.com Wed Sep 14 21:08 MET 1994
Well, I eventually got 3 parts. But two of them arrived after Saturday's
and Sunday's Dailies. The same thing happened the week before; I got someone
to forward the missing parts to me and the genuine ones showed up later.
> If this happens to you, please abide by this
> short checklist:
>
> - first wait for 24h.
> - check on ftp.csua.berkeley.edu
> - ask me
Good checklist, but based on my experience 24 hours is probably too short.
Hope it reduces the hassle you may be getting from disappointed subscribers,
though. :-)
Cheers, Bob
----- End Included Message -----
---------------------
From: Lynne....@bhein.rel.co.uk (Clayton, Lynne)
Subject: Convulsion '94; Lunars; Soldiers of the Red Moon
Message-ID: <9408147795....@reedel1.bhein.rel.co.uk>
Date: 14 Sep 94 13:23:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6202
From: Paul Honigmann, Oxford, UK
==============
I don't have direct access to the Net, so I tend to put together large
documents of accumulated like this over a period of a month or so, then ask a
friend to put it onto the Digest. This starts way back at Convulsion!
Also, I've been having trouble getting large files onto the Daily - this
is the 3rd time I've sent these comments. This time, I've split the file into
several chunks of <8kB.
CONVULSION
==========
Once again the organisers put together an excellent convention. I'll
leave discussion of the convention itself at that, no doubt others will
dissect it at length, but I wish to convey a couple of impressions I
gathered.
Firstly, RQ players seem much less rules-oriented this year. Whether
everyone is exhausted by the RQ4 trauma, or have simply become resigned to
constant changes (so why bother) I'm not sure, but it seemed much less of a
train-spotters' event. People had questions for the Chaosium staff about
rules, sure, but far more about Glorantha and mythology. This seemed much
healthier to me, as if the RQ Community had reached a sort of inner balance -
'The Game's The Thing, not The Rules'.
Secondly, items like Greg's original notes on obscure Gloranthiana at the
auction went for much less than last year. This could be because people are
no longer prepared to pay for something which may have been gospel in 1974
but is three revisions out of date now.
You'll have already gathered that all the Changes generated a peculiar
atmosphere among the players there. Perhaps the words Resigned and Exhausted
I used above should be 'a sense of wry humour'. One theory is that Greg is
deliberately changing things because if everything is set in stone, Glorantha
will go stale: he has often admitted it was inspired by his experiences in
life, and he is always reinterpreting its history as he gets older and his
perspective shifts. He is trying to subtly teach his 'disciples' more about
Life and Themselves by shifting things whenever they get too complacent!
Perspective changes and his conviction that there is more to life than
what's in front of your eyes was a large part of Greg's main address. He even
mentioned that RPG's could be the means that some people use to interact
with what they are normally blind to. 'I don't think I'll ever bring out HQ,'
he said, 'because it is up to *you* to develop a system that's what *you*
need. Once you've travelled that path, you'll have learnt a lot about yourself
and your relationship with the Invisible World.' There was very little
dissent about this - by now, most of us 30+ year olds have tried
Heroquesting and understand it's more about interacting with myths and your
people (cult / tribe / country) than powergaming.
It's strange writing about mystical / meaningful things like this on
an open Net of sceptics. Normally we discuss things on the Daily which are
accepted as tongue-in-cheek, 'what if...' off-the-wall ideas and we expect to
give and receive loads of abuse in the spirit of fun. Perhaps there will be
some mud-flinging at the above. But consider this: Greg was trying to
tell us *something*, and it was pretty moving to those who heard it, so
think about it first.
GLORANTHAN SNIPPETS
===================
And now more in the RQ Daily tradition, I'd like to touch on some
issues of a more ideological and controversial nature, to wit, Lunars.
I shamelessly pumped Sandy Peterson, Greg etc for further info on the
Empire (thought I'd just drop in a few Names there) and Mike Dawson on the
forthcoming Soldiers of the Red Moon. They wish it to be made plain that none
of what follows is official, it's their current feelings on these matters and
they may well change their minds before publication of material. But it should
help those of us running Lunar campaigns & characters.
What is a Tax Demon?
SP: A tax demon is a horrible spiky flaming monster. The point about
these is they don't attack a mere peasant for not stumping up his dues. The
Emperor sends them to get the King / Governer etc of a *province* which has
fallen behind in sending him its taxes.
This is one of the Big 'Secrets' of the Empire, SP says. The Emperor
doesn't care *what* goes on in a province, as long as he still gets his taxes
and the Lunar pantheon is still worshipped. So you can get an incredibly
oppressive regime right next to a liberal one, and the Emperor won't lift a
finger to help the oppressed. However, neither will he help a tyrant whose
people rise up & depose him: but if a new government is installed, they'd
better be sure to keep those taxes coming...
Tax demons are backed up by a (cult?) called the Furies. This is a
female warrior organisation in the Heartlands.
What are we likely to see in the forthcoming Soldiers of the Red Moon?
MD: SotRM is intended to allow players to play soldiers / mercenaries in
any of a number of Lunar cults, in the Southern reaches of the Empire. The
Lunar fighting cults are generally considered to be Yanafil Tarnils, 7
Mothers, Hwarin Dalthippa, Hon-Eel, Yara Aranis, perhaps the Furies...
Note this list does NOT include Danfive Xaron, which is not considered
primarily a *fighting* cult (though he agreed with my description of them as
a Foreign Legion type force).
SP: Don't forget that a lot of Lunar soldiers are not full-time and are
in Dee'Zola or Lodril. Those are also decent fighting cults if pressed.
What can you tell us about Yanafil Tarnils?
MD / SP: The initiates can take a gift / geas if they wish. These are
not as gross / debilitating as Humakt's, for example, Lunars aren't prejudiced
so there's no 'double damage vs. trolls' gift. The rune magic includes one-use
Sever Spirit, and reusable Morale, True Scimitar etc. YT Lords can resurrect
themselves, too, using a presacrificed one-use rune spell of 6 or 10 points
(why not use DI?) and, as many are Illumined, often have access to the Red
Goddess' magic and / or sorcery.
...Dee'Zola?
SP: Mainly a healing goddess, the Earth aspects are left to Hon-Eel
(the grain goddess who introduced Maize). Rune spells include Prehealing,
where you cast the Magic Points required *before* you get wounded (I assume
this lasts for longer than 15 minutes or it's pretty useless - PH) and a
Resist (Disease) one where you sacrifice points of POW which are permanently
added to your CON for purposes of resisting one specific disease.
Irippi Ontor?
SP: Whereas Humaktis have a really intense dislike of Yanafil Tarnils
because YT is so obviously a copy of Humakt, IO gets on OK with Lankhor Mhy
because their approaches are quite different. I can't recall further details.
...Teelo Norri?
SP: TN is not really a cult, it's more a charity like the Salvation Army.
The 'priestesses' of TN actually get their magic from other Lunar cults.
...She Who Waits?
SP: No-one really knows anything about her. In ceremonies, her part is
taken by someone wearing a mask.
*************** CONTINUED, hopefully below ***************
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 14 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <940914183...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 14 Sep 94 06:32:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6206
Pam
>Our little RQ group here was once captured, tied up, and forced to
>play Shadowrun for five tortuous sessions.
There's worse systems. Twilight 2000, for one. I'll admit,
tho, that the VERY WORST live action game I ever played in was based
on Shadowrun. It seems to stimulate bad GMing.
Guy Hoyle:
>Since we know what tactics the Morokanth use (thanks, Sandy!), how
>about some tactics to use AGAINST them??
The tactics that would amuse me the most include (but are not
limited to) the following:
1) Diguise yourselves as herd men and hope the Morocanth take
you in.
2) Dig a tunnel to the herd men corral and spirit 'em out.
3) Ask _very_ politely for your mate back. Offer to give up
your weapons as proof of your sincerity.
4) Offer to fight the Morocanth champion, bare-knuckled,
winner take all.
Thanks to Marc Paterno, I'm pumping in more details about Praxian
herd beasts:
HIGH LLAMAS
High llamas prefer open woodlands and dry savannah. Scattered
tree growth is best for these guys, for obvious reasons, but they are
able to subsist, if not thrive, on dry grass. In general, high llamas
congregate near rivers during the dry season, and spread out into
deciduous woodland during the rainy.
High llamas are mainly active during the evening and early
morning, and rest during the heat of the day. It usually sleeps
standing up, but sometimes lies down.
A high llama can lope for immense distances without tiring.
No horse can keep up with one. For long-distance running, they are
the best of all animals on the plains. Unfortunately, despite their
feet's large size, they get bogged down in wet terrain, so must avoid
marshes, and rivers present significant barriers to their movement.
High llamas are able to go without water for months at a time -- they
are commonly found near rivers not for the water, but for the tree
growth.
High llamas are both solitary and herding -- the herds can be
up to a hundred animals, or may be as small as 2-10. Young males live
in bachelor herds, but become increasing solitary as they age. Most
wild high llamas of the plains are solitary, as when herds are
spotted, the high llama riders devote much effort to capturing them.
Females give birth about every two years, normally at the
height of the dry season, though some mating activity does go on
year-round. The gestation period lasts 15 months. The calf can stand
up 20 minutes after birth and is ready to roll from then on. High
llama mothers are not particularly affectionate, much less so than
bison or sable, and are occasionally known to abandon their young
when pursued hotly. At birth, the young weigh 45-70 kg (100-150 lbs).
The calf nurses for about a year, and remains with the mother another
2-5 months after weaning. Females reach sexual maturity in 3.5 years,
males in 4.5 years. Females reach full size in 5 years, males in 7
years. A female is able to calve until she is at least 20 years, and
these animals can live up to 50 years or even more.
Yes, high llamas can "spit". This is actually the contents of
the animal's stomach, ejected from its mouth at a reasonably high
velocity in an attempt to express displeasure. When forced by hunger,
high llamas are known to eat fish, bones, or skin. They require more
salt in their diet than most other Praxian beasts, and get this from
salt-bearing plants (common in the Wastes).
High llama riders tend to be aloof and snotty, much like
their male mounts. Their bachelor gangs are small, last year-round,
and are not formally organized. When the high llamas see enemies,
they can always escape. When they see prey, they can always catch up.
The other tribes have been forced to adopt a number of interesting
strategems to deal with the "high llama problem". Fortunately for the
other tribes, the high llamas breed the most slowly of all the large
tribal animals, and the high llama riders themselves generally group
in small bands, often no more than 40 or so riders in a sept.
RHNO
Breeding occurs year-round, and the gestation period is a
year and a half. The calf weighs 40-65 kg (90-150 lbs) and is wobbly
for 2-3 days. When alarmed, the calf runs _ahead_ of its mother,
unlike most other herd beasts, which follow their mothers. Weaning
commenses at only 2 months, but nursing continues sporadically for
over a year. Females give birth every 2-3 years, and drive off their
latest calf just before they give birth. Sexual maturity comes at 4-5
years, but females won't have their first calf till they're 7 or so,
and most males won't mate till they're at least 10-12. They live up
to 40-50 years, and females remain fertile almost till they die.
Rhinos are, of course, not particularly herd-oriented, though
they'll temporarily band together in groups of a dozen or more, with
smaller, permanent units as well. Bulls are usually solitary, they
patrol their territory and try to prevent estrous females from
leaving. Bulls engage in mild lackadaisical fights when their
boundaries are violated, but when they're fighting over an estrous
female, there's some real action (head-on-charges, ramming, etc.),
which is regarded as high entertainment by the bison folk. Several
females and their calves often associate together. Subadults (driven
away by their mother with the arrival of their next sibling) will
join up with one another. Sometimes several will join up with an
adult female (who's not about to give birth) and accompany her.
Praxian rhinos need four things to thrive: flat ground, thick
bush cover, short grass (for eating), and water for drinking and
wallowing. They are almost entirely grazers, specializing in short
grasses. Wallowing in the mud is actually pretty important -- not
only does it help the rhino maintain an appropriate temperature, but
rids the animal of pests, to which it is more subject than most
Praxian fauna. Generally it takes 1.5 to 2 square km to support an
adult rhino. Vision is crappy, but senses of hearing and smell are
good. The rhinos depend heavily on their riders in combat.
Rhino riders tend to live in open groups. A clan will
normally graze over an immense area, the rhinos scattered thinly. The
only real requirement is that any given rider must be able to see the
next rider over -- perhaps a mile or more away (rhino riders often
tie flags to their lances to help in this). One reason the rhino
riders can get away with this is because their herd is practically
immune to most predation. Coyotes, hyenas, even broos generally think
twice before messing with a rhino.
When human enemies are spotted, the riders signal one another
and rapidly band together into an unstoppable mass. A typical rhino
rider has one bull and a few cows with calves. Not really enough to
support a family, but combined with gathering and some hunting, the
rhino riders make do. "Poor as a rhino rider" is a saying in Prax.
MOROCANTH
Morocanth, in some ways, resemble the earthly tapir. But in
other ways they are, of course, unique. No doubt if they hadn't
cheated at Waha's Contest, they'd make a fine herd beast for some
human tribe. Short, bristly hairs are scattered thinly over a
morocanth's thick hide. The general form of the morocanth is narrow
in front, and thick and rounded behind. This is an excellent design
for crashing through brush, and a morocanth on the run through dense
vegetation can't even be caught by a rhino (other herd animals are
slowed down too much to be considered). Morocanth ears are thick,
erect, and not particularly mobile. They have three thick "claws" on
their front feet, perhaps better termed "hooves". Their wrists are
very mobile, and they can wrap their hoof around objects to take a
crude grip on it. They have a very short, hairless, useless tail.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: Lynne....@bhein.rel.co.uk (Clayton, Lynne)
Subject: Truestone; Ralzakark; Ragnaglar; Runic Origins; Cat Fights;
Message-ID: <9408147795....@reedel1.bhein.rel.co.uk>
Date: 14 Sep 94 14:13:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6210
From: Paul Honigmann, Oxford, UK (part the fourth + last)
================================
TRUESTONE
=========
(Since writing this I now see others have put similar comments on the
Daily:-)
- in RQ2 this was pretty useless, it stored rune magic but you
couldn't regain the spell until it was used from the stone. Now in RQ3 it's
worse than useless, in fact if I were a divine magic user I'd run a mile from
it. On the other hand, as a chaot I'd find a piece of blank truestone an
incredible treasure. Imagine mounting a piece on the edge of a weapon, like a
spear or dagger. Now hit that pesky Wind Priest who's been slaughtering your
mates. Never mind about hurting him, just touch his skin - and remember
Gloranthan armour isn't full-coverage. Suddenly, he can't cast any more rune
magic. Now run away and hide the truestone somewhere like a deep lake. You
can come back for the priest when his Shield's worn off in a few minutes...
OK, so it's pretty contrived. But if a truestone arrowhead hit *you,* and
sucked out several points of hard-won spells, you'd be pretty paranoid about
losing that stone... I wonder if you can make Truestone dust? (Simple, *all*
you need is two chunks of Adamantite to grind it between...)
RALZAKARK
=========
Here's a thought for you. The chaos god Krjalk was killed by Zorak Zoran,
but those elves in Dorastor seem to worship him. Note also how Dorastor seems
to have created its own ecology from nothing. Remind you of anything? I wonder
if the true secret of Dorastor is that it's outside Time, actually part of
the Void 'from which all things came', and reforming in the image of the
original Chaos gods.
In which case Ralzakark may not be part of Gbaji, as everyone seems to
assume, but Ragnaglar - the father of the broo race (? could be wrong there
but I'll continue anyway). If Ralzakark *was* an avatar of Ragnaglar, it
would explain his extraordinary ability to unite the broos of the area.
RAGNAGLAR, THE MAD GOD
======================
Joe Lannon asked for details on the God of Ragtime Jazz in X-RQ-ID-5869.
I had some broo in his cult in my last campaign - some Hero Broo had
resurrected him, that was going to be the PCs' next quest after they'd duffed
up Delecti. Here you are then, in True RQ2 format. None of the following is
official, of course:
Ragnaglar's form is that of a giant, two-headed broo. The two heads often
argue and can be characterised as Beavis and Butthead. Two-headed broos are
considered 'blessed by Ragnaglar' by other goatkin (and Thanatari?).
SPELLS:
CULT SPECIAL SPELL: ENHANCE CHAOS:
As one of the Unholy Trio, Rag has extra control over Chaos (like Thed has
the Rebirth of Chaos spell). He offers a 1-use, 3-point Rune spell which
doubles the effect of any chaos feature, permanently. Thus 12-point skin
becomes 24-point, etc. It can be stacked!!!!!
SMALL SYLPH - Raggie is a Storm deity. These sylphs have a random chaotic
feature each time they appear.
STORMSTRENGTH: doubles your strength for 15 minutes, even above species
maximum.
REVERSE CHAOS (from Thed)
SUMMON SPIRIT OF CHAOS, POW 3d6+6, random chaos feature
CAUSE CREEPING CHILLS (from Mallia).
ALL STANDARD 1 POINT RUNE MAGIC; DISMISS 2,3; EXTENSION 2.
No special, or forbidden, battle magics.
Membership: broo automatic lay members; other chaots easily but must be
air breathers.
Runes: Storm, Beast, Chaos.
Ragnaglar reserves an especial hatred for his brother Storm Bull. Also
hates Thanatar, who was always after his heads.
Rag the Lad is the father of the Broo race, and once he returned to
the world his reborn cult was able to *organise* broo into disciplined
regiments. The PC's kept coming across hard groups of broo soldiers bearing a
double-headed broo symbol (like the double-headed eagle of Imperial Germany),
who fought sensibly and would even run away if necessary. They never did figure
out what was going on.
WIMMIN
======
I noticed a lot of discussion recently on whether there should be more
Equal Opportunities for Wimmin in the West. May I stick my oar in & observe -
*...well, actually Paul you may not! *
*...or at least not through this node *
*TRIVIAL NON-PC,BOMBASTIC,CHAUVANISTIC AND UTTERLY BORING SECTION*
*DELETED .... for your own good, if you know what I mean....Lynne*
RUNES
=====
Someone brought up the question of where the symbols for the Runes came
from. FGS shed some light on this at Convulsion: when the Godlearners compared
the symbols for Fire, Fire/Sky, Heat, Light, etc from around Glorantha they
noticed certain similarities for similar concepts. From these they formulated
the Basic / Root / Archetypal Runes. But be warned! Different cultures might
use different symbols (runes) for the same thing, or the same rune for
different things or aspects of a thing. The Godlearners semi-unified everyone,
but they've drifted apart again in the last millenium. So don't build huge
structures of deduction on the rather shaky foundations of Runic Shapes; those
in the rulebooks are just an approximation for playability.
CAT FIGHTS
==========
Another idea. One of the things very different in ancient / medieval
cultures from our own seems to be blood sports. Badger baiting, bear baiting,
Roman gladiatorial combat, cockfighting, dogfights were all subjects for
gambling and jollity, which I think can be used to good effect to give a
background of callousness towards others and a darker, more Machiavellian
(realistic) atmosphere. My next plan for my players is for them to come across
a Lunar community where they breed huge black cats - for fighting each other!
How better to put Orlanth in his place?
SPIRITS POSSESSING DREAM DRAGONS:
=================================
I've always thought DD's were too weak. Too easy for a simple tactics to
kill. I'd rule that, like True Dragons, they were immune to Spirit Combat and
give them some immunity to spells, too - that's one reason the Dragonkill War
was so one-sided. Remember DD's are sentient, often malevolent; they should
EAT anyone trying to control them.
NICK BROOKE:
============
Thanks muchly for the hints on Kalikos. I'd no idea he was a she.
BCHUGG:(off the wall?)
=======
I have noticed your name a lot recently. Haven't heard of you
before but you talk a lot of sense. One small thing though, you seem to be
under a misapprehension; you said the other day that "we Brits" have taken
over the daily, and implied we seem insufferably smug about Tales, Convulsion
and our strong RQ base. The thing is, we never took it over - it was always
ours. RQ is, of course, a British invention, indeed Greg is in fact British.
WARNING:
========
Beware of counterfeit Gregs claiming to be American or Scandinavian.
These are simply heretical offshoots of the One True Church Of Greg (UK).
The Spoken Word is investigating allegations of mythmanagement and heresy in
this regard and will be 're-educating' any who claim otherwise.
All hail the Reaching Tentacle,
Paul Rivetloose Mann
*********** THE END...NO REALLY IT IS.... GO HOME! GO HOME! ***************
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Elmal, Yelmalio, and friends.
Message-ID: <940915051...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Sep 94 05:16:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6218
Me:
> > Asked: "Are these two gods the same", one should respond "What do
> >you mean by "the same"?"; "Who's asking the question?"; "How would one tell?"
> >and the ever-popular, "What's in it for me/you/him?".
Peter M:
> A clarification here. Of course the worshippers would regard them as being
> different gods. That is their subjective view. What I am talking about is
> the objective view which would be useful if say a lost Caladralander Lodril
> priests manages to make his way across the wastes to see the temple of Solf.
> Would he be able to regain his spells there? Yes. But if a sage asked the
> Solfties if their god was Lodril, they would say no.
But is there an "objective" view, in any meaningful sense? I'm not sure
if he would be able to regain said spell, I'm not certain how similar the
cults are. But in any case, I don't think it's a matter of Object(ive)
Identity, but of similarity of belief and religious practice, and of faith
in the True Equivalence of the particular worshipper.
> >But would a Sartarite Narri [Elmali] clansman
BTW, this is an Alexo; I should have said "Enhyli".
> > and a Praxian Sun Domer
> >agree that they worshipped the same god? I find it very unlikely. If we
> >decided they worshipped the "same" god, would this mean the former couldn't
> >DI against the latter, or that the second could Divine information about
> >the first? Not very satisfactory, in my view.
> DInformation? Presumably you mean divine intervention.
Hardly, since I just said that. Divine, verb, as in to perform a divination.
> In any case I do not
> think you could DI against other people so your conundrum does not arise. DI
> (IMO at least) is only used for enhancing your own situation not diminshing
> various attributes of others.
You can quibble about what you can do to an arbitrary person,
worshipper or not, but there's a clearly stated further restriction
about what you can't do to worshippers of the "same" god. I don't
think these manifest signs of divine similarity (or lack thereof)
(Divination, DI, spell regaining, etc) will generally, obviously, as a
rule, fly in the face og what the various worshippers _believe_ to be
the case.
> >>[The dissension in the Elmali clans]
> >Their logic isn't too unfathomable. They know that they worship the sun
> >(the thing I point to when I say "Sun"), and they know that Yelm worshippers
> >(who _obviously_ worship the sun, and there's only one sun, right?) can
> >bring Sunspears, so it must be possible.
> If there is only one sun, then please explain why the Elmali do not get
> Sunspear?
<points up in sky> How many can you see up there? The Elmali religion is
not the same as the Dara Happan cult of Yelm. There is only one sun in the
sky. Slice it any way you like.
If you're asking me this with my Sartarite Elmali hat on, I'd say something
about how Yelm was a false sun god, and that his worshippers were all evil
Illuminants who got their fire powers from chaos demons, or some such.
Yelmalions would counter-explain that Elmal's a lame-no-hoper, who denies
his Yelmic parentage (or simply doesn't have such), and hence is hosed,
Sunspearwise.
> And that Monrogh only came back with a pale shadow of Yelm rather
> than the true Yelm cult?
I was hardly saying that. I don't think it's useful to agonise about "which"
god he brought back. It was a god not unlike Elmal, who was the son of
Yelm. See David Hall's article on a plausible Yelmalion (re)construction
of a story of how It Should Have been Yelmalio All Along, and not Elmal.
> >Of course, the precise route they used to bring this about is to "discover"
> >that Yelmalio is Yelm's son, and hence his associate, therefore getting
> >said Sunspear.
> Hmm, but they worshipped Elmal to start off with, not Yelmalio. What the
> conservative elmali were complaining about IMO was the Dara Happan nature of
> the 'Antirius' cult.
The Yelmalio cult, please, if you would. They're arguing about things like
whether (Y)Elmal(io) is the son of Yelm, whether one should have shrines to
Yelm in the temples, etc. These are ultimately Dara Happan idea, yes, but
hardly require that one has door-to-door salesmen from the Antirius cult.
> >The "dispute" was settled by the two groups being physically separated so's
> >they stop beating each other up (old Sartar), and by the Yelmalions beating
> >up their local Elmali (Farpoint).
> This is david hall's intepretation. I haven't seen any sign of the Elmali in
> the Righteous Wind revolt apart from this.
If you mean that Elmali as such still exist, this is also Greg Stafford's
interpretation. I'm not clear if you're disagreeing about something else.
I don't think he's about to Greg us all by telling us _where_, since I don't
think he wants to stoke the embers of _that_ argument over much. (A guess,
not a claim of Insider Information, btw.) If anyone wants to be Alexed, though,
I think the aforementioned clan of the Coymar are still fairly unadulterated
Elmali.
> If you read back further, I did suggest an origin for Yelmalio. As for saying
> it hardly solves anything to suppose it has an elvish origin, I do not
> understand. What is there that needs to be urgently 'solve'd?
I'm not clear on that myself. What I'm saying is that I don't see the power,
or the point, of the idea that the cult was adopted from the elves, though
I suspect there is a parallel. Did the Elmali and aldryami send missionaries
to each other? How does this relate to the Dara Happan influence? What,
in short, is the Elven Yelmalio theory _for_? My own feeling is that the
(changed) name is simply the "original" one, altered to reflect his "true"
parentage by the worshippers themselves, and not actually imported from
elsewhere.
> >Couldn't disagree more. The rituals, for most purposes, _are_ the religion,
> >not a PR bolt-on.
> Hmm, we'll have a lot harder time trying to get regional variation that way.
Not at all. We're going to have a hard time getting real regional variation,
if there are hard-and-fast concrete identities between gods in different
areas, in ways which significantly effect their worshippers in obvious ways.
> I must confess my bias and state I
> see the ceremony ritual not as a uniform skill all over Glorantha but as a
> combination of traditions. Doraddi would do dances whereas the Dara Happans
> might sacrifice bulls and the Kralori meditate.
This is only an obstacle if you think that for some reason they are
ultimately worshipping exactly the same entities, and the differences in
worship must be unimportant.
Alex.
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6221: =
- Praxian Plains Animals
6222: =
- Beliefs
6223: =
- unsubscribe
6224: =
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 14 Sep 1994
6225: =
- Re: Nilses and Wind Childs.
6226: =
- Pavic teleportation.. or.. Things that aren't where they were!
6227: =
- Re: OTE/Glorantha
6229: =
- Somebody's criticism of RunePower...
6230: =
- Funky birds
6231: =
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 15 Sep 1994
6232: =
- Nick's WMMTM
6233: =
- White Bison, Prax Beasties
6234: =
- Complete Lunacy
6235: =
- RQ Merchandise, et al.
6236: =
- Basmol story
6237: =
- Last word on Yelmalio, (I hope)...
6238: =
- Sun Folk; Orlanthi
---------------------
From: JAR...@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Praxian Plains Animals
Message-ID: <9409150913.AA17031@Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 94 09:16:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6221
Hi All
Sandy - yes please send more info on Plains animals especially Rhinos.
One of my PCs has a small breeding herd of rhinos (well his wife does actually) and I would like to know all the gory facts. Gestation time, life expectancy,
mass, charge speed, ability to learn to dance and play the violin...
Cheers
Lewis
---------------------
From: Da...@snail.demon.co.uk (David Scott)
Subject: Beliefs
Message-ID: <aa9c999600015002651f@[158.152.16.30]>
Date: 15 Sep 94 10:08:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6222
Peter said;
>True, but in Glorantha, there are numinous beings in the otherworld known as
>gods. If you worship them *correctly* you will gain benefits from them. The
>religious beliefs of a culture are an attempt to worship a god or pantheon in
>such a way that it maximises the benefit that culture recieves.
I think you have to be a bit careful here as different peoples worshipping
the same god may well have different ideas about what exactly is correct.
From their view, what they are doing is correct and so any feedback they
get from their god will be correct. I don't think that cultures would
actively try to minimax their gods, as it's a bit to godlearnerish. If new
ideas enter in to their worship, they don't have to be positive benefits as
that assumes that worshippers alway get it right. Is'nt this is part of how
religions change.
I think what we have here is just a difference of opinion, I think that the
majority (95%+) of individuals who undergo initiation in Glorantha have a
direct experience related to the core being of their god(s). So Yelmalians
will have the crap beaten out of them on the Hill of Gold, Orlanthi will
get thrown into pits designed to kill them, etc. The participation in this
event is part of the shock that takes them into adulthood. After this event
anyone can rationalise these facts and realise that it could all be very
different, but I feel that the direct experience will always overide these
facts in the vast majority of people. Direct experience vs. theorised fact
which is truer, well of course i'll say direct experience :-)
> One aspiring
>hero may decide to 'bring justice to the cold sun' and goes on the Hills
>of Gold
>quest in an attempt to wrest the lightning spear of Orlanth.
Fine, this guy/gal isn't in the vast majority but he would have to get the
support of his clan for such an endevour and this maybe the hardest thing
to do. If he doesn't he risks a very difficult quest which may cause a
small group of supporters to split off...
Any thought as to how all this may arise in a clan with say 100 adults. Can
anyone think up a story around this. Along the lines of One day Big Ugh was
listening to the story of How Yelmalio was badly treated at the Hill of
Gold, he though that's not fair and starts a discussion about it with his
friends. Most promptly say that's not for the likes of us to talk about and
the rest ignore him anyway sure in the knowledge that what Yelmalio
suffered was for their good...
What Nick said
>>IMHO, Yelmalions who wanted to *win* at the Hill of Gold would be like
>>Christians who thought the Crucifixion was a bad thing, and HeroQuested/
>>time travelled back to Judaea with a ladder and a claw-hammer to stop it
>>from happening.
I must agree here as well. We have a very good example of this in the UK
right at this moment. A retired polititian/schoolar has just retranslated
some bits of the bible and come up with the startling fact that Jesus was
in fact stoned by the Jews. However nobody seems to have taken the
slightest bit of notice (as far as I can tell). I don't think he will try
to re-enact his new findings as some sort of passion play and even if he
did people would still think that he is some kind of doddering old fool.
This seems to be the sort of thing that Gloranthan heroes are up against.
Sandy said about Nick's quote
> Spot on. In the heroquest as I have written it, while it is
>possible to "win" and thus retain your fire powers, this _does_ have
>the alarming side effect of NOT being able to gain immortality.
>Fireblade -- immortality. You be the judge.
Any chance of seeing your quest on the digest? Perhaps it would give us
pointers as to how easy it is to change myth in a gaming environment.
BTW Sandy, I liked the plains animal info - any more?
David
---------------------
From: 047T...@witsvma.wits.ac.za
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <9409151030.AA24659@Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 94 10:31:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6223
unsub list 047t...@witsvma.wits.ac.za
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 14 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <940915114...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 94 12:41:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6224
Sandy:
> Rhino riders tend to live in open groups. A clan will
>normally graze over an immense area, the rhinos scattered thinly.
They don't tend to meet Morocanth very often then...
--
Henk | Henk.La...@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
| x15338 -- ask me about /etc/rc2.d/S80lpconfig
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Nilses and Wind Childs.
Message-ID: <940915121...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 94 13:19:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6225
Alex Ferguson:
>Just wait until some Norwegian chap called "Rune" joins the list, and
>we start discussing whether he has two Rune Runes, or as the Original
>Origin, has a Rune Rune and an Infinity Rune. Then you'll all be sorry.
Why wait? He's a subscriber already...
--
Henk | Henk.La...@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
| x15338 -- ask me about /etc/rc2.d/S80lpconfig
---------------------
From: lo...@hops.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller)
Subject: Re: OTE/Glorantha
Message-ID: <9409151510.AA22472@Sun.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 94 07:11:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6227
phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden) writes:
> With the right players (ie those who knew the world quite well - not what
> Duncan said he was wanting to run last time we spoke) I think OTE, with
> it's very quick and fluid mechanics could work - its a step towards
> systemless for those who still hanker after systems. The problem would be
> that EVERYONE would wind up with skills like:
>
> Sword of Humakt (4d6) in their best slot, and they'd all look the same.
Do all the players in your game choose Humakti with tons of Geasa and
Gifts now? Why not? It would make them fearsome fighters indeed. They
would be undefeatable.
I think that OTE would work for Glorantha because in Glorantha players
have reasons to choose non-fighting characters. They can succeed as
trader-priests, as sorcerors, as lunar tax-collectors, as renegade
brewers, as chalana arroy priestesses, as yelmic stuffed-shirts, as
sons of nobles who are out of the line of succession, as hopeful
administrators, as ship captains, and all sorts of things that don't
require such specialized war skills.
My current crew of Carmanian troublemakers of the House Osanai
includes:
1. sorceror's apprentice (Carm. Orthodox)
2. tongue-tied hunter/warrior (Carm. Orthodox)
3. naturally gifted warrior/wildman (Valind)
4. female cross-dressing soldier (Yelm)
5. frighteningly single-minded killing machine (Humakt, lots of Gifts)
6. foreign hireling, a female healer from Brolia (Chalana Arroy)
Even in a fairly combat-intensive wilderness-chase scenario the
dominant characters are the sorceror's apprentice and the healer. This
does not say to me that fighting characters dominate Gloranthan
roleplaying. That's why I don't think that an easily abused system
like OTE would promote all-warrior campaigns in Glorantha, certainly
not any more than RQ's emphasis on fighting skills and rules already
do.
> OTE is a game in which not everyone will be a fighter, and in a world
> dominated by warriors it would loose some of it's appeal.
My solution is to NOT emphasize warriors in my game.
> Incedentally I think there's an OTE/Glorantha thread on
> rec.games.frp.misc, but I'm not a member at present.
Right. In fact, this thread is an echo of it.
--
Loren Miller <lo...@hops.wharton.upenn.edu>
I can tell by your shoes that you are a lover of liberty
---------------------
From: flet...@u.washington.edu (Brent Krupp)
Subject: Somebody's criticism of RunePower...
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9409150...@hardy.u.washington.edu>
Date: 15 Sep 94 02:52:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6229
> From: Lynne....@bhein.rel.co.uk (Clayton, Lynne)
> Message-ID: <9408147795....@reedel1.bhein.rel.co.uk>
> Date: 14 Sep 94 13:42:32 GMT
> X-RQ-ID: 6203
> Continued From: Paul Honigmann, Oxford, UK
> ===========================================
> 2. If everyone could fire whatever spells they wanted whenever they wished,
> - assuming they have recharged their pool - then EVERY Orlanthi will use
> almost EXACTLY the same spells in a given situation. Ie: commit everything
> to a huge Shield, Thunderbolt or Teleport out of there. The same goes for
> all other cults. Result: you can predict almost exactly what a rune magic
> user will do in combat, as long as you know his approximate age so you
> can guess what his Rune Magic budget is likely to be, and cult.
This is a very silly objection. Because RunePower makes spell-casting more
flexible, everyone is really predictable? Huh? Flexibility = Flexibility.
There are still lots of tactical options, and if you can guess what
someone will cast, you can as easily guess what someone will have
sacrificed for over the years. Besides, RunePower makes Dismiss Magic more
readily availavle, so as to cancel out others' magic. That's a definite
*addition* to the posssible options in Rune-level combat.
> 3. It's powergaming.
Ah, yes, this makes *so* much sense. Let's arbitrarily assign a
self-defined word to something we don't like. *Please*. Have you even read
the original RunePower write-up? (it's at soda) It is argued for in
GLORANTHAN terms -- not from a mechanical standpoint.
Brent Krupp (flet...@u.washington.edu)
---------------------
From: ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Funky birds
Message-ID: <940915192...@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 15 Sep 94 23:29:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6230
Alex wrote:
> Until the Theyalans contacted the Dara Happans, they had no reason to make
> any en masse feathered creatures -> sky gods -> bad association. I'm sure
> many bird types are regarded as "good" by Sartarites, even in the present
> (indeed, some are clan totems), though latter-day Orlanthi cult strictures
> might lead one to think otherwise. Mind you, I'd like to see some funky
> Wind Child myths too if anyone has any keen ideas.
OK, I've been workin for 12+ hours straight on, so I'm tired enough to
make up something really idiotic:
In ancient times some humans bred with big birds. Some of the offspring
were wise and worhsipped mighty Orlanth. Some of them weren't so smart,
so they worshipped Eurmal instead. The Orlanth worshippers became the
beautiful wind children, gifted with air powers by the storm god. Eurmal
being the trickster, didn't gift his worshippers with anything, instead
he played a trick on them: they became the ducks.
/Nils W (the One True, and I actually have a rune, sort of, which I use
to sign 'works of art' for example)
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 15 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <940915203...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 15 Sep 94 08:31:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6231
Dblizzard:
>Under Sandy's structure the only use of [truestone] is as a device
>to give the players a spell they normally wouldn't be able to cast.
It is a way to pool magic power, and to leave it behind when
you die, so that your spells aren't lost to the temple.
Paul Honigmann (or is it Lynnn Clayton?) successfully verbalizes my
own feelings about why I dislike the Rune Pool:
>1. half the fun of Rune Magic is agonising over what to sacrifice
>for
>2. EVERY Orlanthi will use almost EXACTLY the same spells in a
>given situation.
>3. It's powergaming.
'Nuff said, for me.
Joerg B.
>Who says that the Sartarite herders don't use the peaceful cut when
>they slaughter their cattle or sheep? The earth cults seem to do so
>on swine (otherwise the Bloody Cut of the Tusk Riders wouldn't have
>been that offensive).
Me. Here goes: The Sartarite Herders Don't Use Peaceful Cut
When They Slaughter Their Beasts. How's that?
If they do say a little prayer over their animal killings,
it's not as ritualized as the Praxian system (which is a _spell_, for
crying out loud). The Bloody Cut is something different entirely --
it actually traps the animal's soul and keeps it from recycling. Even
if you don't think the Peaceful Cut is necessary, that doesn't mean
you'd approve of the horrible Bloody Cut under any circumstances
whatsoever.
---------------------
From: 10010...@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: Nick's WMMTM
Message-ID: <940915194053_100...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 15 Sep 94 19:40:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6232
Hi all,
Nick, I would very much like to read you Esrolian WMMTM here on the Daily.
Or some of your Carmanian material.
Or some more folk tales...
<g>
******
Greg Fried mentions the White Buffalo in Wisconsin (Wa? Wi? Wo? Sorry, I'm a
Brit). I used a similar theme for the first scenario in my Prax campaign about
18 mths ago. It was vaguely inspired by the White Buffalo myth of the
Amerindians.
Basically, the clan Daka Fal shaman learned from his travels on the spirit plain
that a Golden Bison had emerged from the Eiritha hills. Since the beast was
Golden and a Bison all sorts of people wanted it. The Yelmalions, the Storm
Bulls, the Bison tribe and just about every clan on the plains that could trade
the thing with any of the preceeding three groups. The PC's had to find it,
keep it (and retrieve it once they had lost it) and then take it to the Block at
their Khan's behest to trade it for Truestone to be used in the next quest he
had in mind for them (but that's another story).
All good fun, not least of which was my Zebra riding PC's trying to pass off a
badly dyed Golden Bison calf as being the very sort of thing that any
self-respecting bunch of Zebra braves would troll around with.
******
All the best,
Peter
---------------------
From: carl...@wdni.com (Carlson, Pam)
Subject: White Bison, Prax Beasties
Message-ID: <2E78...@emssmtp.msm.weyer.com>
Date: 15 Sep 94 21:11:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6233
Greg Fried write about the white bison:
> but the legend of the Lakota Sioux was that White
>Buffalo Woman would return as a white buffalo to signal a great turn of
>fortune for the Sioux people -- and for humanity as a whole.
I heard roughly the same on National Public Radio earlier this week. The
words "harbinger of world peace" were mentioned.
>Ideas for RQ scenario, anyone?! A white buffalo is born to a mother who
has
>been taken prison by the Sables ... who are SURE it should be RED.... and
are
>going about a heroquest to make it so..... Your Bison clan to the rescue!
Well, as I'm sure y'all know, I'm already reffing four young bison riders
chasing around the Wastes after a white bison calf. This real world story
is kinda handy, as I'm as yet uncertain just what this calf signifies for
Prax. (So far, it just appears in dreams and pleads for help.) I'm not
sure Praxians would get all exited about world peace, however.
Wasn't Argrath referred to as a "White Bull" at one point?
Of course, the calf's immediate goal is not to become Basmoli Burgers - and
then Morokanth Menu, and then Lunar Lunch...
**************
My bison riders never miss a role-playing opportunity. While visiting an
oasis, they demanded all the luxuries: meat, veggies, beer, women.
(Ishinta, the Eritha initate, was disgusted). The oasis folk resentfully
trotted out their nomad cross women, who I figured would be the lowest
status women there, and would be expected to fill the occasional role of
prostitues. Braxas fell for his oasis woman, who, being of such low status,
was only too happy to leave with him. Kharamina knows what to do with a
turnip, and has learned how to take care of the bison. She also knows more
World Lore than any of the party, due to her experience with visitors. Now
Braxas wants to buy her armor, and is terribly preoccupied with keeping her
safe in combat. The rest of the party, resentful, wants to use her as bait!
Sandy - thanks for the Praxian herds info. Now to sit down with a map and
figure out where everybody tends to frequent.
I've been thinking about the Basmoli lately, and collecting input from those
intrepid lion fans Brian Maloney and Chris Wehman. I've put Basmoli in the
wastes, frequenting rocky outcrops and foothills for much the same reason
Morokanth do - protection from riders. My Wastes have big rocks, like the
kopjes of the Serengetti plains, or the jebels of Arabia. Basmoli like to
live in them for shelter and for the views of potential prey. Sound
plausible?
---------------------
From: 10027...@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Complete Lunacy
Message-ID: <940916002556_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 16 Sep 94 00:25:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6234
DH>> How can any of this waffle help me GM or play the damn game?
AF> Straw man, since only a Complete Loonie (hi Nick?) would even attempt
AF> to play a game in Dara Happa (latter day or otherwise)...
Nah, not me... at least, not until I've run a Pendragonesque generation-
jumping theologically-volatile History of Carmania (with lots of DH bits
thrown in {like they really were} for good measure)...
Mind you, I may yet get to be Dara Happan Emperor at the Broken Council!
Full proskyneses all round, my loyal subjects.
AF> I noticed the Karandoli being exterminated twice
Not as bad as poor old Dorestadt (sp?) in the ninth century: this little
town was completely destroyed by the Vikings three times in four years, if
memory and chronicles serve. Makes you wonder why they kept going back.
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: drc...@stern.nyu.edu (David Cheng)
Subject: RQ Merchandise, et al.
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.2.779...@sales.stern.nyu.edu>
Date: 16 Sep 94 03:03:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6235
Hello all! It's been a while since I've posted anything of note. I can
hardly keep up with the Daily as it is, I fear. Let me crank out a little
post before school swallows me up for good.
RUNEPOWER
I am delighted by the recent discussio, and I feel bad about not jumping in
to more actively defend my beliefs. Now that Tales #12 is shipping in the
US, I hope to see even more folks ready to tar and feather me for the
blasphemy I spout. Thanks to all the folks who've sent me individual
comments. I apologize for not getting back to you on them.
RUNEQUEST-CON I MERCHANDISE
Yes, we still have a full catalog of stuff. Here it is...
The RuneQuest-Con Merchandise Catalog
=====================================
Last Update: September 15, 1994
I've got the following RQ-Con Merchandise still
available.
* The RuneQuest-Con Program Book *
= 40 Pages (7" x 8.5")
= 3 Gloranthan Essays by Greg Stafford, Stephen Martin, and
David Hall. Lots on the Elmal/Yelmalio schism.
= Essays by Sandy Petersen, Prof. M.A.R. Barker, and David Cheng
= International Directory of about 130 RQ-Con Attendees
Find fellow gamers in your area!
* $6 + $1 Shipping
- I have about three dozen of these left
* The Rough Guide to Boldhome
= 28 pages with a laminated stock Dan Barker cover
= Invaluable reference on the Sartarite city of Boldhome
Most of the material in here has not been published anywhere
else.
* $10 + $2 Shipping
- I have less than 10 of these left
* Real Lunar Coins
= Minted in a lead-free alloy
= EWF Wrym on one side, Red Goddess riding the Crimson Bat
"All Hail the Reaching Moon" on the other.
* $2 + $0.50 Shipping each
- If you buy in multiples of 5, I'll give you a discount
Tell me how many you want and we'll talk specifics.
- I've got about 100 of these left
* The RuneQuest-Con Compendium
= 92 Pages (!) with a Dan Barker cover
= 7 stories from the "Orlanthi Storytelling Contest"
= 20 Home of the Bold narratives
= 35 pages of seminar transcripts
* The Sixty Questions at the Gloranthan Lore Auction
* Stafford speaking for an hour on HeroQuesting
* The Nick Brooke Cultural Exchange
* Live Action Role Playing
= MOB's report on Live-Action Trollball
* $15 + $3 Shipping
- I've got over 100 of these left, but orders are still
coming in pretty steadily.
Payment for items:
@ All checks made out to "David Cheng" please.
@ All payments in US funds please.
@ First paid first served - I cannot hold items.
@ Send your payment to:
David Cheng
313 East 85th Street, Apt 2C
New York, NY 10028
(212) 472-7752 [Before 12 midnight EDT]
Feel free to contact me with any questions
* David Cheng
drc...@sales.stern.nyu.edu < or > ch...@io.com
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: PMic...@aol.com
Subject: Basmol story
Message-ID: <9409152331...@aol.com>
Date: 16 Sep 94 03:31:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6236
A few people have asked me (off the Daily) to post this. I know it's been on
before, but I get the impression that there are a fair number of folks who
are on now who haven't seen it. My apologies to those of you who have seen
it before.
Peace,
Peter
The Death of Basmol
(as told by a Basmoli woman of Prax)
In the beginning Basmol lived far away from here. He was the
child of his mother Mikyh, daughter of Yanmorla, and his father
Yelm, son of Cronisper. He was chosen to be chieftain of all
the animals in the world. After his father was killed, Basmol
kept the world alive by separating the weak and dying from the
strong and healthy. This was how Basmol fought the Bad Ones,
by killing those who could not be healed. This is who Basmol
was. The chieftain who kills the sick and weak to keep the
world strong.
Basmol heard a great cry from far away. It was Eiritha
Earth-daughter, the herd mother, who was crying "The Bad
Ones hurt me and I am dying! Please, come end my pain!"
Basmol knew that he must go and help her.
Eiritha was asking to die, and said, "You must be careful, for I
have many family members here. My sisters have failed to
heal me. My husband, brothers, and children will fight to keep
you from me. You must be careful, for there are many Bad Ones
here."
Basmol said "I do not fear," and he gathered up many of his
children and came here to this place, now called Prax. This is
who we were. The dutiful children who followed our father.
Orani Earthbrother was the first person to fight Basmol in
Prax. Basmol slew him at the place now called Orani's
Mistake*. Orani's mistake was in thinking that stopping
Basmol was a good thing. He was wrong. This is who Orani
was. The Earthbrother who made a bad mistake and was slain
by Basmol.
While Orani and Basmol fought, Tada Earthson had his people
bury Eiritha alive. Trapped beneath the earth, Eiritha was
unable to send her scents of blood and fear or her cries of pain
to Basmol. This is who Tada was. The Earthson who stopped
Basmol from keeping the world strong.
Stormbull Earth-husband was the second person to fight
Basmol in Prax. Basmol fought him in a great battle which
raged across the whole of Prax. Their anger was the equal to
one another, and neither could hurt the other. Basmol heard
the cries of Eiritha's children who could not find their mother.
Their souls walked the world in a bad way, and so Basmol left
the meaningless fight with Stormbull and went to end their
pain. Stormbull hid himself then, and used secret magic to
make a son in his wife's buried womb. This is who Stormbull
is. The Earth-husband who cared nothing for his wife's pain
and used bad magic on her.
Waha Butcher was the last person to fight Basmol in Prax.
Waha learned secrets from his father Stormbull and from the
Bad Spirit Mallia. Waha used Mallia's magic to weaken Basmol,
used Stormbull's magic to kill Basmol, and then used his own
magic to steal Basmol's magic. He used Basmol's magic to
learn the Peaceful Cut and to make the Covenant of the Eaters
and Eaten. This is who Waha is. The Butcher who killed
Basmol and stole his birthright.
The burial of Eiritha, the creation of Waha, and the killing of
Basmol, all these things helped to bring Ragnaglar Evil One
into the world. This is who we are now; the children of
Basmol who live on without our family. This is who we are
now; the children of Basmol who survive in the land of our
enemies. This is who we are now; the children of Basmol who
kill all those who brought the Evil One into the world.
_______________________
*The Praxian nomads say the area called Orani's Mistake got
it's name in this way: while fighting Basmol, Orani accepted
the lion-god's surrender and turned his back on him. Basmol
then leapt on Orani's back and broke his neck. Orani's mistake
was in trusting Basmol not to fight.
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Sun Folk; Orlanthi
Message-ID: <1994091606...@radiomail.net>
Date: 16 Sep 94 06:41:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6238
Alex tried to answer the question
>> If there is only one sun, then please explain why the Elmali do not get
>> Sunspear?
by stating
>If you're asking me this with my Sartarite Elmali hat on, I'd say something
>about how Yelm was a false sun god, and that his worshippers were all evil
>Illuminants who got their fire powers from chaos demons, or some such.
>Yelmalions would counter-explain that Elmal's a lame-no-hoper, who denies
>his Yelmic parentage (or simply doesn't have such), and hence is hosed,
>Sunspearwise.
I think the answer would be somewhat different. Elmal is from the Fire
Tribe, hence his association with the Sun. Of course, everyone knows
Orlanth had to kill the Evil Emperor, and then convinced him to do the
proper thing, travel through the sky aloofly leaving the lower world to
Orlanth and his kin, while Elmal loyally guarded the stead. But just as
there's more than one Wind god, there's more than one Fire god. There are
bad winds and (mostly) good winds. There are bad fire gods and (a few) good
ones. If having Sunspear makes you into an arrogant, pompous stuffed shirt,
then it's a good thing Elmal doesn't have it.
Joerg thinks that grain goddesses and land goddesses are different
entities; apparently Mr Baumgartner needs to take another look at the
Prospaedia: "Each region .. has its own special grain or land goddess." I
take the "or" not to mean they have one or they have the other, but that
you can call her one or call her the other. Also, the bold title above is
"queens of the land." They appear always to be both.
Paul Honigmann says
>The trouble with Storm Bull and Orlanthi characters - who seem to comprise
>the majority of PC's - is that they have to be extremists in a Gloranthan
>game. There's always something that has to be fought
Aside from pedantically taking this opportunity to point out that plurals
never use an apostrophe (PC's means "of the player character"), I don't
find this to be true. Agharl, my Orlanthi, is more concerned about running
a stead in Riskland. This mostly means trying to AVOID fighting, since
there are a lot more bad guys than there are of us. Agharl has found
support not in the cult, but from society -- our stead has helped the clan
chief, and we occasionally get some help back.
Orlanth is such an all-encompassing cult that I don't see it as extreme in
the slightest. Sure, extremists are members, but they're a minority.
---------------------
From: T.J....@soton.ac.uk (T.J.Minas)
Subject: Pavic teleportation.. or.. Things that aren't where they were!
Message-ID: <1994091513...@willow.soton.ac.uk>
Date: 15 Sep 94 15:29:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6226
Greetings all! (or "Ho! Brother Death! as the Humakti might say!)
A few topics this time around, in no especial order:-
Hyena/Trickster etc
===================
I don't think Hyena is the Praxian Trickster, my reading of
Nomad Gods implies that Genert _CREATED_ Hyena specifically to
eat him and save him from being consumed by Chaos.
Incidentally, from a private source I have (An unpublished
version of Praxpak) the following paragraph appears under the entry
in the bestairy for Hyena:
"Hyenas are a famous aspect of the desert. They can make the
night hideous with their humourless laughing call. All the tribes
of Prax keep outriders working all night to protect their herds,
partly to prevent herd-thieves from the other tribes, but primarily
to ward off Hyenas."
Thus it would seem that Hyenas are hunters and rather vicious
rather than Trickster like so much.
Truestones
==========
First up: Casting your spells into a blank truestone and
losing them forever? I don't think so. See CoP, p64, Biturian casts
"all of [his] Rune Power for a week and all of [his] Power for
a day." Later, he regains his Path Watch spell (that he had put
into the stone) obviously after the Questing CA priestess had cast
it.
So, what happens when you cast your spells into a Truestone?
They go into the stone, you lose the use of them until they are
cast from the stone, when you may go and pray to regain them.
Effectively, whilst in the stone, the spells are "in use", and
you may NEVER regain any spell that is still "in use" (Thus if
you have cast Warding on an area, you can't go and regain the use
of that Warding spell whilst it is still in effect).
Remember, you cannot (as I understand it) just cast _SOME_
of your Runespells into a truestone, (Unless you are immensely
powerful in terms of Willpower) but instead, cast ALL your divine
magic into the stone, strike rank by strike rank, until you have
cast all your spells. Probably this only applies if you actually
touch the stone with bare fingers/skin, or maybe try attuning to
it etc.
Second point. Biturian casts "all [his] Power for a day" into
a truestone. IE puts all his MP into it. Do blank Truestones
therefore act as MP storage crystals, with a capacity set by how
many MP are put into them in the first place?
Third point. Truestone is (as someone said) part of the Block,
ie the Spike, ie Law incarnate. Can't see ANY Chaotic being even
being able to handle it, it probably burns them (much as Iron does
Uz and Aldyami). Also, if you recall, any piece of Truestone
ignores all Magical protection on the target (Shield, Countermagic
etc) and whomps straight through to hurt him. It IS rather more
useful than a Divine Matrix, as well as a lot more prestigious,
if you ask me.
A Fourth Point. If I, as an Orlanthi, find a Truestone on
a Lunar corpse (whom I have just made so!), and discover that it
has an Excommunication spell therein, can I use this spell to
excommunicate Lunars or Orlanthi? If the former, oh, what jollity,
look out Mr Lunar! (Hey Sor-Eel, can you be Governor if you aren't
an initiate?) If the latter, you mean that I have just used the
Divine power of the Red Goddess to Excommunicate an Orlanthi???!!!
Hmmm!!!!!!
Six Stones Heroquest
====================
David Cowling requested info on this and Alebard's Quest.
All are mentioned in Wyrm's Footnotes writeups. I believe that
the Six Stones Ritual is a 1pt Ceremony spell (In RQ3 terms) that
translates you to the banks of the River Styx in the Underworld.
Can't recall any other details without digging out my WF's from
the bottom of the box that they lie in.
Bless Crops
===========
(Not AGAIN, everyone says) Just a comment. If you seem to
need Bless Crops to grow stuff in Genertela, how come the Malkioni
haven't starved yet after 1620 years without Bless Crops?
Troll Humakti
=============
Simon Hibbs enquired about these guys and what Humakt was
doing in the Underworld to find Death.
Well, as I recall, the reason that the Sazdorf clan have a
bunch of Humakti Trolls (The Day Watch, almost sounds like a
soap opera series!) is that the Zorak Zoran trolls in the clan
challenged a group of Human Humakti who were visiting and lost!
(It's in Wyrm's Footnotes again, in the "Saga of the Temple of
the wooden Sword" I think) As a result, the trolls, always
appreciating strength, opted to worship Humakt rather than ZZ.
As for Humakt wanderiong in the depths of Subere's darkness,
remember, at the time, he was one of the rebellious Storm Gods,
always sticking their noses (and other things!) where they weren't
especially welcomed or wanted!
Yelornans
=========
A few comments on the long selection of Yelornan things to
do:-
The Unicorn Tribe has a considerable number of Yelornan
worshippers, and most of them turn up in Pavis (well the Rubble)
for the High Holy Day ceremony each year. Get to know them.
Lunar friendly suggestions. I doubt it. In Pavis, the
Yelornans bash Lunar silver coins into lumps of silver, then re
stamp them as "Stars", their own silver coins! The Lunars do not,
unsurprisingly, appreciate this!
As for the theory "you've got a good excuse to be out at
night" try that one on the Night Watch in Pavis afetr Curfew and
see where it gets you! So much for the "I'll be the thieves
lookout" role! And I don'ty think you'll find many Light cultists
wanting very much to with thieves anyway!
They are friendly to Elves, CA and Yelmalio, though, also
Humakt to some extent. The ideas on a "sisterhood" I think are
reasonable too. In fact, given that Unicorn riders have to be
celibate, I suspect that a number of them are Lesbians. (Actually,
this is probably more a case of "they are lesbians because of their
stuation" rather than anything else. The unicorn tribe is all
female, so I would expect many of the young girls growing up there
to see lesbian relationships as the normal thing, and to downplay
the Yelm patriachal model)
Incidentally, that comment probably applies to Babeestor Gor
too. Of whom I think there are none in Prax. The Paps has its own
unique Guardians (Serpent headed women, or women headed serpents,
i can't recall which!)
I can't realistially see them admiring Troll society. After
all, most humans don't know that Trolls are ruled by women, and
assume (once they see all those ZZ Death Lords and KL Kaarg's
Sons) that it is a patriachal society like most human ones.
The point about not trying to make too many enemies is a good
one though. Your cult is small and not very powerful, has few real
friends, and is always vulnerable. If people really want me to,
I'll dig out the old RQ" Yelorna writeup, and update it to the
Daily.
Ygg's Isles Humakti
===================
These certainly exist, see G:CotHW. The Ygg's Isles character
generation section says that they worship the Orlanth pantheon.
Thus, I think the idea of "Valkyrie" like Sword maidens swooping
down to collect the fallen Humakti to the Einherjar stands.
Pavic teleportation
===================
No, this is not some strange new Rune spell! What it is,
however, is a comment based on looking at the Nomad Gods map again
and reading certain passages in RoC. On the NG map, the city of
New Pavis (2 hexes!) is SOUTH of the Zola Fel and WEST of the
Rubble. In RoC/Pavis etc, it is NORTH of the Zola Fel and EAST
of the Rubble! What gives? See also p16 RoC, where it states "They
[the nomads] lost many rights because of the fight, for they no
longer have a member upon the council, nor may they ever camp on
the SOUTH (My capitals) of the river within 30 km of Pavis." Why
the limit on camping on the south of the river if the city is to
the north? There was no bridge next to New Pavis until the Lunars
built it, so that wasn't a worry. AND the nomad camp is, in fact,
just opposite New Pavis, on the south side of the river, in all
the maps etc. Surely this reference would make sense if New pavis
was on the south side of the river. As it is, banning them from
the north side of the river would make a lot more sense! And please
don't say it's an old historical thing, the nomad plot that lost
them all these rights was in 1572!
On a related note, in NG, the Sun Dome Temple is also north
and east of the Zola Fel!
And does anyone have any idea about those mountains in North
pent, shown on the Genertela map, that aren't actually there!??
Pol Joni
========
According to the G:CotHW books, the Pol Joni number about
Five thousand. This makes them smaller than the independent tribes
(I would say) yet they manage 6 counters (and 3 magicians!) in
WB&RM/DP to the independents 1 counter each in NG. And my private
copy of Praxpak implies that there are more like FIFTY thousand.
Anybody out there have any answers on this one?
Also, the G:CotHW Wastelands chart ignores the population
of the Rubble, and of Sun County, as well as grossly
underestimating the numbers of the Pol Joni and the independents
etc. As there seems to be reasonable interest in Praxian matters,
what say we revise that chart and produce a new set of figures
for the Wastelands?
Whew! I'm finally done!
Tim Minas saying "May your Sword never lose its edge"
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6239: =
- rewop enuR
6240: =
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 15 Sep 1994, part 1
6241: =
- Instead of Yelmalio (ptah!) how about Lodril?
6242: =
- Re: Dorestad
6243: =
- Wimpstones?
6244: =
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 16 Sep 1994
6245: =
- Truestone, No, No, No.
6246: =
- Mind the Oranges Marlon!
6247: =
- Questions (and confessions)
6248: =
- Gustbran
6249: =
- The return of the Bless Crops debate from Hell
6250: =
- Carmanians.
6251: =
- The Basmol Story
6252: =
- A less "in-character" commentary to the Basmol story.
6253: =
- Elmal and Yelmalio
6254: =
- various animals & riders; elves
6255: =
- Spells in a truestone
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: rewop enuR
Message-ID: <01HH6T3GU...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 17 Sep 94 03:56:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6239
G'day
_________
RunePower
Paul Honigmann:
> 2. If everyone could fire whatever spells they wanted whenever they wished,
> - assuming they have recharged their pool - then EVERY Orlanthi will use
> almost EXACTLY the same spells in a given situation. Ie: commit
everything
> to a huge Shield, Thunderbolt or Teleport out of there. The same goes for
> all other cults. Result: you can predict almost exactly what a rune magic
> user will do in combat, as long as you know his approximate age so you
> can guess what his Rune Magic budget is likely to be, and cult.
A lot of ground has been covered in the RunePower debate a while back, so
I don't want to go into great detail here...
Having actually playtested RunePower, I can assure you that Paul's concerns
didn't arise. In fact, the effect is the exact opposite: by giving
PCs flexibility, they are able to use a much wider variety of spells than
if they have to pick 'n choose with their precious POW points when sacrificing
for divine spells using the official rules . How many PCs do you know
that sacrificed for Wind Words, Paul?
_____________
White Buffalo
>Ideas for RQ scenario, anyone?!
Of course, a similar white *rhino* features in that amazing tournament
"Seven Mothers do 'ave 'em (Amazon Women of the Red Moon)" by fellow Aussies
John Hughes, et. al. May be played at RQ Con II (BYO Rubber Chicken).
Cheers
MOB
---------------------
From: Dev...@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 15 Sep 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <9409160414...@aol.com>
Date: 16 Sep 94 08:14:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6240
Devin here:
While eagerly reading my TOTRM 12, I noticed in the Granite Phalanx writeup
that certain officers can get the spell of MoonSpear from their Lunar
connection. Pray tell kind sirs and ladies....what doth this spell do?
Also, loved Warhamster and the Medicine Bundle Step Ladder. I hope, frankly,
to one day see all of the counters from Nomad Gods fully explained in RQ
terms.
Devin
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Instead of Yelmalio (ptah!) how about Lodril?
Message-ID: <01HH71YZV...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 17 Sep 94 10:09:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6241
David Scott
===========
>>True, but in Glorantha, there are numinous beings in the otherworld known as
>>gods. If you worship them *correctly* you will gain benefits from them. The
>>religious beliefs of a culture are an attempt to worship a god or pantheon in
>>such a way that it maximises the benefit that culture recieves.
>I think you have to be a bit careful here as different peoples worshipping
>the same god may well have different ideas about what exactly is correct.
Fair enough. By 'correctly', I mean to successfully performed the rites
to worship the god. It is my belief that there is no one true way to
worship a god. Lodril indead has a good many modes of worship
ie Solf: Drunken Stupour
Deshlotralas: Conquerer of the Underworld.
Gustbran: God of Smiths.
Lodril the traitor: Dara Hapan circumsicion myths.
Oakfed: Holy Pyromanical purifier.
Vent: The Volcano.
Mahome: The hearthfire.
Ghelotralas: Messenger to below.
Lodril helotus: Peasants God
Burning Spear: the Sky Spear
Lodril pamaltelas: Ruler of Pamalt.
All these are correct ways to worship Lodril. Oakfed et al are
significantly different for quibbling god learners to classify them
as sub cults but the others are valid ways of describing lodril. But
none of them are more correct than the other.
>From their view, what they are doing is correct and so any feedback they
>get from their god will be correct. I don't think that cultures would
>actively try to minimax their gods, as it's a bit to godlearnerish.
Agreed. maximizing the benefit the god gives was an objective description
of the myths that a culture has. The cult would only actively promote
the myths that offer it solutions to its problems. ie if Lodrilite
peasantry in the Redlands were oppressed by Pentish nomads, they would be
more likely to promote the myth of the Burning spear instead of the myth
of Solf.
I hope this clears a lot of things up.
-Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Dorestad
Message-ID: <940916121...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 16 Sep 94 13:17:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6242
Nick Brooke:
>AF> I noticed the Karandoli being exterminated twice
>Not as bad as poor old Dorestadt (sp?) in the ninth century: this little
>town was completely destroyed by the Vikings three times in four years, if
>memory and chronicles serve. Makes you wonder why they kept going back.
Probably because it was one of the few places where you could actually
build anything to last. Vikings notwithstanding.
The Low Countries have had a notorious reputation for consisting
of either forest, marsh or water. Not many really dry places...
In fact, there's still a town near the place where Dorestad used
to be (not far from where I live...) named "Wijk bij Duurstede".
I also learned that ultimately, the harbours of the town
got filled with sand and mud, and after extending the quays
every couple of years, they just didn't bother to keep up
and trade moved to other towns...
--
Henk | Henk.La...@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
| x15338 -- ask me about /etc/rc2.d/S80lpconfig
---------------------
From: jonas....@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Wimpstones?
Message-ID: <940916122...@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 16 Sep 94 16:27:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6243
T.J.Minas in X-RQ-ID: 6226
> So, what happens when you cast your spells into a Truestone?
>They go into the stone, you lose the use of them until they are
>cast from the stone, when you may go and pray to regain them.
>Effectively, whilst in the stone, the spells are "in use", and
>you may NEVER regain any spell that is still "in use"
Yes, I know, but I still feel that with the existence of Matrixes,
truestone just becomes a relatively cheap way to create big divine spell
matrixes - and these stones/matrixes are deeply flawed in that they can't
regenerate spells on their own the way normal matrixes can.
> Second point. Biturian casts "all [his] Power for a day" into
>a truestone. IE puts all his MP into it. Do blank Truestones
>therefore act as MP storage crystals, with a capacity set by how
>many MP are put into them in the first place?
I would assume so. CoP also mentions Sages storing "knowledge" in them,
whatever that means.
>It IS rather more
>useful than a Divine Matrix, as well as a lot more prestigious,
>if you ask me.
Well, not if you ask me: I would never _throw_ my most prestigious magic
item at some mangy broo!
As I've implied before, I want Truestones to just 'freeze' cast spells,
keep them in Stasis (closely related to Law) if you will, until they are
called for. This would mean that the person filling the stone _has_ cast
the spell (and can thus regain it as normal), it just hasn't taken effect
yet. This modification makes truestone really fearsome, some might even say
'gross', but I would also make it much more scarce than some people seem to
be assuming. I mean, I would never let a _player_character_ get his/her
grubby hands on something like this!
> A Fourth Point. If I, as an Orlanthi, find a Truestone on
>a Lunar corpse (whom I have just made so!), and discover that it
>has an Excommunication spell therein, can I use this spell to
>excommunicate Lunars or Orlanthi?
Neither, I'd say. Excommunication isn't just a spell IMO, the deity checks
if it's being performed by someone with appropriate cult status and a good
reason, since losing a worshipper is always a bad thing and no god wants a
decrease in power just because some priest has a personal vendetta against
an initiate.
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 16 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <940916173...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 16 Sep 94 05:33:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6244
Rhinos:
To repeat some of the bare biological facts about these beasties:
Breeding occurs throughout the year, but mating peaks happen
at the very start and the very end of the dry season. The gestation
period is almost exactly a year and a half. The calf weighs 40-65 kg,
and is shaky and unable to move quickly for 2-3 days.
When frightened, the calf runs _ahead_ of the mother, unlike
every other herd animal. Weaning of the calf commences at 2 months,
but nursing continues sporadically for well over a year.
A female rhino normally gives birth every 2-3 years, almost
always to a single calf. They drive off their previous calf just
before the new one is ready to be born. Females and males both reach
sexual maturity at 4-5 years, but a female does not reach her full
size until around 7 years old. Males don't reach full size until
10-12 years old (!). Rhinos live a long time, and remain
reproductively active for that time -- a 40-year old female will
still mate and drop a calf every 3 years or so. Normally rhinos live
to an age of 40-50.
Now, for some Herd Man Facts:
A herd man is a mammal. It has six sides: right and left, and upper
and lower, and inside and out. At the back of it it has a behind
padded good. With this behind, he sits down on the rocks and on the
soil so he doesn't have to stand. The head is for to grow hair and so
his mouth can be somewhere. The hair is to tangle burrs with and the
mouth is to yell with. It has always been that way, I think. And then
in front of the girl herd man hangs milk. It is all fixed nice for
the milking. Now when people milk, milk comes and it don't never seem
to stop. How the girl herd man does it I have not yet realized, but
if you ever get around one you will find it makes more and more all
the time. Now about the smell. The herd man has a fine sense of smell
and you can smell it far away. This is one reason why there should be
much fresh air in Prax. But there isn't. When it is hungry it yells
and when it don't say nothing at all it is because its insides are
full up with grass or gas. And that is all about a herd man.
---------------------
From: phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Truestone, No, No, No.
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 16 Sep 94 18:20:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6245
In-Reply-To: <940915071...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
David Blizzard Writes
"I like Sandy's rules on truestones, although I find them a bit
limiting. Why throw a reusable spell into a blank truestone? It becomes
one-use, the use from the truestone. The only use is to give the spell
to a person who normally couldn't use the spell, and at what cost? You
lose both a valuable piece of Godtime plus the use of your spell."
You are missing the point of Rune Magic. It's not yours to do
what you want with, it's a gift from your God and should be used as such.
If a member of your temple is embarking on a quest then you give
them some help. Perhaps you give him the Fireblade matrix that you made
years ago. Perhaps you give him a good horse, or provisions. Perhaps you
give him your magic.
Certainly you can't, and never could dump the spell into the
truestone several times so that you can release it more rapidly than you
could prepare it. What it effectively does mean is that you can sacrifice
POW (in the medium term) for the benefit of your temple or a
representitive of that temple.
"However, this does help get rid of those obnoxious truestones
likethe one in the Sun Dome Temple in Sun County. I've always hated that
oneeven though the creation made sense if you didn't lose the spell. Now
only a very safe & peaceful temple would have them (like a Chanala Arroy
temple). Now the creation of such a truestone would drain the temple
of almost all it's magical resources. How would you like your entire
priesthood of a temple to have all it's reusable spells made one-use until
they can resacrifice for them. Gee, the High Priest has been building up
his reusable spells for 25 years, it will now take him another 25 years
to regain them (not likely)."
But of the High Priest is on his death bed and knows it, the
Guardian of Power will, with great ritual, bring the temple Truetone to
the Priest who will leave the gifts that he has been granted by his God
for the benefit of the God's temple and people.
**************************************************************
Phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Has it never occured to you that the Romans counted backwards?
(Be honest.)
**************************************************************
---------------------
From: phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Mind the Oranges Marlon!
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 16 Sep 94 18:20:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6246
In-Reply-To: <940915071...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
>Like motorbikes? *Groan* I can imagine 'the wild tribe' set in Adari
>when a
>gang of impala riders zoom into the city streets lead by a marlon brando
>lookalike and they terrorize the population...
Brando may not be the tallest actor around, but he's not THAT short!
**************************************************************
Phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Has it never occured to you that the Romans counted backwards?
(Be honest.)
**************************************************************
---------------------
From: sp...@spell.demon.co.uk (Martin Glassborow)
Subject: Questions (and confessions)
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.940916...@spell.demon.co.uk>
Date: 16 Sep 94 20:39:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6247
Subere and Cult-Spirits
-----------------------
Subere gets various darkness-spirits as cult spirits, amongst these Hags.
Hags and Sorcery
Hags get sorcery as their 'magic' according to the Creatures book, do
Gloranthan Hags also get sorcery? Or is the opinion that in Glorantha
they get spirit magic instead. If so, any ideas who taught them in the
first place?
Hags, Shades (and a confession of a power-gamer)
Hags can create Shades from darkness simply by expending magic points,
do people have any ideas/opinions whether they could use stored power,
i.e crystals etc, to produce whopping big nasty Shades? I used to play in
a group (of admittedly mad power-gamers, which IMHO is okay as long as
everyone realises that) which allowed this. I playing a power-crazed Duck
(who joined Xiola Umbar and then Subere) used this tactic to bind big,
big, BIG Shades. If this is legit, this means that Subere shrines and
temples could have really nasty temple defences.
Dehores
I haven't got my various troll supplements to hand, but can Dehores
(intelligent shades) turn off their fear-shock? Could a bunch of trolls
hide in a Dehore?
Xiola Umbar and Resurection
It always bothered me that Xiola Umbar doesn't get access to resurection,
even on a one-use basis. Then it struck me, that most Xiola Umbar
cultists are also in Kyger Litor, which does. But it still seems a tad
odd that they don't get access in their own right.
Yelm and Xiola Umbar
I seem to remember from the Cult compatibilty tables (this going back
some), that Yelm and Xiola Umbar are neutral with each other, as she
comforted him in hell. On the subject of greetings, I've been trying to
think up a suitable greeting/exchange between these two when cultists of
theirs meet? Ideas? Or do Yelm cultists just loftily ignore it? Perhaps
Xiola Umbar cultists sing a greeting?
Martin
---------------------
From: Ur...@aol.com
Subject: Gustbran
Message-ID: <9409161419...@aol.com>
Date: 16 Sep 94 18:19:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6248
Does anyone have anything written up on Gustbran the Smith? One of my
characters is playing the son of the smith in Garhound and I don't want to
deal with Third Eye Blue in a PC.
Mark Foster
---------------------
From: phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: The return of the Bless Crops debate from Hell
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 16 Sep 94 22:25:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6249
In-Reply-To: <940916071...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
>Bless Crops
>===========
> (Not AGAIN, everyone says) Just a comment. If you seem to
>need Bless Crops to grow stuff in Genertela, how come the Malkioni
>haven't starved yet after 1620 years without Bless Crops?
I assumed that Bless Crops was one of those spells that everybody cast on
their lands, not out of the knowledge that if you do it the grass will be
as high as an elephant's eye, and if you don't it won't, but because the
first thing you do when sea season has come and you set the plow to the
soil is offer thanks and praise to the goddess of the land that fed you
over the winter and will feed you this year.
The Malkioni obviously have a similar Rite. On the feast of St Dromal the
local Priest/Wizard will lead all the farmers in a ceremony that thanks
the Invisible God for his bounty. It'll be done differently, because
different cultures do things in a different way, but effect is the same.
I do think that we've got to stop thinking in terms of 'Spell, 2points,
resuable' and start thinking in terms of the role the magic serves in the
world/society. There's a lot of magic out there that makes damn all use
to warriors, but it vital to make the societies work. Spells like Bless
Crops, Create Market and so on are central to the worship of their gods.
>Yelornans
>=========
>In fact, given that Unicorn riders have to be
>celibate, I suspect that a number of them are Lesbians.
Surely not. Lesbian sex is not consistant with celibacy. With being a
virgin in a stricly medical sense perhaps, but not with denying youself
pleasures of the flesh.
>The unicorn tribe is all female, so I would expect many of the young
girls >growing up there to see lesbian relationships as the normal thing,
and to >downplay the Yelm patriachal model)
Well no. Not quite. Depending on how you define tribe. The members of the
tribe are female, that is to say, the warriors, the people who can become
elders, those that we listen to in the fire circle. But there are men
(were do you think these Unicorn girls come from?)
There are certainly men in Unicorn camps - slave men. They do the menial
work and are used by the women when they fancy a bitof the other. What a
Unicorn child doesn't see is patriachal marriage. She see's her mother
and the other women in the tribe living good fullfilled lives and using
men for sex when they feel like it.
> Incidentally, that comment probably applies to Babeestor Gor
>too. Of whom I think there are none in Prax. The Paps has its own
>unique Guardians (Serpent headed women, or women headed serpents,
>i can't recall which!)
Are now I'm with you, but do remember that Babeestor Gor women aren't of
themselves a society. Like humakti they make a part of society, serving a
purpose within it, but not being the dominant part. Actually I'd be
inclind to think that a Babeester Gor woman getting worried about sex
didn't have a true vocation, be it sex with a woman or with a man. (Woman
headed serpants)
> I can't realistially see them admiring Troll society. After
>all, most humans don't know that Trolls are ruled by women, and
>assume (once they see all those ZZ Death Lords and KL Kaarg's
>Sons) that it is a patriachal society like most human ones.
Certainly not. Trolls are DARKNESS and Darkness is EVIL!
>Pavic teleportation
>===================
> No, this is not some strange new Rune spell! What it is,
>however, is a comment based on looking at the Nomad Gods map again
>and reading certain passages in RoC. On the NG map, the city of
>New Pavis (2 hexes!) is SOUTH of the Zola Fel and WEST of the
>Rubble. In RoC/Pavis etc, it is NORTH of the Zola Fel and EAST
>of the Rubble! What gives?
Well it's South of the river and to the West of the old city in my copy.
> On a related note, in NG, the Sun Dome Temple is also north
>and east of the Zola Fel!
Well it's certainly to the east, though the river is pretty much
North-South by then, so North of the river's pretty meaningless. The map
in the front of Sun County struck me as having several places al bit out
of place - Moonbroth is too high and the Sun Dome quite a bit too low.
>Pol Joni
>========
> According to the G:CotHW books, the Pol Joni number about
>Five thousand. This makes them smaller than the independent tribes
>(I would say) yet they manage 6 counters (and 3 magicians!) in
>WB&RM/DP to the independents 1 counter each in NG. And my private
>copy of Praxpak implies that there are more like FIFTY thousand.
>Anybody out there have any answers on this one?
I would suggest that your copy of Praxpak is wrong. 50,000 is a smeg of a
lot of people, especially people that are marginalised by the dominant
culture of an area. Various historial documents, including the Bible,
lots of medaevil writings and king of Sartar tend to exagerate numbers an
awful lot to make a point. 50,000 wouldn't be sustainable without the PJ
filling all of Prax.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Carmanians.
Message-ID: <940916233...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 16 Sep 94 13:39:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6250
No matter how hard I try, I just can't see Carmanians as Persians. I
don't care if they are "dualists". They are NOT "dualists" in the
Zoroastorian sense. Zoroastorian dualism emphatically classed the "dark"
as evil and something to be avoided at all costs. It did not worship both
sides of the duality. The reason that the West got all horrified and scared
at it was that it posited that the active good god was equal in power with
the active evil god. Thus, the term "dualism". It did NOT mean that the
Persians worshipped both sides equally.
I get the impression from what I've seen that Carmania is truly dualistic
in its ancient religion. They worshipped deities who united dualistic
opposites into one thing. This would make them very much unlike the Persians
in religious philosophy.
Anyway, I've always seen the Carmanians as Slavs. The aristocracy are
tsarist Russian and the peasantry are Polish.
Some Carmanian Peasant proverbs:
Don't worry about your misfortunes, you'll be dead soon enough.
All shit smells, even the Emperor's.
Things always look darkest before you are jumped upon and robbed.
All men are honest, and I have teeth of gold.
Smile, you won't live forever.
No matter how bad things get, somebody else is happy.
"Hope for the best.
Expect the worst.
The rich are blessed.
The poor are cursed.
You're out of luck, here.
In fact, you're stuck here.
Hope for the best, expect the worst.
I knew a man who'd made a fortune that was splendid,
And he died the very day he planned to spend it,
Shouting, "Live while you're alive!
No one will survive!"
Hope for the best, expect the worst."
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: The Basmol Story
Message-ID: <940917002...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 16 Sep 94 14:28:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6251
>
>The Death of Basmol
>(as told by a Basmoli woman of Prax)
This story is strange. What is your Pride?
> In the beginning Basmol lived far away from here. He was the
>child of his mother Mikyh, daughter of Yanmorla, and his father
>Yelm, son of Cronisper. He was chosen to be chieftain of all
>the animals in the world. After his father was killed, Basmol
>kept the world alive by separating the weak and dying from the
>strong and healthy. This was how Basmol fought the Bad Ones,
>by killing those who could not be healed. This is who Basmol
>was. The chieftain who kills the sick and weak to keep the
>world strong.
Who are your grandsires, child, to tell you such things? It is almost right,
young one, but I think that something has been mixed up.
Basmol came from far away, it is true, but who is this Mikyh? She sounds
like a foreigner from her name. Basmol's mother was Mfolosa, daughter of
the Light of the Sky. His father was Pamalt, chief and father of many.
Pamalt gave him the place of the war-leader for animals and people, not
just animals. Yes, he is to kill, because warriors kill, but only when it
it righteous to kill. When we are surrounded by enemies, then we kill
everyone around us, because we must. Only a monster kills to keep things
strong. Has the hollow mask been talking to your grandsires?
The rest of the story is strange, too. It sounds like a foreigner's story.
Where is the formula? Where are the cries and laments?
Who are your grandsires, child?
I will sing of Basmol for you, child, so that your Pride may hear my song.
Pamalt is our chieftain.
Pamalt is our leader.
Pamalt is the bringer of babies.
Pamalt is the one who sits when others stand.
Basmol is his son.
Basmol is our leader.
Basmol is the bringer of glory.
Basmol is the one who kills when others flee.
In the long-ago.
In the far-away.
There was war.
There was rumbling of war.
There was death.
There was stench of death.
Lying things walked the land.
Filthy things walked the land.
Brother lay with sister.
Son lay with mother.
Pamalt came and taught the truth.
Pamalt came and burned the filth.
Pamalt took brother from sister.
Pamalt took son from mother.
The laws were made then.
The good land was civilized then.
But not all was good.
Not all was civilized.
The Filth that Walks had family.
The Family had an army.
The army had a land.
The land was in agony.
Basmol spoke at the council.
Basmol called for justice.
Basmol said something was not right.
Pamalt spoke at the council.
Pamalt asked for a reason.
Pamalt asked what was not right.
Is it right for evil to live?
No, sir, no.
Is it right for filth to spread?
No, sir, no.
Is it right to help your neighbors?
Yes, sir, yes.
Is it right to give them a hand?
Yes, sir, yes.
Basmol spoke of the Filth in the other land.
Basmol spoke of the pain in that land.
Basmol spoke of the chieftain sore-pressed.
Basmol asked for permission to fight the Filth.
Pamalt said the Filth was evil.
Pamalt said the pain was sorrow.
Pamalt said the chief was his brother.
Pamalt told Basmol to clean the other land.
Pack your things, children.
Our chief is going travelling.
Pack your things, children.
Our chief is going travelling.
Let us follow him on his worthy quest.
Let us follow him on his worthy quest.
We travelled with Basmol to the other land.
We walked over land now dead.
We travelled with Basmol to the other land.
We walked from the land now dead.
Here was the Filth.
Here was the Lie.
Here was the Wrong.
Here was the Evil.
We fought the Filth.
It dirtied us.
We fought the Lie.
It misled us.
We fought the Wrong.
It corrupted us.
We fought the Evil.
It made us weak.
Cry and weep! Ia! Ia! Ia!
Our children are monsters!
Cry and weep! Ia! Ia! Ia!
Our mothers are monsters!
Cry and weep! Ia! Ia! Ia!
Our fathers are weaklings!
Basmol stood by himself.
No one fought with him.
Basmol stood by himself.
All things fought against him.
In the end, there came the Filth.
In the end, there came the Lie.
In the end, there came the Wrong.
In the end, there came the Evil.
Basmol cut off its head.
Basmol cut off its arms.
Basmol cut off its legs.
Basmol cut off its penis.
Basmol killed the Filth.
Basmol killed the Lie.
Basmol killed the Wrong.
Basmol killed the Evil.
This is what is true.
Do not believe lies.
This is what is true.
Do not believe lies.
There, child, do you now understand where Basmol came from?
On another day, I will tell you how he was sore hurt, but now I am done
singing.
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: A less "in-character" commentary to the Basmol story.
Message-ID: <940917003...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 16 Sep 94 14:39:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6252
The Basmoli women's story reveals many things about Basmoli culture.
1: We already know from the Songs of the Basmoli (Pavis Knowledge Collectiana
#17/BM/8-15) that the Basmoli maintain that they were all male in their
beginnings on Prax. Furthermore, the Basmoli songs state that Basmol
came to Genertela from "Pamalt's Land" as a war chieftain with a war
party. Thus, it stands to reason to speculate that any woment they
had probably were stolen from other Prax tribes.
2: Basmoli practice religious segregation of the sexes. This is apparent
from the enormous contradictions between the women's story and Basmoli
men's songs. Basmoli men's songs do not mention deities such as Yelm
or Mykih. Instead, they use Pamalt, Mfolusa, Bolongo, and other names
that do no appear elsewhere in Prax. Evidently, over the generations the
Basmoli women developed a new religious synthesis based upon both their
own Prax-based religions and Basmol worship.
This religious synthesis may explain why the women's stories feel the need
to explain Basmol's bloodthirsty and predatory nature. Men's songs simply
state that Basmol feeds upon others without bothering to justify it in
terms of "necessity" or "right". It is simply accepted as the way things
are. It would prove most instructive to be able to interrogate both male
and female Basmoli shamans to get more information on these differences.
Anyone who is able to deliver one of each to the Pavis Knowledge Temple
should ask for Attaphraxes the Hungry. A substantial reward will be tendered.
(Price depends upon state and cooperativeness of the Basmoli so delivered.)
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Elmal and Yelmalio
Message-ID: <940917004...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 16 Sep 94 14:48:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6253
I was going to wait until I had gotten my entire theory of the Origins of
Orlanth and Orlanthi society on paper before I commented on this, but I
really need to get this out:
According to Yelmalions, Elmal is Yelmalio. He is just Yelmalio worshipped in
an incorrect manner. Monrogh cult founder discovered the correct way to
worship the god (as well as his complete name--Elmal is just an abbreviation,
after all) in his heroquesting during the reign of Jarasor (ca 1565 ST).
Tarkalor took advantage of this discovery, by the way, to get the throne of
Sartar. He permitted the "corrected" Elmali to set up a separate religion
and political division upon his ascension in 1569 ST.
Now, the Sun County south of Pavis County was, of course, settled by those
who had "seen the light" regarding Elmal's true name and status.
This, Yelmalions say that Elmal is just a misunderstood Yelmalio. The
fact that Yelmalio is friendly to Dara Happan solar cults has made this
religion popular with Lunar authorities, and they are trying to spread the
"corrections" among Tarshite Elmali.
Orlanthi, who include Elmali for these purposes, say that Yelmalio is either
some Fire Tribe god--probably Elmal's disgruntled little brother--who is
using the Lunars to steal away Elmal's people by lies or that Yelmalio is,
shudders and terrors, another Zistor-like creature--an artificial being
that has begun to act like a god from the worship it has been given. You
never can be sure about those Gbaji-kissing Fire Tribe worshippers, after
all.
---------------------
From: Arg...@aol.com
Subject: various animals & riders; elves
Message-ID: <940916215...@aol.com>
Date: 17 Sep 94 01:55:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6254
Peter Metcalfe says, not a moment too soon:
>I suspect by now, the others are getting a wee bit tired of
>hearing all about Yelmalio so if anybody wishes to take issue
>with my interpretation of the facts of the formation of the
>cult, would they please take it offline?
Please. This dead horse has been flogged into subatomic
particles.
I was trying to figure out what the Aldryami call their sun god,
as it seems likely that they have their own name whether it's
really old what's-his-name or not that they worship. But the
list of Aldryami names in Elder Secrets has a Sunshine (Lowin)
and a Sun Follower (Seomale) that seem to have no linguistic
connection. I considered and rejected the idea that one might be
derived from the word for sun and the other for the name of the
sun, as that seems unnecessarily de-spiritualizing even for
humans, much less for the spiritual elves.
Finally got ToTRM #12. And I got the Friday daily on time!
Yeah, there must be a star conjunction or something.
Re: White Buffalo
Saw this on TV tonight. World peace? When our species is
dead, maybe, but I hope that doesn't happen soon. Some people
make the mistake of seeing the Goddess's art as practical.
Re: Tim Minas's comments on Praxian census
The figures in G:CHW are pre-Jaxarte (yeah, that's the ticket).
However, I accept the 5,000 figure for the Pol Joni and reject
the Nomad Gods 6 counters, on the principal that later
publications trump earlier ones. I propose the following:
Who Description How Many
Agimori Pamaltelans 3,000
Basmoli Berserkers mercenaries 2,800
Bolo Lizard Riders odd Praxians 3,400
Ostrich Riders boomerangers 2,400
Rhino Riders big berserkers 2,900
Unicorn Riders amazons 3,250
Zebra Riders friends of Pavis 3,850
Total Independents 25,000
Oasis People: downtrodden farmers
where How Many
Adari 200 [+100 others]
Agape 300
Barbarian Town 1200
Biggle Stone 500
Bull Ford 700 [+100 others]
Cam's Well 600
Cliff Edge 300
Day's Rest 150
Horn Gate 1000
Indagos 500
Moonbroth 400 [+100 lunar garrison]
Pairing Stone 200
Paps 2500
Rory's Well 100
Tourney Altar 100
total Oasis People 8,750
Non-humans how many
Broos 10,000+
Newtlings 2,500
Scorpion Men 5,000
Unicorns 800
Zola Fel Valley Dwellers (in 1611, before the Lunar settlements)
Who Where How Many
Aldryami The Garden 1,000
Broos & chaos Rubble, marshes 2,000
Ducks along river 1,500
Dragonewts Big Rubble 150
Flintnail Dwarves Pavis, Rubble 200
mixture Corflu 1,000
Mru fishermen along river 8,000
Pavisites Pavis, old & new 6,000
Sartar refugees Pavis environs 16,000
Sun-Dome Templars Sun Dome County 13,000
Trolls & trollkin Big Rubble 2,500
Additional Zola Fel Valley Dwellers (in 1618, at the tail end of
the Lunar colonization):
Who Where How Many
Carmanians Helmbold & Rory's Well 5,000
between Helmbold & Chomoro 6,000
near Lokazzi 4,500
Redlanders Duchy of Raus 9,000
Helmbold & Rory's Well 2,000
near Lokazzi 3,000
Sun County 1,000
(Mostly Sun Dome cultists, a/k/a Yelmalio).
Talastari Stormwater Creek 1,200
Amid Garhound lands 1,000
W bank, between Pavis & New Bog 4,000
--Martin
---------------------
From: QFF0...@niftyserve.or.jp (QFF00036@niftyse)
Subject: Spells in a truestone
Message-ID: <1994091706...@inetnif.niftyserve.or.jp>
Date: 17 Sep 94 06:44:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6255
Kuri here.
Thank you for yor respenses.
I somehow missed Cults of Prax.
So I have read Trunstone section in Appendix of CoP.
Hum... If CoP says true: as long as the spell held by the Truestone
cannot be regainable, Truestone is useless. as someone said.
Issaries' Spell Trading spell allows priest to regain his spells
traded (CoP P.62).
I will use this revised trunestone rule in my campaign.
1. Regaining spells
Spell held by a truestone is regainable if the spell is reusable and
the owner makes POWx3 in a ceremony in his temple or alter.
If the spell is non-reusable, he must make POWx1 roll.
If he rolls 96-00 the spell is lost.
This ceremony is allowed once per week and only one spell per week.
2. Recharging spells
Truestone is recharged if the owner cast the same rune spell into it.
If he cannot cast, he must sacrifice as many POW as the Rune Point of
the spell recharged, so he can gain the spell his cult does not have.
Any commnets?
Regards.
// Kuri (QFF0...@niftyserve.or.jp) //
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6256: =
- Truestone and Excommunication
6257: =
- Kill an aldryami and die a hero!
6258: =
- Moon Spear
6259: =
- Many-faced Lodril
6260: =
- Pol Joni and Storm Mountain Orlanthi
6261: =
- Gustbran
---------------------
From: t...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tarry Higgins)
Subject: Truestone and Excommunication
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 17 Sep 94 10:37:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6256
In-Reply-To: <940916071...@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM>
T.J....@soton.ac.uk (T.J.Minas)
makes some interesting points about casting excommunication from
truestone, it's an interesting idea indeed, but I donlt think it's workable. I
know that truestone fills a person with a need to cast rune magics into it
strike rank by strike rank, but isn't Exommunication a ritual that takes at
least 1hour to cast? I don't think that rituals can be cast into truestones
because of this.
In addition although the name of the spell in the books is
"Excommunication" it really should be "Excommunicate Orlanthi" or
Excommunicate Humakti".
On the whole though the way that Sandy looks at truestones makes
them little more than divine magic matricese, crystals seem more
interesting and strange. I think that they should be more than just this,
in every game I have played truestone has been rarer than crystals by
far, and it's qualities should reflect this. Each piece of truestone should
be completly unique. It's far more fun this way rather than finding
"standard" boring truestone.
IMO Truestone is inherently magical in and of itsself, and it should be
possible to do things to a blank piece of truestone to set it into various
ways by modifying or using ths normal rituals. This would normally
require all participants to make their ceremony rolls and such like
otherwise things might go VERY strangly wrong - so only the best
priests would be participate in this. (And of course should someone
fumble then naturally something will go very badly wrong for all of
them, and again should someone critical then it might just be a little bit
better than they expected)
The sorts of things that should be possible :
Storage of a large ammount of magic points as many as can be got into it
while it was being set, ideal for a priests to be used as the temple alter
stone with the priests and spirits all standing round.
Similar to the above, but capable of recharging itsself - mayby by having
the people donate MP rather than POW instead at creation time or
possible a mix of both, so it has a max of 50 (MP donated by say 5
casters) with a recharge rate of 5 per day (each caster donated 1POW)
Mayby it could be a divine matrix that recharges itsself at one point a
day (or week or season) - recharging all the 1 point spells first then the 2
point ones etc - or possible it will recharge if just by being left in an
active temple.
How about allowing it to enhance the effects of certain divine spells -
just as Power Enhancing crystal does - but this being set for specific
rune spells.
Regards,
Taz Higgins
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Kill an aldryami and die a hero!
Message-ID: <01HH8HPS8...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 18 Sep 94 10:51:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6257
-----------
Martin Crim
>I was trying to figure out what the Aldryami call their sun god,
>as it seems likely that they have their own name whether it's
>really old what's-his-name or not that they worship. But the
>list of Aldryami names in Elder Secrets has a Sunshine (Lowin)
>and a Sun Follower (Seomale) that seem to have no linguistic
>connection.
I, the Blue Wizard, have investigated the speech of the Aldryami
and have concluded it is much more than sounds alone. It has been
well known that Aldryami have some wierd touchsense that allows
them to sense the emotional capacity of that which they touch. I
must say that I have accepted a commision by the lords of Fonrit
to produce a 'phantom elfsense' spell to clear the forests.
However, I feel that the elves also have some capacity to sense the
emotion in the speech.
Consider the facts. Elves do not like to hear other people speak
their language and speak other tongues in the presence of other
beings. Furthermore in some places they delegate the task of
speaking to outsiders to a speaker cf Speaker to the Small Red
Rivers in the Jungle, Speaker to the Beast Men in Seshnela and
Speaker to Those for Whom the Love has Gone. The last is an elvish
warleader who has come into prominence against the fight against
Fonrit.
It is my belief that when other speak, they give a different emotion
to their words than that for which the Aldryami are accustomed. When
saying love, the human might give an emotional subtext of happiness
and this confuses the aldryami deeply. The most experienced of them
translate any aldryami being spoken by an outsider into another
language and respond in kind. Some are incapable of performing this
mental trick and slowly go insane after prolonged contact with the
outside.
The warriors of Fonrit discovered this truth in the Eight Season
Wars and so I am told make use of Aldryami in their war crys as a
means to damage the mind of their opponents. Sample cries, I am told,
include 'Blossoms Abound!', 'Rising Shoots!' and 'Dancing leaves!'.
This has been adopted to such an extent that the marching song of the
Gargunan army is 'Greensleeves is my heart's desire...' whereas the
Goanese sing 'Green grows the grass...'
As for the deciphering of the Aldryami tongue, I can only conclude
that as well as accents, the elves of different woods have a
preference for using particular woods. Heartwood is 'Penacyr' for
the Greens and 'Cenor' for the Browns.
If people are willing, I will describe the writing of the Aldryami
in a future post.
--Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: 10027...@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Moon Spear
Message-ID: <940917125558_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 17 Sep 94 12:55:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6258
______
Devin:
> While eagerly reading my TOTRM 12, I noticed in the Granite Phalanx
> writeup that certain officers can get the spell of MoonSpear from their
> Lunar connection. Pray tell kind sirs and ladies....what doth this spell
> do?
Chris Gidlow (who wasn't credited for this fine write-up: black marks for
the Megacorp!) hasn't written a description yet. I'd run it as an exact
parallel of Sunspear; if the Moon is shining upon the intended target, he
gets whacked on the head by a dangerous (meteor, moonbeam, whatever) and
takes loads of damage (physical or mental), enough to incapacitate or kill
most normal folk. A 3-point reusable prestigious Rune spell.
*later*
I've just phoned Chris, and he thinks it's a crimson ray zapping out from
the officer's spear to microwave the brain of the intended target, and not
something coming from the Moon itself. Moonlight may be needed for it to
work; or damage could vary on a cyclical basis. We chatted a bit about its
effects, and came up with something like this:
___________
MOON SPEAR: 3 points, ranged, instant, nonstackable, reusable.
A ray of moonlight is projected from the caster's spear to blast the brains
of one target. Without needing to overcome magic points, the target takes
4D6 points of damage to the head. Armour worn on that location will protect
against this damage as usual; spells are ineffective.
GM Options: use whatever you prefer from:
(1) The [target and/or caster] must be illuminated by moonlight: the
spell cannot be cast on the Dying or Black Moon days, or if cloud
cover blocks the moonlight (this is Nick's version, not Chris's).
(2) The damage done by the spell is cyclical:
Full Moon 5D6
Half Moon 4D6
Crescent Moon 3D6
Dark Moon 2D6
(Just discussed with David Hall: he likes this)
(3) The meaning of "spells are ineffective" is exactly the same as
for
Sunspear, whatever it meant back there. I remember Sandy helping
us out with this, many moons ago.
It's not quite as gross as it looks: consider. A sufficiently prominent
target for this spell ought by rights to have a plate helm; under RQ3,
that's nine point head armour. 4D6 damage averages 14; take off nine AP
defence, and you've got a mere 5-point head-wound. Treat the spell with
exactly as much respect as you give Sever Spirit or Sunspear, and it's
probably safely balanced. And, Sartarite commanders beware: don't take off
your helmets on the battlefield! (Anyone remember 'Scanners'?)
__________
Truestone:
I agree with Jonas about Ceremonies and Rituals not being "storable" -- the
caster would have to perform the ritual correctly himself, using the power
of the stored spell instead of his own.
I'd like better rules for "refilling" both Divine matrices and Truestones,
but that can wait a while.
Personally, I like thinking of the problems caused when the guy who fills a
Truestone can't regain his spell until the one he's stored is cast. Fun for
GMs... reminds me of those life-candles in folk-tales. But then, I've never
used or seen a Truestone in play, so I'll defer to those who have.
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Many-faced Lodril
Message-ID: <940917161...@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 17 Sep 94 20:11:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6259
Peter Metcalfe writes:
> Lodril indead has a good many modes of worship
...
> All these are correct ways to worship Lodril.
Exactly! Lodril has the Disorder rune, so he should be worshipped
in many ways. My guess is that each temple has its own practices,
which vary greatly over time.
/Nils W
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Gustbran
Message-ID: <1994091800...@radiomail.net>
Date: 18 Sep 94 00:18:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6261
Mark Foster wonders:
>Does anyone have anything written up on Gustbran the Smith?
From my Ralios PenDragon Pass game:
GUSTBRAN [heat, stasis]
God of the Forge
Worshippers: Smiths.
Skills: Awareness, Devise, Industry, Mineral Lore, Religion (Gustbran), Ritual.
Duties: Forging tools and weapons.
Virtues: Energetic, Generous, Honest, Proud, Trusting.
Cult Magic: Bludgeon, Endurance, Extinguish, Heat Metal, Ignite, Repair.
Divine Magic: all common, Enchant Bronze, Enchant Iron, Enhance Gustbran,
Find Bronze.
Miscellaneous: Shrines are very rare.
(Although almost all clan thanes support a smith, there's no way for enough
smiths and apprentices to gather to support a shrine by the temple size
rules.)
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Pol Joni and Storm Mountain Orlanthi
Message-ID: <H.ea.VbI...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 17 Sep 94 23:25:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6260
Martin Crim in X-RQ-ID: 6254
> Re: Tim Minas's comments on Praxian census
> The figures in G:CHW are pre-Jaxarte (yeah, that's the ticket).
> However, I accept the 5,000 figure for the Pol Joni and reject
> the Nomad Gods 6 counters, on the principal that later
> publications trump earlier ones.
In Dragon Pass the Pol Joni have 3 Clans counter (5-5-4-X), corresponding
to maybe 1500 men. These could make up to 20% of their populace, so their
actual number might be 7500 rather than 5000.
The rest of the Barbarian Horde are at least partly horse riders, too
(they are subject to Ironhoof's exotic power), even the shamans.
They consist of 2 Amber clan units and one each of the Potor Clan
and the Ansil Clan, plus the magician forces of Flash Jak, And-Jay
and Krise, with ca 500 men per counter another 3500 men of the
bastard tribes. (I suppose that the shaman units' fighters will be
comprised of the minor bastard clans beside the Pol Joni, Amber,
Potor and Ansil.)
Assuming the 20% ratio Nick applied to the Char-un, there will be other
cattle bastards besides the Pol Joni, numbering 17,500 or so, to a
total of 25,000 cattle bastards.
These numbers might actually be a bit high for the non-Pol Joni clans,
who might be supplemented with Storm Bulls from the Block and other
mercenary adventurer types from the plains who have less qualms to
ride alongside horses. All of these would live in the Better Place,
the hilly parts of the Good Place, and of course No Man's March
around Barbarian Town. Some might serve as auxilia under some
Hendriki marcher barons around Knight Fort.
The possibly existing cattle bastards from the upper Zola Fel and
the more fertile Bison Plains around Adari IMO are accounted for
in Argrath's secret societies forming the Twin Spears, Swordbrothers
and Bullocks. They too are subject to Ironhoof's powers, but
they also are formed from Praxian nomads. I suspect they have
very mixed beasts - bisons, sables, high llamas and possibly
even impalas alongside with zebras and horses. Apart from
these secret societies, only the Storm Bulls from the Block
can show a similar mix of mounts - possibly sans horses, but
include rhinos.
(BTW: Are there Morokanth Storm Bulls? What gear do they use, and
do they mix with other Storm Bulls? Do the Pol Joni Storm Bulls
worship at the block, or do they dominate the Stormwalk Mountain
altar?)
Another possible source of men for the Pol Joni and other cattle
bastards are the feral Orlanthi of the Storm Mountains. These are
a hardy collection of pastoral farmers living in the high valleys
amid the peaks of the mountains, mostly on isolated steads similar
to the Norwegian boender in the isolated places. Read the Old English
Orosius (well, a translation) about Ottar (German speakers have this
in Free INT 7, plug plug). These guys plow only very little land,
their mainstay is their cattle. They harvest large amounts of hay
where possible, and bring in brush and bush foliage to augment their
winter food. Apart from that, they hunt the capricorns and wild sheep
of the higher reaches, and occasionally foray either into the forests
on the Heortland side of the mountains (also to get timber and firewood
which can be traded with good profit to the nomads at Barbarian Town)
or to participate in the hunt when the migration of the plains beasts
brings them close to their abodes - these latter forays are often joint
ventures with the plains-dwelling cattle herders.
The mountain Orlanthi and the cattle bastards engage in mutual cattle
raiding as much as any Praxian nomads or East Ralian tribesmen, even
though their cattle isn't very suited for life in the foreign clans.
Mountain cattle is reminiscent of the highland breed of scotland, though
smaller in size (shoulder height of prize bulls rarely exceeds 1.30
metres), with woolly fur. They are quite good milk cattle, although far
from effective compared to the common Heortlander breed.
The plains cattle herders favour a breed similar to the Texan longhorn
so familiar (even to Old Worlders) from ages of TV-Western series. Their
milk efficiency is quite low, but still comparable to that of other
Praxian herd beasts.
I'm not sure what kind of horses the Pol Joni and other cattle bastards
use. I think that part of the breeding stock was raided from the
Grazelanders in Derik Pol Joni's youth, and traded from Tarshite
breeders when the Pol Joni offered protection from the incessant
Praxian raids. The cattle bastards policy to allow disgruntled exiles
from other Praxian tribes into their ranks seems to indicate that they
have horse herds with sufficient numbers of spare mounts. This would also
allow them to include mountain Orlanthi volunteers in the Barbarian Horde.
Of all the cattle bastards, only the Pol Joni have sworn allegiance to
the royal house of Sartar and have a part in the Swenstown alliance.
This has made them more territorial than the rest of the cattle bastards,
although still not sedentary.
The most puzzling fact about the Barbarian Horde is their adoption of
Jaldon Goldentooth aka Toothmaker. Derik and Jaldon were foes, and
when Derik slew Jaldon he almost died himself. Is their story a parallel
to that of Pavis and Waha, where Pavis made peace by visiting Waha's
altar and restoring his health? Or is this alliance only based on the
fact that the Pol Joni control access to Jaldon's Rest?
> I propose the following:
> Who Description How Many
> Agimori Pamaltelans 3,000
> Basmoli Berserkers mercenaries 2,800
> Bolo Lizard Riders odd Praxians 3,400
> Ostrich Riders boomerangers 2,400
> Rhino Riders big berserkers 2,900
> Unicorn Riders amazons 3,250
> Zebra Riders friends of Pavis 3,850
> Total Independents 25,000
You have the Newtlings below, but not the Baboons. In NG they have
one clans counter and one shaman. Assuming approximately 20% fighters,
their number could be in the 4000 range.
> Oasis People: downtrodden farmers
> where How Many
> Adari 200 [+100 others]
According to Tales 3, the populace of Adari is 300 to 600 humans _inside
the palisade_. No mention of oasis folk or farming is made, but refugees
from the fall of Pavis to Gerak Kag are mentioned. IMO oasis people are
rare this far north; their Golden Age civilisation was further south.
Tada's Tumulus could be similar in position to that of Antioch, far from
any city of his.
The rest of your numbers are useful, and appreciated.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6262: =
- Truestone: Tunnels in Time... Re: Wimpstones?
6263: =
- Bloggom Marshes
6264: =
- Tim the GodLearner's Theory of Disease
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Truestone: Tunnels in Time... Re: Wimpstones?
Message-ID: <940918075...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 18 Sep 94 08:59:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6262
Jonas Schiott gives a very good model of the
effect of Truestone on divine magic:
>As I've implied before, I want Truestones to just 'freeze' cast spells,
>keep them in Stasis (closely related to Law) if you will, until they are
>called for. This would mean that the person filling the stone _has_ cast
>the spell (and can thus regain it as normal), it just hasn't taken effect
>yet. This modification makes truestone really fearsome, some might even say
>'gross', but I would also make it much more scarce than some people seem to
>be assuming. I mean, I would never let a _player_character_ get his/her
>grubby hands on something like this!
Now, this suggests as if Truestone/Law can actually ignore
the compromise in some way, or in other words, links back
directly into Godtime. Sounds interesting. It sort of "fits".
Sudden surge of insight: The Truestone acts as a portal in time
between the original caster and the eventual user of the spell.
I think it can still be debated whether the spell actually
"has been cast" or is still in the process of "being cast",
the outcome deciding on whether the spell can be regained or not.
Now originally, I resided in the latter camp, but I think
Jonas' model is so good that I'm tempted to switch.
--
Henk | Henk.La...@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
| x15338 -- ask me about /etc/rc2.d/S80lpconfig
---------------------
From: Dev...@aol.com
Subject: Bloggom Marshes
Message-ID: <940918152...@aol.com>
Date: 18 Sep 94 19:28:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6263
Devin here:
Thanks to Nick for the description of Moon Spear. Of course it should be
cyclical, that's what gives the Lunar Empire its fun :-)
Now another question for you all. I just ran Queen Ozgag's Hall (TOTRM
12)...quick ain't I (I needed an interlude advanture and this one was easy to
place into a campaign. Also, I had been wanting to return a certain lost Iron
Sword with Lightning 2 matrix to the party after they had lost it a while
ago.........)?
Now, the players have ascended through the lefthand door and are in the
Bloggom Marshes. Great. But where ARE the Bloggom Marshes exactly? Yes, I
know they are to the far west, but a quick perusal of my maps showed the only
marshes in the far west to be in Pamaltela, just east of the Sea of Worms.
There is no mention of Bloggom Marshes or Purple Marshes however. Are these
marshes off of the map entirely? If so, how far West of Slon are they and how
far north of Slon?
Help!
Devin
---------------------
From: t...@cs.mu.OZ.AU (Tim Leask)
Subject: Tim the GodLearner's Theory of Disease
Message-ID: <94091900...@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
Date: 19 Sep 94 20:54:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6264
A while ago someone asked if all Gloranthan disease is caused by spirits
and if so how do broo spread disease and contaminate items. Well
I was contemplating this on the weekend and came up with the following
theory.
All diseases are caused by disease spirits. That is anyone exhibiting
symptoms of infection is covertly possessed by ONE or MORE disease spirits.
Malia is the one and only source of disease spirits.
The terms mild, chronic, acute and terminal actually refer to the number
of spirits covertly possessing a patient suffering a disease.
Disease spirits need a "marker" on the mundane plane to manifest themselves.
There are several ways this "marker" can be created. Broos can easily "mark"
objects in the disgusting ways outlined elsewhere. A object or place
contaminated in this way becomes a beacon for disease spirits. It allows
them to "see" the object. Sometimes a disease spirit will inhabit a
contaminated object othertimes the spirits will just hang around the
contaminated item waiting for victims.
Disease spirits inhabiting a body will sometimes summon another disease
spirit. A spirit thus summoned will either attack the patient or
more likely attack a new victim near by. Some disease spirits can automatically
"mark" objects that the possessed touches and thus attract and spread
more disease.
Other maladies such as madness are caused soley by passion spirits,
but that is the topic for another article.
The actual game mechanics I leave upto individual GMs, but here are some
suggestions.
Spirit combat with disease spirits should be slow, resolve once a day
or week. Lose one point from a statistic per spirit inhabiting body,
each day or week. Patient can only actively combat one spirit at a time.
This means that a typical recovery from a chronic level of infection
would be to go from chronic to mild to cured as successive spirits were
defeated. Healing spirits can be used to aid a patient by combating
the spirits. Several healing spirits can assist one patient.
Healing spirits can see the contamination "markers" and remove them.
There are as many different types of spirits as there are disease, not all
cause statistic loss, e.g. sniffles. More powerful spirits could
cause stronger effects.
Tim "GodLearner" Leask
================================================================================
Department of Computer Science /*\__/\ "Anyone can hold the helm when
University of Melbourne < \ the sea is calm."
Parkville, Vic., 3052, AUSTRALIA \ _ _/ -- Publilius Syrus
Phone: +61 3 344 7877 \| --
e-mail: t...@cs.mu.oz.au
================================================================================
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6265: =
- Truestone & SB
6266: =
- line
6267: =
- My DM 0.02 on Truestone
6268: =
- Temporary temples
6269: =
- Gloranthan Geology
6270: =
- line,
6271: =
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 17 Sep 1994
6272: =
- Truestone, Earth Deities, etc.
6273: =
- line
6274: =
- Fatigue
6275: =
- Blogg'em...
6276: =
- hearthmother tale
6277: =
- 2nd hearthmother story
6278: =
- Re: Truestone, Rune Magic, Carmanians
---------------------
From: JAR...@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Truestone & SB
Message-ID: <9409190906.AA01003@Sun.COM>
Date: 19 Sep 94 09:09:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6265
Hi All
To repeat (quickly) an article I posted quite a few months ago:-
1) I believe Truestone does double damage to Chaos creatures (like iron does
to trolls and elves).
2) I prefer to think that the original loader of a Truestone does not lose
the spells permanently, but can regain them after they have been cast from the
stone.
3) The Storm Bull cult have a few very special weapons designed for heroes to
use to kill Chaos and also reenact their god's defeat of the Devil. These
are troll mauls with Truestone heads. The Truestones each hold the full
complement of spells of one or more Storm Kahns. The ritual method for
dispatching the Chaos foe is an overhand special (or critical) blow which
crushes the head of the target and piledrives them into the earth.
NB. I would rule that chaots cannot regenerate from damage inflicted by a
Truestone (also it would ignore any chaotic features like +12pt skin armour)!
From a mythical standpoint the close proximity of the Truestone would close
the temperary gap in the fabric of reality which Glorantha chooses to cover
with a chaos monster.
Cheers
Lewis
---------------------
From: s...@liverpool.ac.uk (Simon William Jones)
Subject: line
Message-ID: <ECS9409...@liv.ac.uk>
Date: 19 Sep 94 09:24:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6266
Sorry, just another request really.
Having read about PenDragon Pass, and knowing that it was put as an
article in Tales #6 or #7, which I ain't got, could some-one, anyone, send me the
article- the author- I don't know who ever. I've got a sketchy version of my own,
knowing Pendragon, but, would like to use the version everyone else is using.
Thanks,
Simon
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: My DM 0.02 on Truestone
Message-ID: <H.ea.ONq...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 19 Sep 94 09:31:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6267
Ok, everybody had their say on Truestone, so here's mine.
My exposure to Truestone started with Elder Secrets, so I had little
problem to accept the rules stated there, and repeated in SiP:
If a user of divine(-like) magic finds an unset Truestone, he feels the
overpowering urge to transfer all his divine magic into it. The spells
are permanently lost to the provider, and they are permanently set into
the Truestone. Magic Points are not involved at all under RQ3 rules.
Spells in a set Truestone may be cast by the person holding it.
Afterwards the Truestone knows the spell in the same way a priest knows
a reusable spell he has just cast - it can be renewed at a temple by
performing the spell renewal ritual (a day's worth of prayer).
The advantage is that one doesn't need a priest who can cast this
spell.
If a set Truestone is found, in all likelyhood the spells will have
been cast, and to use it they first have to be refreshed.
This far the picture is clear. Now come possible solutions for the bags
of worms:
- If a one-use (for priests) spell is set in a Truestone, the same
amout of POW must be spent to reactivate the spell.
- If a Warding spell is set in a Truestone, the user still needs to
enchant the rods for the spell.
- If a ritual spell is set in a Truestone, this means the knowledge
about the ritual has been put into it. To perform the ritual correctly,
the appropriate ritual skill has to be used. I'd modify this skill with
a familiarity factor based roughly on the cult relation table (Cults
Book p.18): the number given divided by four is multiplied with the
skill. Minor variations could be allowed for sharing runes or traits of
the other cult.
In the case of Enchant spells, the POW must be provided by the caster.
- Setting a stone: I'd rule that only spells the person touching the
stone could actually cast at that moment are put into the stone. This
would allow priests to retain a minimum of their reusable magic even if
they fill the stone.
- Emergency refilling of set Truestones:
This seems to have been the case in Biturian's encounter with the
Chalana Arroy priestess: Biturian's stone must have been set with his
repertoire of Rune spells already, but they had been cast from the
stone. To activate the stone, Biturian cast his spells into the "slots"
of the stone, and so gave her access to his magic.
- Truestones set with magic of different religions: Refilling the
stone.
For the maximum game fun I would rule that anybody can refill the
spell, regardless of cult rank in whatever cult, but that this person
would have to do so in a place holy or sanctified to the cult which
gave this spell. Imagine a group of Orlanthi sneaking into a Lunar holy
place to refill their Mindblast spell...
I wouldn't call this refilling a worship of the deity in question; by
binding the deity's spell into Truestone, it is effectively moved
outside this deity's control. If members of appropriate cults (the
original one, associated or friendly cults) perform the refilling, it
would be sort of worship. If enemy cultists perform the refilling,
they'd worship their own deity by overcoming the enemy and stealing its
power. Beware of spirits of reprisal in this case...
Because Truestones hold part of the divine essence of the original
cult, they are considered sacred items of that cult. The cult in
question will do whatever is within its power to recover such a stone.
So, who would profit from Truestone?
Powergamers mainly, I'm afraid, although this includes heroes:
An unset Truestone is very handy if you plan to change your cult. Fill
it with all your magic, and then be excommunicated or not, as long as
you have the stone, you have the magic, and reusably so.
A vile use of it would be to force an unset Truestone upon an
unsuspecting rival, let him fill it, and then take it from him. Saves
you a meeting on the hero plane...
The deathbed filling of unset Truestone would still be powergaming, but
by thesociety, not the individual. It is possible, and it would create
interesting special temple offices as guardians of the stone. Give a
Rune Lord without reusable divine magic or 1D10 DI such a stone, and
you have a very distinguished character, and a tough NPC.
I have used a Truestone only once in a scenario, where the Truestone
was part of the altar at a holy place where no regular worship
occurred. Worship <deity> was part of the spell collection inside the
Truestone, to allow also non-Rune levels to perform the holy quest at
this place. I ruled that the questers would refill the stone's spells
by their prayer, except the handy escape spells, which would likely
have to be refilled before the use.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Temporary temples
Message-ID: <H.ea.aSD...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 19 Sep 94 09:31:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6268
David Dunham in X-RQ-ID: 6261
> From my Ralios PenDragon Pass game:
> GUSTBRAN [heat, stasis]
> God of the Forge
[...]
> Miscellaneous: Shrines are very rare.
> (Although almost all clan thanes support a smith, there's no way for enough
> smiths and apprentices to gather to support a shrine by the temple size
> rules.)
This is a typical example for the periodical gathering of specialists.
IMO there will be fairs even in backwater Orlanthi regions, where
something like a Great Market spell of Issaries is turned in its effects
to City Harmony rather than a special case of Warding. Just like Issaries
or other trade gods' initiates can renew spells at such an opportunity,
you will also get craftsmen's aggregations here which will support shrines
or larger congregations, and entertainers and other minority groups will
make their use of these opportunities as well.
In East Ralios there might be horse fairs which will attract blacksmiths
(ok, bronze working horse-shoeing smiths), who will be the local
horse-healers as well, and therefore taken along to give their expertise
on the specimen for sale or for breeding contracts. Excellent background
for all kind of roleplaying activities...
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: s...@liverpool.ac.uk (Simon William Jones)
Subject: line,
Message-ID: <ECS9409...@liv.ac.uk>
Date: 19 Sep 94 11:46:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6270
Good afternoon Gentlemen and Ladies,
Just another request, I'm afraid. The continual mentioning of PenDragon
Pass, has finally spurred to ask, if it's not too much trouble, whether someone
could mail me the rules. I know it appeared in Tales (6 or 7), and as these are
unavailable, this is my only recourse. I know David Hall will be reading this, so if
you object, just yell out. I'm familiar with Pendragon, and use my own draft rules,
but it would be nice to see the "official" version.
Thanks for your time,
Simon.
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 17 Sep 1994
Message-ID: <940919162...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 19 Sep 94 04:28:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6271
Martin Glassborow
>Hags get sorcery as their 'magic' according to the Creatures book,
>do Gloranthan Hags also get sorcery?
'Tis my opinion that they get sorcery. Who taught them? It's
likely that _they_ taught the sorcerers first. They're older, after
all.
>Hags can create Shades from darkness simply by expending magic
>points, do people have any ideas/opinions whether they could use
>stored power, i.e crystals etc, to produce whopping big nasty
>Shades?
Of course.
>I used this tactic to bind big, big, BIG Shades.
??? Just 'cause hags can produce big shades doesn't mean they're any
easier to bind.
>I haven't got my various troll supplements to hand, but can Dehores
>(intelligent shades) turn off their fear-shock?
Dehores are more than just intelligent shades, and there is a
whole spread of different Dehori. I don't think they can turn off
their fear-shock, but the trolls could hide in a Shadow, of which a
semi-intelligent species lives in Dagori Inkarth.
Nick Eden:
>According to the G:CotHW books, the Pol Joni number about
>Five thousand. This makes them smaller than the independent tribes
What you must remember is that the Pol Joni all live in
Prax. The bulk of Rhino Riders, Morocanth, etc. live in the Wastes.
Nomad Gods only shows the Praxians who happen to be in Prax at the
time -- easily 80-90% are off gallivanting around Graydust Flats or
the Demon's Quarter.
Tarry Higgins:
>On the whole though the way that Sandy looks at truestones makes
>them little more than divine magic matrices
In my own defense, this is only true when the crystal is used
for the relatively mundane purpose of storing Rune spells. I play
that _anything_ can be stored in a Truestone -- skill points, POW
(regenerable), INT, knowledge, _anything_. A person wasting his
Truestone on Rune spells would be condemned in most areas I know.
Joerg:
>Are there Morokanth Storm Bulls?
Yes, but probably not many, since the main berserker cult
among the Morocanth is a variant on Zorak Zoran.
>What gear do they use?
Same as other Morocanth warriors -- i.e., claws, maces.
>do they mix with other Storm Bulls?
Not much -- there's no reason for Storm Bull Berserks to lose
all their prejudices and racial hatred just because that bastard
Morocanth has managed to sniggle his way into the cult of the Bull.
>Do the Pol Joni Storm Bulls worship at the block, or do they
>dominate the Stormwalk Mountain altar?
The latter. While the Praxian Storm Bulls violate many cult
dogmas, if the Pol Joni showed up riding their horses there'd be
enough squabbles and fights that it wouldn't be worth the trouble. Of
course, every once in a while the Pol Joni Storm Bulls get a flea in
their ear and a couple of hundred of them charge over to the block en
masse to worship there "as is our right" and get in a huge brawl and
have a grand old time.
---------------------
From: rst...@mail.lmi.org
Subject: Truestone, Earth Deities, etc.
Message-ID: <9408197799....@mail.lmi.org>
Date: 19 Sep 94 16:37:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6272
Greetings!
I have always played Truestone as being the frozen blood of the
gods/desses and took the frozen description one step further. In
Truestone, time is frozen. When you cast a spell into the Truestone,
it remains inside, half cast until ultimately released. So, the
caster cannot regain the magic.
On the subject of Earth Deities, after Arachne Solara cast out her
web and whilst Taron keeps the world in balance, the Earth gods/desses
are less tied to their ground than they were in the Godtime. Even
with great amounts of worship and much magic point sacrificing, the
ground in a wasteland won't improve much. Things occur in a linear
fashion now (for the most part). Too much intervention by a deity
would be taken as a breach in the Great Compromise, and even the gods
are not interested in seeing Glorantha destroyed.
Just some random thoughts,
Rich
---------------------
From: s...@liverpool.ac.uk (Mr S.W. Jones)
Subject: line
Message-ID: <1994091915...@uxe.liv.ac.uk>
Date: 19 Sep 94 17:48:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6273
PenDragon Pass
Sorry, but I've just got a request that I'm hoping you can help
with, having seen PenDragon Pass mentioned quite a few times, and knowing
it to be printed in Tales 6 or 7 (which is sadly out of print)- I was
wondering if any of you generous souls could furnish me with a copy of
said article. I have my own version, but would still like the "official"
version (hope there's no complaint from David Hall).
Thanks for your time,
Simon.
---------------------
From: DCOW...@UTMEM1.UTMEM.EDU
Subject: Fatigue
Message-ID: <01HHAR7XS...@UTMEM1.UTMEM.EDU>
Date: 19 Sep 94 07:47:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6274
Does anyone have any material on the amount of fatigue lost to encumbered and
unencumbered individuals when travelling? By foot, horseback, everything? If
not, what are your rulings on this(I might compose a chart based on your
experiences with this).
PS: How often does the Digest come out? And how often do people receive Codex
magazines? I ordered some and the check was cashed over a month ago, but I
haven't seen anything yet. Anyone help me out here?
Thanks,
David Cowling
dcow...@utmem1.utmem.edu
---------------------
From: 10027...@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Blogg'em...
Message-ID: <940919202000_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 19 Sep 94 20:20:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6275
Devin asked about the Bloggom Marshes, one possible end location for Jon
Quaife's scenario "Queen Ogzag's Hall", in Tales #13.
I think the colour Purple associated with them is meant as a giveaway that
these Marshes are on the shores of Luathela. But if your campaign is better
served by locating them near Slon, or Winterwood, or any point in between,
put'em there. The point is, they're very, very far away. JQ said he wrote
them in because he liked the Voyage of the Dawn Treader so much, if I'm
remembering his comments straight.
They are off the map.
I'd hope for a ship of passing Wolf Pirates (in an amiable mood), or maybe
idealistic Loskalmi explorers (Boldly Going, etc.), myself. Or Barran the
Monster-Slayer, if you want a fully-fleshed-out crew and a tie-in to
"Strangers in Prax"...
This ship's very next stop is wherever you want your players to end up.
(Perhaps by way of a couple of God Learner islands inhabited by Silly Old
Men, etc: I can name you a good source for these).
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 724-9843)
Subject: hearthmother tale
Message-ID: <01HHAX2RX...@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 19 Sep 94 11:27:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6276
(A short tale from Imther)
The Death of the Hearthmother
by Harald Smith and Peter Michaels
In the days when Lodrem wandered on and within the earth, he had many
children. One was called Enveria, a goddess of fire. When Yelem fell
from the sky, the people called upon Enveria for help and she aided
them for Enveria was the Communal Fire. She lived both among the
people on the world below and among the gods in the world above.
Among the people, she lived in every fire they lit: the hearth, the
candle, the bonfire, etc... She helped and aided the people,
providing them with a spirit of community as well as with tools to
warm themselves with and to guide themselves thereby.
One day, Orlantio espied her and desired her for himself. He came to
Enveria as a gentle breeze, but she shied away. He came to her again,
winds swirling around, but she tried to escape and eluded his grasp.
Finally, he came to her to show her his great majesty* with a cape of
huge clouds and a mighty flail which he waved around himself. Enveria
tried to run from this terror, but the storm was too great. The
ground tore up around her and she tripped upon an uprooted tree.
Orlantio, in his lust madness, did not see that she had fallen. He
brought his flail down upon the tree and Enveria, destroying her very
being. Orlantio howled in fury, but it was too late. Enveria fled
upon the path of Yelem and finally escaped from Orlantio's clutches.
But upon the earth, the people were left without fire and they grew
cold and hungry.**
* amongst the southern clans: Orlantio comes to her engorged with
lust.
** amongst the northern clans, especially along the border with Tork,
a variation is told:
Enveria ran into the Darkness in an attempt to escape Orlantio. In
her panic, she ran into a horrible demon named Bagog. When Orlantio
saw what Enveria had met, his lust left him and he quietly slunk away
amidst the shadows. Bagog devoured, enslaved, and perverted Enveria,
forcing her to become the community focus for her terrible children.
Upon the earth, the people were left without fire or a sense of unity,
and they grew cold, hungry, and isolated.
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: Truestone, Rune Magic, Carmanians
Message-ID: <940919213...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 19 Sep 94 21:36:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6278
Paul here quoting Henk quoting Jonas Schiott:
>As I've implied before, I want Truestones to just 'freeze' cast spells,
>keep them in Stasis (closely related to Law) if you will, until they are
>called for. This would mean that the person filling the stone _has_ cast
>the spell (and can thus regain it as normal), it just hasn't taken effect yet
Henk replies:
...
>Sudden surge of insight: The Truestone acts as a portal in time
>between the original caster and the eventual user of the spell.
...
>Now originally, I resided in the latter camp, but I think
>Jonas' model is so good that I'm tempted to switch.
I'd support this also. We use something that is functionally similar
but not so elegantly described... Truestone as a piece of the "old world".
Souls are another such piece.
I give blank Truestones an effective POW - they only have so much 'potential'
to be 'set'. Combining this with Jonas' description and Henk's addition,
we would have something with
a) Game balance - you don't have 'excess' Rune Magic appearing from nowhere.
b) A nice elegant description, very Gloranthan
c) A nice conceptual model - the truestone acts like a 'time portal' but
is only so 'wide'. And its channels are in a set shape... this makes more
sense if you subscribe to the model that all uses of a Rune Spell are echoes
of the First use of that spell.
---------------
This brings up: Rune Magic.
I run that the 'primitive' form of Rune Magic is gotten by personal questing,
through known methods. (And sometimes unknown). For Trickster, this is
the only way. For some primitive cultures, it is a way.
In more complex societies, the process gets formalized and comes under temple
(or at least priestly) control.
Oh, have to go, more later.
[-paul
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Gloranthan Geology
Message-ID: <H.ea.DSn...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 19 Sep 94 09:32:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6269
After long discussions about mooses, suns and other high-flying stuff
now down to the ground, and right into it.
These ideas have been derived from the published Glorantha info on
Gloranthan geology and have been expanded by me, partly for use as
background info for my Heortland campaign. With an alchemist and an as
yet landless knight looking for opportunities among the player
characters, an essay on geology of the land can become essential.
All this copyrighted by Joerg Baumgartner, September 1994.
General assumptions:
[Sources: RQC-16f, KoS-53, 55, 57, RoC-177, SPH-14f, TG-17f, WF13-5]
The Glorantha Book from G:CotHW gives a very short statement on the
geology and physics of Glorantha on p.8. The magical geology is
detailed in Elder Secrets. More detail facts on Gloranthan geology are
given in Snake Pipe Hollow, River of Cradles and the projected "Beneath
the Salt" by MOB.
A fact that is a bit hard to explain is the abundance of massive layers
limestone and other sediment on the surface of Glorantha. The best
explanation I can give is that the Earth rose through the sea, and
pushed a part of the water upwards which left its (in that phase of the
creation low) mineral content on its surface when it slowly evaporated.
Later actions of geology and climate resulted in partial resurfacing of
the primal cold earth.
The prime shapers of the surface of the earth were Larnste, God of
Change, Lodril, god of volcanoes, and his children, Maran Gor, the
Earth Shaker, Valind and Inora, gods of glaciers, and the Storm, Sea
and Chaos gods with their (mostly erosive) activities. Minor influences
were falling stars and moons, plus the dead or sleeping bodies of gods,
dragons and giants. Actual geology was initiated when Umath pushed
Earth and Sky apart - the ensuing deformation of the Earth, and the
invasion of Togaro and his followers and their fights with the sons of
Umath during the Golden Age initiated somewhat conventional geology.
Really conventional became the geology of Glorantha only with the
reversal of the river flow and the start of rainfall, variously dated,
but generally occurring when the Spike imploded and the remaining earth
was broken in three separate parts (see Tales 10 for maps of the
fissures).
To illustrate a sophisticated Gloranthan view of the geology I provide
an excerpt from:
An Analysis of the origin and nature of the Storm Mountains.
Duchamp Collectanea DC:1615.JSq.12-5
Duchamp, Truth/Stasis/Dark 1615
My Liege, King Owain of Heortland, and my esteemed colleague, Flindil
Lambscraper, Royal Librarian,
I humbly submit these results of my research on the mountains your
majesty's ancestor Hendrik made famous in his fight against the minions
of Gbaji. This analysis combines research in written accounts,
transcripts of oral tradition of the native populace, and reports on
field work.
May St. Lhankor Mhy, Patron of Sages, bless this document with his
Light of Truth, and shrivel those who profane it!
Jereginos Steelquill, Senior Teacher at the Aeolian College of Duchamp
[I might publish other excerpts of Jereginos' comments and quotes on
this and other topics later.]
Geology:
The Storm Mountains comprise actually several chains of mountains of
different origin. The oldest parts come from the seeds Larnste
scattered around Dragon Pass when he met the dragons at their nesting
ground, just off the slope of the Spike. They were made of the cold
earth of the earliest age of the Earth. The rock from this period is of
a light grey with occasional spots and inclusions of darker material,
and viewed thoroughly will show small crystallites intergrated with
each other. Estimated period of origin is the Earth Age, still before
the Green Age.
The next oldest rock found here comes from Lodril's invasion to the
earth, which rose the Vent and the other volcanoes along the south of
the Holy Country. Lodril's children spread into the east as far as the
Wens of Corflu, and into the north as far as the Quivin Mountains. Some
say that the Three Step Isles in the farther south were raised as
mountains in this time. In the centre of this rising stood the Vent in
Caladraland, and like the Vent these mountains show obsidian,
basalteous rock, and layered ash and lava deposits. These rocks were
scorched by the deep fire and generally have a darker colour than the
rest. Estimated period of origin is the late Green Age, when this son
of Aether invaded Earth.
However, most of the mountains were raised in the later Golden Age.
When Umath was born and pushed apart Earth and Sky, the Waters invaded
the surface of Earth. Raging Sea had separated Genertela from the
Spike, and Faralinthor covered large parts of Esrola's land and
neighbouring territory. After Umath had chanced upon the lovers and had
slain Faralinthor, the waters in this region retreated to what now is
Mirrorsea Bay, then hiding-place of Choralinthor. However, the intimate
relationship between Esrola and Faralinthor had left its traces on the
surface now again in contact with Air: chalky sediments, the ground
bones of the children of Molakka, covered wide parts of the land. These
sediments formed a white rock, sometimes permeated with darker bands of
red, black or green, which Tarban the Plow showed to be remnants of
conflicts between various deities in his treatise on the White Cliffs
of Heortland (Lylket Knowledge Temple #103.573.A, copied as Duchamp
Collectanea DC:878.Lyl:TtP.35-3).
The rising of the Storm Mountains occured in two steps. The first was
the famous incident when Larnste had left the Spike to oversee Yelm's
stewardship of the world, and found it wanting, for a chaos thing had
wormed its way into the world and nested there. In his anger, Larnste
stamped on it with his foot, which caused the depression known as the
Footprint. Even though the thing bit the Greater God of the Celestial
Court, its underground lair was smashed and its tunnels collapsed. From
the force of the stamping the earth folded up. However, the thing
remained, and only by the force of Lodril's spear, found left lying
where Lodril had entered the Earth in the huge Obsidian mountain
southeast of the tip of the Skyreach Mountains, which later was
flattened by Argan Argar and made into the Shadow Plateau, and pierced
the thing writhing inside the debris. Lodril had been tricked by Eurmal
into his favourite weapon, the mighty spear of deep fire, in a drunken
wager, and was trapped therein, unable to escape until returning to his
chosen home. Exultantly, Lodril burst forth from his underground home,
spewing out molten earth, rocks, and a huge pall of ash and dust. Kolat
was angered at this pollution of his realm and summoned Bingista, the
Good Wind, who blew this cloud back to where it originated, and covered
the slime of chaos. As a result, the forest there was petrified.
However, part of the dust still fell on the ground, and is found by
miners just above the chalk layers left by Faralinthor.
The folds made by the stamp of Larnste now are the two outer chains of
mountains, creases of chalky limestone, light grey on the surface, but
white in the interior. Sometimes the petrified bones of dragonkind can
be found there, buried before this incident, and highly priced by the
Inhuman King who is said even to have taught draconic magic in exchange
for good specimen of these. Other findings can include giant seashells
and even the occasional giant pearl, like the six used for the
councillors' thrones in the City of Wonders.
The final raising of the Storm Mountains was effected at Orlanth's
commands by his half brothers, sons of of Kero Fin and Lodril, in
gratitude for the aid Orlanth had given to Quivin, one of their number,
against the rage of Vadrus. Orlanth wanted to please his mountain
mother by reestablishing her connections towards the Spike, and the
mountains reached far into the Raging Sea. The sons of Lodril, always
the workers, brought up all the buried rock in praise of their and
Orlanth's mother, so that all kinds of rock can be found in this
middle, and highest, range of the mountains. However, their handicraft
was no mettle against the occasional rage of the storm gods. Once Storm
Bull wrestled with the chief of them, and twisted off his head. The
twisted remains of his body form Stormwalk Mountain, in the southern
part of the range.
During the Storm Age and Darkness these peaks were battered by battles,
and the debris rolled off to form the foothills. Large boulders dot
this region, and treacherously smooth grassy slopes reveal themselves
as piles of rubble gliding of the real slope, sometimes causing
rockslides if trespassed. Another large amount of these peaks was
carried onto the plains when Inora commanded her icy minions to fight
the chaos oozing from the hole the imploding Spike had left. Their
glaciers carried or pushed down finely ground material which forms the
clay hills of the flat plateau. The scraping of the ice tongues still
marks the upper valleys, and they retreated only in a series of
battles, still discernible by the morraine ridges they left in the
landscape. The vast amounts of water melting off the beaten glaciers
cut the deep gorges of the five rivers into the plateau, and spread
wide fans of muddy soil into Choralinthor's hiding place, still visible
when the Blue Streak has plunged downwards. The upper riverbeds
sometimes have ore deposits inside their gravel: silvery remains of the
love between Esrola and Faralinthor, coppery fragments of the bones of
the earth, mixtures of tin and lead from Argan Argar's attempts to
conquer these mountains, where he lost several sons, minuscule
fragments of crystallized gods' blood, splattered up there in unceasing
fights, mostly too small to hold powers except as component for
alchemists' potions. In some places deep wells yield pitch and tar,
remnants of Murthdryas children covered by shells of Molakka's
offspring, used for lighting and building. A few sulfurous and mineral
springs give witness of the ongoing fight of Faralinthor's scattered
fragments with Lodril and his children who imprisoned the dismembered
god.
The interior of these mountains has remained largely untouched by the
children of Mostal. In the Age of Gbaji once they invaded circular
tunnels opening from these mountains, and found them unoccupied, until
they were ambushed by either minions of Krarsht from the Footprint or
troll guards from the Troll Woods, and were either eaten or forced to
flee. The Iron Vrok did not repeat this attempt. For this reason the
treasures of the earth supposedly still are there to be found by
enterprising miners. The royal silver mines, founded during King
Hendrik's Exile among the mountain tribes, give ample proof for this.
Further to the north, the Kitori run mines crewed by hordes of worker
and food trollkin which literally eat their way into the mountains.
Their ore can sometimes be traded from Argan Argar traders, but a
considerable part of the yield is used to outfit the Silver Spears, an
elite unit of dark troll and trollkin spearmen trained to fight the
magical monsters of the Foulblood Woods. The tarnishing powers of Tien
require constant replacement of this metal, which has proven its
effectivity against some chaotic features.
I append copies of the reports of Tarban the Plow on the White Cliffs,
DC:878.Lyl:TtP.35-3, Arinstor Yellowbeard the Taxman's evaluation of
the silver mines of the Martofsaetan, DC:1607.AYb.7-12, a letter from
Mikhil Baron, private Gray Sage from Alda-Chur, on a dating method
based on fossiles in and of limestone, archived as DC:L,1614.AC:MB.1-1,
an excerpt of an alleged partial copy of Zzabur's Blue Book, a gift to
the Duchamp College by King Hendrik the Fourth after his conquest of
Refuge, DC:1254.Ref:Zz.22537-1269, an expertise by Scholar Wyrm on some
fossils found near the Martof Headwaters before trading them to the
Inhuman King, DC:1492.SW:134-5, interviews Korlmarl the Listener led
with various inhabitants of the Mountains, DC:1595.KtL:24-13-*22. Not
included, since ready to your perusal at the Royal Library, were
Agricola's 13 books on the art of mining and the creatures of the Deep,
the Flintnail Dialogues by Herendikos of Pavis, "The Junior Alchemists'
Guide" by the infamous Delecti of Remakerela, Baranwolf's misguided
treatise on metals and crystals, and Stein Meadcalfe's "Metallurgy"
quoting an obscure Loskalmi dabbler in metallurgy. The "Annotations to
Agricola" by Daran Bonehunter will give valuable cross-indexing to
further treatises on this subject.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 724-9843)
Subject: 2nd hearthmother story
Message-ID: <01HHAXFDV...@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 19 Sep 94 11:34:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6277
(This story logically follows the story of the original hearthmother's
death and is known throughout Imther.)
The Burden of Ralaska
by Harald Smith and Peter Michaels
Ralaska is the daughter of Lahksar, the Celestial Servant and brother
of Arahar, and Queliska, daughter of Uleria and poet of love. She is
said to have been a favorite child of the heavens, wandering amidst
the celestial hosts. Even the death of Yelem and the withdrawal of
the heavens did little to affect her, though there were fewer to visit
than before.
Eventually, Lagavar the Before Light came to court her. He sent her
gifts of nectar and dewfire. She sent him gifts of jewelled words and
chiming globes. He offered her a place within the Crystal Hall. She
accepted and asked Lokarma to lend her a cart of glowing alabaster.
When she arrived at the Crystal Hall, she found Arahar there and not
his son. Arahar told her that Lagavar was sent upon a mighty quest to
find and restore Yelem to the world. But his love for her was strong
and would endure the quest. He left a fiery circlet for her to wear
upon her head, symbol of his mighty feelings.
Ralaska took the circlet and wore it proudly. She returned to her own
hall to await her beloved. As she composed an epic poem from words of
love eternal, Arahar came to her. Ralaska asked him if Lagavar had
returned. Arahar told her sadly that he had not, announcing that
Ratslaff had come to beg an audience with her. Ralaska refused,
saying that she would attend to no business until Lagavar's return.
Ralaska continued to wait for Lagavar in her hall. As she sang a
wonderous melody from tones of eternal love, Arahar came to her again.
This time his spouse Teliska, Mother of Dance, accompanied him.
Ralaska asked them if Lagavar had returned. They told her sadly that
he had not, announcing that again Ratslaff had come to beg an audience
with her. Ralaska refused, saying that she would still attend to no
business until Lagavar's return.
Ralaska continued to wait for Lagavar in her hall. As she burned a
brilliant brightness from flames of eternal love, Arahar and Teliska
came to her a third time. For a third time Ralaska asked them if
Lagavar had returned. For a third time they told her sadly that he
had not. Ralaska was about to dismiss them again when she caught
sight of a pitiful creature waiting outside her hall. Ralaska's heart
was touched by the way the creature ached to be warmed by her
presence. Ralaska asked Arahar and Teliska who was outside her hall,
and was told that the sorry thing was Ratslaff.
At first, Ralaska could not believe what she was told. The pitiful
creature was nothing like Yelem's Jester, whose jokes and antics could
ignite the holy Light of Joy in the heart of gods and men alike!
Shocked to her core, she agreed to hear the words of Arahar and
Teliska.
They told her of the terrible violence which had befallen the world
below since the Storm gods had come to power, which not even the Clown
could use humor to prevent. They told her of the great despair which
had befallen the world below since the Earth Mother's slumber, which
not even the Clown could bring hope to. They told her of the numbing
cold which gripped the hearts and minds of the world below since
Enveria's death, to which not even the Clown could bring the warmth of
laughter to. They told her of the horrifying nothingness which spread
across the world below since the Children of the Void had ceased non-existing, which not even the Clown could make fun of. Lastly,
Ratslaff himself told Ralaska of the darkness which covered the world
below, which not even Khelmal could bring light to, and that he had
been sent by Khelmal to beg audience with her.
Arahar and Teliska told her of the sleep of the Earth Mother and the
death of the Hearth Mother. They told her that without the warmth of
the hearth fire, the men below would surely fall to the powers of the
evil Storm gods or even the minions of the mighty Void. They asked
that she descend to the earth below and make a hall there for herself
and Lagavar when he returned.
As a child of the Celestial Servant, Ralaska understood. She agreed
to descend to the earth below and become the Hearth Mother, filling
the homes and hearths of the people. She agreed to this only with the
understanding that Lagavar would join her on the earth when he
returned from his quest.
Though she was unsure of this task, she acceeded to it. Like a great
streak, she plunged down from the heavens to the world below. Khelmal
greeted her properly and she offered her aid to him and the people.
She gave to them her fiery circlet, her very gift from Lagavar, asking
only in return that her name be honored along with that of her love,
Lagavar. The people agreed. Khelmal showed them how to take up the
circlet then, and the people lived.
But Lagavar could not return to her. Instead, he was bound by the
cycles of time to ever lead the way for Yelem and to guard the sun's
path from its foes. Though they loved each other greatly, they could
not meet. Grieving, the hearth fire dwindled into ash and part of
Ralaska fled to find Lagavar, though she could not go entirely without
abandoning all the people. Lagavar then sent the cats to her, a gift
to keep that part of her still on earth company, so she would not be
lonely and fall entirely to grief.
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6279: =
- Styx and other random questions
6280: =
- a dreamquest
6281: =
- Prais, pissers & provocation--Mike Dawson
6282: =
- Red Army ideas wanted
6283: =
- Really Heavy (metal) Gloranthan stuff..
6284: =
- RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 19 Sep 1994, part 1
6285: =
- totrm #12
6286: =
- Truestone, Violence
6287: =
- Re: Sandy On Herd Animals
6288: =
- Oops! Mea Culpa.. Too much *POW*ZIE!* Pavis stays put
6289: =
- Granite Phalanx, Bloggom Marsh
6290: =
- Chump of the Year Award Goes to...
6291: =
- Gustbran shrines; PenDragon Pass
6292: =
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 16 Sep 1994, part 2
6293: =
- Chalana Arroy, Resurrection, and Vinga
6294: =
- The Ice Lorry Cometh.
6295: =
- A fertile line of discussion.
6296: =
- Pelandans, not dead, just forgotten.
6297: =
- The Sinking of Sandy.
6298: =
- RQ2 taints.
6299: =
- Aldryami; Pol Joni; Warhamster
6300: =
- Vinga and associates.
6301: =
- Fatigue; Codex answer
6302: =
- RuneQuest Con 2 Update
6303: =
- Mps and broos.
6304: =
- Rune magic/power, and questing.
6305: =
- Land/Grain Goddesses
---------------------
From: dav...@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: Styx and other random questions
Message-ID: <1994092008...@cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 21 Sep 94 00:48:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6279
I seem to have little luck generating topics lately. People
obstinately refused to talk about the Issaries Desert Tracker quest,
despite having great conversation about many closely related topics, and no
one wanted to talk about the Kitori except Joerg, who mostly agreed with
me.
So here goes some more random questions, in the hopes that I will
eventually hit on a subject with the potential to generate conversation on
the moose level.
Several HeroQuest entry points land you on the river Styx or its
shore. The most notable are the Styx's Shore spell of the Jeset the
Ferryman cult (mentioned in Troll Gods) and the Puzzle Canal during sacred
time. What can you do once you are sailing on the Styx? What is a sample
HeroQuest path from that point, or is it a standard generalised entry point
to multiple heroquests? What would be a nice quick way out once you end up
in that situation? To get some Styx water (ever popular with those plagued
by vampires) can you just dip a bucket over the side, or do you have to pay
some sort of toll to Styx or some other guardian?
Other HeroQuests I would like to know a little bit more about are
the Stormwalk mountain heroquests. There are two, and I cannot remember the
proper names or founders of the paths, but there is a Storm Bull quest that
involves climbing the mountain and capturing a Sky Bull for a steed. There
is also an Orlanth quest that involves attacking the herdsman for the Sky
Bulls, a giant, and subdueing him using a stick and rope. This quest
emphasises Orlanths mastery over Storm Bull (as king Storm) and grants the
ability to bring Uroxi out of their Berserk rage. I would like to know more
about these quests, just enough for me to be able to run them. I may even
be confusing different parts of the same quest.
Cheers
Dave
---------------------
From: GBa...@aol.com
Subject: a dreamquest
Message-ID: <940919183...@aol.com>
Date: 19 Sep 94 22:36:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6280
I ran an adventure where the group was asked to retrieve
an item, a dragon mask, stolen from dragonewts. My main
goal was to establish one of the PCs as a dragonfriend (one
of Kallyr's companions), and it has come down between two
PCs. The PCs' chieftain was given the task of deciding
which one it was. I thought about it for awhile then had an
idea: have the PCs write down what they think the mask
means to them. They both wrote down something similar
(*sigh*) so I decided that a divination was to be held (next
playing session). My idea is that all the PCs, Kallyr (an
NPC), and a few others would take part which would become a
dreamquest. They all would sit in a circle in the central
large hut and each would go separately in this dream which
would have several different possible paths. The dreamquest
would do damage or grant powers but nothing is permanent, a
dreamer who "died" would reawaken in the hut. I'm not sure
if a guardian is needed, or what it would be, but it would
be fairly easy to overcome.
The first choice would be to either leap off a cliff
(Kero Fin) into the air (Orlanth) or go through a wall of
loose rich "earth" (Ernalda). Going through the wall would
gain you 1 armor point on all locations (all the dreamers
wear regular clothing, no armor), like a stone skin. Then
either walk through a tunnel of gems representing wealth
(taking 1D6 1D3 attacks) which would lead to an Issaries
test, or lie in a bed of dirt. Lying in the bed of dirt
would have a small shrub grow from the groin with thorns
(Chaos) and fruit (apples?). In one leather-gloved hand
would be a small scythe, you either trim thorns (1D6 1D3
unhealable attacks) or heal the fruit being brushed up
against the thorns from a wind (Chalana Arroy's test, also
taking damage that is healable). Not doing either would
have a season pass and start the growth all over again.
I haven't figured out where to go from here. Maybe nowhere and
the PC awakens.
Jumping off the cliff would have you falling. You see
two flying creature below and you can fall on either one, or
continue falling (which would give you wings and
claustrophobia, like a Wind Child). The two creatures are a
gryphon (or should that be a hippogrif?) and a dragon (I
think all will choose the dragon). I haven't figured out
where to go from here, either. But probably all would
land on some structure.
So what I'm asking for is any ideas of simple tests or
tasks to accomplish (like Lhankor Mhy's quest for
knowledge), and a way to decide who is to be dragonfriend
(both could be, but that could complicate matters). I'd
like to have a test or task relating to each of the
Lightbringer dieties.
By the way, what does it mean to be a dragonfriend? How
would someone become one?
Glen
P.S. thanks for any help or suggestions.
---------------------
From: eco...@cabell.vcu.edu (Sog University)
Subject: Prais, pissers & provocation--Mike Dawson
Message-ID: <940919210...@cabell.vcu.edu>
Date: 19 Sep 94 21:06:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6281
Mike Dawson here, not Kirsten Niemann
First off, the Praise:
Hoooray to Henk for getting the headers into the Digest system. Now
perhaps I have some hope of clearing out the 140+ backlog of messages
in my mailbox. All digests, too.
I suggest that people posting to the daily use their subject line
wisely by including a (brief) useful description, and adding their
name to the end of the subject. Note that Henk's headers do not
currently capture the ID of the person posting.
Of course, if you are afraid no one wants to read YOUR stuff, then
leave your name off. (OR consider rewriting.)
Pisser:
I hope I never see another posting like the deradful "Rubba Duck."
A waste of band width that would peeve me even more if I had to pay
for my digest access, as many subscribers do. I had hoped the RQ
community had gotten over such stuff back with the publication of the
cult of "Indlas Somer." Things like that deserve, AT BEST, a line or
two for the joke, not a full cult write up.
Provocation:
An open question to all:
Where is the place of the "bug hunt" or dungeon crawl in the RQ line?
Keep in mind that many people have fond memories of their time spent
in Snakepipe Hollow, and I happen to love the idea of an adventure
set inside a dead dinosaur ala Trollpak.
Granted, in a perfect world all the publication energy available
would be aimed at classics like Borderlands or large scale peices
like Sun County.
But what if AH got a submission that was just a gloranthofied
dungeon?
---
Other news
Codex 3 is nearly done. I am scraping around crazily for a few bits
of art. If you are artistic, email me if you feel like volunteering.
Mike
--
------------
Gloranthophiles need to contact me at code...@aol.com
for information about Codex Magazine.
UK Gloranthophiles write to cphi...@blue.demon.co.uk
"Inquiries into the nature and secrets of Glorantha" .
------------------------------------------------------/_\
---------------------
From: lips...@vax.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Red Army ideas wanted
Message-ID: <00984B6D....@vax.ox.ac.uk>
Date: 19 Sep 94 18:34:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6282
Hi there
Having been reading the Daily for a while now I figure the time has
come take a less silent role.
I'm currently considering a campaign in which the PCs are Lunar
soldiers in a decade assigned to a border fort somewhere or other (but not
Sumware Orother), the idea inspired by finding a drawing of a typical Roman
border fort. What I'm looking for is any info on life in the Lunar army. The
Granite Phalanx write-up in Totrm was useful, as were the scant and tantalising
notes posted a few days ago about the individual 7 Mothers branches.
The concept I have is something like the Riskland campaign, only from a
Lunar rather than an Orlanthi viewpoint, therefore roleplaying within the fort
is just as important as any combat encounters. I'd also like the possibility
for the PCs to end up "going native" a la Dances with Wolves.
Any info, plus any suggestions for NPCs and duties would be welcome.
Either post them in the Daily or send 'em directly to me
(lips...@vax.ox.ac.uk)
Thanks
Si
---------------------
From: mmor...@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 19 Sep 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <1994Sep19.1...@vnet.ibm.com>
Date: 19 Sep 94 21:50:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6284
*** Reply to note of Mon, 19 Sep 94 09:15:17 +0200
*** by RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Tim Leask gives a good theory for disease. I like the idea of the
disease spirits coming in numbers to a victim, but not necessarily
all at once! The markers area great way of explaining why we shun
broos and other disease carriers, but yet don't always get a disease
when we're around them. I think it's a Malia cult-special skill to
"leave mark". And Chalana Arroy Treat Disease identifies type of
mark and removes it -- I've always had difficulty with curing a
disease simply by using a Treat Disease skill ...
So, broos and others leave marks; disease spirits see the marks and
come to attack victim within a certain amount of time (5 minutes?
1 hour?); before marked person is attacked by spirit, Treat Disease
will remove the mark; after the person is attacked, Treat Disease
will only identify the disease and remove the mark, but not cure the
disease; Cure (Disease) Rune Spell evicts one disease spirit per
casting; Healing Spirits attack disease spirits one-on-one, so one
Healing Spirit could evict several weak disease spirits, or be itself
evicted by a strong disease spirit; Healing Spirits can mask any marks
from being visible to disease spirits, but Chalana Arroy priestesses
must physically remove a mark; disease spirits can leave new marks
for future spirits.
I plan to use this system. I hope I didn't mangle it too much, Tim ...
Michael
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael C. Morrison IMS Information Development Tieline 8-543-4706
Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California (SWS) Phone (408)463-4706
Bitnet ID: MCM at VNET Fax (408)463-4101
Internet ID: MMOR...@VNET.IBM.COM or USIB...@IBMMAIL.COM
IBM Mail Exchange ID: USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL or USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL
X.400 Address: G=mcmgm; S=morrison; P=ibmmail; A=ibmx400; C=us
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 724-9843)
Subject: totrm #12
Message-ID: <01HHARFQL...@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 19 Sep 94 08:37:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6285
Hi all--
Kudos to all on the great 'colour' special. In terms of use and
personal interest, I would put it in the top 3 issues.
The timing of Granite Phalanx was particularly good since my players are
just in the process of establishing a Lunar colony along the Elf Sea and
will be recruiting good lunar veterans to help it along. I can picture
the Granite Phalanx veterans arriving now. Of course, that raised one
immediate question--do retirees retain any access to their rune magic
or are they considered totally cut off from this once they leave the
regiment?
I noted that Devin has already run Queen Ozcag's Hall and asks about the
Bloggom Marshes. Given that the Gates of Dusk can be heard nearby, I
would assume these marshes are somewhere in the midst of Luathela (shown
only on the old RQ 2 world map) and thus well north-west of Slon (more
or less straight west from Magasta's Pool/Jrustela). Perhaps the
marshes are along one of the coasts (purple salt water?) and kind turtle
gods or Yggs Island raiders can rescue them (or the Luatha take them on
board one of their nice purple ships?). Or since the Bloodbirds noted
in the Puzzle Canal in the Big Rubble pack are supposed to be from the
west, maybe your characters can encounter a nice 'friendly' flock?
Both Warhamster and Runepower were worthwhile additions. I think I'll
find the mass battle rules quite useful.
Harald
---------------------
From: kl...@diku.dk
Subject: Truestone, Violence
Message-ID: <1994092010...@rimfaxe.diku.dk>
Date: 20 Sep 94 14:51:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6286
Truestone
"""""""""
j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner) writes:
If a user of divine(-like) magic finds an unset Truestone, he feels the
overpowering urge to transfer all his divine magic into it. The spells
are permanently lost to the provider, and they are permanently set into
the Truestone. Magic Points are not involved at all under RQ3 rules.
The way I understand it, spells can be regained once cast from the stone.
Otherwise Biturian would not have filled his spells into that stone. Even
a CA healer can not demand that a priest give away all his divine magic
permanently.
Spells in a set Truestone may be cast by the person holding it.
Afterwards the Truestone knows the spell in the same way a priest knows
a reusable spell he has just cast - it can be renewed at a temple by
performing the spell renewal ritual (a day's worth of prayer).
As I understand it, a spell must be cast into the stone to recharge it.
If the spell was reusable to the caster, it can be regained after it
is cast from the stone.
If a set Truestone is found, in all likelyhood the spells will have
been cast, and to use it they first have to be refreshed.
Realistically, yes. However, a truestone is a plot device, a way for a
GM to give the PCs one-use access to any spell he wants them to have. In
actual play, found truestones will usually be charged.
This far the picture is clear. Now come possible solutions for the bags
of worms:
- If a one-use (for priests) spell is set in a Truestone, the same
amout of POW must be spent to reactivate the spell.
There is no reason to treat one-use spells differently from any other. If
the spell was one-use to whoever (re)charged the stone for any reason, it is
lost permanently when the stone is charged.
- Truestones set with magic of different religions: Refilling the
stone.
For the maximum game fun I would rule that anybody can refill the
spell, regardless of cult rank in whatever cult, but that this person
would have to do so in a place holy or sanctified to the cult which
gave this spell. Imagine a group of Orlanthi sneaking into a Lunar holy
place to refill their Mindblast spell...
This is how spell matrixes work. I would say that an extension spell is
an extension spell, and can be recharged by anyone able to cast it. A
worship Kygor Lithor spell is of course different from worship Thed. A few
spells might need special rules. Is there one excumunication spell, or
a set of excommunicate from cult of [deity]? One or many sanctifies?
- Emergency refilling of set Truestones:
This seems to have been the case in Biturian's encounter with the
Chalana Arroy priestess: Biturian's stone must have been set with his
repertoire of Rune spells already, but they had been cast from the
stone. To activate the stone, Biturian cast his spells into the "slots"
of the stone, and so gave her access to his magic.
Biturian very carefully kept the blank truestones he had obtained blank. He
filled the stone for the first time at the request of the healer. That is my
impression anyway.
Violence
""""""""
Several posters have used the proverb "violence is always an option" as
proof that Orlanthi society is a very violent one. Am I the only one
to think that this proverb cuts both ways? Yes, of course it means
"you always have the option of violence," but it also means "violence
is only one of your options."
Klaus O K
---------------------
From: Crypt...@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sandy On Herd Animals
Message-ID: <940920094...@aol.com>
Date: 20 Sep 94 13:48:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6287
Sandy,
I for one would be more than happy for more information about Praxian
wildlife.
-Matt
(aka Crypt...@aol.com)
---------------------
From: T.J....@soton.ac.uk (T.J.Minas)
Subject: Oops! Mea Culpa.. Too much *POW*ZIE!* Pavis stays put
Message-ID: <1994092013...@willow.soton.ac.uk>
Date: 20 Sep 94 15:53:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6288
(Humble cough) Umm, yes, well, I have to own up to a great boo-
boo in my last message, in which I (incorrectly) placed Pavis on
the North and east of the Zola Fel. All I can offer in mitigation
is that I had composed this secion after an evening at the Geo's
Shadows Dance Inn, and several glasses of a fuming Trollish brew!
Please therefore ignore my comments about Pavis teleporting
etc, I was looking at the map upside down......... (Fumble on my
mapmaking roll/world lore/Prax lore etc!)
Abject squirming apologies
Tim
---------------------
From: SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 724-9843)
Subject: Granite Phalanx, Bloggom Marsh
Message-ID: <01HHBZ1DC...@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 20 Sep 94 05:34:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6289
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 13:37:00 EST
Subject: totrm #12
Sender: "Harald Smith (617) 724-9843" <SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
To: Rune...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.Com
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Posting-date: Mon, 19 Sep 1994 13:48:00 EST
Importance: normal
A1-type: MAIL
Hi all--
Kudos to all on the great 'colour' special. In terms of use and
personal interest, I would put it in the top 3 issues.
The timing of Granite Phalanx was particularly good since my players are
just in the process of establishing a Lunar colony along the Elf Sea and
will be recruiting good lunar veterans to help it along. I can picture
the Granite Phalanx veterans arriving now. Of course, that raised one
immediate question--do retirees retain any access to their rune magic
or are they considered totally cut off from this once they leave the
regiment?
I noted that Devin has already run Queen Ozcag's Hall and asks about the
Bloggom Marshes. Given that the Gates of Dusk can be heard nearby, I
would assume these marshes are somewhere in the midst of Luathela (shown
only on the old RQ 2 world map) and thus well north-west of Slon (more
or less straight west from Magasta's Pool/Jrustela). Perhaps the
marshes are along one of the coasts (purple salt water?) and kind turtle
gods or Yggs Island raiders can rescue them (or the Luatha take them on
board one of their nice purple ships?). Or since the Bloodbirds noted
in the Puzzle Canal in the Big Rubble pack are supposed to be from the
west, maybe your characters can encounter a nice 'friendly' flock?
Both Warhamster and Runepower were worthwhile additions. I think I'll
find the mass battle rules quite useful.
Harald
---------------------
From: s...@liverpool.ac.uk (Mr S.W. Jones)
Subject: Chump of the Year Award Goes to...
Message-ID: <1994092016...@uxb.liv.ac.uk>
Date: 20 Sep 94 18:28:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6290
Most humble apologies to all and sundry,
In horror, I read today's (Tuesday) Digest to find the mail,
which it had supposedly lost. Keeping it brief, our new managed PC system
has a few bugs in it's e-mail.
Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
Simon.
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Gustbran shrines; PenDragon Pass
Message-ID: <1994092016...@radiomail.net>
Date: 20 Sep 94 16:51:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6291
Joerg said
>In East Ralios there might be horse fairs which will attract blacksmiths
>(ok, bronze working horse-shoeing smiths), who will be the local
>horse-healers as well, and therefore taken along to give their expertise
>on the specimen for sale or for breeding contracts. Excellent background
>for all kind of roleplaying activities...
Actually, horse fairs might attract Galanini raiders, who would
self-righteously try to free their brethren.
It seems unlikely you could get 150 initiates of Gustbran together in one
place to form even a Minor Temple. Sure, there are that many clans, but
they're not all friendly, and they're geographically dispersed. And if you
can only get a shrine together once a year at a fair, priests are seriously
limited as to rune magic reusability...
People interested in the latest PenDragon Pass rules should e-mail me your
POSTAL address; I'll send you a copy next time I go to the copy shop. The
rules are not available electronically unless you have exactly the same
software configuration I do.
---------------------
From: Michell...@ed.gov (Michelle Ringo)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 16 Sep 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <9408207800....@ed.gov>
Date: 20 Sep 94 18:10:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6292
Thanks for the many comments on Yelornans. I do have the RQ
2 write up. However, it does not help much with actual
attitudes and role playing. But the various comments that
people have provided have been very helpful. I will
continue to try and be as Solar as I can be. My
Yelornans definitely despise Trolls. Chalana Arroys have
been fairly friendly even to the extent of one (based on
random chance) being available in Sun County to resurrect
one of my Yelornans (who was on a mission in the Big Rubble
to retrieve Balaster's axe for the Aldrymi) and was killed
horribly by a basilisk (who was caged with the @*#! axe).
Question for those familiar with Sun County. Do you think
that Yelorans can join the Sun County militia and work
themselves into a position to become Templars?