Government by Randomocracy
Ranma Al'Thor
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Dr. Scott (ds...@acpub.duke.edu) wrote:
: One question, in this hypothetical state are people payed for service?
: If people are not payed for service then only the wealthy can afford
: service and the state becomes an aristocracy. If people are payed, how do
: you tell the ones who really want to serve from the ones who couldn't hold
: down a job otherwise? Do we wind up with the hard core unemployables
: being our cherished citizens and those who are devoted to their
: careers/businesses becoming noncitizens? Also, what happens when the
: economy goes bad? If everyone is guaranteed service that wants it, the
: state may become totalitarian in the name of finding jobs for everyone.
Having missed some of the earlier parts of this discussion, and not having
read the original Starship Troopers either, I may be talking smack, but...
My understanding is that you did a term of service (four years?) and then
you became a citizen. I don't think this would cause an unworkable
financial burden, because a fair # of countries require a term of military
service from everyone after high school without bankrupting themselves.
It's not a matter of finding work for life for people; it's a matter of
using a small proportion of the population to do things (like military
service), which have to be done anyway, whether you make it a means of
citizenship or not. Also, at the age at which you typically do service,
you still have the rest of your life ahead of you to do whatever you want;
most high school/college graduates have yet to become key to the nation's
economic life.
But I also agree with your comment that such a term of service doesn't
really do anything to guarantee that those who become citizens adopt a
given code of ethics or somehow prove their fitness to have the vote.
--
John Walter Biles : MA-History, ABD, Ph.D Candidate at U. Kansas
ra...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu
rh...@tass.org http://www.tass.org/~rhea/falcon.html
rh...@maison-otaku.net http://www.maison-otaku.net/~rhea/
"Anybody touches my radishes and it's war!"
--KODT #1
aetherson
ra...@falcon.cc.ukans.edu (Ranma Al'Thor) wrote:
> Having missed some of the earlier parts of this discussion, and not
having
> read the original Starship Troopers either, I may be talking smack,
but...
>
> My understanding is that you did a term of service (four years?) and
then
> you became a citizen. I don't think this would cause an unworkable
> financial burden, because a fair # of countries require a term of
military
> service from everyone after high school without bankrupting
themselves.
> It's not a matter of finding work for life for people; it's a matter
of
> using a small proportion of the population to do things (like military
> service), which have to be done anyway, whether you make it a means of
> citizenship or not. Also, at the age at which you typically do
service,
> you still have the rest of your life ahead of you to do whatever you
want;
> most high school/college graduates have yet to become key to the
nation's
> economic life.
This is a correct assessment of the original Starship Troopers
scenario, though I think the term might have been only two years. Not
sure, though.
> But I also agree with your comment that such a term of service doesn't
> really do anything to guarantee that those who become citizens adopt a
> given code of ethics or somehow prove their fitness to have the
vote.
Heinlein touches on this matter explicitely in STARSHIP TROOPERS. He
points out that veterans are not "better people" than anyone else, but
suggests that tying the vote to some kind of responsible service ends
up biasing the matter slightly.
I believe that his summary of the situation is, "It works. It seems to
work as well or better than anything else we've tried, and that's about
all that's good that you can say about it."
Heinlein was not, I think, as interested in the governmental specifics
of the STARSHIP TROOPERS universe as the society it existed in. The
return of a hardcore, punishment-based system in which people were held
accountable for their actions, regardless of whether they would be
considered competent by 20th Century standards. He through in
the "service to become a citizen" in order to make it more attractive
to his protagonist and as a consequence of the conservative movement
which created this harsher society, not as being causal to the harsher
society. I think.
Mike (aetherson)
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