RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 10 Jan 1994, part 1
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
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after the last message in this digest.
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From: stor...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Tim Westlake)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 8 Jan 94 13:15:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2758
In-Reply-To: <RQD940106p2@Glorantha>
In the 6th of January digest Nick Brooke asks
> Has anyone else on the Daily ever had to fill out a U.S. visa form?
Yes, and I deny being a nazi war criminal as well! (what are those
imigration people on?)
------------
David Dunham mentioned the Mongols
We in the UK had a great TV documentry series last year about the
Mongols (Storm from the East) which had some great info on these guys.
One of the tricks they used was to wear silk shirts under their leather
armor. If they were hit by an arrow, this would penetrate the leather
and stick into them. It would not break the silk however and the shirt
would be wraped around the head of the arrow. Most damage from an arrow
is caused when you remove it (the barbs etc) but with the silk wrapped
around the arrow head made the removal much more easily and cleanly (!)
When they attacked Eastern Europe they managed to wipe out the cream of
European chivalry in a couple of battles. The reason they were so
effective was that they cheated (they used tactics! - damn underhand if
you ask me :-). The only reason that all of western europe wasnt over
run was that the Khan died so they all turned round and went home!
-----------------
Nils Hammer in the 8th of january digest
> The unmounted warriors work in teams of 2. One has a two-handed sword,
> and the other a two-handed shield. The shieldman takes the on-coming
> lance by parry or getting run through. The swordsman steps out from
> behind the shield and cleaves the horse as it goes by.
I have heard this too. ISTR it was a viking trick but cant vouch for it.
------------------------
Troll eating habbits
Trolls will eat almost anything (see the original Troll Pack). From the
Kygor Litor section of Cults of Prax :
" They are religiously obligated to eat Aldryami, and are said to prefer
the flesh of dwarves over any other. Children of humans are prefered for
holiday feasts, but they complain about the ashy taste of dragonnewt
flesh whilse they eat it."
and Re Karrgs sons
"They must ritually eat a large quantity of some vegitable matter.
(Elves are considered vegetable matter.) On each seasonal Holy Day a
Rune Lord must eat a relative. (This can be a trollkin.)"
Eating sentients is a part of basic troll culture as instructed by Kygor
Litor herself. It would reasonable to assume that trolls who dont eat
sentients are probably considered very strange if not social outcasts.
Human morals about not eating things that talk would appear to be the
odd one out of the Gloranthan races, I mean the dragon arnt fussy either
and would you want to argue with one of them?
----------------
Thanks for the info supplied about the Seven Mothers. I think that I
will have to either wait for a Lunar suppliment (I'm not holding my
breath) or write up my own. Ho hum.
Tim
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <940108210...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 8 Jan 94 09:00:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2759
Andrew Raphael opines:
>I think that Waha's Covenant forces morokanth living under it to
>make a careful distinction between herd men (who lost the toss) and
>humans (who won the toss). Assuming that sable riders don't eat
>bison riders, then no morokanth initiate of Waha or Eiritha would
>eat a human without risking apostasy.
Clearly I disagree, based on my recent opinionating on this subject.
One: The morokanth are creatures of Darkness, with emotions, lusts,
and needs alien to humanity. Two: it's not "cannibalism" to eat a
human if you're a morokanth -- a social faux pas at worst. Three: why
is it "apostasy" to eat a human for Waha or Eiritha morokanth? It's
not apostasy to eat a number of animals not included in the Waha
covenant (jackrabbits, cattle, birds, locusts, etc.) Humans possess
the cultural norm (and I think rightly so) that it is bad to eat any
sentient being. I concur with this cultural norm, but it doesn't mean
the morokanth concur.
I think the picky social distinction between man and herd-man is MUCH
more important to the humans than it ever is to the morocanth. After
all, Waha said that the morokanth are supposed to eat people, right?
I believe that a sizable fraction of morokanth feel that the proper
order of things, according to Waha's covenant, is morocanth eat
people who eat herd-beasts who eat grass. The herd-man spell is
simply to make the humans more tranquil and easy to handle.
Even among the humans of Prax, I believe that the herd-man situation
results in a good deal of ambivalence among the beast-riders. It's
clearly distasteful (though technically okay) to eat a herd-man (just
as even the Lunars won't eat the human parts of a walktapus), so what
do you do with one? I bet there's lots of ribald jokes in Prax about
milking herd-women. In the end, I expect most captive herd-men are
sold back to the morokanth, or sacrificed in rites of darkness. But I
don't think many herd-men are captured. The morokanth are not as easy
to raid as the human tribes, and their "cattle" are not so valuable.
I generally play the morokanth rites of Waha and Eiritha as being
significantly-different from the human ones. Many humans don't even
want to think about the implications of morokanth that are highly
skilled in the Peaceful Cut (i.e., killing humans with a single blow
-- the origin of the morokanth Martial Arts?)
On the other hand, I've been called a morokanth-basher. I've also
been called anti-elf, anti-dwarf, etc. I think that the secret is
that I try hard to make sure that the non-humans in my campaign don't
behave like humans, or even in acceptable-to-human manners. I find
highly colorful nonhumans far more interesting than the usual D&Dish
"humans in a furry suit".
STORY TIME: While running a pickup RQ game, I suddenly discovered
that one of the participants was playing a dwarf. I made a comment
that it was a good thing the party was in a bar, because no doubt
she'd be drinking plenty of booze. She said no, she was a teetotaler.
I thought that was unusual. Because my NPCs generally react to the
(unusual) presence of nonhumans, the barmaid made a crack about the
dwarf being short and stubby. The player said that HER dwarf was tall
and willowy. I was amazed, and said, "What an unusual dwarf you have.
I'm very impressed." Then the player lectured me about racial
prejudice and stereotyping.
I said, "They're RQ dwarfs, mostali! Who the heck cares if I
racially stereotype them?" She was adamant that stereotyping of
non-human imaginary races was JUST AS BAD as such stereotypes about
blacks, jews, or other ethnic groups. Almost speechless, I gibbered,
"But the entire purpose of nonhumans in fantasy games is to provide
stereotypes to play off of! Even when people run 'different'
nonhumans from the rest, like tough elves, it's to provide contrast
with the bulk of their species." She didn't see it, and wouldn't even
buy my theory that "clearly your dwarf is different from most
dwarfs," saying that I couldn't fairly have preconceptions about ANY
dwarfs. In the end, wishing to get on with the game. I just said,
"well, most of the humans in this area are racially prejudiced, I
guess, and they have a lot of preconceptions about dwarfs." That
satisfied her. This was in the days before Political Correctness, by
the way, but I guess she was ahead of her time.
>There's a Waha Rune spell that turns humans into herd men. That's
>part of the magical ecology of Prax. I think it should work on
>Wereran humans only.
I feel that the Kralorelan, Agimori, and Veldang humans are not a
different species from the Wereran, so the spell should work on them.
Though their ancestors (might) not have participated in the covenant
of Waha, they certainly engaged in some other similar rite of
prehistory in which mankind was differentiated from not-men.
I never heard of kuru being called the "ghost disease" before. I
always heard of it as the "laughing sickness". And it was not the
cause of the elimination of cannibalism among the Fore tribe (they
ate their own deceased family members as a sign of respect). Rather
governmental intervention caused the cessation of this funeral rite.
Lewis(?) says:
>Great Trolls were a half successful attempt by Crag Spider to
>recreate the Mistress Race.
I think they were actually made to break the trollkin curse, one of
two such semi-successful attempts. The second such attempt resulted
in the birth of multiple trollkin per pregnancy (before that,
trollkin came singly, just like trolls). This second attempt was
pretty important to the trolls -- imagine the pitiful status of the
troll race if trollkin were not even plentiful!
Watson asks:
>What is the result if the various different types of elementals are
>set against each other in combat?
I think they should have a definite effect upon one another. In
addition, elementals of "dominant" types should have an advantage
over their inferiors.
Here is my suggestion (I've tried this and it works, but of course
some other technique might be even better). I have the elementals
fight one another in a sort of spirit combat. A victory costs the
defending elemental 2d6 MPs, and 2 cubic meters of SIZ. When a
"dominant" type attacks its inferior, the dominant gives the other
3d6 MP/3 cubic meter loss on a win, while the inferior does only 1d6
MP/1 cubic meter on a win. Combat must continue till one elemental is
destroyed. Anyone entering the elemental combat zone suffers
automatic attacks from both elementals. Normally I don't bother to
figure out the new stats of the victorious elemental (assuming its
lost cubic meters of SIZ) until the battle is entirely finished.
Darkness > Earth > Air > Water > Fire > Darkness
Lunes are not dominant to anything.
Dave Dunham:
Once more tries to defend the Aztecs.
>The only protein source is humans. (Note that some people think this
>is almost the same situation facing the Aztecs, who packed a whole
>lot of people into the Valley of Mexico).
See here Dave, the Aztec crime was human sacrifice, not cannibalism.
Sure the priests ate portions of the sacrificed bodies, but this
didn't solve any protein shortage for their teeming population. In
any case, they had beans and corn for effective protein substitutes,
plus plenty of fish in the lake they lived on.
>Why can't YA have both Kill Horse (really annoys the leader of the
>nomads) and Frighten Horse (to work against the whole horde)?
She can, she can! But Kill Horse is a new spell, not previously
included in her cult. How about if Kill Horse cannot be resisted, but
is a 2-point one-use spell? Does that seem fair? Remember that most
Kill Horse attempts will be against very special (maybe even
sentient) horses.
Anti-Cavalry tactics:
The techniques used by the peasant Jacquerie rebellion in
14th-century France is probably inappropriate to Lunar training, but
certainly bears repeating. Both techniques required waiting until the
knight had completed his charge and was engaged in melee, slashing
with sword or axe while the horse kicked and bit.
One technique was to use long hooks (either billhooks, or metal
pitchforks with one prong bent back) to pull a knight off his horse.
The other was to have a (ballsy) guy actually roll UNDER the horse
with a knife and slash at its tendons. Both techniques had the
immediate goal in mind of dismounting the rider. Once down, guys
armed with mauls would pop open the knight's armor to get at the
meat.
The Jacquerie methods, and Nils Hammer's method of combining a tower
shield and greatsword both are pretty much only good vs. heavy or
medium cavalry. The basic Lunar problem would seem to be the fact
that properly-trained infantry can generally defeat any cavalry force
except for horse archers. You need light cavalry of your own to beat
the horse archers, and they'll get whupped by the Pent medium and
light cavalry, who are (let's face it) likely to be superior to the
Lunar cavalry, few of whom were born on horseback.
---------------------
From: ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28)
Subject: "SACRIFICE AND YARA ARANIS ARCHERY MAGIC
Message-ID: <5381*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 7 Jan 94 16:37:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2760
Colin Watson in X-RQ-ID: 2743
>David Dunham wrote:
>>Orlanthi culture is sort of a cross between Cymric/Celtic and Viking.
>I never really saw what was so Celtic about Orlanthi. A Storm God certainly
>doesn't seem very Celtic to me. They're more like Vikings without ships.
E.g. the way they combine warrior god worship with earth mother worship.
The Vikings had MALE fertility deities, most prominently Freyr, but also
Thor. Freya had little to do with agricultural fertility...
Another thing is the ritual sacrifice of kings after a certain period of
time, like in Tarsh, the elective King motive, the Great Marriage motive
(very prominent in KoS, CHDP has at least five narrations about it:
Ironhoof's courting of the Wild Lady, Arim the Pauper's courting of Sorana
Tor, Sartar's wooing of the Feathered Horse Queen, Tarkalor's and Phargentes
courting of the Feathered Horse Queen, and of course Argrath's multiple
marriages to an earth priestess (of Grazelands, of Holay, of Saird), the
clothing and general appearance of the Orlanthi (c.f. Walter Moore's
excellent cover illustration of TotRM 9), their urban societies in oppida (
ask Nick Brooke about Whitewall), a circle of oaks on a hilltop as temple
ground, ... (running out of first ideas)
_______________
>Human Sacrifice:
>My tuppence to add to the ongoing discussion:
>Remember, in the real world it wasn't only outsiders and enemies who were
>sacrificed; victims were sometimes extracted from the ranks of followers
>(and even leaders). Sometimes it was an honour to be sacrificed; folks even
>volunteered.
E.g. the Norsemen. Read the Ynglingatal by Snorre Sturlason, the ynglinga
leader who settled Jaemtland was sacrificed when the third bad year in a
row occured (after beast sacrifices the first year, slave sacrifice the
second year). BTW, the bad years were due to overpopulation, and when the
gods didn't change this even after one of their descendants had been
sacrificed, some of them moved on and solved the problem the mundane way.
>This is true of the Celts, tho I dunno about the Aztecs (didn't
>one of their methods involve playing some kinda ballgame to elect victims?).
The flower wars are, at least in fiction, depicted as a convenient way to
provide a) sacrifices and b) protein nutrition to the masses. The ball
gamers were the Maya, if I remember correctly.
>In Glorantha I think chaos cultists are as likely to go around sacrificing
>each other rather than outsiders who's souls are pledged to other gods already.
One of the points of death by chaos is the severing of ties to the worlds
by dissolution in the void. Only Storm Bull can assure to recover the
deceased from chaos annihilation, and then only into his realm of afterlife.
Thus I'd expect chaotics to use non-chaotic sacrifices just out of spite.
They're evil, after all :-)
_____________________________
>Sandy wrote about Yara Aranis:
>>...some kind of anti-archery spell, the exact nature of which escapes me.
>>...no doubt the RQ Daily can come up with a
>>better spell than we had then. I hereby throw it out to you guys.
>>What's the anti-archery spell of YA?
>Well, I don't know if YA has any runic justification for this, but the
>best way to screw archers would be with a spell which increased the
>strength of the wind locally (like Cloudcall increases cloud cover). If
>they could whip up a gale (with several/many castings I guess) then any
>missile fire would become pointless. Granted, the downside is that the YAs
>couldn't use their crossbows, but so what? real men fight toe-to-toe.
>(I suppose the perfect spell would have a lull every coupla rounds so you
>can fire yer crossbow - but that's a touch game-mechanicky...)
>(And note, of course, that Sureshot whould ignore the effects of wind-strength.)
No it isn't, unless you create whirlwinds or alternating wind forces. I've
shot fairly reliably into a five metre radius circle over 165 metres with
(real world) wind strength 11 against the wind. I think a horde of
advancing troops can be abstracted as such a circle. Of course, you don't
aim at single targets any more, but the chances that there is someone when
the arrow comes down are good enough to be worth the ammo.
>'course, a wind-affecting spell would have other uses too: at sea for example;
>or against airborne attackers.
The only Lunar Storm power I know of is Molanni. not quite what one would
need...
If you want to annoy archers, weaken their bows, so that range, damage and
reliability are reduced. I know of one inccident in the Cid's Spain where
the moorish horse archery was rendered useless because heavy rain dissolved
the glue of their composite bows.
Too bad Heler's a chum of Orlanth, too...
So affect the bow directly. Soften the material, and the archer is out of
the game.
What I cannot figure out is how to coordinate the spell attacks so that
there are no duplicate bow diminishments. This calls rather for area
effects. (the same goes for frightening the horses, by the way).
Maybe sudden, dense fog would do the trick - with visibility and bow force
reduced, the horse archers do get problems. Stationary missile troops can
continue to fire, unless there is a shortage of ammo. Just knowing the
ballistics and the general direction is enough against massed enemies.
Justy my 0.02 DM
Joerg Baumgartner
ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de
---------------------
From: mcar...@fit.qut.edu.au (Mr Robert McArthur)
Subject: Protection forts/stockades give?
Message-ID: <1994011000...@fitmail.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 10 Jan 94 15:03:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2761
In an old rq2 game, the Lunars had come to Prax and are trying to settle
things down a bit. They have come to Barbarian Town, the start of *many*
good adventures for rq fans I bet, and started building a stockade of
sorts. Now, for various reasons some characters wanted to see/be inside the
gates. One idea was to go inside in spirit form (discorporation, shamans
etc) The GM said that when the stockade was created, spirits were bound
inside the walls to protect the place, check people going through the
gates, as well as those attempting to climb the walls stealthly at night
et al. Now, it seems to me that, if you have such spirits, you hardly need
many troops walking around protecting the place. They could all be inside
imbibing the local juniper juice waiting for the spirit to rush in and warn
them exactly who and where the intruders are. Anticlimax or so...
Comments from anyone? Are spirits normally bound like this? How many of
them? Size of them? Can they detect enemies (and of whom)? Can they engage
in spirit combat with a spirit coming through the wall? Over the wall? Under
the walls?
Annoyed beaten-up character spirits want to know!
Robert
---------------------
From: mcar...@fit.qut.edu.au (Mr Robert McArthur)
Subject: sacrifice
Message-ID: <1994011000...@fitmail.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 10 Jan 94 15:07:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2762
...and on the matter of (human) sacrifices, doesn't a Zorak Zoran Death Lord
have to eat a troll of kin each season? or am I just an outdated RQ2er...
Robert
---------------------
From: pmic...@aol.com
Subject: various stuff
Message-ID: <940109231...@aol.com>
Date: 10 Jan 94 04:14:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2763
Hi all! Sorry it's taken me so long to get back on some of this stuff, but
you know how life is.
re: passion spirits
I also thought about calling the lazyness spirit a sloth spirit, but then I
imagined seeing something like: Sloth Spirit - A spirit which manifests as
the fuzzy face of an animal floating in the air. If a person is posessed by
this spirit, they have an uncontrollable urge to hang motion
lessly from their hands and feet in the branches of a tree, slowly chewing
leaves.
Ahhh, I'm probably making too much of this. Given the historic use of the
name for the vice, sloth spirit it is.
Thom: you noted that most folks do not use the fatigue rules as written.
Good point. I like both yo
ur and Sandy's ideas about the person posessed avoiding hard labor.
Sandy: I agree that the greed spirit is something that should be inflicted
only on characters whose players enjoy the role-playing aspect of the game.
Personally, I think that this should probably be the case for anything which
changes the personality of a PC beyond what the player has developed. I
also liked your suggestion about a s
pirit that affects a person's magical abilities, which has got me to thinking
some more. Perhaps I
'll post my thoughts when they are clarified a bit more.
Joerg: I'm very interested in the tex
t from your Free INT #2 article on emotion spirits, even if it is in German.
If it's OK with Markus Weiand, can you email it to me? Perhaps I can find
someone to translate it for me.
on to other topics....
Sam: I enjoyed your one complete Sartar nursery rhyme. My two year old son
Benjamin has taken
to it too, and at least every other day for the last few weeks asks me to say
"Knock, knock
" with him. :-) If you find your other ones, I'd like to see them.
On the White Moon Movement: I think that at least one contingent of this
movement should be made up of illuminated ogres who worship Cacodemon and are
fanatically dedicated pacifistic anarchists. Thoughts?
I don't know what the anti-archery Yara Aranis rune magic spell is, but I do
have an interesting spirit magic spell to share, which might fit in
somewhere:
Bowslow - Variable, Ranged, Temporal, Passive
Despite the name, this spell affects any missile fired by a weapon. Once cast
on the firing weapon (bow, crossbow, sling, etc...), all missiles fired from
that weapon do 3 less points of damage and subtract 15 percentiles from the
attack chance. This effect is can be countered by the spirit magic spell
Speedart for a specific missile. This spell will effect magical missiles
created by the spirit magic spell Multimissile.
Lastly, in looking at the actual usage of a word (which has changed since
first introduced), I'd like to offer the follow
ing only-half-serious definition for :
gregged, gregged v.t. To be corrected regarding information about Glorantha
due to published information being revised or unavailable, or due to the lack
of published information; to learn that the underlying assumptions you have
made about Glorantha and have developed into key elements in your campaign
were discussed and rejected over 10 years ago in a conversation privy only to
three players in the original Gloranthan house campaign but they never told
anyone else about it until YOU brought it up. ;-)
Does anyone else have other definitions?
Peace, Peter
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: x82...@fcusqnt.fcu.edu.tw (Bill Robertson)
Subject: Ritual of Rebirth and breeding?
Message-ID: <940110045...@fcusqnt.fcu.edu.tw>
Date: 10 Jan 94 20:57:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2764
Sandy Peterson writes...
> Mother Offspring
> Uzuz 50/50 uzko/uzuz
> Uzko 50/50 uzko/enlo litter (1d6)
> Enlo enlo
Does a "normal" being who has undergone the ritual of rebirth have the same
chances as an Uzko? I added the "normal" because Arkat was reborn as an
Uzuz, and I haven't heard of that happening to anyone else, and I'm
inclined to believe that it hasn't.
-Bill Robertson
---------------------
From: WAL...@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (Personal friend of Little Elvis)
Subject: Gloranthan language list
Message-ID: <01H7HUO2V...@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU>
Date: 9 Jan 94 18:10:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2765
I have made an alphabetical list of regions of Glorantha (Genertela), their
corresponding language, and their related languages. I made this because I
always wished there was an official list like this. An entry looks something
like:
Ralios Ralian 1/2 Seshnegi, 1/5 Western
I did try to use official sources when possible, but I make no claim
for complete accuracy. It is around 140 lines so I thought I'd ask if
anyone wanted to see it first. Does anyone want to see it?
Ed Wal...@vax2.winona.msus.edu
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Tarsh Exiles - 0.02 DM
Message-ID: <H.ea.kcM...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 10 Jan 94 07:44:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2766
malco...@aol.com in X-RQ-ID: 2756
>I am trying to flesh out the Tarsh Exiles and the Wintertop region for use as
>a campaign setting.
>[35000 inhabitants of Wintertop lands] This contradicts
> the many statements that claim that the Exiles have stopped farming and rely
>exculsively on raiding . While I believe that the Exiles definately raid to
>aquire goods, I find it hard to believe that 35,000 settle people could
>survive primarily on bounty from raiding.
They might well have stopped raisng crops only to be burned by invading
neighbours, and taken to herding as main means of survival. After all,
a herd can be withdrawn from invaded area, a field of grain can't. Then
there might be some people who call themselves Exiles, and a native
populace not unlike the Grazeland Vendrefs who provide their lords with
agricultural produce.
What are the relations between Wintertop and Delecti? We know that
Lismelder lands are a Humakt stronghold for obvious reasons, but what
about the other side of the marsj? Do the Exiles maintain a stretch of
running water on their bank of the marsh to prevent Zombies from
crossing?
>Since a female dominated cult rules the region I must suppose that women have
>more power in the Exile communty than in normal Orlanthi society. They are
>probably in general the dominant sex in the region.
Dominant sex? I'd expect some kind of division into mens' jobs, womens'
jobs, and common jobs for both sexes, similar to some of the Praxian
tribes.
>While it's clear that the Maran Gor priestesses and their counsel are in
>complete control of the region, I'd bet that there is an Orlanthi ring of
>males that aids the priestesses in their rule. If nothing else they could
>serve as "kings" for sacrifice to the godess.
They may be so today. In earlier times they were but one of many
contestant parties, which came to power with the Illaro dynasty.
>I tend to believe from hints given in KOS that the original Tarshites where
>pursuaded by the Maran Gor priestesses to practice ritual sacrifice of their
>male leaders, and therefore the Exiles being the last remenant of Old Tarsh
>and the stronghold of Maran Gor most likely continue this tradition.
Not the original Pauper dynasty, it were the Illaro kings which (re-?)
started the sacrficial king business.
>Is there any information on the High Priestess available, other than the fact
>that she's a VERY heavy woman? What about the TWINS counter in the DP game?
>It's my guess that they are a set of one male and one female twins, who are
>perhaps the offspring of the brother of the High Priestess. (Based on the KOS
>Tarsh chapter which prominently features a male and female set of twin
>heroes.)
The most detailed information I remember is in the TotRM 6 Maran Gor
write-up. Steve Gilham's ideas about the earth sisters in the same
issue were somewhat refuted by Greg Stafford in later letters, but
still hold a lot of useful ideas for an Earth-goddess dominated
male-led society.
My impression was that the twins actually are Arim the Pauper's
children, possibly reincarnated, possibly summoned by the Kero Fin
Earth temple (not just Maran Gor, all six of them).
>Also from the KOS Tarsh article I would guess that the vast majority of the
>Exiles are members of the Kerofineli Tribe.
It's the land which gave them their name, after all, although there was
a major portion of them moved to Alone during Tarkalor's reign. THe
Kerofini mentioned in KoS 156 to join Prince Argrath's rule could have
been those resettled former Exiles.
>Now for some final questions. Does anyone have any information about the othe
>DP game named units? The Moon Haters? The Old School? The Baron's Friends?
>And who's the Baron? Any guesses?
Some guesses were made by John Castellucci in RQ Adventures 2
concerning the Moon Haters. Discussion about DP units resulted in
"These magical units were created by Argrath to counter the Lunar ones,
and the Exiles probably copied this praxis from him". In case of the
Old School and the (Sartarite) Free Philosophers I tend to doubt that
the organisations were new, only their use in warfare was. The Moon
Haters could well be one of the secret societies like those Argrath
seems so fond of joining and aquiring.
What bugged me most is the appearance of the two "archers" units only
for the Exiles in DP. Why do the Exiles have longbowmen, and neither
the Tarshites nor the Sartarites? Arrowound is too far off to explain
this mythologically, and anyway the Colymar seem to have come from
Esrolia, close to Arrowmound in the Skyreach Mountains. Or is this an
indication that Elmal/Yelmalio worshippers are more frequent around
Wintertop than e.g. around Aldachur (Alda Chur?), so that their (solar)
cult weapon, the bow, found spread application?
Another question:
What kind of race are the Earth Shakers? They remained during the
inhuman occupation. The Earth Shakers' DP counter shows a gnome-like
humanoid.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
X-RQ-ID: Extro
[The rules of the game]
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This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
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More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
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---------------------
From: schu...@kirk.fmi.uni-passau.de (Erik Schumann)
Subject: Q: Calender and Holy Days
Message-ID: <1994011010...@kirk.fmi.uni-passau.de>
Date: 10 Jan 94 12:16:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2767
Hello out there.
I was just wandering about the Holy Days on Glorantha.
Certainly there is this Praxian Calender with the Holy Days of _some_
Deitys, but there is no statement on _why_ certain Dietys have their
Holy Day on that special Day.
So its difficult to make up your own Holy Days for the Missing Gods (
e.g. Ernalda)
Some possibilty to solve the Problem could be a kind of calendar,
where you take the matching Runes from each season, week and day and
try to match them to some Runes of the Gods.
But does it work ?
Have a nice day,
Erik.
---------------------
From: wat...@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: anti-archery; elementals; celts...
Message-ID: <9401101038.AA13507@condor>
Date: 10 Jan 94 10:38:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2768
_____
Sandy wrote:
>Probably a poor choice for a Lunar (i.e., anti-storm) god.
I thought the Lunar anti-storm stance was the result of circumstance (ie. the
Orlanthi cause trouble for the Empire so the Lunars don't like Orlanth) rather
than general inclination. Wouldn't Lunars exploit storm magic like any other
type of magic if they got the chance?
Concerning elementals:
>Darkness > Earth > Air > Water > Fire > Darkness
That circle of dominance is a neat insight.
Wish I'd thought of it.
_______
Joerg's wrote his 0.02DM:
>CW>>I never really saw what was so Celtic about Orlanthi
>
>the way they combine warrior god worship with earth mother worship...
>Another thing is the ritual sacrifice of kings after a certain period of
>time, like in Tarsh, the elective King motive, the Great Marriage motive...
[etc. etc.]
Ok, Joerg, I'm convinced. ;-)
>CW>the best way to screw archers would be with a spell which increased the
>CW>strength of the wind locally (like Cloudcall increases cloud cover)
>
>No it isn't, unless you create whirlwinds or alternating wind forces. I've
>shot fairly reliably into a five metre radius circle over 165 metres with
>(real world) wind strength 11 against the wind.
I believe you. I based my idea upon the RQ rules for wind-strength/missile
fire, not upon any semblance of the real-world realities...
I also forgot about the benefit of firing into massed groups of targets -
in battle conditions this would probably override all other factors (even
the wind).
>If you want to annoy archers, weaken their bows, so that range, damage and
>reliability are reduced. I know of one inccident in the Cid's Spain where
>the moorish horse archery was rendered useless because heavy rain dissolved
>the glue of their composite bows.
You're right, I forgot about this one. Comp bows don't work in damp climates;
just as longbows don't work in arid conditions (they dry out and become
brittle).
>Maybe sudden, dense fog would do the trick - with visibility and bow force
>reduced, the horse archers do get problems.
Yes, pity that the Orlanthi seem to have a monopoly on decent weather magic...
___
CW.
---------------------
From: j...@cs.tut.fi (Laajam{ki Jorma)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 10 Jan 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <1994011010...@hakki.cs.tut.fi>
Date: 10 Jan 94 14:43:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2769
Please Add me on RQ Daily mailing list
j...@cs.tut.fi
---------------------
From: j...@cs.tut.fi (Laajam{ki Jorma)
Subject: line. RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 10 Jan 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <1994011011...@hakki.cs.tut.fi>
Date: 10 Jan 94 15:11:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2770
What`s the story about Gold wheel dancers?
I like to know more, i know they all should
be death, but nobody ever knows..
---------------------
From: fin...@cs.unibo.it (Michele Finelli)
Subject: Subscribe & Unsubscribe
Message-ID: <1994011013...@ramphis.cs.unibo.it>
Date: 10 Jan 94 15:06:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2771
Please Henk:
Subscribe fin...@cs.unibo.it
Unsubscirbe ven...@cs.unibo.it
my account has changed from venturi to finelli and so....
Greetings
---------------------
From: JAR...@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: YA anti archery spell
Message-ID: <940110140...@Sun.COM>
Date: 10 Jan 94 13:03:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2772
Hi
I have had an idea for the Yara Arnais anti-archery spell.
The spell is designed to allow a few casters to cover a unit.
The protection offered by the spell is not perfect, but allows the
vast majority of a unit to stand up to arrow fire without harm.
Moon Web (aka Moon Beam Web, Goddess' Curtain, Arrow Stopper).
Passive, Temporal, Stackable, Reusable.
The spell creates a shimmering, translucent-crimson, curtain-like web of
moon-beams, which slow down arrows and other objects passing through it.
Each point of the spell creates a 10 metre by 10 metre vertical wall,
which protects everything behind it out to a reasonable distance (at
least 10 metres), which depends on the trajectory of the arrow.
The wall reduces the amount of damage done by arrows and other missile
weapons (except for critical hits) by 1 for every MP that was expended
when the wall was errected.
The wall also slows down charging creatures which reduces their damage
bonus (but not weapon damage) by the strength of the wall. Slow moving
creatures can pass through the web feeling only slight resistance.
Lunar troops shelter behind these walls when fighting cavalry armies.
Crossbowmen can shelter behind the wall only advancing through it to shoot
and retiring to reload.
-----
Lewis
-----
---------------------
From: pmic...@aol.com
Subject: error
Message-ID: <940110094...@aol.com>
Date: 10 Jan 94 14:42:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2773
mea culpa, mea culpa....
Bowslow should be a 3 point spell, not variable. It will reduce the attack
chance on a missile under the effects of Firearrow, but will not reduce the
damage.
Peace, Peter
---------------------
From: wat...@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: spirits bound into areas
Message-ID: <9401101442.AA18942@condor>
Date: 10 Jan 94 14:42:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2774
_______________
Robert McArthur wrote:
>The GM said that when the stockade was created, spirits were bound
>inside the walls to protect the place, check people going through the
>gates, as well as those attempting to climb the walls stealthly at night
>et al. Now, it seems to me that, if you have such spirits, you hardly need
>many troops walking around protecting the place...
>
>Comments from anyone?
As far as RQ3 is concerned, I assume a bound spirit has no perception beyond
the area or object where it is bound (unless it can cast spells like
Second Sight, Project Sight etc.). If a spirit was bound into the walls
then it could sense anyone touching the walls; if it was bound into the area
encompassed by the walls then it could sense anyone passing through that
area. The drawback is that it is very expensive (in terms of POW) to bind
a spirit into a large area (the stockade could be a couple of hundred
square meters, yes?).
When it senses a person, the reaction of the spirit is determined by the
conditions of its binding. It could have a condition to react only to
non-Lunar-initiates for example (although I've no idea how it tests this...).
It could then cast spells to raise alarm or attack the intruders.
>Can they engage in spirit combat with a spirit coming through the wall?
IMO a spirit bound to a mundane object/area no longer has
perception in the spirit plane unless it can cast Second Sight or similar
(but this view was debated a while ago...) so someone could discorporate
and sneak past; however it's also debatable how much of the mundane plane
is perceived by a discorporate shaman - to be useful you'd have to cast
visibility in order to interact with the mundane world otherwise
you'd have great difficulty telling where you were in relation to it.
Even if the bound spirit had some means of detecting a discorporate shaman
(eg. it happened to have cast Second Sight within the last five mins) it
couldn't engage in spirit combat unless it was released from its binding.
(This could be a triggered condition of the binding I suppose).
>Are spirits normally bound like this?
A Warding spell would be a more "normal" way to protect a building; but
there's nothing to stop them Lunars binding spirits if they like.
>How many of them? Size of them?
"How big's a gnome?" as one of my acquaintences once asked.
These questions can only be answered by your GM. There can be as many
spirits as large as your GM's conscience will allow in his/her game.
>Can they detect enemies (and of whom)?
The Detect Enemies spell clearly only senses enemies of the caster (who is the
bound spirit in this case).
>Annoyed beaten-up character spirits want to know!
I think your GM is trying to tell you something.
If I was you, I'd stay away from that stockade until (s)he hints otherwise...
And if you really want to pry into places where you ain't meant to -
run a sorcerer with some Project(Sense) spells. ;->
___
CW.
---------------------
From: jcla...@mathlab.mtu.edu (Joe Lannom)
Subject: Races and fantasy gaming
Message-ID: <940110152...@mathlab.mtu.edu>
Date: 10 Jan 94 15:22:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2775
From the quill of Sandy Peterson:
|> The player said that HER dwarf was tall and willowy. I was amazed, and
|> said, "What an unusual dwarf you have. I'm very impressed." Then the
|> player lectured me about racial prejudice and stereotyping.
I agree that there are varients in the appearance of different individuals
within a race... (the above may be an EXTREME example). However, I'd
remind such a person that this is a BRONZE AGE world. A world where
people are killed JUST because they worship an enemy god, belong to a
different race, have a tendancy to lean towards red as a preffered color
scheme...
If she didn't get jeers from people because she was a dwarf, she'd get
hassled by her own race because she was a FREAK! A miscast cog in the
world machine. A warped sprocket thats bound to be torn off sooner than
later. A phillips head screw with a star shaped head instead of a
cross... She's just not threaded right. Get her out of here. She doesn't
even get a place in the spare parts bin.
If you want to give such a person their own way (ok, so you ARE a thin, 2
meter tall dwarf), find a reasonable explanation for their appearance.
Since dwarves are so, well, weird, I wouldn't think that they could really
crossbreed with humans or trolls, (or cross pollenate with elves), so
maybe her character had hyperthyroidism, or giantism with ALL the
associated health problems.
Race is defined as: a division of mankind possessing traits that are
transmissible by descent and sufficient to characterize it as a distinct
human type.
Most of the dwarves are, well, dwarves... maybe if she had the funky eyes
and the tendancy to pull apart toasters and vacuum cleaners to see how
they work that would still classify her as a dwarf... The elves would
still take her apart on sight. (But thats racist!! Sorry, you didn't say
that in the tongue of the aldryami, they don't seem to understand you...
(hack, hack, hack, beat, beat, beat))
Hmm... maybe it was a chaos feature that she didn't know about...
But enough about that....
joe
---------------------
From: fin...@cs.unibo.it (Michele Finelli)
Subject: Subscribe
Message-ID: <1994011016...@radames.cs.unibo.it>
Date: 10 Jan 94 18:46:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2776
Subscribe fin...@cs.unibo.it
Unsubscribe ven...@cs.unibo.it
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Aztecs; Yara Aranis; fighting archers
Message-ID: <1994011021...@radiomail.net>
Date: 10 Jan 94 21:23:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2777
>From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
>Dave Dunham:
>Once more tries to defend the Aztecs.
Actually, I believe the protein theory is now discredited as the cause of
Aztec cannibalism. And clearly, things were getting out of hand towards the
end. (Apparently for internal reasons, unlike the Northwest Indian
potlatch, which went weird after the population crash caused by European
diseases.)
>How about if Kill Horse cannot be resisted, but
>is a 2-point one-use spell?
Instead of my reusable 3-point spell? Yes, that probably is better.
>The basic Lunar problem would seem to be the fact
>that properly-trained infantry can generally defeat any cavalry force
>except for horse archers
This seems to be the basic problem, period. In my campaign, the horse
archer PCs can generally defeat anything on foot they encounter.
Certainly, the Mongols (and the Scythians) were very good in warfare. But
both cultures used melee weapons from horseback as well as archery. I'm
still trying to figure out how to make this work in game terms -- there
simply doesn't seem to be much reason for people with bows to close. Or
were Mongolian and Scythian heavy cavalry simply to deal with other
cavalry?
Are real world arrows less effective than they are in the game? Are shields
or armor more effective against arows?
---------------------
From: t...@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Tim Leask)
Subject: YA - Frighten Horse
Message-ID: <94011023...@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
Date: 11 Jan 94 15:07:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2778
Having just recently seen on the news the effect fire has on horses
I thought maybe the frighten horse spell is actually a special form of
illusory fire that does no physical damage but is real in all other ways.
The spell would both obscure vision and panic horses. The spell should
be able to be combined from multiple casters to create huge illusions.
What do others think ?
Cheers,
Tim
================================================================================
Department of Computer Science /*\__/\ "Money is something you have in
University of Melbourne < \ case you don't die tomorrow."
Parkville, Vic., 3052, AUSTRALIA \ _ _/ Gordon Gecko.
Phone: +61 3 282 2439 \| --
e-mail: t...@cs.mu.oz.au
================================================================================
---------------------
From: ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: This bounced, don't know why
Message-ID: <1994011023...@panix2.panix.com>
Date: 10 Jan 94 13:37:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2779
rap...@research.canon.oz.au (Andrew Raphael) writes:
R>The "ghost disease", kuru, eliminated religious cannibalism in the
>PNG tribe it affected. Otherwise, they'd still be eating their dead.
>Kuru was the human equivalent of BSE, or mad cow disease. If you want
>to simulate this in Glorantha, use Brain Fever & Shakes.
Actually that's reversed -- the end of cannibalism eliminated kuru.
The New Guineans never knew that cannibalism caused kuru until after
cannibalism had stopped.
wat...@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson) writes:
R>Here's a rules question which occurred to me in a game last night:
>What is the result if the various different types of elementals are
>set against each other in combat?
>Can they affect each other at all, or are they mutually immune?
>Do undines douse salamanders; or do salamanders vapourise undines?
>Can a shade extinguish a salamander?... etc.
>Can salamanders attack each other effectively?
This is a good question. If anyone comes up with a good answer, I'll
try to get it into the new edition. (Yes, I'm too lazy to come up with
my own.)
san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy the Great and Powerful) writes:
R>Look at the progression in the troll breeding rates. What it boils
>down to is that once uzuz vanish from a community, they are gone for
>good. Ditto for uzko. Ultimately, all troll communities will degrade
>into pure enlo societies. This is in the long run, of course, and may
>take much longer than the mere 1000 or so years they've been
>degenerating so far. But certainly the trolls could use a cure for
>Nysalor's curse.
It's worth pointing out that enlo-only communities tend to die out,
because they can't even reliably breed other enlo, and enlo born from
enlo are even more deformed and weak than enlo born to uzko. As far as
I can tell, the only "stable" trollkin communities exist because dark
trolls live nearby and "leak" enlo.
I like your defense of Arkat.
I've come to the conclusion that _King of Sartar_ is largely bogus, or
at least missing lots of info. For one, where's Angrogeus? Where's the
Black Horse Troop? Shouldn't they have critical roles? For another,
there have been *lots* of hints that Arkat will return, but somehow he's
completely missing from the Hero Wars in KOS.
---------------------
From: WAL...@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU (Personal friend of Little Elvis)
Subject: language list
Message-ID: <01H7J20O8...@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU>
Date: 10 Jan 94 14:34:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2780
There seemed to be enough interest to post. Comments at end...
REGION PRIMARY OTHER RELATED LANGUAGES
Aggar Aggar 1/3 P Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Alat Alatan 1/5 Theyalan, 1/5 Boatspeech, 1/5 Seaspeech
Arolanit Seshnegi 1/2 Ralian, 1/3 Brithini, 1/5 Western
Arstola Solanthi 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Ballid tribal 1/3 R Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Bastis Nimistor 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Bilini Bilini 1/3 P Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Bindle Carmanian 1/2 Loskalmi, 1/5 Western
Balazar Balazaring 1/10 Pelorian
Basim Basmoli
Blackhorse Grazelander 1/2 Pentan
Blue Moon Darktongue
Brolia Brolian 1/3 P Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Caladraland Caladrian 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Carmania Carmanian 1/2 Loskalmi, 1/5 Western
Corolaland Darktongue
Dara Happa see Darjin, First Blessed, Karasal, Kostaddi, Silver Shadow
Darjin Darjin 1/3 P Farmer, 1/5 N Pelorian, 1/5 Dara Happan
Delela Delelan 1/3 R Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Ditali Ditali 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Doblian Doblian 1/3 P Farmer, 1/5 N Pelorian, 1/5 Dara Happan
Dona Janubian
Dorastor Dorastor 1/3 P Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Dragori Inkarth Darktongue
East Isles Tanyen 1/5 Imperial, 1/10 Vithelan
East Wilds tribal 1/3 R Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Eol Eolian
Esrolia Esrolian 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
First Blessed First Blessed 1/3 P Farmer, 1/5 N Pelorian/Dara Happan
Garsting Jarstic 1/10 Pelorian
God Forgot Brithini 1/3 Loskalmi, 1/3 Seshnegi, 1/5 Western
Grazelands Grazelander
Guhan Darktongue
Halikiv Darktongue
Heartland Local P Farmer 1/3 P Farmer, 1/5 N Pelorian, 1/5 Dara Happan
Heortland Sartarite 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Hoay Hoay 1/3 P Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Hungry Plateau Praxian
Ignorance Stultan 1/10 Kralori, 1/10 Darktongue
Janube Janubian
Jarst Jarstic 1/10 Pelorian
Jhor Carmanian 1/2 Loskalmi, 1/5 Western
Jonatela Syanoran 1/3 F Theyalan
Junora Junora 1/3 F Theyalan
Karasal Karasal 1/3 P Farmer, 1/5 N Pelorian, 1/5 Dara Happan
Karstall Janubian
Keanos Keanos 1/3 R Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Kethaela M Theyalan 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Kralorela Kralori 1/10 Vithelan
Kostaddi Kostaddi 1/3 P Farmer, 1/5 N Pelorian, 1/5 Dara Happan
Loskalm Loskalmi 1/2 Carmanian, 1/3 Brithini, 1/5 Western
Lunar Empire New Pelorian 1/5 P Farmer, 1/5 Dara Happan
Melib Melibic 1/3 Teshnan, 1/3 Trowjangi
Naskorion Naskorion 1/3 R Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Newcoast Solanthi 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Nimistor Nimistor 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Oranor Oranoran 1/3 F Theyalan
Oraya Oraya 1/3 P Farmer, 1/5 N Pelorian, 1/5 Dara Happan
Orinin Orinin 1/3 P Farmer, 1/5 N Pelorian, 1/5 Dara Happan
Peloria New Pelorian 1/5 P Farmer, 1/5 Dara Happan
Pent Pentan 1/2 Other Pentan
Pralorela Damali
Prax Praxian
Ralios Ralian 1/2 Seshnegi, 1/5 Western
Ramalia Ramalian 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Rathorela Rathori
Rightarm Isles Caladralan 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Safelster Ralian 1/2 Seshnegi, 1/5 Western
Sartar Sartarite 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Saug Saug 1/3 R Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Seshnela Seshnegi 1/2 Ralian, 1/3 Brithini, 1/5 Western
Shadow Plateau Darktongue
Shan Shan Kralori 1/10 Vithelan
Silver Shadow Silver Shadow 1/3 P Farmer, 1/5 N Pelorian, 1/5 Dara Happan
Skanthi Skanthi 1/3 P Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Solanthi Solanthi 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Spol Carmanian 1/2 Loskalmi, 1/5 Western
Sun Dome Sartarite 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Sylila Sylila 1/3 P Farmer, 1/5 N Pelorian, 1/5 Dara Happan
Talastar Talastar 1/3 P Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Tarsh Tarshite 1/3 P Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Tastolar Uncoling
Teshnos Teshnan 1/3 Melibic, 1/3 Trowjangi
Timms Syanoran 1/3 F Theyalan
Trowjang Trowjangi 1/3 Teshnan, 1/3 Melibic
Upriver Rathori
Vadeli Vadeli 1/5 Western
Vanch Balazaring 1/10 Pelorian
Vesmonstran tribal 1/3 R Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Vormain Imperial 1/5 Tanyen, 1/10 Vithelan
War Western F Theyalan
Wenelia Regional 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Wintertop Tarshite 1/3 M Theyalan, 1/10 Theyalan
Winterwood Uncoling
Worian Carmanian 1/2 Loskalmi, 1/5 Western
Ygg's Isles Yggian
ABBREVIATIONS
Theyalan = language in a Theyalan group (Fronelan, Manirian, Pelorian, Ralian)
F Theyalan = FRONELAN THEYALAN LANGUAGES (Junoran, Oranoran, Syanoran)
M Theyalan = MANIRIAN THEYALAN LANGUAGES (Caladrian, Ditali, Esrolian,
Nimistor, Ramalian, Sartarite, Solanthi)
N Pelorian = New Pelorian
Pelorian = PELORIAN LANGUAGES (Balazaring, Dara Happan, Jarstic, New
Pelorian)
P Farmer = PELORIAN FARMER LANGUAGES (Darjin, Doblian, First Blessed,
Karasal, Oraya, Orinin, Kostaddi, Sylila)
P Theyalan = PELORIAN THEYALAN LANGUAGES (Aggar, Bilini, Brolia,
Skanthi, Vanch)
R Theyalan = RALIAN THEYALAN LANGUAGES (Delelan, Keanos, Lankst,
Naskorion, Otkorion, Saug, Surkorion, Telmori)
Vithelan = VITHELAN LANGUAGES (Imperial, Kralori, Stultan, Tanyen)
Western = WESTERN LANGUAGES (Brithini, Carmanian, Loskalmi, Ralian,
Seshnegi, Vadeli)
I made this table a couple years ago, attempting to compile all
official sources that I had, extrapolating where I could, and
fabricating what seemed acceptable. Now, I cannot recall what is
official, extrapolated, or fabricated.
Now, I KNOW some of you will be laughing/fuming at my errors and
omissions in this table. I would appreciated it if you could email
any corrections or additions to me. I will get a corrected and
improved table to interested people later.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: code...@aol.com
Subject: Announcing Codex, a new magazine
Message-ID: <940111003...@aol.com>
Date: 11 Jan 94 05:32:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2781
With great pleasure, I am happy to announce the inception of a new magazine
for Runequest and Glorantha fans.
Codex dedicates its entire contents to discovering the nature and secrets of
Glorantha through scenarios, articles, fiction and essays.
Issue 1 is a Pavis special, with about half of the issue examining facets of
Pavic history, Lunar strategy in the city, details of life and infamous
residents. One of tha articles contains material originally intended for the
upcoming Strangers in Prax release from Avalon Hill but cut due to space
limitations.
Other articles include a two part adventure in Dorastor that doesn't involve
even a tiny bit of chaos, Sandy Petersen & Martin Crim describing the nature
of most of the Praxian Tribes, and beautiful artwork by Laura Morgan, whose
illustrations of Toadface, Bigmouth and Greenpee the broos should be very
useful to anyone who owns River of Cradles. Her art was originally intended
for inclusion in River of Cradles.
And that's not all, but you'll have to get a copy to see what else.
Issue 1 is 32 pages typeset, plus front & back covers inside & out.
Subscription & Submission Information
Codex costs $3.75 US per issue direct from my hand, or $4.50 first class US
Mail. Foreign cust
omers, please write for rates, but it is probably about 50c higher than 1st
class. Sorry, only US funds acceptable. Checks or money orders only, please
for all mail orders. The publication schedule is intended to be quarterly,
but depends in large part on submissions. The next issue is scheduled f
or release April 1, 1994. Make what you like of that date.
Send all paper correspondence to:
M. Dawson/Codex
P.O. Box 9286-0286
Richmond, VA 23227 USA
Send E-mail correspondence to
code...@aol.com
I solicit your submissions of Gloranthan material for publication in Codex.
Due to production limitations, I only accept articles submitted over e-mail
or by disk. (Time does not allow retyping from paper.) Disk is preferred to
e-mail, though file transfer via AOL is fine. Artwork is accepted in hard
copy, but since I must scan everything in, it should be rendered in a format
suitable for scanning. (That means black & white ink drawings without large
solid black areas. The halftone pencils used in this issue are very
expensive.) All rights revert to creators after publication, and creators
receive a free copy of the issue of Codex their material appears in. Further,
artists who send their work in a usable computer format (Photoshop, TIFF,
PICT, EPS, Freehand 3.0) receive their choice of two copies of the issue
their work appeared in, or one copy of two issues. The preferred format is
Macintosh Word 5.0, but I can read DOS disks and most word processor formats.
I also follow most of the submission guidelines for RQ as published by Avalon
Hill. ( I helped write them, after all.)
Codex debuts at RQ Con. Seek out Mike Dawson on Friday or Sunday, and Harvar
Ironfist on Saturday during Home of the Bold.
Thanks for reading to the end!
Mike
M >|<
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: JAR...@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Calendar
Message-ID: <940111142...@Sun.COM>
Date: 11 Jan 94 13:22:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2782
Ref: Enquiries about the Gloranthan Calendar.
A while ago I made up a gloranthan calendar like the old RQ2 one.
I encluded ALL the Holy and High Holy Days(& Nights) that I could find.
Unfortunately, for most of you I created it for LaTeX and so as it is
basically just a huge table it will be pretty useless for those without LaTeX,
even so it used a non-standard style file (to fit on the page) and also
accessed a Rune Font definition file. However, if people clamour loudly
I might post it to the daily.
-----
Lewis
-----
PS. On an unrelated topic; they are called Sun Wheel Dancers.
---------------------
From: ro...@soda.berkeley.edu (Eric Rowe)
Subject: Master Map Index
Message-ID: <1994011120...@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: 11 Jan 94 04:03:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2783
Thanks to malcolm109@aol for the map index of Sartar. It prompted
Stephan Martin to recall he has a master map index of ALL gloranthan
maps. I convinced him to let me post them so he'll be dropping disks
by in a day or two. However, the amount of material may be too long
for even several digests. Once I format it all I'll check with Henk
and then probably just make it available on the soda ftp site and
e-mail it to those who request it.
Hopefully Stephen should be on the daily in a few more months and we'll
see some marvelous debate between him and some of our other experts.
eric
---------------------
From: 10027...@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Gold Wheel Dancers
Message-ID: <940111203525_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 11 Jan 94 20:35:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2784
______________
Laajamki Jorma asked:
> What's the story about Gold Wheel Dancers? I'd like to know more.
> I know they all should be dead, but nobody ever knows...
(Hope I got the name right!)
From memory and theory (so I may get some bits wrong):
The Gold Wheel Dancers were one of the six races represented on the World
Council of Friends (aka "First Council") at the Dawning. That puts them on
a par with elves, dwarfs, dragonewts, trolls, and humans (in those bygone
days). Incidentally, Aram-Ya-Udram (aka "Tusker John", long-lost Emperor of
Dragon Pass) was the human member of the council, which makes you wonder.
Anyway, the Golden Wheel Dancers probably looked like one of three things:
(1) Golden discs or rings that rolled around on their own. (This is
how Pinchining is described).
(2) Tripods (or more) of golden legs, like the Isle of Man's
heraldic
triskele (and a load of Greek mythological symbols), possibly with
a circular body in the middle. (Like nice tripedal Krarshtkids??).
This fits in with their identity as "Dancers", and makes sense.
(3) Mr.Happy (by Roger Hargreaves), a traditional image for
benevolent
solar entities, and one popular among barbarian peoples (as witness
his recent use by Glasgow City Council). He fits in well with the
mythical sophistication of the World Council of Friends.
Perhaps these were separate racial types, or stages in their development.
Perhaps (2) and (3), which are "all my own work", are a pack of lies. Who
knows (or cares)?
They died out. We don't know why, but can tentatively assume it had
something to do with the rebirth of intolerance that struck, worldwide,
around the end of the first century ST. Golden coins are commonly named
Wheels in memory of them -- a particularly sick theory would have it that
the original coins were dead GWDs, and that later people started minting
their own. One would assume they were allies of the Lokarnos solar trader
cult, but they could just as easily have been rivals or deadly enemies.
So, yes, they died out. But that doesn't mean you can't find them again.
Pinchining (from the Cradle scenario in RQ2's Pavis pack) is a Gold Wheel
Dancer, who was reanimated by a timely critical roll on a prayer to his
hoard of Wheels performed on the Hero Plane by Urrrrrrggggggh the Ugly
(further details in "Alebard's Quest", TotRM 5). Funny how again there's a
connection between half-trolls and the GWDs...
Pinchining was a hoop or disc of gold that hummed and whirred as it spun
along, which was responsible for the magical defences (and possibly other
things) of the Giants' Cradle. Killed by Lunar magic, it was brought back
by Garrath Sharpsword and a bunch of Orlanthi HeroQuesters.
So you can meet them. When you do, remember: "Money Talks".
_________
Carl Fink wrote:
> There have been *lots* of hints that Arkat will return, but somehow
> he's completely missing from the Hero Wars in KOS.
There is a prominent guy there named AR*AT*: Argrath. But I don't know how
the Gloranthan equivalent of Grimm's Law works, and would hate to theorise
about reincarnations of heroquesting saviours as heroquesting saviours...
Besides, KoS is clearly not the whole story. Whoever said it was? There is
no an obvious reason for a revived Arkat to invade Peloria via Dragon Pass
en route for Dorastor -- especially as so much else has changed since his
time. The "Arkat Returns!" drama could be played out entirely within
Ralios, with major repercussions for the rest of the world that manifest
themselves as "generic" symptoms of the end of the Third Age.
I agree: I'd have liked to see Ethilrist et al. in KoS. But how big would
the book have grown (and how far away would "Next Year" have gone) if Greg
hadn't deliberately limited his scope?
_________
Tim Leask on Horses and Fire:
Gloranthan Horses are creatures of the Fire/Sky rune (at least, in
Peloria). Presumably their reaction is one of awe and religious dread,
rather than bestial fear. This makes your entertaining suggestion for a
Yara Aranis anti-horse spell as unlikely as the weather-modifying
anti-archery spells. It'd be like going into battle against the Maccabees
shouting "Jehovah!", in the hope of upsetting them... a pleasant but
implausible image.
_____
Sandy on stereotyping:
> The player said that HER dwarf was tall and willowy. I was amazed, and
> said, "What an unusual dwarf you have. I'm very impressed." Then the
> player lectured me about racial prejudice and stereotyping.
Stuff'em if they can't take a joke. For me, the opportunity to express my
ignorant prejudices is one of the joys of gaming. I am not a great author,
an actor or a dramatist. My characters and NPCs are caricatures. Naturally
they tend to extremes. In world-building, I go by what real people have
thought (this puts me at odds with the "Glorantha is wholly magical, and
thus unlike Earth" school: I think Earth is magical too, and can produce
any number of well-documented proofs). And real people are ignorant and
stupid and prejudiced. Especially when talking about religions or cultures
to which they do not subscribe.
What is the point of having cultures, Elder Races, cults, etc. if we can't
use them as handy stereotypes for our gaming?
Rant, fume, blether...
____________
Colin Watson wrote:
> I thought the Lunar anti-storm stance was the result of circumstance
> (ie. the Orlanthi cause trouble for the Empire so the Lunars don't like
> Orlanth) rather than general inclination. Wouldn't Lunars exploit storm
> magic like any other type of magic if they got the chance?
For arcane and philosophical reasons, they can't. There are only four Young
Elementals, not five -- Air was not reborn within the second Void. So the
Lunars have no "Air Elementals" of their own. The Red Goddess seeks to
usurp the Middle Air, and thus there are few strong winds within the
Pelorian Bowl. The Lunars think that the only good air is dead air -- and
you can take that as literally as you like.
It may be that in their attempted recreation of the Golden Age within the
Lunar Empire, they have found it necessary to regress before the coming of
disruptive Storm. This would fit with Dara Happan philosophy, which the
Lunars have of course inherited.
The Empire's practical anti-storm stance is thus necessitated and indeed
created by the magical-philosophical standpoint of the Lunar Way. By their
very nature, they oppose and rival the powers of Storm. They can't use
them, and they can't make friends with them. Tough all round, but that's
religion and cosmic rivalry for you...
Note that the Lunars have well-known connections with the elemental powers
of Darkness, Water, Earth and Fire (cf. Cult of Annilla x2, Carving of
Tarsh, Four Arrows of Light). There is no comparable Storm connection
(Molanni? Ha!), and IMHO there should never be.
Argrath's Temple of the Reaching Storm remains an uncorroborated rumour.
______________
A General Note
I *like* the various indices to maps, languages, etc. that enterprising
souls on the Daily have produced recently, and think this is the right way
to go as far as any "Gloranthan Encyclopaedia" project is concerned. We
could comprehensively index recent individual products first, then pool our
efforts (somehow) and go for a complete index to published works.
The thought of distilling *all* knowledge on a subject down to One True
Version and posting this to an Encyclopaedia makes me nervous. It is an
implausibly large task, and probably not a very healthy or creative one.
IMHO, of course.
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 11 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940111212...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 11 Jan 94 21:20:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2785
David Dunham asks:
>Are real world arrows less effective than they are in the game? Are shields
>or armor more effective against arows?
Yes and yes. Especially in ancient warfare. The tetsudo formation was
pretty well proof against period arrows, for example. And the Anabasis would
have been a much shorter work if arrows had been very effective against
armored hoplites...
People nowadays tend to look at Agincort and (insert Polish-Mongol battle
in 1241 name...) and project the results back into ancient times. I think both
the Welsh longbow and the steppes composite bow (a very complex piece of
materials technology) were developed quite late (12th and 4th centuries
CE, respectively, I think.) Would anyone like this looked up?
Arrows are effective in warfare but the casualty rate for arrows in RQ is
WAY high. Consider the number of arrows fired vs. kills scored in any
major battle. Will look up some numbers if anyone wants, but I'd be surprised
if the kills/arrows fired ratio was more than 1/20. Except maybe in some Mongol
encirclement battles.
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: YA Frighten Horse
Message-ID: <1994011121...@radiomail.net>
Date: 11 Jan 94 21:28:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2786
>From: t...@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Tim Leask)
>Having just recently seen on the news the effect fire has on horses
>I thought maybe the frighten horse spell is actually a special form of
>illusory fire that does no physical damage but is real in all other ways.
>The spell would both obscure vision and panic horses. The spell should
>be able to be combined from multiple casters to create huge illusions.
Given that the Scythian's horses were reputedly spooked by the sound of
donkeys, and the Mongol horses had to be tied to trees during a fight
against elephants (presumably scared by the noise?), I'd assumed Frighten
Horse was primarily sound-based. That would make it more effective as an
area spell.
---------------------
From: LO...@marketing.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller)
Subject: Lord Raglan's list of 22 heroic characteristics
Message-ID: <50F38...@marketing.wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: 11 Jan 94 20:31:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2787
This is a message that someone posted on alt.mythology. I thought it would
be of interest to all those RQ fans who want to see how heroes have been
defined through western history. If you want to write about a RQ hero you
could do worse than to use this as a checklist or menu.
-- Loren
--- Forwarded message follows ---
From: eric...@potsdam.edu (Norm )
Subject: Lord Raglan 22 characteristics
Date: 11 Jan 1994 20:21:34 GMT
To save on typing I have numbered the characteristics and then given each
hero the number that he/she displays. This will take some time, I hope you
readers of myth appreciate it, here we go!!
1) The hero's mother is a royal virgin
2) His father is a king, and
3) Often a near relative of his mother, but
4) The circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
5) He is also reputed to be the son of a god.
6) He is spirited away, and
8) Reared by foster-parents in a far country.
9) We are told nothing of his childood, but
10) On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
11) After a victory over the king and /or a giant, dragon, or wild beast,
12) He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor, and
13) Becomes king.
14) For a time he reigns uneventfully, and
15) Prescribes laws, but
16) Later he loses favour with the gods and /or his subjects, and
17) Is driven from the throne and city, after which
18) He meets with a mysterious death,
19) Often at the top of a hill.
20) His children, if any, do not succeed him.
21) His body is not buried, but nvertheless
22) He has one or more holy sepulchres.
Let us now apply this pattern to our heroes, and we will start with:
OEDIPUS: He has all of the characteristics listed above.
THESEUS: 1,2,4,5,6,8,9,10,11,12,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22.
ROMULUS: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8.10.11.12.15.16.17.18.20.21,22,
HERACLES: 1,2,3,4,5,6,11,10,12,13,14,17,18,19,20,21,22,
PERSEUS: 1,2,3,5,4,6,7,8,9,11,12,10,13,14,18,20,21,22,
JASON: 1,2,6,7,8,9,12,10,11,13,17,18,20,21,22,
BELLEROPHON: 1,2,5,9,11,12,13,14,16,17,18,19,20,21,22
PELOPS: 1,2,5,6,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,20,22,
ASCLEPIOS: 1,5,,6,7,8,11,13,17,16,18,21,22
APOLLO: 1,5,3,6,7,8,9,10,11,13,15,
DIONYSOS: 1,5,3,4,6,7,8,9,10,11,13,15,17,20,22,19,21
MOSES: 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,15,16,17,19,20,21,22,
JOSEPH: 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,11,13,12,15,14,
ROBIN HOOD: 5,9,11,10,12,13,15,17,19,20,22,21,18,
KING ARTHUR: 1,2,5,4,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,20,21,22,
NYIKANG (CULT HERO OF THE SHILUK TRIBE)
1,2,9,6,10,11,13,15,16,14,18,21,22,
Lord Raglan, The Hero, 1949
[You may notice unspoken characteristic 0: The hero is male. --LJM]
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller LO...@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu
Into the flood again, same old trip it was back when
---------------------
From: bsr...@ccs.neu.edu (Brian Sroka)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 11 Jan 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <1994011121...@denali.ccs.neu.edu>
Date: 11 Jan 94 11:48:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2788
unsubscribe bsr...@ccs.neu.edu
---------------------
From: drc...@sales.stern.nyu.edu (David Cheng)
Subject: Final RuneQuest-Con Bulletin
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.2.758...@sales.stern.nyu.edu>
Date: 12 Jan 94 07:45:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2789
RuneQuest-Con Bulletin #6
=========================
(Wednesday, Jan 12, 1994)
Well, it's two days before the show, so this ought to be the last you'll
be hearing from me till it's all over.
MEMBERSHIP
I've received registrations from the following 155 folks, as of today:
Janet Anderson, Paul Anderson, Shannon Appel, Glen Bailey, Steve
Baker, Andy Ballantine, Eric Bauge, Chris Becker, Tom Beeson, Jason
Bennett, Maurice Beyke, David S. Bieksza, Rebecca Bisbee, Robert
Bisbee, David Blizzard, David Boatright, Ron Boerger, Hal Bowman,
John E. Boyle, Bill Bridges, Alice Briggs, Nick Brooke, John Brown,
Dave Camoirano, Barry A. Chambers Jr., James B Chapin, James D Chapin,
David Chapin, Diana Chapin, Donald R. Clarke, Scott A. Cowell, Paula
Crock, Bill Cumberland, Brian Cummings, Bryan Davis, Fred Davis, Mike
Dawson, Robert B. Detter, Andrew Diamaduros, Kristi DiClemente, Jason
DiClemente, David Dunham, Robert Dushay, Tom Etherington, Bill
Etherington, Jon Evans, Marc Eyrand, Robert Fanelli, William
Faulkner, Scott G. Ferrier, Gregory C. Fetzer, John Flavin, Brian
Forester, Mark Foster, Gregory Fried, Brad Furst, Paul Gilles, Mark
Gilles, Ian Gorlick, Andrew Greenberg, Kay Grimnes, Steve Haak, Nils
K. Hammer, Paul Harmaty, Paul H. Heinz, Rhys Hess, David Hixon, James
Ho, Mike Honekamp, Dennis Hoover, Eric Jablow, Barbara Jackson, Andrew
Joelson, Oliver Jovanovic, Andy Joy, Yvonne Kaplan, Charles
Keith-Stanley, Fred P. Kiesche III, John A. King, Barbara Kolln, Karen
Kolzow, Herman Liebson, Cary D. Long, Curtis Lyons, Peter Maranci,
Finula McCaul, John Medway, David E. Meneghin, Peter Michaels, Loren
Miller, David Millians, Mark Minster, Mark Mohrfield, Bob Monaghan,
Noel Montealegre, Charles Morehouse, Stephen Mumford, Glenn Newman,
Dang Q. Nguyen, Phil OUConnor, Jeff Okamoto, Ken Olson, Alison Place,
James Polk, Gerald R. Potts, David J. Radzik, Ed Reich, Paul Reilly,
Eugene Reynolds, Philip H. Rhinelander, Ken Richardson, Roderick
Robertson, Neil Robinson, Jim Rogers, William V. Rossi, Jr., Eric
Rowe, Mark Sabalauskas, John T. Sapienza, Jr., Nick Scaramuzzo,
Lawrence Schick, John Schmidt, Scott Schneider, David Schubert,
Michael Schwartz, Stephen T. Semienick, Santo Sengupta, Malcolm
Serabian, Chris Shedlick, Harald C. Smith, John Snyder, Rich Staats,
Chris Stafford, Ross Starkey, Robert Stoll, Michael Strathearn,
Steven Strawbridge, Tom Sullivan, Mark Sullivan, Curtis Taylor, Kendra
Tornheim, T. Michal Trout, Hans van Halteren, John Walker, Kurt
Wasserman, Scott Watson, Andy Weill, Thearin Wendel, Jeannie Whited,
David G. Wible, Marcia Witt, Robert Wolfe, Paul Woodmansee, Mike
Young, Jim Zanoni, Barbara Zoellner
If you've sent me a registration, and don't see your name here, please
contact me ASAP (212) 472-7752.
HOME OF THE BOLD
These are the folks lucky enough to get a spot in Home of the Bold:
Janet Anderson, Paul Anderson, Shannon Appel, Glen Bailey, Andy
Ballantine, Chris Becker, Tom Beeson, Maurice Beyke, Rebecca Bisbee,
Robert Bisbee, David Blizzard, Ron Boerger, Bill Bridges, Nick
Brooke, John Brown, James B Chapin, James D Chapin, David Chapin,
Diana Chapin, Paula Crock, Bryan Davis, Fred Davis, Mike Dawson,
Robert B. Detter, David Dunham, Jon Evans, Marc Eyrand, Scott G.
Ferrier, John Flavin, Brian Forester, Mark Foster, Paul Gilles, Mark
Gilles, Ian Gorlick, Andrew Greenberg, Paul Harmaty, Paul H. Heinz,
Rhys Hess, James Ho, Eric Jablow, Barbara Jackson, Oliver
Jovanovic, Yvonne Kaplan, John A. King, Curtis Lyons, Peter Maranci,
Finula McCaul, John Medway, David Millians, Mark Minster, Mark
Mohrfield, Noel Montealegre, Jeff Okamoto, Alison Place, Paul Reilly,
Roderick Robertson, Neil Robinson, Jim Rogers, Eric Rowe, Lawrence
Schick, John Schmidt, Scott Schneider, Michael Schwartz, Malcolm
Serabian, Rich Staats, Chris Stafford, Michael Strathearn, Curtis
Taylor, Kendra Tornheim, Hans van Halteren, John Walker, Scott
Watson, Andy Weill, Jeannie Whited, Robert Wolfe, Paul Woodmansee,
Mike Young
If you see your name here, but didn't receive your character in the
mail, please contact me ASAP (212) 472-7752.
RIDE NEEDED
Paul and Janet Andersen are looking for a ride to the con. They live
in the Princeton, NJ area. If you're looking for some folks to
share costs, please contact Janet at ande...@howdy.princeton.edu ,
or call either of them at (609) 497-0414.
DC OUT OF TOUCH
I'll be leaving for the con on Thursday morning, so if you've got
any business to discuss with me, please contact me by Wednesday
night. Again, I'm at (212) 472-7752.
AUCTION GOODIES
There have been some requests for what good stuff will be auctioned.
Sorry to take so long to compile the list. This is only the stuff I
know about - I do know that others will be bringing stuff of their
own.
Unique (i.e. High-ticket items)
-------------------------------
FELIZ NAVIDEAD - an artistic creation of Greg Stafford. From the
rough description he's given me, it sounds like a take on the
classic Nativity scene of Jesus in the manger.
A detailed map of the Colymar lands in Sartar. Drawn by Stafford's
own hand. Lots of landmarks shown. Bundled with some rediscovered
God Learner maps.
The log of Sandy Petersen's world-spanning Pamaltela+ campaign, as
compiled (and donated) by Jeff Okamoto. At Convulsion in July 92,
I think this went for about $500 US.
A draft copy of _King of Sartar_. Editing notes and everything.
There might even be sections in there that didn't make the final
cut, but I haven't checked.
Rare (i.e. pricey items)
-----------------------
A few copies of original Chaosium's _White Bear and Red Moon_.
Stafford is donating a mint condition, unpunched copy from the
first printing. So is Sandy Petersen.
A copy of _Nomad Gods_. This will sell for a lot, as it seems
even more rare than WB&RM.
An original _First_ edition _RuneQuest_.
At least one copy of each of _Wyrms Footnotes_ 5-14. All are in
very good condition, at least.
At least one _Griffin Mountain_, unused and in excellent condition.
Chaosium's original _Elric_ (the board game), _Lords of the Middle
Sea_ (another board game, by Lynn Willis), and _Perilous Encounters_
(minis rules). All long out of print.
Other Good Stuff
----------------
Different Worlds 1-25, 27 & 28.
Dragon Pass
Stormbringer
Thieves' World
Original Snakepipe Hollow, Apple Lane & Ballastors Barracks
GW Hardcover Call of Cthulhu
2nd ed RuneQuest rulesbooks
Militia & Mercenaries, Creatures of Chaos
Gateway Bestiary
Plunder
... and more.
OTHER STUFF FOR SALE
--------------------
_The Rough Guide to Boldhome_ will be available to those not in HotB.
I suspect it will sell out on site, however. We cannot reprint it.
The Convention Program book will also be available for sale after the
con. It has essays on the changing world view of Glorantha by Stafford,
Stephen Martin, and David Hall. It also has essays from Sandy Petersen,
Professor M.A.R. Barker, and me, David Cheng. It has a directory of
131 dedicated RQers. It has lots of Dan Barker artwork. I currently
have about 200 to spare, and might reprint if demand is really high.
I predict a price of about $7 (but don't quote me on this), plus postage.
There are plans to record and transcribe the seminars, and the legends
from the Orlanthi Storytelling Contest. If this really happens, this
booklet too will be on sale.
IT'S NOT TOO LATE
-----------------
There are new tournaments not seen in either the pre-reg booklet or the
Crimson Bat Bulletin, including an adventure from Mike Dawson. As late
as last week the hotel was still offering the discounted con rate.
On site registration is the same as pre-reg ($30, only one event has a
fee). There are plenty of open games.
I look forward to meeting many of you in person.
* David Cheng
(212) 472-7752
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: al...@tcrystal.gla.ac.uk (Allan Henderson)
Subject: morokanth don't eat people
Message-ID: <25708.94...@sushi.tcrystal.glasgow.ac.uk>
Date: 12 Jan 94 12:22:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2790
Hi all,
I am afraid that I must disagree with Mr Peterson on the issue of
morokanth eating people, he says
> it's not "cannibalism" to eat a
> human if you're a morokanth -- a social faux pas at worst.
I believe that the Waha covenant will apply more stronly than breaking
it to be considered only a faux pas. In Borderlands there is a
description that morokanth put a herdman than may be a person out to
live on grass for a week if they thrive then they eat them, if they
don't then presumably they convert then to herd men and then eat them.
The important point is that they change them to herd men first.
The borderland write up of morocanth is very good.
The praxian nomads know about herd men, but although they know the
difference between herd men and humans it is still a good excuse to
raid another tribe. I doubt if any initiate or above in Waha would even
consider a herd man to be human, certainly no closer to human than an
ogre is.
Ogres, herd men, humans they all look the same but they come in three
distinct flavours (so to speak), only one of which is edible :
ogres being vile chaos creatures are not fit to eat
humans are forbidden to eat
herd men, god actively encourages the eating of these stupid creatures
> I find highly colorful nonhumans far more interesting than the
> usual D&Dish "humans in a furry suit".
I agree, but breaking the convenant of Waha, and eating people turns
morocanth into "monsters, but without the thumbs". Having them as an
alien tribe with morals and strict social structures allow them to be
feared through ignorance yet respected for their independant culture
by the PCs.
I can now agree with Sandy about you evil revisionist scum implying
that Arkat was a psycopathic killer. How dare you, he stood for
everything that seperates good, god fearing folk from the evil of chaos.
A man/troll with a big axe and murder on his mind is what makes
Glorantha safe for decent people. Kill all chaos worshipers, and people
who might be chaos worshipers, and people who live within 15Km of chaos
worshipers. rant rave rant rave etc.
The above message was brought to you by the Strom Bull for a Bright New
Tomorrow campaign.
---------------------
From: eo...@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
Subject: Cannabalism
Message-ID: <940112191...@raesp-farn.mod.uk>
Date: 12 Jan 94 19:14:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2791
Geoff here after a long period of hibernation...
Doesn't the taboo against cannabalism stem from the ability to emote with what
you're eating ? With humans there's also the problems of disease transmission,
but between species this shouldn't be a problem.
SO the question boils down to: Does species 'A' have the cultural makeup to
empathise, and feel uncomfortable, about eating 'B' ?
Thus - Trolls will eat everything.
Dwarves eat ritual enemies 'Elves - not life as we know it'
Morocanth - I can see them in private eating other races, but as they
make a bigger effort to fit in than Trolls, public acts
of sentinent consumption are probably rare. But really they
don't give a damn. Just keeping up with the Jones's.
Yawn ... Back to sleep, I think. Wake me after the recession ...
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Real world arrows, anti archery tactics and spirits in walls (again)
Message-ID: <H.ea.FhD...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 12 Jan 94 19:27:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2792
Colin Watson in X-RQ-ID: 2774
>Subject: spirits bound into areas
>Robert McArthur wrote:
>>The GM said that when the stockade was created, spirits were bound
>>inside the walls to protect the place, check people going through the
>>gates, as well as those attempting to climb the walls stealthly at night
>>et al. Now, it seems to me that, if you have such spirits, you hardly need
>>many troops walking around protecting the place...
This seems extremely unlikely to me for a town the Lunars don't seem to
use in any way (I'd imagine Barbarian town to be a worse place to be
commisioned for a Lunar regular than Corflu or Refuge). Look at the Sun
County temple defenses for a great temple, and think how easy these
would be to overcome. Now imagine barbarian town: an earthen rampart,
probably with a hedge on top instead of a palisade, considering how
scarce wood is east of the Storm Mountains, and erected by Pol Joni
dimly remembering settled life. Way too much, really.
[regularly bound spirits ignored]
The alarm function is more easily obtained by a permanent market spell.
>>Can they engage in spirit combat with a spirit coming through the
wall?
>IMO a spirit bound to a mundane object/area no longer has
>perception in the spirit plane unless it can cast Second Sight or similar
>(but this view was debated a while ago...) so someone could discorporate
>and sneak past; however it's also debatable how much of the mundane plane
>is perceived by a discorporate shaman - to be useful you'd have to cast
>visibility in order to interact with the mundane world otherwise
>you'd have great difficulty telling where you were in relation to it.
That's right for regularly bound ghosts or magic spirits (the types I'd
use). There are, however, the wyters or community spirits which happen
to form around any group of people, e.g. Ginna Jar for the
Lightbringers. These may be a concoction of ancestors and other
friendly local spirits, plus the founding spirit as dirigent. KoS
describes how e.g. Jon Hauberk became guardian spirit of Jonstown, and
I'd bet that somewhere around Clearwine old chief Colymar would rush to
protect his offspring. For Runegate the (pointless) struggle of the
city's spirits against the Bat is recorded in KoS.
>Even if the bound spirit had some means of detecting a discorporate shaman
>(eg. it happened to have cast Second Sight within the last five mins) it
>couldn't engage in spirit combat unless it was released from its binding.
>(This could be a triggered condition of the binding I suppose).
Remember my suggestion for the Building Wall? A spirit voluntarily
interred into such a structure would do just this, e.g. a Humakti
volunteer for a Bind Ghost. The Sense Assassin skill would work against
really ill-wishing intruders.
>>Are spirits normally bound like this?
>A Warding spell would be a more "normal" way to protect a building; but
>there's nothing to stop them Lunars binding spirits if they like.
Except that there is a limit to the total mana available to them...
>>Can they detect enemies (and of whom)?
>The Detect Enemies spell clearly only senses enemies of the caster (who is the
>bound spirit in this case).
Which, if it is to protect the walls, makes any intruder an enemy.
David Dunham in X-RQ-ID: 2777
>Are real world arrows less effective than they are in the game? Are shields
>or armor more effective against arows?
[Also replying to Paul Reilly]
I have yet to find the roleplaying game that does not underrate missile
fire for sake of game balance or player heroism. Of course I tend to
think of the historical incidents where archery really made the
difference, such as the much cited battle of Agincourt or the Mongol
victory at Liegnitz, but from my real life experience with archery
(about as good as a scholar type staying mainly in town is likely to
become) archery accuracy and effectivity are much higher than the
percentages allow for.
We all know the cuirasses with the musket bullet dent to prove its
reliability. Now, while a musket bullet may have the higher velocity
when hitting the target compared to an arrow (I'm not too sure about
that), the armour piercing-tipped arrow has two advantages: a smaller
area of effect (the point only), and the greater mass. Excuse my basic
mechanics, but the missile's energy is W=1/2 m v^2, and its penetration
depends on the pressure this energy exerts on the material. A
cloth-yard arrow (37'' long, weighing easily more than 50 gramms) will
be more likely to penetrate a steel plate than a lead bullet of maybe
20g.
If we take Gloranthan metallurgy into account (bronze being the
standard metal), the best anti-archery armour I can think of would be
dinosaur- or rhino-hide.
I know that n the antique missiles usually were less effective in
battle. That had mainly tw reasons: neither the commanders' strategy
nor the archers technique were developed enough to make use the bows'
killing potential. The usual antique battle began with a hail of arrows
at maximum distance, then an advance line towards line. So much to
strategy in a set battle between mainly infantry. Sensible maneuvres
like Hannibal'y encrcling the Romans at Cannae were cunted as genius.
So was the ancient battle leader who provided far more than the usual
amount of ammunition for his archers and simply outshot his opponents
(if I remember correctly, this was one of the many Asia Minor Greeks
vs. Persians battles).
And yes, a row of hoplites hiding behind their shields were better
armoured against a hail of arrows than the French knights at Agincourt.
A shied held a foot off your body, and some sort of cuirass behind,
provided two separate layers of armour which the arrow had to pierce.
As long as the missiles came from the front. Where they didn't (such as
the Pictish raids against Roman legions), the hoplites were at the
missiles' mercy like anyone else.
The mounted archers of the Parthian knighthood were outfitted as well
as the Mongols WRT bows, if I've done my archery homework correctly.
All you doubters, check the alt.archery FAQs, or ask there.
For the european longbow I have solid archaeological evidence for the
yew longbow from as early as the fifth century AD, found in a danish
bog alongside with high quality damascened blades, and exhibited in the
Haithabu Vikings museum. Eristi-worshiping trolls are invited to ask in
sci.archaology to check...
I think the main reason that bows were not used as massed tools of
annihilation was (culturally caused) missing training. Most barbarian
nations counted personal combat as a virtue above missile combat, so
they just rushed into the enemy. The Romans used the pilum as
pre-charge missile to lower the enemies' shields. The Byzantines had
religious reasons to develop archery as main technique, but failed to
train their archers to precision shooting.
On the other hand, distinguished archers were well known as long as
battles were fought - Apollo's precision shot at Troy, Achilles'
recurved bow that no one could sppan by simply pressing the top end to
the ground, and his shot through twelve axe-handle holes, Wayland's
brother shot a triangle of eggs with one arrow, Einar Tambarskelve's
performance at the sea battle of Oeresund all predate a certain man in
tights and hs switzerland colleague. And in 1066, two competitors to
the English crown were killed by arrows.
Even if Paul's estimate is correct, that only 5% of all shots actually
hit their target, this proves the wrong tactics and training rather
than the overrating of bows in combat.
Lewis came up with the Moon Web as anti-missile magic. I liked it, but
I think the effect is not as great as preventing the opponent from
shooting would be. Especially if this is just a wall - archery is more
ballistic than most game designers seem to think. A four metre high
wall would offer little resistance to a 60 metre shot.
Another angle of view: The arrow is a weapon of Light. To counter it,
darkness would be the appropriate force, wouldn't it? The Moonglow is
quite appropriate, though, only the Redlands don't (to my knowledge)
have a temple of the Reaching Moon to ensure constant full moon to draw
upon. A spell distorting the vision enough to let the archer
miscalculate the distance would do a great job. (I wonder how much a
Farsee would reduce the archer's chance to hit?)
And since Nick pointed out that water was well in the Lunar domain of
elemental magic, *some* kinds of weather effects are possible against
Solar Pent nomads. Storm worshiping Pentians, however...
P.S.: I expect detailed reports from RQ Con, folks, pity I can't come.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: flet...@u.washington.edu (Brent Krupp)
Subject: Waaaahhhh!!! I can't go to RuneQuestCon...
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9401122...@hardy.u.washington.edu>
Date: 12 Jan 94 13:21:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2793
For poor pathetic students like myself who cannot possibly spare the time
or money to go to RQCon (I live in Seattle) (and also non-students whose
work or whatever intrudes) could some person or persons who do go to the
Con be sure to post some kind of update/summary/debriefing so we can find
out what we all missed.
It would be much appreciated.
P.S. I'd love it if any other Washingtonian (except Mr. Dunham with
whom I've chatted) reading this would email me...
Brent Krupp (flet...@u.washington.edu)
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: pears...@bt-web.bt.co.uk (pearse_w_r)
Subject: RQ/Tekumel
Message-ID: <940113095...@Sun.COM>
Date: 13 Jan 94 09:49:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2794
Allow me to join the throng of EPT'ers and thank Sandy Peterson very
much for posting the RQ/Tekumel stuff. I've never bought the RQ III
rules, but I'm going to do just that, in order to play RQ/Tekumel.
I saw that the spells for Belkhanu were missing. Any kind soul with a
copy of Swords & Glory II like to complete this section? The priests
of the Lord of the Isles of the Excellent Dead sound like they should
spend a fair bit of time in the Underworlds, and might be fun to play.
I know there are others using RQ for Tekumel. What scenarios do
people use?
Roger Pearse
---------------------
From: jcla...@mathlab.mtu.edu (Joe Lannom)
Subject: re: Protection forts/stockades give? (maybe Sun County Spoilers, I dunno)
Message-ID: <940113140...@mathlab.mtu.edu>
Date: 13 Jan 94 14:09:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2795
Robert McArthur wrote:
|> Comments from anyone? Are spirits normally bound like this? How many of
|> them? Size of them? Can they detect enemies (and of whom)? Can they engage
|> in spirit combat with a spirit coming through the wall? Over the wall? Under
|> the walls?
|>
Since the Lunars are so tight with the Sun worshippers in the east, near the
river of cradles, I don't see why they wouldn't have tried to adopt some of
their practices.
I don't know how common the knowledge of the different aspects of the Dome's
protections are, but since Um, whats his name, the Lunar tax guy that visited
there that was really into architecture, especially Religious architecture...
Fred, that must be it. (its a joke, but I need a name to use <g>) So Fred is
wandering around looking at the dome and the guards kindly/coldy (You know, its
funny how cold worshippers of a Sun god can be... but then, they could be
Yelmalians and not need warm personalities...) ahem, the guards warn him not to
step there, or over there, don't touch that.... etc. Eventually Fred is going
to get curious and ask a couple questions. Maybe he'd get some answers and pass
them on to the Irripi Ontor temple...
On the same subject, Joerg Baumgartner writes:
|> >A Warding spell would be a more "normal" way to protect a building; but
|> >there's nothing to stop them Lunars binding spirits if they like.
|>
|> Except that there is a limit to the total mana available to them...
|>
Well, if Lunar settlers are going to live near there (within 5KM), any large
contingent with a priest/RL in the party could be required to bind a spirit to
the walls as a pledge to the empire and show support for the "troops" out in the
backwaters of the Empire. We pioneers have to stick together. Besides if I add
to your defenses, thats a couple more members of your garrison that you can send
out to protect us from the evil Barbarians who don't like our horses.
If it was greater than a 5KM distance, it doesn't matter as the spirits would
become free when the binder moved further away than that. (Unless its changed
in RQ3, or ever was in RQ2... I'm still trying to sort out some of the rules 8-/
)
Unless there are attendant priests to reaffirm the bindings, or the wall/town
doesn't get attacked very often, the number of bound spirits would be a
constantly diminishing thing. During a battle or a raid, you'd think that at
least ONE of the spirits would get a power gain roll, make it in the week after
the battle when nothing is happening and resultantly be freed from their
bindings... Some of the R/L are going to WANT to wander away, adventure calls ya
know. Others will die since its such a hard life. Any of those factors (plus
more!) would release a bound spirit.
Hmm.... Since the youths of some of the native american tribes used to steal
horses to prove their manhood or just to raise some hell, it might not be too
far fetched for a shaman to send their young aprentice to try and steal a spirit
from the invaders wall...
joe
---------------------
From: apb...@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 13 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940113130...@aol.com>
Date: 13 Jan 94 18:09:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2796
Hello!
Could you please re-transmit part two of January 13th? Thanks! I am
enjoying the digest!
Michael (aka APBA NUT)
---------------------
From: dag...@qnx.com (David Gibbs)
Subject: Trolls and other miscellany
Message-ID: <940114014...@qnx.com>
Date: 13 Jan 94 15:44:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2797
Just a few comments on a couple threads that have been wandering through
the digest lately -- one old, one new.
First on trolls, trollkin, etc.
Somebody noted that Great Trolls were "created" by Cragspider
in an attempt to re-create Mistress-race Trolls. In the RQ2
rules, it claims the Cragspider created them for her personal
bodyguard, but I also recall that they were created by one of
her attempts to break the trollkin curse.
The other attempt resulted in litters of trollkin, instead
of single trollkin births. (An interesting side result of this,
is that if an Uzko mother has twins, and they are Uzko, they may
be treated as Enlo, since multiple births are "always" Enlo.)
The old rules imply that trollkin breed true, but that many
are born dead. The idea of many stillbirths makes sense, and
that the ones that survive tend to be even weaker makes sense
as well -- or maybe it also follows the split rule, some are
normal trollkin, some are weaker.
Also, does any "miscegenation" occur between the different types
of trolls? For instance, what would the off-spring of an Uzuz
father and an Uzko mother be -- guaranteed Uzko, or is there a
chance of an Uzuz child? Would this reduce or eliminate the
chance of Enlo children? What of vice-versa, Uzuz mother,
Uzko father? I feel that this is far less likely to happen,
Different topic --
A while back there was some discussion on how to do in the
Crimson Bat. One method that wasn't suggested was to get a
really big lightbringer priest to kill it. How about Gonn
Orta, a 150m tall giant who is also an Issaries priest.
(150m at 3d6 str/2m and 3d6 size/2m [both plus 18] gives an
average strength and size both of about 800. This gives
Gonn Orta an attack bonus of about 780%, and a damage bonus
of about 98d6 for an average damage bonus of 343! Plus
any damage from the weapon he wields, and he gets a special
hit 156%, and a critical 39% of them time. Now the bat
only has 85 armor, and 162 hp, so one blow and it is toast.
I wonder what the range penalties are for throwing a rock
from a km away.) Of course, you have to convince Gonn Orta
to do something.
-David Gibbs
(dag...@qnx.com)
---------------------
From: msh...@eis.calstate.edu (Mark Sheinberg)
Subject: Antii-Archer Spell
Message-ID: <940114064...@eis.calstate.edu>
Date: 14 Jan 94 06:41:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2798
Anti Archer Spell:
[BA
Attract Missiles (Sorcery) Ranged Passive Temporal
If the caster overcomes the target's magic points, the spell
causes the next missile aimed at the target or at anyone touchin
the target to strike the target. An individual standing
between the target and a missile user may be struck
by happenstance. Even a missile that would normally miss will strike the target
Each additional point of intinsety increase the number of
missiles drawn to the target by 1. Thus if a target
were hit by an intensity 7 attract missile spell,
the next 7 missiles fired at him or at anyone touching him
would strike him. The spell has no effect on melee weapons.
Source: Heroes Magazine #6
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Message-ID: <1994011407...@radiomail.net>
Date: 14 Jan 94 07:06:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2799
>From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
>archery accuracy and effectivity are much higher than the
>percentages allow for
What we don't know anything about with our own practice is armor and shield
penetration.
>a musket bullet may have the higher velocity
>when hitting the target compared to an arrow (I'm not too sure about
>that)
I do know that a crossbow has a much greater "muzzle velocity" than a bow
(90 metres/s vs about 44 metres/s for a longbow -- the more powerful
composite bows can shoot at 90 m/s). Slings can exceed 28 m/s.
I think damage is actually related to momentum (mv), but if your energy
formula is correct, then the mass of the projectile is far less important
than the velocity. I believe modern bullets are supersonic...
And "Vegetius said that biconical sling missles were more deadly than
arrows against opponents clad in leather armor. Even if the missile did not
penetrate the armor, Vegetius noted, it was capable of inflicting a fatal
internal injury." Peruvian slings were also effective; a Spaniard said "I
have seen how a stone flung from a sling over a distance of 30 paces broke
in two a sword that a man was holding in his hand."
Incidentally, my notes say that the English military longbow target
practice was often held at 200 metres, well past RQ's effective range.
I'm strongly leaning towards giving some shield value if the shield owner
does nothing but hold it up and try to block arrows. In PenDragon Pass,
probably 3 points (half shield value), no roll required.
Joerg and Brent, I'll be bringing my PowerBook and modem, but I can't
promise time to report until I get back. I'll try, however.
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: sc...@central.sussex.ac.uk (Jonathan Eyre)
Subject: Re: R
Message-ID: <12593.199401141122@solx1>
Date: 14 Jan 94 11:22:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2800
Re: David Gibbs' comments...
GONN ORTA vs. THE CRIMSON BAT
Yeah, kinda like the old Hulk vs. The Thing issues of Fantastic 4!
Gonn Orta Strides up with a bagfull of rocks, and starts heaving them
at the Bat (no doubt wiping one or two lunars out in the process),
while the Bat wheels and dives around. Hmm.
Jon Eyre (sc...@central.susx.ac.uk)
---------------------
From: ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Glorantha's far east + some other
Message-ID: <940114171...@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 14 Jan 94 19:10:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2801
I am planning a campaign set in the far east of Glorantha, mainly
the East Isles, with excursions to Kralorela and Teshnos. There is
comparatively little information on the east so I would very much
appreciate ideas and stuff from others who have run campaigns there.
If you have something that doesn't seem to be of general interest
for the readers of the Daily I would appreciate email to me as
well. I do have some specific questions too:
1. Golden Mokato is specified as the centre of the second age
Eastern Sea Empire which 'ruled half the seas', but according
to various accounts of the world history the God Learners
ruled the seas and coastal areas. In the east they even
overthrew the Dragon Emperor of Kralorela for a while. I
can't figure a good compromise for this. Suggestions?
2. Does anyone have any information/ideas on Vormainian colour
magic? Some of the Vormain gods are mentioned in the Proso-
paedia in GoG, but what the colour magic is about is not
explained.
3. I didn't plan on using the island of Teleos, but I'm curious
about the almost total lack of information. Is it a blank land?
Now for some other things:
Sandy Petersen's Tekumel/RQ:
Looks very 'Tekumelish' with the extravagant magic with florid names.
I wouldn't expect character's to live long in a campaign with all
that magic around though.
Arkat/Gbaji dispute:
I'm definitely on the 'Arkat = good guy' side, but Gbaji at least did
one good thing: the trollkin curse (yes I am a fundamentalistic
troll hater :-)).
Yara Aranis' anti-archery magic:
I agree with whoever it was who suggested a warping of vision to destroy
the archers' aim. This is entirely in line with the lunar way (curved
lines, distortion of other philosophies).
/Nils W
---------------------
From: eo...@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
Subject: Anti-archer spell
Message-ID: <940114180...@raesp-farn.mod.uk>
Date: 14 Jan 94 18:06:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2802
That anti-archer spell seems a bit serious - bung it on the enemy captain, get
your greenhorn militia to let off a really weedy volley and - wham -, human
pincushion time. How about instead a +5% to hit per intensity ?
Geoff
---------------------
From: AB...@GEEL.DWT.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Bean)
Subject: Using Horse archery to kill
Message-ID: <9401151731...@GEEL.DWT.CSIRO.AU>
Date: 16 Jan 94 04:31:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2803
As some one commented on earlier but I would like to reinforce in
primitive socities staying at a distance and peppering your opponents
with bow fire is the work of cowards or elves. Speaking from my experience
as a Pentan youth in a campaign I am playing part of my growing-up
process is going out and slaying a number of my tribe's enemies to
prove I am worthy of adulthood (I bring back their jawbones as proof).
We have left as a group and although I am the best rider and archer in the
party everyone one of us knows that only cowards do not rush forward and
fight their opponents person to person.
We found a Red Tribes wagon train
(although it took us a while to work out what the hell was going on since
we had never seen such things before, we only found out their name by
chance as it was) and after circling it for a couple of rounds I ended up
being dared by the older tribes member who was leading us at the time
(NPC) to see if I could get their first. So you had this charge of young
tribesmen and women racing their horses to get at the wagons and beat the
other members of their groups so that they could slay more of the enemy
themselves (overconfidence has been a bit of a problem so far) [My horse
did get there first]. We were too busy urging our horses to waste time
firing bows.
The only people who practice horse archery as a specific skill are
Yelmalion Kuschile Horse Archers and they are only a minor hero cult
of that lot anyway. My Pentan would certainly regard Horse archery for
more than one round, as you close, to be cowardice. I think this would
be true for a lot of Gloranthan cultures and will be a big advantage
to whatever culture eventually shrugs off the cowardice view. Perhaps
the Yelm cultures were the only ones who became sufficiently advanced
to do this and they still prefer massed hoplite slug it out fests anyway.
As for Yara Aranis she is feared because she is the daughter of the
demoness Eater of Horses, one of Pents worse nightmares. The Lunars
would not be afraid of Mongol horse archery tactics so much as a huge
massed charge by mounted cavalrymen. [If the Lunars used hoplite
squares to try and stop this then they probably would be showered by
arrows until the square broke and the charge would have a chance to
get in to allow close quarters combat]. Anyway I think Yara Aranis
spells should frighten horses by putting images in the horses minds
of their ancient fear of her mother. Bit like a befuddle in its ability
to affect the mind but causing fear. If it is a Rune spell have it area
affecting; if a spirit magic spell then have it work on one horse at
a time POW vs POW. It would be used to break up the charge and throw
the warriors into confusion allowing a disciplined unit of spearmen or
even ragged militia a chance at cleaning up the disorganised Pent line.
Perhaps the Yara Aranis worshippers do have a role in defending
the Lunar Settler and educating their militia but considering they
are worshipper of a demi-demoness I think they would be more likely to be a
mob of feared (by your average Lunar peasant) loonies into much
bloody sacrifice of their enemies and their horses. Remember First Slave
was bound by Yara Aranis as she was still a new-born babe. I can't
see her ever being viewed as anything other than a necessary evil.
Fear the return of the Teetons to our lands in the Dara Happan valleys!
Sheng Seleris will live again!!
Andrew
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: RQ-Con Report
Message-ID: <1994011513...@radiomail.net>
Date: 15 Jan 94 13:18:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2804
A brief report..
Mike Dawson was selling (and autographing) the nicely-produced Codex. Much
of it's been in the Digest, but I overheard one person say it was worth
buying just for the picture of the Rubble Runner Broo.
The con got started a little late, but other than that, seems to be running
smoothly. The 18:30 starting time meant that many people went hungry during
the first events.
The new "RQ4," "Adventures in Glorantha," was seen. (Distribution of this
draft is going to be more limited than earlier drafts.)
My "Horses of the Sun" went pretty well, even if Nazila Moonsmile managed
to dupe the characters (I didn't create Trusting characters, but nobody
made their suspicious rolls...).
I've got a lot of interesting Home of the Bold stuff to read tonight -- it
looks very well done (including actual Lunars, that I'm going to be loath
to spend).
David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddu...@radiomail.net
(on the road in Baltimore)
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: RQ-Con Report day 2
Message-ID: <1994011606...@radiomail.net>
Date: 16 Jan 94 06:00:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2805
A quick report from the 2nd day:
Greg Stafford talked about heroquests. Here are some disjointed notes:
They're no longer Super-RuneQuest. It's not enough just to be a Humakti --
you have to be a good Humakti, you have to be willing to die. Greg hasn't
found a single player willing to go on the heroquest where you're
guaranteed to meet Humakt. He recommended the 2nd posthumous Campbell book,
and made the analogy between Gloranthan heroquesting and roleplaying.
Support from your family and clan is very important (on Orlanth's
Lightbringer Quest, a feather drifting down which revives him represents
the support of Elmal and others who stayed behind). "All ceremonies and
rituals are heroquests -- little ones." "You can be dragged involuntarily
into a heroquest" by an enemy. No change in Glorantha can ever appear
without the Trickster.
I skipped the Nick Brooke session to make sure I got to eat before Home of
the Bold. Which was a lot of fun. Lots of great costumes, good roleplaying,
and confusion. In the end, martial law was declared too late, and the
Sartarite rebellion swept the Lunars out of Boldhome.
David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddu...@radiomail.net
(on the road in Baltimore)
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: pears...@bt-web.bt.co.uk (pearse_w_r)
Subject: RQ/Tekumel Questions
Message-ID: <940117102...@Sun.COM>
Date: 17 Jan 94 10:20:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2807
I've now read Sandy P's RQ/Tekumel rules, in conjunction with the
DeluxeRQ III rules, and I have some questions, if anyone would be kind
enough to help me with them. Of course I may be missing
the obvious, as a newcomer to playing RQ, so all input welcome. I tried
rolling up a starting character, and got stuck. This is where...
MAG is presumably Pedhetl. But what is it used for? Everything seems
to use 'Magic Bonus'. I'm deeply confused about how the magic system
works.
Is sorcery the only type of magic in RQ/Tekmel?
Magic Bonus - how can this be less than zero? (Character Generation
section 2)
Character Generation section 4 - what is the sorcery stat? And what
is the INT+POW-20?
Something is missing from the paragraph about speciality weapons like
the 'Whispering Death'.
In the magic rules, reference is made to the five basic magic skills.
Intensity, Duration, Range and multispell are detailed later. What is
the fifth one?
What starting spells do you have? Do you memorise chosen spells, and
if so is it INT related as in RQIII?
On a different note:
What do you do about monsters? I know the Tekumel Bestiary is in
print, so presumably it can be adapted with a bit of initiative.
All input gratefully received.
Roger Pearse
---------------------
From: bo...@marin.unit.no
Subject: Rough Guide of Boldhome
Message-ID: <940117144...@mkws2.marina.unit.no>
Date: 17 Jan 94 16:46:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2808
I was not among the lucky guys who reached the RQ-con
last week-end, so could there be one of them who agrees
to send us, the unlucky, a copy of the "Rough guide of
Boldhome" that was given to the players during the convention ?
Thanks in advance, Olivier
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: RQ-Con Report Day 3
Message-ID: <1994011718...@radiomail.net>
Date: 17 Jan 94 18:02:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2809
As other days, I got up and ate a leisurely breakfast, and missed the first
session.
Greg Stafford gave an entertaining summary of English history in general
and William the Marshall in particular (William was apparently a model for
Lancelot when the Arthurian legends were actually written down), as well as
Thomas Mallory (who I'd never known was a knight who kept getting arrested
for raiding Church property, and wrote Morte D'Arthur in prison).
The RuneQuest Renaissance session generated the variety of discussion you
might expect. Best new idea I heard was that Borderlands (or something like
it) be the next release after RQ4/Glorantha.
The auction appeared to generate a great deal of money (maybe the con will
break even?). A 1st edition White Bear Red Moon sold for something like
$110. I left after Griffin Mountain went for $70 (and many other items were
over $40).
The only RQ game I played was a "sticks & shamanism" heroquest, which was
quite enjoyable.
Crab dinner with Sandy Petersen was a mild disappointment (oops, you can't
get whole crabs in winter), but we did hear about the broo who'd mated with
a cast iron stove (and could open a door so you could see the fire in his
belly), and why most broos are goat-like (goats graze on higher hills than
sheep, and are less tended), that Danfive Xaron killed Teelo Nori during
the ritual to bring back the Red Goddess (which is why she has no cult),
and that the Jrusteli had mined the Block, and about the Jrusteli-caused
Hungry Ghosts/Cannibal Cult in Kralorela.
BTW, in the local paper, the Sun(!), was the headline "Huge Raid Closes the
Block."
David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206-783-7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddu...@radiomail.net
(on the road in Denver)
---------------------
From: ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28)
Subject: "VARIOUS FROM SATURDAY
Message-ID: <5690*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 17 Jan 94 20:12:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2810
Nils Weinander in X-RQ-ID: 2801
>1. Golden Mokato is specified as the centre of the second age
> Eastern Sea Empire which 'ruled half the seas', but according
> to various accounts of the world history the God Learners
> ruled the seas and coastal areas. In the east they even
> overthrew the Dragon Emperor of Kralorela for a while. I
> can't figure a good compromise for this. Suggestions?
Easy. The God Learners ruled over the seas north and west of Magasta's
Pool, up to the Kralori coast, and on the Pamaltelan coast up to the Maslo
Sea. The lands beyond were visited (maybe), but never part of the Empire of
the Middle Sea. (Even though Kralorela was ruled by a band of God Learners,
it never payed respect or homage to the Jrusteli emperor.)
This leaves al of the eastern seas open for Mokato to rule. From theit
point of view, certtainly half the the seas, if not more.
>2. Does anyone have any information/ideas on Vormainian colour
> magic? Some of the Vormain gods are mentioned in the Proso-
> paedia in GoG, but what the colour magic is about is not
> explained.
Little beyond that, and creative speculation.. The colours seem to take the
role the Runes did in certain other cultures.
>3. I didn't plan on using the island of Teleos, but I'm curious
> about the almost total lack of information. Is it a blank land?
Not at all. In King of Sartar there is a brief allusion of Harrek's and
Argrath's activities there (around p.20), indicating that the unpublished
Harreksaga has details. There are several other brief allusions strewn
across material related mainly to other regions, all hinting at fairly
worked out myths. I'll check my (still growing, and far from complete)
encyclopaedia for references.
>Now for some other things:
>Arkat/Gbaji dispute:
>I'm definitely on the 'Arkat = good guy' side, but Gbaji at least did
>one good thing: the trollkin curse (yes I am a fundamentalistic
>troll hater :-)).
In the battle of the City of miracles, Arkat and Gbaji finally merged,
IMHO. In Cults of Terror there is the most detailed account on Arkat's
wars, and there it is stated that Arkat was not a troll anymore after he
returned with the broken body of Gbaji. (The trolls say so, too.) His reign
afterwards had much in common with the early years of Nysalor's reign, so
whoever returned from that battle, it seems it was the good guy. Let's call
him Arkat.
Unrelated questions:
Do we know anything about the Galanini from Ralios except the few tidbits
in "Dorastor Land of Doom", Elder Secrets and King of Sartar, and their god
Ehilm? And what does a fire god have to do with Hsunchen worship of horses?
Did anyone else stumble about the phrase that Orlanth bathed in the Flame
or Fire of Ehilm when proving his sincerity before Yelm in the Lightbringers
Quest? Why Ehilm? Is that just another Sun/Sky/Fire god, like Elmal,
Yelmalio, Yu-kargzant, Yelm? Is that the sorcerer and false god the
Brithini and some Malkioni claim him to be? If so, why was he or his flame
present in hell? Where were Worlath, or Humct?
I'll never understand this solar muck-up of responsibilities. How much more
pleasing the singleminded contrariness of the Storm deities in legend, even
though this Riddler Nick Brooke makes me confuse Ragnaglar with Vadrus.
Anyone there to enlighten (NOT illuminate) me?
Joerg Baumgartner
ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de
---------------------
From: ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28)
Subject: "HORSES ARCHERS MOON GODDESSES
Message-ID: <5691*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 17 Jan 94 20:13:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2811
Andrew Bean in X-RQ-ID: 2803
>As some one commented on earlier but I would like to reinforce in
>primitive socities staying at a distance and peppering your opponents
>with bow fire is the work of cowards or elves. Speaking from my experience
>as a Pentan youth in a campaign I am playing part of my growing-up
>process is going out and slaying a number of my tribe's enemies to
>prove I am worthy of adulthood (I bring back their jawbones as proof).
[nice story about a Pentan's adventures deleted]
That's why disorganized Pent tribes pose no real threat, but are a bloody
nuisance. They become dangerous when united by a great hero (like Hyalor
who I suppose led the conquest of Dara Happa before the Dawn, or like Sheng
Seleris or his lieutenants, the last of whom died in the Nights of Horror).
>The only people who practice horse archery as a specific skill are
>Yelmalion Kuschile Horse Archers and they are only a minor hero cult
>of that lot anyway.
And they are Sartarites! Well, Manirians, in all likelyhood. In King of
Sartar the Hyaloring triarchy of Colymar Clans seem to have been Elmal/
Yelmalio worshipping Orlanthi, who are descendants of Kuschile.
Now the name Hyaloring seems to suggest Pentan or Dara Happan ancestry
(I always figured Hyalor Horsebreaker to be Pentan), but during the Second
council or during EWF times such cultural mingling might have occured. The
Pol Joni and the Grazers and the centaurs all seem to be descendants of the
Pure Horse Tribe of Prax, sometimes through the agency of others (Praxians
casting the Black Net at Alavan Argay which Derik Pol Joni retrieved in his
heroquest and drew his horse-riding followers from, the Remakers of the
Dragon Pass Lakes (today's Upland Marsh) and Beast Valley (then Remakerela)
are more likely to have found volunteers for their centaur project from this
tribe ("We've found the means to reunite both tribes of Yelm's children, the
horses and the riders") than from anyone else, and the Grazeland pony breeders
either descend directly from refugees from Alavan Argay, or from "butchered"
pain centaurs, or both).
Maybe Kuschile still was a Pentan...
>My Pentan would certainly regard Horse archery for
>more than one round, as you close, to be cowardice.
but
>[If the Lunars used hoplite
>squares to try and stop this then they probably would be showered by
>arrows until the square broke and the charge would have a chance to
>get in to allow close quarters combat].
In the example of your young Pentan initiation fights, there was little to
be gained from volley and run tactics. The opponents were not a massed body
of fighters, rather a weak tribe on the march. I agree that agains such
opponents, chivalry (i.e. hitting them in melee instead of firing) is very
much in character. After the first failed charge into a body of pikemen,
everyone but lunatics would employ missile fire tactics against such troops.
>I think this would
>be true for a lot of Gloranthan cultures and will be a big advantage
>to whatever culture eventually shrugs off the cowardice view. Perhaps
>the Yelm cultures were the only ones who became sufficiently advanced
>to do this and they still prefer massed hoplite slug it out fests anyway.
I think this is more due to their shortage in horses (and riding technology)
in those fat Oslir Valley cities than to preferred combat techniques.
Yelm's weapon in the contest of arms was the bow, and he lost only because
Orlanth cheated (sez the Yelm cult).
>As for Yara Aranis she is feared because she is the daughter of the
>demoness Eater of Horses, one of Pents worse nightmares. The Lunars
>would not be afraid of Mongol horse archery tactics so much as a huge
>massed charge by mounted cavalrymen.
They seemed quite unafraid when facing the Praxian nomads at Moonbroth, and
also on Sor-eels expedition to the Paps in 1605. And a charge from horseback
surely looks pale compared to a charge of Bison lancers.
>Anyway I think Yara Aranis
>spells should frighten horses by putting images in the horses minds
>of their ancient fear of her mother. Bit like a befuddle in its ability
>to affect the mind but causing fear. If it is a Rune spell have it area
>affecting; if a spirit magic spell then have it work on one horse at
>a time POW vs POW. It would be used to break up the charge and throw
>the warriors into confusion allowing a disciplined unit of spearmen or
>even ragged militia a chance at cleaning up the disorganised Pent line.
Illusion powers lie in the realm of the generic Moon Goddess in RQ3. Yara
Aranis _is_ a moon goddess, and might have a specialized illusion power.
Carnivore odours, coupled with the stench of blood (of freshly sacrificed
horses?) and images of teeth might well do the trick. As might a create
ghost ritual performed on the sacrificed horse, to be released on the
approaching cavalry.
Fear is a darkness emotion, and the Lunars have various darkness ties,
which would make this fit, too. As creatures of the sky, i.e. light,
application of darkness must be more terrifying to horses than fire.
>Perhaps the Yara Aranis worshippers do have a role in defending
>the Lunar Settler and educating their militia but considering they
>are worshipper of a demi-demoness I think they would be more likely to be a
>mob of feared (by your average Lunar peasant) loonies into much
>bloody sacrifice of their enemies and their horses. [...]
>I can't see her ever being viewed as anything other than a necessary evil.
The Lunars seem to love their necessary evils in the hour of need, which
occurs about 24 times a day if you live next to horse barbarians. Which
Lunar peasant knows her mother? All know her father, the benevolent and wise
Red Emperor (please excuse this Lunar propaganda). And then there are a lot
more entities in the pantheon to be feared. Anyone volunteer for a Jakaleel
ritual? For Danfive Xaron? For the Blue Moon (hah, you blew your cover)?
>Remember First Slave
>was bound by Yara Aranis as she was still a new-born babe.
Is this from "The History of the Lunar Empire" in one of the early Heroes
issues?
Very much obliged to David Dunham's efforts in Monday's digest. Too bad my
modem is defect (this is from my work account). In spirit we're there...
Joerg Baumgartner
ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de
---------------------
From: MIL...@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
Subject: Carmania sources
Message-ID: <01H7SW69J...@wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: 17 Jan 94 15:49:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2812
Hi Everyone,
Carmanian information wanted...
I'm back from RQ-Con and fired up with enthusiasm or something a lot
like it and so was casting about for an area to write about with an
eventual goal of publication. Judging from the talk at the convention
Carmania would be a good place to write about if you wanted to get
published. It is on the edge of the detailed areas so there is some
background but not enough so that you would get gregged at every turn,
and the bare bones of the politics as described in Glorantha:
Genertela sound really wild, there are some great ruins around Castle
Blue that would do with detailing, and the city of Harandash
especially sounds like a great base for a campaign. So I'd like to
start working on it, but I'd like to know first if anybody has any
more detail about Carmania than is found in the Genertela Book. I know
that Nick Brooke is writing a tome on Carmanian myth and religion, and
that the Carmanian schools of sorcery are detailed in the RQ4 draft,
but what else is known? For instance, if anybody knows anything
definite about kinship relations and inheritance in Carmania I'd love
to hear it. Upon those details rest the most interesting adventure
hooks I've come up with. There are plenty of other hooks, but kinship
is so basic to culture and there isn't anything about Carmanian
kinship in GG. Also does anybody has a more detailed map than is in GG
or can they tell me officially where Spol, Jhor, Worion, the Western
Reaches (I don't know where they start and Bindle begins), and
Burntwall would be on the map? One of the first things I plan to do is
make a map, since the layout of the country influences a lot of the
stories that can be told in it.
Thanks in advance!
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller internet: MIL...@wharton.upenn.edu
"Enough sound bites. Let's get to work." -- Ross Perot sound bite
---------------------
From: prh...@wam.umd.edu (Philip Rhinelander)
Subject: A Lurker surfaces...
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9401180...@rac5.wam.umd.edu>
Date: 17 Jan 94 19:54:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2813
Hello all, first post to this group. I just got back from RQCon
and can state that it was absolutly, positivly the best Con I have ever
attended. As a dedicated RQ/Glorantha nut, I will admit a certain bias;
I had high hopes for this Con, and I am glad to say that they were
exceeded. David Cheng, et. al., thank you and I will do my best to make
it to #2.
Ok, as I mentioned this is my first post to this group. I've been
lurking for a month or so, and know that I *should* post some blasphemous
heresy to stir up the pot, but I'm just fresh out of heresy this morning :)
I would like to pose the following, however. In the campaign I'm running, my
party spends a great deal of time away from thier birth lands; i.e.
Lightbringers in the South Seas, Pamaltela, etc. Now, most are just
reaching Rune level, and I am trying to figure out how to handle thier
relationship with thier distant Temples. Do they really need to hop the
pond back to Genertela just to refresh thier Rune magic? More basic to
this question (I think) is the question of proselytism; what does the
Compromise say about the ability of the Lightbringer pantheon to win new
followers? The Lunar empire has demonstrated the effectivness of this
approach (but my understanding is that She may not be so tightly bound by
the Web).
Anyway, how do *you* handle characters cut off from thier native
temples?
PHR - prh...@wam.umd.edu -
---------------------
From: ap...@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon D. Appel)
Subject: RQ-Con Report I: The Issaries Grand Market
Message-ID: <1994011805...@erzo.berkeley.edu>
Date: 17 Jan 94 13:27:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2814
Well, I'm back from RQ-Con, and let me say this: it was a real blast.
David Cheng did an excellent job of putting together a convention that
was well worth the $$$ it cost. My congratulations and thanks to him.
I've got pages and pages of notes on the convention that I'm going to
try and pass on in the next couple of days. Here, I start with some
notes on the many goodies that were available at RQ-Con, beginning
with a report on the prices that items went for at auction.
THE AUCTION
As usual, old RQ2 items went for high prices. I found it very useful
when, last year, a Convulsion attendee reported on the prices at
auction. So below I've compiled the majority of the auction results
from RQ-Con:
RQ Items:
Apple Lane, First Edition $7
Big Rubble $80
Cults of Prax (poor) $60
Cults of Terror $100
Griffin Mountain (good) $70,65,65
Griffin Mountain (worn) $55
Legendary Duck Tower $25
Nomad Gods $185,180
Pavis $95
Quest World $31
RuneQuest, First Edition $50
RuneQuest, Second Edition (good) $31,30
RuneQuest, Second Edition (poor) $20
Snake Pipe Hollow, First Edition $35
SoloQuest $16
SoloQuest 2: Scorpion Hall $31
SoloQuest 3: The Snow King's Bride $12
Trollpak, First Edition $40,35
Trollpak, First Edition (books only) $25
White Bear, Red Moon, First Edition $110
White Bear, Red Moon, First Edition (Rules Only) $30,30
White Bear, Red Moon, Second Edition $50
Set of Apple Lane, First Edition, Ballastor's Barracks $46,29
Set of Apple Lane, First Edition, Snake Pipe Hollow, First
Edition $52
Set of Broken Tree Inn, Hell Pits of Nightfang #30
Set of Militia & Merceneries, Ballastor's Barracks,
Creatures of Chaos $50
Set of Plunder, Gateway Bestiary, Creatures of Chaos $50
Set of Plunder, RuneMasters, RQ issue of the Dungeoneer $50
Special RQ Items:
Home of the Bold, Complete Set $180
King of Sartar Draft $16
Log of Sandy Peterson's Campaign $105
RuneQuest Buttons $24
Staffordian Maps of Colymar Lands, God Learner Myth Maps, etc $102
Strangers in Prax Draft $37
Sun County, Signed $30
Other Items:
Divine Right $45,25
Dragon Pass, First Edition $60
Call of Cthulhu, Third Edition (GW) $16
Elric Boardgame, First Edition $19
Lords of the Middle Seas $9
The Pendragon Campaign $12
Pendragon Noble's Book $10
Perilous Encounters $17,17
RingWorld Companion $13,12
StormBringer, First Edition $15
SuperWorld (books only) $7
Thieves' World $10
Magazines:
Different Worlds #1 $70
Different Worlds #4,16,18,26,27,38,41,43 $22
Different Worlds #8,9,14,15,17,29 $30
Different Worlds #16,20 $13
Different Worlds #22 (RQ Special Issue) $50
Different Worlds #24 (the Mostali Issue) $19,17
Different Worlds #2-21,23-25,27-28 $105
White Dwarf #19,40,51 $22
White Dwarf #14,30,54, Best of White Dwarf Scenerios $17
Wyrm's Footnotes #5 $54,42
Wyrm's Footnotes #6 $70
Wyrm's Footnotes #7 $60
Wyrm's Footnotes #8 $65
Wyrm's Footnotes #9 $50
Wyrm's Footnotes #10 $60
Wyrm's Footnotes #11 $50?
Wyrm's Footnotes #12 $40
Wyrm's Footnotes #13 $40,23
Wyrm's Footnotes #14 $27
I personally spent nearly $400 at the auction. Wyrm's Footnotes are
expensive!
OTHER ITEMS FOR SALE
Several other interesting things were for sale at RQ-Con. Among them:
CODEX #1: The first issue of an interesting new magazine. It contains
lots of info on Pavis and the Rubble, written by Mike Dawson, Martin
Crim and others. It's really well done, and I'd suggest that everyone
get a copy. You can get more information by mailing to:
THE GLORIOUS REASCENT OF YELM: A draft of a work in progress, this 82
page book contains Stafford's notes on the mythological history of the
Solar deities. It's really quite amazing. I don't know about the
continued availability of tGRoY, but I'm sure it'll be announced here.
If you can get a copy, do.
That's about it for the Issaries elements of RQ-Con. If I get the
time tomorrow, I'll write up some notes on the Wisdom of the Grey
Sages.
A NOTE ON RQ-CON 2
RQ-Con 2 will be held in the San Francisco Bay Area in January of
1995. We'll be featuring the latest and greatest LARP out of England,
How the West was Won. If you'd like to get on the mailing list for
RQ-Con 2, just drop me a line (ap...@erzo.berkeley.edu).
Shannon
---------------------
From: ap...@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon Appel)
Subject: RQ-Con Report I: The Issaries Grand Market (Addendum)
Message-ID: <1994011807...@erzo.berkeley.edu>
Date: 17 Jan 94 15:39:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2815
Cleaning out my bag, I realized that I missed one thing on my list of cool
stuff available at RQ-Con:
RUNEQUEST III PERFECT BOUND: The reprint of the third edition rules is
finally available. It should be out in shops in a week or so. It's just
a reprint of the 5 RQ III books in a perfect bound, but I thought it was
worth buying just for the convenience factor. I _think_ it cost $25, although
I don't recall for sure.
Shannon
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: kl...@diku.dk
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 14 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <1994011813...@rimfaxe.diku.dk>
Date: 18 Jan 94 15:33:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2816
I have seen thank you notes for the RQ Tekumel rules posted here,
but not the rules themselves. How can I get these rules?
Klaus O K
---------------------
From: bra...@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski)
Subject: runequest-con
Message-ID: <940118151...@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov>
Date: 18 Jan 94 15:11:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2817
Whew! RQ-Con is over and I can relax! I'd be very interested in hearing from
people who played in Home of the Bold and Mark Wallace's games
(Blood of the Earth, Ties of Bread and Salt, and Bones of a Nation), both
praise and criticism. HOTB will probably be run once again, so your advice is
very important. How did you like the games? What was especially fun, and what
was boring?
Brandon
---------------------
From: craw...@explorer.clark.net (D.Schubert)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 18 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9401181026.A24131-0100000@explorer>
Date: 18 Jan 94 06:12:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2818
Hello everyone,
hehe, I'm still recovering from RQ-Con....some time next week I should
have positive fatigue points again... It was great! Best con I've been
to (others being Origins). What a blast it was to spend a weekend with
140+ RQers (and not a bad one in the bunch). David Cheng deserves much
praise. The quality of GMing/Scenarios was super. John Boyle ran a great
adventure into the Big Rubble. Another good adventure was Bones of a Nation.
This scenario was filled with politics and deception and (hack) Lunar
scum. The best part was having two GMs run it, which allowed more
interaction and avoided the problem of break periods when the party split
into groups (since each GM could run one of the splits). Having two GMs
was a great experience and is something others should try.
Personal highlights: got the new single bound RQIII, met other
RQers in the Baltimore/D.C. area, purchased a copy of White Bear/Red
Moon, met folks from all over the world (france, north of Ireland),
played in Sandy's CoC (btw, Kwame is opening up his own practice if
anyone needs medical attention, hehehe), and lots more...
Personal regrets: wasn't able to get a copy of Nomad Gods (hint, if
anyone once to sell a copy please email me), was unable to attend the
Orlanthi story telling and Gregg Stafford reads due to fatigue (I'd love
to get a copy of either if anyone taped them, and did not aquire a
playtest copy of RQIV.
Suggestions for RQ-Con II: hmm, the only thing I can come up with is the
handicapped accessibility of the hotel. The Columbia Inn was terrible,
stairs were plenty and elevators were few. Oh, another idea, include
email addresses on the name tags.
>>BTW, in the local paper, the Sun(!), was the headline "Huge Raid Closes the
>>Block."
hehe, for those not from the Baltimore/D.C. area, the "Block" is the red
light district in Baltimore.
bye,
David Schubert
---------------------
From: sc...@central.sussex.ac.uk (Jonathan Eyre)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 18 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <6279.199401181507@solx1>
Date: 18 Jan 94 15:07:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2819
Reading those RQ-Con auction prices makes me appreciate my AMAZING
good fortune in finding perfect copies of Borderlands, Big Rubble,
Apple Lane and Griffin Mountain in a second hand bookshop, all priced
at two or three quid. Sickening, huh?
Jon
---------------------
From: f6...@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: The CON!
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.4.7...@quads.uchicago.edu>
Date: 18 Jan 94 18:40:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2820
Hello all, Greg Fried here.
Before I read what everyone else thought of the RQ Con I want to toss out my
own impressions.
First of all, I think we all owe a mountain of thanks to David Cheng. He was
a bit hard on himself for the late registration and events tickets -- as far
as I could tell, everything went as smoothly as can be expected among people
as anarchic as we gamer-folk. David did a tremendous organizational job.
For a non-profit venture, the quality of the brochures and his writing and
organizing was outstanding. I cannot imagine the quantity of trivial details
he must have had to cope with, and I sincerely hope he had some spare moments
to enjoy himself! Always cheerful, always witty, always composed -- my hats
off to you, David!
The Live Action PR. Well, I didn't partake in this, by my ow choice. But,
from the outside, I can say it looked like everyone had a whale of a time!
The writers and organizers did a supurb job with background (e.g., _A Rough
Guide to Boldhome_, excellent character profiles) and play detail (e.g., real
minted Lunars!).
Roleplay. My favorite was _Ties of Bread and Salt_, which involved a
party of Praxians of the White Bison Clan following their totem herd
beast into the Grazelands on a mysterious quest. This was GMed by 3
GMs, and was REALLY well done. It was a unique experience to
play in a game with the flexibilty and dramatic effect made possible
by having three GMs.
People. It was GREAT to m eet so many of you face to face! It was
SAD that we were all so busy that I had so little time to hang with
you! This is my only regret from the Con.
The auction. All I can say is, hold on to your RQ stuff -- this stuff
is getting valuable!
My favorite: table top minis! Now, not many will sympathize with me
on this one, but then this was the first time I had EVER played
miniatures wargaming! I really enjoyed it (maybe because my side's
armies won each time!). I play one Tekumel battle, but the one that
particularly caught my attention was the battle played with the rules
being developed by Rory Robertson. Rory has converted RQ rules for
table top battles, and has done a most impressive job. Rory posted his
rules here many months ago, but has since polished and improved them.
The result is a game with that "Gloranthan" feel, which is easy to
learn and which plays fluidly and realistically. The beauty of it is
that it forms a bridge between the ultra detail of RQ roleplay rules
and the abstraction and large scale perspective of war games like
RBWM/Dragon Pass and Nomad Gods. I think this has a real future. Go
for it, Rory!
My one idea for next time: If we decide on the Battle of Moonbroth for
the LARP for next year's Con, how about this: use the LARP for all the
pre-battle intrigue and diplomacy, then use Rory's RQ war game rules
to play out the actual battle after all the diplomacy and intrigue is
done?! What say you all?! Rory?
Enough from me. Thanks to everyone for contributing to a great time.
And thanks to GS for making it all possible.
-- Greg Fried
(PS: I loved the story-telling event, and I LOVED hearing GS read!)
---------------------
From: MIL...@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
Subject: RQ/Tekumel answers
Message-ID: <01H7TZ57K...@wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: 18 Jan 94 10:52:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2821
I was privileged enough to be able to play in Sandy's RQ/Tekumel game
and got to play Siod hiKotaharu (I think that's the spelling) a
feckless apprentice priest of Thumis who was better with his
greatsword than his spells. Luckily for his studies the first thing he
did in the game was shatter that sword while springing a gate. Anyway,
enough war stories... I think I understand a few things about Sandy's
system, at least enough to answer Roger's questions.
pears...@bt-web.bt.co.uk (pearse_w_r) asks:
> MAG is presumably Pedhetl. But what is it used for? Everything seems
> to use 'Magic Bonus'. I'm deeply confused about how the magic system
> works.
RQ/Tekumel mixes a few new things into the RQ3 sorcery magic system.
Mainly, this MAG stat. If it isn't positive then you can't use magic
no matter what your "Magic Bonus" is. Ignore the RQ3 requirements that
state you must have a positive Magic Bonus to learn sorcery, a
positive MAG is good enough in this system.
MAG does a few things.
1. MAG is the limit for all manipulation. So if you have MAG 8 then
you can cast Doomkill intensity 6 and multispell 2, or intensity 8, or
any other combination of manipulations that add up to 8.
{Multispell note: By the way, there is an erratum in the multispell
description in RQ3. If you multispell a spell then all the other
manipulations apply to each of the multispells. Thus Doomkill
intensity 6 multispell 2 would produce 3 doomkills of intensity 6
rather than 3 with 2 intensity each or one 6 and two 1s.}
2. MAG is the limit on how many spells you may know. If your MAG is 6
(like Siod) then you may know no more than 6 spells (Siod knew 4).
3. Every time you roll a critical success on a spell your MAG goes up
one. The upper limit on MAG is 18. At least I think that's the upper
limit, we didn't bump into a situation where it was important.
Also, your MP are computed differently than in RQ3. Add your POW to
your highest sorcery skill/10 (rounded up, and spells count) for your
MP.
> Is sorcery the only type of magic in RQ/Tekmel?
Yes. At least it's the only kind that is known in Tsolyanu and
environs. But who knows what the inimical races do in their poison
cities or what lost galactic civilizations lurk on the other side of
Tekumel?
> Magic Bonus - how can this be less than zero? (Character Generation
> section 2)
Ignore the rule about not being able to learn sorcery if magic bonus
is not positive. MAG is more important.
> Character Generation section 4 - what is the sorcery stat? And what
> is the INT+POW-20?
MAG is the sorcery stat in RQ/Tekumel. INT+POW-20 is the way to
compute the RQ3 magic bonus.
> Something is missing from the paragraph about speciality weapons like
> the 'Whispering Death'.
I suppose Sandy meant that he adapted other RQ3 weapons lists, like
those in Land of Ninja, or that he invented them out of thin air.
> In the magic rules, reference is made to the five basic magic skills.
> Intensity, Duration, Range and multispell are detailed later. What is
> the fifth one?
I think they mean Ceremony, which is central to all magic use. But of
course Enchant and Summon are just as important.
> What starting spells do you have? Do you memorise chosen spells, and
> if so is it INT related as in RQIII?
You choose starting spells or are assigned them, according to the whim
of your temple's tutor. The limit is your MAG, and free int has
nothing to do with it.
> What do you do about monsters? I know the Tekumel Bestiary is in
> print, so presumably it can be adapted with a bit of initiative.
This question I'll leave mostly to Sandy. But when I used a monster
very like the S'su in my Entelechy campaign (OK, I stole the S'su
outright, and even called them the Enemies of Mankind) I just decided
it was a tall humanoid with extra arms, a tough integument, and all
sorts of weird hypnotic and/or mystical abilities. You pretty much
have to reinvent monsters when running RQ/Tekumel.
> All input gratefully received.
>
> Roger Pearse
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller internet: MIL...@wharton.upenn.edu
"Enough sound bites. Let's get to work." -- Ross Perot sound bite
---------------------
From: LO...@marketing.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller)
Subject: Invisible Orlanth question
Message-ID: <78BE7...@marketing.wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: 18 Jan 94 22:13:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2822
In the cult of Invisible Orlanth is Orlanth a prophet of the Invisible God
or an (invisible) representative of the Red Goddess or merely the breath
of the Invisible God? Or what?
"I believe in three gods, the Invisible God who created the universe of
all that is and all that could be, his daughter the Red Goddess, and her
child Orlanth the Healed, who is her breath, subtle and invisible."
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller LO...@wmkt.wharton.upenn.edu
Into the flood again, same old trip it was back when
---------------------
From: f6...@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: East Isles
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.4.7...@quads.uchicago.edu>
Date: 18 Jan 94 23:48:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2823
Greg Fried here again.
Nils asks about the East Isles for a campaign there. I have no specific
answwers to his questions, although speculation might be our only recourse,
I'm afraid.
In the past, I have placed my own pseudo-Gloranthan campaign in the East
Isles. I doubt my materials would pass as orthodox, but if Nils or anyone
else would like my adventure, "Atek's Ghost", I would be happy to send it. I
have offered this scenario, along with its campaign background, before to the
readers of this list, but there are probably many new subscribers now. Write
to me privately, and I will send you the adventure by email. It is suitable
for beginning players.
-- Greg
---------------------
From: ap...@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon D. Appel)
Subject: RQ-Con Report II: Secrets of Arkat
Message-ID: <1994011906...@erzo.berkeley.edu>
Date: 18 Jan 94 14:05:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2824
David Dunham has already provided some notes on the Greg Stafford
HeroQuest seminar, so some of this will be repetitive. However, for
the sake of completeness, I'm including I have below.
GENERAL NOTES
Greg started off by talking about HeroQuest in the most general terms.
He said it would be, in its final form, nothing like his old attempts,
which were basically Super RuneQuest. Unfortunately, Greg doesn't
know when HQ will be written, and he doesn't plan to do so himself at
this time.
BEING A HERO
To be a hero, you need to be close to your cult's ideals. For some
cults, like Orlanth, this is very easy to do. It's a much harder task
for others, like Humakti, however. Greg spoke of how close Humakti
are to death, but mentioned that he had never seen a Humakt who was
_really_ willing to undergo a HeroQuest that simply involved dying.
Yet, what would be a better way to meet the ideals of your God?
TYPES OF GODS
In speaking of the different types of gods, Greg went on to describe
certain "stats" which described gods. There were three in all: "Order
& Justice", "Power & Prestige" and "Love & Desire". Most Gods only
fall into one or two of these categories. Only a few (like Orlanth)
fall into all three.
SUPPORT ON HEROQUESTS
Support is very important on HeroQuests. Not only does it help you
(as when a feather which denoted Orlanth's support revived him from
death upon the LightBringer's Quest), but it also can help the
community that provides the support. If you do well on a HeroQuest,
the community that supports you will benefit. Likewise, if you do
poorly, they will get the bad result as well. HeroQuests which
actually benefit the community are much more powerful than HeroQuests
meant to help only an individual. While a Hero may gain a +100% for
himself in Sword from a Quest, for as long as he lives, he may be able
to give an entire community a +10% forever and ever (at least as long
as they retain some sacred item that he brought back). It was stated
that only those people who help their communities are _True_ Heroes.
ARKAT'S SECRET
Most people probably already know that Arkat's big secret was that he
was able to cross myths, entering one and exiting another. This came
about because, as he was initiated into more and more cults, he began
to recognise certain places in the Hero Plane (such as the Hill of
Gold). Since the time of Arkat, other people have been able to use
this secret, to create new paths in the Hero Plane, such as when Sir
Ethilrist made a new myth, which provided him with the Doom Hound.
GLORANTHAN PLACES OF POWER
All places of power in Gloranthan are powerful because they cross into
different realms. The example of Cragspider's castle was given. Its
basements are, really, honestly, in hell, while its towers touch the
realms of air.
HEROQUESTS & THE REAL WORLD
Greg mentioned that most HeroQuests move in and out of the real world.
You might walk upon the Hero Plane for a few moments, re-enter
Glorantha, and then move back to the Hero Plane once more.
ENEMIES IN THE HERO PLANE
Once you've HeroQuested a few times, you'll probably gain an enemy
there, someone who knows you because you've opposed him in the past on
the Hero Plane. After you've HeroQuested, you'll learn the
unfortunate fact that you can be pulled into a HeroQuest through no
choice of your own, due to your enemy waiting until you are weak, and
then conducting certain rituals to create a HeroQuest which you are
required to participate in.
THE PHAROAH
The final fate of the Pharoah was revealed. Apparently, he was
begining a regular HeroQuest at the start of the MoLaD tournament.
The Lunar Empire was, of course, aware of this HeroQuest, since it
occurred regularly, and so Jar-eel was sent to ambush his spirit in
the Hero Plane. She took the place of one of the Red Guards in the
Hero Plane (the Pharoah had never known who the Red Guards were
before, or why they were there), and easily defeated the Pharoah.
Assumedly, Pharoah was then dragged off to the Lunar Hell where Sheng
Solaris was hidden.
THE TRICKSTER
The final point of the HeroQuest seminar was this: "No change in
Glorantha can occur without the Trickster". That's all.
RQ-CON 2
Finally, just as a reminder, let me say that if you'd like to get on
the rqcon2-info list, to be kept up to date on next year's Con, which
will be held in the San Francisco Bay Area, just drop me a line.
Shannon
---------------------
From: ap...@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon D. Appel)
Subject: RQ-Con Report III: The God Learner Speaks
Message-ID: <1994011906...@erzo.berkeley.edu>
Date: 18 Jan 94 14:17:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2825
The Nick Brooke Cultural Exchange was one of the most fun seminars of
the convention. Unfortunately, I have almost no notes on it. A wide
variety of stuff was discussed including: HeroQuests, Invisible
Orlanth, the Lunars, the Seven Moths, Arkat and the West.
A few of my favorite Brookian theories:
* The Pharoah is really John Carter, Warlord of Mars.
* Chaos is an entirely safe energy source (and, if you just wear these
suits, everything will be fine; all levels are well within acceptable
limits).
* The Lunar Empire is really trying to recreate the Golden Age of
Yelm. They've already gotten rid of the storm gods and placed a Sun
in the Sky that sits, unmoving. Clearly, once they conquer the entire
world, all shall be fixed again.
Again, I'm sorry that I don't have more notes... It was a fun talk.
Time pending, I'll continue tomorrow with some notes on the Gloranthan
Lore Auction. Many interesting things were revealed.
Shannon
---------------------
From: j...@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: Survivor's Report
Message-ID: <940119063...@hp0.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 19 Jan 94 06:35:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2826
RuneQuest-Con was an absolute riotous blast! I am very glad I went,
and am definitely planning on next January in the bay area.
Hmm, maybe even Leichester in July ...
It came off very well, especially Home of the Bold. Let's raise our
glasses <Nick, put that tumbler down.> to toast every one responsible
for managing bits of Chaos so well. See, it is a safe energy source. 8)
It was truly wonderful meeting all of you who made it, and finally
getting to attach faces to the names of many of you. The seminars
were quite good stuff, and even better was getting to corner and
chat with a good number of you folks, especially when it had little
to do with RQ & Glorantha.
Home of the Bold: Glorious Incompetence and Magnificent Decadence
No, I don't mean David Hall and Kevin Jacklyn, when I say incompetent.
I mean MOB and the rest of us running the Lunar High Command. We did
have some flashes of brilliance, such as the great poll tax/vote-rigging
scam of MOB's and Susan's and mine.
But we also had some real wonders, such as General Lergius Cassius
( played by = ? ) deciding to not buy the 300 weapons he had shipped
to Boldhome. Where did he think they'd go? Back to Esrolia?
Also, twice, I had to spend 15 minutes to get an XO@#! Arrest Warrant.
That felt perfect. ( At least I got to have Stafford arrested, and got to
torture him in exchange. Later I got to have him assassinated, but there
was no paper work for that. )
Great sloppy fun.
And on that note, w.r.t. Sunday night:
Paul - Where did you get that schnapps with the gold flakes in it?
Nick - Are you still alive? How much would you pay for the negatives?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"We weren't all that corrupt, but we were *gloriously* incompetent."
-- the now fugitive, ex-Provost of Boldhome, Gordius Silverus (MOB)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| john_...@zycor.lgc.com | Landmark Graphics Corp | 512.292.2325 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: Postm...@aol.com
Subject: Returned Mail Unknown Member
Message-ID: <940119032...@aol.com>
Date: 19 Jan 94 08:20:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2827
[This message looks unsuitable for forwarding.
The list maintainer has been warned.]
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <940119163...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 19 Jan 94 04:31:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2834
WOW! Great Con, Dave! Congratulations. No doubt other Digest writers
will expend praise on RQ Con, so I'll stop with saying that Friday
night's CoC seminar was the best I've ever seen. It was packed with
people who had clever, incisive questions, and who were polite enough
to laugh at all my jokes.
Colin Watson sez:
>I thought the Lunar anti-storm stance was the result of circumstance
>(ie. the Orlanthi cause trouble for the Empire so the Lunars don't
>like Orlanth) rather than general inclination.
There's mythic reasons, too. Both sects vie for control of the Middle
Air. Also, the Red Goddess specially chose Orlanth to be her enemy,
of all the gods. In addition, the fact that most Lunar citizens are
from an anti-Storm society probably exerts influence. Don't forget
the Icebreaker cult -- the most overtly anti-Storm act they do.0
>Wouldn't Lunars exploit storm magic like any other type of magic if
>they got the chance?
No doubt. But they don't really have the opportunity. The only
acceptable "storm" god is Molanni the traitress. The Lunar elemental
gods (the Young Elementals) conspicuous lack any Air/Storm aspect.
anti-archery spell:
How about a ranged Ignite on the bowstrings? It would put the kibosh
on firing any arrows. Even if the fire was put out right away, the
string would be weakened and probably snap.
BOWSLOW. This spell's name must be altered to SLOWDART. In my
opinion.
Dave Dunham asks:
>Are real world arrows less effective than they are in the game? Are
>shields or armor more effective against arrows?
Shields are extraordinarily good vs. arrows. Even the samurai of
Japan used shields against archers (only). In addition, I suspect
massed arrow fire as you gallop by is less than accurate. One known
defense against horse archers is to break up your formation -- the
mass-target that they were aiming at is now no longer present and
most of the arrows miss.
The players in my own campaign soon learned to hold their shields in
front of their vitals as extra armor whenever archers opposed them.
The question is: what defeats horse archers? Historically, I believe
the answer is fortifications and light or medium cavalry.
Allan Henderson disagrees w/me re: Morokanth:
>I believe that the Waha covenant will apply more stronly than
>breaking it to be considered only a faux pas. In Borderlands there
>is a description that morokanth put a herdman than may be a person
>out to live on grass for a week if they thrive then they eat them,
>if they don't then presumably they convert then to herd men and then
>eat them. The important point is that they change them to herd men
>first. The borderland write up of morocanth is very good.
You have misread the point of the Borderlands test. It is NOT
undergone to find out if a person is edible or not! The text clearly
explains that the morokanth do this in order to detect spies posing
as herd-men. If you wanted to make sure the morokanth knew that you
were a real human, all you'd have to do is talk. Remember, the
morokanth slave-herds are so slow-breeding that they can rarely
actually eat their herds, so pretending to be a herd-man is a pretty
safe way to conceal yourself amongst them (Morokanth speak Praxian,
so you don't need to learn a new language). There is no statement in
Borderlands that they "change them to herd men first". Turning
captured spies into herd-men is a fine case of making the punishment
fit the crime. "You posed as a herd-man. Fine, you can BE a
herd-man!"
Humans may also try to pretend to be herd-men when otherwise
captured by the morokanth -- this way you're put in the pen with the
herd, and presumably have a better chance of escaping than if the
morokanth realize you're fully intelligent (in which case they take
you as a normal slave, probably with a slave collar and all).
> I doubt if any initiate or above in Waha would even consider a herd
>man to be human, certainly no closer to human than an ogre is.
Technically true, but they won't eat ogres. While herd-men aren't
considered human by Waha's covenant, I think that eating them is
rather distasteful to most Praxians, just as eating the "human parts"
of a walktapus is distasteful to even decadent Lunars. No doubt
certain Storm Bulls or other individuals are happy to eat herd men,
but the majority of Praxians are no more likely to eat a herd man
than most American males would eat calf fries (testicles).
Mind you, I'm not claiming that morokanth are outright man-eaters.
For one thing, it's economically stupid to eat real humans, when
they're so useful as slaves. And I bet that there are plenty of
morokanth who regard it as a social faux pas to eat humans. I
wouldn't be surprised if, for instance, Eiritha priestesses and maybe
Waha khans were forbidden to ever eat real people (taboo). I'm just
trying to point out that, IMO, the morokanth would have a rather
cavalier attitude towards eating people. And I don't think my
conception of morokanth thus boils down to "monsters without thumbs".
Certainly the fact that trolls, ogres, and dragonewts eat people
unifies these creatures as "monsters with thumbs". Trolls manage to
have a highly complex society, and so can morokanth. In addition, the
morokanth pose the fearful threat that they can actually make you
not-human, turning you into a beast.
By the way, I don't think morokanth would eat elves, dwarfs, or
trolls -- just humans.
CANNIBALISM IN GLORANTHA
Here's my guess at a summary (using as many intelligent species as
possible):
Humans: rare, except Cannibal Cult and bad guys. It's clearly
considered morally reprehensible for humans to eat humans, and my big
book on the subject of anthropophagy points out that societies which
permit it eventually degenerate (at first, they may only eat their
own dead, or the hearts of honored enemies or something defensible,
but ultimately they end up just plain cannibals).
Trolls: it's obviously an integral part of troll psyche, culture, and
society. But it doesn't earn them any friends. It's so widely-known
that I suspect most people think of it as just a quirk of troll
nature, and it doesn't earn the repugnance that a human eating a
trollkin (say) would generate.
Dwarfs & Elves: true, these guys eat one another (and trolls, too),
but only at special ceremonies or else when it is unbeknownst to them
(dwarf canned food). I wouldn't call them cannibals despite this
obscure secret ritual.
Morokanth: my opinions here are widely-known on the Digest.
Broos: they might eat people, but I suspect they do this only in
order to increase the pain and fear felt by their captive. They have
other uses for prisoners, if they take 'em.
Ogres & Giants: both like the taste of people.
Scorpion Men: eat people primarily to gain magic power, not for food.
Beast-men: I suspect only manticores and perhaps wild minotaurs eat
other sentients on a regular basis. I don't see centaurs or satyrs
doing it.
Ducks: obvious non-human eaters
Slarges: They might eat people, but most of them don't think of
humans as sentient -- more the way people think of rabbits or wolves.
Just something to be brushed out of the way as the slarges expand.
Joerg Baumgartner sez:
>The alarm function is more easily obtained by a permanent market
>spell.
A market spell is a bad way to alarm your walls. For one thing, it
takes a LOT of Create Market spells to cover an entire town. In
addition, if any of your soldiers draw their swords (or bows) to
attack an incoming foe, they're toast (attacked by the spell, just
like an enemy).
David Gibbs asks:
>does any "miscegenation" occur between the different types
>of trolls? For instance, what would the off-spring of an Uzuz
>father and an Uzko mother be -- guaranteed Uzko, or is there a
>chance of an Uzuz child? Would this reduce or eliminate the
>chance of Enlo children? What of vice-versa, Uzuz mother,
>Uzko father? I feel that this is far less likely to happen,
Uzuz mother and uzko father I think is as likely as the other way
round. Uzuz are too rare to mate together very frequently, and the
females are the rulers, not the males, so they'd get to pick their
own mates, and may well take in a promising Karrg's Son or Death Lord
for a night's reward.
My own feelings are that uzuz mothers generally give birth to uzko
children, regardless of the father, and uzko mothers w/uzuz fathers
generally give birth to uzko children, too, or at worst a litter of
superior trollkin. Uzuz births are catastrophically rare, only occur
to uzuz mothers (except for Heroquest rituals?) and Divination
generally reveals that there's going to be an uzuz a-coming months
before it's arrival. I expect that numerous Xiola Umbar priestesses
gather for the (difficult) birthing, and approve of the suggested
scenario a week or two ago in which the PCs could encounter a trashed
batch of powerful trolls in the last throes of defending an uzuz
birth from a heroquest influx of chaos.
re: Gonn Orta killing the Crimson Bat
The risk here is that he can't sneak up on the bat (after all, he's
500' tall). Hence, a batch of Lunar priests casting Mindblast or
similar bad spells might be able to incapacitate him before he could
get within a km of the bat. It would be an interesting scenario to
try to get him to the bat to kill it.
Dave Dunham (forgetting RQ rules) sez:
>I'm strongly leaning towards giving some shield value if the shield
>owner does nothing but hold it up and try to block arrows.
The rules state that you can hold a shield over part of your body and
it acts as full add'tl armor for those portions. Bucklers defend the
left arm only. Targets defend left arm and one other hit location.
Kites defend left arm and two other adjacent hit location (in my
campaign, usually chest and abdomen, or sometimes both legs). The
extra 12-16 points for the shield renders arrows much less effective,
which is in fact borne out by ancient battle reports.
Nils Weinander asks:
1. Golden Mokato is specified as the centre of the second age
Eastern Sea Empire which 'ruled half the seas', but according
to various accounts of the world history the God Learners
ruled the seas and coastal areas. In the east they even
overthrew the Dragon Emperor of Kralorela for a while. I
can't figure a good compromise for this. Suggestions?
Mokato ruled all of the East Isles during the Second Age, and was
able to defeat the God Learners in several campaigns fought in an
attempt to invade the East Isles. The God Learners did conquer
Kralorela, but were never able to overwhelm Mokato. Mokato's ships
controlled the East Isles and were common in the central seas,
fighting the Teleos pirates, trading with the Errinoru Elf Empire,
and even dealing with the False Dragon Empire to the north. Perhaps
"ruling" half the seas is a bit of an exaggeration, but they
certainly controlled more of the ocean than any naval empire besides
the God Learners. Perhaps because they were less villainous than any
other of the Second Age Empires, the catastrophes of the age's end
did not wipe out Mokato, but only destroyed its empire, leaving
Mokato intact, but without imperial ambitions.
Note by the way that the God Learners were by no means an organized
empire. The Seshnegi, Jrusteli, False Dragon Empire, and Six-Legged
Empire were all separate national entities, though all were ruled by
God-Learners.
2. Does anyone have any information/ideas on Vormainian colour
magic? Some of the Vormain gods are mentioned in the Proso-
paedia in GoG, but what the colour magic is about is not
explained.
I have written up descriptions of the various color magics.
Basically, they are a new type of magic, different from sorcery,
divine, and spirit. My information is (of course) all tucked away in
storage.
3. I didn't plan on using the island of Teleos, but I'm curious
about the almost total lack of information. Is it a blank
land?
No. It has a long and colorful history. Alas, it hasn't been
published. In the Second Age, it was the Pirate Island, which boasted
a Pirate King, and did many terrible deeds, preying on the shipping
of almost all nations, including the God Learners.
The Closing naturally devastated the Pirates, and when the
seas were opened again, Teleos had no more pirates. Instead, there
are a number of different color-coded peoples living here (I can't
recall whether there are five, or seven) ranging in skin tone from
green, orange, purple, yellow, etc. Each lives in a different section
of the island, and each hates all the other "tribes". Unfortunately
for their antisocial desires, children are rarely the color of their
parents. Thus, a Green may give birth to a Blue, Orange, Purple, etc.
Off-colored children (the norm) are transported to their "proper"
tribe for raising, and such exchanges are made regularly. All the
tribes have certain stereotypic beliefs about the other tribes, and
these are shared. For instance, all the non-Green tribes claim that
the Greens eat live frogs.
So far, the inhabitants of Teleos, while willing to trade,
have been too distracted by their internal disharmony to reopen their
ancient pirate activities.
Andrew Bean sez:
>I would like to reinforce in primitive socities staying at a
>distance and peppering your opponents with bow fire is the work of
>cowards or elves.
Not so. Read THE HISTORY OF WARFARE by John Keegan. Mounted nomad
societies normally engaged in such archery to as great an extent as
they possibly could. The hand-to-hand risk-yourself style of warfare,
a.k.a. as the Western Way of War (a book titled this is also good) is
rare, and was apparently invented by the ancient Greeks, a civilized
people. It was independently invented at least three other times --
once by the Japanese, once by the Maoris of New Zealand (who used it
to battle the invading British to a standstill), and again by the
ancient Easter Islanders (who wiped out their entire society with
it).
Anyway, the point is that standing up and fighting "like a man" is
not a primitive hold-over, but an invention which is apparently none
too easy to figure out. The ancient Persians, Chinese, and nomad
peoples didn't create it. Note that Keegan points out that other
styles of warfare, like the nomad "shoot 'em and run away" can be
effective against the Western style.
W. R. Pearse requests:
>MAG is presumably Pedhetl. But what is it used for? Everything
>seems to use 'Magic Bonus'. I'm deeply confused about how the magic
>system works.
MAG = Pedhetl.In fact, I should have called it Pedhetl, and will do
so from now on. It acts as RQ's Free INT. You cannot manipulate a
spell for more points than your Pedhetl. Thus, if you have a Pedhetl
of 6, you can cast a spell with Intensity 3, Duration 2, and Range 1.
Or with Intensity 6 and naught else, or with Intensity 2 and
Multispell 4, etc. so long as the totals add up to no more than 6.
>Is sorcery the only type of magic in RQ/Tekmel?
No. There are shamans, witches, and stuff out in the villages who
have access to other magic, but I haven't bothered to figure them
out. Probably I'd give them normal shamanic RQ magic, except that
Barker himself doesn't seem to have much of an idea how an actual
shaman works, so maybe a spirit-plane oriented guy is alien to
Tekumel.
>Magic Bonus - how can this be less than zero? (Character Generation
>section 2).
Easy. Have a crappy INT, POW, and DEX.
>Character Generation section 4 - what is the sorcery stat? And what
>is the INT+POW-20?
The sorcery stat is a misprint I missed. It is Pedhetl, yet again.
And INT+POW - 20 is the MAXIMUM that your Pedhetl can reach. Thus, if
your INT is 18 and your POW is 21, you can someday achieve a Pedhetl
of 19, assuming your starting Pedhetl (3d6-15) was positive.
>Something is missing from the paragraph about speciality weapons
>like the 'Whispering Death'.
Sorry.
>What starting spells do you have? Do you memorise chosen spells,
>and if so is it INT related as in RQIII?
You have whatever starting spells you want, assuming your POW's high
enough. You do not memorize spells, nor do they subtract from your
INT. Instead, you learn a spell by sacrificing a point of POW, which
gives you the spell at a basic percentage. Then you must train,
research, or get experience in that spell to get it to a skill level
where you can cast it with a reasonable chance of success.
Joerg Baumgartner wonders:
>Do we know anything about the Galanini from Ralios except the few
>tidbits in "Dorastor Land of Doom", Elder Secrets and King of
>Sartar, and their god Ehilm? And what does a fire god have to do
with Hsunchen worship of horses?
Horses are the Beast of Fire. The Galanini date from the First Age,
before the God Learners had carefully explicated that the Hsunchen
were an early pre-pantheonic stage of development. Unaware that they
were supposed to only worship their own horse god, as a primitive
Hsunchen, the Galanini ignorantly worshiped related Sky gods as well.
>Did anyone else stumble about the phrase that Orlanth bathed in the
>Flame or Fire of Ehilm when proving his sincerity before Yelm in the
>Lightbringers Quest?
Ehilm, Worlath, and Humct are the old Ralios names for Yelm, Orlanth,
and Humakt. When the God Learners spread Theyalan civilization world
wide, the Theyalan names for these gods became the standards. Hence
Orlanth is named Orlanth practically everywhere that he is worshiped,
no matter what the native speaker's tongue.
However, superstitious types in Ralios, confused by the names, still
worship Ehilm & co., usually by bizarre ceremonies and false dogmas.
True worshipers of Yelm think of Ehilm followers much the same way as
the ancient Jews thought of the Samaritans, who followed the same
faith as the Jews, but did not accept the Prophets, just the Law, and
had weird primitive addenda to the Jewish way of life.
The reference to the Fire of Ehilm in Hell is the scribe's
unwillingness to alter the name of this ancient event. He recognizes
Yelm as the true sun god, but the oldest texts call Orlanth's purge
the Fire of Ehilm so, by gum, so will he.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk
Subject: Invisible Orlanth, Yara Aranis, bonus (?) ramblings.
Message-ID: <940119102...@carcass.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 19 Jan 94 10:22:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2828
> In the cult of Invisible Orlanth is Orlanth a prophet of the Invisible God
> or an (invisible) representative of the Red Goddess or merely the breath
> of the Invisible God? Or what?
I don't think IO is a Lunar/Healed cult at all: I reckon it's entirely
a Carmanian Thing.
Now, I did ask Greg about this at Conjunction, and he said, if I recall
correctly, and don't excessively paraphrase: What's this about Invisible
Orlanth, then? "Sounded good, so I put it in there. Right. But what are
these guys _on_? "They believe that Orlanth _is_ the Invisible God."
If anyone asked what the Lunar authorities thought of this, I forget the
answer entirely. I forget how sober any of us were...
One thing I've been wondering about is whether this is a unique mode of
worship, or if it has contempories and/or predecessors. For example, any
bets on whether 1st/2nd age Carmania had Yelm/IG worship combined in this
way? Specious analogies with Invictus Sol/Christ, anyone?
Actually, that reminds me of a piece of Lunar fiction I started to write
a while back: in regards which, does anyone have any datapoints on any of:
At least one city of the DH tripolis, or at a pinch, some other solar city
in Peloria which has been lunarised.
The White Moon cult. ("But what are these guys _on_?")
Lunar cult of justice. (No jokes from you unwashed barbarians, please.)
Pelorian solar military cults. (i.e., not Elmal/Yelmalio.)
The Dayzatar cult. Any subcults, particularly of a monastic bent.
My alibi for when Nick Brooke is found beaten up at Convulsion after that
Glasgow/Barbarians/Mr. Happy crack. It's true though, there are Primitive
sun-worshipping cults in these parts: their crude ceremonies focus on
totemic objects such as the UV SunBed, and the Cheap Package Holiday to
Lanzarote Tickets.
Other stuff I forget for the moment.
Even if no-one has any hard info, I'd be interested to hear what the state
of knowledge is: if I find out there's no data _whatsoever_ on something,
at least that means I can't be Gregged before I start. ;-)
Oh yeah, Yara Aranis. Well, if `Terrify Horse' is indeed a YA spell, this
makes it pretty dead-cert that this person's schtick is Darkness. After
all, `Fear', and `anti-Horse' both have this connotation, in RQ terms.
Though to be picky this could be a) Black/dying moon darkness;
Young Elemental darkness, or c) Darkness darkness. Don't laugh, there are
prolly different words for each of these in Dara Happan, lord preserve us.
But if YA arises from a _pre-lunar_ Pentan foe diety, c) seems the most
likely. In any case, contrive other spells and manifestations accordingly.
I humbly suggest.
Cheers,
Alex.
---------------------
From: ba...@nucdec.chem.sunysb.edu (Eric Bauge)
Subject: RQ-Con
Message-ID: <940119142...@nucdec.chem.sunysb.edu>
Date: 19 Jan 94 04:23:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2829
I am back from RQ-Con, and it was really great! David Cheng did a great job.
The organisation was very professional and we should all thank David for all
the work and energy he has poured into this event.
I think the best thing about this Con was meeting and playing with 150
outstanding role-players: the quality of a con is tightly tied of the quality
of the people who attend, and at RQ-con I met nothing but great people.
My personal highlight was "Bones of a nation": two GMs and a very
"live action role playing"-like flavour, lots of role playing. The 2 GMs *AND*
the other 6 players were very good role players. I enjoyed this event a lot.
An other favorite was "Fear and loathing at the SuperTroll": I had tons of
fun; the GM and the other players were a riot.
The "Greg Stafford on Heroquesting" and "cultural exchange with Nick Brooke"
were both quite illuminating.
Thanks again to David Cheng for bringing all these great people in one place.
Eric
---------------------
From: pears...@bt-web.bt.co.uk (pearse_w_r)
Subject: RQ/Tekumel Thanks
Message-ID: <940119142...@Sun.COM>
Date: 19 Jan 94 14:25:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2830
Loren Miller kindly answered my questions about RQ/Tekumel. Thanks -
I'll have another go and see how I get on.
I'd like to hear 'war stories' about the RQ/Tekumel campaign run by Sandy
Petersen...
Thanks again
Roger Pearse
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: R.A.I...@bra0801.wins.icl.co.uk
Subject: Greg's Heroquest Tidbits
Message-ID: <_372*_I=RA_S=Inglis_OU=bra0801_O=icl_PRMD=icl_ADMD=gold_400_C=GB__@MHS>
Date: 19 Jan 94 14:30:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2831
Shannon D. Appel wrote:
> To be a hero, you need to be close to your cult's ideals. For some
> cults, like Orlanth, this is very easy to do. It's a much harder task
> for others, like Humakti, however. Greg spoke of how close Humakti
> are to death, but mentioned that he had never seen a Humakt who was
> _really_ willing to undergo a HeroQuest that simply involved dying.
> Yet, what would be a better way to meet the ideals of your God?
The Humakt example has me very puzzled. I don't remember anywhere in the Myths
where Humakt dies. Surely his role is to deliver death to others rather than
on himself. I would agree that a Humakt should not be afraid of death. Can
anyone add anything more of what Greg said to help me understand what he was
trying to say.
Thank-you everyone for sharing your RQ-con experiences. Did anyone make a diary
of what happened in Home of the Bold that they would be willing to post? It
would be very interesting to hear the full story about what went on.
Ross
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ross Inglis ! Disclaimer: My opinions are my own,
R.A.I...@bra0801.wins.icl.co.uk ! I do not speak for my employer.
---------------------
From: fore...@mozart.srl.ford.com (Brian Forester)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 19 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.9401190...@mozart.srl.ford.com>
Date: 19 Jan 94 04:58:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2832
On Wed, 19 Jan 1994, RQ Digest Maintainer wrote:
>
> First of all, I think we all owe a mountain of thanks to David Cheng.
I would like to second the fact the David Cheng did a
wonderful job. From my point of view, the few problems that existed
were minor and quickly worked out.
> SUPPORT ON HEROQUESTS
>
> Support is very important on HeroQuests. Not only does it help you
> (as when a feather which denoted Orlanth's support revived him from
> death upon the LightBringer's Quest), but it also can help the
> community that provides the support. If you do well on a HeroQuest,
> the community that supports you will benefit. Likewise, if you do
> poorly, they will get the bad result as well. HeroQuests which
> actually benefit the community are much more powerful than HeroQuests
> meant to help only an individual. While a Hero may gain a +100% for
> himself in Sword from a Quest, for as long as he lives, he may be able
> to give an entire community a +10% forever and ever (at least as long
> as they retain some sacred item that he brought back). It was stated
> that only those people who help their communities are _True_ Heroes.
For the curious, the example that Greg used was if on a HeroQuest
"Joe" meets Humakti and ONLY gets his hands cut off. The sacred item
that Joe brings back is his severed hand holding a sword. So whenever
the community wants that +10 percent to sword they observe the rituals
with the sacred hand that Joe told them about. They will always remember Joe
whenever they enact that ritual.
>
> ENEMIES IN THE HERO PLANE
>
> Once you've HeroQuested a few times, you'll probably gain an enemy
> there, someone who knows you because you've opposed him in the past on
> the Hero Plane. After you've HeroQuested, you'll learn the
> unfortunate fact that you can be pulled into a HeroQuest through no
> choice of your own, due to your enemy waiting until you are weak, and
> then conducting certain rituals to create a HeroQuest which you are
> required to participate in.
>
Its quite possible that the enemy you have made is from the
mundane plane and is on his own heroquest.
> THE PHAROAH
>
> The final fate of the Pharoah was revealed. Apparently, he was
> begining a regular HeroQuest at the start of the MoLaD tournament.
> The Lunar Empire was, of course, aware of this HeroQuest, since it
> occurred regularly, and so Jar-eel was sent to ambush his spirit in
> the Hero Plane. She took the place of one of the Red Guards in the
> Hero Plane (the Pharoah had never known who the Red Guards were
> before, or why they were there), and easily defeated the Pharoah.
> Assumedly, Pharoah was then dragged off to the Lunar Hell where Sheng
> Solaris was hidden.
>
While the pharoah was definately defeated by the Jar-eel (the
Red Guard) it is not clear at all the he was drug off to a Lunar Hell.
I prefer that he escaped.
I don't remember all the details but the other theory that was
expounded (by Nick Brook, I think) is that one of the rituals that the
pharoah needs to participate is to go out into the fields and do the
fertility thing with an (earth?) priestess. Well, its Jar-eel who
manages to slip into the role of the earth priestess. Perhaps someone
else can fill in the details or perhaps correct me if I've misrembered.
>
> Home of the Bold: Glorious Incompetence and Magnificent Decadence
>
> No, I don't mean David Hall and Kevin Jacklyn, when I say incompetent.
> I mean MOB and the rest of us running the Lunar High Command. We did
> have some flashes of brilliance, such as the great poll tax/vote-rigging
> scam of MOB's and Susan's and mine.
>
> But we also had some real wonders, such as General Lergius Cassius
> ( played by = ? ) deciding to not buy the 300 weapons he had shipped
> to Boldhome. Where did he think they'd go? Back to Esrolia?
The Lunars had at least two chances to win near the end of the
game. The first one was if the lunar army commanders could of stomped
on the rebellion before it had a chance to get organized. The rebellion
had to centers of the focus when it started, Geo's Inn and the Humakti temple.
The Lunar army commanders could of defeated those separately. Instead they
apparently divided their forces and allowed a whole lunar regiment to
get slaughtered in the area of Geo's.
I think another possibility is if certain outlying elements (alda-chur?)
had marched onto Boldhome.
There was actually a third possibility that I hesitate to mention
because I don't want to spoil next years game.
> Also, twice, I had to spend 15 minutes to get an XO@#! Arrest Warrant.
> That felt perfect. ( At least I got to have Stafford arrested, and got to
> torture him in exchange. Later I got to have him assassinated, but there
> was no paper work for that. )
To me, the ironic thing is Montague (the Royal Librarian played by Greg Stafford)
managed to implicate loyal lunar citizens (i.e. King Blackmoor) for sedition.
I was very easy to arrest because by that time I was spending all of my time
around the Lunar Headquarters anyway. It seems that every Stormbull in town
was gunning for me.
As a final note, I am really looking for to reading the "Home of the Bold"
history when it gets printed. Should we send our stories to David Cheng?
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: RQ/Tekumel [monsters coming up]
Message-ID: <940119160...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 19 Jan 94 18:09:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2833
___________________________________________
MIL...@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller):
>> What do you do about monsters? I know the Tekumel Bestiary is in
>> print, so presumably it can be adapted with a bit of initiative.
>This question I'll leave mostly to Sandy. But when I used a monster
>very like the S'su in my Entelechy campaign (OK, I stole the S'su
>outright, and even called them the Enemies of Mankind) I just decided
>it was a tall humanoid with extra arms, a tough integument, and all
>sorts of weird hypnotic and/or mystical abilities. You pretty much
>have to reinvent monsters when running RQ/Tekumel.
I've received Sandy's Tekumel Monster descriptions:
underworld creatures 23k
outdoor monsters 9k
intelligent races 20k
This will be sent out under the same provisions
as the previous seven files.
--
Henk | Henk.La...@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
---------------------
From: ROBE...@delphi.intel.com (Roderick Robertson, SC1-5, x52936)
Subject: How I won the Battle of Boldhome
Message-ID: <355F73F7...@delphi.intel.com>
Date: 19 Jan 94 17:23:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2835
Greg Fried Writes:
>My favorite: table top minis! Now, not many will sympathize with me
>on this one, but then this was the first time I had EVER played
>miniatures wargaming! I really enjoyed it (maybe because my side's
>armies won each time!). I play one Tekumel battle, but the one that
>particularly caught my attention was the battle played with the rules
>being developed by Rory Robertson. Rory has converted RQ rules for
>table top battles, and has done a most impressive job. Rory posted his
>rules here many months ago, but has since polished and improved them.
>The result is a game with that "Gloranthan" feel, which is easy to
>learn and which plays fluidly and realistically. The beauty of it is
>that it forms a bridge between the ultra detail of RQ roleplay rules
>and the abstraction and large scale perspective of war games like
>RBWM/Dragon Pass and Nomad Gods. I think this has a real future. Go
>for it, Rory!
Thanks Greg, That's what I'm trying to do. When I get the rules
better polished, I'll offer them again to the list.
>My one idea for next time: If we decide on the Battle of Moonbroth for
>the LARP for next year's Con, how about this: use the LARP for all the
>pre-battle intrigue and diplomacy, then use Rory's RQ war game rules
>to play out the actual battle after all the diplomacy and intrigue is
>done?! What say you all?! Rory?
Aieeee! Let's see, that's a table approx. 10' on a side, if you go
for 12 figures per unit, times the number of units involved, and most
praxian riders don't exist in miniature (John Medway, how are your
sables coming, I forgot to ask). and 50 players all doing one unit...
*Shudder*
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Loren States:
>"I believe in three gods, the Invisible God who created the universe of
>all that is and all that could be, his daughter the Red Goddess, and her
>child Orlanth the Healed, who is her breath, subtle and invisible."
No No, I believe in ONE God, who created all things, visible and
invisible.
I've got the Emperor and Magister Magillus, one Patriarch, and a whole
slew of Bishops...
I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to meet Loren or Oliver (I did see
Oliver wandering around, just didn't get the chance to talk to him.
Never did see Loren).
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
And now, How I won the battle of Boldhome, and saved those silly
Sartarites.
I played Subatei of the Silken Tongue, Ambassador of the
Grazelands. Besides having to deal with Nick's silly Prince Tamertaine,
and MOB's Provost, I managed to save the revolution from ignominious
defeat, and get good terms for the Grazelands in the bargain. I was
surrounded by underlings with their own agendas (but then who isn't?),
and approached by all sorts of devious types who wanted my men. The
funny thing was that they didn't want the 3,000 men for campaigning in
the next few seasons, they wanted the 150 that I had with me. When the
revolution came, the Grazers sealed the Embassy and watched (and
called derision to the silly Elmalians and Yelmalians who joined the
Lunars). We were in just the right place to intercept the Ambassador
of Tarsh escorting the Prince and his Mistress away, and managed to
latch on to the Mistress, allowing her to re-join her Cavalry Trooper
lover, and denying her un-born babe to the Tarshites. In addition, the
Daughter of the Lunar Provost asked for, and recieved, Sanctuary among
our hardy band. Not bad so far, but the real fun was when we stormed
the Sartarite palace from the back door, and, finding it deserted,
raised our horse-tail banner over the ramparts. (The Sartatites in the
streets mistook it for the anciant Sartarite Banner, and were
heartened). We lost not a single man in the expedition, almost got
paid an exorbitant amount of money (Tamera Three-slice, our contact,
thought I meant 3 or 5 lunars PER PERSON for my men, instead of per
Unit. Would have been the Mercenary Contract of all times if she
hadn't talked to someone who put her right. Sigh)
All in all, a wonderful time (how many people managed to keep
their money away from the Imperial tax collector when she accosted
them?) was had by all. In addition to Dave Cheng and Dave Hall, thanks
has to go to Ken Rolston, Brandon B. and the other Dragonnewts, who
made sure that events happened in a friendly and fun manner, instead
of degenerating. They were running around like Walktapi with their
heads cut off, and probably regret having volunteered, but it wouldn't
have been the same without them.
Roderick Robertson
---------------------
From: AB...@GEEL.DWT.CSIRO.AU (Andrew Bean)
Subject: MOB in America
Message-ID: <9401200502...@GEEL.DWT.CSIRO.AU>
Date: 20 Jan 94 16:02:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2836
If anyone over there is going to see MOB before he returns to sunny
Australia could they please pass on the message that I would like to beg
him to pick up a copy of CODEX #1 for me and any other goodies that are
still floating around from RQ-Con and I will handsomely reimburse him and
be forever grateful on his return. Also ask him when he is going to run
HotB for us poor deprived Aussies :-).
If he can't be stuffed that is okay as we are not that well acquainted.
Always the optimist,
Andrew Bean
---------------------
From: C44...@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu (Newton Hughes)
Subject: color magic and herdmen
Message-ID: <940120031...@Sun.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 94 03:08:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2837
I thought the Borderlands books implied that all the Praxian tribes,
not only Morocanth, kept and ate herdmen. Outsiders visiting a nomad
camp would naturally mistake the herdmen for slaves. (If they visited
at lunchtime, they would naturally mistake the nomads for ogres.)
About Vormainian color magic: Jack Vance wrote a short story called
"Green Magic" where he refers to different kinds of magic by color. There's
some resemblance between Chun (the monster in Vance's "Loom of Darkness"
story from The Dying Earth) and one of the Vormainian gods whose name I
can't recall. In both beings eyeballs and hooks feature prominently, at
least.
---------------------
From: gad...@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois)
Subject: Home of the Bold II booklets
Message-ID: <199401200400...@CLIO.MCC.COM>
Date: 19 Jan 94 16:00:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2838
I will be putting together a book of stories written by the folks who
played in HotB II. If you played in the game and would like to get your
story in the book, please get them to me by February 15.
I am looking for good stories written "in character" -- either first
person by the character or referring to the character in the third
person as if he/she were real. The stories should be readable not only
by other players in the game who are just trying to find out what was
really going on but also by anyone interested in Glorantha.
Please try to keep the stories under five pages or so unless you can
come up with something insanely great. I would also like to see art as
well as collections of very pieces short ala Notes from Nochet or
quotable quotes.
If you want to pre-order a copy, let me know. Assuming the booklet
turns out to be 60 pages, cost+postage will probably be about US$6.00 in
North America, US$7.00 overseas.
--David Gadbois
---------------------
From: prha...@aol.com
Subject: RQ Con - Ravings
Message-ID: <940119230...@aol.com>
Date: 20 Jan 94 04:01:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2839
Report on RQ Con.
LOADS OF FUN!
If you missed this one, be there next year (in California).
What was so much fun?
#1. Accessibility! Greg Stafford (and the puppet master / Nick Brooke), Sandy
Peterson, Michael O'Brien, Dave Gadbois, David Hall, Kevin Jacklin, et al
were there to be spoken to. Not a stuffed shirt in the lot, outstanding gents
one and all. Not enough self importance among them to make a good politician.
#2. Home of the Bold. This was a gas! It frustrated me for the first two or
three hours but then things really took off. There should be some tee shirts
making the rounds in Sartar with the say
ing "I was at Boldhome when we kicked the Lunars' out."
#3. The Glorantha Lore auction (Greg answered any Glorantha question for a
buck).
This was way more fun than it should have been. Lots of humor, groans and
knowing nods. I wish I had taken notes. ... I'll leave it to others to file a
mo˙re complete report. This is pure emotion, but no less valid than any in depth
critique.
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
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Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 20 Jan 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <9400207591....@SMTPLink.Barnard.Columbia.edu>
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X-RQ-ID: 2854
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---------------------
Ross
---------------------
---------------------
---------------------
Greg Fried Writes:
Roderick Robertson
---------------------
---------------------
---------------------
--David Gadbois
---------------------
---------------------
X-RQ-ID: Extro
RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)
---------------------
From: ru...@ace.com (Rune)
Subject: HOTB and Trollball Wimps!
Message-ID: <9401192000.0.UUL1.3#25...@ace.com>
Date: 20 Jan 94 01:00:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2840
johnjmedway wrote:
>...when I say incompetent.I mean MOB and the rest of us running the
> Lunar High Command. ... But we also had some real wonders, such as
> General Lergius Cassius ( played by = ? ) deciding to not buy the 300
> weapons he had shipped to Boldhome. Where did he think they'd go? Back
> to Esrolia?
Very interesting...as the Emperor's personal representative I was
going to use the Imperial Warrant to have you all removed from power and
appoint General Cassius as governor. Guess I should have appointed
myself, instead! 8^>}
By the way, what happened to everybody for Trollball? Scared off,
just because it was held on Valind's Glacier? Wimps! No true Uz would
let a little bone-freezing cold scare her off. Even if our weapons *did*
all freeze and shred... 8^>}
Did anyone else get video of the mighty battle? My tape cut out
fairly early, and I'd like to document my glorious victory. 8^>}
Yow!
-->Pete
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Maranci Malden, Massachusetts
pe...@slough.mit.edu or ru...@trystero.com or ru...@ace.com
Captain, Bozztown Bashers -- Champion Trollball team at RQ Con '94!
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Morocanth eating humans
Message-ID: <H.ea.35T...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 20 Jan 94 11:08:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2841
Allan Henderson in X-RQ-ID: 2790
>Subject: morokanth don't eat people
>I am afraid that I must disagree with Mr Peterson on the issue of
>morokanth eating people, he says
>> it's not "cannibalism" to eat a
>> human if you're a morokanth -- a social faux pas at worst.
>I believe that the Waha covenant will apply more stronly than breaking
>it to be considered only a faux pas. In Borderlands there is a
>description that morokanth put a herdman than may be a person out to
>live on grass for a week if they thrive then they eat them, if they
>don't then presumably they convert then to herd men and then eat them.
>The important point is that they change them to herd men first.
>The borderland write up of morocanth is very good.
I too think that to eat a sentient Praxian is more than a faux pas for any
Morokanth. Note that I say Praxian, i.e. a sentient member of Waha's
covenant. Non-Praxians are fair game, in all probability also Sun Domers,
Pavisites, Pol Joni and Oasis people (although the latter are more useful
as life herd members, i.e. they can be "milked"). Non-Praxians first have
to prove (individually) that they qualify as human and not as herd beast,
from a Morokanth point of view.
>The praxian nomads know about herd men, but although they know the
>difference between herd men and humans it is still a good excuse to
>raid another tribe. I doubt if any initiate or above in Waha would even
>consider a herd man to be human, certainly no closer to human than an
>ogre is.
In Pavis "mock-pork" (i.e. herd man) is one of the common meats in the
market. One wonders: do the Sartarite-, Sun Dome- or Lunar-descended
citizens know or care?
>Ogres, herd men, humans they all look the same but they come in three
>distinct flavours (so to speak), only one of which is edible :
>ogres being vile chaos creatures are not fit to eat
>humans are forbidden to eat
>herd men, god actively encourages the eating of these stupid creatures
With humans defined as those people living on the herds (either by herding
or hunting). Those humans who eat grain ("just another word for grass,
really") show clearly that they are herd men an may be eaten - again,
from a Morokanth point of view.
>> I find highly colorful nonhumans far more interesting than the
>> usual D&Dish "humans in a furry suit".
>I agree, but breaking the convenant of Waha, and eating people turns
>morocanth into "monsters, but without the thumbs". Having them as an
>alien tribe with morals and strict social structures allow them to be
>feared through ignorance yet respected for their independant culture
>by the PCs.
Not more than the cannibal cult. If you ask any non-Morokanth Praxian,
he or she will happily agree that the Morokanth are monsters, and probably
add the story how they cheated when Waha let the peoples and herds draw
lots.
How do the pygmie tribes of Prax and the normal-sized humans (I know that
Bison and Rhino riders tend to be larger than Sables or Zebras, but the
difference is neglectible compared to Impala or Bolo Lizard riders) interact
and interbreed? I mean, do slave female humans among the Impala get
impregnated, and counted as tribe members afterwards? and vice versa with
slave female pygmies among the human tribes? And can the "sodomy" between
humans and herd men produce offspring, and will that be man or beast?
Geoff Gunner in X-RQ-ID: 2791
>Doesn't the taboo against cannabalism stem from the ability to emote with what
>you're eating ? With humans there's also the problems of disease transmission,
>but between species this shouldn't be a problem.
>SO the question boils down to: Does species 'A' have the cultural makeup to
>empathise, and feel uncomfortable, about eating 'B' ?
>Thus - Trolls will eat everything.
> Dwarves eat ritual enemies 'Elves - not life as we know it'
> Morocanth - I can see them in private eating other races, but as they
> make a bigger effort to fit in than Trolls, public acts
> of sentinent consumption are probably rare. But really they
> don't give a damn. Just keeping up with the Jones's.
In the Biturian Varosh tory about the visit of the Paps the Morokanth are
numbered among the races of darkness. The way I understand this, eating
sentients is a darkness trait, most blatantly expressed in trolls and giants.
The ogres seem to be men of darkness in this respect, too, but then the chaos
era was known as darkness.
Yum. (oops)
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: guy....@chrysalis.org
Subject: MOSTALI & MAL
Message-ID: <940120101...@chrysalis.org>
Date: 20 Jan 94 09:15:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2842
Has anyone noticed the strange similarities between the religions of the Dwarfs
and the Malkioni?
1) Both revere a god who does not personally interact with them (Mostal for the
Dwarfs, the Invisible God for the Brithini and other Malkioni)
2) Both use sorcery rather than divine/rune magic
3) Both believe (apparently with some validity) that they will not age or die
naturally if they follow the tenets of their faith exactly, and do not question
the validity of their dogma.
4) Both practice a caste system that, in its purest forms (e.g.the Brithini,
Octamonic Dwarfs) is absolutely inflexible.
5) Both cultures are isolationist (perfectly true of the Brithini, but not so
true of the Hrestoli; true of most Dwarf sects)
6) Both are plagued with heresies and internal schisms.
My hypothesis is that the Invisible God and Mostal the Maker are one and the
same being, worshipped in similar fashion by two different cultures. Anyone out
there agree? Disagree?
Guy Hoyle (aka Mulborth)
guy....@chrysalis.org
PS I'm going to RQ-CON II! Try and stop me THIS time! Hahahahaaaa!
---------------------
From: apb...@aol.com
Subject: Dwarf Food
Message-ID: <940120122...@aol.com>
Date: 20 Jan 94 17:24:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2843
>Dwarfs & Elves: true, these guys eat one another (and trolls, too),
>but only at special ceremonies or else when it is unbeknownst to them
>(dwarf canned food). I wouldn't call them cannibals despite this
>obscure secret ritual.
Still spreading viscious romors about the Dwarves? Canned dwarf food is _NOT_
precessed humans, dwarves, and elves. It is merely resembles that in form,
but is actually much lik
e spam, made from various animals.
-Dwarven Public Relations Department
---------------------
From: eco...@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann)
Subject: Lunar paperwork cost boldhome
Message-ID: <940120175...@cabell.vcu.edu>
Date: 20 Jan 94 17:58:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2844
Alas, I must concur with John Medway and others woh say that the
bumbling lunar bureaucracy caused the loss of Boldhome.
I playe d Harvar Ironfist, the Duke of Far Point (raised to Prince of
the FAr Place during the game).
After hearing a rumor that my firm allies, the lunars, were having or
anticipating some trouble with the woad boys in the next few days, I
arranged for myt cousin, who commmanded a large army unit in the
south, to send about 300 of his men on "extended patrol" toward
Boldhome, where they might be useful if things started getting bad.
Well, to no ones surprise, things did start getting bad. The city was
sealed, and martial law declared by the Lunars. In conversatoin with
Gordius the Provost, I offered to bring those loyal men into the city
to help calm things down. Gordius said that sounded fine, but he
wanted to run it past his generals first.
With rioting in the streets, I naturally felt that I had to take my
forces to the Sun Temple, where I could no go wandering off to llook
for a lunar general's permission. Time passed, the REbellion broke
out in earnest in the city, and precious moments flew by. (Time was
accellerated in the game, so a whole week could pass in the evening
of the game.) Finally a general happend to pass the Temple of the
Sun, and I got permission to have the gates opened for the 300 LUNAR
TROOPS outside.
Lo an dbehold, as the gates opened and the unit started marching in,
skybulls and tribesmen swarmed out of the hills to attack the gate,
and the city had to be sealed up again before the troops could enter.
If they had been let in earlier, I doubt that the bad guys would have
been out there.
The reall high point of th eevening for me was when Hwalthippus,
Lunar Guardian of the Flame of Sartar, offered me a tour of the Flame
Altar in exchange for the paltry sum of 2 "super" Lunar coins. (HE
apparantly had some bad gambling debts outstanding.)
Hwalthippus saw me as a strong ally, sonce I had been seeking his
approval and sponsorship into Yelm and Moonson Imperator, so I
suppose he thought I was a good choice for a tour. What he didn't
know is that Harvar has the blood of Sartar through a distant
realtive, and also believed that an ancient prophecy suggestted that
Harvar might be able to unify Sartar personally.
Soooo.....With just me & him up there, & my thanes guarding the only
entrance, I tried to invoke the Flame. It didn't quite work, but it
worked better than for Terertain, by most accounts, and Hwalthippus
tried to Sunspear me, but it didn't kill me. Lunar soldiers arrived &
carted me off before the Provost....
...who stood up from his conference with the Royal Librarian and a
Lunar Scribe (who was in my employ) and congratulated me on the good
news that the librarian had found evidence that I was indeed of Solar
descent, and that I could therefore look forward to joining th ecult
of Yelm. Provost Gordius shook my hand, congrats all around, and then
I startyed telling everyone who would listen just how important it
was that Hwalthippus be brought here ASAP.
Once Hwalthippus arrived at the Lunar HQ< I mentioned how unfortuante
it would be if the Provost found out that he was taking money to let
sons of Sartar up on to the Flame Altar, and from there things
smoothed right out.
Various Lunar military types camse by, and were uniformly surprised
to see me out on the balcony at my ease, rather than in the jail.
INfact, while waiting for everything to smooth out, I concluded my
fealty arrangements with the Ambassoador of the King of Tarsh, who
apparantly hadn't heard anything of my stunt, or at least wasn't
worried about it!
That was the most fun for me. The interesting side effect of the
attempt was that suddenly, I had much higher status in the rebel
community, which needed to figure out what I was up to. The getting
released part really confused them.
Gret fun for the whoel weekend. My congratulations to DAvid Cheng et
al. and the whole Home of the Bold bunch. I look forward to Hthe West
was One, which I hope will be lacking in any particular bias one way
or another. It seemed pretty clear that HotB was intended for the
Lunars to lose. It makes a better story that way, after all.
Boy, sorry for all the typoes. My hands are freezing & I'm in a
hurry!
M>|<
---------------------
From: eo...@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
Subject: General Waffle
Message-ID: <940120182...@raesp-farn.mod.uk>
Date: 20 Jan 94 18:21:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2845
RQ Con sounds really good. Shall sulk for ages now. Want one in the UK. Bah.
bit of Trivia - Sandy exclaims 'by gum'. Now this is the stereotypical
exclamation of the Yorkshireman - is there something in Sandy's history that
he's hiding ? To his aquaintances - does he wear a flat cloth cap and braces,
and favour black pudding ? Dead giveaways. The truth will out.
Anyone going to write up the sum body of knowledge imparted from the Con ?
All those little secrets revealed in the Lore Auction ... drool drool.
Geoff.
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <940120182...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 20 Jan 94 06:26:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2846
Here's a tidbit for everyone to use. In Chaosium-published Gloranthan
documents, we always followed this format -- a "lunar" is a coin. A
"Lunar" is a person or an adjective.
Alex (last name?) opines:
>I don't think IO [Invisible Orlanth] is a Lunar/Healed cult at all:
>I reckon it's entirely a Carmanian Thing.
I concur. It's not unique to Carmania, though. There are similar
cults in Maniria and Ralios (the Aeolian Heresy). It probably crops
up wherever Orlanth and Malkioni live nearby, with slight differences
between various groups. But I agree that it's certainly not a Lunar
thing. Let's not forget that the Malkioni are as anti-Lunar as they
can be, considering that they lack a common border. In fact, the
Malkioni and the Orlanthi are probably the two most anti-Lunar
religions in Glorantha, so Invisible Orlanth is not particularly
pro-Lunar.
>Any bets on whether 1st/2nd age Carmania had Yelm/IG worship
>combined in this way?
There was no 1st age Carmania. They were refugees from Arkat's Dark
Empire (I think) who came west to escape the God Learners and set up
their empire atop the hapless natives. The Dara Happans couldn't stop
'em because they were busy with the EWF.
Alex goes on to enquire:
>At least one city of the DH tripolis, or at a pinch, some other
>solar city in Peloria which has been lunarised.
All the cities in Peloria are more or less lunarized. It's the Way.
>The White Moon cult. ("But what are these guys _on_?")
The White Moon, I believe, is more of a belief than a cult. I don't
think that anyone is getting magic power from worshiping her. (I
personalize the White Moon as "she" because the other two moons are
female. I don't swear to be correct.)
>Lunar cult of justice. (No jokes from you unwashed barbarians,
>please.)
I don't think the Lunars have a cult of justice. Or if they do, it is
Yelm. Remember that they are technically the god of freedom, and
whatever previous customs and social mores existed in an area are
supposed to remain after Lunar domination, though no doubt
liberalized through the Goddess's influence (no more automatic death
sentences for chaotics, frex).
>Pelorian solar military cults. (i.e., not Elmal/Yelmalio.)
Yelmalio, of course, is not a central Pelorian cult, but is only a
fringe religion. Okay, here's my list of Pelorian non-Lunar military
sects: Lodril (very popular), Polaris (=Pole Star), Golden Bow
(associated with the Pent nomads, but certainly not discarded by Dara
Happans), Yelm (The Warrior is one of Yelm's aspects), Yelorna
(specialized). I imagine that most Pelorian warriors worship Dendara
or Lodril. The Dara Happans are not a militarily-oriented people, and
war gods are not as prominent in their pantheon as among the barbaric
Orlanthi.
>The Dayzatar cult. Any subcults, particularly of a monastic bent.
I have a complete writeup of Dayzatar (buried in a hard-to-get
place). I don't think he has any subcults -- heroes and spirits that
want to get associated with the distant uncaring sky do so by contact
with Ourania, his more-accessible spouse.
The entire Dayzatar cult is "particularly of a monastic bent". The
basic requirement for membership is that you must have reached Chief
Priest status in an acceptable solar cult and be ready for
retirement. You retain all your former magic and can pray to regain
its use, should you cast it, but you cannot sacrifice for any more
non-Dayzatar magic. You are in effect no longer a member of your
former cult(s). Dayzatar has no "associate" cults in the normal sense
of the word -- any cult whose Chief Priests can join Dayzatar are
considered to be "associates".
Dayzatar teaches three specialty spells (I may have the names
slightly off, here, but the effects are proper): Summon Shanasse,
Dismiss Clouds, and Compell Truth. These spells are stackable and are
remarkably hard to cast -- your chances of success are equal to the
number of points you are trying to cast. Hence, if you are trying to
cast a 10-point Summon Shanasse, you have a 10% chance of success.
Plus your magic bonus, if any.
Dayzatar isn't really a PC-type cult.
re: Humakt/Death
Just to throw more fuel on the fire, I know that Greg is a
Humakt-basher from way back and likes to annoy the cult's adherents
in play.
Newton Hughes points out:
>I thought the Borderlands books implied that all the Praxian tribes,
>not only Morocanth, kept and ate herdmen. Outsiders visiting a
>nomad camp would naturally mistake the herdmen for slaves.
This is technically true. However, think of the practical problems
involved -- herd men will enormously slow down your herd and probably
thrive on different plants than the rest of the beasts (I know they
can eat plains fodder, but impalas and bison eat different plants --
why should herd men be different?). It's obvious to me that most
human tribes don't keep herd men around any longer than they have to.
And I still adhere to my belief that most Praxians find eating herd
men about as appetizing as most Texans seem to regard sushi. (Not to
mention the fact that it's entirely possible that a given herd man
used to be a "real" person -- maybe your mother!)
---------------------
From: f6...@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Correction
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.4.7...@quads.uchicago.edu>
Date: 20 Jan 94 18:58:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2847
Greg Fried here.
I have an error to confess, just to set the record straight. In the minis
events, my side won only once (our Yelmalions defeated a clan of
cattle-thieving Orlanthi and broke our way through to their lands to exact
retribution). The Tekumel battle was technically a draw -- our side was
winning unti a bunch of S'su showed up and attacked my legions by surprise.
We took care of them quite handily, but the enemy took advantage of the
situation. I did get the dart-throw prize though, since as a novice, I had
done respectably.
Rory,
Didn't mean to frighten you with my idea of conducting the battle of
Moonbroth! If such a thing WERE to be done, I would say that only the
commanders of the forces (say, 4 max per side) should participate, and
I'd make each figure represent 10 (or more) combatants. THe battle
would take place after the LARP (except that maybe some role-playing
would still happen with those traitorous Sable-riders! -- who knows
which direction their line would end up facing!). If the LARP is to
be How the West Was Won (One?), maybe that too would be conducive to a
final battle at the end....? Organizers?
GF out.
---------------------
From: n844...@henson.cc.wwu.edu (Iza Young)
Subject: RQ/Tekumel
Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.9401201...@henson.cc.wwu.edu>
Date: 20 Jan 94 04:14:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2848
I just logged on to this digest service, so I seem to have missed some
vital information about RQ/Tekumel, like where and how to get a copy. I
noticed that W. R. Pearse asked this very question along with others
(printed yesterday), and I saw some very timely answers, but nothing on
how to get hold of it. I assume it's here on the net and not for sale in
print. Tell me if I'm wrong or right.
On a similar note, it sounds as if rules for Vormainian Color Magic are
available in much the same fashion. Is this true, and how may I get these?
---------------------
From: wat...@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Shield cover
Message-ID: <9401201759.AA18586@condor>
Date: 20 Jan 94 17:59:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2849
_________
Sandy sez:
>The players in my own campaign soon learned to hold their shields in
>front of their vitals as extra armor whenever archers opposed them.
Heh, this reminds me of the notorious Troll Shield Dance which involves
holding up, not one, but two kite shields while approaching Dwarven defences.
This covers 6 out of 7 locations: just listen to those Mostali minds overload
as they try to track the exposed location with their pesky repeatin' bloody
crossbows... B^)
By convention I allow shield-cover to protect even against missile crits (as
if the shot had been "parried": ie. some of the damage gets through but a lot
of it is soaked up by the shield AP) however I guess others might dispute this.
___
CW.
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: RQ-Con; warfare
Message-ID: <1994012022...@radiomail.net>
Date: 20 Jan 94 22:10:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2850
First, thanks very much to David Cheng and everyone else involved in
setting up RQ-Con!
I forgot to mention the Dart Competition. They spread a bunch of game stuff
on the floor, and people who had earned throws (I believe by being the
"winner" of a scenario) got to toss a dart from the balcony above. Whatever
their dart hit, they won. The crowd groaned if you hit "Daughters of
Darkness," or oohed and ahed if you hit "King of Sartar."
>From: j...@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
>Home of the Bold: Glorious Incompetence and Magnificent Decadence
>
>No, I don't mean David Hall and Kevin Jacklyn, when I say incompetent.
>I mean MOB and the rest of us running the Lunar High Command. We did
>have some flashes of brilliance, such as the great poll tax/vote-rigging
>scam of MOB's and Susan's and mine.
Hey, give me some of the credit for the Lunar High Command incompetence.
While I was pretty good at forcing Orlanth sympathizers to use up their
teleports, I was pretty clueless as to what was going on.
Sandy Petersen said
>Anyway, the point is that standing up and fighting "like a man" is
>not a primitive hold-over, but an invention which is apparently none
>too easy to figure out.
Right -- "primitive" people tend to engage in some sort of ritualized
boasting ("saber-rattling") to prevent a fight (this is well-handled in the
movie "Quest for Fire").
This is probably closer to the idea of counting coup -- both are ways to
prove your manhood without too much danger of anyone getting killed. (In a
PenDragon Pass game, counting coup should gain you just as much
Status/Glory as defeating an enemy.)
>Keegan points out that other
>styles of warfare, like the nomad "shoot 'em and run away" can be
>effective against the Western style.
Which is back to my problem of overly-effective nomad PCs.
>The question is: what defeats horse archers? Historically, I believe
>the answer is fortifications and light or medium cavalry.
Forts will do it, but are hardly an option for the caravan under attack.
Cavalry (in my game) frequently gets hit with enough arrows to stop it
(most mounts aren't armored).
Did anyone else fail to get part 1 of the 20 Jan Daily?
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: MIL...@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
Subject: RQ/Tekumel comments
Message-ID: <01H7WYIZ5...@wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: 20 Jan 94 13:29:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2851
Hi Everybody,
Hmmm. I hope it's obvious that I was shooting from the hip with my
RQ/Tekumel rules advice, having neither the RQ3 rules nor the
RQ/Tekumel rules before me as I wrote. Anyway, I think it was mildly
amusing to compare and contrast my take on the rules with Sandy's.
I figgered out the locations of the spots in Carmania, so you don't
have to tell me to look at the 3rd map of the Lunar Empire, but I'm
still trying to figger out how Carmanian society works, and which of
the sources on Carmanian religion is correct---do folks worship cults
as implied by the Genertela player's book or are they Malkioni as
implied by the GM's book?
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller internet: MIL...@wharton.upenn.edu
"Enough sound bites. Let's get to work." -- Ross Perot sound bite
---------------------
From: malco...@aol.com
Subject: Re: HotB Lunar Incompetence
Message-ID: <940120214...@aol.com>
Date: 21 Jan 94 02:40:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2852
Brian Forester reports:
>The Lunar army commanders could of defeated those separately. >Instead they
apparently divided their forces and allowed a whole >lunar regiment to get
slaughtered in the area of Geo's.
Part of the problem was the stupidity of Lunar officer Aleham Ratsbane. He
believed the false claims of one Morak Moran that he was an agent of the
Emperor, and that all units were ordered to report back to the barracks.
Aleham stupidly withdrew with the entire 2nd Furthest Foot leaving General
Lergius and his troops to be wiped out by the enraged mob! Now that's Lunar
incompetence.
Malcolm Serabian aka Aleham Ratsbane......
---------------------
From: gad...@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois)
Subject: Reaching Moon Megacorp North America Ltd. products
Message-ID: <199401210321...@CLIO.MCC.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 94 15:21:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2853
I will be placing an order with David Hall for copies of Tales of the
Reaching Moon number five and the Report on Boldhome I (from the run of
Home of the Bold at Convulsion I.) If any RQ fans in North America
would like a copy of either, please let me know in the next few days.
Pricing on Tales #5 is US$4.00 ppd., and the Report is US$10.00 ppd.
The shipment will be coming by surface mail, so expect a couple of
months wait for their arrival. I also still have copies of The
Collected Griselda (US$12.00 ppd.) and Tales #10 (US$5.00 ppd, $4.00
with subscription.) For folks looking for copies of Tales #9, Chaosium
Inc. and stores that order through Berkeley Games North still have some
copies left.
--David Gadbois
---------------------
From: gad...@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 20 Jan 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <199401210331...@CLIO.MCC.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 94 15:31:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2855
From: gad...@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois)
Date: 19 Jan 94 16:00:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2838
[...] I am looking for good stories written "in character" [... and
...] I would also like to see art as well as collections of very
pieces short ala Notes from Nochet or quotable quotes. [...]
Here I am following up on my own message. As per Medway's suggestion, I
will also take copies of good photographs of the events. No guarantees
that they will appear in the book (I am not sure if I can pull off the
necessary de-colorization and half-toning), but I will at least scan
them in and put them up for anonymous FTP.
--David Gadbois
---------------------
From: ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: archery, horses, RQ Con, cannibalism, and boy, is this a weird list
Message-ID: <1994012104...@panix.com>
Date: 20 Jan 94 18:39:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2856
san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) writes:
>BOWSLOW. This spell's name must be altered to SLOWDART. In my
>opinion.
Brilliant.
>The question is: what defeats horse archers? Historically, I believe
>the answer is fortifications and light or medium cavalry.
Actually, the best defense against horse archers is living in hilly
terrain. :-)
>Humans: rare, except Cannibal Cult and bad guys. It's clearly
>considered morally reprehensible for humans to eat humans, and my big
>book on the subject of anthropophagy points out that societies which
>permit it eventually degenerate (at first, they may only eat their
>own dead, or the hearts of honored enemies or something defensible,
>but ultimately they end up just plain cannibals).
Sandy, can you name a non-cannibal culture that hasn't degenerated?
It is in the nature of human cultures to degenerate.
I'll join the chorus praising David Cheng, although my enjoyment of the
con was damaged by being simultaneously sick and injured (not to mention
spending six hours trying to get off of Manhattan Island).
=========================================================================
Belief in the precognitive powers of an Asian pastry is really no
wackier than belief in ESP, subluxation, or astrology, but you just
don't hear anyone preaching Scientific Cookie-ism. --Penn and Teller
Carl Fink ca...@panix.com CARL.FINK (GEnie)
---------------------
From: ap...@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon Appel)
Subject: RQ-Con Report IV: Wisdom of the Grey Sages
Message-ID: <1994012105...@erzo.berkeley.edu>
Date: 20 Jan 94 13:46:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2857
Well, I meant to get this done yesterday, but hey... Here's the
fourth of my RQ-Con reports. It details the Gloranthan Lore Auction.
Basically, Greg Stafford (and Sandy Peterson) sat up at the front of
the room, and David Cheng ran around the room and collected money, $1
a question. This article itemizes about 1/2 of the questions and
answers from the seminar (the ones that I was fast enough to write
down). None of the quoted questions or answers are guaranteed to be
utterly correct, but they're close.
ARACHNE SOLARE
Q: "Is Gloriana Weaver (sp?) from Wyrm's Footnotes #4 Arachne Solare?"
A: "Yes. Probably."
Q: "Can Arachne Solare receive cult worship and do anything about it?"
A: "No. You can enter into a personal relationship, but there is no
cult."
Q: "Is Glorantha a temple to Arachne Solare?"
A: "In the sense that a man's body is the temple to his spirit, yes."
ARGRATH
Q: "Did Argrath gain at least part of his powers from Pharoah after
Jar-eel killed him?"
A: "I didn't know that yet."
BRITHINI
Q: "Are the natives of Godforgotten Brithini or mortals who use
Brithini government?"
A: "There are Brithini there."
Q: "Do Brithini & Mostali really have an immortal soul or do they
dissipate upon death?"
A: "They dissipate."
Q: "Where did Zabor put Brithos and will it return?"
A: "The current theory is that the removal of Brithos was an accident.
No one knows where it went. It's not on the hero plane or in Solace
or elsewhere."
CHARG
Q: "When the ban falls in Charg, what comes out?"
A: "I don't know."
DRAGONNEWTS
Q: "You once said that a Dragonnewt stated that something important
would happen in 823,543 ST (7^7 ST). Is this still true?"
A: "Yes."
Q: "What was the Dragonnewt's Dream?"
A: "I don't know."
EURMAL
Q: "Does Orlanth maintain the sanctity of the trickster to have a tool
of change?"
A: "No. It's not his intent. He's adapting to the fact that Eurmal
is always there."
GEO
Q: "Was Geo a Soup-er Hero?"
A: "Clearly, and his high priests are Room Lords."
GOD LEARNERS
Q: "What is the God Learner's Secret?"
A: "Give that man his dollar back."
Q: "What was the relationaship between EWF and the God Learners?"
A: "Hostility. There were several other empires in the second age
too. That was the Age of Empires."
HILL OF GOLD
Q: "Who is the Goddess of the Hill of Gold?"
A: "Inora."
ICE
Q: "What is ice in Glorantha." (this question was particularly in
relation to the ice rune.)
A: "It's frozen water. We sort of wish we hadn't published that
rune."
LIGHTBRINGERS
Q: "Who is flesh man?"
A: "Flesh Man is Everyman. Anyone who is mortal can sit in that
place."
Q: "Who and what is the nature of Ginna Jar?"
A: "Ginna Jar is EITHER another blank space on the Council that might
change (for example, it might be a Humakt or a Babeester Gor, as
needed), OR the collective spirit of the members of the Lightbringer's
ring."
MALKIONI
Q: "What really happens to Malkioni souls?"
A: "Their Solace is not directly accessible via HeroQuest means."
PAVIS
Q: "The salt mine in Pavis, is that the devil's tears?"
A: "It could be... if it looks like something that fits, it probably
should."
Q: "What is the secret of the Puzzle Canal? It's overall significance?"
A: "If you sail into it, and sail about right, and come back out in a
certain manner, you're in the hero plane."
Q: "Was Pinchining (of the Cradle Scenerio) a Gold Wheel Dancer?"
A: "yes."
PHARAOH
Q: "Was the Pharaoh a God Learner refuge?"
A: "I don't know. We know that the Pharoah fell out of the future."
Q: "Is there a tie between Delecti's ability to reincarnate in corpses
and the Pharaoh's ability to reincarnate in live bodies?"
A: "No."
THE RED EMPEROR
Q: "Is it possible for normal people to become the Red Emperor?"
A: "Yes. After Sheng Solaris, definitely. Before Sheng Solaris, he
was definitely always the same person. A bunch of people initially
created the Red Emperor, but many of them were killed by Sheng
Solaris, so he changed. Perhaps you just sit at the Council and
contribute to the Red Emperor in that way?"
THE SEVEN MOTHERS
Q: "Could you say a little on She Who Waits."
A: "You'll have to wait; I'm not sure."
SNOW TROLLS
Q: "Are snow trolls associated with darkness or cold?"
A: "Both."
TIME
Q: "Does time have a consciousness. Is it an entity?"
A: "No."
TIME TRAVEL
Q: "Is time travel possible?"
A: "No, except that you may fall out of time accidently."
Q: "What about the Hidden Castles? Couldn't you time travel with
those?"
A: "Yes, but you don't know when you're getting out."
THE SIX QUESTIONS
Q: "What are the six questions that you won't answer?"
A: "That's one of them."
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: MOSTALI & MAL
Message-ID: <940121081...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 21 Jan 94 10:13:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2858
In rq-list you write:
>Has anyone noticed the strange similarities between the religions of the Dwarfs
>and the Malkioni?
>
>My hypothesis is that the Invisible God and Mostal the Maker are one and the
>same being, worshipped in similar fashion by two different cultures. Anyone out
>there agree? Disagree?
>
So if the two only differ in name, who cares?
Both are perfect manifestations of the Stasis Rune.
Stasis == Law
--
Henk | Henk.La...@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
---------------------
X-RQ-ID: Extro
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Horses, Fire, and Deity Ravings
Message-ID: <H.ea._Ol...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 21 Jan 94 11:24:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2859
Sandy Petersen X-RQ-ID: 2834
>anti-archery spell:
>How about a ranged Ignite on the bowstrings? It would put the kibosh
>on firing any arrows. Even if the fire was put out right away, the
>string would be weakened and probably snap.
Same problem as usual: How do you coordinate spell attacks to avoid
multiple action against some of the attackers and letting others come
unmolested?
>Joerg Baumgartner sez:
>>The alarm function is more easily obtained by a permanent market
>>spell.
>A market spell is a bad way to alarm your walls. For one thing, it
>takes a LOT of Create Market spells to cover an entire town. In
>addition, if any of your soldiers draw their swords (or bows) to
>attack an incoming foe, they're toast (attacked by the spell, just
>like an enemy).
Sorry, wrong edition of RQ - I happened to have read Biturian Varosh's
description of the troll and morokanth attack on the Paps recently. In
it, Biturian first casts his Market sell for the ceremony. Then, when the
forces of darness attack, he grabs his quarterstaff and fights back the
trolls, without getting any ill effect from his spell. Nor do the temple
guards.
>Joerg Baumgartner wonders:
>>Do we know anything about the Galanini from Ralios except the few
>>tidbits in "Dorastor Land of Doom", Elder Secrets and King of
>>Sartar, and their god Ehilm? And what does a fire god have to do
>with Hsunchen worship of horses?
>Horses are the Beast of Fire. The Galanini date from the First Age,
^^^
I don't believe that. They are beasts of fire, yes, and as such related
to birds, griffons and other celestial animals, but not particularly
associated with fire.
>before the God Learners had carefully explicated that the Hsunchen
>were an early pre-pantheonic stage of development. Unaware that they
>were supposed to only worship their own horse god, as a primitive
>Hsunchen, the Galanini ignorantly worshiped related Sky gods as well.
I don't care what the God Learners categorized against better knowledge
- after all they classified the almost urban culture of the Basmoli
(they built Hrelar Amali, right?) as Hsunchen as well - but I have read
a text (I think in Troll Pak) which stated that the 1st Age Theyalans
overthrew the horse nomads of Peloria with the help of Praxian beast
riders and Ralian non-Sun-worshipping horse riders. These latter can
only be the Galanini.
IMO, the Praxian culture is a Hsunchen Culture with the specific
addendum of riding and herding their respective phylum, and a tradition
of a common earth-mother for the beasts. Waha's covenant is the only
case I know where the cultural hero has left a mark as clearly on his
tribes, but the extremely harsh conditions of Prax and the Wastes made
this necessary.
While we're at it - how comes that Eiritha has no relation to horses in
Prax, when other beasts clearly of the sky - the ostrichs - are one of
her subjects/children. Did she sacrifice that bond (and many others)
when she revived Storm Bull in the (now) Dead Place?
Now what bugs me is that the Galanini turn out to worship the Sun
nevertheless. While even the Orlanthi horse (or rather pony) tale (KoS
p. 223) give the horse a solar connection through Elmal, and while the
Orlanthi seem to have incorporated descendants of the Dara Happan Solar
culture (the Hyaloring triarchy of clans in the Colymar Tribe), I am
somewhat reluctant to believe this Glorantha-wide cultural unity. This
seems like calling the Pelorian inhabitants or Ralian Hsunchen Warerans
after the mermaid mother of Malkion the Prophet/God, from whom the
western peoples trace descent, a God Learner over-simplification of
conflicting myths and history.
>>Did anyone else stumble about the phrase that Orlanth bathed in the
>>Flame or Fire of Ehilm when proving his sincerity before Yelm in the
>>Lightbringers Quest?
>Ehilm, Worlath, and Humct are the old Ralios names for Yelm, Orlanth,
>and Humakt. When the God Learners spread Theyalan civilization world
>wide, the Theyalan names for these gods became the standards. Hence
>Orlanth is named Orlanth practically everywhere that he is worshiped,
>no matter what the native speaker's tongue.
Let me expand this and speculate a bit. Were the Ralian Orlanthi (more
specifically their gods, or at least their worship of them) "awakened"
by Theyalan missionaries around the second century (RuneQuest Companion
- History of the Holy Country p.17, Dorastor - Land of Doom p.5ff, c.f.
Battle of Zebrawood, Cults of Terror p.16 - BTW, "liberating Peloria
from Darkness" by driving off the Sun-worshipping horse nomads), or did
the hill barbarians encountered by the Second Council in the hills
around the upper Tanier River have an Orlanthi tradition predating the
Dawn?
The different names for the major deities (makes me wonder whether
Elmal too is one of these names) indicate a long period of separation,
or the worship of a different entity covering the same function. (Nick
Brooke described the folly of the universal Indogermanic cult of
Diaus-Pitar sometime around August '93. I won't repeat his arguments.)
>However, superstitious types in Ralios, confused by the names, still
>worship Ehilm & co., usually by bizarre ceremonies and false dogmas.
>True worshipers of Yelm think of Ehilm followers much the same way as
>the ancient Jews thought of the Samaritans, who followed the same
>faith as the Jews, but did not accept the Prophets, just the Law, and
>had weird primitive addenda to the Jewish way of life.
So we'll find Ehilm worshipers in Ralios and Umathela, of rather
different creed.
>The reference to the Fire of Ehilm in Hell is the scribe's
>unwillingness to alter the name of this ancient event. He recognizes
>Yelm as the true sun god, but the oldest texts call Orlanth's purge
>the Fire of Ehilm so, by gum, so will he.
Sorry, I don't quite buy this.
First, several unrelated scribes agree in reporting Orlanth's bath in
the Flames of Ehilm - the God Learner-tainted description in Cults of
Terror (p.15), the description of the Short Lightbringers' Pilgrimage
in King of Sartar (p. 168) and Argrath's Lightbringers' Quest in KoS
(p.32) all come up with this name. I think it is unlikely that one
scribe's decision can change a name in a culture as widespread and
relying on oral tradition as the Orlanthi culture.
There is no apparent reason to change the sun god's name from Ehilm to
Yelm and not to change the name of his fire, if it was his. If it was
not, then there must be another divine incarnation of Sun and Fire
which was not slain by Orlanth, and thus a proper (because impartial)
judge.
I know this verges on the border of God Learnerism, but do the
universally acknowledged major powers (called Runes, Gods, Mythic
Dragons...) have separate entities, which locally rule over the power
and draw their own powers from this primeval power, or is there one
entity putting on different masks and names when appearing to its
worshippers? I ask this also from a non-Gloranthan perspective, since
on a RuneQuest-game world of my own I have several different Solar
deities and pantheons which have little to do with each other except
occasional conflict.
The same goes for sub-cults. Some lightbringers councils seem to have
two representatives of Orlanth, the leader (of the Rex aspect), and one
Adventurer sometimes called Vingan aspect, sometimes called Thunder
Brothers for unnamed sons (or aspects) of Orlanth.
So the question is: what things do I have to keep in mind when
designing a new cult or deity, be it for Glorantha or a generic
RuneQuest setting? What would be the interactions with existing deities
claiming the same area of expertise? Outright annihilation warfare,
like between Orlanth and the Red Goddess, mutual ignorance, like
between Genert and Pamalt, an alliance, like between Valind and Himile?
Does "possession" of the same Rune/Runic Power unify two entities? Are
Mastakos, Sartar, Ronance, Etyries, Issaries, Lokarnos, Magasta, the
Spirit of Movement, Orlanth, Pocharngo (all holders of Mobility) only
aspects of Larnste, the Mobility Rune's source? Are all deities of
communication and trade only aspects of Issaries, like Sandy said about
the God of the Silver Feet a while ago?
Regards,
Joerg "How to design a deity" Baumgartner
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28)
Subject: "MORE ORLANTHI CELTS
Message-ID: <5548*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 21 Jan 94 17:15:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2860
A while ago I pposted some reasons why <<orlanthi culture resembled the <
Celts.
I just stumbled across another one.
From the Law of Hywel Dda, 10th century Wales (quoted from Geoffrey Ashe e(
ed), The Quest fopr Arthur's Britain, p.168):
"The penalty for killing or stealing the cat that guards a royal barn. The
Thief is to pay a fine assessed by measurement of the cat:
Its head is to be held downwards on a clean, level floor, and its tail is
to be held upwards; and after that, wheat must be poured over it until the
tip of the tail is hidden, and that's its value."
A cat, measured head to tail, can wel reach 50 cm or more. A pile of grain
this high is a considerable weregeld for an ordinary cat, although not too
bad for a descendant of Yinkin. I wonder how a familiar would be valued...
I also found a reason why the Orlanthi are hill barbarians. In south
England (Sarum), the upland soils were lighter, though less fertile, than the
lowland or valley soils. Using the light (Barntar) plow, the harder lowland
soil could not be tamed. Only the introduction of the heavier Roman
(Lodril) plow allowed cultivation of this ground.
Another parallel to the Celts...
Joerg Baumgartner
ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de
---------------------
From: oka...@hpcc101.corp.hp.com (Jeff Okamoto)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 21 Jan 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <940121161...@hpcc101.corp.hp.com>
Date: 21 Jan 94 16:10:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2861
> From: guy....@chrysalis.org
>
> 3) Both believe (apparently with some validity) that they will not age or
> die naturally if they follow the tenets of their faith exactly, and do not
> question the validity of their dogma.
This is true only of the Brithini.
> From: eco...@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann)
> Subject: Lunar paperwork cost boldhome
>
> Lunar soldiers arrived & carted me off before the Provost....
>
> ...who stood up from his conference with the Royal Librarian and a
> Lunar Scribe (who was in my employ) and congratulated me on the good
> news that the librarian had found evidence that I was indeed of Solar
> descent, and that I could therefore look forward to joining th ecult
> of Yelm.
And you have Greg to thank for that. Otherwise you would have been
executed for treason.
Jeff
---------------------
From: oka...@hpcc101.corp.hp.com (Jeff Okamoto)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 21 Jan 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <940121162...@hpcc101.corp.hp.com>
Date: 21 Jan 94 16:20:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2862
> From: ap...@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon Appel)
>
> Q: "What is the God Learner's Secret?"
And the interesting follow-up is that Nick Brooke does *not* know the
God Learner secret! So everybody, stop bugging him about it!
> From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
>
> Stasis == Law
Incorrect. The Law Rune is a triangle.
Jeff
---------------------
From: bra...@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 21 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940121162...@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov>
Date: 21 Jan 94 16:23:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2863
> The final fate of the Pharoah was revealed. Apparently, he was
> begining a regular HeroQuest at the start of the MoLaD tournament.
> The Lunar Empire was, of course, aware of this HeroQuest, since it
> occurred regularly, and so Jar-eel was sent to ambush his spirit in
> the Hero Plane. She took the place of one of the Red Guards in the
> Hero Plane (the Pharoah had never known who the Red Guards were
> before, or why they were there), and easily defeated the Pharoah.
> Assumedly, Pharoah was then dragged off to the Lunar Hell where Sheng
> Solaris was hidden.
>
: While the pharoah was definately defeated by the Jar-eel (the
:Red Guard) it is not clear at all the he was drug off to a Lunar Hell.
:I prefer that he escaped.
In Phil Davis's world, Lord Frederick, Sword-Priest of Humakt, and I, Draco the
Rash, found the Pharaoh on the hero plane. What we saw was this (abbreviated):
We came upon a man, hands on knees, gazing forlornly down into a tiny puddle
in an otherwise flat, grassy landscape.
"Hello, I am Draco, and this is Lord Frederick. Who are you?" I asked the
stranger.
"I'm the Pharaoh," he replied. We were astonished. The Pharaoh here?
"What are you doing?" I asked.
"Trying to get home," he replied, and motioned toward the puddle.
"Why can't you go?" I asked. "Is it too small for you?" For indeed, it looked
much too small to contain him.
"No, it's large enough, see?" We looked over into the puddle, and saw that
it looked like a huge landscape, seen from a mountaintop. "I just can't get
through it, that's all."
"Why not?" asked Frederick.
"I'll show you," said the Pharaoh, and he jumped into the puddle. Amazingly, he
began to sink into it, and it began slowly to widen and deepen to accomodate
him. Just then, however, a tall woman in red armor with drawn scimitar appeared
behind him. She swung her weapon in a terrible arc, and the man saved himself
from being cut in two only by diving to one side. The warrior vanished as
quickly as she had manifested. The puddle, now vacant, shrank to its former
size.
"See?" He said. "I can't get out in time."
I understood then why even such a powerful man as the Pharaoh was unable to
extricate himself from this place, for I recognized the warrior. "What can
we do?" I asked.
"I don't know," said the Pharaoh.
Lord Frederick, however, did. Motioning to me to stand by him, he took up a
combat position directly behind the Pharaoh. He prayed to Humakt for strength
and for magics to make his shield strong. I did what I could, although knowing
that I was no match for Lord Frederick in combat. Then, without looking over
his shoulder, Frederick said, "Jump!"
The Pharaoh jumped, just as he had before. Jar-eel appeared again with scimitar
drawn, but this time when the blade came whistling down, it was met by
Frederick's redoubtable shield. The powerful blow rocked the Sword, but shield
and man held. Jar-eel swung again with the speed of lightning, but again
the blow was parried. I saw that either stroke, directed at me, would have
cut shield, armor, and body in two, yet I would have taken that stroke if
necessary and stood ready to do so. Frederick's towering strength held up,
however, and I was spared the trial. As the Pharaoh's head vanished below the
surface of the Hero world, Jar-eel vanished and we were again alone.
Brandon
---------------------
From: ten...@eskinews.eskimo.com (Ross TenEyck)
Subject: Humakt and Death
Message-ID: <1994012117...@eskinews.eskimo.com>
Date: 21 Jan 94 01:47:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2864
>Shannon D. Appel wrote:
>> To be a hero, you need to be close to your cult's ideals. For some
>> cults, like Orlanth, this is very easy to do. It's a much harder task
>> for others, like Humakti, however. Greg spoke of how close Humakti
>> are to death, but mentioned that he had never seen a Humakt who was
>> _really_ willing to undergo a HeroQuest that simply involved dying.
>> Yet, what would be a better way to meet the ideals of your God?
>The Humakt example has me very puzzled. I don't remember anywhere in the Myths
>where Humakt dies. Surely his role is to deliver death to others rather than
>on himself. I would agree that a Humakt should not be afraid of death. Can
>anyone add anything more of what Greg said to help me understand what he was
>trying to say.
Having played a Humakti, and given this matter some thought, this is my take
on the subject.
Humakt is not saying, "Death is good." Death is *natural*, a part of the
regular order of things. As such, it is neither really "good" nor "evil,"
except in the sense that natural things are better than unnatural (i.e,
Chaotic) things. Neither is Humakt saying that everyone should die. Face
it, this is hardly necessary. Everyone (again, without the intervention of
Chaos) *will* die, eventually.
The point of the Humakt cult is that there are good ways to die, and bad ways
to die; and the proper cultist strives to keep people from dying in bad ways.
Note that "good ways" and "bad ways" can be different for different people.
For a Humakti cultist, and for most other warriors, the preferred way to die
is in honorable combat. Farmers and other such people can quite correctly
die in bed after a long and full life, if they wish.
Bad ways to die include sickness, assassination, and, of course, being turned
into an undead. The last represents the greatest perversion of the natural
order of death, which is why Humakti hate the undead so passionately. If
necessary, a Humakti would find it his duty to kill someone cleanly rather
than allow them to suffer such a fate.
--
------------------------------------=<*>=-------------------------------------
Ross TenEyck | If I hold the sun in my hands, the flesh glows warmly red;
ten...@eskimo.com | and dusky ruby light beats darkly delicate in fragile
Poet for Hire | lace-work veins; my arms are filled with light... -RT
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <940121182...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 21 Jan 94 06:22:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2865
re: Morokanth cannibalism
So far I have heard nothing to sway me into a belief in kinder
gentler morokanth. One of the major themes of my own Gloranthan
campaigns is that reality and personal prejudice is ALWAYS able to
override cult dogma, except in a very few instances (like breaking
geases). IMHO, cult dogma is there to reinforce already-existing
beliefs and practices, not to oppress and hamper the populace. If the
Dara Happans all suddenly switched to the worship of Orlanth, there
would still be mucho tension between the valley people and the hill
people. No doubt in a few generations the "valley Orlanth" and
"mountain Orlanth" would evolve apart into two separate faiths with
radically different practices (much as the Pent Yelm worshipers and
the Dara Happa Yelm worshipers have almost nothing in common).
In like manner, I think that the obvious resemblances between herd
men and humans would tend to help morokanth to lump us all together,
insofar as food goes. I still stick to my theory of the morokanth
Waha food pyramid, wherein morokanth eat humans who eat herd beasts
who eat the grass. Think of the logic here -- in the contest
determining who ate who, why is it that humanity apparently got
something like 9 tries at the game. (There are rhino men, high llama
men, sable men, impala men, bison men, and used to be long-nose,
nose-horn, and plains elk men; plus presumably the proto-herd men had
a stab at it, winding up the only losers) This doesn't make sense.
Why didn't the bison, impalas, etc. get 9 tries each? The morokanth
answer, as I see it, is that the humans only had one try, and they
beat the herd beasts, so got to eat them all but the morokanth, who
beat the humans.
Joerg Baumgartner asks:
>How do the pygmie tribes of Prax and the normal-sized humans (I know
>that Bison and Rhino riders tend to be larger than Sables or Zebras,
>but the difference is neglectible compared to Impala or Bolo Lizard
>riders) interact and interbreed? I mean, do slave female humans
>among the Impala get impregnated, and counted as tribe members
>afterwards? and vice versa with slave female pygmies among the human
>tribes? And can the "sodomy" between humans and herd men produce
>offspring, and will that be man or beast?
The pygmy folk of Prax rarely marry into the other peoples, largely
because of this problem. In my own campaign, I play that the pygmy
size genes are slightly dominant over the "big" genes, so that the
child of a pygmy and a "big people" will be closer to the pygmy's
size. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the pygmy folk also used
"folk" medicine to try to stunt the growth of children that they fear
will grow too big.
I play that matings between human and herd men are fertile, and the
offspring's nature can be either (tending towards the mother's side,
though). In practice, when I've had a human/herd man mating in my own
campaign, I've had the child turn out to be whatever fits the current
adventure best.
Geoff Gunner asks:
>RQ Con sounds really good. Shall sulk for ages now. Want one in
>the UK. Bah.
You have one. As one of the few attendees to both Convulsion of the
Trillion Tentacles and RQ-Con USA, I think they were both excellent.
Home of the Bold was much smoother in the second running, but that
was to be expected, as the directors (I believe) had never before run
a live action game so large. I'm sure that When the West Was One will
be even better.
>Is there something in Sandy's history that he's hiding ?
Yes.
Iza Young asks:
>On a similar note, it sounds as if rules for Vormainian Color Magic
>are available ... Is this true, and how may I get these?
a) Wait till my house is built and I can gather together my records,
(b) make up your own, or (c) badger me until I try to put together a
pathetic remnant of them from memory.
Colin Watson sez:
>By convention I allow shield-cover to protect even against missile
>crits (as if the shot had been "parried": ie. some of the damage
>gets through but a lot of it is soaked up by the shield AP).
Ditto.
Dave Dunham (still whining about horse archers) sez:
>>(but first I said) The question is: what defeats horse archers?
>>Historically, I believe the answer is fortifications and light or
>>medium cavalry.
>Forts will do it, but are hardly an option for the caravan under
>attack.
Not so. Let's not forget the disadvantages of the horse archers --
they are lightly-armored, generally crappy in melee, and they cannot
really conceal their attacks or launch effective ambushes (they're on
animal-back and usually fighting on the plains, after all).
Since the caravan almost always has plenty of advance warning, all
they need to do is the traditional Wild West trick -- form the wagons
into a laager and hide beasts and non-combatants inside. The horse
archers are reduced to riding around the outside while those within
shoot at them from the comparative security of the wagons.
This isn't a perfect defense, of course, and sufficient numbers of
nomads will overwhelm it, but I bet you'll beat off plenty of
attacks.
Other effective nomad-beaters, accessible to many PCs:
Shamans can launch attack spirits at the horses (NOT the riders). A
possessed horse is a fairly fearsome opponent, and IMO you at least
need a riding roll each round to maintain control while the horse is
in spirit combat.
Sorcerers can cast spells with much greater range than an arrow.
Again, probably targeting horses is easier than the riders.
Lunar magicians can use their own specialty magic to greatly extend
the range on spirit magic spells. This culls out some of the nomads
before they even get within range.
Carl Fink hurls down the gauntlet:
> Sandy, can you name a non-cannibal culture that hasn't
>degenerated? It is in the nature of human cultures to degenerate.
Sure. Japanese. European. Islamic. Eskimo. The !Kung Bushmen seem to
have retained their society for at least a thousand years (when they
were pushed into the Kalahari by the expanding Negroid race). I'm not
arguing that the European, Japanese, Islamic, or even Eskimo cultures
don't contain flaws, but even anti-European sociologists feel that
the most deadly threats to our civilization are holdovers from the
olden days, not new decadence. For instance, the Western Way of war
served us well from the ancient Greeks up into the rather dismal age
of Imperialism. But that same style of war in World War I destroyed
Europe as the world's leading center of society. Nationalism as a
force has been important to Europe since the Hundred Years' War. But
look at the harm it's causing in Russia and the Balkans.
In any case, the degeneration common to cannibal cultures is far more
extreme and much much faster than that observed in more conventional
societies. The trend for cannibal states is that they become much
more violent and vicious; religious and social life suffers, and they
start killing their own population. It is, of course, possible that
some of these ill effects are actually the result of neighboring
societies refusing contact with the cannibals -- but they refuse such
contact because the cannibals are eating them! The whole process only
takes a few generations. Read the story of the plane crash in the
Andes, and see how fast the survivors went from shame and guilt at
eating their own dead from gleefully rooting through rotting entrails
like pigs for the tastiest bits.
Hmm. Got a little didactic on that last one. And it doesn't look like
it has much application to RQ, either. Well, I'll watch myself more
carefully in the future.
Sandy
---------------------
From: Convul...@snail.demon.co.uk (Convulsion94)
Subject: Convulsion94
Message-ID: <A966...@snail.demon.co.uk>
Date: 21 Jan 94 22:06:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2866
Hi All,
Well it seems that RQ Con was a success and Geoff Gunner said:
>RQ Con sounds really good. Shall sulk for ages now. Want one in the UK. Bah.
Well Cinderella you shall go to the ball... Have you sent your cash to David
Hall for CONVULSION 94 in Leicester, UK.
By my calculations all nearly all of the places should have gone by now, fill us
in David...
Many of the guests who were at RQ Con will be there along with many others and
hopefully many of you out on the Digest.
And don't forget we've got the new freeform "How the West was One".
David
David Scott - Programme Co-ordinator
Convul...@snail.demon.co.uk
---------------------
From: guy....@chrysalis.org
Subject: MISSING DIGES
Message-ID: <940121110...@chrysalis.org>
Date: 21 Jan 94 10:04:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2867
I also failed to recieve Part 1 of the 20 Jan Daily. Will/can this be reposted?
---------------------
From: ANDE...@howdy.Princeton.EDU
Subject: RuneQuest-Con
Message-ID: <50327...@howdy.princeton.edu>
Date: 21 Jan 94 21:24:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2868
We had a wonderful time at RuneQuest-Con; I especially enjoyed Home
of the Bold. Is there any way of getting the real
names to match the characters in HotB (and their e-mail addresses if
available) so we can contine to correspond with our fellow
adventurers? (Hey, Subatei, if you don't get mail from me
it bounced).
Things the Lunars Did Wrong:
1. Making a big deal about No more than Seven People May Assemble at
Any One Time, and then encouraging the entire populace to gather in
one spot every day to listen to the news. Some people may have
listened; the rest of us were busy negotiating, scheming, and hearing
the REAL news.
2. Blatantly obvious spies who shall remain nameless.
3. Announcing their plans in carrying voices while Grazelanders (for
example) are having a conference not far away. I didn't have to
listen to the Provost (Subatei did), so I could listen to them
instead ... and then suddenly felt faint and went outside for air, so
I could buttonhole the nearest Geo's regular and send a warning about
the next raid.
Unfortunately, my GM/husband runs much more efficient Lunars ...
Janet Anderson (Berta Featherpenny) (and I still hate that name!)
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk
Subject: Demons, pointer equality, and <Bing!>
Message-ID: <940121230...@keppel.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 21 Jan 94 23:09:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2869
From: Alex Ferguson.
About this Demoness Eater of Horses doodette, I'm rather vague on who she
is, in a mythographic sense. Is she:
a) A Godtime entity, not worshipped, and left out of the compromise, and
receiving no worship in Time until `dug up' by the Lunars. (Like the
crimson bat, I think, and possibly some others. (The Goddess herself?))
b) A diety of some foe of the Pentans. (Trolls?)
c) An Evil God of the Pentans, receiving propiatory worship, Ritual
Opposition type worship, or some such.
d) A demigod of some stripe
e) Some of the above.
f) None of the above. Please specify. [______________________________]
I hereby vote for e). (To wit, d) and c), in about that order.)
> Has anyone noticed the strange similarities between the religions of the
> Dwarfs and the Malkioni?
This could be argued, but I'm not concinved they are _that_ similar. But
it leads me onto what I was about to post, to wit:
When is a god not a god? Or rather, when is sie someone else?
Or less cryptically, when are two similar dieties actually the same one?
This has been discussed on the list before, but consider this wrinkle:
if two gods have identical, or near identical, attributes (but different
names, and possibly modes of worship), are they then _necessarily_ the same?
No, I here you all cry, since at the least, Ernalda and Dendara are different,
since the Goddess Switch failed. But did it? We have only the word of anti-
GL propaganda that it did. Extra credit: regardless of whether it did or
not, did they ever get switched _back_? To illustrate this isn't a clear-cut
question, note that while most published references claim the Switch was a
disaster, one (in _G:CotHW_ I think(??)) claims it was done with no ill-
effects. Find and Burn, I hear you Arkati
I think this is an interesting question, since it hss powerful implications
for the nature of divinity in G. If gods are distinguished only by their
manifest atrributes, it's evidence that they are essentially human (/sapient)
constructs. If they can be distinct, when by Ockham's Razor they wouldn't be,
it suggests they have an independant existance, at least to some degree.
Furthermore, it provides me with lots of opportunities to make nerdishly
god-learner-like jokes about Object Identity, the Pauli Exclusion Principle,
and annoying stuff like that.
How many Chaosium staffers does it take to change a light bulb?
I like the new writeup on Niceguy/Badguy. In particular, the Choose
Your Own Path to illumination aspect. But they should have gone further.
Becoming Illuminated.
So, there's a fixed set of riddles, and the chance is still linked to a skill,
but the question isn't? What gives? Anyone saying `game balance' will be
thwapt. Methods of illumination must surely differ by school, at the very
least by espousing different subsets of the questions, and more likely by
having alternative ones.
Powers of Illuminates.
1. Secret knowledge. Hm. I'm skeptical about this being as common as it's
cracked up to be. For one thing, I don't think most Arkati believe this,
or choatics who become `cynically' enlightened.
2. Sense Illumination. Should be more keyed to `school' of illumination.
Otherwise, there would be no doubt about whether the Near Ones etc
were illuminates. Similarly, should give clues as to _which_ school
the target belongs to.
4. Ignore Cult Restrictions. 5. Ignore Spirits of Reprisal. I've never
really liked these, or come to that, understood them. Explanations?
Other quibbles. Illumination should tie into chacacter traits, and passions
doubly so. Don't ask me for details. And it should certainly _affect_ them.
And: it's still too easy. Okay, it's as hard as gamesmaster fiat makes it,
but given the presumed existance of proselytising Riddlers, willing to
ask all their questions repeatedly until everyone `gets it', why isn't
anyone who wants it?
[A: All seven: they form a Lightbringer's Ring, heroquest back in time so that
they replace it as soon as the old one failed.]
Heroquesting, opposition, the godplane. Why does heroquesting potentially
involve time-travel, or communication with the past/future? The only thing
I can think of is the `Timeless' quality of the GP. But it isn't
_unchanging_: the 1st age GP is not the same as the 3rd, hence they aren't
the same `place', and so you can't get there from here. I vote this should
be Gregged at once. Someone bring me a pair of thumbscrews to Leicester.
[A2: None: Greg rewrites history so that it never blew in the first place.]
Alex.
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 20 Jan 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <940121231...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 21 Jan 94 23:15:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2870
>these guys _on_? "They believe that Orlanth _is_ the Invisible God."
My version of IO agrees with this: Orlanth is the Breath of the Creator. It
was he who brought the revelations of Solace to Malkion and Joy to Hrestol.
The cult, firmly within the Empire, presents itself to Lunar authority as
a Lunar/Healed cult: Orlanth is the Breath of the Creator, being Healed by
the Red Goddess. We know that the Count of Worion encourages this cult
among his knights; it seems to me that he would get stepped on by the Lunars
if the cult did not at least pay lip service to the Lunar Way.
- Paul Reilly`
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 20 Jan 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <940121231...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 21 Jan 94 23:18:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2871
Yara Aranis:
Remember that her mother is Gorgorma, goddess of Shadow and Earth. The
Shadow Rune is related to Darkness, thus Terrify Horse seems appropriate:
combines the Fear associated with Darkness with the Madness associated with
YA's grandmother, the Red Moon.
Yara's father is the Red Emperor, does anyone know much about the flavor of
his powers?
---------------------
From: ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: Dayzatar
Message-ID: <1994012203...@panix.com>
Date: 21 Jan 94 17:50:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2872
san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) writes in part:
R>I have a complete writeup of Dayzatar (buried in a hard-to-get
>place). I don't think he has any subcults -- heroes and spirits that
>want to get associated with the distant uncaring sky do so by contact
>with Ourania, his more-accessible spouse.
~~~~~~
Ourania is his daughter, right? Mistress of Heaven, Goddess of Truth?
(What I'd really like to know is how she relates to Lhankor Mhy's
"Light of Knowledge".)
Lorn Miller writes:
>...I'm still trying to figger out how Carmanian society works, and
>which of the sources on Carmanian religion is correct---do folks
>worship cults as implied by the Genertela player's book or are they
>Malkioni as implied by the GM's book?
Both. They're heretical Malkioni who worship the Invisible God and
also pagan gods.
Belief in the precognitive powers of an Asian pastry is really no wackier
than belief in ESP, subluxation, or astrology, but you just don't hear
anyone preaching Scientific Cookie-ism. --Penn and Teller
Carl Fink ca...@panix.com CARL.FINK (GEnie)
---------------------
X-RQ-ID: Extro
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: ak...@netcom.com (Steven E Barnes)
Subject: Illumination
Message-ID: <1994012210...@mail.netcom.com>
Date: 21 Jan 94 18:58:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2873
>How many Chaosium staffers does it take to change a light bulb?
How many Illuminates does it take to change a light bulb?
Answer: This is not a lightbulb (said while smashing the bulb).
>I like the new writeup on Niceguy/Badguy. In particular, the Choose
>Your Own Path to illumination aspect. But they should have gone further.
>
>Becoming Illuminated.
>So, there's a fixed set of riddles, and the chance is still linked to a skill,
>but the question isn't?
??? It seems to be the same old skill-based riddles, which I have
never liked.
>Powers of Illuminates.
>1. Secret knowledge. Hm. I'm skeptical about this being as common as it's
> cracked up to be. For one thing, I don't think most Arkati believe this,
> or choatics who become `cynically' enlightened.
IMHO, this is the most fundimental effect.
>2. Sense Illumination. Should be more keyed to `school' of illumination.
> Otherwise, there would be no doubt about whether the Near Ones etc
> were illuminates. Similarly, should give clues as to _which_ school
> the target belongs to.
I think it should take the form of vague hunches; you may not even
realize that someone is Illuminated, until some time after the encounter.
>4. Ignore Cult Restrictions. 5. Ignore Spirits of Reprisal. I've never
> really liked these, or come to that, understood them. Explanations?
Well, here is my unofficial, heretical explaination:
The Illuminate realizes that a being is composed of multiple personality
aspects, some good, others destructive. The Illuminate is capable of
switching between them, as easily as removing a mask and donning another.
So an Illuminate can be potentially both Lawful and Chaotic, but not
simultaneously. When he/she adopts a Chaotic aspect, any chaos features
will manefest, and will become detectable. When not using the Chaotic
aspect, any chaos taint cannot be detected.
This concept also applies to cults. The Illuminate can adopt a
personality aspect which is a devout worshipper of a cult such as
Humakt. While in this personality mode, the Illuminate behaves as
a devout Humakti, and recieves the appropriate cult benefits. If
he later wishes to lie, break oaths, or whatever, he can do so by
switching to a different personality aspect. Thus, the "Humakt"
part of him did not lie, and so the god is unaware of the transgression.
However, IMHO, if the cult hierarchy gets wise to this, they can still
dispatch Spirits of Retribution against the transgressor.
>And: it's still too easy. Okay, it's as hard as gamesmaster fiat makes it,
>but given the presumed existance of proselytising Riddlers, willing to
>ask all their questions repeatedly until everyone `gets it', why isn't
>anyone who wants it?
Agreed. I don't buy the "people fear and kill those who ask strange
questions" excuse. Certainly anyone in the Lunar Empire desiring
Illumination should have no problems achieving it.
I think Illumination should require years of contemplation. Involuntary
Illumination should be rare. My assumption is that this idea is
bastardized Zen Buddhism, wherein the master swordsman may suddenly
achieve enlightenment, from a casual remark by a Zen master.
-steve
---------------------
From: dev...@aol.com
Subject: RQ Daily - RQ4
Message-ID: <940122064...@aol.com>
Date: 22 Jan 94 11:41:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2874
This is my first posting. Hello to all!
I know that everyone and his mother has begged for a copy of the RQ4 draft,
so let me be the next. Can anyone mail or email such to me? My email address
is:
On the RQ4 subject, one thing that needs to be made certain is that RQ4 is
the last update to t
he system for quite some time (I'm talking ten years here). Nothing will kill
a game so much as completely revising the rules or putting out errata every
two years or so. AD&D can perhaps, due to
its "popularity" get away with this, but RQ cannot.
I, for one, would much rather wait an ex
tra 6 months to a year for RQ4 to come out well play-tested. Of special
importance is play at "higher" levels. RQ2 and RQ3 both break down at higher
levels (as we all know). Such items as the resistance table and combat rules
designed to handle characters with attacks and parries over 140% need to be
addressed.
While the majority of campaigns will never reach this level of play, there is
nothing more discouraging than to finally reach those heights (my campaign
has been running once a week for 8 years) and watch the game rules start to
melt away. The RQ4 system should hold up through at least level of 500%-1000%
(in order to handle some of the Horrors from Elder Secrets).
Until Ogres start flossing.......
Devin Cutler
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Gloranthan names; temples
Message-ID: <1994012118...@radiomail.net>
Date: 21 Jan 94 18:16:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2875
Joerg Baumgardner wrote:
>Now the name Hyaloring seems to suggest Pentan or Dara Happan ancestry
I've never been able to make any sense of the names Greg's come up with --
and I've tried. In King of Sartar and beyond, he's at least making some
attempt, but it still seems to be whatever sounds cool to Greg.
>From: prh...@wam.umd.edu (Philip Rhinelander)
>Do they really need to hop the
>pond back to Genertela just to refresh thier Rune magic?
Yes, that's what the rules say. If they can't get to a temple, they can't
renew. (Some "God Learner Equivalency" temples may work -- you could go to
a Dendara temple to renew Ernalda spells -- but these are likely to be rare
when you're real far from home.)
>More basic to
>this question (I think) is the question of proselytism; what does the
>Compromise say about the ability of the Lightbringer pantheon to win new
>followers?
This is what I see as a problem with the RQ3 temple size rules. It's very
hard to go elsewhere and be a missionary. Maybe that's true for Glorantha.
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <940122184...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 22 Jan 94 06:41:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2876
Joerg Baumgartner wonders:
>How do you coordinate spell attacks to avoid multiple action against
>some of the attackers and letting others come unmolested?
This is not a problem in a mass combat, in my opinion, though it can
cause trouble in a small melee. Take an example of 100 Yara Aranis
initiates casting ignite on 100 Pent archers. If the Yara dudes have
a reasonable amount of encumbrance and no greater POW than average,
only around 50% of the spells go off. If they're totally randomly
arranged among the targets, almost 40% of them will get hit with the
spell (some of them more than once), and that's enough to reduce the
harm done to the defenders, especially as the guys in the front with
the best shooting chance are the likeliest to get hit.
In real military fighting, most attacks are without effect. During
the Crimean war, it took a British soldier something like 9000 shots
to kill a single Russian (BTW, it took the Russians, evidently better
shots, only 5000 to kill a Brit. And a Frenchman, manifestly the best
of the lot, 4000 to kill a Russian.). The most effective weapon of
World War II only had about a 14% hit rate (the kamikazes of Japan),
which was staggeringly effective.
Also remember that not everyone has to be shot to break up an attack.
If 35% of a group of Pent nomads suddenly lose the use of their main
weapon, they'll be disheartened, and all but the best troops will be
fearful and less effective. A sudden charge by opposing cavalry, or
even infantry, may well send them into retreat.
>I happened to have read Biturian Varosh's description of the troll
>and morokanth attack on the Paps recently. In it, Biturian first
>casts his Market sell for the ceremony. Then, when the forces of
>darness attack, he grabs his quarterstaff and fights back the
>trolls, without getting any ill effect from his spell.
Remember, Biturian only cast a Market spell -- it will only do 1d3
damage to anyone it triggers against, hardly sufficient to dissuade
Biturian or the temple guards. The purpose of the Market spell at the
Paps was to act as an alarm, not to incapacitate or cripple the
trolls (note that they and their Morokanth allies were not even
slowed down by the spell).
[I said]
>>Horses are the Beast of Fire. The Galanini date from the First Age,
[Joerg sez]
>I don't believe that.They are beasts of fire, yes, and as such
>related to birds, griffons and other celestial animals, but not
>particularly associated with fire.
Perhaps I missed something in the translation. Could you say this
again, slower? They are beasts of fire and related to other celestial
animals, but NOT associated with fire?
>I have read a text (I think in Troll Pak) which stated that the 1st
>Age Theyalans overthrew the horse nomads of Peloria with the help of
>Praxian beast riders and Ralian non-Sun-worshipping horse riders.
>These latter can only be the Galanini.
There can be plenty of horse-riding non-Sun worshipers. Tarsh exiles
ride horses. Malkioni ride horses. In any case, the Galanini do NOT
worship the sun gods in the same manner as the Pelorians or Pentans.
Their worship style would be no more acceptable to the Pure Horse
People than was the Dara Happan faith.
>IMO, the Praxian culture is a Hsunchen Culture with the specific
>addendum of riding and herding their respective phylum, and a
>tradition of a common earth-mother for the beasts.
Wow. I can't agree with this less. I don't see any traces of Hsunchen
among the Praxians at all, and I don't believe they ever were
Hsunchen. Their animals are not their brothers, but their food. They
have a complex pantheon
>While we're at it - how comes that Eiritha has no relation to horses
>in Prax, when other beasts clearly of the sky - the ostrichs - are
>one of her subjects/children.
Why are ostriches one of her subjects? They're not part of the
Covenant, though some folk believe they were adopted into it later
on. I have my doubts about the efficacy of Release INT on an ostrich.
In any case, they're among the least sky-oriented birds of all. Just
because birds in general are sky entities doesn't mean they all are.
Roosters are Earth birds, hawks are Fire birds, owls are Darkness
birds, etc. Just as Horses are Sky beasts, Cattle are Storm beasts,
Pigs are Earth beasts, etc.
>do the universally acknowledged major powers (called Runes, Gods,
>Mythic Dragons...) have separate entities, which locally rule over
>the power and draw their own powers from this primeval power, or is
>there one entity putting on different masks and names when appearing
>to its worshippers?
The gods in GODS OF GLORANTHA that possess the Infinity Rune (Flamal,
Uleria, frex) are those which were the original source of a
particular Rune, and have retained it since then. Gods that have a
doubled Rune are the current source of the Rune, but have inherited
it from a previous (probably deceased) deity. Examples of the latter
include Subere, Orlanth, Yelm, and Humakt.
All other deities that have access to a Rune get it by hook or crook
from the Rune's source. Thus, Zorak Zoran, Malia, and even Yelm
access their Death Rune ultimately through Humakt's existence.
The most evil of the God Learners ostensibly believed that all Death
gods were ultimately the same god, and that all Storm gods were
ultimately the same god. This led to very bad results.
Major Gods have a secret power -- they represent some primal facet of
existence, though it may not be as important as the Rune Sources.
Thus, Storm Bull is the god of Rage. Zorak Zoran is god of Hate, Thed
is goddess of Rape and violation, Voria is goddess of Youth. If Zorak
Zoran were expunged from the world, it would be fundamentally
changed, but the world would not be in threat of destruction (as it
would if a Source god like Uleria or Magasta were knocked out).
Minor Gods may have a widespread worship, but have no secret power.
Ultimately, they can fade out of existence without changing much.
Gods like Sog, the Grain Goddesses, Pavis, and the like are these
entities.
Cool parallel between light upland soil (=hill barbarians) and heavy
lowland soil (=civilized farmers). Thanks, Joerg.
Alex Ferguson ponders:
>About this Demoness Eater of Horses doodette, I'm rather vague on
>who she is, in a mythographic sense.
She is one of the inspirations of Moonson (don't recall which one,
sorry -- no doubt Nick or Colin or Joerg or Geoff etc. will know).
She is the daughter of the Red Emperor and a really gross Demon that
the Pent nomads have always hated and feared (my guess is Gorgorma).
I don't think she existed before time, and is another "mortal" made
into goddess by Lunar worship, like the rest of their gods (Hon-Eel,
Jar-Eel, Etyries, etc.).
---------------------
From: sc...@central.sussex.ac.uk (Jonathan Eyre)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 22 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <28343.199401232020@solx1>
Date: 23 Jan 94 20:20:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2877
LANDS of DAWN/DUSK...
Where can I find info about these parts of Glorantha? Are they one of
the places where the Hero Plane touches the real world?
And...
If Lunars=Romans, Orlanthi=Celts, and there are other "Earth
equivilant" civilisations (the Orientals on the East coast, whom I
can't for the life of me remember).
Are there Aztec/Inca/Toltec equivilents, and where are they?
Pamaltela?
Thanks
Jon Eyre (sc...@central.sussex.ac.uk)
---------------------
From: mcar...@fit.qut.edu.au (Mr Robert McArthur)
Subject: praxian tribe founders vs sun dome
Message-ID: <1994012400...@fitmail.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 24 Jan 94 15:03:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2878
Flicking through the treasure trove of the sun dome temple defences in
Sun County, I noticed that the principle spirit of the temple at one time
defeated the founder spirit of the bison tribe. Now, looking at the nomad
gods counters this founder is 10-11-10-* (or something close since I am
at "work" :-) Recalling Cults of Prax Waha writeup we have the Summon
Founder spell summon a spirit with power 40-110, and strength+size =
10* the summoners.
So, given that the magic number on the counters reflects power, magical
offence and magical defence, 11 may reflect the 110 possible power of the
spell. The bat has some 1200 MP (power is "real" RQ - ie. RQII ;-) and has
a counter of -1: ok, it's chaotic. The Red Emperor has 10. Does this mean
his power is about 100? Cragspider's 7 = 70 pow? Inhuman King's 8=80 pow?
Of course, you can't continue the sequence into units that aren't 'single
entities'. Yes, these other 'single entities' aren't so single, but how
about the relationship between the founders pow from the spell, and the
counter: chance?
Can we at last make a link between the DP/NG counters and RQ RPG people.
Stats is a bit mindless in some ways, but I find it helps to visualise the
extent of the entities immensity!
Robert
---------------------
From: ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: Cannibalism
Message-ID: <1994012401...@panix.com>
Date: 23 Jan 94 15:42:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2879
san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) writes:
R>Iza Young asks:
R>>On a similar note, it sounds as if rules for Vormainian Color Magic
>>are available ... Is this true, and how may I get these?
R>a) Wait till my house is built and I can gather together my records,
>(b) make up your own, or (c) badger me until I try to put together a
>pathetic remnant of them from memory.
Please, please, please, please....
R>Carl Fink hurls down the gauntlet:
Um, I didn't mean to sound hostile.
R>> Sandy, can you name a non-cannibal culture that hasn't
>>degenerated? It is in the nature of human cultures to degenerate.
R>Sure. Japanese. European. Islamic. Eskimo. The !Kung Bushmen seem to
>have retained their society for at least a thousand years (when they
>were pushed into the Kalahari by the expanding Negroid race).
Hypothetically, how could the Eskimo degenerate? What do you mean by
"degenerate" anyway, if Japanese culture didn't degenerate in, say, the
1800s? If you can include the !Kung, I can include the Maori, anyway.
>...Read the story of the plane crash in the
>Andes, and see how fast the survivors went from shame and guilt at
>eating their own dead from gleefully rooting through rotting entrails
>like pigs for the tastiest bits.
That's not what I read -- they certainly lost some of their negative
feelings about cannibalism, but OTOH as soon as three of them got near
human civilization again, they discarded the human flesh they had along
as supplies and starved for several days rather than revert to eating
it.
al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk asks about Yara Aranis.
She's a new deity, born during Time as a child of the Red Emperor and
Gorgorma. Gorgorma is an enemy goddess of the Pentans (as an enemy of
their sun god, Kargzant).
I've had many of the same questions about Illumination that Alex has.
In particular, why can't spirits of retribution bother them, even if
directed to by priests certain of their apostasy?
My apologies to Loren Miller. I really do know how to spell your
name, I have no idea how "Lorn" got in there.
Belief in the precognitive powers of an Asian pastry is really no wackier
than belief in ESP, subluxation, or astrology, but you just don't hear
anyone preaching Scientific Cookie-ism. --Penn and Teller
Carl Fink ca...@panix.com CARL.FINK (GEnie)
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: New damage bonus
Message-ID: <1994012402...@radiomail.net>
Date: 24 Jan 94 02:36:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2880
Oliver said about the new damage bonus:
>However, we are concerned that at first
>glance, it may put off RQ2/RQIII players, or those concerned with
>compatibility with RQIII scenario packs (though conversion can be
>very simple, i.e. +1D4 is +1 or +2, each +1D6 is roughly +3). I've
>even considered including the old (die based) damage bonus chart to
>use as an optional rule.
Given that you've changed armor and damage, you're already incompatible.
Therefore, there's no point in using the old damage bonus as an optional
rule. And even if you did, the old values aren't compatible with the new
armor and weapon damage.
I don't think I've heard a damage bonus single complaint from my players,
BTW. (They're more concerned with stuff like "what happened to my lamellar
armor" or "what's the range on the bone bow I took from the dragonewt?"
David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206 783 7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddu...@radiomail.net
"I say we should listen to the customers and give them what they want."
"What they want is better products for free." --Scott Adams
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Yara Aranis
Message-ID: <1994012402...@radiomail.net>
Date: 24 Jan 94 02:50:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2881
Oops, I miss-sent a message I meant for the RQ4 list. Sorry about that.
>From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk
>Subject: Demons, pointer equality, and <Bing!>
>
>About this Demoness Eater of Horses doodette, I'm rather vague on who she
>is, in a mythographic sense. Is she:
In the Prosopaedia of Gods of Glorantha, Yara Aranis (horse eater and
goddess of the Reaching Moon) is the daughter of the Red Emperor and
Gorgorma. I'd say that makes her a new entity.
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28)
Subject: "PRAX AND HORSES (MOSTLY)
Message-ID: <5319*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 24 Jan 94 18:52:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2885
David Dunham in X-RQ-ID: 2875
>Joerg Baumgardner wrote:
>>Now the name Hyaloring seems to suggest Pentan or Dara Happan ancestry
>I've never been able to make any sense of the names Greg's come up with --
>and I've tried. In King of Sartar and beyond, he's at least making some
>attempt, but it still seems to be whatever sounds cool to Greg.
One consistent approach is to include the names of gods or heroes in
personal names. In this case: Hyalor Horsebreaker, cultural hero of the
Pentans much the same way Waha is for the Praxians.
>>From: prh...@wam.umd.edu (Philip Rhinelander)
>>Do they really need to hop the
>>pond back to Genertela just to refresh thier Rune magic?
>Yes, that's what the rules say. If they can't get to a temple, they can't
>renew. (Some "God Learner Equivalency" temples may work -- you could go to
>a Dendara temple to renew Ernalda spells -- but these are likely to be rare
>when you're real far from home.)
Unless they visit the Orlanthi tribes in Umathela.
But seriously: the same problem bugged me, too.
Sandy's notes on major powers give some excuse for worship of similar
forces, but imply a certain God Learnerism (or naivity) on the side of
the character.
This ties neatly with a recent question on the RQ4 list: which
restrictions and duties are based on mundane hierarchy, which are based on
divine will?
>>More basic to
>>this question (I think) is the question of proselytism; what does the
>>Compromise say about the ability of the Lightbringer pantheon to win new
>>followers?
>This is what I see as a problem with the RQ3 temple size rules. It's very
>hard to go elsewhere and be a missionary. Maybe that's true for Glorantha.
I found an interesting remark in Cults of Terror or RuneQuest Companion
that the early Theyalan missionaries went about and "woke" the deities (or
their worship) among the peoples they converted.
On my own gameworld, I have a religion with missionaries very similar to
that, contacting local spirits or deities to include them as saints in their
rather pantheistic creed. They are somewhat illuminated in their tolerance,
or at least Roman in their pursuits of including deities into their bigger
picture. Maybe God-Learnerish, too (does anybody have a better adjective
form of God Learner?).
Don't the Lunar missionaries use similar techniques with their customary
marrying of foreign gods?
Their philosophy of healing gods formerly not diseased remind me strongly
of 1st Age Tanisor and Seshnela. Who said that Nysalor is dead? He just
changed gender and colour and now rides a bat...
---------------------
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2876
>Joerg Baumgartner wonders:
>>How do you coordinate spell attacks to avoid multiple action against
>>some of the attackers and letting others come unmolested?
>This is not a problem in a mass combat, in my opinion, though it can
>cause trouble in a small melee. Take an example of 100 Yara Aranis
>initiates casting ignite on 100 Pent archers. If the Yara dudes have
>a reasonable amount of encumbrance and no greater POW than average,
>only around 50% of the spells go off. If they're totally randomly
>arranged among the targets, almost 40% of them will get hit with the
>spell (some of them more than once), and that's enough to reduce the
>harm done to the defenders, especially as the guys in the front with
>the best shooting chance are the likeliest to get hit.
OK, the numbers aren't that bad. On the other hand, otherwise sensible
people have been known to run into heavy enemy fire shouting hurrah and
getting shot, with perhaps 20% of them arriving at the opponent, but
slaughtering them like sheep. (or all of them collapsing before...)
Only problem with ignite without special backup is that you get shot twice
before these guys come into range. More often if they just stay outside
standard magic and thrown missile range, as could and did the Mongols.
>In real military fighting, most attacks are without effect. [impressive
examples deleted]
[Crimean War]
This is a very different style of fighting. No Fantasy or pre-firearms
warrior would ever have thought of covering an advance or retreat with
small missile fire (bows, slings). Neither would an archer who spent several
hours on preparing his best arrows distribute these freely in the landscape.
Also, the desired result is not the kill, but the temporary crippling of
the opponent, to use as slaves or sacrifices or to hold for ransom
afterwards. Most actual killing occurred when the battle was decided.
>Also remember that not everyone has to be shot to break up an attack.
>If 35% of a group of Pent nomads suddenly lose the use of their main
>weapon, they'll be disheartened, and all but the best troops will be
>fearful and less effective. A sudden charge by opposing cavalry, or
>even infantry, may well send them into retreat.
I like to think of them as similar to Scythian or Persian knights, quite
heavily armored and equipped with sabres, lances or similar as well.
Stirrups were an invention of the great plains, and the Praxian lancers
need them as much as the horse nomads'. (Who was the hero who introduced
them?)
>Remember, Biturian only cast a Market spell -- it will only do 1d3
>damage to anyone it triggers against, hardly sufficient to dissuade
>Biturian or the temple guards. The purpose of the Market spell at the
>Paps was to act as an alarm, not to incapacitate or cripple the
>trolls (note that they and their Morokanth allies were not even
>slowed down by the spell).
There is no damage mentioned, and other rule-specific effects are stressed
as well. And a market spell used as trigger to release a ghost seems not
out of possibilities.
Anyway, what I really meant to say was that city defenses and town defenses
might be explained with spirits who receive worship as well as with RQ3
rules enchantments. I like to think that 100 part time worshippers produce
as much mana as the sacrifice of one point of permanent POW, if rules
values are required. The two times seven times seve worshippers needed to
regain (or cast?) a resurrection (without the Chalana Arroy priestess
having to renew it?) in KoS gives a three times higher exchange rate, after
all Resurrection is a three point spell.
>[I said]
>>>Horses are the Beast of Fire. The Galanini date from the First Age,
^^^ ^
>>I don't believe that.They are beasts of fire, yes, and as such
>>related to birds, griffons and other celestial animals, but not
>>particularly associated with fire.
>Perhaps I missed something in the translation. Could you say this
>again, slower? They are beasts of fire and related to other celestial
>animals, but NOT associated with fire?
Ok, so I jumped at the article before and the capital and singular of
Beast. The only way the horse retained anything of fire is its temperament,
even according to the Hippoi myth.
>>I have read a text (I think in Troll Pak) which stated that the 1st
>>Age Theyalans overthrew the horse nomads of Peloria with the help of
>>Praxian beast riders and Ralian non-Sun-worshipping horse riders.
>>These latter can only be the Galanini.
>There can be plenty of horse-riding non-Sun worshipers. Tarsh exiles
>ride horses. Malkioni ride horses. In any case, the Galanini do NOT
>worship the sun gods in the same manner as the Pelorians or Pentans.
>Their worship style would be no more acceptable to the Pure Horse
>People than was the Dara Happan faith.
I was inaccurate again: I meant horse nomads, non-sedentary peoples
relying on their horses as essential to their way of life. Steal a knight's
horses, and he still has his castle. Steal a nomad's horses, and watch him
defend his tent...
>>IMO, the Praxian culture is a Hsunchen Culture with the specific
>>addendum of riding and herding their respective phylum, and a
>>tradition of a common earth-mother for the beasts.
>Wow. I can't agree with this less. I don't see any traces of Hsunchen
>among the Praxians at all, and I don't believe they ever were
>Hsunchen. Their animals are not their brothers, but their food. They
>have a complex pantheon
Let me switch into God Learner mode:
The Hsunchen worship their beast ancestor.
Praxians worship the beast mother and her children (e.g. Sable-Founder,
-Protectress), from whom they descended.
The Hsunchen worship the Hunter as main source of meat.
Praxians worship Waha for slain herd beasts, Hunter for slain game.
The Hsunchen propitiate or venere predominant local forces of nature.
The Praxians propitiate Storm Bull, Gagarth, and they worship Storm Bull,
Zola Fel...
The Hsunchen worship a plethora of local spirits, summoned by the shamans
at holy places.
The Praxians worship a plethora of local spirits, summoned by the shamans
at the oasis altars in Prax. (e.g. Frog Woman)
Both practice ancestor worship to some extent.
Both consider outsiders as less than human.
Telmori consider their wolves as full members of their tribe. Praxians
don't do so, since Waha's covenant made the herd beasts unintelligent.
Praxians were active participants in the Gods War.
OK, we lack reports about the Hsunchen activities then. Given the Basmoli
Empire in Dawn Age Tanisor, they did, too.
The Praxians have a solid holy place in the Paps. (They inherited it from
the Golden Age people).
The Basmoli erected Hrelar Amali. (They developed this themselves, or had
Godtime experience with this. They built it themselves.)
The Praxians worshipped a whole pantheon in Godtime. These gods are dead
now.
According to GL taxonomy, there exists a whole pantheon of beast ancestors
who died during Godtime. Plus the Hsunchen acknowledge the local earth
powers (proto-Grain goddesses, like Balazar Vyrope, or the goddess' aspects
in tRathorell;a, Ramalia, etc.
Now where except in the covenant introduced because of the special power
depletion in the Praxian chapparal do you see the great difference? Master
Hunters and Khans are not that different.
God Learner mode off, flame-proof suit on.
>>While we're at it - how comes that Eiritha has no relation to horses
>>in Prax, when other beasts clearly of the sky - the ostrichs - are
>>one of her subjects/children.
>Why are ostriches one of her subjects? They're not part of the
>Covenant, though some folk believe they were adopted into it later
>on. I have my doubts about the efficacy of Release INT on an ostrich.
>In any case, they're among the least sky-oriented birds of all. Just
>because birds in general are sky entities doesn't mean they all are.
>Roosters are Earth birds, hawks are Fire birds, owls are Darkness
>birds, etc. Just as Horses are Sky beasts, Cattle are Storm beasts,
>Pigs are Earth beasts, etc.
Morokanth are darkness beasts - oops, creatures - according to Biturian's
report from the Paps. Bison, aurochs and cattle surely are closely related
Earth. Bolo Lizards are saurians, yet part of the covenant. And in the
Pavis Common Knowledge booklet there is this picture in the wastes, where
lots of beasts (including the zebra, a beast only quite recently adopted into
the covenant) paid homage to Genert, a very conscious and intelligent act.
I really have problems with the reasons why Eiritha would not allow horses
in Prax. She did so all the time between the Battles of Necklace Horse and
Alavan Argay, and ever since Derek Pol Joni retrieved the Black Net, the
horses are back in Prax, and thrive.
Is this all beast rider propaganda? The story about Joraz Kyrem's creation
of the War Zebras mentions psychological reasons only.
---------------------
Jonathan Eyre in X-RQ-ID: 2877
>LANDS of DAWN/DUSK...
>Where can I find info about these parts of Glorantha? Are they one of
>the places where the Hero Plane touches the real world?
Luathela and the lands of Dusk are part of the Lightbringers' Quest and
described sketchily in KoS. They lie in the outer world, and are already
part of the hero-plane like Glorantha.
>If Lunars=Romans, Orlanthi=Celts, and there are other "Earth
>equivilant" civilisations (the Orientals on the East coast, whom I
>can't for the life of me remember).
Sorry if my insistence on Celtic Orlanthi or other parallels lead to the
impression the cultures are parallels. They aren't, only some people like
Nick Brooke and me find it convenient to picture certain traits in analogs.
>Are there Aztec/Inca/Toltec equivilents, and where are they?
>Pamaltela?
Quite recently the western part of the Holy Country has been accused of
being Egyptian, Aztec, Minoan and several other cultures. Regions like
Porthomeka on the border between Esrolia and Caladraland might actually be
like one of these, and all are somewhat like all of these.
The Pamaltelan urban societies are either coastal, i.e. God Learner tainted,
or extinct, stemming from the Artmali Empire. (Fonrit actually qualifies
for both.) These pre-darkness Lunars had a culture little is published
about. The Doraddi have only recently developed city-like structures, the
wagon cities of the Kresh.
---------------------
From: guy....@chrysalis.org
Subject: RE: MOSTALI & MAL
Message-ID: <940121080...@chrysalis.org>
Date: 21 Jan 94 07:01:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2882
I'd be interested in seeing if there's some kind of historical basis for this
relationship, and when it occurred. Is there any kind of special animosity or
alliance between Mostali and Malkioni?
Another similarity I forgot to point out: both races share an almost
pathological dislike of biological reproduction.
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: MISSING DIGES
Message-ID: <940124092...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 24 Jan 94 11:25:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2883
_______________________
guy....@chrysalis.org
_______________________
>I also failed to recieve Part 1 of the 20 Jan Daily. Will/can this be reposted?
No.
It contained a "mailer-daemon" from some site.
My scripts try to prevent messages like these
from getting out.
Unfortunately, this is done, *after* messages
have been allocated to parts 1, 2, ...
Cheers,
Henk
--
Henk | Henk.La...@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
---------------------
From: CHARTLEY%ESOC....@vm.gmd.de (C. Hartley Data Processing Division)
Subject: Diseases
Message-ID: <940124154...@Sun.COM>
Date: 24 Jan 94 15:44:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2884
Hi all,
I've just made a classic mistake in the campaign I'm running and I'm hoping
you lot can help me out. One of the characters has contracted the Creeping
Chills (by foolishing pulling out a bucket full of infected slime from
a pit I had Broo breeding disease in).
The problem is that I didn't really work out the implications of this first!
Now he's managed to contract the hourly-loss level of disease (Serious ?)
According to the RQ III rulebook, this basically means he has to get to bed
(in the nearest Inn in this case) and with a bit of luck he'll be ok
by tomorrow morning, maybe two or three CON points down.
If I understand these rules correctly they seem to be a bit over simplistic.
The three particular things that concern me are:
(1) It seems that just by lying in bed he'll soon make his CON role and
thereby recover from the disease. No special diet, medicine, Chalana
Arroy attention, nothing is required.
(2) His CON points don't return when he recovers.
(3) No need for recupperation is specified.
Now, I'm intending to play around with the rules a bit, but I'ld like the
opinions of others. I thought that for number (3), half a week per CON
point lost is not unreasonable.
Similarly, I reckon that half his lost CON points will eventually come back,
at the rate of one per week, for (2).
A consequence of (1) is that it's virtually impossible for diseases like this
to kill a character. Surely to get a disease in a Gloranthan type world should
be a big problem - life threatening. I therefore intend to rule that he
doesn't get a CON role to halt the disease until somebody semi-competent does
something more than put him to bed with a bowl of broth.
ALL comments gratefully received,
Chris.
End of Message
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 21 Jan 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <940124211...@barren.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 24 Jan 94 21:13:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2886
From: Alex Ferguson.
> >Any bets on whether 1st/2nd age Carmania had Yelm/IG worship
> >combined in this way?
> There was no 1st age Carmania.
Okay. I replace my bet on `2nd age Carmania'.
> >At least one city of the DH tripolis, or at a pinch, some other
> >solar city in Peloria which has been lunarised.
> All the cities in Peloria are more or less lunarized. It's the Way.
Indeed. But they aren't all originally Solar, no? I'm looking for one
in which Solar and Lunar aspect coexist, and is either detailed to some
degree and is consistent with what I had in mind, give or take, or one
which is `blank', or 'to be determined'.
> >The White Moon cult. ("But what are these guys _on_?")
> The White Moon, I believe, is more of a belief than a cult.
My understanding too, I was using the term informally, rather than in
the sense of RQ cult. But what _do_ they believe (mythically: we know
they're peaceniks, but that's mainly political)? And do they all believe
much the same thing, or are there lots of competing beliefs/heresies?
> >Pelorian solar military cults. (i.e., not Elmal/Yelmalio.)
> Yelmalio, of course, is not a central Pelorian cult, but is only a
> fringe religion.
Exactly. But did someone mention a Pelorian `analogue'? I thought they
did.
> Yelorna (specialized).
Does this exist at all in Peloria? I'd have thought hardly at all, ties
with Yelmalio, and whatnot.
> I imagine that most Pelorian warriors worship Dendara or Lodril.
My use of Pelorian was mubee misleading here: I meant anyplace in Peloria,
not specifically Pelorian Farmer culture. Principally, in fact, Dara
Happan. How, very roughly, do people think patterns of worship would
have occured in the standing DH army, city guard, militia, etc, and by
extrapolation, how is this translated into their Lunarised successors?
BTW, does anyone know of a decent undigester which will cope with the
RQ-Digest format? And/or, how about rejigging the format so that it _is_
undigestable, and what about automatically generating a preamble listing
subject lines within, and senders? Maybe this would even encourage us to
use _helpful_ subject lines... Nah.
Alex.
---------------------
From: eco...@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann)
Subject: lost authors
Message-ID: <940124212...@cabell.vcu.edu>
Date: 24 Jan 94 21:29:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2887
Sorry to take up everybody's space with this, but I have no recourse.
Clay Luther and Bryan John Maloney, please contact me with a new
email and snailmail/UPS address. Mail to your previous email
addresses bounced today.
So it isn't too much of a waste for everybody else, I thougth I would
nudge the readership with a reminder that I am soliciting articles &
art in general for Codex.
I am specifically looking for WESTERN material for #2, and FICTION
for issue 3. Any material should be strictly Gloranthan.
Thanks!
Mike
>|<
---------------------
From: malco...@aol.com
Subject: Cults at some FTP site!!
Message-ID: <940124171...@aol.com>
Date: 24 Jan 94 22:11:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2888
Quite a while ago someone on the mail list posted a whole lot of cult
information to a ftp site. At the time I did not have full internet access so
I didn't pay much attention. Now that I do have access can someone please
e-mail me the ftp site and the file name(s). Thanks!!
Malcolm
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: j...@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: More on HotB
Message-ID: <940125003...@hp0.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 25 Jan 94 00:39:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2889
More on morons ( Boldhome Lunar High Command ) and other RQ-Con stupf
---------------------
Rune in X-RQ-ID: 2840
>>
>> Very interesting...as the Emperor's personal representative I was
>> going to use the Imperial Warrant to have you all removed from power and
>> appoint General Cassius as governor. Guess I should have appointed
>> myself, instead! 8^>}
You could have appointed the guy who ran Geos. It wouldn't have made
that much of a difference.
Of course, if you had confided in me, I could have provided you
with all of the information necessary to make a wise decision, and
clearly state all charges to be presented on indictments. I had
taken clear notes of all of the improprieties of Gordius, um, uh,
for just such a purpose as, um, uh, informing the authorities of
his treasons and incompetance.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Dawson cleverly disguised as Kirsten K. Nieman in X-RQ-ID: 2844
>>
>> suppose he thought I was a good choice for a tour. What he didn't
>> know is that Harvar has the blood of Sartar through a distant
>> realtive, and also believed that an ancient prophecy suggestted that
>> Harvar might be able to unify Sartar personally.
We probably should have let you. OOPS! Prince Temertain just fell
off of the rampart. Well, Harvar, busy tonight? we need to talk...
>> or another. It seemed pretty clear that HotB was intended for the
>> Lunars to lose. It makes a better story that way, after all.
Even if it wasn't - we would have!
---------------------------------------------
ANDE...@howdy.Princeton.EDU in X-RQ-ID: 2868
>>
>> We had a wonderful time at RuneQuest-Con; I especially enjoyed Home
>> of the Bold. Is there any way of getting the real
>> names to match the characters in HotB (and their e-mail addresses if
>> available) so we can contine to correspond with our fellow
I suggested this to Messrs. Hall and Gadbois as well.
I'm sure it will come out in the book of write-ups, at least.
>> Things the Lunars Did Wrong:
1. Everything.
Well, that's my list.
>> 2. Blatantly obvious spies who shall remain nameless.
Do you mean the blatantly obvious spymasters ( David & myself ), or our
inept toadies?
>> Unfortunately, my GM/husband runs much more efficient Lunars ...
It's not the same without the paperwork. I think my players are going
to start having a far easier time of it. Admittedly, we had a particularly
badly run administration, but it hinted at the hurdles which even members
of a better-run outfit will need to jump.
-----------------------------
David Dunham in X-RQ-ID: 2850
>>
>> >From: j...@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
>> >Home of the Bold: Glorious Incompetence and Magnificent Decadence
>> >
>> >No, I don't mean David Hall and Kevin Jacklyn, when I say incompetent.
>> >I mean MOB and the rest of us running the Lunar High Command. We did
>> >have some flashes of brilliance, such as the great poll tax/vote-rigging
>> >scam of MOB's and Susan's and mine.
>>
>> Hey, give me some of the credit for the Lunar High Command incompetence.
>> While I was pretty good at forcing Orlanth sympathizers to use up their
>> teleports, I was pretty clueless as to what was going on.
No problem, there's plenty left for you and I. We were the ears and eyes
of the Provost. That had a lot to do with the feeling that the whole
Lunar command was wandering around with a white cane.
And also remember - we did this well because you and I were cooperating!
Imagine if we had worked against each other as much as we were supposed!
It will be interesting to see what will be uncovered in reports from
"survivors" and from "found diaries" of others, etc.
Come to think of it, Magnyrd, did you survive? (evil snicker)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| john_...@zycor.lgc.com | Landmark Graphics Corp | 512.292.2325 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: prha...@aol.com
Subject: Humakt HeroQuest?
Message-ID: <940124200...@aol.com>
Date: 25 Jan 94 01:00:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2890
Subject: Humakt HeroQuest
I to was surprised that Greg Stafford could find no Humakti willing to follow
the HeroQuest that guaranteed he'd meet his God. Presumably this quest would
be the culmination of a 'good' Humakti's life. It would seem obvious that to
die during a ritual pursuit of your God's ideals would be to die in that
God's favor. What would be the excuse to refuse such a quest? Sorry Humakt,
I've better things to do. I don't think so.
Would someone please help me understand?
I didn't feel there was enough disagreement about this at RQ Con. Perhaps I
have a different read on what makes a good Humakti. I'd felt an absolute
disregard for death is a prime requisite. Isn't it?
If your God is death personified, fearing death is fearing the power that
makes your God 'special'. If you are a good Humakti then your God holds your
life in his hands. You could easily believe that you could not die without
your God's consent. If you are fated to die, you can't avoid it... and if you
are fated to live, you can't d
ie. The choice is not yours, it is Humakt's.
Help me understand. Where have I gone wrong?
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: Rune...@glorantha.holland.sun.com (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: This account has expired.
Message-ID: <1994012508...@inlet.cis.ufl.edu>
Date: 24 Jan 94 22:21:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2891
You have sent mail to:
Rune...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
with the following as the subject line:
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 25 Jan 1994, part 2
The To: line of your message does not match the userid of the account
receiving this message. This account may exist in a mailing list as:
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This account no longer exists, please take any necessary actions,
such as:
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Thank you,
[This is an automagically generated reply.]
---------------------
From: Rune...@glorantha.holland.sun.com (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Subject: This account has expired.
Message-ID: <1994012508...@inlet.cis.ufl.edu>
Date: 24 Jan 94 22:21:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2892
You have sent mail to:
Rune...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
with the following as the subject line:
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 25 Jan 1994, part 1
The To: line of your message does not match the userid of the account
receiving this message. This account may exist in a mailing list as:
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This account no longer exists, please take any necessary actions,
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Thank you,
[This is an automagically generated reply.]
---------------------
From: M...@SAVAX750.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK (Mystic Musk Ox)
Subject: cult info for ftp'ing
Message-ID: <940125124...@Sun.COM>
Date: 25 Jan 94 09:45:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2893
>Quite a while ago someone on the mail list posted a whole lot of cult
>information to a ftp site. At the time I did not have full internet access so
>I didn't pay much attention. Now that I do have access can someone please
>e-mail me the ftp site and the file name(s). Thanks!!
>Malcolm
I would also like to see this information! I know of the stuff on
soda.berkeley.edu (Hippoi, Gyzar, Golden Bow)
thanks,
Mark
---------------------
From: JAR...@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Mostai & Malkioni
Message-ID: <940125124...@Sun.COM>
Date: 25 Jan 94 10:22:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2894
Mostali are not short bearded Malkioni!
Recently people have been asking whether there are similarities between
Mostali and Malkioni society. Now it is easy to understand why this
question is asked as to an outside observer this appears to be the case.
However, when they are examined in detail the two societies are seen to
be profoundly different. Malkioni force people into a rigid caste
structure by virtue of who their parents were without any regard for
their talents or desires. Dwarfs are manufactured for a specific caste
and optimised to carry out its functions. Dwarfs are also programmed
to get their maximum enjoyment when successfully carrying out and
completing their castes work. Thus Mostali society is better ordered
with less internal friction that the forced Malkioni construct which
may well be a poor imitation of the true harmony of Mostali society.
The God Learners believed that Mostali use sorcery and they have spread
that belief throughout Glorantha. The Mostali have not challenged this
view as it is advantageous for the other races to be keep misinformed.
True Mostali use a complicated system of mechanics which appears to the
ignorant outsider to be similar to sorcery, however mechanics concentrates
more on preservation and repair than on long range destructive effects.
In short mechanics is strongly tied to the Stasis Rune where as Sorcery
is tied to the Law rune. While the functions of these runes may have
been confused by the God Learners even the most simple Orlanthi carl knows
that Stasis is the natural preservation of order and Law is a rigid set of
rules which forces people to conform. This is illustrated in the different
runes associated with Lhankor Mhy (sometimes said to be associated with
Mostal) in different places. In Dragon Pass he is associated with Stasis
and Truth whereas in the West he is associated with Stasis and Law.
Of course, the above only covers true (non-apostate, non-heretic) Mostali
and not those who have strayed from there appointed work-tasks. These
unfortunates are the result of corrupted programming caused by Chaos and
are to be pitied and tollerated, until the World Machine is repaired and
they can be reprogrammed in the absence of the friction which has caused
their imperfect condition. Due to their malfunctions these defective
dwarfs are unable to use Mechanics and so most of them resort to using
sorcery as it is the most similar magic to that which they are unable
to utilize. Of course, the fact that apostate and heretic dwarfs use
sorcery reinforces the views of the ignorant and further serves to conceal
the true natural of Mostali magic.
-----
Lewis
-----
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <940125171...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 25 Jan 94 05:10:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2895
re: Gloranthan names
Unlike many world-makers (M.A.R. Barker, J.R.R. Tolkien, etc.),
Greg's interest has never been in linguistics, and he has no lengthy
tedious dictionaries of Aldryami, or Darktongue. Basically, he comes
up with names as he sees fit, in a fairly disorganized fashion. I've
noticed a tendency for chaos names to be clumsy and hard to
pronounce, and troll names tend to be alliterative, but I think
Greg's "technique" is to see if a name sounds "right" to him. When
working on the all-Gloranthan box (which magically transformed itself
into the all-Genertela box, leaving the Seas and Pamaltela for later
-- I hope), I tried to organize as many names as possible into like
groups. But 'twas impossible for most of Genertela, for which I blame
the God-Learner influence.
someone (ngl?) writes:
>Only problem with ignite without special backup is that you get shot
>twice before these guys come into range. More often if they just
>stay outside standard magic and thrown missile range...
Remember that practitioners of Lunar Magic get an enhanced range on
their spirit magic -- don't think they don't use it.
>No Fantasy or pre-firearms warrior would ever have thought of
>covering an advance or retreat with small missile fire (bows,
>slings).
Looky here -- I can't speak for Fantasy warriors -- they have little
reference to the real world. A D&D warrior easily takes on ten times
his number of less-skilled opponents and falls 30 meters without
crippling injury. Didn't we turn to RQ to avoid this kind of
unrealistic crapola? Pre-firearms warriors used missiles to cover
advances and retreats all the time -- they just did it in a different
manner. The Romans always flung their pila before charging -- the
defenders were thus broken up and confused for just a second, then
the Romans hit 'em. In the same way, the Vikings used thrown axes
before charging, and the Mongols used missile fire to make opponents
spread out, thinning their ranks before the lancers charged.
The Crimean War example was perhaps not the best, because it was
mostly a siege -- at which missile expenditure/hit-bad-guys ratios
skyrocket. (During the Civil War, it didn't take any 5000 shots to
hit your target -- more like 100).
>the desired result is not the kill, but the temporary crippling of
>the opponent, to use as slaves or sacrifices or to hold for ransom
>afterwards.
A "temporarily crippled" opponent generally died in an ancient
battle. The killed/wounded ratio was the reverse of the modern one,
except when fighting purely bow-armed foes. (The U.S. Cavalry in the
Indian Wars found that 1 in 14 men wounded by arrows died, as I
recall. Also, most fatalities were guys hit by multiple arrows.)
But the majority of ancient battles were fought to kill the enemy,
NOT to take slaves. The war might have been to gain slaves or
conquests -- but the battles are still designed to beat the foe in
the best manner known. Think of the wars of the Assyrians, the
Byzantines, the Punic Wars, Tamerlane's dreadful invasion of Delhi --
they weren't half-assed attempts to cripple guys, but all-out
destruction on a scale rarely reached even in modern war. The
Athens-Sparta wars weren't fought for prisoners, but for complex
political reasons. I feel that the Aztec Flower Wars are quite an
exceptional development in the history of warfare.
>Most actual killing occurred when the battle was decided.
It is true that most killing occurred when the battle was already
decided, but the purposeful killing -- the killing that mattered to
the battle's outcome -- occurred when it was being fought. Once the
important killing was won or lost, the huge bag of guys you got to
kill in the retreat was a bonus -- your reward for winning the
battle.
>I like to think of them as similar to Scythian or Persian knights,
>quite heavily armored and equipped with sabres, lances ... as well.
I think of them as Mongols, Huns, or Scythians. Not so much Persians.
While I'm sure there's plenty of lancers amongst the Pentans, they
aren't jacks of all trades. Though an archer might have a spear or
sword as back-up, he's still mainly an archer.
>[re: the Market spell] There is no damage mentioned,
The rules say, "identical to a Warding 1 in most respects". If you
read the Travels of Biturian Varosh it's clear that the Market spell
can hurt or kill you, if lots are stacked together with Create Great
Market. I know that I and Greg have always played that it does
damage, but obviously every campaign is privileged to make its own
decisions about spell interpretation.
>I like to think that 100 part time worshippers produce as much mana
>as the sacrifice of one point of permanent POW, if rules values are
>required.
I'm sold. Until my players try to abuse this rule.
>The only way the horse retained anything of fire is its temperament,
>even according to the Hippoi myth.
I, on the other hand, think that the horse is still the Beast of
Fire, just as the Bull is the Beast of Air, and the Pig the Beast of
Earth. So there. Nyah.
>>I have read a text (I think in Troll Pak) which stated that the 1st
>>Age Theyalans overthrew the horse nomads of Peloria with the help
>>of... Ralian non-Sun-worshipping horse riders. These latter can
>>only be the Galanini.
>There can be plenty of horse-riding non-Sun worshipers. Tarsh exiles
>ride horses. Malkioni ride horses.
>>I was inaccurate again: I meant horse nomads.
Yes, but did the Trollpak text refer to nomads or just riders?
There's as yet no evidence that the Galanini are non-Sun-Worshipping.
In my own campaign, they honor and respect the Sun and related cults,
but most of them worship Galan, Hyalor, or Hunter.
Okay. Here's my reasons for believing that the Praxians are not
descendents of Hsunchen.
1) No Hsunchen eat their cult animals. They are kin, not prey.
2) Hsunchen magic turns you into your animal. No Praxian magic even
remotely resembles this.
3) Ancestor Worship is NOT the same as Hsunchen worship, and in fact
is quite different in both form and beliefs.
4) Hsunchen believe that they are descendents of their animals. The
Praxians very clearly are not. They do provide worship to an
Ancestress of their Herds, but it is to ensure the herds' safety and
prosperity -- propitiatory worship.
5) Hsunchen is a religion, not a racial type. IF (and only IF) the
Praxians were once Hsunchen way back before the Gods War, they are
certainly no longer such in any degree. No Hsunchen would recognize
them as co-religionists.
6) I deny the force of some of your examples. The Hsunchen venerate
local forces of nature, as do the Praxians. But so does everyone
else, from the Theyalans to the Oslir River people.
The Praxians have the Paps. The Basmoli have Hrelar Amali.
The trolls have a Castle of Lead. Are they Hsunchen?
So, how'd I do? Did I penetrate the flame-proof suit, or were my
arguments too specious?
>I really have problems with the reasons why Eiritha would not allow
>horses in Prax.
Well, obviously it's not really Eiritha who's failing to allow horses
in Prax, since the Pent nomads worship Eiritha, and they ride
horses. However, Eiritha is used by the Pentans only to benefit their
cattle herds, not their horses.
>The Pamaltelan urban societies are either coastal, i.e. God Learner
>tainted, or extinct, stemming from the Artmali Empire. (Fonrit
>actually qualifies for both.) These pre-darkness Lunars had a
>culture little is published about. The Doraddi have only recently
>developed city-like structures, the wagon cities of the Kresh.
This is true, but may be a tiny bit misleading for those who are not
as versed in Pamaltelan history. Pamaltelan cities stem from several
sources. The cities of Umathela and Fonrit were founded in the God
Time, but were taken over by God Learners in the Second Age. The
cities along the coasts of Elamle and Onlaks mostly come from the
Second or Third Age, but were originally not God Learner (though they
traded with them). A whole lot of cities were founded in the interior
of the Doraddi lands during the Second Age -- this was the time of
the Six-Legged Empire.
Note that the Doraddi do NOT regard themselves as not-yet-urban
primitives. They point out that in the Godtime, the Artmali Empire
ruled their land. In the Second Age, the Six-Legged Empire ruled
their land. They claim that civilization is the original state of
mankind but is bad for the soul. They have chosen to go on to the
next stage of development -- the happy nomad (i.e., Noble Red Man
type stuff). They point out that in the Golden Age, everything was
static and dull -- and civilized. Basically, they look at the
development of mankind backwards from the common Genertelan view.
Those few Pamaltelans that know a little about Genertela also point
out that the same cultural development works there -- look at the
Prax nomads, advanced now far "beyond" the civilized Golden Folk.
The "wagon cities" of the Kresh are temporary constructs that
dissolve after a season or so, to reform in a new place.
re: Malkioni and Mostali
I'd like to request that everyone using the word "Malkioni" when they
really mean "Brithini" shape up! The Malkioni aren't opposed to
reproduction, only the Brithini. The Malkioni aren't soulless, only
the Brithini. The Malkioni aren't big jerks, only the Brithini.
Sandy Petersen
---------------------
From: eco...@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann)
Subject: Ferguson seeks a city
Message-ID: <940125180...@cabell.vcu.edu>
Date: 25 Jan 94 18:09:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2896
Alex Fergeson:
It seems to me that you are probably lacking the Genertela Book. If
so, thos won't be much help.
If you do have it, then look at the description of Red Fish City. it
is up in the northwestern section of the empire, near Carmania, I
think. I don't have my books here right now, so I can't check.
In any case, I believe it was founded by the Conquering Daughter, or
one of the Inspirations. She did it specifically to show the snotty
Dara Happans that a good metropolis didn't have to be organized along
solar lines. The city prospered, but has become Solarized anyway.
However, this suntan is a later addition to the city, rather than a
ancient fact burned into the psyches of the founders.
It also sounds to me like a copy of the Glorious Reascent of Yelm
would be very handy for you. Call the Wizard's Attic for how to get
one, or else the Chaosium. If you have $25 to spare, that is.
Mike Dawson >|<
---------------------
From: SYS_RSH%PV...@HOBBES.CCA.CR.ROCKWELL.COM (Scott Haney, AFDS770 Functional Test X2069)
Subject: Looking for Information
Message-ID: <01H83XUY8...@HOBBES.CCA.CR.ROCKWELL.COM>
Date: 25 Jan 94 23:22:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2897
Greetings.
I'm a RuneQuestor from way back, but due to a large lack of 1) time
(theatre, work, theatre work) and 2) lack of players with
imaginations, I haven't played for a while.
Suddenly, I discover that the game is alive and well! I'd thought it
dead, since my local game shops don't seem to carry RuneQuest
materials.
Can I get a list of who *does* carry RQ, or at least a mail order
source? I'd like to get caught up. (I'm only current through the
addition of sorcery...)
Scott
___ __
/__/|__ Scott Haney, Insight Industries __/_/|
|__|/_/|__ Group Leader, AFDS 770 Functional Test Team _/_|__||
|_|___|/_/|__ sys_rsh%AF...@hobbes.cca.cr.rockwell.com __/_|____||
|___|____|/_/|__ __/_|____|__||
|_|___|_____|/_/|_____________________________________/_|_____|____||
|___|___|__|___|/__/___/___/___/___/___/___/___/___/_|_____|____|__||
|_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|____|/
Laying the foundations of the world's best avionics
---------------------
From: ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 25 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <1994012601...@panix.com>
Date: 25 Jan 94 15:37:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2898
Someone who doesn't sign his/her messages writes about similarities
between Hsunchen and Praxians:
R>The Hsunchen worship the Hunter as main source of meat.
>Praxians worship Waha for slain herd beasts, Hunter for slain game.
You are defining "worshipping a source of food" as a sign of Hsunchen
ancestry? So worshipping Ernalda or the Barley Mother is also a sign of
beast-man ways?
R>The Hsunchen propitiate or venere predominant local forces of nature.
>The Praxians propitiate Storm Bull, Gagarth, and they worship Storm Bull,
>Zola Fel...
Everyone except the Brithini and their ilk worships local nature
forces.
R>The Hsunchen worship a plethora of local spirits, summoned by the shamans
>at holy places.
>The Praxians worship a plethora of local spirits, summoned by the shamans
>at the oasis altars in Prax. (e.g. Frog Woman)
Every primitive culture does this. Are all primitives Hsunchen?
R>Both practice ancestor worship to some extent.
So do the Kralori, the Orlanthi, the Pamaltelans...in fact, most
cultures. Are trolls Hsunchen?
R>Both consider outsiders as less than human.
No, they don't.
R>Telmori consider their wolves as full members of their tribe. Praxians
>don't do so, since Waha's covenant made the herd beasts unintelligent.
"They're different, so that proves they're the same!"
R>Praxians were active participants in the Gods War.
>OK, we lack reports about the Hsunchen activities then. Given the
>Basmoli Empire in Dawn Age Tanisor, they did, too.
*Everyone* was an active participant in the Gods War. Haven't you
been intiated into the I Fought We Won mystery?
R>The Praxians have a solid holy place in the Paps. (They inherited it from
>the Golden Age people).
>The Basmoli erected Hrelar Amali. (They developed this themselves, or had
>Godtime experience with this. They built it themselves.)
Everyone including the baboons had a big city during the God Time.
R>The Praxians worshipped a whole pantheon in Godtime. These gods are dead
>now.
>According to GL taxonomy, there exists a whole pantheon of beast ancestors
>who died during Godtime. Plus the Hsunchen acknowledge the local earth
>powers (proto-Grain goddesses, like Balazar Vyrope, or the goddess' aspects
>in tRathorell;a, Ramalia, etc.
Everyone acknowledges local earth powers except deliberate atheists
like the Brithini. So?
R>Now where except in the covenant introduced because of the special power
>depletion in the Praxian chapparal do you see the great difference? Master
>Hunters and Khans are not that different.
All Rune Lords would have similarities. So?
>...And in the
>Pavis Common Knowledge booklet there is this picture in the wastes, where
>lots of beasts (including the zebra, a beast only quite recently adopted into
>the covenant) paid homage to Genert, a very conscious and intelligent act.
Zebras existed in Prax in Genert's time. They were small and useless
to men, but they existed. The founder of the Zebra tribe used
heroquesting to create larger rideable zebras.
R>I really have problems with the reasons why Eiritha would not allow horses
>in Prax. She did so all the time between the Battles of Necklace Horse and
>Alavan Argay, and ever since Derek Pol Joni retrieved the Black Net, the
>horses are back in Prax, and thrive.
Accepted, or was unable to expel?
R>Is this all beast rider propaganda? The story about Joraz Kyrem's creation
RQ Daily Discussion List
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the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
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---------------------
From: j...@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: Stirrups, Dara Happa and Humakt
Message-ID: <940126085...@hp0.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 26 Jan 94 08:51:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2902
Though not in the same sentence.
-----------------------
Joerg in X-RQ-ID: 2885
>>
>> Stirrups were an invention of the great plains, and the Praxian lancers
>> need them as much as the horse nomads'. (Who was the hero who introduced
>> them?)
A very good question, which prompts one of my own:
Do they have stirrups? Who does have stirrups?
This only really matters for those using swinging weapons, as stirrups did
little for the lancer ( especially light ones ) and bowmen.
Let's see, who = ( Lunars, Fronelans, Seshnelans, Zebra Riders!, ... ),
or so the art in WoG implies. Others?
>> Sorry if my insistence on Celtic Orlanthi or other parallels lead to the
>> impression the cultures are parallels. They aren't, only some people like
>> Nick Brooke and me find it convenient to picture certain traits in analogs.
It's a useful tool, but we need to be careful with it. If everything is
described w.r.t. an earthly analog, we are losing a good deal of the flavor
of Glorantha. That's why I usually try to present each facet of a culture
separately, if using analogs. ( Hence insistence on answers more than "Like
the Egyptians" - sorry Nick ).
-----------------------------------
al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk in X-RQ-ID: 2886
>>
>> Indeed. But they aren't all originally Solar, no? I'm looking for one
>> in which Solar and Lunar aspect coexist, and is either detailed to some
According to The GLorious Reascent of Yelm ( Solar mythology - if you couldn't
guess ), the original 10 cities of Dara Happa were quite Solar.
>> > Yelmalio, of course, is not a central Pelorian cult, but is only a
>>
>> Exactly. But did someone mention a Pelorian `analogue'? I thought they
>> did.
Antirius has been accused of being a Dara Happan analog of Yelmalio.
There *are* some myth patterns in common, but there are as certainly
many which are not.
>> > Yelorna (specialized).
>>
>> Does this exist at all in Peloria? I'd have thought hardly at all, ties
>> with Yelmalio, and whatnot.
But ties with Pole Star, and the other Star captains make it make some
sense. It's not a big cult, by anyone's reckoning, but it does exist.
I believe I remember that there is/are (a) military unit(s) of Yelorna-
worshippers.
-----------------------------------
prha...@aol.com in X-RQ-ID: 2890
>>
>> I didn't feel there was enough disagreement about this at RQ Con. Perhaps I
>> have a different read on what makes a good Humakti. I'd felt an absolute
>> disregard for death is a prime requisite. Isn't it?
I missed this discussion at the Con, but there is one thing you may be
a bit off on. I don't think it's "disregard for death", but instead great
reverence for death, which is the Humakti hallmark.
As you went on to state, ( reworded ) when fated to die, die, when not, don't.
This doesn't mean that any of them look forward to death. It is the heaviest
*duty* of this already fairly heavily duty-bound cult.
Also don't forget that not every cult-member is really all that devout.
Doubtless there are some who joined because of peer, or other social
pressure.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| john_...@zycor.lgc.com | Landmark Graphics Corp | 512.292.2325 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Vormain colour-magic et al
Message-ID: <940126092...@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 26 Jan 94 11:29:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2903
First
Thank you everybody who has supplied answers for my questions on
the far east of Glorantha.
Second
On Vormainian colour magic. It seems I'm not the only one interested.
Sandy P replies to Iza Young's question:
>a) Wait till my house is built and I can gather together my records,
>(b) make up your own, or (c) badger me until I try to put together a
>pathetic remnant of them from memory.
(a) might take some time? As I'm not going to use RQ rules in my
campaign I'll have do some (b) anyway. I don't want to 'badger' Sandy
unnecessarily but a rough guideline (c) of the colour-magic would be
greatly appreciated. Something on the line:
Green stands for ... and ..., used by the ... type people.
Blue stands for ...
etc
would do fine for me. Do I score any points for saying please more than
once? Please...
Third
RQ con sounds like a terrific event. I wonder if we'll ever have anything
like it here in the norteastern outskirts of the civilized world (Scandinavia).
/Nils W
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Daily.
Message-ID: <940126094...@keppel.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 26 Jan 94 09:49:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2904
Mike Dawson:
> It seems to me that you are probably lacking the Genertela Book. If
> so, thos won't be much help.`
Nope. The Genertela books lacks information, though.
> If you do have it, then look at the description of Red Fish City. it
> is up in the northwestern section of the empire, near Carmania, I
> think. I don't have my books here right now, so I can't check.
It's in Dara Happa, it's Lunarised, but it's not originally Solar. But the
problem isn't finding a city which fits my very vague bill: it's finding out
either a) any existing data on it; or b) that _no_ data exists on it.
> It also sounds to me like a copy of the Glorious Reascent of Yelm
> would be very handy for you. Call the Wizard's Attic for how to get
> one, or else the Chaosium. If you have $25 to spare, that is.
What's this? The Chaosium Solar Monstrous Carbuncle is out? Is it brill?
Does it suxrox? Does it help with my Solar Ponderings?
Me. > "They believe that Orlanth _is_ the Invisible God."
Paul Reilly:
> My version of IO agrees with this: Orlanth is the Breath of the Creator. It
> was he who brought the revelations of Solace to Malkion and Joy to Hrestol.
Perhaps not inconsistent, but they seem like distinct viewpoints to me.
The Lunars recognise the Creator and Orlanth, after a fashion, but don't want
people to _worship_ them, for heavens sake. Perish the thought. Lunar
dogma distinguishes between `the Creator' and `the Invisible God', for one
thing, not to mention attempting to stamp out Orlanth worship entirely.
Personally, I'm not sure _anyone_ likes the IO lot, Lunars, Malkioni or
Orlanthi. And note that `ordinary' Orlanthi worship occurs in Carmania, too.
PR> We know that the Count of Worion encourages this cult among his
PR> knights; it seems to me that he would get stepped on by the Lunars
PR> if the cult did not at least pay lip service to the Lunar Way.
I'm here tempted to recall the maxim, "I don't have to be faster than the
Crimson Bat, just faster than you." The Empire has lots to worry about
at present without quibbling with a few heresies in Western Oronin.
Given the description of Invisible Orlanth as an `upstart' cult in _G:..._,
I'm tempted to beieve this isn't a cult seeking to be `integrated' into
the Lunar pantheon. But then again, if it's true that any sufficiently
large organisation contains completely contradictory opinions on any given
topic, maybe the cult is arguing about this even as we speak...
Carmania Trivia Question: why on earth is the cult of Mastakos a state-
sponsored cult for nobles?
PR> Yara Aranis:
PR> Remember that her mother is Gorgorma
Duh! The Demoness is Gorgorma! Now you all tell me. ;-/
Hence the answer to my question is a): she's worshipped by Pelorian peasants
when they're Being Oppressed, which certainly makes her an Enemy Diety of
the Pentans...
Another lot of Fire Worshippers:
The gods worshipped by the Teshnans are aspects/alter egos of the `standard'
solar pantheon, right? So what about Calyz? Is this an(other) aspect of
Lodril? Solf's Nice Twin, as it were? If so, it conjures up some interesting
Object Identity type questions. If not, who is he? A diety unknown elsewhere?
A Lowfires aggregate? And who on earth is Furalor?
Spot the Celt, or: Celtic factoids about Sartar.
Bagpipes. Woad. Some other stuff, in the `vaguely compatible' rather than
`highly distinctive', such as social organisation (i.e. Small kingdoms,
clans/tribes) cultural weapons, agriculture (hill farming). Not very similar
religious, other than being Storm worshippers, and the celtic countires being
Wet and Windy. ;-) They're much more Norse-like, if you ask me.
Alex Ferguson.
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Prax in Flames
Message-ID: <H.ea.6eA...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 26 Jan 94 11:26:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2905
I knew that messing with Prax would bring a lively response ;->
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2895
>someone (ngl?) writes:
That's me from my Unversity account. Tien bless X400! (and eat it...)
>Remember that practitioners of Lunar Magic get an enhanced range on
>their spirit magic -- don't think they don't use it.
How many illuminated Redlander phalangists do you expect to have in the
file? Illumination is a prerequisitive for getting Lunar Magic (joining
the Red Goddess directly), and we are told as well that the most Lunar
citizens don't.
>Okay. Here's my reasons for believing that the Praxians are not
>descendents of Hsunchen.
>1) No Hsunchen eat their cult animals. They are kin, not prey.
The Praxians wouldn't either, if they didn't have to. They prefer to eat
foreign herd beasts, anyway.
(This is somehow weakened by the fact that the Pure Horse Pentans
exclusively eat horse meat. But then I didn't compare them to Hsunchen.)
>2) Hsunchen magic turns you into your animal. No Praxian magic even
>remotely resembles this.
Fix/Release INT does the trick, don't you think?
If one did change into a herd beast, one would cross the border of the
Covenant and become eatable. A good reason to forget these spells, isn't it?
>3) Ancestor Worship is NOT the same as Hsunchen worship, and in fact
>is quite different in both form and beliefs.
Could you detail that, please? I take it that Hsunchen do worship their
ancestors along with their totem beast.
And don't Reindeer, Deer, Elk or Boar Hsunchen eat and hunt their totem
animals? Don't Sofali eat part of the eggs of their turtles? Ok, noone but
trolls or the Kralori would eat dog, wolf or lion.
>4) Hsunchen believe that they are descendents of their animals. The
>Praxians very clearly are not. They do provide worship to an
>Ancestress of their Herds, but it is to ensure the herds' safety and
>prosperity -- propitiatory worship.
To me, it looks like the praxians see their herds and themselves descended
from the same ancestors, but divided by the Covenant. According to the
genealogy chart in CoP p.31 the Ancestors of the People are the offspring
of the Protectresses and the Founders.
Also, Eiritha is listed as daughter of Hykim, and my bet is that Storm
Bull's mother is Mikyh, or one of her daughters, e.g. Lofak.
Perfect Hsunchen ancestry, isn't it?
>5) Hsunchen is a religion, not a racial type. IF (and only IF) the
>Praxians were once Hsunchen way back before the Gods War, they are
>certainly no longer such in any degree. No Hsunchen would recognize
>them as co-religionists.
I agree that no Hsunchen would recognize them. Nor would they the citzens
of Basim in Ralios, who are former Basmoli. Both they and the Praxians left
the Hsunchen way when accepting a variation of their lives, e.g. city life,
or Waha's covenant.
>6) I deny the force of some of your examples. The Hsunchen venerate
>local forces of nature, as do the Praxians. But so does everyone
>else, from the Theyalans to the Oslir River people.
Do they do so via their shamans?
At least they aren't different in these regards.
> The Praxians have the Paps. The Basmoli have Hrelar Amali.
>The trolls have a Castle of Lead. Are they Hsunchen?
Do the trolls practise Peaceful Cut? Are they related to any animal? (It
might actually be fun to meet a trollish group of insect Hsunchen, yes...)
>So, how'd I do? Did I penetrate the flame-proof suit, or were my
>arguments too specious?
Better than mine, some. Still, I need to be convinced.
>>I really have problems with the reasons why Eiritha would not allow
>>horses in Prax.
>Well, obviously it's not really Eiritha who's failing to allow horses
>in Prax, since the Pent nomads worship Eiritha, and they ride
>horses. However, Eiritha is used by the Pentans only to benefit their
>cattle herds, not their horses.
But horses can subside and thrive in Prax. Commonly spread theory/propaganda
suggests they can't.
Carl Fink in X-RQ-ID: 2898
>Someone who doesn't sign his/her messages writes about similarities
>between Hsunchen and Praxians:
See above. It was not out of fear!
>R>The Hsunchen worship the Hunter as main source of meat.
> >Praxians worship Waha for slain herd beasts, Hunter for slain game.
> You are defining "worshipping a source of food" as a sign of Hsunchen
>ancestry? So worshipping Ernalda or the Barley Mother is also a sign of
>beast-man ways?
If worshipped with Food Song, yes, if harvested en masse (e.g. with a
sickle or scythe) without directing a prayer to their source at that moment,
no. What is important is that the killer cares for the prey. Civilized
cultures like e.g. the Skanthi have lost this closeness to the prey and
don't qualify any more.
>R>The Hsunchen propitiate or venere predominant local forces of nature.
> >The Praxians propitiate Storm Bull, Gagarth, and they worship Storm Bull,
> >Zola Fel...
> Everyone except the Brithini and their ilk worships local nature
>forces.
Do the Easterners? How does that look like?
Do the Hrestoli and pure Rokari?
Ok, the theists and naturalists both do. I count the Praxians among the
naturalists (CoT definition).
>R>The Hsunchen worship a plethora of local spirits, summoned by the shamans
> >at holy places.
> >The Praxians worship a plethora of local spirits, summoned by the shamans
> >at the oasis altars in Prax. (e.g. Frog Woman)
> Every primitive culture does this. Are all primitives Hsunchen?
On Glorantha, I'm inclined to say yes for humans. As Sandy pointed out,
the Doraddi aren't really primitive, and that leaves the more primitive
Orlanthi who don't till the earth (degenerated, but not really Primitives
as per rules definition), the accepted Hsunchen Telmori, Basmoli etc., the
slightly doubtful Votanki from Balazar might be seen as Dog-Hsunchen with
a mite of civilization, and then there are the Praxians. My point.
>R>Both practice ancestor worship to some extent.
> So do the Kralori, the Orlanthi, the Pamaltelans...in fact, most
>cultures. Are trolls Hsunchen?
Do the above mentioned tie their lives to one specific sort of animal?
(If you mention Orlanthi cat familiars: were they Cat Hsunchen before
Umath's kin took over?)
>R>Both consider outsiders as less than human.
> No, they don't.
Ask the Morokanth, and reread the Telmor write-up.
But then, so do certain Malkioni (Galvosti), the Yelmists, and most
other cultures.
>R>Telmori consider their wolves as full members of their tribe. Praxians
> >don't do so, since Waha's covenant made the herd beasts unintelligent.
> "They're different, so that proves they're the same!"
No. The covenant is the thing that made them different, IMNSHO. I left
out the "not any more".
>R>Praxians were active participants in the Gods War.
> >OK, we lack reports about the Hsunchen activities then. Given the
> >Basmoli Empire in Dawn Age Tanisor, they did, too.
> *Everyone* was an active participant in the Gods War. Haven't you
>been intiated into the I Fought We Won mystery?
I meant battles preceding I Fought We Won, like the one in which Storm
Bull slew the Devil, which rages on as the Eternal Battle.
>R>The Praxians have a solid holy place in the Paps. (They inherited it from
> >the Golden Age people).
> >The Basmoli erected Hrelar Amali. (They developed this themselves, or had
> >Godtime experience with this. They built it themselves.)
> Everyone including the baboons had a big city during the God Time.
Did the Telmori, Pralori, Damali, Sofali, Uncolings, Kivitti etc.?
The Doraddi? (To Sandy: were they part of the Artmali Empire?)
>R>The Praxians worshipped a whole pantheon in Godtime. These gods are dead
> >now.
> >According to GL taxonomy, there exists a whole pantheon of beast ancestors
> >who died during Godtime. Plus the Hsunchen acknowledge the local earth
> >powers (proto-Grain goddesses, like Balazar Vyrope, or the goddess' aspects
> >in tRathorell;a, Ramalia, etc.
> Everyone acknowledges local earth powers except deliberate atheists
>like the Brithini. So?
So this doesn't make Praxian Earth worship special. One point to me.
>R>Now where except in the covenant introduced because of the special power
> >depletion in the Praxian chapparal do you see the great difference? Master
> >Hunters and Khans are not that different.
> All Rune Lords would have similarities. So?
What other Rune Lords need to know Peaceful Cut? What other Rune Lords need
to hunt something to attain their status? Note, too, that both Master
Hunters and Khans must obey the women's cults (Hearth Mother, or Eiritha)
in things concerning their dominance (like the herds).
> Zebras existed in Prax in Genert's time. They were small and useless
>to men, but they existed. The founder of the Zebra tribe used
>heroquesting to create larger rideable zebras.
Not what I meant. All animals could speak in Godtime. The Praxian herdbeasts
lost their ability already during the Darkness.
>R>I really have problems with the reasons why Eiritha would not allow horses
> >in Prax. She did so all the time between the Battles of Necklace Horse and
> >Alavan Argay, and ever since Derek Pol Joni retrieved the Black Net, the
> >horses are back in Prax, and thrive.
> Accepted, or was unable to expel?
If the thesis was true that horses can't survive in Prax because Eiritha
doesn't feed them, what else would they find to eat? If Eiritha cannot
withhold her bounty from certain intruders, can these be
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <940126153...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 26 Jan 94 03:36:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2906
Alex Ferguson sent me a list of questions on Pelorian cults, and as I
started answering them, I thought the rest of youse guys might like
to see the results, so you could attack my views vigorously in print.
Alex is quite exercised over just what the cult of LUNAR JUSTICE
would be. IMO, not everyone has such a cult. More to the point, who
settles court cases. I have three separate suggestions.
To keep with the Lunar sense of balance -- how about Danfive
Xaron, the only criminal among the mothers?
Or how about using one of the Lunar Examiners?
Or alternatively cases could be decided by a council of 7
judges (ostensibly representing each of the Seven Mothers, and
ideally having a rep from each cult).
Perhaps each of these three systems is used for different
types of cases. For instance, Danfive Xaron might act as judge for
criminal cases, the Lunar Examiners for ecclesiastical cases (common
in a theocracy like the Lunar Empire), and civil cases by the 7-judge
council.
Of course, local systems of justice would prevail wherever
they were already strong.
PELORIAN MILITARY CULTS
LODRIL: it's not an organized military cult, but no more are Orlanth
or Waha and plenty of full-time warriors worship them. I mention him
because I believe he is the single most numerous cult among Pelorian
soldiers. And he's not so bad -- he teaches Heal, Endurance, and
Disrupt, all good military spells, and he even has a few good warlike
Rune spells: Command Salamander, Firespear, and Shield.
POLE STAR: I think he's recognized and worshiped in every civilized
Yelm area and some uncivilized (though there, he may only be
contacted as a spirit cult). I'm certain that each of the Tripolis
would have a temple.
GOLDEN BOW: he is a separate and distinct cult. He is an associate
cult of Yelm, not a subcult. He is not Noble-only. Of course, he's a
lot more popular among the Pent nomads. I imagine that only career
soldiers worship him in Peloria, making his cult rather like that of
Yanafal Tarnils.
YELORNA: Alex wonders whether she is worshiped at all in Peloria,
given her ties to Yelmalio and all. She is a "spark" cult, one of the
many tiny dots of light that stayed lit during the Great Darkness. I
don't imagine her cult is strong at all in Peloria, but around the
fringes, where there are unicorns, I would expect to have an
occasional temple of virginal unicorn-riders. Certainly
sky-worshiping virgins are likelier to be respected in Peloria than
in Prax.
re: DAYZATAR
[Alex, upon learning that any Chief Priest can worship Dayzatar,
points out]
> Hm. Isn't Solar rebirth dogma supposed to say you can only be
>_born_ into the Dayzatar cult, having been a virtuous Yelm
>worshipper in the one before?
Sort of. Like many other "previous existence" rules, it works out as
circular logic. You see, if you are a good Lodril worshiper, next
life you get to be a Yelm guy. If you're a good Yelm guy, in your
next life you get to be the rank of person who can become a Dayzatar
monk. For instance, if you are a Yelmalio Light Priest and retire to
Dayzatar, the elderly priests nod their heads sagely and say, "Ah,
you were a Yelm lord in your last life, thus blessed and predestined
to achieve this rank in your current. No doubt this is your last
incarnation."
You may claim this is rather specious reasoning -- I concur. There is
some evidence that in the First Age, Dayzatar monks WERE hereditary
only. But now the status is available to any good priest. No doubt
the liberalizing influence of the New Council had something to do
with this.
Earlier references have referred to Y.A.'s mother as the Pentan
"Goddess of
Tormented Death" and as a "hell demon" ( Hist. of the Lunar Empire:
Third Wane ).
John Medway whines re: Yara Aranis's parentage:
>Is this a refinement of the old info? (i.e. Gorgorma *is* the
>Pentan's "Goddess of Tormented Death"). Or is this a Greg?
I was with Greg when we worked out the nature of the Pelorian Earth
religion, and it was clear to us then that Gorgorma had to be the
demon that mothered Yara Aranis. She was as yet unnamed in the early
descriptions of Yara Aranis, but when we saw the missing slot in the
Pelorian religion (hmm. "We need a Malign Earth Goddess to keep the
solar jerks in line."), the connection to Yara Aranis was obvious. If
that be a "Greg" so be it.
Sandy
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 26 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940126213...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 26 Jan 94 21:31:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2907
Paul Reilly here.
Comments on Hsunchen / Praxians.
Sandy writes:
>1) No Hsunchen eat their cult animals. They are kin, not prey.
I am kind of disappointed. As far as I know, I have never seen this in a
published source. THe reason that this makes me sad is that we like to use
a Rathori adaptation of the tremendous Ainu (and other) bear-ritual, where
the bear is an honored guest at a feast where he is also the main course.
It's really great from a ritual point of view, with the bear's head getting
fed the first portion of himself, etc. He is thanked for providing the meat for
the feast. Judging by evidence from caves in Central Europe, this sort of
rituyal may go back to the era of the cave bear (40,000 BP).
>3) Ancestor Worship is NOT the same as Hsunchen worship, and in fact
>is quite different in both form and beliefs.
Agree. DId someone say they were alike? I missed this.
On the other hand, some Hsunchen may believe in ancestral protectors.
>4) Hsunchen believe that they are descendents of their animals. The
>Praxians very clearly are not.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think a God Learner might disagree here. Impala people are small, Bison
people are large, etc. Their social structures are similar to those of
their animals (source: Sandy Petersen.) A case could be made that the
ancestors before the Split (the Survival Pact, whatever) were not fixed
to either human or animal form. SHape was floppier back then, anyway.
>5) Hsunchen is a religion, not a racial type.
I thought the vast majority of Hsunchen were races as well as X-worshippers.
(X = Telmor, Sofal, etc.) Are many people converted to Hsunchen religions
outside of those born into Hsunchen clans?
> IF (and only IF) the
> Praxians were once Hsunchen way back before the Gods War, they are
> certainly no longer such in any degree.
Agree almost completely. Can't some Praxian shamans manifest features of
their tribal animal? Or is that just in our own campaigns? In NOMAD GODS,
don't incarnations of tribal ancestors/ Waha appear as human with appropriate
animal heads? This could be a Hsunchen holdover. In any case, the split
(if there was one) is Pre-Time and thus has been incorporated utterly into
the current Nature of Things.
People don't even realize anymore that most Orlanthi are descended from
sheep and cattle Hsunchen :-)
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Activity on the Playtest Discussion list
Message-ID: <940126223...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 27 Jan 94 00:36:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2908
For those people interested in current RQ developments,
there's a very lively discussion on the RQ-Playtest
list as maintained by Loren Miller.
You can subscribe by sending a message to
list...@marketing.wharton.upenn.edu, and
tell it: subscribe rq-playtest Your Full Name
Beware: This is a non-digested mailing list.
Which does of course have the advantage of
not having to wait for your first message.
Cheers,
Henk
--
Henk | Henk.La...@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Golden Bow (Jardan)
Message-ID: <1994012705...@radiomail.net>
Date: 27 Jan 94 05:13:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2909
>From: M...@SAVAX750.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK (Mystic Musk Ox)
>Subject: cult info for ftp'ing
>
>>Quite a while ago someone on the mail list posted a whole lot of cult
>>information to a ftp site. At the time I did not have full internet access so
>>I didn't pay much attention. Now that I do have access can someone please
>>e-mail me the ftp site and the file name(s). Thanks!!
>
>I would also like to see this information! I know of the stuff on
>soda.berkeley.edu (Hippoi, Gyzar, Golden Bow)
I still don't have full Internet access, but would love to see Golden Bow
if someone could mail it to me.
I just worked out my summary version of the Grazer's Jardan cult. Here it
is, in RQ: Adventures in Glorantha format (with some additions).
Jardan [Fire, Death]
The Warrior
Worshippers: Grazer men of the Warrior age group
Requirements: 50% skill in Bow, First Aid, Scan, Search
Skills: Bow Attack, Craft/Battle, First Aid, Lance Attack, Ride Horse,
Scan, Search, Shield Parry, Spear Attack, Yu-Kargzant Lore
Duties: Defending the clan, gaining plunder
Virtues: Valorous, Energetic, Proud, Honest, Forgiving
Cult Magic: Bladesharp, Coordination 2/4/6, Demoralize, Detect Enemies,
Disruption, Firearrow, Fireblade, Heal 2/4/6, Ignite, Mobility 2/4/6,
Multimissile 2/4/6, Protection 1/2/4, Speedart
Divine Magic: all common, Enchant Iron, Flamebow, Pureshot, Shield, Truespear
Rune Lords: 90% in Bow, Ride Horse, and three of Craft/Battle, Lance
Attack, Scan, Shield Parry, Weapon Attack; know Firearrow
Associated Cults: Hyalor (Command Horse), Yu-Kargzant (Sureshot)
Miscellaneous: May learn Dastal spells as a lay member.
The Brotherhood of the Golden Bow is an elite group of warriors.
Among its requirements are 90% with Bow and Ride Horse.
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <940127184...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 27 Jan 94 06:40:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2915
johnjmedway asks:
>Do they have stirrups? Who does have stirrups?
Greg and I both concur that stirrups are available everywhere in
Genertela in the Third Age. My own belief is that stirrups were
available in both Pent and Prax in the First Age (anything that
either nomad culture would own, the other would rapidly adopt), and
that the use was spread almost everywhere in Glorantha by the God
Learners during the Second Age. I also believe that the Six-Legged
Empire in Pamaltela used stirrups (they were God Learner-influenced,
of course).
I suspect that the Impala Riders don't bother with Stirrups
(though this doesn't mean they don't KNOW about them).
joerg baumgarter asks: (re Yara Aranis)
>How many illuminated Redlander phalangists do you expect to have in
>the file? Illumination is a prerequisitive for getting Lunar Magic
>(joining the Red Goddess directly), and we are told as well that the
>most Lunar citizens don't.
Not many -- but we know that standard Redlander phalangists get their
butts kicked by the Pent nomads. My point is that the Yara Aranis
cult leaders, who can easily be illuminated, can use Lunar Magic to
do plenty of damage to oncoming foes.
For example, a priestess with a couple of bound spirits could
have 15 Free INT, using it to cast a Distance 5 (range 300 meters,
outranging all bows), Combine 4 (firing off 5 spells at once) Ignite
for 15 mps a whack. That's not so bad -- temporarily taking out five
attacking archers a melee round until you run out of magic points.
Joerg Baumgartner is still going on about the Praxian\Hsunchen
connection: I'll make one last stab at it, then give it up. To save
space, I'm paraphrasing some of Joerg's cts.
>>1) No Hsunchen eat their cult animals. They are kin, not prey.
>The Praxians wouldn't either, if they didn't have to.
This isn't exactly so -- the Praxians generally claim that their own
herd animals taste the best -- it's greed for wealth that keeps them
from eating their own beasts when foreign animals are available.
>2) Hsunchen magic turns you into your animal. No Praxian magic even
>remotely resembles this.
>Fix/Release INT does the trick, don't you think?
No. Fix/Release INT doesn't turn you into a Sable. You don't get
horns, you don't get hooves, you don't get increased endurance. The
Hsunchen magic very clearly alters you physically to resemble your
ancestral beast. The Praxian does not -- not even a trace of such
magic exists. They don't even have myths about were-beasts of their
herd animals or similar shapeshifter types.
>Eiritha is listed as daughter of Hykim.
The Praxians don't descend from Eiritha. Their beasts do.
>But horses can subside and thrive in Prax. Commonly spread
>theory/propaganda suggests they can't.
So? Obviously the propaganda is (a) wrong, or (b) based on more
subtle factors than the obvious ones -- such as constant opposition
and oppression from the Waha cultists.
> The Hsunchen worship the Hunter as main source of meat.
> Praxians worship Waha for slain herd beasts, Hunter for slain game.
Worship of Hunter is not a sign of Hsunchen membership -- it is a
recognition that their ancestors cannot provide for all needs. Hunter
is ultimately a foreign cult, a sign of growing
sophistication/apostasy, and a departure from the ancient ways. If
you look at the Hsunchen myths, you can see that they don't really
have a myth of "learning to worship the beasts", but they always did
it. But they do have a "meeting with Hunter" myth -- he was a later
encounter, usually during the Gods War.
The fact that both Praxians and Hsunchen worship a Hunter is a sign
of the ubiquity of Hunter, no more. The trolls worship a Hunter, too.
>> Everyone except the Brithini and their ilk worships local nature
>>forces.
>Do the Easterners? How does that look like?
Yes. It looks just fine. The complex of Dragon Magic designed by
Daruda is partially for the purpose of suppressing monsoons and
earthquakes. The Kralori have enough control over nature to have
maintained their bay against the Closing for centuries.
>Telmori consider their wolves as full members of their tribe.
>Praxians don't do so, since Waha's covenant made the herd beasts
>unintelligent.
Wow, I can't see how I missed this before. Waha's covenant didn't
make the herd beasts unintelligent -- it made the humans intelligent.
The humans were promoted; made superior to the beasts.
> *Everyone* was an active participant in the Gods War. Haven't you
>been intiated into the I Fought We Won mystery?
>I meant battles preceding I Fought We Won, like the one in which
>Storm Bull slew the Devil, which rages on as the Eternal Battle.
Just about everyone participated in these, too. Pamalt killed
Vovisibor in the battle of Pamalt's Necklace. The Kralori had a
campaign and victory in Kralorela. The Brithini had their own
victories. The Hsunchen are about the only folks that DIDN'T have a
major presence recorded for the Gods War (though they were, of
course, there at I Fought We Won). The Praxians, who did have such a
presence, have this as yet another difference 'tween them and the
Hsunchen.
> >The Praxians have a solid holy place in the Paps. (They inherited
> >it from the Golden Age people). The Basmoli erected Hrelar Amali.
> >(They ... built it themselves.)
> Everyone including the baboons had a big city during the God Time.
>Did the Telmori, Pralori, Damali, Sofali, Uncolings, Kivitti etc.?
>The Doraddi? (To Sandy: were they part of the Artmali Empire?)
How does the absence of other Hsunchen giant holy places make the
Praxians more like them? The Doraddi were not part of the Artmali
Empire -- they were oppressed by it.
> >the Hsunchen acknowledge the local earth powers (proto-Grain
> >goddesses, like Balazar Vyrope, or the goddess' aspects
> >in Rathorela, Ramalia, etc
> Everyone acknowledges local earth powers except deliberate
>atheists like the Brithini. So?
> >So this doesn't make Praxian Earth worship special. 1 point to me.
Ah, but the Hsunchen earth worship is crude and vestigial. (Balazar
Vyrope doesn't count, because the Balazarings aren't Hsunchen,
whether or not they used to be.) In addition, the earth worship of
the Hsunchen is clearly something that they gradually accumulate over
time, like their worship of Hunter etc. The Praxians had a highly
organized pantheon, and only traces of it remain -- it's clear that
it was once a much bigger deal, which has degenerated because of the
ruin wrought by the Gods War. A very different deal than the usual
Hsunchen menu. So we're taking back that point from you.
The Praxians are the only major human culture in Genertela to be
earth-based, unless you count Esrolia. In every other case, the Earth
undertones are overshadowed by a dominant religion of a different
type. Pamaltela, of course, has a large earth culture left in the
Doraddi and Kresh.
>> Are all primitives Hsunchen?
>On Glorantha, I'm inclined to say yes for humans.
Ah, there's the rub, then. I don't think this is so. And you do. No
wonder you believe the Praxians must have derived from Hsunchen
descent. Apparently you feel that all humans did.
Me, I believe the Doraddi claim that the oldest folk were highly
civilized.
DORADDI BELIEFS (lots of Doraddi don't know these things, and are
quite ignorant about outside cultures, but if you ask around at
enough oases, you'll eventually learn the facts)
Everyone used to be civilized. The Chaos Wastes and Prax was once the
home of the Golden Folk. Kralorela has always been an empire, once
ruled by the Sun itself. The oldest human culture with a recorded
history are the Brithini, who were civilized from the start, and are
still more sophisticated/decadent than the Malkioni or other humans.
Pamaltela started out ruled by the Artmali Empire.
The world's history is an epic of progress from its ancestral urban
roots to the more advanced and superior so-called "primitive" or
"nomad" ways.
The Hsunchen are the only humans that are actually primitive
(remember, I'm quoting Doraddi beliefs here). This is because they do
not descend from the same (four) sources as everyone else. Instead,
they descend from animal ancestresses who decided to try to emulate
the great successes that other descendants of Grandfather Mortal had
achieved. So the animals bred for themselves human children. This is
where the Hsunchen come from.
The Pinks (Wererans) all originally come from the Brithini, who are
also pink-skinned, though paler than most. At one time there was a
whole color-scale of ancient humans, all descended from the storm
gods' rape of the sea gods. The Brithini, palest of the pale, and the
red, brown, and blue Vadeli are remnants of these.
The Blues descend from the Blue Moon, which has become more hidden
and mystical since the Darkness. So have the Blues.
The Agimori are the 3rd attempt at creating life by Lodril the
Creator, as egged on by Trickster. The first two attempts were
failures: the Jelmre and Hoolar. The original Agimori were quite
primeval entities, big crude things made of dirt and lava, who fought
chaos and the encroaching jungle, but kept getting killed, until
there were fewer and fewer left. Then Pamalt told them the Secret --
and they drank Water. This made them mortal, but able to breed more
versions of themselves. Basically, it turned them into the modern
Agimori. Supposedly some selfish Agimori didn't drink the Water, so
they could remain deathless forever, and they remained unchanged --
the Old Men. A few are still around, but they're even rarer than
Promalti. Does everyone know about the Promalti?
My great-great-grandfather saw an Old Man in the Mari Mountains once.
He told my grandfather, who told me. The Old Man howled and mourned.
"How can I be so old!", he wailed. "I knew the Mari Mountains when
they were only an inch high! I knew the oceans when they were a
mountain! How can I be so old!" And in his despair, he kneeled down
and ate some snow and became human. He's probably dead now.
[Note to readers: the statement that he knew the "oceans when they
were a mountain" is probably a reference to the Spike.]
********************
MEA CULPA
I was caught on this point by both Paul Reilly and Joerg Baumgartner.
Bad Sandy! No biscuit!
I wickedly said:
>1) No Hsunchen eat their cult animals. They are kin, not prey.
I was wrong wrong wrong. Of course the Hsunchen eat their cult
animals, depending on the type of Hsunchen we're talking about. The
Pralori and Uncolings do it all the time, though they have a special
ceremony (NOT the same as Peaceful Cut -- more like Food Song), as do
other herd-type Hsunchen. Pig Hsunchen, like the ancestors of the
Ramalians may or may not eat their kin.
There's nothing wrong with Paul's "Invite the Bear to his own feast"
idea -- I suggest that the Rathori have a similar ceremony in which a
person must go and get eaten by bears, too.
Paul Reilly (who appears to be siding with Joerg) sez:
>5) Hsunchen is a religion, not a racial type.
> I thought the vast majority of Hsunchen were races as well as
>X-worshippers.(X = Telmor, Sofal, etc.) Are many people converted
>to Hsunchen religions outside of those born into Hsunchen clans?
You're right to an extent, but remember that few Gloranthan religions
are missionary-oriented. Hardly anyone joins a Hsunchen religion
(there are rituals for adoption in case a Hsunchen marries outside
his people, or wants to adopt a child), but you can leave the
Hsunchen religion and no longer be a Hsunchen (it might take a
generation or two). It's kind of like Judaism -- there are few
converts, but it's not really a race.
Also, let's not forget that the Hsunchen of western Genertela
are clearly Wereran racially, though they have specialized features.
Similarly the Hsunchen of Kralorela are Kralori racially, and the
Hsunchen of Pamaltela are Agimori. There are no Veldang Hsunchen, at
least not in any sort of major group.
Oh yeah -- the Promalti are fire demons -- they're
---------------------
From: wat...@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Stirrups
Message-ID: <9401271059.AA00630@condor>
Date: 27 Jan 94 10:59:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2910
>Do they have stirrups? Who does have stirrups?
>This only really matters for those using swinging weapons, as stirrups did
>little for the lancer ( especially light ones ) and bowmen.
I'd heard that stirrups were important for lancers. Wasn't it the inroduction
of stirrups which caused the ascendance of the lance in medieval combat? (And
indirectly caused the introduction of full plate armour etc.)
I've even heard a tale that Arthur and his cronies were the first to use
stirrups in Britain and that this was the root of his success.
I don't allow mounted warriors to use their mount's damage modifier unless
they have stirrups and a decent saddle (else they're very likely to get knocked
off their horse[/bison/triceratops/Bat]).
Don't horse-archers stand in their stirrups to get decent aim?
___
CW.
---------------------
From: r...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Re: RAG: Loren's Comments (regimental spirits)
Message-ID: <H.ea.h_z...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 27 Jan 94 13:05:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2911
>> Blue Moon Wizardry? I agree with Arkat as source, but where and when
>> did Annilla steal or trade that secret?
> I can only think of the Blue Moon School from the Dragon Pass game. I
> would assume that it was something other than Spirit or Divine magic,
> just because of the range their magic is allowed.
No, regimental magic works different. Somewhere between Dragon Pass, King
of Sartar and recent illumination from Sandy et al these spirits are
communal spirits or wyters formed by magically trained groups of persons
unified in purpose. This wyter feeds from the magic potential of the group
(regiment) and acts as a large ghost.
I find it ironic that the Lunars were the first to adopt this Lightbringer
magic for use in mundane battles on a large scale.
And really wonder why the other Lightbringer magic of summoning kin as
soldiers (the Luathela scene, the Ring of Orlanth) is not included anywhere.
--
Joerg Baumgartner r...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Ygglinga (Preview on Free INT 7)
Message-ID: <H.ea.bfo...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 27 Jan 94 13:12:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2912
I wouldn't normally do this kind of thing, but:
I'm in the later stages of producing Free INT 7, a Vikings issue (and
I'm thoroughly late), but I've written something more about Ygg's Isles
and their inhabitants which might contradict some poeople's ideas.
So while I know that there is no One True Way Glorantha, I'd like to
know whether this finds consensus or vivid abhorrence. Please correct
me where I'm wrong.
The whole thing is based upon the article about the Wolf Pirates in
Tales 10.
----------------------
Ygg's Isles came into Glorantha when the Chaosium house campaign
playtested the Vikings Box and the Gloranthan characters be kept.
That's why the Vikings Box gives a lot of ingformation on this part of
Glorantha.
Vice versa one can take over lots of facts about the historical Vikings
and settle these on Glorantha. My impression of Yggs Isles looks
something like this:
Life on the Isles is similar to that of Ottar, the north-Norwegian
chieftain who served with Kig Alfred of Wessex for a winter and whose
travels are reported in the old English Orosius text [another article
in Free INT]. In a harsh lanscape people make a living from fishing,
seal hunting and a bit whaling, and in addition as much agriculture as
possible under the conditions.
Like the Vikings in northern Norway the Ygglinga [I prefer this to
"Yggites"] settle mainly along the coasts. The inand is left to the
wild grazing herds, and the Winterwood Forest in the continental
hinterland is left to the elves. Apart from these two peoples, there
are merchants and soldiers from Loskalm present, who behave much like
the German Hanse did in Bergen, and there are nomadic primitive
hunters, Hsunchen of the Uncoling and Pralori nations, plus maybe some
stray Telmori or Rathori.
The Hsunchen migrate following the pattern set out by the herds they
hunt, and in winter camp close to the coast to hunt and fish, in summer
treck into the inland after the migrating herds. Quite probably some of
them (e.g. the Pralori, who like their totemic animal, the elk, ought
to be capable swimmers, and possibly adept boat builders as well)
inhabit the inland of the larger of Yggs Isles as well. The Uncolings
follow the herds of reindeer up to the edge of Valind's glacier into
the taiga of northern Winterwood and the Tundra beyond, where they have
to compete with the trolls from the glacier.
As the capable hunters and crafters they are they produce pelts and
other animal products in excess which they trade withttheir more
civilized neighbours for metal tools and agricultural produce.
The Ygglinga inhabiting these coasts are the natural trade partners for
the Hsunchen. Ygg's people are sufficiently adept at metalworking and
other sedentary trades to be the main suppliers for these hunters.
Coexistence won't be peaceful all the time, but their mutual interest
in trade will help to get both sides to cooperate. It is quite possible
that the Ygglinga of the northernmos islands (with the worst
agriculture) impose similar taxes on the Hsunchen as Ottar did from the
Finns, and that they mediate as traders to barter them with the
Loskalmi for Grain and other goods from civilisation.
The relations between Ygglinga and elves is similar, only in this case
the Ygglinga are the ones who have to pay tribute. This tribute would
probably consist of metal tools (again), which they can produce more
conveniently than the fire-hating Aldryami, and of walrus-ivory,
whalebone and other sea products which might be of interest to the
Winterwood Aldryami (mother of perl, clam shells, corals...)
The situation reminds to the Icelendic settlers who had to import all
timber from Norway and later from Vinland and Markland in
North-America. In quite a lot of sagas settlers from Iceland crossed
the Atlantic to Norway and entered the service of some king or jarl in
exchange for lumber rights on his lands. On Ygg's isles, they pay gifts
to the Aldryami to get lumber rights and other plant products (probably
hay and leaves as winter forage for the stabled cattle and sheep).
The merchants from Loskalm had entered this latter trade, when their
growing fleet and building business after the Thaw caused greater
demand of prime timber. In earlier times the small quantities of excess
timber the Ygglinga brought from Winterwood was sufficient to fulfil
their needs, but with the sudden Opening of the Oceans trhey wanted
more than the Ygglinga were willing to give. Because of that they sent
their young fleet to the Isles as soon as possible after the Opening,
to establish their trade post there. When the Ygglinga started to build
their own fleet the merchant guilds (not dissimilar to the German
Hanse) succeded in having the kingdom deny them shipping and port
privileges, and only with help of the pressure the newly reappeared
Vadeli the Ygglinga received limited privileges. When the main Vadeli
strength was destroyed at Oenriko Rock and Vadeli influence dwindled,
these privileges were revoked.
Besides the timber the Loskalmi merchants transported also the pelts
traded from the Hsunchen hunters, and dried fish for the fasting period
of the Hrestoli church of Loskalm [a wild guess...]. While the timber
was important militarily and politically, these other wares were of
mainly commercial interest, and for the merchants as much an incentive
to keep a foothold on the Isles as the timber from Winterwood..
The joined uprising of Ygglinga and Aldryami was a severe setback for
the merchants, bt only a minor incident for the Loskalmi navy. The nvy
displayed its strength and occupied Vendreog, an Island which held a
traditional Ygglinga Thing-place where Ygg himself could be consulted
in trials. They raised a fortress they called Coldfort overlooking a
bay which traditionally was used as anchorage and landing for boats
coming to Thing. The merchants followed and built a quay and
storehouses opposite of the fortress. After some time, a mixed
settlement gathered between fort and quay.
From the beginning quay and fort were prohibited area to Ygglinga. But
the Loskalmi stationed here dd not have a convenient life. In the fort
the presence of women, be they local or Loskalmi, was forbidden, and
after some excesses between the soldiers and the comparatively
luxurious living merchants and assistants the quay area was set up
under similarly monastic rules.
The wisdom in this was revealed after the defeat the Loskalmi navy
suffered from Orstando before he escaped south. Local Ygglinga who had
received word of the battle in the Brithos Fog from the sea people
gathered to take either of the Loskalmi settlements, but were keptout
without too much effort, and scattered when the tattered remains of the
navy returned.
After Orstando had led the most rebellious elements of the Ygglinga
abroad, the relations between Loskalmi merchants and native Ygglinga
grew somewhat less cool. Trade with Loskalm and the civilised world
thrived, and some merchants who had learned to cope with the climate
settled there on a permanent base. A church to the Invisible God
completed the triangle of official Loskalmi buildings, and even some
Ygglinga went to service there. Others erected, in reply, a permanent
temple to Ygg and the other deities of the islands around the old Thing
rock. This temple grew popular among the Ygglinga and led to increased
settlement of Ygglinga in the town, too.
Apart from erecting the church and allowing natives into the services,
teh Hrestoli Church has taken no steps to proslytize among the Ygglinga
yet, mostly because the merchants did not want to endanger their
profits in religious warfare. Should the merchants' influence on church
politics lose its grip, the small Loskami colony faces hard times.
---------------
I tried to make Coldfort look a bit like Bergen in Norway. The quay is
almost directly taken from "Bryggen", the Hanse quay with its
storehouses and almost monastic cells for the merchants and dock hands.
The "no women allowed" policy stems from there, too.
Is this still Glorantha, or is this just Alternate Earth?
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Back in the land Down Under (where women glow and men chunder...)
Message-ID: <01H873PKW...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 28 Jan 94 11:45:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2913
G'day all,
Well Su and I are safely returned from our 6 week US odyssey, and reeling
with shock at the antipodean heatwave we are now experiencing. Using
the Fahrenheit scale, yesterday it was exactly *one hundred degrees* warmer
here than it was in New Jersey just over two weeks ago, when we were
staying with Ken Rolston.
We both had a blast of a time during our travels, which took in
LA (pre-earthquake), Seattle, Victoria BC, New York, Columbia, Washington
and San Fransisco. I particularly enjoyed meeting so many people whose
names I only knew from e-mail, and catching up with others who I haven't
seen for some time. And I look forward to seeing you all again next year,
as I hope to be able to make it to RQ Con 2 in San Fransisco!
Highlights of the trip:
*Night skiing at Snoqualmie Pass in Washington State (I had never been
downhill skiing before, but my friend said heUd teach me. When we got
to the top of the slope, he pointed me in a downwards direction and
said "Learn".)
*Trollball on Sunday morning - 9 am and 9 degrees (F)!
*Home of the Bold: The look on Harvar Ironfist (Mike Dawson's) face when he
was brought before me expecting to be executed for trying to light
Sartar's flame and I greeted him with a cheerful, "Harvar, my good
fellow!" (As he *failed* to light the flame, why bother upsetting
Gordius's Grand Design which was progressing so nicely at that
stage?)
*Meeting someone who likes Vegemite even more than Australians brought
up on the stuff - Finula McCaul was eating whole spoonsful of the stuff
at the Eat at Geos Trollfood fest (where it was labelled "Finest Extruded
Tar from the pits of Blackwell"), so I gave her the jar! Bon appetit
Finula!
*Braving snow, sleet, black ice and maniac drivers to visit the mansion
and museum of mad Mr Mercer in Pennsylvania with Ken at the wheel.
*Shovelling snow out of the Rolston's driveway
*While in San Fransisco, getting Stephen Martin to talk about something
other than that G-world for more than 5 minutes.
*Going on a book-buying binge with Greg and Nick in Berkely.
*Buying fossilised turtle crap at the Dead Animal parts shop in Haight, SF.
*My wife Su, a resolute non-gamer, enjoying herself in Home of the Bold as
the Lunar Tax Collector.
Lowlights
*How I felt the day after I went night skiing.
*Wasting one hour of my life waiting in line so I could climb to the top of
the Statue of Liberty (Su didn't want to, but I wouldn't listen).
*Arriving at 3.30am and seven hours late in San Fransisco (even worse
for Stephen Martin, who was waiting to pick us up!)
*Falling sick on News Years Eve, *before* the drinking and revelry
began.
*Comedians in a NY club making jokes about the bushfires here, and us
not knowing what they were on about as we hadn't seen a paper or the news
for days.
*On our first day Su orders a sandwich as she is not feeling "all that
hungry". It comes about the size of a dinner plate and about 18 inches
thick!
We have of course thanked them personally, but I would like to publicly
proclaim the following people as Kind and Generous Hosts, who really
made us feel welcome on our travels: David and Elice Dunham, who make
a mean salmon chowder; Dave Cheng, who shared his tiny apartment
and magnanimously let Su take the bed; Ken & Pat Rolston, who showed
us the northern stars and kept their insane Christmas decorations up
especially for us to gawk at in appalled wonder; Stephen & Carol
Martin, who took us to the see where the ewoks live (the Red Woods;
and Greg Stafford and Suzanne, where we learnt how to pronounce "27"
properly at a local Vietnamese restaurant (ask Greg).
I am preparing a detailed account of the trollball game, including the
rules Nils Hammer and I nutted out at 1.30 am on Saturday night. I am
also finishing up Gordius's defense speech at the Lunar
Inquisitorial Commission, held to work out who to blame for the events
at Boldhome. I'm confident Gordius will get out of this unharmed,and
maybe even with a promotion (it's a shame the only priest with Truth
spells was confined to his tent with a virulent attack of Uleria's
Measles while Gordius took the stand).
Cheers
MOB
---------------------
From: bra...@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 27 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940127144...@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov>
Date: 27 Jan 94 14:45:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2914
With regard to Yelorna in Dara Happa :
Yelorna is the chaste Goddess of the Night Sky and an integral part of Yelm's
pantheon. While She and her worshippers are not thought much of by followers
of Yelm and Yelmalio, they cannot deny her rightful place as one of the solar
gods, albeit one subservient to Yelm in all important matters. Every Yelm or
Yelmalio temple has a shrine to Yelorna in it, although often placed in a poor
location (nearest the privy or cooking area) and usually accessible primarily
through a side door. Any priest of Yelm can officiate at a Yelorna ceremony,
but it is an insult to ask one to do so. On Yelorna's holy days, usually
whichever priest or acolyte is lowest on the s**tlist gets the job. In solar
society, Yelorna worshippers often function as soldiers (in Yelorna-only units,
of course), as scouts, couriers, hunters, and guards for important women
(i.e. foreignors or wives of important men).
Brandon
---------------------
From: fkie...@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 27 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940127135...@aol.com>
Date: 27 Jan 94 18:54:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2916
Greetings All:
Did anybody out there get a Digest for Saturday (January 22, 1994) and/or
Monday (January 24, 1994)???
If so, could they e-mail copies to FKie...@aol.com???
Thanks much!!!!!
Fred Kiesche
(FKie...@aol.com)
---------------------
From: ANDE...@howdy.Princeton.EDU
Subject: RQCon
Message-ID: <59307...@howdy.princeton.edu>
Date: 27 Jan 94 21:16:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2917
Janet Anderson posted this for Paul Anderson:
I loved rqcon! The snafus at the beginning were simply the sort of thing to
be expected the first time something new is tried, and will vanish - I trust-
when whatever bug it was is found and fixed. (Fix Bugs is a trollish skill, you
know . ;-|) The only thing I regret is that. needing to eat and sleep, I didn't
get to talk to enough people.
We will almost certainly not be able to afford a trip to Oakland,
unfortunately. RQCon East 9-15 months from now?
****SPOILER NOTE on HotB*****
I very much enjoyed Home of the Bold. Indeed, I -not my character-
heroquested during the last three hours of it; Greg Stafford is quite right,
FRP can be heroquesting. I do _not_ count the imposed structure of the story of
Romne and Juliana (:-(), which was fun, but the following three cases: no
sooner had I been reunited with my love, and I was apologizing for letting her
ring go astray, than JD Brightstone finally found that it was worthless and
gave it back to us; for perfectly rational reasons, I warned Prince Temertain
of the DOOM that was upon him (I was trying to get him to stay around and help
make peace, but I had in honor to be obscure); and wandered crazily (after all,
I was in love with a *ptyh*Lunar, and was bound to defend her against my own
people) into the last night, past the entire Lunar army, past the vampire-
killing, and past a Lunar patrol safely (must be the Red Goddess's respect for
the mad).
I don't know what this flap over Elmal is; that history has the most
accurate feel of any FRP polytheism I have ever seen. I am much impressed with
KoS; thanks, David.
There does seem to be an idea missing from the richness of Orlanthi society,
especially if it were inspired by Celtic/Cymric sources, as someone has been
arguing on the net [sorry, I don't have my digests to hand]: the lineage, the
Colymarssons, the _Cenell Colymar_, which consists of Colymar's agnatic
descendants.
This is a different group than the Colymar Tribe. Some Colymarssons don't
belong to the Tribe; they went to Pavis, or the Sun Dome, or even as close as
the Culbrea or Malani, and were accepted there. More importantly, many or most
Colymar tribespeople are not Colymarings. Some never were, for their
forefathers came with Colymar, without being his brothers; some were accepted
as groups, like the Hyalorings; some came as individuals, or families, and
Colymar received them; some descend from freed captives.
Being of Colymar's lineage would be of limited importance inside the tribe,
and none outside, so that outsiders would have difficulty recognzing the
distinction. This problem is compounded by tribesmen identifying themselves as
simply 'Colymari' rather than by lineage, since the former is more important
and often more honorable (unless they are appealing to their outside kindred,
or discussing marriage). But it would be appropriate for the King and the
Chiefs of certain clans to be Colymarings, by birth or adoption; and marriage-
geasses are (strictly) on lineages, not clans.
On diseases: Creeping Chills can certainly be lethal if your CON < 10; and
bout of disease should fatigue you immensely. For those who want a nastier
disease: a disease _is_ a disease spirit, which you resist with your CON. A
book disease has a POW of 10, so the resistance chance = 5*CON; but there's no
reason why all diseases should have that POW. I'm trying 6+D6, and diseases
caught from a case have 1 POW less than their mother. Then there's Pocharngo's
Plague....
As I said, I didn't get enough time to talk at the con, so I still have
some
RuneQuestions
1. On CoP p.77 it says that Orlanth "led a strong army of immortals with
many allies. The gods of light continued to fight back, led especially by
[Yelmalio] in Peloria...." and continues with Yelmalio's wounding. Since the
discovery of the Elmal\Yelmalio (or is that Yelmal\Elmalio? :-)) schism:
a} does this story still exist?
b} who tells it?
c} what is the name in brackets?
2. Many proper names are formed with suffixes -ela (like Genertela) and -i,
like Kralori, Basmoli. What Gloranthan language are they from? if they are, as
I suspect, Jrusteli, what was the contemporary name of the High council of
Genertela? what is the native name of Kralorela (Hsi-hia?) etc. etc.
3. Where did the wise Giants intend their cradles to go?
4. In Glorantha-Pak (III,16) it says that feminine Orlanthi tasks include
"cooking, sewing, and starmarking". What _is_ starmarking? Tattooing?
Astronomy?
5. Who teaches Ceremony among the Orlanthi, and to whom?
6. What is Pamalt's arrow-shaped '|` Rune?
7. How would a Gloranthan institute a "Creative HeroQuest" like saving
Pharaoh?
8. If you use the RQIII teaching rules, how many NPC's tend to turn up to
split the costs of any given lesson.
9. I would like to know why some rules were changed for RQIII. These are
mostly ones I don't much care for, and look like they were changed for
`simplicity', but I would like to know, lest it turn out that there was
a loophole fit for an allosaurus:
Lay-memberships dropped (as game-mechanics) It seems natural IMO
to have Gustbran, for instance, to have apprentice smiths as lay members,
journeymen as initiates, and master-smiths as priests.
APP instead of CHA.
A shaman having to have a fetch with more POW than all his controlled
Spirits, with the result that the very good (but not world-class) shaman in
Apple Lane now has a fetch with the grotesque POW of 61.
Ceremony for non-ritual spells/an (untrainable) casting chance for spirit
magic (which already has a min. 5% chance to fail).
etc.,
10. And, so that all things may go by tens forever, what ritual is performed
with several pigeons and a small mirror? I thought this group would know. It's
not in Thorndike.
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 27 Jan 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <940127231...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 27 Jan 94 23:13:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2918
More on Praxians/ Hsunchen:
I had always thought of Uncolings as being very like the Earth's Lapps, in
much the same way that Kralorelans are like the Chinese, etc. If this is not
so (Sandy says that they never eat their totem animal, the reindeer) then
what are they like?
Oh, and what do they live on? From where they live they seemed perfectly
suited to living on reindeer, large herds of which should be roaming around
up there.
I had thought of the Uncolings as being halfway between hunter/gatherers and
herders, again basing this on the Lapps. This would put them somewhere between
Praxians and Hsunchen on the developmental scale. (Note I do not say which
end of the scale is 'better'.)
- Paul Reilly
---------------------
From: malco...@aol.com
Subject: Glorious Reascent of Yelm
Message-ID: <940127195...@aol.com>
Date: 28 Jan 94 00:52:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2919
I just finished reading the Glorious Reascent of Yelm, and I have to say that
I'm kinda confused. I hope others more enlightened can help me out.
What confuses me is that while Yelm, Lodril, Lokarnos, Dendara, and Pole Star
are mentioned, the majority of the book is composed of the stories of
countless other gods that we've never seen before. This doesn't bother me,
but I can't tell wether or not all these other minor gods are currently
worshiped in the Lunar Empire or the Triopolis since the ReAscent is a 1st
age source.
Any ideas....
Malcolm
---------------------
From: ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: Hsunchen and Human
Message-ID: <1994012803...@panix.com>
Date: 27 Jan 94 17:22:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2920
j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner) talks about Hsunchen, and
about how Praxians are in fact like them.
Well, I think there's a misunderstanding here. I have no problem with
the idea that Praxians are *similar* to Hsunchen in some ways. Zzabur
is on record as saying that all non-Brithini humans are descended from
animals, so perhaps *everyone* is descended from Hsunchen.
Would anyone object if I were to bring up _The Glorious Reascent of
Yelm_ here? I know a lot of people haven't seen it, but there are
things in there I'd like to talk about.
---------------------
From: j...@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: Magic, Justice and Tormented Death
Message-ID: <940128045...@hp0.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 28 Jan 94 04:56:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2921
----------------------------------
Joerg Baumgartner in X-RQ-ID: 2905
>>
>> Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2895
>> >Remember that practitioners of Lunar Magic get an enhanced range on
>> >their spirit magic -- don't think they don't use it.
>>
>> How many illuminated Redlander phalangists do you expect to have in the
>> file? Illumination is a prerequisitive for getting Lunar Magic (joining
>> the Red Goddess directly), and we are told as well that the most Lunar
>> citizens don't.
I don't like it that only a very tiny number of folks have this ability.
This may be a memory failure, but weren't the Seven Mothers allowed these
manipulations in CoP?
-------------------------------
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2906
>> Alex is quite exercised over just what the cult of LUNAR JUSTICE
>> would be. IMO, not everyone has such a cult. More to the point, who
>> settles court cases. I have three separate suggestions.
Also, don't forget one of the primary figures of Truth, Justice and the
Pelorian Way: Yelm.
>> ...
>> Or how about using one of the Lunar Examiners?
Who are they?
>> Perhaps each of these three systems is used for different
>> types of cases. For instance, Danfive Xaron might act as judge for
>> criminal cases, the Lunar Examiners for ecclesiastical cases (common
>> in a theocracy like the Lunar Empire), and civil cases by the 7-judge
>> council.
I do like this division of the courts. Maybe the DX assigns the sentence,
leaving the issue of Truth to a Yelmic judge, and keeping the judge from
soiling himself with such mundane matters as ordering floggings, crucifixions,
etc.
Also, in the provinces all of the courts may be combined. In 1624 Boldhome,
according to messrs> Hall and Jacklin, there was a single Lunar Magistratus,
Leonidas of Darleep, a Yelm priest.
>> John Medway whines re: Yara Aranis's parentage:
"Whines"?! Indeed! Hrrmpf!
>> I was with Greg when we worked out the nature of the Pelorian Earth
>> religion, and it was clear to us then that Gorgorma had to be the
>> demon that mothered Yara Aranis. She was as yet unnamed in the early
>> descriptions of Yara Aranis, but when we saw the missing slot in the
>> Pelorian religion (hmm. "We need a Malign Earth Goddess to keep the
>> solar jerks in line."), the connection to Yara Aranis was obvious. If
>> that be a "Greg" so be it.
With Alex's comment today:
>> Hence the answer to my question is a): she's worshipped by Pelorian peasants
>> when they're Being Oppressed, which certainly makes her an Enemy Diety of
>> the Pentans...
This clicks.
One of Gorgorma's, um, charming aspects is the Second Mouth spell, and
somewhere I remember reading/hearing that Yelm priests cannot resurrect
those whose genitals are not intact. And the Pentans, being Solars, have
similar beliefs, I would suppose. Hence Gorgorma = a big nasty.
And, admittedly, it sounds like my idea of Tormented Death.
So is there a Bobbitt subcult?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Pure Horse, Golden Bow
Message-ID: <1994012808...@radiomail.net>
Date: 28 Jan 94 08:18:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2922
Joerg wrote
>(This is somehow weakened by the fact that the Pure Horse Pentans
>exclusively eat horse meat.
which I don't buy. The Mongols and Scythians are both known to be big
hunters (actually, they weren't Pure Horse -- you're actually much better
off raising cattle*), and the young men's god of the Grazers is Dastal the
Hunter.
My belief is that Pure Horse people eat horses (probably mostly males,
since females are more valuable giving milk), and wild animals. They spurn
domesticated animals -- and probaby don't consider horses to be
domesticated, but rather willing allies.
* According to Marvin Harris in _The Sacred Cow and the Abominable Pig_,
milking mares is dangerous, and horses are less efficient than cow.
and then he wrote
>Votanki from Balazar might be seen as Dog-Hsunchen
which I also don't see. They don't turn into dogs. Dogs are their friends
and allies but not something they particularly worship.
Sandy wrote
>GOLDEN BOW: he is a separate and distinct cult. He is an associate
>cult of Yelm, not a subcult. He is not Noble-only. Of course, he's a
>lot more popular among the Pent nomads. I imagine that only career
>soldiers worship him in Peloria, making his cult rather like that of
>Yanafal Tarnils.
Greg told me the Grazer god Jardan was Golden Bow. Looking at the four
Grazer age group deities, Jardan also looked an awful lot like Yelm the
Warrior. So in my version of the Grazers, Jardan (aka Golden Bow) is sort
of a Yu-Kargzant (not exactly Yelm, but...) subcult. You don't have to be a
noble to worship (tho you do need the right ancestry), unlike worshipping
Yu-Kargzant proper (only noble adults and clan chieftains worship
Yu-Kargzant directly).
Of course, his worship in Peloria is likely to be quite different, and I'm
sure the Pent nomads don't worship him the same way the Grazers do, either.
---------------------
From: dev...@aol.com
Subject: Re: Missing RQ Dailies and Illumination
Message-ID: <940128051...@aol.com>
Date: 28 Jan 94 10:10:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2923
Did not receive RQ Dailies for Jan 23 and Jan 24. Can someone email them to
me at:
Much appreciated.
Also, Illumination figures greatly in my RQ campaign, and I was wondering if
anyone out there has any thoughts on the subject. Some tidbits and questions:
1) Can illumination be reversed? Un
less Illumination is so "correct" a paradigm that once illuminated, the old
beliefs hold
no water whatsoever, wouldn't it be possible for someone to be re-grounded
into his old prejudiced
ways of thinking. If not, does this mean that Illumination is the "correct"
way of thinking (
I don't mean correct in the minds of illuminates, but correct in the sense
that it is a basic truth of glorantha)?
2) Do people know that they have been asked a riddle right away or do they
feel funny at Sacred Time? If the former, then I find it hard to believe that
any Riddlers could get away with riddling people without instant retribution.
The rules seem to imply that the riddle roll against skill percent
age is made right away, and an example in COT states that the answer come
unbidden to the "v
ictim's" tongue. They way Illumination is viewed outside of Peloria, I would
assume that anyone feeling such an effect would draw his sword and decapitate
the riddler. In my campaign, riddling is subtl
e, and often involves written notes, songs, and stories that aren't really
direct questions
or riddles. It takes some time (say a season or two) of pondering in the back
of one's mind before o
ne comes to an insight. This not only seems more "realistic", but allows the
riddlers to be long gone before any sheenanigans are realized.
3) If illumination cannot be reversed, and if it is the
goal of riddlers to "infect" other with their riddles, then won't it be true
that soon all of glorantha will become illuminated? After all, it will take,
on the average, about 3 or 4 successful riddles to illuminate someone
eventually. If you know anything about breeding systems (like bacteria) then
you realize that even a few riddlers working in concert would eventually
infect the rest of glorantha rather quickly, given that illumination cannot
be reversed and the fact that, once illuminated, the new illuminates seek
also to spread their new state of being to others.
4) COT states that Arkat was illumina
ted by the elves of Brithos. It further implies that Nysalor is the "source"
of illumina
tion. However, doesn't it seem odd that Arkat would be illuminated by a group
of elves dwelling in a land that, supposedly, Nysalor's influence never
reached? This seems to suggest that Illumination has an origin more basic
than that of Arkat and Nysalor (who, of course) are likely one and the same.
So, until trollkin become Death Lords......
Devin Cutler
dev...@aol.com
---------------------
From: ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28)
Subject: "THE DESCENT OF MAN
Message-ID: <5434*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 28 Jan 94 15:26:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2924
Carl Fink in X-RQ-ID: 2920
understands exactly what I was talking about:
> Well, I think there's a misunderstanding here. I have no problem with
>the idea that Praxians are *similar* to Hsunchen in some ways. Zzabur
>is on record as saying that all non-Brithini humans are descended from
>animals, so perhaps *everyone* is descended from Hsunchen.
The Doraddi, Brithini and Artmali tell us otherwise, the Kralori, Yelmic
and Orlanthi myths leave the question open.
There seem to be three major and a few minor variants of the Man Rune
(human races): The Wareran, Agimori and Eastern types each spawned a number
of Hsunchen races, the minor ones (Veldang, Vadeli [who are listed as
Warerans in Genertela Player Book if I remember correctly]) apparently did
not.
Sandy's answers to my provocation left new and other old questions open.
Like Sandy, I'm going to let this threat ebb down. Only some last notes
(and thanks to Sandy for giving out all this wonderful info, which was
worth the risk of being branded heretic)
>>Eiritha is listed as daughter of Hykim.
>The Praxians don't descend from Eiritha. Their beasts do.
Wrong, at least according to Cults of Prax. The Ancestors of the People are
the offspring of the Protectresses (also the mothers of the beasts) and the
Founders. Both of these are children of Eiritha, the Protectresses by the
Good Shepherd, the Founders by Storm Bull.
(I think the genealoy is on page 31.)
>>Telmori consider their wolves as full members of their tribe.
>>Praxians don't do so, since Waha's covenant made the herd beasts
>>unintelligent.
>Wow, I can't see how I missed this before. Waha's covenant didn't
>make the herd beasts unintelligent -- it made the humans intelligent.
>The humans were promoted; made superior to the beasts.
You're right, this sheds a totally different light on all the Godtime human
activities. See below.
>The Praxians are the only major human culture in Genertela to be
>earth-based, unless you count Esrolia. In every other case, the Earth
>undertones are overshadowed by a dominant religion of a different
>type. Pamaltela, of course, has a large earth culture left in the
>Doraddi and Kresh.
You forget the Tarshite and Saird native earth cults which at times seemed
to have a firm grip on their (sacrificial!) Orlanthi husband protectors.
These are at least numerically stronger.
I still suffer from my first impression that the Praxian pantheon is just a
specialized branch of the Storm pantheon, with Storm Bull and Waha in a
similar role to Umath and Orlanth in the general Storm pantheon. (This is
what starting Glorantha experience with Gods of Glorantha and the Genertela
Box does to the unsuspecting mind...) There is no Earth worship mentioned
in GoG, and the cult of Ernalda/Dendara/Eiritha in the DeLuxe Box seemed to
indicate it was ubiquitious as a subservient pantheon. I've learned
different, in time, but everybody suffers from first impressions.
>>> Are all primitives Hsunchen?
>>On Glorantha, I'm inclined to say yes for humans.
>Ah, there's the rub, then. I don't think this is so. And you do. No
>wonder you believe the Praxians must have derived from Hsunchen
>descent. Apparently you feel that all humans did.
>Me, I believe the Doraddi claim that the oldest folk were highly
>civilized.
>Everyone used to be civilized. The Chaos Wastes and Prax was once the
>home of the Golden Folk. Kralorela has always been an empire, once
>ruled by the Sun itself. The oldest human culture with a recorded
>history are the Brithini, who were civilized from the start, and are
>still more sophisticated/decadent than the Malkioni or other humans.
>Pamaltela started out ruled by the Artmali Empire.
Thanks for that insight. However: the Kralorela description has the rumour
that the Kralori descend from the Dragon Hsunchen.
I agree that the people of the Kingdom of Logic were civilized from the
start, nad since split into Brithini and conventional Malkioni, a split I
suspect due to Malkion. I've used this in my Aeolian cult write-up I'm
going to post soon, in a beta-release.
I can accept this for the Artmali, too, and if the Doraddi say so about
themselves, who am I to doubt them.
Neither do I doubt it for the Golden Age people of Prax. Only there's one
big BUT:
(This is what I gather from Cults of Prax and Nomad Gods.)
The modern Praxians are definitely not descended from this civilisation,
but were roaming around with their animals in Generts Garden. The Golden
Age people of Prax and the Tada-shi were humans from some other source,
while the beast-riding Praxians were the offspring of the children of
Eiritha by Storm Bull and the Good Shepherd. (Ok, the Good Shepherd is
listed as descendant of Tada and Ernalda, so the Tada-shi were related.
Remotely.)
The Golden Age people of Prax seems to stem from Ernalda through the 48 Old
Ones and other, now lost, spirits/deities. The Tada-shi were descendants of
Ernalda, too, and probably of Tada as well.
Absolutely nothing indicates that the beast-riders were civilized, and your
comment about the nature of Waha's covenant above makes them look more like
the pets of Genert's people, similar to the Runners in Aldryami society.
>The Hsunchen are the only humans that are actually primitive
>(remember, I'm quoting Doraddi beliefs here). This is because they do
>not descend from the same (four) sources as everyone else. Instead,
>they descend from animal ancestresses who decided to try to emulate
>the great successes that other descendants of Grandfather Mortal had
>achieved. So the animals bred for themselves human children. This is
>where the Hsunchen come from.
They refrain from mentioning the Orlanthi and Pelorians, probably because
of lacking contacts. Several hints for the divine ancestry of these exist
(Alkor, Yuthu, Hyalor and other sons of Yelm for Pentans and Dara Happans,
possibly Lodril for the Pelorian lowland natives (were there ever native
Hsunchen in the central Pelorian Bowl?), and Orlanth for Vingkotlings and
some other Orlanthi chieftains (at least)). On the other hand, people
constantly tell us about Orlanthi as originally cattle or sheep Hsunchen.
>The Pinks (Wererans) all originally come from the Brithini, who are
>also pink-skinned, though paler than most. At one time there was a
>whole color-scale of ancient humans, all descended from the storm
>gods' rape of the sea gods. The Brithini, palest of the pale, and the
>red, brown, and blue Vadeli are remnants of these.
The Westerners descend from Vadrudi rapists or other Storm Gods (gentle
Aerlit, cold Ygg) and naiads (Malkioni from Warera, Ygglinga from
Nelarinna, the Vadeli and Waertagi from other mothers whose names I don't
know). This brings up the question why they aren't mermen like the
descendants of Ludocha, Ouoria, Malaspa et al (see Tales 10).
The Brithini believe, in my opinion, to descend from the primeval
inhabitants of the Kingdom of Logic and the children of Malkion and Britha
(goddess of the land of Brithos). The original inhabitants of the Kingdom
of Logic are, IMO, the original humans that were formed by the Celestial
court from the Man Rune without any interference of other influences (such
as the Fire of Lodril in the Agimori, the Beast in the various Hsunchen,
Storm and Sea in the Westerners, Sky and others in the Pelorians...), and
are related to the rest of humankind like the Ancestral Mostali to the
dwarves (Clay Mostali). The advent of Malkion in the Kingdom of Logic and
the resulting evolution I have used for my Aeolian write-up. I really ought
to post it soon.
Anyway, the surviving Brithini mostly are descendants from Malkion, as are
the Malkioni, although in lost Brithos some specimen of the preceding
people of the Kingdom of Logic might remain.
The other peoples classified as Warerans most probably do not share this
ancestry, whatever teh Doraddi say. After all, their contacts came only
with the Jrusteli and Seshnegi colonisation in Umathela, and the first wave
of these fit that description.
What tale do the Agimori of Prax or Pithdaros have to tell?
Agimori descent of men made (constructed) by Lodril:
This tale is corroborated in River of Cradles.
How comes there are apparently Agimori Hsunchen? (see below)
>Paul Reilly (who appears to be siding with Joerg) sez:
>>5) Hsunchen is a religion, not a racial type.
>> I thought the vast majority of Hsunchen were races as well as
>>X-worshippers.(X = Telmor, Sofal, etc.) Are many people converted
>>to Hsunchen religions outside of those born into Hsunchen clans?
>You're right to an extent, but remember that few Gloranthan religions
>are missionary-oriented. Hardly anyone joins a Hsunchen religion
>(there are rituals for adoption in case a Hsunchen marries outside
>his people, or wants to adopt a child), but you can leave the
>Hsunchen religion and no longer be a Hsunchen (it might take a
>generation or two). It's kind of like Judaism -- there are few
>converts, but it's not really a race.
> Also, let's not forget that the Hsunchen of western Genertela
>are clearly Wereran racially, though they have specialized features.
>Similarly the Hsunchen of Kralorela are Kralori racially, and the
>Hsunchen of Pamaltela are Agimori. There are no Veldang Hsunchen, at
>least not in any sort of major group.
And by saying this, everything goes tumbling again.
But wait, there is a Kralori myth which might help:
Wild Man (their name for the ancestor of all humans) goes around mating
with the 392 or so animals, plants and rocks before the woman is made for
him.
From this last union, in which Wild Man was tamed, come the ancestors of
the Eastern (or Kralori) race.
This myth at least allows for Hsunchen etc by union of the bearer of Man
Rune with various beasts and other natural forces, and so in the far East
(the Vithelan Empire) and the far West (pre-Ice Age Brithos aka Kingdom of
Logic) of Glorantha the pure-bred humans may be found, while all other
humans have some other, additional, origin in their ancestry.
Joerg Baumgartner
ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Subj: POWER RUNE
Message-ID: <01H88HKB3...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 29 Jan 94 11:31:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2925
Paul Anderson asks:
>>>6. What is Pamalt's arrow-shaped '|` Rune?
At the risk of scooping my own magazine, I'll give you a tid-bit from issue
#11 of Tales, the Pamaltela Special (due out any month now!)
"The Power Rune
The God Learners often distorted local patterns of worship to fit their
own preconceptions and academic strictures. This was especially true
in Pamaltela, a land whose culture and religious mythologic were
profoundly alien to God Learner experience and thought.
Amidst this clash of realities, the God Learner cult synthesis often
obscured more than it revealed.
One example is the "Pamalt" or Power Rune, a source of much
confusion among visitors to Pamaltela.
The Power Rune belongs to Pamalt. In God Learner documents, it refers to
the unique influence Pamalt exerts over the land through his Necklace
and Council, and his close kinship with the Earth.
Among the tribes of Pamaltela, the rune is one of a small
number of secret/sacred runes used within the multiple levels
of cultic and clan initiation.
"
There's quite a bit more on this topic, but you'll have to wait for the
zine!
Til then, keep walking in the Left Footpath!
MOB
---------------------
From: ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28)
Subject: "CELTIC ORLANTHI SUN GODS AND GIANTS
Message-ID: <5452*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 28 Jan 94 16:23:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2926
Paul Anderson in X-RQ-ID: 2917
> There does seem to be an idea missing from the richness of Orlanthi society,
>especially if it were inspired by Celtic/Cymric sources, as someone has been
>arguing on the net [sorry, I don't have my digests to hand]: the lineage, the
>Colymarssons, the _Cenell Colymar_, which consists of Colymar's agnatic
>descendants.
The concept you present is interesting. Could you explain it in more detail?
What is the role of common ancestry for the relations between members of
different tribes along this line, and does this work only fo rnoble
bloodlines?
> 1. On CoP p.77 it says that Orlanth "led a strong army of immortals with
>many allies. The gods of light continued to fight back, led especially by
>[Yelmalio] in Peloria...." and continues with Yelmalio's wounding. Since the
>discovery of the Elmal\Yelmalio (or is that Yelmal\Elmalio? :-)) schism:
> a} does this story still exist?
> b} who tells it?
> c} what is the name in brackets?
a) just a little while ago, someone (Henk?) posted Greg's reaction to Paul
Honigmann's Yelmalio quiz, which said something like "all information about
Yelmalio still is valid".
b) The Orlanthi and the Solar people do, with different emphasis.
I believe that the Orlanthi tell this story with two different outcomes:
(Note that this is my personal hypothesis)
In the Yelmalio story, as in the Hill of Gold heroquest, Orlanth ambushes and
beats Yelmalio, takes his weapons and armour and leaves him behind.
(This would be the Solar version featuring Bad Guy Orlanth, too, if you
emphasize it that way. The Orlanthi would tell how Yelmalio refuses
Orlanth's generous offer of friendship and reutrning the armour after the
fight.)
In the Elmal story, Orlanth fights Elmal and beats him, but reaches his
hand in friendship after establishing who is better. Elmal accepts, and
eventually marries into Orlanth's family.
I think it is quite possible that both stories are the result of the
original Hill of Gold storyline. Now which one is the real? This question
might be irrelevant...
c) If one accepts the line of thought above, Elmalio is Elmal who lost his
fire powers to Zorak Zoran, while Yelmal beat ZZ and kept his fire. Both
are hypothetical, of course... The suffix -io seems to have been used for
diminutive names, and the loss of a major power surely would warrant its
use.
Sandy: Your description of the full story of the Hill of Gold looks rather
bleak, with virtually no chance for Yelmalio to survive it. Yet Yelmalio
was present at the dawn, and alive.
And, back to the subject of the names of the sun: I have found the
reference about the Ralian horse people. It says in Uz Lore that they
were not polluted by the light of Yelm. If Ehilm=Yelm, how can they worship
Ehilm (as is stated in Elder Secrets under el-metal)?
> 3. Where did the wise Giants intend their cradles to go?
Good question.
One wild hypothesis is that they intend the child to grow up and eventually
go down Magasta's pool to get reunited with Annilla, ancestress of the
giants who fought the dragons before most other events of Godtime, and
learn her secrets from her directly.
This would explain why there are wise giants (who know these secrets) and
crude ones.
The whole cradles business has me puzzled, too. It seems that the 1621
cradle holds the child of Boshbisil the Trader and Sa Mita, both described
in Griffin Mountain. Yet Sa Mita (and Hen Cik) are said to be young giants,
merely 80 years or so old.
(The baby is quite large for Sa Mita as mother, too...)
How were they raised, or respectively: why weren't they put into a cradle?
Do the giants of Rockwood Mountains have a two class system similar to Uzuz
and Uzko, and only the Uzuz equivalent is sent on its childhood heroquest?
Then how could they afford to stop this after Thog's defeat in 875, and
more importantly: how could they take up this praxis again? Does Thog still
roam the Rockwoods?
BTW: I didn't get around to look this up yet. Is 6 metres the size for a
72 year-old giant following normal RQ rules, and what age would Boshbisils
12 metres indicate?
Gonn Orta grew from 12 to 150 metres in 1620 years. This is roughly 1 metre
per twelve years, which agrees with Sa Mita's size and age. But Boshbisil
is said to have wandered around with Gonn Orta, who hasn't left his pass
fort since 1042. An inconsistency, or do some giants grow more slowly than
others (apart from Karl the Midget)?
---------------------
From: ap...@soda.berkeley.edu (Shannon D. Appel)
Subject: Rune Calendar
Message-ID: <1994012818...@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: 28 Jan 94 02:37:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2927
Lewis Jardine's TeX Rune Calendar is now available for FTP. I've also
supplied a postscript conversion, to make the calendar more easily
available to those without TeX access. The files are all in the
directory:
/pub/runequest/postscript/calendar
Shannon
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk
Subject: That wacky Solar/Lunar god-bunch.
Message-ID: <940128183...@keppel.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 28 Jan 94 18:37:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2928
john_medway:
> According to The GLorious Reascent of Yelm ( Solar mythology - if you couldn't
> guess ), the original 10 cities of Dara Happa were quite Solar.
That makes sense: but what, for reference, are said cities? All the big
'uns apart from Glamour and Red Fish?
> Antirius has been accused of being a Dara Happan analog of Yelmalio.
> There *are* some myth patterns in common, but there are as certainly
> many which are not.
I've just /'d through my mailbox for references to Antirius, and I can't
say they help a lot. Anyone care to give us a run-down on this cult?
Is he a) a son of Yelm, and b) a god with a similar role to Yelmalio,
to wit, a diety of the soldiery?
> Alex Ferguson sent me a list of questions on Pelorian cults, and as I
> started answering them, I thought the rest of youse guys might like
> to see the results, so you could attack my views vigorously in print.
Still, I claim First Blow. ;-)
> Alex is quite exercised over just what the cult of LUNAR JUSTICE
> would be. IMO, not everyone has such a cult. More to the point, who
> settles court cases. I have three separate suggestions.
This isn't necessarily more to the point at all: if there is someone
who fits this role in the pantheon, even at a push, it'd be useful for
my purposes to know this, even if judges and court officials often belong to
(a) quite different cult(s).
> To keep with the Lunar sense of balance -- how about Danfive
> Xaron, the only criminal among the mothers?
Sick, but not implausibly so.
> Or how about using one of the Lunar Examiners?
To wit, the Goddess herself being the Goddess of Justice. I can think of no
firm reason why not, but I'm not very keen on this option.
> the Lunar Examiners for ecclesiastical cases (common
> in a theocracy like the Lunar Empire) and civil cases by the 7-judge
> council.
Or vice-versa. Or varying by region: is it the case that the Seven Mothers
are more worshipped in the peripheral regions, or is this truer of YA?
> Of course, local systems of justice would prevail wherever
> they were already strong.
Where they are strong and happen to suit lunar purposes: see Boldhome
as a counterexample (local system of Jurors ignored, Solar
Is it consistent with what is Known about the Lunar pantheon that there
_could_ be a minor diety with a Justice function, at least simply to act
as Presiding Spirit in (some?) Lunar courts? Or would such a god
necessarily be a big enough Shake that it would already have _necessarily_
have been Known to date?
> PELORIAN MILITARY CULTS
> POLE STAR:
This is my working option, but I have next to no info on the cult. Is
there anything squirreled away on him in some obscure location?
> GOLDEN BOW: I imagine that only career
> soldiers worship him in Peloria, making his cult rather like that of
> Yanafal Tarnils.
Begging the question...
Another topic, just to make this message the absurd length you all know and
loathe:
Yanafal Tarnils: what _is_ the structure of this cult? I've seen more
cult rank titles than you could shake a fist at: Rune Lord, Iron Lord,
Sword, you name it. Is this a direct Humakt analogue (Initiate -> Sword),
or more complicated? And oes the structure of the cult as worshipped as
one on the Mothers differ from the cult as a separate entity?
> re: DAYZATAR
> > Hm. Isn't Solar rebirth dogma supposed to say you can only be
> >_born_ into the Dayzatar cult, having been a virtuous Yelm
> >worshipper in the one before?
> Sort of. Like many other "previous existence" rules, it works out as
> circular logic.
Well of course. The point I was pondering was: is it nececcary (or indeed
even _possible_) to have a `reincarnation step' between being a Yelm guy,
and being a D. guy?
> You may claim this is rather specious reasoning -- I concur. There is
> some evidence that in the First Age, Dayzatar monks WERE hereditary
> only.
<falls off chair> You mean some Dayzatar doods actually have __sex__!
Shocker. I certainly didn't think it should be hereditary: I'd envisaged
some sort of entirely abitrary qualification to determine sufficient
Holiness. Scouring the land for the Holy Child who'll become the next
<insert title> and cornball stuff like that.
Having Dayzatar as a catch-all retirees cult seems dubious to me. Yelm
already has Yelm the Elder, and are other Solar cults Ellevated enough
to supply the D. cult with members?
And I'm particularly dubious about Yelmalio -> Dayzatar... Are they ever
worshipped in the same area? Would the D. cult touch Yio with a 18' pike?
I repeat my gripe about Hector in _Sun County_ at this point, for all the
good it will do.
> But now the status is available to any good priest.
And the _only_ route to D. membership is this, retirement from a Solar cult?
> I was with Greg when we worked out the nature of the Pelorian Earth
> religion, and it was clear to us then that Gorgorma had to be the
> demon that mothered Yara Aranis.
> If that be a "Greg" so be it.
It Has Been Gregged. Amen.
(As one of the people previously confused as to this point, let me state:
It Works for me. And no, I have no idea if this is `really' a Greg or not.)
Alex Ferguson.
---------------------
From: chao...@netcom.com (Chaosium)
Subject: dcredo
Message-ID: <1994012819...@mail.netcom.com>
Date: 28 Jan 94 03:23:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2929
CREDO Errata
by Greg Stafford
Here is a provisional errata (January 26, 1994) based upon
questions received from various sources. I am responding in part
to questions asked, and answering questions which are already
given in the text.
Q: Are Patriarchs treated as Bishops? Or are they immune to cards
and events that effect bishops?
A: See page 6, col 2, 10. Anytime a card says Bishop, it means
Bishops and Patriarchs; if Patriarch, it means only Patriarchs.
Q: When you draw a new Article and put it on your display, do you
put it into any empty slot? Could it be any slot, perhaps bumping
another article to a new location?
A: Place it in any blank spot. Once placed, Articles may not be
moved on the display.
Q: What are the wins and losses when a double article (1&2, for
example) is passed?
A: When a multiple doctrine is passed, it takes up BOTH slots. In
this case, everyone who does not have the article loses for BOTH
articles on their own display, but whoever's Article was passed
collects for only ONE doctrine being passed. Likewise, if the
double doctrine is rejected, the holder of it loses only once.
Q: When I "Take" a flock, do I rifle through my opponent's hand
or just accept his largest Flock?
A: Just ask for his biggest flock, and Take it. I thought p 2,
col 2, para 10, last sentence, covered this.
Q: I play an Event which allows "Seculars May Persecute." Whose
Seculars? How many times (once per Secular?) Who chooses what to
Remove?
A: Persecution is basically an act of revenge. A result of
Persecute is exacted only once, not once per Secular. The player
who is doing the Persecution exacts his revenge by choosing which
cards to Remove. If you failed a Proselytize, for instance, your
attempted "target" may Persecute (if he has a secular in that
half of the empire).
Q: I am holding a duplicate of my own Article, which is Refuted
by a Church Father. Can I then replace my lost Article with the
one in my hand?
A: No. See page 6, col 2, para 5.
I thought that you might be able to replace it anyway, perhaps by
using your own Church Father. However, the designer and developer
were quite adamant on this point.
Q: When does the Emperor card come out?
A: With the deal. Otherwise, treat him as a Secular in every way,
except that it is placed Aside when eliminated so that it can be
re-entered with an Event card. Yes, this means that there may be
no emperor, which gives everyone quite a hand when they begin to
negotiate.
Q: The IN THIS SIGN CONQUER card says that the church helped the
emperor to a great victory and they can take a single secular
from anyone. Does this include the emperor?
A: This includes the emperor: Constantine himself would have
gained the Emperor card by playing "In This Sign Conquer" on its
previous holder. The Emperor is *always* treated as a secular.
Q: When one player Takes a card from another's Flock does the
losing church have to display all its flock cards, or does the
victor have to pick blindly, or perhaps in a "go fish" style?
A: We usually stack flock cards from highest to lowest, which
makes a lot of work in the game easier. In our games (and per the
rules, page two, second column, penultimate paragraph), "Take"
means the victor gets to pick the highest; your variant is fun
and sensible and does not revolt me as a house rule. (It
sometimes worries me that a couple of "One Million Flock" cards
changing hands in the last round can effectively decide the game,
but as I don't play it for money I'm not too bothered by this).
Q: On page 2 of the rules, it says to place the dummy deck of
Church Cards on the "Church Deck." But the Card Layout Guide has
no "Church Deck."
A: Oops, we had used "Office Cards" as a catch-all phrase for
"everything in the Church Deck that isn't Flock", and it crept
in the final version by mistake. Use the "Office Deck" space for
the "Church Deck," and if you keep it covered by a deck of cards
then nobody need ever know of our error.
Corrections to Text:
Page 2, col 1, Step 2.
You MUST use as many of the dealt Articles as possible. You may
discard only those which have a duplicate Article.
Page 2, Col 2, Para 8, first sentence. Should say:
It is dealt out equally among the players and...
Page 6, col 1, add to end of first Paragraph: "Players must use
as many Article cards as possible; only duplicates may be
discarded."
THE CARDS
Correct the following cards to be "Play Immediately."
(Regrettably, the software skipped a layout Return line
someplace.)
Julian the Apostate
Plague In West
Plague in East
Clarification for Regency
If the Empress card is in play, the Emperor card goes to whoever
has her card. If there is no Empress in play, the Emperor goes to
whoever plays the card.
--
*************************************************************************
* an eternity of endless space * Omnes rumores sunt veri *
* a day of wind and rain * Toto kansoseum non est cognito *
*************************************************************************
Chaosium Inc, 950-A 56th St. Oakland, CA 94609 * 510-547-7681
chao...@netcom.com
---------------------
From: mab...@batman.b11.ingr.com (boris)
Subject: Basmoli??
Message-ID: <1994012819...@batman.b11.ingr.com>
Date: 28 Jan 94 19:39:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2930
Okay, I give up. Maybe I'm overlooking something obvious, but I can't
find the reference. In the ongoing "Praxian are/are not Hsunchen"
discussion, there have been several references to "Hrelar Amali". Could
some better educated Gloranthan scholar please tell me where this is
discussed, please?
Thank you.
-----
(*) ZZ [] (.) @ e K| o8- |> oK <>< )o 3 8 <|
Two heads are better than one.
Thanatar proverb.
Boris
|><| +- (| >- .: K * =|= <- (O) ( ) (o) (|) X-
---------------------
From: ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: GRoY, and Lunar Magic
Message-ID: <1994012819...@panix.com>
Date: 28 Jan 94 09:54:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2931
malco...@aol.com writes:
R>I just finished reading the Glorious Reascent of Yelm, and I have to say that
>I'm kinda confused. I hope others more enlightened can help me out.
R>What confuses me is that while Yelm, Lodril, Lokarnos, Dendara, and Pole Star
>are mentioned, the majority of the book is composed of the stories of
>countless other gods that we've never seen before. This doesn't bother me,
>but I can't tell wether or not all these other minor gods are currently
>worshiped in the Lunar Empire or the Triopolis since the ReAscent is a 1st
>age source.
We don't know. :-) However, Kargzant is still worshipped as
"Yu-Kargzant" by the Grazelanders, and (I deduce) the Pentans.
What I'd really like to see is the Kralori version of these legends.
Does anyone else think that Shargash is Umath and/or Orlanth? After
all, Umath is a child of the Sky.
j...@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway) comments on Lunar Magic:
R>I don't like it that only a very tiny number of folks have this ability.
>This may be a memory failure, but weren't the Seven Mothers allowed these
>manipulations in CoP?
I'm afraid it's a memory failure. And I do like that only a small
number of folk have the ability.
--Carl
---------------------
From: MIL...@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
Subject: hot lead
Message-ID: <01H87ZOZE...@wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: 28 Jan 94 10:58:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2932
Is "eat hot lead" considered a blessing or a curse by Zorak Zorani?
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller internet: MIL...@wharton.upenn.edu
"Enough sound bites. Let's get to work." -- Ross Perot sound bite
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Humakt
Message-ID: <940128222...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 28 Jan 94 12:26:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2933
>I missed this discussion at the Con, but there is one thing you may be
>a bit off on. I don't think it's "disregard for death", but instead great
>reverence for death, which is the Humakti hallmark.
>As you went on to state, ( reworded ) when fated to die, die, when not, don't.
>This doesn't mean that any of them look forward to death. It is the heaviest
>*duty* of this already fairly heavily duty-bound cult.
>Also don't forget that not every cult-member is really all that devout.
>Doubtless there are some who joined because of peer, or other social
>pressure.
The following summarizes my opinions on Humakt/Humakti. It also explains the
fact that Yanafal Tarnils is more popular than is Humakt among the Lunars
(other than his Seven Mothers status, of course).
To wit:
1: It has been established on several occasions that a given deity in Glorantha
may have several different aspects, depending on place of worship, local culture
et cetera.
2: There are Broo Humakti.
3: Humakt's runes are death, truth, AND death (again).
4: Greg Stafford has stated (for whatever it's worth) that the Humakt writeup
in ToTRM is the "kinder, gentler" Humakt of the Sartarites and their relatives.
He also states that the prohibition vs. death duels among Humakti may not
exist in the Holy Country.
Okay, where am I getting with all of this?
What a proper Humakti is depends entirely on WHERE that Humakti is (or more,
accurately, where that Humakti came from and joined the cult). In the Pavis
region, Humakti are basically the US Marshall of the Old West--tough, grim
fighters for right and honor, unafraid to deal or be dealt death when the
situation demands it, but still adhering to a strict code.
In Dorastor, Humakt took a different aspect. There he is DEATH first and
foremost, death with honor but DEATH, nonetheless. He is the inescapable
and terrible TRUTH of DEATH that haunts all beings and claims all things.
I am of the opinion that this aspect is not just Dorastor's but is the more
commonly known aspect of Humakt throughout Carmania (Dara Happa). I allow
this to influence my Pavis campaign a great deal. The Lunars were quite
surprised to find out how similar the southern Humakt was to Yanafal Tarnils.
They were used to a terrible, grim being, devoid of mercy, devoid of pity
(Lord Death on a Horse???). They did not consider Humakt an "evil" as they
would Thanatar, since Humakt and his followers were at least trustworthy, if
scary bastards.
All of a sudden, they find these barbarians running around making Humakt the
epitome of loyalty, honor, courage, justice, etc. Furthermore, Humakti
doctrine in the south was a good deal more similar to Yanafal Tarnils doctrine
than was the northern Humakt's. The result: Duke Sor-Eel is attempting to
recruit Humakti, not necessarily to Yanafal Tarnils, but to the Lunar cause.
Anyway, that's a sort of brief on my opinions of the subject.
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <940129185...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 29 Jan 94 06:54:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2936
In answer to some questions by Devin Cutler:
>1) Can illumination be reversed?
I play no. I also play that a being tainted by chaos cannot be
"cured", the "Pure One" from the puny Zola Fel cult notwithstanding.
>2) Do people know that they have been asked a riddle right away or
>do they feel funny at Sacred Time?
Once more, I play "No" to this one. However, they may get a funny
feeling if they answer the riddle correctly. This doesn't mean they
know they've been "riddled" -- most of my players' characters don't
even know of the existence of the state of illumination.
>3) If illumination cannot be reversed, and if it is the goal of
>riddlers to "infect" other with their riddles, then won't it be true
>that soon all of glorantha will become illuminated? ... If you know
>anything about breeding systems (like bacteria) then you realize
>that even a few riddlers working in concert would eventually
>infect the rest of glorantha
I happen to know a great deal about breeding systems, like bacteria.
Do you suffer from pneumonic plague (the black death)? No? Why not?
It's spread quite readily -- a single sneeze from an infected
individual and you catch it and rapidly become quite infective
yourself! The bacteria breed like crazy. Since it has a 98% death
rate, why aren't we all dead?
Illumination isn't universal because other forces act to slow down
illumination. In CoT, remember that it takes a sacrificed point of
POW to be able to say a certain Riddle. How many Riddles do you
suppose the average Illuminate knows? Ten? Twenty? If he asked every
one of them to a target, the target would only stand a 10-20% chance
of being Illuminated that sacred time, IF he answered all the riddles
correctly. This is a very slow-breeding process. Hence, even in the
Lunar Empire, where Illumination is carefully fostered, the vast bulk
of the inhabitants are not Illuminated (though they are obviously
influenced by Illuminated philosophies).
Let's not forget the existence of numerous effective organizations
devoted to rooting out and destroying Illuminates ...
But we should remember that the ultimate goal of the Lunar Empire is
to illuminate everybody -- and illumination is capable of doing so,
despite the hindrances.
>4) COT states that Arkat was illuminated by the elves of Brithos.
>However, doesn't it seem odd that Arkat would be illuminated by a
>group of elves dwelling in a land that, supposedly, Nysalor's
>influence never reached?
Where does it say that Nysalor's influence never reached Brithos? I
would say that the written documentation is quite the reverse. We
know that his influence made it to Kralorela. Though Brithos was not
part of the Bright Empire, Nysalor obviously had Riddlers there
(presumably elves). It is possible to be an Illuminate without being
part of Nysalor's temporal empire, just as it is possible to be a
follower of the Lunar Way without being part of the Lunar Empire (the
Char-Un, the Blue Moon Plateau, and the Arrolians all being examples
of this).
NAME FIX NEEDED:
Some people persist in spelling the dominant Genertelan racial type
"Wareran". Despite possible misprints of which I am not aware, the
name is "Wereran". I am in hopes that this misspelling can be
corrected before it reaches the level of "Pharoah/Pharaoh", "Lhankor
Mhy/Lankhor Mhy", or "Kahn/Khan".
The Vadeli are considered racially Wereran, as are the Brithini. The
skin color does not reclassify them any more than the near-black skin
of the Dravidian Hindus makes them a non-Caucasian group. Other
features, such as characteristic facies, hair texture, etc. clearly
show that the Vadeli are "true", if aberrant, Wererans.
Joerg Baumgartner sez:
[I said that the only native Genertelan earth culture was the
Praxian]
>You forget the Tarshite and Saird native earth cults.
I don't view these as "real" cultures, but as aberrations from the
norm. There's no doubt such earth-oriented groups all over Peloria
and Kralorela, but I think all of them stem from from an original
Storm or Sun culture. Of course, I know that the Storm and Sun cults
themselves are Godtime "conquerors" of a pre-existing Earth culture,
but I still maintain that the Praxian culture is the only earth
culture in Genertela that stems right from the Godtime without having
been "conquered" by some other dominant way for generations of time.
Waha is manifestly an Earth God, and Storm Bull, far from being a
kingly leader, is in a more-or-less subservient role -- much much
less important and valuable than his mate Eiritha.
You are right that the Golden Age Praxian beast-riders were not the
guys that ran the big civilization in what is now the Chaos Wastes.
At least one thing I read leads me to believe that the Golden Age
folk called in the beast-riders as allies to help them fight chaos.
Apparently the beast riders were old allies of the Golden Age folk
(this does not necessarily negate your belief that they were "pets"),
but I have no idea where the beast riders came from before that.
There is a rumor in Kralorela that they descend from Dragon Hsunchen.
It may even be true. Kralorela has lots of beliefs, though, and they
frequently conflict with one another. Kralorela is far from being a
monolithic society. Rather, it has internalized and formalized its
conflicts, trying to make them into strengths. Certainly the Path of
Immanent Mastery folk wish they were still Dragon Hsunchen.
Brief Notes on Gloranthan Races:
By the way, the Waertagi are considered by most natural philosophers
of Glorantha to be a separate race from the Wereran. But they are too
minor to be included in most lists of Gloranthan racial types
(especially in the Third Age).
The Brithini are sometimes claimed to be the only "pure" humans, and
philosophers that buy this theory sometimes put them apart and
categorize them as a different race. The Malkioni of Jrustela and
western Genertela are clearly just Wererans, and were not dissimilar
to the barbarian inhabitants of Ralios at the Dawn. No doubt they'd
interbred with the locals, which might be one reason they were so
willing to rebel with Hrestol against the oppressive Brithini faith.
>How come there are apparently Agimori Hsunchen? (seeing as they were
made by Lodril and Trickster)
Reason One -- cynical) because all the tales of human origin in
Gloranthan mythology are false false false.
Reason Two -- Doraddi) because the beast-mothers that wanted to spawn
humans naturally emulated the local variety (i.e., Agimori).
Reason Three -- God-Learner) because the Hsunchen folk of Pamaltela
have interbred with the Agimori over the years.
Someone (no name given) says:
>Sandy: Your description of the full story of the Hill of Gold looks
>rather bleak, with virtually no chance for Yelmalio to survive it.
>Yet Yelmalio was present at the dawn, and alive.
Precisely Yelmalio's triumph -- this is why Yelmalio cannot be
expunged from the universe, unlike other weaker gods (like Genert and
Nysalor). He has taken the worst the universe can dish out, and still
stands. He is there at the dawn despite all that happens. That is his
triumph and glory. It may seem "bleak" to a simplistic
storm-worshipper, used to seeing things in a rather Hollywood style,
in which the Good Guys always win, but to the more brooding and
introverted Solar cultists, it's thought as tremendously meaningful.
The Giant Cradle:
> It seems that the 1621 cradle holds the child of Boshbisil the
>Trader and Sa Mita, both described in Griffin Mountain. Yet Sa Mita
>(and Hen Cik) are said to be young giants, merely 80 years or so.
The baby is Gonn Orta's child. I don't think this is a secret, just
not well-known.
>How were they raised, or respectively: why weren't they put into a
>cradle? Do the giants of Rockwood Mountains have a two class system
>similar to Uzuz and Uzko, and only the Uzuz equivalent is sent on
>its childhood heroquest?
There are a number of different species of giants. Not every immense
humanoid is the same type, though ignorant humans classify them as
such. The Jolanti, Gray Giants, man-eaters, and magic giants are all
different types (not that any Gloranthan human fully realizes this).
The man-eating giants described in the rules are one type of giant,
tied to Disorder, and clearly a spawn of Hell.
The magic "good" giants, like Gonn Orta and Thog who raised the walls
of Pavis, are a different species, and they are the guys who send out
the giant cradles. They are almost extinct, now, or turned into
mountains or hills. (remember the Nine Good Giant Mountains?) The
disappearance of the Gold Wheel Dancers in the First Age pretty much
put paid to their breeding opportunities, though they were able to
keep up some breeding into the Second Age.
I'm not sure whether Sa Mita or Hen Cik are "tame" "bad" giants, or
young "good" giants. In the latter case, despite the claims of
Griffin Mountain, they are obviously much much older than 80 years,
and must be at least 700 years old. Or more.
>Does Thog still roam the Rockwoods?
I don't know. I guess I always figured he was killed in battle.
>How could the giants send another cradle down the river?
It's like this -- remember Pinchining? "He" is a Gold Wheel Dancer.
Anyone that knows about Urrgh the Ugly knows the rest of the story.
>BTW: I didn't get around to look this up yet. Is 6 metres the size
>for a 72 year-old giant following normal RQ rules, and what age
>would Boshbisils 12 metres indicate?
RQ I rules indicated a growth rate of 1 SIZ per year. I'm not sure
this is necessarily so, since a blue whale can grow to 30 meters long
in 10-20 years, or less. Boshbisil is probably not a man-eater giant
type, and so his size may have nothing to do with normal giant growth
rates.
Alex Ferguson sez:
>Is it the case that the Seven Mothers are more worshipped in the
>peripheral regions, or is this truer of YA?
The Seven Mothers are most common in the Lunar Periphery, and are
rare or even unknown deep within the empire. They are a
specially-designed Border Cult. I've always thought of Yara Aranis as
an internal Lunar cult -- it's not really that suitable for new
converts to join, so probably only old-time Lunars worship her,
whereas Seven Mothers members are largely converts or children or
grandchildren of converts.
Evidently I've driven Alex Ferguson to madness by not giving him what
info he needs on the Lunar military cults.
POLE STAR: this is an officer's cult. In my view, this cult has only
rune lords, no priests or initiates. It does, however, have lay
members, and a Pole-star worshiping officer would normally require at
least his non-coms to worship this cult. He has a spell that allows
him to choreograph the actions and movements of all of his lay
members at once (much as Pole Star choreographs the star dance). I'm
sure his cult teaches some sort of Tactics skill.
GOLDEN BOW: This cult has initiates and rune lords (who do not get a
1d10 Divine Intervention). He teaches Pureshot, Sureshot, and similar
spells (Firearrow, etc.). In Peloria, his worshipers are organized
into regiments, and are full-time soldiers. In Pent, the cult is a
little more loose.
YANAFAL TARNILS: almost exactly the same as Humakt, with initiates,
Scimitars of Yanaral Tarnils, the same spells, similar Runes (Death,
Truth, and Moon), and even gifts/geases. The gifts/geases are like
Humakt's, but do not include a "distrust other species" geas, and in
general the gifts tend to be a little punier and the geases a little
milder. Other differences: Yanafal Tarnils does not provide a
reusable Sever Spirit, and he has associate cults giving him
additional spells.
>Well of course. The point I was pondering was: is it nececcary (or
>indeed even _possible_) to have a `reincarnation step' between being
>a Yelm guy, and being a D. guy?
I'm not sure what you mean by this. The initiation into the Dayzatar
cult includes a symbolic "death" to your former cult.
>I'd envisaged some sort of entirely abitrary qualification to
>determine sufficient Holiness. Scouring the land for the Holy Child
I'm sure Dayzatar does this sort of thing. Looking for the Holy Child
of Ourania doesn't mean that most Dayzatar members aren't retired
Yelmites.
>Having Dayzatar as a catch-all retirees cult seems dubious to me.
>Yelm already has Yelm the Elder, and are other Solar cults Ellevated
>enough to supply the D. cult with members?
Most retirees from Solar cults don't join Dayzatar. It's a very rare
cult. Yes, other solar cults are elevated enough to supply Dayzatar
with members. Yelm is acceptable, Yelmalio too (as published in
several works -- including those elderly Yelmalio monks who stare at
the sun till they go blind and live in towers -- obviously Dayzatar
worshipers), Ourania is acceptable. Other acceptable cults are:
Lokarnos, Dendara, Chalana Arroy, certain City gods (obviously, Solar
ones -- Pavis won't do), Yelorna, Golden Bow, Hyalor Horsebreaker,
Lorian, etc. etc.
>And the _only_ route to D. membership is this, retirement from a
>Solar cult?
Except for divine revelation or finding the Holy Child or something,
yeah. I'm sure there's all sorts of obscure exceptions.
Oliver Jovanovic & Mike: I have not been able to read your latest
reply to me, because my hard disk saw fit to destroy all my
communications over the last few months. I saw that you had sent me
something, but it now dwells with Genert and Yamsur. *sigh*
Sandy
---------------------
From: 10027...@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Gods of the Moon
Message-ID: <940129122625_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 29 Jan 94 12:26:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2934
_____________
Devin Cutler:
> 1) Can illumination be reversed?
You can try to ignore its effects. But you may fail to convince yourself.
Illumination brings profound psychological problems in its wake, which is
why so many Illuminates go mad.
> 2) Do people know that they have been asked a riddle right away or do
> they feel funny at Sacred Time? If the former, then I find it hard to
> believe that any Riddlers could get away with riddling people without
> instant retribution.
Sacred Time has nothing to do with it. Looks like you're relying on the old
Cults of Terror write-up, rather than the revised and improved version in
Dorastor. This also solves your third problem:
> 3) If illumination cannot be reversed, and if it is the goal of riddlers
> to "infect" other with their riddles, then won't it be true that soon all
> of Glorantha will become illuminated? After all, it will take, on the
> average, about 3 or 4 successful riddles to illuminate someone eventually.
-- as under the new rules, the roll to become illuminated is made each time
a riddle is answered. So telling someone 3 or 4 riddles stands a very small
chance of illuminating them at the time. Mind you, there are a heck of a lot
of Illuminates in Silver Shadow...
Do your players lash out every time someone says something they don't know,
that makes them think? Take them to an Elmal/Yelmalio temple, or a Lhankor
Mhy law moot, or something, and see how they get on. Illumination is a way
of making people think differently. So is communication. I do not think
alarm bells ring in the head of anyone who has just answered a Nysalor
riddle, unless they're the kind of reactionary xenophobic unthinking types
who'd attack *anyone* who questioned their belief systems and world view.
Not like those RQ2-hangover players in any way, I'm sure! <g>
______________
Alex Ferguson:
Danfive Xaron seems to be the most obvious Lunar God of Justice ("or what
passes for Justice in their stinking Empire"). He is the god of the secret
police, etc. Show trials are probably arranged by the Etyries cult, with
their gift for propaganda.
I'd assign Danfive Xaron's cult the Law / Stasis rune, rather than the Truth
rune he's been given in RQ:Adventures in Glorantha. He gives these concepts
a prison-house gloom inside the Empire, associating them with punishment and
restriction, which is all good stuff for Lunar philosophers (i.e: Law is a
form of confinement and constriction, while Chaos is unfettered, boundless
freedom. The sensible, Balanced person opts for a path betwixt and between).
Also, in Blessed Torang his Lunar phase, the Dying Moon, comes on Godsday,
which I'd associate with the Law rune, which is after all the rune of the
Great Compromise (cf. RQ Dailies last summer and "Codex #1" for my thoughts
on variable Lunar phases).
> Is it the case that the Seven Mothers are more worshipped in the
> peripheral regions, or is this truer of YA?
It's true of both. About "the Seven Mothers", though: I think the seven
individual cults are found in the Heartlands, the combined "Seven Mothers
Cult" on the frontier.
> Yanafal Tarnils: what _is_ the structure of this cult?
Use Humakt. Rune Lords are called "Scimitars".
> Does the structure of the cult as worshipped as one of the Mothers
> differ from the cult as a separate entity?
Yes: as a 7M initiate you don't need (and can't take) gifts and geases,
which are compulsory, as in Humakt, for YT initiates. (Isn't it nice that
this god's runes match his initials). Seven Mothers is *like* an associate
cult of all the individual Mothers' cults. Its structure etc. are different
to theirs.
_____________
CREDO Errata:
> Q: I am holding a duplicate of my own Article, which is Refuted
> by a Church Father. Can I then replace my lost Article with the
> one in my hand?
> A: No. See page 6, col 2, para 5.
> I thought that you might be able to replace it anyway, perhaps by
> using your own Church Father. However, the designer and developer
> were quite adamant on this point.
Because it's no fun otherwise. You refute a guy's belief, and he refuses to
give it up? Next thing they'll stop lying down when you say "Bang, you're
dead!". The very roots of our gaming ethos are at stake, here. If a belief
has been refuted, you don't believe it any more.
____________
Boris Mikey:
Wotcher, Boris, me old mate! How's it hanging?
> In the ongoing "Praxian are/are not Hsunchen" discussion, there have
> been several references to "Hrelar Amali". Could some better educated
> Gloranthan scholar please tell me where this is discussed, please?
Try the RuneQuest Companion p.9 (Jonstown Compendium entry 1473), and also
the Seshnela chapter of the Genertela Book. If you don't have these, I'll
copy them out for you next time around.
_________________
Bryan J. Maloney:
> In Dorastor, Humakt took a different aspect. There he is DEATH first
> and foremost, death with honor but DEATH, nonetheless. He is the
> inescapable and terrible TRUTH of DEATH that haunts all beings and
> claims all things. I am of the opinion that this aspect is not just
> Dorastor's but is the more commonly known aspect of Humakt throughout
> Carmania (Dara Happa) ... a terrible, grim being, devoid of mercy,
> devoid of pity
There is a lot of truth in this. There was a phase of Carmanian "chivalry"
when "knights" for a time revered what (in mechanical terms) you could call
the Bright Aspect of Humakt, as opposed to the brutality and atrocities of
their Dark Aspect (similar to Zorak Zoran, and remniscient of Assyrian
warfare). But in the century before the rise of the Red Moon, the Carmanian
Empire was run by barbarian warlords and conquerors, a bunch of complete
bastards who gave the whole Empire a bad name in the history books. Really,
they were much nicer in (say) the tenth and eleventh centuries.
> The result: Duke Sor-Eel is attempting to recruit Humakti, not
> necessarily to Yanafal Tarnils, but to the Lunar cause.
So which Humakti had their tongues cut out to favour the Goddess? (From the
old Pavis Pack).
________________________
News, Views and Reviews:
As many of you know, I enjoyed RQ-Con immensely. It was a real treat to meet
so many fellow-contributors to this Daily, and spend time in such pleasant
company. Come to Convulsion, everyone, and I'll be off to Oakland in '95...
Highlight of the Con: being Prince Temertain again, in the revised and
improved "Home of the Bold": this time with a busy social calendar, doting
Estal, friendly Provost and *loyal* Lunar bodyguard. I'll start work on the
character write-up soon, while it's still fresh.
Plugs, etc:
Mike Dawson's "Codex" is a damn' fine zine. Buy it if you can! (My article
is the weakest thing in it, IMHO). The first issue has loads of good stuff
on the Old Pavic noble houses from Mike Dawson and Martin Crim, together
with an excellent Riskland scenario. It's almost enough to make me want to
return to Pavis. Most of the content is new; some will be familiar to
readers of this Daily, but it's nice to have it in permanent form anyway...
Art is beautiful and well chosen; layout etc. are hunky-dory, though this
DTP'd zine lacks the gritty *character* of Tales or Wyrms Footnotes #1.
Oliver Jovanovic and Mike McGloin gave me a copy of their latest draft for
RQ4: "RuneQuest: Adventures in Glorantha". It looks good, and positively
oozes with Gloranthan sensibilities. Most of my criticisms of the earlier
drafts seem to have been taken into account, and there are several new and
wonderful things in it. Also, a lot of rules seem to have slipped out during
the editing process, which can only be a good thing. I am enthusiastic about
this product.
In California I picked up some copies of "Other Hands", a newish fanzine for
role-players who play in Tolkien's Middle-Earth (using any rules systems:
this is not an ICE house-mag). The most recent issues have RQ stats for wood
woses (#3) and a RuneQuest scenario in Dunland (#4). Production values and
art are good, with occasionally slipshod proofreading; the content has that
obsessively nit-picking attention to detail so typical of Tolkien fans (and
so far removed from we Gloranthan Sages). Worth a look, if you like that
kind of thing. Subscription info probably available from the editor: Chris
Seeman (chri...@aol.com). Tell him Nick sent you.
====
Nick
====
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Mercenary Contract of Leonidas the Short, Wind Voice
Message-ID: <01H89WRR6...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 30 Jan 94 11:58:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2935
This document, based on Duke Raus's mercenary contract in Borderlands, was
used in play during my favourite RQ campaign, GMed by Gary James in 1984-86.
Although it closely resembles Raus's document, a close reading indicates
that those stupid enough sign get very little at all. This was the intent
of Trevor Ackerly, who played the priest Leonidas, and he actually managed to
dupe several other PCs into signing up!
Take particular note of clauses d, e, g, j and k, and comapre with the
original!
(XXIX.14-16.a) Mercenary Contract of Leonidas the Short, Wind Voice of
Orlanth Adventurous: Each hired person will give his complete and utter
loyalty in all matters, whether they lead unto life or death to me and me
only, Leonidas the Short, Wind Voice of Orlanth, vessel for the magics
of Orlanth to come into this world, to sworn in person by the oath of
my choice.
(XXIX.14-16.b) Each warrior agrees to obey all officers appointed by me,
as if they were me, except in matters which countermand orders given by
me.
(XXIX.14-16.c) Each warrior agrees and understands that he places complete
trust in my wisdom, and that my interests include the well-being and trust
of each individual in my employ, and that I will not abuse or needlessly
risk anyone's life, and that risks are taken only for the call of
adventure, the killing of chaos, the meeting of Lightbringer's
obligations, or as it aids and serves to protect every loyal
member of my group.
(XXIX.14-16.d) Each hired warrior will be given adequate time to
provision himself at the nearest marketplace with whatever victuals
are desired; likewise for the care of mounts. Further, I recognize
the obligations of members of the Foundchild Hunter cult to support
themselves, and will allow them one day a week to accomplish this.
(XXIX.14-16.e) I will inform all of my followers one day in advance
of anticipated changes of weather, so that they may provide themselves
with adequate shelter when necessary.
(XXIX.14-16.f) I am an honourable man, and anyone in my employ may have
his own items reviewed by myself or my captain, establishing true and
absolute ownership, which I guarantee not to violate.
(XXIX.14-16.g) I am a just man, so that I will deal harshly with any
who would steal from me, whether they be in my employ or not; such shall
forfeit their life, limbs, soul and goods to my mercy. More, on my word,
I vow to waste no time in supporting the cause of anyone among my ranks
against whom a similar injustice has been committed.
(XXIX.14-16.h) All warriors agree and understand that protection for each
is guaranteed by the strength of the contingent, with the understanding
that the warriors obey instructions to the letter, and that they in no
way behave purposefully with neglect or intent to harm me or my
reputation.
(XXIX.14-16.i) I am Leonidas the Short, Wind Voice of Orlanth
Adventurous and vessel for the magics of Orlanth to come into this world,
and I speak for my God, Orlanth, among whose entourage is Aiolos, a
powerful spirit of the winds whom I have been intimately associated,
and who has the ear of Orlanth; and I speak also for the Runes that
I have mastered. The powers of my gods protect me and mine from
foul broos and krarshtkids, as well as evil sorcery and wicked shamans'
magics. Once, I went to the spirit world where I fought enemy spirits,
those that dared oppose me, and I imprisoned the greatest one to prove
my power...
[In other words, he bound a spirit]
...Another time I bested the four spiritual foes sent against
me by cult enemies, and plundered their power for the glory of Orlanth...
[In other words there was some spirit combat in one adventure]
...Know that am I touched by the Luck Rune, a gift of the gods, and have
spells and enchantments which are fearsome to my enemies...
[Leonidas survived the Plague in the Borderlands Muriah's Revenge scenario,
but ended up with a CON of 2. As he survived the rest of the campaign, which
included the rest of Borderlands, cleaning out Snakepipe Hollow and other
nasty places, as an invalid with only ONE HIT POINT, I think he can claim
Luck's touch!]
In my household lives a Priestess and two nurses of the White Goddess, who
know many spells, prayers and potions, who will keep you hale and hearty.
In repayment for mighty aid given, the Priestess once granted me the power
to once restore a departed soul to its body...
[This is the Healer Errissa Marn from Snakepipe Hollow, whom Leonidas rescued
with a successful cast of a Divine Intervention x1 spell (RQ2). As reward,
he got a one use ressurect spell, and the services of two CA initiates]
...All these will help keep you healthy from enemy gods and devils who are
sent against you for being in my service.
(XXIX.14-16.j) I am a generous man, so that I will allow my employees
to purchase and wear what clothing they wish, as long as it does not
clash with my personal taste, and I will repair and make whole any
weapon or piece of armour damaged while on duty. I will guarantee
the collection or debt of at least five gold wheels worth of spell
training per season, and once per year will place my spell-teaching
abilities at the desires of my employees for one week each. Collection
is made at my pleasure and and is limited to a spell I know. Debt is
cumulative until collected, or it may be paid in cash if it cannot be
otherwise redeemed for the length of one full year. I am a Master of
diverse weapons, skills and arts and alternatively, expert tuition may
be offered in lieu of spell training, at my sole discretion. Each
warrior will also receive a fair share of any loot garnered on a
mission according to the Orlanthi method, and leave of one week is
given between missions.
(XXIX.14-16.k) I am a courageous man, and I often venture into situations
of great danger with my followers for their benefit. Thus I will
assist Lightbringer initiates to bind spirits to prove their power
and increase mine, but only by mutual agreement between both parties.
I understand well the dangers involved, so that I forbid any warrior
to undertake this journey to the spirit plane without my consent. In
exchange, each warrior agrees to recognize me as their heir. In the
event of my own demise, my goods shall become the property of the
Orlanth Adventurous Temple, with my heir being the first of my
followers to attain the status of Wind Lord of Orlanth.
(XXIX.14-16.l) Finally, I am a wise and pious man, and I ask that
none but the faithful attend my weekly services to Orlanth, but those
that do shall recognize me as their priest and make proper tithe. The
White Goddess had given me the power to bestow the gift of life once,
and members of my congregation become eligible for this blessing,
especially if they die in my service. I will not misuse this ability
on unbelievers, nor without the recommendation of my captain.
You may count, however, that I will balance well the worthiness of
the brave and the unlucky for I know well the curse of death. I will
double the pay of any Orlanth initiate; but I will not allow those
without the cult to have or use swords, nor will I repair such; for
the sword is the Air's weapon. Air Rune cultists may petition me for
exemption to this rule, which I may or may not grant, as I see
fitting. However, I promise to act as sponsor for any suitable
person in my employ, should they wish to join the ranks of those who
worship the Winds.
(XXIX.14-16.m) Now I demand oath and seal of you, by the recitation
of the following: By all that is truth and honour I swear by the lungs
that give me life, my legs that give me movement, my mind that gives me
magic, and by my hands that give me mastery that I will give faith and
fealty to Leonidas the Short, Wind Voice of Orlanth and vessel for the
magics of Orlanth into this world , until I am honourably released from
this service, or death take me, or the world shall end.
(XXIX.14-16.n) Signature, Oath or Sign of the Mercenary.
[copied from Book XXIX of the Nochet Collectanea]
MOB
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Yu-Kargzant; Shargash
Message-ID: <1994012919...@radiomail.net>
Date: 29 Jan 94 19:57:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2937
>From: ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink)
>However, Kargzant is still worshipped as
>"Yu-Kargzant" by the Grazelanders, and (I deduce) the Pentans.
I'm pretty sure the Grazers worship differently than the Pentans (who are
after all the False Sun-Horses). The Pentans were probably polluted by
their contact to the Dara Happan sun gods, and would have adopted their
ways (since Yu-Kargzant is described as being a less powerful sun god).
I've heard that the Yelm cult as written up is pretty much a Pentan
variety. We know the Grazers don't worship Yelm by that name, and have
separate deities for different age groups, not merely different
aspects/subcults of Yelm. (Of course, Dastal, Jardan, Henird, and Josad
correspond closely to the Pentan subcults of Yelm the Rider, Yelm the
Warrior, Yelm the Leader, and Yelm the Elder. A Jrusteli God-Learner might
try to call them the same, but this would horrify Grazers or Pentans.)
In Glorious ReAscent of Yelm, it's apparent that Kargzant is a separate
celestial body (not nearly as bright as Yelm). Kargzant doesn't seem to be
visible any longer (not mentioned in Elder Secrets, at least). There are
three explanations: 1) it no longer exists; 2) it still shines, but Yelm is
so much brighter you can never see Kargzant; 3) the pitiful (but shiny)
portion of Yelm that went to Hell was reunited with Kargzant after Orlanth
made atonement. The reunited deity is now known as Yu-Kargzant. The Grazers
obviously believe #3, and point out that before the bright sun was emodied
in Yu-Kargzant, it didn't move across the sky dome.
Of course, unlike the Dara Happans, the Grazers don't consider Kargzant the
Nomad to be a rebel deity.
> Does anyone else think that Shargash is Umath and/or Orlanth? After
>all, Umath is a child of the Sky.
Shargash is a son of Yelm and Dendara; are you being taken in by "Shargash
the Thunderer?" "Shargash met Umatum [Umath, most likely] in battle and
sent him crashing to the earth." "When Umatum came to fight ... Shargash
turned the Destroyer away without the rebel even knowing what occurred.
Since then, no rebel of the Umatum family can stand still or go in a
straight line." This sounds like an explanation of how Air gods are the way
they are. Shargash appears more to be elemental War (runes are probably
Death, Disorder, and Fire).
>From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
>What a proper Humakti is depends entirely on WHERE that Humakti is (or more,
>accurately, where that Humakti came from and joined the cult).
Yes.
David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206 783 7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddu...@radiomail.net
"I say we should listen to the customers and give them what they want."
"What they want is better products for free." --Scott Adams
---------------------
From: oka...@hpcc101.corp.hp.com (Jeff Okamoto)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 29 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940129204...@hpcc101.corp.hp.com>
Date: 29 Jan 94 20:42:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2938
> From: dev...@aol.com
> Subject: Re: Missing RQ Dailies and Illumination
>
> 1) Can illumination be reversed?
I would say not easily. Once you know that Darth Vader is Luke's father,
it's hard to watch Star Wars again and thinking of him as "evil incarnate",
rather than victim of the Dark Side.
> 2) Do people know that they have been asked a riddle right away?
I highly doubt it. In CoT, Oddi didn't know it, and he was Storm Bull.
I think of a Nysalor Riddle kind of like one of Larry Niven's stories,
"What Good is a Chocolate-Covered Manhole?", in which the antagonist asks
thought-provoking questions in order to determine if the answerer is truly
intelligent or not. In this case, it's to see if the answerer is totally
closed to the concept of Chaos and Order being similar.
Another idea from the story: strap blocks of ice to your feet and skate on
a rink of knife-sharp blades. Or, was the Garden of Eden just another
civilization's way of hastening human evolution?
Personal question: what OTHER shape besides
a circle will not fall into a hole of its own shape? For instance, a
square-shaped manhole cover would fall into the hole if it was turned
diagonally. So will a triangle. A circle will not, but there's at least
one more shape that will not.
> 3) If illumination cannot be reversed, and if it is the goal of riddlers to
> "infect" other with their riddles, then won't it be true that soon all of
> Glorantha will become illuminated?
Who said their goal was to Illuminate all Glorantha?
And don't forget about the Arkati.... In some ways, they're like fascists,
attempting to keep "foreign thoughts" from the general populace. Taking this
idea further, the Arkati are arrogantly decadent, keeping Illumination only
to themselves.
> So, until trollkin become Death Lords......
Now this would be an interesting HeroQuest....
Jeff
---------------------
From: j...@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: Stirrups, HotB, Dara Happa and Humakt
Message-ID: <940130005...@hp0.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 30 Jan 94 00:55:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2939
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2915
>>
>> johnjmedway asks:
>> >Do they have stirrups? Who does have stirrups?
>>
>> Greg and I both concur that stirrups are available everywhere in
>> Genertela in the Third Age. My own belief is that stirrups were
Fair enough. The art ( all there has been to go on ) has varied, though:
Foes, p.83 shows stirrups used by the zebra and rhino riders, and shows
the impala, bolo lizard and unicorn riders without. The altecamelus, sable
and bison riders are partially obscured, and make it impossible to tell.
RQ Companion, cover shows a bison rider with stirrups.
Genertela book shows the Pentan without.
MOB in X-RQ-ID: 2913
>> Subject: Back in the land Down Under (where women glow and men chunder...)
Another "divided by a common language" bit: "chunder"?
>> Well Su and I are safely returned from our 6 week US odyssey, and reeling
>> with shock at the antipodean heatwave we are now experiencing. Using
>> the Fahrenheit scale, yesterday it was exactly *one hundred degrees* warmer
>> here than it was in New Jersey just over two weeks ago, when we were
This is a good thing, yes?
>> fellow!" (As he *failed* to light the flame, why bother upsetting
>> Gordius's Grand Design which was progressing so nicely at that
>> stage?)
Which was?
>> *My wife Su, a resolute non-gamer, enjoying herself in Home of the Bold as
>> the Lunar Tax Collector.
Maybe we can convert her the rest of the way.
>> also finishing up Gordius's defense speech at the Lunar
>> Inquisitorial Commission, held to work out who to blame for the events
Ah, you *were* apprehended in Casino Town! Err, I mean rescued.
Good that you made it out. Hmm, maybe we should coordinate our stories.
Keep us all in decent condition ( un-crucified, not in a Danfive Xaron
Penal regiment, ... ).
>> at Boldhome. I'm confident Gordius will get out of this unharmed,and
>> maybe even with a promotion (it's a shame the only priest with Truth
The heat wave has made you delerious, my good man. Sit down and drink
something cool.
Paul Anderson in X-RQ-ID: 2917
>>
>> 2. Many proper names are formed with suffixes -ela (like Genertela) and -i,
>> like Kralori, Basmoli. What Gloranthan language are they from? if they are, as
>> I suspect, Jrusteli, what was the contemporary name of the High council of
>> Genertela? what is the native name of Kralorela (Hsi-hia?) etc. etc.
There was a little bit of discussion on this a while back. The -i of Genertela,
and the -o of Pamaltela were assumed to be from the form Tradetalk took in those
regions. Which one was the Godlearner's original form? I'd guess -i.
I'd say the Holy Country should use -im ( per Nick ? ), and the Ygg Islanders
use -inga ( per Joerg ), and other languages and cultures should have their
own forms.
As for -ela, and -ite, and -an, I don't know.
al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk in X-RQ-ID: 2928
>>
>> > guess ), the original 10 cities of Dara Happa were quite Solar.
>>
>> That makes sense: but what, for reference, are said cities? All the big
>> 'uns apart from Glamour and Red Fish?
Probably not. I'm afraid I was out of cash when the GRoY went around at the
Con, but I know that the other seven ( other than Alkoth, Yuthuppa & Raibanth )
were destroyed. Some may have been rebuilt, but whether the names or locations
changed, I don't know.
Damn, need to call up Wizard's Attic, I suppose.
>> > Antirius has been accused of being a Dara Happan analog of Yelmalio.
>> > There *are* some myth patterns in common, but there are as certainly
>> > many which are not.
>>
>> I've just /'d through my mailbox for references to Antirius, and I can't
>> say they help a lot. Anyone care to give us a run-down on this cult?
What I remember from what I read last summer, and what I've heard since then:
Antirus was a son of Yelm, but had no mother. He ruled over the Dara Happan
empire until he was wounded at the Hill of Gold. Unlike Yelmalio, he died of
his wounds, and the empire passed on to ___. ( Sorry, it's been a few months. )
Not a frontier god, like (Y)elmal(io) is normally considered.
Bryan J. Maloney in X-RQ-ID: 2933
>>
>> The following summarizes my opinions on Humakt/Humakti. It also explains the
>> fact that Yanafal Tarnils is more popular than is Humakt among the Lunars
>> (other than his Seven Mothers status, of course).
>>
>> In Dorastor, Humakt took a different aspect. There he is DEATH first and
>> foremost, death with honor but DEATH, nonetheless. He is the inescapable
>> and terrible TRUTH of DEATH that haunts all beings and claims all things.
>> I am of the opinion that this aspect is not just Dorastor's but is the more
>> commonly known aspect of Humakt throughout Carmania (Dara Happa). I allow
This sounds about the same as the way Greg described Humakt in Sartar,
when we spoke back at Origins. These guys are respected, but they are
*feared* as well.
I would still have problems fearing a duck, though.
Until he sliced me up, that is.
>> All of a sudden, they find these barbarians running around making Humakt the
>> epitome of loyalty, honor, courage, justice, etc. Furthermore, Humakti
>> doctrine in the south was a good deal more similar to Yanafal Tarnils doctrine
>> than was the northern Humakt's. The result: Duke Sor-Eel is attempting to
>> recruit Humakti, not necessarily to Yanafal Tarnils, but to the Lunar cause.
I like.
Niggling detail, though: it's Count Sor-Eel, unless things have gone better
for him in your campaign, than in the official history.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| john_...@zycor.lgc.com | Landmark Graphics Corp | 512.292.2325 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: ka...@ICD.Teradyne.COM (Jim Katic)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 28 Jan 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <940130013...@attain.ICD.Teradyne.COM>
Date: 30 Jan 94 01:34:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2940
Your subject line:
RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 28 Jan 1994, part 2
is NEVER the same because of the "part x" stuff. Would you PLEASE put
that in the body of the item so that I could kill the entire thread
easier??
Jim Katic
---------------------
From: ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: Blueskins
Message-ID: <1994013009...@panix.com>
Date: 29 Jan 94 23:26:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2941
ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28) () writes:
R>There seem to be three major and a few minor variants of the Man Rune
>(human races): The Wareran, Agimori and Eastern types each spawned a number
>of Hsunchen races, the minor ones (Veldang, Vadeli [who are listed as
>Warerans in Genertela Player Book if I remember correctly]) apparently did
>not.
WARNING: THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IS KNOWN ONLY TO GOD-LEARNERS
AND THE BRITHINI
The Vadeli and Veldang are the same race -- note that the "missing"
caste of the Vadeli are blueskinned. Greg's unpublished "Lunar Book"
mentions the conquest of Peloria by blueskins in the God Time.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: dev...@aol.com
Subject: RQ3 annoying rules questions
Message-ID: <940130052...@aol.com>
Date: 30 Jan 94 10:20:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2942
Thought I'd toss off a few annoying questions re RQ3 rules (even though the
RQ4 rules will address a lot of these problems):
a) To bind a spirit with Spirit Magic requires casting of Control Spirit.
This spell requires one to engage a spirit in combat and defeat it BEFORE the
spell is cast. The problem is, Magic Spirits, Spell Spirits, Power Spirits,
and Intellect Spirits cannot engage in spirit combat. Therefore, how does an
enterprising young spellcaster capture and bind such spirits? In other words,
how d
oes the caster initiate combat with spirits that cannot engage in such
combat?
b) When a limb is maimed or severed, is the seven day limit to cast Regrow
Limb still in effect. The RQ3 rules don't set any such limit. Does this mean
there is no limit? That would essentially mean that no one would eve
r lose a limb permanently in RQ3 Glorantha.
c) There is a sentence in Sun County implying that Healing 2 is still needed
to stop bleeding, but RQ3 rules seem to imply that ANY Healing (even 1 po
int) will stop bleeding. Which is correct?
d) Does one add one's Magic Bonus to the chance to cast Spirit Magic? Sun
Countyshows the bonus added, but other scenarios do not, and the RQ3 Magic
Book does not address this directly. It does say so explicitly for Sorcery,
implying that it does not therefore app
ly to Spirit Magic. Does the bonus also apply to Divine Magic?
e) RQ3 Creatures book says that Vampires cannot use Spirit Magic or Divine
Magic, yet the Vampire in the Sun County scenario has Divine Magic, and it is
implied that he could cast Spirit Magic had he not forgotten all of his
spells. Which is correct? Also, RQ3 mentions none of the vampire's Rune
Spell-sucking ability from RQ2 and from Sun
County. Is this ability still intact?
f) When an impaling weapon criticals, does it do maximum impaling damage,
ignoring armour? In other words, if a Composite Bow Criticals, does it do 18
points of damage ignoring armour? The rules imply this, but it seems to make
impaling weapons very dangerous.
Why would anyone want ot use anything else?
g) When a Chalanna Arroy is resurrecting someone, she must engage the
departing spirit is spirit combat. May she use Spirit Block and other such
speÿlls? If so, it would be almost impossible for the Chalanna Arroy to lose such
a combat.
h) For that matter, when a cult initiate is learning a spell from a Cult
Spell Spirit, can he use Spirit Block
and other such spells? Again, if this were true, no initiate would ever lose
such combats.
i) What happens when one spirit fights another in spirit combat? Do they
have to both be Visible per the spell? Can they damage each other
permanently? What happens to a spirit when it is beaten down to zero MP,
aside from its susceptibility to binding? Is it "unconscious"? Also, can a
Visible spirit be affected by a b
asilisk gaze?
j) Is long-term fatigue regained like short-term fatigue? By long term, I
mean the 1 fatigue point lost per hour of Ritual or the 1 fatigue point per
hour lost due to marching long distances. It seems ludicrous that 12 fatigue
points lost during a 12 hour ritual are regained in an average of 12MR (2
minutes).
I have a Daka Fal Priest in my campaign, and many questions have arisen regar
ding his abilities:
a) When you summon an ancestor, how long does it stick around for? 15
minutes seems way too short for a ritual that could take up to 24 hours to
perform, but forever is ridic
ulous.
b) How long DOES it take to summon an ancestor? 1 Hour per MP of the spirit?
c) How exactly does Axis Mundi work? It says that all Summon spells are
treated like ordinary Rune Magic. This is VERY vague. Does that caster still
have to make his Summoning %, or merely the 01-95 roll for all other Rune
Magic? Does the Summon Spell take 1 MR to cast or still take however long it
normally takes (see question e above)? If the caster fails to cast the Summon
Spell, is the spell used up, like regular Di
vine Summoning spells, or can he try again next MR like normal Divine Magic?
d) How exactly does the Visibility spell work? Does it make a single Spirit
Visible or all spirits within range Visible? What if you only want some of
the spirits within range to be Visible? For that matter, you must generally
see the target of a spell to cast the spell upon it. By definition, you don't
see the target of the Visibility spell until AFTER it has been cast? How does
this happen? What happens if you randomly cast a Visibility spell and 2
random spirits are floating around in the area, which one is made Visible?
e) Do spirits gain POW-gain rolls for overcoming targets' MP's? If so, which
spirits? If so
, is it the old RQ2 5% chance, or is it normal chance?
f) What happened to the Lunar Scimitar! In the Genertela Pack Book 3 for
generating a Lunar character, Scimitar is nowhere to be found! Sickle i
s hardly an adequate replacement. What gives?
g) Has anyone ever worked out a system for determining if a resurrect spell
is available at any given moment. Certainly, with accidents and marauding
nomads, et al, the four priests at Pavis must be constantly using their
spells? How do the Chalanna Arroy decide who is worthy of such limited
resources? Do they cast it on people on a first-come-first serve basis? If
so, I pity the important Orlanthi noble who dies right after a peasant has
been brought in for resurr
ection! In fact, how does anyone near a Chalanna Arroy temple ever die except
by old age?
h) How do people assassinate others in Glorantha? Death is not permanent, so
the soul as well as the bod
y must be destroyed. I can think of a few ways:
1) Dip the blade in Blade Venom and expose i
t to Soul Waste
2) Use acid, enough to destroy the entire body
3) Invent POW destroying
poisons
The rules for resurrection also imply that if the head is severed,
resurrection cannot
occur. However, there are no rules for severing heads or vitals in RQ3. How
is this done?
i) What are the exact benefits that a Priest gets over an Acolyte? Until I
know, I cannot figure out why anyone would be the former.
j) Can Magic Spirits be taught other spells? Also, do Sorcery-oriented Magic
and Spell spirits also have Intensity, Duration, Range, Multispell, etc? What
if a spirit knows a ritual; how can it cast the spell, since it has no body
and presumably cannot perform many of the dances, gestures, etc. required by
such?
k) Does the endurance spell erase long term endurance like that from marching
or casting rituals. If so, it is an awesome spell, for even one point of the
spell can allow a caster to d
o ceremony indefinately, without tiring.
l) Why am I asking so many questions? Didn't anyone playtest RQ3, especially
the spirit rules and Daka Fal rules?
Devin Cutler
dev...@aol.com
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Live Action Trollball - The Supertroll '94
Message-ID: <01H8B8HP4...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 31 Jan 94 10:44:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2943
LIVE ACTION TROLLBALL AT RQ CON, OR HOW I WENT TO VALIND'S GLACIER AND LIVED
By MOB
It's 9 am and 9 degrees, Fahrenheit. While sensible RQ Con goers were
safely tucked away in bed after Saturday night's drinking and
debauchery (hi Nick), me, Nils Hammer, half-a-dozen mad trolls and
about a dozen even madder spectators braved the elements and went
OUTSIDE for the inaugural North American Live Action Trollball
Championship (the Supertroll, if you will).
Live Action Trollball is of course loosely based on the Trollball game
presented in RuneQuest's TROLLPAK, "a gonzo trans-dimensional mutation
of American football". The live-action game has been a staple at some
Aussie cons for years - for a detailed write-up see John Hughes's article
in Tales of the Reaching Moon issue #8, from which I have plundered
certain parts below.
For the game's American debut, Nils and I fine-tuned the "rules" late
on Saturday night, our creative juices aided by the gargantuan troll-
food meal from Eat at Geos a few hours earlier (plus a few stout ales).
Valind did his best to keep all but the heartiest from taking the field,
and so we only ended up with three players per side, however one of these
was a true MISTRESS RACE troll. The dozen or so spectators were amply
served by a troll-food cafeteria (a large pile of appetising stones on
the sidelines), and were actively encouraged to throw snow-balls at the
players on the arena. The playing area itself was in true trollish
fashion irregularly shaped and bordered by trees, about 30 yards long.
Weapons ranged from rolled-up hats and scarves to inflatable replicas of
Munch's "The Cry" and a five foot long blow-up Stegasaurus. To ensure
all weapons were safe, all players were required to beat themselves over
the head for one minute. Sadly, once out in the below-freezing air, none
of the inflatables lasted the distance, and the players wielding them
were reduced to using them more like flails or whips than clubs.
The game was hard-fought, with rampant cheating on both sides
occasionally punished by kicks from the giant referees (Nils and I).
Peter Maranci's Bozztown Bashers were the eventual winners after scoring
a goal in the dying seconds of the game, following a brilliant play where
an attempted Befuddle was capably blocked by Countermagic. Shortly after
the final goal was scored, the trollkin almost lost its head.
So great was the Bozztown Bashers' victory in the inaugural Supertroll
that their opponents' names have been erased from history (sorry, it was
so damn cold I think the ink in my pen packed up and my brain was
numb). Players on the both sides won a chance at the Dart Competition
at the close of the con, but I would like to immortalise their names
here on the daily. Would the frostbitten five who joined Peter come
forward and achieve trollball Fame of Hall status!
For those of you itching to take part, the second North American Supertroll
will be held in balmier climes at RQ Con 2. Near a swimming pool
hopefully. Proud sponsor is Argan Lager, the troll beer that corrodes
the parts human beers can't reach!
For those of you who can't wait til then, here's
DA RULES
1. Trollball is a ROLESPORT: more than scoring goals or dismembering
trollkin, roleplaying is what makes this the sport of heroes. As John
wistfully reminds us, "...it's the chants, the insults, the songs, the
rubber chickens, the facepaint, the Kyger Lager t-shirts and the random
attacks on spectators that make Trollball such a satisfying experience.
In trollball, you learn to appreciate the beauty and poetry that dwells
in the heart of an Uz."
2. Play begins with the giant referee standing in the centre of the field
and throwing the trollkin in a random direction. How random might depend
on who the giant wants to win or other unfathomable reasons - such is the
nature of disorder!
3. The game is played at Walking Pace, yes WALKING PACE. When moving,
imagine you're SIZ 28, lumbered with a huge gut and weighed down by a
rock gizzard still disgesting that dwarf from last night. Better still,
imagine you're a Ray Harryhausen Dynamation(tm) monster - think of "Clash
of the Titans", or better still "Jason and the Argonauts" or any of his
"Sinbad" movies. Move at several frames per second. And don't forgot to
growl a lot.
Moving too fast is punished by getting kicked by the giant referee.
4. Any palpable hit on a location takes out that location. What do we
mean by "palpable"? In a nutshell, any hit that gives a satisfying THUD.
If you get hit on an arm, you drop whatever you're carrying (weapon,
trollkin body part, whatever). If you get hit on a leg, you fall down, but
can still drag yourself around. If you get hit on the body or head, you're
down and out for the count. You can still growl and scream, but one of
your teammates will have to drag you to one of the Healers on the
sidelines.
5. Healing. Unless you know a Heal spell, any time you're injured you've
got to get yourself to one of the beautiful Xiola Umbar priestesses at
the sidelines. They'll touch the location and you'll be fine, ready to
leap in and crack heads again. If you are so badly discommoded that you
can't get to the sides under your own steam (eg. taken a hit to the body
or head, lost both legs, drunk too much Powzie, etc.) one of your teammates
will have to drag you over.
6. The trollkin. Australian experience has shown that using a small human
(eg. a 13 year old Warmallet player) as a fill-in trollkin proves to
be unsatisfactory. Humans proved difficult to dismember and it became
hard to recruit further volunteers. A good substitute is a large rag
doll whose limbs and head are attached to the body with strips of
velcro. The trollkin is considered "alive" as long as the head
remains attached. (At RQ Con our trollkin's head was more securely
attached, so we played it that if it lost two or more limbs it was
dead). If the trollkin "dies" then the referee puts it back together
and begins a new play.
7. The referee. The giant referee can punish infractions (real or
presumed) by kicking the offending player. The player then RUNS 30
paces in the direction specified, and can then shamble at troll speed
back to the game shamefaced but angry. Don't forget to pelt him
spectators!
8. Magic. Magic? Trollball doesn't allow magic I hear you say! Of course
it doesn't, but then again it does add extra spice to the game. Just don't
let the giant referee catch you.
The magic system for Live Action Trollball is incredibly simple, more as
a result of Nils and I thinking it up on the fly on Saturday night than
from any special insight. Here's how it works. Each player draws 3
random slips of paper with the names of spells on them. To cast a spell,
take out the piece of paper, shout what spell you're casting, screw up
the piece of paper into a ball and throw it at your target. If it hits
the target, the spell works! Throw the screwed up paper at yourself if
that's who you want to effect. Spells are only usable once - once
you've screwed 'em up they're gone.
Here's a list of the spells we used at the RQ Con Supertroll:
*HEAL - restores one location.
*BEFUDDLE - act like you're on Dreamweed til someone belts you.
*DISRUPT - destroys the location hit by the bit of paper.
*JUMP (self only) - once cast, game stops and the player is allowed to
take 20 steps in one direction. Play then resumes.
*MOBILITY - move at jogging pace for a while.
*SLOW - move at 2 frames per second for a while.
*DISPEL - negate effect of one spell (except Disrupt or Heal).
*COUNTERMAGIC - use if hit by an incoming spell. Negates that spell.
Finally as John Hughes says, in trollball, it is a matter of honour
that each team has a ritual chant, as well as play chants and threats.
Team mascots are also important, but since they are eaten by the winning
team, this does not translate well into live action rolesport.
I'll leave you with John's team, the Bhagwhan's Broobashers team chant,
sung(?) to the tune of the twelve days of Christmas.
"On the first day of trollball, the giant referee, kicked a berserk
zorak zorani.
On the second day of trollball, the giant referee, kicked two scrawny
Enlo, and a berserk zorak zorani.
And on... the entire song is
twelve Sons of Karg,
'leven 'Umber Mindlinks,
ten giant maggots
nine Spi-der Masters
eight jars of POWZIE,
seven trollkin burgers,
six Homboboboms...
I Fought We Won...
Four Gor-a-ki-ki
three Uzko blockers
two scrawny Enlo
and a berserk Zorak Zorani.
Each player takes a line. If they forget, they substitute something like
"I can't remember", "Pansy Cha-os Elves", "Blunt Wea-pons only", or the
immortal "Blad-ger, My Axe".
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Yet more Hsunchen speculations
Message-ID: <H.ea.5&HCNs...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 30 Jan 94 14:24:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2944
David Dunham in X-RQ-ID: 2922
[Me]
>>Votanki from Balazar might be seen as Dog-Hsunchen
>which I also don't see. They don't turn into dogs. Dogs are their friends
>and allies but not something they particularly worship.
Ref: Dorastor - Land of Doom p.119
The Telmori "hold permanent rivalries only with the dog-people of
Balazar and the cat-people of Dragon Pass."
Of course the main reason for this rivalry may be the fact that these
animals (!) have strayed from the Hsunchen path by letting themselves
become domesticated, and therefore aren't able to transfer their
special magics to their human counterparts, something like partial loss
of the Beast Rune.
Same for Praxian herd animals, and cattle, horse and sheep.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Joerg again
Message-ID: <H.ea.Txk...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 30 Jan 94 14:24:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2945
Boris in X-RQ-ID: 2930
> Okay, I give up. Maybe I'm overlooking something obvious, but I can't
> find the reference. In the ongoing "Praxian are/are not Hsunchen"
> discussion, there have been several references to "Hrelar Amali". Could
> some better educated Gloranthan scholar please tell me where this is
> discussed, please?
A quick look into my database yielded for Hrelar Amali:
$GB 70f; $RQC 9 (JTC 1473); $KoS 72
(Genertela Book, RuneQuest Companion: Jonstown Compendium, King of Sartar)
City of the gods, built where Flamal was cut down by Zorak Zoran and buried.
Now holds temples to each and any deity of Glorantha.
If anyone has a pressing question like that and can use this kind of info,
email me directly. Only a short note, please, since I pay for my mail.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: prha...@aol.com
Subject: HeroQuesting again (by Paul Harmaty)
Message-ID: <940130094...@aol.com>
Date: 30 Jan 94 14:49:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2946
At RQ-Con Greg Stafford stated he could find no Humakti willing to go on a
Humakt HeroQuest where he is guaranteed to meet Humakt (and thereby die).
John Medway and Bryan Maloney have been kind enough to reply to my posting
regarding reluctant Humakti Heroquesters. Their insight into the cult(s) was
appreciated but neither of these gentlemen provided me with an answer that
satisfied.
My unstated supposition was that the HeroQuest would involve something that
was of great significance to Humakt. After all,
it isn't every HeroQuest that puts you face to face with your God. If the
HeroQuest places
you at your God's side, isn't that as good as it gets for a devote follower
(John, I wouldn't expect the less than fanatical to take up this quest).
Perhaps I expected too much from the HeroQuest.
If it was a Monty Haul affair I wouldn't expect ANYONE to take up the
challenge.
If a devot
e Stormbull worshiper must die while assisting his God defeat the Devil,
wouldn't he? Perhaps S.B. HeroQuesters routinely die to ensure that this
myth/history is never changed. I think they would. Woul
d Humakt's followers not die to preserve their God's existence / place in the
cosmos? This se
ems sacrilegious IMO.
In the grand scheme of things wouldn't a God's followers support their Go
d even onto death? I envision this type of 'ritual' (not actual) death to
take place all the time during Sacred Time when the myths are reenacted to
ensure the continuance of the universe. If the HeroQuest was an extention of
these myths that required a real death, wouldn't someone take up the call and
stride onward towards his destiny?
So.... given that it would have to be a noble cause / righteous
death / yada, yada... what would cause a true believer to avoid this
HeroQuest?
---------------------
From: dev...@aol.com
Subject: Re Illumination and Dorastor Land of Doom
Message-ID: <940130142...@aol.com>
Date: 30 Jan 94 19:25:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2947
Well, I reread Dorastor Land of Doom and found that some of my Illumination
questions had been answered via changes from the COT write-up.
Specifically, it states that no longer is one's illumination skill rolled for
each Sacred Time. I hated this rule because it meant that someone with a mere
3% in Illumination would become illuminated inside of 33 years. This led to
my theory that by now almost everyone in Glorantha should have been
illuminated.
DLOD also states that Illumination originated from Rashoran, thereby
providing a reason why Arkat could be illuminated without influence from
Nysalor.
Also, DLOD states that Illumination can come from poems, plays, songs, even
objects...not just riddles.
Finally, it seems that an Illuminate can deny his Illuminated state. Almost
as if, while his mind knows that illumination is a valid paradigm, his heart
still clings to the old ways of thinking. This means that many il
luminates would probably not want to spread their "curse" to others.
Thanks to the DLOD people for cleaning up an intriguing but rather messy area
of Glorantha.
Further to DLOD, in the descr
iption of the Hungry Eater on page 76 it mentions that it has the attack of
"Inversion", yet the description for this attack is nowhere to be found. Can
anyone tell me what this power is. It sounds nasty, but if it isnt, then the
Hungry Eater may be one of the few Special Encounters in Dorastor that a
party could defeat (although not bloody likely).
Finally in the writeup of Ralzakark on page 81 it mentio
ns that he has the ability to summon up the "Sky Terror". What is this? It
sounds mean.
Devin Cutler
dev...@aol.com
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Various
Message-ID: <940130212...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 30 Jan 94 21:26:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2948
Subject: Descent of Praxian Man
(This got bounced due to a typo, but here it is again - Paul)
Sandy writes:
>The Praxians don't descend from Eiritha. Their beasts do.
Uhh... I thought all Khans had to have at least a trace of blood from
Waha, and thought Waha was the son of Eiritha and Storm Bull.
Please give the correct geneaolgy for Waha.
Thanks,
Paul Reilly
-------------------
Paul Reilly, replying to Alex Ferguson.
>Yanafal Tarnils: what _is_ the structure of this cult? I've seen more
>cult rank titles than you could shake a fist at: Rune Lord, Iron Lord,
We've always called them Scimitars - this seems so obvious that I will only
comment if asked.
Replying to Boris:
> discussion, there have been several references to "Hrelar Amali". Could
Hrelar Amali is referred to in the Genertela Book of the Glorantha Box,
either in the Seshnela or Ralios section, under 'Places of Interest'. It
is a holy site of Earth cults, I believe, and a ruined city. I think that
the ruins glow at night (I think this is official.)
-------------
Replying to Malcolm:
> Does anyone else think that Shargash is Umath and/or Orlanth? After
Interesting question. I think that they are originally separate, then
many of their stories got conflated. Umath and Orlanth both appear under
cognates of their Orlanthi names elsewhere in GRoY.
-----------------
Replying to johnjmedway:
The Lunar Magic requirement is that you must be an Initiate of the
Red Goddess. The cult requires that the Initiate be Illuminated, be
approved by the Examiners, and be either a Rune Level of a Lunar Cult,
or be a Master of either two or three (I forget) Ritual Magic skills.
These stringent requirements protect the Goddess from being adversely
affected by inferior worshippers. Look what happened to Zorak Zoran ---
he used to be smart.
-----------
Replying to Brian J. Maloney:
Good comments on Humakt.
In our campaign Humakt varies all the way from the Honorable Warrior
of Sartar, to the Inexorable Death of the North, to the sore-covered
Son of Mallia in Karn Ramal. (That last is where Chalana Arroy is also the
sister of Ikadz...)
Look at Earth history for weird variations of gods in various regions and
times. Compare the Creator of Bogomilism to that of Catholicism, for
example - both under the Christian umbrella, which must be VERY wide.
Support locally variant deities!
On the other hand, I do like to think that deities have some underlying
reality - they can be influenced by their worshippers, but in some sense
we are seeing different aspects of the SAME beings. If the Gods are 'just
stories' I would rather play on Earth.
-----------------
I always assumed Pure Horse tribesmen hunted game and gathered plants as
well. The Great Hunts of the Mongols are sucha part of their culture that
I didn't want to deny the Pentans the same excitement...
> 1) Can illumination be reversed? Un
I don't think so - not without wiping out the memories of the person, at
least. I think Illuminates have access to fundamental insights, the question
is whether they can handle this.
>2) Do people know that they have been asked a riddle right away or do they
Certainly not, in the story in Cults of Terror - Oddi the Keen, a Storm
Khan, doesn't realize what has happened to him until much later. I don't
know about the current material though. You are right, it is more logical
if people DON't necessarily know, given stuff we've been told about Riddlers
secretly 'corrupting' people. However, that could all be Orlanthi/Wakbothi
propaganda.
>3...
I don't think most Illuminates want to 'infect' others.
> This seems to suggest that Illumination has an origin more basic
than that of Arkat and Nysalor
Definitely. Yelm is Illuminated before Nysalor (I think) and Rashoran
Illuminated Uleria, Humakt and Yelmalio in GodTime. Of course, Yelmalio
didn't even exist in GodTime, nowadays - I'm so confused.
---------
Reply to Joerg:
>Zzabur
>is on record as saying that all non-Brithini humans are descended from
>animals
What is the source on this? I submitted this to TotRM and was told that
this was not the case, according to Greg. Then they published it anyway
in Notes from Nochet...
Also, the original (Earth) source, me, quoted a source that said that
MOST humans were animal descended. The Tribes of Law and Chaos were 'real'
humans and included the ancestors of the Brithini and the Vadeli (Law) as
well as Ogres (Chaos), among others.
Theyalans are descended from cattle and sheep Hsunchen in this scheme...
Great post, Joerg.
---------
On 'Celtic' Orlanthi:
I tend to think of them as a bit more like the Heroic Hellenes than Celts.
They have their own cities (Boldhome, etc.) and certain other features as
well. I will go into this another time.
-------
Running out of time - all for now
Paul reilly
---------------------
From: eco...@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann)
Subject: Bison founder vs Sun Dome
Message-ID: <940131040...@cabell.vcu.edu>
Date: 31 Jan 94 04:04:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2949
Robert McArthur (Mcar...@fit.qut.edu.au) wrote of the comparaison
between the protective spirits of the Sun Dome compared to the Bison
Founder.
I do not believe that in this case you can get any really meaningful
comparison out of the the cross-system matchup. Since I wrote the
section on the Sun Dome's defenses, I thought I would explain why.
First off, NOmad Gods is a bazillion years old, and not a reasonable
source for mechanical data on Glorantha as it has now evolved.
Second, as the writer of that section of Sun County, I certainly did
not look to Nomad Gods for a sense of stat balance. (see the above
reason) Instead, I used the combination of RQ stats and historical
notes to try to (in part) explain how & why the Sun Dome temple
survived for so many years with so little help from the outside
world, and so many nomad enemies.
It was also important to provide refs with an example of just why PC
should not consider knocking off any temple bigger than a shrine.
When I think of how the Spirits of the Directions of the Sun Dome
defeated the Bison Founder, I do not think of a single spirit combat
between the largest spirit and the Founder. The spirits of the Temple
are much better organized than the shamans of the Bison people. They
all worked together to defeat them. One of the spirits probably
possessed some important Khan in the chief's retinue, and forced him
to stab the chief in the back. Another probably obably attacked the
support shamans, etc.
Also, I did not mention how many of the bison tribes had gotten
together to summon the founder. It might have been a single tribe,
now couldn't it. THe Sun Domers were unified in the defense o ftheir
temple, however.
The question to draw from that section of Sun County was: Is this
really a reasonable way to protect a temple, and can I use it as a
model for designing temples in other places? As the writer, my
immodest opinion is that, yes, it is reasonable to think that the Sun
Dome or a comparable temple would have been defended this way.
In fact, the one place Ken edited my work was where I had listed the
EXACT amount of POW available to the GM for assignment to "other"
enchantments for the temple's defense. He loves generalization and
vaguesness, and changed the defined number to some line like " a
number of" . I was trying to show what a temple would accrue over a
year, taking into account failed enchantments, theft, purges,
vandalism and so on. Then I multiplied by the number of years the
temple had been around. It came up with a big number.
Don't mess with established, old temples!
M >|<
---------------------
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Date: 30 Jan 94 20:25:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2950
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---------------------
From: mle...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (Mike Leseth)
Subject: Address change
Message-ID: <1994013114...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Date: 31 Jan 94 02:27:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2951
Hello, I have changed my account, and would appreciate it if my address could
be changed from
mle...@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu
to
mle...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu
Thanks
Mike Leseth
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <940131142...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 31 Jan 94 02:27:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2952
Jonathan Eyre asks:
>LANDS of DAWN/DUSK...Where can I find info about these parts of
>Glorantha?
Hardly anywhere. Luathela is the land of Dusk, and Vithela is the
land of Dawn. The inhabitants of Luathela are the purple-skinned
Luathelans who are known to be violent and dangerous, plus they are
all fairly recent descendents of the Gods. One shipful of them
managed to destroy the whole Seshnela peninsula. Vithela is a
mysterious place where Kralori go when they die, if they're lucky.
>Are they one >of the places where the Hero Plane touches the real
>world?
Vithela, definitely, since you can sail by it and see it and still
known you're in the real world. Luathela maybe a bit less obviously,
since you actually have to sail for some distance, and maybe use a
magical boat to reach it.
Robert MacArthur sez:
> Now, looking at the nomad gods counters the Founder is 10-11-10-*
>(or something close since I am at "work" :-) Recalling Cults of
>Prax Waha writeup we have the Summon Founder spell summon a spirit
>with power 40-110, and strength+size = 10* the summoners.
I strongly recommend against reading too much into the Cults of Prax
writeup re: Nomad Gods. The two groups of stats described weren't
ever meant to be used together -- Summon Founder was supposed to get
a spirit that would be impressive to RQ players, and the Nomad Gods
Founder was intended to provide a counter useful to the boardgame.
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: cannibalism
Message-ID: <940131154...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 31 Jan 94 05:49:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2953
Okay, here's one to put a flame up somebody's nightie:
Are the Praxian tribes cannibalistic? Now, I do NOT mean dietary cannibals.
However, do they practice ritual cannibalism--eating portions of a dead
foe to partake of strength, bind the spirit, etc.?
I know that several sources state that the Praxians are not cannibals and that
apprehensions of cannibalism are due to the mistaken identification of Herd
Men as Humans, but could not these statements be those of pro-Praxian
apologists or taken from simple outright lies?
The reason I ask this is that the Praxians are based, to some extend upon
Amerindian cultures--or so it appears, and several of these cultures were
cannibalistic.
(Example: The Ottawas practiced ritual cannibalism, which was heartily
disliked by their allies, the Eries and the Delawares. The Delawars also
disliked the Mohawks for the same reason--calling them "Maqua", which means
"man-eaters")
---------------------
From: ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28)
Subject: "THE JOERG STRIKES BACK
Message-ID: <5492*_S=ngl28_OU=rz_PRMD=uni-kiel_ADMD=d400_C=de_@MHS>
Date: 31 Jan 94 19:10:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2954
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 2936
(Joerg nitpicks at Sandy, part 5)
>NAME FIX NEEDED:
>Some people persist in spelling the dominant Genertelan racial type
>"Wareran". Despite possible misprints of which I am not aware, the
>name is "Wereran". I am in hopes that this misspelling can be
>corrected before it reaches the level of "Pharoah/Pharaoh", "Lhankor
>Mhy/Lankhor Mhy", or "Kahn/Khan".
Are you sure? The spelling I used appears consistently in the Genertela Box,
and as well in a fragment of an old Wyrms Footnote Nick Brooke provided.
There the name is derived from Warera Triolina, mother of Malkion.
>The Vadeli are considered racially Wereran, as are the Brithini. The
>skin color does not reclassify them any more than the near-black skin
>of the Dravidian Hindus makes them a non-Caucasian group. Other
>features, such as characteristic facies, hair texture, etc. clearly
>show that the Vadeli are "true", if aberrant, Wererans.
Then does this race have anything to do with descent from W<e/a>rera
Triolina? or did the Westerners call it after their myth of genesis?
>Joerg Baumgartner sez:
>[I said that the only native Genertelan earth culture was the
>Praxian]
>>You forget the Tarshite and Saird native earth cults.
>I don't view these as "real" cultures, but as aberrations from the
>norm. There's no doubt such earth-oriented groups all over Peloria
>and Kralorela, but I think all of them stem from from an original
>Storm or Sun culture. Of course, I know that the Storm and Sun cults
>themselves are Godtime "conquerors" of a pre-existing Earth culture,
>but I still maintain that the Praxian culture is the only earth
>culture in Genertela that stems right from the Godtime without having
>been "conquered" by some other dominant way for generations of time.
The way I look at it, in the Golden Age Prax and its earth deities were
conquered by Storm Bull (and his sons, if he had any from intercourse
before meeting Eiritha, which I think most likely in light of Morak's
existence). He was tamed by earth later (as was Orlanth). His now minor
role in society is due in part to the fact that the eternal battle still
rages on and that his attention is somewhat diverted by that.
>Waha is manifestly an Earth God, and Storm Bull, far from being a
>kingly leader, is in a more-or-less subservient role -- much much
>less important and valuable than his mate Eiritha.
To me this sounds exactly what the Esrolian queens tell about Barntar,
Orlanth, and Eiritha, respectively.
>Brief Notes on Gloranthan Races:
>The Brithini are sometimes claimed to be the only "pure" humans, and
>philosophers that buy this theory sometimes put them apart and
>categorize them as a different race. The Malkioni of Jrustela and
>western Genertela are clearly just Wererans, and were not dissimilar
>to the barbarian inhabitants of Ralios at the Dawn. No doubt they'd
>interbred with the locals, which might be one reason they were so
>willing to rebel with Hrestol against the oppressive Brithini faith.
There seem to be myths (not of _my_ making) that Malkion came into the Kingdom
of Logic and was educated by the humans there. Since most Malkioni regard
the prophet also as their distant ancestor (the Stygians may be an
exception to this, but compare W<e/a>reran as name for the race), these
must be somebody else. Note that by marriage with the children of Malkion
these became the ancestors of Brithini and Malkioni as well.
The Brithini ability of staying alive indeterminately if denying to reproduce
seems to me as the heritage of the KoL inhabitants, which is barely
thinned in the Brithini, but thoroughly thinned in conventional Malkioni.
>>How come there are apparently Agimori Hsunchen? (seeing as they were
>>made by Lodril and Trickster)
>Reason One -- cynical) because all the tales of human origin in
>Gloranthan mythology are false false false.
Nah, I don't like it. They might have got certain parts of it wrong, but I
don't think they are outright false.
>Reason Two -- Doraddi) because the beast-mothers that wanted to spawn
>humans naturally emulated the local variety (i.e., Agimori).
And she got Trickster's mold?
>Reason Three -- God-Learner) because the Hsunchen folk of Pamaltela
>have interbred with the Agimori over the years.
Unlikely if the Telmori rules for interbreeding with outsiders apply.
>Someone (no name given) says:
Joerg again...
>The Giant Cradle:
If the girl is Gonn Orta's child, who is the mother? Sa Mita?
(I had enough trouble imagining the mating of Sa Mita with Boshbisil, who
has twice her height. BTW, what are the giants' views of privacy?)
>The magic "good" giants, like Gonn Orta and Thog who raised the walls
>of Pavis, are a different species, and they are the guys who send out
>the giant cradles. They are almost extinct, now, or turned into
>mountains or hills. (remember the Nine Good Giant Mountains?) The
>disappearance of the Gold Wheel Dancers in the First Age pretty much
>put paid to their breeding opportunities, though they were able to
>keep up some breeding into the Second Age.
Are they the firstborn children of Annilla (and the unnamed husband from
whose dead body she bore the Blue Moon)? The giants who fought the fought
the dragons of old?
Then they might have the same powers as those dragons: to go sleeping as a
feature of the landscape, and to be awakened by those who know the rituals,
similar to Orlaront Dragonfriend's performancce at the Sartar temple of
the Reaching Moon. "Those are not dead who eternally lie..." sorry, wrong
myth <g>
>I'm not sure whether Sa Mita or Hen Cik are "tame" "bad" giants, or
>young "good" giants. In the latter case, despite the claims of
>Griffin Mountain, they are obviously much much older than 80 years,
>and must be at least 700 years old. Or more.
Or they are the lesser breed, due to circumstances, as happened to teh
trolls?
>>Does Thog still roam the Rockwoods?
>I don't know. I guess I always figured he was killed in battle.
In the Pavis story we are only told that Joraz Kyrem first takes out one of
his eyes at Pavis, then rips off his left arm (which still can be found
just south of the Nine Good Giant mountains as Thogsarm hill or so). After
that, Thog limps off into the Rockwoods.
---------------------
Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 2934
>Also, in Blessed Torang his Lunar phase, the Dying Moon, comes on Godsday,
>which I'd associate with the Law rune, which is after all the rune of the
>Great Compromise (cf. RQ Dailies last summer and "Codex #1" for my thoughts
>on variable Lunar phases).
I like the philosophical implications of this:
The only way the Red Moon embodies Law is when Dying.
For the Red Moon, the Compromise is to die.
<G>
John Medway in X-RQ-ID: 2939
John, my first attempt to reply to you wrt regimental magic bounced. Could
you give me an address that won't?
>Damn, need to call up Wizard's Attic, I suppose.
Could someone kindly repost how to contact them? I want my GRoY (not MTV).
Carl Fink in X-RQ-ID: 2941
> ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de (ngl28) () writes:
() is Joerg Baumgartner abusing his work account. Lousy system, though,
can't even remember my name.
>R>There seem to be three major and a few minor variants of the Man Rune
>>(human races): The Wareran, Agimori and Eastern types each spawned a number
>>of Hsunchen races, the minor ones (Veldang, Vadeli [who are listed as
>>Warerans in Genertela Player Book if I remember correctly]) apparently did
>>not.
> WARNING: THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IS KNOWN ONLY TO GOD-LEARNERS
> AND THE BRITHINI
> The Vadeli and Veldang are the same race -- note that the "missing"
>caste of the Vadeli are blueskinned. Greg's unpublished "Lunar Book"
>mentions the conquest of Peloria by blueskins in the God Time.
NICE theory, although conflicting with what Sandy says. Also: How does this
explain the Reds and Browns?
The Pelorian blueskins might be the Loper people, mentioned in Troll Gods'
Annilla write-up. The last of these were officially destroyed in the
Battle of the Lopers by the Seshnegi around 500+.
These might still live north of Blue Moon Plateau, hidden by friendly
trolls. Dragon Pass has there the Duchy of the Blue Moon and Heretics
Count(r?)y. Anyone with information on these, step forth!
MOB in X-RQ-ID: 2943
>LIVE ACTION TROLLBALL AT RQ CON, OR HOW I WENT TO VALIND'S GLACIER AND LIVED
Loved the description and the rules. Will there be one at Convulsions?
Paul Reilly in X-RQ-ID: 2948
>>Zzabur
>>is on record as saying that all non-Brithini humans are descended from
>>animals
> What is the source on this? I submitted this to TotRM and was told that
>this was not the case, according to Greg. Then they published it anyway
>in Notes from Nochet...
That's the answer. I regard Notes of Nochet as official Gloranthan rumours,
which my team of scholars and God Learner heretics may mercilessly exploit.
Note that neither me nor my scholars apply a truth rating to what we
ramble...
> Also, the original (Earth) source, me, quoted a source that said that
>MOST humans were animal descended. The Tribes of Law and Chaos were 'real'
>humans and included the ancestors of the Brithini and the Vadeli (Law) as
>well as Ogres (Chaos), among others.
Well, I quoted several sources which prove divine ancestry, in some cases
exclusively (e.g. the Ygglinga, or Malkion's five children).
> Theyalans are descended from cattle and sheep Hsunchen in this scheme...
Yet the Telmori call the Dragon Pass Orlanthi (or some hsunchen??) the Cat
people. (Dorastor...)
> On 'Celtic' Orlanthi:
> I tend to think of them as a bit more like the Heroic Hellenes than Celts.
>They have their own cities (Boldhome, etc.) and certain other features as
>well. I will go into this another time.
If you look at the great oppida of say Gergovia and Manching, you'll find
that these Celts were a good deal hellenized themselves. The way I regard
the heroic Hellenes is maybe more like the Balazaring citadel dwellers.
(Now we've got it, I start comparing real earth cultures to Gloranthan ones...)
Joerg Baumgartner
ng...@rz.uni-kiel.d400.de
---------------------
From: guy....@chrysalis.org
Subject: GODS OF GRAZE
Message-ID: <940131180...@chrysalis.org>
Date: 31 Jan 94 17:05:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2955
Pardon me if this has been addressed here before, but I was wondering why the
gods of the Grazelanders (and presumably the solar-worshipping Pentans) are not
thye standard solar deities such as Yelm, Dendara, etc.
Are they in fact the same gods, with some differing names and attributes?
Are they associated deities? Something else entirely?
On a completely separate note, why do Ducks have an affinity with the Death
rune?
--Guy Hoyle
aka Mulborth
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Lunar and Solar thoughts.
Message-ID: <940201032...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 1 Feb 94 03:25:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2956
Paul Reilly here.
Sandy P. has lots of good stuff today. I will reply to some of his posts,
in no particular order:
Giants:
We distinguish several types of giant in our campaigns, often confused
by humans. Some are descended from the Tribe of Chaos, and were once
(presumably) human-sized but bent the laws of nature to become larger -
because they WANTED to be large. They are more closer related to Ogres
than to other giants.
THere is Gonn Orta's race, and a race that may be identical up near the
Glacier - the Northern Giants, who live on a very slow life cycle. One of
them appeared in a storyline of ours; she was thought to be a 'bad', possibly
Chaotic creature, until the villagers figured out that she was the Giant
equivalent of a two-year-old, thus explaining her 'Chaotic' behavior.
There are some descendants of Mammoth Hsunchen who have lost the Way in
the Grey Mountains - their noses are a bit of a tipoff. (Elephant Hsunchen,
on the other hand, are pygmies.)
Other things like Grotarons and Jolanti often get called 'Giants', much
as Wyrms get called 'Dragons'.
-------------------------------
>The Seven Mothers are most common in the Lunar Periphery, and are
>rare or even unknown deep within the empire. They are a
>specially-designed Border Cult
This is in Cults of Prax. However, we play that the individual Seven Mothers
have important cults in the Empire - it is the fusion that is the artificial
border cult. Danfive Xaron, for example, must be present where criminals are
bred - notably the big cities of the Heartland. Etc.
>Yara Aranis as an internal Lunar cult
I tend to think of her as most important on the Eastern border, actually,
for obvious reasons.
>Lunar military cults
Good stuff here. We also use regimental spirit cults, plus some Lunar hero
cults (from later on.) WHat about Hwarin Dalthippa? We make her the main
military cult for Sylila and its Marble Phalanx, plus of course goddess of her
Roads, etc.
-------------------
Replying to Nick Brooke (on Lunar Gods)
DANFIVE XARON: HIs titles include Night Watchman or something like that,
possibly Savage Guardian as well. He recruits criminals into his cult,
putting them through a savage five-year conditioning program. He has
some way of insuring their loyalty - RQ:AiG gives him Oath and Slave Collars;
we always thought of him having something much more horrible, more to do with
the LUnar Mind powers than the Humakti-like Oath. Yanafil Tarnils should
already have Oath, why duplicate?
ANyway, all this leads me to the conclusion that the DX cult is the backbone
of Imperial Intelligence. Lunar Balance (and Paradox) dictate that the
worst evil-doers who tried to tear down Imperial society become its most
ardent protectors. These guys believe that the end justifies the means, and
that the Lunar Way is the last best hope to keep Glorantha from dissolving back
into the Void or becoming a fossilized and lifeless husk - thus ANYTHING AT ALL
is justified to protect the Empire and the Way. (But some may believe the
Way outweighs the Empire).
I agree with Nick that Law/Stasis is more appropriate than Truth. Besides,
Yanafil Tarnils and Irripi Ontor are already Truth-associated - three of the
Seven having the same Power Rune is distinctly unBalanced.
Maybe Law, Disorder, and Moon.
Disorder: cult of criminals, after all. And pain - pain is Disorder.
Law: Imposed to control the members, also the members impose Law on others.
Moon: Source of the mind powers used to reprogram the Initiates.
Some of the best agents were brought in kicking and screaming.
-----
I see Nick agrees that the individual Mothers' cults are found in the
Heartland. Good.
Yanafil Tarnils: Was Humakt's best student. I am profoundly influenced by
the example of Rild and Yama in Zelazny's "Creatures of Light and Darkness"
in getting a handle on this relationship.
-------------
Old Carmania: I am sure that there is a lot of the 'barbarian warlord' strain
left in modern Carmanians - it's just hidden under a clever Lunar veneer
of politeness. Still nasty down deep. But even deeper down, you find the
'nice' Carmanians of the Light Side. However, still deeper down, they're
even nastier than you thought...
----
Well, it is getting late so I will have to sign off for now,
Paul Reilly`
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Technicolour Yawns and Splashing Boots...
Message-ID: <01H8DO3AE...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 2 Feb 94 04:31:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2957
John medway Writes:
>> MOB in X-RQ-ID: 2913
>>>> Subject: Back in the land Down Under (where women glow and men
chunder...)
>>Another "divided by a common language" bit: "chunder"?
This is from the mildly successful song "Land Down Under", by
Aussie band "Men at Work". It also mentions "Vegemite sandwiches", which
is where many Americans first heard of the stuff. "Chunder" is another
word for vomit, blow chaff, Technicolour Yawn, etc. For an exhaustive array
of alternative terms for vomit (and urination) check out the 1970 classic
Australian movie "The Adventures of Barry McKenzie" - you'll also see
an early appearance of Dame Edna Everage.
>>>> Well Su and I are safely returned from our 6 week US odyssey, and reeling
>>>> with shock at the antipodean heatwave we are now experiencing. Using
>>>> the Fahrenheit scale, yesterday it was exactly *one hundred degrees*
>>>> warmer here than it was in New Jersey just over two weeks ago, when we
>>>> were...
>>This is a good thing, yes?
If I was at the beach, yes. Because I am back at work (in an unairconditioned
classroom with 30 sweaty bodies, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>>> fellow!" (As he *failed* to light the flame, why bother upsetting
>>>> Gordius's Grand Design which was progressing so nicely at that
>>>> stage?)
>>Which was?
Ah ha, you'll just have to wait and see at Gordius's show trial!
>>Ah, you *were* apprehended in Casino Town! Err, I mean rescued.
>>Good that you made it out. Hmm, maybe we should coordinate our stories.
>>Keep us all in decent condition ( un-crucified, not in a Danfive Xaron
>>Penal regiment, ... ).
I won't be killin
g off or otherwise disposing of anyone in my speech (except
Constable Pugh, who got out with Gordius - always wanted to see Kralorela
I believe, shame he's not around to testify...). I might smear some
reputations though!
MOB
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: RQ Con Down Under??????????????
Message-ID: <01H8DOIA2...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 2 Feb 94 04:43:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2958
G'day all,
An Australian RuneQuest Convention - RQ Con Down Under - is tentatively
being mooted for mid-1995! More news to follow!
Now that I've got the RQ stuff out of the way, here's just a quick snippet
of information regarding my school, which, as you may recall, was targetted
for closure by the looney-right renascent Thatcherite buncaneers who we
elected last year. (They did close over 250 schools, more than 1 in 8, but
as I said in the posting "I Fought, We Won" late last year, we went to the top
and convinced the Minister of Education to rescind the recommendation for
closure).
Well, the Education Directorate heavy who pointed the gun at us has lost her
designated "high flyer" posting and has been busted back to a school-based
job! I don't have much sympathy, as she played a number of dirty tricks
to try to get us closed, and we warned her early on that even though we
would play fair, we weren't taking prisoners. (However, what one
ministerial heavy reaps the other sows: her boss, who loaded the bullets,
has been promoted out of the area and someone out of state has been put in
his place).
But hey, this ain't aus.education.flame.facist.flame, so no more
education news till next time!
Now that my school's on safer footing, it's back to more serious RQing!
MOB
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: graeme....@anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
Subject: Humakt, Dorastor, Illumination...
Message-ID: <940201071...@cscgpo.anu.edu.au>
Date: 1 Feb 94 23:14:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2959
Bryan J. Maloney writes:
> In Dorastor, Humakt took a different aspect. There he is DEATH first
> and foremost, death with honor but DEATH, nonetheless. He is the
> inescapable and terrible TRUTH of DEATH that haunts all beings and
> claims all things. I am of the opinion that this aspect is not just
> Dorastor's but is the more commonly known aspect of Humakt throughout
> Carmania (Dara Happa) ... a terrible, grim being, devoid of mercy,
> devoid of pity
I think that this may be believed by the Orlanthi of Talastar as
well: there are no Humakti around Hazard Fort, and none mentioned in
CoT. I suspect there are more Storm Bulls to make up for it (:-)), and
they take on similar roles to the Humakti. Humakt seemed to be rather
downgraded as an Orlanthi god in KoS as well, though this might be
explained by Greg's apparent dislike of the cult
I've just started GMing the Riskland campaign, and one of the players
is playing a Sartarite Humakti. He seems very upset that there are no
Humakti temples around at all, and is puzzled by the strange looks people
are giving the Death Rune tatoo on his face. I told the player that there
aren't any Humakti in this campaign (after he generated his character) but
of course I lied. Ralzakark's bodyguard, Platewalker, maybe the lone Yarnafil
Tarnils at Hazard Fort will suggest worshipping at his temple instead...
MOB provides the
>Mercenary Contract of Leonidas the Short, Wind Voice
Just a comment: you'd have to be pretty dim to sign this.
Devin Cutler writes:
> 1) Can illumination be reversed?
It seems to be more an insight into the nature of Glorantha rather than
a magical effect or illness that can be "cured". You can try to ignore
it like Nick suggests. It might be more helpful to try other philosophies
as well, which is what the Kralorelans seem to do. There is also the question
as to whether the other philosophies of Glorantha possess similar insights
with strange effects. The "RuneQuest Sight" of the God Learners seems to have
been such a philosophy.
Graeme Lindsell a.k.a graeme....@anu.edu.au
"When Stalin says dance, the wise man dances" N.Khrushchev
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Hsunchen/not; Humakt quest
Message-ID: <1994020107...@radiomail.net>
Date: 1 Feb 94 07:26:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2960
Joerg quoted:
>The Telmori "hold permanent rivalries only with the dog-people of
>Balazar and the cat-people of Dragon Pass."
To which I reply, it's obvious that the Orlanthi of Dragon Pass keep cats
as pets/allies, and it's also pretty apparent that the Balazarings do the
same with dogs.
You do raise a good point that Hsunchen are never domestic animals.
(Assuming that the Galanini are wild horses and the Kralorelan Hsunchen are
wild yaks, and the Uncolings are really caribou, not reindeer [reindeer are
domesticated caribou].)
>Subject: HeroQuesting again (by Paul Harmaty)
>At RQ-Con Greg Stafford stated he could find no Humakti willing to go on a
>Humakt HeroQuest where he is guaranteed to meet Humakt (and thereby die).
>
>So.... given that it would have to be a noble cause / righteous
> death / yada, yada... what would cause a true believer to avoid this
>HeroQuest?
Not really being a true believer.
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <940201171...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 1 Feb 94 05:14:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2967
Carl Fink claims:
> The Vadeli and Veldang are the same race -- note that the "missing"
>caste of the Vadeli are blueskinned. Greg's unpublished "Lunar
>Book" mentions the conquest of Peloria by blueskins in the God Time.
I'm not so sure. Mere possession of blue skin is not enough to make
you racially identical -- the Veldang never, as far as I know, had
brown or red-skinned racial members, and the Vadeli never conquered
Peloria -- the God Time conquerors of Peloria were undoubtedly
Veldang from the Blue Moon. IMO, the Veldang and Vadeli are not the
same race at all, and only a heroquest to prove otherwise would
enable the Vadeli to utilize Veldang as their Lords.
Note that the red and brown Vadeli have in fact encountered
Veldang (in Fonrit), and did not appear to recognize them in any way
as their missing caste.
So there.
Some questions from Devin Cutler answered:
>a) Magic Spirits, Spell Spirits, Power Spirits,and Intellect Spirits
>cannot engage in spirit combat. Therefore, how does an enterprising
>young spellcaster capture and bind such spirits?
Said spirits cannot ATTACK in spirit combat. They can BE attacked by
a discorporate spirit, which is how shamans nab 'em.
>RQ3 rules seem to imply that ANY Healing (even 1 point) will stop
>bleeding.
RQ3 rules are supposed to stop bleeding once you've healed a location
up to positive hit points.
>RQ3 Creatures book says that Vampires cannot use Spirit Magic or
>Divine Magic, yet the Vampire in the Sun County scenario has Divine
>Magic, and it is implied that he could cast Spirit Magic had he not
>forgotten all of his spells. Which is correct?
RQ3 Vampires have no POW. Hence, they cannot cast Spirit Magic or
sacrifice for new Divine Magic. However, they keep all the Divine
Magic they had from their previous existence, and can cast it all
they please.
> f) When an impaling weapon criticals, does it do maximum impaling
>damage, ignoring armour? In other words, if a Composite Bow
>Criticals, does it do 18 points of damage ignoring armour?
Yes. It's like being hit in the eye or aorta by an arrow -- deadly to
most victims.
> The rules imply this, but it seems to make impaling weapons very
>dangerous Why would anyone want ot use anything else?
Because most other weapons do more damage most of the time. If you're
not relying on a "lucky hit" to kill your opponent, non-impaling
weapons are just dandy.
>May she use Spirit Block and other such speÿlls? If so, it would be
>almost impossible for the Chalanna Arroy to lose such a
>[resurrection] combat. Also, how about cult initiates learning
spells and using Spirit Block?
Once the spirit's MPS drop below the level of the Spirit Block, you
can't interact with it any more, and it goes away.
>What happens when one spirit fights another in spirit combat? Do
>they have to both be Visible per the spell?
No.
>Can they damage each other permanently?
Usually not. Depends on the spirit, I suppose. Most spirits can't
"possess" another spirit, so the whole combat is kind of pointless.
>What happens to a spirit when it is beaten down to zero MP,
>aside from its susceptibility to binding? Is it "unconscious"?
It is inert, and incapable of action until it has regenerated at
least 1 MP.
Also, can a Visible spirit be affected by a basilisk gaze?
I play no. After all, how can a spirit be killed?
> a) When you summon an ancestor, how long does it stick around for?
>15 minutes seems way too short for a ritual that could take up to 24
>hours to perform, but forever is ridiculous.
I have always played that a summoned spirit remains for as long as he
wants. Remember, he can't stay on the mundane plane forever -- he's
got things to do back in the spirit world. We usually played that the
ancestor was only around for a very short time -- the player
generally only summoned ancestors for one of four reasons: 1) to Gift
Spell or POW; 2) to ask questions; 3) to bind an ancestor to his or
her fetch or a magic item; or 4) experimentally, to get a random
ancestor and see if he or she is any good. There was never any real
need for the ancestor to hang around once the summoning was
completed.
> b) How long DOES it take to summon an ancestor? 1 Hour per MP of
>the spirit?
We played that it varied. So that whatever was dramatically
right for the scenario was when the spirit showed up.
> c) How exactly does Axis Mundi work? It says that all Summon spells
>are treated like ordinary Rune Magic. This is VERY vague. Does that
>caster still have to make his Summoning %, or merely the 01-95 roll
>for all other Rune Magic? Does the Summon Spell take 1 MR to cast or
>still take however long it normally takes (see question e above)? If
>the caster fails to cast the Summon Spell, is the spell used up,
>like regular Divine Summoning spells, or can he try again next MR
>like normal Divine Magic?
Summoning spells cast under Axis Mundi go off in 1 MR, and have a 95%
chance of success. If the caster fails to cast it, he can try again
next MR. At least, such was the intent when I wrote it.
>How exactly does the Visibility spell work? Does it make a single
>Spirit Visible or all spirits within range Visible?
Just the targeted spirit.
>By definition, you don't see the target of the Visibility spell
>until AFTER it has been cast?
You usually cast it somewhere where you know there's a spirit (like
in your fetch or a magic item). Or the spell is cast by a spirit on
itself (probably the most common use).
>What happens if you randomly cast a Visibility spell and 2 random
>spirits are floating around in the area, which one is made Visible?
First you kick yourself for being an idiot, because the spirits can't
attack you until they're Visible. Then the gamemaster picks the one
that he likes the most.
>Do spirits gain POW-gain rolls for overcoming targets' MP's? If so,
>which spirits? If so, is it the old RQ2 5% chance, or is it normal
>chance?
Yes. All spirits. It is the old 5% RQ2 chance, in my campaign.
Otherwise elderly spirits would all be maxed out in POW. Besides,
what's the max POW of a spirit?
>What happened to the Lunar Scimitar! In the Genertela Pack Book 3
One-handed sword = Scimitar
> g) Has anyone ever worked out a system for determining if a
>resurrect spell is available at any given moment.
See my notes back in (is it November? Some of you guys must remember
the discussion). It's real easy for there to be no resurrection
spells available. I won't go through all the math again, but what it
boils down to is that a gamemaster is entitled to deprive a player or
NPC of Chalana Arroy resurrection at any time. Well, I'll go through
a tiny bit of the math, so you can justify it to your players if need
be. Pavis and environs has somewhere around 700 deaths in a year. If
half of these are unresurrectables (elderly or guys whose bodies
weren't recovered), that leaves us with 350 resurrectable deaths. If
the 4 High Healers devote a third of their lives to casting
Resurrection, leaving all their other many duties to the other two
thirds, they can cure about 130 guys a year (a little over a third),
IF the deadsters come in at reasonable times (evenly spaced).
However, most resurrectable deaths occur in bunches, when there's a
big gang war in the Rubble for instance, and so the healers are taxed
and can't cure 'em all. Also remember that some deaths are children,
and CA healers are probably going to put them at the top of the list
for resurrection. Your PCs come way down the list -- if cured, they'd
probably just kill other people to further tax the CA healers'
Resurrection ability. What's the point?
> h) How do people assassinate others in Glorantha?
They can just kill the target, hoping he won't be resurrected (see
above). To ensure non-resurrection, they can cut out the heart or lop
off the head and throw it in the river or something. Trolls eat the
target. If the enemy is killed in the wilderness (like the Plains of
Prax, or the Big Rubble), it's unlikely the corpse will be recovered
before it has decayed beyond resurrection.
POW-destroying spirits have been known to be used. Another
ploy is to reanimate the corpse as a zombie, ghoul, or vampire.
>there are no rules for severing heads in RQ
You must be joking.
> i) What are the exact benefits that a Priest gets over an Acolyte?
>Until I know, I cannot figure out why anyone would be the former.
Priests are tended and supported by the cult. They receive the alms
from the worshipers. They get automatic POW gain rolls every year.
They are loved and honored by their people and the tribe. They get an
important seat on the chieftain's council.
>Can Magic Spirits be taught other spells? Also, do Sorcery-oriented
>Magic and Spell spirits also have Intensity, Duration, Range,
>Multispell, etc? What if a spirit knows a ritual; how can it cast
>the spell, since it has no body and presumably cannot perform many
>of the dances, gestures, etc. required by such?
Yes. Yes. Spirits can always cast a spell, as stated in the rules.
>Didn't anyone playtest RQ3, especially the spirit rules and Daka Fal
>rules?
Yes. Most of your questions seemed pretty obvious to me, and some of
the answers are right in the rules.
Devin Cutler also asks:-
>Further to DLOD, in the description of the Hungry Eater on page 76
>it mentions that it has the attack of"Inversion", yet the
>description for this attack is nowhere to be found. Can anyone tell
>me what this power is. It sounds nasty, but if it isnt, then the
>Hungry Eater may be one of the few Special Encounters in Dorastor
>that a party could defeat (although not bloody likely).
Either I didn't send Ken all the stats on Hungry Jack (which is what
I called him -- it's a later alteration to Hungry Eater, which I
mildly disapprove of, as it makes him less personal), or Ken forgot
to put in the "Inversion" ability.
The "Inversion" attack turns the target's power inside-out.
Thus, if his INT is 18, it is dropped to 8 instead. If he is a
shaman, his fetch and he exchange places (giving him a huge POW, but
losing most of his bound spirits, since they can't stay attached to
an ordinary human POW, regardless of size). Etc.
>Finally in the writeup of Ralzakark on page 81 it mentions that he
>has the ability to summon up the "Sky Terror"
He knows the secret of the Chaos Gaggle, and can create the Sky
Terror from it. The Sky Terror is a huge flying monster that feeds on
ambient chaos in the air. It is on a scale equivalent to the Crimson
Bat, the Mother of Monsters, a true Hydra, or Slimestone.
Bryan Maloney:
>Are the Praxian tribes cannibalistic? Now, I do NOT mean dietary
>cannibals.However, do they practice ritual cannibalism--eating
>portions of a dead foe to partake of strength, etc.?
This is the Cannibal Cult's practice. I don't think it's the case for
most Prax folk. Though the Praxian tribes are based loosely on
Amerinds, there are some basic differences -- the major Praxians are
nomad herdsmen, for instance, with all that implies, while the
Amerinds were hunters or farmers, unless you count sheep-herders.
Joerg Baumgarter sez:
>re: Wereran, Wareran
>Are you sure? The spelling I used appears consistently in the
>Genertela Box, and as well in a fragment of an old Wyrms Footnote
Hmm. Perhaps I am the guy in error after all.
>Then does this race have anything to do with descent from W<e/a>rera
>-Triolina?
Yes. That is where the name comes from, though now it does not mean
that any more than "Caucasian" means people from the Caucasus.
>The way I look at it, in the Golden Age Prax and its earth deities
>were conquered by Storm Bull
But no one claims this except possibly aberrant God Learners. The
Storm Bulls don't think this, the Waha worshipers don't think this,
nobody thinks this. The Storm Bull and Gagarth (the only native storm
gods in Prax) are neither of them fit to be a leader-religion.
>To me this [Storm Bull's subservience] sounds exactly what the
>Esrolian queens tell about Barntar, Orlanth, and Eiritha,
>respectively.
Yeah, but I don't think the Esrolia culture has survived as it is
since the Green Age. Rather, it was formed into its present form in
emulation of the First Council (this is a Sandy assumption, not
dogma). I view it as a fairly recent innovation. The Praxians, on the
other hand, are an ancient faith.
>The Pelorian blueskins might be the Loper people, mentioned in Troll
>Gods' Annilla write-up. The last of these were officially destroyed
>in the Battle of the Lopers by the Seshnegi around 500+.
The Loper people are Veldang, I know this fer sure. There's still a
very few of them in Pamaltela, and some people claim that there's a
lost Loper tribe in the Chaos Wastes (most folks agree they're
extinct -- in my own campaign, they're extinct).
The Lopers are kangaroo-like beasts from Pamaltela capable of
carrying a rider. They can teleport short distances. They're
extremely rare nowadays, despite their ability. (Or maybe they're
common, but they teleport away so they're never seen?) Anyway, my own
players never saw any in many years in Pamaltela, though I knew of
their existence. They did meet a Hoolar and plenty of Jelmre, though.
I think they even had a fight with some Watchweres. They once met the
Pamaltelan monster (whose name I forget -- not published in Glorantha
Bestiary) that looks a bit like a gorp, but without acid -- the outer
skin is like flesh. To fight, it forms itself arms and eyes to grab
weapons and flail away. I don't think the players realized what they
were fighting, and assumed it was just a funny-shaped, especially
tough, broo.
Guy Hoyle
>I was wondering why the gods of the Grazelanders ... are not
>the standard solar deities such as Yelm, Dendara, etc.
Because the standard solar deities proved of little worth in
preserving the Grazelander culture and economy. So they switched to
more useful cults. Why worship outdated gods?
Incidentally, the Pent gods are not the same as the
Grazelander gods -- for one thing, Yelm is very important in Pent.
Paul Reilly quotes me, then goes on:
>>The Seven Mothers are most common in the Lunar Periphery, and are
>>rare or even unknown deep within the empire. They are a
>>specially-designed Border Cult
> This is in Cults of Prax. However, we play that the individual
>Seven Mothers have important cults in the Empire - it is the fusion
>that is the artificial border cult.
Yes yes, of course you are right. When I said Seven Mothers, I meant
the manufactured religion, not the actual Mothers, six of whom have
quite complex and widely-worshiped religions of their own, generally
only found deep within the Empire.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: dav...@cs.uwa.oz.au (David Cake)
Subject: RQ3 spirit, etc. rules questions
Message-ID: <1994020205...@cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 2 Feb 94 05:01:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2975
> From: dev...@aol.com
> Subject: RQ3 annoying rules questions
> Message-ID: <940130052...@aol.com>
> Date: 30 Jan 94 10:20:42 GMT
> X-RQ-ID: 2942
>
> Thought I'd toss off a few annoying questions re RQ3 rules (even though the
> RQ4 rules will address a lot of these problems):
>
> a) To bind a spirit with Spirit Magic requires casting of Control Spirit.
> This spell requires one to engage a spirit in combat and defeat it BEFORE the
> spell is cast. The problem is, Magic Spirits, Spell Spirits, Power Spirits,
> and Intellect Spirits cannot engage in spirit combat. Therefore, how does an
> enterprising young spellcaster capture and bind such spirits? In other words,
> how d
> oes the caster initiate combat with spirits that cannot engage in such
> combat?
>
I assume that this limits the practicality of Binding spirits unless you can
either a) cast some other control spirit spell, like Command or Dominate -
many priests probably just use Command Cult Spirit OR
b) discorporate, and attack it in spirit combat.
Thanks for pointing this out though - it makes it very difficult for non
priests/shamans to bind things - which I like.
> b) When a limb is maimed or severed, is the seven day limit to cast Regrow
> Limb still in effect. The RQ3 rules don't set any such limit. Does this mean
> there is no limit? That would essentially mean that no one would eve
> r lose a limb permanently in RQ3 Glorantha.
>
Well, it can always be re-severed and then Regrown anyway - if you want your
limb back badly.
>
> e) RQ3 Creatures book says that Vampires cannot use Spirit Magic or Divine
> Magic, yet the Vampire in the Sun County scenario has Divine Magic, and it is
> implied that he could cast Spirit Magic had he not forgotten all of his
> spells. Which is correct? Also, RQ3 mentions none of the vampire's Rune
> Spell-sucking ability from RQ2 and from Sun
> County. Is this ability still intact?
>
The question has not been answered definatively, but the general concensus
would almost certainly be that the Rune-Spell sucking ability is at least
intact for Vivamort vampires, and possibly others. Wether Vivamort Divine
magic exists or they just do much the same things using sorcery spells is
also unresolved. It seems unlikely that they are able to use spirit magic.
Most of this might be resolved when Cults of Dorastor comes out.
> f) When an impaling weapon criticals, does it do maximum impaling damage,
> ignoring armour? In other words, if a Composite Bow Criticals, does it do 18
> points of damage ignoring armour? The rules imply this, but it seems to make
> impaling weapons very dangerous.
Yes and Yes.
> Why would anyone want ot use anything else?
>
Apart from the numerous good Gloranthan sociological reasons, there is more
to life than criticals. They occur very seldom, and ususally take out a location
anyway, amking the excess damage rather irrelevent. Impaling weapons have this
nasty habit of getting stuck in things, which can be very embarrasing, and
they do not do knockback, which can be very useful at times.
> g) When a Chalanna Arroy is resurrecting someone, she must engage the
> departing spirit is spirit combat. May she use Spirit Block and other such
> speÿlls? If so, it would be almost impossible for the Chalanna Arroy to lose such
> a combat.
>
I would say not, as the CA is the spirit combat agressor (attempting to bind
the spirit back into the body).
> h) For that matter, when a cult initiate is learning a spell from a Cult
> Spell Spirit, can he use Spirit Block
> and other such spells? Again, if this were true, no initiate would ever lose
> such combats.
>
No - because if Spirit Block means that a spirit cannot attack him, then the
spirit is no longer bound to remain in spirit combat, and can wander off, so
cannot be bound. I think that this is how it is supposed to work - but It
is not very clear.
What happens when one spirit fights another in spirit combat? Do they
> have to both be Visible per the spell?
No. Visibility is necessary to attack embodied spirits - like living
beings. I think that if one spirit has cast Visibility, the other must as well,
but I could be convinced otherwise.a
Can they damage each other
> permanently?
No more or less that normal spirit combat - in other words, mostly no,
but yes for some types of spirit.
What happens to a spirit when it is beaten down to zero MP,
> aside from its susceptibility to binding? Is it "unconscious"?
Well, that is what I would say.
Also, can a
> Visible spirit be affected by a basilisk gaze?
>
Basilisks make you dead, effectively Sever Spiriting you. Being dead in RQ
(as implied by the spell name Sever Spirit) is having a spirit that is not
connected to a body. So for disembodied spirits, basilisks gazes do not do
anything. For Visible spirits, I woudl say it does nothing, but a case could
be made that it 'un-Visibilises' them, shifting them back to the spirit plane
and for bound spirits, you could have them unbound I guess, though I wouldn't
play it that way (at least for Basilisks).
> j) Is long-term fatigue regained like short-term fatigue? By long term, I
> mean the 1 fatigue point lost per hour of Ritual or the 1 fatigue point per
> hour lost due to marching long distances. It seems ludicrous that 12 fatigue
> points lost during a 12 hour ritual are regained in an average of 12MR (2
> minutes).
>
Err.. No. And you are right, it should have been clearly stated.
> I have a Daka Fal Priest in my campaign, and many questions have arisen regar
> ding his abilities:
>
> a) When you summon an ancestor, how long does it stick around for? 15
> minutes seems way too short for a ritual that could take up to 24 hours to
> perform, but forever is ridic
> ulous.
>
Well, I usually assume as long as you can convince him to stay for. If
unattended, they just wander off into the spirit plane.
> b) How long DOES it take to summon an ancestor? 1 Hour per MP of the spirit?
>
Seems reasonable. This is why Axis Mundi is so valued. Ancestors that you havce
already summoned and talked to may not need the full summoning deal, though.
> c) How exactly does Axis Mundi work? It says that all Summon spells are
> treated like ordinary Rune Magic. This is VERY vague. Does that caster still
> have to make his Summoning %, or merely the 01-95 roll for all other Rune
> Magic? Does the Summon Spell take 1 MR to cast or still take however long it
> normally takes (see question e above)? If the caster fails to cast the Summon
> Spell, is the spell used up, like regular Di
> vine Summoning spells, or can he try again next MR like normal Divine Magic?
>
Certainly the spell is intended to allow summoning without long
rituals - in fact the spell description says 'without going through a lengthy
ritual'. I would generously assume that the summoning skill roll made by the
caster of Axis Mundi (it is a ritual Summons spell) negates the need for any
more Summon skill rolls. I would assume that the wasted summon is used up, I
guess, but it should not matter much if they do need to make Summon rolls.
> d) How exactly does the Visibility spell work? Does it make a single Spirit
> Visible or all spirits within range Visible?
You cast it on the spirit (shifting it from the spirit plane) not on
youself (it is not a sense enhancing spell) so I would assume that only one
spirit becomes Visible.
What if you only want some of
> the spirits within range to be Visible? For that matter, you must generally
> see the target of a spell to cast the spell upon it. By definition, you don't
> see the target of the Visibility spell until AFTER it has been cast?
You probably need to cast a spell that lets you sense the spirit, like
Second Sight, unless you can sense it some other way (like Mind-Link, example).
>
> e) Do spirits gain POW-gain rolls for overcoming targets' MP's? If so, which
> spirits? If so
> , is it the old RQ2 5% chance, or is it normal chance?
>
I think the 5% chance is the general feeling.
>
> g) Has anyone ever worked out a system for determining if a resurrect spell
> is available at any given moment. Certainly, with accidents and marauding
Well, I generally assume that the CAs tend to limit use of Resurrection
to those that have a good chance of living (so that counts out disease and
old age, starvation, many poisons, and particularly gruesome injuries), and that
they use it whenever they can. I usually assume that one is available, however,
unless there is some reason for it not to be (like middle of wars, etc.).
Personally, I like to give my playes a break when it comes to PC death
and resurrection, and not hassle them more than I have to - and besides, I
do not think that the CAs regularly cast resurrect more than 3-4 times a week
in a small town like Pavis.
>
> h) How do people assassinate others in Glorantha? Death is not permanent, so
> the soul as well as the bod
> y must be destroyed. I can think of a few ways:
>
Well, you can always just kill them and assume that the resurrect will
eventually fail. Also, only CAs and Lunars have re-useable resurrect, so every
one else gets resurrection only if they are real lucky or important.
> 1) Dip the blade in Blade Venom and expose i
> t to Soul Waste
Well, that just kills them and then gives them Soul Waste - which is
nasty, but not a sure kill.
> 2) Use acid, enough to destroy the entire body
It works, but it is somewhat complicated for general use :-)
> 3) Invent POW destroying
> poisons
>
Attack them magically is far more realistic - kill them and bind their spirit,
or somehting. It does sound rather extreme, but I suspect that this sort of
thing and worse happens a lot when the powerful of Glorantha clash.
> The rules for resurrection also imply that if the head is severed,
> resurrection cannot
> occur. However, there are no rules for severing heads or vitals in RQ3. How
> is this done?
>
With a big sharp thing :-) Realistically, If you want rules, assume a blow
that kills a PC instantly either severs or otherwise ruins a location, and if
they are already dead, then just allow people to do it.
> i) What are the exact benefits that a Priest gets over an Acolyte? Until I
> know, I cannot figure out why anyone would be the former.
>
In amny cults there is a difference. But the main answer is for role-playing
reasons - Priests get much more temporal cult support, and are much more
well-respected, etc. There is also the chance at an Allied Spirit, I guess.
> j) Can Magic Spirits be taught other spells?
Yes, but they need to beat up Spell spirits like everybody else
(except Etyries:-))
Also, do Sorcery-oriented Magic
> and Spell spirits also have Intensity, Duration, Range, Multispell, etc?
For magic spirits, the answer is sometimes, maybe even most of the time
for intensity at least. For Spell spirits, such spirits are highly unusual and
non-standard, so there is no real answer.
> What
> if a spirit knows a ritual; how can it cast the spell, since it has no body
> and presumably cannot perform many of the dances, gestures, etc. required by
> such?
>
My general answer would be no, bad luck. That is one reason why spirits might
want to possess someone. There are probably exceptions to this general rule,
however.
> l) Why am I asking so many questions? Didn't anyone playtest RQ3, especially
> the spirit rules and Daka Fal rules?
>
Well, the answer is that they did not playtest enough, a point that the RQ4
gang, to their credit have very much decided to rectify with RQ4.
I have no big problem with the Daka Fal rules (other than why any
shaman would cast Gift Power when he can get away with Gift Spell), but the
general spirit rules are, indeed, very badly playtested. Wait till you get
into the specifics of the spirit plane !
> Devin Cutler
> dev...@aol.com
>
Dave Cake
---------------------
From: mcar...@fit.qut.edu.au (Mr Robert McArthur)
Subject: How big is the Temple accruement?
Message-ID: <1994020108...@fitmail.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 1 Feb 94 23:47:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2961
Kirsten K. Niemann wrote
...
> It was also important to provide refs with an example of just why PC
> should not consider knocking off any temple bigger than a shrine.
Its true! My SB will *not* be thinking of knocking off a full temple of
chaos anywhere...........by himself ;-)
> When I think of how the Spirits of the Directions of the Sun Dome
> defeated the Bison Founder, I do not think of a single spirit combat
> between the largest spirit and the Founder. The spirits of the Temple
> are much better organized than the shamans of the Bison people. They
> all worked together to defeat them. One of the spirits probably
> possessed some important Khan in the chief's retinue, and forced him
> to stab the chief in the back. Another probably obably attacked the
> support shamans, etc.
In a spirit-on-spirits attack, for a tribe of Bison riders, who do you
think would win? eg. you can have 100 spirits, but if they are 10 power
less than the attacker, they don't stand much chance of actually doing
anything [apologies for game dynamics intruding here..] according to
most of the rules...
> The question to draw from that section of Sun County was: Is this
> really a reasonable way to protect a temple, and can I use it as a
> model for designing temples in other places? As the writer, my
> immodest opinion is that, yes, it is reasonable to think that the Sun
> Dome or a comparable temple would have been defended this way.
I liked it, actually! I think its a *well* defended temple. Its great
to have actual details of a full temple at last (in print).
> In fact, the one place Ken edited my work was where I had listed the
> EXACT amount of POW available to the GM for assignment to "other"
> enchantments for the temple's defense. He loves generalization and
> vaguesness, and changed the defined number to some line like " a
> number of" . I was trying to show what a temple would accrue over a
> year, taking into account failed enchantments, theft, purges,
> vandalism and so on. Then I multiplied by the number of years the
> temple had been around. It came up with a big number.
hmmm, you have interested me... how big?
Robert
---------------------
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X-RQ-ID: 2962
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To: Rune...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
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---------------------
Bryan J. Maloney writes:
---------------------
---------------------
X-RQ-ID: Extro
RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Henk Langeveld)
---------------------
From: ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Vithela
Message-ID: <940201121...@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 1 Feb 94 14:10:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2964
Sandy P writes:
>Vithela is a mysterious place where Kralori go when they die,
>if they're lucky.
I smell interesting info here. Do you mean Kralori humans in
general or Kralorelans (ie citizens of the empire)? The latter
I thought were supposed to gather in a kind of 'way station'
after death to await the transition of the current emperor and
then follow him to the next stage of existence.
Anyway, if the mentioning of Vithela is a fragment of eastern
myth I would very much like to know more.
/Nils W
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Codex
Message-ID: <01H8E29VS...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 2 Feb 94 11:20:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2965
No education news, promise!
Let me share in Nick's enthusiasm for CODEX, Mike Dawson's new RQ zine which
had its launch at RQ Con. Production values are content are both impressive:
you wouldn't think this is a first isuse just by flicking through it.
However, as Nick said, it does lack the robust primitivism that made the
early issues of TALES so endearing. And Hayward the Pickled Onion (issue #1)
still remains the definitive work in the field.
Mike has consciously made an effort to produce a zine with a different
outlook to TALES; in my opinion, a damn good thing. CODEX is well
worth supporting!
Let me also add my voice behind Nick's praise of Oliver Jovanovich and
Mike McGloin's RuneQuest Adventures in Glorantha. Although still a
weighty tome, a lot of the early fears about a rules overload are gone,
and world of Glorantha is now the frame around which the rules are based,
rather than a tack-on as was the case with RQ3.
Finally, it has come to my knowledge that a highly skilled Lhankor Mhy
sage was present at RQ Con and managed, by dint of successive Reconstruction,
Knowledge and Clairvoyance spells, to record such events as the SuperTroll
on a strange matrix marked with the VHS runes. No doubt he'll soon be in
touch (once he's prayed to regain all those spells).
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Yara Aranis/Gorgorma
Message-ID: <940201173...@barren.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 1 Feb 94 17:35:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2966
Me:
>About this Demoness Eater of Horses doodette, I'm rather vague on
>who she is, in a mythographic sense.
Joerg:
>She is one of the inspirations of Moonson (don't recall which one,
>sorry -- no doubt Nick or Colin or Joerg or Geoff etc. will know).
>She is the daughter of the Red Emperor and a really gross Demon that
>the Pent nomads have always hated and feared (my guess is Gorgorma).
David Dunham:
>In the Prosopaedia of Gods of Glorantha, Yara Aranis (horse eater and
>goddess of the Reaching Moon) is the daughter of the Red Emperor and
>Gorgorma. I'd say that makes her a new entity.
It's seems I'm outvoted, but I thought DEoH was was of (the diety who turns
out to be) _Gorgorma's_ titles. Am I just confused? At any rate, that's
who I meant in the above: not Yara Aranis, her Mommy.
So what do the Pentans call Gorgorma? Not `Gorgorma', I presume, since they
don't call Yelm `Yelm'.
Alex.
---------------------
From: wat...@computing-science.aberdeen.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Re: annoying rules questions
Message-ID: <9402012028.AA21387@condor>
Date: 1 Feb 94 20:28:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2968
____________
Devin Cutler poses plenty rules questions:
>b) When a limb is maimed or severed, is the seven day limit to cast Regrow
>Limb still in effect.
Not as far as I'm aware.
>The RQ3 rules don't set any such limit. Does this mean
>there is no limit? That would essentially mean that no one would eve
>r lose a limb permanently in RQ3 Glorantha.
Anyone with enough cash and/or influence at a friendly healing temple can
probably have their limb regenerated/regrown. (Most people would be within 7
days' travel of an appropriate healer anyway, so setting an arbitrary time limit
doesn't affect much). Even if the healer doesn't charge, the cost can be high
since the patient can't indulge in strenuous work or training during the
lengthy period of recuperation. (I find that PCs habitually run into debt
as they try to support themselves while regrowth takes place). I think that's
punishment enough.
If the limb is damaged before growth is complete *then* you're crippled
permanently.
__
Many of the other questions you raise are down to the preference of the GM.
Here's my take:
c) Any healing stops bleeding.
d) I add the magic bonus to the chance of casting any type of spell (be it
spirit magic, divine or sorcery).
e) The vamp in Sun County is quite gross enough without all that divine magic.
f) The down-side of impaling weapons is that you tend to lose 'em when they
get stuck (which is annoying if you've just cast True Weapon).
g) Spirit block etc can be used to aid resurrection, I don't see why not.
The resurrectee spirit may cast spirit block also.
h) If spirit screen etc is available, learning spirit magic by defeating
spell spirits does indeed become easy. ('course, you may have to pay others
to cast the protective spells on you.) If a cult is willing to give you
a spell then defeating the spirit is "just" a ritual formality IMHO. Some
cults however might insist that you defeat spell spirits "unassisted" to
prove your worth.
i) Spirits have to be Visible in order to engage in spirit combat on the
mundane plane. Non-Visible spirits can engage other spirits on the spirit
plane.
j) I agree, the long-term fatigue rules are kinda flakey.
> d) How exactly does the Visibility spell work? Does it make a single Spirit
>Visible or all spirits within range Visible? What if you only want some of
>the spirits within range to be Visible?
As I understand it, the Visibility spell only affects Self (ie. it can only
be cast by a spirit on *itself* to make it visible on the mundane plane).
The purpose is not so much to allow others to see the spirit, but rather to
allow the spirit to interact with the mundane world (by casting spells,
possessing folk etc). From a PC point of view the Visibility spell is really
only useful for PC shamans who want to join the fray whilst they're
discorporate.
>e) Do spirits gain POW-gain rolls for overcoming targets' MP's?
This is a damn good question. There was some discussion a while back and the
consensus seemed to be that the 5% rule applied (I think...).
I don't allow *bound* spirits to increase their POW, but maybe I'm just mean
to my players. :-)
> g) Has anyone ever worked out a system for determining if a resurrect spell
>is available at any given moment.
My system is simple: Resurrection is not available. (Sorry.)
> i) What are the exact benefits that a Priest gets over an Acolyte? Until I
>know, I cannot figure out why anyone would be the former.
Priests have more responsibility, prestige and political clout.
>j) Can Magic Spirits be taught other spells? Also, do Sorcery-oriented Magic
>and Spell spirits also have Intensity, Duration, Range, Multispell, etc? What
>if a spirit knows a ritual; how can it cast the spell, since it has no body
>and presumably cannot perform many of the dances, gestures, etc. required by
>such?
More good questions. It seems clear that Magic Spirits should be able to
learn spirit magic spells by the normal method. I guess, in principle, a spirit
could sacrifice for divine magic (maybe cult spirits do so). I dunno about
sorcery... I suspect one would need to be corporeal to learn sorcery (but then
I would have suspected that one would have to be corporeal to *cast* sorcery,
which doesn't appear to be the case according to published material).
The whole idea of sorcery Spell Spirits seems strange to me. (Do you "learn"
the sorcery spell if you defeat such a spirit in combat?) As far as
sorcery-using Magic Spirits are concerned I think a (small) proportion will
know Duration, Range & Multispell but most will only have Intensity (reflecting
the distribution of sorcery skills in the living).
I propose that ritual spell spirits cannot cast their spells, otherwise
they are open to gross abuse: a sorcerer could force such a spell spirit
to cast permanent Enchantments using its own POW instead of wasting his...
___
CW.
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Spelling and Humakti
Message-ID: <940201174...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 1 Feb 94 07:45:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2969
Well, Sandy objects about the "correct spelling" of wareran/wereran. I would
like to state that I wholeheartedly support people using either or both
spellings. I also like the Lhankor Mhy/Lankhor My difference. Why?
Well, just how standardized is ANY set of spellings of even proper names
in a pre-printing press society. The variation gives a nice flavor for
things, and is also anti Godlearner, which is another point in its benefit.
As for Humakti having their tongues cut out in the old Pavis Pack.
It never happened. Why? I don't have a copy of, and cannot purchase
a copy of, the old Pavis Pack. Therefore, events that occured exclusively
in this product never occurred in any campaign I run.
Why the Hell should I be expected to toe the line for a bunch of
out-of-print products that I cannot obtain nor can I even reasonably get
a complete, high-quality photocopy of them for a reasonable price from
the publisher? If it ain't in print, why the Hell should I have to to
its line?
This sort of priviliged knowledge one-true-worldism is one of the things that
really irks me and really irked a few newcomers to Glorantha whom I had
recently introduced to RQ. Either all the information should be freely
available or people should stop preaching "corrections" from sources that
cannot be had, even in facsimile.
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Danfive Xaron
Message-ID: <940201181...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 1 Feb 94 08:18:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2970
Danfive Xaron is probably the most unsettling of the Seven Mothers, from the
standpoint of a modern, Western democracy viewpoint.
He is the god of Lunar "justice" but in the sense of rehabilitation--he
"guides" criminals onto the Lunar way. To me, this bespeaks a rather
nasty concentration camp or gulag mentality--take the criminals and make
their minds into the mold desired. "Arbeit macht frie", anyone?
Why, then, is DX not so heavily stressed in the frontiers? This is due
to DX's function. He is not a deity of conquest or assimilation. He is
a deity of internal control. This is to say that the Lunar way recognizes
that the "ignorant" or the "barbaric" may oppose what is "Right and Lunar"
but still be basically "of good heart". However, if one has actually grown
up within the confines of superior Lunar society and one still does not
conform and/or has antisocial tendencies, then this is an internal flaw
that must be corrected by the specialists of Danfive Xaron's cult.
Gee, kind of sounds like some schools of criminal psychology, doesn't
it...
---------------------
From: 10027...@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Warerans
Message-ID: <940201221001_100...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 1 Feb 94 22:10:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2971
___________
Sandy said:
> Some people persist in spelling the dominant Genertelan racial type
> "Wareran". Despite possible misprints of which I am not aware, the
> name is "Wereran". I am in hopes that this misspelling can be
> corrected before it reaches the level of "Pharoah/Pharaoh", "Lhankor
> Mhy/Lankhor Mhy", or "Kahn/Khan".
Very surprising. I assumed the name came from Warera, the Ludoch Triolini
wife of Aerlit and mother of Malkion (thus all humanity). Not one of the
published or unpublished sources I've seen ever spelled her name "Werera".
There's only one RQ supplement that refers to "Warerans", frequently: the
Glorantha boxed set. Where it is always spelled "Wareran". The only place
I've ever seen "Wereran" is on yesterday's RQ Daily, in your post.
Odd.
_____________
Re: Pole Star
I like to imagine a Polaris-worshipping general having Star-worshipping
captains under him. Like his deity, he stands in the centre and directs.
They move, obedient to his command and design. This way, "Initiates" of
Polaris would in fact worship other stars under his command (that's the
ordinary officers). The Rune Lords (Generals) would be the true Polaris
worshippers.
I may be playing one this weekend, so I'll let you know what happens.
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: mcar...@fit.qut.edu.au (Mr Robert McArthur)
Subject: Sign the sheet, son!
Message-ID: <1994020200...@fitmail.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 2 Feb 94 15:54:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2972
Graeme A Lindsell says
> MOB provides the
> >Mercenary Contract of Leonidas the Short, Wind Voice
>
> Just a comment: you'd have to be pretty dim to sign this.
Given the literacy rate amongst hill barbarians, I would be surprised if
1 in 10 prospective merc's could get past clause 1 (let alone *sign* their
name XXX). Much more likely is that, as a Wind Voice, they would implicitly
trust the dude - as far as they could throw him for non-Orlanthi, and
pretty unquestioningly for Orlanthi. Remember, Initiates only see a small
amount of the politicing that would go on in the upper circles of Orlanthi
structures. If your chance to go adventuring is based on signing something
you can't even understand, most green merc's wouldn't bat an eyelid (IMHO).
For all its worth, Leonidas could have written anything in it - from the look
of it he doesn't want the smart/literate ones anyway!
Robert
---------------------
From: malco...@aol.com
Subject: RuneQuest Character Generator
Message-ID: <940201221...@aol.com>
Date: 2 Feb 94 03:10:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2973
I'm currently programming a Windows based character generator for RQ, and I'
d like to get some feedback on what type of feature and functions people
would like to see in this kind of a program.
FIrst, let me tell you about the work inprogress. I'm using the Players Book
from the Glorantha pack as the basis of the program. WHen you select NEW from
the FILES menu, you are presented with the various regions. These lead you to
specific homelands and/or races. It then uses the various homeland entires,
and information from RQ III, and Elder Races to generate characters. The
races I have included so far are human, aldryami, mostali, ducks, morokanth,
trolls, and newtlings.
After generating stats, Attributes, Skill Bonuses, and Base Skills a basic 15
year old will have been generated. You will then be able to accumpulate
previous experience based on parents occupation by choosing the Experience
mneu. I have not yet decided wether to include the Quck Experience option.
I have coded up to the basic 15 year old at this point. Please let me know
what you'd love to see in this type of a program. I open to all suggestions.
Malcolm
---------------------
From: ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: Roger Zelazny
Message-ID: <1994020203...@panix.com>
Date: 1 Feb 94 17:35:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2974
jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) writes:
R>Are the Praxian tribes cannibalistic? Now, I do NOT mean dietary cannibals.
>However, do they practice ritual cannibalism--eating portions of a dead
>foe to partake of strength, bind the spirit, etc.?
R>I know that several sources state that the Praxians are not cannibals and tha
>apprehensions of cannibalism are due to the mistaken identification of Herd
>Men as Humans, but could not these statements be those of pro-Praxian
>apologists or taken from simple outright lies?
See the Hungry Ghosts. There are cannibals in Prax, but not in the
"mainstream" Praxian lifestyle.
Joerg Baumgartner writes:
R>NICE theory, although conflicting with what Sandy says. Also: How does this
>explain the Reds and Browns?
Sandy *told* me this. "Explain"? Remember, on Teleos are humans of
all hues -- apparently the ancestors of all humans had weird skin
shades.
R>From: guy....@chrysalis.org
R>Pardon me if this has been addressed here before, but I was wondering why the
>gods of the Grazelanders (and presumably the solar-worshipping Pentans) are
>not
>thye standard solar deities such as Yelm, Dendara, etc.
> Are they in fact the same gods, with some differing names and attributes?
>Are they associated deities? Something else entirely?
You need to find a copy of the _Glorious ReAscent of Yelm_.
pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly) writes:
R>Yanafil Tarnils: Was Humakt's best student. I am profoundly influenced by
>the example of Rild and Yama in Zelazny's "Creatures of Light and Darkness"
>in getting a handle on this relationship.
Um, that's _Lord of Light_. _CoLD_ was a completely different book.
--Carl
---------------------
From: eco...@cabell.vcu.edu (Kirsten K. Niemann)
Subject: Devin's Statistics
Message-ID: <940201205...@cabell.vcu.edu>
Date: 1 Feb 94 20:58:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2976
Hi all.
Couldn't resist pointing out that when Devin said:
...it states that no longer is one's illumination skill rolled for
each Sacred Time. I hated this rule because it meant that someone
with a mere 3% in Illumination would become illuminated inside of 33
years...
he has made a basic mistake in his statisitcs.
3% x 33 attempts is not equal to 99%. I don't have the tables handy,
but off the top of my head, I would guestimate that the actual total
chance of Illumination (or anything with this set of %ages) is really
around 40-60%.
Percentages aren't commutative.
Someone on the RQ IV playtest list was asking how to get Codex
magazine. Write me (Mike Dawson) at code...@aol.com.
Thanks,
Mike
>|<
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Gods of the Grazers
Message-ID: <1994020206...@radiomail.net>
Date: 2 Feb 94 06:08:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2977
>From: guy....@chrysalis.org
>Subject: GODS OF GRAZE
(You asked in the same Digest I posted on the subject, but I'll try to
provide more detail.)
>Pardon me if this has been addressed here before, but I was wondering why the
>gods of the Grazelanders (and presumably the solar-worshipping Pentans) are not
>thye standard solar deities such as Yelm, Dendara, etc.
Why? Ask Greg. (As to why they don't worship Dendara, it should be obvious
that horse nomads aren't interested in an agriculture goddess. Dendara is a
Dara Happan deity.)
My unsubstantiated belief is that the Grazers worship different gods than
the Pentans. It's been a long time since they've been the same people,
perhaps even before the Dawning.
> Are they in fact the same gods, with some differing names and attributes?
>Are they associated deities? Something else entirely?
As I run them, Dastal, Jardan, Henird, and Josad are very much like the
subcults of Yelm as written up in GoG (which is supposedly a Pentan version
of Yelm). They are four separate deities, each a son of Yu-Kargzant.
Although a man is an initiate of only one at a time, he is also always
considered to be worshipping Yu-Kargzant (each age group deity teaches
Yu-Kargzant Lore). As a man passes from one age group to the next, he is
initiated into the next cult (without having to spend a point of POW each
time). Only chieftains and nobles can join Yu-Kargzant's cult directly.
The age group deities are associated in some senses, but a Dastal initiate
can't learn magic from an "older" cult.
So is Dastal the same as Yelm the Rider? A God Learner would. A Pentan
visiting the Grazelands would recognize much of the ceremonies, but insist
that Dastal is a warped and inferior copy.
As I think I've mentioned, the Grazers consider Yelm to be worship of an
incomplete portion of the original Sun ("it don't mean a thing if it ain't
got that swing" -- the Dara Happan Yelm doesn't include the Movement rune
of Yu-Kargzant). Yu-Kargzant worship combines that portion with the deity
once known as Kargzant the Nomad, and is thus obviously a much better
deity.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: gad...@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois)
Subject: Lunar Intelligence
Message-ID: <940201164...@peaches.cs.utexas.edu>
Date: 1 Feb 94 04:48:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2978
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Lunar and Solar thoughts.
Date: 1 Feb 94 03:25:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2956
Anyway, all this leads me to the conclusion that the DX cult is the
backbone of Imperial Intelligence. Lunar Balance (and Paradox)
dictate that the worst evil-doers who tried to tear down Imperial
society become its most ardent protectors. These guys believe that
the end justifies the means, and that the Lunar Way is the last
best hope to keep Glorantha from dissolving back into the Void or
becoming a fossilized and lifeless husk - thus ANYTHING AT ALL is
justified to protect the Empire and the Way. (But some may believe
the Way outweighs the Empire).
There must be a number of security-related organizations within the
Empire. In general, intrigue is rampant and there are no independent
sources of information, so every cult, political faction, military
unit, provincial government, city council, and Imperial ministry and
department devotes some of its resources to covert activities and
intelligence. Some groups span these boundaries. Here are some of
the ones I have found:
The Red Claw. A fanatical bunch of Danfive Xaron and Yanafal Tarnils
cowboys whose monomaniacal goal is to further their own twisted vision
of what is good for the Empire. (Think of the U.S. Central
Intelligence Agency and its worst excesses in Latin America and
Indochina. Multiply that by 10, and give them the support of a
government that has no need to apologize for their atrocities.) The
agents are technically under the control of the Red Emperor (and his
cultists fill the group's upper echelons,) but the agents have
considerable autonomy. The agents' actions are no end of trouble for
other security groups. They often ruin carefully laid schemes and
break long-standing intelligence networks. They are also experts at
shifting the blame when they really screw things up.
The Cult of the Red Goddess. The cult acts as an information
clearinghouse for the Goddess (after all, they talk to her every
week.) The members who came up through the cult of Jakaleel the Witch
run the permanent spy networks (composed of ordinary Jakaleel
cultists) at an executive level. The Jakaleel cultists also act as
the secret police. Also, most Etyries cultists report to a Red
Goddess agent.
The Red Guard. Young Lunar fanatics from a variety of cults. Think
of the Communist Youth. Their main tasks are to cheerlead for the
Empire and to spy on Lunar citizens for signs of ideological impurity.
They are frightening to the average Lunar citizen but not very
effective, except when a mob of them gets together to lynch a heretic.
The Cult of the White Moon. Think of the US Peace Corps. The cult is
thoroughly infiltrated by every other intelligence group.
The Emperor's Spoken Word. See TotRM.
The New-Moon Reconnaissance Office. A group of Red Goddess cultists
stationed on the Red Moon itself. They provide gather intelligence
simply by looking down on Gloranthan. There is a special, somewhat
sacrilegious, spell that they use to see through the red haze. They
are always in the market for old God Learner teleoptical devices. Due
to political and ideological infighting between the Society for the
Ascendency of the Red Moon and the Red Army faction, the info they
have is not quite the military boon one might think; requests for
troop movement intelligence, for example, can take weeks to process.
The meteorological data they collect is invaluable for the groups
fighting Valind, and some of it also filters down to the Earth cults.
Ministry of Earthly Information. Actually, these guys just provide
agricultural support services. (Their duties are similar to those of
extension agents in the US.) They really hate it when they are
mistaken for spies.
The Shooters' Club. An illegal extortionist group that provides
information the dart competitions to worried and unwilling
participants. In reality, this group reports to the Jakaleel cult;
their real purpose is to keep the old Carmanian and Dara Happan
nobility busy with their decadent games and to prevent the mess from
spilling over into the business of the Empire. They are not often
effective at either task.
The New School in Alkoth. A group of crazed philosophers who maintain
the Empire's military and government communication lines. They create
the magical parchment used for secret messages as well as deciphering
and analyzing enemy communications.
The Cult of the Blue Moon. Provides "insertion and removal" services;
I don't know much else about them.
The Imperial Revenue Service. The tax collectors know more about what
is going on in the Empire than anyone else and are not adverse to
calling out the Red Guard in cases of ideological impurity (assuming,
of course, that the action will be revenue-neutral.)
The Sun Network. They mostly provide military intelligence for the
Solar regiments but also serve as political spies for the Old Sun
Party.
The Daughter's Eye. A Hwarin Dalthippa subcult that collects and
provides most of the useful military intelligence for the Imperial
Army.
The cult of the Great Sister must also have some widespread
intelligence and covert functions, but those guys are more secretive
than the Blue Moon Trolls.
--David Gadbois
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Alex.
---------------------
> g) Has anyone ever worked out a system for determining if a resurrect spell
>is available at any given moment.
My system is simple: Resurrection is not available. (Sorry.)
> i) What are the exact benefits that a Priest gets over an Acolyte? Until I
>know, I cannot figure out why anyone would be the former.
Priests have more responsibility, prestige and political clout.
>j) Can Magic Spirits be taught other spells? Also, do Sorcery-oriented Magic
>and Spell spirits also have Intensity, Duration, Range, Multispell, etc? What
>if a spirit knows a ritual; how can it cast the spell, since it has no body
>and presumably cannot perform many of the dances, gestures, etc. required by
>such?
More good questions. It seems clear that Magic Spirits should be able to
___
CW.
---------------------
---------------------
---------------------
___________
Sandy said:
Odd.
_____________
Re: Pole Star
====
Nick
====
---------------------
Robert
---------------------
Malcolm
---------------------
R>Are the Praxian tribes cannibalistic? Now, I do NOT mean dietary cannibals.
>However, do they practice ritual cannibalism--eating portions of a dead
Joerg Baumgartner writes:
R>From: guy....@chrysalis.org
pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly) writes:
--Carl
---------------------
Hi all.
Percentages aren't commutative.
Thanks,
Mike
>|<
---------------------
RQ Daily Discussion List
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This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
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More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
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From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <940201171...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 1 Feb 94 05:14:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2967
Carl Fink claims:
> The Vadeli and Veldang are the same race -- note that the "missing"
>caste of the Vadeli are blueskinned. Greg's unpublished "Lunar
>Book" mentions the conquest of Peloria by blueskins in the God Time.
I'm not so sure. Mere possession of blue skin is not enough to make
you racially identical -- the Veldang never, as far as I know, had
brown or red-skinned racial members, and the Vadeli never conquered
Peloria -- the God Time conquerors of Peloria were undoubtedly
Veldang from the Blue Moon. IMO, the Veldang and Vadeli are not the
same race at all, and only a heroquest to prove otherwise would
enable the Vadeli to utilize Veldang as their Lords.
Note that the red and brown Vadeli have in fact encountered
Veldang (in Fonrit), and did not appear to recognize them in any way
as their missing caste.
So there.
Some questions from Devin Cutler answered:
>a) Magic Spirits, Spell Spirits, Power Spirits,and Intellect Spirits
>cannot engage in spirit combat. Therefore, how does an enterprising
>young spellcaster capture and bind such spirits?
Said spirits cannot ATTACK in spirit combat. They can BE attacked by
a discorporate spirit, which is how shamans nab 'em.
>RQ3 rules seem to imply that ANY Healing (even 1 point) will stop
>bleeding.
RQ3 rules are supposed to stop bleeding once you've healed a location
up to positive hit points.
>RQ3 Creatures book says that Vampires cannot use Spirit Magic or
>Divine Magic, yet the Vampire in the Sun County scenario has Divine
>Magic, and it is implied that he could cast Spirit Magic had he not
>forgotten all of his spells. Which is correct?
RQ3 Vampires have no POW. Hence, they cannot cast Spirit Magic or
sacrifice for new Divine Magic. However, they keep all the Divine
Magic they had from their previous existence, and can cast it all
they please.
> f) When an impaling weapon criticals, does it do maximum impaling
>damage, ignoring armour? In other words, if a Composite Bow
>Criticals, does it do 18 points of damage ignoring armour?
Yes. It's like being hit in the eye or aorta by an arrow -- deadly to
most victims.
> The rules imply this, but it seems to make impaling weapons very
>dangerous Why would anyone want ot use anything else?
Because most other weapons do more damage most of the time. If you're
not relying on a "lucky hit" to kill your opponent, non-impaling
weapons are just dandy.
>May she use Spirit Block and other such spe lls? If so, it would be
>almost impossible for the Chalanna Arroy to lose such a
>[resurrection] combat. Also, how about cult initiates learning
spells and using Spirit Block?
Once the spirit's MPS drop below the level of the Spirit Block, you
can't interact with it any more, and it goes away.
>What happens when one spirit fights another in spirit combat? Do
>they have to both be Visible per the spell?
No.
>Can they damage each other permanently?
Usually not. Depends on the spirit, I suppose. Most spirits can't
"possess" another spirit, so the whole combat is kind of pointless.
>What happens to a spirit when it is beaten down to zero MP,
>aside from its susceptibility to binding? Is it "unconscious"?
It is inert, and incapable of action until it has regenerated at
least 1 MP.
Also, can a Visible spirit be affected by a basilisk gaze?
I play no. After all, how can a spirit be killed?
> a) When you summon an ancestor, how long does it stick around for?
>15 minutes seems way too short for a ritual that could take up to 24
>hours to perform, but forever is ridiculous.
I have always played that a summoned spirit remains for as long as he
wants. Remember, he can't stay on the mundane plane forever -- he's
got things to do back in the spirit world. We usually played that the
ancestor was only around for a very short time -- the player
generally only summoned ancestors for one of four reasons: 1) to Gift
Spell or POW; 2) to ask questions; 3) to bind an ancestor to his or
her fetch or a magic item; or 4) experimentally, to get a random
ancestor and see if he or she is any good. There was never any real
need for the ancestor to hang around once the summoning was
completed.
> b) How long DOES it take to summon an ancestor? 1 Hour per MP of
>the spirit?
We played that it varied. So that whatever was dramatically
right for the scenario was when the spirit showed up.
> c) How exactly does Axis Mundi work? It says that all Summon spells
>are treated like ordinary Rune Magic. This is VERY vague. Does that
>caster still have to make his Summoning %, or merely the 01-95 roll
>for all other Rune Magic? Does the Summon Spell take 1 MR to cast or
>still take however long it normally takes (see question e above)? If
>the caster fails to cast the Summon Spell, is the spell used up,
>like regular Divine Summoning spells, or can he try again next MR
>like normal Divine Magic?
Summoning spells cast under Axis Mundi go off in 1 MR, and have a 95%
chance of success. If the caster fails to cast it, he can try again
next MR. At least, such was the intent when I wrote it.
>How exactly does the Visibility spell work? Does it make a single
>Spirit Visible or all spirits within range Visible?
Just the targeted spirit.
>By definition, you don't see the target of the Visibility spell
>until AFTER it has been cast?
You usually cast it somewhere where you know there's a spirit (like
in your fetch or a magic item). Or the spell is cast by a spirit on
itself (probably the most common use).
>What happens if you randomly cast a Visibility spell and 2 random
>spirits are floating around in the area, which one is made Visible?
First you kick yourself for being an idiot, because the spirits can't
attack you until they're Visible. Then the gamemaster picks the one
that he likes the most.
>Do spirits gain POW-gain rolls for overcoming targets' MP's? If so,
>which spirits? If so, is it the old RQ2 5% chance, or is it normal
>chance?
Yes. All spirits. It is the old 5% RQ2 chance, in my campaign.
Otherwise elderly spirits would all be maxed out in POW. Besides,
what's the max POW of a spirit?
>What happened to the Lunar Scimitar! In the Genertela Pack Book 3
One-handed sword = Scimitar
> g) Has anyone ever worked out a system for determining if a
>resurrect spell is available at any given moment.
See my notes back in (is it November? Some of you guys must remember
the discussion). It's real easy for there to be no resurrection
spells available. I won't go through all the math again, but what it
boils down to is that a gamemaster is entitled to deprive a player or
NPC of Chalana Arroy resurrection at any time. Well, I'll go through
a tiny bit of the math, so you can justify it to your players if need
be. Pavis and environs has somewhere around 700 deaths in a year. If
half of these are unresurrectables (elderly or guys whose bodies
weren't recovered), that leaves us with 350 resurrectable deaths. If
the 4 High Healers devote a third of their lives to casting
Resurrection, leaving all their other many duties to the other two
thirds, they can cure about 130 guys a year (a little over a third),
IF the deadsters come in at reasonable times (evenly spaced).
However, most resurrectable deaths occur in bunches, when there's a
big gang war in the Rubble for instance, and so the healers are taxed
and can't cure 'em all. Also remember that some deaths are children,
and CA healers are probably going to put them at the top of the list
for resurrection. Your PCs come way down the list -- if cured, they'd
probably just kill other people to further tax the CA healers'
Resurrection ability. What's the point?
> h) How do people assassinate others in Glorantha?
They can just kill the target, hoping he won't be resurrected (see
above). To ensure non-resurrection, they can cut out the heart or lop
off the head and throw it in the river or something. Trolls eat the
target. If the enemy is killed in the wilderness (like the Plains of
Prax, or the Big Rubble), it's unlikely the corpse will be recovered
before it has decayed beyond resurrection.
POW-destroying spirits have been known to be used. Another
ploy is to reanimate the corpse as a zombie, ghoul, or vampire.
>there are no rules for severing heads in RQ
You must be joking.
> i) What are the exact benefits that a Priest gets over an Acolyte?
>Until I know, I cannot figure out why anyone would be the former.
Priests are tended and supported by the cult. They receive the alms
from the worshipers. They get automatic POW gain rolls every year.
They are loved and honored by their people and the tribe. They get an
important seat on the chieftain's council.
>Can Magic Spirits be taught other spells? Also, do Sorcery-oriented
>Magic and Spell spirits also have Intensity, Duration, Range,
>Multispell, etc? What if a spirit knows a ritual; how can it cast
>the spell, since it has no body and presumably cannot perform many
>of the dances, gestures, etc. required by such?
Yes. Yes. Spirits can always cast a spell, as stated in the rules.
>Didn't anyone playtest RQ3, especially the spirit rules and Daka Fal
>rules?
Bryan Maloney:
>Are the Praxian tribes cannibalistic? Now, I do NOT mean dietary
RQ Daily Discussion List
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From: dav...@cs.uwa.oz.au (David Cake)
Subject: RQ3 spirit, etc. rules questions
Message-ID: <1994020205...@cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 2 Feb 94 05:01:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2975
> From: dev...@aol.com
> Subject: RQ3 annoying rules questions
> Message-ID: <940130052...@aol.com>
> Date: 30 Jan 94 10:20:42 GMT
> X-RQ-ID: 2942
>
> Thought I'd toss off a few annoying questions re RQ3 rules (even though the
> RQ4 rules will address a lot of these problems):
>
> a) To bind a spirit with Spirit Magic requires casting of Control Spirit.
> This spell requires one to engage a spirit in combat and defeat it BEFORE the
> spell is cast. The problem is, Magic Spirits, Spell Spirits, Power Spirits,
> and Intellect Spirits cannot engage in spirit combat. Therefore, how does an
> enterprising young spellcaster capture and bind such spirits? In other words,
> how d
> oes the caster initiate combat with spirits that cannot engage in such
> combat?
>
I assume that this limits the practicality of Binding spirits unless you can
either a) cast some other control spirit spell, like Command or Dominate -
many priests probably just use Command Cult Spirit OR
b) discorporate, and attack it in spirit combat.
Thanks for pointing this out though - it makes it very difficult for non
priests/shamans to bind things - which I like.
> b) When a limb is maimed or severed, is the seven day limit to cast Regrow
> Limb still in effect. The RQ3 rules don't set any such limit. Does this mean
> there is no limit? That would essentially mean that no one would eve
> r lose a limb permanently in RQ3 Glorantha.
>
Well, it can always be re-severed and then Regrown anyway - if you want your
limb back badly.
>
> e) RQ3 Creatures book says that Vampires cannot use Spirit Magic or Divine
> Magic, yet the Vampire in the Sun County scenario has Divine Magic, and it is
> implied that he could cast Spirit Magic had he not forgotten all of his
> spells. Which is correct? Also, RQ3 mentions none of the vampire's Rune
> Spell-sucking ability from RQ2 and from Sun
> County. Is this ability still intact?
>
The question has not been answered definatively, but the general concensus
would almost certainly be that the Rune-Spell sucking ability is at least
intact for Vivamort vampires, and possibly others. Wether Vivamort Divine
magic exists or they just do much the same things using sorcery spells is
also unresolved. It seems unlikely that they are able to use spirit magic.
Most of this might be resolved when Cults of Dorastor comes out.
> f) When an impaling weapon criticals, does it do maximum impaling damage,
> ignoring armour? In other words, if a Composite Bow Criticals, does it do 18
> points of damage ignoring armour? The rules imply this, but it seems to make
> impaling weapons very dangerous.
Yes and Yes.
> Why would anyone want ot use anything else?
>
Apart from the numerous good Gloranthan sociological reasons, there is more
to life than criticals. They occur very seldom, and ususally take out a location
anyway, amking the excess damage rather irrelevent. Impaling weapons have this
nasty habit of getting stuck in things, which can be very embarrasing, and
they do not do knockback, which can be very useful at times.
> g) When a Chalanna Arroy is resurrecting someone, she must engage the
> departing spirit is spirit combat. May she use Spirit Block and other such
> spe lls? If so, it would be almost impossible for the Chalanna Arroy to lose such
> a combat.
>
I would say not, as the CA is the spirit combat agressor (attempting to bind
the spirit back into the body).
> h) For that matter, when a cult initiate is learning a spell from a Cult
> Spell Spirit, can he use Spirit Block
> and other such spells? Again, if this were true, no initiate would ever lose
> such combats.
>
No - because if Spirit Block means that a spirit cannot attack him, then the
spirit is no longer bound to remain in spirit combat, and can wander off, so
cannot be bound. I think that this is how it is supposed to work - but It
is not very clear.
What happens when one spirit fights another in spirit combat? Do they
> have to both be Visible per the spell?
No. Visibility is necessary to attack embodied spirits - like living
beings. I think that if one spirit has cast Visibility, the other must as well,
but I could be convinced otherwise.a
Can they damage each other
> permanently?
No more or less that normal spirit combat - in other words, mostly no,
but yes for some types of spirit.
What happens to a spirit when it is beaten down to zero MP,
> aside from its susceptibility to binding? Is it "unconscious"?
Well, that is what I would say.
Also, can a
> Visible spirit be affected by a basilisk gaze?
>
Basilisks make you dead, effectively Sever Spiriting you. Being dead in RQ
(as implied by the spell name Sever Spirit) is having a spirit that is not
connected to a body. So for disembodied spirits, basilisks gazes do not do
anything. For Visible spirits, I woudl say it does nothing, but a case could
be made that it 'un-Visibilises' them, shifting them back to the spirit plane
and for bound spirits, you could have them unbound I guess, though I wouldn't
play it that way (at least for Basilisks).
> j) Is long-term fatigue regained like short-term fatigue? By long term, I
> mean the 1 fatigue point lost per hour of Ritual or the 1 fatigue point per
> hour lost due to marching long distances. It seems ludicrous that 12 fatigue
> points lost during a 12 hour ritual are regained in an average of 12MR (2
> minutes).
>
Err.. No. And you are right, it should have been clearly stated.
> I have a Daka Fal Priest in my campaign, and many questions have arisen regar
> ding his abilities:
>
> a) When you summon an ancestor, how long does it stick around for? 15
> minutes seems way too short for a ritual that could take up to 24 hours to
> perform, but forever is ridic
> ulous.
>
Well, I usually assume as long as you can convince him to stay for. If
unattended, they just wander off into the spirit plane.
> b) How long DOES it take to summon an ancestor? 1 Hour per MP of the spirit?
>
Seems reasonable. This is why Axis Mundi is so valued. Ancestors that you havce
already summoned and talked to may not need the full summoning deal, though.
> c) How exactly does Axis Mundi work? It says that all Summon spells are
> treated like ordinary Rune Magic. This is VERY vague. Does that caster still
> have to make his Summoning %, or merely the 01-95 roll for all other Rune
> Magic? Does the Summon Spell take 1 MR to cast or still take however long it
> normally takes (see question e above)? If the caster fails to cast the Summon
> Spell, is the spell used up, like regular Di
> vine Summoning spells, or can he try again next MR like normal Divine Magic?
>
Certainly the spell is intended to allow summoning without long
rituals - in fact the spell description says 'without going through a lengthy
ritual'. I would generously assume that the summoning skill roll made by the
caster of Axis Mundi (it is a ritual Summons spell) negates the need for any
more Summon skill rolls. I would assume that the wasted summon is used up, I
guess, but it should not matter much if they do need to make Summon rolls.
> d) How exactly does the Visibility spell work? Does it make a single Spirit
> Visible or all spirits within range Visible?
You cast it on the spirit (shifting it from the spirit plane) not on
youself (it is not a sense enhancing spell) so I would assume that only one
spirit becomes Visible.
What if you only want some of
> the spirits within range to be Visible? For that matter, you must generally
> see the target of a spell to cast the spell upon it. By definition, you don't
> see the target of the Visibility spell until AFTER it has been cast?
You probably need to cast a spell that lets you sense the spirit, like
Second Sight, unless you can sense it some other way (like Mind-Link, example).
>
> e) Do spirits gain POW-gain rolls for overcoming targets' MP's? If so, which
> spirits? If so
> , is it the old RQ2 5% chance, or is it normal chance?
>
I think the 5% chance is the general feeling.
>
> g) Has anyone ever worked out a system for determining if a resurrect spell
> i) What are the exact benefits that a Priest gets over an Acolyte? Until I
> know, I cannot figure out why anyone would be the former.
>
In amny cults there is a difference. But the main answer is for role-playing
reasons - Priests get much more temporal cult support, and are much more
well-respected, etc. There is also the chance at an Allied Spirit, I guess.
> j) Can Magic Spirits be taught other spells?
Yes, but they need to beat up Spell spirits like everybody else
(except Etyries:-))
Also, do Sorcery-oriented Magic
> and Spell spirits also have Intensity, Duration, Range, Multispell, etc?
For magic spirits, the answer is sometimes, maybe even most of the time
for intensity at least. For Spell spirits, such spirits are highly unusual and
non-standard, so there is no real answer.
> What
> if a spirit knows a ritual; how can it cast the spell, since it has no body
> and presumably cannot perform many of the dances, gestures, etc. required by
> such?
>
My general answer would be no, bad luck. That is one reason why spirits might
want to possess someone. There are probably exceptions to this general rule,
however.
> l) Why am I asking so many questions? Didn't anyone playtest RQ3, especially
> the spirit rules and Daka Fal rules?
>
Well, the answer is that they did not playtest enough, a point that the RQ4
gang, to their credit have very much decided to rectify with RQ4.
I have no big problem with the Daka Fal rules (other than why any
shaman would cast Gift Power when he can get away with Gift Spell), but the
general spirit rules are, indeed, very badly playtested. Wait till you get
into the specifics of the spirit plane !
> Devin Cutler
> dev...@aol.com
>
Dave Cake
---------------------
From: mcar...@fit.qut.edu.au (Mr Robert McArthur)
Robert
---------------------
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From: graeme....@anu.edu.au (Graeme A Lindsell)
Bryan J. Maloney writes:
MOB provides the
>Mercenary Contract of Leonidas the Short, Wind Voice
Just a comment: you'd have to be pretty dim to sign this.
Devin Cutler writes:
> 1) Can illumination be reversed?
It seems to be more an insight into the nature of Glorantha rather than
a magical effect or illness that can be "cured". You can try to ignore
it like Nick suggests. It might be more helpful to try other philosophies
as well, which is what the Kralorelans seem to do. There is also the question
as to whether the other philosophies of Glorantha possess similar insights
with strange effects. The "RuneQuest Sight" of the God Learners seems to have
been such a philosophy.
Graeme Lindsell a.k.a graeme....@anu.edu.au
"When Stalin says dance, the wise man dances" N.Khrushchev
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Hsunchen/not; Humakt quest
Message-ID: <1994020107...@radiomail.net>
Date: 1 Feb 94 07:26:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2960
Joerg quoted:
>The Telmori "hold permanent rivalries only with the dog-people of
>Balazar and the cat-people of Dragon Pass."
To which I reply, it's obvious that the Orlanthi of Dragon Pass keep cats
as pets/allies, and it's also pretty apparent that the Balazarings do the
same with dogs.
You do raise a good point that Hsunchen are never domestic animals.
(Assuming that the Galanini are wild horses and the Kralorelan Hsunchen are
wild yaks, and the Uncolings are really caribou, not reindeer [reindeer are
domesticated caribou].)
>Subject: HeroQuesting again (by Paul Harmaty)
>At RQ-Con Greg Stafford stated he could find no Humakti willing to go on a
>Humakt HeroQuest where he is guaranteed to meet Humakt (and thereby die).
>
>So.... given that it would have to be a noble cause / righteous
> death / yada, yada... what would cause a true believer to avoid this
>HeroQuest?
Not really being a true believer.
---------------------
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From: ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Vithela
Message-ID: <940201121...@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 1 Feb 94 14:10:52 GMT
RQ Daily Discussion List
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From: gad...@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois)
Subject: Lunar Intelligence
Message-ID: <940201164...@peaches.cs.utexas.edu>
Date: 1 Feb 94 04:48:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2978
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Lunar and Solar thoughts.
Date: 1 Feb 94 03:25:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2956
--David Gadbois
---------------------
X-RQ-ID: Extro
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From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: Devin's Statistics
Message-ID: <940202095...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 2 Feb 94 11:51:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2983
>3% x 33 attempts is not equal to 99%. I don't have the tables handy,
>but off the top of my head, I would guestimate that the actual total
>chance of Illumination (or anything with this set of %ages) is really
>around 40-60%.
>Percentages aren't commutative.
The chance of not becoming illuminated after any year
(assuming the 3% chance remains as is), is 97%.
The chance of NOT getting illuminated during 33 years
(implying the repeated failure of the 3% roll) equals
0.97^33 = 37%
Therefore, the chance of getting illuminated in 33 years
is 63%. Not bad hey?
--
Henk | Henk.La...@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | My first law of computing: "NEVER make assumptions"
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 29 Jan 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940131151...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 31 Jan 94 05:12:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2984
On the subject of illumination:
I rule that people really have no idea whether or not they've been asked a
Nysalor riddle. However, the existence of these Illuminating riddles is
known, so Storm Bulls in my campaigns tend to be VERY nasty to ANYONE who
asks strange questions. (This, plus their distrust of literacy makes life
VERY hard for researching Grey Sages--they get accused of being Illuminated
AND of being Godlearners nearly every time they venture out into Prax.)
Illumination IS spreading like a plague--look at the Lunar Empire. It is
only through the ceaseless hewing out of the illness by Storm Bulls, Arkati,
and other Chaos fighters that it's tide is stemmed. I also have been using
the RQ2 rules for Illumination, which make it a great deal harder to
become Illuminated (certainly not a certainty after only 3 or 4 successful
riddles).
Finally, Nysalor is worshipped in many locations, with many different
histories. In Kralorela and among the Western Elves, this god is of ancient
age and provides the gift of Illumination. It is in the barbarian belt
region that Nysalor becomes and/or is revealed as Nysalor/Gbaji. I would
speculate that it is the influence of the Storm(!) deities which caused the
appearance of Gbaji--specifically the conflict between Solar and Storm
cultures made a twisted god, much as a conflict-ridden family can make for
a twisted person.
Y'know, that Storm pantheon is a bunch of real bastards--nearly every disaster
the world has ever seen can be laid at their feet, or so it seems...
---------------------
From: SYS_RSH%PV...@HOBBES.CCA.CR.ROCKWELL.COM (Scott Haney, AFDS770 Functional Test X2069)
Subject: Subject: Devin's Statistics
Message-ID: <01H8EI6GX...@HOBBES.CCA.CR.ROCKWELL.COM>
Date: 2 Feb 94 12:51:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2985
>3% x 33 attempts is not equal to 99%. I don't have the tables handy,
>but off the top of my head, I would guestimate that the actual total
>chance of Illumination (or anything with this set of %ages) is
>really around 40-60%.
There's a 63.4% chance of increasing illumination at some point
during the 33 years (that's 1 minus 36.6%...36.6% is 97% raised to
the 33rd power). It's pretty unlikely that someone with a 3%
illumination will become Illuminated in 33 years. I haven't figured
up the average Illumination at 33 years (something different),
because I can't get many of the RQ publications here and I'm a bit
out of date on Lunar things. :(
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: re: RQ Daily
Message-ID: <940202150...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 2 Feb 94 03:03:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2986
Alex Ferguson asks:
>So what do the Pentans call Gorgorma? Not `Gorgorma', I presume,
>since they don't call Yelm `Yelm'.
They call her Eater of Horses. I don't think she's worshiped by them,
and primarily figures in their mythology.
Brian Maloney says:
>[Danfive Xaron] is the god of Lunar "justice".
Whoa. I don't think he's the god of justice. I think he's the god of
EVADING justice -- joining Danfive Xaron is how you escape the
penalty for your crimes, not how you pay them. Other than this, your
evaluation of DX as a sinister thought-control entity is spot on.
re: Warera/Werera
I was wrong, okay? I took my spelling from Greg one day at work at
Chaosium. So there. Sorry. I'll repent. Only a few obscure Pamaltelan
cultures use "Wereran". Or something.
---------------------
From: mmlab!cookec%max.mml...@uunet.UU.NET (Kiliki)
Subject: re: game size & price
Message-ID: <9402021525....@relay2.UU.NET>
Date: 2 Feb 94 15:11:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2987
->
-> John Medway replied to me:
-> >I dunno if this is a real problem. Look at the size of Champions or the
-> >new version of GURPS. They're pretty sizeable too. Doesn't seem to slow
-> >sales too much.
->
-> I could argue that the 120 page RQ2 was more popular than the 280 page RQ3...
->
-> Maybe I'm wrong, but _I'm_ put off by huge works, and I'm a fairly
-> dedicated gamer. Would you become a gamer if you thought you had to read a
-> 300 page tome? If you weren't a gamer, would you be more interested in
-> becoming one if you had to buy a $15 book or a $30 book?
->
-> I seem to be the only person bothered by this, but then, if you subscribe
-> to this list, you're probably a pretty hard-core fan. Does anyone know if
-> Avalon Hill has done any market research on this?
->
-> The problem is, RQ:AiG is fairly well done, and it's hard to know what to
-> cut (I've seen many places that editing could tighten up the prose and save
-> some words, but that's a minimal savings). I've only seen requests to put
-> more stuff in. There's more stuff _I'd_ like to see in the product, but it
-> might be far better to put it in a supplement.
->
-> One idea would be to yank Sorcery and put it in a Western sourcebook
-> (problem: the rest of that sourcebook probably isn't ready).
->
-> The detailed shaman rules could go in a Prax sourcebook (again, such a work
-> may not be ready for publication within a month or two of RQ:AiG).
->
-> All optional combat rules could go into a "Gods of War" supplement, which
-> detailed Humakt, Yanafal Tarnils, Wachaza, etc.
->
-> Oliver implied that while the supplement route wouldn't cost the gamer that
-> much, it would be a lot more work, and thus wouldn't happen.
->
->
->
--
| Chris Cooke - coo...@mmlab.UUCP <or> coo...@mml.mmc.com |
| Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug... |
---------------------
From: mmlab!cookec%max.mml...@uunet.UU.NET (Kiliki)
Subject: re: game size & cost
Message-ID: <9402021554....@relay1.UU.NET>
Date: 2 Feb 94 15:52:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2988
-> Maybe I'm wrong, but _I'm_ put off by huge works, and I'm a fairly
-> dedicated gamer. Would you become a gamer if you thought you had to read a
-> 300 page tome? If you weren't a gamer, would you be more interested in
-> becoming one if you had to buy a $15 book or a $30 book?
As some of you recall, I started a new RQ3 campaign about 6 months ago.
My ave game runs about 8-10 people( I prefer 6-8 but have run as many as 12).
Only 2 of my players had previous RQ experience(I didn't). We have now spawned
a second RQ3 campaign(with 5 players) starting for the 1st time this saturday.
So far, 4 purchased the "Deluxe Boxed Set" and 1 "New Bound Deluxe Book".
I know of 5 more definite(including a 2nd for myself) and 2 more "maybes".
My point? The market is there, all it takes is a successful campaign! Yes,
my players and I wish the price was lower BUT it hasn't stopped sales...
Speaking of which, is there any SoloQuest material? Maybe issuing material
of that nature would help with new sales? Can anyone offer suggestions on
how to acquire SoloQuest I & II?
--
| Chris Cooke - coo...@mmlab.UUCP <or> coo...@mml.mmc.com |
| Pinfeather Blandrake - Shaman of Ducka Fowl, Duck Point |
---------------------
From: CHARTLEY%ESOC....@vm.gmd.de (C. Hartley Data Processing Division)
Subject: home of the bold - questions
Message-ID: <9402021601.AA04194@Sun.COM>
Date: 2 Feb 94 16:01:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2989
I've been fascinated and excited by the RQ Con pieces, especially
those from the Home Of The Bold. Please keep them coming in as they're
great for those of us who couldn't make it!
I wondered if anyone could give me some general background info though.
Does anyone have a timeline of important events ?
How many Lunar soldiers (+ allies) were around Boldhome area?
How many of these actually fought?
How many rebel troops were there?
How many of these fought?
What were the losses on both sides?
Cheers,
Chris.
P.S. E-Mail would be great as I don't always get to see the Digest.
End of Message
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 02 Feb 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <940202183...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 2 Feb 94 18:38:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2990
>b) When a limb is maimed or severed, is the seven day limit to cast Regrow
>Limb still in effect.
There is no limit stated in the rules.
However, we have had a lot of fun with the following (Copyright Paul Reilly,
permission to use in a campaign ) rule:
The world gets restarted every Sacred Time. Changes become more 'real'
at that time. Thus if a severed limb, lost stats, etc, are not fixed before
Sacred Time your 'pattern' is altered a bit to match the new reality and
healing becomes more difficult. I usually give a 15% / year penalty against
the chance of Healing spells working, so that after 7 years the world has
adjusted to the new pattern - your aura has changed to match you physically
severed hand, thus setting a new pattern for Regeneration to work on. Only
great magics could fix the faded aura.
This works in other ways too, more on that another time.
- Paul R.
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: Zelazny
Message-ID: <940202184...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 2 Feb 94 18:42:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2991
Carl corrects me:
R>>Yanafil Tarnils: Was Humakt's best student. I am profoundly influenced by
> >the example of Rild and Yama in Zelazny's "Creatures of Light and Darkness"
>>in getting a handle on this relationship.
> Um, that's _Lord of Light_. _CoLD_ was a completely different book.
Absolutely correct.
Uh - brain cloud? I was attacked by a Krarshtide? I shouldn't post
late at night?
- Paul
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: mab...@batman.b11.ingr.com (boris)
Subject: RQ Auction on rec.games.frp.forsale
Message-ID: <1994020219...@batman.b11.ingr.com>
Date: 2 Feb 94 19:20:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2992
I think this will interest some here, anyway. For those who don't ever
look at rec.games.frp.marketplace, someone is currently auctioning off
a bunch of RQ2 stuff. Here is the posting.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvbegin included textvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.marketplace
From: uf...@freenet.Victoria.BC.CA (Jeff Johnson)
Subject: Runequest 2 & Other Chaosium Things Auction
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 1994 02:55:19 GMT
I have plundered my friends and acquaintances one last time to
round up enough items for yet another auction of RQ 2nd edition
material.Some non-RQ stuff by Chaosium is included as well.
Auction rules are after the item list.
----------------------------------------------------------------
RQ 2 Material
Pavis [No Bid]
Mint condition.
Boxed campaign set detailing the city of New Pavis, with several
adventures including the epic 'The Cradle'.
Cults of Prax [No Bid]
Very good condition, but original owner's name in ink on inside
cover. Book with complete cult details of a dozen deities
common to Prax. A milestone RPG supplement with a true feel
for mythology and religion.
Cults of Terror [No Bid]
Mint condition.
Book of evil and Chaotic cults, including the dreaded Thanatar
headhunters and Malia plague-spreaders.
RuneQuest Companion [No Bid]
Average condition; small tear on cover and some wear.
Book with eclectic mix of Gloranthan material, including a solo
adventure and extensive background info.
RuneQuest Foes - copy #1 [No Bid]
Excellent condition.
Book with detailed encounter stats for most of the monsters in
the RuneQuest 2nd edition rules.
RuneQuest Foes - copy #2 [No Bid]
Excellent condition, but original owner's name in ink on the
inside cover.
Gateway Bestiary [No Bid]
Excellent condition.
Book of non-Gloranthan monsters for the RuneQuest game.
Snakepipe Hollow [No Bid]
Excellent condition.
RQ adventure in a notorious Chaos nest.
This is the 1981 edition (green cover).
Creatures of Chaos 1 - Scorpion Men & Broos [No Bid]
Excellent condition, but with price sticker marks on cover.
List of encounter stats for - you guessed it - scorpion men
and broos.
Plunder [No Bid]
Excellent condition, but has a price sticker mark on fron cover.
Pregenerated lists of treasure and magic items.
Wyrm's Footnotes #12 (Vol II # 2) [No Bid]
Good condition, but has price sticker and some staining on front
cover. Articles on Agimori, Storm Pantheon, Divine Intervention,
the Lunar governor Fazzur Wideread, and more.
Wyrm's Footnotes #13 (Vol II # 3) [No Bid]
Excelent condition. Articles on the Third Wane, spirit combat,
and the Orlanth pantheon.
Duck Pond (Judges' Guild) [No Bid]
Excellent condition.
RQ adventure, sequel to Duck Tower. Written by Paul Jaquays.
Broken Tree Inn (Judges' Guild) [No Bid]
Good condition, but price sticker and sticker marks on cover.
Another Paul Jaquays RQ adventure.
Non-RQ Material
Stormbringer [No Bids]
Excellent condition.
Original edition of the RPG now called 'Elric'. A boxed set.
Elric, Battle at the End of Time [No Bids]
Excellent condition.
Multi-player board game of the battle for control of the world
of Michael Moorcock's Young Kingdoms.
Thieves' World [No Bids]
A boxed set with city maps, descriptions, and multi-system stats
for the city of Sanctuary, from the Thieves' World anthologies.
All the World's Monsters [No Bids]
Very good condition.
A 'monster manual' of unique critters for D&D-style games.
Lords of the Middle Sea [No Bids]
Very good condition.
Multi-player fantasy board game.
----------------------------------------------------------------
The rules for this auction are :
1. All bids are in US$ and must be in whole dollar amounts.
Conditional bids are accepted. A winning conditional bid is
adjusted downwards to a value of $1 more than the
next-highest bid. Conditional bids are marked with an
asterisk in email updates.
2. Bids do not include postage and handling, which is extra.
Postage for boxed items: $6/$4.50 US to the USA/Canada.
Postage for 1 or 2 modules: $4/$3 US to the USA/Canada.
Overseas/Europe costs are higher.
3. Payment in advance via postal money order only (exceptions
made for overseas orders); no cheques.
4. Bids will be accepted until midnight February 15, PST.
5. Regular updates will be conducted via email on W/F/Su.
Only email updates will include the bidders' names. There
will be several Usenet updates as well, which will include
current high bids but not names (to provide some privacy).
PLEASE INCLUDE A VALID EMAIL ADDRESS WITH ANY BID, to which the
email updates will be sent, especially if you are using a
different account than normal.
Jeff Johnson
uf...@freenet.victoria.bc.ca
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^end included text^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I hope this is of some help to those looking for those rare items.
----
Boris
---------------------
From: ROBE...@delphi.intel.com (Roderick Robertson, SC1-5, x52936)
Subject: Pentan Sun Gods, Polestar
Message-ID: <3F59F262...@delphi.intel.com>
Date: 2 Feb 94 18:33:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2993
Nick said (regarding Pole Star)
>I like to imagine a Polaris-worshipping general having Star-worshipping
>captains under him. Like his deity, he stands in the centre and directs.
>They move, obedient to his command and design. This way, "Initiates" of
>Polaris would in fact worship other stars under his command (that's the
>ordinary officers). The Rune Lords (Generals) would be the true Polaris
>worshippers.
>
>I may be playing one this weekend, so I'll let you know what happens.
Let's not forget the other 'domain' of Pole Star, Castle building. In
the Redlands, I'd assume that Polarin (Polarisan? Polaroi?) engineers
would be much in demand, and specialist units of field engineers
accompany each Lunar army to make forts (I assume that the regular Army
makes nightly palisades like the Romans).
I can see a whole sub-set of stars in the Polaris 'Pantheon', The
Lieutenant's Star of Archery, The Captain's Star of Cavalry, etc. Each is
a seperate star worshipped by a single rank and branch of Service. As
you are promoted you change the Star you worship (or maybe as you rise
in cult status, you get promoted?).
Mindspeech and Glamour would be a natural for all stars (all ranks),
'Branch' stars would also teach spells for their specialty (Archer stars
teach arrow magics, Swordsman stars teach Bladesharps, etc). Rune Spells
would tend more towards Command and Control types - Lower 'rank' stars
have spells for co-ordinating squads or platoons, Higher rank stars can
control regiments or brigades, Polaris teaches Army level spells. Battle
and Leadership skills are taught, along with the weapons/skills of the
branch of service. (Social Skills? An Officer AND a Gentleman?)
>As I think I've mentioned, the Grazers consider Yelm to be worship of an
>incomplete portion of the original Sun ("it don't mean a thing if it ain't
>got that swing" -- the Dara Happan Yelm doesn't include the Movement rune
>of Yu-Kargzant). Yu-Kargzant worship combines that portion with the deity
>once known as Kargzant the Nomad, and is thus obviously a much better
>deity.
I'm not so sure that Kargzant *has* the movement rune anymore - He
was chained by Orlanatus, and the sun no longer careens around the sky.
Perhapse this cut down on other movement abilities of the Nomads (Could
the Pentans fly before? Did Kargzant have Teleport type powers?) Gotta
re-read the GRoY to figure out which group had the Bird-Cavalry.
Well, enough babbling,
Roderick Robertson
---------------------
From: gsta...@aol.com
Subject: address
Message-ID: <940202175...@aol.com>
Date: 2 Feb 94 22:56:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2994
Henk, I have lost your address.
Please e-mail it to me so I can send you a copy of Glorious ReAscent.
- g
---------------------
From: eo...@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
Subject: An illuminating riddle
Message-ID: <940202223...@raesp-farn.mod.uk>
Date: 2 Feb 94 22:37:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2995
Geoff Gunner here.
Riddlers (illuminates) are likely to be welcomed into most societies. Without
the joys of the TV, people make their own entertainment. Asking riddles
is a standard thing. A riddler, intent on spreading the riddles, will go
and learn lots of normal ones, and slip the trick questions into the flow.
I don't know when the 'victim' would twig they've been illuminated - I don't
think it's an 'a-ha!' thing, more a gradual realisation that your old values
are a hollow mockery (or whatever). So a few days to weeks, perhaps, before
the effects make themselves fully knowm.
On diseases: a most vexing issue. Don't like the current rules; don't like my
own replacements. The trick is to get something that has a big effect initially
but then goes away (or death occurs), leaving perhaps permanent effects such
as loss of INT etc. IMHO the afflicted should have most of their (CON ? FP ?
STR ? ) wiped out for the duration of the average disease.
Anyway, in the meantime this is what I currently use, which is a bit less
arbitrary than the normal rules. It's a variation on spirit combat.
Your disease (lets take the Shakes) has a Virulence (rolled on 3D6 - higher
than 15 is pretty nasty).
The character gets exposed to the disease (gripe 1: automatic infection ?
CON * 5 ?) and contracts it. The disease has an 'effect time'; the period
between rolls. The victim matches CON vs. VIR, sucess gives -1D3 to it's VIR.
The disease matches VIR vs. CON; sucess and the victim looses 1D3 DEX (or
whatever you define the diseases effects to be). A special means that 1 point
of this is permanent.
I've found this gives reasonably good durations - after all, most diseases have
some sort of standard lifetime. But effects still aren't right.
The attribute-like VIR makes adjusting for things like being in bed, tended by
healers, etc, fairly easy to rule on; just add or subtract from either the
CON resistance or attack.
Anyway; sleep beckons. Geoff. (szzzzzz)
---------------------
From: ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: Whoops
Message-ID: <1994020301...@panix.com>
Date: 2 Feb 94 15:06:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2996
san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) writes in part:
>Carl Fink claims:
>> The Vadeli and Veldang are the same race -- note that the "missing"
>>caste of the Vadeli are blueskinned. Greg's unpublished "Lunar
>>Book" mentions the conquest of Peloria by blueskins in the God Time.
>I'm not so sure. Mere possession of blue skin is not enough to make
>you racially identical -- the Veldang never, as far as I know, had
>brown or red-skinned racial members, and the Vadeli never conquered
>Peloria -- the God Time conquerors of Peloria were undoubtedly
>Veldang from the Blue Moon. IMO, the Veldang and Vadeli are not the
>same race at all, and only a heroquest to prove otherwise would
>enable the Vadeli to utilize Veldang as their Lords.
> Note that the red and brown Vadeli have in fact encountered
>Veldang (in Fonrit), and did not appear to recognize them in any way
>as their missing caste.
>So there.
But I write:
R> Sandy *told* me this...
Apparently I remember incorrectly. Sorry about that. So why DO those
people on Teleos have all those skin colors?
---------------------
From: 10027...@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: One True World?
Message-ID: <940203043642_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 3 Feb 94 04:36:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2997
_______________
Joerg appended:
> I like the philosophical implications of this:
> The only way the Red Moon embodies Law is when Dying.
> For the Red Moon, the Compromise is to die.
<g> Nice one! I hadn't generalised it quite so far, but something like that
would explain how the Lunar Goddess sees herself as a revitalising force in
a stagnant cosmos.
________________
Bryan burst out:
> This sort of priviliged knowledge one-true-worldism is one of the
> things that really irks me and really irked a few newcomers to
> Glorantha whom I had recently introduced to RQ. Either all the
> information should be freely available or people should stop
> preaching "corrections" from sources that cannot be had, even in
> facsimile.
Not a "correction", Bryan. Just mentioning an odd fact.
I enjoyed what you wrote, and would prefer to see things done that way. It
was an entertaining, interesting and new approach to Lunars & Humakti. My
reference to the tongueless Humakti beggars of Pavis, mentioned as an one-
line joke in the old Pavis Pack, was an attempt to remind others of one
colourful background detail from an old source. I am very sorry to have
irked you so greatly by mentioning them.
I am also *absolutely* baffled to be accused of one-true-worldism. The only
way to be a "one-true-worldist" in Glorantha would be never to have any new
ideas; to base everything on published material; to clear whatever original
thoughts came up with Those Who Know; and to fear *absolutely* the smallest
risk of contradicting published/accepted information. Does anybody think I
do this?
One True Worlding is impossible. I don't do it. Nobody I know or work with
does it. And that includes all us folk at Tales, and Greg Stafford himself.
What would a One True Worlder say to Elmal/Yelmalio, eh?
Your exasperation has led you to say something I hope you don't mean. I'm
not about to start restricting my analysis and examination of Glorantha to
the lowest, most-recently-published denominator, and think this list would
become terribly boring if everybody on it did so. I try to drag up old,
no-longer-available ideas for the *benefit* of guys like you who don't have
access to them. Often these are one-liners or passing references from older
sources which resonate surprisingly with more recent thoughts/ideas.
Anyway, that's one of the things I like most about Glorantha.
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: 10027...@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Chariots of the Gods
Message-ID: <940203054457_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 3 Feb 94 05:44:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2998
(Lost this from my last posting: ho hum. Better resend it now it's back.)
(Oh, BTW, remember those exams I was hassled by last autumn? I passed!!!)
____________
Paul opined:
On the Orlanthi analogues. Celts or Hellenes, what's the difference?
Everyone out there has read the Iliad and the Tain, right?
> Old Carmania: I am sure that there is a lot of the 'barbarian warlord'
> strain left in modern Carmanians - it's just hidden under a clever Lunar
> veneer of politeness. Still nasty down deep. But even deeper down, you
> find the 'nice' Carmanians of the Light Side. However, still deeper
> down, they're even nastier than you thought...
That's a very true observation, and things like this (I hope!) will be the
pay-off at the end of the Carmanian History project. Cultures aren't mono-
lithic: they evolve and develop. The "Lunarisation" of Carmania in the late
Empire (last couple of centuries) can only be a veneer over their existing
beliefs and structures. Hasn't had long enough to go deeper. Of course, as
many "Lunar" concepts/doctrines came (via Irrippi Ontor, a Carmanian mage,
and Yanafal Tarnils, a Carmanian nobleman) from Carmania to begin with...
Round and round it goes... (very cyclical).
_____________
MOB informed:
> It also mentions "Vegemite sandwiches", which is where many Americans
> first heard of the stuff.
I imagine many Americans heard of vomit before meeting Vegemite, though few
can have met it in such concentrated form...
Oh, that wasn't what you meant? <g>
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: j...@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: Friends and Citizens of the Empire
Message-ID: <940203080...@hp0.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 3 Feb 94 08:09:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 2999
Proclamation from the Office of Luxius Interioris,
Honored Senator from the City of Alkoth
Friends and Citizens of the Empire,
Stories have been circulated regarding an over abundance of "intelligence"
agents of the Empire, who act in opposition to each other, to the detriment
of all of us, and the way of the Goddess. Rumors have been passed, telling
of organizations, with fantastic names, who work for themselves, and not
for the whole.
Such thoughts are entirely fantasy. There are no large scheming groups,
lurking in the wings, awaiting oportunities to prey on each other, and on
our loyal populace. That is not the way of the Goddess. The servants of the
Goddess in this world are one in thought and deed. We are the instruments
of her wishes. Would one think our Goddess was not of one mind? Of course
not!
We are here to further her faith - our faith - in this world. To bring
balance and clarity to the lives and minds of all. Those who see the Lunar
Way, speak the Lunar Way, and live the Lunar Way are our ideals. We must
all strive to live in this way.
We must help others along this path, by whatever means are appropriate.
Persons, vigilant in their service to the Empire and our Goddess, who help
us guide others are our most valuable friends. Others who would impede our
glorious procession, who attack our Emperor and the Senate with satire and
absurd farce, must be helped to see and understand their error. Once they
understand, they aid in our mission in this world, as well. Help us guide
others who would otherwise not be able to travel with us.
Trust in the Goddess, and her servants, for we know The Way. Give care to
what rumor you trust. Our enemies are deceitful, and try to sway us from
our path, with falsehood and inuendo. We must all work together toward our
common goal. Trust in the Goddess, and her servants.
Luxius Interioris,
Society for the Ascendency of the Red Moon,
Scimitar of Yanafal Tarnils,
General of the Army, Retired.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| john_...@zycor.lgc.com | Landmark Graphics Corp | 512.292.2325 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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