Aber-Rant
Lord Stevil the Parakeet Shaman
There's this game based on super heroes. It's called Aberrant.
If you don't have it, You Must Get This Game. Now.
You might ask, "How about the SAGA Marvel stuff?" Screw it. "And DC
Heroes?" Don't need it. "Champions?" Superfluous. "Heroes Unlimited?"
Bah! This never was good for anything but lining bird cages anyway.
I'm normally not one to bash on other games, but this game really is
spiffy-keen. It's easily adaptable to any setting, assuming you don't
want to go with the campaign setting presented.
I was somewhat intrigued by the idea of Aberrant, but I didn't intend to
buy it. That is, until I played it. Hobbie Regan ran an Aberrant demo
out of a Waldenbooks store (you might recognize the name; he's listed as a
playtester for Wraith: the Great War). I went and bought the game as soon
as I robbed enough wheelchair-bound little old ladies to provide the
required $26 (with tax) to purchase the item. Fuck-ing A!!!!
Patronize Waldenbooks. I know, it's a corporate conglomerate. But it is
a loserHH^H^ geekHH^H gamer-friendly conglomerate.
This is a wonderful thing to tide me over until 3rd Ed D&D comes out next
year. (Not much reason to by WOD products any more, SINCE WHITE WOLF IS
DROPPING WRAITH, THE BEST GAME THEY ARE PRODUCING!!! At least they'll
keep doing Aberrant supplements.) :(
Well, anyway, it seems my Korean kiddie snuff is through downloading, so I
must be off. (One of the perks of being a Pentex employee, I tell ya!)
Oh, by the way: Get. Aberrant. Now.
--Lord Stevil the Parakeet Shaman
"Simpson, a custodian for the University of Arkansas, was carrying
condoms, a teddy bear and a pistol when he was arrested Saturday."
--News report of pedophile caught trying to buy 8 year-old girl
from damned meddling fedHH^HH^undercover FBI agent.
You can attract more flies with honey than vinegar, but shit will hook'em
before anything else.
Bruce, The Ghost Who Writes
>Oh, by the way: Get. Aberrant. Now.
Wow. Thanks for the kind words, Stevil.
--
Bruce Baugh / bruce...@sff.net
"I have joyously shut myself up in the solitary domain where the mask
holds sway, wholly made up of violence, light and brilliance."
- James Ensor
Joar
I fart in Abberant´s general direction...........and Wraith smells of
elderberries!
--
[ *********Joar Holmström**************]
[ Webpage:http://www.algonet.se/~joar1 ]
Lord Stevil the Parakeet Shaman
> In article
> <Pine.LNX.4.10.99100...@ocean.otr.usm.edu>, Lord
> Stevil the Parakeet Shaman <smar...@ocean.otr.usm.edu> wrote:
>
> >Oh, by the way: Get. Aberrant. Now.
>
> Wow. Thanks for the kind words, Stevil.
No problemo, man. There's enough negativity on here, with people griping
about this, that and the other (including me). When someone does good
work, it needs to be pointed out. I especially love the N! and memo-style
introductory material in the first half of the book; wonderful material.
The system is great, more refined than the WoD games; from what I
understand, some of these changes made their way into Vampire revised.
I'm considering buying Trinity now, just so characters can create
characters with psi-powers (when going with a different game-world).
Hell, I can't see why Gifts, Rotes/Sphere effects, Discipline levels and
the like can't be written up as powers and added to the mix. The
possibilities are ENDLESS.
An aside: when playing in a non-canon game setting/world, and you don't
want to go with the whole Taint/M-R node paradigm, how would you go about
balancing the characters? Bruce, anyone?
What I'd do is work on a Merit/Flaw type system, giving extral Nova Points
for taking character weaknesses or limitations to powers. For example,
some characters can only shapeshift into a specific form or group of forms
(like Garou), or Marvel's Sandman can only use Sizemorph: Grow when
standing in an area with lots of sand. Node simply translates to how well
a character channels quantum/mystic/psi/super-duper energy.
The only thing, though, Bruce... why'd you have to kill off Slider?! She
was kewl. :(
Later,
--Lord Stevil the Parakeet Shaman, and Bruce Baugh fanboy
John Peralta
> I especially love the N! and memo-style
> introductory material in the first half of the book; wonderful material.
This is the only part I didn't much care for. Not because it's substandard
but because it does not reflect the type of game I'm going for. Call me
shallow but I wanted something like the world of Image comics (Cyberforce,
Gen 13, Backlash, Wetworks, Weapon Zero, Stormwatch...). I understand that
for White Wolf this might be too vanilla, so I'm in the process of adapting
Aberrant to something closer to my liking.
> The system is great, more refined than the WoD games;
The System is what I love the most about the game. It's fairly straight
forward and allows almost all the flexibility one could desire.
>
> An aside: when playing in a non-canon game setting/world, and you don't
> want to go with the whole Taint/M-R node paradigm, how would you go about
> balancing the characters? Bruce, anyone?
As I stated above, I don't stick to the "world" provided by Aberrant and am
in the process of converting the rules to a new campaign I'd like to play. I
haven't ironed out all the details yet, in truth I'm still brainstorming the
whole idea. Best I can figure the major stumbling block is quantum and, more
to the point, the quantum pool. If your game is going to be anything like
mine the superheroes don't "run out of power" by using pionts in the quantum
pool. So there is no need for quantum and a quantum pool. HOWEVER, certain
powers mesure the powers affect as a function of how many quantum points are
used. the first solution I have come to with this problem is to simply
create the chararacter as you normally would using all the regular rules.
Once in play disregard the limited amount of points in the pool.
I'm not sure this is a good solution but as I said it's still a work in
progress.
By the same token taint does not have a place in my game. If I want to
create some bad guys I'll do it the same way I do the good guys.
There is something else I'd like to mention. In trying to convert some of my
favorite characters to Aberrant I have found that the biggest problem is a
lack of technology driven abilities. For example the Wetworks simbiots,
Backlash's psi-whips, Cybernetic enhancements of any type, alien weaponry
etc. It's difficult to even simulate something like Spiderman's web
shooters. Any thoughts?
How about some technological enhancements for the game? Give us weapons,
vehicles, equipment.
Thanks for the great game.
John Peralta
jerome rondeau
John Peralta wrote:
>
> Best I can figure the major stumbling block is quantum and, more
> to the point, the quantum pool. If your game is going to be anything like
> mine the superheroes don't "run out of power" by using pionts in the quantum
> pool. So there is no need for quantum and a quantum pool. HOWEVER, certain
> powers mesure the powers affect as a function of how many quantum points are
> used.
One possibility is to Say that the pool that the powers draw energy from is a
separate stat. Make it 2X the quantum pool, and come up with a quicker way to
recharge (got my second wind)
> There is something else I'd like to mention. In trying to convert some of my
> favorite characters to Aberrant I have found that the biggest problem is a
> lack of technology driven abilities. For example the Wetworks simbiots,
> Backlash's psi-whips, Cybernetic enhancements of any type, alien weaponry
> etc. It's difficult to even simulate something like Spiderman's web
> shooters. Any thoughts?
Take a page from champions, buy the power but give it a reduced cost based on
how easy it is to take away. Ex. a pistol is easier to knock out of the hand
than a wrist blaster. So the pistol has its cost reduced further than the wrist
blaster, as its easier to neutralise.
> How about some technological enhancements for the game? Give us weapons,
> vehicles, equipment.
>
> Thanks for the great game.
> John Peralta
Jerome
Marizhavashti Kali
John Peralta wrote:
>
> This is the only part I didn't much care for. Not because it's substandard
> but because it does not reflect the type of game I'm going for. Call me
> shallow but I wanted something like the world of Image comics (Cyberforce,
> Gen 13, Backlash, Wetworks, Weapon Zero, Stormwatch...). I understand that
> for White Wolf this might be too vanilla, so I'm in the process of adapting
> Aberrant to something closer to my liking.
You're thinking of Wildstorm, you mean? Formerly part of Image, now DC?
Stormwatch's feel is amazingly easy to achieve (I think some of it's
there already). Watch for Project Utopia for more information.
--
Deird'Re M. Brooks | xe...@teleport.com | cam#9309026
Listowner: Fading Suns, Trinity and Aberrant
"Balance is nothing, story is everything. Obey your ST."
http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | http://www.telelists.com
cannon
> I have to agree with you here. Aberrant is a FANTASTIC game.
>
> > I especially love the N! and memo-style
> > introductory material in the first half of the book; wonderful
material.
>
substandard
> but because it does not reflect the type of game I'm going for. Call
me
> shallow but I wanted something like the world of Image comics
(Cyberforce,
> Gen 13, Backlash, Wetworks, Weapon Zero, Stormwatch...). I understand
that
> for White Wolf this might be too vanilla, so I'm in the process of
adapting
> Aberrant to something closer to my liking.
I'm headed in the same direction you are, I think, but I'm trying to
wedge everything into the gameworld as presented. It isn't that hard,
really. The Directive or Team Tomorrow make great Stormwatch/Authority
templates, and a lot of the other factions can fit in analogues of
other stuff from the Wildstorm/Image universe. The Savage Dragon was
remarkably easy to convert, too.
> As I stated above, I don't stick to the "world" provided by Aberrant
and am
> in the process of converting the rules to a new campaign I'd like to
play. I
> haven't ironed out all the details yet, in truth I'm still
brainstorming the
> whole idea. Best I can figure the major stumbling block is quantum
and, more
> to the point, the quantum pool. If your game is going to be anything
like
> mine the superheroes don't "run out of power" by using pionts in the
quantum
> pool. So there is no need for quantum and a quantum pool.
Possibly. I mean, superheroes do eventually wear down, get tired, etc.
and some do "run out of power," particularly the novice types. At
higher levels of quantum and with bigger quantum pools (ie with more
accumulated experience) that problem becomes less likely.
> HOWEVER,
certain
> powers mesure the powers affect as a function of how many quantum
points are
> used. the first solution I have come to with this problem is to simply
> create the chararacter as you normally would using all the regular
rules.
> Once in play disregard the limited amount of points in the pool.
> I'm not sure this is a good solution but as I said it's still a work
in
> progress.
> By the same token taint does not have a place in my game.
Taint is such a good way to make guys like the Thing, the Hulk,
Spawn, Jack Hawksmoor, Dragon, and others though. Heck, even the
beautiful superhumans like Apollo, Fairchild, Wonder Woman etc.
have taint (Unearthly Beauty, Glow, and the like).
> If I want to
> create some bad guys I'll do it the same way I do the good guys.
> There is something else I'd like to mention. In trying to convert some
of my
> favorite characters to Aberrant I have found that the biggest problem
is a
> lack of technology driven abilities. For example the Wetworks
simbiots,
> Backlash's psi-whips, Cybernetic enhancements of any type, alien
weaponry
> etc. It's difficult to even simulate something like Spiderman's web
> shooters. Any thoughts?
Coming in Aberrant: Year One, aren't they?
--
Jim Cannon
"The only thing we've learned from the study of history is that no one
ever learns from the study of history."
http://members.xoom.com/cannonj
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Bruce, The Ghost Who Writes
>I'm considering buying Trinity now, just so characters can create
>characters with psi-powers (when going with a different game-world).
>Hell, I can't see why Gifts, Rotes/Sphere effects, Discipline levels and
>the like can't be written up as powers and added to the mix. The
>possibilities are ENDLESS.
Get Trinity softcover and the Trinity Player's Guide; this latter gives
you a really freeform system.
>The only thing, though, Bruce... why'd you have to kill off Slider?! She
>was kewl. :(
I haven't written for Aberant yet. Coming up next year, Kraig'll let me
make my mark on some fun stuff.
Dave Conrad
> You might ask, "How about the SAGA Marvel stuff?" Screw it. "And DC
> Heroes?" Don't need it. "Champions?" Superfluous. "Heroes Unlimited?"
> Bah! This never was good for anything but lining bird cages anyway.
>
Not having had the chance to really see Aberant yet, *nothing* is better
than Champions! Or to put it more accurately, Champions is better than
everything else. Different games have their strong points, but Champions just
kicks all sorts of ass.
>
> Well, anyway, it seems my Korean kiddie snuff is through downloading, so I
> must be off. (One of the perks of being a Pentex employee, I tell ya!)
Hey, I live in Korea. If you send me Aberrant stuff, I'll send you the
Korean kiddie snuff stuff.
--
Dave C.
iN*T*x
"To break the rules is to break the spell" - C. Lasch
James Kiley
>The system is great, more refined than the WoD games; from what I
>understand, some of these changes made their way into Vampire revised.
Yep; that's the system that Andrew Bates created for Trinity. It's
not _that_ different from the standard Storyteller mechanic, but it's
faster and easier. I really like it.
>I'm considering buying Trinity now, just so characters can create
>characters with psi-powers (when going with a different game-world).
Buy Trinity. Trinity is cool. Trinity is good. Trinity is _cheap_
at $15. And then buy America Offline, co-authored by your hero,
Bruce Baugh! :-)
>An aside: when playing in a non-canon game setting/world, and you don't
>want to go with the whole Taint/M-R node paradigm, how would you go about
>balancing the characters? Bruce, anyone?
I'd actually use the Taint system and mechanic and just not attribute
it to an overblown M-R node, but rather as a "disad" system. See,
for instance, Ben Grimm.
>What I'd do is work on a Merit/Flaw type system, giving extral Nova Points
>for taking character weaknesses or limitations to powers. For example,
>some characters can only shapeshift into a specific form or group of forms
>(like Garou), or Marvel's Sandman can only use Sizemorph: Grow when
>standing in an area with lots of sand. Node simply translates to how well
>a character channels quantum/mystic/psi/super-duper energy.
Eeenh. Too Championsy for my tastes. Don't get me wrong, I like
Champions a lot, but I don't want Aberrant to get too Championsy.
>The only thing, though, Bruce... why'd you have to kill off Slider?! She
>was kewl. :(
Don't blame Bruce; he hasn't had any words published for Aberrant yet.
Blame Rob Hatch. :-)
jk
Erik Stutzman
>
> If you don't have it, You Must Get This Game. Now.
>
> Heroes?" Don't need it. "Champions?" Superfluous. "Heroes
Unlimited?"
> Bah! This never was good for anything but lining bird cages anyway.
>
> want to go with the campaign setting presented.
If you like a WW First Edition (with all the baggage the First Eds
carry):
Can powers heal aggravated damage?
Do Clones have the same stats or do those stats drop like falling rocks?
Are Mega-Attributes separate from Attrbiutes (the Str 1, Mega-Str 1
nova) or they connected (the Mitoids, Growth and Density powers)?
What happens when a nova uses Warp to open a portal to space (or the
bottom of an ocean, or the mantle of the Earth)?
Why aren't there any super-tech rules in the book, considering a nova
could have Mega-Intelligence and build such tech?
Why are power effects based on with dice pool successes (something
which almost guarantees no player will get more than one level of most
powers since Mega-Atts give MANY more successes)?
Why do Mega-Attribute descriptions fail to match the actual abilities?
(Nova X has Mega-Stamina 5, giving him a soak of 10 bashing, 5 lethal.
According to the description missiles bounce off his chest. Yeah right.)
Why does a nova with 4 levels of Growth (making said nova roughly 80-
100 feet tall) only get 4 extra health levels and why do opponents only
get two extra dice to hit him? How hard is it to hit something that
tall?
These are just the things I've noticed. I'm sure others have noticed
even more problems. Aberrant isn't all bad but you may want to wait for
someone to actually put fixes up before you get it.
dch...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu
<snippage>
: If you like a WW First Edition (with all the baggage the First Eds
: carry):
: Can powers heal aggravated damage?
Yes, though it isn't stated specifically - See Healing, p. 201: double
quantum and a willpower point.
: Do Clones have the same stats or do those stats drop like falling rocks?
Stats drop, though not 'like falling rocks'.
: Are Mega-Attributes separate from Attrbiutes (the Str 1, Mega-Str 1
: nova) or they connected (the Mitoids, Growth and Density powers)?
They're separate but there is a connection between them. A Str 1, Mega-Str
1 nova will be less powerful than a Str 4, Mega-Str 1 nova.
: What happens when a nova uses Warp to open a portal to space (or the
: bottom of an ocean, or the mantle of the Earth)?
He can look through and see it. Or he can step through and hope he
survives.
: Why aren't there any super-tech rules in the book, considering a nova
: could have Mega-Intelligence and build such tech?
This will be covered in an upcoming book.
: Why are power effects based on with dice pool successes (something
: which almost guarantees no player will get more than one level of most
: powers since Mega-Atts give MANY more successes)?
If you roll successes with them. Mega-Attributes also cost more than
low-level powers, and at higher-level powers (especially the Mastery
fields) you get a 'bonus' ability with each level.
: Why do Mega-Attribute descriptions fail to match the actual abilities?
: (Nova X has Mega-Stamina 5, giving him a soak of 10 bashing, 5 lethal.
: According to the description missiles bounce off his chest. Yeah right.)
No, it says that missiles 'practically' bounce off your chest. Slight
exaggeration for effect.
: Why does a nova with 4 levels of Growth (making said nova roughly 80-
: 100 feet tall) only get 4 extra health levels and why do opponents only
: get two extra dice to hit him? How hard is it to hit something that
: tall?
Exactly two dice easier.
: These are just the things I've noticed. I'm sure others have noticed
: even more problems. Aberrant isn't all bad but you may want to wait for
: someone to actually put fixes up before you get it.
I haven't noticed anything major. The game is playable as it is - what's
more, it's FUN. :)
-Dana
Marizhavashti Kali
Erik Stutzman wrote:
>
> If you like a WW First Edition (with all the baggage the First Eds
> carry):
On a cruaade again?
> Can powers heal aggravated damage?
Yes.
> Do Clones have the same stats or do those stats drop like falling rocks?
The traits drop, as the rules state.
> Are Mega-Attributes separate from Attrbiutes (the Str 1, Mega-Str 1
> nova) or they connected (the Mitoids, Growth and Density powers)?
Mega-Attributes are purchased separately (as the rules state). Some
powers and Mite allow you to boost Strength into Mega-Strength.
> What happens when a nova uses Warp to open a portal to space (or the
> bottom of an ocean, or the mantle of the Earth)?
What do you think happens?
> Why aren't there any super-tech rules in the book, considering a nova
> could have Mega-Intelligence and build such tech?
Because they're in Aberrant: Year One?
> Why are power effects based on with dice pool successes (something
> which almost guarantees no player will get more than one level of most
> powers since Mega-Atts give MANY more successes)?
Because power duration is based on Quantum + Power Level? Because Range
is based on Quantum + Power Level? Most powers benefit from having a
high power level.
> Why do Mega-Attribute descriptions fail to match the actual abilities?
> (Nova X has Mega-Stamina 5, giving him a soak of 10 bashing, 5 lethal.
> According to the description missiles bounce off his chest. Yeah right.)
Dramatic license.
> Why does a nova with 4 levels of Growth (making said nova roughly 80-
> 100 feet tall) only get 4 extra health levels and why do opponents only
> get two extra dice to hit him? How hard is it to hit something that
> tall?
It's a game. It's cinematic, not realistic.
> These are just the things I've noticed. I'm sure others have noticed
> even more problems. Aberrant isn't all bad but you may want to wait for
> someone to actually put fixes up before you get it.
And if someone expresses a liking for a game, you really don't have to
rush in and try to kill any interest he might have.
Plonk. Again.
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
Marizhavashti Kali
dch...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu wrote:
>
> I haven't noticed anything major. The game is playable as it is - what's
> more, it's FUN. :)
You don't understand - Erik's on a crusade. Any evidence you present
which does not agree with his assumptions will be tossed out or flamed.
Erik Stutzman
<dch...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu> wrote in message
news:7tdjsi$ofd$1...@news.fsu.edu...> : If you like a WW First Edition (with all the baggage the First Eds
> : carry):
>
> : Can powers heal aggravated damage?
>
> Yes, though it isn't stated specifically - See Healing, p. 201: double
> quantum and a willpower point.
Actually it states specifically that they can't (in the Regeneration
description) and it states that they can (when discussing agg damage).
>
> : Do Clones have the same stats or do those stats drop like falling rocks?
>
> Stats drop, though not 'like falling rocks'.
Really? Duplicator Man has impressive but not peak Atts (let's say 3-4 in
each). With two clones he's looking at 'clones' with Attributes of 1. I find
it bizarre that a clone with 'identical Attributes' is uglier, stupider,
clumsier, and weaker than the nova.
>
> : Are Mega-Attributes separate from Attrbiutes (the Str 1, Mega-Str 1
> : nova) or they connected (the Mitoids, Growth and Density powers)?
>
> They're separate but there is a connection between them. A Str 1, Mega-Str
> 1 nova will be less powerful than a Str 4, Mega-Str 1 nova.
I guess I just should just accept the idea that the weakling who lifts cars
and the bodybuilder who lifts cars don't have the same strength...
>
> : What happens when a nova uses Warp to open a portal to space (or the
> : bottom of an ocean, or the mantle of the Earth)?
>
> He can look through and see it. Or he can step through and hope he
> survives.
What I mean is: the bottom of oceans has a HELL of a lot of pressure
(presumably the earth's mantle does as well). Shouldn't water/magma come
shooting out of the warp point? Shouldn't the atmosphere be sucked into the
warp that's opened to space?
>
> : Why aren't there any super-tech rules in the book, considering a nova
> : could have Mega-Intelligence and build such tech?
>
> This will be covered in an upcoming book.
>
> : Why are power effects based on with dice pool successes (something
> : which almost guarantees no player will get more than one level of most
> : powers since Mega-Atts give MANY more successes)?
>
> If you roll successes with them. Mega-Attributes also cost more than
> low-level powers, and at higher-level powers (especially the Mastery
> fields) you get a 'bonus' ability with each level.
If I want a telepath, I can spend 5 nova points to get Telepathy with the
Surreptitious Extra. More level of Telepathy cost 5 point each (or a lot
more XP). 5 levels of Mega-Perception cost 15 points and they give me 15
possible successes (compared to the 3 I would get from Telepathy). If my
nova doesn't have Mastery Fields then Mega-Atts seem a hell of a lot better
than multiple levels of Level 2 powers.
>
> : Why do Mega-Attribute descriptions fail to match the actual abilities?
> : (Nova X has Mega-Stamina 5, giving him a soak of 10 bashing, 5 lethal.
> : According to the description missiles bounce off his chest. Yeah right.)
>
> No, it says that missiles 'practically' bounce off your chest. Slight
> exaggeration for effect.
'Slight'? Nova X has to worry about a .44 Magnum bullet, I think missiles
won't even 'practically' be bouncing off his chest.
>
> : Why does a nova with 4 levels of Growth (making said nova roughly 80-
> : 100 feet tall) only get 4 extra health levels and why do opponents only
> : get two extra dice to hit him? How hard is it to hit something that
> : tall?
>
> Exactly two dice easier.
So hitting a traffic sign is exactly two dice harder than hitting a
building? Okay...
>
> : These are just the things I've noticed. I'm sure others have noticed
> : even more problems. Aberrant isn't all bad but you may want to wait for
> : someone to actually put fixes up before you get it.
>
> I haven't noticed anything major. The game is playable as it is - what's
> more, it's FUN. :)
>
> -Dana
It's playable unless you're bothered by contradictions. When one paragraph
tells me something and the NEXT paragraph tells me something else I get a
little perturbed.
Erik Stutzman
Marizhavashti Kali <xe...@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:37FA536A...@teleport.com...
>
>
> Erik Stutzman wrote:
> >
> > If you like a WW First Edition (with all the baggage the First Eds
> > carry):
>
A what?
>
> > Can powers heal aggravated damage?
>
> Yes.
So you follow the rule in the agg damage section. What do you do with the
rule in the Regeneration description? Let me guess: "This is a WW product.
Rules? Who needs them?"
>
> > Do Clones have the same stats or do those stats drop like falling rocks?
>
> The traits drop, as the rules state.
How can they be 'exact duplicates' if they are all stupider, uglier,
clumsier, weaker, less hardy, less perceptive, more slow-witted, less
charming, and less persuasive than the host? Not to mention their less than
exact Abilites and powers..
>
> > Are Mega-Attributes separate from Attrbiutes (the Str 1, Mega-Str 1
> > nova) or they connected (the Mitoids, Growth and Density powers)?
>
> Mega-Attributes are purchased separately (as the rules state). Some
> powers and Mite allow you to boost Strength into Mega-Strength.
All right, what happens if a nova lowers the gravity around a group of
Strength 5 musclemen? Does their Str jump to Mega levels or not? If not why
would a nova with Str 5 get the boost (which is the impression the book has
given me)?
>
> > What happens when a nova uses Warp to open a portal to space (or the
> > bottom of an ocean, or the mantle of the Earth)?
>
> What do you think happens?
I think there's a lot of magma/water entering the area or a lot of
atmosphere leaving. Does this mean Warp can cause damage surpassing most
quantum powers?
>
> > Why aren't there any super-tech rules in the book, considering a nova
> > could have Mega-Intelligence and build such tech?
>
> Because they're in Aberrant: Year One?
I keep forgetting that. I'm so glad I got 90 pages on Stone Cold Badass and
friends instead..
>
> > Why are power effects based on with dice pool successes (something
> > which almost guarantees no player will get more than one level of most
> > powers since Mega-Atts give MANY more successes)?
>
> Because power duration is based on Quantum + Power Level? Because Range
> is based on Quantum + Power Level? Most powers benefit from having a
> high power level.
Most powers also benefit from an ungodly level of Mega-Atts. If I want a
world-class teleporter I'm going to buy 5 levels of Mega-Perception over 5
levels of Teleport simply for the greater number of successes (which AFAIK
actually determine the distance one can travel).
For powers like Armor, levels are everything. For other powers, one level
and Mega-Atts is all you need.
>
> > Why do Mega-Attribute descriptions fail to match the actual abilities?
> > (Nova X has Mega-Stamina 5, giving him a soak of 10 bashing, 5 lethal.
> > According to the description missiles bounce off his chest. Yeah right.)
>
> Dramatic license.
So all Mega-Atts (except possibly Mega-Str) are described by 'dramatic
license'? Most of them don't give the sort of abilites described in their
mini-write ups.
>
> > Why does a nova with 4 levels of Growth (making said nova roughly 80-
> > 100 feet tall) only get 4 extra health levels and why do opponents only
> > get two extra dice to hit him? How hard is it to hit something that
> > tall?
>
> It's a game. It's cinematic, not realistic.
I wonder why the game tries so hard to present a plausible setting then..
>
> > These are just the things I've noticed. I'm sure others have noticed
> > even more problems. Aberrant isn't all bad but you may want to wait for
> > someone to actually put fixes up before you get it.
>
> And if someone expresses a liking for a game, you really don't have to
> rush in and try to kill any interest he might have.
>
> Plonk. Again.
Stupid me for attacking WW's new sacred cow. I think I'll crawl into a
corner and wait for the 'Universe Creation' and 'Time Travel' powers and the
2000 year old Divis Mal (with the ability to remove pemanent Taint) to kill
the interest. That way I won't have to do any work on the subject.
As for killing interest, I've seen some of these questions brought up before
and NO ONE has bothered to give any official answers. AFAIK there is no
'Aberrant errata' page at the WW site. If the developer/writers can't be
bothered to explain their game why should I bother to keep quiet about
things I see as rule screw-ups? People have a right to know about some of
these things (like the Clone/Agg Damage contradictions and how
Mega-Attribute successes affect powers). Simply saying 'BUY IT NOW, IT'S SO
FLEXIBLE' along with a rant about Wraith's trip to Oblivion seems just as
offensive as me pointing out some perceived flaws in this overhyped book.
Erik Stutzman
Marizhavashti Kali <xe...@teleport.com> wrote:
>
>
> dch...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu wrote:
> >
> > I haven't noticed anything major. The game is playable as it is -
what's
> > more, it's FUN. :)
>
> which does not agree with his assumptions will be tossed out or
flamed.
>
> --
> Deird'Re M. Brooks
Which means I am now in the esteemed company of most WW developers (or
have Achilli, Brucato, and Heinig finally received their Ritalin?)
| xe...@teleport.com | cam#9309026
> Listowner: Fading Suns, Trinity and Aberrant
> "Balance is nothing, story is everything. Obey your ST."
Good line. Seems to sum up the WW mentality perfectly.
dch...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu
Hm. I am torn between amusing myself by responding to your pedantic
diatribe in the same vitriolic fashion, or simply writing you off as a
pathetic lout bereft of imagination and creativity. Quite honestly, you're
just not worth the effort the former would require.
Conclusion: No, Aberrant is NOT perfect. Still, it's fun UNLESS you're
unable to think for yourself and make some decisions of your own.
-D
(I nonconsent to your existence. Does it work?)
Ted Martin
strongest DC charachters, and in fact outdoes many at their own talent:
stronger than and outfights thor, outruns flash, etc) has an energy limit,
which he ran dry fighting doomsday...
--
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version: 3.1
GIT ds+ s- a--- C++++ UL+ P+ L+ E W++ N+++ K++ w+ O M+ V PS PE++ Y++ PGP t++
5+ X++ R R* tv b++++ DI++++ D++ G++ e e*h- r++ x++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
cannon <can...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7tbpnt$3s5$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
dch...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu
p 255, about the middle of the first column - "These recovery times don't
take into account quantum powers. The systems described for the
Regeneration enhancement or the Healing power take precedence over these
systems."
Heck, and over at the top of the first column on 254, too: "Against
baselines, aggravated damage is PERMANENT: the wounds never heal. Novas
may heal aggravated damage, but they get no multiplier for their
metabolisms; they heal aggravated damage no faster than a baseline human
heals lethal damage."
So, while for example Regeneration as a power doesn't heal aggravated
damage at an increased rate, a nova CAN heal aggravated damage.
SteveC
Marizhavashti Kali wrote (in response to dch...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu )
>>
>> I haven't noticed anything major. The game is playable as it is - what's
>> more, it's FUN. :)
>
>You don't understand - Erik's on a crusade. Any evidence you present
>which does not agree with his assumptions will be tossed out or flamed.
>
I must also point out at this point that you also have an agenda as well.
The truth (as in most cases) lies between the extremes.
Aberrant does indeed have many good points. The power system seems
well thought out and reflects the genre well. Some specific problems
Aberrant has include:
it includes the WW house system. Even with the modifications from
Trinity there are still problems (just ask anyone who has issues with
a dicepool system, but then we just had that thread again last month).
It has a system that is tied into the game's background. With WW that
is something to be expected, but it will instantly bother anyone who is
attempting to use Aberrant as a "generic" supers system.
The layout of the powers and rules is anything but easy to follow. It
also has both universal rule mechanics and plenty of powers that are
exceptions to those rules.
The rules make assumptions that make certain types of characters
much more effective than others. Again, this comes from the fact
that the game mechanics are tied into the rules, but this will also
be a problem for anyone who attempts to use Aberrant as a "generic"
hero system.
Important areas of the rules are missing, as are the important NPCs
(even in the supplements, if I am to believe MTR, who I tend to trust
in these matters). As long as the BBB of the HERO system exists,
the excuse "it will be in a supplement!" doesn't carry much weight
with me.
I further found Aberrant to be overly complicated (and this is coming
from someone who plays HERO). I doubt that it will bring new players
to RPGs in the way that earlier WW products did.
I understand that Aberrant is not intended to be a generic system, but
when it was announced, many folks over on RGFSH thought it might
at last be a system to replace HERO as the defining supers RPG.
Its not going to be that.
At the same time, there is a lot to like about Aberrant. If you like the
world and its underlying themes, its a good buy, and certainly a good
_value_ for the money.
>--
>Deird'Re M. Brooks | xe...@teleport.com | cam#9309026
>Listowner: Fading Suns, Trinity and Aberrant
>"Balance is nothing, story is everything. Obey your ST."
>http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | http://www.telelists.com
--Steve C.
spc...@att.net
NOTE: remove NOSPAM to reply to this message
Erik Stutzman
You seem to misunderstand me so I'll write it again. I asked if QUANTUM
POWERS can fix aggravated damage. Page 161 states Regeneration CAN'T,
page 254 states Regeneration and Healing CAN.
Can novas with Regeneration pay triple the cost and repair aggravated
damage quickly or not? I can make up my own answer, I just wish the
writers could have made up their minds.
Of course, this is a game with a phantom 'Psychic Link' power that
exists on the chart on page 289 but doesn't exist anywhere else, so I
guess a few contradictory rules slipping through shouldn't surprise me.
Erik Stutzman
<dch...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu> wrote in message
news:7teipd$93m$1...@news.fsu.edu...
> Erik Stutzman (sstu...@skyenet.net) wrote:
>
> Hm. I am torn between amusing myself by responding to your pedantic
> diatribe in the same vitriolic fashion, or simply writing you off as a
> pathetic lout bereft of imagination and creativity. Quite honestly, you're
> just not worth the effort the former would require.
I have no imagination or creativity because... I foolishly expected Aberrant
to have been playtested by people who aren't WW writers?
>
> Conclusion: No, Aberrant is NOT perfect. Still, it's fun UNLESS you're
> unable to think for yourself and make some decisions of your own.
>
> -D
Did I say it wasn't fun? Did I say it has no good points? I thought I was
pointing out some of its flaws after reading another "BUY IT NOW" message
that explained less about the game than I did, but I am a moron after all.
You're right, though. I'm clearly an idiot for wanting a set of rules that
don't contradict themselves. Damn me for thinking WW could accomplish such a
herculean task!
BTW I can make my own decisions quite easily (like not playing Aberrant). I
just wish the writers could as well. Again, do quantum powers heal
aggravated damage? I guess the writers couldn't decide.
It's too bad you won't be reading this, but I hope you someday learn that
flawed rules aren't necessary more fun than rules that work.
Marizhavashti Kali
SteveC wrote:
>
> I must also point out at this point that you also have an agenda as well.
> The truth (as in most cases) lies between the extremes.
The truth may lie between extremes, but I hesitate to refer to my
position as an "extreme." Given that my position in this case is that
Erik is overly harsh for no real personal gain (unless he enjoys being
indignant).
> it includes the WW house system. Even with the modifications from
> Trinity there are still problems (just ask anyone who has issues with
> a dicepool system, but then we just had that thread again last month).
And isn't a problem for those who don't. Honestly, you could say that
any and every RPG has a problematic system, not because it's
problematic, but because someone's bound to hate it, dislike it, or want
to tweak it.
> It has a system that is tied into the game's background. With WW that
> is something to be expected, but it will instantly bother anyone who is
> attempting to use Aberrant as a "generic" supers system.
Of course, in Aberrant's case, it isn't difficult to make it more
generic.
> Important areas of the rules are missing, as are the important NPCs
> (even in the supplements, if I am to believe MTR, who I tend to trust
> in these matters). As long as the BBB of the HERO system exists,
> the excuse "it will be in a supplement!" doesn't carry much weight
> with me.
Which important areas of the rules? And do you realize that you only
have so much space allocated to a book?
> I further found Aberrant to be overly complicated (and this is coming
> from someone who plays HERO). I doubt that it will bring new players
> to RPGs in the way that earlier WW products did.
This is anecdotal. For everyone who's described Aberrant as
"complicated", I know two or more who describe it as "easy to learn."
I suspect Aberrant has hooks which (if exploited) can certainly bring
new players to RPGs.
> I understand that Aberrant is not intended to be a generic system, but
> when it was announced, many folks over on RGFSH thought it might
> at last be a system to replace HERO as the defining supers RPG.
> Its not going to be that.
It never tried to be that, so this isn't really a failing.
> At the same time, there is a lot to like about Aberrant. If you like the
> world and its underlying themes, its a good buy, and certainly a good
> _value_ for the money.
Absolutely.
My issue is with Erik's apparent assumption that there is something
wrong with you if you like Aberrant. he's not presenting his problems
with the rules as just problems, but as FATAL FLAWS WHICH WILL DESTROY
ALL ENJOYMENT OF THE GAME. Some of them aren't even flaws, but come from
a lack of careful reading.
James Kiley
>I have no imagination or creativity because... I foolishly expected Aberrant
>to have been playtested by people who aren't WW writers?
Aberrant was extensively playtested by people who aren't WW writers.
jk
Ethan Skemp
>
> In article <37FA62B7...@teleport.com>,
> Marizhavashti Kali <xe...@teleport.com> wrote:
> > You don't understand - Erik's on a crusade. Any evidence you present
> > which does not agree with his assumptions will be tossed out or
> flamed.
> Which means I am now in the esteemed company of most WW developers (or
> have Achilli, Brucato, and Heinig finally received their Ritalin?)
Hey! I feel neglected.
Ethan Skemp
WWGS
White Crow
> It has a system that is tied into the game's background. With WW that
> is something to be expected, but it will instantly bother anyone who is
> attempting to use Aberrant as a "generic" supers system.
Ok, I've not really looked at Aberrant yet (although my husband loves
Trinity, so we may be looking at the other soon enough), but from what
little I know of WW games, they aren't ever meant to be "generic" systems.
Sure you can tweak them to be such if you like the system baseline, but
they aren't marketing Aberrant as a generic supers game. It's a supers
game with a set world, like all other WW games. Trinity isn't just scifi,
it's scifi with a set setting.
> Important areas of the rules are missing, as are the important NPCs
> (even in the supplements, if I am to believe MTR, who I tend to trust
> in these matters). As long as the BBB of the HERO system exists,
> the excuse "it will be in a supplement!" doesn't carry much weight
> with me.
I don't much like the "it's in a supplement" mentality for any game
system, especially when it's info I'd like to have up front. Too many
game designers forget the fact that supplements are supposed to
supplement, not be necessary volumes.
> I further found Aberrant to be overly complicated (and this is coming
> from someone who plays HERO). I doubt that it will bring new players
> to RPGs in the way that earlier WW products did.
Is that it's goal? To bring new players in?
> I understand that Aberrant is not intended to be a generic system, but
> when it was announced, many folks over on RGFSH thought it might
> at last be a system to replace HERO as the defining supers RPG.
> Its not going to be that.
I doubt it was meant to be that. Although I have a suspicion that Hero
fans will never move to anything else as the "defining" supers game.
Although I *never* liked Champions as a system, myself. Although from
discussions here and on the fudge-l, I doubt anyone in the world would
want a superhero system the way I would design it. Sigh.
> At the same time, there is a lot to like about Aberrant. If you like the
> world and its underlying themes, its a good buy, and certainly a good
> _value_ for the money.
And I think this is the key point. Does the game world appeal enough to
you that you want to use that as a baseline?
--
The White Crow
FUDGE Deryni and more: http://www.io.com/~whytcrow/rpg.html
"I hope I never do anything without due thought, even if the thought sometimes
has to shift its feet pretty briskly to keep up with the deed." -- Cadfael
"You must have been very wicked, for your God has sent me to punish you
for your sins." -- Ghenghis Khan
Scott A. Taylor
<sstu...@skyenet.net> wrote:
> In article <37FA62B7...@teleport.com>,
> Marizhavashti Kali <xe...@teleport.com> wrote:
> > dch...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu wrote:
> > >
> > > I haven't noticed anything major. The game is playable as it is -
> what's
> > > more, it's FUN. :)
> >
> > You don't understand - Erik's on a crusade. Any evidence you present
> > which does not agree with his assumptions will be tossed out or
> flamed.
> Which means I am now in the esteemed company of most WW developers (or
> have Achilli, Brucato, and Heinig finally received their Ritalin?)
> Good line. Seems to sum up the WW mentality perfectly.
Goodbye.
*plonk*
--
Scott Taylor
Freelancer for Hire
Have Powerbook, Will Travel
New E-Mail: izzy...@frontiernet.net
Bill Dowling
>
> Why do Mega-Attribute descriptions fail to match the actual abilities?
> (Nova X has Mega-Stamina 5, giving him a soak of 10 bashing, 5 lethal.
> According to the description missiles bounce off his chest. Yeah right.)
>
that's all...
Bill Dowling
<sstu...@skyenet.net> wrote:
>> : Why does a nova with 4 levels of Growth (making said nova roughly 80-
>> : 100 feet tall) only get 4 extra health levels and why do opponents only
>> : get two extra dice to hit him? How hard is it to hit something that
>> : tall?
>>
>> Exactly two dice easier.
>
> So hitting a traffic sign is exactly two dice harder than hitting a
> building? Okay...
>
This isn't as bad as it sounds. If I want to shoot a traffic sign with a
pistol when neither of us is moving, I'm going to have a good chance of
hitting it. Not much worse than hitting a building.
For a character with a Dex of 1 and a Firearms of 0, he has a 40% chance of
hitting a traffic sign. He has a 78.4% chance of hitting the guy with 4
levels of growth.
For a character with a Dex of 1 and a Firearms of 1, he has a 64% chance of
hitting a traffic sign. He has an 87% chance of hitting the guy with 4
levels of growth.
That doesn't sound too off to me.
Justin Achilli
<sstu...@skyenet.net> wrote:
> In article <37FA62B7...@teleport.com>,
> Marizhavashti Kali <xe...@teleport.com> wrote:
>> You don't understand - Erik's on a crusade. Any evidence you present
>> which does not agree with his assumptions will be tossed out or
>> flamed.
> Which means I am now in the esteemed company of most WW developers (or
> have Achilli, Brucato, and Heinig finally received their Ritalin?)
Don't drag me into this episode of the Stutzman Snitfest. Throw your own fit
and wake me when your diatribe involves Vampire again. Until then, continue
letting us know what a genius you are and how stupid everyone else is with
regard to Aberrant, if only to stay on topic.
Regards,
Justin
--
[Justin R. Achilli]
[Vampire: The Masquerade Developer]
[White Wolf Game Studio]
[jach...@white-wolf.com - www.white-wolf.com]
"It doesn't matter what you think!"
-- The Rock
Bruce, The Ghost Who Writes
And in fact by people who don't like White Wolf games in general.
Jason Corley
: > At the same time, there is a lot to like about Aberrant. If you like the
: > world and its underlying themes, its a good buy, and certainly a good
: > _value_ for the money.
: And I think this is the key point. Does the game world appeal enough to
: you that you want to use that as a baseline?
Right. I didn't have trouble with the rules (contradictions don't bug me
so much, chiefly because I have essentially given up on finding a game
supplement without them). In fact, there were a lot of very nice things
done with the rules that a lot of other supers games have stumbled over:
mega-attributes work comparatively smoothly, as do
extremely-extremely-skilled folks a la Batman or Captain Everything
(nobody remembers him.) By juking around the number of nova points you
can go from little-supers all the way up to Silver Surfer-grade cosmic
drama.
But I just didn't like the setting. It looked incredibly dull. There were
a few other things about it that bothered me. There were no rules for
playing ordinary people or suggestions on how to incorporate them into the
game as player characters. (You had to just truncate the character
creation process and go with that.) The "campaign examples" (yes, people
do read those) were uninspiring. The factions were less than uninspiring.
The NPCs were worthless. I didn't even feel inspired (as I did when faced
with Trinity's worthless NPCs) to write fanfic and campaign materials in
which their days are completely ruined by jeering hyperactive
Corley-characters bent on destroying any fun which other people might have
had with them. I guess that's the bottom line. I read the setting and
didn't want to make a character. I wanted to put the book back on the
shelf and go and buy GURPS Martial Arts, which I did. Trinity's setting
made me write about twenty characters right off the bat. Vampire's
setting (god, way back in high school) made me come up with at least ten.
Aberrant gave me an excuse to buy something cheaper.
--
"Dullness marked the beginning of our tale, dullness marked the thread of
it, and dullness more than permeates it's end altogether we've all had a
dern dull time of it, ain't we? Yezza." ----Geo. Herriman
Jason D. Corley | ICQ 41199011 | le...@aeonsociety.org
Anna Simpson
<bill.d...@ibm.net> told the tale thusly:
>In article <7tdgvu$bsd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com> , Erik Stutzman
>>
>> Why do Mega-Attribute descriptions fail to match the actual abilities?
>> (Nova X has Mega-Stamina 5, giving him a soak of 10 bashing, 5 lethal.
>> According to the description missiles bounce off his chest. Yeah right.)
>>
>The missiles WILL bounce off his chest. They just kill him in the process,
>that's all...
That is a bizarre yet strangely appealling image. Hmm...a game
of superheros with great sounding but useless super powers may be
called for.
love
Anna.
*************************** Anna Simpson ****************************
Lords and ladies lie in stone, hand in hand from long ago,
Though their hands are cold, they'll love forever.
******************* http://www.moglit.demon.co.uk *******************
John Peralta
pool than the 30 or 40 points on the character sheet. What's more how many
times has Superman lost a fight due to exhaustion?
Quantum points also limit the amount of times a character can perform
certain tasks. For example Quantum bolt. When I think of quantum bolt I
think of Cyclops from the X-Men. Cyclops has no limitation to the amount of
times he can use his ability. How does one account for that?
Perhaps Superman and Cyclops are not the best examples. I've had a bitch of
a time converting some of my favorite characters. I'd like to see what
others have come up with. As it is the only one I have completed so far is
Fairchild from Gen 13. And she was fairly strait forward. Try Backlash (my
favorite comic book character). It's not so easy.
All of this might be academic though. Recently I read a series of Gen 13
comic books and found many of the powers were near impossible to mimic
without some liberal role-playing from the DM. For example there is one
point where Grunge is Quantum bolted by someone from Stormwatch and the
blast goes right through him. It does so because he was at the time
emulating the density of sand which was in his shoe. But I'm splitting
hairs. Even Champions would have a easy time getting every single comic book
character perfectly. And in the end what is a good Role-playing session
without a healthy dose of imagination to oil the gears that are the rules.
Again I welcome your interpretations and adaptations of characters if you
have them. I want to know what others are doing.
John Peralta
Ted Martin <em...@virginia.edu> wrote in message
> On the energy pool thing, remember even superman, who is one of the
> strongest DC charachters, and in fact outdoes many at their own talent:
> stronger than and outfights thor, outruns flash, etc) has an energy limit,
> which he ran dry fighting doomsday...
Frank T. Sronce
>
> In fact, there were a lot of very nice things
> done with the rules that a lot of other supers games have stumbled over:
> mega-attributes work comparatively smoothly, as do
> extremely-extremely-skilled folks a la Batman or Captain Everything
> (nobody remembers him.)
That's not the Captain Everything out of Normalman, is it? He was
hardly an extremely skilled character... in fact, he was pretty much the
epitome of the "clueless idiot with awesome cosmic powers." :-)
Kiz
-for those unfamiliar with Normalman, ol' Cap's power was to negate the
laws of physics at will...
(re)flex
Erik Stutzman wrote in message <37fae...@news.oaktree.net>...
>How can they be 'exact duplicates' if they are all stupider, uglier,
>clumsier, weaker, less hardy, less perceptive, more slow-witted, less
>charming, and less persuasive than the host? Not to mention their less than
>exact Abilites and powers..
The clones should at least look like the person they are cloning. I agree to
that extent. Otherwise when fighting multiple man, always aim for the
good-looking one. Why the clones would all develop spontaneous chronic acne,
I can't really fathom. I can understand that the reason for the precipitous
drop in all other stats is simply balance, and so I can bend a bit to
justify it. But superficially, at least, all the clones should look
identical, even if none are quite as CAPABLE as the real McCoy.
Jason Corley
: Jason Corley wrote:
: >
: > In fact, there were a lot of very nice things
: > done with the rules that a lot of other supers games have stumbled over:
: > mega-attributes work comparatively smoothly, as do
: > extremely-extremely-skilled folks a la Batman or Captain Everything
: > (nobody remembers him.)
: That's not the Captain Everything out of Normalman, is it? He was
: hardly an extremely skilled character... in fact, he was pretty much the
: epitome of the "clueless idiot with awesome cosmic powers." :-)
Oh, wait, maybe I'm thinking of someone else. He had an all-primary-colors
uniform and his power was "I can do that better than anyone else". His
secret identity was a stand-up comic.
Aaron Peori
>
> Good point Ted. The problem I'm having is that Superman has a much larger
> pool than the 30 or 40 points on the character sheet. What's more how many
> times has Superman lost a fight due to exhaustion?
> Quantum points also limit the amount of times a character can perform
> certain tasks. For example Quantum bolt. When I think of quantum bolt I
> think of Cyclops from the X-Men. Cyclops has no limitation to the amount of
> times he can use his ability. How does one account for that?
By the "Reduced Cost" extra twice, making the Quantum Bolt a
level 4 Power that costs no Quantum to use. Costs 7 Nova
Points per level at Level 4 (if the trend holds).
Also give him the Aberration "Always On" for the bolt (but a
tainted point or four) but it can be controlled by ruby
quartz across his eyes and also the Aberration "Doesn't
effect my brother"
> For example there is one
> point where Grunge is Quantum bolted by someone from Stormwatch and
> the blast goes right through him. It does so because he was at the
> time emulating the density of sand which was in his shoe. But I'm
> splitting hairs.
Coouldn't be simpler. Matter Chameleon, Level 5. Four of
which (in this case) were delegated to Density Decrease.
--------------
Epsilon
Aaron Peori
> Trinity's setting
> made me write about twenty characters right off the bat. Vampire's
> setting (god, way back in high school) made me come up with at least
> ten. Aberrant gave me an excuse to buy something cheaper.
And for me it was the exact opposite. I loved the setting,
the concepts and the various factions. I liked the concept
of a "realistic" superhero game. That is, no supervillians,
no every person has a different power source, no any of the
usual foibles of the genre. Just a nice, easy to run system
with a basis for all the powers you could ever want to
create and use.
-----------
Epsilon
Taint, I felt, needed some reworking for the setting however
Aaron Peori
> > : Can powers heal aggravated damage?
> >
> > Yes, though it isn't stated specifically - See Healing, p. 201: double
> > quantum and a willpower point.
>
> Actually it states specifically that they can't (in the Regeneration
> description) and it states that they can (when discussing agg damage).
Pg 161: "Regeneration does not heal Aggravated Damage"
Pg 201: "Healing can even regenerate severed limbs or ruined
organs, but to do so costs double qunatum and a Willpower
point."
Here it is not specifically stated that it heals Aggravated
damage but you can read it as that. Since it does NOT in the
description of the power say that Healing can NOT regenerate
Agg damage one can assume it can.
Pg 254: "Against baselines, aggravated damage is permanent:
the wounds never heal. Novas may heal aggravated damage, but
they get no multiplier for their metabolisms; they heal
aggravated damage no faster than a baseline heals lethal
damage."
Pg 255: "These recovery times don't take into account
qunatum powers. The system described for the Regeneration
enhancement or the Healing power take precedence over these
systems."
No, applying some logic here we figure out that Nova's heal
aggravated damage slowly, that the Regeneration Enhancement
does not improve this speed and that Healing (might) be able
to. Since Regeneration does not replace but -supplements-
the existing healing rules by allowing you to heal damage by
spending Quantum Points one can assume a character with it
will still heal, just not any faster.
> >
> > : Do Clones have the same stats or do those stats drop like falling rocks?
> >
> > Stats drop, though not 'like falling rocks'.
>
> Really? Duplicator Man has impressive but not peak Atts (let's say 3-4 in
> each). With two clones he's looking at 'clones' with Attributes of 1. I find
> it bizarre that a clone with 'identical Attributes' is uglier, stupider,
> clumsier, and weaker than the nova.
Perhaps because the Clone ability isn't meant to make
powerful characters like that. The Clone ability creates
utterly seperate figures. More than likely the character you
want to create with Duplicator Man are Quantum Constructs.
Still, the system doesn't let you exactly duplicate that
ability. So? It isn't -meant- to.
> > : Are Mega-Attributes separate from Attrbiutes (the Str 1, Mega-Str 1
> > : nova) or they connected (the Mitoids, Growth and Density powers)?
> >
> > They're separate but there is a connection between them. A Str 1, Mega-Str
> > 1 nova will be less powerful than a Str 4, Mega-Str 1 nova.
>
> I guess I just should just accept the idea that the weakling who lifts cars
> and the bodybuilder who lifts cars don't have the same strength...
The difference being that Character A (with Str 1/Mega 1)
can lift a maximum of 1100 kg (assuming Might 0) and
Character B (with Str 4/Mega 1) can lift a maximum of 1400
kg (assuming Might 0). Character A may simply be
superhumanly strong despite how big he actually is. This is
common in comic books. You can not tell me Fairchild has the
kind of muscle tone you would expect of a proffesional
weightlifter.
> > : What happens when a nova uses Warp to open a portal to space (or the
> > : bottom of an ocean, or the mantle of the Earth)?
> >
> > He can look through and see it. Or he can step through and hope he
> > survives.
>
> What I mean is: the bottom of oceans has a HELL of a lot of pressure
> (presumably the earth's mantle does as well). Shouldn't water/magma come
> shooting out of the warp point? Shouldn't the atmosphere be sucked into the
> warp that's opened to space?
Presumably the same method keeps the ocean from rushing in
and the air from rushing out that keeps the Nova from
igniting a nuclear reaction if the teleport into -air-.
Presumably the teleport is something like a star trek
transporter that deconstructs things on one end and
reconstructs them on the other from existing Quantum forces.
Perhaps stepping into a Warp initiates that process on
anyone and the transition is so instant you can't tell the
difference.
> > : Why aren't there any super-tech rules in the book, considering a nova
> > : could have Mega-Intelligence and build such tech?
> >
> > This will be covered in an upcoming book.
Supertech is easy to handle. By the Trinity Technology
Manual. Assume Nova's could build stuff like that now
(Hardtech -and- Biotech).
> > : Why are power effects based on with dice pool successes (something
> > : which almost guarantees no player will get more than one level of most
> > : powers since Mega-Atts give MANY more successes)?
> >
> > If you roll successes with them. Mega-Attributes also cost more than
> > low-level powers, and at higher-level powers (especially the Mastery
> > fields) you get a 'bonus' ability with each level.
>
> If I want a telepath, I can spend 5 nova points to get Telepathy with the
> Surreptitious Extra. More level of Telepathy cost 5 point each (or a lot
> more XP). 5 levels of Mega-Perception cost 15 points and they give me 15
> possible successes (compared to the 3 I would get from Telepathy). If my
> nova doesn't have Mastery Fields then Mega-Atts seem a hell of a lot better
> than multiple levels of Level 2 powers.
In many cases you want Range (like with Telekinesis). Sure
you get more raw power out of Mega-Attributes but you don't
get the Range bonuses. In some cases (such as Quantum Bolt)
its damage. In other cases (such as Technique powers) its
multiple Techniques.
Also, don't forget the following rule:
You must purchase up your Quantum to a level equal to the
Level of the Mega-Attribute minus one. The same limit does
not apply to powers except that you must have the proper
Quantum Minimum. Also... you can only buy five levels of
Mega-Attribute. Buying further levels of Telepathy increases
your power. Who is a better Telepath, one with Mega-Per 5
and Telepathy 1 or one with Mega-Per 5 and Telepathy 5?
Simple answer ne. And heck, if you want to buy up dots of
Mega-Attributes you go ahead and do so. There's no rule
against it and their is nothing stopping you and hey, it's
smart so why not?
> > : Why do Mega-Attribute descriptions fail to match the actual abilities?
Dramatic license. A better quible is why Mega-Strength
trumps Mega-Stanima. Assuming two novas with all else being
equal but one has Mega-Str 5 and the other has Mega-Sta 5
the first will win. Why? 25 Automatic success of bashing
damage that's why. Even at full possible Soak (10) that's
still 15 automatic bashing dice and while the character has
three extra Bruised Health levels he is still down past
Incapacitated already (in fact, he is almost dead). Now,
even with the resilency Enhancement this is only soak 15
which is still not enough to keep the Nova from being KO'd.
And if we assume that Nova has Resilency we can asusme the
other has Crush and does 25 LETHAL health levels (which the
poor Mega-Sta nova can only soak 8 of). That seems unfair to
me. Why should I have to buy Armor to compensate for what I
should already have from Mega-Stanima.
> > : Why does a nova with 4 levels of Growth (making said nova roughly 80-
> > : 100 feet tall) only get 4 extra health levels and why do opponents only
> > : get two extra dice to hit him? How hard is it to hit something that
> > : tall?
> >
> > Exactly two dice easier.
>
> So hitting a traffic sign is exactly two dice harder than hitting a
> building? Okay...
Walk up to a traffic sign and swing your fist at it. Walk up
to a building and swing your fist at it. How much harder was
it to hit one then the other?
--------------
Epsilon
Aaron Peori
Appearance is more than just looks. It's how one carries
oneself and other factors as well. Thus two people can look
exactly the same yet one would be less handsome then the
other. This is the case in several twins I know.
--------------
Epsilon
Marizhavashti Kali
Aaron Peori wrote:
>
> And for me it was the exact opposite. I loved the setting,
> the concepts and the various factions. I liked the concept
> of a "realistic" superhero game. That is, no supervillians,
> no every person has a different power source, no any of the
> usual foibles of the genre. Just a nice, easy to run system
> with a basis for all the powers you could ever want to
> create and use.
My problem isn't that people dislike the setting (I don't get on
Corley's case, for example, because he clearly doesn't look for the same
things in games that I do, and I don't expect his reactions to mirror
mine), but that some of the people who dislike the setting are on a holy
crusade to make everyone dislike the setting. Or the rules.
Interchangeable, really.
Sidhain
> mine), but that some of the people who dislike the setting are on a holy
> crusade to make everyone dislike the setting. Or the rules.
> Interchangeable, really.
>
Yes but if the system or setting is seriously flawed and or derivitave then
it's best that they share with us why they think so then for us to discern
for ourselves whether it's worth the money for a system/setting.
If someone doesn't voice "Hey this is wrong because...." then that's all and
well and good but we'd all still be playing gold box D&D.
Changes take input and that input doesn't come on from on high.
White wolf has flaws, their system and their settings--whether you admit
that or not, doesn't change the fact that FLAWS exist. And a Flaw is "a
defect that mars the perfection of something" well White Wolf's products
aren't flawless, they aren't perfect.This is not just someone's opinion, I
can pick up any WW book and find numerous flaws, errors in editing, and
numerous other things.
Reading through the Aberrant book I found a few, and chose not to buy it.
I might reconsider that ,but I know that no product is flawless
But someone trying to point out FLAWS in a setting or in a system isn't
necessarily on a crusade to undo this company or that company, but maybe
just maybe to get those things FIXED. Rather than mindlessly repeating the
party byline "All is well, All is fine there are no flaws" try thinking for
yourselves and maybe be a discerning customer who buys and supports better
QUALITY products--Maybe White Wolf will get a clue not to create a shitty
first edition, they need to learn not to scrap all the good things they
have done with laterproducts, and try and evolve instead of backsliding and
producing products that make them look amatuerish. Vampire Third Edition had
improvements, Improvements which were not found in Aberrant? WHY?
Because WW editors/writers were stupid? lazy? If they weren't why is
Aberrant have flaws that were rectified in Vampire 3rd?
Marizhavashti Kali
Sidhain wrote:
>
> Yes but if the system or setting is seriously flawed and or derivitave then
> it's best that they share with us why they think so then for us to discern
> for ourselves whether it's worth the money for a system/setting.
Hmm...yes, and if Erik's posts approached anything like a quality
review, with useful criticism, I suppose I'd take it differently.
As it is, when he pointed out some perceived flaws and it was explained
where the error in perception was (he criticized the game for flaws it
didn't have, in this case), he ignored the responses and continued to
repeat himself.
> If someone doesn't voice "Hey this is wrong because...." then that's all and
> well and good but we'd all still be playing gold box D&D.
I think there's a misconception that I'm totally against anyone
criticizing Aberrant.
> Changes take input and that input doesn't come on from on high.
> White wolf has flaws, their system and their settings--whether you admit
> that or not, doesn't change the fact that FLAWS exist. And a Flaw is "a
> defect that mars the perfection of something" well White Wolf's products
> aren't flawless, they aren't perfect.This is not just someone's opinion, I
> can pick up any WW book and find numerous flaws, errors in editing, and
> numerous other things.
Although the editing has precious little to do with the actual creation
process. It's a polish thing, and some editors will change phrasing and
grammar in ways that I don't agree with.
I mean, I can pick up a book from just about any publisher out there,
and find numerous flaws, errors in editing and "numerous other things."
Some of this stuff just isn't as criminally negligent as people will
present it. That can't be helped.
> Reading through the Aberrant book I found a few, and chose not to buy it.
> I might reconsider that ,but I know that no product is flawless
Exactly.
I still think you would have enjoyed it more than Brave New World (based
on your reaction). But you may like Hero 5th even more than that, so
what can I say. :-)
> But someone trying to point out FLAWS in a setting or in a system isn't
> necessarily on a crusade to undo this company or that company, but maybe
> just maybe to get those things FIXED. Rather than mindlessly repeating the
Except that over half the things Erik's pointed out as flaws come from
misreadings on his part, as far as I can tell. Half of them are
ambiguously written or outright flawed, and I'll grant that. But much of
it seems to come more from his pet axe to grind than from any actual
reading of the book.
> party byline "All is well, All is fine there are no flaws" try thinking for
> yourselves and maybe be a discerning customer who buys and supports better
> QUALITY products--Maybe White Wolf will get a clue not to create a shitty
> first edition, they need to learn not to scrap all the good things they
You mean like Trinity, Vampire: The Dark Ages or Mage: The Sorcerer's
Crusade? Wraith: The Great War?
White Wolf has produced several quality first editions which have shown
no need for a second edition.
Some of the errors in Aberrant somehow slipped through the cracks - I do
not know why, since they were discussed during playtest and included in
reports.
Some of the errors were grammatical, and no one among the playtesters
commented (to my knowledge) and they somehow got past the editor.
Some of the errors appeared after playtest, and I have no idea where
they came from.
Finally, some people may find rules flawed, and others may not - this
falls purely into a matter of taste, as I haven't seen a consistent
criticism of these elements. Some people like them, some don't. I'm not
going to tell them they have to like those elements (I've been offering
suggestions on the Aberrant list on how to get around these issues, and
they've generated useful threads, IMO).
> have done with laterproducts, and try and evolve instead of backsliding and
> producing products that make them look amatuerish. Vampire Third Edition had
> improvements, Improvements which were not found in Aberrant? WHY?
> Because WW editors/writers were stupid? lazy? If they weren't why is
> Aberrant have flaws that were rectified in Vampire 3rd?
First, I'd suggest you read the credits page - you'll note that the
developer, the writers, editor and layout were likely done by different
people (some crossover, but not a lot).
I can guarantee that any of the errors you see in Aberrant don't come
from lazy writers or developers.
What really bothers me most about this thread is that if someone says
positive things about the game, then a reprimand and correction and
litany of HORRIBLE FATAL FLAWS is directly in order, but if someone
rebuts the list of alleged flaws, then this is a terrible thing?
Erik Stutzman
Aaron Peori <tz...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:37FBFBC0...@ns.sympatico.ca...
Let me get this straight: Assuming I don't want a lot of Taint, I spend
15-25 nova points (depending on how I spend my freebies) for the ability to
create pathetic versions of my PC? With above-average stats (surely not
unreasonable for a nova) I can't make more than 1-2 clones or their stats
are equal to
or worse than any average Joe I meet. What's the point? They can't be used
as decoys, they don't look like my PC. They're useless in combat, their
stats/skills are pathetic. They can help clean the house, but Super-speed
lets the PC do that and more.
I wanted a create a guy who could duplicate himself but with the power in
the book I end up with moronic 'clones' that can't tie their shoes.
What is the purpose of the Clone power as written? I don't mean to be
argumentative, I just don't see what the writers were trying to accomplish
with the power.
>
> > > : Are Mega-Attributes separate from Attrbiutes (the Str 1, Mega-Str 1
> > > : nova) or they connected (the Mitoids, Growth and Density powers)?
> > >
> > > They're separate but there is a connection between them. A Str 1,
Mega-Str
> > > 1 nova will be less powerful than a Str 4, Mega-Str 1 nova.
> >
> > I guess I just should just accept the idea that the weakling who lifts
cars
> > and the bodybuilder who lifts cars don't have the same strength...
>
> The difference being that Character A (with Str 1/Mega 1)
> can lift a maximum of 1100 kg (assuming Might 0) and
> Character B (with Str 4/Mega 1) can lift a maximum of 1400
> kg (assuming Might 0). Character A may simply be
> superhumanly strong despite how big he actually is. This is
> common in comic books. You can not tell me Fairchild has the
> kind of muscle tone you would expect of a proffesional
> weightlifter.
I understand the difference (and I was just being obnoxious there), but I
still don't know if the Attribute/Mega-Attribute levels are supposed to be
connected. If Mitoids are in a low-gravity field does their Strength jump to
Mega 2? For that matter, would a baseline with 5 Strength get Mega 1 in a
low-grav field?
If I use Aberrant rules in Trinity would characters on Luna get Mega
Strength? Would Biokinetics that shift their Attributes receive Megas? To me
the logical answers are no but there seems to be precedent in Aberrant for
letting baselines/neutrals enter nova territory when it comes to Megas.
>
>
> > > : What happens when a nova uses Warp to open a portal to space (or the
> > > : bottom of an ocean, or the mantle of the Earth)?
> > >
> > > He can look through and see it. Or he can step through and hope he
> > > survives.
> >
> > What I mean is: the bottom of oceans has a HELL of a lot of pressure
> > (presumably the earth's mantle does as well). Shouldn't water/magma come
> > shooting out of the warp point? Shouldn't the atmosphere be sucked into
the
> > warp that's opened to space?
>
> Presumably the same method keeps the ocean from rushing in
> and the air from rushing out that keeps the Nova from
> igniting a nuclear reaction if the teleport into -air-.
> Presumably the teleport is something like a star trek
> transporter that deconstructs things on one end and
> reconstructs them on the other from existing Quantum forces.
> Perhaps stepping into a Warp initiates that process on
> anyone and the transition is so instant you can't tell the
> difference.
That's more information (and a better idea) than the book gave me. From what
I've read the developer hasn't answered any questions about Warp, so maybe
it's supposed to be one of those great mysteries (like Slider's killer).
>
>
>
> > > : Why aren't there any super-tech rules in the book, considering a
nova
> > > : could have Mega-Intelligence and build such tech?
> > >
> > > This will be covered in an upcoming book.
>
> Supertech is easy to handle. By the Trinity Technology
> Manual. Assume Nova's could build stuff like that now
> (Hardtech -and- Biotech).
I just think it's strange that the book mentions some novas building
super-tech yet they don't cover it. I have the Trinity tech book and would
probably use it for inspiration, I just figured a look at tech would fit
into the main book. Champions had a Gadget Pool to cover such things, does
Aberrant have any sort of limit on the Tech genius? I suppose technically
the gadgeteer could work around the clock, especially since s/he only needs
Megas (Adaptability, Engineering Prodigy, maybe Eidetic Memory and Lightning
Calculator).
Utopia has some control over what hits the market but it can't control
everything. A nova Tech wizard could completely change the world with
something s/he whipped up overnight and the book doesn't mention anything on
it.
>
> > > : Why are power effects based on with dice pool successes (something
> > > : which almost guarantees no player will get more than one level of
most
> > > : powers since Mega-Atts give MANY more successes)?
> > >
> > > If you roll successes with them. Mega-Attributes also cost more than
> > > low-level powers, and at higher-level powers (especially the Mastery
> > > fields) you get a 'bonus' ability with each level.
> >
> > If I want a telepath, I can spend 5 nova points to get Telepathy with
the
> > Surreptitious Extra. More level of Telepathy cost 5 point each (or a lot
> > more XP). 5 levels of Mega-Perception cost 15 points and they give me 15
> > possible successes (compared to the 3 I would get from Telepathy). If my
> > nova doesn't have Mastery Fields then Mega-Atts seem a hell of a lot
better
> > than multiple levels of Level 2 powers.
>
> In many cases you want Range (like with Telekinesis). Sure
> you get more raw power out of Mega-Attributes but you don't
> get the Range bonuses. In some cases (such as Quantum Bolt)
> its damage. In other cases (such as Technique powers) its
> multiple Techniques.
That is a reason to get levels..
>
> Also, don't forget the following rule:
>
> You must purchase up your Quantum to a level equal to the
> Level of the Mega-Attribute minus one. The same limit does
> not apply to powers except that you must have the proper
> Quantum Minimum. Also... you can only buy five levels of
> Mega-Attribute. Buying further levels of Telepathy increases
> your power. Who is a better Telepath, one with Mega-Per 5
> and Telepathy 1 or one with Mega-Per 5 and Telepathy 5?
> Simple answer ne. And heck, if you want to buy up dots of
> Mega-Attributes you go ahead and do so. There's no rule
> against it and their is nothing stopping you and hey, it's
> smart so why not?
I know that a high Quantum is needed to pick up high Mega levels, but I
don't really pay attention to that since most powers need a high Quantum
anyway.
I just find it odd that Megas are so powerful in the game (since they have
their own powers PLUS they give super-bonuses to nearly all powers). Racking
up a dozen successes on a Telepathy roll presumably lets a nova do ANYTHING
to someone's mind.
>
>
> > > : Why do Mega-Attribute descriptions fail to match the actual
abilities?
>
> Dramatic license. A better quible is why Mega-Strength
> trumps Mega-Stanima. Assuming two novas with all else being
> equal but one has Mega-Str 5 and the other has Mega-Sta 5
> the first will win. Why? 25 Automatic success of bashing
> damage that's why. Even at full possible Soak (10) that's
> still 15 automatic bashing dice and while the character has
> three extra Bruised Health levels he is still down past
> Incapacitated already (in fact, he is almost dead). Now,
> even with the resilency Enhancement this is only soak 15
> which is still not enough to keep the Nova from being KO'd.
> And if we assume that Nova has Resilency we can asusme the
> other has Crush and does 25 LETHAL health levels (which the
> poor Mega-Sta nova can only soak 8 of). That seems unfair to
> me. Why should I have to buy Armor to compensate for what I
> should already have from Mega-Stanima.
I agree with the impotence of Mega-Stamina, I was just trying to point an
overall problem. I wanted a low Intelligence character who had always wanted
to be smart, in fact he wanted to be smarter than the really smart people
who were sometimes mean to him. I gave him Intelligence 1, Mega-Intelligence
1. According to the rules he should be more intelligent than any baseline
ever was. Yet a 5 Intelligence human can roll more successes on a given task
than this 'super-genius'.
>
> > > : Why does a nova with 4 levels of Growth (making said nova roughly
80-
> > > : 100 feet tall) only get 4 extra health levels and why do opponents
only
> > > : get two extra dice to hit him? How hard is it to hit something that
> > > : tall?
> > >
> > > Exactly two dice easier.
> >
> > So hitting a traffic sign is exactly two dice harder than hitting a
> > building? Okay...
>
> Walk up to a traffic sign and swing your fist at it. Walk up
> to a building and swing your fist at it. How much harder was
> it to hit one then the other?
Stand 200 yards/meters/etc. from a traffic sign. Shoot at it. Stand 200
yards/meters/etc. from an office building. Shoot at it. Is it only a bit
more difficult to hit the sign?
Erik Stutzman
Aaron Peori <tz...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:37FBFBC0...@ns.sympatico.ca...
> Erik Stutzman wrote:
> > > : Can powers heal aggravated damage?
> > >
> > > Yes, though it isn't stated specifically - See Healing, p. 201: double
> > > quantum and a willpower point.
> >
> > Actually it states specifically that they can't (in the Regeneration
> > description) and it states that they can (when discussing agg damage).
>
> Pg 161: "Regeneration does not heal Aggravated Damage"
>
> Pg 201: "Healing can even regenerate severed limbs or ruined
> organs, but to do so costs double qunatum and a Willpower
> point."
>
> Here it is not specifically stated that it heals Aggravated
> damage but you can read it as that. Since it does NOT in the
> description of the power say that Healing can NOT regenerate
> Agg damage one can assume it can.
Fine, Healing can repair agg damage. Can Regeneration repair it?
>
> Pg 254: "Against baselines, aggravated damage is permanent:
> the wounds never heal. Novas may heal aggravated damage, but
> they get no multiplier for their metabolisms; they heal
> aggravated damage no faster than a baseline heals lethal
> damage."
And the next line is: "The Regeneration and Healing powers can heal
aggravated damage, but each level healed costs triple the normal quantum
point cost."
Maybe I'm just dense but I still see a contradiction. I don't mind either
way, I just wonder which rule the writers wanted in the book.
Kish
Erik Stutzman wrote in message <37fc3...@news.oaktree.net>...
>What is the purpose of the Clone power as written? I don't mean to be
>argumentative, I just don't see what the writers were trying to accomplish
>with the power.
This was debated to death on the Aberrant discussion list. As I'm strictly
a player for Aberrent and doubt I'll ever be a Storyteller, I wasn't paying
all that much attention, but one thing that was pointed out early on that it
looks like you're also overlooking is that nothing drops below 1. That
includes Mega-Attributes, so you can create as many Mega-Strength 1 clones
as you want if you have Mega-Strength 1, and so on.
One scenario that was suggested involved sending the clones on suicide
missions "You three, go into the reactor; while Overkilla's dealing with you
two, you set the reactor off."
Do these help?
Kish
ICQ#: 28085879
AIM: Kish K M
Kis...@mindspring.com
ThunderFoot
~>>I have no imagination or creativity because... I foolishly expected Aberrant
~>>to have been playtested by people who aren't WW writers?
~>Aberrant was extensively playtested by people who aren't WW writers.
~ And in fact by people who don't like White Wolf games in general.
What about by people who _do_ like White Wolf games in general, but consistantly
have problems with a small _part_ of every game? (Which seems to be the category
most of the vocal people in the newsgroup fall into. The Ornery complaining type
who likes things overall, but there's hardly any point in arguing about the things
you _like_ in a product, now is there?)
~ --
~ Bruce Baugh / bruce...@sff.net
--
One can always hope. It doesn't gain you much, but you can do it.
Evan ~ThunderFoot~ Gibson -- egi...@connect.com.au
ThunderFoot
~> party byline "All is well, All is fine there are no flaws" try thinking for
~> yourselves and maybe be a discerning customer who buys and supports better
~> QUALITY products--Maybe White Wolf will get a clue not to create a shitty
~> first edition, they need to learn not to scrap all the good things they
~ You mean like Trinity, Vampire: The Dark Ages or Mage: The Sorcerer's
~ Crusade? Wraith: The Great War?
~ White Wolf has produced several quality first editions which have shown
~ no need for a second edition.
Only Trinity, of those mentioned, is _truely_ a first edition. The others all had
a _great_ deal of playtesting due to their having parent products.
~ I can guarantee that any of the errors you see in Aberrant don't come
~ from lazy writers or developers.
Yes, we all know there is a sweat shop of young philipino children doing
all the writing and development really. You'd be very hard pressed to call them
lazy. I really dislike White Wolf's policy of taking credit for someont elses
work. I mean you pay them 2 cents an hour, so I can't complain that you're taking
advantage of them, but all those children should really have their names listed
in the credits.
It's not too high a price for human dignity is it?
~ What really bothers me most about this thread is that if someone says
~ positive things about the game, then a reprimand and correction and
~ litany of HORRIBLE FATAL FLAWS is directly in order, but if someone
~ rebuts the list of alleged flaws, then this is a terrible thing?
Tall poppy syndrome.
It's ok for things to be flawed. Flawed is natural and natural is the "perfect
and holy" way. It's warm and human and wonderful.
It's _not_ ok for things to be perfect. Perfection is cold and impersonal,
mechanistic and evil.
You should be glad that these wonderful people aren't letting the work be
seen as perfect, cause that would really hurt it's reputation and make sales
plummet in this new age, tree hugging, natural loving, perfection hating,
machine despising world.
~ Deird'Re M. Brooks | xe...@teleport.com | cam#9309026
Geoffrey Brent
>> Changes take input and that input doesn't come on from on high.
>> White wolf has flaws, their system and their settings--whether you admit
>> that or not, doesn't change the fact that FLAWS exist. And a Flaw is "a
>> defect that mars the perfection of something" well White Wolf's products
>> aren't flawless, they aren't perfect.This is not just someone's opinion,
I
>> can pick up any WW book and find numerous flaws, errors in editing, and
>> numerous other things.
>
>Although the editing has precious little to do with the actual creation
>process. It's a polish thing, and some editors will change phrasing and
>grammar in ways that I don't agree with.
>
>I mean, I can pick up a book from just about any publisher out there,
>and find numerous flaws, errors in editing and "numerous other things."
>Some of this stuff just isn't as criminally negligent as people will
>present it. That can't be helped.
Sure, everyone makes editing mistakes from time to time,
and you can't reasonably expect a book to be _perfect_.
OTOH, I think WW's rate of editing mistakes has often
been rather excessive. When an author makes the same
basic grammatical mistake not one, not two, but *eight*
times in a single chapter, and the editor lets those through
to publication, I start wondering whether someone's substituting
a spellchecker for actually going through and checking it
carefully.
While I'm here, I'll say something nice about WW just to
confuse everyone :-) I was pleased to see that VRev had
a bigger, better-organised and all-round more useful index
than its predecessors. I hope Mage Revised will do the
same thing.
>> QUALITY products--Maybe White Wolf will get a clue not to create a
shitty
>> first edition, they need to learn not to scrap all the good things
they
>
>You mean like Trinity, Vampire: The Dark Ages or Mage: The Sorcerer's
>Crusade? Wraith: The Great War?
Those last three aren't exactly "first editions", though. They're
more like third editions, in a variant setting, and with the
benefits of the debugging that went into editions #1and #2.
Geoffrey Brent
Marizhavashti Kali
Geoffrey Brent wrote:
>
> Sure, everyone makes editing mistakes from time to time,
> and you can't reasonably expect a book to be _perfect_.
> OTOH, I think WW's rate of editing mistakes has often
> been rather excessive. When an author makes the same
> basic grammatical mistake not one, not two, but *eight*
> times in a single chapter, and the editor lets those through
> to publication, I start wondering whether someone's substituting
> a spellchecker for actually going through and checking it
> carefully.
To be honest, I think that the whole bitchfest about editing is a straw
man. I've seen *much* worse out there, and I'm not exaggerating. The
question is - is the material worth reading?
> Those last three aren't exactly "first editions", though. They're
> more like third editions, in a variant setting, and with the
> benefits of the debugging that went into editions #1and #2.
Oh, so Aberrant is a first edition, but Trintiy is not? Goofy.
> Geoffrey Brent
--
Deird'Re M. Brooks | xe...@teleport.com | cam#9309026
Geoffrey Brent
<37FC4EF2...@teleport.com>...
>
>
> Geoffrey Brent wrote:
> >
> > Sure, everyone makes editing mistakes from time to time,
> > and you can't reasonably expect a book to be _perfect_.
> > OTOH, I think WW's rate of editing mistakes has often
> > been rather excessive. When an author makes the same
> > basic grammatical mistake not one, not two, but *eight*
> > times in a single chapter, and the editor lets those through
> > to publication, I start wondering whether someone's substituting
> > a spellchecker for actually going through and checking it
> > carefully.
>
> To be honest, I think that the whole bitchfest about editing is a straw
> man. I've seen *much* worse out there, and I'm not exaggerating.
There's certainly worse out there, and some of it's
crummy enough that I don't buy it, don't play it, and
don't frequent the relevant newsgroups. But of the
games that I think are _good_, and worth my time
to begin with, the ones that I think could most
benefit from a bit more attention to editing and basic
factual accuracy* are WW's.
> The
> question is - is the material worth reading?
No, that's not the only question. "Could it have been
better?" is also an important question. You write for
RPGs now and then, if I'm not mistaken; do you
seriously advocate the attitude "OK, it's good enough
to justify the purchase price, so there's no point in
working to make it any better?"
Quality is not a binary property, with the two
choices "worth reading" and "not worth reading".
It comes in quite a few shades of both. WW games
are, on the whole, "worth reading", but I'd like to
see them move to a _higher_ level of "worth reading"
and I think it's quite possible for them to do so. (In
fact, I _know_ it's possible; VRev, for one, is a
shining example of good editing from WW.)
> > Those last three aren't exactly "first editions", though. They're
> > more like third editions, in a variant setting, and with the
> > benefits of the debugging that went into editions #1and #2.
>
> Oh, so Aberrant is a first edition, but Trintiy is not? Goofy.
Eh? Where on earth did I say that Trinity wasn't a
first edition? You listed Trinity, Dark Ages, Sorceror's
Crusade and Great War, in that order, and I referred
to "those last three". I didn't say *anything* about
Trinity, positive or negative - I don't really know it, so
why would I?
Geoffrey Brent
*See the recent "Portuguese is not Spanish!" thread on
rpg.net for more on basic factual accuracy.
The Livewire
Erik Stutzman <sstu...@skyenet.net> wrote in message
news:37fae...@news.oaktree.net...
>
> <dch...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu> wrote in message
> > : Do Clones have the same stats or do those stats drop like falling rocks?
> >
> > Stats drop, though not 'like falling rocks'.
>
> Really? Duplicator Man has impressive but not peak Atts (let's say 3-4 in
> each). With two clones he's looking at 'clones' with Attributes of 1. I find
> it bizarre that a clone with 'identical Attributes' is uglier, stupider,
> clumsier, and weaker than the nova.
Let me see if I understand this...
With abberant, I can create Thor, the Hulk, the Thing, Forge, Reed Richards,
Nightcrawler, etc...
I can't create Jamie Madrox?
Wierd... ;-)
The Livewire
"Jamie! Stop it with the clown car routine!"
Dr Nuncheon
Erik Stutzman <sstu...@skyenet.net> wrote:
>I understand the difference (and I was just being obnoxious there), but I
>still don't know if the Attribute/Mega-Attribute levels are supposed to be
>connected. If Mitoids are in a low-gravity field does their Strength jump to
>Mega 2? For that matter, would a baseline with 5 Strength get Mega 1 in a
>low-grav field?
Huh? This makes no sense. Why would a person in low gravity suddenly get
stronger? They might be able to lift/carry more, but they aren't going to
be able to *punch* any harder. So my answer would be: divide weight or
multiply lift in a low-gravity field. It has nothing to do with
increasing strength overall.
>If I use Aberrant rules in Trinity would characters on Luna get Mega
>Strength? Would Biokinetics that shift their Attributes receive Megas?
No, and I have no idea. What do Biokinetics get when they shift their
Strength past 5 in Trinity normally? Or are they not able to do this?
>I just think it's strange that the book mentions some novas building
>super-tech yet they don't cover it.
But they're going to. There probably wasn't enough space in the main book
to cover a good set of gadgeteering rules. I mean, you can be
disappointed that the rules aren't in the main book, but sometimes
something has to give to make way for stuff that is going to be more
useful to more people.
>I agree with the impotence of Mega-Stamina, I was just trying to point an
>overall problem. I wanted a low Intelligence character who had always wanted
>to be smart, in fact he wanted to be smarter than the really smart people
>who were sometimes mean to him. I gave him Intelligence 1, Mega-Intelligence
>1. According to the rules he should be more intelligent than any baseline
>ever was. Yet a 5 Intelligence human can roll more successes on a given task
>than this 'super-genius'.
So maybe he should have raised his Intelligence with nova points, as well?
(Right now he's the smartest moron on the planet, just like a Str 1, Mega
Str 1 is the strongest weakling on the planet...) Don't forget that during
the eruption you can gain attributes and skills as well as mega-atts and
powers.
Also, depending on what you wanted to do with him, ponder the free
enhancement you get with your mega-int. Is there an area you want him to
be specifically good at? Take the Prodigy merit...that'll allow him to
potentially outshine any normal human in his chosen field.
>> > So hitting a traffic sign is exactly two dice harder than hitting a
>> > building? Okay...
>>
>> Walk up to a traffic sign and swing your fist at it. Walk up
>> to a building and swing your fist at it. How much harder was
>> it to hit one then the other?
>
>Stand 200 yards/meters/etc. from a traffic sign. Shoot at it. Stand 200
>yards/meters/etc. from an office building. Shoot at it. Is it only a bit
>more difficult to hit the sign?
That's range modifiers for ya.
(Hmm...maybe a variant system where larger objects are treated as being at
a closer range for "to-hit" purposes...)
J
--
"Yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation" Jeff Johnston
yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation. jeffj @ io.com
SteveC
Marizhavashti Kali wrote (in response to me, SteveC)
>> I must also point out at this point that you also have an agenda as well.
>> The truth (as in most cases) lies between the extremes.
>
>The truth may lie between extremes, but I hesitate to refer to my
>position as an "extreme." Given that my position in this case is that
>Erik is overly harsh for no real personal gain (unless he enjoys being
>indignant).
I would say that a person who is overly harsh for no personal gain tends
to be more credible than someone who _does_ have such a gain. As
an example, if the creators of another superhero game system were
slamming Aberrant, I would be less likely to listen to them.
As for you specifically, you have (to the best of my knowledge, which is
certainly fallible and possibly wrong) never posted anything but perfect
100% glowing comments on the Aberrant game system. That tells me
that you either have an agenda or are looking at a different set of rules
than I am. When I say that, here is what I mean: I have a number of
systems that I've been playing for years, and think are outstanding.
At the same time, I know that all of them have problems, some even
have _major_ problems. Saying anything else would be disingenuous
on my part.
>
>> it includes the WW house system. Even with the modifications from
>> Trinity there are still problems (just ask anyone who has issues with
>> a dicepool system, but then we just had that thread again last month).
>
>And isn't a problem for those who don't. Honestly, you could say that
>any and every RPG has a problematic system, not because it's
>problematic, but because someone's bound to hate it, dislike it, or want
>to tweak it.
The arguments against the WW system have existed for as long as
the system itself. You will find a large number of folks who come out
of the woodwork whenever the merits of this system come up. I am
not looking to relay those discussions here. You know the arguments
very well by now I'm sure.
At the same time, you are correct in saying that there is no game
system out there that doesn't have problems with it, and people who
are only too happy to point out those problems.
>
>> It has a system that is tied into the game's background. With WW that
>> is something to be expected, but it will instantly bother anyone who is
>> attempting to use Aberrant as a "generic" supers system.
>
>Of course, in Aberrant's case, it isn't difficult to make it more
>generic.
I disagree with this assessment. Costs of powers and their relative
effectiveness are very closely tied to the game world. Major changes
would have to be made to the system to run (for example) a silver-age
game with it.
>
>> Important areas of the rules are missing, as are the important NPCs
>> (even in the supplements, if I am to believe MTR, who I tend to trust
>> in these matters). As long as the BBB of the HERO system exists,
>> the excuse "it will be in a supplement!" doesn't carry much weight
>> with me.
>
>Which important areas of the rules? And do you realize that you only
>have so much space allocated to a book?
>
That's why I specifically mentioned the BBB. In HERO you have a
generic framework to build from, rather than specific powers. Aberrant
has a very good list of specific powers, but there are many things that
aren't handled by it very well. For two specific examples, I would cite
Batman type characters (who must, in effect, become mini "Bricks" to
survive), and Gadget/powered armor characters (who really have no
rules to work with them). I understand that these rules are coming up
in a supplement, but that really doesn't cut it with me.
As far as NPCs go, I have not seen the sourcebooks, but there was
a thread about a month ago stating that the sourcebooks did not have
stats for the key players in the game system. The author was
Michael Richter--who I do not always agree with--yet find accurate in
his assessments of sourcebooks around 95% of the time.
>> I further found Aberrant to be overly complicated (and this is coming
>> from someone who plays HERO). I doubt that it will bring new players
>> to RPGs in the way that earlier WW products did.
>
>This is anecdotal. For everyone who's described Aberrant as
>"complicated", I know two or more who describe it as "easy to learn."
>
>I suspect Aberrant has hooks which (if exploited) can certainly bring
>new players to RPGs.
>
It is anecdotal, you are correct, as are your assessments. I would say,
however, that as someone who is currently playing Rolemaster and
HERO, I generally has a good handle on complicated game systems.
Aberrant, to me, was both poorly organized and less than intuitive.
Any reader is going to take that for what it is worth, I would hope.
>> I understand that Aberrant is not intended to be a generic system, but
>> when it was announced, many folks over on RGFSH thought it might
>> at last be a system to replace HERO as the defining supers RPG.
>> Its not going to be that.
>
>It never tried to be that, so this isn't really a failing.
>
Well, I have heard it described recently as the "800 pound gorilla of
superhero roleplaying games" so I would say that yes, there was more
than a little of that in the design. You've also stated on several occasions
that Aberrant can be used without too many changes for a generic
superhero campaign. I disagree with that assessment.
>> At the same time, there is a lot to like about Aberrant. If you like the
>> world and its underlying themes, its a good buy, and certainly a good
>> _value_ for the money.
>
>Absolutely.
Aah! It took saying something nice about the game to get you to finally
agree with me. :-)
>
>My issue is with Erik's apparent assumption that there is something
>wrong with you if you like Aberrant. he's not presenting his problems
>with the rules as just problems, but as FATAL FLAWS WHICH WILL DESTROY
>ALL ENJOYMENT OF THE GAME. Some of them aren't even flaws, but come from
>a lack of careful reading.
>
Having read Erik's comments on RGFSH, that is really not his goal.
(Please feel free to contradict me here, Erik)
It seems like whenever a new RPG comes out, there are a lot of initial
posts filled with excitement and enthusiasm. When someone goes out
and buys it and happens to find some flaws, they usually start out by
saying "well, the game is pretty good, but what about <a>, <b> and <c>?"
If the response is something like, "well, I had a problem with <a> too,
but I read page xxx and it cleared it up" then there isn't a problem.
The problem comes in when they get this response: "What??! game-X is
the best thing in the world, in fact its better than GURPS, HERO and
FUDGE combined! You are a fool for saying otherwise!" Soon, the game
that they once thought was OK, but had some flaws is looking more and
more like the biggest pile of crap on the face of the earth, because they
are responding to more and more extreme points of view.
To me, your responses on Aberrant have been part of Erik's problem.
As anyone who has read my posts before will tell you, the ONE THING
that gets me into a thread faster than anything else is when someone
brings up the "one true game" concept. There ain't no "one true game,"
and I have played more games than most (right in front of me now are
Daredevils, Warpworld and 7th Sea as a few examples...).
I hope that clarifies things somewhat, and not in an offensive or
argumentative manner.
>--
>Deird'Re M. Brooks | xe...@teleport.com | cam#9309026
>Listowner: Fading Suns, Trinity and Aberrant
>"Balance is nothing, story is everything. Obey your ST."
>http://www.teleport.com/~xenya | http://www.telelists.com
--Steve C.
spc...@att.net
NOTE: Remove NOSPAM to reply to this message
Marizhavashti Kali
Geoffrey Brent wrote:
>
> There's certainly worse out there, and some of it's
> crummy enough that I don't buy it, don't play it, and
> don't frequent the relevant newsgroups. But of the
> games that I think are _good_, and worth my time
> to begin with, the ones that I think could most
> benefit from a bit more attention to editing and basic
> factual accuracy* are WW's.
Another straw man. The recent books have had quite a bit more factual
accuracy than I think a great many people are willing to give credit for
- Ends of Empire, Great War, Children of the Night, Cainite Heresy,
Wolves of the Sea, etc all have quite a good base. Many have fairly good
editing out there.
> > The
> > question is - is the material worth reading?
>
> No, that's not the only question. "Could it have been
> better?" is also an important question. You write for
> RPGs now and then, if I'm not mistaken; do you
> seriously advocate the attitude "OK, it's good enough
> to justify the purchase price, so there's no point in
> working to make it any better?"
I didn't say that. I never said there was no reason to try to do better
- I try to do my best when I write, and I don't always succeed, but I
work at it. My point is that WW's editing "follies" are overemphasized
time and again to the point of eclipsing some of the good material out
there. The "fact-checking" comment is even worse - it implies none ever
happens, when in point of fact, quite a lot of it's been going into
books.
Yes, there are some odd things in some books, but does it really affect
anyting if the Thames is mentioned as flowing the wrong way? Probably
not. It certainly says nothing about the supplement's quality.
> Quality is not a binary property, with the two
> choices "worth reading" and "not worth reading".
> It comes in quite a few shades of both. WW games
> are, on the whole, "worth reading", but I'd like to
> see them move to a _higher_ level of "worth reading"
> and I think it's quite possible for them to do so. (In
> fact, I _know_ it's possible; VRev, for one, is a
> shining example of good editing from WW.
It's not the only one. Unfortunately, you'll also find people who
declare it worthless for two typos on the back cover.
I think that in many more cases than VRev, WW books have moved to a
higher level of "worth reading," and quite a few people failed to
notice. Dunno why, I guess they're still mired in first edition
perceptions.
Marizhavashti Kali
SteveC wrote:
>
>
> To me, your responses on Aberrant have been part of Erik's problem.
Erik's inability to let a positive statement go by without a flame-ish
response is the problem, I didn't provoke him into it.
> As anyone who has read my posts before will tell you, the ONE THING
> that gets me into a thread faster than anything else is when someone
> brings up the "one true game" concept. There ain't no "one true game,"
That's not what I said at any point.
> and I have played more games than most (right in front of me now are
> Daredevils, Warpworld and 7th Sea as a few examples...).
So have I.
> I hope that clarifies things somewhat, and not in an offensive or
> argumentative manner.
For the most part, no. Much of it I disagree with, and I see no
percentage in arguing it.
Aaron Peori
The "Clone" Power.
> Let me get this straight: Assuming I don't want a lot of Taint, I
> spend 15-25 nova points (depending on how I spend my freebies) for the > ability to create pathetic versions of my PC? With above-average
> stats (surely not unreasonable for a nova) I can't make more than 1-2
> clones or their stats are equal to or worse than any average Joe I
> meet. What's the point? They can't be used as decoys, they don't look
> like my PC. They're useless in combat, their stats/skills are
> pathetic. They can help clean the house, but Super-speed lets the PC
> do that and more.
Like Kish pointed out the Mega-Attribute don't drop below 1
either. So your character -can- be inhumanly powerful still.
In effect I think this is meant like a show of the limits of
Quantum Powers. Note under Matter Creation there is no
specific system used for creating living things (such as,
say, mice) yet all flesh is is very complex matter. Maybe in
reality Quantum powers can not work well with living things
and that is the reason for such effects as Taint, the reason
why Healing is such a godawfully expensive ability to buy
and so much -less- useful than a Psions Vitakenisis and so
on. This may be a story reason that hasn't be revealed yet.
Also note the Homonculous power. You could use that to
create many power (if small) versions of the character.
> I wanted a create a guy who could duplicate himself but with the power > in the book I end up with moronic 'clones' that can't tie their shoes.
Maybe the restrictiosn there are meant to limit you to one
Clone? Losing 1 die from all stats isn't that major and I
could think of numerous occasions where a second person
would be useful. Heck, I can think of several places where
several inept versions of myself would be useful. There is
no range limit on -where- a Clone can travel after all. I
could have a Clone of myself in every government building in
the world for instance.
One problem they don't address with the power is whether
"recombined" Clones gain the memories of all the other
Clones. I can understand ones that you let dissolve not
doing so but if you take the time to track down and
recombine with your Clone you may get that benefit.
>
> What is the purpose of the Clone power as written? I don't mean to be
> argumentative, I just don't see what the writers were trying to accomplish
> with the power.
The same as Bioluminessence? Another power I have never seen
anyone waste their time on.
Another power I have a problem with is Disintegration. It
has a Quantum Minimum of 5 BUT I can purchase Quantum Bolt
with the Aggravated Extra at Quantum 1 so it not only costs
less it also has longer range.
<Mega-Attributes versus Normal Attributes>
> I understand the difference (and I was just being obnoxious there),
> but I still don't know if the Attribute/Mega-Attribute levels are
> supposed to be connected.
Mega-Attributes are supplementary Quantum Powers that boost
the efefctiveness of the characters own body. Think of them
like this: Unconcious channeling of Quantum energies through
the body. That is, while Quantum Bolt is concious and
requires a thought, Mega-Strength does not. They are both
Quantum Powers, but the latter is a subconcious function.
> If Mitoids are in a low-gravity field does their Strength jump to
> Mega 2? For that matter, would a baseline with 5 Strength get Mega 1
> in a low-grav field? If I use Aberrant rules in Trinity would
> characters on Luna get Mega Strength? Would Biokinetics that shift
> their Attributes receive Megas? To me the logical answers are no but
> there seems to be precedent in Aberrant for letting baselines/neutrals
> enter nova territory when it comes to Megas.
Where? Mitiods are not normal humans with Mega-Attributes.
They are normal humans who have taken Mite. Thus they have
Quantum Power in their system. Thus they get Mega-Strength
1. It isn't a fact of actually making them stronger, its
more of a focused Quantum Power. Remember the description of
physical feats under Mega-Strength? It goes "Experts on
quantum powers speculate that a Mega-strong nova
unconciously emits quantum energies to help keep the object
together, while he lifts it, but this hypothesis has not
been proven conclusively." Thus one can speculate that that
is what Nova's actually -do- when this power is used. Thus
also the rule under "Lifter" which states "However the
character does not inflict any extra damage with punches or
similar attacks."
<Warp>
> That's more information (and a better idea) than the book gave me.
> From what I've read the developer hasn't answered any questions about
> Warp, so maybe it's supposed to be one of those great mysteries (like
> Slider's killer).
(shrug) Who knows. The company is stretching things a little
tight already.
> > Supertech is easy to handle. By the Trinity Technology
> > Manual. Assume Nova's could build stuff like that now
> > (Hardtech -and- Biotech).
>
> I just think it's strange that the book mentions some novas building
> super-tech yet they don't cover it.
Another possible explanation is the Utopia "ban" on black
tech. Your character may not be -allowed- to develop any new
forms of technology will-nill because of the fact that
Utopia has its stern and ever watchful eye on you.
> Utopia has some control over what hits the market but it can't control
> everything. A nova Tech wizard could completely change the world with
> something s/he whipped up overnight and the book doesn't mention
> anything on it.
The problem here is that their is an actual limit to the
effects of technology. While it is possible to say that if a
Nova "tech-wizard" wips up an object which can instantly
teleport people to venus and back that will change society
overnight... it just might not be possible to do so. Nova's
may be smart but they can't actually break the laws of
reality, or it might take -years- to develop stuff like
that. New technology is just that, NEW technology and even
if you are a super-smart Nova it might take you a decade or
two to develop Tony Stark's Iron Man armor.
The answer is a section on how to create Nova technology
would have to be so complex and so large that putting it in
the core rulebook would be stupid. Frankly I'd rather more
world information since that is what really grabbed me about
the system.
<Quantum Powers versus Mega-Attributes>
> > In many cases you want Range (like with Telekinesis). Sure
> > you get more raw power out of Mega-Attributes but you don't
> > get the Range bonuses. In some cases (such as Quantum Bolt)
> > its damage. In other cases (such as Technique powers) its
> > multiple Techniques.
>
> That is a reason to get levels..
>
> >
> > Also, don't forget the following rule:
> >
> > You must purchase up your Quantum to a level equal to the
> > Level of the Mega-Attribute minus one. The same limit does
> > not apply to powers except that you must have the proper
> > Quantum Minimum. Also... you can only buy five levels of
> > Mega-Attribute. Buying further levels of Telepathy increases
> > your power. Who is a better Telepath, one with Mega-Per 5
> > and Telepathy 1 or one with Mega-Per 5 and Telepathy 5?
> > Simple answer ne. And heck, if you want to buy up dots of
> > Mega-Attributes you go ahead and do so. There's no rule
> > against it and their is nothing stopping you and hey, it's
> > smart so why not?
>
> I know that a high Quantum is needed to pick up high Mega levels, but
> I don't really pay attention to that since most powers need a high
> Quantum anyway.
A few of the stronger ones.
> I just find it odd that Megas are so powerful in the game (since they > have their own powers PLUS they give super-bonuses to nearly all
> powers). Racking up a dozen successes on a Telepathy roll presumably
> lets a nova do ANYTHING to someone's mind.
Nova's are god-like beings. A Nova can, theoretically, with
a single shot do 70 Bashing damage to a single target
(Quantum 5, Bolt 5 (Supercharge), Dex 5, Mega Dex 5,
Accuracy rolling all 10s) which is probably enough to blow a
significant portion of a city to pieces.
Humans just -aren't- a match for the more powerful Nova's.
Nova's can change the world, all by themselves. That is why
they have the powers that be scared shitless.
<Mega-Attributes versus Normal Attributes again>
> I agree with the impotence of Mega-Stamina, I was just trying to point
> an overall problem. I wanted a low Intelligence character who had
> always wanted to be smart, in fact he wanted to be smarter than the
> really smart people who were sometimes mean to him. I gave him
> Intelligence 1, Mega-Intelligence 1. According to the rules he should
> be more intelligent than any baseline ever was. Yet a 5 Intelligence
> human can roll more successes on a given task than this'super-genius'.
Note the rules under "Competeting Mega-Attributes". Unless a
skill is involved (in which case being smarter does not
neccesarily mean anything that is a matter of experience and
training) your Nova will out think the normal human. The two
try to count out digits of pi? The Mega-Attribute wins. The
two try andf memorize a text for school the next day? The
Mega-Attribute does it better. It just happens. Whoever has
the higher Mega-Attribute wins, hands down unless the less
powerful one can force the situation.
<snip>
> > Walk up to a traffic sign and swing your fist at it. Walk up
> > to a building and swing your fist at it. How much harder was
> > it to hit one then the other?
>
> Stand 200 yards/meters/etc. from a traffic sign. Shoot at it. Stand 200
> yards/meters/etc. from an office building. Shoot at it. Is it only a bit
> more difficult to hit the sign?
Yes. The sign isn't moving and I'm not a terrible shot so I
hit the both of them in seconds. True I can wave the gun in
the general direction of the building, but then that is what
the two dice are for.
I think someone else pointed out the math of this.
----------------
Epsilon
Jason Corley
: My problem isn't that people dislike the setting (I don't get on
: Corley's case, for example, because he clearly doesn't look for the same
: things in games that I do, and I don't expect his reactions to mirror
: mine), but that some of the people who dislike the setting are on a holy
: crusade to make everyone dislike the setting. Or the rules.
: Interchangeable, really.
Right, I have nothing in particular to dislike about the setting, I just
found it terribly bland and uninspiring. I will confess that I was a bit
annoyed that the writers seemed to think the setting was so clever and
innovative and so the tone of the setting sections was a little smarmy,
but frankly, I can't throw that stone in my house, and I can't call that
kettle black.
Drake
<xe...@teleport.com> wrote:
>Some of the errors in Aberrant somehow slipped through the cracks - I do
>not know why, since they were discussed during playtest and included in
>reports.
>
>Some of the errors were grammatical, and no one among the playtesters
>commented (to my knowledge) and they somehow got past the editor.
>
>Some of the errors appeared after playtest, and I have no idea where
>they came from.
>
I wote for a game several years ago, and while proofreading it kept
finding the same grammatical error over & over again. I kept
correcting it & giving it back to the editor, but every time I read
the new copy it was still there. It finally went away, the book went
to press, and when the manual came out...there it was again, mocking
me!
Some stuff just gets through, but for what it's woth nothing in
Aberrant made me cringe or want to run screaming from the room. I'm
looking for playability in a game, not perfection.
nightrid
John Peralta wrote:
> I have to agree with you here. Aberrant is a FANTASTIC game.
>
> > I especially love the N! and memo-style
> > introductory material in the first half of the book; wonderful material.
>
> This is the only part I didn't much care for. Not because it's substandard
> but because it does not reflect the type of game I'm going for. Call me
> shallow but I wanted something like the world of Image comics (Cyberforce,
> Gen 13, Backlash, Wetworks, Weapon Zero, Stormwatch...). I understand that
> for White Wolf this might be too vanilla, so I'm in the process of adapting
> Aberrant to something closer to my liking.
I didn't like it because I don't have that much faith in the human spirit and
basic goodness of people. I would not have invisioned N becoming #1. Maybe up
there, but not 1. To many people would freak for novas to have become that
popular.
>
>
> > The system is great, more refined than the WoD games;
>
> The System is what I love the most about the game. It's fairly straight
> forward and allows almost all the flexibility one could desire.
> >
> > An aside: when playing in a non-canon game setting/world, and you don't
> > want to go with the whole Taint/M-R node paradigm, how would you go about
> > balancing the characters? Bruce, anyone?
>
> As I stated above, I don't stick to the "world" provided by Aberrant and am
> in the process of converting the rules to a new campaign I'd like to play. I
> haven't ironed out all the details yet, in truth I'm still brainstorming the
> whole idea. Best I can figure the major stumbling block is quantum and, more
> to the point, the quantum pool. If your game is going to be anything like
> mine the superheroes don't "run out of power" by using pionts in the quantum
> pool. So there is no need for quantum and a quantum pool. HOWEVER, certain
> powers mesure the powers affect as a function of how many quantum points are
> used. the first solution I have come to with this problem is to simply
> create the chararacter as you normally would using all the regular rules.
> Once in play disregard the limited amount of points in the pool.
> I'm not sure this is a good solution but as I said it's still a work in
> progress.
Have the powers as listed, but just say that they automaticly gain the effects
of 1 quantom point, unless the player buys an extra or 3 for more effect. All
charecters could SPEND points to gain the extra effect, and some will take a
flaw of having to spend points. I certianly hoped that makes sence, I just
reread it, and I know what I meant.
> By the same token taint does not have a place in my game. If I want to
> create some bad guys I'll do it the same way I do the good guys.
This is just their rules for deformities of mutants. As good a way to gain more
charecter points as any, just drop the aspect of becoming an npc when you reach
10.
> There is something else I'd like to mention. In trying to convert some of my
> favorite characters to Aberrant I have found that the biggest problem is a
> lack of technology driven abilities. For example the Wetworks simbiots,
> Backlash's psi-whips, Cybernetic enhancements of any type, alien weaponry
> etc. It's difficult to even simulate something like Spiderman's web
> shooters. Any thoughts?
You can either pay points as tainted, but instead of taint it's imbued into an
item, or you can adopt the rules for items from another game like mage. My pc
has mega-Int, and lot's of quantom points into mondane skills like quantom
theory and enginerring. She just rolls lot's of dice and uses her matter
alteration power to make stuff that duplicates powers.
>
>
> How about some technological enhancements for the game? Give us weapons,
> vehicles, equipment.
>
> Thanks for the great game.
> John Peralta
One other rule change we made that might come in handy, mega attribute dice
can't botch. If you roll your combined attribute/mega-attribute, only the normal
attribute dice can botch. Mega-attribute dice are a simple failed roll even on a
1. Now if they gain no successes, and the normal attribute dice botchs, your
still screwed.
nightrider
dch...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu
: As anyone who has read my posts before will tell you, the ONE THING
: that gets me into a thread faster than anything else is when someone
: brings up the "one true game" concept. There ain't no "one true game,"
: and I have played more games than most (right in front of me now are
: Daredevils, Warpworld and 7th Sea as a few examples...).
Just as a side note... I would SO love to play in a 7th Sea game. It looks
like SO much fun!
Anyone else? :)
Aaron Peori
> > Best I can figure the major stumbling block is quantum and, more
> > to the point, the quantum pool. If your game is going to be anything
> > like mine the superheroes don't "run out of power" by using pionts
> > in the quantum pool. So there is no need for quantum and a quantum
> > pool. HOWEVER, certain powers mesure the powers affect as a function
> > of how many quantum points are used.
(Can't find the original so in response)
One concept I came up with was the "Refreshing Pool"
concept. I'm not sure how playable this is but the way it
works is as follows:
Every turn the character starts with a number of Quantum
Points equal to their Quantum rating. They may spend this
many points without problems to fule Quantum Powers. The
amounts it takes to fuel a power would then not be related
to the Level (since that would mean you can't use Quantum
Bolt with 1 Quantum) but instead the Quantum Minimum of the
power. There will come times when you wish to spend more
Quantum power however. To do so you get to use your Node and
Eufiber backgrounds. Node and Eufiber provide a variable
amount of points known as the "pool" and each can store one
point per level of the ability. However, once spent these
points are lost until the charater takes time to "recharge"
their pool. The character automatically refereshes a number
of points equal to their Quantum every turn for normal
spending.
Recharging the pool is accomplished on an hourly basis.
Every hour you may infuse either your Eufiber or your Node
with a number of points equal to your Quantum (that is if
you have 4 Qauntum and a 4 in both Eufiber and Node you
could put 4 in Node, 4 in Eufiber or 2 in Node and 2 in
Eufiber or any combination thereof). Or, in a pinch you
could take an action and roll Quantum after meditating for
one whole turn (no pther actions can be done). Each success
allows you to restore one Quantum Point to either pool but
it costs a Willpower point to do this.
The only powers that need to be significantly altered are
Quantum Regeneration and Quantum Leech. Quantum Regeration
is very simple, simple add it's rating to the total number
of points you may spend in a turn without draining your
pools. Thus if you have Quantum 2 and Quantum Regeneration 3
you may spend 5 Points per turn, every turn. Quantum Leech
works in that every success on the Quantum Leech roll
removes one -potential- point from the victim and adds on to
you for a duration the same as Quantum Vampire. To explain
this more clearly I say that your fundamental power
(Quantum) is unaffected but the amount you can spend is.
That is if you score 3 Successes on a Quantum Leech attempt
your opponent loses the ability to spend 3 points (if they
had three Quantum they can spend no points without going
into a Pool) and you gain the ability to spend 3 more points
per turn for the duration. This would be a resisted action.
Finally, as a last resort if a character is able to spend
more points by gaining Taint. This should only be done once
you have exhausted your Pools and in dire emergincies. For
each point you spend over your normal Quantum and Pool
limits you gain one point of Temporary Taint. For this to
work as a game mechanic you would have to make Taint easier
to bleed off, maybe just refraining from using your powers
for a week bleeds off one point of temporary Taint.
Also, as an addition I have altenrate Taint rules I plan on
introducing. They basically go like this:
You gain no automatic Taint at Quantum 5 or any level of
Quantum thereafter. You gain no automatic Taint for high
Nodes (the Ehancement Taint Resistance is modified to
reflect this) . You gain permanent Taint by purchasing
traits Tainted or by accumulating ten points of Temporary
Taint. You gain temporary Taint by spending more than your
allocated Quantum points per turn (as above). You do NOT
gain temporary Taint for botching powers, botching powers
instead has nasty side-effects decided by the ST at the
time. You manifest one Aberration for -every dot- of
Permanent Taint. You gain one Low-Level one for your first 3
dots, one Medium-Level one for the next three and one
High-Level for the next three and at ten you lose control of
the character. The exception to this is those that are Taint
Resistant. For them, every dot of Mega-Intelligence
represents one dot of Taint they may ignore and thus NOT
receieve an Aberration for. However, they begin to receieve
Aberrations based on the level of the Taint they have, not
how much higher it is than their Mega-Intelligence. That is,
someone with Mega-Intelligence 4 and the Taint Resistance
Enhancement would manifest no Aberration for the first four
Permanent dots but would manifest one Medium-Level upon
reaching 5 dots of Permanent Taint. If Taint Resistanace of
a higher Mega-Intelligence are bought later in the
charcater's career then -further- Aberrations are nullified,
it does not eliminate ones you already have.
-------------
Epsilon
SteveC
dch...@garnet.acns.fsu.edu wrote
>Just as a side note... I would SO love to play in a 7th Sea game. It looks
>like SO much fun!
>
>Anyone else? :)
Well, all you need to do is stop by Madison Wisconsin then. I've been
running a campaign for the last couple of months, and it is going pretty
well. I have been impressed by how the game actually runs in play,
and how well balanced it has been. There have been a few hitches,
but I have been quite impressed by it overall.
If anyone who is thinking about buying it has any questions, I would be
more than happy to answer them (even including the problems I have
seen with it!)
Feel free to e-mail me or ask in the NG.
For the record, it is a fast running game that does cinematic play
very well. The game is very well balanced for a point-based system.
Some of the criticisms I had with it initially were resolved well in play.
The only concerns I still have over it are:
Characters start remarkably similar in their stats and number of dice
rolled for actions. In play this has quickly changed, however.
The magic system tends to work better for villains and NPCs than
characters. Only one character has taken magic, and they have found
somewhat sparing use for it.
If anyone has any specific concerns, let me know!
--Steve C.
spc...@att.net
NOTE:Remove NOSPAM in order to reply
SteveC
Marizhavashti Kali wrote in message (in response to me, SteveC)
>
>> As anyone who has read my posts before will tell you, the ONE THING
>> that gets me into a thread faster than anything else is when someone
>> brings up the "one true game" concept. There ain't no "one true game,"
>
Never mentioning that a game has _any_ flaws and coming out to argue
with anyone who says _anything_ negative about it seems awfully similar
to it. (Again caveat--you may have, but I have never seen such a post,
if there is one, my sincere apologies)
>
>> I hope that clarifies things somewhat, and not in an offensive or
>> argumentative manner.
>
>For the most part, no. Much of it I disagree with, and I see no
>percentage in arguing it.
Of course you don't, you're using WW, so you don't see the percentages
of anything you do! (Joke--that was just a joke!)
As I have made all the point I can in this matter, enjoy gaming. If you
ever wish to discuss the more obscure games out there, you may rely
on me for a more interesting and less argumentative conversation.
nightrid
White Crow wrote:
> I don't much like the "it's in a supplement" mentality for any game
> system, especially when it's info I'd like to have up front. Too many
> game designers forget the fact that supplements are supposed to
> supplement, not be necessary volumes.
I both agree and disagree here. Any game has a set limit on how much they can put
in. I do wish however that they'd have put more into rules such as tech and a
little less into the world. I could really have done without all the interviews.
One was cool, 2 was ok, 3 became redundent. As did all the internal memo's.
>
>
> I doubt it was meant to be that. Although I have a suspicion that Hero
> fans will never move to anything else as the "defining" supers game.
> Although I *never* liked Champions as a system, myself. Although from
> discussions here and on the fudge-l, I doubt anyone in the world would
> want a superhero system the way I would design it. Sigh.
Actually, as I'm about sick of all the other supers games out there, I'd kinda
like to see something differant.
nightrider
Erik Stutzman
Marizhavashti Kali <xe...@teleport.com> wrote:
>
>
> SteveC wrote:
> >
> >
> > To me, your responses on Aberrant have been part of Erik's problem.
>
> response is the problem, I didn't provoke him into it.
You mean the "ABERRANT ROOLZ, BUY IT NOW!" statement? If the guy had
bothered to mention ANYTHING about the game (other than its supposed
flexibility) I might not have said anything. Instead he says 'BUY IT'
and then rants about Wraith's dirt-nap. If you like pointless raves,
great. I don't.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Erik Stutzman
Aaron Peori <tz...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Erik Stutzman wrote:
>
> The "Clone" Power.
>
> > Let me get this straight: Assuming I don't want a lot of Taint, I
> > spend 15-25 nova points (depending on how I spend my freebies) for
the > ability to create pathetic versions of my PC? With above-average
> > stats (surely not unreasonable for a nova) I can't make more than 1-
2
> > clones or their stats are equal to or worse than any average Joe I
> > meet. What's the point? They can't be used as decoys, they don't
look
> > like my PC. They're useless in combat, their stats/skills are
> > pathetic. They can help clean the house, but Super-speed lets the
PC
> > do that and more.
>
> Like Kish pointed out the Mega-Attribute don't drop below 1
> either. So your character -can- be inhumanly powerful still.
The only problem with this is that the game presumes I want a Mega-Str
nova with Clone. If I want Marvel's Multiple Man I'm pretty much
screwed officially.
>
> In effect I think this is meant like a show of the limits of
> Quantum Powers. Note under Matter Creation there is no
> specific system used for creating living things (such as,
> say, mice) yet all flesh is is very complex matter. Maybe in
> reality Quantum powers can not work well with living things
> and that is the reason for such effects as Taint, the reason
> why Healing is such a godawfully expensive ability to buy
> and so much -less- useful than a Psions Vitakenisis and so
> on. This may be a story reason that hasn't be revealed yet.
Again, better stuff than the book gave me (or maybe it did and I missed
it in the pile of color pages). I just wish some sort of explanation
had been given by the writers. As written it seems to state "It's this
way because it's this way" which isn't particularly satisfying.
>
> Also note the Homonculous power. You could use that to
> create many power (if small) versions of the character.
I suppose. I had gotten the impression that Aberrant was going to solve
the jumping-through-hoops that sometimes plagues games like Champions.
Clone sounded like it fit so I didn't pore over the list for
substitutes. I may have to do that after all..
>
> > I wanted a create a guy who could duplicate himself but with the
power > in the book I end up with moronic 'clones' that can't tie their
shoes.
>
> Maybe the restrictiosn there are meant to limit you to one
> Clone? Losing 1 die from all stats isn't that major and I
> could think of numerous occasions where a second person
> would be useful. Heck, I can think of several places where
> several inept versions of myself would be useful. There is
> no range limit on -where- a Clone can travel after all. I
> could have a Clone of myself in every government building in
> the world for instance.
That's true. My beef is that they aren't 'clones' of yourself. Their
inferiority is a real problem if you don't max out your stats (and buy
a few Megas to 1 level each).
>
> One problem they don't address with the power is whether
> "recombined" Clones gain the memories of all the other
> Clones. I can understand ones that you let dissolve not
> doing so but if you take the time to track down and
> recombine with your Clone you may get that benefit.
That could be really nasty with Eidetic Memory (since the clones would
have it as well). Organic recorders, anyone?
>
> >
> > What is the purpose of the Clone power as written? I don't mean to
be
> > argumentative, I just don't see what the writers were trying to
accomplish
> > with the power.
>
> The same as Bioluminessence? Another power I have never seen
> anyone waste their time on.
Agreed. Spending points to glow in the dark seems like something
a 'real role-player' would take to round out the character but I don't
know why anyone would buy say, 5 levels in it. Couldn't Body
Modification give a firefly-type glow for less cost for those who
really want it?
>
> Another power I have a problem with is Disintegration. It
> has a Quantum Minimum of 5 BUT I can purchase Quantum Bolt
> with the Aggravated Extra at Quantum 1 so it not only costs
> less it also has longer range.
Agreed. On of the worst tricks I've thought about is Armor-Piercing
Claws with Mega-Str. Watch that soak pool shrink..
I'm a bit disappointed in how unbalanced the game is. Mega-Str, Armor,
etc. are much better buys than Clone, Animal Mastery, etc. Champions
has its flaws but at least there was some sort of balance (having
usable power frameworks doesn't hurt it either).
I assumed that baselines with 5 Str enter Mega-Str range in a low-grav
field because the book doesn't seem to have rules for Str greater than
5. Besides, if a nova with 5 Str (and no Mega-Str) enters a low-grav
field s/he gets Mega-Str 1. What's the difference between the two in
terms of Str and gravity's affect on that Str?
> <Warp>
>
> > That's more information (and a better idea) than the book gave me.
> > From what I've read the developer hasn't answered any questions
about
> > Warp, so maybe it's supposed to be one of those great mysteries
(like
> > Slider's killer).
>
> (shrug) Who knows. The company is stretching things a little
> tight already.
Just a little :). I think I would use the transporter bit to head off
the 'creative' method of destroying one's enemies (and a good part of
the area).
>
> > > Supertech is easy to handle. By the Trinity Technology
> > > Manual. Assume Nova's could build stuff like that now
> > > (Hardtech -and- Biotech).
> >
> > I just think it's strange that the book mentions some novas building
> > super-tech yet they don't cover it.
>
> Another possible explanation is the Utopia "ban" on black
> tech. Your character may not be -allowed- to develop any new
> forms of technology will-nill because of the fact that
> Utopia has its stern and ever watchful eye on you.
That's true (although a nova that works for a major corp or crime
syndicate might get away with making a lot of tech).
>
> > Utopia has some control over what hits the market but it can't
control
> > everything. A nova Tech wizard could completely change the world
with
> > something s/he whipped up overnight and the book doesn't mention
> > anything on it.
>
> The problem here is that their is an actual limit to the
> effects of technology. While it is possible to say that if a
> Nova "tech-wizard" wips up an object which can instantly
> teleport people to venus and back that will change society
> overnight... it just might not be possible to do so. Nova's
> may be smart but they can't actually break the laws of
> reality, or it might take -years- to develop stuff like
> that. New technology is just that, NEW technology and even
> if you are a super-smart Nova it might take you a decade or
> two to develop Tony Stark's Iron Man armor.
Again, better stuff than the book telling me 'It's coming later so we
won't tell you ANYTHING about super-tech' I think you should write for
the game line.
>
> The answer is a section on how to create Nova technology
> would have to be so complex and so large that putting it in
> the core rulebook would be stupid. Frankly I'd rather more
> world information since that is what really grabbed me about
> the system.
I wouldn't mind if the world information covered different stuff. After
reading the 90+ pages my impression was 'Our world with supers'.
Nothing about seemed particularly interesting. A few pages on legal
systems, for example, gives me more info about the setting than a 4
page spread on two 'Xtreme nova wrestlers'. Of course, Trinity didn't
put legal info in the main book either so I guess an Aberrant:Super
Laws and Psych Evaluations supplement will come out next year.
What do you do with a nova who kills in self-defense? His powers are
lethal weapons by any definition. Will he be considered a threat to
society? If he's found guilty will he be a problem in prison (assuming
he decides to stay locked up)?
What about an insane nova? Is commitment possible when s/he can destroy
matter with a thought? If not would s/he have to be killed?
Is it possible to treat insane novas whose insanity isn't caused by
Taint? Current drugs won't help (maybe Utopia's working on that as
well). Maybe a Mega-Charisma, Mega-Manipulation shrink (or one with
Domination or Telepathy) could help these people..
I can make it all up but a few guidelines would be nice in case I ever
wanted to play in the 'official' setting.
>
> <Quantum Powers versus Mega-Attributes>
>
> > > In many cases you want Range (like with Telekinesis). Sure
> > > you get more raw power out of Mega-Attributes but you don't
> > > get the Range bonuses. In some cases (such as Quantum Bolt)
> > > its damage. In other cases (such as Technique powers) its
> > > multiple Techniques.
> >
> > That is a reason to get levels..
> >
> > >
> > > Also, don't forget the following rule:
> > >
> > > You must purchase up your Quantum to a level equal to the
> > > Level of the Mega-Attribute minus one. The same limit does
> > > not apply to powers except that you must have the proper
> > > Quantum Minimum. Also... you can only buy five levels of
> > > Mega-Attribute. Buying further levels of Telepathy increases
> > > your power. Who is a better Telepath, one with Mega-Per 5
> > > and Telepathy 1 or one with Mega-Per 5 and Telepathy 5?
> > > Simple answer ne. And heck, if you want to buy up dots of
> > > Mega-Attributes you go ahead and do so. There's no rule
> > > against it and their is nothing stopping you and hey, it's
> > > smart so why not?
> >
> > I know that a high Quantum is needed to pick up high Mega levels,
but
> > I don't really pay attention to that since most powers need a high
> > Quantum anyway.
>
> A few of the stronger ones.
Nearly all level 3 powers..
>
> > I just find it odd that Megas are so powerful in the game (since
they > have their own powers PLUS they give super-bonuses to nearly all
> > powers). Racking up a dozen successes on a Telepathy roll
presumably
> > lets a nova do ANYTHING to someone's mind.
>
> Nova's are god-like beings. A Nova can, theoretically, with
> a single shot do 70 Bashing damage to a single target
> (Quantum 5, Bolt 5 (Supercharge), Dex 5, Mega Dex 5,
> Accuracy rolling all 10s) which is probably enough to blow a
> significant portion of a city to pieces.
>
> Humans just -aren't- a match for the more powerful Nova's.
> Nova's can change the world, all by themselves. That is why
> they have the powers that be scared shitless.
I don't get that feeling from the setting, though. Sure the US,
Britain, and Russia aren't thrilled with novas but the rest of the
world seems overjoyed to have them. It's humanity's Golden Age..
> <Mega-Attributes versus Normal Attributes again>
>
> > I agree with the impotence of Mega-Stamina, I was just trying to
point
> > an overall problem. I wanted a low Intelligence character who had
> > always wanted to be smart, in fact he wanted to be smarter than the
> > really smart people who were sometimes mean to him. I gave him
> > Intelligence 1, Mega-Intelligence 1. According to the rules he
should
> > be more intelligent than any baseline ever was. Yet a 5
Intelligence
> > human can roll more successes on a given task than this'super-
genius'.
>
> Note the rules under "Competeting Mega-Attributes". Unless a
> skill is involved (in which case being smarter does not
> neccesarily mean anything that is a matter of experience and
> training) your Nova will out think the normal human. The two
> try to count out digits of pi? The Mega-Attribute wins. The
> two try andf memorize a text for school the next day? The
> Mega-Attribute does it better. It just happens. Whoever has
> the higher Mega-Attribute wins, hands down unless the less
> powerful one can force the situation.
I didn't say they were competing. Let's say my sample nova is working
in Atlanta on a cure for some virus. My sample baseline is working in
Bombay on a cure for the same virus. Are they considered to be
competing for the cure?
I don't want to sound whiny, I just don't see how low-levels of Megas
(except for Mega-Str) are inherently superior to high levels of base
stats.
>
> <snip>
>
> > > Walk up to a traffic sign and swing your fist at it. Walk up
> > > to a building and swing your fist at it. How much harder was
> > > it to hit one then the other?
> >
> > Stand 200 yards/meters/etc. from a traffic sign. Shoot at it. Stand
200
> > yards/meters/etc. from an office building. Shoot at it. Is it only
a bit
> > more difficult to hit the sign?
>
> Yes. The sign isn't moving and I'm not a terrible shot so I
> hit the both of them in seconds. True I can wave the gun in
> the general direction of the building, but then that is what
> the two dice are for.
Interesting. Since I've never held a gun in my life I shouldn't really
be able to hit the building or the target according to Aberrant's
rules. I'll give myself 2 Dex, 0 Firearms. I have 2 dice to hit the
sign, 4 dice to hit the building. I guess on an average roll I just
might hit the 100 foot tall building (or even 200 feet, since Growth
doesn't give any furthers penalties for level 5). I don't see how
something 40 times the size of an average person is only a bit harder
to hit than the average person.
Bill Dowling
> Nova's are god-like beings. A Nova can, theoretically, with
> a single shot do 70 Bashing damage to a single target
> (Quantum 5, Bolt 5 (Supercharge), Dex 5, Mega Dex 5,
> Accuracy rolling all 10s) which is probably enough to blow a
> significant portion of a city to pieces.
Actually, you can only get 5 extra dice to damage from the successes on the
"to-hit" roll.
chris nasipak
: These are just the things I've noticed. I'm sure others have noticed
: even more problems. Aberrant isn't all bad but you may want to wait for
: someone to actually put fixes up before you get it.
Eric, question for you.
Where does it say that this is supposed to be a simulation of reality?
This is ABERRANT, not PAPERS & PAYCHECKS.
--
"Eat hot flaming plasmic pulse cannon death, you
saucer-alien human-abducting alien bastards!"
-- Captain Ano Itai, EAS Dauntless
Raindog
Erik Stutzman <sstu...@skyenet.net> wrote:
>Can powers heal aggravated damage?
Yes. Why? p. 255, Healing, first column, 5th paragraph clearly states
that Healing and Regeneration bypass the systems. On page 254, first column,
second paragraph, it states that Aberrants heal Aggravated damage at the
normal speed, gaining no multiplier /for their metabolism/ (emphasis mine).
This metabolism is established on the sidebar on p. 254 as allowing even
non-Mega-Stamina'ed novas to heal at double normal rate, with additional
modifiers for Mega-Stamina, as described on p. 160.
Thus, not even unenhanced Mega-Stamina lets you heal faster than
Baseline-normal if you take agg, but Regeneration and Healing will have you up
and around in no time.
>Do Clones have the same stats or do those stats drop like falling rocks?
This is perfectly clear from the description of te Clone power. Clones
are exact duplicates in that they have the same appearance, clothing,
Abilities, Attributes, Quantum Powers and the like. Certain ratings are,
however, decreased by one dot per clone you create.
>Are Mega-Attributes separate from Attrbiutes (the Str 1, Mega-Str 1
>nova) or they connected (the Mitoids, Growth and Density powers)?
Normally, no. However, certain powers cause people to increase in
strength beyond the human pale. This is simulated in a handy fashion by
allowing people who go above 5 Strength to get Mega-Strength on top of that.
Likewise with Mega-Stamina.
>What happens when a nova uses Warp to open a portal to space (or the
>bottom of an ocean, or the mantle of the Earth)?
How about to Mars? The upper atmosphere? Inside a moving train? How
about in front of one? what about along a fault line stress point? The power
is 'open a gate to anyplace within x miles'. There is no mechanical treatment
that can cover that adequately, thus it is left to Storyteller ajudication.
IIRC, the treatment of Warp in DC Heroes is similarly nebulous, for precisely
the same reason.
>Why aren't there any super-tech rules in the book, considering a nova
>could have Mega-Intelligence and build such tech?
I have no idea. I would assume space limitations played a part.
>Why are power effects based on with dice pool successes (something
>which almost guarantees no player will get more than one level of most
>powers since Mega-Atts give MANY more successes)?
Because things like Range and Duration are often based on Quantum +
Power Level. You could get all your powers at 1, but they'd all have a short
range, and be very expensive to maintain if they were Duration: Maintenance.
>Why do Mega-Attribute descriptions fail to match the actual abilities?
>(Nova X has Mega-Stamina 5, giving him a soak of 10 bashing, 5 lethal.
>According to the description missiles bounce off his chest. Yeah right.)
This is called 'hyperbole'. Note also that if the nova has chosen
Durability as her free Mega-Stamina enchancement, she can in fact bounce man
portable antitank missiles off her chest, though it may sting a bit, depending
on how good the attack and damage rolls are. She will almost certainly
take no damage from a 30mm autocannon burst. Note that this requires an
enhancement, but you do get one for free.
>Why does a nova with 4 levels of Growth (making said nova roughly 80-
>100 feet tall) only get 4 extra health levels and why do opponents only
>get two extra dice to hit him? How hard is it to hit something that
>tall?
Because it is not Godzilla: The Stomping. Size does not work the same
way in comic books as it does in real life. Note also the lack of rules for
breaking your bones from unexpected motions, or your death due to anoxia
because your heart is proportionally too small to pump blood to your brain.
If you want to play Fin Fang Foom, get lots of Body Modification:
Extra Health Levels. If you want to play a realistic game about 80' tall
people, you're out of luck, becuase realistic 80' tall people would die
almost immediately due to inverse square law-induced complications.
>These are just the things I've noticed. I'm sure others have noticed
>even more problems. Aberrant isn't all bad but you may want to wait for
>someone to actually put fixes up before you get it.
I dunno what's up with Erik, but most of these problems aren't. That
isn't to say that Aberrant doesn't have problems, but they generally aren't
the ones Erik is "citing". The lack of gadgeteering rules is a pain in the
butt. The game is generally (but not incredibly) setting-tied, and the
sekrit evil conspiracy could be detected by four dope-smoking college dropouts
and their dog. Finally, it's really easy to design a character who would
absolutely overshadow any dozen mortals, but who'll always be second best in a
group of overlapping specialists like a hero team.
That said, I think it's cool. It has of Champions' flexibility without
the miserable combat system or the requirement for several years of experience
to generate a really nifty character, and a lot of DC's speed without being a
game about column shifts and hero point burns. It's not as flexible as
Champions or as fast as DC, but I think it strikes a happy medium.
G.
Cur-At-Large
--
|Geoffrey C. Grabowski|http://www.raindog.org|rai...@eyrie.org|SwingHeil!
God made men, but Sam Colt made them equal
Jason Corley
: I wouldn't mind if the world information covered different stuff. After
: reading the 90+ pages my impression was 'Our world with supers'.
: Nothing about seemed particularly interesting.
Hear, hear. And I'm one of the heretical roleplayers that thinks our
world /is/ normally interesting and games which supposedly add to it
should be interesting as well.
: A few pages on legal
: systems, for example, gives me more info about the setting than a 4
: page spread on two 'Xtreme nova wrestlers'. Of course, Trinity didn't
: put legal info in the main book either so I guess an Aberrant:Super
: Laws and Psych Evaluations supplement will come out next year.
Well, there was /some/ legal information in the main book of Trinity, but
it was not focussed entirely on the psionic orders, which was fine with
me, since I never really cared too much about them anyway. The legal
information can be found in the geographic overviews of the various
regions of the world. It's a little more substantive in "weird" areas like
the dictatorial FSA or the technocratic (small t for all you Mage players
who are still paying attention to the thread) Nippon.
: I can make it all up but a few guidelines would be nice in case I ever
: wanted to play in the 'official' setting.
I have essentially given up more or less completely on ever playing in an
"official" setting of any game compan for any reason. What mostly
disappointed me about the Aberrant setting was that the neat things I felt
like I could incorporate into my setting were /very/ specific and the
background world was very vague and ill-formed. Compare this to Trinity
in which the background world was very interesting and thought-provoking
and provided a lot of grist for my mill.
I imagine people who are not as picky about their setting elements will
like Aberrant's just fine.
Aaron Peori
<Clone still>
> > Like Kish pointed out the Mega-Attribute don't drop below 1
> > either. So your character -can- be inhumanly powerful still.
>
> The only problem with this is that the game presumes I want a Mega-Str
> nova with Clone. If I want Marvel's Multiple Man I'm pretty much
> screwed officially.
True enough. I came up with a new version which goes like
this: Each success can produce one Clone. For every Clone
created you must spend 1 Quantum Point. Every Clone loses
one die of all traits. HOWEVER, you can spend Quantum Points
to counter this. For every point you spend you can raise the
Clones Traits by 1 back up to your maximums. Thus if you
wanted to create one perfect Clone it costs 2 Quantum
Points, if you wanted to create 6 it costs 12 and so on.
ssentially you just double the Quantum per Clone cost and
that should maintain game balance.
> >
> > In effect I think this is meant like a show of the limits of
> > Quantum Powers. Note under Matter Creation there is no
> > specific system used for creating living things (such as,
> > say, mice) yet all flesh is is very complex matter. Maybe in
> > reality Quantum powers can not work well with living things
> > and that is the reason for such effects as Taint, the reason
> > why Healing is such a godawfully expensive ability to buy
> > and so much -less- useful than a Psions Vitakenisis and so
> > on. This may be a story reason that hasn't be revealed yet.
>
> Again, better stuff than the book gave me (or maybe it did and I missed
> it in the pile of color pages). I just wish some sort of explanation
> had been given by the writers. As written it seems to state "It's this
> way because it's this way" which isn't particularly satisfying.
I think that's a restraint of space and a theme decision.
They haven't revealed all the secrets of Taint but I'm sure
as the game goes along they will reveal more. Of course,
some call that a cheap purchasing ploy but I don't see it as
such. It's like a good novel series, waiting for the next
installement so you can learn more of the secrets as far as
I see it. The space factor of course comes in in the fact
that they would have to dedicate that amount of detail to
every power in the system, which would make it a huge
book... or they'd have to have more generic powers. I LIKE
the way White Wolf ties theme and story elements to the
actual mechanics of its powers so I don't -want- more
generic powers. I'd like more information but that isn't
economically feasible. It is while I'll buy supplements for
this system however.
> > Also note the Homonculous power. You could use that to
> > create many power (if small) versions of the character.
>
> I suppose. I had gotten the impression that Aberrant was going to solve
> the jumping-through-hoops that sometimes plagues games like Champions.
> Clone sounded like it fit so I didn't pore over the list for
> substitutes. I may have to do that after all..
Well, the system isn't perfect after all. Soemtimes the
power you thought you wanted isn't the power you really need
for the character concept. I wanted a character who could
manipulate others so at first I thought of Dommination and
Mega-Manipulation... however, in the end as theme came out I
began to develop the powers a "pheremone" based so I ended
up buying stuff like Disorient, Mega-Charisma and Hynosis
instead.
> > Maybe the restrictiosn there are meant to limit you to one
> > Clone? Losing 1 die from all stats isn't that major and I
> > could think of numerous occasions where a second person
> > would be useful. Heck, I can think of several places where
> > several inept versions of myself would be useful. There is
> > no range limit on -where- a Clone can travel after all. I
> > could have a Clone of myself in every government building in
> > the world for instance.
>
> That's true. My beef is that they aren't 'clones' of yourself. Their
> inferiority is a real problem if you don't max out your stats (and buy
> a few Megas to 1 level each).
Not really, it's a problem for a specific type of character
(the one man army type) but the power has other uses.
> >
> > One problem they don't address with the power is whether
> > "recombined" Clones gain the memories of all the other
> > Clones. I can understand ones that you let dissolve not
> > doing so but if you take the time to track down and
> > recombine with your Clone you may get that benefit.
>
> That could be really nasty with Eidetic Memory (since the clones would
> have it as well). Organic recorders, anyone?
Indeed.
> > The same as Bioluminessence? Another power I have never seen
> > anyone waste their time on.
>
> Agreed. Spending points to glow in the dark seems like something
> a 'real role-player' would take to round out the character but I don't
> know why anyone would buy say, 5 levels in it. Couldn't Body
> Modification give a firefly-type glow for less cost for those who
> really want it?
(shrug) The only level 1 power I see consitently bought is
Claws.
> >
> > Another power I have a problem with is Disintegration. It
> > has a Quantum Minimum of 5 BUT I can purchase Quantum Bolt
> > with the Aggravated Extra at Quantum 1 so it not only costs
> > less it also has longer range.
>
> Agreed. On of the worst tricks I've thought about is Armor-Piercing
> Claws with Mega-Str. Watch that soak pool shrink..
> I'm a bit disappointed in how unbalanced the game is. Mega-Str, Armor,
> etc. are much better buys than Clone, Animal Mastery, etc. Champions
> has its flaws but at least there was some sort of balance (having
> usable power frameworks doesn't hurt it either).
I think it's balanced, but in other ways. Champions is
generally balanced along the lines of "in combat character
with x power is no more effective then character with y
power" whereas in Aberrant character are more balanced along
the lines of normal humans. Someone may be better than you
in a lot of things... but you'r better all around. Or they
may be better in one thing but ina different situation and
some intelligent tactics you can prove a more valuable
character.
Frankly I fear a character with Mega-Charisma 5 more than I
do someone with Quantum Bolt 5 or even Telepathy and
Doomination. Why? Because the worlds greatest historical
monster was nothing more than a Charismatic -normal human-.
Imagine what a megalomaniac whom could sway the entire world
(literally) against you could do! I may be able to blow
things up real good, or dominate one or two people... but he
has an army.
> > Where? Mitiods are not normal humans with Mega-Attributes.
> > They are normal humans who have taken Mite. Thus they have
> > Quantum Power in their system. Thus they get Mega-Strength
> > 1. It isn't a fact of actually making them stronger, its
> > more of a focused Quantum Power. Remember the description of
> > physical feats under Mega-Strength? It goes "Experts on
> > quantum powers speculate that a Mega-strong nova
> > unconciously emits quantum energies to help keep the object
> > together, while he lifts it, but this hypothesis has not
> > been proven conclusively." Thus one can speculate that that
> > is what Nova's actually -do- when this power is used. Thus
> > also the rule under "Lifter" which states "However the
> > character does not inflict any extra damage with punches or
> > similar attacks."
>
> I assumed that baselines with 5 Str enter Mega-Str range in a low-grav
> field because the book doesn't seem to have rules for Str greater than
> 5. Besides, if a nova with 5 Str (and no Mega-Str) enters a low-grav
> field s/he gets Mega-Str 1. What's the difference between the two in
> terms of Str and gravity's affect on that Str?
Assume the rules in Trinity for normal humans. Strength can
go beyond 5 in low gravity but doesn't become Mega. Perhaps
the Nova is special because they have subconcious Quantum
control and even if they don't have Mega-Strength the body
finds it easy to emulate it once out of a standard gravity
field.
> > (shrug) Who knows. The company is stretching things a little
> > tight already.
>
> Just a little :). I think I would use the transporter bit to head off
> the 'creative' method of destroying one's enemies (and a good part of
> the area).
Heh. The game may have a veneer of physics but actually
realitsic it is NOT by a long shot.
> > Another possible explanation is the Utopia "ban" on black
> > tech. Your character may not be -allowed- to develop any new
> > forms of technology will-nill because of the fact that
> > Utopia has its stern and ever watchful eye on you.
>
> That's true (although a nova that works for a major corp or crime
> syndicate might get away with making a lot of tech).
Maybe, but again the time factor come in. Plus you would
need to get research and production materials, conduct
experiments to make sure it works. (Player: What do you mean
I forgot to test it? My character is infalliable! ST:
<helpless laughter>) A major corp would find it hard to
conduct this research without Utopia finding out pretty fast
(when it has Telepaths and Mega-Manipulators it does that).
Also while being a member of a criminal cartel will afford
you a greater freedom it also has more of a hazard
associated. More than likely your research is totally secret
so you are probably working with substandard equipment, your
bosses -will- demand results so you will have to rush
through critical testing phases and procedural work thus
allowing flaws and lemons to work their way into the
finished product, and if this does come into the light of
day then Utopia is going to crack down on the cartel -hard-
so they won't be able to invest all that much of their
resources into black tech development because as it is they
are struggling to survive. No, more likely the contribution
of criminal cartels to the black tech trade is providing you
with a market (whether you want it or not possibly).
> > The problem here is that their is an actual limit to the
> > effects of technology. While it is possible to say that if a
> > Nova "tech-wizard" wips up an object which can instantly
> > teleport people to venus and back that will change society
> > overnight... it just might not be possible to do so. Nova's
> > may be smart but they can't actually break the laws of
> > reality, or it might take -years- to develop stuff like
> > that. New technology is just that, NEW technology and even
> > if you are a super-smart Nova it might take you a decade or
> > two to develop Tony Stark's Iron Man armor.
>
> Again, better stuff than the book telling me 'It's coming later so we
> won't tell you ANYTHING about super-tech' I think you should write for
> the game line.
I'm flattered and I'd love to but I'm working on starting up
becoming a fiction writer first.
> >
> > The answer is a section on how to create Nova technology
> > would have to be so complex and so large that putting it in
> > the core rulebook would be stupid. Frankly I'd rather more
> > world information since that is what really grabbed me about
> > the system.
>
> I wouldn't mind if the world information covered different stuff. > After
> reading the 90+ pages my impression was 'Our world with supers'.
> Nothing about seemed particularly interesting. A few pages on legal
> systems, for example, gives me more info about the setting than a 4
> page spread on two 'Xtreme nova wrestlers'.
(shrug) Mass market appear. Unless you missed the
similarties between "Stone Badass Stryker" and a certain
star of the WWF who shall remain nameless? The fact is that
wreslting is very popular now so that was put in to appeal
to the fans. I'm just surprised their was no other trash TV
references within N! ("Transvestites Erupt and become actual
women! One the next Springer!").
> Of course, Trinity didn't
> put legal info in the main book either so I guess an Aberrant:Super
> Laws and Psych Evaluations supplement will come out next year.
> What do you do with a nova who kills in self-defense? His powers are
> lethal weapons by any definition. Will he be considered a threat to
> society? If he's found guilty will he be a problem in prison (assuming
> he decides to stay locked up)?
I think it would have to be handled on a case by case basis.
In most cases I'd rule that a Nova who "killed" in
self-defence used unnecesary force. Even those with just
Quantum Bolt can choose to do only bashing and less than
their total damage pool with each shot so failure to hold
back would be criminal neglect on the part of the Nova in
question. On the other hand a Nova may exist who has no
control over their powers, in such a case it may be handled
similary to an insanity defense with the person being taken
to an M-R facility until they can control themselves. The
current legal system in most democratic countires could
handle Nova crimes and practices with little problems.
Having a Quantum Bolt is no different than being an expert
in hand-to-hand to the point of being able to kill with your
barehands. More dangerous yes, but hardly soemthing that
woud topple the justice system.
> What about an insane nova? Is commitment possible when s/he can destroy
> matter with a thought? If not would s/he have to be killed?
Yes. The drug Mox can interfere with Nova abilities,
presumably in greater qunatities it could nullify them
completely. Thus Nova would have to be held by Utopia who
would deliver the neccesary doses of Mox to the criminally
insane.
> Is it possible to treat insane novas whose insanity isn't caused by
> Taint? Current drugs won't help (maybe Utopia's working on that as
> well). Maybe a Mega-Charisma, Mega-Manipulation shrink (or one with
> Domination or Telepathy) could help these people..
What the moment they can't treat Taint. They don't even know
what it IS yet. Otherwise I think you hit the nail on the
head there. Though Telepathic contact can have its own
drawbacks.
> I can make it all up but a few guidelines would be nice in case I ever
> wanted to play in the 'official' setting.
Just assume the standard legal system for our world and see
how it fits. It's only be ten years since Nova's erupted so
it is entirely possible their -are- no Nova specific laws as
of yet (aside from the Zurcih Accrod and the one about Nova
personas). Also Utopia is keeping the cases of certain Nova
powers heavily censored from the public (Telepathy,
Domination et al) so they won't have specific laws that deal
with them and many other powers might be rare or even
non-existant as of yet. (Ie, Where does a Clone stand in
terms of human rights?)
More than likely all of these concerns will be dealt with in
the Utopia sourcebook.
> > A few of the stronger ones.
>
> Nearly all level 3 powers..
Yeah, but nearly all Level 3 powers have other benefits from
high levels.
> > Humans just -aren't- a match for the more powerful Nova's.
> > Nova's can change the world, all by themselves. That is why
> > they have the powers that be scared shitless.
>
> I don't get that feeling from the setting, though. Sure the US,
> Britain, and Russia aren't thrilled with novas but the rest of the
> world seems overjoyed to have them. It's humanity's Golden Age..
A combination of Mega-Charisma, Mega-Appearance and media
savvy. I for one would be scared shitless to live in that
world, unless I was a NOva myself. However the rise of
Utopia (very -convient- how quickly they formed into a large
efficent organization ne? I never heard of -any-
organization doing so well so quickly and I don't buy that
Nova's can be that much a miracle worker, but I digress) and
the fact that Novas are still, essentially, human beings has
caused people to accept them. And I said "the powers that
be". That is why they have the Directive. Normal people will
accept anything once they gte used to the idea.
> > Note the rules under "Competeting Mega-Attributes". Unless a
> > skill is involved (in which case being smarter does not
> > neccesarily mean anything that is a matter of experience and
> > training) your Nova will out think the normal human. The two
> > try to count out digits of pi? The Mega-Attribute wins. The
> > two try andf memorize a text for school the next day? The
> > Mega-Attribute does it better. It just happens. Whoever has
> > the higher Mega-Attribute wins, hands down unless the less
> > powerful one can force the situation.
>
> I didn't say they were competing. Let's say my sample nova is working
> in Atlanta on a cure for some virus. My sample baseline is working in
> Bombay on a cure for the same virus. Are they considered to be
> competing for the cure?
No, but like I said in those situation there are so many
different variables (and Intelligence is by far not the only
one!) that it is impossible to judge them in comparison. I
mean, how experienced is one with medicine? What equipment
does each have? Is one just plain -luckier- than the other?
The theoretical "all-things-being-equal" doesn't exist in
the real world, and it doesn't in Aberrant. That is why you
roll dice after all.
> I don't want to sound whiny, I just don't see how low-levels of Megas
> (except for Mega-Str) are inherently superior to high levels of base
> stats.
They are. No human with Appearance 5 can look as good as a
Nova with Mega-Appearance 1... but what is YOUR concept of
beauty? The Nova can't possibly please everyone all the time
anymore than the normal human can.
> > > Stand 200 yards/meters/etc. from a traffic sign. Shoot at it. Stand
> 200
> > > yards/meters/etc. from an office building. Shoot at it. Is it only
> a bit
> > > more difficult to hit the sign?
> >
> > Yes. The sign isn't moving and I'm not a terrible shot so I
> > hit the both of them in seconds. True I can wave the gun in
> > the general direction of the building, but then that is what
> > the two dice are for.
>
> Interesting. Since I've never held a gun in my life I shouldn't really
> be able to hit the building or the target according to Aberrant's
> rules. I'll give myself 2 Dex, 0 Firearms. I have 2 dice to hit the
> sign, 4 dice to hit the building. I guess on an average roll I just
> might hit the 100 foot tall building (or even 200 feet, since Growth
> doesn't give any furthers penalties for level 5). I don't see how
> something 40 times the size of an average person is only a bit harder
> to hit than the average person.
Actually with 2 dice you have a good chance of succeeding in
the hit. I believe someone else did the math but the chances
-do- improve a great deal with even one or two extra dice.
That's why it isn't linear improvement.
-------------
Epsilon
Robert Barrett
: I imagine people who are not as picky about their setting elements will
: like Aberrant's just fine.
See--here we've wandered into questions of taste. I like the vanilla
Aberrant just fine, and you know how picky I am about some of White Wolf's
other games, Jason (Maltese Changeling, anyone?). So I suspect that
mileage will vary with the Aberrant 'Verse.
The one thing that does annoy me about Aberrant critiques is that many of
them seem to be unjustly knocking the game for *not* being a generic
supers game (where are the sorcerors supreme? the gadgeteers? etc.).
This is unfair: Aberrant is not generic, and it was never sold to me as
generic. I suspect that many of these critics are (a) working out of a
HERO system meme/mindset (not surprising given the history of supers
gaming) and (b) confusing remarks made by unofficial boosters of the game
with regards to its potential as a generic rules set for supers. Can we
either drop this critique or limit it, as some have understandably done,
to a discussion about the work it *would* take to use Aberrant in other
settings?
Best,
Rob
--
Robert W. Barrett, Jr. * E-mail: rbar...@dept.english.upenn.edu * World
Wide Web: http://www.english.upenn.edu/~rbarrett/index.html * Dept. of
English, Univ. of Pennsylvania * "What makes the muskrat guard his musk?
Courage!" The Cowardly Lion (Bert Lahr), *The Wizard of Oz* (1939)
DasBastard
wrote:
>Assume the rules in Trinity for normal humans. Strength can
>go beyond 5 in low gravity but doesn't become Mega. Perhaps
>the Nova is special because they have subconcious Quantum
>control and even if they don't have Mega-Strength the body
>finds it easy to emulate it once out of a standard gravity
>field.
I think there's some confusion about the effects of gravity on
strength. In low gravity, jumping and lifting will be easier
(proportionate to the reduction in gravity).
Low gravity will NOT make it easier to punch through steel doors or
throw a baseball any harder (although you *could* throw it farther).
At least not significantly so (you may get tiny improvements for not
having to support your own weight or the weight of objects you are
flinging around). These things are controlled by mass and material
properties, and have NOTHING to do with the gravitational field you're
in.
Keep in mind if you are standing in zero-g, and quickly heft some
heavy object over your head, you must quickly decide between two
options:
1) Let go.
2) Go flying off into space with whatever object you have just lifted.
The moral:
Your strength score doesn't change at all. The lifting capacity for
a given strength score increases accordingly with decreasing gravity.
DasBastard
Jason Corley
: Jason Corley (cor...@chronic.lpl.arizona.edu) wrote:
: : I imagine people who are not as picky about their setting elements will
: : like Aberrant's just fine.
: See--here we've wandered into questions of taste. I like the vanilla
: Aberrant just fine, and you know how picky I am about some of White Wolf's
: other games, Jason (Maltese Changeling, anyone?). So I suspect that
: mileage will vary with the Aberrant 'Verse.
Quite so. What I meant to say was that people (like myself) who look for
more of a "toolbox" of crazy ideas which they can use to build their
specific game when they look at an RPG are likely to be more disappointed
than people who do not. It's definitely a matter of taste, and also
definitely a matter of what you look for in a game.
The ideas in Aberrant's setting that I enjoyed and wanted to explore were,
I found, very focused and specific. The game as a whole does nothing for
me. If you're willing to take the game as a whole, obviously you don't
need to worry about how much you can get out of the smaller pieces. I am
now almost 100 percent convinced that I will never just take a game as a
whole. It has not happened yet and I doubt it ever will. I did not expect
Aberrant to be generic - I did, however, expect the setting to interest me
enough to want to conceptually explore it further, as Trinity did. It
didn't.
There were some other problems: the theme was uninteresting, the factions
were uninspired, and there were no ideas or systems for supporting
baseline characters in the game. But this was just icing on the cake. I
could have kludged up the baseline stuff and rewritten the factions and
dug a new theme out of some novel somewhere if the rest of the book had
contained enough to salvage the game for me. Most of my Trinity writing,
for example, has focused on baselines despite the line's insistence on
devoting well over half of the setting material to psions - there is
enough stuff in the game that I feel as if I am supplementing it and not
grossly rewriting it (er, in most cases). That solid
I've-got-to-keep-this-and-think-about-it-some-more material was lacking in
Aberrant.
This is all absolutely a matter of taste and has a lot to do with what I
look for in games, which is apparently terribly out of step with what
everyone else in the world looks for in games these days. That, however,
is the proverbial other story.
Justin Achilli
cor...@chronic.lpl.arizona.edu (Jason Corley) wrote:
> I imagine people who are not as picky about their setting elements will
> like Aberrant's just fine.
I like Aberrant's setting elements and I'm _very_ picky about such things.
Hmm.
Regards,
Justin
--
[Justin R. Achilli]
[Vampire: The Masquerade Developer]
[White Wolf Game Studio]
[jach...@white-wolf.com - www.white-wolf.com]
"It doesn't matter what you think!"
-- The Rock
Sidhain
skim of it I'd personally make the power create exact duplicates of the PC,
except they don't have quantum pools isntead everything they do that cost
quantum sucks quantum from the PC, and he pays 1 point per clone to keep
them up and running each round.
But why should I have to fix a power called Clone? Why is it called that if
it really doesn't create clones?
Jason Corley
: In article <7tlk3v$ddj$1...@news.ccit.arizona.edu> ,
: cor...@chronic.lpl.arizona.edu (Jason Corley) wrote:
: > I imagine people who are not as picky about their setting elements will
: > like Aberrant's just fine.
: I like Aberrant's setting elements and I'm _very_ picky about such things.
Yup - I misspoke meself. People who do not approach settings with the idea
that they are going to break it down into little pieces and pick out the
best ones are going to be more likely to enjoy Aberrant's setting than
those who do.
Marizhavashti Kali
Jason Corley wrote:
>
> : I like Aberrant's setting elements and I'm _very_ picky about such things.
>
> Yup - I misspoke meself. People who do not approach settings with the idea
> that they are going to break it down into little pieces and pick out the
> best ones are going to be more likely to enjoy Aberrant's setting than
> those who do.
Really?
I've been breaking Aberrant and Trinity into little pieces so as to pick
out those parts I like the best.
I don't usually discuss it on newsgroups or mailing lists because people
get all offended and stuff.
nightrid
> >overall problem. I wanted a low Intelligence character who had always wanted
> >to be smart, in fact he wanted to be smarter than the really smart people
> >who were sometimes mean to him. I gave him Intelligence 1, Mega-Intelligence
> >1. According to the rules he should be more intelligent than any baseline
> >ever was. Yet a 5 Intelligence human can roll more successes on a given task
> >than this 'super-genius'.
>
> (Right now he's the smartest moron on the planet, just like a Str 1, Mega
> Str 1 is the strongest weakling on the planet...) Don't forget that during
> the eruption you can gain attributes and skills as well as mega-atts and
> powers.
Something else we are experimenting with, useing the automatic success's of mega
streangth for any mega attributte. Just a thought, i hope it works.
nightrider
nightrid
Aaron Peori wrote:
> Erik Stutzman wrote:
> I think that's a restraint of space and a theme decision.
> They haven't revealed all the secrets of Taint but I'm sure
> as the game goes along they will reveal more.
But they did mention it.
> (shrug) The only level 1 power I see consitently bought is
> Claws.
Strange, no one in my group has took that one yet.
> Maybe, but again the time factor come in. Plus you would
> need to get research and production materials, conduct
> experiments to make sure it works. (Player: What do you mean
> I forgot to test it? My character is infalliable! ST:
> <helpless laughter>) A major corp would find it hard to
> conduct this research without Utopia finding out pretty fast
> (when it has Telepaths and Mega-Manipulators it does that).
> Also while being a member of a criminal cartel will afford
> you a greater freedom it also has more of a hazard
> associated. More than likely your research is totally secret
> so you are probably working with substandard equipment, your
> bosses -will- demand results so you will have to rush
> through critical testing phases and procedural work thus
> allowing flaws and lemons to work their way into the
> finished product, and if this does come into the light of
> day then Utopia is going to crack down on the cartel -hard-
> so they won't be able to invest all that much of their
> resources into black tech development because as it is they
> are struggling to survive. No, more likely the contribution
> of criminal cartels to the black tech trade is providing you
> with a market (whether you want it or not possibly).
Most of this was solved by my second character with mega-int, a couple of
mental prodigy enhancements (notably science (for chemistry, physics) and
engineering) and a couple of levels in moulecular manipulation. She doesn't
have to spend will power on making things permenent, she just roles her
chemistry or metalurgy skill during the creation proccess. She's just using her
power to short cut all the expences that go into building a lab, and
contracting out for special items. Besides which, the goverment most
deffinetly would not have substanderd facialities.
> >
> > I wouldn't mind if the world information covered different stuff. > After
> > reading the 90+ pages my impression was 'Our world with supers'.
> > Nothing about seemed particularly interesting. A few pages on legal
> > systems, for example, gives me more info about the setting than a 4
> > page spread on two 'Xtreme nova wrestlers'.
>
> (shrug) Mass market appear. Unless you missed the
> similarties between "Stone Badass Stryker" and a certain
> star of the WWF who shall remain nameless? The fact is that
> wreslting is very popular now so that was put in to appeal
> to the fans. I'm just surprised their was no other trash TV
> references within N! ("Transvestites Erupt and become actual
> women! One the next Springer!").
Something I just thought abought, when the did the stats on Duke "core" Baron
p44, and Raoul Orzaiz p93. What in the hell did all those stats mean????
Offence, Defence, Versitility!!!! Surely I didn't miss a section of the book
that big did I.
Not bloody likely, we where dealing with the legal aspects of clone within 1
hour of our fist game. First, we said that clone didn't lose any stats. The
only diffence was the clone couldn't make clones himself. So the first combat,
he's got 3 clones out and prontly gets killed. Has a joke, my GM said that the
3 clones each gained enough power to make their bodies permenent by expanding a
permenent willpower point. All 3 did of course, and my freind liked the
characters backround enough that he asked to take over 1 of the clones as his
new character, sans the clone power of course. All was well, we finished the
battle and the story ended, or so we thought. It seems that 1 of the clones
devoloped a desire to explore his darker emotions (evil twin here anyone) while
the other one also devoloped an attachement to the origanals backround. Now
we're dealing with child custiady case, as well as multiple spouse criminal
charges on the wife. Pay, employment, and insurance issues. Not to mention
which one owns what (my house, no it's mine). This all game out in the first
night of play. Of course none of it is as bad has my charecter rolling 14 1s
and a 3 on 15 dice (he died a very messy death).
Also, I'd say the tried to keep it secret, but to many nova's went outside
utopia for employment. Plus, someone is going to just plain out figure it out.
As for the legal issues in keeping them in jail, that wouldn't take long at
all. And you'd have charges of cruel and unusuall punishment (it's my mind,
they had no right to make me not want to rape people), what about the nova on a
jury, expecially 1 who can read minds, can a police nova get a warrent to read
your mind? These are things that would have to be dealt with, and not
neccesarly in the most logical manner. In california, it's illegal to shoot a
whale from a moving car, honest, so the laws dealing with novas would be just
as bad and contridictary as laws are in real life.
nightrider
Robin Lim
Aaron Peori <tz...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:37FE9808...@ns.sympatico.ca...
>
> True enough. I came up with a new version which goes like
> this: Each success can produce one Clone. For every Clone
> created you must spend 1 Quantum Point. Every Clone loses
> one die of all traits. HOWEVER, you can spend Quantum Points
> to counter this. For every point you spend you can raise the
> Clones Traits by 1 back up to your maximums. Thus if you
> wanted to create one perfect Clone it costs 2 Quantum
> Points, if you wanted to create 6 it costs 12 and so on.
> ssentially you just double the Quantum per Clone cost and
> that should maintain game balance.
You know, I've been doing some thinking about the matter, and I think Clones
should lose stamina and health levels. After all, it's a standard
comic-book convention that the larger the crowd, the easier it is to beat up
the individual. I'm going to have to fine-tune this a little bit.
Rob
Nana Yaw Ofori
says...
> >go beyond 5 in low gravity but doesn't become Mega. Perhaps
> >the Nova is special because they have subconcious Quantum
> >control and even if they don't have Mega-Strength the body
> >finds it easy to emulate it once out of a standard gravity
> >field.
>
> strength. In low gravity, jumping and lifting will be easier
> (proportionate to the reduction in gravity).
>
> Low gravity will NOT make it easier to punch through steel doors or
> throw a baseball any harder (although you *could* throw it farther).
> At least not significantly so (you may get tiny improvements for not
> having to support your own weight or the weight of objects you are
> flinging around). These things are controlled by mass and material
> properties, and have NOTHING to do with the gravitational field you're
> in.
>
> Keep in mind if you are standing in zero-g, and quickly heft some
> heavy object over your head, you must quickly decide between two
> options:
>
> 1) Let go.
And if you do, you'll wind up drifting in the opposite direction you
moved the object, and probably spinning slowly too, if you weren't
careful enough to shove it directly away from your center of mass.
>
> 2) Go flying off into space with whatever object you have just lifted.
Well, actually, no, this won't happen if you don't let the object go.
If you're floating in a spaceship, stationary relative to the spaceship
and the heavy object, and you reach out and grab the heavy object, and
"lift it", the exact same force you exert on the object will be exerted
back on you, and you'll start moving in the oposite direction that you
moved the object. Bring the object to a stop relative to yourself (by not
letting it go), and you'll stop drifting.
However, if you aren't /very/ careful about how you bring that load to
a stop, you'll be spinning when you do.
Aaron Peori
> I think there's some confusion about the effects of gravity on
> strength. In low gravity, jumping and lifting will be easier
> (proportionate to the reduction in gravity).
Yes, we know. So do the designers at Weight Wolf. They admit
this. The mechanics is a fudge for the sake of convience.
----------------
Epsilon
The Livewire
> Yes, we know. So do the designers at Weight Wolf. They admit
> this. The mechanics is a fudge for the sake of convience.
Hmm weight wolf? Since we're talking about low gravity, shouldn't that be Mass
wolf?
> ----------------
> Epsilon
The Livewire
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Jason Corley
: Jason Corley wrote:
: >
: > : I like Aberrant's setting elements and I'm _very_ picky about such things.
: >
: > Yup - I misspoke meself. People who do not approach settings with the idea
: > that they are going to break it down into little pieces and pick out the
: > best ones are going to be more likely to enjoy Aberrant's setting than
: > those who do.
: Really?
: I've been breaking Aberrant and Trinity into little pieces so as to pick
: out those parts I like the best.
Well, duh, you already /said/ you liked different things in games than I
do. The parts I wanted to keep from Aberrant were not very broad and gave
me no real basis for running a game.
: I don't usually discuss it on newsgroups or mailing lists because people
: get all offended and stuff.
Only if they have tremendously thin skin and that's hardly my fault.
Geoffrey Brent
<37FCF22C...@teleport.com>...
> > There's certainly worse out there, and some of it's
> > crummy enough that I don't buy it, don't play it, and
> > don't frequent the relevant newsgroups. But of the
> > games that I think are _good_, and worth my time
> > to begin with, the ones that I think could most
> > benefit from a bit more attention to editing and basic
> > factual accuracy* are WW's.
>
> Another straw man. The recent books have had quite a bit more factual
> accuracy than I think a great many people are willing to give credit for
> - Ends of Empire, Great War, Children of the Night, Cainite Heresy,
> Wolves of the Sea, etc all have quite a good base. Many have fairly good
> editing out there.
<shrug> May well be. I haven't been reading that
much new gaming material lately, for one reason
and another, so I can't comment on those. The
only three I've bought recently were VRev, GtC
and GtS; the first two were pretty good, and so
was much of GtS, but I got the impression nobody
had actually grammar-checked chapter 6.
> I didn't say that. I never said there was no reason to try to do better
> - I try to do my best when I write, and I don't always succeed, but I
> work at it. My point is that WW's editing "follies" are overemphasized
> time and again to the point of eclipsing some of the good material out
> there.
I hardly think it's being 'eclipsed'. There are plenty of
people willing to pipe up and mention WW's good
points, and the simple volume of posts on these
newsgroups that are _not_ complaints about WW
should serve as an indicator of that.
> The "fact-checking" comment is even worse - it implies none ever
> happens, when in point of fact, quite a lot of it's been going into
> books.
I'll take your word for the more recent ones. It's _not_
been the case previously.
> Yes, there are some odd things in some books, but does it really affect
> anyting if the Thames is mentioned as flowing the wrong way? Probably
> not. It certainly says nothing about the supplement's quality.
Actually, it does. It suggests that knowledgeable
British locals didn't play much of a part in the
supplement's production, which IMHO is a failing.
(Apart from anything else, if the writers don't know
enough background to get that sort of fact correct,
it suggests that they're probably missing a lot of
the _interesting_ RL background points too.)
Besides which, I'm not really that interested in
nitpicking about which way the Thames flows.
It's a relatively minor factual mistake. For the
_major_ mistakes, read the 'Portuguese is not
Spanish' thread on rpg.net. I do consider it a
major mistake when WW's authors put out an
entire book set in Brazil, apparently without
having done as much as look up an encyclopaedia
entry on the country to get a basic overview (things
like 'what language the locals speak') are worth
knowing.
Another book ('A World of Darkness' 1st Ed) tried
to add some local colour to the writeup of Australia
by casting a local gangland identity from the 1930s
as the current Prince of Sydney, IIRC. Call me old-
fashioned, but I feel that if you're going to use real
people to add colour it's worth checking at least
the basic facts of their life, if for no reason than to
look for interesting RL events that could be worked
into the fictional setting. When the author can't even
get the character's _sex_ right, this suggests poor
research.
Mercifully this clanger was fixed for 2nd Edition, but
promptly replaced by another one involving Argentina.
I don't think it's too much to ask that anybody writing
about a RL country should at least read an
encyclopaedia entry on the place first, and anybody
writing about a RL person should do enough research
to know what gender they are.
You'll no doubt observe that all the books I'm commenting
on are several years old; I'm afraid I got rather cynical
about WW's setting-books after that, and stopped buying
them.
> > Quality is not a binary property, with the two
> > choices "worth reading" and "not worth reading".
> > It comes in quite a few shades of both. WW games
> > are, on the whole, "worth reading", but I'd like to
> > see them move to a _higher_ level of "worth reading"
> > and I think it's quite possible for them to do so. (In
> > fact, I _know_ it's possible; VRev, for one, is a
> > shining example of good editing from WW.
>
> It's not the only one. Unfortunately, you'll also find people who
> declare it worthless for two typos on the back cover.
<shrug> At least it wasn't on the spine :-)
> I think that in many more cases than VRev, WW books have moved to a
> higher level of "worth reading," and quite a few people failed to
> notice. Dunno why, I guess they're still mired in first edition
> perceptions.
I never saw 1st Ed Mage, Werewolf or Vampire, and
didn't take much interest in 1st Ed Changeling (not
for editing reasons, it just wasn't my cup of tea) so
I don't think that applies to me.
Geoffrey Brent