Pierre Savoie for KotM: Some Evidence
Robin Laws
Recap: Pierre [Drac] Savoie has alienated an entire group of
people who ought to agree with his desire to defend roleplaying
games from anti-gaming crusaders -- roleplayers themselves,
as represented by readers of rec.games.frp.misc.
He has done so by insisting that all Christians are a party to
anti-gaming... or something like that. His anti-anti-gamer
screeds seem to be fuelled by strident atheism. Pierre's
contribution to cross-belief system solidarity has been dramatic:
atheists and believers of several faiths have teamed up to
slap the "K" on his forehead.
Like any net.kook worthy of the name, Pierre's postings and
the inevitable rebuttals to them have taken up a big chunk
of postings to the group, prompting many complaints from
the uninterested.
But enough of the precis. Let's go direct to the source material:
some primo Pierre, just from the last few days.
Here, in a splendid display of nut.logic, he says that Christian
gamers should renounce their Christianity if any Christians
attack the roleplaying hobby.
Subject: You are religious, 'n.s.
From: dr...@wbb.com
>>> I told you in private and I repeat it here: if you are religious
there is a big remote control on your mind that is stored in some church
basement somewhere or in the house of the Pope. You are only half a
human being because of it and I would rather talk to the entity in
charge than the empty shell.
Furthermore you HAVE to recognize that Christianity is a big problem
to D&D fans. If ANY of its branch plants sets itself in opposition to
our hobby, gamers should walk away from it, or even do more, in
retaliation to it. <<<<
Also worth of note is that Pierre, like many who combine atheism
with kookery, uses the religious imagery in a positively sermon-like
manner.
>>> Who SAYS we have to be
misrepresented up and down in society and then turn the other cheek?
That's not OUR trip as gamers...but as for avoiding bearing false
witness, we can force Christian groups to live by what they preach.<<<
---------------------------------------
Subject: Carrie the Bitch
From: dr...@wbb.com
This one combines nasty misogyny with the conviction that
his cause is the only important one.
CA>Carrie S.
>>> Listen, you little bitch, you are hardly a credit to female gamers
trying to get into the hobby with talk like that. What I am talking
about: anti-D&D perceptions in society, is not a peripheral issue
that can be kicked off even .misc, it is a **KEY** issue that affects
how we can practice our hobby around the great wide world. <<<
I love this tagline, by the way:
>>> þ SLMR 2.1 þ >8===:) DRACONIAN & his evil anti-matter twin (:===8<<<
If this is the _good_ twin, I shudder to think about the evil one!
----
Subject: Censorship talk?
From: dr...@wbb.com
Okay, now for a some high-quality net.loonery. This one gives
us
a) the utter megalomania required for any true KotM
RO>was a end to continuing pointless debate with him. If that's
RO>censorship, then I want 50 people to have pointless debates with me, to
RO>further the fulfillment of MY constituional rights to have people argue
>>>Talking about me in the third person, Roymeo? I'm here. Talk to my
face. The fact is: I have things to say which are novel, in-depth,
five steps ahead of anything other gamers have thought about. They have
to read several books just to understand what I'm talking about:
dracopolitics.<<<
(_Several_ books!! I love it!)
and
b) the piece de resistance of kookery, that which makes Pierre
a unique.net.kook -- his belief that TSR, the largest roleplaying
company in the business, actually _encourages_ anti-gaming
forces.
>>>The fact that D&D has an extremely bad public reputation
is only vaguely perceived by most gamer fans, who feel they're somehow
not involved, that it's TSR's problem. Of course, when evidence mounts
that TSR helped to foment the problem, gamers should start to wonder.<<<
-----
And of course, no net.kook is quite complete without garden
variety anti-semitism. Here he blasts a Jewish poster for daring
to challenge his suggestion that anti-gaming propaganda is not
quite on the same scale of injustice as the Holocaust. Yep, bonus points
to Pierre for originally invoking the Holocaust.
More bonus points for the creative use of "we"; of course,
even those on the group who consider anti-gaming forces a
real threat have openly labelled Pierre a kook.
And the big 50 bonus point award for wacky assertion of
the month goes to Pierre for the claim that only Arabs can
be anti-Semites. Or maybe that only Arabs are Semites,
it's hard to say. Either way, it's choice.
Subject: Re: Troll?
From: dr...@wbb.com
>>> We weren't too impressed by your exhaustive Jewish essay in
.misc trying to bludgeon us with the need to shut up about gamer
oppression in the face of a horrifying problem...that was ended 50
years ago. You seemed awfully shocked that you could wave your
Jewish side-burns in the air and nobody would fall down and worship
you, and accused me of anti-Semitism (a term only properly applied to
Arabic peoples) for pointing out that the Jewish Holocaust was OVER.
Well, that's how it's going to be; new forms of activism for
the modern age. <<<
Yes, indeedy, and Pierre's modern activism is clearly a crusade for
net.kook status. I can't think of a candidate who is more
aggressively pursuing the honor.
Join us in rec.games.frp.misc for more high-quality gibbering
from Pierre Savoie! A gem in nearly every post!
Vote Savoie!
Shawn Metcalf
> I love this tagline, by the way:
>
> >>> ş SLMR 2.1 ş >8===:) DRACONIAN & his evil anti-matter twin (:===8<<<
>
> If this is the _good_ twin, I shudder to think about the evil one!
Naw, Drac's twin (hereby dubbed "Skippy") is probably pretty cool. Drac
just thinks that Skip is the evil one.
--
Shawn Metcalf DeadB...@aol.com
CEO, Omni Gaming Products
Bruce Baugh
:Recap: Pierre [Drac] Savoie has alienated an entire group of
:people who ought to agree with his desire to defend roleplaying
:games from anti-gaming crusaders -- roleplayers themselves,
:as represented by readers of rec.games.frp.misc.
Mighty impressive sample quotes, Robin; I'm off to see the carnage for myself.
Thanks for the reference!
___________bruceab@teleport.com______http://www.teleport.com/~bruceab/_________
Host of Christlib, the mailing list for Christian and/or libertarian discussion
E-mail me for info, or get info from http://www.teleport.com/~bruceab/xlib.html
"Proclaim liberty throughout all the land to all its inhabitants."
The Spaceman
Bruce Baugh <bru...@teleport.com> wrote:
>In article <3jsfob$7...@ionews.io.org>, Robin Laws <r...@io.org> wrote:
>
>:Recap: Pierre [Drac] Savoie has alienated an entire group of
>:people who ought to agree with his desire to defend roleplaying
>:games from anti-gaming crusaders -- roleplayers themselves,
>:as represented by readers of rec.games.frp.misc.
>
Gotta agree with this one. Vote drac the dip for KotM!
--
The Spaceman |Life's a jest and all things show it
spa...@u.washington.edu |I so once thought, but now I know it
sev...@u.washington.edu | John Gay
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~spaced/spaceman.html
Jeff Scott Franzmann
that he's ever tried to bring up in his posts.
Drac for Kook of the Month
-Jeff Franzmann
--
Brian Christopher Misiaszek
>From: Robin Laws <r...@io.org>
>Recap: Pierre [Drac] Savoie has alienated an entire group of
>people who ought to agree with his desire to defend roleplaying
>games from anti-gaming crusaders -- roleplayers themselves,
>as represented by readers of rec.games.frp.misc.
[much snipped]
>Like any net.kook worthy of the name, Pierre's postings and
>the inevitable rebuttals to them have taken up a big chunk
>of postings to the group, prompting many complaints from
>the uninterested.
> >>> Listen, you little bitch, you are hardly a credit to female gamers
>trying to get into the hobby with talk like that. What I am talking
>about: anti-D&D perceptions in society, is not a peripheral issue
>that can be kicked off even .misc, it is a **KEY** issue that affects
>how we can practice our hobby around the great wide world. <<
>>>>Talking about me in the third person, Roymeo? I'm here. Talk to my
>face. The fact is: I have things to say which are novel, in-depth,
>five steps ahead of anything other gamers have thought about. They have
>to read several books just to understand what I'm talking about:
>dracopolitics.<<<
[and even more snipped]
>Yes, indeedy, and Pierre's modern activism is clearly a crusade for
>net.kook status. I can't think of a candidate who is more
>aggressively pursuing the honor.
>Join us in rec.games.frp.misc for more high-quality gibbering
>from Pierre Savoie! A gem in nearly every post!
>Vote Savoie!
Here's my vote/blackened pot shard.
On reflection, his is an achievement of staggering proportions.
Not only has Drac (alias Pierre Savoie) alienated the entire gaming community
of metropolitan Toronto with his words and behavior, he is repeating this
performance on a planetary scale. Bravo, Drac, bravo!
All going to prove the more pithier definition of the Peter Principle, that
crap always rises to the top of the bowl.
::Brian::
Mitchell J. Gross
Wow, I didn't even know we Jews COULD wave our sideburns in the air. I'll
have to work on that. BTW, we Jews (and our sideburns) have a word for
people like drac.
Schmuck.
>Yes, indeedy, and Pierre's modern activism is clearly a crusade for
>net.kook status. I can't think of a candidate who is more
>aggressively pursuing the honor.
I definitely agree with Robin. Vote yes!
Anyway we can stuff the ballot box? Or is drac doing that on his own?
-`---,---'-,---`---`--'--,--`-'-,--`--'--,---`--'-,--`-'-,--,-'-`--'-,-`--,---
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http://www.io.com/user/mjg/visionary/
ftp.indiana.edu/pub/doc/camarila/Visionary/
Column Editor - Luminary Magazine (please email press releases)
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Anthony Ragan
m...@pentagon.io.com (Mitchell J. Gross) writes:
>
>I definitely agree with Robin. Vote yes!
>
>Anyway we can stuff the ballot box? Or is drac doing that on his own?
I don't think stuffing will be necessary -- the quality of Drac's
Kookness outshines all others I've seen on alt.kook. He really
is non pareil.
And, you know, I suspect he hasn't yet reached his best form.....
Go away Drac. (with a nod to Carrie)
--Anthony
ecz...@mvs.oac.ucla.edu -OR- Iris...@aol.com
Rune Chia Pet of Ernalda, Snotling in Chief
Douglas L. Vandenburgh
: I don't think stuffing will be necessary -- the quality of Drac's
: Kookness outshines all others I've seen on alt.kook. He really
: is non pareil.
I disagree, most heartily. In fact, it is my belief that the ballot
box, chock full of KotM votes, should be stuffed in some terribly
appropriate orifice on Drac. :)
- Doug
John P. Raynor
: Hey, lets not forget his shoddy research into every historical period
:
: Drac for Kook of the Month
:
: -Jeff Franzmann
Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if he was the bastard spawn of Doctress
Neutopia and John ("The UFOs are Coming!") Winston.
Geoffrey C Grabowski
John P. Raynor <jra...@minerva.cis.yale.edu> wrote:
>I wouldn't be surprised if he was the bastard spawn of Doctress Neutopia
Is she still roaming free, spreading her own brand of Orwellian
Utopia to everyone who'll listen, or has she given up her mad quest?
You know, I'd almost forgotten about her. *shudder*. Yeah, Drac
gets mine for KotM.
ObRPG:
Neutopia would probabally make an excellent villian, with a little
careful remodelling, esp. for, say, OtE (same ideals, maybe a little
stability and competance, but maybe not as a Bennie or Cloak). If she's
got nothing else, she's got a name that, to me, evokes American Slipsteam
Moderne, movie theatres that look like rayguns, and the hair of the Bride
of Frankenstein, but with lucite sandals and a toga.
G.
--
--Geoffrey C. Grabowski|gcg...@pitt.edu|Undergrad, U.Pittsburgh|Swing Heil!
--[O] "Specialization is for insects" - Heinlein
--[O] "b) Four words: pez, whips, Uma Thurman" - Nameless
--[O] "It don't mean a thing if you ain't got that swing" - Swing Kids
Bill Seurer
Sorry, but Drac can't begin to compare with Mr. Winston. I still remember
quite fondly the proof he sent me that the little light on smoke
detectors was actually a camera monitored by the government (it MUST be
since the gov. requires them!) and that the new requirement for closed
captioning circuitry in TVs was actually just a way for the government
to slip in some more sophisticated monitoring equipment.
--
- Bill Seurer Language and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
Business: BillS...@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillS...@aol.com
Carrie A Schutrick
And it's got something drac never dreamed of--it's got proof! It's not
just saying "drac's a nut;" it gives examples of his nuttiness! Did you
read the one in which he claims all females are "newcomers" to RPG's?
It under the "Carrie the Bitch" thread, I believe.
Carrie S.
Stephen McNeil
clueless," sweepingly insulting the entire role-playing population of the UK;
his adamant (and completely irrelevant) assertion that 9 million witches have
been burned by Christians, despite the fact that his only source (a book
debunking the myths of Satanism) listed the wholly unsupported figure as
"between 2 and 9 million"; and the most recent gem:
>If Carrie starts to use derogatory language then I certainly don't have
>to restrain myself any more. Enough. We don't need newcomer gamers (as
>all females are) to go about criticizing the pioneers of the movement.
So we can merrily add blatant misogyny to the charges, your honor.
Stephen McNeil
UBC Chemistry Dept
mcn...@chem.ubc.ca
Peter Hentges
Did you
> read the one in which he claims all females are "newcomers" to RPG's?
> It under the "Carrie the Bitch" thread, I believe.
And in the same breath lays claim to being a "pioneer" of the hobby.
Classic.
-Peter Hentges [O]
-peter_...@ccmgate.adc.com [O]
-JBRU [O]
Jo Walton
Certainly. And don't let us forget that it is not just Christianity and Judaism
he has attacked but:
The right to say what you want in your .sig - he suggested someone should be
tossed off the net having a .sig saying "I love God, friends, family..." and
some more things, including pizza???.
Buddhists - there is an evil Buddhist conspiracy too.
He also said that 9 million witches were burned for roleplaying - or am I
getting a little confused?
Kook of the Year, if you ask me.
--
Jo
**************************************************************
- - I kissed a kif at Kefk - -
**************************************************************
Help me run the Galactic Empire at Confabulation, Easter 1995
**************************************************************
John P. Raynor
: In article <3jvonj$d...@news.ycc.yale.edu>,
: John P. Raynor <jra...@minerva.cis.yale.edu> wrote:
:
: >I wouldn't be surprised if he was the bastard spawn of Doctress Neutopia
:
: Is she still roaming free, spreading her own brand of Orwellian
: Utopia to everyone who'll listen, or has she given up her mad quest?
: You know, I'd almost forgotten about her. *shudder*. Yeah, Drac
: gets mine for KotM.
Oh, yes...Doctress Neutopia is now has her very own newsgroup, called
"Alt.Society.Neutopia." In practice, however, Alt.Society.Neutopia
exists solely for the convenience of those who enjoy making fun of her
bizarre "Stalin in tie-dye" ideology. Check it out.
- J. Raynor
James Wallis
> Hey, lets not forget his shoddy research into every historical period
> that he's ever tried to bring up in his posts.
And, of course, the quintessentially kooky way he:
(a) Refuses to back up his outlandish claims, despite using the
word "evidence" over and over again;
(b) Assumes that if someone is arguing with him--or even asking
him a question--that they are part of The Enemy;
(c) Misinterprets everything;
(d) Will not answer a direct question;
(e) Has random "cute" messages in his .sig file.
Kook of the month? Drac's the kook of the decade!
--
James Wallis
Director of Hogshead Publishing <> Any statements and sentiments in
(ja...@hogshead.demon.co.uk) <> <> this post should not be taken as
Writing in a personal capacity <> opinions of Hogshead Publishing.
Justine Rogers
Like the addition to my .sig?
--
"A small boring constellation with no interesting features" "I am a figment of
my own imagination" "But Officer, its only a supermoronic Drac."
Meaningless quotes and beliefs brought to you by: jus...@pepin.demon.co.uk
James Steel
some sort
of lifetime acheivement award instead.
This is not a .sig
Peter Hentges
> And, of course, the quintessentially kooky way he:
>
> (a) Refuses to back up his outlandish claims, despite using the
> word "evidence" over and over again;
Latest case-in-point, our own kooky drac wrote:
> Every new trend that is now common, such as computers, computer
> BBSes, and role-playing games were started by males, young males.
> What's sexist about telling the truth about reality? In all these
> things, women are just "camp followers" who have yet to make a valid
> contribution.
Ah, if only my site carried alt.usenet.kooks...
Peter Hentges
anti-gay because, after all, he only initiated one political action
against a gay organization, posts the following (with a quote from
another for reference):
> JE>But "gamer" isn't what we are, "gamer" is what we do. How do we get
> JE>from that to being a Minority Group? Does that mean that gardeners,
> JE>model-railroad enthusiasts and painters, lets say, are also
> JE>"minority groups"?
>
> That argument doesn't really hold. After all, homosexuality isn't what
> they are, it's what they DO. Otherwise there's no "ethnic" character to
> them either.
Voting in absentia...
Lea Crowe
to a post, making it difficult both to track his arguments or to kill
his threads.
But then, since his articles are usually irrelevant to the post he's
replying to, maybe that's not so kooky after all.
--
l...@hestia.demon.co.uk Ka ao, ka ao, ka awatea!
Alan Bostick
In article <795201...@hogshead.demon.co.uk>,
ja...@hogshead.demon.co.uk (James Wallis) wrote:
[descriptions of his view of Pierre Savoie's kookery]
Come on; that's just hearsay.
Your description of him sure *sounds* kooky. But unless you (or someone)
crossposts or forwards to alt.usenet.kooks more of his *contemporary*
kooky posts, he's just not going to get my vote.
For me right now it's a tossup between Michael Falkner's ongoing
flamefest and and Al Silverman's neverending battle against the forces
of the Ancient Theorist. Pierre Savoie has got a lot of catching up to
do if he is to top these.
(But I must admit -- your description is promising!)
Alan Bostick | "Every effort was made to make this book as
abos...@netcom.com | pedantic and obtuse as possible, and, may I
finger for PGP public key | say in all modesty, I think we succeeded
| admirably." -- William Masters, on his and
Key fingerprint: | Virginia Johnson's HUMAN SEXUAL RESPONSE
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NadaYaj
> Do you realize what Atheism SAVES you from? A lifetime of
>peer-pressure, an enslaving belief in mysterious, hidden beings who
>aren't really there, freedom from any economic obligation, or freedom
>from self-censorship of your own mental processes. Look up what
>"salvation" means in a dictionary. I think it applies. I'm surprised
>that the process of a culture progressing from religion to freedom from
>belief isn't portrayed more in a fantasy world.
Nada...
Irina Rempt
(peter_...@ccmgate.adc.com) wrote on Re: Pierre Savoie for KotM: Some Evidence
> Ah, if only my site carried alt.usenet.kooks...
Hey, mine doesn't either. How do I vote? I sent the nomination to
someone who posted about it in another group, but it seems to have
arrived.
Irina
--
to be found on a.b.d., r.a.b.c., r.a.sf.w., a.f.p., r.g.f.d.,
r.g.f.m., r.g.f.a., r.g.r.n., r.f.c., m.k., s.l., s.l.t., s.c.,
c.s.p. ************ My other computer is a Psion ************
Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y
>Another example of Drac's Kookism...
>
>
>> Do you realize what Atheism SAVES you from? A lifetime of
[snippety snip]
No, this is just about the first thing I've seen from drac that makes sense.
Dammit, like most of the best kooks in the world, his kookism is actually
organized around a tiny core of sanity and good ideas. Sort of like the way
clams form pearls around small irritating grains of fluff, except in reverse.
--
Leif ("ignore my last name, can't spell it in ascii anyway")
GM d- H s++:++ g++(-) p10+ !au a- w+++ v C++ US P? L 3- E N++ K++ W-- M !V
-po+ Y+ t-- !5 !j R++ G'' tv b+++ D+ B--- e+ u+(*) h f+(?) r-(*) !n(+) y?
Everything is temporary.
Mitchell J. Gross
>Yes, but if we're going to sway the hardened kook-hunters
>of alt.usenet.kooks, we're going to have to _cross-post_
>the evidence of his kookiness to that newsgroup. _We_
>all know Pierre is a certified cashew. Now we must spread
>the gospel of his wackiness. There's stiff competition
>this month, y'know.
This was posted on rec.games.frp.misc and belongs here as well. :)
I vote yes btw!
----------
Article: 63614 of rec.games.frp.misc
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From: mcn...@chem.ubc.ca (Stephen McNeil)
Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
Subject: Mr. Savoie's arguments: A Summary
Date: Sat, 18 Mar 95 02:53:48 GMT
Organization: The University of British Columbia
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Okay, let's sum up.
Mr. Savoie is imploring us to open our eyes to the conspiracy, to the fact
that the Christians are coming to take our gamebooks and our dice, and to ship
us off to Hartgrove Hospital for RPG deprogramming.
His evidence? Well, during his stay with us, he has brought up a few major
points he wishes us to know about. I'm working mostly from memory, here, but
I'm sure any errors on my part will be pointed out by Mr. Savoie in his usual
calm and rational fashion. (Those of you with sarcasm meters will note that
they just sprang off the scale.)
Point number one. After attending an anti-D&D seminar given by Patricia
Pulling, founder of BADD, a man went home, confronted his son about the game
(the son was either 16 or 20 years old at the time, this got a little
confused), and abused him (the exact nature of this abuse was also not clearly
established) during the ensuing argument. Aha! Direct evidence of extreme
Christian prejudice against RPGs!
Question for the audience. A father argues with his son about D&D, and abuses
him. Does the father abuse the son because (a) the son plays D&D and Pat
Pulling told the father that D&D is An Evil Thing? Or (b) the father is an
abusive parent who would have found a reason to abuse his child in any case?
I do not claim to be an expert in domestic violence, nor to have a degree in
psychology. Nevertheless, I'm marking (b), and I'm noting that (b) actually
has nothing whatsoever with RPGs, and is thus irrelevant to this forum.
Point number two. A game store in the U.K. was firebombed. Evidence? Umm,
well... Apparently, not one person on the planet has any recollection of this
event, except Mr. Savoie himself, and *his* only recollection is a passing
allusion to the event in a Dragon editorial. Nobody else on the planet
remebers the editorial, either. The bombing of a game store *would* be
relevant to this forum. If it ever actually happens, I'm sure it'll come up.
Point number three. We should all be very, very worried about the Center For
Ritualistic Deviance at Hartgrove Hospital, in Chicago, set up by social
worker Dale Trahan, with the help of cult-cop Jerry Simandl, member of the
Cult Crime Impact Network, a bunch of cops trying to put a stop to Satanic
crimes. (How'm I doing, Pierre?) The CCIN is organized by Christians in
Boise. Therefore, Christian conspiracy! Well, maybe, but they're looking for
Satanists, not gamers. What does that have to do with RPGs? Ah, well, D&D is
(or was, 8 years ago,anyway) something that the members of the CCIN think is
used to recruit young people into Satanic cults, so presumably Dale Trahan at
Hartgrove thinks that, too. So, umm, so there must be Hartgrove Stormtroopers
running around Chicago raiding gaming clubs and hauling GMs and players alike
off to Hartgrove to be cured, right?! Except Trahan *doesn't* think that!
Daniel Holzman called Trahan a few weeks ago, and asked him what he actually
thought. Dale Trahan does *not* think D&D leads to Satanism, has in fact
tried D&D, and in fact enjoyed it. So nobody at Hartgrove cares about RPGs,
they just care about Satanism. Which makes Hartgrove irrelevant, too.
What's left?
Oh, yeah, Catholics burned nine million witches. Except that it wasn't nine,
the book which Savoie quoted actually listed the wholly unfounded figure as
"between two and nine million," but what's the extreme edge of an error bar
between screaming fanatics? The fact that it's complete bull is overshadowed
by the fact that it doesn't have a damn thing to do with RPGs, either.
So we have four major points, none of which are relevant to gaming.
We also have, as ongoing side issues, blind hatred of Christianity, gross
insensitivity to Judiasm, utter disdain for the population of the UK, blatant
misogyny, possible homophobia, and a stunning lack of ability for rational
discourse.
Gee, nothing relevant to gaming there, either!
Thanks for enlightening me, Pierre.
Alan Bostick
In article <3kf60p$j...@pentagon.io.com>,
[remainder of forwarded post ABOUT Pierre Savoie snipped]
Savoie's foes continue to paint a verbal picture of someone who deserves
a KotM award . . . but it still is just a verbal picture.
What we need to see in alt.usenet.kooks is posts *by* Savoie. Forwarded
posts, perhaps, but they must be his own words.
I'm not opposing him for KotM; I just want to satisfy myself that he is
in fact kooky enough to deserve it, rather than taking someone else's
word for it.
Alan Bostick | "Every effort was made to make this book as
abos...@netcom.com | pedantic and obtuse as possible, and, may I
finger for PGP public key | say in all modesty, I think we succeeded
| admirably." -- William Masters, on his and
Key fingerprint: | Virginia Johnson's HUMAN SEXUAL RESPONSE
50 22 FB 46 41 A3 17 9D F7 33 FF E1 4E 1C 89 79 +legal_kludge=off
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Jay Knioum
>In article <3jspde$4...@desiree.teleport.com>,
>Bruce Baugh <bru...@teleport.com> wrote:
>>In article <3jsfob$7...@ionews.io.org>, Robin Laws <r...@io.org> wrote:
> Gotta agree with this one. Vote drac the dip for KotM!
>
>
Drac? Who is this Drac you all keep referring to? :)
jk, bearer of the +10 Killfile Shield