Magic and Technology Question
SETH E SELIGMAN
world to play it in. I wanted something that could blend Magic and technology
fairly well, or at least use technology inspired fantasy elements, aka
spelljammer. My question is would a society who used magic bother to
learn technology? Would they use both equally since one may be better
than the other in certain situations, or would they totally switch to the
new form. In most fantasy worlds, magic is far rarer than technology is
in our world. Any single magic item is worth a great amount, while
technological items for the most part in our society are availiable to
the masses.
Mutant for Hire
Well, the big question becomes, how can you tell the difference. There
are the old sayings about any sufficiently advanced technology being
indistinguishable from magic, and any sufficiently advanced magic being
indistinguishable from technology.
As for magic being where people personally channel strange forces using
the laws of magic (similarity and all that stuff), there is the question
of 1) how many people are able to wield magic and 2) how much magical
power is floating around out there. Science seems to have plenty of
different opportunities for power sources. If magic has plenty of power
sources, and everyone is able to work it to some level, science might
lose out after all.
If it takes years of concentration to be able to cast fireballs, and
someone starts cranking out grenades on a regular basis, then magic
loses. If learning how to cast fireballs is easy, then science loses
as who wants to work at making grenades and then carry around a huge
supply of them?
All sorts of issues. Define how you handle magic, and I might be able
to give you an answer. And how is this magic distinguishable from say
psychic powers which tend to be magic with a pseudoscientific stamp
of approval.
--
Martin Terman, Mutant for Hire, Synchronicity Daemon, Priest of Shub-Internet
Disclaimer: Sticks and stones may break my bones, but flames are just ignored
mfte...@phoenix.princeton.edu mfte...@pucc.bitnet anonym...@charcoal.com
"Sig quotes are like bumper stickers, only without the same sense of relevance"
Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y
There have been, as I am sure you must be aware of, a few games released
already that feature a mixture of high technology and magic. Probably the
most successful one is FASA's Shadowrun, although my favorite setting in
that "genre" is one which is featured in GURPS Time Travel Adventures. (It
is an alternative present, in which magic was released by the first nuclear
bomb test in 1945. Magic, tech, and magitech are used both separately and
together. In that world, there are zones of varying magical strength; in
those with strong magic, old-style tech is becoming less common, as -- for
instance -- fairly large construction projects can be handled by a single or
a few mages specializing in earth-elemental magic....)
Anyway, the most common rationale I've seen for the mix is that magic had been
forgotten for a long period of time (or never existed), thus allowing the
"normal" development of a technological culture, and then some event caused
magic to reappear in the world. Another possibility is having two distinct
cultures, one tech-using and one magic-using, meet each other and
gradually blend together.
Anyway, you'll have to decide how common you want magic to be, and also how
easy you want the manufacture of magical items. Unless magical items can be
produced in bulk, of course most people aren't going to have any, and they
will be very expensive. The main factor in deciding whether people will use
magic more than technology is, I guess, the bottom line: Which costs more for
equivalent results? If you include geographical variations in the
effectiveness of magic, this may well be different from area to area.
--
Leif Kj{\o}nn{\o}y (lei...@kari.fm.unit.no)
"Take your cigarette from its holder, and burn your initials in my shoulder.
Fracture my spine, and swear that you're mine...
as we dance to the masochism tango." (Tom Lehrer)
Ralph Marion Groover III
should watch a movie called "To cast an evil Spell". The setting
was in the 50'2 or 60'. In the movie nearly everyone knew simple
spells[ like lighting a cigerette without alighter ect.] Granted the
tech wasn't high tech, but they blende magic and tech together.
I suggest having a world like today, everybody knows little about everything
but not enough about anything.
****************************************************************************
"His angle was skewed with respect to the rest of reality; one of those
localized anomalies in human skin who always wants to make things
interesting."
["Mindplayers" by Pat Cadigan]
****************************************************************************
--
Ralph M. Groover III
Internet: gt4...@prism.gatech.edu
"Nothing is neither bad nor good, but thinking makes it so"..Hamlet
Jack Dracula
Ralph Marion Groover III <gt4...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote:
>Not mentioning the games which use both magic and technology, you
>should watch a movie called "To cast an evil Spell".
The title is CAST A DEADLY SPELL, was an HBO Movie from a few
years backm, released on video, at Blockbusters everywhere, and
is -great-.
> The setting
>was in the 50'2 or 60'. In the movie nearly everyone knew simple
>spells[ like lighting a cigerette without alighter ect.] Granted the
>tech wasn't high tech, but they blende magic and tech together.
>I suggest having a world like today, everybody knows little about everything
>but not enough about anything.
Well, it was sorta a 40's Mike Hammer detective thing gone
weird. But I mean it, it's a great flick.
>Ralph M. Groover III
>Internet: gt4...@prism.gatech.edu
Jack Dracula
New World Order
John Novak
>If it takes years of concentration to be able to cast fireballs, and
>someone starts cranking out grenades on a regular basis, then magic
>loses. If learning how to cast fireballs is easy, then science loses
>as who wants to work at making grenades and then carry around a huge
>supply of them?
Actually, the real question becomes, "Is it easier/cheaper to
magic a coin to explode, or to mix chemicals and put them in a
grenade?"
Essentially, in a rational society, in the absence of
superstitions and mis (and dis) information, technology tends
toward the most efficient. For the purposes of this discussion,
magic is just another aspect of technology.
--
John S. Novak, III
j...@cegt201.bradley.edu
j...@camelot.bradley.edu
JOHN MARTIN KARAKASH
Magic is a specialized and usually limited skill. Technology
is the magic-poor man's magic! Magic is also a great *multiplier* of
force. If you use a lever to multiply your strength, you can use it
to multiply the strength of magic, also. A steam engine might be
more efficient with a magic boiler than using magic directly to move
the vehicle. And so on...
-john-
Russell Wallace
In a world where magic was powerful and commonplace (e.g. the Age of
Legends in Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time") people wouldn't bother to
develop technology. In a world where it was very rare (e.g. most
fantasy worlds) technology would be developed (though it might
concentrate more on those areas where magic is lacking, e.g. if healing
potions are common and fireball spells are rare, you'll have gunpowder,
but not medicine.)
--
"To summarize the summary of the summary: people are a problem"
Russell Wallace, Trinity College, Dublin
rwal...@cs.tcd.ie
Guy Robinson
: I'm am currently working on my own RPG and I am also working on a game
The simplest way to think about developing technology into a magicial
world is to think about the introduction of the printing press and the
impact it would have on the society.
In fact within most fantasy world it is illogical for technology not
to develop in my humble opinion. What might be the differing factor is
how people view technology, as people have already suggested.
Depending the environment people live in they also with have differing
problems to solve. Magic can do whatever you want it to do so there
may be some obvious short comings of Magic that the populations of
your fantasy world might seek to address.
--
Guy Robinson guy....@rx.xerox.com
[implied disclaimer]
The real meaning of Christmas is a Mid-Winter feast.
LASATER, MARGARET MARIE
with magic added or a fantasy world with a higher level of
technology.
A comment that applies to both. In a world with both magic and technology
fully present, the additive effect will become a factor unless there
is some form of limit. What I am refering to is the combination
of magic and technology. If magic can achive a certain level of
effect and technology a similiar level, then the combination
will be around 1.5x to 2x the level of either seperately. This
can result in unintential game balance problems. An example,
combine a compound bow with a spell to increase the speed of the
arrow, or maybe a flaming arrow spell. Do the same thing to a
gun, how about a cannon. Combine the best armor with spells to
enhance armor. Another example (this one is taken from Shadowrun)
combine the best cybernetic augmentation with the best magicial
augmentation. This can really be a problem in the one group
has magic and the other has technology settings. The PC's, if
they have contact with both groups will get the bright idea
to combine magic and tech unless it is flatly impossible. If
this is not taken into account in games design, a problem
will result.
As far as the relationship between magic and technological
innovation. Although most fantasy systems with magic
assume little technological innovation or progress, this
is not necessarily so. Technological innovation can be
a somewhat haphazard process, with increases, decreases,
reinventions and duplicatons. Magic could even aid if
technological innovation, simply by allowing for a larger
population size in a given area and/or allowing for a
larger percentage of the population to be freed from
providing the resources necessary to maintain society.
If magic were present during technological innovation,
then magic would likely get somewhat incoporated in
the inventions. A magical powered mill for grinding
grain, for example. Could lead to really different
course of societal development.
Margaret
Great Cthulhu
>I'm am currently working on my own RPG and I am also working on a game
>world to play it in. I wanted something that could blend Magic and technology
>fairly well, or at least use technology inspired fantasy elements, aka
>spelljammer. My question is would a society who used magic bother to
>learn technology?
I'll give a qualified YES to this question. The qualifier is that magic must
be fickle or the answer probably becomes NO. Alternatively, if there are some
things that magic simply CANNOT do (I generally don't like restrictions like
this, but they may fit your world), then technology may flourish in a limited
sphere; note, however, that historically ideas from very different branches of
technology have been fused together to give new inventions, so progress will
most likely be significantly slower than in our history in such a case.
--
-Doug Gibson d...@wiffin.chem.ucla.edu
"I didn't like the way he was bleeding, so I made him stop."
-from Mutant League Football
GS d-(+) p-@ c++ !l u++ e+++ m+(-) s+/+ n- h---(*) f+ !g w+ t+ r++ y+
Anders Sandberg
White Wolf. Technology is really just a special kind of magick,
codified and designed for easy use by the masses by the Technomancers.
A computer could as well be said to be a kind of familiar, which is
awakened by turning on the power and originally summoned by assembling
the right talismans (chips) in the right patterns. And so on...
--
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Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension!
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Anders Sandberg Towards Ascension!
nv91...@hemul.nada.kth.se
GCS/M/S/O d++ -p+ c++++ !l u+ e++ m++ s+/+ n--- h+/* f+ g+ w++ t+ r+ !y