RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 24 Aug 1994, part 1
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: kl...@diku.dk
Subject: misc
Message-ID: <1994082307...@rimfaxe.diku.dk>
Date: 23 Aug 94 11:21:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5822
Sultans/Satraps
"""""""""""""""
Isn't that just the translator who has changed his mind about what
the best word is? Somewhat like Mao Tse Tung/Mao Zedong. Who knows
what they are actually called in New Pelorian.
Hyenas
""""""
Someone said that not all hyenas contain parts of Genert. Maybe only
the male ones do? That should make life a lot easier for the Garzeen
worshippers :-).
(For those not on the know: the usual way to sex a spotted hyena is
to palpate the scrotum. Males of course have testicles, females have
lumps of fatty tissue in their false scrotums. These are much softer
than real testicles.)
Teleport
""""""""
ARRRRG! How could I forget Diminish SIZ?
INT is 2d6 + 6. This means 1/12 of the population, and quite possibly
a majority of the wizards, have INT 17+. The Loskalm Transportation
Service needs no matrices.
Moon in Pavis
"""""""""""""
According to Strangers the moon is visible from Pavis. This is in the
wonderful scene where the moonboat arrives.
Klaus O K
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Get the Picture
Message-ID: <01HG9BWRT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 24 Aug 94 04:49:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5823
G'day all,
___________________
A Slight Correction
I wrote:
>*Rupert Murdoch, ex-Australian media magnate and now US citizen, owner
>of such quality papers as "The Sun" (UK) and "The Picture" (Aus), famous
>for its annual $10,000 "Match the Nude Models' Faces to Their Bums"
>competition.
Actually, "Picture" is owned by another Australian media baron, Kerry
"the Goanna" Packer, the man who brought us World Series Cricket (so he's
not all bad).
---------------------
From: JAR...@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Since Convulsion and Divine Magic
Message-ID: <9408230933.AA22921@Sun.COM>
Date: 23 Aug 94 09:35:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5824
Simon Hibbs - I've got bad news for you!
Convulsion was only a month ago so I don't know where you've been
since then if you played in a game several months ago shortly after Convulsion! I suggest that it might be time to leave the hollow hills/ Hero plane!
Alex - Initiates do no have anything to do with regaining divine magic!?!?
While at a theoretical level I have some sympathy with the idea of
a heirarchical system like the PD battle system where the guys at the top
have the most effect on the outcome. In practice I think the is unnecessarily
complex for a PRACTICAL system for regaining Divine Magic. Remember the
initiates are important if 7*7*2 do not turn up then no-one will get their
spells back.
If you want a simple mechanic why don't you add any extra MPs the
congregation expend (over the usual 1) to the Priest's chances of success.
One a success initiates get 1 point of divine magic back, on a special 2
points and on a critical 3 points. On a fumble everyone participating
loses one point permanently! This would make attending a large/great
temple even more attractive as not only would you get a wider choice of
spells you would also have a greater chance of getting more back. Just
imagine the effect of 1000 initiates all donating 7 MPs (+6000%). You
would have to use Steve Maurer's(?) HQ extension to the critical system
giving something like:
Fumble Bloody unlikely
Failure 00
Critical 61+
HyperCrit 12+ 4 points back
ExtraCrit 3+ 5 points back
Something Wonderful on 1or 2 6 points back!
Of course there are very few places where so many initiates are so fanatical.
Most initates have only a couple of points of Divine Magic so they will on
sacrifice 2 to 3 MPs giving a virtually automatic chance of getting their
spells back, unless they are unusually pious. About their only places where
this might happen are the Old Wind Temple and The Block. I suspect the
fanatical devotion of the SBs at the Block allows each initiate to have a
handful of Divine Magic usable once per year which this small cult VERY
EFFECTIVE especially in the vacinity of the Block.
Gosh thats more that I set out to write!
Lewis
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Various bits of Rune Lore...
Message-ID: <01HG9IAGZ...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 24 Aug 94 11:00:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5825
Nick Brooke
-----------
I wrote
>>Antirius never had strong connections to the earth in Dara Happa because
>>the Earth Goddess there was Dendara whereas Ernalda is Elmal's Wife
To which Nick Brooke ejaculates:
>This is God Learner sophistry: useless labels everywhere!
Duh? useless labels? I was trying to establish the the relationship between
Elmal/Antirius/Yelmalio. Joerg wrote that he didn't think that I was correct
in identifying Yelmalio with Antirius because Antirius didn't have strong
connections to the Earth.
For the simple among you: Antirius does not get Rune Spells from Dendara
(assumed). Yelmalio does. How can Yelmalio be Antirius.
This is a perfectly reasonable set of Statements to make. I argued that
Antirius could not develop earth ties with Dendara because (unstated above) She
was remaining faithful to Yelm. Whereas Elmal can and did develop strong earth
ties because he married Ernalda (unstated above) who had no inhibitions about
such a relationship.
Plainspeak: Dendara will not marry Antirius because she mourns for Yelm.
Ernalda will marry Elmal because Orlanths away (strong Lunar bias here freely
admitted).
I then tried to trace a path between Antirius and Yelmalio and Elmal. I think
I have found a satisfactory continuity between Antirius and Yelmalio. It goes
something like this: Antirius goes to the Hills of Gold. He is mortally
wounded. He crawls back to Dara Happa where he dies. On the Westfaring, on
which all bodies normally go, he is travelling through the Winterwoods. There
he is captured by Elves under High King Elf. They take him to Arroin who heals
him (Arroin is mentioned as being in Winterwood in Abelard's quest). The elves
then call him Yelmalio for they think he is the son of the sun.
I have had less luck in trying to find a continuity between Yelmalio and Elmal.
Despite this I think there is one (after all: yELMALio, coincidental?). I am
busy debating with Joerg over these matters and hope to find an acceptable
solution.
So instead of taking a paragraph out of context and dismissing it as
'sophistry: useless labels everywhere!', I would appreciate it if you gave a
fuller account of what you disliked.
I then wrote
>>IMO, Elmal is worshipped in the place of Orlanth in Orlanths clan system in
>>the Elmali clans - something which is stated in the Yelmalio writeup whereas
>>Antirius is worshipped in the manner of Sun County.
Nick writes
>An odd position to hold, given the myths where Elmal guards Orlanth's stead
>etc....Certainly what you say is not the normal Elmal-among-Orlanthi
>position.
The myths of Elmal are all in KoS. Page numbers are refering to it.
p81. "...he [Orlanth] named Elmal, his loyal thane, to lead and guard the
Housecarls, and his family while he was gone."
p82. "Orlanth gave command of the Stead to Elmal, his loyal thane."
Elmal is not a doorman or nightwatch but a thane. He is then promoted to
organize the stead while Orlanth is away.
p223. Elaml is the judge of what steed is to be used by the Orlanthi.
p255. Elmal is cited as a common cult for a clan to specialize in.
There is nothing in KoS to indicate that Elmal holds the position of a
nightwatch. He is the coordinator of the clan/stead when most of its forces
are away raiding and the leader of the homeguard.
To maximize their effectiveness, a given grouping of clans (at the dawn) would
have some clans actually specializing in worshipping Elmal. They would not
waste time in worshipping Orlanth except in the GL sense of lay member as it
would diminish their effectiveness. But Orlanth via Heort determines the
social system and the clan rules, not Elmal. So I believed the Elmali clans
would have the males worshipping Elmal but hold to the traditional Orlanthi
system in much the same way that a Humakti specializing clan would. They would
still consider themselves Orlanthi and would form a triachy etc with
conventional clans with no hassles. That is what I meant about the worship of
Elmal in the Elmali clans.
Nick then talks of the Elmal-among-Orlanthi. As it is very difficult to
imagine worship of Elmal outside the Orlanthi, I presume he is talking about
the worship of Elmal within conventional clans. In myths, the King or chief of
these clans is always an Orlanthi (or on the not uncommon occasion, she might
be a Vingan). It is these myths, I understand, Elmal is depicted as a
nightguard. That is fine. There is no Elmal job police sent by the central
temple to check that Elmali are holding jobs compatible with their cult status.
But I did *not* say anything about these people and confined my opinions to the
Elmali clans which is where most of the worship in a grouping of clans takes
place.
--Peter Metcalfe.
---------------------
From: jsn...@netcom.com (John R. Snead)
Subject: Runequest: Agimori & Veldang Questions
Message-ID: <940823130...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 23 Aug 94 14:01:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5826
[Fwd to the RuneQuest Daily... - HL]
>From: jsn...@netcom.com (John R. Snead)
>Subject: Runequest: Agimori & Veldang Questions
>Message-ID: <jsneadCu...@netcom.com>
>Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
>X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
>Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 09:20:23 GMT
>Lines: 16
Well, I was just looking over that wonderful supplement River of Cradles,
and noticed that one of the races of Prax were the Agimori. I'd always
assumed they were just black people with normal human stats. Here they
were a kind of improved human with innate armour and fire resistance.
OK, so are the Agimori of Pamaltela the same kind of folks? Also, if, as
it seems, Agimori are a bit different from normal humans, how about
the Veldang. Has anyone of there worked them out, or are they discussed
in any detail anywhere? I'd assume they are sneaky, secretive, and stealthy
by nature, but am interested if anyone has done more with them.
Thanks
-Heron jsn...@netcom.com
---------------------
From: yfc...@castle.ed.ac.uk (Simon Hibbs)
Subject: Runequest: Agimori & Veldang Questions
Message-ID: <940823130...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 23 Aug 94 14:03:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5827
>Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
>From: yfc...@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alice Holt)
>Subject: Re: Runequest: Agimori & Veldang Questions
>References: <jsneadCu...@netcom.com>
>Message-ID: <Cuxst...@festival.ed.ac.uk>
>Sender: ne...@festival.ed.ac.uk (remote news read deamon)
>Organization: Edinburgh University
>Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 12:46:20 GMT
>Lines: 25
jsn...@netcom.com (John R. Snead) writes:
>Well, I was just looking over that wonderful supplement River of Cradles,
>and noticed that one of the races of Prax were the Agimori. I'd always
>assumed they were just black people with normal human stats. Here they
>were a kind of improved human with innate armour and fire resistance.
>OK, so are the Agimori of Pamaltela the same kind of folks? Also, if, as
>it seems, Agimori are a bit different from normal humans, how about
>the Veldang. Has anyone of there worked them out, or are they discussed
>in any detail anywhere? I'd assume they are sneaky, secretive, and stealthy
>by nature, but am interested if anyone has done more with them.
The Agimori in prax are the 'Men and a Half', they are descended from
Lodril and have inherited some of his fiery nature. The Agimori are the
black race of Glorantha, orriginating from the southern continent of
Pamaltela. The white race are called the Wareran. There is no difference
in the stats of most Wareran or Agimori from normal humans. Viking types
from the Ygg's Islands might have a point or two greater SIZ like their
viking counterparts on earth.
The Veldang are akin to the Vadeli, I believe. They have normal human
stats so far as I know.
Simon Hibbs
yfc...@castle.ed.ac.uk
---------------------
From: Bob.L...@tiuk.ti.com
Subject: Lunar Toons
Message-ID: <940823131...@ibrox.tiuk.ti.com>
Date: 23 Aug 94 13:10:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5828
Hi from Bob Luckin !
Darkwalk
========
Keith Smith (X-RQ-ID: 5814) asks :-
> On to another point, I would like to throw a question into the arena
> for debate. In all available sources to me (i.e. RQ2, Trollpack, CoP, CoT,
> original rulebook, and RQ3 GoG, Trollpack, Trollgods, etc.) Orlanth is
> given the spell of Darkwalk (which confers invisibilty AND silence), which
> all sources state he stole from Kyger Litor. Although Kyger Litor has no
> such spell, Argan Argar does. How does one account for this???? Also, in
> RQ3 the only god which confers an invisibilty-type spell is Annilla ( the
> spell is Conceal).
> Any, explanations would be helpful.
I assume that Kyger Litor lost this power when Orlanth stole it, hence she
no longer has the spell. Since it wasn't stolen from Argan Argar, he still
has it.
Something similar happened at the Hill of Gold; when Zorak Zoran defeated
Yelmalio he took his fire powers, and so ZZ cultists are able to learn
Fire Arrow, Fireblade and Ignite, which are prohibited to other troll cults.
CoP states the first two of these are unavailable to Yelmalio cultists for
the same reason; I suspect Ignite should be unavailable to them as well.
I have a friend who used to both GM and play as a PC in other campaigns. He's
moved away now, but I remember he was most dischuffed when RQ3 came out and
he discovered his favourite character (Villa - a thief - and yes, the name
was inspired by the character in Blake's Seven) would lose his Invisibility
spell under the new rules.
Martin (X-RQ-ID: 5796) says :-
> Bob Luckin says:
> >We have the hyenas - we can rebuild him
> I don't know when I've laughed so long--thanks for making my day!
You're welcome ! Amazing to find someone else with a sense of humour as
warped as mine... :-)
This also suggests a good number to use when your Issaries PCs ask how
many pieces are left to find before the God can be reassembled; just tell 'em
"6 million" and charge them for a Divination.
Lunar Toons
===========
MOB (X-RQ-ID: 5797) confirms that the current Red Emperor may indeed
resemble Yosemite Sam; it was an earlier incarnation who was hairless and
from which Anderida is descended. Thanks for this useful tidbit of
information.
Simon Hibbs (X-RQ-ID: 5811) suggests a Toon Quest. I hadn't gone quite
as far as adapting Toon rules to Glorantha, but yes, perhaps we don't need
to beat on Greg to publish HQ after all; we'll just use Toon instead ! :-)
Which reminds me, now that we've assigned Elmer and Sam to Gloranthan
analogues, who gets to be the Martian ? The Only Old One ? I suppose it
could be some Chaos deity who wants to destroy the lozenge because it
obstructs his view...
Th-th-th-th-at's all, folks !
--
Bob Luckin vo...@tiuk.ti.com "Able was I ere I saw Corflu"
---------------------
From: pea...@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za (Dave Pearton)
Subject: The great David Chaos Gaggle, etc..
Message-ID: <m0qcvxj...@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za>
Date: 23 Aug 94 17:32:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5829
:From: dave_cordes@cl_63smtp_gw.chinalake.navy.mil (Dave Cordes)
:
:Why are you settling with just a David Switch. In the true spirit of Primal
:Chaos, Thed, etc you could have a Great David Scramble.
:
:Just take Davids: Cake, Gadbois, Hall, Dunham, Cheng, Baur, Cordes, Pearton,
:DeKruger(hasn't contributed yet, but I know he reads the Dailys). And any
:others I may have inadvertently missed. Shuffle them all up andrandomly
:draw one each time you need a David.
Mwhahahaha <evil laugh>. This is the best yet, not only that but
this would be a intercontinental experiment to put the God
Learner's efforts to shame! The great David Chaos-Gaggle would
cover most continents in its unbreakable grip.......
:Hey, I don't know all the rules yet, but would this make a good Trollball
:Team?
One shudders to think of the consequences (Ok, who's game for it
at RQConII ;)
-----------------
:"Look at the map in Codex #2, lentil-brain!"
: -- Name and address withheld, God Learner Studies Department, Nochet
: College of Further Education.
The Gift Carriers of the Sending Gods have your number, expect a
visit soon ;)
--------------
Joerg in X-RQ-ID: 5779
[An excellent exposition of Gloranthan Cosmology deleted, but greatly
appreciated!]
> But what are the upper and lower bounds of this? Is there a roof to the
> upper heavens and a lower bound to the hells? There would have to be if
> chaos enters "from outside".
:IMO the Upper heaven allows a plain view into the unformed substance of
:the Void. Only Dayzatar and his minions face this (I wonder how
:chaos-tainted this makes them, although another Gloranthan term for this
:is "mystic"). The outer Hell is in fact a border region where Darkness
:gradually becomes Chaos, and the deities and heroes of Darkness fight
:their encounters with invaders from the Void here. Invaders to the Upper
:Heaven are not so much fought but reasoned away.
:
:I find it interesting though that the holder of Truth is directly exposed
:to the Void. Truth may be his weapon, but what does this use do to Truth?"
Not only that but it has interesting implications for the
Gloranthan view of truth - the bounds of the cosmos are where the
"single truth" of Glorantha give way to the "multiple truths" of
the Void. Dayzatar, as the embodiment of truth, thus maintains the
border by his very nature. This provides yet another reason to
hate illuminates - by their rejection of a single Gloranthan truth
they are weakening the borders of the cosmos which are maintained
by the common consensus of truth.
Also, thank you to Joerg, Sandy and Alex for their excellent and
entertaining answers.
Cheers,
Just another link in the cosmic David....
ps: Alex: I do find you (and all others in Britian) responsible for cricket,
especially after last week-end's humilation. <mutters darkly about West
Indian imports ;>
--
***********************************************************************
Dave Pearton * ....As I was saying before I
Biochemistry Dept. * was so rudely interrupted
University of Natal * by one of my multiple
Pietermaritzburg * personalities....
South Africa *
pea...@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za * Naked Lunch (W.S. Burroughs)
************************************************************************
---------------------
From: AND...@delphi.com
Subject: Davids, Darkwalk
Message-ID: <01HG8TO5T...@delphi.com>
Date: 23 Aug 94 06:07:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5830
>Why would the Godlearners waste their time switching Davids when they
could combine them all into one David? I'm thinking of that Michael
Morrcock novel (the name slips my mind) where characters are combined!
At least the resulting Godlearner "creation" wouldn't be hermaphroditic,
unlike the creature in the novel! But what powers would it have?
>The point is that Orlanth stole DarkWalk from KL, therefore KL no longer
has it; the parallel is Yelmalio's Fire spells, now in the possession of
good old ZZ!
---------------------
From: yfc...@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: Misc mutterings
Message-ID: <9408231601.aa22738@uk.ac.ed.castle>
Date: 23 Aug 94 15:01:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5831
Dave Cordes says :
>Just take Davids: Cake, Gadbois, Hall, Dunham, Cheng, Baur, Cordes, Pearton,
>DeKruger(hasn't contributed yet, but I know he reads the Dailys). And any
>others I may have inadvertently missed. Shuffle them all up and randomly
>draw one each time you need a David.
Perhaps we should all call each other David, just to avoid any confusion?
Kevin Rose says :
> Anyone have any information on whether a sever spirit is suposed
>to be resurectable?
I always thought it was so, Does it not say in the spell description?
Keith E. Smith says :
> According to Cults of Prax page 59, Etyries WAS a daughter of Issaries
I always assumed that in historical literature 'son of god X' and 'daughter
of godess Y' was synonymous with Rune status in the cult. Thus Arkat was a
Runelord of Humakt and so several tales about him say he was a son of
Humakt. (I know we have been over this before).
Perhaps this has something to do with heroquesting? Perhaps every cult has
a quest to become a child of the god(ess). I would not be at all
surprised if it turned out that Garzeen and Goldentongue were heroes of
the early Issaries cult, the founders of subcults which have grown to
define Issaries worship.
If Etyries was orriginaly a priestess of Garzeen, surely the cult she
founded would carry over the Garzeen cult strictures. I am sure these
could have been heroquested away, but maybe it is too late in the
development of the new cult for that.
Alex says to Joerg :
>Ready, schmeady. It was 20km away, and still is, by train-strike-ridden
>cycle-only transport. Please stand by.
You aren't the only one suffering under this godforsaken ban, Now I know
what the Fronellan's felt like, and I only have to live with it two days
in seven!
Simon Hibbs
yfcw29@
---------------------
From: gkc...@udcf.gla.ac.uk (S.Phillips)
Subject: If I am an NPC, which toon am I?
Message-ID: <18128.199...@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 23 Aug 94 16:58:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5832
Hi from Sam
-----------
Exams. Exams. Exams!!
I return to normality next week. See you then.
Please send no more Email requests for Varmandisaga. It will go snail-mail
when it is completed. I can't send the maps'n'pics E-mail. I will be asking
for SAE's when the time is right. I count 20 requests but I am sure there were
more. I fear I have lost some My mate Paul Devlin (one-time writer of fine
alternative comics) has started writing stuff for it too. It currently stands
at around 50 sides. Hopefully I can photocopy onto both sides to reduce weight.I am, sadly, bankrupt so I may have to request contributions towards printing.
I propise you that it *is* worth it. Swapsies *are* valid currency.
If anyone wants to contribute to our less than serious exploration of Sartarian Clan Life I am most happy to receive. Anything on Lunars, Ducks, Apple Lane,
Orlevings, Larnste's Table, Jonstown, etc etc are especially welcome.
Just Email me at GKC...@UDCF.GLASGOW.AC.UK.
By way of an apology, I have posted a portion of it to the Digest. I hope you
like it. Unfortunately, since then I have been Gregged again. Waaa!.. Big
thanks to Nick for being the messenger. I have not decided what to do about
it. Perhaps Greg is wrong? ;-)
Daffy is an Eurmal if ever there was one.
Cheers!
Sam. x
Sam Phillips,
Not Scotland But Sartar,
Not Ormthane but Swan,
Not Varmanditula but Oakton.
*sigh!*
"Where d'go, Musky?" - Vincent-van-gopher.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Hazia revisited
Message-ID: <_29996_Tue_Aug_23_12:53:06_1...@bnr.ca>
Date: 23 Aug 94 08:52:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5834
There was some discussion a while back about the introduction of hazia
as a plot device in Glorantha. I hope people won't be bored by revisiting
such an old topic. Here are my thoughts about hazia.
Hazia Cultivation in Sun County
Hazia is not native to Sun County and the Zola Fel, and it can not
survive there without human cultivation. However, with cultivation and
irrigation, it does very well and achieves yields that it never could in
its native forests.
Hazia has been cultivated in Sun County for centuries. The current total
prohibitions are fairly recent. Originally instated by Varthanis at
Lunar request, they have not been repealed by Solanthos because he
personally detests any form of self-indulgence. Solanthos has actually
toughened the enforcement of these laws. This suits his own temperament
and also allows him to tell the Lunars that he is cooperating with their
Armistice commission.
The traditional laws against the cultivation of hazia were only intended
to prevent farmers from growing too much hazia as a cash crop as this
practice could jeopardize the self-sufficiency of Sun County
communities. Everyone is expected to plant their main fields with
food-crops, mostly grains. Smaller garden plots could and did contain
hazia, tobacco, cannabis, and poppy. Cannabis and poppy were grown for
fibre and seeds, respectively, in addition to their narcotic value.
Tobacco and hazia were grown exclusively as recreational
pharmaceuticals. As long as people did not grow excessive quantities of
these drugs, no laws were broken. Even today, despite Solanthos'
interpretation of the law, most households in the county have a few of
these plants in their kitchen garden and the local authorities take no
action against them.
The nature of Hazia
The drug hazia has been described as the stamens of certain flowers
native to the Stinking Forest. Some adventures have suggested that bales
of hazia are being exported from small villages near the Zola Fel. The
entire crop of a good saffron field will fit in a small bowl. The bales
of export hazia can not be just the stamens.
The stamens of hazia are the most potent and most valuable drug that the
plants produce. The flowers are the second most, two grades of flowers
exist: those with stamens still in and those with stamens already
removed. The leaves and stems of the hazia are the lowest grade of drug
it produces. A large scale hazia farming operation can produce bales of
leaves, bags of flowers, and pouches of stamens.
The stamens are the traditional form of the drug in most of Genertela.
These were the only portions sufficiently valuable to be traded far from
the Stinking Forest. A few stamens contain as much drug as a few
pipefulls of leaves. Furthermore the stamens burn completely in only one
long drag on a pipe, giving a much more intense rush.
The 64,000 Wheel question: Why did the Lunars make Hazia Illegal?
Here is my thesis:
Hazia has been a rare and expensive drug in the Lunar Empire for
centuries. As long as the only source was the Stinking Forest no large
quantities were available and no problem was perceived. After the Lunar
conquest of Prax much larger quantities were available from Sun County
and the rest of the Zola Fel. This was sought out as a prestige drug
back in the Empire by the Imperials in the region. They shipped much of
it back and many developed serious dependencies on the drug.
The sudden new influx of large quantities of the drug created a
perception of a larger problem than really existed, the productivity
losses due to alcohol consumption were and are larger than the
losses due to hazia.
The first regulations passed against it were internal policies by some
members of the bureaucracy who found their subordinates being less
productive because of hazia consumption. These first regulations
were ineffective, and only lead to the affected users seeking out
surreptitious sources of the drug. This lead them into contact with
those ultimate suppliers of all things forbidden, the cult of Krarsht.
Some unknown Krarshti had a brilliant inspiration for an entire new
criminal industry. The cult leant secret aid and influence to the senior
bureaucrats who wanted to ban the drug from the bureaucracy. It
encouraged them to seek an Imperial edict banning the drug entirely.
Between the honest men who thought the ban was a good thing and the
corrupt ones working knowingly for Krarsht, the Emperor was convinced
and the edict was granted.
Now all the legal sources of the drug dried up and the addicts
throughout the Empire had to get their supplies elsewhere. Most of these
were controlled by Krarsht. The Krarshti have always been involved in
smuggling, now they added hazia to the substances they moved through the
Empire.
The price of hazia in the Empire shot up, all that money now went to
Krarsht. Honest people who might not be bought by money might fall to
addiction. Important people with addictions were encouraged to defray
the cost of their habit by selling to their friends and colleagues, and
Krarsht's influence expanded.
The effect of the ban was to provide the cult of Krarsht with an
effective monopoly on supply and huge price supports for this highly
addictive substance. Thus a small social problem has been elevated to a
social and criminal disaster.
The big question now is: How long will it take the Empire to realize
what a serious mistake it has made? The second question is: How long
after that will it take for them to admit that they made a serious
mistake? ?????????????????????????????????????
---------------------
From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Moose
Message-ID: <_135_Tue_Aug_23_12:53:42_1...@bnr.ca>
Date: 23 Aug 94 08:53:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5835
For those of you who are having trouble with the notion of moose riders, may I
suggest a novel by Sterling E. Lanier titled "Hiero's Journey". (There is at
least one more book in the series, but the first is best IMO.) Hiero's steed is
a specially bred bull moose who is a devastating weapon in battle. The book has
some weak points but some of the imagery is great. Maybe it will help you think
of moose without giggling.
kl...@diku.dk in X-RQ-ID: 5773
<BTW why do Americans call the elk "moose"?
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word moose is taken from one of
the languages of the native americans, most likely Narragansett or Abenaki.
---------------------
From: Phil_...@iconex.mactel.org
Subject: RQ Daily on MacTel BBS
Message-ID: <1994Aug21.1...@iconex.mactel.org>
Date: 21 Aug 94 14:34:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5836
All RQ Daily that I recieve are now available on Mac Tel BBS (0602-455444) in
the UK,
in the cultural/games/fun conference area. If you have access take a look,
leave a message,
if you don't then I can recommend this BBS as one of the best (it's using the
FirstClass interface).
ps. To all those who I gave my internet address as ba...@iconex.mactel.org - it
isn't - sorry!
It's Phil_...@iconex.mactel.org
==============================
* from Mactel Iconex - Operating from Nottingham UK
* Voice Tel 0602-455077 BBS Tel 0602-455444 Fax Tel 0602-455121
* Reply via Internet ----> users...@iconex.mactel.org
* The views expressed in this posting are those of the author only
==============================
---------------------
From: im...@bu.edu (Eric Johnson-DeBaufre)
Subject: Forthcoming RuneQuest
Message-ID: <940823193...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 23 Aug 94 20:38:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5837
Recently, I was leafing through a copy of the latest issue of
White Wolf and noticed an ad for a new RQ product called Lords of Terror.
It appears to be an updated version of Cults of Terror, and looks as if
it will be a terrific and long overdue addition to RuneQuest. Does anyone
have any information on when this will be available, as well as any info
on any new releases for Runequest?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Eric Johnson-DeBaufre "He who has nothing external that can divert
Boston University him, must find pleasure in his own thoughts,
(im...@acs.bu.edu) and must conceive himself what he is not;
for who is pleased with what he is?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
---------------------
From: SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: arcos valley and cosmos
Message-ID: <01HG981UG...@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 23 Aug 94 11:49:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5838
- The Blue Wizard responds on my Arcos River question.
Thanks for reminding me about H'har As Jing. I forgot about it. And
it does seem to fit the general pattern below.
Z arkos
Dzhar st ing
H har astzhing (using a tzh for the j sound)
- Joerg follows this same question up with a lot of good information
that I had not seen before.
The area covering Rinliddi, Jarst, Garsting, the Hungry Plateau and
the Jord Mountains sounds like something that would have left some
interesting traces. Perhaps this was overthrown by the Sable Riders
(or was this ruled by the Sable Riders if they were already present)?
I would surmise an Old Rinliddic, precursor of the Pelorian Farmer
language of Rinliddic, with much closer likes to Jarstic. I would
similarly think of an Old Kostaddic on the Oslir side of the Jord
Mountains which might also be related (especially if the rulers of the
Jord Mountains/Hungry Plateau were forced down from the highlands or
descended into empty land after the Dragonkill War).
As for Balazar, Griffin Mountain says he came from the northwest with
his cult of Yelmalio in 1082. Vanch is probable. Of course, his name
may not have been BalaZar at that time. The Zar may be a
title/addition to affiliate himself more closely with the natives.
Darjeeb does seem to be positioned correctly to be at least on the
site of Senthoros. The entire legend of Ovosto, son of Gerendetho and
steward of Senthoros, suggests that Dara Happan goods were sent there
in exchange for food and even that Ovosto ruled the empire (or part of
it). Perhaps Ovosto started the transformation of the name Zarkos.
Any thoughts on the Garstingian city of Poralals or the cities on the
Elf Sea later sacked by the southern prong of Sheng Seleris' invasion?
- Joerg on the cosmos
I like the images of earth/sea creatures on the bottom of the lozenge,
as well as downward or sideways growing volcanoes.
I think it is appropriate that Dayzatar and his minions face the chaos
with Truth--it does imply an inner mysticism and enlightenment. I
might suggest that the impact of chaos and truth is a release from the
cycles of life and death to become a seed perhaps for another
universe. Of course, chaos could also turn the truth to illusion or
simply annihilate it.
--Harald
---------------------
From: j...@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: The David Switch
Message-ID: <940823211...@hp0.zycor.lgc.com>
Date: 23 Aug 94 21:14:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5839
>> From: Bob.L...@tiuk.ti.com
>> Subject: Memory like a seive
>> X-RQ-ID: 5774
...
>> Nice idea ! But wait until next April before you try the David Hall/Cake
>> switch (that's when I'm due to transfer to Dallas). You'd also have to
>> be careful an opposing group didn't try to meddle and substitute another
>> David, or you could end up, say, switching Cheng with Gadbois instead...
WHOA! The latter would be tragic. Who'd I drink with?
Cheng would just laugh at me stumbling around (justifiably, I'll admit).
With Gadbois, at least I get to point and laugh at him too!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| john_...@zycor.lgc.com | Landmark Graphics Corp | 512.292.2325 |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| "We are, after all, professionals." - Hunter S. Thompson |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: sco...@olivia.cedar-rapids.ia.us (Scott Haney)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 23 Aug 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <940823222...@olivia.cedar-rapids.ia.us>
Date: 23 Aug 94 22:21:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5840
& > I DEMAND Moose Hsunchen in my campaign. I just don't want 'em
hello! I am Baron von Moosehsunchen, and I have just had the most
amazing adventure.....
---------------------
From: sst...@cs.utep.edu
Subject: Orlanth's Darkwalk
Message-ID: <940824002...@cs.utep.edu>
Date: 24 Aug 94 00:24:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5841
Keith wrote:
> On to another point, I would like to throw a question into the arena
>for debate. In all available sources to me (i.e. RQ2, Trollpack, CoP, CoT,
> original rulebook, and RQ3 GoG, Trollpack, Trollgods, etc.) Orlanth is
>given the spell of Darkwalk (which confers invisibilty AND silence), which
>all sources state he stole from Kyger Litor. Although Kyger Litor has no
>such spell, Argan Argar does. How does one account for this???? Also, in
>RQ3 the only god which confers an invisibilty-type spell is Annilla ( the
>spell is Conceal).
> Any, explanations would be helpful.
It seems to me that since when Yelmalio's Heat powers were stolen,
he lost them (he now has light w/o heat), it makes sense that Kitty Litter
HAD Darkwalk but lost it when Orlanth took it.
Steve Stair
---------------------
From: guy....@chrysalis.org
Subject: OFFLINE READE
Message-ID: <940824000...@chrysalis.org>
Date: 23 Aug 94 22:01:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5842
This isn't about Glorantha or RQ, but it does have something to do with how I
get the Daily.
When I get the RQD, it's usually broken down into 25k chunks, which I download
in a QWK packet with my other mail.
I want to be able to use an offline mail reader (OLR) to read and reply to the
Digest, but I can't seem to find one with this capability. I'm currently using
the SLMR v2.1.
How do the rest of you read the Daily? What programs or techniques? I hesitate
to use space on the Daily to discuss this, so please feel free to contact me at
guy....@chrysalis.org
GUY HOYLE
aka Fido Two-Big-Clubs
PS Sandy, I ran into someone on RED OCTOBER who says that Sean Summers is in
his campaign! I'm sure he'd want to say Hi!
---------------------
From: 10027...@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Entekos
Message-ID: <940824064638_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 24 Aug 94 06:46:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5843
_______________
Peter Metcalfe:
> This is of course Entekos who is according to Mr P. in the Gods wall at
> postion II-1. In a commentary he cites her as Goddess of Calm, Lady of
> the Summer Air, Mother of Moons and Queen of the Air. As is obvious to
> people with a faction of God Learnerism, this is in fact Molanni Calm
> Air. Since Annilla was already old before Murharzarm was crowned and
> Umath young at this time, I do not believe that Molanni (Umaths grand-
> daughter via Vadrus) really is the mother of moons.
Once again the bollockly nature of God Learnerism is displayed. Entekos has
four titles; for no good reason, the Blue Wizard promotes "Calm Air" above
"Mother of Moons", then uses the spurious identity he has created ("Entekos
IS Molanni") to reduce her interesting powers. Let's see who has the last
laugh...
Plentonius knew of Molanni: cf. GRAY p.10.
And, remind me again of the difference between (sequential) Time and (non-
sequential) Godtime, Big Blue.
> In any case, we will have to wait for the Lunar Book (any idea on its
> title, people?) for the answer to be settled.
Greg mentioned calling it "The Masks of the Goddess" a while back.
> I think that the Pelorians used a indigenous [runic/symbolic] system
> before being flooded by the EWF and/or the Carmanians.
Agreed. But the Carmanians are unlikely to be bearers of God Learnerism,
given their antecedents. They could have brought pre-God Learner Western
Runes (if such things existed), I suppose. Maybe Peloria is still to some
extent "virgin soil" (in the runic field as elsewhere): the runes could be
recognisable but not explicit in local symbolism.
______
Joerg:
> There aren't any temple defenses [in "Dragon Pass"] either, although I
> feel that temples ought to have immobile spirits as temple defenses.
> Something along the lines X - X - 8 - 0 in DP terms.
Or maybe allow any unit stacked in its own temple to use DSM (or double any
DSM they already possess)? Creates more tactics, fewer counters...
____________
Keith Smith:
> Orlanth is given the spell of Darkwalk (which confers invisibilty AND
> silence), which all sources state he stole from Kyger Litor. Although
> Kyger Litor has no such spell, Argan Argar does. How does one account
> for this????
Simple, really. If I steal your wallet from you, then you will no longer
possess your wallet. Look at Zorak Zoran and Yelmalio for more of the same.
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Aaaaaaarrrrrgghhhh.....
Message-ID: <940824071...@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 24 Aug 94 08:11:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5844
Scott Haney:
>hello! I am Baron von Moosehsunchen, and I have just had the most
>amazing adventure.....
--
Henk | Henk.La...@Sun.COM - Disclaimer: I don't speak for Sun.
oK[] | Single Point of Change, Multiple Points of Reference
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 23 Aug 1994
Message-ID: <940823161...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 23 Aug 94 04:13:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5833
> I've often wondered if strolling players in Kralorela present
>morality plays based on the life of the belt-buckle salesman who
>became Godunya, the Dragon Emperor
Further speculation on the origin of the belt-buckle salesman
may be squelched (or maybe not) by the revelation that a certain
Francis G. S. was a belt-buckle salesman in the late 60s.
Al Bundy indeed. *scoff*
>If David Cake is a 'False David' and we start 'worshiping' him
>(writing letters, buying him beer, etc) Eventualy he might
>demonstrate effective publishing powers and spontaneously start his
>own Zine!
Ultimately resulting in a cosmic war between the two
remaining Davids, of course. Primarily fought on the hero plane.
Dave Cordes (another superfluous David):
>you could have a Great David Scramble. Just take Davids: Cake,
>Gadbois, Hall, Dunham, Cheng, Baur, Cordes, Pearton, DeKruger. Would
>this make a good Trollball Team?
Who would be the ball?
Kemren(?) says:
> IMO, Etyries was one of the four subcults established by Issaries
>at the dawn of time
Yes, I think so, too. But I also think that the cult has
undergone a Mighty Change since the advent of the Red Goddess.
SANDY'S SPECULATIVE HISTORY OF THE ETYRIES/ISSARIES CULT
FIRST AGE: Etyries was one of the Four Sacred Subcults of
Issaries. I'm not sure exactly what her role was, but it might have
been Enhancer of Value, in which she'd take some item, fancy it up,
and then it would be worth more when Garzeen took it to sell.
SECOND AGE: The God-Learners settled on Issaries as a highly
useful cult for their purposes, and proceeded to edit said cult to
perfect it. First off, they realized that they didn't need ALL the
cult members to try to resurrect Genert, and tried to eliminate that
particular cult stricture. They failed, but were able to restrict it
to just one subcult. Second, they decided to make the Issaries cult
parallel with the Malkioni social structure, perhaps to make them
more acceptable in the west, or just as an experiment, or maybe
because that was how the Jrusteli culture was organized. So Spare
Grain became the "farmer", Goldentongue became the
"wizard/speaker/priest"-equivalent, and Garzeen became the "lord". In
order to have a "warrior" rank, they invented the infamous Issaries
Rune Lords, which are by the early 1600s almost unknown, but still
known in cult doctrine and rules, so occasionally show up. Also, the
Rune Lords become the fourth "son" of Issaries, mentioned in p. 59 of
CoP. To complete the parallel, Etyries became the "female" part of
the system, losing her earlier unique role, and becoming a catch-all
for any women who joined Issaries. Maybe there was even a
half-hearted attempt to split her apart from the rest of the
religion. Later on, women began joining Spare Grain, Garzeen,
Goldentongue, etc., and Etyries became even more obscure.
THIRD AGE: Issaries remains fossilized in his Second Age
structure. A barbarian woman, stuck in the now-tedious Etyries
subcult, travels to Peloria and learns of the Red Goddess's
teachings. She is inspired, goes on heroquests, and revitalizes the
Etyries subcult, in the process basically breaking off from the
standard Lightbringer religion, and making herself identified with
her goddess.
Keith Smith:
>Orlanth is given the spell of Darkwalk, which all sources state he
>stole from Kyger Litor. Although Kyger Litor has no such spell,
>Argan Argar does. How does one account for this?
Kyger Litor lacks the spell BECAUSE Orlanth stole it. The
bastard.
>In RQ3 the only god which confers an invisibilty-type spell is
>Annilla.
Annilla teaches Conceal, Invisibility (the spirit spell), and
I think Vision, too. These spells were removed from the general
lineup because gamemasters everywhere hated when their players used
the damn things.
"Ahead you see an ominous fort, manned by newtlings."
"Okay, I cast Vision and explore the entire layout before our
assault. Then we cast Concealment and sneak over the walls and get
into the treasure room."
*groan*
Obviously there's ways around these spells, but it's a pain
to have to do it.
Alex Ferguson
>[elk are] Not like what kind of deer, exactly? They're in the deer
>family, last time I checked. Maybe I've lost the thread of this
>thread, but doesn't it blithely state in G:G that there are Elk
>hsunchen in Pralorela?
When an American (the bulk of native English speakers in the
world), such as Greg S. or Sandy P. uses the word "elk" he is not
referring to the beastie with palmate antlers, a swollen nose, and
huge size -- the largest of all deer. Instead, he is referring to
Cervus elaphus, which is large and potentially dangerous, and a
small, puny, variety of which is known in England as the "red deer".
Elk are behaviorally and genetically not similar to American
whitetail or mule deer. I can't speak for fallow deer. Elk are in the
same family as mule deer, but so are moose, so your argument that
Pralori should be moose "to make them more different than the Damali"
holds little water.
Yes, there are elk Hsunchen in Pralorela. They are Cervus
elaphus. There are also moose Hsunchen in Pralorela, and Fronela, and
anywhere else that has cold swamplands for them to enjoy. But they
are less numerous than the Pralori, who are proper elks.
Damali = [small] deer (I'm not sure what type, but I don't
picture them as fallow deer).
Pralori = Cervus elaphus, a member of the deer family.
Bullwinklings = moose, also members of the deer family.
I wouldn't be surprised if Trowjang had Hsunchen of the mouse
deer tribe. Itty bitty antlerless deer with huge fangs.
>> I would never have an entire Duck Kingdom in a major important
>>place in my campaign.
>This seems to imply that Duck Valley has just been Sandied Down.
>After all, the Ducks are a Sartarite tribe, therefore they have a
>King, therefore it's a Kingdom.
Eat me. You know what I meant.
>Sandy and I may have to form an Alexandrine League
Luckily, I am a Sanford, etymologically quite dissimilar from
Alexander, so I should be safe from this dire threat.
---------------------
X-RQ-ID: Extro
[The rules of the game]
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Please include a Subject: line. Articles without it will be ignored,
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Selected articles may also appear in a regular Digest. If you
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Send enquiries and Subscription Requests to the editor:
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sub list add...@your.domain Your Full Name
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RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Of Moons and Men...
Message-ID: <01HGAUU02...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 25 Aug 94 10:00:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5845
An Important Message from the Blue Wizard
I have discovered for the second day in a row that one creature whose initials
are N.B. has been spreading evil slanders to the effect that I hold sympathies
with the learned fools called the God Learners. This is not so. I have
further discovered that this Nick Brooke is one of the infamous 'Knows Nothing'
gang. These are as you all know, a group of notorious philosophical vagabonds
who hang around places of learning and deny any unity in the world whatsoever.
It is further well known that the 'Knows Nothing' gangs are nothing but a mask
for the cabal of Silver Dwarves anxious to preserve their secrets from the
manifest destiny of the human race.
Already they have destroyed what little is known of the Falagian Diamonds.
What other infamy will they attempt next? I urge all of you that meet a member
of the 'Knows Nothing' gang to stone him immediately.
Now to the offending article at hand which outraged Nick Brooke so because he
knew it was the truth and cannot bear having the truth made public. As you all
know it for this crime, that Malkion condemned Zrethus and expelled him from
Brithos.
>>This of course is Entenkos who according to Mr P. in the GOds Wall at
>>position II-1. In a commentary he cites her as Goddess of Calm, Lady of the
>>Summer AIr, Mother of Moons and Queen of the Air. As is obvious to people
>>with a fraction of god learnerism, this is in fact Molanni Calm Air.
He writes
>once again the bollocksy nature of God Learnerism is displayed>
As exemplified he shows his ignorance of academic debate. We all know that it
is custom to refrain from personal attacks as they merely cloud the arguements
at hand. Of course this simpleton is incapable of understanding this as it is
well know he has acquired the unfortunate habit of Tapping his own mind for
magical power when under Stress.
>Entekos has four titles; for no good reason, the Blue Wizard promotes "Calm
>Air" above "Mother of Moons",
I did not promote Calm Air over Mother of Moons. Entekos has three titles
relating to her command of the aerial forces in Dara Happa. The Mother of
Moons is the only other one. Three is bigger than one (a fact all but perhaps
Nick know). Thus the Dara Happans worshipped her primarily for her aerial
abilities and thus they themselves promoted Air above Mother of Moons.
>...then uses the spurious identity he has created ('Entekos IS Molanni')...
I see nothing wrong with the identification that I have made. Molanni is known
as a traitor among the Storm Gods of the Orlanthi whom the Dara Happans hate.
Her chief crime apparently was to be still air hence the curse of Molanni Calm
Air. This as we all know is one of the titles of Entekos. We know from our
anonymous commentator that Entekos was not her original name. So it fits and
is better than anything Nick 'Knows Nothing' Brooke could come up with.
>...to reduce her interesting powers.
I have not reduced any powers. Nick in his feverished attempt to blacken my
reputation resorts to inventing imaginary crimes. I merely denied that she was
the mother of Annilla, an identification to which Nick should have denied in
the first place since Annilha on the Gods Wall is not in any way connected with
Moons. Thus the falsity of his position is exposed for the feeble sophistry it
is.
>Let's see who has the last laugh.
Alas for Nick. I grieve for him. He as a member of the 'Knows Nothing' is
mortal having thrown away the key to Solace. I keeping to the path of Solace
am immortal and so that when he dies, I will still be alive and capable of
laughter. Thus it is obvious to all but the dimmest mind (for I fear Nick does
not comprehend) that I will have the last laugh.
>Pletonius knew of Molanni.
He did not know of her history before she became Entekos except to list her as
one of the marriage contestants of Yelm. This only exposes the shallowness of
his research. As an example, it is clear to anybody that Gods Wall II-1 is not
Entekos but Dendara because of the Rune above her head and the fact of her four
daughters following in II-2, II-3, II-4 and II-5. These illustrate a certain
age of her life: Ariria, the woman not yet married; Naveria, the woman who is
married in order to procreate; Lesilla; the mother and Koveria the Grandmother.
>And, remind me again of the difference between (sequential) time and
>(non-sequential) Godtime, Big Blue.
Nick here shows himself relying too much on the words of one former belt buckle
salesman. As is plain to all but Nick, there is no difference. Godtime is
just as sequential as the age in which we live. I challenge him to produce one
example where it was otherwise.
On this note, I retire
The Blue Wizard
--Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: wat...@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 24 Aug 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <1994082410...@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 24 Aug 94 12:47:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5846
______
Sandy:
> "Ahead you see an ominous fort, manned by newtlings."
> "Okay, I cast Vision and explore the entire layout before our
>assault. Then we cast Concealment and sneak over the walls and get
>into the treasure room."
> *groan*
> Obviously there's ways around these spells, but it's a pain
>to have to do it.
Coincidentally, only last week my sorceress used Project Sight for similar ends.
No "treasure room", only prisoners; no newtlings only Chaos Beasties, but
other than that it was the same.
The GM, much to his credit, didn't care in the slightest when we reconned the
place with Project Sight. It turned a potential dungeon-hack into an
SAS-style surgical strike, in many ways improving the game and increasing
the enjoyment of all concerned. It certainly avoided a lot of needless
carnage (well, we hope so, we're not out of it yet...).
I don't think these covert spells have all the scenario-knackering potential
that some folks credit them with. In my experience something inevitably goes
wrong even with the most foolproof plans.
___
CW.
---------------------
From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Depraved cover art
Message-ID: <_4473_Wed_Aug_24_07:58:06_1...@bnr.ca>
Date: 24 Aug 94 03:58:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5847
MOB
"it was us who brought you ...the depraved cover of issue #8 (expurgated for
our prudish American readers)."
I thought I saw a TOTRM circulating at RQ-Con with a cover I did not remember
(and bloody well would have remembered had I seen it). No more censorship! I
demand that all depraved Megacorp products be distributed uncut in North
America! (Though you may have to mail it in plain brown wrappers to get it past
Canada customs.)
---------------------
From: coo...@max.mml.mmc.com (Chris Cooke)
Subject: Sartar Guidebook
Message-ID: <9408241337.AA06681@Sun.COM>
Date: 24 Aug 94 13:40:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5848
I saw mention of a Sartar Guidbook. Is it possible to get a copy?
--
/> Chris Cooke
//
(//////[O]>====================================-
\\
\> coo...@mml.mmc.com
---------------------
From: jc...@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (Chris Wehman)
Subject: Jarst Daro
Message-ID: <1994082414...@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu>
Date: 24 Aug 94 06:04:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5849
I will be playing Jarst Daro(an NPC) in the Garhound contest(From RoC) in
about a week and I had heard that someone had posted an excellent
unofficial write-up of ogres, i.e. physiology, habits, society. I was
wondering if someone could email me that in the next few days at my email
address as it appears above.
Thanks,
Jarst Daro
"I eat Moose hunschen"
---------------------
From: gkc...@udcf.gla.ac.uk (S.Phillips)
Subject: Moose
Message-ID: <14641.199...@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 24 Aug 94 16:16:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5850
>From: sco...@olivia.cedar-rapids.ia.us (Scott Haney)
>& > I DEMAND Moose Hsunchen in my campaign. I just don't want 'em
>
>hello! I am Baron von Moosehsunchen, and I have just had the most
>amazing adventure.....
-- Vamoose, Moose!
Sam.
Not David but David.
---------------------
From: lips...@vax.ox.ac.uk
Subject: Heavy Shadow
Message-ID: <009836F0....@vax.ox.ac.uk>
Date: 24 Aug 94 16:48:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5852
I recently came across a theory originating from ancient Greece (it amy have
been attributed to Plato, I can't recall) concerning the behaviour of elements
which seems to fit quite well into the Gloranthan cosmology.
Basically, elements (Air,Earth,Fire,Water in the greek version. Add
Darkness for Glorantha) seek out their natural position in the cosmos, so if
you drop a stone, it will fall to the ground because it is seeking Earth.
Bubbles rise in water because Air lies above Water and the bubbles are
attempting to reach Air, heat rises because it is trying to reach Sky and so
on. There are a few seeming contradictions - Earth lies on top of Water, so why
do rocks sink? The answer to this is that the Earth cube is mostly submerged,
so rocks and the like are merely heading for an equilibrium point. If dropped
near Magasta's pool they would not sink all the way down to Hell (theoretically
of course. They would probably be swept along by the current.
If these observations were taken as true, a couple of other points
arise -
Firstly if one could harness heat or light, one could ascend to the
Sky. I can easily see someone like Leonardo the Scientist of God Forgot
constructing a hot air balloon on these principles. Of course with the ballon
it is Air plus Heat that is trapped, and the Heat can somehow escape unless
replenished.
Secondly, if Heat (and Light) rises, then Darkness must sink. This
is not too unlikely since we talk of "nightfall", shadows "falling" across
something and so on. The fact that we do not feel them is because of their
ephemerality, but again I can see an interesting demonstartion where on takes a
balance with equal weights in both pans, then casts a shadow onto one side and
lo and behold! It sinks (very slightly). One offshoot of Darkness having weight
would be that a shadow cast on the floor would be darker than one cast upwards.
Perhaps one cast on a wall would be darker at the bottom where all the "shadons"
have sunk.
A couple more problems. If Shadow sinks, then Cold should do too, so
why does ice float? Well...er... Also what about Moon? Moon seems to possess
both solid and ephemeral properties, eg moonrock is solid, but moonlight that
the moonboats ride on, is not. I would see any Moon related substance as having
a bouyant property, after all Moon is attempting to take over from Air, so
moonrocks would hover off the ground (perhaps higher the larger they are). This
also explains how moonlight supports the moonboats.
On a seperate point, where do gems come from? We all know about metal
and crystals, but what about ordinary non-magical precious stones? I would
assume Asrelia has something to do with it, but what? Is she responsible for
them or merely custodian? A couple of suggestions off the top of my head - the
original gems were made by various Husband-Protectors to give to Ernalda (hence
the different types made by different gods) and they somehow ended up in
Asrelia's possession. Either Ernalda got bored (remember Venus in Baron
Munchausen?) or Asrelia intercepted them before they got to her. Or perhaps
they are some sort of Earth Spirit. Or maybe the Mostali made them (how Asrelia
got them if that is the case I don't know). Or perhaps different gems have
different origins.
Any suggestions on this would be welcome.
Si
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 24 Aug 1994
Message-ID: <940824171...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 24 Aug 94 05:18:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5853
Simon Hibbs:
>The Veldang are akin to the Vadeli, I believe.
IF the Veldang are any kin to the Vadeli, this is not evident
in their myths or history. Nor is it a fact known to either Veldgang
or Vadeli. The Veldang have a full and complex mythology none of
which bears the slightest resemblance to the Vadeli's equally complex
background.
The only resemblances I can think of are (A) the Godtime
Veldang appear to have been Not Particularly Nice and (B) the Veldang
have blue skin as does one (extinct) caste of the Vadeli.
IF the Veldang are ever proven to be the secret blue caste of
the Vadeli, I suspect this will one of those miraculous
after-the-fact Heroquest "discoveries".
NOTE: Baron von Moosehsunchen may have to play a central part in an
upcoming adventure in my campaign.
---------------------
From: rst...@mail.lmi.org
Subject: Kingdoms of Ducks
Message-ID: <9407247777....@mail.lmi.org>
Date: 24 Aug 94 17:43:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5854
Greetings!
I just saw the thread on Ducks place in the great schema and had a
question:
Sandy and gang said:
>>> I would never have an entire Duck Kingdom in a major important
>>>place in my campaign.
>>This seems to imply that Duck Valley has just been Sandied Down.
>>After all, the Ducks are a Sartarite tribe, therefore they have a
>>King, therefore it's a Kingdom.
>Eat me. You know what I meant.
Why would you be loathe to put in a major Duck group? It would be a
big hit with a younger gaming crowd. Duck bandits attacks have
provided much humorous motivation to parties of mine in the past.
In curiosity,
Rich
---------------------
From: rst...@mail.lmi.org
Subject: Moose, Elk and Deer
Message-ID: <9407247777....@mail.lmi.org>
Date: 24 Aug 94 17:49:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5855
Greetings!
Forgive me if this has already been addressed:
>From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick) Subject: Moose
>Message-ID: <_135_Tue_Aug_23_12:53:42_1...@bnr.ca>
>>kl...@diku.dk in X-RQ-ID: 5773
>><BTW why do Americans call the elk "moose"?
>According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word moose is taken
>from one of the languages of the native americans, most likely
>Narragansett or Abenaki.
Moose and Elk are quite different in appearance. I'm not sure on the
biological genus differences, but you cannot mistake a moose for an
elk when you see them (unless you are over 100 meters away in the
dark). ;-) What was the original thread that prompted this question?
Rich
---------------------
From: gad...@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois)
Subject: Prudish Americans
Message-ID: <199408241859...@CLIO.MCC.COM>
Date: 24 Aug 94 08:59:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5857
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Date: 23 Aug 94 00:59:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5802
Issue #8's cover was expurgated for the US! I wonder what they
thought of the cover for the first edition of US Pagan Publishing's
'Unspeakable Oath'!
Actually, there were two covers for the U.S. edition of Tales 8. One
was the grotty Mark Baldwin Chaos hell-pit seen in the UK edition and
the other was a much more subdued picture of a Lunar soldier drawn by
Dan Barker. There were three reasons for the two covers: 1) Worry
about sending the Baldwin cover to potential distributors and game
stores in the states. These guys really are paranoid about offending
the fundamentalist types here, and some of them are pretty uptight
themselves; 2) A clever marketing move suggested by David Hall to get
folks to buy once of each; and 3) I really liked the Barker cover, and
it reproduced better than the Baldwin one.
Since I supply the South Pacific markets, the Australian (MOB) and New
Zealand (Neil Sanson) distibutors also got a mixed batch of covers,
though I recall that MOB ordered a higher proportion of the Baldwin
cover.
--David "not Baur, Blair, Blizzard, Cake, Camoirano, Cheng, Cordes,
Cowling, DeKruger, Dunham, Edison, Hall, Hayes, Hixon, Leighton,
Millians, Pearton, Radzik, Shubert, Simkins, Straub, Wible, or Williams
but" Gadbois
---------------------
From: phea...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Moon Boat
Message-ID: <memo....@cix.compulink.co.uk>
Date: 24 Aug 94 20:34:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5858
>Tell them to look at the cover of Strangers in Prax. There are the
Coders>disembarking into Pavis, and above the moonboat is a small red
billiard >ball
>aka the Red Moon. Of course, this could just be artistic license...
Nah, that isn't the red moon. Thats the bit of moon rock that supports
the moon boat by being pulled back towards the red moon. Look at the
lines of the boat.
I always ran things so that the moon crept over the horizon as the Lunar
Empire expanded in your direction. These days the moon would definately
be visible
---------------------
From: str...@hopper.itc.virginia.edu (John Strauss)
Subject: etcetera
Message-ID: <1994082502...@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: 24 Aug 94 18:39:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5861
Kevin Rose sez:
>Sever Spirit and Resurection
> ....someone killed by a Sever Spirit was just dead. They were
>killed by the manifestation of the death rune and Resurection was
>not an option, as the spell directly conveyed their spirit to the
>final destination, the details on which I'm a little hazy.
> Anyone have any information on whether a sever spirit is
>suposed to be resurectable?
Well, no _information_ per se. Just strong opinions.
Just as there is disruption and heal, just as there is true sword
and heal body, so is there sever spirit and resurrection.
Truth is just as strong as Illusion, Life is just as strong as
Death. There is nothing a Humakti can do that a Chalanna Arroy of
equal strength cannot undo.
If a Humakt initiate cleaves a victim's head with a sword, a
Chalanna Arroy initiate has a melee round to heal the victim up to
a life-sustaining level before the tie between body and spirit
unravels. ("Well it just so happens that your friend here is only
MOSTLY dead!")
If a Humakt priest cleaves that tie, a Chalanna Arroy priest can
knit it back together. Sever Spirit and Resurrection are each 3
point rune spells and they exist in perfect counterpoint to each
other, Death and Life.
I don't doubt, for a moment, that there are Death heroes who can do
that sever spirit trick "irrevokably". At that point, I guess you
need a Life hero to fix it.
Glorantha has that kind of balance in her at the highest and lowest
levels. In the particular case of Chalanna Arroy and resurrection,
CA didn't just twiddle her thumbs during the Lightbringer quest,
arguably, that entire quest was one of resurrection. I think the
lightbringer quest is where the spell comes from in the first
place.
Besides, the interpretation range between sever spirit killing and
killing permanently is so drastic that the spell description would
HAVE to specify permanence. It doesn't.
Kieth Smith sez:
>Orlanth is given the spell of Darkwalk (which confers invisibilty
>AND silence), which all sources state he stole from Kyger Litor.
>Although Kyger Litor has no such spell, Argan Argar does. How
>does one account for this????
I am not sure I understand the question. How does one account for
what? Kyger Litor and Argan Argar, both darkness dieties, had
darkwalk. Orlanth stole darkwalk from Kyger Litor. When the dust
clears, Orlanth and Argan Argar have darkwalk and Kyger Litor does
not. If there is not an explanation in my babbling, please restate
the question.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: T.J....@soton.ac.uk (T.J.Minas)
Subject: Issaries/Etyries, etc
Message-ID: <1994082414...@mail.soton.ac.uk>
Date: 24 Aug 94 14:15:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5851
Issaries/Etyries etc
A first comment: I thought the 4th subcult was the Heralds (emphasising the
Communication, not trade aspect).
Etyries, therefore, may have been a very neglected subcult not mentioned in
the CoP writeup (as a subcult that is), due to a number of reasons: a) She's
a Lunar deity now, and would YOU, as a Lightbringer and friend of Orlanth, tell
your new worshipper's that your God's daughter defected to the enemy?; b) She's
a rival trading cult; c) Her status got really flattened by the God Learner's
imposition of the low status of women into the 2nd Age cult structure.
Remember, the stuff in CoP is not 100% absolutely accurate and concrete
information. It presents a view of those cults defined (at the time) by a world
view that tended to be very centred on DP/Prax etc. For proof that this view
is not always correct, I think I need merely mention the write-up of Yelmalio,
and the subsequent Elmal revelations! (PS does this mean that Elmal/Yelmalio
is Illuminated?)
Nick Brooke's point re the Priest at Corflu: I think that the priest had no
need to play up the similarities to get accepted at Corflu. Remember, the
Lunars and the River folk jointly establish Corflu! The River folk aren't
Orlanthi, so the priest has no need to play up any such similarities, as they
(River folk) will accept any trader I guess. Also, this chap was the High
priest of the market, ie its founder probably, as Trade rights revert to the
Ingilli after he fails to return.
The other explanations for the Etyries being stuck with the curse seem more
likely to me.
===============
Moon over Pavis
I'm damn sure you can see it in Pavis for 3 reasons:
1) How did the Lunars win at Moonbroth if you can't see it? (No moon = No
Lunar magic!)
2) How do they stay in control of Pavis/Prax, have a temple of the 7 mothers
there, etc if you can't see it? (Same as above)
3) No visible moon= no moonboat to come and visit.
As a heavenly body, I suspect that the Red Moon is visible all over
Gloarantha, its just that in Pamaltela (say) they have never heard of her
cults, etc
===============
Sever Spirit/Resurrection
I think you are just normally dead from a Sever Spirit, ie resurrectable
as ever. Of course, as a Humakti, if you are dead, you are DEAD, remember?
Also, there is a Humakti subcult that has a Divine SPell (2pt, I think)
called "Stop Resurrection", that prevents the target from being resurrected in
any way, via Resurrection, or being made into a Zombie or Vampire. If Sever
Spirit killed you outright, I don't think you'd need this.
Humakt's Einherjar (Spirit Legion of Warriors) is open only to those Humakti
who have served him faithfully in life, as far as I can see. So Sever Spirit
certainly wouldn't send you there, unless, of course, you were a Humakti!
===============
DP Magic
Joerg: The counters in the game are for convenience, mainly. They
represent the ability of the unit to project it's magical power somewhere. The
Sylphs are indeed unique as a physical agent with a different name to their
"parent" unit.
When I said MgF is Pow, stored mps, availability of spells like Shield,
Countermagic etc, I was talking about MgF of NON-magician units, or those with
DSM only.
Preparedness. Of course the Lunar units are prepared, they have been in
existence and training for years just to fight battles and refine their
techniques. Once you've summoned your spirits/elementals/etc, and placed them
in the bindings, they are ready. And as for having enough bindings, matrices
etc, the Lunar units probably have more than most, having been able to inherit
all those produced by their predecessors in the units.
Sartar magical units are indeed weird. Everyone was surprised by how Argrath
managed to get whole heaps of strange people to cooperate.
Incidentally, Joerg, apparently Sartar's Priests have access to Discorporate
(according to a letter I have from Sandy several years ago, in which he also
outlined the Tarsh unit the MoonHater's, and a tribal magician unit. See E-
mail to you)
==============
Bless Crops
Perhaps the fields in Sun County are real small (N. Smith) because the
place is such a crap place to grow stuff (Alex Ferguson). Therefore, maybe
Bless Crops allows an increase in fertility per area. Eg, it will raise one
acre from "poor" fertility to "average". But, in Sun County, the soil is really
crap, so one Bless Crops spell (in order to get to "average" fertility) only
covers the small fields there. Of course, what this means is, you could cast
say 10 pts of the spell over all the fields of your village, generally helping
all the land, but not by much. Or, you could cast it on a smaller area,
boosting those areas by rather more. In really fertile places, casting Bless
crops would produce super duper crops!
Incidentally, if the areas that require Bless Crops most are kind of like
Northern Europe, and thus leave a third of the land fallow, you are only having
to cast the spell on 2/3 rds the land anyway! Doesn't anyone grow leguminous
crops in Glorantha? I want my Mushy peas and chips! (A speciality, I'm sure,
but there must be at least ONE decent "Chippie" in Pavis' Riverside!)
==============
Sanctify
I certainly don't picture this spell continuing for ever. I guess that,
unless either the caster, or a worshipped altar, remains in the area of effect,
the Sanctify drops. Thus, the Praxian temples are OK.
For permanent temples, I don't think it's a Sanctify spell, as a) this has
a really awkward Spherical shape; and b) All spells stop when you are dead,
realistically (A 15min Shield will keep going if you die after 2 mins, but I
don't think a long term ritual would). So, I propose that a temple gains its
Sanctity by the continuing acts of worship there. A temple that has no
Successful Worship (X) spell cast in it at a Holy Day loses its Sanctified
status until such is performed again on the next Holy Day. (If you are really
unkind, a failed ceremony on a HHD could mean that it is out for a YEAR!)
==============
That's about it for this time. Just one final comment, as we are discussing
the great David experiment, and commenting on similar abilities for similar
names, I propose that I am the holder of the Benign "Tim" rune, and the Tim
Leask holds the Malighn "Tim" rune!
That's it for now
Tim Minas
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Re: Sandy on traders and antlers
Message-ID: <H.ea.x4N...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 24 Aug 94 18:44:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5856
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 5833
> SANDY'S SPECULATIVE HISTORY OF THE ETYRIES/ISSARIES CULT
finally provides me something to fire at again.
> FIRST AGE: Etyries was one of the Four Sacred Subcults of
> Issaries. I'm not sure exactly what her role was, but it might have
> been Enhancer of Value, in which she'd take some item, fancy it up,
> and then it would be worth more when Garzeen took it to sell.
Not at all my picture.
Dragon Pass: Here we have Harst, god of local trade and inventor of
the Theyalan language, and Issaries, messenger god, pathfinder and
Lightbringer. Issaries and the troll hunter god Zong are instrumental
in spreading the Theyalan message of the Compromise and the methods
of theistic worship. Trade isn't as much Issaries' province as is
bribing.
Seshnela: Here the trade god Garzeen becomes enamoured of Fenela,
and pledges himself to the (usual) impossible groom-task. IMO this
doesnt preclude a marriage, but is more like a built-in clause to
allow later separation again - after all, this part hasn't been
fulfilled. As long as steps are taken, the marriage takes place.
For an example, Greg's story about the Pelandan girl in his upcoming
Lunar book, read at the lecture at Convulsions, had her marry the
Emperor of Dara Happa even though he had not yet found her father -
he only promised to look for him, and sent out his servants.
I have no idea where Goldentongue hails from, or Herald.
Etyries: needn't have existed in the 1st Age. If she existed, I'd locate
her in southern Peloria (Vanch or Sylila) among the earth cultists.
> SECOND AGE: The God-Learners settled on Issaries as a highly
> useful cult for their purposes, and proceeded to edit said cult to
> perfect it.
I agree with this, however from my starting point.
The God Learners realized that they had a lot of trade and
communication deities to work upon to get one trade god for their
expanding trade empire (not yet political). So they took the most
widespread deity, Issaries the Lightbringer path-finder, and made
all the local (and somewhat incompatible) trade gods into subcults.
In the 3rd Age the GL-tampered cult remained. A woman called (being
the avatar of) Etyries joined the Lunar pantheon, and made ties between
the Issaries cult and the Lunar religion.
Horned Tradetalk, or divided by a common (?) language:
> Alex Ferguson
>>[elk are] Not like what kind of deer, exactly? They're in the deer
>>family, last time I checked. Maybe I've lost the thread of this
>>thread, but doesn't it blithely state in G:G that there are Elk
>>hsunchen in Pralorela?
> When an American (the bulk of native English speakers in the
> world), such as Greg S. or Sandy P. uses the word "elk" he is not
> referring to the beastie with palmate antlers, a swollen nose, and
> huge size -- the largest of all deer. Instead, he is referring to
> Cervus elaphus, which is large and potentially dangerous, and a
> small, puny, variety of which is known in England as the "red deer".
Not being a native speaker, I might be considered impartial in this
matter. Fact is that while there might be more native speakers of
Tradetalk in the US, there are far more users of Tradetalk over here
in Europe. Elk to Europeans is the swamp-dwelling thing; cervus elaphus
is non-European and unexpected in Europeanish context.
Maybe Greg intended differently for the use of elk, but like famous
slips as "Not Yet", the metropolis of Esrolia, this might have developed
alife of its own.
> Elk are behaviorally and genetically not similar to American
> whitetail or mule deer. I can't speak for fallow deer. Elk are in the
> same family as mule deer, but so are moose, so your argument that
> Pralori should be moose "to make them more different than the Damali"
> holds little water.
Hmm. Fallow deer lives quite hapily in the culture wastes of Central
Europe, outside the forests. It would even be encountered in Esrolia.
Elk (in the European meaning) would be right at home in the forested,
river-cut hilland of Wenelia and Pralorela since it was so in the
core region of the Slavs - roughly on the same latitude as London
or Paris.
> Yes, there are elk Hsunchen in Pralorela. They are Cervus
> elaphus. There are also moose Hsunchen in Pralorela, and Fronela, and
> anywhere else that has cold swamplands for them to enjoy. But they
> are less numerous than the Pralori, who are proper elks.
The swamps needn't be that cold - temperate Europe like Poland or
Belorussland makes perfect habitat for the moose definition of elk,
not just an overgrown variant of the red deer.
Does this definition cover the (presumed extinct) plains elk of the
Praxian history? Prax and the Wastes with all their bogs and marshes,
even though chaos infested, make an elk of the European variety as
likely as just another big antelope.
> Damali = [small] deer (I'm not sure what type, but I don't
> picture them as fallow deer).
I picture a tribe of woodland hunters, averaging around 1.45 metres,
dressed in pseudo-Slavic leather clothing.
> Pralori = Cervus elaphus, a member of the deer family.
Should this be true, I deny to use any Pralori in my piece about
Ygg's Isles. I want sinister elk people, who can make a shield of
the antler by cutting off the toothy bits, who can swim between the
islands, etc. People tall enough to tower even over Ygglinga.
> Bullwinklings = moose, also members of the deer family.
Who is this Bullwinkle? What's so funny about a beast likely to crush
the upper half of your car when you crash into it, including the
upper half of the passengers? A beast able to look Alex and me in the
eyes when it lowers its head? A beast able to scare the heck out of
today's overgrown cattle, not to speak about the smaller (about Merino
sheep-sized, or Galloway) cattle the Gloranthans have? And yet able to
hide mere 20 paces from you, right within sight?
Sorry, this escapes me. You could as well call horses ridiculous because
of Jolly Jumper or Mr Ed.
And you forgot the Uncolings, the reindeer people of the tundra, who
subsisted even against constant concurrence by trolls. I take these deer
people (all of the above) as tough, and very unpleasant if aroused.
Avoid them in mating season!
> I wouldn't be surprised if Trowjang had Hsunchen of the mouse
> deer tribe. Itty bitty antlerless deer with huge fangs.
The men, or the beasts?
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: 10027...@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Misc.
Message-ID: <940824211311_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 24 Aug 94 21:13:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5859
______
Sandy:
I liked the Speculative History of Issaries & Etyries, especially the God
Learners shaping the cult to mimic Western social classes, and the parallel
with the Seven Mothers' development.
______________________
Eric Johnson-DeBaufre:
"Lords of Terror" will be an expanded and rveised "Cults of Terror,"
including some new full-form cult writeups and many new Chaos deities
(presented with their key rune spells, like the Troll Spirit Cults). Each
major cult is followed by an NPC rune level native to Dorastor, and several
scenario hooks. Thanatar (in "Shadows on the Borderlands") and Vivamort
(planned for inclusion in a forthcoming scenario pack called "Tower of
Night") are absent; there are LOTS of additional details on Nysalor/Gbaji
and the Path of Illumination to supplement the writeup in "Dorastor: Land
of Doom". And, of course, an expansion for the cult of Kyger Litor. <g>
Other Recent Releases: Tales of the Reaching Moon #12, Codex #2, and (I
believe) RuneQuest Adventures #4 all came out in recent months. Greg's
"Dara Happan Book of Emperors" is probably available from Wizard's Attic as
I write -- details of how to order by phone are in the back of most recent
Chaosium products.
______
Klaus:
[re: Sultans/Satraps]
> Isn't that just the translator who has changed his mind about what the
> best word is?
No. We know Carmanians had Satraps and Pentans had Sultans. Two separate
titles. I was trying to reconcile the dilemma so anyone, anywhere, could
"correctly" use either title for those rulers of bits of the Heartlands.
(Your real-world argument, though correct, would ignore the Gloranthan
situations Greg's original usage and partial justification of "Sultans"
created. We cannot all be gaming within one translator's mind, surely!)
_______
Peter M objected to my ejaculation, "useless labels everywhere!"
> I would appreciate it if you gave a fuller account of what you disliked.
Ho hum. What I meant was that, in the absense of any specific cultural and
temporal context, your musings on Antirius and Elmal were of no practical
value to me.
RW example: "Zeus was worshipped as a werewolf; Jupiter was not; therefore
Zeus is not Jupiter, or is not a werewolf." Discuss.
Myth happens inside peoples' heads. It is an outgrowth of culture and
expectations. Words, values, customs, all change and influence what we
believe happens among the gods. If something is IMPORTANT in my life, I
want myths about it. If something is DISGUSTING to my culture, I censor or
ignore myths about it that I might otherwise have used. Greg's recent work,
especially poor old Plentonius with his hang-ups, exemplifies this.
Gloranthan example: "How important are horses, elves and trolls to the Sun
County Yelmalions, given that none of them are found nearby?" Discuss.
Tracing a path through myths without also working out who believes in each
step and link along it -- or, in many cases, when those links were first
recognised -- is not a particularly useful pastime.
> Plainspeak: Dendara will not marry Antirius because she mourns for Yelm.
> Ernalda will marry Elmal because Orlanth's away.
Agreed, Dendara is a goddess of wifely fidelity, far more so than Ernalda
(an Imperial Concubine rescued by mighty-thewed Orlanth the Barbarian, and
already known for dallying with at least one of his thanes). However, the
muths that would make Ernalda "marry" Elmal are presumably of Tarkalor's
vintage. I would have no problem with yet another thane-adultery myth to
parallel the Heler story (this would of course be the Heler- or Elmal-
worshipper's let-in to the Spring fertility ceremonies).
When Orlanth's away on the LBQ, Ernalda is asleep (and/or dead). Previous
absences are unlikely to have been "long enough" (read, "significant
enough") for any cycle of "marriage myths" to have grown up. Of course,
it's possible Elmal {takes Yelm's place/originally held Yelm's place} in
the myths of Orlanth's wooing and winning of Ernalda: a rival, probably in
myths on a more rustic/clan level than tales of the Emperor and his
Concubine. And given Orlanthi year-marriages (and the like), I'd not be
surprised to see a cycle of marriage-myths where Ernalda takes different
"husbands" (on a trial basis?) and ends by preferring Orlanth (in the usual
version). Could be fun to write.
> For the simple among you: Antirius does not get Rune Spells from Dendara
> (assumed). Yelmalio does. How can Yelmalio be Antirius?
Hmm. I think even "the simple among us" can see the fallacies in this house
of cards.
Note that I DO NOT BELIEVE "Antirius is Yelmalio". But I also don't think
that harping on every perceived (and/or assumed) similarity or difference
between their mythologies is useful. Likewise Dendara/Ernalda. Try this on,
and you will (and do) tie yourself up in knots, distory "known" myth, and
discard useful snippets of cultural information.
We're talking:
"Entekos is Molanni, so Entekos is not the Mother of Moons. Plentonius and
the Dara Happans were wrong, and I shall ignore their descriptions."
versus:
"We don't know much about Molanni, a foreign goddess already known in First
Age Dara Happa. But she seems similar to a Dara Happan goddess called
'Entekos', 'Right Air', whose titles in the First Age included 'Mother of
Moons'. I wonder what this means..."
Incidentally, the collection of pre-Lunar moon myths that Greg read from at
Convulsion is called the "Entekosiad". Make of that what you will.
Elmal:
I am keen to discover what role is played by the Elmal worshipper(s) within
a "standard Orlanthi clan". I think this will be a better guide to how the
god fits into Orlanthi society and mythology than the "Elmal-only" clans
are; a more generally-useful thing to discover. I agree, whole-heartedly,
that the idea of One Universal Cult Write-Up applicable to every situation
is a vile God Learner aberration, and am sorry if our disparate wires
crossed over this issue.
I was impressed with your suggestion of triatic (or similar) systems where
the Elmali clan would provide soldiers to guard other clans of their tribe
in the absence of their warriors. This neatly prefigures the "mercenary"
ethos which the Sun Dome Temple of Dragon Pass subsequently embodies.
____________
Simon Hibbs:
> The Veldang are akin to the Vadeli, I believe.
Not so, IMHO. Please don't believe this, as if you do it might come true,
and then the Blue Vadeli would be back in horrible numbers...
> Perhaps every cult has a quest to become a child of the god(dess)?
Agreed, fulsomely.
====
Nick
====
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: mcar...@fit.qut.edu.au (Robert McArthur)
Subject: Re: Dragon Pass regimental magic in RQ and other terms
Message-ID: <1994082502...@ocean.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 25 Aug 94 22:12:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5860
>
> Tim Minas in Status: O
>
> > a) The Lunars. With access to all the elementals except Sylphs, Lunar magic,
> > Sorcery, and strange Lunar Divine spells, these units are easy to see in RQ
> > terms. They are bands of cooperating initiates in the Red Goddess cult, or
> > special Lunar Cults (eg Crater Makers), who can be sorcerors, Shamans, Rune
> > Priests, or whatever combination of these they want. Anyone REALLY want me to
> > expand on that?
>
> Not exactly. There is no combination of ordinary RQ personal magic which
> reproduces the fight of the regimental spirits (in case of magicians
> detachable, for some other units fighting back in defense only, mostly
> just offering passive defense). Neither do the (unsatisfying IMO) RQ3
> spirit combat rules, not even if we revive the RQ2 common divine spell
> Discorporation. The only spirit or elemental type remotely resembling
> this attack form are Annilla's Selenes, and I wouldn't make them
> even Lunar common issue combat spirits.
>
> > b) The Sartar units. Exanmple 1: The Stormwalkers. These are a collection of
> > priests of Orlanth and various other storm/air/rain deities (Heler, Vadrus,
> > Valind? etc) and Elementals and Spirits of the appropriate type. Their special
> > ability is to call a flood, which I posit they do by casting huge amounts of
> > Increase Cloud Cover and then Rain spells as necessary. This, of course, burns
> > up their Rune magic for the period of the game, thus "removing" their spirit.
>
> Yes, this exotic magic (and several others) can be explained as Rune
> Magic stacked beyond any individual's limit.
>
> > Example 2: The Windchildren. These really are a group of Windchild priests
> > etc of Orlanth/storm deities. Remember that windchildren have an innate +50
> > bonus to control Sylphs, hence their spirit counter (The Sylphs) literally is
> > a whole buch of Sylphs.
>
> And they are the only elemental counter in the game. In Nomad Gods the
> Whirlvishes might count as such, too, but that's it with regular elementals
> in the DP-like games.
>
> > Example 3: The Tribal magicians (Flash Jak, And-jay, Krise). These are a load
> > of Shamans, Orlanthi acolytes and priests from the Pol-joni or other nomad
> > tribes. They use lots of spirits and a few elementals.
>
> Such as? Please detail this (in private mail), to give one example, and
> the exact mechanic involved.
>
> > A few notes when looking at all this. The Units with spirits (ie true
> > Magician units) tend to come from elemental cults using elementals and very
> > powerful spells that affect the weather/land etc. The weird collections of
> > people that Argrath managed to arrange into his magical units are a real bunch
> > of strange guys, as it says somewhere, crazed priests, wandering monks,
> > outlawed sorcerors etc. Argrath's leadership abilities and conciliation has
> > obviously allowed some saner minds to work out interesting combinations of how
> > to combine all these effects.
>
> I disagree. Argrath's spirit magician regiments are working the same way
> as do the Exile, Dragonewt or Lunar units (apart from the cyclical
> effects). Ipso facto only spells equally available to all these cultures
> would be usable - which would reduce the choice to common divine magic.
> The alternative would be a different system. Since we know aobout
> regimental spirits, I think this would be the way to go. If this is
> true, maybe the Malkioni would use physical magic instead, not being
> big in the spirit department.
>
> > Note that there is no suggestion of a Solar magical unit (the Sun Dome
> > Templars have no spirit), and whilst some of the Lunar units may have Solar
> > priests, I submit that they do not rely on Sunspear etc. Ditto the Humakti. The
> > Swordbrothers unit gets to use Defensive Spirit magic, but I doubt that that
> > really includes much Sever Spirit etc. Such spells probably add more to the CF
> > of a unit, rather than its MgF.
>
> There aren't any temple defenses either, although I feel that temples
> ought to have immobile spirits as temple defenses. Something along the
> lines X - X - 8 - 0 in DP terms.
>
> > Generally, I think the MgF represents the level of Battle Magic available to
> > units, their POW and level of stored MPs, availability of spells like Shield
> > etc. Magician units are unusual because they can project their attack across
> > a significant distance, usually via discorporation, sorcery (Or Lunar magic)(or
> > even a proposed Divine spell of Ranging!?) and elementals and spirits.
>
> Then how do you explain that magicians may detach their spirit to protect
> a different stack?
>
> > Remember that both sides are pretty well prepared for this war,
>
> The Lunars aren't really prepared. The Dragon awakened took out their
> most effective Solar magicians from among those who fought at Pennel
> Ford where they only had been thwarted by Harrek's divine powers.
>
> > and so have
> > been sacrificing for the spells they need, making matrices and binding
> > enchantments, summoning spirits and elementals to their bindings etc for quite
> > a while before hand. Then you control a spirit, mindlink with it, send it off
> > to scout around and find the enemy, then use its senses to cast your spells at
> > the targets. To deliver elementals to distant targets, use birds (your
> > familiars?) to carry the binding enchantments nearby, then release the
> > elementals and control them via the senses of your familiar etc.
>
> I see no indications of elementals fighting, except for the sylphs. They
> use the physical magic rules, so this is not your average magicians'
> spirit.
>
> > Second up: Rune spell renewal.
>
> My take on it: Spells cast during a worship ceremony are automatically
> regained the next day. Make your magicians' attack a communal worship...
>
> --
> -- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
>
> ---------------------
>
---------------------
From: jme...@zycor.lgc.com (johnjmedway)
Subject: Wyters and Sorcerors and Shamans, Oh My!
Message-ID: <1994082506...@cs.utexas.edu>
Date: 24 Aug 94 20:40:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5862
re: T.J....@soton.ac.uk (T.J.Minas) in X-RQ-ID: 5789
[position on DP magic deleted for brevity]
You've partitioned the magicians by allegiance. The primary partition
should be by mechanism, which does not yield the same results. After the
first splitting, I end up with the sets of what I call "Intrinsic Magic"
users, Divine Physical Magic (and agents), Sorcerous Physical Magic (and
agents), and Wyters.
Intrinsic Magic:
----------------
Almost all regiments or other large "units" have some kind of magical
abilities. There are enough spirit magic dabblers and initiates who realize
that "one use" may as well be now, and rune lord/priest/muckitymucks in any
decent unit that there may very well be some Sun Spears, Lightning Bolts,
etc., cast in battle.
Most of their effort will go toward lasting effects, such as Protection,
bladesharp, etc. After all the "hoplite scrum" in which many of these folks
will find themselves can be a longish gruelling fight. A few quick shots
before closing will not necessarily be of as much benefit, especially if
the targeting is uncoordinated.
Essentially it implies essentially no ability to project coordinated force,
at any distance greater than normal spirit or divine magic range, which on
the field isn't very impressive. Essentially I view it as alternately
acting as skirmisher-style harassing fire or boosting of normal attacks
and defenses.
These include at least all of the DP units with a '0' for the RF, which can
use "DSM", and should be found among almost all of the lists. I'd argue
this should include quite a number more.
Physical Magic and Physical Agents:
-----------------------------------
These are either sorcerors from the Moon, Carmania or other icky places, or
are as Tim suggested a whole big gob of elemental summoning and
controlling spells from divine magic users.
Divine magic users get screwed in a campaign, as can happen to the Storm
Walkers, because of the problem regenerating the Rune
Spells/RunePower/whatever. This should also happen to the Storm Walkers,
Wind Children, and any other unit relying upon divine magic, (such as the
Dara Happan Solar magicians which Joerg mentioned) whether or not they have
or use some exotic attack.
Sorcerors, such as the Crater Makers are probably restricted to one use of
the meteor swarm per game for one or more of:
1) play balance
2) need a ceremony to recharge a whole helluva lot of MP matrices
The effects are much the same: a physical attack for which neither
Intrinsic Magic, nor a Wyter, provides an effective, wide-spread defense.
Wyters
------
These are the communal spirits which I remember Joerg first mentioning.
Essentially the entire unit sacrifices power into this mega-fetch-thing,
and it acts as at least an equivalent of the Intrinsic Magic listed above
(these are the RF=0 units from DP).
The real value is only understood when it is a wyter from a magician unit.
This implies training and coordination, so that the wyter becomes a strike
weapon, not just an umbrella. The wyter attacks the other units spirit or
spirits, and if victorious starts munching on the troops with spirit spells
and spirit attacks.
These are essentially the only way for *large-scale* coordinated spirit
magic at any range. The collection of familiars flying/crawling/slithering
along could fairly easily be shot to pieces, as they are independant, and
independantly defended, targets. (Remember your bat has to get within
disruption range to cast his spells on the enemy. How many HP does he
have?) Also, that's a helluva big mindlink spell.
Wyters are something RQ cannot even attempt to describe in any real way.
-----
Joerg Baumgartner in X-RQ-ID: 5808
jb>> Not exactly. There is no combination of ordinary RQ personal magic which
jb>> reproduces the fight of the regimental spirits (in case of magicians
jb>> detachable, for some other units fighting back in defense only, mostly
jb>> just offering passive defense). Neither do the (unsatisfying IMO) RQ3
jb>> spirit combat rules, not even if we revive the RQ2 common divine spell
jb>> Discorporation. The only spirit or elemental type remotely resembling
jb>> this attack form are Annilla's Selenes, and I wouldn't make them
jb>> even Lunar common issue combat spirits.
Agreed. These are not properly handled by the low-level magic rules in RQ.
Just as other cooperative rituals, such as Bless Crops, don't seem to work
quit right.
jb>> Example 3: The Tribal magicians (Flash Jak, And-jay, Krise). These are a load
jb>> ...
jb>> Such as? Please detail this (in private mail), to give one example, and
jb>> the exact mechanic involved.
And forward it to me, too.
jb>> I disagree. Argrath's spirit magician regiments are working the same way
jb>> as do the Exile, Dragonewt or Lunar units (apart from the cyclical
jb>> effects). Ipso facto only spells equally available to all these cultures
jb>> would be usable - which would reduce the choice to common divine magic.
That doesn't seem like a good assumption. At the abstract scale of DP, or
even closer in, in a miniatures game, the differences between the effects
of Shimmer v. Protection v. Dullblade on you oppponent just don't show up.
There's no reason to suggest that the spells must be common. Without the
special effects, how much difference is there between a Lightning Bolt
barrage, or a Sun spear barrage.
jb>> The alternative would be a different system. Since we know aobout
jb>> regimental spirits, I think this would be the way to go. If this is
jb>> true, maybe the Malkioni would use physical magic instead, not being
jb>> big in the spirit department.
That makes perfect sense, though I hadn't even thought about how the West
fights their battles. They may also simply boost their knights, as it may
be more cost-effective.
jb>> The Lunars aren't really prepared. The Dragon awakened took out their
jb>> most effective Solar magicians from among those who fought at Pennel
jb>> Ford where they only had been thwarted by Harrek's divine powers.
Pennel Ford? Tell me more!
jb>> I see no indications of elementals fighting, except for the sylphs. They
jb>> use the physical magic rules, so this is not your average magicians'
jb>> spirit.
Also remember the discussion from last fall: The DP counter mix isn't
everything. By Nick's calculations, the Lunars had quite a bit more than is
in the mix, though it is assumed that much of it was busy elsewhere.
There should be more to the LCM, just as there was more to the standard
mix. Not necessarily in the same proportion, though. (Crater-makers are
*not* all that useful in a police action, not unless you want another
Beirut, that is.)
Though your calculations showed the Esrolians & Co. to be even more massive
than the Lunars, we should not expect to find any real magic units there.
Except the guys who focused the Pharoah's energies on building The Wall.
Sidenote #1: Anybody got a better name to use instead of "Intrinsic"?
Sidenote #2: What additional physical magics and/or exotic effects would
be reasonable to assume existed in the Empire or the West? (I am assuming
that the DP counter mix is essentially all there is for the Sartarites.)
-----
Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 5798
nb>> David, MOB: Peebles the Cat has Xenohealed.
What was wrong with Peebles?
nb>> ___________________________
nb>> Sultans and Satraps, oh my!
nb>>
nb>> Molari Slor is shown at what is the extreme end of the Oraya Sultanate
nb>> (or Satrapy - how and why did the name get changed?)
nb>>
nb>> Apocryphally, Greg realised he had been "using the wrong name" for fifteen
nb>> years, felt embarrassed by his mistake, and changed it.
He Gregged himself. Nice.
nb>> I like both Sultans (oriental decadance) and Satraps (Carmanian nobility),
nb>> so I did some work reconciling the two. Here's my own personal belief:
Nicely done rehabilitation of "Sultan" deleted.
Thanks Nick. Now I can use Sultanate again, and not feel guilty.
(I guess I'm one of the conservative Old Sun Party types.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
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More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
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---------------------
From: mcar...@fit.qut.edu.au (Robert McArthur)
Subject: Re: Wyters and Sorcerors and Shamans, Oh My!
Message-ID: <1994082507...@ocean.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 26 Aug 94 03:53:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5863
John Medway on DP magic
>
> Intrinsic Magic:
> ----------------
> Physical Magic and Physical Agents:
> -----------------------------------
> Wyters
> ------
I think that the major magics - the exotics and chaotic - are different
to even the massive size normal magics. The Red Emperor with the chemical
transformer can make large holes but, and here's the big butt, the superheroes
have special relationships to anything other than normal magic. Even the
hugest blast from the RE can't touch Harreck (in the rules...)
So, I think there's something more to the exotics than just hyped up "normal"
magic.
Robert
---------------------
From: jo...@hyphen.com (Jon Green)
Subject: A lone voice, crying in the wildebeest
Message-ID: <2374.94...@diss.hyphen.com>
Date: 25 Aug 94 09:44:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5864
I note we haven't heard much from Devin recently. At last I have uncovered
the reason! "Devin" is in fact a False David, whose identity has become
hopelessly lost in the Great Davids Muddle!
<gdr>
---------------------
From: jonas....@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Tying up a thread.
Message-ID: <940825124...@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 25 Aug 94 16:47:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5866
>From: rst...@mail.lmi.org
>Subject: Moose, Elk and Deer
> What was the original thread that prompted this question?
The suggestion was made that the Elk hsunchen (Pralori) are really Moose.
After a lot of bickering and bad jokes, we have all (?) agreed that there
_are_ Moose hsunchen, but they're not the Pralori (not as numerous, for one
thing). My name for them, which was invented by one of the co-designers of
our local campaign, and has also been pushed by my faithful henchman, Dave
Dunham :-), is "Aleci".
Now that that's established, and the aforementioned jokes are out of our
respective systems, can we drop this?
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: More DP magic
Message-ID: <H.ea.6QY...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 25 Aug 94 13:29:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5868
Tim Minas in X-RQ-ID: 5851
> DP Magic
> Joerg: The counters in the game are for convenience, mainly. They
> represent the ability of the unit to project it's magical power somewhere. The
True, but they also attack very differently from any physical effect. IMO
at least some elementals mostly are thwarted by physical defenses to
some extent, so they should attack the combat factors, not magic factors.
> Sylphs are indeed unique as a physical agent with a different name to their
> "parent" unit.
They are one of three physical agents in the game. Were there more, we
might have more different names. I know of a proposed NG counter which
shoots out physical agents called spores. While I forgot the counter name,
it was different from spores. Lightning Boy's agent is called lightning.
> When I said MgF is Pow, stored mps, availability of spells like Shield,
> Countermagic etc, I was talking about MgF of NON-magician units, or those with
> DSM only.
This much we agree upon, although all of this influences a wyter as well.
> Preparedness. Of course the Lunar units are prepared, they have been in
> existence and training for years just to fight battles and refine their
> techniques. Once you've summoned your spirits/elementals/etc, and placed them
> in the bindings, they are ready. And as for having enough bindings, matrices
> etc, the Lunar units probably have more than most, having been able to inherit
> all those produced by their predecessors in the units.
KoS tells us about the heavy losses the Lunar College of Magic takes at
the defeat at Pennel Ford. Harrek gained possession of all the gold of
the Solar magicians who tried to Sunburn/Skyspear him, and probably
all the matrices as well. The Dragon at the opening ceremony at the
Sartar Temple of the Reaching Moon ate whole units, and their enchantments
as well. What the Lunars field against Argrath are partly replacement
troops, partly units stationed elsewhere.
> Sartar magical units are indeed weird. Everyone was surprised by how Argrath
> managed to get whole heaps of strange people to cooperate.
I have the suspicion that his journey around Glorantha with Harrek was a
reenactment of Orlanth's role in the Vadrudi host during Godtime. Argrath
tries to become the avatar of Orlanth. Orlanth had this nifty Ring of the
Vingkotlings magic, and he created Ginna Jar as the wyter of the
Lightbringers. I think Argrath makes use of all these things from
Orlanth myth, by active power HQing. Plus a couple of new twists, which
makes him different from ordinary Orlanthi HQers like Brian or Kallyr.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: jcla...@mathlab.mtu.edu (Joe Lannom)
Subject: I need ragnaglar info
Message-ID: <940825141...@mathlab.mtu.edu>
Date: 25 Aug 94 14:11:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5869
Hi folks
I'm looking for something akin to a cult write up for Ragnaglar. I
know, I know, he's dead... but that doesn't stop anyone from
worshipping gbaji, why should it get in the way of several broo
shaped fanatics?
Anyone with any speculation as to what he was like as a god, his
powers, any divine spells he might have bestowed to worshippers
before he was killed.
History notes would be great, I know what he did to annoy the whole
Orlanth clan, etc, but before that, after the great 'pit' incident
and before the rape of Thed are sketchy.
Please either post here, or send e-mail.
Thanks!
joe
---------------------
From: ni...@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Moose mania & a weird thought
Message-ID: <940825155...@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 25 Aug 94 19:50:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5870
Nils Weinander writing
Expect lots of typos in this message. I seem to do everything wrong today.
Some thoughts on the great moose/elk debate:
It seems as though americans and europeans have different opinions on
this animal. Just to be totally explicit, I'm talking about Alces Alces,
the huge deer.
Those of american origin who have expressed their views on the elk/moose
find it funny, those of european origin don't. That's really interesting.
In swedish folklore or whatever you wish to call it, the elk/moose is
regarded as the king of the animals, nothing comic or silly there, just
majestic.
Joerg wrote:
>Who is this Bullwinkle? What's so funny about a beast likely to crush
>the upper half of your car when you crash into it, including the
>upper half of the passengers? A beast able to look Alex and me in the
>eyes when it lowers its head? A beast able to scare the heck out of
>today's overgrown cattle, not to speak about the smaller (about Merino
>sheep-sized, or Galloway) cattle the Gloranthans have? And yet able to
>hide mere 20 paces from you, right within sight?
I agree completely. A bull elk/moose is about 230 cm high, weighs in
at say 500 kg. Yet it moves silently as a ghost. To meet such a beast
in the forest is a great experience, and they _don't_ look silly in
their natural surroundings.
As an interesting sidenote: the swedish 17th century king Karl XI set
up a small troop of elk/moose cavalry. They functioned mainly as
messengers and were rather successful, but the experiment didn't last
because it was difficult to get enough animals (and presumably not
that easy to domesticate them).
_____
The other day I had a really weird thought on Gloranthan magic. It has
been posited in most heroquest speculations that on the heroplane/godtime
time doesn't flow, and consequently natural processes like death, MP
recovery etc. don't occur. When you can't regain MP in a normal way,
you are not likely to spend them as freely. A heroquest is one thing,
that's (hopefully) a temporary visit to the timeles world, but before
the Dawn I guess that the situation was different.
This would mean that spirit magic and sorcery, as they are performed
in the third age, are rather recent innovations. Of the modern day
Gloranthan magic only divine magic doesn't rely on MPs and would thus
be the only magic which existed/looked the same before time.
Now, I'm not saying it really works like this, but the implications
are so weird that I had to write this down for some debate on it. So,
what do you think?
_____
/Nils W
---------------------
From: dave_cordes@cl_63smtp_gw.chinalake.navy.mil (Dave Cordes)
Subject: Trollball and Moose
Message-ID: <9408251650.AA16976@Sun.COM>
Date: 25 Aug 94 00:22:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5871
CL QM-SMTP gw Trollball and Moose
From Sandy (X-RQ-ID: 5844):
>>Who would be the ball?
Are you volunteering?
----------
David Gadbois (X-RQ-ID: 5857):
>> --David "not Baur, Blair, Blizzard, Cake, Camoirano, Cheng, Cordes,
>>Cowling, DeKruger, Dunham, Edison, Hall, Hayes, Hixon, Leighton,
>>Millians, Pearton, Radzik, Shubert, Simkins, Straub, Wible, or Williams
>>but" Gadbois
Wow, You're much better at this than I am.
-------------
Concerning Moose and Elk:
In America: an Elk is an Elk, and a Moose is a Moose (Unless it's a
cartoon, then it's a bullwinkle).
In Europe: a Moose is an Elk, and an Elk is a Red Deer.
So what's the problem. It's just the same old difference in point of
view. Just as the Europeans don't mind the Lunars and us rebellious upstart
Americans think they are the "Evil Menace".
Using American terms: elk (Cervus canadensis) are big: 350 kg(770 lbs),
1.5 m(5 ft) at the shoulder, 2.4 m(8 ft) long. Males can have antlers that
span 1.5 m(5 ft), weight around 45 kg (100 lbs), and have 5-10 spikes per
side. They have a grayish brown coat and a white rump. They are believed by
many experts to be the same species as the European Red Deer (Cervus
elaphus). They have been overhunted and now exist in the wild only in
southern Canada, the Rocky Mountains and the Central Valley of California
(this being the small tule elk).
Again using American terms: Moose (Alces alces) are the largest of the
deer family (Cervidae). In Europe they are called by the old Germanic name -
Elk. Moose run 825 kg (1800 lbs), 2.3 m (7.5 ft) at the shoulder, and 3.1 m
(10ft) long. Bulls typically have large broad spoon-shaped spiked antlers.
Which may be 1.8 m (6 ft) across. Massive animal with a large head, an
elongated overhanging muzzle, and a long flap of skin, called a bell, that
hangs beneath the throat. They frequent moist forests of willows, poplars
and birch. They also wade into lakes to graze on aquatic plants.
We all seem to be argueing about the same two animals. Just different
names. All in all I have to agree with Joerg (Heaven help me):
>>...beast likely to crush the upper half of your car when you crash into
>>it, including the upper half of the passengers? A beast able to look Alex
>>and me in the eyes when it lowers its head? A beast able to scare the heck
>>out of today's overgrown cattle, not to speak about the smaller (about
>>Merino sheep-sized, or Galloway) cattle the Gloranthans have? And yet able
>>to hide mere 20 paces from you, right within sight?
Don't forget that they also move much faster than you'd expect. Even in
heavy undergrowth.
Either of these animals would make a formidable foe if faced on his terms.
And any Hsunchen based on them would certainly not be a race to be taken
lightly. Regardless of their title of Baron or whatever.
However I'm afraid we will have to revoke Joerg's self proclaimed
impartiality:
>>Not being a native speaker, I might be considered impartial in this
>>matter.
due to a cultural involvement. As stated earlier, the term Elk is an old
Germanic name.
David (But how can you be sure anymore?) Cordes
P.S. the information on the Elk and Moose came from the 1992 Grolliers
Encyclopedia and personal experience.
DC
P.P.S. I just got the Runequest-Con Compendium yesterday. Congratulations to
everyone involved. This is a really nice piece of work.
DC
---------------------
From: esot...@teleport.com (Brad Furst)
Subject: New book available
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9408251...@kelly.teleport.com>
Date: 25 Aug 94 06:39:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5873
I found Oliver Dickinson's _The_Aegean_Bronze_Age_ (pub. Cambridge World
Archaeology) at the bookstore yesterday. Although he is already known as
the author of the Griselda stories of Pavis, this book is nonfiction.
The publisher's notes call this "a scholarly, accessible and up-to-date
introduction to the prehistoric civilisations of Greece...."
esot...@teleport.com
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Why does ice float?
Message-ID: <940825191...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 25 Aug 94 09:10:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5874
Ah, you have asked a question that has perplexed many a young scholar.
The reason that ice floats, despite its ties with cold and darkness is
that ice is the child of cold and water. It is the result of what happens
when cold forces its way upon one of Magasta's many Xth-grand-daughters.
The resulting spiritual child--ice, is not acceptible to Magasta nor to
his underlings, since it is spawn of a bastard mating. Thus, water holds
it up and will not permit ice to permeate Magasta's realm.
Of course, there could also be the possibility that the Godlearners might
not have been 100% perfectly right when they invented the runes.
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Ogres Eat Moose Riders by Moonlight in Naveria
Message-ID: <1994082521...@radiomail.net>
Date: 25 Aug 94 21:27:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5875
Ian Gorlick recommends
>For those of you who are having trouble with the notion of moose riders, may I
>suggest a novel by Sterling E. Lanier titled "Hiero's Journey".
I remember liking this book a lot too. But the real question is, do
Hsunchen ride their totems? That's not how I pictured them. (I don't know
exactly what a leather-clad Slav looks like, but that sounds close.)
Chris Wehman says
I had heard that someone had posted an excellent
>unofficial write-up of ogres, i.e. physiology, habits, society.
Have you seen the "Eat Your Enemy In Secret" writeup in Shadows on the
Borderlands?
Nick Eden (not yet affected by the Nick switch despite living in the UK) says
>Nah, that isn't the red moon. Thats the bit of moon rock that supports
>the moon boat by being pulled back towards the red moon. Look at the
>lines of the boat.
Perhaps, but the boat is described as riding a beam of moonlight.
Joerg mentioned
>For an example, Greg's story about the Pelandan girl in his upcoming
>Lunar book, read at the lecture at Convulsions, had her marry the
Is this Naveria? She strikes me as one of the tragic figures of Gloranthan
mythology; she sets off, adventuress-like, to find her father, and ends up
as the goddess of domesticity, chained to a stove! At least she gets a land
named after her.
---------------------
From: sdo...@sniffle.demon.co.uk (Stuart Dobson)
Subject: Unsubcribe
Message-ID: <1...@sniffle.demon.co.uk>
Date: 25 Aug 94 15:38:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5876
unsub list sdo...@sniffle.demon.co.uk
--
Stuart Dobson
---------------------
From: sco...@olivia.cedar-rapids.ia.us (Scott Haney)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 25 Aug 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <940825215...@olivia.cedar-rapids.ia.us>
Date: 25 Aug 94 21:59:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5877
Hi, Joerg..
& Who is this Bullwinkle? What's so funny about a beast likely to crush
& the upper half of your car when you crash into it, including the
& upper half of the passengers? A beast able to look Alex and me in the
& eyes when it lowers its head? A beast able to scare the heck out of
& today's overgrown cattle, not to speak about the smaller (about Merino
& sheep-sized, or Galloway) cattle the Gloranthans have? And yet able to
& hide mere 20 paces from you, right within sight?
Bullwinkle is an American cartoon moose. He lives with his very
best friend Rocky the Flying Squirrel, and they generally spend their
time making really bad (or good :) puns and fending off Boris and
Natasha, two rather Slavic spies.
Bullwinkle J. Moose does for Moosedom what Barry Manilow does for
thrash metal, so forgive us poor Colonists, for we can't think of
moose without giggling.
Scotty
___________________________________
\ \ _ ______ |
\ Scott Haney \ / \___-=0`/|0`/__|
\ \_______\ / | / )
/ / `/-==__ _/__|/__=-|
/ sco...@olivia.cedar-rapids.ia.us / * \ | |
/__________________________________/ (o)
---------------------
From: Arg...@aol.com
Subject: nothing about DP counters
Message-ID: <940825203...@aol.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 00:39:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5878
lips...@vax.ox.ac.uk says some interesting points about light
rising, shadow sinking, etc. Greg endorsed this view at RQ Con,
where he explained the horizon through this mechanism. Ice, BTW,
is a rune that Greg and Sandy wish they had never published. Ice
floats because ... oh, it's so obvious I needn't burden you with
the explanation.
As for gems, I've got a lot of stuff on that, taking the position
that each gem has a different origin. When AOL gets to the far
side of the Atlantic, you can get it from the AOL Roleplaying
file library. I should probably also send it to soda.berkeley.
Congratulations to Robert McArthur of Oz for a posting where any
original text was only readable by those of us with noble blood
(you could read them, couldn't you?) Ranks right up there with
double posting in the dubious achievement awards.
--Martin
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: The Jonatelan Thaw.
Message-ID: <940826063...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 26 Aug 94 06:38:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5879
Moi:
> > wasn't Timms only partially thawed to _Jonatela_ before its borders
> > to the outside world thawed, rather than vice versa?
Joerg:
> Jonatela embraced its western parts before 1616 (when it opened to the
> rest). Timms thawed earlier, in 1597 (induced by the Lunars).
As you were, I'd managed to misremember and misunderstand a misleadingly
written paragraph in G:G. (p15c3para2, to be precise) Presumably the
area actually being referred to is the "JON" of "JONATELA"... But while
we're on this subject, why do you say the thaw was induced by the Lunars?
G:G blames Dona boatmen, after all. Though this could cover people from
Eastpoint egged on the Lunars, I suppose.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Garzeen, et le stuff.
Message-ID: <940826064...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 26 Aug 94 06:41:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5880
Sandy on Garzeen's Quest for Love:
> I suggest that more likely is that this task was RESTRICTED to a single
> subcult of Issaries by the God Learners, who found it an irksome
> chore -- I assume that before the Second Age, all Issaries cultists
> were burdened with this job.
I suggest that more likely is that before the God Learners, Garzeen was
an entirely separate cult, with this peculiar practice, and they retained
it when the GLers "discovered" he was Issaries' son.
Me:
> >my continuing suspicion that the \infty rune _really_ means "member
> >of the Celestial Court"
> Well, certainly all the members of the court had the infinity
> Rune. On the other hand, Flamal & the Invisible God don't seem to
> have been. Of course, the Invisible God doesn't fit into the whole
> Celestial Court ethos anyway.
And isn't the original owner of any rune, either. I think his infinity
rule is a) problematical: has anyone successfully cast RuneQuest Sight
on the bleeder? and b) means something different to either of the above
taxonomies. Flamal's a bit of a sticking point, I admit.
> The shoulder-to-shoulder formation in musketry times was not
> because of slow rates of fire, but because in order to carry through
> an attack on an enemy line, you needed a big block of dudes.
Yeah, that's the reason _for_ it; the slow rate of fire is what would
make it (relatively) survivable.
> I've now discovered (via Henk) that David Cake lives in Oz. I now
> must argue strenuously against my earlier proposed switch of Cake and
> Hall, because relocating TotRM to Oz would be harmful to American
> interests.
This sounds worrying like the sort of proclamation that issues forth from
the Oval Office immediately before some small Caribbean island gets invaded.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Myths about Floods of Cheese.
Message-ID: <940826064...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 26 Aug 94 06:46:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5881
Devin Cutler there:
> Without wanting to insult those who thought the Anaxial the Sailor myth
> (GRoY) was brilliant stuff, does anyone else find this blatant ripoff of
> Terran flood myths to be a bit cheesy?
Nope. Isn't the idea of non-derivative mythology somewhat like the old
Rolf Harris line, "Here's an old English folk song which I've just written"?
> In any case, why would the Sky Gods choose rain as a way of cleansing. Isn't
> rain a vehicle of the rebel gods?
Perhaps the fact that Dara Happa is (presumably) subject to flooding by the
Oslir is relevant here.
Alex.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Oh deer.
Message-ID: <940826070...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 26 Aug 94 07:04:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5882
Sanford Petersen expounds on "elk":
> Instead, he is referring to
> Cervus elaphus, which is large and potentially dangerous, and a
> small, puny, variety of which is known in England as the "red deer".
Duh, silly me. I'd assumed we were using the same word to mean the same
thing, again. _Those_ "elk".
I thought the Yankee variety was supposed to be _Cervus canadensis_, a
distinct species. Whatever that means. Anyway, since this has the
perfectly good, and according to the notoriously Americanocentric
Websters, "nore correct" name of "wapiti", why induce all the
terminological inexactitude and confusion induced by the merest
breathing of the word "elk"? Let's hear it for wapiti hsunchen.
Three times fast, if at all possible.
> Elk are in the
> same family as mule deer, but so are moose, so your argument that
> Pralori should be moose "to make them more different than the Damali"
> holds little water.
Wot? I merely said that it seemed to make sense that the Damali and the
Pralori weren't the same people, and didn't totemise the _same_ animal.
> Yes, there are elk Hsunchen in Pralorela.
Wapiti-wapiti-wapiti. I'll settle for "red deer", if you must.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Questionable Rune Power
Message-ID: <940826070...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 26 Aug 94 07:07:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5883
Myles Corcoran:
> I invisage the gaining
> of a new runespell as something like a micro-quest or ceremonial
> reenactment of some aspect of the particular god's life. Does anyone
> have any interesting possiblities for such ceremonies/quests? We know some
> of the details of Orlabth's gaining the four magical weapons. Perhaps these
> events could form the basis of a reenactment for a worshipper attempting
> to gain a new spell.
For the four Magic Weapon subcult spells, yes. But not for for all of his
magic, I don't think. For those cults where we allegedly know the main
myths, it may be interesting to guess which could be "used" to gain each
rune magic. For example, _Orlanth and Aroka_ seems a likely guess for O.'s
Cloud Call.
> Secondly, I wonder how people limit the stacking of rune-points
> for those characters with more than a handful of points of RunePower and
> access to stackable spells like Shield or Lightning. If as a priest you
> have a minimum of ten points of RunePower, you can whip off a pretty
> damn powerful Shield spell.
Here's a suggestion which will work with RPT, but may be a bit restrictive
for hard-core RP-Classic devotees:
One sacrifices for (multiple) points of each stackable spell as per usual.
(To wit, as per RQ<n>.) For example, 4 points of POW to get Lightning IV.
You can then use any Rune Power spell/points to get a Lightning, but _no
larger than a Lightning IV_. Only by sacking for more points of Lightning,
and not Rune Power, can you stack any one casting to a greater amount.
I think this was half in my mind when I wrote my original message, but got
no further. If there were such a thing as Official Rune Power Too, this'd
be in it. Until the next erratum.
> Personally I limit
> the use of spells by using a Pendragon-like personality trait system but
> I'd like to see some different takes on the idea.
You are hereby encouraged to post your system immediately, Myles.
Alex.
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: The Nick of a Thousand Myths
Message-ID: <01HGCB8HA...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 26 Aug 94 11:49:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5865
Nick Writes
-----------
>What I meant was that, in the absence of any specific cultural and temporal
>context, your musings on Anitirus and Elmal were of no specific value to me.
Antirius was a god worshipped by the Dara Happans as a sun between the death of
Yelm and his return. As far as I know he was not worshipped ouside Dara Happa.
Elmal is worshipped by the Orlanthi and as was specific to them. There is a
third god, Yelmalio, who was originally worshipped by the elves but now seems
to have spread among the Orlanthi and the Dara Happans. In the case of Orlanth
in Dragon pass, he seems to have supplanted the native kerofinela Elmali tribes
and has spread into the Theyalan Peloria zone.
The Question arises: What happened to the Antirius cult that may have been
worshipped in Theyalan Peloria? Minaryth Purple in his Uz Lore speaks of
Yelmalio worshippers from further upriver establishing a temple city in Holay
in the sixth century. Is this Antirius? Where these worshippers actually
Aldryami influenced humans or what?
Given that there is virtually no information on the Antirius Cult in Peloria
after the dawn, I was trying to back calculate what Antirius must have been
like. If Antirius is Yelmalio, how would the Dara Happans explain his return
to life and the lack of healing powers. If you identify
>Myths happen inside peoples heads.
RW myths do. But Gloranthans have gods. Unless you take the God Learner view
that all gods are ultimately mutable depending on what the people believe,
there is some continuity between the gods worshipped in different places.
Example:
The time is 1248 ST.
An Orlanth worshipping King is installed in Garguna, a city in Fonrit and
largely dominated by Fonritians. As Pamaltelean influenced they hold to the
six day week. Since one of those days is a sabbath day in which they refuse
to do any work (yes this is purely hypothetical), the King sees this as a
waste of time and harmful since the Prince of Afadjann is going slaughter him
and every tenth person if he doesn't pay the set exhorbiant rate of taxes.
He casts around for ideas to improve his city's productivity (yes I know he
won't be thinking in terms like this). He realizes that his Umathelean clan
observed a seven day week. But how to prove that this calender is superior to
the six day one? He looks at the sky and sees a red object in the sky
exhibiting a periodicity of seven days! Orlanth is smiling upon him! So he
prepares for a heroquest to bring back a new calender based on the periodicity
of this red moon and persuade the populace to get more work done. Will he
succeed or fail? Discuss.
>tracing a path through myths without working out who believes in each step and
>link along it-- or, in many cases, when those links were first recognized -- is
>not a particularly useful pasttime.
Excuse me, but I did work out who might believe in each step of the path in
deciding if Antirius was Yelmalio. I know that Antirius was mortally wounded
at the Hills of Gold. I also know that Yelmalio was wounded there and lost his
fiery powers to Zorak Zoran. Winterwood is known as the last stand of the
Elves and Yelmalio and others. Now if Antirius was mortally wounded and the
identification is true, then how did he end up in Winterwood? Since there is
virtually no local myths published about winterwood (not having seen codex #2),
I speculated about a possible myth that would have elvish warriors trapping a
dead spirit on its westfaring path. They see it bears a resemblance to the sun
which they dearly miss. So they take it to Arroin (who was there in Godtime
according abelard's quest) who heals it and the elves name it Yelmalio.
I have not seen any evidence to disprove this above myth. If I were to trace
each step, am I to invent a myth of how the ghost of the sun appeared to the
army of Pelandra with the result that half of it fled and Daxdarius never took
the three defenceless cities of Dara happa?
If you do not believe in the identification that I have made and expect me to
believe you then I shall expect a more concrete refutation than what you have
made so far which merely consists of a list of likely traps which I have not
fallen into. Or if you think the myth is wrong, pick holes in it! That's what
I put it up in the daily for. But don't expect me to cease and desist from
making identifications and speculating thereof.
I'm saying
"Entenkos is probably Molanni. Molanni was known in Dara Happan myths and
Entekos is an adopted name. But why is she labelled 'Mother of Moons'. This
cannot be the Red Goddess for she is not born yet. Nor can it be Annilla whose
parents are known to us and in any case is not identified as a Lunar Element by
Mr P. in the Gods Wall. What moons do we know of? (NB I do not have 'The
Perfect Sky'.) The Dara happans must mean something different by moons than
we do."
The assertion 'Entenkos is not the mother of Annilla' was made in response to
someone pointing out that Annilla was not the original holder of the Moon Rune
on the grounds that a 'Mother of Moons' exists in the Gods Wall with the
assumption that Moon means Lunar element.
>I am keen to discover what role is played by the Elmal worshipper(s) within a
>"standard Orlanthi clan"/ I think this will be a better guide to how the god
>fits into Orlanthi Society and Mythology than the "Elmal-only"clans are; a more
>generally useful thing to discover.
I really think that an Elmal initiate in a traditional orlanthi clan (menfolk
worship Orlanth, Women worship Ernalda - all statements mostly true) would be
an extreme rarity unless you were using something like the 'worshipping without
a godi' rules in Vikings. If an Orlanthi priest gets shirty about somebody
worshipping Elmal without his intercession ("Orlanth is King of the Gods. All
prayers go through him" - Ernalda excepted of course), we might see Elmal
relegated to ritual crys for invocation when casting a spell.
For example: an Orlanthi guard is being attacked by trolls while out round the
back taking a comfort stop after drinking too much. He cries 'Elmal protect
me in these dark times' while casting a lightwall spell. He may even consider
himself a follower of Elmal even though he is initiated in Orlanth and the only
claim to being an Elmali is that he knows Lightwall and considers it the gods
magic which he has sacrificed for (albeit in monetary goods. He himself would
not know or appreciate the difference). How does he 'worship' Elmal then? Why
simple, At priestsing, he gets up every fireday and trundles down to the local
temple and sings (perhaps offkey) with the Godi, the paen to the rising Elmal.
But he also pays duties to Orlanth as Orlanth is the King of the Gods and his
spiritual requirements are more significant as a result.
Hope this helps...
--Peter Metcalfe
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Dragon Passing, again
Message-ID: <H.ea.6it&8su...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 25 Aug 94 13:27:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5867
John Medway in X-RQ-ID: 5862
> re: T.J....@soton.ac.uk (T.J.Minas) in X-RQ-ID: 5789
> [position on DP magic deleted for brevity]
> Intrinsic Magic:
> Almost all regiments or other large "units" have some kind of magical
> abilities. There are enough spirit magic dabblers [...]
> and rune lord/priest/muckitymucks in any
> decent unit that there may very well be some Sun Spears, Lightning Bolts,
> etc., cast in battle.
These would be included in the Combat Factors of the units, I suppose.
Which gives a reason why the Sartarite magical cavalry has the best
fighters in the field - all those Rune Lords.
> These include at least all of the DP units with a '0' for the RF, which can
> use "DSM", and should be found among almost all of the lists. I'd argue
> this should include quite a number more.
Technically all with a MF of 3 or greater. Even the ordinary militiaman
has one or two combat-related spirit spells to use.
> Sidenote #1: Anybody got a better name to use instead of "Intrinsic"?
What for? This magic is sub-game level, IMO.
> Physical Magic and Physical Agents:
> These are either sorcerors from the Moon, Carmania or other icky places, or
> are as Tim suggested a whole big gob of elemental summoning and
> controlling spells from divine magic users.
In spite of my later suggestion, I don't feel that all physical magic
would be restricted to sorcery. And there should be more of it - a
whole page of rules for three units from DP and one or two from NG
seems a bit overdone, and I feel it would ask for interesting tactical
considerations.
> Divine magic users get screwed in a campaign, as can happen to the Storm
> Walkers, because of the problem regenerating the Rune
> Spells/RunePower/whatever.
I imagine that any magical unit and most regular units would carry
along their own shrine(s), where each evening on the march worship
ceremonies (and spell regaining) are held.
> Sorcerors, such as the Crater Makers are probably restricted to one use of
> the meteor swarm per game for one or more of:
> 1) play balance
> 2) need a ceremony to recharge a whole helluva lot of MP matrices
I don't see the Crater Makers as sorcerers (not at all, except in the
Sartarite meaning for evil magicians). Their hail of moon rocks is
somewhat like an elemental horde's attack.
The big rain (the exotic effect) probably is reduced in utability
by getting a sufficient mass of rocks together and let it drop.
> The effects are much the same: a physical attack for which neither
> Intrinsic Magic, nor a Wyter, provides an effective, wide-spread defense.
Very much like the Cannon Cult. In NG for a (hypothetical) cradle scenario
the Harpoon could act like a physical magician with Range zero for its
particular river hex.
> Wyters
> These are the communal spirits which I remember Joerg first mentioning.
The name and concept comes from KoS; I might have been the first to
connect them to regimental spirits, at most.
> Essentially the entire unit sacrifices power into this mega-fetch-thing,
> and it acts as at least an equivalent of the Intrinsic Magic listed above
> (these are the RF=0 units from DP).
I think it takes very well-trained wyters to be able to attack other
wyters even in defense - most Lunar phalanxes have normal (but high)
magic factors only, and in their case we know of the existance of a
wyter-like regimental spirit for certain.
The units with zero range factor are few, and special:
In the Free Army, there are the three secret society of Argrath's from
Prax (Twin Spears, Bullocks, Swordbrothers), and Argrath themselves (sic)
and the Dragontooth runners have DSM. Plus all disrupted magicians...
Among the Lunars, only the absolute elite units have DSM: the Steel
Sword Legion, the Blood Spillers and the Household Foot, and the
Full Moon Corps. And disrupted magicians.
Among the neutrals, only the Golden Bow warriors from the Grazelands
have DSM. They are known to be strong magicians...
In Nomad Gods (counters for DP rules, I think the version which made
it into the French rules) the Protectresses, shamans, baboons and some
very exotic counters have zero range factors.
Does anybody out there have the French Nomad Gods (Dieux Nomads?) game?
> The real value is only understood when it is a wyter from a magician unit.
> This implies training and coordination, so that the wyter becomes a strike
> weapon, not just an umbrella. The wyter attacks the other units spirit or
> spirits, and if victorious starts munching on the troops with spirit spells
> and spirit attacks.
A good literary description for this (IMO) is the Temple of the Thirty
in David Gemmel's Drenai novels.
> These are essentially the only way for *large-scale* coordinated spirit
> magic at any range. The collection of familiars flying/crawling/slithering
> along could fairly easily be shot to pieces, as they are independant, and
> independantly defended, targets.
One problem with allied spirits is that most aren't that mobile -
picture the Alynx fyrds accompanying the Sartarite army. I could
disrupt this "spirit" with a number of herding dogs...
> Also, that's a helluva big mindlink spell.
The Mindlink isn't that big - each member casts one to his file leader,
who casts one to the ring of coordinators, who may be fully connected.
You'll end up with one Mindlink each, plus very few extra.
> Wyters are something RQ cannot even attempt to describe in any real way.
I disagree - the temple rules do a fair basic job for describing wyters.
In reply to me:
> Agreed. These are not properly handled by the low-level magic rules in RQ.
> Just as other cooperative rituals, such as Bless Crops, don't seem to work
> quit right.
I think it would be easy to write up a set of rules for such spells.
The Worship Ceremony in which everybody spends MP, but only the ceremony
leaders have to roll, is a basic example for a communal spell. The real
problem is that once the rules are there, all published counts need to
be rewritten or at least updated. I think it'd be worth the effort,
though.
jb>> Argrath's spirit magician regiments are working the same way
jb>> as do the Exile, Dragonewt or Lunar units (apart from the cyclical
jb>> effects). Ipso facto only spells equally available to all these cultures
jb>> would be usable - which would reduce the choice to common divine magic.
> That doesn't seem like a good assumption. At the abstract scale of DP, or
> even closer in, in a miniatures game, the differences between the effects
> of Shimmer v. Protection v. Dullblade on you opponent just don't show up.
> There's no reason to suggest that the spells must be common. Without the
> special effects, how much difference is there between a Lightning Bolt
> barrage, or a Sun spear barrage.
The real difference is that the Lunars have Fear, Mindblast and Madness,
the Sartarites have only Demoralize and Befuddle (the Lunars have that,
too). The spells with immediate combat effect don't really worry me, they
are either exotic or physical magic (if massed) or count for combat or
missile factors. I am worried about the special divine magics which are
unique to one side or the other. With the Seven Mothers duplicating some
of the Orlanthi magics, the pool of common spells is considerably enlarged,
and includes Sever Spirit, Resurrect and other powerful special spells.
jb>> The alternative would be a different system. Since we know aobout
jb>> regimental spirits, I think this would be the way to go. If this is
jb>> true, maybe the Malkioni would use physical magic instead, not being
jb>> big in the spirit department.
> That makes perfect sense, though I hadn't even thought about how the West
> fights their battles. They may also simply boost their knights, as it may
> be more cost-effective.
Quasi-spirit counters similar to Tada's Cudgel (e.g. CF +2)? Might
work as well. If you want a conflict between Western knights and theist
warriors, I point you to Heortland 1617 (Richard's Rokari vs. other
contenders) and 1620 (Richard's troops vs. the Lunars and/or the God
Forgot troops). I posted a map last November, maybe I'll throw out
an army list and setup soon.
> Pennel Ford? Tell me more!
Composite History of Dragon Pass, from KoS, p.151. Happened in 1624,
shortly before the battle of Zarn Kados/Milran in Heortland (p.22).
Quite graphic and detailed description...
Actually, these might have been of a manageable scale for a minis
scenario.
> There should be more to the LCM, just as there was more to the standard
> mix. Not necessarily in the same proportion, though. (Crater-makers are
> *not* all that useful in a police action, not unless you want another
> Beirut, that is.)
Also count in the heavy losses suffered at the 1625 dragon-raising.
Tatius certainly had lots of his Solar cronies with him previous to
1625, so the Lunar College of Magic in Sartar will have had rather
different special units in addition to recular classes.
> Though your calculations showed the Esrolians & Co. to be even more massive
> than the Lunars, we should not expect to find any real magic units there.
> Except the guys who focused the Pharoah's energies on building The Wall.
Lots of exotic magicians, and lots of useless militia, as far as Esrolia
is concerned. Esrolia has suffered heavily from the 1616 desaster against
the Ditali, too, but will have recovered somewhat by 1624 (Pennel).
Apart from that, think of the Holy Country as being similar in make-up to
the Praxians - a few standard magicians as parallel to the shamans, and
exotics like the Sartarite or Exile exotics for the major regions.
One real problem with the Holy Country compared to Dragon Pass is the
population density - Heortland has as much inhabitants as Lunar Tarsh and
Sartar thrown together, and Esrolia has thrice that number. Cities in
Esrolia and Heortland are just a few hexes apart. Stockades or open towns
would make up a lot of space in between. To make MoLaD compatible in
army size to DP and NG, the mapboard (a lot of which is sea) would have
to swarm with counters, which would render the game almost unplayable.
> Sidenote #2: What additional physical magics and/or exotic effects would
> be reasonable to assume existed in the Empire or the West? (I am assuming
> that the DP counter mix is essentially all there is for the Sartarites.)
Physical magics: Lots more. RQ-gnomes for the earth cults of hilland
Peloria, more Storm-related effects (Thunderbolt?) for the fringe
Orlanthi (e.g. the Oxhead Wind Lords counter), dwarf musketeers or
engineers from Greatway (parallel to Cannon Cult), Lunar siege engines,
or Carmanian or western sorcery. (I wouldn't specify how the sorcerous
physical magicians work. The current state of the sorcery rules and
their development is a negative incentive.)
An alternative for western sorcery would be quasi-spirit counters
for maintained spells <g> on units giving plusses on combat and/or
magic factors, as suggested above.
Exotic effects are somewhat documented - Four Arrows of Light indicate
an exotic magic attack on the Carmanians, minor versions of the Moonburn,
the Skyburn (serves me right for not checking Alex's misleading use of
Sunburn and be reprimanded), or the things of the Night of Horrors are
easily taken from historical information. The Lunar cults can be
analyzed for their exotic abilities, Yara Aranis against horses or
Hwarin Dalthippa against Orlanthi are springing to mind. Likewise the
Solar cults described by Plentonius, and hopefully soon some Pelandan
stuff from Greg's current work. Carmania would have anti-dragon magics,
which could be countered by some more dragon magic like the Dragontooth
runners or the EWF banner.
Other nations: The Pentans are quite similar to the Praxians wrt
strength and numbers, although their magic should include some exotic
Solar and Storm effects, in addition to Grazer-like make-up. Maybe
as tribal spirits, maybe as semi-random allies like in NG. Herds are
important for them, so they should be in the game.
A game inside the Lunar Empire could be called Dart Competition,
and provide new counters - more detailed assassins, arena fighters,
moonboats, wyvern riders, imported monsters of Cwim calibre. And
possibly new game mechanics.
The same mapboards could be used for conquest style games, like the Sheng
Seleris wars or Argrath's conquests.
The coasts invite to do a naval version of DP - sunk Slontos is
virtually crying for the war between the Waertagi and the Dormal
nations, and Harrek's trip around the world gives us a campaign game
with a couple of different mapboards and opponents, lots of exotic
units, and a lot of regions of Glorantha in hexmap scale.
The Seshnela hero wars beginning with the combined (Arolanit) Brithini
and Nolos attack on Tanisor makes another great setup. Any ideas how this
conflict relates to the events of HtWW1 (in private mail, please, to
keep our US RQ-Con participants sufficiently ignorant)? The UMPF vs
Kingdom of War is another potential DP-game. With the Council in
attendance, a parallel card-game to provide troops...
Elf reforestations are a bit harder to design, but might be fun - the
Game of Ecological Warfare, how's that for a subtitle?
Hmm, with all these ideas above, I'd better add a copyright disclaimer:
All the ideas above copyrighted by me August 94, and the sources of my
inspiration.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 25 Aug 1994
Message-ID: <940825190...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 25 Aug 94 07:01:16 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5872
Colin Watson:
>I don't think these covert spells [i.e., Concealment, Vision] have
>all the scenario-knackering >potential that some folks credit them
>with.
As a gamemaster for 21 years, I disagree.
Lipscomb makes an interesting Platonic suggestion about Gloranthan
physics.
>Basically, elements ... seek out their natural position in the
>cosmos, so if you drop a stone, it will fall to the ground because
>it is seeking Earth. Bubbles rise in water because Air lies above
>Water and the bubbles are attempting to reach Air
However, he admits to some contradiction (like, why do stones
sink in water). He has inspired me to make a surmise about Gloranthan
physics of my own.
In Glorantha, elements do not seek each other. Instead, they
flee their "enemies". As we all know Darkness > Earth > Air > Water >
Fire > Darkness.
Air bubbles rise through water because the water is "fleeing"
its natural enemy, the air -- in essence, the water's contraction
from around the bubbles force them upward. This also explains water's
surface tension as it pulls into itself to avoid the air. Darkness
comes to earth each night because it is fleeing the light, and simply
goes around and around.
Rich Staats:
> Why would you be loathe to put in a major Duck group?
I like Ducks. I have 'em in all my RQ campaigns. I have Duck
bandits, Duck merchants, Duck adventurers, Duck towns, and Duck
shipping lines. I love ducks. I am in the Pro-Duck League.
>Moose and Elk are quite different in appearance. What was the
>original thread that prompted this question?
The obstinacy of certain effete Europeans who refuse to
recognize the greater vigor of the elegant American language. I.e.,
in England, the word "elk" is misused to refer to the noble moose.
Tim Minas:
> I propose that I am the holder of the Benign "Tim" rune, and the
>Tim Leask holds the Malign "Tim" rune!
Hmm. Votes anyone?
Joerg:
>Elk to Europeans is the swamp-dwelling thing; cervus elaphus
>is non-European and unexpected in Europeanish context.
But Cervus elaphus DOES exist in Europe, and in more numerous
quantities than the moose.
>The swamps needn't be that cold
By "cold" I meant "swamps that freeze over in winter". Sorry
if I was unclear -- in the U.S. our stereotype of swampland or
marshes is usually something like the Everglades or Okefenokee. I
realize that Europe doesn't really have ANY warm swamps. But the U.S.
has plenty of cold marshes, too, and moose aren't considered an
arctic beast here anymore than they are in Europe. Maine and Wyoming,
while not tropical, aren't considered uninhabitable.
>Does this definition cover the (presumed extinct) plains elk of the
>Praxian history?
Moose require more than just wet boggy ground to survive.
Willows, for one thing. I don't think the plains elk of Prax was a
moose variety. It might have been a version of the now-extinct Great
Elk (usually miscalled the Irish Elk in the U.S.A.), which we know to
have existed in Ralios before the Dawn.
> Fact is that while there might be more native speakers of Tradetalk
>in the US, there are far more users of Tradetalk over here n Europe.
That's because you are *sob* handicapped by the fact that
most European English-speakers are forced to learn the obscure
dialect of an isolated island off your northwest coast. I can only
point out that the enormous hordes of Latin American Tradetalk
speakers, who outnumber youse guys (ah, the wonders of American
English) use the word "moose", if they know it.
Joerg then goes on to attempt to argue with me about the First Age
organization of the Issaries cult. He claims that Garzeen was in
Seshnela, Harst and Issaries both in Dragon Pass (as separate cults).
He dunno where Goldentongue is from.
He goes on to surmise that the God Learners orgmonized the
cult by gathering together these fragments and blending them all into
Issaries.
I think Joerg is half-right. I don't think the God Learners
did it, though. I think it was done by the original Theyalans in the
First Age -- when the Dawn Council went about waking up the world,
they "discovered" that there was a trade god Garzeen in Seshnela.
Clearly one of Issaries children. Ditto for Goldentongue. Harst may
have already been a subcult of Issaries at the dawn or he might have
been unified in the same way. Etyries was probably a Pelorian
barbarian deity -- the solar influence is clear in the subservient
nature of this goddess.
I believe that the God Learners took an already-unified
Issaries cult, and then further modified it in such a way as to give
all the various subcults organization and meaning. They may even have
invented Goldentongue to fill a needed slot.
>Should this be true, I deny to use any Pralori in my piece about
>Ygg's Isles. I want sinister elk people, who can make a shield of
>the antler by cutting off the toothy bits, who can swim between the
>islands, etc.
Apparently you know little about Cervus elaphus. They are
HUGE and shaggy, with needle-sharp horns, excellent swimmers, and
they can be mean. Bull elk (they're not called "bucks") make a sound
during the rut that can only be described as a roar.
Let me tell you a little elk story that happened to a friend
of mine from Utah.
*** WARNING *** THIS STORY IS NOT FOR THE SQUEAMISH ***
He was at home on his farm, when his dad got him to quick get
a rifle and come outside because an elk was attacking their cows.
They raced out, to see an elk wandering through their fields. The elk
had apparently been wounded during hunting season by some imbecile
who hadn't finished it off -- one of the elk's hind legs dangled as
if broken, and the elk was clearly in great pain.
My friend had a dog, a large German shepherd, who charged the
elk, barking and snapping at its legs. The elk couldn't maneuver
properly or chase the dog, so it just watched it warily. Then, the
dog ventured too close -- it was by one of the hind legs, towards the
elk's rear. The elk whipped its head around towards the back (my
friend said he'd never see anything move so fast) and drove its
antlers clear through the dog's body, killing it instantly.
Amazed and frightened, my friend and his dad decided they had
to kill the elk. It was clearly a danger (it had killed a couple of
cows in addition to the dog), and it was in such pain that the
oxymoronic term "mercy killing" seemed to apply.
The elk at this point began "charging" my friend -- with
three legs, it wasn't moving all that fast, though. He took his deer
rifle and fired, hitting it right in the head (which pretty much
kills a deer instantly -- my friend was an experienced mule deer
hunter, though he'd never shot at an elk before). The force of the
shot actually tore loose the elk's lower jaw, so that it dangled on a
thread beneath the creature's head. It didn't fall down. It didn't
stop its advance. It just kept coming. My friend and his father
pumped shots into it till it went down (only a couple more shots were
needed -- these are .30-06's we're talking about). Years later, my
friend was still in awe of the creature as he told the story.
*** END OF POTENTIALLY GROSS STORY ***
I've seen elk in the wild at reasonably close distances
(30-50 yards) and I've never seen any other wild creature that so
closely matches the term "majestic".
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Pendragon Pass DI.
Message-ID: <940826071...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 26 Aug 94 07:16:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5884
I ask:
> >David D., how do you do DI in Pendragon Pass?
And am duly asnwered:
> Given that I was trying to make the magic system as compatible as possible
> (the idea being you could look at Gods of Glorantha and get a good idea
> about things, despite using Pendragon), I figured it would be the same as
> RQ. A d100 roll is a bit out of place in Pendragon, however.
Actually, I'd forgotten PP (unlike Pendragon) even _had_ POW. Duh.
> Perhaps there
> should be a rule that you make a POW roll and religious virtue rolls, and
> depending on how many you make, you have more POW left over afterwards.
Ignoring POW for the moment, the requirement "make all five virtue rolls"
might be quite workable, though it gives rather different chances than RQ
rules do... (About 3% for a straight 10's guy, 25% for a straight 15's guy.
And 100% for a straight 20's guy, natch.)
Alex.
---------------------
From: 10027...@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Things
Message-ID: <940826072332_10...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 26 Aug 94 07:23:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5885
________________________________________________
Blue Wizard multiplieth words without knowledge:
I'm worried I've blundered into something personal between Peter and some
other friends of mine. Still, for all that, a quick record-straightener.
As he noticed when retyping his quotation, PHM identified himself as a man
"with a faction of God Learnerism". Not a fRaction. Assuming he liked the
bastards came naturally enough, especially given the tedious/tendentious
nature of his posting. He then took an attack on "the bollockly nature of
God Learnerism" as a personal attack. I think we see his true colours.
As Entekosa is a Pelorian rather than Dara Happan deity, the fact that
neither Orlanthi nor Dara Happans comprehend her does not mean we can't.
Given that Entekos is the Mother of Moons, and Molanni apparently is not,
this seems to me to blow a hole in the identification of the two.
I can't pretend to follow PHM's argument: he says that Entekos is not the
Mother of Moons, and that Annilla is not a Moon, and that therefore... at
this point I become lost.
In the Entekosiad, Ariria, Naveria/Sedenya, Lesilla and Koveria are the
daughters of MaElsor, not of Dendara. Can't think where the latter came
from.
> I challenge him to produce one example where [Godtime] was otherwise.
Voria. Firstborn and lastborn of the gods. KoS p.67, 89.
Any more invective, Peter, can you send it straight to me? Leave these poor
people out of it.
_____________
Chris Wehman:
[re: Jarst Daro]
There's some good but official material about Ogres in "Shadows on the
Borderlands", mostly by Martin Crim if memory serves. The unpublished/
unofficial stuff I've heard of is by Paul and Finula. Can't recall whether
it was posted here.
____________
Rich Staats:
> Why would you be loth to put in a major Duck group? It would be a big
> hit with a younger gaming crowd.
That's why I don't put them in. Anyway, Ducks without Paul Jaquays illos
are like (insert favourite parallel).
> Moose and Elk are quite difference in appearance... What was the original
> thread that prompted this question.
It's a linguistic thing. English-speaking nations get the names the right
way around, but foolish Americans have garbled them. We're trying to work
out whether we agree or disagree about Moose (and/or Elk) Hsunchen. Me, I
like them more than I like Ducks...
__________
Nick Eden:
> Nah, that isn't the red moon. That's the bit of moon rock that supports
> the moon boat...
In my (balloon) theory, it's very small right now 'cos the boat has landed.
When it takes off, the sphere expands and ascends.
No disrespect to your (or any other) campaign, but I think the modern
consensus is for a red moon visible practically everywhere in Glorantha,
visibly going through its phases both inside and outside the Glowline.
__________
Tim Minas:
> Remember, the stuff in CoP is not 100% absolutely accurate and concrete.
Agreed, vociferously.
> No moon = no Lunar magic.
The Zero Wane?
_____________________
re: Issaries/Etyries:
One phonetic shift that can happen in dialects (I think between Attic and
Ionian Greek) is from S to T sounds in words. A real-world example is
"thalassa", "sea", also pronounced "thalatta". A Gloranthan one might be
"Issaries" / "Ittaries".
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: RP v RQ v DP.
Message-ID: <940826074...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 26 Aug 94 07:48:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5886
Tim Minas:
> The Lunars. With access to all the elementals except Sylphs, Lunar magic,
> Sorcery, and strange Lunar Divine spells, these units are easy to see in RQ
> terms.
That depends what you mean by "RQ terms". That the individuals you mention
are responsible for the effects I agree with, that they are adequately
described on that scale by existing RQ rules I demurr from.
> Second point here, on regaining your spells. IMO (and this is an impression
> gained from reading the rules and from a discussion with Sandy Petersen a few
> years ago) if the temple you are praying at doesn't offer the spell you want,
> you can't regain it there.
From some things I've heard Greg say, I think this is only partly true. I'll
hedge my bets for now and say "is more difficult". In the context of my
previous rational for regaining spells, I'd say that the local types at a
shrine, say, wouldn't know how to properly conduct the rituals for spells
other than their one local one, so you have to arrange your own ritual, if
they're game for the idea.
> This is another argument against Rune Power, by the way.
Well, under my variant, if you actually cast a particular spell (qua spell),
rather than using Rune Power to do it, you'd still have to regain it at an
appropriate temple. This would happen to initiates as a matter of course,
and to priests having used up all their Rune Power. I can think of the odd
extra restriction, but I'm not sure it's really necessary.
Alex.
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Western Script
Message-ID: <H.ea.oXJ...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 26 Aug 94 08:23:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5887
This is an appendix to a discussion from about a month ago: We don't
know exactly how Western script works, but we have one example for how
it looks like - the illustration of the wheel coin in GoG, p.54.
According to this the Westerners use a runic-like script similar to
early Italic, Celtic or Nordic script. Whether this is syllabic or uses
actual letters we cannot say from what little evidence there is; if it
uses letters, then my theory about drastic abbreviations seems to be
correct.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Rune Power comments
Message-ID: <940826083...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 26 Aug 94 08:30:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5888
Matt Thale proposes:
> Spells that are normally one-use for priests and lords are not
> regainable by initiates, and the priest/lord must roll as an
> initiate to regain them.
I'm Strongly In Favour of Nick's idea for letting initiates regain rune
magic, but I dislike the (admittedly apparently analogous) idea of letting
one-use spells be regained (by priests). After all, if you want this
sort of effect, you can effectively get it by mechanisms like those used
for Enchant Thunderstone. Making _all_ magic eventually regainable seems
Mythically Incorrect to me. Ruins all sorts of plotlines in the Mahabharata.
Oops, wrong game world.
> At the moment, I'm not using Rune Power in any of its various forms.
> However, I'm seriously thinking about it. Currently, none of my
> players is rune level, so I don't really have to worry too much
> about Rune Power since I'd restrict it to Priests and Lords.
I don't think it does significant harm to let initiates have access to rune
power; after all, they're the people least able to abuse it. (They'll have
less, and won't be able to regain it (as fast)). Doubly so with my varient
((im)modest cough), since you have to have at least two "ordinary" spells
before getting Rune Power would even make sense.
And I think that if your campaign level is initiatish, then allowing more
flexible access to rune magic has at least some beneficial MGF impacts.
Alistair Langsford:
> On the Game Mechanics side, I like the modification that before a
> Divine spell could be cast from the RunePower Pool you had to have
> 'learned' it anyway, by sacrificing for it as you do now.
A recruit! ;-) Or was that a vote for Henk's idea? Where's my programme...?
> Perhaps the
> ability to create the RunePower Pool in the first place is a Divine
> Spell in the first place.
I have an allergic reaction to the term "Pool"; perhaps a nasty holdover
from playing Champions many moons ago. And because the Anti-RP Faction
like to use it as a term of abuse, I suppose. (Stand up, Sandy "Shapeless
Undifferenciated Pool" Petersen, and hang your head. <g>) I preferred to
regard it as Just Another Spell (sorta), itself.
Alex.
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Issaries and sons, Inc.
Message-ID: <940826083...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 26 Aug 94 08:34:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5889
Keith Smith:
> IMO, Etyries was one of the four subcults established by Issaries at
> the dawn of time ( four sons was a typo since most gods were male at the time
> of the CoP write-up).
I suspect that the four "sons" are Harst, Garzeen, Goldtongue, and Herald.
While gender is somewhat uncertain with gods, pettyfogging distinctions
like "son" and "grandson" are triply so.
> Also, Etyries is and was worshipped as a seperate
> subcult since the dawn of time.
Possible, but at least equally possible that the thousand years referred to
is retconning/Lunar propaganda/mere convention. After all, if you were
an ordinary Garzeen priestess called Eytries Fakebeard, and were setting
up hero cult to yourself, wouldn't you jazz up your parentage and history
as much as possible to Sell Yourself to the credulous masses?
> Orlanth is
> given the spell of Darkwalk (which confers invisibilty AND silence), which
> all sources state he stole from Kyger Litor. Although Kyger Litor has no
> such spell, Argan Argar does. How does one account for this????
This is due to the little-known fact that after someone steals something
from you, you don't have it any more.
Alex.
---------------------
From: dar...@maths.tcd.ie (Darragh J. Delany)
Subject: Dragon Pass, Nomad Gods Etc.
Message-ID: <940826101...@salmon.maths.tcd.ie>
Date: 26 Aug 94 12:11:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5890
Could someone please summarise the history of the Dragon Pass/Nomad Gods
trilogy of games. I've just finished reconstructing Nomad Gods from some
photocopies we got from Greg (pile of questions on it but I'll leave them
until some other time, if anyone is quite familiar with the game could
you let me know so I can pick your brains on it?) but I'm a little unclear
as to what revisions/ errata/variants/link rules there may be out there.
Anybody know anything??
Darragh
---------------------
From: al...@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Magical Regiments and acres.
Message-ID: <940826093...@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 26 Aug 94 09:34:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5891
N. Smith:
> Except that if you look at the Rabbit Hat Farm map, each field is roughly
> 25m*40m, one hectare, one quarter of an acre, thus decreasing the spell's
> power.
A hectare is 10,000m^2, btw, or about 2.5 acres. Rereading Sun County on
these stones, it strikes me they aren't spell matrices of any kind, but
rather some form of "focus" for what one might be tempted to call... communal
magic. Whether it's precisely Mass Bless Crops or not is a different matter.
> Alex in X-RQ-ID: 5769
> "I don't think the (undoubted) innovations of the Magical Regiments included
> the fairly straightforward business of having a group of divine magicians
> cast their spells in concert."
> Perhaps it involves them casting their spells via a "chief magician", who
> acts as a "fire-coordinator", casting no spells himself (maybe a Ritual?)
> but directing those cast at him to fresh targets.
I think the point of the Magical Regiments isn't the _magic_, it's the
_regimentation_. I think traditional organisation of spell-casters would
be to have most with (and often leading) other units, each casting their
magic on an individual basis, plus at least a handful with the command
unit, who would be able to use some kind of concerted magic, as would the
odd "special" unit, such as temple contingents.
The upshot of the MRs was to have larger consolidated groups, organised as
a military unit. Have them drill spell-casting, as a phalanx drills forming
up a pike-and-shield wall. Integrate them into the command structure of
the army. Give 'em a spot of military discipline, the idle wasters. Ponder
suitable strategies for using them as a distinct type of unit.
Alex.
---------------------
From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Moosing about in the Net
Message-ID: <_5412_Fri_Aug_26_08:02:57_1...@bnr.ca>
Date: 26 Aug 94 04:02:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5892
to rstaats in RQ-ID: 5855
The original question was "Why do Americans call elk 'moose'?"
The word moose came into use in eastern North America when it was
adopted from a local native american word. This apparently left the
word elk unused, and it was later applied, mistakenly and confusingly
to the wapiti.
I agree, no-one who has ever seen a moose or a wapiti will ever confuse
the two. The people who applied the name 'elk' to the wapiti must
therefore have never seen the european elk. Presumably they just knew
that the elk was a very large deer.
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 26 Aug 1994
Message-ID: <940826151...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 03:15:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5893
I like the name "Aleci" for moose hsunchen and will institute it in
my campaign. Thanks, Jonas and one of the many Daves.
Joe Lannom:
>I'm looking for something akin to a cult write up for Ragnaglar. I
>know, I know, he's dead... but that doesn't stop anyone from
>worshipping gbaji, why should it get in the way of several broo
>shaped fanatics?
Actually, no one "worships" gbaji or even Nysalor either.
Though I guess some folk honor them. Ragnaglar, as a deader, has no
more cult than Genert, Vadrus, or Yamsur. You'd think that Genert
would have a cult, if anyone would, but nope. No doubt the utter lack
of any magic power stemming from such worship has discouraged
potential inductees.
That said, I've seen at least four different writeups for a
Ragnaglar cult and if you're dead-set on having him in your campaign,
you could use one of them.
I also imagine there are several different "cults" of
Ragnaglar in Glorantha. Broos masquerading as Ragnaglar to their
clan; misguided fanatics in the Kingdom of Ignorance trying to
re-enact the Unholy Trio's plot; etc.
I think Glorantha is as prone to "false" religions and cults
as modern Earth. Maybe more so.
David Dunham:
>But the real question is, do Hsunchen ride their totems?
Most don't, I'm sure. But a few must. The Galanini do. I'm
sure that Uncolings ride in reindeer-pulled sleds (reindeer are
generally too small for a rider). An elk or moose is ridable, but I,
like Dave D., don't picture the Aleci or Pralori as riding nomads,
but as running alongside them.
Alex:
> I merely said that it seemed to make sense that the Damali and the
>Pralori weren't the same people, and didn't totemise the _same_
>animal.
I don't think anyone has argued for that at all. Certainly I
haven't. Though I'm not sure what exact type of deer the Damali
worship, I'm sure it is a different genus from the Pralori animal,
and I'm also sure that the Damali beastie is much smaller.
Aren't there any small deer in Europe besides fallow? Fallow
seem to be _too_ small, from what I've heard. Whitetail deer are
reasonably-sized and well-antlered. They'd be suitable for Damali.
>The real difference is that the Lunars have Fear, Mindblast and
>Madness, the Sartarites have only Demoralize and Befuddle
Why don't the Sartarites have Lightning, Thunderbolt, Sever
Spirit (for the Humakti among 'em), & Thunderstones? These seem
nearly as useful as the Lunar assault magics.
---------------------
From: Arg...@aol.com
Subject: BOOK OF EMPERORS NOT AVAILABLE
Message-ID: <940826122...@aol.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 16:23:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5894
News flash:
Despite what someone said on the Daily Thursday, the Dara Happan Book of
Emperors is not available from the Wizard's Attic. They asked me to call
back in six weeks "or so." Please don't call them up, as they have to pay
for the 800 number call.
--Martin
---------------------
From: jonas....@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Infinitely Invisible?
Message-ID: <940826164...@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 26 Aug 94 20:45:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5895
Sandy and Alex:
>> Well, certainly all the members of the court had the infinity
>> Rune. On the other hand, Flamal & the Invisible God don't seem to
>> have been. Of course, the Invisible God doesn't fit into the whole
>> Celestial Court ethos anyway.
>
>And isn't the original owner of any rune, either. I think his infinity
>rule is a) problematical: has anyone successfully cast RuneQuest Sight
>on the bleeder? and b) means something different to either of the above
>taxonomies.
Well, like I said earlier, I think the _malkioni_ consider the IG to be the
original owner of Law, since they identify him/it with the Creator. I see
nothing strange in the Creator being the origin of Law. But of course
theists might argue that the identification is wrong to begin with.
>Flamal's a bit of a sticking point, I admit.
Why? I don't think the origin deities of Man, Beast etc (you know, the
runes in the same category as Plant... uh, "Form Runes" I think it was...
the distinctions haven't been clearly stated in any of the RQ3 material,
have they?) were in the Court either, so why should Flamal be any
different?
( Jonas Schiott )
( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria )
( Goteborgs Universitet )
---------------------
From: gad...@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois)
Subject: Oliver Thomas Pilkington Kirwan "Griselda" Dickinson
Message-ID: <199408261731...@CLIO.MCC.COM>
Date: 26 Aug 94 07:31:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5896
Brad Furst mentions Oliver Dickinson's latest book, "The Aegean Bronze
Age" (harback ISBN 0521242800, paperback 0521456649.) In the States you
can order it from Cambridge University Press (800-544-3320). They only
have the hardcover version right now. It runs US$64.95 plus $3.76
shipping. I saw a copy of the book at Convulsion, and it looks great.
Oliver has also written "The Origins of Mycenaean Civilization"
(Goteborg: Astroms, 1977. ISBN 9185058742) and co-authored with Hope R.
Simpson "A Gazetteer of Aegean Civilization in the Bronze Age"
(Goteborg: Amstrom Forlag, 1979. ISBN 9185058815.)
--David Gadbois
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: Bob.L...@tiuk.ti.com
Subject: Moon boats, exotics
Message-ID: <940826174...@ibrox.tiuk.ti.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 17:45:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5897
Hi from Bob Luckin !
The Moon's a balloon
====================
David Dunham (X-RQ-ID: 5875) to Nick Eden :-
>Nick Eden (not yet affected by the Nick switch despite living in the UK) says
>>Nah, that isn't the red moon. Thats the bit of moon rock that supports
>>the moon boat by being pulled back towards the red moon. Look at the
>>lines of the boat.
>
>Perhaps, but the boat is described as riding a beam of moonlight.
I agree with David. There was a discussion of this a while back, when MOB
posted an excellent description (X-RQ-ID: 976) upon which I presume the
text and cover of SiP is based :-
> The famous flying Moon Boats are used by the Empire to carry
> messengers, important passengers and occasionally troops over
> great distances. They travel on and are propelled by special
> beams of moonlight, focussed from the Red Moon itself. Inside
There's no mention of a red rock ("Red Rock : It's not red and there's no
rocks in it") in the posting, and it sounds like an important detail to have
missed out. Also, I see no suspension wires running to the red orb in the
picture, only the wispy edges of the moonbeam which is visible near the prow
and stern of the boat. I'd have expected this (and the rest of the picture)
to be tinted red, after the text description in SiP. But perhaps the artist
forgot that the beam "bathes the whole area in it's reddish light". Or
perhaps someone decided that would make the cover less attractive and reduce
sales ?
However, Nick's idea is fun, and resembles the other Nick's (Brooks) earlier
suggestion that moon boats were hot air balloons whose canopies were half
black and half red, steered by altering how much of the red was turned
towards the moon. Is there a more sinister reason behind this similarity ?
Perhaps the Daily God Learners perpetrated a Nick switch a while back, and
this is the first sign of something wrong ? This could be anothre argument
against the great David switch...
Exotics
=======
Robert McArthur (X-RQ-ID: 5863) says regarding the exotic units in Dragon
Pass :-
>So, I think there's something more to the exotics than just hyped up "normal"
>magic.
I agree. Perhaps that's why the units are called "exotics" in the first
place ?
Gems
====
Martin (X-RQ-ID: 5878) suggests pulling his gem descriptions from AOL, if it
ever makes it across the water, and then says :-
>I should probably also send it to soda.berkeley.
Please do ! For me at least, that would be the better solution. :-)
Deeply Dippy
============
Joerg suggested a lot of DP variants, which for some reason spawned the
following half-formed idea. How about a Diplomacy variant based on
Glorantha ? The basis would be Genertela during the thaw; depending on the
exact date you decided to start, several of the areas would still be under
the Syndics' Ban at the start of the game, and each time you tried to invade
one of these you'd have to roll a die to see if it had opened yet...
No doubt Diplomacy fans (I don't actually own the game) can come up with lots
of other ideas for Gloranthan dippy...
Cheers, Bob
--
Bob Luckin vo...@tiuk.ti.com "Able was I ere I saw Corflu"
---------------------
From: Dev...@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 25 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940826153...@aol.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 19:30:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5898
Devin Cutler here:
First, I believe that it is fairly obvious (as obvious as anything CAN be in
Glorantha) that Entekos is Molanni. The similarities are too great and the
differences are ecrtainly cultural.
Nick, why do you feel that supposing that Molanni and Entekos are one and the
same necessarily precludes her having a moon-related aspect in Dara Happa,
but with that aspect ignored in Rebellus Terminus lands (where that aspect
may have been downplayed once the Red Goddess rose to prominence)?
Colin writes:
"I don't think these covert spells have all the scenario-knackering potential
that some folks credit them with. In my experience something inevitably goes
wrong even with the most foolproof plans."
Maybe, but it oftenr equires the GM to twst and writhe to make that wrong
thing happen. I outlawed Concealment and Invisibility in RQ2 when I ran the
Raid on Yelorna.
With Conceal up, it was way too easy to go in and steal the Labrys et al.
Regards,
Devin Cutler
dev...@aol.com
---------------------
From: Dev...@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 26 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940826160...@aol.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 20:03:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5899
Devin's Homonculus here:
Jon writes:
"I note we haven't heard much from Devin recently. At last I have uncovered
the reason! "Devin" is in fact a False David, whose identity has become
hopelessly lost in the Great Davids Muddle!"
Tish Tosh! My master has been enslaved by the demon (i.e. boss) Harvey Finkel
and is labouring 15-16 hours per day to finish Harvey's fiendish project.
Keep it quiet, but there is a plan to free him after Labour Day.
Also, during his period of enslavement, my master has been digesting GRoY and
redigesting KoS and no doubt will have much to say upon his escape.
My master also commented...
Alex writes:
"Nope. Isn't the idea of non-derivative mythology somewhat like the old
Rolf Harris line, "Here's an old English folk song which I've just written"?"
True enough...and I don't want to turn this into a major debate since I am
not THAt upset with it....but that particular myth seemed a bit TOO
derivative.
Avivath seems rather Jesus-like to me....but I would have only been cheesed
out if Greg had had him nailed to a Death Rune.
"Perhaps the fact that Dara Happa is (presumably) subject to flooding by the
Oslir is relevant here."
Certainly, that is what I pictured as the underlying MO of the flood, but
nevertheless, Plentonius describes it as a cleansing event initiated, albeit
indirectly, by the Sky Gods (Yelm). Therefore, I am still perplexed why Yelm
would choose to cleanse the world with an impure element (Water), using a
Rebellus Terminus vehicle (Rain) to cause to flood a Lower and therefore
unclean deity (Oslira).
One would think that, considering all of these impure elements have ganged up
on Darra Happa, that rather than a cleansing action, this would have been
regarded as an invasion.
Goodbye
Devin's Homonculus
---------------------
From: esot...@teleport.com (Brad Furst)
Subject: Re: Oliver Thomas Pilkington Kirwan "Griselda" Dickinson
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9408261...@kelly.teleport.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 06:46:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5900
On Fri, 26 Aug 1994, David Gadbois wrote:
> Brad Furst mentions Oliver Dickinson's latest book, "The Aegean Bronze
> Age" (harback ISBN 0521242800, paperback 0521456649.) In the States you
> can order it from Cambridge University Press (800-544-3320). They only
> have the hardcover version right now. It runs US$64.95 plus $3.76
> shipping. I saw a copy of the book at Convulsion, and it looks great.
I bought my papercover copy for $27.95 off the shelf.
I should remind RuneQuesters that there is some particular use in
studying the Aegean bronze age, especially regarding Griffin
Mountain/Island. The citadels used in the Griffin adventures are taken
exactly from actual Aegean citadels, line for line, only the names have
been changed.
Brad Furst
esot...@teleport.com
---------------------
From: mmor...@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 26 Aug 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <1994Aug26.1...@vnet.ibm.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 21:12:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5901
*** Reply to note of Fri, 26 Aug 94 09:16:47 +0200
*** by RuneQues...@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
Sandy writes:
S>;Air bubbles rise through water because the water is "fleeing"
S>its natural enemy, the air -- in essence, the water's contraction
S>from around the bubbles force them upward. This also explains water's
S>surface tension as it pulls into itself to avoid the air.
This theory could also explain ice -- often there is air in ice,
and the water senses this air and repulses the ice. Of course,
the air doesn't want the ice either (it *is* mostly water), so
the ice is forced to float at the interface between air and water.
The reason most of the ice is below the surface is that the water
is sympathetic to its cousin's plight (having air in it) and lets
it stay close -- but not too close. And, finally, as ice melts,
it rejoins its cousins and lets the air free to rejoin the air.
Sound plausible?
Other issues: I'm wondering what gods newtlings typically worship.
In the Zola Fel valley, they worship (mostly) Zola Fel. What about
elsewhere? Do they typically worship the local river god/dess? Are
any described/written up?
Finally, a question: Aside from the usual chaotic features in the RQ<n>
books, do any of you have features you're fond of and care to post? I
think chaos is more various and wonderful (ack -- he's illuminated; he's
chaotic -- kill!) than the chaotic feature (and Thed Gift) charts allow.
I'd like to see some of your favourite features.
Michael
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael C. Morrison IMS Information Development Tieline 8-543-4706
Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California (SWS) Phone (408)463-4706
Bitnet ID: MCM at VNET Fax (408)463-4101
Internet ID: MMOR...@VNET.IBM.COM or USIB...@IBMMAIL.COM
IBM Mail Exchange ID: USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL or USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL
X.400 Address: G=mcmgm; S=morrison; P=ibmmail; A=ibmx400; C=us
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: carl...@wdni.com (Carlson, Pam)
Subject: Mooses, if anybody's still interested
Message-ID: <2E5E...@emssmtp.msm.weyer.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 21:25:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5902
Joerg rants:
& Who is this Bullwinkle? What's so funny about a beast likely to crush
& the upper half of your car when you crash into it, including the
& upper half of the passengers? A beast able to look Alex and me in the
& eyes when it lowers its head? A beast able to scare the heck out of
& today's overgrown cattle, not to speak about the smaller (about Merino
& sheep-sized, or Galloway) cattle the Gloranthans have? And yet able to
& hide mere 20 paces from you, right within sight?
Scott answers:
Bullwinkle is an American cartoon moose. He lives with his very
best friend Rocky the Flying Squirrel, and they generally spend their
time making really bad (or good :) puns and fending off Boris and
Natasha, two rather Slavic spies.
I add:
Not only that, but Bullwinkle J. Moose lives in Frostbite Falls, Minnesota,
attends Whatzamatta U.,
travels to Mooselvania, puts onions on his breakfast cereal, plays his
ukelele
to charm Moon Mice, and writes bad poetry. Pure genius.
We Americans (under 40 anyway) grew up with Rocky & Bullwinkle, and all
those other fabulous Jay Ward characters:
George of the Jungle, Tom Slick, and Super Chicken ("Pass the supersauce,
Fred...). We still have Jay Ward film festivals here in Seattle. These
cartoons rely almost entirely on verbal humor, which is all too rare in
American entertainment. If embracing Bullwinkle has irrevocably belittled
Alces alces in North America, then that's a small price to pay...(sniff!)
Joerg, Nils, and all who haven't seen Bullwinkle - go! Find it! See it!
You won't be sorry.
Scott summarizes:
Bullwinkle J. Moose does for Moosedom what Barry Manilow does for
thrash metal, so forgive us poor Colonists, for we can't think of
moose without giggling.
Me again:
Yup. And, as counterpoint to Sandy's sad story about the dog getting killed
by a wapiti, the
STORY OF PAM'S LITTLE SISTER AND THE MOOSE
Several years ago my family was driving through one of those animal parks
where people stay in their cars
and the animals run around free. Having left the lion area and entered the
herbivore area, we rolled down the windows.
(It was hot, or something, I dunno - I was only 10). My three year old
sister was eating animal cookies out of one of those little boxes made to
look like a circus-train. We were all thrilled to see a huge moose slowly
amble over to the car.
Much to our surprize, the moose stuck his head inside the car, and his nose
reached way past my dad
in the driver's seat. I distinctly remember feeling the car rock as his
antlers slammed into the side!
The moose's long tongue snaked out another two feet, and snatched my
sister's cookies from her hand.
The moose engulfed the whole thing, box, string, and all. Then he pulled
his head out and slowly ambled away, chewing happily.
Stupidly, we were never afraid of this immense animal - even my little
sister thought it was hilarious.
END
Such is the power of the Bullwinkle myth.
However, I have been charged by a bull wapiti at the zoo in autumn, and
remember suddenly finding God when the bull decided
to respect the electric wire at the last minuite!
In short, moose seem gentle and comic to most North Americans, while wapiti
seem fierce and noble.
Maybe this is because wapiti are herd animals, famed for their fighting
abilities, while moose are solitary, shy critters
- except for the gregarious and artistic Bullwinkle!
Pam
<^==@
/\ /\
---------------------
From: carl...@wdni.com (Carlson, Pam)
Subject: Antirius/ Yelmalio/ Elmal
Message-ID: <2E5E...@emssmtp.msm.weyer.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 22:25:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5903
Here's my interpretation of this fiery puzzlement:
When Orlanth slew Muharzam (re GRoY), Yelm was so upset that he
disintegrated. Most of these peices fell to hell,
but Antirius was a peice of Yelm that remained above, to rule/provide light
in Yelm's absence. When Yelm returned, Antirius just rejoined with Yelm,
though he may still be worshipped in some solar areas as a ruler/law-giver
aspect of Yelm. Like Yelmalio, Antirius did go to the Hill of Gold (twice?
two different accounts of the same event?), but he want reluctantly, as it
was his duty to accompany an emporer. Anterius wasn't killed by the HoG so
much as by a continual series of let-downs from human emporers. Yelmalio's
ordeal at the HoG sounds very different. This seems like two different
gods, but it brings up the question: what is the underlying significance of
the HoG to multiple fiery deities?
GRoY also mentioned that Shargash fought Orlanthi/Elmali at one point. All
through GRoY, Shargash is depicted as being
restrained by Antirius; although S resents this, he never breaks free. If
Anterius=Yelmalio=Elmal, how could S be controlled by Antirius yet used
against Elmal?
Therefore, Antirius isn't Elamal, and Anterius most probably isn't Yelmalio,
either.
Therefore, does Yelmalio = Elmal? The names are pretty similar. And there
are Sun Dome temples in Sartar - both are the only acceptable solar dieties
in the Orlanthi pantheon. But does Elaml have fire spells? If so, how can
he be Yelmalio? Maybe they're all different? Kargzant seems to be yet
another totally different fiery diety, although K joined Yelm after the
dawning, as anyone who happens to catch a Grazelander puppet play can tell
you!
Maybe Y, E, K, and any number of other as yet un-mentioned fire/sky dieties
were small fire gods who helped folks locally during Yelm's absence. They
could have independant sources from Yelm - like Kargzant - or be splinters,
like Antirius. Some may have even been Yelm splinters who refused to rejoin
at the Dawning? Maybe Yelm had lots of firey sons by all those concubines,
whom the DH's fail to acknowledge because they're weren't out of Dendara.
Better yet - highly secret bastards of Dayzatar?
Comments?
How about this? The HoG has a reality warping feature, and makes slightly
different copies of a diety who visits, creating multiple versions of
fire/sky filial dieties.....
Pam
<^==@
/\ /\
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Re: Antirius/Yemalio/Elmal
Message-ID: <01HGF2X7J...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 28 Aug 94 10:23:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5905
Pam Carlson wrote
>GRoY also mentioned that Shargash fought Orlanthi/Elmali at one point. All
>through GRoY, Shargash is depicted as being restrained by Antirius; although
>Shargash resents this he never breaks free. If Antirius=Yelmalio=Elaml, how
>could S be controlled by Antiriusyet used against Elmal?
>Therefore, Antirius isn't Emal, and Antirius most probably isn't Yelmalio
>either.
This is a valid set of points raised and I attempted to explain it by the
following proposed version of events as to what really happened.
1) Antirius dies after being mortally wounded at the Hills of Gold. I am
presuming Zorak Zoran rips out his heart making it a very bloody affair to
satisfy all aspects of Solar God being wounded at the hill of Gold. Normally
he would have been able to waste Orlanth and kick the crap out of ZZ with one
hand tied behind his back but the six wounding errors got to him...
2) Shargash now free rules Dara Happa. It seems from the history that Manimat
fled Dara Happa with seventy families, not so much as Dara Happa was
uninhabitable (the last part of the dome breaks after his coronation and he
rules Dara Happa for 239 more years), but because the basis of his right to
rule (by Anitirius is now dead). A new 'unmentioned' reign of Shargashite
Emperors rules from Alkoth. This lasts for 178 years until 'Shargash destroys
the World'.
3) Antirius is captured and brought to life by the Elves of Winterwood forest.
He is renamed Yelmalio.
4) Yelmalio meets Orlanth on top of a river and they fall in. Yelmalio swears
to becomes Orlanths friend and they travel back to Kerofinela to warm Orlanths
people. Yelmalio is known as Elmal. This is KoS p195.
5) Elmal is left in charge of the Orlanthi when Orlanth goes to find Ernalda.
He then sends emmisaries to see if Dara Happa is still all right. Shargash
recognizing his old dominator rebuffs the emissaries (who are naturally in that
troubled time armed) and a myth is born that Shargash stopped the raids of
Elmalus and the Vingkotlings. Elmal is discouraged and presumes that manimat
and his followers are lost.
>Therefore, does Yelmalio = Elmal? The names are pretty similar. And there
>are sun dome temples in Sartar - both are the only acceptable solar dieties in
>the Orlanthi pantheon. But does Elmal has fire spells?
Elmal according to KoS p196 gives "...blessings upon the earth, good barley
crops, healthy horses, and winter protection". I interpret Winter protection
as when the light in the world is weakest. The Orlanthi already have Mahome
and Gustbran to give them fire.
You must note this is the version of the cult in King Tarkalor's time and it
probably has not changed much since the dawn. "Blessings on the earth" and the
"Good Barley crops" I interpret Elmal has having obtained these secrets with his
time among the elves (and his marriage to Ernalda?). The bleesing on horses
came much later. Orlanth is seen as deciding the *Heortlings* needed a steed
to ride and not the Vingkotlings. I presume that this is the result of a
Heortling king heroquesting for a stead to ride and having obtained the secret
from Elmal. The myth (mentioned on page 223) might even be the other side of
the battle in the sky in GRoY p40 and have occured during time. Orlanth tames
the horse and rewards it to his loyal thane Elmal. Note that the Yelmalions of
Praxian Sun County do not have any spells relating to horses although we know
that they were required to do so when originally gifted the land by King Jhoraz
Kyrem.
>Maybe Yelm had a lot of fiery sons by all those concubines whom the DH's fail
>to acknowledge because they weren't out of dendara.
True. Daga is nowhere mentioned in the GRoY despite him being the child of
Yelm and Molanni/Entekos. (I presume his worship was to bring warm air during
the great darkness). Yelorna is the daughter of Yelm and Ernalda (who appears
to be Rernalada in the GRoY). The only concubine I believe that Yelm did not
father a child upon would be Verithurusa for reasons the commentator makes
allusions to.
>Better yet - highly secret bastards of Dyazatar?
True! Vrimak is cited in Heroes (vol 1, issue ?? Writeup of Hykim) as being
the child of Dayzatar and Hykim. Perhaps a god learner who was pissed off at a
dayzatarian monk decided to prove that Vrimak was his child...
---------------------
From: str...@hopper.itc.virginia.edu (John Strauss)
Subject: moonshadow
Message-ID: <1994082710...@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: 27 Aug 94 02:53:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5906
Who can see the moon?
Well, when I first started playing in Glorantha, '83, we all assumed
that the moon, being new, was only visible in areas where it had
worship. Our characters knew that the moon was slowly rising higher
and higher as the empire grew and the lunar cults gained more
power.
So, when 7M missionaries first visited an area, the moon would not
be visible there. As the 7M cult gained acceptance a red glow would
form on the horizon. In Prax, the moon is clearly visible low and
to the northwest in the year 1620. But there was little to see in
1600.
Some odd things were possible because of this worldview. Krogar
Wolfhelm, for example, was secretly a Telmori. He didn't know this
UNTIL the moon peeked over the horizon. He was ashamed of his
unwelcome chaos curse and fought vigorously to stop the lunar plan
to establish a Temple of the Reaching Moon in Pavis, which would
have supplied enough power to lift the moon high enough to see
clearly. I still have this image (never played) of Krogar fighting
his way up the steps of the temple, tears streaming down his face,
just as the place activated and he was bathed in full moon light,
transforming to a werewolf before a shocked group of players and
then running away into the night.
We really didn't know much about the TotRM, as none of us had
played White Bear Red Moon. That might have modified our view, I
dunno.
Moon rocks were important, and any 7M priest worth his salt had
one. It let him use rune magic as described in CoP in non-lunar
territory. Inside that territory, they had a one point rune spell
that made the rock give off a full moon glow for 15 minutes.
Later writings made it obvious that we had wandered away from the
mainstream. But I confess to a sentimental attachment to the idea
that new things don't exist in Glorantha until people in your
region believe in them. In fact, that premise was the foundation of
my first tenative looks at what heroquesting might be about.
Darragh (is this a perversion of "david") sez:
>I've just finished reconstructing Nomad Gods from some
>photocopies we got from Greg (pile of questions on it but I'll
>leave them until some other time, if anyone is quite familiar with
>the game could you let me know so I can pick your brains on it?)
>but I'm a little unclear as to what revisions/ errata/variants
>/link rules there may be out there.
I also have a Nomad Gods built from photocopies. I haven't yet
built a usable map out of the pieces I have or made counters. I
second Darragh's request for info on this game.
John Strauss (NOT subject to GL combinations with John Sapienza. It
just wouldn't work.)
str...@hopper.itc.virginia.edu
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Mob of MOB
Message-ID: <01HGFAJQK...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 28 Aug 94 11:12:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5907
G'day Everyone,
____________
Ollie's Book
I actually got a copy of Aegean Bronze Age from Oliver when I was staying with
him in York, and when we were there he got a letter from the publishers
saying that the first print run had sold out and a second was to made.
Oliver momentarily overcame his traditional English reserve a gave a very
American style WHOOP!
I highly recommend this book, and if you buy, you will learn Oliver's
impressive string of middle names...
_______________________________
Red Moon Over Pavis: Moon Boats
Someone wrote:
>Tell them to look at the cover of Strangers in Prax. There are the
>Coders disembarking into Pavis, and above the moonboat is a small red
>billiard ball aka the Red Moon. Of course, this could just be artistic
>license...
Yes, the small red billiard ball is meant to be the Red Moon. The artist has
taken a bit of artistic license in my opinion, in that I would imagine that
the Red Moon is somewhat lower in the sky, and probably a little bigger
than is depicted here.
Nick Eden:
>Nah, that isn't the red moon. Thats the bit of moon rock that supports
>the moon boat by being pulled back towards the red moon. Look at the
>lines of the boat.
Nah, it is meant to be the Red Moon - at least that was what was specified to
the artist - however, if you want your Moon Boats propelled that way
it's fine by me. However, I postulate that Moon Boats ride *on* moon beams
projected from the moon itself and don't need lumps of moon rock or
balloons or whatever to either propel it or make it float. Inside the
Glowline Moon Boats are very effective, but beyond they are vulnerable as
they are very slow on crescent days and can't fly at all on dark days. In
my next Jaxarte tale he'll be taking a ride in a moon boat, so I'll get
a chance to expand on my theories!
__________
Jarst Daro
Chris Wehman asks:
>I will be playing Jarst Daro(an NPC) in the Garhound contest(From RoC) in
>about a week and I had heard that someone had posted an excellent
>unofficial write-up of ogres, i.e. physiology, habits, society. I was
>wondering if someone could email me that in the next few days at my email
>address as it appears above.
Paul Reilly and Finula posted some excellent stuff on ogres to the Daily
a while back, and some of their material ended up in "Shadows on the
Borderlands": 'Eat Your Enemy in Secret'. You might also want to grin a lot,
show off your pearly white choppers, and hang around the mock-pork-on-a-stik
stand!
________________
Issue #8 covers:
David Gadbois explains:
>Actually, there were two covers for the U.S. edition of Tales 8. One
>was the grotty Mark Baldwin Chaos hell-pit seen in the UK edition and
>the other was a much more subdued picture of a Lunar soldier drawn by
>Dan Barker.
Dan's picture was not commissioned for the cover - Dr. Mark was given the
task. Although after the page 3 dryad debacle of issue #4 Mark obeyed
David Hall's "No Nipples" rule, after we saw what he did with the cover
we cold feet and substituted Dan's picture. Now that I've seen what Dan
has got away with for the Wyrms Footprints book, I don't know what we were
worried about...
>--David "not Baur, Blair, Blizzard, Cake, Camoirano, Cheng, Cordes,
>Cowling, DeKruger, Dunham, Edison, Hall, Hayes, Hixon, Leighton,
>Millians, Pearton, Radzik, Shubert, Simkins, Straub, Wible, or Williams
>but" Gadbois
--MOB - not "...of sheep", "...of kangaroos", "...of broo", nor a Germanic,
Visigothic or Barbaric, but a mob of MOB.
---------------------
From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Chaos cults ; Tradetalk
Message-ID: <_28470_Sat_Aug_27_12:45:41_1...@bnr.ca>
Date: 27 Aug 94 08:45:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5908
According to Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 5859 we won't be getting a new
version of Vivamort for a while yet; and the "Shadows on the
Borderlands" writeup of Thanatar was the final official word. IMO the
writeup of Thanatar in Shadows on the Borderlands was disappointing.
Since I happen to feel that these are two of the most interesting
chaotic cults out there to prey on foolish adventurers, I have written
up my own versions of them over the last few years.
I am willing to share these with anyone who is interested. They are
rather long so I am reluctant to toss them on the Daily (35k for
Vivamort 80k for Thanatar). If there is interest then I will send them
to individuals or to the Digest.
Fair warning to those interested: some of the details of cult special
magic are still not worked out to my satisfaction, so you will not be
getting complete play-tested and ready-to-play material.
---
I will explain my disappointment with the "Shadows" Thanatar writeup.
The writeup did manage to simplify some of the confusing parts of the
old Cults of Terror description. This was good. However, I feel that in
simplifying matters it went too far and some of the flavour (or should
that be "stench"?) of the cult was lost. The differences between the
aspects of Than and Atyar were not emphasized except to specify which
spells each aspect got.
I was looking for a writeup that would build on those differences and
make it clear that the cult is a semi-successful fusion of two radically
different approaches to their god glued together by a rather shakily
defined third aspect. (It hasn't been explicitly stated anywhere, but I
assume it was some God Learner who created Thanatar from two previously
existing cults.)
----------------------
Tradetalk
To those who are busy debating whether Terra's version of Tradetalk is
English or American, may I propose a third contender:
Canadians are being hired throughout the world to act as radio and
television announcers because Canadian English is clearly intelligible
to most English speakers around the world. Something which can not be
said of the highly idiosyncratic modes of speech common in many regions
of Britain or the USA. Sorry guys, but the true Tradetalk is Canadian.
Take off, eh!
---------------------
From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Newtling worship
Message-ID: <_450_Sat_Aug_27_13:20:05_1...@bnr.ca>
Date: 27 Aug 94 09:19:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5911
To Michael C. Morrison in X-RQ-ID: 5901
Apple Lane included a Newtling Father god who was injured in the Gods
wars and needed help to recover some severed parts. The local tribe of
Newtlings apparently worshipped him but I guess that he could not extend
his power further because of his injuries. If he was restored then he
probably would become their dominant deity.
(Idea bubbles up from my subconcious: Could that Newtling Father be some
sort of fallen dragonewt? That would explain the mysterious link between
the Dragonewts and Newtlings. If he was the first dragonewt to fall,
then that would explain why dishonoured dragonewts are reborn with the
skills of a newtling. Can anyone build on this idea?)
Currently Newtlings mostly worship local river deities and certain
water-related spirit cults like Frog Woman and River Horse. These are
written up in Borderlands (out of print). Were they reprinted in River
of Cradles? I can't remember and I'm at work so I can't look it up.
I've been running a newtling character off and on for some time now. His
only religious avenue has been Zola Fel. If we can come up with more
options then I would be keen.
I suppose that Diros the Boatman would be an option, many bachelor
newtlings make their living as boatmen. Has that cult ever had a
complete writeup?
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Aleci, Elmal, Flood
Message-ID: <1994082802...@radiomail.net>
Date: 28 Aug 94 02:03:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5912
Sandy writes
>I like the name "Aleci" for moose hsunchen and will institute it in
>my campaign. Thanks, Jonas and one of the many Daves.
I've always considered myself the Source of the David rune.
1. Gods of Glorantha is the source of information on rune Sources, and I am
the only David mentioned therein.
2. Despite misidentification by an owner of the Obnoxious Pedant rune, I
possess the David rune, not the debased form, the Dave rune.
Although the Aleci (Moose Hsunchen) only entered my Ralios campaign by a
lucky die roll when we were determining who had fostered Konall "Moose Boy"
Ekelsson, I'm glad they did!
Here's all I know about them (I've posted some of this before).
There are about 1500 Aleci in the East Wilds, divided into three clans:
Ochre Top, Roseberry, White Hare. Aleci are +2 to SIZ, -1 DEX, +2 CON (this
in Pendragon terms).
Tramak is the chief of the Ochre Top clan, a huge, somewhat clumsy man.
Hruktuk is the leading shaman of the clan. He dresses in women's clothing,
and his wife hunts. One of his notable spells lets him shake an oak tree,
bringing down a rain of acorns.
The Aleci clans are nomadic, splitting into family groups most of the year.
In Dark Season and Storm Season their camps tend to be larger, perhaps even
the entire clan. There's no fixed pattern to their wanderings, but they
tend to be found in the same moist woods and lakesides as the moose. As a
consequence, they fish more than most Hsunchen.
Methe the Traveller, devotee of the Speaking God and member of the
Belovaking Clan Ring, has this to say about them (actually, the Hsunchen in
general):
All of the Hsunchen tribes worship their totem animal. Their god
provides magic to turn into that animal, but it's difficult to cast, and
they usually do it only once a year. Sometimes the transformation isn't
complete -- I had a hard time not laughing when I saw one of the Aleci
walking around with the body of a man but the antlered head and four long
legs of a moose.
The Hsunchen live in large tents shaped much like our own houses.
They paint them with magic designs. Birkiska Leaves-No-Tracks, chief of the
Raccoon People, owns a huge tent all of us here could fit in. It's made
from a single skin, though I couldn't tell what animal it was from.
Among the Deer People, shamans wear the clothing of the opposite
gender. One of them told me that dressed as a woman, he was able to seduce
the more powerful spirits, or fool the weaker spirits so they didn't flee
when they spotted him. His wife took a bow and hunted to help with the
ruse.
Some of these people use flint-tipped weapons. Though not as
impressive or sturdy as bronze, they can still deal unpleasant wounds.
Strangely enough, the dragonewts of Ormsland also use flint weapons. Eurgan
made this verse:
"Beast-brothers wield black glass blades,
Dread dragonspawn does the same."
We've decided that Elmal's holy days are the same as Yelmalio's (Fireday,
Truth week), except high holy day is in Storm season.
Devin wonders
>Therefore, I am still perplexed why Yelm
>would choose to cleanse the world with an impure element (Water), using a
>Rebellus Terminus vehicle (Rain) to cause to flood a Lower and therefore
>unclean deity (Oslira).
Maybe Plentonius ascribes motivations to Yelm, when in fact Yelm had
nothing to do with the event? To Plentonius, such an important event had to
be connected to Yelm. (BTW, a very quick skim doesn't show that Yelm had
anything to do with the flood, or are we talking about a different flood?)
---------------------
From: seve...@CERF.NET
Subject: subscription
Message-ID: <Chameleon.940827220047.severian@_.cerfnet.com>
Date: 28 Aug 94 04:58:15 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5913
I have followed some recent digest releases on at soda.berkely.edu
and would like to subscribe. Thanks :->
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Things amonst other things
Message-ID: <01HGEZ728...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 28 Aug 94 09:32:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5904
Personal Attacks and Invective:
===============================
What really irked me about Nick's posting was not that he disagreed with me but
chose to treat my posting in a dismissive matter. When I pressed him for a
clarification, he disliked my work because I do not follow his preconcieved
notions of how myths should be interpreted rather then offer any constructive
criticsm or alternative opinion like Pam Carlson does in X 5903. I fear that
we will no longer have to worry about our vision of glorantha being gregged but
worry instead about our freedom to interpret glorantha being 'nicked'. In
future, Nick, instead of quibbling about mistypings, divining 'true colours',
deriding other peoples work as tedious/tetendious and then have the audacity to
try and have the invective removed from the post, I would suggest you take off
your blinkers and prosper thereby.
Entenkos and Annilla: A Mother's story
=======================================
>I can't pretend to follow PHM's argument: He says that Entekos is not the
>Mother of Moons, and that Annilla is not a moon, and that therefore... at this
>point I become lost.
I shall explain again.
Entekos is the Mother of Moons.
This is what was written by Pletonius on the Gods Wall between the acension of
Khordavu (say) and the Writing of the manuscript of the GRAoY which is between
220 ST and 244 ST. The question is: By what did the Dara Happans mean or
understand when they say the word 'Moon'.
We, in this day of 1621 ST, know of two moons: the Red Moon and the Blue Moon.
(I shall not deal with the white moon as it has not come yet). The Red Moon
rose in 1247 ST. Thus the Dara Happans cannot have been referring to her.
This leaves Annilla as the Blue Moon. Perhaps the Dara Happans are refering
to her? This seems a plausible hypothesis until we look at Gods Wall IV-15
which appears the Goddess 'Annilha'. She is described by Pletonius as "Goddess
of Death. She is the assasin of Murharzarm. She has bats ears and wings."
What Mr P. DOES NOT SAY is that she is the Blue Moon nor does he associate any
explicit lunar powers with her.
As confirmation of this in the Annilla cult writeup and in Elder Secrets,
Annilla is stated as a prominent heavenly body during the Gods War. Yet
neither the Dara Happan Copper Ledgers nor the commentator's footnotes to the
prologue give *any* mention of annilla or the blue moon.
Thus the Dara Happans when they spoke of Entekos as the Mother of Moons cannot
have been thinking of Annilla. (unless Nick, perhaps, refuses to believe in my
identification of 'Annilha' as Annilla in which case Sandy should hand over the
crown of most obnoxious pendant.) What I believe the Dara Happans meant at
the time of the wrting of the GRAY by 'moon' is some of the celestial sons of
Yelm. (I must state that this is IMO). Do you understand now, Nick?
Voria
=====
>>I challenge him to produce one example where [Godtime] was otherwise
>Voria. Firstborn and lastborn of the Gods.
The tales of Voria are contradictory. In the prosopaedia GoG, she is referred
to as the daughter of Yelm and Ernalda whereas in KoS, she is referred to the
daughter of Orlanth and Ernalda. The Elves are closer to the truth I suspect
when Voria dances the rites of spring with High King Elf which (to my mind)
implies a pre-existing ritual.
This leaves us with two answers.
1) there were many goddesses of spring and the God Learners unified them into
one in order to comprehend the many earths better. That is why Voria has
different birthdates within Godtime.
2) The myths of Yelm and Orlanth is this respect are bunk. The theogony of the
Earth as cited in the RQ companion is an attempt by Esrolian priest to place
the six goddess in respect to Gata. IMO the real cycle goes something like this
1) Voria: Born when the earth first peaked her head abover the
waters.
2) Babeester: Agonies of Puberty. This makes the ale myth an
interesting commentaries of what Orlanthi and Esrolians
view as usual behaviour for teenage girls.
3) Maran: The chaste goddess. (not gor yet)
4) Ernalda: The prosperous mother.
5) Asrelia: The even more prosperous grandmother.
6) Ty Kora Tek:The Crone.
Of course the Gods War transmuted the aspects of Barbeester, Maran and Ty Kora
Tek to the earth goddess we fear and respect today. This is the version I
prefer.
Entekosiad
==========
>>[I identified Gods Wall II-2 through to II-5 as being stages in life of the
>>Dendara and names for her cult stations.]
>In the Entekosiad, Arrira, Naveria/Sedenya, Lesilla and Koveria are the
>daughters of MaElsor, not of Dendara.
This mention of MaElsor as the father of Ariria, Naveria/Sedenya, Lesilla and
Koveria is news to me as is also the identification that Sedenya is Naveria.
According to tidbits from the DHBE that Joerg has told me about, MoElsor was
some type of Creator God (although he did protest furiously at speculations I
made to link it up with Lunar Tribe of Choas/Tribe of Law myths). We can
synthesize this information by MaElsor being the male father of Dandara and/or
her children. How MaElsor gets involved in this, IMO, seems to be a desire by
the Pelandrans to fit a male role into their society which had been missing
since Genert was killed. I know more when I read the Entekosiad.
To me the most unsatisfying aspect about the myth of Dendara was that how she
got to be worshipped in both Dara Happa and Kralorela. If she was born in
Kralorela and if she is not a God Learner composite diety, we have two
disparate versions of her myth. In Dara Happa she becomes the role of wifely
fidelity and remains loyal to departed Yelm. She thus appears in the myth of
Dara Happa in YS 25,000 which is when she was married to Yelm.
In Kralorelan myth, she enjoys congress with Shavaya. Now Shavaya we know is
the fourth ruler of splendor after Metsyla and Yelm. Metsyla seems to be a
contempory of Murharzarm in that both are rulers after Yelm. (others I would
speculatively place in this are Ehilm, Victorious Zenith and perhaps Valzain).
Murhazarm we knows passes on about YS 100,000 but we know he was important
enough to be chosen by Yelm to establish Dara Happa in YS 60,000 when Umath
tore apart heaven and earth. Metsyla could have passed away at either of these
two dates (ie he is dismembered when Umath makes room, or he dies when Yelm
passes on). This means that Dendara, the model of wifely fidelity in Dara
Happa after 60,000 YS (when Yelm is no longer near the earth) enjoys a
different reputation in Kralorela!
Comments?
---------------------
From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Alison Place on Diverse Topics....
Message-ID: <_28545_Sat_Aug_27_12:46:21_1...@bnr.ca>
Date: 27 Aug 94 08:45:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5909
(Alison Place here, not Ian Gorlick.)
Now that I've finished reading 10 days backlog of dailies, which is not
a quick task, there are a few things that I would like to stick in my
tuppenceworth on.
1. Arkat's father: So, the Brithini are sure that he was only Brithini
on his mother's side. Sounds like they're trying to shift the blame for
this one. One of theirs as long as he was heading for Brithini herodom,
but tainted by barbarian genes and influences as soon as he takes off!
2. In David Cake's message (5655, a long time ago), he mentions the
need for initiates to get back to their temple for holy days. I have no
doubt that when you live near one, you are damn well expected to show
up. An initiate who lives far, far away (OK, I admit this applies to my
own guy Marcus, who lives at Ronegarth), e.g. at least a week's travel
from the nearest shrine, much less temple, may not have the same
restrictions. A farmer who is away for two out of every eight weeks
won't get all their farming done. It could be that this is just one of
the prices of being an initiate in many cults; you are truly expected to
be there, and no excuses are accepted. However, allowances may be made
for decent reasons, and I would think that the Lunar Empire is
particularly flexible in this regard, as an expanding organization
wanting everyone to become a convert. Comments?
3. Bless Crops, iron in the earth, and how large is an acre?
To answer the former first, it seems that on Earth, the original
definition of an acre was the area of land that a man and a yoke (that
is, two) of oxen could plow in a day. This was tremendously variable,
and could have different measurements even on the same domain. Various
English kings (Henry VIII included, though he wasn't the first)
standardised it as any area of land measuring 4840 square yards.
If there are any who would like to read an excellent description of
the progressive abilities of medieval European farmers, I recommend The
Medieval Machine: The Industrial Revolution of the Middle Ages, by Jean
Gimpel. In it he describes the effects of better climate, three-field
versus two-field rotations, horses vs. oxen, shoeing one's animals,
using a proper horse collar, using more than one animal to pull, and
different types of plows, to name a few variables. Any discussion of
what is a normal yield, or how long it took a farmer to plow, needs to
define all of these. For instance, "in the twelfth century in the
Slavic lands, east of Germany, the unit of labor was what one horse or
two oxen could plow in a day." He describes yields for wheat varying
from 2.5 times the amount of grain sown to an amazing high of 15 times.
He mentions that the horse is generally more expensive to keep than an
ox, and where population pressure was not so great that utmost
productivity was not needed, the adoption of horses lagged greatly. My
local seer tells me that the Sun Domers in Prax have had great
difficulty in raising good quality horses, so they are probably stuck
with oxen unless they buy some good new imports.
Neil Smith mentions that he feels that an iron plowshare would
counter any fertility in the earth (5619). I don't think so, as it was
invented to annoy elves and trolls, not the earth. Of course, who can
afford one?
For Bless Crops, I still feel that it is a personal spell, that any
farmer could cast on himself or herself. Whether changing the animals
during the day would affect the spell, I don't know, and wouldn't worry
about. Since most farmers have to plow more than one acre every year, I
can see the logistics of priestesses getting all their Bless Crops
correctly cast when and where there will be no lost time to be rather
formidable. The idea that the ritual augments all yields, as in Tim
Minas' message (5851), doesn't really sit well with me. I would prefer
to use Bless Crops to make sure that an acceptable yield would always
occur, but spectacular yields were not due to that, but just to the
great weather we had that year. It seems more meant to be a safeguard
against starvation than an assurance of permanent bonuses. Neither do I
think that it can be used to concentrated effect on smaller plots.
In our game, there is a great spring ceremony on Aldrya's Day, when
everyone plows their heart out from dawn to dusk, and then revels at
night. There is also the ceremonial copulation in the fields between a
man and a woman to ensure everyone's fertility, and much private and
promiscuous celebrating after the plowing. It's one of those worship
ceremonies that no-one minds attending.
4. Disease Spirits.
Thanks to John Strauss (5671) for the idea about every disease
spirit having Summon Disease Spirit. I like that one. David Baur's
idea of them being all around, but not obvious since they have less than
1 POW (5668) doesn't work for me, as the usual rules state that one's
CON must be overcome before one is infected, and that takes a good,
obvious POW. Are you using a modification of this rule?
I was starting to think along the lines of a disease spirit
actually breeding in situ, by using the parts of one's abilities or
souls that it is destroying. In this case, it is stealing them for the
creation of new spirits. In fact, I even had the heretical notion that
it might be skimming unused magic points to do this. I realise that
this would be unique and need much explaining, but it does have several
virtues. Firstly, disease is contagious, unlike other forms of spirit
possession, and this is what initially annoyed me about them. Also, it
would make a longterm chronic disease much more beneficial from the
spirit's point of view, by increasing the chances of breeding more
spirits, while being much harder to detect. (We play that possession is
covert, unlike John, and thus a chronic case is hard to spot, and can do
a lot of damage before it is detected. We spend a lot of money at
Chalana Arroy being diagnosed, let me tell you!) This is frequently the
case among Terran diseases, which infect many more people if they are
not virulently lethal. Not only would the disease have fewer contacts
with likely victims before killing their present host, but said host is
frequently expelled from contact with most other potential hosts when
their disease is so dangerous. Refinements, anyone? I look forward to
the new Lords of Terror, and thank you for the notice, Eric.
5. Vinga = Orlanth Adventurous for women.
I don't like this one at all, for several reasons. Since Orlanth
is open to women, as well as men, why stick women in a special cult,
unless there is something very distinctive about it, such as emphasising
a dual heritage from both Ernalda and Orlanth? Also, why identify them
to all and sundry (not, presumably, that they aren't proud of it) by
making them spend tons of money on hair dye? The last thing that
occurs to me is that everyone then thinks of Vinga only as Orlanth's
daughter. Special abilities gained from her powerful mother, or
behaviour influenced strongly by her, are more likely to be ignored.
6. Hyaenas, and other Praxian carnivores
The recent discussion about Hyaena prompted me to think about what
their position is in Prax. The list of large carnivores is very short,
and consists of Allosauri (huge!), cliff toads (restricted habitat?),
Deinonychi (sight hunters, therefore daytime only) and very occasional
tigers and Smilodons in the Zola Fel Valley, plus the hyaenas.
Hyaenas must be a dominant carnivore, and the true hunter of the
night on the plains. Hear the hyaenas laugh, and look to your herds! I
am sure that all native Praxians have much more respect for the hunting
abilities of these animals than the discussion of them as carrion-eaters
would indicate, though their position as domestic animals of the
Morokanthi probably doesn't recommend them to many. Mind you, their
ability to gulp down huge chunks of meat at a sitting must certainly
have given Genert confidence. Is it possible that Hyaena has only had
that and his bonecrunching abilities since that time?
If you don't like hyaenas to be one of the most effective predators
on the plains, what about the running bears of the earlier Cenozoic, who
could run like wolves, and hunted in packs? Bet they could stampede a
herd just fine! Or dire wolves, a lovely Pleistocene import.
7. Sylila, as in, what does anyone know about it? My former main
character comes from there, but there is darn little information around.
What is the societal structure, the original pantheon before the Lunar
period, and any other quirks that might be known? I know that Hon-eel
is worshipped there as the maize goddess, that Sylila is probably a
Heartlands wannabe, but little else.
---------------------------------
By the way, RQ-Con Compendium plus many pages of dailies can be a
dangerous thing to read late at night. I had the most peculiar dream in
which three Orlanthi or Khelmali (can't remember which now) were
retrieving some ancient (pre-Gondwanaland) Barsoomian gems from a site
in South Africa. On the way out of the old palace, which was now part
of Kralorela, one of them got lost. He ended up in the Queen Mother's
apartments, who was extremely interested to talk to a real barbarian, as
she had been studying their religions and languages as a hobby.
Unfortunately, the alarm then woke me.
Bye for now, Alison
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: igor...@bnr.ca (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Vinga and The Cloak of Snakes
Message-ID: <_28624_Sat_Aug_27_12:47:53_1...@bnr.ca>
Date: 27 Aug 94 08:46:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5910
(Alison Place here, not Ian Gorlick)
I just received my RQ-Con Compendium today, and have read it from
front to back. Yes, people should definitely shell out the $15 to
purchase one. I only regret that I didn't ask David to put his
autograph in it. I did notice that sometimes a character or two at the
end of a row would be omitted. One of those affected was my story on
Vinga. With David's previously granted permission, I am sticking it in
the Daily. I welcome comments on it.
Vinga and the Cloak of Snakes
-----------------------------
During the Greater Darkness, while Orlanth was absent upon the
Lightbringer's Quest, Elmal acted as steward in his stead. Chaos had
pressed the Air Tribe fiercely, and even untried warriors had been
needed to fill the spaces in the ranks. Vinga Orlanthsdottir had asked
Elmal for a warrior's task, but had only been sent on patrols and had
not seen battle yet. Returning from such a patrol, Vinga came to her
mother's tent to find Ernalda clasping Voria in her arms, and both
weeping bitterly.
"O my mother and my sister, what is the matter?" cried Vinga, as she
knelt to hold her sister, Voria. Voria raised her head from her
mother's lap, but all she could say was "Barntar", before her weeping
began afresh. "Yes," said Ernalda, "Thy brother Barntar was captured
while on scout across the Black Eel River, by Ragnaglar the Cruel.
Ragnaglar has sent word that he intends to kill Barntar in a hideous
way, to avenge himself on thy father, Orlanth."
"If that is so," demanded Vinga, "what is being done? For I have just
walked through the camp, and there are none arming themselves to rescue
my brother!" "No," replied Ernalda, "for to attack the camp of
Ragnaglar would serve for nothing, except perhaps to cause him to
execute my son quickly. That, while it would be a great mercy for
Barntar, would be bought at the cost of many lives, and the price is too
great. So Elmal and I have both agreed."
"Yet, I cannot let my brother die without any attempt to save him." said
Vinga. "Perhaps there is another way. Will you aid me, mother?".
Trusting in her daughter, Ernalda assented, and asked in what way she
could assist. "Summon to you, my mother, thy little daughters, the
members of the viper tribe. Let them weave for me a cloak, that all may
know that I am Vinga Ernaldasdottir."
As Ernalda called, the serpents came, smooth-sliding, ground-gliding,
glistening in the torchlight. Vinga knelt, and they twined up her arms
and down her back, the asp and the adder, the copperhead and
cottonmouth, the rattlesnakes and the krait, many-banded. Last came the
coral snake, to clasp the cloak as a living jewel, and the cobra, who
spread her hood for the first time, to shield the red hair of Vinga from
the sight of all.
Vinga stood, and received her mother's blessing. Then the three
embraced, and exchanged the kiss of kin. Vinga slipped quietly out of
the camp and into the darkness.
She moved silently and swiftly towards the Black Eel river beyond which
lay the camp of Ragnaglar. At the shore of the river, she knelt again.
"O daughter of our mother," whispered the serpents, "what would you have
us do?" "Make for me a coracle," said Vinga, "so that I may cross to
the other side." Quietly they slipped off her back, and wove themselves
into a little boat. Vinga stepped inside, and drew her sword to scull
across. There she dried her blade and sheathed it, and once again the
snakes ascended her arms and cloaked her.
As she came nigh the camp of Ragnaglar, the guards saw her, and would
have laid hands on her, but the very air around her hissed, and they saw
that it would be death to touch her.
"Take me to Ragnaglar," she said, "for I would speak with him regarding
my brother." Reluctantly they brought her to where he was holding court
in a great tent. His soldiers gave way before the threat of her cloak,
and Vinga stood before him. There the cobra folded her hood, and Vinga
shook loose her red hair. "Who are you, and what are you doing here?"
demanded Ragnaglar, his lust stirring at the sight of her. "I am Vinga
Ernaldasdottir. I have come to ransom my brother's life with my own."
she replied. "You are Vinga Orlanthsdottir, and you are both fair and
foolish. Why should I give back your brother, when you have come to my
hand of your own will? No. I shall kill him, and keep you for my
pleasure, and thus shall I be doubly revenged upon your father."
At this, Vinga buried her head in her hands, and sobbed. "Oh, oh, you
are right, I have been a fool to think that I could save my brother
thus. One thing only, then, do I ask of you. Let my brother not see my
shame and folly." Ragnaglar the Spiteful heard this, and called for
Barntar to be brought before him then and there. When Barntar, bound
with strong cords, was brought to the tent, he cried aloud with grief at
seeing his sister there also. Vinga ran to his side, and as she
embraced him she whispered in his ear, "As you love our lives, make it
your last request to see me dance one more time."
"It is time for you to die," said Ragnaglar, "and I thought that your
sister would like to watch." "I can do nothing to stop you," replied
Barntar, "but if you would grant a last request, I beg you to let me see
my sister dance one more time before I die." At this, Ragnaglar paused,
and thought of how exciting a woman could be when she danced. Seeing
that he agreed, Vinga removed her boots, and called for another sword
beside her own to form the cross for the sword dance. For the sword
dance had been taught to her by her father and brother, and it was this
dance at which she was best.
Then she stepped to the swords, and began to dance. She danced slowly
at first, as if afraid that bare foot would meet bare blade, and then
her bright blood would flow. Gradually, the rhythm of her steps
increased, and as she danced the rattles that fringed her cloak kept the
beat. As she danced, she whirled, holding the edges of her cloak in her
hands, and the scales of the serpent cloak glinted red and silver, green
and gold in the torchlight. Faster and faster she danced, until her
feet were a blur above the blades, and the rattles buzzed without
ceasing. The cloak lifted as she spun till it was as high as her
shoulders and her lissome body was exposed to the lustful gaze of
Ragnaglar. When it seemed that she could dance no faster, she cried
out, "Fly free, little sisters!", and the cloak dissolved into a rain of
agony and death upon the crowd. The snakes which she had clutched she
threw into the face of Ragnaglar, and as he screamed in pain, she swept
up her sword and the other, and slicing her brother's bonds, thrust one
hilt into his hand. Holding his other hand in hers, they ran from the
tent towards the river.
Long had the viper clan warred with the chaos tribe and now they were
among their enemies who were mostly unarmed and unarmoured. The serpents
bit and stung, face and fess, heel and hand. For each foe that died of
tooth and poison another died of terror and panic. Their deed done, the
serpents slid into the darkness, and were lost in the night. Amidst the
rage and confusion of the moment, no-one saw the captives escape at
first. All too soon, the army boiled out of camp, hot upon revenge and
recapture.
As they reached the banks of the Black Eel River, the pursuit was close
indeed. Vinga cried out, "For the sake of Heler of the Water Tribe, our
father's bondbrother, save us from Chaos, O Spirit of the Black Eel."
Without waiting for a reply, Vinga and Barntar leapt into the water, and
let it close above their heads. When the creatures of Ragnaglar came to
the shore, there was no sign of either Vinga or Barntar, neither
upstream nor down. Thus they reported the two drowned in the river.
The spirit of the river had heard their plea, however, and carried them
safely away, hidden from the eyes of all searchers.
When they were abreast of the camp of Orlanth, the spirit brought them
gently to shore, bidding them remember her service. As Vinga and
Barntar rose, wet from the water, their kin found them. The word of
their return flew before them, and all grief turned to joy. Great was
the feasting, and great was the praise from Elmal himself. From that
day forward, Vinga Ernaldasdottir sat in council with the greatest of
the warriors, and led women to battle in her own way.
________________________________
The idea of the cloak of snakes I purloined from a Russian story about
Zoulvisia, a warrior woman who was courted by the usual besotted prince.
In this story, the snakes wove a raft for the wicked witch who sold the
knowledge of how to grab Zoulvisia to a rival king. I just used the
snakes as earth creatures who would help Vinga rather than the evil
creatures in the original. I would obviously give Vingans the power to
command snakes in any cult description. Everything else was frantically
thought up on the night before and in the long drive down to RQ-Con.
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: PMic...@aol.com
Subject: A request
Message-ID: <940828102...@aol.com>
Date: 28 Aug 94 14:28:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5914
Once again, I ask of the Gloranthan scholars:
I remember reading some time ago a brief (1-2 paragraphs) letter about the
differences between the EWF and the God Learners. I think it was from the
point of view of an EWF'er, and basically said that where the GL's have
"width", the EWF has "depth." Was this a wishful hallucination, or can
somebody help me remember where this could be found? My filing system is
still more influenced by Eurmal than Lhankor Mhy...
Peace,
Peter
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Moose and Squirrel
Message-ID: <940828173...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 28 Aug 94 07:31:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5915
Okay, firstoff, the correct name for the really big one is "Moose". The
reason that it's correct is the same reason that the Pax Britannica was
correct--the USA has the money and the guns and is psychotic enough to
use them for no particular reason. This, if nothing else, makes us the
natural heir to the British empire--emulating our forebears, no?
The above argument is equally as valid as any other broached on this list
for the "correct" usages of "Moose" and "Elk" and "Red Deer".
In my campaign, the followers of Baron Moosehsunchen are called "Moose Folk"
by the virtous, freedom-loving, libertarian Theyalans and "Elk Folk" by the
vile, chaos-sucking, totalitarian Lunars.
Of course, that's only the scholars. My players and any normal folk they
would talk to would call them "Those godawful damn-BIG Hsunchen!"
Anyway, everybody knows that Moose Hsunchen must be closely allied with
a pygmy tribe--the Squirrel Hsunchen.
Both of these tribes are threatened by the machinations of two Lunar agents,
a short man and a tall woman. They speak with thick Carmanian accents and
constantly plot the destruction of the heroes of the two tribes.
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Ducks
Message-ID: <940828173...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 28 Aug 94 07:33:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5916
Ducks play an important part in my campaign. They are the only Beast People
who are strongly allied with a human political unit. They also maintain
ties with the sentient inhabitants of Beast Valley. This may prove extremely
important in the upcoming trials for Kerofinela. Imagine Duck Humakti astride
Centaur lancers screaming "Ironhoof and Humakt!".
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Re: Thaw of Jonatela
Message-ID: <H.ea.loT...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 28 Aug 94 18:42:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5917
First of all, thanks for filling me in about Bullwinkle, Scott. Now
if this is the common source of inspiration about Hsunchen, I won't
complain about Hershell Lewis or similar "serious" sources any more.
Alex Ferguson in X-RQ-ID: 5879
Moi:
>> Jonatela embraced its western parts before 1616 (when it opened to the
>> rest). Timms thawed earlier, in 1597 (induced by the Lunars).
> As you were, I'd managed to misremember and misunderstand a misleadingly
> written paragraph in G:G. (p15c3para2, to be precise) Presumably the
> area actually being referred to is the "JON" of "JONATELA"... But while
> we're on this subject, why do you say the thaw was induced by the Lunars?
> G:G blames Dona boatmen, after all. Though this could cover people from
> Eastpoint egged on the Lunars, I suppose.
Something along that line. Eastpoint was the first city to have outside
contact (the Lunar moon-boat expedition of 1589, see Jar-eel, p.34).
Unlike the statement "[the Loskalmi] knights were instrumental in the
lifting of the Ban" (p.15) the Eastpoint info gives a few clues how it
escaped the isolation - lucky and clever use of one-use magic for the
outward journey and (probably simultaneous) entry of the moon-boats,
probably coordinated from the Red Moon, the goddess cheating once again.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: Arg...@aol.com
Subject: Not about Antirius or Elmal
Message-ID: <940828145...@aol.com>
Date: 28 Aug 94 18:54:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5919
MOB says:
>Paul Reilly and Finula posted some excellent stuff on ogres to
>the Daily a while back,
This might be true. They have certainly written many
intelligent, entertaining, and true things.
>and some of their material ended up in "Shadows on the
>Borderlands": 'Eat Your Enemy in Secret'.
However, I'm clearly credited with this piece on the title
page of SotB, and that crediting is correct. Having switched the
Peters, and shuffled the Davids, are we now randomly switching
U.S. citizens?
---===---
Ian Gorlick: please send me your Vivamort and Thanatar
write-ups.
---===---
I am now running a campaign using the old Borderlands boxed
set as a basis. If anyone has run this and added scenarios,
story lines, or recurring characters, I'd really appreciate it if
they sent those things to me. I have some ideas, but also have
10 players/characters, and I'm finding that a bit overwhelming.
As always, I'm willing to trade info, so anyone with Borderlands
info can send me a wish list of what you want, and I'll try to
match it to the stuff I've written.
---===---
One more bit on Bullwinkle:
In 1988, TSR (used to stand for Tactical Studies Rules, now
stands for nothing in particular) put out the Bullwinkle and
Rocky tm Roleplaying Party Game. It came with hand-puppets, two
dimensional rotating randomizers, and other neat stuff. I'd be
interested to know if anyone has actually PLAYED this game.
--Martin ("not Paul Reilly or Finula McCaul") Crim
---------------------
From: Ur...@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 28 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940828153...@aol.com>
Date: 28 Aug 94 19:34:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5920
Ian Gorlick says Tradetalk is Canuck:
You take off, eh! Many Americans speak in that flat, accentless news
announcer way to. And they get hired to be... news announcers. And don't try
to tell me that all Canadians sound the same, there are regional dialects
there. Quebec being the most slanted example.
No, tradetalk must be most like the lingua franca (pl. sp.?) around the world
where it uses items from many languages but does not belong to anyone in
particular. Like the various pidgin and patois languages throughout the
tropics. Or perhaps like English in India, where different groups use it to
communicate but it is not the milk tongue of any.
But I personally nominate Bahasa Indonesia, which developed from Pasar
(market) Malay, a trade language used throughout the Malay archipelago for
centuries and developed by the Dutch into a simple written form. It is almost
useless for conveying subtleties of emotion, but perfect for straightforward
trade communication. It's also easy to learn.
Mark Foster
---------------------
From: mcar...@fit.qut.edu.au (Robert McArthur)
Subject: Re: Magical Regiments
Message-ID: <1994082901...@ocean.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 29 Aug 94 21:22:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5921
One reason that magical regiments have only been seen in relatively
civilised areas (lunars ;-) could be that, to make it work, the members of
the unit must give their magic points and "spells" to another person/entity
(perhaps the esprit de corps). Traditional sorcerors, magicians, priests
and the like are usually not going to give all their power over to someone
else and so it takes something major to force/coerce them together and give
up a major part of their personal power to make a larger, more effective
whole.
It should be possible to do this with other spells/magics than the fighting
magics too. To take the de facto standard example of bless crops. Perhaps
there is a magical unit of blessers who can whop out a fantastically
powerful and wide ranging bless crops... Ironhoof's ability to stop all
horses is an example. I would postulate that this ability could be used in
many ways instead of just stopping the cavalry - perhaps like Hungry Jack
it could draw a cavalry unit towards Ironhoof...
Robert
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Joerg Teasing Sandy
Message-ID: <H.ea.ovV...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 28 Aug 94 18:43:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5918
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 5872
> Rich Staats:
>>Moose and Elk are quite different in appearance. What was the
>>original thread that prompted this question?
> The obstinacy of certain effete Europeans who refuse to
> recognize the greater vigor of the elegant American language.
Hmm... I can C what U aim 4, but don't ask me 2 believe U...
> Joerg:
>>Elk to Europeans is the swamp-dwelling thing; cervus elaphus
>>is non-European and unexpected in Europeanish context.
> But Cervus elaphus DOES exist in Europe, and in more numerous
> quantities than the moose.
Maybe I trusted your Linnaeus too blindly - I lack a decent zoology
reference book. If you mean the red deer of Europe, that's at most
SIZ 13, not the SIZ 22 buggers you talk about below.
>>Does this definition cover the (presumed extinct) plains elk of the
>>Praxian history?
> Moose require more than just wet boggy ground to survive.
> Willows, for one thing.
Hmm. I spent a year in northern Norway where there are quite a lot of
mooses but hardly any willow. Seems that birches and moss serve nicely
as diet for mooses. Dwarfed birches, come to that.
> I don't think the plains elk of Prax was a
> moose variety. It might have been a version of the now-extinct Great
> Elk (usually miscalled the Irish Elk in the U.S.A.), which we know to
> have existed in Ralios before the Dawn.
You talk about the Irish Deer, certainly. <grins pedantically, though
not obnoxiously so> Since you're the biology expert, what environment
did the Irish Deer live in? If it was pre-dawn Ralios, there was the
Great Primeval Forest. However, Prax and Genert's Garden were somewhat
dense Savannah as well at that time, cf. the Oakfed story. Did the lost
tribes of Praxian Beast Riders die out when the Oakfed deforestation took
their means of subsistance from them? (Not immediately, but constantly
declining.)
>> Fact is that while there might be more native speakers of Tradetalk
>>in the US, there are far more users of Tradetalk over here n Europe.
> That's because you are *sob* handicapped by the fact that
> most European English-speakers are forced to learn the obscure
> dialect of an isolated island off your northwest coast. I can only
> point out that the enormous hordes of Latin American Tradetalk
> speakers, who outnumber youse guys (ah, the wonders of American
> English) use the word "moose", if they know it.
Well, at some point in your history _my_ native language was in danger
of being reduced to Tradetalk. Luckily English lost when the vote went
for it to become the US official language. To paraphrase Shaw, English
hasn't been heard in the United States for a century.
> I think Joerg is half-right. I don't think the God Learners
> did it, though. I think it was done by the original Theyalans in the
> First Age -- when the Dawn Council went about waking up the world,
> they "discovered" that there was a trade god Garzeen in Seshnela.
> Clearly one of Issaries children.
Was this the Theyalan attitude towards deities encountered in their
expansion - just make them children of your own deities? Doesn't sound
too different from God Learning then. (Come to that, the Osentalka
project doesn't either.) I'd have expected an associate relation
between Issaries and Garzeen at first. IMO Garzeen is the aspect of
the 3rd Age cult most different from the Lightbringers' Quest deity,
a sedentary, little communicating god waiting for anything to come to
him. Harst at least actively visited his neighbours for trade goods.
> I believe that the God Learners took an already-unified
> Issaries cult, and then further modified it in such a way as to give
> all the various subcults organization and meaning. They may even have
> invented Goldentongue to fill a needed slot.
Seems the communication Rune works - I dont believe the cult was
already that unified, but I agree that they just added finishing touches.
While I'm at the dissemination of Issaries cult practices, what
about the mules? Outside of Prax there is no reason to use an
artificial pack beast other than its obvious good footing for mountain
travel. What kind of transport do the western Issaries traders prefer
(Fronela, Ralios, Maniria, Jrustela, Umathela)? As long as there are
decent roads or rivers, no reason not to use say ox-carts or barges.
Do the Stygian Trader Prince knights of Wenelia really use mules, or
do they have pack horses?
And where in Glorantha do we find donkeys in the wild? Horses apparently
originate from southeastern Ralios (Galanin) and from Saird (where
the people of Nivorah used them for the first time, to escape the
approaching Glacier, according to Plentonius/GRoY, naming Gamara but
possibly referring to Hippoi).
>>Should this be true, I deny to use any Pralori in my piece about
>>Ygg's Isles. I want sinister elk people, who can make a shield of
>>the antler by cutting off the toothy bits, who can swim between the
>>islands, etc.
> Apparently you know little about Cervus elaphus. They are
> HUGE and shaggy, with needle-sharp horns, excellent swimmers, and
> they can be mean. Bull elk (they're not called "bucks") make a sound
> during the rut that can only be described as a roar.
If this (and your cthulhuid story) is the case, I don't think we have
this beast over here in Germany. True, the red deer does something
which is described (in German) as "roehren", which seems to be somewhat
diminutive for "to roar", but while looking somewhat royal, the red deer
is too skittish to be considered majestic.
What I mean is that the beasts of Ygg's isles are the subarctic species
of large deer with spoon-like antlers a sub-average-sized man can walk
under.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
RQ Daily Discussion List
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: Dev...@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 28 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940829044...@aol.com>
Date: 29 Aug 94 08:43:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5922
Devin Here:
David writes:
"Maybe Plentonius ascribes motivations to Yelm, when in fact Yelm had
nothing to do with the event? To Plentonius, such an important event had to
be connected to Yelm. (BTW, a very quick skim doesn't show that Yelm had
anything to do with the flood, or are we talking about a different flood?)"
Correct you are, in the sense that it is not explicitly stated that the Flood
is caused by Yelm. Nevertheless, the fact that Yelm knows in advance about
the Flood AND that it just so happens to destroy all of the impure baddies
leads me to believe that their was some Yelmic origin.
I certainly agree that Plentonius would have no choice but to connect the
Flood to Yelm, but I just thought it odd that he would view it as an almost
wlecome and necessary event, unlike invasion after invasion after invasion of
Dara Happa which occur elsewhere and are regarded as calamity.
Regards,
Devin Cutler
dev...@aol.com
---------------------
From: CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Not about Antirius or Yelmalio
Message-ID: <01HGHU2FF...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 30 Aug 94 08:52:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5923
Vivamort and Thanatar
=====================
Ian Gorlick, please send me a copy of your Vivamort and Thanatar cult writeups.
Evading the Ban
===============
Joerg says the Ban was initiated by the Lunars, as opposed to the traditional
view of Dormal. I must say for the benefit of those who do not have Heroes
that many other people claim to have induced the thaw. These are the Kingdom
of War (due to their effort of striving to break all boundaries) and the
Ecclesiarch of Northpoint (who apparently performed a documented lengthy ritual
for just that purpose).
Red Deer of Europe
==================
I will now attempt to blunder into the Moose/Red Deer debate.
Joerg (teasing Sandy) wrote:
>Maybe I trusted your Linnaeus too blindly - I lack a decent zoology
>reference book. If you mean the red deer of Europe, that's at most
>SIZ 13, not the SIZ 22 buggers you talk about below.
The Red deer in New Zealand (introduced for hunting reasons) grows a lot bigger
than this due to lack of natural predators and a very good climate. I live
about a block away from a deer farm and the male deer can easily grow to this
size. Its horns can be quite fearsome (in the rutting/mating season) which is
why most hunters prefer to catch their stags from helicopters.
Mules
=====
>While I'm at the dissemination of Issaries cult practices, what
>about the mules?
>And where in Glorantha do we find donkeys in the wild? Horses apparently
>originate from southeastern Ralios (Galanin) and from Saird (where
>the people of Nivorah used them for the first time, to escape the
>approaching Glacier, according to Plentonius/GRoY, naming Gamara but
>possibly referring to Hippoi).
Perhaps Donkeys come from Kerofinela. There is a famous mural of Gilgamesh
which shows him in a war chariot drawn by onagers (wild asses). Given that the
Theyalans did not domesticate horses until the the battle in the sky (between
Orlanth and Kargzant), I think that they originally used donkeys. Now since
they were surrounded on the north by Horse nomads and on the east by the
Praxians, the pride of the theyalan calvary, a war chariot drawn by asses,
looks outclassed. I speculate that until the battle in the sky, the theyalans
having captured these magnificent animals and unable to tame them decided to
crossbreed the horse with their domesticated donkey to get its vigour. What
they got was a mule. Since this was even less useful in chariots, the mules
were dumped on the doorstep of the local Issaries merchant who attempted to
find a use for them.
--Peter Metcalfe CHE...@csc.canterbury.ac.nz
---------------------
From: guy....@chrysalis.org
Subject: GOING TO KANS
Message-ID: <940829015...@chrysalis.org>
Date: 28 Aug 94 23:58:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5924
I'm going to be in Kansas City on Labor Day Weekend for their renaissance
faire. If you're going to be there too, I'd like to meet you over a beer or
something. Let me know here or at guy....@chrysalis.org.
GUY HOYLE
aka Mulborth, Valgrim Bull-Answers-Twice, and Fido Two-Big-Clubs (among others)
---------------------
From: H...@LETT.KUN.NL
Subject: Convulsion '94, the video crew reports.
Message-ID: <C52E14FD9...@LETT.KUN.NL>
Date: 29 Aug 94 15:22:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5925
Well, here's yet another Convulsion aftermath message. This one's not
detailing what went on, but it describes how you can see (or re-see)
what you've been missing (or living through). Although I must admit
that there's almost no footage of the (according to the reports) main
activity: drinking beer.
My original plans for taping Convulsion included hooking the camera up
to the adaptor and to a normal recorder and just tape all the seminars
completely. This, of course, would have resulted in a 24+ hour recording
which would have outbored the long version of War and Peace. Un/Fortunately,
a problem occurred in that the connection between camera and adaptor seemed
to be out of order, and I had to use batteries. As a result, there's only
a three hour video of Convulsion '94.
Also I had planned to be buying an MPEG-II video card for my nice new PC
and do extensive editing, subtitling and many other nifty things in the
production of the tape. However, it seems that this card is not yet
available and possibly won't be for some months. So I decided to just
copy everything together. The events are more important than the editing
anyway.
The resulting contents:
Introduction. Who's who. Does Greg have that bodyguard because the ninja
is still around? Does Sandy really need that chainsaw all the time?
Is Jacob Jardine even now preparing Convulsion 2014? (5 min)
Cthulhu Party Party. The election of a Cthulhuish big shot as the next
European Chairman. See the organisation complain that the audience
makes too much noise after asking them in the flyer to prove that they
can outshout anyone. A perfect illustration of the UK political
system. (20 min)
Trollball. See MOB's description a couple of dailies ago. No more need
be said. (22 min)
The final (I hope) round in the infamous "Initiation Debate". Joerg and
Alex try to put this delicate subject (and each other) to rest with
the help of padded clubs. (3 min)
How the West was One. Even though I myself was busy playing a Rokari
bishop, there is extensive footage of this main event, thanks to Henk
who took over the camera for the duration. If you were in it, you can
now see how silly you looked in that hat, and possibly what was going
on while you were doing important stuff. If you want to be in it at
RQ-Con2, don't worry: you won't be able to deduce any important info
from this; even I have trouble understanding what is going on. But it
does look good. (85 min)
Gloranthan Storytelling. The best storytellers battle it out in the final.
Contains the full presentation of Lewis Jardine's winning entry (with
vocal support by the already mentioned Jacob). (40 min)
Greg Reads. Unfortunately, tape was running out at this time and there
was only room for one story: Grandfather Clay gets captured by Monster
Man. (5 min)
As promised to Joerg the Initiation Battle will in the future be captured
as MPEG and placed on soda (if Shannon doesn't mind), but this will have
to wait for that video card. As for the rest, we'll do the same as for
RQ-Con: everybody who wants a copy lets me know, by email (h...@lett.kun.nl)
or snail mail (Hans van Halteren, van Ewijkweg 3, 6861 ZB Oosterbeek, The
Netherlands). After a while I have a look at the number of requests and decide
on a means of distribution and on the necessity of payment (or swapment in
some cases). The video is in VHS/PAL at the moment but at least one NTSC copy
will be made anyway. So let me know if you want a copy.
Hans van Halteren (h...@lett.kun.nl)
---------------------
From: MOBT...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Whoops
Message-ID: <01HGHZPT1...@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 30 Aug 94 09:36:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5926
G'day,
_________
Mea Culpa
Sorry Martin, I should've checked before blithely ascribing your excellent
Ogre Culture write-up in SotB to Paul and Finula.
>Having switched the Peters, and shuffled the Davids, are we now randomly
>switching U.S. citizens?
Only inadvertently...
Martin goes on to say:
>I am now running a campaign using the old Borderlands boxed
>set as a basis. If anyone has run this and added scenarios,
>story lines, or recurring characters, I'd really appreciate it if
>they sent those things to me. I have some ideas, but also have
>10 players/characters, and I'm finding that a bit overwhelming.
>As always, I'm willing to trade info, so anyone with Borderlands
>info can send me a wish list of what you want, and I'll try to
>match it to the stuff I've written.
Not ready, but hopefully for RQ Con, my friend and erstwhile co-author
Trevor Ackerly is writing a "Host Your Own Murder"-style mystery called
"The Fall of the House of Rone". Who killed Duke Raus? (The Duke himself
is actually one of the players, hanging around as his ghost - it's handy
having a family shaman who knows Summon Ancestor...)
_______________________________
Statman Needed for New Scenario
I am currently writing a scenario for Tales #13 set beyond the Building Wall
in the Holy Country, and featuring (among others) western Rokari, a renegade
Aolian and a menagerie of Beast Men. David desperately wants this by mid-
September, as issue #13 must come out to bankroll the forthcoming
"Wyrms Footprints" book.
Would anyone like to help me with this scenario. Specifically, flesh out
(write stats for) about a dozen NPCs. I have written some background
for each of them, which you'll be able to work from, eg:
The Wizard
Father Pederik (pragmatic, unprincipled, calculating), a convert
from the Aolian Church during Richard of Malkonwal's campaigns.
He fled to Nochet after Richard's fall, and knows he can never
return to Heortland. Pederik joined the Rokari Church purely
for personal gain, but in his exile felt snubbed by Bishop and
the other clergy because of his "barbaric" background. However,
as a shrewd politician (who unfortunately backed the wrong side),
he has exactly the sort of qualities in a priest that the Capratis'
find useful, if not openly admire.
If anyone is interested, please get in touch. I need the stats fairly
quickly, and will in fact rewrite the scenario around any cool things the
writer dreams up in the process. The style to emulate when writing the stats
would be that of recent RQ publications, eg "Shadows on the Borderlands".
MOB - Not BOM, not OBM, not OMB
---------------------
From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Tradetalk
Message-ID: <940829151...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 29 Aug 94 05:13:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5927
Okay, in my campaign, Tradetalk as such doesn't exist.
We have several different "languages", each called "Tradetalk".
These languages are anything from pidgins to full-blown creoles, depending
on the locatin. In Sartar, "Tradetalk" is a pidgin that is heavily based
upon Sartarite dialects. It also has a LOT of Auld Wyrmish influence (about
equal)--although this is more grammatical than lexical, so most Sartarites
think of "Tradetalk" as "wierd Sartarite" and most Tarshites consider it
"wierd Tarshite". Tradetalk is generally only used between different
species, in Theyalan-Grazer interactions, in Theyalan-Core Lunar interactions,
etc. When Tarshites and Sartarites talk to each other, they usually end
up speaking their own languages, slowly and with much gesturing.
It also just so happens that Dwarves of the area consider the "Tradetalk" of
the area to be a "pidgin Dwarf". This is mostly due to the whimsy of the
Dwarf of Dragon Pass, who invented his own language for his associated
Dwarves to amuse himself. (He based in on EWF-ish, the language that evolved
into Auld Wyrmish.)
This particular "Tradetalk" is known from southern Peloria to Corflu and from
Esrolia to Prax. However, it is a Lingua Franca in the old sense.
The Trader Princes use a different "Tradetalk" that is based upon Old Jrusteli.
They claim that theirs is the "true" Tradetalk and the EWF-ish based one is
a result of hostile manipulations on the part of that draconic realm.
Kraloreli, of course, speak Kralori--and their customers learn pidgins based
upon it.
Ask ur...@aol.com what is used in the Vormain Isles.
---------------------
From: pa...@phyast.pitt.edu (Paul Reilly)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 29 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940829154...@minerva.phyast.pitt.edu>
Date: 29 Aug 94 15:40:17 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5928
MOB wrote:
>Paul Reilly and Finula posted some excellent stuff on ogres to
...
>and some of their material ended up in "Shadows on the
>Borderlands": 'Eat Your Enemy in Secret'.
Umm. That was Martin Crim. His article was primarily about "wild" ogres
who live out in nomad country, ours was more about city ogres. Attribute
the mixup to a brain cloud.
---------------------
From: RF...@academia.swt.edu
Subject: Borderlands
Message-ID: <01HGHCPQQ...@academia.swt.edu>
Date: 29 Aug 94 07:41:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5930
Hi,
Martin asks for Borderlands ideas. I'm currently playing (off and on)
in a campaign built around Duke Raus' domain. After completing the original
adventures, the Duke gave us land grants around the easy ford and use of the
Stone Tower (as long as we maintained it). We've actually founded a small town
around the river near the South Bog. I play a duck, so I've been recruiting
a lot of disgruntled ducks to come settle down in the area. Running a town
inspires a lot of adventures, particularly in terms of scouting the area and
in establishing trading routes.
In another twist, the GM has decided that Jezra, the Duke's hell-raising daughter, has joined Storm Bull. Part of it is due to her fiery personality,
and partly because Broos were responsible for her mother's death. It's made
things interesting for the poor Duke, who is trying to find some nice Lunar
noble to marry her off to.
I don't get to play all that often (my GM lives in another state),
so I don't have much else to add. I hope these ideas help.
JIM FLAMMANG
---------------------
From: SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: entekos
Message-ID: <01HGHK0WO...@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 29 Aug 94 10:37:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5931
Although I have not seen anything on the Entekosiad aside from what's
been written in the Daily, I would like to make several suggestions
about the Entekos/Molanni issue.
Entekos presumably is part of the ancient Pelorian religion (i.e. pre-
Dara Happan) worshipped presumably in the 1st century ST and linking
back to old Green Age myths. Entekos is, I believe, a land/earth
goddess. In the pre-Yelm period, either before or during Aether's
reign, the Earth presumably gave birth to children that rose up toward
the sky, and these were called the moons (same path the Red Goddess
followed when she took her place in the air/sky). The Dara Happans may
have ignored these celestial bodies since they weren't of a fiery nature
or were feminine in principle. But when Umath/Rebellus
Terminus/Orlanatus took to the sky and fought for a realm, these moons
were cast aside and down upon their mother (or escaped into the sky
realm). Seeing the disruption of the heaven, Entekos then gave birth
to or created the calm air (or gave up her earthly place to calm the air
herself). By the dawning, the moons were gone (or had moved and changed
themselves into wanderers like Tolat).
Molanni, on the other hand, may have been Theyalan in origin and unknown
in this region of the world (or she may have been a Dara Happan
construct to explain the presence of air when storms or winds are
lacking). Given the assorted Orlanthi mythos in KoS there is hardly
even room for a goddess such as Molanni (all the 'good' storm gods are
male after all).
Another possibility (and one that I like more as I think about it) is
that Molanni came from Prax--that she is in fact Mistress Calm, one of
the four air gods of that land--and she came with the Praxian
beastriders who helped oust the horse nomads from the Pelorian basin.
The beastriders would pre-date Plentonius and would have established a
place for Molanni. Plentonius would then have to include her in some
fashion, as would the Orlanthi, since the Dara Happans took so readily
to her role.
Entekos never travelled though and was largely suppressed by the Dara
Happans, though they recognized her as a provider and therefore included
her in a positive fashion.
I do not believe that Entekos and Molanni were the same in origin. They
may be the same now if some ambitious hero has linked the two cults
together, but I think the connection would remain fragile.
--Harald
---------------------
From: SMI...@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: sylila
Message-ID: <01HGHL01P...@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 29 Aug 94 10:59:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5932
- Alison asks about the nature of Sylila
Based on some discussion with Greg and my own investigations into the
Conquering Daughter, the following is a rough outline of my
understanding of the area.
First Age: native Pelorians in the area follow the land goddess
Reladiva who had conquered the god Oslir/Nestentos. Horse nomads have
difficulty in this area, perhaps driven away by a curse. Elves are
comfortable in their forest of Rist.
Area is liberated by the Theyalans who bring Orlanthi worship. This is
similar to the culture/worship that spreads into nearby Lakrene and
forms the basis of the Sylilan people/tribe.
Dara Happan resurgence conquers the area called Dara-ni, a linguistic
memory of their ancient Nivorah.
Second Age: Dara Happan Empire firmly in place until the EWF defeats
them. The Sylilan tribe trades with Dara Happa.
Eventually, the kingdom of Saird rises to help in the overthrow of the
EWF. They have a distinct culture, neither Orlanthi nor overtly Dara
Happan (though leaning more towards the latter than the former). The
strength of the Sylilan tribes is probably weakened.
Third Age: Saird falls at some point and the Sylilans reassert their
power. The River Folk are of importance by this point (they probably
have affiliations with the oldest native Pelorians of this area).
The rising Lunar Empire with Dara Happan affiliations conquers Dara-ni
(or it was previously conquered by a resurgent Alkoth). Sylilans and
River Folk pushed back. Major war starts with the Moonburn to force
elves out. Lunar colonizers arrive in Rist and Dara-ni. Hwarin
Dalthippa marries Ingkot to tie most powerful Sylilan clan to Lunar
cause. Other Sylilan clans and River Folk fight Lunar invasion. Hwarin
quests to become/invoke powers of ancient Reladiva and defeats the
barbarians.
Jillaro is built, as are the Lunar roads. More colonizers arrive. The
Lunars here convert many of the Orlanthi (best shown by the continuity
of this area with the Lunar way during the invasion of Sheng Seleris).
Current: Lunars firmly in place, almost like a piece of the Heartland.
The Conquering Daughter is the focus of worship and represents both
fertility (yes, she has fertility aspects now) and protection
(traditional idea of the warrior woman). Ernalda, if she was here, has
been driven out. Orlanthi customs, like the Council, probably exist in
rural areas, but the Council would be led by the Conquering Daughter and
aided by Etyries, Irripi Ontor, Yanafal Tarnils, Jakaleel the Crone, and
Danfive Xaron. In the colonized and urbanized areas, the older Pelorian
forms are reemerging and in Dara-ni, the Dara Happan patriarchal forms
are well entrenched.
Of course, not having the latest book DHBE means that any thoughts
recorded there are not here, so if there are contradictions there,
please add/revise the above.
--Harald
---------------------
From: sco...@olivia.cedar-rapids.ia.us (Scott Haney)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 29 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940829221...@olivia.cedar-rapids.ia.us>
Date: 29 Aug 94 22:17:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5933
Joerg:
First, Bullwinkle: you're welcome. (Although once you've seen an
episode, you may well want to retract your thanks. :)
Second, English:
&
& Well, at some point in your history _my_ native language was in danger
& of being reduced to Tradetalk. Luckily English lost when the vote went
& for it to become the US official language. To paraphrase Shaw, English
& hasn't been heard in the United States for a century.
&
Pedantic correction: The US has *no* official language and never has.
German lost by one vote back in the early days, but the Founders decided
that the 'great melting pot' shouldn't have an official language. Lately,
there's debate over this and a movement to make English (such as it is
over here) the official language. In fact, several states have already
done so.
Okay, okay, this is splitting hairs, but this is the RQ Daily...it's a
tradition!!!
& While I'm at the dissemination of Issaries cult practices, what
& about the mules? Outside of Prax there is no reason to use an
& artificial pack beast other than its obvious good footing for mountain
& travel. What kind of transport do the western Issaries traders prefer
& (Fronela, Ralios, Maniria, Jrustela, Umathela)? As long as there are
& decent roads or rivers, no reason not to use say ox-carts or barges.
I suppose that they use exactly that. Being a river rat myself, I see
them in late 1800-s style barges.
RQ Daily Discussion List
---------------------
From: sco...@olivia.cedar-rapids.ia.us (Scott Haney)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 29 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <940829220...@olivia.cedar-rapids.ia.us>
Date: 29 Aug 94 22:04:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5934
& From: jac...@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
& Subject: Moose and Squirrel
&
& In my campaign, the followers of Baron Moosehsunchen are called "Moose Folk"
& by the virtous, freedom-loving, libertarian Theyalans and "Elk Folk" by the
& vile, chaos-sucking, totalitarian Lunars.
&
Ah, fleeting fame.... :)
& would talk to would call them "Those godawful damn-BIG Hsunchen!"
Bingo! Why not just play them? Elk, moose, who cares? Some giant
of a man with horns and a maul isn't going to turn my mind to
taxonomy...I'll be thinking more of track and field!
___________________________________
\ \ _ ______ |
\ Scott Haney \ / \___-=0`/|0`/__|
\ \_______\ / | / )
/ / `/-==__ _/__|/__=-|
/ sco...@olivia.cedar-rapids.ia.us / * \ | |
/__________________________________/ (o)
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 27 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <H.ea.Sly...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 30 Aug 94 00:42:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5935
Nick Brooke in X-RQ-ID: 5885
> As Entekosa is a Pelorian rather than Dara Happan deity, the fact that
> neither Orlanthi nor Dara Happans comprehend her does not mean we can't.
> Given that Entekos is the Mother of Moons, and Molanni apparently is not,
> this seems to me to blow a hole in the identification of the two.
I have been discussing this with Peter for a while. What I think came
out confused/confusingly was our discussion about the identity of Gods
Wall II-1, given as Entekos by Plentonius. Peter pointed correctly
at the identity of this figure's rune and that of Dendara on the Copper
Ledger on p.4.
> I can't pretend to follow PHM's argument: he says that Entekos is not the
> Mother of Moons, and that Annilla is not a Moon, and that therefore... at
> this point I become lost.
Hmm. Entekos seems not to be the mother of the Blue Moon, whatever is
true about the rest. When I asked what makes a stellar body a moon in
the Convulsion Lore Auction, Greg didn't know. What moons are we talking
about, anyway? Planets going through phases of some kind?
> In the Entekosiad, Ariria, Naveria/Sedenya, Lesilla and Koveria are the
> daughters of MaElsor, not of Dendara. Can't think where the latter came
> from.
Does she appear at all?
>> I challenge him to produce one example where [Godtime] was otherwise.
> Voria. Firstborn and lastborn of the gods. KoS p.67, 89.
That's just cyclical time - Voria's birth is the mark of the beginning
of an era. Voria was born as Asrelia, and then as Ernalda, and ...
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: The Flood again
Message-ID: <H.ea.29&5QdQ...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 30 Aug 94 00:43:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5936
Devin's Homonculus in X-RQ-ID: 5899
Alex:
> "Perhaps the fact that Dara Happa is (presumably) subject to flooding by the
> Oslir is relevant here."
> Certainly, that is what I pictured as the underlying MO of the flood, but
> nevertheless, Plentonius describes it as a cleansing event initiated, albeit
> indirectly, by the Sky Gods (Yelm). Therefore, I am still perplexed why Yelm
> would choose to cleanse the world with an impure element (Water), using a
> Rebellus Terminus vehicle (Rain) to cause to flood a Lower and therefore
> unclean deity (Oslira).
Water as a means to devour bad influences is a common theme, in Glorantha
see e.g. Waha's use of the Founders River. Why pollute sacred fire when
impure water serves perfectly well to absorb the impurities?
Rain is a feature I don't quite believe that soon in the Lesser
Darkness - the waters still flowed uphill in that Age of the world.
> One would think that, considering all of these impure elements have ganged up
> on Darra Happa, that rather than a cleansing action, this would have been
> regarded as an invasion.
What happened IMO was that the invasion which had been suspended by
Murharzarm was continued after Oslira had been released from her old
bonds.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: j...@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Mindblasts and Thunderstones
Message-ID: <H.ea.SD7...@sartar.toppoint.de>
Date: 30 Aug 94 01:33:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5937
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 5893
Me:
>>The real difference is that the Lunars have Fear, Mindblast and
>>Madness, the Sartarites have only Demoralize and Befuddle
> Why don't the Sartarites have Lightning, Thunderbolt, Sever
> Spirit (for the Humakti among 'em), & Thunderstones? These seem
> nearly as useful as the Lunar assault magics.
Lightning and Thunderbolt are somewhat Storm parallels to Sunspears,
Sever Spirit is Yanafal Tarnils magic (although one-use), and
Thunderstones are similar to Selenes in their effect. I was talking
about mind-affecting spells, something the Lunars dominate.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner j...@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: ddu...@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Vinga; Hsunchen; Rocky & Bullwinkle
Message-ID: <1994083003...@radiomail.net>
Date: 30 Aug 94 03:19:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5938
Alison Place complained
>5. Vinga = Orlanth Adventurous for women.
>
> I don't like this one at all, for several reasons. Since Orlanth
>is open to women, as well as men, why stick women in a special cult,
>unless there is something very distinctive about it, such as emphasising
>a dual heritage from both Ernalda and Orlanth? Also, why identify them
>to all and sundry (not, presumably, that they aren't proud of it) by
>making them spend tons of money on hair dye? The last thing that
>occurs to me is that everyone then thinks of Vinga only as Orlanth's
>daughter. Special abilities gained from her powerful mother, or
>behaviour influenced strongly by her, are more likely to be ignored.
I enjoyed your Vinga story in the RQ Con Compendium, and was sorry that
some sort of printing error clipped part of it. Thanks for reposting it.
I think 85% of all Orlanthi women worship Ernalda as their primary deity
(at least as mature women, we'll ignore Voria and Asrelia). Of the
remaining 15%, worship would be split among Chalana Arroy, Issaries,
Lhankor Mhy, Yinkin, and Orlanth. Most, but not all, of the women who
worship Orlanth are in the Vinga subcult. (Women thanes would belong to
Orlanth Rex, for example.)
As you're well aware, the info we have on Vinga is mighty scanty, and the
only additional information is that she's worshipped as a subcult of
Orlanth. This doesn't necessarily mean that Orlanth is her father (though
both of us have assumed so). We have no information on her parentage --
she's notably absent from the Genealogy on KoS.63. I figured making her a
child of Orlanth and Ernalda (or Ralia, since I dabble in Ralian myth) was
too common. However, our myths could be reconciled by the fact that Ernalda
(Ralia) would have generously taught her stepdaughter a few Earth secrets
after she joined Orlanth's stead.
In my Ralios campaign, the Vinga worshippers all seem to enjoy liming their
hair to set themselves apart. It's something special they get to do, not
something they have to do to worship Orlanth.
A quote I ran across that might illuminate hsunchen:
"We Lapps have the same nature as the reindeer: in the springtime we long
for the mountains; in the winter we are drawn to the woods." --Turi's Book
of Lappland
> In 1988, TSR (used to stand for Tactical Studies Rules, now
>stands for nothing in particular) put out the Bullwinkle and
>Rocky tm Roleplaying Party Game. It came with hand-puppets, two
>dimensional rotating randomizers, and other neat stuff. I'd be
>interested to know if anyone has actually PLAYED this game.
I think I did play this once, at a party. It was a Warren Spector design,
right? I don't remember much else about it, but I think it was a decent
game.
---------------------
From: dav...@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: Toon-Quest
Message-ID: <1994083003...@cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 30 Aug 94 19:51:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5939
I know that at least one game of Toon-Quest has been played over
here, though not as based on particular cartoons as the suggestions made,
and also with a more adult flavour. But it was called Toon-Quest.
Characters included the expected ducks and hobbits, a baboon who
fought with a staff and rode on a sylph that appeared as a small pink cloud
(people unfamiliar with the japanese TV series Monkey will not understand
this one - suffice to say that it was an extremely trashy and silly
adventure series based on the classical Chinese tale, well known to most
Australians (the TV, not the classical Chinese stories)), and the infamous
Serge, a great troll of rather alternative sexuality who worried the others
a great deal.
I was not a participant, so that is all I can tell you about
proceedings.
Cheers
Dave Cake
---------------------
From: dav...@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: Re: Conceal and thief cults
Message-ID: <1994083004...@cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 30 Aug 94 20:19:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5940
Someone recently mentioned that Annilla was the only cult to get a
spell resembling invisibility.
Annilla is the only cult (so far) to get Invisibility the spirit
magic spell, but Conceal is available to the trickster Thief aspect.
May I also take this opportunity to lament the lack of a decently
developed PC thief cult in RQ3?
Krarsht is to chaotic to use as a PC cult. In any case the short
form version from GoG is a lot less interesting than the Cults of Terror
version - hopefully some of the fun stuff wil be restored in Lords of
Terror? It seems to be still valid, as Polybius from Sun County has
pratzim, Conceal, Krarshtkids, Sense Order, and poison brewing, all absent
from the GoG write up. I like it all, as it made Krarsht a really
resourceful and interesting enemy cult, while the GoG Krarsht seems to be a
lot less subtle. I think that all these abilities should return, and Impede
Law, Face Law, Krarshtides, and teeth of Krarsht. I am not sure about the
spell Image Creation, though, as it made disguise far too easy, and there
are no other spirit magic illusion spells. Perhaps as a Divine spell? Maybe
even a sub-cult divine spell?
Trickster has too many other connotations, as while trickster is a
thief, many thieves consider themselves part of society, not outcasts. The
many other connotations of trickster may only be appropriate for some
characters - the humour, the selfish murderer, the glutton.
So that leaves thief cults only, most of which are extremely small,
and the fact that most can only maintain shrines mean that most thieves are
limited to a single divine spell, in many cases one that is not even
directly useful in thievery. The thief cults are also woefully
underdeveloped.
I would like a more detailed writeup of something like Lanbril,
complete with a few more magics for those thieves that can manage more than
a shrine, and with more effort put into describing what other benefits the
cult offers, perhaps even a few spirit magics available. While I admit that
Lanbril was overdeveloped in RQ2 (with all their skills and gadgets they
became sort of Orlanthi ninja) but a few skills and gadgets, and minor
spells, would be nice.
In my game the one thief character has joined Lanbril, and I have
basically been winging it, using the RQ2 writeup as a potential list of all
that might be available, and then vetoing anything I don't like (which is a
lot). However, very few people are lucky enough to have access to the RQ2
Lanbril write up (from Pavis).
For those interested, I have vetoed Forget, Invisibility, and
Conceal (I may allow Conceal eventually, possibly as 1-use to priests), but
I have allowed Divination Block (currently being used to stop Duke Raus
discovering the location of his stolen wand of the Red Moon), and the
special spirit magic spell Face of Lanbril (I consider this is not exactly
an illusion, but an attention affecting spell like Conceal. It does not
divert attention entirely, like Conceal, but it does make it very hard to
recall details). I also assume that Black Fang has some access to Conceal,
in addition to Shattering.
Cheers
Dave Cake
---------------------
From: san...@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 27 Aug 1994
Message-ID: <940829183...@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 29 Aug 94 06:30:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5929
Nicky:
>I think the modern consensus is for a red moon visible practically
>everywhere in Glorantha, visibly going through its phases both
>inside and outside the Glowline.
Though I basically agree with this, there must be
_some_difference in her appearance within the Glowline. Perhaps the
"dark" part of the moon is just a different shade of red. Or maybe
there is some sort of nimbus -- a lunar corona -- visible only within
the Glowline that keeps the light equally bright at all times.
Perhaps it intensifies during dark/dying days to make up for the
dimmer moon?
Alex:
>I think the point of the Magical Regiments isn't the _magic_, it's
>the _regimentation_.
Strong Concurrence. Hearty agreement. Hear, hear.
The Lunar innovation in making the magicians a disciplined
organized force is as great, I feel, as the invention of walking in
step, the stirrup, or the nomad innovation of Not Taking Your
Families With You To War. It is a fundamental alteration in
Gloranthan warfare.
Just the fact that you're now able to have an entire regiment
cast Sunspear in the same strike rank makes a pretty damn big
difference in combat. Just the threat of them doing so probably has a
pretty major morale effect on any enemy units that draw within 100
meters.
Pam C.
>In short, moose seem gentle and comic to most North Americans,
>while wapiti seem fierce and noble.
An excellent summation. Given that North Americans actually
live in a country where both moose and elk exist, whereas our British
and German friends don't have any of 'em, unless you count the
undersized Red Deer, you'd think they'd give more credence to our
debased American interpretations of these beasts.
>Maybe this is because wapiti are herd animals, famed for their
>fighting abilities, while moose are solitary, shy critters
Two other emergency back-up reasons. (1) the moose cry is
distinctly a honk, whereas the bull wapiti emits a real roar. And (2)
no one I know has ever had a problem with a moose -- I know a guy who
walked into his barn to find a moose there, got mad at it, and it
left sheepishly. He'd _never_ have done that to a wapiti. While a
moose is manifestly big enough and strong enough to put the kibosh on
your station wagon, they don't _do_ it. But anyone with the slightest
bit of wilderness savvy knows to keep away from elk in the wrong
season.
Joerg
>If you mean the red deer of Europe, that's at most SIZ 13, not the
>SIZ 22 buggers you talk about below.
The "Deer" of the RuneQuest Official Monsters Book is in fact
the European Red Deer (which is bigger than SIZ 13, at least for
bucks). This is also very similar anatomically to the American Elk or
Wapiti or whatever. However, it is LOTS smaller.
>Since you're the biology expert, what environment did the Irish Elk
>live in?
To the best of my recollection, unaided by my tomes of
ancient lore, it lived in open grassland. Or whatever passes for open
grassland in Northern Europe.
>Did the lost tribes of Praxian Beast Riders die out when the Oakfed
>deforestation took their means of subsistance from them?
No doubt this made an initial impact. The gradually
deteriorating nature of the Wastes during Godtime probably also took
its toll. Note that in the First Age, the Rhino Riders nearly went
extinct. While the Rhinos narrowly avoided this fate, the Nose-Horn
folk might not have been so adaptable.
The Nose-Horn folk, by the way, were Synceros riders -- an
antelope-like animal with three horns. Two over the eyes and one down
near the nose which forked near the end. They were probably pygmies.
A friend of mine in California runs a stupendous scenario
involving the last of the Elephant tribe, in which the tribe's
pathetic remnants try to herd their "herd" (consisting of a single
pregnant cow) to safety over the wilds of Prax.
>English hasn't been heard in the United States for a century.
While I cheerfully accept such billingsgate from ostensible
English speakers, I balk at doing so from someone whose native tongue
is another Germanic language entirely.
> I'd have expected an associate relation between Issaries and
>Garzeen at first.
Yeah, this is possible. But the overlap between Issaries and
Garzeen (I believe) was so great that soon everyone who worshiped
Garzeen _also_ worshiped Issaries. From there, it was just a short
step to subculthood. The entire process may have taken only a
century. Presto! By the Second Age's Dawn, Garzeen is Issaries.
>What kind of transport do the western Issaries traders prefer
>(Fronela, Ralios, Maniria, Jrustela, Umathela)? As long as there are
>decent roads or rivers, no reason not to use say ox-carts or barges.
Mules have several advantages. First, they're stronger than
burros. Second, they're a lot cheaper to buy (and in upkeep) than
horses. They're faster than oxen. They're an all-around good pack
animal.
And if you're traveling in Western areas that have
prohibitions against certain class-members riding horses, well ...
Which is not to say that there aren't plenty of Issaries
merchants using oxcarts or barges. But the mule is still, I feel,
known, liked, and used even in the West. You're also safe if you are
visiting the Galanini (who might have objections to outsiders riding
horses), or the Doraddi (who have bad memories of horse-riders).
In Glorantha, there are various mythic encumbrances upon the
horse. On Earth, there are none, but mules are still thought to be
useful. On Glorantha, I feel they are even more so.
>And where in Glorantha do we find donkeys in the wild?
Perhaps nowhere. Maybe all the wild burros left in Glorantha
are feral. They're certainly a handy beast if you're a Western
cultist who doesn't allow his peasants to ride horses. I'm not sure
where native wild burros live on Earth. There are some wild asses in
the midEast, but I betcha they're not quite the same.
Ian Gorlick:
> The recent discussion about Hyaena prompted me to think about what
>their position is in Prax. The list of large carnivores is very
>short, and consists of Allosauri (huge!), cliff toads (restricted
>habitat?), Deinonychi (sight hunters, therefore daytime only) and
>very occasional tigers and Smilodons in the Zola Fel Valley, plus
>the hyaenas.
Note also that the Allosaurs and Deinonychi, IMO, are
stragglers from Shadows Dance or Balazar, about as common as jaguars
in the United States (where they _do_ sometimes show up, but not very
damn often). Tigers and Smilodons are definitely from the Rockwoods
and Zola Fel, and not a real competitor on the plains or Wastes.
In the Godtime there'd have been lions, too, but they're
gone. All that is left are humans, morocanth, and hyenas. There are
also chaos wolves in the northwestern part of the Wastes. And
probably a few regular wolves, too. If anyone accepts my theory that
there are coyotes in the Wastes, then you have them as well, but they
aren't going to pull down an adult of any herd animal except an
impala.
The hyenas may not be quite as dominant in Prax itself,
because of the competition from other carnivores, but in the Wastes,
they're top dog.
>Hyaenas must be a dominant carnivore, and the true hunter of the
>night on the plains.
I, too, champion this theory. I think that the Praxians
absolutely detest the damn things. I also think that almost every
Praxian clan is followed at a distance of a mile or two by a pack of
hyenas.
> I'd be interested to know if anyone has actually PLAYED this game
[Rocky & Bullwinkle, by TSR].
Yes.