Vampires in GURPS

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Bruce L Grubb

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Sep 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/20/96
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I have been wondering how have Vampires in GURPS Fantasy and GURPS Supers
changed given what is in the Compendium I?

J. Hunter Johnson

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Sep 25, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/25/96
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In article <bgrubb-ya0230800...@news.nmsu.edu>,

Bruce L Grubb <bgr...@acca.nmsu.edu> wrote:

> I have been wondering how have Vampires in GURPS Fantasy and GURPS Supers
> changed given what is in the Compendium I?

The Fantasy Vampire would only have to change the ST calculation to be
brought up to date with Compendium. Instead of having his ST doubled,
the Vampire would have, say, ST +4 (45 pts.) and another +6 of Natural
ST (39 pts), for 84 pts instead of the 50 for one level of Increased
ST. Racial cost (in this case) becomes 134. (GMs can vary where the
cutoff between "full" and "natural" ST is.)

The Supers Vampire Nightflick would be unchanged, I believe.

Hunter
-- /\
J. Hunter Johnson / \ jhun...@io.com, sjg-e...@io.com
GURPS Bibliographer / () \ http://www.io.com/~jhunterj/gurps/bib.html
& Errata Coordinator /______\ http://www.io.com/sjgames/errata/gurps/
"Exotic Dancer Barbie does not bump or grind by herself."

Earl A Kwallek

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Sep 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/26/96
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>> I have been wondering how have Vampires in GURPS Fantasy and GURPS Supers
>> changed given what is in the Compendium I?
>
>The Fantasy Vampire would only have to change the ST calculation to be
>brought up to date with Compendium. Instead of having his ST doubled,
>the Vampire would have, say, ST +4 (45 pts.) and another +6 of Natural
>ST (39 pts), for 84 pts instead of the 50 for one level of Increased
>ST. Racial cost (in this case) becomes 134. (GMs can vary where the
>cutoff between "full" and "natural" ST is.)
>
>The Supers Vampire Nightflick would be unchanged, I believe.
>

Is there any particular reason why you picked those numbers? or was it just a
case of random number picking for the sake of example? Just Curious.


Bruce L Grubb

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Sep 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/26/96
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In article <52ceq7$j...@pentagon.io.com>, jhun...@io.com (J. Hunter
Johnson) wrote:

> In article <bgrubb-ya0230800...@news.nmsu.edu>,
> Bruce L Grubb <bgr...@acca.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>

> > I have been wondering how have Vampires in GURPS Fantasy and GURPS Supers
> > changed given what is in the Compendium I?
>
> The Fantasy Vampire would only have to change the ST calculation to be
> brought up to date with Compendium. Instead of having his ST doubled,
> the Vampire would have, say, ST +4 (45 pts.) and another +6 of Natural
> ST (39 pts), for 84 pts instead of the 50 for one level of Increased
> ST. Racial cost (in this case) becomes 134. (GMs can vary where the
> cutoff between "full" and "natural" ST is.)
>
> The Supers Vampire Nightflick would be unchanged, I believe.

Since the Enhanced Strength rule is supposed to effect -all- characters
Nightflick would change though I cannot remember how his strength was set
up.

Bruce L Grubb

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Sep 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/27/96
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In article <52egml$f...@newsops.execpc.com>, wab...@execpc.com (Earl A
Kwallek) wrote:

> >> I have been wondering how have Vampires in GURPS Fantasy and GURPS Supers
> >> changed given what is in the Compendium I?
> >
> >The Fantasy Vampire would only have to change the ST calculation to be
> >brought up to date with Compendium. Instead of having his ST doubled,
> >the Vampire would have, say, ST +4 (45 pts.) and another +6 of Natural
> >ST (39 pts), for 84 pts instead of the 50 for one level of Increased
> >ST. Racial cost (in this case) becomes 134. (GMs can vary where the
> >cutoff between "full" and "natural" ST is.)
> >
> >The Supers Vampire Nightflick would be unchanged, I believe.
> >
>

> Is there any particular reason why you picked those numbers? or was it
> just a case of random number picking for the sake of example? Just Curious.

Looks like a case of random number picking for the sake of example.

Though after examining Compendium I again I don't think that it would work.
Compendium I recomends that Natural ST be limited to -natural- races while
Superhumans must buy their ST at full cost.

So it would depend one whether the GM rules that Vampires were a Race for
ST calculations or type of Superhuman.

I would wonder if conseptwise Nightflick and the Fantasy Vampire might need
to redone in the light of Vampiric Immortality.

Bruce L Grubb

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Sep 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/28/96
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In article <52ceq7$j...@pentagon.io.com>, jhun...@io.com (J. Hunter
Johnson) wrote:

> In article <bgrubb-ya0230800...@news.nmsu.edu>,


> Bruce L Grubb <bgr...@acca.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
> > I have been wondering how have Vampires in GURPS Fantasy and GURPS Supers
> > changed given what is in the Compendium I?
>
> The Fantasy Vampire would only have to change the ST calculation to be
> brought up to date with Compendium. Instead of having his ST doubled,
> the Vampire would have, say, ST +4 (45 pts.) and another +6 of Natural
> ST (39 pts), for 84 pts instead of the 50 for one level of Increased
> ST. Racial cost (in this case) becomes 134. (GMs can vary where the
> cutoff between "full" and "natural" ST is.)

I finally sat down with the -description- of the Fantasy Vampire
<http://www.io.com/~arcangel/Roleplayers-Web-Pages/Roleplayer21/CyberVamps.h
tml> and started figuring out the point totals working from the Compendium
I.

What I have come up with so far:

Attributes: ST +10 (110) HT +5 (60)

Advantages:
Bite (30) [replaces Steal Health [1500] magical knack (30)]

Magical Knacks: Skill 15, No cost (187) [as per CI 38]
Body of Air [800] RFC 4 levels (29)
Charm [1000] RFC 6 level (44)
Control Mammal [1200] RFC 5 levels (48)
Shapeshifting [1500] RFC 6 levels (66)
RFC = Reduced Fatigue Cost
Note: I used Reduced Fatigue Cost because it is far cheaper than self power.
4 levels of self power would cost 80 CPs.

The Invulnerablity given is basically -

Vampiric Invulnerablity (105)
Vulnerablities:
Holy water [rare] 3 levels (-15) [does 2d6 of damage]
Sunlight [common] 1 level (-15) [otherwise sunlight only -hurts-]
Wood & plants [common] 1 level (-15)

The HT lost is basicly the Draining (-10)
Dread: presented Holy Symbol, 3 hexes [common] (-26)
Unhealing (-20)
Weakness: Sunlight [Very common] 1d per min (-60) [CI 106]

As it stands redoing the Fantasy Vampire in 'normal' Compendium I terms
costs 431 CPs since I have not figured out the value of disadvantages like
"No HT reserve".

Any idea or comments. Like why this version of the Fantasy Vampire has
gone so haywire?

Earl A Kwallek

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Sep 30, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/30/96
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In article <bgrubb-ya0231800...@news.nmsu.edu>,
bgr...@acca.nmsu.edu says...

No HT Reserve is the "Unliving" disad from compendium I. I'm not sure if that
is the actual name of the disad, but trust me it's in there (under either
racial or supernatural disads)

Personally I never liked the idea of the fantasy vampire costing a MERE 100
pts. Especially since it was never clearly stated whether the old "Enhanced ST"
advantage (50 pts for x2 ST), affected your Fatigue or not. In the example in
Fantasy Folk, first edition it certainly implied that it did.
As a result, when I (stupidly) allowed someone to play one, he built a mage
vampire, and started building POWERSTONES as fast as he could. Since said spell
cost (IMSMC) 20 pts, he could cast it once every 2 hours or so in a normal mana
zone. I don't remember the exact costs, but by the end of one week in the
wilderness, he had created a 20 pt powerstone and two 10 pointers. Of course
this player also had a staff (w the Staff Spell) of exactly 6' 1" with
powerstones on each end. Since anything the wizard touches with the staff is
considered touched by him, he could draw on either stone. Also since they were
"More than 6' apart", they would NOT interfere with the other recharging.

Can we say MUNCHKIN, boys and girls? See, I knew you could.....

J. Hunter Johnson

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Sep 30, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/30/96
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In article <bgrubb-ya0231800...@news.nmsu.edu>,

Bruce L Grubb <bgr...@acca.nmsu.edu> wrote:
> In article <52egml$f...@newsops.execpc.com>, wab...@execpc.com (Earl A
> Kwallek) wrote:

>>> The Fantasy Vampire would only have to change the ST calculation
>>> to be brought up to date with Compendium. Instead of having his
>>> ST doubled, the Vampire would have, say, ST +4 (45 pts.) and
>>> another +6 of Natural ST (39 pts), for 84 pts instead of the 50
>>> for one level of Increased ST. Racial cost (in this case) becomes
>>> 134. (GMs can vary where the cutoff between "full" and "natural"
>>> ST is.)

>> Is there any particular reason why you picked those numbers? or was


>> it just a case of random number picking for the sake of example?
>> Just Curious.

> Looks like a case of random number picking for the sake of example.

Yep.

> Though after examining Compendium I again I don't think that it
> would work. Compendium I recomends that Natural ST be limited to
> -natural- races while Superhumans must buy their ST at full cost.

Yes, CI9: "Superhumans ... usually are capable of incredicle feats,
and must buy ST ast full cost...." (NB: usually).

But, CI8: "These smaller limitations [that make up Natural] may be
mixed and matched -- or ignored altogether -- for truly supernatural
beings or species."

So I think, even under Compendium's recommendations, there's no
problem.

> So it would depend one whether the GM rules that Vampires were a
> Race for ST calculations or type of Superhuman.

Type supernatural.

Dr Kromm

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Sep 30, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/30/96
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First off, I should point out that GURPS FANTASY lists the fantasy
vampire as being worth 125 points -- see p. F123. This vampire is
pretty much in agreement with the rules presented in COMPENDIUM I;
a quick look reveals no real discrepancies (although there are a
few interpretation issues).

Bruce L Grubb (bgr...@acca.nmsu.edu) wrote:
> Bite (30) [replaces Steal Health [1500] magical knack (30)]

No -- it replaces the Steal HT *racially-innate magical spell.*
(See p. CI179.) However, the vampire in FANTASY just has the spell,
not Bite.



> Magical Knacks: Skill 15, No cost (187) [as per CI 38]

No. Just give them racial Magery 1 and give them their spells
as if they were racially innate. See GURPS BLOOD TYPES for some
examples. Note that as per p. F123, fantasy vampires simply have
their spells at IQ+5 level (including the +1 for racial Magery);
it does not claim that the spells are cast at 0 cost!

> The Invulnerablity given is basically - Vampiric Invulnerablity (105)

No. As per p. F123, this is Invulnerability to Non-Wooden
Weapons -- the version in COMPENDIUM I is a far more powerful
class of invulnerability intended for god-like Anne Rice/VtM-
style leeches.

> I have not figured out the value of disadvantages like
> "No HT reserve"

It's called "Unliving," is worth -50 points and can be found
on p. CI100.

> Any idea or comments. Like why this version of the Fantasy Vampire has
> gone so haywire?

Mainly because you represented vampire magic using Knacks with
SUPERS-style enhancements, laboring under the assumption that they
had to have 0 fatigue cost, rather than simply treating them as
ordinary racially-innate spells known at level 15.
-- Kromm

--
Sean M. Punch o E-mail: o 4122 rue Rivard
(a.k.a. Dr Kromm) | At SJG: kr...@io.com | Montreal, Quebec
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=o Local POP: kr...@cam.org o Canada H2L 4H9
GURPS Line Editor | WWW: | Home: (514) 288-9600
and Net Guru o http://www.io.com/~kromm o Work: (514) 288-9615

Bruce L Grubb

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Sep 30, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/30/96
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In article <52p4cp$b...@newsops.execpc.com>, wab...@execpc.com (Earl A
Kwallek) wrote:

[Description snipped]

> No HT Reserve is the "Unliving" disad from compendium I. I'm not sure if
> that is the actual name of the disad, but trust me it's in there (under
> either racial or supernatural disads)

It is Unliving and it is under supernatural disads. Thanks.



> Personally I never liked the idea of the fantasy vampire costing a MERE 100
> pts. Especially since it was never clearly stated whether the old "Enhanced
> ST" advantage (50 pts for x2 ST), affected your Fatigue or not. In the
> example in Fantasy Folk, first edition it certainly implied that it did.
> As a result, when I (stupidly) allowed someone to play one, he built a
> mage vampire, and started building POWERSTONES as fast as he could. Since
> said spell cost (IMSMC) 20 pts, he could cast it once every 2 hours or so
> in a normal mana zone. I don't remember the exact costs, but by the end of
> one week in the wilderness, he had created a 20 pt powerstone and two 10
> pointers.

Sounds like the player Fast-Talked you into this :). Accually the
PowerStone spell directly states that there is a about 1 in 4 chance for ST
20 Powerstone to be destroyed before it gets to that ST level and ordinary
failures will produce flaws in the Powerstone.

Finding the chance a Powerstone would be destroyed or has flaws is easy
though math intensive. Simply take the chance of success and take to the
power of the ST. This is the chance to produce a 'flawless' Powerstone

Take your Munchkin Vampire above. I am assuming Skill 15 or better
Chance of not getting a 16, 17 or 18 is .954.
Chance of not getting a 17 or 18 is .981.
Chance of not getting an 18 (always critical failure) is .995 (1 - .005)

For Skill 15 (17 and 18 critical failures):
.954^40 = .152 ~ 7< on 3d6 of creating unflawed powerstones totaling ST 40
.954^20 = .389 ~ 9< on 3d6 of creating an unflawed ST 20 stone
.954^10 = .624 ~ 11< on 3d6 of creating an unflawed ST 10 stone

.981^40 = .464 ~ 9/10< on 3d6 of creating powerstones totaling ST 40
.981^20 = .681 ~ 11< on 3d6 of creating a ST 20 stone
.981^10 = .825 ~ 13< on 3d6 of creating a ST 10 stone


For Skill 16+ (18 critical failure):
.981^40 = .464 ~ 9/10 on 3d6 of creating unflawed powerstones totaling ST
40 .981^20 = .681 ~ 11< on 3d6 of creating an unflawed ST 20 stone
.981^10 = .825 ~ 13< on 3d6 of creating an unflawed ST 10 stone

.995^40 = .818 ~ 13< on 3d6 of creating powerstones totaling ST 40
.995^20 = .905 ~ 14< on 3d6 of creating a ST 20 stone
.995^10 = .951 ~ 15< on 3d6 of creating a ST 10 stone

Note since the chances overlap here is the way I would handle it:

Roll to see if all three stones are unflawed (totaling ST 40)
If it fails you know that at least one stone is flawed or was destroyed.

Figure the chance of flaw vs destroyed for each stone and roll
(I have done the math for you)

Skill 15
ST 20: .389/.681 = .623 ~ 11> that the stone was not destroyed but is flawed.
ST 10: 12> that the stone was not destroyed but is flawed

Skill 16+
ST 20:.681/.905 = .752 ~ 12> that the stone was not destroyed but is flawed.
ST 10: 13> that the stone was not destroyed but is flawed.

The Number of Flaws is left up to the GM

This is a Q&D way of stopping Powerstone creation abuse.

Bruce L Grubb

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Sep 30, 1996, 3:00:00 AM9/30/96
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In article <52ovh4$7...@nntp-1.io.com>, kr...@io.com (Dr Kromm) wrote:

> First off, I should point out that GURPS FANTASY lists the fantasy
> vampire as being worth 125 points -- see p. F123. This vampire is
> pretty much in agreement with the rules presented in COMPENDIUM I;
> a quick look reveals no real discrepancies (although there are a
> few interpretation issues).

More than a few IMHO. Though it is clear some more errata for GURPS
Fantasy first edition is needed because it lists the Fantasy Vampire at 100
points not 125.

> Bruce L Grubb (bgr...@acca.nmsu.edu) wrote:

You forgot this:

I finally sat down with the -description- of the Fantasy Vampire
<http://www.io.com/~arcangel/Roleplayers-Web-Pages/Roleplayer21/CyberVamps.h
tml> and started figuring out the point totals working from the Compendium
I.

Which I have also might add that I have cross checked with the Fantasy
-first- Edition errata at
<http://www.io.com/sjgames/errata/gurps/fantasy/fantasy_1.html>

I am providing these references so that everyone can go and see for
themselves exactly -which- Vampire I am using.

> > Bite (30) [replaces Steal Health [1500] magical knack (30)]
>
> No -- it replaces the Steal HT *racially-innate magical spell.*
> (See p. CI179.) However, the vampire in FANTASY just has the spell,
> not Bite.

This was to show -another reason why- I was using the magical abilities as
Knacks. I should have been more clear on this. Note this would also
explain why 30 points was chosen as the cost of the Bite advantage; it is
what Steal HT costs as a knack as per CI 38.

> > Magical Knacks: Skill 15, No cost (187) [as per CI 38]
>
> No. Just give them racial Magery 1 and give them their spells
> as if they were racially innate. See GURPS BLOOD TYPES for some
> examples. Note that as per p. F123, fantasy vampires simply have
> their spells at IQ+5 level (including the +1 for racial Magery);
> it does not claim that the spells are cast at 0 cost!

"Inherent Magic (Knacks)
If a magic spell is inherrent rather than learned, then each spell is
treated as a separate advantage purchased when the charater is created" (CI
38)

"The standard fantasy vampire (GURPS Fantasy, p. 123) is presented below.
... Advantages: ... They also have powerful magics (see below) which they
can use at no energy cost! ... "These spells may not be studied or
improved; they are inherent to the vampire."
<http://www.io.com/~arcangel/Roleplayers-Web-Pages/Roleplayer21/CyberVamps.h
tml>

The magic spells are inherrent to the vampire ergo they are Inherent Magic
(Knacks) advantages.

> > The Invulnerablity given is basically - Vampiric Invulnerablity (105)
>
> No. As per p. F123, this is Invulnerability to Non-Wooden
> Weapons -- the version in COMPENDIUM I is a far more powerful
> class of invulnerability intended for god-like Anne Rice/VtM-
> style leeches.

"Metal weapons pass through them without effect, but they take full
damage from any weapon made of wood or other plant material. Magical
attacks (and high-tech ray guns) affect them as normal."
<http://www.io.com/~arcangel/Roleplayers-Web-Pages/Roleplayer21/CyberVamps.h

tml>

Sounds like Vampiric Invulnerablity with some Vulnerablities to me. Since
the Fantasy Vampire is Unliving the below HT features of this advantage
never come into play which could further reduce its cost.

I sould note that I am reading 'without effect' as meaning no knockback (+20%)
Which makes Invulnerability to Non-Wooden Weapons as per CI 59 worth 90 pt
if metal weapons are rare or as is more likely 120 pts if they are
occasional.

Please note that the Invulnerability to Non-Wooden Weapons solution also
has a major flaw; it does not allow one to even hurt the Vampire with
non-wood plant material.
For example a bale of hay, a bamboo staff, and a rose garden -should- all
have a chance of hurting a Vampire as per the description above but since
none of them are made of wood the Vampire is unharmed.

So why not get Vampiric Invulnerablity with the Vulnerablities Holy water
[rare] 3 levels, Sunlight [common] 1 level, and Wood & plants [common] 1
level for about 105 pts? At least with Vampiric Invulnerablity you can
-hurt- a Vampire with your metal sword to the point that a prick with a
toothpick would destroy it.

> > I have not figured out the value of disadvantages like
> > "No HT reserve"
>
> It's called "Unliving," is worth -50 points and can be found
> on p. CI100.

Thanks. Leaves me with the crossing water and related stuff to figure out.

> > Any idea or comments. Like why this version of the Fantasy Vampire has
> > gone so haywire?
>
> Mainly because you represented vampire magic using Knacks with
> SUPERS-style enhancements, laboring under the assumption that they
> had to have 0 fatigue cost, rather than simply treating them as
> ordinary racially-innate spells known at level 15.

Because that is how Inharent Magic (Knacks) now works (CI 36) and that is
how the Fantsy vampire is described in
<http://www.io.com/~arcangel/Roleplayers-Web-Pages/Roleplayer21/CyberVamps.h

tml>

Dr Kromm

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Oct 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/1/96
to

On Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:28:15 -0700, bgr...@acca.nmsu.edu (Bruce L Grubb)
wrote:

> I finally sat down with the -description- of the Fantasy Vampire
> <http://www.io.com/~arcangel/Roleplayers-Web-Pages/Roleplayer21/CyberVamps.h
> tml> and started figuring out the point totals working from the Compendium
> I.

Yeah, but that version is numerous rules revisions out of date. I'm
talking in terms of BLOOD TYPES, COMPENDIUM I, FANTASY (Second Edition,
third printing) and FANTASY FOLK (Second Edition).

> Which I have also might add that I have cross checked with the Fantasy
> -first- Edition errata at
> <http://www.io.com/sjgames/errata/gurps/fantasy/fantasy_1.html>

Also hopelessly out of date.

> This was to show -another reason why- I was using the magical abilities as
> Knacks. I should have been more clear on this.

...


> The magic spells are inherrent to the vampire ergo they are Inherent Magic
> (Knacks) advantages.

Nope. Check out FANTASY FOLK, p. 13, for a complete discussion of
the differences. Note that racially-innate spells are clearly recommended
there. Now look at BLOOD TYPES, p. 72, for further confirmation. Finally,
look at p. CI179. It's pretty clear to me that Knacks are *not* the way
to go, here. The evidence against them is just too overwhelming.

> For example a bale of hay, a bamboo staff, and a rose garden -should- all
> have a chance of hurting a Vampire as per the description above but since
> none of them are made of wood the Vampire is unharmed.

I think that this is just a semantic issue. BLOOD TYPES makes it
quite clear that thorns, etc., as well as wood can also harm a vampire who
is invulnerable to "non-wooden weapons."

> Thanks. Leaves me with the crossing water and related stuff to figure out.

This is largely covered on p. BT53.

> Because that is how Inharent Magic (Knacks) now works (CI 36)

Yes, but vampires have racially-innate spells, not inherent magic.
This is an important distinction.

Lord Jamie FitzGeorge

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Oct 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/1/96
to Dr Kromm

On 30 Sep 1996, Dr Kromm wrote:

> First off, I should point out that GURPS FANTASY lists the fantasy
> vampire as being worth 125 points -- see p. F123. This vampire is
> pretty much in agreement with the rules presented in COMPENDIUM I;
> a quick look reveals no real discrepancies (although there are a
> few interpretation issues).

His misunderstanding is that he was working from a copy of the Fantasy,
1st ed. rules as reprinted in Roleplayer 21.

Just a Thought,
Jim Trigg (RL) / Jamie FitzGeorge (SCA) / Nolgon Obernson (Cidri/Yrth)


Bruce L Grubb

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Oct 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/1/96
to

In article <52qftn$l...@nntp-1.io.com>, kr...@io.com (Dr Kromm) wrote:

> On Mon, 30 Sep 1996 20:28:15 -0700, bgr...@acca.nmsu.edu (Bruce L Grubb)
> wrote:
> > I finally sat down with the -description- of the Fantasy Vampire
> > <http://www.io.com/~arcangel/Roleplayers-Web-Pages/Roleplayer21/CyberVamps.h
> > tml> and started figuring out the point totals working from the Compendium
> > I.
>
> Yeah, but that version is numerous rules revisions out of date. I'm
> talking in terms of BLOOD TYPES, COMPENDIUM I, FANTASY (Second Edition,
> third printing) and FANTASY FOLK (Second Edition)

Well I did state -which- Vampire I was converting with COMPENDIUM I. I
knew many changes had been made. How is the present Fantasy Vampire's ST
handled? In other words what is the breakdown of 'Enhanced' vs 'Natural'
ST?

> > Which I have also might add that I have cross checked with the Fantasy
> > -first- Edition errata at
> > <http://www.io.com/sjgames/errata/gurps/fantasy/fantasy_1.html>
>
> Also hopelessly out of date.

Looks like the errata sheets for Fantasy are in bad need of a major update.

> > This was to show -another reason why- I was using the magical abilities as
> > Knacks. I should have been more clear on this.
> ...
> > The magic spells are inherrent to the vampire ergo they are Inherent Magic
> > (Knacks) advantages.
>
> Nope. Check out FANTASY FOLK, p. 13, for a complete discussion of
> the differences. Note that racially-innate spells are clearly recommended
> there. Now look at BLOOD TYPES, p. 72, for further confirmation. Finally,
> look at p. CI179. It's pretty clear to me that Knacks are *not* the way
> to go, here. The evidence against them is just too overwhelming.

Ah I see. Don't have FANTASY FOLK or BLOOD TYPES though so I am gropping
around in the dark so to speek.

I am curious as happens when any race with racially-innate spells strolls
into a low mana area. I am assuming that Low mana's -5 does not effect
personnal skill (for having access to the spell) but wouldn't it play havoc
with the other aspects of the spell like cost and casting time?

Also wouldn't racially-innate spells be super vulnerable to spells like
Drunkenness or Mindlessness which could reduce their skill levels to less
than 12 which would turn them off? I am assuming that racially-innate
spells are immune to the Forgetfullness and Permanent Forgetfullness
spells.

It was my understanding that the base skill of the Vampire's spells are
-always- 15. You don't get that with racially-innate spells since they are
dependent on the character's IQ. Dumb and really young Vampires are
impossible under this set up.

> > Thanks. Leaves me with the crossing water and related stuff to figure out.
>
> This is largely covered on p. BT53.

Don't have that book. How are they handled? Mental disadvantages?



> > Because that is how Inharent Magic (Knacks) now works (CI 36)
>
> Yes, but vampires have racially-innate spells, not inherent magic.
> This is an important distinction.

It is an important distinction. I have two main problems with
racially-innate spells for the Vampire.

1) Minor point quible

Gives the Fantasy Vampire the magical equivalaent of the Bite advantage via
Steal Health for 16 pts less.

2) Major problem in low and normal mana areas

ALL Races with racially-innate spells must have racial Magery to use these
spells in low and normal mana areas (CI 179)

As if Vampires weren't powerful enough, they now are also mages.

Earl A Kwallek

unread,
Oct 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/1/96
to
>In article <52p4cp$b...@newsops.execpc.com>, wab...@execpc.com (Earl A
>Kwallek) wrote:
>
>Sounds like the player Fast-Talked you into this :). Accually the
>PowerStone spell directly states that there is a about 1 in 4 chance for ST
>20 Powerstone to be destroyed before it gets to that ST level and ordinary
>failures will produce flaws in the Powerstone.

Probably did at that, the boy is a local politician these days.....

>
>Finding the chance a Powerstone would be destroyed or has flaws is easy
>though math intensive. Simply take the chance of success and take to the
>power of the ST. This is the chance to produce a 'flawless' Powerstone
>

[Lots of number-crunching snipped]


I had him roll against his 15 skill for EACH casting of the spell, as one
normally would. Not only did the lucky SOB not get the "destroyed" result that
one would expect he never even got a quirk (in the 20 pointer - he got 1 in the
ten pointer). Then again this player had ridiculous super luck (Note: the
PLAYER not the character!).
In any event, such a character as a 20 ST Mage should be flat out outlawed in
anything less than a 200+ pt campaign, take my word for it!

Earl A Kwallek

unread,
Oct 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/1/96
to
>I am curious as happens when any race with racially-innate spells strolls
>into a low mana area. I am assuming that Low mana's -5 does not effect
>personnal skill (for having access to the spell) but wouldn't it play havoc
>with the other aspects of the spell like cost and casting time?

An interesting question, I would have assumed that Low Mana DOES affect
racial-innate spells at the normal -5, but the "Rule of 12" would (in this
case) cause said spells to be cast at effective skill of 12.

>
>Also wouldn't racially-innate spells be super vulnerable to spells like
>Drunkenness or Mindlessness which could reduce their skill levels to less
>than 12 which would turn them off? I am assuming that racially-innate
>spells are immune to the Forgetfullness and Permanent Forgetfullness
>spells.

Darn Good Question....

>It was my understanding that the base skill of the Vampire's spells are
>-always- 15. You don't get that with racially-innate spells since they are
>dependent on the character's IQ. Dumb and really young Vampires are
>impossible under this set up.

Again, doesn't the "Rule of 12" cover this?


>It is an important distinction. I have two main problems with
>racially-innate spells for the Vampire.
>
>1) Minor point quible
>
>Gives the Fantasy Vampire the magical equivalaent of the Bite advantage via
>Steal Health for 16 pts less.
>
>2) Major problem in low and normal mana areas
>
>ALL Races with racially-innate spells must have racial Magery to use these
>spells in low and normal mana areas (CI 179)
>
>As if Vampires weren't powerful enough, they now are also mages.

And I've already posted on the problems with Vampire/Mages. IMHO, vampiric
abilities should be bought as Knacks just because:

a) the point costs are higher and it keeps Vampires in the cinematic level they
belong at (NEVER allow a vampire in a 100-150 pt game)

b) It seems to more acurately simulate vampire legends, where these abilities
are usually used instantly (or nearly so) at no noticeable fatigue costs.


Bruce L Grubb

unread,
Oct 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/1/96
to

In article <52rqq8$3...@newsops.execpc.com>, wab...@execpc.com (Earl A
Kwallek) wrote:

> In article <bgrubb-ya0231800...@news.nmsu.edu>,
> bgr...@acca.nmsu.edu says...
> >
> >I am curious as happens when any race with racially-innate spells strolls
> >into a low mana area. I am assuming that Low mana's -5 does not effect
> >personnal skill (for having access to the spell) but wouldn't it play havoc
> >with the other aspects of the spell like cost and casting time?
>
> An interesting question, I would have assumed that Low Mana DOES affect
> racial-innate spells at the normal -5, but the "Rule of 12" would (in this
> case) cause said spells to be cast at effective skill of 12.

But the "Rule of 12" appears to only apply to -advantages- (CI 174). Since
Racially-Innate spells require Magery in normal or low mana area just as
'normal' spells do I would assume that the "Rule of 12" does -not- apply to
them.

Even with the "Rule of 12" the race still have problems with Fatigue costs.

> >Also wouldn't racially-innate spells be super vulnerable to spells like
> >Drunkenness or Mindlessness which could reduce their skill levels to less
> >than 12 which would turn them off? I am assuming that racially-innate
> >spells are immune to the Forgetfullness and Permanent Forgetfullness
> >spells.
>
> Darn Good Question....

CI 179 says "If an individual has his IQ reduced to the point where his
skill would fall below 12, the spell will not work." Well Drunkenness and
Mindlessness directly effect IQ so as written it is perfectly reasonable to
assume these spells would shut down racially-innate spells.



> >It was my understanding that the base skill of the Vampire's spells are
> >-always- 15. You don't get that with racially-innate spells since they are
> >dependent on the character's IQ. Dumb and really young Vampires are
> >impossible under this set up.
>
> Again, doesn't the "Rule of 12" cover this?

Not really: "For races with an average attribute of 12 or more, always use
the individual's accual attribute, even if it is -less- than 12." (CI 174)
Since the Vampire's average attribute is 15 when assuming an ave human 10
IQ the "Rule of 12" does not apply to them as the spells will not work at a
IQ + magery baced skill below 12 (CI 179)

> >It is an important distinction. I have two main problems with
> >racially-innate spells for the Vampire.
> >
> >1) Minor point quible
> >
> >Gives the Fantasy Vampire the magical equivalaent of the Bite advantage via
> >Steal Health for 16 pts less.
> >
> >2) Major problem in low and normal mana areas
> >
> >ALL Races with racially-innate spells must have racial Magery to use these
> >spells in low and normal mana areas (CI 179)
> >
> >As if Vampires weren't powerful enough, they now are also mages.
>
> And I've already posted on the problems with Vampire/Mages. IMHO, vampiric
> abilities should be bought as Knacks just because:
>
> a) the point costs are higher and it keeps Vampires in the cinematic level
> they belong at (NEVER allow a vampire in a 100-150 pt game)

I agree. I would go so far as saying Vampires are too powerful for games
in the 200-250 pt range. One way to shut down Vampire/Mage problems is to
have the Vampire's extra ST have No Fatigue Bonus for spells (-20%). (CI 8)



> b) It seems to more acurately simulate vampire legends, where these abilities
> are usually used instantly (or nearly so) at no noticeable fatigue costs.

Well the original Fantasy Vampire's abilities did not cost fatigue.

KyRaden

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Oct 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/1/96
to

Hate to burst your bubble, but...

When Enchanting, a roll of 16 is always a failure, and a 17 or 18 is a
critical failure, regardless of skill level. (reference - Magic, Second
Edition, p18 under the heading 'Success Rolls When Creating Magic Items'.)
I believe it's always been that way. So that 10 pointer is destroyed, and
they're could be a problem with the 20's.

Kyraden

KyR...@aol.com
Portland, OR
B)

Remember:
That last night on the Titanic
there were people who skipped desert...

Bruce L Grubb

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Oct 1, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/1/96
to

In article <52rppu$3...@newsops.execpc.com>, wab...@execpc.com (Earl A
Kwallek) wrote:

> >In article <52p4cp$b...@newsops.execpc.com>, wab...@execpc.com (Earl A


> >Kwallek) wrote:
> >
> >Sounds like the player Fast-Talked you into this :). Accually the
> >PowerStone spell directly states that there is a about 1 in 4 chance for ST
> >20 Powerstone to be destroyed before it gets to that ST level and ordinary
> >failures will produce flaws in the Powerstone.
>
> Probably did at that, the boy is a local politician these days.....
>
> >
> >Finding the chance a Powerstone would be destroyed or has flaws is easy
> >though math intensive. Simply take the chance of success and take to the
> >power of the ST. This is the chance to produce a 'flawless' Powerstone
> >
> [Lots of number-crunching snipped]
>
> I had him roll against his 15 skill for EACH casting of the spell, as one
> normally would. Not only did the lucky SOB not get the "destroyed" result
that
> one would expect he never even got a quirk (in the 20 pointer - he got 1 in
> the ten pointer). Then again this player had ridiculous super luck
> (Note: the PLAYER not the character!).
> In any event, such a character as a 20 ST Mage should be flat out
> outlawed in anything less than a 200+ pt campaign, take my word for it!

Accually the problem has already been corrected with two now standard rules:

1) The new standard cost of ST.

A ST +10 is 110 points, 60 pt more than the old method.
So a old style Fantasy Vampire is now 160 pts before any other modifications.

2) Split ST.

Use the No spell Fatigue Bonus limitation (-20%) on additional ST.
ST 0/+10 is now 88 pts, 38 pts more than the old method.
This makes the Fantasy Vampire worth 138 pts -and- he cannot use his additional
ST for any spells.

Archangel Beth

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Oct 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/2/96
to

Earl A Kwallek wrote:
> In article <bgrubb-ya0231800...@news.nmsu.edu>,
> bgr...@acca.nmsu.edu says...
[...]

>And I've already posted on the problems with Vampire/Mages. IMHO,
>vampiric abilities should be bought as Knacks just because:
>
>a) the point costs are higher and it keeps Vampires in the cinematic
>level they belong at (NEVER allow a vampire in a 100-150 pt game)

What, *never*? I crafted an amusing one for a game once -- she
didn't seem too abusive...
http://www.io.com/~arcangel/net.character.book/Fantasy/Vampire.html

Mind you, having Pacifism: Self-Defense Only will probably do
a lot to keep a vampire under control...


--emc...@nh.ultranet.com // arca...@io.com // emc...@jade.mv.net
GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/

Bill Seurer

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Oct 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/2/96
to

In article <52rppu$3...@newsops.execpc.com>, wab...@execpc.com (Earl A Kwallek) writes:
|> I had him roll against his 15 skill for EACH casting of the spell, as one
|> normally would. Not only did the lucky SOB not get the "destroyed" result that
|> one would expect he never even got a quirk (in the 20 pointer - he got 1 in the
|> ten pointer). Then again this player had ridiculous super luck (Note: the
|> PLAYER not the character!).
|> In any event, such a character as a 20 ST Mage should be flat out outlawed in
|> anything less than a 200+ pt campaign, take my word for it!

Once my players needed to empty a place of water and one of them figured
out he could cast small Shape Waters at no cost. He figured it would take
300 and some odd castings. Just to annoy me (I think) they decided as a
group to try it.

So I had them make the rolls. ALL of them. They rolled in shifts and
kept track of successes and failures. And they made every single
one! Not a single roll was over 15, and quite a few were 3's, 4's and
5's.

When they were done they discussed what the value of a powerstone
enchanted via an equivalent streak of rolls would be worth (ignoring
trying to find a base gem big enough).
--

- Bill Seurer ID Tools and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
Business: BillS...@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillS...@aol.com
WWW: http://members.aol.com/BillSeurer

Earl A Kwallek

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Oct 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/2/96
to
>Accually the problem has already been corrected with two now standard rules:
>
>1) The new standard cost of ST.
>
>A ST +10 is 110 points, 60 pt more than the old method.
>So a old style Fantasy Vampire is now 160 pts before any other modifications.
>
>2) Split ST.
>
>Use the No spell Fatigue Bonus limitation (-20%) on additional ST.
>ST 0/+10 is now 88 pts, 38 pts more than the old method.
>This makes the Fantasy Vampire worth 138 pts -and- he cannot use his
additional
>ST for any spells.

Yep. and a bigger fix was never needed.
Whoever came up with the 50 pts for x2 ST idea was hopefully taken out and
shot! A bigger point crock was never seen.

Incidentally, on a similar note, has anyone come up with a way of keeping
Eidetic Memory under control? In a 200 pt cinematic campaign (Space) that I was
going to run, one of the characters built a scientist/engineer with IQ 16 and
EM2, the result was that for 1 pt she could have a 14- (96%) in any
science/engineering type skill (M/H). It was really rather sick....

Right now my quick fix for this kind of stuff, is to do character building in
two steps:

First build a 100 pt character - then add 100 pts of "Experience" to the
character. It has the twin advantages of avoiding stat inflation (a severe
problem in most cinematic games I've seen) and bypassing the 2xage limit on
skills that isn't really appropiate for cinematic games anyways.

Any other suggestions?


Earl A Kwallek

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Oct 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/2/96
to

In article <52sh4k$l...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, kyr...@aol.com says...

>
>Hate to burst your bubble, but...
>
>When Enchanting, a roll of 16 is always a failure, and a 17 or 18 is a
>critical failure, regardless of skill level. (reference - Magic, Second
>Edition, p18 under the heading 'Success Rolls When Creating Magic Items'.)
>I believe it's always been that way. So that 10 pointer is destroyed, and
>they're could be a problem with the 20's.
>

A fact I am well aware of.

However, my complaint is not with the rules for making powerstones. My
complaint is with the concept of a 20 ST mage character at a MERE 100 or so
points, as was allowed with the OLD Fantasy/FF 1 Vampire template.

I no longer have a copy of the character so I can't say exactly, but it
seemed to be a 125 pt character (sounds right, that was my starting pt level at
that time) with the standard -45 in Disads/Quirks.

Hmm, I can't seeem to figure out how he could have had vampire, a reasonable
IQ, and magery 2+ (for the Enchantment spells) at that point level either.
Maybe he had a single disad for MORE than 40 pts? I really couldn't say as this
was MANY years ago - back before FANTASY was split into two books!


Bruce L Grubb

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Oct 2, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/2/96
to

In article <Pine.BSI.3.95.961001...@xanadu.io.com>, Lord
Jamie FitzGeorge <myrd...@io.com> wrote:

> On 30 Sep 1996, Dr Kromm wrote:
>
> > First off, I should point out that GURPS FANTASY lists the fantasy
> > vampire as being worth 125 points -- see p. F123. This vampire is
> > pretty much in agreement with the rules presented in COMPENDIUM I;
> > a quick look reveals no real discrepancies (although there are a
> > few interpretation issues).
>
> His misunderstanding is that he was working from a copy of the Fantasy,
> 1st ed. rules as reprinted in Roleplayer 21.

Misunderstanding? Hardly, I clearly stated at the top of my article
EXACTLY what Vampire description I was using and exactly where the
information I was using could be found:

"I finally sat down with the -description- of the Fantasy Vampire
<http://www.io.com/~arcangel/Roleplayers-Web-Pages/Roleplayer21/CyberVamps.h
tml> and started figuring out the point totals working from the Compendium
I."

I might add that -before- I posted the article I checked the Fantasy
-first- Edition errata at
<http://www.io.com/sjgames/errata/gurps/fantasy/fantasy_1.html> to see if
and how the Fantacy Vampire had changed.

Since the posting of the article I have further cross checked with the New
errata sheet at <http://www.io.com/sjgames/errata/gurps/new.html> which was
last updated Sept 20, 1996. No new erratas for either Fantasy first
edition or second edition have been made since July 8, 1996.

As far as the GURPS errata sheets are concerned the 100 pt Fantasy Vampire
description I used from Roleplayer 21 was and is still current.

Vincent

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Oct 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/3/96
to

In article <52tbhd$9...@newsops.execpc.com>, wab...@execpc.com (Earl A
Kwallek) sent electrons in the form of:

> Incidentally, on a similar note, has anyone come up with a way of keeping
> Eidetic Memory under control? In a 200 pt cinematic campaign (Space)
that I was
> going to run, one of the characters built a scientist/engineer with IQ 16 and
> EM2, the result was that for 1 pt she could have a 14- (96%) in any
> science/engineering type skill (M/H). It was really rather sick....

In the group I game with, they changed the point values for EM from 30/60
to 50/100. It tends to reduce the instances, especially since it takes
more effort to make the EM pay off in terms of point effectiveness, thus
you only see it when it matches the character conception.

Vincent

Incanus

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Oct 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/3/96
to

Vincent <jfcr...@eazy.net> wrote:

> In the group I game with, they changed the point values for EM from 30/60
> to 50/100. It tends to reduce the instances, especially since it takes
> more effort to make the EM pay off in terms of point effectiveness, thus
> you only see it when it matches the character conception.

Now what? Maybe it would be a good idea to have different costs for
different campaigns, because the EM is not of same importance in each
universe. For instance, in high- or ultra-tech campaigns (as was already
mentioned in this thread) it is too easy to create a technical monster,
because those skills are both important and there is so many of them. On
the other hand, a typical low-tech setting, such as fantasy or even Ice
Age, lacks of numerous mental skills, and those rare sages would be
quite unable even to survive on their own, not to mention adventuring
around (wizards are another story, but EM works differently for them
anyway).

--
Incanus

inc...@bigfoot.com
http://jagor.srce.hr/~blopac/

Incanus

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Oct 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/3/96
to

Bill Seurer <seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com> wrote:

>
> Once my players needed to empty a place of water and one of them figured
> out he could cast small Shape Waters at no cost. He figured it would take
> 300 and some odd castings. Just to annoy me (I think) they decided as a
> group to try it.
>
> So I had them make the rolls. ALL of them. They rolled in shifts and
> kept track of successes and failures. And they made every single
> one! Not a single roll was over 15, and quite a few were 3's, 4's and
> 5's.
>
> When they were done they discussed what the value of a powerstone
> enchanted via an equivalent streak of rolls would be worth (ignoring
> trying to find a base gem big enough).

This is a *really* good one!

That reminds me of a group which was attacked by a group of some twenty
Orcs. Not a big trouble for them usually, but it was at the end of a
hard they, and all of the fighters were at some 2 or 3 HP, and the only
wizard in the group had only Shape Water memorized. (Yes, it was under
AD&D rules :( ).

And, while the Orcs approached, the wizard showed a good example of
quick thinking and cast the Shape Water above them. Oh didn't I mention
that it was in the middle of the winter in far North, and the
temperature was about -40 Fahrenheit? :))

Any other such good and funny experiences to share?

Bruce L Grubb

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Oct 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/3/96
to

In article <52tbhd$9...@newsops.execpc.com>, wab...@execpc.com (Earl A
Kwallek) wrote:

> In article <bgrubb-ya0231800...@news.nmsu.edu>,
> bgr...@acca.nmsu.edu says...
> >
> >Accually the problem has already been corrected with two now standard
rules:
> >
> >1) The new standard cost of ST.
> >
> >A ST +10 is 110 points, 60 pt more than the old method.
> >So a old style Fantasy Vampire is now 160 pts before any other modifications.
> >
> >2) Split ST.
> >
> >Use the No spell Fatigue Bonus limitation (-20%) on additional ST.
> >ST 0/+10 is now 88 pts, 38 pts more than the old method.
> >This makes the Fantasy Vampire worth 138 pts -and- he cannot use his
> additional
> >ST for any spells.
>
> Yep. and a bigger fix was never needed.
> Whoever came up with the 50 pts for x2 ST idea was hopefully taken out and
> shot! A bigger point crock was never seen.

I don't know about that. IMHO the Racial Innate spells option on CI 179 is
a contender. For example, the old style Fantasy Vampire powers done as
Racial innate spells costs 87 pts (15 +4*12 +24) while doing them as
Inherent Magic
cost 187 pts. Not only does the Racial innate option take 100 points less
to do the exact same thing Inherent Magic does but it makes the race
natural mages.

In a fantasy campaign this makes the Vampire insanely powerful as the
racial Magery would allow them to learn other spells as well as give them a
point bozanza.

> Incidentally, on a similar note, has anyone come up with a way of keeping
> Eidetic Memory under control? In a 200 pt cinematic campaign (Space) that I
> was going to run, one of the characters built a scientist/engineer with
> IQ 16 and EM2, the result was that for 1 pt she could have a 14- (96%) in
> any science/engineering type skill (M/H). It was really rather sick....

For a IQ 16 character spending 1 pt (EM1 is 2x, EM2 is 4x):

EM1 (worth 2 pts) MH = IQ-1 (15), MVH = IQ-2 (14)
EM2 (worth 4 pts) MH = IQ (16), MVH = IQ-1 (15)

So even with EM1 (30pt) your IQ 16 scientist/engineer would have a skill 15
(96%) on any M/H science/engineering type skill. With EM2 the skill level
goes up to 16 (98%)!

I would like to point out that despite this it is not as abusive as you think.
Physical training will eat up a lot of points and IIRC that is a
requirement of -all- astronauts. Maybe the scientist/engineer is -so- good
that finding teachers is impossible which doubles the point cost. That
effectively neutralizes the EM1 and redusing the EM2 to EM1 levels.

Kaemaril

unread,
Oct 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/4/96
to

And Lo, it came to pass that on Thu, 3 Oct 1996 21:44:31 +0200
inc...@bigfoot.com (Incanus) did sit down before the sacred keyboard
and did type thusly:

>And, while the Orcs approached, the wizard showed a good example of
>quick thinking and cast the Shape Water above them. Oh didn't I mention
>that it was in the middle of the winter in far North, and the
>temperature was about -40 Fahrenheit? :))
>
>Any other such good and funny experiences to share?
>

I don't know if I'd describe it as a complete laugh-fest, but since it
happened tonight it's fresh in my mind and I still find it humourous.

OK. Cyberpunk 2020 game. The three players are a family team of bounty
hunters. I'm Ellen Diaz, eldest of the three, big sister and walking
death machine. The other two, Jones and Mark, are playing the younger
brothers. Ellen is a crack martial-artist and crack shot. I shoot, the
bad guys die. Not a problem. Imagine, if you will, an overly
protective big sister crossed with Bruce Lee and an army marksman.

The situation is this. We're attending the Elvis Presley museum
exhibition, meeting our contact. The security guards won't let anyone
in wearing armour or carrying weapons, so we're completely unarmed and
unarmoured. Ellen is wearing a slinky black dress, the brothers are in
tuxedos. We've only just met our contact when a team of assasins sent
to terminate our contact with extreme prejudice bursts in, opening
fire with gyrojet pistols. The other guests hit the floor fast as
rockets scream over their heads.

Thinking instinctively, Ellen kicks down a locked door and dives for
cover, dragging the contact and the brothers with her. Bad choice.
It's a dead end, the office of the museum manager. Inside is a
terrified elderly security guard. He has a gun. Ellen grabs it.

The Assasins send a rocket into the room, narrowly avoiding the family
but sending the contact to hell in bite size pieces. Reacting before
the guy has a chance to fire again, Ellen steps into the doorway and
fires, rolling impressively high and blowing away baddy 1. Quickly
ducks back in. Meanwhile, Mark is searching the body of the contact
for any weapons he might be able to use. Another gyropistol shell
impacts the wall above Mark's head, and Ellen again calmly steps into
the doorway, blows baddy 2 to hell, and ducks back into cover.

Meanwhile, Mark hasn't found a gun, but has spotted the discarded
gyrojet pistol of baddy 1 about ten feet outside the office, and
decides to make a grab for it. Ellen rolls her eyes, and decides to
give covering fire as Mark skitters across to get the gun.

This is where Ellen, super-efficient death machine that makes the
Terminator look like an amateur, accidentally shoots her brother in
the leg. Hey, it was a genuinely rolled 1/fumble, OK?

Cursing, Ellen grabs Mark and pulls him back to the safety of the
office. (Unbeknownst to us, the third Assassin has seen what has
happened to his friends, and has legged it). Mark needs medical
attention, or claims he does. It's a flesh wound, but Mark is a bit of
a hypochondriac.

Unfortunately, Mark is the medtech but he's in too much pain to do
anything (allegedly). Jones (brother no 2) knows a little first-aid
(First Aid 1 - Mark begins to look worried). Rolling the die, a
curious look crosses Jones' face. A second fumble in quick succession.
Jones' pathetic attempt at first aid (Yeah, lets just YANK OUT that
bullet) has made things worse. A previously minor flesh wound has now
become a mortal wound. Mark begins to curse profusely.

Don't worry, says the GM. You're a tough guy with a save of 9. All you
have to do is make a death check. Just roll 9 or less on a d10 and
you're not dead.

Knowing my luck I'll roll a ****ing 10, Mark says. Mark, it seems, has
developed the gift of prophecy, for Lo! It is a 10.

Mark does not stop cursing for a good sixty seconds as the rest of us
laugh ourselves silly. Fortunately, there is a happy ending. Big
Sister Ellen has a trauma team card, and within minutes medical help
has arrived to bring back the very recently deceased brother. Thank
goodness for 21st century medicine.

The ironic thing about this is that my previous character was a
marksman with a big thing for REALLY big guns who had blown up the
ENTIRE party when trying to defuse the electronic timer on a bomb with
the aid of a semi-automatic rifle. Previously, psychotic that he was,
he had been continously trying to deliberately 'inadvertently' kill
Mark's previous character whenever they were on missions together.
Mark and I had a good time playing those encounters out.. 'What do you
mean, you accidentally threw a handgrenade into my room? Well, see, it
was like this....'.

Previous to killing the entire party with a bomb my character (last
word:'Oops!') had NEVER been able to do in Mark, and yet this evening
Mark had snuffed it entirely accidentally.

OK, entirely different stories, different characters - but we all saw
the humour.

Kaem...@magus.powernet.co.uk

One of these days I must remember to put something funny
and/or deeply meaningful here...

Earl A Kwallek

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Oct 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/4/96
to
>> Incidentally, on a similar note, has anyone come up with a way of keeping
>> Eidetic Memory under control? In a 200 pt cinematic campaign (Space) that I
>> was going to run, one of the characters built a scientist/engineer with
>> IQ 16 and EM2, the result was that for 1 pt she could have a 14- (96%) in
>> any science/engineering type skill (M/H). It was really rather sick....
>
>For a IQ 16 character spending 1 pt (EM1 is 2x, EM2 is 4x):
>
>EM1 (worth 2 pts) MH = IQ-1 (15), MVH = IQ-2 (14)
>EM2 (worth 4 pts) MH = IQ (16), MVH = IQ-1 (15)
>
>So even with EM1 (30pt) your IQ 16 scientist/engineer would have a skill 15
>(96%) on any M/H science/engineering type skill. With EM2 the skill level
>goes up to 16 (98%)!
>
>I would like to point out that despite this it is not as abusive as you think.
>Physical training will eat up a lot of points and IIRC that is a
>requirement of -all- astronauts. Maybe the scientist/engineer is -so- good
>that finding teachers is impossible which doubles the point cost. That
>effectively neutralizes the EM1 and redusing the EM2 to EM1 levels.

Okay, I admit I didn't have the books or the character sheet in front of me
and was working from memory. So it's even more disgusting than I thought....
The universe I was running in had only a minimal list of physical
requirements for space-ship personnell (No stat below racial norm, minimum
Military Basic (adapted from special ops), and necessary freefall/vacc suit)...
can you think of some other physical type skills that "Starfleet" would require
of military officers?

Reece Watkins

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Oct 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/4/96
to

On Fri, 04 Oct 1996 01:35:48 GMT, kaem...@magus.powernet.co.uk
(Kaemaril) wrote:

>And Lo, it came to pass that on Thu, 3 Oct 1996 21:44:31 +0200
>inc...@bigfoot.com (Incanus) did sit down before the sacred keyboard
>and did type thusly:
>
>>And, while the Orcs approached, the wizard showed a good example of
>>quick thinking and cast the Shape Water above them. Oh didn't I mention
>>that it was in the middle of the winter in far North, and the
>>temperature was about -40 Fahrenheit? :))
>>
>>Any other such good and funny experiences to share?
>>
>

This came to me second-hand, but I still get a kick out of it.

It happens that a party was wandering through your typical dungeon and
had just scarfed up some unidentified potions. One loudmouth picked
one at random at quaffed it, but felt no obvious effect. They go into
the next room where the GM tells them a Mummy jumps out at them.
Loudmouth, in disbelief at such a puny monster, exclaims "Mummy?!? Ha!
Bite my balls."

Of course, the potion was (no lie) Undead Control...

Reece Watkins

James Robbins

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Oct 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/4/96
to

On Thu, 3 Oct 1996 21:44:31 +0200, inc...@bigfoot.com (Incanus) wrote:

>Any other such good and funny experiences to share?

This happened in my group right before I joined. The team consisted of two
mage/cleric types, great with spells and lousy with combat (lots of
versatility, little depth). There were also two walking death machines with
swords and a thief-like gypsy. The characters need to break into a temple
and grab some mystical object. Somehow, the party decides to send the thief
scouting the roof while the mages go for a frontal assault. During this the
fighters will sneak around back and sortie the rear. Amazingly, the words
'frontal assault' and 'mages' appearing in the same sentence didn't
register with anyone.

So, the thief sneaks off and the fighters head around back, looking for the
back door. The mages wait a few minutes to let everyone get in position,
and then boldly stride through the front doors, confidence evident in every
step. They preceded to the main room and start casting deadly spells like
they were free. Of course, since they hadn't specialized in combat magic,
it cost fatigue every time they tried to hurt someone. But this shouldn't
matter since they only have to hold the assault for a few seconds until the
fighters come in from the rear.

At about this time the fighters have gotten to the back door and are
hearing the sounds of destruction from within the temple. The big burly
barbarian grabs the door and wrenches it open with ease. NOT! It seems that
the priests had the gall to lock their back door! Somehow this hadn't
occurred to either of them. Surprisingly, in their well rounded fighter
education, no one had taken the time to show them how to pick locks. They
found out the hard way that the default skill level for lock picking is
very low.

By this point the mages are realizing that something has gone wrong. Of
course, they're also staving off exhaustion by burning health for their
spells. Unfortunately it was a lot harder to back out while being attacked
than it was to stroll into the temple.

Salvation arrived in the form of the thief, who hadn't found any entrances
from the roof and happened upon the fighters staring at the door like it
was a personal affront to their honor. The thief quickly unlocked the door
and the fighters rushed inside to save the day, just as the mages were
passing out.

Seems like a good time to have tactics and the common sense advantage, huh?

Jim


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

James Robbins jero...@pobox.com
Arcturius Aleator SCA - Buckston-on-Eno, Windmaster's Hill, Atlantia

"If builders built buildings like programmers write programs, then the first
woodpecker to come along would destroy civilization."

Doug Dawson

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Oct 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/4/96
to

And Lo, it came to pass that on Thu, 3 Oct 1996 21:44:31 +0200
inc...@bigfoot.com (Incanus) did sit down before the sacred keyboard
and did type thusly:

: >Any other such good and funny experiences to share?

No gut-wrenching hilarity, but our Warhammer game has had a number of little
oddities lately...like the halfling who rountinely brass-knuckles Fimir to
death...which doesn't help the elf with a fear of halflings.

We had an odd image come up last night: the entire party is in a jail cell
with a dirt floor, awaiting execution. (It's in a module, and the party's
attempts to do things have led to the conclusion that we're simply going to
have to wait for the Deus Ex Module (aka the Unexpected Plot Twist, Huh?)
to fix things...except my smith-mage gets impatient.

Equipped with a spell that can turn things to steel, he shapes a key from the
dirt of the floor, but it fails. Next he shapes a crowbar, but even the
Rabid Dwarf with ridiculous strength can't do anything to the bars. So
next he shapes shovels for the entire party, and everyone begins to dig in
earnest (no, there weren't any guards watching us, apparently. Why do you
ask?)

After a little while, we've got a pretty deep hole, and a pretty big pile
of dirt. When the fight outside (which we have to win, thereby proving
ourselves Good Guys to the villagers) begins, I turn the piled dirt into
solid steel. "OK, just _try_ and get us. _We_ have an armored foxhole!"

Then there was the time the elf tried to figure out if we could trust the
local authorities. Looking over his possessions, he found out he had a potion
that gave the drinker renewed self-confidence, enhanced charisma, and so on,
but it only worked if the drinker was Good. "Um, here. Would you mind...
drinking a little of this?" This was a big part of how we ended up in jail
in the first place.

Robert Kelk

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Oct 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/4/96
to

Earl A Kwallek <wab...@execpc.com> wrote:
> <snip>

> The universe I was running in had only a minimal list of physical
> requirements for space-ship personnell (No stat below racial norm, minimum
> Military Basic (adapted from special ops), and necessary freefall/vacc suit)...
> can you think of some other physical type skills that "Starfleet" would require
> of military officers?

I've been running a GURPS Star Trek game for a while, and one of the
things I've done is to make up a list of skills that Starfleet Academy
teaches. (This was before the list in the "Mr. B"'s current GURPS Star
Trek supplement.) There are seven or eight physical skills listed,
depending on how you count them.

_Everybody_ is required to learn Karate, Beam Weapons: phaser, Vacc Suit,
Free Fall, and Swimming. (Some of those "brave new worlds" are terribly
wet!) Helm/Navigation/Flight Control officers also have to know
Piloting, often with more than one specialty. Security officers also
learn "another combat/weapon skill", Piloting (shuttlecraft) and some
specialty of the Driving skill.

Once I picked up Martial Arts, I allowed characters to replace the Karate
requirement with any martial arts style. Security officers have to be
"blue belts" or higher, while other characters may be as low as "yellow
belts". So far, there are four continuing characters in the game with
some style -- a PC has Jeet Kune Do, and there are NPCs with Hapkido,
Kickboxing and Force-Swordsmanship. (It was fun coming up with a
"Trekkie" force-sword -- I finally stole a design from anime [the Dirty
Pair's "Project Eden" movie] and fiddled with that enough to hide its
origins.) Merely being known to have the skills to fight their way past
most opposition has saved the crew's life at least twice ...

--
Robert Kelk ke...@pwgsc.gc.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------
Opinions in this posting do not necessarily reflect the official
position of the Government of Canada or its departments.

Bruce E. Lutz

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Oct 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/4/96
to

In article <1996100321...@a10-p16-zg.tel.hr>
inc...@bigfoot.com (Incanus) writes:

> Any other such good and funny experiences to share?

Well, I know of a case where a PC killed himself with a tourniquet.
He'd taken a middling severe head wound in a fight and staggered
away,
when it came to his attention (the GM mentioned it) that he was
bleeding. Having had a previous character die from loss of blood
due to a leg wound, and remembering that he should have put a
tourniquet on that time, he proceeded to apply a tourniquet. Someone
pointed out that the tourniquet should be placed between the wound
and the heart, so he put it around his neck. When told by the GM
(who was having trouble believing this) that he was having trouble
breathing, was getting dizzy, and seeing spots in front of his eyes
the player kept guessing that the symptoms were due to loss of blood,
and tightened the tourniquet. After about three rounds of this, the
GM gave up and gave him a new character sheet.

Then there was the time the same player's character was approaching a
large wall. He could see it was circular, and enclosed a large area.
He had to get to the other side of that area. The wall was stone,
rough
hewn, and ten feet high. He climbed to the top and discovered that
the
inside of the wall was polished smooth, and road ran along the inside
of
the wall and was sunk ten feet into the earth, and there were metal
spikes
on the top of the wall that curved inward and ended in a point. The
player
decided to climb down the inside of the wall and go straight across.
(I handed him a new character sheet at that point, but the GM decided
to
be kind.)
Laster, as the PC was being chased by the monster that lived inside
the wall
he came upon an elevator that would have taken him to safety. Before
using
it he decided to check for booby traps (with the monster some thirty
feet
behind him and charging). To do so he reached out with his sword and
flipped
the control lever on the pedastal in the middle of the elevator, then
watched
as it started to rise to see if anything happen. Belated, the PC
realized
that the elevator was leaving and the monster was only seconds away.
He missed
his grab, end of character.
The game group used to take bets on whether or not this player's
characters
would survive the session.


Bruce Lutz bl...@manticore.mv.com

Bruce L Grubb

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Oct 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/4/96
to

In article <5333pd$1...@newsops.execpc.com>, wab...@execpc.com (Earl A
Kwallek) wrote:

> In article <bgrubb-ya0231800...@news.nmsu.edu>,
> bgr...@acca.nmsu.edu says...
> >
> >> Incidentally, on a similar note, has anyone come up with a way of
keeping
> >> Eidetic Memory under control? In a 200 pt cinematic campaign (Space) that I
> >> was going to run, one of the characters built a scientist/engineer with
> >> IQ 16 and EM2, the result was that for 1 pt she could have a 14- (96%) in
> >> any science/engineering type skill (M/H). It was really rather sick....
> >
> >For a IQ 16 character spending 1 pt (EM1 is 2x, EM2 is 4x):
> >
> >EM1 (worth 2 pts) MH = IQ-1 (15), MVH = IQ-2 (14)
> >EM2 (worth 4 pts) MH = IQ (16), MVH = IQ-1 (15)
> >
> >So even with EM1 (30pt) your IQ 16 scientist/engineer would have a skill 15
> >(96%) on any M/H science/engineering type skill. With EM2 the skill level
> >goes up to 16 (98%)!
> >
> >I would like to point out that despite this it is not as abusive as you
> >think. Physical training will eat up a lot of points and IIRC that is a
> >requirement of -all- astronauts. Maybe the scientist/engineer is -so- good
> >that finding teachers is impossible which doubles the point cost. That
> >effectively neutralizes the EM1 and redusing the EM2 to EM1 levels.
>
> Okay, I admit I didn't have the books or the character sheet in front of me
> and was working from memory. So it's even more disgusting than I thought....

It keeps getting worse:

For a IQ 16 character with NO EM at all:
spending 1 pt MH = IQ-2 (14), MVH = IQ-3 (13).
spending 2 pt MH = IQ-1 (15), MVH = IQ-2 (14). [look familiar?]

So even without EM your IQ 16 scientist/engineer would have a skill 14
(90%) on any M/H science/engineering type skill.

> The universe I was running in had only a minimal list of physical
> requirements for space-ship personnell (No stat below racial norm, minimum
> Military Basic (adapted from special ops), and necessary freefall/vaccsuit)...
> can you think of some other physical type skills that "Starfleet" would
> require of military officers?

Here are some that I thought of:

Beam Weapons (PE)
Brawling [when the beam weapon cannot be used] (PE)
If you have several "Starfleets" (say Economic Combines)
then Jubo and Karate maybe required in place of brawling by Asian Combines.
Both skills are PH
Piloting (PA)
Free Fall (PA) and/or Inertialess Agility (PH)
Some other Combat/Weapon skills when both Beam weapons and Brawling are
not practical.

Note that the situation where ever the character is may "require" certain
skills that are not part of the "Starfleet" or the character's own culture
may require certain physcial skills above and beyond whatever "Starfleet"
wants.

Without knowing how cinematic your campaign is or its TL that is this is
the best I can do. There are a whole host of 'cinematic' space worlds out
there, ranging from Space 1889, though 1950's B movies, to Star
Wars/Babylon 5.

L. Drew Davis

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Oct 5, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/5/96
to

I have no thread-relevant comment, but I do have to
say that the thread title is the most interesting one I've seen
in the group thus far...

--
L. Drew Davis dr...@mindspring.com
You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment.


Brian Trotter

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Oct 5, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/5/96
to

wom...@sirius.com (Benson Fong) writes:

>In article <32555E...@pwgsc.gc.ca>, Robert Kelk <ke...@pwgsc.gc.ca> wrote:

>> I've been running a GURPS Star Trek game for a while, and one of the
>> things I've done is to make up a list of skills that Starfleet Academy
>> teaches. (This was before the list in the "Mr. B"'s current GURPS Star
>> Trek supplement.) There are seven or eight physical skills listed,
>> depending on how you count them.
>>
>> _Everybody_ is required to learn Karate, Beam Weapons: phaser, Vacc Suit,
>> Free Fall, and Swimming. (Some of those "brave new worlds" are terribly
>> wet!) Helm/Navigation/Flight Control officers also have to know
>> Piloting, often with more than one specialty. Security officers also
>> learn "another combat/weapon skill", Piloting (shuttlecraft) and some
>> specialty of the Driving skill.
>>

>Trivia: the behavior of various Star Trek folks suggests to me that
>free-fall training is actually not terribly common among spacers in
>the Star Trek universe. For example, in ST6, the Klingons on the
>disabled battlecruiser were all but helpless in zero-G, while the
>Starfleet personnel relied on magnetic boots. Also, in a DS9
>episode, Dr. Bashir joined a woman he was interested in for a little
>zero-G nookie (she spent most of her life in a null-G environment).
>It was quite clear that it was the first time Julian had experienced
>a zero-G environment. Perhaps in a world with reliable artificial
>gravity, freefall training has fallen by the wayside. Of course,
>that makes about as much sense as not teaching sailors to swim...

I'll agree with the Trek references. I just thought I'ld point
out that a great many sailors didn't know how to swim- it's what
made walking the plank such a punishment. Or at least, so I've
heard- knowing the usual meaning of the word military intelligence,
it wouldn't surprise me too much :)

--Brian Trotter
btro...@rastro.colorado.edu

Chris Anderson

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Oct 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/6/96
to

> Right now my quick fix for this kind of stuff, is to do character building in
> two steps:
>
> First build a 100 pt character - then add 100 pts of "Experience" to the
> character. It has the twin advantages of avoiding stat inflation (a severe
> problem in most cinematic games I've seen) and bypassing the 2xage limit on
> skills that isn't really appropiate for cinematic games anyways.
>
> Any other suggestions?

This is the best method I've come across and I use it regularly. However
I find the biggest abuse is not stats but skills. 80 cp in sword skill
makes for a pretty unbeatable fighter. I have run an ultra cinematic
fantasy game for several years with characters ranging from 600-1000
points (pretty silly). You can reasonably safely allow them free range
with advantages or stats but can't allow focused skill buying.

In fact this was the biggest problem with Supers games, the rules
lawyers quickly realise the most devastating character to play is the
super normal. On 500 pts you get the Punisher crossed with Reed Richards
and the game rapidly goes down hill.

Benson Fong

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Oct 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/6/96
to

Incanus

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Oct 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/6/96
to

Benson Fong <wom...@sirius.com> wrote:

> Trivia: the behavior of various Star Trek folks suggests to me that
> free-fall training is actually not terribly common among spacers in
> the Star Trek universe. For example, in ST6, the Klingons on the
> disabled battlecruiser were all but helpless in zero-G, while the
> Starfleet personnel relied on magnetic boots. Also, in a DS9
> episode, Dr. Bashir joined a woman he was interested in for a little
> zero-G nookie (she spent most of her life in a null-G environment).
> It was quite clear that it was the first time Julian had experienced
> a zero-G environment. Perhaps in a world with reliable artificial
> gravity, freefall training has fallen by the wayside. Of course,
> that makes about as much sense as not teaching sailors to swim...

Which was not so uncommon in ancient times. Even today many fishermen on
Croatian coast (and elsewhere as well; this I just know firsthand) can't
swim.

David Conner

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Oct 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/6/96
to

<bgrubb-ya0231800...@news.nmsu.edu> <52tbhd$9...@newsops.execpc.com> <bgrubb-ya0231800...@news.nmsu.edu> <5333pd$1...@newsops.execpc.com> <32555E...@pwgsc.gc.ca> <wombat-0610...@ppp084-sf2.sirius.com> <1996100600...@a7-p7-zg.tel.hr>
Organization: Clark Internet Services, Inc., Ellicott City, MD USA
Distribution: world

It was not at all uncommon for sailors not to know how to swim. I'd guess
that fewer than ten percent of sailors in the Royal Navy during the
Napoleonic Wars had the skill. Might actually be a lot lower than that.
I think the theory was (as much as anybody actually thought about it) that
if their ship was sinking, they'd rather die quickly than do a lot of
futile paddling around before dying....

S.D. Anderson

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Oct 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/6/96
to

In article <52ovh4$7...@nntp-1.io.com>, kr...@io.com (Dr Kromm)
wrote:

> First off, I should point out that GURPS FANTASY lists the
fantasy
> vampire as being worth 125 points -- see p. F123. This vampire
is
> pretty much in agreement with the rules presented in COMPENDIUM
I;
> a quick look reveals no real discrepancies (although there are
a
> few interpretation issues).

The latest version of GURPS: Fantasy anyway... Not everyone
has upgraded to the newest printing.

--
On soft Grey mornings widows cry, the wise men share a joke
I run to find divining signs to satisfy the hoax
The yellow jester does not play, but gently pulls the strings
and smiles as the puppets dance, in the court of the crimson king

S.D. Anderson

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Oct 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/6/96
to

Bruce Grubb wrote:

>Since the Enhanced Strength rule is supposed to effect -all-
characters
>Nightflick would change though I cannot remember how his
strength was set
>up.

Strictly according to Supers rules. His vampirish nature is
all "special effects".

Dave Burbidge

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96
to

inc...@bigfoot.com (Incanus) typed:

>Bill Seurer <seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com> wrote:
>>
>> Once my players needed to empty a place of water and one of them figured
>> out he could cast small Shape Waters at no cost. He figured it would take
>> 300 and some odd castings. Just to annoy me (I think) they decided as a
>> group to try it.
>>
>> So I had them make the rolls. ALL of them. They rolled in shifts and
>> kept track of successes and failures. And they made every single
>> one! Not a single roll was over 15, and quite a few were 3's, 4's and
>> 5's.
>>
>> When they were done they discussed what the value of a powerstone
>> enchanted via an equivalent streak of rolls would be worth (ignoring
>> trying to find a base gem big enough).

>This is a *really* good one!

>That reminds me of a group which was attacked by a group of some twenty
>Orcs. Not a big trouble for them usually, but it was at the end of a
>hard they, and all of the fighters were at some 2 or 3 HP, and the only
>wizard in the group had only Shape Water memorized. (Yes, it was under
>AD&D rules :( ).

>And, while the Orcs approached, the wizard showed a good example of


>quick thinking and cast the Shape Water above them. Oh didn't I mention
>that it was in the middle of the winter in far North, and the
>temperature was about -40 Fahrenheit? :))

>Any other such good and funny experiences to share?

I assume you know how much fun an ADnD Create Water spell is?

First level party, imprisoned by orcs in a pit (with several
peasents). Two orcs standing guard at the top of the only exit. My
Cleric cast Create Water just above them. Both orcs suddenly at bottom
of pit.... :)

Or for the Paranioa players...
We were doing a module that sent us back(?) to Cyber-punk. We had to
cross this busy highway (with cars trying to hit us). Suddenly, the GM
brings a truck onto the road (while I was trying to cross (me being
the grunt of the party)), so I threw a grenade at it. The grenade flew
in through an open window, landed on the driver's lap, and exploded
(producing a large cloud of poisonous gas). Truck rolls, and stops (on
it's side). Suddenly the cars had to start playing dodge instead of
me. Did I mention that I was the last to attempt to cross? :)

I do have another Paranioa one (who doesn't), but it'll take a lot of
bandwidth. I'll just comment that it resulted in a third force (Alpha
Complex v Commie Mutant Traitors v Robots (Yes, the robots attempted
to take over Alpha Complex - all thanks to me :)

Niki Dave!
Manjimup System Administrator

"This Murphy person has a lot to answer for!"

OK, so I work for CALM....
I am hired to look after computers, not to make public statements.
All of the above is my opinion.


The Raven

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96
to

In <DyrxD...@mv.mv.com> bl...@manticore.mv.com (Bruce E. Lutz)
writes:

>Well, I know of a case where a PC killed himself with a tourniquet.

>Then there was the time the same player's character was approaching a
>large wall. He discovered that the inside of the wall was polished
>smooth, and was sunk ten feet into the earth, and there were metal


>spikes on the top of the wall that curved inward and ended in a point.

>Laster, as the PC was being chased by the monster that lived inside
>the wall he came upon an elevator that would have taken him to safety.

>Before using it he decided to check for booby traps.

>The game group used to take bets on whether or not this player's
>characters


ROFL!!!!

~Steve-o

Simon Smith

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96
to

In message <1996100321...@a10-p16-zg.tel.hr> Incanus wrote:

> Bill Seurer <seu...@nordruth.rchland.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Once my players needed to empty a place of water and one of them figured
> > out he could cast small Shape Waters at no cost. He figured it would take
> > 300 and some odd castings. Just to annoy me (I think) they decided as a
> > group to try it.
> >
> > So I had them make the rolls. ALL of them. They rolled in shifts and
> > kept track of successes and failures. And they made every single
> > one! Not a single roll was over 15, and quite a few were 3's, 4's and
> > 5's.
> >
> > When they were done they discussed what the value of a powerstone
> > enchanted via an equivalent streak of rolls would be worth (ignoring
> > trying to find a base gem big enough).
>
> This is a *really* good one!
>
> That reminds me of a group which was attacked by a group of some twenty
> Orcs. Not a big trouble for them usually, but it was at the end of a
> hard they, and all of the fighters were at some 2 or 3 HP, and the only
> wizard in the group had only Shape Water memorized. (Yes, it was under
> AD&D rules :( ).
>
> And, while the Orcs approached, the wizard showed a good example of
> quick thinking and cast the Shape Water above them. Oh didn't I mention
> that it was in the middle of the winter in far North, and the
> temperature was about -40 Fahrenheit? :))
>
> Any other such good and funny experiences to share?


Fictional dialogue, but it gives you the idea of what happened during one of
our Star Wars games:


GM: ... At this point, the surviving goon decides he's had enough, and
he drops his blaster and surrenders.

WOOKIEE: He kneel.

GM: *He kneels*.

EWOK: I set blaster to stun, make him go sleep.

GM: Oh, do you know how to set a blaster to stun?

EWOK: Yes. Merwoof show me. Click snap this, then blaster stun. You hit
people with it, they not die, they go sleep. *SNAP*! *SNAP*! (She clicks
the stunsafe backwards and forwards a few times.) Okay. Is now set to
stun.

GM: Okay. Fine by me. You've set your blaster to stun.

EWOK: [*THUNK!* (Strikes hapless goon on the back of his head with the
butt of her blaster. Goon collapses unconscious.)] He sleep.


--
Simon Smith

THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK.

Daniel Arnold Hopping

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96
to

the group i game with has dome some stupid things in its time.
"no need plan, just kill wizard". the idiot went up to the front door of
a drow house (we were in the underdark) and told the wizard to come out
and fight. next thing we new, there were three wizards behind us hitting
us with lightning, and a copper draggon attacking us (it was illusional,
but did real damage).
On another night, while in ravenloft, someone did a connonball into a
whirlpool. we found him by locating his sword with magic, then started
to dig him up from the sand in the next room. we were attacked be sand
monsters while we dug. we dug up his familiar, a giant groundhog, 1 turn
after it suffocated. we then dug him up one turn after he sufficated.
(and he had a good con). he was reincarnated as a centar.
in middle earth (a different campaing) another idiot attacked an ice
dragon, which responded by attacking the party. the dragon gave us 12
chances to surrender. we got this 38th lv beast down to half its
hitpoints before it started trying to use lv 50 magic on us. (we were
all lv 5. this was the palentary quest module.) on the last chance to
surender, it told us to drop our weapons. Andy didnt, he attacked
instead. the dragon killed the party with area affect. the survivors
left without any magic or gold or weapons. that about ended that
campaing, as two pcs (me and the drow who posioned my last character in
this campaing for no reason) and the npc were the only ones left.

Henry Vogel

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96
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>In article <1996100321...@a10-p16-zg.tel.hr>
>inc...@bigfoot.com (Incanus) writes:

>> Any other such good and funny experiences to share?

This is the funniest adventuring story I think I've ever heard. Much
as I'd love to say I was present for this one, I wasn't...

A paladin had gotten separated from the rest of his group and found
himself skulking through the "backyard" of a huge mansion. The
mansion was thought to be a place of evil activity, which is the
closest thing to an excuse the paladin's player could have given for
happened next...

Paladin: Okay, I look towards the mansion. What do I see?

GM: The mansion is about a quarter of a mile away. The lawn is well
kept and the bushes well trimmed. There's a gazebo about 150 feet
away from you.

Paladin: I freeze. Can I tell if the gazebo has noticed me yet?

GM (trying not to laugh): No, it hasn't noticed you. It's a gazebo.

Paladin: Describe the gazebo.

GM: It's white, about 15 feet tall at the highest point. It's a
GAZEBO, Eric!

Paladin: Okay, has the gazebo moved any since I spotted it?

Other players bite their tongues to keep from lauging.

GM: No, it hasn't moved, Eric. It's a GAZEBO.

Paladin: I draw my sword -- any reaction from the gazebo?

GM: No Eric, the gazebo just sits there.

Paladin: I try to detect good or evil.

GM: You can't get a reading from the gazebo.

Paladin: Hm, might be some kind of spell... I draw my bow and notch
an arrow. Does the gazebo react?

GM: No, Eric, the gazebo just continues to sit there.

Paladin: Well, I can't take any chances. I fire my arrow at the
gazebo.

GM: Um, okay... Roll to hit.

Paladin: Ha, a 19! I hit THAC0 -6! Does that hit?

GM: Oh yes, easily. <snicker>

Paladin (rolling damage): I do, um, 7 points of damage! Did I kill
the gazebo?

GM: No, Eric, no you didn't.

Paladin: Damn! And that was a +1 arrow! Okay, I try to sneak away.

GM (unable to keep it up): It's too late, Eric! You've awakened the
sleeping gazebo! In three bounds it's upon you and gobbles you up!

At this point, of course, everyone but poor Eric fell out of their
chairs laughing

Henry


Andrius Tamulis

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96
to

In article <1996100600...@a7-p7-zg.tel.hr>,

Incanus <inc...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>Benson Fong <wom...@sirius.com> wrote:
>
>> Trivia: the behavior of various Star Trek folks suggests to me that
>> free-fall training is actually not terribly common among spacers...
(...)
>> ... freefall training has fallen by the wayside. Of course,

>> that makes about as much sense as not teaching sailors to swim...
>
>Which was not so uncommon in ancient times. Even today many fishermen on
>Croatian coast (and elsewhere as well; this I just know firsthand) can't
>swim.
>

But, to extend the analogy, that corresponds to not having vacc suit
skill, as opposed to not having zero-gee skill. My personal opinion,
back to the question at the top of the thread, that any space-borne
officer _should_ have zero-gee and vacc suit training. To return to the
analogy of sailors; do modern naval crews swim? I have heard that
previous navies did not; is this true? And which of these is the better
analogy for your game world?

But the scene with Dr. Bashir that was referred to ... that really drove
me nuts. Star Fleet Academy, and the guy had NEVER been in free-fall?

Andrius

The Raven

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96
to

In <53bjpp$9...@vulcan.netdepot.com> vog...@dstm.com (Henry Vogel)
writes:

>This is the funniest adventuring story I think I've ever heard. Much
>as I'd love to say I was present for this one, I wasn't...

>Paladin: Okay, I look towards the mansion. What do I see?


>
>GM: The mansion is about a quarter of a mile away. The lawn is well
>kept and the bushes well trimmed. There's a gazebo about 150 feet
>away from you.

>Paladin: I freeze. Can I tell if the gazebo has noticed me yet?


Now THAT'S funny!!

~Steve-o


Ennead

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96
to

Henry Vogel (vog...@dstm.com) wrote:

[the story of Eric and the Gazebo]

Just for your edification, there is a fellow named Richard Aronson
who holds the copyright on this anecdote and is rather anxious to impress
this fact on the role-playing community at large.

You'll probably hear from him yourself, of course. Just thought
I'd warn you in advance.

-- Sarah

Fred Wagener

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96
to

>Any other such good and funny experiences to share?

The best series of roleplaying exchanges I ever saw started when a GURPS
wizard (who had the OPH "Makes everyone's life more interesting with little
bits of entertaining magic") tried to lighten up the day of a fighter PC
who was walking into a store to buy the platemail of his dreams. Every
dime he owned was in a purse on his belt. "Haha," says the wizard, "I'll
amuse him by using Illusion Shell to make his purse look like a turnip." He
promptly rolls the dice and critically fails. Being an evil GM, I ruled
that he had really actually turned the pouch into a turnip, and didn't know
how to turn it back. All of the proceeds from seven or eight gaming
sessions gone to vegetable. The fighter was not amused. Over the next six
months of gaming, the "retaliation/counter-retaliation" cycle kept
escalating, including one stretch where mage had the fighter convinced that
the new sword he had found was a very powerful flame sword (more Illusion
Shell) and only let him find out it wasn't really magical when the fighter
was about to confront demon wolves which could only be hit by magical
weapons. When the campaign ended, the fighter had managed to pay a high
point NPC to cast an Illusion shell on the PC mage, triggered to go off on
a command word uttered by the fighter. It would have made the PC mage look
like he had a donkey head. The fighter was arranging for a formal dinner
to be held in honor of the PC mage when the campaign ended....

jru...@ix.netcom.com

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96
to

vog...@dstm.com (Henry Vogel) wrote:

>GM (unable to keep it up): It's too late, Eric! You've awakened the
>sleeping gazebo! In three bounds it's upon you and gobbles you up!

>At this point, of course, everyone but poor Eric fell out of their
>chairs laughing

>Henry

Now that was priceless....

I'll have a go:

Warhammer. The party consists of an elf (femail, snooty, and not very
nice), a human male (me in all my glory), and an NFP dwarf who owned
the wagon we were traveling in. So we're in the woods and along comes
this ogre. No problem - he's bored and feeling kind of friendly. Has
this big sack over his shoulder that occasionally wiggles.... Offers
to tag along.... The elf, of course, trys to discourage this but
can't quite bring herself to attack him singlehandedly - the human
says, "Oh, what the heck, let him come." Much crudeness, rudeness,
and aggravation ensues. The ogre gets hungry, reaches into his sack
and pulls out an unforturnate orc - bops him on the head and eats him.
The elf by this time is livid. A short while later.... The ogre
says, 'Hey, guys!" We look. He takes another orc out of the bag and
proceeds to ram his fist up the orcs, umm, nether regions, bob the
hand with the poor (expiring) orc up and down and says, "Look! I'm an
orc!"

After everyone quit laughing the elf quite righteously put the poor
ogre out of her misery....


Another:

Again Warhammer. The pary has just finished a frustrating encounter
with a bunch of Snotlings (for those unfamiliar with warhammer - very
nasty, very cowardly, and just plain disgusting). Snotlings normally
flee without a fight unless they have you massively outnumbered. Well
these don't flee - they attack. After fighting them off one of the
players queries the GM about their behavior and says, "Well, they had
a Snotling Human-Slayer leading them and so were not afraid."
Later.... The party approaches a fast running stream and needs to
cross. The GM says they will have to roll to make the horses go
through the water - they are afraid. Well one of players says, from
his position on the floor away from the gaming table, "Well, my horse
isn't afraid - he's an oat-slayer! And he bravely fords the stream."
Everybody fell apart. The GM was more than a little pissed.


And last:

Many years ago I introduced my then girlfriend (she was 17 at the
time...) to D&D. She started coming to a game that another friend of
mine was running. She rolled up a character, got the game explained
and settled down to play. At the time we used alot of miniatures to
keep track of what was happening. Most of miniatures belonged to
Chris (a former Methodist minister, older, looked like Santa Clause
after a stint with Weight Watchers). So my girlfriend is looking
through his miniatures picking one for her character. She comes
across a nymph or some such - picks it up says, "Oh, my God, this one
is naked!" (Did I tell you she had led a somewhat sheltered life and
was more than a little naive?) Chris leans over and with absolute
sincerity and seriousness says, "Nah, see here, she has some hair..."
The expression was priceless - so was the wave of red traveling from
her neck up. Everyone died laughing.....

Rusty


varda goldstein

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96
to

In <53bhfn$c...@moon.htc.honeywell.com> fwag...@src.honeywell.com (Fred

Wagener) writes:
>
>>Any other such good and funny experiences to share?
>
These are the things gamers talk about late into the night when
chatting about old campaigns... funny experiences.

This one was recent. I was in a LARP (Live Action Role Playing)
session of Vampire. I, of Clan Tremere, is outside as a raid on an
Assimite (sp) hold is taking place. Things go VERY wrong. My
bodyguard is unconcious (little did I know he was dead) and it would be
almost certain death if I went in after him. I saw an Assimite (played
by my friend Ian's girlfriend Becky). I asked the Storyteller (GM)
about how I dominate someone (This was my first time in a battle
situation).

Storyteller: You need to make eye contact with the target.

Me: Anyway I can?

Storyteller: Whatever works.


at this point I will point out we were in the Storytellers backyard.

At the near top of my lungs I shout out over the frey of resolving
melee and discussions...

Me: Hey B*TCH!!!!!

Everyone stopped and turned to stare at me. (I don't do this very
often).

Storyteller: (to Becky) you are being dominated!

Ed
TBF
O


varda goldstein

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96
to

In <53bhfn$c...@moon.htc.honeywell.com> fwag...@src.honeywell.com (Fred
Wagener) writes:
>
>>Any other such good and funny experiences to share?

Another one from the ole days of AD&D...

We were in an encampment when we were attacked by a Vampire and several
undead (tournament adventure at the San Diego Comic Con from 1987).

The paladin throws a bottle of holy water at the vampire. He rolls a
20.

GM: Roll again to verify crit.

Player:20 (we were all amazed)

GM rolls location...

The vampire was critically hit in the groin and DIED.

My friend Alvin said "And the dead shall never rise again."

five minutes later we were able to continue.


Another one... GURPS finally.

Again with my friend Alvin this time as the GM. LONG ago back when
were playing FIRST edition GURPS! It was a "Myth World" type setting
including the D-hopper and my friend Chris playing Peter Venkman
complete with proton pack. Not a very serious game but fun...

We had just defeated a lot of ninjas and my friend Brian's character
was hurt. Being the cleric I asked the GM if I could drain fatigue
from the unconcious ninja and use it as energy to heal Brian's wounded
leg. Alvin said "sure."

I said "If I fail we have a chicken."

I rolled... 18. roll on the chart of DOOM I did... 18 again...

I said "We have a chicken!"

Brian's character went around for a while in a make-shift wheel chair
with two crippled legs in a cast wielding his sword.

This is for professionals kids... don't try this at home! ;)

Ed
TBF
O


Archangel Beth

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96
to

Bruce L Grubb wrote:
[...]
>"Metal weapons pass through them without effect, but they take full
>damage from any weapon made of wood or other plant material. Magical
>attacks (and high-tech ray guns) affect them as normal."
><http://www.io.com/~arcangel/Roleplayers-Web-Pages/Roleplayer21/CyberVamps.html>

[...]
>I sould note that I am reading 'without effect' as meaning no knockback (+20%)
>Which makes Invulnerability to Non-Wooden Weapons as per CI 59 worth 90 pt
>if metal weapons are rare or as is more likely 120 pts if they are
>occasional.
>
>Please note that the Invulnerability to Non-Wooden Weapons solution also
>has a major flaw; it does not allow one to even hurt the Vampire with
>non-wood plant material.
>For example a bale of hay, a bamboo staff, and a rose garden -should- all
>have a chance of hurting a Vampire as per the description above but since
>none of them are made of wood the Vampire is unharmed.

I think I would cost that Invulnerablity not as "To Non-Wooden
Weapons," but as "Invulnerable to Non-Organic Weapons." I.e., they
are only protected from metal and rock (and maybe Ice, which is
an interesting concept...), but not from wood, paper-cuts,
thorns, or plastic.

I think the intended effect is fairly clear -- swords and
daggers go through a vamp (unless you're using vulnerablities
to Silver as well, to over-ride the rest of the invunerable),
but clubs and staffs deal damage.

I wouldn't treat it as Vampiric Invulnerablity with Vulnerablity:
Wood, myself... (Unless it's lots cheaper, of course, but since
I have the other concept, I might not do it then.)

[...]
> Thanks. Leaves me with the crossing water and related stuff to figure out.

Fantasy Folk, 1st ed., treated these as Compulsive Behaviors,
I believe. (Sometimes with Code of Honor-style phrasing,
IIRC.)


--emc...@nh.ultranet.com // arca...@io.com // emc...@jade.mv.net
GURPS characters, Roleplayers; Art: http://www.io.com/~arcangel/

Archangel Beth

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Oct 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM10/7/96